The Megyn Kelly Show - Lisa Cook Investigation Grows, RFK vs. Senators, and Bari Weiss CBS News Rumblings, with Glenn Greenwald

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00:01:01.260 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:01:06.900 Hey, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:15.940 Tons of breaking news happening right now, especially in the legal battles related to President Trump.

00:01:21.420 Sources telling The Megyn Kelly Show there is now a grand jury proceeding underway in Atlanta, Georgia,

00:01:29.200 looking into whether Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook committed criminal fraud

00:01:35.200 by listing more than one property as a primary residence when she applied for mortgages

00:01:39.840 or mischaracterizing her mortgages in general,

00:01:43.120 and that this probe may go even beyond those specific instances.

00:01:48.260 We'll find out.

00:01:49.160 But what this means is that the referral by Bill Pulte,

00:01:53.200 the director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency,

00:01:56.040 to the DOJ of the Ms. Cook problems,

00:02:00.980 has satisfied DOJ prosecutors that the Cook alleged mortgage fraud is serious enough

00:02:06.820 to warrant possible criminal charges against her.

00:02:11.000 They're presenting it to a grand jury in Atlanta right now.

00:02:15.440 Ms. Cook's got bigger problems than the loss of her job.

00:02:18.440 She should really focus her efforts right now to staying out of jail

00:02:22.500 and not to holding on to her Cush 14-year position,

00:02:25.680 for which she was unqualified to begin with.

00:02:28.380 We'll get into the details that we've just learned here.

00:02:31.060 Plus, we've got RFKJ on Capitol Hill sparring with Democratic senators and some on the right too.

00:02:36.460 But man, some of these Democratic senators, good Lord, Michael Bennett of Colorado,

00:02:40.740 he's an angry, angry man.

00:02:42.860 Good gracious, he's pissed.

00:02:44.960 Every time you hear from him, he's really angry.

00:02:47.800 He's like, he's from Colorado.

00:02:51.460 Go and look at the beautiful mountains.

00:02:54.120 Smell the gorgeous fresh air if you can get away from all the weed that's all over Colorado.

00:02:59.020 But like, do something to lower your temperature, sir.

00:03:02.360 Every time I see you, you're spitting mad.

00:03:05.860 You're okay.

00:03:07.240 Take a chill pill.

00:03:08.620 Joining me now, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and host of Rumble's System Update, Glenn Greenwald.

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00:04:29.640 Glenn, welcome back.

00:04:32.080 How are you doing?

00:04:33.160 I'm doing good.

00:04:33.860 I took my chill pills right before I came on.

00:04:36.280 I'm going to be very relaxed, very zen, very tranquil in contrast to Michael Bennett.

00:04:39.840 So, I'm ready to go.

00:04:41.260 Yeah, it shouldn't be hard for him to get a joint just to take the edge off a little before,

00:04:45.040 you know, he goes to this job.

00:04:46.220 Something, need something.

00:04:47.400 Right?

00:04:47.840 Like, my God, just, it's a lot, sir.

00:04:51.180 I'm going to get to him in one second, but I do want to start with Lisa Cook.

00:04:53.880 Uh, this is very interesting because, just because this federal housing guy, Bill Pulte,

00:05:00.100 refers it, you know, as it makes a referral to the DOJ does not mean the DOJ is actually

00:05:05.820 going to run with it or actually pursue an indictment with a grand jury.

00:05:10.220 But our information is that's exactly what's happening.

00:05:12.940 She allegedly committed fraud.

00:05:15.140 She denies it in three different jurisdictions.

00:05:17.080 One was Ann Arbor, Michigan.

00:05:18.540 One was Atlanta, Georgia.

00:05:19.780 And the third was Cambridge, Massachusetts.

00:05:22.040 For whatever reason, we're told that this grand jury's been open in Atlanta, although

00:05:25.980 we're told that the FBI is on the case in at least two out of those three instances.

00:05:31.560 So, the FBI is investigating her.

00:05:34.220 We are told that the possible charges that they're looking at include mortgage fraud, wire

00:05:40.080 fraud, and it could go beyond that, Glenn.

00:05:43.320 Again, she is now trying to make the case through her lawyer, Abby Lowell, that she is not fireable

00:05:51.620 for these alleged offenses because now she's claiming she disclosed these shenanigans to

00:05:59.260 senators and Biden administration officials in 2022 when she went through the confirmation

00:06:05.940 process.

00:06:06.960 So, my first thought to that was, and I'd love to know what you think as a lawyer yourself,

00:06:10.580 you can't disclose away crimes and then later say you can't fire me for the crimes.

00:06:17.460 Like, if it's a crime, it's a crime.

00:06:20.180 And just because Biden may have given you a pass on it, you're not going to turn around

00:06:23.820 later and say the new administration has no right to fire me because they actually do

00:06:28.260 care about crimes.

00:06:29.280 Like, that's not going to fly if it rises to the level of criminality in my view.

00:06:33.500 But secondly, I also have real questions about whether she really did disclose what they're

00:06:40.900 now saying she disclosed.

00:06:42.800 It's the old princess bride.

00:06:44.560 I do not think you know what that term means.

00:06:46.540 Because you look at the alleged disclosures that Abby Lowell is citing, and he is saying

00:06:54.480 in his motion, okay, I'm pulling it up, that, I don't want to get it exactly, she can't be

00:07:03.000 fired over allegations of mortgage fraud because she already fessed up to discrepancies.

