The Megyn Kelly Show - Left's 14th Amendment Fantasies, Novak's Big Victory, and 9⧸11 Memories, with Alan Dershowitz and Marcellus Wiley

00:00:00.620 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.960 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Monday.

00:00:17.220 It comes every week. We have to get through it. Let's do it together.

00:00:19.760 We've got a great show lined up for you today, but first, first, we do want to acknowledge this day.

00:00:25.240 Anyway, this day, September 11th, is a hard one for many of our fellow Americans.

00:00:30.760 I feel like it's still a hard one in many ways for yours truly, too.

00:00:35.020 I mean, it doesn't seem like it's been 22 years. Does it? 22 years?

00:00:41.280 I was just listening to our pal Emily Jaschinski over at The Federalist,

00:00:44.660 and she was interviewing a bunch of Federalist employees who were two, two when 9-11 happened.

00:00:50.980 I mean, it's just, they have no memory of it, right?

00:00:53.280 There's a whole generation that's out there doing great things that has no active memory of it.

00:00:58.620 But the feelings really are so raw for many.

00:01:02.140 22 years have come and gone since the unfathomable attack on America.

00:01:06.560 It took the lives of nearly 3,000 people, and the iconic skyline of New York City changed forever.

00:01:12.240 And so did our national identity. So did part of our soul.

00:01:15.860 When terrorists flew passenger planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon,

00:01:19.820 and one plane that ended up in a field in Pennsylvania, thanks to the brave passengers on board.

00:01:26.660 Days later, then-President George W. Bush stood atop the rubble at Ground Zero

00:01:30.520 and delivered this iconic moment.

00:01:33.820 This nation stands with the good people of New York City and New Jersey and Connecticut

00:01:39.560 as we mourn the loss of thousands of our citizens.

00:01:47.020 I can hear you.

00:01:54.640 I can hear you.

00:01:56.440 The rest of the world hears you.

00:01:58.340 And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon.

00:02:15.340 USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

00:02:24.760 That moment is one of the reasons so many of us who took that in live at the time

00:02:32.960 will always have a soft spot in our hearts for President Bush.

00:02:37.080 Notwithstanding the foreign policy debacles that followed,

00:02:40.680 he brought us together at a time when we were ripped right down to our fabric apart.

00:02:46.240 It didn't matter if you were a Republican, a Democrat, an Independent.

00:02:50.420 What mattered back then, we were all Americans.

00:02:53.120 We loved each other, we loved our flag, our political differences were secondary.

00:02:59.340 The weeks that followed showed the world the best of us,

00:03:01.900 from the first responders who rushed into the danger,

00:03:05.620 to the everyday Americans who gave their time and money to help the victims.

00:03:10.480 Just weeks after that terrible day, then-President Bush came back to New York City

00:03:14.040 and threw out the first pitch at Yankee Stadium.

00:03:18.840 We wanted to show you the whole thing because it's a moment that could not happen today.

00:03:23.960 That's how it feels.

00:03:25.160 It just feels like this couldn't happen today, given our divided politics.

00:03:29.400 For tonight's ceremonial first pitch,

00:03:33.740 and please welcome the President of the United States.

00:03:38.900 Thank you.

00:03:45.080 Thank you.

00:03:47.320 Thank you.

00:03:52.720 Thank you.

00:03:55.000 Thank you, Mr. President.

00:04:25.000 And the crowd went wild.

00:04:28.780 The ace of the pitch coming from a baseball family.

00:04:34.480 And the chance of USA, USA, USA.

00:04:37.880 I remember my husband, Doug, who lost a very good friend on 9-11, had registered for the

00:04:43.760 New York City Marathon that year.

00:04:45.940 I don't remember.

00:04:46.600 I met him after.

00:04:47.420 But he tells the story of how he had registered with a bunch of those guys to run the New

00:04:51.460 York City Marathon.

00:04:52.520 And it's a lottery system.

00:04:53.760 You know, you may or may not get in.

00:04:55.840 And it was, I think he said, nine days before the marathon.

00:04:59.440 And he got a notice saying he had been accepted.

00:05:01.960 He was the only one amongst their circle of guys who were all grieving the loss of their

00:05:06.680 friend.

00:05:07.580 So he did it.

00:05:09.080 He put on his sneakers.

00:05:10.300 He wasn't really a runner even.

00:05:11.940 But he decided if he could run eight miles that day that he would do the 26-mile marathon.

00:05:16.560 And he completed it with bloody feet by the end because the people were so inspirational around

00:05:25.520 New York City that day.

00:05:26.660 They held the marathon, notwithstanding 9-11.

00:05:29.820 And the people with their USA signs and their flags cheered on the runners at every turn.

00:05:36.260 They were singing patriotic songs and they were cheering on just a moment in which New York proved our spirits had not been broken.

00:05:45.080 I had just left New York right before 9-11.

00:05:49.360 And I'd been living here for years as a lawyer and had moved to Chicago when the actual attack happened.

00:05:53.820 But my license still read 71 Broadway, where I had lived until a couple months beforehand.

00:05:59.780 One of the planes that hit the Trade Center lost its engine on top of that building that I lived in.

00:06:07.140 And I used to go to the World Trade Center all the time just to read the paper, to get my coffee, to go to the Barnes & Noble there,

00:06:14.400 to go out for a drink on the windows of the world at the top with friends and go dancing sometimes.

00:06:19.500 And so it's personal for anybody who lived in and around New York.

00:06:23.080 It's personal for most Americans.

00:06:24.680 It's one of the reasons we don't like seeing politicians or anyone else make light of that day or use it for politics in any way.

00:06:33.280 And it's sobriety, its importance is one of the reasons why we don't particularly love it when our president doesn't bother to show up at one of the memorial sites,

00:06:43.020 as is happening with President Biden today.

00:06:46.480 He's going to be in Alaska instead.

00:06:50.160 This is a day on which we remember those who were lost on that terrible, terrible day 22 years ago.

00:06:55.840 And we reflect on the fact that it's not over.

00:06:59.180 Since 9-11, another 331 FDNY members have succumbed to post-9-11 illnesses.

00:07:07.460 In fact, the greater numbers are much, much higher than that.

00:07:11.280 Most of the families would put it into the thousands.

00:07:13.640 They now say that more have died from cancers caused by working in and around Ground Zero than were killed on the actual day.

00:07:21.320 I mean, it's just absolutely chilling, not to mention those who gave their lives fighting for the country in Afghanistan and Iraq.

00:07:29.180 We also reflect on this day of what it means to be an American.

00:07:33.440 What does it mean to be an American?

00:07:36.080 The rights that we stand for, the way this country was crafted, the thing that made the terrorists hate us so much,

00:07:43.840 much of which is enshrined in the U.S. Constitution, including the Bill of Rights,

00:07:48.820 and declared, of course, in the Declaration of Independence, which preceded it.

00:07:52.780 But those rights, our inalienable rights as human beings, are important, they remain important,

00:07:59.940 and they remain what makes America special.

00:08:02.300 We have rights written down and recognized that go unrecognized in most parts of the world.

00:08:08.580 Most parts of the world, you look at what happens with free speech up in Canada,

00:08:13.620 where Jordan Peterson is undergoing a mandated re-education course because he made some true comments about biological sex.

00:08:22.620 You look at what's happening over in the U.K. even on free speech.

00:08:26.420 They don't have what we have.

00:08:28.480 What we have is important.

00:08:29.760 It's worth protecting, and it drives other people to hate.

00:08:33.540 It doesn't mean it's not worth standing for.

00:08:37.480 It certainly means it's worth fighting for.

00:08:39.940 And those of us who are alive on 9-11, and I hope to believe even the next generation,

00:08:44.040 will never forget why we were attacked that day and the unity we felt as Americans once we were.

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00:09:33.400 Joining me now, Alan Dershowitz, author of the increasingly relevant book, Get Trump.

00:09:39.280 Alan, thank you for being here.

00:09:41.560 Well, thank you.

00:09:42.780 Somebody who loves the Constitution just as much as any American I know on the meaning of this day.

00:09:47.540 Well, two thoughts.

00:09:48.700 One, I was about to teach my class of first-year students when the planes hit,

00:09:55.940 and the school decided to cancel classes.

00:09:58.560 I wrote a note to each of my students saying,

00:10:00.740 no, my class is not canceled.

00:10:02.440 Come, we'll talk about it.

00:10:04.540 Let's talk together about it.

00:10:06.160 I had TVs brought into the classroom.

00:10:08.760 These were kids, many of whom were away from home for the first time.

00:10:12.200 I didn't want them to be alone in their dorms,

00:10:14.660 and I wanted them to be surrounded by other people.

00:10:19.100 That's one thought.

00:10:20.040 The second thought is Yankee Stadium.

00:10:22.060 Today, you can't even hear the song, God Bless America,

00:10:25.900 sung by Kate Smith, one of the most uniting themes ever written.

00:10:31.120 But Yankee Stadium won't play that song because Kate Smith was accused of having sung a song

00:10:39.440 that people disapproved of back when she was a child.

00:10:43.380 And the third point, you talked about free speech

00:10:46.280 and how there's less free speech in Canada and England.

00:10:50.280 Just come to Harvard University,

00:10:52.240 which has been ranked the lowest university in the entire United States

00:10:56.880 in terms of free speech.

00:10:59.060 Shame, shame on Harvard for not understanding the spirit

00:11:03.220 of freedom of speech as reflected in our First Amendment.

00:11:07.060 Yes, I saw that.

00:11:08.520 Harvard literally, I think, last.

00:11:10.060 Just absolutely dreadful scores when it comes to free speech

00:11:13.600 and defending at Harvard University of all institutions.

00:11:17.620 You know, Alan, I went with my family, my husband and my kids,

00:11:20.440 to the U.S. Open finals last night, the men's finals.

00:11:22.960 It was absolutely thrilling.

00:11:24.960 It was.

00:11:26.160 It was wonderful.

00:11:27.940 And I'll get into it a little bit more.

00:11:30.140 Marcellus Wiley's here.

00:11:31.280 He was a professional football player.

00:11:33.120 I realize it's a different sport.

00:11:34.140 Even I know that.

00:11:34.800 But one of the things that jumped out at me was it opened.

00:11:39.580 You know, this is the event.

00:11:41.080 The men's finals is the event.

00:11:42.820 It opened without the national anthem.

00:11:46.300 Here we are.

00:11:47.260 Yeah.

00:11:47.840 Right.

00:11:48.460 You know, in New York, in the heart of America.

00:11:51.540 And they opened with a combination.

00:11:54.900 It was like a medley of phrases from America, the beautiful

00:11:58.400 and lift every voice and sing, which has become known as the Black National Anthem.

00:12:03.340 So the Black National Anthem got play as we're surrounded everywhere by reminders of

00:12:10.100 50 years of equal pay for equal performance or basically equal prize money for men and women.

00:12:16.660 OK, OK, fine.

00:12:18.520 That's one thing.

00:12:19.720 But everywhere we're getting reminded of that.

00:12:21.420 But nothing about America, because I guess we're not allowed to celebrate

00:12:24.020 us and what we stand for by playing the national anthem.

00:12:28.280 There wasn't the moment where we put your hand on your heart.

00:12:30.220 I thought that's what we were doing.

00:12:31.360 Everybody stood.

00:12:31.940 I put my hand on my heart, told my kids to do it.

00:12:33.940 And then they launch into the Black National Anthem.

00:12:36.380 I'm like, all right, I guess we have to go through this in order to get to the

00:12:39.080 actual national anthem that unites us all.

00:12:41.640 Black, white, left, right.

00:12:43.520 No, they never played it the night before 9-11 in New York.

00:12:48.580 That would have been unfathomable just 10 years ago.

00:12:51.340 It's too controversial.

00:12:54.340 The national anthem is too controversial.

00:12:56.660 I was thrilled to see the flag unfolded.

00:12:58.960 I thought they might have an issue with that as well and kneeling.

00:13:04.160 Look, every American has the right to protest individually, but organizations like the

00:13:10.000 Tennis Association ought to be playing the national anthem.

00:13:13.360 The national anthem is the national song, the song that's supposed to unite us, whether

00:13:18.740 it's around tennis or around politics or anything else.

00:13:22.480 We're a deeply, deeply divided country.

00:13:25.380 And the divisions are getting deeper and deeper.

00:13:29.640 And I fear for our country.

00:13:32.240 I fear for our country.

00:13:33.300 I fear that too few Americans today support the Bill of Rights.

00:13:37.900 It's the Bill of Rights for me, but not for thee.

00:13:40.600 Some focus on the Second Amendment, but not the first.

00:13:43.520 Some focus on the First Amendment if it's speech that you support, but not if you don't support

00:13:48.880 it.

00:13:49.060 We are losing our consensus around the great, great history and ideology of this country

00:13:58.120 that makes us the greatest country in the world and makes us the target of attacks like

00:14:02.660 9-11.

00:14:04.040 So we can never forget 9-11.

00:14:05.800 And I'm so glad you opened your show with a commemoration of that important day in our

00:14:11.220 history.

00:14:12.400 Oh, my gosh.

00:14:13.160 I mean, who could forget it?

00:14:14.200 And I do like I understand we're 22 years out.

00:14:17.340 I personally thought it was sad when MSNBC stopped running its Day of Remembrance.

00:14:22.460 They used to run the live coverage that had happened on the Today Show every 9-11.

00:14:27.400 And it would take generations like the ones I just mentioned, you know, these young kids

00:14:30.700 who weren't even born then or who are two years old back and show you how it unfolded.

