Latest Arrest Connected to Karmelo Anthony Case, Nowak Prosecutors Appeal Digwa’s Lenient Sentence, New Developments in Nancy Guthrie Case ｜ Ep. 1348
00:01:15.140We are, of course, talking about Tim's taste of the globe lineup.
00:01:18.020New globally-inspired Timbits and ice cap flavors
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00:01:26.400Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.
00:01:38.080Hey, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, and happy Friday. We made it
00:01:42.620through another week. Later in the show, we're going to have our all-star panel to discuss the
00:01:46.280latest with this Nancy Guthrie case. Are we closer to solving this thing than we think?
00:01:50.320Our news with Maureen O'Connell the other day went viral. She said she's 75% sure that they're
00:01:58.420closing in on Porch Man. So we'll get into it. We're also going to get in in just a minute to
00:02:03.800the controversy in the WNBA over Caitlin Clark. Jason Whitlock has got the inside scoop on this.
00:02:11.420But first, we begin today with a major update in the Carmelo Anthony case. There has now been
00:02:17.620an arrest, reportedly as many as three arrests, down in Texas. And the feds are now reportedly
00:02:25.580stepping in, reports Fox News Digital, following a brutal assault on a Texas woman who was allegedly
00:02:32.940beaten down by a group of suspects chanting, free Carmelo. Fox is reporting that in Longview,
00:02:41.200Texas, police have made this arrest in connection with this alleged random attack
00:02:46.120on a victim by this group of suspects that claim, according to Fox, that they had had said,
00:02:56.200quote, they were going to target the smallest white girl they could find.
00:03:01.020And they did indeed find a white girl who appears to be severely injured. We've got pictures of her
00:03:08.240injuries, which I'm going to show you now. She is we don't have her name. We do know that one
00:03:15.660woman has been arrested for this assault. Here is the victim whose injuries appear all over her face
00:03:22.320and head. Her eyebrow is bloody and looks to have a deep gash on it. The top of her head appears to
00:03:28.420have a deep gash and is quite bloody. There's a picture that they've released of her high-heeled
00:03:33.640shoe, which none of us can quite figure out what we're seeing, but they appear to think it's
00:03:37.560evidence and has blood on it. We can cycle through the pictures, please. And you can see some of her
00:03:43.860injury. She's wearing a neck brace. She's clearly been attacked. This is not this is not neck brace0.98
00:03:49.180that you. OK, now we do have her name. The victim's name is Sammy Lee. This is not the kind of neck
00:03:56.060brace. You know, we had a car accident and we're looking to run up our insurance bills. You can see
00:03:59.420the blood all over this woman's face and head and arrests are being made. The first one is of 21
00:04:05.260year old CRN Fuller of Longview. She is facing assault charges and was booked into jail on a
00:04:12.640$20,000 bond, according to local KYTX. And the locals are reporting at least two other arrests
00:04:21.000as well in this case. Unbelievable. So we don't have any idea what the race of the perpetrators
00:04:27.440is, though I'm going to assume it's not necessarily white if they were looking to
00:04:32.840target, quote, the smallest white girl they could find. But this is in retaliation.
00:04:37.960The report is that this is in retaliation for the Carmelo Anthony conviction. This is insane. Carmelo Anthony attacked and stabbed a young man to death. He happened to be black and the decedent is white. And this wasn't a race case, despite the fact that Carmelo Anthony's family spokesperson tried to make it one.
00:04:59.640and now this small group of people, although it's growing, like the intellectual class,
00:05:05.500so-called, is jumping on board of this. Oh, now we have a picture of the perpetrator. Yeah,
00:05:10.660she does happen to be black. She's there with some crazy hair, blonde tips and dark roots,1.00
00:05:18.360and I guess was allegedly part of this whole thing, now being held on $20,000 bond.0.84
00:05:23.820So they're turning this into a race crime. Like what wasn't a race crime is turning into a race
00:05:28.680crime because there's a collection of people extremely angry about the fact that justice
00:05:35.560applied to Carmelo Anthony the same as it would to any other person who stabbed another boy in the
00:05:42.760heart with no reason. Here to join us on this case and more is our friend Jason Whitlock. He is the
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00:07:12.200this is so infuriating jason the turning of the narrative around carmelo anthony has been
00:07:18.360infuriating from the start and now it's culminating in race-based attacks as some sort of vengeance
00:07:27.340for what that the person who was hurt here was white it was austin metcalf who was the victim
00:07:35.060here the world is upside down megan and we sit here and we're baffled like how did we get here
00:07:42.080And it's been a long process and it takes a lot to understand what is transpiring.
00:07:51.260But, you know, I I what Megan, do you remember the West Memphis three case?
00:07:58.560West Memphis, Arkansas, HBO did three documentaries, three white kids, teenagers murdered three eight year old boys.
00:08:09.440And these were all white kids. Damien Echols, 18, 19 years old, Jason Baldwin and a Jesse Miss Kelly.
00:08:19.160They did the murders and the prosecution argued that this was a satanic child sacrifice case.
00:08:27.660That's what they argued in court. And the jury agreed and convicted these guys.
00:08:33.880that gave Damien Echols a life sentence, HBO jumped in and people like Johnny Depp and Eddie
00:08:41.500Vedder and other celebrities jumped in and said, no, this is satanic panic. And this little small
00:08:51.280town in Arkansas has too many Jesus concerns. And these are just kids and misconstrued and
00:08:59.040they didn't actually do it and they for 18 years the media and hbo hbo put out three different
00:09:05.960documentaries trying to argue that these kids were innocent and eventually eventually they got
00:09:11.480an alfred plea and they became celebrities and heroes and they got sprung from prison
00:09:16.180they did the crime but and the argument was like heavy metal music and say reading stephen king
00:09:26.600books had influenced these kids into this satanic ritual child sacrifice deal. And Megan, I believe
00:09:35.460that the same thing is going on with hip hop music and hip hop culture. It has the same influence
00:09:42.240over young black kids, and it has overtaken black culture. And so hip hop culture believes that0.88
00:09:50.380you touch this kid, you put your hands on me, I have a right to kill you or assault you with1.00
00:09:56.520a weapon of some sort. And they want the rest of American society to bow to their standards1.00
00:10:03.520in hip hop. Any sort of disrespect can be met with violence. This is why you see so many videos
00:10:11.840of black people say, don't you put your hands on me? You put your hands on me. Don't you? And see0.99
00:10:16.860what happens if you put your hands on me. There's a mindset that has been given to black culture1.00
00:10:25.180and black people that's incompatible with Christian American culture and Christian American0.57
00:10:32.140standards. And that's how so many people are running around defending Carmelo because they've0.98
00:10:38.300been brainwashed. You put your hands on him, you pushed him. And in our culture, hip hop culture,
00:10:45.860we can be violent and kill you. And that's how they've come up with the self-defense case.
