Kathie Lee Gifford on God's Importance, Regis Philbin, The Kardashians, and Her Career ｜ Ep. 49
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 11 minutes
Words per Minute
182.61087
Summary
Kathie Lee Gifford joins me on The Megyn Kelly Show to talk about her new job as a morning anchor on NBC's Today Show, how she got her start at Fox News, and why she decided to go all in on being a doer of good.
Transcript
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Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
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Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.
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Today on the program, we've got Kathie Lee Gifford, who I adore, and I know you will too.
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This is a woman who, back when I was at Fox News and I got the afternoon show,
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it was my first gig as a solo anchor, out of the blue without me knowing her,
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sent me a bouquet of flowers. Then I got promoted to primetime, and I got a huge bouquet of flowers
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and a nice note from her. I don't, like, I don't even know her. She was just being kind out of the
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blue to a stranger. Then when I finally went over to NBC, she was the first one to come and congratulate
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me and offer to take me out to lunch, which we then did religiously for months. And, you know,
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of course there are these great booze fests at her favorite restaurant. We had so much fun. She was
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always looking out for me, always wishing me well, like genuinely wishing me well. And honestly,
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telling me behind the scenes what to watch out for, who to watch out for, and what issues I might be
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facing in my new place of employment. I mean, that is a friend. That is a good person. And that's how
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she's lived her life. She's done so much good for this world. She is a doer of good. She is somebody
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who focuses her life on putting out goodness into the world. And it has shown. And I think in this
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difficult time that our country's going through right now, you're going to find her message really
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refreshing. And I'll just tell you something, honestly. So we taped these intros after we do
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the interview. And I had said to my team, I'm not sure, you know, given how tumultuous things are in
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the country right now, is this, do we need to hold this interview? You know, it could be a little
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lighter. This is before we taped it. This is a little lighter. Maybe we should move this like a
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little later on like to the following week or something. And we kind of all said, well, let's see how it
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goes and see how it feels. And when it was done, we had a conversation about how, in fact,
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it's the perfect conversation to be having right now. Somebody on my team said, I feel lighter.
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And Canadian Debbie, you know, heartless, soulless Canadian Debbie actually cried,
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saying how much better she felt. You know, I kid because I love Debbie. But we're all kind of
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feeling it. She has a very inspirational message and it kind of left me feeling like, okay, we're
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going to be okay and we can do better and we must. Anyway, she's coming up in one minute and I promise
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you, you're going to enjoy the conversation. But before we get to her, it's the new year, as you
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Kathy Lee Gifford. Kathy Lee Gifford, so excited to have you here. Thank you for doing this.
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Hello, old pal. And I don't mean old, but long time. How are you?
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Getting older by the second sister, but it's fine. But it beats the alternative, as they say.
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It's a delight to hear your voice and your laugh. And I think you're a great person to be talking to
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right now because I've talked to you during tough times and good times in your life and mine. And
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you always have a way of making me feel better. I think it's your connection to faith and God. So
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let me start with the broad, broad brush question of how do we, how do we get back to that feeling as
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a country of that feeling of community, of being united, although, you know, not necessarily an
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ideology, but just not hateful toward one another, toward wellness instead of constant hurt,
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anger, and pain, where it feels like we've spent a lot of time lately.
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You know what I learned a long, long time ago, Megan, was when I was right with God vertically,
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things in my life and relationships in my life and experiences in my life that went out horizontally
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from me were peaceful, were not full of chaos, had purpose, had design to them, had a craftsmanship to
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them, had a reasonableness to them. I think because we're doing everything horizontally in our own power,
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we're screwing absolutely everything up. And that's everybody on every side of every aisle.
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You know, when I am right with God, I'm right with the world. I treat people the way God would
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treat them. I think right thoughts. I, I, I'm generous. I'm loving and kind when I'm right with
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God. When I'm not, I don't act that way. And the world is not a better place. It all comes down to
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what is our relationship with God. And you know me well enough to know that I do not mean,
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I mean the antithesis of religion. I do not mean religion. I mean a personal walk and relationship
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with the loving eternal God. And that is what my life is all about. Scripture says in him,
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we live and move and have our very being. And if I am concentrating on him and his love for me,
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and, and, and I find profound peace in knowing I am loved perfectly by him, it enables me to love
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other people in his name. It's as simple as that. You know, it feels like there are massive
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consequences to the nation becoming more and more godless. They, they, they, they fill the space with
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other things that are, that by definition are less meaningful, but also tend to involve a lot of
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negative energy. And then B, as you point out, it, it doesn't inspire you in that vertical way,
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such that those positive rays spew out horizontally and make all of your actions
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better. I just, I do think there have been real consequences to the removal of pay of faith from
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the public square. And really let's face it from our personal squares as well over the past 10, 20 years.
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No question. No question. When we think that we know better than God,
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we've made ourselves to be God and we are equipped for that job. I don't know about you, but I'm not
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equipped to be God. And, and I rely on him for everything. And it, and it's not like holding on to
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your, your Bibles and your, your guns kind of relying. I don't mean any of that political rhetoric
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that we throw around as well. I mean, when I live my life according to his, not commandments,
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but his suggestions, you know, God doesn't give us his, these, the so-called the 10 commandments
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because he wants to control us. He could have made us robots if he wanted to control us. He gave us
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like a guidebook of, if you do this, this blessing will follow. If you do this, you will have a good
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life in the land, the land I promised you. If you love, honor your mother and father. I mean,
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it's just, it's all, it's all perfect instruction to live a life full of peace. Jesus said in this
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world, you will have trouble, but then he said, but take courage for I have overcome the world.
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And so when we see the chaos all around you, I keep saying to myself, but this was not a surprise to
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God. Sovereign God is either sovereign God or he's not God at all. God is on his throne,
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no matter what the television shows you. I know that God is on his throne and nothing happens
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without him knowing it. And if we seek him, he will heal our heart. He'll heal our land. He will heal
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our relationships. But if we keep going about our life without giving him his glory and his due,
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we will reap the consequences, not of his wrath, just of being separated from him.
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Hell is separation from God. That's what hell is.
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I think about it when I see images on our television over the past year of infighting amongst Americans
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and literally fires burning. I mean, fires, you mentioned hell, fires burning on the, on the,
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on the streets of America, on our, at our U S Capitol and elsewhere. And it's, it's just daunting.
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You know, each one of us feels like, what can I do? And frankly, I've been guilty of this too,
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of instead of trying to be a healing force, you get pissed off and you start firing your own
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rhetorical bullets, you know, and some, and, and in some ways that can be soothing, right? Cause
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somebody, people hear their worldview expressed and they sort of feel represented,
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but you know, in other ways that like the net net doesn't leave you feeling good.
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No, it doesn't. And it may give you this, you know, instant gratification, but words have
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consequences. They go forward, but nothing goes forward more than the word of God. And it never
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returns void. So if I have a choice to choose life or death, I'm going to choose words of life and pass
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those on because it's the greatest guarantee that God's word will never return void. If you speak
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truth in a spirit of love, nothing wrong with telling people the truth, but make sure that you
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speak it in a way that is loving and, and the, and the, um, the, your, your, your motivation behind
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it is to be a peacemaker, not, I mean, I'm going to be in the construction business,
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not the destruction business. And that's what we way too often see is people that want to tear down
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something that they don't like and build it with something that they would like with no thought to
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who it would hurt in the process. You know, I mean, we've come so far from, you know, ask not what
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your country can do for us, but you can do for your country. Does anybody even remember who said that
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anymore? I think they'd be surprised to Google it. You know, we've come a gazillion miles from that.