00:14:34.660 And there's no substitute for that.

00:14:36.300 Then they got accused of like fear or death porn by the left.

00:14:41.840 Slate and others started writing articles about how they should stop doing that.

00:14:46.220 It was demonizing, you know, the bad guys.

00:14:49.260 It was just absolutely insane.

00:14:50.940 So now they don't do that anymore.

00:14:53.700 And we're at the point now where the U.S. president doesn't feel the need to be at any

00:14:58.820 of the locations, not Shanksville, Pennsylvania, not the Pentagon, not New York City and Ground

00:15:05.760 Zero.

00:15:06.220 They dispatched Kamala Harris.

00:15:07.740 But the sitting commander in chief isn't even here.

00:15:09.860 I mean, I don't know that I want to see him, Alan, but symbolically you use.

00:15:14.400 I mean, that would have been, again, unthinkable.

00:15:18.720 Well, I would like to see him there.

00:15:20.460 He's my president.

00:15:21.520 He stands for the United States in that respect.

00:15:24.360 He is like the national anthem.

00:15:26.540 And he should be president at events to unite the country.

00:15:31.380 I voted for him in the hope that he would bring the country together and unite us at a time

00:15:37.100 of great division.

00:15:38.760 And frankly, I have been disappointed.

00:15:41.680 And that's what he said he would do.

00:15:43.120 I mean, that is actually what he promised he would do at his inaugural address.

00:15:46.580 I know a lot of politicians use that word, you know, unity used loosely and they don't

00:15:51.520 ever plan on living up to it.

00:15:52.920 But, man, it was like the theme of his address.

00:15:55.880 And we've gone a very different way, which leads me to the topic of today, the first substantive

00:16:01.640 topic, which is that constitution, that pesky constitution we were discussing in the Bill

00:16:06.720 of Rights and how some now on the left want to use it, the 14th Amendment in particular,

00:16:12.900 to stop, I mean, some half of the country from getting the candidate on the ballot that

00:16:18.700 they seem to prefer.

00:16:19.540 I mean, Trump is overwhelmingly leading in his battle to become the Republican nominee.

00:16:24.480 And now the last ditch effort seems to be get him off of there by using the 14th Amendment

00:16:30.300 to say you can't run for president.

00:16:33.360 You can't even run.

00:16:34.920 You can't be president if you engaged in an insurrection or provided aid to someone who

00:16:42.020 did.

00:16:42.580 I know you don't believe in this.

00:16:43.840 I've listened.

00:16:44.200 I love the Dirt Show.

00:16:45.080 I listen to it all the time.

00:16:46.140 But explain for the listening audience that isn't up to speed how they are using the 14th

00:16:51.240 Amendment here to make this argument.

00:16:53.400 Well, it's an effort to disenfranchise not only Americans who want to vote for Donald

00:16:57.800 Trump.

00:16:58.220 I insist on the right to vote against him for the third time.

00:17:01.600 That's an important right, too.

00:17:03.500 I want Donald Trump defeated on the merits in a fair and open election.

00:17:08.900 I don't want him disqualified.

00:17:10.420 First of all, the 14th Amendment was designed to prevent people who fought in the Civil War

00:17:15.800 from assuming office, by the way, not only the presidency, but mayor, city council, any

00:17:22.240 position under state, federal or city law.

00:17:25.800 And it doesn't only apply to people running.

00:17:28.920 It applies for people sitting in office.

00:17:30.860 So it's a way of circumventing even the impeachment provision.

00:17:34.100 You could use it against President Biden and say that there was an insurrection by him

00:17:39.900 opening the borders in the South.

00:17:41.740 And Professor Lawrence Tribe, who has been pushing this so hard, he says it's self-enforcing.

00:17:47.700 You don't need a Supreme Court decision.

00:17:50.380 You don't need a district court decision.

00:17:52.300 You don't need an accusation.

00:17:53.820 You don't need a conviction.

00:17:55.300 All you need is Lawrence Tribe to say, I think it was an insurrection, and therefore he can't

00:18:00.540 run, if he can persuade secretaries of state, some of which are elected, some of which are

00:18:05.380 appointed, some of whom are Republicans, some of whom are Democrats, if he can persuade

00:18:10.360 enough of them to take him off the ballot, it's the end of democracy for the 2024 election.

00:18:16.700 It means that people don't get to vote for and against those candidates who the majority

00:18:22.720 of the people in primaries have decided to put on the ballot.

00:18:26.080 It's the most undemocratic, anti-American tactic for getting Trump.

00:18:32.280 You know, I wrote a book called Get Trump.

00:18:34.300 Every effort has been made to get Trump.

00:18:36.940 They're bringing criminal prosecutions, some of which are stronger than others.

00:18:40.500 The New Yorkers are the weakest.

00:18:41.960 The Florida, perhaps, is the strongest.

00:18:44.060 That's different because there, at least there's a due process, a judicial safeguard.

00:18:48.740 But this 14th Amendment thing, self-enforcing, it means anybody can take anybody off a ballot

00:18:56.680 if they think they engaged in an insurrection such as might have occurred after the George

00:19:02.360 Floyd killing in parts of the West, when there were attempts to take over federal buildings

00:19:07.700 and state buildings and damage to property.

00:19:12.180 Who knows what an insurrection rebellion is outside of the context of the Civil War?

00:19:18.780 We knew it back then.

00:19:20.440 But today it's become a metaphor for protests you don't approve of, not for protests you

00:19:26.060 approve of.

00:19:27.000 It's so dangerous.

00:19:27.920 Just in case you think, just lest our audience think this is just some dream of some liberal

00:19:32.820 law professors, it's not.

00:19:34.400 There's a push underway in several swing states right now to get the secretaries of state

00:19:38.940 to remove Trump from the ballot to make sure he cannot appear on the ballot.

00:19:43.260 In Arizona, the secretary of state, a Democrat, said he doesn't have the authority to bar Trump

00:19:48.040 from the ballot.

00:19:48.720 But the question about Trump's eligibility is not settled.

00:19:52.280 So leaving the door open in Michigan, the Democratic secretary of state recently said

00:19:56.180 there are valid legal arguments being made for keeping the former president off the ballot

00:20:00.880 and that it's something that they're discussing.

00:20:04.380 She is discussing right now with election officials in other states.

00:20:07.880 There are pushes underway in Georgia, in New Hampshire, in Colorado.

00:20:12.800 In Colorado, they filed a lawsuit.

00:20:14.660 That's another way of going about getting this to happen.

00:20:17.980 Challenging whether he has the right to stay on the ballot by this left wing group.

00:20:22.000 That case that was just filed in a state court was removed to federal court by Team Trump

00:20:26.940 saying this is a federal issue and ought to be decided in a federal court.

00:20:29.800 So we'll see how that plays out.

00:20:31.000 But there are active, active pushes underway in, of course, the critical swing states.

00:20:36.720 Those are the ones that really matter to keep him off the ballot.

00:20:40.220 This could cost him the election, no matter whether he defeats all of the criminal cases

00:20:45.600 against him, Alan.

00:20:46.960 Well, it's not a matter of keeping him off the ballot and denying him the right to be

00:20:52.120 president.

00:20:52.860 What's most important is denying us the right to determine who the next president is and

00:20:57.940 leaving it to a bunch of elitist law professors, secretaries of state and judges.

00:21:02.640 Those are not the people who the Constitution allocated the responsibility for electing the

00:21:08.240 president.

00:21:08.820 It's voters and the Electoral College.

00:21:11.140 If you want to change that, if you want to change our system into a system where judges

00:21:15.860 make that decision as secretaries of state, amend the Constitution.

00:21:19.880 But under the current Constitution, we get to decide who the next president is.

00:21:24.560 And it's not up to some interpretation of the 14th Amendment.

00:21:28.700 The 14th Amendment was so clearly designed to apply to people who fought in the Civil War

00:21:35.120 in the South.

00:21:36.460 And that's why it was self-enforcing, because everybody knew who fought for the South.

00:21:40.080 They were proud of it.

00:21:41.140 They were going around in their Confederate uniforms.

00:21:43.260 They were forming organizations like Daughters of the Confederacy, Sons of the Confederacy.

00:21:48.380 They were celebrating the Confederacy.

00:21:50.720 Nobody was denying that they fought in the Confederacy.

00:21:53.220 That's why it was self-enforcing.

00:21:55.240 But beyond that limited use, if you take it now to 2024, how do we determine what's an

00:22:03.280 insurrection?

00:22:04.240 It can't be decided by secretaries of state.

00:22:06.980 There has to be a process.

00:22:08.760 Right.

00:22:08.940 If they think this, I mean, seriously, if they think this, that it's self-executing and once

00:22:12.920 you engage in what an insurrection, which in their definition means challenging the election

00:22:19.320 results, refusing to accept that one has lost when one has lost, because again, Trump is

00:22:24.400 not the one who stormed the Capitol.

00:22:25.780 He did not do that.

00:22:27.180 What he did was try to challenge election results in every way, shape and form he could think

00:22:30.920 of.

00:22:31.440 Then then I guess President Kennedy engaged in an insurrection where he had the alternate

00:22:36.600 slates of electors for Hawaii.

00:22:38.700 Stacey Abrams, who they ran again in Georgia.

00:22:41.720 She never should have been allowed to run again for office.

00:22:45.620 And yet I'll tee it up for you, Alan.

00:22:47.440 Here is your old pal, Lawrence Tribe, professor at Harvard.

00:22:50.920 Alan and Tribe do not like each other.

00:22:52.860 And Judge Michael Ludig, who is a conservative just justice who or judge who a lot of lefties

00:22:59.380 are very now excited about because he's from the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals or that's

00:23:03.640 where he sat and he's taking the same position.

00:23:06.220 But don't forget, don't forget just because you're a more conservative justice or person doesn't

00:23:11.180 mean you don't hate Trump.

00:23:12.740 OK, doesn't mean you wouldn't do everything in your power to get him here.

00:23:16.220 They are together talking about this scheme.

00:23:19.620 The original meaning.

00:23:22.320 Of Section three disqualifies the former president from ever holding the presidency again, the

00:23:30.240 disqualification clause operates all by itself.

00:23:33.980 This clause says that no one who did what Donald J. Trump obviously did, and he doesn't really deny it.

00:23:43.400 He plays games with what we call it, but he doesn't deny.

00:23:47.240 Well, in the first instance, it is the officials who decide whether his name can be put in nomination.

00:23:56.720 Usually it is the secretary of state who must make that call.

00:23:59.960 But whichever way a secretary of state goes, that case will go to court.

00:24:05.460 And because the issue is so momentous, it will end up in the Supreme Court of the United States.

00:24:12.620 But I should I shouldn't impute.

00:24:14.680 I'll give you the floor, but I should I should not impute hatred to Michael Ludig.

00:24:18.640 I have no idea how he feels about Trump.

00:24:20.080 I just as people are sort of like, well, he's a conservative.

00:24:22.120 It's like, well, you do have to dig a little bit deeper when it comes to Trump to figure out

00:24:26.440 somebody's political position.

00:24:27.920 But the irony is that they claim the secretary of state decides who's on the ballot.

00:24:33.660 Of course, that's not the law.

00:24:35.300 The people decide who's on the ballot.

00:24:36.880 The secretary of state performs the administrative function.

00:24:40.320 That's exactly the argument that Trump was trying to make with Vice President Pence.

00:24:45.000 He was saying the vice president decides how the electoral vote should be counted.

00:24:50.360 And the same Ludigson tribe said that's an insurrection.

00:24:53.680 Getting the vice president to play a role as to the counting of the votes.

00:24:58.540 And yet they're doing the same thing.

00:25:00.380 They're saying that the secretary of state decides who's on the ballot.

00:25:03.840 No.

00:25:04.920 Primaries decide who's on the ballot.

00:25:07.300 Delegates decide who's on the ballot.

00:25:08.960 We have a process for deciding who's on the ballot.

00:25:11.920 The secretary of state just performs the ministerial task of putting his name in print and printing the

00:25:19.360 ballots.

00:25:19.780 But to say that the secretary of state decides who's on the ballot is the same as saying the

00:25:24.560 vice president decides how the electoral vote should be counted.

00:25:27.900 They're both interesting to lack of democracy.

00:25:32.520 That's interesting.

00:25:34.400 The what he said, what tribe said there at the end is not wrong.

00:25:38.060 It's going to go through the courts one way or the other.

00:25:40.220 It's starting to, as I mentioned, in Colorado.

00:25:42.020 And that means ultimately it's likely to wind up before the U.S. Supreme Court, which is

00:25:46.540 now six, three conservatives versus non.

00:25:49.720 Does that tell us anything?

00:25:51.840 Well, again, six, three conservative doesn't mean six, three pro Trump.

00:25:56.400 There are conservatives.

00:25:58.080 Some of the people who are the most active in trying to get Trump are conservatives, members

00:26:03.220 of the Federalist Society, who also believe in manipulating the Constitution to satisfy their

00:26:09.640 own ideology.

00:26:11.140 Their ideology may be different.

00:26:12.860 Tribes may be different from Ludwig's, but they both are prepared to manipulate the Constitution

00:26:17.100 to achieve their desired result of getting Trump off the ballot.

00:26:21.820 Now, remember, the Supreme Court has generally introduced the concept called the political question,

00:26:26.480 where they don't get involved in issues like this.

00:26:29.600 Now, in this case, they're going to have to get involved.

00:26:32.600 But, you know, you talked about some of the people like Stacey Abrams who would be disqualified.

00:26:36.540 Under Tribe's rationale, Tribe and I would be disqualified.

