The Megyn Kelly Show - Jussie Smollett Attack Reenactment, How Stanford Employee’s Rape Allegations Became Lies, with the Fifth Column Hosts

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00:00:02.860 Someone is trying to frame us.

00:00:05.160 Until our names are cleared.

00:00:07.700 We're fugitives from interval.

00:00:09.480 Like Bonnie and Clyde with better snacks.

00:00:12.840 Espionage?

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00:00:16.540 Better.

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00:00:25.940 NCIS Tony and Ziva.

00:00:27.400 Now streaming on Paramount Plus.

00:00:30.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal

00:00:32.300 on a wool coat from Winner's,

00:00:33.920 I started wondering,

00:00:35.580 is every fabulous item I see from Winner's?

00:00:38.680 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans.

00:00:41.400 Are those from Winner's?

00:00:42.940 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings.

00:00:45.380 Did she pay full price?

00:00:46.740 Or that leather tote?

00:00:47.740 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:00:48.940 Or those knee-high boots?

00:00:50.380 That dress?

00:00:51.220 That jacket?

00:00:51.880 Those shoes?

00:00:52.900 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:00:55.400 Stop wondering.

00:00:57.160 Start winning.

00:00:58.080 Winners find fabulous for less.

00:01:00.840 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:02.660 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:01:12.240 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:13.880 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:15.360 It may be a Friday, but boy, do we have a ton of news to cover.

00:01:19.360 We're going to go in-depth on the incredible story

00:01:21.820 of how two alleged rapes at Stanford University

00:01:26.420 turned out to be nothing but lies.

00:01:29.920 Absolute hoaxes.

00:01:31.580 Why haven't you heard this in every corner of the media?

00:01:34.300 Why aren't you hearing more about it, right?

00:01:35.800 Why isn't the group at Stanford that's been protesting

00:01:38.800 that Stanford supports rapists

00:01:40.800 saying it's sorry for maligning its university

00:01:44.120 and the administrators?

00:01:45.160 We'll get to it.

00:01:45.760 And some top anti-racism activists

00:01:48.420 openly admitting businesses don't want them

00:01:52.560 and that they are growing more and more uncomfortable,

00:01:55.620 corporations are, with the messages

00:01:57.520 the Robin DiAngelo's of the world are selling.

00:02:00.400 We have it on tape, on camera, and we'll show it to you.

00:02:04.360 Joining me now, two of our three friends

00:02:06.400 from The Fifth Column Podcast,

00:02:08.660 which is available at wethefifth.substack.com.

00:02:12.520 Michael Moynihan and Matt Welsh are here.

00:02:14.440 Guys, welcome back to the show.

00:02:16.400 Thanks for having us.

00:02:17.860 Hi, Megan.

00:02:18.420 I'm very intrigued by your background

00:02:20.480 in the filing cabinet closet.

00:02:23.120 Yes, I'm live from Montana for the fifth day.

00:02:27.700 My kids have spring break,

00:02:29.260 so I decided to work for the first week

00:02:31.200 and then I'll be off next week for four of the days anyway.

00:02:34.080 But anyway, I'm in my bedroom.

00:02:36.020 I'm in my bedroom and we just shoved some bookcases back here

00:02:38.320 with some books and it looks pretty decent.

00:02:40.460 It's not bad.

00:02:41.080 It makes you look very learneded, I have to say,

00:02:43.040 rather than just having the closet there.

00:02:45.360 It was funny because I wanted it to be kind of pretty,

00:02:47.900 so I only pulled the white books.

00:02:49.740 But we tried it with a blue and a red,

00:02:52.100 but it was too distracting.

00:02:53.200 So we went for something more.

00:02:53.440 Lays off the hair.

00:02:55.060 Yeah, yeah.

00:02:55.920 By the way, the book's over my shoulder.

00:02:57.360 I haven't read a single one of them.

00:03:00.960 I confess I have read a lot of these,

00:03:02.580 but so has my husband, Doug.

00:03:03.540 It wasn't all me.

00:03:04.520 What happened to Camille?

00:03:05.500 Where is he?

00:03:05.980 He missed a couple of Fifth Column podcasts.

00:03:07.720 What's he doing?

00:03:10.420 He's got better things to do.

00:03:11.620 He tells us he's in Chile.

00:03:13.100 I don't know.

00:03:13.380 He's fomenting a revolution or something.

00:03:15.020 Who knows?

00:03:15.580 Every time you turn around,

00:03:16.620 the guy's at a conference.

00:03:17.940 You look at his Instagram feed

00:03:20.500 and there's like these really elaborate

00:03:23.120 mountaintop telescopes and hammer crews.

00:03:27.820 So we're in the don't ask, don't tell.

00:03:30.540 We literally have our idea.

00:03:31.720 Got it.

00:03:32.800 We'll find out when we get the call

00:03:34.520 asking for like a bailout

00:03:36.160 once the Chileans get their hands on him.

00:03:38.760 Okay.

00:03:39.280 So let's talk about campus craziness

00:03:41.420 because this really is insane.

00:03:43.860 This story out of Stanford is,

00:03:45.880 I've been dying to get to it

00:03:47.340 and you guys are the perfect guys

00:03:48.720 to talk to about it.

00:03:49.980 I know.

00:03:50.380 Exactly.

00:03:50.880 Stanford's had a rough month.

00:03:53.100 So let me take you back.

00:03:54.540 Okay.

00:03:55.020 This totally reminds me of the Duke case.

00:03:57.900 August, 2022.

00:03:59.540 So last August, right?

00:04:01.720 Alleged rape on the campus

00:04:04.060 of Stanford University.

00:04:05.840 The Stanford Daily,

00:04:06.920 their student newspaper,

00:04:07.960 reports that an unknown male perpetrator

00:04:10.820 raped an adult female at a parking lot

00:04:13.040 near Wilbur Hall on Tuesday evening,

00:04:16.660 according to a report made

00:04:17.760 to the Stanford University

00:04:18.900 Department of Public Safety.

00:04:20.460 The victim does not know the perpetrator,

00:04:22.440 but did report this to a mandatory reporter

00:04:24.360 that she told that she'd previously seen

00:04:27.220 this guy on campus.

00:04:28.600 The victim describes the perpetrator

00:04:30.120 as a six foot tall black man

00:04:32.620 with a thin build,

00:04:34.440 brown eyes,

00:04:35.120 and a faded beard.

00:04:36.460 The victim says she was physically restrained,

00:04:39.140 taken to a restroom

00:04:40.160 where she was raped,

00:04:41.940 according, again,

00:04:42.800 to this mandatory reporter.

00:04:44.280 I think she told a nurse

00:04:45.140 who then contacted campus security.

00:04:47.240 That's how it went.

00:04:48.160 And the woman knew

00:04:48.740 that she would contact campus security

00:04:50.260 and also knew that the police

00:04:51.480 would have to be called.

00:04:52.660 But the woman said

00:04:53.360 she did not want to speak personally

00:04:55.220 with law enforcement at this time.

00:04:58.240 All right.

00:04:58.880 Horrible.

00:04:59.540 She's been raped.

00:05:00.780 She was taken into a,

00:05:02.400 you know,

00:05:02.560 grabbed at a parking lot

00:05:03.720 and taken to a restroom.

00:05:05.000 Sounds terrible.

00:05:06.840 Already the students are outraged

00:05:08.500 on the on the campus of Stanford.

00:05:10.020 They blame the university.

00:05:11.180 You're not protecting us.

00:05:12.620 Stanford's not safe.

00:05:13.480 How dare you allow this

00:05:14.500 to happen to this woman?

00:05:16.300 But it's all very sketchy.

00:05:18.400 Flash forward just a couple of months,

00:05:20.160 August to September to October.

00:05:21.780 So it's two months later of 2022.

00:05:26.060 Another sexual assault,

00:05:27.920 a male perpetrator

00:05:28.660 sexually assaulted an adult woman

00:05:30.160 in the basement

00:05:31.360 of a university building

00:05:32.440 on Friday afternoon.

00:05:33.760 I'm back from the Stanford Daily quoting,

00:05:36.200 according to a report

00:05:36.940 made by a mandatory reporter,

00:05:39.220 meaning I think a nurse again,

00:05:40.980 who brought the allegation

00:05:41.940 to the Department of Public Safety

00:05:43.440 on campus.

00:05:44.860 The adult victim

00:05:45.500 told this mandatory reporter

00:05:46.680 she was in her office

00:05:47.720 when an adult male grabbed

00:05:49.780 and forced her to a basement.

00:05:51.780 Or he raped her.

00:05:53.540 The victim does not want to provide

00:05:54.860 a statement to law enforcement.

00:05:56.040 Now, as far as we can tell, guys,

00:05:57.860 said victim.

00:06:00.020 Well, let me put it this way.

00:06:01.560 The reports on said victim

00:06:03.060 did not make clear to the public

00:06:04.660 that it was the same woman.

00:06:07.480 It's the same woman.

00:06:09.160 And you tell me what the odds are

00:06:10.640 that the same woman

00:06:12.060 within the course of two months

00:06:13.920 gets randomly grabbed,

00:06:16.140 dragged to a second location

00:06:17.340 and raped on campus.

00:06:19.340 OK, and also doesn't want

00:06:20.760 to talk to cops.

00:06:21.860 This thing smelled

00:06:22.620 from the very start.

00:06:23.900 So either people fell down

00:06:25.460 in their reporting obligations

00:06:26.440 and covering it

00:06:27.260 or the people giving

00:06:28.540 the disclosures

00:06:29.300 fail to provide

00:06:30.580 necessary information

00:06:31.460 because the fact that

00:06:32.140 it was the same accuser

00:06:33.140 matters,

00:06:34.340 definitely matters.

00:06:36.600 Enter the outraged students.

00:06:39.260 They they're protesting

00:06:40.560 all over the campus.

00:06:41.680 They're outraged.

00:06:43.340 Campus Stanford loves rape.

00:06:45.880 Stanford University

00:06:46.500 is an accomplice to rape.

00:06:47.680 We deserve to feel safe.

00:06:49.720 So what does Stanford do?

00:06:51.280 They temporarily expand

00:06:52.920 the presence of security

00:06:54.720 on campus.

00:06:56.480 Are the students happy with that?

00:06:58.320 No, no, because cops

00:07:01.180 hate people of color

00:07:02.460 and cops make people feel unsafe.

00:07:05.140 So now they're pissed off

00:07:07.300 that Stanford started flooding

00:07:08.880 the field with more security presence.

00:07:10.540 And Stanford tries to appease

00:07:12.080 the lunatics by saying,

00:07:13.700 don't worry,

00:07:14.440 the security staff

00:07:16.040 have an understanding

00:07:17.040 of anti-bias protocols

00:07:18.880 and procedures.

00:07:20.780 So now you've got to worry

00:07:21.740 that your woke students

00:07:24.500 who are very worried about rape

00:07:25.980 are also worried about

00:07:27.500 whether the cops are racist

00:07:28.800 and they don't want to deal with it.

00:07:29.900 Who the hell is going to protect you

00:07:30.860 from the rapists

00:07:31.540 if it's not going to be the security?

00:07:33.140 All right.

00:07:33.400 Like we can't get enough

00:07:34.560 don't rape people training

00:07:36.280 out into the campus ether

00:07:38.720 in time to save everybody.

00:07:40.480 We might need some cops

00:07:41.480 to stop the actual crimes.

00:07:42.840 So that's where things stood

00:07:44.560 until, here we go,

00:07:48.260 flash forwarding to this week,

00:07:50.980 March 15th,

00:07:52.580 Santa Clara District Attorney.

00:07:54.280 We just did a long story

00:07:55.100 about Santa Clara

00:07:55.740 with David Zweig

00:07:56.620 and how this lunatic place

00:07:57.900 was spying on churchgoers,

00:08:00.080 infiltrating their prayer groups,

00:08:01.580 reporting on how

00:08:02.640 they were not wearing masks

00:08:04.300 and they were having

00:08:05.020 too many people at their church

00:08:06.060 even when they shouldn't have

00:08:06.780 during COVID.

00:08:07.660 This place is a lunatic fringe place

00:08:09.840 and it's where Stanford is

00:08:11.220 and it's sort of Palo Alto,

00:08:12.320 that area.

00:08:12.980 California.

00:08:14.540 DA announces charges

00:08:16.120 against Jennifer Grease,

00:08:18.620 G-R-I-E-S.

00:08:20.060 No pictures available

00:08:21.040 of this woman,

00:08:21.840 but I have to ask,

00:08:23.300 I do wonder.

00:08:24.700 She's 25 years old,

00:08:25.940 she worked for the university,

00:08:27.060 and she has accused

00:08:28.420 a black man

00:08:29.120 of raping her twice.

00:08:30.780 I can't help but wonder

00:08:32.160 if this woman were white,

00:08:33.980 whether they would have

00:08:34.600 found a way of releasing

00:08:35.860 her photograph to everybody.

00:08:37.380 A white woman

00:08:37.820 accusing a black man

00:08:38.700 with unfounded allegations

00:08:39.960 of double rape.

00:08:41.640 So where's the picture

00:08:42.520 of Jennifer Grease?

00:08:43.180 I'd love to see it

00:08:43.880 because they make all this stuff

00:08:45.620 about race,

00:08:46.360 but not this one.

00:08:47.080 Why?

00:08:47.640 Let's find out.

00:08:48.560 Let's know everything

00:08:49.220 there is to know

00:08:49.720 about Jennifer Grease,

00:08:50.600 who ought to be

00:08:51.580 thrown in prison

00:08:53.340 for years

00:08:54.100 for doing this.

00:08:55.120 She's being charged

00:08:57.520 with two felony counts

00:08:58.460 of perjury,

00:08:59.000 two misdemeanor counts

00:08:59.780 of knowingly inducing

00:09:00.560 another person

00:09:01.040 to give false testimony.

00:09:02.640 She is a Stanford

00:09:03.460 Housing Services employee.

00:09:06.060 She's an employee

00:09:06.580 of the building.

00:09:07.700 And let me go on.

00:09:09.420 This is not her first time

00:09:10.460 making up lies

00:09:11.280 about what appears

00:09:12.720 to be her male co-worker

00:09:14.100 who she was out to get.

00:09:16.040 Last March,

00:09:16.620 she made a sexual harassment

00:09:17.740 complaint against this guy.

00:09:19.260 They were found

00:09:19.700 to be unsubstantiated,

00:09:21.380 and she was moved

00:09:22.080 to a different work location,

00:09:23.420 but not fired.

00:09:24.040 She has a history

00:09:25.280 of lying separate and apart

00:09:26.440 from that allegation

00:09:27.700 about her relationship

00:09:29.140 with this man

00:09:29.660 who was unnamed

00:09:30.180 in the documents.

00:09:30.860 She told one co-worker

00:09:31.700 she was in a relationship

00:09:32.940 with him,

00:09:33.380 but that he had sexually

00:09:34.280 assaulted her.

00:09:35.300 This is another time.

00:09:36.560 All right.

00:09:36.760 Now, an alleged allegation

00:09:37.960 of sexual harassment,

00:09:39.560 which wasn't substantiated,

00:09:40.960 two allegations of rape,

00:09:42.220 which are false,

00:09:43.200 an allegation of sexual assault

00:09:44.580 separate from those

00:09:45.680 that left her pregnant

00:09:46.860 with his twins

00:09:47.660 before she suffered

00:09:48.460 a miscarriage.

00:09:49.500 Another lie disproved,

00:09:51.300 according to the authorities,

00:09:52.300 by medical records.

00:09:53.360 Then they find her text

00:09:54.920 to a friend,

00:09:55.640 quote,

00:09:56.680 Can't I just make his life

00:09:57.880 a living hell myself?

00:09:59.620 She texted her co-worker

00:10:00.860 about the alleged assault.

00:10:02.060 I need to start

00:10:02.680 standing up for myself.

00:10:03.580 I'm so annoyed.

00:10:04.680 I'm coming up with a plan.

00:10:06.080 That way,

00:10:06.640 he's shitting in his pants

00:10:07.740 for multiple days.

00:10:09.700 Eventually,

00:10:10.260 prosecutors got their hands

00:10:11.120 on her in January.

00:10:12.300 She admitted

00:10:12.920 it was all a lie

00:10:14.640 after Stanford

00:10:16.580 had spent $300,000

00:10:18.160 investigating her case.

00:10:20.340 Even though she never

00:10:21.200 named the co-worker

00:10:21.860 as her false attacker,

00:10:23.060 she refused to rule him out

00:10:24.180 when asked point blank,

00:10:24.940 and it was clear,

00:10:25.480 given her history,

00:10:26.120 who she was talking about.

00:10:27.940 By the way,

00:10:28.780 she also was awarded

00:10:30.020 public money

00:10:30.860 through the California

00:10:31.960 Victim of Crimes Board,

00:10:33.560 according to the filing.

00:10:34.800 They say she may have received

00:10:36.560 up to $70,000

00:10:38.360 for these false claims,

00:10:40.200 and now she has been placed

00:10:42.320 on a leave of absence,

00:10:44.460 but not yet fired,

00:10:46.280 though her employment

00:10:47.620 is under review.

00:10:49.960 The activists,

00:10:51.440 not satisfied.

00:10:52.840 What they have done

00:10:53.660 is taken to

00:10:55.020 the public square

00:10:56.040 to say,

00:10:57.100 this is from the

00:10:57.580 Sexual Violence

00:10:58.360 Free Stanford group,

00:11:00.000 we unequivocally reaffirm

00:11:01.420 that Stanford

00:11:02.060 neglects survivors.

00:11:04.020 40% of women

00:11:04.960 identified undergraduate

00:11:05.740 students at Stanford

00:11:06.620 will be sexually violated

00:11:07.860 during their term

00:11:08.640 on campus.

00:11:10.180 It's not true.

00:11:11.060 No, they won't, right?

00:11:12.420 This protest was not

00:11:13.220 for one survivor,

00:11:14.060 but for all survivors.

00:11:15.780 Sexual Violence

00:11:16.400 Free Stanford

00:11:16.880 reaffirms our opposition

00:11:18.160 to increased security

00:11:19.660 as well,

00:11:20.460 which does nothing

00:11:21.180 but put gender

00:11:21.920 and racially marginalized

00:11:22.780 students at risk

00:11:24.200 for harmful interactions.

00:11:25.600 These people are insane.

00:11:28.160 I'll let you guys take it.

00:11:28.840 The cult.

00:11:29.620 Yeah.

00:11:30.700 God, I mean,

00:11:31.280 where does one begin?

00:11:32.300 I mean,

00:11:32.560 you just told me

00:11:34.340 something I didn't know.

00:11:35.400 I've been reading

00:11:36.260 about this a little bit.

00:11:37.520 I didn't know

00:11:37.960 the accuser wasn't white

00:11:39.740 because that actually does...

00:11:41.760 I don't know that.

00:11:42.260 It's my speculation.

00:11:42.840 I don't know that either.

00:11:43.740 I believe if she were white,

00:11:45.460 we'd be seeing her picture.

00:11:47.260 Right.

00:11:47.720 I mean,

00:11:47.900 there'd be a lot of

00:11:48.400 Emmett Till comparisons.

00:11:49.780 We would have...

00:11:50.460 I mean,

00:11:50.780 the fact that I know

00:11:51.680 the name Mike Nifong

00:11:53.040 tells you a little something

00:11:54.600 about what happens

00:11:55.340 when the racial dynamics

00:11:56.360 are that kind of polarizing

00:11:57.660 and that sharp

00:11:58.160 because that was,

00:11:59.380 of course,

00:11:59.540 the Duke Lacrosse case.

00:12:01.280 You know,

00:12:01.440 you see these kids

00:12:02.420 that go out there

00:12:03.040 and they're kind of desperate.

00:12:04.660 They actually...

00:12:05.580 Unlike me,

00:12:06.220 I don't want these things

00:12:07.240 to be true.

00:12:08.160 I don't want these things

00:12:09.320 to happen.

00:12:10.300 But the second there's

00:12:11.220 an idea of it,

00:12:13.060 it's you're out on the campus

00:12:14.340 saying Stanford protects rapists.

00:12:17.040 Well,

00:12:17.260 let's not protect them.

00:12:18.540 Let's have some police

00:12:19.460 come in here.

00:12:20.160 Well,

00:12:20.240 we don't want the police.

00:12:21.040 Now,

00:12:21.200 what do you want

00:12:22.280 at this point?

00:12:23.480 What is the actual solution?

00:12:24.920 And of course,

00:12:25.780 there's a farrago

00:12:26.540 of bullshit statistics too.

00:12:28.620 And if you look at,

00:12:29.840 you know,

00:12:30.020 there's a number

00:12:30.460 of great books

00:12:31.260 about this

00:12:31.860 going all the way back

00:12:32.860 to the 90s

00:12:34.440 that have been going on

00:12:35.620 about these numbers

00:12:36.460 that are just false

00:12:37.400 that 40%,

00:12:38.580 50% of kids

00:12:40.000 on campus

00:12:41.020 will get raped.

00:12:42.280 And by the way,

00:12:43.220 how this happens

00:12:44.060 is they allow people

00:12:45.680 to themselves identify

00:12:47.360 what is uncomfortable

00:12:48.960 and then they recategorize it

00:12:50.720 as sexual assault.

00:12:53.360 You know,

00:12:53.700 it is really strange

00:12:55.400 because if you have,

00:12:56.100 there was a documentary,

00:12:58.280 I think CNN Films,

00:12:59.740 I shouldn't say dope quote me

00:13:00.860 because I'm on the radio now,

00:13:02.200 but I think it was CNN Films

00:13:03.300 that came up with a film

00:13:03.880 called The Hunting Ground.

00:13:05.440 Do you remember this?

00:13:06.460 And it was about on campus.

00:13:08.620 It was about rapes on campus.

00:13:10.180 Now imagine

00:13:10.760 just the very premise of this.

00:13:12.360 You're starting with kids,

00:13:13.920 people sending their kids

00:13:15.040 to school

00:13:15.640 and they're saying

00:13:16.320 they're going to a hunting ground.

00:13:18.140 That's what it's like there.

00:13:19.600 And there was a woman

00:13:20.920 named Emily Yoffe,

00:13:21.760 fantastic journalist at Slate

00:13:23.140 who actually looked

00:13:23.760 at all the cases here

00:13:24.600 and said almost everyone

00:13:26.780 was either not clear

00:13:28.580 or might have been BS.

00:13:30.380 And the one thing

00:13:30.980 that I noticed

00:13:31.480 about all of these stories

00:13:33.500 about it,

00:13:33.980 there was one on NBC,

00:13:34.640 that in the first

00:13:36.680 two or three paragraphs,

00:13:37.580 they do the throat clearing

00:13:38.940 and say,

00:13:39.320 this almost never happens.

00:13:40.980 False claims

00:13:41.600 almost never happen.

00:13:43.060 Well, that's,

00:13:44.100 the numbers on this

00:13:45.260 are also incredible too.

00:13:46.460 But let me give you

00:13:47.200 one little data point

00:13:48.060 about this.

00:13:48.640 Just a personal data point

00:13:49.800 from the past couple of days.

00:13:50.920 Within the past two days,

00:13:52.520 I have seen three stories,

00:13:54.360 three stories in the media

00:13:56.040 about people being arrested

00:13:58.200 for making false claims of rape.

00:14:00.500 One very, very big case

00:14:01.920 in England.

00:14:02.540 And the guy,

00:14:03.000 one of the guys

00:14:03.340 that was accused said,

00:14:04.180 the activist refused

00:14:05.640 to believe that I'm innocent.

00:14:07.000 They're still harassing me

00:14:08.240 despite the fact

00:14:08.820 the police have said this.

00:14:09.780 A woman in Tampa

00:14:11.300 who said she was tied up.

00:14:14.020 And then of course,

00:14:14.780 they found a video

00:14:15.400 of her buying the rope

00:14:16.420 at Walgreens,

00:14:18.240 at Walmart.

