The Megyn Kelly Show - Kamala Rambles Incoherently, Corporate Media Collusion, and Fighting DEI, with Dave Rubin and Robby Starbuck

00:00:00.560 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:00:12.120 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show with just 48 days to go.

00:00:17.080 My gosh, think about that. Just 48 days to go before election day.

00:00:22.540 Vice President Kamala Harris has now given her, wait for it, second national news interview.

00:00:30.000 The courage. This time, the Democratic nominee sat down with a panel of National Association of Black Journalists members.

00:00:38.240 Remember that group? The NABJ that cross-examined Trump in an effort to extract his jugular?

00:00:45.900 Guess what? It went a little different. Went differently when Kamala Harris sat down with them.

00:00:51.220 Politico, okay, Politico acknowledging today, which has been completely in the tank for Team Harris,

00:00:57.700 acknowledging, quote, she did not break much ground or stray far from her talking points.

00:01:04.500 Maybe it's because of the pathetic display of journalism that came her way. Honestly,

00:01:10.800 I don't even know if we can blame this one on Kamala Harris. I blame it on you. I blame it on you,

00:01:16.940 Politico and other journalists I've never heard of who completely fell down on the job. You were

00:01:23.860 pathetic. Do you remember? Remember that question they asked Trump to kick off his appearance there?

00:01:31.400 Basically, why are you such a raging racist? We know you hate black people. Why are you even here?

00:01:38.040 And how did it go when Kamala Harris sat down? Here's one example, courtesy of Jaron Keith Gaynor of

00:01:46.100 the Griot. Republicans have at times weaponized you laughing in campaign ads, for example.

00:01:54.940 Why is joy important to you to insert into this election? And what do you make of Republicans

00:02:02.400 using that as a way to suggest that you're not a serious candidate?

00:02:07.900 Well, sometimes I think, and I'll say to whoever the young people are who are watching this,

00:02:12.180 there are some times when your adversaries will try and turn your strength into a weakness.

00:02:17.540 Don't you let them. Oh my God. Don't you let them. She looked at the camera for that. I find joy

00:02:22.080 in the American people. I find joy in optimism in what I see to be our future. I find joy in the

00:02:32.960 ambition of the people. I find joy in the dreams of the people. I find joy in building community.

00:02:41.460 I find joy. I find joy in building coalitions. I find joy in believing that the true measure of

00:02:49.380 the strength of a leader is not based on who you beat down, but who you lift up.

00:02:53.360 We already used that line.

00:02:55.080 And I think we should all find joy.

00:02:58.720 I find joy. I find no joy. No, I don't find any joy in the thought that that woman could be our next

00:03:06.520 president. The question was, why is joy important to you? What in the actual F? How does somebody even

00:03:19.120 pretend that that is journalism? Seven different ways that Vice President Harris finds joy. And God,

00:03:26.980 you've got to see it on YouTube, go to, go to the YouTube feed because she's looking at the

00:03:31.400 journalists. And I use that term very loosely and in quotes, giving her answer. And then,

00:03:36.160 you know, when she gives her big, her big answer, um, okay. Sometimes when your adversaries

00:03:43.380 will try to turn your strengths into a weakness, when she says, don't you let them,

00:03:48.760 she looks, she looks right into the camera, you know, because she thinks she's our momala,

00:03:54.220 thanks to Drew Barrymore. And she really thinks everything she says is profound. That's why she

00:03:58.640 says it the way she does. And when she hasn't been heavily coached, memorize this note card.

00:04:03.940 That's what we get. I find joy in everything. Again, most of the, most of the fault is on this

00:04:10.500 so-called journalist, Jaron, try harder. Jaron, you might need to go back to school to figure out

00:04:17.100 how to ask a proper question. This is unbelievable. Her joy. That's exactly the

00:04:23.360 type of substantive policy discussion. The American people need to hear in order to inform

00:04:28.040 their decision on election day, right? How is that going to inform them when they have those

00:04:32.560 kitchen table conversations about how they're going to pay their electric bill and their grocery bill

00:04:36.700 and their gasoline bill? Well, she's joyful. She, she finds joy in the ambition of people,

00:04:43.600 in the dreams of people, in building community, building coalitions, believing that the true

00:04:51.140 measure of the strength of the leaders is based not on who you beat down, but who you lift up a

00:04:54.600 line written for her by her campaign experts. We all heard it before. She keeps saying it. She likes it.

00:05:00.080 She only has one gear repeat as I was told or empty filler emptiness.

00:05:05.900 I find joy in welcoming my first guest today, and that's Dave Rubin. He's here to discuss all this

00:05:13.200 and more. You know, he was supposed to be on the show two weeks ago until they called him a Russian

00:05:17.300 stooge and was referenced in an indictment about a Russian influence campaign for some company he did

00:05:23.340 some work for on the side. Rubin has not been accused of any wrongdoing whatsoever. He just got

00:05:30.800 pulled into this thing by someone who may or may not have known she was working for Russians.

00:05:36.560 So he joins me in his first interview since that news broke.

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00:06:33.020 relief strategists for free. That's donewithdebt.com, donewithdebt.com. Dave, great to see you. He's

00:06:40.760 hosted the Rubin Report. Welcome back. Megan, it's good to see you. And I just want to put two things

00:06:46.740 out there to begin this. Number one, you're the only person I'm going to talk about this nonsensical

00:06:52.040 Russia indictment about. I'm going to do this one time with you. You can ask me anything

00:06:56.540 and then I'm moving on. And two, I find joy in sniffing glue while listening to Kamala Harris.

00:07:02.740 That's the only way I can get through it. Truly, truly, we are out of Elmer's over here. It's been

00:07:07.040 a very long day. Okay, we will get to the Russia nonsense in a bit because honestly, this is a bunch

00:07:12.800 of bullshit. So we'll just put it to bed in a bit. But let's start with the news that actually does

00:07:16.660 affect people's lives. And that is we're about to elect a moron potentially as president of the United

00:07:21.380 States. I'm deeply, deeply concerned. But let's fixate, if we can, on the so-called journalists

00:07:29.300 who are asking her questions. I referenced it. Remember, it wasn't the same panel, but remember

00:07:34.700 the same group, NABJ, and their first question to Donald Trump. Here it is.

00:07:40.920 I want to start by addressing the elephant in the room, sir. A lot of people did not think

00:07:46.360 it was appropriate for you to be here today. You have pushed false claims about some of your

00:07:52.020 rivals, from Nikki Haley to former President Barack Obama, saying that they were not born

00:07:56.660 in the United States, which is not true. You have told four Congresswomen women of color

00:08:01.160 who were American citizens to go back to where they came from. You have used words like animal

00:08:06.640 and rabbit to describe black district attorneys. You've attacked black journalists, calling them

00:08:11.900 a loser, saying the questions that they ask are, quote, stupid and racist. You've had dinner with

00:08:17.360 a white supremacist at your Mar-a-Lago resort. So my question, sir, now that you are asking black

00:08:23.500 supporters to vote for you, why should black voters trust you after you have used language like that?

00:08:32.360 Okay. So that's how they treated Donald Trump when he was there. I played you that one question

00:08:39.420 that they asked him, her, about her joy. Here's another one from Politico. Watch this.

00:08:47.580 We've seen school closures, parents worried about their kids leaving the home because of racist

00:08:53.520 conspiracy theories that I won't repeat here, but they have been repeated by leaders on the Republican

00:09:00.700 side. From your perspective, is this just a case of irredeemable racism that can't be mitigated by

00:09:07.840 any rational action? Or is this a situation in which a federal response could help this community

00:09:13.920 heal? It's a crying shame. I mean, my heart breaks for this community. When you are bestowed with a

00:09:25.720 microphone that is that big, there is a profound responsibility that comes with that,

00:09:32.720 that is an extension of what should not be lost in this moment, this concept of the public trust

00:09:39.740 to then understand what the public trust means. It means that you have been invested with trust

00:09:49.840 to be responsible in the way you use your words, much less how you conduct yourself.

00:09:54.720 And especially when you have been and then seek to be again, president of the United States of America.

00:10:05.600 I know that people are deeply troubled by what is happening to that community in Springfield,

00:10:13.660 Ohio, and it's got to stop.

00:10:17.680 Oh, there's so much in there, Dave.

00:10:19.680 Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say.

00:10:23.220 We're going to dissect it. We have plenty of time. But let me just tell you, the person asking

00:10:28.140 that question is Eugene Daniels, works for Politico. He's head of the White House Correspondents

00:10:33.800 Association. He's at the top of it. He is the same guy who accused Brian Kilmeade of racism because of

00:10:43.120 some absolute nothing that was misunderstood and then had to walk it back when, I mean, Brian was

00:10:48.120 like, what are you talking about? So he gets her in front of him. And his question is, we've seen

00:10:55.700 parents worried about their kids leaving the home because of racist conspiracy theories. I'm not going

00:10:59.860 to repeat them. We cut out the part where he specifically referenced Trump and Vance, but he

00:11:04.320 did. Trust me. From your perspective, is this just a case of irredeemable racism that can't be mitigated

00:11:10.880 by any rational action? Eugene, tighten it up, please. Is this a situation in which a federal response

00:11:16.940 could help this community heal? What the federal response is what caused the problem, Dave?

00:11:23.620 Megan, I don't like to do interviews with a pen in my hand, but you're right. There's just so much

00:11:26.900 here. I had to scribble things down as she was talking. First off, how dare she talk about the

00:11:32.080 public trust? A woman who at the debate barely 10 days ago lied about Trump's involvement in Project

00:11:38.180 2025, lied about her position on fracking, lied about Trump and a national abortion ban, lied about Trump

00:11:44.080 and IVF. The list lied about very fine people. The list goes on and on. But the thing is, when you're

00:11:50.920 critical of this quote unquote journalist and you're critical of this quote unquote presidential

00:11:55.740 candidate Kamala Harris, it's like these people are exactly perfect for what they are. There are

00:12:01.860 very few journalists left and you have this woman who does not stand for anything. So she's just a

00:12:08.860 piece in a machine to see if the machine can fool us all one more time. We were apparently fooled,

00:12:16.060 or at least I suppose 81 million people were fooled when Joe Biden was elected last time and they told us

00:12:21.040 he was perfectly fine for some reason. I, and I think you were talking about his cognitive ability

00:12:25.660 even before he was elected last time. But they just want to see how much nonsense they can put out

00:12:32.260 there, how they can launder the lies because that's exactly what they are doing. If he's concerned that

00:12:38.340 parents don't want their kids going out in urban areas, it has nothing to do with the crazy racist.

00:12:43.640 It has something to do with the fact that the Democrats, because it's all blue cities and states that

00:12:47.860 it's happening in are scaling back. The police are allowing drugs on the street, are not arresting

00:12:52.560 people, et cetera, et cetera. But they never want to look in the mirror and think, my God, maybe we

00:12:59.380 are the baddies. Maybe we are the ones who have led to some of this stuff. And then she just gets out

00:13:04.060 there and just gives, as you pointed out, repackaged, meaningless drivel. You know, there was another line

00:13:10.160 and you can stop me if you're going to show the clip, but we played it on my show this morning

00:13:13.120 where they ask her about some of the issues related to protection with her and Trump.

00:13:18.880 And she's like, well, so many people are afraid of themselves, even in Florida with the don't say

00:13:23.060 gay law. Yeah, we do have it. Stand by. All right. All right. So I'll pause on that one. Yeah.

00:13:27.860 Let's watch. Do you have full confidence in the Secret Service to protect all of you? I do.

00:13:33.100 You feel safe for you and your family? I do. But I mean, you can go back to Ohio. Not everybody has

00:13:40.240 Secret Service. And there are far too many people in our country right now who are not feeling safe.

00:13:47.980 I mean, I look at Project 2025 and I look at, you know, like the don't say gay laws coming out of

00:13:55.560 Florida. Members of the LGBTQ community don't feel safe right now. Immigrants or people with an

00:14:01.360 immigrant background don't feel safe right now. Women don't feel safe right now.

00:14:04.820 And so, yes, I feel safe. I have Secret Service protection. But that doesn't change my perspective

00:14:16.360 on the importance of fighting for the safety of everybody in our country.

00:14:23.840 Keep going.

00:14:24.560 It's such, it's such an epic drivel. I am in Florida right now. You can say gay. Watch this. Gay.

00:14:31.920 DeSantis' goons aren't showing up. Was that pretty good? That was a pretty gay gay, right?

00:14:36.700 DeSantis' goons are not bursting through the door, right? It's just nonsense. I know a lesbian in Hialeah.

