The Megyn Kelly Show - Kardashian Narcissism, Kanye's Anti-Semitism, and Nuclear ＂Armageddon,＂ with The Fifth Column Hosts

00:00:00.540 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.980 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.360 There is a lot of news to get to today and we have the perfect team to help us cover it all.

00:00:19.720 The guys from the fifth column are here today.

00:00:22.860 Among the topics we're going to tackle, Tulsi Gabbard officially leaves the Democratic Party,

00:00:27.760 torching them on the way out, calling them an elitist cabal of warmongers and cowards

00:00:32.540 who try to divide us racially. I think the party will get the message. Oh, I'm sure.

00:00:37.980 And an MSNBC host makes a stunningly racist claim, arguing that Tua's recent concussion problem,

00:00:46.160 you know, on the Miami Dolphins, proves the NFL is racist against black people. The only problem is

00:00:52.360 Tua's not black. She's not black. Hello, you dumbass Tiffany Cross.

00:00:59.660 She's the most racist person on television. It's amazing.

00:01:03.620 Maybe she just doesn't see color. Anyway, he's not black, but according to her, he is. Oh,

00:01:11.720 and by the way, his coach isn't white either. Cannot make it up. All this plus a Pfizer executive

00:01:17.560 makes an admission that should be the final death blow to any mandatory vaccine requirements. It's

00:01:22.680 all on camera. Joining me now to cover it all, our friends from the fifth column podcast,

00:01:26.680 Michael Moynihan, a correspondent for Vice News Tonight, Matt Welsh, editor at large for Reason

00:01:32.700 Magazine. Love that. Reason. And Camille Foster of Freethink Media.

00:01:41.800 Guys, welcome back to the show. Hello, Megan. Oh, my God. I'm sorry. I wasn't planning on starting

00:01:47.240 with this more on Tiffany Cross, but it's so good. Wait, I think we have the soundbite. Do we have

00:01:53.820 the soundbite team? OK, listen. Yes, it's SOT 11. This is her railing on the mistreatment of Tua,

00:02:00.900 with which I agree. I don't think the NFL has treated Tua or a lot of these players right.

00:02:06.160 It's just one problem with her analysis. Standby. Do we have it? SOT 11.

00:02:11.400 I got to say, Mike, the optics just look bad to see all these black men crashing into each other

00:02:16.040 with a bunch of white owners, white coaches and the complete disregard of black bodies and black

00:02:20.860 life. I mean, it just represents a larger issue. This was in the context of Tua, but Tua is not

00:02:25.980 black. He's Samoan and his coach is mixed race, white. I had a white parent, a black parent. So

00:02:34.380 anyway, he's not white. I guess in Tiffany's world, that's white. But in any event, this person sees

00:02:40.500 everything, everything through a it's racist prism. What do you guys make of it?

00:02:46.280 Yeah. I mean, anyone who's like watched, I presume you guys defer to me because I actually

00:02:54.240 watched the game. And look, anyone who knows anything about the NFL is aware of the issues

00:03:02.040 around concussions and has seen players kind of sacrifice themselves to stay on the field in

00:03:07.380 circumstances that seem kind of less than safe and disconcerting. It's worth having conversations

00:03:11.980 about all of that. But this is just another quintessential, perhaps example of how you

00:03:18.140 inject race into absolutely everything and you completely discombobulate the conversation about

00:03:24.580 what actually matters here. What we should be talking about is whether or not the health and

00:03:28.140 safety protocols are at all sufficient to help keep players safe in these circumstances. We should

00:03:33.900 be talking about the fact that it's not just head injuries. JJ Watt, who's a defensive end for,

00:03:38.480 I think the Cardinals had a similar sort of drama where he had a heart issue and then went out and

00:03:43.800 played about a week later. There are plenty of things that we could be talking about with respect

00:03:48.260 to the NFL, but Tiffany Cross in so many circumstances seem to only be able to think about

00:03:53.200 one thing and one thing only in every single situation, and that is race. And here she kind of

00:03:59.260 stumbles into it in a way that makes her look absolutely ridiculous. Since the gentleman that she's

00:04:03.540 talking about does not identify as black, he identifies as Samoan. But even if he were black,

00:04:08.480 she wouldn't have a point here. There is no reason whatsoever to make this.

00:04:12.740 Well, exactly. Camille, she makes it sound like the white man who was not white, the mixed race

00:04:18.160 coach, just went out and found a bunch of black bodies and started making them bang into each

00:04:22.640 other. It's also known as sports. And by the way, not all football players are black and they're all

00:04:30.240 out there because it's a lifelong dream for, I think, every single one of them. They want to be there.

00:04:35.400 They're begging to be there and they're getting very well paid for. It doesn't mean the safety

00:04:38.840 protocols are perfect, but she makes it sound like literally like a form of slavery. It's back to the

00:04:44.140 Colin Kaepernick documentary of how this is just a modern day form of slavery.

00:04:48.260 Yeah. It makes zero sense. People, uh, who are excited about, uh, concussions and NFL rules,

00:04:55.340 um, uh, would be advised to go watch a, uh, game from the 1970s. Um, uh, back when people were getting

00:05:02.760 paralyzed on the field. I mean, it was just a brutal game. Even though I was, I saw on Twitter today,

00:05:09.580 someone showed a, uh, a clip of like Tom Brady's rookie year and it's so many decades ago at this

00:05:16.660 point, it sport than it is now the type of hits that were allowed on his white body. Does he self

00:05:24.400 identify as white as a whitey? Uh, but the kind of, the kind of hits that were allowed. And back then

00:05:32.800 there weren't as many, uh, black quarterbacks and what as many black, uh, coaches to the extent that

00:05:38.080 blackness is real. I'm sorry. Um, and, uh, and yeah, it's just a different sport and I'm not sure

00:05:43.980 what we gain by racializing the progress of rules over time. Do you, do you racialize? Like if you

00:05:50.440 ever watch the NHL and there's like a fight, cause that's the best part of NHL, you'd be like, Oh God,

00:05:55.060 look at the white bodies going out for each other. Northern European Finnish bodies.

00:06:02.120 This is the most offensive thing is that we really have to retire this idea that using the

00:06:08.180 word bodies is somehow poetic and smart. Like it's like, it makes them sound like there's some

00:06:14.480 sort of lab experiment. They're doing football players. I mean, come on. It's the other thing.

00:06:20.440 Can we also say this one thing? I don't, I mean, I I'm with both of these guys on this and the

00:06:25.680 protocols of this and you can cut down on it, but at the same time it is football. And that is what

00:06:30.020 people have chosen to do as their profession. They are paid very handsomely for it. I don't

00:06:35.300 want to see anyone get injured. I don't want to see anyone have any long-term effects like that,

00:06:39.480 you know, make them go crazy and become suicidal and all the side effects that we know about.

00:06:44.380 But, you know, it's like MMA is the same way. You have a boxing referee who calls the fight because,

00:06:49.460 you know, it's bad. You see what happens to boxers over time. You know, Jerry Cooney,

00:06:53.480 I'd be a good example. Leon Spinks. I mean, it's part of the sport and, you know, there's only so

00:07:00.020 much you can do. And so the focus on that is great, but the somehow the racializing it shows

00:07:06.180 you the obsession with this stuff in the fact that people who talk about it all the time must look

00:07:11.900 for it and find it all the time to justify their television. Even when it's not there.

00:07:16.460 Even when it's not there. I mean, honestly, like even to his name, it sounds Samoan. Like she should

00:07:22.460 have done like a modicum of research would have red flagged her that this might not be your target.

00:07:27.520 Wait, wait, another target for you someplace, Tiffany, I'm sure. But I agree with you fully

00:07:32.680 on the point about bodies, the use of bodies. We're hearing that more and more. Black bodies

00:07:38.100 must be centered in the football discussion. Is that English?

00:07:42.320 Okay. Also in the news today, Kanye West. And I'm so fascinated to talk to you guys about this

00:07:54.340 because I ended Friday's show after Tucker's first interview with him. You know, he broke

00:07:59.580 into two parts by saying, I don't understand half of what Kanye says. Like I just sit there

00:08:05.660 sort of like the dog with a cocked head. Like, I don't get it. I don't, I'm not sure if I'm too

00:08:12.000 dense or I'm just not a creative thinker the way he is. You know, I'm just linear, linear thinker,

00:08:17.240 you know, legit logics, um, and reasoning types of person. I'm smarter than I just made myself sound.

00:08:25.060 He's a creative genius. I get that. I get that. So I just sort of shrug my shoulders and say,

00:08:35.220 I guess I'm acknowledging that. Yeah. I'm too dumb to understand, you know, what he's trying

00:08:39.900 to say. And then, I mean, you know, and then we had more comments over the weekend where I was like,

00:08:45.200 am I still too dense to get it? Like, so just to, just to get the audience up to speed on what

00:08:50.880 the latest controversy is. And I'm sure you've heard it by now, but just in case, um, he's being

00:08:55.220 accused of being an anti-Semite or having made anti-Semitic comments, by the way, two headlines

00:09:00.440 on my, the first page of my outline for you guys are Kanye West, anti-Semite or in a mental breakdown,

00:09:07.660 Joe Biden, nuclear warmonger or in a mental breakdown. Okay. So back to Kanye. On Friday,

00:09:17.980 he went on Instagram and got into a dustup with Diddy, the former, the artist formerly known as

00:09:22.500 P Diddy, Puff Daddy, whatever. Uh, and he said to Diddy, Diddy to challenge him on his all, uh,

00:09:28.880 white lives matter shirt and told West to quote, stop playing these internet games. Then Kanye

00:09:33.540 responded, this ain't a game. I'ma use you as an example to show the Jewish people that told you

00:09:39.340 to call me that no one can threaten or influence me. Then he was kicked off Instagram. All right. So he

00:09:44.820 was kicked right off of Instagram for that. Then he goes back on Twitter for the first time in two

00:09:49.420 and a half years. Cause he's apparently, I don't know. I don't think he was banned. I think he just

00:09:54.240 hadn't been using it. And, uh, he, yeah, he just hasn't been using it. And he tweets out,

00:09:58.920 I'm a bit sleepy tonight, but when I wake up, I'm going death con three on, and then it all caps

00:10:08.220 Jewish people. The funny thing is I actually can't be saying my hand. I, the funny thing is I actually

00:10:17.000 can't be antisemitic because black people are actually Jew. Also, you guys have toyed with me

00:10:24.220 and tried to blackball anyone, whoever opposes your agenda. And he was probably locked out of

00:10:29.960 Twitter. So no more Insta, no more Twitter, at least for now. Um, you know, I didn't know what

00:10:36.640 to expect of his staunchest defenders. Like I wasn't exactly sure how you defend that, you know,

00:10:41.200 where people are going to go. I'll read you someone I think is an honest broker. Jason Whitlock

00:10:46.220 took a shot at it. Not sure Jason has solved the problem, but this is what he says.

00:10:50.900 Kanye West and Dave Chappelle. Is there a pattern? The industry wants both of them canceled.

00:10:56.860 So far he's right. Black rappers and comedians are free to denigrate black people and white men

00:11:02.440 a million different ways, but there's a line they better not cross and everybody knows it.

00:11:07.820 And I actually did think when he wrote that, you know, and women too, right? You can say whatever

00:11:11.920 that bitches and hoes and whatever they want to say about women is fine. But like, he's trying to

00:11:16.700 make a point when you, when you bring Jewish people into it, it's a different story.

00:11:19.900 All right. I'm feeling uncomfortable. Then he added, you can't question black entertainers

00:11:27.140 unhealthy relationship with non-religious Jewish power brokers in Hollywood. Is that clear enough

00:11:33.760 for you? And again, I'm like, I don't know. What do you guys think? There's nothing better than

00:11:41.900 coming at somebody who is accused of making an antisemitic comment with one of your own.

00:11:46.380 Yeah. That's actually what that is. Yeah. I mean, that is demented. I mean, both of them are

00:11:53.200 demented. I think that, you know, Kanye is obviously, and we've all been talking about this

00:11:58.020 quite a bit. And Camille is a big booster of Kanye as a musician. I would say as a thinker,

00:12:04.700 uh, cause all of us talked about the general incoherence of the Tucker, uh, interview with

00:12:10.300 like moments of lucidity, but they're also just like, Oh, okay. That's just a normal comment that

00:12:15.060 he made, uh, on the Jewish thing. I mean, this is Jewish question. Yeah. So no, this is like,

00:12:21.800 this is definitely antisemitic. I have to say, um, when you're talking about Jewish power,

00:12:27.640 as if some uniform kind of, uh, maybe a protocol of an elder of Zion that actually makes these

00:12:34.180 things. I mean, it is a, it is a classically antisemitic trope that Hollywood is controlled

00:12:38.420 by Jews. Not that there's disproportionate numbers of Jewish people in Hollywood, that

00:12:42.860 it's controlled, which is a different kind of idea in that they are coming after me or

00:12:48.820 us through this cutout of pity, P. Diddy, who's who, or whatever it's called. Diddy, sorry.

00:12:54.620 Um, and he is like kind of the Jews of the puppet master of it's, it's so bizarre and controlling.