00:14:19.060 And this was just yesterday.

00:14:20.500 She's being prosecuted.

00:14:21.660 Then this woman in Sanford.

00:14:22.960 To say that this stuff

00:14:23.880 never happens,

00:14:24.980 well, is it rare?

00:14:26.300 Who knows?

00:14:27.020 Probably.

00:14:28.100 But when you empower people

00:14:30.060 and say that

00:14:30.780 if you don't talk to the police,

00:14:32.460 we understand why.

00:14:33.820 If you don't want to report this

00:14:34.900 to the police,

00:14:35.420 we understand the trauma,

00:14:36.620 we understand why.

00:14:37.820 And if you empower people

00:14:38.920 that all of the belief

00:14:40.400 will be on your side

00:14:41.500 and the ultimate result

00:14:43.080 is that the person

00:14:43.720 that you don't like

00:14:44.400 or the person

00:14:45.060 that you're trying to persecute

00:14:46.420 will just be ruined

00:14:47.880 out of the gate.

00:14:50.100 You don't have to prove anything.

00:14:51.360 We have to disprove it.

00:14:53.000 And then when the damage is done,

00:14:54.640 you know, sorry.

00:14:55.400 And, you know,

00:14:56.460 the administration

00:14:56.900 won't even fire her.

00:14:58.120 The kids who went out there

00:14:59.380 and protested won't say,

00:15:00.860 yeah, maybe a little more skepticism

00:15:02.420 next time.

00:15:03.160 No, no, no.

00:15:03.540 It's the narrative

00:15:04.480 that demands the response.

00:15:07.420 It's not the truth.

00:15:08.440 The narrative is what

00:15:09.280 people are interested in.

00:15:11.100 One of the lessons from...

00:15:12.700 That's exactly right.

00:15:12.720 And that, well,

00:15:13.020 just to give you

00:15:14.120 one other detail,

00:15:15.160 the university,

00:15:15.820 rather than saying

00:15:16.640 some caution may be in order,

00:15:18.640 you know,

00:15:18.940 we're still investigating,

00:15:20.820 instead of doing that,

00:15:21.720 they put out a statement

00:15:22.560 to explain why

00:15:24.200 these reports were so vague

00:15:26.380 and she wasn't talking

00:15:27.700 to the cops.

00:15:28.840 And their statement

00:15:29.720 notably did not list

00:15:30.960 she might be a liar.

00:15:33.640 Did you notice my edit there?

00:15:35.160 Lent,

00:15:35.500 I edited out my F-bomb mom.

00:15:38.360 Here's what they said.

00:15:39.760 There are a variety of reasons

00:15:40.680 why a victim may not disclose

00:15:41.720 information about a crime.

00:15:42.940 Many victims need time

00:15:43.780 to process what occurred.

00:15:45.000 For some,

00:15:45.360 the trauma of a crime

00:15:46.260 impacts their ability

00:15:47.080 to recall information.

00:15:48.400 Currently,

00:15:48.820 the victim,

00:15:49.220 okay,

00:15:50.300 alleged?

00:15:50.920 How about alleged?

00:15:52.100 The victim,

00:15:53.220 who reported being assaulted yesterday,

00:15:54.820 has chosen not to share information

00:15:56.140 about the crime

00:15:56.580 with the police at this time.

00:15:57.960 This also remains the case

00:15:59.020 for the August report,

00:16:00.820 which remains under investigation.

00:16:02.560 Again,

00:16:03.000 not disclosing,

00:16:04.040 it's the same woman.

00:16:05.120 It's the same person.

00:16:05.940 Right?

00:16:06.820 Like,

00:16:07.580 no one's flagging,

00:16:09.060 this woman may be a damn liar.

00:16:10.980 Go ahead, Matt.

00:16:11.660 Yeah.

00:16:14.000 I mean,

00:16:14.860 if there's a victim here,

00:16:16.920 it's whoever's accused

00:16:17.860 of being a rapist.

00:16:20.380 This poor guy

00:16:21.280 had like a stalker.

00:16:22.360 He had like a Glenn Close situation

00:16:23.840 going on in his life.

00:16:25.380 And his life could have been ruined.

00:16:26.680 That doesn't sound very fun.

00:16:27.480 Minus the awesome,

00:16:28.680 like,

00:16:29.040 80s sex,

00:16:29.900 too.

00:16:30.560 So,

00:16:31.260 perhaps the most tragic thing.

00:16:34.320 No,

00:16:35.040 a thing that,

00:16:35.760 that the field of,

00:16:37.680 the academic field

00:16:38.540 of economics,

00:16:40.260 which Stanford used to be

00:16:41.260 really good at,

00:16:42.100 as well as a bunch of other things,

00:16:43.580 who was,

00:16:44.240 once great university there

00:16:45.540 in California,

00:16:46.440 but what economics

00:16:47.940 teaches us

00:16:48.680 is not just about

00:16:49.780 like fiscal policy.

00:16:50.880 It teaches us

00:16:51.960 that everywhere in life,

00:16:53.520 people respond

00:16:54.680 to incentives.

00:16:56.700 And,

00:16:57.000 and also they respond

00:16:58.240 to the removal

00:16:58.880 of incentives,

00:17:00.120 the removal

00:17:00.600 of,

00:17:01.600 of certain guardrails

00:17:03.120 on the way that we behave

00:17:04.300 and walk through life.

00:17:05.280 And so,

00:17:06.180 what has happened

00:17:07.120 serially

00:17:08.500 on college campuses,

00:17:10.000 especially

00:17:10.300 since the Obama administration,

00:17:12.940 well,

00:17:13.340 they made it easier.

00:17:14.780 They changed

00:17:15.380 the incentive structure

00:17:16.280 for people

00:17:16.760 to make accusations

00:17:17.640 about sexual assault,

00:17:19.900 where,

00:17:20.980 and they also removed

00:17:22.300 the ability

00:17:22.960 back then

00:17:24.200 of people

00:17:25.000 who were accused

00:17:25.800 in these cases

00:17:27.000 to be able

00:17:28.380 to face

00:17:29.080 their accuser

00:17:30.620 or even the evidence,

00:17:31.360 to refute the evidence

00:17:32.140 that was subjected

00:17:33.420 to them.

00:17:34.000 So,

00:17:34.260 they rewrote

00:17:35.120 Title IX,

00:17:36.080 basically,

00:17:36.920 back then

00:17:37.700 to do that.

00:17:38.220 That was then

00:17:38.620 reversed under Trump

00:17:39.440 and Betsy DeVos,

00:17:40.340 and now the Biden

00:17:41.040 administration

00:17:41.380 is going the other way.

00:17:42.240 But if you remove

00:17:43.400 the incentive

00:17:43.980 that there might

00:17:45.680 be punishment

00:17:46.280 to lying,

00:17:47.920 and you also

00:17:48.540 simultaneously,

00:17:49.640 and not all incentives

00:17:50.300 are like laws

00:17:51.300 and punishments,

00:17:52.920 some incentives

00:17:53.580 are given socially.

00:17:55.620 If you increase

00:17:56.520 the incentive,

00:17:57.400 you increase

00:17:57.940 the reward structure

00:17:58.940 for declaring

00:18:00.740 yourself a victim,

00:18:02.100 then what are

00:18:03.200 people going to do?

00:18:04.260 You're going to see

00:18:05.040 more of this.

00:18:06.060 Yes,

00:18:06.340 it is rare

00:18:06.960 for this to be prosecuted,

00:18:08.840 for people to be

00:18:09.620 prosecuted for perjury,

00:18:10.800 and when you first

00:18:11.600 sent us the story,

00:18:12.320 I was like,

00:18:12.620 okay,

00:18:13.000 that is,

00:18:13.880 this is strange,

00:18:15.160 is the tide turning

00:18:16.220 on these types of things?

00:18:17.560 But no,

00:18:18.100 because you look at

00:18:18.960 the history,

00:18:19.820 she lied so much.

00:18:21.620 There has to be

00:18:22.780 such a track record

00:18:23.760 of crazy lying

00:18:25.180 to get to the point

00:18:25.960 where this stuff

00:18:26.460 is prosecuted.

00:18:28.100 That's why she

00:18:29.140 finds herself

00:18:29.880 in the crosshairs,

00:18:30.920 but we have changed

00:18:32.480 the incentive structure

00:18:33.380 in such a way

00:18:34.500 where this is

00:18:35.780 inevitable

00:18:36.720 to have more

00:18:37.740 of these things.

00:18:39.180 And I wasn't

00:18:40.320 kidding being flip

00:18:41.440 about the victim thing.

00:18:43.580 Talking about

00:18:44.300 Emily Off

00:18:44.960 and other people

00:18:45.640 who've reported

00:18:46.560 on campus sexual assault,

00:18:48.180 Kathy Young as well.

00:18:49.840 There's been a lot

00:18:50.540 of people,

00:18:51.260 predominantly

00:18:51.880 immigrant men

00:18:53.480 of color,

00:18:54.580 who have suffered

00:18:55.720 horrible consequences

00:18:57.020 for things

00:18:58.380 that they likely

00:18:59.360 didn't do,

00:18:59.900 at least not as described.

00:19:00.940 They got kicked

00:19:01.380 out of their schools

00:19:02.100 because of these

00:19:03.620 kind of kangaroo courts

00:19:04.840 that were allowed

00:19:05.780 to be convened

00:19:06.740 after these rules

00:19:07.760 were changed.

00:19:08.660 That's a problem.

00:19:09.420 If we care about

00:19:10.280 individual due process

00:19:11.300 and rights,

00:19:11.740 and that includes,

00:19:12.440 of course,

00:19:13.300 people who are

00:19:14.140 sexually assaulted

00:19:14.920 themselves

00:19:15.560 and who do,

00:19:17.440 might have

00:19:18.240 a lot of reticence

00:19:19.840 to report it

00:19:20.800 and they're suffering

00:19:21.720 from trauma,

00:19:22.520 but all of that

00:19:23.340 requires due process.

00:19:24.580 It doesn't require,

00:19:25.960 and it should not tolerate,

00:19:27.520 and it should not be

00:19:28.240 excused by activists

00:19:29.480 or anybody else

00:19:30.240 or the campus itself,

00:19:31.720 people who are being

00:19:33.400 so flippant

00:19:34.120 with the accusations.

00:19:35.260 Those people

00:19:35.940 are the ones

00:19:36.480 who are cheapening

00:19:37.400 everything

00:19:38.140 and making it

00:19:39.080 more possible

00:19:39.780 for malfeasance

00:19:40.660 to happen.

00:19:42.160 The bloodthirsty mob

00:19:43.660 doesn't care about facts.

00:19:45.440 You guys are right.

00:19:46.080 They care about the narrative.

00:19:47.540 And what's especially galling

00:19:48.900 is that on a lot

00:19:49.860 of these campuses,

00:19:50.520 this involved

00:19:51.180 a university employee,

00:19:52.640 but usually it's a student

00:19:54.120 making an allegation

00:19:55.180 against a fellow student.

00:19:56.620 What's really galling

00:19:57.440 is that on a lot

00:19:58.180 of these campuses,

00:19:59.240 they choose

00:19:59.900 your kangaroo court judges

00:20:01.620 for, you know,

00:20:02.780 to litigate your

00:20:03.820 allegation of sexual assault

00:20:05.080 from the victim

00:20:06.700 representative groups,

00:20:07.800 like from this

00:20:08.820 sexual violence

00:20:10.220 free Stanford.

00:20:11.420 That happens

00:20:12.180 on campus after campus

00:20:13.080 where they find

00:20:13.640 the judge, jury,

00:20:14.500 and executioners

00:20:15.240 from a group like that.

00:20:16.640 So how's a young man

00:20:18.520 going to fare

00:20:19.220 in front of these lunatics

00:20:20.740 who don't care?

00:20:22.820 They're still outraged

00:20:24.260 that anything

00:20:25.520 has ever happened

00:20:26.280 on a campus like Stanford,

00:20:27.280 not about what

00:20:28.500 this woman did,

00:20:29.840 how she almost

00:20:30.260 ruined a man's life,

00:20:31.760 but how she undermined

00:20:32.940 legitimate claims of rape.

00:20:34.340 And so the whole system

00:20:35.700 is set up

00:20:36.280 to evade due process

00:20:38.360 and just to get scalps.

00:20:40.120 That's what they want.

00:20:41.560 I mean,

00:20:41.700 to complain about this too

00:20:42.860 is typically

00:20:44.000 to get the response,

00:20:46.020 you can't make an omelet

00:20:47.440 without breaking a few eggs.

00:20:48.900 It's that, you know,

00:20:49.520 so what?

00:20:49.920 There's going to be

00:20:50.420 some people

00:20:50.920 that are going to be

00:20:52.220 unfairly treated.

00:20:52.980 But keep in mind

00:20:53.820 in these tribunals,

00:20:55.760 typically you're not allowed

00:20:57.140 to confront your accuser.

00:20:58.800 It's a, you know,

00:20:59.780 it's about a 50,

00:21:00.440 it's a 51%,

00:21:01.480 you know,

00:21:02.380 51% of people say,

00:21:05.580 you know,

00:21:05.720 it's not 100%.

00:21:06.420 You need to have a full jury

00:21:07.320 that agrees on this.

00:21:08.640 And what happens

00:21:09.160 to your life then

00:21:09.920 is anybody's guess.

00:21:11.300 Usually it's,

00:21:11.880 it's totally ruined.

00:21:13.420 And, you know,

00:21:13.800 the problem is,

00:21:14.580 again,

00:21:14.780 you're labeled a sex offender

00:21:15.900 and you almost never

00:21:16.820 prevail on appeal.

00:21:17.740 You can bring it

00:21:18.260 into federal court,

00:21:19.320 but they,

00:21:19.960 even if you win

00:21:20.460 in federal court,

00:21:21.080 universities don't

00:21:21.880 reverse themselves.

00:21:22.940 Sorry.

00:21:23.160 Yeah, there's,

00:21:24.040 in the kangaroo court,

00:21:25.080 there's no appeal too.

00:21:26.100 I mean,

00:21:26.260 you're on the universities.

00:21:27.340 These are not being

00:21:27.940 adjudicated by actual courts.

00:21:30.060 And they interject

00:21:31.740 sometimes in these cases,

00:21:33.880 which have been

00:21:34.840 documented very well,

00:21:36.160 these cases have been

00:21:37.260 cleared by cops.

00:21:39.340 They've been investigated

00:21:40.020 and found,

00:21:41.140 not just like,

00:21:41.780 oh,

00:21:41.860 there's not enough evidence.

00:21:42.780 No,

00:21:43.080 this didn't happen.

00:21:44.260 And yet they were still

00:21:44.980 adjudicated in such a way

00:21:46.240 on campus,

00:21:47.540 regardless of those findings.

00:21:48.700 And that's,

00:21:49.160 that's the phrase

00:21:49.860 that I was looking for,

00:21:50.560 preponderance of evidence,

00:21:51.860 which is,

00:21:52.200 you know,

00:21:52.300 51%.

00:21:53.000 But,

00:21:54.360 you know,

00:21:54.620 the problem with this

00:21:55.520 is that from people

00:21:56.280 in our perspective

00:21:57.020 and people in our business

00:21:58.120 of journalism is that

00:21:59.740 this is a binary thing

00:22:00.980 to people.

00:22:01.720 You either,

00:22:02.340 you know,

00:22:02.660 believe the victim

00:22:03.460 or you're some sort

00:22:04.320 of hate-filled monster

00:22:05.840 who wants to question

00:22:06.940 their story.

00:22:08.280 But the issue is,

00:22:09.540 is that,

00:22:09.880 you know,

00:22:10.060 a long time ago,

00:22:11.140 2014,

00:22:12.300 I think,

00:22:12.660 I wrote a piece

00:22:13.260 for the Daily Beast

00:22:13.920 and I went and I did a,

00:22:15.280 I think,

00:22:15.920 Jake Tapper show about this

00:22:17.060 and I might have mentioned

00:22:17.780 this here and here before

00:22:18.520 about the Sabrina Ergley story

00:22:20.940 in Rolling Stone

00:22:22.220 about the UVA rape case,

00:22:23.820 which was,

00:22:24.960 you know,

00:22:25.320 really just overwhelmed

00:22:26.700 the media

00:22:27.260 and I was the person

00:22:28.900 at the very beginning

00:22:29.880 who said,

00:22:30.300 I don't believe this

00:22:31.580 and that was a very

00:22:33.100 uncomfortable position

00:22:33.840 to be in.

00:22:34.640 And what you do

00:22:35.320 as a journalist

00:22:35.820 is you look at the evidence,

00:22:37.120 how it's presented to you

00:22:38.100 in a story

00:22:38.660 and you say,

00:22:39.740 like,

00:22:39.900 I can't tell,

00:22:40.800 I don't know,

00:22:41.180 but I have to go

00:22:41.940 on a sort of smell test.

00:22:43.380 If someone brings me

00:22:44.200 a piece as an editor,

00:22:45.340 I have to say,

00:22:46.120 like,

00:22:46.220 I don't know if this is true.

00:22:47.580 You need to back this up

00:22:49.040 a little more.

00:22:49.740 To say this in a case

00:22:50.660 like this

00:22:51.400 is considered

00:22:52.680 sort of a hate crime

00:22:53.840 because in the Rolling Stone case,

00:22:55.460 there was one little detail,

00:22:56.800 that somebody threw

00:22:57.660 a bottle at her.

00:22:58.920 They were harassing her

00:22:59.860 outside of a bar

00:23:00.480 and it sort of windmilled

00:23:02.400 across the street

00:23:03.560 and shattered on her head.

00:23:05.740 And I said,

00:23:06.380 that doesn't happen.

00:23:07.240 That's not how this works.

00:23:08.260 I'm not a physicist,

00:23:09.340 but this does not happen.

00:23:10.620 First thing,

00:23:11.400 but to say that

00:23:12.300 at this point,

00:23:13.340 and to your point,

00:23:14.140 Megan,

00:23:14.580 when you find out,

00:23:15.720 that's why I don't tell you,

00:23:16.400 when they find out

00:23:16.860 the person is saying,

00:23:17.980 I've been dragged

00:23:19.000 into various closets

00:23:20.100 over two weeks

00:23:20.960 and the same things

00:23:22.060 happen to me,

00:23:22.820 that's when

00:23:23.940 the smell test

00:23:24.860 is like,

00:23:25.300 oh,

00:23:25.640 but even if that were public,

00:23:28.040 I would caution people.

00:23:31.000 I mean,

00:23:31.340 you have to do it

00:23:32.100 as a journalist,

00:23:32.560 but I would prepare people

00:23:34.100 for the backlash

00:23:34.720 of saying,

00:23:36.120 well,

00:23:37.040 I don't know.

00:23:37.980 You can say that

00:23:38.480 about murderers,

00:23:39.820 people accused of murder.

00:23:41.160 You can say that

00:23:41.820 about people accused

00:23:42.880 or presenting

00:23:44.140 some other crime.

00:23:45.740 When it comes

00:23:46.500 to sexual assault,

00:23:47.780 we are supposed to,

00:23:48.700 as journalists,

00:23:49.500 just say,

00:23:49.880 we believe,

00:23:50.500 and remember

00:23:50.820 the Washington Post

00:23:51.480 had this headline

00:23:53.180 about believing women

00:23:55.000 and they ultimately changed

00:23:56.440 and said,

00:23:56.720 one must believe them.

00:23:58.220 And that is a very,

00:23:59.640 very odd formulation,

00:24:01.240 isn't it?

00:24:01.720 One must believe

00:24:02.540 50% of the population

00:24:03.980 in particular.

00:24:06.180 It's absolute madness.

00:24:08.200 And your job

00:24:08.620 as a journalist

00:24:09.160 is to be skeptical

00:24:10.340 all the time.

00:24:12.060 Yes.

00:24:12.180 I'm not saying

00:24:12.900 that this is happening

00:24:13.960 all the time,

00:24:14.580 but I'm just saying

00:24:15.460 that skepticism

00:24:16.240 is what we do

00:24:17.140 as journalists

00:24:18.480 and the crime itself

00:24:20.120 is a real crime.

00:24:21.520 It's a horrible crime

00:24:22.240 and one has to do

00:24:22.940 the throat clearing

00:24:23.380 about that

00:24:23.800 because you always

00:24:24.740 get accused

00:24:25.320 of just minimizing it

00:24:27.080 when you're doing

00:24:27.440 basic journalism

00:24:28.180 and basic skepticism.

00:24:29.400 I'll bet you

00:24:30.060 it's happening more now

00:24:31.320 post the Me Too movement

00:24:32.700 where women think

00:24:33.740 this is an arrow

00:24:36.860 in my quiver.

00:24:38.560 You know,

00:24:38.760 I can use this.

00:24:40.020 The culture has corrected

00:24:41.680 in some good ways,

00:24:43.040 you know,

00:24:43.200 in some good ways.

00:24:43.780 It used to be

00:24:44.200 back when I was in school.

00:24:46.140 The pendulum

00:24:46.760 was too far the other way

00:24:47.700 where it was basically

00:24:48.600 you couldn't prove anything

00:24:49.340 and you'd probably

00:24:50.160 never get any remedy

00:24:51.380 if you'd been attacked.

00:24:52.360 It was very, very hard.

00:24:53.600 So they overcorrected

00:24:54.460 and now we're still

00:24:55.460 in the overcorrection phase

00:24:56.400 to where we're ruining

00:24:57.080 men's lives

00:24:57.700 with no evidence.

00:24:58.900 There was a case

00:24:59.860 and I think it was Amherst

00:25:01.000 where the guy

00:25:01.540 didn't even get access

00:25:02.620 to his accuser's text messages

00:25:03.900 and they were full of

00:25:05.260 revelations that she was lying.

00:25:07.280 She was owning

00:25:07.920 that she was lying

00:25:08.700 and she was setting him up

00:25:09.480 and the guy never had access

00:25:10.360 to them

00:25:10.660 because of the kangaroo court system.

00:25:12.080 But in this case,

00:25:13.480 they did a rape test

00:25:15.920 on her,

00:25:17.140 you know,

00:25:17.300 the kit,

00:25:18.300 I guess,

00:25:20.260 from what I'm reading

00:25:21.260 after both of the allegations,

00:25:23.120 you know,

00:25:23.300 the one in August

00:25:23.960 and the one in October.

00:25:25.200 And they said

00:25:26.100 neither one came back

00:25:27.580 consistent with a rape.

00:25:28.860 So it sounds like

00:25:30.260 without knowing all the details,

00:25:31.360 they didn't find semen

00:25:32.440 or they certainly

00:25:33.280 didn't see anything

00:25:33.940 that was suggestive of a rape.

00:25:35.960 Why wasn't that disclosed?

00:25:37.620 Why wasn't like

00:25:38.280 or even if you don't

00:25:39.420 want to disclose that,

00:25:40.240 put something

00:25:41.240 into your public messaging

00:25:42.240 that gives the mob

00:25:43.680 some reason

00:25:44.460 or even just

00:25:45.600 reasonable minded people

00:25:46.600 reading about it,

00:25:47.580 some reason to understand

00:25:48.500 this may be a hoax.

00:25:50.020 You've got to understand

00:25:50.880 that is a possibility.

00:25:51.800 And to me,

00:25:52.600 just the biggest takeaway

00:25:53.340 is these poor,

00:25:54.760 poor guys

00:25:55.260 on these campuses

00:25:56.200 who,

00:25:57.560 can you imagine

00:25:58.320 being in college today,

00:25:59.580 you guys,

00:26:00.180 and having to deal

00:26:00.760 with this climate?

00:26:02.420 I mean,

00:26:03.060 not being in college

00:26:03.900 is also terrifying.

00:26:05.520 Just for the record.

00:26:06.480 I go everywhere

00:26:08.980 with forms,

00:26:10.360 you know,

00:26:11.200 with fingerprinting devices.