00:10:51.420and they've got idiots like dominique alexander that represented the family the new al sharpton1.00
00:10:57.660he's a he's he's a convicted felon he comes from this yeah hip-hop baby beater yeah1.00
00:11:04.200prison hip-hop culture and he's out promoting this and and megan you remember when we saw the0.92
00:11:11.640the black kid out in front the black man out in front of the courthouse dancing and jumping up0.73
00:11:15.960and down in front of the white guy and it just looks crazy but we're gonna have to accept like0.98
00:11:22.540hey there is a culture that has gone absolutely nuts and has been influenced by this prison hip
00:11:31.340hop and just quite frankly this african because a lot of this and i'm telling you it's hard to
00:11:39.340understand but i just i just had a pastor named g g craig lewis on my show and he's been talking
00:11:46.300about this for 30 years that black people american black people their obsession with africa
00:11:53.440and connecting with african cultures and from the change in their hairstyle to the changing
00:12:00.000of just their customs and wanting to bring that african culture to america well we have to be
00:12:06.680honest about africa and african culture and how violent and how tribal it is and so we're looking
00:12:14.680at an american culture that's being influenced by african tribalism uh satanic religious cults1.00
00:12:24.880hip-hop is right in line with that if you look at the roots of hip-hop and what they brought and
00:12:29.380what they preach. It's, it's a lot to unpack and understand, but it's very important that we
00:12:36.940understand what we're dealing with so that when we stand against it, no one can call us racist or
00:12:44.780coons or sellouts. It's just like, Hey man, we don't want that African culture crap here in1.00
00:12:52.180America. We don't want religions or beliefs that say, if you touch me, I can kill you.1.00
00:13:00.960We got to reject that. And I know you've been dealing with the slings and arrows, as have I,0.62
00:13:06.820but we have to be even more resolved and resolute to like, hey, this just can't stand.
00:13:13.180Everybody's at risk here. I don't want to live in a society where people can interpret what I say
00:13:19.200as disrespect and then get all up in my face and try to bait me to touch them or have conflict
00:13:26.740with them. And then they get to kill me and, and, and paint me as the bad guy.0.91
00:13:33.080Right. Exactly right. This is, and now like to see it morph into retaliatory attacks. It's like,0.99
00:13:41.280wait a minute, if we're just going purely by race here, a black person attacked and killed a white0.99
00:13:46.840person. If there should be retaliation, it would be the other way around. How are now more black0.99
00:13:53.040people attacking a white girl as justice for this case? And it's because Carmelo was convicted0.99
00:14:00.720and sentenced to prison that we're getting more details now as we speak on the other two arrested.
00:14:08.020They we have their mugshots, too. It's it appears to be a group of black women who attacked0.94
00:14:12.880a white woman. DJ Brown and Alana Mumfrey are the names of the other two. We're showing their
00:14:19.400pictures here. They've voluntarily surrendered now to law enforcement, according to Ladarian
00:14:24.980Brown, Longview police spokesperson. Each faces a charge of assault causing bodily injury. Both
00:14:29.880were booked into jail and released on $20,000 bonds, according to online jail records. Again,
00:14:35.920the victim is Sammy Lee, who describes herself as new to Longview, Texas. She posted on Facebook
00:14:42.200on June 21st that she was assaulted at Whiskey J's, a bar, by three, quote, random women who
00:14:48.760yelled, free Carmelo. Lee said she had not interacted with those women in any way before
00:14:55.960the assault. Let's see. And now, as I mentioned, the Longview police are in communication with the
00:15:02.500FBI, Jason, regarding the case. And why? Because online conversations concerning retaliation,
00:15:10.020division and attacks are increasing so that there's a group of people is this is sort of the
00:15:16.760jasmine crockett street version only actual street not the fake street that jasmine pretends
00:15:22.740she has in her background um who are looking to like exact revenge on random white people0.68
00:15:29.160reportedly i mean they're gonna have to check into this woman's story you know like we don't0.67
00:15:32.480know for sure whether that's what they said and we'll see what their defenses are um but if this
00:15:36.680is true. This is deeply disturbing. This woman's injuries are no joke either.
00:15:41.080Listen, and I'm not trying to be provocative. And look, it is what it is. Black people have
00:15:48.980been convinced that we're victims of white supremacy. We're not victims of our own choices.0.77
00:15:56.860We don't control our destiny through the music, through our education system,
00:16:02.660through everything the left has done the identity politics and all that you're a victim and you have
00:16:10.560a right to be violent towards the people that you believe are your oppressors and at some point like
00:16:18.200we like america did uh before the civil war during the civil war during jim crow america had a
00:16:26.920conversation with itself say hey man white people have a racism problem that has to be addressed
00:16:31.600head on. We now need to say black people have a racism problem and they're practicing a form of0.99
00:16:39.560religion that is destroying them and now looking to destroy the rest of America. We have to be1.00
00:16:48.580that direct and that honest. I get why most people are afraid. Corporate America doesn't
00:16:54.580want you to say that and it could put you out of a leadership position or get you targeted over1.00
00:17:00.900social media but if we don't have a real honest conversation about what's going on with the black
00:17:08.140church and how it's lost course and has gone into racial victimhood and again as a christian any of
00:17:17.040or those of us that just have christian values within us we don't believe in victimhood
00:17:22.160america is the land of opportunity it's not the land of oppression people from around the world
00:17:29.300and people of all colors aren't trying to get into america because it's the land of oppression
00:17:34.600it's the land of opportunity and and there's a documented history of white christians
00:17:44.200fighting for the freedom of black people and black americans and black giving money to africa and all
00:17:53.220this other stuff white people are not perfect they're just as flawed as everybody else but this0.98
00:17:58.520rap that they're like out to destroy uh black people and black americans it's a lie and there's0.98
00:18:06.720all kinds of evidence that it's a lie and and white people what they've done is said like help0.99
00:18:13.980you adopt this christian culture and we're good we don't care what color you are that that is the0.56
00:18:19.200true story of america and black people seem to be saying uh you know we don't share those values0.82
00:18:29.280everything needs to be based on skin color and and you know we're gonna be tribal based on skin0.98
00:18:36.540color while being tribal like africans over in africa that war and destroy uh black people0.99
00:18:43.820and white people and so we get the the worst of of all of it we you know black on black crime is0.98
00:18:52.620out of control now black on white crime and just the smearing of america and white people it's all0.95
00:19:00.280out of control you know what we're experiencing here is no different than what's going on in south0.61
00:19:05.760africa uh white people are being targeted by black people out of racial animus and everybody has to
00:19:13.120sit around and be quiet and pretend like it's not happening i'm not going to pretend anymore and we
00:19:19.140can't i mean we're taking it all the way back to the carmelo anthony case a 17 year old boy was
00:19:25.820stabbed in the heart for pushing a kid uh at attract me we pushed and shoved all the time
00:19:35.620when i was a kid that's what kids do they don't stab each other in the heart and and a guy has
00:19:41.220stabbed and killed a 17-year-old kid. And somehow he's being turned into the victim by politicians,
00:19:50.120mainstream television broadcasters and pundits. This is insanity. And we have to stop it.