00:07:07.600 This is New York Post reporting.

00:07:09.720 In her home loan paperwork, while she was being vetted by the Biden administration ahead of

00:07:13.360 her confirmation in 2022, Abby Lowell confirmed that Cook stated on a background check form

00:07:19.700 submitted as part of her vetting, one, that the Michigan house, the one in Ann Arbor, was

00:07:24.760 her primary residence and her Georgia condo was her second home.

00:07:29.520 Two, on another document, she listed both abodes, as well as her Massachusetts condo, as her

00:07:35.720 present residence, while specifying the Michigan home was her current permanent residence, and

00:07:40.500 the Caberns condo was both a second home and a rental property.

00:07:44.620 That's what, that's the evidence that she allegedly disclosed this to the Biden administration

00:07:50.620 when vetted.

00:07:51.520 Glenn, that's just listing your residences.

00:07:54.340 That, from this, in defense of Team Biden, no one would have any idea that she allegedly committed

00:08:00.160 mortgage fraud by claiming as primary residences, places that were not, or as secondary

00:08:05.380 homes, places that were actually rental properties, and so on.

00:08:09.340 So this, even what they're arguing in court to defend her, that she allegedly disclosed

00:08:14.600 it, is apparently a bunch of horseshit.

00:08:17.760 That's a legal term only people like you and I understand.

00:08:21.340 Your thoughts?

00:08:22.820 Yeah, I had a whole course on that in my third year of how to understand legal horseshit.

00:08:27.020 But, you know, not only is it not a disclosure, it's actually not even relevant to the claims.

00:08:33.560 What constitutes mortgage fraud of the type that she's accused of having committed is

00:08:38.320 that you go into the bank and you make claims about what your primary residence is because

00:08:42.720 you get better rates on your mortgage.

00:08:45.280 And you tell the bank something is your primary residence that in fact isn't, or in her case,

00:08:50.360 as she's alleged to have done, you go in and you claim different residences as both being

00:08:55.880 your primary residence, which by definition under the law is impossible.

00:08:59.520 The fact that she listed addresses and claimed that she lived in some and not others during

00:09:06.880 her appointment process and her vetting process isn't even remotely related to the question

00:09:11.600 of whether the Biden administration knew or had reason to know that she lied to the banks,

00:09:16.040 if in fact that's, it's pretty, that that's what she's done.

00:09:19.660 So I don't even understand how this is even remotely a defense, even if you were to assume

00:09:25.540 that somehow if you confess your lies to an administration that puts you in a job and

00:09:30.140 the next administration discovers those crimes, they can't fire you because you've, it's like

00:09:34.580 you've got to like some kind of pardon.

00:09:36.440 Like what would I tell you?

00:09:38.060 I, I once robbed a bank and you make me, you know, like a head of an agency and the next

00:09:43.420 administration is like, Hey, he robbed a bank.

00:09:44.880 I don't think he should belong.

00:09:45.620 Oh, well, I confess that that's not a party with Megan, but yeah, she, she said it was

00:09:52.260 good.

00:09:52.560 She said I could still serve.

00:09:53.880 So, but, but, but even, but that's not what even these documents that her own highly qualified

00:09:59.420 and very well regarded lawyer, Abby Lowell has been around DC forever.

00:10:02.540 He can't even mount the case that on its face is persuasive, even about that dubious legal

00:10:07.620 theory that if she confessed it, somehow she's immune from further consequences.

00:10:11.900 Here's the other thing.

00:10:14.460 If, if she's really going to go with, this was all disclosed and handled as, as an effort

00:10:19.320 to keep her job.

00:10:19.940 Again, as I said, she's got much bigger problems now than keeping her job.

00:10:22.880 She, she'd like to keep her freedom.

00:10:24.280 Um, but I mean, if she's going to look at potentially multiple counts of wire fraud, mortgage fraud

00:10:29.020 and something else, she really could be headed to jail.

00:10:31.760 By the way, now we just broke the news.

00:10:33.920 So people are here.

00:10:35.180 We broke that news on the Megan Kelly show, but the grand jury, um, now the wall street

00:10:39.220 journal also reporting what we are reporting and saying that the DOJ is issuing subpoenas

00:10:46.940 in connection with this, uh, inquiry in both Georgia, as we reported, the grand jury is

00:10:52.380 proceeding in Atlanta and also in Michigan.

00:10:55.280 And as I mentioned to you at the top of the show, we are understanding is the FBI is investigating

00:10:59.000 her in at least a couple of these, uh, three jurisdictions.

00:11:01.540 So that would make sense.

00:11:02.460 Michigan and Georgia were where the two main homes were.

00:11:05.020 Then she added the one in Cambridge, the wall street journal, uh, writes the initial scrutiny

00:11:09.660 has centered on cook's properties in an Ann Arbor and Atlanta with investigators using

00:11:13.620 grand juries as part of the probe.

00:11:15.400 Cook's lawyer, Abby Lowell did not respond to a request for comment by the wall street

00:11:18.140 journal.

00:11:19.000 So it's all coming together.

00:11:20.660 They have a similar reporting to my own.

00:11:23.780 And here's the question I have for you.

00:11:26.200 If she really did have this vetted as her lawyers are now claiming with respect to just

00:11:32.780 like, should she be fired and can she be fired on that from, um, where's the Senate cross

00:11:39.020 examination on it, which Senator was told that she fudged her mortgage documents in a way

00:11:47.440 that would streamline her applications with lower mortgage rates and probably lower down

00:11:51.940 payments and blessed it.

