The Megyn Kelly Show - Kyle Busch's Shocking and Tragic Death, Plus Stabbing in UK, and Female JP Morgan Exec COUNTERSUES, with Mark Eiglarsh and Jonna Spilbor ｜ Ep. 1323

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00:00:58.800 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:10.520 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:13.520 We have a jam-packed Kelly's Court coming up later today,

00:01:16.100 but we begin with a truly sad and shocking story out of the world of NASCAR.

00:01:22.000 as the sports world mourns the sudden shocking death of 41-year-old NASCAR legend Kyle Busch.

00:01:29.420 Details surrounding his passing remain murky, but here is what we know.

00:01:34.080 According to the Associated Press, yesterday, Busch was using the Chevrolet simulator

00:01:38.640 in Concord, North Carolina, that's near Charlotte, when he became unresponsive and was taken to a

00:01:44.880 hospital. His family initially releasing a statement that suggested Busch would not be

00:01:50.780 competing in this week's Coca-Cola 600, writing, quote, Kyle has experienced a severe illness

00:01:57.680 resulting in hospitalization. He is currently undergoing treatment and will not compete in any

00:02:04.060 of his scheduled activities this weekend at Charlotte Motor Speedway. We ask for understanding

00:02:09.560 and privacy as our family navigates this situation. Less than eight hours later, NASCAR,

00:02:15.800 his family, and his racing team, releasing a joint statement announcing his death.

00:02:22.440 Quote, on behalf of the Bush family, everyone at Richard Childress Racing, and all of NASCAR,

00:02:27.800 we are devastated to announce the sudden and tragic passing of Kyle Busch, the statement read.

00:02:32.860 Our entire NASCAR family is heartbroken by the loss of Kyle, a future Hall of Famer.

00:02:38.560 Kyle was a rare talent, one who comes along once in a generation. He was fierce, he was passionate,

00:02:43.980 he was immensely skilled, and he cared deeply about the sport and fans. His death coming 11

00:02:51.300 days after, he told his crew over the radio near the end of a race in New York that he needed a

00:02:57.100 doctor to give him a, quote, shot. According to reports, he had been suffering from sinus issues

00:03:03.540 that were aggravated by the G-forces of his job and elevation on the course. He came in eighth

00:03:12.020 that day and was healthy enough last weekend to go on to win the truck series in Dover,

00:03:16.840 Delaware. We're going to get to the medical issues in one minute. We have a team here to

00:03:21.220 tell us what they think. It's a 41-year-old guy. How do you drop dead of something related to

00:03:26.860 sinuses maybe at age 41? What do they think went on here? We're going to delve in in one minute.

00:03:33.580 First though, Bush is survived by his wife, Samantha, and their 11-year-old son, Brexton,

00:03:39.960 as well as their four-year-old daughter, Lennox.

00:03:43.360 That is just awful.

00:03:45.100 A little four-year-old, an 11-year-old,

00:03:48.100 that's too young, you know?

00:03:53.880 It's so bad on a couple of levels

00:03:55.780 because 11, what's worse,

00:03:59.720 the 11-year-old who will remember him

00:04:01.880 and will feel this pain acutely

00:04:03.840 or the four-year-old who probably won't,

00:04:08.060 that's just too young.

00:04:09.960 to have lifelong memories. She may have some vague image, but I'm sure every parent has

00:04:15.580 thought about this. You know, it's like, I've thought about it a million times since my dad

00:04:19.580 died when I was 15. And I feel so grateful that that was long enough for him to make his imprint

00:04:25.200 on me. And, you know, for me to know him and for me to have a real human in my mind and my heart

00:04:30.900 that I can remember. I think the same will be true for their 11 year old boy, but the four year old,

00:04:36.340 I don't know I don't think so I think about it with Charlie's kids all the time

00:04:41.060 you know Erica and Charlie did such a good job of videotaping their family and Charlie of course

00:04:47.280 there's reams of video we all feel like we know Charlie but there's you know there's knowing him

00:04:53.540 as your dad and having memories of him taking care of you and then there's knowing video of him

00:04:59.100 which it's not quite the same we all know that and these poor two kids and Samantha now have to

00:05:05.680 wonder, what happened? Was this preventable? And this guy was a superstar in the world of sports

00:05:13.880 and racing. The NASCAR community says he was truly one of their best. Two-time Cup Series champion.

00:05:20.520 He won more races across the three national series than anyone else in history. Known as

00:05:26.640 Rowdy, they called him, or Wild Thing, because he was full of personality. He had these post-race 0.99

00:05:32.420 fights and feuds with other drivers. He had a bunch of frenemies in the industry.

00:05:38.360 He was an unforgettable presence on the NASCAR scene. Here's a flavor of him. Watch.

00:05:46.700 Bob Packer, CSPN, were you surprised that Austin could stretch it on fuel? And then,

00:05:52.120 I mean, do you think for Austin to get his first one? I'm not surprised about anything.

00:05:57.660 And congratulations.

00:05:59.400 Are you okay with Joey moving forward?

00:06:01.740 Everything's great.

00:06:02.820 Really looking forward to getting in my race car and getting back here in Phoenix.

00:06:06.420 Speaking of that, are you glad that this is over and how you can get in the car

00:06:09.800 where you're comfortable and get back to racing?

00:06:11.680 Everything's great.

00:06:12.740 Really looking forward to getting back into my car and being here in Phoenix.

00:06:15.960 Is that pretty much what we're going to hear?

00:06:18.780 Everything's great.

00:06:20.100 Looking forward to getting back into my car.

00:06:21.340 If you had that 45-point buffer, do you fall back on that?

00:06:24.880 Does it really stick your mind at all? 0.94

00:06:26.020 It's pathetic to have to lean on insurance. 0.98

00:06:29.400 My premiums are gonna go up. 0.90

00:06:31.400 Very frustrating, Kyle Busch, understandable.

00:06:33.320 Got to where we needed it right there at the end,

00:06:34.980 and was able to lead all those laps,

00:06:36.500 and if it wasn't for lap traffic,

00:06:37.780 it wouldn't even have been a race.

00:06:38.660 I don't know what y'all are whining about,

00:06:39.860 but if you don't like that kind of racing,

00:06:42.480 don't even watch.

00:06:43.540 Kyle, you overcame some adversity on pit road

00:06:45.940 to work your way back up.

00:06:47.160 Can you talk about how you made your way

00:06:48.660 back to the field?

00:06:51.060 Pure talent, that's about it.

00:06:53.700 My pit crew did absolutely nothing to help me out tonight.

00:06:55.900 My truck drove like .

00:06:57.180 And these splitters are absolutely horrendous.

00:06:59.800 You can't pass in traffic.

00:07:00.940 You can't race alongside anybody.

00:07:02.340 You can't get within five truck lengths of no one.

00:07:04.680 But somehow, someway, I was able to get back to the front.

00:07:06.720 Had a blast.

00:07:07.560 Kyle, what was your thought

00:07:09.080 about Keselowski's little pre-race declaration?

00:07:11.680 Who?

00:07:14.900 Brad Keselowski?

00:07:16.060 Yeah, I don't know who you're talking about.

00:07:19.220 Okay.

00:07:21.260 He drives the number 12 car.

00:07:23.420 I saw it, but I passed it.

00:07:25.900 he's very full of personality and just didn't mince words and was unapologetic about his

00:07:33.360 tough personality on on the course he didn't always get along with his fellow drivers but

00:07:38.620 he did always show appreciation for his fans watch what's up oh my god oh my god

00:07:48.140 How are you?

00:07:52.960 I freaking love y'all.

00:07:54.740 I love y'all. 1.00

00:07:56.500 Shit. 1.00

00:07:57.400 Oh, my God. 1.00

00:07:58.580 Oh, my God.

00:08:00.120 Oh, my God.

00:08:02.700 Oh, my God.

00:08:05.020 I'm sorry.

00:08:06.260 Oh, my God.

00:08:07.520 Thank you.

00:08:08.060 You are freaking awesome.

00:08:09.000 Good to see you guys.

00:08:09.780 Thanks.

00:08:09.960 Oh, yeah.

00:08:10.420 I'm so happy you won.

00:08:13.740 That's amazing.

00:08:15.660 As you guys know, I'm not a huge sports person,

00:08:17.720 but I know enough about NASCAR from 14 years of Fox to know the fans are not kidding around.

00:08:24.180 There is deep commitment and deep, deep, deep love of the sport and the guys who drive the car.

00:08:30.400 So it's, I feel that woman's joy.

00:08:33.400 I've met so many people who feel exactly that way about Kyle, about NASCAR in general.

00:08:39.500 This was posted by his fellow NASCAR driver, Carson Hasiver.

00:08:44.280 He wrote, every day is a privilege, and today's a truly sad reminder of that.

00:08:48.820 This little boy in this picture hated you on Sundays, but he loved to hate you.

00:08:52.540 This is of himself.

00:08:54.320 And you made it very difficult to hate and not become a fan when your passion for racing showed.

00:08:59.820 When you'd show up to his hometown to race at his home tracks, he'll be forever grateful for that.

00:09:05.320 From a fan to a hater to a competitor to a teammate and to even maybe a friend.

00:09:10.720 I share that story because this little kid in the picture was not anywhere near the true number

00:09:15.300 that you impacted for the better just through racing. You will be deeply missed both on the

00:09:20.740 racetrack, but certainly off. Rest in peace. Despite all of his success, he never took winning

00:09:27.620 for granted. There's this video. He said it before. This wasn't the only time he said it,

00:09:34.520 but it is, it is pretty ominous that he said this just last week in a comment that now seems

00:09:43.000 prescient. Kyle Busch, your 69th victory in this series, your fifth right here. Why do these

00:09:50.600 moments never get old, Kyle? Because you never know when the last one is, you know, so, uh.

00:09:56.040 Did he know something?

00:09:59.800 You know, he had been struggling with this sinus thing. 0.99

00:10:03.640 He did need a doc to come see him at the end of that one race.

00:10:09.140 Did he have a sense of foreboding?

00:10:13.740 You know, does a man know when he's about to die?

00:10:17.720 On some level, do we know?

00:10:21.160 You know, and it's not like a...

00:10:23.360 You could ask the same question if it's a car crash or a plane crash, God forbid, or something

00:10:27.220 like that. But when it's an illness, like a sudden onset illness that's in you, do you know

00:10:32.580 at some level? I don't know. The only thing Kyle Busch was more dedicated to than racing was his

00:10:39.420 family. Here's his post on X from Monday. He died on Thursday. He was wishing his son happy birthday.

00:10:49.600 Happy birthday, Brexton Bush.

00:10:51.180 Your mom and I are so proud of who you're turning out to be.

00:10:53.820 You're the best kid on and off the track.

00:10:56.160 You amaze us every day.

00:10:58.280 Keep doing what you're doing, and there is no limit to what you'll accomplish.

00:11:01.560 Love you, buddy.

00:11:02.940 That's the last ex-post that Kyle wrote, and it will be the last birthday of his children

00:11:07.700 that he will have had the chance to celebrate.

00:11:10.600 And here's Kyle and his wife, Samantha, talking about Brexton and Lennox, including how he's

00:11:15.360 teaching his young daughter how he was teaching his young daughter how to race. I've seen Kyle

00:11:22.420 change since becoming a dad in many ways. There is a whole nother element when you get to bring

00:11:27.980 your child to victory lane. And that was something so special. Obviously, Kyle started with Brexton

00:11:32.560 as he was little, throwing him up in the air. You know, being able to teach Brexton about racing

00:11:37.540 and what I love is really, really unique and very cool to me. I feel like there's a lot of

00:11:42.660 finishing touches that you can add to a driver and his character and how he handles situations.

00:11:48.540 So trying to lend that 20 years of experience to a nine-year-old is certainly going to be

00:11:52.000 crucial in his development. And I feel really blessed and honored to be able to help him with

00:11:56.640 that. When Braxton won the Tulsa shootout, he literally had tears in his eyes. And that was

00:12:04.740 just so exciting. And it's amazing as his wife to just see that softer side of him.

00:12:11.480 And I also love not only with Brexton, but Lennox.

00:12:14.640 She's all of two.

00:12:16.060 We got her a little cart, and Kyle, same as he did with Brexton, just at a much younger age, brought her out.

00:12:21.660 And was like, okay, Lenny, like, showing her the ropes.

00:12:24.000 And it was cute as can be, especially sometimes when she's driving a hot pink Barbie car,

00:12:27.580 and Kyle's, like, jogging after her.

00:12:29.700 And you're like, that's just, he's a great dad.

00:12:33.040 The video is well worth watching if you're listening.

00:12:35.580 You can check it out on our YouTube.

00:12:37.620 Kyle and his wife, Samantha, were also philanthropists operating the Samantha and

00:12:41.840 Kyle Busch bundle of Joy Fund, which helps couples with infertility issues after the

00:12:46.980 pair had troubles of their own in that department.

00:12:49.080 He is going to be deeply missed, of course, by his family, but also by the whole NASCAR

00:12:55.360 community, now mourning one of the most accomplished drivers in modern history.

00:13:01.060 So how exactly is it that what's been reported to be a sinus affection or a sinus-related illness

00:13:08.980 potentially morphs into a cause of death at 41? We don't know the cause of death. I'm just saying

00:13:16.140 that's the only illness he was suffering from that we know about. And 41 is supposed to be one 0.98

00:13:21.000 of those ages where no matter kind of what you're going through when it comes to illnesses you can

00:13:26.340 contract, whether it's a stomach bug or a cold or a flu or a pneumonia, you're not supposed to die.

00:13:31.960 You're not supposed to die at 41. Joining me now to discuss it is Bob Lajita. He's a doctor. He's

00:13:38.700 a clinical professor of medicine at Rutgers, New Jersey Medical School and a guest of yours truly

00:13:43.400 many times back in the Fox days. And Dr. Dirk Parrott as well. He's an emergency room doctor

00:13:48.080 and CEO of MD Health Pathways. Our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, says Washington

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00:14:42.520 Doctors, thank you both so much for being here.

00:14:44.960 What a crazy and disturbing story.

00:14:48.900 I kind of can't get past it.

00:14:51.360 Dr. Lihita, let me start with you.

00:14:54.260 What do you make of what we know so far?

00:14:56.240 Just the calling of needing a doctor for a shot,

00:15:00.340 we are told related to a sinus infection

00:15:03.080 about a week or so ago,

00:15:05.620 and then being found unresponsive yesterday.

00:15:09.880 So it seems like he was out, he was in a simulator.

00:15:12.180 You know, he wasn't like in bed, like I can't function.

00:15:14.460 And clearly had some sort of an event where he died.

00:15:17.960 It's a tragic story beyond belief.

00:15:21.360 and our condolences go to the entire family. But when you talk about a sinus problem,

00:15:27.900 the first thing that comes to my mind is congestion. Now, you can have congestion

00:15:31.840 from a variety of reasons, some of which are cardiac. You know, a 41-year-old who drops dead,

00:15:38.780 one has to think of a cardiac cause. So he could have been in congestive failure,

00:15:44.620 heart failure, and that may have resulted in his feeling of congestion in his nasal passages.