00:19:59.420It's awful. It's awful. And it's like, truly, this one's so crazy to me, because it's like,
00:20:04.200we've almost become, I don't know, inured to cop unleashes fire on a black man. And then we're0.95
00:20:13.140going to have riots. We're going to have weeks of media coverage, putting it on a loop. It's
00:20:17.800going to be misrepresented. And there could even be retaliatory violence like we just saw. But this
00:20:23.700is this is so bizarre. This is in this case, a black man killed a white man, teenagers. That's0.98
00:20:30.100what happened and then was held to account in a criminal court of law by a jury and a judge and
00:20:36.260a whole trial. I like, how is there retaliatory violence against whites? This is just bizarre.
00:20:43.400And it's something, something's definitely happening. And I know you're speaking generally,
00:20:46.660you don't speak about all black people in this way, but there's definitely a collection
00:20:49.920that's had a very bizarre outsized reaction to this verdict that is showing, shining a light
00:20:58.200on an underbelly that is dark and disturbing um let me say one last thing and i'm sorry but
00:21:05.060hey look the indifference to what happened to austin metcalf that's just as sinful as anything0.97
00:21:12.920else and so the people that aren't shouting down the idiots and so i i'm not i don't want to paint0.99
00:21:20.180a broad brush and obviously there are black people like myself but black culture in general0.99
00:21:27.280has been so influenced by the depravity of hip hop0.97
00:21:32.280that too many black people are indifferent0.64
00:21:36.040about what happened to Austin Metcalf.0.97
00:21:38.740And that's just as bad as the people0.94
00:21:41.880that are out seeking violence and harming white people0.96
00:21:47.760because it's that indifference that's kind of a passive okay.0.97
00:22:16.400Trust me, the music that you listen to while the child is in your womb, when the child is growing up,
00:22:22.340It affects their soul and their mentality.
00:22:26.700And we're letting kids listen to this depraved music.
00:22:30.720And the point I was making about the West Memphis Three is that, like, white people saw this with heavy metal music and called it out in real time.
00:22:41.320And they got pushed back and all that other stuff.
00:22:43.920But they're aware, like, music has an influence that we don't fully understand.
00:22:50.660And if we're going to allow all this profanity, all this sex talk, and young kids know all the lyrics to this, don't be surprised that when they get to be teenagers, they're participating in teen takeovers and just doing violence and rioting for no reason.
00:23:12.300Their minds have been groomed for this.
00:23:13.540No, Jason, you're not the only one saying that.
00:23:15.600we we've had on dr leonard sacks who is an expert in childhood psychiatry and child rearing he's
00:23:21.880been he's a worldwide recognized expert in children and their psychology and so on and
00:23:27.920he has been making a similar point he remember him using just an easy example to remember on
00:23:32.800our show talking about how um because i said to him jason i'm like those of us who grew up in like
00:23:37.740the 70s and the 80s we really had no parents so you know like why are you so worried about what's
00:23:44.220on TV and radio because back then we were raised by TV and radio, you know, like parents didn't pay
00:23:50.720any attention to us back in those decades. And he said, it's different now because you put yourself
00:23:56.440in front of the TV or your kid in front of the TV and the radio without you there now. And they're
00:24:00.840hearing those kinds of messages that you just talked about, you know, about like killing and
00:24:05.660violence and sex and disrespect for authority figures, including your parents. And the mess,
00:24:11.700like sort of the babysitter, is very, very different than it was in the 70s when it was
00:24:16.940like the Brady Bunch and Little House on the Prairie.
00:24:25.860The pop culture actually affirmed the values that you wanted to instill to some degree.
00:24:35.060Not all of it, but again, I grew up watching Dennis Domenice and Father Knows Best and
00:24:40.180the Brady Bunch and my three sons yeah my yeah those values were like those are good values that0.86
00:24:47.340they're affirming in those shows now all of pop culture is telling you screw your parents screw
00:24:54.360authority change everything you don't even have just change is good change we can believe all the
00:25:01.120stuff Obama basically affirmed that if you're changing something that's a good thing well hold
00:25:06.140on. You know, what if you're Megyn Kelly, and you're beautiful, and the change they want Megyn
00:25:13.980Kelly to do is, hey, overeat and become 200 pounds. Well, that's not good change. So all change isn't0.99
00:25:23.680good. There's some things that were built into America that don't need to be changed, period,
00:25:29.600end of story um forgive me for bringing up a tough topic but i i think it fits here which is
00:25:38.260uncle jimmy was murdered i i can't believe this he was your co-host for years you guys came on
00:25:46.180this show it was during the summer because i remembered i was down at the jersey shore when
00:25:49.800i was talking to you both watch this what made you say you know what would add to this i i want
00:25:55.480to bring back jimmy i want a partnership there well you have to remember jimmy uh in how many
00:26:03.440years ago three years ago jim was still in kansas city kansas he was uh this is a true story yeah he
00:26:11.080was a uh sergeant i worked in law enforcement for 17 years i was a sergeant in in the sheriff's
00:26:20.040department in kansas city kansas and and i decided i was going to bring him on to my television show
00:26:26.800at fox sports uh to play the role of my uncle on my talk show speak for yourself and people thought
00:26:34.780i was crazy and and people thought i was crazy yeah people well you were crazy so they they were
00:26:41.160but they thought i was crazy for wanting to do it the guy works in a jail he gonna crack jokes
00:26:46.800on tv now what are you talking about and so i had to twist arms and beg and eventually they allowed
00:26:54.640jimmy to come on uh to move out to la and appear on my tv show speak for yourself and he was
00:27:01.480murdered recently he was only 64 yes what happened jason uh three teenagers black
00:27:12.840uh i think got into dispute uh with one of jimmy's sons earlier in the day
00:27:20.460and circled back and shot up uh jimmy's house and jimmy was sitting in his driveway
00:27:29.100in his car about to run an errand and got shot in the back of the head uh and yeah it's
00:27:37.280Because the random violence that we talk about all the time and the young kids out of control, unfathered, again, it's like we want to reject the fact that, you know, if 75 percent of your kids are growing up in a home with no father, that's a problem that has to be addressed.0.99
00:27:58.720The matriarchy is not going to fix that.0.93
00:28:02.820Fathers have to come back into the homes so that there's peace, there's an authority figure, there's someone that is a protector and a provider.0.98
00:28:14.660You know, we want to pretend like a single mother can do what two parents can do, and it's just not true.
00:28:22.280And my parents divorced when I was four or five years old and I was raised primarily up until my senior year of high school in the home with my mother.
00:28:32.020But my dad was always involved. And then my senior year of high school, I live with my dad.
00:28:36.960But but I'm under no illusion that, you know, things would have been better had my parents stayed together and that that system produces better fruit than the single parent fruit.0.68
00:28:48.740But we can't talk about it because you get called racist or a coon for talking about it, or you hate women, you're sexist or whatever.
00:29:02.120I believe the Bible, but I believe the data even more, that two parents do a better job than one parent.
00:29:09.780Two parents create a better neighborhood and community than neighborhoods dominated by a single parent.
00:29:18.000It just is what it is, but they've used race to silence us away from just common sense and things that have been proven over thousands of years.
