The Megyn Kelly Show - Leftist Sydney Sweeney Gaslighting, Beyonce Joins Discourse, and New Russiagate Revelations, with Charlie Kirk and Michael Shellenberger

00:00:00.000 What are the new technologies that will change aviation?

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00:00:30.660 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:00:42.360 Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:44.220 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.640 We have Charlie Kirk coming up in just a moment, but we're going to begin with explosive new revelations on how the Obama administration pushed the Russiagate hoax.

00:00:55.920 There's a whistleblower now coming forward who's still inside CIA.

00:01:01.760 That person has spoken to Michael Schellenberger, and Michael has a new exclusive that he's going to talk to us about right now.

00:01:09.840 The whistleblower says CIA director John Brennan had an almost, quote, pathological need for control over the 2016 investigation that would frame Donald Trump as a Russian puppet.

00:01:23.100 Michael's the founder of Public News on Substack and chair of politics, censorship and free speech at the University of Austin.

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00:02:24.340 Michael, welcome back. Great to have you. How are you?

00:02:26.900 Good. Good to be with you, Megan.

00:02:28.960 Okay, so walk us through it like we're little babies in the crib.

00:02:32.380 You have a whistleblower who worked on what would eventually be known as the January 17 ICA, or Intelligence Community Assessment.

00:02:43.240 And just so the audience knows, and I think they basically have a basic understanding now from our reporting,

00:02:48.160 that there was one presidential daily brief that was about to go to Obama in December of 2016 saying,

00:02:55.800 eh, the Russians, they really, they didn't succeed in interfering in any meaningful way in our election.

00:03:01.720 They did not hack voting machines, and it was going to downplay Russian interference.

00:03:05.940 And then they stopped the presses. Obama interfered and said, hold on.

00:03:11.140 And there was a memo saying, per the president's directive, and they're going in a new direction.

00:03:16.260 Lo and behold, what happened next was, we're going to do a new assessment, and we're going to see what Russian interference was.

00:03:23.560 Immediately, the media started reporting. It was huge.

00:03:26.600 They interfered in everything. They tried to help Trump.

00:03:29.440 So the answer to the homework was delivered to the media before the homework had been done.

00:03:33.680 And then when the homework was officially delivered in January of 17 to Obama, shock of all shocks,

00:03:39.460 it said what Obama wanted it to say, which was, Russia, Russia, Russia.

00:03:43.260 They wanted to help Trump.

00:03:44.380 And off we were on the collusion allegations that would dominate the Trump first term.

00:03:49.880 So now you have spoken to a whistleblower still inside the CIA who worked on that 17 ICA.

00:03:58.860 And this person is telling us what?

00:04:01.400 Well, yeah. So this person, just to put it in context, too, I mean, this was one of four analysts at the CIA.

00:04:10.120 One of and there was also two to four analysts from the National Security Agency, which, of course, does signals intelligence.

00:04:17.660 And then two other analysts from the FBI.

00:04:20.560 These were the people that were involved on that.

00:04:22.340 They were on the drafting committee to write this ICA intelligence community assessment.

00:04:27.340 And what this person said was that really, Director Brennan, CIA Director Brennan, really rode roughshod over the process.

00:04:35.900 That Brennan demanded that the ICA include the debunked Steele dossier.

00:04:42.940 This was a piece of fraudulent memos that suggested that Trump was being sex blackmailed by President Putin.

00:04:51.860 It appears that Brennan coordinated with the FBI, that the FBI insisted that this Steele memo be included in the ICA.

00:05:02.000 The analysts were misled by Brennan, thinking that, oh, he was on their side.

00:05:06.580 In fact, Brennan also wanted to keep it in the ICA.

00:05:09.780 And then, as you quoted there, this person said that Brennan had a pathological need to control this process.

00:05:17.240 Totally inappropriate.

00:05:18.420 I think it's important for people to keep in mind that, you know, we think of spying, sort of the glamorous world, the James Bond, the people, you know, the human intelligence, or maybe even some of the, you know, the cryptography and the signals.

00:05:31.240 But so much importance is on the analysis because that raw intelligence has to be interpreted.

00:05:38.700 It has to be put in context.

00:05:40.440 And, of course, it doesn't make for a very good Hollywood movie, a bunch of people just sitting around their computers.

00:05:44.060 But the directorate of analysis at the CIA is incredibly powerful because they're, in fact, more powerful in many ways than the people gathering the intelligence because they're the ones that are waiting at deciding how credible certain things.

00:05:56.180 So when that process is corrupted, and, of course, one of the most famous recent ones is that the CIA process of analysis was corrupted around the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, this is on par with that.

00:06:09.360 In fact, several people have said that this is the worst corruption of the analysis project, of the analysis process within the CIA since the weapons of mass destruction.

00:06:18.260 This person also said that they were under duress, that was their language in describing Brennan's insistence that this fraudulent steel memo, again, that was commissioned by the Hillary Clinton campaign, that they were under duress to include it.

00:06:36.040 And that this person expressed a significant amount of anger at the CIA director, Brennan.

00:06:43.500 And, of course, all of this is coming at a time, you know, we published yesterday, the day before yesterday, the attorney general, Pam Bondi, said that they were seeking to prosecute and seek indictments for a grand jury.

00:06:55.280 And it seems very likely that director Brennan, ex-director Brennan, would be one of those individuals.

00:07:00.660 Michael, can you answer why we're only learning about all of this now?

00:07:05.880 Like, why John Durham was a special prosecutor, appointed counsel, appointed to look into this.

00:07:13.260 And he was a fair guy.

00:07:15.000 He wasn't a leftist bent on destroying Trump.

00:07:17.940 To the contrary.

00:07:18.940 So why didn't he find all this stuff and indict people accordingly back in 2020?

00:07:24.600 Well, it appears that the intelligence community used the secrecy of their intelligence to hide a lot of information.

00:07:35.240 And so there's been a lot of documents that have come out.

00:07:37.560 One of the most important ones is the annex to the Durham report, which is, of course, this investigation that was done into how did the Russiagate hoax start in the first place.

00:07:47.980 That annex was quite extraordinary.

00:07:49.980 We also reported on it.

00:07:51.260 I think I spoke to you about it.

00:07:52.740 I know you reported on it, but basically what we let our show going through your report bit by bit.

00:07:57.460 You weren't available because you were on a plane, but it was great reporting.

00:07:59.840 And we walked it through with our audience about those Russian emails that had been unearthed by the Dutch and then shared with us showing Hillary Clinton's emissaries,

00:08:10.380 both pitching the campaign to take down Trump and distract from Hillary's email problems with these fake lies about Trump and many other things. 0.77

00:08:20.180 Keep going.

00:08:20.500 Yes.

00:08:21.140 Yes.

00:08:21.660 Well, and so fascinating, these pieces all start to connect.

00:08:25.040 The FBI was dismissive of that intelligence, the FBI being a very politicized organization.

00:08:31.160 The CIA analysts said that that intelligence, as you said, gathered by the Dutch spying on the Russians, that the CIA said that that intelligence was credible.

00:08:42.660 They said that it wasn't fabricated by the Russians and that those emails and other documents sort of showed that Clinton had this plan to smear Trump as a Putin puppet.

00:08:54.320 And so then you see this plan goes right from the Hillary Clinton campaign into the FBI and into the CIA.

00:09:01.900 But I think it's important to point out that those apparently there was, you know, objective, honest CIA analysis that showed that it was real intelligence.

00:09:10.180 And maybe that was part of the reason or clearly that was part of the reason.

00:09:13.200 And so the person that we interviewed made clear that the analytical the analysis was good.

00:09:20.160 The problem was Brennan was corrupting it. 0.82

00:09:22.800 But on terms of the Steele dossier, this person said that all of the analysts were in agreement that it absolutely should not be included in the intelligence assessment and that they had the support of everybody up the chain, this person said, including all of the Russia experts who just looked at it and said this is total garbage.

00:09:39.120 And so and so what you see here is, I think what we're seeing, just to kind of sum it all up, is that there had been a lot of theorizing about the nature of this conspiracy.

00:09:51.940 And I use that word deliberately. It was a secret, illegal, secret, illegal behaviors.

00:09:57.040 There's a lot of theorizing about it. It really all turned out to be correct.

00:10:00.380 And now what's happening is that the evidence is coming in to support the theories that people had been putting out there, which made sense from various behaviors that people had.

00:10:09.660 But we now know, given the documents that have come out and this really extraordinary person who has spoken to us, who has given us this inside view.

00:10:18.780 You know, I also think there's just the CIA, they really do protect their own, you know, for better or for worse.

00:10:25.560 And so it's disappointing that there were no whistleblowers from the CIA coming forward until now.

00:10:31.720 There was obviously people involved, but that's just not how they roll.

00:10:35.460 And I was only able to get this person to speak on the condition that I would not reveal their name, which, of course, I agreed to.

00:10:45.120 But I think you'll get more.

00:10:46.700 Why doesn't it come out?

00:10:47.440 Hopefully these other CIA analysts, I hope other CIA agents and analysts who are part of this now see you as a viable option to go to.

00:10:58.600 And the anonymity for now should be protected.

00:11:00.940 And hopefully they'll get to the point where they say you can say who they are, because we need we need all of them to tell us what actually happened here.

00:11:06.560 I mean, it's shocking.

00:11:07.140 And what we're getting right now from the other side.

00:11:10.340 And I love Dave Ehrenberg.

00:11:11.980 He's one of my favorite guests.

00:11:13.000 He's a he was the Palm Beach County state's attorney.

00:11:16.140 He's a Democrat.

00:11:17.260 But we had him on yesterday.

00:11:18.440 We're talking a bit about this.

00:11:19.560 And he was saying, well, you know, that stuff is that's been dismissed as Russian disinformation.

00:11:23.960 Like that that that the reason that never made it past the John Durham annex, it didn't make it into the John Durham report.

00:11:34.120 You know, those emails amongst the Hillary acolytes saying we need to come up with a Trump is a Russian asset plan to distract from our emails.

00:11:44.180 And then this guy, Leonard Bernardo, who he wrote those plans down and the and the Russians saw his emails.

00:11:53.960 They did have to hack his emails and the Dutch saw it. 0.73

00:11:56.720 Dave's point was that Durham and others feel that was Russian disinformation.

00:12:03.260 And that's why he's saying, you know, you shouldn't credit that this was all a Hillary Clinton plot that the FBI helped because the the emails themselves.

00:12:12.760 That show this guy, Leonard Bernardo, writing about Hillary's plan were faked by the Russians.

00:12:20.820 But your point is, no, that's not true.

00:12:25.160 Dave's misinformed.

00:12:26.380 It came from The New York Times, which is also reporting that.

00:12:28.640 And many on the left are now dismissing this whole thing by saying the Hillary Clinton plot piece of this is itself Russian disinformation.

00:12:37.180 Well, right.

00:12:38.000 And I think the key point here is that the CIA did not agree with that.

00:12:42.600 And the CIA, of course, being responsible for evaluating Russian intelligence.

00:12:49.020 And so the CIA being much more qualified than the FBI.

00:12:52.700 But we've seen now both with this new whistleblower interview that we published yesterday and with the Durham annex, you see the FBI behaving very badly in a very partisan way.

00:13:03.920 And we knew that the FBI had used the Durham, sorry, that had used the Steele dossier as one of the justifications for getting the FISA warrants to be able to spy on members of the Trump campaign.

00:13:16.560 Then we see the FBI dismissing this intelligence, probably didn't even have the expertise to do so, but dismissing it where the CIA said it was accurate.

00:13:24.120 And now we see the intelligence about Hillary, Hillary plotting this whole thing.

00:13:28.280 Keep going.

00:13:28.900 You know, this plan.

00:13:30.100 And look, I mean, it's really all these people are all like intelligence.

00:13:33.460 So the person that wrote the plan to smear Trump as a Putin puppet is somebody who worked at a CIA linked think tank called the Center for New American Security.

00:13:45.680 I mean, you go onto that website and there's just Julianna Smith, Julianna Smith, Julianna Smith.

00:13:50.740 You look at these people and they're just thick with people that were at the CIA or currently are at the CIA.

00:13:55.980 I mean, it says so on their bios.

00:13:57.400 Moreover, she then Biden then gave her the position as special ambassador to NATO.

00:14:03.640 And so she was a senior military intelligence person who came up with this plan.

00:14:09.280 And Megan also just point out that this playbook, you know, it's funny because the people that are dismissing this always talk about the Trump playbook.

00:14:17.780 Not sure there is one, to be honest, but the real playbook is this CIA playbook, which is the one that they had been using for years,

00:14:26.300 maybe decades in Eastern Europe, which was to smear their opponents as Putin puppets.

00:14:33.000 Many of those cases, I think a lot of those people were.

00:14:35.260 So, I mean, I'm not suggesting that they weren't Putin puppets in Eastern Europe, but that was this strategy of smearing your political opponents as Putin puppets that they did to Trump is something that was their playbook that they had been using for many years earlier.

00:14:47.260 Yeah, they did it to Trump.

00:14:49.100 We've watched them in real time do it to Tulsi Gabbard, too, both before she became DNI and since she's become DNI and has been responsible for releasing this information.

00:15:00.520 I mean, we actually are seeing once again, people suggest she's doing this to, like, help Russia somehow.

00:15:06.200 This is so farcical.

00:15:07.340 These are documents she's revealing to us that have been in place long before Tulsi Gabbard had any role in a presidential administration.

00:15:13.740 That's just not going to work.

00:15:15.760 Okay, so your reporting is that the CIA believed, and the people who ran the Russian desk, they believed that the Russians did hack Leonard Bernardo,

00:15:30.740 that they did see emails from Julianne Smith, who was a Clinton advisor at the time, saying,

00:15:36.680 we're going to do this, we are going, hey, Leonard, and Leonard's writing about it, we are going to create this lie about Trump to distract from Hillary's email scandal.

00:15:47.040 And they believed that that was real.

00:15:49.760 The FBI said, oh, no, it's not real.

00:15:51.500 But the CIA said, no, it's real. 0.59

00:15:53.300 And conversely, the experts at CIA and on the Russian desk saw the Steele dossier that said Trump went over to Russia and had some interlude with Russian prostitutes, 1.00

00:16:05.000 and now Putin had compromise on him, said, that's bullshit. 1.00

00:16:09.660 That piece is a lie. 1.00

00:16:10.900 There's no way that happened.