00:26:12.680 I just make sure,

00:26:13.600 like,

00:26:13.760 are we good?

00:26:14.860 My life is

00:26:15.660 into college.

00:26:16.240 Your little flower pen

00:26:16.400 recording everything.

00:26:18.400 I like the idea

00:26:19.120 that Moynihan

00:26:19.640 obviously doesn't know

00:26:20.340 anything about physics,

00:26:21.540 but he does know

00:26:22.520 how bottles of beer

00:26:24.380 when thrown

00:26:25.240 on people's craniums.

00:26:27.880 Trust me,

00:26:28.460 it was like

00:26:29.100 the Zapruder film.

00:26:30.120 We went and we shot

00:26:31.140 a, you know,

00:26:32.220 watermelon in the backyard

00:26:33.220 to see if we could

00:26:33.900 recreate the gunshots

00:26:35.940 at Dealey Plaza.

00:26:36.820 I was throwing

00:26:37.520 those things for weeks.

00:26:38.580 I said,

00:26:38.840 this can't be true.

00:26:41.720 Basic skepticism.

00:26:43.200 Come on.

00:26:44.400 We've got to go.

00:26:45.040 We've got to stay

00:26:45.440 on Stanford for a minute.

00:26:46.420 Oh, by the way,

00:26:47.000 I wanted to add this.

00:26:48.100 Heather McDonald,

00:26:48.940 she's brilliant.

00:26:49.620 She's done great reporting

00:26:50.480 on this alleged,

00:26:51.480 you know,

00:26:52.160 rampant sexual assault

00:26:53.180 on campuses issue.

00:26:54.440 Just Google Heather McDonald

00:26:55.580 and sexual assault on campus.

00:26:56.660 You come up

00:26:56.940 and she has a great book

00:26:57.640 on it and so on.

00:26:58.200 But she did point out

00:26:59.520 in one of her pieces

00:27:00.120 that the vast majority

00:27:02.780 of those in that

00:27:03.520 alleged 40%

00:27:04.840 who will experience

00:27:06.600 sexual violence

00:27:07.760 on campus

00:27:08.760 never report it.

00:27:11.000 Why is that?

00:27:11.640 Because there's a culture

00:27:12.400 against women?

00:27:13.200 No, it's because

00:27:14.060 she says the overwhelming

00:27:15.280 reason why the alleged

00:27:16.520 victims do not report

00:27:17.660 is that when you ask them,

00:27:19.980 they do not think

00:27:20.800 it was that serious.

00:27:22.400 It was like

00:27:23.020 some guy tried to kiss me

00:27:24.280 and I didn't want it.

00:27:25.220 You know,

00:27:25.400 some guy grabbed my ass

00:27:26.800 and I didn't want it.

00:27:27.600 These are not,

00:27:28.220 you know,

00:27:28.940 the activists

00:27:29.720 want you to believe

00:27:30.540 40% of the women

00:27:31.640 on college campuses

00:27:32.280 are going to get raped.

00:27:32.920 That's a lie.

00:27:34.660 You've got to look deeper

00:27:35.540 and actually I did

00:27:36.200 a long report for this

00:27:36.940 for special report

00:27:37.780 back when Brit Hume

00:27:38.480 was at the helm

00:27:39.100 years and years ago

00:27:40.440 and some of the ways

00:27:41.880 that sexual violence

00:27:42.880 or violence against women

00:27:43.720 is defined on campus

00:27:44.540 can include something

00:27:45.300 like just any unwanted

00:27:47.120 touching at all.

00:27:48.000 Like somebody grabs your arm

00:27:48.960 and you're in the 40%.

00:27:50.440 So all those stats

00:27:52.100 need to be taken

00:27:52.580 with a huge grain of salt.

00:27:54.200 All right,

00:27:54.280 so while we're on

00:27:54.920 the topic of Stanford,

00:27:56.420 let's go up

00:27:57.120 a couple of years

00:27:58.060 to the law school.

00:28:00.440 We had the head

00:28:01.300 of the Federalist Society,

00:28:02.400 which is the more

00:28:02.780 conservative-leaning group

00:28:03.620 within the law school

00:28:04.380 student body.

00:28:05.800 They invited this

00:28:06.740 Fifth Circuit judge

00:28:07.580 to come,

00:28:08.200 Judge Duncan,

00:28:08.960 speak to the students

00:28:09.700 on campus,

00:28:10.180 the Federalist Society.

00:28:11.180 Great, fine,

00:28:11.760 happens all the time.

00:28:12.380 He's more right-leaning.

00:28:13.400 So is the Federalist Society.

00:28:14.300 Works out fine.

00:28:15.180 Plenty of left-leaning

00:28:15.800 speakers on Stanford, too.

00:28:17.800 Nope,

00:28:18.040 the law students

00:28:18.520 couldn't take it.

00:28:19.360 Shouted him down.

00:28:20.620 Now David Latt,

00:28:22.080 who I believe

00:28:22.480 started above the law.

00:28:23.580 Now he's got a stub stack.

00:28:24.520 Yeah.

00:28:24.880 And he's a lawyer

00:28:25.680 slash reporter.

00:28:26.860 And he's gotten his hands

00:28:28.220 on the full audio

00:28:29.040 talking about how

00:28:29.860 Judge Duncan

00:28:30.540 takes to the lectern.

00:28:32.260 Students start making

00:28:33.320 gagging noises,

00:28:35.380 keep screaming out,

00:28:37.060 heckling,

00:28:37.760 boring,

00:28:38.480 we took con law,

00:28:39.640 and so on,

00:28:41.000 continuing to disrupt him.

00:28:42.340 And then it goes downhill

00:28:43.100 from there.

00:28:43.680 The guy was not able

00:28:44.360 to give his remarks.

00:28:45.240 Then that weird DEI lady

00:28:46.480 took the mic

00:28:47.060 with her prepared mark

00:28:48.220 she had written down,

00:28:49.040 hijacked the whole event,

00:28:49.940 lectured him.

00:28:50.900 It was so offensive.

00:28:52.300 Well then,

00:28:53.220 the law school dean,

00:28:54.040 Jenny Martinez,

00:28:55.300 apologized to the judge

00:28:56.540 saying,

00:28:57.460 you were treated

00:28:57.780 disrespectfully

00:28:58.420 and that behavior

00:28:59.360 is not consistent

00:28:59.980 with our approach,

00:29:01.740 our policy here on Stanford

00:29:02.920 when it comes to

00:29:03.540 allowing speech.

00:29:05.200 So she apologized to him

00:29:06.560 and she suggested

00:29:07.620 that this DEI gal

00:29:08.700 is under review too

00:29:09.820 because instead of

00:29:11.140 allowing the guy to speak

00:29:12.420 and preventing the disruptions,

00:29:14.020 she was disruptor in chief.

00:29:16.140 So this dean,

00:29:17.300 Martinez,

00:29:17.820 arrives to,

00:29:19.220 I think she also

00:29:20.100 was teaching Conlet.

00:29:21.100 She shows up to her classroom

00:29:22.440 after her apology

00:29:23.180 and she's not going to

00:29:24.040 and she finds

00:29:25.060 a whiteboard

00:29:26.040 covered inch to inch

00:29:27.760 in flyers

00:29:29.100 attacking the judge

00:29:30.740 and defending those

00:29:32.220 who disrupted him.

00:29:34.500 We,

00:29:35.180 the students

00:29:35.520 in your con law class

00:29:36.640 are sorry for exercising

00:29:38.040 our First Amendment rights.

00:29:40.700 The protests,

00:29:42.360 the protesters

00:29:42.880 who are apparently

00:29:44.180 in and outside

00:29:45.020 of her classroom,

00:29:46.420 this is just this past Monday,

00:29:48.180 they were dressed

00:29:48.860 in all black,

00:29:50.300 ready for the drama.

00:29:51.160 like these young people,

00:29:52.780 they love drama.

00:29:53.840 They dressed in black.

00:29:55.500 They wore face masks

00:29:56.820 that read,

00:29:57.860 counter speech

00:29:58.540 is free speech.

00:30:00.040 They stared silently

00:30:02.020 at Martinez

00:30:03.160 as she exited her class

00:30:04.840 at 11 a.m.

00:30:05.660 Oh, burn,

00:30:06.680 burned.

00:30:07.320 They,

00:30:07.660 or as the kids

00:30:08.500 would say today,

00:30:09.340 roasted.

00:30:10.080 She got roasted.

00:30:10.940 They stared.

00:30:11.800 They stared at her

00:30:12.580 while wearing their masks.

00:30:14.180 The student protesters

00:30:15.040 formed a human corridor

00:30:16.360 from Martinez's classroom

00:30:18.060 to the building's exit

00:30:19.120 comprising nearly

00:30:20.360 a third of the law school

00:30:21.740 who were very angry

00:30:23.040 with her.

00:30:24.760 The few who did not

00:30:26.240 join the protesters,

00:30:27.700 Evergreen,

00:30:28.240 this is just like Evergreen,

00:30:29.240 Brett Weinstein,

00:30:30.340 received the same stare down

00:30:31.920 as the professor

00:30:33.060 as they hurried

00:30:34.280 through the makeshift

00:30:35.060 walk of shame.

00:30:37.180 One of the students

00:30:38.020 who did not agree

00:30:38.960 and did not wear black

00:30:39.940 was quoted as saying,

00:30:41.680 they are creating

00:30:43.200 a hostile work environment,

00:30:44.320 a hostile environment here

00:30:45.220 for anyone who thinks

00:30:46.080 an Article 3 judge

00:30:46.940 should be able to speak

00:30:48.440 without heckling.

00:30:50.860 This also is an annoying story.

00:30:52.440 By the way,

00:30:52.740 that whole thing was quoted

00:30:53.420 from the Washington Free Beacon.

00:30:56.320 Can you go to college anymore?

00:30:58.400 Can you send your kid

00:30:59.460 to Stanford Law School?

00:31:01.260 Like,

00:31:01.620 all of this is about extremism

00:31:04.080 on campus

00:31:04.900 when it comes to woke ideologies.

00:31:08.280 And again,

00:31:08.700 we're talking about

00:31:09.060 Stanford Law School.

00:31:11.380 Stanford is not really known

00:31:13.200 historically

00:31:13.800 as the place

00:31:14.720 where you're,

00:31:15.780 it's not Evergreen.

00:31:17.480 It's not Reed College.

00:31:19.680 It's Stanford.

00:31:20.840 This is the West Coast

00:31:22.100 prestigious school.

00:31:23.700 This is the only

00:31:24.260 non-Ivy League school

00:31:25.740 that ever sends,

00:31:26.620 you know,

00:31:27.300 judges to the Supreme Court.

00:31:29.140 It's Stanford.

00:31:30.680 It has the Hoover Institution.

00:31:32.660 The Hoover Institution

00:31:33.720 is not an Evergreen

00:31:35.780 University institution.

00:31:37.360 It is center-right think tank

00:31:39.220 talking about important things.

00:31:41.160 Leland Stanford,

00:31:42.140 look him up.

00:31:43.060 Wasn't woke.

00:31:43.740 That's not where

00:31:45.520 this comes from.

00:31:46.420 I can't believe

00:31:47.100 that this is happening

00:31:48.360 in a law school,

00:31:51.220 any law school,

00:31:51.860 let alone Stanford, right?

00:31:53.000 This is,

00:31:53.420 this is undergraduate stuff.

00:31:55.320 This is what you do

00:31:56.120 in the seven years

00:31:57.700 that it takes you

00:31:58.380 to not graduate

00:31:59.240 from a four-year

00:32:00.060 university

00:32:00.500 is that you engage

00:32:02.740 in all kinds

00:32:03.540 of different protests.

00:32:04.500 at my school,

00:32:06.780 the UC Santa Barbara

00:32:07.820 is all about

00:32:09.040 protesting apartheid

00:32:10.480 and having shanty towns

00:32:11.620 and blocking

00:32:12.580 the oil platform

00:32:13.760 is great, right?

00:32:14.920 It's fun stuff

00:32:15.700 that you do

00:32:16.260 when you're an undergrad.

00:32:18.120 When you're in a law school,

00:32:19.600 you're preventing people

00:32:20.480 from talking

00:32:21.100 who are a judge.

00:32:23.500 What are you doing?

00:32:24.620 I don't understand

00:32:25.680 the process.

00:32:27.500 I,

00:32:27.580 granted,

00:32:28.600 I'm,

00:32:29.020 you know,

00:32:29.220 Megan,

00:32:29.500 I'm not a lawyer

00:32:30.520 like you,

00:32:31.200 but what I understand

00:32:32.600 from the law

00:32:33.360 is that it's

00:32:34.020 an adversarial process

00:32:35.380 in which people

00:32:36.140 make competing claims

00:32:37.360 and arguments

00:32:38.060 pinned on basic

00:32:40.440 sort of documents

00:32:41.140 and truths

00:32:42.060 under oath.

00:32:42.940 That seems like

00:32:43.940 a process

00:32:44.500 where you would need

00:32:45.380 to be able

00:32:45.880 to engage

00:32:46.520 with people

00:32:47.180 with whom

00:32:47.920 you have a disagreement

00:32:48.980 and try to convince

00:32:50.980 a neutral arbiter

00:32:52.580 of the righteousness

00:32:53.780 of your interpretation

00:32:55.360 of the truth.

00:32:56.300 I don't know

00:32:57.120 what making people

00:32:58.240 not talk

00:32:59.140 teaches you

00:33:00.220 in that process.

00:33:01.040 It's really

00:33:01.680 embarrassing

00:33:02.240 and to answer

00:33:03.800 your question,

00:33:04.940 I have a daughter

00:33:05.340 who's 14.

00:33:06.820 Gosh,

00:33:07.280 I hope she goes

00:33:07.760 to college

00:33:08.240 in Europe

00:33:08.900 where this hasn't

00:33:10.900 happened yet.

00:33:11.420 I don't know

00:33:12.400 if there's any better

00:33:12.900 over there.

00:33:13.960 But I will say,

00:33:14.940 you know,

00:33:15.360 you stand up,

00:33:17.400 you hate your adversary.

00:33:18.520 I mean,

00:33:18.760 been there.

00:33:19.560 You don't get to grunt.

00:33:21.200 You don't get to

00:33:22.060 interrupt his presentation

00:33:24.300 to the judge

00:33:25.280 with,

00:33:25.800 you know,

00:33:26.600 fascist!

00:33:27.600 I took con law!

00:33:28.820 You suck!

00:33:29.420 Boo on MAGA

00:33:30.780 and Trump,

00:33:31.300 whatever they said.

00:33:32.920 You're not going to last

00:33:33.660 long.

00:33:34.100 You could try it.

00:33:35.100 You'd be in contempt

00:33:36.040 of court.

00:33:36.980 You would be sanctioned

00:33:37.740 by the judge

00:33:38.260 and you would be humiliated

00:33:39.600 in front of your client.

00:33:40.580 Like,

00:33:41.020 this behavior,

00:33:41.920 counter speech

00:33:42.820 is free speech.

00:33:43.880 Sure,

00:33:44.760 shut the F up,

00:33:46.400 let him give his presentation

00:33:47.660 and then pepper him

00:33:49.180 with tough questions

00:33:49.940 when he's done.

00:33:50.680 How did you back this ruling?

00:33:52.120 How did you dehumanize?

00:33:53.140 Whatever they want to say.

00:33:54.720 It's absolute nonsense.

00:33:56.220 They do this all the time.

00:33:57.280 It's the same thing

00:33:58.080 when people get canceled

00:33:59.380 and they say

00:33:59.680 it's accountability.

00:34:00.860 This is just counter speech.

00:34:02.160 It's like,

00:34:02.400 no, no,

00:34:02.580 you're mow mowing someone.

00:34:03.920 You're not allowing them to speak.

00:34:05.480 It's not counter speech

00:34:06.500 to prevent somebody's speech.

00:34:08.080 That's thuggery.

00:34:09.440 And what Matt said,

00:34:10.200 which is funny,

00:34:10.900 about the 1980s,

00:34:11.900 it was always

00:34:12.360 the protests on campus

00:34:13.920 were the shanty towns.

00:34:14.800 They built these.

00:34:15.380 This is very famous.

00:34:16.060 You can look it up.

00:34:16.980 And it was protesting

00:34:17.940 something that deserved

00:34:18.980 to be protested.

00:34:20.280 The racist regime

00:34:21.640 of the South African

00:34:23.020 apartheid government

00:34:24.280 that was a hideous blot

00:34:26.440 on the world

00:34:28.080 at that point.

00:34:29.180 Right now,

00:34:29.900 kids are protesting

00:34:30.760 and I do refer to them as kids

00:34:32.040 even if they're in their 40s.

00:34:33.200 They're acting like kids.

00:34:34.140 They're protesting

00:34:34.900 the exchange of ideas.

00:34:37.320 This is where we've gone

00:34:38.980 horribly off the rails.

00:34:40.740 Matt also made the point

00:34:41.580 that this is undergraduate stuff.

00:34:43.100 Yes.

00:34:43.780 And guess what?

00:34:44.400 The undergraduates

00:34:45.080 we've been pointing

00:34:45.940 this stuff out

00:34:46.700 for five, six, seven,

00:34:48.540 eight, nine years

00:34:49.040 are now graduate students.

00:34:50.200 They haven't gotten over it.

00:34:51.120 It's part of who they are

00:34:52.560 at this point.

00:34:53.140 It's part of how they view debate,

00:34:55.160 which I find so hideous.

00:34:56.540 It is Maoist.

00:34:58.180 And I'm sorry to say

00:34:59.020 that this is not

00:34:59.620 the exact same thing

00:35:00.480 or any way

00:35:01.240 of the Cultural Revolution.

00:35:02.660 But the first death

00:35:03.460 in the Cultural Revolution,

00:35:04.360 by the way,

00:35:04.660 was a teacher

00:35:05.120 that was killed by students.

00:35:06.540 This is actually true.

00:35:07.600 And I was just thinking

00:35:08.480 of this now.

00:35:08.980 It's like,

00:35:09.180 I don't want to make

00:35:10.100 that comparison.

00:35:11.260 But it has all the instincts

00:35:12.720 of it to shut down debate

00:35:14.440 and say that you are

00:35:15.760 on the wrong side of history

00:35:16.820 and you should know that.

00:35:18.320 De facto,

00:35:18.960 you should know that.

00:35:19.640 I don't have to prove my case.

00:35:21.120 You just should know

00:35:22.300 that you are on the wrong side

00:35:23.260 of history

00:35:23.640 and you're a horrible person.

00:35:25.240 So this is the problem.

00:35:26.900 When they get out

00:35:27.640 into the world,

00:35:28.860 it becomes a really difficult thing.

00:35:30.320 This is what you see

00:35:30.860 in jobs these days

00:35:32.500 when people go to HR

00:35:33.760 for the most bizarre things,

00:35:36.280 the most benign things.

00:35:37.560 I have seen this myself,

00:35:39.240 recently seen this myself,

00:35:41.100 of people that just,

00:35:42.140 you know,

00:35:42.340 weird,

00:35:42.960 odd interactions

00:35:44.060 become HR nightmares

00:35:46.020 because they come out

00:35:47.060 of this crucible of nonsense

00:35:48.680 in universities

00:35:49.840 in which people

00:35:51.020 are not taught

00:35:51.760 how to think.

00:35:52.820 They're taught

00:35:53.480 how to be upset

00:35:54.720 and how to be angry

00:35:56.080 and how to be offended,

00:35:57.320 which is fine.

00:35:58.300 You want to be those things?

00:35:59.340 Absolutely.

00:36:00.340 I was about to swear.

00:36:01.360 Fine.

00:36:02.080 But be able

00:36:03.020 to make the argument

00:36:03.680 as to why

00:36:04.540 and then I will crush you

00:36:05.860 like a bug

00:36:06.480 because you're a silly

00:36:07.700 nonsense person.

00:36:08.680 But as opposed

00:36:09.520 to just letting this happen,

00:36:10.780 this is,

00:36:11.640 the feeling is itself

00:36:13.320 justified by what you do.

00:36:15.820 All that is justified

00:36:16.520 by your own feelings.

00:36:17.660 Nonsense.

00:36:18.100 These people who are so indignant,

00:36:20.080 as I point out

00:36:20.860 from David Laskin,

00:36:21.360 Like me.

00:36:22.020 Were gagging.

00:36:22.740 I'm sorry,

00:36:22.960 I'm indignant right now.

00:36:24.160 The judge got up there

00:36:25.060 and they were like,

00:36:25.640 this is them.

00:36:27.480 Okay,

00:36:27.800 they want,

00:36:28.840 that's the truth

00:36:29.500 they're so proud of

00:36:30.260 and they were holding up a sign,

00:36:31.680 we have a picture of it,

00:36:33.140 that reads,

00:36:34.680 this judge,

00:36:35.720 Judge Duncan,

00:36:36.160 can't find the clitoris,

00:36:37.820 only the shorter

00:36:38.600 form of that,

00:36:39.140 which sounds more vulgar.

00:36:40.500 I mean,

00:36:40.920 it's disgusting.

00:36:41.680 So like,

00:36:42.100 what does that even mean?

00:36:42.780 Screw these kids.

00:36:43.780 He's bad at sex.

00:36:44.580 I don't know.

00:36:44.600 I don't know.

00:36:47.400 What is wrong with me?

00:36:49.880 How come I don't understand this?

00:36:51.480 What is the insane insult?

00:36:52.960 Do you understand the clitoris?

00:36:53.920 No, I don't,

00:36:54.560 but no one has a sign

00:36:55.920 in front of me about it.

00:36:58.020 They just,

00:36:58.440 they just,

00:36:58.860 no,

00:36:59.120 I said,

00:36:59.380 yeah,

00:36:59.480 no,

00:36:59.640 I don't get it.

00:37:00.180 I've been looking for years.

00:37:01.500 It's like the arc of the covenant.

00:37:03.180 I don't know.

00:37:04.820 But what does it have to do with law?

00:37:07.680 Good God.

00:37:09.000 I'm going to give you the directions

00:37:09.820 on that right after this.

00:37:11.960 Can we do that in the break,

00:37:13.340 please?

00:37:13.820 Yeah.

00:37:14.740 I've been trying to find someone.

00:37:19.000 Chatbot AI is like,

00:37:20.280 no,

00:37:20.520 we can't help.

00:37:22.480 Two out of the three,

00:37:23.940 our fifth column friends

00:37:24.900 right after this quick break.

00:37:26.680 So before we leave

00:37:31.700 the campus insanity,

00:37:33.140 I would be remiss

00:37:33.760 if I did not bring up

00:37:34.660 what's happening up in Canada.

00:37:36.460 And this,

00:37:37.000 Matt,

00:37:37.160 goes to your point of

00:37:38.380 people respond

00:37:40.120 to these incentives.

00:37:42.200 Okay,

00:37:42.480 so let's journey north

00:37:43.700 and I want to introduce you

00:37:45.500 to a woman

00:37:46.620 named Vianne Timmons

00:37:49.180 who's been president

00:37:50.580 of the Memorial University

00:37:52.160 of Newfoundland

00:37:54.020 since 2020.

00:37:55.200 No,

00:37:55.580 she's president

00:37:56.100 of the university.

00:37:57.000 That's pretty,

00:37:57.940 pretty prestigious.

00:37:59.720 She too,

00:38:00.520 just like the accuser

00:38:01.500 at Stanford

00:38:02.100 is taking six weeks

00:38:03.280 of voluntary leave.

00:38:05.660 Hers is paid.

00:38:07.000 I don't know

00:38:07.480 whether the accuser

00:38:08.360 in Stanford

00:38:08.740 is getting paid

00:38:09.520 while she's on leave.

00:38:11.060 But this woman's

00:38:11.580 taking six weeks

00:38:12.120 of voluntary paid leave.

00:38:12.940 Now,

00:38:13.140 why?

00:38:13.700 What did Vianne Timmons do?

