The Megyn Kelly Show - Kathie Lee Gifford on God's Importance, Regis Philbin, The Kardashians, and Her Career ｜ Ep. 49

00:00:00.580 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:12.100 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.360 Today on the program, we've got Kathie Lee Gifford, who I adore, and I know you will too.

00:00:21.980 This is a woman who, back when I was at Fox News and I got the afternoon show,

00:00:26.160 it was my first gig as a solo anchor, out of the blue without me knowing her,

00:00:30.000 sent me a bouquet of flowers. Then I got promoted to primetime, and I got a huge bouquet of flowers

00:00:35.360 and a nice note from her. I don't, like, I don't even know her. She was just being kind out of the

00:00:38.780 blue to a stranger. Then when I finally went over to NBC, she was the first one to come and congratulate

00:00:43.560 me and offer to take me out to lunch, which we then did religiously for months. And, you know,

00:00:48.320 of course there are these great booze fests at her favorite restaurant. We had so much fun. She was

00:00:53.180 always looking out for me, always wishing me well, like genuinely wishing me well. And honestly,

00:00:57.860 telling me behind the scenes what to watch out for, who to watch out for, and what issues I might be

00:01:03.580 facing in my new place of employment. I mean, that is a friend. That is a good person. And that's how

00:01:09.620 she's lived her life. She's done so much good for this world. She is a doer of good. She is somebody

00:01:14.800 who focuses her life on putting out goodness into the world. And it has shown. And I think in this

00:01:20.760 difficult time that our country's going through right now, you're going to find her message really

00:01:25.300 refreshing. And I'll just tell you something, honestly. So we taped these intros after we do

00:01:29.920 the interview. And I had said to my team, I'm not sure, you know, given how tumultuous things are in

00:01:36.940 the country right now, is this, do we need to hold this interview? You know, it could be a little

00:01:41.560 lighter. This is before we taped it. This is a little lighter. Maybe we should move this like a

00:01:46.260 little later on like to the following week or something. And we kind of all said, well, let's see how it

00:01:50.660 goes and see how it feels. And when it was done, we had a conversation about how, in fact,

00:01:56.760 it's the perfect conversation to be having right now. Somebody on my team said, I feel lighter.

00:02:02.820 And Canadian Debbie, you know, heartless, soulless Canadian Debbie actually cried, 1.00

00:02:08.420 saying how much better she felt. You know, I kid because I love Debbie. But we're all kind of

00:02:15.840 feeling it. She has a very inspirational message and it kind of left me feeling like, okay, we're

00:02:20.740 going to be okay and we can do better and we must. Anyway, she's coming up in one minute and I promise

00:02:28.940 you, you're going to enjoy the conversation. But before we get to her, it's the new year, as you

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00:04:28.980 Kathy Lee Gifford. Kathy Lee Gifford, so excited to have you here. Thank you for doing this.

00:04:36.720 Hello, old pal. And I don't mean old, but long time. How are you?

00:04:40.180 Getting older by the second sister, but it's fine. But it beats the alternative, as they say.

00:04:45.880 Yeah, okay.

00:04:47.200 It's a delight to hear your voice and your laugh. And I think you're a great person to be talking to

00:04:53.520 right now because I've talked to you during tough times and good times in your life and mine. And

00:05:00.000 you always have a way of making me feel better. I think it's your connection to faith and God. So

00:05:05.340 let me start with the broad, broad brush question of how do we, how do we get back to that feeling as

00:05:14.140 a country of that feeling of community, of being united, although, you know, not necessarily an

00:05:21.220 ideology, but just not hateful toward one another, toward wellness instead of constant hurt,

00:05:28.060 anger, and pain, where it feels like we've spent a lot of time lately.

00:05:32.120 You know what I learned a long, long time ago, Megan, was when I was right with God vertically,

00:05:39.700 things in my life and relationships in my life and experiences in my life that went out horizontally

00:05:45.480 from me were peaceful, were not full of chaos, had purpose, had design to them, had a craftsmanship to

00:05:55.320 them, had a reasonableness to them. I think because we're doing everything horizontally in our own power,

00:06:03.860 we're screwing absolutely everything up. And that's everybody on every side of every aisle.

00:06:08.800 You know, when I am right with God, I'm right with the world. I treat people the way God would

00:06:15.380 treat them. I think right thoughts. I, I, I'm generous. I'm loving and kind when I'm right with

00:06:23.780 God. When I'm not, I don't act that way. And the world is not a better place. It all comes down to

00:06:30.340 what is our relationship with God. And you know me well enough to know that I do not mean,

00:06:34.800 I mean the antithesis of religion. I do not mean religion. I mean a personal walk and relationship

00:06:42.600 with the loving eternal God. And that is what my life is all about. Scripture says in him,

00:06:48.700 we live and move and have our very being. And if I am concentrating on him and his love for me,

00:06:56.940 and, and, and I find profound peace in knowing I am loved perfectly by him, it enables me to love

00:07:04.800 other people in his name. It's as simple as that. You know, it feels like there are massive

00:07:13.180 consequences to the nation becoming more and more godless. They, they, they, they fill the space with

00:07:20.320 other things that are, that by definition are less meaningful, but also tend to involve a lot of

00:07:25.940 negative energy. And then B, as you point out, it, it doesn't inspire you in that vertical way,

00:07:31.580 such that those positive rays spew out horizontally and make all of your actions

00:07:35.920 better. I just, I do think there have been real consequences to the removal of pay of faith from

00:07:42.720 the public square. And really let's face it from our personal squares as well over the past 10, 20 years.

00:07:49.640 No question. No question. When we think that we know better than God,

00:07:55.380 we've made ourselves to be God and we are equipped for that job. I don't know about you, but I'm not

00:08:03.640 equipped to be God. And, and I rely on him for everything. And it, and it's not like holding on to

00:08:10.420 your, your Bibles and your, your guns kind of relying. I don't mean any of that political rhetoric

00:08:16.420 that we throw around as well. I mean, when I live my life according to his, not commandments,

00:08:24.900 but his suggestions, you know, God doesn't give us his, these, the so-called the 10 commandments

00:08:31.200 because he wants to control us. He could have made us robots if he wanted to control us. He gave us

00:08:37.360 like a guidebook of, if you do this, this blessing will follow. If you do this, you will have a good

00:08:46.220 life in the land, the land I promised you. If you love, honor your mother and father. I mean,

00:08:52.840 it's just, it's all, it's all perfect instruction to live a life full of peace. Jesus said in this

00:09:00.180 world, you will have trouble, but then he said, but take courage for I have overcome the world.

00:09:06.540 And so when we see the chaos all around you, I keep saying to myself, but this was not a surprise to

00:09:13.760 God. Sovereign God is either sovereign God or he's not God at all. God is on his throne,

00:09:20.440 no matter what the television shows you. I know that God is on his throne and nothing happens

00:09:26.840 without him knowing it. And if we seek him, he will heal our heart. He'll heal our land. He will heal

00:09:33.200 our relationships. But if we keep going about our life without giving him his glory and his due,

00:09:39.820 we will reap the consequences, not of his wrath, just of being separated from him.

00:09:47.280 Hell is separation from God. That's what hell is.

00:09:51.500 I think about it when I see images on our television over the past year of infighting amongst Americans

00:09:58.240 and literally fires burning. I mean, fires, you mentioned hell, fires burning on the, on the,

00:10:03.520 on the streets of America, on our, at our U S Capitol and elsewhere. And it's, it's just daunting.

00:10:09.540 You know, each one of us feels like, what can I do? And frankly, I've been guilty of this too,

00:10:15.320 of instead of trying to be a healing force, you get pissed off and you start firing your own

00:10:21.180 rhetorical bullets, you know, and some, and, and in some ways that can be soothing, right? Cause

00:10:25.380 somebody, people hear their worldview expressed and they sort of feel represented,

00:10:28.620 but you know, in other ways that like the net net doesn't leave you feeling good.

