The Megyn Kelly Show - Karmelo Anthony GUILTY of Murder - Megyn Kelly's Expert Legal Breakdown, with Holloway, Eiglarsh, Aronberg, Merchant and More

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00:00:57.080 connexontario.ca. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at

00:01:03.540 New East. We're going live today at 3.05 Eastern Time because there is a verdict in the Carmelo

00:01:15.880 Anthony case and we are about to receive it. We're told to expect it around 2.05 Central Time,

00:01:22.340 which is right now. There are no cameras inside of this courtroom, so no one has any camera feeds.

00:01:28.040 We are just awaiting news from inside the courtroom where it will be relayed as soon as the jury

00:01:33.480 issues their verdict. It only took three hours for them to come to a conclusion. And, you know,

00:01:42.800 you never know what a jury is going to do. So, you know, it's sort of a fool's errand to go and 0.92

00:01:49.380 try to predict them, but whatever, I'll do it anyway. There's just no chance in my mind that

00:01:55.000 they are not going to find him guilty, Carmelo Anthony. I could be wrong. Juries sometimes do

00:02:00.840 surprising things, but I will be shocked, shocked if this is anything other than guilty on the

00:02:06.740 murder count. As we discussed on our Sirius XM show earlier, they added a manslaughter charge

00:02:14.520 today, and that could change things considerably for the better for Carmelo Anthony because it

00:02:19.320 would be much better for him to be found guilty of that than of murder. But there is not evidence

00:02:26.320 of manslaughter in this case. There is only evidence of murder. And the manslaughter charge,

00:02:35.740 if that's what they consider and find him guilty on, I think will just be either a compromise

00:02:41.680 verdict because they had a disagreement on the jury, or they just felt sorry for Carmelo Anthony

00:02:47.760 because he's a 17-year-old who reportedly has not been in trouble with law prior to this

00:02:52.280 and didn't want to put a 17-year-old in jail for murder.

00:02:55.860 It would have to be that.

00:02:57.140 But I'm sorry.

00:02:57.820 That's what he did.

00:02:59.480 That's what he committed.

00:03:01.060 This was murder.

00:03:04.320 It was premeditated murder.

00:03:05.860 He went into that tent on the Frisco grounds for this high school track meet.

00:03:14.180 He meandered into the wrong tent intentionally.

00:03:17.440 He knew he was not supposed to be there.

00:03:19.420 It would be the equivalent of, you know, we're watching the basketball series in New York here.

00:03:24.120 The Spurs don't go sit on the Knicks bench.

00:03:27.600 You don't go over into opposing teams territory in the middle of a sporting event in which you are competitors.

00:03:33.700 Everyone knows that.

00:03:35.500 He was doing something intentionally provocative, and he knew it.

00:03:39.820 He was told by multiple kids who were in the tent, get out.

00:03:45.040 You need to leave.

00:03:46.940 They weren't quite as rude as I just put it.

00:03:49.940 And he wouldn't.

00:03:51.460 He knew he was there to stir something up.

00:03:54.380 Why would he go into a rival team's tent with a knife in his bag?

00:04:01.260 I'm sorry, but it looks very much like this kid had some dastardly deed on his mind.

00:04:08.280 And could have been Austin Metcalf, could have been Hunter Metcalf, could have been anybody.

00:04:12.260 but he set himself up for this entire event and he never testified so we not we didn't even get

00:04:19.960 to hear from him they didn't do the jury the courtesy of having him explain his self-defense

00:04:25.080 defense of course the defendant has a fifth amendment right not to testify but when you are

00:04:29.680 alleging you're not guilty because it was self-defense it's extremely rare not to put

00:04:35.640 the defendant on the stand and it's not like they had some amazing eyewitness who was right next to

00:04:41.080 him who could testify. Austin attacked him. Austin punched him in the face. Austin had him by the

00:04:46.420 neck, therefore vitiating the need for Carmelo Anthony to actually give testimony. That didn't

00:04:52.120 happen. The defense witnesses, by all accounts, were weak, didn't really see much, didn't have

00:04:58.800 eyes on the tent, or came in too late to really be of much help. So it's a very interesting

00:05:05.680 question why they didn't put him on the stand. Obviously, they did not believe he'd make a good

00:05:10.500 witness, and one wonders why. What was it that they saw on the defense team that led them to

00:05:18.020 that conclusion? It's 3.09. We are continuing to await word from the jury that is in. For those

00:05:25.360 of you just joining us, we've just gone live on YouTube on the Carmelo Anthony verdict, which is

00:05:30.940 in. It has not yet been read or announced, but it is in. The jury has reached a verdict three hours

00:05:37.260 after they were given the case.

00:05:39.740 We've got some of our Kelly's Court team here on standby

00:05:44.260 who are going to come in and talk to us about this

00:05:47.000 as we await the verdict and then for reaction afterward.

00:05:50.120 They include Phil Holloway and Mark Eiglarsh.

00:05:53.120 Both handle not only civil cases,

00:05:55.140 but criminal cases as well, including criminal defense.

00:05:58.660 And, you know, Phil, we featured some commentary

00:06:01.120 from you in our AM Update podcast this morning

00:06:03.680 on the oddity of Carmelo Anthony not taking the stand.

00:06:10.380 I mean, we're all just reading tea leaves here,

00:06:12.160 but what do you think a three-hour deliberation period tells us?

00:06:17.460 His goose is cooked, Megan.

00:06:19.460 Three hours means that the jury was not hung.

00:06:22.940 They didn't have any questions.

00:06:24.320 My concern that I expressed that there could potentially be the issue

00:06:29.680 of a stealth juror trying to sneak on the jury,

00:06:32.580 I expressed that in your AM update that you just referenced.

00:06:36.220 It doesn't look like that happened.

00:06:38.020 It looks like the jury was united.

00:06:40.280 Three hours is very short, which means they didn't really have a whole lot to talk about.

00:06:47.020 They all probably were pretty much on the same page.

00:06:49.920 We did learn today that there was a jury instruction.

00:06:54.000 The judge gave the jury the option of choosing manslaughter versus murder.

00:06:59.600 Now, I suppose it's possible we could hear a manslaughter verdict, although I think that's

00:07:04.400 very unlikely. The evidence in this case did not show any sudden provocation by the alleged victim

00:07:12.560 or anything like that that would be sufficient to warrant manslaughter. It didn't reach any of

00:07:17.940 the other, I think, legal benchmarks for a manslaughter verdict. Sometimes judges give

00:07:22.940 those when they are requested by the defense sort of out of an abundance of caution.

00:07:27.420 But I seem to think that this quick verdict, combined with the fact that there are no real questions, none of the questions at all that we know of, tells me the jury was a cohesive unit.

00:07:40.300 They are united. They are unanimous. And I think that it means that Carmelo Anthony is about to be convicted of first-degree murder and spend the rest of his life in prison.

00:07:50.280 mark can you talk about the difference between manslaughter and murder and you know why it was

00:07:57.860 significant that they added the manslaughter count as an option for the juror today for the jury yeah

00:08:02.760 i i would have had them add that if i was representing him and i also wouldn't put him

00:08:06.340 near the stand so i disagree with anybody who said that they should have put him on the witness stand

00:08:11.000 he would have been eviscerated even if the verdict is adverse which i expected to be adverse

00:08:14.960 you don't he would have been destroyed on the witness stand so he they needed to make the

00:08:20.540 argument that this was self-defense and see if the jurors buy it and i don't think that they did

00:08:25.980 the question is whether it should have been manslaughter versus murder and i think there's

00:08:31.040 a strong argument to be made there murder we all know requires intent he wanted to kill him

00:08:36.000 i read the statute in texas it appears it mirrors what we have here and that is

00:08:40.660 a reckless act, an indifference to human life. So he did the act of stabbing the victim,

00:08:47.720 but didn't intend necessarily to kill him. He didn't intend not to kill him. It was a reckless 0.75

00:08:53.620 indifference. And I think that that's the strongest argument. Now, I don't know. You got a Texas jury

00:09:00.280 and not many people are talking about this, but we do know that the law precludes either side

00:09:07.880 from getting rid of jurors based upon the color of their skin. That's an issue so much so that

00:09:15.100 the law had to be created to stop attorneys from doing this. In this particular case,

00:09:19.900 the prosecutor struck the three potential black jurors. And so there are no black jurors seated

00:09:28.300 at all, which I'm merely saying increases the chances of the prosecution getting what they want. 0.87

00:09:35.360 Hmm. I mean, the question here is whether this jury is going to look at Carmelo Anthony

00:09:45.260 at 17 years old and say, I'm not finding him guilty of murder. I'm not doing that.

00:09:52.400 Manslaughter is a reasonable alternative. And I mean, I can see, not to be sexist about it,

00:09:58.720 Phil, but I could see women, mothers in particular, possibly veering that way because he is so young

00:10:04.440 and there's been no evidence that he's some sort of career criminal.

00:10:07.000 Yeah, I actually had that in a case once where a jury reached a compromise verdict

00:10:12.620 because there was the evidence when I was a prosecutor,

00:10:17.140 the evidence of this person's guilt, it was an armed robbery case,

00:10:19.980 but the evidence was overwhelming, and the defendants were all very young.

00:10:24.200 In fact, this particular one we severed the trials was 17 years old,

00:10:28.440 and a mother basically ran out of the jury room, fell to her knees,

00:10:34.240 and started sobbing, saying that she felt so terrible about basically sending a teenage boy

00:10:41.100 to prison. So yes, your point is valid. People think about the effect of their verdict. They're 0.94

00:10:48.200 not supposed to actually know. In other words, the sentencing aspect is really not supposed to be

00:10:53.920 part of the case in chief, but jurors are not stupid. They know what happens to people they 0.68

00:11:00.160 convict of serious crimes like armed robbery and murder. So yeah, I mean, that could happen.

00:11:06.020 I do think it's rare, Megan. I think that it's unlikely that there's going to be any of that

00:11:12.360 sort of hesitation. I think that the jury is going to dismiss out of hand the manslaughter option.

00:11:20.000 I think they're going to focus on all of the testimony. And look, there were witnesses just

00:11:24.780 recently, as recently as yesterday, and I post about this on my X account, there were witnesses

00:11:29.080 for the defense who, on cross-examination, admitted that Carmelo Anthony was in the wrong

00:11:36.620 and he was the aggressor. So this whole thing, from beginning to end, when you take the-

00:11:41.500 Yeah, the defense witnesses, just to reiterate.

00:11:43.280 Yeah, the state's witnesses did a good job for the state, but the defense witnesses also did a

00:11:48.920 good job for the state, because on cross-examination, a lot of times they just admitted

00:11:53.660 that, yeah, Carmelo Anthony was in the wrong. And in other cases, the prosecutor did a good job of

00:12:00.460 pointing out that the witnesses were not in a position physically to see the events that they

00:12:07.880 were in court trying to testify for. So I honestly scratched my head wondering if maybe some of this

00:12:16.060 money that was raised during the Give, Send, Go fundraiser. It's almost $700,000 now. It seems like

00:12:24.980 maybe some of that money should have been spent perhaps on hiring additional attorneys or people

00:12:30.500 who could go and investigate and interview these witnesses for the defense so that they would know

00:12:36.460 what they were going to say in court. Because it seems to me like the defense team was entirely

00:12:41.720 caught off guard by a lot of the testimony. And they can't change the facts. They just can't

00:12:47.980 change the facts if they had a team of lawyers. I still don't know that the facts change. I don't

00:12:53.120 disagree with either one of you that jurors, in spite of being instructed that sympathy should

00:12:57.080 play no role, they absolutely do consider it. They know the difference between what first-degree

00:13:03.840 murder would yield versus manslaughter, at least in concept. So they do consider that. It wouldn't

00:13:10.300 surprise me if they immediately said manslaughter. And I asked the question to each of you. Okay. And

00:13:16.060 I know Megan, you're pretty entrenched in that position, but you know, is there at least a

00:13:21.480 possibility in both of your minds? And this is what I would tell the jury that when he stabbed

00:13:26.880 one time, not repeatedly, not like in the neck area, not by announcing I'm going to kill you, 0.95

00:13:34.320 which would clearly evidence what he's intending to do.

00:13:36.560 But one jab, which again is criminal and I'm not excusing, but one jab, which happened

00:13:43.600 to land in a really bad place, causing the death, whether he intended to kill him or

00:13:49.600 was it a reaction after he was pushed?

00:13:53.020 Can I answer first?

00:13:54.440 That's reasonable doubt.

00:13:55.600 That's your show, Megan.

00:13:56.300 The mere provocation of it, the mere daring, go ahead, lay hands on me.

00:14:00.640 Not a good fact.

00:14:01.300 He wanted it.

00:14:02.160 Agreed.

00:14:02.640 No.

00:14:03.000 He was looking for a confrontation, and he showed up there with a knife in his bag, which also suggests he was there to have some sort of confrontation with someone.

00:14:12.240 We don't know that.

00:14:12.920 I don't know.

00:14:13.260 He didn't testify, so we didn't get to testify.

00:14:14.720 We don't know that.

00:14:15.360 He intended to do the act. 0.87

00:14:16.680 He intended to plunge that knife in his heart.

00:14:17.400 We don't know that, but I can infer it. 0.96

00:14:19.700 He may not have intended to kill him, but he intended.

00:14:22.380 He knew he had a deadly weapon in his hand, and he intended to plunge it into his heart.

00:14:27.440 We agree.

00:14:28.040 Therefore, it is murder.

00:14:29.560 So whether he intended to kill is irrelevant.

00:14:32.600 Did he intend to do the act that caused the death?

00:14:35.560 Absolutely he did.

00:14:36.600 Yeah, I think that you're conceding my point.

00:14:39.080 I think that if he didn't intend to kill him, that the act itself, which he should be held responsible for, he should be found guilty for sure of manslaughter and maybe even murder.

00:14:50.440 I wasn't there during the trial.

00:14:52.040 But if he didn't intend to kill, but he intended to commit that act and that resulted in a death, then one would argue that that's reckless as a person.

00:15:01.920 the standard. No, I think that's murder still, Mark. A reckless disregard for human life is

00:15:09.560 enough. That's enough. And that's what he showed by shoving that knife into the heart.