00:14:42.720 She's flourishing right now. It's pure drivel. But this is what they do with everything. There's no right

00:14:48.360 that a gay person doesn't have here. Has this woman ever been to South Beach? It's the most annoyingly

00:14:53.360 gay place on the planet. But they want to keep people in perpetual fear of a man who literally

00:15:00.160 presided over a presidency where he had lowest all-time Black unemployment. He announces it at

00:15:04.740 the State of the Union and they basically boo him. They have everything backwards and these people are

00:15:11.140 not journalists. They are activists and they should be ignored and mocked and people should

00:15:16.140 watch the Megyn Kelly show. Meanwhile, I don't even know what this so-called journalist is asking her.

00:15:21.740 Is this a case of irredeemable racism that can't be mitigated by any rational action? What? Or,

00:15:29.540 okay, I'm waiting for choice B because I reject choice A in its entirety to the extent I understand

00:15:34.480 it. Choice B is, is this a situation in which a federal response could help this community heal?

00:15:39.680 What do you say? What kind of federal response do we need to the alleged racism in terms of you're

00:15:46.340 eating our cats in Springfield? Do we need, like, this is the way the press corps feels. This is,

00:15:51.960 it's so indicative of what we're dealing with in the national media and why people can't stand them.

00:15:58.420 Megan, can I tell you something that's going to really scare you right now? You mentioned at the

00:16:01.760 top of the show, there were only 48 more days to the election. It's like, no matter who wins,

00:16:05.800 do you think any of this gets better after? We are just on the slide with these lunatics.

00:16:10.400 I actually can give you the one version where things do get better, which is that if Trump wins

00:16:13.980 by a landslide, I think there's a chance for, like, a resurgence of true Americana and people

00:16:19.720 realizing we have to let go of some of this stuff. But they are going to just, no, no, no, the media

00:16:25.940 will always do its thing. But I think a certain set of sort of marginal people might be like, you

00:16:30.640 know what, maybe let's let go of some of this woke craziness and let's go forward. The media, no,

00:16:35.320 the media will be thrilled if Trump is president because it gets them ratings. I mean, that's the,

00:16:39.160 that's kind of the deal in hell that has been forged here between Trump and these people,

00:16:43.680 which is why they all used to love Trump and now they hate him, but they kind of want him back

00:16:47.400 because it's good for clicks. But it's just watching these people do these interviews. It's so,

00:16:52.620 it's so profoundly embarrassing. And even the way they, they speak to him, you know, I've interviewed

00:16:57.060 Trump, you've interviewed him multiple times. Why is it that when I interviewed Trump, I scribbled a

00:17:01.600 couple lines down and then I just asked him what I was thinking when I was sitting there,

00:17:05.440 you know, why is it that you've been able to actually confront him on important

00:17:08.940 issues and, and still get a follow-up interview with him? Cause he's willing to do that. And yet

00:17:13.800 look what they are doing with, again, a woman that I would say is just an avatar for the Democrat

00:17:18.620 party. It's not, no one's really voting for Kamala Harris. You're just voting for someone that I

00:17:23.700 suppose is reverse Trump. She does not stand for anything other than the Democrats attaining power,

00:17:29.720 or I should say retaining power. She, I love that the question, the way in by this guy,

00:17:34.800 Eugene Daniels of Politico, uh, is about the alleged racism in Springfield, as opposed to the fact that

00:17:41.480 she caused the Haitians to be there in the first place. Their policies are what let all of these

00:17:48.500 people into the country. Why isn't that the question, Eugene, to figure out whether she's got

00:17:55.080 any regrets about dumping all of these people on a small town that obviously cannot handle them.

00:18:00.920 People have died as a result. Eugene, you might want to bring that up. Instead, what we get

00:18:07.660 is this ridiculous question. And then her fake profundities, which are like fingernails on a

00:18:15.460 chalkboard, Dave, this, okay, this is, this is great. When you are bestowed with a microphone,

00:18:23.420 that is that big, that there is this concept of the public trust to then understand what the public

00:18:33.700 trust means. It means that you have been invested with trust. She, she is an empty vessel. There is

00:18:43.240 nothing there to hold onto. She will be filled by whatever top quiet behind the scenes Democrats

00:18:51.420 want her to be filled with. And the rest of us, like we do right now, will have no idea who's

00:18:57.820 actually president. Bingo. I mean, that's why I'm saying she's an avatar for this thing. What did the

00:19:03.560 Democrats need? You know, this was the obvious end of where the Democrats were going to be after the

00:19:07.540 last 10 years of insanity. When you, when you put together a coalition based on oppression and all

00:19:12.940 these competing interests and all of these things, it's not based in principle. It's based in sort of

00:19:17.620 keeping everyone kind of hating each other all the time and mostly hating the other side,

00:19:22.320 as opposed to putting forth a positive vision for the country. So you can't, Kamala Harris can't

00:19:27.900 honestly explain any of her positions because none of the positions make sense, right? She is against,

00:19:34.200 she is now for or against everything she used to be for or against. So who is Kamala Harris? Nobody knows

00:19:40.380 other than, I think it's fair to say, she is someone who basically orchestrated a coup against the

00:19:45.280 sitting president of the United States and is now just pushing forward to make sure that the

00:19:50.520 Democrats retain power. That's it. There is, she can't answer anything honestly, because I don't,

00:19:55.780 I truly don't believe she has any coherent set of views and, and the media, I mean, again, this is why

00:20:02.440 you and I are, and people like us are always focused on the media. If the media would just do an honest

00:20:07.380 job with her, as opposed to what we just saw there, you might be able to point some of that out and then

00:20:11.920 people would see it, except the media, these people know that their job is not to do that. It is just to prop

00:20:17.400 her up so we can stop the orange man.

00:20:20.760 Just get her across the finish line. The other difference between Trump's appearance before this

00:20:26.460 group and Kamala's, well, I guess this story involves Trump's appearance before the NABJ. When he went in

00:20:33.640 front of this group, he used the now infamous term black jobs. Remember this? Sot 12.

00:20:40.800 A lot of the journalists in this room are black. I will tell you that coming, coming from the border

00:20:48.240 are millions and millions of people that happen to be taking black jobs. You had the best.

00:20:54.800 What exactly is a black job, sir?

00:20:56.480 A black job is anybody that has a job. That's what it is. Anybody that has a job.

00:21:01.360 All right. First of all, you gotta love Trump. Appearing before the National Association of

00:21:05.840 Black Journalists, a lot of people in this room are black. So he makes this comment, right?

00:21:12.500 Which ultimately leads to a press meltdown. You can imagine it. We didn't do a buttered sot,

00:21:17.360 but everybody knows what it would sound like. It sounds an awful lot like this,

00:21:20.380 what Michelle Obama said at the DNC. Watch.

00:21:22.980 I want to know. I want to know. Who's going to tell him? Who's going to tell him that the job

00:21:31.620 he's currently seeking might just be one of those black jobs?

00:21:40.960 Oh, they loved it. And Joe Biden, too, thought this is a great opportunity. He said something

00:21:45.000 inappropriate. I'm going to jump on board. Let's see.

00:21:47.580 Of course. Here's what he thinks of black jobs. I love his phrase, black jobs.

00:21:56.180 Tells a lot about the man and about his character.

00:22:01.420 And then you know what happened. Joe Biden came out this past week and here's what he did.

00:22:09.340 Stop 15.

00:22:09.900 With your help, in just three and a half years, we've created over two million new black jobs for

00:22:17.460 black, black Americans and black. What?

00:22:25.740 I'm out of glue. I'm going to have to start snipping this thing.

00:22:30.720 I hate everyone.

00:22:31.640 Look, I will give them a slight, I'll try, I'll try my best right here to give them like the

00:22:38.380 slightest bit of credit. That saying black jobs in and of itself, the phrase black jobs is

00:22:43.340 obviously somewhat ridiculous, but he, his next sentence out of his mouth, he meant any jobs.

00:22:49.220 The point was that if they are, and this is just true, it's supply and demand. This is basic

00:22:53.700 economics. When a whole bunch of new people come in, if you expect them to work, they are probably

00:22:59.020 going to take jobs from certain people. That is what he was trying to say. He was not saying,

00:23:03.880 no, black people have to sell shoes and white people are allowed to do real estate. Like,

00:23:08.560 obviously not.

00:23:09.940 Jobs for black people, jobs filled by black people.

00:23:13.720 Right, right. And I guess we should not be surprised there by Biden mumbling and,

00:23:18.160 you know, stumbling through that thing. I mean, that's just one-on-one.

00:23:20.520 No meltdown.

00:23:20.960 The fact that they're even letting, yeah, yeah.

00:23:23.000 I didn't see the press melting down. I see Michelle Obama send out a tweet saying,

00:23:26.400 I condemn, I don't like it. Of course, you know, it's just the media failures are epic.

00:23:33.260 They're ubiquitous. They're everywhere. And it is essentially the equivalent of a red carpet

00:23:39.900 rolled out in front of her right to the Oval Office. That's what they hope. That's what they

00:23:45.760 intend. And they don't care how empty headed she is. She's not Trump and she's not a Republican.

00:23:52.900 I mean, I think they'd be doing this even if it weren't Trump, even if it were Nikki Haley,

00:23:58.660 they'd be doing this.

00:23:59.600 Absolutely.

00:24:00.120 And I've listened, I've listened to so many podcasts and more conservative newscasters and so on

00:24:07.680 to this day, complaining about J.D. Vance being on the ticket. If he had only selected Nikki Haley,

00:24:13.440 he wouldn't be having these problems. Trump would be running away with it now.

00:24:15.920 Now, you're wrong. Yeah, that's prediction like they did in 16 and 20. The Republican Party,

00:24:24.280 well over 95 percent will come home for Trump. Getting Republicans to the polls and getting them

00:24:32.360 motivated will not be a problem. She will motivate them. It's not a Nikki Haley wouldn't have motivated

00:24:38.300 them more. Yes, there are some independents. Nobody votes because of the vice presidential candidate.

00:24:42.660 That's really not what drives people. Maybe it gives you a teeny tiny edge, like in a state like

00:24:47.720 Pennsylvania, if you pick the hometown guy. But on the national ticket, this is a this is just a

00:24:52.040 it's a fantasy.

00:24:54.240 No, look, Megan. Yeah, just briefly, you know, the point is that the reason that they hate Trump is

00:25:00.760 not because they think he's racist and not because they think any of the things that they say about

00:25:05.600 him or anything else. The reason they really hate Trump is because he fights back and he fights back

00:25:11.080 appropriately. And he's taught a whole bunch of us to fight back as well and see some of the stuff

00:25:17.040 that maybe we didn't want to see. So it's like when John McCain was running against Barack Obama,

00:25:21.820 nobody in their right mind thought John McCain was a racist. But suddenly everyone thought he was a

00:25:25.960 racist. Or when Mitt Romney was running and he bungled that line about binders full of women,

00:25:30.820 suddenly everyone thought he hated women. Nobody thought he hated women the day before. And then Trump

00:25:35.300 came around. It was just like, I am not playing by any of those rules. So Trump taught a whole bunch of us

00:25:40.580 that. And that's not only why they want to get rid of Trump, but that's why there are all these bills.

00:25:45.080 You know, California just signed the censorship law. It's why big tech is always attacking us,

00:25:48.980 because more and more people have woken up. And I would say the silver lining to all of this is

00:25:53.840 the proof's in the pudding. Look at the numbers of shows like yours and mine and many others

00:25:57.980 that are now dwarfing NBC and ABC and everything else. I don't say that to brag as much as people are

00:26:03.720 coming around. And the question really is, what does that wounded animal of the mainstream media do

00:26:09.240 as it reaches its end conclusion, which is well-deserved? I don't know exactly the answer

00:26:14.240 to that. Well, I mean, maybe it tries to put its finger on the scale at a presidential debate.

00:26:19.880 Maybe they get so desperate that they've been in all pretense of objectivity and go out in a

00:26:24.500 presidential debate and honestly just own the fact that they're in the tank for one candidate.

00:26:29.700 The fallout from that ABC debate continues to boil up. There's no question these two were not

00:26:36.300 impartial moderators. And there's no question that they tried to help Kamala Harris and hurt Trump in

00:26:40.960 that debate. Real Clear Politics was saying that their average has gone up like maybe like just over

00:26:46.860 half a percentage point for Kamala Harris since the debate. Now, was that because she did well at the

00:26:52.660 debate in terms of memorizing her answers? Or was that because ABC helped her or both? We don't know,

00:26:57.320 but it was minuscule. Still, in a race this tight, it could potentially help. But I'm sure you've been

00:27:04.520 following this potential scandal, could be fake scandal, about the ABC News whistleblower who's got

00:27:11.980 this affidavit out claiming that ABC News coordinated with the Kamala Harris campaign prior to the debate.