00:38:16.580 Well,

00:38:17.780 she,

00:38:18.840 as it turns out,

00:38:19.960 has been,

00:38:21.220 I've got a credit

00:38:22.060 National Post

00:38:22.600 in Canada

00:38:22.940 for this term.

00:38:23.460 She's a pretendian.

00:38:25.200 She's a pretendian.

00:38:26.520 A pretendian

00:38:27.320 might be another way.

00:38:28.640 She's a pretend Indian

00:38:29.460 is what they're trying to say.

00:38:31.100 She's been claiming

00:38:32.020 fake Native American

00:38:33.620 or native status.

00:38:34.840 She's Canadian.

00:38:36.360 And she isn't one.

00:38:38.340 They entered,

00:38:39.620 I guess there was

00:38:40.560 some sort of

00:38:41.660 deep look

00:38:43.060 into these claims

00:38:44.980 that she'd been making

00:38:45.840 that she had

00:38:46.960 indigenous ancestry

00:38:48.600 by the CBC.

00:38:49.440 and the probe

00:38:50.780 found no proof

00:38:51.480 that she has

00:38:52.000 this ancestry

00:38:52.660 whatsoever

00:38:53.400 despite her claiming

00:38:54.440 First Nation heritage.

00:38:57.040 Timmons explained

00:38:57.700 that she became

00:38:59.300 a member,

00:38:59.960 now forgive me,

00:39:00.640 I'm going to butcher this,

00:39:01.380 but I'm going to give it a try.

00:39:02.760 She became a member

00:39:03.580 of the

00:39:04.120 Brazior-Mikmack

00:39:06.740 First Nation

00:39:07.620 in Cape Breton

00:39:09.120 after her brother

00:39:10.500 researched their family's

00:39:11.540 genealogy

00:39:12.020 around 2009.

00:39:13.160 She became a member

00:39:13.960 of the First Nation

00:39:15.100 tribe.

00:39:16.940 Timmons said

00:39:17.340 her father

00:39:17.740 had told her

00:39:18.260 when she was

00:39:18.540 in her 30s

00:39:19.000 that she had

00:39:19.560 a Mi'kmaw

00:39:20.340 great-great-great-grandmother

00:39:22.300 great-great-great-grandmother

00:39:24.240 but that he was

00:39:25.520 ashamed of it.

00:39:26.640 However,

00:39:27.200 CBC News

00:39:27.860 could not find

00:39:28.740 any Mi'kmaw relative

00:39:30.160 closer than

00:39:31.040 ready?

00:39:32.300 Ten generations

00:39:33.660 removed.

00:39:35.040 They went back

00:39:35.880 some

00:39:36.200 400 years.

00:39:39.980 I love these stories.

00:39:42.520 She claimed,

00:39:43.740 however,

00:39:44.080 not to be deterred,

00:39:45.000 I have documentation

00:39:46.200 that will prove

00:39:47.160 a closer link

00:39:48.260 than that.

00:39:48.680 And they said,

00:39:49.100 well,

00:39:49.300 could we have

00:39:49.840 that documentation?

00:39:50.620 She said,

00:39:50.960 well,

00:39:51.080 it's likely

00:39:51.420 in my mom's

00:39:51.880 house

00:39:52.040 and I can't

00:39:52.400 find it.

00:39:53.340 Okay.

00:39:54.360 Stephen White,

00:39:55.280 who's a genealogist

00:39:56.120 consulted by the CBC,

00:39:59.020 told the broadcaster

00:40:00.040 that Timmons'

00:40:00.840 most likely claim

00:40:01.620 to indigenous heritage

00:40:02.500 was via her

00:40:03.260 great-great-great-grandmother

00:40:04.320 Marie Benoit,

00:40:05.760 who was herself

00:40:06.600 just

00:40:07.180 one-sixteenth

00:40:08.480 Mi'kmaq.

00:40:10.140 One-sixteenth.

00:40:12.200 Now Timmons

00:40:13.060 on her heels

00:40:13.620 claims,

00:40:14.060 well,

00:40:14.620 I've never benefited

00:40:15.900 from this claim.

00:40:17.320 All right,

00:40:17.560 just so you know,

00:40:18.240 like it was just like

00:40:18.880 sort of a fun family thing,

00:40:20.140 but I never used it.

00:40:21.300 But the CBC News investigation

00:40:22.600 found that the membership

00:40:24.660 in the tribe

00:40:25.480 was listed on her resume.

00:40:27.680 Last updated when?

00:40:28.900 30 years ago?

00:40:29.620 No,

00:40:29.980 2016.

00:40:31.140 That it was also referenced

00:40:32.380 in her biographies

00:40:34.120 for her professional dealings,

00:40:35.940 including a national advisory board.

00:40:37.600 Listen to this.

00:40:38.580 They also found that

00:40:39.560 the tribe membership,

00:40:41.520 when she's saying

00:40:41.940 she's a member of the tribe,

00:40:43.140 was listed in multiple

00:40:44.760 professional biographies

00:40:46.060 between 2011 and 2018.

00:40:48.780 And then,

00:40:49.560 just in case you had any doubt

00:40:50.820 about the veracity

00:40:51.760 of her claim,

00:40:52.280 she's never used it,

00:40:53.640 she was the 2019 recipient

00:40:55.780 of an Ind Spire,

00:40:59.600 I-N-D,

00:41:00.480 Ind Spire Award

00:41:01.900 for Education,

00:41:03.520 an award openly touted as,

00:41:05.180 quote,

00:41:05.220 the highest honor

00:41:06.700 the Indigenous community

00:41:07.940 bestows upon,

00:41:09.700 wait for it,

00:41:10.860 its own people.

00:41:14.680 Matt Welsh,

00:41:15.480 your point has been made

00:41:17.020 very clear.

00:41:19.580 By the way,

00:41:20.180 this is the second time

00:41:20.840 this has happened recently

00:41:21.880 in Canada.

00:41:22.620 Yes.

00:41:22.820 There was a woman

00:41:23.440 who is the top

00:41:24.360 Indigenous health expert,

00:41:26.480 and I think

00:41:26.800 for the Canadian government,

00:41:27.640 it turned out

00:41:28.100 she was a pretendian too.

00:41:30.440 And there's a woman

00:41:31.300 who actually,

00:41:31.960 very funny,

00:41:32.640 keeps a list of these people.

00:41:33.800 And you look into it

00:41:35.080 and they always do

00:41:35.720 the same thing.

00:41:36.160 It's a Elizabeth Warren thing.

00:41:37.680 You know,

00:41:37.940 I've been told in my family,

00:41:40.500 this is in my family too,

00:41:41.660 everybody I know

00:41:42.460 has had that

00:41:43.240 and you just don't believe

00:41:44.420 it at some point.

00:41:45.440 But if there was

00:41:46.700 some kind of racial hierarchy

00:41:48.460 that we just look down

00:41:50.780 upon all these people,

00:41:51.680 why would everybody

00:41:52.520 be claiming

00:41:53.340 to be partially this,

00:41:54.900 that, or the other?

00:41:55.500 You'd imagine

00:41:55.860 they'd be running away from it.

00:41:57.000 But the incredible thing

00:41:57.760 about it is

00:41:58.340 this is race science.

00:42:00.100 This is blood science.

00:42:01.540 Because this woman says,

00:42:02.500 oh, I discovered it.

00:42:03.800 Which means you've never

00:42:04.720 been discriminated against.

00:42:05.900 You've never been held back

00:42:07.140 because of it.

00:42:07.840 So now you're saying

00:42:08.680 that you have some sort of

00:42:09.560 blood quotient

00:42:10.560 that is a little bit in there.

00:42:12.400 So therefore,

00:42:13.040 give me things?

00:42:14.500 Come on now.

00:42:15.420 The same thing,

00:42:16.020 Elizabeth Warren, by the way,

00:42:17.240 and this is the kind of

00:42:18.220 rock, paper, scissors

00:42:19.080 when it comes to

00:42:20.160 the people on the progressive left

00:42:21.600 about this stuff.

00:42:22.460 They like her too much.

00:42:23.900 So they won't actually complain

00:42:25.300 about the fact that

00:42:25.940 she used it

00:42:26.760 in her job application

00:42:28.860 at Harvard Law School.

00:42:30.120 She ticked it off

00:42:31.620 and she was, you know,

00:42:32.940 kind of ushered in

00:42:33.960 and counted as a minority

00:42:35.740 on staff.

00:42:36.560 If you are somebody

00:42:37.380 who believes in this

00:42:38.400 kind of, you know, voodoo,

00:42:39.980 you should say,

00:42:41.340 didn't she actually

00:42:42.180 take that away

00:42:42.880 from somebody

00:42:43.440 who was actually native

00:42:44.640 and not somebody

00:42:45.740 whose mother told them

00:42:47.700 that 18 generations ago

00:42:49.380 somebody watched

00:42:50.360 an episode of F Troop

00:42:51.600 and now all of a sudden

00:42:52.380 they're part of a tribe.

00:42:53.480 Come on now.

00:42:54.760 It's all nonsense

00:42:55.880 and we should humiliate

00:42:57.160 these people

00:42:57.600 as much as possible.

00:42:58.340 And thank God Camille's not here

00:42:59.920 because it'd say it's all fake

00:43:00.980 and I agree with him.

00:43:02.440 It is all fake.

00:43:03.760 But, you know,

00:43:04.860 lying about it's bad.

00:43:07.340 And it's also that,

00:43:09.000 you know,

00:43:09.800 there are people

00:43:10.740 who live on

00:43:11.880 Indian reservations,

00:43:13.040 Native American reservations

00:43:13.960 in the United States,

00:43:15.600 some of the poorest people

00:43:16.860 in this country.

00:43:17.900 Like there is a,

00:43:18.740 if you want to

00:43:19.600 to have some solidarity

00:43:21.200 for people

00:43:22.160 and also think about

00:43:24.060 the economic structures,

00:43:26.600 the governance,

00:43:27.180 the way the United States

00:43:28.500 federal government

00:43:29.400 has absolutely screwed

00:43:30.740 these people over

00:43:31.460 in a systematic way,

00:43:33.060 please,

00:43:33.860 by all means,

00:43:34.660 go for it.

00:43:35.640 And also don't try

00:43:37.180 to do a stolen valor

00:43:38.140 thing with them.

00:43:39.860 I've been watching,

00:43:41.240 God help me,

00:43:42.160 the world baseball classic

00:43:43.460 a lot.

00:43:43.920 I love baseball.

00:43:44.760 I love nationalism.

00:43:45.800 So it's all great.

00:43:47.400 Go after the commies

00:43:48.640 in Venezuela

00:43:49.200 and Cuba next.

00:43:50.080 It's awesome.

00:43:50.940 But one of the things

00:43:51.600 that you realize

00:43:52.560 in watching this

00:43:53.240 is that it's wonderful

00:43:55.720 to see sort of expressions

00:43:56.740 of different types

00:43:57.620 of culture

00:43:58.880 within the baseball arena.

00:44:00.320 Japanese culture

00:44:01.420 has this kind of flair.

00:44:02.820 Sometimes Puerto Ricans

00:44:03.840 are like this.

00:44:04.500 It's fun.

00:44:05.160 It's really, really fun.

00:44:06.640 And also it reminds you

00:44:08.520 that one of the reasons

00:44:10.020 why we focus so much

00:44:11.140 on Jackie Robinson

00:44:11.860 and the breaking

00:44:12.280 of the color barrier

00:44:12.920 in 1947,

00:44:14.360 and this is true

00:44:15.940 in Jackie Robinson's writings,

00:44:17.180 which I highly recommend

00:44:17.960 anyone to delve into,

00:44:19.200 he was just righteously pissed

00:44:22.080 that you're not letting me

00:44:23.980 onto your playing field

00:44:25.040 because I am going

00:44:25.960 to kick your ass.

00:44:27.660 And in fact, he did.

00:44:28.500 He kicked the living crap

00:44:30.120 out of everybody physically

00:44:31.180 after the first year or two

00:44:32.980 of turning the other cheek.

00:44:34.600 We want the level playing field.

00:44:36.240 You don't get an extra seat

00:44:38.480 at the table.

00:44:39.100 You don't get an extra cookie

00:44:40.260 by checking off

00:44:41.340 the one drop box

00:44:42.800 on your application

00:44:44.060 to be a Major League

00:44:44.960 baseball player.

00:44:45.780 The question is,

00:44:46.460 can you play?

00:44:47.180 Okay, come on in.

00:44:48.480 No one cares.

00:44:49.760 Like, absolutely no one cares.

00:44:51.160 And you start to think,

00:44:51.880 like, why don't we have

00:44:52.840 more of that in the world?

00:44:54.900 I'm sure there are places

00:44:55.980 and times to think about

00:44:57.740 people's background,

00:44:58.880 especially, again,

00:45:00.120 on a more of a class

00:45:01.120 disadvantage level.

00:45:03.120 You overcame some disadvantages,

00:45:04.680 particularly as immigrants,

00:45:06.220 people who have been poor.

00:45:08.040 Like, you keep that

00:45:09.100 into consideration.

00:45:10.120 But for a basic job,

00:45:12.220 why are we awarding

00:45:14.060 extra cookies

00:45:15.200 to someone who ticked

00:45:16.380 that box of their,

00:45:17.240 you know,

00:45:17.760 10th great-grandparents

00:45:19.700 maybe had a little bit

00:45:20.740 of this.

00:45:21.580 It's ridiculous.

00:45:21.880 400 years ago.

00:45:23.040 Right.

00:45:23.600 That's basically

00:45:24.280 the connection now.

00:45:25.800 We should be looking

00:45:26.560 at this from a completely

00:45:27.720 different point of view,

00:45:28.800 which, you know,

00:45:29.620 just to echo Camille,

00:45:31.000 is more and more

00:45:31.860 to stop doing it

00:45:32.940 from that point of view.

00:45:34.420 You know,

00:45:34.660 look at people

00:45:35.140 who are actually suffering,

00:45:36.280 have sympathy,

00:45:37.000 figure out what best to do.

00:45:39.160 And beyond that,

00:45:40.420 it's just a weird,

00:45:42.100 weird tick.

00:45:43.180 You know what's happening?

00:45:43.980 So it's no accident,

00:45:44.620 you guys.

00:45:45.000 This is happening

00:45:45.620 at a college,

00:45:46.460 right?

00:45:46.700 Although it's not always

00:45:47.340 a college.

00:45:47.680 We just did a story

00:45:48.320 about a woman

00:45:48.720 out of Philly.

00:45:49.640 Her name is,

00:45:50.440 she said her name

00:45:50.920 is Rachel Saraswati

00:45:52.360 from Philly.

00:45:53.400 Her real name,

00:45:54.620 Raquel,

00:45:55.160 Raquel Saraswati,

00:45:56.220 but her real name

00:45:57.080 was Rachel Seidel,

00:45:58.540 who actually had

00:46:00.800 absolutely no

00:46:01.460 minority affiliations

00:46:02.700 whatsoever.

00:46:03.160 Her family says

00:46:03.640 she's white,

00:46:04.160 white as the driven snow.

00:46:05.680 But she claimed

00:46:06.380 she was Muslim

00:46:07.040 and Latinx

00:46:08.300 and all the other things

00:46:09.780 and she's been outed

00:46:10.600 as having faked it too.

00:46:12.560 But what's happening now

00:46:13.700 on a wider level

00:46:14.900 is all these colleges

00:46:16.120 are expecting

00:46:16.760 the U.S. Supreme Court

00:46:17.540 to strike down

00:46:18.080 the use of race

00:46:18.700 and the admissions.

00:46:19.600 And so they're throwing out

00:46:20.700 at the SATs,

00:46:21.980 the ACTs,

00:46:23.160 GPAs,

00:46:23.920 because there is no way

00:46:25.240 they're going to abandon

00:46:26.180 their fealty to race.

00:46:28.120 So they understand

00:46:29.040 if they actually

00:46:29.720 are just stuck with grades

00:46:30.780 as a metric of,

00:46:31.880 you know,

00:46:31.980 whether you get in or not,

00:46:32.980 that they're probably

00:46:33.800 going to see a decrease

00:46:35.120 in enrollment

00:46:35.640 of their target groups.

00:46:37.060 And they're so obsessed

00:46:38.200 with identity,

00:46:39.000 they're not having it.

00:46:40.120 So they're, you know,

00:46:40.760 preemptively starting

00:46:41.620 to change the whole

00:46:42.480 college admissions system

00:46:43.860 such that they can make it

00:46:45.360 even more racialized,

00:46:46.580 not less.

00:46:48.200 The racialization

00:46:48.960 of everything

00:46:49.400 drives me absolutely insane.

00:46:50.940 I sent Matt and Camille

00:46:52.300 a text the other day

00:46:53.100 that for reasons

00:46:54.360 that I cannot explain

00:46:55.600 and I apologize for this,

00:46:56.640 I was reading an article

00:46:57.400 in the New York Times

00:46:57.920 about the show

00:46:58.460 Girls by Lena Dunham.

00:47:01.140 And in the lead of this,

00:47:02.460 it said,

00:47:03.280 it followed four white women.

00:47:05.560 I'm sorry,

00:47:05.940 what now?

00:47:06.480 Why are you identifying

00:47:07.480 them racially?

00:47:08.140 The thing had nothing

00:47:08.940 to do with race.

00:47:09.960 You're just now identifying

00:47:11.040 people's races

00:47:11.720 when it's completely unnecessary.

00:47:13.320 And one final thing

00:47:14.600 about how old this is,

00:47:16.240 the fake Indian thing,

00:47:18.480 fake Native thing.

00:47:19.500 Remember,

00:47:19.880 we just found out

00:47:20.720 that Sachin Littlefeather,

00:47:22.660 who accepted

00:47:23.300 the Academy Award

00:47:24.480 for Marlon Brando

00:47:26.220 and went up there

00:47:27.280 in I think 1972,

00:47:28.560 I think it was

00:47:28.780 for the Godfather,

00:47:29.880 73,

00:47:30.760 and went up there.

00:47:31.840 We found out

00:47:32.420 right after she died,

00:47:33.600 her sister was like,

00:47:34.380 oh yeah,

00:47:34.720 by the way,

00:47:35.160 she's not Native American.

00:47:36.360 We always knew this.

00:47:37.680 And yeah,

00:47:37.960 we just didn't say anything

00:47:38.900 about it.

00:47:39.600 Yeah,

00:47:39.800 yeah,

00:47:40.060 Sachin Littlefeather.

00:47:41.020 She was a pretend age.

00:47:42.460 She's like Jill Smith

00:47:43.600 or something.

00:47:44.240 She's completely not.

00:47:45.580 She had some plausible claim,

00:47:48.080 but it wasn't what she was.

00:47:48.980 I think she was Mexican-American,

00:47:50.160 but yes,

00:47:50.700 it's not true.

00:47:52.000 But anyway,

00:47:52.700 sorry to ruin that for you,

00:47:54.060 Megan.

00:47:54.960 Not the same at all.

00:47:56.160 Oh my God,

00:47:56.380 that's unbelievable.

00:47:57.480 Well,

00:47:57.600 yeah,

00:47:57.780 I mean,

00:47:57.980 like more and more

00:47:58.700 we're going to see this

00:47:59.500 as,

00:48:00.020 you know,

00:48:00.600 this kind of thing

00:48:01.180 can get you a promotion.

00:48:02.320 It can get you into college

00:48:03.240 and so on.

00:48:04.140 And,

00:48:04.500 you know,

00:48:04.760 if we don't,

00:48:05.200 if we don't stand up

00:48:06.740 and try to wipe this out

00:48:08.900 once,

00:48:09.400 we're going to get

00:48:10.100 a whole lot more of it

00:48:10.800 because people respond

00:48:12.360 to incentives

00:48:13.360 in the great words

00:48:14.320 of Matt Welsh.

00:48:15.220 All right,

00:48:15.560 Matt and Michael

00:48:16.740 stay with us

00:48:17.280 for the rest of the show.

00:48:18.140 There's so much more

00:48:18.580 to get to,

00:48:18.960 including the reenactment

00:48:20.780 by the two guys

00:48:21.960 who helped Jussie Smollett

00:48:23.000 in his fake hate crime hoax.

00:48:25.960 They went back

00:48:26.620 and redid it for Fox Nation.

00:48:27.780 We'll show you what they did.

00:48:33.280 Speaking of race hoaxes,

00:48:35.980 Jussie Smollett,

00:48:37.880 Jussie Smollett,

00:48:38.900 is back in the news.

00:48:40.880 We talked about this

00:48:41.640 actually about a week ago.

00:48:42.660 He's filed an appeal

00:48:43.600 on his criminal conviction

00:48:44.780 for the race hoax

00:48:45.880 that he perpetrated

00:48:46.740 in Chicago

00:48:47.500 during the polar vortex

00:48:48.580 where he had two

00:48:49.620 of his buddies

00:48:50.140 attack him,

00:48:51.900 two black guys.

00:48:53.120 I mean,

00:48:53.260 it's like,

00:48:53.660 if you're going to

00:48:54.260 try to pretend

00:48:54.780 that you're the victim

00:48:55.280 of a race hoax,

00:48:56.100 at least hire white guys

00:48:57.060 to do it.

00:48:57.660 Yeah.

00:48:57.960 Hire two black guys

00:48:58.720 to attack him,

00:48:59.840 pour bleach on him.

00:49:00.900 They just so happen

00:49:01.460 to have a rope on them

00:49:02.880 that they now claim

00:49:04.360 they put on his face,

00:49:05.200 not around his neck

00:49:06.320 as he was later found wearing

00:49:07.460 because he really wanted

00:49:08.140 the police to see

00:49:08.660 where it was around his neck.

00:49:09.720 He just like,

00:49:10.260 you know,

00:49:10.720 years of old.

00:49:13.340 So he's filed an appeal.

00:49:14.680 He's claiming everything

00:49:15.360 but the kitchen sink.

00:49:16.280 He's claiming

00:49:17.180 double jeopardy

00:49:18.620 because he had originally

00:49:19.340 struck a deal

00:49:20.040 with a prosecutor

00:49:21.260 who was biased

00:49:22.920 and instead they brought

00:49:24.160 in a special prosecutor

00:49:24.920 to go after him

00:49:25.580 and all sorts of things

00:49:26.260 that are not going anywhere.

00:49:27.440 But he doesn't want

00:49:27.900 to have to serve

00:49:28.260 that jail time.

00:49:29.600 And Fox Nation,

00:49:30.740 meantime,

00:49:31.060 has taken another

00:49:31.600 close look at the case

00:49:32.780 and they have gotten

00:49:34.200 the two brothers

00:49:35.060 who he hired

00:49:35.960 to do the fake attack,

00:49:37.540 which again,

00:49:38.160 Jussie claimed to trial.

00:49:39.260 They were real

00:49:39.800 and that they were lying

00:49:40.580 when they said

00:49:40.920 it was a fake attack

00:49:41.560 to go on the record.

00:49:44.640 And M.

00:49:45.100 Bola,

00:49:45.760 they call him Bola

00:49:46.460 and Ola Bingo,

00:49:48.340 they call him Ola Osandario.

00:49:50.880 The thing happened

00:49:51.740 in January 2019.

00:49:52.880 They helped this Empire actor

00:49:54.200 stage his hate crime

00:49:55.120 and they testified

00:49:56.180 against him ultimately.

00:49:57.440 They got two years probation

00:49:58.380 and a small fine

00:49:59.520 because they turned

00:50:00.060 state's evidence on him

00:50:00.920 and he was sentenced to jail.

00:50:03.300 Now,

00:50:04.220 they give this interview

00:50:05.180 to Fox Nation

00:50:05.900 in which they go back

00:50:06.880 to the crime scene,

00:50:08.320 the alleged scene

00:50:08.800 of the crime,

00:50:09.320 2 a.m.