00:11:53.620 I'm looking forward to seeing that cross examination from the Lisa Cook confirmation hearing where

00:11:58.580 they said, Oh, you committed fraud.

00:12:00.640 Okay, no problem.

00:12:02.040 We're never going to find it because this is all a lie.

00:12:04.720 It was not disclosed.

00:12:05.680 She may have disclosed she had residences in all these places, but these mortgage shenanigans

00:12:09.700 were not disclosed because you can bet dollars to donuts in a very confrontational and acrimonious

00:12:15.940 confirmation hearing.

00:12:16.860 She only got confirmed 50 50 Kamala Harris had to pass it with the tying vote, the deciding

00:12:22.220 vote.

00:12:22.940 Um, it would have come up.

00:12:24.440 She would have been hammered by the Republicans.

00:12:26.220 Glenn.

00:12:26.500 The idea that this was known in Washington and they put her on the fed, the fed board

00:12:35.160 anyway, is, is so insulting to our intelligence that it's hard to believe that's even being

00:12:41.100 tried for so many, so many reasons, including the fact that, oh yeah, like just nobody mentioned

00:12:45.620 it.

00:12:45.840 There was this massive attempt to derail her nomination by the Republicans and they just

00:12:50.100 didn't even bother to use this.

00:12:51.440 Nobody mentioned it.

00:12:52.200 Nobody thought of it, but apparently it was so well known because she confessed it that

00:12:56.240 it's such a joke.

00:12:57.840 And the other thing I have to say, you know, Megan is the reason why this also should be

00:13:01.960 treated so skeptically, even by people who might, you know, support her being on the

00:13:06.500 fed is when it was first announced that Trump planned to fire her, it was instantly decreed

00:13:12.420 that the only motive he had was his attempt to subvert the independence of the fed and to

00:13:17.680 replace her with somebody more sympathetic to his economic objectives.

00:13:20.780 It was just asserted, like assumed that none of the allegations against her had any merit

00:13:26.380 at all.

00:13:26.840 These were just being invented and fabricated by Trump and the Trump White House in order

00:13:31.180 to justify removing somebody who he wanted to remove for political reasons.

00:13:34.740 There was no notion of, oh yeah, you know what?

00:13:36.860 Actually, she did do this, but for various legal reasons, he still doesn't have the authority

00:13:42.580 to remove her.

00:13:43.420 It was only after the media started looking more and seeing that there was actually a lot

00:13:47.720 here, independent of just what Republicans might want with the fed.

00:13:51.600 Did they then start having to shift their defense to invent reasons retroactively why

00:13:55.660 she can't be fired?

00:13:56.460 But that was never the claim at the start.

00:13:58.720 Yes.

00:13:59.280 And you can see like how pathetic the attempted defense is in the way this is being covered.

00:14:06.320 The Abby Lowell motion to try to get all of this against her, like in support of he wants

00:14:13.200 the firing to be overruled, overturned.

00:14:16.200 He argues as follows.

00:14:18.320 During her Senate confirmation process, Governor Cook submitted questionnaires and provided reports

00:14:24.420 that would have revealed the same purported facial contradictions the government now claims

00:14:30.840 are cause to fire her as if in reading she had a Michigan home as her primary residence

00:14:38.040 and her Georgia condo was her second home.

00:14:40.320 And then reading both abodes as well as her Massachusetts condo are her present residence

00:14:46.800 when specifying the Michigan home was her current permanent residence and the Cambridge

00:14:51.020 condo was both a second home and a rental property.

00:14:52.900 As if reading that, these senators should have said, aha, mortgage fraud, wire fraud, as opposed

00:15:00.260 to this is where she lives.

00:15:01.880 She's doing financial disclosures.

00:15:03.860 So we understand conflicts of interest and so on and so forth.

00:15:07.240 Like this is so farcical.

00:15:09.100 There's not even an allegation by Abby Lowell that something in here revealed her alleged

00:15:14.160 fraud.

00:15:15.420 And honestly, Glenn, now you still have the media trying to run cover for this woman.

00:15:20.180 I'm going to give you a couple of examples down the same line.

00:15:22.620 But this was morning Joe just last week where the national affairs analyst John Heileman took

00:15:30.880 it to this place in what the stakes are as Lisa Cook tries to defend herself.

00:15:37.400 I think she's defending more than just the independence of the Federal Reserve Board.

00:15:41.400 She's also making highlighting a point here that is pervasively being abused throughout the

00:15:47.460 Trump 2.0 era, which is the total disregard for due process, whether that relates to people

00:15:54.020 like Kilmer Abreu Garcia, people who are being picked up on the street and shipped off to

00:16:00.140 foreign prisons without any due process, or whether it's in this case where Donald Trump

00:16:04.920 has is essentially asserting that this woman is guilty of something before she has been

00:16:10.020 charged, tried or convicted.

00:16:12.380 Okay, somehow now she's standing up for Kilmer Abreu Garcia in not accepting her termination,

00:16:21.680 Glenn.

00:16:22.820 Okay, look, I'm a very, very vibrant advocate of due process.

00:16:28.040 I mean, I did have some problems with the Trump's deportation policies on due process grounds.

00:16:32.020 I think you and I once debated those.

00:16:34.880 Yeah, yeah, we sparred on that.