00:13:01.320 It's like, well, you can't actually say anything about Jewish power. It's like, well, you can say

00:13:05.980 things about individual people who are Jewish. I don't believe that their Jewishness has any,

00:13:10.760 uh, bearing on what they're doing. I don't think this is part of some, you know, Jewish

00:13:15.120 conspiracy is demented, uh, bonkers and wrong. And I think people who actually, um, go to this

00:13:21.380 point, what they're doing is they're saying, I mean, I saw the Candace Owens said something

00:13:25.380 similar. They're taking a line, which is understandable in the broadest sense about

00:13:30.240 identity politics. We can't talk about this. We can talk about that. I get that instinct,

00:13:35.000 but here it's not applicable because why it's not applicable is you're talking about a group

00:13:40.440 and assigning a sinister agenda to a group. That is insane. If you said, you know, white people are

00:13:47.260 trying to do X or Y, we call that out on the, on the fifth column. And I think that you hear it on

00:13:52.160 this show too. Is it, if you say Jews are doing this also bad, um, but probably worse because of

00:13:59.260 a very, very dark history of people making those comments about, about Jewish control as a minority,

00:14:05.700 like the minority Jews are controlling the majority. It's a really dark, uh, dark, uh, argument to make.

00:14:11.000 And it's also, and I know that you, I don't know, I don't know how to say defended, but offered

00:14:15.060 another piece to the story of, um, of central park, Karen, uh, Amy Cooper, right? I think that

00:14:20.920 was her name, right? Um, you, well, not the central park, Karen part, but yes, Amy Cooper.

00:14:25.600 Yeah, no, sorry. That's how people know her. I know it's, I feel bad for the people call her

00:14:29.000 that, but that's, that's how people know her. She had that confrontation with the angry bird

00:14:32.220 watcher who got all, you know, upset and so on and became very viral. And, um, you told the other

00:14:37.700 side was this guy had a long history of harassing dog owners in the park. And he had threatened,

00:14:41.340 had indeed threatened, not just Amy's dog, but other people's dogs in the past and blah,

00:14:44.960 blah, blah, blah. So the, the problem I had with Amy Cooper and I, and you and I talked

00:14:49.600 about this before was, was not that she said, I'm going to call the cops and tell them that

00:14:54.080 you're threatening me. Cause he was, it was the fact that she said to him before she called

00:14:58.000 the cops, she was going to mention his race. She said, I'm going to tell them that a black

00:15:01.620 man is threatening me. That's where she went off the rails. If she had just called 911 and

00:15:06.360 said, he's a black man, he's six, two, he's in the Bramble, you know, like that's one

00:15:10.600 thing. And I think that's the problem with Kanye's comments too. It's not just like you're

00:15:16.120 being controlled by a bunch of Hollywood power brokers and then he names them and they all

00:15:20.240 happen to be Jewish. He's like saying, I'm going after the Jews. I mean, like it's different.

00:15:27.360 It's like, it's more in the, you know, I'm going to make your thing, your race or your

00:15:31.460 ethnicity or your religious views an issue.

00:15:33.720 Yeah. Look, I'll set the Amy Cooper stuff aside for a moment and just talk about Kanye

00:15:39.760 here. And, and I, I think it's important to acknowledge here that when Tucker sat down

00:15:44.560 with Kanye, the knock on the interview was, why is anyone talking to Kanye? He's crazy.

00:15:49.320 And then Kanye says something that seems kind of crazy. He tweets it anyways. And it is kind

00:15:55.560 of incoherent and seems a bit antisemitic and everyone's like, well, we need to condemn that

00:15:59.900 immediately. Wait a minute. Are we supposed to be not listening to this guy because he's crazy

00:16:03.140 or he's supposed to be condemning everything he says, because we presume that there's kind

00:16:06.360 of this precise racially motivated attack. And I should say cards on the table as I'm kind

00:16:11.060 of seeing my visages on the screen here. And I know that over my shoulder, um, is Kanye's

00:16:16.040 discography. Um, I'm a big fan. It's on the wall. I mean, I even have a bobblehead like

00:16:23.520 that. I'm a big, I'm a big fan of Kanye West music. Um, but that said, like most artists

00:16:31.300 like aren't going to be brilliant intellectuals that have worldly knowledge about a range of

00:16:36.820 important topics. Kanye's lyrics have always included kind of conspiratorial, like nutty

00:16:43.800 stuff about like the government administering AIDS for the purposes of killing black people.

00:16:48.020 And even in that Tucker interview, when he talked about obesity and how we have kind of

00:16:53.540 romanticized it, how there are people who won't be honest about the fact that if you are morbidly

00:16:58.720 obese, this could kill you. He says that the reason why this is happening is because there's

00:17:04.300 a conspiracy to kill black people, a conspiracy which he is attributing to white people. This

00:17:09.540 is, it's the same sort of preposterous language. And I would agree with you, Megan. It is broadly

00:17:15.300 reprehensible that we traffic in this sort of stuff, but there is a sincere fair point to

00:17:21.280 be made that we actually do give people a pass to use this kind of categorical totalizing

00:17:27.000 language and even to engage in that kind of bizarre conspiratorial musing when it comes to white

00:17:34.300 supremacy and whiteness broadly. And we don't allow that when it comes to Jewish people. I would say

00:17:41.360 that that's probably the appropriate standard for us to regard that kind of race mongering for what

00:17:46.980 it is, whether it's Tiffany Cross or it's Kanye West would say that's repugnant. That's something that

00:17:51.720 people shouldn't be engaged in. I think some of the selective outrage about these things,

00:17:55.440 and I do understand the unique history of talking about kind of Jewish people as puppet

00:17:59.460 masters. That is gross and despicable. I think there's also a very high probability

00:18:03.720 that Kanye West isn't familiar with that. Again, Jewish black people are Jews. What are you talking

00:18:09.580 about exactly? Is that like the guys who are in Times Square?

00:18:13.200 Yes.

00:18:13.740 Yes, I did.

00:18:14.740 The black people, I did.

00:18:16.540 Because then how can you take him seriously when he's talking about this? I love the music.

00:18:20.740 I appreciate much of the fashion, but his insights on politics, I shelf them right next to like Bruce

00:18:27.320 Springsteen's. I do not give a crap what they think about political issues.

00:18:31.840 Isn't this the danger with conservatives sometimes? And somebody, a listener to our show who sent us a

00:18:38.400 message and was like, as a conservative, what do you pick, Kanye West or Kevin Sorbo?

00:18:43.280 I mean, that's okay, right? I mean, you have, you don't-

00:18:45.540 There's like, I'm sure he's a nice guy.

00:18:47.100 Nice guy. I'm sure he's lovely. I never, don't know what he's in.

00:18:49.620 But this kind of dearth of like conservative, famous people, and particularly in the world

00:18:54.760 of culture, and people get excited. They're like, ah, Kanye. And then he says things that

00:18:58.520 about 40% of it is completely incoherent. Like, all right, that's fine. Just forget about that.

00:19:02.000 He said something about, you know, romanticizing obesity and Lizzo. And it's like, he also said

00:19:07.100 it was demonic. So I don't know if he's on the same.

00:19:10.060 Demonic conspiracy to kill black people.

00:19:12.760 Yeah.

00:19:13.620 Indiana attorney general or some Indiana Republican politician.

00:19:18.160 Yes.

00:19:18.800 After the absolutely bonkers anti-Semitic statement is like, you know, the media,

00:19:24.420 they're just going after the truth.

00:19:26.100 Who are the media, Matt?

00:19:28.260 Ask yourself this.

00:19:30.200 I am someone who doesn't want to necessarily sentence people to be in intensive therapy

00:19:39.120 with Dr. Eugene Landy.

00:19:40.460 I think there's, I think there's a bad history of that. He was the very controversial, crazy

00:19:45.520 psychotherapist who more or less imprisoned Brian Wilson for about seven, eight years there

00:19:50.080 in the late seventies and early eighties. But Brian Wilson is a, is, was a seriously drug

00:19:55.980 addicted, a schizophrenic whose brain was broken by a bunch of different things.

00:20:00.160 Um, and he was sort of taken out of, of, uh, himself, um, for intensive therapy. Uh, someone

00:20:08.300 needs to put Kanye back on the no Twitter diet. Um, I mean, it's, there's something that is

00:20:14.100 gross about, um, uh, kind of exploiting, uh, mental illness for whatever reason. Um, it makes

00:20:23.760 it a little bit, uh, strange because both in the case of Kanye West and Brian Wilson,

00:20:27.240 who weren't the same people, but they're both super artistic geniuses. And it's possible

00:20:32.240 that some of the wellspring overlaps there, but it's also truthful that it's awkward as

00:20:38.100 hell. There was just a new Brian Wilson documentary that came out that he participated in and, and

00:20:42.240 was, uh, I think an executive producer on, um, that came out last year. And it's just really

00:20:46.580 awful to watch because he's like a child, um, and, and schizophrenic. And he's sort of,

00:20:52.700 um, he's exploiting himself in this sense. Um, and I don't like to watch it. And it's like that

00:20:58.540 with, with, uh, Kanye, I don't, I, I love his music to the extent that I'm exposed to it.

00:21:03.300 And, um, but I don't really want to see him talk ever again, unless it's at, uh, hurricane Katrina,

00:21:09.120 uh, fundraiser. I'll just say one thing. There's one thing he said, he told Tucker that it hurts,

00:21:14.140 quote, hurts his feelings when people suggest he's in the midst of a mental breakdown when he says

00:21:19.600 these controversial things, um, or when they accuse him of being like bipolar and this is

00:21:25.160 what's driving his commentary. I mean, he, I think he himself admitted that he has bipolar disorder,

00:21:30.800 um, in 2019. So that is a thing for him. Now I don't, I don't know enough about bipolar disorder

00:21:37.680 to know. I mean, my under, my lay person understanding is you have manic swings and depressive

00:21:42.300 swings. And I don't know that you're, that you say things you don't believe in, in one of those

00:21:49.060 phases. You know what I mean? It doesn't, doesn't make you say things you don't actually believe

00:21:52.440 in. It just makes, it changes your mood, changes your approach, your conversation, your energy

00:21:55.780 level, and you know, your thoughts about life and what matters. Um, but either way, I think you're

00:22:01.260 hitting the nail on the head with like, this is how I felt about him on Friday before he said any of

00:22:05.040 this stuff. Um, my mind cannot connect with his mind. My mind doesn't work anything like the way his

00:22:11.880 mind works. And so I really kind of have given up trying to understand him, you know, like I don't,

00:22:17.140 I don't get it. Um, but I do think you can sort of appreciate this creative genius in our society

00:22:22.880 and understand some of his eccentricities are connected to those gifts. It's kind of like,

00:22:28.540 forgive me, but like Michael, Michael Jackson, you know, or even like a Tom Cruise, you know,

00:22:34.460 like the Scientology stuff, these people get so big and they do have massive creative streaks that I

00:22:41.040 certainly don't have. And there's something that changes them as a result of that and the huge

00:22:47.380 success and the huge fame that follows. Yeah. I think that's right.

00:22:53.160 Listeners, uh, just as a very brief, only Camille talk is that our friend, frequent guest, and I know

00:22:58.420 his father has been on this show, Megan, Ben Dreyfuss, um, had a great tweet thread yesterday about

00:23:06.020 mental illness and Kanye and people said, you know, uh, you know, I know people with mental illness

00:23:10.300 and it doesn't make them all of a sudden antisemitic. Ben has is very open about the fact that he's been

00:23:15.660 institutionalized in the past. It has a very, very thoughtful thread about what bipolar and this sort

00:23:21.060 of thing can do to one's, um, you know, brain and make you paranoid and make you say things that you

00:23:26.900 might not otherwise say when you're not in a medical episode, but I recommend people, people check that

00:23:30.920 out because Ben, I actually follow Ben's substack. I just haven't read it from yesterday. I was just

00:23:35.880 recently looking at the one about Jon Stewart, which I thought was highly entertaining where he

00:23:39.540 wrote Jon Stewart will not be president. He's not going to be president. So stop, take a seat.

00:23:46.700 Ben is always great. I'll say this. I don't think Kanye is crazy. Um, he, he has acknowledged that

00:23:53.300 he's bipolar. Um, I, I don't think most of us are, none of us are designed for the sort of attention

00:23:59.000 and adulation and criticism that people in a position like Kanye's endure. And I think it's,

00:24:05.820 it's easy to kind of Chuck Spears and to, to hurl ridicule at him, at Kim Kardashian, et cetera.