00:15:14.500 You have to presume that someone, the law actually says you have to presume that someone intends the

00:15:21.780 consequences of their actions. That's a presumption. And so to my knowledge, there's nothing in this

00:15:27.260 case that would overcome that presumption. So, you know, look, I don't think I can, I don't think

00:15:33.620 I'm going to concede your point, Mark. I think that I can concede that that is a possibility.

00:15:39.160 It may be, maybe he didn't intend to kill, but I think he did. I think he intended, I think it's,

00:15:44.840 I'm certain that he intended to do the act and the law presumes that he intended the consequences

00:15:50.460 of that act. So I don't think there's any way to put this square peg into this legal round hole

00:15:56.100 to come up with a manslaughter.

00:15:58.920 Now, the jury could do it.

00:16:00.520 They could absolutely be some kind of compromise,

00:16:02.760 but it would not be consistent with the law

00:16:04.860 and the facts as I understand them to be.

00:16:07.240 Yeah, because you tell me, Phil,

00:16:09.440 but isn't it, when you have a manslaughter case,

00:16:13.280 it's heat of passion.

00:16:15.360 You mean after being shoved?

00:16:17.700 You mean after being shoved?

00:16:19.580 No, that's my whole point.

00:16:21.680 That's not heat of passion.

00:16:23.120 The classic example is the husband walks in

00:16:25.380 on the wife having sex with someone not him and does something to harm one or both of them like

00:16:32.560 that's your incense it doesn't excuse it but sure that's a manslaughter that that's not what this

00:16:39.100 was the guy showed up there by the way dave erenberg now joining us dave great to see you

00:16:43.080 former palm beach i'm not gonna get much help with this prosecutor there's no way

00:16:47.140 there's no heat of passion in in him showing up there phil

00:16:55.040 with a knife in his bag, running around being provocative, saying, go ahead, lay hands on me,

00:17:00.580 see what happens. And then when somebody does, shoving a knife in his heart. 0.98

00:17:04.760 Yeah. And all that's true. And you can't go and instigate an altercation and claim that it is 0.98

00:17:12.480 somehow self-defense. You can't instigate an altercation and escalate an altercation and

00:17:19.680 then try to claim the benefit of a reduced charge because you were the instigator and you showed up

00:17:26.960 with a knife. Whether it's legal to have that knife, by the way, in the state of Texas is not

00:17:31.520 the point. I carry a weapon legally all the time. But if I use that weapon illegally to murder

00:17:37.240 somebody, I'm still guilty of murder. So this whole thing about him legally possessing the knife

00:17:42.620 is a red herring that you heard parroted by lots in the media, by the folks outside the courtroom

00:17:49.380 and by the defense counsel. So that issue right there is just a complete red herring,

00:17:54.600 but this is not manslaughter. Let's address the knife. It troubles me. I would like to know

00:18:00.640 why the hell were you carrying that knife around with you? But what I won't do is what both I think

00:18:05.820 of you are doing. And that is speculate that he had that knife there because he was looking to

00:18:11.360 kill. I will tell you that I currently have a case where my client had a knife on him. And when he

00:18:17.080 was put in a headlock by certain people he was forced to use his knife and the question was

00:18:21.780 why did he have that knife and he happened to have that knife because he uses that knife for fishing

00:18:26.620 and it was in his fishing bag and that's all absolute truth i don't know maybe he carries

00:18:32.380 that knife with him all the time just in case because he's had issues or whatever i don't know

00:18:38.220 but to say that he brought the knife there with the intent to plunge it into somebody's heart

00:18:43.320 megan that is not supported by the evidence mark are you saying that carmelo anthony first of all

00:18:47.940 no let me respond let me respond phil no i'm not silly boy come on first of all i i don't i don't

00:18:53.500 have to prove that if i'm the prosecutor i do not have to prove that he showed up there with

00:18:56.500 the knife with the intent to kill i don't have to prove that so i'm saying my argument is you

00:19:00.600 could make the argument well you you okay fine let's let's stick to what the jury actually has

00:19:06.040 to find in order to reach a murder conclusion of guilty and that does not require you showed up

00:19:11.340 there with the intent to murder. My point in introducing that was as a prosecutor, I could

00:19:16.320 make that case easily, very easily. I think he did go there, frankly, to kill that day. I do.

00:19:22.260 I believe he showed up in the opposing team's tent. He was intentionally provocative. He dared

00:19:26.280 them to lay hands on him. And I think this kid has a chip on his shoulder. We didn't get evidence

00:19:30.460 because they didn't put him on the stand about why he's so fucking angry. Excuse me. But I think 0.92

00:19:35.280 it's because he's got a chip on his shoulder because I've seen his family try to racialize

00:19:39.560 this entire case without any evidence you're right about that and so this boy obviously grew

00:19:45.480 up in that family and i'll bet you he's got a fair amount of racial grievance on his shoulders too

00:19:49.920 yeah and i also bet you mark because we haven't been told because they keep juvie records

00:19:54.380 sealed but i'll bet you there is something in his past that we just didn't get to know about

00:19:59.140 because he was a minor so to keep it intellectually honest i'll concede you may be right but what also

00:20:05.080 may be right is he didn't show up to kill he showed up to run a track meet and it rained and

00:20:10.400 he was looking for a place to shield himself from the rain and he saw someone that he recognized he

00:20:15.760 goes under that tent and then all of a sudden the alleged victim says to him things that he found

00:20:22.600 offensive i'm not justifying his actions so keep the hate mail i'm merely saying that it could be

00:20:28.840 consistent with then he gets hit or pushed as it was testified to and then he reacts at a minimum

00:20:36.540 manslaughter maybe murder but why not manslaughter that's all i'm saying dave i'm sure you're not

00:20:42.300 going to help me here when you bring in dave but well dave that's all i mean you dave you know as

00:20:48.180 well as i do as well as mark does and phil that uh even if everything mark just said is true in

00:20:54.820 that last hypothetical, it's still not manslaughter. You cannot respond to someone laying

00:21:00.820 hands on you, literally just laying hands on you, even if it were a push, which is the best

00:21:06.480 evidence they had. The most aggressive witness for the defense said he shoved him. Yeah. You

00:21:12.520 cannot respond to a shove with deadly force. I don't disagree, by the way. Period. I don't

00:21:15.960 disagree. So how is it manslaughter then? I mean, Megan is right. Manslaughter is reserved for

00:21:21.540 things where you catch your wife in bed with another man and it's extreme emotional distress.

00:21:28.260 This is not extreme emotional distress. This is a pushing under a tent during the rain and you

00:21:33.960 pull out a knife and then kill someone is murder. It's not manslaughter. Now, look, if you want to

00:21:39.920 blame people, blame the defendant and his lawyer because I've never seen, and Mark, maybe you can

00:21:45.280 correct me on this one, I've never seen a claim of self-defense where the defense lawyer doesn't

00:21:51.080 put on the defendant under the stand. I mean, it's like 101. You have to put the defendant on

00:21:56.240 the stand to say that, yes, I was in reasonable fear of my life. He didn't do that. Yeah. I don't

00:22:01.460 disagree with you. And by the way, I'm pulling it up. I'm not crazy. I read the statute. Okay.

00:22:06.160 So the manslaughter is defined in Texas. A person commits manslaughter if he or she

00:22:12.480 recklessly causes the death of another individual. Was he not reckless as he plunged that knife

00:22:21.600 into an area on this boy after being shoved? Could the jurors make that finding? I think they can.

00:22:28.720 And reckless means the person was aware of, but consciously disregarded a substantial

00:22:34.640 and unjustifiable risk that death could occur he's not an expert in stabbing and killing people

00:22:42.820 he stabbed this kid and it happened to kill him could be the argument so it doesn't take an expert

00:22:48.980 to know where someone's heart is i mean let's be honest that could be he didn't he didn't

00:22:54.800 well the testimony was his stomach in his leg in his arm go ahead he had the knife open in the bag

00:23:01.700 and his hand was in the bag, you know, and this was before any alleged putting on of hands occurred.

00:23:08.800 And so, look, I appreciate, always appreciate the zealous advocacy and the arguments,

00:23:17.500 the creative arguments of my colleagues and of my friends and my lawyers who are my buddies around

00:23:22.520 the world, including Mark and Dave. But I think that as creative as that argument is, and maybe

00:23:30.200 it's right. Maybe that would have been the only thing you could have argued to the jury. And

00:23:33.940 sometimes as a defense lawyer, you have to just argue the best thing that you have, even when it 0.96

00:23:39.360 sucks. And I just think that the facts of this case were terrible for the defense. I would be

00:23:45.100 curious to know if there was ever any contemplation of there being any kind of plea deal. It seems

00:23:50.060 like no. It seems like there was never a plea deal that was offered. I don't know if the defense even

00:23:54.580 asked for one. But in any event, I'd like to say that I feel like maybe the defense team did the

00:24:01.360 best they could out of what they had. But to be honest, what I saw was lawyers that were maybe

00:24:08.200 not quite as prepared as they needed to be, because as I keep going back to this, they just

00:24:12.940 seem to not have prepared their witnesses. It seems like they didn't even talk to them very

00:24:19.940 much ahead of time or if they did it maybe they forgot what they were going to say because there's

00:24:24.820 so many things that happened on the witness stand that just seem inconsistent with um what you would

00:24:31.180 what you would have expected out of this defense team so um anyway phil let me show you um sound

00:24:36.880 bite 12 this is court tv's cody thomas describing the prosecutors versus the defense when it came

00:24:44.840 to the witnesses and witness prep. Listen here, Sat 12. And then the defense began their case

00:24:50.560 Saturday afternoon with three witnesses. Of course, there was a couple of students that

00:24:54.700 they called. One thing I thought stood out then, Matt, on this Saturday session was that one of

00:24:59.040 these students, the defense attorney, clearly stated that they had not spoken before. He got

00:25:03.620 up there and he asked him, you know, we've only spoken for two minutes right here in the hallway

00:25:06.920 before we came in. So there was no witness prep. And we know that's a huge factor that goes into

00:25:11.220 trials that we cover here at Court TV. And he's asking this kid questions to which the

00:25:15.620 kid kind of doesn't really have answers to or is kind of negating the narrative that

00:25:19.220 the defense is trying to go down. And then once the prosecution gets up there and cross

00:25:22.740 examination, the prosecution says, we've talked for more than 10 minutes. In fact,

00:25:26.900 I was texting your father last night, which would have been Friday night.

00:25:29.620 So that was interesting to me that the prosecution seemed to have a better

00:25:32.820 relationship with this defense witness. Yeah, that's insane.

00:25:36.900 Yeah, that's what we talked about on the MK True Crime Show today.

00:25:40.960 That is malpractice, and that would cause jurors to quickly find somebody guilty of the main charge rather than consider any alternative when an attorney is that inept and doesn't know what the witness is going to do and how they're going to be eviscerated.

00:25:56.820 I was horrible. And folks, if you hadn't checked it out, Dave and I got into this very discussion

00:26:03.420 on today's episode of the MK True Crime Show. And I'm sure we'll come back to it as well once we

00:26:10.980 know what the verdict is. And by the way. Just to interrupt you quickly, Phil, just to interrupt

00:26:14.080 you quickly, forgive me. The jurors are entering the courtroom right now. Oh, my. Oh, my. And

00:26:18.460 have you seen the crowds going outside the court? It's getting heated outside the courtroom, too.

00:26:23.120 out in the you know it's this they the the new black panthers are there was there any which is

00:26:29.220 never helpful was there any testimony at all that race ever came into play in terms of epithet

00:26:36.200 nothing right no no it's the whole thing i mean there are some derelicts on the internet who have

00:26:44.400 introduced race but the whole thing has been driven by this dominique alexander who is the

00:26:49.360 spokesperson for the Carmelo Anthony family who continues to try to racialize this case,

00:26:55.920 try to say that Austin Metcalfe was a white supremacist, which is a defamatory lie.

00:27:01.860 There is zero evidence of that. He just keeps injecting this because he thinks he's going to

00:27:06.960 nullify the jury and the verdict. And it hasn't, you know, so far that hasn't caught hold and

00:27:12.500 there's been zero evidence of it in court. Here he is. This guy's got a long history of his own

00:27:17.540 involving some very questionable behavior with young children and hurting them.

00:27:22.960 We'll get into it at another time, but that's their family spokesperson.

00:27:27.500 So I'm sorry, Phil.

00:27:28.560 So the jury's filing in. 0.99

00:27:30.260 The New Black Panthers are outside.

00:27:32.020 There are protests, as there have been.

00:27:33.480 There are many citizens of the area who we put on camera yesterday who there was a black

00:27:39.840 woman saying, we protect our own.

00:27:42.160 That's what we want. 0.85

00:27:42.760 But there are no black jurors here. 0.85

00:27:44.260 Now, I don't know, you know, whether there are white jurors who have that same attitude.

00:27:50.240 They did try to flesh out whether there was any racial bias in voir dire for any juror, white or black.

00:27:55.180 And presumably these folks made it because neither the defense nor the prosecution believed that they harbored that kind of animus.

00:28:01.820 Go ahead, Phil.

00:28:02.760 Yeah, I was just talking about exactly what you're seeing outside the courthouse. 0.92

00:28:07.300 Just from a 10,000-foot level, let me just say it makes me sad as a lawyer and someone who's been a criminal justice professional now for about 40 years to see our justice system breaking down like this to this faction versus that faction, this racial group versus that racial group. 0.90

00:28:28.900 Justice should be blind. 0.95

00:28:30.560 It should be determined by what happens inside the courtroom with competent, reliable evidence. 1.00

00:28:36.440 We have witnesses that are white. We have witnesses that are black. You know, the fact that you've got a jury made up of 12 white individuals is is not doesn't surprise me because it's a majority white jurisdiction, as I understand it. 0.53

00:28:53.880 And you're not entitled to a jury that looks like you. You're entitled to a representative cross section of the community. 0.82

00:29:00.560 And by the way, there were plenty of minorities.

00:29:03.780 Okay, stand by, Phil. Stand by.

00:29:05.780 This, per Fox Dallas, the judge is now on the bench.

00:29:09.480 The judge is warning the courtroom against any outbursts.

00:29:14.480 Everyone is now standing.

00:29:16.300 The jury, again, has entered the courtroom already.

00:29:20.040 So we are seconds away from a verdict in the Carmelo Anthony case,

00:29:24.460 awaiting the actual readout from the court clerk

00:29:27.440 and the exchange with the jury as it happens.

00:29:32.000 Stand by, hold on, just watching for a refresh on my phone

00:29:35.860 as we continue to await.

