The Megyn Kelly Show - March 17, 2023


Jussie Smollett Attack Reenactment, How Stanford Employee’s Rape Allegations Became Lies, with the Fifth Column Hosts | Ep. 514


Episode Stats

Length

1 hour and 37 minutes

Words per Minute

186.1068

Word Count

18,067

Sentence Count

1,251

Misogynist Sentences

58

Hate Speech Sentences

73


Summary

Two alleged rape cases at Stanford University turned out to be nothing but lies. Why haven t you heard this in every corner of the media? Why aren t you hearing more about it? Why isn t the group at Stanford that s been protesting that Stanford supports rapists saying it s sorry for maligning its university and the administrators? We ll get to it.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Now streaming on Paramount Plus.
00:00:02.860 Someone is trying to frame us.
00:00:05.160 Until our names are cleared.
00:00:07.700 We're fugitives from interval.
00:00:09.480 Like Bonnie and Clyde with better snacks.
00:00:12.840 Espionage?
00:00:13.560 You still as good a shot as you used to be?
00:00:16.540 Better.
00:00:17.380 Is there love language?
00:00:18.860 We like to walk that fine line between techno-thriller
00:00:21.360 and romantic comedy.
00:00:24.180 We make up our own rules.
00:00:25.940 NCIS Tony and Ziva.
00:00:27.400 Now streaming on Paramount Plus.
00:00:30.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal
00:00:32.300 on a wool coat from Winner's,
00:00:33.920 I started wondering,
00:00:35.580 is every fabulous item I see from Winner's?
00:00:38.680 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans.
00:00:41.400 Are those from Winner's?
00:00:42.940 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings.
00:00:45.380 Did she pay full price?
00:00:46.740 Or that leather tote?
00:00:47.740 Or that cashmere sweater?
00:00:48.940 Or those knee-high boots?
00:00:50.380 That dress?
00:00:51.220 That jacket?
00:00:51.880 Those shoes?
00:00:52.900 Is anyone paying full price for anything?
00:00:55.400 Stop wondering.
00:00:57.160 Start winning.
00:00:58.080 Winners find fabulous for less.
00:01:00.840 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.
00:01:02.660 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
00:01:12.240 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.
00:01:13.880 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.
00:01:15.360 It may be a Friday, but boy, do we have a ton of news to cover.
00:01:19.360 We're going to go in-depth on the incredible story
00:01:21.820 of how two alleged rapes at Stanford University
00:01:26.420 turned out to be nothing but lies.
00:01:29.920 Absolute hoaxes.
00:01:31.580 Why haven't you heard this in every corner of the media?
00:01:34.300 Why aren't you hearing more about it, right?
00:01:35.800 Why isn't the group at Stanford that's been protesting
00:01:38.800 that Stanford supports rapists
00:01:40.800 saying it's sorry for maligning its university
00:01:44.120 and the administrators?
00:01:45.160 We'll get to it.
00:01:45.760 And some top anti-racism activists
00:01:48.420 openly admitting businesses don't want them
00:01:52.560 and that they are growing more and more uncomfortable,
00:01:55.620 corporations are, with the messages
00:01:57.520 the Robin DiAngelo's of the world are selling.
00:02:00.400 We have it on tape, on camera, and we'll show it to you.
00:02:04.360 Joining me now, two of our three friends
00:02:06.400 from The Fifth Column Podcast,
00:02:08.660 which is available at wethefifth.substack.com.
00:02:12.520 Michael Moynihan and Matt Welsh are here.
00:02:14.440 Guys, welcome back to the show.
00:02:16.400 Thanks for having us.
00:02:17.860 Hi, Megan.
00:02:18.420 I'm very intrigued by your background
00:02:20.480 in the filing cabinet closet.
00:02:23.120 Yes, I'm live from Montana for the fifth day.
00:02:27.700 My kids have spring break,
00:02:29.260 so I decided to work for the first week
00:02:31.200 and then I'll be off next week for four of the days anyway.
00:02:34.080 But anyway, I'm in my bedroom.
00:02:36.020 I'm in my bedroom and we just shoved some bookcases back here
00:02:38.320 with some books and it looks pretty decent.
00:02:40.460 It's not bad.
00:02:41.080 It makes you look very learneded, I have to say,
00:02:43.040 rather than just having the closet there.
00:02:45.360 It was funny because I wanted it to be kind of pretty,
00:02:47.900 so I only pulled the white books.
00:02:49.740 But we tried it with a blue and a red,
00:02:52.100 but it was too distracting.
00:02:53.200 So we went for something more.
00:02:53.440 Lays off the hair.
00:02:55.060 Yeah, yeah.
00:02:55.920 By the way, the book's over my shoulder.
00:02:57.360 I haven't read a single one of them.
00:03:00.960 I confess I have read a lot of these,
00:03:02.580 but so has my husband, Doug.
00:03:03.540 It wasn't all me.
00:03:04.520 What happened to Camille?
00:03:05.500 Where is he?
00:03:05.980 He missed a couple of Fifth Column podcasts.
00:03:07.720 What's he doing?
00:03:10.420 He's got better things to do.
00:03:11.620 He tells us he's in Chile.
00:03:13.100 I don't know.
00:03:13.380 He's fomenting a revolution or something.
00:03:15.020 Who knows?
00:03:15.580 Every time you turn around,
00:03:16.620 the guy's at a conference.
00:03:17.940 You look at his Instagram feed
00:03:20.500 and there's like these really elaborate
00:03:23.120 mountaintop telescopes and hammer crews.
00:03:27.820 So we're in the don't ask, don't tell.
00:03:30.540 We literally have our idea.
00:03:31.720 Got it.
00:03:32.800 We'll find out when we get the call
00:03:34.520 asking for like a bailout
00:03:36.160 once the Chileans get their hands on him.
00:03:38.760 Okay.
00:03:39.280 So let's talk about campus craziness
00:03:41.420 because this really is insane.
00:03:43.860 This story out of Stanford is,
00:03:45.880 I've been dying to get to it
00:03:47.340 and you guys are the perfect guys
00:03:48.720 to talk to about it.
00:03:49.980 I know.
00:03:50.380 Exactly.
00:03:50.880 Stanford's had a rough month.
00:03:53.100 So let me take you back.
00:03:54.540 Okay.
00:03:55.020 This totally reminds me of the Duke case.
00:03:57.900 August, 2022.
00:03:59.540 So last August, right?
00:04:01.720 Alleged rape on the campus
00:04:04.060 of Stanford University.
00:04:05.840 The Stanford Daily,
00:04:06.920 their student newspaper,
00:04:07.960 reports that an unknown male perpetrator
00:04:10.820 raped an adult female at a parking lot
00:04:13.040 near Wilbur Hall on Tuesday evening,
00:04:16.660 according to a report made
00:04:17.760 to the Stanford University
00:04:18.900 Department of Public Safety.
00:04:20.460 The victim does not know the perpetrator,
00:04:22.440 but did report this to a mandatory reporter
00:04:24.360 that she told that she'd previously seen
00:04:27.220 this guy on campus.
00:04:28.600 The victim describes the perpetrator
00:04:30.120 as a six foot tall black man
00:04:32.620 with a thin build,
00:04:34.440 brown eyes,
00:04:35.120 and a faded beard.
00:04:36.460 The victim says she was physically restrained,
00:04:39.140 taken to a restroom
00:04:40.160 where she was raped,
00:04:41.940 according, again,
00:04:42.800 to this mandatory reporter.
00:04:44.280 I think she told a nurse
00:04:45.140 who then contacted campus security.
00:04:47.240 That's how it went.
00:04:48.160 And the woman knew
00:04:48.740 that she would contact campus security
00:04:50.260 and also knew that the police
00:04:51.480 would have to be called.
00:04:52.660 But the woman said
00:04:53.360 she did not want to speak personally
00:04:55.220 with law enforcement at this time.
00:04:58.240 All right.
00:04:58.880 Horrible.
00:04:59.540 She's been raped.
00:05:00.780 She was taken into a,
00:05:02.400 you know,
00:05:02.560 grabbed at a parking lot
00:05:03.720 and taken to a restroom.
00:05:05.000 Sounds terrible.
00:05:06.840 Already the students are outraged
00:05:08.500 on the on the campus of Stanford.
00:05:10.020 They blame the university.
00:05:11.180 You're not protecting us.
00:05:12.620 Stanford's not safe.
00:05:13.480 How dare you allow this
00:05:14.500 to happen to this woman?
00:05:16.300 But it's all very sketchy.
00:05:18.400 Flash forward just a couple of months,
00:05:20.160 August to September to October.
00:05:21.780 So it's two months later of 2022.
00:05:26.060 Another sexual assault,
00:05:27.920 a male perpetrator
00:05:28.660 sexually assaulted an adult woman
00:05:30.160 in the basement
00:05:31.360 of a university building
00:05:32.440 on Friday afternoon.
00:05:33.760 I'm back from the Stanford Daily quoting,
00:05:36.200 according to a report
00:05:36.940 made by a mandatory reporter,
00:05:39.220 meaning I think a nurse again,
00:05:40.980 who brought the allegation
00:05:41.940 to the Department of Public Safety
00:05:43.440 on campus.
00:05:44.860 The adult victim
00:05:45.500 told this mandatory reporter
00:05:46.680 she was in her office
00:05:47.720 when an adult male grabbed
00:05:49.780 and forced her to a basement.
00:05:51.780 Or he raped her.
00:05:53.540 The victim does not want to provide
00:05:54.860 a statement to law enforcement.
00:05:56.040 Now, as far as we can tell, guys,
00:05:57.860 said victim.
00:06:00.020 Well, let me put it this way.
00:06:01.560 The reports on said victim
00:06:03.060 did not make clear to the public
00:06:04.660 that it was the same woman.
00:06:07.480 It's the same woman.
00:06:09.160 And you tell me what the odds are
00:06:10.640 that the same woman
00:06:12.060 within the course of two months
00:06:13.920 gets randomly grabbed,
00:06:16.140 dragged to a second location
00:06:17.340 and raped on campus.
00:06:19.340 OK, and also doesn't want
00:06:20.760 to talk to cops.
00:06:21.860 This thing smelled
00:06:22.620 from the very start.
00:06:23.900 So either people fell down
00:06:25.460 in their reporting obligations
00:06:26.440 and covering it
00:06:27.260 or the people giving
00:06:28.540 the disclosures
00:06:29.300 fail to provide
00:06:30.580 necessary information
00:06:31.460 because the fact that
00:06:32.140 it was the same accuser
00:06:33.140 matters,
00:06:34.340 definitely matters.
00:06:36.600 Enter the outraged students.
00:06:39.260 They they're protesting
00:06:40.560 all over the campus.
00:06:41.680 They're outraged.
00:06:43.340 Campus Stanford loves rape.
00:06:45.880 Stanford University
00:06:46.500 is an accomplice to rape.
00:06:47.680 We deserve to feel safe.
00:06:49.720 So what does Stanford do?
00:06:51.280 They temporarily expand
00:06:52.920 the presence of security
00:06:54.720 on campus.
00:06:56.480 Are the students happy with that?
00:06:58.320 No, no, because cops
00:07:01.180 hate people of color
00:07:02.460 and cops make people feel unsafe.
00:07:05.140 So now they're pissed off
00:07:07.300 that Stanford started flooding
00:07:08.880 the field with more security presence.
00:07:10.540 And Stanford tries to appease
00:07:12.080 the lunatics by saying,
00:07:13.700 don't worry,
00:07:14.440 the security staff
00:07:16.040 have an understanding
00:07:17.040 of anti-bias protocols
00:07:18.880 and procedures.
00:07:20.780 So now you've got to worry
00:07:21.740 that your woke students
00:07:24.500 who are very worried about rape
00:07:25.980 are also worried about
00:07:27.500 whether the cops are racist
00:07:28.800 and they don't want to deal with it.
00:07:29.900 Who the hell is going to protect you
00:07:30.860 from the rapists
00:07:31.540 if it's not going to be the security?
00:07:33.140 All right.
00:07:33.400 Like we can't get enough
00:07:34.560 don't rape people training
00:07:36.280 out into the campus ether
00:07:38.720 in time to save everybody.
00:07:40.480 We might need some cops
00:07:41.480 to stop the actual crimes.
00:07:42.840 So that's where things stood
00:07:44.560 until, here we go,
00:07:48.260 flash forwarding to this week,
00:07:50.980 March 15th,
00:07:52.580 Santa Clara District Attorney.
00:07:54.280 We just did a long story
00:07:55.100 about Santa Clara
00:07:55.740 with David Zweig
00:07:56.620 and how this lunatic place
00:07:57.900 was spying on churchgoers,
00:08:00.080 infiltrating their prayer groups,
00:08:01.580 reporting on how
00:08:02.640 they were not wearing masks
00:08:04.300 and they were having
00:08:05.020 too many people at their church
00:08:06.060 even when they shouldn't have
00:08:06.780 during COVID.
00:08:07.660 This place is a lunatic fringe place
00:08:09.840 and it's where Stanford is
00:08:11.220 and it's sort of Palo Alto,
00:08:12.320 that area.
00:08:12.980 California.
00:08:14.540 DA announces charges
00:08:16.120 against Jennifer Grease,
00:08:18.620 G-R-I-E-S.
00:08:20.060 No pictures available
00:08:21.040 of this woman,
00:08:21.840 but I have to ask,
00:08:23.300 I do wonder.
00:08:24.700 She's 25 years old,
00:08:25.940 she worked for the university,
00:08:27.060 and she has accused
00:08:28.420 a black man
00:08:29.120 of raping her twice.
00:08:30.780 I can't help but wonder
00:08:32.160 if this woman were white,
00:08:33.980 whether they would have
00:08:34.600 found a way of releasing
00:08:35.860 her photograph to everybody.
00:08:37.380 A white woman
00:08:37.820 accusing a black man
00:08:38.700 with unfounded allegations
00:08:39.960 of double rape.
00:08:41.640 So where's the picture
00:08:42.520 of Jennifer Grease?
00:08:43.180 I'd love to see it
00:08:43.880 because they make all this stuff
00:08:45.620 about race,
00:08:46.360 but not this one.
00:08:47.080 Why?
00:08:47.640 Let's find out.
00:08:48.560 Let's know everything
00:08:49.220 there is to know
00:08:49.720 about Jennifer Grease,
00:08:50.600 who ought to be
00:08:51.580 thrown in prison
00:08:53.340 for years
00:08:54.100 for doing this.
00:08:55.120 She's being charged
00:08:57.520 with two felony counts
00:08:58.460 of perjury,
00:08:59.000 two misdemeanor counts
00:08:59.780 of knowingly inducing
00:09:00.560 another person
00:09:01.040 to give false testimony.
00:09:02.640 She is a Stanford
00:09:03.460 Housing Services employee.
00:09:06.060 She's an employee
00:09:06.580 of the building.
00:09:07.700 And let me go on.
00:09:09.420 This is not her first time
00:09:10.460 making up lies
00:09:11.280 about what appears
00:09:12.720 to be her male co-worker
00:09:14.100 who she was out to get.
00:09:16.040 Last March,
00:09:16.620 she made a sexual harassment
00:09:17.740 complaint against this guy.
00:09:19.260 They were found
00:09:19.700 to be unsubstantiated,
00:09:21.380 and she was moved
00:09:22.080 to a different work location,
00:09:23.420 but not fired.
00:09:24.040 She has a history
00:09:25.280 of lying separate and apart
00:09:26.440 from that allegation
00:09:27.700 about her relationship
00:09:29.140 with this man
00:09:29.660 who was unnamed
00:09:30.180 in the documents.
00:09:30.860 She told one co-worker
00:09:31.700 she was in a relationship
00:09:32.940 with him,
00:09:33.380 but that he had sexually
00:09:34.280 assaulted her.
00:09:35.300 This is another time.
00:09:36.560 All right.
00:09:36.760 Now, an alleged allegation
00:09:37.960 of sexual harassment,
00:09:39.560 which wasn't substantiated,
00:09:40.960 two allegations of rape,
00:09:42.220 which are false,
00:09:43.200 an allegation of sexual assault
00:09:44.580 separate from those
00:09:45.680 that left her pregnant
00:09:46.860 with his twins
00:09:47.660 before she suffered
00:09:48.460 a miscarriage.
00:09:49.500 Another lie disproved,
00:09:51.300 according to the authorities,
00:09:52.300 by medical records.
00:09:53.360 Then they find her text
00:09:54.920 to a friend,
00:09:55.640 quote,
00:09:56.680 Can't I just make his life
00:09:57.880 a living hell myself?
00:09:59.620 She texted her co-worker
00:10:00.860 about the alleged assault.
00:10:02.060 I need to start
00:10:02.680 standing up for myself.
00:10:03.580 I'm so annoyed.
00:10:04.680 I'm coming up with a plan.
00:10:06.080 That way,
00:10:06.640 he's shitting in his pants
00:10:07.740 for multiple days.
00:10:09.700 Eventually,
00:10:10.260 prosecutors got their hands
00:10:11.120 on her in January.
00:10:12.300 She admitted
00:10:12.920 it was all a lie
00:10:14.640 after Stanford
00:10:16.580 had spent $300,000
00:10:18.160 investigating her case.
00:10:20.340 Even though she never
00:10:21.200 named the co-worker
00:10:21.860 as her false attacker,
00:10:23.060 she refused to rule him out
00:10:24.180 when asked point blank,
00:10:24.940 and it was clear,
00:10:25.480 given her history,
00:10:26.120 who she was talking about.
00:10:27.940 By the way,
00:10:28.780 she also was awarded
00:10:30.020 public money
00:10:30.860 through the California
00:10:31.960 Victim of Crimes Board,
00:10:33.560 according to the filing.
00:10:34.800 They say she may have received
00:10:36.560 up to $70,000
00:10:38.360 for these false claims,
00:10:40.200 and now she has been placed
00:10:42.320 on a leave of absence,
00:10:44.460 but not yet fired,
00:10:46.280 though her employment
00:10:47.620 is under review.
00:10:49.960 The activists,
00:10:51.440 not satisfied.
00:10:52.840 What they have done
00:10:53.660 is taken to
00:10:55.020 the public square
00:10:56.040 to say,
00:10:57.100 this is from the
00:10:57.580 Sexual Violence
00:10:58.360 Free Stanford group,
00:11:00.000 we unequivocally reaffirm
00:11:01.420 that Stanford
00:11:02.060 neglects survivors.
00:11:04.020 40% of women
00:11:04.960 identified undergraduate
00:11:05.740 students at Stanford
00:11:06.620 will be sexually violated
00:11:07.860 during their term
00:11:08.640 on campus.
00:11:10.180 It's not true.
00:11:11.060 No, they won't, right?
00:11:12.420 This protest was not
00:11:13.220 for one survivor,
00:11:14.060 but for all survivors.
00:11:15.780 Sexual Violence
00:11:16.400 Free Stanford
00:11:16.880 reaffirms our opposition
00:11:18.160 to increased security
00:11:19.660 as well,
00:11:20.460 which does nothing
00:11:21.180 but put gender
00:11:21.920 and racially marginalized
00:11:22.780 students at risk
00:11:24.200 for harmful interactions.
00:11:25.600 These people are insane.
00:11:28.160 I'll let you guys take it.
00:11:28.840 The cult.
00:11:29.620 Yeah.
00:11:30.700 God, I mean,
00:11:31.280 where does one begin?
00:11:32.300 I mean,
00:11:32.560 you just told me
00:11:34.340 something I didn't know.
00:11:35.400 I've been reading
00:11:36.260 about this a little bit.
00:11:37.520 I didn't know
00:11:37.960 the accuser wasn't white
00:11:39.740 because that actually does...
00:11:41.760 I don't know that.
00:11:42.260 It's my speculation.
00:11:42.840 I don't know that either.
00:11:43.740 I believe if she were white,
00:11:45.460 we'd be seeing her picture.
00:11:47.260 Right.
00:11:47.720 I mean,
00:11:47.900 there'd be a lot of
00:11:48.400 Emmett Till comparisons.
00:11:49.780 We would have...
00:11:50.460 I mean,
00:11:50.780 the fact that I know
00:11:51.680 the name Mike Nifong
00:11:53.040 tells you a little something
00:11:54.600 about what happens
00:11:55.340 when the racial dynamics
00:11:56.360 are that kind of polarizing
00:11:57.660 and that sharp
00:11:58.160 because that was,
00:11:59.380 of course,
00:11:59.540 the Duke Lacrosse case.
00:12:01.280 You know,
00:12:01.440 you see these kids
00:12:02.420 that go out there
00:12:03.040 and they're kind of desperate.
00:12:04.660 They actually...
00:12:05.580 Unlike me,
00:12:06.220 I don't want these things
00:12:07.240 to be true.
00:12:08.160 I don't want these things
00:12:09.320 to happen.
00:12:10.300 But the second there's
00:12:11.220 an idea of it,
00:12:13.060 it's you're out on the campus
00:12:14.340 saying Stanford protects rapists.
00:12:17.040 Well,
00:12:17.260 let's not protect them.
00:12:18.540 Let's have some police
00:12:19.460 come in here.
00:12:20.160 Well,
00:12:20.240 we don't want the police.
00:12:21.040 Now,
00:12:21.200 what do you want
00:12:22.280 at this point?
00:12:23.480 What is the actual solution?
00:12:24.920 And of course,
00:12:25.780 there's a farrago
00:12:26.540 of bullshit statistics too.
00:12:28.620 And if you look at,
00:12:29.840 you know,
00:12:30.020 there's a number
00:12:30.460 of great books
00:12:31.260 about this
00:12:31.860 going all the way back
00:12:32.860 to the 90s
00:12:34.440 that have been going on
00:12:35.620 about these numbers
00:12:36.460 that are just false
00:12:37.400 that 40%,
00:12:38.580 50% of kids
00:12:40.000 on campus
00:12:41.020 will get raped.
00:12:42.280 And by the way,
00:12:43.220 how this happens
00:12:44.060 is they allow people
00:12:45.680 to themselves identify
00:12:47.360 what is uncomfortable
00:12:48.960 and then they recategorize it
00:12:50.720 as sexual assault.
00:12:53.360 You know,
00:12:53.700 it is really strange
00:12:55.400 because if you have,
00:12:56.100 there was a documentary,
00:12:58.280 I think CNN Films,
00:12:59.740 I shouldn't say dope quote me
00:13:00.860 because I'm on the radio now,
00:13:02.200 but I think it was CNN Films
00:13:03.300 that came up with a film
00:13:03.880 called The Hunting Ground.