00:16:12.200 And yet the FBI said, no, that's real.

00:16:15.420 And not only said that's real, used it to get FISA warrants to spy on the Trump campaign.

00:16:20.380 So, I mean, it's very interesting.

00:16:22.280 And now you have a seat, an actual CIA person who's still there saying, you know, verifying all of this.

00:16:27.820 Now, having said that, take a listen, Michael, to how the media is portraying the story.

00:16:33.620 All right.

00:16:33.800 We'll kick it off with Joe Scarborough on MSNBC on Tuesday, SOT 6. 1.00

00:16:40.060 This is extraordinarily stupid. 1.00

00:16:41.940 It's extraordinarily stupid on so many counts. 1.00

00:16:44.540 If you look at the timeline, the timeline doesn't add up. 0.99

00:16:48.300 You look at the timeline here about what happened and when it happened.

00:16:52.820 Barack Obama had nothing to do with this by anybody's accounts, and especially by the Senate Republican Intelligence Committee run by Marco Rubio,

00:17:04.020 who afterwards said that it was Donald Trump's 2016 campaign that created a, quote, grave intelligence, counterintelligence threat to the United States of America.

00:17:16.200 We even found out that the two documents that supposedly, you know, fed into the Clinton conspiracy, that she was the one pushing this, actually was Russian disinformation.

00:17:27.540 So, again, they know in the Justice Department that this is all BS.

00:17:34.500 I think this is a desperate attempt to distract.

00:17:37.040 Reviving old conspiracy theories, so playing the hits, if you will, knowing that it will be eaten up on certain conservative cable channels and in the MAGA podcast sphere.

00:17:46.620 So what did that boil down to the Senate Intelligence Committee report that post dated that January 17 intelligence community assessment and the the lie that we just discussed that those that the Russian emails discussing the Hillary plot were themselves disinformation?

00:18:08.460 Yeah, and I mean, basically, everything that Joe Scarborough said there is false.

00:18:14.820 All the main points he made are false and easily disprovable.

00:18:19.000 Even on the Obama one, we asked are the person that we interviewed that's still at the CIA that that was one of the authors of the ICA about Obama.

00:18:29.960 And they said, we do not know President Obama's role in the ICA, but presume that then National Security Advisor Susan Rice, Homeland Security Advisor Lisa Monaco, and in particular, Deputy National Security Advisor Avril Haines, who was Cohen's predecessor as Brennan CIA Deputy Director, played a role in the ICA's timeline and rollout.

00:18:50.700 So this idea that sort of they've somehow proven that Obama wasn't involved is belied by the reality of how this works, which is that Obama is at the top of a hierarchy of intelligence officials, all of whom were involved in the ICA.

00:19:05.060 Now, of course, they could have kept him from it.

00:19:08.040 But this idea that somehow there's proof that Obama wasn't involved is not true.

00:19:12.340 The person just to interject, there is proof that they were going to give him a report on December 8th that said that downplayed Russian interference.

00:19:19.020 Then there was some meeting with his chief of staff that resulted in a memo saying, per the president's direction, we're going a new way.

00:19:25.940 And then came December 9th, where they started anew on the new project, which would result in that January 17 ICA.

00:19:32.780 But between December 9th and January 17, they did all the leaks to the media saying the Russians interfered and they did it to help Trump.

00:19:39.380 And we have a memo saying per the president's direction.

00:19:41.820 So it's not just supposition that Obama authorized this.

00:19:45.920 Yeah, that's right.

00:19:46.680 In fact, the very night that they so they had a huge meeting on December 9th that included Susan Rice, included the entire all of the cabinet officials for the intelligence and security agencies.

00:19:56.320 That night, multiple people, according to the New York Times and Washington Post, had went to the New York Times and Washington Post and said the Russians favored Trump, you know, and framed this early on before ever doing the ICA.

00:20:08.780 So, you know, this person we interviewed that's at the CIA said there's no reason to believe that Brennan, a political operator with many friends in senior roles in the Clinton campaign, was not either directly or indirectly engaged in or being influenced of it, regardless of his claims.

00:20:25.580 You know, this person pointed out that we know that that that they felt personally deceived by Brennan, who had suggested that, oh, it's just the FBI that wanted to keep a Steele dossier.

00:20:33.400 And in fact, we now know from Brennan's emails that Brennan wanted to do that.

00:20:37.820 Megan, I just want to add one other key thing here that I think really needs to that really people need to understand is that what was in that Durham annex, again, with intelligence that the CIA said was real, was a number of allegations, including that the that Obama was pressuring the attorney general to pressure then FBI director Comey to drop the investigations into Hillary Clinton's emails.

00:21:01.320 Right.

00:21:01.800 The other thing I want to point out is that in terms of intelligence, FBI general counsel Jim Baker, in addition to the CIA, so really senior person, the top lawyer for the FBI, was also very troubled by this intelligence, did not believe it should be dismissed.

00:21:17.000 And then was particularly concerned by the reaction to then Attorney General Lynch, Loretta Lynch, when the FBI presented her with this intelligence, her reaction was sort of calm, the normal reaction.

00:21:32.160 Just to be really clear, when the FBI went to her and said, yo, the Russians have documents that say you are pressuring Comey to not take this investigation into Hillary, quote, too far. 0.99

00:21:45.960 I mean, yes, normally, like that could be an oh shit moment for somebody. 0.98

00:21:51.580 If you were innocent, you'd probably respond by saying that's absurd. 1.00

00:21:55.860 That's completely ridiculous.

00:21:57.180 But James Baker describes her reaction, Loretta Lynch's reaction when she's told the Russians have intel that you are pressuring the FBI not to actually indict Hillary and you take it.

00:22:09.600 Yeah.

00:22:09.780 And then she was she didn't go, that's outrageous or I can't believe somebody said that.

00:22:13.840 She was very calm about it.

00:22:16.060 You almost got the perception.

00:22:17.880 And again, we can't prove this, but the sense is it was sort of that that that she was reacting that she didn't understand that this was a real problem, that she didn't seem to understand.

00:22:29.140 And she didn't seem alarmed that she was being named in this way and that she sort of thought that they were all friends or that this was just sort of they were she was being told.

00:22:39.820 It was almost like she had her role that she was playing and she didn't understand that it had gotten that it had sort of leaked out inappropriately.

00:22:49.120 Megan, then the other thing, of course, that happens right after as soon as the FBI sees this intelligence that the CIA says is real.

00:22:55.200 Well, Director Comey of the FBI does a press conference where he announces that the investigation into Hillary's emails is over.

00:23:03.280 And, you know, he said he did that without the permission of the attorney general.

00:23:07.100 It almost looks like he panics like they get this intelligence.

00:23:10.100 He's scared it's going to come out, showing that he had been under political pressure to drop the investigation.

00:23:15.880 So he rushes out because he wants to get out in front of the intelligence, cancels, announces that he's canceled the Hillary Clinton investigation.

00:23:23.460 So, I mean, this is these pieces are now in place to see that there was an effort that really this all starts with putting the kibosh on the Hillary Clinton email investigation, that that sort of effort was revealed to the U.S. intelligence community that then provoked them to accelerate the dropping of that case.

00:23:46.000 And then we also I think it's also just worth pointing out that, you know, the whole the whole Russia thing.

00:23:51.900 I mean, there's multiple motivations for it, but the Hillary Clinton campaign was very concerned that they were going to be attacked because her husband, Bill Clinton, had taken a half million dollars from Russians tied to uranium interests.

00:24:06.020 And then Hillary Clinton, the secretary of state, had approved uranium imports.

00:24:09.940 So it's sort of this classic projection, psychological projection.

00:24:15.080 Yeah.

00:24:15.560 It's a classic.

00:24:16.760 You did it.

00:24:17.240 You did it.

00:24:17.960 By the way, this is dying for a Michael Schellenberger documentary dying like this would be so much easier to understand if you just spelled it all out.

00:24:27.480 Like this is what was happening.

00:24:28.740 Dropped in the documents, dropped in the witness thoughts.

00:24:31.300 And you like you've done it before.

00:24:33.640 You've done such a good job.

00:24:34.660 You helped me so much understand environmental issues.

00:24:36.780 So we need a Michael Schellenberger documentary on this.

00:24:39.300 I have to ask you about one other media thought because it's just so galling.

00:24:43.020 Um, this is back on hold on.

00:24:46.300 This is MSNBC.

00:24:47.180 Is it not?

00:24:47.500 Or is it NBC?

00:24:48.100 It's NBC and their White House reporter, Monica Alba.

00:24:51.720 And she was on MSNBC yesterday.

00:24:53.880 Watch.

00:24:54.220 Saad 8.

00:24:54.580 A couple of weeks ago, Hallie, when really the headlines were dominated by the Jeffrey Epstein controversy and then the president was sort of trying to change the topic.

00:25:04.700 Then you have the director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, come to the White House briefing room, come to the podium and try to share some of this alleged new evidence.

00:25:14.180 Well, now you have the attorney general saying that they're going to try to take that information and try to evaluate it to see if there could be any potential criminal indictments that they would follow.

00:25:23.980 But it really does bear repeating this is looking into something for which there is no evidence to back it up.

00:25:29.620 And it's really it seems a politically motivated move to keep the focus on one of the president's clear political foes and talk about basically anything else.

00:25:39.460 That's the White House reporter for NBC News Now, which is their digital property.

00:25:46.960 That's supposed to be a straight news objective reporter, Michael, just giving us the straight news facts.

00:25:53.280 Yeah, it's incredible.

00:25:54.380 I mean, of course, the media was really part of all of this.

00:25:57.660 I mean, it was really working with the intelligence community to smear Trump as a Putin puppet.

00:26:04.500 And, you know, so they really, you know, and of course, The New York Times and other publications won Pulitzer Prizes for their disinformation.

00:26:13.060 I think it's really important to underscore that really the whole thing was aimed at spreading disinformation.

00:26:18.860 The reason they opened the investigation into Russian interference, we believe the reason that they did the ICA, we believe, was precisely so they could go leak it to the media.

00:26:31.240 In other words, once you are saying so, once you once you and, you know, that we know Comey leaked his when he briefed President Trump on Russian interference, that Comey then goes and leaks it to the media.

00:26:43.360 So they open the investigation, maybe knowing that really there's no there there.

00:26:48.280 It's not going to go anywhere.

00:26:49.420 Probably did know that.

00:26:50.600 And then they but they do it to be able to go to the media and say, oh, there's an investigation going on.

00:26:55.380 And then it's suddenly, you know, I mean, it's just game changing.

00:26:58.560 And obviously it had this just massive impact on the Trump presidency.

00:27:02.220 And there's, you know, I think a lot of evidence there was criminal activity.

00:27:06.080 I think this is obviously not going away.

00:27:08.800 And it'll be really interesting to see how long the media can maintain this fiction that there's no there there after we've had, you know, three major reports.

00:27:16.340 And now finally a whistleblower who was in in the process and has explained how fraudulent it was.

00:27:23.220 Right. Right. It's incredible.

00:27:25.280 All right. Just one quick point before I let you go.

00:27:28.500 Can we clarify Susan Miller?

00:27:30.960 We played a soundbite from Susan Miller about a week ago who was running around saying she was the author of the intelligence community assessment of January 17.

00:27:39.480 And she told NBC, we definitely had the intel to show with high probability that the specific goal of the Russians was to get Trump elected.

00:27:48.800 And as it turns out, there's some real problems with Susan Miller's allegation.

00:27:54.500 Well, and credit first to Blaze TV because they actually confronted her on it. 0.59

00:27:59.740 And she admitted that she wasn't she didn't have anything to do with the ICA.

00:28:03.940 And then our person that directly involved was directly involved in writing it said, quote, Susan Miller had no role in the ICA.

00:28:12.440 Members of Miller's analytic team participated in the ICA, but she had zero role.

00:28:17.100 So here we go. Like the people that have actually that were out there putting their name on it publicly who are outside the agency are just continuing to spread disinformation.

00:28:25.880 And in this case, again, because of Blaze TV confronting her on it, she had to walk that back.

00:28:32.720 Right on. Right on, Blaze. Right on, Michael. Great to see you. Thank you.

00:28:36.560 Great to see you.

00:28:38.220 Wow. What a story. Just absolutely incredible.

00:28:40.180 Coming up next, Charlie Kirk is here.

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00:29:50.140 Joining me now on all things related to the news, Charlie Kirk, founder and CEO of Turning Point USA and host of The Charlie Kirk Show.

00:29:58.280 Charlie, welcome back. Great to see you.

00:29:59.600 Thank you, Megan. Great to see you.

00:30:01.400 Been loving your commentary on all this.

00:30:03.000 So excited to chip in where I can.

00:30:05.660 Thank you.

00:30:06.580 All right. So I thought we were kind of done with the Sidney Sweeney controversy, but yesterday it resurrected for a couple of reasons.

00:30:13.040 Number one, Beyonce has now dropped a similar ad for Levi's without the jeans, jeans, double entendre commentary.

00:30:22.140 But it's Beyonce in a jeans ad and it is being received like she, again, is the second coming, like everything that Beyonce does and touches, because you're not allowed to criticize Beyonce.

00:30:32.560 You're only allowed to lavish praise upon her.

00:30:35.560 And so that's gotten it going again.

00:30:38.160 And now we're seeing a concerted effort on the left to turn the whole Sidney Sweeney controversy into a right wing manufactured controversy.

00:30:48.140 That there really were no leftists who were upset about the Sidney Sweeney ad.

00:30:54.140 And it's really just Republicans like Trump and J.D. Vance who are fueling a made up controversy.

00:31:01.360 That's completely dishonest.

00:31:04.300 This was entirely a left wing freak out.

00:31:07.620 And my own thought on it is having engaged in a back and forth at length with one of the Pod Save America guys last night, again, who remains a mystery to me.

00:31:16.920 The only one I know is that Tommy guy.

00:31:18.960 I don't know the other ones.

00:31:20.320 And this guy seemed genuinely hurt that I didn't know who he was after arguing with him.

00:31:25.000 And then even one of the other guys, Tommy Vitter or something, I think.

00:31:29.560 Yeah, literally nobody knows who they are.

00:31:31.560 And my final advice to this guy as we were feuding on X was, good luck.

00:31:36.640 Maybe one of these days you'll solo a show and then I'll learn your name.

00:31:40.120 But until then, you're just one of the Pod Save America guys.

00:31:43.740 Sorry.

