The Megyn Kelly Show - Kohberger Claims Harassment, Aniston Whines About Fame, and Trump's Massive Legal Victory, with Maureen Callahan, Holloway, Chamberlain

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00:00:30.600 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.540 Live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:00:42.260 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:44.080 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.840 Wow.

00:00:47.020 Another day, another massive legal win for Donald Trump

00:00:50.760 in his fight against years of unfair, absurd,

00:00:56.720 targeted lawfare against him.

00:00:58.560 This one is a stunner.

00:01:00.520 Let me tell you a story, okay?

00:01:02.140 It was August of 2023.

00:01:07.920 And, or maybe it was July.

00:01:10.320 And I saw Trump at a turning point event.

00:01:13.600 This is before we kind of like, I don't know.

00:01:18.040 We'd made up years ago, but this one we had the first like real glad hand

00:01:22.480 and chance to see each other.

00:01:23.840 And it was a very nice exchange.

00:01:25.080 And I spoke with his team behind the scenes.

00:01:27.460 And we talked about the lawfare that he was facing.

00:01:30.080 And the team made clear to me,

00:01:31.960 of all the criminal trials that he was facing,

00:01:35.700 the thing that really had Trump stressed because it was so unfair

00:01:40.980 and threatened his business to its core was this ridiculous possible indictment

00:01:48.120 by Letitia James, not indictment, but civil suit that threatened to bankrupt him.

00:01:53.360 And indeed, she got a hard partisan judge.

00:01:56.760 She's a hard partisan, the New York state attorney general,

00:01:59.420 who ran for office promising to, quote, get Trump. 0.83

00:02:03.060 And then she got a hard partisan judge, this lunatic judge anger on. 0.79

00:02:07.500 And it was a judge trial.

00:02:09.700 He had no right to a jury on it.

00:02:11.620 And it didn't go his way.

00:02:13.180 So this one was very important to Donald Trump.

00:02:18.160 And not surprisingly, this hard partisan judge threw the book at him

00:02:22.080 and entered a nearly $500 million judgment against him.

00:02:28.380 It is now over $500 million with the interest that's accrued.

00:02:34.360 And today it was thrown out.

00:02:38.380 It's amazing.

00:02:39.580 He's had to live under this for years now, not just Donald Trump,

00:02:44.620 but Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump, both of whom have been pulled into this

00:02:49.920 and harassed by this rabid partisan posing as an objective attorney general.

00:02:57.040 It's not so fun now, is it, Tish, now that you're on the receiving end of lawfare?

00:03:02.900 Unlike Trump, however, you actually appear to have broken the law.

00:03:06.220 Yeah, you deny it.

00:03:07.100 Well, you'll get your day in court, too.

00:03:08.700 We'll see how that plays out.

00:03:11.260 She's lost completely.

00:03:13.760 They've left in place some minor injunctive relief against the Trump organization.

00:03:19.680 None of it's really going to matter that much because, let's face it,

00:03:22.920 the Trumps are busy doing something else for the next couple of years.

00:03:25.880 And the injunctive relief that she entered against, let's say, like the Suns,

00:03:29.440 was basically like, you can't run this business for the next two years.

00:03:32.140 I think they'll be fine.

00:03:33.280 They actually have some other things they can do.

00:03:34.720 But this was a resounding victory for Donald Trump.

00:03:39.540 The entire monetary judgment has been vacated.

00:03:43.340 It's been wiped out.

00:03:44.600 This is a court of Democrats.

00:03:46.680 There is only one Republican-appointed judge.

00:03:50.400 And Republican in New York parlance basically means like a late-day Mitt Romney type.

00:03:56.640 So for Trump to get the support of this full court is really shocking.

00:04:03.240 The court's presiding judge writing that the penalty is, quote,

00:04:06.040 an excessive fine that violates the Eighth Amendment of the United States Constitution,

00:04:11.400 which is the amendment that prohibits cruel and unusual punishments.

00:04:14.460 Two other judges writing that there should be a new trial entirely.

00:04:19.060 Another saying the whole case should never have been allowed.

00:04:23.680 And Tish James should not have been, should not have brought this to begin with.

00:04:28.440 She's notoriously anti-Trump, completely unethically. 0.90

00:04:32.080 She ran for attorney general on the promise that she would get Donald Trump. 0.64

00:04:36.740 She salivated thereafter at the prospect of seizing his buildings throughout New York.

00:04:42.100 Guess what, Tish?

00:04:44.040 It's not going to happen now.

00:04:46.160 There is zero chance the New York State Court of Appeals,

00:04:49.380 which is the highest court in New York State,

00:04:51.040 is going to overturn this well-founded decision by the first department.

00:04:56.140 And so she's toast.

00:04:58.660 It's done. 1.00

00:04:59.240 We're officially awaiting her response to her massive kick in the ass. 0.99

00:05:04.700 We really look forward to that, and we'll bring it to you when we get it. 0.99

00:05:08.120 We haven't heard from the president yet either.

00:05:09.840 We heard from Eric Trump, which I'll get to in a second.

00:05:12.900 But joining me now to unpack all of this and what it means is Phil Holloway.

00:05:17.920 He's a contributor to MK True Crime.

00:05:20.600 That's our new True Crime podcast.

00:05:23.120 We launch it twice a week, and it's got all your Kelly's Court favorites, including Phil.

00:05:28.980 Go ahead and download that show right now.

00:05:30.680 Just search MK True Crime in the podcast search bar and on YouTube, too.

00:05:33.860 You can follow it.

00:05:34.840 You can get Phil and our other pals doing great legal analysis on all the hot legal cases.

00:05:39.040 They are going to have a lot with this one, along with Will Chamberlain, who's senior counsel at the Article 3 Project.

00:05:45.460 That's, of course, Mike Davis's organization, and they do great work.

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00:06:48.100 Guys, welcome back.

00:06:49.840 What a victory, Phil, for the sitting president.

00:06:54.480 Well, it is a victory.

00:06:56.280 And, you know, we've talked about this going on, I don't know, how many years now.

00:06:59.640 The lawfare that was waged against Donald Trump, which is all rooted in hard partisanship, as you pointed out.

00:07:06.640 You know, look, it's all crumbling, Megan, piece by piece by piece.

00:07:11.160 We saw, you know, Fannie Willis is booted off the RICO case, and now we have Tish James, and she's got her massive judgment, which really was the thing that she wanted, because this was effectively the death penalty, if it was enforced, perhaps against the Trump organization.

00:07:26.460 Interestingly enough, it was grounded in the Eighth Amendment, which we normally see in criminal cases.

00:07:33.820 It's not that often you see that in a civil case, because it prohibits cruel and unusual punishment.

00:07:39.980 And under the circumstances, a Democrat court of appeals says this is cruel and unusual.

00:07:46.380 It starts out with, of course, a case based on nothing.

00:07:51.040 The banks were not defrauded.

00:07:52.940 There were no actual injuries.

00:07:54.640 There were no money damages that were incurred by any party in this case.

00:07:59.700 This was pure partisan politics.

00:08:02.480 And the appeals court has said, look, you know, this just doesn't wash.

00:08:06.340 We don't do this.

00:08:07.380 We can't punish somebody in this way.

00:08:09.620 It doesn't fit the allegations.

00:08:11.840 And I do think, before all is said and done, that the appeals process will ultimately end this case in its entirety.

00:08:19.820 But for now, this was a huge victory, and I think it's going to last.

00:08:24.480 I mean, Will, this was such a cockamamie, convoluted civil case against him in the first place,

00:08:33.100 with a statute that had never been used like this, saying, well, you undervalued your assets when you filed your taxes,

00:08:44.780 and then you overvalued them when you wanted to get loans on favorable terms dealing with sophisticated banks.

00:08:53.780 And therefore, you're a fraudster.

00:08:55.840 Meanwhile, it's like everyone tries to undervalue their assets when they're dealing with the IRS.

00:09:01.140 And when trying to get a favorable loan with a bank, sure, you try to get the most favorable interpretation of what you own.

00:09:08.640 But he was dealing with Deutsche Bank.

00:09:11.660 He was not dealing with my imaginary viewer, Madge, who's in Iowa and works the farm all day

00:09:17.660 and does not go over spreadsheets and corporate disclosure statements.

00:09:23.340 Correct.

00:09:24.100 And that goes right to the intent to deceive, which is necessary in any fraud case.

00:09:28.520 Like, they're not trying to deceive Deutsche Bank.

00:09:31.320 They expect Deutsche Bank will go down, you know, their statements of financial condition

00:09:35.380 and be very, very careful and look very carefully at all their claims, all their attestations.

00:09:41.760 So it was a really preposterous case from the outset.

00:09:45.540 And I think, you know, we remember one of the obvious bizarre valuations was to suggest that Mar-a-Lago was worth something like $20 million. 0.53

00:09:54.100 And Tish James suggested that and said that all of Trump's claims that it was worth half a billion or more were ridiculous.

00:09:59.520 Well, no, actually, saying that if you've ever been to Mar-a-Lago or you're familiar with the geography of Palm Beach,

00:10:04.460 it's a massive property in one of the most expensive areas for real estate in the entire world.

00:10:11.120 It's a unique, totally unique property.

00:10:13.100 $20 million would be trivial to purchase it.

00:10:15.800 And yet, Tish James' entire theory of the case was that by saying it was worth $20 million when applying for a loan to Deutsche Bank,

00:10:22.620 that the Trump organization defrauded Deutsche Bank, an absurd claim on its face.

00:10:27.020 And Deutsche Bank didn't complain.

00:10:29.160 That was one of the ironies of this whole case, Phil, is that the banks actually came in and said,

00:10:33.640 no, absolutely no harm done.

00:10:35.040 We're good.

00:10:35.400 We're actually, he repaid the loans in full, paid the interest.

00:10:37.940 We're really pleased and we love being in business with him.

00:10:40.620 And still, Tish James was in there saying, a fraud has been committed.

00:10:46.320 The people of New York were defrauded.

00:10:48.960 She never adequately explained why, but she had something in her back pocket.

00:10:54.400 And that was an even more hard partisan judge, Engeron, who clearly wanted to be a Democratic star.

00:11:05.060 Yeah, Tish James knows something about mortgage fraud, but she knows about it maybe in a different context.

00:11:11.020 She, I think, defrauded the court when she made these crazy claims about the value of these properties. 1.00

00:11:19.000 At least in the business documents, which is standard, there's disclaimers saying, look, do your due diligence, Linder,

00:11:26.320 because, you know, we're doing this in good faith, but we want you to do your due diligence and not rely exclusively on our evaluations.

00:11:34.240 And that's how business is done.

00:11:36.520 And she completely ignored that.

00:11:38.360 She made false claims to the court about the actual value of things like Mar-a-Lago, as Will pointed out.

00:11:46.220 And so she should be disbarred.

00:11:48.960 This case should be thrown out.

00:11:51.300 She should be prohibited from ever bringing it back to life.

00:11:54.620 And, you know, look, I mean, we can talk about her own mortgage fraud problems if you want to,

00:12:00.020 but she really ought to be focusing on that and focusing less on this particular thing because she has actually committed mortgage fraud. 0.99

00:12:09.040 She has actually benefited financially by making false statements in mortgage loan applications.

00:12:14.920 Donald Trump wasn't saying that these are some kind of primary residence for which he should get lower interest rates.

00:12:20.540 She did that. 0.99

00:12:21.820 She needs to be the one held accountable.

00:12:23.640 The lawfare that was waged against Donald Trump was all rooted in partisanship, and that's the fundamental flaw in all of this,

00:12:33.680 and that's why we're seeing it crumble piece by piece.

00:12:36.580 Yes, those are the allegations against her.

00:12:38.800 She denies them.

00:12:40.160 We'll see whether she gets away with that or not because she's got a couple of legal problems on her hands with respect to her New York properties, 1.00

00:12:46.840 with respect to her property down south and the representations she made in order to get more favorable mortgage rates on her loans,

00:12:56.140 something she claims she's horrified by when Donald Trump is doing it.

00:13:00.500 When Donald Trump is applying for loans and allegedly misstates the value of the assets, she's horrified by it.

00:13:05.880 It's fraud.

00:13:06.540 He has to be punished that no one is above the law.

00:13:09.880 When Tish James allegedly does it, totally different story.

00:13:12.980 Now she's complaining about lawfare and retribution. 1.00

00:13:16.480 Okay, literally nobody feels sorry for you.

00:13:18.880 This was Tish James as she campaigned. 1.00

00:13:21.260 It was so inappropriate.

00:13:22.580 Hannity put together this montage.

00:13:23.860 We often show it.

00:13:24.600 It was perfectly done.

00:13:25.840 Sop 50.

00:13:27.980 I will never be afraid to challenge this illegitimate president when our fundamental rights are at stake.

00:13:34.320 I believe that the president of these United States can be indicted for criminal offenses.

00:13:39.140 Will you sue him for us?

00:13:40.460 Oh, we're going to definitely sue.

00:13:41.820 We're going to be a real shame.

00:13:42.980 He said, I know my name personally.

00:13:45.140 That man in the White House.

00:13:50.740 Who can't go a day without threatening our fundamental rights.

00:13:55.760 Yes, we need to focus on Donald Trump and his abuses.

00:13:58.720 We need to follow his money.

00:14:00.880 We need to find out where he's laundered money.

00:14:03.680 We need to find out whether or not he's engaged in conspiracy.

00:14:06.620 It's important that everyone understand that the days of Donald Trump are coming to an end.

00:14:10.120 I look forward to going into the office of attorney general every day, suing him, defending your rights, and then going home.

00:14:19.720 So inappropriate, Will.

00:14:22.660 I mean, it's amazing that one, you couldn't hear it as well in that montage, but her next to the civilian who said, please sue him for us.

00:14:28.600 Oh, I'm going to sue him.

00:14:30.200 He's going to know my name personally.

00:14:32.600 Well, how do you like that now, Tish?

00:14:34.220 How does it feel to have the president of the United States knowing your name personally and just lifting up the hood a little to see whether you really feel about alleged fraud on banks the way you claimed when you sued him?

00:14:48.240 Yeah, she's getting turned about, and she's going to get turned about in about the harshest way imaginable.

00:14:55.100 And I think it's really important that she be made an example of what you've shown that series of clips is just appalling from any prosecutor under any circumstances to run for office on the promise of prosecuting an individual without any explanation of the criminal conduct at issue or the people who have been victimized.

00:15:12.540 It's just saying you're going to use the law to go after someone, you know, I hear a lot of carping and complaining about Democrats from Democrats rather about the DOJ engaging in lawfare and persecution.

00:15:23.380 And sometimes you hear some more weaker Republicans saying, oh, you're going to open Pandora's box.

00:15:28.780 And I think the rest of us are just staring at the Pandora's box that's been opened for a decade targeting President Trump and are wondering when people are going to realize what's going on.

00:15:37.300 Exactly.

00:15:37.880 We've been in Pandora's box for years now.

00:15:40.340 Welcome to the party.

00:15:41.260 It was clear to court watchers like us that this was how this case was going to come out.

00:15:47.940 Anybody who watched the argument before the first department saw that this panel of judges was not sympathetic to Tish James, we've got a montage of questions.

00:15:58.060 This is not Tish James arguing here.

00:15:59.880 It's her deputy, Judith Vale.

00:16:02.020 And as soon as she got up to the lectern, she had a hot bench, lots of questions.

00:16:06.800 And none of them was particularly favorable toward her and Tish James's position.

00:16:12.460 You're going to see this montage.

00:16:14.140 I want the audience to know only the first judge who you will hear was appointed by a Republican.

00:16:19.600 All the other judges on this court were were appointed by Democrats.

00:16:24.520 So this is a Democrat court that just found in favor of Donald Trump.

00:16:29.280 But here's how the oral argument went a couple of months ago, September of 24.

00:16:34.940 Judith Vale for the New York Attorney General's office.

00:16:37.440 All of the defendants repeatedly violated.

00:16:39.460 Ms. Vale, can you identify any previous case in which the Attorney General sued under Executive Law 6312 to upset a private business transaction that was between equally sophisticated partners,

00:16:53.240 where the supposed victim had the ability and legal obligation to discover the allegedly misrepresented matters by conducting its own due diligence,

00:17:03.240 where the supposed wrongdoer advised the supposed victim through written disclaimers to conduct its own due diligence and to draw its own conclusions,

00:17:13.080 where the alleged misrepresentation almost entirely concerned inherently subjective valuations of properties and businesses.

00:17:20.220 And where and where the victim never complained about any fraud in the transaction or losses from it.

00:17:27.140 And I want to add to his question and little to no impact on the public marketplace.

00:17:32.380 Well, maybe I'll take that first, Your Honor, and work backwards.

00:17:35.380 There was absolutely a public impact and a public interest here.

00:17:38.680 There are at least four different public harms from the kind of misconduct here.

00:17:42.340 The immense penalty in this case is troubling.

00:17:44.520 So how do you tether the amount that was assessed by the Supreme Court to the harm that was caused here,

00:17:52.260 where the parties left these transactions happy about how things went down?

00:17:57.420 Well, disgorgement, Your Honor, looks at taking the gain away from the wrongdoer.

00:18:01.160 And although this is a large number, it's a large number for a couple reasons.

00:18:04.800 One, because there was a lot of fraud.

00:18:06.100 Oh, is it because it was a lot of fraud?