00:29:30.360We don't have to debate whether two parents are better than one.
00:29:34.640We've got thousands of years of data that says there's been no society, no great society built that wasn't built on the back of the nuclear family.0.80
00:29:43.720uh and so you know i guess we're going to try to be the first and the early results the primaries
00:29:51.180have been decided it's not going well it's it it's if you want to look at what single parent
00:29:58.940and the matriarchy can do look at the american black community look at the sat scores look at
00:30:05.200the incarceration rate look at the teenage pregnancy rates look at all of it the results
00:30:11.260are in, it doesn't work. Well, I'm very sorry for your loss, Jason. I liked him. He was fun.
00:30:18.080And I was shocked to hear that news. Yeah, I know. I know. And you guys went way back. I know.
00:30:24.060Okay. Now we got to get to this controversy in the WNBA with Caitlin Clark. I've been following
00:30:29.940your coverage. Jason has been analyzing these clips and what's been happening with her on the
00:30:35.740fever, like the Zapruder films. And I am here for it. That's why we first booked you. I'm like,
00:30:41.760I want him to walk me through all of this. So I'm just going to lay out what my producers put
00:30:45.980together just to get the audience up and running. And then you're going to take it. It's, it's so
00:30:51.620fascinating your take. And I told you've convinced me 100%. All right. So this all started on
00:30:56.260Wednesday. Well, it started before Wednesday, but the latest chapter started Wednesday when
00:31:01.860the league released its 30th anniversary poster and we're showing it on the screen right now
00:31:06.520caitlin clark the league's biggest star she's responsible for huge ratings sold out arenas
00:31:12.040she's not on it okay and there are recent players on it uh like i think angel reese is on it okay
00:31:17.900why is she on it and caitlin clark is not on it that's the question some people are suggesting
00:31:22.080it's because she it's a licensing issue uh that she like that she hasn't allowed that but we
00:31:29.340haven't heard that from the league itself. And it does seem weird to me that the WNBA wouldn't have
00:31:33.760permission to use Caitlin Clark's image. So we don't know. All right. Because it's absolutely
00:31:39.280baffling. But that wound up not even being the biggest controversy on Wednesday, because in
00:31:43.480Caitlin's game that night against the Phoenix Mercury, Mercury player Alyssa Thomas lodged her
00:31:50.520fist into Caitlin's neck in a play where no foul was called during the game. We're showing a still
00:31:57.140of it right now. I'm not a sports expert, but I mean, it does seem like a foul. It seems like a
00:32:04.020clear foul. Even I can see that. Now the WNBA upgraded the play after the fact, because there
00:32:10.800was all this outrage after the game, because nothing had been called. It was like, well,
00:32:13.900how is that not a foul? So then they upgraded it, which they can do after a game has ended,
00:32:17.480not just to any foul, but to a flagrant two foul. And Thomas got suspended, but just for one game.
00:32:23.760So many critics are saying, what's that? And she got fined something like a pittance. I think it
00:32:27.320was a thousand bucks and she makes 1.2 million a year. According to Caitlin's coach, who's going0.51
00:32:31.960to play a pivotal role in our discussion with Jason here, that was not the only cheap shot
00:32:36.500by the Mercury that night. You can see on your screen, a Mercury player fouling Clark on a
00:32:41.760three-point attempt, not giving her space to land safely, which I'm told you're supposed to do.
00:32:47.560People who have played basketball say this is exactly the type of play that can lead to a
00:32:51.560nasty ankle injury, which is why they often call it as a foul, but not in this case.
00:32:56.260And there are allegations that it's a pattern when it comes to Caitlin Clark, that the league1.00
00:33:02.340and its refs allow her to get beaten. I mean, physically beaten, not beaten in the sports
00:33:09.480lingo, without calling the fouls because they can't stand her. Pretty much everyone hates0.99
00:33:16.920caitlin clark in this league she maybe have a couple of friends but everyone hates her and you
00:33:22.980know there are real questions about why is it just normal professional jealousy is it a race thing
00:33:27.600is it a sexuality thing because 74 of the league according to some reporters are um well first0.63
00:33:35.040black and then some huge portion of them are also gay why does it why do they have to be gay why are0.89
00:33:40.140there so many soccer players gay and why are so many basketball players gay with the women i'm0.99
00:33:44.380saying. I don't get it. Whatever. But in any event, they hate her. Now, Caitlin, back to this0.97
00:33:51.340game in which she got the punch to the throat, she ultimately walked out of the game before it
00:33:58.460was over. I think it was third quarter. And they said nothing. The announcers weren't talking about
00:34:04.320it. It was like the biggest player in the league just walked off in the middle of the game. And
00:34:09.180then they kind of came back up and they were like, oh, it's a back injury. And Jason Whitlock
00:34:14.200says if you believe that you haven't been paying attention because there is a dynamic that caused
00:34:19.060caitlin clark to walk off of the court that day and it had in his opinion nothing to do with her
00:34:27.340back okay take it away my friend so let me there's a bunch of things you said let's the closeout play
00:34:35.900where the woman uh is contesting caitlin's shot there was a foul called on that and caitlin went
00:34:43.500to the line and shot three free throws what they didn't review is whether that was a reckless
00:34:49.800closeout which would have required an additional uh uh five or free throws but there is a foul
00:34:58.320that's why caitlin clark went to the free throw line and shot three free throws as it relates to
00:35:03.220the poster you you covered that pretty well in terms of potential licensing issue but what what
00:35:10.440is left out of that is like hey the WNBA is controlled by this Marxist mindset that hey
00:35:20.820everybody should get something and and you know we got to share things equitably equally blah blah
00:35:27.600blah and so Diana Taurasi is widely considered the greatest WNBA player of all time she's white
00:35:36.500she's not on the poster either and so caitlin clark not being on the poster and this is celebrating
00:35:43.66030 years of the wnba and there's old players on there there's current players on there the whole
00:35:48.560nine years the greatest player arguably in wnba history also isn't on the poster and so there may0.99
00:35:56.980have been a licensing issue with diana tarasi or it may have just been this stupidity of hey you0.66
00:36:04.680know, let's leave Taurasi, let's leave Sue Bird's not on there. Let's leave Caitlin off and let's0.96
00:36:10.340showcase these other people because that's what's equitable. And so that's the lunacy. Instead of
00:36:16.040doing what's best for business, hey, let's put Caitlin Clark on here. She's got the biggest fan1.00
00:36:21.780base. They'll be more likely to buy the poster. So those are the first two things I just wanted0.99
00:36:27.700to add a little clarity to as it relates to the foul on caitlin clark the fist to the neck area
00:36:37.300you put it down in slow motion you you put a still photo up and it looks like the worst thing in the
00:36:44.540world when you watch it in real time if you play caitlin's reaction and how quickly she got up
00:36:52.480And when she goes back down court and you look at her and look at her facial expressions and body movement, this thing's being exaggerated.
00:37:02.980And I'll make a very provocative analogy.
00:37:06.380It's being exaggerated the same way Derek Chauvin on top of George Floyd, greatly exaggerated.