00:13:05.440 Do you remember this?
00:13:06.460 And it was about on campus.
00:13:08.620 It was about rapes on campus.
00:13:10.180 Now imagine
00:13:10.760 just the very premise of this.
00:13:12.360 You're starting with kids,
00:13:13.920 people sending their kids
00:13:15.040 to school
00:13:15.640 and they're saying
00:13:16.320 they're going to a hunting ground.
00:13:18.140 That's what it's like there.
00:13:19.600 And there was a woman
00:13:20.920 named Emily Yoffe,
00:13:21.760 fantastic journalist at Slate
00:13:23.140 who actually looked
00:13:23.760 at all the cases here
00:13:24.600 and said almost everyone
00:13:26.780 was either not clear
00:13:28.580 or might have been BS.
00:13:30.380 And the one thing
00:13:30.980 that I noticed
00:13:31.480 about all of these stories
00:13:33.500 about it,
00:13:33.980 there was one on NBC,
00:13:34.640 that in the first
00:13:36.680 two or three paragraphs,
00:13:37.580 they do the throat clearing
00:13:38.940 and say,
00:13:39.320 this almost never happens.
00:13:40.980 False claims
00:13:41.600 almost never happen.
00:13:43.060 Well, that's,
00:13:44.100 the numbers on this
00:13:45.260 are also incredible too.
00:13:46.460 But let me give you
00:13:47.200 one little data point
00:13:48.060 about this.
00:13:48.640 Just a personal data point
00:13:49.800 from the past couple of days.
00:13:50.920 Within the past two days,
00:13:52.520 I have seen three stories,
00:13:54.360 three stories in the media
00:13:56.040 about people being arrested
00:13:58.200 for making false claims of rape.
00:14:00.500 One very, very big case
00:14:01.920 in England.
00:14:02.540 And the guy,
00:14:03.000 one of the guys
00:14:03.340 that was accused said,
00:14:04.180 the activist refused
00:14:05.640 to believe that I'm innocent.
00:14:07.000 They're still harassing me
00:14:08.240 despite the fact
00:14:08.820 the police have said this.
00:14:09.780 A woman in Tampa
00:14:11.300 who said she was tied up.
00:14:14.020 And then of course,
00:14:14.780 they found a video
00:14:15.400 of her buying the rope
00:14:16.420 at Walgreens,
00:14:18.240 at Walmart.
00:14:19.060 And this was just yesterday.
00:14:20.500 She's being prosecuted.
00:14:21.660 Then this woman in Sanford.
00:14:22.960 To say that this stuff
00:14:23.880 never happens,
00:14:24.980 well, is it rare?
00:14:26.300 Who knows?
00:14:27.020 Probably.
00:14:28.100 But when you empower people
00:14:30.060 and say that
00:14:30.780 if you don't talk to the police,
00:14:32.460 we understand why.
00:14:33.820 If you don't want to report this
00:14:34.900 to the police,
00:14:35.420 we understand the trauma,
00:14:36.620 we understand why.
00:14:37.820 And if you empower people
00:14:38.920 that all of the belief
00:14:40.400 will be on your side
00:14:41.500 and the ultimate result
00:14:43.080 is that the person
00:14:43.720 that you don't like
00:14:44.400 or the person
00:14:45.060 that you're trying to persecute
00:14:46.420 will just be ruined
00:14:47.880 out of the gate.
00:14:50.100 You don't have to prove anything.
00:14:51.360 We have to disprove it.
00:14:53.000 And then when the damage is done,
00:14:54.640 you know, sorry.
00:14:55.400 And, you know,
00:14:56.460 the administration
00:14:56.900 won't even fire her.
00:14:58.120 The kids who went out there
00:14:59.380 and protested won't say,
00:15:00.860 yeah, maybe a little more skepticism
00:15:02.420 next time.
00:15:03.160 No, no, no.
00:15:03.540 It's the narrative
00:15:04.480 that demands the response.
00:15:07.420 It's not the truth.
00:15:08.440 The narrative is what
00:15:09.280 people are interested in.
00:15:11.100 One of the lessons from...
00:15:12.700 That's exactly right.
00:15:12.720 And that, well,
00:15:13.020 just to give you
00:15:14.120 one other detail,
00:15:15.160 the university,
00:15:15.820 rather than saying
00:15:16.640 some caution may be in order,
00:15:18.640 you know,
00:15:18.940 we're still investigating,
00:15:20.820 instead of doing that,
00:15:21.720 they put out a statement
00:15:22.560 to explain why
00:15:24.200 these reports were so vague
00:15:26.380 and she wasn't talking
00:15:27.700 to the cops.
00:15:28.840 And their statement
00:15:29.720 notably did not list
00:15:30.960 she might be a liar.
00:15:33.640 Did you notice my edit there?
00:15:35.160 Lent,
00:15:35.500 I edited out my F-bomb mom.
00:15:38.360 Here's what they said.
00:15:39.760 There are a variety of reasons
00:15:40.680 why a victim may not disclose
00:15:41.720 information about a crime.
00:15:42.940 Many victims need time
00:15:43.780 to process what occurred.
00:15:45.000 For some,
00:15:45.360 the trauma of a crime
00:15:46.260 impacts their ability
00:15:47.080 to recall information.
00:15:48.400 Currently,
00:15:48.820 the victim,
00:15:49.220 okay,
00:15:50.300 alleged?
00:15:50.920 How about alleged?
00:15:52.100 The victim,
00:15:53.220 who reported being assaulted yesterday,
00:15:54.820 has chosen not to share information
00:15:56.140 about the crime
00:15:56.580 with the police at this time.
00:15:57.960 This also remains the case
00:15:59.020 for the August report,
00:16:00.820 which remains under investigation.
00:16:02.560 Again,
00:16:03.000 not disclosing,
00:16:04.040 it's the same woman.
00:16:05.120 It's the same person.
00:16:05.940 Right?
00:16:06.820 Like,
00:16:07.580 no one's flagging,
00:16:09.060 this woman may be a damn liar.
00:16:10.980 Go ahead, Matt.
00:16:11.660 Yeah.
00:16:14.000 I mean,
00:16:14.860 if there's a victim here,
00:16:16.920 it's whoever's accused
00:16:17.860 of being a rapist.
00:16:20.380 This poor guy
00:16:21.280 had like a stalker.
00:16:22.360 He had like a Glenn Close situation
00:16:23.840 going on in his life.
00:16:25.380 And his life could have been ruined.
00:16:26.680 That doesn't sound very fun.
00:16:27.480 Minus the awesome,
00:16:28.680 like,
00:16:29.040 80s sex,
00:16:29.900 too.
00:16:30.560 So,
00:16:31.260 perhaps the most tragic thing.
00:16:34.320 No,
00:16:35.040 a thing that,
00:16:35.760 that the field of,
00:16:37.680 the academic field
00:16:38.540 of economics,
00:16:40.260 which Stanford used to be
00:16:41.260 really good at,
00:16:42.100 as well as a bunch of other things,
00:16:43.580 who was,
00:16:44.240 once great university there
00:16:45.540 in California,
00:16:46.440 but what economics
00:16:47.940 teaches us
00:16:48.680 is not just about
00:16:49.780 like fiscal policy.
00:16:50.880 It teaches us
00:16:51.960 that everywhere in life,
00:16:53.520 people respond
00:16:54.680 to incentives.
00:16:56.700 And,
00:16:57.000 and also they respond
00:16:58.240 to the removal
00:16:58.880 of incentives,
00:17:00.120 the removal
00:17:00.600 of,
00:17:01.600 of certain guardrails
00:17:03.120 on the way that we behave
00:17:04.300 and walk through life.
00:17:05.280 And so,
00:17:06.180 what has happened
00:17:07.120 serially
00:17:08.500 on college campuses,
00:17:10.000 especially
00:17:10.300 since the Obama administration,
00:17:12.940 well,
00:17:13.340 they made it easier.
00:17:14.780 They changed
00:17:15.380 the incentive structure
00:17:16.280 for people
00:17:16.760 to make accusations
00:17:17.640 about sexual assault,
00:17:19.900 where,
00:17:20.980 and they also removed
00:17:22.300 the ability
00:17:22.960 back then
00:17:24.200 of people
00:17:25.000 who were accused
00:17:25.800 in these cases
00:17:27.000 to be able
00:17:28.380 to face
00:17:29.080 their accuser
00:17:30.620 or even the evidence,
00:17:31.360 to refute the evidence
00:17:32.140 that was subjected
00:17:33.420 to them.
00:17:34.000 So,
00:17:34.260 they rewrote
00:17:35.120 Title IX,
00:17:36.080 basically,
00:17:36.920 back then
00:17:37.700 to do that.
00:17:38.220 That was then
00:17:38.620 reversed under Trump
00:17:39.440 and Betsy DeVos,
00:17:40.340 and now the Biden
00:17:41.040 administration
00:17:41.380 is going the other way.
00:17:42.240 But if you remove
00:17:43.400 the incentive
00:17:43.980 that there might
00:17:45.680 be punishment
00:17:46.280 to lying,
00:17:47.920 and you also
00:17:48.540 simultaneously,
00:17:49.640 and not all incentives
00:17:50.300 are like laws
00:17:51.300 and punishments,
00:17:52.920 some incentives
00:17:53.580 are given socially.
00:17:55.620 If you increase
00:17:56.520 the incentive,
00:17:57.400 you increase
00:17:57.940 the reward structure
00:17:58.940 for declaring
00:18:00.740 yourself a victim,
00:18:02.100 then what are
00:18:03.200 people going to do?
00:18:04.260 You're going to see
00:18:05.040 more of this.
00:18:06.060 Yes,
00:18:06.340 it is rare
00:18:06.960 for this to be prosecuted,
00:18:08.840 for people to be
00:18:09.620 prosecuted for perjury,
00:18:10.800 and when you first
00:18:11.600 sent us the story,
00:18:12.320 I was like,
00:18:12.620 okay,
00:18:13.000 that is,
00:18:13.880 this is strange,
00:18:15.160 is the tide turning
00:18:16.220 on these types of things?
00:18:17.560 But no,
00:18:18.100 because you look at
00:18:18.960 the history,
00:18:19.820 she lied so much.
00:18:21.620 There has to be
00:18:22.780 such a track record
00:18:23.760 of crazy lying
00:18:25.180 to get to the point
00:18:25.960 where this stuff
00:18:26.460 is prosecuted.
00:18:28.100 That's why she
00:18:29.140 finds herself
00:18:29.880 in the crosshairs,
00:18:30.920 but we have changed
00:18:32.480 the incentive structure
00:18:33.380 in such a way
00:18:34.500 where this is
00:18:35.780 inevitable
00:18:36.720 to have more
00:18:37.740 of these things.
00:18:39.180 And I wasn't
00:18:40.320 kidding being flip
00:18:41.440 about the victim thing.
00:18:43.580 Talking about
00:18:44.300 Emily Off
00:18:44.960 and other people
00:18:45.640 who've reported
00:18:46.560 on campus sexual assault,
00:18:48.180 Kathy Young as well.
00:18:49.840 There's been a lot
00:18:50.540 of people,
00:18:51.260 predominantly
00:18:51.880 immigrant men
00:18:53.480 of color,
00:18:54.580 who have suffered
00:18:55.720 horrible consequences
00:18:57.020 for things
00:18:58.380 that they likely
00:18:59.360 didn't do,
00:18:59.900 at least not as described.
00:19:00.940 They got kicked
00:19:01.380 out of their schools
00:19:02.100 because of these
00:19:03.620 kind of kangaroo courts
00:19:04.840 that were allowed
00:19:05.780 to be convened
00:19:06.740 after these rules
00:19:07.760 were changed.
00:19:08.660 That's a problem.
00:19:09.420 If we care about
00:19:10.280 individual due process
00:19:11.300 and rights,
00:19:11.740 and that includes,
00:19:12.440 of course,
00:19:13.300 people who are
00:19:14.140 sexually assaulted
00:19:14.920 themselves
00:19:15.560 and who do,
00:19:17.440 might have
00:19:18.240 a lot of reticence
00:19:19.840 to report it
00:19:20.800 and they're suffering
00:19:21.720 from trauma,
00:19:22.520 but all of that
00:19:23.340 requires due process.
00:19:24.580 It doesn't require,
00:19:25.960 and it should not tolerate,
00:19:27.520 and it should not be
00:19:28.240 excused by activists
00:19:29.480 or anybody else
00:19:30.240 or the campus itself,
00:19:31.720 people who are being
00:19:33.400 so flippant
00:19:34.120 with the accusations.
00:19:35.260 Those people
00:19:35.940 are the ones
00:19:36.480 who are cheapening
00:19:37.400 everything
00:19:38.140 and making it
00:19:39.080 more possible
00:19:39.780 for malfeasance
00:19:40.660 to happen.
00:19:42.160 The bloodthirsty mob
00:19:43.660 doesn't care about facts.
00:19:45.440 You guys are right.
00:19:46.080 They care about the narrative.
00:19:47.540 And what's especially galling
00:19:48.900 is that on a lot
00:19:49.860 of these campuses,
00:19:50.520 this involved
00:19:51.180 a university employee,
00:19:52.640 but usually it's a student
00:19:54.120 making an allegation
00:19:55.180 against a fellow student.
00:19:56.620 What's really galling
00:19:57.440 is that on a lot
00:19:58.180 of these campuses,
00:19:59.240 they choose
00:19:59.900 your kangaroo court judges
00:20:01.620 for, you know,
00:20:02.780 to litigate your
00:20:03.820 allegation of sexual assault
00:20:05.080 from the victim
00:20:06.700 representative groups,
00:20:07.800 like from this
00:20:08.820 sexual violence
00:20:10.220 free Stanford.
00:20:11.420 That happens
00:20:12.180 on campus after campus
00:20:13.080 where they find
00:20:13.640 the judge, jury,
00:20:14.500 and executioners
00:20:15.240 from a group like that.
00:20:16.640 So how's a young man
00:20:18.520 going to fare
00:20:19.220 in front of these lunatics
00:20:20.740 who don't care?
00:20:22.820 They're still outraged
00:20:24.260 that anything
00:20:25.520 has ever happened
00:20:26.280 on a campus like Stanford,
00:20:27.280 not about what
00:20:28.500 this woman did,
00:20:29.840 how she almost
00:20:30.260 ruined a man's life,
00:20:31.760 but how she undermined
00:20:32.940 legitimate claims of rape.
00:20:34.340 And so the whole system
00:20:35.700 is set up
00:20:36.280 to evade due process
00:20:38.360 and just to get scalps.
00:20:40.120 That's what they want.
00:20:41.560 I mean,
00:20:41.700 to complain about this too
00:20:42.860 is typically
00:20:44.000 to get the response,
00:20:46.020 you can't make an omelet
00:20:47.440 without breaking a few eggs.
00:20:48.900 It's that, you know,
00:20:49.520 so what?
00:20:49.920 There's going to be
00:20:50.420 some people
00:20:50.920 that are going to be
00:20:52.220 unfairly treated.
00:20:52.980 But keep in mind
00:20:53.820 in these tribunals,
00:20:55.760 typically you're not allowed
00:20:57.140 to confront your accuser.
00:20:58.800 It's a, you know,
00:20:59.780 it's about a 50,
00:21:00.440 it's a 51%,
00:21:01.480 you know,
00:21:02.380 51% of people say,
00:21:05.580 you know,
00:21:05.720 it's not 100%.
00:21:06.420 You need to have a full jury
00:21:07.320 that agrees on this.
00:21:08.640 And what happens
00:21:09.160 to your life then
00:21:09.920 is anybody's guess.
00:21:11.300 Usually it's,
00:21:11.880 it's totally ruined.
00:21:13.420 And, you know,
00:21:13.800 the problem is,
00:21:14.580 again,
00:21:14.780 you're labeled a sex offender
00:21:15.900 and you almost never
00:21:16.820 prevail on appeal.
00:21:17.740 You can bring it
00:21:18.260 into federal court,
00:21:19.320 but they,
00:21:19.960 even if you win
00:21:20.460 in federal court,
00:21:21.080 universities don't
00:21:21.880 reverse themselves.
00:21:22.940 Sorry.
00:21:23.160 Yeah, there's,
00:21:24.040 in the kangaroo court,
00:21:25.080 there's no appeal too.
00:21:26.100 I mean,
00:21:26.260 you're on the universities.
00:21:27.340 These are not being
00:21:27.940 adjudicated by actual courts.
00:21:30.060 And they interject
00:21:31.740 sometimes in these cases,
00:21:33.880 which have been
00:21:34.840 documented very well,
00:21:36.160 these cases have been
00:21:37.260 cleared by cops.
00:21:39.340 They've been investigated
00:21:40.020 and found,
00:21:41.140 not just like,
00:21:41.780 oh,
00:21:41.860 there's not enough evidence.
00:21:42.780 No,
00:21:43.080 this didn't happen.
00:21:44.260 And yet they were still
00:21:44.980 adjudicated in such a way
00:21:46.240 on campus,
00:21:47.540 regardless of those findings.
00:21:48.700 And that's,
00:21:49.160 that's the phrase
00:21:49.860 that I was looking for,
00:21:50.560 preponderance of evidence,
00:21:51.860 which is,
00:21:52.200 you know,
00:21:52.300 51%.
00:21:53.000 But,
00:21:54.360 you know,
00:21:54.620 the problem with this
00:21:55.520 is that from people
00:21:56.280 in our perspective
00:21:57.020 and people in our business
00:21:58.120 of journalism is that
00:21:59.740 this is a binary thing
00:22:00.980 to people.
00:22:01.720 You either,
00:22:02.340 you know,
00:22:02.660 believe the victim
00:22:03.460 or you're some sort
00:22:04.320 of hate-filled monster
00:22:05.840 who wants to question
00:22:06.940 their story.
00:22:08.280 But the issue is,
00:22:09.540 is that,
00:22:09.880 you know,
00:22:10.060 a long time ago,
00:22:11.140 2014,
00:22:12.300 I think,
00:22:12.660 I wrote a piece
00:22:13.260 for the Daily Beast
00:22:13.920 and I went and I did a,
00:22:15.280 I think,
00:22:15.920 Jake Tapper show about this
00:22:17.060 and I might have mentioned
00:22:17.780 this here and here before
00:22:18.520 about the Sabrina Ergley story
00:22:20.940 in Rolling Stone
00:22:22.220 about the UVA rape case,
00:22:23.820 which was,
00:22:24.960 you know,
00:22:25.320 really just overwhelmed
00:22:26.700 the media
00:22:27.260 and I was the person
00:22:28.900 at the very beginning
00:22:29.880 who said,
00:22:30.300 I don't believe this
00:22:31.580 and that was a very
00:22:33.100 uncomfortable position
00:22:33.840 to be in.
00:22:34.640 And what you do
00:22:35.320 as a journalist
00:22:35.820 is you look at the evidence,
00:22:37.120 how it's presented to you
00:22:38.100 in a story
00:22:38.660 and you say,
00:22:39.740 like,
00:22:39.900 I can't tell,
00:22:40.800 I don't know,
00:22:41.180 but I have to go
00:22:41.940 on a sort of smell test.
00:22:43.380 If someone brings me
00:22:44.200 a piece as an editor,
00:22:45.340 I have to say,
00:22:46.120 like,
00:22:46.220 I don't know if this is true.
00:22:47.580 You need to back this up
00:22:49.040 a little more.
00:22:49.740 To say this in a case
00:22:50.660 like this
00:22:51.400 is considered
00:22:52.680 sort of a hate crime
00:22:53.840 because in the Rolling Stone case,
00:22:55.460 there was one little detail,
00:22:56.800 that somebody threw
00:22:57.660 a bottle at her.
00:22:58.920 They were harassing her
00:22:59.860 outside of a bar
00:23:00.480 and it sort of windmilled
00:23:02.400 across the street
00:23:03.560 and shattered on her head.
00:23:05.740 And I said,
00:23:06.380 that doesn't happen.
00:23:07.240 That's not how this works.
00:23:08.260 I'm not a physicist,
00:23:09.340 but this does not happen.
00:23:10.620 First thing,
00:23:11.400 but to say that
00:23:12.300 at this point,
00:23:13.340 and to your point,
00:23:14.140 Megan,
00:23:14.580 when you find out,
00:23:15.720 that's why I don't tell you,
00:23:16.400 when they find out
00:23:16.860 the person is saying,
00:23:17.980 I've been dragged
00:23:19.000 into various closets
00:23:20.100 over two weeks
00:23:20.960 and the same things
00:23:22.060 happen to me,
00:23:22.820 that's when
00:23:23.940 the smell test
00:23:24.860 is like,
00:23:25.300 oh,
00:23:25.640 but even if that were public,
00:23:28.040 I would caution people.
00:23:31.000 I mean,
00:23:31.340 you have to do it
00:23:32.100 as a journalist,
00:23:32.560 but I would prepare people
00:23:34.100 for the backlash
00:23:34.720 of saying,
00:23:36.120 well,
00:23:37.040 I don't know.
00:23:37.980 You can say that
00:23:38.480 about murderers,
00:23:39.820 people accused of murder.
00:23:41.160 You can say that
00:23:41.820 about people accused
00:23:42.880 or presenting
00:23:44.140 some other crime.
00:23:45.740 When it comes
00:23:46.500 to sexual assault,
00:23:47.780 we are supposed to,
00:23:48.700 as journalists,
00:23:49.500 just say,
00:23:49.880 we believe,
00:23:50.500 and remember
00:23:50.820 the Washington Post
00:23:51.480 had this headline
00:23:53.180 about believing women
00:23:55.000 and they ultimately changed
00:23:56.440 and said,
00:23:56.720 one must believe them.
00:23:58.220 And that is a very,
00:23:59.640 very odd formulation,
00:24:01.240 isn't it?
00:24:01.720 One must believe
00:24:02.540 50% of the population
00:24:03.980 in particular.
00:24:06.180 It's absolute madness.
00:24:08.200 And your job
00:24:08.620 as a journalist
00:24:09.160 is to be skeptical
00:24:10.340 all the time.
00:24:12.060 Yes.
00:24:12.180 I'm not saying
00:24:12.900 that this is happening
00:24:13.960 all the time,
00:24:14.580 but I'm just saying
00:24:15.460 that skepticism
00:24:16.240 is what we do
00:24:17.140 as journalists
00:24:18.480 and the crime itself
00:24:20.120 is a real crime.
00:24:21.520 It's a horrible crime
00:24:22.240 and one has to do
00:24:22.940 the throat clearing
00:24:23.380 about that
00:24:23.800 because you always
00:24:24.740 get accused
00:24:25.320 of just minimizing it
00:24:27.080 when you're doing
00:24:27.440 basic journalism
00:24:28.180 and basic skepticism.
00:24:29.400 I'll bet you
00:24:30.060 it's happening more now
00:24:31.320 post the Me Too movement
00:24:32.700 where women think
00:24:33.740 this is an arrow
00:24:36.860 in my quiver.
00:24:38.560 You know,
00:24:38.760 I can use this.
00:24:40.020 The culture has corrected
00:24:41.680 in some good ways,
00:24:43.040 you know,
00:24:43.200 in some good ways.
00:24:43.780 It used to be
00:24:44.200 back when I was in school.
00:24:46.140 The pendulum
00:24:46.760 was too far the other way
00:24:47.700 where it was basically
00:24:48.600 you couldn't prove anything
00:24:49.340 and you'd probably
00:24:50.160 never get any remedy
00:24:51.380 if you'd been attacked.
00:24:52.360 It was very, very hard.
00:24:53.600 So they overcorrected
00:24:54.460 and now we're still
00:24:55.460 in the overcorrection phase