00:15:51.160 The other thing is that I thought of when I heard this was pulmonary embolism, which is a sudden

00:15:56.000 cause of death, which is a blood clot that goes to the lungs and stops you from breathing. Now,

00:16:01.580 he might have had micro blood clots that were throughout his pulmonary or lung system.

00:16:08.320 And the third thing that I thought of was aneurysms. That's the explosion of a blood

00:16:13.760 vessel, a large blood vessel, like an aortic vessel. That's least likely.

00:16:19.460 And then when we get into the rare stuff, as in my subspecialty, which is immunology,

00:16:25.600 rheumatology, we think of vasculitis. Vasculitis can cause a chronic sinus infection. It's very,

00:16:32.720 very rare to have somebody die from that. That's inflammation of the blood vessels,

00:16:37.760 of the nasal passages and large blood vessels going around the heart. And a condition called

00:16:44.100 myocarditis, which is inflammation of the muscle, would cause congestive heart failure,

00:16:50.660 heart failure in general, and a heart attack, which would result in sudden death.

00:16:55.740 We all know about myocarditis from the COVID pandemic. Some people who got COVID suffered

00:17:02.160 from it, and some people who got the vaccine were killed by myocarditis. It happened a lot

00:17:08.140 with young men, teenage men in particular, teenage boys. That's dark to think about. I'm sure

00:17:13.740 all of that would be reflected on an autopsy? Yes, definitely. An autopsy for a sudden death

00:17:20.780 like this in a 41-year-old is mandatory. Okay. Dr. Parrott, what do you think? You're an ER doc,

00:17:27.460 so you would have been exactly the kind of doctor who would have had to deal with this had they

00:17:31.280 gotten him to an ER prior to being pronounced dead. First of all, my heart goes out to the

00:17:38.640 family. He has two young children. I've got three daughters. I saw the video of him riding on the

00:17:44.480 four-wheeler with his kids on the track, and I just know how much that family is going to miss

00:17:49.620 him. So my prayers go out to him. I can walk you a little bit through how an ER doctor thinks. So

00:17:55.760 when you come into the ER, we're tasked with thinking, what is the worst thing that can cause

00:18:00.940 this? And like you said, a 41-year-old should not die. And when you think about what can kill a 41-

00:18:07.860 old, it's going to either be your heart or your brain. And when you think about sinus, what can

00:18:13.220 masquerade as a sinus infection and ultimately be a cause of death, there's a couple of things.

00:18:19.620 One's what's called CBST, central venous sinus thrombosis. Very rare condition. Probably I've

00:18:25.880 only seen it about five times in my career, but it presents with sinus pain, sinus pressure. You

00:18:31.140 think you have a really bad sinus infection. And what's really going on is you've got a lot of

00:18:35.420 inflammation kind of in your sinus area, a bacterial infection, and ultimately causes a

00:18:42.820 clot in the blood vessels that drain the sinuses. And so when that clot forms back behind your

00:18:49.580 sinuses, the blood can't drain and ultimately creates a lot of pressure on the brain and

00:18:55.480 ultimately a bleed. And that head bleed obviously can cause death. So that's one rare cause that

00:19:02.820 can masquerade as like a sinus infection. The other thing is some people call sinus infection

00:19:07.180 upper respiratory infection. So if he truly just had upper respiratory type symptoms,

00:19:12.460 just like Dr. Lajita said, the cause of death could be something like myocarditis or a heart

00:19:18.700 infection or a very severe pneumonia leading to respiratory death. But as an ER doc, when you come

00:19:26.320 in to the hospital and you look well and you're a 41-year-old, we think that you probably are well

00:19:32.660 and don't think of these rare instances and rare causes.

00:19:36.160 And there's very specific types of testing

00:19:38.880 to identify these types of conditions

00:19:40.840 that aren't typically done

00:19:42.240 unless we have a high suspicion or you look very ill.

00:19:47.020 Dr. Barrett, let me ask you a question.

00:19:49.380 We had friends who had to bring their family member

00:19:53.540 into the ER for a sinus infection

00:19:56.680 where their family member started to feel like

00:19:59.800 they were starting to black out.

00:20:01.400 They thought it was just a sinus infection,

00:20:02.660 but then it was clearly an emergency situation.

00:20:06.400 So they brought him into the ER

00:20:08.260 and it became very clear to the ER docs

00:20:11.520 that there was something wrong with his brain.

00:20:14.640 And it turned out he needed emergency brain surgery.

00:20:18.180 And my understanding is they believe

00:20:20.040 that this sinus infection had somehow traveled to his brain.

00:20:24.240 That might just be my lay person's description

00:20:26.880 of what I know,

00:20:27.620 but they had to do emergency brain surgery on him.

00:20:30.700 and he would have died if they hadn't done,

00:20:33.820 it was all related.

00:20:35.020 So could this have been,

00:20:36.680 like, is there some sort of sinus infection

00:20:38.220 that can travel to the brain

00:20:39.520 and cause death if not detected?

00:20:42.320 Yeah, great question, Megan.

00:20:45.300 So your brain and sinuses

00:20:47.720 are very closely in proximity.

00:20:50.240 And so anytime you get a sinus infection,

00:20:52.160 there's a great barrier between your sinuses

00:20:55.100 and your brain to keep your brain

00:20:56.400 from getting that same infection.

00:20:58.120 However, there are blood vessels

00:21:00.080 that are very close. And in some people, that infection can spread to the bloodstream,

00:21:06.800 can make its way to the brain, can cause things like meningitis, can cause an abscess,

00:21:11.240 can cause a blood clot. That's what I think it was, an abscess.

00:21:14.960 Yeah. And those have to be surgically addressed immediately. Otherwise, they could lead to death. 0.62

00:21:22.660 Could that be consistent with what you're hearing with him having symptoms and then the day of,

00:21:29.880 like going out and about, like not in bed, maybe just thinking it's a sinus infection. I'm going

00:21:36.000 to function. When you're a tough guy like Kyle Busch, you can take a lot of pain. And so I am

00:21:42.900 certain a young, healthy guy like this that sits in that car and is an athlete was minimizing his

00:21:50.160 symptoms. Probably a normal person would have sought care more quickly sooner. But here's a

00:21:56.040 tough guy that's used to putting up with pain. And so by the time he got to medical treatment,

00:22:01.780 he was probably in a very severe condition. And if it was an abscess, if it was a blood clot,

00:22:08.460 it may have been too late to intervene at that time.

00:22:13.480 I mean, before I go back to Dr. Lajita, now I have everybody in the audience who gets sinus

00:22:18.160 infections worried about whether it's going to travel to their brain, right? So it's like,

00:22:22.540 how do you know if it's just like a regular sinus infection or something that

00:22:27.420 could be potentially deadly? Can I answer that? You usually, usually in a severe sinus infection,

00:22:37.340 which really travels to the brain, you have to have, or you should have a very high fever.

00:22:43.900 Fever would denote something a little bit more than a chronic sinusitis, which is an inflamed

00:22:49.820 sinus. So a fever that might result as a result of the meningitis that ensues after the bacteria

00:22:57.440 travel to the brain would cause a significant feeling of malaise, fever, weakness, and inability

00:23:06.360 to function. Now, the other thing is if he blew a blood vessel or had a cerebral hemorrhage,

00:23:12.780 that could also cause immediate death.

00:23:18.300 And that would be a tremendous tragedy.

00:23:20.580 This sinus that he had,

00:23:22.460 I'm sure Dr. Perrin would agree,

00:23:24.060 is not something that would be,

00:23:25.580 if it's traveling to the brain,

00:23:26.940 is not something that would be in 24 hours.

00:23:29.400 It usually has to be cooking for a while

00:23:32.080 and then the high fever would be noted.

00:23:34.640 And I don't know what the injection

00:23:35.920 would have been that he was seeking.

00:23:38.620 That's interesting.

00:23:39.460 yeah i mean could it be like a steroid or something to take down the inflammation i mean

00:23:44.740 i don't know what kind of an injection you would get for a sinus infection but i can understand

00:23:49.400 how it would get worse when you're driving so fast you're measuring it in g's usually an antibiotic

00:23:54.680 you would think so listen to this you guys uh this just came in uh this is being reported by

00:24:02.260 TMZ, which has gotten its hands on the 911 call that was made, we believe, by the folks at the

00:24:12.640 simulator facility after Kyle went down, after they determined that he was non-responsive. And

00:24:19.800 there's some description in here of the symptoms that they were observing. Let's listen.

00:24:25.100 I've got an individual that's shortness of breath, very hot, thinks she's going to pass out,

00:24:31.560 And he's producing a little bit of blood, coughing up some blood.

00:24:37.880 He is awake.

00:24:38.960 He's awake.

00:24:39.780 He's on the bathroom floor right now.

00:24:42.020 Okay.

00:24:44.600 So when you come in, if you could not make it, can you turn the sirens off?

00:24:49.020 Yeah, that's fine.

00:24:49.540 When you get here.

00:24:50.920 And there's a, so when you come into the main entrance of the building,

00:24:55.320 the closest way to get to him is if you go to the left.

00:24:59.840 Like you'll come in and the parking lot splits to the right or the left.

00:25:03.140 Just tell them to go to the left.

00:25:04.580 I'll be out here waiting on them.

00:25:07.160 All right, we're just going to play it one more time

00:25:08.740 so you can focus in on the description at the top.

00:25:11.860 I just want to hear that one more time.

00:25:13.800 I've got an individual that's shortness of breath, very hot,

00:25:18.580 thinks he's going to pass out and is producing a little bit of blood,

00:25:24.780 coughing up some blood.

00:25:26.500 He is awake.

00:25:27.260 he's awake he's he's on the bathroom floor right now okay um so when you come in if you could not

00:25:35.260 make it okay can you turn the last part yeah we got it yeah uh so there's some details in there

00:25:41.560 i mean that's exactly you know dr parrot this this is what you would get uh from the emts who

00:25:46.900 would have brought him into you what did you glean from that description yeah this shifts are focused

00:25:51.040 to a respiratory issue. So he's fever, short of breath, coughing up blood, highly suspicious for

00:25:58.320 severe pneumonia at this point. And there are a couple of strains of pneumonia in young people

00:26:04.660 that can cause a rapid decline. So when we heard originally that he had sinus symptoms,

00:26:10.700 he may have meant that I just have an upper respiratory infection. I've got upper respiratory

00:26:14.700 symptoms. This paints the picture of a young man that has severe pneumonia. Things like MRSA

00:26:22.220 pneumonia can cause bleeding in the airway, and you can actually suffocate from that blood that

00:26:29.540 you've produced and that bleeding in your airway very quickly. So I think this shifts the thought

00:26:34.980 that this may have been a cerebral issue to a respiratory issue. Dr. Lajita, what did you hear

00:26:42.140 and there that jumped out at you? I heard the bleeding from the lung, the coughing up blood,

00:26:48.240 which we know is associated with pneumonia. And I do know that right now I'm seeing a lot of

00:26:53.300 patients with what are called multifocal areas of infection, multifocal pneumonias, very severe

00:26:59.440 pneumonias, causing sepsis, depending on your age. Now he's only 41, so he can handle that.

00:27:05.440 But I have patients who are in their 70s and 80s who are in the hospital in shock from septic shock,

00:27:10.860 which would definitely kill a 70- or 80-year-old.

00:27:13.800 But a 41-year-old, this is a little unusual.

00:27:17.320 It has to be a pretty severe infection.

00:27:20.440 The other thing that goes back to what I'm thinking is the pulmonary embolus.

00:27:24.400 I have seen so many people, and I'm sure Dr. Perrin will agree,

00:27:27.600 who die from acute pulmonary emboli,

00:27:30.860 and that is a big clot that goes to the lung.

00:27:34.280 And, you know, if these little clots go to the lung before the big one,

00:27:37.740 they cough up a lot of blood.

00:27:39.920 And the third thing is congestive heart failure.

00:27:42.480 One can cough up blood with congestive heart failure

00:27:45.340 and pulmonary or lung edema, fluid in the lungs, lots of fluid.

00:27:51.140 And the hemoptosis-

00:27:52.340 What would cause the PE?

00:27:55.140 I remember that from my ER watching days.

00:27:57.200 They would dread the PE, you know,

00:28:00.320 and even we would come to know, oh God, it's a PE.

00:28:02.940 What would cause that?

00:28:04.040 Well, with Kyle's job-

00:28:07.220 We'll do Lajita and then we'll go to you, Perrin.

00:28:08.600 Okay, good.

00:28:09.120 Well, a PE would come from, we call that procoagulant.

00:28:13.560 You can have a deep vein clot in your legs from sitting too long.

00:28:19.080 You can have it from having a disorder of your blood, which is called procoagulation,

00:28:24.040 meaning your blood tends to clot prematurely.

00:28:26.340 We see a lot of that in the hospital.

00:28:29.860 And so that is always a possibility.

00:28:32.500 Pulmonary emboli cause a lot of sudden deaths.

00:28:35.100 You don't have to be old to get a PE.

00:28:37.500 You don't have to, you can see PEs in teens.

00:28:40.160 You can see it in early 20s and certainly in a 40-year-old.

00:28:44.920 Oh my gosh.

00:28:46.140 But there wouldn't be like advanced notice of a PE, would there, Dr. Parrott?

00:28:50.260 Like, are we, like if we're going with respiratory and following what you just said,

00:28:56.900 maybe it wasn't a sinus infection.

00:28:58.500 Maybe it was something like a pneumonia that he wrongly thought was a sinus infection.

00:29:03.300 Would that relate to PE?

00:29:06.180 It can.

00:29:06.800 And any any time you get an infection, it creates an inflammatory state in your body.

00:29:11.080 And so that's a pro coagulant. So any type of infection.

00:29:15.060 And then Kyle sits down. He's a he's a race car driver.

00:29:20.420 The sitting position for prolonged periods of time can allow you to develop clots.

00:29:24.800 So it could be that he had some infection.

00:29:27.340 And then because of that inflammation in his system and sitting down in a simulator for a long period of time,

00:29:33.460 had to develop a clot in his leg and broke loose and suddenly caused an embolism to the lung.

00:29:41.100 So it's really hard to say without having imaging, a CT scan. But if he came into

00:29:45.880 my ER, he'd be getting a CT scan of his chest, looking for both pneumonia, both PE,

00:29:53.220 to try to identify the cause. Are you surprised to hear the caller say he's awake? Apparently,

00:29:59.560 if you listen to the whole thing, he says it three times. He is awake. He's awake. He's awake.