00:37:38.520Yeah, she does seem like a bona fide thug.1.00
00:37:40.720Just my own research, I know nothing about the WNBA, but just my own research showed three examples where team coaches were going jihad on her.1.00
00:37:49.680Like, what the F with this player who's actively hurting multiple women in the WNBA?1.00
00:37:55.120She's got a foul on Angel Reese that's much worse than the Caitlin Clark foul, just for clarity.0.98
00:38:10.860And that's how she's an effective player.0.98
00:38:12.700The Phoenix Mercury, because of Alyssa Thomas, whose wife is on the Phoenix Mercury as well, named Dawana Bonner.0.70
00:38:24.020And Dawana Bonner played briefly last year for the Indiana Fever and left and quit and basically forced her way onto the Phoenix team so she could be with her wife, Alyssa Thomas.
00:38:38.380well they do have a problem with the indiana fever and they do think that intimidating caitlin0.91
00:38:45.740clark trying to intimidate there's a white girl on the team named lexi hole they try to intimidate
00:38:51.380her and they play physical with her all of this is par for the course for elissa thomas and dwana0.84
00:38:57.400bonner and the type of thug ball that they play with everybody in the wnba so as it relates to0.99
00:39:06.580does caitlin clark get treated unfairly in the wnba yes she did her first two years her rookie0.99
00:39:16.560year and last year these players had a real problem with her and they were extra physical
00:39:22.920with her and the league addressed it this offseason implementing new rules called about
00:39:29.000freedom of movement and so the rep the games are ref completely different and the players for the
00:39:35.840most part are completely different because they got a new collective bargaining agreement that is
00:39:41.880paying them six to ten times more than they were ever making in the wnba and so the the animus0.98
00:39:50.240around caitlin clark has dissipated this season other other than the they finally realize she's
00:39:56.540getting them paid yes and so other than uh the phoenix mercury no one has really messed with0.80
00:40:03.280caitlin clark that way players that i saw that used to be extra aggressive aggressive with her
00:40:08.660they're now joking with her before the game even during the game it's all dissipated but most
00:40:14.920people have the old narrative from 24 and 25 and they're applying it to what they just saw here
00:40:22.240and they're also ignoring or they're unaware because most people are passive watchers of the
00:40:30.540WNBA. They see the highlights. They're just not informed. There's a dynamic between Caitlin Clark
00:40:36.920and her head coach, Stephanie White. They've been at each other's throats now for two years.1.00
00:40:44.000They don't like each other. She's white too. Stephanie, just for the record, is a white woman.0.99
00:40:47.800A white woman who, like Caitlin Clark, I'm from Indiana. Stephanie White's one of the greatest
00:40:54.300high school basketball players in the history of indiana like caitlin clark she went to a home
00:41:00.560state school purdue and lifted purdue up the way that caitlin clark lifted iowa up stephanie white1.00
00:41:08.080led purdue to a national championship then was a first round pick in the wnba didn't have a great0.99
00:41:14.980WNBA career but then became a coach in the WNBA and has had some success in the WNBA. She failed1.00
00:41:24.520as a college coach at Vanderbilt. She's returned to the WNBA, had a little bit of success and
00:41:30.900previously coached this Alyssa Thomas thug and, you know, co-signed that style of basketball.0.98
00:41:37.740The other thing about Stephanie White, like Caitlin Clark, she came out of college with a longtime boyfriend who she married and transitioned while in the WNBA to the alternative lifestyle.
00:41:54.460And she is now married to Lisa Salters, the ESPN sideline reporter, black woman.
00:42:03.920and so she's married to a black woman lisa salters and there are people like me that are
00:42:12.360following this closely it's like they want to convert and transition caitlin clark and stephanie
00:42:18.880white may be a part of that they have similar black grounds you know they were because stephanie
00:42:24.780white in her playing days and even now is a relatively attractive woman and she was an0.97
00:42:29.840attractive young athlete that had a boyfriend got married blah blah same caitlin clark track same
00:42:35.400deal as caitlin clark and they are at odds over style of play and and if you really watch what1.00
00:42:43.860happened thursday five minutes into the third quarter caitlin clark had a bad play through the0.99
00:42:52.000ball turnover didn't hustle back on defense and gave up an easy layup stephanie white hops out0.95
00:42:59.320of her chair and angrily calls a timeout the coaches go and huddle the players are sitting
00:43:06.500on the bench and there's fans have sent me videos of like I was in the arena here's what happened
00:43:13.660you can see it for yourself that Caitlin Clark is sitting on the bench with the other five players
00:43:19.320that are in the game and she's planning to go back into the game Stephanie White eventually
00:43:25.300comes into the huddle, points at the backup point guard, Raven Johnson, and replaces Caitlin Clark1.00
00:43:32.640five minutes into the third quarter. This is like, you don't do this to your best player.
00:43:39.020You don't do this to virtually any starter. We're only five minutes into the third. Why am I getting
00:43:43.380pulled out? And Caitlin Clark, you can see by her body language, there's no her talking to a
00:43:51.260trainer about my back there's no informing not wincing she's not holding back she's not like
00:43:56.880bending over the way we all would you know we everyone's had a little back pain here or there0.97
00:44:01.500there's katie clark standing there yeah and when she walks fine yes and when she walks away0.99
00:44:07.820it looks like it looks like but it's not accurate two trainers are following her when she walks
00:44:15.500away but if if this is the right video you'll see the trainers uh like the woman with the ponytail
00:44:23.160yep she circles and takes a seat behind the bench she does not continue to follow caitlin clark
00:44:29.260so caitlin clark the best player in the league the biggest draw in the league allegedly has a
00:44:35.680back injury but she's getting no attention from the trainers she's just walking back into the
00:44:41.380arena and and then for the next 12 minutes of real time not game time but just real time
00:44:50.420the broadcast crew never addresses where is caitlin clark she's not on the bench she's not
00:44:57.560on the court they're not and and megan you and i know that 12 minutes of tv time might as well be
00:45:03.80012 hours you don't leave some issue unaddressed for 12 minutes and why people they're playing the
00:45:09.800game you're giving the the audience no explanation the biggest star the reason why you're watching
00:45:14.920the game has disappeared and we're not telling you that she's disappeared we're not trying to
00:45:21.080even attempt to find out why she's disappeared someone had clearly told the broadcast team
00:45:26.900we don't know why caitlin clark has disappeared we don't want you to address it and so it wasn't
00:45:33.060really until the start of the fourth quarter that they came out with this weak explanation of caitlin
00:45:39.020clark won't return it's a back injury and then they show an edited video of caitlin leaving
00:45:45.580and and paint you can see her grimace you can't see her grimace they're just lying
00:45:51.000and so the story bottom line for us like what so why what like to me you're telling me she had a
00:45:58.920hissy fit and took her ball and went home because she wasn't getting played like this is an example1.00
00:46:04.320of Caitlyn behaving like a spoiled brat yes because she is and most players with her talent0.67
00:46:13.300are most players with her talent and success and what she did at Iowa and it has to be coached out0.96
00:46:20.840of them and that is where I'll defend Stephanie White to some degree she's trying to coach the0.88
00:46:27.520brattiness out of caitlin clark caitlin loves to uh cheerlead on the court she loves to tell the0.99
00:46:34.980crowd what to do and she loves to tell the officials what to do and this has been going
00:46:40.500on since high school and college uh you her dad would be at iowa games and they show him on camera
00:46:47.620telling caitlin hey shut up and you know mind her own this is just part of a personality quirk that
00:46:53.920caitlin clark has doesn't make her the worst person in the world it makes her a person that1.00
00:46:58.540needs some correction and she's getting it from someone she doesn't respect stephanie white0.95
00:47:04.920they're at each other's throats and caitlin clark walked out she'd had enough walked off and you
00:47:13.100know bad explanation they eventually concoct after 12 minutes of trying to figure out what to say0.66
00:47:18.840But no one wants to talk about that dynamic because they just want to talk about Alyssa Thomas and Caitlyn, you know, stabbed her.1.00
00:47:30.140These hens, like it's like, OK, a lot of drama with these ladies.
