The Megyn Kelly Show - Ken Paxton Dominates Cornyn Ahead of Race Against RADICAL Talarico, with Tom Bevan, and SHOCK Prince Andrew Stories ｜ Ep. 1326

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00:00:30.000 All right, full-time thoughts.

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00:01:00.480 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:12.180 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Wednesday.

00:01:15.980 We have big revelations in our second hour about Prince Andrew's ties to Jeffrey Epstein.

00:01:22.020 And it's unbelievable, the new revelations in this book.

00:01:24.360 You know, I remember when he went on that interview with the BBC and was like,

00:01:29.220 I never touched Virginia Dufresne, and I don't sweat, and therefore her account of us in that nightclub can't be real because she said I was sweating.

00:01:38.420 Remember that whole thing?

00:01:39.900 And eventually he kind of got pushed out of the royal family as an official member as a result of that and some alleged disclosures he wasn't supposed to do when he was the British envoy.

00:01:50.780 But according to this new book, which we have the author of in the second hour, he wasn't just one 16 or 17 year old girl.

00:02:00.600 There's too many to count.

00:02:03.020 He denies this, but his practice was reportedly to everywhere he went, book two hotel rooms, one for where he would sleep and one for his young latest tryst.

00:02:15.620 And he liked him young.

00:02:17.320 Again, he denies it, but we'll talk to the author.

00:02:20.780 Uh, that there, it was happening over and over and over. Like now I'm starting to wonder whether

00:02:26.220 his statements about Virginia Dufresne were true only insofar as like, he genuinely didn't remember

00:02:33.420 her. There'd been so many. It's like, they weren't true him denying like ever having been with her,

00:02:39.000 but like, I, I'm not convinced he did remember her. It, she was not alone. And we'll get into

00:02:45.540 that and some other big revelations, including the massive fight he had with Prince Harry

00:02:49.700 over Harry's terrible wife. It's a very interesting new book. Okay. But first,

00:02:57.140 huge news in the political world today. Last night, Ken Paxton, the Trump-backed attorney

00:03:02.960 general of Texas, defeating four-term incumbent Senator John Cornyn in the Republican runoff

00:03:09.880 to be the party's nominee for U.S. Senate. Now, it's not done. He's got to go to a general

00:03:14.140 election in November. We'll get to that in one second. But huge win for Paxton last night.

00:03:18.280 Back in March, Senator Cornyn actually receiving slightly more votes than Paxton during the original primary.

00:03:26.360 But because neither man crossed the 50 percent threshold, the race moved to a runoff.

00:03:30.580 And this time, thanks in part to Trump's endorsement of Paxton last week, it was a blowout for Paxton.

00:03:37.140 With over 95 percent of the votes counted, Paxton currently leading Cornyn by nearly 28 points.

00:03:43.820 28.

00:03:44.300 Eight. He went from like a very slight loss to him to absolutely trouncing him.

00:03:51.060 Senator Cornyn conceded last night, saying he would support the Republican ticket and lamenting that voter turnout was not higher.

00:03:59.880 This is what happens in these special elections, in these midterm elections, too.

00:04:03.540 People stay at home. Some get the result they want. Some don't.

00:04:07.180 The ones who don't, who didn't vote, have only themselves to blame.

00:04:11.440 Cornyn seems to feel that was his voters.

00:04:14.140 Paxton, for his part, was jubilant and did not shy away from tying his campaign victory to President Trump.

00:04:21.720 When everyone in Washington told him to abandon me and abandon the people of Texas, he didn't listen.

00:04:27.740 Instead, he gave his complete and total endorsement.

00:04:31.900 President Trump is the leader of our party and his endorsement is the most powerful force in politics.

00:04:38.140 And I'm honored to have his support, and I look forward to working with him in the Senate to deliver for Texas.

00:04:52.060 Paxton's victory sets up a contest now between Paxton and this guy named James Tallarico.

00:04:59.760 He's a member of the Texas State House, a former middle school teacher who is currently a student at Austin Presbyterian.

00:05:08.140 Presbyterian Theological Seminary with one year of classwork remaining. There's a news story on his

00:05:14.040 church today and what it's offering the children. Let's just say when I went on my little tour of

00:05:21.180 other possible Christian denominations besides Catholicism, my husband's Presbyterian. I quickly

00:05:26.860 ruled out the Presbyterian church in our town when I saw the pride flag flying in front of it. 1.00

00:05:32.020 Okay. Where Doug's from in the Philadelphia area, they don't have the pride flag. It's basically just a bunch of wasps. But Presbyterianism, it's hit or miss. Unlike Catholicism, we're usually hardcore.

00:05:44.840 So this guy, Tallarico, took academic leave to run for Senate in a state where no Democrat has won statewide office in over 30 years.

00:05:56.020 And yet many serious political prognosticators believe he could potentially be the one to do it.

00:06:03.860 Now, Representative Tallarico is likely to have his work cut out for him.

00:06:06.820 All right. Thanks in part to his far left statements about, for example, there being six

00:06:14.360 genders and also that Jesus helped him reckon with his own whiteness. Same among others. Watch, 0.73

00:06:24.140 watch this. God is both masculine and feminine and everything in between. God is non-binary.

00:06:33.900 Modern science obviously recognizes that there are many more than two biological sexes. In fact, there are six.

00:06:41.000 For me, prophetic voices like Jesus have helped me reckon with my own whiteness, my own masculinity, my own certainty, my own ego.

00:06:50.340 It's a never-ending process, and it's a painful process.

00:06:53.840 Something that you love that's not family or friends.

00:06:56.580 I love, I'm just saying this because it's on my mind, the trans children who showed up yesterday at the state capitol to advocate for their humanity.

00:07:07.120 Being Christian and being pro-choice are absolutely consistent because Christianity is a feminist religion.

00:07:17.080 Jesus Christ himself was a radical feminist.

00:07:21.700 And he went on to say that the Virgin Mary was pro-choice.

00:07:24.920 memory serves um for paxton i mean let's face it it's kind of obvious what you should do when

00:07:34.740 running against talarico if you are a republican especially in texas i think any of us would know

00:07:40.020 exactly what to do and paxton absolutely does watch this campaign is not about red versus blue

00:07:47.400 it's about so much more my opponent is the most extreme radical the democrats have ever nominated

00:07:54.500 And he's even running a vegan campaign, whatever that is.

00:08:00.660 He goes by a few names that you may all have heard of.

00:08:03.400 Some people know him as Tofu Tallarico.

00:08:07.660 Some people call him Six Gender Jimmy.

00:08:12.480 I've even heard some people call him James Tallarico. 0.81

00:08:16.700 And others refer to him simply as Low T Tallarico.

00:08:20.080 But no matter what you call him, let me tell you this.

00:08:24.700 James Tallarico is a threat to everything we hold dear in this state and in this country.

00:08:29.700 He's a threat to our security and our safety.

00:08:33.140 He wants open borders and even said a welcome mat should be at our southern border.

00:08:39.720 He's a threat to our children.

00:08:42.060 He wants boys and girls sports. 0.74

00:08:44.840 Gender mutilation surgery performed on kids.

00:08:48.380 And when asked what he loved outside of his family and friends,

00:08:52.140 you heard what Brandon Gill said.

00:08:53.380 His first answer was trans kids.

00:08:55.960 That's weird, and that's a radical guy.

00:08:59.780 How's he wrong?

00:09:01.480 Tallarico, for his part, seeking to make the case about Paxton's character.

00:09:05.540 Paxton has been previously indicted on securities fraud and even impeached,

00:09:08.820 though he's never been convicted or removed from office.

00:09:12.000 Here's Tallarico last night. Watch.

00:09:14.420 Something just happened in Texas.

00:09:16.160 the most corrupt politician in America, just became the Republican nominee for the United

00:09:23.140 States Senate. Three years ago, Ken Paxton was impeached by his own party for using his public

00:09:30.520 office to enrich himself and his donors at the expense of the people. That kind of corruption

00:09:37.800 is the rot at the core of this broken system. It's why we can't afford anything. It's why we

00:09:44.560 can't get ahead no matter how hard we work. Ken Paxton has gotten away with it. They've all gotten

00:09:51.180 away with it. But that ends this year. If we the people can come together to defeat the most corrupt

00:09:59.060 politician in America, we can defeat this entire corrupt system. We can start unrigging this

00:10:05.840 economy. We can start raising our pay, cutting our taxes, lowering our costs. We can finally

00:10:12.360 get ahead. It's time to come together. The people versus Ken Paxton.

00:10:19.200 That's clearly going to be his slogan. It's weird looking at him. It reminds me, you know,

00:10:23.020 I have our youngest is 12, Thatcher, and he has a little buddy who, I mean, none of these boys

00:10:28.980 has really completed their puberty yet. They're all 12. And this boy's right. You know, he's very

00:10:34.080 young, just like Thatcher. But he has the deepest voice. He has like a deep man voice.

00:10:39.320 it's actually kind of funny listening to this you know kid where you're 12 you're pretty scrawny

00:10:44.460 for the most part uh you haven't developed any muscles yet you know they're working on it pretty

00:10:49.360 much all of them working on it but you're very young and you're very fresh-faced and yet his

00:10:53.840 buddy's got this very deep voice that's what tallarico reminds me of like a little boy with a

00:11:00.340 unusually mismatched deep voice when you just listen to him like the people listening this on

00:11:05.280 Sirius XM or on podcast, I think you would picture a much larger, more manly man. Then you see this

00:11:11.680 guy and it's like, don't, don't you have like to get back to school for your PE class? Um, look at

00:11:18.660 him. Yeah. Just like, it looks like he needs to wear a tie too. And he's one of those politicians

00:11:25.120 who should be praying that he goes prematurely gray just to be taken a little bit more seriously.

00:11:29.020 Yeah. So this is, I just think, I think Ken Paxton is going to make mincemeat of this guy.

00:11:35.180 That's my own personal. I think he's just going to crush this kid. I do. But I could be wrong

00:11:41.380 because the polls are showing something different as of today. They show a tight race with Tallarico

00:11:47.160 leading by 1.5 points over Paxton in the real clear politics average. Now, Paxton has been

00:11:53.020 getting hammered by Cornyn in ad after ad after ad. That's not going to stop. The ads are just

00:11:58.060 going to switch to now paid and funded by Tallarico. But question, query whether all the bad

00:12:05.860 Paxton attacks have already been factored in by at least Republicans. Like, will they really

00:12:12.500 depress turnout for Paxton? I don't know. I don't think so. I think Cornyn would have depressed

00:12:16.700 turnout for Republicans. But look, let's ask somebody who's actually full time in the business

00:12:22.280 of politics. Well, sort of. His name is Tom Bevan. He's the co-founder and president of Real

00:12:28.140 Clear Politics, and he's co-host of the show on SiriusXM on the Megyn Kelly channel right before

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00:13:33.820 your first subscription order. Armra.com slash Megan. Tom, welcome back. So I don't know,

00:13:41.620 what does your gut tell you? I just think that Ken Paxton's going to wipe the floor with this

00:13:46.600 fresh-faced, six-gender, Jesus is non-binary guy? 1.00

00:13:53.260 You know, I don't know that he's going to wipe the floor with him, but I still think this is 0.82

00:13:59.160 an uphill battle for the Democrats, right? They dream of turning Texas blue. It almost happened

00:14:03.780 in 2018, Beto O'Rourke against Ted Cruz. He lost by about 2.6 percentage points. That's as close

00:14:09.700 as they've come, as you mentioned, in 30 years to winning a statewide race. And so it's going to be

00:14:15.220 amazing if if this guy james tallarico turns out to be the guy who does turn texas blue because

00:14:21.540 to the points that you were just making he doesn't even he doesn't even code like he's from texas at

00:14:26.640 all um he talks about running a vegan campaign and all these things you know they nominated last

00:14:33.860 time around they nominated colin allred who's like a big strapping former football star from

00:14:38.600 the state you know i mean at least he seemed like a democrat that could win in texas and he got

00:14:44.100 destroyed. Now, both times, you know, the last couple races, Trump has been on the top of the

00:14:50.000 ticket, and that has really helped Republicans. This is a situation where Trump is not on the

00:14:54.580 top of the ticket. And so in some ways, it's a best case scenario for Democrats. They're going

00:14:58.520 to be unified. They're going to turn out in full force to vote for this guy. And then the question

00:15:03.640 is, can Ken Paxson, you know, will his troops turn out? There's going to be a slice of Republicans

00:15:10.260 who voted for John Cornyn, right, who are not going to vote for Kim Paxton. And it's not going

00:15:15.100 to be a huge slice, but it's going to be, you know, it's going to be a few percentage points

00:15:19.480 and all those percentage points are going to matter. Are they going to vote for James Tallarico?