00:24:56.400 to where we're ruining
00:24:57.080 men's lives
00:24:57.700 with no evidence.
00:24:58.900 There was a case
00:24:59.860 and I think it was Amherst
00:25:01.000 where the guy
00:25:01.540 didn't even get access
00:25:02.620 to his accuser's text messages
00:25:03.900 and they were full of
00:25:05.260 revelations that she was lying.
00:25:07.280 She was owning
00:25:07.920 that she was lying
00:25:08.700 and she was setting him up
00:25:09.480 and the guy never had access
00:25:10.360 to them
00:25:10.660 because of the kangaroo court system.
00:25:12.080 But in this case,
00:25:13.480 they did a rape test
00:25:15.920 on her,
00:25:17.140 you know,
00:25:17.300 the kit,
00:25:18.300 I guess,
00:25:20.260 from what I'm reading
00:25:21.260 after both of the allegations,
00:25:23.120 you know,
00:25:23.300 the one in August
00:25:23.960 and the one in October.
00:25:25.200 And they said
00:25:26.100 neither one came back
00:25:27.580 consistent with a rape.
00:25:28.860 So it sounds like
00:25:30.260 without knowing all the details,
00:25:31.360 they didn't find semen
00:25:32.440 or they certainly
00:25:33.280 didn't see anything
00:25:33.940 that was suggestive of a rape.
00:25:35.960 Why wasn't that disclosed?
00:25:37.620 Why wasn't like
00:25:38.280 or even if you don't
00:25:39.420 want to disclose that,
00:25:40.240 put something
00:25:41.240 into your public messaging
00:25:42.240 that gives the mob
00:25:43.680 some reason
00:25:44.460 or even just
00:25:45.600 reasonable minded people
00:25:46.600 reading about it,
00:25:47.580 some reason to understand
00:25:48.500 this may be a hoax.
00:25:50.020 You've got to understand
00:25:50.880 that is a possibility.
00:25:51.800 And to me,
00:25:52.600 just the biggest takeaway
00:25:53.340 is these poor,
00:25:54.760 poor guys
00:25:55.260 on these campuses
00:25:56.200 who,
00:25:57.560 can you imagine
00:25:58.320 being in college today,
00:25:59.580 you guys,
00:26:00.180 and having to deal
00:26:00.760 with this climate?
00:26:02.420 I mean,
00:26:03.060 not being in college
00:26:03.900 is also terrifying.
00:26:05.520 Just for the record.
00:26:06.480 I go everywhere
00:26:08.980 with forms,
00:26:10.360 you know,
00:26:11.200 with fingerprinting devices.
00:26:12.680 I just make sure,
00:26:13.600 like,
00:26:13.760 are we good?
00:26:14.860 My life is
00:26:15.660 into college.
00:26:16.240 Your little flower pen
00:26:16.400 recording everything.
00:26:18.400 I like the idea
00:26:19.120 that Moynihan
00:26:19.640 obviously doesn't know
00:26:20.340 anything about physics,
00:26:21.540 but he does know
00:26:22.520 how bottles of beer
00:26:24.380 when thrown
00:26:25.240 on people's craniums.
00:26:27.880 Trust me,
00:26:28.460 it was like
00:26:29.100 the Zapruder film.
00:26:30.120 We went and we shot
00:26:31.140 a, you know,
00:26:32.220 watermelon in the backyard
00:26:33.220 to see if we could
00:26:33.900 recreate the gunshots
00:26:35.940 at Dealey Plaza.
00:26:36.820 I was throwing
00:26:37.520 those things for weeks.
00:26:38.580 I said,
00:26:38.840 this can't be true.
00:26:41.720 Basic skepticism.
00:26:43.200 Come on.
00:26:44.400 We've got to go.
00:26:45.040 We've got to stay
00:26:45.440 on Stanford for a minute.
00:26:46.420 Oh, by the way,
00:26:47.000 I wanted to add this.
00:26:48.100 Heather McDonald,
00:26:48.940 she's brilliant.
00:26:49.620 She's done great reporting
00:26:50.480 on this alleged,
00:26:51.480 you know,
00:26:52.160 rampant sexual assault
00:26:53.180 on campuses issue.
00:26:54.440 Just Google Heather McDonald
00:26:55.580 and sexual assault on campus.
00:26:56.660 You come up
00:26:56.940 and she has a great book
00:26:57.640 on it and so on.
00:26:58.200 But she did point out
00:26:59.520 in one of her pieces
00:27:00.120 that the vast majority
00:27:02.780 of those in that
00:27:03.520 alleged 40%
00:27:04.840 who will experience
00:27:06.600 sexual violence
00:27:07.760 on campus
00:27:08.760 never report it.
00:27:11.000 Why is that?
00:27:11.640 Because there's a culture
00:27:12.400 against women?
00:27:13.200 No, it's because
00:27:14.060 she says the overwhelming
00:27:15.280 reason why the alleged
00:27:16.520 victims do not report
00:27:17.660 is that when you ask them,
00:27:19.980 they do not think
00:27:20.800 it was that serious.
00:27:22.400 It was like
00:27:23.020 some guy tried to kiss me
00:27:24.280 and I didn't want it.
00:27:25.220 You know,
00:27:25.400 some guy grabbed my ass
00:27:26.800 and I didn't want it.
00:27:27.600 These are not,
00:27:28.220 you know,
00:27:28.940 the activists
00:27:29.720 want you to believe
00:27:30.540 40% of the women
00:27:31.640 on college campuses
00:27:32.280 are going to get raped.
00:27:32.920 That's a lie.
00:27:34.660 You've got to look deeper
00:27:35.540 and actually I did
00:27:36.200 a long report for this
00:27:36.940 for special report
00:27:37.780 back when Brit Hume
00:27:38.480 was at the helm
00:27:39.100 years and years ago
00:27:40.440 and some of the ways
00:27:41.880 that sexual violence
00:27:42.880 or violence against women
00:27:43.720 is defined on campus
00:27:44.540 can include something
00:27:45.300 like just any unwanted
00:27:47.120 touching at all.
00:27:48.000 Like somebody grabs your arm
00:27:48.960 and you're in the 40%.
00:27:50.440 So all those stats
00:27:52.100 need to be taken
00:27:52.580 with a huge grain of salt.
00:27:54.200 All right,
00:27:54.280 so while we're on
00:27:54.920 the topic of Stanford,
00:27:56.420 let's go up
00:27:57.120 a couple of years
00:27:58.060 to the law school.
00:28:00.440 We had the head
00:28:01.300 of the Federalist Society,
00:28:02.400 which is the more
00:28:02.780 conservative-leaning group
00:28:03.620 within the law school
00:28:04.380 student body.
00:28:05.800 They invited this
00:28:06.740 Fifth Circuit judge
00:28:07.580 to come,
00:28:08.200 Judge Duncan,
00:28:08.960 speak to the students
00:28:09.700 on campus,
00:28:10.180 the Federalist Society.
00:28:11.180 Great, fine,
00:28:11.760 happens all the time.
00:28:12.380 He's more right-leaning.
00:28:13.400 So is the Federalist Society.
00:28:14.300 Works out fine.
00:28:15.180 Plenty of left-leaning
00:28:15.800 speakers on Stanford, too.
00:28:17.800 Nope,
00:28:18.040 the law students
00:28:18.520 couldn't take it.
00:28:19.360 Shouted him down.
00:28:20.620 Now David Latt,
00:28:22.080 who I believe
00:28:22.480 started above the law.
00:28:23.580 Now he's got a stub stack.
00:28:24.520 Yeah.
00:28:24.880 And he's a lawyer
00:28:25.680 slash reporter.
00:28:26.860 And he's gotten his hands
00:28:28.220 on the full audio
00:28:29.040 talking about how
00:28:29.860 Judge Duncan
00:28:30.540 takes to the lectern.
00:28:32.260 Students start making
00:28:33.320 gagging noises,
00:28:35.380 keep screaming out,
00:28:37.060 heckling,
00:28:37.760 boring,
00:28:38.480 we took con law,
00:28:39.640 and so on,
00:28:41.000 continuing to disrupt him.
00:28:42.340 And then it goes downhill
00:28:43.100 from there.
00:28:43.680 The guy was not able
00:28:44.360 to give his remarks.
00:28:45.240 Then that weird DEI lady
00:28:46.480 took the mic
00:28:47.060 with her prepared mark
00:28:48.220 she had written down,
00:28:49.040 hijacked the whole event,
00:28:49.940 lectured him.
00:28:50.900 It was so offensive.
00:28:52.300 Well then,
00:28:53.220 the law school dean,
00:28:54.040 Jenny Martinez,
00:28:55.300 apologized to the judge
00:28:56.540 saying,
00:28:57.460 you were treated
00:28:57.780 disrespectfully
00:28:58.420 and that behavior
00:28:59.360 is not consistent
00:28:59.980 with our approach,
00:29:01.740 our policy here on Stanford
00:29:02.920 when it comes to
00:29:03.540 allowing speech.
00:29:05.200 So she apologized to him
00:29:06.560 and she suggested
00:29:07.620 that this DEI gal
00:29:08.700 is under review too
00:29:09.820 because instead of
00:29:11.140 allowing the guy to speak
00:29:12.420 and preventing the disruptions,
00:29:14.020 she was disruptor in chief.
00:29:16.140 So this dean,
00:29:17.300 Martinez,
00:29:17.820 arrives to,
00:29:19.220 I think she also
00:29:20.100 was teaching Conlet.
00:29:21.100 She shows up to her classroom
00:29:22.440 after her apology
00:29:23.180 and she's not going to
00:29:24.040 and she finds
00:29:25.060 a whiteboard
00:29:26.040 covered inch to inch
00:29:27.760 in flyers
00:29:29.100 attacking the judge
00:29:30.740 and defending those
00:29:32.220 who disrupted him.
00:29:34.500 We,
00:29:35.180 the students
00:29:35.520 in your con law class
00:29:36.640 are sorry for exercising
00:29:38.040 our First Amendment rights.
00:29:40.700 The protests,
00:29:42.360 the protesters
00:29:42.880 who are apparently
00:29:44.180 in and outside
00:29:45.020 of her classroom,
00:29:46.420 this is just this past Monday,
00:29:48.180 they were dressed
00:29:48.860 in all black,
00:29:50.300 ready for the drama.
00:29:51.160 like these young people,
00:29:52.780 they love drama.
00:29:53.840 They dressed in black.
00:29:55.500 They wore face masks
00:29:56.820 that read,
00:29:57.860 counter speech
00:29:58.540 is free speech.
00:30:00.040 They stared silently
00:30:02.020 at Martinez
00:30:03.160 as she exited her class
00:30:04.840 at 11 a.m.
00:30:05.660 Oh, burn,
00:30:06.680 burned.
00:30:07.320 They,
00:30:07.660 or as the kids
00:30:08.500 would say today,
00:30:09.340 roasted.
00:30:10.080 She got roasted.
00:30:10.940 They stared.
00:30:11.800 They stared at her
00:30:12.580 while wearing their masks.
00:30:14.180 The student protesters
00:30:15.040 formed a human corridor
00:30:16.360 from Martinez's classroom
00:30:18.060 to the building's exit
00:30:19.120 comprising nearly
00:30:20.360 a third of the law school
00:30:21.740 who were very angry
00:30:23.040 with her.
00:30:24.760 The few who did not
00:30:26.240 join the protesters,
00:30:27.700 Evergreen,
00:30:28.240 this is just like Evergreen,
00:30:29.240 Brett Weinstein,
00:30:30.340 received the same stare down
00:30:31.920 as the professor
00:30:33.060 as they hurried
00:30:34.280 through the makeshift
00:30:35.060 walk of shame.
00:30:37.180 One of the students
00:30:38.020 who did not agree
00:30:38.960 and did not wear black
00:30:39.940 was quoted as saying,
00:30:41.680 they are creating
00:30:43.200 a hostile work environment,
00:30:44.320 a hostile environment here
00:30:45.220 for anyone who thinks
00:30:46.080 an Article 3 judge
00:30:46.940 should be able to speak
00:30:48.440 without heckling.
00:30:50.860 This also is an annoying story.
00:30:52.440 By the way,
00:30:52.740 that whole thing was quoted
00:30:53.420 from the Washington Free Beacon.
00:30:56.320 Can you go to college anymore?
00:30:58.400 Can you send your kid
00:30:59.460 to Stanford Law School?
00:31:01.260 Like,
00:31:01.620 all of this is about extremism
00:31:04.080 on campus
00:31:04.900 when it comes to woke ideologies.
00:31:08.280 And again,
00:31:08.700 we're talking about
00:31:09.060 Stanford Law School.
00:31:11.380 Stanford is not really known
00:31:13.200 historically
00:31:13.800 as the place
00:31:14.720 where you're,
00:31:15.780 it's not Evergreen.
00:31:17.480 It's not Reed College.
00:31:19.680 It's Stanford.
00:31:20.840 This is the West Coast
00:31:22.100 prestigious school.
00:31:23.700 This is the only
00:31:24.260 non-Ivy League school
00:31:25.740 that ever sends,
00:31:26.620 you know,
00:31:27.300 judges to the Supreme Court.
00:31:29.140 It's Stanford.
00:31:30.680 It has the Hoover Institution.
00:31:32.660 The Hoover Institution
00:31:33.720 is not an Evergreen
00:31:35.780 University institution.
00:31:37.360 It is center-right think tank
00:31:39.220 talking about important things.
00:31:41.160 Leland Stanford,
00:31:42.140 look him up.
00:31:43.060 Wasn't woke.
00:31:43.740 That's not where
00:31:45.520 this comes from.
00:31:46.420 I can't believe
00:31:47.100 that this is happening
00:31:48.360 in a law school,
00:31:51.220 any law school,
00:31:51.860 let alone Stanford, right?
00:31:53.000 This is,
00:31:53.420 this is undergraduate stuff.
00:31:55.320 This is what you do
00:31:56.120 in the seven years
00:31:57.700 that it takes you
00:31:58.380 to not graduate
00:31:59.240 from a four-year
00:32:00.060 university
00:32:00.500 is that you engage
00:32:02.740 in all kinds
00:32:03.540 of different protests.
00:32:04.500 at my school,
00:32:06.780 the UC Santa Barbara
00:32:07.820 is all about
00:32:09.040 protesting apartheid
00:32:10.480 and having shanty towns
00:32:11.620 and blocking
00:32:12.580 the oil platform
00:32:13.760 is great, right?
00:32:14.920 It's fun stuff
00:32:15.700 that you do
00:32:16.260 when you're an undergrad.
00:32:18.120 When you're in a law school,
00:32:19.600 you're preventing people
00:32:20.480 from talking
00:32:21.100 who are a judge.
00:32:23.500 What are you doing?
00:32:24.620 I don't understand
00:32:25.680 the process.
00:32:27.500 I,
00:32:27.580 granted,
00:32:28.600 I'm,
00:32:29.020 you know,
00:32:29.220 Megan,
00:32:29.500 I'm not a lawyer
00:32:30.520 like you,
00:32:31.200 but what I understand
00:32:32.600 from the law
00:32:33.360 is that it's
00:32:34.020 an adversarial process
00:32:35.380 in which people
00:32:36.140 make competing claims
00:32:37.360 and arguments
00:32:38.060 pinned on basic
00:32:40.440 sort of documents
00:32:41.140 and truths
00:32:42.060 under oath.
00:32:42.940 That seems like
00:32:43.940 a process
00:32:44.500 where you would need
00:32:45.380 to be able
00:32:45.880 to engage
00:32:46.520 with people
00:32:47.180 with whom
00:32:47.920 you have a disagreement
00:32:48.980 and try to convince
00:32:50.980 a neutral arbiter
00:32:52.580 of the righteousness
00:32:53.780 of your interpretation
00:32:55.360 of the truth.
00:32:56.300 I don't know
00:32:57.120 what making people
00:32:58.240 not talk
00:32:59.140 teaches you
00:33:00.220 in that process.
00:33:01.040 It's really
00:33:01.680 embarrassing
00:33:02.240 and to answer
00:33:03.800 your question,
00:33:04.940 I have a daughter
00:33:05.340 who's 14.
00:33:06.820 Gosh,
00:33:07.280 I hope she goes
00:33:07.760 to college
00:33:08.240 in Europe
00:33:08.900 where this hasn't
00:33:10.900 happened yet.
00:33:11.420 I don't know
00:33:12.400 if there's any better
00:33:12.900 over there.
00:33:13.960 But I will say,
00:33:14.940 you know,
00:33:15.360 you stand up,
00:33:17.400 you hate your adversary.
00:33:18.520 I mean,
00:33:18.760 been there.
00:33:19.560 You don't get to grunt.
00:33:21.200 You don't get to
00:33:22.060 interrupt his presentation
00:33:24.300 to the judge
00:33:25.280 with,
00:33:25.800 you know,
00:33:26.600 fascist!
00:33:27.600 I took con law!
00:33:28.820 You suck!
00:33:29.420 Boo on MAGA
00:33:30.780 and Trump,
00:33:31.300 whatever they said.
00:33:32.920 You're not going to last
00:33:33.660 long.
00:33:34.100 You could try it.
00:33:35.100 You'd be in contempt
00:33:36.040 of court.
00:33:36.980 You would be sanctioned
00:33:37.740 by the judge
00:33:38.260 and you would be humiliated
00:33:39.600 in front of your client.
00:33:40.580 Like,
00:33:41.020 this behavior,
00:33:41.920 counter speech
00:33:42.820 is free speech.
00:33:43.880 Sure,
00:33:44.760 shut the F up,
00:33:46.400 let him give his presentation
00:33:47.660 and then pepper him
00:33:49.180 with tough questions
00:33:49.940 when he's done.
00:33:50.680 How did you back this ruling?
00:33:52.120 How did you dehumanize?
00:33:53.140 Whatever they want to say.
00:33:54.720 It's absolute nonsense.
00:33:56.220 They do this all the time.
00:33:57.280 It's the same thing
00:33:58.080 when people get canceled
00:33:59.380 and they say
00:33:59.680 it's accountability.
00:34:00.860 This is just counter speech.
00:34:02.160 It's like,
00:34:02.400 no, no,
00:34:02.580 you're mow mowing someone.
00:34:03.920 You're not allowing them to speak.
00:34:05.480 It's not counter speech
00:34:06.500 to prevent somebody's speech.
00:34:08.080 That's thuggery.
00:34:09.440 And what Matt said,
00:34:10.200 which is funny,
00:34:10.900 about the 1980s,
00:34:11.900 it was always
00:34:12.360 the protests on campus
00:34:13.920 were the shanty towns.
00:34:14.800 They built these.
00:34:15.380 This is very famous.
00:34:16.060 You can look it up.
00:34:16.980 And it was protesting
00:34:17.940 something that deserved
00:34:18.980 to be protested.
00:34:20.280 The racist regime
00:34:21.640 of the South African
00:34:23.020 apartheid government
00:34:24.280 that was a hideous blot
00:34:26.440 on the world
00:34:28.080 at that point.
00:34:29.180 Right now,
00:34:29.900 kids are protesting
00:34:30.760 and I do refer to them as kids
00:34:32.040 even if they're in their 40s.
00:34:33.200 They're acting like kids.
00:34:34.140 They're protesting
00:34:34.900 the exchange of ideas.
00:34:37.320 This is where we've gone
00:34:38.980 horribly off the rails.
00:34:40.740 Matt also made the point
00:34:41.580 that this is undergraduate stuff.
00:34:43.100 Yes.
00:34:43.780 And guess what?
00:34:44.400 The undergraduates
00:34:45.080 we've been pointing
00:34:45.940 this stuff out
00:34:46.700 for five, six, seven,
00:34:48.540 eight, nine years
00:34:49.040 are now graduate students.
00:34:50.200 They haven't gotten over it.
00:34:51.120 It's part of who they are
00:34:52.560 at this point.
00:34:53.140 It's part of how they view debate,
00:34:55.160 which I find so hideous.
00:34:56.540 It is Maoist.
00:34:58.180 And I'm sorry to say
00:34:59.020 that this is not
00:34:59.620 the exact same thing
00:35:00.480 or any way
00:35:01.240 of the Cultural Revolution.
00:35:02.660 But the first death
00:35:03.460 in the Cultural Revolution,
00:35:04.360 by the way,
00:35:04.660 was a teacher
00:35:05.120 that was killed by students.
00:35:06.540 This is actually true.
00:35:07.600 And I was just thinking
00:35:08.480 of this now.
00:35:08.980 It's like,
00:35:09.180 I don't want to make
00:35:10.100 that comparison.
00:35:11.260 But it has all the instincts
00:35:12.720 of it to shut down debate
00:35:14.440 and say that you are
00:35:15.760 on the wrong side of history
00:35:16.820 and you should know that.
00:35:18.320 De facto,
00:35:18.960 you should know that.
00:35:19.640 I don't have to prove my case.
00:35:21.120 You just should know
00:35:22.300 that you are on the wrong side
00:35:23.260 of history
00:35:23.640 and you're a horrible person.
00:35:25.240 So this is the problem.
00:35:26.900 When they get out
00:35:27.640 into the world,
00:35:28.860 it becomes a really difficult thing.
00:35:30.320 This is what you see
00:35:30.860 in jobs these days
00:35:32.500 when people go to HR
00:35:33.760 for the most bizarre things,
00:35:36.280 the most benign things.
00:35:37.560 I have seen this myself,
00:35:39.240 recently seen this myself,
00:35:41.100 of people that just,
00:35:42.140 you know,
00:35:42.340 weird,
00:35:42.960 odd interactions
00:35:44.060 become HR nightmares
00:35:46.020 because they come out
00:35:47.060 of this crucible of nonsense
00:35:48.680 in universities
00:35:49.840 in which people
00:35:51.020 are not taught
00:35:51.760 how to think.
00:35:52.820 They're taught
00:35:53.480 how to be upset
00:35:54.720 and how to be angry
00:35:56.080 and how to be offended,
00:35:57.320 which is fine.
00:35:58.300 You want to be those things?
00:35:59.340 Absolutely.
00:36:00.340 I was about to swear.
00:36:01.360 Fine.
00:36:02.080 But be able
00:36:03.020 to make the argument
00:36:03.680 as to why
00:36:04.540 and then I will crush you
00:36:05.860 like a bug
00:36:06.480 because you're a silly
00:36:07.700 nonsense person.
00:36:08.680 But as opposed
00:36:09.520 to just letting this happen,
00:36:10.780 this is,
00:36:11.640 the feeling is itself
00:36:13.320 justified by what you do.
00:36:15.820 All that is justified
00:36:16.520 by your own feelings.
00:36:17.660 Nonsense.
00:36:18.100 These people who are so indignant,
00:36:20.080 as I point out
00:36:20.860 from David Laskin,
00:36:21.360 Like me.
00:36:22.020 Were gagging.
00:36:22.740 I'm sorry,
00:36:22.960 I'm indignant right now.
00:36:24.160 The judge got up there
00:36:25.060 and they were like,
00:36:25.640 this is them.
00:36:27.480 Okay,
00:36:27.800 they want,
00:36:28.840 that's the truth
00:36:29.500 they're so proud of
00:36:30.260 and they were holding up a sign,
00:36:31.680 we have a picture of it,
00:36:33.140 that reads,
00:36:34.680 this judge,
00:36:35.720 Judge Duncan,
00:36:36.160 can't find the clitoris,
00:36:37.820 only the shorter
00:36:38.600 form of that,
00:36:39.140 which sounds more vulgar.
00:36:40.500 I mean,
00:36:40.920 it's disgusting.
00:36:41.680 So like,
00:36:42.100 what does that even mean?
00:36:42.780 Screw these kids.
00:36:43.780 He's bad at sex.
00:36:44.580 I don't know.
00:36:44.600 I don't know.
00:36:47.400 What is wrong with me?
00:36:49.880 How come I don't understand this?
00:36:51.480 What is the insane insult?
00:36:52.960 Do you understand the clitoris?
00:36:53.920 No, I don't,
00:36:54.560 but no one has a sign