00:30:02.760 we heard the part where he said he's awake, but he's on the floor. So he was conscious and having

00:30:10.080 symptoms. And I don't know, it feels like, I don't know, it's just my frustration should have

00:30:16.200 been savable, should have been savable. I like how, how can you, if a PE was the problem, would

00:30:23.160 that not be savable? You know what I mean? What could it have been that would have killed him

00:30:26.360 from the time of the simulator to the time he presumably was taken to the ER on our list of

00:30:31.580 suspects, Dr. Parrott? Yeah. So most PEs, it's very rare to die at 41 of a QPE. The treatment

00:30:42.520 that we have today, we can give you blood thinners. We can go in there and grab that clot. We can do

00:30:46.220 an embolectomy, get you over there and remove the clot. However, if you've filled up your airway

00:30:52.240 with fluid, blood, and you can't oxygenate, even if we put you on a ventilator, and this is due to

00:30:59.400 a pneumonia or an infection, and we can't oxygenate you because your lungs aren't functioning,

00:31:05.340 they're full of infection, they're full of fluid, they're full of blood, that can cause death.

00:31:09.760 Unless you get on ECMO, which is a way to bypass the lungs and still oxygenate your blood,

00:31:14.780 that could cause death. Dr. Lajita, would it be a standard practice in a case like this? Do you

00:31:22.440 think if he comes in and says, I think I have a sinus infection, I'm all stuffed up, I'm in pain

00:31:27.120 in my face to do a lung x-ray, which is, I know that that would be the standard if you suspected

00:31:32.420 pneumonia. That's correct. Yes. Pneumonia, you'd listen to the lungs carefully. You would do a

00:31:37.800 complete cardiac exam. You would really get the picture. And I don't know if he had a physician

00:31:43.320 that was frequently examining him. Most athletes of his caliber are followed medically fairly

00:31:49.620 assiduously. Well, there's that one doctor 11 days before he died, who gave him a shot of

00:31:54.400 something and knew he was ill. He was talking about it. I've heard the audio of him in the car.

00:31:58.800 So clearly there was medical care involved in some way. Yeah. Now I don't remember, Megan,

00:32:02.700 did they say he had a fever? They said he's very hot. He's going to pass out. Shortness of breath,

00:32:11.180 blood. He's coughing up blood and is awake on the floor. Very hot. That's suggestive of an

00:32:15.780 infection as Dr. Perrin and I believe that suggests that he could have had pneumonia,

00:32:20.400 severe pneumonia because you don't with a blood clot that's a significant blood clot a pulmonary

00:32:25.580 embolus you don't usually have a high fever at the outset i mean it takes the pneumonia the

00:32:30.900 infection that's causing all of this uh to really cause problems and it's likely that the doctor

00:32:36.840 a couple days earlier that gave him the shot gave him a shot of an antibiotic

00:32:40.140 um which doesn't cover it i mean if he's that severely ill he should have been

00:32:45.700 on, it should have been in the hospital on IV therapy, IV antibiotic therapy,

00:32:51.080 because he probably was septic. And sepsis, with a high fever, coughing up blood,

00:32:57.920 that's imminent death, unless treated aggressively.

00:33:02.320 That's awful. I don't know any of the details of how far away the

00:33:05.360 center where he was doing the simulator was from an emergency care hospital, or what the level of

00:33:11.160 trauma care they were able to give was all those details will come out. And did you say it's

00:33:16.900 mandatory for a 41-year-old? Was that just like loosely mandatory or actually mandatory for

00:33:22.660 hospitals to give an autopsy to a 41-year-old? Mandatory. So there will be an autopsy? Yes. 0.89

00:33:31.960 I mean, I don't know, Dr. Perrin, how is it in Texas? I know in the New York metropolitan area,

00:33:35.900 It's mandated in a young person who dies.

00:33:39.140 In Texas, it depends on if you have an explainable cause of death.

00:33:44.700 So if the doctors were comfortable, they knew what caused this, there was no foul play.

00:33:49.160 It is not mandatory, but you have to have an explainable cause of death.

00:33:54.780 I feel like any spouse, you know, a young woman like his wife is, would want one because they have kids. 0.67

00:34:02.040 you want to know, like you want to rule out, was this something genetic that we need to be testing

00:34:06.340 for in the, in the next gen? And so we need to be on alert for it. Um, I'm sure she's not thinking

00:34:11.840 entirely straight, but you know, I think whenever your spouse would die suddenly of a medical thing,

00:34:16.380 you'd be worried about your children too. And just, just ruling things out. It's such an awful

00:34:20.500 tragedy. Guys, thanks so much for pinch hitting on short notice and offering your expertise to us

00:34:25.500 and our viewers. Absolutely. Thank you. Really appreciate it. Wow. Say a prayer. Say a prayer

00:34:33.620 for that grieving family. It's so, sudden death is just so awful. It's so awful. You know, it's like

00:34:38.960 the person who goes, we all kind of hope we'll go suddenly, right? It's like, you know, I mean,

00:34:45.040 for the rest of the people out there, that's not going to happen to any of us listening,

00:34:48.340 dying. We're just going to stick around. But for the family, it's just so painful. There's

00:34:54.960 no chance to say goodbye. There's no chance to acclimate yourself to the possibility of one

00:34:59.680 going. And when there's children involved, just so much acute pain for the mother to deal with

00:35:06.060 their grief, being a single mom in a minute. You know, look at this guy. He's like a strong,

00:35:12.840 tall, professional athlete, fierce, you know, the way he would battle rhetorically and take no,

00:35:19.240 you know what? I'm sure she's used to being protected by him. I'm sure he was the alpha

00:35:26.920 figure in the family, and now he's gone, and she's going to need a lot of support, and I'll

00:35:34.260 bet you anything she's going to get it. The NASCAR family's very close, and I'm sure the fans are

00:35:41.140 just wondering what they can do. Maybe we'll start a GoFundMe or something to help. I'm sure

00:35:47.720 they weren't hurting for money, but there's got to be some way of sending her and the kids our

00:35:51.380 love. It should start with prayer. Thank you all for tuning in and listening to that. We're going

00:35:57.880 to move on to other news because we do have a whole show lined up for you on Kelly's Court,

00:36:01.360 and we have just gotten ourselves a hold of some exclusive video in connection with the young

00:36:11.080 Scottish man we told you about yesterday who was stabbed to death by a man in England who

00:36:20.560 said he was allowed to carry this amazing, terrifying knife thanks to his religion and

00:36:30.940 did in fact stab this 18-year-old young man with it. The cops came. The stabber claimed that he

00:36:39.460 was the victim. He accused the victim of shouting some sort of racial epithet at him, of which there

00:36:46.880 is zero proof. And as this young man lay dying, the police told him he wasn't, that he hadn't

00:36:54.320 been stabbed. They didn't know anything. And did his assailant cry out, no, he has been stabbed.

00:36:59.520 I'm sorry. It was an accident or it was self-defense, which is what he's now claiming

00:37:03.700 as that case is on trial this minute in the UK. No, he didn't. He kept his mouth shut.

00:37:09.460 There's been almost no photographic evidence of the alleged perpetrator here, the defendant.

00:37:17.460 Somehow he's all been scrubbed from the Internet.

00:37:20.760 Well, we've gotten our hands exclusively on a video that shows him up close and personal with not one but two knives, one of which appears to be a sword.

00:37:32.060 I mean, a long sword like an epi.

00:37:34.860 And we're going to show it to you next.

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00:39:17.460 all right full-time thoughts craig who stood out brazil's lime cheesecake started bright didn't

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00:39:46.020 footy prime daily we are jumping into kelly's court now uh there's a lot on the docket today

00:39:55.300 We're going to cover the latest in Murdoch.

00:39:57.640 There's been a massive update in that J.P. Morgan case where that guy is accusing Lorna

00:40:02.520 Hajdini of sexually harassing and even forcing essentially sexual assault on him.

00:40:08.640 Lots to tell you there.

00:40:09.940 We've got Luigi Mangione and we're going to get into Henry Nowak in the UK in our video

00:40:15.100 that we want to show you with our panel.

00:40:17.400 Here to break down the hottest legal stories are Mark Eiglarsh and Jonna Spillboard.

00:40:20.840 they are hosts of the brand new show, Positively Legal, which you can find on the MK True Crime

00:40:25.660 channel, wherever you get your podcasts, and on YouTube at youtube.com slash at the at sign

00:40:31.660 MK True Crime. Mark, Jonna, welcome back. We have a short time here before the end of the hour,

00:40:38.860 and I just want to kick it off with the most bizarre story on the internet. It's not legal,

00:40:42.620 but you might have thoughts. It's this mask guy, alleged mask guy. I know you've seen it.

00:40:49.460 he went on Fox News and his name is Robert Harward. He is of CENTCOM, formerly of CENTCOM,

00:40:58.160 Central Command in the Middle East. He's a military guy. And he was speaking to my old pals,

00:41:03.260 Bill Hammer and Dana Perino on my old show, America's Newsroom. And that video has now gone

00:41:10.620 super viral because if you focus on his neck right above his shirt, it very much looks like

00:41:20.720 the bottom of a mask that is detached from the skin. I don't know what else this could be.

00:41:29.060 There's some speculation by some online saying maybe it's a shadow.

00:41:32.500 it doesn't look like a shadow to me but it's kind of hard to swallow mask we have other video of

00:41:42.660 this man from other hits he's done and i will say he looks a little smoother in his america's

00:41:50.500 newsroom hit than he does in some of his other videos so it's like i don't maybe i have no idea

00:41:56.520 why he would be in a mask at first i saw it and i said this is some crazy conspiracy theory people

00:42:01.360 are nuts, but it's gone so viral with so many people who I consider legitimate reporters,

00:42:10.180 non-conspiratorial people saying, what in the hell is this that we got to talk about it?

00:42:17.740 Any thoughts, Mark? I saw you shaking your head yes or nodding your head yes. What do you make

00:42:21.960 of it? It's just bizarre. I don't know what to make of it. I mean, the first thing is I thought

00:42:26.880 it was a given that it was a mask and then you're raising, well, it could be a shadow. I'm like,

00:42:30.240 oh wait let's give him the let's give him the presumption of innocence here maybe it's not a

00:42:35.960 mask and if it's not a mask then what the hell are we doing talking about it right but if it is

00:42:40.840 well viva fry who we love uh he's a lawyer too he's a journalist and he said he's he he thinks

00:42:48.960 it's a shadow he thinks if you watch this mark which is horizontal across his throat

00:42:53.900 right exactly where a mask that you might pull over your head would end

00:42:57.640 he thinks it's mirroring it's mirroring his lip movements and i can see what he means there it is

00:43:04.360 kind of mirroring his lip movements so i don't know what that tells us jonna um like i don't

00:43:14.380 know what we do but viva's theory is also that somehow it's a reflection of the teleprompter

00:43:19.240 but viva there would be no teleprompter for the guest you guys have been guests on fox news

00:43:24.700 countless times, the guest does not get a teleprompter. At best, they get a little camera

00:43:29.320 that they look into. So, and the camera doesn't cast shadow on the guest. So I don't, maybe it's

00:43:38.660 his shirt causing a shadow. I don't know. Jonna, what do you think? Well, I originally thought

00:43:43.680 before I realized that this wasn't Zoom, sometimes Zoom, when it enhances your image, can make

00:43:50.100 things look really weird but i actually think if it's a mask this guy's onto something megan hear

00:43:55.920 me out i know this probably doesn't happen to you but it's happened to me how many times do you wake

00:43:59.880 up in the morning one day and you're like oh no my botox wore off right and then you go and you

00:44:06.100 have tv right you've got some big thing you got a big conference you're like shoot okay let me get

00:44:11.320 the mask and until you can get to your botox doctor objection unrelatable i love it you can't

00:44:17.700 no what is that it would be so helpful wait we actually pulled video from the internet of

00:44:23.120 somebody putting on an ultra realistic silicone yes i've seen those right amazing right watch

00:44:28.940 this all right so the listening audience you got to go to the show at 44 after the hour and look at

00:44:34.040 this he's putting on his face he's pulling it to sort of get it on the nose properly he's putting

00:44:39.740 the bottom neck underneath his t-shirt he's putting on a cap so you can hide the weirdness

00:44:44.320 you know he looks very creepily real yeah would not you would not know megan in the interest of 0.74

00:44:51.280 disclosure i just i wanted to say something oh gosh don't freak me out no ew you're freaking

00:44:59.680 me out he's pretending to pull off his mask let me tell you something so the internet was going

00:45:04.360 nuts with this last night yours truly in included and one of the clips that started to circulate

00:45:11.200 was of the, I didn't even know there was such a person,

00:45:14.460 the former chief of disguise at the CIA.

00:45:19.860 Coolest job ever.

00:45:22.040 Who doesn't want that job? 1.00

00:45:23.680 Her name is Jonna Mendez. 1.00

00:45:26.880 And she went on, you know, the singer Jennifer Hudson,

00:45:30.840 she had a talk show for a while.

00:45:33.780 And this woman went on, I mean, like so random, what? 0.97

00:45:38.140 The former CIA chief of disguise,

00:45:39.860 speaking to Jennifer Hudson,

00:45:41.200 and talked about how this is absolutely something they do at CIA, a full head mask that you put on

00:45:49.500 over that that has like the neck ending and they used it. And she talked about when she revealed it

00:45:56.740 to a former president in the Oval Office. Watch this.

00:46:01.720 What's the most memorable moment from being in disguise for you?

00:46:05.140 um there were a number of them but the one I mean one that has to stand out I went to the

00:46:12.500 White House and I briefed George H.W. Bush the president at the time while I was wearing a full

00:46:20.580 face mask so we're sitting like this close together and I'm telling him that I'm going to

00:46:28.060 show him the best disguise that we have and he's looking for a bag like where where is it I said

00:46:33.380 well, I'm wearing it, and I'm going to take it off. And I reached to start taking it off, and he said,

00:46:39.500 stop. And he got up, and he walked, and he looked, and he looked, and he couldn't,

00:46:43.880 he didn't know it was a mask. He wasn't sure what I was wearing. He sat back down, he said, okay.

00:46:49.220 So I took it off, and I was holding it up in the air so he could see it.

00:46:54.120 My whole head, it had hair, and a face, and a neck. So you could walk around as someone else.

00:47:00.480 absolutely and that would be the disguise absolutely that was a great disguise

00:47:04.960 go jennifer but go go sally jesse rafael years ago wow that was

00:47:11.980 random you can't make it up but there for the listening audience there she there's a picture

00:47:17.720 of her behind her talking of her holding her little mask up like a like almost like a severed

00:47:22.320 head is sitting in the oval and it it's it is not impossible at all that this guy for some reason

00:47:30.900 was wearing an actual mask we just don't know why now if this guy's former cia talking on america's

00:47:36.280 newsroom i i think i'd be confused convinced mark but he's former centcom right what's his motive

00:47:42.240 and he doesn't right yeah he doesn't have the he's bald he doesn't need to worry about the hair

00:47:47.300 the the wrinkles maybe he's not full what yeah what and also well unless this isn't him like i

00:47:54.460 think that's the theory by some so here's an earlier shot of him on a different appearance

00:47:59.040 where he does look a little bit more rugged and less smooth than in this other one on america's

00:48:04.760 newsroom but i think the theory the question is guys was it actually this man uh robert harward

00:48:13.200 on America's Newsroom.