00:15:23.440 I don't believe so. I think they'll just stay home and they'll just say, I'm going to sit this

00:15:26.880 one out. So you combine those things, total, you know, unity on the Democratic side, you know,

00:15:32.540 a little depression in the Republican side and some points that slip away and then independence.

00:15:36.820 But, you know, you're right. I mean, this is going to be, it's going to, Tallarico is going to try and keep it focused on the economy and issues and corruption. But on the Republican side, this is all going to be culture war stuff. I mean, this is all going to be, this guy cannot, you know, Ken Paxson's argument is basically going to be, look, I'm a flawed guy. You may not like me, but you can't elect him because he's crazy.

00:16:00.520 And he has all these radical ideas about immigration and sexuality and religion and all these things. 0.95

00:16:08.540 And he's just, he's too far outside of the mainstream for Texas.

00:16:12.520 And so I agree with you, Megan.

00:16:14.000 I think, I think, I don't think it's, he's going to wipe the floor with him.

00:16:17.360 But I think Ken Paxson, you know, if I'm putting money down on it, I think he's still the favorite.

00:16:21.440 It's still an uphill battle for Democrats in Texas.

00:16:24.640 Okay, so Texas has Austin, which reminds me of my kids' little state capitals.

00:16:29.740 like Texas has Austin, then we go north to Massachusetts, Boston, California, Albany, New

00:16:35.840 York. Anyway, if you have young kids, you know, you have to memorize this song to get the state

00:16:39.620 capitals down. So Texas has Austin, which is blue, but the rest of Texas is still pretty red. I mean,

00:16:45.900 I was just down there in the fall in Sugar Land and in Fort Worth and in San Antonio on my tour.

00:16:54.120 And I met thousands and thousands of Texans. These people are never going to vote for Tallarico, no matter if they have some issue with Ken Paxton, or for that matter, Trump or not. These are diehard red, white and blue Americans who will never vote for someone who says they're six genders. Hell no, they're not going to.

00:17:18.680 And in fact, whatever they think about Paxton, this will make them get off their couches and make sure that this ridiculous person doesn't win. 0.99

00:17:28.200 I'm going out. I'm saying it on the record. It's not going to happen. 0.97

00:17:32.200 I think I think Paxton is going to win. He's going to win easily.

00:17:35.360 I don't think Cook Political Report is right to move this race now that Paxton is the nominee from likely Republican to just leans Republican with a warning that they might be moving it to toss up, depending on how things go.

00:17:48.580 I disagree. Cook, you may know political races, but I know Texas. I just I know that state and I

00:17:54.940 know the voters down there. It's just no fucking way are they going to vote for this guy. Just 0.98

00:17:57.960 can't. OK, that's just where I am. But now he knows he's in trouble. Tallarico does, because

00:18:04.100 let's face it, they went with the red meat Republican and good, like good, because I do

00:18:09.560 think he can generate enthusiasm in a way Cornyn couldn't with all due respect. I think he's a good

00:18:13.280 man, but pretty swampy. And I'll get to that in a second. So they went with a red meat Republican

00:18:19.840 and already he started launching his attacks, Tom, on Tallarico. And you heard some of it there. 0.58

00:18:25.760 He's workshopping some nicknames, I see.

00:18:30.360 I like it. I'm into them. But the vegan thing is interesting because

00:18:34.260 what do you associate? What do you think of when you think of Texas? You think of

00:18:38.000 cowboy hats, rodeos, steak, wrangler jeans, and their love of their state. That's what I think

00:18:47.020 of when I think of Texas. And you don't go to Texas and say, I'm a vegan. In the same way,

00:18:53.580 you don't go to Iowa as a politician and say, I don't eat corn. Like, it's just certain things

00:18:59.160 are not done. But he did it because he's an idiot. He's a woke leftist dope. So here, 1.00

00:19:06.880 let me start with what he's saying now, this Tallarico guy. He went on with the Midas Touch

00:19:12.540 Guys, that's a Democrat podcast, and tried to claim it's not true. We heard Trump last week

00:19:18.000 being like, he's a vegan. He's a vegan. It's vegan. It was funny. Trump's like, I don't even

00:19:23.300 know what that is. All I do is eat at McDonald's. And he tried to deny any piece of that on this

00:19:30.640 podcast. And a new ad he's put out tries to deny it too. Watch. And, you know, I'm an eighth

00:19:35.220 generation Texan. I've been eating barbecue since before Ken Paxton's first indictment.

00:19:40.500 And if all they have on me is lying about me being a vegan, I feel pretty good about our chances

00:19:46.340 this November. And you're absolutely right. You know, so many of my family members, my friends,

00:19:53.200 my neighbors who voted for Donald Trump in 2024, they voted for him because they thought he was

00:19:59.480 going to lower costs. They thought he was going to end the forever wars. They thought he was going

00:20:03.880 to release the Epstein files and drain the swamp. But just one year later, they've seen how he's

00:20:08.820 done the exact opposite. So there's a lot of disillusionment. And what I'm trying to do is

00:20:13.500 speak directly to those Texans who feel disillusioned, who feel like the system

00:20:17.740 doesn't work for them, that it only works for billionaires and puppet politicians like Paxton

00:20:23.400 and Cornyn. And I think if we can bring those... All right, we get the general message. You get

00:20:28.680 it. And I would like to speak to those disaffected Texans as well. I, too, am against the war in

00:20:32.960 Iran. I, too, one of the Epstein files disclosed without Trump objections. I would never in a

00:20:38.540 million years vote for this lunatic. It doesn't matter. No president is perfect. You cannot vote 0.99

00:20:44.020 for that man. I like you cannot do it. You are actually physically endangering the children of

00:20:49.260 Texas and beyond because this is a U.S. role, a federal role that you're electing this next

00:20:53.620 candidate too. So no, but there he is denying that he is a non-meat eater and scoffing at the vegan

00:21:03.760 charge. And just today we saw, it came out in mid-March, he put out a picture of him. It reads

00:21:11.060 official statement from James Tallarico on vegan accusations. And it shows him in a Texas red,

00:21:17.540 white and blue shirt, eating an enormous piece of beef at a barbecue. Okay. And, you know,

00:21:24.340 you heard him there like, I've been eating barbecue forever. Well, it's not true. This is

00:21:29.960 not a made up thing. In 2022, when he was running for the Texas State House, listen to what he said.

00:21:37.620 Sot 10. We have, I think, heard more and more issues of animal welfare. I think not just because

00:21:44.140 it's the right thing to do and the moral thing to do but also it's as all of you know necessary to

00:21:49.480 fight climate change it is now existential that we try to reduce our meat consumption and that

00:21:55.500 we try to respect animals in all aspects of society and so I am proud to say that our campaign

00:22:01.660 has officially become a non-meat campaign so we have really we are we are only buying vegan

00:22:10.340 products from from our local vegan businesses. Some of you may know big nonas. They were little

00:22:15.520 nonas. And then they opened up brick and mortars and other big nonas. But we just got our pizza

00:22:19.880 from there today. And so the point is, I think all of us, not just policymakers, but but everyone

00:22:26.640 has to take personal responsibility in this effort. You are busted. And why are you wearing

00:22:33.260 a mask in 2022? That's a deal breaker in and of itself. But he's so busted, Tom. It's right there

00:22:39.220 on tape he's not going to be able to get away with this shit no and that's the problem with 0.99

00:22:42.880 with all these comments i mean this is not this is just republicans playing his his own words 0.99

00:22:48.440 to the public and he so he's not going to be able to get away with saying they're lying about me

00:22:52.760 they're taking stuff out of context it's all right there you know this reminds me megan you remember

00:22:58.280 white dudes for kamala harris i mean you know the idea that they're trying to win over uh you know

00:23:04.940 male voters and so he gets accused of being vegan what does he do he goes and like gets this

00:23:09.600 giant you know piece of meat like this turkey leg thing and tries to pretend like it's basically

00:23:16.420 like a whole cow yeah it's just it's like like they don't know how to do it i mean he's he

00:23:22.400 clearly does not know right tom how to uh act like an like a like a manly man i mean i don't

00:23:29.660 know how else to put it. And so that's going to be true. That's going to be a real problem for

00:23:35.940 the campaign. And obviously, the Paxson folks are going to get as much mileage out of that as they

00:23:39.600 can. So he is, in fact, on record as showing that he has been eating vegan. I mean, what?

00:23:47.700 Well, what what like what could be the possible alternative? You weren't eating vegan in your

00:23:52.220 personal life, but you tried to tout that your campaign ate vegan. Like, were you lying then or

00:23:57.160 now? Did you want the electorate to believe you were a vegan because you thought it would help you

00:24:00.820 then, but you were secretly going home at night and eating that enormous piece of beef that you're

00:24:05.080 showing us in that picture? Well, then you were lying. You were being disingenuous when you said

00:24:09.360 that with your double mask in 2022 in front of a group, whatever it was. You can't have it both

00:24:15.620 ways. So now he says, I've been eating meat since before he first got indicted. And he shows the

00:24:20.980 huge, when did you pick it back up? I mean, honestly, this podcaster should have said,

00:24:25.740 when did you start eating meat again? Because you made a point out of saying you didn't eat it

00:24:31.720 in the 2022 campaign. Were you trying to make a distinction between your personal life and

00:24:36.760 your professional life? Isn't that a distinction without a difference? I'm pretty sure if you're

00:24:40.660 a vegan, you're round the clock vegan. It's like when my brother-in-law, whose wife had declared

00:24:48.500 they're going vegan, was like secretly sneaking beef and we're like, aren't you guys vegans now?

00:24:54.400 No, and he was like, I don't like labels.

00:24:58.980 Right.

00:24:59.680 No, it's – again, he's not going to be able to get away with it because it's all on tape.

00:25:05.540 Excuse me, but even the broader context of that clip –

00:25:07.420 And also, but here's the other piece of it, and I'll give it back to you, but the other piece of it is just like they do care whether you eat beef down in Texas.

00:25:13.700 I actually think that they do care.

00:25:15.560 But the lying, he's clearly lying already.

00:25:20.300 Right.

00:25:20.400 Like that's the kickoff to his general election campaign is a big fat lie on the Midas Touch podcast.

00:25:25.540 Yeah, no, even the rest of the context of that clip, right?

00:25:28.760 He was talking about animal welfare and climate change in Texas.

00:25:33.220 I mean, it's like, really, this is, you know, and again, he gets applause.

00:25:36.220 Cut to the Fred Flintstone on the bone.

00:25:39.440 Yeah, no, and he gets applause because he's speaking to this niche group of far left sort of progressives.

00:25:45.160 You mentioned Austin, but there's also, you know, Houston, all the all the urban areas have gotten have gotten more left wing over time in Texas with all these folks who've moved in.

00:25:57.180 And that's, quite frankly, the Democrats hope. There are 18, 18.6 million registered voters in Texas now, which is up from up five percent from just the last cycle.

00:26:06.360 So it's been growing. And that's why Democrats think they have a chance at finally turning Texas blue, because they've got all these imports from California and elsewhere.

00:26:15.160 Hmm. I'm going to give you a little bit from Jesse Kelly, also a resident of the MK channel

00:26:25.000 on Sirius XM. And he lives in Texas, in Houston, and he has been very, very clear that Senator

00:26:34.500 John Cornyn needed to lose this race. And it's interesting to me because the establishment,

00:26:40.620 for lack of a better term Republicans on Capitol Hill did not want Paxton at all right like there

00:26:48.540 was a report last week that John Thune when he heard of Trump's endorsement was like you know

00:26:52.820 the president's gonna do what he thinks is right and the report was he then threw up his left arm

00:26:58.780 which if you know anything about John Thune they pointed out is it like a dramatic statement you

00:27:03.520 know he's a very measured guy but clearly he was frustrated and that's him being diplomatic but he

00:27:09.820 was frustrated. And the more moderate Republicans and he's at the top of the Republican food chain

00:27:15.020 in the Senate. And they thought Cornyn would be an easier candidate to get across the finish line

00:27:21.580 in a general election because he doesn't have this same baggage that Ken Paxton has.