00:10:34.700 No, it doesn't. And it may give you this, you know, instant gratification, but words have

00:10:39.360 consequences. They go forward, but nothing goes forward more than the word of God. And it never

00:10:46.700 returns void. So if I have a choice to choose life or death, I'm going to choose words of life and pass

00:10:54.560 those on because it's the greatest guarantee that God's word will never return void. If you speak

00:11:02.380 truth in a spirit of love, nothing wrong with telling people the truth, but make sure that you

00:11:08.260 speak it in a way that is loving and, and the, and the, um, the, your, your, your motivation behind

00:11:14.940 it is to be a peacemaker, not, I mean, I'm going to be in the construction business,

00:11:19.700 not the destruction business. And that's what we way too often see is people that want to tear down

00:11:27.120 something that they don't like and build it with something that they would like with no thought to

00:11:32.080 who it would hurt in the process. You know, I mean, we've come so far from, you know, ask not what

00:11:39.180 your country can do for us, but you can do for your country. Does anybody even remember who said that

00:11:44.400 anymore? I think they'd be surprised to Google it. You know, we've come a gazillion miles from that.

00:11:50.760 And, um, Jesus said when, when the Pharisees and the Sadducees were trying to trick him about

00:11:55.420 what's the greatest commandment, what's, what, how do I keep the law, all of that stuff. And Jesus said,

00:12:01.240 love, love God with all your heart and your soul and your might and in basically your entire being.

00:12:08.280 And the second commandment, best commandment is like it and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

00:12:14.860 Well, he did not mean that person who lives next door to you. Of course, he includes that,

00:12:19.660 but our neighbor is everybody that we share our planet with. Our neighbor is every other child

00:12:25.840 of God that lives out there. In other words, all of creation. But we like to pick and choose the

00:12:30.860 neighborhoods we live in, don't we? I'll tell you what though, you say, speak truth in the spirit of

00:12:35.920 love. And I think I can no longer do the news. I have to leave Twitter. I can't talk about the

00:12:41.920 news anymore. You can't, there's, there's no spirit of love in the news whatsoever, which has

00:12:45.860 been a frustration of mine in it. And why I know you, you never consider yourself as having been in

00:12:50.520 the news business. You're an entertainer, your time with reach and so on. And then I see why you're

00:12:55.640 too kind of person. You're, you're too well positive. And well, I don't know. I think there's

00:13:02.560 something about the news business that attracts us dark forces. You're too damn well, Kathy Lee.

00:13:08.320 No, you know what I've learned? I learned a long, long time ago. And I learned it from Billy, 0.58

00:13:11.940 the friend that I, Billy Graham, that you and I've spoken with on the air. And gee, that went more than

00:13:16.560 viral. That went all over the world. Billy, Billy was very wise when he told me basically, Kathy,

00:13:23.820 just keep telling people that God loves them. Let that be your message all the time. The few times that

00:13:29.840 I did get caught up in something political, I regret it. I should have stayed on the message

00:13:35.120 of Jesus's love, God's love for his world, for his creation, because that doesn't divide us,

00:13:42.720 that unites us. Anything else has, has, has got the power to divide, but God's love heals. God's love

00:13:51.280 restores. God's love redeems. All the things we need in our world today come from one source alone.

00:13:59.860 It's not going to be passed. You can't pass love in legislation. It's not going to happen on Capitol Hill.

00:14:05.240 As you mentioned, you're not, you're not into organized religion at all, but I'll tell you a

00:14:09.300 story. My, my friend, Melissa Francis, who works at Fox news did. Oh, I love Melissa. She's a

00:14:14.740 sweetheart. She's awesome. She used to star on Little House on the Prairie, which is a whole other

00:14:18.080 story and an awesome one, but she, um, she, she told the story. She actually told it publicly,

00:14:23.620 but she told me privately first that she was at her church in New York city, um, two years ago,

00:14:29.480 I want to say. And there she was in the news business Monday through Friday, but on Sunday

00:14:34.760 in, in church. And the priest started railing on Fox news. What is going on? I don't want this in

00:14:46.400 here. I'm trying to avoid politics in this moment and go to my better angels, you know,

00:14:51.320 trying to go back to the well and get, and get a fresh cup of mercy that you need. Yeah. That's

00:14:56.940 neither the time nor the place for, um, for that kind of a message. I really do believe that I,

00:15:03.080 I'm not against people going to church by any means. I just church stopped meaning anything to

00:15:10.360 me years ago when I, when I didn't hear anybody teaching rabbinically, which means the true source

00:15:16.940 of the scriptures, the Greek in the new Testament, the Hebrews in the old, that's the only way I want

00:15:23.140 scripture taught to me. So I go to, um, the rabbis and I go to messianic rabbis to teach me. I go to

00:15:30.040 Israel and I study where these things actually happened. And I, I, I, and I study in a, in a

00:15:35.780 geopolitical and a contextual way, what was going on then? What, what were the Sadducees and the

00:15:42.300 Pharisees? What did Jesus mean by this? Why would Jesus curse a fig tree? And when you start to learn

00:15:48.460 rabbinically, what all of that actually means, scriptures come to life and you get the power you

00:15:55.500 need in, in, in your daily life, I know exactly what Melissa means. I, I went to ABC and NBC every

00:16:02.820 day for years and years and years and, and gave of myself as much as I could tried to be the best

00:16:08.160 performer. I could be the best friend to anybody that was, that I worked with. That was my mission

00:16:13.560 field. I did. I wasn't a missionary to, to Africa. I was a missionary at NBC and at ABC and countless

00:16:21.020 lives were changed as a result of it. And people used to say to me, how can you call yourself a

00:16:25.460 Christian and be, you know, I go, because that's where God's called me to go love people. Where

00:16:30.860 would you have me go? I'm going to go where God tells me to go. And I, you know, I, I, I want to

00:16:36.760 get a t-shirt made. I'll give one to you. Make it what I get up. I'm so sorry, but I think you're

00:16:42.140 confusing me with someone who thinks that your opinion matters to me. It doesn't matter.

00:16:49.820 I already have that t-shirt. It just has STFU on it and it, it communicates in a shorter,

00:16:56.180 more short form. It works for me. All right. So now let, let me ask you this. Just in the past

00:17:02.400 couple of months, you've released a book called it's never too late. And you have released your

00:17:07.860 movie that you were working on when we were working together, um, shortly after you left NBC.

00:17:12.140 And, and, and during called then came used during Craig Ferguson, who's quite dreamy.

00:17:16.880 Yeah. Um, so like, you're very busy. That's very clear. You've been doing a lot and I know

00:17:22.040 you've got a gazillion other books and projects coming out, but I loved the beginning of the book

00:17:26.400 because you, you talk about labels and how you're at a point where they could define you. If you let

00:17:31.200 them saying right now, at this point in my life, I'm 67. You say, I'm a widow. I'm an empty nester.

00:17:38.060 God forbid saying it out loud. I'm a senior citizen and I'm alone.

00:17:42.140 For the first time in my life. Right. Cause your kids are, are off. So when I read you sort of frame

00:17:47.780 it up that way, because I just know you as this like kick-ass professional woman, who's constantly 0.98

00:17:51.880 go, go, go, go, go, going. Um, I thought, how's that going? Right. When you think about it that way

00:17:58.820 alone for the first time in your life, how's that going?

00:18:02.040 You know, um, I've never been so happy as I am right now. Honestly, if you would have told me

00:18:08.180 that the age of 67 living in a brand new place after all these years, my husband gone for five

00:18:14.360 years, my kids, you know, married now bless them and, and, and living on, you know, uh, actually

00:18:19.760 my daughter and her husband have moved here to Tennessee and her husband. So I'm, I'm, I get to

00:18:25.100 see them a little bit more cause you know, they're newlyweds and always need something. 1.00

00:18:28.900 But, um, and Cody is, and I, I'm, I'm praying one day he and his beautiful wife, Erica will,

00:18:34.880 you know, whatever. I just want them to live their lives. I, I have a life every morning that is so

00:18:41.100 filled with joy, with projects, with friends who there's always music in my home. There's always

00:18:49.060 meetings yesterday on, on like three different films that I'm producing right now. Um, some of

00:18:54.660 them with my son, seeing, uh, new people moving into Tennessee, many of them from California because

00:19:01.320 the, you know, the lifestyle in California is, is, is no longer paradise out there. So people that,

00:19:07.880 I mean, there is, nobody has like jam fest every single night, anywhere in the country that I know

00:19:14.260 of, except for right here in Tennessee. Every night, somebody's at my house playing piano or

00:19:18.920 guitar or, or, or writing or work. So it's constant creativity. I was surrounded in one of the most

00:19:26.840 beautiful places in the world in Greenwich, Connecticut, but, but my neighbors were tended

00:19:30.880 to be, um, you know, um, um, people in the, uh, tech world, people in the financial world, you know,

00:19:37.140 and those people don't usually want to come over and play guitar and write songs with me.