00:29:38.720 Yeah, we're all struggling with looking at the camera

00:29:40.960 versus looking at Twitter on our phone.

00:29:42.560 He's been found guilty.

00:29:44.220 Murder.

00:29:44.740 Guilty of murder.

00:29:45.500 There we go.

00:29:46.560 A Collin County jury has found Carmelo Anthony guilty of murder

00:29:49.160 in the death of Austin Metcalf.

00:29:51.740 No surprise.

00:29:53.560 There was no other reasonable choice.

00:29:56.520 There just wasn't Dave Aaron. This I mean, this is as open and shut as they come.

00:30:01.740 This is. And it was the right verdict, because when you go to a track meet, you don't end up you shouldn't end up in a body bag.

00:30:08.300 I mean, this is what happened to the days when you have school fights and now everyone brings a weapon and it's just ridiculous. 0.73

00:30:14.440 And one thing that Phil said that just want to clarify, I don't think the jury was all white in traditional sense.

00:30:19.960 Apparently, there were several Asian jurors. And so there were no black members of the jury.

00:30:23.840 And although that to me is unfortunate because it means that this verdict will not be accepted the way that it should, but as far as on appeal, I don't expect that to be a subject of appeal to be overturned because, as Phil correctly says, there's no quota how many people of different races you have to have on a jury as long as the procedures were fair, meaning the judge did the right things and everyone, the process played out.

00:30:48.220 That's all. But as far as the evidence, the evidence was just overwhelming. I mean, the fact that the defendant didn't even take the stand tells you enough, that they knew that the evidence was going to cook him if he did take the stand, too.

00:31:00.060 And they thought they would just roll the dice on just putting the prosecutors to their burden of proof. Well, prosecutors got a quick guilty verdict.

00:31:06.900 The issue for me, Carmelo Anthony found guilty. For those of you just joining us, Carmelo Anthony, who was 17 years old when he committed this crime, plunging a knife into the chest of 17 year old Austin Metcalf for honestly, no reason.

00:31:20.840 It was they weren't even having a fight. It was a minor dispute over whether Carmelo should have been in that tent. And just FYI, there are 12 jurors plus six alternates.

00:31:31.020 We don't know exactly which one of these made the jury and which ones are the alternates,

00:31:34.480 but it's a white woman in her 40s, white man in his 40s, white man in his 20s or 30s, white woman.

00:31:39.320 There is an Asian woman.

00:31:40.740 There's a white or a Hispanic man, a white or Hispanic woman, another Asian, a Hispanic or Indian man,

00:31:46.080 a Middle Eastern woman wearing a head covering, an Indian woman.

00:31:49.400 So you're right, Dave, they're not all white.

00:31:51.280 There are some minorities, but no black jurors. 0.99

00:31:53.380 Megan, the issue for me has always been, I always like take the defense's story and I say, let's say it's true. 0.62

00:31:59.440 it comes back to proportionality let's say everything you're saying is true but the victim

00:32:07.140 didn't have a weapon you can't bring a knife to a verbal assault and a pushing fight the only thing

00:32:15.460 that got bruised was the ego of the offender and and and i would argue to the jury he didn't have

00:32:22.580 to wait for a punch because a punch could have killed him we know that that could happen but

00:32:27.260 you know what? Most jurors ain't buying that. They'll think about their own family members

00:32:31.420 having a dispute with someone. And let's say your own family member pushes someone for whatever

00:32:36.960 reason. That shouldn't warrant a death sentence. And I think these jurors, you know, thought that

00:32:42.880 through very quickly and said, yeah, even if we believe what he's saying, we can't do anything

00:32:48.300 other than fine for the most serious charge. I mean, what we're hearing now from inside the

00:32:54.040 courtroom. I just want to make sure I have the citation correct. This is from CBS 11 News

00:33:00.840 reporter J.D. Miles reporting that Carmelo Anthony has broken down in tears. You can hear

00:33:07.940 inside the courtroom. His bond has been extinguished. He's now officially in the custody

00:33:13.060 of the Collin County Sheriff as he has been found guilty of this dastardly crime. Justice was done,

00:33:21.260 phil holloway uh it's it's unfortunate it's sad i really do as with any crime involving a minor

00:33:28.720 i do have some blame for the parents i want to know what happened in that house why how did you

00:33:35.540 raise a 17 year old who was this indifferent to the value of human life they say that the human

00:33:41.200 brain doesn't really fully understand the concept of risk and a risky behavior until it matures to

00:33:49.920 about the age of 25 or 26. So anytime we see, you know, young people engaging in this kind of

00:33:56.920 behavior, something caused Carmelo Anthony to make the decision to take this long, I guess,

00:34:04.160 five-inch knife into a track meet where it had no business being, whether it was legal or not.

00:34:09.560 Somebody or something caused him to make that choice. So did he not understand the risk? And

00:34:14.580 something caused him to escalate a tense situation as well once he came up under that tent and by

00:34:22.080 refusing to leave. And so, yeah, I think there is a component of how people are brought up,

00:34:28.540 what parents teach their children, how parents teach their children to sort of keep themselves

00:34:34.400 out of harm's way, how to not escalate situations, maybe just walking away and not bowing up and

00:34:41.360 thinking you're Billy Badass is the best way to go. So yeah, I think there's some real questions

00:34:46.820 about that. But it is sad anytime somebody loses their life. And it's also sad when you have a

00:34:53.060 young person whose terrible, terrible life choices cause them to then essentially lose their life or

00:35:00.600 at least spend the rest of it in prison. Yeah, he killed two people. He killed two people. It was a

00:35:05.400 murder-suicide in a way. And he destroyed his family and everything. And now we're going to

00:35:08.940 have to deal with all the unrest outside the courthouse i'm curious dave well can i ask you

00:35:14.200 guys something this is just breaking right now um they that the court is now going immediately

00:35:19.040 as the word being used into the sentencing that's what i was going to ask you about like what should

00:35:23.680 he get five to ninety nine years apparently but can you explain that does that mean we're going

00:35:28.620 to get a sentence right away is that how it works in texas so that's my question to all of you to

00:35:33.060 to phil's point we know again not to excuse now we're just talking mitigation he's been found

00:35:38.540 guilty and there's a wide range of what he could sentence i was curious to know what the lawman's

00:35:42.880 thought was the former prosecutor dave if you are if you've got a range of five to 99 years

00:35:48.760 what is the appropriate sentence which is the case how old is the defendant was he 17 but wait

00:35:53.760 wait before we get to the appropriate sentence i glarsh what let's talk about my question which

00:35:58.060 is are do you know phil or dave whether that means immediately into the sounds like yeah that's what

00:36:04.160 It sounds like a sentence right now. It sounds like and I've actually had that.

00:36:07.460 It's used to be fairly common, particularly when the law mandates, you know, a life sentence.

00:36:13.420 And in this case, I think Texas law mandates a life sentence.

00:36:17.340 It mandates that he's eligible for parole because of his age.

00:36:20.900 Death was not an option. So this is like the only possible it mandates five to ninety nine.

00:36:26.120 So I don't think it is. It doesn't mandate a life sentence, but it's I mean, it would it would be effectively it effectively would be one.

00:36:34.160 think it's a 99-year sentence. We can double check that. I had maybe misread that, but in

00:36:39.020 any event, what I had read was it was life. But in any event, the judge heard the testimony.

00:36:45.340 We'll double check.

00:36:45.820 The judge heard the testimony, and the judge heard the evidence and saw the evidence and

00:36:51.000 I think has a pretty good idea of what he's going to do, so that explains it.

00:36:55.220 Megan, this is a real law and order judge. You saw during his questions for the jury,

00:36:59.240 He wanted to make sure that he weeded out all jurors who didn't believe in American exceptionalism.

00:37:04.840 So I suspect he's going to throw the book at Carmelo Anthony.

00:37:08.100 I would say be closer to the ninety nine than the five.

00:37:11.260 He can't give them life without parole. 0.93

00:37:14.320 You have to at least have an eligibility to have parole at some point since he's a juvenile.

00:37:19.800 But he's going to get decades in prison.

00:37:21.980 I just don't know how long I would be interested to seeing what happens next as far as the testimony in favor of a lengthy sentence.

00:37:29.220 from the victims' families and those on the mitigation side.

00:37:33.140 I don't know, though, if any of that will sway the judge.

00:37:35.980 I think the judge has a number in his head, and he's going to go with it.

00:37:39.940 Are you telling me that the family of Austin Metcalf, like right now,

00:37:45.040 is going to have to take the stand and do a victim impact statement, like immediately?

00:37:49.380 Seems insane. I couldn't do it as a lawyer.

00:37:51.940 I couldn't get up there and...

00:37:53.380 Well, how does it normally work?

00:37:55.000 I mean, isn't there normally like a break between the verdict?

00:37:58.500 Yes, I've never seen that.

00:37:59.980 But Texas is very different.

00:38:01.460 It's 5 to 99 or life. 0.99

00:38:03.840 That's the correct answer.

00:38:05.580 So, you know, I guess the defense could have asked for some type of pre-sentence investigation

00:38:10.440 and they could have come back to do it another day.

00:38:12.760 But this judge, being true to form, has apparently decided he wants this whole thing to be over

00:38:20.260 and done with right now.

00:38:22.160 And so that is unusual.

00:38:24.120 I've not seen that pronounced sentence in Florida.

00:38:26.640 Yeah, that's very unusual because it puts the families through a lot.

00:38:29.840 I mean, what do you see?

00:38:31.640 I mean, like as a career prosecutor, Dave, when the defendant was a minor at the time of the crime, does a judge typically more often have some sympathy for the defendant?

00:38:45.860 I mean, I don't want to call him a kid because he's not.

00:38:48.580 And he's certainly an adult now.

00:38:51.140 Yeah.

00:38:51.660 He's 18 or 19 now.

00:38:53.240 This only happened last year.

00:38:54.360 So I think he's probably 18 years old.

00:38:55.960 But do you think this judge will have any softness in the sentence, given the age when the crime was committed?

00:39:02.900 Not this judge, Megan.

00:39:04.140 This is different than the Mackenzie Schirrilla case, which we discussed on MK True Crime, because there you had.

00:39:11.260 From that Netflix special, The Crash.

00:39:12.700 Right. 0.90

00:39:13.180 She she killed two people and it was shown to be intentional.

00:39:16.640 But because she was 17, she was given 15 years to life, and it was concurrent for the two deaths, which meant that she could conceivably get parole after 15 years, which is way too light.

00:39:29.780 But here you're talking about one death that was awful, and I think you have a different judge, though, a much tougher judge, and I think he's going to throw the book at him.

00:39:37.020 And, yes, it could be 5 to 99 or life with the possibility of parole at some point, but I think it's going to be up on the high digits perhaps.

00:39:45.940 I could see 50 years here. I could see that. Yeah, I could see that. I could this. Why are you making that face? Why? Megan, Megan, Megan, Megan. Come on. First of all, it was horrible what he did. Let's make that very, very clear. I'm not in any way. But let's compare this to other cases. He's 17 years old. The facts and circumstances are a little unusual.

00:40:11.120 Doesn't everybody concede that on this panel for totally just looking at it from a mitigation perspective?

00:40:18.360 Shouldn't he be treated a little differently than some other cases?

00:40:22.460 That's all.

00:40:23.500 You know, let's let's start with that.

00:40:25.480 Can we at least start with that?

00:40:26.500 I don't if I were the prosecutor, I would get up and I would start with Austin Metcalf, not with Carmelo Anthony.

00:40:31.620 Well, he's never going to walk down the aisle.

00:40:33.800 We're going to go to college.

00:40:35.340 We're never going to have a child.

00:40:36.960 His parents are going to constantly grieve him.

00:40:38.660 Oh, and by the way, I mean, not for nothing, and this isn't admissible, but the parents of Austin Metcalf tried to reach out to the family of Carmelo Anthony.

00:40:55.900 There was a press conference.

00:40:57.720 Remember, Dominique Alexander was there with Carmelo Anthony's parents.

00:41:03.120 And Jeff Metcalf, he showed up.

00:41:07.000 He wanted to hear what they had to say. And this cretin, Dominique Alexander, shamed him trying to say he had done something like disrespectful. His son was dead. It was just so wrong. Like they've been treated so wrong, the Metcalfs, by the Anthony's from the start. 0.93

00:41:27.200 And if I were the judge, he may not be able to consider any of that, but he may be aware of just how disrespectful the whole family has been, soup to nuts of this poor Metcalf family.

00:41:38.680 And all I can think of is Hunter Metcalf, who's probably sitting in that courtroom right now, the identical twin, who held his dying brothers in his arms and wailed, I can't do this.

00:41:51.180 I can't do this.

00:41:52.980 He didn't want it.

00:41:54.980 He couldn't – he was bargaining the way we all do when we lose somebody.

00:41:58.260 Yeah, he should get a significant sentence.

00:42:00.200 So I would be prepared to throw the book.

00:42:01.780 I'd be fine with that.

00:42:02.780 Well, you know, Mark, really?

00:42:03.480 I just feel like what kind of an –

00:42:04.560 On a 17-year-old.

00:42:05.520 What kind of callous person shoves a knife into another 17-year-old's heart with no provocation?

00:42:11.940 He should get decades for that.

00:42:13.060 There's no question.

00:42:13.840 Well, to your point about should he be treated differently?

00:42:15.720 Should he be treated differently?

00:42:16.640 Proportionality on sentencing too.

00:42:18.020 I mean –

00:42:18.260 To your point about should he be treated differently because of his age,

00:42:20.920 Well, I would submit that Texas law already treats him differently because if he gets the life sentence that I think he's going to get, he has to be eligible for parole.

00:42:31.420 So life without parole is off the table.

00:42:34.380 If he were an older person, then that would have been on the table.

00:42:37.500 So the law already takes a lot of this into account, and it gives the judge a lot of sort of discretion here.

00:42:43.400 And so his age is already kind of factored into this.

00:42:46.860 So the judge is going to make the decision based on the facts of this case and what's fair and what's just.

00:42:52.060 So, Phil, you're saying life without parole or anything without parole, that's not an option because he was a minor when he came into the crime.

00:42:57.800 Also, Megan, under Texas law –

00:43:00.160 Well, Texas law generally allows that an inmate has to serve at least half the sentence or 30 calendar years, whichever is less, before they're eligible for parole.