00:16:35.900 There's a kind of a big difference between putting somebody in prison without due process

00:16:40.960 or putting them on a plane, sending them to an El Salvador dungeon without a prison and

00:16:45.540 telling someone that because of the cloud of impropriety that's justifiably hanging over

00:16:49.680 their head, they cannot serve on the most important body that sets monetary policy for the United

00:16:54.980 States.

00:16:55.940 I mean, this is, I think, this is what I think is the key, Megan, is if at the beginning the

00:17:00.780 argument was, oh, Trump is just fabricating this.

00:17:03.300 He's going after a black woman who doesn't defer to his monetary policy.

00:17:07.700 It's a way to undermine the independence of the Fed.

00:17:12.320 This is all fabricated.

00:17:13.820 Then you can pretend you're kind of standing for a principle.

00:17:16.760 But now that they're resorting to this other defense, which is like, yeah, maybe she did

00:17:21.700 something wrong, but everybody already knew anyway.

00:17:23.860 Why are you bringing up now?

00:17:25.520 Now it's about defending somehow the right of somebody.

00:17:30.340 Like she has a vested property interest, if you want to talk about due process, in being

00:17:34.340 a governor of the board of the Federal Reserve, even though there's significant evidence that

00:17:39.700 she committed mortgage fraud and she might even be ensnared now in what you're saying

00:17:44.040 is too likely to be a grand jury investigation.

00:17:46.240 These are utterly different things.

00:17:48.200 Like, are the Democrats really going to go to war over the right of somebody who's ensnared

00:17:51.760 in criminal allegations that have a lot of evidence to support them?

00:17:54.360 The right not to stay out of prison, which I support, you don't go to prison until there's

00:17:58.200 a trial or be deported or whatever.

00:17:59.880 But to serve on this extremely important body that, you know, this is what I find so bizarre

00:18:05.100 is the eagerness of these people to cling to power.

00:18:07.940 Like apparently being on this board is so important to her that she's willing, it seems

00:18:12.480 like, to risk her liberty.

00:18:13.800 Like if she were to just go away, probably a lot of this case would go away too.

00:18:17.720 There'd be a lot less at stake.

00:18:19.440 But look at how much they cling to these positions, even though there's clearly evidence that they've

00:18:25.460 at least engaged in improprieties, if not outright crimes.

00:18:29.040 And that's what they're defending.

00:18:30.840 She never defends.

00:18:31.920 She never denied it.

00:18:32.800 She has not denied it.

00:18:33.860 All she's done is come out there and say, well, in one instance, it might have been a clerical

00:18:38.020 error through Abby Lowell.

00:18:39.520 That's the best she's gotten to, which is in effect an admission that it did happen, that

00:18:44.560 there is an incongruence on these documents about how many places were her primary residence.

00:18:50.960 By the way, that's not going to save her.

00:18:52.420 And if it were simply a clerical error, it would not have been made over and over and

00:18:58.640 over and always in a way that favored Lisa Cook's bottom line.

00:19:03.280 The other day when Ben Shapiro was here, we did a long discussion about, had a long discussion

00:19:08.080 about her many dishonest statements on her academic resume.

00:19:13.840 And so this woman, in my opinion, has a clear pattern of dishonesty.

00:19:18.080 I want to give you one more.

00:19:19.180 This is from the New York Times' daily podcast called The Daily on what her story is really

00:19:24.020 all about, because they too did a deep dive on Lisa Cook late last week, SOP 15.

00:19:29.080 Her most important research, Ben, as you said, was around what happens when you don't feel

00:19:36.100 safe and secure in your position, when your government doesn't protect you.

00:19:41.440 And I wonder what Professor Cook would say about the implications of that.

00:19:48.280 There is an irony here that in some ways, the person who has the most insight into this moment

00:19:55.140 in the U.S. economy, at least at the Fed, is Dr. Lisa Cook.

00:20:02.520 Not only when it comes to maybe the fear that government employees are feeling, but the fear

00:20:09.240 that people living in the U.S. in some cases are feeling right now, that people in immigrant

00:20:14.820 communities, that people who feel threatened in different ways, right, may be feeling right

00:20:19.140 now.

00:20:19.440 OK, so it's ironic that she, Lisa Cook, understands the plight of the illegal immigrants living in

00:20:28.740 fear right now as she herself gets targeted in the same way that these unlawful residents

00:20:36.780 are getting targeted.

00:20:38.000 The absurdity of this, Glenn, based on that lynching paper she did about how, thanks to

00:20:42.920 the culture of lynchings around 1900, black applications for patents went down, and then

00:20:49.840 it turned out that the whole study turned out to be bullshit, thanks to the reporting by

00:20:54.840 a couple of intrepid reporters who showed that the database for the patents, actually, that

00:20:59.080 she was relying on was not used at all.

00:21:01.420 She didn't even, like, it was out, it stopped being used in 1900 entirely, and she based her

00:21:05.960 research paper on that, which undermined all of her research.

00:21:08.620 And the New York Times is still holding her up as, like, the preeminent expert on what happens

00:21:12.820 in a disadvantaged minority community when the society all hates them.

00:21:17.540 So she understands it because she's black and she wrote this paper, and then she understands

00:21:21.320 what the minority immigrants are going through.

00:21:24.980 Just ask NBC and ask the New York Times.

00:21:28.460 I'm having trouble following it, but I think it all has something to do with being a minority

00:21:31.720 is good and old whitey is bad.