00:50:09.780 by a subway station,

00:50:11.020 Subway,

00:50:11.320 the sandwich,

00:50:12.380 in the middle of the night

00:50:13.520 in Chicago,

00:50:14.300 freezing cold winter

00:50:14.940 and show us

00:50:15.740 how it went down.

00:50:16.920 Look at this.

00:50:18.900 He was not there.

00:50:20.380 So we were like,

00:50:21.360 damn,

00:50:21.740 what do we do?

00:50:22.880 But we didn't have

00:50:23.680 no way of contacting him.

00:50:25.260 He had no way

00:50:25.860 of contacting us.

00:50:27.040 So we waited here

00:50:27.920 for about,

00:50:28.620 what,

00:50:29.380 four minutes?

00:50:30.140 It was about four minutes.

00:50:31.160 Roughly four minutes.

00:50:31.700 But it felt like forever.

00:50:33.320 Because it was cold

00:50:34.220 as balls.

00:50:35.700 He turned around,

00:50:37.100 looked at us,

00:50:38.160 and that's when

00:50:38.680 we started yelling

00:50:39.480 the famous slurs

00:50:42.040 he wanted us to yell.

00:50:43.700 It's MAGA country.

00:50:45.500 And then he said,

00:50:46.440 what did you say to me?

00:50:47.860 And then that's when

00:50:48.820 I threw the first punch

00:50:50.200 at him.

00:50:51.480 I held the blow

00:50:52.900 because I didn't want

00:50:53.600 to hurt him,

00:50:54.160 of course.

00:50:54.840 So I made it look real,

00:50:56.480 but I held it.

00:50:58.040 Then we started tussling,

00:50:59.660 moving around,

00:51:01.080 and then I threw him

00:51:01.920 to the ground.

00:51:02.940 He wanted it to look

00:51:03.980 like he fought back.

00:51:05.560 I used my knuckle

00:51:06.680 and gave him a noogie.

00:51:08.260 So I went like this.

00:51:09.600 Why did I do that?

00:51:12.680 To give him a scar,

00:51:14.060 to give him a mark,

00:51:15.220 to make it look real

00:51:16.220 like he really did

00:51:17.420 get his ass beat.

00:51:18.940 After I did that,

00:51:20.460 I fake kicked him.

00:51:21.520 I don't know

00:51:21.900 what he was doing.

00:51:22.780 I wasn't paying attention.

00:51:23.560 That's where I came around

00:51:24.940 with the bleach,

00:51:26.100 the infamous bleach

00:51:27.180 in the hot sauce bottle,

00:51:29.340 poured it on his shirt.

00:51:30.840 Then I finally put

00:51:32.140 the rope around his face.

00:51:33.520 I did not put it

00:51:34.280 around his neck.

00:51:35.020 I just placed it

00:51:35.700 on his face,

00:51:36.520 and that's when

00:51:37.260 we took off.

00:51:40.640 Is that not the greatest

00:51:41.660 thing you've ever seen?

00:51:42.920 That's the best recreation

00:51:44.120 in the history of television.

00:51:46.380 Whoever the producer

00:51:47.600 of that is,

00:51:48.460 I want you to email me

00:51:49.620 because I want to

00:51:50.380 nominate you for an Emmy

00:51:51.520 because getting them

00:51:52.500 to do that

00:51:53.120 was the best idea

00:51:54.320 I've ever seen.

00:51:55.080 I was like,

00:51:55.520 no, there's nobody there.

00:51:56.920 Just go and do the fight scene

00:51:58.780 by yourselves

00:51:59.560 across the street.

00:52:00.280 We'll shoot it

00:52:00.580 from across the street,

00:52:01.320 which is an amazing thing.

00:52:02.720 And then the best quote,

00:52:03.940 and he keeps on saying

00:52:04.620 the famous bleach,

00:52:05.620 the famous things we said.

00:52:07.200 The new famous line is,

00:52:09.020 it was cold as balls,

00:52:10.380 which is...

00:52:12.680 Holy cow.

00:52:14.840 I love these guys.

00:52:16.360 Better actors

00:52:17.160 than Jussie Smollett,

00:52:18.100 by the way.

00:52:18.600 Yes, right.

00:52:19.500 Jussie Smollett,

00:52:20.260 who was the actor

00:52:20.880 who wanted attention

00:52:21.720 on Empire,

00:52:22.700 and what they said was

00:52:24.000 he wanted to make it

00:52:25.300 look like,

00:52:25.800 they go on to say,

00:52:27.040 he wanted to make it

00:52:28.580 look like he fought back.

00:52:29.960 That was very important

00:52:31.280 for him.

00:52:32.220 This whole thing

00:52:33.240 was about his image.

00:52:35.260 Here he was,

00:52:35.700 I don't know which

00:52:36.120 soundbite this is

00:52:36.780 that we have,

00:52:37.160 but here he was

00:52:37.840 not long ago

00:52:39.780 talking about him

00:52:41.180 being innocent.

00:52:42.820 Oh,

00:52:43.020 and he's not suicidal either.

00:52:45.780 I am not suicidal.

00:52:48.340 I am innocent

00:52:49.220 and I am not suicidal.

00:52:51.200 If I did this,

00:52:52.320 then it means

00:52:52.700 that I stuck my fist

00:52:53.800 in the fears

00:52:54.560 of black Americans

00:52:55.740 in this country

00:52:56.280 for over 400 years

00:52:57.300 and the fears

00:52:57.980 of the LGBTQ community.

00:52:59.740 Your Honor,

00:53:00.120 I respect you

00:53:00.840 and I respect the jury,

00:53:01.860 but I did not do this

00:53:03.220 and I am not suicidal.

00:53:04.980 And if anything happens

00:53:05.940 to me when I go in there,

00:53:07.520 I did not do it to myself.

00:53:09.280 And you must all know that.

00:53:12.400 I respect you,

00:53:13.720 Your Honor.

00:53:14.240 I respect your decision.

00:53:16.140 Jail time.

00:53:19.960 I am not suicidal.

00:53:21.420 I am not suicidal.

00:53:23.180 Stop laughing about black people.

00:53:24.340 I am not suicidal

00:53:25.640 and I am innocent.

00:53:27.260 I could have said

00:53:27.920 that I was guilty

00:53:28.600 a long time ago.

00:53:31.000 He's got the black power

00:53:32.260 I've never seen that.

00:53:34.180 What a nerve case.

00:53:36.180 He's such a liar.

00:53:37.040 He's literally doing

00:53:38.920 a black power salute

00:53:40.300 on the way out

00:53:41.000 screaming I'm not suicidal.

00:53:43.060 Not I'm innocent,

00:53:44.100 by the way.

00:53:45.000 I'm not.

00:53:45.440 He did say that at one point,

00:53:46.680 but the thing he's repeating

00:53:47.560 over and over

00:53:48.100 is I'm not suicidal

00:53:49.220 because he's also

00:53:50.220 a crazy conspiracy theorist

00:53:51.480 that he might get killed

00:53:52.300 in jail,

00:53:52.880 but it's going to make

00:53:54.240 to be look like

00:53:54.900 a Jeffrey Epstein suicide.

00:53:56.220 It's like,

00:53:56.520 dude,

00:53:57.060 no one cares about you.

00:53:58.500 No one knew about you before

00:53:59.940 and no one knew

00:54:01.180 what Empire was.

00:54:02.500 Sorry.

00:54:03.160 Maybe the other people did,

00:54:04.380 but I don't know.

00:54:04.960 I think it's a bit

00:54:05.320 of an own goal,

00:54:06.340 as they say,

00:54:07.040 to compare yourself

00:54:07.960 to Jeffrey Epstein.

00:54:09.300 Yeah, yeah.

00:54:09.960 The whole public sympathy

00:54:11.340 kind of thing.

00:54:12.600 It's not.

00:54:13.140 Well, he got off

00:54:14.000 for a little bit,

00:54:14.700 so, you know.

00:54:15.960 So he was sent

00:54:16.600 to 150 days,

00:54:18.000 150 days in prison

00:54:19.780 and still hasn't

00:54:21.300 had to serve them.

00:54:22.200 He wanted to be out

00:54:23.520 on appeal and so on,

00:54:24.520 but I don't know

00:54:25.020 whether he's ever

00:54:25.500 actually going to

00:54:26.080 have to serve this,

00:54:26.640 but it's so funny to see.

00:54:28.320 You know,

00:54:28.500 you remember we deconstructed

00:54:29.980 the Robin Roberts

00:54:30.800 interview of Jesse.

00:54:31.720 She was totally sympathetic,

00:54:35.180 not even a hint

00:54:36.300 of skepticism.

00:54:37.900 I mean,

00:54:38.240 I like Robin Roberts,

00:54:39.420 but that was an embarrassment

00:54:40.540 of an interview

00:54:41.380 and just wasn't

00:54:42.200 doing her job at all.

00:54:43.160 And it's a continuation,

00:54:44.860 frankly,

00:54:45.160 of our first hour theme,

00:54:46.640 which is,

00:54:47.360 where is the skepticism

00:54:48.300 amongst the media,

00:54:49.740 amongst the general public

00:54:50.960 when allegations are made

00:54:52.680 that tap into

00:54:53.580 certain narratives,

00:54:54.820 right?

00:54:55.360 Women are oftentimes

00:54:57.460 the victims

00:54:58.320 of sexual assaults

00:54:59.340 on college campuses

00:55:00.140 and elsewhere.

00:55:01.080 It's a it's a it's

00:55:01.960 an epidemic

00:55:02.480 that we're having

00:55:03.560 to deal with.

00:55:04.480 Black people

00:55:05.260 in modern day America

00:55:06.540 do randomly get attacked

00:55:08.140 with nooses and bleach

00:55:09.420 and people shouting

00:55:10.860 this is MAGA country

00:55:11.800 in deep Chicago

00:55:12.640 during the polar vortex.

00:55:14.440 And those stories,

00:55:15.300 too,

00:55:15.440 should be covered

00:55:15.980 without doubt.

00:55:17.660 Otherwise,

00:55:18.160 you're showing your bigotry.

00:55:19.540 And even now,

00:55:20.340 we're trying to pretend

00:55:21.080 that like we have

00:55:21.860 to cover his appeal

00:55:22.580 like it's a real thing,

00:55:23.540 like he's got a real

00:55:24.160 when you've got

00:55:24.820 these two brothers

00:55:25.460 who could you find

00:55:26.140 a more credible witness

00:55:27.160 telling you

00:55:27.920 what actually went down?

00:55:29.040 Two muscle bound

00:55:31.040 Nigerian guys.

00:55:32.680 I mean,

00:55:33.040 if they say go

00:55:33.760 and get a reverse mortgage,

00:55:34.900 I'm in it.

00:55:35.540 Oh, my God.

00:55:36.600 Whatever pills

00:55:37.340 they want to sell me,

00:55:38.180 I'm buying.

00:55:38.860 But I love it.

00:55:39.860 The first bit of skepticism

00:55:41.240 should have been like,

00:55:42.200 this is MAGA country.

00:55:43.380 No, it's not.

00:55:44.220 It's downtown Chicago.

00:55:45.320 You dummies.

00:55:45.980 No.

00:55:46.260 But the greatest thing

00:55:46.920 about this is go

00:55:47.700 and find it.

00:55:48.360 I saw this the other day.

00:55:49.380 The original tweet

00:55:50.400 from The New York Times

00:55:51.380 that was no skepticism.

00:55:52.800 There was no alleged.

00:55:53.780 It was like Jussie Smollett,

00:55:56.020 actor from Empire,

00:55:57.620 attacked by MAGA lunatics.

00:56:00.260 And it reminded me

00:56:01.080 that right after

00:56:01.920 Donald Trump was elected,

00:56:03.180 this was a supply

00:56:03.900 and demand problem,

00:56:04.680 of course.

00:56:05.200 The demand for stories

00:56:06.840 about a rise in hate

00:56:08.160 greatly outstripped the supply.

00:56:11.140 So there was a whole bunch

00:56:12.200 of these attacks

00:56:13.740 that were fake.

00:56:14.620 And there were other ones

00:56:15.460 that were not proven

00:56:16.080 to be fake,

00:56:16.680 but were clearly fake.

00:56:18.340 And then one of the things

00:56:18.880 I thought was funny

00:56:19.360 right down the street

00:56:20.080 from where I was

00:56:20.720 in Brooklyn at the time,

00:56:21.840 there was a park

00:56:24.280 that I think was named

00:56:25.000 after Adam Yauk,

00:56:26.440 one of the Beastie Boys

00:56:27.060 who passed away.

00:56:28.340 And there were swastikas

00:56:29.180 drawn on it,

00:56:30.120 like the day after.

00:56:31.380 And it was really interesting

00:56:32.200 because these Nazis

00:56:33.700 didn't know which way

00:56:34.820 the swastikas went.

00:56:36.060 They had them backwards.

00:56:37.060 And I was like,

00:56:37.480 that's the first bit

00:56:38.180 of skepticism.

00:56:39.020 And it reminded me

00:56:39.980 of Dave Chappelle's bit

00:56:41.160 about this,

00:56:41.700 which is one of the funniest

00:56:42.440 things I've ever heard,

00:56:43.480 when he's like,

00:56:44.060 we knew he was lying

00:56:44.980 immediately.

00:56:46.340 Immediately.

00:56:47.060 And I watched

00:56:48.360 for days,

00:56:49.580 weeks,

00:56:50.140 of people reporting

00:56:51.840 credulously.

00:56:52.320 I once sent Matt

00:56:53.920 and Camille

00:56:54.280 this thing from NPR

00:56:55.960 that was a half an hour

00:56:57.140 in which no skepticism

00:56:59.080 was ever evinced

00:57:01.220 on this case at all.

00:57:02.300 And people just saying

00:57:02.960 that this happens

00:57:03.540 all the time.

00:57:04.440 And this is just life

00:57:05.740 in Trump's America.

00:57:06.760 Again,

00:57:07.020 it's the narrative.

00:57:07.840 They wanted to prove it.

00:57:09.020 And so therefore,

00:57:09.620 you have to suspend

00:57:11.260 all disbelief,

00:57:12.320 all these things

00:57:12.920 that are clearly fake

00:57:13.680 about it.

00:57:14.020 You have to push to the side

00:57:14.920 because the narrative

00:57:15.360 is more important.

00:57:16.640 We have an ongoing

00:57:17.340 text.

00:57:18.420 That was pre-George Floyd.

00:57:19.500 It would be even worse

00:57:21.800 in this direction

00:57:22.380 post-George Floyd.

00:57:23.160 Go ahead, Matt.

00:57:23.720 Yeah.

00:57:24.560 We have an ongoing

00:57:25.680 text thread

00:57:26.320 between the three of us

00:57:27.300 on the Fifth Column podcast

00:57:28.740 as we did at the time

00:57:30.680 with this specific case.

00:57:32.020 I think for us,

00:57:33.000 the equivalent

00:57:34.140 to the Moynihan

00:57:35.220 understanding

00:57:35.820 that the bottle of beer

00:57:36.960 doesn't break

00:57:37.460 on the person's forehead

00:57:38.600 and all that,

00:57:40.340 we had a pretty good indication,

00:57:42.420 just intuition,

00:57:43.980 that a famous-ish actor

00:57:46.860 is not going to go foraging

00:57:48.500 for subway sandwiches

00:57:49.800 at two o'clock

00:57:50.860 in the morning

00:57:51.480 during a polar vortex

00:57:52.940 in Chicago.

00:57:54.020 That didn't seem

00:57:54.800 like a likely thing

00:57:55.820 that was going to be happening

00:57:56.800 anytime soon.

00:57:58.620 What I think

00:57:59.800 this demonstrates

00:58:00.400 is that the people

00:58:02.000 who claim to believe

00:58:03.660 and maybe they do believe

00:58:05.920 to some degree

00:58:07.480 that we live

00:58:08.680 amidst

00:58:09.640 systemic racism,

00:58:11.540 people who use

00:58:11.960 the word white supremacy

00:58:12.760 not to talk about

00:58:13.440 people in hoods,

00:58:14.340 but to talk about

00:58:14.840 the overall structure

00:58:16.040 that is fundamentally unfair,

00:58:18.980 people who say that

00:58:19.900 somehow in their hearts

00:58:21.460 or at least many

00:58:22.280 of the people

00:58:22.640 who will nod their heads

00:58:23.560 at that time

00:58:24.060 don't believe it

00:58:24.880 because it's not enough.

00:58:26.340 That's an argument.

00:58:27.260 It's an argument

00:58:27.920 that I disagree with

00:58:29.100 and I think

00:58:29.600 or it's certainly

00:58:30.520 a line of analysis

00:58:31.440 that therefore

00:58:32.780 if you're going to take it

00:58:33.880 to its logical extreme,

00:58:35.980 you're going to say,

00:58:36.760 okay,

00:58:37.080 so minimum wage

00:58:38.180 is systematically racist.

00:58:39.720 For example,

00:58:40.540 there's a lot of

00:58:41.020 for the gun control

00:58:41.880 is systematically racist.

00:58:43.200 They don't tend to go

00:58:44.380 full hog

00:58:45.700 with that kind of thing

00:58:46.580 but the reason

00:58:48.000 why you have

00:58:48.440 so many hoaxes

00:58:49.540 is exactly because

00:58:51.000 that supply and demand

00:58:52.000 problem.

00:58:52.740 You need to have

00:58:53.740 splashy indications,

00:58:56.060 splashy news events

00:58:57.160 to show that seed

00:58:58.280 this is just simmering

00:58:59.320 right there

00:58:59.720 below the surface

00:59:00.440 ready to be activated

00:59:01.740 at any given time.

00:59:03.320 Part of that

00:59:04.100 shows you

00:59:05.260 or allegedly shows you

00:59:07.400 that we haven't

00:59:09.160 made progress

00:59:09.780 over the last 50 years,

00:59:11.040 10 years,

00:59:11.640 whatever the number is,

00:59:13.300 that it's just always

00:59:14.640 it's in fact

00:59:15.360 maybe getting worse

00:59:16.060 after all we did

00:59:16.720 elect Donald Trump

00:59:17.420 and I have some sympathy

00:59:18.600 with that line of argument

00:59:19.860 to be clear

00:59:20.680 but I don't have sympathy

00:59:21.900 with the argument

00:59:22.460 that America

00:59:23.360 is just a seating hotbed

00:59:24.620 of racism

00:59:25.460 at given times.

00:59:26.820 You can make that

00:59:27.540 structural argument

00:59:28.400 and you're going to find

00:59:29.700 a lot of people

00:59:30.200 raising their eyebrows

00:59:30.960 because it doesn't

00:59:31.500 make intuitive sense

00:59:32.300 because when they

00:59:32.740 hear a phrase

00:59:34.440 like white supremacy

00:59:35.320 they're like,

00:59:36.060 huh, that's weird.

00:59:36.980 I've never really met

00:59:37.920 a white supremacist

00:59:38.940 and it goes

00:59:40.020 wise in the face

00:59:41.500 of everything

00:59:41.860 that I've heard

00:59:42.440 but the reason

00:59:43.440 why we have

00:59:43.780 so many of these

00:59:44.440 swastikas here

00:59:45.580 and this and that

00:59:46.300 and, you know,

00:59:48.000 probably there's been

00:59:49.280 at least 25 of these

00:59:50.600 that we've texted

00:59:51.400 each other,

00:59:51.860 nope, this one's

00:59:52.520 not going to pan out

00:59:53.460 and they never do.

00:59:54.500 They never do.

00:59:55.420 Particularly when

00:59:55.980 there's a noose involved.

00:59:57.580 That's always the one.

00:59:58.500 That's always the giveaway.

00:59:59.280 There's always this news thing

01:00:00.080 is the tell.

01:00:02.040 But to...

01:00:02.840 We had a noose

01:00:03.440 in Gilroy, California,

01:00:04.800 didn't we?

01:00:05.100 Yes, just this week.

01:00:06.260 This week turned out

01:00:07.680 to be a guy

01:00:08.820 who was using...

01:00:10.400 I think who was

01:00:11.020 an immigrant

01:00:12.500 using the rope

01:00:13.900 to cut down

01:00:14.500 a branch of a tree

01:00:15.300 but it was left there

01:00:16.460 and they're like,

01:00:17.400 oh, this is clearly racist.

01:00:18.760 They looked at the footage

01:00:19.700 and it was just a guy

01:00:20.700 cutting off a branch of a tree.

01:00:23.020 But, you know,

01:00:23.460 I mean,

01:00:23.720 you have to make everybody

01:00:24.740 white supremacist

01:00:25.600 when people understand

01:00:26.840 white supremacy

01:00:27.480 to meet David Duke

01:00:28.360 because if you don't

01:00:29.300 interact with them,

01:00:30.600 people start

01:00:31.300 not trusting you.

01:00:32.760 When you...

01:00:33.260 Anything that you come across

01:00:34.420 is, you know,

01:00:35.180 the new Jurassic Park movie

01:00:36.620 is racist.

01:00:37.660 People are like,

01:00:38.300 you know, what?

01:00:38.980 Seriously?

01:00:39.600 So then you need

01:00:40.600 these things

01:00:41.220 that are manifestations

01:00:42.860 of violence,

01:00:43.700 particularly racially based.

01:00:45.960 I mean,

01:00:46.120 even the George Floyd thing,

01:00:47.060 which I think

01:00:47.440 is a pretty interesting thing

01:00:48.480 when you look back on it,

01:00:49.840 out of the heat

01:00:50.520 of that moment

01:00:51.140 was that the prosecution

01:00:52.280 never brought up race

01:00:53.580 during the prosecution

01:00:55.100 of Derek Chauvin.

01:00:56.100 It did not come up.

01:00:57.480 If you don't believe

01:00:58.000 you go and look at it.

01:00:58.620 It was a successful project.

01:01:00.560 You didn't need it

01:01:01.280 and it's not

01:01:01.960 they were saying like,

01:01:02.580 ah, this is too explosive.

01:01:03.920 They didn't have evidence of it.

01:01:05.420 It was presumed

01:01:06.440 and they,

01:01:07.240 obviously in a court of law,

01:01:08.760 understand that

01:01:09.560 they would leave

01:01:10.060 something like this out

01:01:11.360 because there's no way

01:01:12.380 to prove something like that.

01:01:13.960 But in the discourse,

01:01:14.940 it changed life, right?

01:01:16.900 Same thing with Kyle Rittenhouse

01:01:17.900 where you had the,

01:01:19.120 you had Joe Biden

01:01:20.020 calling him a white supremacist,

01:01:21.920 none of which

01:01:22.920 was ever proved

01:01:24.060 or introduced.

01:01:24.960 There is absolutely

01:01:25.600 no evidence of that

01:01:26.480 and there was no apology

01:01:28.260 to Kyle Rittenhouse.

01:01:28.940 Like the,

01:01:29.260 and by the way,

01:01:30.580 you know,

01:01:30.800 the two men

01:01:32.280 I'm trying to remember

01:01:33.720 all the facts,

01:01:34.340 but you had all the media

01:01:35.660 claiming that he shot

01:01:36.660 black men, right?

01:01:37.820 And it was like,

01:01:38.500 yeah, a bunch of people

01:01:39.200 did say that, yeah.

01:01:40.340 Right?

01:01:40.760 And anyway,

01:01:41.300 and then they weren't,

01:01:42.020 but to two points

01:01:44.920 that at one point

01:01:45.580 that I wanted to make

01:01:46.080 and then to advance it.

01:01:48.220 Phil Houston,

01:01:49.200 human lie detector,

01:01:50.500 CIA,

01:01:51.240 would say that

01:01:52.320 that Jussie Smollett's

01:01:53.580 resort to,

01:01:54.560 if I did that,

01:01:55.680 if I'm not innocent,

01:01:56.940 it would mean

01:01:57.900 I'm offending

01:01:58.540 the black community

01:01:59.220 and the LGBTQ community.

01:02:01.060 That's what we call

01:02:01.680 convincing behavior.