00:43:08.820 So if he gets the 50 years, like I can imagine, he'd be eligible for parole in 25.

00:43:13.720 But because of the case law, yes, because he was 17 as a juvenile, he won't get life without parole.

00:43:21.780 He'll get a chance to get out early.

00:43:24.100 This just in via the Daily Mail.

00:43:26.660 Carmelo Anthony and his mother began to sob after the verdict was read to the courtroom.

00:43:30.780 Judge John R. Roach asked if the court needed to take a break.

00:43:34.560 Anthony's lawyer asked if he could take him somewhere before the judge reminded him that he is now guilty and in the custody of the sheriff's office.

00:43:41.880 They don't mess around down in Texas.

00:43:44.720 Evidence for the sentence will be heard when the court returns.

00:43:47.900 Anthony's mother continued to weep as she leaned over her seat.

00:43:51.740 Other members of the Anthony family were seen wiping away tears.

00:43:55.460 Austin Metcalfe's parents smiled while their family and friends cried happy tears.

00:44:00.060 I'm sure this is the first smile they've had in a long time.

00:44:04.980 Carmelo is now back in court.

00:44:06.920 The jury will return, and we will begin the sentencing part of the trial now, says—this is from inside the courtroom reported by—I'm not sure who she reports for.

00:44:23.300 Oh, she's with the Daily Mail, Marianne Martinez.

00:44:25.060 Megan, can I make a point about that?

00:44:26.200 She reports that he's back in now.

00:44:27.840 The jury's going to return.

00:44:28.840 We will begin the sentencing part of the trial now.

00:44:30.600 Jurors have to decide between 5 and 99 years in prison.

00:44:32.760 And I don't know if this is true, but we heard that there was an election to have the jury decide the sentencing as opposed to the judge.

00:44:41.480 I don't know whether that's true, but that's apparently why we're going to do this right away because it's – the jury's there.

00:44:47.460 If it's the jury's task, the jury's not done with its work.

00:44:50.000 Go ahead.

00:44:50.220 So look, to your – you're reading, you're checking X or you're checking the internet, and you're checking to see what the reporters who are there in the courthouse and who are on the scene are reporting.

00:45:01.240 this i think makes the case for live streaming of virtually all trials okay in the united states

00:45:09.260 there's no reason that i can think of no good reason not to have live streamed this not to

00:45:14.960 have allowed the public inside the courtroom to see this is a highly controversial case whether

00:45:21.280 it needs to be or not it is and so i think that the better plan the better idea would be to have

00:45:28.320 cameras in the courtroom, to have people able to watch and see for ourselves in real time what's

00:45:34.800 happening. That way, we're not left to the descriptions given to us by journalists, which

00:45:40.740 a lot of them are doing a great job, but they may not always be accurate. We need to be able to see

00:45:45.020 in real time what's happening, but in particular, we need to see the evidence. We need to hear

00:45:50.520 this witness testimony. The people outside that courthouse need to hear the witness testimony

00:45:56.740 because otherwise, false narratives take hold, media narratives take hold, and the whole thing

00:46:03.400 just spins out of control. If you have cameras in the courtroom, then we can eliminate most,

00:46:11.000 if not all, of that nonsense, and we can take the public inside and see what we say on our show,

00:46:18.180 that sunlight is the best disinfectant, okay, when it comes to these things, and it's time

00:46:22.680 for all courts to go ahead and get into the 21st century and allow us to see what happens in their

00:46:28.440 courtrooms um this just in carmelo anthony's mother is taking the stand now jesus as the

00:46:36.880 sentencing phase of his murder trial i can't imagine defense waived opening statements

00:46:41.840 mark i can't either because i'm thinking of first and foremost i'm thinking um god of everybody my

00:46:47.620 head spinning. But as a lawyer, you put so much energy into a case. And then all of a sudden,

00:46:55.060 the jurors give the worst news possible to you. Now, I don't know if the lawyers were expecting

00:47:00.300 it. But at a minimum, you're putting all that energy towards trying to get an acquittal.

00:47:05.860 Alternatively, you're thinking, you know, manslaughter. And then all of a sudden,

00:47:10.320 boom, the worst case scenario. And now you have to get up and now fight for his life.

00:47:14.600 it is insane i i just they would never do that here i've never heard of anything like that

00:47:21.180 it's just cruel you're in florida i know you know megan just so the audience knows it is

00:47:26.800 interesting that in texas that the defendant before trial has the right to elect whether

00:47:30.740 they want a judge or a jury to impose a sentence so i was under the assumption that it's the judge

00:47:35.220 that decides the sentence i think it's a smart move for the defense to ask the jury to do it i

00:47:40.100 I think we'll get a better sentence by the jury than by this real tough judge.

00:47:44.800 And that's why they're going forward right now.

00:47:47.820 I mean, it must be true, right?

00:47:49.620 Because why else would they have called the jury back in and be taking witness testimony, you know, mitigation and so on from the mother that the jury must must be must have the decision in its hands?

00:48:02.500 Again, we're not that familiar with Texas state criminal procedure, but we're trying to read what we the people we trust and get and glean what's happening.

00:48:09.980 That's what we believe is happening, that they've elected to have the jury decide the sentence, that the mother's back on the stand or on the stand.

00:48:17.080 And now, I mean, I don't know.

00:48:20.140 You know, I went to law school in Texas and I had actually there was a time where it was top of my mind that Texas had the option for jury sentencing.

00:48:29.520 It had escaped me. And like Dave, I was just assuming it was going to be the judge.

00:48:33.260 but it does make sense for the defense to seek jury sentencing because to the extent there may

00:48:40.080 have been no disagreements on guilt or innocence. Now you're going to have to have everybody with

00:48:46.540 maybe a different point of view on what's the appropriate sentence now that we know that he's

00:48:52.000 guilty of the crime. And so it could be a while. I don't know that you're going to see a three-hour

00:48:56.960 verdict on sentencing okay but now listen to this fox dallas reporting that carmelo's mother was

00:49:05.080 asked if carmelo regrets his behavior she said yes he does regret it please have mercy on my son

00:49:12.980 she's saying he's remorseful she's the only witness the defense plans to call that just

00:49:18.420 what okay put him on the stand okay no no no listen every single person my client ever said

00:49:25.780 god bless you too i'd consider calling okay his life is on the line you got one person the mom

00:49:32.600 that's all you got not a singer teacher not the coach not nobody friends family you've got to put

00:49:39.940 people on there to humanize him also you could put him on the stand in this case i know a lot

00:49:45.620 of times you don't because you don't want to ruin the appeal but here remember it's not a question

00:49:49.480 whether he did it we know he did it the question is whether it was self-defense he could go out

00:49:53.700 there and say i regret everything that happened i wish it hadn't happened and that won't hurt his

00:49:57.720 appeal right but i think it shows he can't be cross-examined dave yes yes and that's why he

00:50:02.640 won't that's why i won't do it but at this point you don't want to do it all right no he wouldn't

00:50:06.900 have he won't he cannot capture the right effect even if he feels it even if he sleeps at night

00:50:12.840 and he cries himself to sleep every night which may or may not be the case there's no way on the

00:50:17.740 stand, you can count on him connecting to what he did, the life that he took and the impact that it

00:50:24.740 had on the family, it would be so difficult. And so any attempt up there would undermine what the

00:50:30.440 jury, as a defense lawyer, you're trying to go for to get the jury to feel. You can't put them

00:50:35.720 up there. You can't. I mean, I'm sure that these, I was reading you the list of the people on the

00:50:40.540 jury. There are men and there are women. I am sure that they will be moved by his mother begging

00:50:47.580 for mercy but austin metcalf's mother is probably going to take as she should yes yes and that i

00:50:55.980 mean this is texas guys you know it's texas we are not in san francisco we're with the most leftist

00:51:04.380 jurors texas justice i learned that's a hard way i took a case in lubbock and i ran the facts by

00:51:11.660 people in the community they all said they would give my client life and then they said they'd

00:51:16.240 give me time for representing him yeah that's what i learned those are my people yes yes i was

00:51:24.000 meant to live there um yeah so that's the problem is they're gonna undoubtedly fail

00:51:31.240 hear from austin's parents one or both of them and and maybe maybe from sweet hunter

00:51:37.600 his identical twin oh boy think of the power of that he looks exactly like him oh my goodness

00:51:44.420 Yeah, it's almost like hearing from beyond the grave.

00:51:48.300 Oh, my gosh, that's going to be crazy.

00:51:50.260 It's not a good – I mean, that's what I would do.

00:51:52.500 It's not good for – it doesn't bode well for Carmelo Anthony.

00:51:56.480 This jury may not give him life if it's up to them,

00:51:59.460 but he's going – I think we can all agree that he's going to be in a Texas prison

00:52:06.680 for the foreseeable future, if not all of his life, certainly most of it.

00:52:12.000 It's what a sad, sad, tragic case all the way around.

00:52:14.960 Oh, wow.

00:52:15.620 Well, listen to this, you guys.

00:52:16.960 Listen to this.

00:52:18.460 That no one will be taking the stand for the prosecution because they also rested.

00:52:23.200 The defense rested after Carmelo's mom in the penalty portion of this case.

00:52:30.460 The state also just rested.

00:52:32.160 What?

00:52:32.720 So the jury now will decide the punishment.

00:52:35.300 I know.

00:52:35.800 I don't get that.

00:52:37.360 Mark, what's happening?

00:52:37.880 in trial you're limited on what you're allowed to say right you can call the mother up for

00:52:44.260 to identify to to do certain things but she can't go all out on what the loss means because then

00:52:51.240 you're appealing to sympathy sentencing that's exactly what it's for she should be up there

00:52:56.700 family members should be up there explaining what the loss meant i can't imagine why they're not

00:53:01.140 doing it right i don't i genuinely don't get why they wouldn't put one of the metcalfs on the

00:53:06.640 Maybe they're exhausted. I mean, this has been an emotionally draining trial. And now you got to go and do the penalty phase right away. I don't know. They should she should have had it lined up. And I'm sure maybe they just decided they put up one witness on the defense side and let it just play out. But I think, yes, you should put up the twin. I mean, you got to go for what the family wants, which is clearly they want this guy to be in prison as long as possible. So how do you leave money on the table like that? I think they should put up more.

00:53:34.900 I know. I mean, I know it's all relatively recent, but all I can think is of the Idaho case, the Idaho four. It's like that murder was as gruesome as they come. But the family members did take the stand. They were there during the penalty phase. We talked about it at the time.

00:53:57.760 And, you know, I feel like the family probably would have done its duty and spoken on behalf of Austin.

00:54:05.980 Maybe the prosecution said there's no need.

00:54:08.340 Trust me.

00:54:09.480 You know, I don't know.

00:54:12.320 Or maybe they just don't want to have a hand in it.

00:54:14.380 You know, remember, Erica Kirk was asked about whether she wanted this to be a death penalty case.

00:54:22.100 It is a death penalty case against Tyler Robinson.

00:54:23.980 And she said, I don't want to weigh in on that because as a Christian woman, she just didn't want to have a hand in possibly leading somebody to their death.

00:54:33.400 And that, you know, that could also, death penalty is not on the table here, but it's possible the family just didn't even want to have a role in the penalty phase and just wanted the justice to play out as it is now.

00:54:44.540 punishment phase just ended after one witness, two questions from the defense, one from the

00:54:50.480 prosecution. And now the judge is working on the jury charge. And then I guess the jury's got to

00:54:57.000 go back into the deliberation room and come up with a number. First, it was coming up with a

00:55:02.500 guilt or an innocence, and now it's going to have to be coming up with a number. I don't know.

00:55:07.500 Have you guys ever seen a jury come to a decision on sentencing before? And do you think we have,

00:55:13.780 do we have anything to go on as to whether they generally go hard or easy i got nothing i've never

00:55:19.920 seen a jury do it i've seen juries recommend like in death penalty cases they could recommend but

00:55:24.740 it's a judge's decision ultimately but this is weird where the jury comes up with the sentence

00:55:30.360 and the judge doesn't play a role and what if they're divided so the jury charge is going to

00:55:34.800 say things like you know um whatever your enlightened conscious you know leads you to

00:55:39.860 within the statutory range,

00:55:43.020 and the judge will spell out

00:55:44.020 what the possible options are for them.

00:55:46.920 And then he'll have to send it back.

00:55:48.780 And the judge has indicated previously

00:55:50.680 that he would not mind letting this jury work

00:55:54.400 late into the day or even into the night.

00:55:57.540 So it may very well be that everybody

00:56:00.020 just wants this to be over and done today,

00:56:02.700 close the book on this case,

00:56:04.480 and move on to whatever comes next

00:56:06.980 for that judge's docket.

00:56:08.680 So on the other hand, the jury could say, you know what, we're exhausted.

00:56:12.840 We need to go home, sleep on this.

00:56:14.420 We'll come back and work tomorrow.

00:56:15.720 So he may let them make that call, too.

00:56:20.780 Where's the mitigating factors that they always present on team defense?

00:56:25.920 Lack of criminal history?

00:56:26.960 Somebody gets up there and says he was in the Cub Scouts, and at one time he helped the lady with their groceries.

00:56:33.740 He was the captain of the track team.

00:56:36.440 and then you put a track team member up there saying he helped me out this one time like

00:56:40.220 i don't mark is it possible that didn't exist or it always exists megan i've represented some

00:56:49.120 really dark fellas you find people you find relatives you find anybody rent a witness i'm

00:56:56.120 kidding but there's got to be something something that you could put up there to help mitigate this

00:57:01.420 kid's looking at. I want you. I say, Mark, you get up there. Tell him about me. I know you guys

00:57:08.880 got to run. I don't want to hold you over. If you don't have to run. I would say I see him at

00:57:13.380 Publix all the time and he goes up to the bruised apples and he whispers, who did this to you?

00:57:20.460 He's so compassionate. Whatever it takes, Megan. Maybe they're seeking ineffective assistance of

00:57:26.640 counsel but no generally that's not at this point but that's what i'm saying generally that's not

00:57:31.300 the penalty phase right this second i really want to hear that out well wait keep going generally

00:57:34.880 that's for the the guilt phase not in the penalty phase of a trial so i i think at this point it's

00:57:41.320 unlikely but i can't explain why you wouldn't put up all the mitigating evidence that's the thing

00:57:45.520 that the defense can do they can put up anything like the his mother uh smoked in the womb remember

00:57:51.760 They did that with the Marjory Stoneman Douglas mass murder.