00:36:55.920 in front of me about it.
00:36:58.020 They just,
00:36:58.440 they just,
00:36:58.860 no,
00:36:59.120 I said,
00:36:59.380 yeah,
00:36:59.480 no,
00:36:59.640 I don't get it.
00:37:00.180 I've been looking for years.
00:37:01.500 It's like the arc of the covenant.
00:37:03.180 I don't know.
00:37:04.820 But what does it have to do with law?
00:37:07.680 Good God.
00:37:09.000 I'm going to give you the directions
00:37:09.820 on that right after this.
00:37:11.960 Can we do that in the break,
00:37:13.340 please?
00:37:13.820 Yeah.
00:37:14.740 I've been trying to find someone.
00:37:19.000 Chatbot AI is like,
00:37:20.280 no,
00:37:20.520 we can't help.
00:37:22.480 Two out of the three,
00:37:23.940 our fifth column friends
00:37:24.900 right after this quick break.
00:37:26.680 So before we leave
00:37:31.700 the campus insanity,
00:37:33.140 I would be remiss
00:37:33.760 if I did not bring up
00:37:34.660 what's happening up in Canada.
00:37:36.460 And this,
00:37:37.000 Matt,
00:37:37.160 goes to your point of
00:37:38.380 people respond
00:37:40.120 to these incentives.
00:37:42.200 Okay,
00:37:42.480 so let's journey north
00:37:43.700 and I want to introduce you
00:37:45.500 to a woman
00:37:46.620 named Vianne Timmons
00:37:49.180 who's been president
00:37:50.580 of the Memorial University
00:37:52.160 of Newfoundland
00:37:54.020 since 2020.
00:37:55.200 No,
00:37:55.580 she's president
00:37:56.100 of the university.
00:37:57.000 That's pretty,
00:37:57.940 pretty prestigious.
00:37:59.720 She too,
00:38:00.520 just like the accuser
00:38:01.500 at Stanford
00:38:02.100 is taking six weeks
00:38:03.280 of voluntary leave.
00:38:05.660 Hers is paid.
00:38:07.000 I don't know
00:38:07.480 whether the accuser
00:38:08.360 in Stanford
00:38:08.740 is getting paid
00:38:09.520 while she's on leave.
00:38:11.060 But this woman's
00:38:11.580 taking six weeks
00:38:12.120 of voluntary paid leave.
00:38:12.940 Now,
00:38:13.140 why?
00:38:13.700 What did Vianne Timmons do?
00:38:16.580 Well,
00:38:17.780 she,
00:38:18.840 as it turns out,
00:38:19.960 has been,
00:38:21.220 I've got a credit
00:38:22.060 National Post
00:38:22.600 in Canada
00:38:22.940 for this term.
00:38:23.460 She's a pretendian.
00:38:25.200 She's a pretendian.
00:38:26.520 A pretendian
00:38:27.320 might be another way.
00:38:28.640 She's a pretend Indian
00:38:29.460 is what they're trying to say.
00:38:31.100 She's been claiming
00:38:32.020 fake Native American
00:38:33.620 or native status.
00:38:34.840 She's Canadian.
00:38:36.360 And she isn't one.
00:38:38.340 They entered,
00:38:39.620 I guess there was
00:38:40.560 some sort of
00:38:41.660 deep look
00:38:43.060 into these claims
00:38:44.980 that she'd been making
00:38:45.840 that she had
00:38:46.960 indigenous ancestry
00:38:48.600 by the CBC.
00:38:49.440 and the probe
00:38:50.780 found no proof
00:38:51.480 that she has
00:38:52.000 this ancestry
00:38:52.660 whatsoever
00:38:53.400 despite her claiming
00:38:54.440 First Nation heritage.
00:38:57.040 Timmons explained
00:38:57.700 that she became
00:38:59.300 a member,
00:38:59.960 now forgive me,
00:39:00.640 I'm going to butcher this,
00:39:01.380 but I'm going to give it a try.
00:39:02.760 She became a member
00:39:03.580 of the
00:39:04.120 Brazior-Mikmack
00:39:06.740 First Nation
00:39:07.620 in Cape Breton
00:39:09.120 after her brother
00:39:10.500 researched their family's
00:39:11.540 genealogy
00:39:12.020 around 2009.
00:39:13.160 She became a member
00:39:13.960 of the First Nation
00:39:15.100 tribe.
00:39:16.940 Timmons said
00:39:17.340 her father
00:39:17.740 had told her
00:39:18.260 when she was
00:39:18.540 in her 30s
00:39:19.000 that she had
00:39:19.560 a Mi'kmaw
00:39:20.340 great-great-great-grandmother
00:39:22.300 great-great-great-grandmother
00:39:24.240 but that he was
00:39:25.520 ashamed of it.
00:39:26.640 However,
00:39:27.200 CBC News
00:39:27.860 could not find
00:39:28.740 any Mi'kmaw relative
00:39:30.160 closer than
00:39:31.040 ready?
00:39:32.300 Ten generations
00:39:33.660 removed.
00:39:35.040 They went back
00:39:35.880 some
00:39:36.200 400 years.
00:39:39.980 I love these stories.
00:39:42.520 She claimed,
00:39:43.740 however,
00:39:44.080 not to be deterred,
00:39:45.000 I have documentation
00:39:46.200 that will prove
00:39:47.160 a closer link
00:39:48.260 than that.
00:39:48.680 And they said,
00:39:49.100 well,
00:39:49.300 could we have
00:39:49.840 that documentation?
00:39:50.620 She said,
00:39:50.960 well,
00:39:51.080 it's likely
00:39:51.420 in my mom's
00:39:51.880 house
00:39:52.040 and I can't
00:39:52.400 find it.
00:39:53.340 Okay.
00:39:54.360 Stephen White,
00:39:55.280 who's a genealogist
00:39:56.120 consulted by the CBC,
00:39:59.020 told the broadcaster
00:40:00.040 that Timmons'
00:40:00.840 most likely claim
00:40:01.620 to indigenous heritage
00:40:02.500 was via her
00:40:03.260 great-great-great-grandmother
00:40:04.320 Marie Benoit,
00:40:05.760 who was herself
00:40:06.600 just
00:40:07.180 one-sixteenth
00:40:08.480 Mi'kmaq.
00:40:10.140 One-sixteenth.
00:40:12.200 Now Timmons
00:40:13.060 on her heels
00:40:13.620 claims,
00:40:14.060 well,
00:40:14.620 I've never benefited
00:40:15.900 from this claim.
00:40:17.320 All right,
00:40:17.560 just so you know,
00:40:18.240 like it was just like
00:40:18.880 sort of a fun family thing,
00:40:20.140 but I never used it.
00:40:21.300 But the CBC News investigation
00:40:22.600 found that the membership
00:40:24.660 in the tribe
00:40:25.480 was listed on her resume.
00:40:27.680 Last updated when?
00:40:28.900 30 years ago?
00:40:29.620 No,
00:40:29.980 2016.
00:40:31.140 That it was also referenced
00:40:32.380 in her biographies
00:40:34.120 for her professional dealings,
00:40:35.940 including a national advisory board.
00:40:37.600 Listen to this.
00:40:38.580 They also found that
00:40:39.560 the tribe membership,
00:40:41.520 when she's saying
00:40:41.940 she's a member of the tribe,
00:40:43.140 was listed in multiple
00:40:44.760 professional biographies
00:40:46.060 between 2011 and 2018.
00:40:48.780 And then,
00:40:49.560 just in case you had any doubt
00:40:50.820 about the veracity
00:40:51.760 of her claim,
00:40:52.280 she's never used it,
00:40:53.640 she was the 2019 recipient
00:40:55.780 of an Ind Spire,
00:40:59.600 I-N-D,
00:41:00.480 Ind Spire Award
00:41:01.900 for Education,
00:41:03.520 an award openly touted as,
00:41:05.180 quote,
00:41:05.220 the highest honor
00:41:06.700 the Indigenous community
00:41:07.940 bestows upon,
00:41:09.700 wait for it,
00:41:10.860 its own people.
00:41:14.680 Matt Welsh,
00:41:15.480 your point has been made
00:41:17.020 very clear.
00:41:19.580 By the way,
00:41:20.180 this is the second time
00:41:20.840 this has happened recently
00:41:21.880 in Canada.
00:41:22.620 Yes.
00:41:22.820 There was a woman
00:41:23.440 who is the top
00:41:24.360 Indigenous health expert,
00:41:26.480 and I think
00:41:26.800 for the Canadian government,
00:41:27.640 it turned out
00:41:28.100 she was a pretendian too.
00:41:30.440 And there's a woman
00:41:31.300 who actually,
00:41:31.960 very funny,
00:41:32.640 keeps a list of these people.
00:41:33.800 And you look into it
00:41:35.080 and they always do
00:41:35.720 the same thing.
00:41:36.160 It's a Elizabeth Warren thing.
00:41:37.680 You know,
00:41:37.940 I've been told in my family,
00:41:40.500 this is in my family too,
00:41:41.660 everybody I know
00:41:42.460 has had that
00:41:43.240 and you just don't believe
00:41:44.420 it at some point.
00:41:45.440 But if there was
00:41:46.700 some kind of racial hierarchy
00:41:48.460 that we just look down
00:41:50.780 upon all these people,
00:41:51.680 why would everybody
00:41:52.520 be claiming
00:41:53.340 to be partially this,
00:41:54.900 that, or the other?
00:41:55.500 You'd imagine
00:41:55.860 they'd be running away from it.
00:41:57.000 But the incredible thing
00:41:57.760 about it is
00:41:58.340 this is race science.
00:42:00.100 This is blood science.
00:42:01.540 Because this woman says,
00:42:02.500 oh, I discovered it.
00:42:03.800 Which means you've never
00:42:04.720 been discriminated against.
00:42:05.900 You've never been held back
00:42:07.140 because of it.
00:42:07.840 So now you're saying
00:42:08.680 that you have some sort of
00:42:09.560 blood quotient
00:42:10.560 that is a little bit in there.
00:42:12.400 So therefore,
00:42:13.040 give me things?
00:42:14.500 Come on now.
00:42:15.420 The same thing,
00:42:16.020 Elizabeth Warren, by the way,
00:42:17.240 and this is the kind of
00:42:18.220 rock, paper, scissors
00:42:19.080 when it comes to
00:42:20.160 the people on the progressive left
00:42:21.600 about this stuff.
00:42:22.460 They like her too much.
00:42:23.900 So they won't actually complain
00:42:25.300 about the fact that
00:42:25.940 she used it
00:42:26.760 in her job application
00:42:28.860 at Harvard Law School.
00:42:30.120 She ticked it off
00:42:31.620 and she was, you know,
00:42:32.940 kind of ushered in
00:42:33.960 and counted as a minority
00:42:35.740 on staff.
00:42:36.560 If you are somebody
00:42:37.380 who believes in this
00:42:38.400 kind of, you know, voodoo,
00:42:39.980 you should say,
00:42:41.340 didn't she actually
00:42:42.180 take that away
00:42:42.880 from somebody
00:42:43.440 who was actually native
00:42:44.640 and not somebody
00:42:45.740 whose mother told them
00:42:47.700 that 18 generations ago
00:42:49.380 somebody watched
00:42:50.360 an episode of F Troop
00:42:51.600 and now all of a sudden
00:42:52.380 they're part of a tribe.
00:42:53.480 Come on now.
00:42:54.760 It's all nonsense
00:42:55.880 and we should humiliate
00:42:57.160 these people
00:42:57.600 as much as possible.
00:42:58.340 And thank God Camille's not here
00:42:59.920 because it'd say it's all fake
00:43:00.980 and I agree with him.
00:43:02.440 It is all fake.
00:43:03.760 But, you know,
00:43:04.860 lying about it's bad.
00:43:07.340 And it's also that,
00:43:09.000 you know,
00:43:09.800 there are people
00:43:10.740 who live on
00:43:11.880 Indian reservations,
00:43:13.040 Native American reservations
00:43:13.960 in the United States,
00:43:15.600 some of the poorest people
00:43:16.860 in this country.
00:43:17.900 Like there is a,
00:43:18.740 if you want to
00:43:19.600 to have some solidarity
00:43:21.200 for people
00:43:22.160 and also think about
00:43:24.060 the economic structures,
00:43:26.600 the governance,
00:43:27.180 the way the United States
00:43:28.500 federal government
00:43:29.400 has absolutely screwed
00:43:30.740 these people over
00:43:31.460 in a systematic way,
00:43:33.060 please,
00:43:33.860 by all means,
00:43:34.660 go for it.
00:43:35.640 And also don't try
00:43:37.180 to do a stolen valor
00:43:38.140 thing with them.
00:43:39.860 I've been watching,
00:43:41.240 God help me,
00:43:42.160 the world baseball classic
00:43:43.460 a lot.
00:43:43.920 I love baseball.
00:43:44.760 I love nationalism.
00:43:45.800 So it's all great.
00:43:47.400 Go after the commies
00:43:48.640 in Venezuela
00:43:49.200 and Cuba next.
00:43:50.080 It's awesome.
00:43:50.940 But one of the things
00:43:51.600 that you realize
00:43:52.560 in watching this
00:43:53.240 is that it's wonderful
00:43:55.720 to see sort of expressions
00:43:56.740 of different types
00:43:57.620 of culture
00:43:58.880 within the baseball arena.
00:44:00.320 Japanese culture
00:44:01.420 has this kind of flair.
00:44:02.820 Sometimes Puerto Ricans
00:44:03.840 are like this.
00:44:04.500 It's fun.
00:44:05.160 It's really, really fun.
00:44:06.640 And also it reminds you
00:44:08.520 that one of the reasons
00:44:10.020 why we focus so much
00:44:11.140 on Jackie Robinson
00:44:11.860 and the breaking
00:44:12.280 of the color barrier
00:44:12.920 in 1947,
00:44:14.360 and this is true
00:44:15.940 in Jackie Robinson's writings,
00:44:17.180 which I highly recommend
00:44:17.960 anyone to delve into,
00:44:19.200 he was just righteously pissed
00:44:22.080 that you're not letting me
00:44:23.980 onto your playing field
00:44:25.040 because I am going
00:44:25.960 to kick your ass.
00:44:27.660 And in fact, he did.
00:44:28.500 He kicked the living crap
00:44:30.120 out of everybody physically
00:44:31.180 after the first year or two
00:44:32.980 of turning the other cheek.
00:44:34.600 We want the level playing field.
00:44:36.240 You don't get an extra seat
00:44:38.480 at the table.
00:44:39.100 You don't get an extra cookie
00:44:40.260 by checking off
00:44:41.340 the one drop box
00:44:42.800 on your application
00:44:44.060 to be a Major League
00:44:44.960 baseball player.
00:44:45.780 The question is,
00:44:46.460 can you play?
00:44:47.180 Okay, come on in.
00:44:48.480 No one cares.
00:44:49.760 Like, absolutely no one cares.
00:44:51.160 And you start to think,
00:44:51.880 like, why don't we have
00:44:52.840 more of that in the world?
00:44:54.900 I'm sure there are places
00:44:55.980 and times to think about
00:44:57.740 people's background,
00:44:58.880 especially, again,
00:45:00.120 on a more of a class
00:45:01.120 disadvantage level.
00:45:03.120 You overcame some disadvantages,
00:45:04.680 particularly as immigrants,
00:45:06.220 people who have been poor.
00:45:08.040 Like, you keep that
00:45:09.100 into consideration.
00:45:10.120 But for a basic job,
00:45:12.220 why are we awarding
00:45:14.060 extra cookies
00:45:15.200 to someone who ticked
00:45:16.380 that box of their,
00:45:17.240 you know,
00:45:17.760 10th great-grandparents
00:45:19.700 maybe had a little bit
00:45:20.740 of this.
00:45:21.580 It's ridiculous.
00:45:21.880 400 years ago.
00:45:23.040 Right.
00:45:23.600 That's basically
00:45:24.280 the connection now.
00:45:25.800 We should be looking
00:45:26.560 at this from a completely
00:45:27.720 different point of view,
00:45:28.800 which, you know,
00:45:29.620 just to echo Camille,
00:45:31.000 is more and more
00:45:31.860 to stop doing it
00:45:32.940 from that point of view.
00:45:34.420 You know,
00:45:34.660 look at people
00:45:35.140 who are actually suffering,
00:45:36.280 have sympathy,
00:45:37.000 figure out what best to do.
00:45:39.160 And beyond that,
00:45:40.420 it's just a weird,
00:45:42.100 weird tick.
00:45:43.180 You know what's happening?
00:45:43.980 So it's no accident,
00:45:44.620 you guys.
00:45:45.000 This is happening
00:45:45.620 at a college,
00:45:46.460 right?
00:45:46.700 Although it's not always
00:45:47.340 a college.
00:45:47.680 We just did a story
00:45:48.320 about a woman
00:45:48.720 out of Philly.
00:45:49.640 Her name is,
00:45:50.440 she said her name
00:45:50.920 is Rachel Saraswati
00:45:52.360 from Philly.
00:45:53.400 Her real name,
00:45:54.620 Raquel,
00:45:55.160 Raquel Saraswati,
00:45:56.220 but her real name
00:45:57.080 was Rachel Seidel,
00:45:58.540 who actually had
00:46:00.800 absolutely no
00:46:01.460 minority affiliations
00:46:02.700 whatsoever.
00:46:03.160 Her family says
00:46:03.640 she's white,
00:46:04.160 white as the driven snow.
00:46:05.680 But she claimed
00:46:06.380 she was Muslim
00:46:07.040 and Latinx
00:46:08.300 and all the other things
00:46:09.780 and she's been outed
00:46:10.600 as having faked it too.
00:46:12.560 But what's happening now
00:46:13.700 on a wider level
00:46:14.900 is all these colleges
00:46:16.120 are expecting
00:46:16.760 the U.S. Supreme Court
00:46:17.540 to strike down
00:46:18.080 the use of race
00:46:18.700 and the admissions.
00:46:19.600 And so they're throwing out
00:46:20.700 at the SATs,
00:46:21.980 the ACTs,
00:46:23.160 GPAs,
00:46:23.920 because there is no way
00:46:25.240 they're going to abandon
00:46:26.180 their fealty to race.
00:46:28.120 So they understand
00:46:29.040 if they actually
00:46:29.720 are just stuck with grades
00:46:30.780 as a metric of,
00:46:31.880 you know,
00:46:31.980 whether you get in or not,
00:46:32.980 that they're probably
00:46:33.800 going to see a decrease
00:46:35.120 in enrollment
00:46:35.640 of their target groups.
00:46:37.060 And they're so obsessed
00:46:38.200 with identity,
00:46:39.000 they're not having it.
00:46:40.120 So they're, you know,
00:46:40.760 preemptively starting
00:46:41.620 to change the whole
00:46:42.480 college admissions system
00:46:43.860 such that they can make it
00:46:45.360 even more racialized,
00:46:46.580 not less.
00:46:48.200 The racialization
00:46:48.960 of everything
00:46:49.400 drives me absolutely insane.
00:46:50.940 I sent Matt and Camille
00:46:52.300 a text the other day
00:46:53.100 that for reasons
00:46:54.360 that I cannot explain
00:46:55.600 and I apologize for this,
00:46:56.640 I was reading an article
00:46:57.400 in the New York Times
00:46:57.920 about the show
00:46:58.460 Girls by Lena Dunham.
00:47:01.140 And in the lead of this,
00:47:02.460 it said,
00:47:03.280 it followed four white women.
00:47:05.560 I'm sorry,
00:47:05.940 what now?
00:47:06.480 Why are you identifying
00:47:07.480 them racially?
00:47:08.140 The thing had nothing
00:47:08.940 to do with race.
00:47:09.960 You're just now identifying
00:47:11.040 people's races
00:47:11.720 when it's completely unnecessary.
00:47:13.320 And one final thing
00:47:14.600 about how old this is,
00:47:16.240 the fake Indian thing,
00:47:18.480 fake Native thing.
00:47:19.500 Remember,
00:47:19.880 we just found out
00:47:20.720 that Sachin Littlefeather,
00:47:22.660 who accepted
00:47:23.300 the Academy Award
00:47:24.480 for Marlon Brando
00:47:26.220 and went up there
00:47:27.280 in I think 1972,
00:47:28.560 I think it was
00:47:28.780 for the Godfather,
00:47:29.880 73,
00:47:30.760 and went up there.
00:47:31.840 We found out
00:47:32.420 right after she died,
00:47:33.600 her sister was like,
00:47:34.380 oh yeah,
00:47:34.720 by the way,
00:47:35.160 she's not Native American.
00:47:36.360 We always knew this.
00:47:37.680 And yeah,
00:47:37.960 we just didn't say anything
00:47:38.900 about it.
00:47:39.600 Yeah,
00:47:39.800 yeah,
00:47:40.060 Sachin Littlefeather.
00:47:41.020 She was a pretend age.
00:47:42.460 She's like Jill Smith
00:47:43.600 or something.
00:47:44.240 She's completely not.
00:47:45.580 She had some plausible claim,
00:47:48.080 but it wasn't what she was.
00:47:48.980 I think she was Mexican-American,
00:47:50.160 but yes,
00:47:50.700 it's not true.
00:47:52.000 But anyway,
00:47:52.700 sorry to ruin that for you,
00:47:54.060 Megan.
00:47:54.960 Not the same at all.
00:47:56.160 Oh my God,
00:47:56.380 that's unbelievable.
00:47:57.480 Well,
00:47:57.600 yeah,
00:47:57.780 I mean,
00:47:57.980 like more and more
00:47:58.700 we're going to see this
00:47:59.500 as,
00:48:00.020 you know,
00:48:00.600 this kind of thing
00:48:01.180 can get you a promotion.
00:48:02.320 It can get you into college
00:48:03.240 and so on.
00:48:04.140 And,
00:48:04.500 you know,
00:48:04.760 if we don't,
00:48:05.200 if we don't stand up
00:48:06.740 and try to wipe this out
00:48:08.900 once,
00:48:09.400 we're going to get
00:48:10.100 a whole lot more of it
00:48:10.800 because people respond
00:48:12.360 to incentives
00:48:13.360 in the great words
00:48:14.320 of Matt Welsh.
00:48:15.220 All right,
00:48:15.560 Matt and Michael
00:48:16.740 stay with us
00:48:17.280 for the rest of the show.
00:48:18.140 There's so much more
00:48:18.580 to get to,
00:48:18.960 including the reenactment
00:48:20.780 by the two guys
00:48:21.960 who helped Jussie Smollett
00:48:23.000 in his fake hate crime hoax.
00:48:25.960 They went back
00:48:26.620 and redid it for Fox Nation.
00:48:27.780 We'll show you what they did.
00:48:33.280 Speaking of race hoaxes,
00:48:35.980 Jussie Smollett,
00:48:37.880 Jussie Smollett,
00:48:38.900 is back in the news.
00:48:40.880 We talked about this
00:48:41.640 actually about a week ago.
00:48:42.660 He's filed an appeal
00:48:43.600 on his criminal conviction
00:48:44.780 for the race hoax
00:48:45.880 that he perpetrated
00:48:46.740 in Chicago
00:48:47.500 during the polar vortex
00:48:48.580 where he had two
00:48:49.620 of his buddies
00:48:50.140 attack him,
00:48:51.900 two black guys.
00:48:53.120 I mean,
00:48:53.260 it's like,
00:48:53.660 if you're going to
00:48:54.260 try to pretend
00:48:54.780 that you're the victim
00:48:55.280 of a race hoax,
00:48:56.100 at least hire white guys
00:48:57.060 to do it.
00:48:57.660 Yeah.
00:48:57.960 Hire two black guys
00:48:58.720 to attack him,
00:48:59.840 pour bleach on him.
00:49:00.900 They just so happen
00:49:01.460 to have a rope on them
00:49:02.880 that they now claim
00:49:04.360 they put on his face,
00:49:05.200 not around his neck
00:49:06.320 as he was later found wearing
00:49:07.460 because he really wanted
00:49:08.140 the police to see
00:49:08.660 where it was around his neck.
00:49:09.720 He just like,
00:49:10.260 you know,
00:49:10.720 years of old.
00:49:13.340 So he's filed an appeal.