00:18:09.560 Here, by the way, Phil, is when it happened, the View's response,

00:18:15.220 thinking about the possibility of Tish James seizing Donald Trump's properties throughout New York,

00:18:21.600 which is what Tish James has been promising to this day that she's going to do.

00:18:26.400 Watch.

00:18:27.120 This is SOT 53.

00:18:28.060 You know who says he cannot come up with the cash to cover his $400 million plus bond in his New York fraud case.

00:18:43.740 And I can't wait to see the chains on Trump Tower, actually, on Fifth Avenue.

00:18:47.780 I'm like, kind of excited about it.

00:18:51.040 Sonny Huston should have been more worried about her husband's legal troubles and less focused on Donald Trump's.

00:18:56.440 As it turns out, all these people wind up revealing themselves.

00:19:00.360 Time reveals them, or in her case, their family members, for what they truly are, Phil.

00:19:05.940 Well, look, that's what we can expect out of the View because, you know, the View is the View, and we all know what that is.

00:19:12.720 But what's more troubling to me is watching this assistant prosecutor from the AG's office make this ridiculous argument to the appeals court

00:19:22.060 talking about fraud and disgorgement of ill-gained or ill-gotten gains when there was no actual fraud. 0.96

00:19:29.700 Nobody was defrauded of a damn thing.

00:19:32.700 There was not one nickel that was defrauded from any of these lenders. 0.81

00:19:38.180 And so the whole thing is just built on a house of cards.

00:19:42.380 Ingeron, I think, has some responsibility here, too, because if you're the judge and the trial judge,

00:19:47.720 you're supposed to make sure that this kind of farce doesn't happen in your courtroom, but he allowed it, and he was a part of it.

00:19:54.380 And so what I want to know is why we are allowing these judges like this and prosecutors like this to stay involved in these cases.

00:20:03.880 When Tish James goes out and makes all of these public comments about how she is focusing her efforts specifically on one individual that she is targeting for political reasons,

00:20:15.460 how is that prosecutor allowed by the judge to remain on the case?

00:20:20.380 Because if that's not bias, if that's not bias, expressed bias, I don't know what is.

00:20:25.860 Phil, how many times did we have conversations on this show about Fannie Willis and the number of motions that she was subjected to 0.93

00:20:34.040 because she made out-of-court statements that were against Trump and the defense team suggesting they were racist,

00:20:43.220 they played the race card against her, and that was because she committed ethical violations that they called her out on, 0.92

00:20:49.900 and then she, in defense of herself, went into a church and tried to suggest they were all racist.

00:20:54.120 That became a new basis to potentially disqualify her because you're not allowed to even say something like that, 1.00

00:21:00.440 never mind campaign on the promise to get just some citizen whose alleged crimes you don't even know exist yet.

00:21:09.680 I mean, that's why you say she should be disbarred. I totally agree with you. 0.71

00:21:14.900 In a rational world, in a rational legal world, a trial judge would not allow either of these prosecutors to stay in the case.

00:21:22.880 A simple motion saying, look, judge, this is what she has said publicly about my client.

00:21:28.160 She's targeting my client. 0.97

00:21:29.380 In a criminal context, if you're talking about targeted malicious prosecution, that's one thing.

00:21:35.340 It's the same principle over in the civil case.

00:21:38.280 You can't just use the awesome power of the state to target and prosecute specific persons with whom you have a political beef.

00:21:47.220 And it's just so crazy that we're here in August of 2025 having this discussion because this is like Law 101.

00:21:56.180 It's almost like people forgot law that they learned in law school or they were absent the day they taught law in law school.

00:22:03.140 Ingeron needs to be off the bench.

00:22:05.980 He has no business presiding over trials in New York.

00:22:09.980 Letitia James has no business bringing, of all things, mortgage fraud cases now on behalf of the state of New York.

00:22:17.560 These people need to be out of their jobs.

00:22:19.780 They need to be dealt with.

00:22:21.180 They need to be dealt with severely.

00:22:22.720 And honestly, I'm at the point where I don't know that the appeals process is enough.

00:22:26.900 It's not enough to just say, all right, Ingeron, you and your $500 million judgment, you're done, no more of that.

00:22:35.060 That's not enough.

00:22:36.180 We need to have an appellate process that can send a message to prosecutors and to judges and say, look, you can't do this.

00:22:43.880 There's rules against it, and these things have teeth. 1.00

00:22:46.880 Yeah, you can't abuse people like this.

00:22:48.700 It was intended to be abusive of Donald Trump, who has just reacted in a very, very long Truth Social post.

00:22:56.660 I'm going to read you just my producer's pulling of the highlights.

00:23:01.340 Total victory in the fake New York State Attorney General Letitia James case.

00:23:05.780 I greatly respect the fact that the court had the courage to throw out this unlawful and disgraceful decision that was hurting business all throughout New York State.

00:23:12.800 By the way, that was something verified by Kevin O'Leary, who was saying the chilling effect this is going to have on companies from wanting to do business in New York.

00:23:19.820 Sorry, that was my own aside.

00:23:21.300 Others, continuing here with Trump, were afraid to do business there.

00:23:24.520 The amount, including interest and penalties, was over $550 million.

00:23:29.480 It was a political witch hunt in a business sense, the likes of which no one has ever seen before.

00:23:34.880 That's really true.

00:23:35.660 Trump's prone to hyperbole, but that's actually true.

00:23:38.200 Going back to him, every single dollar was thrown out, even the penalties imposed on us by the corrupt judge, one of the most overturned in history, Arthur Engeron.

00:23:47.580 I am so honored by Justice David Friedman's great words of wisdom, which should be read by everyone.

00:23:52.760 I would also like to thank the court for having the courage to make this decision, which is already going down as one of the worst business persecutions in the history of our country.

00:24:02.700 I mean, that's just great, and honestly, good for him.

00:24:05.120 And here's a little from David Friedman's opinion that Trump cites.

00:24:09.400 He writes,

00:24:09.740 The Attorney General, in her 2018 election campaign for her current office, repeatedly promised the voters that her top priority upon being sworn in would be to bring down President Trump and his real estate empire. 0.98

00:24:22.260 Whatever one may think of President Trump's character and policies, Section 6312 was not enacted for the Attorney General to use as a stick with which to beat the opponents of her political party.

00:24:34.440 I mean, Will, from a judge on a New York State appellate court, that's like as vicious and sweeping a condemnation as you can get.

00:24:44.800 Yeah, and I think it's really revealing of, you know, this is sort of why President Trump is president now.

00:24:51.780 I think if you go back to 2023, this case, along with so many of the other obviously unjust prosecutions of him, I think it really cemented Republican support for President Trump in the primary.

00:25:01.840 And I think it's ultimately, you know, he was ultimately vindicated at the ballot box in the first instance before any of this stuff came forward.

00:25:08.600 You know, listening to how you guys are talking about this, it just made me think that the actual just result here isn't merely that this gets thrown out.

00:25:15.200 It's that the state of New York has to compensate President Trump for his legal fees and his trouble.

00:25:19.900 It's really ridiculous that they persecuted him in this way.

00:25:22.440 And, you know, maybe he'll pursue an appeal on that front to say that the state of New York needs to cover his costs.

00:25:28.020 That would be amazing.

00:25:29.500 I think Tish James personally ought to have to reimburse him.

00:25:33.900 It ought to come out of her hide.

00:25:35.600 It ought to come out of her bank account.

00:25:37.600 Whatever she's got left, it ought to bankrupt her the way it's, you know, it could bankrupt. 0.99

00:25:41.820 She's got multiple homes. 1.00

00:25:42.880 Yeah, well, if it wasn't Donald Trump, nobody else would have been able to afford to defend themselves in this litigation.

00:25:49.160 So she ought to be on the hook personally, financially for this type of specious and egregious malicious prosecution.

00:25:56.900 Okay, but now what about the remaining injunctive relief, which has not been stricken?

00:26:01.980 And that's one of the reasons why David Friedman, who Trump just praised, he said, I would reverse the judgment entirely and dismiss the complaint.

00:26:10.160 There was, I haven't read the whole opinion.

00:26:13.180 It's 323 pages, but I think this is a unanimous reversal of the monetary award.

00:26:19.660 It's not a unanimous decision on all reasons and how they got there, but it's a unanimous reversal on that monetary award.

00:26:27.080 And Justice Friedman said, I'd reverse the whole thing.

00:26:30.960 I would dismiss this complaint because the other judges left in place.

00:26:36.100 Well, the injunctive relief that Engeron had put in place, I said in the intro, look, compared to 550 million, this is a nothing burger. 0.92

00:26:45.040 But still, it's kind of bullshit since the whole case is bullshit and it's still standing. 0.98

00:26:49.420 Here it is. 0.99

00:26:52.000 Engeron, in New York State, you call the trial court the Supreme Court.

00:26:54.600 The Supreme Court, one, enjoined Trump and the corporate defendants from applying for loans from many financial institutions chartered by or registered within with the New York State Department of Financial Services for three years.

00:27:06.440 Two, barred Trump, Alan Weisselberg, his CFO, and another guy from serving as corporate officers or directors in New York for three years.

00:27:14.540 And barred Trump Jr. and Eric Trump from doing so for two years.

00:27:19.500 Three, permanently prohibited Weisselberg and the other guy, McHughney, from serving in financial management roles in New York.

00:27:25.060 Four, extended the independent monitor's terms for three years so they have an independent monitor overseeing the Trump Organization, which I know they hate.

00:27:32.140 And five, required the Trump Organization to retain an independent director of compliance.

00:27:36.540 So you tell me whether any of that should stand, which it is.

00:27:38.940 It is right now.

00:27:39.740 I mean, that's grounds alone for him to appeal to the Court of Appeals.

00:27:43.020 Yeah, so this is where how bizarre this ruling is.

00:27:46.420 And you'll forgive me if I make some errors here because, you know, I had maybe 40 minutes to try and get a sense of what we'll handle on a 300-page judgment.

00:27:53.020 But my understanding was it was a 2-2-1.

00:27:55.760 And there were actually three judges who would have tossed out any of the findings of liability.

00:28:00.540 There were two judges who would have vacated the summary judgment motion and remanded for a new trial.

00:28:05.180 And then one judge, Judge Friedman, who would have tossed out the whole thing.

00:28:08.320 But my understanding is because those people couldn't agree on what the proper course forward was between a new trial and an outright dismissal, that the two judges who wanted a new trial instead decided to baseline agree with the other two judges and, you know, agree to the finding of liability and to the imposition of injunctive relief, which is very, very weird.

00:28:29.040 You know, normally, if you have a majority of judges agreeing that somebody shouldn't be found liable, they aren't.

00:28:35.320 And yet here, that didn't happen.

00:28:37.220 So I wouldn't be surprised, therefore, if you see Trump try to appeal this and his co-defendants to try and get all these silly injunctions reversed.

00:28:45.260 But, you know, in the grand scheme of things, the most important thing here to get rid of was obviously this gargantuan monetary judgment.

00:28:51.240 Absolutely.

00:28:51.920 And I think that they'll be fine with a W there.

00:28:55.060 Only since he became president has, I think, forgive me if I don't have the exact numbers, but I just looked at this the other day.

00:29:01.800 I think, you know, there's what he's worth on paper and then there's what he actually has in the bank, you know, as all of us, right?

00:29:08.500 Like if you said, what are you worth?

00:29:09.900 Well, you'd calculate up the equity you have in your home.

00:29:13.380 What is your car worth?

00:29:14.560 You know, you'd come up with some number, but it would not equal the amount you have of liquid cash in your bank account.

00:29:20.900 Same is true for Donald Trump.

00:29:22.240 And it was estimating that only now since becoming president and, you know, the value of all his properties has gone up and he's whatever.

00:29:30.360 He's gotten some legal settlements that have gone to his presidential library mostly.

00:29:33.480 Anyway, they're saying only now is he liquid enough to potentially pay $550 million, but this would have bankrupted him, Phil.

00:29:42.540 That was the goal, to bankrupt him.

00:29:44.000 So the relief to Team Trump in seeing that award go away has got to be huge.

00:29:51.760 Nonetheless, they should appeal this, should they not, to the Court of Appeals and say the injunctive relief must also go?

00:29:58.640 Well, I've been thinking about that, and I'm not really sure because if I'm representing Trump and I say, look, the whole enchilada or most of it anyway was this gargantuan $500 and some odd million disgorgement order.

00:30:13.980 I might just say, look, all right, if the state doesn't appeal, we're not either.

00:30:19.040 We're just going to go ahead and take the W.

00:30:21.480 But I think it's kind of an academic point because I feel almost certain that despite what might be prudent, I think Letitia James is going to probably appeal, and so there's going to have to be an answer on appeal.

00:30:34.220 So I think one way or another this is going up to the New York Court of Appeals, which is their version of the state Supreme Court.

00:30:41.580 But if it weren't for the fact that I think James is going to appeal, I might advise my client to just leave the status quo in place because the injunctive relief may be over soon enough anyway, and we can just move on from this.

00:30:55.340 But that's not Donald Trump's nature.

00:30:57.220 As we all know, he's going to fight back.

00:30:59.480 He's going to file that appeal.

00:31:01.320 James is going to appeal.

00:31:02.760 Everybody's going to appeal.

00:31:03.860 And so we get to see what the Supreme Court of New York or the Court of Appeals of New York, I should say, is going to finally do.

00:31:09.680 Yeah, OK, so my numbers were right.

00:31:12.800 My team forwarded me the following.

00:31:14.860 Forbes estimates Trump's net worth on paper at $5.1 billion.

00:31:18.600 He now has approximately $770 million in liquid assets.

00:31:21.960 That's up from approximately $413 million after Angerong's fraud ruling, with the bump largely thanks to the president's cryptocurrency holdings.

00:31:30.600 Here, to your point, Will, is what Judge Friedman said.

00:31:34.140 He said, like to your point about these other judges upholding the injunctive relief despite wanting to reverse the underlying judgment, like not believing that they had proven the fraud.

00:31:45.420 He writes, to draw a sports analogy, it is as if a team is awarded a touchdown without crossing the goal line.

00:31:53.100 So there's plenty for the Court of Appeals to chew on.

00:31:55.320 But for now, the important thing is it's a big it's a huge Trump win.

00:31:59.800 It's a huge Tish James loss.

00:32:02.980 There probably will be an appeal that she will not win.

00:32:06.040 The only question is whether Trump can get rid of that injunctive relief and possibly get his fees paid for.

00:32:11.140 And now we move on to the portion of the case where Tish James is held to the no one is above the law principle and mortgage fraud is deeply wrong principle.

00:32:22.380 And possibly ethical violations potentially brought against her and her law license phase of the story.

00:32:30.400 Looking forward to that.

00:32:31.900 Gentlemen, a pleasure.

00:32:33.240 Thank you for coming on so quickly.

00:32:35.280 Always happy to be here.

00:32:36.900 Yeah, thanks for having me.

00:32:38.300 Wow.

00:32:38.680 What a day.

00:32:39.380 What a day.

00:32:40.960 It's all failed.

00:32:42.420 All the law fair against Donald Trump has failed. 0.61

00:32:45.160 The only thing that actually stuck was that ridiculous defamation case by E. Jean Carroll for her alleged sexual assault, the date of which she couldn't remember.

00:32:56.080 Friends couldn't remember.

00:32:57.520 That's that's the only thing that stuck.

00:32:59.180 OK, everything else Trump has defeated.

00:33:02.840 He defeated four criminal cases against him.

00:33:05.780 The U.S. Supreme Court wound up issuing a ruling that presidents in their official duties largely have immunity, a hugely consequential ruling.

00:33:14.300 And now this massive judgment that was lingering over him, I'm sure casting a cloud over his entire business and family, has been lifted.

00:33:24.060 The prosecutor humiliated.

00:33:26.320 And she's about to learn the hard way that no one really is above the law.

00:33:31.760 What a day.

00:33:33.340 And it's about to get even better because Maureen Callahan is here for the rest of the show.

00:33:37.120 So much to get to with her.

00:33:39.000 All right.

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00:34:35.360 Maureen Callahan has been crushing it on her show, The Nerve. 0.99

00:34:40.160 It's literally one of my favorites.

00:34:42.120 I save it all up until the weekend, and then I listen to it while I'm on my run or sitting under the red light, which is a favorite topic thing for me to do.

00:34:51.980 But I feel like she's always there for me, and she's so funny, and her topics are so juicy.

00:34:57.440 It's just like a guilty pleasure, but you shouldn't have guilt because this is so fun.

00:35:01.000 And we're going to keep it rolling right here, getting into some topics that she's been keeping an eye on for us.

00:35:06.220 There is the new CNN documentary on JFK Jr.

00:35:10.040 I use that term loosely.

00:35:11.440 Again, documentary.

00:35:12.500 It is not.

00:35:13.340 She's got the actual documentary in her book, and we'll talk about that.

00:35:18.140 Also, the highly anticipated end of the Sex and the City reboot, and just like that, Maureen's been all over it, plus Jennifer Aniston's new boyfriend, a wellness guru and hypnotherapist.

00:35:30.500 I have never heard such inane, empty advice from anyone in my life, and this apparently is doing it for Jennifer Aniston.

00:35:42.540 We'll talk about it. 0.78

00:35:43.620 Maureen's been all over this on her show.

00:35:45.680 She's got thoughts.

00:35:46.340 Joining me now, Maureen Callahan, host of The Nerve on the MK Media Podcast Network.

00:35:51.340 All you have to do is go into your podcast search bar, type in The Nerve, or go to YouTube and type in The Nerve, and it'll bring up Maureen's show.