00:26:40.260 We together were on the side of challenging the 2000 election.

00:26:45.840 He was Al Gore's lawyer.

00:26:48.100 I was the lawyer for the citizens of Palm Beach County who had been victimized by the butterfly

00:26:54.420 ballot.

00:26:54.880 You remember what happened there?

00:26:55.800 Thousands of Jews accidentally voted for the most anti-Semitic president ever to run,

00:27:03.360 Pat Buchanan, because they were trying to vote for Joe Lieberman.

00:27:09.040 But the hole for his name, you don't vote for vice president.

00:27:12.420 But under the butterfly ballot, the hole next to his name was the hole that you punched for

00:27:18.020 Pat Buchanan.

00:27:18.820 And so there were hundreds and hundreds of people who voted by mistake, didn't cast their

00:27:24.720 vote for Al Gore.

00:27:27.380 And I was bringing that case.

00:27:29.180 I was in federal court standing right next to Lawrence Tribe.

00:27:32.520 We were trying to over undo an election.

00:27:35.840 Are we disqualified?

00:27:37.320 I'm not running.

00:27:38.000 And neither is Tribe.

00:27:39.160 But do we come within the prohibition of the 14th Amendment?

00:27:42.660 Of course not.

00:27:43.640 We were pursuing legal remedies, as was Trump and his lawyers, many of whom are now under

00:27:50.240 indictment for pursuing legal remedies, going too far perhaps.

00:27:54.500 But that's a question that ultimately will be decided by the courts in individual cases.

00:27:59.660 But the idea of disqualifying a presidential candidate, the leading presidential candidate,

00:28:05.160 you know, on my show, The Dirt Show, I award bananas.

00:28:08.120 And when this happened, it got up to six bananas on a scale of 10.

00:28:13.280 If, in fact, President Trump is disqualified, we become very close to a banana republic.

00:28:19.640 Now, we're not putting people on planes and blowing them up like Putin.

00:28:22.920 We're not doing what happened in Ecuador and killing a man who's running for president.

00:28:27.660 But when you disqualify a person from running for president who's the leading candidate,

00:28:33.240 you're up to eight bananas on a scale of 10.

00:28:35.580 And no American wants to be in that situation.

00:28:40.140 Let's let Trump run it.

00:28:42.260 Let me ask you about the Supreme Court where, yeah, I think this is obviously going to have

00:28:46.120 to land there as the legal challenges make their way through.

00:28:49.160 Not, you know, keeping the leading GOP candidate off the ballots is going to be a problem legally

00:28:53.740 and otherwise.

00:28:54.180 The one thing that I would say the other side has is, while I agree with you, it's very clearly

00:29:00.640 a civil war era prohibition.

00:29:05.460 It doesn't explicitly say it's limited to that.

00:29:09.100 It doesn't explicitly say that.

00:29:11.020 So they've got some wiggle room there.

00:29:13.620 How weak does that make your side of the argument?

00:29:16.880 That wiggle room is not enough when you're trying to disqualify the leading candidate.

00:29:21.020 It has to be absolutely crystal clear.

00:29:24.500 Now, of course, Tribe says it's crystal clear.

00:29:27.500 Of course it's not.

00:29:28.900 The same 14th Amendment does talk about enslaved people, talking about paying for states that

00:29:36.120 left the union.

00:29:36.780 It was so clearly designed.

00:29:39.420 The framers clearly did not intend it to be a way of undoing impeachment.

00:29:46.200 Impeachment is so hard to achieve.

00:29:47.880 You need two-thirds in the Senate.

00:29:49.420 The 25th Amendment is even harder to achieve.

00:29:52.180 And according to the tribe looted lunacy, this provision now can substitute for impeachment.

00:29:58.400 If you can show, if you can claim that somebody who's now sitting in office engaged in those

00:30:06.220 activities defined in the 14th Amendment, then you can use the 14th Amendment to get them

00:30:11.960 out of office without going through the rigors of the impeachment or the 25th Amendment.

00:30:17.400 That cannot be what the framers intended.

00:30:19.980 If you want to disqualify somebody from running, you're going to have to have due process,

00:30:24.360 procedures, a clear method, a methodology.

00:30:27.680 Who decides?

00:30:29.120 Who evaluates?

00:30:30.140 What's the criteria?

00:30:31.520 Proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

00:30:33.020 Truth by a preponderance.

00:30:34.560 None of it's there.

00:30:35.980 All of that or things like it are in the impeachment provisions and in the 25th Amendment.

00:30:41.160 So it's bizarre to think that this was designed to be a substitute for impeachment or this 25th

00:30:47.380 Amendment.

00:30:47.700 Like a secret.

00:30:48.320 Yeah, like a secret backdoor.

00:30:49.960 You can get you can get this candidate barred from ever running from office again if you convict

00:30:54.260 him in an impeachment proceeding or secret option number two, if you can convince a judge

00:31:00.420 or a secretary of state that he engaged in insurrection undefined by undefined by the 14th

00:31:06.400 Amendment.

00:31:06.660 And so it's what the secretary of state who's going to decide that it looks like an insurrection

00:31:10.900 to me.

00:31:11.480 Guilty.

00:31:11.980 He's off.

00:31:12.580 All right.

00:31:12.780 I've got to get this other story in while I have you.

00:31:15.480 And that is this New Mexico governor who is very upset because there's been a rash of

00:31:22.560 shootings in New Mexico.

00:31:23.920 Um, I get it.

00:31:26.260 It upsets all of us and including one involving an 11 year old boy who, uh, appears to have

00:31:32.820 been killed during the midst of some sort of, I don't know if it was gang violence, but

00:31:36.560 it was a road rage incident where I'll just, cause none of the news reports is talking about

00:31:41.120 what happened.

00:31:41.560 It was driving me nuts as a mother, uh, 11 year old boy.

00:31:44.860 Uh, he was, his family was leaving a baseball stadium after a, after a game road rage incident.

00:31:52.000 I was certainly not suggesting he was in a gang.

00:31:53.880 I'm like wondering who would have, who unleashed this hell on him.

00:31:56.760 Were they in a gang or whether, what, what would they do?

00:31:58.840 Because they made, um, the car, the car in which the child was riding made a U-turn in

00:32:04.800 front of the suspect's vehicle.

00:32:07.240 And then that suspect got out and fired 17 shots at the family's car.

00:32:13.960 I mean, that's just absolute lunacy.

00:32:16.680 The boy was killed and there hasn't yet been an arrest.

00:32:20.020 Absolutely awful.

00:32:20.920 It's not the only incident in New Mexico, but this, this democratic governor, as horrified

00:32:27.740 as she was, I would submit had absolutely no right to do what she did, which was essentially

00:32:33.500 to suspend the U S constitution, including the second amendment, because she says it's an

00:32:38.700 emergency and she really, really doesn't want the guns in New Mexico.

00:32:42.820 Concealed carry or open carry.

00:32:44.700 It's any gun, unless you're a law enforcement officer or security officer.

00:32:48.340 So people who are legitimate gun owners and have licenses to carry guns in New Mexico are

00:32:54.220 now under her emergency order, no longer allowed to carry them, um, inside their cars, inside

00:32:59.880 their, you know, pants inside their homes, potentially.

00:33:03.580 Um, here's how she put it when she was being pressed by a reporter on whether this was okay

00:33:08.400 to do, you took an oath to the constitution.

00:33:11.860 Isn't it unconstitutional to say you cannot exercise your, your carry license with one

00:33:18.580 exception?

00:33:19.280 And that is if there's an emergency and I've declared an emergency for a temporary amount

00:33:25.420 of time, I can invoke additional powers.

00:33:29.040 So just two things there, Alan, whether she has the right to do this because, you know,

00:33:45.980 no constitutional right is absolute.

00:33:47.660 And the second admission that she doesn't see her oath of office as absolute.

00:33:54.980 Well, obviously she is doing something that many people will approve of.

00:34:00.100 If I were at the constitutional convention or the bill of rights convention, I would not

00:34:04.700 have voted for the second amendment.

00:34:06.360 I'm not in favor of there being a constitutional right to bear arms.

00:34:10.280 We're one of the very few countries in the world that have that, but it's in the constitution

00:34:15.040 and you can't suspend the first amendment or the second amendment because of emergencies.

00:34:20.740 We tried to do that in the past during the second world war.

00:34:24.420 They suspended the right of Japanese Americans to live on the West coast and put them in detention

00:34:29.060 centers.

00:34:29.860 That has come to be understood as one of the worst Supreme court decisions ever.

00:34:36.040 The constitution is designed for emergency times for difficult times.

00:34:39.880 And as much as I don't myself like the right to bear arms, I completely support the constitution

00:34:47.180 as written and would very firmly argue that she has no right to suspend it.

00:34:53.400 She has the right to seek a constitutional amendment.

00:34:56.560 You know, you can interpret the second amendment and after all, it does say it starts with a statement

00:35:03.660 about the need for militias, well-regulated militias.

00:35:07.840 You can make the argument that guns can be well-regulated under the second amendment.

00:35:13.040 That argument is made in the Supreme court, but you cannot simply suspend completely the

00:35:18.900 right any more than you could suspend the right of freedom of speech.

00:35:21.680 She's right that freedom of speech is not absolute, but no governor can say there's an emergency.

00:35:26.940 We now suspend all of free speech rights.

00:35:30.060 We close newspapers.

00:35:31.340 We close the media.

00:35:32.820 That's what they do in repressive regimes.

00:35:36.300 So if you suspend the second amendment today, you then have the power to suspend the first

00:35:42.480 amendment, the fourth amendment, and the fifth amendment.

00:35:45.040 And this was all part of the same thing.

00:35:46.940 This was part of the effort to try to use the constitution in a manipulative way to get

00:35:52.600 your policy results you want, whether it's to get guns off the street, which is desirable,

00:35:57.720 whether it's to stop Donald Trump from running, which many people would find desirable,

00:36:01.540 whether it's obtaining 110,000 American citizens of Japanese origin in detention centers.

00:36:08.720 None of them are permissible under the constitution.

00:36:12.280 Constitution was designed for dangerous times.

00:36:15.440 That's why it's lasted longer than any constitution in the history of the world.

00:36:19.720 And it's under attack largely from the left today.

00:36:23.060 I grew up today during, I grew up during McCarthyism when it was under attack by the right.

00:36:27.780 That's why I'm writing a new book actually called The New McCarthyism, why the woke version is

00:36:33.220 even more dangerous than the original version, because it represents the future.

00:36:37.800 The people who are calling for these suspenses of the constitution are the young people who

00:36:42.380 will become our leaders in the next 10, 20, 30 years.

00:36:45.780 That's why it's so dangerous.

00:36:47.500 We have to fight it, whether it's the second amendment or the first amendment.

00:36:50.620 I got to ask you one parting question.

00:36:52.620 Please forgive this question.

00:36:53.640 This is be considered rude, but I've heard you talk about your age openly.

00:36:56.740 Are you almost 85 now?

00:37:00.020 I am over 85.

00:37:01.100 I had my birthday last week and the same weekend that my daughter got married.

00:37:06.120 And so I'm, you know, I'm an 85 year old who's still fighting back.

00:37:12.920 And happy birthday.

00:37:15.700 The reason I raise it is I always reference you, Alan, when people talk about how it's

00:37:22.220 ageist to raise questions about President Biden's mental state.

00:37:24.840 And I always say it's not about his age.

00:37:27.500 You know, Trump's only three years younger.

00:37:28.940 People don't have these concerns about Trump.

00:37:30.740 Not most people don't.

00:37:32.280 But look at you, 85 years old, sharp as a tack.

00:37:36.340 Every once in a while, I hear you complain if you cough.

00:37:38.880 You know, it's tough getting old.

00:37:39.840 That's the extent of it, of what I hear from you.

00:37:42.400 Is there a secret to staying as sharp as Alan Dershowitz into our mid 80s?

00:37:47.780 Like, what can the rest of us do?

00:37:49.920 It's great.

00:37:50.640 It's having a terrific enemies list.

00:37:53.100 Having, being attacked.

00:37:54.600 I'm great.

00:37:55.120 I'm going to live forever.

00:37:56.540 Abigail, you'll never die.

00:37:58.820 People who you really thrive on, on responding to.

00:38:03.140 And, you know, I'm, I'm very active and want to continue to be active in defending the

00:38:09.220 Constitution.

00:38:10.040 It needs defense more than ever.

00:38:12.060 Look, I regret having retired from Harvard.

00:38:14.300 Harvard did not have the number, the least, the lowest ranking of any, of any university

00:38:21.200 in the country when I was there.

00:38:22.780 Because I was fighting back every day against the administration.

00:38:26.280 But a few of us who have been older have retired and left.

00:38:29.540 And now it's up to a group of people called the Council on Academic Freedom.

00:38:33.840 Imagine Harvard needs to have a Council on Academic Freedom, which contains only a minority

00:38:38.760 of its faculty, to try to preserve academic freedom.

00:38:41.780 Harvard is the future and our, the people who are students there are our future leaders

00:38:47.300 and they believe in free speech for me.

00:38:49.260 No, it's ridiculous.

00:38:50.280 But wait, I need more practical tips.

00:38:52.320 So do, get an enemies list.

00:38:54.300 Do not retire early.

00:38:56.140 Was there like two hours of aerobic activity a day?

00:38:59.380 Is there some magic diet?

00:39:00.860 Is there anything else you can give us for our list?

00:39:03.140 I try to walk five miles a day if I can, but not, I made the mistake of trying to walk.