00:27:19.160 The guy says he notarized this document the day before the debate, that he sent a certified copy of it

00:27:24.580 to the Speaker of the House with whom we are in touch. They have not yet commented one way or the

00:27:30.820 other. But, you know, at the Speaker of the House's office, they're going to have tons of mail to go

00:27:34.320 through. And there's a security system for that kind of mail and so on. So I mean, not yet, but not

00:27:40.320 necessarily not never. Kamala Harris has said nothing. And ABC News issued a very troubling denial that was

00:27:47.860 basically in response to all these specific charges. It was, we followed the rules of the

00:27:53.300 debate. The rules of the debate did not allow us to give questions in advance, ignored all the

00:27:58.960 specific allegations. Exactly. They agreed with Kamala Harris's team that they wouldn't bring up

00:28:03.960 Biden's mental acuity. They wouldn't bring up her tenure as attorney general in California.

00:28:08.220 They wouldn't bring up her troubling brother-in-law who was inside the DOJ settling cases,

00:28:14.740 allegedly just to dole out favors to Democrat activists on the other side, cases the DOJ could

00:28:20.100 have won, among other problematic things. And this affidavit, it could be fake. I want people to know

00:28:25.900 that. But such as it is, it alleges that this person supposedly has tapes. Now, in attempting to

00:28:33.800 debunk this story, the Daily Beast came out and said that Gateway Pundit, which is a right-wing

00:28:42.300 blog or website, that Gateway Pundit actually said, this thing looks like an obvious hoax to us.

00:28:51.300 We're not touching it. And I confess to you, when I saw that, I thought, oh, wow, that's pretty

00:28:55.520 extraordinary because Gateway, you know, they've gotten ahead of their skis on a couple of stories.

00:29:00.480 We went back and checked. What Gateway Pundit said was an obvious hoax was a report over the weekend

00:29:07.500 that this alleged whistleblower, if he exists, had been killed in a car crash. That's what Gateway

00:29:14.060 Pundit says was an obvious hoax and that they weren't going to touch. They did not say the

00:29:18.820 affidavit is an obvious hoax. And we continue to have Bill Ackman, billionaire investor, calling for

00:29:26.880 the SEC to now investigate this publicly traded company, Disney, which owns ABC, demanding Bob Iger,

00:29:33.320 the chairman of Disney, respond to these allegations. And we continue to look at our

00:29:39.020 watches to see if this person really exists when he or she is going to drop these alleged

00:29:45.720 tapes to back it up. So what do you make of the story? Well, look, I can't speak to the truthiness,

00:29:51.560 as they say, of all of this. But, you know, I read the document, I read the affidavit, and the guy

00:29:55.920 claims that he's worked at ABC for 10 years. You know, a lot of it does feel like it is legit,

00:30:00.160 but you're right. We shouldn't get ahead of ourselves on this. But let's, so if we remove

00:30:04.660 the specifics for a second, just think about what we all saw at the debate. When Kamala repeatedly

00:30:09.880 lied about some of the things that I mentioned earlier, even very fine people would be the

00:30:13.380 easiest one. If you were lying on a debate stage and you felt that people were going to fact check

00:30:18.620 you, you'd have to be a little craftier about your lies. But she knew she could just rattle off lie

00:30:24.680 after lie after lie and not be challenged. So that in and of itself would show you she kind

00:30:30.280 of was tipped off that she was not going to be challenged. It doesn't mean that someone walked

00:30:34.880 up to her from ABC and was like, Ms. Harris, we're not going to check you on any of this stuff.

00:30:39.180 But there's subtle ways that some of the messaging could come across because otherwise

00:30:43.040 you would never be able to lie the way that she lied. So in this instance, because we don't have all

00:30:49.320 of the facts, I would say that the proof is in the pudding of everything we saw. And as, and I think

00:30:54.140 objectively, anyone watching that would have seen that clearly they were on the side of Kamala Harris.

00:31:00.020 And every time Donald Trump said something, we discussed this on my show last week, Megan,

00:31:04.320 not only did they fact checking, but sometimes they weren't even correct in their fact checking.

00:31:08.520 So it was, it was fact checking. Right, right. Exactly.

00:31:12.040 Well, um, now there is the person who broke this story on X goes by the label black insurrectionist.

00:31:21.060 And we went back through his tweets because we were not familiar with this account. I'm now following

00:31:25.560 it. Um, this does not sound like some loon. This guy's posts, actually, some of them are pretty

00:31:32.220 charming. He talked about how he went back and he watched the whole little house on the prairie series

00:31:36.140 right on black insurrectionist. Love it myself. Um, anyway, he doesn't seem like, you know, some

00:31:43.580 nut job at all. And now he's actually posting really interesting stories about Kamala Harris's

00:31:49.560 tenure as a G and why that potentially would have been something she would have asked them to steer

00:31:56.340 clear of at the debate. You and I can talk about that in one minute, but I just want to stay on the

00:32:00.060 whistleblower story for a second. Somebody was asking this guy, he's not the whistleblower to make

00:32:04.740 clear. He's the one who, who broke the story and posted the affidavit of this alleged whistleblower.

00:32:11.040 But now somebody said, what else can you do? Like, you got to get, get the tapes out, get something

00:32:15.080 out. And he said, look, I've done all I can do. And then he said, I do believe there might be a

00:32:19.300 congressional investigation now. And I think he's basing that on the appearance of a representative

00:32:25.320 Dan Muser, Muser, uh, representative from Pennsylvania who appeared on Fox business.

00:32:32.900 And, uh, he's on the house small business committee, which is kind of interesting.

00:32:37.740 I guess that's why he was on Fox business, but listen to what he said.

00:32:41.240 Unfortunately, we now have a whistleblower and I'm going to tell you something, uh, Maria,

00:32:44.940 we're going to, we're going to do what we can to bring it ABC, uh, in, uh, and, and, uh, have them

00:32:50.560 answer some questions and as well as have this whistleblower and see what's going on. We, we need to

00:32:55.880 have, let's find out what the truth is. And the thing is, is we all saw it. We actually don't need a

00:33:00.280 hearing to know what we saw. Now it's getting interesting. Now we might have a hearing with

00:33:07.460 subpoena power, right? So he actually sort of, uh, reiterated what my point was, which is we all

00:33:13.000 saw something. So look, hopefully they will uncover the facts. Hopefully if we now find out that there

00:33:18.560 were memos or there were phone calls or text messages or whatever, it would be nice to have

00:33:22.920 all of that information. But as people know, when they do these congressional hearings, it's very rare

00:33:27.500 that someone ever gets fired or punished or anything else. That's not it. Yeah. We don't

00:33:33.120 care about that. I mean, I do care if somebody should be fired if this happened. I mean, the

00:33:36.440 whole news organization should close. If this happened that, that let, let's just make clear

00:33:40.120 if this affidavit actually turns out to be true, that organization should, should close. It should

00:33:46.360 shutter. No, I mean, it cannot continue existing. If the rot is that bad, if you cheated on a presidential

00:33:51.600 debate like this, you gave sample questions. That was another allegation. You agreed that you

00:33:56.860 wouldn't go there on three extremely controversial things about one candidate. You negotiated private

00:34:03.480 terms that would help her and potentially hurt the other guy without the other guy on the call

00:34:06.880 or his reps. You're effed. This is monumental in its size if true, but it could all be a troll

00:34:14.800 and made up. So that's why none of us want to really get out there on this until we hear

00:34:19.040 tapes and actually see what's happening. This is why it would be great to have a congressional

00:34:22.400 investigation, but the whole point is not to get somebody fired. It's to get the whistleblower

00:34:26.700 in with cover where he can't be fired and he can tell his story with some blanket of protection.

00:34:34.320 Sure. So of course, it's not about firing one person or something. Of course we want to uncover

00:34:38.680 the truth. And then again, hopefully, hopefully all it does is shine. I would say a brighter light

00:34:44.200 on what we all saw, because whether we get to the bottom of it or not, we all know what we saw and

00:34:50.400 what we saw was an absolute farce. And I think you had some choice language last week on the

00:34:55.900 moderators themselves. And it's like that. So we all know that. So focusing on that again and getting

00:35:01.700 people to really, really understand what's going on here. Most Americans putting aside like the most

00:35:08.140 partisan whack jobs on both sides, most of us, regardless of whether you know who you want to vote

00:35:13.140 for or not, we do want to see an honest debate. We would like to hear them actually argue these

00:35:19.080 things out. We all mostly get that the scale has been tilted one way for a while, but if it's so

00:35:25.580 absolutely blatant and that's fully brought to light, maybe that does change the equation in the

00:35:30.720 country. Who knows? I just want the audience to know, there is a principle in journalism where you

00:35:37.480 don't agree to not bring something up. The most you're supposed to assure somebody is,

00:35:43.200 you know, well, I'll take that into consideration, right? I'll take it into consideration.

00:35:48.360 Like maybe your interests don't lie in the thing. The person's like, please don't ask me about my DWI

00:35:54.180 arrest when I was, you know, 22. And you're talking to a 62 year old, you know, Senate candidate

00:35:59.860 that can happen where you're like, who gives a shit? Whatever you were, that can happen. But an

00:36:05.940 insurance at a presidential debate that you will entirely avoid, not one, not two, but three

00:36:13.420 massive problematic areas for one candidate. And the number one is the sitting president's mental

00:36:19.200 acuity that this candidate now has been accused of covering up. I mean, I'm just saying could be

00:36:23.760 bullshit, but if that's in any way true, it is a career ending agreement because in multiple careers,

00:36:31.100 because the person who made the agreement would have to be fired and never work in journalism again.

00:36:34.900 And any anchor who then did that, because you'd have to tell the anchors, you can't ask it, right?

00:36:40.060 We will not be asking about Joe Biden's mental acuity. I can't think that these two would have

00:36:44.640 had, you know, the thought to go after her brother-in-law, even though that wasn't even in

00:36:51.300 the New York times. Maybe they would have asked about her time as a G because there's a lot of

00:36:55.620 controversy about it, but for sure the president's mental acuity would have been among the possible

00:37:00.140 topics. And so you would have to tell the anchors, we're not going there and then explain why. So in

00:37:06.100 any event, this, it would be a massive cascade of firings and job losses and so on. It's one of the

00:37:10.640 reasons why it just seems so incredible because why would these journalists take such a risk? They

00:37:16.440 could just help her the old fashioned way, like what we saw with our eyes.

00:37:21.180 Well, that's what I'm saying. It was all so blatant anyway, that that makes it all the more bizarre,

00:37:26.180 but you're completely right. Look, regardless of whether you like Kamala Harris or Joe Biden or

00:37:30.860 Donald Trump or anybody, whatever they did that they now basically admit to push him out, that,

00:37:36.080 you know, it sounds like that Pelosi and Schumer and probably Obama and Kamala all got together

00:37:40.920 and said, we're going to 25th amendment you if you don't get out. It's like, why wouldn't there be

00:37:44.600 one question about what was it like for you when the president called you and said that, like,

00:37:49.480 that actually is more interesting than hearing her, you know, prattle on about being a middle class,

00:37:54.440 growing up middle class or whatever it might be. But yes, you're right. They avoided certain

00:37:58.600 topics. And then when it came to Trump, they, they went on certain topics and we all know that.

00:38:04.480 Now, ABC news is spiraling at the moment because there's been so much negative feedback as a result

00:38:11.340 of that debate. People know, I mean, fair-minded people know what they did and just how biased it

00:38:16.700 was and one sided. And so something kind of interesting happened. David Muir went on the Kelly Ripa show

00:38:22.880 on Monday morning. I don't watch that show. Don't remember him ever making headlines on that show

00:38:28.740 before or doing debate cleanup on that show. But I do think it's interesting that they put him

00:38:33.980 on there. And here's a bit of how that went. Saw 10.