00:35:57.400 Make sure you subscribe and follow.

00:35:58.700 Truly, truly, truly, you'll thank me.

00:36:00.840 How are you doing, my friend?

00:36:02.400 I'm doing really well.

00:36:03.960 I'm so happy to see you, Megan.

00:36:05.320 It's been forever.

00:36:06.880 I know.

00:36:07.720 I know.

00:36:08.120 I can't wait until we're back together physically, and I've been reading all of your recommendations.

00:36:12.220 Maureen gave me some great recommendations at the beginning of the summer.

00:36:15.080 We have to talk about that.

00:36:16.000 I'm going to tell the audience what they are, so we're not going to talk about them now because the audience probably hasn't done them yet.

00:36:21.700 But you recommend it on your show, Gray Gardens.

00:36:25.280 It's like a documentary that was done in the 1970s on these two women who are speaking of the Kennedys related to Jackie Kennedy.

00:36:33.000 And it was one of the most bizarre, entertaining, crazy two hours I've ever watched on television.

00:36:42.260 So people check it out.

00:36:43.860 I'd love to go over this with all of us once you've all seen it.

00:36:47.060 Did, on your recommendation, finally get around to reading Beautiful Ruins by Jess Walter, which was Chef's Kiss.

00:36:55.280 I know.

00:36:55.900 I can't believe it took me this long.

00:36:57.940 It was wonderful.

00:36:58.740 I know I had texted that to you as a wreck, but, like, I didn't realize you had read it.

00:37:02.940 So I'm so thrilled because I thought you would love it.

00:37:05.280 I really did.

00:37:05.880 Yeah.

00:37:06.140 I have never read it.

00:37:07.420 And, you know, to be honest, I had started it a couple times, and I never, like, it never took for me.

00:37:12.100 And this is the first time I got past, like, the opening chapter, which, for some reason, didn't do it for me originally.

00:37:17.720 Loved it.

00:37:18.380 Loved the whole book.

00:37:19.560 Great recommendation.

00:37:20.320 Okay, and there's more, but I already told people about my life with Ted Bundy or The Stranger Next to Me, which is so good.

00:37:29.140 Yes, and, you know, I think about that.

00:37:31.920 I'm always sort of reluctant to recommend it because I feel like what if somebody's already read it and they're like, that's such an obvious recommendation.

00:37:39.220 But I usually find most people haven't because the author Anne Rule was one of the first females to really do true crime as literature, and she's so underrated. 0.94

00:37:48.740 And I think so much about this book when following the Kohlberger case.

00:37:55.620 Like, it's all I think about.

00:37:56.680 It's all I think about is The Stranger Beside Me.

00:37:58.900 The Stranger Beside Me.

00:38:00.020 Exactly.

00:38:00.540 Kohlberger.

00:38:01.080 And also, I've been thinking about her.

00:38:04.220 Now, my dearest friend, she listens to the show every day, Donna.

00:38:07.700 Now she's listening to the audio because she heard you and I were talking about it, and now she's texting me her updates on Ted Bundy.

00:38:13.660 It's very strange to spend time with Ted Bundy.

00:38:15.780 Thankfully, he died in the electric chair, so it has a happy ending.

00:38:18.740 But Anne Rule also wrote a book called Small Sacrifices about this woman who killed her three kids, and I've been thinking about that in connection with this horrible case we've been covering on AM Update out of California with this missing baby, Emmanuel Harrow, and how the mother claimed that she was knocked out in a parking lot and someone took her baby.

00:38:44.140 And I'm telling you, that case is falling apart.

00:38:46.780 We'll see.

00:38:47.380 The cops are not yet saying that the parents are their suspects, but it seems clear to those of us following the case.

00:38:52.780 The parents are the suspects.

00:38:54.660 That's my opinion.

00:38:55.520 And it's horrific what this father has done to his other children.

00:39:00.620 He's already been convicted of child abuse, so we'll stay on it.

00:39:04.800 But anyway, I'm just thinking about these authors that you've recommended.

00:39:07.560 They've been all over similar cases.

00:39:09.780 And history repeats itself, Maureen, you know?

00:39:11.780 So you read these things, and they're interesting.

00:39:14.360 And in part, they're interesting because they provide a new window through which for you to see current cases and, sadly, very similar stories.

00:39:22.500 Yeah, and, you know, with this, the thing with Bundy is so many, he's got direct descendants who, when they are caught, say, I was influenced by him.

00:39:34.920 I read everything I could.

00:39:36.660 I learned a lot from his MO.

00:39:38.740 I learned a lot about how to avoid detection.

00:39:41.860 We know Brian Kohlberger was very, very interested in Ted Bundy and had done his reading.

00:39:47.440 Being active in that sort of pocket of the country is a similar thing.

00:39:52.580 And it's why I hope we continue to get more and more documents, witness interviews, whatever is available about this case.

00:40:02.760 I really do think it's not only in the public's best interest, but I think that this case is one that law enforcement and trainees at Quantico should be learning from.

00:40:11.840 It's true.

00:40:41.820 Butt-effed, that's the term that was used against him, by fellow prisoners.

00:40:47.060 Good.

00:40:48.140 Suffer.

00:40:49.140 Who says prisoners don't have a heart?

00:40:51.940 I'm sorry, but I'm, like, sitting here watching these reports, Maureen, of what the prisoners are threatening him with and, like, allegedly flooding his cell with overflowing toilets.

00:41:01.100 And all I can think is I'd like to shake their hand.

00:41:04.000 I want to know who these good prisoners are who are trying to do what the justice system failed to.

00:41:08.740 Agreed.

00:41:09.300 Have you heard about the complaints he's leveled?

00:41:12.460 I mean, he's apparently made his complaints known in writing because he's having trouble sleeping.

00:41:17.920 Irony of ironies. 0.97

00:41:19.620 Oh, you're having trouble sleeping?

00:41:21.440 Because all of the inmates in this prison have taken it upon themselves 24-7 to be howling and catcalling through the vents so that he doesn't have a moment's silence.

00:41:34.280 And I love it.

00:41:35.300 I love it.

00:41:36.060 And I think that there are active conversations about how long they wait until they just murder him in prison, like how much they can make him suffer, how much he can, how long he'll have to live with that sword hanging over his neck, that he's going to die.

00:41:54.240 But they're just figuring out the most painful and lengthy way to make that happen.

00:42:01.020 Yeah, I completely agree with you.

00:42:02.820 And who are these wonderful men who are willing to do this?

00:42:07.040 I'm sorry.

00:42:07.500 Like, I realize this is very, like, I don't know, somewhat evil.

00:42:11.560 I don't care.

00:42:12.240 He ended these four people's lives in the prime of their youth while they had no chance to defend themselves, though they tried.

00:42:23.080 He stabbed Zanna Karnodal over 50 times as she fought for her life, the deep gashes all over her hands as she tried defensively to put her hands up.

00:42:33.860 That's Zanna on the right in the orange blouse, not to mention what he did to Kaylee, who's there right next to Zanna in this photo, who he beat the living daylights out of as she fought to save her life, too.

00:42:47.280 I mean, the the stab wounds to their faces, including Maddie's right next to Kaylee in those photos. 0.98

00:42:53.640 But who gives two shits that he cannot sleep at night or that they are threatening him with sexual assault? 0.99

00:43:02.620 This guy actually thinks he's checked into a Marriott, Maureen. 0.99

00:43:06.740 He's his sexual harassment report.

00:43:08.820 It reads as follows.

00:43:10.360 Well, the prisoner report, prison report reads that this prisoner submitted a concern form stating that he, quote, has been subject to threats and harassment recently escalating to overt sexually violent threats and statements.

00:43:23.960 He received the concern form on August 4th, 2025, conducted an interview with Kohlberger in J Block, which is where he's housed.

00:43:32.060 Kohlberger stated a resident that goes by Peru told him, I'll butt F you. 0.98

00:43:37.600 Kohlberger also stated an unknown resident from tier one of J Block said the only ass we'll be eating is Kohlberger's. 0.99

00:43:44.520 Oh, was it scary to feel out of control and in danger? 0.94

00:43:48.460 That didn't make you feel good. 0.99

00:43:50.440 None of us gives two shits. 0.98

00:43:52.660 You know, to just address the top of what you just said there, I often really relate to the God of the Old Testament, the God of wrath and vengeance. 0.99

00:44:04.940 And, you know, I think the God of wrath and vengeance would be just fine with what is being meted out to Brian Kohlberger, who has the temerity to complain that he's being sexually harassed.

00:44:17.280 When this latest document dump from the authorities contains multiple witness interviews from women who said he was harassing me, he would keep me from exiting rooms by blocking the doorway.

00:44:29.660 This is a big, big guy.

00:44:31.440 He would follow me to my car.

00:44:33.120 Multiple women. 1.00

00:44:34.320 He would follow me.

00:44:35.300 He had this thing that he loved to do, which was to go to a professor's office at closing time or an eatery, an establishment, whatever, as they're about to close and walk in and keep talking and never stop.

00:44:49.320 And this was about power and control and dominance and contempt.

00:44:53.240 I control you.

00:44:54.440 There were many formal reports made at that university.

00:44:57.700 This guy makes me uncomfortable.

00:44:59.940 He stalks me.

00:45:01.060 He has cornered me.

00:45:02.320 He stares at me.

00:45:03.340 He stands in front of me.

00:45:04.460 He stands over me.

00:45:05.520 He doesn't do anything.

00:45:07.100 One professor said, this guy's a potential future.

00:45:10.840 First of all, this guy's in a criminology course.

00:45:12.880 You're telling me this school couldn't ID this guy?

00:45:17.220 I know.

00:45:18.500 He's escalating.

00:45:19.720 Is it true that those who can't do teach? 1.00

00:45:23.160 Yes.

00:45:23.600 Maureen, I had the same reaction.

00:45:25.320 She's referring here to the supplemental reports that we're getting.

00:45:29.080 Well, they're not supplemental, but to some of the reports that the police took while investigating this case that we're just now seeing.

00:45:34.460 Thanks to the lifting of the gag order.

00:45:36.500 And that was my reaction, too, which is like, how did it take Washington University anything more than a beat when these murders happened to say, I know who did it?

00:45:49.740 I guarantee you, you should at least be questioning this guy, Brian Kohlberger, who, you know, we are 10 miles away.

00:45:56.580 And speaking of Ted Bundy, all of his original murders happened in Washington state.

00:46:00.740 I do wonder whether that's why Brian Kohlberger went out to Washington state for his Ph.D.

00:46:04.600 And look, why was it?

00:46:07.720 They were all complaining about him.

00:46:09.400 They were worried about him.

00:46:10.520 They were predicting he was going to behave criminally.

00:46:13.160 And then four people, including three young women, get murdered.

00:46:16.400 How did it take them as long as it did to say that's the guy?

00:46:21.360 First of all, after the murders, he's showing up to class in a heavy coat covering him neck to wrist to, you know.

00:46:28.640 So and it wasn't weather appropriate.

00:46:30.960 He's got bruises and cuts all over his hands.

00:46:33.880 He's he's drinking heavily.

00:46:35.520 He had clearly he had, by all reports, never been a drinker before.

00:46:39.060 He was unwrapping.

00:46:40.360 He looked like it's all the markers of a major offender.

00:46:43.460 But what bothers me so much is the lead up to me.

00:46:47.300 This guy screamed.

00:46:48.560 He's an offender. 0.83

00:46:49.600 He is harassing women.

00:46:51.700 He is making them uncomfortable.

00:46:53.680 There were, I believe, at least 13 written complaints about him stalking them out to their cars.

00:47:00.300 There were multiple women who refused to even walk to their cars alone once the sun went down. 1.00

00:47:05.240 I mean, you know how early it gets.

00:47:07.100 I mean, dark it gets early in the in the fall months, especially.

00:47:11.120 Yes.

00:47:12.040 And then there's this one thing in the report where the the the complaints reached such a crescendo.

00:47:17.580 And I really think this is a direct result of this coddling culture that we have in America that seems very stubborn.

00:47:24.940 The complaints about Koberger alone reached such a crescendo that the university decided that they were going to hold a group meeting for all of the students about what constituted appropriate behavior, even though it was only directed at one person.

00:47:40.340 Brian Koberger sat in the back of that classroom the entire time with his head in his hands, staring at the ceiling.

00:47:48.080 Why was there not a direct come to Jesus with Brian Koberger?

00:47:51.260 You knock this off or we're kicking you out of school.

00:47:54.200 You'll get a tuition refund and security will make sure you never show your face again.

00:47:59.380 Yeah, no, I completely agree.

00:48:01.020 It's like they knew they had a problem.

00:48:03.420 When I was reading these documents, my first thought was that I heard Steve Gonsalves say he wasn't planning, at least immediately after the verdict or not the verdict, but the plea deal on suing the University of Idaho, you know, for not for failing to keep the students safe.

00:48:19.360 And they were living in an off campus housing area anyway.

00:48:22.560 But but now I'm wondering whether he should consider a lawsuit against the University of Washington, where Koberger was.

00:48:29.100 I mean, 2020 hindsight, I get it.

00:48:31.780 You can't necessarily say this guy is going to be a killer, but I certainly hope that the lessons will be taken to heart here.

00:48:37.660 And you know what, Maureen?

00:48:38.640 It's just part of like an ongoing even post me to pattern of women's complaints. 1.00

00:48:45.080 It's like, whatever.

00:48:46.640 There's nothing we can do.

00:48:47.920 I'm sure she's overreacting.

00:48:49.460 So he's a little creepy.

00:48:50.520 It's like, no, women have a sixth sense. 1.00

00:48:54.280 It's a gift.

00:48:55.360 It's the gift of fear, per Gavin DeBecker.

00:48:57.900 And you would do well to listen to it.

00:49:01.360 It's it's like a superpower not to be ignored, but to be thankful for and to listen to.

00:49:08.240 And had they done that and ejected this guy from the University of Washington, it's not too far to say those four kids might still be alive today.

00:49:16.580 One hundred percent.

00:49:17.600 I had the exact same thought while reading through these documents.

00:49:20.460 I hope those parents mobilize and sue this university because they at every turn, they turned a blind eye.

00:49:28.940 And the and this is the thing, too.

00:49:32.060 It's not like he was a philosophy major or a liberal.

00:49:35.920 We're talking about a criminology department.

00:49:38.080 And when they minimize this, right, and they just put all of these, you know, you read that there were HR reports about this and it's got all that kind of HR sanded down language, you know, just to make it mean nothing.

00:49:50.840 Yeah.

00:49:51.280 This this goes to the kind of minimizing the institutional minimizing of women's concerns in this way. 0.96

00:49:58.360 One of the girls, I forget whether it was Zana or Dylan, said, I felt that it was a survivor.

00:50:05.980 It had to be Dylan.

00:50:06.560 I felt being stalked for weeks, if not, I felt I felt we were being watched.

00:50:12.880 I could feel a presence out there.

00:50:14.800 I felt the house was unsafe.

00:50:16.680 We did.

00:50:17.000 We had windows you could see right through when they came home that day.

00:50:20.760 And I am in no way blaming the victims.

00:50:22.560 But this is how insidious minimizing the stuff.

00:50:26.820 It manifests.

00:50:28.180 They came home one day to find the front door off the hinges and they didn't call the police.

00:50:33.060 Instead, like dad's just repaired it.

00:50:35.860 And that's the moment you go, wait, no, listen to my gut.

00:50:39.320 Something's really wrong.

00:50:40.400 I don't feel safe.

00:50:42.240 Yep.

00:50:42.580 I know.

00:50:43.180 And the dog Murphy had been acting strangely, like alerting and barking when he wasn't they

00:50:48.520 weren't used to that.

00:50:49.740 Just to correct myself, I said Washington University of Washington was Washington State, which is

00:50:53.680 a different university.

00:50:54.600 That's that's where Kohlberger was Washington State.

00:50:56.920 All right.

00:50:57.140 There's a lot more to get into.

00:50:59.640 I don't even know where to begin, but you're going to enjoy the rest of the show.

00:51:02.080 And wait until you hear the Jennifer Aniston boyfriend. 0.97

00:51:05.060 OK, that's like going to be the highlight of the two hours.

00:51:07.860 Maureen stays with us for the full show, and we will be right back.

00:51:11.120 While you have this quick break, go subscribe to The Nerve wherever you get your podcasts

00:51:15.720 and on YouTube.

00:51:16.460 Just type in The Nerve.

00:51:17.240 Maureen Callahan, it'll come right up.

00:51:18.800 You'll thank us both.

00:51:20.060 It's wonderful.

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00:52:12.560 Here with me today, Maureen Callahan.

00:52:17.980 She's host of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan.

00:52:20.240 You can go to thenerveshow.com for all the links, giving you exactly where you should subscribe

00:52:26.940 so you never miss a moment of The Nerve.

00:52:29.160 And because God—sorry, I'm looking at Twitter and I'll tell you why.

00:52:32.440 Because God is a Fair God just got the news that Kamala Harris is going to go on tour

00:52:39.000 to promote her book, 107 Days on Tour this fall.

00:52:46.440 I don't know what I've done to deserve this, but this is a lovely gift to those of us in the news

00:52:52.020 who've missed Kamala Harris and her inanity and look forward to celebrating her tour,

00:52:57.540 though perhaps not in the way she anticipates.

00:53:00.120 Steve Krakauer, how is that going to help your pitch to getting her on the show?