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And, um, Jesus said when, when the Pharisees and the Sadducees were trying to trick him about
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what's the greatest commandment, what's, what, how do I keep the law, all of that stuff. And Jesus said,
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love, love God with all your heart and your soul and your might and in basically your entire being.
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And the second commandment, best commandment is like it and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
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Well, he did not mean that person who lives next door to you. Of course, he includes that,
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but our neighbor is everybody that we share our planet with. Our neighbor is every other child
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of God that lives out there. In other words, all of creation. But we like to pick and choose the
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neighborhoods we live in, don't we? I'll tell you what though, you say, speak truth in the spirit of
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love. And I think I can no longer do the news. I have to leave Twitter. I can't talk about the
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news anymore. You can't, there's, there's no spirit of love in the news whatsoever, which has
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been a frustration of mine in it. And why I know you, you never consider yourself as having been in
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the news business. You're an entertainer, your time with reach and so on. And then I see why you're
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too kind of person. You're, you're too well positive. And well, I don't know. I think there's
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something about the news business that attracts us dark forces. You're too damn well, Kathy Lee.
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No, you know what I've learned? I learned a long, long time ago. And I learned it from Billy,
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the friend that I, Billy Graham, that you and I've spoken with on the air. And gee, that went more than
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viral. That went all over the world. Billy, Billy was very wise when he told me basically, Kathy,
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just keep telling people that God loves them. Let that be your message all the time. The few times that
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I did get caught up in something political, I regret it. I should have stayed on the message
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of Jesus's love, God's love for his world, for his creation, because that doesn't divide us,
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that unites us. Anything else has, has, has got the power to divide, but God's love heals. God's love
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restores. God's love redeems. All the things we need in our world today come from one source alone.
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It's not going to be passed. You can't pass love in legislation. It's not going to happen on Capitol Hill.
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As you mentioned, you're not, you're not into organized religion at all, but I'll tell you a
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story. My, my friend, Melissa Francis, who works at Fox news did. Oh, I love Melissa. She's a
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sweetheart. She's awesome. She used to star on Little House on the Prairie, which is a whole other
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story and an awesome one, but she, um, she, she told the story. She actually told it publicly,
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but she told me privately first that she was at her church in New York city, um, two years ago,
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I want to say. And there she was in the news business Monday through Friday, but on Sunday
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in, in church. And the priest started railing on Fox news. What is going on? I don't want this in
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here. I'm trying to avoid politics in this moment and go to my better angels, you know,
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trying to go back to the well and get, and get a fresh cup of mercy that you need. Yeah. That's
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neither the time nor the place for, um, for that kind of a message. I really do believe that I,
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I'm not against people going to church by any means. I just church stopped meaning anything to
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me years ago when I, when I didn't hear anybody teaching rabbinically, which means the true source
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of the scriptures, the Greek in the new Testament, the Hebrews in the old, that's the only way I want
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scripture taught to me. So I go to, um, the rabbis and I go to messianic rabbis to teach me. I go to
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Israel and I study where these things actually happened. And I, I, I, and I study in a, in a
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geopolitical and a contextual way, what was going on then? What, what were the Sadducees and the
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Pharisees? What did Jesus mean by this? Why would Jesus curse a fig tree? And when you start to learn
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rabbinically, what all of that actually means, scriptures come to life and you get the power you
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need in, in, in your daily life, I know exactly what Melissa means. I, I went to ABC and NBC every
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day for years and years and years and, and gave of myself as much as I could tried to be the best
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performer. I could be the best friend to anybody that was, that I worked with. That was my mission
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field. I did. I wasn't a missionary to, to Africa. I was a missionary at NBC and at ABC and countless
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lives were changed as a result of it. And people used to say to me, how can you call yourself a
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Christian and be, you know, I go, because that's where God's called me to go love people. Where
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would you have me go? I'm going to go where God tells me to go. And I, you know, I, I, I want to
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get a t-shirt made. I'll give one to you. Make it what I get up. I'm so sorry, but I think you're
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confusing me with someone who thinks that your opinion matters to me. It doesn't matter.
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I already have that t-shirt. It just has STFU on it and it, it communicates in a shorter,
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more short form. It works for me. All right. So now let, let me ask you this. Just in the past
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couple of months, you've released a book called it's never too late. And you have released your
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movie that you were working on when we were working together, um, shortly after you left NBC.
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And, and, and during called then came used during Craig Ferguson, who's quite dreamy.
00:17:16.880
Yeah. Um, so like, you're very busy. That's very clear. You've been doing a lot and I know
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you've got a gazillion other books and projects coming out, but I loved the beginning of the book
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because you, you talk about labels and how you're at a point where they could define you. If you let
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them saying right now, at this point in my life, I'm 67. You say, I'm a widow. I'm an empty nester.
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God forbid saying it out loud. I'm a senior citizen and I'm alone.
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For the first time in my life. Right. Cause your kids are, are off. So when I read you sort of frame
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it up that way, because I just know you as this like kick-ass professional woman, who's constantly
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go, go, go, go, go, going. Um, I thought, how's that going? Right. When you think about it that way
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alone for the first time in your life, how's that going?
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You know, um, I've never been so happy as I am right now. Honestly, if you would have told me
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that the age of 67 living in a brand new place after all these years, my husband gone for five
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years, my kids, you know, married now bless them and, and, and living on, you know, uh, actually
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my daughter and her husband have moved here to Tennessee and her husband. So I'm, I'm, I get to
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see them a little bit more cause you know, they're newlyweds and always need something.
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But, um, and Cody is, and I, I'm, I'm praying one day he and his beautiful wife, Erica will,
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you know, whatever. I just want them to live their lives. I, I have a life every morning that is so
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filled with joy, with projects, with friends who there's always music in my home. There's always
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meetings yesterday on, on like three different films that I'm producing right now. Um, some of
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them with my son, seeing, uh, new people moving into Tennessee, many of them from California because
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the, you know, the lifestyle in California is, is, is no longer paradise out there. So people that,
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I mean, there is, nobody has like jam fest every single night, anywhere in the country that I know
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of, except for right here in Tennessee. Every night, somebody's at my house playing piano or
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guitar or, or, or writing or work. So it's constant creativity. I was surrounded in one of the most
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beautiful places in the world in Greenwich, Connecticut, but, but my neighbors were tended
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to be, um, you know, um, um, people in the, uh, tech world, people in the financial world, you know,
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and those people don't usually want to come over and play guitar and write songs with me.
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I could write all day long and all night with the amount and they're brilliant. So, you know,
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when we're created in the image of God, and I believe we are, cause scripture says so,
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then we are to be, we're at our happiness when we are also creating. I had a little children's book
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out this year as well called Hello Little Dreamer about how God places his dreams in our little
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beings, even as we were being formed in our mother's womb. And, and I know that's true because
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I came out of my mother's womb with a pratfall and a, and a rim shot and a, let's put on a show
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attitude. He, God made me that way for a reason. And I am happiest when I'm doing those things.