00:49:14.680 He's claiming everything
00:49:15.360 but the kitchen sink.
00:49:16.280 He's claiming
00:49:17.180 double jeopardy
00:49:18.620 because he had originally
00:49:19.340 struck a deal
00:49:20.040 with a prosecutor
00:49:21.260 who was biased
00:49:22.920 and instead they brought
00:49:24.160 in a special prosecutor
00:49:24.920 to go after him
00:49:25.580 and all sorts of things
00:49:26.260 that are not going anywhere.
00:49:27.440 But he doesn't want
00:49:27.900 to have to serve
00:49:28.260 that jail time.
00:49:29.600 And Fox Nation,
00:49:30.740 meantime,
00:49:31.060 has taken another
00:49:31.600 close look at the case
00:49:32.780 and they have gotten
00:49:34.200 the two brothers
00:49:35.060 who he hired
00:49:35.960 to do the fake attack,
00:49:37.540 which again,
00:49:38.160 Jussie claimed to trial.
00:49:39.260 They were real
00:49:39.800 and that they were lying
00:49:40.580 when they said
00:49:40.920 it was a fake attack
00:49:41.560 to go on the record.
00:49:44.640 And M.
00:49:45.100 Bola,
00:49:45.760 they call him Bola
00:49:46.460 and Ola Bingo,
00:49:48.340 they call him Ola Osandario.
00:49:50.880 The thing happened
00:49:51.740 in January 2019.
00:49:52.880 They helped this Empire actor
00:49:54.200 stage his hate crime
00:49:55.120 and they testified
00:49:56.180 against him ultimately.
00:49:57.440 They got two years probation
00:49:58.380 and a small fine
00:49:59.520 because they turned
00:50:00.060 state's evidence on him
00:50:00.920 and he was sentenced to jail.
00:50:03.300 Now,
00:50:04.220 they give this interview
00:50:05.180 to Fox Nation
00:50:05.900 in which they go back
00:50:06.880 to the crime scene,
00:50:08.320 the alleged scene
00:50:08.800 of the crime,
00:50:09.320 2 a.m.
00:50:09.780 by a subway station,
00:50:11.020 Subway,
00:50:11.320 the sandwich,
00:50:12.380 in the middle of the night
00:50:13.520 in Chicago,
00:50:14.300 freezing cold winter
00:50:14.940 and show us
00:50:15.740 how it went down.
00:50:16.920 Look at this.
00:50:18.900 He was not there.
00:50:20.380 So we were like,
00:50:21.360 damn,
00:50:21.740 what do we do?
00:50:22.880 But we didn't have
00:50:23.680 no way of contacting him.
00:50:25.260 He had no way
00:50:25.860 of contacting us.
00:50:27.040 So we waited here
00:50:27.920 for about,
00:50:28.620 what,
00:50:29.380 four minutes?
00:50:30.140 It was about four minutes.
00:50:31.160 Roughly four minutes.
00:50:31.700 But it felt like forever.
00:50:33.320 Because it was cold
00:50:34.220 as balls.
00:50:35.700 He turned around,
00:50:37.100 looked at us,
00:50:38.160 and that's when
00:50:38.680 we started yelling
00:50:39.480 the famous slurs
00:50:42.040 he wanted us to yell.
00:50:43.700 It's MAGA country.
00:50:45.500 And then he said,
00:50:46.440 what did you say to me?
00:50:47.860 And then that's when
00:50:48.820 I threw the first punch
00:50:50.200 at him.
00:50:51.480 I held the blow
00:50:52.900 because I didn't want
00:50:53.600 to hurt him,
00:50:54.160 of course.
00:50:54.840 So I made it look real,
00:50:56.480 but I held it.
00:50:58.040 Then we started tussling,
00:50:59.660 moving around,
00:51:01.080 and then I threw him
00:51:01.920 to the ground.
00:51:02.940 He wanted it to look
00:51:03.980 like he fought back.
00:51:05.560 I used my knuckle
00:51:06.680 and gave him a noogie.
00:51:08.260 So I went like this.
00:51:09.600 Why did I do that?
00:51:12.680 To give him a scar,
00:51:14.060 to give him a mark,
00:51:15.220 to make it look real
00:51:16.220 like he really did
00:51:17.420 get his ass beat.
00:51:18.940 After I did that,
00:51:20.460 I fake kicked him.
00:51:21.520 I don't know
00:51:21.900 what he was doing.
00:51:22.780 I wasn't paying attention.
00:51:23.560 That's where I came around
00:51:24.940 with the bleach,
00:51:26.100 the infamous bleach
00:51:27.180 in the hot sauce bottle,
00:51:29.340 poured it on his shirt.
00:51:30.840 Then I finally put
00:51:32.140 the rope around his face.
00:51:33.520 I did not put it
00:51:34.280 around his neck.
00:51:35.020 I just placed it
00:51:35.700 on his face,
00:51:36.520 and that's when
00:51:37.260 we took off.
00:51:40.640 Is that not the greatest
00:51:41.660 thing you've ever seen?
00:51:42.920 That's the best recreation
00:51:44.120 in the history of television.
00:51:46.380 Whoever the producer
00:51:47.600 of that is,
00:51:48.460 I want you to email me
00:51:49.620 because I want to
00:51:50.380 nominate you for an Emmy
00:51:51.520 because getting them
00:51:52.500 to do that
00:51:53.120 was the best idea
00:51:54.320 I've ever seen.
00:51:55.080 I was like,
00:51:55.520 no, there's nobody there.
00:51:56.920 Just go and do the fight scene
00:51:58.780 by yourselves
00:51:59.560 across the street.
00:52:00.280 We'll shoot it
00:52:00.580 from across the street,
00:52:01.320 which is an amazing thing.
00:52:02.720 And then the best quote,
00:52:03.940 and he keeps on saying
00:52:04.620 the famous bleach,
00:52:05.620 the famous things we said.
00:52:07.200 The new famous line is,
00:52:09.020 it was cold as balls,
00:52:10.380 which is...
00:52:12.680 Holy cow.
00:52:14.840 I love these guys.
00:52:16.360 Better actors
00:52:17.160 than Jussie Smollett,
00:52:18.100 by the way.
00:52:18.600 Yes, right.
00:52:19.500 Jussie Smollett,
00:52:20.260 who was the actor
00:52:20.880 who wanted attention
00:52:21.720 on Empire,
00:52:22.700 and what they said was
00:52:24.000 he wanted to make it
00:52:25.300 look like,
00:52:25.800 they go on to say,
00:52:27.040 he wanted to make it
00:52:28.580 look like he fought back.
00:52:29.960 That was very important
00:52:31.280 for him.
00:52:32.220 This whole thing
00:52:33.240 was about his image.
00:52:35.260 Here he was,
00:52:35.700 I don't know which
00:52:36.120 soundbite this is
00:52:36.780 that we have,
00:52:37.160 but here he was
00:52:37.840 not long ago
00:52:39.780 talking about him
00:52:41.180 being innocent.
00:52:42.820 Oh,
00:52:43.020 and he's not suicidal either.
00:52:45.780 I am not suicidal.
00:52:48.340 I am innocent
00:52:49.220 and I am not suicidal.
00:52:51.200 If I did this,
00:52:52.320 then it means
00:52:52.700 that I stuck my fist
00:52:53.800 in the fears
00:52:54.560 of black Americans
00:52:55.740 in this country
00:52:56.280 for over 400 years
00:52:57.300 and the fears
00:52:57.980 of the LGBTQ community.
00:52:59.740 Your Honor,
00:53:00.120 I respect you
00:53:00.840 and I respect the jury,
00:53:01.860 but I did not do this
00:53:03.220 and I am not suicidal.
00:53:04.980 And if anything happens
00:53:05.940 to me when I go in there,
00:53:07.520 I did not do it to myself.
00:53:09.280 And you must all know that.
00:53:12.400 I respect you,
00:53:13.720 Your Honor.
00:53:14.240 I respect your decision.
00:53:16.140 Jail time.
00:53:19.960 I am not suicidal.
00:53:21.420 I am not suicidal.
00:53:23.180 Stop laughing about black people.
00:53:24.340 I am not suicidal
00:53:25.640 and I am innocent.
00:53:27.260 I could have said
00:53:27.920 that I was guilty
00:53:28.600 a long time ago.
00:53:31.000 He's got the black power
00:53:32.260 I've never seen that.
00:53:34.180 What a nerve case.
00:53:36.180 He's such a liar.
00:53:37.040 He's literally doing
00:53:38.920 a black power salute
00:53:40.300 on the way out
00:53:41.000 screaming I'm not suicidal.
00:53:43.060 Not I'm innocent,
00:53:44.100 by the way.
00:53:45.000 I'm not.
00:53:45.440 He did say that at one point,
00:53:46.680 but the thing he's repeating
00:53:47.560 over and over
00:53:48.100 is I'm not suicidal
00:53:49.220 because he's also
00:53:50.220 a crazy conspiracy theorist
00:53:51.480 that he might get killed
00:53:52.300 in jail,
00:53:52.880 but it's going to make
00:53:54.240 to be look like
00:53:54.900 a Jeffrey Epstein suicide.
00:53:56.220 It's like,
00:53:56.520 dude,
00:53:57.060 no one cares about you.
00:53:58.500 No one knew about you before
00:53:59.940 and no one knew
00:54:01.180 what Empire was.
00:54:02.500 Sorry.
00:54:03.160 Maybe the other people did,
00:54:04.380 but I don't know.
00:54:04.960 I think it's a bit
00:54:05.320 of an own goal,
00:54:06.340 as they say,
00:54:07.040 to compare yourself
00:54:07.960 to Jeffrey Epstein.
00:54:09.300 Yeah, yeah.
00:54:09.960 The whole public sympathy
00:54:11.340 kind of thing.
00:54:12.600 It's not.
00:54:13.140 Well, he got off
00:54:14.000 for a little bit,
00:54:14.700 so, you know.
00:54:15.960 So he was sent
00:54:16.600 to 150 days,
00:54:18.000 150 days in prison
00:54:19.780 and still hasn't
00:54:21.300 had to serve them.
00:54:22.200 He wanted to be out
00:54:23.520 on appeal and so on,
00:54:24.520 but I don't know
00:54:25.020 whether he's ever
00:54:25.500 actually going to
00:54:26.080 have to serve this,
00:54:26.640 but it's so funny to see.
00:54:28.320 You know,
00:54:28.500 you remember we deconstructed
00:54:29.980 the Robin Roberts
00:54:30.800 interview of Jesse.
00:54:31.720 She was totally sympathetic,
00:54:35.180 not even a hint
00:54:36.300 of skepticism.
00:54:37.900 I mean,
00:54:38.240 I like Robin Roberts,
00:54:39.420 but that was an embarrassment
00:54:40.540 of an interview
00:54:41.380 and just wasn't
00:54:42.200 doing her job at all.
00:54:43.160 And it's a continuation,
00:54:44.860 frankly,
00:54:45.160 of our first hour theme,
00:54:46.640 which is,
00:54:47.360 where is the skepticism
00:54:48.300 amongst the media,
00:54:49.740 amongst the general public
00:54:50.960 when allegations are made
00:54:52.680 that tap into
00:54:53.580 certain narratives,
00:54:54.820 right?
00:54:55.360 Women are oftentimes
00:54:57.460 the victims
00:54:58.320 of sexual assaults
00:54:59.340 on college campuses
00:55:00.140 and elsewhere.
00:55:01.080 It's a it's a it's
00:55:01.960 an epidemic
00:55:02.480 that we're having
00:55:03.560 to deal with.
00:55:04.480 Black people
00:55:05.260 in modern day America
00:55:06.540 do randomly get attacked
00:55:08.140 with nooses and bleach
00:55:09.420 and people shouting
00:55:10.860 this is MAGA country
00:55:11.800 in deep Chicago
00:55:12.640 during the polar vortex.
00:55:14.440 And those stories,
00:55:15.300 too,
00:55:15.440 should be covered
00:55:15.980 without doubt.
00:55:17.660 Otherwise,
00:55:18.160 you're showing your bigotry.
00:55:19.540 And even now,
00:55:20.340 we're trying to pretend
00:55:21.080 that like we have
00:55:21.860 to cover his appeal
00:55:22.580 like it's a real thing,
00:55:23.540 like he's got a real
00:55:24.160 when you've got
00:55:24.820 these two brothers
00:55:25.460 who could you find
00:55:26.140 a more credible witness
00:55:27.160 telling you
00:55:27.920 what actually went down?
00:55:29.040 Two muscle bound
00:55:31.040 Nigerian guys.
00:55:32.680 I mean,
00:55:33.040 if they say go
00:55:33.760 and get a reverse mortgage,
00:55:34.900 I'm in it.
00:55:35.540 Oh, my God.
00:55:36.600 Whatever pills
00:55:37.340 they want to sell me,
00:55:38.180 I'm buying.
00:55:38.860 But I love it.
00:55:39.860 The first bit of skepticism
00:55:41.240 should have been like,
00:55:42.200 this is MAGA country.
00:55:43.380 No, it's not.
00:55:44.220 It's downtown Chicago.
00:55:45.320 You dummies.
00:55:45.980 No.
00:55:46.260 But the greatest thing
00:55:46.920 about this is go
00:55:47.700 and find it.
00:55:48.360 I saw this the other day.
00:55:49.380 The original tweet
00:55:50.400 from The New York Times
00:55:51.380 that was no skepticism.
00:55:52.800 There was no alleged.
00:55:53.780 It was like Jussie Smollett,
00:55:56.020 actor from Empire,
00:55:57.620 attacked by MAGA lunatics.
00:56:00.260 And it reminded me
00:56:01.080 that right after
00:56:01.920 Donald Trump was elected,
00:56:03.180 this was a supply
00:56:03.900 and demand problem,
00:56:04.680 of course.
00:56:05.200 The demand for stories
00:56:06.840 about a rise in hate
00:56:08.160 greatly outstripped the supply.
00:56:11.140 So there was a whole bunch
00:56:12.200 of these attacks
00:56:13.740 that were fake.
00:56:14.620 And there were other ones
00:56:15.460 that were not proven
00:56:16.080 to be fake,
00:56:16.680 but were clearly fake.
00:56:18.340 And then one of the things
00:56:18.880 I thought was funny
00:56:19.360 right down the street
00:56:20.080 from where I was
00:56:20.720 in Brooklyn at the time,
00:56:21.840 there was a park
00:56:24.280 that I think was named
00:56:25.000 after Adam Yauk,
00:56:26.440 one of the Beastie Boys
00:56:27.060 who passed away.
00:56:28.340 And there were swastikas
00:56:29.180 drawn on it,
00:56:30.120 like the day after.
00:56:31.380 And it was really interesting
00:56:32.200 because these Nazis
00:56:33.700 didn't know which way
00:56:34.820 the swastikas went.
00:56:36.060 They had them backwards.
00:56:37.060 And I was like,
00:56:37.480 that's the first bit
00:56:38.180 of skepticism.
00:56:39.020 And it reminded me
00:56:39.980 of Dave Chappelle's bit
00:56:41.160 about this,
00:56:41.700 which is one of the funniest
00:56:42.440 things I've ever heard,
00:56:43.480 when he's like,
00:56:44.060 we knew he was lying
00:56:44.980 immediately.
00:56:46.340 Immediately.
00:56:47.060 And I watched
00:56:48.360 for days,
00:56:49.580 weeks,
00:56:50.140 of people reporting
00:56:51.840 credulously.
00:56:52.320 I once sent Matt
00:56:53.920 and Camille
00:56:54.280 this thing from NPR
00:56:55.960 that was a half an hour
00:56:57.140 in which no skepticism
00:56:59.080 was ever evinced
00:57:01.220 on this case at all.
00:57:02.300 And people just saying
00:57:02.960 that this happens
00:57:03.540 all the time.
00:57:04.440 And this is just life
00:57:05.740 in Trump's America.
00:57:06.760 Again,
00:57:07.020 it's the narrative.
00:57:07.840 They wanted to prove it.
00:57:09.020 And so therefore,
00:57:09.620 you have to suspend
00:57:11.260 all disbelief,
00:57:12.320 all these things
00:57:12.920 that are clearly fake
00:57:13.680 about it.
00:57:14.020 You have to push to the side
00:57:14.920 because the narrative
00:57:15.360 is more important.
00:57:16.640 We have an ongoing
00:57:17.340 text.
00:57:18.420 That was pre-George Floyd.
00:57:19.500 It would be even worse
00:57:21.800 in this direction
00:57:22.380 post-George Floyd.
00:57:23.160 Go ahead, Matt.
00:57:23.720 Yeah.
00:57:24.560 We have an ongoing
00:57:25.680 text thread
00:57:26.320 between the three of us
00:57:27.300 on the Fifth Column podcast
00:57:28.740 as we did at the time
00:57:30.680 with this specific case.
00:57:32.020 I think for us,
00:57:33.000 the equivalent
00:57:34.140 to the Moynihan
00:57:35.220 understanding
00:57:35.820 that the bottle of beer
00:57:36.960 doesn't break
00:57:37.460 on the person's forehead
00:57:38.600 and all that,
00:57:40.340 we had a pretty good indication,
00:57:42.420 just intuition,
00:57:43.980 that a famous-ish actor
00:57:46.860 is not going to go foraging
00:57:48.500 for subway sandwiches
00:57:49.800 at two o'clock
00:57:50.860 in the morning
00:57:51.480 during a polar vortex
00:57:52.940 in Chicago.
00:57:54.020 That didn't seem
00:57:54.800 like a likely thing
00:57:55.820 that was going to be happening
00:57:56.800 anytime soon.
00:57:58.620 What I think
00:57:59.800 this demonstrates
00:58:00.400 is that the people
00:58:02.000 who claim to believe
00:58:03.660 and maybe they do believe
00:58:05.920 to some degree
00:58:07.480 that we live
00:58:08.680 amidst
00:58:09.640 systemic racism,
00:58:11.540 people who use
00:58:11.960 the word white supremacy
00:58:12.760 not to talk about
00:58:13.440 people in hoods,
00:58:14.340 but to talk about
00:58:14.840 the overall structure
00:58:16.040 that is fundamentally unfair,
00:58:18.980 people who say that
00:58:19.900 somehow in their hearts
00:58:21.460 or at least many
00:58:22.280 of the people
00:58:22.640 who will nod their heads
00:58:23.560 at that time
00:58:24.060 don't believe it
00:58:24.880 because it's not enough.
00:58:26.340 That's an argument.
00:58:27.260 It's an argument
00:58:27.920 that I disagree with
00:58:29.100 and I think
00:58:29.600 or it's certainly
00:58:30.520 a line of analysis
00:58:31.440 that therefore
00:58:32.780 if you're going to take it
00:58:33.880 to its logical extreme,
00:58:35.980 you're going to say,
00:58:36.760 okay,
00:58:37.080 so minimum wage
00:58:38.180 is systematically racist.
00:58:39.720 For example,
00:58:40.540 there's a lot of
00:58:41.020 for the gun control
00:58:41.880 is systematically racist.
00:58:43.200 They don't tend to go
00:58:44.380 full hog
00:58:45.700 with that kind of thing
00:58:46.580 but the reason
00:58:48.000 why you have
00:58:48.440 so many hoaxes
00:58:49.540 is exactly because
00:58:51.000 that supply and demand
00:58:52.000 problem.
00:58:52.740 You need to have
00:58:53.740 splashy indications,
00:58:56.060 splashy news events
00:58:57.160 to show that seed
00:58:58.280 this is just simmering
00:58:59.320 right there
00:58:59.720 below the surface
00:59:00.440 ready to be activated
00:59:01.740 at any given time.
00:59:03.320 Part of that
00:59:04.100 shows you
00:59:05.260 or allegedly shows you
00:59:07.400 that we haven't
00:59:09.160 made progress
00:59:09.780 over the last 50 years,
00:59:11.040 10 years,
00:59:11.640 whatever the number is,
00:59:13.300 that it's just always
00:59:14.640 it's in fact
00:59:15.360 maybe getting worse
00:59:16.060 after all we did
00:59:16.720 elect Donald Trump
00:59:17.420 and I have some sympathy
00:59:18.600 with that line of argument
00:59:19.860 to be clear
00:59:20.680 but I don't have sympathy
00:59:21.900 with the argument
00:59:22.460 that America
00:59:23.360 is just a seating hotbed
00:59:24.620 of racism
00:59:25.460 at given times.
00:59:26.820 You can make that
00:59:27.540 structural argument
00:59:28.400 and you're going to find
00:59:29.700 a lot of people
00:59:30.200 raising their eyebrows
00:59:30.960 because it doesn't
00:59:31.500 make intuitive sense
00:59:32.300 because when they
00:59:32.740 hear a phrase
00:59:34.440 like white supremacy
00:59:35.320 they're like,
00:59:36.060 huh, that's weird.
00:59:36.980 I've never really met
00:59:37.920 a white supremacist
00:59:38.940 and it goes
00:59:40.020 wise in the face
00:59:41.500 of everything
00:59:41.860 that I've heard
00:59:42.440 but the reason
00:59:43.440 why we have
00:59:43.780 so many of these
00:59:44.440 swastikas here
00:59:45.580 and this and that
00:59:46.300 and, you know,
00:59:48.000 probably there's been
00:59:49.280 at least 25 of these
00:59:50.600 that we've texted
00:59:51.400 each other,
00:59:51.860 nope, this one's
00:59:52.520 not going to pan out
00:59:53.460 and they never do.
00:59:54.500 They never do.
00:59:55.420 Particularly when
00:59:55.980 there's a noose involved.
00:59:57.580 That's always the one.
00:59:58.500 That's always the giveaway.
00:59:59.280 There's always this news thing
01:00:00.080 is the tell.
01:00:02.040 But to...
01:00:02.840 We had a noose
01:00:03.440 in Gilroy, California,
01:00:04.800 didn't we?
01:00:05.100 Yes, just this week.
01:00:06.260 This week turned out
01:00:07.680 to be a guy
01:00:08.820 who was using...
01:00:10.400 I think who was
01:00:11.020 an immigrant
01:00:12.500 using the rope
01:00:13.900 to cut down
01:00:14.500 a branch of a tree
01:00:15.300 but it was left there
01:00:16.460 and they're like,
01:00:17.400 oh, this is clearly racist.
01:00:18.760 They looked at the footage
01:00:19.700 and it was just a guy
01:00:20.700 cutting off a branch of a tree.
01:00:23.020 But, you know,
01:00:23.460 I mean,
01:00:23.720 you have to make everybody
01:00:24.740 white supremacist
01:00:25.600 when people understand
01:00:26.840 white supremacy
01:00:27.480 to meet David Duke
01:00:28.360 because if you don't
01:00:29.300 interact with them,
01:00:30.600 people start
01:00:31.300 not trusting you.
01:00:32.760 When you...
01:00:33.260 Anything that you come across
01:00:34.420 is, you know,
01:00:35.180 the new Jurassic Park movie
01:00:36.620 is racist.
01:00:37.660 People are like,
01:00:38.300 you know, what?
01:00:38.980 Seriously?
01:00:39.600 So then you need
01:00:40.600 these things
01:00:41.220 that are manifestations
01:00:42.860 of violence,
01:00:43.700 particularly racially based.
01:00:45.960 I mean,
01:00:46.120 even the George Floyd thing,
01:00:47.060 which I think
01:00:47.440 is a pretty interesting thing
01:00:48.480 when you look back on it,
01:00:49.840 out of the heat
01:00:50.520 of that moment
01:00:51.140 was that the prosecution
01:00:52.280 never brought up race
01:00:53.580 during the prosecution
01:00:55.100 of Derek Chauvin.
01:00:56.100 It did not come up.
01:00:57.480 If you don't believe
01:00:58.000 you go and look at it.
01:00:58.620 It was a successful project.
01:01:00.560 You didn't need it
01:01:01.280 and it's not
01:01:01.960 they were saying like,
01:01:02.580 ah, this is too explosive.
01:01:03.920 They didn't have evidence of it.
01:01:05.420 It was presumed
01:01:06.440 and they,
01:01:07.240 obviously in a court of law,
01:01:08.760 understand that
01:01:09.560 they would leave