00:19:42.000 I could write all day long and all night with the amount and they're brilliant. So, you know,

00:19:50.540 when we're created in the image of God, and I believe we are, cause scripture says so,

00:19:55.160 then we are to be, we're at our happiness when we are also creating. I had a little children's book

00:20:00.260 out this year as well called Hello Little Dreamer about how God places his dreams in our little

00:20:07.380 beings, even as we were being formed in our mother's womb. And, and I know that's true because

00:20:13.240 I came out of my mother's womb with a pratfall and a, and a rim shot and a, let's put on a show

00:20:19.420 attitude. He, God made me that way for a reason. And I am happiest when I'm doing those things.

00:20:25.980 Then I'm happiest when I'm doing those things for his glory, like my, the, the, um, oratorios and

00:20:32.000 things that I'm writing now. And I have a, uh, one and a half hour one that will be, um, hopefully

00:20:37.100 released at, um, during Holy week coming up at Easter time. You've been prolific in your songwriting,

00:20:43.980 starring on Broadway, now making films. And one of the things that stood out to me, and I actually

00:20:49.120 didn't know this, um, from your book was one of the, um, one of the Broadway shows that you did,

00:20:55.720 uh, was called under the bridge. And you write about how you saw an interesting pair sitting in

00:21:02.300 the audience, very chummy and getting along. Can you tell us about that? Yes. Yes. It was opening

00:21:08.280 night, uh, off Broadway at a little, um, theater called zipper, which is no longer there sadly, but

00:21:14.900 it was just fun and just really, really low, low, low down and fun. And I, and I'm in the audience

00:21:22.160 with my family for the, and I look over and there's Donald Trump sitting next to Rosie O'Donnell

00:21:27.780 and Melania was on the other side of Donald and Donald and Rosie are laughing and talking

00:21:33.180 and sharing M&M and, and just as happy as clams. And I, and I, and I do write about it. I said,

00:21:39.220 you know, sometimes I miss the good old days, both of them friends of mine at the time that both of

00:21:44.160 them, you don't have to believe the way I believe to be my friend, Megan. I've taken so many trips to

00:21:50.160 Israel with people that don't, don't, don't believe what I believe either politically or 0.99

00:21:55.060 spiritually, but they're beautiful people and I love them. And I've always felt that our common

00:22:02.220 ground in life, um, is, is sacred ground. It just is. If we can find some common ground that we share

00:22:10.680 as human beings, that's the beginning of, of something sacred. And that's what the word holy

00:22:16.500 means. Holy means set apart for sacred use. I love that. And something holy comes out of just loving

00:22:24.580 people and not stop insisting that they've got to mirror your every thought, but where did it turn

00:22:30.840 out to be tolerant, to be canceling people? That's the antithesis of tolerance, right? You've lived a life

00:22:38.180 of forgiveness. I mean, this must be completely antithetical to you, this unforgiving nature.

00:22:44.420 Yeah. It's the exact, it's the exact opposite of the way Jesus lived his life. And he's the only

00:22:50.360 person that I follow completely that, that never lied to me, that never let me down, that has always

00:22:57.240 lived the life that I want to emulate myself. I can't, of course, I'm not God, but, um, he lives inside

00:23:04.640 me. And so we choose, we make heroes out of human beings and that's our biggest mistake. You know, when

00:23:11.160 people make me a hero, I'm uncomfortable with it. I always say, no, no, no, no, no. I'm the way I am

00:23:16.440 because look over there, look over there that, see that guy, look to him, look to him. More with

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00:24:51.720 Not only are we writing people off forever who make mistakes, but we're, we're demanding a perfect

00:24:57.660 life. You know, there's, there's no more grace. There's no more, you know, humanity with a,

00:25:03.160 with a shoulder shrug. This is, it's been thus from the beginning of time. It isn't a new phenomenon

00:25:08.700 to see people try, fail, be imperfect, make mistakes, do stupid things, take risks that don't 0.96

00:25:14.320 work out, whatever it is. Only now have we morphed into this very strange place of what is required 0.96

00:25:20.840 is perfection of moral character and moral characters defined by somebody else.

00:25:27.460 They don't keep the same standard for themselves. They want perfection from me and from you,

00:25:33.580 but they don't live perfect life, nor do they think that they should. That's the ultimate and,

00:25:39.020 and almost, it's not hysterical, but the, the hysterical hypocrisy of it all, that they can't

00:25:45.320 see that. And it comes from every side, every side. And it would break my heart if my heart wasn't so

00:25:54.680 full of love for people. It would, because hurt people hurt people. And when I'm, when I'm tempted

00:26:00.800 to, to hate in response to people who hurt, I'm reminded by the one who was hurt for me

00:26:08.040 on a cross in, in Jerusalem, 2000 and some years ago, you know, that God sent his son to die for me.

00:26:18.500 His perfect son died for me and for you, Megan, you and I've talked a lot about this.

00:26:22.900 And for everyone he had ever created so that we could learn where to take our hurt.

00:26:29.600 We take him to the one who, although he is perfection, he were to appear to us today,

00:26:34.480 you would still see the scars. The scars will never disappear. Ours do, but not his.

00:26:41.220 When we were together at NBC, um, the audience should know Kathy Lee was so good to me. She,

00:26:46.340 she was the best person there to me and, um, asked if, if we could do a lunch once a week.

00:26:52.960 And I, of course was thrilled for the invitation. And we did that for weeks on end and, um, had way

00:26:59.040 too much wine and delicious food. And, uh, it was really special moments. And I, and I, I do think

00:27:05.260 back in that now, because you won't be surprised to hear. I, I do have many negative feelings about

00:27:10.880 my time at NBC, but I also have a lot of wonderful, wonderful memories. You're one of them and just

00:27:18.120 your friendship and your, and, and I do think about it, Kathy Lee, because we talked about faith

00:27:22.700 a lot and forgiveness. And I know you've lived it. You know, you write about that and the whole Frank

00:27:28.200 being set up and he had an affair and while one night stand with a woman, but it was all set up by

00:27:32.700 a tablet. Now he did it, but you don't deny that. But anyway, the point is if you wanted to be bitter,

00:27:37.480 you could be bitter. And we talked about not being bitter. And I, I tell you, ironically,

00:27:42.840 you, my friend from NBC have been somebody whose words have helped me not become bitter

00:27:47.620 in the wake of that exit. Um, yeah, you know, it's, I don't have the greatest feelings over some of our

00:27:53.480 old colleagues, but if you hold onto that, what's the saying that, that, that, that, um, acid

00:28:03.260 corrodes the vessel in which it's held more than the subject on which it's poured, right? Something

00:28:08.460 like that. Mark Twain. I've never heard it put that way, but it's, I've always said that forgiveness

00:28:12.580 hurts the person who can't forgive far more than the person who needs the forgiveness. I think I

00:28:19.120 used the concept with you when I was on about Billy, which is about that, that sin is, is the, um,

00:28:25.800 uh, what is it of the, it's the cancer. It's the carcinogenic of the soul, you know, the malignancy

00:28:32.980 of the soul. That's the word I use. And we all have malignancies in our souls that need to be

00:28:40.080 surgically removed. If they just do, or they will kill us. And the worst is unforgiveness. The worst. 0.68

00:28:47.980 Okay. But let's talk Turkey. How, how, how have you managed it? Right. I know in the book and in

00:28:54.620 our lives, you've told me about the Howard Stern thing. That's one thing, the Frank thing that I,

00:29:00.560 I love the way you write about it. I mean, that's a weird thing to say, you know, talking about an

00:29:03.740 infidelity, but look, a lot of marriages have suffered it. And, and you, you say you realized

00:29:08.120 that the person, um, the person you love most can hurt you the most, right? Like that's,

00:29:14.120 that's the vulnerability and the risk of loving. Yeah. They have the most power to hurt you.