01:16:06.340So I want to actually provide more context as to what that second note said.
01:16:11.040The way that this note was written, it's written as we, like we didn't know this, as if it was some sort of team or whoever was involved in this.
01:16:19.280It said, we did not fully grasp the seriousness of her physical condition.
01:16:24.360It went on to say that they never intended to hurt her during all of this.
01:16:28.760They continued and said, she perished shortly after she was taken.
01:16:33.560They believe that it was heart related.
01:16:35.460And then what the reports were confirming earlier today, that she was buried with nature.
01:16:40.040And maybe the most important part of the second ransom note, it said,
01:16:44.100nothing you could have done could have changed the outcome.
01:16:53.800Along with being, first of all, Megan, great to be back with you.
01:16:56.720Along with being a criminal profiler, I'm also a forensic linguist.
01:17:00.120And I cut my teeth on the Unabomb case, got my master's degree at Georgetown after that.
01:17:04.940So I've been dealing mostly with language in cases, you know, since the mid-90s.
01:17:10.380And I've helped, you know, resolve a bunch of them to identify anonymous authors, whatever.
01:17:14.480And the first thing I always want to understand when looking at something like this, we're using the word note you did and the reporter that you showed.
01:17:23.860I think what we're describing, that was an email, correct?
01:17:28.180Well, all I know is that in the case of TMZ, they were uploading it on the tips website part of the team.
01:17:39.160You know, so like that was one of the ways that they were reportedly masking who they were is like you go on there and you upload it and it's unidentifiable.
01:17:48.240So I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I know the friend, the friend notes are being described by Harvey as as emails.
01:17:57.100As for the original one and two, those I don't know.
01:18:00.940All right. And the content is what we would be looking at here.
01:18:04.100But the question is, I would still want to know how they are being transmitted, how they are winding up.
01:18:08.820This would have been so, so easy for the kidnappers, and I use that word loosely here, from day one, from night one, to leave some kind of a note on the table.
01:24:01.780I'll have to wait till Monday, but I want it Monday and I want 6 million, you know?
01:24:07.580So I think that's very, very, this is all very interesting to me.0.99
01:24:12.820You know, some of it looks pretty stupid.0.92
01:24:18.020And I've got a question, and I don't want to interrupt you, Megan, but I've got a question for Jim.0.98
01:24:26.240And, you know, he specializes in linguistics.0.72
01:24:33.460Jim, you and I know the type of personality pretty much that grabs women like them.0.91
01:24:40.000I mean, you're usually psychopathic kind of personalities, you know, that's going to, you know, show up at 2.30 in the morning, break in to this 84-year-old woman's house.0.98
01:25:18.640so then you're going to spend 40 minutes
01:25:21.620in there doing whatever you're going to do0.96
01:25:23.640then the next thing you know this woman is being taken from her house okay now i'm not hearing
01:25:34.500or i have heard nothing was taken from her house right the only thing they pretty much that i heard
01:25:40.600was stolen was her okay so now i've heard the same so she's being taken from her house right
01:25:47.680So now, I'm not hearing about clothes missing that a kidnapper would need to keep her in.
01:25:54.380I'm not hearing about medication that a kidnapper would need to keep her alive.
01:26:00.160I'm not hearing about any kind of sanitary stuff that a woman that's going to be kept in captivity for a number of days before she's traded for money is missing.
01:39:06.460with a white band was on the floor of her bedroom.
01:39:11.000Now, I don't know whether they made a mistake there,
01:39:13.660but that is the first I've seen that reported anywhere.
01:39:16.160And of course, all the news organizations were asked to withhold some details because, you know, if they get the the guy, they want to be able to test him with information that the public could never have accessed.
01:39:26.760But there it is. I mean, how else like if you're a fraudster trying to take advantage of this poor suffering, suffering family to try to get them to send you four million bucks or six million if they wait till Monday, how would you know that there's an Apple watch with a white band that was on the floor of her bedroom?
01:39:45.460That's now we're getting really specific. And maybe that's exactly what investigators found.
01:39:51.100That's that's not even the kind of thing like a maid two weeks earlier could attest to, you know, like that's you were there.
01:39:58.280You saw something the night of the crime. Like I'm starting to glean why they may believe these notes.
01:40:04.780These first two were authentic, John. Well, that's very possible.
01:40:08.220But, you know, if you also go to theory that somebody is really obsessed with Savannah and they're following this case, you know, from head to tail and they're following the news all the time, because that's what they do.
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01:48:18.380So it's telling from a number of perspectives.
01:48:20.860Now, the CBS.com report said that the perpetrator described Apple Watch with a white band on the floor of her bedroom.
01:48:30.100So, you know, if you're just somebody taking a shot, that's risky to say that's where it was when you don't know.
01:48:39.760So you could know about the Apple Watch with the white band.
01:48:42.280I don't know that you'd be able to say where it was the day she was taken.
01:48:45.440And the other piece of it is Howard Bloom reporting specifically, he's adding this. He says the first note actually also correctly described what Guthrie had been wearing on the night she was abducted. Again, how accurate, how closely did they describe it?