00:27:27.140 Cornyn has different baggage. And it really is kind of interesting on whether this race says

00:27:32.580 something about where the Republican Party is going. You know, I get it. Like, let's check

00:27:37.060 Paxton's baggage for a second because he wasn't convicted either when he got impeached, because

00:27:42.460 an impeachment is like an indictment sort of in the legislature that then you have to be convicted

00:27:47.380 on. The same way Trump was not convicted in the Senate of his impeachments, neither was Paxton.

00:27:52.520 He did face an indictment criminally that he somehow managed to kind of beat. He never pleaded

00:27:59.200 guilty, but then he did agree to a mild punishment. In any event, put that to the side because

00:28:05.760 Because the like brash, middle finger, starting millions of fights.

00:28:13.660 This guy, I love Ken Paxton because I love all the legal fights he's chosen.

00:28:18.320 Like over the years, every single one I've been like, yes, yes.

00:28:21.900 Who is this guy?

00:28:23.140 This is amazing.

00:28:24.480 You know, like every single thing he's taken.

00:28:26.220 So he's not afraid.

00:28:28.200 And, you know, Cornyn, again, doesn't seem like a bad person, though swampy.

00:28:32.080 but just like two you you scratch my back i'll scratch yours and i do wonder i'm gonna play

00:28:39.180 this sound but you tell me whether this tells us something about the mindset of republicans

00:28:44.700 in texas and beyond about where they'd like to see their party go watch i mean everybody talks

00:28:49.240 about rhinos and draining the swamp and washington dc corruption i mean john cornyn is the face of

00:28:55.300 all that john cornyn as a texas senator is an amnesty guy he's talked about it multiple times

00:29:00.820 how he wants to do an amnesty deal for illegals after that horrible uvalde school shooting

00:29:05.420 john cornyn was the one who worked with democrats to pass gun control legislation 0.90

00:29:11.280 john cornyn has screwed over the right time and time and time again but john cornyn is insanely

00:29:19.100 powerful he's a very high-ranking republican and he keeps the swamp full and john cornyn's one of

00:29:25.860 these guys who keeps a lot of pockets full in dc of course it's always taxpayer money he finds a way

00:29:32.360 to to get money spread around washington dc like so many of these long established senators do and

00:29:38.720 then miraculously when he comes up for re-election instead of having a normal war chest john cornyn

00:29:44.380 had a hundred million dollars to spend on the primary alone why you think they did that because

00:29:50.400 they love his winning personality they did that because the guy spent 20 plus years funneling

00:29:56.000 money back to them and he's going to spend the next six doing the exact same thing it's all about

00:30:00.200 money and power it's everything gross that grosses normal people out about politics is this exact race

00:30:07.220 right here pretty good tom what do you think yeah there's definitely something to it i mean i don't

00:30:12.920 know that cornyn was was seen as as corrupt but he definitely you know he was seen as part of the

00:30:18.880 establishment. And that's not where the base of the party is. I mean, this is the lesson for all

00:30:23.780 of these politicians. And we see this on the left and the right, which is when you stop responding

00:30:28.160 to the wants and desires of your constituents, you're going to get replaced. And that's exactly

00:30:34.100 what happened. He was not responding to the MAGA base in Texas. He was still running sort of the

00:30:40.360 George W. Bush Republican Party playbook in Washington, D.C. And so he was promptly shown

00:30:47.300 the door. And as you mentioned at the top of the show, I mean, Paxton was ahead in the polls,

00:30:51.300 but I don't think anybody saw it being a 30-point blowout, which is what it ended up being. And so

00:30:56.900 I think that was a pretty emphatic answer by the base of the party in Texas, that they had

00:31:04.220 had enough of this guy, and they wanted somebody new who they feel like is going to fight for what

00:31:09.320 they want. Yep. Jesse's show is called I'm Right, and I think he's feeling that way today.

00:31:17.300 Back to the now Paxton-Tallarico matchup, there was a little debate about this on CNN between David Axelrod and Scott Jennings, both, I think, doing a pretty good job of articulating what we're going to see over the next couple of months as this fight starts to play out.

00:31:34.600 this is a big one. This is a big one. Democrats feel like this could be a damn pickup and they

00:31:40.140 feel like Republicans have just helped them. So it's interesting to hear what Axelrod is saying 0.98

00:31:44.460 and how Jennings is defending it. You know, preview of the next of the summer months. Watch

00:31:49.000 the Texas economy isn't great. People have concerns about affordability. The Hispanic

00:31:55.620 vote in texas which was very strong for donald trump in 2024 uh is now uh a by double digits

00:32:05.540 in talarico's corner in this race i don't think security fraud is is mainstream in texas or some

00:32:13.780 of the other problems that paxton's i don't think paying six million dollars or millions of dollars

00:32:19.240 out to whistleblowers because of the abuse of them by paxton who they blew the whistle on is

00:32:26.260 mainstream i don't think that's what people think in texas i don't think six genders no meat and

00:32:30.720 calling the american flag a complicated we'll fight it out but i think at the end of the day

00:32:35.920 people are going to want someone who's going to speak to their concerns and this is not their

00:32:39.820 main concern we ran that race in 24 trump got elected i'm not sure it's going to play in 26

00:32:45.200 Democrats learn nothing. You heard Axelrod try to wiggle on those accusations by Jenning. I mean,

00:32:51.920 we've already gone through them. They're on camera. The wiggling is not going to fly.

00:32:56.060 He's said what he said. It wasn't in the distant past. You're going to have to deal with it. He

00:33:01.220 actually is very radical, this guy. And no amount of ribs dripping in barbecue sauce will save him.

00:33:09.560 All that is required to sink him is an exposure of things he's actually said, similar to Kamala Harris, frankly.

00:33:17.780 But those are sort of the battle lines.

00:33:19.460 And Ken Paxton, you tell me, Tom.

00:33:21.080 So I hadn't actually been paying that much attention, to be honest, to his issues in his past.

00:33:29.240 But there are quite a few.

00:33:30.960 He's got a fair amount of baggage.

00:33:33.840 Does any of them stick, do you think?

00:33:35.940 Do any of them stick around and actually gain traction now that it's Dem versus Republican in Texas?

00:33:41.720 Well, look, I think you saw Tallarico. He's going to he's going to argue, you know, corruption and that he's corrupt and that he's part of, you know, the Republican Party from top to bottom from Trump and his, you know, one point eight billion dollar anti-weaponization slash slush fund in the ballroom and all that stuff that Ken Paxson is just a corrupt foot soldier in Trump's, you know, corrupt Republican army.

00:34:04.720 Will that have some sway with voters?

00:34:09.320 Yeah, probably a little bit.

00:34:10.860 Certainly the economy is still the number one issue.

00:34:13.080 And that is going to be where I think Tallarico is going to make his best points is that,

00:34:19.280 look, Trump promised all these things.

00:34:20.860 He didn't deliver.

00:34:21.440 I'm going to go and try and deliver on behalf of Texans.

00:34:27.080 However, and you're right, Ken Paxton has, he's got issues.

00:34:31.040 He's got marital issues in his past.

00:34:32.600 I mean, all these things are going to be sort of in the background.

00:34:35.560 But Tallarico is just, as we've talked about repeatedly, look, Tallarico has, I think he

00:34:40.560 raised earth-shattering, it was like a record-setting $27 million in the first quarter.

00:34:45.680 They're going to spend $200, $250 million on this race when all is said and done, both

00:34:49.560 sides.

00:34:50.160 It's going to be an absolute bruising battle.

00:34:52.480 And so both of these candidates are going to take their hits.

00:34:55.460 But eventually, the public is going to be fully informed about both these candidates,

00:34:59.280 and they're going to have to stand on stage one-on-one.

00:35:01.600 And Ken Paxton is going to be able to, you know, and Tallarico is going to have to defend those statements.

00:35:06.620 And he may try and say, well, he's lying about me.

00:35:09.040 I never said this.

00:35:09.720 But to your point, I don't think that's going to fly if you've seen on television for six months him actually saying all of these things. 0.79

00:35:15.940 So, yeah, it's going to be it's going to be a an absolute barn burner of race.

00:35:21.460 And obviously, you know, this is a race that Republicans would rather not spend all of the time and hundreds of millions of dollars on.

00:35:28.260 They'd rather be spending it on other races in other parts of the country.

00:35:31.300 But we are where we are. It is going to be an interesting test case because both bases got what they want, right? The Democratic base got their left wing darling who they think is going to finally turn the state blue. And Republicans got their MAGA red meat guy who's going to, you know, take it to them. And so we'll see. It's going to be fun to watch.

00:35:52.500 yeah uh that a word on the economy for the first time um in recent days the rate of inflation

00:36:00.080 is higher than the um than the uh wage growth across the united states so people's wage growth

00:36:09.500 is not keeping up with the price of inflation wage growth was i think 3.6 and inflation is 3.8

00:36:14.620 that's not good that's going to become a democratic talking point yet another reason why we need to

00:36:18.880 get inflation down, why we need to wrap up the war, why we need to actually be focused on economic

00:36:23.080 issues if we want to continue seeing people like Tallarico get defeated. I want to talk about

00:36:28.960 Paxton's past, but just as a quick aside, I mentioned it in the intro. Tallarico, he goes

00:36:37.120 to the St. Andrews Presbyterian Church where he's working on becoming some sort of a minister.

00:36:42.760 And the Daily Wire reporting this morning, there the children have access to a library stocked with

00:36:48.300 banned books that promote ideas rejected by most Christians, including books that contain 0.99

00:36:53.400 descriptions of anal rape, incest, and oral sex. There is a book called Gender Queer. We've talked 0.99

00:37:03.360 about that before. All Boys Aren't Blue, which discusses anal rape and incest. Sorry. Other 0.99

00:37:09.840 books in the church catalog include, this book is gay, trans kids are kids, called out the voices

00:37:16.260 and gifts of LGBTQ Presbyterians, The Courage to be Queer, Becoming Nicole, The Transformation

00:37:22.860 of an American Family, which is about a boy who's trying to turn into a girl, which is 0.60

00:37:28.240 not possible. 0.94

00:37:30.520 This book is Gay, has a chapter on the ins and outs of gay sex. 0.96

00:37:34.440 I mean, I think we can figure it out. 0.54

00:37:36.360 And this is being offered in a church, in a Presbyterian church that he attends and where

00:37:42.940 he'd like to become a minister.

00:37:44.040 The book, The Courage to be Queer, claims that God is queer, which dovetails well with his belief that God is non-binary.

00:37:53.120 So it's not a one-off.

00:37:55.960 And this is the same church where Tallarico delivered his sermon that asserted, our trans community needs abortion care too.

00:38:03.080 Needs abortion care too.

00:38:04.120 Like this guy, Tom, if not only would I be excited to run against him if I were Ken Paxton, but I'd be thrilled on the national Republican level to hang this guy like an albatross around the neck of every Democrat, same as they're going to do with Mom Donnie.

00:38:25.180 Do you agree with that?

00:38:26.500 Where do you stand on this?

00:38:27.520 Do you support his candidacy?

00:38:28.660 Do you believe that there are six genders?

00:38:30.200 Do you think God is queer?

00:38:31.280 Do you think that transgender people need abortion care? 1.00

00:38:35.980 Like, that's what they should do over and over and over. 0.99

00:38:40.420 There should be 10,000 ads almost immediately across the country talking about how radical these Democrats are, how they've learned to be a little quiet about it.

00:38:50.220 But this is who they're nominating.

00:38:52.580 Yeah, it's look, I'll just go back.

00:38:55.600 This is not California.

00:38:56.560 This is not Illinois.

00:38:57.520 This is not New York.

00:38:58.360 This is Texas.

00:38:59.420 And so that story, while in those other blue states, it might not be seen as as big of a deal.

00:39:05.880 I think this this story is going to haunt him.

00:39:08.880 And, you know, we'll see also how the media handles him and whether they hold his feet to the fire and they ask him tough questions about things like this story or they just kind of give him a pass.

00:39:19.500 And that that remains to be seen because even the media in Texas is, you know, slants to the left for the most part.

00:39:27.180 So, you know, it's interesting, too, Megan, you talk about and we talked about this a little bit on our program because we talked about Graham Plattner and you look at these candidates.