00:29:19.340 Yeah. You know, you write in the book about how one year you get accused of running this

00:29:24.020 sweatshop by some activist who was looking to shut down your, your charity. You were giving all of

00:29:30.620 your money to babies with AIDS, trying to find them housing. The next year, the thing happens with

00:29:35.460 Frank or some tabloid, some sick tabloid pays a woman $75,000 to seduce your husband. Women of the 1.00

00:29:41.260 world. Can you imagine? So what, what does that version of you look like? And how,

00:29:46.480 how do you pull yourself up out of that kind of despair?

00:29:49.820 Well, it's always, um, moment by moment. You do, you look to the source of all healing.

00:29:55.080 And, um, uh, if I stopped believing in God and stopped believing that he had a purpose for

00:30:00.280 everything in my life, even, even sweatshop accusations, even infidelity, that God could

00:30:06.600 bring beauty out of the ashes of my life and that he is promises are true. And he would

00:30:12.880 use even this for his glory if I would allow him to. So I will never forget when I was going

00:30:20.480 through the sweatshop thing. Um, I met with, um, the activist and the young woman who said

00:30:26.840 that, uh, she had worked in one of my so-called factories, which I never had a factory, but

00:30:31.420 okay. But she said she did and, um, made the clothes that, that we were selling at Walmart

00:30:37.900 in, in America and around the world. And, uh, and we met over at, um, I'm going to try to remember

00:30:43.740 a father, uh, Cardinal O'Connor's home, uh, right across the street from, uh, from the church.

00:30:49.560 Cause we thought that that would be a very, you know, good place to have this face to face

00:30:54.720 meeting. And I prayed of course, before I went in there and I said, Lord, Lord, I don't

00:31:00.980 know why all of this is happening. It's so painful and so hurtful, but you know, you, you

00:31:06.120 have a reason for all things. Please show me and let me show grace and let me be you

00:31:13.140 shine me through me. I can't do it by myself. It was almost, I looked down and this young

00:31:19.260 woman, now, first of all, the activist could not look me in the eye and young woman had, uh,

00:31:25.120 nails on her, like, uh, like, um, beautiful red blood, red, long red fingernails. And I'm

00:31:32.640 thinking she doesn't look like she worked in a sweatshop, but maybe she just had them 0.73

00:31:37.680 put on. I don't know. But anyway, it's funny the things you remember. And as that meeting

00:31:41.940 was coming to an end, I get a message, handwritten note, the Cardinal would love to meet with you

00:31:47.380 privately afterwards. Would you meet him in this little room? And I said, of course,

00:31:51.120 yes. I had an emotion. Yes. So afterwards, you know, and I, my heart was just racing and

00:31:56.000 pounding. And, um, uh, I go into this little room and I'd have been, I mean, ripped to shreds

00:32:03.060 for about a month and a half in the tabloids. People were calling for me to be fired, get

00:32:08.860 the fire heard that they, everybody just, you know, wanted to assume. Yes, yes, yes. What's

00:32:12.820 up? This guy stood up in Congress and accused her. It must be true. And, and it was also that 0.86

00:32:17.720 they could get Walmart unionized. It had nothing to do with me. They were just using

00:32:22.080 me to, to, to, cause that was the means to the end that they wanted. So anyway, I knew

00:32:27.540 that it was quite, quite clear to me. But anyway, I went into the room and for the first

00:32:32.320 time in about six weeks, love greeted me. I am not a Catholic, but, but the Cardinal put

00:32:38.640 up out his arms to me to come in and embrace me. And he said, Oh, Kathy, I am so sorry

00:32:46.100 that they hurt you so. I mean, I'd known the man for a while. He knew my heart. He

00:32:51.520 says, I am so sorry. And then he looked at me and he said, but let me tell you

00:32:55.800 something. Our Lord did not change this world so much through his mirror as he did

00:33:03.760 through his suffering. And if you will receive this temporary suffering that you

00:33:10.080 are going through as a way to bring love and healing to the world, God will use

00:33:15.840 your suffering for good. And so what happened is I got my eyes off my own

00:33:21.580 pain and on the pain of people that really do suffer in, in sweatshops around

00:33:26.480 the world. Not that, that, not that I run, but that other people do. A sweatshop

00:33:31.140 cannot exist without greed and need. One person's greed and another person's

00:33:37.100 desperate need. There you have the makings of a sweatshop. I've never said it that

00:33:41.060 way before, but I wish I had, I wish I'd put that in the book because that's

00:33:43.920 exactly what it is. And I set out along with Frank to alleviate that. We got

00:33:48.820 legislation passed. I met with President Clinton down in Washington at the White

00:33:54.160 House once a month for the next year with the Labor Secretary Reich and

00:33:58.660 everybody else. And I'm not a political animal. That's the last place I wanted to

00:34:02.860 be. On the past his third birthday, I was down there. And I had to rush home to have

00:34:06.940 our birthday party in our backyard, you know. And at times like that, it's happened so

00:34:12.120 many times in my life where I go, what am I doing here? I'm an entertainer. What am I

00:34:17.940 doing in the Rose Garden making a speech, you know? Why do I testify in front of, you

00:34:23.260 know, Congress? But the same thing that happened the next year with, with Frank

00:34:28.020 when he was just so cavalier about what he'd done once he knew I'd forgiven him.

00:34:32.820 He just thought, well, all right, let's get back to life. And it was, he didn't realize how

00:34:37.700 damaged and hurt my heart was. And so I was going to counseling for that. And my, this

00:34:43.620 very fine man who had given us actually our premarital counseling many years earlier

00:34:48.900 said, Kathy, if you can't forgive your husband, forgive your children's father. And

00:34:56.700 once again, it took my eyes off my own suffering and, and it got them on what was

00:35:03.120 right, which was save my children's father, save my children's lives, save, save this

00:35:10.800 marriage, save this family. We love one another. We are doing good in this world. I am not

00:35:17.960 going to let the evil one destroy my marriage. I mean, I'm not going to let the evil one destroy

00:35:22.960 my walk with eternal God because of these injustices. Once I got my eyes on the right

00:35:29.540 thing, what am I calling you to be and do Kathy? First, what am I calling you to be? And

00:35:36.180 out of our being comes our doing. And again, it was getting, getting right vertically.

00:35:42.400 I do think when you go through turmoil, if you, if you keep your eyes open, God places little

00:35:50.020 angels along the way to help you, you know, and if you're just open-minded, you see, you know,

00:35:54.880 and it, and it, it, it comes unexpectedly, you know, I mean, I am just thinking as you're

00:35:58.880 talking about, um, when I left NBC and all the papers were saying terrible things about

00:36:04.240 me and online, it was just so vitriolic and awful. And, um, people were calling me a racist

00:36:09.720 and it was like, Oh my God, what's, what is going on? And I, I walked into my apartment

00:36:14.480 building and one of my doormen, his name's Solomon. He's black. He saw me and he goes,

00:36:21.920 Hey, he goes, just say, you know, I still think the world of you. I can still cry about it. It's

00:36:31.240 like just these little moments where you're like, okay, I'm okay. You know, like people,

00:36:35.400 some people can still see. Because if you were a racist, he would have known it of all people.

00:36:42.260 Yeah. Hello. Well, and I do think, you know, that's the kind of situation that can make you

00:36:48.600 angry and hold Harbor resentment, but now in the wake of what we've seen, you know, since then,

00:36:55.780 this wave of cancel culture and people being shown no grace for either legitimate mistakes or made up

00:37:02.840 mistakes, I've kind of looked at it a different way. Like maybe in the way you became a warrior

00:37:08.560 against sweatshops after being wrongly accused. I, it's not that I've become an activist exactly,

00:37:16.140 but I do speak out against cancel culture. I am open-minded to allegations of sexism and racism

00:37:22.060 and all of it. We haven't solved those problems, but I also, right. But I, but I also stand really

00:37:29.140 firmly against the elimination of grace and, and the summer, um, last summer was last summer. I got,

00:37:36.040 I started getting the weirdest thing started to happen as people started getting canceled left

00:37:40.740 and right, especially young people, teenagers, their parents started reaching out to me and I

00:37:46.080 started talking to a lot of them and trying to help them understand what's going on in the country

00:37:51.260 right now. And trying to chart a course of just setting their, their lives straight, like studying

00:37:59.060 the ship so they could get through the controversy and then sort of trying to come up with a good plan

00:38:03.660 to reemerge on the other side. Once the country's reclaimed its mind, right? Like once we've gone

00:38:09.020 back to the loving people we once were. How many kids committed suicide because somebody canceled

00:38:15.800 them, you know, canceled their life. It's, it's, you know, because we have allowed our culture to,

00:38:24.360 to, to determine who we are, to define us. And if I had let the world define me all the years that I've

00:38:31.440 in, in the, in the, in it, instead of understanding, letting my self-worth come from what God says

00:38:37.380 about me, you are precious to me. I love you. I sent my son for you to show you how to have life

00:38:45.240 abundantly and life eternally. I wrapped you in a robe of righteousness. I put a ring on your finger.