00:39:09.860 I did walk six miles the other day in 90 degree heat.

00:39:13.280 That was not a good thing to do.

00:39:15.620 So I'm off walking in the great heat, but I love to exercise.

00:39:20.320 And look, having a wonderful wife and a wonderful family and supportive friends and relatives

00:39:27.640 is very important to being able to be well and keeping your wits about you when you're 85 years old.

00:39:37.300 So I'm hoping for a few more good years and maybe someday the world will allow me to retire.

00:39:43.160 But right now, there are too many battles to be fought, too many, too many evils to be trying to be directed against.

00:39:50.980 And I'm in the middle of the fight and I thrive on it.

00:39:53.960 Well, thank goodness for it.

00:39:55.640 You know, and now the way you phrase it, thank goodness we have some enemies and some fights to be fought.

00:39:59.340 Alan, thank you so much.

00:40:00.380 All the best to you, Professor.

00:40:01.640 Thank you.

00:40:03.780 All right, team, note to yourselves.

00:40:06.160 Let's send Alan a birthday gift.

00:40:07.520 We forgot all about his B-Day.

00:40:08.880 That's a big one, 85.

00:40:10.480 And look, it's not ageist, right?

00:40:12.040 Well, you wouldn't you vote for Alan Dershowitz?

00:40:14.300 I mean, you probably like his politics, but even if you didn't like his politics,

00:40:18.380 you wouldn't look at him and say he's too old.

00:40:19.900 He's like on fire.

00:40:20.920 He's sharper than most of us.

00:40:22.260 It's not about age.

00:40:23.320 It's about what our eyes and our ears show us when we look at somebody like Biden or DiFi, etc.

00:40:27.540 OK, up next, Marcellus Wiley's here.

00:40:30.220 Looking forward to talking to him.

00:40:31.200 He was on back in March.

00:40:32.220 We had a great convo, but it was too short.

00:40:33.840 Today we resume.

00:40:38.960 It was a huge weekend in the sports world.

00:40:41.580 As I mentioned a minute ago, my family and I attended the U.S. Open, the men's finals.

00:40:46.700 It was absolutely thrilling.

00:40:48.940 Plus, football's back.

00:40:50.480 And for the 2024 Republican presidential candidates, that means there was only one place to be.

00:40:56.380 The Iowa, Iowa State College football game.

00:41:00.320 Hello.

00:41:00.660 They're not stupid.

00:41:02.040 They understand where to go in advance of the first in the nation caucus.

00:41:06.080 We're going to get to all of that and much more today with Marcellus Wiley, former NFL All-Pro, founder of Project Transition Foundation and host of Brinks TV and YouTube's Never Shut Up.

00:41:19.820 And Marcellus's wife is going to be part of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, which is also exciting because I enjoy that phone.

00:41:27.300 And Marcellus, that show, Marcellus, great to see you.

00:41:29.560 How are you?

00:41:30.740 I'm doing great, Megan.

00:41:32.160 How's it going?

00:41:32.880 I think you need to leave with the end now because the Housewives is going to take care of everything I've ever done.

00:41:39.140 This is going to bring back Beverly Hills.

00:41:40.920 I migrated over to Miami, which I happen to think is the greatest show ever made in the history of mankind.

00:41:46.300 But I'm going to go back to Beverly Hills now.

00:41:48.440 I know their season hasn't yet released.

00:41:49.800 It's coming out soon.

00:41:51.020 It's featuring your own wife.

00:41:52.740 So are you in it?

00:41:53.760 Did you get sucked into this?

00:41:56.040 Yeah, I got sucked into it, man.

00:41:57.940 We're a tandem.

00:41:58.900 We're a tag team.

00:41:59.840 So it just happened earlier this year, unofficially.

00:42:04.440 But basically, they gave us a call and wanted to gauge our interest.

00:42:09.000 And my wife, knowing who she is and how multidimensional she is, and she's a mother, she's also a CRNA, she has tremendous personality, and is a huge athlete in terms of her workout regimen, wakes up at 4.30 every day, still has a six-pack, three kids later.

00:42:28.060 So I was like, baby, I think the world needs to see how great you are because I see it every day.

00:42:32.860 Okay, here's why I'm worried.

00:42:34.140 I'm going to show you in one soundbite why I'm scared for her.

00:42:36.360 Watch.

00:42:36.600 Let me tell you something, don't ever touch my husband, ever.

00:42:41.680 Just saying, don't you, don't ever, you don't want out for everybody to know, you better want you to talk about me or everybody will know.

00:42:50.680 You never, everybody will know.

00:42:51.920 You're near my husband, everybody will know.

00:42:54.260 You understand that?

00:42:55.500 You never go after my, you know what you don't want.

00:43:01.380 Do not put your finger in my face.

00:43:03.620 You're going to get my finger in your face, too.

00:43:05.620 No, I can't.

00:43:06.060 Okay, okay, okay.

00:43:06.500 Really?

00:43:07.280 Listen, listen, listen.

00:43:08.400 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:43:10.140 Stop it.

00:43:10.700 Enough.

00:43:11.400 You're a pig.

00:43:12.760 Okay, enough.

00:43:13.900 No one is touching anyone in this house.

00:43:16.220 No one is touching anyone.

00:43:17.720 There will be no touching.

00:43:19.900 Listen, we're from Beverly Hills.

00:43:21.760 We live our life.

00:43:22.700 We do our thing.

00:43:23.620 We don't, you know, we just do it.

00:43:25.420 No, I'm not.

00:43:25.440 I'm going to the trail.

00:43:25.960 Don't forget, listen.

00:43:27.280 We don't.

00:43:30.920 For Anne-Marie, she's going to the Lions' den.

00:43:34.860 Yeah, well, you know, I played in the NFL for a decade,

00:43:38.600 and every day in that locker room was making that clip look tame.

00:43:43.160 So I'm certainly used to it.

00:43:46.040 She has to grow that muscle.

00:43:48.760 I will say that.

00:43:50.100 Like, that's a whole different muscle to be in those situations,

00:43:53.140 know how to navigate between the drama that is present

00:43:57.780 and then you being a calming force but not a boring person, right?

00:44:01.980 So we have a lot of conversations privately about how she's going to navigate that,

00:44:06.820 but you've got to be authentic.

00:44:07.840 You've got to be yourself, man.

00:44:09.240 I've been through so much hell in my life, man.

00:44:11.260 Nothing these ladies from Beverly Hills are going to ever throw me.

00:44:14.160 That's going to throw me off my game.

00:44:15.800 Well, that is the greatest sin on the Housewives series is to be the boring one.

00:44:19.200 I have no doubt she will not be because, I mean, if nothing else,

00:44:22.600 it seems like I don't know anything about her politics,

00:44:24.600 but if she sounds like you do at all on any issues,

00:44:28.000 because you, like, look at your shirt for the listening audience.

00:44:30.500 He has a shirt on that reads, facts are greater than feelings,

00:44:32.780 like the greater than sign, facts over feelings.

00:44:35.440 That's, even that is considered, like, subversive in today's day and age.

00:44:40.040 So if she says anything that sounds like you, Marcellus,

00:44:43.680 she's going to be the biggest shit stirrer among them.

00:44:45.660 Oh, absolutely.

00:44:47.660 And there's already some reports of some of the things I've said.

00:44:51.060 She agrees with some of them.

00:44:53.520 We're not the same person, so obviously we will diverge on some issues.

00:44:57.600 But, yeah, we're together for a reason.

00:45:00.220 So she has a lot of ammunition, a lot of experience,

00:45:03.660 and is not scared to speak her mind.

00:45:05.820 So in a world that is trying to pervert everything you say

00:45:09.040 and always wants you to just pick a side

00:45:11.700 and doesn't want to hear the nuance,

00:45:13.860 she's going to represent the Wileys pretty well.

00:45:16.200 I look forward to seeing how they edit it and then see how it comes out.

00:45:19.580 Yes, exactly.

00:45:20.260 That's right.

00:45:20.600 I have one other question on this.

00:45:22.080 Before you go on a show like this,

00:45:23.500 do you have, like, a sit-down about the rules?

00:45:25.820 Like, this is what you're allowed to disclose

00:45:27.460 about our marriage and what you're not.

00:45:31.540 You know, you sound like her.

00:45:33.040 Like, she came to me and it was like this summit meeting.

00:45:35.660 She was like, okay, baby, we've got to be on the same page.

00:45:38.560 We've got to be in the same alignment.

00:45:40.540 Let's talk through this.

00:45:41.900 I was like, well, I only got one rule.

00:45:43.420 Be yourself.

00:45:44.160 And then everything else comes from that.

00:45:45.680 But I will say that she has been smart and strategic

00:45:49.280 in terms of what does she want out there.

00:45:52.040 And obviously, no one is going to show their entire life.

00:45:55.620 Like, it's not even set up for that.

00:45:58.200 But we are being real.

00:45:59.800 We are being who we are.

00:46:01.440 It's just you don't want everything out for the full public's display

00:46:05.180 because we do have little kids here.

00:46:07.660 We still have a family, obviously, that we're in love with.

00:46:10.600 So we don't want everyone to go through the ringer like we have to.

00:46:14.220 Yes.

00:46:14.580 I will tell you that one of the things that's great about Miami,

00:46:17.340 I mean, this is like now two seasons ago, so I won't give you too much of a spoiler.

00:46:21.580 But there's this dirtbag husband.

00:46:24.360 He's married to one of the gals.

00:46:25.580 And he forgets that he has his mic on.

00:46:29.620 He's mic'd up for the show.

00:46:31.060 And he forgets.

00:46:32.360 And on the open mic, but he's off cam.

00:46:35.000 But you can hear him.

00:46:35.940 And the royal house, Bravo's not stupid.

00:46:38.700 Yeah.

00:46:38.980 They played it.

00:46:39.780 He's talking about how he's going to leave the wife.

00:46:42.320 And he's got somebody on the side.

00:46:44.640 And he's so into this other woman.

00:46:47.280 It's like, oh, my God.

00:46:49.260 After you've just watched his wife for a season, clearly desperate to get her husband's attention,

00:46:54.800 clearly sensing something's wrong.

00:46:56.700 He denies, denies, denies.

00:46:58.140 And then we hear this is why it's I'm sorry.

00:47:00.360 I got to tell you, Marie.

00:47:01.520 This is right now.

00:47:03.200 Miami's number one.

00:47:04.160 She shouldn't do any of this stuff to make it number one.

00:47:06.440 Beverly Hills.

00:47:08.040 Yeah, but it's like the necessary evil.

00:47:10.860 It's right.

00:47:11.400 It's like, oh, God, if you're just going to be a normal, great human ambassador for society,

00:47:16.860 boring.

00:47:17.780 If you're going to stir it up.

00:47:19.320 OK, now we got something going.

00:47:21.080 Pom poms for you.

00:47:22.180 I get it.

00:47:22.860 All right.

00:47:24.320 So I'm going to squeeze in a break, but I'm going to come back.

00:47:26.320 We have to talk about the U.S. Open.

00:47:27.920 Novak Djokovic coming back after being banned because he refused to get the vaccine with a

00:47:32.620 I mean, to mix the sports, spike the ball in the end zone moment.

00:47:37.720 We'll talk about some of the woke displays that I saw there and then what's happening

00:47:40.700 in football, too.

00:47:42.100 Also, there's an update in the blindside case with Michael or suing the twoies claiming

00:47:48.020 that they lied to him about his adoption status.

00:47:50.220 We'll bring that to you.

00:47:51.160 And Marcellus may have some thoughts on that, too, as a football player himself.

00:47:54.540 Stay with us, folks.

00:47:55.840 And don't forget, you can find the Megan Kelly show live on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 111

00:48:01.540 every weekday at noon east.

00:48:03.380 The full video show and clips by subscribing to our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Megan

00:48:09.480 Kelly.

00:48:10.120 If you prefer to get your news via an audio podcast, follow and download on Apple, Spotify,

00:48:15.820 Pandora, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcast.

00:48:17.520 And if you're listening to us via audio and you have forgotten to hit that follow button,

00:48:21.560 could you just do it?

00:48:22.320 Do it now.

00:48:22.900 That would be awesome.

00:48:23.940 We would love to have that kind of, you know, go steady relationship with you.

00:48:26.900 Uh, and there you'll find our full archives with more than 600 shows now.

00:48:35.100 So let's talk a little sports, uh, for on a rare occasion, I actually do delve into them.

00:48:40.060 And this weekend was one of those occasions where we went, uh, as a family to the U S

00:48:44.120 open men's finals.

00:48:45.460 And I mean, every like the tennis is definitely woke.

00:48:48.860 It is woke.

00:48:49.880 Um, it's like, it was all about Billie Jean King and equal pay and like all the messaging

00:48:55.040 and Moderna signs everywhere, which not, you don't have to be woke to be pro Moderna, but

00:48:59.100 it was a little in your face with the Moderna messaging.

00:49:01.640 It's like, you know what?

00:49:02.960 A lot of people, including yours truly have had bad experiences with the vaccines and I

00:49:06.960 don't need to look at it all over the place.

00:49:08.460 And I'm just trying to try to watch a tennis match, but okay.

00:49:11.440 Then we go out, they don't sing the national anthem, which I talked about with Dershowitz.

00:49:14.840 It's apparently the day before nine 11, they did, they thought maybe we'll skip the national

00:49:19.800 anthem.

00:49:20.600 Instead, we got lift every voice and sings.

00:49:23.020 We got sort of the so-called black national anthem, but not the actual national anthem.

00:49:27.120 All right.