00:39:37.120 I mean, it is going to be astonishing if in a year which is seen as like a blue wave year, Democrats are almost certainly going to take the House of Representatives and, you know, gas is four and a half dollars a gallon.

00:39:52.340 Trump's approval ratings at its lowest level in his second term in our RCP average, and Republicans

00:39:56.820 are sort of fighting uphill battles. If Democrats throw away three Senate races that they could win

00:40:03.360 in Texas with Graham Plattner up in Maine, and if they nominate El Syed in Michigan,

00:40:08.760 that could be another one that Republicans actually win a seat. And we've seen this happen

00:40:15.320 in the past. Republicans have done it. They did it with Sharon Engel when she was running against

00:40:19.560 Terry Reid, Christine O'Donnell, Todd Akin. It happens. Even in good years for a party,

00:40:24.960 they nominate someone who is so far outside of the mainstream that they can't get them across

00:40:30.420 the finish line, even with a big tailwind. And that might be a situation that Democrats find

00:40:35.680 themselves in, not just Texas, but other states as well. It's a very good point. The Paxton issues

00:40:44.140 relate to his behavior for the most part in office. He also is accused of having a couple of

00:40:50.620 affairs on his wife. I'm not sure Republican voters care about that anymore. You know, look,

00:40:56.260 look who our president is. Like, I kind of feel like the argument like by Heather McDonald that

00:41:04.120 like you can't regulate Eros, she says. Do you remember, can I just make a quick comment? Do you

00:41:11.900 remember in the 2000 election when the biggest story was that george bush had gotten a dui like

00:41:19.040 20 years before and that was the big dirt that dropped the weekend but i mean that wouldn't even

00:41:23.440 make a ripple in today's environment no one would care and i agree with you the idea of like like uh

00:41:29.560 you know an affair here and there is so passe now it's it's like i don't know that anybody cares

00:41:35.340 about that anymore on either side i know i'm like okay so he has been unhappily married got it okay

00:41:41.260 Okay. But they may care about some of these, I don't know. I'll tell you what it is. So my team

00:41:48.940 has done this research and used, among others, ABC in Texas. Several months after taking office

00:41:54.400 as attorney general in 2015, he was indicted on felony securities fraud charges in Texas

00:42:00.540 and was accused of misleading investors in a company years earlier. So securities fraud in

00:42:06.400 connection with his time in the private sector. And he would have faced decades in prison if

00:42:13.880 convicted. The case dragged on for nearly nine years. It ended in a pretrial agreement in March

00:42:19.460 2024 that required him to complete community service and pay restitution, but he did not

00:42:24.600 have to enter a plea under the deal. So that means he's not technically convicted, but he made this

00:42:31.500 case go away by paying some money and doing some community service. That's an amazing outcome

00:42:36.200 for anybody charged with a crime. Anybody would take that. I don't know how he got it, but good

00:42:41.340 for him because that's a good outcome. Along the way, he also faced a civil case based on similar

00:42:46.140 allegations brought by the SEC, but that was thrown out by the judge in 2016. So the SEC could

00:42:54.200 not make the case against him. And clearly the federal securities fraud charges brought against

00:43:00.240 him in Texas. The prosecutor did not have faith in making them in court because they wouldn't

00:43:04.980 have agreed to such a sweetheart deal for Paxton if they believed in them. So I've got an asterisk

00:43:10.020 on both of those, on that particular controversy about his federal security charges. I've got an

00:43:16.600 asterisk. It's not great, but I don't think they got him. Then in 2020, a group of top Paxton

00:43:22.820 deputies reported him to the FBI, voicing concern that he was abusing his office. Now, these are

00:43:30.340 Paxton deputies, so these are going to be Republicans. These are not Democrats doing a

00:43:34.140 hit job on him. But they're top Paxton deputies who reported him to the FBI, voicing concerns

00:43:39.200 that he was abusing his office as the AG to help an Austin real estate investor and political

00:43:46.860 donor by the name of Nate Paul. Some of the Paxton employees resigned, but four were fired

00:43:53.240 and they later sued Paxton under the Texas Whistleblower Act. He fought bitterly with

00:43:58.820 the former aides in court and in public, branding them rogue and disgruntled. And in 2025, a Travis

00:44:04.000 County district court judge agreed that the former aides were improperly fired and awarded them $6.6

00:44:10.160 million. Paxton appealed, but then dropped his appeal a few months later after announcing his

00:44:17.340 Senate campaign. So he abandoned his appeal and it appears to be acknowledged then that he owed

00:44:22.100 those four fired alleged whistleblowers $6.6 million. The FBI investigated the whistleblower

00:44:28.700 claims against him, but the Justice Department declined to prosecute. And you may think,

00:44:34.180 ah, that's Trump. He endorsed him. No, it was Joe Biden's DOJ that said, there is no there,

00:44:41.740 there, there, whatever. This is a civil matter, if anything. And they declined to pursue it.

00:44:50.260 The DOJ did not go after Paxton. The claims by the whistleblowers were central to the impeachment

00:44:57.500 that was brought against him in the Texas House in 2023. That was a Republican controlled body.

00:45:03.320 that impeached him, but he was acquitted in the Senate on all 16 articles of impeachment that

00:45:10.180 were brought against him, including one that accused him of bribery and so on. So that it's

00:45:16.260 a checkered history for sure. I guess, you know, politics, as they say, Tom, it ain't beanball.

00:45:21.920 No, it's not. And look, it's the most damning part about that is that it was, you know,

00:45:30.500 The whistleblowers were Republicans and he was impeached by Republicans because that is something, you know, you can't just wave away.

00:45:36.860 It's like, oh, it was a partisan witch hunt. Right.

00:45:40.060 And that's obviously what Tallarico is going to.

00:45:42.340 And the six million dollar settlement is also something that Tallarico has already talked about.

00:45:48.620 And whether that was, you know, you know, spending taxpayer money to clean up after this corrupt guy.

00:45:53.940 I mean, he's going to continue to use that as a as an argument.

00:45:56.740 So, yeah, he's got baggage. I mean, everybody knew about this ahead of time.

00:45:59.600 they knew about the infidelity stuff uh and so you know they but they but they nominated him

00:46:06.740 warts and all and and so this is what the republican party wanted and it's what they got

00:46:11.900 and again we may look back at this and say it was a terrible decision by donald trump to wade in and

00:46:17.940 endorse him he probably was going to win anyway um and and maybe maybe republicans are the ones

00:46:24.320 who have nominated someone who's outside the mainstream and will cost them a race that they

00:46:27.640 probably would have otherwise won oh boy oh boy yeah well one of these two one of these people

00:46:33.360 is going to be too radical for texas and it's clearly going to be talarico uh but anyway the

00:46:38.200 um the this is the reason thune threw up his arm you know because thune of course thought

00:46:44.880 cornyn was going to be easier to get across the finish line in november and but by the way the

00:46:49.780 polling data didn't totally support that either megan it was like talarico and who didn't what

00:46:54.240 The polling data, the general election matchups, you know, Cornyn was running like a point better than, which is basically statistical noise.

00:47:02.520 I mean, they were basically, Republicans were running even against Tallarico.

00:47:06.260 I think he was leading by a point and a half from one and a half a point in the other or something like that.

00:47:10.320 It was not some dramatic, like, John Cornyn is going to win this race by 10 points and Ken Paxton is going to lose it by five.

00:47:15.900 I mean, it was basically the same.

00:47:19.120 Well, Thune and other top Republicans are reportedly also worried about the money in

00:47:23.300 the Republican coffers saying we don't have Ken Paxton, as they say, notoriously bad at raising

00:47:30.080 money and that this is going to cost the national GOP $100 million, which they didn't have to

00:47:38.160 spend. That Cornyn would have been a shoe in. I don't know. But that's apparently another objection

00:47:43.140 that the more establishment Republicans have. Really, one of the things that this came down

00:47:47.480 to, though, Tom, in my estimation from my corner of the world is the SAVE Act, because the SAVE Act

00:47:53.720 is this federal bill that would require voter ID everywhere on a national level, among other

00:47:58.640 things. It would just tighten up the voting restrictions or requirements state to state for

00:48:03.000 these elections. And there's no way of getting it passed without getting rid of the filibuster

00:48:08.880 or changing the filibuster in some way. You can switch to the, you know, requiring the actual

00:48:15.780 verbal filibustering where like you can't just say we filibuster and they say okay it's filibustered

00:48:20.500 we're screwed you could bring back the actual verbal filibuster where you you just actually

00:48:25.340 have to have a senator filibuster stopping the debate on this thing yeah yeah over and over

00:48:30.820 non-stop but or you could actually have a vote to eliminate the filibuster and along with it

00:48:37.980 minority rights in the senate and that could be done with the votes that we have now in the

00:48:42.660 Republican Senate, Republican-controlled Senate. It can be done by majority vote. I actually looked

00:48:47.340 this up. Okay, so this is how it would go. You'd have to have a rules change. You'd have to have

00:48:58.260 somebody try to bring the SAVE Act to the floor. And then somebody would say, okay, well, we

00:49:06.540 we filibuster the vote or you don't have 60 votes to bring it, um, to the floor. And then

00:49:12.860 they'd have to have sort of a point of order within the Senate. And the, the Republicans

00:49:18.180 would basically have this Republican, I think maybe the parliamentarian would have to overrule

00:49:22.380 the, uh, the filibuster, like overrule it and say, we're not going to stop debate on this.

00:49:29.060 We are going to bring it to the floor and therefore changing the filibuster and the

00:49:32.020 minority rights in the Senate forever. There are many, many Republicans who want this done, Tom.

00:49:36.540 because they think the Democrats are going to do it when they get control.

00:49:39.540 Some say, let's just do it on a limited basis,

00:49:41.480 the way we first got rid of it for federal court district judges,

00:49:44.520 and then Republicans said, we're going to pull it for Supreme Court judges too.

00:49:47.340 Maybe you could do it on just election-related bills.

00:49:50.880 Cornyn was dragging his feet on it, but eventually said, okay, I'll do it,

00:49:53.960 because he knew his electoral chances were dwindling.

00:49:57.060 They still don't have the votes.

00:49:58.640 They don't have the Republican votes to do it.

00:50:00.240 They do not have 51 Republican senators who would do it.

00:50:02.880 So where does that leave us on the SAVE Act, this whole thing?

00:50:05.360 Well, you know, that was interesting because when, after the initial primary, right, Trump weighed in and was like, basically offered to endorse Cornyn if he would publicly come out in favor of moving the SAVE Act, right?

00:50:18.960 And it was almost like a quid pro quo for the endorsement.

00:50:21.940 He did. Yeah.

00:50:22.640 And that's the other thing.

00:50:24.060 So, and by the way, I don't, Trump has been out, very outspoken.

00:50:29.680 He's been hammering on the Republicans in the Senate to do this, right?

00:50:33.440 He break the filibuster, get this done, because he knows once once this election comes through, I mean, he's basically going to be a lame duck and it's going to be very hard for them to get anything done, particularly if they if they do lose the Senate.

00:50:45.720 But I also think the Trump has it's been so weird, like he congratulated Ken Paxton today, but also was like John Cornyn is going to be a good friend of mine for a long time.

00:50:54.020 And I mean, he's been very, very favorably disposed. Normally, you know, everyone's talking about Trump's revenge tour and he's he's taken out all these folks that have crossed him in some way.

00:51:02.100 bill cassidy here and you know thomas massey over there john cornyn didn't seem to he seemed

00:51:07.780 to like john cornyn it's not that john cornyn did anything it was a base play yes it was a base

00:51:13.860 trump needed to give the base a bone the base is mad about epstein there are a lot in the base who

00:51:17.940 don't love iran this is like a no-brainer it's for the jesse kellys of the world and like i'm

00:51:22.740 sick of being disappointing he saw the wind was blowing he saw the wind was blowing in in ken

00:51:26.820 paxton's direction and sort of jumped on the bandwagon he would never say that but that's

00:51:30.020 That's effectively what happened.

00:51:31.920 Yeah, and got his way.

00:51:33.620 And Jesse Kelly got his way, which we're happy about too.

00:51:35.720 All right, Tom, thank you very much.

00:51:37.100 Coming up next, a bizarre and gripping Royal Deep Dive.

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00:52:42.100 All right, full-time thoughts.

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00:53:15.380 Andrew Loney is a royal biographer and investigative journalist.