00:38:51.840 I betrothed you as my own. I mean, if you really believe that in your heart, there is nothing the

00:38:59.700 world can say about you that you will ever believe because Satan is the father of lies.

00:39:06.540 And the biggest lie is that you don't matter, that you are nothing, that you don't count in this world.

00:39:16.760 Nothing is a bigger life on the pit of hell than that. Every human being is precious.

00:39:23.820 You, you've never been content to just sit back and enjoy some of this joy and goodheartedness that

00:39:34.460 you've helped create in yourself with, with some help from above. But I mean, you, you've prioritized

00:39:40.300 your own wellness and joy. I've known, I've known that about you, but you've never been content to

00:39:44.480 just sit back and sort of say, nailed it. Right? Like you, you, you left Regis and Kathy Lee.

00:39:52.320 Never, never. You, you left Regis and Kathy Lee at its height. You were still killing it in the

00:39:57.960 ratings. This is huge, huge success. You left your show on NBC. Same. Um, I can relate to this just a

00:40:05.340 little because I, when I left the Kelly file, it was the number one show in all of cable news.

00:40:08.840 And, and, and you have something in your book saying people think you're crazy or incredibly

00:40:13.940 ungrateful when you walk away from that kind of success. You say, I was neither artists die on

00:40:19.900 the vine unless they are creating. And I had already squeezed every ounce of creative juice I had

00:40:25.000 out of my 15 amazing years. I love that. I wouldn't, I don't know if I'd call myself a creative person,

00:40:32.060 but I, I agree that if you're not doing something new, building new muscles, trying new things,

00:40:37.000 something more than just those skills will atrophy something inside of your spirit starts to

00:40:43.440 atrophy. You've been so good about not letting that happen.

00:40:48.260 Because my soul that is rotting and I, and I won't allow it to happen. I mean, I, each time I was,

00:40:55.580 you know, making tons and tons of money and, and not just for myself, but I take care of a whole lot

00:41:00.880 of people with that money. And it's crazy. The number of charities that she's involved with,

00:41:05.000 I just want the audience to know we could do the entire day on the amount of money that Kathy Lee

00:41:09.120 has given away, the number of houses she's built and charities she's funded. She, you don't talk

00:41:13.820 about it that much, but I know this is true. You're, you use that money for a lot of good.

00:41:18.540 And so I have, thank you, honey. And, but I have to weigh, well, Lord, if you are truly leading me

00:41:24.380 to Nashville, if that's the way, then Lord, your job is to take care of everybody. It's not mine.

00:41:30.560 Take that burden from me. Just find another way for this person to get this or that, or, or I just

00:41:37.880 don't let it be a burden to me any longer, Lord, because I'm, my soul is burdened that I am not in

00:41:45.320 your perfect will anymore. And, and, and I, as an artist, I'm, I'm, I'm, I, and in the culture,

00:41:51.620 the chaotic culture of the Northeast for 35 years or 40 years, I've been there now.

00:41:57.580 I, it was killing me, Megan, it was killing me. And, and once Frank was gone and the kids had moved

00:42:05.020 away and I'm in this beautiful, the most beautiful home. And I, but it was like a morgue to me.

00:42:11.400 And I, and I, there's a line in the movie, then came you, I say to her, Annabelle says to her

00:42:17.280 husband's ashes, I love you, Fred. And I always will, but, um, I got to make new memories of the

00:42:23.340 old ones are going to kill me and I'm not ready to die. Not yet. I love that line. I saw that.

00:42:29.600 I love that line. I've got to make new memories or the old ones are going to kill me. It goes back to

00:42:35.460 my fundamental advice to pulling yourself, yourself out of the depths, which is get off the couch.

00:42:41.400 Get out there. Yeah. Yeah. Just start doing proactive about it. Yeah. Right. Just something

00:42:46.720 new or something, just something other than the couch. And I feel like you stretching your wings

00:42:53.560 here, spreading your wings here and going down to Nashville, going back to your music roots,

00:42:58.980 you know, trying a new life out in your, you know, mid sixties, when you moved down there,

00:43:04.280 it's really pretty damn brave. It, it really is. It's pretty damn brave. And it's a great city for

00:43:09.400 you given all the, you know, the music and what we've talked about. Do you know it was made total

00:43:14.420 sense. Yeah. Do you like now when you look back at leaving Regis and Kathy Lee and leaving the today

00:43:20.020 show, does it, does it feel like they were both the right decisions? Oh, no, I've never regretted

00:43:26.280 either one ever, ever total, total, total peace about it. Um, always have. And, uh, and God led me

00:43:33.880 something different, uh, each time. And, and honestly, my life here is more joyful now because

00:43:39.520 it's, I have so much, um, fellowship in my faith. We meet all the time as believers and, and, and not

00:43:47.340 in a formal way, just, you know, just, just that the early churches were in homes. The first believers

00:43:53.160 met in homes. And, um, and those are the most intimate because you, you're very, very, um, uh,

00:43:59.880 uh, uh, love loving and to one another because you're, you're, and you are also held accountable

00:44:05.580 by one another. You know, you can be a, you know, a sinning on Saturday night, walking in

00:44:11.220 all nice and nice to everybody on Sunday morning, but, but you're not accountable to anybody there.

00:44:16.660 Well, stop ripping on that. That's what I love about Catholicism. You can still go in there on

00:44:20.340 Sunday, say the confession and you're good. You're clean.

00:44:22.180 You say like it's a bad thing.

00:44:26.180 I'm not putting it down. Hey, whatever floats your boat. Okay. But, um, no, I, um, I want a

00:44:33.020 genuine life and I want an authentic one. And I, last I looked in the Bible, not one person retired.

00:44:39.200 They all die. That's what they did. They died serving God, doing what he put them on this planet

00:44:45.300 to do. And that's why I write about, if you've got a pulse, you've got a purpose. It's God. My pulse is,

00:44:51.040 I, you know, just racing. I'm, I'm, I'm on fire with, you know, just so many projects,

00:44:57.840 so many loving, good things happening in my life that I've just rejoiced over. And, uh, and, and,

00:45:03.920 and the Lord had given me a word from a prophet friend of mine, uh, about a year or two ago,

00:45:09.360 right before I moved, I've lived here now for two years, but he said, Kathy, you are going to wake up

00:45:14.280 the season in your life that's coming up. You are going to wake up and laugh.

00:45:19.420 You will be laughing at what God has for you. And, and he will redeem every aspect of your life.

00:45:28.020 What, everything that you have lost in this world, he is going to redeem for you. Those promises are

00:45:34.040 not just for me, Megan. I wrote this book to encourage other people that God doesn't love me

00:45:40.400 more than anyone else. God's promises are for everyone, everyone. He requires that we trust him.

00:45:49.220 The one thing he, that the scripture says that pleases God is our faith. We have to believe

00:45:56.220 that what he says he's going to do, he will do for us. We can have momentary lapses, but we can't

00:46:02.540 stay in an attitude of unbelief and expect God's blessing. The blessings flow because we walk with

00:46:09.860 him, talk with him, sing with him, rejoice with him, pour out our hearts to him. All the blessings

00:46:16.920 flow out of relationship with him. He's not somebody we go and visit once a week in some building

00:46:25.660 somewhere. He's with us every now and second of our lives. And all he's doing for every person who's

00:46:34.020 listening right now to us, Megan, if they could just open up their heart and just say a little prayer.