00:49:28.080 And then we had this amazing tennis match between Novak Djokovic of Serbia and Daniel Medvedev

00:49:36.480 of Russia.

00:49:37.560 And he was the third, he was one of three Russians who made it into the finals.

00:49:42.000 If you count the, uh, all the singles and the doubles finals, men and women, and what

00:49:47.200 they've done, Marsalis, you've probably seen this for the past, since the Ukrainian conflict

00:49:50.320 is they've blanked out the little Russian flag, you know, so you see the Serbian flag next

00:49:57.300 to Novak and then you don't see anything.

00:49:59.540 You just see a gray triangle next to the Russian players.

00:50:05.360 I'm sorry.

00:50:06.380 It's ridiculous.

00:50:08.220 Medvedev did not cause the invasion of Ukraine.

00:50:11.340 I'm sure he's got a lot of family and friends there who he loves and remembers.

00:50:15.560 That's where you got to start in tennis.

00:50:17.120 Why are we trying to pretend the Russian people themselves, including this tennis player are

00:50:22.600 to blame and that the blanking out of this flag means anything at all?

00:50:29.480 Yeah.

00:50:30.140 It's hilarious that you bring this up because I'm watching the U S open all the way through.

00:50:35.720 So we're, we're not big tennis fans, but certainly get riled up, um, for the big majors.

00:50:41.180 And my wife looked and she said, what country is he representing?

00:50:46.440 And she saw the little gray square at the bottom.

00:50:49.100 And I said, I think Transylvania, the way that they're trying to depict it, like they literally

00:50:53.700 like, it's just blank the mouth.

00:50:55.180 Like he's Dracula or something.

00:50:56.220 I don't know what this is, but you know, if you really want to go down that lane, down

00:51:01.520 that whole, uh, the whole representation conversation and what we call woke right now is really an

00:51:10.180 attempt to keep people controlled, keep the status quo, let the haves and have nots continue to widen

00:51:18.440 in the divide, which allows those in power to even have more power.

00:51:23.360 And for anyone who gets into these conversations and doesn't think what that mindset perspective,

00:51:30.900 uh, usually you'll get sabotaged and usually you'll get suckered into it.

00:51:34.780 Um, we're trying to really leave complex thought out of all these conversations and

00:51:39.940 representations just so it could be simplified or you left it.

00:51:43.720 Right.

00:51:44.120 Right.

00:51:44.420 Democrat, Republican.

00:51:45.560 And because they simplify it, it forces you to make a blanket decision that really doesn't

00:51:52.320 encompass all things that you need to respect.

00:51:55.020 Like, uh, this guy did not invade any country.

00:51:59.940 So this is a sad state of affairs for those who speak the truth.

00:52:03.960 Those who look for the truth, um, look like the outliers look like the ones who are

00:52:09.940 in the wrong when in the actual pursuit of the right is what we're all in seek of.

00:52:16.240 So I just laugh at these conversations.

00:52:18.360 It's, it's really, it's really just, it's disheartening when I look at my kids.

00:52:22.960 Cause I'm like, I hope they have the same compass that I was given to navigate through this BS.

00:52:30.260 And if not, they'll get lost in the sauce.

00:52:33.440 Like so many people are.

00:52:34.620 Well, they're going to have it.

00:52:35.460 They're going to have it.

00:52:36.080 Cause I'm sure you talk to them about it.

00:52:37.560 I mean, that's our kids were there.

00:52:39.220 Our kids were definitely rooting for Djokovic and I was rooting for Djokovic to some extent

00:52:43.840 too, but I was kind of in a position where I was like, I can't lose.

00:52:46.220 Cause I would be happy to see either one of these guys win.

00:52:48.340 And one of the reasons why I liked Medvedev is because nobody was cheering for him, not

00:52:55.520 nobody, but the crowd is clearly with Novak and I felt bad for him.

00:52:59.640 Like, yes, he's been a little spicy, but so is Novak.

00:53:02.900 I mean, they both can sort of in the John McEnroe-esque way of kind of getting in somebody's

00:53:07.740 face if they don't like what the crowd's doing or what the ump is doing, they'll, they're,

00:53:11.340 they're not shy, which I also like, but there's really, I think one main reason to dislike

00:53:16.620 Medvedev and that is he's from Russia and there's like, again, there's really no reason

00:53:22.620 to hold that against the guy.

00:53:23.900 So I was sure to clap for him whenever he got a good point.

00:53:26.900 I kind of felt bad for him that he didn't win, but I was thrilled to see the goat.

00:53:30.180 I think it's clear.

00:53:30.740 No, Novak is the goat.

00:53:32.140 And one of the reasons that many of us were rooting for him is because he too got, got

00:53:37.660 backlash and bounced out of the U S open and the Australian open last year because he refused

00:53:44.000 to get the Vax, they were calling him Aaron Rogers of, uh, your world NFL world was there.

00:53:50.660 I would say what team he's for, but I don't remember.

00:53:52.740 He just started with he's with the Jets.

00:53:55.700 Okay.

00:53:56.140 Anyway, he was with another team before, but anyway, he went, he posted Novak's Djokovic,

00:54:01.080 which is kind of fun.

00:54:02.560 Um, anyway, in an incredibly ironic moment that Clay Travis noticed, he was Novak.

00:54:08.780 Of course, his winning shot was the, the shot of the day sponsored by Moderna.

00:54:15.140 Look at this.

00:54:18.180 Well, we'll take you to the dirtiest shot of the day.

00:54:22.280 And it was saving the match point of the match point to get to number 24.

00:54:27.700 There were a lot of shots that were highly impactful, but here's the final one.

00:54:31.780 Oh, I mean, but you know, he was totally vilified, totally vilified.

00:54:40.420 It wasn't just your band from these tournaments, you know, for absolutely no purpose whatsoever,

00:54:45.120 but he was written up as some sort of a demon by many in the press.

00:54:48.740 We thought how gross this is that this elite athlete who didn't know what consequences

00:54:53.340 there might be to the vaccine refused to get it.

00:54:56.540 Yeah.

00:54:57.060 And that's, what's amazing about it.

00:54:58.320 Um, first of all, we just can't fly over the double down by Moderna, Moderna shot of the

00:55:04.220 day to like, it's just hilarious right there for Novak.

00:55:07.520 And then, you know, what's so crazy about when people want to talk about representation

00:55:13.220 and the openness and tennis, especially how did they fall victim to this other than the

00:55:19.700 capitalism at play, just take any check that comes.

00:55:22.600 Um, it's a global sport.

00:55:24.740 Uh, and I was actually already in a sad state because Carlos Aparaz wasn't in the finals.

00:55:30.960 And that's my guy.

00:55:32.340 Uh, we were privy of watching him against Nadal a few years ago and Indian Wells.

00:55:37.900 It was like, he's next.

00:55:39.100 And now he's now, but he obviously didn't make it to the finals yet.

00:55:42.500 It's a robot in disguise.

00:55:45.160 I mean, this guy is locked in when he is playing.

00:55:48.020 I love him to death, but, um, you see this with the Moderna shot of the day and how we

00:55:53.380 treated Novak when we ask our athletes, we ask people to make a decision, but vilify them

00:56:01.160 for the decisions that they make.

00:56:02.960 So it's really not even an option.

00:56:04.840 It's not open.

00:56:06.080 It's actually closed.

00:56:07.420 And that's what I don't like when everyone around me tells me to respect everyone.

00:56:12.340 And I'll say, I already do for you to even ask me that maybe you're telling on yourself,

00:56:17.380 maybe this is a projection.

00:56:18.660 And then when you choose something that they don't support, then they come after you.

00:56:25.820 So, you know, me being who I am and some of my stances over the years have been attacked,

00:56:31.260 but people don't understand.

00:56:32.920 I grew up in a gang territory, gang neighborhood where there were Crips and Bloods.

00:56:39.120 And I had to quickly realize that in order to make it out, I couldn't be either.

00:56:43.820 So I'm not going to be forced to ever choose a side.

00:56:47.500 So I know how to get around all of the landmines that these people and in their ignorance actually

00:56:53.700 put in front of me.

00:56:54.720 So when I look at it on a global scale now and how it's been so incentivized, it's laughable.

00:57:01.480 It's almost childlike to me, taking me to my childhood.

00:57:04.740 Are you going to wear this color?

00:57:06.300 Are you going to wear this color?

00:57:07.380 Are you going to think this way or that way?

00:57:08.960 And if not, you don't support what I support.

00:57:11.540 I try to come and kill you.

00:57:13.460 And that's where we are in this sad state of affairs.

00:57:16.080 I just shake my head and keep speaking my truth.

00:57:19.200 You know, I read something that you had said about growing up in Compton and this gang

00:57:23.800 life that was around you is talking about how you knew the truth because you saw these

00:57:29.040 guys who are so tough out there on the streets, but you also saw what it was like the toll

00:57:34.880 it took on them as men when they would come inside the house and, you know, occasionally

00:57:41.460 let their guard down.

00:57:43.140 That really stuck out at me because you never think of you never think of that piece of it.

00:57:49.020 Yeah, I was able to live through the experiences of I had three uncles.

00:57:53.480 No brothers, just two sisters and three uncles.

00:57:57.040 So those were my big brothers.

00:57:58.900 And two of them were murdered and one committed suicide, all involved with the street life.

00:58:05.360 What I was able to see through them was the reality of them going outside the house and

00:58:13.240 demanding, commanding power from the streets.

00:58:17.080 They were the man.

00:58:18.280 Everywhere they went, people bowed down to them, scared of them.

00:58:21.600 And I also saw them come in the house and got to see them behind the veil and the pain

00:58:28.020 and the suffering and how they were actually hurting on the inside.

00:58:32.240 That's why hurt people hurt people.

00:58:34.600 So I was already privy to knowing that the only people out there who are really messing

00:58:40.240 with me, who are coming after me, who are making me make this choice are to hurt people, are

00:58:45.660 the kids who mom and dad doesn't love them or they don't feel the love.

00:58:49.400 They have the broken home.

00:58:50.740 They don't have the support system I have.

00:58:53.240 So never be scared of that person because he's only swinging first because he's scared.

00:58:57.640 So I know that from growing up.

00:59:00.160 And now when I see all of this influx and the attack of propaganda, it feels the same

00:59:06.340 way.

00:59:06.840 And I just look and say, wow, what happened to the world where you can just go be who

00:59:12.260 you are?

00:59:13.240 Sometimes I'm over here.

00:59:14.660 Sometimes I'm over there, but I'm always there and allow people to have their social

00:59:19.520 space.

00:59:20.860 And, you know, it gets deeper than that.

00:59:22.880 You know, being a black man, sometimes you have to go with the black folk.

00:59:27.040 You got to go with the black stance and et cetera.

00:59:30.000 Being a woman, you got to go with the women's folk, women's stance.

00:59:33.180 And I just sit there and say, can we just listen?

00:59:35.960 Can we just look into what these issues are and then take a deeper dive and talk through

00:59:41.500 it?

00:59:42.500 So how did you manage to avoid that life?

00:59:46.140 How are you as accomplished as you are crushing it in so many different departments, not just

00:59:51.180 professionally, but family to notwithstanding that kind of a beginning?

00:59:55.660 Yeah, look, it started with an identity.

01:00:00.020 And my identity, I think the version I learned was more helpful than the traditional one.

01:00:06.960 A lot of times we go up to kids, you know, you've been there before the third grade class.

01:00:11.720 OK, who wants to be a fireman?

01:00:13.480 Me.

01:00:13.880 Who wants to be a doctor?

01:00:14.960 Me.

01:00:15.540 Who wants to be a football player?

01:00:16.660 All of us.

01:00:17.540 Right.

01:00:18.100 And I think we traditionally learn identity is what you want to be.

01:00:22.560 But I learned identity in a different way.

01:00:24.560 It's not just who you want to be and what you want to be, but who you are not.

01:00:30.760 And I had to learn to find out quickly who I was not, not just who I wanted to be and

01:00:36.880 who I was.

01:00:37.760 So I got to look at the world and focus in and have a narrow view on exactly who I was

01:00:44.900 based on all the things that I would not be.

01:00:48.160 I wasn't going to be a liar.

01:00:49.340 I wasn't going to be a thief.

01:00:50.200 I wasn't going to be a convict.

01:00:51.220 I wasn't going to be a crook.

01:00:52.140 I wasn't going to be a shyster, all these things.

01:00:54.840 And if you look at this world now, so many people were in pursuit of what they wanted

01:00:58.900 to be.

01:00:59.540 They didn't eliminate a lot of things that they wouldn't be.

01:01:02.300 So they stand for nothing and they fall for everything.

01:01:06.100 And I just think that I was blessed to have both parents in the home that gave me that

01:01:11.560 balance in that.

01:01:12.300 I had a lot of tough love, whether it was from the family or my neighborhood and surviving

01:01:18.740 that adversity allowed me to thrive in the real world because nothing's tougher than

01:01:25.880 what I've been through.

01:01:27.200 And more importantly, nothing's more complex than just trying to get home every single

01:01:33.900 day, using up your mental space just to navigate the BS of a daily trial growing up in Compton

01:01:41.880 and South Central.

01:01:43.040 So I use a lot of what I've been through to give me the strength, but also give me the

01:01:48.900 clarity to see things as they come my way.

01:01:51.380 So, wow, I mean, what a testament to your own resilience.

01:01:56.820 Before we move off of the U.S. Open and actually parlay the story you just told me into what's

01:02:01.240 happening with Michael Orr, who also had a difficult background, but then made it thanks

01:02:06.420 to football and some other intervening factors.