00:48:15.560 Because, you know, I've listened to the audience,

00:48:18.100 many of them thought that Joe Biden had a lookalike

00:48:21.120 or sort of a stand-in who wore a Joe Biden mask

00:48:24.520 many, many times.

00:48:26.020 And there would be videos on the internet they'd cut

00:48:28.140 where like, you could see the height differential.

00:48:30.540 We had tons of video of Joe Biden next to Jill Biden.

00:48:33.260 And in a couple of videos, you know, and he was infirm,

00:48:36.520 you'd see him much shorter, like almost her height.

00:48:40.500 and people will be like, whoa, what happened?

00:48:43.380 You don't shrink, you know, by six inches.

00:48:46.360 So can we rule it out?

00:48:47.760 Or are we just getting pulled into the madness

00:48:50.240 that's in the ether right now

00:48:51.500 with all the aliens coming out 0.99

00:48:53.220 and like all the things we were told were bullshit are true. 0.98

00:48:56.180 Right, Bigfoot is alive. 0.98

00:48:57.860 We know that now.

00:48:59.800 It's real.

00:49:00.840 We did a segment on that at America's Newsroom one time too.

00:49:04.060 Oh, no, no.

00:49:06.320 In the doldrums of summer, Eiglars, it's hard.

00:49:08.760 it's hard to fill the two hours of airtime can't we just talk about a murder

00:49:11.940 i know something simple to solve all right so we don't have answers is that is that basically where

00:49:18.800 we don't know who i don't know what's your vote if you have to vote what was it a mask or not

00:49:23.240 what do you say jonna oh it kind of looks like a mask but if you're that sophisticated where

00:49:29.300 you're going to put on somebody else's face wouldn't it be a little bit longer wouldn't 0.98

00:49:33.120 you wear a scarf like a austin power do something to cover that up like an ass guy yeah i'm going 0.98

00:49:39.460 with shadow there's as much to do about nothing nothing no i don't know if you really you don't 0.96

00:49:47.140 know it moves just like the bottom of a mask it really does i guess i'll go with shadow because

00:49:53.180 you know occam's razor simplest explanation is usually the best and again why would this guy

00:49:59.780 be wearing a mask. And his voice sounds just like the voice of the actual Robert Harward

00:50:05.780 in other hits. So I don't believe it was a different person. But will we ever know? He's

00:50:12.420 going to have to put out a statement. I guarantee you we are T minus like two hours from him putting

00:50:17.520 out a statement or doing a hit. He's going to show up and we'll update the audience with that

00:50:21.880 video when it happens. All right. Stand by, guys, because we've got so many medical or sorry,

00:50:25.820 legal cases to get to, and there's some good ones today. While I have you, it is Friday,

00:50:31.640 and that means it is the one day of the week we send you an email. If you are on our list,

00:50:36.460 we don't sell our list like so many others so we can make money off of you. We just send you

00:50:40.540 one email a week, and in it, we give you all the news of the week in 60 seconds or less.

00:50:45.840 If you just want to read the opening bullet points, you'll be up to speed. This week,

00:50:49.880 we're going to give you a bunch of behind-the-scenes stuff, videos that you may have

00:50:54.620 miss that we think are our best. And there's always the most clicked on item, and that would

00:50:59.800 be Strudwick Brunt, my little red boy, who is very, very naughty, though not as naughty as he

00:51:07.740 used to be. He is getting better. So thanks to all of you who told me when he was just a one

00:51:11.620 and two and three-year-old lab that if I just waited, he would get better. You never said

00:51:17.700 perfect, and that's good. You didn't totally mislead me. He's not perfect, and I don't think

00:51:22.600 he's ever going to be. But we always put an update on Strudwick in there. And fortunately or

00:51:28.040 unfortunately, to quote our president, he always gives me an update. If you are heading into summer

00:51:33.740 without a medical emergency kit, you're taking a risk most people don't think about until it's

00:51:38.680 too late. Summer colds linger and can turn into sinus infections that last for weeks. Can I tell

00:51:45.980 you, my friend's family member just had one of these that got out of control, actually dangerous.

00:51:51.940 You do have to stay on top of sinus infections.

00:51:54.700 Getting sick right before vacation can derail everything.

00:51:57.840 And when you're traveling,

00:51:58.640 finding a doctor and pharmacy is stressful.

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00:52:39.160 slash MK. That's promo code MK. Go to urgentcarekit.com slash MK.

00:52:50.400 Back with me now are the hosts of Positively Legal on our MK True Crime channel.

00:52:54.460 That's a podcast that's called MK True Crime.

00:52:57.300 You can go over there and subscribe and listen to Positively Legal and enjoy.

00:53:01.680 These are our Kelly's Court OGs, Mark Eiglarsh and Johnna Spilboer.

00:53:07.060 Check out mktruecrime.com to find out all the platforms that they are on and how to subscribe.

00:53:11.480 By the way, new episodes of Positively Legal drop every Wednesday.

00:53:14.960 We call it Positively Legal because these two happen to be like these crushing killer lawyers who are actually always affable and can always find the positive in a situation.

00:53:26.140 And it's a fun show.

00:53:27.260 Here's just a little.

00:53:28.600 We pulled a soundbite just so people can get a flavor of what they might find on Positively Legal here in SOT20.

00:53:33.020 You know that you are so busy and stressed when you get a text from your Botox doctor checking on your well-being, which I did, by the way.

00:53:47.200 My Botox doctor is like, hey, everything okay?

00:53:50.960 He literally did a welfare check because I haven't been there.

00:53:54.320 Why?

00:53:54.800 Because we're so busy.

00:53:56.020 I'm busy.

00:53:56.620 You're busy.

00:53:57.920 I have mixed feelings about a Botox doctor.

00:54:00.760 Really?

00:54:01.460 Botox doctor?

00:54:02.440 i mean he's not your heart doctor he wants to put more stuff in your face okay yes yes yes

00:54:08.100 and anywhere else that i'll let him put it so i miss him

00:54:12.120 mark you don't know not everybody wakes up gorgeous like you

00:54:20.980 the rest of us have to fight for it john i support you thank you in having the botox doctor on speed

00:54:29.280 dial i'm gonna turn mark you know men are doing it too sure yeah i get accused they are you'd be

00:54:37.100 surprised no i ain't gonna do it yeah i i will never get doug to do it but i do know some people

00:54:42.160 in television and even in government who are getting the botox and i speak of men i mean women

00:54:48.020 it's like not a shock but but even men and if they get it done right you don't even notice you just

00:54:52.600 think that they look great you can't tell but if they're like smile ends here when you know like

00:54:57.640 their eyes never, then you know, that's where a lot of guys get it. And of course, the famous

00:55:03.080 11s. My injections are pickleball. I'm glad that statement ended where it did. Okay. I want to

00:55:14.980 kick this off with this horrific Henry Nowak case. So he's a Scot and he was going to college in

00:55:24.840 Great Britain in the English city of Southampton. He was walking home after a night out with friends.

00:55:31.820 Yesterday, we said this happened in 2023. I'd like to correct that. It was 2025. It was December of

00:55:37.120 2025. He was walking home, first year college student, studying accounting from a night out

00:55:43.180 with friends. He had been drinking, but not much. He was not legally drunk. And a man approached him

00:55:49.680 named Vikram Digwa, who is Sikh and dresses in traditional Sikh garb and carries knives 0.85

00:56:00.760 as part of that chosen garb. You're not allowed to carry certain knives in Great Britain,

00:56:06.300 but there's an exception if it's for your religion. So for example, he carried an eight

00:56:12.820 inch long shastar, which is a knife, as well as a Sikh kirpan, a ceremonial blade. All right. So

00:56:20.800 we're showing a picture of it now and of this particular guy. In the UK, Sikhs are legally

00:56:27.800 permitted to carry a kirpan knife in public as it's protected under religious exemption laws. 0.93

00:56:33.720 OK, so this they the two men had an encounter in which Vikram and Henry exchanged words of some sort.

00:56:44.160 And the next thing we know, Henry gets stabbed four times by Vikram.

00:56:49.760 Those facts are not in dispute that that is what happened.

00:56:53.820 What words were said, whether the stabbing was in self-defense as Vikram is now claiming in court, we don't know.

00:57:02.060 But that's basically what the arguments are. Unfortunately, Henry is not here to testify in his own defense because he died from those injuries. And the police behavior around his dying moments is absolutely outrageous.

00:57:17.180 and one of the things I believe

00:57:18.380 that made this an international scandal

00:57:20.580 because it turned out as he lay dying

00:57:23.120 and handcuffed because his assailant was saying,

00:57:26.640 he called me a racist name.

00:57:27.960 He shouted something racist at me

00:57:30.560 and the cops believed him, slapping cuffs on Henry.

00:57:35.360 Henry was bleeding out and about to,

00:57:39.920 the reports are basically drown on his own blood

00:57:43.060 that was filling up his lungs

00:57:44.860 where he had been stabbed by Vikram

00:57:47.340 and said, I've been stabbed to the police

00:57:51.120 who said, I don't believe you have, mate.

00:57:54.620 And this poor 18-year-old kid is now dead.

00:57:57.460 So his accused assailant is on trial in Great Britain

00:58:00.420 and is acting the choir boy.

00:58:04.980 It was self-defense.

00:58:07.100 He called me a racist name.

00:58:09.740 I was worried he was gonna stab me 0.99

00:58:12.500 with my weird knives. And weirdly, it's actually, there's precious little photography or other

00:58:22.640 pictures of this guy, Vikram Digwa, on the internet. We've looked, but we were passed a

00:58:30.800 video by a source that shows the defendant in his Sikh gear, and he's got the one knife across him.

00:58:39.580 there's this one sort of, I don't know how you describe it, but like a, it's, it's a knife that

00:58:45.060 sort of cuts in half. It's like, it has a 90 degree angle on it. I mean, it's absolutely lethal

00:58:49.740 looking. And in this particular, in this particular video, I think you'll see that knife, or at least

00:58:54.540 a strap to it on his chest, along with a sword, the kind of sword that college kids use when

00:59:02.360 they're doing sword fighting. You know, I think they call it an epi. In his hand, in his other

00:59:07.400 hand. I mean, a full sword walking around the streets of England. And what's interesting to me

00:59:12.320 is you will hear him. They object in the beginning of the video I'm about to show you

00:59:17.660 to him being recorded, which is another thing that allegedly happened during his confrontation

00:59:24.920 with Henry. Henry took out his phone and started videotaping this guy. He reportedly didn't like

00:59:31.740 that. And through one act or another, Vikram, the defendant wound up with Henry's phone on him

00:59:40.000 and his mother is accused of helping him hide some of that evidence. Now, if Vikram did nothing

00:59:46.780 wrong, you would think he'd say, hey, police, here's my phone and here's Henry's phone. You

00:59:51.460 know, you're going to hear a racial epithet on there. That's not what happened. He didn't tell

00:59:54.800 people they found the phone on him. But listen here carefully and you will also hear him objecting

00:59:59.780 to the recording or his friend. Listen.

01:00:29.780 Now, let me tell you something else.

01:00:37.660 My source tells me that this man, Vikram, was known to police.

01:00:42.360 And this wasn't his first brush with them.

01:00:45.600 I find that easy to believe.

01:00:47.400 If he's walking around the streets of England with an actual sword out, it's not sheathed.

01:00:53.140 It's in his hand.

01:00:54.400 He's having yet another angry confrontation with somebody to the point where that person felt they ought to take out their camera and record what this guy was doing.

01:01:03.400 Doesn't mean he didn't kill Henry in self-defense, but it doesn't look good.

01:01:10.280 So let me start with you on it, Jonna.

01:01:12.800 What do you make of this trial?

01:01:14.620 Because it's underway right now.

01:01:17.580 And unfortunately, our friends in the UK have lost their minds when it comes to race, free speech, and even the possibility of a racist thought or word.

01:01:30.940 Here in America, it's not illegal to be a racist or even to say racist things.

01:01:36.180 And believe it or not, that's a good thing, my friends.

01:01:37.980 It's not like we all want to be racist and run around saying racist things.

01:01:40.380 But we don't want to criminalize even the most controversial behaviors or statements that it crosses over into unlawful if you act on it and in the employment context.

01:01:50.360 And that's your motivation for a decision, et cetera.

01:01:53.060 But over in the UK, you actually can get arrested for like being a racist, having a racist thought or behavior or statement could actually get you arrested over there.

01:02:05.140 And I do believe that's why Henry wound up with the cuffs on him, because they took this guy's word for it.

01:02:09.520 Your thoughts? 0.90

01:02:09.860 Well, it's disgusting. And over here, that would not happen because over here, if police happen upon a scene and one guy is brandishing or has weapons on his body and another guy is laying in the street bleeding out, the person with the weapons is going to get subdued first, not the victim.

01:02:27.960 So that's number one. Number two, so many facts about this, Megan, really rub me the wrong way.

01:02:34.080 And for example, I don't care how drunk any college student gets.

01:02:38.540 Do you think that person is going to approach somebody who's wearing knives?

01:02:43.000 I just it wouldn't happen that way. So who really was the aggressor here?

01:02:47.380 Who really was the one making the first move?

01:02:49.560 Who who set out to possibly stab somebody and make this what could be a false claim of self-defense?

01:02:55.840 I have a lot of questions in this case.

01:02:58.900 Megan, Megan, Megan, the police say something major we're leaving out this to me.

01:03:04.760 This is everything. And I'm so glad that both of you didn't say it.

01:03:08.500 So I get to say it. I don't know what the facts are, but I do know that there are stab wounds to the kid's legs, his hind legs,

01:03:19.000 which would indicate that he was turned away from this guy.

01:03:23.940 End of story on self-defense.

01:03:27.320 Yes, because police say that Digwa, the defendant, was, quote, aggressively pursuing Henry, aggressively pursuing him, leaving a trail of blood.

01:03:39.660 After the first attack, Henry tried to flee, but was pursued and further assaulted, being stabbed four times, Mark.

01:03:47.060 So you're right.

01:03:47.820 It's a great point.

01:03:48.660 But he's he's in court right now claiming and of course, Henry's not there claiming Henry called him a racial slur and that he was worried Henry was going to grab his gun.

01:04:01.000 I'm sorry, his knife. I'm focused on America, his knife and stab him with it because Henry was drunk and verbally aggressive.

01:04:10.140 And I guess in this guy's story, in the mood to commit an assault on this poor, innocent Sikh. 0.99

01:04:17.300 Okay. It is so predictable. And maybe it's because John and I do this work all the time.

01:04:22.300 You start with a guy who's not going to say, okay, you got me. I stabbed the college kid

01:04:28.680 because I'm aggressive and I've got issues and I didn't like the way he was looking at me or 0.87

01:04:33.380 maybe something that he said. He's not going to say that. He knows he's going to the pokey for

01:04:37.620 years if he does. So let's go to the playbook. Let's add in something that's the worst you could

01:04:43.440 say about someone, especially in that country, apparently. So he made some of these racial

01:04:47.860 remarks about me. Aha, let's shift it over and make him the criminal. And we'll also say he's

01:04:53.180 unarmed, but he was going to use my weapon and harm me. Aha. OK. And it worked so effectively.