00:46:40.620 I'm listening, Lord. Speak to me. Not a fancy prayer. Help me to trust you, Lord. Help me to believe in

00:46:48.420 you, Lord. I'm broken, Lord. Fix me, Lord. Just little heart cries. God hears heart cries.

00:46:55.660 He prefers them over long, windy, you know, boring. God gets bored with those tears. I mean,

00:47:01.500 those kinds of prayers too. You know, God knows the phonies. He knows the phonies from the sinner 0.99

00:47:08.300 who's crying out and saying, forgive me, Lord. I need your help.

00:47:14.440 More with Kathy Lee in just one second. I'm going to ask her about the reports that Kelly Ripa and Regis

00:47:20.180 did not get along and that he was ticked off at her for not being more grateful to him.

00:47:25.840 For giving her the opportunity of a lifetime and also about Regis's death and, you know,

00:47:31.380 how it affected Kathy and how she dealt with it. And by the way, did you know that she's the

00:47:36.220 godmother to two of the Kardashian girls? She's going to have a little fun report on the launch

00:47:41.700 of keeping up with the Kardashians. And I've got a story of my own. So stay tuned for all of that.

00:47:45.880 But before we get to it, let's talk about security. This new year, you may be excited about the new

00:47:50.380 device you got over the holidays. You get an iPad or a tablet or a phone or your focus maybe on your

00:47:55.720 New Year's resolutions or maybe both. Well, make sure your new devices and your resolutions include

00:48:01.160 one critical thing. Protection. With hackers looking to steal your information and one out of every

00:48:08.040 five Americans having been affected by identity theft, you may not be as private and secure as you

00:48:14.560 think. Think about it. All the traveling you do, you log on, you don't know who's taking a look over

00:48:19.580 your shoulder, sort of on the internet, over the internet shoulder to figure out what your online

00:48:25.440 identification is and how to steal it. And that's why Norton 360 with LifeLock makes it easy to help

00:48:30.940 keep you safe with device security to help block hackers from devices, a VPN for online privacy,

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00:48:49.480 but Norton 360 with LifeLock will help you cheers to a cyber safe new year. That's what we want.

00:48:56.960 Save 25% or more off your first year right now at Norton.com slash MK. That's Norton.com

00:49:03.400 slash MK to save 25%. So before we get back to Kathy Lee Gifford, I want to tell you,

00:49:10.360 this is a feature we call Real Talk here on the show. And just a moment on these losers over at 0.93

00:49:18.080 the Lincoln Project and these sort of never Trump nasty guys, tends to be guys. And I don't even know 0.88

00:49:25.320 what they are. Would you describe them as on the right, formerly of the right? They're all on the left

00:49:30.020 now, Steve Schmidt and so on. So I got a Twitter dust up with one of them recently because after

00:49:36.380 the riots on Capitol Hill, which I had been tweeting about as deeply wrong all day long,

00:49:43.660 I was getting annoyed because I was listening to the media go on and on about how they were right

00:49:50.980 Trump's terrible. His supporters really are deplorables. And the real lesson here is how 0.97

00:49:55.540 right the media has been. And I was really kind of, it was stomach turning to me. And I sent out a

00:50:00.780 tweet that read, and I quote, the Capitol riots are wrong, but the Trump critics using this as proof

00:50:05.960 that every criticism they've ever lobbed at Trump or his supporters has been validated is absurd.

00:50:11.980 So this guy, I guess his name is Tom Nichols. I don't know who this loser is, but he tweets out, 0.97

00:50:17.520 it's unfortunate to give her one more moment of attention, but when all of this is over, 0.98

00:50:21.560 no one should forget that she said this. Now, don't forget, this is the group that's making

00:50:26.960 lists, right? To try to keep people from publishing books, from getting speaking engagements, from

00:50:32.140 getting jobs. If they worked in the Trump administration, he's the little list maker.

00:50:36.520 And if you feel differently than Tom, we're going on his list. He's going to try to hurt you.

00:50:42.620 And the guy writes for the Atlantic and other publications. So, you know, it's not a totally

00:50:47.500 empty threat. He indeed may come after me or you. I mean, I don't, I don't give a shit about Tom,

00:50:52.160 but I, so I tweeted back to him and said, making your list and checking it twice. You don't scare 0.98

00:50:57.060 me, Tom. And your sanctimony is repulsive. And it went back and forth from there. But my point is, 0.96

00:51:04.120 this is what it's come to now. I have a different view than Tom does of the coverage of what happened

00:51:10.440 in the Capitol. I didn't like what I was hearing from the news media that tried, tried to make it about

00:51:14.960 themselves and a chance to redeem their bias against Trump and his supporters for the past four

00:51:21.140 years. And for saying that, I got a threat that old Tom was going to be reminding everyone of my

00:51:28.500 words forevermore. Well, you know what, Tom? Do it. It's in print already. Oh, and by the way,

00:51:34.120 I have several million followers and you don't. So I don't need your help reminding anybody.

00:51:38.500 Everyone knows because I put it in writing long before you threatened me.

00:51:41.400 Um, these kinds of men make me make my skin crawl. He's just a tiny, tiny man, right? Who has to go

00:51:48.360 out there because it's not just me. He's, he threatens a lot of people. Uh, I got a couple

00:51:52.100 of DMS last night from people who you don't know that well, who said they've been threatened by this

00:51:55.720 guy, uh, and then had to, you know, not follow him. Um, so anyway, I hate bullies. He's one of them.

00:52:02.900 And Tom, if you want to tell the world, anything I've said, bring it. And now back to KLG.

00:52:11.400 I've been dying to ask you about Regis, the, the, the nation's most Regis. And you know,

00:52:20.100 he was one of the greatest, right? Somebody we all loved. And of course you were the first person

00:52:26.600 after his wife, Joy, that I thought of when I saw that news. And I think that's true for most of the,

00:52:30.820 most of the country, right? That you two were a pair, you know? How did that affect you?

00:52:35.900 Well, you know, um, um, I did the same thing that I did when I heard that Regis had passed.

00:52:44.820 I did the same thing I did when I heard that Billy had, and the same thing I did when I held Frank

00:52:50.040 in my arms and I realized that he was gone. I rejoiced. I cried tears of joy because I knew where

00:52:58.900 they were and I knew who they were with. And, um, and that's, that's what the Bible calls the peace

00:53:06.460 that passes all understanding. I had shared Jesus with Regis so many times he believed in him. So

00:53:13.400 I know exactly where Regis went right into the arms of Jesus. Billy, of course, we all knew he went

00:53:18.980 right into the arms of Jesus and Frank did. And that was the song that I wrote with my friend,

00:53:23.840 Brett James, you know, and how, how could he, how could he come back once you've seen been held by

00:53:30.540 Jesus? Forget it. Nobody wants to come back after that. So I rejoiced. And then I called joy. And then

00:53:38.000 I went over to joy and just held her and the girl and, and, uh, just loved on him and kept course,

00:53:44.740 kept in touch with them, uh, since then. And, um, is there, you know, an emptiness in me, of course,

00:53:51.300 but this is how sweet God was. He, uh, Regis and Joy came over for lunch two weeks before

00:53:56.520 Regis died. And I hadn't seen him in like, well, seven or eight months because they lived in California

00:54:01.180 and COVID had happened and all of that. So, uh, I saw him get out of the car and he was,

00:54:06.840 um, they were bringing a wedding gift for Cassidy. I remember that. And I'd watched him and Joy walk up

00:54:13.620 my driveway and get in my courtyard and walk into my house hundreds and hundreds of times over the years.

00:54:19.100 And I knew just by the way he was walking and how, um, uh, he seemed so frail, but we came in,

00:54:27.340 talked about, said Regis got the world's greatest head of hair. And he just sort of chuckled. And

00:54:32.940 Joy says, tell her, tell her Regis. And I said, what? He goes, what joy? What joy? He was just here.

00:54:39.420 She said this morning when we get up, he said, we're going to see Cass today, right? And, uh,

00:54:45.940 and Joy said, yes, sweetheart, we're going to go to her house for lunch. He goes, yeah, that's great.