00:38:39.040 I believe it was our duty to ask the issues that, that Americans care about, you know,

00:38:43.640 the economy, are we better off than we were four years ago? Immigration, what are you going to do

00:38:47.500 about the border? Why did you wait so long before you act on the border? Those, those types of

00:38:51.400 questions, reproductive rights, Afghanistan, do you bear any responsibility, a peaceful transfer

00:38:56.620 of power with the next election coming? You know, these are all really important issues,

00:39:00.640 the issues of our time really. And I always say as a moderator, you know, what the candidates decide

00:39:06.540 to do with that time, you can ask the questions, but they'll answer with whatever they choose to

00:39:11.300 answer with. That's right. And you have to be ready for whatever might come your way,

00:39:14.980 even the most unexpected of moments. As you all know, you know what I'm talking about.

00:39:20.780 And I will say this, all of the noise that you hear afterward about, you know,

00:39:25.000 which candidate won the debate, did the moderators win or lose? That's just noise.

00:39:28.980 You all know that. The most important thing to remember is that you all have the power.

00:39:34.980 Well, I see he's just playing it right down the middle, Dave. Just right. Well,

00:39:38.560 let me tell you what that was. That was clean up in aisle seven because his ratings are down

00:39:42.100 12% since the debate and far more than he's seeing on the competition on CBS and NBC.

00:39:48.740 They both fell a little this week, just as it wasn't, I guess, that busy a news week,

00:39:51.900 but for, you know, the whole assassination thing. Anyway, so, but his ratings are down. People are

00:39:57.080 leaving. They're angry. And so he's out there. This wasn't Wednesday after the debate. It wasn't

00:40:01.520 Thursday after the debate. It wasn't Friday. It was Monday because ABC news can see he's in a free

00:40:06.880 fall. Well, it's also a brilliant way of seeing how obviously they can launder the lies.

00:40:11.940 So we all know what we saw at the debate. We know he's culpable for all that. And then what do

00:40:15.600 they do? They put him on an ABC morning show, which I'm fairly certain is not under the news

00:40:21.340 division. It's under the entertainment division, but it doesn't even matter so that he can just

00:40:24.980 further the lies. He lied, right? We all saw the lies being laundered in real time on the debate.

00:40:30.320 And then he goes on a morning show to lie again even further. You know, it's just nonsense. So it's like,

00:40:35.880 dude, every time you fact check Donald Trump, you had the opportunity to do it for Kamala. So I

00:40:41.540 mentioned very fine people. The IVF one would have been another just slam dunk easy one when she

00:40:46.720 got up there and basically said he wants to stop IVF. He has a law. Why is it that I know these

00:40:52.060 things, right? Like, how is it that I knew that Donald Trump, what was it three months ago, had

00:40:56.180 this very nicely worded for him, particularly nicely worded statement on why families are important and

00:41:02.160 how he wants to help families and IVF is a way of doing that. And that there are certain challenges

00:41:06.600 that families face and blah, blah, blah. Why is it that I know that he put that up? He's completely

00:41:10.640 for IVF. Could not, like, it couldn't have been clearer. How come I knew that? But David Muir either

00:41:15.520 didn't know that or didn't choose to get in on it. So yeah, you're right. It's clean up on aisle seven.

00:41:20.120 But again, people are not buying it, which is probably reflective in the ratings.

00:41:24.580 Yeah. Kelly Ripa and David Muir are very close. She's constantly posting pictures of him on her

00:41:30.440 Instagram, her kissing him. And you know what? That's what happened on that show. She gave him a

00:41:35.660 big, wet kiss without any real questions that would bring back those 12% who just left. And let me tell

00:41:43.680 you something. None of these network evening shows can spare the losses. They're already hemorrhaging

00:41:48.260 in shadows of their former selves. So he can keep doing cleanup in aisle seven, but we know

00:41:53.880 what we saw and the nerve of him to say, Dave, that he, you know, we have to do our homework

00:41:59.720 and be expecting the unexpected, you know? And he's like, you all know what I'm referring to.

00:42:05.240 He's referring to the dogs and cats and pets comment by Trump. Yeah. Were you, you were clearly

00:42:10.200 expecting because Lindsay Davis is running around being like, I had seen him make the comments about

00:42:15.300 babies being killed on the tables. I was ready for it. You were not ready for it because you fat

00:42:21.780 checked that story when he was right and you were wrong. And then you didn't fact check her claims

00:42:29.700 about how she's not against fracking and that she made that really clear that she's not against

00:42:35.720 fracking back in 2020, which she did not. She spoke to Joe Biden's visit, not hers. These two want to

00:42:41.560 just bathe themselves in glory, pretending that they're not hemorrhaging viewers or credibility

00:42:46.520 and still rewrite the facts. In this case, the facts about what happened that night,

00:42:52.720 a Tuesday, a week ago.

00:42:54.720 You know, Megan, a lot of this stuff used to enrage me. And there's a certain amount of,

00:42:58.600 you know, righteous indignation that comes with this because we want a media that's good. But

00:43:01.820 in a weird way, it's just like, you know what, guys, keep doing it. Keep doing what you're doing.

00:43:05.880 And as I said earlier, more and more, more and more of us are seeing it. It's reflective in the

00:43:09.640 ratings. It's reflective in the alt media and everything else. And it's a damn shame because we should,

00:43:14.400 it would be wonderful. And I know you, I know you believe this as someone that was formerly in the

00:43:18.880 mainstream media. It would be great if they were doing their job. Imagine if they were doing their

00:43:22.880 job and then every morning you woke up. Remember those two weeks when Biden wouldn't get out of

00:43:26.920 office? We had a glimpse. It was just a glimpse, but it was right. It was wonderful. But wouldn't

00:43:32.780 you truly, I really mean this for, for what I do for a living. If I was waking up every morning,

00:43:38.200 day after day, and I was like, boy, there's a little less nonsense to talk about today. I can't just

00:43:42.740 go on and on about the lunacy of MSNBC and what they're doing at the debates and the crazy women

00:43:47.200 on the view. I don't know. Maybe my show wouldn't be as interesting or people, less people would

00:43:51.400 watch, but I'll find something else to do. And I would love it. I would love to see an honest

00:43:57.900 press corps. I really would. The Democrats are insane enough. And let's face it, the Republicans

00:44:02.000 are nutty themselves in some corners that we'd have plenty to talk about just to save the country

00:44:06.840 when it comes to policy. I don't need to make my show about the media. I exactly. They make me

00:44:11.980 this kind of irresponsible, quote, journalism looking at you, Politico, Eugene makes me have

00:44:19.720 to say something because this is such a dereliction. What ABC did was a dereliction. People know it.

00:44:26.260 They know they feel bad and they feel pissed off. They might not know exactly why until you

00:44:31.720 forensically deconstruct it. So it's a service to do so. But I'd love to stop talking about these

00:44:36.980 nimrods and start talking about different nimrods because there's so, so many.

00:44:42.080 There is no shortage of nimrods. I think we can all agree on that.

00:44:46.220 Okay. So that brings me to Kamala Harris and her tenure as attorney general. Very interesting that

00:44:53.920 that was a line in this affidavit. Again, may or may not be real, but it did bring up something that

00:45:01.400 people weren't really focusing on two things. Her brother-in-law's troubles at the DOJ alleged

00:45:06.460 troubles and her tenure as AG, which we've kind of all just kind of skipped past. She's given us

00:45:13.480 enough problems with her position statements when she ran for president in 19 and the stuff she's done

00:45:18.900 as part of the Biden administration. We've been focused on that almost all the media, but she had

00:45:24.060 a whole career in politics before that, including her tenure as AG. And now it's coming back to haunt

00:45:31.760 her. Um, okay. There is the case of George Gage. Now, George Gage is a very interesting story that

00:45:41.380 was profiled by the New York times back when it wanted to do honest journalism on her a long time

00:45:47.680 ago when she was running for president. Um, it's amazing. Like if we could have just had a primary,

00:45:52.040 like who would take over for Joe Biden, we would have seen the resurrection of stories like this

00:45:55.660 and people could have actually made a choice based on who's most vulnerable, who's the best for the

00:45:59.700 party in the country. Um, but that didn't happen. So we have to rely on this New York times report from

00:46:05.180 2019 and she's got her hands all over this case. It began in Texas in 1990 where a man named George

00:46:14.520 Gage married a woman named Wanda. Wanda had two kids, one of whom Marion was nine in 1993. They moved

00:46:21.760 to California from Texas. Two years later, Wanda learned Gage had had an affair, had a love child,

00:46:27.480 and that he'd been stealing money from family funds to pay for that child's support. So it's

00:46:31.180 not working out between Wanda and George. They split up. Wanda and her two kids hike it back to

00:46:37.700 Texas. Three years later in 1998, the little girl, now she would have been 12, told Wanda that Gage

00:46:45.480 had sexually abused her while they'd lived together. This is the child's allegation. Marion claimed

00:46:51.580 uh, well, this is according to the reporting at first Marion told Texas authorities where she

00:46:56.620 was living that Gage had quote inappropriately touched her, but that he had never had intercourse

00:47:01.380 with her, never tried to have penetration of any kind and never any kind of oral sex end quote.

00:47:08.060 Then she wound up telling authorities Gage had raped her. So inconsistent. It was a tumultuous time

00:47:14.640 in Marion's life. A federal appeals court would later say around the time she reported the abuse,

00:47:19.620 Marion apparently had attempted suicide on several occasions and spent a significant amount of time

00:47:24.820 hospitalized for mental illness. Texas officials reported the accusations to their counterparts in

00:47:30.380 California who promptly charged Gage with rape, sexual abuse, and lewd acts. There was no physical

00:47:37.360 evidence linking Gage to any crimes. There were no witnesses to the alleged crimes. Prosecutors in

00:47:43.620 California offered him a deal. Six years. He rejected it. I'm not a sex offender. Prosecutors sought to ensure

00:47:48.720 that Marion's medical records were not introduced at trial. Why is that? The medical records should help

00:47:57.920 a victim of a sexual abuse crime like this. Gage's trial lawyer inexplicably agreed with that. He didn't

00:48:07.000 object. Fine. Let's not enter her medical records into evidence. Even though he hadn't seen the content

00:48:13.860 of them. You guys all know because I just said it, there were inconsistencies in them about this young

00:48:19.440 woman's story. The deputy district attorney, a guy named Christopher Estes, told the court there were

00:48:26.260 no inconsistencies in the records. None. And that Marion's therapist had indicated her patient had always

00:48:33.500 been consistent about the molestation. Gage was tried. The young girl did not testify, but her account was

00:48:41.080 shared through a redacted version of a statement she had made during a preliminary hearing. The jury couldn't reach

00:48:46.740 a verdict. Prosecutors tried him again. Plea negotiations again. Offered him a three-year deal. Again, he turned it

00:48:53.220 down. Saying, I'm not pleading guilty to a crime I did not commit. During the second trial, the young woman

00:48:58.820 testified. No discussion of her medical records at all. She said he had routinely abused her. She said, the mother

00:49:06.980 said that he had physically abused her. And Gage took the stand to defend himself, denying that he had

00:49:13.620 done it. And said that these two had made up these allegations to get back at him for the affair and the

00:49:19.980 love child. Based on the testimony of Marion and Wanda, Gage was convicted by the second jury.

00:49:26.900 The records have never been made public of those medical problems. Gage's lawyers even today have

00:49:33.600 never seen them. But when the judge, the judge in the case, finally got to see them when trying to

00:49:40.580 sentence him, she vacated the conviction and gave him a new trial because she saw she'd been lied to.

00:49:47.640 I'm going to put a pin in this story right here because we have to take a break.

00:49:51.040 Stay with me because Kamala Harris is about to enter this case and it's not good. Don't go away.

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00:50:51.960 Let me pick up where I left off. When last we spoke a few minutes ago, the judge in George Gage's

00:51:02.840 case accusing him of sexually molesting and abusing his one-time stepdaughter was outraged

00:51:10.100 because she took a look at the accuser's medical records in connection with the sentencing after

00:51:17.300 George had been found guilty and for the first time realized there were all sorts of problems

00:51:21.800 with this young woman's story. She was only looking to see how long the sentence should be.

00:51:27.800 This is the first time she's getting a look at this and realizes that the deputy DA had misled her,

00:51:33.820 that there were lots of inconsistencies in here. She noted that the mother, Wanda, had told a therapist

00:51:40.600 that Marion, the daughter, was, quote, a pathological liar who lives her lies and many other things in

00:51:47.660 here that did not help Marion's accusations. So all of this, according to the Times, was known to the

00:51:54.640 deputy DA when he told the court that there were no inconsistencies. And when the trial judge found out

00:52:01.180 the truth, she was appalled. She threw out the case and ordered a new trial. The deputy DA appealed

00:52:10.120 that ruling and won. The California Court of Appeal promptly reinstated George Gage's conviction,

00:52:17.420 holding that the trial court improperly relied on evidence that had not been introduced to jurors.