00:31:44.300 Not everybody can do it. 0.97

00:31:45.300 I was just such a low testosterone group of complainers and whiners. 0.69

00:31:48.400 But please continue, Megan. 0.90

00:31:49.460 Sorry.

00:31:49.760 I just I find them their show unwatchable.

00:31:52.360 And they're just 100 percent.

00:31:54.100 Well, so he was one of the main people saying, no, this is a this is a right wing generated thing. 0.98

00:32:00.660 And when I called him out on what bullshit that was, he said, name one Democrat politician 0.98

00:32:06.760 who's pushed it. 0.99

00:32:08.860 OK, that's not the standard.

00:32:10.640 It was an entirely leftist.

00:32:12.300 I mean, I'll go through the list with you.

00:32:14.300 But ABC News did an entire segment on it, which is one of the morning shows.

00:32:19.420 Yeah.

00:32:19.640 I mean, here's here's just a couple of headlines.

00:32:22.060 OK, and then I'll give you the floor.

00:32:23.740 MSNBC, Sidney Sweeney's ad shows an unbridled cultural shift toward whiteness.

00:32:28.900 It's Vox, Sidney Sweeney and the unsettling legacy of the blonde bombshell.

00:32:33.340 Yahoo, Sidney Sweeney's great jeans ad slammed as Nazi propaganda.

00:32:37.660 Yahoo, Sweeney takes heat for tone deaf messaging.

00:32:41.420 Boston Globe, how American Eagle Sidney Sweeney's good jeans ad went wrong.

00:32:46.260 Slate, Sweeney has caused an uproar.

00:32:48.680 It was always going to come to this salon.

00:32:51.060 Sidney Sweeney's new campaign draws fire for racial undertones and goes on about

00:32:54.620 eugenics movements in the U.S. often promote the idea of good jeans to encourage reproduction 0.86

00:32:59.800 among white, able-bodied people and sterilization of others.

00:33:04.120 Just a couple more.

00:33:05.260 This is via The Washington Times that did a great rap of it.

00:33:07.840 USA Today reporting that many for many having a blonde, blue eyed woman talk about jeans 1.00

00:33:13.380 felt like a reference to eugenics.

00:33:15.060 Vanity Fair, the ads have been criticized by onlookers who see a sinister message lurking

00:33:18.940 beneath the pun, Entertainment Weekly fretting that the commercial for denim clothing promoted

00:33:23.520 an ideology supporting forced sterilization of marginalized groups and giving voice to

00:33:28.340 a TikTok user who said, it's all evidence of a rise of fascism in America.

00:33:32.440 The media found experts to weigh in, like college professors who said the campaign's pun

00:33:37.420 isn't just tone deaf, it's historically loaded.

00:33:40.120 The Washington Post style section writer did something on it talking about how the right

00:33:45.040 wing mocking this ad only justifies her initial alarm at seeing the ads to them and on and

00:33:53.260 on it goes.

00:33:54.800 This is a left wing freak out.

00:33:56.920 The right wing is sitting back, mocking it and laughing at it.

00:34:01.380 Yes, and also benefiting from it.

00:34:03.400 So that's that's where I'm most interested in this.

00:34:06.160 So every generation of young men have a woman or a series of women that they really look up

00:34:13.600 to or that they put posters of in their, you know, bedrooms.

00:34:17.540 That's not really a thing anymore, whether it be Kathy Ireland or Brooke Shields or Farrah

00:34:22.060 Fawcett or Pamela Anderson or Carmen Electra, you know, or Denise Richards.

00:34:30.200 I mean, this is not a new phenomenon with the men of America who want to, I would say, look

00:34:35.860 up to is a kind way of putting it, Megan.

00:34:38.700 But let's, I mean, look, they're young men and they're trying to find their place in

00:34:42.160 the world.

00:34:42.620 And it's better than being trans, okay? 1.00

00:34:46.640 It's better to have a Farrah Fawcett poster than being trans, okay? 1.00

00:34:50.720 Yes.

00:34:51.000 There's nothing wrong with that.

00:34:53.340 Yes.

00:34:53.880 I mean, come on.

00:34:54.560 This is how we're wired.

00:34:55.600 It's how God designed us.

00:34:56.760 Like, get over yourself.

00:34:57.340 So for Gen Z men who have been just force fed with androgynous, metrosexual, low testosterone, 0.94

00:35:07.160 soy fed type garbage since COVID, you know, they now have a woman that many of them not 1.00

00:35:17.400 just look up to, but they like and understandably, obviously. 0.91

00:35:22.180 And so the one woman that is kind of their generation's Farrah Fawcett or Pamela Anderson

00:35:29.500 or Carmen Electra in a, you know, rather sultry, lusty ad, probably a little too lusty for my

00:35:35.940 taste, but I don't want to be legalistic about it.

00:35:37.460 I found nothing wrong with it at first because like on the spectrum of advertisements, it

00:35:41.220 was actually not nearly as bad as some of the stuff we've seen, but fine.

00:35:44.560 But when the reaction to this has been so delightful to witness because, you know, in political

00:35:51.880 circles, we were worried this summer, are we going to start to lose young men or young

00:35:56.020 men going to start to get disaffected?

00:35:58.160 Are they starting to get a little worried about, you know, disagreements on foreign policy or,

00:36:02.800 you know, they can't afford stuff.

00:36:04.060 I want to thank the freak out against the Sidney Sweeney thing because every time you call

00:36:09.420 Sidney Sweeney a fascist, another 20 year old man registers as a Republican somewhere

00:36:14.140 across the country and it is bringing, it is bringing a whole generation as a voting

00:36:19.760 block, which is like, wait a second.

00:36:21.560 So we have a, we have a, our own like modern American tradition, our Farrah Fawcett, our

00:36:30.020 Pamela Anderson, I'm not saying me, but I'm saying that's how they're saying it.

00:36:32.880 And you're calling us a Nazi for doing that.

00:36:36.440 And for an ad that honestly, when I first saw it, I actually thought it was kind of, I

00:36:40.380 don't want to say cringe, but I don't think it was as funny.

00:36:43.780 I was like, okay, yeah, fine.

00:36:44.800 Sure.

00:36:45.080 Whatever.

00:36:45.500 It wasn't like that scintillating.

00:36:47.960 I think you'd agree, Megan, right?

00:36:49.160 It wasn't like overly witty, right?

00:36:51.680 It wouldn't have caught my notice at all.

00:36:53.820 Had it not been totally, it would have been like, fine, great.

00:36:56.000 Good for American Eagle.

00:36:57.360 Honestly, it would be more notable that it wasn't like Megan Rapinoe wearing it.

00:37:02.300 Like, okay, you know, fine.

00:37:03.360 We're more in like the traditional, you know what I mean?

00:37:06.720 Yeah.

00:37:06.940 It's like not, not Dylan Mulvaney.

00:37:08.800 It's not a rear admiral.

00:37:11.360 The guy that got woman of the year that worked for Biden or, nor the luggage that worked.

00:37:17.080 Yeah.

00:37:17.480 Rachel Levine.

00:37:18.180 Right.

00:37:18.380 So we're not there.

00:37:19.240 So I guess that's noteworthy, correct?

00:37:21.980 Yeah.

00:37:22.540 But, but it goes, there's so much here.

00:37:25.160 And I, I don't want to paint too broad of a brush because I, I don't, I try not to do that.

00:37:31.640 But an element of the backlash, Megan, and we have to be honest, is that a blonde white woman who is not full of like tattoos or disfigurement surgery is like so repulsive to them to the point where they think that it's the rise of the third Reich.

00:37:50.580 Again, I don't want to overly racialize this.

00:37:52.820 I'm not trying to say every point of criticism has that kind of sentimentality, but it definitely exists.

00:37:58.640 It definitely is an energy source here that they just find something so repulsive and offensive that a white blonde girl will be profiled in an advertisement like this, as if this is regression away from the wokening of the country. 1.00

00:38:17.560 And let's call it for what it is.

00:38:19.260 That is unadulterated, naked racism against the white women of this country. 1.00

00:38:24.840 Yeah.

00:38:25.360 And we've been dealing with it for years now and we're sick of it.

00:38:29.400 That's part of why the right wing is enjoying this so much because they're sick of this BS. 0.56

00:38:34.640 They're sick of seeing white people be erased in their roles in movies and TV shows.

00:38:40.080 And we have to reinvent all these cultural characters that are actually white and make them black now. 0.99

00:38:47.580 And on top of it, I said this the other day, there's something about Sidney Sweeney that's very refreshing because she's like the anti-Kardashian.

00:38:55.160 She's, yes, well endowed in the Chestel region, shall we say. 1.00

00:39:00.140 But she's not fake. 0.99

00:39:01.660 She doesn't have like the enormous lips and like the enormous ass that's clearly been injected in like the teeny tiny two inch waist. 1.00

00:39:10.860 That's also been surgically manipulated. 0.90

00:39:13.160 She's got a normal, you know, womanly shape, but it hasn't been enhanced to double D's to where it looks absolutely bizarre or the lip same. 0.94

00:39:22.280 And I think people appreciate that she is a beautiful girl who's just showing off her natural beauty.

00:39:29.200 And for me, this is one of the reasons why I don't think the Beyonce ad was done in reaction.

00:39:34.100 This seems to be part of a series for Beyonce and Levi's, which is a woke brand that ruined Jennifer Say's career because she questioned school closures.

00:39:43.660 Remember, she came from Levi's.

00:39:46.140 And anyway, I think it's a woke brand and they've been partnering with Beyonce for a while.

00:39:50.040 So the latest installment shows Beyonce in this jeans outfit. 1.00

00:39:54.080 And I have to say my own reaction to it was, especially on the heels of the Sweeney one, it's a fail because it doesn't have what the Sweeney ad has, which is one of the things we're reacting positively to.

00:40:06.460 Look how fake this is.

00:40:07.880 That's not Beyonce's hair. 0.99

00:40:09.480 It's not even Beyonce's hair color for the listening audience.

00:40:12.460 It's blonde platinum.

00:40:14.640 It's obviously a wig.

00:40:16.500 She does not have blonde platinum hair.

00:40:18.480 It's mostly straightened.

00:40:21.460 The breasts are enormous.

00:40:23.660 The shape is extra curvy.

00:40:26.380 She's got extreme makeup on, the big sort of glossed lips with the extra long fingernails. 0.99

00:40:35.360 And it's just, it's not even trying to be natural beauty.

00:40:38.660 And which Beyonce is, in my view, a completely artificial creation. 0.98

00:40:43.320 It's right on brand for her.

00:40:44.880 She was made by Jay-Z.

00:40:46.200 She was marketed and paid for by Jay-Z.

00:40:49.340 He's basically bought all of her awards.

00:40:52.400 People in the music industry will get bullied by this pair if they don't say about her what they want them to say or advance her award prospects in the right way.

00:41:01.900 And she's got, as you know, is typical for folks who get in a limelight this way, skin that is as thin as tissue paper.

00:41:11.000 Yours truly rolled her eyes, I did, when she entered country music with all this fanfare.

00:41:16.740 Like, we didn't have country music until Beyonce got there. 0.80

00:41:20.800 It was a mild commentary.

00:41:22.520 She's now running videotape of me before every concert to paint herself as the victim.

00:41:27.540 Poor Beyonce.

00:41:28.420 Great name ID, Megan.

00:41:30.220 Bullied by, you know, the big bad Megan Kelly.

00:41:33.640 Anyway, so I made this comment about how the ad doesn't work.

00:41:37.120 It's not natural.

00:41:37.960 She's not natural.

00:41:38.800 Everything about her is bought and paid for.

00:41:40.620 Cue more leftist meltdowns from people like the Pod Save America guys.

00:41:44.600 Look, I hope Beyonce knows that there's a lot of people that really don't care that much about her. 0.97

00:41:49.220 I am one of those people.

00:41:50.620 I talk about Beyonce if it just kind of, like, comes across the news and kind of surfaces.

00:41:55.880 But I will say, and I think it's an important point, which is, first of all, as a side note, just came to note.

00:42:03.420 Levi's is the money behind Daniel Goldman, who is probably one of the most repulsive members of Congress.

00:42:09.700 Yes.

00:42:09.900 Daniel Goldman.

00:42:10.700 And just so you know, he got all of his money from the Levi Strauss fortune.

00:42:14.600 Just a side note, this is a kind of a totally woke company and then a woke fortune that he inherited.

00:42:19.940 Anyway, but look, the Beyonce, of course, she has a right to do the jeans ad, but it just looks so forced and it just looks so manufactured. 0.90

00:42:28.420 And it goes to show, like, why did she feel the need to go do that?

00:42:34.220 Was it to try to balance out the quote unquote racial conversation?

00:42:38.180 I don't know.

00:42:38.560 We'll never know.

00:42:39.300 It's all just kind of suspect.

00:42:41.020 It's all just kind of speculation, I guess you could say.

00:42:44.980 But there is something to this.

00:42:46.640 And you mentioned this, which is that, like, Beyonce, even though she's, I guess, one of the biggest music stars ever, I find her music to be awful, unlistenable.

00:42:54.780 Same.

00:42:55.200 And just, quite honestly, just noise.

00:42:56.980 It's not music. 0.53

00:42:57.800 It's disgusting. 0.66

00:42:59.080 It's fine.

00:42:59.400 She seems like a sweet person.

00:43:00.460 I'm not saying about her person.

00:43:01.660 I know nothing about her personally.

00:43:02.620 You can comment on her personally.

00:43:04.320 I know nothing about it, but I think her music is just awful.

00:43:06.260 But she needs to get in the position of being the victim at all times.

00:43:13.400 And that is a pattern that I've seen, which is that, like, yeah, I'm being attacked.

00:43:17.120 My man, you're Beyonce.

00:43:18.220 Like, you're kind of a big deal.

00:43:20.000 Like, what do you, somehow I am under assault.

00:43:22.340 And she did this kind of shtick, remember, during the Kamala Harris campaign, where she's like, yeah, our rights are under attack.

00:43:29.060 Your rights are not under attack, Beyonce.

00:43:31.200 As you come, parachute in, charge $10 million, give a speech, left all of your fans super disappointed and mad at you that you didn't perform.

00:43:40.140 And the speech wasn't even good.

00:43:41.900 It was in Houston.

00:43:42.720 It was all about, you know, like, women's autonomy or whatever BS that is. 0.98

00:43:46.680 And so, look, I think what we're seeing, though, is Gen Z especially, they want to return to authenticity.