00:54:51.300 I, I don't like my hair, Joy. You got to wash and dry my hair, blow dry. I don't like it. I got to

00:54:56.460 look good. I got to look good for Cass. And I looked at her. You always look good to me, honey. He said,

00:55:05.880 I adore you. So we laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh about three hours that day. See, I have those long

00:55:12.260 lunches with people I love. So keep that in mind, Megan. That's what, that's what was going on with

00:55:17.320 you. The only time in my, in my life, since I was a kid that I ever had corned beef and it's

00:55:21.420 delicious. Mary, please God, let it open up again. You had everything. Yeah. You needed to eat. You

00:55:27.840 needed to, you needed to celebrate life. Uh, I knew it was going to be a hard time for you, but

00:55:32.540 here's the thing. The next day, uh, or as I was leaving Joy's house, which was the next day after

00:55:38.400 Regis had passed. Uh, she said, Kathy, I just have to tell you something. She said,

00:55:43.000 Regis hadn't laughed in months, um, before we saw you. He was so depressed because of COVID. He

00:55:51.160 couldn't go anywhere and be Regis. He couldn't show up anywhere and go, Regis is here. Regis,

00:55:57.040 look everybody. Regis is here. That brought him such joy, making people happy. He just lived for it.

00:56:03.800 He couldn't even go out to lunch with his old friends and talk about the good old days because no

00:56:08.000 restaurants were open in California. He couldn't even walk in the streets because they won't let

00:56:12.500 you walk on the streets and nobody would go, Hey, Regis, because if you have a mask on, Regis

00:56:18.160 couldn't be who he was anymore. And I think he had a broken heart from it. And Joy said this to me,

00:56:25.860 this is the way I end the chapter in the book about Regis. She said, Kathy, I just want you to know

00:56:30.660 that the last time I heard Regis laugh was with you.

00:56:38.000 That's amazing. What a compliment. What a great thing to hold on to.

00:56:42.700 What a blessing. I made him happy again. He made me happy. And, you know, we became even

00:56:48.160 dearer friends in the 20 years after I left the show. We never, ever had had a fight.

00:56:53.760 You didn't. I know you guys stayed, stayed tight, but there were reports that the same was not true

00:56:58.480 for your replacement in Regis, Kelly Ripa and, and he, and that, that they had had some sort of a

00:57:04.580 rift that she basically wasn't grateful to him for the spot. That that's what the report said.

00:57:09.080 Oh yeah. I read it. I hear all that stuff too. You know what? Um, Regis isn't here to tell you

00:57:15.540 his side of it. And I would never share it because, because he's my dear friend and, and Kelly,

00:57:21.280 I think has been kind of open from what I understand about the fact that they weren't

00:57:25.400 close friends, like, like region. I were so, um, you know, I hear all the same stuff. I choose to just

00:57:31.040 believe that, um, I try to believe what I know to be true. And what I know to be true was that

00:57:38.160 Regis wasn't happy there anymore. And, and, um, it was time for him to go. And it wasn't that I

00:57:44.240 wasn't happy any, when I left with Regis, I never was unhappy with Regis or Hoda. They were the reasons

00:57:50.340 I stayed so long, you know? So it was a different, it was a different kind of relationship. Um, I would

00:57:57.240 never comment on it any other way than that. Um, she and, um, Ryan asked me to come on after, um,

00:58:05.160 after Regis, uh, died. And I had asked Joy specifically, I said, Joy, everybody's going

00:58:12.340 to be asking me to come on their shows. What do you want me to do? I'll do whatever you want.

00:58:17.740 She says, please just do the Today Showcast. And I said, okay.

00:58:21.440 Oh, that's good.

00:58:23.780 There were many other shows I said no to.

00:58:26.380 I mean, I, you're too classy to say it, but I will say it speaks volumes of how that relationship

00:58:30.500 ended. And it also ended similarly for her and Michael Strahan, who is a great, great guy. Um,

00:58:35.900 anyway, I'm sorry, but I, as you could, as everybody knows, I'm not as nice as you are.

00:58:40.860 So I see the truth and I'm going to tell the audience what it is.

00:58:43.320 Well, sometimes you, you, you say, uh, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth, right.

00:58:50.460 For another time. And that's what I do in this book. There are stories I tell in this book,

00:58:55.360 Megan, that I've never told, but I can tell it now because certain people have you,

00:59:01.000 I learned a lot. I mean, I knew, for example, that you were the godmother to two of the Kardashians

00:59:05.780 to Kendall Jenner and Kylie Jenner. Right. But I didn't know, like you, you were,

00:59:09.660 you were with them like really recently. And I didn't know you were the one who gave them

00:59:15.260 that. Yeah. The day Kobe Bryant died. And I did want to ask you about that because

00:59:20.160 they've become, you know, since you and Kris Jenner became so close and all that years and

00:59:23.980 years and years ago when, when Robert Kardashian, I think, was he still alive when you became friends

00:59:28.700 with her or was she? Okay. Yeah. They were happily married. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So she's,

00:59:33.360 she lost her husband. She remarried Bruce Jenner. You were married to a big sports guy. Um,

00:59:38.340 what do you think about what's happened to that family since then? I mean, you knew them when none

00:59:44.820 of us knew any of these girls and now the whole world knows the Kardashian children.

00:59:51.240 Yeah, but they don't, that's, that's the key. They don't know them. They know what they've seen of

00:59:56.180 them on television, just the way they think they know Megan Kelly. They think they know Kathy Lee.

01:00:01.360 They think they know Regis. They only know what we have shown them. And, um, the first time,

01:00:07.900 I mean, I was responsible for them, uh, for their series being made that you can, you can blame me

01:00:14.160 for it or you can kiss me. But, um, my, my, my agent at William Morris agency had been after me and

01:00:20.180 our family to do, um, you know, a reality show forever. And I said, no, no, our private life is

01:00:27.900 private and we're happy because we keep it that way. And I said, well, but I do have a family that

01:00:33.940 would, it would be perfect for, and, and, and the person who gets, who does it is going to make a

01:00:39.320 gazillion dollars and it's going to be a huge hit. And she goes to, I said, um, the Kardashian

01:00:45.720 Jenner clan there at Kathy Lee and Frank walk out one door in walks the, the, the, the Jackson five 0.98

01:00:52.640 in walks, uh, Wayne Gretzky in comes, you know, the Laker team in comes, you know, that guy Simpson,

01:00:59.980 of course. And, um, and I said, uh, you know, she said, well, I'm not going to touch it, but she

01:01:06.400 said, I think I'll take it to Ryan because she had just signed Ryan and that's, that's, that's how

01:01:12.040 it all happened. That's so crazy. I just spoke with Chris two days ago. This is, we still are dear,

01:01:17.720 dear friends, which is we say dear friends because after I watched the pilot episode with

01:01:23.800 my dear friend, Christine has been with me for over 30 years and Cassidy who was 14, I

01:01:28.420 think at the time I looked at Cassidy and I looked at Christine, we went over to Christine

01:01:33.780 to watch it because it, it would have upset Frank so much, I think. And you said, Oh Lord,

01:01:39.880 what have I done? Yes. Yes. So, um, because I had said to Chris, Chris, do it. It's going to

01:01:47.320 be fantastic for the family, but be, be one of the producers, have some power and make

01:01:52.500 sure that they don't manipulate you into all these situations that aren't real. It becomes

01:01:58.460 unreality television. I said, make sure they see you praying like you do go on to church

01:02:03.780 like you do Bible study once a week, like you do. She says, Oh no, no, I'm going to, I'm

01:02:08.840 one of the producers that we will. And so then when I watched the pilot episode, um, I, you

01:02:16.060 know, I looked at Cass and I said, Cass, what do you think? And this is exactly the truth.

01:02:22.180 This says everything. She said, but mom, they're not like that.

01:02:28.960 And that was the truth.

01:02:30.740 You know, it's funny. Cause, uh, I, I think about them sometimes cause a lot of feminists 1.00

01:02:35.800 don't like them. I don't, I'm not a feminist, but, um, I understand in this particular case,

01:02:41.060 the criticism, right? So selfie focused and like these enlarged bodies that they don't

01:02:46.180 totally own as, you know, manipulated. And it's just the selfie culture that people blame

01:02:51.160 them for the start of the selfie culture and the constant photographs and all. And I get

01:02:54.140 all that. Look, and I can argue the other side just as easily. They're brilliant business

01:02:57.780 women. They're billionaires. They're essentially in the beauty business. You may not like the way 1.00

01:03:02.400 they do it, but they're smart and they're savvy and they, they made something of themselves.