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Then I'm happiest when I'm doing those things for his glory, like my, the, the, um, oratorios and
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things that I'm writing now. And I have a, uh, one and a half hour one that will be, um, hopefully
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released at, um, during Holy week coming up at Easter time. You've been prolific in your songwriting,
00:20:43.980
starring on Broadway, now making films. And one of the things that stood out to me, and I actually
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didn't know this, um, from your book was one of the, um, one of the Broadway shows that you did,
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uh, was called under the bridge. And you write about how you saw an interesting pair sitting in
00:21:02.300
the audience, very chummy and getting along. Can you tell us about that? Yes. Yes. It was opening
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night, uh, off Broadway at a little, um, theater called zipper, which is no longer there sadly, but
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it was just fun and just really, really low, low, low down and fun. And I, and I'm in the audience
00:21:22.160
with my family for the, and I look over and there's Donald Trump sitting next to Rosie O'Donnell
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and Melania was on the other side of Donald and Donald and Rosie are laughing and talking
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and sharing M&M and, and just as happy as clams. And I, and I, and I do write about it. I said,
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you know, sometimes I miss the good old days, both of them friends of mine at the time that both of
00:21:44.160
them, you don't have to believe the way I believe to be my friend, Megan. I've taken so many trips to
00:21:50.160
Israel with people that don't, don't, don't believe what I believe either politically or
00:21:55.060
spiritually, but they're beautiful people and I love them. And I've always felt that our common
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ground in life, um, is, is sacred ground. It just is. If we can find some common ground that we share
00:22:10.680
as human beings, that's the beginning of, of something sacred. And that's what the word holy
00:22:16.500
means. Holy means set apart for sacred use. I love that. And something holy comes out of just loving
00:22:24.580
people and not stop insisting that they've got to mirror your every thought, but where did it turn
00:22:30.840
out to be tolerant, to be canceling people? That's the antithesis of tolerance, right? You've lived a life
00:22:38.180
of forgiveness. I mean, this must be completely antithetical to you, this unforgiving nature.
00:22:44.420
Yeah. It's the exact, it's the exact opposite of the way Jesus lived his life. And he's the only
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person that I follow completely that, that never lied to me, that never let me down, that has always
00:22:57.240
lived the life that I want to emulate myself. I can't, of course, I'm not God, but, um, he lives inside
00:23:04.640
me. And so we choose, we make heroes out of human beings and that's our biggest mistake. You know, when
00:23:11.160
people make me a hero, I'm uncomfortable with it. I always say, no, no, no, no, no. I'm the way I am
00:23:16.440
because look over there, look over there that, see that guy, look to him, look to him. More with
00:23:23.300
Kathie Lee in just one second. But first it's finally a new year, the perfect time to take your
00:23:28.660
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Not only are we writing people off forever who make mistakes, but we're, we're demanding a perfect
00:24:57.660
life. You know, there's, there's no more grace. There's no more, you know, humanity with a,
00:25:03.160
with a shoulder shrug. This is, it's been thus from the beginning of time. It isn't a new phenomenon
00:25:08.700
to see people try, fail, be imperfect, make mistakes, do stupid things, take risks that don't
00:25:14.320
work out, whatever it is. Only now have we morphed into this very strange place of what is required
00:25:20.840
is perfection of moral character and moral characters defined by somebody else.
00:25:27.460
They don't keep the same standard for themselves. They want perfection from me and from you,
00:25:33.580
but they don't live perfect life, nor do they think that they should. That's the ultimate and,
00:25:39.020
and almost, it's not hysterical, but the, the hysterical hypocrisy of it all, that they can't
00:25:45.320
see that. And it comes from every side, every side. And it would break my heart if my heart wasn't so
00:25:54.680
full of love for people. It would, because hurt people hurt people. And when I'm, when I'm tempted
00:26:00.800
to, to hate in response to people who hurt, I'm reminded by the one who was hurt for me
00:26:08.040
on a cross in, in Jerusalem, 2000 and some years ago, you know, that God sent his son to die for me.
00:26:18.500
His perfect son died for me and for you, Megan, you and I've talked a lot about this.
00:26:22.900
And for everyone he had ever created so that we could learn where to take our hurt.
00:26:29.600
We take him to the one who, although he is perfection, he were to appear to us today,
00:26:34.480
you would still see the scars. The scars will never disappear. Ours do, but not his.
00:26:41.220
When we were together at NBC, um, the audience should know Kathy Lee was so good to me. She,
00:26:46.340
she was the best person there to me and, um, asked if, if we could do a lunch once a week.
00:26:52.960
And I, of course was thrilled for the invitation. And we did that for weeks on end and, um, had way
00:26:59.040
too much wine and delicious food. And, uh, it was really special moments. And I, and I, I do think
00:27:05.260
back in that now, because you won't be surprised to hear. I, I do have many negative feelings about
00:27:10.880
my time at NBC, but I also have a lot of wonderful, wonderful memories. You're one of them and just
00:27:18.120
your friendship and your, and, and I do think about it, Kathy Lee, because we talked about faith
00:27:22.700
a lot and forgiveness. And I know you've lived it. You know, you write about that and the whole Frank
00:27:28.200
being set up and he had an affair and while one night stand with a woman, but it was all set up by
00:27:32.700
a tablet. Now he did it, but you don't deny that. But anyway, the point is if you wanted to be bitter,
00:27:37.480
you could be bitter. And we talked about not being bitter. And I, I tell you, ironically,
00:27:42.840
you, my friend from NBC have been somebody whose words have helped me not become bitter
00:27:47.620
in the wake of that exit. Um, yeah, you know, it's, I don't have the greatest feelings over some of our
00:27:53.480
old colleagues, but if you hold onto that, what's the saying that, that, that, that, um, acid
00:28:03.260
corrodes the vessel in which it's held more than the subject on which it's poured, right? Something
00:28:08.460
like that. Mark Twain. I've never heard it put that way, but it's, I've always said that forgiveness
00:28:12.580
hurts the person who can't forgive far more than the person who needs the forgiveness. I think I
00:28:19.120
used the concept with you when I was on about Billy, which is about that, that sin is, is the, um,
00:28:25.800
uh, what is it of the, it's the cancer. It's the carcinogenic of the soul, you know, the malignancy
00:28:32.980
of the soul. That's the word I use. And we all have malignancies in our souls that need to be
00:28:40.080
surgically removed. If they just do, or they will kill us. And the worst is unforgiveness. The worst.
00:28:47.980
Okay. But let's talk Turkey. How, how, how have you managed it? Right. I know in the book and in
00:28:54.620
our lives, you've told me about the Howard Stern thing. That's one thing, the Frank thing that I,
00:29:00.560
I love the way you write about it. I mean, that's a weird thing to say, you know, talking about an
00:29:03.740
infidelity, but look, a lot of marriages have suffered it. And, and you, you say you realized
00:29:08.120
that the person, um, the person you love most can hurt you the most, right? Like that's,
00:29:14.120
that's the vulnerability and the risk of loving. Yeah. They have the most power to hurt you.
00:29:19.340
Yeah. You know, you write in the book about how one year you get accused of running this
00:29:24.020
sweatshop by some activist who was looking to shut down your, your charity. You were giving all of
00:29:30.620
your money to babies with AIDS, trying to find them housing. The next year, the thing happens with
00:29:35.460
Frank or some tabloid, some sick tabloid pays a woman $75,000 to seduce your husband. Women of the
00:29:41.260
world. Can you imagine? So what, what does that version of you look like? And how,
00:29:46.480
how do you pull yourself up out of that kind of despair?
00:29:49.820
Well, it's always, um, moment by moment. You do, you look to the source of all healing.
00:29:55.080
And, um, uh, if I stopped believing in God and stopped believing that he had a purpose for
00:30:00.280
everything in my life, even, even sweatshop accusations, even infidelity, that God could
00:30:06.600
bring beauty out of the ashes of my life and that he is promises are true. And he would
00:30:12.880
use even this for his glory if I would allow him to. So I will never forget when I was going
00:30:20.480
through the sweatshop thing. Um, I met with, um, the activist and the young woman who said
00:30:26.840
that, uh, she had worked in one of my so-called factories, which I never had a factory, but
00:30:31.420
okay. But she said she did and, um, made the clothes that, that we were selling at Walmart
00:30:37.900
in, in America and around the world. And, uh, and we met over at, um, I'm going to try to remember
00:30:43.740
a father, uh, Cardinal O'Connor's home, uh, right across the street from, uh, from the church.