01:05:00.620 This guy played law enforcement like a fiddle because to this guy who's got injuries, he's

01:05:06.900 dying, he's bleeding out. They put handcuffs on him. If that happened here, people would be

01:05:12.580 looking for a new job for sure and maybe would find themselves in the pokey. Yeah. And they

01:05:17.900 didn't they didn't put handcuffs on on Vikram, the defendant, Jonna. That's what's it's so

01:05:22.980 outrageous. They took his word for it that a racial slur had been uttered. They put handcuffs

01:05:29.080 on the man who was stabbed and down. They clearly didn't identify or examine him to see whether his

01:05:35.800 claims of having been stabbed were true because they they were true. Then they were telling him 0.93

01:05:40.800 that they weren't. A post-mortem reports News Nation found that he suffered four stab wounds

01:05:45.800 and a cut to his jaw with two of the wounds, as Mark points out, to the back of his legs.

01:05:50.300 Now, I can see how maybe they wouldn't find the back of the legs if it hadn't bled through,

01:05:54.540 if it whatever. But like you do a cursory examination before you decide whether the

01:05:59.160 man needs medical help or not. And they weren't interested at all. So like Elon Musk is threatening

01:06:05.440 right now or offering right now to fund the wrongful death lawsuit by Henry's family against

01:06:12.280 the UK police. I mean, separate and apart from the legal liability or the guilt or innocence of

01:06:18.160 Vikram, there may be something there in the civil courts. They're very well may because it's

01:06:23.100 absolutely ridiculous that you're handcuffing somebody who's bleeding out and dying. And what

01:06:26.980 did the police do? I'm wondering when they approached the scene, did they just say to the

01:06:31.940 defendant. Hey, you know what? Can you just put that knife in your back pocket for me? Can you

01:06:36.200 not wear it around your neck while we're processing this poor guy who's about to die? Like how? I

01:06:40.760 don't understand how that works. And maybe because I'm not familiar with how they do things over in

01:06:45.880 the UK, but it would never happen here. NYPD walks up to somebody who's wearing a couple of

01:06:50.340 knives around his neck. That guy is going down that he might not get back until they figure it

01:06:55.240 out. And by the way, Megan, you got a full sword. That's crazy. I don't know if he had it that night,

01:07:02.280 but like he clearly walked around with it. Go ahead, Mark. I'm putting myself in the shoes of

01:07:06.180 this this guy, the victim. If I see a man walking down the street holding a knife outward, one that

01:07:13.620 could kill wearing, I might be taking photos. I might be videoing because that would look to me

01:07:19.300 so unusual that i would think something's about to go down that's all i'm saying call me a racist

01:07:26.500 maybe i just don't understand okay that you're you're that that that's a religious thing okay

01:07:31.480 kill me you know for that but i would probably think oh my don't say that right something's

01:07:36.740 about to happen and i'm gonna pull out my phone and keep an eye on him no you know what i would

01:07:41.400 do he was reportedly henry out of there henry was henry was reportedly uh speaking to friends

01:07:47.760 on Snapchat. That's why he had the phone. I don't, I guess it was like a FaceTime kind of situation

01:07:54.080 when he came across Digwa. They did exchange words. Nowak is heard saying, in it bad man,

01:08:00.660 what bad man? You're a bad man. Say you're a bad man. Go on. Digwa responds, I am a bad man. 0.99

01:08:06.820 And Nowak replies, are you a, and this is the only way I've seen it reported,

01:08:11.260 B dot dot dot before the footage cuts off.

01:08:15.480 And I don't know what that what that means.

01:08:18.440 I have no idea what B stands for or what he was asking.

01:08:21.600 And I haven't seen it fully reported.

01:08:23.940 Police were called to the scene. 1.00

01:08:25.400 Bitch. 1.00

01:08:26.120 Maybe. 1.00

01:08:26.720 But that like no one's printing out the word bitch. 0.99

01:08:30.860 You know, like. 0.98

01:08:32.340 I think they might just be able to tell that he said some word beginning with B.

01:08:36.680 I have no idea.

01:08:37.580 Idea.

01:08:38.040 But police were called.

01:08:39.060 They arrested Nowak and Digwa claimed he'd been racially abused.

01:08:43.680 His brother, Digwa's brother, says, we've just been attacked by someone racially.

01:08:48.280 We got attacked racially by some white person.

01:08:51.420 The brother says, he physically attacked my brother.

01:08:54.720 We're Sikhs.

01:08:55.420 We wear turbans.

01:08:56.600 And he attacked my brother.

01:08:58.520 The police body cam footage was shown in court.

01:09:00.920 Nowak repeatedly told officers, I've been stabbed.

01:09:03.020 I can't breathe.

01:09:04.120 They put handcuffs on Nowak, who was lying on his side.

01:09:07.160 He was saying, I'm stabbed.

01:09:08.460 The other officer, the officer told Nowak he was under arrest for suspicion of assault.

01:09:12.760 He said, I've been stabbed.

01:09:14.160 A male voice says, I don't think you have, mate.

01:09:17.220 Digwa, the prosecutor says, did not seek help for Nowak.

01:09:21.960 Instead, he accused him of being a racist and being drunk.

01:09:25.080 After he collapsed, police started rendering aid.

01:09:28.540 Digwa now wants you to believe this was all self-defense.

01:09:31.500 If it were self-defense, wouldn't he have said that in the moment, Jonna?

01:09:36.440 Wouldn't he have said I stabbed him because he was going to stab me?

01:09:41.340 Wouldn't he have said while the guy was lying there dying and his assault charge was turning into a murder charge?

01:09:48.320 He has been stabbed.

01:09:50.340 He has been stabbed. 1.00

01:09:51.960 The guy's in handcuffs that he knows he's not going to get away with this shit. 0.99

01:09:54.860 So, like, he behaved like a man who had consciousness of guilt. 0.99

01:09:59.980 He led with, you know, he made a racial slur.

01:10:03.200 He led with, you know, he made a comment about my turban.

01:10:06.680 It, you know, it reminds me a lot of that's the buzzword that he knew he needed to say,

01:10:10.680 like, hands up, don't shoot, like that kind of stuff was going on.

01:10:14.780 And he just spewed it out.

01:10:16.260 And the police bought it hook, line and sinker.

01:10:17.860 And now we have a dead kid. 0.93

01:10:19.320 So, yeah, it's really disgusting.

01:10:22.580 He says to the police, he came at me.

01:10:24.800 He barged into me.

01:10:26.380 I was racially and physically abused by Henry Nowak.

01:10:29.500 I was petrified as he pulled out his phone to record his attack.

01:10:34.440 But you know what's not in evidence, Mark?

01:10:37.020 Any video of Henry Nowak saying anything racial whatsoever or friends who had been listening to him prior on Snapchat taking the witness stand to say, yeah, I did hear him use a racial epithet and referring to these two Sikh guys.

01:10:54.280 None of that.

01:10:55.180 There's been no evidence other than the defendant who's worried about going to prison.

01:10:59.060 Yeah, I suspect that that might not be true. But putting it aside, let's just say, as you said earlier, let's say because even a prostitute can be raped and even even someone who is a racist, hypothetically, and we're not saying he is, can be, you know, can walk in on the street, not have issues. Right. And doesn't deserve to be stabbed.

01:11:18.080 But I keep focusing on, OK, one guy had the knife. The guy who's walking down the street, the alleged perpetrator is walking down the street. How does he fear that the victim is going to get a hold of his knife? Because that's what we're talking about. The moment before stabbing, did the perpetrator reasonably, reasonably believe death or great bodily harm? And you can say, yeah, I believed he was going to get my knife. How, though? How is he going to get it? You had it.

01:11:46.100 it's not like he was grabbing at it and he took it be detailed how is he going to do that not just

01:11:51.600 in theory he could get my knife so i just stabbed him and i think that that's at best what the guy's

01:11:56.740 claiming well there's more to the story because there are some key videos they're not it's not

01:12:03.080 like our florida courts god bless you mark where we have this sunshine lawn that we get to see

01:12:08.240 everything that happens over in the uk you see nothing so they're not releasing even the evidence

01:12:12.720 publicly, at least for now. So I only have descriptions of the videos that they're showing

01:12:16.900 to the jury. But apparently there was a video shown to the jury of Noak scrambling over a fence

01:12:22.720 to try to escape Digwa after he was stabbed. And a separate video shows Digwa and his brother

01:12:29.360 accused Noak of racially and verbally attacking Digwa. And Noak can be heard denying that.

01:12:36.200 They're like, you called us a racial epithet or whatever. And Noak in his dying declaration

01:12:41.420 denies it. Digwa is heard saying, no one stabbed you, bro. You're something up. I presume effed up.

01:12:50.360 You're drunk. Meanwhile, he knows full well he stabbed him. That's not even in contention in 0.96

01:12:54.500 the court case. But in the moment, he's trying to tell the man he stabbed that he didn't stab him.

01:12:59.380 And the dying man is saying, I'm stabbed and I did not call you anything racial.

01:13:05.240 Another video was played to the court in which Digwa's father was there. He was traveling around,

01:13:10.620 I guess with his whole family, saying he's pretending. A minute ago, he was talking to

01:13:15.260 you guys. Now he's trying to get up and going to leave. Throughout the video, Noah can be seen

01:13:19.060 lying on the floor as Digwa's family and neighbors tell him to sit up and listen to this. Two days

01:13:25.200 after the murder, reports the Southampton Times, police covertly recorded a conversation that took

01:13:30.760 place between Vikram Digwa and his brother Gurpreet, and a conversation, a transcript of it

01:13:38.080 was read to the jury. At one point, the defendant's brother tells him, quote, you should say it was

01:13:43.340 self-defense. I mean, this seems open and shut to me. And I'd be willing to go that far, Mark,

01:13:50.800 if it weren't for the crazy attitudes about race in the UK. They've truly gone nuts. 0.99

01:13:58.700 But it's how the prosecutors handle it. They need to say there's no evidence of him using

01:14:03.300 any racial slurs. But let's just say he did. That's not what we're here for. He's not being

01:14:10.380 prosecuted for that. The issue is whether it's self-defense. And when you've got stab wounds to

01:14:18.460 the back of his legs, they can't justifiably say that that occurred. There's just no way.

01:14:25.520 He's now claiming, Vikram, the defendant, that Henry punched him and pulled his hair.

01:14:36.740 And that's why he believed that he was, quote, going to stab me.

01:14:40.320 I thought I had to do something because I was afraid he was going to stab me with my own care pen.

01:14:46.100 He told the court he was walking to fetch some curried chips from a car when he met Noah coming the other way. 0.98

01:14:53.320 That may be true.

01:14:53.880 Like he was drunk, barged into me, turned around and said to me, you could have moved up a little bit more.

01:15:00.700 Said he then used a racially offensive term before adding, do you think you're a bad man?

01:15:05.320 I'm from Essex.

01:15:06.100 You don't know what people from Essex are on that.

01:15:09.460 No, I started to videotape the defendant.

01:15:12.020 I went to block the phone.

01:15:14.160 I grabbed it as well.

01:15:16.140 This is when he punched me.

01:15:17.620 He pulled my turban.

01:15:19.100 All of this would be on camera.

01:15:20.340 It would be on the video recording.

01:15:22.560 The jury would have seen or heard some of that.

01:15:26.360 And, John, not only do we have the brother saying, say it was self-defense,

01:15:29.540 and the father being like, you're fine, nothing happened to you,

01:15:33.880 as his son has just stabbed somebody four times,

01:15:36.060 but the mother is also on trial because she's accused of hiding the knife.

01:15:40.920 She allegedly hid the murder weapon for her son,

01:15:44.500 which I'm going to guess, never tried a criminal case, 0.51

01:15:48.040 but I'm going to guess probably had some blood on it.

01:15:50.600 yeah yeah this is a family that wants to lie together to avoid being found guilty in this

01:15:59.340 case you know another i want to go back to the point that mark made earlier with the knife wounds

01:16:03.960 on the back of the victim's legs here's why because first of all if this defendant is so 0.98

01:16:09.440 much of a little bitch that he thought pulling hair would be would justify lethal force then 0.99

01:16:15.480 he's got another problem but this is different than somebody who shoots someone as they're 1.00

01:16:21.440 running away now you know if you shoot someone as they're running away the threat is probably over

01:16:26.040 and you too will be prosecuted for that but if you stab somebody on their back side you have to

01:16:33.120 physically be pursuing that person if they're running away you don't just get to stand and

01:16:38.120 there's video right so this video of him running over trying to get over this fence with this guy

01:16:43.960 continuing pursuit this defendant could not have been in fear at that point or and i'm going to

01:16:50.280 guess at any point but he could not have been in fear of bodily harm at that point if somebody's

01:16:54.660 running away and you have the night and you have to go after the person who you say you were in fear

01:16:59.880 of yeah that i really hope they do the right those stabs to the legs further evidence is anger

01:17:07.740 not fear the guy was angry he didn't get in the civil suit that's inevitably coming i'm sure i

01:17:17.320 don't know uk civil law when it comes to wrongful death suits but assuming theirs is like ours and

01:17:21.420 you can bring one the cops are going to have to answer for whether they did know this guy

01:17:26.960 victim vikram digwa whether he was known to law enforcement and whether there'd been other

01:17:32.620 incidents, like the one I just showed you that we got our hands on, showing him angry on the street

01:17:41.180 with multiple knives, including a sword in his hand, a sword, a long sword in his hand, unsheathed.

01:17:48.760 And why, if that's so, when they approached this scene, they didn't give the victim the benefit of

01:17:56.480 the doubt. Why did they jump to accept this guy's word and not that of the man who was lying on the

01:18:02.340 ground bleeding? And the answer, of course, is skin color. It's very obvious the UK has got a

01:18:08.740 pattern now of this. The way this case turns out matters, and we're all going to be keeping a very

01:18:13.540 close eye on it. Okay, let's move on. Something a little lighter, not for the poor woman being

01:18:19.120 accused of this stuff, but for us. This poor woman at JPMorgan Chase, Lorna Hajdini, has had her 1.00

01:18:25.960 reputation ruined by what I think is some sort of wacko psycho. That's my opinion. Um, we've been 1.00

01:18:33.700 covering the story. So the audience has a working familiarity with it, I think, but just for those

01:18:37.500 who don't know, these two worked at JP Morgan chase together. Um, they're high up bankers

01:18:44.300 getting well-paid I think. And this guy is, he is Indian as well of Asian descent and she's white.

01:18:51.780 And he alleges that she engaged in sexual abuse and racial bigotry and that she was his supervisor.

01:18:59.000 She denies every single part of that racial abuse, sexual abuse, and that she was his supervisor. 0.98

01:19:05.240 It's a true he said, she said his tale is so bizarre and detailed and crazy that if it's true, she's a psychopath who should never be employed by anybody again. 0.99

01:19:19.300 Her response is, every word of it is a complete lie, a malicious lie. 0.99

01:19:28.020 We never had anything approaching a sexual encounter.