00:24:12.940 They earn fortunes in many respects because they have such high profiles and the fortunes have kind

00:24:18.480 of earned them those profiles, but it's worth having some sympathy and some empathy. Um, I remember,

00:24:23.880 you know, when I first saw that Kanye was going to be on a Tucker show, my first thought was that

00:24:29.780 this doesn't really seem like the sort of thing that I would want to do if I were producing a news

00:24:35.860 show to like take him and put them on broadcast television, because a lot of the output on social

00:24:40.980 media just didn't seem like a guy who was in a particularly great place. I mean, he was in the

00:24:45.860 midst of having these really public explosive arguments with people where he's denigrating

00:24:51.180 them. He just broken up with Adidas and gap, um, in the weeks prior to that, like he's

00:24:58.240 and filmed it and posted. Yeah. I don't know if, I don't know if it, I don't know if unstable is like

00:25:03.620 the right phrase, but at a minimum, he is making the kind of decisions and of great consequence in a

00:25:09.860 way that if I were a friend of his and I was close to him, I would be encouraging him to take a step

00:25:15.460 back. Like what you need at the moment probably isn't, you know, a national television audience

00:25:20.500 and, you know, two hours of content that are going to be taken and dribbled out over the course

00:25:25.080 of two days. You need a vacation. Let's get out of here so we can collect our thoughts and then come

00:25:30.980 back to the public and continue your career. Well, the whole thing was delivered in a different way

00:25:37.000 than that. Like he, his messaging on Tucker was, I don't want to be told that anymore. He kind of

00:25:43.180 painted himself as a victim of cancel culture in the way that so many people have been like I

00:25:47.940 self-censored. I wanted to say a lot more about my admiration for Trump and so on. And I didn't feel

00:25:53.520 like I could because of my industry, because they were all against him and because I knew I'd be

00:25:58.160 called crazy, you know, I'd be called crazy. So you have to be careful on the other side too,

00:26:03.140 and dismissing, you know, his opinions that are out there, not necessarily loving Trump or not.

00:26:08.140 I mean, a lot of people feel that that way as a function of his bipolar disorder. But I will take

00:26:14.200 you on on this. I do not feel empathetic toward Kim Kardashian in general. I've been going on a tear

00:26:21.460 over her for the past couple of days, because every time I open my paper, there she is again. And I find

00:26:27.980 it deeply alarming. Like, what are we celebrating? Her enormous fake ass? Her extreme plastic surgery?

00:26:37.540 No, no, no. She's not writing the stories, though. She's not writing the stories. I'll say this.

00:26:43.200 Oh, she is too writing this. Stop it right now. She is orchestrated every single one of the photographs

00:26:49.940 you've ever seen. There isn't one that was organic every single time. The paparazzi has been called by

00:26:55.220 her and lured to the location. And then she shows the bottom and then she photoshops it. And then

00:27:00.520 she denies that she's done any of that shit. And then little girls all over America are like,

00:27:04.800 oh, why is it my bottom five times the size that it is without any surgery whatsoever?

00:27:08.960 I must be inadequate. And then you say, no, sweetheart, you're not. Every mother across

00:27:12.660 America says, no, sweetheart, you're not. But they continue to see these absurd, obscene images of

00:27:18.260 her. And then she's like, oh, you know, I'm sad that my my children's school was mentioned by Kanye.

00:27:25.860 You're the one who puts them on camera at every turn. It wasn't enough that you exploited yourself

00:27:31.120 and you put off your own sex tape. We all know it. And then pretended to be a victim about it. But now

00:27:36.880 you've got your kids at every public event. You put their faces on the camera almost as much as you put

00:27:41.320 your own face on the camera to the point where your kids are trying to hide when you bring them to the

00:27:45.240 fashion shows. They don't want to be public figures. So I don't feel sorry for her.

00:27:50.420 Megan, do you like Kim Kardashian?

00:27:52.940 I just kind of get it to make sure that people understand.

00:27:57.860 Is it you're a fan of her work?

00:28:00.340 My daughter, I actually watched the show with my daughter who was like, can you watch it? And she's 11.

00:28:06.960 And incidentally, she's never said, why is my ass not like that?

00:28:10.720 Just in fairness.

00:28:11.740 She thinks it.

00:28:12.800 She thinks it.

00:28:13.560 Yeah, she's a very good gymnast and that would be a difficult thing as a gymnast. But she watched

00:28:19.500 it and made fun of them the entire time. So that's when I realized that I was not doing a

00:28:23.940 terrible job as a parent because she watched this and was like, these people are absolutely

00:28:28.000 ridiculous. I did once, by the way, it was assigned something for Newsweek and it's an

00:28:33.080 old issue of Newsweek where I watched the show. I had never seen it before and I made the mistake

00:28:37.040 of telling an editorial meeting that I hadn't. So they made me go watch it and write about it.

00:28:41.680 And I came to a slightly different conclusion. The first thing, by the way, is I got the

00:28:45.640 neurovirus right the day I started watching it. So I spent the entire time watching and

00:28:49.860 vomiting, which is absolutely perfect. And it's absolutely true, by the way. And I watched

00:28:54.560 the other and I was like, you know, I mean, credit for being great business people, not great

00:29:00.940 role models, Megan. I don't think they're great role models. But, you know, I mean, people

00:29:04.420 like it. I don't know what they're selling. I don't understand it. I don't pretend to understand

00:29:07.840 it. But, you know, and, you know, she she was good with Trump and, you know, getting

00:29:11.700 some people out of prison, which which I thought was I got total credit on Alice Marie Johnson.

00:29:15.880 I do. I get that. And I'm not saying she's never done good things. And I and I said that

00:29:20.040 many times. But there's Kim Kardashian, the person. And then there's Kim Kardashian, the

00:29:26.160 brand. And the brand is dangerous. I'm telling you, the Kardashian brand is dangerous. It's

00:29:32.160 done way more harm than good to young girls across this country and continues to grow

00:29:36.380 and become more influential. I mean, I will tell you, I've said this story in the air.

00:29:40.280 My daughter and her little friend were in my bathroom with me one morning. I was getting

00:29:43.880 ready and I was putting on my makeup. And the other little girl said, oh, is that is that

00:29:49.900 by Kim Kardashian, the makeup? And I was like, when I gave her the side eye, like, no, it's

00:29:58.500 not. And my daughter said she goes, who's Kim Kardashian? And I said to her, I

00:30:06.360 I do not mean I do not wish to be the person who introduces this woman into your life.

00:30:11.540 You know, I really think that this group of people and I don't think they have evil

00:30:16.960 hearts. I want to say that again, it's different from, you know, some other bad guys in the

00:30:20.100 news. But that brand has grown to the point where I think newspapers need to be really

00:30:24.140 careful about splashing those photos all over the pages with impunity, because I do think

00:30:29.780 we're setting a terrible example for our young kids.

00:30:32.980 I mean, I don't want to belabor this. I'll say this. I met Kim. I met Kim once and her

00:30:41.080 mom, actually. And I'll say this, like the conversation that we had was about like her

00:30:45.500 work in criminal justice reform. It was about her efforts with programs like the Innocence

00:30:49.660 Project. She's incredibly bright. There's a very real sense in which the sexualization

00:30:55.320 and all that other stuff, those are legitimate things that one could take issue with. But I think

00:31:00.400 it's worth acknowledging that there are other ways that they could be covered. These women,

00:31:05.400 this family, like they're moguls. They've built businesses, like legitimate businesses that don't

00:31:10.160 have anything to do with those other things. Based on nothing. They're brilliant marketers.

00:31:13.720 Trust me, Camille. I know the family. I went out there and interviewed all of them. And I did my

00:31:18.060 homework before I did that, as I do with everything. And they are marketing masters. And I get it.

00:31:23.860 They're in the beauty business. Which is something. But they have built an empire. But they've built

00:31:27.520 an empire based on absolutely nothing. No talent. It started with her sex tape, which her own

00:31:34.460 mother, according to the man in the document, the film with her, put out there with their consent.

00:31:42.620 No, I mean, I've seen Ray J talk about it. Take it easy. I saw him talk about it. I don't watch that.

00:31:47.140 But what you do on your own time is up to you.

00:31:51.640 The patriarchy is not working because Ray J did not get famous from that. I still don't know who

00:31:55.380 he is. Well, Ray J was already a little famous. He was more famous with her than her at the time

00:31:59.660 that was made. But I think that's another point. Their marketing, and it's, again, all of the kind

00:32:05.700 of general, all the general criticism about the sex tape, about the over-sexualization, et cetera,

00:32:12.500 all fair. But there are plenty of people who make sex tapes and plenty of people who might be

00:32:15.920 physically attractive who haven't been able to eke out the kind of success that they have.

00:32:20.680 Like, it's kind of an extraordinary only in America story, for better or worse. And what it

00:32:25.580 says about America might not be terribly nice, but I don't think that's their fault. I mean,

00:32:30.740 there's a very kind of long history of this sort of thing, whether it's Marilyn Monroe or Kim Kardashian.

00:32:36.120 He said, blame the players or blame the game, not the players. And I really thought about it. It was

00:32:39.820 just last week. I blame both. I mean, I really did. The game is wrong and the players are wrong. The

00:32:44.960 players do not get excused for being disgusting players. Go ahead, Camille.

00:32:50.020 No, I'll say fair. Fair. I don't want to belabor it.

00:32:54.540 You know, I get the point. And also, you know, I said that positive things about their business

00:32:59.740 acumen. There's negative things to be said about it, too. I mean, Kim Kardashian was just fined over

00:33:04.460 a million and a half dollars. Yeah. Boosting crypto.

00:33:07.960 For being a text sheet. Yeah. And there's been a bunch of things, you know, those like credit card

00:33:15.140 stuff and apps that kind of charge parents. And so they've been involved in some dodgy stuff,

00:33:20.000 too. But the thing to think about with them is, you know, did they usher in an era or was this an

00:33:25.880 era because of technology that was inevitable? Because right now, if you talk to young people,

00:33:29.860 the Kardashians are they know who they are. They don't care about them too much. And there's a whole

00:33:34.780 bunch of new people on TikTok in particular that they're obsessed with. And like I talked to a

00:33:39.340 bunch of like young girls about this stuff for a piece that I did. And they're like, oh, this guy

00:33:43.260 and he's got 25. I'm like, I've never heard of any of these people. These kind of like, like,

00:33:47.080 they're not even micro celebrities because they're macro celebrities. They have unbelievable

00:33:51.140 followers. And it's all. Those are the women who came after that. Yes. No, that's what I'm

00:33:56.700 wondering. Would that have happened anyway because of technology? I don't know. I don't know. But

00:34:01.560 these women have 100 million followers on Instagram, probably more. That was back when

00:34:06.280 I interviewed them in 17 or 18. I mean, I'm sure it's greater than that now. And I'm sure a lot of

00:34:11.440 them are bought and paid for and all that. But still, the number's got to be huge if it's up,

00:34:14.660 you know, at those levels. And they they are at the heart of selfie culture. When you see these

00:34:21.940 girls going out to lunch with each other and instead of just enjoying each other across the table,

00:34:25.600 they're taking their own picture in 50 different ways instead of watching the sports game or the movie or

00:34:30.960 the band. They're making it about themselves and doing their stupid fake poses. I blame the

00:34:36.180 Kardashians not entirely, but hugely. They had a huge role in it. They're all about selfies and the way

00:34:43.460 they look and extreme, inappropriate, false vanity. It drives me insane. They're a force for evil in the

00:34:51.180 country. Who's the antidote? I mentioned the Queen of England the other day. Like, who? Where is the

00:34:56.420 distinguished, smart, fierce, patriotic, you know, businesswoman who we can point to as the anti

00:35:05.600 Kardashian? We don't have that. We don't revere women like that in this country. We take the big

00:35:10.820 ass, big boobed women and we give them a total pass for what they've done to the children.

00:35:15.640 If they managed to get a great woman like Alice Marie Johnson out of jail, by the way, Kim Kardashian

00:35:20.300 did not do that herself. OK, there were a lot of other people. No, not on the road.

00:35:22.860 It was Donald Trump. And she would. She called attention to it, I think. So that was it. That was

00:35:26.160 a blessing. I agree. That was a good thing she did. It was a mitzvah, but it doesn't come close

00:35:31.040 to overshadowing all the other stuff that she's done to hurt other girls, in particular, the young

00:35:36.660 ones. All right. I'm sorry. Belabor, belabor. That's the last word. I don't know why I didn't.

00:35:44.040 Did you know that Megyn Kelly was so angry at the Kardashians? It was like touching that nerve was the

00:35:48.600 best thing that ever happened to me. I knew. I have one question for you, Megyn. I'm going

00:35:54.160 to turn this around and pretend it's my show. I was in a yogurt shop the other day. It was like

00:35:59.780 in August. I saw a woman at the front putting stuff on her yogurt. And I said, that woman looks

00:36:05.020 vaguely familiar. And the person I was with said, that is Bethany Frankel. And I was like,

00:36:10.260 Bethany Frankel. And it's like, oh, she's the real, like the OG real housewife.

00:36:14.940 A lot of what you're describing is very much because I've watched a few of those episodes.

00:36:19.780 It is exploitative as people throwing drinks at each other, like behave horribly and you'll

00:36:24.100 become famous. There are people who matter. All the men are like these trollish, horrible

00:36:28.740 men. And they're all married to like beautiful or once beautiful women who married them clearly

00:36:33.660 for money. It's a lot of bad messages for young people. Do you feel the same way about the

00:36:39.200 fantastically entertaining real housewives? No, I don't. I don't. First of all, I think they have

00:36:45.780 different audiences. I think the Kardashians are for younger women and girls and real housewives.

00:36:52.000 They're fucking my age. I mean, it's there for like people like me who want to put on candy instead

00:36:58.240 of sports on Sundays and just to have a little mindless TV. They haven't built enormous empires

00:37:05.180 based on their fake boobs or fake bottoms, which they then deny are fake.

00:37:11.020 Why are you pointing out the two best things about Kim Kardashian and then denouncing them?