00:30:49.560
Cause we thought that that would be a very, you know, good place to have this face to face
00:30:54.720
meeting. And I prayed of course, before I went in there and I said, Lord, Lord, I don't
00:31:00.980
know why all of this is happening. It's so painful and so hurtful, but you know, you, you
00:31:06.120
have a reason for all things. Please show me and let me show grace and let me be you
00:31:13.140
shine me through me. I can't do it by myself. It was almost, I looked down and this young
00:31:19.260
woman, now, first of all, the activist could not look me in the eye and young woman had, uh,
00:31:25.120
nails on her, like, uh, like, um, beautiful red blood, red, long red fingernails. And I'm
00:31:32.640
thinking she doesn't look like she worked in a sweatshop, but maybe she just had them
00:31:37.680
put on. I don't know. But anyway, it's funny the things you remember. And as that meeting
00:31:41.940
was coming to an end, I get a message, handwritten note, the Cardinal would love to meet with you
00:31:47.380
privately afterwards. Would you meet him in this little room? And I said, of course,
00:31:51.120
yes. I had an emotion. Yes. So afterwards, you know, and I, my heart was just racing and
00:31:56.000
pounding. And, um, uh, I go into this little room and I'd have been, I mean, ripped to shreds
00:32:03.060
for about a month and a half in the tabloids. People were calling for me to be fired, get
00:32:08.860
the fire heard that they, everybody just, you know, wanted to assume. Yes, yes, yes. What's
00:32:12.820
up? This guy stood up in Congress and accused her. It must be true. And, and it was also that
00:32:17.720
they could get Walmart unionized. It had nothing to do with me. They were just using
00:32:22.080
me to, to, to, cause that was the means to the end that they wanted. So anyway, I knew
00:32:27.540
that it was quite, quite clear to me. But anyway, I went into the room and for the first
00:32:32.320
time in about six weeks, love greeted me. I am not a Catholic, but, but the Cardinal put
00:32:38.640
up out his arms to me to come in and embrace me. And he said, Oh, Kathy, I am so sorry
00:32:46.100
that they hurt you so. I mean, I'd known the man for a while. He knew my heart. He
00:32:51.520
says, I am so sorry. And then he looked at me and he said, but let me tell you
00:32:55.800
something. Our Lord did not change this world so much through his mirror as he did
00:33:03.760
through his suffering. And if you will receive this temporary suffering that you
00:33:10.080
are going through as a way to bring love and healing to the world, God will use
00:33:15.840
your suffering for good. And so what happened is I got my eyes off my own
00:33:21.580
pain and on the pain of people that really do suffer in, in sweatshops around
00:33:26.480
the world. Not that, that, not that I run, but that other people do. A sweatshop
00:33:31.140
cannot exist without greed and need. One person's greed and another person's
00:33:37.100
desperate need. There you have the makings of a sweatshop. I've never said it that
00:33:41.060
way before, but I wish I had, I wish I'd put that in the book because that's
00:33:43.920
exactly what it is. And I set out along with Frank to alleviate that. We got
00:33:48.820
legislation passed. I met with President Clinton down in Washington at the White
00:33:54.160
House once a month for the next year with the Labor Secretary Reich and
00:33:58.660
everybody else. And I'm not a political animal. That's the last place I wanted to
00:34:02.860
be. On the past his third birthday, I was down there. And I had to rush home to have
00:34:06.940
our birthday party in our backyard, you know. And at times like that, it's happened so
00:34:12.120
many times in my life where I go, what am I doing here? I'm an entertainer. What am I
00:34:17.940
doing in the Rose Garden making a speech, you know? Why do I testify in front of, you
00:34:23.260
know, Congress? But the same thing that happened the next year with, with Frank
00:34:28.020
when he was just so cavalier about what he'd done once he knew I'd forgiven him.
00:34:32.820
He just thought, well, all right, let's get back to life. And it was, he didn't realize how
00:34:37.700
damaged and hurt my heart was. And so I was going to counseling for that. And my, this
00:34:43.620
very fine man who had given us actually our premarital counseling many years earlier
00:34:48.900
said, Kathy, if you can't forgive your husband, forgive your children's father. And
00:34:56.700
once again, it took my eyes off my own suffering and, and it got them on what was
00:35:03.120
right, which was save my children's father, save my children's lives, save, save this
00:35:10.800
marriage, save this family. We love one another. We are doing good in this world. I am not
00:35:17.960
going to let the evil one destroy my marriage. I mean, I'm not going to let the evil one destroy
00:35:22.960
my walk with eternal God because of these injustices. Once I got my eyes on the right
00:35:29.540
thing, what am I calling you to be and do Kathy? First, what am I calling you to be? And
00:35:36.180
out of our being comes our doing. And again, it was getting, getting right vertically.
00:35:42.400
I do think when you go through turmoil, if you, if you keep your eyes open, God places little
00:35:50.020
angels along the way to help you, you know, and if you're just open-minded, you see, you know,
00:35:54.880
and it, and it, it, it comes unexpectedly, you know, I mean, I am just thinking as you're
00:35:58.880
talking about, um, when I left NBC and all the papers were saying terrible things about
00:36:04.240
me and online, it was just so vitriolic and awful. And, um, people were calling me a racist
00:36:09.720
and it was like, Oh my God, what's, what is going on? And I, I walked into my apartment
00:36:14.480
building and one of my doormen, his name's Solomon. He's black. He saw me and he goes,
00:36:21.920
Hey, he goes, just say, you know, I still think the world of you. I can still cry about it. It's
00:36:31.240
like just these little moments where you're like, okay, I'm okay. You know, like people,
00:36:35.400
some people can still see. Because if you were a racist, he would have known it of all people.
00:36:42.260
Yeah. Hello. Well, and I do think, you know, that's the kind of situation that can make you
00:36:48.600
angry and hold Harbor resentment, but now in the wake of what we've seen, you know, since then,
00:36:55.780
this wave of cancel culture and people being shown no grace for either legitimate mistakes or made up
00:37:02.840
mistakes, I've kind of looked at it a different way. Like maybe in the way you became a warrior
00:37:08.560
against sweatshops after being wrongly accused. I, it's not that I've become an activist exactly,
00:37:16.140
but I do speak out against cancel culture. I am open-minded to allegations of sexism and racism
00:37:22.060
and all of it. We haven't solved those problems, but I also, right. But I, but I also stand really
00:37:29.140
firmly against the elimination of grace and, and the summer, um, last summer was last summer. I got,
00:37:36.040
I started getting the weirdest thing started to happen as people started getting canceled left
00:37:40.740
and right, especially young people, teenagers, their parents started reaching out to me and I
00:37:46.080
started talking to a lot of them and trying to help them understand what's going on in the country
00:37:51.260
right now. And trying to chart a course of just setting their, their lives straight, like studying
00:37:59.060
the ship so they could get through the controversy and then sort of trying to come up with a good plan
00:38:03.660
to reemerge on the other side. Once the country's reclaimed its mind, right? Like once we've gone
00:38:09.020
back to the loving people we once were. How many kids committed suicide because somebody canceled
00:38:15.800
them, you know, canceled their life. It's, it's, you know, because we have allowed our culture to,
00:38:24.360
to, to determine who we are, to define us. And if I had let the world define me all the years that I've
00:38:31.440
in, in the, in the, in it, instead of understanding, letting my self-worth come from what God says
00:38:37.380
about me, you are precious to me. I love you. I sent my son for you to show you how to have life
00:38:45.240
abundantly and life eternally. I wrapped you in a robe of righteousness. I put a ring on your finger.