00:43:53.520 They want to return to real.

00:43:55.200 They do not want artificial.

00:43:56.940 They do not want synthetic.

00:43:58.700 You are much better equipped to make, you know, to charge the indictment against Beyonce being fake.

00:44:03.720 I will say, though, that the Sidney Sweeney appeal is partially what you're saying completely, Megan.

00:44:09.100 But to go even deeper, young men are, like, enough with the over-plastic presentation of women. 1.00

00:44:17.900 There's something about how Sidney Sweeney presents herself where a lot of these young men are like, well, kind of remember a girl like that in high school.

00:44:24.700 Or I could kind of, it's more realistic.

00:44:28.240 It's more almost attainable.

00:44:30.880 If I dare, it's not this kind of like, okay, I'm never going to be able to meet a Kardashian.

00:44:36.540 That's just not going to happen.

00:44:37.680 But for a lot of young men, the way they tell me, I say, what is the appeal of Sidney Sweeney, betide the obvious, you know, visual aesthetics?

00:44:44.620 They say, you understand, is that she's real.

00:44:47.480 She hasn't had, like, overwork done.

00:44:49.200 She hasn't been butchered into the place where, like, again, the Kardashian gang is, you know, they have a whole team of people that are constantly sculpting them.

00:44:58.540 Well, and Beyonce's in that same category.

00:45:00.620 Beyonce's in that category.

00:45:01.680 J-Lo's in that category.

00:45:02.280 You're more equipped to say that.

00:45:03.420 Lauren Sanchez is in that category. 0.60

00:45:04.840 Yeah.

00:45:05.120 Oh, I will say it.

00:45:05.880 And I'll show it to you.

00:45:06.580 Look at Beyonce in this ad. 1.00

00:45:07.820 Okay, for Levi's.

00:45:08.720 Check this out.

00:45:09.360 Saw three.

00:45:14.760 Enormous.

00:45:15.660 Enormous bottom.

00:45:16.620 Two-inch waist is how it opens up. 1.00

00:45:18.220 Close-up of the rear end.

00:45:28.900 Snap a picture, bring it on.

00:45:33.080 Playing pool.

00:45:35.580 No, you wish you were my Levi's jeans.

00:45:39.940 When it's up there, much more.

00:45:40.780 She wins pool, and the man she's playing against has to lower his pants. 1.00

00:45:45.440 He has to be humiliated.

00:45:47.180 Then she gets on a motorcycle and drives away.

00:45:49.280 See, that's the leftist ideal.

00:45:50.680 I think it was a white man, too. 0.99

00:45:50.920 You humiliate the man, a white man. 0.99

00:45:52.760 Yes, you have to humiliate. 1.00

00:45:54.360 White men, so much the better. 1.00

00:45:57.660 There's a controversial take, so I'll do my best trying to navigate it. 0.98

00:46:01.580 But you saw in that advertisement a heavy focus on, you know, the caboose or the derriere.

00:46:06.900 And young men see something very different in Sidney Sweeney, which one could argue is a return to a different aesthetic.

00:46:16.800 I'm not saying it's better or worse, but it's different.

00:46:20.440 And because, again, that advertisement, some people like that.

00:46:24.500 I'm like, okay, that's a little much for me.

00:46:26.160 I don't know why you're kind of like, you know, putting that right in my face.

00:46:30.740 Super close up, repeatedly on the bottom.

00:46:32.900 Super close.

00:46:33.560 It's like a little bit too much.

00:46:34.860 But there is a move away from that sort of emphasis towards a different one, which Sidney Sweeney, you can see the contrast there.

00:46:49.660 Again, I'm not like Sidney Sweeney's biggest fan.

00:46:51.760 I don't hate her.

00:46:52.260 Like, whatever.

00:46:52.740 I actually have never talked about her.

00:46:54.480 I didn't really know much about her.

00:46:56.020 And she has her own career.

00:46:57.400 She's a registered Republican.

00:46:58.300 Good for her.

00:46:59.100 But it is a very interesting cultural moment where it's like, if you put that up on screen,

00:47:03.720 it's like, which way Western man, right?

00:47:06.220 The fake victim, you know, abortion screaming, left wing, manufactured, bad music, fake hair, lots of work done, your own words.

00:47:18.820 Or Sidney Sweeney, who's just a girl from like rural Washington who became an actress.

00:47:24.480 I don't even know if she's a good actress or not.

00:47:26.060 People could be a good judge of that.

00:47:27.140 I don't know.

00:47:27.700 I don't haven't seen her work, but she's kind of an all-American girl that hasn't necessarily gone through the sort of the sort of design by committee.

00:47:41.280 Exactly.

00:47:42.220 Exactly.

00:47:43.180 Yeah, that's exactly.

00:47:44.220 That's what people are responding so well to.

00:47:45.780 I will say a word in defense of fake hair. 0.88

00:47:47.780 It's very nice.

00:47:48.920 If you if you don't have naturally thick hair, it's nice to get a few extra pieces in there.

00:47:52.220 But honestly, what we've done in our society is we've gone so far the opposite way.

00:47:58.320 I mean, like, truly, thanks to the Kardashians.

00:48:00.120 It's not all their fault, but they're chiefly responsible. 0.99

00:48:03.180 This new sort of quote unquote ideal of women has got like the triple G breasts outsized only by the fake asses, which are as wide as Montana. 1.00

00:48:14.220 And then in the middle has to be like literally a 10 inch waist, which is not attainable by any natural human without massive surgery, which, by the way, is potentially dangerous. 0.93

00:48:24.520 And on top of that, lips that are enormous, that basically go up to your nose and down to your chin and then get smushed with it.

00:48:33.060 I don't know.

00:48:34.000 I don't get it.

00:48:34.540 It's like I don't do much is is obviously an affront to our senses.

00:48:40.200 But why do the women think the injected lips is attractive? 1.00

00:48:44.660 I want to know the argument.

00:48:47.260 No, I'm not saying that always says like he doesn't mind.

00:48:50.880 I get Botox and I'm very open about that.

00:48:52.400 He's like, that doesn't bother me at all.

00:48:53.900 Please don't ever touch your lips.

00:48:55.380 That looks so weird.

00:48:56.980 The it's very strange.

00:48:58.140 The lips thing, it's and it's it's weird.

00:49:01.280 It's it's also just it's so clear it's fake.

00:49:06.140 And I don't know, at least from a male perspective, when I see it, again, very sweet people, pleasant.

00:49:12.480 It's not an indictment of the character, but just from the physical presentation.

00:49:17.080 And maybe, Megan, I'm wrong.

00:49:18.020 You could just like throw me down here and be like, nope, it's it's great.

00:49:22.540 Maybe it's kind of like one of those things, like in Seinfeld, where like women care about 1.00

00:49:27.280 men's eyebrows and like we never cared about it.

00:49:29.600 Like women care about other women's lips. 1.00

00:49:33.200 It's I think, look, there are some women who don't have any lips. 1.00

00:49:37.060 You know, there really are.

00:49:37.960 Like I remember some guys to Doug Llewellyn, who did the outside interviews to Judge Wapner's

00:49:44.200 People's Court.

00:49:45.040 Now I'm going back, but he had no lips.

00:49:47.060 What happened to Doug Llewellyn's lips?

00:49:48.600 I could see getting it if you had no lips.

00:49:50.660 I really can.

00:49:51.260 And some women get lip injections. 1.00

00:49:53.180 I know somebody in particular who gets them.

00:49:55.460 She looks great.

00:49:56.080 You would never be able to tell that you that she was having her lips injected.

00:49:58.720 So whatever.

00:49:59.560 I don't judge people for that.

00:50:00.860 It's the Mr. Potato Head approach to beauty that I recoil in response to.

00:50:07.280 They go too far.

00:50:08.420 Like the Kardashians, the lips are bigger than eyes on their faces.

00:50:12.580 They're so huge.

00:50:14.000 It's not.

00:50:14.600 Lauren Sanchez used to be a beautiful woman when she was younger. 1.00

00:50:18.580 She looked natural.

00:50:19.480 She was a natural beauty. 1.00

00:50:20.600 She she's ruining her look by all this fake artificial shit she's having pumped into her 1.00

00:50:26.180 face and body. 1.00

00:50:27.060 It's unnecessary.

00:50:27.820 It's almost like a sickness.

00:50:28.660 I mean, help me understand the psychology, because for men, we find that to be so unattractive,

00:50:34.480 so wrong.

00:50:36.160 Is it for other women? 0.99

00:50:37.500 Is it a self-confidence thing?

00:50:40.040 I think it's a self-confidence thing.

00:50:41.700 And I think some women get addicted to plastic surgery. 1.00

00:50:43.920 You know, they have one thing done and they think more is more.

00:50:47.420 And like and I think aging women tend to like abuse it. 1.00

00:50:50.840 They think, oh, I need more to keep looking young. 0.88

00:50:53.300 And, you know, I've got to like make my breasts huge or my bottom huge in order to stay a sexual 1.00

00:51:00.240 like kitten and attractive to men. 0.97

00:51:03.700 It's like an overcompensation.

00:51:05.380 And I think they don't realize less is more like who's in the headlines right now in a

00:51:09.540 very positive way.

00:51:11.080 Pamela Anderson, her newfound relationship with Liam Neeson.

00:51:15.360 They're clearly falling in love and it's totally charming.

00:51:19.060 And she's not wearing makeup anymore or very, very little makeup anymore.

00:51:23.380 She looks great.

00:51:24.400 We all know Pamela Anderson can look like a 20 on a scale of one to 10 when she dons, 1.00

00:51:29.640 you know, all her A-game makeup and all that stuff.

00:51:32.180 But it's really refreshing to see her lean into just like this is me now thing.

00:51:36.840 And she's 58. 0.70

00:51:38.060 He's totally enamored with her.

00:51:39.860 You can see it in the interviews like that.

00:51:42.080 Look, I'm all for makeup and hair.

00:51:44.520 Obviously, that's true.

00:51:45.480 But if you could see me in my day life, I don't walk around like this.

00:51:48.320 I put this armor on to go on television and go on screen.

00:51:52.180 But my real life, my hair is in a ponytail and I really don't wear that much makeup.

00:51:55.620 I wear some.

00:51:56.880 In any event, I think we've had it.

00:51:58.480 And I think that's part of the Sidney Sweeney magic of this ad.

00:52:02.140 And it's part of the recoiling that I had when I saw the Beyonce response.

00:52:06.020 One word on Beyonce.

00:52:07.780 Okay, so she's all about the women. 1.00

00:52:09.180 In the Kamala Harris campaign, she said it.

00:52:11.480 In the speech, she said it.

00:52:13.120 And even Levi's in their statement, which is completely anodyne about this ad, says it.

00:52:19.600 They say, oh, we're marketing a final celebration of a partnership that has explored reinvention

00:52:26.280 and reinterpretation at every turn.

00:52:28.480 What?

00:52:29.280 The campaign represents a new level and scale of collaboration that has put women at the center 0.65

00:52:34.800 of the narrative and set in motion a new iconic chapter in Levi's history that continues to

00:52:41.940 reaffirm the brand's place at the center of culture.

00:52:44.900 My note reads, did Kamala Harris write this?

00:52:48.400 It's so empty and rambling, but it's all about centering women. 1.00

00:52:53.300 So Beyonce wants to center women. 1.00

00:52:55.340 Where was she in the centering women when P. Diddy was on trial? 1.00

00:52:59.360 Her good friend and the good friend of her husband.

00:53:02.420 I don't remember her speaking out about his serial abuse of women he was supposed to love.

00:53:08.560 She didn't say anything.

00:53:10.260 Why isn't P. Diddy in the video montage before her concert, Charlie, if she's all about girl

00:53:16.460 power?

00:53:17.500 Well, because you're a perfect villain, because we know why you're an outspoken, successful,

00:53:23.700 I would say conservative. 0.98

00:53:25.240 I don't want to put words in your mouth, but conservative, you know, white woman. 1.00

00:53:31.320 And that's kind of what she's trying to put back, push back against.

00:53:35.420 And again, I don't know what's in Beyonce's heart.

00:53:38.240 All I know that how she acts and how she speaks and definitely the kind of worldview she represents

00:53:45.680 and that she plays into is kind of a enough whitey, like enough of you guys.

00:53:52.800 Yep.

00:53:53.460 And sit down.

00:53:54.700 Again, totally sit down.

00:53:56.420 Like, you guys are the problem.

00:53:57.860 Your ancestors owned slaves. 0.84

00:53:59.820 Like, enough.

00:54:01.100 And yeah, I think that they've created a massive, by the way, multiracial backlash. 0.85

00:54:06.640 Hispanics don't like this. 1.00

00:54:07.940 Asians don't like this. 0.99

00:54:09.160 It's not just about white people that don't like this. 0.92

00:54:11.320 But to compare a Sidney Sweeney ad for 20 minutes to gobbles and Hitler and eugenics, I mean, that's really dark stuff.

00:54:22.880 And then for them to gaslight us, that, you know, that little dwarf on Pod Save America that you were getting in a debate with, he was like, oh, no one was saying it.

00:54:34.220 Hold on.

00:54:35.620 The ABC News Good Morning America platformed a, quote unquote, subject matter expert for a multi, like a pretty long interview by Morning Showtime.

00:54:47.280 You know, Morning Showtime is precious, Megan, and she's going on about how this is eugenics and a return to Nazism. 0.58

00:54:53.960 And then they gaslight us against it for even saying that this became a major issue.

00:54:59.520 And so, look.

00:55:00.320 By the way, we have some of that, Charlie.

00:55:01.620 Let me play it.

00:55:02.460 Please.

00:55:02.800 No, let's show because they're trying.

00:55:04.300 They're literally trying to gaslight us in real time.

00:55:07.140 Yeah, here it is.

00:55:07.760 Now, in one ad, the blonde-haired, blue-eyed actress talks about genes as in DNA being passed down from her parents.

00:55:15.160 The play on words is being compared to Nazi propaganda with racial undertones.

00:55:22.660 The pun, good genes, activates troubling historical associations for this country.

00:55:30.280 The American eugenics movement in its prime between, like, 1900 and 1940 weaponized the idea of good genes just to justify white supremacism.

00:55:43.140 Unbelievable.

00:55:43.860 And, Charlie, let me give you one more.