00:37:15.580 It's not good stuff. It's not bad stuff. It's not bad.

00:37:19.280 I don't know. I got to be honest. Even if Kim Kardashian said it's fake, it's all fake,

00:37:24.820 I'd respect her a little bit more, but I'd still say you're dangerous. Like, would you please focus

00:37:29.600 on your criminal justice stuff, which, you know, you could take issue with too, depending on the

00:37:34.720 person. But we focus on your law. Why don't you do something with that law degree, which you clearly

00:37:38.660 just did as a vanity project to try to make yourself sound like you were a little smarter than you

00:37:43.060 actually might be. She failed the bar three times. Don't get me started. All right. She could actually

00:37:47.340 do something. She could actually be a force for good, but she chooses not to. And the whole line

00:37:52.460 behind her, it's just like the Meghan Markle thing. Meghan Markle targeted Prince Harry. She wanted to be a

00:37:57.680 star. She rejected a couple of other British guys who weren't powerful enough. Then she was

00:38:02.620 rejected by a bunch of them. How embarrassing for Prince Harry to have been the one who fell for it.

00:38:07.160 What a dope. I mean, we had Tom Bauer on their show on Friday being like, Prince Harry's dumb.

00:38:12.040 That's why he went for the one that, I don't know, all these other soccer stars rejected and so on.

00:38:16.860 But they were conniving and they saw a means to stardom, to fame, to being self-centered for a living.

00:38:23.700 And the same is true with Kim Kardashian, her sex tape. They're on parallel lines. And what's

00:38:28.760 happened? We've rewarded them. I will give Kardashian this. She's not constantly running

00:38:34.300 around like a victim, like Meghan Markle now is having, you know, gotten the crown. She wants

00:38:39.180 us to feel sorry for her. That's the difference between the two. My God, I need to take a break.

00:38:43.740 Do you have, do you have, do you take an exit like 12, 30 or is that fine?

00:38:49.700 But wait, Meghan Markle, I'll say this. She is the worst person in America and I just want

00:38:54.940 that. And like, she didn't succeed. She's never gotten anyone out of jail.

00:38:59.400 In the Kardashians, whatever you think of them succeeded on their own. She succeeded

00:39:02.140 by marrying the ginger guy that used to wear a Nazi uniform.

00:39:05.060 That like she, he's literally, well, he did. He's literally, he did, he did as a costume.

00:39:10.680 And by the way, she's getting, unlike the Kardashians who really come in for it on this

00:39:16.300 show, it's a pretty rough ride in the media, appropriately so too, because, because yeah,

00:39:22.420 not, not a fan of the Markle, but I'll just give you a chance.

00:39:25.480 And she's going to, after this break as well, because I got something to say on her latest

00:39:28.620 podcast. Stand by. We're with the host of the fifth column right after this. Wow.

00:39:33.460 At some point, we're going to talk Russia. Stand by.

00:39:42.520 So Meghan Markle's podcast released another episode today. And this is really just a series

00:39:48.660 of attempted victimizations, like women who are very successful, who she wants to repaint

00:39:55.140 as a victim from Mariah Carey to Serena Williams to herself, of course, always herself. And today,

00:40:02.060 what she's upset about is how women are sometimes called crazy. And I will acknowledge that it is a

00:40:08.580 typical thing when you're trying to discredit any woman. There's a saying, nuts or sluts.

00:40:13.660 They're either nuts or sluts. Right. And so if you can't say she's a slut, you find a way to say

00:40:18.340 she's a nut. Now, that is definitely a tactic that is used by some people. But that doesn't mean that we

00:40:23.800 need to get rid of the term crazy to describe women, because guess what? We use it to describe men

00:40:29.160 all the time, as I believe we just spent about 25 minutes discussing the Kanye critics and his

00:40:36.180 frustrations. Right. So it does happen on, you know, to men and to women. But you would think

00:40:42.300 if you listen to this podcast, my God, that women we were still in 1870. We listen to the way like

00:40:47.340 how hard we have it as women when as Asian women, as black women, as as crazy women. And here's just

00:40:53.240 a bit of how she sounded today. Raise your hand if you've ever been called crazy or hysterical.

00:41:03.260 The guys are raising their hands.

00:41:04.940 Nuts. Insane. Out of your mind. Completely irrational. Okay, you get the point. Now,

00:41:12.260 if we were all in the same room and could see each other, I think it would be pretty easy to see just

00:41:18.100 how many of us have our hands up. By the way, me too. And it's no wonder when you consider just how

00:41:26.160 prevalent these labels are in our culture. Everything is an attempt to sound profound,

00:41:33.780 deep and knowledgeable and wise from all her years of doing absolutely nothing.

00:41:40.060 Trying to explain to us the other greatest offense she's managed to stumble on that she needs to sell.

00:41:45.880 Can I just say, you know what? You know who called me crazy repeatedly? Donald Trump

00:41:50.000 during that whole dust up that we had. You know what I did in response? Absolutely nothing. I let

00:41:54.680 it roll off my back and I was fine. And it wasn't a thing. And I didn't go on to do podcast or a podcast

00:41:58.960 on how I'd been victimized by being called crazy. This woman, my God, she trolls the comment sections

00:42:05.320 of the internet, finds the most offensive one, and then makes it into a podcast. Anyway, you guys too,

00:42:12.260 you've suffered. You've been called crazy. Raise your hand for the audience now.

00:42:14.980 I mean, it's an accurate description. So I mean, there's no, like, if you care about journalistic

00:42:25.720 truth, then we have to call it that. What I love about it, besides her, you know, elementary school

00:42:32.480 librarian voice that she was using there, is that that was written out. Yeah, that was absolutely,

00:42:38.360 that was the worst prevalence. I will bet all my life savings was written for her as she was attempting

00:42:45.720 to sound like she was having a conversation with fellow women sufferers and things. Jesus Christ,

00:42:52.140 everybody suffers. The REM taught us in 1994 that everybody hurts. We are, we are not just in the 1%,

00:43:01.420 we're in the 0.1% in the world of fortune. And she is in the 0.001%. Yeah. But that's the point,

00:43:10.240 right? And to Megan's comment is that everybody is coming on this show as somebody who has been,

00:43:17.240 you know, abused or suffered or, you know, the victim of an ism. And I look at that as one of the

00:43:24.940 great vindications of America. It's a great patriotic point where if you go around the world,

00:43:29.920 people who have been victims of things have nothing, you know, can't, don't have potable

00:43:35.160 drinking water, don't have money or put in jail for having opinions or for being a certain race or a

00:43:41.200 certain ethnicity or a certain religion. Whereas Megan Markle doesn't realize from her billion dollar

00:43:47.280 place in Montecito, she's interviewing the downtrodden other millionaires that are around her. And I

00:43:54.220 don't know if you saw Sharon Osbourne had this hilarious comment that Megan, Megan Markle has

00:43:58.820 one talent. She just wants to be around rich people and you have to be at a certain level of

00:44:03.360 wealth. And that is hilarious when you think of the fact that she's talking incessantly about people

00:44:09.600 who have been wounded by society, but they all seem to have an enormous amount of money,

00:44:13.320 not a bad society to live in. The second thing is I wanted to point out that I watched a video the

00:44:17.520 other day and your, your listeners and viewers can find this, uh, from, um, Emily Ratatouille,

00:44:24.400 Ratatouille, the one that's, uh, extremely attractive and dumb, but who thinks she's really

00:44:30.440 smart. And she had this, uh, like selfie video. It was amazing. And she was like, I heard about,

00:44:38.200 but I haven't watched that Marilyn Monroe movie called Blonde. And I'm really tired. And she hasn't

00:44:42.620 watched it. She's telling you this. I'm really tired of Hollywood, um, um, like doing things to

00:44:48.100 women's pain to make it like monetizable. And she's like, I own my pain. And I'm like, what is this

00:44:53.280 woman even talking about? You were like the hottest woman on earth. Like literally people give you tons

00:44:58.460 of money and you have no talent. You just were born with amazing assets. And she's like doing this

00:45:04.160 thing about how awful it is. And we are in this moment where if you talk like this about pain and

00:45:10.500 being called crazy, it's just utter nonsense. You don't need any data. There's going to be a study

00:45:15.200 to back it up. And everyone's like, that is really brave, Emily. Yeah. And Megan Montesino.

00:45:20.600 That's right. And again, everyone I know is being called crazy.

00:45:24.140 Everyone. Sometimes they are. That's the thing.

00:45:28.500 Yes. I've dated most of them.

00:45:31.300 Well, so this, you, she would take issue. This is going to wind up in her next podcast. This clip

00:45:35.460 right here, because look what she singles out. Deb, this is the last of the three clips.

00:45:39.520 Look what she singles out as examples of how out of control our society is on, on women.

00:45:45.720 I feel like you guys think that we like choose to be crazy. You know, it's an active choice.

00:45:50.780 A girl is allowed to be crazy as long as she is equally hot. Thus, if she's this crazy,

00:45:55.340 she has to be this hot. I don't think that men can control crazy women.

00:45:59.520 Carla, I cannot hide the crazy a minute longer. I'm just this big mountain of cuckoo who's about

00:46:03.240 to erupt and spew molten crazy all over him. And he's going to die like this.

00:46:06.060 She doesn't trust you. That is crazy. Let me tell you why.

00:46:10.040 The use of these labels has been drilled into us from movies and TV, from friends and family,

00:46:16.040 and even from random strangers. And the fact is, no one wants this label.

00:46:21.800 Oh my Lord. How I Met Your Mother, Scrubs, et cetera, are on the evil list because they did this and they

00:46:29.960 had women singing about themselves. They had men singing it to women. Those are all comedies,

00:46:33.980 by the way. So it's like, yeah. It's a joke. Yeah.

00:46:39.560 Yeah. She's not fun.

00:46:41.540 Well, it's the practice. It's the practice helplessness that bothers me. I have a young

00:46:45.580 daughter. I worry about her inculcating these values. She's not a victim. She shouldn't think

00:46:50.080 about herself that way. And she's not a victim on account of her being a female. It's preposterous.

00:46:55.000 You hear it. You release it and you move on. And I will submit to the jury that if it stays in there

00:47:01.660 and it really gets to you, maybe connecting with some reality, the things that bother you when it

00:47:08.860 comes to like bad insults are the things that resonate with you for some reason. I'm not saying

00:47:13.660 she's crazy, but she does go on to talk about her alleged suicide and how low she was and all

00:47:18.420 that. Not suicide, but suicidal thoughts and how Harry had to rescue. I mean, like she's been on

00:47:23.140 this for a while. Meanwhile, you go back and you look at her lifestyle website before she met Harry

00:47:28.000 and it was like life is grand. OK, pause. Be right back. Much, much more with the guys from the fifth

00:47:32.760 column. Like, are we about to go to nuclear war with Russia? So back to the hard news, and that is

00:47:41.600 we may be going to nuclear war with Russia. Not really. But according to our president's

00:47:48.740 loose language, he's throwing around possibilities like that, like it's a nothing. I mean, haphazardly,

00:47:55.500 this is not one of those things. It's OK to have the White House staff come back two days later and

00:48:00.040 try to clean up. We need really clear and careful messaging from the commander in chief on things

00:48:06.440 like nuclear war. And that memo clearly didn't get to our president, who said the following on Thursday

00:48:14.120 about the possibility. No. OK, I've got it. It's not on camera. Who said on Thursday that we are looking

00:48:22.420 at possible Armageddon that we haven't seen. I want to get the exact quote, but I don't have it in front

00:48:27.500 of me, but that we haven't we haven't been this close to Armageddon since 1962. That's how we put

00:48:32.000 it since 1962. Now, what happened in 1962? It was the Cuban Missile Crisis. All right. So we went back,

00:48:38.440 took a little walk down memory lane and pulled some old news footage because it's always fun to see what

00:48:42.780 was going on in 1962 when John F. Kennedy was president and we had a showdown with the Soviets

00:48:49.220 over them moving missiles into Cuba and pointing them at the United States. And that was the last

00:48:57.040 very real possibility. There was the whole cold war or after that, where we actually thought we

00:49:02.040 might be heading to nuclear war with Russia. Here's a little bit of that old news footage.