00:38:51.840
I betrothed you as my own. I mean, if you really believe that in your heart, there is nothing the
00:38:59.700
world can say about you that you will ever believe because Satan is the father of lies.
00:39:06.540
And the biggest lie is that you don't matter, that you are nothing, that you don't count in this world.
00:39:16.760
Nothing is a bigger life on the pit of hell than that. Every human being is precious.
00:39:23.820
You, you've never been content to just sit back and enjoy some of this joy and goodheartedness that
00:39:34.460
you've helped create in yourself with, with some help from above. But I mean, you, you've prioritized
00:39:40.300
your own wellness and joy. I've known, I've known that about you, but you've never been content to
00:39:44.480
just sit back and sort of say, nailed it. Right? Like you, you, you left Regis and Kathy Lee.
00:39:52.320
Never, never. You, you left Regis and Kathy Lee at its height. You were still killing it in the
00:39:57.960
ratings. This is huge, huge success. You left your show on NBC. Same. Um, I can relate to this just a
00:40:05.340
little because I, when I left the Kelly file, it was the number one show in all of cable news.
00:40:08.840
And, and, and you have something in your book saying people think you're crazy or incredibly
00:40:13.940
ungrateful when you walk away from that kind of success. You say, I was neither artists die on
00:40:19.900
the vine unless they are creating. And I had already squeezed every ounce of creative juice I had
00:40:25.000
out of my 15 amazing years. I love that. I wouldn't, I don't know if I'd call myself a creative person,
00:40:32.060
but I, I agree that if you're not doing something new, building new muscles, trying new things,
00:40:37.000
something more than just those skills will atrophy something inside of your spirit starts to
00:40:43.440
atrophy. You've been so good about not letting that happen.
00:40:48.260
Because my soul that is rotting and I, and I won't allow it to happen. I mean, I, each time I was,
00:40:55.580
you know, making tons and tons of money and, and not just for myself, but I take care of a whole lot
00:41:00.880
of people with that money. And it's crazy. The number of charities that she's involved with,
00:41:05.000
I just want the audience to know we could do the entire day on the amount of money that Kathy Lee
00:41:09.120
has given away, the number of houses she's built and charities she's funded. She, you don't talk
00:41:13.820
about it that much, but I know this is true. You're, you use that money for a lot of good.
00:41:18.540
And so I have, thank you, honey. And, but I have to weigh, well, Lord, if you are truly leading me
00:41:24.380
to Nashville, if that's the way, then Lord, your job is to take care of everybody. It's not mine.
00:41:30.560
Take that burden from me. Just find another way for this person to get this or that, or, or I just
00:41:37.880
don't let it be a burden to me any longer, Lord, because I'm, my soul is burdened that I am not in
00:41:45.320
your perfect will anymore. And, and, and I, as an artist, I'm, I'm, I'm, I, and in the culture,
00:41:51.620
the chaotic culture of the Northeast for 35 years or 40 years, I've been there now.
00:41:57.580
I, it was killing me, Megan, it was killing me. And, and once Frank was gone and the kids had moved
00:42:05.020
away and I'm in this beautiful, the most beautiful home. And I, but it was like a morgue to me.
00:42:11.400
And I, and I, there's a line in the movie, then came you, I say to her, Annabelle says to her
00:42:17.280
husband's ashes, I love you, Fred. And I always will, but, um, I got to make new memories of the
00:42:23.340
old ones are going to kill me and I'm not ready to die. Not yet. I love that line. I saw that.
00:42:29.600
I love that line. I've got to make new memories or the old ones are going to kill me. It goes back to
00:42:35.460
my fundamental advice to pulling yourself, yourself out of the depths, which is get off the couch.
00:42:41.400
Get out there. Yeah. Yeah. Just start doing proactive about it. Yeah. Right. Just something
00:42:46.720
new or something, just something other than the couch. And I feel like you stretching your wings
00:42:53.560
here, spreading your wings here and going down to Nashville, going back to your music roots,
00:42:58.980
you know, trying a new life out in your, you know, mid sixties, when you moved down there,
00:43:04.280
it's really pretty damn brave. It, it really is. It's pretty damn brave. And it's a great city for
00:43:09.400
you given all the, you know, the music and what we've talked about. Do you know it was made total
00:43:14.420
sense. Yeah. Do you like now when you look back at leaving Regis and Kathy Lee and leaving the today
00:43:20.020
show, does it, does it feel like they were both the right decisions? Oh, no, I've never regretted
00:43:26.280
either one ever, ever total, total, total peace about it. Um, always have. And, uh, and God led me
00:43:33.880
something different, uh, each time. And, and honestly, my life here is more joyful now because
00:43:39.520
it's, I have so much, um, fellowship in my faith. We meet all the time as believers and, and, and not
00:43:47.340
in a formal way, just, you know, just, just that the early churches were in homes. The first believers
00:43:53.160
met in homes. And, um, and those are the most intimate because you, you're very, very, um, uh,
00:43:59.880
uh, uh, love loving and to one another because you're, you're, and you are also held accountable
00:44:05.580
by one another. You know, you can be a, you know, a sinning on Saturday night, walking in
00:44:11.220
all nice and nice to everybody on Sunday morning, but, but you're not accountable to anybody there.
00:44:16.660
Well, stop ripping on that. That's what I love about Catholicism. You can still go in there on
00:44:20.340
Sunday, say the confession and you're good. You're clean.
00:44:26.180
I'm not putting it down. Hey, whatever floats your boat. Okay. But, um, no, I, um, I want a
00:44:33.020
genuine life and I want an authentic one. And I, last I looked in the Bible, not one person retired.
00:44:39.200
They all die. That's what they did. They died serving God, doing what he put them on this planet
00:44:45.300
to do. And that's why I write about, if you've got a pulse, you've got a purpose. It's God. My pulse is,
00:44:51.040
I, you know, just racing. I'm, I'm, I'm on fire with, you know, just so many projects,
00:44:57.840
so many loving, good things happening in my life that I've just rejoiced over. And, uh, and, and,
00:45:03.920
and the Lord had given me a word from a prophet friend of mine, uh, about a year or two ago,
00:45:09.360
right before I moved, I've lived here now for two years, but he said, Kathy, you are going to wake up
00:45:14.280
the season in your life that's coming up. You are going to wake up and laugh.
00:45:19.420
You will be laughing at what God has for you. And, and he will redeem every aspect of your life.
00:45:28.020
What, everything that you have lost in this world, he is going to redeem for you. Those promises are
00:45:34.040
not just for me, Megan. I wrote this book to encourage other people that God doesn't love me
00:45:40.400
more than anyone else. God's promises are for everyone, everyone. He requires that we trust him.
00:45:49.220
The one thing he, that the scripture says that pleases God is our faith. We have to believe
00:45:56.220
that what he says he's going to do, he will do for us. We can have momentary lapses, but we can't
00:46:02.540
stay in an attitude of unbelief and expect God's blessing. The blessings flow because we walk with
00:46:09.860
him, talk with him, sing with him, rejoice with him, pour out our hearts to him. All the blessings
00:46:16.920
flow out of relationship with him. He's not somebody we go and visit once a week in some building
00:46:25.660
somewhere. He's with us every now and second of our lives. And all he's doing for every person who's
00:46:34.020
listening right now to us, Megan, if they could just open up their heart and just say a little prayer.
00:46:40.620
I'm listening, Lord. Speak to me. Not a fancy prayer. Help me to trust you, Lord. Help me to believe in
00:46:48.420
you, Lord. I'm broken, Lord. Fix me, Lord. Just little heart cries. God hears heart cries.