00:53:04.520 Steve says we're going to point out that a hate read counts just as much as a love read.

00:53:12.140 Jake Tapper sold a lot of books when he came on this show, and so too will you, Kamala Harris.

00:53:16.360 I promise you.

00:53:17.720 Maybe not for the reasons you want, but the point is you need money,

00:53:22.600 and we'll help you make it by selling your book right here.

00:53:26.000 Okay, moving on from Kamala Harris, because that is just too juicy.

00:53:30.120 So you, okay, wait, wait, before we get to In Just Like That, there's a lot of other stuff we have to get to.

00:53:35.620 Where are we going to start?

00:53:36.740 The Kennedys.

00:53:37.680 You literally wrote the book on The Kennedys, Ask Not, and it's a great book, and it's such a fun, quick read.

00:53:44.280 Every single character is more interesting than the next.

00:53:46.420 Some of the most interesting Kennedys were ones I didn't even really know much about,

00:53:50.260 like Kit Kennedy, who was like one of the forgotten Kennedys.

00:53:53.640 But in there, we cover JFK Jr. quite a bit, and there are just alarming stories about him and his bride, Carolyn Bessette.

00:54:04.160 And now all of it's being rewritten by CNN Maureen, which is dropping this, quote, documentary called The American Prince.

00:54:14.320 And I think that's the name of it.

00:54:17.180 And you have been pointing out that this sounds like it's going to be a complete work of fiction.

00:54:23.260 But once again, CNN will call it a documentary, and people will believe it.

00:54:27.020 So what about it do you believe is a lie?

00:54:31.300 All of it, except for his name, you know?

00:54:34.600 So it's three parts.

00:54:37.120 This is how CNN is going to try to, like, get their ratings back up.

00:54:40.960 George Clooney is, you know, yesterday's news.

00:54:44.300 So let's exhume the body, or what remained of the body, of JFK Jr.

00:54:49.840 And then let's get people who, like, they're talking heads on this thing,

00:54:54.400 who know nothing and had no connection to JFK Jr. or Carolyn Bessette or any of the Kennedys who are sitting there opining as if they're experts.

00:55:04.920 So it's a total FU to the viewing audience.

00:55:08.720 And then you have, like, my favorite Kennedy-adjacent person of all time.

00:55:12.720 We did a whole segment on Carol Radswell.

00:55:14.900 I heard this.

00:55:17.300 And is she the daughter-in-law of, is it Lee Radswell, who was Jackie's sister, right?

00:55:25.800 She was Jackie's sister, and she married this Radswell, and she had this daughter.

00:55:32.080 So this daughter is a niece to Jackie Kennedy.

00:55:36.220 So, yes, Carol was married to Anthony Radswell, Lee's son.

00:55:41.280 So not even a blood niece.

00:55:42.660 She's a married-in niece.

00:55:44.900 She married in.

00:55:45.900 She married in to the Bouvier side, okay?

00:55:48.820 There's no Kennedy blood in the Radswell bloodline.

00:55:53.060 And Carol, I think, from all of my reporting on John and Carolyn, these two were masters at making people feel they were closer to them than they really were.

00:56:05.240 So Carol Radswell, late of Real Housewives of New York, has been going around town since they died, saying, Carolyn was my best friend.

00:56:16.340 We were like sisters.

00:56:17.360 I don't know if you know, but John was my cousin through marriage.

00:56:24.020 John, you may have heard of him.

00:56:26.360 John Kennedy, Jr. 0.98

00:56:29.360 I mean, you die. 0.98

00:56:31.040 You die.

00:56:31.640 And then we aired this. 0.98

00:56:33.060 She did this.

00:56:33.740 So this is the esteem, the very serious regard with which Carol Radswell holds these legacies, and she's their self-appointed torchbearer.

00:56:43.040 Do you remember this kid, Tyler Henry, who had a show on the E! Network called Hollywood Medium?

00:56:51.540 Oh, yes.

00:56:52.440 So Carol went on Tyler's show, where Tyler pretends just to be a hick.

00:56:59.280 I mean, he may have his own show in which he's doing readings for celebrities.

00:57:03.760 Again, his way of buying time with them, like his branding, is he takes a pen and a pad of paper, and he scribbles.

00:57:11.600 That's the spirit coming through.

00:57:13.920 So he's scribbling while Carol's in this, like, well-appointed townhouse, you know, and he's going, I have no idea who you are.

00:57:21.920 Sure.

00:57:22.740 I have no idea who your loved ones are, but you know what's coming through to me?

00:57:25.620 A young woman who died tragically.

00:57:27.640 Oh, you don't say?

00:57:29.240 You don't say?

00:57:30.340 Like, the woman whose death made global headlines.

00:57:33.000 It's like, and it's Carol taking it all so seriously, and you just, it's to die.

00:57:37.900 Wait, we got to play a clip of this gal. 1.00

00:57:39.880 We got to let the audience see who this gal is. 1.00

00:57:44.140 Let's do Sot 3, because I know what she says here isn't true.

00:57:48.560 It's a very short clip.

00:57:49.780 Sot 3.

00:57:51.140 Didn't play the game. 0.98

00:57:52.760 She didn't, like, suck up to anyone. 0.98

00:57:54.820 No one in his family.

00:57:56.040 She was just like, hi. 0.96

00:57:58.920 Carolyn Bissette did not suck up to anybody. 1.00

00:58:01.500 And I know from our previous discussions in your book, that's a lie. 0.76

00:58:05.520 Carolyn Bissette Kennedy was dying to add that Kennedy to her name. 0.99

00:58:09.880 She had a, she studied John and his life, like, with the fervor of a Talmudic scholar.

00:58:17.480 You know, she had that copy of 1988 Sexiest Man Alive People Cover, like, stashed under her sink.

00:58:24.220 She really, really wanted it.

00:58:26.220 She worked hard at making it seem like she didn't want it. 0.51

00:58:29.720 Exactly.

00:58:29.740 And he often hated her terribly.

00:58:31.840 But she sort of mastered the art of, like, I don't care that much.

00:58:35.460 But she, behind the scenes, I mean, I detail it in the book.

00:58:38.060 She was doing everything she could to get in front of this guy and land him and keep him.

00:58:43.740 And then she got him and she was like, I don't want this.

00:58:46.800 This is awful.

00:58:47.480 Even, like, an image makeover, that she wasn't, like, this effortlessly chic, elegant person before she realized she might have the chance to date him.

00:58:59.280 No, she really went about, like, one of her friends told me that Carolyn hated exercise, hated it, and that she would hide that she went to this ballet bar class uptown.

00:59:09.300 She was secretly doing it.

00:59:10.940 And she was, like, doing everything she could to, like, cut, like, 20 pounds of weight.

00:59:14.580 And then the hair went, like, super white platinum.

00:59:17.860 And then we started dressing exclusively in, like, Japanese designers, like, very avant-garde and severe. 0.93

00:59:23.740 And then it was, like, the red lip with, like, no other make.

00:59:26.960 You know, it was, like, a very calculated attempt to make herself into a future first lady befitting the bride of JFK Jr. 0.99

00:59:36.620 It was all architected.

00:59:38.340 So, now, none of that will be in the CNN documentary because they feel like they're just going to do American prince and princess, this is royalty, they're Kennedys, obviously Democrats.

00:59:48.640 We will not be getting similar treatment for Ivanka Trump or Melania Trump.

00:59:52.960 And you've got this Carol Radswell, who's, I mean, all you had to say was real housewife alum to know exactly what we're dealing with here, who's running around in this documentary and elsewhere trying to pretend like she's the expert.

01:00:06.380 Meanwhile, everything she's saying totally contradicts with what you've reported based on people who actually spent a lot of time with these two.

01:00:12.900 Yeah, I have to wonder what Carolyn's really close friends think of this one, running her mouth at any given opportunity. 1.00

01:00:22.600 And I'm very, I'm going to be watching the final episode this weekend with a very, very surgical eye because they're going to cover the deaths.

01:00:31.200 And they're going to cover, and I think this is, I think transcends pop culture.

01:00:35.900 I think this is a very sick, sick thing for the body politic in America, and it's the reason why people distrust mainstream legacy news outlets.

01:00:46.120 On the nerve on Tuesday, we're going to be talking about what those deaths really looked like.

01:00:52.560 People don't talk about that.

01:00:54.540 The carnage at the bottom of that ocean that he caused deliberately.

01:00:59.540 This wasn't a tragic accident.

01:01:01.400 This isn't the stuff of Zeus striking down Icarus, who flew too close to the sun.

01:01:07.100 This was done by a guy with a death wish that is well chronicled, and not just a death wish for himself.

01:01:13.980 But as I wrote about in the book, he had a longtime girlfriend who he almost killed, I'm going to say at least three times, at least three times.

01:01:22.280 Yeah, no, you write about the, I remember the kayaking incident where she had like a broken leg and she really wasn't supposed to go out in the kayak, but they went anyway.

01:01:33.600 And then they had a hideous accident that seriously injured her.

01:01:37.580 And with the plane crash, too, he had been warned not to go.

01:01:42.600 Experienced pilots who were at the airport had decided not to take their planes up that day.

01:01:48.280 He knew he didn't have the experience.

01:01:50.480 He did it anyway with his bride, with his bride's sister, because truly he had some sort of a death wish.

01:01:58.500 He had some sort of a sickness that continued to push him to do deeply reckless things.

01:02:04.260 Yeah, absolutely.

01:02:07.100 I mean, not only that, here's what we never hear about.

01:02:10.020 And it boggles my mind because if you're just, if you're in journalism and you're interested in a story and a good story, you would never excise a detail such as this.

01:02:20.600 That night, before he crashed that plane into the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean, en route, he nearly smashed into a packed American Airlines commercial jetliner on his descent to, ironically, Kennedy Airport.

01:02:35.440 And there were 226 souls on that plane.

01:02:38.580 And if it were not for the quick thinking of those experienced commercial pilots, he would have slammed into that plane and killed hundreds of people.

01:02:46.940 But we're still going to pretend he's America's prince.

01:02:49.860 Okay.

01:02:50.480 Okay.

01:02:51.000 Mm-hmm.

01:02:51.920 Mm-hmm.

01:02:52.580 Yes.

01:02:53.100 And like the rewriting of his career as a, quote, journalist, you know, how they're going to have, I guess, whatever, we're going to revisit George as one of the greatest creations ever.

01:03:06.400 And, you know, you've been, I know you've pointed out, like, he wasn't, it wasn't.

01:03:11.580 He had blinders on when it came to anything Kennedy.

01:03:15.240 And let's face it, this being America, Kennedy relations touch a lot of our modern day stories.

01:03:20.480 And certainly when he was running this magazine that he launched.

01:03:24.080 The weird thing to me, so there are two fascinating things to me.

01:03:27.200 One is, so they're lionizing him as this, like, visionary.

01:03:30.240 We saw the blending of, okay, whatever.

01:03:32.980 MTV beat him to it.

01:03:34.200 MTV was covering Bill Clinton in 92, choose or lose.

01:03:37.560 That was the real beginning of politics and pop culture.

01:03:40.820 But he refused to cover the Clinton-Lewiski trial, or scandal, rather, excuse me.

01:03:45.380 He refused to cover that because he felt it was too, it just, it struck a nerve with him because his father had his own issues with one.

01:03:54.940 So, like, that's not-

01:03:56.180 This is also an ask-not.

01:03:58.040 His father's affair with a pre-teen intern in his marital bed with Jackie in the White House.

01:04:06.720 Yeah.

01:04:07.200 He got her drunk before she was a virgin, before she knew it.

01:04:10.540 He was on top of her. 0.65

01:04:11.680 He was inside of her.

01:04:12.940 To this day, she doesn't know how to describe it. 0.84

01:04:14.920 I describe it as a rape.

01:04:16.960 I would describe that as a rape.

01:04:18.880 She was 15 or 16.

01:04:20.680 She was very young.

01:04:21.740 She was a White House intern that he had plucked. 0.91

01:04:24.120 He plucked her. 0.93

01:04:25.420 And that's just one example.

01:04:27.720 One example.

01:04:28.800 So, we're not going to touch that.

01:04:31.260 And in fact, John writes-

01:04:34.000 So, again, like, we're going to lionize this guy all day long.

01:04:38.240 He writes a note to President Clinton.

01:04:40.400 Mind you, he has no memory of his father, of his years in the White House.

01:04:43.940 He was two going on three when his father was assassinated.

01:04:46.520 His letter, in some substance, says, Dear Mr. President, please don't get down about what's

01:04:52.940 happening to you, vis-a-vis the rumor that Lewinsky had orally serviced Bill under the

01:04:58.680 White House desk, which had been JFK's resolute desk.

01:05:01.820 He goes on to say, I have been under that desk, and there's hardly room for a two-year-old,

01:05:06.780 let alone a grown woman, who he then turned to one of his colleagues at George and called 1.00

01:05:11.840 a fat ass. 1.00

01:05:13.100 Lovely. 1.00

01:05:14.080 Lovely.

01:05:14.440 And then puts Drew Barrymore on the cover, dressed as Marilyn Monroe, the night Marilyn 0.51

01:05:22.180 sang Happy Birthday, Mr. President, to his father in 62, basically announcing to the world

01:05:27.660 they were having this extremely hot sexual affair, his mother's greatest public humiliation.

01:05:33.040 And he did it to, what, sell copies of his failing magazine?

01:05:36.980 This guy, are you kidding me?

01:05:39.860 Yeah.

01:05:40.500 Oh, my God.

01:05:40.900 That was an iconic moment with Marilyn and the president, and his response after she

01:05:45.000 sang that song in that sultry way was so funny.

01:05:48.160 I remember, it was like, thank you for that wholesome rendition of my happy birthday.

01:05:54.440 It was like, okay, everybody now knows what's happening between me and Marilyn.

01:05:58.760 Okay, let's keep going, because there's a lot to get through.

01:06:00.940 I'm going to get to the biggest loser in a second, but we've got to stay, start with

01:06:04.740 Jennifer Aniston.

01:06:06.200 So Jennifer Aniston is in the news.

01:06:09.100 She's being profiled.

01:06:11.140 Is it Vanity Fair profiling her, Maureen?

01:06:13.640 Who is it?

01:06:14.540 Vanity Fair.

01:06:15.100 You got it.

01:06:15.620 Cover story.

01:06:16.120 Okay.

01:06:16.440 It's Vanity Fair cover story with Jennifer Aniston.

01:06:19.820 And Jennifer Aniston, you pointed this out on The Nerve, it's called Zen and the Art of

01:06:24.880 Being Jennifer Aniston.

01:06:25.740 They call her exquisitely maintained 56-year-old, a monument to self-care, go on about how Gwyneth

01:06:33.660 Paltrow and she are super close friends, they trade wellness intel, and there's a lot that

01:06:41.280 jumps out at me in this, and I'll just tell you a couple things, and then we'll get your

01:06:46.020 reaction.

01:06:47.000 She has weekly dinners with Jimmy Kimmel.

01:06:50.940 Jimmy Kimmel.

01:06:51.920 Now, who could forget Jennifer Aniston's attack on J.D.

01:06:57.160 Vance during the run-up to the November 2024 election for his childless cat lady's comment?

01:07:03.240 And she acted like the victim, how could you?

01:07:05.860 And also, you're trying to take IVF away, which was a lie, too, and I hope your daughter 0.95

01:07:11.320 never needs IVF care since you kind of cretins on the right want to take it away. 1.00

01:07:16.520 So she's a big woman's rights supporter, Maureen. 0.72

01:07:18.860 She never misses a chance.

01:07:20.360 It's Jimmy Kimmel, who literally starred in The Man Show, which for years was doing segments

01:07:28.060 like this one with the ladies.

01:07:29.540 Watch.

01:07:31.400 This is just a video.

01:07:33.180 For the listening audience, it's literally women in bikinis on trampolines, jumping up, 1.00

01:07:40.180 doing like the leg move where they go in splits in the air, and the camera is underneath them.

01:07:46.000 We can see up the dresses, and yeah, these are very fit ladies. 1.00

01:07:49.960 And this is the most mild of what you could get on The Man Show.

01:07:55.920 I got to say, none of which offends me.

01:07:57.900 There's a place for this kind of thing.

01:07:59.560 Like, that's fine.

01:08:00.340 But these are not my rules.

01:08:02.000 These are the left's rules, that you're not allowed to do this, or you're forever more a 0.52

01:08:05.760 sexist who should be canceled. 0.78

01:08:06.860 That's the man she's having weekly dinners with, Jimmy Kimmel. 0.94

01:08:11.540 And on top of that, another person who's usually there is Jason Bateman and his wife, Amanda.

01:08:18.800 And this weird exchange happens in the Vanity Fair piece in which they say Aniston is in

01:08:25.980 tune with her friend's kids, too.

01:08:28.620 Quote, she almost makes us parents look bad because she's so incredibly attentive and 1.00

01:08:32.460 consistent with her curiosity and warmth, says Jason Bateman, referring to Aniston's friendship

01:08:37.320 with his two daughters, who are 18 and 13.

01:08:40.400 She's the first one to call or text about big dates in the girls' lives.

01:08:43.280 She has questions about boyfriends.

01:08:45.240 Asked if she would qualify as an aunt, Jason Bateman replies,

01:08:49.180 aunts you might not see all the time.

01:08:51.160 She's almost closer to a co-mom with Amanda.