01:49:04.420you know, you could, I know what my mom sleeps in every night and you could, if you, if you hit
01:49:09.180the category, I'd probably believe you. Um, but if this person actually said, you know, it was like
01:49:15.420leopard pajamas and that's what it was, you'd believe him. Like the FBI knows how close this
01:49:22.420guy came to the mark. And again, Harvey, who's been in constant contact with the FBI is reporting
01:49:27.820that the FBI believes the first two are authentic. Savannah's constant contact with the FBI believes
01:49:32.360the first two notes are authentic, like belong from the kidnapper. And my information was that
01:49:37.240the second note, the ransom, sorry, the apology note, whatever we're calling it, these she's now
01:49:41.520died note, that the reason they believed it was from the first guy was that it also had a reference
01:49:46.720to the same Bitcoin account as was in the first. But that is somewhat contradicted by reports out
01:49:55.640now that there wasn't a renewed demand for payment so why would they which i believe like
01:50:02.380everybody's saying there was no new renewed demand for payment in the second note so why would he
01:50:08.080even made reference to the bitcoin maybe they're just maybe the first report was wrong that there
01:50:14.580wasn't a second reference to the bitcoin account and it was simply the ip address such as it was
01:50:20.280obviously masked and so on, was traced back to the same location, obviously masked or not,
01:50:26.660that it matched the first note to the second. Here's, okay, so that's all that. But here is
01:50:31.620what I want to ask you guys about. The Harvey friend contact, friend of the kidnapper who
01:50:38.680keeps texting in to Harvey or emailing. He is emailing Fitz. My conclusion is, my amateur
01:50:47.120sleuthing this person is definitely not the same person as the person who wrote the first two notes
01:50:53.920because now we figured out the timeline the first two notes demanding payment for four or six
01:50:59.220million and then the oh i'm sorry she died those happened the first week nancy had disappeared
01:51:04.360she was taken on a saturday into a sunday the first note came we believe on tuesday basically
01:51:10.680saying pay us by Monday or else. Um, and the Thursday deadline for the 4 million passed.
01:51:18.880And then they received the second note saying she died before it was time to pay
01:51:25.400number, you know, the 6 million. The whole point is the first week they allegedly had Nancy taken.
01:51:32.460They received one note saying 4 million or 6 million. They received the second note saying,
01:51:36.320not never mind, but she's died. Whoops, she's died. That's what led to Savannah and her siblings
01:51:41.740coming out and saying on video, we understand. We really want to celebrate with our mother.
01:51:49.820This is important to us. We will pay. And the belief now is that this is them not explicitly
01:51:55.900acknowledging she's dead, as they've been told, because they don't want all of us to go away
01:52:26.900but this the friend of harvey doesn't appear until second week second week and his first
01:52:35.920message says time is of the essence i've seen them and suggested maybe in mexico then a day
01:52:43.040or two later sends another note saying time is no longer of the essence telegraphing like
01:52:49.100she's died now like between his first note and second note but the other person a week earlier
01:52:55.860pulled the same routine give us the four to six million or else and then a couple days later
01:53:02.300she died so this is not the same person i mean maybe it's the same fraud being perpetrated
01:53:07.360from different angles but that's what's happened so initially i thought maybe friend of harvey
01:53:12.880was dovetailing at the same time as the first two-letter guy and initially they were like right
01:53:19.320you know pay pay pay time is of the essence they both were kind of saying that and then they
01:53:22.760initially were both like, and nevermind, but that's not true. It was a week later. And it's
01:53:28.620part of the reason why I think friend of Harvey is completely bullshit. I've, I have an open mind0.99
01:53:33.540on the first guy. Friend of Harvey seems like a complete fraudster. And last but not least,0.89
01:53:38.500let me play what Harvey Levin said just a couple of hours ago, as he revealed friend of Harvey or
01:53:44.260friend of kidnapper has been in touch yet again. And this is what he said. Stop 49.
01:53:50.920Only two are directly involved. He says that he has video. He has video of Nancy Guthrie with the main kidnapper, he says, while it contains, what it contains is my definition of delivering it on a silver platter.
01:54:13.700a short video of the main guy with Nancy the day that was probably her last.
01:54:21.340He also says that he has names, addresses, phone numbers of the kidnappers.
01:54:29.400Now, he says he has that video in a phone, and the phone is turned off.
01:54:38.800It is in a secure, secret location, but a location easy to find if you know where to look.
01:55:29.480He's getting off that it keeps getting reported and he's on TV and he's hearing about himself and he's getting off to that and he's trying to get a Bitcoin in the meantime.
01:55:40.680This guy, you know, I look, I can be wrong, right?
01:55:46.140But I wouldn't give this guy 10 cents, let alone a Bitcoin.
01:55:50.660Yeah. And you heard Harvey later come out, Fitz, and say, if you're real, go to wherever the phone is, get a screen grab of something proving you're not a liar. If you've got something, send it. You've been sending us more than a dozen emails. Send us something to show you're not a fraudster. That's not going to happen.
01:56:13.340And by the way, Fitz, do you remember when this guy sent his first or second note to Sheriff Harvey?
01:56:18.480He said, you won't be hearing from me again.
01:56:22.060OK, it's been like 10, 10 notes later.
01:56:26.340Harvey's begging him to send something proving he's not a fraudster.
01:56:29.720And I think we all know where that's going to lead.0.98
01:56:58.660Why all this game playing, this showmanship, these machinations going back and forth
01:57:04.020and people guessing and folks like us discussing this on the air, which is fine
01:57:08.220Because we have limited information. And of course, I'm going to say again, the investigators would be remiss if they didn't follow through on this. But I hope they're telling Savannah to please, you know, don't get overly what's the right word, but don't get overly confident that this is something that's going to come to pass because we wanted proof of life.
01:57:26.480And we never really had that a bit. I mean, a Fitbit or the Apple Watch, whatever it was on the floor and describes it.
01:57:33.780OK. And Megan, by the way, that picture you showed of Savannah with her mother with the watch, I assume that was public before the abduction.
01:57:42.060Correct. We think so. I actually asked my team where we got it and they said it's been circulating online, but by all people who are watching this case.
01:57:52.140so but it had would have to be right because nancy's been missing and i mean whether it was
01:57:58.480public on the today show said whether it was public or not on facebook or whatever is what i'm
01:58:02.920or what i'm suggesting here so if the person wouldn't know how to describe the watch if this
01:58:07.160was a private collection you know that that savannah never put out there all right that tells
01:58:11.300us a little something more if it's out there and megan i was on with you i think live one day
01:58:15.860And you found and your team found a walkthrough of Nancy's bedroom.
01:58:22.260And there was a video that, you know, years before, and I'm probably the older woman hasn't changed her bedroom that much.
01:58:30.320And I think you even commented, you know, your mother, remember my mother, you know, you just don't change much when you get, you know, past 50 or 60 in your bedroom.