00:21:36.180 On the list of people, I know there's, like, a big competition in the United States to claim

00:21:41.020 marginalized victimhood status because that gives a lot of currency, like, not just social

00:21:45.580 currency, but also a lot of, like, political and financial currency.

00:21:50.020 On the list of people who might qualify as marginalized, vulnerable individuals, probably

00:21:54.680 last on my list would be people who are members of the Board of the Federal Reserve.

00:21:58.680 Like, the idea that she understands, like, what Emmett Till felt or, like, people who were

00:22:04.380 lynched by the KKK in the South felt because she might actually have to give up her extremely

00:22:10.620 powerful position because she committed mortgage fraud.

00:22:14.700 This is the, you know, it really, it's almost like going back, being catapulted back to 2020

00:22:18.660 to the extreme, most extreme excesses of woke ideology and discourse where because somebody

00:22:24.520 is black, automatically anything done against them is intrinsically suspect and inherently

00:22:30.480 racist.

00:22:31.420 And I also just want to quickly add, Megan, too, that, like, there's this now that there's

00:22:35.360 this bizarre pattern in our discourse where even though the Democrats spent eight years

00:22:41.520 dreaming and trying to imprison Donald Trump for everything from the Russiagate hoax to,

00:22:46.300 like, payments to Stormy Daniels of everything in between, suddenly now any attempt by the Trump

00:22:51.180 Justice Department to prosecute anybody is immediately depicted as political persecution.

00:22:56.500 They even defended John Bolton, even though it turns out that his case was considered very

00:23:01.480 grave by the Biden Justice Department.

00:23:03.520 And they don't care what the evidence against her is.

00:23:05.520 What they know is that she's black, that Trump doesn't like her, and therefore any attempt

00:23:09.380 to remove her is basically akin to lynching, which, lo and behold, she studied and wrote about.

00:23:13.880 So she ironically is now in the position that she used to teach about.

00:23:17.080 That is insane.

00:23:21.040 The left is so fun.

00:23:23.340 I'm sorry, but they're so fun.

00:23:25.600 Where would we be without these lunatics?

00:23:28.340 All right.

00:23:28.920 Speaking of lunatics, E. Jean Carroll is at it again.

00:23:34.100 Here's what's happening.

00:23:35.660 So she won a $5 million defamation case and sexual assault case against Trump.

00:23:41.060 And then she won this other defamation case against him in which him saying, I didn't

00:23:48.320 do this, she's a lunatic, was presumed by the judge to be defamation because there had

00:23:54.100 already been a jury finding that that kind of statement is defamatory in the other case

00:23:58.380 that she brought against Trump.

00:23:59.580 So the only question he really gave to the jury was, how much does this new denial entitled

00:24:04.520 E. Jean Carroll to?

00:24:05.440 And they said, $83 million because he's such a bad defamer, he needs to be taught a lesson

00:24:11.560 on how he never can say he didn't do this ever again.

00:24:16.560 The whole thing is so absurd as though when you're a man accused, you have an illegal obligation

00:24:20.780 not to say I didn't do it because that's defamatory toward the plaintiff.

00:24:26.060 And that once a civil jury, not even a criminal jury, a civil jury has said, we think you did

00:24:30.920 do it, you can never deny it again, or it's defamatory.

00:24:35.360 It's like, become law that you did do it.

00:24:39.520 It's just the whole thing is so nuts.

00:24:41.820 So Trump appealed, the one verdict is going to undo the other.

00:24:45.460 If he undoes the $5 million finding of sexual assault and defamation, the $83 million is going

00:24:50.380 to go away too, because that one is based on the finding of the jury in the smaller award.

00:24:55.260 Okay, so he's appealing now.

00:24:57.360 He appealed to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals.

00:24:58.960 They said, no dice, we're not persuaded.

00:25:01.380 And now he has until September 11th to file appeal before the U.S. Supreme Court.

00:25:05.520 He's just sought leave for a two-month extension on that because he's a busy man.

00:25:09.680 So we'll see whether the court gives him leave for a little bit longer to file an appeal.

00:25:14.360 But it does appear Trump's getting ready to take this up to the U.S. Supreme Court.

00:25:19.020 And the issues, you know, Glenn, they're not that dissimilar in some ways from what Harvey

00:25:23.460 Weinstein raised through our pal Arthur Idala.

00:25:27.960 And he did successfully get Arthur Idala's New York conviction overturned and got him

00:25:34.940 a new trial.

00:25:35.960 Didn't go that great, although he did better.

00:25:38.060 He did better for Harvey at the second trial.

00:25:39.620 Well, because the New York State Court of Appeals, our highest court, did say, you can't introduce

00:25:44.480 all these other women in there.

00:25:46.040 You can't, like, this is about the women who took the stand and said, Harvey did X to me.

00:25:49.980 This is not about a panoply of other women who aren't making those claims.

00:25:53.300 And allowing that stuff in really was prejudicial to Harvey.

00:25:55.920 And this is one of the arguments Trump is making that.

00:25:59.100 But it's in federal court.

00:26:00.260 It's not in New York State court.

00:26:01.860 He's saying, among other things, this verdict was messed up.

00:26:05.480 My trial was messed up because you let other women come in and take a stand against me,

00:26:09.960 thus poisoning my jury in an unfairly prejudicial way against me.

00:26:14.060 Your thoughts on it?