00:57:54.900 Yeah, that happened to me, too.

00:57:57.040 I knew my mother was to blame for all my problems.

00:57:59.720 Exactly.

00:58:00.540 Hey, Megan, I got a show called Positively Legal under the MK brand.

00:58:04.640 And I got Johnna Spilbore and producers waiting for me.

00:58:08.040 I should have been there several minutes ago.

00:58:10.020 So, yeah, go.

00:58:11.740 I know you guys got to go.

00:58:12.780 I'm going to keep going because we're going to see if we can possibly get to this recommendation.

00:58:18.120 yeah on that note i was too i was going to excuse myself thank you very much for

00:58:23.020 for having us uh i have a dog that needs to get to a veterinary appointment but

00:58:27.640 always happy to be here with you uh and talk about these great programs and uh we want everybody to

00:58:34.800 make sure they check all of us out over at uh mk true crime we've got three great shows over there

00:58:40.080 absolutely uh check out my panel and dave do you have to i think you have to go to it according to

00:58:45.980 my producers. They all got to leave me, but I have another team coming in. You guys, thank you.

00:58:50.260 You've all been terrific, and I really appreciate you on the last minute joining us for the breaking

00:58:54.300 news. Check out all of these guys at MK True Crime. That's where we have all of their shows,

00:58:59.560 Positively Legal and the MK True Crime show, along with In the Well, starring Mark Garagos

00:59:04.520 and Matt Murphy. And you just have to hit one little follow button on your podcast streamer

00:59:11.180 in order to get all of their content. You can check them out on YouTube as well. We're going

00:59:15.000 to get some other lawyers joining us in one second, but, um, just want to tell you what's

00:59:19.840 happening outside of the courtroom. Now, these new black Panthers are behaving terribly injecting 1.00

00:59:27.460 once again, race where it doesn't belong. Take a listen to the following color from outside of the 1.00

00:59:34.720 courthouse. This is a female black Panther. 1.00

00:59:37.860 We got to tell our kids the truth, that this is a racist-ass country. 0.99

00:59:42.860 We got to tell them the truth. 1.00

00:59:44.860 Who done can stop that cool-ass shit? 1.00

00:59:47.860 Nobody want to hear about what we do to each other. 1.00

00:59:49.860 We talking about what they doing to us. 1.00

00:59:51.860 White folks kill white folks. 1.00

00:59:53.860 Mexicans kill Mexicans. 1.00

00:59:55.860 We ain't trying to hear no cool shit today. 1.00

00:59:57.860 Go over there with them white folks with that. 1.00

01:00:00.860 This is a racist-ass country. 1.00

01:00:03.860 We're in a racist-ass state. 1.00

01:00:06.860 This is a racist-ass court. 0.99

01:00:09.840 There ain't nothing else to talk about. 1.00

01:00:12.600 When has a white boy been before an all-black jury?

01:00:16.840 Tell us, media.

01:00:18.580 Tell us, white folks.

01:00:19.780 This is a war. 0.97

01:00:21.560 This is a war.

01:00:23.660 This is a war.

01:00:25.780 And it's been going on.

01:00:28.020 This war's been going on. 0.58

01:00:30.220 They never stop being racist.

01:00:34.040 Nice.

01:00:35.200 So in case you missed it, this is a war. 1.00

01:00:38.160 We got to tell our kids the truth that this is a racist ass country. 0.99

01:00:42.660 And then ask the question, when has a white boy ever been judged by an all black jury? 0.99

01:00:50.520 Of course, trying to inject race into it, suggesting this jury's racist.

01:00:54.700 Let's be honest. 0.82

01:00:55.320 That's what she's suggesting, that they didn't give him a fair trial because he's black and 0.95

01:00:59.600 they're white, which is just so outrageous and unfounded.

01:01:02.600 And that's straight out of the Dominique Alexander playbook, who is the spokesperson for the Anthony family. 0.94

01:01:10.840 And this is the poison he's been injecting into the bloodstream of Frisco and hoping that someone who thought, as he and this woman do, would make it onto the jury.

01:01:25.160 And unfortunately for him, they ran a very tight process and they weeded out those people.

01:01:29.980 They weeded out people who would have allowed race to dictate their verdict.

01:01:35.220 And you can see she's very upset about it.

01:01:38.160 In fact, what they did was they allowed the facts and the law to dictate their verdict.

01:01:42.800 And that's how we wound up with a guilty on murder, which is exactly what Carmelo Anthony committed and what he deserved.

01:01:51.100 Back on the elements of the case, we did pull the statutes and stand by.

01:01:59.400 murder is an offense. Okay. You've got to prove, uh, that the person, okay, actually I lost it,

01:02:08.920 but it's knowingly or intentionally. Hold on. I'll find it. There's so many texts from my team.

01:02:14.240 Here it is. Person commits an offense of murder. If the person intentionally or knowingly causes

01:02:21.520 the causes the death of an individual, or if they intend to cause serious bodily injury

01:02:27.940 and commit an act, excuse me,

01:02:30.260 clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death.

01:02:34.680 I mean, that's just, there's just no question

01:02:38.040 that that's what happened here.

01:02:39.940 Like you knowingly caused the death of Austin Metcalf

01:02:44.220 when you, whatever the equivalent of a sucker punch is,

01:02:48.900 you sucker stabbed him in the heart with no warning 0.85

01:02:52.920 and no buildup, no even verbal threat 0.99

01:02:58.140 that that was on the table, nothing.

01:03:01.340 The prosecutor was pointing out in his closing,

01:03:03.860 there were no defensive wounds.

01:03:06.020 Austin Metcalf did not see this coming.

01:03:07.760 He had no idea his life was in danger.

01:03:11.780 Carmelo Anthony took that.

01:03:13.240 He played God.

01:03:14.980 He played the devil.

01:03:16.800 And in a moment, it was over.

01:03:19.820 So that's murder.

01:03:22.180 It's not manslaughter, and this jury got it 100% right.

01:03:26.480 Again, for those of you just joining us, Carmelo Anthony has been found guilty of murder by

01:03:31.200 a Collin County jury.

01:03:33.060 He is in the custody of the Collin County sheriff right now.

01:03:37.760 They are deliberating his fate when it comes to the penalty phase of this, what his sentence

01:03:42.940 should be.

01:03:44.200 It's between 5 and 99 years or life.

01:03:48.600 Five in 99 years is, I believe, what the jury is choosing between here.

01:03:53.880 Because he was a minor when he committed the crime, no parole is not an option.

01:04:00.620 So he will be eligible for parole no matter what sentence he gets. 0.75

01:04:05.180 The jury, it's true, did not have any black members on it, but it had multiple minorities,

01:04:11.540 including Asian women, a Hispanic or an Indian man, a Middle Eastern woman wearing a head

01:04:19.980 covering, an Indian woman in her 30s, and at least two or three others whom the reporters

01:04:27.740 couldn't tell whether they were Hispanic or white, but they too may have been minorities,

01:04:34.080 just couldn't tell. And apparently in some trials, you get access to the juror forms.

01:04:38.780 and this one clearly we didn't. Here's a little bit more color for you on what happened inside

01:04:45.280 the courtroom on the penalty phase. The local CBS, again, this is J.D. Miles reporting that

01:04:50.300 Carmelo Anthony's mother told the jury, he's my oldest. He's my firstborn. He will always be my

01:04:58.720 baby. I love him very much. The defense, does your son regret what he did? Yes. He's very sorry for

01:05:04.940 what he did i i'm i gotta be honest i don't i don't have a lot of tolerance for this mother

01:05:09.620 she sat there in back of dominique alexander let me show you that that bit from dominique

01:05:15.520 alexander trying to demonize austin's dad jeff metcalf just listen to this one this is from

01:05:22.660 april of 2025 stop 15 what we've seen at the beginning of this press conference are behind him

01:05:30.320 of the father being at this press conference

01:05:34.580 is a disrespect to the dignity of his son.

01:05:39.740 As that was disrespectful

01:05:41.780 and just shows you all

01:05:45.320 the character

01:05:48.020 who was not invited,

01:05:52.600 he knows that it's inappropriate

01:05:55.940 to be near this family.

01:05:58.300 But he did it.

01:05:59.100 And so I say to people, actions speak louder than words.

01:06:05.560 Okay?

01:06:06.720 What he has failed into is the political operatives that want to make this thing a political thing of hate, yet bigotry, and yet racism.

01:06:21.260 We have conservative operatives that have been posting nonstop.

01:06:27.520 unbelievable ashley merchant is my guest now uh she joins us she's also part of our mk true crime 0.67

01:06:35.040 network uh and you may know her from her very famous and laudable fanny willis case participation

01:06:41.940 she's the one who we have to thank for getting that case dismissed um ashley it's infuriating

01:06:49.780 because in that clip what the listening audience can't see is carmelo anthony's parents standing

01:06:54.360 right behind him. Of course, Jeff Metcalf showed up at this presser involving his son's murder.

01:07:02.200 Right. Oh, Megan, it just it gives me goosebumps when I watch that because I blame them for this

01:07:08.160 because he should have made a better decision. And that's, you know, as a defense lawyer,

01:07:11.640 it just really pains me. Same. Well, part of our job is to make people make the best decisions or

01:07:18.380 help them make the best decisions. And it's the same as a mother. And this mother, part of her

01:07:21.960 job is to help her son make a good decision. He did it. He's guilty. If he felt bad, like she told

01:07:27.580 the jurors, maybe he should have gone in and begged for a deal ahead of time, begged for mercy

01:07:31.980 ahead of time and thrown himself at the mercy of the prosecution, the mercy of the victim's family,

01:07:37.120 you know, done that instead of dragged it out and had this this defense this whole time that,

01:07:42.160 you know, this is racist and self-defense. I mean, that doesn't show that you're taking

01:07:46.920 responsibility. That doesn't show that you feel bad for what you've done. And I'm saying this as

01:07:51.000 a defense lawyer. I mean, they needed to have that serious conversation with him. He's a kid.

01:07:56.020 The parents needed to have a very serious conversation with him about taking responsibility

01:08:00.920 for your actions. And they didn't. That's right. They didn't. And not only did they stand there

01:08:07.820 while this Dominique Alexander, their family spokesperson, tried to shame the victim's father,

01:08:16.100 who I'm sure was there to make sure his child wasn't being smeared or attacked by this villainous Alexander character.

01:08:27.280 But they stood there and let him say all of that about Jeff Metcalf.

01:08:32.360 They stood there and listened as well when he played the race card, with which they were obviously totally fine.

01:08:41.700 Here's thought 13 from that same presser, April 17th, 2025.

01:09:11.700 We don't like to, but if we want to sleep at night, we got to.

01:09:18.220 I ain't pulling no race car.

01:09:20.180 I live it.

01:09:21.820 I'm reminded all the time that I'm a black man in America.

01:09:26.520 Oh, my God.

01:09:27.940 I mean, Ashley, it's outrageous what they did, what they tried to pull off.

01:09:32.960 It's absolutely outrageous.

01:09:33.980 It backfired.

01:09:35.180 And I hate it for them because they got awful advice.

01:09:37.720 This person, this Dominique Alexander, I mean, just creating a racial profile out of this that wasn't race.

01:09:45.060 There's nothing to do with race.

01:09:46.420 This was just a killing.

01:09:47.460 This was just a kid who should not have been there with a knife and should have been taught better, not taking responsibility.

01:09:53.520 It has nothing to do with race.

01:09:55.320 But I can't help but think that they wanted to influence the jury and wanted the jury to be walking past folks every day to somehow think that this was racially motivated when it wasn't.

01:10:04.700 There's no evidence of that.

01:10:07.720 Mm hmm. They're they're the only ones who injected race into this case, them. And honestly, it's why I'm not convinced that race wasn't a motive in this case on their son's part. 0.56

01:10:19.480 I'm not not on Austin Metcalfe's part. Right. I'm not either. And I'm not I'm not convinced that it wasn't something in the back of their head thinking I can use this as an excuse.

01:10:28.540 You know, this will go along with my self-defense claim, you know, something like that.

01:10:33.320 I can't help but think that that was somewhere in the back of their head yeah um it just I there's

01:10:38.720 no way the parents are full of this level of racial grievance and the son isn't no I don't

01:10:44.160 believe that and he obviously has a hair trigger which also is possibly born of racial grievance

01:10:52.520 so I just like I have no tolerance for this and I I think that that's the only witness they put

01:10:58.780 on that stand, the mother saying as little as she did, because let's face it, in all likelihood,

01:11:05.000 that's all there was. They probably didn't have some Cub Scout leader or other person who could

01:11:09.920 wax poetic about the virtues of Carmelo Anthony. They didn't. And I'll tell you, Megan, it was

01:11:15.320 really surprising to me that they did not put Carmelo Anthony actually on the stand. In a

01:11:20.120 self-defense case, that absolutely shocked me. I mean, he doesn't have prior convictions. So

01:11:25.400 usually if you don't put your client on the stand, it's because they can't honestly say they didn't

01:11:30.340 do it. They have prior convictions. They have something they want to hide. Or you're concerned

01:11:34.480 that they're going to lose their temper under cross-examination. And I can't help but think

01:11:38.900 that it had to be that last one. It had to be that they were so nervous that he was going to

01:11:42.780 lose his temper during cross-examination and show the jury that violent streak and that they were

01:11:48.700 afraid of that. Or else why would they not have put him on the stand? Yes, I totally agree with

01:11:54.240 you. He must not have been a sympathetic witness at all. If he couldn't even take the stand to

01:11:59.760 express that he regretted murdering Austin. I like and that he was apparently he wasn't able to

01:12:07.900 sell it. We needed to hear that he was scared. We needed to hear we needed to see the jury needed

01:12:13.300 to see that fear. And that was the only thing that would have could have potentially saved him

01:12:18.700 if they actually saw that fear, if it existed. But clearly it didn't exist.

01:12:22.160 Yeah. Now I want to bring in a first time guest on the case. Ashley stays with us, who has covered this case very closely. His name is Imran Ansari, and he's a law partner of our pal, Arthur Idala. Imran, great to see you.

01:12:37.120 Your thoughts on the breaking news here that it's a guilty verdict, it's on murder, and they're already going to the penalty phase with the defense presenting one witness only, Carmelo Anthony's mother, and then both sides resting and giving the case back to the jury to come up with a sentence.