01:19:32.500 I've never even been to half of the places he mentions in his complaint.

01:19:37.360 I wasn't his supervisor, and there's something seriously wrong with this man.

01:19:41.800 And now she has fought back.

01:19:44.420 One of the questions we were wondering is, like, if somebody, just think about it.

01:19:46.940 If somebody who was in your company or your law firm made the craziest assed allegations about you, like that you committed rape on them and like were this lunatic at every turn trying to sexually harass them and coerce them into sexual acts against their will, you would, you'd sue them for defamation. 0.95

01:20:05.220 You'd be like, this is so effed up. The problem is generally you can't sue for defamation when the allegations are simply made in an HR complaint or in a legal complaint that gets filed with a court. And that appears to be the case here. But she's she's filed a defamation lawsuit now anyway. And she said some of these things. These are all lies, all of them. And they're malicious lies. 0.89

01:20:28.720 They were told with malice, which you tell me, Mark, but my understanding is that's how you get around the general rule that you can't sue somebody for their legal pleading.

01:20:39.800 Because if you can allege they did it with actual malice, then you can.

01:20:44.100 That's the lane.

01:20:45.200 And hopefully that's a lane that she can pursue.

01:20:47.880 I am not as confident as you.

01:20:50.020 I don't know.

01:20:51.500 It sounds to me like it's been made up.

01:20:53.940 The story is absolutely bizarre, but I don't know.

01:20:57.480 So I go to what can be proven. In her answer, and I read through that very carefully,

01:21:04.080 she's saying things like, I was never even in his apartment when he claims certain things occurred.

01:21:11.240 Okay, we got cameras everywhere now. Does it corroborate what he's saying? Does it support

01:21:17.960 what she's saying? If it's just he said, she said, then there's something wrong. It's more likely

01:21:23.400 that didn't occur if there's not a single witness, a text, an email, a person, a busload, a nun,

01:21:30.380 somebody who can support what the guy's claiming? Well, I mean, it would be wrong to say there's no

01:21:36.820 one because now he's submitted two third party witness affidavits to the court. One third party

01:21:43.220 who says it was my apartment where some of these events occurred and I saw some stuff.

01:21:48.500 And one who says, I was present on the night in September of 2024 when a sexual assault allegedly took place.

01:21:58.020 They say, I don't have the details in front of me, but basically he's got two witnesses now.

01:22:05.300 One says, witness one whose apartment it was, that Hajdini invited herself in there and that the plaintiff rejected Hajdini's sexual advances saying, I'm not interested.

01:22:16.380 and uh i guess that both of these what do you make of that witnesses claim that they were

01:22:21.440 eyewitnesses to this are we dismissing those i don't know because i don't know who they were

01:22:24.960 yeah i am i am because i don't know who they are i don't know what kind of credibility they have

01:22:30.480 and this guy seems like a psychopath to me i'm happy to come out and say i'm wrong if it turns

01:22:34.460 out i'm wrong uh you know what do i like you i don't know what do i know i want to know what

01:22:38.560 jonna thinks there jonna what do you think i'm eager to hear what you have to say what do you 1.00

01:22:42.200 I smell her ass. So a couple of things. We don't know the relationship of these two 0.99

01:22:47.240 friends who gave affidavits. We don't know the relationship to the original plaintiff. You know,

01:22:53.040 the woman is now countersuing. So is it plausible that these people are like, hey, if you win,

01:23:01.100 you cut me in. Here's what I'm going to say. No one's ever going to be able to prove otherwise.

01:23:04.920 That bothers me, number one. Number two, the thing that bothers me is here's a person who

01:23:10.540 invited the these two parties up into their apartment where the alleged plaintiff male and

01:23:18.320 then the woman were in this other person's bedroom and then fooling around apparently and then the

01:23:24.920 woman came out and said uh why don't you join us it doesn't make sense like if you if it's your

01:23:30.940 apartment and you're inviting two friends in i guess and to what you know excuse me i'm gonna

01:23:36.360 go make some popcorn you go you guys just use my bedroom do whatever you want i'll be out here

01:23:40.360 it doesn't it that part doesn't add up she is categorically never been in that apartment

01:23:46.220 none of this ever happened she i read through her her uh her complaint where she says no she

01:23:53.040 never touched the guy like i thought this was going to be all right is this another issue of

01:23:56.780 consent we were in a relationship but it was all sensual she's saying nope never never touched him

01:24:03.080 never had a relationship with this guy what do we know about her lawyer forget jp morgan jp morgan

01:24:09.720 says they conducted an internal investigation because this guy did bring a complaint to HR.

01:24:15.080 So, I mean, I'm sure JP Morgan took this as seriously as a heart attack. Like this is

01:24:19.320 one of their top executives. They seem to really like her. And so they wouldn't have

01:24:24.400 messed around with this. They would have made sure she hadn't done this or if she had that

01:24:27.300 they found out. They say she cooperated fully with the investigation and he didn't. They say

01:24:34.280 she turned over her cell phone, said, I'm an open book, like go look through my emails,

01:24:39.180 look through anything you want, and he didn't. So why didn't his alleged witnesses come forward

01:24:45.980 to the hearing? Why didn't he say, speak to these two people? Maybe he did, and J.P. Morgan's lying,

01:24:53.280 but I feel like they might have mentioned that. If he had all these harassing text messages from

01:24:59.840 her, where are they? Why wouldn't he submit those to J.P. Morgan and to HR?

01:25:04.820 So that's that's what I want to know about, like, his lawyer. Who is his lawyer? Do we know anything about him? Is this guy an ambulance chaser who just wants his 15 minutes? Or is he from a reputable firm who we would think would have vetted this case, particularly because it's probably out of contingency. So he thinks that he's going to get a percentage of whatever is recovered here. So he has to believe in the case unless it's again, he's being paid by the hour, but typically contingency.

01:25:29.820 contingency. I don't know, but what I do know is that a year earlier, he was on, it wasn't Legal

01:25:37.360 Zoom, but that's a similar website to the one he used, where you go on there and you can get a

01:25:42.160 legal document and you can actually get a referral for legal advice. He went on, again, it's not

01:25:46.320 Legal Zoom, it's some equivalent website. And he started typing in, I've been the victim of

01:25:52.100 harassment. He said it there by a he, not a she, and at a different bank. He named a different

01:26:00.820 bank. And it was Morgan Stanley, which is not the same as JP Morgan Chase. He said, I'm at

01:26:08.880 Morgan Stanley, which I understand he actually did work at. I'll correct myself if wrong, but

01:26:13.880 I believe he actually did work there. So he's saying it was a guy. I was harassed at Morgan

01:26:20.540 stanley how do i like file a lawsuit and then they give you a referral and i think he he found

01:26:27.220 a lawyer off of that website now that could be one of two things because she's claiming he made

01:26:31.720 these exact allegations before in her defamation case she's saying he's a serial liar like or or

01:26:38.400 at least a serial complainant the most unlucky unlucky fella in the world everywhere he goes

01:26:43.620 the women, the women and men both just throw themselves at him. Can't resist. I mean, if you've 0.93

01:26:50.320 seen a picture of this guy, challenge. I don't believe it. But yeah, so she's claiming that

01:26:58.040 he's made these allegations against somebody else at a different bank before. That could be true 1.00

01:27:03.800 based on that online complaint, or it could have been him testing his allegations, like putting

01:27:09.940 his allegations against her in disguise onto this, onto this website. Cause I have to go back

01:27:16.860 and see, it was like, I think he filled it out while he was already in the employ of JP Morgan

01:27:20.320 Chase, but was just fresh off of an employee at the other place. Um, Oh, okay. Wait now this just

01:27:27.000 in, we're, this is like this, this day we're getting breaking news on all of our stories in

01:27:32.000 the middle of our stories. Okay. Now, Lorna Hajdini reporting from the daily mail has revealed the

01:27:38.360 sickening messages she received after this guy accused her of making him a sex slave.

01:27:43.780 Her attorneys have entered three emails that she recently received into the docket as exhibits to 0.58

01:27:48.100 further illustrate the havoc that this guy Rana's claims are having on her life. And one sickening

01:27:53.960 message received on April 30th, a sender whose name is redacted, wished vicious harm on her and

01:27:58.640 urged her to commit suicide. I hope you get gang raped to the point you want to kill yourself 1.00

01:28:03.320 after you realize what a worthless whore you are. 1.00

01:28:08.460 You effing piece of S, kill yourself. 1.00

01:28:10.820 I sincerely hope your family all die slow, painful deaths 1.00

01:28:14.000 from aggressive cancers. 1.00

01:28:15.440 Wow, it's lovely.

01:28:16.700 I mean, honestly, that's a day in the life

01:28:17.980 here on the MK Show,

01:28:18.920 but I understand for civilians that that would be awful. 0.98

01:28:22.220 Two other emailers propositioned her for sex,

01:28:24.580 one from May 1st. 0.91

01:28:25.720 Your new toy, it reads, my name is redacted.

01:28:28.880 And if you are in need of a slave,

01:28:30.320 I've been searching for a master. 1.00

01:28:31.980 That Arab guy is an effing P word, LOL. If all I had to do was F you and do it real good, 1.00

01:28:38.900 I'd be the president of Chase, LOL. Every man in America wants to F you now. Hope I get a turn.

01:28:43.800 Another writes, new slave. OMG, you bad girl. Fly me out, damn. You got hips. I want to behind 1.00

01:28:49.700 you over the desk. And okay, you get the gist. So this is what this woman's been dealing with.

01:28:56.800 And why is that in there, Jonna, to show us what? That's evidence. I mean, it's not evidence time

01:29:00.980 in her case. But why is her lawyer submitting that? That she's been damaged, that this caused

01:29:05.520 damage to her reputation. It ruined her personal life. It ruined her professional life. How much

01:29:10.640 longer is she going to have to endure texts and emails like that from random strangers because

01:29:16.500 this case has really gone viral? And if this guy is, in fact, lying, that's criminal. That's just

01:29:24.900 not something subject, in my opinion, not just something subject to him having to write her a

01:29:29.920 check or somebody having to write her a check for these kind of damages if you can ever restore

01:29:34.160 harassment is a criminal harassment i'd say at the very least it's criminal harassment and you 0.76

01:29:40.560 know well because defamation cannot be criminal but damn you know maybe it ought to be in a case 0.64

01:29:46.800 like this because her reputation is completely ruined no but let's talk about it if this guy 0.61

01:29:52.960 and this is her theory and to your point mark it's a good caution we don't know i'm me backing

01:29:58.520 her is just what my gut tells me having read his allegations, but I've been wrong before. I've been

01:30:03.140 wrong many times, so I could be wrong here. But if her theory of the case is right, he has made up

01:30:10.600 the most absurd, vicious lies. I mean, I just pulled a couple of the highlights from his

01:30:14.500 complaint that she said, if you don't F me soon, I'm going to ruin you. Never forget I Fing own

01:30:18.580 you. If you don't F my brains out tonight, I'm going to sabotage your promotion. That she called 0.99

01:30:22.840 him her little Asian appetizer, my curry in a hurry, little brown boy, fall in line brownie, 0.99

01:30:27.880 i own you brownie i own your life you gook um brown boy boy terrorist smelly indian curry man 0.98

01:30:34.480 that the entire team would call him um you know she allegedly said i'm still your boss and what 1.00

01:30:41.300 i say here goes trust me i own you if you don't f me soon i'll ruin you never forget i effing own

01:30:47.360 you um she doesn't know she's not she wasn't her hands she wasn't his boss anyway before rubbing 0.84

01:30:52.840 his neck and head i mean this is vile stuff you want this executive director life you want to

01:30:57.620 get paid like me. You're going to need to earn it. My little Arab boy toy that she propositioned

01:31:03.420 for oral sex in the office. Birthday BJ for the brown boy, my little brown boy. Don't forget I 1.00

01:31:07.420 own you. Don't fight it. You smell so good. She allegedly said two days later, I really want to

01:31:11.800 suck your long black. You know what right now? This could be you one day referencing senior 1.00

01:31:17.660 leaders as long as you start pleasing me. It's so vile. It's so X rated and then actually includes

01:31:25.080 an allegation that she gave him Rohypnol and Viagra so that she could knock him out but get

01:31:33.700 his unit to work. We actually promised the audience an answer to whether or not that's

01:31:39.060 medically possible. It turns out it might be. I don't believe she did it, but it turns out it

01:31:44.820 might be. We reached out to Dr. Zaid Fadul, a Harvard-trained physician, U.S. Air Force flight

01:31:50.760 surgeon, chief medical officer at WoundCare360, and said all of this would be extremely dangerous

01:31:56.880 and create cardiovascular and neurological risks, but said erectile function drugs can still work

01:32:05.300 despite severe sedation or incapacitation. And this is a crucial medical and forensic point.

01:32:10.480 He says erections come from two pathways, psychogenic driven by conscious arousal in the

01:32:15.100 brain and reflexogenic, a spinal reflex at the S2, S4 level that works with conscious input.

01:32:22.120 Hypnol knocks out the conscious psychogenic pathway, but the spinal reflex arc is reflectively

01:32:27.860 protected from that top-down shutdown. So reflex erections could still happen in a sedated or

01:32:33.200 unconscious person. Again, an outrageous allegation if untrue, even more outrageous if true, frankly.

01:32:39.640 So why wouldn't there be a criminal charge against him, Mark, if all that stuff I just

01:32:44.480 is made up out of whole clots just to ruin a woman. Yeah. In theory, there should be. I don't

01:32:49.900 know if there's anything on the books where, you know, there is some criminal offense being

01:32:55.520 committed. If he reported this to law enforcement, then there would be and it's not true, then there

01:33:01.120 would be a crime. What I'm thinking of, though, is Jesse Smollett. Right. The details were so

01:33:07.580 extraordinary and so outrageous. Initially, most jumped on the bandwagon and said, well,

01:33:13.700 it has to be true. I mean, and it totally wasn't. And the problem that I have with it is not just

01:33:20.140 what it did in that moment, but what it does for future victims. They have their word questioned

01:33:25.720 more so because of people like this, assuming this guy is lying. So I agree with Jonna. Anything

01:33:33.040 you can do to harm this man in a lawful way is coming his way and is justified based upon the

01:33:40.020 horrific actions that he's taking, assuming he's lying. You know, John, Adam Carolla was on the air

01:33:46.000 with me when this first broke and he made a great point, which is if she did this stuff,

01:33:50.960 there's going to be more. That is not the behavior of a one-timer, you know, who just

01:33:56.780 unleashed that torrent of alleged harassment and abuse, including an alleged rape just on one guy.

01:34:05.640 Just, you know, he was the first one. No way. There should be a line of guys who claim me too, if this is real. But listen to this, more breaking news. Rana, the plaintiff, now the defendant in the defamation case, the man claiming he was harassed, just gave an interview to some paper called The Juggernaut, which is a New York based news website that focuses on South Asian news and says, and I quote,

01:34:35.640 The biggest thing here is if you call this fake, it's just gender inequality says if

01:34:42.200 the roles were reversed, what do you think would happen?