00:26:17.080 I saw yesterday where you commented on the ejection of the journalist Michael Tracy from

00:26:22.880 that Epstein press conference, and Michael Tracy is a, you know, yeah, totally.

00:26:28.540 And, you know, Michael Tracy is a common guest on our show.

00:26:31.040 He guest hosts our show.

00:26:31.800 He's a friend of mine.

00:26:33.060 I haven't agreed with everything he said on, he's done at Epstein.

00:26:35.280 But I'm really glad there's somebody there who's willing to kind of say, look, nobody's

00:26:39.340 going to defend pedophilia.

00:26:40.580 Nobody's going to defend Jeffrey Epstein.

00:26:42.600 Like, no one wants to defend Harvey Weinstein.

00:26:44.480 But at the end of the day, if claims are being made that are so far beyond the evidence

00:26:49.360 because of mob justice or kind of hysteria, it's crucial that that be reined in, or at

00:26:54.060 least it be questioned.

00:26:55.180 And for the crime of questioning, the fact that one of the key Epstein, you know, quote

00:26:59.800 unquote, survivors actually lied continuously and ended up having to retract it, including

00:27:04.100 against Alan Dershowitz, he was forcibly removed by the people who were running the press

00:27:09.020 conference, even though they invited journalists to come and ask questions.

00:27:12.100 She totally did.

00:27:12.520 The premise of his question was completely sound.

00:27:15.660 And it was a totally fair question.

00:27:17.320 There's zero chance he should have been ejected.

00:27:19.440 And actually, they should have answered it.

00:27:22.380 And they still should answer it.

00:27:23.960 And there's a lot of other interesting questions that he actually has been raising about some

00:27:27.660 of these people who are being called survivors.

00:27:30.060 Now, I only bring that up, even though you didn't ask me about it, because I think it

00:27:34.140 relates to that.

00:27:34.880 I actually have some sound effects cut on that side.

00:27:36.900 Let's definitely do that.

00:27:37.720 Let's absolutely do that.

00:27:39.340 But I bring it up just because I think what courts are starting to realize, including courts

00:27:45.060 that are not very sympathetic to Trump, I mean, he just had this big legal victory in the

00:27:49.300 intermediate court, the appellate court in New York State, obviously not pro-Trump, where

00:27:54.960 they said this, you know, verdict and this punishment that in the Letitia James case that

00:27:59.740 she brought against the Trump organization against Trump was wildly excessive.

00:28:03.260 And, you know, I think the same thing with the E.

00:28:06.620 Jean Carroll case like that, definitely, you know, Megan, when I practice law, I think

00:28:09.660 it's true of you, too.

00:28:10.400 I practice civil litigation.

00:28:12.340 I didn't, except on a few occasions, litigate criminal cases.

00:28:16.720 And I never once had seen a party to a lawsuit lose and then come out and say, I lost because

00:28:22.480 I was actually I did what I was accused of.

00:28:24.940 They always say I lost, but it was unjust.

00:28:27.140 I lost because but it was unfair.

00:28:28.720 I lost even though I didn't do it.

00:28:30.420 So essentially what you're really doing, if you're, you know, being sued in a civil litigation

00:28:35.400 and you lose and you continue to insist you shouldn't have lost because you didn't actually

00:28:39.280 do what you're accused of is you're basically calling the plaintiff a liar.

00:28:42.820 But I've never seen anybody be sued for defamation for contesting the outcome of a civil suit,

00:28:49.040 let alone be have imposed on them tens of millions of dollars in punishment and punitive

00:28:53.980 awards because simply because they deny it and they say, no, I was falsely accused.

00:28:58.980 A lot of things got invented for Donald Trump in terms of how the law works.

00:29:03.820 That case in Manhattan that by Alvin Bragg never in a zillion years would have even been

00:29:08.700 brought, let alone as a felony, had it been on anyone other than Donald Trump.

00:29:12.540 What we're starting to see is a recognition like once that hysteria passed, once that kind

00:29:18.260 of moral panic about Trump passed, that so much of what was done under the guise of the

00:29:22.820 law was in fact a complete bastardization of the law, which is so ironic that these same

00:29:27.560 people who did it are the ones constantly accusing the Trump Justice Department of doing

00:29:31.260 that, even when there's evidence that there's actually criminality, like for John Bolton

00:29:34.720 or Lisa Cook.

00:29:36.120 Totally.

00:29:36.940 All right.

00:29:37.120 Now, I want to continue this discussion, but we have to take a break.

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00:31:58.440 So E. Jean Carroll, she's won this, you know, basically $90 million against Donald Trump.

00:32:09.860 And she's been very obnoxious about it ever since.

00:32:14.180 Here's exhibit one when she went on Rachel Maddow after the big award, Sod 18.

00:32:19.540 Yes, I had such, such great ideas for all the good I'm going to do with this money.

00:32:28.920 First thing, Rachel, you and I are going to go shopping.

00:32:32.880 Rachel, what do you want?

00:32:33.840 Penthouse?

00:32:34.660 It's yours, Rachel.

00:32:36.680 Penthouse and France?

00:32:38.680 You want France?

00:32:39.920 You want to go fishing in France?

00:32:41.200 Although if me fishing in France could do something for women's rights, I would take the hit.

00:32:46.800 You know, I would obviously take one for the team.

00:32:51.580 Oh my gosh, so ridiculous.

00:32:53.100 Okay.

00:32:53.380 Rachel Maddow is all about women's rights until it comes to the trans issue, in which case

00:32:57.080 she's completely on the other side.