00:55:45.040 It's not just the little man over at Pod Save.

00:55:49.260 Rolling Stone.

00:55:50.360 Rolling Stone magazine out with a new piece.

00:55:52.620 Fox News blitzes airwaves with Sydney Sweeney coverage.

00:55:55.320 It's Fox's fault.

00:55:56.160 They say this is actually not crybaby liberals who are hopelessly obsessing over the euphoria actors.

00:56:03.220 That's Sydney Sweeney.

00:56:03.900 She was in that show.

00:56:04.940 Jeans.

00:56:06.320 It's Republicans and Fox News.

00:56:09.680 Then they go through and counted the number of times Fox News mentioned Sweeney, and then they make the same point as the little man over at Pod Save.

00:56:17.260 No prominent Democratic lawmakers have weighed in on the situation.

00:56:23.080 That's the new test, you see.

00:56:24.800 Notwithstanding all that whole laundry list I went through, the test is whether we've seen, I guess, Joe Biden or the auto pen say something about it.

00:56:33.960 Or whether Chuck Schumer gave a Senate floor speech about the Sydney Sweeney ad.

00:56:39.540 You know, whether or not Hakeem Jeffries introduces a motion.

00:56:43.980 Like, that's the threshold of whether or not this is a big deal or not.

00:56:47.540 Sorry, we actually understand culture, guys.

00:56:50.640 And again, just I want to just go back to one part, though.

00:56:53.160 In that ABC News clip, do you know that the first couple of words were so disgusting?

00:56:58.280 The blonde-haired, blue-eyed actress, as if, like, they're trying to set you up that, like, oh, this is, like, Pseudone.

00:57:06.840 Do you notice that in the copy script?

00:57:08.940 I just, I've heard that.

00:57:10.880 I've heard that clip multiple times.

00:57:12.540 I didn't catch it till now.

00:57:13.900 Where someone put that in their teleprompter.

00:57:16.140 Someone wrote that down for them to read.

00:57:18.480 The blonde-haired, blue-eyed actress.

00:57:21.100 Okay, what is the relevance of that exactly?

00:57:23.900 So if it was, you know, a Hispanic person that says, I had good genes, you wouldn't. 1.00

00:57:27.820 Okay, fine.

00:57:28.800 But no, because of that, you're trying to shame an entire part of the American population, which happens to be the majority of the country, by the way, still, into, you can't talk about having any sort of good genetics or any sort of good ancestry.

00:57:43.760 And, boy, that's dark stuff.

00:57:45.560 I mean, if you want to talk about who's actually pushing forward pseudo, like, race politics, it's them, not us.

00:57:52.680 We don't look at that ad and think of race at all.

00:57:55.880 Like, okay, yeah, good genes.

00:57:57.980 If anything, you could think of, like, it's a sexualization thing, okay?

00:58:02.020 Yes.

00:58:02.380 Like, okay, she's got good genes.

00:58:02.780 I mean, honestly, my first reaction was they're talking about her breasts.

00:58:05.960 And, yes, they're right.

00:58:06.840 A hundred percent, of course.

00:58:08.300 It's like she's got good genes because, you know, she doesn't have to go to plastic surgery where a lot of women would have to, okay? 0.99

00:58:17.540 Yeah, she's got a rocket body. 1.00

00:58:18.280 That would be, like, exactly.

00:58:21.200 That was my initial reaction when I saw it.

00:58:22.880 I was like, okay, next thing.

00:58:24.860 I got a busy day.

00:58:26.140 But they look at that and they immediately think Third Reich, Hitler, not only are these dark people, they are so – their worldview that they process everything through, the matrix that they put all their information through is so broken and dangerous, Megan, that this is why I'm so glad Trump won, 0.94

00:58:51.380 is that you can't have people running your society that immediately think everything goes back to Hitler and everything goes back to Nazism.

00:59:00.500 It's destructive.

00:59:01.620 It's wrong.

00:59:02.360 And then it also just – they don't care about this, but it cheapens the word Nazi if we ever need to use it, Megan, right?

00:59:09.980 Yes, I know.

00:59:10.300 If we ever see – like, for example, there's some of this repulsive Jew hate that we see sometimes on social media. 0.94

00:59:15.460 I hate it. 0.99

00:59:16.120 You hate it.

00:59:17.000 But then if you and I want to call that person a Nazi, it doesn't mean anything.

00:59:20.480 It has no currency because they're like, oh, am I a Nazi like Sidney Sweeney?

00:59:25.560 And boom, there's no zing.

00:59:29.660 What they have done is they have created yet another subcategory.

00:59:34.100 Racist means nothing anymore, and now Nazi means nothing anymore.

00:59:38.720 When people call me a Nazi, and then they call me – so they have diluted the potency of the word that we can no longer use it, rarely where appropriate. 0.97

00:59:48.060 And, no, these are sick people, and I don't put that lightly.

00:59:52.400 If you think that ad had anything to do with eugenics or the Third Reich, there's something deeply wrong and troubling with you. 0.96

00:59:58.800 They've done it with misogyny.

01:00:00.620 They've done it with the word bigot, if you say anything about the trans community, too.

01:00:04.020 I mean, there's a whole list of words that used to be powerful, and they've ruined them.

01:00:08.340 They've taken away their sting because they've used them so indiscriminately.

01:00:11.400 All right, now, you raise the Jewish issue, and this is actually really important to me.

01:00:17.220 I really want to discuss this with you because you and I are both supporters of Israel and have defended Israel since the beginning of this conflict

01:00:25.040 and spoken out about the anti-Semitism that has erupted on these college campuses many, many, many, many times.

01:00:32.200 And something's happening, though, with this whole debate that is really bothering me, and I wonder if you're feeling it, too.

01:00:37.820 So, I mean, I genuinely believe you'd be hard-pressed to find somebody in the public eye who's been as outspoken a defender of not every move Israel's taken in the war,

01:00:50.100 but of Israel's right to defend itself and of the just backward awfulness that we've been seeing on college campuses 0.99

01:00:57.780 and the backlash against American Jews than yours truly.

01:01:00.600 I mean, I have been at the pointy end of the spear on this.

01:01:03.480 I completely agree with that.

01:01:05.100 And it was all heartfelt, and it remains heartfelt.

01:01:09.020 However, however, my contention here is that some in the pro-Israel camp are so knee-jerk about calling you anti-Semitic

01:01:22.380 or getting deeply offended if you say anything that doesn't align with their narrative that it undermines their own cause.

01:01:30.800 And I have to tell you, I find it very irritating because I do feel like some of us have earned the right to have some credibility on the subject of Israel 1.00

01:01:41.180 and don't want to be called those names when we have some mild pushback on some of the overreaches,

01:01:48.720 whether it's, you know, whether they're winning or losing the propaganda war right now.

01:01:53.360 And my contention is they've begun to lose it.

01:01:56.080 And I realize it's propaganda coming at us from Hamas, but their numbers have turned here in America.

01:02:01.920 They've turned not so much with Republicans, a little bit with Republicans, but completely with the Democrat Party and with independents.

01:02:08.600 They have shifted mightily from at least double-digit highs to single-digit lows now when it comes to approval.

01:02:16.480 And also, with respect to you and I speculated about this at the Turning Point event,

01:02:22.020 whether the possibility of Jeffrey Epstein possibly being a Mossad agent or asset or affiliated with,

01:02:29.520 that's been turned around on me, too, to you must be anti-Semitic. 0.96

01:02:33.400 What the hell? 1.00

01:02:34.680 That's such bullshit. 1.00

01:02:35.940 The same people who say, you can criticize Israel, that's fine, we won't call you anti-Semitic if you criticize Israel, 1.00

01:02:43.520 turn around immediately and say, you're anti-Semitic for even raising that.

01:02:47.660 I completely reject that.

01:02:49.320 And I raise this as a pushback against my friends on that particular strain of the aisle to watch it.

01:02:57.660 Because you don't want to alienate people who are openly your friends by going nuts in your crackdowns on mild pushback on anything related to Israel.

01:03:08.380 Now you take it.

01:03:08.880 I'm so glad you brought this up, and I would second that.

01:03:12.840 Megan, I think I have a bulletproof resume showing my defense of Israel, both on campus, on social media,

01:03:20.780 to great, you know, let's just say mockery and scorn at times, because I believe it, right?

01:03:26.960 I believe in the scriptural land rights given to Israel.

01:03:31.640 I believe in fulfillment of prophecy.

01:03:34.420 And, again, I'm not a theologian, but I'm a Christian.

01:03:37.160 My life was changed in Israel.

01:03:39.340 The spiritual energy is so amazing there.

01:03:41.640 I want them to win.

01:03:43.580 I've said that repeatedly.

01:03:45.740 And, however, Megan, you're hitting on something very potent and important.

01:03:49.520 Now let me first say, I don't want to judge an entire group,

01:03:52.040 because there's been many people in the prayer Israel world that have been very sweet, very kind, very nuanced, very, Charlie,

01:03:58.040 you know, you're with us, you don't have to agree all the time.

01:04:00.280 However, and I will say this, the behavior by a lot, both privately and publicly,

01:04:07.760 are pushing people like you and me away.

01:04:10.080 Not like we're going to be pro-Hamas, not like we're going to, but we're like, honestly,

01:04:14.920 the way you are treating me is so repulsive.

01:04:17.840 I have text messages, Megan, calling me an anti-Semite.

01:04:21.300 I am learning biblical Hebrew and writing a book on the Shabbat.

01:04:25.000 I honor the Shabbat, literally the Jewish Sabbath.

01:04:28.260 I visit Israel and fight for it.

01:04:29.840 And there's another article out in the Times of Israel today.

01:04:32.240 I could read it on air.

01:04:33.140 I was just reading before I got on.

01:04:34.580 Charlie, what are you doing?

01:04:36.160 Like, why are you, what am I doing?

01:04:38.980 I'm sorry.

01:04:39.740 Like, let's just take a step back here.

01:04:41.480 Like, I'm an American citizen.

01:04:44.320 Yes, I want Israel to win.

01:04:47.160 Yes, I'm a Christian.

01:04:48.720 But like, some of the mess, and you saw, I mean, you've seen how I've been treated, Megan, by some, not all, by some.

01:04:53.980 No, it's very irritating.

01:04:55.780 It's almost as if you—

01:04:57.360 They were coming after you, after a turning point, for among other things, that you had Dave Smith there.

01:05:01.960 Dave Smith is allowed to criticize Israel.

01:05:04.920 You had both sides.

01:05:05.940 The Israeli side was overrepresented.

01:05:07.820 You're not allowed to, though.

01:05:08.440 No, you're not allowed to.

01:05:09.740 It's even worse than that.

01:05:10.580 Again, I just want to repeat for the fifth time, I love Israel.

01:05:13.640 I want Israel to win.

01:05:14.820 But my moral character is now being put into question, Megan.

01:05:19.160 Not my decisions.

01:05:21.180 Not like, hey, are you doing this? 0.99

01:05:22.560 Is it smart or is it dumb? 0.87

01:05:24.000 But no, I am a bad person if I do this. 0.98

01:05:28.320 And it's a—I could go—I mean, you saw it, Megan.

01:05:30.400 It was trending on Twitter, thousands of tweets and text messages.

01:05:33.300 And if I were to be charitable and generous, I will say, the people that are attacking me are in a hyper-paranoid state because they're at war, and war tends to make things black and white, and you're a hammer looking for a nail.

01:05:47.600 So I'm trying to be charitable, Megan.

01:05:49.500 Literally, I'm trying to cut as much slack as I can, right?

01:05:52.680 Like, okay, what would it be like if all of a sudden I'm starting to see a pattern of behavior similar to what my grandparents saw in 1930s Germany online?

01:06:00.940 How would I behave?

01:06:01.680 So that's like my charitable kind of overcompensation spirit. 0.98

01:06:06.480 At the same time, I'm like, but you're—it's not defensible to be dumb, right? 0.97

01:06:12.500 Yeah, and it's offensive. 0.94

01:06:13.920 It's offensive to those of us who have been out there defending them in many instances against critics on our own side.

01:06:21.920 And now you have a couple of comments like, well, what about this?

01:06:24.520 Well, has it gone on too long?

01:06:26.460 Like, is it time to wrap it up?

01:06:28.040 And the thing about Epstein is just so bizarre.

01:06:29.900 I don't know who he was an agent for.

01:06:31.220 It might have been Israel or an asset, or it might have been nobody.

01:06:33.940 But we're allowed to speculate about that.

01:06:36.020 It's like there's some rule.

01:06:37.360 You can't go there when it comes to Israel.

01:06:40.160 Well, you and I believe that we're Americans and Americans first, period.

01:06:44.160 End of story.

01:06:44.700 We are citizens of this nation, okay?

01:06:46.760 And Israel, we have funded, we have supported, and they're up against a sea of Islamic totalitarianism, and we should be cheering for them, right? 1.00

01:06:57.480 Because they're up against barbarians and monsters, and we want them to win.

01:07:02.380 However, here is Megyn Kelly and Charlie Kirk combined, probably 30 million social media followers, like pretty, right?

01:07:10.260 And you and I have been holding this down, and you probably get the negative, oh, you're just shilling for Israel, whatever.

01:07:15.500 I'm like, okay, I'm going to do what's right regardless of the feedback, right?

01:07:18.320 But then all of a sudden, like I host a person that I moderate the debate of, mind you, right?

01:07:26.980 And I give equal time to Josh Hammer, equal time to a pro-Israel advocate, and my moral character is being put into question.

01:07:36.720 And so I just – I think it's a hyper-paranoid, like we're just going to try to – we're going to just stamp out everything type of practice.

01:07:47.280 But it goes to the point where if, for example, if I – I have less ability sometimes online to criticize the Israeli government about backlash than actual Israelis do.

01:07:59.420 And that's really, really weird, isn't it, Megyn?

01:08:02.680 That's not right.

01:08:03.620 It's so wrong-headed.

01:08:05.280 I'll tell you, this – for me – so I got some blowback after saying Mossad possibilities with Epstein, a comment behind which I stand.

01:08:13.600 I mean, I realize – and I've, of course, reported what Alan Dershowitz has said as his lawyer.

01:08:16.960 He says, I think he would have told me.

01:08:18.360 He didn't say he had any of those connections.

01:08:19.980 I hear all that.

01:08:20.920 That doesn't mean it's not true.

01:08:22.420 I think all these things should be explored.