01:01:10.060 something like this out
01:01:11.360 because there's no way
01:01:12.380 to prove something like that.
01:01:13.960 But in the discourse,
01:01:14.940 it changed life, right?
01:01:16.900 Same thing with Kyle Rittenhouse
01:01:17.900 where you had the,
01:01:19.120 you had Joe Biden
01:01:20.020 calling him a white supremacist,
01:01:21.920 none of which
01:01:22.920 was ever proved
01:01:24.060 or introduced.
01:01:24.960 There is absolutely
01:01:25.600 no evidence of that
01:01:26.480 and there was no apology
01:01:28.260 to Kyle Rittenhouse.
01:01:28.940 Like the,
01:01:29.260 and by the way,
01:01:30.580 you know,
01:01:30.800 the two men
01:01:32.280 I'm trying to remember
01:01:33.720 all the facts,
01:01:34.340 but you had all the media
01:01:35.660 claiming that he shot
01:01:36.660 black men, right?
01:01:37.820 And it was like,
01:01:38.500 yeah, a bunch of people
01:01:39.200 did say that, yeah.
01:01:40.340 Right?
01:01:40.760 And anyway,
01:01:41.300 and then they weren't,
01:01:42.020 but to two points
01:01:44.920 that at one point
01:01:45.580 that I wanted to make
01:01:46.080 and then to advance it.
01:01:48.220 Phil Houston,
01:01:49.200 human lie detector,
01:01:50.500 CIA,
01:01:51.240 would say that
01:01:52.320 that Jussie Smollett's
01:01:53.580 resort to,
01:01:54.560 if I did that,
01:01:55.680 if I'm not innocent,
01:01:56.940 it would mean
01:01:57.900 I'm offending
01:01:58.540 the black community
01:01:59.220 and the LGBTQ community.
01:02:01.060 That's what we call
01:02:01.680 convincing behavior.
01:02:03.500 And remember,
01:02:04.060 OJ's book was called
01:02:05.100 If I Did It.
01:02:06.420 Right, right, right.
01:02:07.580 But a truth teller,
01:02:08.600 if you were wrongly accused
01:02:10.800 of perpetuating
01:02:11.780 some sort of a race hoax,
01:02:13.720 you would stand up
01:02:14.660 and be like,
01:02:15.120 this is bullshit.
01:02:16.200 I did not do it.
01:02:18.020 You know,
01:02:18.320 I've been wrongly convicted.
01:02:19.940 You would not be like,
01:02:21.140 and if I did it,
01:02:22.240 it would be so offensive
01:02:23.480 to the following groups
01:02:24.480 that I've spent my life
01:02:25.580 representing
01:02:26.100 and trying to help it
01:02:27.060 and I would never
01:02:28.060 and I,
01:02:28.680 you know,
01:02:29.040 like,
01:02:29.520 anyway,
01:02:29.700 it's just an interesting thing
01:02:30.560 to watch a liar in action
01:02:32.020 because it gives us new
01:02:32.960 things to think about
01:02:34.060 when we are subjected
01:02:35.040 to somebody else's lies.
01:02:36.780 Okay,
01:02:36.940 so what you're saying
01:02:37.900 about how,
01:02:38.680 you know,
01:02:39.420 the whole narrative,
01:02:40.260 it's,
01:02:40.660 it is the hammer
01:02:41.720 looking for the nail,
01:02:42.640 right?
01:02:42.940 And there aren't
01:02:43.320 that many nails
01:02:43.960 and so they've got
01:02:44.480 to invent white supremacy
01:02:45.500 here,
01:02:46.560 there and everywhere.
01:02:47.860 Ties in nicely
01:02:48.640 what we've seen
01:02:49.300 happening in the world
01:02:50.400 of DEI.
01:02:51.720 Robin DiAngelo
01:02:52.600 and her friends
01:02:53.720 in this community
01:02:54.480 are getting depressed.
01:02:55.980 They're getting downtrodden
01:02:57.300 and they're losing hope
01:02:58.760 that their weird,
01:03:00.420 racist messaging
01:03:01.400 is somehow
01:03:02.380 not catching on.
01:03:03.920 The,
01:03:04.400 the,
01:03:04.640 the explosion
01:03:05.640 of her book
01:03:06.280 White Fragility
01:03:06.940 after George Floyd
01:03:07.980 had been written
01:03:08.440 before George Floyd
01:03:09.260 but it exploded,
01:03:09.860 exploded after
01:03:10.580 and all of the money
01:03:12.420 she made
01:03:13.000 doing Zoom calls
01:03:13.980 during the pandemic
01:03:14.800 about how white people
01:03:15.980 are too fragile
01:03:16.700 to understand the truth
01:03:17.780 which is we're all racist
01:03:18.820 and so on.
01:03:20.100 Apparently,
01:03:20.680 corporations
01:03:21.120 are not responding
01:03:22.640 well to it.
01:03:23.560 Now she,
01:03:24.720 this,
01:03:25.020 this,
01:03:25.640 this is from FAIR,
01:03:26.900 Foundation Against
01:03:27.600 Intelligence,
01:03:28.380 Intolerance and Racism.
01:03:29.820 They produced this
01:03:31.520 in a Substack article
01:03:32.300 by Joseph Klein
01:03:33.040 and they,
01:03:34.120 they noticed
01:03:34.740 that there was this,
01:03:35.840 I don't know,
01:03:37.740 a webinar,
01:03:38.320 I guess,
01:03:38.660 called Racial Justice,
01:03:40.040 The Next Frontier
01:03:40.860 and it included
01:03:41.720 Robin DiAngelo
01:03:42.900 and DEI consultants
01:03:44.340 Marisha and Reese
01:03:46.960 and Mary Frances Winters
01:03:48.400 and it's amazing
01:03:50.020 because they are
01:03:51.700 upset about how
01:03:54.060 no one wants them
01:03:55.800 anymore.
01:03:56.780 Listen to this.
01:03:59.480 So we thought
01:04:00.380 maybe in 2020
01:04:01.740 we had a movement
01:04:02.620 and then we said,
01:04:04.140 well,
01:04:04.560 let's hope it's not
01:04:05.600 just a moment
01:04:06.280 and now we're saying
01:04:07.440 perhaps it's a memory
01:04:08.360 because
01:04:08.920 the system
01:04:11.160 is just so entrenched
01:04:12.240 and it's so difficult
01:04:13.160 to even move
01:04:14.540 just a little bit
01:04:15.300 and here's what
01:04:16.340 I'm hearing a lot.
01:04:17.680 We hear this a lot.
01:04:19.980 Our leaders
01:04:20.880 are too uncomfortable
01:04:22.280 with this.
01:04:23.120 We've actually
01:04:23.560 lost contracts
01:04:24.920 when people have said
01:04:25.980 we want to do
01:04:26.500 anti-racism work
01:04:27.400 and we go in
01:04:28.100 and they say,
01:04:28.900 oh,
01:04:29.560 this is what you mean
01:04:30.700 by anti-racism work?
01:04:31.940 Oh,
01:04:32.380 we didn't,
01:04:33.580 that's not what
01:04:34.020 we signed up for.
01:04:35.580 So yeah,
01:04:36.480 so you see that
01:04:37.360 that fragility
01:04:38.260 centering white comfort
01:04:40.560 is so alive
01:04:42.140 and well.
01:04:43.200 Just last week
01:04:44.020 I heard something
01:04:44.920 like we're not ready
01:04:46.880 for justice
01:04:47.660 in our work
01:04:48.720 even though
01:04:49.380 that's what we,
01:04:50.200 that's what they signed up for.
01:04:51.620 Our board members
01:04:52.640 are just not,
01:04:53.340 are just not ready for that.
01:04:54.780 And so white people
01:04:55.400 have to build their stamina
01:04:56.440 and I'm thinking
01:04:58.540 for now
01:04:59.860 if an organization
01:05:01.320 is saying
01:05:01.900 we're not ready
01:05:02.740 I think they should be
01:05:03.980 really honest about that
01:05:05.380 and they should be
01:05:06.300 explicit about that
01:05:07.520 and then people
01:05:08.140 can make conscious decisions
01:05:09.460 about whether they want
01:05:10.280 to support that organization
01:05:11.640 but right now
01:05:12.900 we have this,
01:05:14.060 you know,
01:05:14.540 proclaimed investment
01:05:16.920 with absolutely
01:05:17.860 no true investment.
01:05:21.340 Hallelujah.
01:05:22.260 They're failing
01:05:22.880 and they're being rejected.
01:05:24.940 Yeah.
01:05:25.780 Yeah.
01:05:26.140 And they're claiming
01:05:27.460 the old
01:05:28.460 Friedrich Engels
01:05:29.700 expression of
01:05:30.740 false consciousness.
01:05:32.000 The reason why
01:05:32.780 the working class
01:05:33.620 is not with
01:05:34.320 the Communist Party movement
01:05:35.500 is that
01:05:36.640 they don't understand it.
01:05:38.320 And it's not because
01:05:38.980 they disagree with us,
01:05:39.920 it's because
01:05:40.380 they've been convinced
01:05:41.180 by the capitalist press
01:05:42.340 that this is what was said,
01:05:43.600 you know,
01:05:43.920 in the late 19th
01:05:45.440 and 20th century
01:05:46.460 why they couldn't get people
01:05:47.600 in the working class on board.
01:05:48.960 It's the exact same thing
01:05:50.180 that is being said.
01:05:51.300 It's not,
01:05:51.860 no one is considering
01:05:52.640 at some point
01:05:53.480 that people
01:05:54.420 in a work context
01:05:55.600 are perfectly happy
01:05:56.640 and, you know,
01:05:57.100 as a word,
01:05:57.620 I'm perfectly happy
01:05:58.320 if at some point
01:05:59.380 the HR person says,
01:06:00.620 you know,
01:06:01.040 you can't racially discriminate
01:06:02.800 because it's against federal law,
01:06:04.260 it's immoral
01:06:05.280 and it's wrong
01:06:06.140 and it creates
01:06:06.680 a terrible work environment,
01:06:08.220 all of which is true.
01:06:09.080 But that's what people sign up for
01:06:11.560 and they're saying
01:06:12.180 they can't for one second
01:06:13.860 imagine that they are extremists
01:06:16.620 and they are.
01:06:17.680 They need the stuff.
01:06:18.540 It's extreme.
01:06:19.540 Nobody agrees with this stuff.
01:06:20.920 If you were to actually
01:06:21.540 put Robin DiAngelo's quotes
01:06:23.280 in front of random people
01:06:25.140 and poll them,
01:06:26.200 you'd get 90%,
01:06:27.360 I am guessing,
01:06:28.160 that would say
01:06:28.520 this stuff
01:06:29.180 is absolutely bonkers.
01:06:31.760 So when they say
01:06:32.520 and they can never,
01:06:33.460 ever confront,
01:06:34.420 it's racist too,
01:06:35.640 they can never confront
01:06:36.720 that they might be wrong
01:06:37.700 or they might,
01:06:38.900 you know,
01:06:39.140 be processing this stuff
01:06:40.680 in a totally bizarro,
01:06:42.420 radical, extreme way.
01:06:43.740 They say,
01:06:44.380 oh, you know,
01:06:45.020 there's some white,
01:06:46.340 and again,
01:06:46.740 this is the racist thing
01:06:47.480 because you're actually saying
01:06:48.060 an entire race
01:06:48.900 has this immutable characteristic.
01:06:51.680 It's white fragility.
01:06:53.240 It's white discomfort.
01:06:54.740 We have to destroy
01:06:55.840 white discomfort.
01:06:57.100 It's like,
01:06:57.520 no, no, no.
01:06:58.000 They just think
01:06:58.520 you're fucking crazy.
01:06:59.620 I'm sorry.
01:07:00.000 I just swore.
01:07:00.880 No, it's okay.
01:07:01.620 It's only me and my mom at Lent.
01:07:03.300 Oh, is your mom,
01:07:04.420 sorry,
01:07:05.300 Megyn Kelly's mom,
01:07:05.960 I apologize.
01:07:06.520 No, my mom said,
01:07:07.020 you know,
01:07:07.460 you swear a lot.
01:07:08.360 She said,
01:07:08.680 if you could just get rid
01:07:09.500 of the F-bomb,
01:07:10.120 she doesn't care about
01:07:10.660 you doing it.
01:07:11.400 It's me.
01:07:11.940 Oh, okay.
01:07:12.420 And so I agreed
01:07:13.020 to try for Lent.
01:07:13.940 So you're good.
01:07:14.640 You're fine.
01:07:16.340 Patrick's annoyed there.
01:07:17.640 Shouldn't you have
01:07:18.200 a little Irish solidarity
01:07:19.420 here in one hand?
01:07:20.180 You know what?
01:07:20.780 I'm saving that
01:07:21.860 for the last block.
01:07:22.820 If you must know,
01:07:23.540 there's going to be
01:07:24.000 a little exciting
01:07:24.900 St. Patrick's.
01:07:28.380 I've had the misfortune
01:07:29.940 both to live
01:07:30.960 in a universe
01:07:32.060 where these concepts
01:07:34.200 are constantly
01:07:35.480 thrumming around
01:07:36.400 in the New York City
01:07:36.980 school system
01:07:37.580 in my neighborhood
01:07:38.140 in Brooklyn
01:07:38.560 where there's like
01:07:39.500 an entire section
01:07:40.460 of the local bookstore
01:07:41.580 that's just like
01:07:42.280 Robin DiAngelo
01:07:43.040 and Abraham X.
01:07:43.800 Kendi and on and on
01:07:45.140 and on kids' books.
01:07:47.020 I've seen this stuff
01:07:47.980 for a while
01:07:48.380 and written about it
01:07:49.220 and Michael's
01:07:50.640 absolutely right
01:07:51.440 in that when
01:07:52.600 normal people
01:07:53.880 see this,
01:07:55.240 they're like,
01:07:55.500 what?
01:07:56.400 It's not just
01:07:57.380 the vocabulary
01:07:58.780 that is kind of crazy
01:08:00.960 and the
01:08:01.680 actually kind of
01:08:04.720 racist
01:08:05.660 or, you know,
01:08:07.500 just making
01:08:07.980 spectacular generalizations
01:08:09.640 on people
01:08:10.120 based on their
01:08:10.620 immutable characteristics
01:08:12.120 that strikes people
01:08:13.420 as strange
01:08:13.880 but also
01:08:14.440 there is no joy
01:08:15.900 at the end
01:08:16.320 of the rainbow.
01:08:17.300 Usually in the
01:08:17.940 self-help book
01:08:18.640 you're going to get
01:08:19.400 to a place
01:08:19.940 that's good.
01:08:20.880 The Robin DiAngelo
01:08:21.740 thing,
01:08:22.060 the only place
01:08:22.840 that you get to
01:08:23.560 is more DEI training.
01:08:24.940 You've got to do
01:08:25.280 more work,
01:08:25.860 more work,
01:08:26.360 spend more money
01:08:27.000 on the work.
01:08:28.160 I love the fact
01:08:28.780 that they're saying
01:08:29.580 that these organizations
01:08:31.120 said that they
01:08:31.700 are just not
01:08:32.520 frankly ready
01:08:33.180 to support justice.
01:08:34.280 They didn't say that.
01:08:35.600 That's not what they said.
01:08:36.760 What they probably said
01:08:37.980 was,
01:08:38.720 wow,
01:08:38.900 this is costing
01:08:39.400 a lot of money.
01:08:40.380 This is a pyramid scheme.
01:08:41.660 Crazy.
01:08:42.920 We started
01:08:44.520 the fifth column
01:08:45.960 in 2016
01:08:46.660 and we talked
01:08:48.200 a lot about
01:08:48.820 this stuff
01:08:49.180 at the beginning
01:08:49.620 because it was
01:08:50.020 really starting
01:08:50.860 to take off
01:08:51.520 and Camille
01:08:52.440 has a special
01:08:53.080 allergy towards this
01:08:54.120 and Michael
01:08:55.260 and I have
01:08:55.820 honed ours
01:08:57.000 over the years
01:08:57.540 too.
01:08:58.180 I would say,
01:08:59.000 Mike,
01:08:59.560 what would you say?
01:08:59.980 At least 250
01:09:01.220 detailed emails
01:09:02.500 and it might be
01:09:03.020 2,500.
01:09:04.560 Way more than that,
01:09:05.200 yeah.
01:09:05.540 From people
01:09:06.200 who,
01:09:07.120 you know,
01:09:07.300 one guy
01:09:07.840 who's an entrepreneur
01:09:08.580 at his own company,
01:09:09.880 his own small company,
01:09:11.060 was called
01:09:12.500 on the carpet
01:09:13.020 and like forced
01:09:13.820 to do some DEI
01:09:14.700 training.
01:09:15.120 People who work
01:09:16.220 in the military
01:09:16.760 and all these places,
01:09:17.740 they never expected
01:09:18.920 to be sat down.
01:09:20.120 They talk about
01:09:20.880 these things
01:09:21.440 and occasionally
01:09:22.380 they tell happy stories
01:09:24.500 where they had
01:09:25.000 an actual conversation
01:09:26.380 where they registered
01:09:27.440 individualistic
01:09:28.860 kind of complaints
01:09:29.860 about it
01:09:30.440 and, you know,
01:09:31.940 prompted discussions
01:09:32.920 but for the most part
01:09:33.840 they just kind of
01:09:34.740 sit on their hands,
01:09:35.760 shake their heads
01:09:36.420 and every normal person
01:09:37.700 in the room
01:09:38.300 is just checking
01:09:39.160 their watch
01:09:39.760 and ready for it to go.
01:09:41.240 So of course
01:09:41.660 you're going to lose
01:09:42.180 support for that
01:09:43.000 in any kind of
01:09:44.360 moment of economic
01:09:45.820 belt tightening
01:09:46.560 because you're bumming
01:09:47.780 people out.
01:09:48.520 You're not really
01:09:48.900 teaching them
01:09:49.580 and here's the
01:09:50.740 fun fact of it
01:09:52.600 is that
01:09:53.080 if you happen
01:09:53.820 to be from
01:09:54.460 a recognized
01:09:56.720 minority of any sort
01:09:58.300 chances are
01:09:59.420 you are then
01:10:00.300 going to be
01:10:01.020 like the Asian person
01:10:02.980 who has to now
01:10:03.900 organize a celebration
01:10:05.120 for the Lunar New Year
01:10:06.160 which you didn't care about.
01:10:07.640 What am I doing?
01:10:09.320 Like a couple
01:10:10.580 of gay dad friends
01:10:11.400 of mine
01:10:11.840 were like,
01:10:12.800 okay,
01:10:13.100 you're going to do
01:10:13.540 the gay workshop.
01:10:14.520 They're like,
01:10:14.720 no,
01:10:15.220 this is like a software company.
01:10:16.680 I'm going to do work.
01:10:17.700 My daughter's school
01:10:19.380 is like this.
01:10:20.840 It's always like
01:10:21.460 celebrating
01:10:21.840 Kazakh New Year
01:10:22.780 and I'm like,
01:10:23.180 are there any Kazakh
01:10:23.820 people there?
01:10:24.500 She's like,
01:10:24.640 no,
01:10:25.140 we just do everything.
01:10:26.120 My daughter said the same.
01:10:27.000 She's like hanging there
01:10:28.320 with her friends of color
01:10:29.620 and then the school
01:10:30.860 separates them
01:10:32.340 because they want to
01:10:33.340 shepherd off
01:10:33.900 the girls of color
01:10:34.800 to go be in their own
01:10:35.880 quote affinity group.
01:10:37.180 Meanwhile,
01:10:37.480 they were all together
01:10:38.500 the way we've always
01:10:40.320 envisioned,
01:10:40.840 the way MLK envisioned,
01:10:42.460 right?
01:10:42.620 Like no one's paying
01:10:43.360 attention to skin color
01:10:44.340 until the school is like,
01:10:45.980 you will pay attention
01:10:46.740 to it right now.
01:10:48.240 And that leads me
01:10:49.240 to the second sound bite
01:10:50.000 I wanted to run
01:10:50.640 for you guys
01:10:51.280 from this meeting
01:10:52.700 where Robin DiAngelo,
01:10:54.380 you tell me,
01:10:55.240 to me she sounds
01:10:56.060 an awful lot like
01:10:57.080 Scott Adams
01:10:58.200 in his statement
01:10:59.780 that got him canceled.
01:11:01.580 Okay?
01:11:02.020 There was international
01:11:03.100 outrage over what
01:11:04.060 Scott Adams said.
01:11:05.220 This is not that far
01:11:06.600 afield.
01:11:07.420 Here's Robin DiAngelo
01:11:08.980 on in
01:11:09.840 SOT 3,
01:11:11.360 sound bite 3.
01:11:12.080 I'm a big believer
01:11:14.800 in affinity space
01:11:15.980 and affinity work
01:11:17.240 and I think
01:11:18.100 people of color
01:11:18.620 need to get away
01:11:19.460 from white people
01:11:20.320 and have some
01:11:22.740 community
01:11:23.340 with each other.
01:11:26.180 Yeah.
01:11:26.940 Can you imagine
01:11:27.560 like saying that
01:11:29.460 about white people?
01:11:30.900 Oh,
01:11:31.100 I really think
01:11:31.720 white people
01:11:32.100 need to get away
01:11:33.060 from black people.
01:11:34.480 I mean,
01:11:34.640 that's basically
01:11:35.320 what Scott Adams said
01:11:36.460 and now he lost
01:11:37.640 his cartoon
01:11:38.120 and he was
01:11:39.420 condemned by everybody.
01:11:41.420 But you can say it
01:11:42.120 if you're Robin DiAngelo
01:11:43.000 the other way around.
01:11:44.340 Two things about that
01:11:45.260 is that he shouldn't
01:11:46.260 have lost his cartoon.
01:11:47.660 You should let the market
01:11:48.420 decide that.
01:11:49.360 And the second thing
01:11:50.020 is what he said
01:11:50.640 was stupid.
01:11:51.340 And I think everyone
01:11:52.320 should acknowledge that
01:11:53.120 because it is a mirror image
01:11:54.380 of what Robin DiAngelo says
01:11:56.200 because black people
01:11:57.480 should get away
01:11:57.860 from white people,
01:11:58.720 white people.
01:11:59.280 It's at this collectivization
01:12:01.240 of who people are
01:12:03.340 is the thing
01:12:04.000 that we hopefully
01:12:04.940 have been fighting against
01:12:05.920 unsuccessfully,
01:12:07.400 apparently,
01:12:07.960 for a number of years.
01:12:09.440 But, you know,
01:12:09.860 to Matt's point,
01:12:10.680 it is like,
01:12:11.340 you know,
01:12:11.640 we owe Robin DiAngelo,
01:12:14.220 Matt and I,
01:12:14.880 and Camille in particular,
01:12:16.560 a thank you
01:12:17.900 because the number
01:12:19.100 of emails that we get
01:12:20.040 that always start
01:12:20.940 with this preamble.
01:12:21.900 Matt,
01:12:22.100 tell me if I'm wrong
01:12:22.760 about this.
01:12:23.520 60, 70 percent,
01:12:24.560 they say,
01:12:25.280 hey,
01:12:25.580 I'm like a liberal.
01:12:27.120 You know,
01:12:27.240 I live in a city too.
01:12:28.140 I'm a Democrat.
01:12:28.900 But like,
01:12:29.360 what is going on?
01:12:31.200 And I found your podcast
01:12:32.420 and I'm like,
01:12:32.900 thank you,
01:12:33.320 Robin DiAngelo.
01:12:34.060 You've taken another person
01:12:35.460 and converted them
01:12:36.320 to sense
01:12:36.940 and brought them to us.
01:12:38.240 So that's been
01:12:38.860 the only positive thing
01:12:39.820 about it.
01:12:40.200 But people don't tend
01:12:41.840 to like,
01:12:42.300 particularly of a
01:12:42.820 generational thing,
01:12:44.020 because Megan,
01:12:45.040 Matt,
01:12:45.300 all of us
01:12:45.900 have come from a generation
01:12:46.880 that whether it was
01:12:48.040 effective or not,
01:12:49.060 it was the narrative
01:12:50.380 which was that
01:12:51.540 collectivization
01:12:52.280 of group,
01:12:53.280 you know,
01:12:53.680 characteristics
01:12:54.220 is wrong.
01:12:55.580 And why do we know
01:12:56.620 that's wrong?
01:12:57.220 Not because it's