00:52:22.220 Unbelievable. Because she looked at it in the context of sentencing and not in the underlying

00:52:26.380 trial because the deputy DA had said, trust me, there's nothing inconsistent. I'm not going to

00:52:30.300 introduce these. And the other guy didn't object. They said it was improper for her to consider

00:52:34.260 these in reversing the verdict. In 2015, the case reached the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the

00:52:41.760 Ninth Circuit, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. That's in San Francisco. And that's

00:52:47.520 where Kamala Harris comes in. Her prosecutors went in there and defended George Gage's conviction.

00:52:55.560 They pointed out that Mr. Gage, while forced to act as his own lawyer, he was acting pro se,

00:52:59.760 had not properly raised certain legal issues, including this one in the lower court.

00:53:05.680 The appellate judges acknowledged that and said, we're going to send this case to mediation,

00:53:10.440 which was a clear signal for Kamala Harris to dismiss this case. The Ninth Circuit,

00:53:14.380 the most liberal court in the land, doesn't like what happened here. She refused. She refused.

00:53:21.100 It was balls to the wall to keep George on his way to Leavenworth. The court ultimately had to

00:53:28.860 uphold the conviction because technically this guy acting as his own lawyer had failed to raise it.

00:53:34.300 And Mr. Gage, to this day, thanks to Kamala Harris, remains in prison on a 70-year sentence.

00:53:44.300 He's now 84 years old, partially blind, and shares a cell with seven other inmates. Now,

00:53:52.260 you tell me why that story's not everywhere in this campaign, Dave.

00:53:56.960 Yeah, Megan, I mean, you laid out the case very cleanly. The line that really got me there,

00:54:01.860 I'm going to do the newsman thing for a second, but my eyes have been a little weird lately,

00:54:05.060 that the fact that the mother called her a pathological liar who lives her lies on top of

00:54:10.040 all of the other inconsistencies, this actually shouldn't surprise anybody because I'm sure

00:54:18.020 most of your viewers remember when Kamala was actually running for president in a primary,

00:54:22.680 when she got into it with Tulsi Gabbard over people that she had put in jail as attorney general

00:54:29.140 in California for smoking pot and other crimes like that. And then Kamala herself has been on

00:54:34.460 video admitting she used to smoke pot back in college. So I think some of her inconsistencies

00:54:39.900 and her sort of inclination to just throw people in jail, I mean, this story, it probably,

00:54:45.380 you know, this is the type of thing where people get a little lost in the weeds and it's like,

00:54:48.200 we're, we're not all lawyers who can decipher every little piece of what happens in a courtroom,

00:54:52.140 but it, it, it feels like one of the types of stories that this is probably the type of thing

00:54:57.560 that she did often as an attorney general, right? That she would get a lot of these cases where

00:55:02.480 they'd be like, ah, which way do we go on this? And okay, there was this trial, that trial,

00:55:06.300 and that she, it seems that she was pretty heavy handed when it came to prosecuting people and

00:55:12.980 putting people in jail. Uh, so I, hopefully this story will get more covered coverage.

00:55:18.200 She railroaded this black defendant who was not given a fair defense into effectively a life

00:55:27.460 sentence. That's what she did when confronted with the prosecutor's dishonesty, the fact that

00:55:33.660 this man indisputably did not get a fair trial and that the only reason he wasn't getting a new

00:55:38.380 trial on appeal is because acting as his own lawyer, he failed to preserve the issue. She said,

00:55:43.800 full steam ahead, lock him up. That's her. The fact that the press ignores this and that it wasn't

00:55:52.500 raised at the national association of black journalists association to her on behalf of George

00:56:00.640 gauge is disgusting. It's yet another complete fail and malpractice by the media who were more obsessed

00:56:08.700 with how she feels joy than why she puts obviously not guilty black men in jail for life.

00:56:18.260 You know, it's so interesting because I know you and I don't care about people's skin color,

00:56:22.260 but for the people, the set of people that purport to care about it more than anything else and,

00:56:26.660 and think that racists are running the country and that are, you know, behind every bush,

00:56:30.400 you're exactly right. You'd think that the black journalist association,

00:56:34.420 or forget the skin color of the journalist. You'd think that any sort of lefty journalist would be

00:56:38.800 obsessed with this. This man is in jail right now in California. Like, does anyone want to look into

00:56:44.840 this? I apparently not. Apparently not. Maybe, maybe now. I mean, he's 84 years old, but this is just

00:56:51.320 awful. Uh, okay. Let's turn to Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia. So about a year ago, but the audience

00:56:57.440 knows this because I told them when the story broke, you and I were chatting and you said you might be

00:57:01.360 doing this sort of side gig with this organization that Lauren Chen, who'd been working for the blaze,

00:57:06.000 was putting together with some podcasters. And I said, don't do it. Did I not say don't do it?

00:57:12.680 I said, don't do it. You did say don't do it. You did, but well, let's give people a little more

00:57:18.380 detail there. It wasn't just don't do it. Basically what I told you was Lauren Chen, who I've known for

00:57:24.020 about a decade, your viewers probably know her, you know, she's in the talk space on the right side.

00:57:28.520 I remember meeting her, I don't know, maybe eight or nine years ago at an event I did in Canada.

00:57:34.180 And she was this, you know, young, cute little girl who was doing some online stuff. So I'd known

00:57:38.300 her for quite some time. She came to me and she basically said, Hey, I've got this French benefactor

00:57:43.180 who is putting together this network. It's going to be with heterodox thinkers. We're thinking about

00:57:48.300 maybe Tim Pool and Benny Johnson. And she named a couple other people. She said, we'd love for you to

00:57:52.600 be a part. You can do whatever you want. And I basically was like, well, I don't have a lot of time.

00:57:57.440 As you know, Megan, I mean, I think one of the things that I'm most proud of in all of my career

00:58:01.360 is that I've always remained, you know, since I left sort of the online, the like young Turks world

00:58:06.960 where I had other bosses and the rest of it, that I was to pat myself on the back for one second,

00:58:11.540 I was kind of a pioneer in going independent. You even said that to me years ago. And I'm very proud

00:58:16.360 of that. I'm very, very proud of that. And I helped build technology like locals to, you know,

00:58:20.620 enable other people to go independent. But I basically said to her, I was like, look, if I do it,

00:58:25.500 I don't have a lot of time. I'll do a, I'll do a very quick show four days a week about some silly,

00:58:30.020 you know, viral video kind of stuff. And, um, and I asked for what I thought was a crazy number,

00:58:35.880 a crazy amount of money. And in essence, after one or two conversations, they basically said yes.

00:58:41.420 And, and I called you the night before, this is what you're referencing. I didn't, I, I didn't like

00:58:46.560 the idea that I was doing something kind of just for money, but I was actually, I don't think there's

00:58:51.220 any, I don't have a problem with capitalism or doing things for money, but I had been so free

00:58:55.140 for so long that I was kind of struggling with it. You know, should I do it? And obviously if

00:58:59.220 you're starting a network, you know, let's say you're starting a daily wire or you're starting

00:59:03.020 blaze or whatever it might be, uh, you're going to pay a premium for, for talent, obviously to help

00:59:08.620 you build that brand. But I was struggling with the idea that I was just doing something for money.

00:59:12.700 And you basically said to me, well, then just don't do it. And, uh, I learned a lesson,

00:59:17.360 which is, uh, listen to Megan Kelly, because then a headache happened, which I had no idea

00:59:21.780 was coming. I turned into just a nightmare. So you did the work, you got the money reportedly

00:59:27.820 5 million bucks and the indictment that came down of not of Lauren Chen. She hasn't been indicted,

00:59:35.020 but of the people who started this podcast network called tenant media, uh, are allegedly a couple

00:59:41.720 of Russians who work for RT, which used to be called Russia today. It's state run media in,

00:59:46.580 in Russia. Um, those two have been indicted. And the interesting thing about those two being

00:59:51.340 indicted is as Andy McCarthy pointed out on his podcast, they're ghosts. They'll never be arrested.

00:59:58.000 It's basically just a way for the DOJ to try to embarrass the conservative podcasters who got

01:00:03.940 pulled into this, even though the indictment itself makes very clear that they had no idea

01:00:11.480 they were working for the Russians and that all of them maintained, except for one guy who says,

01:00:17.380 maybe according to the indictment, I haven't heard this person respond to it, but everybody says they

01:00:21.700 had editorial independence. No strings are being pulled by the Russians, by Lauren Chen or by anybody

01:00:25.880 else. Um, that, but basically this is the DOJ's attempt to say, everyone's a Russian stooge.

01:00:32.520 Conservatives are Russian stooges. The Russians are interfering again. Don't trust conservatives.

01:00:37.120 They're Russian stooges. Am I, am I about, do I have it about right you? Well, you do have it about

01:00:42.780 right that. Well, the funny thing to me is when this story broke, whatever it was 10 days ago,

01:00:46.760 and I read the indictment, I'm so used to reading dishonest things about me that when I was reading

01:00:51.920 it, I was like, Oh, this actually is all true. I knew Lauren for all these years. She told me I was

01:00:58.100 working with this French businessman. I'm commentator number one in the indictment for people that want to

01:01:02.440 read it. I'm the one that asked for more information. They sent me what I, what I think

01:01:07.120 now it, it says is a fake AI bio about this guy with a picture. Maybe you guys have it over there.

01:01:13.740 It looks fancy. No, but, but even that didn't, didn't, I was like not satisfied with that. So I

01:01:18.980 asked, yeah, so that's what they sent me. And I said, well, I'd like to talk to the guy. That's what

01:01:23.280 I said to Lauren. All my communications were with Lauren. And clearly the DOJ has all those

01:01:27.120 communications because everything in the indictment was true. Um, and then they, I got on a zoom call.

01:01:31.560 Lauren set me up on a zoom call with a person that I was told was her French benefactor named

01:01:36.240 Edward Gregorian. And now I don't know who I spoke to. I actually have no idea who I spoke to. I don't

01:01:41.500 know what Lauren's intentions were or anything else. Um, so look, we, as the DOJ said to me in an email,

01:01:49.140 look, you guys are the victims here. You guys got completely duped. Um, I completely stand by all of

01:01:54.800 my editorial decisions and everything else. Also, this had nothing to do with Rubin report. This was a

01:01:59.640 separate show altogether. Um, but I think more than anything else, the headache around this has been

01:02:05.040 that it's like, you, you watch the media, the way they run with these crazy things that you just

01:02:09.320 alluded to this, the way they run with it. And it's like, it's just so profoundly dishonest. And

01:02:14.340 I'm so proud of the work that I've done.

01:02:15.920 Yeah. Of course it's a chance to discredit you and Benny Johnson, um, and Tim pool. And so they're

01:02:21.980 loving that. Yes, let's do that. That's, that's thrilling. We can take out the legs of anybody.

01:02:26.960 They find a threat without actually reading the indictment makes very clear. I mean, it says it's

01:02:31.980 crystal clear that founder one and founder two, that's Lauren and her husband work together, uh,

01:02:37.120 to, they say, mask the true source of funding RT by falsely portraying, uh, to commentator one,

01:02:43.880 that's you. And two, that's Tim, that this company was sponsored by a private investor

01:02:48.340 named Edward Gregorian in truth. And in fact, this guy was a fictional person. They say, for example,

01:02:53.400 during contract negotiations, negotiations, commentator one requested that founder one

01:02:56.860 provide a profile of the article on this guy. And in response, founder one sent him a one page

01:03:02.260 profile provided to him. Um, and so on, blah, blah, falsely describing him, blah, blah, blah, blah. And

01:03:07.200 they say that they worked founder one and founder two work together to deceive commentator one

01:03:13.340 and commentator two, um, who respectively have the following YouTube following or Twitter

01:03:18.740 followers. So not even the government alleges that you knew, but now that leads me to the

01:03:23.280 tough questions that people want answered. Number one, now that you know, it was the Russian

01:03:26.840 money. Do you give it back? Well, I don't know who I would be giving it back to the Russians that

01:03:32.660 duped me. I'm not sure. I mean, I'll, I'll decide. Yeah, I'll probably, I'll probably donate some of

01:03:38.400 it. You know, I've been dealing with like just the immediacy of, you know, lawyers just cleaning up

01:03:42.760 everything with the DOJ. And as you said, I was never accused of anything or anything else. I have

01:03:46.060 an email from them saying that I'm the victim here. So we're trying to figure that out. And I'd

01:03:49.340 be happy to follow up with you on that either personally or publicly when we, when we figure

01:03:53.140 that out. Um, I don't, I don't even know what, I don't even know what the honest, you know, I did

01:03:58.160 the work. I, I did a show and I ironically, I'm quite proud of the show. We did a silly show about

01:04:02.820 viral videos where I, it was, it wasn't even political largely we did. It was like, you know,

01:04:07.480 fat girl goes into Wendy's and throws hamburger at somebody. It was nonsense. The gimmick of the show.