01:58:38.080unless you actually move so it wouldn't be hard to watch that somewhere and then in fact come up
01:58:42.960with this uh you know this uh this this inside singular knowledge that only the real kidnapper
01:58:48.940knows and again i'm saying this was an abduction not a kidnapping for but jim you don't find it
01:58:54.100you don't find it persuasive like if if the cops got there and that apple watch was on the floor
01:59:02.100that's good that that would convince me this was actually from the real kidnapper i'd have to
01:59:09.980yeah and and i i would agree with you megan on that particular note but it also doesn't mean
01:59:18.160these are the kidnappers and i'm not sure the guy who abducted her would have put some letter
01:59:22.920out like this making it look like a kidnapping as opposed to an abduction and really quick the
01:59:27.760other point I wanted to make here, there have been for-profit criminal kidnappings over the years,
01:59:34.000hate to go back, 94 years, Lindbergh. The baby died within 10 minutes of being brought down the
01:59:39.360ladder in Hopewell, New Jersey, and Hoffman buried the body there. But the kidnapping, I'm sorry,
01:59:44.880the ransom request went on for two years. Sidney Riso was shot in the arm in 1999. He's the Exxon
01:59:50.580executive in northern New Jersey. And he died a day or two later, but the husband and wife
01:59:55.040kidnapping team kept up all the negotiations for the next six to eight weeks or so. So why did the
02:00:01.700person, so if she did die, why did they give up on the kidnapping? There had to be a lot of planning
02:00:07.460with this, whether from overseas, locally, whatever, whether the kidnap mastermind was
02:00:13.840somewhere else, and this was local talent that he hired to go in with the mask and the Doc Holliday
02:00:20.100holster in front of him and and and carry through there but why just give up on the kidnapping if
02:00:25.960you had that proof of life send something send the pajamas or at least cut a piece off that the
02:00:31.280mother was allegedly wearing and say we have her here's the pajamas she was wearing she's okay
02:00:36.040give us the money they would have paid that money in a heartbeat uh knowing that kind of proof but
02:00:41.460everything is so nebulous so amorphous that i don't blame them i'm glad they didn't pay the big bucks
02:00:47.580to these people with such little information to provide. Again, successful abduction,
02:00:53.120you can criticize the interactions there on the porch, but a half-assed kidnapping,
02:00:57.880and I would just further surmise, it never was meant to be a for-profit kidnapping by
02:01:02.940legal definition. John, our pal Howard Bloom, who's reporting in Airmail,
02:01:10.160restarted this case this week because he was the one who first revealed some of the contents of
02:01:15.560the second note. He is reporting that there's a case of regret happening right now amongst law
02:01:23.720enforcement because they are starting to think they should have just paid the $4 million and
02:01:28.820then followed the money. And that would have gotten them to somebody, which would have given
02:01:32.900them some answers. And again, the reporting is that the FBI thinks that $4 million demand came
02:01:38.780from the actual kidnapper. Here is Howard on, I don't know where he was this week, but he was
02:01:46.540on Inside Edition. And he was talking about this theory in terms that John Wayne fans may find
02:01:54.440familiar. It's not 56. The $4 million ransom was never paid. And investigative reporter and
02:02:00.980bestselling author Howard Bloom says detectives he spoke to are regretting that decision today.
02:02:06.660Not to have done that originally, when the window of opportunity was there, was perhaps a very big, even a fatal mistake.
02:02:14.580He says Tucson police considered using what they called the Big Jake Theory, a tactic inspired by the 1971 John Wayne Western, Big Jake.
02:02:26.820In the movie, John Wayne's grandson is kidnapped, and he chases the bad guys.
02:02:31.520he has a plan he's going to pay the money but also get the money back and his grandson back
02:02:38.720and the cops refer to that because that's what they feel should have been done in this case
02:02:43.120they should have paid the ransom hope to get nancy back and then worry about getting the money back
02:02:47.800bloom believes the kidnappers got the idea to kidnap nancy after savannah returned home to
02:02:53.980shoot a special for the today show last november the best thing about tucson is coming home yes
02:02:59.220you guys i believe someone in tucson saw this and they saw look at these people they have so much
02:03:05.880their life is so blessed and in their greed they came up with this scheme to take savannah's mother
02:03:13.260so what do you make of that john the thought they should have just paid the four mil yeah
02:03:18.020no if you listen to what he said there he said the tucson police he didn't say the fbi
02:03:24.540you follow me i i would not if i would not if the fbi didn't go along with that wholeheartedly
02:03:32.020i would not go along with it i would pan the tucson police track that i don't know can i
02:03:40.040do i believe the fbi could track that bitcoin transaction absolutely you know one other
02:03:46.960question uh two questions i have that i think are important the one question is that her king
02:03:53.840did anybody say that her cane was out of the house that the cane was missing from the house
02:03:59.000i don't i have not heard that the cane was either left behind or taken i don't know anything about
02:04:05.540it okay because that's that's important for some guy that's apologizing right for uh you know or
02:04:11.080or or or seemingly putting together some kind of empathy you know uh for the woman and then the
02:04:19.260other thing again i go back to what you brought up megan about the news and the watch and everything
02:04:26.900uh you know being found on the floor uh on the news i mean these guys watch everything i'm telling
02:04:34.000you they're gonna want this guy who's out there's watching this and this brings me back to what jim
02:04:38.500said early on in this interview in this show okay jim you talked about him being scared whoever this
02:04:46.120guy is right now. He's scared. Talk about that. Well, especially Fitz, because did you hear what
02:04:55.040Maureen said on this show on Wednesday? I heard a few things. I know she put a 75 percentile
02:05:00.680mark out there. Yeah, I'll play it just for the audience that didn't hear her. But we love Maureen
02:05:06.040and she's former FBI, too. And she said the following two days ago. The person we're talking
02:05:10.660to could say, wow, they're probably closer than we think they are. Could you just expand on why
02:05:15.000you think they're wrapping like they're getting there that they're close to making an arrest
02:05:18.760i think they're getting close to the porch guy and when they when they get the porch guy
02:05:29.280the floodgates shall swing open what's your level of confidence on that 75 that's big news i know
02:05:39.320she's not loosey-goosey maureen's careful she's considered she's bright and she's got connections
02:05:46.560so that was very interesting and it did make a lot of news it went everywhere so your thoughts
02:05:50.220yeah uh and i trust maureen implicitly and if she has sources that i don't have right inside
02:05:56.340the investigation good for her and of course if that person was identified that would open the
02:06:02.120floodgates or whatever she said there i agree 100 so uh i mean he is the kidnapper whether there was
02:06:08.440someone else or abductorized. Let me go back to that word. But and then whether someone else
02:06:12.520helping in the car, whatever, we don't know that. But but there's gonna be an alpha male who's in
02:06:17.800charge of this. If there's a second if there is a helper, a second person, it's going to be the
02:06:22.040alpha male. That's what my profile went out. You know, at the end of February, early March, when
02:06:27.420this thing just hadn't been solved. And he's the one that of course, the investigators have to
02:06:32.800focus on. And I think everything else here gets them and floats them. And it doesn't have anything
02:06:37.020to do with the case itself. And again, you talked a little bit, Megan, early on about the regret
02:06:41.920the task force members may feel. And I've been on task force, Unabomb task force,
02:06:47.060and the DC sniper task force. And when the next victim occurred, when the next victim was killed,
02:06:53.020you felt like shit. And you felt awful. What could we have done different? Why didn't we get,1.00
02:06:58.780make the arrest beforehand? I remember before I even showed up at the Unabomb task force,
02:07:02.540They did an interview or something in Playboy magazine, I think, and a very legitimate interview.
02:07:07.920Playboy would have good journalism back then.0.95
02:07:11.500And then there's two killings right afterwards, and they felt so bad, two bombing victims by the Unabomber.
02:07:17.640And they felt somehow their article, their interview, things they said about him could have contributed to him.
02:07:22.880But then we finally got in the cabin, got all his written communications, and these murders and these particular people were planned well before that came out.
02:07:29.660So, as John said, this person has no remorse, no compassion for anyone.