01:12:52.460 Yeah, Megan, I'm not surprised at this verdict. And he had swift justice there, right? They were deliberating for maybe three hours or so when they came back with this verdict. And to Ashley's point, when you have a justification defense, a self-defense defense, you have to put the defendant on the stand.

01:13:13.480 The jury needs to step in his or her shoes, needs to get in their mind and have to appreciate what they saw with their words.

01:13:23.280 If you're going to put that defense out there and not put the defendant on the stand, you might as well take that justification, affirmative defense, and not put it out before that jury.

01:13:33.260 And that's what they did here because there really was no defense here.

01:13:36.720 And if you took the facts, you heard the witnesses and how they testified about what they saw.

01:13:42.860 Really, how would they craft a justification defense?

01:13:46.980 And I think if he took the stand, it would have just been all the more worse in terms of now, at least they could try to mitigate the sentencing phase.

01:13:55.140 And if he took that stand, the cross-examination, some of his testimony, they may have not even been able to do that at the sentencing phase.

01:14:02.660 So I'm not surprised at the verdict, and I am not surprised at the time that the jury took to render this verdict.

01:14:09.920 You know, I have to say, I thought that the defense lawyer's performance was so abysmal.

01:14:18.060 It occurred to me, is he intentionally trying to throw this case because there's no defense and get him an ineffective assistance of counsel appellate ground?

01:14:26.520 I really did ask myself that. And then I remembered that that doesn't work if the case is open and shut against the client. Like you have to go back in. So now that he's convicted and if he wants to file an appeal, which they always do, he'll have to say ineffective assistant of counsel.

01:14:45.900 And, Ashley, he'll have to then prove to the court that an effective lawyer could have gotten him off.

01:14:52.080 Right.

01:14:52.460 Which is like it doesn't make any sense to intentionally tank it.

01:14:56.480 Right. It doesn't make any sense.

01:14:57.500 And I think he would have a really hard time going over that hurdle to prove that the result.

01:15:01.860 Essentially, he would have to prove on ineffective that the result would have been different if he had a different lawyer, not just, you know, the lawyer maybe made some mistakes.

01:15:08.920 But, you know, as I've watched this case, I was thinking about the defense lawyer and thinking, I wonder if he's tanking it or I wonder if his hands are tied. And those are very different things for defense lawyer. When our hands are tied, it's because mom's in the room and she's saying, you know, you be a proud whatever. You're you're you know, you're innocent. You're this. You're wonderful. You're my baby. Don't take a plea. Don't listen to the advice of counsel.

01:15:33.780 you know we're going to put forward this defense and so we as defense lawyers control certain

01:15:38.440 aspects of the case but we don't control everything and so the decision to testify for example that is

01:15:43.120 up to the client that is up to the defendant and when you have a 17 year old his parents were

01:15:46.820 probably involved in that decision so I can't force my client to do that and also things like

01:15:51.480 manslaughter for example when I saw the judge give that manslaughter instruction I thought you

01:15:56.340 know a really good move here would be for Anthony to have testified and told them that this was an

01:16:03.140 accident, I feel awful, and tried for that manslaughter, you know, tried for something

01:16:07.160 in the middle, because that could have saved a lot of his life. I mean, he definitely would

01:16:10.940 have spent many years in prison, but he would have gotten out. And I can't help but think

01:16:14.580 that that defense lawyer probably wanted that for his client, and is probably upset that,

01:16:20.680 you know, maybe the parents influenced him, maybe society influenced him, who knows who

01:16:24.220 influenced him, but that he wasn't really making the right decision, because he's 17.

01:16:28.520 What we know from the Daily Mail is that these parents, in addition to playing the race card through their spokesperson and attacking Jeff Metcalf as the villain, that they took the money they got from Give, Send, Go and reportedly used it on this very nice mansion where they moved their family to.

01:16:51.060 They claimed it was a safety issue. I don't I don't think you have to move into a mansion in order to ensure safety, but that they did still have enough to hire this lawyer.

01:17:01.380 This is this guy was legal aid. He was a public defender, but he's not now. He's in private practice.

01:17:06.340 So I assume they are paying him a private practice fee. But the parents, forgive me, didn't seem like their child's welfare was really their number one concern, given that behavior.

01:17:18.200 Right. And absolutely, Megan. And that would be the real injustice here, right? Not looking at this case from a standpoint, from a defendant's standpoint, where we maybe embrace. And Ashley, you were mentioning that. You embrace the weaknesses in the case. You concede certain things in order to get the jury, if they're going to convict and the writing is on the wall, to convict on a lesser count. And that manslaughter count was there for that jury, but they didn't pivot for that.

01:17:44.960 And if the parents saw this case as a means to perhaps make some money, to generate some sort of issue out there that wasn't really an issue in this particular case, get publicity, then, you know, that's the real injustice.

01:18:01.900 Because the decisions in this case perhaps were not even being made by that young man in the defendant's chair, who perhaps would have a chance at getting out at a reasonable age, you know, if that manslaughter was the one and the sentencing had mitigation.

01:18:17.640 But no, this was turned into an issue that it perhaps should not have been.

01:18:22.300 And the real driving force behind that, we don't know it, but it could be the parents.

01:18:26.480 And that would be a real injustice for that defendant and also for the family of the victim,

01:18:31.280 because now it was brought into a light where it shouldn't have been.

01:18:35.000 This was a killing that was without justification.

01:18:38.480 The jury saw that.

01:18:39.520 The jury saw what the evidence really told.

01:18:42.800 And now, unfortunately, there's a lot of loss of life here, right?

01:18:45.600 You have a loss of life in the Metcalf side, and then you have this young man who's going to probably spend the rest of his life potentially behind bars if they're not able to get some mitigation at this late standpoint in the sentencing phase.

01:18:59.660 Yeah, I feel like these parents, Ashley, they they thought that race card was going to work. 0.69

01:19:08.600 They probably thought they'd wind up with some black jurors who feel the way they do. 0.93

01:19:14.420 Not normal black jurors who see justice like we all do, but ones who are like guided by racial identity. 0.88

01:19:23.220 Like that woman who soundbite we ran yesterday who said we take care of our own. 0.92

01:19:26.680 You take care of your own. 0.93

01:19:27.720 And they wound up not getting that. And I'm sure they're quite disappointed. Here is just some

01:19:34.020 color from outside of the courthouse. This person is a Carmelo Anthony supporter. And

01:19:39.260 listen to the messaging just now. What do you want us to do? What do you want us to do at this point?

01:19:46.200 What? I'm lost for it. I don't know what to do. I got five boys. I don't know. I ain't got nothing

01:19:51.940 to tell them no more. You can't walk away no more. Rest in peace, Trayvon Martin. Let me ask you

01:19:57.320 this right now. Okay, good. Got cut off in an awkward place there. That's via Hey JB show on

01:20:05.000 WFLA, which is on Nextar. And by the way, our earlier soundbite was from Nick Sorter, the one

01:20:10.960 where we showed the Black Panther claiming the country's racist and the court is racist, and this

01:20:15.980 is a war. So yeah, what am I going to tell my kids? Why don't you tell your kids not to stab

01:20:23.660 somebody in the heart over a track meet tent. Right. And then you'll be fine. I mean, and don't 0.96

01:20:30.900 don't bring a knife in the first place. Don't bring a weapon. You don't need a weapon. You

01:20:34.480 shouldn't have a weapon there. I can't help but notice the absence, though, of any character

01:20:40.700 witnesses, which I thought was really interesting in a self-defense case. You know, we talked a few

01:20:44.920 minutes ago about how the fact that he didn't testify himself, but the fact that there were

01:20:48.280 no character witnesses. This is 17 year old kid. Is there not a guidance counselor at that school?

01:20:53.140 is there not an assistant principal that he's, is he not in a club? Is he not, does his track

01:20:57.280 coach not know him and be able to testify on his behalf? That was really interesting to me,

01:21:01.760 because if you have an affirmative defense like self-defense, unless there's bad character that

01:21:06.500 you don't want to open the door to, you're going to put up a character defense. And so the only

01:21:10.640 reason that I can imagine that the teachers weren't testifying, the guidance counselors

01:21:14.620 weren't testifying, the church, you know, the pastor wasn't testifying, is that they were

01:21:18.680 worried about opening the door to other acts of violence. And we haven't heard that yet because

01:21:22.120 because he's a juvenile. But why else would you not put up a character defense? I just I don't

01:21:26.860 understand. That's a very good question. That's what I was saying is like, he doesn't have a

01:21:30.660 criminal record because he's a juvenile. But that doesn't mean he didn't commit crimes and pay for

01:21:34.520 them in the juvie system. It doesn't. And so opens the door even like if there's school things if

01:21:38.940 there were some, you know, if there are any indiscretions at school, even if they were

01:21:41.960 administrative, that would open the door. If you put up a good character defense that opens the

01:21:45.620 all of that. Yeah. Yeah. And she said he's her oldest, which means she's got other kids. Like

01:21:54.060 you couldn't have a kit, like a younger sister say, please, please, you know, don't put my

01:22:00.000 brother away forever. It's very strange that they limited it so much. Standby, I want to bring in

01:22:05.520 Viva Frye, who's joining us now to add to our panel. Viva, are you surprised by any of this,

01:22:12.900 in particular, that we are already in the sentencing phase and that it's already over

01:22:17.740 the testimonials on his behalf. What I was shocked about is how how fast this trial moved.

01:22:24.500 And full disclosure, everybody knows this. I'm a former Quebec civil litigator. I don't have

01:22:29.260 any meaningful experience in criminal law, but with a criminal trial of this magnitude to have

01:22:35.440 opening statements be 20 minutes, jury selection an hour and three quarters, trial on a Saturday

01:22:40.800 or hearings on a Saturday, and the entire trial is over in a week.

01:22:45.000 On the one hand, I think it's a testament to the weakness

01:22:48.280 of what I've always believed to be a totally fabricated defensive self-defense.

01:22:52.440 It was after-the-fact, ex-post-facto nonsense

01:22:55.680 to try to justify the horrific, unjustifiable, in any sense, of what he did.

01:23:01.320 And once they saw just how bad that was going,

01:23:04.220 the fact that they ended their defense after basically a day and a half,

01:23:07.840 there was no point digging the hole any further.

01:23:09.660 But the truly malicious thing about this, the murder is it's beyond horror.

01:23:16.340 The victimizing of the victim in the raising of a defense of self-defense and then the online mob that comes out there and says Austin Metcalf was the aggressor.

01:23:25.560 That compounds the awfulness and the evil of the action.

01:23:28.420 But this was it was a train wreck disaster slam dunk of a murder case.

01:23:32.220 And there was no point in dragging it on any longer for the defense.

01:23:35.080 here is a little bit more iman of what we're hearing from outside the courthouse the reaction

01:23:41.700 from this radical group of new black panthers and their supporters not everyone there is a new black

01:23:48.320 panther this is via nick's order as well take a listen in here sat 56 0.63

01:23:52.480 to protect black people anytime a white man or white child can go and put their hands

01:23:58.420 aggressively on anybody and something like this occur it's self-defense it's self-defense you put

01:24:06.800 your hand on me and see how i respond what will the anthony family what will the people that

01:24:15.500 standing behind the anthony family do that's the question you should ask you don't stand behind

01:24:19.840 them and we're going to fight that's what's going to happen what is your relationship

01:24:23.400 I'm sorry, Imran, but if this is the black jury pool that they were looking at for this case,

01:24:49.540 is it any wonder that the jury is without any blacks? 0.86

01:24:53.400 Well, certainly if that was the attitude that was being given during the voir dire, jury selection, no juror like that would ever be selected or a potential juror. 0.94

01:25:04.360 And I have to just get to what is going on outside that courthouse now to suggest that there was some motivation by race or of race by that jury when they rendered their verdict.

01:25:20.160 After hearing the evidence, after hearing the testimony, watching the video, seeing all the forensic evidence that was put before them, that is so insulting, right?

01:25:31.360 It's so insulting to those jurors who sat there, listened to the evidence, and rendered a verdict based on that evidence just to assume and hurl these accusations that somehow it was racially motivated.

01:25:43.580 It's just not there. And it's an insult to those jurors, the people in that courtroom and also the justice system.

01:25:51.580 So not everything has to be racially motivated.

01:25:55.660 And to turn this right, which was based on evidence, that evidence that we saw play out in that courtroom, whether the defendant was black and the victim was black or white and white, the evidence would be the same, Megan.

01:26:09.960 And that evidence did not support a defense of justification or self-defense.

01:26:16.680 There was no way of viewing that evidence to say that he acted proportionally or had the legal right to stab Metcalf.

01:26:25.780 That's it. Period. End report. And that's why you have that.

01:26:29.820 Proportionality. That's what it's all about. Proportionality.

01:26:32.680 You can if if Austin Metcalf had gone over to him with a hammer, we wouldn't be here.

01:26:39.220 Like, it would have been a different story, but he didn't.

01:26:41.920 He didn't even punch him.

01:26:43.100 He did nothing.

01:26:44.300 He literally just laid hands on him was the testimony.

01:26:47.420 The one guy who was sitting next to Carmelo Anthony testified that Austin, quote, pushed him so gently, Anthony didn't even get bumped into his neighbor.

01:26:58.260 His body didn't even, like, brush up against the neighbor.

01:27:01.140 So it wasn't much of a push.

01:27:02.600 Of course, Austin Metcalf was a strapping football player who, if he really wanted to hurt Carmelo Anthony, you know, he could have done it.

01:27:12.220 If he wanted to push him in a way that would have gotten his attention, he could have done it.

01:27:16.440 He didn't.

01:27:17.520 I regret to tell you that Dominique Alexander is speaking outside of the courthouse, of course, because he's not going to miss his two minutes of fame.

01:27:26.780 And you'll be shocked, shocked to hear his messaging.

01:27:29.820 Let's play it. 0.97

01:27:30.340 What this process did has shown that black lives do not matter in Collin County. 0.97

01:27:36.400 It showed us that time and time in American history, it put emotions over the law.

01:27:43.700 After Trayvon Martin and so many countless names, it has shown us that black life is not safe in Collin County. 0.98

01:27:53.480 It showed us that they did not listen to the law. 0.99

01:27:58.000 it showed clearly that a judge interfered in this process it showed very clearly that a black boy

01:28:07.400 was allowed not one black soul on a jury ashley i mean omg it makes me so mad because it's not

01:28:19.180 true like it's just not true you know that's not how jury selection works it's just not true and

01:28:24.920 And so, I mean, yes, it's unfortunate that it was an all-white jury, but his lawyers

01:28:29.580 pitched that jury.