01:08:56.800 What in the actual F? 0.94

01:08:59.900 If Doug ever told Vanity Fair that I had a co-mom in my motherhood, I would probably punch him 1.00

01:09:07.920 hard in the gut and say, how could you have been so stupid and clueless and cruel? 1.00

01:09:13.800 That is quite the comment that he's making about his own wife in an effort to lick the 1.00

01:09:21.060 blessed boot of Jennifer Aniston, who this now brings me to your reaction, is still complaining 1.00

01:09:29.040 about her press coverage.

01:09:31.860 Notwithstanding the fawning, she's exquisitely maintained and she parties with Jimmy Kimmel

01:09:39.460 and she's like a co-mom, she's that attentive a friend.

01:09:42.620 And she's still whining and you get back to the ultimate whine that we heard from her 0.71

01:09:49.080 back in 2005.

01:09:50.340 You take it from here.

01:09:51.800 So this, I just, God, the Jennifer Aniston thing. 0.87

01:09:55.960 First of all, she's out in the media promoting her upcoming third or fourth season of The Morning

01:10:00.200 show on Apple TV, which I hate watching.

01:10:02.960 I hate watching.

01:10:03.440 I hate watching.

01:10:04.160 Cannot stand it.

01:10:06.200 Thank you.

01:10:06.720 That could have been such a great show.

01:10:08.640 That could have been a really juicy, meaty, substantial show.

01:10:13.140 Instead, it's terrible.

01:10:14.560 But in it, she plays what she thinks is a very serious journalist.

01:10:18.480 She's not.

01:10:19.220 I got news for you, Jen.

01:10:20.420 She's not.

01:10:20.980 And she's in the pages of Vanity Fair on the cover and this massive spread, which is

01:10:28.660 very Meghan Markle adjacent, right?

01:10:31.020 Like we're in fall downs doing gardening and getting dirt under our nails.

01:10:35.420 Okay.

01:10:35.700 Oh, boy.

01:10:36.260 Don't get us started.

01:10:37.920 Right?

01:10:38.480 Season two.

01:10:40.520 Anyway, back to Jen.

01:10:41.980 So she goes, she says, you know, she's asked about the height of the Brad, Angie, Jen love

01:10:47.940 triangle and the subsequent fallout.

01:10:50.200 And she says, you know, I just don't, I just don't understand it.

01:10:54.340 And I guess if people didn't have their little soap operas to occupy their tiny minds, we

01:11:00.140 gave them stuff in the tabloids.

01:11:02.020 And that to me is just such an F you to American audiences who have followed this woman and

01:11:08.400 loved her and taken up for her and made her wealthy and famous beyond her wildest dreams

01:11:14.080 and frankly, beyond her limited talents.

01:11:16.740 Truly, you know, we're not talking Elizabeth Taylor over here.

01:11:20.200 In terms of look, look, correct.

01:11:21.900 No street over here.

01:11:23.680 In terms of acting talent, she lucked into the greatest pot of gold one could luck into. 0.93

01:11:30.180 Just shut up and be grateful. 0.95

01:11:32.060 That's it. 0.99

01:11:32.640 Yes.

01:11:33.360 Yes.

01:11:33.640 Here's the exact quote.

01:11:35.340 This is her recalling the 2005 interview she gave to Vanity Fair.

01:11:39.920 So, you know, here we are 20 years later.

01:11:42.100 It was the first interview she gave after news of the divorce broke.

01:11:45.420 And she says in this current episode issue, it was such juicy reading for people.

01:11:51.120 If they didn't have their soap operas, they had their tabloids.

01:11:55.300 And of the media frenzy, she says, it's a shame that it had to happen, but it happened.

01:11:59.420 And boy, did I take it personally.

01:12:01.800 They were sort of building us up and then tearing you down, she says, before comparing

01:12:06.320 herself to a pinata.

01:12:07.700 They think you signed up for it, so you take it.

01:12:10.480 But we really didn't sign up for that.

01:12:12.500 You didn't?

01:12:13.440 How did she not sign up for that?

01:12:15.140 She was on the cover of Vanity Fair without her pants on and inside the spread without

01:12:22.080 her pants on.

01:12:23.140 And she was often without her pants on in the photo shoots she's done over the years and

01:12:27.680 has coveted attention and publicity with the best of them, Maureen.

01:12:32.360 You did sign up for it.

01:12:34.440 This is America.

01:12:35.820 You take the good with the bad when you willingly become a public figure.

01:12:41.160 100%.

01:12:41.720 And her marriage to Brad Pitt, it's the same when Carolyn Bissette was like,

01:12:45.140 I didn't realize marrying JFK Jr. meant I'd be a media target.

01:12:49.680 Hello.

01:12:50.400 Yes, you did.

01:12:51.580 You did.

01:12:52.620 Same with Jen Aniston. 1.00

01:12:53.740 You don't want that attention.

01:12:54.660 Don't marry Brad Pitt, biggest movie star on the planet, who, by the way, leveled her up

01:12:58.540 to the film career she was so desperate for when she was on Friends.

01:13:02.940 True.

01:13:03.740 And Meghan Markle, by the way.

01:13:05.280 Same exact thing.

01:13:07.160 Same thing.

01:13:08.740 You know, it's just, it's so rich to me.

01:13:10.200 And then she's bitching about the media while she's promoting a show in which she plays a 1.00

01:13:13.720 journalist on a morning show.

01:13:15.480 So we're media, media, media.

01:13:17.260 You know, you can't have it every way you want it.

01:13:19.420 You just can't.

01:13:20.800 The nerve of this woman to actually get that out there and say, oh, the people, like they 0.99

01:13:24.900 had their, if they didn't have their soap operas, they had their tabloids.

01:13:28.880 Okay.

01:13:29.120 So you are the one who put yourself in the public eye and cultivated and chased after

01:13:35.600 this kind of attention.

01:13:37.180 No one would be talking about you if you hadn't put yourself in the public eye, become an actress.

01:13:42.740 And on top of that, because there are actors out there who don't run around coveting extra

01:13:47.520 attention beyond their acting.

01:13:50.580 But she did.

01:13:51.680 She was in all the magazines.

01:13:52.940 She gave tons of interviews and did tons of magazine spreads, but gets upset when the 1.00

01:13:57.700 media coverage goes beyond what she's authorized.

01:14:00.220 That's not the way it works.

01:14:01.720 Just be grateful that there's interest.

01:14:03.920 That interest is why you have several multimillion dollar homes and cars and this luxury wardrobe

01:14:11.160 and why you keep getting cast in these movies. 1.00

01:14:14.120 So shut the fuck up. 1.00

01:14:15.560 No one wants to hear your complaints about how people like their tabloids and their soap 1.00

01:14:20.180 operas. 0.78

01:14:20.480 You're damn lucky they do.

01:14:21.780 That's why they find you mildly interesting. 0.80

01:14:25.520 Yes.

01:14:26.040 And the hypocrisy to complain about it.

01:14:27.660 Number one, to your point, Julia Roberts, when do you see her when she's not shooting

01:14:31.980 a movie?

01:14:32.300 You don't see her anywhere.

01:14:33.780 She's way more famous and beautiful than you, Jennifer Aniston.

01:14:37.820 Secondly, she talked recently.

01:14:39.800 I don't know if it was in the Vanity Fair piece or elsewhere, but that when, so the whole

01:14:44.320 Brad, Angie, you know, media frenzy, right?

01:14:47.780 She's offered her next role that she's offered is a movie called The Breakup.

01:14:51.780 The Breakup with Vince Vaughn.

01:14:53.540 Oh yeah.

01:14:54.040 Well, she did.

01:14:54.520 A long time couple breaking up and it was a comedy.

01:14:58.840 And she said her agent was a little bit wary because he thought, oh, this might be too

01:15:03.200 much of a tender spot.

01:15:04.120 But she thought, no, this is the next thing I do.

01:15:07.180 And she knew exactly what she was doing.

01:15:09.600 She knew by doing a film like that, she was going to be extending this narrative of her

01:15:14.520 as the jilted woman who, by the way, if you don't want to participate in tabloid media, 1.00

01:15:19.080 don't pose pantsless on the cover of Vanity Fair spilling your guts about how Brad and Angie

01:15:24.960 wronged you while looking like you're proving you're still ultra effable.

01:15:28.900 You cannot, like, this explains the boyfriend.

01:15:32.700 This, the lack of logic explains the boyfriend.

01:15:36.360 The boyfriend's, okay, we're doing him next, but I want to say something about Julia Roberts.

01:15:39.620 So yes, a thousand times yes.

01:15:41.240 And I'm not even particularly a Julia Roberts fan, but I respect how she's handled her private

01:15:45.540 life as a mega star by any measure.

01:15:49.100 Not only does she not suddenly get photographed at Starbucks like J-Lo manages to make happen

01:15:54.920 everywhere she goes, oh, J-Lo's in Italy, oh, J-Lo's in Paris, oh, J-Lo's where she's

01:16:01.160 on a yacht.

01:16:01.800 We've never not seen a vacation she's taken.

01:16:04.560 Gee, how does that happen?

01:16:06.040 And, um, but Julia Roberts, I remember reading a story about her. 0.98

01:16:09.720 She's the opposite of like a Kim Kardashian.

01:16:12.080 Somebody once got a photo of her kid and she was in her car with her kid, like dropping

01:16:17.920 her kid off at school.

01:16:19.220 And Julia Roberts got out of her car, stopped her car, got out of her car, went over to the

01:16:24.220 car, the paparazzo who was taking the photograph and knocked on the window and said, do not

01:16:29.480 publish that.

01:16:30.220 That's my child.

01:16:31.340 I have not made my, my child, a public figure, gave him, you know, read him the riot act

01:16:36.280 and the guy did not publish the photo.

01:16:38.880 Respect.

01:16:39.560 I have to say this is, I've done the same with my kids and there are not to compare myself

01:16:45.280 to Julia Roberts.

01:16:45.940 So she's truly a mega star, but I'm just saying there's a reason you've never seen Julia

01:16:50.040 Roberts kids in photos.

01:16:51.300 She makes sure that you don't, she doesn't use them to propel her own career. 0.90

01:16:56.760 So while she's not my personal favorite, I respect all of that.

01:17:00.020 And there's a way of being a mega star without cultivating that kind of attention.

01:17:04.400 Jennifer Aniston could take a lesson.

01:17:06.100 Okay.

01:17:06.580 Let's talk about the boyfriend.

01:17:08.580 So who is this guy?

01:17:10.460 He's a hypnotist and wellness guru.

01:17:14.440 He's a professional hypnotist.

01:17:16.860 He's not just an hypnotist.

01:17:18.720 Excuse me.

01:17:19.500 Excuse me.

01:17:19.980 I'm sorry to correct you.

01:17:21.720 No, his name is Jim Curtis.

01:17:23.620 He's this like good looking guy who's been bouncing around town forever.

01:17:27.340 And she started liking his stuff on Instagram.

01:17:31.400 And he wrote, he's written several books.

01:17:33.500 I ordered one off Amazon and I wish I had it with me.

01:17:36.700 It's called Shift Quantum Manifestations for like altering your consciousness.

01:17:42.120 And it's like a tiny little pamphlet of a book that has like a bunch of QR codes in it.

01:17:48.080 So you can go link to his app and put money in his pocket.

01:17:52.320 Sure.

01:17:52.660 And it's like work.

01:17:53.980 It's like inanities.

01:17:55.420 Like, um, here's, here's a page with like tons of lines.

01:17:58.400 There's a lot of white space in the book and a lot of really big font, uh, write down, uh, it changed the word money to energy.

01:18:07.980 And then write down how you think of money as energy.

01:18:12.340 It's, it's just like, it's none of it makes it.

01:18:14.480 Wait, we pulled a couple of thoughts from the nerve.

01:18:18.300 So I was driving my car listening to this.

01:18:20.980 I was laughing so hard, Maureen.

01:18:23.200 These are great finds by you.

01:18:24.860 This is why everyone should be watching and listening to the nerve.

01:18:27.760 And, uh, here's sample of Jen's new guy, pal.

01:18:33.560 Repeat after me.

01:18:34.800 I don't force.

01:18:36.140 I flow.

01:18:37.340 I am a magnet for abundance and love.

01:18:41.000 Repeat after me.

01:18:42.480 My dreams are already on their way to me.

01:18:45.460 I am a magnet and confident in my ability to receive.

01:18:49.860 Repeat after me.

01:18:50.480 I am resilient, capable, and ready to face whatever comes my way.

01:18:56.560 I release fear and step forward with confidence and trust.

01:19:01.200 Repeat after me.

01:19:03.060 Love comes easily to me because I am love.

01:19:06.720 I am loving and I am lovable.

01:19:10.520 Okay.

01:19:11.300 It's getting like serious, Stuart, smiley vibes.

01:19:14.860 Serious vibes, Maureen.

01:19:16.500 What, what inanity. 0.98

01:19:18.120 Truly, like, I am a magnet.

01:19:21.520 I am resilient.

01:19:23.420 I flow.

01:19:24.560 I flow.

01:19:25.560 That's how he got Jennifer Aniston.

01:19:26.880 Just saying he, he doesn't force.

01:19:28.620 He flows, Mo.

01:19:29.760 My favorite part of this too, is that, um, as to, uh, Jennifer Aniston's besties, uh,

01:19:36.780 Jimmy Kimmel and Jason Bateman, uh, whatever you can say about them. 0.99

01:19:40.440 They're not total idiots. 0.98

01:19:41.460 Like Jason Bateman is one of the most popular podcasts going. 0.99

01:19:44.340 Jimmy Kimmel hosts all manner of people and converses with them extemporaneously. 1.00

01:19:49.720 They got to sit at the weekly dinners at Jennifer Aniston's and listen to this asshole go on and on about manifesting shit. 1.00

01:19:57.940 You know, they're dying. 1.00

01:19:58.880 They're like texting each other under the table.

01:20:00.600 Like, you know, making fun of.

01:20:02.580 Oh my God.

01:20:03.680 Whenever I see something like this though, I've learned this.

01:20:05.980 This is like one of those things you learn a piece of wisdom, if you will, over the course of your life.

01:20:11.080 The people who are super, super into this stuff are the most unhappy people.

01:20:15.180 Like that's, they are the last people you should be taking advice from.

01:20:19.020 Truly, you should be taking advice from people who are busy and have thriving lives.

01:20:23.060 They, they may be tough to get it from because they're busy and have thriving lives.

01:20:26.700 But the last person you want to take advice from is somebody who's in the advice giving business on talking about flow.

01:20:34.660 I'm sorry.

01:20:35.360 I feel like Mel Robbins is in that group.

01:20:38.160 This guy's in that group.

01:20:39.720 They just sit around and try to think up profundities.

01:20:42.880 And why do they do that?

01:20:44.100 Generally, it's because they're depressed and they have to think of something to make themselves feel better.

01:20:49.560 And this is not the person you should turn to for making your life better.

01:20:53.180 I truly, I learned this the hard way.

01:20:55.980 It's so true. 0.84

01:20:57.040 And the other thing that I always find fascinating, Mel Robbins was coming out of a major depression when she struck on this self-help stuff.

01:21:03.780 She was in a ton of debt, like a ton of debt.

01:21:06.700 I don't even know how she racked up that amount of debt. 0.99

01:21:08.580 A shock.

01:21:09.620 She said she was drinking excessively.

01:21:11.400 You know, like, I'm going to listen to this woman who just came up, you know.

01:21:14.900 Right.

01:21:15.440 These are not people who have extensive education in, say, philosophy, great minds, great literature, sociology.

01:21:24.560 You know, I don't know where their credentials are nil.

01:21:28.800 They're zero.

01:21:29.600 And this guy.

01:21:29.960 No, if the credentials are all in the self-help field, run.

01:21:34.660 Run.

01:21:35.340 That's a problem, right?

01:21:36.700 It's not the same as taking advice from somebody who's actually accomplished something in the real world and then says, hey, this is something I've learned.

01:21:44.640 Take it or leave it.

01:21:45.900 People like this who are talking about flow are a problem.

01:21:50.240 It's just like it's a glaring.

01:21:52.100 I am a depressant.

01:21:53.720 I am unhappy.

01:21:55.600 I haven't been able to solve it.

01:21:57.280 And I'd like to talk to all of those of you who would like to be as unhappy as I am.

01:22:02.120 Truly. 0.99

01:22:02.560 And I also believe that none of this shit helps. 0.98

01:22:05.040 It actually doesn't help. 0.99

01:22:06.160 You should flush those books.

01:22:07.760 Tear those books up.

01:22:08.620 Throw them out the window.

01:22:09.780 Go for a run.

01:22:10.800 Get out in the sun.

01:22:12.440 Do something uplifting that will take your mind off of your problems.

01:22:16.040 And stop taking lectures on flow from hairy men.

01:22:19.920 Yes, and if you really are suffering from clinical depression or something that's treatment resistant, see a physician.

01:22:27.780 See a psychiatrist who can actually help you with that.

01:22:31.800 This is not the answer. 0.99

01:22:33.660 These people are charlatans. 0.98

01:22:35.700 Here's my Venmo. 0.99

01:22:36.860 That should be a red flag.

01:22:39.080 That's a problem.

01:22:40.480 Okay, so that's Jennifer, and good luck to her. 0.99

01:22:42.600 I want to talk about The Biggest Loser because there's a Netflix documentary out about this hugely popular show.

01:22:50.680 Maureen actually has a direct connection to this story, and we'll play you some sound bites, and we will go there right after this quick, quick break.