01:34:45.720 So he's claiming the reason we don't believe him is he's a man.

01:34:49.720 And I'm I will cop to that in part.

01:34:52.360 Chirayu Rana is his name.

01:34:54.400 Chirayu. 0.97

01:34:55.200 I will cop to that in part because I believe it is obvious bullshit that as he writes in 1.00

01:35:02.060 this complaint, she went down on him and gave him a blowjob against his will. And instead of like 0.99

01:35:09.480 getting out of there, whatever, he just stood there crying. That's his allegation. Time after

01:35:16.300 time, he was drugged or he was made to cryingly submit his penis for a blowjob by her threats 1.00

01:35:25.000 that he wouldn't make it at JPMorgan Chase unless he did this. He's right. I don't believe that. 0.99

01:35:30.940 And there is a gender dynamic at play. 1.00

01:35:34.320 And that's what but but that's where the gender dynamic comes in. 1.00

01:35:37.960 And I don't mean to sound crass, but it's plumbing. 0.94

01:35:40.720 OK, she's not going to be able to force herself on him.

01:35:45.140 If listen, if that were happening and he wasn't into it, that would be quite, quite obvious.

01:35:50.260 And what was she doing?

01:35:51.920 Throwing Viagra and hypnol down his throat and rubbing his, you know, Adam's apple like

01:35:57.460 you're giving pills to a dog.

01:35:59.440 Like, how is he consuming those?

01:36:01.620 Like, I don't understand.

01:36:02.840 Why is she going to some stranger's apartment?

01:36:07.540 Why is she throwing herself on the man who clearly doesn't want to just sit there and 0.98

01:36:10.880 cries through a fellatio, apparently? 0.98

01:36:14.120 Why? 0.90

01:36:14.760 And to Adam's point, since we don't have men coming out of the woodwork saying, yeah, 1.00

01:36:19.440 this crazy bitch did it to me, too. 1.00

01:36:21.520 Don't you think if she were so abnormal, friends, people in her world would be like, oh, it 1.00

01:36:28.080 was just a matter of time.

01:36:29.040 we knew this was going to happen. But like, she seems like a perfectly respectable person. She's

01:36:34.560 had no issues at this job for she's been there for 11 years. Like, you know, this kind of thing

01:36:39.300 would leave clues that just don't seem to be there. Yes, I agree with everything you said.

01:36:46.160 And I think, look, I don't think this case gets dismissed on the papers, right? Like on the on

01:36:50.840 the pleadings, unfortunately for her, because she'd love to see it dismissed, like for a judge

01:36:56.680 to read his complaint and say absolutely not but it's exactly the wrong kind of case for that he's

01:37:02.660 he if taken the way you judge a motion to dismiss is the judge takes the allegations as true and

01:37:09.180 says if i accept all of them as true has this person's pled pleaded a case pled and pleaded

01:37:15.160 are both correct i just like pleaded better um the answer would clearly be yes right if everything

01:37:20.820 he wrote is true question of jp morgan should have to pay and a lot right and a lot and so

01:37:26.160 this will get past the motion to dismiss phase. It will go into discovery, meaning both of them

01:37:31.640 are going to have to give depositions. His two witnesses will have to go on the record

01:37:35.900 and have their credibility tested. All of his phone records will be turned over. He cannot

01:37:42.000 keep those secret. We're going to see them all. Metadata, all the location services showing where

01:37:47.860 he was, where she was on the various days in question, that's all discoverable. Even like car

01:37:54.120 data. Most people in New York don't drive, but it's possible they have car data that will be

01:37:58.300 discoverable and will show locations. Like we're going to learn. There are ways of kind of learning

01:38:03.180 the truth in modern day America. And I think we are going to learn it. So, you know, put a pin in

01:38:08.460 that case for now. Let's keep going. Can you guys stay over a little bit today or do you have to

01:38:13.520 scram? I'll hang with you, Meg. I have to. Okay. Okay. I'll try not to abuse your time, but we

01:38:21.580 haven't gotten to a couple of cases and we should. There's Alec Murdoch. So Alec Murdoch gets a new

01:38:28.320 trial. He's convicted of double murder for killing his wife and his son, Paul, 19 years old. And

01:38:35.620 sorry, there's, yeah, Paul was 19 and Buster's older. And called a family annihilator. He did

01:38:43.180 it to generate sympathy for himself as his financial world was falling apart. He had

01:38:48.000 embezzled from his law firm. He didn't have the money in like the firm accounts that he was

01:38:54.060 supposed to because he'd been spending it allegedly on a drug habit. The noose was tightening around

01:38:58.760 him on these financial crimes. And in order to make himself look sympathetic, this is the

01:39:03.740 prosecution's theory. We don't know for sure why he did it. He killed his wife and his son. It's

01:39:07.780 very vile, awful story, but he was convicted. And then it just got overturned because it turned out

01:39:13.380 the clerk of court, this lunatic Becky Hill, decided to make it chitchat time with the jurors 1.00

01:39:18.080 practically every time they walked by her as the trial was wrapping up. She's so sweet. Look how 1.00

01:39:22.800 like matronly she looks with her little like doily sweater, whatever. She looks, she's a liar. 1.00

01:39:28.720 She's like a pathological liar in my view. She manipulated the jury. The theory was she did it 1.00

01:39:34.300 because she was hawking a book. She had a ghost writer who was writing it with her and she thought

01:39:38.840 she'd make more money. There was actual testimony to this. If the jury found him guilty, she's a

01:39:45.040 psycho. If that's, that was the testimony. So, okay. He got a new trial, which I agreed with 1.00

01:39:51.580 is you had a juror testify. She did say manipulative things to me about his guilt. 0.76

01:39:56.400 And that was one of the reasons I found him guilty. Ball game. That's it. Ball game. I don't

01:40:01.280 have to convince my two defense attorney friends here with that, but now he, Alec Murdoch has filed

01:40:07.840 a civil claim against her saying, you deprived me of my constitutional constitutional right to

01:40:17.420 a fair trial by an impartial jury. And he wants her to pay up saying if he gets paid, the money's

01:40:24.360 not going to go into his pocket. It's going to go into a defense fund that's paying out to his

01:40:28.200 victims. But he does want Becky Hill or I guess maybe her state insurer, I don't know, to have to

01:40:34.680 pay. How do you like this lawsuit, Mark? Okay. First of all, this was my rant on the last

01:40:40.300 Positively Legal. It's available on the MK True Crime Network. You want to check it out. I can't

01:40:47.480 stand this Becky Hill. Okay. She knew what she was doing. She went in there and numerous times, 0.75

01:40:54.480 it wasn't just one comment, numerous times said things to jurors that tainted this fundamental 0.99

01:41:02.220 due process that we're supposed to have and turned it into crap. So anything you can do to her to

01:41:08.100 harm her further than the three years she got. And by the way, three years probation, wrong P word.

01:41:16.480 Okay. I really do believe that she should have gone to jail for her misconduct, for her perjury, 0.90

01:41:22.440 all the things that she did wrong. The lawsuit against her. Hmm. I don't know about that. I 0.78

01:41:27.900 I think he should tattoo her name on his shoulder prominently because she gave him a get out of jail free card.

01:41:33.560 Not really because he's stuck in there for the federal thing.

01:41:36.180 But now I actually had a now we have to say I was wondering it like allegedly were they were they possibly in collusion?

01:41:42.280 You know, was it possible like this was a deal?

01:41:44.080 Johnny, your thoughts?

01:41:45.620 That would be a very interesting theory.

01:41:48.980 I don't think so.

01:41:49.680 I think Becky Hill was really in it for herself. 0.95

01:41:52.060 Some of the stuff that came out that she's having private meetings and private bathrooms with the foreperson on the jury. 0.98

01:41:59.380 She was literally telling them how to vote. Don't listen to it. That's insane. 0.98

01:42:03.260 And this person has a very big role in a court because she's basically the right hand of the judge.

01:42:08.740 You know, you think that she's, you know, mirroring whatever the judge is probably thinking.

01:42:13.320 It was horrible what she did. He deserves a new trial.

01:42:17.380 Will there be a different outcome in the future? That's yet to be seen.

01:42:21.280 but he absolutely deserved a new trial because of her, solely because of her.

01:42:26.320 Okay. All right. We carry over just a bit on the opposite side of this break. Mark will be here.

01:42:32.000 We'll find out about Shanna. She may or may not. Don't get too attached. Don't go away. We have

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01:44:06.700 all right full-time thoughts craig who stood out brazil's lime cheesecake started bright didn't

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01:44:31.180 available at Tim Hortons for a limited time. Pick some up today and while you're at it,

01:44:34.940 check out Footy Prime Daily. Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news.

01:44:41.700 I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM.

01:44:45.160 It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies.

01:44:51.300 Along with the Megyn Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more.

01:45:00.640 It's bold, no BS news, only on the Megyn Kelly Channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.

01:45:11.700 Mark Iglar, she's the co-host of Positively Legal, and he's back with me now.

01:45:16.280 Go and subscribe.

01:45:17.600 Wherever you get a podcast, you can get this one.

01:45:20.060 Just type in MK True Crime and it will pop up, or you can type in Positively Legal, if

01:45:24.820 that's your thing.

01:45:26.380 All the places you can get it are listed if you just type in mktruecrime.com as well.

01:45:30.720 All right.

01:45:31.220 Mark, great to see you again.

01:45:32.640 Sorry that we lost Jonna, but she had some important court stuff to do.

01:45:36.480 Next case I wanted to get to is what happened in the Tyler Robinson prosecution this week.

01:45:41.700 He is the man accused of murdering our friend Charlie Kirk, and they are having a lot of contention in advance of this trial.

01:45:51.320 It has not gone smoothly.

01:45:52.900 It's a really fierce battle between the prosecution and the defense on virtually every issue, and this week was no different.

01:46:00.560 The prosecution has decided that it wants to conduct a—it's chosen a preliminary hearing to prove to the court that it has enough evidence to go forward with the charges against Robinson.

01:46:11.700 and that's scheduled, but in advance of it, the defense made a motion, and this is where I want

01:46:19.020 to start. They want the press kept out. They didn't want the press to be able to have access

01:46:25.140 to the courthouse through cameras when the actual trial goes down. They didn't want cameras in the

01:46:31.760 courtroom, and they lost that motion. The judge said, we're going to have cameras. We'll limit

01:46:35.780 how they're used, but we are going to have a camera. Then they said, all right, at the preliminary

01:46:40.480 hearing where the prosecution has to show its cards and say, this is the case that we have

01:46:44.620 against him. And the judge makes a decision about whether there's probable cause to hold this guy

01:46:48.560 over for trial. He's going to. They said, we want the media out for most of that. And the prosecution

01:46:56.760 said, why? They don't get kicked out. Like the press is there to represent the people. Why would

01:47:01.780 we kick them out? And the argument was that it's necessary to protect Tyler Robinson's right to a

01:47:08.580 fair trial and to avoid contaminating the jury pool in this already high-profile case.

01:47:15.560 According to the court filings and the arguments last week, they argued the media has already

01:47:20.040 created prejudicial and misleading coverage, that some of the evidence expected at the hearing

01:47:26.260 may ultimately turn out to be inadmissible at the trial, and so they don't want the media

01:47:31.340 hearing about it and reporting on it. And then, I guess specifically, they want us not to have

01:47:37.840 access to alleged Discord and text messages. That's a forum that Tyler Robinson and his trans

01:47:45.800 furry lover, Lance Twiggs, communicated on a lot, Discord. It's like a gaming type social media app

01:47:52.380 where you can talk. Alleged Discord and text messages. Purported confession evidence, Tyler

01:47:58.780 Robinson alleged to have confessed. Surveillance and shooting videos. Witness statements and other

01:48:05.880 forensic evidence. So what do you think is going to happen? I'll just start with that because

01:48:13.120 it's not unusual to have the media at a preliminary hearing in a high profile case.

01:48:19.200 So do they have a leg to stand on? No. And let me just say this. This is coming from someone

01:48:24.000 who has been on the receiving end of all the things they complain about. I can think of one

01:48:29.740 high profile case in particular. My client was getting killed in the media. And I'm referring

01:48:34.600 to scott peterson not the one who killed his wife but is the other one that was accused of not

01:48:38.860 running in to kill the the killer at the parkland marjory stoneman douglas shooting and everything

01:48:44.660 everything that they were printing seemed to be against us a lot of it was false and there's no

01:48:50.600 way to stop it i mean if media wants to run with a story they can run with a story this judge could

01:48:56.520 take some type of action i don't think the judge is going to just because the defense is asking for

01:49:01.460 it. And by the way, every time the defense files a motion, as much as we want justice,

01:49:07.860 don't roll your eyes, people. That's what you want. You don't want this case being tried twice.

01:49:13.620 So the defense needs to do all those things on the checklist to make sure to the appellate court

01:49:19.120 they've rendered effective assistance of counsel so that not if, but when this creep is convicted,

01:49:26.640 This won't come back on appeal.

01:49:29.920 The thing is, it's always the case that the evidentiary standard used at a preliminary hearing is very different from the one used at the trial.

01:49:40.620 Like, of course, more evidence is going to be presented because the standards are different and easier at the preliminary hearing.

01:49:47.720 And the media always hears that.

01:49:49.600 And the way it's always handled is the media is trusted to write in their pieces.

01:49:54.760 This is just a preliminary hearing.

01:49:56.060 This is just a preliminary showing of what they might try to introduce.

01:49:59.360 It's not the final final.

01:50:00.900 And the media, I mean, and the public probably disregards that.

01:50:04.880 We don't know.

01:50:05.400 But this this is handleable.

01:50:07.540 Yeah.

01:50:08.340 I mean, it's handled in every case.

01:50:09.840 I'm not saying that the defense's argument is meritless.

01:50:13.380 In fact, like most legal theories, the courts balance.

01:50:17.060 balance. So on one side, the information that is getting out there could potentially make it more

01:50:24.460 difficult to find fair and impartial jurors. On the other side is our right to have access to the

01:50:32.460 truth, our right to see what's going on in our court system. And when you balance that, knowing

01:50:37.340 the history of high profile cases, how look at OJ, you know, look at look at go on and on there.

01:50:44.640 there's still there are still people who can say, in spite of what we've seen on TV,

01:50:49.400 we can give the defendant a fair trial. And that's the only standard. So, yes, I think that

01:50:54.700 it favors showing people what really is going on. Anthony. Oh, sure. Case. Was there ever a case

01:51:02.440 talked more about than Casey Anthony? There might have been some equal, but I wouldn't I don't think

01:51:08.240 more. Maybe O.J., which was just the biggest of all time. But his is another good case. It was

01:51:12.340 discussed nonstop in the media. Both of those two people were acquitted. That's correct. It is

01:51:17.040 very possible to get acquitted, notwithstanding ubiquitous media coverage. I don't think the

01:51:22.440 defense is onto something here. I don't think the judge is going to allow this, but you know,

01:51:26.940 it's a very high profile, very sensitive case. So I don't know. Here's the second thing. They

01:51:32.140 argued that the prosecutors worsened the problem of misinformation in the media by giving an

01:51:42.140 interview to Fox News in response to a defense submission that the prosecution felt was misleading.