01:12:57.900 some philosophical thing
01:12:59.020 that we read in a book,
01:12:59.780 but observationally,
01:13:01.280 we know it's stupid
01:13:01.960 and wrong.
01:13:02.540 Because you can't say,
01:13:03.840 I mean,
01:13:04.000 the number of people
01:13:04.520 that have said to Camille,
01:13:05.380 and I wish he was here
01:13:05.980 to talk about this
01:13:06.660 and not in bloody Peru.
01:13:07.820 Is he trying to get away
01:13:09.380 from us right now?
01:13:10.040 Is that what's happening?
01:13:11.580 Yeah.
01:13:12.660 Robin D'Angelo
01:13:13.300 texted him
01:13:14.020 and she was like,
01:13:14.760 you're not far away
01:13:15.640 from these people.
01:13:16.360 And he was like,
01:13:16.660 I'm getting on the line.
01:13:17.880 Non-black fragility.
01:13:19.460 That's what I mean.
01:13:21.440 Yeah,
01:13:21.800 he has Baltimore fragility.
01:13:23.880 He's not from Baltimore.
01:13:24.600 He's from Maryland.
01:13:25.240 But that kind of thing,
01:13:26.420 though,
01:13:26.580 is like,
01:13:27.100 you know,
01:13:27.620 crazy that Camille and I,
01:13:28.820 the people who say to him,
01:13:30.160 oh,
01:13:30.280 you're not
01:13:30.980 authentically
01:13:32.680 black.
01:13:33.880 And then,
01:13:34.840 of course,
01:13:35.360 there are 150 million ways
01:13:38.120 of being black.
01:13:39.820 In another way of saying that,
01:13:41.560 there's a lot of ways
01:13:42.140 of being human.
01:13:42.840 I mean,
01:13:43.080 the black thing is irrelevant.
01:13:44.940 But yeah,
01:13:45.540 I mean,
01:13:45.880 questioning somebody's
01:13:47.100 racial affinity
01:13:48.860 and their racial commitment
01:13:50.920 is one of the most
01:13:52.080 offensive things
01:13:52.680 that I can imagine.
01:13:54.520 And it's also something
01:13:55.320 that's never passed towards us.
01:13:57.820 We're not like,
01:13:59.040 oh,
01:13:59.160 you're not being
01:13:59.560 authentically white.
01:14:00.880 I mean,
01:14:01.180 that is where
01:14:02.040 privilege comes from.
01:14:03.340 We are,
01:14:03.620 the norm
01:14:04.400 because we are the norm.
01:14:06.180 We're expected
01:14:07.080 to have a diversity
01:14:08.020 of approaches
01:14:09.020 towards our lives
01:14:10.040 and our relationship
01:14:11.040 with whether we even
01:14:12.800 self-identify
01:14:13.960 as white or not,
01:14:15.440 which I increasingly
01:14:16.160 don't check those boxes
01:14:17.380 whenever asked.
01:14:18.600 And like,
01:14:19.040 imagine thinking like,
01:14:20.220 I'm waking up
01:14:20.880 and thinking like,
01:14:21.700 I'm a white person
01:14:22.740 and I have to like,
01:14:23.800 like defend whiteness.
01:14:25.060 Like,
01:14:25.220 what the hell
01:14:26.260 are you people
01:14:27.340 talking about?
01:14:28.360 And yet,
01:14:28.820 we impose this
01:14:29.840 on basically
01:14:30.440 every other group.
01:14:32.140 But look,
01:14:32.480 look what she's doing.
01:14:33.600 there.
01:14:34.020 I mean,
01:14:34.220 what's baked
01:14:36.220 into what she's saying
01:14:37.180 is,
01:14:37.620 you know,
01:14:37.920 the black people
01:14:39.560 really need to get away
01:14:40.320 from white people.
01:14:41.380 It's baked in.
01:14:42.200 White people are,
01:14:43.140 they're annoying.
01:14:44.380 They're awful.
01:14:45.360 Of course,
01:14:45.880 you'd need a break from them.
01:14:46.840 My God,
01:14:47.320 they're terrible.
01:14:48.060 And that's her whole thing.
01:14:49.000 I'm terrible.
01:14:50.000 She actually recommends
01:14:51.020 in this book
01:14:51.420 that a white person,
01:14:52.380 whenever she or he
01:14:53.300 walks into a room
01:14:53.940 with a black person,
01:14:54.940 start off
01:14:55.980 by apologizing.
01:14:57.700 Just,
01:14:58.380 hi,
01:14:59.000 I'm sorry
01:14:59.820 I'm white
01:15:00.240 and for all the sins
01:15:01.220 of the white people.
01:15:02.180 I mean,
01:15:02.340 like,
01:15:02.520 this is just so incredibly
01:15:03.580 weird.
01:15:04.160 No,
01:15:04.380 but don't do it
01:15:04.860 extravagantly,
01:15:05.640 Megan.
01:15:05.960 That's also,
01:15:06.600 because that is also
01:15:08.200 assuming your privilege.
01:15:09.940 No,
01:15:10.100 really,
01:15:10.320 I've read down
01:15:11.380 to the kernels
01:15:12.900 of her book
01:15:14.440 and it's so terrifyingly bleak
01:15:17.120 and unpleasant.
01:15:19.300 You can't imagine her
01:15:20.360 cracking a smile
01:15:21.340 except a rueful smile
01:15:22.880 on,
01:15:23.380 like,
01:15:23.560 it just sucks
01:15:24.120 to be so rich
01:15:24.980 peddling white guilt
01:15:26.440 to people,
01:15:27.020 which she absolutely does
01:15:28.360 very successfully.
01:15:30.020 One quick point,
01:15:31.060 my eight-year-old
01:15:31.820 just had a DEI
01:15:33.320 type of seminar
01:15:34.100 yesterday
01:15:34.680 at her private school
01:15:36.220 in New York
01:15:37.040 and they read a book
01:15:37.880 about,
01:15:38.540 or they read a story
01:15:39.340 about a kid
01:15:41.220 from China,
01:15:42.780 I think,
01:15:43.220 who transfers
01:15:43.960 to America
01:15:44.660 at a school
01:15:45.800 and is treated
01:15:46.760 really mean
01:15:47.260 at her school
01:15:47.780 and that's bad
01:15:48.420 and we shouldn't
01:15:48.940 treat people mean.
01:15:50.160 And I asked her
01:15:51.380 and I wasn't being
01:15:51.880 leading in any way.
01:15:52.600 I was just kind of curious
01:15:53.220 how the whole thing went.
01:15:54.120 I'm like,
01:15:54.580 imagine that happened
01:15:55.380 at your school.
01:15:56.360 Like,
01:15:56.480 you got a girl
01:15:57.840 from China tomorrow.
01:15:59.740 What would happen?
01:16:00.640 And she's like,
01:16:01.060 we would be totally happy
01:16:02.360 to talk to the kid
01:16:03.640 from China.
01:16:04.240 That sounds fascinating.
01:16:05.800 Like,
01:16:06.180 she was happy
01:16:06.660 for the lesson.
01:16:07.540 She thought it was interesting
01:16:08.340 and,
01:16:08.660 you know,
01:16:09.240 liked the reinforcement
01:16:10.380 that you shouldn't
01:16:11.100 be mean,
01:16:11.700 but also her world
01:16:13.280 is not to be mean.
01:16:14.540 It isn't to,
01:16:15.760 like,
01:16:16.240 single people out
01:16:17.600 for this characteristic
01:16:19.300 or that.
01:16:20.260 And the friend group,
01:16:21.280 and I know the same
01:16:21.840 that is true
01:16:22.240 with Michael's daughter
01:16:23.020 as well,
01:16:23.940 like,
01:16:24.680 they're lived in reality
01:16:26.280 compared to what
01:16:26.960 they're taught
01:16:27.540 about the horror
01:16:28.260 of the world
01:16:28.880 just to have nothing
01:16:29.780 in common.
01:16:30.800 Yeah.
01:16:31.620 It's true.
01:16:32.240 And I'll squeeze this in
01:16:33.080 before we take a quick break.
01:16:34.440 I mean,
01:16:34.980 look at what's happening
01:16:36.280 in San Francisco,
01:16:37.100 right,
01:16:37.340 where most of the families
01:16:38.680 who live out there
01:16:39.280 are pretty far left.
01:16:40.840 I'm sure it's not
01:16:41.840 stock full
01:16:43.120 of a bunch
01:16:43.640 of white supremacists
01:16:44.540 looking to ruin
01:16:45.240 the lives
01:16:45.700 of their black neighbors
01:16:46.720 and colleagues
01:16:47.980 and students
01:16:48.860 in the schools.
01:16:50.220 And yet,
01:16:50.580 that city
01:16:51.400 is now
01:16:52.160 well on its way
01:16:53.400 toward these
01:16:53.860 $5 million payments
01:16:55.360 in reparations
01:16:56.600 toward its black citizens.
01:16:58.400 I mean,
01:16:58.580 this is absolute madness.
01:17:00.940 They've now,
01:17:01.700 the advisory,
01:17:02.700 the reparations advisory committee
01:17:04.420 has now
01:17:05.680 unanimously
01:17:06.620 voted
01:17:07.680 and it's been accepted
01:17:09.460 by the San Francisco
01:17:10.120 Board of Supervisors
01:17:11.060 unanimously
01:17:11.640 that they should give
01:17:13.300 a one-time
01:17:13.980 $5 million payment
01:17:15.060 to the black people
01:17:16.920 of San Francisco
01:17:17.460 who meet just
01:17:18.120 a couple of easy criteria
01:17:19.980 along with these
01:17:21.400 other proposals.
01:17:22.420 That doesn't make it law yet.
01:17:23.720 At some point,
01:17:24.520 lawmakers are going to have
01:17:25.240 to draft and pass legislation,
01:17:26.440 but they're well on their way.
01:17:28.280 And the other things
01:17:29.200 that they're getting ready
01:17:30.000 to give black citizens
01:17:31.200 of San Francisco
01:17:31.920 include,
01:17:33.040 there's 100 recommendations,
01:17:34.780 the elimination
01:17:35.280 of personal debt
01:17:36.240 and tax burdens.
01:17:38.000 How does that work?
01:17:38.880 Okay,
01:17:39.080 so they don't have to pay taxes
01:17:39.860 ever again?
01:17:41.380 Guaranteed annual incomes
01:17:42.760 of at least $97,000
01:17:44.640 for 250 years.
01:17:46.640 That's,
01:17:46.920 I think,
01:17:47.080 on top of your $5 million.
01:17:49.540 And homes in San Francisco
01:17:51.080 for just $1 a family.
01:17:53.160 Yeah.
01:17:54.620 How is this going to work?
01:17:58.200 Oh my God,
01:17:58.820 it's like a banner ad.
01:18:00.260 Like,
01:18:00.420 you too can get a home
01:18:01.360 for a dollar
01:18:02.020 and it's like
01:18:03.300 $100,000
01:18:04.000 for 250 years.
01:18:05.060 It's like,
01:18:05.320 there's a scam here.
01:18:06.320 It's like,
01:18:06.520 no, no, no,
01:18:06.800 it's actually San Francisco.
01:18:08.220 It is a scam,
01:18:09.260 but it's kind of
01:18:09.880 an official scam.
01:18:10.520 Listen to how you can get it.
01:18:11.440 It's so easy.
01:18:12.380 I mean,
01:18:12.660 so you,
01:18:13.860 hold on,
01:18:16.120 you have to be 18 years
01:18:16.940 or older.
01:18:17.780 You have to have been,
01:18:18.760 you don't actually
01:18:19.280 have to be black.
01:18:20.520 You just have to be
01:18:21.140 identifying as black
01:18:22.380 or African-American
01:18:23.220 on a public document
01:18:24.420 for at least 10 years.
01:18:25.700 So,
01:18:26.440 any of these race hustlers
01:18:27.380 we've been talking about,
01:18:28.420 as long as they were
01:18:29.100 pretending for 10 years,
01:18:30.140 you're good.
01:18:31.580 Yeah.
01:18:32.320 Then you have to meet
01:18:33.280 two additional criteria,
01:18:35.300 including,
01:18:36.260 you have to have been born
01:18:37.300 or have migrated
01:18:38.620 to the city
01:18:39.080 between 1940 and 1996.
01:18:40.980 Pretty easy.
01:18:41.500 That's just an age thing.
01:18:42.800 You have to have been
01:18:44.200 incarcerated
01:18:45.500 by the failed
01:18:47.060 war on drugs
01:18:48.460 or be the direct descendant
01:18:50.060 of someone who was.
01:18:51.280 They're,
01:18:51.480 they're incentivizing
01:18:53.080 drug deals
01:18:54.560 or like trying to reward
01:18:55.720 people who've been
01:18:56.380 selling drugs.
01:18:57.420 That's a criterion
01:18:59.040 that you must meet.
01:19:00.500 It's unbelievable.
01:19:01.640 I chose the wrong path in life.
01:19:03.700 Yeah.
01:19:03.880 Descendant of someone
01:19:04.540 who was enslaved.
01:19:05.960 Okay.
01:19:06.200 That we get.
01:19:07.820 Displaced between 54 and 73
01:19:09.300 or be a descendant
01:19:10.280 of someone who was.
01:19:11.240 I don't even,
01:19:11.720 okay.
01:19:12.040 All right.
01:19:12.360 What?
01:19:13.060 Part of a marginalized group
01:19:14.100 who experienced
01:19:14.840 lending discrimination
01:19:16.140 between 37 and 68
01:19:17.580 or informally redlined communities.
01:19:19.800 Okay.
01:19:20.300 So honestly,
01:19:20.940 you can just have said
01:19:22.140 that you were black
01:19:22.640 for 10 years
01:19:23.220 and immigrated to the city
01:19:25.500 or been born in the city
01:19:26.260 between 40 and 96
01:19:27.200 and have been arrested
01:19:28.840 or incarcerated.
01:19:29.840 We haven't been incarcerated
01:19:30.700 by the war on drugs
01:19:31.500 like you sold drugs
01:19:32.640 and you,
01:19:33.660 according to these geniuses
01:19:34.800 are going to get
01:19:35.320 all of these perks.
01:19:37.820 Yes.
01:19:38.720 And this is going to create
01:19:39.700 an amazing amount
01:19:40.260 of bureaucracy
01:19:40.740 of determining
01:19:42.220 who,
01:19:43.000 you know,
01:19:43.700 meets all the,
01:19:44.720 all these criteria.
01:19:45.420 By the way,
01:19:45.820 I understand
01:19:46.560 when somebody says
01:19:47.780 you have to be
01:19:49.140 a direct descendant
01:19:49.940 of somebody oppressed
01:19:51.060 or a slave
01:19:51.600 or something like this
01:19:52.280 because we've done this
01:19:53.280 in the past
01:19:53.640 and there's times
01:19:54.200 when it makes sense
01:19:54.760 and at times
01:19:55.260 when it makes sense
01:19:55.720 with people
01:19:56.200 who actually
01:19:56.860 were themselves harmed.
01:19:58.240 So,
01:19:58.480 you know,
01:19:58.800 the governor of Germany
01:19:59.540 paying Holocaust survivors,
01:20:02.040 the governor of the United States
01:20:02.880 paying people
01:20:03.480 who were in Japanese Americans
01:20:04.600 who were interned
01:20:05.400 all makes sense.
01:20:06.200 You were harmed.
01:20:07.060 It's like,
01:20:07.440 you know,
01:20:07.900 going to court
01:20:08.540 and getting a judgment.
01:20:09.600 this is interesting
01:20:12.180 because they're telling you
01:20:12.760 who qualifies
01:20:13.340 to get the money.
01:20:14.120 It doesn't tell you
01:20:14.580 who qualifies
01:20:15.260 to pay for it.
01:20:16.660 So,
01:20:16.920 if you are,
01:20:17.940 you know,
01:20:18.580 Matt Welch's wife
01:20:20.460 who is,
01:20:22.700 I think,
01:20:23.220 maybe an American citizen now
01:20:24.200 but she's French.
01:20:24.940 Totally right.
01:20:25.460 Yes.
01:20:25.640 She's a,
01:20:26.140 but she's been
01:20:26.740 an American citizen
01:20:27.420 for how long?
01:20:27.880 Does she have to not pay
01:20:29.780 if she was in California?
01:20:30.660 You guys were California residents.
01:20:32.380 Does that,
01:20:32.940 you know,
01:20:33.080 do you get to take it
01:20:33.680 off your taxes
01:20:34.500 because you came here
01:20:36.400 in a time
01:20:37.120 for those 12 years
01:20:38.840 you've been here
01:20:39.420 you've benefited
01:20:40.500 from slavery
01:20:41.660 or the results
01:20:42.920 of slavery.
01:20:44.100 So,
01:20:44.300 how is that prorated?
01:20:45.420 I mean,
01:20:45.560 do you get a discount?
01:20:46.920 It is so,
01:20:47.840 it's such lunacy
01:20:48.860 to actually try
01:20:49.620 to determine
01:20:50.260 that there is
01:20:51.240 a historical debt.
01:20:52.180 The thing that everybody
01:20:52.940 has to remember
01:20:53.440 about this,
01:20:54.380 you know,
01:20:54.560 70% of Americans
01:20:55.920 when pulled
01:20:56.560 think reparations,
01:20:58.080 not 5 million,
01:20:59.680 not in perpetuity payments,
01:21:01.260 just reparations
01:21:01.920 in general,
01:21:02.860 70% think
01:21:03.700 are a bad idea.
01:21:05.320 The thing that people
01:21:06.140 don't really realize
01:21:06.900 and it's the fact
01:21:08.940 that Americans believe
01:21:10.340 and particularly
01:21:11.220 in the kind of
01:21:11.980 grievance world
01:21:12.800 of Americans,
01:21:13.900 Americans believe
01:21:14.680 that they are central
01:21:15.500 to everything
01:21:16.060 in the world,
01:21:16.980 right?
01:21:17.260 That used to be
01:21:17.800 a complaint
01:21:18.220 that came from the left.
01:21:19.200 Now it's a complaint
01:21:19.840 about the left
01:21:20.740 that in the sense
01:21:22.140 that every place
01:21:23.540 on earth
01:21:24.440 has benefited
01:21:25.100 from slavery.
01:21:26.780 There's no culture
01:21:27.620 in which there was
01:21:28.120 no slavery
01:21:28.520 and if you can find it,
01:21:29.880 it's very,
01:21:30.440 very difficult to find.
01:21:31.420 Native Americans,
01:21:32.360 slavery,
01:21:32.940 taking,
01:21:33.360 you know,
01:21:33.780 possession of people's land,
01:21:35.380 you know,
01:21:35.940 taking prisoners
01:21:36.600 from a tribe
01:21:37.200 enslaving them,
01:21:37.920 et cetera.
01:21:38.740 This is throughout history.
01:21:40.500 So what do you pay for
01:21:41.820 in historical grievance?
01:21:42.860 Because historical grievance
01:21:44.360 means that borders shift,
01:21:46.180 people are oppressed,
01:21:47.060 people are displaced,
01:21:48.060 and that ultimately affects,
01:21:49.740 long down the line,
01:21:51.320 the way people live,
01:21:52.560 the way people earn,
01:21:53.680 their prospects.
01:21:54.920 So imagine if something
01:21:55.820 like this went global.
01:21:57.240 I mean,
01:21:57.400 I suppose we'd all know
01:21:58.260 a lot more about history.
01:21:59.200 It'd be a good way
01:21:59.680 of creating a history program
01:22:01.100 for the world
01:22:01.640 to understand
01:22:02.860 everybody's grievance.
01:22:03.960 But paying people money,
01:22:06.360 something that happened,
01:22:07.600 you know,
01:22:08.180 150 years ago,
01:22:10.420 strikes most people
01:22:11.360 as lunacy
01:22:11.800 and it's because it is.
01:22:13.620 And also,
01:22:14.240 it's not needs-based at all.
01:22:16.240 Like,
01:22:16.740 if Oprah lived
01:22:18.040 in San Francisco,
01:22:19.520 she could get it,
01:22:20.500 I guess?
01:22:20.860 I don't like,
01:22:21.380 really?
01:22:22.060 Okay.
01:22:22.860 And then we did a story
01:22:23.840 recently on Angela Davis
01:22:25.080 who did the
01:22:26.640 Find Your Roots thing
01:22:27.460 with Henry Louis Gates
01:22:28.680 and it turned out
01:22:29.980 she's the descendant
01:22:31.540 of Mayflower people
01:22:33.060 and her white ancestors
01:22:34.580 owned slaves.
01:22:36.040 So does she pay the money
01:22:37.040 or does she get the money?
01:22:38.260 I'm like,
01:22:38.480 how are they going to see it now?
01:22:39.020 We sent her a bill
01:22:39.680 but she only has to pay half.
01:22:43.540 And let's not forget,
01:22:44.900 just to stick up
01:22:46.060 for California yet again
01:22:47.280 on this podcast,
01:22:48.940 the word reparations
01:22:50.040 is commonly understood
01:22:51.180 to refer to slavery.
01:22:54.740 Breaking news,
01:22:55.980 San Francisco
01:22:56.640 was not
01:22:57.640 the capital
01:22:58.420 of the Confederacy.
01:23:00.420 California wasn't
01:23:01.040 a slave state!
01:23:02.360 California wasn't
01:23:03.720 a slave state
01:23:05.340 historically.
01:23:06.460 And also,
01:23:06.980 if you wanted to
01:23:07.780 look at the culpability
01:23:09.340 of the state of California,
01:23:11.040 the city of San Francisco
01:23:12.060 towards targeted,
01:23:13.420 unfavored,
01:23:14.740 disfavored minorities,
01:23:16.540 pretty sure
01:23:17.560 the Chinese
01:23:18.100 are going to
01:23:18.960 get first in line
01:23:20.460 probably in that case.
01:23:21.660 Chinese and Japanese
01:23:22.480 who have been
01:23:23.080 compensated.
01:23:24.400 But there have been
01:23:24.800 a history of
01:23:26.640 exclusion acts,
01:23:28.420 overt discrimination,
01:23:29.840 Jews as well,
01:23:30.860 all over Southern California,
01:23:32.060 including where I grew up,
01:23:32.920 the Jews were not allowed
01:23:33.760 to live in my neighborhood
01:23:34.900 in the 50s.
01:23:36.600 It sounds crazy.
01:23:37.660 So are we going to have
01:23:38.440 reparations for Jews
01:23:40.080 in the 50s
01:23:40.760 in Southern California?
01:23:41.420 No, we are not.
01:23:42.640 Let's just be honest
01:23:43.660 about how that's going
01:23:44.680 to work out.
01:23:45.200 So they're doing reparations
01:23:46.660 for redlining.
01:23:47.640 They're doing the reparations
01:23:48.500 for stuff that FDR did
01:23:50.540 or that happened
01:23:51.240 under FDR.
01:23:52.020 Good luck with that
01:23:54.020 and convincing people
01:23:54.920 of it.
01:23:55.940 I'm all in favor,
01:23:57.560 really,
01:23:58.140 of governments
01:23:58.820 saying,
01:24:00.060 look,
01:24:00.240 we did specific harms
01:24:01.520 to specific communities.
01:24:03.520 We took land,
01:24:04.380 especially,
01:24:04.880 because that's really
01:24:05.420 easy to prove
01:24:06.140 in some cases.
01:24:08.380 You've got to give
01:24:09.240 that land back.
01:24:10.080 Or,
01:24:10.420 specifically to what
01:24:11.280 we were talking about
01:24:11.740 before,
01:24:12.460 the way that Native
01:24:13.280 American tribes
01:24:13.980 were screwed over
01:24:14.820 systematically over
01:24:15.720 and over again.
01:24:16.620 This is where I believe
01:24:17.980 our sense of
01:24:19.320 restorative justice,
01:24:20.960 to use a terrible phrase,
01:24:22.580 should be used.
01:24:23.600 You,
01:24:23.960 government committed a harm,
01:24:25.160 go find the harm,
01:24:26.340 measure it,
01:24:27.080 think about it,
01:24:27.600 there's someone to pay back.
01:24:28.780 But a free-floating,
01:24:30.880 like,
01:24:31.240 there was harm done
01:24:32.400 to communities,
01:24:33.400 including by the drug war.
01:24:34.280 Drug war sucks.
01:24:35.040 I've been fighting against it