01:22:58.240 Maureen stays with us for the show.

01:22:59.480 Don't go away.

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01:23:58.540 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.

01:24:02.580 It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today.

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01:25:01.500 Welcome back to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:25:03.120 Here with me today, Maureen Callahan, host of The Nerve with Maureen Callahan.

01:25:08.080 I want to tell you that, just a programming note, today in the California courtroom, Eric Menendez is making the push to be, or I guess proceeding, to be paroled early.

01:25:20.300 And tomorrow, Lyle Menendez will make the same push.

01:25:23.360 Our friends over at MK True Crime include Mark Garagos, who's representing the Menendez brothers.

01:25:29.100 They're going to have a special episode tonight, which will drop tomorrow morning.

01:25:32.740 So go ahead and sign up for MK True Crime so you can hear all the coverage of whether these two guys are going to be released early from prison.

01:25:41.060 Maureen is against it.

01:25:42.380 If I'm talking to Marsha Clark, I'm against it.

01:25:44.960 If I'm talking to Garagos, he softens me up.

01:25:47.560 So it's tough. 0.98

01:25:50.780 I totally see your point of, like, this is like Justice by Kim Kardashian, like a stupid, made-up Ryan Murphy documentary winds up getting two kids out of prison, or they're not kids anymore, after a brutal murder where they were absolutely just completely awful. 0.97

01:26:08.440 I mean, the torture they put their parents through. 0.98

01:26:11.880 But the other side is they've served for a long time.

01:26:16.460 And I don't know if, like, do two people kill their kids or kill their parents if, like, their parents aren't totally awful?

01:26:24.100 Like, I believe Jose Menendez did molest them.

01:26:26.740 And Kitty Menendez, I don't know, she probably looked the other way. 0.87

01:26:29.380 I can see both sides.

01:26:30.880 Maureen, what do you think?

01:26:31.620 I was thinking about this again this morning, and what I can't get past are the following.

01:26:40.380 This was very premeditated.

01:26:42.400 I believe they purchased the weapons two weeks before.

01:26:47.420 They cooked up their alibi.

01:26:50.780 They were of age.

01:26:53.340 They could have left the house.

01:26:55.400 They could have pressed charges against the father or just had nothing to do with him.

01:26:59.280 They said that they killed the mother because she was an eyewitness to the murder, and she just had to go.

01:27:08.380 That was their stated reason.

01:27:10.240 I mean, I remember, I reread a lot of the Dominic Dunn coverage of this as well.

01:27:15.400 They said that night when the police came to investigate that they were both shocked that they weren't arrested that night, that there was so much physical evidence.

01:27:23.380 When the medical examiner went over to Jose Menendez's body, his brain fell out of his skull.

01:27:33.660 Oh, God.

01:27:34.760 The mother had been shot in the face, unrecognizable.

01:27:39.680 So this is my real thing, too. 0.64

01:27:42.520 If I am a victim of sexual violence at the hands of a parent, and I feel the only way I can get rid of this is to kill said parent, but I'm not in my soul and my heart a killer, I think that would torment me.

01:27:56.280 I think I would be out of my mind, and these two went shopping and kept telling lies, and I don't think that they felt remorse at all.

01:28:08.100 I think this was a planned crime.

01:28:11.520 It wasn't a hair trigger.

01:28:15.020 I feel my physical safety is immortal.

01:28:17.860 It wasn't any of that, and they continue to break the rules all the time in prison, which to me says those are criminal minds.

01:28:24.560 They're criminal minds, so I'm against it.

01:28:27.740 I think it's probably going to happen, but we'll follow it, and Mark Eregles will be on it along with our other legal panel tonight, so tune in.

01:28:35.740 Go ahead and download MK True Crime, and you will hear their thoughts, and he actually knows them and represents them, so you'll get first-hand analysis of it.

01:28:42.680 Okay, let's talk about The Biggest Loser.

01:28:44.840 There's a Netflix documentary on The Biggest Loser, a series I have to admit I never watched.

01:28:51.380 I never did watch.

01:28:52.340 Here's some of the trailer for the Netflix show.

01:28:56.580 I think it's Sot 6.

01:28:57.420 Whoever loses the most weight wins $250,000.

01:29:04.420 More than 10 million people watched the finale.

01:29:07.340 It was huge.

01:29:09.120 To see us in a gym yelling, screaming, that's good TV.

01:29:15.340 This is what America thinks is healthy and safe.

01:29:18.640 Being seen as a person and not just a body is much rarer for fat people.

01:29:26.360 Well, we're big.

01:29:27.440 The Biggest Loser was the best thing that ever happened to us.

01:29:29.440 It was.

01:29:29.900 We were not looking for people who were overweight and happy.

01:29:33.300 I'm a secret eater.

01:29:33.940 We were looking for people who were overweight and unhappy.

01:29:37.460 Maybe it would fix my marriage.

01:29:38.880 Maybe it would fix me.

01:29:39.920 I'll do anything to be on your show.

01:29:42.560 The Biggest Loser!

01:29:44.440 They were really reinforcing the stereotypes.

01:29:47.600 People like making fun of fat people.

01:29:49.580 And producers loved that. 0.99

01:29:50.860 They were like, we want them to puke.

01:29:54.400 We want the madness of it all. 0.92

01:29:58.140 Okay.

01:29:59.020 So your thoughts on this documentary and what comes out in it, which is, it's got the participation

01:30:06.200 of an executive producer, of the star, a couple of the stars there, not Jillian Michaels.

01:30:12.220 And they are pretty open about what went on on the set.

01:30:15.700 Your thoughts on it, though?

01:30:17.800 This is personal for me.

01:30:19.320 And we're going to address it on the mini on Saturday of The Nerve.

01:30:24.160 I wrote the first big expose of what really went on on The Biggest Loser.

01:30:30.220 And trust me when I tell you that expose caused so much alarm over at NBC, they wound up canceling

01:30:36.880 the show.

01:30:38.600 And this documentary, even the score of it is sort of like jaunty and like this is a piece

01:30:46.480 of entertainment.

01:30:47.120 People's lives were placed in serious, serious danger with the stuff they were pulling.

01:30:54.580 This wasn't just like we're doing some pranks, like fear factor style.

01:30:58.780 This was like people went to the hospital.

01:31:01.080 And we're going to talk about even what goes on when you're selected as what they called,

01:31:06.240 they called themselves losers, which the production always tried to spin as like, that's a positive

01:31:11.900 thing. 0.73

01:31:12.240 But I always found it really poignant because they were making fun of these people from the

01:31:16.340 beginning.

01:31:16.940 And they would get flown to L.A. and they would be put in these hotel rooms and their

01:31:20.560 phones would be taken from them and they would be isolated for days.

01:31:25.380 And, you know, there was at least one contestant who told me they got a message that a very

01:31:30.680 close relative was very, very sick in the hospital.

01:31:33.340 It was touch and go.

01:31:34.180 And they wanted to go home and producer said, feel free to leave.

01:31:38.440 But there's like 10 people behind you who are going to take your slot.

01:31:41.120 It was beyond, I think, evil.

01:31:45.540 And to watch these producers use this doc to try to spin it as a net positive that they

01:31:51.180 did for attitudes towards obesity and helping people lose weight.

01:31:55.560 By the way, my follow up to that original expose was called We're All Fat Again.

01:32:02.260 And it was that most of the biggest losers who had shed the weight, we're talking dropping

01:32:07.040 hundreds of pounds in the span of weeks, stuff that is medically completely against all best

01:32:13.700 advice.

01:32:14.760 They all gained the weight back and then some.

01:32:17.500 Mm-hmm.

01:32:18.260 Yes, I know.

01:32:19.400 And ironically, if they had just waited 10 years, they could have taken Ozempic and not

01:32:23.240 had to go through any of that.

01:32:25.260 Right.

01:32:25.540 It's like that there's really no reason to be 400 pounds in today's day and age.

01:32:30.300 There actually is this magic shot that is for people that look like that so that they can 1.00

01:32:35.060 get well on a more controlled basis, at least.

01:32:38.700 But I don't, like when I watched the series, because I knew we were going to be discussing

01:32:42.520 it.

01:32:42.700 I put it on this morning on my Netflix and was sort of running around doing my errands

01:32:46.500 watching it.

01:32:47.580 And my takeaway was some people really were hurt.

01:32:51.140 Like there was one woman who actually collapsed and had to be taken away by Medivac and she said

01:32:55.220 she died and was brought back.

01:32:58.280 And so it does sound like things got really out of control and they didn't always listen

01:33:01.900 to the medical advice that was given.

01:33:04.380 But I also was like, these people signed up for it.

01:33:08.000 I don't like, you know, reality show stars.

01:33:10.080 It's like, I'm of two minds.

01:33:12.620 It's like, now I'm watching all these Real Housewives sue Bravo and Andy Cohen for like

01:33:16.940 making them look bad and plying them with alcohol.

01:33:19.700 I'm like, you signed up to be a Real Housewife.

01:33:22.800 What did you think was going to happen?

01:33:25.620 This is so fascinating because this is a thread that we're continuing to follow on the nerve.

01:33:29.800 And I've been talking to a lot of people, you know, very smart, savvy people.

01:33:34.760 And one of them said to me something I thought was so profound.

01:33:39.720 And we don't talk about fame like this in the culture.

01:33:42.200 This person said, it's one thing to be addicted to drugs or alcohol.

01:33:47.540 It's completely something else to be addicted to fame.

01:33:50.140 And what happens to a lot of these people on reality TV is their brains get rewired.

01:33:56.960 And fame is as much of a dopamine hit as any kind of substance could ever be.

01:34:03.480 With these people too, the people who signed up for The Biggest Loser, you're getting one

01:34:09.220 bill of goods sold to you by production.

01:34:11.180 And then you get behind the scenes and they are, it is a psychological manipulation

01:34:16.160 from beginning to end.

01:34:19.340 And they say to them, they say to one contestant, like, you may not like these methods and you

01:34:26.160 may be collapsing and vomiting and having heart palpitations and thinking you're going to stroke

01:34:30.640 out.

01:34:31.280 But if you ever lost a hundred pounds on your own, are you losing weight now?

01:34:35.360 Well, then just, why don't you just stick with us?

01:34:37.420 You know, and these people suffered medical, like one woman told me she had stress fractures

01:34:43.800 in her feet from what they were making them do.

01:34:46.860 They were working them out like they were Navy SEALs.

01:34:48.760 These are obese people who had never really worked out.

01:34:52.180 Right.

01:34:52.740 It's dangerous.

01:34:53.860 It's dangerous.

01:34:54.620 I know.

01:34:55.080 Reality TV has spun out of control time after time.

01:34:58.360 And it's always the same formula.

01:35:00.080 It's always exploitative.

01:35:01.740 It's just, it makes me uncomfortable to watch.

01:35:03.820 I'll say something nice about somebody who works for us now.

01:35:08.100 You know this, but about a month or two ago, we hired Hope Hicks and she's the COO of my 0.98

01:35:15.220 company now, like the overarching company that oversees everything.

01:35:18.320 And Hope Hicks is like brilliant. 0.78

01:35:20.800 She's very savvy. 0.86

01:35:21.760 And she also happens to be stunningly gorgeous.

01:35:24.500 And unlike most people who you could say that about has zero interest in seeing her name

01:35:30.560 in print or her face on TV.

01:35:32.260 She, you've never met somebody who is so averse to fame, to the spotlight.

01:35:37.420 She just wants to do her job.

01:35:39.820 She just wants to be great at whatever she does. 0.65

01:35:41.480 And she does not want the spotlight.

01:35:43.100 It's so rare when you, when you find one of these unicorns, you're like, what is it?

01:35:47.260 I don't understand it.

01:35:48.320 No matter like, we're like, Hey, we should announce, you know, that you're coming on board.

01:35:51.140 She's like, Oh God, let's just put like a small item out there at best, at most, you

01:35:54.420 know, she's Hope Hicks. 1.00

01:35:55.600 She could have had like a cover of some magazine. 0.94

01:35:58.200 They'd love to talk to her about her life and so many interesting things about her, but

01:36:02.920 I respect it.

01:36:03.980 You know, but you're right.

01:36:05.020 Like with a civilian who's already struggling with a weight issue or whatever issue gets

01:36:09.620 her on, let's say Real Housewives, there is a drug waiting there of attention and clicks 1.00

01:36:15.540 and for the dopamine hit of feeling better about yourself for one second as the episode

01:36:20.440 airs, or you get a, you know, a blog post that's favorable about you.

01:36:25.520 And you have to be very centered and strong to like withstand that lure when you realize

01:36:31.720 the thing I'm doing, that's getting that for me is bad for me.

01:36:35.000 So you're raising a good point.

01:36:36.400 All right.

01:36:36.540 We have to end it on a more fun note because you've also been taking aim at Sarah Jessica 0.57

01:36:41.500 Parker and her reboot of sex in the city, which is called, and just like that.

01:36:46.400 And you have been hate watching this series.

01:36:48.220 I couldn't tell whether you were happy it ended or sad it ended because you were enjoying

01:36:51.960 the hate watch or you realized it, I mean, it was such a terrible show.

01:36:54.620 It had to go.

01:36:55.460 It was the very annoying woke reboot of a show that was not woke in any way, but now 0.65

01:37:02.200 everyone's trans or a lesbian or non-binary or in bed with the terrible Rosie O'Donnell,

01:37:07.660 which was jarring enough.

01:37:09.960 And you have been mourning the end of it on the nerve.

01:37:14.060 Let me play Sat 9D.

01:37:15.300 Troublemakers, we gather here today to mourn.

01:37:25.440 Actually, it's a celebration, a celebration of bad art that we're all going to be freed

01:37:31.760 from immediately.

01:37:33.440 It's a true nerve ending.

01:37:35.380 The cultural abomination that is, and just like that, has been taken out back and shot 1.00

01:37:42.680 finally.

01:37:44.120 For our proceedings today, I have come with the smallest bouquet of dried flowers, which

01:37:51.960 I think is our sprightly 900-year-old heroine.

01:37:57.220 And I'm going to light an in-memoriam candle from our remaining fucks matchbook. 0.96

01:38:06.520 Safety first. 0.95

01:38:11.860 Well, this light is the metaphor for this show, right?

01:38:15.300 It's not lighting properly.

01:38:20.260 Then you went out there.

01:38:21.780 I got to show this to the audience. 0.96

01:38:23.900 Sarah Jessica Parker wore this ridiculous hat on her show. 0.99

01:38:29.380 And you spoofed this. 0.99

01:38:31.520 You spoofed this with your hat. 0.98

01:38:34.620 I don't know which one is more ridiculous, but it's amazing that they thought, 0.96

01:38:39.040 she's so stylish, we can literally put like a pizza parlor hat on her head, like a picnic 1.00

01:38:43.940 basket.

01:38:45.300 Cloth on her head, and call it fashion. 1.00

01:38:49.140 So you did what you do, which is great, and calling out absurdity when you see it.

01:38:53.680 So your thoughts on the demise of this show, and why it happened rather quickly.

01:38:58.820 First, may I say, I do believe that the spoofs that you and I have done have truly unleashed

01:39:04.060 an inner actress that I did not know was in there.

01:39:07.600 I believe so, too.

01:39:09.280 Right?

01:39:10.460 Yes.

01:39:10.820 It's been so much fun.

01:39:12.680 I don't know what I'm going to do now that this show is over.

01:39:15.300 Like, where will I find my artistic expression?

01:39:18.740 I don't know.

01:39:19.220 Well, there's the Kamala Harris tour.

01:39:21.580 Oh, yes.

01:39:22.760 Yes.

01:39:23.660 And Meghan Markle part two, of course.

01:39:26.340 But I don't know if I'm happy or sad.

01:39:28.640 You know what I really, really, really think was one of the death knells?

01:39:31.160 When Cynthia Nixon went on her social media, on her boat in Montauk, or a boat in Montauk,

01:39:38.400 with her red MAGA cap that said, Make Abortion Great Again, I think that was it.

01:39:44.160 They were done.

01:39:44.900 Oh, it was awful.

01:39:47.040 It was like, nobody wanted a woke reboot of this series at all, but they leaned so far

01:39:52.220 into it.

01:39:52.640 And now, Maureen, Sarah Jessica Parker is out there saying, there's a million ways to end

01:39:57.740 this that are easy and familiar and fun, but feel exploitative to us.

01:40:02.140 We felt this was the honorable thing to do.

01:40:05.760 Because they said, why end the show now in an interview with the New York Times?

01:40:08.340 And she said, because that's where the story ended.

01:40:11.060 And this is a lie.

01:40:12.540 She did not want the show to be canceled.

01:40:14.940 She did not want to be, she wasn't worried about being exploitative.

01:40:20.740 She would have loved to have been exploitative of the audience and the attention she was getting, 1.00

01:40:25.980 but they pulled the plug.

01:40:27.420 So is this or is this not true, what she's saying, which is she chose to end it because

01:40:33.580 that's where the story ended.

01:40:35.520 We could have kept it going, but this was the honorable thing to do.

01:40:40.640 First of all, I just, she's so precious.

01:40:43.120 Like you never read an interview with her where she's just lighthearted and funny and can like

01:40:47.360 laugh at something, let alone herself.

01:40:49.700 So it's always, it's becoming increasingly uncomfortable and insufferable to listen to her.