01:28:30.520 It's a process of deselection.

01:28:32.460 If the lawyers thought that it was unfair and that it was somehow biased, they could

01:28:36.700 have objected.

01:28:37.440 They could have re-paneled the jury.

01:28:38.800 They could have moved to shuffle.

01:28:39.780 I've done all of that.

01:28:40.600 There's so many things you can do if you actually think there's some systematic exclusion of

01:28:45.480 any race, sex, gender, anything.

01:28:48.180 You can move to re-shuffle.

01:28:50.080 I mean, there's so many remedies.

01:28:51.100 So, you know, when I hear him, I'm like, he's he's clearly not a lawyer out there talking about something that he doesn't have any business talking about.

01:28:57.420 And it's very frustrating because these citizens have given up their lives for a week.

01:29:01.600 And, you know, listening to jury doing jury duty and actually having to sit through all of this weighs very heavy on these jurors.

01:29:10.140 I've talked to a ton of jurors after the fact and we were just at CrimeCon and they actually had a panel of ex-jurors who were talking about the profound impact it had.

01:29:18.200 when he gets up there and he says this, it just devalues that civic duty that they're doing

01:29:22.540 when they're doing jury duty. And you know, they're paying attention to this case. You know

01:29:26.920 that they're weighing these lives very carefully, the lives that were lost and the life that they

01:29:31.980 have in their hands, Mr. Anthony's life. And it's just very unfortunate to see their service,

01:29:36.360 their civic duty discounted like that and just tossed aside and said that they're racist because

01:29:41.020 because they voted with the law and with the evidence. 0.62

01:29:44.320 Oh, and Viva, this shows, the verdict shows black men are not safe in Collin County. 0.99

01:29:52.840 The decedent is a dead man, is a dead white man. 0.99

01:29:56.600 He's a dead white man, not a black man. 0.99

01:29:58.740 Get it straight, Dominique. 0.98

01:30:00.500 It's utterly absurd, but just so the media doesn't pounce on Ashley,

01:30:04.180 that there were minorities on the panel.

01:30:06.180 So it wasn't all white.

01:30:07.140 There was a couple of Asians, a Muslim woman, I think Latino.

01:30:09.980 Now, as far as it goes, though, the argument of the intersectionality of racism is that it was of no use to a black defendant to have minorities who are not black because you wouldn't have that collegiality as though that's what you're supposed to have in a jury pool.

01:30:24.660 It's supposed to be a jury of your peers, not a jury of your supporters.

01:30:28.240 And, you know, some people might argue, well, you know, the Asian community might not have things in common with the black community.

01:30:34.000 So therefore, it's not even like having a, put it in quotes, a useful minority on the jury pool.

01:30:38.600 but the idea that they can come out and suggest and and at least the saving grace is it seems to

01:30:44.880 be a very small handful of people who are free during the day to go and protest in front of a

01:30:49.880 cut and pry murder case so it's not a broader scale thing but for the for the woman who came

01:30:56.240 out there in the the black woman in the pink jersey to say if a white person puts their hands

01:31:00.660 on me see what happens to you that's a criminal threat we're not talking about self-defense we're 0.98

01:31:05.580 talking about murder. And what they're basically saying is what got Scott Adams in the deepest of

01:31:10.440 trouble for. She is saying out loud what Scott Adams got canceled for. I don't want to be around

01:31:15.700 white people. If a white person touches me, I feel entitled to murder them. That's what she said. 1.00

01:31:19.620 Luckily, it's just a handful of what I think are crazies and not a broader sentiment. But

01:31:23.640 maybe I'm being too optimistic. No, you're right. It's actually a good point about the Scott Adams

01:31:29.900 thing. Just the incendiary nature of this guy. I'm telling you, I mean, you tell me, Imran,

01:31:35.900 it tells us something about these parents that they selected this man as their family spokesperson.

01:31:40.840 He's not been fired after that presser from April of 2025. He's still there. He's outside

01:31:46.640 of the courthouse, once again, spewing off, mentioning Trayvon Martin after Trayvon Martin

01:31:54.360 and so many countless names, it's shown us that black life is not safe in Collin County.

01:32:00.660 I mean, look, I don't want to make this all about that nut, but he speaks for the family.

01:32:06.360 Right.

01:32:06.540 And you would hope, Megan, that he would be speaking accurately, but he's not, right?

01:32:11.660 We're seeing a distortion about what happens in a criminal trial in the justice system

01:32:17.980 and this conclusory remarks, you know, making these assumptions as to what happened in that

01:32:23.820 court. And then there's apples and oranges, right? Comparing this to Trayvon Martin. This is not that

01:32:28.620 case. This is not that case at all. You have someone bringing a knife to a game who has no

01:32:37.440 threat against them of any deadly force and decides to take that knife out and plunge it

01:32:44.880 into the heart of another human being. That's it. You don't have to have all this commotion outside. 0.99

01:32:52.400 In fact, it's a disservice to the defense, I think, because you start detracting from what should be the focus on the evidence there and the trial.

01:33:02.720 And you start getting this whole circus out there, and it really doesn't advance anything.

01:33:09.500 It just divides further.

01:33:11.320 But you have to speak accurately here.

01:33:13.180 Going to a microphone and just saying these words, right?

01:33:16.600 Well, we live in an information age where every little thing is going to be picked apart.

01:33:20.020 And I'm sure what he said out there will be picked apart by someone on social media from the other side.

01:33:26.060 We're doing that right now. Right. We're scrutinizing that.

01:33:29.360 But to do that and just create more division and confusion and disinformation, that's what you're seeing there.

01:33:37.180 Right. But right now, I want to add one point to that.

01:33:41.160 Not only that. So it's a disservice to the Anthony family and certainly to the family of Austin Metcalf.

01:33:46.300 It's a disservice to black people who are normal and do not think like this as a group.

01:33:52.920 Most black Americans aren't looking at this being like a black man can't get a fair trial in America anywhere. 0.98

01:33:58.580 And this proves that black lives don't matter in Collin County. 1.00

01:34:02.040 Bullshit. That's that's a lie. 1.00

01:34:03.960 This is a handful of lunatics, radicals outside of this courthouse saying a bunch of nonsense that does not reflect what regular black people think. 0.98

01:34:15.260 These are activists out there, Ashley, embarrassing themselves and undermining or trying to undermine the faith in a system that did its duty and came to the obvious only right conclusion under these particular facts and law. 0.99

01:34:30.360 Right. And I would argue that they probably hurt the protesters probably hurt because the jurors had to know.

01:34:36.680 I mean, they live in this community. They had to know about this.

01:34:39.260 And when you see this every day, you walk into court, you think you're going to hear something explosive.

01:34:44.600 You think with all of the publicity that we heard and all the protesters, I thought we were going to hear that Mr. Metcalf had said something awful or done something awful, that there was going to be some smoking gun that they kept from us all because there's no way Dominique Alexander is going to give these press conferences and say all this and promise all of this stuff if there's not going to be something when we go into court.

01:35:04.840 So I would imagine these jurors walking past these protesters every day thinking this is this huge racial case.

01:35:10.240 This is biased. You know, we're going to hear some explosive evidence.

01:35:12.860 We're probably left wondering what like where was it?

01:35:16.500 And it probably did a disservice to his defense.

01:35:19.600 You know what else, Viva, like the indignity of these comments, because what are we dealing with in the news right now?

01:35:25.080 We saw Henry Novak murdered by Vikram Digwa in the UK and a police force that refused to render aid or even believe him that he'd been stabbed five times because they were so anxious to accept the racial narrative over there that it had to be the white man who was the perpetrator and not the brown Sikh man who actually had stuck a knife in him five times.

01:35:48.260 This morning, we wake up to an attempted beheading by someone from Sudan in Northern Ireland, attacking a man 40 years old, a white man who is within an inch of dying and still is not out of the woods.

01:36:02.960 He's in the hospital now with reportedly terrible damage to his eyes.

01:36:06.340 It could have been far worse had a man not stepped in and saved his life, a civilian.

01:36:10.880 That's the narrative that we've been seeing on our television screens over the past week.

01:36:15.140 Now, this guy wants to come out and talk about how racist we are against people of color in America.

01:36:23.320 It's a lie. This is bullshit. 1.00

01:36:25.320 It's you know, there's the old expression of the soft bigotry of low expectations. 1.00

01:36:29.520 And it's also just known as bigotry.

01:36:31.420 But I am actually having these discussions with certain people on Twitter where one person actually said there were two ways for this not to have happened.

01:36:39.480 One, Austin Metcalfe could have gotten an adult and not asked Carmelo to leave.

01:36:45.140 And the other is Carmelo could, you know, should not have stabbed him. 0.99

01:36:47.860 And I'm like, apply that analogy to a woman who gets raped. 0.98

01:36:51.420 And you say, well, there were two ways for her not to have gotten raped. 0.98

01:36:53.580 She could have not gone to the nightclub or the rapist could not have raped her.

01:36:57.000 As if to normalize this type of behavior in the first place, it's demeaning to the very people that they purport to be protecting to say, yeah, you know, there were two ways for this not to happen.

01:37:07.980 You know, Anthony could have Austin Metcalf could have not exceeded the limits of his authority as a kid.

01:37:12.580 or you know the other guy could not have stabbed him in the heart as if those two responses are

01:37:17.380 somehow comparable so it does a disservice i just say the only saving grace here i think

01:37:22.440 is it's a very vocal group of of radicals and not a broader sort of us versus them like we saw with

01:37:28.760 oj simpson when i remember otherwise rational people or so i thought saying this is a victory

01:37:34.060 because oj simpson got away with murder allegedly uh in this case it seems to be a much more narrow

01:37:39.080 group of radicals located to the courthouse uh you know some sort of black panther offshoot and

01:37:43.880 it doesn't seem to be wider spread or more you know broader across the national spectrum

01:37:48.520 here's a little bit more from outside of the courthouse this is an attorney michael jafar

01:37:54.660 i don't know that he had any role in the case i think he's just an attorney but could be wrong

01:37:59.460 um this was on court tv's um coverage of this take a listen to his reaction i mean this is i'm

01:38:07.460 questioning the jury and ask him, how did you reach your verdict? How did you reach it so quickly?

01:38:11.820 What happened? It was a four-inch knife. He used it one time. He was pushed. I'm not saying that

01:38:16.940 it was right, but what are you doing? How did you get this verdict? I'd want to know my whole

01:38:22.120 identity as a defense attorney would be in question, right? I'm questioning my identity

01:38:26.860 right now, and I have nothing to do with this case. How could you come back like that? I would

01:38:31.540 be enraged. I'm enraged right now. This is very upsetting. And then on top of that, to compound

01:38:36.160 this dumb judge didn't allow cameras in the courtroom. What was your wisdom? What were you 0.98

01:38:41.440 thinking? How did you put on a robe? Are you that much of an imbecile that you won't let

01:38:46.240 cameras in the courtroom in a case like this? This is not a rape case. This is something different. 1.00

01:38:51.740 This is something that's clearly the whole community is enraged. And you knew that before

01:38:55.640 the trial started. So, I mean, this is very upsetting. Wow. Wow, Ashley. It's a four-inch

01:39:04.620 knife. He only used it one time. Yeah, I don't think that the family of Mr. Metcalf would really

01:39:11.440 take kindly to that. He only used it one time, but he was so lethal that he only had to use it

01:39:15.640 one time. I mean, that's just an awful argument. Now, I agree with him that I wish there were

01:39:19.060 cameras in the courtroom, because then I think we wouldn't be having a lot of these debates that

01:39:22.600 we're having because we'd actually be able to see that the jury got it right with our own eyes.

01:39:26.860 But, you know, the fact that he's a defense lawyer and he is shocked at a three hour verdict,

01:39:30.960 I'm not sure how many cases he's trying because that's not unheard of. Three hours is not that

01:39:36.100 fast. This was not a tough case. They're not weighing fingerprint evidence. It's not a whodunit.

01:39:40.320 It's not an identity. We're not talking about DNA. They didn't have thousands of witnesses to

01:39:44.760 debate over. I mean, it was pretty open and shut. So if you think about it, so three hours, you know,

01:39:49.720 they want to get lunch. They've got to vote on who's the foreperson. That takes maybe an hour

01:39:53.860 or so. They're going to go around and take a vote or two and then maybe talk. But three hours,

01:39:57.820 That's that's actually a long time.

01:40:00.300 It's a very good point.

01:40:01.620 I want to tell you, Imran, that Dominique Alexander, we have more from him, which I'm I am going to tell you about in a second.

01:40:08.900 But I do want I do want you to know this about this guy who was hired by the Anthony family to represent them.

01:40:16.460 He has a history reading here from the Daily Mail.

01:40:19.460 I'm sorry, the Daily Caller.

01:40:20.940 We've also reported this independently in the past.

01:40:23.500 He has a history of criminal accusations and sentences.

01:40:25.960 He was arrested in 2019 on a felony charge of family violence after his partner accused him of trying to strangle her.

01:40:34.540 KXAS-TV reported, citing court documents, his partner later signed an affidavit just prior to a grand jury indictment saying that she wanted no further part in the prosecution on account of how the cops handled the case.

01:40:44.700 The charges were later dropped, Dallas Morning News reported.

01:40:47.520 The activist also was arrested in 2009 for causing serious head injuries to the two-year-old child of his then-girlfriend.

01:40:55.960 Per the Dallas Observer, while Alexander initially claimed the baby fell off the couch while he was babysitting, an investigator said a doctor reported the severity of the injuries did not match up with that excuse.

01:41:09.920 Quote, the injuries are acute and likely occurred around the time that his girlfriend's son started to have symptoms like being unresponsive.

01:41:20.360 Without more adequate history of trauma, complainant's injuries are more consistent with abusive head trauma and child physical abuse.

01:41:29.060 Alexander confessed to shaking and hitting the baby with an object, according to court records obtained by the Dallas Morning News.

01:41:35.660 He pleaded guilty in 2011.

01:41:37.580 The judge sentenced him to probation. He was sentenced in 2016 to five years in prison for violating probation multiple times, but served only eight days due to the probation counting toward his sentence.

01:41:48.520 He was indicted once again on felony theft charges that were increased due to a 2013 forgery conviction, citing court records.