00:53:18.920 and he's making some explosive new claims that must have Buckingham Palace absolutely freaking

00:53:24.100 out. Just to give you a preview, the book talks about Prince Andrew's hatred for King Charles,

00:53:30.560 new accounts of Andrew's alleged predatory behavior, including requests for 16-year-old

00:53:37.120 blondes, 16, and his need for two hotel rooms, writes the author, one for sleeping and one for

00:53:45.040 entertaining sex workers. Also, Andrew's fights with Prince Harry, like physical fights,

00:53:51.600 other kinds of fights with Prince William and Meghan Markle. There's really kind of no one

00:53:56.940 he gets along with other than his old pal Jeffrey Epstein before he died and Ghislaine Maxwell.

00:54:02.880 So this thing is a must-read summer book, to say the least. The book is entitled The Rise and Fall

00:54:08.820 of the house of york entitled it's it's called entitled the rise and fall of the house of york

00:54:17.340 and it's available right now i think you're going to enjoy it andrew welcome to the show

00:54:21.600 lovely to be with you it's wonderful to see you this i mean my jaw was on the floor reading this

00:54:28.820 book i don't even know where to begin uh a couple of highlights up front here uh from from the notes

00:54:33.700 that we took. He, as I said in the tease for your book at the top of the hour, it wasn't just

00:54:39.880 Virginia Dufresne, who was a young woman with whom he allegedly slept, the Jeffrey Epstein

00:54:44.480 young woman. You say he had multiple requests. It was kind of standard for 16-year-old blondes

00:54:51.740 while traveling as the UK envoy, that he was known for allegedly groping young girls at parties and

00:54:59.360 stewardesses on planes and of, for example, sending pictures, naked pictures, to senior

00:55:06.340 army officers, including the chief of the defense staff, that it was an open secret what a creep he

00:55:15.020 was when it came to young girls and women. Yeah, it's extraordinary. I mean, these stories

00:55:20.640 with people on the record have never really emerged. And I'm just amazed that, you know,

00:55:25.720 that they haven't, because he was extraordinary with his predatory behavior. And he's finally

00:55:32.260 being called out. In fact, I only used about 10% of the material I had. I've added another 40 pages

00:55:38.120 to the paperback. But I just had so many of these stories, again, with people on the record,

00:55:43.020 former protection officers, policemen, members of staff, that, you know, you just can't ignore them.

00:55:50.380 So it reminded me of when he went on with the BBC, when the allegations of him and Virginia

00:55:57.380 Dufresne and his connections with Epstein and his renewal of the friendship, even after

00:56:01.360 Epstein struck that plea deal on solicitation of an underage prostitute, which again is

00:56:08.600 not a thing. 0.95

00:56:09.420 But in any event, you can't be a prostitute if you're underage. 0.99

00:56:12.240 That's called rape or sexual assault. 0.96

00:56:14.540 In any event, he gave a disastrous interview to the BBC that was just so bad.

00:56:18.720 it was kind of the end of him as a public figure. But he, of course, was asked about the Virginia

00:56:24.100 Dufresne allegation. She's the young blonde who was in that infamous picture of Prince Andrew

00:56:28.300 at an Epstein party with Ghislaine Maxwell. And he tried to deny any knowledge of her. But here's

00:56:34.880 a bit from that. 51B. July of this year, Epstein was arrested on charges of sex trafficking and

00:56:41.720 abusing dozens of underage girls. One of Epstein's accusers, Virginia Roberts, has made allegations

00:56:48.660 against you. She says she met you in 2001. She says she dined with you, danced with you

00:56:55.980 at Tramp Nightclub in London. She went on to have sex with you in a house in Belgravia 0.75

00:57:02.180 belonging to Gerlaine Maxwell, your friend. Your response? 0.82

00:57:06.000 I have no recollection of ever meeting this lady. None whatsoever.

00:57:11.480 You don't remember meeting her?

00:57:13.620 No.

00:57:13.740 She says she met you in 2001. She dined with you. She danced with you. You bought her drinks. You were in Tramp nightclub in London. And she went on to have sex with you in a house in Belgravia belonging to Gerlaine Maxwell.

00:57:32.980 Didn't happen.

00:57:34.640 Do you remember her?

00:57:36.920 no i i i've no recollection of ever meeting her um i'm almost in fact i'm convinced

00:57:45.400 um that i was never in tramps with her there are a number of things that are wrong with that story

00:57:51.400 one of which is that is that i don't know where the bar is in um tramps um

00:57:57.800 I don't drink. I don't think I've ever bought a drink in Trump whenever I was there.

00:58:08.040 This is like every lie detecting skill I have is going. It's like so many lies there. It's so

00:58:15.260 obvious. But the reason I raise it is because, Andrew, there were multiple. It's possible he

00:58:22.860 didn't remember her. It actually is possible. I see the sound by a little differently here because

00:58:27.140 there appear to have, it looks like there was a girl in every port.

00:58:31.920 I mean, there were certainly a lot of girls, absolutely. I mean, but the fact is that he

00:58:36.160 ordered Virginia Giffray off a catalogue, in effect, there were these books of photographs

00:58:40.480 that were circulated, and he kind of, it's not by chance that she was brought to him.

00:58:44.560 We know from some of the Epstein file releases that he was actually discussing Virginia Giffray

00:58:52.260 and her story as soon as the story broke. They were looking at ways to how they could discredit

00:58:56.540 A PR firm was brought in to do that. And that continues to this day. If you've gone to Trump,

00:59:02.680 you'll know that the bar is literally on the dance floor. You can't literally go there without seeing

00:59:07.020 the bar. I had countless people say that actually he does drink. And it was an extraordinary thing.

00:59:13.100 He was lying about things he didn't even need to lie about. And that was what I found with the

00:59:16.940 book, both he and Sarah Ferguson. Every single thing they said had to be double-checked because

00:59:22.200 you couldn't believe a single thing. The book points something out that's actually very sad,

00:59:28.980 and I confess made me view Queen Elizabeth differently. But you suggest that he had

00:59:36.700 a sexual experience as young as age eight with somebody, which again, would not be a sexual

00:59:45.020 experience. That would be an assault of some sort if it's with anybody who's older. And that by the

00:59:50.740 time he was 12, I think you're right, he'd had at least half a dozen sexual partners. I mean,

00:59:56.840 this is horrific to me, like what happened to him when he was young and really did make me start to

01:00:02.180 reassess the queen, who was not just a queen, but was his mother.

01:00:07.540 Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's an extraordinary story. I was very nervous about putting it in.

01:00:11.460 It seemed far-fetched, but it came from a good source. It does, in some ways,

01:00:15.700 present him as a victim it does explain the sex addiction the inability to sustain relationships

01:00:21.540 the constant need for sex workers uh and certainly talking that came from a good source i got other

01:00:28.640 sources saying similar things involvements with other members of female members of staff there

01:00:33.280 i mean he was physically quite well developed though emotionally kind of arrested uh and i

01:00:39.080 mean these stories don't seem to be unique i mean to us they seem shocking but i think uh diana's

01:00:44.220 brother talks about a similar experience when he was at prep school so I kind of put it in there

01:00:51.400 hoping it might flush out more people and some people have come forward with more stories to

01:00:55.820 back it up so it does paint him in a slightly different light and I was very keen that this

01:01:01.140 shouldn't be a hatchet job I should try and present him in as balanced way as I could I

01:01:05.420 should be as sympathetic as I could towards him to try and explain his behavior and I think this

01:01:10.400 does give us some other new insights. But you're absolutely right. The Queen does not emerge well

01:01:15.600 from this book. I was vilified when the book came out for even suggesting that she could have put

01:01:20.720 her own family ahead of the crown, for example, and that she should have behaved in this way. 0.97

01:01:26.060 But mothers do have blind spots. And it's now, in some ways, becoming clearer and clearer that she

01:01:32.360 did make all sorts of excuses for her son. She kind of buried her head in the sand, if anything,

01:01:37.760 was brought to her about some of his activities and the palace itself is now trying to shift the

01:01:44.800 blame onto the queen to protect the king king charles i mean she certainly was involved in

01:01:49.980 paying the hush money to virginia jiffrey the 12 million pounds to to keep her quiet

01:01:53.880 and she was aware of what was going on she couldn't not be aware not only was the story

01:01:59.520 in the press the whole time but actually her own lawyers were were being written to by various

01:02:04.700 people with stories about Andrew's activities. And members of the intelligence services and the

01:02:09.400 foreign office were constantly giving her stories of his bad behavior. But just to round back,

01:02:15.200 are you suggesting you do not have that nailed down? Because that's quite a thing to put in

01:02:18.780 your book if you don't have it nailed down. You say, according to a source close to Andrew,

01:02:21.860 he had his first sexual experience aged eight, lost his virginity at 11 after a friend's father

01:02:26.460 hired two escorts for the boys in a West End hotel. I mean, is there doubt in your mind? Because

01:02:32.180 in fairness to prince andrew that should be really clear uh no i mean the source has proved to be

01:02:37.420 very accurate uh as i say i was surprised the lawyers let it through but uh other things have

01:02:42.780 come to light since the book came out that kind of reinforced that story so i think that was

01:02:47.460 you know it was justified to to to run it and as i say various things were going on in that prep

01:02:53.240 school it's not unique uh to have boys who have their sexual experience at that sort of early age

01:02:59.400 But I agree. I imagine if you're a prince, it's not hard to get girls, but like more than half a dozen before age 13 is the age you put here. That is that's very damaging to a young boy. And it just to me, it's like very sad.

01:03:15.800 I would imagine even if the Queen isn't sitting there at prep school with him, isn't there someone who oversees these boys, like the royals in particular, to make sure that they're being brought up right, that there's adult supervision, that they're not being, I don't, just taken advantage of by whoever allowed this to happen?

01:03:34.820 You're absolutely right. I mean, there's a duty of care to someone of that age. It is an extraordinary story. I stand by my source, and as I say, other new materials come along since then to back it up. But it is an extraordinary story. But it does, in some ways, explain his subsequent behavior, you know, his inability to sustain relationships, and, you know, this constant need for masseurs and sex workers and things. So I think it's...

01:04:03.740 Well, and not just in the course of his life, but in the course of his marriage, because

01:04:07.300 you also write, you know, he married Fergie, and you have it from their former driver,

01:04:13.100 that he had slept with more than a dozen women before their first anniversary.

01:04:18.140 I mean, is there, what is it like in these royal marriages?

01:04:20.700 Is there any real covenant of fidelity, or, like, is this an Andrew thing, or is this

01:04:26.040 a royal thing?

01:04:27.340 Well, I think it's a royal narrow-socratic thing.

01:04:29.360 I mean, we know from Sarah's own father that she was sort of, I mean, there was a physical attraction to start with, but they kind of quickly moved off in their different directions.

01:04:38.740 They both had had pretty racy lives as Bachelor and Spinster.

01:04:43.460 There was a lot of pressure on both of them to settle down.

01:04:47.180 And, I mean, as I say, her father had admitted that she was more in love with the royal family than she was with Andrew.

01:04:54.580 And he was away very quickly.

01:04:56.400 I mean, away for long periods, either on naval bases or on ships.

01:05:00.240 And she felt very lonely.

01:05:01.860 She was stuck in this gloomy Buckingham Palace with very little support.

01:05:07.720 And I'm afraid things began to happen on both sides.

01:05:13.060 Yeah, so she also doesn't come off well in this book at all. 0.97

01:05:19.040 I mean, she was a spendthrift. 1.00

01:05:21.000 She couldn't spend enough of the British taxpayers' money. 1.00

01:05:24.000 she seems to be a glutton. That's what I took away from the book, that she's a glutton for 1.00

01:05:29.440 food, for alcohol, for cigarettes, for sexual partners. She lied about her relationship with 1.00

01:05:36.260 Epstein, the book suggests, maintaining a very close friendship with him long after she claimed

01:05:41.580 it was over, post his guilty plea on that charge we discussed. What do you make of her after having

01:05:49.200 studied and researched her for so long? Well, I think she's a very sort of Jekyll and Hyde

01:05:52.800 character. And there are a lot of very good qualities. She's loyal. She's generous. She

01:05:57.840 can be very kind. She has this great ability, empathy with disadvantaged children. And she

01:06:04.220 was seen as a breath of fresh air, sort of Meghan Markle character. She'd had her own

01:06:08.320 career. She'd lived with someone before she got married. And it started off well. She 0.84

01:06:13.440 was a popular member of the royal family. But quite quickly, she was seen to be taking 0.98

01:06:18.580 advantage of her position. She was selling stories to the papers and photographs of her family.