01:40:55.220 Radar Online reported in the immediate aftermath of the announcement that, and just like that was

01:41:00.940 ending, that Sarah Jessica Parker, who I believe was the source for this story because they

01:41:05.260 referred to her as an icon and you know, all this stuff that she was furious, that she 0.94

01:41:10.540 was fuming and seething.

01:41:12.120 The quote was after all the money I've made them and that she was trying to take this and

01:41:17.120 shop it around to Amazon or Netflix, how she has the IP, this, this is HBO's, I don't

01:41:23.380 know, but it goes to show you the desperation, the disbelief.

01:41:28.260 And then she went on to say in that New York times, what I call an exit interview when she

01:41:32.620 was asked, what do you say to the, the longtime fans of sex in the city who followed you doing

01:41:38.400 just like that?

01:41:39.080 And we're heartbroken by what you guys did to the characters and hate watch the show.

01:41:43.580 What do you say to their complaints about quality control?

01:41:46.900 And she said, I guess I don't really care.

01:41:50.760 Right.

01:41:51.640 She did literally said, I don't care. 0.99

01:41:54.280 Okay.

01:41:55.500 That's why you're canceled.

01:41:56.820 That's why you're canceled.

01:41:58.360 Enjoy your unemployment.

01:41:59.460 I don't think anybody's going to hire you anytime soon because you have fused in a body horror

01:42:04.820 epic for the ages with this most terrible character of Carrie Bradshaw. 0.99

01:42:10.240 Yes.

01:42:11.020 I was looking at the ratings for this show.

01:42:13.600 It was averaging about $500,000, not dollars, 500,000 viewers per episode, which is unbelievable.

01:42:23.340 To me, that is nothing like, of course she's canceled.

01:42:26.920 We beat that by a lot every day here on the Megan Kelly show.

01:42:31.240 And we probably have one 20th the budget.

01:42:34.520 If that, I mean, our show is very cheap to produce.

01:42:37.340 I pay for my staff, but like we don't have all the wardrobe and all the other expenses

01:42:42.000 on set locations and all the whatever.

01:42:44.500 I've got a robo camp sitting in front of me.

01:42:47.160 I don't even have a live photographer here with me.

01:42:49.240 My point is, of course you're going to get canceled.

01:42:52.200 This is not economical.

01:42:54.540 Why would HBO keep something that's only earning half a million in audience each episode?

01:43:00.800 That's a joke, Maureen.

01:43:01.800 The nerve is easily closing in on that.

01:43:03.900 And you've been around for a few months.

01:43:05.800 What did she think was going to happen?

01:43:08.340 It's so wild to, you know, there's the economic part of it, which is just, you know, obvious

01:43:13.880 why HBO would cancel it, but it was also a laughingstock.

01:43:16.640 HBO is a brand that considers itself like the Tiffany network of premium cable, right?

01:43:23.260 Like that's where they want top talent to come and create television that you can't

01:43:27.620 find anywhere else.

01:43:28.860 And that is a huge, that it's a crime scene.

01:43:32.240 It's like a, it's a, it's a homicide over what they were doing over.

01:43:35.940 And it just like that. 0.96

01:43:36.780 And then Michael Patrick King, the showrunner who I believe is a misogynistic gay man. 0.95

01:43:42.000 I share your belief. 0.78

01:43:43.640 Thank you.

01:43:44.240 Uh, he went and gave an exit interview to the Hollywood reporter in which he said, you

01:43:49.360 know, we could have kept going as long as we wanted because the numbers were great.

01:43:54.120 Is that great?

01:43:55.560 What else is HBO getting with his other shows?

01:43:57.820 If that's great, I mean, I'd hate to see piss poor.

01:44:01.520 Is it?

01:44:02.060 And then, and then the final episode is such an F you to the viewers who really did try

01:44:07.300 to stick it out.

01:44:08.100 They showed, they showed, there is no reason to show this.

01:44:11.420 They showed an open toilet with human waste inside.

01:44:16.020 And it was basically, it was not a none too subtle.

01:44:19.060 This is what we think of you at HBO and all of you viewers who didn't get what we were doing

01:44:24.100 over here as the highest form of art.

01:44:26.340 Get out.

01:44:27.480 It's amazing that they didn't get what was happening in the culture.

01:44:31.100 They just didn't get that we're done with woke.

01:44:34.560 Even the normie Democrats are done with woke. 0.99

01:44:38.540 The last thing they want to see is fucking Rosie O'Donnell with her weird cold sores showing 1.00

01:44:46.160 up in bed with Cynthia Nixon. 1.00

01:44:49.580 Like these are leftist, far leftist heroines who are loathed by everyone on the right. 0.97

01:44:58.800 It's like saying, do we have that clip?

01:45:01.560 I think we might've pulled that clip.

01:45:03.780 Okay, here it is.

01:45:04.700 Here it is.

01:45:06.540 You are amazing.

01:45:08.640 Oh.

01:45:09.500 I have never experienced anything like that.

01:45:12.520 Oh God.

01:45:13.960 This is a nice way to wake up.

01:45:15.740 Oh, you are really, really something.

01:45:18.300 Oh my God, yes.

01:45:21.320 It felt so, I don't know, electric and yet still so natural.

01:45:27.820 I never dreamed my first time could be both those things.

01:45:32.800 First time?

01:45:34.240 Mm-hmm.

01:45:36.180 Okay.

01:45:37.100 I mean, truly, Maureen, this is such a middle finger to the right half of the country.

01:45:42.120 It had to be intentional.

01:45:43.740 Think of it.

01:45:44.200 When you think of far left activists who are, you know, woke Hollywood types, can you name

01:45:50.100 two more to the left than those two?

01:45:53.520 So they bring back the series.

01:45:55.200 They woke-ify it.

01:45:56.140 They bring in all the proper LGBTQ rainbow coalition, you know, actors.

01:46:01.360 They make people non-binary who weren't, you know, they excise Samantha, who was like the

01:46:09.020 most fun and least woke one.

01:46:11.140 She doesn't even get a role. 1.00

01:46:12.600 And then on top of it, they keep zeroing in on lesbian storylines that involve Cynthia 0.67

01:46:18.700 Nixon and Rosie O'Donnell. 0.97

01:46:20.820 F them.

01:46:21.620 This really was a huge, the whole show was a middle finger to the right half of the country.

01:46:25.540 It really was.

01:46:27.520 I mean, nobody wanted to see that.

01:46:28.960 And I remember watching that episode in real time, and they're sort of building up to this

01:46:33.380 like moment between Rosie O and Cynthia Nixon.

01:46:37.020 And literally, like, I think I was not alone with like my hand in front of my face.

01:46:41.040 Like, please don't, please don't do this to us.

01:46:43.940 Please do not show these two in bed.

01:46:45.760 And they did it.

01:46:47.160 They did it.

01:46:48.020 And the other thing that I thought was particularly reprehensible, and yet another example of Cynthia

01:46:53.640 Nixon forcing her personal politics and complete amorality into the show was towards the end 0.99

01:47:00.480 of this season, which they were truly opening up storylines and not shutting them down and

01:47:05.080 tying them up.

01:47:05.760 So again, lying, my opinion, SJP and her showrunner pal, Cynthia Nixon's son comes home and says,

01:47:14.440 listen, I got a girl pregnant and, you know, and she's visibly pregnant.

01:47:19.200 Like, she couldn't deny it.

01:47:20.500 She's visibly pregnant.

01:47:21.700 And the Cynthia Nixon character says, is she going to keep it?

01:47:25.140 Pause.

01:47:25.780 Oh, God.

01:47:26.660 Or give it up for adoption.

01:47:29.180 So to my mind, there's no interpreting that in any other way as is she going to have a late

01:47:34.500 term abortion?

01:47:35.540 And if not, do you think you could talk her into it?

01:47:39.200 Yep.

01:47:39.860 Yes, of course.

01:47:40.580 Why would we interpret any other way, given the hat that you point out went completely

01:47:45.380 viral?

01:47:45.980 And when it was so offensive, we thought at first it must be made up.

01:47:49.300 This must be Photoshop.

01:47:50.240 There's no way Cynthia Nixon, who has a career to maintain, would actually ever tweet out a 0.98

01:47:54.360 photo of herself wearing a hat that says, make abortion great again. 0.99

01:47:57.200 But she did. 0.98

01:47:58.000 That's how loathsome she's become. 0.96

01:48:00.280 By the way, she's going to be helping govern New York soon because she's a big mom, Donnie

01:48:04.840 backer, and he's threatening to put her and other people just like her in his cabinet. 1.00

01:48:11.080 But I don't know.

01:48:12.140 I feel like even the ending of the show, which, you know, spoiler alert for those of you who

01:48:16.960 don't want to hear this, it has Carrie wind up alone. 1.00

01:48:22.740 The season opens, the reboot opens with Mr. Big, who, when Sex and the City closed out,

01:48:28.760 she was marrying, you know, like, yay, like, I landed the guy I've been lusting after and

01:48:35.560 wanted and loved.

01:48:36.800 So she was marrying him.

01:48:40.300 Miranda was with Steve and they had Brady.

01:48:43.920 Charlotte was married.

01:48:44.960 Like, everybody was sort of like settling down and finding a partner.

01:48:48.700 Samantha had the young guy.

01:48:50.900 Anyway, now they reboot it and they kick it off by killing off Big.

01:48:54.840 Big is dead.

01:48:55.880 He's not just like gone or with a divorce.

01:48:58.120 He's dead.

01:48:59.240 And then she's got this relationship with Aiden that's toxic, whatever.

01:49:04.800 And it ends with her being alone.

01:49:06.740 Now, there's nothing wrong with being alone, but it does seem to be like a statement.

01:49:11.960 Now, like all these characters are either gone or non-binary or full lesbo and now totally 1.00

01:49:19.600 alone.

01:49:20.280 And there's that's that's my choice.

01:49:22.220 That's totally fine.

01:49:22.880 Although, how does she put it?

01:49:23.920 Like, I'm not alone.

01:49:25.420 I'm just not with anybody.

01:49:26.880 I don't know how she put it.

01:49:27.600 But like, it does seem to be a, oh, we've revisited the message we sent with that last

01:49:32.680 finale that like marriage is good and creating a family is good.

01:49:37.560 We've seen the error of our ways.

01:49:39.760 There's so much here.

01:49:42.320 You know, I always thought that the Mr. Big character was written as like the original

01:49:46.600 Toxic Bachelor.

01:49:47.420 He was based on a real guy, like a titan of publishing, magazine publishing.

01:49:53.200 And I always thought when watching the original Sex and the City, he should have been out of

01:49:56.640 the frame by season two, three at the absolute latest.

01:50:00.220 That guy was never going to marry a Carrie Bradshaw.

01:50:02.540 He was going to marry a Natasha who he later would have divorced, having been caught on

01:50:07.420 page six with multiple influencers, one of whom he would have gotten pregnant.

01:50:12.700 Carrie would have inherited nothing. 0.99

01:50:15.240 And the actual message should have been that Carrie would realize she was in one of the

01:50:19.120 most unhealthy romantic relationships possible.

01:50:22.560 That this guy, she was a convenience for him.

01:50:25.080 That's what she was.

01:50:26.020 And marrying her off to him, I always thought was such a betrayal of what really could have

01:50:32.580 been a very, very interesting story about, you know, and then the other thing to this

01:50:36.420 idea that she's some great writer.

01:50:38.120 She's like a hack. 1.00

01:50:39.300 She's a sex writer for the local penny saver, you know? 0.97

01:50:43.660 And so it's fine to wind up, as you said, with a single woman on her own. 1.00

01:50:50.340 I think Mary Tyler Moore ended up that way, you know, but it wasn't earned.

01:50:54.980 It wasn't earned.

01:50:56.020 Because she was just basically flinging herself at any guy in her vicinity or from her past

01:51:02.860 when it clearly wasn't working out.

01:51:04.780 And it really felt like, I just don't buy it.

01:51:07.460 Because if this were going to go to a season four, the Carrie character would be newly coupled 1.00

01:51:12.860 up with some other guy.

01:51:14.500 She's just not wired that way.

01:51:16.800 I will tell you something.

01:51:17.860 Now, you know, in my 50s, a more interesting storyline would have been Big is Still Alive.

01:51:24.040 And they've bumped into the following problem, which thank God I do not have in my marriage.

01:51:30.800 But I have seen now in more friendships than I'd like to say.

01:51:34.840 The man is the one who has the midlife crisis, not the one, not the woman. 0.99

01:51:41.360 The man has the midlife crisis.

01:51:42.700 It's not like a new sports car that he that he needs.

01:51:46.980 It's some woman who says, I'm going to do all the fun things with you. 1.00

01:51:51.940 It's the woman who did not bear his children. 0.87

01:51:54.040 And she may or may not be younger than he is.

01:51:55.940 But she's offering the allure of the 25-year-old him that used to exist now that he's in his

01:52:02.420 mid-50s.

01:52:03.180 And he feels like he sacrificed something by taking care of his family and like working

01:52:07.660 a real job that put food on the table.

01:52:09.420 But now he's bitter and resentful about it and chooses somebody who's, again, may or may

01:52:15.220 not be younger, but but offers the promise of like lost youth that he feels robbed of. 1.00

01:52:20.780 It's fucking ridiculous and pathetic. 1.00

01:52:23.800 And I'm sorry to say I keep seeing this as a repeat storyline. 1.00

01:52:28.940 And I'm that would have been a much more fruitful place to go and to see what a modern

01:52:34.440 day couple would do with kids, by the way.

01:52:37.760 What what would that modern day couple do when that dynamic presents itself as opposed

01:52:43.440 to, I don't know, maybe Big had to be killed off because he got didn't Chris

01:52:46.860 Knopf get a Me Too allegation against him at the time.

01:52:50.740 I'm not sure.

01:52:51.620 I don't remember.

01:52:52.260 But there's something around him.

01:52:54.340 That yeah, he was Me Too'd after they decided to kill the character off.

01:52:58.100 I remember hearing about this from someone who would know years and years ago that SJP

01:53:02.200 was fuming at Kim Cattrall for refusing to come back for a third version of the film

01:53:07.000 and that her plot was to kill Big off because that was the only way she could see moving

01:53:11.760 the story ahead.

01:53:12.660 But because you and I are like smart, creative people, we can come up with any number of

01:53:16.940 storylines that would be even better.

01:53:19.020 Two off the top of my head.

01:53:20.800 Big, as the financial genius he is, like he's like a Jamie Dimon, is recruited by the Trump

01:53:26.620 administration to be a top level cabinet pick and Kerry becomes a social pariah. 1.00

01:53:32.600 And or Big is indicted on insider trading and he's guilty of it.

01:53:40.080 And he's not only Me Too'd, but he's potentially around an Epstein level cabal.

01:53:45.860 Yeah.

01:53:46.340 There's a million ways you could go with this and give me some high stakes.

01:53:50.560 That was my one complaint about the third edition of White Lotus is they made that dad

01:53:56.100 who had the Duke family.

01:53:57.640 They all went to Duke.

01:54:00.160 He was in some sort of financial trouble.

01:54:02.620 He had done some sort of financial shenanigans in the series.

01:54:05.280 And they show him obsessing over it and constantly on the phone and taking drugs to like get his

01:54:09.780 mind off of it.

01:54:10.700 Like I actually wanted to know more.

01:54:12.820 What did he do?

01:54:13.900 What's going to happen to him?

01:54:15.140 I feel like financial fraud is actually really interesting.

01:54:18.320 And everyone wonders like on what level is it happening?

01:54:21.840 How many fortunes are being made around me that are that are illicit?

01:54:25.600 You know, there were that are ill gotten gains.

01:54:28.120 It was it was, you know, fodder.

01:54:29.860 They left untouched for artistic reasons, but I would have liked to see a little bit

01:54:33.480 more.

01:54:34.440 And yeah, they didn't do anything like that.

01:54:35.880 I mean, they were just determined to prove to the world how sorry they were that they

01:54:40.360 didn't have more black and pride characters in the OG sex in the city.

01:54:46.200 And, you know, Sarah Jessica Parker, this show, I do believe existed as a monument to her

01:54:51.500 ego because she's living out of her fantasy life. 0.99

01:54:54.180 She's like got almost a billion dollars. 1.00

01:54:56.840 She has a Gramercy Park mansion.

01:54:58.160 She's super fabulous. 0.96

01:55:00.300 She's always being told she's fabulous.

01:55:02.480 I think the most beautiful member of that cast was the the actress Nicole Ari Parker.

01:55:08.620 She's one of the black women they brought on to sort of, you know, racialize the show. 1.00

01:55:13.520 And they constantly dressed her to look like a clown. 1.00

01:55:17.540 Her storylines were always siloed away from the other three women, most especially Sarah

01:55:22.100 Jessica Parker, who I believe was extremely threatened by this woman.

01:55:26.100 And she's she's the stories are legion about her being a nightmare.

01:55:30.100 They're legion.

01:55:31.100 I am team Kim Cattrall all day long.

01:55:33.820 Did Kim Cattrall come back for any portion of this reboot?

01:55:37.520 So she was offered.

01:55:39.600 So she came back for a cameo in season two. 0.96

01:55:42.140 And here's how they got her.

01:55:43.380 They said, we'll give you a million dollars for like 30 seconds of screen time.

01:55:47.200 And she said, I'll take it if you make sure that I am not on the set with any of these

01:55:53.400 women, that I don't have to have any kind of interaction with them. 1.00

01:55:57.000 We shoot it to two different cameras.