00:49:07.720 For some days before the presidential announcement, lights had burned late in key Washington offices,

00:49:13.400 as those most vitally involved in the nation's defense and security made ready to deal with the

00:49:18.980 crisis. Well in advance, the strategic air command had been put on super alert. Global disbursement

00:49:27.760 and redeployment, increased in-flight readiness. Polaris subs, each with 16 nuclear missiles, would give

00:49:35.720 added force to our announcement when it came. During the week preceding the president's speech,

00:49:41.680 the tactical air command had quietly repositioned thousands of men, tons of equipment, large numbers

00:49:48.440 of fighter reconnaissance and troop carrier aircraft, mostly in Florida. I love that old news footage,

00:49:55.340 can't get enough of that stuff. Managed to avoid nuclear war back then because while Kennedy was

00:50:00.440 advised to carry out an airstrike on Cuban soil in order to compromise Soviet missile supplies,

00:50:06.160 followed by an invasion of the Cuban mainland, he chose instead a less aggressive course of action

00:50:11.660 in order to avoid a declaration of war, using a naval quarantine to prevent further missiles from

00:50:17.880 reaching Cuba. And then tense negotiations followed in which he and the Soviets decided to

00:50:25.380 de-escalate Khrushchev. And basically the Soviets would dismantle their offensive weapons in Cuba and

00:50:32.500 return to the Soviet Union. And we would pull back and say we would never invade Cuba again. This is

00:50:37.860 after Bay of Pigs. So in any event, it was a very scary time for Americans. And Joe Biden comes out,

00:50:43.720 here's the exact quote on Thursday and says, Putin was not joking about potentially using, quote,

00:50:49.220 tactical nuclear weapons or biological or chemical weapons because his military is, you might say,

00:50:54.420 significantly underperforming. End quote. He goes on, quote, we have not faced the prospect of

00:50:59.560 Armageddon since Kennedy and the Cuban missile crisis. We have a direct threat of the use of nuclear

00:51:05.880 weapons if, in fact, things continue down the path they are going. This is, I think, not OK. What do

00:51:15.480 you guys make of it? Not OK. Reckless. And said, I think, at a fundraiser that was, am I wrong about

00:51:22.460 that? Was it James Murdoch's house? No, you're right. A fundraiser for that. But no, I mean, the parallel

00:51:27.960 is stupid and wrong. Very different scenario. I mean, if you look back in 1962, there was things

00:51:35.620 to negotiate, right? I mean, that ended because the Cubans pulled their missiles out. The Russians

00:51:41.340 pulled their missiles out of Cuba and we pulled missiles out of Turkey that were pointing at the

00:51:45.800 Soviet Union. This is not a similar situation as that you have a country that's been invaded in

00:51:50.460 Ukraine and the Russians are mad that they're losing. There's not a lot of negotiation that can

00:51:56.660 happen here, particularly because Zelensky and if you look at all the actually decent opinion

00:52:02.300 polling that's happening in Ukraine, nobody in Ukraine really wants to negotiate this. They

00:52:06.240 want to win, particularly because they are winning now. For the president to say that we, the guys,

00:52:12.860 he's serious. That's not, that's very, very bad leadership and very bad diplomacy because what we

00:52:19.980 probably know about this, and I imagine people in the DOD and there's people who actually study this

00:52:24.300 stuff and people within the military understand that this should be taken very seriously. You know,

00:52:29.060 the Ukrainians are taking it seriously. They are handing out sort of anti-radiation pills to people,

00:52:34.280 people who want them, but there's not a widespread panic. There's not a panic in the United States.

00:52:39.240 There's not a panic in Europe where that obviously those dust clouds would go like, like happened in

00:52:44.400 Chernobyl in the late eighties. Why is there not a lot of panic? Because I don't think people

00:52:49.060 think, and rightfully so, that this is a logical option for food.

00:52:54.300 Americans exist for these types of threats. You don't actually say, oh my God, he's serious.

00:52:59.060 Armageddon, I mean, Armageddon is a word of panic. Do not say that to the American people that we're

00:53:04.280 on the, on the precipice of Armageddon. There is, you know, we can come back from this, but the only

00:53:10.480 way of coming back from it is there's no negotiating with Putin on this, is this is what he wants, is

00:53:15.400 that he wants to break the will not of the Ukrainians because he cannot do that. He's noticed that

00:53:19.640 very, for over the past, you know, now seven or eight months that the Ukrainian spirit,

00:53:24.400 if anything, has been emboldened by the psychopathic actions of the Russian military. He's trying to

00:53:29.780 break the Europeans and the Americans. And of course, you know, President Biden is walking right

00:53:35.360 into that trap.

00:53:35.900 Hmm. This just doesn't sound very libertarian of you. I would have expected you to say,

00:53:40.080 it's not our war, this is somebody else's conflict, you know, stand out of it.

00:53:43.200 No, no. You know, because the people who are, and libertarians who say this are disgraceful,

00:53:47.820 who say that, you know, the people responsible for this war are anybody but the people in the

00:53:53.280 Kremlin who invaded a sovereign country, brutalized their people, and as we've seen in the last couple

00:53:57.520 of days, are punishing the fact that they actually, you know, have a better military. And yes,

00:54:02.980 we're arming them and the Europeans are arming them, but they're doing quite amazing things with

00:54:07.540 those arms because their homeland has been invaded. There's a kid from Novosibirsk does not want to be

00:54:12.060 killed in Ukraine. The guy in Ukraine will die for his country. It's a very, very different thing.

00:54:17.100 And now you have the terror bombing, like legitimate terrorism, definitionally terrorism,

00:54:21.920 where the brave Russian military hit a playground yesterday, a university building,

00:54:28.640 a bicycle bridge, things like that. The entire point, as Putin said,

00:54:32.000 is revenge for the attack on the bridge connecting Crimea to the Russian mainland.

00:54:36.380 And they're doing it by indiscriminately back against the wall, trying to terrorize the Ukrainian

00:54:41.560 people. Anybody who believes that the Russians have, you know, or has some sort of sympathy for

00:54:48.260 people that are doing this. And if you look at Bucha, if you look at all of these war crimes that we've

00:54:52.680 seen, massive, massive numbers of war crimes that we've seen, you know, I said on the show not too long

00:54:57.660 ago, America had a very, very long conversation about what happened at Abu Ghraib. There's about

00:55:03.880 700 Abu Ghraibs a day in Ukraine. And I think people that were anti-war, anti-interventionist,

00:55:11.180 anti-imperialist, however they want to say it, were very, very interested in all of those war crimes,

00:55:16.040 right? I mean, the collateral murder video that was released by WikiLeaks, which is a, you know,

00:55:21.800 a helicopter gunship mistaking a Reuters journalist for having an RPG and then lighting them up,

00:55:27.100 as I believe that the helicopter pilot said, that really, you know, changed a lot for a lot of

00:55:31.400 people because it was a terrible thing to see. That stuff happens every day in Ukraine. I don't

00:55:34.900 know why one can attack those things back in the day, maybe because it was George W. Bush that was

00:55:39.400 the person believed to be perpetrating these things or was perpetrating these things versus

00:55:43.940 the Russians and were on the other side of it. No, no, the Russians are 100%, the Kremlin is 100%

00:55:51.220 responsible for this and make no mistakes, is that if you allow this stuff to happen, if you allow

00:55:56.740 them to, you know, we don't have, we're not in a position to negotiate other people's sovereignty.

00:56:01.740 So when people come and say, well, we have to come to a conclusion, like Donald Trump said this the

00:56:04.480 other day, we have to come, no, no, no, Ukrainians have to, we can assist them, we can advise them,

00:56:09.500 we can help facilitate these things, but we cannot determine the fate of Ukraine. And for us to think

00:56:16.640 we can, you know, an anti-imperialist bunch of people would say America's always, you know,

00:56:20.700 putting its nose in everybody's business. Well, this is included. Do not tell the Ukrainians what

00:56:24.580 to do with their future. They have done an amazing job of retaking an enormous amount of territory

00:56:29.340 that was taken by the Russians. And I hope they take more and I hope to kick them out. And I hope

00:56:34.060 they kick them out of even Crimea. It's, it's a, it's a, it's, it's disgraceful.

00:56:38.360 You know, but what's scary about it is, I'll give you the floor, Matt, but what's scary about it is,

00:56:42.280 speaking of the Cuban missile crisis, you know, Kennedy got out of that. He got us out of that by

00:56:47.520 realizing when your enemy's in a corner, you've got to give them an off ramp. Otherwise the worst

00:56:52.700 will happen. And they did, they did. So he gave him an off ramp and they took it and we cut a deal

00:56:58.520 that both sides liked. And it led to a nice little period before the cold war. But how do we facilitate

00:57:04.480 an off ramp that would work for Ukraine? That would work for Putin? I mean, is your, do you think we

00:57:09.440 just, we just don't like the Ukrainians? And I understand the position is the off ramp is get out,

00:57:14.380 Russia, get out. But if he's not willing to do that. A quick thing on that is that, you know,

00:57:19.880 I understand that. And that of course was actually pretty, you know, interesting and impressive

00:57:25.520 diplomacy in the Cuban missile crisis. But you had two people that, as you mentioned, were in a cold

00:57:29.680 war, not a hot war. So that made the off ramps were slightly easier. What you, if you want to see a

00:57:34.520 Russian example of this, the Russians in 1945, they had been, you know, the great patriotic war,

00:57:39.920 they had been brutalized incredibly by the Wehrmacht and the German army. And they were

00:57:44.240 coming, sweeping back and they did amazingly horrible things. And they did nothing. There

00:57:49.340 was no off ramps. It was unconditional surrender. We're going to take every territory,

00:57:53.620 Estonia, et cetera. And there was, to them, there was like, this was the only option because they had

00:58:00.840 just fought a brutal war and you saw what happened in Stalingrad and Leningrad, et cetera. There's a

00:58:04.760 version of that right now in Ukraine. And I'm not saying that, you know, if I had my druthers,

00:58:09.340 I would offer an off ramp, et cetera, if I was in that position. But the Ukrainians are pretty

00:58:13.520 united on this front because of what has happened, because of the images they see every day, because

00:58:19.340 of, you know, people waiting in line at a train station being blown up by an enormous missile.

00:58:24.900 And, you know, you see children's shoes and clothes scattered around and people's, you know,

00:58:29.740 you know, broken bodies on the ground being hauled off. I mean, this has had a profound effect.

00:58:35.500 And look, the Zelensky administration, people close to me have said this. It has a profound

00:58:40.160 effect on the off ramp. If there was, as people say, a point of negotiation at the beginning of

00:58:45.840 this conflict, and there was points of negotiation, I don't think they were very serious. There is no

00:58:50.300 points of negotiation now. Why? Well, it's because of what's happened. And what has happened is that

00:58:55.200 the Ukrainians do not want an off ramp that actually cedes any of their territory because they

00:59:00.680 believe the entire conflict is the fault of the Russians and it's morally wrong to take somebody's

00:59:04.740 territory. I get that. I'm not saying I would do the exact same thing. I'm just saying that that is

00:59:08.740 definitely how the Ukrainians look at it. People forget that the Cold War wasn't just like people

00:59:16.720 from a distance issuing stern communiques with one another. That's not how it went. I mean,

00:59:22.580 in addition to being completely inappropriate for an American president to elevate the pathetic

00:59:28.400 attempt at using a nuclear arsenal as a deterrent to allied support for Ukraine. In addition to that,

00:59:35.860 it's just factually untrue that we are closer to Armageddon now. I get that it's a queasy-making

00:59:43.040 moment. Nobody likes it. I feel bad and worried about a lot of things right now. However, I'm old

00:59:50.660 enough to remember the Cold War. The Cold War had hot shooting wars with Americans in them against

00:59:56.880 Soviet-backed countries. There's a whole thing called Korea. Check it out. It happened after

01:00:01.020 World War II. It was a hot war. There was a series of hot wars everywhere. There were proxy wars all

01:00:08.480 over Africa, all over South America and Central America, between the two sides. There was obviously

01:00:13.120 Afghanistan. In all these moments of tense nuclear, not exchanges, but negotiations, people were dead

01:00:22.880 worried about a nuclear holocaust and Armageddon all throughout the eighties. My God, did you watch

01:00:29.360 a movie? Did you see a television series? That was constantly part of the culture and it didn't come

01:00:34.360 out of nowhere. It was part of what was happening diplomatically. We didn't know that it was all going

01:00:40.260 to suddenly collapse in 1989 through 1991. We assumed it would go like that forever. So part of this is

01:00:46.840 that I don't want to say that we've gotten soft. We've forgotten what it was like to live back then

01:00:52.240 under that constant kind of threat while people were dying in a lot of places.

01:00:56.460 And one small brief point on this on the nuclear question. The sovereignty of Ukraine was, and this

01:01:01.920 is very often overlooked and for some reason nearly, it's nearly ever pointed out, is that the Budapest

01:01:09.860 protocols in 1994, the exchange was that the Russians, Europe, America would recognize and

01:01:16.820 basically defend Ukraine's sovereignty or allow Ukraine to be a sovereign country if they gave

01:01:21.580 up their nuclear arsenal. At the breakup of the Soviet Union, so much of those were in Ukraine,

01:01:26.500 that Ukraine, I believe at the time, became the third largest nuclear country. And so in exchange for

01:01:31.960 giving up those weapons, which they did, and probably would be quite helpful right now in a nuclear

01:01:36.160 showdown, they were assured by the Russians that Ukraine was an independent country. And that's

01:01:42.320 important to remember because those treaties don't get to go away when you decide that they go away.

01:01:47.820 Right. I mean, those are those have people's signatures on them and they should mean something.

01:01:51.200 They don't mean anything right now. But it was because of the nuclear question that that their

01:01:54.880 sovereignty was actually guaranteed in the first place.

01:01:57.360 Want to want to tell you that, of course, there was the attempted cleanup by the White House.

01:02:01.280 The next day, Kareem Jean-Pierre comes out. The president's comments did not reflect any new

01:02:07.120 intelligence. Boy, that's true.

01:02:11.580 Where are the old intelligence for that?