00:46:55.660
He prefers them over long, windy, you know, boring. God gets bored with those tears. I mean,
00:47:01.500
those kinds of prayers too. You know, God knows the phonies. He knows the phonies from the sinner
00:47:08.300
who's crying out and saying, forgive me, Lord. I need your help.
00:47:14.440
More with Kathy Lee in just one second. I'm going to ask her about the reports that Kelly Ripa and Regis
00:47:20.180
did not get along and that he was ticked off at her for not being more grateful to him.
00:47:25.840
For giving her the opportunity of a lifetime and also about Regis's death and, you know,
00:47:31.380
how it affected Kathy and how she dealt with it. And by the way, did you know that she's the
00:47:36.220
godmother to two of the Kardashian girls? She's going to have a little fun report on the launch
00:47:41.700
of keeping up with the Kardashians. And I've got a story of my own. So stay tuned for all of that.
00:47:45.880
But before we get to it, let's talk about security. This new year, you may be excited about the new
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00:48:08.040
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00:48:14.560
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Save 25% or more off your first year right now at Norton.com slash MK. That's Norton.com
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slash MK to save 25%. So before we get back to Kathy Lee Gifford, I want to tell you,
00:49:10.360
this is a feature we call Real Talk here on the show. And just a moment on these losers over at
00:49:18.080
the Lincoln Project and these sort of never Trump nasty guys, tends to be guys. And I don't even know
00:49:25.320
what they are. Would you describe them as on the right, formerly of the right? They're all on the left
00:49:30.020
now, Steve Schmidt and so on. So I got a Twitter dust up with one of them recently because after
00:49:36.380
the riots on Capitol Hill, which I had been tweeting about as deeply wrong all day long,
00:49:43.660
I was getting annoyed because I was listening to the media go on and on about how they were right
00:49:50.980
Trump's terrible. His supporters really are deplorables. And the real lesson here is how
00:49:55.540
right the media has been. And I was really kind of, it was stomach turning to me. And I sent out a
00:50:00.780
tweet that read, and I quote, the Capitol riots are wrong, but the Trump critics using this as proof
00:50:05.960
that every criticism they've ever lobbed at Trump or his supporters has been validated is absurd.
00:50:11.980
So this guy, I guess his name is Tom Nichols. I don't know who this loser is, but he tweets out,
00:50:17.520
it's unfortunate to give her one more moment of attention, but when all of this is over,
00:50:21.560
no one should forget that she said this. Now, don't forget, this is the group that's making
00:50:26.960
lists, right? To try to keep people from publishing books, from getting speaking engagements, from
00:50:32.140
getting jobs. If they worked in the Trump administration, he's the little list maker.
00:50:36.520
And if you feel differently than Tom, we're going on his list. He's going to try to hurt you.
00:50:42.620
And the guy writes for the Atlantic and other publications. So, you know, it's not a totally
00:50:47.500
empty threat. He indeed may come after me or you. I mean, I don't, I don't give a shit about Tom,
00:50:52.160
but I, so I tweeted back to him and said, making your list and checking it twice. You don't scare
00:50:57.060
me, Tom. And your sanctimony is repulsive. And it went back and forth from there. But my point is,
00:51:04.120
this is what it's come to now. I have a different view than Tom does of the coverage of what happened
00:51:10.440
in the Capitol. I didn't like what I was hearing from the news media that tried, tried to make it about
00:51:14.960
themselves and a chance to redeem their bias against Trump and his supporters for the past four
00:51:21.140
years. And for saying that, I got a threat that old Tom was going to be reminding everyone of my
00:51:28.500
words forevermore. Well, you know what, Tom? Do it. It's in print already. Oh, and by the way,
00:51:34.120
I have several million followers and you don't. So I don't need your help reminding anybody.
00:51:38.500
Everyone knows because I put it in writing long before you threatened me.
00:51:41.400
Um, these kinds of men make me make my skin crawl. He's just a tiny, tiny man, right? Who has to go
00:51:48.360
out there because it's not just me. He's, he threatens a lot of people. Uh, I got a couple
00:51:52.100
of DMS last night from people who you don't know that well, who said they've been threatened by this
00:51:55.720
guy, uh, and then had to, you know, not follow him. Um, so anyway, I hate bullies. He's one of them.
00:52:02.900
And Tom, if you want to tell the world, anything I've said, bring it. And now back to KLG.
00:52:11.400
I've been dying to ask you about Regis, the, the, the nation's most Regis. And you know,
00:52:20.100
he was one of the greatest, right? Somebody we all loved. And of course you were the first person
00:52:26.600
after his wife, Joy, that I thought of when I saw that news. And I think that's true for most of the,
00:52:30.820
most of the country, right? That you two were a pair, you know? How did that affect you?
00:52:35.900
Well, you know, um, um, I did the same thing that I did when I heard that Regis had passed.
00:52:44.820
I did the same thing I did when I heard that Billy had, and the same thing I did when I held Frank
00:52:50.040
in my arms and I realized that he was gone. I rejoiced. I cried tears of joy because I knew where
00:52:58.900
they were and I knew who they were with. And, um, and that's, that's what the Bible calls the peace
00:53:06.460
that passes all understanding. I had shared Jesus with Regis so many times he believed in him. So
00:53:13.400
I know exactly where Regis went right into the arms of Jesus. Billy, of course, we all knew he went
00:53:18.980
right into the arms of Jesus and Frank did. And that was the song that I wrote with my friend,
00:53:23.840
Brett James, you know, and how, how could he, how could he come back once you've seen been held by
00:53:30.540
Jesus? Forget it. Nobody wants to come back after that. So I rejoiced. And then I called joy. And then
00:53:38.000
I went over to joy and just held her and the girl and, and, uh, just loved on him and kept course,
00:53:44.740
kept in touch with them, uh, since then. And, um, is there, you know, an emptiness in me, of course,
00:53:51.300
but this is how sweet God was. He, uh, Regis and Joy came over for lunch two weeks before
00:53:56.520
Regis died. And I hadn't seen him in like, well, seven or eight months because they lived in California
00:54:01.180
and COVID had happened and all of that. So, uh, I saw him get out of the car and he was,
00:54:06.840
um, they were bringing a wedding gift for Cassidy. I remember that. And I'd watched him and Joy walk up
00:54:13.620
my driveway and get in my courtyard and walk into my house hundreds and hundreds of times over the years.
00:54:19.100
And I knew just by the way he was walking and how, um, uh, he seemed so frail, but we came in,
00:54:27.340
talked about, said Regis got the world's greatest head of hair. And he just sort of chuckled. And
00:54:32.940
Joy says, tell her, tell her Regis. And I said, what? He goes, what joy? What joy? He was just here.
00:54:39.420
She said this morning when we get up, he said, we're going to see Cass today, right? And, uh,
00:54:45.940
and Joy said, yes, sweetheart, we're going to go to her house for lunch. He goes, yeah, that's great.
00:54:51.300
I, I don't like my hair, Joy. You got to wash and dry my hair, blow dry. I don't like it. I got to
00:54:56.460
look good. I got to look good for Cass. And I looked at her. You always look good to me, honey. He said,
00:55:05.880
I adore you. So we laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh about three hours that day. See, I have those long
00:55:12.260
lunches with people I love. So keep that in mind, Megan. That's what, that's what was going on with
00:55:17.320
you. The only time in my, in my life, since I was a kid that I ever had corned beef and it's
00:55:21.420
delicious. Mary, please God, let it open up again. You had everything. Yeah. You needed to eat. You
00:55:27.840
needed to, you needed to celebrate life. Uh, I knew it was going to be a hard time for you, but
00:55:32.540
here's the thing. The next day, uh, or as I was leaving Joy's house, which was the next day after
00:55:38.400
Regis had passed. Uh, she said, Kathy, I just have to tell you something. She said,
00:55:43.000
Regis hadn't laughed in months, um, before we saw you. He was so depressed because of COVID. He
00:55:51.160
couldn't go anywhere and be Regis. He couldn't show up anywhere and go, Regis is here. Regis,
00:55:57.040
look everybody. Regis is here. That brought him such joy, making people happy. He just lived for it.