01:02:03.500 And remember,

01:02:04.060 OJ's book was called

01:02:05.100 If I Did It.

01:02:06.420 Right, right, right.

01:02:07.580 But a truth teller,

01:02:08.600 if you were wrongly accused

01:02:10.800 of perpetuating

01:02:11.780 some sort of a race hoax,

01:02:13.720 you would stand up

01:02:14.660 and be like,

01:02:15.120 this is bullshit.

01:02:16.200 I did not do it.

01:02:18.020 You know,

01:02:18.320 I've been wrongly convicted.

01:02:19.940 You would not be like,

01:02:21.140 and if I did it,

01:02:22.240 it would be so offensive

01:02:23.480 to the following groups

01:02:24.480 that I've spent my life

01:02:25.580 representing

01:02:26.100 and trying to help it

01:02:27.060 and I would never

01:02:28.060 and I,

01:02:28.680 you know,

01:02:29.040 like,

01:02:29.520 anyway,

01:02:29.700 it's just an interesting thing

01:02:30.560 to watch a liar in action

01:02:32.020 because it gives us new

01:02:32.960 things to think about

01:02:34.060 when we are subjected

01:02:35.040 to somebody else's lies.

01:02:36.780 Okay,

01:02:36.940 so what you're saying

01:02:37.900 about how,

01:02:38.680 you know,

01:02:39.420 the whole narrative,

01:02:40.260 it's,

01:02:40.660 it is the hammer

01:02:41.720 looking for the nail,

01:02:42.640 right?

01:02:42.940 And there aren't

01:02:43.320 that many nails

01:02:43.960 and so they've got

01:02:44.480 to invent white supremacy

01:02:45.500 here,

01:02:46.560 there and everywhere.

01:02:47.860 Ties in nicely

01:02:48.640 what we've seen

01:02:49.300 happening in the world

01:02:50.400 of DEI.

01:02:51.720 Robin DiAngelo

01:02:52.600 and her friends

01:02:53.720 in this community

01:02:54.480 are getting depressed.

01:02:55.980 They're getting downtrodden

01:02:57.300 and they're losing hope

01:02:58.760 that their weird,

01:03:00.420 racist messaging

01:03:01.400 is somehow

01:03:02.380 not catching on.

01:03:03.920 The,

01:03:04.400 the,

01:03:04.640 the explosion

01:03:05.640 of her book

01:03:06.280 White Fragility

01:03:06.940 after George Floyd

01:03:07.980 had been written

01:03:08.440 before George Floyd

01:03:09.260 but it exploded,

01:03:09.860 exploded after

01:03:10.580 and all of the money

01:03:12.420 she made

01:03:13.000 doing Zoom calls

01:03:13.980 during the pandemic

01:03:14.800 about how white people

01:03:15.980 are too fragile

01:03:16.700 to understand the truth

01:03:17.780 which is we're all racist

01:03:18.820 and so on.

01:03:20.100 Apparently,

01:03:20.680 corporations

01:03:21.120 are not responding

01:03:22.640 well to it.

01:03:23.560 Now she,

01:03:24.720 this,

01:03:25.020 this,

01:03:25.640 this is from FAIR,

01:03:26.900 Foundation Against

01:03:27.600 Intelligence,

01:03:28.380 Intolerance and Racism.

01:03:29.820 They produced this

01:03:31.520 in a Substack article

01:03:32.300 by Joseph Klein

01:03:33.040 and they,

01:03:34.120 they noticed

01:03:34.740 that there was this,

01:03:35.840 I don't know,

01:03:37.740 a webinar,

01:03:38.320 I guess,

01:03:38.660 called Racial Justice,

01:03:40.040 The Next Frontier

01:03:40.860 and it included

01:03:41.720 Robin DiAngelo

01:03:42.900 and DEI consultants

01:03:44.340 Marisha and Reese

01:03:46.960 and Mary Frances Winters

01:03:48.400 and it's amazing

01:03:50.020 because they are

01:03:51.700 upset about how

01:03:54.060 no one wants them

01:03:55.800 anymore.

01:03:56.780 Listen to this.

01:03:59.480 So we thought

01:04:00.380 maybe in 2020

01:04:01.740 we had a movement

01:04:02.620 and then we said,

01:04:04.140 well,

01:04:04.560 let's hope it's not

01:04:05.600 just a moment

01:04:06.280 and now we're saying

01:04:07.440 perhaps it's a memory

01:04:08.360 because

01:04:08.920 the system

01:04:11.160 is just so entrenched

01:04:12.240 and it's so difficult

01:04:13.160 to even move

01:04:14.540 just a little bit

01:04:15.300 and here's what

01:04:16.340 I'm hearing a lot.

01:04:17.680 We hear this a lot.

01:04:19.980 Our leaders

01:04:20.880 are too uncomfortable

01:04:22.280 with this.

01:04:23.120 We've actually

01:04:23.560 lost contracts

01:04:24.920 when people have said

01:04:25.980 we want to do

01:04:26.500 anti-racism work

01:04:27.400 and we go in

01:04:28.100 and they say,

01:04:28.900 oh,

01:04:29.560 this is what you mean

01:04:30.700 by anti-racism work?

01:04:31.940 Oh,

01:04:32.380 we didn't,

01:04:33.580 that's not what

01:04:34.020 we signed up for.

01:04:35.580 So yeah,

01:04:36.480 so you see that

01:04:37.360 that fragility

01:04:38.260 centering white comfort

01:04:40.560 is so alive

01:04:42.140 and well.

01:04:43.200 Just last week

01:04:44.020 I heard something

01:04:44.920 like we're not ready

01:04:46.880 for justice

01:04:47.660 in our work

01:04:48.720 even though

01:04:49.380 that's what we,

01:04:50.200 that's what they signed up for.

01:04:51.620 Our board members

01:04:52.640 are just not,

01:04:53.340 are just not ready for that.

01:04:54.780 And so white people

01:04:55.400 have to build their stamina

01:04:56.440 and I'm thinking

01:04:58.540 for now

01:04:59.860 if an organization

01:05:01.320 is saying

01:05:01.900 we're not ready

01:05:02.740 I think they should be

01:05:03.980 really honest about that

01:05:05.380 and they should be

01:05:06.300 explicit about that

01:05:07.520 and then people

01:05:08.140 can make conscious decisions

01:05:09.460 about whether they want

01:05:10.280 to support that organization

01:05:11.640 but right now

01:05:12.900 we have this,

01:05:14.060 you know,

01:05:14.540 proclaimed investment

01:05:16.920 with absolutely

01:05:17.860 no true investment.

01:05:21.340 Hallelujah.

01:05:22.260 They're failing

01:05:22.880 and they're being rejected.

01:05:24.940 Yeah.

01:05:25.780 Yeah.

01:05:26.140 And they're claiming

01:05:27.460 the old

01:05:28.460 Friedrich Engels

01:05:29.700 expression of

01:05:30.740 false consciousness.

01:05:32.000 The reason why

01:05:32.780 the working class

01:05:33.620 is not with

01:05:34.320 the Communist Party movement

01:05:35.500 is that

01:05:36.640 they don't understand it.

01:05:38.320 And it's not because

01:05:38.980 they disagree with us,

01:05:39.920 it's because

01:05:40.380 they've been convinced

01:05:41.180 by the capitalist press

01:05:42.340 that this is what was said,

01:05:43.600 you know,

01:05:43.920 in the late 19th

01:05:45.440 and 20th century

01:05:46.460 why they couldn't get people

01:05:47.600 in the working class on board.

01:05:48.960 It's the exact same thing

01:05:50.180 that is being said.

01:05:51.300 It's not,

01:05:51.860 no one is considering

01:05:52.640 at some point

01:05:53.480 that people

01:05:54.420 in a work context

01:05:55.600 are perfectly happy

01:05:56.640 and, you know,

01:05:57.100 as a word,

01:05:57.620 I'm perfectly happy

01:05:58.320 if at some point

01:05:59.380 the HR person says,

01:06:00.620 you know,

01:06:01.040 you can't racially discriminate

01:06:02.800 because it's against federal law,

01:06:04.260 it's immoral

01:06:05.280 and it's wrong

01:06:06.140 and it creates

01:06:06.680 a terrible work environment,

01:06:08.220 all of which is true.

01:06:09.080 But that's what people sign up for

01:06:11.560 and they're saying

01:06:12.180 they can't for one second

01:06:13.860 imagine that they are extremists

01:06:16.620 and they are.

01:06:17.680 They need the stuff.

01:06:18.540 It's extreme.

01:06:19.540 Nobody agrees with this stuff.

01:06:20.920 If you were to actually

01:06:21.540 put Robin DiAngelo's quotes

01:06:23.280 in front of random people

01:06:25.140 and poll them,

01:06:26.200 you'd get 90%,

01:06:27.360 I am guessing,

01:06:28.160 that would say

01:06:28.520 this stuff

01:06:29.180 is absolutely bonkers.

01:06:31.760 So when they say

01:06:32.520 and they can never,

01:06:33.460 ever confront,

01:06:34.420 it's racist too,

01:06:35.640 they can never confront

01:06:36.720 that they might be wrong

01:06:37.700 or they might,

01:06:38.900 you know,

01:06:39.140 be processing this stuff

01:06:40.680 in a totally bizarro,

01:06:42.420 radical, extreme way.

01:06:43.740 They say,

01:06:44.380 oh, you know,

01:06:45.020 there's some white,

01:06:46.340 and again,

01:06:46.740 this is the racist thing

01:06:47.480 because you're actually saying

01:06:48.060 an entire race

01:06:48.900 has this immutable characteristic.

01:06:51.680 It's white fragility.

01:06:53.240 It's white discomfort.

01:06:54.740 We have to destroy

01:06:55.840 white discomfort.

01:06:57.100 It's like,

01:06:57.520 no, no, no.

01:06:58.000 They just think

01:06:58.520 you're fucking crazy.

01:06:59.620 I'm sorry.

01:07:00.000 I just swore.

01:07:00.880 No, it's okay.

01:07:01.620 It's only me and my mom at Lent.

01:07:03.300 Oh, is your mom,

01:07:04.420 sorry,

01:07:05.300 Megyn Kelly's mom,

01:07:05.960 I apologize.

01:07:06.520 No, my mom said,

01:07:07.020 you know,

01:07:07.460 you swear a lot.

01:07:08.360 She said,

01:07:08.680 if you could just get rid

01:07:09.500 of the F-bomb,

01:07:10.120 she doesn't care about

01:07:10.660 you doing it.

01:07:11.400 It's me.

01:07:11.940 Oh, okay.

01:07:12.420 And so I agreed

01:07:13.020 to try for Lent.

01:07:13.940 So you're good.

01:07:14.640 You're fine.

01:07:16.340 Patrick's annoyed there.

01:07:17.640 Shouldn't you have

01:07:18.200 a little Irish solidarity

01:07:19.420 here in one hand?

01:07:20.180 You know what?

01:07:20.780 I'm saving that

01:07:21.860 for the last block.

01:07:22.820 If you must know,

01:07:23.540 there's going to be

01:07:24.000 a little exciting

01:07:24.900 St. Patrick's.

01:07:28.380 I've had the misfortune

01:07:29.940 both to live

01:07:30.960 in a universe

01:07:32.060 where these concepts

01:07:34.200 are constantly

01:07:35.480 thrumming around

01:07:36.400 in the New York City

01:07:36.980 school system

01:07:37.580 in my neighborhood

01:07:38.140 in Brooklyn

01:07:38.560 where there's like

01:07:39.500 an entire section

01:07:40.460 of the local bookstore

01:07:41.580 that's just like

01:07:42.280 Robin DiAngelo

01:07:43.040 and Abraham X.

01:07:43.800 Kendi and on and on

01:07:45.140 and on kids' books.

01:07:47.020 I've seen this stuff

01:07:47.980 for a while

01:07:48.380 and written about it

01:07:49.220 and Michael's

01:07:50.640 absolutely right

01:07:51.440 in that when

01:07:52.600 normal people

01:07:53.880 see this,

01:07:55.240 they're like,

01:07:55.500 what?

01:07:56.400 It's not just

01:07:57.380 the vocabulary

01:07:58.780 that is kind of crazy

01:08:00.960 and the

01:08:01.680 actually kind of

01:08:04.720 racist

01:08:05.660 or, you know,

01:08:07.500 just making

01:08:07.980 spectacular generalizations

01:08:09.640 on people

01:08:10.120 based on their

01:08:10.620 immutable characteristics

01:08:12.120 that strikes people

01:08:13.420 as strange

01:08:13.880 but also

01:08:14.440 there is no joy

01:08:15.900 at the end

01:08:16.320 of the rainbow.

01:08:17.300 Usually in the

01:08:17.940 self-help book

01:08:18.640 you're going to get

01:08:19.400 to a place

01:08:19.940 that's good.

01:08:20.880 The Robin DiAngelo

01:08:21.740 thing,

01:08:22.060 the only place

01:08:22.840 that you get to

01:08:23.560 is more DEI training.

01:08:24.940 You've got to do

01:08:25.280 more work,

01:08:25.860 more work,

01:08:26.360 spend more money

01:08:27.000 on the work.

01:08:28.160 I love the fact

01:08:28.780 that they're saying

01:08:29.580 that these organizations

01:08:31.120 said that they

01:08:31.700 are just not

01:08:32.520 frankly ready

01:08:33.180 to support justice.

01:08:34.280 They didn't say that.

01:08:35.600 That's not what they said.

01:08:36.760 What they probably said

01:08:37.980 was,

01:08:38.720 wow,

01:08:38.900 this is costing

01:08:39.400 a lot of money.

01:08:40.380 This is a pyramid scheme.

01:08:41.660 Crazy.

01:08:42.920 We started

01:08:44.520 the fifth column

01:08:45.960 in 2016

01:08:46.660 and we talked

01:08:48.200 a lot about

01:08:48.820 this stuff

01:08:49.180 at the beginning

01:08:49.620 because it was

01:08:50.020 really starting

01:08:50.860 to take off

01:08:51.520 and Camille

01:08:52.440 has a special

01:08:53.080 allergy towards this

01:08:54.120 and Michael

01:08:55.260 and I have

01:08:55.820 honed ours

01:08:57.000 over the years

01:08:57.540 too.

01:08:58.180 I would say,

01:08:59.000 Mike,

01:08:59.560 what would you say?

01:08:59.980 At least 250

01:09:01.220 detailed emails

01:09:02.500 and it might be

01:09:03.020 2,500.

01:09:04.560 Way more than that,

01:09:05.200 yeah.

01:09:05.540 From people

01:09:06.200 who,

01:09:07.120 you know,

01:09:07.300 one guy

01:09:07.840 who's an entrepreneur

01:09:08.580 at his own company,

01:09:09.880 his own small company,

01:09:11.060 was called

01:09:12.500 on the carpet

01:09:13.020 and like forced

01:09:13.820 to do some DEI

01:09:14.700 training.

01:09:15.120 People who work

01:09:16.220 in the military

01:09:16.760 and all these places,

01:09:17.740 they never expected

01:09:18.920 to be sat down.

01:09:20.120 They talk about

01:09:20.880 these things

01:09:21.440 and occasionally

01:09:22.380 they tell happy stories

01:09:24.500 where they had

01:09:25.000 an actual conversation

01:09:26.380 where they registered

01:09:27.440 individualistic

01:09:28.860 kind of complaints

01:09:29.860 about it

01:09:30.440 and, you know,

01:09:31.940 prompted discussions

01:09:32.920 but for the most part

01:09:33.840 they just kind of

01:09:34.740 sit on their hands,

01:09:35.760 shake their heads

01:09:36.420 and every normal person

01:09:37.700 in the room

01:09:38.300 is just checking

01:09:39.160 their watch

01:09:39.760 and ready for it to go.

01:09:41.240 So of course

01:09:41.660 you're going to lose

01:09:42.180 support for that

01:09:43.000 in any kind of

01:09:44.360 moment of economic

01:09:45.820 belt tightening

01:09:46.560 because you're bumming

01:09:47.780 people out.

01:09:48.520 You're not really

01:09:48.900 teaching them

01:09:49.580 and here's the

01:09:50.740 fun fact of it

01:09:52.600 is that

01:09:53.080 if you happen

01:09:53.820 to be from

01:09:54.460 a recognized

01:09:56.720 minority of any sort

01:09:58.300 chances are

01:09:59.420 you are then

01:10:00.300 going to be

01:10:01.020 like the Asian person

01:10:02.980 who has to now

01:10:03.900 organize a celebration

01:10:05.120 for the Lunar New Year

01:10:06.160 which you didn't care about.

01:10:07.640 What am I doing?

01:10:09.320 Like a couple

01:10:10.580 of gay dad friends

01:10:11.400 of mine

01:10:11.840 were like,

01:10:12.800 okay,

01:10:13.100 you're going to do

01:10:13.540 the gay workshop.

01:10:14.520 They're like,

01:10:14.720 no,

01:10:15.220 this is like a software company.

01:10:16.680 I'm going to do work.

01:10:17.700 My daughter's school

01:10:19.380 is like this.

01:10:20.840 It's always like

01:10:21.460 celebrating

01:10:21.840 Kazakh New Year

01:10:22.780 and I'm like,

01:10:23.180 are there any Kazakh

01:10:23.820 people there?

01:10:24.500 She's like,

01:10:24.640 no,

01:10:25.140 we just do everything.

01:10:26.120 My daughter said the same.

01:10:27.000 She's like hanging there

01:10:28.320 with her friends of color

01:10:29.620 and then the school

01:10:30.860 separates them

01:10:32.340 because they want to

01:10:33.340 shepherd off

01:10:33.900 the girls of color

01:10:34.800 to go be in their own

01:10:35.880 quote affinity group.

01:10:37.180 Meanwhile,

01:10:37.480 they were all together

01:10:38.500 the way we've always

01:10:40.320 envisioned,

01:10:40.840 the way MLK envisioned,

01:10:42.460 right?

01:10:42.620 Like no one's paying

01:10:43.360 attention to skin color

01:10:44.340 until the school is like,

01:10:45.980 you will pay attention

01:10:46.740 to it right now.

01:10:48.240 And that leads me

01:10:49.240 to the second sound bite

01:10:50.000 I wanted to run

01:10:50.640 for you guys

01:10:51.280 from this meeting

01:10:52.700 where Robin DiAngelo,

01:10:54.380 you tell me,

01:10:55.240 to me she sounds

01:10:56.060 an awful lot like

01:10:57.080 Scott Adams

01:10:58.200 in his statement

01:10:59.780 that got him canceled.

01:11:01.580 Okay?

01:11:02.020 There was international

01:11:03.100 outrage over what

01:11:04.060 Scott Adams said.

01:11:05.220 This is not that far

01:11:06.600 afield.

01:11:07.420 Here's Robin DiAngelo

01:11:08.980 on in

01:11:09.840 SOT 3,

01:11:11.360 sound bite 3.

01:11:12.080 I'm a big believer

01:11:14.800 in affinity space

01:11:15.980 and affinity work

01:11:17.240 and I think

01:11:18.100 people of color

01:11:18.620 need to get away

01:11:19.460 from white people

01:11:20.320 and have some

01:11:22.740 community

01:11:23.340 with each other.

01:11:26.180 Yeah.

01:11:26.940 Can you imagine

01:11:27.560 like saying that

01:11:29.460 about white people?

01:11:30.900 Oh,

01:11:31.100 I really think

01:11:31.720 white people

01:11:32.100 need to get away

01:11:33.060 from black people.

01:11:34.480 I mean,

01:11:34.640 that's basically

01:11:35.320 what Scott Adams said

01:11:36.460 and now he lost

01:11:37.640 his cartoon

01:11:38.120 and he was

01:11:39.420 condemned by everybody.

01:11:41.420 But you can say it

01:11:42.120 if you're Robin DiAngelo

01:11:43.000 the other way around.

01:11:44.340 Two things about that

01:11:45.260 is that he shouldn't

01:11:46.260 have lost his cartoon.

01:11:47.660 You should let the market

01:11:48.420 decide that.

01:11:49.360 And the second thing

01:11:50.020 is what he said

01:11:50.640 was stupid.

01:11:51.340 And I think everyone

01:11:52.320 should acknowledge that

01:11:53.120 because it is a mirror image

01:11:54.380 of what Robin DiAngelo says

01:11:56.200 because black people

01:11:57.480 should get away

01:11:57.860 from white people,

01:11:58.720 white people.

01:11:59.280 It's at this collectivization

01:12:01.240 of who people are

01:12:03.340 is the thing

01:12:04.000 that we hopefully

01:12:04.940 have been fighting against

01:12:05.920 unsuccessfully,

01:12:07.400 apparently,

01:12:07.960 for a number of years.

01:12:09.440 But, you know,

01:12:09.860 to Matt's point,

01:12:10.680 it is like,

01:12:11.340 you know,

01:12:11.640 we owe Robin DiAngelo,

01:12:14.220 Matt and I,

01:12:14.880 and Camille in particular,

01:12:16.560 a thank you

01:12:17.900 because the number

01:12:19.100 of emails that we get

01:12:20.040 that always start

01:12:20.940 with this preamble.

01:12:21.900 Matt,

01:12:22.100 tell me if I'm wrong

01:12:22.760 about this.

01:12:23.520 60, 70 percent,

01:12:24.560 they say,

01:12:25.280 hey,

01:12:25.580 I'm like a liberal.

01:12:27.120 You know,

01:12:27.240 I live in a city too.

01:12:28.140 I'm a Democrat.

01:12:28.900 But like,

01:12:29.360 what is going on?

01:12:31.200 And I found your podcast

01:12:32.420 and I'm like,

01:12:32.900 thank you,

01:12:33.320 Robin DiAngelo.

01:12:34.060 You've taken another person

01:12:35.460 and converted them

01:12:36.320 to sense

01:12:36.940 and brought them to us.

01:12:38.240 So that's been

01:12:38.860 the only positive thing

01:12:39.820 about it.

01:12:40.200 But people don't tend

01:12:41.840 to like,

01:12:42.300 particularly of a

01:12:42.820 generational thing,

01:12:44.020 because Megan,

01:12:45.040 Matt,

01:12:45.300 all of us

01:12:45.900 have come from a generation

01:12:46.880 that whether it was

01:12:48.040 effective or not,

01:12:49.060 it was the narrative

01:12:50.380 which was that

01:12:51.540 collectivization

01:12:52.280 of group,

01:12:53.280 you know,

01:12:53.680 characteristics

01:12:54.220 is wrong.

01:12:55.580 And why do we know

01:12:56.620 that's wrong?

01:12:57.220 Not because it's

01:12:57.900 some philosophical thing

01:12:59.020 that we read in a book,

01:12:59.780 but observationally,

01:13:01.280 we know it's stupid

01:13:01.960 and wrong.

01:13:02.540 Because you can't say,

01:13:03.840 I mean,

01:13:04.000 the number of people

01:13:04.520 that have said to Camille,

01:13:05.380 and I wish he was here

01:13:05.980 to talk about this

01:13:06.660 and not in bloody Peru.

01:13:07.820 Is he trying to get away

01:13:09.380 from us right now?

01:13:10.040 Is that what's happening?

01:13:11.580 Yeah.

01:13:12.660 Robin D'Angelo

01:13:13.300 texted him

01:13:14.020 and she was like,

01:13:14.760 you're not far away

01:13:15.640 from these people.

01:13:16.360 And he was like,

01:13:16.660 I'm getting on the line.

01:13:17.880 Non-black fragility.

01:13:19.460 That's what I mean.

01:13:21.440 Yeah,

01:13:21.800 he has Baltimore fragility.

01:13:23.880 He's not from Baltimore.

01:13:24.600 He's from Maryland.

01:13:25.240 But that kind of thing,

01:13:26.420 though,

01:13:26.580 is like,

01:13:27.100 you know,

01:13:27.620 crazy that Camille and I,

01:13:28.820 the people who say to him,

01:13:30.160 oh,

01:13:30.280 you're not

01:13:30.980 authentically

01:13:32.680 black.