01:02:17.120 Pentagon spokesperson John Kirby, his comments were not based on specific new information. We don't have

01:02:23.140 any information, in fact, that Putin has made that kind of a decision, nor have we seen anything that

01:02:28.000 would give us pause to reconsider our own strategic nuclear posture. He just says the president was

01:02:33.660 reflecting the very high stakes that are in play right now. So, again, he was reckless. And what

01:02:38.600 does he do as we're on the brink of Armageddon? He goes to Delaware. But fear not, because you know

01:02:45.000 who's on the case of Ukraine and the situation there? Randy Weingarten. Yes, America's diplomat,

01:02:52.020 the carer in chief of children, has gone to Ukraine. I don't know why. For a photo op to improve her own

01:03:00.480 image, undoubtedly. She's giving out some books to the Ukrainian children. Okay, whatever. This is her

01:03:07.340 trying to improve her own PR. Meanwhile, you know, back here in the United States, the children she's

01:03:13.120 actually supposed to be, you know, looking out for are at record lows on our test scores, on our mass

01:03:19.540 scores, on our reading scores. They just upped like the nation's report card in absolutely dreadful

01:03:25.120 numbers that she actually is responsible for. She's abandoned all those children. As somebody said,

01:03:29.720 the kids in Ukraine can't go to school because of an actual war. The kids in America haven't been

01:03:33.920 able to go to school because of Randy Weingarten. So you feel better. I'm sure I can see it on your

01:03:39.740 faces. You feel better. You see her comment where she was in Lviv, in the kind of beautiful center of

01:03:46.920 Lviv. And she said, first of all, she kept on saying Putin, which is a very weird pronunciation.

01:03:54.060 She was saying Putin and Putin. And she, the best thing about it was she said, you know,

01:03:58.440 I was invited here. Okay, maybe she's invited. And there's been missile attacks overnight. And

01:04:04.920 the schools are closed and the kids are learning remotely, which I thought was an amazing Americanism

01:04:10.300 in like this. The schools are being bombed. And she's like, yeah, they're learning remotely. I was

01:04:15.200 like, what an amazing, but she actually had this other tweet where she said, you know, there's been

01:04:20.980 attacks in Ukraine and I'm, um, I'm heading to the border to check it out. She should literally tweet

01:04:26.020 that. Oh my God. Can you imagine? Check it out. Who are you? These Ukrainian soldiers are probably

01:04:31.040 like, who is this annoying lady? My God. And why is Mark Hamill from Star Wars here?

01:04:38.320 Why is he?

01:04:40.360 Do we see that?

01:04:41.960 That was the weirdest twist in the Ukraine news. It was like Mark Hamill from Star Wars said that

01:04:50.060 President Zelensky called him personally to ask him to be like a drone, a drone, a drone

01:04:57.280 administrator. Hold on. We actually cut it. Cause I was like, what the hell is happening? It's

01:05:01.420 soundbite, uh, eight.

01:05:04.920 I'm not used to be being contacted by world leaders. You know, I, I'm, I'm a court jester. I'm,

01:05:12.620 I'm a non-essential worker. I do cartoon voices and TV and movies. So I was,

01:05:20.060 honored to be contacted by him. And basically what they were wanting me to do was become a so-called

01:05:27.700 ambassador, which is a glorified word for representative of their army of drones.

01:05:32.360 I was surprised he spoke to me as long as he did. I thought, my gosh, this is a man that has a lot on

01:05:38.040 his agenda. Uh, but he took the time and, uh, who knows? I mean, uh, maybe he's just a Star Wars fan.

01:05:47.100 Oh my God. He's not used to be contacted by casting agents.

01:05:54.740 I mean, apparently it's worse than we knew in Ukraine for Zelensky to be reaching out

01:05:59.540 to Mark Hamill and Randy Weingarten. Like I, like the Vanity Fair cover. I'm not sure

01:06:05.700 this guy's being advised well. I realize he's a former actor. He's a star, but I don't think this

01:06:12.520 is the way to win the hearts and minds. Am I wrong that? Yes. Because what, what is allowing

01:06:18.300 him to fight besides the fact that all Ukrainians are like conscripted to fight? You can't leave the

01:06:24.680 country for mail at this point, but also they all are really enters is what happens when your country

01:06:29.540 gets invaded by a bigger bully next door. You kind of want to fight back and punch them in the mouth.

01:06:33.900 So they're fighting really hard. That's great. But we've also sent them $67 billion.

01:06:37.780 Yeah, that's better. And we could send them really quickly a whole lot more and probably will be.

01:06:43.500 And that is the most important source of funding by far. I mean, we are dwarfing everybody. Can we

01:06:49.200 still say dwarfing? No. Okay. We are little people. And also he needs that lifeline to be open. It's

01:06:59.460 literally going to be a lifeline because it's going to be pretty hard for a lot of Europe to continue

01:07:04.160 supporting Zelensky. Poland will. The Baltics will. The Czech Republic will. A lot of them will.

01:07:09.960 But there's going to be a recession and there already is a recession, but there's going to be a bad one

01:07:14.300 probably this winter with energy supplies coming in. And there's going to be a lot of people starting to

01:07:19.320 get wobbly. So he needs to keep by any means necessary. People are always mocking him for showing up on award

01:07:24.980 shows and doing this in America. And it is ridiculous. It's inherently ridiculous. And also we are giving him

01:07:32.340 all the guns to fight his war. He needs to get. Then you get the rock. Okay. I'm just saying,

01:07:36.820 like, if you want to get somebody who Americans are going to listen to aim a little higher with

01:07:40.420 respect to Mark. I'm like, maybe just a little higher. Is he says he's doing like voiceovers and

01:07:46.260 cartoons. It's a Kim Kardashian practical with his sort of diplomatic efforts there. But I would say that

01:07:55.340 I just briefly agree broadly with what's been said here. I mean, Kiev is what was getting pounded

01:08:00.380 yesterday. This is what 500 odd miles from the Korean Crimean Peninsula. It's, it's, it's a major

01:08:07.040 deal. I mean, this is not kind of a, to the extent there's a strategy being employed by Putin. It appears

01:08:13.160 that the strategy is just a tax of reprisal on civilian centers, not to try and take out any,

01:08:18.440 this is demoralization by targeting civilians. It's grotesque. And at the same time, the one thing

01:08:24.920 that I've kind of continued to be very concerned about is the degree to which I don't hear a lot

01:08:30.360 of public officials like a Joe Biden, who the one thing that we were promised when Joe Biden was

01:08:35.280 running for office is that the adults were back in charge, that we would see a more kind of steady

01:08:39.320 hand at the wheel. And that the rhetoric coming out of this white house perhaps could be anticipated

01:08:44.060 that we could expect it to be a bit more mature. I would expect to see more public declarations.

01:08:49.200 I can appreciate strong support for the Ukrainians, but at the same time, also just

01:08:54.360 the importance, the urgency of bringing an end to the conflict, of bringing some sort of close to the

01:09:01.660 fighting itself, which obviously the United States nor any other European government is, is able to

01:09:09.180 simply declare unilaterally that this can happen. But certainly once you're arming aside in the

01:09:15.560 conflict and providing them with some advice and guidance in other contexts as well, there is some

01:09:21.940 responsibility to try and help bring this whole thing to some sort of resolution. And that resolution

01:09:31.780 may or may not involve the complete kind of territorial integrity of Ukraine being as it was before the

01:09:38.140 conflict began. And to the extent they can encourage Zelensky to accept some sort of compromise,

01:09:44.480 however distasteful it may be to him, that might be in the interest of the Europeans broadly and of

01:09:49.980 the United States of America more broadly.

01:09:52.460 God forbid, God forbid Putin use a strategic nuclear weapon, a tactical nuclear weapon, because

01:09:59.480 now you're going to have NATO countries getting involved. I mean, that is the last thing we want.

01:10:04.960 Something needs to be done before that happens. Let me just pause it there because there's so many

01:10:08.820 other things that I tease that I want to get to. We've spent a good deal of time on Russia.

01:10:12.160 Um, and that is, uh, let's, let's go with this because what you talk about, what does,

01:10:17.800 does Joe Biden walk it back? Does he walk back those comments? Does he walk back? I mean,

01:10:20.880 we always talk about the white house, walking back his comments and on the subject of the president

01:10:25.100 and his messaging, he literally walked back the other day. Every day, it seems there's a sign

01:10:33.100 that sends shivers down the spines of American voters about how well our president is. I mean,

01:10:38.340 from the Armageddon comments and forgetting about the dead Congresswoman the other day to the

01:10:42.340 constant mandering and wandering and losing his train of thought, um, he's mumbling, mumbling now.

01:10:48.440 I mean, it's really genuinely getting alarming and the polls, there was a poll that just came out

01:10:53.040 that shows, um, okay. In August, overall, 59% of Americans said they had concerns about his mental

01:11:00.340 health. Now it's up to 64. All right. It's gone up five points. And guess where all the gains came

01:11:05.200 from? Democrats. Democrats are up. Um, they make up the difference because even they now are seriously

01:11:11.440 concerned about whether our president is all there. This, as video comes out of the president taking

01:11:17.640 questions on, I think it was OPEC and how they're giving us the middle finger after we went over there

01:11:23.460 and did the fist bump. And the answer was pound sand. Um, watch this, watch, watch how he literally

01:11:29.420 backs away from the lectern. No, the trip was not essentially for oil. The trip was about the

01:11:38.640 middle East and about Israel and rationalization of positions, but it is a disappointment. And it says

01:11:45.180 that they're a problem.

01:11:47.140 Are you worried about it?

01:11:48.140 It's a business.

01:11:49.140 Oh, no.

01:11:51.140 Oh, no.

01:11:52.140 What's happening?

01:11:53.140 Oh, no.

01:11:54.140 Oh, no.

01:11:55.140 That's moonwalking. That's what that is.

01:11:57.140 Do you think they'd maybe have smoke bombs and he was supposed to go off and he was just

01:12:01.140 like back away?

01:12:02.140 Like a musician?

01:12:03.140 Wow.

01:12:04.140 That is terrible.

01:12:05.140 That would have been so much better.

01:12:06.140 Wow.

01:12:07.140 Somehow that's worse than the congresswoman thing.

01:12:09.140 You know, we can still see you.

01:12:11.140 Walk backwards, Joe. Walk backwards.

01:12:13.140 I can still see you.

01:12:15.140 Look at him.

01:12:16.140 Watch him.

01:12:17.140 Here he goes.

01:12:18.140 No lectern, by the way.

01:12:19.140 Just standing in front of the scrum.

01:12:20.140 Here he goes.

01:12:21.140 Oh, man.

01:12:22.140 POTUS, walk backwards now.

01:12:24.140 Walk backwards.

01:12:25.140 There you go.

01:12:26.140 You need an aim always to be close enough to come grab you and say, we got to go, Mr.

01:12:31.140 President.

01:12:32.140 I don't even know what it is.

01:12:33.140 I just...

01:12:34.140 That walkie thing, too.

01:12:35.140 It's like on the podium.

01:12:36.140 So many of those clips are him trying to find ways off of podiums, which is kind of troubling.

01:12:42.140 It's not the hardest thing in the world.

01:12:44.140 And Megan, to your point, it's like those numbers are increasing maybe because the president

01:12:49.140 is talking about Armageddon and everyone's talking about the potential of nuclear war.

01:12:53.140 And you kind of want to have a...

01:12:55.140 On the tiller there, don't you?

01:12:58.140 And now, hopefully, we'll be taking this seriously because the buck does stop with the president.

01:13:03.140 And you can't say, well, Mr. President, we're not going to listen to you because you're old

01:13:07.140 and a bit batty.

01:13:08.140 He can make some pretty bad decisions right now.

01:13:10.140 Yes.

01:13:11.140 And it's pretty terrifying.

01:13:12.140 It's not just, you know, 1994 Bill Clinton or something where the world was a little...

01:13:16.140 No.

01:13:17.140 The stakes are very high.

01:13:19.140 Yeah.

01:13:20.140 Say again, Matt?

01:13:21.140 At least he has a very coherent vice president.

01:13:23.140 Ooh.

01:13:24.140 Jeez.

01:13:25.140 I mean, it was near the beginning of the conflict.

01:13:28.140 Like a warm blanket.

01:13:29.140 When Biden was talking openly about assassinating Putin or at least suggesting he needs to go

01:13:34.140 out, he needs to be taken out.

01:13:36.140 Like, what are you doing?

01:13:37.140 Walked back.

01:13:38.140 What are you doing?

01:13:39.140 I think we should cut that clip.

01:13:40.140 We should cut that clip of Biden walking back and that should just be like the theme video

01:13:43.140 for the Biden presidency because that's what his staff does after every single one of these

01:13:47.140 nonsense comments.

01:13:48.140 Walk it back.

01:13:49.140 What?

01:13:50.140 Can you put the Benny Hill music on top of it?

01:13:53.140 Oh.

01:13:54.140 Or the Larry David music.

01:13:56.140 Either one of the two.

01:13:57.140 That one I've got at the ready.

01:13:58.140 Do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

01:14:01.140 All right.

01:14:02.140 While we're on the subject of politics, can we talk about Tulsi?

01:14:05.140 Tulsi?

01:14:06.140 You're going to be shocked.

01:14:07.140 Yeah.

01:14:08.140 Tulsi's no more of a...

01:14:09.140 She's no more of a Democrat than Liz Cheney is a Republican.

01:14:12.140 Take that to the bank.