00:56:03.800
He couldn't even go out to lunch with his old friends and talk about the good old days because no
00:56:08.000
restaurants were open in California. He couldn't even walk in the streets because they won't let
00:56:12.500
you walk on the streets and nobody would go, Hey, Regis, because if you have a mask on, Regis
00:56:18.160
couldn't be who he was anymore. And I think he had a broken heart from it. And Joy said this to me,
00:56:25.860
this is the way I end the chapter in the book about Regis. She said, Kathy, I just want you to know
00:56:30.660
that the last time I heard Regis laugh was with you.
00:56:38.000
That's amazing. What a compliment. What a great thing to hold on to.
00:56:42.700
What a blessing. I made him happy again. He made me happy. And, you know, we became even
00:56:48.160
dearer friends in the 20 years after I left the show. We never, ever had had a fight.
00:56:53.760
You didn't. I know you guys stayed, stayed tight, but there were reports that the same was not true
00:56:58.480
for your replacement in Regis, Kelly Ripa and, and he, and that, that they had had some sort of a
00:57:04.580
rift that she basically wasn't grateful to him for the spot. That that's what the report said.
00:57:09.080
Oh yeah. I read it. I hear all that stuff too. You know what? Um, Regis isn't here to tell you
00:57:15.540
his side of it. And I would never share it because, because he's my dear friend and, and Kelly,
00:57:21.280
I think has been kind of open from what I understand about the fact that they weren't
00:57:25.400
close friends, like, like region. I were so, um, you know, I hear all the same stuff. I choose to just
00:57:31.040
believe that, um, I try to believe what I know to be true. And what I know to be true was that
00:57:38.160
Regis wasn't happy there anymore. And, and, um, it was time for him to go. And it wasn't that I
00:57:44.240
wasn't happy any, when I left with Regis, I never was unhappy with Regis or Hoda. They were the reasons
00:57:50.340
I stayed so long, you know? So it was a different, it was a different kind of relationship. Um, I would
00:57:57.240
never comment on it any other way than that. Um, she and, um, Ryan asked me to come on after, um,
00:58:05.160
after Regis, uh, died. And I had asked Joy specifically, I said, Joy, everybody's going
00:58:12.340
to be asking me to come on their shows. What do you want me to do? I'll do whatever you want.
00:58:17.740
She says, please just do the Today Showcast. And I said, okay.
00:58:26.380
I mean, I, you're too classy to say it, but I will say it speaks volumes of how that relationship
00:58:30.500
ended. And it also ended similarly for her and Michael Strahan, who is a great, great guy. Um,
00:58:35.900
anyway, I'm sorry, but I, as you could, as everybody knows, I'm not as nice as you are.
00:58:40.860
So I see the truth and I'm going to tell the audience what it is.
00:58:43.320
Well, sometimes you, you, you say, uh, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth, right.
00:58:50.460
For another time. And that's what I do in this book. There are stories I tell in this book,
00:58:55.360
Megan, that I've never told, but I can tell it now because certain people have you,
00:59:01.000
I learned a lot. I mean, I knew, for example, that you were the godmother to two of the Kardashians
00:59:05.780
to Kendall Jenner and Kylie Jenner. Right. But I didn't know, like you, you were,
00:59:09.660
you were with them like really recently. And I didn't know you were the one who gave them
00:59:15.260
that. Yeah. The day Kobe Bryant died. And I did want to ask you about that because
00:59:20.160
they've become, you know, since you and Kris Jenner became so close and all that years and
00:59:23.980
years and years ago when, when Robert Kardashian, I think, was he still alive when you became friends
00:59:28.700
with her or was she? Okay. Yeah. They were happily married. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So she's,
00:59:33.360
she lost her husband. She remarried Bruce Jenner. You were married to a big sports guy. Um,
00:59:38.340
what do you think about what's happened to that family since then? I mean, you knew them when none
00:59:44.820
of us knew any of these girls and now the whole world knows the Kardashian children.
00:59:51.240
Yeah, but they don't, that's, that's the key. They don't know them. They know what they've seen of
00:59:56.180
them on television, just the way they think they know Megan Kelly. They think they know Kathy Lee.
01:00:01.360
They think they know Regis. They only know what we have shown them. And, um, the first time,
01:00:07.900
I mean, I was responsible for them, uh, for their series being made that you can, you can blame me
01:00:14.160
for it or you can kiss me. But, um, my, my, my agent at William Morris agency had been after me and
01:00:20.180
our family to do, um, you know, a reality show forever. And I said, no, no, our private life is
01:00:27.900
private and we're happy because we keep it that way. And I said, well, but I do have a family that
01:00:33.940
would, it would be perfect for, and, and, and the person who gets, who does it is going to make a
01:00:39.320
gazillion dollars and it's going to be a huge hit. And she goes to, I said, um, the Kardashian
01:00:45.720
Jenner clan there at Kathy Lee and Frank walk out one door in walks the, the, the, the Jackson five
01:00:52.640
in walks, uh, Wayne Gretzky in comes, you know, the Laker team in comes, you know, that guy Simpson,
01:00:59.980
of course. And, um, and I said, uh, you know, she said, well, I'm not going to touch it, but she
01:01:06.400
said, I think I'll take it to Ryan because she had just signed Ryan and that's, that's, that's how
01:01:12.040
it all happened. That's so crazy. I just spoke with Chris two days ago. This is, we still are dear,
01:01:17.720
dear friends, which is we say dear friends because after I watched the pilot episode with
01:01:23.800
my dear friend, Christine has been with me for over 30 years and Cassidy who was 14, I
01:01:28.420
think at the time I looked at Cassidy and I looked at Christine, we went over to Christine
01:01:33.780
to watch it because it, it would have upset Frank so much, I think. And you said, Oh Lord,
01:01:39.880
what have I done? Yes. Yes. So, um, because I had said to Chris, Chris, do it. It's going to
01:01:47.320
be fantastic for the family, but be, be one of the producers, have some power and make
01:01:52.500
sure that they don't manipulate you into all these situations that aren't real. It becomes
01:01:58.460
unreality television. I said, make sure they see you praying like you do go on to church
01:02:03.780
like you do Bible study once a week, like you do. She says, Oh no, no, I'm going to, I'm
01:02:08.840
one of the producers that we will. And so then when I watched the pilot episode, um, I, you
01:02:16.060
know, I looked at Cass and I said, Cass, what do you think? And this is exactly the truth.
01:02:22.180
This says everything. She said, but mom, they're not like that.
01:02:30.740
You know, it's funny. Cause, uh, I, I think about them sometimes cause a lot of feminists
01:02:35.800
don't like them. I don't, I'm not a feminist, but, um, I understand in this particular case,
01:02:41.060
the criticism, right? So selfie focused and like these enlarged bodies that they don't
01:02:46.180
totally own as, you know, manipulated. And it's just the selfie culture that people blame
01:02:51.160
them for the start of the selfie culture and the constant photographs and all. And I get
01:02:54.140
all that. Look, and I can argue the other side just as easily. They're brilliant business
01:02:57.780
women. They're billionaires. They're essentially in the beauty business. You may not like the way
01:03:02.400
they do it, but they're smart and they're savvy and they, they made something of themselves.