01:41:55.620 He pleaded guilty in 2021 and was sentenced to two days in jail.

01:41:58.160 OK, before I give you his latest soundbite, I mean, honestly, you tell me, Amran, somebody like that walks into your office and says, I didn't do the shoplifting like I need you to represent me. 0.96

01:42:10.540 I swear this is all made up. And your reaction is what? 0.79

01:42:14.180 Well, Megan, listen, it's not going to be good for business if I say I'm not necessarily take my potential criminal defense.

01:42:20.980 But you're not going to paint him as a choir boy.

01:42:23.520 Well, it's questionable. I'll say that it's definitely questionable.

01:42:27.100 And it's a track record, right? But, you know, he comes into the office. He says that. But now he's out here on the main stage putting certain information before the public. And what you just read out to the listeners and viewers, Megan, says it all right. He has a history as a checkered past there. He has convictions. So I'm not talking about just merely allegations with some of the points that you just made.

01:42:54.620 And what would we do with that in the court of law if you had a witness with that, right?

01:42:59.960 You'd attack their credibility, right?

01:43:02.340 And that's what you have to think about when you hear.

01:43:05.980 And that's what we have to do with him in the court of public opinion.

01:43:09.060 I'd love to get in front of this guy.

01:43:10.720 I'm dying for one of the reporters.

01:43:12.280 I urge you, any of the reporters who are down there, you get up in his face and you say,

01:43:16.260 why did you beat a baby?

01:43:18.480 Why did you beat a baby?

01:43:20.660 Why did you plead guilty? 0.79

01:43:22.480 Why should we listen to you when you beat infants? 0.98

01:43:25.100 Why don't we try that?

01:43:26.180 Let's see how that goes over with Mr. Alexander.

01:43:28.980 Here's his latest messaging.

01:43:30.740 Take a listen.

01:43:31.440 An all, all white jury convicted him in two to three hours.

01:43:42.180 We know that they did not approve their case.

01:43:47.040 They are currently sentencing Carmelo Anthony.

01:43:50.300 But we know that the Next Generation Action Network put the first $10,000 towards an

01:43:56.940 appellate attorney. And we will fight Collin County like hell. I respected this process.

01:44:05.420 I allowed and called for peace in this process. But black America should be very upset about what 0.98

01:44:12.380 went on today. He's got a four degree conviction, Megan. Yeah, but they're trying to create a powder

01:44:21.480 keg down there. He he's trying to create a powder keg. It's not going to work. I mean, I just find

01:44:26.620 it funny. I'm not sure exactly what the relationship is, but, you know, I always said in the practice

01:44:30.680 of law, clients tend to reflect their lawyers and lawyers tend to reflect their clients. The fact

01:44:35.460 that this is the best spokesperson they can come out to protest the innocence of Carmelo Anthony.

01:44:40.200 I mean, that tells you everything you need to know is that nobody with a conscience and with the absence of a criminal record would do it themselves.

01:44:46.680 But first of all, like Ashley said, I do wish also they had had cameras in the courtroom.

01:44:50.620 It would have avoided a lot of this. I don't chalk it up to the imbecility of the judge, but rather maybe, you know, they wanted to respect the victims in the process.

01:44:57.620 But it would have resolved a lot of questions and assuaged a lot of concerns.

01:45:01.260 The three hours also, like Ashley says, there's no there's no O.J. Simpson.

01:45:05.280 I didn't do it in this case. What there is, is I did it.

01:45:08.440 I admit that I did it, not alleged. And the only question is whether or not I was in sincere fear of imminent bodily harm when I stabbed him in the chest. And it is just so preposterous to say, well, he only stabbed him once. And if the argument had been from the beginning, you know, I just flipped out, show mercy on me. Then you could say, well, you know, the death penalty was not on the table here, but I think morally it could have been.

01:45:33.180 Then you could say, well, then we can discuss attenuating circumstances, remorse, all that other stuff.

01:45:37.980 He compounded his murder by trying to blame it on the victim and still asserting that now further compounds his own guilt.

01:45:46.380 And there's just there was no room for any doubt as to whether or not he did it.

01:45:49.760 And by all accounts, there was no room for any doubt as to whether or not it was legitimate, proportionate self-defense.

01:45:54.860 It was murder straight up and he got what he deserved.

01:45:57.460 That is to say, this is why some of these antics that we're seeing outside of the courthouse and from commentators on court TV, this is why this jury does need to be sequestered, sequestered if it takes overnight tonight, Ashley, because we just got word from inside the courthouse that the judge is going to let them deliberate until six.

01:46:18.980 I'm actually not sure if that's Central Time or East Coast time.

01:46:23.180 And then he's going to send them back at Central.

01:46:25.640 OK, so 6 p.m. Central Time back to the hotel if they need more time so that they don't

01:46:30.620 go home and they don't turn on their TV and see this nonsense coming at them.

01:46:36.520 Right.

01:46:36.700 I'd be worried that people may even go to their houses.

01:46:38.900 I mean, it's not that hard to get this information.

01:46:40.720 I know they've tried to protect the jurors, but I would be terrified of that, you know,

01:46:44.060 what we're seeing outside of the courtroom.

01:46:46.260 And I just, you know, I agree with everyone.

01:46:47.740 And I cannot understand why they chose this guy to be the mouthpiece of this case.

01:46:52.620 It just makes absolutely no sense.

01:46:54.340 We're not talking.

01:46:55.140 That's who they are.

01:46:55.700 I mean, we're not talking about someone who was, you know, in a protest and has a disorderly

01:46:59.000 conduct.

01:46:59.440 And you're like, OK, whatever.

01:47:00.880 I mean, we're talking about someone who has been arrested, at least I think when you were

01:47:04.420 naming it probably five times.

01:47:05.880 I mean, I don't know how many times have you ever had the police called on you, Megan?

01:47:09.000 Me?

01:47:09.480 None.

01:47:09.780 I mean, most people go through there and say, right, no arrests.

01:47:12.340 I'm pretty sure everyone here, never, you know.

01:47:14.820 So most people have gone through our entire lives without having the police at our house, without ever being arrested.

01:47:19.900 And he's had it, what, five, six, seven times.

01:47:22.000 And that's who they found to be their spokesperson for, you know, this this entire case and this entire movement that they're trying to do.

01:47:28.800 It's just it's really bad judgment.

01:47:31.280 But I think that sort of pervades this entire case, the family and their judgment.

01:47:35.620 And, you know, Mr. Anthony's judgment.

01:47:37.320 I mean, all of their judgment is just it's a tragedy.

01:47:39.760 And it's really, I think, led to this outcome that could have been avoided if he had pled guilty, if he had taken responsibility, if he had owned up to his mistakes.

01:47:48.960 I think we could have seen, you know, something less tragic than what we see here.

01:47:54.440 Well, and not only that, but Viva, you just said I wanted to ask you something, a follow up.

01:47:58.020 You said they tried to blame Austin Metcalf for his own demise.

01:48:02.460 And it's true. 0.98

01:48:03.460 Not only did they do that by saying, like, somehow he was the aggressor, but when the defense lawyer got up there and made his closing argument, he actually had the nerve to suggest that Austin Metcalf threw himself on the knife, that there had actually been witness testimony suggesting he may have thrown himself on the knife, which is insulting.

01:48:29.180 That's insulting to the jury.

01:48:30.560 It's insulting to the jury.

01:48:32.100 It's insulting to the victim.

01:48:33.460 victimizes the family again yet he threw himself on the knife it's like the m&m lyrics yeah she

01:48:38.640 slipped and fell on his blank in order to explain her infidelity it is it's atrocious and again it

01:48:45.260 compounds the guilt and the guilty intent that they go to such lengths to try to blame the victim

01:48:50.320 calling austin a thug and say oh he was a 220 pound he knew jujitsu and so this kid was so scared so

01:48:58.400 scared that you don't just back up and go away. And if you think Austin assaulted you when he

01:49:03.720 touched your shoulder, go get the cops. I made the joke. Had Carmelo Anthony gone to the cops

01:49:08.820 and said, Austin assaulted me when he pushed me in my shoulder, they would have laughed the kid

01:49:13.120 out of the room. And yet somehow he thinks that that assault, which I don't think ever existed

01:49:17.240 in the first place, even if it's simple assault, justifies lethal force. It's not just that he

01:49:22.740 made bad decisions at the time compounding them and then suggesting that it was austin's fault

01:49:28.780 and then racializing it right after i mean that that evidence is the nefarious intent of the kid

01:49:35.040 and i dare say of the family as well and i don't like to bring in the family for the acts of their

01:49:38.880 kids but you know raising three quarters of a million dollars on the basis of racism when you

01:49:43.420 know damn well what your kid did and then playing along with victimizing the victim yet again

01:49:47.620 It shows ill intent throughout the entire family. 0.97

01:49:50.960 Yes.

01:49:51.720 And not only did he do that to Metcalfe and his family, the victim, but he smeared the kids at Memorial High School, too.

01:50:01.660 Their witnesses that their lawyers put on tried to say that it was a mob that surrounded Carmelo Anthony.

01:50:09.400 You know, like, we're going to get him, making them look like a bunch of thugs who are going to gang up on some untold numbers on one kid, this one poor kid in the middle of this mob.

01:50:21.920 And that was all lies.

01:50:24.120 The prosecutor disproved that by playing the video.

01:50:28.100 Thank God there was a video.

01:50:29.740 Apparently it was grainy.

01:50:30.740 We haven't yet seen it.

01:50:31.560 They haven't released all of this.

01:50:33.400 But that showed that nothing of the sort happened.

01:50:36.540 The only time a crowd gathered was after Carmelo stabbed Austin.

01:50:42.280 And then, yeah, a crowd gathered.

01:50:44.180 Some people ran.

01:50:45.120 Some people ran to Austin's side to try to help him, his brother among them.

01:50:49.500 But this is like, these were lies that they were desperate.

01:50:52.280 There was a defense to be made.

01:50:54.100 As you guys have pointed out, he could have taken the stand.

01:50:56.760 He could have said, I did not.

01:51:00.800 I was overwhelmed.

01:51:02.120 He was bigger than I thought he was.

01:51:03.580 When he laid hands on me, I got scared and I realized I'd gotten myself into a lot of trouble.

01:51:08.880 And in an instant, I reacted and I greatly regret it.

01:51:13.180 You know, in the heat, it was a heat of a passion kind of thing.

01:51:15.320 You're setting up the involuntary manslaughter at best or just some sort of manslaughter.

01:51:19.500 But he didn't do any of that.

01:51:21.240 They attacked the Metcalfe family.

01:51:22.940 They attacked Austin Metcalfe posthumously.

01:51:25.880 They besmirched the high school students who were there and traumatized by what Anthony did.

01:51:33.300 They played the race card at every turn.

01:51:35.340 They took people's money and went and lived in a mansion. 1.00

01:51:38.400 The lawyer sucked. 0.99

01:51:40.480 That's what happened here. 0.99

01:51:42.560 And now I don't know what this jury is going to hand down for a sentence.

01:51:47.080 We're going to wrap it because we're not going to stay on the air for another two hours waiting for this.

01:51:51.820 But this just in from Marianne Martinez, The Daily Mail.

01:51:55.620 Back in court after a break, lawyers and judge have been working on the charging document the jury in the trial will be using to determine his sentence.

01:52:04.720 And so what would you expect that to sound like, Imran?

01:52:08.100 Like what basically are they going to tell the jury?

01:52:10.780 Well, certainly they're going to read the sentencing, the aspects of the sentencing to the jury and the charges that he's convicted and what he would be pasting.

01:52:21.960 They're going to send that jury back and they're going to render a decision on the sentencing phase here.

01:52:26.240 Right. So this is this is the fact that they kept this jury.

01:52:29.980 It's happening fast. The judge wants to keep this going.

01:52:33.060 And I think the judge wants to keep this going because there's a real chance that there's going to be events with it between now and let's say tomorrow that could affect the judgment of these jurors.

01:52:45.700 So I would expect that the judge wants to keep this going, they want the sentence to come down rather expeditiously and for the safety of not only those jurors, but everyone around that courthouse to clear that courthouse and move on.

01:53:00.180 mm-hmm yeah um i think it's the right move to have them sequestered you know just in case um

01:53:07.780 we certainly hope uh that that's what's going to happen that they will remain sequestered if they

01:53:12.280 need the night to think on this to study this case but i don't know you tell me ashley what do

01:53:20.320 you what what's a fair sentence for this crime i wouldn't be surprised if they make a decision

01:53:24.880 tonight and you know what happens that the jury charges on these types of things are aggravating

01:53:29.700 circumstances versus mitigating circumstances. So what they're going to tell the jury they have

01:53:33.720 to do is they have to consider the aggravation, you know, how awful it was, you know, any prior

01:53:39.100 instances where maybe he has some prior instances where he's done something wrong.

01:53:43.080 That's what you consider an aggravation. And then in mitigation is, you know, his mom's statement

01:53:47.320 doesn't sound like we heard a whole lot of mitigation. So if there's not a lot, I don't

01:53:52.020 think the jury is going to take a whole lot of time coming to their, you know, coming to their

01:53:55.640 decision. And it's Texas. I mean, this kid went to trial. He did not beg for mercy. He did not

01:54:02.160 take the stand in his own defense. He did not admit to wrongdoing and say he was sorry and

01:54:07.360 beg for forgiveness. And I think because of that, I think they're going to give him every day they

01:54:10.800 can. Yeah, that's what I would do. We're going to go out the air now and await news on the

01:54:17.280 sentencing, which we will bring to you all tomorrow. Thank you all so much for coming on

01:54:22.020 on such short notice

01:54:23.060 and offering your expertise.

01:54:24.400 A pleasure to see you all.

01:54:25.420 We appreciate it.

01:54:26.600 Thanks to all of you

01:54:27.340 for listening and tuning in

01:54:28.640 and God rest Austin Metcalf

01:54:31.920 and God bless this jury

01:54:33.300 as it wrestles

01:54:34.000 with yet another tough decision.

01:54:36.120 We'll see you tomorrow.

01:54:38.220 Thanks for listening

01:54:38.840 to The Megyn Kelly Show.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - June 10, 2026

Karmelo Anthony GUILTY of Murder - Megyn Kelly's Expert Legal Breakdown, with Holloway, Eiglarsh, Aronberg, Merchant and More

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