01:08:24.180 It's one of the many things that should be explored around Epstein.

01:08:26.780 But saying that and also saying he might be a U.S. asset, et cetera, doesn't make you anti-Semitic. 0.99

01:08:33.500 That's fucking crazy. 0.98

01:08:35.360 And then we get to last week I go on Piers Morgan, right? 0.99

01:08:40.200 So I go on Piers Morgan last week.

01:08:42.340 And I don't talk about Israel a lot on this show.

01:08:44.520 I just – like covering the day-to-day of a conflict like this is not my thing.

01:08:48.560 It's not what we do here at the Megyn Kelly show.

01:08:51.180 We haven't done it for Ukraine. 0.78

01:08:52.180 We haven't done it for Israel. 0.86

01:08:53.060 We haven't done it for a lot of conflicts.

01:08:54.120 But we'll talk about it when big things happen.

01:08:56.400 So Piers talks about it a lot.

01:08:58.860 Piers asked me – it was a very interesting kind of culture study.

01:09:01.180 So he asked me about the photos of the starving children out of Gaza.

01:09:06.900 And I said a couple of things, both of which got a fair amount of pickup.

01:09:11.980 All right.

01:09:12.220 So first, this is what I said about the photos.

01:09:14.700 Listen to Sat 10.

01:09:17.160 Well, I'm always reluctant to put too much stock in the images coming out of Gaza, that phrase,

01:09:21.540 because they're manipulated and they're masters of propaganda and they're fine having their own

01:09:24.860 children starve just as long as they can put them on camera and show them off to the world.

01:09:28.120 That's Hamas. 0.97

01:09:28.880 And frankly, it's a lot of Palestinians. 0.68

01:09:30.560 So I'm very skeptical of taking those images at face value and saying it's Israel's fault.

01:09:35.760 Okay.

01:09:36.320 So that clip gets circulated a million times by my Israeli friends and my Jewish friends online.

01:09:42.660 Like, go, Megan.

01:09:43.320 Yeah.

01:09:43.620 Okay, great.

01:09:44.260 Cool, cool, cool.

01:09:44.780 Yeah, she's right on.

01:09:45.520 Look at her.

01:09:46.100 You know, speak truth to Piers.

01:09:47.960 And then Piers released as a separate clip my follow-up to that comment.

01:09:53.960 Okay.

01:09:54.600 And here's that.

01:09:55.520 Not a lot of nuance, Megan.

01:09:56.860 It's only tribalism.

01:09:57.980 That's right.

01:09:59.260 So here's Sot 11.

01:10:01.520 Israel, whether it realizes it or not, has made itself the villain of the world in letting 1.00

01:10:09.180 this thing go on so long.

01:10:10.640 They have lost support amongst their dearest friends.

01:10:14.120 And even the entire Democrat Party here in the United States has turned against them.

01:10:18.440 And they're losing Republicans by the day here in America, which is their most important ally.

01:10:23.260 So whether the fight continues to be just or not is almost irrelevant.

01:10:27.300 As Trump said when he was running this time last year, not yet elected, time to wrap it up.

01:10:32.540 And that's how I feel, too.

01:10:33.720 And I've given Israel a long berth. 0.95

01:10:35.780 I fully understand, as an American who was attacked on 9-11.

01:10:39.380 My country was that, you know, when you attack the United States and you kill thousands of our citizens,

01:10:45.160 and Israel was in this position on 10-7, it's fine to respond.

01:10:48.420 And it doesn't have to be proportionate.

01:10:49.860 Whoever said it has to be proportionate.

01:10:51.180 But what Israel is doing now is losing its standing with the rest of the world.

01:10:56.360 It's starting to lose, too, even with its closest friends, its moral reputation, its moral high ground.

01:11:02.540 And as Trump said a year ago, time to wrap it up.

01:11:07.420 Cue the 25 text messages from people I know, like friends who are pro-Israel.

01:11:15.540 Like, I'm so sad that you've left us.

01:11:17.880 I'm so sad.

01:11:18.600 Let's debate it.

01:11:19.520 You know, many Jewish advocates saying, let me come on your show and we'll debate.

01:11:23.640 There's nothing to debate.

01:11:24.800 I'm on Israel's side.

01:11:26.280 Just stop.

01:11:27.480 Me observing that you're losing the propaganda war and that this has gone on for about two years now.

01:11:33.720 And look, I mean, I pulled the stats.

01:11:35.200 Support for Israel's military action in Gaza by Party ID.

01:11:38.740 GOP in June of 2024, 76%.

01:11:41.020 Now 71, so they lost 5%.

01:11:43.040 Dems in October of 2023, 36%.

01:11:46.520 Now it's at 8.

01:11:47.600 Independence, October of 2023, it was 47%.

01:11:50.600 Now it's 25%.

01:11:52.820 You go under 35, you have almost zero support.

01:11:56.300 Across the United States, your closest ally.

01:11:58.820 I see what's happening and it's my job to comment honestly on it.

01:12:03.120 Totally.

01:12:03.500 But I am sick of being lectured on like, you have to see it exactly as we see it and support everything or you're against us.

01:12:11.340 So this is so important, Megan.

01:12:14.580 And again, I don't want, not every, you cannot say everyone in the pro is your role and I don't say it acts that way.

01:12:20.040 But I got texts about you, Megan, saying, why is Megan like doing the bidding of Hamas?

01:12:27.280 I was like, what are you talking about?

01:12:28.560 Megan's the best.

01:12:29.460 Like what, she's amazing.

01:12:31.660 And I said, why are you texting me about Megan?

01:12:34.320 And I, at that point, and so this is what they don't understand.

01:12:38.080 You and I, Megan, and Tucker is in the same category and they've tried to go after Tucker. 0.99

01:12:42.760 Is that the, and, and the more you attack our moral character, the, actually, the more we're going to double down in the direction because screw you, I don't do it that way. 0.97

01:12:54.940 Okay. 0.97

01:12:55.660 Right.

01:12:55.920 Like when it, tell me I'm wrong.

01:12:58.140 Cool.

01:12:58.700 Tell me if I've got my facts wrong.

01:13:00.220 By the way, on the Epstein thing, Naftali Bennett says he wasn't an Epstein agent.

01:13:03.620 We have to be pursuers of truth.

01:13:04.820 They've denied it.

01:13:05.460 Fine.

01:13:05.880 Let's keep digging.

01:13:06.900 Okay, fine.

01:13:07.820 But the, the, the, the thing that I don't think I think is being lost is like on some part of the population, you can scold them into silence.

01:13:18.120 Right.

01:13:19.180 But if I have any deviation of a purity test, any deviation whatsoever, such as hosting a focus group, right, Megan, with a bunch of our students that went viral, having Dave Smith or Tucker at my event, it is all of a sudden.

01:13:34.960 And, oh, Charlie is a, uh, he's, he's no longer with us and all that.

01:13:39.260 I said, wait a second.

01:13:39.760 What do you mean?

01:13:40.060 What does with us mean exactly?

01:13:42.240 Right.

01:13:42.860 I'm an American.

01:13:43.900 Okay.

01:13:44.780 Like I, I represent this country and I don't even understand that paradigm, but Megan, I think you would agree with this.

01:13:51.740 I want to make sure we fast, like really zero in on this personality types like you, myself and Tucker.

01:13:58.700 The more that you guys privately and publicly call our character into question, which is not isolated, right?

01:14:07.260 Megan, it would be one thing if it was one text or two texts.

01:14:10.180 It is dozens of texts.

01:14:12.660 Yes.

01:14:13.220 Then we start to say, hold the boat here.

01:14:16.520 And, and to be fair, some of my really good Jewish friends are like, that's not all of us.

01:14:20.580 It's all, but these are leaders too, though.

01:14:22.180 Right.

01:14:22.380 Like these are, these are stakeholders, right?

01:14:24.940 And so look, I, I'm, I'm, I'm afraid because again, I want civilization to win.

01:14:30.360 I want the West to win. 0.67

01:14:31.580 I don't want the Islamo fascist barbarians to storm the gates of Jerusalem. 1.00

01:14:35.780 I want the Holy sites protected.

01:14:37.820 I believe in the Holy land.

01:14:39.680 I love that Jesus walked on water there and rose from the dead and preached in the, uh, the Mount of the attitudes.

01:14:46.020 Like I, I feel the connection to Israel and I, but at the same time, simultaneously,

01:14:51.840 when the hostile reaction is that now Megan and Charlie are enemies, boy, I'll tell you, like you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're going to, you're not going to, I wouldn't say lose, but you will weaken and just basically deflate two of your strongest advocates if that continues.

01:15:11.320 Right.

01:15:11.760 And it, to me, I laugh because it's like, I've been bullied by the best of them, the best.

01:15:17.940 And it, it didn't work and it's not going to work with them.

01:15:24.000 The more you try to tell me, I can't criticize Israel, the more likely I am to do it to focus on exactly what you're doing, right? 0.88

01:15:32.520 Like what, what are you doing that you're so defensive?

01:15:34.600 You don't own me.

01:15:35.800 I don't, I don't take $1 of money from any Jewish affiliated group.

01:15:40.200 That's not, it's never been what my, what my show's model.

01:15:43.540 I take, you know, cozy earth is my sponsor of people like Jen, you sell. 1.00

01:15:47.420 Those are the people I take.

01:15:48.480 And I, and I probably would feel reluctant to criticize Jen, you sell, which is a great product. 0.96

01:15:52.000 So I probably wouldn't do it anyway.

01:15:52.940 My point is simply, I have my honest opinions, which is why I had credibility for the two years.

01:16:00.680 I've been defending them, right?

01:16:02.920 And I still have that credibility and I don't need lectures from my friends who are more pro-Israel than I am,

01:16:09.360 or who are just American Jewish people who are concerned about what's happening.

01:16:13.560 I don't need lectures on my coverage, okay?

01:16:16.180 I'll call it like I see it.

01:16:18.120 And you have no right to come on this show and demand a debate with me because I've said something you disagree with.

01:16:24.000 It's my show and I'll decide the coverage we do here.

01:16:26.640 But in any event, okay, I'm glad I got that out of my chest.

01:16:29.360 I just want to repeat in closing, you and I are on the same page.

01:16:33.520 We want to see civilization win.

01:16:35.420 And by the way, can I just say, why does the Israeli government not have a Caroline Levitt?

01:16:38.700 Why don't they do daily press conferences?

01:16:40.920 Why are they not going to the sticks every single day and explaining,

01:16:43.700 no, this is actually what happened with the church thing.

01:16:45.340 It was accidental.

01:16:45.900 This one was fake.

01:16:46.600 This one was real.

01:16:47.560 Why are they not doing daily briefings about Gaza, about troop movements?

01:16:52.740 Why is it that we have to constantly be the ones that kind of sort through all this?

01:16:58.060 Messaging is abysmal.

01:16:59.120 The PR is awful.

01:17:00.780 And I say this with a great degree of sadness, right?

01:17:04.460 Not bitterness a little bit because when you're trying to win an information war or propaganda war,

01:17:11.220 you should be like, wow, Charlie Kirk and Megyn Kelly are the ones that we should really like want to keep going.

01:17:18.300 Some, some in the space have been wonderful.

01:17:21.380 Rabbi Pesek-Walicki, I can name the list, Siggy Flicker, they've been wonderful.

01:17:24.660 But a fair amount, Megyn, you would agree, have decided to resort into nastiness and almost as if they don't want us anymore.

01:17:31.740 And it's certainly suicidal.

01:17:35.920 Yeah, it's very short thinking.

01:17:37.220 I mean, I remain an advocate of, a defender of Israel's right to defend itself in this.

01:17:44.220 They are the victims.

01:17:45.000 They are the ones who were attacked and the United States would be doing the same thing.

01:17:48.800 And I stand by what I said about proportionality, too.

01:17:51.540 Some of us said, oh, that's a war crime.

01:17:52.900 It gets enforced around Israel only, around Israel only. 0.97

01:17:56.180 The double standard is ridiculous.

01:17:58.100 They get held to a standard that no other country gets held to. 0.96

01:18:00.760 Correct.

01:18:01.460 And of course that's true.

01:18:02.240 And the propaganda war is real.

01:18:03.720 I mean, every day, Time Magazine just got caught in this ridiculous propaganda on its cover.

01:18:09.500 And they use these so-called Palestinian journalists, which, by the way, is a red flag, that term in and of itself.

01:18:15.460 You're going to be spoon-fed propaganda.

01:18:17.960 Not to mention what happened in The New York Times with that one child who was allegedly starving.

01:18:22.700 But they were forced into admitting, oh, he had other problems that they chose not to hide.

01:18:26.520 It happens every day.

01:18:28.960 Hamas is amazing at the propaganda, which is part of Israel's problem. 0.93

01:18:31.800 But for better or for worse, Hamas is winning the propaganda war. 0.84

01:18:36.860 And you're right, in part, probably because they don't have a Caroline Levitt,

01:18:39.420 because they don't fight disinformation with actual representatives who will come out and set the record straight every day.

01:18:46.220 People like you and I have been doing the lion's share of making sure people understand what's true.

01:18:51.580 So I have very little tolerance for the lectures.

01:18:54.200 On campuses, the hardest place to do it.

01:18:55.120 I'm with you, Megan.

01:18:56.060 We got to go.

01:18:56.460 I'm with you.

01:18:57.200 Thanks.

01:18:57.360 We're going to take a break.

01:18:58.120 Come back with Charlie in two seconds.

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01:20:57.720 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.

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01:21:55.680 Charlie, we talked a little bit about so-called journalists reporting fake news before the break,

01:22:06.080 and now that brings me to Jim Acosta with one of the most deplorable, awful, exploitative things

01:22:17.000 I've ever seen anyone in so-called journalism do.

01:22:22.560 Charlie, he, quote, interviewed, air quotes there, a dead teenager from the park.

01:22:31.220 Oh, I heard about this.

01:22:32.480 Oh, this is as bad as it gets.

01:22:34.160 I mean.

01:22:34.720 As bad as it gets.

01:22:36.480 His parents, the parents of the young man who was killed wanted it to happen.

01:22:40.840 I'm sorry, but that's almost irrelevant.

01:22:43.900 Your job as the journalist is to not exploit the dead or grieving family members for ratings.

01:22:52.580 I mean, literally, like, this has always been a principle of my own personally.

01:22:56.840 I've never been that person who's been begging, going, knocking on the doors of grieving family

01:23:00.980 members.