01:03:06.460
Um, but it's not that I want them to be an influence on my daughter. I certainly don't
01:03:13.240
want that. And it's just a funny story about that. They seem, no, I mean, they seem kind
01:03:18.620
hearted actually. I interviewed them and each of them seemed really kind hearted and sweet
01:03:21.960
with one another. It's just the, the imagery and all that. So my daughter Yardley had a friend
01:03:26.200
over, um, not, not long ago. And, and I was doing my makeup and they were in the bathroom
01:03:30.660
with me and the girl goes, is that Kim Kardashian's makeup? And I was like, no, no. And, and
01:03:35.720
then my daughter said, who's Kim Kardashian? And I said, Oh, nevermind. It's not important.
01:03:40.340
And she said, no, who's Kim Kardashian. I'm like, nevermind. It's not important. So now
01:03:44.100
I have both of these nine-year-old girls wanting me to tell them who, and I, I put down the,
01:03:48.780
the mascara and I looked at them and I said, look, I do not wish to be the person who brings
01:04:00.240
I can see you doing that. Yeah. Well, you know, they are, they are very sweet girls. They're,
01:04:08.860
they're so sweet. They've made some really bad choices and guess what? So have I, you know?
01:04:15.460
Um, yeah, no. And they're very, very generous and they, they do a lot of good too. But, um,
01:04:21.520
you know, my, my point was, I, I said to Chris, Chris, understand, I love you and I'm going to
01:04:28.160
love, I'm going to die loving you as my friend. Cause we were that close. I said, but I think
01:04:32.600
to maintain our marriage, our, our friendship, I think that we, I need to not watch the show,
01:04:38.520
uh, as you know, very often or very much. And I asked only just one thing and she goes, okay,
01:04:44.700
what? I said, please keep my goddaughters off the damn stripper pole. And apparently she didn't,
01:04:55.160
she didn't do that. They were on the stripper pole. You know what? I've had so much hate mail
01:05:01.200
about my friendships with them. And I go, you know, I'm not going to tell you who your friends
01:05:05.640
are. You have no right to tell me who my friends should be.
01:05:08.720
They don't seem like bad people. This that's also a lot of envy.
01:05:12.320
My mother was about the most about Christian woman in the world, moral beyond, beyond. She loved
01:05:19.900
the show. Now she knew Chris. I said, mom, you love it. She goes, you know why? Cause at the end
01:05:27.640
of every episode, there's still a family and they love each other. And I went, wow.
01:05:33.160
I got a good one. I got a good one for you. So Kim Kardashian. So I asked her when I interviewed them
01:05:38.100
about these photos that had just been released of her in a bikini and they'd been taken unauthorized
01:05:44.180
by some paparazzi and you could see cellulite on her bottom. And of course the tabloids went
01:05:50.620
nuts for it. Like Kim Kardashian has cellulite, right? Cause the image is always so perfect and
01:05:55.520
people just enjoy when they discover flaws. And, um, so I said, what did you think of that? Far from
01:06:00.820
being embarrassed. She was like, can I tell you something? She goes, there were at around that same
01:06:06.020
time. There were pictures of me in a bikini and my, my rear end looked amazing. And she goes,
01:06:11.260
Megan, they were taken on the same day, the same day. She goes, except I took one and the paparazzi
01:06:17.440
took another. And I said, so was that, was it all about the filter? And you know what she said? She
01:06:21.800
did womankind a favor. And she taught me something that I will never forget. She said, if you want to
01:06:28.620
have a good beach photo taken of yourself, you don't go at noon. That is when the paparazzi got me.
01:06:34.680
She said, you go to the beach right around the sunset hour, six, six 30, depends on, you know,
01:06:40.780
what time of year it is. And she said, and you put on your big round cellulite ridden bottom,
01:06:49.080
something called Sally Hansen legs, which you can get at CVS for just a few dollars. And dude,
01:06:55.520
it works. I used that when I did my movie, when I had all those leg shots for my
01:07:01.560
Sally Hansen legs. No way. God bless Kim Kardashian. She's willing to spread the wealth KLG. That's
01:07:07.560
what, that's one of the things I do like about the woman. That product has been around even longer
01:07:13.220
than, than the Cardassian. That's been around forever. It's like Sally Hansen nails.
01:07:18.320
I thought it was going to be like, then you must buy Kylie Jenner cosmetics. No, no, no. It was
01:07:23.260
good old Sally Hansen. Like she's been around since before. Well, Christy Lane, who used to do
01:07:27.880
the commercials on Fox news when I first started by the, by the rolling ocean. Remember Christy
01:07:33.020
Lane? Yeah, of course. By the way, I do want to recommend people. The movie then came you,
01:07:37.640
which you worked really hard on. And I think it's a wonderful story about loss and starting over and
01:07:43.140
and letting the next phase be the greatest, whatever age you're at. So I want to ask you
01:07:48.520
that, as you say, you know, in the, in the film, I have to make new memories of the old ones are
01:07:52.460
going to kill me. Are you at that place now where they can actually coexist peacefully and joyfully,
01:07:59.720
and you can hold on to all the, all the bad, all the good, all the depression, all the anger,
01:08:05.700
all the forgiveness, and still go forward into this next phase, willing to be vulnerable,
01:08:11.320
willing to take risks, willing to put yourself out there in whatever, in relationship, in,
01:08:16.780
in life. Are you asking me if I, am I dating somebody? I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm on to
01:08:25.660
you. For the record, I didn't ask that. I just want that noted. Okay. I, the day that I stopped
01:08:33.120
believing in love and the possibility of love is the day that my soul has died. For sure. I dated,
01:08:41.320
about, um, four different guys, uh, last year. It had been, uh, it had been three years, I think,
01:08:48.960
since Frank had passed or four years. I don't know. And I started, I dated a few of them and
01:08:53.160
they're all really good guys, nice guys, um, wonderful guys, but not my guy, you know,
01:09:01.020
they weren't right for me. And I always ended it very soon because it's not fair to use people just
01:09:07.760
because you like to go dancing just because he likes music the way you do, or just because
01:09:11.500
he's a good kisser, you know, all the things that, um, I mean, if I can't have, um, a love
01:09:18.200
that's, that's beyond the love that I had with the love of my life, which was Frank, um, then,
01:09:27.540
then, um, I'll, I'll take friendships, great friendships with great guys, uh, rather than
01:09:32.180
another bad marriage for sure. Like my first one was, but I, uh, I, I don't even know if I should
01:09:39.400
say this, but I am, let's just say right now, um, I'm very, very happy right now. And that's all
01:09:47.460
until we end the podcast and then I'll tell you the truth. Are you regularly feeling flushed and
01:09:53.820
wanting a cigarette? No, I never wanted to smoke, but I do blush on occasion. I am thrilled to hear
01:10:05.120
it. Go get them. Kathy Lee. Lots of love. I miss you. And I love you. I love you too, Megan. God
01:10:11.420
bless. Give my love to that beautiful family of yours. Hey, if you liked the program, please go
01:10:18.220
ahead now and subscribe to it. Would love to have you as a subscriber and download the episodes as they
01:10:23.300
come up. You can give it a five-star rating. If you're feeling super kind in the new year,
01:10:27.200
apparently Apple's not taking reviews anymore, or at least hasn't been for a month. So you can,
01:10:31.720
if you have thoughts on the show or who we should book, send me an email at questions
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at devilmaycaremedia.com. This hour has been brought to you in part by Grove Collaborative.
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This is a new sponsor and I have to say their stuff has been really nice. Take the guesswork
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out of going green. Go to grove.co slash mk grove.co slash mk to shop for all of your sustainable
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home essentials. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.
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The Megan Kelly show is a Devil May Care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.