01:24:35.840 for as long
01:24:36.320 as I've been smoking drugs
01:24:38.300 at age three
01:24:38.900 or whatever it was
01:24:39.580 in California.
01:24:40.560 I think it's awful.
01:24:42.360 It's explained so much.
01:24:44.120 But,
01:24:44.400 for crying out loud,
01:24:45.720 you can't do this.
01:24:46.900 You have to be
01:24:47.620 very specific with it.
01:24:49.540 These harms do exist.
01:24:52.160 Go find those.
01:24:53.400 Don't,
01:24:53.760 like,
01:24:54.420 read a Ta-Nehisi Coates
01:24:55.620 article from 15 years ago
01:24:57.440 and say,
01:24:58.120 how can we get in
01:24:59.040 on the virtue signaling
01:25:00.540 that we have
01:25:01.780 a more virtuous city
01:25:02.920 than all the actual cities
01:25:04.680 in the Confederacy,
01:25:05.860 which,
01:25:06.180 by the way,
01:25:06.560 tend to do better
01:25:07.280 right now
01:25:07.920 in terms of race relations
01:25:09.220 than San Francisco
01:25:10.280 or various
01:25:11.100 elite progressive places.
01:25:12.980 Putting aside Matt Walsh's
01:25:14.000 cry for help
01:25:15.000 in that,
01:25:15.900 Michael,
01:25:16.260 I want to tell you
01:25:18.200 that the Hoover
01:25:19.520 Institution,
01:25:20.560 which we've mentioned
01:25:21.140 a couple times
01:25:21.600 on the show
01:25:21.980 at Stanford,
01:25:23.740 which means conservative,
01:25:25.260 has said it would cost
01:25:26.320 each non-black family
01:25:27.800 in the city
01:25:28.240 at least $600,000.
01:25:30.960 So I hope
01:25:31.600 all the families
01:25:32.220 out there
01:25:32.920 who don't qualify
01:25:33.960 understand that
01:25:34.660 it's going to be
01:25:35.160 well over half a million dollars
01:25:36.440 at least to you,
01:25:37.540 not to mention
01:25:37.960 maybe you have to
01:25:39.020 give up your home
01:25:39.620 because I don't know
01:25:40.000 where they're going to
01:25:40.360 find a free home
01:25:41.360 for a dollar
01:25:41.820 for everybody.
01:25:42.380 This will never work,
01:25:44.660 but I'm not going to lie,
01:25:45.440 I'm kind of hoping
01:25:46.140 it happens.
01:25:46.880 I just kind of want to say
01:25:47.440 I'm not going to have
01:25:48.000 to pay for it.
01:25:48.740 Can't wait to see
01:25:49.180 how this works out
01:25:49.900 for everybody.
01:25:50.940 I think it's going to be
01:25:51.800 a social experiment
01:25:52.540 they'll regret
01:25:53.420 that will not spread,
01:25:54.500 but why not San Fran?
01:25:56.160 Let's start there.
01:25:57.660 Okay,
01:25:57.940 stand by,
01:25:58.500 quick break,
01:25:58.980 more with the fifth column
01:25:59.680 right after this quick break.
01:26:04.000 I've got my
01:26:04.740 St. Patrick's Day gear on
01:26:05.980 and I'm back with
01:26:06.500 Michael Moynihan
01:26:07.160 and Matt Welsh
01:26:08.000 of the fifth column.
01:26:09.780 Did I tell you?
01:26:10.500 I'm ready to represent.
01:26:12.580 I have got my little
01:26:13.500 necklaces.
01:26:15.560 Yes,
01:26:15.760 it's pretty.
01:26:16.180 You like it?
01:26:16.900 Ireland are very excited
01:26:17.880 about this.
01:26:18.600 Yeah.
01:26:21.120 You should see my kids
01:26:22.200 right now.
01:26:22.720 They're skiing.
01:26:23.680 I got them like the wraps
01:26:25.160 that go on your helmet,
01:26:26.540 which has got like
01:26:27.020 the shamrocks all over them
01:26:28.220 and they too are wearing
01:26:29.140 their gear because,
01:26:30.100 hey,
01:26:30.260 it's St. Patrick's Day
01:26:31.100 and we got to let loose.
01:26:32.660 All right.
01:26:33.460 Now,
01:26:33.860 one of the things
01:26:34.360 that's also happening this week,
01:26:35.400 you may be aware,
01:26:36.100 is the March Madness Tournament.
01:26:37.640 Are you guys in a bracket?
01:26:38.640 Did you do your brackets
01:26:39.520 for somebody?
01:26:41.380 Absolutely.
01:26:41.780 I did, Matt.
01:26:42.460 You did?
01:26:43.140 I did because
01:26:44.060 about one year out of five,
01:26:46.540 UC Santa Barbara,
01:26:47.720 my sort of alma mater
01:26:48.760 before I got kicked out of school,
01:26:50.820 makes the tournament.
01:26:51.960 So I just join whatever
01:26:53.220 work thing there is
01:26:55.200 and I pick them to win it all.
01:26:56.520 So today,
01:26:57.160 they're going to
01:26:57.900 start the march.
01:27:00.040 You're like I am.
01:27:00.800 So I,
01:27:01.660 my system is very random
01:27:03.560 and I lose
01:27:04.480 pretty much every year,
01:27:05.420 but when I nail it,
01:27:06.600 I win the whole thing.
01:27:07.380 It happened in 2018.
01:27:09.100 You could Google it.
01:27:10.040 I won the media tournament.
01:27:11.900 Technically,
01:27:12.320 Willie Geist won
01:27:13.020 because he actually entered
01:27:14.020 and I didn't,
01:27:14.940 but there was proof online
01:27:15.760 that I had picked
01:27:16.680 the best bracket
01:27:17.340 of anybody in the media tournament
01:27:18.580 because I only pick schools
01:27:20.800 that I have
01:27:21.440 like an emotional affiliation with.
01:27:23.440 Like,
01:27:23.600 like,
01:27:24.020 unfortunately,
01:27:24.560 I picked Virginia
01:27:25.180 because I used to live there
01:27:25.940 and they got crushed
01:27:26.620 in the first round.
01:27:27.180 That was disappointing.
01:27:27.820 Everyone got that wrong,
01:27:29.080 but I have Baylor
01:27:30.640 going all the way.
01:27:31.800 I think I have them winning
01:27:32.700 because I had a really sweet dog
01:27:34.840 named Bailey
01:27:35.600 who we called Baylor.
01:27:37.840 So if I nail it,
01:27:38.640 you know,
01:27:38.860 I'm,
01:27:39.400 I'm,
01:27:40.140 my bracket is very upsetting.
01:27:42.300 Well,
01:27:42.780 apparently Kamala Harris
01:27:43.580 is following the March Madness
01:27:45.520 because Howard University
01:27:48.000 was playing,
01:27:48.960 who are they playing?
01:27:49.800 Who did they lose to?
01:27:50.980 Kansas.
01:27:52.020 And,
01:27:52.520 and they got crushed
01:27:53.640 by Kansas.
01:27:54.420 It was a,
01:27:55.100 quite the beat down.
01:27:55.880 I think it was like 29 points,
01:27:57.020 28 points.
01:27:57.860 And she decided to go,
01:27:59.820 to go offer
01:28:00.640 that the Huffington Post
01:28:02.120 write-up was like
01:28:02.600 her inspirational speech
01:28:04.260 to the Howard team.
01:28:06.160 You tell me.
01:28:07.300 Here's a sample.
01:28:08.140 Oh no.
01:28:09.540 You played hard.
01:28:10.960 You played to the very last second.
01:28:13.820 You made all us Bisons
01:28:15.840 so,
01:28:16.960 so proud.
01:28:18.380 Oh no.
01:28:18.880 You hustled out there.
01:28:20.440 You are smart.
01:28:22.440 You are disciplined.
01:28:24.560 You put everything you had
01:28:25.980 into the game.
01:28:27.480 And you know,
01:28:27.960 that's what it's about,
01:28:29.060 right?
01:28:29.500 This team,
01:28:30.180 this year,
01:28:31.140 this team.
01:28:32.680 You make us so proud.
01:28:35.480 Oh my God.
01:28:37.440 Veep was a documentary.
01:28:39.160 Veep was a documentary.
01:28:40.200 That is,
01:28:40.920 she is incapable
01:28:41.980 of not being
01:28:42.860 entirely embarrassing.
01:28:44.500 She's like,
01:28:44.900 you guys,
01:28:45.700 you had the ball,
01:28:47.200 you dribbled it,
01:28:48.280 you put it in the hoop sometimes.
01:28:49.820 Sometimes you didn't,
01:28:50.820 but you tried.
01:28:51.860 And that made me so proud.
01:28:53.500 You lost by 30 points.
01:28:54.760 Even that,
01:28:55.280 you sucked.
01:28:55.880 You actually were terrible.
01:28:56.960 You were really terrible today.
01:28:58.260 She should have gone in
01:28:59.220 and just been like,
01:28:59.900 yeah.
01:29:00.560 Oh my God.
01:29:01.580 You're smart.
01:29:01.840 That's my favorite line.
01:29:03.260 You're smart.
01:29:04.600 You're smart.
01:29:05.680 You're smart.
01:29:06.340 People like you.
01:29:07.740 Yeah.
01:29:08.360 You're the basketball team
01:29:09.780 at a university.
01:29:11.800 It's what her husband says to her.
01:29:13.500 She's just repeating
01:29:14.200 her husband's comments
01:29:15.220 to her at night.
01:29:15.920 Oh yeah.
01:29:17.020 Well,
01:29:17.220 her husband's comments
01:29:18.080 are like,
01:29:18.520 you guys,
01:29:19.360 it's like the Holocaust
01:29:20.220 because that's what he was
01:29:21.300 talking about this week.
01:29:24.040 No,
01:29:24.640 she,
01:29:25.340 I have to say the thing
01:29:26.120 about Kamala Harris
01:29:26.780 is that it is something
01:29:28.580 that is indescribable.
01:29:29.900 And I think everyone
01:29:30.780 will know what this is
01:29:31.400 when somebody says,
01:29:32.160 do you want Kamala Harris
01:29:33.780 to run for president?
01:29:34.840 For instance.
01:29:35.900 And if I said no,
01:29:36.920 I couldn't really put it
01:29:38.400 in words.
01:29:38.820 Why?
01:29:39.560 Because she's just so atrocious
01:29:41.320 and it's just a feeling
01:29:42.300 that you get when you watch her
01:29:43.380 because she says nothing
01:29:44.720 so wonderfully fluidly.
01:29:46.820 She just says nothing
01:29:47.980 for minutes at a time.
01:29:49.640 It's really like ASMR.
01:29:52.600 I should tell the audience
01:29:53.760 about what happened
01:29:54.540 with the husband.
01:29:55.300 It's too long a soundbite
01:29:56.100 to play,
01:29:56.400 but basically he,
01:29:57.160 he was making remarks
01:29:58.040 and he literally did compare
01:29:59.560 the hate that led
01:30:00.940 to the Holocaust
01:30:01.980 to Americans
01:30:04.220 at school board meetings.
01:30:05.420 He said,
01:30:05.840 you can see it here too.
01:30:07.360 This hate is interconnected.
01:30:09.100 You see it in the discourse
01:30:10.080 in the country right now.
01:30:10.980 You see it in the divide.
01:30:12.000 We have just going
01:30:12.800 to school meetings.
01:30:13.660 You see that hate is out there.
01:30:15.400 We've got to step up
01:30:16.140 and speak.
01:30:16.520 No,
01:30:16.740 you don't.
01:30:17.360 And by the way,
01:30:17.880 don't confuse people's
01:30:19.120 righteous,
01:30:19.640 anger over what was done
01:30:21.600 to their children
01:30:22.320 with hate.
01:30:23.960 That's not the same thing
01:30:24.840 and it's certainly
01:30:25.260 not the same thing
01:30:25.720 as a Holocaust hate.
01:30:28.040 Matt Welch
01:30:28.900 was very angry
01:30:29.800 about the school stuff
01:30:30.860 and I have been
01:30:31.920 for a long time
01:30:32.540 calling him
01:30:33.120 the Heinrich Himmler
01:30:34.020 of Brooklyn
01:30:34.520 and I'm glad
01:30:35.560 that I have backup
01:30:36.400 from the first,
01:30:37.340 second gentleman
01:30:38.280 or whoever.
01:30:39.360 Like,
01:30:39.700 good Lord.
01:30:40.480 They tried this
01:30:41.700 with Glenn Youngkin,
01:30:43.380 remember,
01:30:43.780 when he won
01:30:44.480 an upset victory
01:30:45.940 in Virginia
01:30:46.740 for the governorship
01:30:49.160 against Terry McAuliffe,
01:30:51.020 I believe,
01:30:51.540 you know,
01:30:51.820 someone who had a history
01:30:53.540 and was better known
01:30:54.640 before that election,
01:30:56.900 which was largely fought
01:30:58.320 on the issue of schools,
01:31:00.380 whether they've been open,
01:31:01.680 whether they,
01:31:02.180 during COVID,
01:31:03.000 whether they've been
01:31:03.520 responsive to parents
01:31:04.500 in certain high-profile cases
01:31:06.280 and other things,
01:31:06.880 what they've done
01:31:07.840 to their gifted
01:31:09.060 and talented programs.
01:31:10.100 A lot of stuff
01:31:10.580 associated with that.
01:31:12.500 MSNBC,
01:31:13.560 an institution
01:31:14.340 you might be familiar with,
01:31:15.300 Megan,
01:31:15.880 and other people
01:31:16.960 were going on
01:31:18.480 about how
01:31:19.120 we're just seeing,
01:31:20.460 you know,
01:31:21.420 open,
01:31:22.360 like,
01:31:22.840 confederacy,
01:31:23.440 white supremacy,
01:31:24.400 this is racism flowering.
01:31:26.780 In Virginia,
01:31:27.980 which voted for Joe Biden,
01:31:29.280 which has voted Democrat
01:31:30.340 for basically everything
01:31:31.560 the last 10,
01:31:32.240 12 years,
01:31:33.220 suddenly turned on a dime
01:31:34.680 and became super racist
01:31:36.280 and the voters of Virginia
01:31:37.400 were like,
01:31:37.900 I don't know,
01:31:39.840 that's not what we did.
01:31:41.260 We're mad about the schools
01:31:42.680 in Fairfax
01:31:44.020 where it's not notoriously
01:31:45.740 a breeding ground
01:31:46.500 for racists
01:31:47.660 and Glenn Youngton
01:31:49.160 is one of the more
01:31:49.800 popular governors
01:31:50.560 in the country
01:31:51.440 as a result
01:31:52.380 and it was widely,
01:31:53.680 widely characterized
01:31:54.340 as this is
01:31:56.060 the awful,
01:31:57.140 bared fangs
01:31:57.860 of white supremacy
01:31:58.680 coming out to get us again.
01:32:00.060 Well,
01:32:00.560 the second gentleman
01:32:01.640 got the memo
01:32:02.920 and decided to repeat it
01:32:04.220 on the world stage.
01:32:05.060 Nicely done.
01:32:05.660 As we're on the topic
01:32:07.140 of second,
01:32:08.620 Mike Pence
01:32:09.280 is fighting
01:32:10.000 with Pete
01:32:11.400 and Chasen Buttigieg.
01:32:13.260 Mike Pence
01:32:14.180 went to the gridiron,
01:32:15.900 I think it was,
01:32:17.320 which is like
01:32:18.560 this muckety-muckety thing
01:32:19.920 with journalists
01:32:20.400 and politicians
01:32:21.140 where you get up there
01:32:22.560 and you do a roast
01:32:23.280 and he referred
01:32:24.980 to Mike Pence
01:32:26.840 or to Pete Buttigieg's
01:32:28.220 quote,
01:32:29.060 maternity leave
01:32:30.300 and said
01:32:31.240 while he was on this
01:32:32.580 quote,
01:32:33.000 maternity leave,
01:32:33.880 the country
01:32:34.700 was falling apart,
01:32:35.620 we had a supply chain crisis
01:32:36.920 and this is the only person
01:32:38.780 who's ever taken leave
01:32:39.640 and the rest of the country
01:32:40.800 got postpartum depression.
01:32:43.820 It was a joke.
01:32:45.020 Well,
01:32:45.780 Pete Buttigieg's husband
01:32:46.880 goes out on The View,
01:32:48.840 he's indignant,
01:32:50.180 he wants an apology.
01:32:51.720 Again,
01:32:52.120 he calls,
01:32:52.840 he says that,
01:32:54.120 all right,
01:32:54.920 let's listen,
01:32:55.320 here it is.
01:32:55.640 And the White House
01:32:58.060 has slammed the comments
01:32:59.200 as homophobic,
01:33:00.440 which they were,
01:33:01.160 in my view,
01:33:02.120 and inappropriate.
01:33:03.300 But Mike Pence's
01:33:04.420 former chief of staff
01:33:05.420 called the response
01:33:06.320 from the White House
01:33:07.000 faux outrage.
01:33:08.540 You know,
01:33:08.860 I think it's not woke,
01:33:10.660 you know,
01:33:11.540 to say that something
01:33:12.980 is homophobic
01:33:13.680 or misogynistic.
01:33:14.460 It doesn't make it woke,
01:33:15.780 you know,
01:33:15.920 it doesn't make you
01:33:16.340 a snowflake.
01:33:17.080 We all have an obligation
01:33:18.300 to hold people accountable
01:33:19.840 for when they say
01:33:20.620 something wrong,
01:33:21.280 especially when it's
01:33:22.080 misogynistic,
01:33:22.660 especially when it's homophobic.
01:33:24.520 And I just don't take that
01:33:25.940 when it's directed
01:33:26.760 at my family
01:33:27.460 and I don't think
01:33:27.980 anybody else would,
01:33:28.860 especially when you bring
01:33:29.740 a very small,
01:33:31.060 medically fragile child
01:33:32.020 into it.
01:33:33.620 Okay.
01:33:34.640 Guess what?
01:33:35.900 Mike Pence responded.
01:33:38.660 Mike Pence,
01:33:39.620 I mean,
01:33:39.840 it's kind of interesting
01:33:40.600 to see Mike Pence
01:33:41.360 like defend himself.
01:33:43.600 He comes out to say,
01:33:44.860 I had a lot of jokes
01:33:46.060 directed at me
01:33:46.780 at this thing.
01:33:47.760 It was a roast.
01:33:49.780 And I directed
01:33:50.740 a lot of jokes
01:33:51.340 to Republicans
01:33:52.000 and Democrats.
01:33:52.980 The only thing
01:33:53.380 I can figure
01:33:54.000 is Pete Buttigieg
01:33:54.940 not only can't do his job,
01:33:56.760 he can't take a joke.
01:33:58.200 So what,
01:33:58.720 what do you make
01:33:59.480 of the dust up?
01:34:01.820 I'm still trying
01:34:02.780 to figure out
01:34:03.160 the role of misogyny
01:34:04.120 in this particular story.
01:34:05.360 It's,
01:34:05.460 I understand.
01:34:06.960 Oh, by the way,
01:34:07.780 he wants us to speak out
01:34:08.920 whenever we see misogyny,
01:34:10.260 you know,
01:34:10.440 chasing Buttigieg.
01:34:11.380 I don't remember him
01:34:12.260 saying anything
01:34:12.660 about Don Lemon
01:34:13.560 in the prime remarks.
01:34:15.020 Nothing.
01:34:15.620 Boo.
01:34:16.040 Why don't you hold yourself
01:34:17.340 to your own standards,
01:34:18.480 sir?
01:34:19.240 Sorry,
01:34:19.520 keep going.
01:34:19.860 Oh,
01:34:20.680 yeah,
01:34:21.120 that's right.
01:34:22.220 Sorry,
01:34:22.700 Todd,
01:34:22.940 I tend to forget
01:34:24.080 about Don Lemon things.
01:34:25.080 I just flush them out
01:34:26.060 and then it's brought up
01:34:27.340 again in the Oscars.
01:34:29.020 He was made fun of
01:34:29.600 in the Oscars,
01:34:30.120 by the way,
01:34:30.980 from the woman who won,
01:34:32.840 did she win Best Actress
01:34:33.740 or something?
01:34:34.020 I didn't want.
01:34:34.700 Yes,
01:34:34.960 and if that woman
01:34:35.860 had made fun of
01:34:36.460 Tucker Carlson,
01:34:37.260 it would have been
01:34:37.660 on every newspaper
01:34:39.360 and every news feed,
01:34:40.220 but since she was making fun
01:34:41.060 of Don Lemon,
01:34:41.920 very little was said about it.
01:34:43.120 So who won
01:34:44.380 in this debate
01:34:45.020 between Chasen Buttigieg
01:34:46.600 and Mike Pence?
01:34:47.580 And is he right?
01:34:48.620 Can you,
01:34:49.080 I mean,
01:34:49.460 take a freaking joke.
01:34:52.100 America lost.
01:34:53.360 Yes.
01:34:53.640 That's what I know.
01:34:55.080 Nobody won,
01:34:55.900 but America lost.
01:34:57.300 Look,
01:34:57.760 it's a bad joke
01:34:58.560 and that's irrelevant,
01:35:00.800 but you can call out the joke,
01:35:03.240 but never tell people
01:35:04.380 to apologize for jokes.
01:35:05.600 Honestly,
01:35:06.080 I mean,
01:35:06.320 it is obviously different
01:35:07.220 if Gilbert Gottfried
01:35:07.960 says it than Mike Pence
01:35:08.980 and it would be funnier
01:35:10.360 if Gilbert Gottfried
01:35:11.180 says it,
01:35:11.560 but you can be offended
01:35:13.580 by the joke.
01:35:14.200 Absolutely fine.
01:35:15.060 I have no problem with that,
01:35:16.580 but demanding apologies
01:35:18.240 is not something
01:35:18.880 that I'm in the business
01:35:19.640 of asking for.
01:35:21.580 I miss George W. Bush.
01:35:23.220 He could take a joke.
01:35:24.200 Good God,
01:35:24.820 was he beaten up
01:35:25.480 by everybody
01:35:26.080 and he always laughed,
01:35:27.600 you know,
01:35:27.840 like to show some class,
01:35:29.520 like take a whatever.
01:35:30.640 What was W's nickname
01:35:32.660 for you, Megan?
01:35:33.520 Because he has a nickname
01:35:34.200 for everybody.
01:35:35.880 I'm trying to remember.
01:35:36.960 I think he called me Meg.
01:35:38.060 He called me Meg,
01:35:38.780 which nobody calls me
01:35:39.520 other than my husband,
01:35:40.520 Doug,
01:35:40.780 which I like.
01:35:41.240 That's kind of cute.
01:35:42.400 It made me feel closer to him.
01:35:43.640 Weird note to end on, Megan.
01:35:45.700 I will say this.
01:35:47.120 I think the reason
01:35:47.820 he gets mocked
01:35:49.140 for the,
01:35:49.680 you know,
01:35:50.040 leave is I realize
01:35:51.200 he had twins
01:35:51.800 and the whole bit,
01:35:52.420 but he took the same time
01:35:54.160 on his child
01:35:54.680 that I took for mine
01:35:55.520 and I actually grew
01:35:56.400 a human being in my body
01:35:57.580 and birthed it
01:35:58.480 and had a surgery
01:35:59.120 and Pete Buttigieg
01:36:00.560 and I had the same
01:36:01.420 maternity leave,
01:36:02.380 paternity leave,
01:36:03.080 however you want to say it.
01:36:04.300 And there are a lot of people
01:36:05.300 who kind of looked at it
01:36:06.300 like,
01:36:06.680 really?
01:36:07.300 Okay.
01:36:07.880 Anyway,
01:36:08.620 so the last word,
01:36:09.580 love talking to you guys.
01:36:10.580 We'll get Camille in
01:36:11.280 on the act the next time.
01:36:12.600 Thanks for being here.
01:36:14.140 Thanks, Megan.
01:36:15.060 Thank you, Megan.
01:36:15.740 All right, guys.
01:36:16.820 Monday on the show,
01:36:17.540 we're going to have
01:36:17.800 a close look at
01:36:18.380 all the new developments
01:36:19.160 in the Idaho College
01:36:20.320 murders case
01:36:21.020 and then I'm going to
01:36:21.820 take a little vacation.
01:36:23.160 All right,
01:36:23.460 before we go,
01:36:23.980 have a happy St. Patrick's Day
01:36:25.360 and a happy weekend.
01:36:30.160 Thanks for listening
01:36:30.860 to The Megan Kelly Show.
01:36:31.960 No BS,
01:36:32.980 no agenda
01:36:33.620 and no fear.
01:36:34.740 Thank you.