01:04:11.560 Well, people like that on the internet. That was, that was the show. Yeah. Um, did anybody ever

01:04:19.100 tell you what to report, what to say or what not to report and say?

01:04:23.800 No, all of my conversations with Lauren, all she kept saying was this, we want heterodox thinkers.

01:04:29.080 We want you to do whatever you want to do. I even said that to you, if you remember specifically our

01:04:33.120 call from way back when, that the only reason I was going to do it, I was like, ah, it's not going

01:04:36.560 to be a heavy lift. Cause I'm going to cover these viral, silly viral videos and then,

01:04:40.860 and do whatever I want. And that's it. Uh, just to be clear about one thing, cause it's not

01:04:44.900 quite in there, but just to clean up one thing, um, they ended the contract with me in May. So it

01:04:51.020 started around October or so someone can check the exact date, but they ended it in May clearly

01:04:56.940 because they were not, whatever it is they wanted out of me. And again, I didn't know any of this.

01:05:01.360 Clearly they were not getting it. So it's not as if I've been in contract with them the entire time.

01:05:05.020 They sent me a desist letter. And then I was just like, you know what? This was a headache. I

01:05:09.580 probably should have listened to Megan in the beginning. And that was it.

01:05:13.160 So you, you only dealt with Lauren. You didn't deal with the two people above her because

01:05:16.680 those are two Russians who are named in the indictment who they claim are trying to pull

01:05:20.860 the strings here. No, Lauren is the only person I ever spoke to except that she stepped me up on

01:05:26.160 the zoom call with this guy that again, I thought was Edward Gregorian, I think in Paris. And I just

01:05:32.200 don't know who he was. I honestly don't know. I don't even know that the government knows. Was it one of

01:05:35.740 the original two people in the indictment? I, I just have no idea, but she's the only one that

01:05:39.840 I dealt with. I have no idea what her intentions are. Did she know? I just have, I simply have no

01:05:44.060 idea. The indictment alleges she knew it alleges that she and her husband both knew that they were

01:05:49.160 telling you that it was Edward Gregorian French guy behind the company, but they were privately

01:05:53.800 messaging to each other that they wanted to get paid by the Russians, uh, for the work. So did that,

01:06:00.040 were you surprised to read that? Well, I guess, I mean, I guess I was surprised in that, you know,

01:06:07.060 to whatever extent I thought I knew her, um, you know, you think, you know, somebody, Megan, think of

01:06:12.100 all the people that, you know, that do something similar than us. And someone could call you and be

01:06:15.220 like, Oh, you know, like somebody could call you and be like, you know, I have this person who's really

01:06:18.960 a big fan of what I do and they like what you do and they've got some money and they want to figure

01:06:23.100 out how to build something and heterodox thinking and all of that stuff. I felt that I did my due

01:06:28.420 diligence, especially by talking to the guy. But as you know, that when I called you the night

01:06:31.680 before I signed it, I was still a little, just, just the idea again of doing something just for

01:06:36.380 money was still sticking with me in a little bit of a weird way. But again, I, it's just crazy to

01:06:41.340 think that I knew this girl for so long and that she was so deep in something so crazy, but I suppose

01:06:45.840 the DOJ will have more on that. Allegedly, allegedly. Yeah. Yeah. We'll find out. I mean, they're,

01:06:50.560 they're definitely claiming that Lauren and her husband knew and perpetrated a fraud on you and Tim

01:06:55.060 and the others and kept it a secret intentionally. We haven't heard her respond at all. So I assume

01:07:01.540 she's denying, she might be working with the feds. No idea. We'll have to wait to see. Have you spoken

01:07:06.300 with her at all or there, or her husband? No, my last communication with her, I believe it was May

01:07:11.380 21st. If I'm not mistaken, they sent us a letter saying they were done. You don't send the WTF text?

01:07:16.780 No, because I really, truly, this may, this may sound crazy because it was a lot of money,

01:07:21.700 but I truly, I got the email and I was just like, you know what? It was a relief. We're very busy

01:07:27.040 around here. My guys work their butts off. Again, I really enjoyed the show because it was silly and

01:07:31.840 fun. It wasn't really political. So I liked doing nonsense. We would show clips of old standup

01:07:36.420 comedians and comment on it. Actually, one of the gimmicks of the show was that I wouldn't even know

01:07:40.900 my staff would pick the videos. So I wouldn't even know the videos we were covering before. We thought

01:07:45.880 that was like a funny way of doing it live. Like I'm just watching TikTok nonsense and reacting in real

01:07:50.480 time. But I really felt it was a relief. You know, I, I obviously I've done okay here. And I was just

01:07:56.500 like, you know what? Forget that money. Let's just go ahead and do other things. And we're building

01:08:00.840 other things even as we speak. So I, no, I did not even respond to it. Just to be clear, when you say

01:08:06.040 your guys were choosing the videos, this isn't like, these aren't guys controlled by the Russians.

01:08:09.900 These are your guys. No, no, no. No, no. I mean my guys in the morning. No, no, no. My team in the

01:08:14.540 morning. Are you guys controlled by the Russians? No, my guys in the morning literally would be like,

01:08:17.900 I saw this on TikTok. It was literally like fat girl, throw his hamburger at somebody.

01:08:22.820 There you go again. The proper term is heavy set. Large, large woman, uh, goes to fast food joint

01:08:30.960 and you know, that, um, look, I just think that, um, no one's going to believe that you're a Russian

01:08:38.160 stooge other than people who hated you to begin with. So I don't feel that you've lost anything

01:08:41.780 in this. In fact, you've gained some money. What you decided to do with it is your business. But if you

01:08:45.720 want to update that, we are here for you. And, um, I, it told the audience when this broke,

01:08:51.240 I have zero doubt. You didn't know anything about this. And then I could vouch for you that you told

01:08:57.120 me that night. You thought it was, you told me it was a French or a couple, I can't remember how,

01:09:02.300 but it was French business guys behind this thing as the investors. And the reason I told you,

01:09:08.000 I didn't think you should do it was I did not trust Lauren Chen. It wasn't like you were saying,

01:09:12.440 Edward seems fake at all. You were, we're not onto that. You know, um, I, one other person,

01:09:18.760 I ask you, some people say like, if you had Googled him, you would have found out he wasn't

01:09:22.580 real, right? The indictment says Googling and he doesn't come up. What was that? How do you feel

01:09:27.820 about that? I'm 99% sure I did do some Googling before I asked for the resume and my, my feel and

01:09:34.580 not, and I guess nothing came up or whatever, but there were all sorts of people that have money that

01:09:40.100 do things so that they don't show up. You know, you could just be a private person. And then

01:09:43.480 I just don't know. Like the answer to that is I don't, I don't know. Uh, but again,

01:09:48.420 I did ask for a resume. I did ask to, to speak to the guy. And, uh, and I guess I learned a lesson

01:09:54.220 here. The next time somebody asks you to partner up Dave Rubin, what is the proper answer?

01:10:00.820 Whatever Megan Kelly says.

01:10:02.400 No, but can I just say one other thing, but I accept it. Yeah. Let me just say one other thing

01:10:08.720 on a personal note. Cause you, you just referenced that. Yes, there's of course, there's going to be

01:10:11.820 a certain set of people that will never want the truth and they're just going to use this against

01:10:15.860 me and all that stuff. Okay, fine. That's just, that's just the nature of the internet. And I'm

01:10:19.460 not here to censor those people, but I would like to say that it wasn't, you obviously gave a great

01:10:24.300 defense of me and you had a little inside knowledge, but virtually everyone in our space

01:10:29.280 that was, should have defended me or at least said, you know, whatever it did. And you really

01:10:34.900 find out who your friends are in these, in these weird moments, people who just, or even just, it's

01:10:39.180 not that everyone had to do it publicly or that everyone's a public person, but the people reach

01:10:42.360 out to you and they just check in. And I have to say like, maybe more proud than I am of building

01:10:46.740 whatever I've built professionally that I guess I've surrounded myself. And I guess there's a glaring

01:10:51.420 exception, which would be Lauren, um, with some good people. And that, that really has been the nice

01:10:55.560 part of this, which I know sounds corny or whatever, but it's the truth.

01:10:59.280 No, I know exactly what you mean. I mean, it's like, I don't know, Tim pool, he's been on the

01:11:03.600 show one time, but I never questioned that Tim pool would, would not voluntarily be a stooge for

01:11:08.920 the Russian nor you, I don't know, Benny at all. Um, but it was just absurd. And I do think that this

01:11:13.340 is a kind of a special space where people are doing something sort of brave and important.

01:11:19.520 And the first instinct should be to question these mainstream narratives about people in this lane,

01:11:25.560 because the, the left wing press was too quick to jump all over it and try to paint all of you guys

01:11:32.200 as basically willingly working for RT and hiding it. That was an obvious lie. So I think the audience

01:11:39.180 knows what's what great to have you here. I agree with your plan to forget this nonsense and move

01:11:44.260 forward with your great business and awesome show. What do I owe you? I feel like I owe you something like

01:11:50.880 absolutely. You want, all right. Well, tequila, at least next time you come over, but that's,

01:11:57.520 that goes without saying David. Fair enough. You're on. Great to see you. Good to see you, Megan.

01:12:06.340 Dave Rubin, everybody, the one and only good for him. That was such nonsense. Wasn't it? God,

01:12:10.520 that was bullshit. It's just, look, the feds aren't going anywhere with this. We all know that

01:12:14.840 they're not going to find these Russians. I don't know what's going to happen to Lauren Chen.

01:12:22.480 Nobody else is going to be indicted and they got Russia, Russia, Russia in the news for a few days.

01:12:27.740 So, okay. Okay. Up next, listen, let me tell you why my next guest is important before he gets here.

01:12:35.240 This is a very tight election. It could go either way right now. She's up. You listen to Tom Bevan

01:12:44.140 at RealClearPolitics. It's the tiniest, tiniest amount, but she's up a little even in Pennsylvania,

01:12:51.420 which is the must-win state, but it could, it could go Trump's way. You know, he's interviewing

01:12:55.380 Sean Trendy of RealClearPolitics on their show yesterday. And Sean Trendy was saying, yes, you

01:12:59.900 know, I'd give the advantage to Trump just because he's got the momentum and he, you know, he usually

01:13:03.620 underpulls, but only by a goose feather. So that's the most optimistic version right now for Trump.

01:13:09.220 So it could go either way. So I've been thinking to myself, what does that mean? If she wins,

01:13:18.060 we're going to have to fight these battles on our own. We don't, we're not going to give up on all

01:13:23.200 of our battles. Hell no. In fact, we're going to have to double down on our battles. So what,

01:13:28.040 what does that mean? It means we need really smart people coming up with smart, effective game plans

01:13:33.400 to tear down the problematic things that we see all around us. You know, the, the objection to

01:13:40.400 closing the border, that would be one thing. And we've already seen some clever solutions to that

01:13:44.220 down in Texas, for example, uh, with governor Abbott and working with governor DeSantis to ship

01:13:50.760 some of these migrants to places like Martha's Vineyard immigrants in that case, uh, illegal.

01:13:54.940 In any event, you see what I'm saying? We've got to do ends, ends around the powers that be.

01:14:00.960 If, if this election goes the wrong way. And that is where Robbie Starbuck comes in.

01:14:06.720 You might, or might not know that name. He's up next. He is not single-handedly, but

01:14:12.300 in a very important way, dissecting the pernicious DEI programs at some of our biggest and most

01:14:22.420 successful corporations, like just Robbie. And he's done it so cleverly. It's been so effective.

01:14:30.960 And he's going to tell you exactly how he's been doing it. And it's a model for a go forward basis.