01:13:33.880 And then,

01:13:34.840 of course,

01:13:35.360 there are 150 million ways

01:13:38.120 of being black.

01:13:39.820 In another way of saying that,

01:13:41.560 there's a lot of ways

01:13:42.140 of being human.

01:13:42.840 I mean,

01:13:43.080 the black thing is irrelevant.

01:13:44.940 But yeah,

01:13:45.540 I mean,

01:13:45.880 questioning somebody's

01:13:47.100 racial affinity

01:13:48.860 and their racial commitment

01:13:50.920 is one of the most

01:13:52.080 offensive things

01:13:52.680 that I can imagine.

01:13:54.520 And it's also something

01:13:55.320 that's never passed towards us.

01:13:57.820 We're not like,

01:13:59.040 oh,

01:13:59.160 you're not being

01:13:59.560 authentically white.

01:14:00.880 I mean,

01:14:01.180 that is where

01:14:02.040 privilege comes from.

01:14:03.340 We are,

01:14:03.620 the norm

01:14:04.400 because we are the norm.

01:14:06.180 We're expected

01:14:07.080 to have a diversity

01:14:08.020 of approaches

01:14:09.020 towards our lives

01:14:10.040 and our relationship

01:14:11.040 with whether we even

01:14:12.800 self-identify

01:14:13.960 as white or not,

01:14:15.440 which I increasingly

01:14:16.160 don't check those boxes

01:14:17.380 whenever asked.

01:14:18.600 And like,

01:14:19.040 imagine thinking like,

01:14:20.220 I'm waking up

01:14:20.880 and thinking like,

01:14:21.700 I'm a white person

01:14:22.740 and I have to like,

01:14:23.800 like defend whiteness.

01:14:25.060 Like,

01:14:25.220 what the hell

01:14:26.260 are you people

01:14:27.340 talking about?

01:14:28.360 And yet,

01:14:28.820 we impose this

01:14:29.840 on basically

01:14:30.440 every other group.

01:14:32.140 But look,

01:14:32.480 look what she's doing.

01:14:33.600 there.

01:14:34.020 I mean,

01:14:34.220 what's baked

01:14:36.220 into what she's saying

01:14:37.180 is,

01:14:37.620 you know,

01:14:37.920 the black people

01:14:39.560 really need to get away

01:14:40.320 from white people.

01:14:41.380 It's baked in.

01:14:42.200 White people are,

01:14:43.140 they're annoying.

01:14:44.380 They're awful.

01:14:45.360 Of course,

01:14:45.880 you'd need a break from them.

01:14:46.840 My God,

01:14:47.320 they're terrible.

01:14:48.060 And that's her whole thing.

01:14:49.000 I'm terrible.

01:14:50.000 She actually recommends

01:14:51.020 in this book

01:14:51.420 that a white person,

01:14:52.380 whenever she or he

01:14:53.300 walks into a room

01:14:53.940 with a black person,

01:14:54.940 start off

01:14:55.980 by apologizing.

01:14:57.700 Just,

01:14:58.380 hi,

01:14:59.000 I'm sorry

01:14:59.820 I'm white

01:15:00.240 and for all the sins

01:15:01.220 of the white people.

01:15:02.180 I mean,

01:15:02.340 like,

01:15:02.520 this is just so incredibly

01:15:03.580 weird.

01:15:04.160 No,

01:15:04.380 but don't do it

01:15:04.860 extravagantly,

01:15:05.640 Megan.

01:15:05.960 That's also,

01:15:06.600 because that is also

01:15:08.200 assuming your privilege.

01:15:09.940 No,

01:15:10.100 really,

01:15:10.320 I've read down

01:15:11.380 to the kernels

01:15:12.900 of her book

01:15:14.440 and it's so terrifyingly bleak

01:15:17.120 and unpleasant.

01:15:19.300 You can't imagine her

01:15:20.360 cracking a smile

01:15:21.340 except a rueful smile

01:15:22.880 on,

01:15:23.380 like,

01:15:23.560 it just sucks

01:15:24.120 to be so rich

01:15:24.980 peddling white guilt

01:15:26.440 to people,

01:15:27.020 which she absolutely does

01:15:28.360 very successfully.

01:15:30.020 One quick point,

01:15:31.060 my eight-year-old

01:15:31.820 just had a DEI

01:15:33.320 type of seminar

01:15:34.100 yesterday

01:15:34.680 at her private school

01:15:36.220 in New York

01:15:37.040 and they read a book

01:15:37.880 about,

01:15:38.540 or they read a story

01:15:39.340 about a kid

01:15:41.220 from China,

01:15:42.780 I think,

01:15:43.220 who transfers

01:15:43.960 to America

01:15:44.660 at a school

01:15:45.800 and is treated

01:15:46.760 really mean

01:15:47.260 at her school

01:15:47.780 and that's bad

01:15:48.420 and we shouldn't

01:15:48.940 treat people mean.

01:15:50.160 And I asked her

01:15:51.380 and I wasn't being

01:15:51.880 leading in any way.

01:15:52.600 I was just kind of curious

01:15:53.220 how the whole thing went.

01:15:54.120 I'm like,

01:15:54.580 imagine that happened

01:15:55.380 at your school.

01:15:56.360 Like,

01:15:56.480 you got a girl

01:15:57.840 from China tomorrow.

01:15:59.740 What would happen?

01:16:00.640 And she's like,

01:16:01.060 we would be totally happy

01:16:02.360 to talk to the kid

01:16:03.640 from China.

01:16:04.240 That sounds fascinating.

01:16:05.800 Like,

01:16:06.180 she was happy

01:16:06.660 for the lesson.

01:16:07.540 She thought it was interesting

01:16:08.340 and,

01:16:08.660 you know,

01:16:09.240 liked the reinforcement

01:16:10.380 that you shouldn't

01:16:11.100 be mean,

01:16:11.700 but also her world

01:16:13.280 is not to be mean.

01:16:14.540 It isn't to,

01:16:15.760 like,

01:16:16.240 single people out

01:16:17.600 for this characteristic

01:16:19.300 or that.

01:16:20.260 And the friend group,

01:16:21.280 and I know the same

01:16:21.840 that is true

01:16:22.240 with Michael's daughter

01:16:23.020 as well,

01:16:23.940 like,

01:16:24.680 they're lived in reality

01:16:26.280 compared to what

01:16:26.960 they're taught

01:16:27.540 about the horror

01:16:28.260 of the world

01:16:28.880 just to have nothing

01:16:29.780 in common.

01:16:30.800 Yeah.

01:16:31.620 It's true.

01:16:32.240 And I'll squeeze this in

01:16:33.080 before we take a quick break.

01:16:34.440 I mean,

01:16:34.980 look at what's happening

01:16:36.280 in San Francisco,

01:16:37.100 right,

01:16:37.340 where most of the families

01:16:38.680 who live out there

01:16:39.280 are pretty far left.

01:16:40.840 I'm sure it's not

01:16:41.840 stock full

01:16:43.120 of a bunch

01:16:43.640 of white supremacists

01:16:44.540 looking to ruin

01:16:45.240 the lives

01:16:45.700 of their black neighbors

01:16:46.720 and colleagues

01:16:47.980 and students

01:16:48.860 in the schools.

01:16:50.220 And yet,

01:16:50.580 that city

01:16:51.400 is now

01:16:52.160 well on its way

01:16:53.400 toward these

01:16:53.860 $5 million payments

01:16:55.360 in reparations

01:16:56.600 toward its black citizens.

01:16:58.400 I mean,

01:16:58.580 this is absolute madness.

01:17:00.940 They've now,

01:17:01.700 the advisory,

01:17:02.700 the reparations advisory committee

01:17:04.420 has now

01:17:05.680 unanimously

01:17:06.620 voted

01:17:07.680 and it's been accepted

01:17:09.460 by the San Francisco

01:17:10.120 Board of Supervisors

01:17:11.060 unanimously

01:17:11.640 that they should give

01:17:13.300 a one-time

01:17:13.980 $5 million payment

01:17:15.060 to the black people

01:17:16.920 of San Francisco

01:17:17.460 who meet just

01:17:18.120 a couple of easy criteria

01:17:19.980 along with these

01:17:21.400 other proposals.

01:17:22.420 That doesn't make it law yet.

01:17:23.720 At some point,

01:17:24.520 lawmakers are going to have

01:17:25.240 to draft and pass legislation,

01:17:26.440 but they're well on their way.

01:17:28.280 And the other things

01:17:29.200 that they're getting ready

01:17:30.000 to give black citizens

01:17:31.200 of San Francisco

01:17:31.920 include,

01:17:33.040 there's 100 recommendations,

01:17:34.780 the elimination

01:17:35.280 of personal debt

01:17:36.240 and tax burdens.

01:17:38.000 How does that work?

01:17:38.880 Okay,

01:17:39.080 so they don't have to pay taxes

01:17:39.860 ever again?

01:17:41.380 Guaranteed annual incomes

01:17:42.760 of at least $97,000

01:17:44.640 for 250 years.

01:17:46.640 That's,

01:17:46.920 I think,

01:17:47.080 on top of your $5 million.

01:17:49.540 And homes in San Francisco

01:17:51.080 for just $1 a family.

01:17:53.160 Yeah.

01:17:54.620 How is this going to work?

01:17:58.200 Oh my God,

01:17:58.820 it's like a banner ad.

01:18:00.260 Like,

01:18:00.420 you too can get a home

01:18:01.360 for a dollar

01:18:02.020 and it's like

01:18:03.300 $100,000

01:18:04.000 for 250 years.

01:18:05.060 It's like,

01:18:05.320 there's a scam here.

01:18:06.320 It's like,

01:18:06.520 no, no, no,

01:18:06.800 it's actually San Francisco.

01:18:08.220 It is a scam,

01:18:09.260 but it's kind of

01:18:09.880 an official scam.

01:18:10.520 Listen to how you can get it.

01:18:11.440 It's so easy.

01:18:12.380 I mean,

01:18:12.660 so you,

01:18:13.860 hold on,

01:18:16.120 you have to be 18 years

01:18:16.940 or older.

01:18:17.780 You have to have been,

01:18:18.760 you don't actually

01:18:19.280 have to be black.

01:18:20.520 You just have to be

01:18:21.140 identifying as black

01:18:22.380 or African-American

01:18:23.220 on a public document

01:18:24.420 for at least 10 years.

01:18:25.700 So,

01:18:26.440 any of these race hustlers

01:18:27.380 we've been talking about,

01:18:28.420 as long as they were

01:18:29.100 pretending for 10 years,

01:18:30.140 you're good.

01:18:31.580 Yeah.

01:18:32.320 Then you have to meet

01:18:33.280 two additional criteria,

01:18:35.300 including,

01:18:36.260 you have to have been born

01:18:37.300 or have migrated

01:18:38.620 to the city

01:18:39.080 between 1940 and 1996.

01:18:40.980 Pretty easy.

01:18:41.500 That's just an age thing.

01:18:42.800 You have to have been

01:18:44.200 incarcerated

01:18:45.500 by the failed

01:18:47.060 war on drugs

01:18:48.460 or be the direct descendant

01:18:50.060 of someone who was.

01:18:51.280 They're,

01:18:51.480 they're incentivizing

01:18:53.080 drug deals

01:18:54.560 or like trying to reward

01:18:55.720 people who've been

01:18:56.380 selling drugs.

01:18:57.420 That's a criterion

01:18:59.040 that you must meet.

01:19:00.500 It's unbelievable.

01:19:01.640 I chose the wrong path in life.

01:19:03.700 Yeah.

01:19:03.880 Descendant of someone

01:19:04.540 who was enslaved.

01:19:05.960 Okay.

01:19:06.200 That we get.

01:19:07.820 Displaced between 54 and 73

01:19:09.300 or be a descendant

01:19:10.280 of someone who was.

01:19:11.240 I don't even,

01:19:11.720 okay.

01:19:12.040 All right.

01:19:12.360 What?

01:19:13.060 Part of a marginalized group

01:19:14.100 who experienced

01:19:14.840 lending discrimination

01:19:16.140 between 37 and 68

01:19:17.580 or informally redlined communities.

01:19:19.800 Okay.

01:19:20.300 So honestly,

01:19:20.940 you can just have said

01:19:22.140 that you were black

01:19:22.640 for 10 years

01:19:23.220 and immigrated to the city

01:19:25.500 or been born in the city

01:19:26.260 between 40 and 96

01:19:27.200 and have been arrested

01:19:28.840 or incarcerated.

01:19:29.840 We haven't been incarcerated

01:19:30.700 by the war on drugs

01:19:31.500 like you sold drugs

01:19:32.640 and you,

01:19:33.660 according to these geniuses

01:19:34.800 are going to get

01:19:35.320 all of these perks.

01:19:37.820 Yes.

01:19:38.720 And this is going to create

01:19:39.700 an amazing amount

01:19:40.260 of bureaucracy

01:19:40.740 of determining

01:19:42.220 who,

01:19:43.000 you know,

01:19:43.700 meets all the,

01:19:44.720 all these criteria.

01:19:45.420 By the way,

01:19:45.820 I understand

01:19:46.560 when somebody says

01:19:47.780 you have to be

01:19:49.140 a direct descendant

01:19:49.940 of somebody oppressed

01:19:51.060 or a slave

01:19:51.600 or something like this

01:19:52.280 because we've done this

01:19:53.280 in the past

01:19:53.640 and there's times

01:19:54.200 when it makes sense

01:19:54.760 and at times

01:19:55.260 when it makes sense

01:19:55.720 with people

01:19:56.200 who actually

01:19:56.860 were themselves harmed.

01:19:58.240 So,

01:19:58.480 you know,

01:19:58.800 the governor of Germany

01:19:59.540 paying Holocaust survivors,

01:20:02.040 the governor of the United States

01:20:02.880 paying people

01:20:03.480 who were in Japanese Americans

01:20:04.600 who were interned

01:20:05.400 all makes sense.

01:20:06.200 You were harmed.

01:20:07.060 It's like,

01:20:07.440 you know,

01:20:07.900 going to court

01:20:08.540 and getting a judgment.

01:20:09.600 this is interesting

01:20:12.180 because they're telling you

01:20:12.760 who qualifies

01:20:13.340 to get the money.

01:20:14.120 It doesn't tell you

01:20:14.580 who qualifies

01:20:15.260 to pay for it.

01:20:16.660 So,

01:20:16.920 if you are,

01:20:17.940 you know,

01:20:18.580 Matt Welch's wife

01:20:20.460 who is,

01:20:22.700 I think,

01:20:23.220 maybe an American citizen now

01:20:24.200 but she's French.

01:20:24.940 Totally right.

01:20:25.460 Yes.

01:20:25.640 She's a,

01:20:26.140 but she's been

01:20:26.740 an American citizen

01:20:27.420 for how long?

01:20:27.880 Does she have to not pay

01:20:29.780 if she was in California?

01:20:30.660 You guys were California residents.

01:20:32.380 Does that,

01:20:32.940 you know,

01:20:33.080 do you get to take it

01:20:33.680 off your taxes

01:20:34.500 because you came here

01:20:36.400 in a time

01:20:37.120 for those 12 years

01:20:38.840 you've been here

01:20:39.420 you've benefited

01:20:40.500 from slavery

01:20:41.660 or the results

01:20:42.920 of slavery.

01:20:44.100 So,

01:20:44.300 how is that prorated?

01:20:45.420 I mean,

01:20:45.560 do you get a discount?

01:20:46.920 It is so,

01:20:47.840 it's such lunacy

01:20:48.860 to actually try

01:20:49.620 to determine

01:20:50.260 that there is

01:20:51.240 a historical debt.

01:20:52.180 The thing that everybody

01:20:52.940 has to remember

01:20:53.440 about this,

01:20:54.380 you know,

01:20:54.560 70% of Americans

01:20:55.920 when pulled

01:20:56.560 think reparations,

01:20:58.080 not 5 million,

01:20:59.680 not in perpetuity payments,

01:21:01.260 just reparations

01:21:01.920 in general,

01:21:02.860 70% think

01:21:03.700 are a bad idea.

01:21:05.320 The thing that people

01:21:06.140 don't really realize

01:21:06.900 and it's the fact

01:21:08.940 that Americans believe

01:21:10.340 and particularly

01:21:11.220 in the kind of

01:21:11.980 grievance world

01:21:12.800 of Americans,

01:21:13.900 Americans believe

01:21:14.680 that they are central

01:21:15.500 to everything

01:21:16.060 in the world,

01:21:16.980 right?

01:21:17.260 That used to be

01:21:17.800 a complaint

01:21:18.220 that came from the left.

01:21:19.200 Now it's a complaint

01:21:19.840 about the left

01:21:20.740 that in the sense

01:21:22.140 that every place

01:21:23.540 on earth

01:21:24.440 has benefited

01:21:25.100 from slavery.

01:21:26.780 There's no culture

01:21:27.620 in which there was

01:21:28.120 no slavery

01:21:28.520 and if you can find it,

01:21:29.880 it's very,

01:21:30.440 very difficult to find.

01:21:31.420 Native Americans,

01:21:32.360 slavery,

01:21:32.940 taking,

01:21:33.360 you know,

01:21:33.780 possession of people's land,

01:21:35.380 you know,

01:21:35.940 taking prisoners

01:21:36.600 from a tribe

01:21:37.200 enslaving them,

01:21:37.920 et cetera.

01:21:38.740 This is throughout history.

01:21:40.500 So what do you pay for

01:21:41.820 in historical grievance?

01:21:42.860 Because historical grievance

01:21:44.360 means that borders shift,

01:21:46.180 people are oppressed,

01:21:47.060 people are displaced,

01:21:48.060 and that ultimately affects,

01:21:49.740 long down the line,

01:21:51.320 the way people live,

01:21:52.560 the way people earn,

01:21:53.680 their prospects.

01:21:54.920 So imagine if something

01:21:55.820 like this went global.

01:21:57.240 I mean,

01:21:57.400 I suppose we'd all know

01:21:58.260 a lot more about history.

01:21:59.200 It'd be a good way

01:21:59.680 of creating a history program

01:22:01.100 for the world

01:22:01.640 to understand

01:22:02.860 everybody's grievance.

01:22:03.960 But paying people money,

01:22:06.360 something that happened,

01:22:07.600 you know,

01:22:08.180 150 years ago,

01:22:10.420 strikes most people

01:22:11.360 as lunacy

01:22:11.800 and it's because it is.

01:22:13.620 And also,

01:22:14.240 it's not needs-based at all.

01:22:16.240 Like,

01:22:16.740 if Oprah lived

01:22:18.040 in San Francisco,

01:22:19.520 she could get it,

01:22:20.500 I guess?

01:22:20.860 I don't like,

01:22:21.380 really?

01:22:22.060 Okay.

01:22:22.860 And then we did a story

01:22:23.840 recently on Angela Davis

01:22:25.080 who did the

01:22:26.640 Find Your Roots thing

01:22:27.460 with Henry Louis Gates

01:22:28.680 and it turned out

01:22:29.980 she's the descendant

01:22:31.540 of Mayflower people

01:22:33.060 and her white ancestors

01:22:34.580 owned slaves.

01:22:36.040 So does she pay the money

01:22:37.040 or does she get the money?

01:22:38.260 I'm like,

01:22:38.480 how are they going to see it now?

01:22:39.020 We sent her a bill

01:22:39.680 but she only has to pay half.

01:22:43.540 And let's not forget,

01:22:44.900 just to stick up

01:22:46.060 for California yet again

01:22:47.280 on this podcast,

01:22:48.940 the word reparations

01:22:50.040 is commonly understood

01:22:51.180 to refer to slavery.

01:22:54.740 Breaking news,

01:22:55.980 San Francisco

01:22:56.640 was not

01:22:57.640 the capital

01:22:58.420 of the Confederacy.

01:23:00.420 California wasn't

01:23:01.040 a slave state!

01:23:02.360 California wasn't

01:23:03.720 a slave state

01:23:05.340 historically.

01:23:06.460 And also,

01:23:06.980 if you wanted to

01:23:07.780 look at the culpability

01:23:09.340 of the state of California,

01:23:11.040 the city of San Francisco

01:23:12.060 towards targeted,

01:23:13.420 unfavored,

01:23:14.740 disfavored minorities,

01:23:16.540 pretty sure

01:23:17.560 the Chinese

01:23:18.100 are going to

01:23:18.960 get first in line

01:23:20.460 probably in that case.

01:23:21.660 Chinese and Japanese

01:23:22.480 who have been

01:23:23.080 compensated.

01:23:24.400 But there have been

01:23:24.800 a history of

01:23:26.640 exclusion acts,

01:23:28.420 overt discrimination,

01:23:29.840 Jews as well,

01:23:30.860 all over Southern California,

01:23:32.060 including where I grew up,

01:23:32.920 the Jews were not allowed

01:23:33.760 to live in my neighborhood

01:23:34.900 in the 50s.

01:23:36.600 It sounds crazy.

01:23:37.660 So are we going to have

01:23:38.440 reparations for Jews

01:23:40.080 in the 50s

01:23:40.760 in Southern California?

01:23:41.420 No, we are not.

01:23:42.640 Let's just be honest

01:23:43.660 about how that's going

01:23:44.680 to work out.

01:23:45.200 So they're doing reparations

01:23:46.660 for redlining.

01:23:47.640 They're doing the reparations

01:23:48.500 for stuff that FDR did

01:23:50.540 or that happened

01:23:51.240 under FDR.

01:23:52.020 Good luck with that

01:23:54.020 and convincing people

01:23:54.920 of it.

01:23:55.940 I'm all in favor,

01:23:57.560 really,

01:23:58.140 of governments

01:23:58.820 saying,

01:24:00.060 look,

01:24:00.240 we did specific harms

01:24:01.520 to specific communities.

01:24:03.520 We took land,

01:24:04.380 especially,

01:24:04.880 because that's really

01:24:05.420 easy to prove

01:24:06.140 in some cases.

01:24:08.380 You've got to give

01:24:09.240 that land back.

01:24:10.080 Or,

01:24:10.420 specifically to what

01:24:11.280 we were talking about

01:24:11.740 before,

01:24:12.460 the way that Native

01:24:13.280 American tribes

01:24:13.980 were screwed over

01:24:14.820 systematically over

01:24:15.720 and over again.

01:24:16.620 This is where I believe

01:24:17.980 our sense of

01:24:19.320 restorative justice,

01:24:20.960 to use a terrible phrase,

01:24:22.580 should be used.

01:24:23.600 You,

01:24:23.960 government committed a harm,

01:24:25.160 go find the harm,

01:24:26.340 measure it,

01:24:27.080 think about it,

01:24:27.600 there's someone to pay back.

01:24:28.780 But a free-floating,

01:24:30.880 like,

01:24:31.240 there was harm done

01:24:32.400 to communities,

01:24:33.400 including by the drug war.

01:24:34.280 Drug war sucks.

01:24:35.040 I've been fighting against it

01:24:35.840 for as long

01:24:36.320 as I've been smoking drugs

01:24:38.300 at age three

01:24:38.900 or whatever it was

01:24:39.580 in California.

01:24:40.560 I think it's awful.

01:24:42.360 It's explained so much.

01:24:44.120 But,

01:24:44.400 for crying out loud,

01:24:45.720 you can't do this.

01:24:46.900 You have to be

01:24:47.620 very specific with it.

01:24:49.540 These harms do exist.

01:24:52.160 Go find those.

01:24:53.400 Don't,

01:24:53.760 like,

01:24:54.420 read a Ta-Nehisi Coates

01:24:55.620 article from 15 years ago

01:24:57.440 and say,

01:24:58.120 how can we get in

01:24:59.040 on the virtue signaling

01:25:00.540 that we have

01:25:01.780 a more virtuous city

01:25:02.920 than all the actual cities

01:25:04.680 in the Confederacy,

01:25:05.860 which,

01:25:06.180 by the way,

01:25:06.560 tend to do better

01:25:07.280 right now

01:25:07.920 in terms of race relations

01:25:09.220 than San Francisco

01:25:10.280 or various

01:25:11.100 elite progressive places.