01:03:06.460 Um, but it's not that I want them to be an influence on my daughter. I certainly don't

01:03:13.240 want that. And it's just a funny story about that. They seem, no, I mean, they seem kind

01:03:18.620 hearted actually. I interviewed them and each of them seemed really kind hearted and sweet

01:03:21.960 with one another. It's just the, the imagery and all that. So my daughter Yardley had a friend

01:03:26.200 over, um, not, not long ago. And, and I was doing my makeup and they were in the bathroom

01:03:30.660 with me and the girl goes, is that Kim Kardashian's makeup? And I was like, no, no. And, and

01:03:35.720 then my daughter said, who's Kim Kardashian? And I said, Oh, nevermind. It's not important.

01:03:40.340 And she said, no, who's Kim Kardashian. I'm like, nevermind. It's not important. So now

01:03:44.100 I have both of these nine-year-old girls wanting me to tell them who, and I, I put down the, 0.56

01:03:48.780 the mascara and I looked at them and I said, look, I do not wish to be the person who brings

01:03:54.840 this woman into your lives. Move along. 0.95

01:04:00.240 I can see you doing that. Yeah. Well, you know, they are, they are very sweet girls. They're, 0.55

01:04:08.860 they're so sweet. They've made some really bad choices and guess what? So have I, you know?

01:04:15.460 Um, yeah, no. And they're very, very generous and they, they do a lot of good too. But, um,

01:04:21.520 you know, my, my point was, I, I said to Chris, Chris, understand, I love you and I'm going to

01:04:28.160 love, I'm going to die loving you as my friend. Cause we were that close. I said, but I think

01:04:32.600 to maintain our marriage, our, our friendship, I think that we, I need to not watch the show,

01:04:38.520 uh, as you know, very often or very much. And I asked only just one thing and she goes, okay,

01:04:44.700 what? I said, please keep my goddaughters off the damn stripper pole. And apparently she didn't, 1.00

01:04:55.160 she didn't do that. They were on the stripper pole. You know what? I've had so much hate mail 0.98

01:05:01.200 about my friendships with them. And I go, you know, I'm not going to tell you who your friends

01:05:05.640 are. You have no right to tell me who my friends should be.

01:05:08.720 They don't seem like bad people. This that's also a lot of envy.

01:05:12.320 My mother was about the most about Christian woman in the world, moral beyond, beyond. She loved

01:05:19.900 the show. Now she knew Chris. I said, mom, you love it. She goes, you know why? Cause at the end

01:05:27.640 of every episode, there's still a family and they love each other. And I went, wow.

01:05:33.160 I got a good one. I got a good one for you. So Kim Kardashian. So I asked her when I interviewed them

01:05:38.100 about these photos that had just been released of her in a bikini and they'd been taken unauthorized

01:05:44.180 by some paparazzi and you could see cellulite on her bottom. And of course the tabloids went 1.00

01:05:50.620 nuts for it. Like Kim Kardashian has cellulite, right? Cause the image is always so perfect and

01:05:55.520 people just enjoy when they discover flaws. And, um, so I said, what did you think of that? Far from

01:06:00.820 being embarrassed. She was like, can I tell you something? She goes, there were at around that same

01:06:06.020 time. There were pictures of me in a bikini and my, my rear end looked amazing. And she goes, 0.86

01:06:11.260 Megan, they were taken on the same day, the same day. She goes, except I took one and the paparazzi

01:06:17.440 took another. And I said, so was that, was it all about the filter? And you know what she said? She

01:06:21.800 did womankind a favor. And she taught me something that I will never forget. She said, if you want to

01:06:28.620 have a good beach photo taken of yourself, you don't go at noon. That is when the paparazzi got me.

01:06:34.680 She said, you go to the beach right around the sunset hour, six, six 30, depends on, you know,

01:06:40.780 what time of year it is. And she said, and you put on your big round cellulite ridden bottom, 0.99

01:06:49.080 something called Sally Hansen legs, which you can get at CVS for just a few dollars. And dude,

01:06:55.520 it works. I used that when I did my movie, when I had all those leg shots for my

01:07:01.560 Sally Hansen legs. No way. God bless Kim Kardashian. She's willing to spread the wealth KLG. That's 1.00

01:07:07.560 what, that's one of the things I do like about the woman. That product has been around even longer 1.00

01:07:13.220 than, than the Cardassian. That's been around forever. It's like Sally Hansen nails.

01:07:18.320 I thought it was going to be like, then you must buy Kylie Jenner cosmetics. No, no, no. It was

01:07:23.260 good old Sally Hansen. Like she's been around since before. Well, Christy Lane, who used to do 1.00

01:07:27.880 the commercials on Fox news when I first started by the, by the rolling ocean. Remember Christy

01:07:33.020 Lane? Yeah, of course. By the way, I do want to recommend people. The movie then came you,

01:07:37.640 which you worked really hard on. And I think it's a wonderful story about loss and starting over and

01:07:43.140 and letting the next phase be the greatest, whatever age you're at. So I want to ask you

01:07:48.520 that, as you say, you know, in the, in the film, I have to make new memories of the old ones are

01:07:52.460 going to kill me. Are you at that place now where they can actually coexist peacefully and joyfully,

01:07:59.720 and you can hold on to all the, all the bad, all the good, all the depression, all the anger,

01:08:05.700 all the forgiveness, and still go forward into this next phase, willing to be vulnerable,

01:08:11.320 willing to take risks, willing to put yourself out there in whatever, in relationship, in,

01:08:16.780 in life. Are you asking me if I, am I dating somebody? I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm on to

01:08:25.660 you. For the record, I didn't ask that. I just want that noted. Okay. I, the day that I stopped

01:08:33.120 believing in love and the possibility of love is the day that my soul has died. For sure. I dated,

01:08:41.320 about, um, four different guys, uh, last year. It had been, uh, it had been three years, I think,

01:08:48.960 since Frank had passed or four years. I don't know. And I started, I dated a few of them and

01:08:53.160 they're all really good guys, nice guys, um, wonderful guys, but not my guy, you know,

01:09:01.020 they weren't right for me. And I always ended it very soon because it's not fair to use people just

01:09:07.760 because you like to go dancing just because he likes music the way you do, or just because

01:09:11.500 he's a good kisser, you know, all the things that, um, I mean, if I can't have, um, a love

01:09:18.200 that's, that's beyond the love that I had with the love of my life, which was Frank, um, then,

01:09:27.540 then, um, I'll, I'll take friendships, great friendships with great guys, uh, rather than

01:09:32.180 another bad marriage for sure. Like my first one was, but I, uh, I, I don't even know if I should

01:09:39.400 say this, but I am, let's just say right now, um, I'm very, very happy right now. And that's all

01:09:47.460 until we end the podcast and then I'll tell you the truth. Are you regularly feeling flushed and

01:09:53.820 wanting a cigarette? No, I never wanted to smoke, but I do blush on occasion. I am thrilled to hear

01:10:05.120 it. Go get them. Kathy Lee. Lots of love. I miss you. And I love you. I love you too, Megan. God

01:10:11.420 bless. Give my love to that beautiful family of yours. Hey, if you liked the program, please go

01:10:18.220 ahead now and subscribe to it. Would love to have you as a subscriber and download the episodes as they

01:10:23.300 come up. You can give it a five-star rating. If you're feeling super kind in the new year,

01:10:27.200 apparently Apple's not taking reviews anymore, or at least hasn't been for a month. So you can,

01:10:31.720 if you have thoughts on the show or who we should book, send me an email at questions

01:10:35.540 at devilmaycaremedia.com. This hour has been brought to you in part by Grove Collaborative.

01:10:43.000 This is a new sponsor and I have to say their stuff has been really nice. Take the guesswork

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01:10:55.840 home essentials. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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01:11:17.680 I'll see you next time.

01:11:22.280 Bye-bye.

01:11:26.680 Bye-bye.

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01:11:37.300 Bye-bye.

01:11:43.580 Bye.

01:11:45.200 Bye.

The Megyn Kelly Show - January 11, 2021

Kathie Lee Gifford on God's Importance, Regis Philbin, The Kardashians, and Her Career ｜ Ep. 49

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