01:06:24.260 Sarah Ferguson we're talking about now.

01:06:26.400 This is Sarah Ferguson.

01:06:27.380 Not Markle.

01:06:28.060 Yeah.

01:06:28.760 Yeah. 0.68

01:06:29.400 And, well, I mean, Meghan Markle, I think, has tried to model herself in many ways in Sarah 0.95

01:06:33.280 Ferguson. And unfortunately, there was very little control. And I think she realized she'd 0.91

01:06:40.420 gotten to the sweetie shop and she could take advantage. But I think she started off with a

01:06:44.020 genuine wish to to do good i mean she has done a lot of good work with various charities but the

01:06:49.440 problem is the she gets confused between the the the lines you need to to leave between charitable

01:06:55.840 work and financial interests social ambitions laundering your reputation etc uh and well what

01:07:02.480 does she come from because when i when i read your stories about for sarah ferguson andrew's wife

01:07:06.920 at the time they're divorced now but i thought this is a girl who like she she is now a royal

01:07:13.240 and she is going to exploit it for everything it's worth. 0.55

01:07:17.180 I mean, you write that at night she would down a handful of sizable vodkas, 0.95

01:07:24.880 then take to the wine. 1.00

01:07:25.940 Her cigarette butts littered the house despite her desperate attempts to give up.

01:07:30.620 That she was putting on weight and depressed.

01:07:33.040 That she was seen wandering aimlessly around without makeup.

01:07:37.800 Her eyes were tired.

01:07:39.160 It looked like her soul was gone.

01:07:40.780 She was no longer quite in control.

01:07:42.180 that it shed light on her life at Sunning Hill,

01:07:48.000 where they lived, I guess,

01:07:48.860 where each evening staff would prepare 0.97

01:07:52.360 up to 10 different types of pasta for her.

01:07:54.940 Because weighed down with the cares of coping with royal life,

01:07:57.660 she could never make up her mind what she wanted to eat.

01:07:59.520 Her bills for food alone had escalated to 40,000 pounds a year.

01:08:03.500 Based on the interviews with staff members, 1.00

01:08:04.900 her foibles included demanding that all her knickers, 1.00

01:08:07.640 bras, and tights be ironed, 1.00

01:08:09.620 Not to mention when she sat down for breakfast in the morning, she wanted fresh squeezed orange juice and the oranges had to be squeezed just as she sat down. 1.00

01:08:18.700 She had a staff of 17, which I'll list in a minute.

01:08:21.940 But I mean, she was leaning in to the royal life, Andrew.

01:08:26.860 Yes, exactly.

01:08:27.680 No, she loved it.

01:08:28.800 I mean, you know, as I say, it was like going to the sweetie shop and she, you know, she's very extravagant.

01:08:34.940 She can't decide. 1.00

01:08:35.760 Someone described her as greedy and needy. 0.99

01:08:38.300 And I think that does sum her up.

01:08:41.900 That's not a good combo.

01:08:43.300 No, it's a very dangerous combo, she discovered.

01:08:46.600 And I think that was a problem.

01:08:48.140 And there was no one there to give her any direction.

01:08:50.980 I mean, her mother had gone away when she was 13 with an Argentinian polo player.

01:08:56.460 Her husband was away.

01:08:57.680 Her sister lived in Australia.

01:08:59.820 And the palace kind of washed their hands a bit of her.

01:09:03.040 And she just was this, she always had low self-esteem.

01:09:06.760 She had problems with her weight. She was taking lots of diet pills, which affected her moods.

01:09:14.300 And, you know, she was a mess. And she's not an intelligent person.

01:09:19.760 She was drawn to psychics. I think she's talking to three or four different psychics a day.

01:09:24.820 And she kind of lost direction in her life.

01:09:27.980 I mean, there is a side to her where she can sort of pick herself up when she falls right to the bottom.

01:09:32.180 And through just sheer perseverance and hard work and self-discipline, which is not a word you normally associate with her, she can do amazing things.

01:09:40.020 She was a great advert for Weight Watchers in the States, later for Wedgwood China.

01:09:45.400 And a lot of companies were very happy to pay a large sums of money to act as a brand ambassador.

01:09:51.500 So, but you also point out on the excesses.

01:09:55.080 And she employed this staff of 17, including a cook, driver, maid, butler, dresser, nanny, three secretaries, a personal assistant, a lady in waiting, accountant, accountant's assistant, two gardeners, flower arranger and dog walker.

01:10:08.020 An accountant brought in to cut cost as one member of the staff what he did and received the reply. 0.99

01:10:12.780 I pick up the dog shit. And you, he asked, pointing to the person beside him. 0.99

01:10:16.860 I help him. In the meantime, you report that she treated the staff infamously poorly, that she had tantrums, that there was high staff turnover. 0.78

01:10:28.980 She was screaming at employees. She would she would regularly reduce the staff to wrecks. 0.99

01:10:34.420 And then she'd wonder why they were so unhappy. And on top of that, you reported that on the charities,

01:10:42.060 You give her credit for the charities that she started. But you point out that when she was asked by some to go help with other charities, instead of saying, sure, I'll be there and I'll foot the bill, she would go and she would ask for two expensive suites and she would want a plane ticket, even though the place is only two hours away.

01:11:02.880 And she'd want to bring staff. I mean, like she was exploiting, you know, when usually when a charity asks you to come, it's OK to get a speaking fee, but you try to keep all your expenses down to a minimum or, you know, like you foot them yourself.

01:11:15.560 This was not her approach. So she seems to be abusive, insecure, somewhat gluttonous and not that generous a person.

01:11:25.900 No, I think that's the cynical nature of her, that she used charities to, as I say, enhance her social ambitions, to meet stars, but also to kind of launder her reputation.

01:11:36.460 I mean, the charities that she, indeed, Andrew and the children supported were for Traffic Woman.

01:11:41.760 And yet of all the people, they seem to be most disdainful of them.

01:11:46.960 They were very happy to mix with predators like Peter Nygaard and Jeffrey Epstein and P. Diddy and others.

01:11:54.900 But yeah, it's an extraordinary behaviour. And the repeated stories of her insisting on security, cost of security, hairdressers, when she did these social events. And often I approached the charities and asked, you know, she claims she's raised so much money, actually, how much did she raise? And they'd say, well, actually, we raised nothing, because it was all eaten up in expenses.

01:12:17.620 and several times you know people had to like the case you quote put their own hands in their pocket

01:12:23.960 just to cover the expenses because they didn't feel they could charge the charities

01:12:27.340 just a very cynical use of charities there's a story which is breaking now about one of her

01:12:32.840 boyfriends who earned quite a lot of money from government grants to develop an app which never

01:12:37.440 happened and they set up a charity on the side which never actually did any charitable work

01:12:42.200 has now been investigated by the charities commission her daughter's charity the anti-slavery

01:12:46.260 collective is being investigated by the charities commission because it raised large sums of money

01:12:50.700 which it didn't spend twice as much was spent on on staff costs as actual given in grants

01:12:55.940 and they kind of realized that they could exploit charities to um to to enhance their lifestyle

01:13:02.980 wow um i should point out that uh she issued a denial about your book calling it fabricated

01:13:12.700 nonsense. This was made directly actually in response to the published excerpts

01:13:16.740 alleging a past relationship between Sarah Ferguson

01:13:20.580 and P. Diddy, Sean Diddy Combs. You allege in the book that she had

01:13:24.660 an affair with him? Yes, it was her friends with benefit relationship. It went on for

01:13:28.640 many years. I did get something wrong. I thought they met in 2002, but in

01:13:32.660 fact, pictures have now emerged of her at his birthday party in 1998.

01:13:37.540 She liked rappers. I mean, they actually, she got rappers in to

01:13:40.420 performed at her children's birthday parties. She had these obsessions with particularly rich

01:13:46.240 and well-known people. She chased Tiger Woods, for example, across America, had a thing about

01:13:50.840 John F. Kennedy Jr., had a passion for Kevin Costner. And I think one of the things that she

01:13:58.840 claimed was she'd only met P. Diddy twice. Well, there's plenty of photographic evidence of them

01:14:03.200 meeting on numerous occasions. I understand stories are about to break in the press from

01:14:07.980 from other sources nothing to do with me uh with more detail of that relationship but my my source

01:14:13.180 is strong i'm standing up by it uh and um we know that p diddy was very keen to kind of get close to

01:14:20.380 the british royal family uh and it didn't surprise me people express surprise about this relationship

01:14:25.460 but it it fits in entirely with the way that she behaved towards financial backers and people who

01:14:32.320 were in the public eye like her she she liked bad boys and there's a whole history of getting 0.99

01:14:37.320 involved with men who were very unsuitable. This is a picture. Yeah, there's like there's bad boy

01:14:43.180 like he, you know, he skirts authority and drives a Harley and, you know, thumbs his middle finger

01:14:51.280 at people who cross him on the road. But then there's, you know, P. Diddy and Jeffrey Epstein

01:14:55.640 bad boy, which is a league of its own. And you allege in the book. And again, for listening

01:15:01.340 audience, the book is called Entitled the Rise and Fall of the House of York. You allege that

01:15:06.540 she exposed her daughters, the princesses, Eugenie and Beatrice, to P. Diddy. Can you explain that?

01:15:13.800 Well, the picture you've just shown is a picture of her second daughter, Eugenie, age 16, at one

01:15:18.160 of P. Diddy's yacht parties. Beatrice was taken, the older daughter, was taken to the launch of a

01:15:24.260 fragrance called Unforgivable, which was supposedly based on Sarah Ferguson. And Sarah Ferguson was

01:15:31.200 constantly, for example, sending pretty young girls, her goddaughters and people, to stay in

01:15:37.520 Epstein's flats on their own without any supervision. And she clearly didn't worry about

01:15:43.320 Epstein. The girls were taken as young girls to visit Peter Nygaard in the Bahamas. So the whole

01:15:48.860 series of people who were totally unsuitable for these girls to mix. I mean, one of the chief

01:15:54.240 guests at Beatrice's 18th century, sorry, 18th birthday party, which was an 18th century dress

01:15:59.840 ball was Harvey Weinstein, apart from Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. And if you look

01:16:05.320 at the wedding guests, for example, for Eugenie, which is held at St. George's Winter, huge security

01:16:10.480 cost for the British public. It can just consist of Chinese rapists, Libyan gunrunners, a whole 1.00

01:16:17.080 series of people who these people should not have been mixing with. How was any of this allowed? 0.98

01:16:24.140 You know, it's like, I don't know, you watch The Crown and it was like Queen Elizabeth's sister wasn't even allowed to marry the guy she wanted to marry because he was considered unsuitable.

01:16:36.140 Now you got these, flash forward to these two running around associating with Epstein and Weinstein and Diddy and Andrew with the 16-year-old blonde requests and the paid sex workers in these hotels, which appears to have been an open secret.

01:16:51.760 allegedly he denies it. How? How did we go from one to the other? Well, I think it was a reaction

01:16:58.080 to the fact that the Queen felt guilty about the way that Margaret had been treated. In fact,

01:17:02.520 Margaret could have married Peter Townsend. She chose not to because she would have lost her

01:17:06.600 title. And she'd kind of gone off him in the period of separation. But I think the Queen

01:17:13.200 knew that there was very little accountability and transparency about these activities. There

01:17:17.940 was always going to be people who could cover it up. I talked to a protection officer for the royal

01:17:22.520 family, in fact, the other night, and he said that they would alter the logs of things that they did

01:17:27.800 in order to kind of cover up their tracks. So people like Sarah Ferguson and Andrew knew they

01:17:35.020 would never be caught, they'd never have to be held accountable for any of this, and they could

01:17:39.460 behave exactly as they wanted, and that's what they did. And that's been the story up till now,

01:17:44.920 that these people have felt invincible because they were protected.

01:17:50.240 And the Queen didn't want to know, and so people kept quiet.

01:17:54.660 We've seen this time and time again.

01:17:56.040 She would push her son for jobs like being a trade envoy,

01:17:59.700 and though people had reservations, they basically, you know,

01:18:03.100 tugged their forelock and said, of course.

01:18:05.920 Being a trade envoy is what led to Andrew getting arrested a couple of months ago,

01:18:11.200 which we'll talk about in a minute.