01:14:14.140 She's leaving the Democratic Party.

01:14:17.140 I don't know if we have this on camera, but she says she's done with them, that they're

01:14:22.140 a bunch of basic grifters.

01:14:24.140 She happens to be coming on the show later this week and coming out with a book as well,

01:14:28.140 but I think she thought this was a good time to announce it.

01:14:30.140 I don't think anybody's surprised, but it's sad to me in a way because we used to have

01:14:35.140 centrist Democrats and that used to be allowed.

01:14:38.140 I think she was chased out of this party, first by the Clintons, then by Nancy Pelosi.

01:14:43.140 She outlined it the first time she came on this show, but she was just too centrist for

01:14:46.140 them.

01:14:47.140 They considered her a threat and they got the hell rid of her.

01:14:50.140 I mean, even though she kind of like Bernie, which isn't all that centrist, but my point

01:14:53.140 is like she wasn't a Clinton acolyte.

01:14:55.140 Absolutely.

01:14:56.140 She was...

01:14:57.140 I mean, she was for the Green New Deal.

01:14:59.140 She was a Bernie bro in 2016.

01:15:01.140 She was vice president of the DNC.

01:15:03.140 She was a person of some heft and universal health care.

01:15:08.140 I think that Tulsi has always been kind of a party of one.

01:15:13.140 And, you know, I, as someone who wrote a book about political independence, I always appreciate

01:15:21.140 people who are themselves independent.

01:15:23.140 But she has an element of like, I'm being heterodox over here.

01:15:26.140 Look at me.

01:15:27.140 New book and podcast coming out near you sometime.

01:15:32.140 She's a little bit over the map right now and seems to be trying to land kind of closer

01:15:37.140 to Tucker Carlson's desk and on her emphases and some of her politics.

01:15:43.140 So I don't know if she was really forced out.

01:15:45.140 Some of her objections are things that a lot of people are objecting to the Democratic Party

01:15:49.140 right now.

01:15:50.140 She very specifically went about how they're too woke and all of this.

01:15:55.140 And I think you see a lot of kind of the Latino disaffection with the Democratic Party,

01:16:00.140 particularly down south in Texas.

01:16:02.140 Part of this is they don't like the cultural messages being sent by the kind of elite top

01:16:07.140 down.

01:16:08.140 And Tulsi has always had sort of that kind of response.

01:16:11.140 She has a different background than a lot of people and is out there in Hawaii and has

01:16:14.140 a little skunk hair thing as well.

01:16:16.140 But I don't know if it's a harbinger of anything besides Tulsi's own idiosyncratic career.

01:16:22.140 Maybe of a third way.

01:16:23.140 I mean, it's definitely kind of third way politics now when you say, oh, you know, Joe

01:16:27.140 Rogan is conservative.

01:16:28.140 Tulsi Gabbard is conservative.

01:16:30.140 There's a number of these people who are, you know, Brianna Joy Gray used to also work

01:16:35.140 for Bernie Sanders.

01:16:36.140 And a lot of these people at the Jacobin magazine, you know, kind of left wing magazine

01:16:40.140 who all want universal health care.

01:16:42.140 They're very big government type people.

01:16:44.140 They don't like wokeness and they don't like American foreign policy when it's George

01:16:49.140 W. Bush or when it's Joe Biden.

01:16:51.140 So you have this kind of third way of people that were conservatives, that many of which

01:16:56.140 were kind of neocons back in the day.

01:16:58.140 I mean, Saurab, our friend Saurab Amari is a version of that, who was calling for the

01:17:03.140 liberation of Iraq and Iran.

01:17:06.140 And now is like the only two people in America that can save the Republic are Bernie Sanders

01:17:11.140 or Donald Trump.

01:17:12.140 That's a definitely an emerging poll in American politics.

01:17:15.140 I don't know what it is, because like I mean, when you said and I think that you're

01:17:19.140 right and I don't know how to reframe it.

01:17:22.140 But Tulsi is a centrist.

01:17:24.140 She's something.

01:17:25.140 Right.

01:17:26.140 She's heterodox in a bunch of ways.

01:17:28.140 And she's kind of on this side and that one and this side and that one.

01:17:30.140 And like Matt, I like political independence, even when I disagree with her.

01:17:33.140 And I vehemently disagree with a bunch of stuff.

01:17:36.140 But I do appreciate the fact.

01:17:38.140 And by the way, that is definitely the doing of Donald Trump, because Donald Trump came in

01:17:42.140 and destroyed the idea of what American conservatism was.

01:17:45.140 And it was kind of backwards casted in a way where American conservatives then decided to

01:17:50.140 create an ideology based on what Donald Trump was talking about.

01:17:53.140 And that was, you know, anti-free trade, you know, anti-immigration, anti-foreign

01:17:59.140 intervention.

01:18:00.140 These are a lot of kind of mixed things that wouldn't have been traditional Republican positions.

01:18:04.140 Pro welfare state.

01:18:05.140 Pro welfare state in a lot of ways.

01:18:06.140 And, you know, I always point this out.

01:18:08.140 But Donald Trump, you know, Republicans put their replacement for Obamacare on his desk

01:18:13.140 and he sent it back saying it was too mean.

01:18:15.140 It wasn't generous enough.

01:18:16.140 And like that's it.

01:18:17.140 That's a very unique thing that's happening in American politics.

01:18:20.140 And Tulsi is definitely someone who's following one of those paths.

01:18:23.140 She is Samoan.

01:18:26.140 So how many seconds until Tiffany Cross says another black person forced out of the Democratic

01:18:31.140 Party by these absurd white men like Obama?

01:18:36.140 I don't know.

01:18:37.140 I'm saying she's complaining about anti-white racism.

01:18:40.140 Yes, she did say that.

01:18:41.140 Yeah.

01:18:42.140 Right.

01:18:43.140 She did.

01:18:44.140 You know, and that's you're not allowed to say that.

01:18:45.140 But of course, we all see it everywhere.

01:18:46.140 I know you guys have been talking about that kind of thing and anti-male chauvinism and

01:18:53.140 all the narratives that we've been seeing about women, this women that Meghan Markle,

01:18:57.140 every single woman who ever succeeded in America is, in fact, a victim.

01:19:00.140 You need to reevaluate your worldview.

01:19:02.140 Meanwhile, it's like guys aren't graduating from high school.

01:19:05.140 Guys aren't getting jobs.

01:19:06.140 Guys are overwhelmingly the ones who kill themselves.

01:19:09.140 I talked about this on the show last week.

01:19:11.140 And we just have to continue saying girl power, girl power, girl power.

01:19:15.140 To me, that's another massive problem that we've got in our society that you guys have

01:19:18.140 been calling some attention to.

01:19:20.140 Well, I think one part of it is just the start.

01:19:23.140 The numbers are just startling.

01:19:25.140 Well, especially when you compare to 20 years ago, the the number of people who are working

01:19:30.140 dudes and women as well when they're starting to go down recently.

01:19:33.140 But but it's been a flight away.

01:19:35.140 Like, you know, 20 years ago, something like 55 percent of teenage 16 to 19 year old males

01:19:43.140 were working.

01:19:44.140 She did. And now that's like 33 percent.

01:19:46.140 It's going down and it goes down in every single cohort up until age 55.

01:19:50.140 And then those dudes are working more.

01:19:53.140 And that's interesting.

01:19:54.140 And it's also interesting that and this is male and female to people, young people will

01:19:59.140 describe themselves as being feeling like too injured, either actually or psychologically

01:20:07.140 to be able to work.

01:20:09.140 These are like the average 27 year old describes themselves basically as being more disabled

01:20:15.140 than the average 57 year old, which says to me that there's something really weird going

01:20:19.140 on with our conception of work.

01:20:21.140 If we don't inculcate a work ethic anymore, you know, we're half the people don't have

01:20:28.140 jobs before the age of 25.

01:20:29.140 Now, I when did that happen?

01:20:31.140 Used to be two thirds of them did.

01:20:33.140 So, yes, a lot of that is part of the male feeder thing.

01:20:37.140 And that's a trend line that's been increasing.

01:20:40.140 There's a couple of books out.

01:20:41.140 Richard Reeves and Nicholas Eversat and other people are looking at this.

01:20:45.140 But the flight of men from work is a bad thing in and of itself.

01:20:51.140 I don't I'm not one who wakes up in the morning and says, you know what?

01:20:54.140 We got to defend men right now.

01:20:56.140 I want them to, you know, get up off their ass and go to work, too.

01:21:00.140 But we also should recognize when a problem is staring us in the face.

01:21:03.140 And this one absolutely is.

01:21:05.140 I think that the impulse has to be to address ourselves to people's needs, people, individuals,

01:21:12.140 whatever the whatever the gender, whatever the race or ideological background, the remedies

01:21:17.140 to the problems that people are facing in their lives and their particular communities,

01:21:20.140 the structural impediments to their success, to building wealth, to being trained and properly

01:21:25.140 equipped for the kind of jobs that are likely to be available in our in our in our communities,

01:21:30.140 I mean, in our economy going forward, those things are generally going to be gender and race agnostic.

01:21:35.140 That has something to do with family structure, for sure.

01:21:37.140 I mean, if you're a single parent household, whether you're a man or a woman, things are going to be slightly more daunting for you.

01:21:42.140 But if we could start to think about people's needs and not their identities in the particular communities that they are said to belong to,

01:21:51.140 I think that would go a long way towards helping to improve outcomes for more and more Americans and and allowing us to actually fix problems.

01:22:00.140 It would.

01:22:01.140 But we haven't been able to get out of our way on that.

01:22:03.140 We're going a different way.

01:22:04.140 Yeah, we're going a different way.

01:22:05.140 And I will give you a great example of how right after this quick two minute break, more with the fifth column guys coming up.

01:22:10.140 And by the way, last time we talked about pumpkin spice latte and whether I was for it.

01:22:14.140 I'm going to try my first one right here with the guys.

01:22:17.140 We'll find out.

01:22:18.140 Had a big debate about it last time when they were on.

01:22:20.140 You guys will be with me and I'll tell you how it goes.

01:22:22.140 Stand by.

01:22:23.140 So we're less than a month away from midterms and the get out the vote effort is in full swing.

01:22:32.140 And Michelle Obama's group, when we all vote, that's her initiative, is working with the BLK dating app.

01:22:42.140 The BLK dating app is designed for black singles looking to date.

01:22:46.140 And they have a new video out that is meant to inspire young black singles, not only to date, but to vote and warn that if you do not vote, you do not get to vuck.

01:22:59.140 Here's a clip.

01:23:05.140 Hey.

01:23:08.140 Oh, my God.

01:23:37.140 Oh, my God.

01:23:38.140 Can I tell you the best?

01:23:40.140 Oh, my God.

01:23:41.140 If I abstaining from voting, abstain from having sex with those people.

01:23:46.140 I'm never going to vote again.

01:23:48.140 The exact opposite.

01:23:50.140 Oh, my Lord.

01:23:51.140 Here's the greatest.

01:23:52.140 I listened.

01:23:53.140 You know, my team puts together these great packets for me when you guys come on and when everybody comes on.

01:23:58.140 And sometimes I listen to them.

01:23:59.140 So you hit Microsoft Word, you download as a Word document, then you hit read aloud.

01:24:03.140 And you got to hear that song read on the read aloud.

01:24:05.140 Oh, my God.

01:24:09.140 No voting.

01:24:10.140 No voting.

01:24:11.140 No voting.

01:24:12.140 No voting.

01:24:13.140 No touching.

01:24:14.140 So here's some of the lyrics.

01:24:15.140 Don't stop now.

01:24:16.140 Stuff my ballot box again.

01:24:17.140 But my homegirl, my homegirl, though, put the buy and buy in partisan politics.

01:24:23.140 Be so nasty.

01:24:24.140 Make me want to flirt.

01:24:25.140 You show you how to be a poll worker.

01:24:27.140 Legs in the air.

01:24:28.140 I don't care.

01:24:29.140 Anyone can get it.

01:24:30.140 Universal health care.

01:24:31.140 If you want to come before the deadline, come in this jacuzzi, gerrymander in this coochie.

01:24:39.140 Oh, Trina.

01:24:41.140 So, I mean, I feel like they're uplifting the dialogue.

01:24:47.140 They're really.

01:24:48.140 Yeah.

01:24:49.140 What do we make of this this beautiful attempt to reach out to young black voters?

01:24:54.140 I think if certain people have decided that they're going to abstain from voting and they're

01:24:59.140 perhaps abstaining because they say to themselves, you know, I don't really know enough about this

01:25:02.140 race.

01:25:03.140 I want those people to stay home.

01:25:04.140 And as I think we've observed, because we had a conversation about this on our members only

01:25:08.140 podcast, you should totally subscribe.

01:25:10.140 So there's a certain category of American who probably should vote.

01:25:16.140 And if they're not inspired to go out and vote, like, let's not encourage them.

01:25:21.140 Let them stay home.

01:25:23.140 You don't know what's going on.

01:25:24.140 You're not interested in politics.

01:25:25.140 The only way to incentivize you to actually get out and cast a ballot is to promise you sexual

01:25:30.140 intercourse with those people.

01:25:33.140 Let's not.

01:25:34.140 Let's not.