01:14:37.020 I guess, frankly, no matter who wins, um, because these private companies aren't just going to take

01:14:42.080 it out. If Trump wins though, I think Trump will take DEI out of the federal government as he tried

01:14:46.420 to the last time, uh, that still leaves private industry to deal with. And that's where Robbie

01:14:51.320 comes in. He explains right after this. I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly show

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01:15:58.480 When you're bestowed with a microphone, there is this concept of public trust to then understand

01:16:05.840 what the public trust means. It means that you have been invested with trust. Deep thoughts

01:16:13.340 by Kamala Harris. Just sorry. Had to be resurrected again. OMG. Okay. Welcome back to the Megan Kelly

01:16:20.000 show. Uh, now we get to Robbie Starbuck. I'm excited to bring him to you. So many more corporations

01:16:25.400 than you know, have adopted this DEI nonsense, which is very divisive and in most cases illegal

01:16:34.400 because it documents and makes formal, uh, policy out of race based preferences, which is not okay.

01:16:43.240 Not in college admissions and not in corporate America, but now they're secretly ending DEI

01:16:50.700 corporation at a corporation after corporation, huge, huge companies like Lowe's, John Deere,

01:16:57.640 Harley Davidson, and more have all dropped their DEI practices this past summer. And one man is behind

01:17:06.160 it all. That man, Robbie Starbuck joins me now. Robbie was on with us in March on episode 741,

01:17:12.280 discussing his eyeopening documentary, the war on children, which exposes the sexualization of

01:17:17.320 children. Robbie, welcome back to the show. Bravo. Bravo, sir. Thank you for doing what you are doing.

01:17:23.600 What set you on this path and what led you to believe that you could single-handedly extract

01:17:30.920 this terrible ideology from some of the biggest corporations in the country?

01:17:35.600 Thank you for having me, Megan. And you know, I guess what's responsible is, is a couple of things.

01:17:39.520 Number one, I still have the naive belief that you can do anything you put your mind to in America.

01:17:43.820 And maybe that's, maybe that's a good thing. There's still a few of us who believe that.

01:17:47.500 Um, but secondary to that is that I'm the child of a family that lost everything to communism,

01:17:52.300 you know? And so for me, I see the path very clearly America's headed down if we don't stand

01:17:57.420 up. And if I'm being really candid, one of the great regrets of my life is that there was a long

01:18:03.680 period where I had the belief that there's people out there fighting for us, you know, that we've got

01:18:08.960 a whole party that, you know, that's their job. They're, they're out there. They're going to fix

01:18:12.620 these issues, right? Um, wrong, you know, so I've disabused myself of the idea that we're going to be

01:18:20.000 saved by a politician. And that's not to say elections are not important. This election is

01:18:24.060 critical. And I've said so a million times for a million different reasons. However,

01:18:27.880 even if we elect Trump, that is not just this, you know, fix all that's going to just fix everything

01:18:33.980 that's gone wrong in our country. The truth is America and Americans, you know, in a singular sense,

01:18:39.240 we've lost our sense of responsibility and identity and what we're supposed to be responsible for

01:18:44.660 the formation of our country. When you go really deeply into the ideology of our founders,

01:18:48.840 a lot of it was predicated on the belief that the individual American would stand up for their

01:18:53.000 own liberty. If you're unwilling to do that, you're unwilling to stand up for what you believe is

01:18:57.120 right. You're going to end up in a really, really dangerous place. And I believe that's where we're

01:19:01.060 headed. So I changed sort of my approach to life and that's that I want to be a weapon. I want to use

01:19:06.900 every resource, every God given talent that I have to make a difference and to be one of those people

01:19:12.360 that actually changes things, not just sits around and waits for somebody else to do it.

01:19:16.420 I want to help fix it. So that's where sort of the, the naive belief, I guess, is based that we

01:19:22.240 can do anything in this country. I really think we can, and we can fix this problem. It just takes,

01:19:26.460 you know, looking at things from a new approach and doing so in a way that, you know, sort of is,

01:19:31.640 uh, cohesive with, with where our country can go. And I think that requires a lot of different

01:19:37.620 sensibilities that a lot of people have. They just have to put it together.

01:19:40.720 You're, you're, you're going about it in a very clever way because you did not, your last name

01:19:47.320 is Starbucks, but you did not start with a company like Starbucks where they're very woke and kind

01:19:54.080 of unapologetically woke and annoying. You started with companies that have very large working class

01:20:02.680 bases, more, maybe more conservative bases, or at least large percentage of their customer base

01:20:09.480 would be made up of potentially red staters like Harley Davidson. And when I first saw your

01:20:16.420 reporting that Harley Davidson had gone woke, I was like, what in the, how on earth did this happen?

01:20:23.620 Um, if I'm not mistaken, you reported that a new CEO took over and decided to wokeify the joint.

01:20:30.740 And, and so how did you find that out? How did you find out that they'd gone woke?

01:20:34.620 And then tell us what you did about it. You know, so our, our stories are predicated

01:20:40.200 off of whistleblowers. That's where we always start. We've got well over 5,000 at this point,

01:20:43.580 but we're always welcoming new ones who can email us and give us the information on what's going on

01:20:47.940 at their company. And we investigate and run down what works. But as to your first point,

01:20:51.700 because it's very important, our approach is very different. I identified what has failed in

01:20:55.440 past boycotts. Uh, number one was a failure to understand that the number one chief PR response

01:21:00.820 to a boycott is, uh, let's wait for this to blow over. Secondary to that was the old media model

01:21:06.220 where they could go, okay, we're going to go to the big media outlet where the people who will care

01:21:09.880 about this watch, we're going to say, we'll double our ad spend. We'll triple our ad spend.

01:21:13.640 Do not cover the story, kill it. And that used to traditionally work, but the reality,

01:21:17.740 you know, is very different. Now there's been a paradigm shift. More people will watch one of my

01:21:21.300 videos exposing a company than watch CNN or MSNBC. Not that that's any great feat with the numbers

01:21:26.500 they're pooling, but it still means something. It's a meaningful change in the way that the media

01:21:31.380 works and the public works in terms of getting information. Right. So, um, these companies

01:21:35.940 can't pay me to stop the stories. I would never take money to do that because for me, I'm, I'm

01:21:40.600 ideological. I just, I want to stop the crazy. Right. Um, and I think the secondary part of this is

01:21:45.480 like, we understood that this happened because there was an accelerated period of change after George

01:21:51.460 Floyd, a bunch of executives were captured, captured by the idea that they didn't want to be racist.

01:21:56.280 Right. And so they're woke PR and HR people who were in many cases, recent college grads. So

01:22:01.380 pumped out by this system that's creating Marxist little activists, they come in and they're like,

01:22:06.080 this is how you can be not racist. Right. And so the executives were just like, yeah, sure. Do

01:22:10.260 anything. We don't want to be racist. And the end result is what we see today. So what's changed

01:22:15.580 though, is that we've gone through this four ish year period where they've all had to experience

01:22:20.600 the reality of what was brought upon them. Okay. And that's not just the executives, but the

01:22:24.500 underlings as well that go way down the line. And so not everybody's an activist in these companies

01:22:28.400 and they want change too. So you need to give them a reason to change. And so we thought, okay,

01:22:33.300 if they shifted the Overton window that wildly, they took a very, you know, sort of accelerated

01:22:37.600 approach. We need to do one that starts with our people because these companies know that people in

01:22:42.620 a certain segment of the population listen to me. So let's start with those people and build the

01:22:47.760 momentum in the movement from there. Because if we're able to shift the major corporations that

01:22:51.640 depend largely on conservative consumers, then we can shift to the 50, 50, you know,

01:22:55.880 sort of jump ball companies where they depend on both sides. Because if you're a public company,

01:22:59.920 you still can't afford to lose, you know, 20, 30, 40% of your customer base, let alone the majority.

01:23:05.680 And so for those companies, a similar equation sort of comes and presents itself to them. Are you going

01:23:10.740 to knowingly, you know, anger a large portion of your customer base and potentially lose them?

01:23:15.960 And at that point, if we pull out to like an eagle eye view, what we're going to see is that

01:23:19.620 the vast majority of companies have come to sanity and the crazy ones are the ones on the left still

01:23:23.680 adopting these ideologies. So that's why we focused on those companies on the right. But in the case

01:23:28.100 of like Harley, they're like any other company that we focused on. We had whistleblowers that let us

01:23:32.420 know what's going on. And then we have an amazing investigative research team. And we research like

01:23:37.460 you would not believe. Megan, we find videos that like three people have ever seen. And it's painstaking.

01:23:43.740 And I'm glad people appreciate it because the amount of hours that goes into watching these

01:23:48.900 mind numbing interviews with DEI professionals is it's really something so but we do it for the

01:23:55.840 people because we need change. All right, here's a little sample of Robbie's takedown of Harley

01:24:01.380 Davidson in July. It's not 30. Y'all, this may be the most shocking expose that I've done simply

01:24:08.860 because the brand is so out of alignment with their customers. This is Harley Davidson. Harley's

01:24:13.540 words, they are all in on diversity and inclusion. Let's take a look at what that means. I wonder how

01:24:18.280 many Harley riders are aware that Harley Davidson is a platinum founding member of the LGBT Chamber of

01:24:24.320 Commerce in Wisconsin. This is the same chamber that says on behalf of the businesses that are a part of

01:24:29.540 the Wisconsin LGBT Chamber, they opposed banning transgender sex changes for children. Harley Davidson

01:24:36.100 even hosted an LGBTQ plus boot camp at their corporate offices. And look at that sweet cake

01:24:41.380 they got them. Isn't that just so inclusive? Harley Davidson CEO. Well, it's another CEO that was placed

01:24:47.580 right around COVID. Yachen Zeitz is an unusual choice to lead Harley Davidson. He's German. He's an

01:24:53.780 outspoken climate activist. The businessman who uses his millions to change opinions on climate change.

01:24:59.480 Are you getting Harley Davidson vibes yet? Well, it worked. What happened?

01:25:07.820 Harley Davidson shifted their policy. We were able to get them. You know, at the beginning,

01:25:11.740 we thought if there was a company that was going to dig in their heels, it was going to be this one

01:25:14.600 because their CEO was the first true believer we encountered at the CEO level. He, in fact,

01:25:19.660 he founded something called the B Team with Richard Branson. And the B Team's explicit purpose

01:25:23.700 is to replace leaders in America and in major global corporations with new woke leaders who are going

01:25:29.340 to adopt a new idea of what capitalism is. Because there's also this whole area of Harley that we

01:25:35.600 exposed where the CEO explicitly wants to sort of destroy the old idea of capitalism and bring

01:25:41.140 forward a new one, which is really just like some rebranded form of Marxism where you have sort of

01:25:46.140 the mask and appearance of capitalism. But in truth, you act as a social activism organization.

01:25:51.220 So I mean, everything from A to Z with Harley was absolutely absurd. The desire by the CEO to have

01:25:57.260 them go all electric by 2030, just ludicrous. They wanted to dig in their heels and say, no,

01:26:03.460 we're going to stick the path here. But we timed it really well. We timed it before Sturgis. So that's

01:26:08.400 biggest biker event in the country, maybe the world. 90% of the riders there are Harley riders. And what

01:26:13.260 happened? It was a massive embarrassment. Our story reached out so far and wide that it was a ghost town

01:26:19.140 at the Harley tent, which is usually the busiest event there is their tent system. They've got

01:26:24.520 there. Okay. Bloomberg ends up reporting two days early before Sturgis ends. Harley packed up their

01:26:30.620 tents and left because it was such an embarrassment. And so the public embarrassment and the videos going

01:26:35.800 viral of bikers taking the emblems off their bikes. And we had all these biker influencers just

01:26:40.540 impassioned by what we had exposed. We have a little sample of one of those bikers. Let me toss to it

01:26:45.400 and then you pick it up. This guy is as woke as you can get. Okay. He's a completely DEI

01:26:58.840 executive. He has put diversity, equity and inclusion in everything he does at the company. He literally

01:27:10.100 forced all white men only into white men only diversity training. Can you imagine this guy

01:27:20.340 hates what Harley Davidson customers are. Most people I talked to said they will not buy any new

01:27:27.740 Harleys or Harley anything until this CEO is fired. Okay. And I'm one of those. I will not buy

01:27:37.020 anything with Harley Davidson on it until this guy is gone. Amazing. Okay. Keep going.

01:27:45.920 I thought you were going to play the video where they blew up a Harley. I thought that was pretty cool.