01:02:08.960 I got to spend a moment on Coco Gauff at the U.S. Open.

01:02:11.780 She's America's sweetheart.

01:02:14.520 She won the whole thing.

01:02:16.280 Yay, go Coco and go Team America.

01:02:18.180 Rebecca, she's only 19 years old.

01:02:22.280 Alcaraz is only 20, but he's not American, so I'm just going to take a moment for Coco.

01:02:27.600 She wins.

01:02:29.060 She gets out there.

01:02:29.980 This is a sweet moment where she talks about her dad.

01:02:32.260 She was there at the U.S. Open just like eight years ago as an observer watching Serena

01:02:37.500 and Venus.

01:02:38.480 But listen to this.

01:02:39.340 It's soundbite 11.

01:02:41.720 Today was the first time I've ever seen my dad cry.

01:02:45.680 He doesn't want me to tell you all that.

01:02:47.480 My dad took me to this tournament sitting right there watching Venus and Serena compete.

01:02:52.000 So it's really incredible to be on this stage.

01:02:55.900 The dad for the listening audience when she's saying he cried is giving her the like, no,

01:03:00.580 be quiet, like cut the neck moment, you know, with the fake hand.

01:03:04.780 That was so sweet.

01:03:05.900 It's so great just to see a nice, like celebratory.

01:03:09.080 Yes, father, daughter, you know, like family.

01:03:12.200 You can do it.

01:03:12.920 You can you can do you can believe in it.

01:03:14.760 And then she added something, which is kind of the theme of our show today.

01:03:19.260 Alan Dershowitz says the reason he made it so intellectually fruitful at 85 is because he has a list of enemies.

01:03:25.480 Listen to what Coco Gauff said about the haters.

01:03:29.420 Listen.

01:03:29.600 Honestly, thank you to the people who didn't believe in me, honestly, to those who thought were who those who thought who were putting water in my fire.

01:03:37.920 You're really adding gas to it.

01:03:39.440 And now I'm really burning so bright right now.

01:03:44.080 Ah, that's so great.

01:03:45.680 Right.

01:03:46.240 That was just it was just a nice moment.

01:03:47.800 There's no necessarily political commentary.

01:03:49.300 It's just a feel good moment on a good day.

01:03:51.200 Oh, that's it right there.

01:03:53.440 I mean, one thing I've learned is you you have to accept all that comes for whatever you want.

01:04:02.560 And that's the good, the bad, the ugly of it.

01:04:05.220 I tell people all the time, life is not a hundred meter race like set go and just go straight ahead and there's smooth course in front of you and then you finish.

01:04:13.840 That's not life.

01:04:14.940 If anything, life is more the 110 hurdles.

01:04:17.900 That means, yes, I'm a run, but, well, I got to get over this.

01:04:20.760 I got to get over that.

01:04:21.620 I got to get over this.

01:04:22.980 And life just presents adversity to you so it can sharpen you.

01:04:28.140 It sharpens your sword through that adversity.

01:04:31.240 But so many people want to avoid that.

01:04:33.260 And in avoiding that, you actually lose the opportunity to be your greater version.

01:04:39.560 So you got to almost welcome adversity.

01:04:41.820 No one raises their hand to say, let me have a problem today so I can be better tomorrow.

01:04:45.720 But at the same time, when you go through it, you get to it.

01:04:49.900 And that's what she went through.

01:04:51.660 She went through a lot of down times.

01:04:54.000 And it's full circle for me, too.

01:04:56.420 I wanted a John Elway jersey when I was in 11th grade.

01:05:00.180 $69.99.

01:05:01.200 Cost too much.

01:05:02.220 I said, all right, mama, I get it.

01:05:03.540 We're broke.

01:05:04.160 We don't have it.

01:05:05.340 I fast forward.

01:05:06.240 My first game ever in the NFL is against the Denver Broncos.

01:05:09.740 And instead of a Foot Locker jersey that I couldn't afford on the field, it was the actual 7 Elway, the man himself.

01:05:17.720 So it happens to so many people.

01:05:20.080 Yes.

01:05:20.460 Oh, my gosh.

01:05:21.920 That's incredible.

01:05:22.660 I don't have my football dates in my head.

01:05:24.900 But he was playing in that game?

01:05:27.280 Is that John Elway was still playing and you played against him?

01:05:29.860 That's what you're saying?

01:05:30.480 Yes.

01:05:31.120 I played against him.

01:05:32.600 1997.

01:05:33.660 First game.

01:05:34.360 I'm looking like I can't believe Foot Locker came to life.

01:05:37.560 The $69.99 is now priceless.

01:05:40.460 That's him right there.

01:05:41.940 Can't say no to me now, mama.

01:05:43.780 That's the man, John Elway.

01:05:46.200 That's incredible.

01:05:47.500 I will say there was a moment at the U.S. Open, not yesterday, but I think the day before they were showing.

01:05:53.060 It was kind of annoying, Marcellus.

01:05:54.580 Because I watched that one on TV.

01:05:56.460 It was the Alcaraz match against Medvedev.

01:05:58.840 And, my God, they were obsessed with the celebrities in the audience.

01:06:03.140 It was like Charlize Theron, Nicole Kidman, Tom Brady.

01:06:08.100 Back to Tom Brady.

01:06:09.560 And then yesterday was some Matthew McConaughey.

01:06:12.320 I was like, could you just show me the fucking match?

01:06:14.780 Sorry.

01:06:15.200 Forget it.

01:06:15.420 I was just like, stop.

01:06:16.420 Stop with these celebrity obsession.

01:06:19.640 I don't care about them.

01:06:22.080 Oh, you sound like me.

01:06:23.920 You know, I'm actually fighting this.

01:06:25.400 So, this is hilarious to bring this up.

01:06:26.780 Because it's something stirring in my spirit.

01:06:28.880 And I'm staying strong.

01:06:30.240 But I feel that pressure, that urge.

01:06:32.140 So, I'm a seasoned ticket holder at the L.A. Chargers.

01:06:35.700 I'm a former San Diego Charger.

01:06:37.640 And long story short.

01:06:39.700 I started playing football at eight years young in Englewood across the street for what at the time was the Hollywood Racetrack, which is no longer there.

01:06:50.660 It's SoFi Stadium, where the Chargers play, where I used to play for the Chargers.

01:06:56.100 So, I'm thinking, like, my spirit is like, dude, come on, full circle.

01:07:00.080 And you're a seasoned ticket holder.

01:07:01.720 You're the man.

01:07:02.880 But I want to sit in the crowd.

01:07:05.060 Now, every single person that sees me sitting in the crowd, like everyone else, they're like, why are you not in the luxury suites?

01:07:12.240 Why are you not in the box?

01:07:13.240 Why are you not in the owner's suite?

01:07:14.240 Why are you not taking advantage of your celebrity?

01:07:15.900 I'm like, because I want the experience that everyone gets.

01:07:21.060 I don't want the air-conditioned, catered experience.

01:07:24.400 Oh, they're still playing out there.

01:07:26.360 I want to be in there when you jump up excited.

01:07:29.820 Guess what?

01:07:30.320 The beer spilled on me, too.

01:07:32.680 And I'm okay with that.

01:07:35.200 And it's just constant.

01:07:36.440 People always try to give you that celebrity lens to look at life.

01:07:41.700 And let me give you this, Megan.

01:07:43.020 Yesterday, J.C. Jackson got an interception and literally ran to our section and threw the football up to me.

01:07:51.480 I handed it to my son.

01:07:53.320 And then that moment, it justified me staying out there with everyone else instead of the celebrity suites.

01:08:00.500 That's awesome.

01:08:01.600 Awesome.

01:08:02.160 Oh, that's amazing.

01:08:03.280 Yeah, and you want your kids to have that experience, too.

01:08:05.600 You don't want them to grow up like, oh, I'm better than everybody.

01:08:08.800 I'm so snooty.

01:08:09.940 I only go to the luxury box.

01:08:11.900 We looked at the luxury box, like the main one where the celebs were.

01:08:16.620 And half the time, because they go into the box and they eat and they drink,

01:08:20.180 and then there are the seats right in front of it where they sit and watch the match.

01:08:23.120 Those seats were empty for more than half the final because they were doing exactly what you're saying.

01:08:27.740 They missed so much of it because they were glad handing back there, probably asking for selfies instead of actually watching a great match.

01:08:35.140 By the way, on the subject of football, so Tua, it's very dicey to try.

01:08:41.380 Tua has such a long last name.

01:08:42.360 Don't do it.

01:08:42.780 Teglia Vola.

01:08:43.880 Don't do it.

01:08:43.900 Don't do it.

01:08:44.060 Tua is back.

01:08:46.160 Tua is back, despite he was the one who had the terrible concussion and it was shown on tape.

01:08:50.400 And we really wondered whether he should have been playing because he had already had a concussion.

01:08:53.960 You could see him shaking his hands.

01:08:55.900 He's playing again.

01:08:58.120 I don't know.

01:08:59.220 What do you think?

01:08:59.860 What do you make of it?

01:09:00.540 Because there is a push right now in lots of high schools and middle schools and even peewee football.

01:09:05.520 Don't put your kid in football.

01:09:06.840 It's too dangerous.

01:09:07.820 Look at guys like Tua.

01:09:09.320 I know we could cite a bunch of other examples.

01:09:11.020 It's dangerous.

01:09:12.440 What do you make of it?

01:09:13.040 Yeah, I got to see Tua yesterday live and in person.

01:09:17.160 He threw that interception that J.C. Jackson threw the ball to me to give him my son.

01:09:21.720 I was Tua there.

01:09:23.720 But, you know, football's done much more for me than I've ever done for the game of football.

01:09:29.240 That said, football hurts every single day in every single way, whether it's physical, whether it's emotional.

01:09:38.400 It's a game of skill and a greater game of will.

01:09:42.600 You have to fight through everything you earn in football.

01:09:47.620 That's why it's the ultimate team sport.

01:09:49.140 And that's why it's the best sport to translate life through.

01:09:53.780 But it comes with its hardships.

01:09:55.700 It comes with its issues.

01:09:57.160 My son is a football player, a flag football player at eight years old.

01:10:02.200 When he gets to high school, we're going to have a long conversation, if he wants to continue to play football, about him playing tackle football.

01:10:10.580 Now, I'm a former football player who, at eight years old, was playing tackle football.

01:10:15.560 And I would never sign my kids up for that.

01:10:18.280 Different times, different culture, and different understanding of the sport.

01:10:21.800 But I do not go to the extreme of saying I won't allow my kid to play football because I'm going to allow any human being to live out their passions if that's what they desire to do.

01:10:35.800 So once he gets to an age where he can understand the good and bad of what comes from football, because it's tremendous in terms of what it offers you and discipline, work ethic, toughness.

01:10:48.460 But also, it comes with its shortcomings.

01:10:51.380 Like, you're going to have times where someone hits you, and you're going to forget what planet you're on.

01:10:56.920 And, you know, I'm not going to say to take the good with the bad, but there are far more great things that come from football than the things that it takes away from you.

01:11:06.680 And it's so fun to watch.

01:11:08.200 I mean, my kids were saying we were in Arthur Ashe Stadium.

01:11:11.420 They looked it up.

01:11:12.140 You know, kids love statistics.

01:11:13.200 And they're like, this stadium seats 24,730 people, whatever it was.

01:11:18.460 Which was great.

01:11:19.500 And it's actually not so big that it's unmanageable.

01:11:22.140 Like, every seat is pretty good.

01:11:24.020 And then we started looking up how many your average NFL stadium seats.

01:11:29.320 It was like 60, 80, 70,000.

01:11:34.260 You know, think of it.

01:11:35.260 My kids couldn't get over there.

01:11:36.380 Like, wait a minute.

01:11:37.720 It's like four times as many people.

01:11:42.040 The thrill of that, Marcellus.

01:11:43.840 I mean, that must be so hard to leave it.

01:11:47.240 And you can see why so many guys chase it.

01:11:50.560 Just there's that.

01:11:51.840 And then there's everything else.

01:11:53.840 Yeah.

01:11:54.220 Let's talk through that.

01:11:55.140 Like, the best moments of football.

01:11:57.420 You never replace them.

01:12:00.180 It's impossible to upstage them.

01:12:03.320 But you can get something comparable.

01:12:06.160 So here's the thing.

01:12:06.900 The best part of football is obviously the locker room.

01:12:09.320 Just all these relationships.

01:12:10.500 Think about this world.

01:12:11.800 And we're getting so far away from this world.

01:12:14.620 I used to love playing football because I didn't have any brothers.

01:12:17.920 So I walk into a locker room.

01:12:19.800 There are 52 other dudes.

01:12:22.400 And they're from all parts of the world.

01:12:25.360 Not just country.

01:12:26.760 World.

01:12:27.500 And we all live different.

01:12:29.000 Some are short.

01:12:29.680 Some are tall.

01:12:30.300 Some are fat.

01:12:31.000 Some are in check.

01:12:31.680 And we all have different world views.

01:12:34.280 Some are hunters.

01:12:35.660 Some will go out there and kill and then eat it.

01:12:38.180 Some of us are city boys.

01:12:39.740 Scared of mosquitoes.

01:12:40.920 And we're all in there together.

01:12:44.220 Bringing our ideas and viewpoints.

01:12:47.020 Talking about everything.

01:12:48.780 Laughing at all our pain.

01:12:50.860 And then leaving that room.

01:12:52.780 And even disagreement.

01:12:54.600 For one thing.