01:55:59.060 So they shot her in the back of a limousine.

01:56:01.760 What am I, 80?

01:56:02.680 A limousine on the phone, on the phone with SJP, but never face to face, never face to face.

01:56:11.200 No way.

01:56:12.520 Well, it's also very ironic, right?

01:56:15.120 Because I think Sarah Jessica Parker prides herself on being like this pro woman. 1.00

01:56:19.540 You know, she's a modern day feminist. 1.00

01:56:21.340 It's like, then why would you be partnering with that Michael Patrick King?

01:56:24.720 And I heard you point this out and I thought it was equally offensive. 0.86

01:56:28.520 Like the ejaculate, like getting all over Charlotte in the one episode. 0.76

01:56:34.620 It's like there are so many demeaning moments to women in his work product. 0.88

01:56:39.560 Like, if you're all about that, why are you partnering with him?

01:56:42.820 Why are you allowing scenes like that?

01:56:44.720 Those things actually really are diminishing.

01:56:48.080 So is it fine if it's padding your pocket or how, what is the ethical standard?

01:56:54.100 I actually think that she is, she's a very mean, unhappy woman. 1.00

01:56:58.680 I mean, the character that was forced to make the prat fall into the condom filled with ejaculate was Charlotte, played by Kristen Davis, who is also considered one of the true beauties of the show.

01:57:10.900 And I think that SJP gets off on punishing them, you know, in the final or the first Sex in the City movie, the plot line for Samantha was she was so happy in L.A. coupled up with her much younger, gorgeous, successful boyfriend that she allowed herself to gain five pounds.

01:57:29.020 And when she shows up in New York, the Sarah Jessica Parker character reacts with horror.

01:57:35.260 And the rumored reported reason that Kim Cattrall wanted nothing to do with this reboot was the storyline that her character would have had to endure was that Miranda's then teenage son, Brady, had begun a sexting relationship with a 50 something Samantha. 0.90

01:57:52.500 And Samantha, to put it delicately, did not have a problem with it.

01:57:56.560 Wow. Good for Kim Cattrall. 1.00

01:58:00.400 I mean, even the left wing press has got headlines out right now in the cancellation of this thing saying the big winner is Kim Cattrall.

01:58:08.380 The big winner of the reboot is Kim Cattrall for not playing, for not participating and not letting this touch her brand. 0.85

01:58:15.180 She's like the original Samantha is preserved in her, you know, bright blue tight dresses. 0.76

01:58:21.640 And that's how we wish her to remain.

01:58:23.780 Well, Maureen, I thank you for calling my attention to this.

01:58:26.120 I'm only sorry I didn't miss it.

01:58:28.440 I have one other question for you.

01:58:30.680 Have you watched on, I think it's on Netflix, who knows where we watch it anymore?

01:58:35.720 Like you get to the home screen of your TV and now there's a search button and you type in the name of the movie that's been recommended to you.

01:58:43.300 And it pops up and then you don't know what app you're watching it on.

01:58:45.980 But in any event, it is called The Better Sister.

01:58:48.280 Have you seen this?

01:58:50.220 The Better Sister.

01:58:51.260 Okay, I think I've seen the first episode.

01:58:53.380 Julianne Moore's in it? 0.99

01:58:55.020 No, it's Jessica Biel and Elizabeth Banks.

01:59:01.420 Okay, yes, I saw the first.

01:59:02.680 So tell me, should I be watching this?

01:59:04.720 So I'm only two episodes in.

01:59:07.220 It's like a thriller.

01:59:08.360 And so far, I have to say, very much enjoying it.

01:59:11.140 Though, of course, it's a little woke.

01:59:12.880 Jessica Biel's character is like an Anna Wintour, except she's just fierce and leftist. 0.99

01:59:19.240 She's not mean, which is like they took all the fun things out of Anna and made her just into like this woke warrior.

01:59:25.700 But so whatever.

01:59:27.120 People are used to watching wokeness to that extent.

01:59:29.880 It's mild on TV.

01:59:31.740 But it's about whether she kills her husband, who you find out very early in the series, is dead on the floor one night as she walks home.

01:59:40.480 And so far, I'm into it.

01:59:41.580 I like a thriller.

01:59:43.140 I'm into like, I love all those old thrillers.

01:59:45.020 I think like one of the best movies I've ever seen.

01:59:48.140 I love Jagged Edge.

01:59:49.800 I love What Lies Beneath.

01:59:52.280 That's a great one with Michelle Pfeiffer.

01:59:56.280 Fatal Attraction.

01:59:57.340 I don't think there's anything better.

01:59:58.740 I just absolutely loved that movie.

02:00:01.800 I only wish my kids were old enough for me to show it to them because it's just so gripping.

02:00:05.700 They're not.

02:00:06.500 It's going to take another 15 years. 0.99

02:00:08.700 Anyway, I love that crap. 0.99

02:00:10.020 And they've moved on. 0.99

02:00:11.580 In modern day Hollywood, from the great thriller. 0.98

02:00:14.880 You know, now all we have is fucking Marvel, which is great for the 13-year-old boys, but not for we women who want a real story. 0.98

02:00:24.260 Yes, I would take a romance, too. 0.98

02:00:25.960 I like a romantic comedy.

02:00:27.740 Same.

02:00:27.960 I just showed Yardley, the movie, My Best Friend's Wedding.

02:00:32.680 Speaking of Julia Roberts, that was fun. 1.00

02:00:34.840 Did she like it?

02:00:35.360 Cameron Diaz.

02:00:36.300 Yeah, she was like, this isn't going to necessarily win an Oscar, but it's just sort of a fun two hours of like, you know, romantic comedy.

02:00:44.120 It's a great rom-com.

02:00:46.180 It is.

02:00:46.760 It really is.

02:00:47.540 And the thriller needs to come back.

02:00:50.360 It desperately needs to come back.

02:00:52.440 You're so right.

02:00:53.420 Every movie you just listed, and I haven't seen Jagged Edge, but you're talking like 1980s.

02:00:59.640 No, I know, I have holes, but like the thrillers in the 80s were so great.

02:01:05.160 I don't know what was in the water supply, but homicidal maniac, like it was, but like really well-groomed, successful homicidal maniacs, like presumed innocence the same way.

02:01:16.300 Oh my God, one of the greatest movies ever made.

02:01:18.360 And the series was awesome, too.

02:01:20.220 It was.

02:01:21.340 It really was.

02:01:22.280 I couldn't tell what was going to, who did it, you know?

02:01:25.960 I know.

02:01:26.200 But it was one, too, right?

02:01:27.380 Because they gave him a, there was a mixed marriage.

02:01:29.420 The reboot was woke.

02:01:30.980 Totally, it was.

02:01:31.980 But I mean, I love Scott Turow.

02:01:33.340 I love anything Scott Turow has written or taught.

02:01:35.240 She's totally brilliant.

02:01:37.200 And his books, too, are a little woke.

02:01:38.940 He, you know, he hates Republicans, and he writes about it in there.

02:01:41.140 I guess if you love the artist enough, you forgive them.

02:01:43.740 I mean, personally, I'm not a Stephen King fan because I don't like horror.

02:01:47.360 I like mild horror.

02:01:48.580 I don't like the deeply disturbing horror, like an it.

02:01:51.440 I like that stuff.

02:01:52.560 I can't sleep at night.

02:01:53.620 But I recognize the guy's a genius.

02:01:54.980 I just, he's so anti-Trump.

02:01:58.040 I can't consume him anymore.

02:01:59.520 You know what I mean?

02:01:59.880 It's like, I can't really enjoy his work product because all I think about, Robert

02:02:03.440 De Niro is kind of getting there, too.

02:02:06.080 We're like, I just see him and I think about his politics, which I don't want.

02:02:09.880 I know.

02:02:10.080 But I wanted to mention, I like the movie, two other movies that are good back from the

02:02:14.440 80s, 90s, on the thriller front, Sleeping with the Enemy.

02:02:18.940 That was also Julia Roberts. 0.99

02:02:19.720 Yes, saw it in the theater.

02:02:21.040 Very good.

02:02:22.500 And I've gone through this before on the show, trying to think of the name of this movie.

02:02:27.820 Alec Baldwin, Nicole Kidman, Malice.

02:02:31.740 I think it's called Malice.

02:02:33.460 Yes.

02:02:33.640 So, Anne Bancroft makes a cameo.

02:02:36.340 She's great.

02:02:37.460 I love that one.

02:02:39.600 Alec Baldwin, before he got ruined in Hollywood.

02:02:43.520 Height of his powers.

02:02:44.920 Nicole Kidman, a young Nicole Kidman, super talented, looked unlike anybody else in Hollywood. 0.94

02:02:51.160 He's like a psychopathic doctor, right?

02:02:53.560 Yes. 0.97

02:02:54.340 And it's a slow reveal.

02:02:55.940 Alec Baldwin, I know all about Alec Baldwin and what has happened to him, but he was

02:03:01.480 absolutely gorgeous at the height of his fame and success and did that sort of like controlled,

02:03:10.120 like tortured, you know, mildly irritated role very well.

02:03:15.380 Like he was strong in Hunt for Red October and in this movie too, Malice, he was great.

02:03:19.660 He, you know, kind of got like, I don't know why, how the people get like weird and corrupted

02:03:23.780 later.

02:03:24.420 Like they let their politics take hold of them and then they let it show.

02:03:28.920 So you forget, you know, you forget about like the fact that you're just supposed to

02:03:33.300 be acting and inhabiting a character and making people forget that you're Alec Baldwin.

02:03:36.740 You know, like you put yourself too out there with your politics and you take that away from

02:03:40.100 people.

02:03:40.440 But anyway, I loved Alec Baldwin at the height of his fame and Billy Baldwin to his credit

02:03:45.340 also hates Trump.

02:03:46.740 But Maureen, he came on the show when he was pushing his initiative against fentanyl.

02:03:53.900 It was fentanyl awareness day and he did a documentary on it.

02:03:58.580 And you know, a lot of lefties won't come on the show because they know we're not, but

02:04:02.940 he did.

02:04:03.740 And he's still out there constantly attacking righties and that's fine.

02:04:06.320 Like that's the thing people don't understand.

02:04:08.020 Like I, you are welcome on the show if you had to have a divergent view from my own, as long 0.99

02:04:13.200 as you want to say it respectfully and you're not like a complete asshole, I'll hear you 0.99

02:04:17.720 out here. 0.99

02:04:18.260 And he seemed to have the same attitude.

02:04:20.060 So he's a good Baldwin.

02:04:21.080 And then there's Stephen Baldwin, who's probably our favorite Baldwin of all.

02:04:24.620 You know, it's so funny you say that because your show is like, it's anybody who listens

02:04:30.060 knows you're not inviting people in to sort of tear them down.

02:04:35.000 Like you treat your guests like they're guests in your home, you know, and you're looking

02:04:39.100 to have a conversation, but you're not out to spank them or do a gotcha to Alec.

02:04:46.880 You know what?

02:04:47.380 He was so good at and this, I relate to this as an Irish American who knows these guys

02:04:53.980 well, controlled rage.

02:04:56.260 He's so good at controlled rage.

02:04:59.240 And it's one of the things that made him so funny as this is the, this I think is the

02:05:03.220 last best Alec Baldwin we ever got as Jack Donaghy in 30 Rock.

02:05:08.440 I mean, he would make me laugh out loud.

02:05:12.220 And he had that.

02:05:13.500 He's so funny.

02:05:14.900 He is such, like not all dramatic actors can do comedy and vice versa, but he was so, it's

02:05:20.300 such a shame what happened to him.

02:05:22.620 What if you had to recommend something more, like forget the genre, it could be any genre,

02:05:26.820 but like what comes to mind when I say, what is the best thing you've ever seen?

02:05:30.700 Like what a movie or a series, a TV show, like what is the best bit of entertainment

02:05:36.360 you've ever taken in on the screen?

02:05:38.980 I'm going to tell you two.

02:05:40.040 And they're both old movies.

02:05:41.240 One, Laura with Jean Tierney.

02:05:43.180 It's a Manhattan noir.

02:05:44.880 I think I've seen this movie 25 times and it's so good, Megan.

02:05:49.480 And it's so absorbing.

02:05:51.220 Every time I watch it, I always forget who the killer is.

02:05:54.420 Oh, don't tell me.

02:05:55.580 I won't.

02:05:56.100 I don't even remember.

02:05:57.140 And number two, now Voyager with Bette Davis, way ahead of its time.

02:06:01.960 Also super absorbing.

02:06:04.120 I think you'll love both.

02:06:05.280 I think both are way up your alley.

02:06:07.180 Oh, great.

02:06:07.980 I love the tip.

02:06:09.500 I mean, I will say-

02:06:10.220 And I will get on the other sister. 0.75

02:06:12.020 Or the better sister. 0.96

02:06:12.820 For me, the better.

02:06:13.640 We don't know which one is better yet.

02:06:15.060 But I will say for me, it is the BBC's Pride and Prejudice with Colin Firth, Jennifer Eel.

02:06:25.340 There's no substitute for the six-volume set.

02:06:27.900 I have it in VHS.

02:06:29.860 That's how long ago I've been watching this.

02:06:32.320 In the 1990s when I first moved to New York.

02:06:35.280 And I love it so much.

02:06:37.360 I love the character development.

02:06:38.720 I love what Jane Austen did.

02:06:40.020 But I love how the BBC brought it to life.

02:06:41.480 And the actors they cast are perfect.

02:06:43.640 And just the buildup of how these two hate each other in the beginning.

02:06:48.380 But the underlying sexual tension.

02:06:51.500 And then, you know, how they develop the relationship between them.

02:06:54.480 Is just so well done.

02:06:56.080 And if you can spare six hours, you know, they take the time to actually develop it.

02:07:00.960 There's no shortcuts at all.

02:07:03.440 You can see how they get past absolute loathing to love in each episode.

02:07:09.820 In each small increment.

02:07:11.440 And I just love it.

02:07:12.560 I love anything Jane Austen.

02:07:14.060 But in particular, that rendering.

02:07:16.660 So, okay.

02:07:17.380 There we go.

02:07:17.860 We've given everybody their assignment for the weekend.

02:07:19.720 And I feel like we've done some good here today.

02:07:23.020 Agreed.

02:07:23.480 And Pride and Prejudice is now on my list.

02:07:25.300 And we can reconvene and talk about, you know, our movie experiences.

02:07:29.620 I mean, yeah, it could be, at some point, it could be a reenactment, Maureen.

02:07:34.380 I'm just throwing it out there.

02:07:35.500 We'll see.

02:07:35.860 My quote's gone up, Megan, since space.

02:07:39.460 Just know that.

02:07:44.080 Whatever it is, you're worth it.

02:07:45.660 Steve Krakauer.

02:07:46.600 Thanks.

02:07:47.620 Get on that.

02:07:48.780 All right, ladies. 0.98

02:07:49.420 See you soon.

02:07:50.300 Bye, Megan.

02:07:51.660 All right.

02:07:52.020 Don't forget.

02:07:52.460 Go to thenerveshow.com.

02:07:54.780 And that will give you all the places you can subscribe and follow Maureen.

02:07:57.640 And you really should do it.

02:07:58.560 She's so entertaining, as you can see.

02:08:00.100 And just, she's like her, she is like her literary and book and movie and TV recommendations

02:08:06.780 in that she understands like this sort of, I don't know, cultural interest that we have

02:08:12.780 in all things around us, whether it's the Hollywood set or relationships, crime, whatever.

02:08:20.600 But like her recommendations, she's elevated.

02:08:23.220 You know, like the books she's recommended to me are literary.

02:08:26.320 You know, there's like commercial fiction, then there's literary fiction.

02:08:29.120 That's what Doug reads.

02:08:30.140 He's more highbrow because he's very, very well read.

02:08:33.220 But Maureen, she's got this nice slice of the conversation, the national conversation.

02:08:39.880 That's both.

02:08:41.420 And I have to tell you, it's very appealing to me.

02:08:44.480 My staff over on one of the places I used to work used to refer to me as high-low because,

02:08:51.180 you know, I have this weird life where I'll be potentially hanging out with a president

02:08:54.700 one weekend and then I will be like riding a big truck, you know, the next weekend or

02:09:00.300 I'll be doing absolutely nothing and sitting there in my, with my top ponytail and my sweatpants

02:09:06.040 eating something bad for me and watching bad TV.

02:09:08.880 I like, I just, that's who I am.

02:09:10.900 I'm, I'm a normal middle-class girl who now wound up in this weird life and sometimes has

02:09:16.060 good opportunities, but I've never lost my interest in that kind of entertainment and

02:09:21.520 those kinds of trappings.

02:09:22.620 And I just think it's human, it's human, but it's wonderful to have it delivered by someone

02:09:27.380 who is as smart and well-read and exposed as Maureen, right?

02:09:30.460 So like you, she has our same interests, but she's super erudite and delivers it in a way

02:09:35.740 that feels truly enlightening.

02:09:38.020 Okay, so that's my extended and yet another long pitch from Maureen Kellyanne, who I love

02:09:44.540 and would recommend in any form.

02:09:46.360 Okay, have a great weekend.

02:09:47.580 We're off on Friday and we'll talk to you on Monday.

02:09:52.820 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

02:09:55.000 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - August 21, 2025

Kohberger Claims Harassment, Aniston Whines About Fame, and Trump's Massive Legal Victory, with Maureen Callahan, Holloway, Chamberlain

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