01:27:50.280 They did that twice. Actually, they blew up an actual Harley where I'm not advocating people do that

01:27:55.300 because it's kind of a waste of money, but it was definitely entertaining. You know, in the case

01:27:59.800 of this CEO, he was just such a radical and he he's really the missing piece still because we got all

01:28:04.220 the policies wiped out, but he's technically still there. And there is a large segment of dealers and

01:28:08.620 writers who are very, very upset and want him gone still. And I think there's a lot of work to that

01:28:13.240 effect. And if you look at like sort of some of the statements he made, he referred to himself as

01:28:18.380 the Taliban of sustainability. Okay. So sustainability is like the buzzword for wokeness

01:28:22.900 that they use and calling yourself the Taliban of it in a way where, you know, you're not saying

01:28:27.980 I'm not that you're actually referring to yourself in a positive way. Like that's how people see me.

01:28:32.080 That tells me, you know, functionally that you consider yourself some sort of terrorist willing

01:28:37.200 to do anything for the cause you believe in. Right. Because that's what the Taliban is. So,

01:28:41.220 you know, they can try to say, Oh, it's, you know, some careless wordsmanship,

01:28:45.100 but he did it multiple times. And I don't think it's carelessness. I actually believe that that's,

01:28:49.240 that is the case because they seem so dedicated. The people like him that are true believers

01:28:54.460 to this idea that it is their right and their duty to shove their ideology down everybody else's

01:29:00.480 throat at work. I don't accept that. I think that that that's not only wrong. I think it's absurd.

01:29:05.200 And beyond that, what you said at the very beginning of this, in many cases, illegal. One of the

01:29:09.440 cases that we're looking at right now involves a company where in hiring, you'll see the names of

01:29:14.800 people they're considering and what is right next to their names in every case, their race and their

01:29:20.160 sex. Why would that ever need to be the very first thing that you see as a hiring manager is what color

01:29:27.060 the person is when we have anti-discrimination laws on the books for a very long time. And this

01:29:31.800 is like a big, you know, civil rights fight that already occurred. You're never supposed to consider

01:29:36.680 race in hiring or firing and you shouldn't. And so I think it's important for people.

01:29:40.520 All you get is all you get is now, if you're a white male trying to seek a job out of colleges,

01:29:43.700 who went in a different direction, who went in a different direction, and then you see what

01:29:48.220 direction that was. And it was 100% not a white guy. Oh, a hundred percent. And I think it's

01:29:53.480 important people understand that when you look at this ideology, you know, it's, it's all meant to

01:29:58.240 subvert the truth. So DEI, like any other sort of Marxist term, it's meant to say something that

01:30:03.560 it doesn't actually mean, right? It means something totally different. Nothing about it means

01:30:07.480 diversity. There's nothing diverse about the exclusionary tactics used by DEI teams. Equity is a

01:30:12.640 Marxist concept that is the enemy of excellence. And then inclusion. I don't think very many

01:30:17.540 Christians or white people or Jews feel very included in the DEI policies that are at most

01:30:22.900 major corporations today. It's pretty much all catering to the radical left. And so I think for

01:30:28.060 us, the key is highlighting exactly how this is the definition of unfairness. I mean, if you look

01:30:33.820 no further than the HRC. Let me move it forward a little bit because I don't have it for that long

01:30:37.240 time. Um, I know the current effort is with black and Decker and by the time you got to them,

01:30:44.760 this movement had built up so much momentum and such a rep that I, my understanding is they caved

01:30:51.620 without you even having to do the video. Is that true? That is correct. So did Jack Daniels. So did

01:30:57.580 Lowe's and so did Ford. So we're at this, this stage now where a lot of the companies are just like,

01:31:01.980 okay, we, we give, here's the changes. Just, we don't want the video. Right.

01:31:08.540 Why do you think that is like, what is it just that, that the everything with Harley was so

01:31:12.800 effective or is there something else going on here? I think that tractor supply, John Deere and

01:31:17.620 Harley were so effective and we showed not only could we move, you know, purchasers customers,

01:31:21.840 but that we could move the market because like in the case of tractor supply, they had a loss of

01:31:26.760 almost $3 billion in market cap. John Deere, it was almost $10 billion with a B. And in Harley's

01:31:33.460 case, you know, there was this massive public outcry. And in every one of those cases, you're

01:31:37.380 talking about hundreds of millions of impressions in our campaigns. It was more effective than a

01:31:41.420 national ad campaign that the company would do and spend a lot of money on. And we spent pretty

01:31:45.620 much nothing. And all of this is self-funded or with the help of subscribers on X who are

01:31:50.300 subscribing $5 a month. So like, you know, for us, uh, when we see the numbers and see the

01:31:55.720 outcomes, it's the same thing. The executives at other companies are seeing and they're going,

01:31:58.900 okay, our choice is either to go through that for a month, this prolonged period and lose this

01:32:03.340 segment of customers who are now activated to realize their wallet is a weapon, or we can just

01:32:08.020 give into the changes. It's a much lower view count then. And as a by-product of that, some people

01:32:12.980 actually be happy with us because we did this because I think they also looked at how did the

01:32:17.460 left respond to those companies caving? Number one, the market did not punish them. In every case of

01:32:22.220 these public companies turning on wokeness, their stock actually went up the day that we announced

01:32:26.640 it. Secondary to that, the left's activism arm is not as powerful as they once thought it was.

01:32:32.040 The emperor now has no clothes. They used to be afraid of these groups like the HRC.

01:32:35.840 They're now realizing that the HRC is toothless. We have far more people and far more influence than

01:32:40.780 the HRC has ever had. I hate calling them that though. Thank God because they're the ones who give

01:32:44.780 out this score that all the companies won on just how woke and annoying they are. And you've defanged

01:32:51.140 them. I mean, they've defanged themselves with their absurd positions too, but they are defanged.

01:32:56.500 This HRC score no longer seems that important, at least not to these major corporations, some of

01:33:02.520 which we just named. Yeah, I think many of them are just trying to figure out how to get out from

01:33:06.900 under it in the quietest way possible because these scoring systems, that's how you're getting things

01:33:11.540 like children having these quote transitions funded by healthcare policies that their parents have

01:33:16.540 through work where they're providing puberty blockers and hormone treatments and God forbid,

01:33:21.220 double mastectomies. And this is something that HRC wants from employers is for them to do this

01:33:25.840 coverage. They also want them to do these events at work that are openly sexual. And here's the thing

01:33:30.800 too, for people who are kind of middle of the road and are like trying to identify where are we at with

01:33:34.680 this movement? Is it because we hate people or what? No, I'm a minority myself. I'm Latino. Aside from that,

01:33:39.980 none of this is born out of hate for gay people. This is just a reality that your sexual preferences

01:33:44.920 or orientation or proclivities don't belong in the workplace. And I don't want to fund it as a

01:33:49.660 customer. I don't want to fund anything having to do with anybody's sex life as a customer of some,

01:33:53.900 you know, tractor supply, let's say, you know, like I've got cattle and chickens. I don't want

01:33:57.720 to pay for your pride event. I don't want to pay for, you know, the trans meetup down the street.

01:34:02.120 It's not, that's not my job and it shouldn't be the company's job either. We need to get all these

01:34:05.780 divisive issues out of the workplace, out of the shopping experience. So everybody feels like they can

01:34:10.280 belong again. You go to Lowe's, you think you're buying lumber. You don't think you're paying for

01:34:14.880 somebody's sex life to change or to chop off breasts on a 13 year old. I mean, it's like this,

01:34:19.900 this stuff doesn't get disclosed and you're doing a great job of exposing it. So it sounds to me like

01:34:25.880 a lot of these CEOs are kind of relieved that you knocked on their door and gave them an excuse to get

01:34:31.120 rid of this stuff. Here's one thing I read that I thought was really interesting. I can't remember if it

01:34:36.780 was multiple companies or just one, but the reporting was that suddenly their donations

01:34:41.780 went from, Oh, we're donating to whatever LGBTQ or glad or whatever to military and pets,

01:34:49.140 military and pets, two of the causes we can all agree on no matter where we are in the spectrum of

01:34:53.860 politics. Well, I can tell you this. Um, I've been asked the question by multiple executives.

01:34:59.420 Where do you think we should be spending our money? And I said, you know, I could do the selfish

01:35:04.720 thing and say all these causes I believe in. Um, but I really truly believe that the best place for

01:35:09.440 us to go as a country, if we want a healthy country is for things to be neutral. And I said,

01:35:13.540 so pick the things everybody agrees on, like supporting our veterans, supporting people who

01:35:17.980 really need help, supporting families in need, supporting animals, you know, and supporting like,

01:35:22.460 there's this great program down the street for me where they do equine therapy for disabled kids

01:35:26.840 and stuff like that is fantastic. Nobody has a problem with it. And if they do, they're crazy. So just

01:35:31.020 like, don't worry about losing them as a customer. Right. But that has been one of the wonderful

01:35:34.920 things we've seen as these companies going from supporting these radical organizations that wanted

01:35:39.440 trans children. And now they're supporting these very unifying things that I think make us stronger

01:35:45.700 and really more cohesive. And at the end of the day, one of the important things I want to get across

01:35:49.540 here is that this all happened because of one of the biggest mistakes conservatives have ever made.

01:35:54.220 And it was embracing the idea of being a silent majority and in fact celebrating it. We should never do that

01:35:59.080 again. It allows a very loud, angry, radical group of people to control the conversation

01:36:03.340 and the direction of our country. It is on us to do the work in our own communities to speak up and

01:36:08.560 to understand that every individual can make a sizable difference. Never use the excuse that you're not

01:36:13.680 enough or you can't make a difference. Every single one of us can. Every single one of these stories is

01:36:17.740 because each individual along the chain believes they could make a difference. And that's how we're

01:36:21.840 getting these policies changed. Silent no more. That's going to have to be the motto. If, you know,

01:36:26.840 if she wins the, you have no choice, you have no choice, but even if she doesn't win,

01:36:32.420 this is a great fight worth fighting. You want to give us any hint. I hear you're working on a big

01:36:35.880 campaign right now. Like talk us through what you're working on at the moment to the extent you

01:36:39.700 can and where this goes for you. Like who's on deck, what kinds of corporations? Well, we're not going

01:36:45.780 to stop. One of the ideas, um, you know, we've sort of built our thesis around how to be successful

01:36:50.200 with this is, uh, you know, that you can never attack as a pack. You need to go one by one, any,

01:36:55.160 any animal in these corporations are animals. They're stronger in a pack, right? So never,

01:36:59.540 never go at them as a pack, go at them individually where they have to answer for what

01:37:03.520 they've done. And that's kind of our job is educate on each individual company and what they've

01:37:07.480 done and do so in a measured way where we can kind of go down the line from the ones that depend

01:37:11.660 on us to the 50 fifties to the rest. And so we're doing that one by one. I can tell you this,

01:37:17.260 there's a company coming this week that has a market cap over $150 billion that will be making

01:37:22.620 an announcement about changes to their DEI and woke policies. And they are not the only one we've

01:37:27.060 been busy on the phones with executives and we're going to continue to release a cascade

01:37:30.900 of these great news stories where companies are flipping from these crazy policies and embracing the

01:37:36.620 idea of neutrality and fairness, and really most importantly, merit again, that's what all of

01:37:42.220 this should be based off of. If you're looking to get a job or you're hiring people,

01:37:45.880 marriage should be your number one concern. And that's what we're stressing to these companies.

01:37:49.560 However, there is one special big one we're working on and I will send you information on

01:37:54.220 that privately because we would love to not only have your help, we're going to ask for the help

01:37:58.240 of all of my friends in this side of the world in media so that we can make our voices heard very

01:38:04.240 clearly with a David versus Goliath fight that I think will define what happens in corporate America

01:38:08.700 going forward. There's so many of us who would be delighted to help you with our Twitter

01:38:11.360 followings and so on. I've seen some of it just organically and I always retweet it, but

01:38:15.600 you should have us all on speed dial so that we can help you. I mean, I know a lot of very

01:38:19.360 big presences on, on X who would love to help you and listen to the listening audience. It's

01:38:25.200 Robbie starbuck.com slash D E I. If you would like to help him five bucks a month on that X account

01:38:32.160 does not sound like a lot of money toward this cause. Uh, it was such a good one, Robbie. Thank you.

01:38:36.280 Thanks for all you're doing. Sincerely appreciate it. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you

01:38:41.380 covering it. Oh, that's great. Great, great, great. This is the future. Speaking of the future,

01:38:46.800 the fellas from ruthless are here tomorrow. That's our future. We'll see you then.

01:38:53.620 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda and no fear.

01:39:06.280 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

The Megyn Kelly Show - September 18, 2024

Kamala Rambles Incoherently, Corporate Media Collusion, and Fighting DEI, with Dave Rubin and Robby Starbuck ｜ Ep. 892

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