01:51:51.260 And so this is reference to the bullet casing and the autopsy, which went everywhere. Long story

01:51:58.740 short, the defense filed a motion seeking like the underlying or additional ATF reporting

01:52:06.040 on the bullet fragments and the autopsy that was done on our friend. And in the defense motion,

01:52:15.280 they had language that led a fair, you know, person to conclude the bullet fragment that was

01:52:25.200 found in the body did not match the gun that Tyler Robinson had that day, that it was a non-match

01:52:33.560 the way they worded it. And this went everywhere. I remember where I was when I read it. Like,

01:52:39.380 holy shit, what? It was the headline on the Daily Mail. And before it could get like revised at all, 0.99

01:52:46.160 it had already gone everywhere. And it really very much seemed like it was confirmation

01:52:50.100 that that guy's gun, that 30-06 gun from his grandpa was definitively not the murder weapon.

01:52:56.120 So the prosecution says that is why we went out and spoke with very limited media.

01:53:05.120 And here is the one example that is being objected to by the defendants.

01:53:09.060 They gave a taped interview to a reporter who put it in her package for Fox News.

01:53:13.960 And here it is.

01:53:15.340 The examiners were not able to find enough detail on the fragments to be able to make

01:53:21.840 a determination as to whether or not they can tie the bullet to the rifle.

01:53:28.260 So that's just a small snippet out of context doesn't make sense.

01:53:30.800 But it was the prosecution trying to say the fact that they couldn't have an affirmative

01:53:34.880 match with what was left of the bullet does not mean this bullet didn't come from Tyler

01:53:41.840 Robinson.

01:53:42.200 Like saying that there's no fingerprint evidence available doesn't mean he didn't touch a weapon,

01:53:47.060 let's just say.

01:53:47.760 So they're just saying we can't we don't have anything of value to present to the jury to establish the bullet coming from that gun.

01:53:54.120 But we're not saying it's inconsistent with that gun.

01:53:57.320 Well, the defense is purporting to be hop and mad that the prosecution went out and spoke to the press saying, if you didn't like what we wrote in our motion, you should have filed your own motion.

01:54:08.420 You should have objected to the court.

01:54:10.020 You could have called an emergency request for emergency hearing.

01:54:12.940 You could have handled it inside this courtroom.

01:54:14.760 But instead, you ran to the media.

01:54:16.120 And not only was that inappropriate, but it violated rules of professional conduct and the gag order in this case.

01:54:23.740 So we pulled the rules of professional conduct, Mark.

01:54:26.980 And this is what they say.

01:54:30.880 The gag order itself says as follows, reads as follows.

01:54:35.020 Lawyers in this case shall strictly abide by rule 3.6 of the Utah professional rules of conduct.

01:54:43.660 What does Rule 3.6 say? It reads as follows. Rule 3.6 prohibits the lawyer from making, quote, an extrajudicial statement, meaning out of court, that the lawyer knows or reasonably should know will be disseminated by means of public communication will be, you know, public.

01:55:02.800 So far, that's what this is.

01:55:04.040 And we'll have.

01:55:04.500 Check, check, check.

01:55:05.200 So far.

01:55:05.740 And we'll have.

01:55:07.200 Yeah, I agree.

01:55:07.840 So far, they've got them.

01:55:09.140 And we'll have a substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing an adjudicative proceeding in the matter.

01:55:17.260 So did this have a substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing this trial in any way?

01:55:26.280 I don't believe.

01:55:27.020 Materially causing prejudice.

01:55:27.580 I don't believe so, but I would certainly make the argument if I'm the defense lawyer.

01:55:31.460 Point is, stay off the media. Why are you trying your case in the media at all? If the defense

01:55:37.580 didn't raise this in the media, if, and I don't know all the facts, but let's just say what you

01:55:41.540 said is true. The defense filed pleadings, documents with the court. They didn't go on

01:55:46.860 Fox News. They didn't go out there and do a media tour on their points. They filed something in

01:55:52.120 writing. The prosecution then should just file something in writing and we keep it in court.

01:55:57.640 Them running to Fox News, I think it's a fair argument that they're going outside the rules of 3.6.

01:56:06.800 It's not a bad argument, actually, now that I think about it, because, yeah, that would be typically when there's a gag order saying, don't don't talk about this case outside of this courthouse.

01:56:15.640 Yeah. And then you see an outrageous motion and you as a prosecutor are pissed.

01:56:20.520 You're like, everyone now believes that the gun definitively did not match the bullet that was recovered.

01:56:26.580 and i've got to stop this i've got to correct the record on this yeah i mean typically what you would

01:56:32.580 do is you would file your own motion expressing your outrage right like you can be as pissed off

01:56:38.520 as you want in your pleading and then the daily mail would have gotten that too there we go they

01:56:42.800 would have had a day two headline right but instead he spoke to them so you're right he

01:56:47.160 he actually could have his hand slapped i don't think it's going to do much do you like what

01:56:50.560 would be the consequence no and they have their own pr people you know the question is well are

01:56:55.220 they going to pick it up the same way they picked up the defenses thing and you never know so just

01:57:00.500 make sure you got good PR people and you have great relations with the media say can you make

01:57:04.740 sure that this runs you know you do that behind the scenes and then it runs and they're picking

01:57:09.340 up from the pleadings not because you're going out there and spewing your truth the prosecution's

01:57:16.040 arguing they had a right to speak to reporters to correct misinformation about an inconclusive

01:57:21.180 preliminary finding by ballistic experts saying here we were representing the true nature of that

01:57:27.380 report we did not make a statement of opinion about guilt we'll see um okay meanwhile they did

01:57:33.580 reveal this mark that at the preliminary hearing the prosecution is going to present not the actual

01:57:41.060 trans furry lover of tyler robinson whose testimony is going to be very important in this case he's

01:57:47.400 the one who allegedly received the the confession from tyler robinson who was on the receiving end

01:57:52.580 of those texts and uh an alleged note confessing game this guy's gonna be critical i mean if they

01:57:57.180 believe this person yeah we're done that's it that's it yeah yeah he's he he's critical so

01:58:02.960 but at the preliminary hearing they were they revealed now that they're only going to be

01:58:06.600 presenting a video statement by this guy um that clip will be the the first public statement from

01:58:13.000 Lance Twiggs, 22, since the murder. Now, they say he's fled Utah. He's lying low in Texas.

01:58:21.480 What do you make of that? Is that normal or abnormal to take a key witness and just show

01:58:25.880 a video of him? Completely normal, because you're talking about a judge and the standard is much

01:58:31.200 lower. If you're talking about a jury, you get that person in the jury box, you pay for them to

01:58:36.040 fly in, you put them up at a hotel, which is all lawful and totally normal and typical, and you

01:58:41.420 put them there so they can look directly at the jurors when you ask the questions so they can be

01:58:45.440 believed and credible this is just a hearing in front of a judge it's typical i a lot of these

01:58:51.940 hearings don't even do a video they'll just say here judge here's a sworn statement the detective

01:58:55.940 took and a judge who's smart can just read it and accept it as fact you don't need to bring that

01:59:02.860 person in makes sense all so illuminating thank you as always my friend you are positively legal

01:59:10.420 I'm trying, Megan.

01:59:11.660 It's tough.

01:59:12.600 It's tough.

01:59:13.220 Nobody's paying me to come in second place.

01:59:15.340 Megan, it's rough to defend people.

01:59:17.240 Come on.

01:59:18.440 You know.

01:59:19.060 In the law and the news, it is tough to remain positive.

01:59:23.120 But I feel like we've both done a good job of it, generally, generally speaking.

01:59:26.620 Yeah, yeah.

01:59:26.960 Thank you, Megan.

01:59:27.620 Great to see you.

01:59:27.840 Appreciate you.

01:59:29.220 Lots of love.

01:59:29.900 All right.

01:59:30.120 Check out Positively Legal, wherever you get your podcasts.

01:59:33.400 It's free.

01:59:34.760 And I want to tell you two things.

01:59:36.260 this just breaking here as we get ready to close out the show. Sad news. Tulsi Gabbard is okay,

01:59:45.540 but she is stepping down. Tulsi Gabbard producing the following statement. I am deeply grateful for

01:59:53.060 the trust President Trump placed in me and for the opportunity to lead the office of the Director

01:59:59.300 of National Intelligence for the last year and a half. Unfortunately, I must submit my resignation

02:00:03.700 effective June 30th. My husband, Abraham, has recently been diagnosed with an extremely rare

02:00:09.860 form of bone cancer. He faces major challenges in the coming weeks and months. At this time,

02:00:16.280 I must step away from public service to be by his side and fully support him through this battle.

02:00:21.520 Oh, that is just devastating news on so many fronts. I am so sorry to hear this about Abraham.

02:00:27.960 They have a wonderful relationship, and it doesn't surprise me at all that with that

02:00:33.140 kind of a diagnosis, she would step away to go be with him.

02:00:36.100 God bless her and him as they take on this battle.

02:00:39.380 That's daunting and dwarfs everything.

02:00:42.660 On a separate note, I'm so sorry for us because we need her in that job.

02:00:49.000 We really need her in that job.

02:00:51.180 You know, it's just I'm so sad about it because it feels like this great sort of bipartisan coalition that President Trump put together is falling off as he rounds into the year and a half mark of his presidency.

02:01:09.160 You know, Marty McCary was pushed out at FDA.

02:01:14.540 RFKJ has had his wings clipped repeatedly by people who do not support the Maha agenda.

02:01:23.100 And Tulsi Gabbard was, you know, a great example of a Democrat, former Democrat, who went onto the Trump team because we wanted to do things differently.

02:01:33.200 So was Joe Kent.

02:01:34.020 He wasn't a Democrat, but I'm just saying he was more non-interventionalist and in an important role.

02:01:38.080 And he stepped down from the National Counterterrorism Center after the Iran war.

02:01:41.980 And Tulsi, who's also non-interventionalist and is in a really important role and has

02:01:48.700 been very brave in it, I must say, it just sucks to lose her.

02:01:52.920 There's not another Tulsi. 0.73

02:01:54.040 That's the problem.

02:01:55.280 You can get another person to run, of course, of course, there's lots of people who want

02:01:58.700 to serve in President Trump's administration, but there's only one Tulsi Gabbard.

02:02:03.340 This is an important role.

02:02:04.760 This is the person who oversees all of the intelligence agencies.

02:02:08.080 And like, it's her job to come up with that presidential daily brief and make sure President

02:02:11.800 Trump really knows what's what when it comes to the intel that these agencies are putting

02:02:16.600 together.

02:02:17.060 My God, it's a huge job, especially with some of these agencies that we do not trust, how

02:02:22.420 they try to manipulate a president into pushing their own agenda.

02:02:25.680 And those agencies had to go through Tulsi Gabbard, who's not easily manipulated and

02:02:30.220 is smart and had a background in intelligence and in public service, having served in the

02:02:34.920 House for many years.

02:02:35.680 And it's going to be tough.

02:02:38.560 Prayers for her, prayers for Abraham, thanks from a grateful nation, and prayers for President

02:02:45.820 Trump that he chooses somebody great. And I don't know if I can say just as great as Tulsi, but

02:02:50.520 just as interesting, unconventional, unique, and strong as Tulsi Gabbard has been. Lots of love to

02:03:02.060 all of you. I want to tell you before we go that our Memorial Day show is on Monday. We feature

02:03:08.720 war hero Alan C. Mack. I can't wait for you to hear this interview or watch it on YouTube.

02:03:14.880 We sat down together right here in the Red Studio, and he was incredibly composed. He was

02:03:21.840 stunningly impressive. And then we got to the story about him planning, he's a helicopter pilot,

02:03:30.460 like one of, if not the most storied helicopter pilot in the war in Afghanistan. And we got to

02:03:38.160 the story of how when Marcus Luttrell was missing after his unit was killed, his three brothers in

02:03:46.960 arms were killed and he was missing. And the entire military was trying to find him, not knowing

02:03:53.820 whether he was dead or alive. His story featured in the movie Lone Survivor. They figured out that

02:04:02.000 they thought he was alive and being sheltered by a Taliban, not by Taliban, by an Afghani fighter

02:04:07.000 who was working with the US. Only problem was this is the middle of a village that was covered

02:04:12.060 by Taliban. And someone had to plan the mission, the highly daring, dangerous mission of getting 0.90

02:04:17.700 into this town, getting into this house and seeing if Marcus Luttrell, a Navy SEAL, was being sheltered 0.97

02:04:25.900 in there, was being hidden in there by an Afghani. And that man was Alan C. Mack, who said, I know 0.57

02:04:33.060 exactly how we need to do it with the decoys and the explosions over here to divert and how the

02:04:39.240 helicopter pilots would have to get in and get out and what we should do. And when I played for him

02:04:45.060 the soundbite of Marcus and his identical twin brother, Morgan, on the MK show a couple of years

02:04:51.760 ago, where we talked at length about the lone survivor story. And these are two very close

02:04:58.900 brothers, both became Navy SEALs, one missing, and as it would turn out, yes, being harbored by

02:05:06.960 an Afghani fighter, and one with his family in Texas, not knowing whether his identical twin

02:05:13.740 brother was dead or alive, but praying nonstop with his mom and his dad and all their family

02:05:18.560 got the call. And that moment where we play Morgan Luttrell telling the story of what happened when

02:05:29.140 the call came in, the call that was made possible by the planning that Alan C. Mack had done a world

02:05:35.820 away is a moment you are not going to want to miss. And you see Alan's reaction. I'm still

02:05:41.720 thinking about it. I've teared up many times over the past couple of days since it's happened. He

02:05:46.140 is a special guy. And these war stories, they're important that we listen to them. It's just a

02:05:52.620 reminder of what our guys have sacrificed, who they are, how much it took. And you can do it

02:05:58.500 on Veterans Day. You can do it on Memorial Day. You can do it any old day. But it's especially

02:06:03.360 important as we remember the fallen on Memorial Day to take a moment and talk to the ones who

02:06:08.160 survived about the ones who didn't and the sacrifice that was made by those who did live

02:06:12.180 and those who paid the ultimate sacrifice along with their families. Lots of love to all of you.

02:06:17.140 Hope you get some good time with your families. And we will be back. We'll have that episode air

02:06:20.860 on Monday as a new episode. And then we will be back live on Tuesday. See you then.

02:06:26.960 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

02:06:38.160 OZUN gives you a better way to play in Canada.

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02:06:53.880 Whatever your favorite game, we have your playbook.

02:06:59.660 OZUN. Well played.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - May 22, 2026

Kyle Busch's Shocking and Tragic Death, Plus Stabbing in UK, and Female JP Morgan Exec COUNTERSUES, with Mark Eiglarsh and Jonna Spilbor ｜ Ep. 1323

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