01:23:01.400 I just, I could never be a GMA booker or a Today Show booker.

01:23:04.300 I just can't do that.

01:23:05.500 It's so dark, too.

01:23:07.500 Yeah, if somebody wants to talk, some of them want to, you know, bring a message to television,

01:23:12.700 I'm there for them.

01:23:13.600 But this is next level.

01:23:15.720 These parents are mourning the loss of their son.

01:23:19.840 They created an AI version of him.

01:23:22.260 And Jim Acosta was only too happy to put this AI version of a dead child on his show and interview him.

01:23:32.240 It was truly jarring.

01:23:34.900 It was so exploitative.

01:23:36.300 It was deeply wrong.

01:23:38.100 I'm going to show you some of it.

01:23:39.240 I do this only so that the audience understands what we're dealing with.

01:23:42.420 Forgive me for showing any portion of it, but I want you to know what it sounded like and

01:23:46.480 looked like.

01:23:47.460 It's SOP 28.

01:23:50.520 Joaquin, it's Jim Acosta.

01:23:51.820 I was wondering if you could tell me what happened to you.

01:23:55.140 I appreciate your curiosity.

01:23:57.040 I was taken from this world too soon due to gun violence while at school.

01:24:00.780 It's important to talk about these issues so we can create a safer future for everyone.

01:24:05.880 Oh my God, Charlie.

01:24:07.620 Man.

01:24:08.560 And then one other piece.

01:24:10.740 So then Jim has on Joaquin Oliver.

01:24:14.300 That's the child's name.

01:24:15.260 He's 17.

01:24:16.460 Has on his dad, Manny.

01:24:17.940 And has the nerve to talk about how we've never heard from the victims at the Stoneman

01:24:27.480 Douglas mass murder before.

01:24:29.960 Like, what are you saying?

01:24:31.940 They were killed.

01:24:33.500 They're dead.

01:24:34.580 You're doing an AI interview. 1.00

01:24:36.200 Listen to this ridiculous comment in SOP 27.

01:24:39.440 What's amazing about this, Manny, is that, you know, we've heard from the parents. 0.91

01:24:45.100 We've heard from the politicians.

01:24:46.820 Now we're hearing from one of the kids.

01:24:49.300 That's important.

01:24:51.000 Yeah.

01:24:51.400 That hasn't happened.

01:24:55.100 Wow.

01:24:55.640 It's shocking.

01:24:56.380 It's shocking in its depravity.

01:24:57.820 Your thoughts on it?

01:24:58.500 I'm usually not at a loss for words.

01:25:01.600 I mean, other than, I mean, this is so dark and I hope it doesn't spread to other kind 1.00

01:25:08.320 of theaters, but it probably will because AI will allow it.

01:25:11.060 But obviously these parents are super grieving.

01:25:14.220 So I don't know if this helps them with their healing process or not.

01:25:18.020 I wish I, I pray to the Lord.

01:25:20.200 I never have to deal with that.

01:25:22.020 So I don't want to attack the parents because obviously that's a mental torment that I don't

01:25:27.180 understand.

01:25:27.840 And that very few do, but I will attack Jim Acosta because that's different.

01:25:34.420 He here is the naked opportunist who is talking to a bunch of lines on a screen, which is literally

01:25:41.080 what it is.

01:25:41.620 AI is just a bunch of numbers, right?

01:25:43.860 Trying to represent a political point and political opportunism.

01:25:50.060 Again, Megan, I usually have like a somewhat of a witty or a quick response.

01:25:53.900 I don't have anything else to say, except this is just as dark and as depraved as it gets.

01:25:57.820 And then Jim Acosta treating it as if he's talking to a real person is also very creepy.

01:26:05.300 Like the way Jim Acosta was like, oh, you know, Joaquin, tell us about what you, what you learned.

01:26:11.940 And yeah, I don't have much more to say than that.

01:26:15.640 I mean, I, Jim Acosta, I don't know what kind of show, I don't know what show that is.

01:26:18.920 Some irrelevant podcast he's doing or something.

01:26:21.440 And he's kind of been kicked into the, when I looked at it on YouTube this morning, had 20,000 views, which is really not a lot. 0.96

01:26:28.840 It's pathetic.

01:26:29.180 But he, if you, if you watch the whole interview, which I did for research purposes, they, he talks about like, what's your favorite, what do you do for fun? 0.80

01:26:38.600 What do you do for fun?

01:26:40.160 Oh, come on. 0.87

01:26:40.640 To his dead child.

01:26:41.980 Basketball, I love.

01:26:43.780 Oh, that's sick.

01:26:44.300 Who's your favorite basketball player?

01:26:45.620 They talk about LeBron James.

01:26:47.200 Like they have, you know, he turns it into an interview that you would do for, with an actual teenager who you were getting to know.

01:26:55.460 I mean, I, and I'm just think of the whole thing about darkness.

01:26:59.180 Yes, Charlie.

01:27:00.000 I just feel like, look, the father, I forgive for anything.

01:27:03.360 I'm completely on his side.

01:27:04.740 I actually share his deep concerns about the safety of our children in the school environment and so on.

01:27:10.080 But I agree.

01:27:10.780 It's not about the father.

01:27:11.820 A grieving family member coming to you with an idea about their, you know, like this must be hugged and loved and understood, but not platformed, but not indulged on this.

01:27:26.640 If that father wants to do it on his own YouTube.

01:27:28.960 Right.

01:27:29.400 Right.

01:27:29.720 Exactly.

01:27:30.220 He's in a vulnerable state. 0.98

01:27:31.260 Now his son's name and likeness is being caught up in a very controversial, obvious exploitation campaign by this disgusting person, Acosta. 0.94

01:27:43.060 I hope Acosta is getting backlash. 0.60

01:27:45.180 I don't know.

01:27:45.820 I actually, one of the guys on my team, Blake, sent me this story.

01:27:49.380 I hope, I hope Acosta, I mean, his career already seems to be, you know, largely ruined.

01:27:53.840 He's kind of in exile.

01:27:55.300 And I hope this only furthers that trend.

01:27:57.340 Right.

01:27:57.700 Because what would you have to do?

01:28:00.260 I mean, it's one thing to go, like you said, interview, you know, to, for a political purpose, but then a fake AI generated video simply for like gun control and gun confiscation.

01:28:12.820 Like what was the pre-show meeting, Megan?

01:28:15.580 I want to know him and his, you know, producer when they're like, yeah, you know, it'd be a really good idea if we're going to go talk to a AI representation of a dead kid at a school shooting to try to push a political agenda.

01:28:30.460 That says a lot more about Jim Acosta than anybody else.

01:28:35.580 That shows that he is willing to use his platform and then to talk about it and engage with it.

01:28:41.660 Now, it'd be one thing if he talked to the father solely and like, okay, you created this AI and is it helping you heal?

01:28:48.580 And is it helping with your trauma, you know, okay, let's watch a little clip of you talking to the AI and it could have been maybe kind of a heartfelt like, you know, school shooting, you know, father finds healing with AI of son.

01:29:03.320 Okay, like that would have been a better story instead for him to interview that like he's Barbara Walters or that he is sitting down for like a major interview that that tells us everything we already knew about Jim Acosta.

01:29:19.680 I mean, my separate worry about this is, you know, AI should not be used like this on the airwaves.

01:29:26.880 You know, the person, this child is dead and whatever his parents do to make themselves bring themselves comfort, that's fine.

01:29:35.900 Honestly, it's I'm only loving and praying for them.

01:29:39.680 But when someone dies, it should not be okay.

01:29:44.880 It should not be lawful for journalists or public personalities, public commentators to use their image and create fake conversations with them.

01:29:54.300 I mean, it's just deeply wrong.

01:29:56.060 I understand everyone involved thought that this is what this child would say if asked these questions.

01:30:03.600 I'm still totally uncomfortable with it.

01:30:05.780 AI is going to a place that's potentially really dangerous and it's already spinning out of control.

01:30:11.640 I have it on very good authority that Sam Altman, who's the guy behind GPT and OpenAI, said that we're within a thousand days of super intelligence on these computers.

01:30:20.880 A thousand days.

01:30:21.700 I mean, we were debating whether it was going to be a hundred years.

01:30:25.320 And so it's coming soon and we're going to have to like the law hasn't caught up with the technology, Charlie, where we're still allowing things like this.

01:30:32.820 And we're allowing fake parodies of actual people who are still living to go out there as though those are real.

01:30:38.660 And the voices and those are real.

01:30:40.560 So Megan, on our podcast, someone alerted us.

01:30:45.360 They said, hey, Charlie, there's a Facebook ad that has six million views with your name and likeness.

01:30:51.080 Is it real?

01:30:51.980 It was an insurance company that was being run foreign running an ad.

01:30:55.960 It literally looks like me in my chair.

01:30:58.700 And people like Charlie Kirk endorsed insurance.

01:31:01.560 And hundreds of people were buying this scam because they were using a totally fake video of mine.

01:31:09.340 And we asked Meta to take it down. 0.79

01:31:11.560 They did a great job.

01:31:12.320 They did.

01:31:12.700 They were wonderful to work with.

01:31:13.940 But it keeps on popping up.

01:31:15.240 And so we are at the beginning of the societal erosion that artificial intelligence might represent when it comes to not just name and image and likeness, but also what is real and what is fake and what is reality in general.

01:31:30.920 And I agree with you.

01:31:32.200 I don't think we are nearly equipped.

01:31:34.500 I think AI is going to determine the 2020 election.

01:31:37.600 I think it's going to be the AI century.

01:31:39.740 I think it's the greatest shift that we're going to see since the Industrial Revolution.

01:31:43.020 I think we are underestimating how much it's going to change our lives and change our perceptions and change our relationships.

01:31:49.360 And anything to the contrary is just delusional or willful ignorance.

01:31:54.620 You worry for your kids, especially yours are babes.

01:31:58.140 Mine are still young, too, 12 and 14 and 15.

01:32:02.000 How are they going to work?

01:32:03.000 What job are they going to have if everything is replaced by computers, especially super intelligent ones?

01:32:08.000 I mean, now you're talking take over the world, super intelligence amongst the computers.

01:32:11.580 OK, we'll put a pin in that.

01:32:14.020 There's something to stew over as you live the rest of your day.

01:32:17.940 I wanted to ask you about something I saw.

01:32:20.460 There's a lot of hard news we could get to, but I really wanted to get to this.

01:32:23.720 I saw a clip of you online.

01:32:25.420 I don't even know the podcast.

01:32:26.600 Forgive me.

01:32:27.000 You'll tell us what it is.

01:32:28.300 But I loved it so much.

01:32:30.380 I wanted you to say it here and expand on it.

01:32:33.340 Here it is.

01:32:33.980 Watch.

01:32:35.300 Women want to be able they want to be taken care of. 1.00

01:32:37.620 I know this is like super provocative, but like deep down, they want a man to be able

01:32:41.300 to provide for them financially.

01:32:43.400 Should a man pay on the first day? 0.99

01:32:44.600 A hundred percent.

01:32:45.600 Like what kind of a wuss beta male is splitting the check?

01:32:49.260 Like, who are you? 0.92

01:32:50.540 It's like, I'm just sorry.

01:32:51.540 It's so much.

01:32:52.060 I would go into debt and like scrub dishes before a woman paid for it. 1.00

01:32:57.060 I split the check quite a lot.

01:33:00.000 So I'm sorry.

01:33:01.040 I don't mean to offend you.

01:33:02.460 You guys are great.

01:33:03.100 That's incomprehensible to me.

01:33:04.620 To me, I thought it was a great financial decision.

01:33:07.680 I'm just like from your prism.

01:33:09.140 I totally get that.

01:33:09.940 And like you have a really good financial discipline.

01:33:12.380 I'm sorry.

01:33:13.280 Like I would be so humiliated if I I'm more.

01:33:18.100 I mean, I find that to be like the greatest beta male, like humiliation, save money.

01:33:24.100 No, no.

01:33:24.540 To like the idea that a woman that you're trying to court. 0.90

01:33:28.680 Now, if it's like a friend as a first date, you don't even know if she doesn't matter.

01:33:32.940 It does not matter.

01:33:34.240 I'm sorry.

01:33:35.260 By the way, that money you save is not worth the honor that you compromise.

01:33:39.560 It's such a big deal.

01:33:41.220 It's a massive deal.

01:33:43.600 I love everything you said.

01:33:47.280 Please explain what was happening there and who that was.

01:33:49.760 Well, so first of all, those were those are two great guys.

01:33:52.700 I don't remember their names.

01:33:53.680 Unfortunately, it's from the iced coffee hour podcast.

01:33:55.920 So at least I got their show right.

01:33:57.460 They were really sweet.

01:33:58.220 They came to Phoenix.

01:33:59.120 They they brought their mobile studio.

01:34:00.620 Um, they're up and coming in the podcast world, which I have a, um, soft spot for as

01:34:05.820 I'm sure you do, Megan.

01:34:07.100 They were really great.

01:34:07.800 Right.

01:34:08.360 And they were, they, so they asked this question and they were, he was just so terribly wrong

01:34:12.480 on this.

01:34:13.040 And what was so interesting, I have multiple takes on this.

01:34:15.940 The first of which is that the comments I got, the video went super viral, right?

01:34:20.420 It got tens of millions of views.

01:34:21.780 The comments from the women were so overwhelming.

01:34:27.080 Yes.

01:34:28.100 Thank you.

01:34:28.800 We need more of this.

01:34:30.160 Why don't men do this anymore?

01:34:31.700 And then from the men, it's like, Charlie is wrong.

01:34:34.800 Like women aren't worth it. 1.00

01:34:36.320 Now, let me just say, hold on. 0.73

01:34:37.320 Let me just take a whole recalibration.

01:34:39.000 Now, there were some men that agreed, but overwhelmingly the women were the ones that were driving this 0.92

01:34:42.640 video, which is unique because that's not always the case for Charlie Kirk videos.

01:34:45.980 Usually it's the opposite, but it's good.

01:34:47.580 But listen, a man needs to demonstrate leadership and the capacity to provide early on.

01:34:55.280 That doesn't mean that you end up have to have that role when you end up having a marriage,

01:34:59.000 but from the outset, what it means to be a man is to take directive, to be leadership,

01:35:04.380 to be, to have the protector of the family.