00:32:58.900 So you can take a seat.

00:33:00.100 Um, so E. Jean Carroll not only was out there celebrating all this money, like, do you want

00:33:04.540 France?

00:33:04.900 I'll buy you France.

00:33:05.900 But she now is going to be launching this documentary, um, that she says it's called Ask E. Jean.

00:33:15.000 It's going to, it did premiere at the Telluride Film Festival and, uh, Variety did an interview

00:33:19.320 with her on it in which she says she's really hoping her documentary will finish off Donald

00:33:25.440 Trump.

00:33:25.780 It's obviously personal between the two of them.

00:33:27.800 Um, and here is E. Jean Carroll just yesterday.

00:33:34.340 It's Wednesday.

00:33:35.020 Is it, is it just West?

00:33:36.480 Well, okay.

00:33:37.640 On, uh, back to the New York Times, they have something called the Modern Love Podcast.

00:33:42.720 She sat with them and listened to what she blamed Donald Trump for.

00:33:47.400 She's gone nuts.

00:33:48.740 Sot 16.

00:33:49.620 Just as a matter of course, the last sentence was, and I never had sex again.

00:33:53.520 It's the final line of your New York Magazine piece.

00:33:55.420 And that, and I just, because it was so much a part of my life, but to put it down was amazing

00:34:02.540 for me and Lori immediately calls me on that.

00:34:04.960 What?

00:34:05.340 You never, what?

00:34:06.480 Yeah.

00:34:07.400 Why?

00:34:08.080 Then she started saying, why, why?

00:34:11.200 Uh, so I came up with reasons, you know, well, I'm old and well, you know, and I'm well,

00:34:20.140 you know, so only one of them was the real reason.

00:34:23.440 And what was that?

00:34:26.080 Donald Trump.

00:34:26.680 Um, okay.

00:34:29.380 So obviously I'm being facetious saying she's gone nuts.

00:34:31.980 What I actually believe Glenn is she's obsessed.

00:34:37.800 Like, I think she's obsessed because she never even mentioned Trump.

00:34:42.940 She didn't come forward during the Me Too movement, you know, when it was in full flower.

00:34:47.800 And then finally she did belatedly.

00:34:49.700 And then they changed the law in part to help her bring this case.

00:34:52.160 But like for 30 years, she said nothing.

00:34:55.220 Then when she had a book to promote and Trump was running for president, then suddenly she's

00:34:59.840 like, oh, this happened to me.

00:35:01.480 And now she wants us to believe that for 30 years, she didn't have sex because of this

00:35:07.940 alleged incident that she couldn't even remember when it happened, even what year it happened

00:35:13.280 in.

00:35:13.460 I mean, these to me are obvious lies that are being like reworked in her head.

00:35:20.600 Like her whole life narrative now revolves around him because she's made him into such

00:35:27.120 a boogeyman.

00:35:27.860 And also he's parallel her paralleled her into fame.

00:35:33.660 You know, she's relevant and she's 81 and she's loving it.

00:35:37.100 Your thoughts.

00:35:37.820 And Rich, I mean, here's the thing, like just going back to that Rachel Maddow clip that

00:35:43.400 you played at the start, I totally get that people who go through bad things and traumas

00:35:49.300 like sometimes use humor as a way of coping with it.

00:35:52.040 I don't begrudge anybody that I'm not saying like something bad happens to you.

00:35:55.540 It means you walk around for the rest of your life, like totally miserable and humorless

00:35:58.580 and grim or whatever.

00:35:59.300 But if you are actually so traumatized by what Donald Trump did to you that you sue him and

00:36:08.700 you convince a jury that you deserve millions of dollars in damages, you do not go on television

00:36:15.180 immediately after and start giggling as though you've won the lottery unless that's really

00:36:20.480 actually how you see it.

00:36:22.200 I mean, there was no seriousness at all to what she was saying.

00:36:26.520 It was a celebration.

00:36:27.280 It was like, ha ha, Rachel, we got one over on him.

00:36:29.640 Let's use his money to go on a trip to France or I'll buy you a penthouse.

00:36:32.960 Even though Rachel Maddow already has multiple penthouses and goes on all the trips she wants

00:36:36.820 to France.

00:36:37.600 You know, it was like this kind of giddy celebration.

00:36:39.960 It was like the kind of way that someone speaks if they kind of impose some sort of trick or

00:36:45.760 deceit and got away with it.

00:36:47.620 Now they're just giggling with all the cash that they're throwing on themselves in their

00:36:51.540 apartment.

00:36:52.680 It was very much had that vibe.

00:36:53.920 And if you're saying like, hey, what I'm doing here is I'm standing up for other women

00:36:58.340 who had been silenced, even though they too were sexually assaulted and abused to the point

00:37:03.940 where they oppressed it or couldn't talk about it for years.

00:37:07.060 This is not the kind of demeanor that you would engage in.

00:37:09.860 That demeanor is for somebody who was on a political mission to center themselves and

00:37:14.560 promote themselves and make themselves rich and famous and got away with all of it and

00:37:18.240 then was on a very political program celebrating it.

00:37:21.100 That's that's the first thing.

00:37:22.200 The second thing is, I mean, I don't want to like judge too definitively with these sort

00:37:26.280 of things, but she's done like her voice was slurred.

00:37:28.160 Like she wasn't very coherent in that video.

00:37:29.960 Yeah.