01:12:55.680 One goal.

01:12:56.440 One common pursuit.

01:12:57.360 To me, that was like the best world I could ever live in.

01:13:00.760 But the best experiences are simple.

01:13:03.140 You walk out of a locker room.

01:13:05.020 All of you guys.

01:13:06.500 And you're walking down the tunnel.

01:13:08.740 And it's the cleats.

01:13:10.240 The cleats hitting the concrete of the tunnel.

01:13:13.000 And making that marching band sound like drum line.

01:13:16.000 And just 53 guys in unison going somewhere.

01:13:20.220 To hit the turf.

01:13:21.560 And it went from darkness to light.

01:13:23.860 And when the light is there, you hear the crowd roar.

01:13:26.640 And 80,000 people are there at your bed and mercy.

01:13:31.180 They're waiting for you to do something to make them erupt.

01:13:34.300 You have total control of that environment based on your performance.

01:13:38.860 You don't find that anywhere else.

01:13:41.760 You find something comparable that gets you excited.

01:13:44.600 But that passion, that space, is only reserved for that game of football.

01:13:50.460 It's something special.

01:13:52.100 It really is.

01:13:52.800 We went to a Giants game last year.

01:13:54.980 And I felt it just as a spectator sitting there.

01:13:57.200 It's like, this is big.

01:13:58.760 It's huge.

01:14:00.080 And our Giants aren't doing so well this year.

01:14:01.740 So we'll just move on.

01:14:02.580 Maybe we'll go see the Knicks or something.

01:14:04.060 I don't know.

01:14:04.420 It's not looking so good in ourselves.

01:14:05.860 All right.

01:14:07.080 Let's talk about Michael Orr.

01:14:09.400 Because I thought of you on this subject.

01:14:12.580 So I remember from the last time, you saying when you were growing up in Compton, one of

01:14:16.840 the shows you loved to watch was Different Strokes.

01:14:20.240 I read that in your packet.

01:14:21.940 You loved Different Strokes.

01:14:23.080 And I thought, oh, well, today, these lefty writers would say you have a white savior complex

01:14:28.000 because you're not allowed to like Different Strokes anymore because the white guy adopted

01:14:32.100 the two black kids.

01:14:33.640 And that's why we're not allowed to like the blind side because the white family, I don't

01:14:38.100 know, it's not adopted, but imposed a conservative ship on Michael or the.

01:14:41.800 So this turned into this massive fight.

01:14:44.260 And the litigation is ongoing.

01:14:46.020 He's suing the twoies.

01:14:47.660 Their relationship memorialized in the blind side, just in case folks are not up to speed

01:14:51.200 and saying they didn't actually adopt me.

01:14:53.280 They misrepresented what they were doing with me.

01:14:55.120 Um, I didn't get any of the proceeds of the blind side, the book by Michael Lewis or the

01:15:00.180 movie that became so popular afterwards, starring Sandra Bullock, in which she won an Oscar for

01:15:05.140 portraying Leanne Tui.

01:15:06.540 And, um, I want money.

01:15:08.980 I want it.

01:15:09.500 And now, so now he's just now he's not backing down because this, the family hired a legal

01:15:13.700 gunslinger named Marty Singer.

01:15:15.480 And he's saying, this is ridiculous.

01:15:17.520 This guy tried to extort this loving family said, give me several million between five and

01:15:22.080 eight million dollars or else I'm going to go public with it.

01:15:23.940 They said, no, we love you.

01:15:25.720 Don't do this to us.

01:15:26.660 You're our third child.

01:15:27.960 He's still pushing it.

01:15:29.140 And the latest was he's demanding now a full accounting of all their money.

01:15:33.400 Uh, they're the twoies money, the money they made off of all these projects.

01:15:36.500 Yes.

01:15:37.140 Uh, so he's basically trying to, you know, subject them and their finances to the fine

01:15:41.520 tooth comb so he can figure out how much, if any, he's owed.

01:15:44.780 And this as just, it was about two weeks ago, yet another white supremacy piece drops in

01:15:54.500 connection with this whole story.

01:15:56.060 I just want to give you the background because this, these pieces are coming now fast and

01:15:59.140 furiously in the wake of this, uh, story.

01:16:01.340 This is by Elizabeth Spires is dated August 26th.

01:16:04.480 Uh, and she writes, I have a pretty good idea why Michael or is angry.

01:16:08.460 My, my, I'm having a problem seeing up close.

01:16:11.440 I got to put on my readers.

01:16:12.920 I never wear readers, but my eyes bother me.

01:16:14.740 Yeah.

01:16:15.000 So here, this is my, this is my intellectual look.

01:16:17.920 This is what she says.

01:16:18.660 Uh, first she says the perception of adoption as an act of altruism is exponentially more

01:16:25.620 pronounced when black kids are adopted by white parents.

01:16:28.560 It implies, she says that black children need to be rescued by white people and that makes

01:16:33.980 white people feel good about doing it.

01:16:36.200 See, this is what you were going through when you watched different strokes.

01:16:38.380 You just didn't know it.

01:16:39.260 This is often referred to as white savior syndrome.

01:16:43.520 The idea that black children are automatically better off with nice white parents than their

01:16:48.100 own biological parents is just white supremacy.

01:16:51.700 I mean, it's like, well, maybe depends on the circumstance lady.

01:16:55.100 It depends on the black parent, the white parent.

01:16:57.200 All right.

01:16:57.760 She goes on to say, it doesn't always arrive.

01:16:59.700 White supremacy doesn't always arrive wearing a white pointed hood or muttering racial slurs.

01:17:05.400 It's often just a presumption of white benevolence.

01:17:08.800 This is all in the context of the Michael or two.

01:17:10.660 We fight.

01:17:11.260 She writes nowhere.

01:17:12.400 Is this more apparent than at schools like Briarcrest.

01:17:14.880 That's where Michael or went when things do in part, the two.

01:17:18.300 Which were founded amid desegregation by people who regarded themselves as nice white parents

01:17:23.660 and who did not want their children to attend school with black children.

01:17:27.940 She goes on from there talking about how this whole story is an example of white saviorism.

01:17:33.460 The two is ought to be ashamed of themselves or trying to help Michael or.

01:17:36.940 And she objects big time to Michael Lewis's portrayal of or as maybe not the brightest bulb in the

01:17:43.000 entire school, which is one of his complaints.

01:17:46.160 But what do you make of the whole controversy now as history gets rewritten every day?

01:17:52.100 Pure ignorance beyond ignorant.

01:17:54.960 My first pushback is this is something that a lot of people are guilty of of late.

01:18:00.940 Like it's really growing in numbers of this time shift.

01:18:05.060 So what they will use is an aesthetic of today's time, something in the present that looks a certain

01:18:11.080 way.

01:18:11.400 And then we'll connect it to something that occurred in the past and says, see, this is

01:18:17.780 another example of that without coloring in the actual content and context that makes those

01:18:25.240 two completely different things.

01:18:27.520 But off a quick glimpse, hey, it's a black guy got adapted by white people.

01:18:32.520 Then we could go back 50 years when this school didn't even want black kids there.

01:18:36.860 And I'm like, are we doing this again?

01:18:40.100 And let me push back with this.

01:18:41.940 This is my real example.

01:18:43.480 So Different Spokes was my favorite show growing up.

01:18:46.720 What people don't know is that I grew up my grandmother's house in Compton.

01:18:52.700 And we had two patients that we were taking care of.

01:18:58.240 One was a war veteran and one was an older lady, elderly lady who had some mental health

01:19:06.540 issues.

01:19:07.860 Both of them were white.

01:19:10.440 I grew up in a world that is trying to whisper and if not yell to me that white people are

01:19:18.040 superior, that there's white supremacy.

01:19:20.480 And I'm hearing that.

01:19:21.500 And as you grow older, you see more examples of racism and segregation and discrimination.

01:19:28.240 You hear all that.

01:19:29.200 But imagine the kid that is growing up on welfare that's black that takes care of two white people.

01:19:38.980 So I'm all over the place in terms of this dynamic because I never, ever bought into white

01:19:45.920 people have something that I don't have.

01:19:48.740 Matter of fact, when you really pushed me, I said, I know at least two white people that need me for

01:19:55.940 their daily necessities.

01:19:58.440 They count on me.

01:19:59.960 So when you're walking around feeling inferior, if you are, how do you reconcile that with my

01:20:06.160 existence?

01:20:07.260 A welfare black kid in Compton taking care of white people.

01:20:11.180 So that's kind of my foundation.

01:20:13.120 So that made me always have to look deeper in detail to every circumstance.

01:20:19.280 You're never going to catch me with some lazy flyover saying black, white, what do you think?

01:20:25.000 And I'm like, I'm not thinking anything until you tell me something.

01:20:28.100 And that's where we are in this situation.

01:20:30.580 Michael Orr, my first glance at it, I was like, oh, just on timeline, just on the dates, I was

01:20:38.540 skeptical.

01:20:39.200 I was like, Michael Orr, why now?

01:20:41.940 You know, this movie is a decade of why now?

01:20:45.120 But then I will give them this.

01:20:47.840 It's OK to ask for full accounting from someone, except why does it have to be antagonistic?

01:20:55.800 Why does it have to be adversarial?

01:20:57.300 Why do you have to combat someone who obviously opened up their heart, their home to you?

01:21:02.880 If anything, if I have any suspicion, I would have done it privately.

01:21:07.040 And I would say, can we just do a full forensic audit?

01:21:10.820 That's it.

01:21:11.560 And you guys would have never found out about it.

01:21:13.820 Just for the thanks of taking me in as they did.

01:21:18.240 But I'm not Michael Orr.

01:21:20.080 And this situation doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

01:21:23.380 It's crazy how so many, this is just the one example, but we could have gone

01:21:27.140 down the list.

01:21:27.740 And we did when Jason Whitlock was on of the number of writers who have gone with the

01:21:32.660 the two E's are suspect because they adopted or performed this conservatorship for a black

01:21:38.480 boy.

01:21:38.860 Like we're sick of the white people doing this to satisfy their need for white

01:21:43.220 saviorship.

01:21:43.660 We're sick of the success of that movie because white people need to see themselves portrayed

01:21:47.860 as saviors.

01:21:48.540 And as I read this line in this piece, the idea that black children are automatically

01:21:52.480 better off with white parents than their own biological parents is just white supremacy.

01:21:56.820 No one's saying that they're automatically better off.

01:21:59.840 Who's saying that in this particular case of Michael or the two E's what swooped in and

01:22:07.540 helped him in a way that was really heartwarming.

01:22:10.820 His mother, Jason Whitlock actually took a deep dive on or his book and then also the blind

01:22:18.280 side.

01:22:18.780 And this was the reporting or his mother was addicted to crack cocaine and birthed a dozen

01:22:23.140 children with a variety of men.

01:22:24.860 She would disappear for days, ingesting cocaine with friends.

01:22:27.620 Her kids as young as 14 months would be left locked out of their apartment.

01:22:31.380 This was a regular pattern.

01:22:32.820 State social workers eventually intervened or moved from foster home to foster home.

01:22:37.400 So yeah, removal from that particular home was a plus from, from Michael or irrespective

01:22:43.240 of the skin color, right?

01:22:44.660 But everything's got to be racialized.

01:22:46.320 It's just sad.

01:22:47.420 It's sad how it gets exploited by these, you know, people with an agenda.

01:22:51.700 Yeah.

01:22:52.100 With an agenda and no experience, like, um, excuse me, my mother's a crack addict.

01:22:57.820 Uh, I will take any stable, secure home, black, white, orange.

01:23:03.440 But now since it's a narrative, since it's something that we can say in prose instead of experience,

01:23:09.300 now we can now make this look different and re-identify the particulars of this situation.

01:23:16.920 Michael or wouldn't have cared where he went, long as it was better than at that time.

01:23:23.640 For us to now retroactively redefine that to me is absurd and they do it all the time.

01:23:29.360 They do it so many ways and it's hilarious because it's really because of the symbolism.

01:23:35.080 It's because of the value system that people have placed on white America, black America, etc.

01:23:41.680 And they don't want to really dive into it.

01:23:43.900 Uh, are white people richer than black people in general?

01:23:48.200 Yes.

01:23:48.900 Are white people poorer than black people in numbers?

01:23:53.560 Yes.

01:23:54.340 So people don't, they always switch it on you.

01:23:57.340 It's like, you can't just say white and make me think something.

01:24:00.460 But they want you to, you can't just say black and make me think something.

01:24:04.600 They want you to.

01:24:05.960 And if you don't stand strong in the details of every one of these circumstances, you'll

01:24:12.440 get washed away in ignorance like that author is.

01:24:15.920 Hmm.

01:24:16.540 Well said.

01:24:17.340 All right.

01:24:17.580 Stand by much, much more with Marcellus Wiley, who stays with us.

01:24:20.840 Uh, we're going to take a quick break and come right back.

01:24:22.840 My guest today, Marcellus Wiley, host of Never Shut Up.

01:24:31.440 That also happens to be President Trump's philosophy.

01:24:34.540 Uh, he comments a lot on his ongoing legal battles and many other things.

01:24:38.920 Uh, but he is still running for president, notwithstanding the four indictments and having

01:24:42.300 to deal with that.

01:24:42.880 He's running for president and you haven't seen him a ton on the campaign trail because

01:24:45.820 he's been busy dealing with all the legal nonsense, but he hit it.

01:24:49.180 He hit it this past weekend.

01:24:50.320 He went out to Iowa, which one must do when running for president and made some fun of

01:24:56.880 it.