01:25:12.980 Putting aside Matt Walsh's

01:25:14.000 cry for help

01:25:15.000 in that,

01:25:15.900 Michael,

01:25:16.260 I want to tell you

01:25:18.200 that the Hoover

01:25:19.520 Institution,

01:25:20.560 which we've mentioned

01:25:21.140 a couple times

01:25:21.600 on the show

01:25:21.980 at Stanford,

01:25:23.740 which means conservative,

01:25:25.260 has said it would cost

01:25:26.320 each non-black family

01:25:27.800 in the city

01:25:28.240 at least $600,000.

01:25:30.960 So I hope

01:25:31.600 all the families

01:25:32.220 out there

01:25:32.920 who don't qualify

01:25:33.960 understand that

01:25:34.660 it's going to be

01:25:35.160 well over half a million dollars

01:25:36.440 at least to you,

01:25:37.540 not to mention

01:25:37.960 maybe you have to

01:25:39.020 give up your home

01:25:39.620 because I don't know

01:25:40.000 where they're going to

01:25:40.360 find a free home

01:25:41.360 for a dollar

01:25:41.820 for everybody.

01:25:42.380 This will never work,

01:25:44.660 but I'm not going to lie,

01:25:45.440 I'm kind of hoping

01:25:46.140 it happens.

01:25:46.880 I just kind of want to say

01:25:47.440 I'm not going to have

01:25:48.000 to pay for it.

01:25:48.740 Can't wait to see

01:25:49.180 how this works out

01:25:49.900 for everybody.

01:25:50.940 I think it's going to be

01:25:51.800 a social experiment

01:25:52.540 they'll regret

01:25:53.420 that will not spread,

01:25:54.500 but why not San Fran?

01:25:56.160 Let's start there.

01:25:57.660 Okay,

01:25:57.940 stand by,

01:25:58.500 quick break,

01:25:58.980 more with the fifth column

01:25:59.680 right after this quick break.

01:26:04.000 I've got my

01:26:04.740 St. Patrick's Day gear on

01:26:05.980 and I'm back with

01:26:06.500 Michael Moynihan

01:26:07.160 and Matt Welsh

01:26:08.000 of the fifth column.

01:26:09.780 Did I tell you?

01:26:10.500 I'm ready to represent.

01:26:12.580 I have got my little

01:26:13.500 necklaces.

01:26:15.560 Yes,

01:26:15.760 it's pretty.

01:26:16.180 You like it?

01:26:16.900 Ireland are very excited

01:26:17.880 about this.

01:26:18.600 Yeah.

01:26:21.120 You should see my kids

01:26:22.200 right now.

01:26:22.720 They're skiing.

01:26:23.680 I got them like the wraps

01:26:25.160 that go on your helmet,

01:26:26.540 which has got like

01:26:27.020 the shamrocks all over them

01:26:28.220 and they too are wearing

01:26:29.140 their gear because,

01:26:30.100 hey,

01:26:30.260 it's St. Patrick's Day

01:26:31.100 and we got to let loose.

01:26:32.660 All right.

01:26:33.460 Now,

01:26:33.860 one of the things

01:26:34.360 that's also happening this week,

01:26:35.400 you may be aware,

01:26:36.100 is the March Madness Tournament.

01:26:37.640 Are you guys in a bracket?

01:26:38.640 Did you do your brackets

01:26:39.520 for somebody?

01:26:41.380 Absolutely.

01:26:41.780 I did, Matt.

01:26:42.460 You did?

01:26:43.140 I did because

01:26:44.060 about one year out of five,

01:26:46.540 UC Santa Barbara,

01:26:47.720 my sort of alma mater

01:26:48.760 before I got kicked out of school,

01:26:50.820 makes the tournament.

01:26:51.960 So I just join whatever

01:26:53.220 work thing there is

01:26:55.200 and I pick them to win it all.

01:26:56.520 So today,

01:26:57.160 they're going to

01:26:57.900 start the march.

01:27:00.040 You're like I am.

01:27:00.800 So I,

01:27:01.660 my system is very random

01:27:03.560 and I lose

01:27:04.480 pretty much every year,

01:27:05.420 but when I nail it,

01:27:06.600 I win the whole thing.

01:27:07.380 It happened in 2018.

01:27:09.100 You could Google it.

01:27:10.040 I won the media tournament.

01:27:11.900 Technically,

01:27:12.320 Willie Geist won

01:27:13.020 because he actually entered

01:27:14.020 and I didn't,

01:27:14.940 but there was proof online

01:27:15.760 that I had picked

01:27:16.680 the best bracket

01:27:17.340 of anybody in the media tournament

01:27:18.580 because I only pick schools

01:27:20.800 that I have

01:27:21.440 like an emotional affiliation with.

01:27:23.440 Like,

01:27:23.600 like,

01:27:24.020 unfortunately,

01:27:24.560 I picked Virginia

01:27:25.180 because I used to live there

01:27:25.940 and they got crushed

01:27:26.620 in the first round.

01:27:27.180 That was disappointing.

01:27:27.820 Everyone got that wrong,

01:27:29.080 but I have Baylor

01:27:30.640 going all the way.

01:27:31.800 I think I have them winning

01:27:32.700 because I had a really sweet dog

01:27:34.840 named Bailey

01:27:35.600 who we called Baylor.

01:27:37.840 So if I nail it,

01:27:38.640 you know,

01:27:38.860 I'm,

01:27:39.400 I'm,

01:27:40.140 my bracket is very upsetting.

01:27:42.300 Well,

01:27:42.780 apparently Kamala Harris

01:27:43.580 is following the March Madness

01:27:45.520 because Howard University

01:27:48.000 was playing,

01:27:48.960 who are they playing?

01:27:49.800 Who did they lose to?

01:27:50.980 Kansas.

01:27:52.020 And,

01:27:52.520 and they got crushed

01:27:53.640 by Kansas.

01:27:54.420 It was a,

01:27:55.100 quite the beat down.

01:27:55.880 I think it was like 29 points,

01:27:57.020 28 points.

01:27:57.860 And she decided to go,

01:27:59.820 to go offer

01:28:00.640 that the Huffington Post

01:28:02.120 write-up was like

01:28:02.600 her inspirational speech

01:28:04.260 to the Howard team.

01:28:06.160 You tell me.

01:28:07.300 Here's a sample.

01:28:08.140 Oh no.

01:28:09.540 You played hard.

01:28:10.960 You played to the very last second.

01:28:13.820 You made all us Bisons

01:28:15.840 so,

01:28:16.960 so proud.

01:28:18.380 Oh no.

01:28:18.880 You hustled out there.

01:28:20.440 You are smart.

01:28:22.440 You are disciplined.

01:28:24.560 You put everything you had

01:28:25.980 into the game.

01:28:27.480 And you know,

01:28:27.960 that's what it's about,

01:28:29.060 right?

01:28:29.500 This team,

01:28:30.180 this year,

01:28:31.140 this team.

01:28:32.680 You make us so proud.

01:28:35.480 Oh my God.

01:28:37.440 Veep was a documentary.

01:28:39.160 Veep was a documentary.

01:28:40.200 That is,

01:28:40.920 she is incapable

01:28:41.980 of not being

01:28:42.860 entirely embarrassing.

01:28:44.500 She's like,

01:28:44.900 you guys,

01:28:45.700 you had the ball,

01:28:47.200 you dribbled it,

01:28:48.280 you put it in the hoop sometimes.

01:28:49.820 Sometimes you didn't,

01:28:50.820 but you tried.

01:28:51.860 And that made me so proud.

01:28:53.500 You lost by 30 points.

01:28:54.760 Even that,

01:28:55.280 you sucked.

01:28:55.880 You actually were terrible.

01:28:56.960 You were really terrible today.

01:28:58.260 She should have gone in

01:28:59.220 and just been like,

01:28:59.900 yeah.

01:29:00.560 Oh my God.

01:29:01.580 You're smart.

01:29:01.840 That's my favorite line.

01:29:03.260 You're smart.

01:29:04.600 You're smart.

01:29:05.680 You're smart.

01:29:06.340 People like you.

01:29:07.740 Yeah.

01:29:08.360 You're the basketball team

01:29:09.780 at a university.

01:29:11.800 It's what her husband says to her.

01:29:13.500 She's just repeating

01:29:14.200 her husband's comments

01:29:15.220 to her at night.

01:29:15.920 Oh yeah.

01:29:17.020 Well,

01:29:17.220 her husband's comments

01:29:18.080 are like,

01:29:18.520 you guys,

01:29:19.360 it's like the Holocaust

01:29:20.220 because that's what he was

01:29:21.300 talking about this week.

01:29:24.040 No,

01:29:24.640 she,

01:29:25.340 I have to say the thing

01:29:26.120 about Kamala Harris

01:29:26.780 is that it is something

01:29:28.580 that is indescribable.

01:29:29.900 And I think everyone

01:29:30.780 will know what this is

01:29:31.400 when somebody says,

01:29:32.160 do you want Kamala Harris

01:29:33.780 to run for president?

01:29:34.840 For instance.

01:29:35.900 And if I said no,

01:29:36.920 I couldn't really put it

01:29:38.400 in words.

01:29:38.820 Why?

01:29:39.560 Because she's just so atrocious

01:29:41.320 and it's just a feeling

01:29:42.300 that you get when you watch her

01:29:43.380 because she says nothing

01:29:44.720 so wonderfully fluidly.

01:29:46.820 She just says nothing

01:29:47.980 for minutes at a time.

01:29:49.640 It's really like ASMR.

01:29:52.600 I should tell the audience

01:29:53.760 about what happened

01:29:54.540 with the husband.

01:29:55.300 It's too long a soundbite

01:29:56.100 to play,

01:29:56.400 but basically he,

01:29:57.160 he was making remarks

01:29:58.040 and he literally did compare

01:29:59.560 the hate that led

01:30:00.940 to the Holocaust

01:30:01.980 to Americans

01:30:04.220 at school board meetings.

01:30:05.420 He said,

01:30:05.840 you can see it here too.

01:30:07.360 This hate is interconnected.

01:30:09.100 You see it in the discourse

01:30:10.080 in the country right now.

01:30:10.980 You see it in the divide.

01:30:12.000 We have just going

01:30:12.800 to school meetings.

01:30:13.660 You see that hate is out there.

01:30:15.400 We've got to step up

01:30:16.140 and speak.

01:30:16.520 No,

01:30:16.740 you don't.

01:30:17.360 And by the way,

01:30:17.880 don't confuse people's

01:30:19.120 righteous,

01:30:19.640 anger over what was done

01:30:21.600 to their children

01:30:22.320 with hate.

01:30:23.960 That's not the same thing

01:30:24.840 and it's certainly

01:30:25.260 not the same thing

01:30:25.720 as a Holocaust hate.

01:30:28.040 Matt Welch

01:30:28.900 was very angry

01:30:29.800 about the school stuff

01:30:30.860 and I have been

01:30:31.920 for a long time

01:30:32.540 calling him

01:30:33.120 the Heinrich Himmler

01:30:34.020 of Brooklyn

01:30:34.520 and I'm glad

01:30:35.560 that I have backup

01:30:36.400 from the first,

01:30:37.340 second gentleman

01:30:38.280 or whoever.

01:30:39.360 Like,

01:30:39.700 good Lord.

01:30:40.480 They tried this

01:30:41.700 with Glenn Youngkin,

01:30:43.380 remember,

01:30:43.780 when he won

01:30:44.480 an upset victory

01:30:45.940 in Virginia

01:30:46.740 for the governorship

01:30:49.160 against Terry McAuliffe,

01:30:51.020 I believe,

01:30:51.540 you know,

01:30:51.820 someone who had a history

01:30:53.540 and was better known

01:30:54.640 before that election,

01:30:56.900 which was largely fought

01:30:58.320 on the issue of schools,

01:31:00.380 whether they've been open,

01:31:01.680 whether they,

01:31:02.180 during COVID,

01:31:03.000 whether they've been

01:31:03.520 responsive to parents

01:31:04.500 in certain high-profile cases

01:31:06.280 and other things,

01:31:06.880 what they've done

01:31:07.840 to their gifted

01:31:09.060 and talented programs.

01:31:10.100 A lot of stuff

01:31:10.580 associated with that.

01:31:12.500 MSNBC,

01:31:13.560 an institution

01:31:14.340 you might be familiar with,

01:31:15.300 Megan,

01:31:15.880 and other people

01:31:16.960 were going on

01:31:18.480 about how

01:31:19.120 we're just seeing,

01:31:20.460 you know,

01:31:21.420 open,

01:31:22.360 like,

01:31:22.840 confederacy,

01:31:23.440 white supremacy,

01:31:24.400 this is racism flowering.

01:31:26.780 In Virginia,

01:31:27.980 which voted for Joe Biden,

01:31:29.280 which has voted Democrat

01:31:30.340 for basically everything

01:31:31.560 the last 10,

01:31:32.240 12 years,

01:31:33.220 suddenly turned on a dime

01:31:34.680 and became super racist

01:31:36.280 and the voters of Virginia

01:31:37.400 were like,

01:31:37.900 I don't know,

01:31:39.840 that's not what we did.

01:31:41.260 We're mad about the schools

01:31:42.680 in Fairfax

01:31:44.020 where it's not notoriously

01:31:45.740 a breeding ground

01:31:46.500 for racists

01:31:47.660 and Glenn Youngton

01:31:49.160 is one of the more

01:31:49.800 popular governors

01:31:50.560 in the country

01:31:51.440 as a result

01:31:52.380 and it was widely,

01:31:53.680 widely characterized

01:31:54.340 as this is

01:31:56.060 the awful,

01:31:57.140 bared fangs

01:31:57.860 of white supremacy

01:31:58.680 coming out to get us again.

01:32:00.060 Well,

01:32:00.560 the second gentleman

01:32:01.640 got the memo

01:32:02.920 and decided to repeat it

01:32:04.220 on the world stage.

01:32:05.060 Nicely done.

01:32:05.660 As we're on the topic

01:32:07.140 of second,

01:32:08.620 Mike Pence

01:32:09.280 is fighting

01:32:10.000 with Pete

01:32:11.400 and Chasen Buttigieg.

01:32:13.260 Mike Pence

01:32:14.180 went to the gridiron,

01:32:15.900 I think it was,

01:32:17.320 which is like

01:32:18.560 this muckety-muckety thing

01:32:19.920 with journalists

01:32:20.400 and politicians

01:32:21.140 where you get up there

01:32:22.560 and you do a roast

01:32:23.280 and he referred

01:32:24.980 to Mike Pence

01:32:26.840 or to Pete Buttigieg's

01:32:28.220 quote,

01:32:29.060 maternity leave

01:32:30.300 and said

01:32:31.240 while he was on this

01:32:32.580 quote,

01:32:33.000 maternity leave,

01:32:33.880 the country

01:32:34.700 was falling apart,

01:32:35.620 we had a supply chain crisis

01:32:36.920 and this is the only person

01:32:38.780 who's ever taken leave

01:32:39.640 and the rest of the country

01:32:40.800 got postpartum depression.

01:32:43.820 It was a joke.

01:32:45.020 Well,

01:32:45.780 Pete Buttigieg's husband

01:32:46.880 goes out on The View,

01:32:48.840 he's indignant,

01:32:50.180 he wants an apology.

01:32:51.720 Again,

01:32:52.120 he calls,

01:32:52.840 he says that,

01:32:54.120 all right,

01:32:54.920 let's listen,

01:32:55.320 here it is.

01:32:55.640 And the White House

01:32:58.060 has slammed the comments

01:32:59.200 as homophobic,

01:33:00.440 which they were,

01:33:01.160 in my view,

01:33:02.120 and inappropriate.

01:33:03.300 But Mike Pence's

01:33:04.420 former chief of staff

01:33:05.420 called the response

01:33:06.320 from the White House

01:33:07.000 faux outrage.

01:33:08.540 You know,

01:33:08.860 I think it's not woke,

01:33:10.660 you know,

01:33:11.540 to say that something

01:33:12.980 is homophobic

01:33:13.680 or misogynistic.

01:33:14.460 It doesn't make it woke,

01:33:15.780 you know,

01:33:15.920 it doesn't make you

01:33:16.340 a snowflake.

01:33:17.080 We all have an obligation

01:33:18.300 to hold people accountable

01:33:19.840 for when they say

01:33:20.620 something wrong,

01:33:21.280 especially when it's

01:33:22.080 misogynistic,

01:33:22.660 especially when it's homophobic.

01:33:24.520 And I just don't take that

01:33:25.940 when it's directed

01:33:26.760 at my family

01:33:27.460 and I don't think

01:33:27.980 anybody else would,

01:33:28.860 especially when you bring

01:33:29.740 a very small,

01:33:31.060 medically fragile child

01:33:32.020 into it.

01:33:33.620 Okay.

01:33:34.640 Guess what?

01:33:35.900 Mike Pence responded.

01:33:38.660 Mike Pence,

01:33:39.620 I mean,

01:33:39.840 it's kind of interesting

01:33:40.600 to see Mike Pence

01:33:41.360 like defend himself.

01:33:43.600 He comes out to say,

01:33:44.860 I had a lot of jokes

01:33:46.060 directed at me

01:33:46.780 at this thing.

01:33:47.760 It was a roast.

01:33:49.780 And I directed

01:33:50.740 a lot of jokes

01:33:51.340 to Republicans

01:33:52.000 and Democrats.

01:33:52.980 The only thing

01:33:53.380 I can figure

01:33:54.000 is Pete Buttigieg

01:33:54.940 not only can't do his job,

01:33:56.760 he can't take a joke.

01:33:58.200 So what,

01:33:58.720 what do you make

01:33:59.480 of the dust up?

01:34:01.820 I'm still trying

01:34:02.780 to figure out

01:34:03.160 the role of misogyny

01:34:04.120 in this particular story.

01:34:05.360 It's,

01:34:05.460 I understand.

01:34:06.960 Oh, by the way,

01:34:07.780 he wants us to speak out

01:34:08.920 whenever we see misogyny,

01:34:10.260 you know,

01:34:10.440 chasing Buttigieg.

01:34:11.380 I don't remember him

01:34:12.260 saying anything

01:34:12.660 about Don Lemon

01:34:13.560 in the prime remarks.

01:34:15.020 Nothing.

01:34:15.620 Boo.

01:34:16.040 Why don't you hold yourself

01:34:17.340 to your own standards,

01:34:18.480 sir?

01:34:19.240 Sorry,

01:34:19.520 keep going.

01:34:19.860 Oh,

01:34:20.680 yeah,

01:34:21.120 that's right.

01:34:22.220 Sorry,

01:34:22.700 Todd,

01:34:22.940 I tend to forget

01:34:24.080 about Don Lemon things.

01:34:25.080 I just flush them out

01:34:26.060 and then it's brought up

01:34:27.340 again in the Oscars.

01:34:29.020 He was made fun of

01:34:29.600 in the Oscars,

01:34:30.120 by the way,

01:34:30.980 from the woman who won,

01:34:32.840 did she win Best Actress

01:34:33.740 or something?

01:34:34.020 I didn't want.

01:34:34.700 Yes,

01:34:34.960 and if that woman

01:34:35.860 had made fun of

01:34:36.460 Tucker Carlson,

01:34:37.260 it would have been

01:34:37.660 on every newspaper

01:34:39.360 and every news feed,

01:34:40.220 but since she was making fun

01:34:41.060 of Don Lemon,

01:34:41.920 very little was said about it.

01:34:43.120 So who won

01:34:44.380 in this debate

01:34:45.020 between Chasen Buttigieg

01:34:46.600 and Mike Pence?

01:34:47.580 And is he right?

01:34:48.620 Can you,

01:34:49.080 I mean,

01:34:49.460 take a freaking joke.

01:34:52.100 America lost.

01:34:53.360 Yes.

01:34:53.640 That's what I know.

01:34:55.080 Nobody won,

01:34:55.900 but America lost.

01:34:57.300 Look,

01:34:57.760 it's a bad joke

01:34:58.560 and that's irrelevant,

01:35:00.800 but you can call out the joke,

01:35:03.240 but never tell people

01:35:04.380 to apologize for jokes.

01:35:05.600 Honestly,

01:35:06.080 I mean,

01:35:06.320 it is obviously different

01:35:07.220 if Gilbert Gottfried

01:35:07.960 says it than Mike Pence

01:35:08.980 and it would be funnier

01:35:10.360 if Gilbert Gottfried

01:35:11.180 says it,

01:35:11.560 but you can be offended

01:35:13.580 by the joke.

01:35:14.200 Absolutely fine.

01:35:15.060 I have no problem with that,

01:35:16.580 but demanding apologies

01:35:18.240 is not something

01:35:18.880 that I'm in the business

01:35:19.640 of asking for.

01:35:21.580 I miss George W. Bush.

01:35:23.220 He could take a joke.

01:35:24.200 Good God,

01:35:24.820 was he beaten up

01:35:25.480 by everybody

01:35:26.080 and he always laughed,

01:35:27.600 you know,

01:35:27.840 like to show some class,

01:35:29.520 like take a whatever.

01:35:30.640 What was W's nickname

01:35:32.660 for you, Megan?

01:35:33.520 Because he has a nickname

01:35:34.200 for everybody.

01:35:35.880 I'm trying to remember.

01:35:36.960 I think he called me Meg.

01:35:38.060 He called me Meg,

01:35:38.780 which nobody calls me

01:35:39.520 other than my husband,

01:35:40.520 Doug,

01:35:40.780 which I like.

01:35:41.240 That's kind of cute.

01:35:42.400 It made me feel closer to him.

01:35:43.640 Weird note to end on, Megan.

01:35:45.700 I will say this.

01:35:47.120 I think the reason

01:35:47.820 he gets mocked

01:35:49.140 for the,

01:35:49.680 you know,

01:35:50.040 leave is I realize

01:35:51.200 he had twins

01:35:51.800 and the whole bit,

01:35:52.420 but he took the same time

01:35:54.160 on his child

01:35:54.680 that I took for mine

01:35:55.520 and I actually grew

01:35:56.400 a human being in my body

01:35:57.580 and birthed it

01:35:58.480 and had a surgery

01:35:59.120 and Pete Buttigieg

01:36:00.560 and I had the same

01:36:01.420 maternity leave,

01:36:02.380 paternity leave,

01:36:03.080 however you want to say it.

01:36:04.300 And there are a lot of people

01:36:05.300 who kind of looked at it

01:36:06.300 like,

01:36:06.680 really?

01:36:07.300 Okay.

01:36:07.880 Anyway,

01:36:08.620 so the last word,

01:36:09.580 love talking to you guys.

01:36:10.580 We'll get Camille in

01:36:11.280 on the act the next time.

01:36:12.600 Thanks for being here.

01:36:14.140 Thanks, Megan.

01:36:15.060 Thank you, Megan.

01:36:15.740 All right, guys.

01:36:16.820 Monday on the show,

01:36:17.540 we're going to have

01:36:17.800 a close look at

01:36:18.380 all the new developments

01:36:19.160 in the Idaho College

01:36:20.320 murders case

01:36:21.020 and then I'm going to

01:36:21.820 take a little vacation.

01:36:23.160 All right,

01:36:23.460 before we go,

01:36:23.980 have a happy St. Patrick's Day

01:36:25.360 and a happy weekend.

01:36:30.160 Thanks for listening

01:36:30.860 to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:36:31.960 No BS,

01:36:32.980 no agenda

01:36:33.620 and no fear.

01:36:34.740 Thank you.

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 17, 2023

Jussie Smollett Attack Reenactment, How Stanford Employee’s Rape Allegations Became Lies, with the Fifth Column Hosts ｜ Ep. 514

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