01:18:12.100 I should point out that several outlets, News Nation, people, the New York Post, all reached out to Andrew and his office for comment.

01:18:19.820 What they got back was Buckingham Palace did not return emails for comment, that the Duke of York did not respond giving a comment, that Buckingham Palace no longer comments on matters involving Andrew, and that a rep for Andrew also did not respond for comment.

01:18:32.640 So clearly he's not going to comment on this, and neither is the palace, though I'm just going to guess that he's denying the most salacious allegations.

01:18:39.880 To be fair, he's not responded to any of the allegations going back over 25 years. I mean, even when he was a working royal, there are a whole series of stories about unexplained monies in his bank account and behavior and taking commissions for introducing foreign businesses into Kazakhstan.

01:18:57.340 And whenever these questions were raised with him by the police, there was nothing. Occasionally, Buckingham Palace would deny them. And if the press wanted to pursue them, they then found they had legal letters.

01:19:08.740 And I suppose the most famous case is Amy Roback at ABC Television, who wanted to run a program on Virginia Giffray and Andrew years before the story broke.

01:19:18.600 And the palace's response was to say, well, if you want access to William and Catherine in future, you should back off.

01:19:26.180 And they backed off.

01:19:27.620 And of course, Epstein and Andrew went on to abuse girls after that.

01:19:33.720 I'm not going to lie.

01:19:34.840 I got a couple of chuckles out of the book, like the following.

01:19:38.100 Another acquaintance tells the story of Andrew at a wedding asking a woman he had not met before for a dance. 0.98

01:19:44.060 When she declined, he responded, I suppose a blowjob is out of the question then. 0.99

01:19:50.120 That's my very poor British accent. 0.99

01:19:53.460 But I laughed.

01:19:54.960 I'm not going to lie.

01:19:55.580 He is irreverent and kind of cheeky in a way that could be taken as humor as opposed to offensive.

01:20:03.620 Yeah, well, I think that was the feeling.

01:20:05.300 You know, he was Randy Andy.

01:20:06.360 He was a bit of a cheeky chappie.

01:20:08.100 There's a famous interview with a presenter called, I've got my name now, but anyway, a well-known presenter.

01:20:17.060 And there's a sort of clearly a rapport there.

01:20:19.480 And you can see that he could be very charming. 0.99

01:20:23.260 His other great chat up line with dancing with a girl was to say, how does it feel like to have a royal cock up against your thigh? 1.00

01:20:30.920 Oh, my God. 0.99

01:20:33.100 And maybe, you know, one time it works.

01:20:36.080 i i suspect no more than that i mean the thing is as you say there were plenty of women who

01:20:41.680 prepared to throw themselves at him he didn't need to try too hard in fact it wasn't just the

01:20:45.460 woman it was their mums as well so when the uh the ships docked in in foreign ports you know

01:20:51.100 they had to fight them off and this gave him a very exalted sense of his own importance and his

01:20:56.080 own uh in sense uh attractions um because you know for for models and actresses it didn't do

01:21:03.040 your career any harm to be associated with him uh and you know there was certain curiosity

01:21:08.360 uh and he took advantage of that uh and that was sure i did uh fine um and you know there are

01:21:15.600 plenty of well-known people i couldn't write about uh who who've had relations with him

01:21:20.640 uh i mean there were some things i had to leave out for the lawyer so it's uh it could be a lot

01:21:26.340 worse smart you write about how one former staff member told you the story that he had a reputation

01:21:32.380 among his own staff of being creepy.

01:21:35.140 One nanny left because he made unwelcome advances.

01:21:38.100 And then you cite Emma Grunbaum,

01:21:41.140 a 34-year-old masseuse from the Wentworth Club

01:21:43.420 who was often booked by Andrew for massages at Royal Lodge.

01:21:46.460 I mean, that's got Epstein vibes written all over it.

01:21:48.320 This is Epstein's thing, of course,

01:21:49.580 the massage with the so-called happy ending.

01:21:52.280 It's always felt a bit sleazy and a bit odd, really, she said.

01:21:56.080 I felt he wanted more.

01:21:57.320 It was very clear, end quote.

01:21:59.040 The Duke insisted on being naked

01:22:00.960 and despite her objections the massage taking place in his bedroom he would try and hug her

01:22:06.360 ask her to stay and watch a film ask her about her sex life oh not even subtle by the way on 0.99

01:22:11.840 one occasion while she adjusted the massage table you're right he remarked hey nice arse do you want 0.99

01:22:17.440 to take it up the arse my god like this is like this is a prince this is like what did emma tell 0.98

01:22:25.760 her reaction to this was? Well, shocked because she's a serious sort of masseur at the Wentworth 0.98

01:22:31.640 Club. But there were lots and lots of these masseur stories. I mean, he would actually swap

01:22:36.460 notes about masseurs with President Trump. And they would discuss, according to one diplomat,

01:22:42.580 pussy together. That was their bond, a bit of golf, a bit of money. But I mean, plenty of stories of 1.00

01:22:48.980 masseurs brought. He liked what's called double-handed massages, where there were two women

01:22:53.560 involved. And even at Royal Lodge in recent times, he would have two women brought to him every

01:22:59.580 Sunday afternoon for massages to the sound of country music. That was his thing. But I talked

01:23:06.520 to one of his drivers. American country music. You're not talking about like English countryside.

01:23:11.260 No, no, no. He liked American country music. So maybe, you know, one should try it sometime.

01:23:18.000 Save a horse, ride a cowboy. I'm trying to think of what his favorite might be.

01:23:22.320 Well, he was very...

01:23:23.780 At Royal Lodge, that's where he stayed, on Royal Palace grounds?

01:23:28.460 Yes, this was on Royal Lodge, which was, you know, in a sense, crown property, which he had as a very, very attractive rent.

01:23:34.860 I mean, it wasn't offered as it should have been.

01:23:37.700 He basically said that he would bring it up to renovate it, and that cost him about £7 million.

01:23:45.640 But in return, he didn't pay rent.

01:23:47.900 He had it for about 80 years.

01:23:49.420 It was a pretty good deal.

01:23:50.960 And that should have been offered more widely.

01:23:53.120 You know, it should have been a commercial undertaking.

01:23:56.020 And this is one of the concerns. 0.66

01:23:57.440 You know, his daughters don't have royal duties, but they live in subsidized accommodation

01:24:01.620 in royal palaces, even though they've got homes elsewhere.

01:24:05.280 And this is why people are beginning...

01:24:06.840 Why?

01:24:07.220 It's time.

01:24:08.180 Get out.

01:24:08.660 Get a job.

01:24:09.380 Aren't they in their 30s at this point?

01:24:10.800 Like, why do the British taxpayers have to pay for their lives?

01:24:13.700 Well, that's the question that's now being asked.

01:24:15.580 But because there's so little scrutiny and people have such deference towards the royals, these questions haven't been asked until now.

01:24:23.300 I mean, what I would say is, you know, my book in August and Loosen the Earth.

01:24:28.320 Then we had Geoffrey's own book, which kind of humanised this scandal.

01:24:32.260 And then we've had, of course, the Epstein files.

01:24:34.400 And that's just all created the snowball effect that, you know, people now feel that, you know, it isn't about public duty.

01:24:41.080 It's about personal profit and pleasure.

01:24:42.900 and there needs to be proper scrutiny and accountability.

01:24:46.860 And if they are to retain respect and trust,

01:24:49.120 they have to start kind of improving their act.

01:24:53.900 Just to clarify that for the audience,

01:24:55.780 you released the book in August,

01:24:58.160 but you've updated it for the paperback

01:24:59.860 with a bunch of new reporting.

01:25:01.500 The book is called Entitled,

01:25:03.220 The Rise and Fall of the House of York.

01:25:05.660 There's plenty more,

01:25:06.440 including the relationships amongst the younger royals

01:25:10.300 once Harry got together with Meghan,

01:25:13.160 how Andrew reacted to that

01:25:15.080 and what Meghan was like inside those palace grounds.

01:25:19.200 We'll pick it up there right after this quick break

01:25:21.060 as Andrew Loney stays with us.

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01:28:41.540 She was very specific about that night.

01:28:44.760 She described dancing with you,

01:28:46.880 and you profusely sweating,

01:28:49.420 and that she went on to have baths.

01:28:52.220 There's a slight problem with the sweating, because I have a peculiar medical condition, which is that I don't sweat, or I didn't sweat at the time, and that was, oh, actually, yes, I didn't sweat at the time, because I had suffered what I would describe as an overdose of adrenaline in the Falklands War when I was shot at.

01:29:19.000 uh and i simply it was it was it was almost impossible for me to to sweat and it's only

01:29:26.540 because i have done a number of things in the recent past that i'm starting to be able to

01:29:32.300 do that again so i'm afraid to say that that that there's a medical condition that says that i didn't

01:29:37.220 do it these are such obvious lies it's so uncomfortable to watch but it's all tracking

01:29:46.000 with what we're going through today, which is a new book, new updated book by Andrew Loney called

01:29:52.520 Entitled, The Rise and Fall of the House of York. And Andrew Loney is with me still.

01:29:59.880 Yeah. So there he was talking about how he couldn't sweat and those were lies. What do we know about

01:30:07.800 the queen's knowledge about any of this? Right. Because I know you raised the question, you know,

01:30:13.280 I will re-evaluate the Queen because she doesn't sound like she was a good mother.

01:30:16.860 But there's a question about whether we should be re-evaluating the Queen because

01:30:19.880 she may have helped sweep some of this under the rug. Like, how much did she know about his antics?

01:30:26.340 Oh, I'm sure she knew everything. The head of royal security would have reported to her,

01:30:31.800 having done a book on the Duke of Windsor. I've kind of seen how it all worked.

01:30:36.160 And, you know, she had a lot of intelligence people inside her entourage. Her immediate

01:30:41.840 private secretary was an ex-intelligence officer, former head of MI5, our domestic

01:30:47.020 force, like at the FBI, was involved in her household. But I also know that people wrote

01:30:55.880 to, for example, her lawyers, pointing out all sorts of things. Heads of the Foreign Office,

01:31:01.220 former intelligence officers, all sorts of people went to her with complaints and were basically

01:31:05.440 sent away with a flea in their ear. At one point, Andrew was caught with $5 million in a suitcase

01:31:11.060 as a sort of bribe in Kazakhstan.

01:31:13.640 One Carlos of Spain was also paid off,

01:31:16.160 and that was taken to the Queen,

01:31:17.620 and she just didn't want to know.

01:31:20.100 And, you know, it was just one thing

01:31:23.500 that she couldn't really take on board.

01:31:27.600 And there was no one else who,

01:31:29.960 given her protection of Andrew,

01:31:31.440 there was nothing anyone else could do.

01:31:33.720 And time and time again, he ran to his mother.

01:31:36.040 He had her sort of round his little finger.

01:31:38.200 I mean, there's an extent to which

01:31:40.200 the end of her life when she was quite, you know, old and frail and confused and on drugs and ill,

01:31:46.580 that he kind of bullied her. He would go up there often for lunch and she was lonely. There were

01:31:50.860 very few people after Philip who came and saw her. And he was the one member of the family who had

01:31:56.840 time and he kind of cultivated her. But that had always been the case. So yeah, I think we do need

01:32:02.300 to reassess the Queen's reputation. She's not quite as pure at Driven Snow as everyone thought.

01:32:06.620 Yeah, I mean, it's tough because it's your child and most of us would do anything for our children.

01:32:12.400 But this is an adult child and it's the British taxpayer.

01:32:16.020 And there are real questions about his behavior there.

01:32:18.180 That's why he's he's been arrested for this.

01:32:21.840 His behavior, none of this is really what's at issue, although they are now investigating some some situation with the woman.

01:32:28.600 It's actually kind of interesting to me, but he was indicted because as trade envoy, he allegedly passed reports of official visits to countries other than his own, to Singapore, to Vietnam.

01:32:41.920 And the suggestion is that he shared stuff he shouldn't have shared with people in other countries, and they're investigating that right now.

01:32:49.780 They do say that there's a second piece of this, that they are looking into a claim that a woman was brought to the UK to have sex with Andrew.

01:33:02.180 This is reported by the Daily Mail, and they said that the Thames Valley police confirmed this, that there's a wider probe into him, whether he brought a woman to the UK to have sex with him in her 20s.