01:24:57.040 I mean, I thought this was a good choice.

01:24:58.580 Went to the Iowa, Iowa state football game as did a bunch of the others, but none of the

01:25:03.040 others had welcomes like President Trump.

01:25:06.420 Here he is.

01:25:07.460 Um, arrive.

01:25:08.400 I think this is the arrival video.

01:25:10.020 Let's see.

01:25:10.620 Um, when he walked in, let's take a look at it.

01:25:20.320 It's crazy for the listening audience.

01:25:22.240 I mean, it's, it's like what, you know, it's a Taylor Swift concert.

01:25:26.440 Trump is in the middle.

01:25:32.580 Everyone's got their phones up just trying to get a snapshot of the man, just a quick

01:25:37.940 snapshot of him.

01:25:38.980 Uh, and then inside the stadium and the mainstream wrote this up as like, he was booed inside

01:25:45.200 the stadium.

01:25:45.600 I'm like, he was mostly cheered.

01:25:47.360 There was like a smattering of booze.

01:25:48.860 How would you write this up as mostly booed?

01:25:50.540 But here it is.

01:26:15.920 All right.

01:26:16.440 So there you have it.

01:26:17.200 So what do you make of Trump in Iowa?

01:26:22.780 Because right now he's up almost 30 points over his next competitor.

01:26:27.980 Yeah, hilarious.

01:26:30.240 First of all, how they tried to make that sound and look different than what we actually just

01:26:35.920 witnessed.

01:26:36.760 Um, everybody that's never stepped on that field has been cheered and booed.

01:26:41.220 And that's just the way the game goes.

01:26:43.000 So any state have you ever been in?

01:26:45.140 That's it.

01:26:45.720 It's always a mix.

01:26:46.640 Maybe at different levels, but always a mix.

01:26:50.120 Um, think about Trump.

01:26:52.080 He's going to win Iowa.

01:26:53.160 Uh, think about Trump that I think doesn't get enough attention is that Trump reminds us

01:26:58.320 all of how it all started.

01:27:00.860 This is my summation of Trump and why he's so polarizing.

01:27:04.180 Um, people love him or love to hate him.

01:27:07.180 Nothing in between.

01:27:08.100 And we know a lot of great athletes, Floyd Mayweather comes to mind, that people have

01:27:12.860 failed into that dynamic.

01:27:14.580 Love me or love to hate me.

01:27:16.640 When you're born, you're fearless.

01:27:19.020 Don't believe me?

01:27:19.920 Have kids.

01:27:21.140 Kids don't care.

01:27:22.720 Kids will go anywhere, say anything, do anything until you teach them differently.

01:27:29.080 Socialize them as this world will do.

01:27:32.240 Now, the problem is, not the kids, some bad teachers out there, some bad parents out there,

01:27:38.000 and I call them out when I see them, that don't do the necessary job for helping their

01:27:42.720 kids keep that fearlessness, but direct it properly.

01:27:46.340 What Trump is, regardless of politics, is someone that we all can sit back and say is fearless,

01:27:54.360 because he will say exactly what he feels.

01:27:58.300 Now, that gets them in trouble.

01:27:59.720 That gets them all out of sorts at times.

01:28:02.620 But that is a quality we all possess, and many have lost sight and grip of.

01:28:09.820 So Trump is always going to get that type of reaction.

01:28:12.860 He's always going to be the guy that shows up.

01:28:15.540 And like you said, is that a Taylor Swift concert, or just a presidential hopeful once

01:28:21.400 again, going out there just to rally the troops?

01:28:24.500 So I think you got to do the necessary evils of going to Iowa, but there's no way he loses

01:28:30.340 that.

01:28:31.160 And largely, it's because people rally around that spirit in him.

01:28:35.780 Even people who don't like him, they can't stop talking about him.

01:28:38.780 I'm like, OK, last time I checked, the things I don't like in this world, I give no energy

01:28:43.320 to.

01:28:43.700 But not you.

01:28:45.900 You just keep talking about him, which creates this driving force a lot more of a headwind.

01:28:51.460 It's so true.

01:28:53.020 So Trump, and by the way, speaking of Trump, just to remind our audience, I'm interviewing

01:28:57.540 him on Wednesday.

01:28:58.340 We'll air it on Thursday right here on the Megyn Kelly show.

01:29:01.520 I know.

01:29:01.780 So that'll be fun.

01:29:02.600 First time we've sat down together in seven years, looking very much forward to it.

01:29:07.900 But I think that we need to give Joe Biden some credit, too.

01:29:10.860 He, too, says how he actually feels.

01:29:13.660 Like in the middle of his overseas trip, I need to go to bed.

01:29:18.220 I'm tired.

01:29:19.380 And I'm what?

01:29:20.860 Look at this bizarre mashup of his little press conference he had while in Vietnam over the

01:29:27.660 weekend.

01:29:27.860 Watch.

01:29:29.260 Let's follow my orders here.

01:29:32.740 Staff, if anybody haven't spoken, I ain't calling on you.

01:29:37.440 I'm calling on you.

01:29:38.000 I said you have five questions.

01:29:39.480 The Indian looks at John Wayne and points to the union show and says, he's a lion, dog-faced

01:29:44.740 pony soldier.

01:29:46.520 What was the other lion, dog-faced pony soldier out there about total warming?

01:29:51.060 He may have a game plan.

01:29:58.420 He just hasn't shared it with me.

01:30:00.700 But I tell you what, I don't know about you, but I'm going to go to bed.

01:30:06.820 Could you even understand most of it?

01:30:09.780 I don't even understand half of what I heard.

01:30:12.540 Man, that is the leader of the free world right there.

01:30:16.160 The only thing I take from Joe Biden right now is kind of like when you're in a game

01:30:22.980 and you're playing and you're like, yeah, we're not going to win this one, but I got

01:30:27.440 to keep fighting because I am on this team.

01:30:29.880 But when is this going to end?

01:30:32.660 Like, you're just like, when is this going to come to an end?

01:30:35.500 It's scoreboard watching.

01:30:36.520 We call it scoreboard watching.

01:30:37.680 Like, you don't quit.

01:30:38.860 You're just not into it as much as you used to be because you know the outcome.

01:30:43.100 Oh, man, it's not even age with Joe Biden.

01:30:47.700 Like, I think a lot of people hide behind that conveniently.

01:30:50.360 Like, no.

01:30:51.020 As you just said, we had Dershowitz on there and he was, I mean, come on.

01:30:54.000 It's not that.

01:30:55.620 There's something at play here that we just can't put our finger on except he's evaporating

01:31:03.560 right before our very eyes in terms of capacity.

01:31:06.820 And maybe that's clinical.

01:31:09.340 Some could say it's because of his age.

01:31:11.000 I just say, look, it is what it is.

01:31:14.020 What time is this game in so we can get back to balling out and winning championships as

01:31:19.180 a country and as a society?

01:31:21.560 But we got to we got to make sure that the clock goes to zero right now in terms of his

01:31:25.800 presidential tenure.

01:31:27.240 And we're not there just yet.

01:31:29.300 It's so true.

01:31:30.000 What time does this end?

01:31:31.460 When is this over?

01:31:32.920 And yet yet, you know, the polls between Biden and Trump, the hypothetical matchup are neck

01:31:39.160 and neck, you know, Biden up one, Trump up to Trump up one Biden.

01:31:44.400 You know, it's it's not like, OK, Trump's running away with it.

01:31:48.080 Or even if you sub out Trump, if you sub in Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis, no one's running

01:31:52.880 away with it.

01:31:53.520 Like maybe that's just because we're so divided as a country.

01:31:56.700 You know, we're split down the middle politically and people have their agenda and they really

01:32:00.220 just want a button pusher for their issues on their side.

01:32:03.320 But you would think take Trump out of it because he is controversial.

01:32:07.120 You would think if you put in generic Republican against the house, let's just call five people

01:32:12.720 going to bed by a pony, pony pusher or whatever.

01:32:18.320 I don't want to say that the numbers would be totally lopsided.

01:32:23.020 Yeah, you know, the problem is it's like this cocktail party syndrome where you ever go to

01:32:29.900 a party and everyone is sitting in those little huddles.

01:32:33.060 So it's five over here, five over here.

01:32:35.120 We're all drinking.

01:32:36.100 Some of us know each other.

01:32:37.700 We meet new people.

01:32:39.180 And someone says something and you're like, yo, what the hell did they just say?

01:32:43.280 But you're thinking that.

01:32:45.360 But you're not going to say that.

01:32:48.140 I raise my hand.

01:32:49.280 I'm typically the one who says, hey, man, what the hell did you just say?

01:32:51.760 Or excuse me, what?

01:32:52.680 Because we all want to go with the flow and just keep going.

01:32:58.380 And then there's a moment of truth that always occurs when someone says something or someone

01:33:02.600 steps out and says, I challenge that.

01:33:05.200 And you know what always happens when one person challenges that?

01:33:08.560 Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

01:33:10.700 And then now it starts to snowball.

01:33:12.760 So what happens in this, this is our cycle.

01:33:15.500 We do this.

01:33:16.140 Trump won't get his fair due, whatever that is, until everyone's private in that voting

01:33:22.860 booth, in that ballot box.

01:33:25.020 And now we don't have to talk about it anymore.

01:33:27.300 Just make your vote and do what you do.

01:33:29.140 Watch how it swings in those moments.

01:33:31.580 But leading up to that moment, people are not going to stop the flow.

01:33:35.120 They want to keep the party going, keep the drinks flowing, not say anything that disturbs

01:33:39.640 what the mainstream is selling.

01:33:41.680 And they're selling a lot of the left.

01:33:43.780 They're selling a lot of the principles that Biden is pronouncing.

01:33:47.660 So I see it in my family.

01:33:50.220 I see it in my friend circles.

01:33:52.300 I'm like, you're literally just saying that because you don't want to resist and say the

01:33:57.400 truth.

01:33:58.080 And they kind of get to that point of shaking their head like, yeah, you're right.

01:34:01.640 I like the path of police resistance.

01:34:03.680 I'm like, but that is leading us to destruction, the path of police resistance.

01:34:08.520 But that's the cycle we can bring.

01:34:10.420 You just brought back traumatic memories because I'm not good at small talk, Marcellus.

01:34:14.740 Like I go to a cocktail party and I hate them.

01:34:17.200 I'm a bad mingler.

01:34:18.780 Like I'm a good long form conversationalist, but I'm a bad mingler and I feel awkward as

01:34:24.320 hell.

01:34:24.580 And usually I just wind up doing the thing that like I learned from reading bonfire.

01:34:29.480 The vanities by Tom Wolf is like the least cool, most like abhorred thing there is to

01:34:35.160 do, which is finding your spouse.

01:34:37.380 And I'll talk to my spouse.

01:34:38.760 And apparently this is the mark of social death at the car.

01:34:41.660 I didn't know.

01:34:42.500 But it's like, you know, your security blanket.

01:34:44.600 So what person, you know, wants to talk to you?

01:34:46.880 I feel like you and Anne-Marie, you're probably the stars of every party.

01:34:50.020 Oh, we talk a lot.

01:34:52.880 She tries to hide me sometimes because I am that icebreaker.

01:34:56.220 But that comes with a sharp point.

01:34:58.080 That means I'm not letting anything just flow.

01:35:00.440 I'm always thinking of the future, my kids.

01:35:03.340 And I'm like, I can't let BS just go.

01:35:05.480 We got to talk through it, learn or unlearn.

01:35:07.820 But we talk through it.

01:35:09.640 Oh, well, I want to go to one of those parties and talk through it with you.

01:35:12.880 That's why you have to check out Never Shut Up on YouTube.

01:35:17.560 That's where you can find Marcellus.

01:35:18.660 Such a pleasure.

01:35:19.400 Thank you for coming back.

01:35:22.180 Always.

01:35:22.760 I appreciate you, Megan.

01:35:23.840 I'll see you at one of these small talk cocktail parties soon.

01:35:26.360 Let's do it.

01:35:27.540 You're on.

01:35:28.500 I look forward to it.

01:35:29.760 All right.

01:35:30.000 And don't forget, folks, later this week, I will be sitting down with former President

01:35:33.700 Donald Trump.

01:35:35.280 What would you like me to ask him?

01:35:37.920 And you know what?

01:35:38.480 It'd be great if you tell me your politics and the question, because I would like to come

01:35:41.040 at him from the right and the left.

01:35:43.140 You know, it's fun to sort of let's see how he does, because if he makes it to the general

01:35:47.160 election, he's going to get the questions from the left.

01:35:48.940 And right now he's getting the questions from the right trying to win this nomination.

01:35:52.000 So let me know what your politics are and tell me what you'd like to hear.

01:35:55.940 I when I did this with DeSantis, I got some great suggestions and many of them were

01:36:00.480 incorporated into the thinking that I was using going into the interview.

01:36:03.480 Uh, it's Megan, M-E-G-Y-N at MeganKelley.com.

01:36:08.400 While you're there, sign up for our newsletter at MeganKelley.com and you will all learn about

01:36:12.140 all about Stradwick's antics, which today included eating Abigail Finan's lunch just

01:36:17.080 as soon as she got here.

01:36:18.080 It's already gone.

01:36:19.120 Bye.

01:36:20.100 Talk to you tomorrow.

01:36:25.140 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:36:27.060 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:36:33.480 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

The Megyn Kelly Show - September 11, 2023

Left's 14th Amendment Fantasies, Novak's Big Victory, and 9⧸11 Memories, with Alan Dershowitz and Marcellus Wiley ｜ Ep. 624

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