01:25:35.140 I think that the quality will be improved, well served by keeping you at home.

01:25:40.140 We should reward that.

01:25:41.140 Can I tell you, Roger?

01:25:43.140 He came out with a this is his headline in his piece.

01:25:47.140 Democrats colon gerrymander this coochie, which literally is a line from the song.

01:25:53.140 So he's not wrong.

01:25:54.140 And he writes it's this song is urging women to hold out on men who are not registered to

01:25:59.140 vote.

01:26:00.140 Not even registered.

01:26:01.140 If a white supremacist had depicted black people like this as sex mad animals, we would

01:26:07.140 never hear the end of protest.

01:26:09.140 And we shouldn't because it's totally degrading.

01:26:12.140 But this was made by black liberals for black people.

01:26:15.140 Then he goes on.

01:26:16.140 We're a long, long way from Smokey Robinson and Otis Redding.

01:26:19.140 That's for sure.

01:26:20.140 And goes on from there.

01:26:22.140 It's not a bad point.

01:26:23.140 Like this is how this group thinks this is how I'm going to appeal to young black people

01:26:27.140 by putting these morons on screen and threaten no access to the coochie unless you register.

01:26:34.140 But could you imagine, you know, I imagine myself as a journalist interviewing somebody

01:26:40.140 coming from the polling place and me saying, you know, who did you vote for?

01:26:44.140 And they're like, I don't know, this guy.

01:26:45.140 Why did you vote for it?

01:26:47.140 I just I can't.

01:26:49.140 I can't.

01:26:50.140 I can't have sex unless I vote.

01:26:52.140 No, I'm super funny, but I just I heard they're great.

01:26:57.140 But I don't care now.

01:26:58.140 I'm going to bring my sticker.

01:26:59.140 I voted sticker and I'm going to be gone for about six hours.

01:27:02.140 That's not what I want to encourage.

01:27:04.140 I don't care about the actual optics of the video.

01:27:07.140 It's like, and I will probably disagree with Rod Dreher in the sense that I think some

01:27:11.140 of the lines are actually quite funny.

01:27:13.140 A few.

01:27:14.140 But yeah, I am somebody who does not want to encourage more people to vote.

01:27:20.140 I think that's a bad idea.

01:27:21.140 I think people should be more informed.

01:27:23.140 And when they're informed, they should vote.

01:27:25.140 I'm not a person who likes Australia, which forces everybody to vote by by by law.

01:27:30.140 And, you know, there's a lot of people and we talked about this on the podcast the other

01:27:33.140 day.

01:27:34.140 Not voting is a choice, just the same as pulling the lever for a Republican or Democrat.

01:27:39.140 Not voting can be a choice.

01:27:40.140 And I often don't vote not because I'm misinformed or I don't know anything about the candidates

01:27:44.140 because I do know about the candidates.

01:27:46.140 And that's why I don't vote.

01:27:47.140 And so I have this idea that not voting is always a bad thing.

01:27:51.140 I disagree.

01:27:52.140 Although if you don't vote, you don't have the chance to comically write in the names

01:27:55.140 of all of your friends.

01:27:56.140 You're all like the district court judge things that you should never vote for.

01:27:59.140 Someday I'm going to be a judge, aren't I?

01:28:01.140 I'm trying, man.

01:28:02.140 I get you guys on there every time.

01:28:04.140 All right.

01:28:05.140 Let me let me shift gears to something equally controversial.

01:28:07.140 Equally.

01:28:08.140 OK, this is the Daily Wire happened Monday.

01:28:11.140 There is an award winning multimedia journalist who none of us has ever heard of named David

01:28:16.140 Levitt.

01:28:17.140 He claims award winning.

01:28:19.140 I don't know what that means, mom.

01:28:21.140 He claims that he's written for CBS, Yahoo, Examiner, et cetera.

01:28:26.140 And this is a person who called child protective services on Virginia State Senate candidate

01:28:33.140 Tina Ramirez.

01:28:34.140 Why, you say?

01:28:35.140 What did Tina do?

01:28:36.140 Did Tina hurt her child?

01:28:37.140 Did Tina abuse her child?

01:28:38.140 Did Tina do something that would make any sane person call child protective service on her?

01:28:42.140 No.

01:28:43.140 Tina said, quote, I teach my daughter real American history.

01:28:48.140 I refuse to join the radical left campaign to erase history and wished her followers a happy Columbus Day.

01:28:56.140 So this loser goes on to tweet.

01:28:59.140 Can someone please call child care services on Tina Ramirez, who is teaching her child to be a racist?

01:29:07.140 Then he apparently decided to make the call himself and complained about the long wait time to speak to someone at the hotline tweeting.

01:29:17.140 The Virginia State hotline for child abuse has a 10 plus minute hold and is experiencing high call volumes for the 14 callers ahead of me.

01:29:24.140 This is absolutely unacceptable.

01:29:26.140 How many people try to report child abuse and hang up?

01:29:29.140 How many children were continued to be abused?

01:29:31.140 Many, sir, because of you tying up their line.

01:29:35.140 You're jamming up the lines.

01:29:38.140 You are jamming up the lines and you're encouraging other people to do it as well.

01:29:42.140 Some young child might have been in trouble seeking help.

01:29:46.140 And you and your asshole followers are harassing this woman on the Internet.

01:29:50.140 I will say that Columbus Day, probably my least favorite holiday because of the ridiculous kind of culture war antics that tend to dominate the holiday.

01:29:59.140 It's annoying.

01:30:00.140 Whatever kind of particular political historical narrative you choose to embrace, whether you imagine that Christopher Columbus was just this bold, chaste explorer who went to America and found it and we should celebrate him forever and ever.

01:30:13.140 Amen.

01:30:14.140 Or that the noble savages were here living peacefully in bliss before anyone got here and have never done anything terrible or wrong.

01:30:20.140 And the reason we should regard them as the first peoples is because God gave them the land and they never had to fight any sort of violent conflict or genocide one another or anything else horrendous.

01:30:29.140 If everyone were equally upset about the fact that some people in the past have done awful things and therefore perhaps shouldn't be celebrated, I would be OK.

01:30:39.140 But instead, you get this kind of selective outrage in one direction or the other that I find like plenty preposterous and nonsensical.

01:30:48.140 And I wish we would just be a little bit more thoughtful.

01:30:50.140 I think there's so many interesting things to talk about.

01:30:52.140 Maybe if not rebranded Columbus Culture War Day, we could rebrand it like Discovery Day.

01:30:59.140 It was the day that just shut up and enjoy the free day off there.

01:31:02.140 And that was interesting.

01:31:03.140 If you're going to tax something, does that have to be a freaking holiday?

01:31:06.140 People need their days off.

01:31:07.140 They enjoy having the school day off, having a day off from work, like pick something else to pick on.

01:31:12.140 You know, like what good was done by taking that day back as a work day and a school day?

01:31:16.140 Here's the ending of my little story.

01:31:18.140 Ramirez, the candidate, tweeted back to this guy, mighty bold and liberal of you to lecture a Hispanic mother with a black daughter on racism.

01:31:27.140 What's next? Are you going to lecture me on women's rights?

01:31:29.140 And then, of course, the capper from Levitt.

01:31:31.140 Having a black child doesn't make you any less racist.

01:31:34.140 Yes, it does.

01:31:35.140 It absolutely does.

01:31:36.140 No, it doesn't.

01:31:37.140 That's crazy.

01:31:38.140 Do you think David Duke is like, I'm a black child.

01:31:44.140 I'm going to adopt a black or marry a black woman and I'm David Duke.

01:31:47.140 No, it makes you less racist.

01:31:48.140 I think it does.

01:31:49.140 Camille, can you back me up on this one?

01:31:50.140 They're just your beard.

01:31:51.140 They're your racist beard.

01:31:52.140 That's insane.

01:31:54.140 I remember a long time ago, I had a conversation about this where Camille said something similar

01:31:59.140 when somebody said, like, you know, just because you say, like, oh, I have a black friend.

01:32:02.140 It doesn't make me like it doesn't make you less racist.

01:32:04.140 And Camille's argument is a matter of fact, it does.

01:32:06.140 It seems a little.

01:32:07.140 They tend not to have friends who are black.

01:32:08.140 It's true.

01:32:09.140 They don't like black people.

01:32:10.140 Yeah.

01:32:11.140 This is not true.

01:32:12.140 It's just a fact.

01:32:13.140 It's an empirical fact.

01:32:14.140 We've got a round back.

01:32:15.140 Abby has gone and gotten me the pumpkin spice latte from Starbucks.

01:32:18.140 Now, I have never had a pumpkin spice latte in my life.

01:32:21.140 However, I confess that my hairstylist brought me an iced coffee with the pumpkin cream on

01:32:27.140 the top.

01:32:28.140 And it was delicious.

01:32:29.140 You guys remember we talked about this the last time I'd never had one.

01:32:32.140 All right.

01:32:33.140 Now, and refresh me on your stances when it comes to pumpkin spice anything.

01:32:37.140 I'll go down the line.

01:32:38.140 Matt.

01:32:39.140 Libertarian, do what you like.

01:32:41.140 I'm not going to join you.

01:32:43.140 The only hate crime that I love seeing prosecute.

01:32:47.140 I'm not a fan of the pumpkin spice latte.

01:32:52.140 I think it kind of tastes like cough syrup.

01:32:54.140 It's just.

01:32:55.140 So you've tried it.

01:32:56.140 I have tried it.

01:32:57.140 Yes.

01:32:58.140 Have you guys tried it?

01:32:59.140 Yes.

01:33:00.140 I don't.

01:33:01.140 Yes.

01:33:02.140 Yes.

01:33:03.140 All right.

01:33:04.140 Well, I've never tried it.

01:33:05.140 I've never tried the actual latte.

01:33:06.140 I'm going to try it now.

01:33:07.140 Standby.

01:33:08.140 Okay.

01:33:09.140 It's like Robitussin.

01:33:10.140 Spit it out.

01:33:11.140 Right at the camera.

01:33:13.140 I'm I get what you're saying with the medicinal flavor there.

01:33:16.140 Yeah.

01:33:17.140 I got to say the the pumpkin spice iced coffee.

01:33:21.140 It's better.

01:33:22.140 It's better.

01:33:23.140 And it's lower in calories.

01:33:24.140 I asked Sarah who does my hair.

01:33:25.140 How many calories in this bad boy?

01:33:27.140 And she said 150.

01:33:28.140 That's not bad.

01:33:29.140 You can like that's sort of like a breakfast.

01:33:31.140 You can get away with that.

01:33:32.140 And by the way, I don't know what what's in there.

01:33:34.140 It's like crack.

01:33:35.140 You're wide awake for the rest of the day.

01:33:36.140 You're like, I'm ready to go.

01:33:38.140 So if you want to suck up there, it's like not totally consistent with the intermittent

01:33:41.140 fasting.

01:33:42.140 But for a treat every once in a while, I would stand by that latte.

01:33:45.140 I don't know.

01:33:46.140 I see what you're saying with the Tussin.

01:33:48.140 The important thing about the pumpkin spice and you mentioned, Megan, the word Karen before

01:33:53.140 is that this is the pre Karen.

01:33:55.140 Right.

01:33:56.140 Before there was a Karen.

01:33:57.140 It was the pumpkin spice lady in the Ugg boots.

01:33:59.140 That's why people started hating it.

01:34:01.140 It was like it was a very particular type of person who went and got the pumpkin spice

01:34:06.140 latte kind of soccer mom with the Ugg boots.

01:34:08.140 And now we've just it's become Karen.

01:34:10.140 So.

01:34:11.140 Well, I don't even think that if that counts, if it's iced.

01:34:14.140 I mean, that's a total.

01:34:15.140 That's ice.

01:34:16.140 Karen.

01:34:17.140 She doesn't have any of the same characteristics as the original Karen.

01:34:24.140 There's so many delicious caffeinated beverages that you can get at Starbucks or any place

01:34:29.140 that the attention that is given to the pumpkin spice latte completely undeserved.

01:34:34.140 I think it is a subpar beverage.

01:34:36.140 And I support the chai tea latte.

01:34:38.140 Although I believe that saying chai tea is a little weird because it's.

01:34:41.140 I support.

01:34:42.140 I support the chai tea.

01:34:43.140 I love Camille's like methodical businesslike approach to this.

01:34:47.140 Just corporate America.

01:34:48.140 Like this is what I support.

01:34:50.140 He will be voting for that.

01:34:51.140 By the way, there's a peppermint cream that comes out soon, too.

01:34:55.140 Never too soon for that one.

01:34:57.140 Guys, what a pleasure.

01:34:58.140 As always, find them at thefifth.substack.com.

01:35:04.140 And you won't be sorry you did.

01:35:07.140 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:35:09.140 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:35:12.140 Other greetings.

01:35:13.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:15.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:16.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:21.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:23.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:24.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:25.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:27.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:29.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:29.240 Bye-bye.

01:35:30.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:31.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:33.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:35.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:37.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:38.140 Bye-bye.

01:35:40.140 Bye-bye.

The Megyn Kelly Show - October 11, 2022

Kardashian Narcissism, Kanye's Anti-Semitism, and Nuclear ＂Armageddon,＂ with The Fifth Column Hosts ｜ Ep. 409

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