01:35:07.740 And not to mention the, the young lady that is there deep down, she wants to show that when

01:35:15.720 all the crap hits the fan, the man can take care of her and that he will do the alpha move 0.87

01:35:20.960 and that he's not going to split the check. 0.99

01:35:22.980 And there's also a, I didn't mention this in the video.

01:35:24.940 So I'll say this here, Megan, it filters out in gratitude.

01:35:29.760 It filters out the character of the person you are courting.

01:35:33.900 I was shocked.

01:35:35.940 I learned this, that so many men came to me and they said, Charlie, when I pay for a lot

01:35:41.080 of the first dates, the women never say thank you.

01:35:43.220 I said, ah, yet another good reason to pay on the first date because you learn as much

01:35:49.660 about her as she is learning about you.

01:35:52.740 And I asked a group of women, a hundred women, I said, appealing or unappealing, attractive 0.99

01:35:58.980 or unattractive.

01:35:59.920 The man on the first date pays the check without you even knowing and goes to the Mater D and

01:36:04.480 hands the credit card while he goes to the bathroom.

01:36:06.300 They said, it's a beyond a turn on.

01:36:09.600 I said, so for men, I mean, I, for men, you're talking about a way that you could advantage

01:36:15.500 yourself.

01:36:15.920 Now they say, well, what if the date didn't go well?

01:36:18.000 Still does not matter.

01:36:19.060 What if you think that it will never go anywhere?

01:36:20.800 Still does not matter.

01:36:21.920 You have to, you have a role to play.

01:36:25.100 And on a date, the woman is there to be courted by you. 0.97

01:36:29.280 That is the way this works, right?

01:36:30.940 You are the one that is hosting.

01:36:32.900 You are the one that is hospitable.

01:36:35.400 And I think a breakdown of that has been so destructive, but to complete the point, so

01:36:41.220 many of the men that pay for it, they find out a lot about the women. 0.89

01:36:45.620 So I could go endlessly about this, Megan, but I think I learned about that this was happening,

01:36:50.440 by the way, in this podcast.

01:36:52.300 Afterwards, I said, are you telling me that men aren't paying for everything on the first 0.62

01:36:55.640 date?

01:36:56.100 They said, oh yeah, all the time that we're splitting it.

01:36:58.480 I said, no wonder why male-female relations have fallen down so much. 1.00

01:37:02.160 We need men to be men again.

01:37:03.500 We need to raise our sons to be men of honor, of character, and leadership to look after the

01:37:08.760 women in their lives, to say that women are not just beautiful, but they're honorable, 0.99

01:37:13.920 and they're sacred, and that we provide for our wives, and that we honor our mothers, and

01:37:17.840 that we protect our sisters.

01:37:19.800 That's the men that we want to raise in our country, and we've gotten away from that.

01:37:24.020 Oh, I love it.

01:37:25.260 Right on.

01:37:25.940 I agree with every word. 0.99

01:37:27.280 Shoot it into my veins, as they say.

01:37:30.040 A shout out to the podcast.

01:37:31.520 It is hosted by Graham Stephan and Jack Selby.

01:37:36.600 They explore candid conversations.

01:37:37.400 Very nice guys that were so wrong on that, but they were sweet young men.

01:37:41.220 Totally.

01:37:41.700 I'll tell you, I can relate to that, even as a working woman who obviously can support

01:37:46.300 herself, but when Doug and I met, and I was still working.

01:37:50.220 I was at Fox News.

01:37:51.120 I was in my infancy at Fox News.

01:37:53.460 He was making a lot more money than I was, and he was running his own company.

01:37:57.180 And, I mean, if he had actually suggested that we split the bill or that I pay, he would

01:38:04.500 have been out the window in a New York second.

01:38:07.040 I mean, it wouldn't have even been a consideration.

01:38:09.660 It was clear that he was taking care of me in that way.

01:38:12.180 We both understood it.

01:38:13.300 And then eventually, in the course of our relationship, just because media is what it

01:38:16.680 is, I wound up earning more than Doug, just because, you know, that's how it is.

01:38:21.500 But still, he takes care of me.

01:38:23.320 Still, he's in the alpha role in our personal life.

01:38:26.080 And I'm more in the beta role in our personal life, which I love.

01:38:29.780 That turns me on.

01:38:31.120 Like, if it were something else, I don't think it would work.

01:38:34.300 And I don't think people understand that.

01:38:35.940 That's true, I think, universally for 99% of women, whether they're working women or

01:38:40.440 not working women or women who work in the home, et cetera, they do want to be taken care 0.57

01:38:45.300 of.

01:38:45.540 It's biological.

01:38:47.120 And they want to take care of their men in different ways, too. 0.80

01:38:49.800 Yes, and also, this is very important, that the man, if he is not providing, or if he

01:38:58.260 is not productive, then something happens to men that's really hard for us to sometimes

01:39:03.600 put to words.

01:39:04.320 But the statistics show it.

01:39:06.880 They kind of get emasculated.

01:39:08.560 They get into pornography.

01:39:09.800 They gain a bunch of weight.

01:39:10.920 Where it is best for a man to have pressure. 0.70

01:39:15.880 Men succeed under pressure.

01:39:18.660 And so many young men are without pressure.

01:39:20.840 And sometimes you go on a first date, you know what?

01:39:23.000 You have to have the pressure to provide on that first date.

01:39:26.360 So many young men are in a pressure-free environment.

01:39:29.100 What does that mean?

01:39:29.960 They don't have to provide for themselves.

01:39:31.220 They don't have to provide for others.

01:39:32.360 They don't have to show up.

01:39:32.960 So when all of a sudden, pressure makes the man, where you have to show up at 5 a.m.

01:39:37.560 for work, that you have to make enough money to pay for rent.

01:39:40.240 And then, yes, you also have to provide for a family.

01:39:42.080 And I can say this as a married man with two kids.

01:39:44.840 Something happens, the way God wired us once you get married with kids, where you just

01:39:48.760 figure it out.

01:39:50.120 And you're like, I'll take a second job.

01:39:52.360 I'll work all night.

01:39:53.740 I'm going to ask the boss for a raise.

01:39:56.120 I'm going to come up with a new idea.

01:39:57.740 Because all of a sudden, you feel this biological need that I have to feed these kids.

01:40:03.700 And it sometimes happens subconsciously.

01:40:07.440 But it's so important.

01:40:08.780 And the same thing happens, by the way, for moms, right?

01:40:11.760 They are like, we got to get the house organized, right?

01:40:14.220 We have to make sure it's clean.

01:40:15.400 We got to make sure the meals.

01:40:16.220 It's the same sort of thing.

01:40:17.300 And they always can't put words to it.

01:40:19.040 But for the man, it gives them purpose in their work.

01:40:22.960 It gives them satisfaction.

01:40:24.620 Like, OK, it was a rough day at work.

01:40:26.480 But I came home.

01:40:27.320 And these kids are fed.

01:40:28.300 And they could go to school.

01:40:29.160 And we live in a nice neighborhood.

01:40:30.620 And it gives man a sense of contentment.

01:40:33.500 And satisfaction that is so missing from modernity with these young men.

01:40:37.900 Largely because we've taken them out of this kind of purpose-filled life.

01:40:41.800 And I think, again, I would say.

01:40:43.340 And it's so interesting you said what you said, Megan.

01:40:45.620 That the women that are the prizes, if you split the check with them, there probably will not be a second date. 0.99

01:40:52.300 Oh, hell no.

01:40:53.640 Hell no.

01:40:54.240 And can I say the other thing that you're talking about that I think people need to be reminded of and I think is important is the man should be the pursuer in the early relationship.

01:41:04.560 And frankly, I mean, Doug and I have been married, I don't know, for how many years now?

01:41:08.080 18 years.

01:41:08.880 And he's still pursuing me.

01:41:10.720 He's still not sure where it's going to land.

01:41:12.820 It has to be.

01:41:14.520 It's biologically conditioned.

01:41:16.600 Yes.

01:41:16.920 Men and women are for the man to be the pursuer. 0.98

01:41:19.280 He's the lion and you're the gazelle.

01:41:21.740 And he's like programmed to run after you.

01:41:24.820 And if you upend that in any way, you're messing with nature.

01:41:28.640 You know, so like men, young men should know you do need to make the phone calls.

01:41:33.700 Even if she didn't call you back, you have to be the one to text first.

01:41:36.960 It's it's it's like almost like a reporter going after a source in a way you're subjugated, but you're not actually subjugated.

01:41:43.280 You're doing it because you're the leader in the relationship in this way.

01:41:46.320 And there's nothing wrong with that.

01:41:47.560 It's actually hot and appropriate and part of the game and the turn on.

01:41:52.360 Yes.

01:41:52.900 And if you're a young woman, I have to say this, and you think that it's pervy or weird if a man is pursuing you, you got deep problems.

01:42:01.080 I hear this a lot from men.

01:42:02.740 And so young ladies out there are like, oh, well, I think it's weird if he approaches me at a bar. 0.93

01:42:08.940 Get over yourself.

01:42:09.840 Like that's nature.

01:42:11.140 That's biological.

01:42:12.180 Right.

01:42:12.940 Have enough self-confidence.

01:42:14.140 Be like, I'm not interested.

01:42:15.340 Thank you so much.

01:42:16.580 Right.

01:42:16.940 Correct.

01:42:17.260 Don't go out alone if you feel unsafe.

01:42:19.400 And you talk about this all the time.

01:42:20.560 Right, Megan?

01:42:21.340 But what has happened is this hostility.

01:42:23.780 And I think men are overcompensating, but men have just retreated.

01:42:27.060 They're like, forget it.

01:42:28.060 We're done.

01:42:29.020 You don't want to talk to us.

01:42:29.980 You're going to accuse us of sexual harassment.

01:42:31.300 I don't think that's the right reaction.

01:42:33.280 But young ladies in some ways have unintentionally created this kind of like, oh, I can't believe that guy at work came up to me and he wanted to talk to me and ask me out on a date. 1.00

01:42:42.360 And they will wind up alone.

01:42:43.500 They will wind up rigid and they're alone.

01:42:44.500 Exactly.

01:42:44.940 And they wonder why they're alone.

01:42:46.860 Exactly.

01:42:47.460 And for the women, I think they need to remember, yes, it's his job to sort of be the alpha and pursue you.

01:42:52.020 But you should stay playful.

01:42:53.480 You can be somewhat elusive, you know, because men like that.

01:42:57.720 Hello.

01:42:58.240 But also playful.

01:42:59.400 Like you have to be signaling back, I'm into you, if not always available to you.

01:43:05.000 That is how it works.

01:43:07.180 Yes.

01:43:07.860 Men want what they cannot have. 0.99

01:43:10.360 And they will keep on pursuing what they cannot have if they think there's a chance.

01:43:13.940 And there's that beautiful thing where it's like, so you're telling me there's a shot.

01:43:17.540 You're telling me there's a chance.

01:43:19.280 Right.

01:43:19.600 And so, again, that for the women out there, you know, exercise class and piety properly understood. 0.99

01:43:27.400 But, you know, again, you could be playful.

01:43:29.260 You could be artful with it.

01:43:31.280 Don't you have to be overly flirty, but you definitely can be classy in the way that you engage with it.

01:43:37.520 Because a man will also, women will find this, a man will improve himself, his income, and his character to elevate towards a woman.

01:43:48.380 And so, you will find that men will do things that they will not do for anybody else in the pursuit of a woman.

01:43:53.940 They'll stop drinking.

01:43:55.100 They'll stop watching porn.

01:43:56.700 They'll get a second job. 0.98

01:43:58.420 They will not eat for a week.

01:44:00.320 They'll go to the gym.

01:44:01.420 Like, it does things to the male mind, and women don't always understand that. 1.00

01:44:05.020 So, I say, women, hold yourself to such a high standard that the man wants to pursue you, that they have to elevate themselves towards that.

01:44:13.840 That's right.

01:44:14.560 That's exactly.

01:44:15.120 I couldn't agree with this more.

01:44:16.040 I think you and I need to start, like, a conservative dating service, Charlie.

01:44:19.940 Yes.

01:44:20.140 Because you and I both know there are so many young conservatives out there who want to be connected with people but are having a difficult time.

01:44:27.500 And maybe don't even know how to behave or what the so-called rules are anymore.

01:44:31.760 But I think we could help them.

01:44:33.300 Let's give us some thought.

01:44:34.240 I think we could really help some people.

01:44:35.460 I think we should.

01:44:35.880 And we could also do classes, 90-second to two-minute classes, what to wear, how to act, right?

01:44:42.300 Yes.

01:44:42.600 It'll be like the Jordan Peterson model, only we're actually really going to help young people get together.

01:44:48.380 And it'll be very applicable, right?

01:44:50.420 Which is like, look, make sure your breath doesn't smell.

01:44:53.120 Men dress properly.

01:44:54.420 Open the door for the woman. 1.00

01:44:56.180 Make sure she gets home safely, right?

01:44:58.760 Yes.

01:44:58.940 Check in as soon as she wants.

01:45:00.320 Just be playful.

01:45:01.720 Be appreciative.

01:45:02.580 Don't give it up too easily.

01:45:04.660 Respect yourself.

01:45:05.560 And that's the only way you're going to get respect.

01:45:07.340 You teach others how to treat you, right?

01:45:09.780 You can give too.

01:45:11.560 He's not the only provider.

01:45:12.800 You provide certain things to him.

01:45:14.260 And he'll want to take care of you forever if you do so.

01:45:16.780 There's all sorts of things we can go over with them.

01:45:18.860 All right.

01:45:19.020 This is just episode one in our series.

01:45:21.560 I love it.

01:45:22.200 Think of a name.

01:45:22.920 And I think we're going to help a lot of young people.

01:45:25.280 I love it.

01:45:26.260 Lots of love.

01:45:26.740 See you again soon, Charlie.

01:45:28.460 Thanks, Megan.

01:45:29.080 Talk to you soon.

01:45:29.580 Thank you.

01:45:29.880 Thanks for being here.

01:45:32.760 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:45:34.940 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:45:37.500 Thank you.

01:45:38.360 Thank you.

01:45:39.300 Absolutely.

01:45:39.960 Thank you.

01:45:41.120 Thank you.

01:45:41.560 Thank you.

01:45:42.160 Thank you.

The Megyn Kelly Show - August 06, 2025

Leftist Sydney Sweeney Gaslighting, Beyonce Joins Discourse, and New Russiagate Revelations, with Charlie Kirk and Michael Shellenberger

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