01:33:13.260 Now, there's nothing wrong with bringing a woman to the UK to have sex with you, even if you're Prince Andrew, unless it's against her will or it's, you know, a paid situation.

01:33:22.260 You can argue it's sex trafficking that crosses country lines, which I guess is what they're looking into because they say she's in her 20s.

01:33:28.840 She was sent by Epstein to the UK to have sex with Andrew in 2010.

01:33:33.900 Again, that's also not illegal unless this was a sex trafficking situation.

01:33:38.520 One guy can send a gal as long as she's willing, and this isn't part of some sort of forced situation, which would potentially make it sex trafficking, to go have sex with his pal.

01:33:48.700 She's said to have spent the night with the then prince at Royal Lodge before later having tea and being given a tour of Buckingham Palace.

01:33:54.620 Well, great.

01:33:55.600 Detectives have spoken to lawyer Brad Edwards for the alleged victim, they say, who has not been identified.

01:34:01.400 Again, I don't know how she's a victim unless they've got proof this person was trafficked.

01:34:05.420 a woman of age who willingly goes to have sex with a prince is not a victim. So we'll see about

01:34:12.560 that one. But what do you make of this special envoy stuff and the likelihood of Andrew actually

01:34:17.700 going to jail if he gets convicted? Well, I mean, just dealing with the Brad Edwards

01:34:22.500 client, I mean, she has refused to actually make a formal complaint to the police. I think she's

01:34:29.380 worried about the publicity. So I don't think that's going to go anywhere as a story. But

01:34:33.420 Our former Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, has delineated a whole series of women who were trafficked into Britain illegally, underage, and against their will.

01:34:43.900 This woman was in her 20s.

01:34:45.660 This woman was in her 20s.

01:34:46.760 I think we discard that story.

01:34:48.600 But there were other women, and that, I think, is what the police are looking at.

01:34:51.900 They're trying to bring charges of sex trafficking because they feel the misconduct in the public office won't hold.

01:34:58.660 The gloves are off for him now.

01:35:00.280 Sorry? The gloves are off.

01:35:01.360 Yes, absolutely.

01:35:01.920 I think that, you know, the Thames Valley police seem to be taking this seriously.

01:35:05.620 I mean, they've called out a woman to come forward.

01:35:08.060 I think they're struggling to find people who are prepared to give testimony.

01:35:11.640 It's always the case with these sort of cases.

01:35:15.640 But we have plenty of evidence of him as a trade envoy giving away confidential secrets,

01:35:20.520 either diplomatic or commercial.

01:35:23.320 I mean, they're in the email correspondence.

01:35:25.960 So literally within minutes of receiving emails,

01:35:28.980 he would be passing them on to either business associates like David Rowlands or Jeffrey Z. Epstein,

01:35:33.720 people who were actually paying off his or his ex-wife's debts. And this is a breach of the

01:35:38.900 official secret. But there is a question about whether he was doing that to seek investment.

01:35:42.500 I mean, Jeffrey Epstein was at the time believed to be this storied investor and whether he did it

01:35:47.420 to, you know, get good guidance for the UK on what to do about this move or the other. I mean,

01:35:52.260 he's got a potential defense there. No, I don't think he has a defense. I mean,

01:35:56.340 For example, he was leaking commercially sensitive information about the Royal Bank of Scotland, which had been taken into public ownership during the banking crisis in 2008.

01:36:05.360 And he was sharing that information with people who were trying to buy off some of the assets, David Rowlands.

01:36:11.580 With the Atlantic banking crisis, he was sharing confidential information he had actually requested specifically from the Treasury and passing it to the Rowlands who were buying up an Atlantic bank.

01:36:23.440 because this is commercially sensitive information.

01:36:25.940 So it's not about developing anything.

01:36:27.640 That's not great.

01:36:28.500 And we had hundreds of British troops killed in Helmand province in Afghanistan

01:36:32.820 working against the Taliban, and he saw that as a business opportunity

01:36:36.880 and wanted to cut out the action, which doesn't look very good.

01:36:40.720 So I think there are plenty of occasions where he was sharing information

01:36:44.380 that was privileged information that should not be shared with anyone else

01:36:47.920 with people who were not British citizens

01:36:50.820 and were not authorized to see this information.

01:36:52.940 That is a breach.

01:36:54.020 Well, would this be a judge or a jury trial?

01:36:56.280 Sorry?

01:36:56.600 And do you think a British jury would actually potentially convict Andrew and send him to jail?

01:37:01.760 Well, I think he would be in trouble if it was a jury trial.

01:37:04.220 But you're absolutely right.

01:37:05.160 I don't think this will lead to charges being brought.

01:37:08.160 The last thing the Royal Family want is a dirty linen washed in public.

01:37:11.800 They've managed to shut down the Paul Burrell trial in 2002 for that reason.

01:37:16.680 And I think we're already getting the mood music to prepare us that there isn't a case

01:37:21.640 under misconduct in public office, he wouldn't get a fair trial, he wasn't a proper public servant,

01:37:27.940 he was just a member of the royal family kind of pushed into this job, he wasn't paid. So I think

01:37:34.780 it's going to be quite difficult on those grounds to bring a case, though I have interviewed lawyers

01:37:40.020 and policemen involved in these cases who say it's pretty clear if officials have acted against

01:37:45.500 the interests of the public who held public positions, which he did, then there would be

01:37:51.460 a case here uh but the story is widening i think the police are looking for any way that they can

01:37:56.680 perhaps get them and if they can find people to come forward and give testimony about uh being

01:38:02.480 underage or being trafficked to him uh i mean we have plenty of evidence that there were these

01:38:07.480 books of photographs most of them naked of girls uh who were uh basically ordered by these men

01:38:14.020 including andrew uh and sent you know like ordering a pizza uh but you know from epstein

01:38:20.360 And Ghislaine, you're saying, who have the catalogue of women? 1.00

01:38:23.280 These books and others were producing them. And that's how it worked. But I think Gordon Brown's intervention is good. He's got a sister-in-law who's an investigative journalist, and she's produced a lot of new information about these women who were brought.

01:38:38.400 Problem is they were anonymous. They weren't registered in the flight logs. We don't know who they are. They now may have returned to their countries and not know about this.

01:38:47.880 They may now be a respectable married woman with children and not want to go through the publicity of going public.

01:38:54.580 So there are a lot of fences to jump before, I suppose, charges can be brought.

01:39:00.420 But I just cannot see this being allowed to happen.

01:39:05.580 Well, clearly, there is no love lost between King Charles and his brother, Andrew.

01:39:10.420 And I think you make that clear as well, that those two, they're not particularly close and Charles is not protecting Andrew.

01:39:17.880 at least at this point. And you write in the book that Andrew really didn't get along with

01:39:22.400 many people. He didn't. He loved his mother, or at least she loved him. But he didn't get along

01:39:29.140 with Harry. He doesn't get along with William. And of all the things that he's said and done,

01:39:34.980 as documented by this book, I have to give him the warning that he gave Harry when he got together

01:39:41.900 with Meghan. He was not in favor of it, and he saw disaster written all over it.

01:39:46.120 Yes. I mean, you know, I think they all saw this. When I was writing my book on the Mountbatons in 2016, all the gossip in the royal household was about how unsuitable Meghan was and it would all end in tears.

01:40:00.140 And clearly, Andrew was one of the people who was saying that. I mean, so was William.

01:40:05.420 Everyone could see this was a disaster waiting to happen.

01:40:08.580 But I think Andrew was a little bit more vocal about it than some of the others.

01:40:11.980 And that upset Harry. There were fisticuffs. Both of them have resorted to their fists on numerous occasions. There's a story which actually has come out in Robert Hardman's book about the Queen, which actually I allude to in mind, of a fight with the head of the household, Tony Johnson Burt.

01:40:28.240 but yes there were fights with harry there were fights with um uh with with with others um uh

01:40:37.260 and because and and and william was was crossed with andrew because uh basically andrew didn't

01:40:44.340 think that kate was a suitable bride she wasn't posh enough uh and even as a child william found

01:40:50.120 a bit of a creep so there's no there's a huge personal animus there as well as that william's

01:40:55.320 concern about the reputational damage to the family when he's the guy who's got to pick up

01:40:58.880 the pieces uh in some ways the likelihood is that charles is just going to pass the baton on to

01:41:03.920 william and let him solve the problem in the way the queen has done it with charles yeah you write

01:41:09.560 that um not a great relationship with william he resents that andrew was rude about kate and

01:41:15.440 william has long worked behind the scenes to evict his uncle andrew from royal lodge william

01:41:21.040 refers to Andy as a tosser, perhaps not as bad as the vile names his brother Harry uses. Harry

01:41:25.680 has refers to Andy as a poof-da, an arsehole, and a twit. And then you say that, yeah, he told 1.00

01:41:33.900 Harry that this marriage is not going to last more than a month. When he got together with Meghan,

01:41:37.600 he accused him of going bonkers and not doing any due diligence on her past. And Harry later told

01:41:43.720 William, you write, that he was planning to kill his uncle Andrew. He hated him that much. Prince

01:41:49.680 Harry denies that these events occurred. So what do you know about the status, if anything,

01:41:56.420 since you're a royal biographer, of the Harry and Meghan pair out in Montecito? And is there

01:42:01.800 any hope of them going back to be your problem instead of ours? Well, I mean, I can't really

01:42:06.540 comment because I've focused as a historian on the story of Andrew and Sarah Ferguson. So I can only

01:42:12.280 go from what I've kind of read. But I think the feeling generally in Britain is the marriage

01:42:17.300 isn't going to last uh harry will i'm afraid still remain with you because his children are there

01:42:23.240 and actually that is exactly what wallace simpson did with with the edward the eighth she kind of

01:42:28.660 got him away from his friends and his relations into another country and she could control him

01:42:33.380 then they didn't have children at least but he was kind of stuck with her and i think that's that

01:42:38.560 seems to be the the feeling here with with harry he he wants to build some bridges i think his father

01:42:44.280 is keen to reignite with him to see his grandchildren. William clearly is against it.

01:42:49.940 The king is caught between the two brothers, and whatever he does, he's going to upset one of them.

01:42:57.080 And it's a bit of a mess. What happened with the Duke of Windsor is he did every so often come back

01:43:02.220 and see his family, as long as his wife didn't come with him, and that we're going to see more

01:43:05.800 of that. We have a sign that Harry may be able to come back and have security paid for by the

01:43:12.140 taxpayer here, which will make him feel safer. But it's interesting that when there have been

01:43:17.760 occasions where the king could have met Harry, I mean, not least in his recent visit to the States,

01:43:22.840 that that didn't happen. And I think there's always a suspicion that Harry will leak

01:43:26.940 any encounter they have, and the story will be sold to the newspapers. So it is a bit of a mess.

01:43:35.240 No one wants a dysfunctional family like that. But I'm afraid that is the story of the royal family.

01:43:39.460 They can't seem to get on with each other.

01:43:43.240 Well, the similarities you point out between Meghan Markle and, yes, Wallace Simpson, but also Sarah Ferguson are pretty stark.

01:43:51.080 And the story, this actually just broke from Rob Shooter, who we love.

01:43:54.640 He goes on the nerve with Maureen all the time.

01:43:56.320 And he, this is his exclusive, that Fergie was in talks with two NBC executives to do a daytime talk show in America.

01:44:06.300 They flew over there to meet with her and talk to her about it in London.

01:44:10.440 The next thing they knew, she had left the NBC executives alone with her daughters Beatrice and Eugenie and vanished for nearly two days.

01:44:19.260 And they found themselves acting like royal babysitters, eventually peaced out of the UK and said, yeah, this is not for us.

01:44:27.920 So lots of similarities there when it comes to work ethic and being an alleged grifter.

01:44:33.040 Everyone check out the book.

01:44:34.160 Thank you so much, Andrew, for coming on and give us so much time.

01:44:36.460 Andrew Loney and the book is entitled The Rise and Fall of the House of York.

01:44:40.640 All the best to you and good luck.

01:44:42.660 Thanks very much.

01:44:43.540 Thank you so much and good luck to all of you until I speak with you tomorrow where we have a special program for you coming.

01:44:51.760 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:44:53.640 No BS, no agenda and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 27, 2026

Ken Paxton Dominates Cornyn Ahead of Race Against RADICAL Talarico, with Tom Bevan, and SHOCK Prince Andrew Stories ｜ Ep. 1326

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