00:37:30.160 You play it almost like it sounded a little bit like she would have been drinking.

00:37:33.260 Again, I'm speculating, but that's what it sounded like to me.

00:37:36.000 And yes, even if you believe everything that she claims happened to her, it was like a very

00:37:41.860 quick incident.

00:37:44.260 Like I'm not trying to minimize it, but I'm saying like, even if everything that that

00:37:48.700 happened is what she claims happened, I do not believe that that means that you never

00:37:53.740 have sex again for the rest of your life.

00:37:55.460 Like unless you have vested this with some kind of like wildly inflated importance.

00:38:02.240 I just, I don't believe that.

00:38:04.400 I just don't believe it.

00:38:05.620 And as you said, her identity has become this and it's became a gravy train, not just for

00:38:10.600 her, but for all, a lot of people got very rich, you know, posturing as some, as Trump's

00:38:16.100 victims or as, you know, Trump's enemies.

00:38:18.700 I mean, this is a gravy train for a huge number of people.

00:38:21.660 And she was one of the people like kind of driving the train and benefiting most from it.

00:38:25.840 Yeah, I completely agree with you.

00:38:27.320 I mean, like, I don't know why E. Jean Carroll chose not to have sex or didn't have the opportunity

00:38:31.000 to have sex for 30 years, but there is zero chance it was because of Donald Trump.

00:38:35.620 I mean, she's a very bizarre person.

00:38:37.280 You know, she was doing this column that had a, you know, a lot of like gender issues

00:38:41.480 in it and sex questions in it.

00:38:43.520 Like she was kind of very focused on sex.

00:38:46.160 Maybe she just got turned off from it.

00:38:47.780 I have no idea.

00:38:49.020 But she did this video with Elle where she showed off her, her house and like her pets.

00:38:56.000 It was very strange.

00:38:57.140 I would submit to the jury of the Megyn Kelly show.

00:39:00.280 This more explains why E. Jean Carroll hasn't been getting some than Donald Trump.

00:39:05.620 Here it is.

00:39:06.520 Sot 19.

00:39:07.860 I like to stay up late.

00:39:10.420 I like to sleep late.

00:39:12.180 And I like to live like 90 in between.

00:39:14.960 I get up around noon and I stagger outside at the store and I throw open my arms.

00:39:20.620 I thank God I don't have children.

00:39:22.920 I worry at night when I'm in bed because, you know, a line from me can change their life.

00:39:33.160 Now, whether it changes for the better or for the worse, I don't know.

00:39:36.880 I could not answer the questions coming into the Ask E. Jean Carroll if I was in New York City.

00:39:42.280 You can't think in New York if you're dating 16 people, which I would be doing if I were in New York.

00:39:46.980 I call it the Mouse House because some very distinguished mice live here.

00:39:52.800 Kahneman lives in the kitchen.

00:39:54.140 Taberski lives in the bedroom.

00:39:55.320 On the door are the list of my dogs.

00:39:57.660 Marky, Fortuna de la Spunky, Heidi, Tits, Bloody, and Hepburn.

00:40:05.720 What's the best piece of advice I've ever given?

00:40:07.740 What a horrible question to ask an advice column.

00:40:11.080 Oh, my God.

00:40:13.340 Eat, drink, and be married.

00:40:19.500 That's it.

00:40:22.460 She has a dog named Tits and a cat named Vagina.

00:40:26.180 I don't know.

00:40:27.680 Maybe some guys would like that with all the cats and the mice and the weird wig

00:40:33.140 and the self-isolation out in the middle of nowhere with her bizarre trailer labeled the Mouse House.

00:40:41.080 I'm going to say for most hetero guys, it would be a no.

00:40:44.520 You know, you and I both have to speculate on this front, Glenn, but I'm going to take a stab.

00:40:49.100 Yeah, I was about to say I do not profess to be the authority on what straight men find attractive in women.

00:40:55.780 But having known a lot of straight men, I even have like a lot of straight friends who are straight men,

00:41:00.600 this is not my image of what attracts a lot of people.

00:41:03.820 She's like out totally crazy, but like not even in a charming way.

00:41:07.640 And even like the background score they're playing kind of mocks her as she's doing it.

00:41:12.440 Like this is just like a batty woman.

00:41:15.660 And, you know, I think like people who are off key or kind of odd or idiosyncratic can be attractive.

00:41:23.420 But that's what I mean.

00:41:24.020 Like she just seems like crazy in a way that is very off putting the way she looks, the way she presents herself.

00:41:30.360 Who could even listen to that voice, let alone what's coming out of her mouth.

00:41:33.080 So I do believe now that she hasn't had sex in 30 years.

00:41:37.140 But I even doubt more now than I did like 10 minutes ago that the reason was was because of whatever happened with Donald Trump and that Bloomingdale's.

00:41:44.880 I don't know what the Supreme Court's going to do.

00:41:46.860 I tend to think they're not going to want to take it.

00:41:50.120 I don't think they want to get involved in this one.

00:41:52.120 They know that's going to be a big blow to the president.

00:41:53.940 But this is one in his individual capacity.

00:41:56.540 It's not has nothing to do with him being president.

00:41:58.840 He's actually being represented on it by his personal lawyers.

00:42:01.280 I just think that they're not going to have to take this.

00:42:04.160 So why would they want to?

00:42:05.540 But you never know if they do take it.

00:42:08.440 It's very good news for Trump.

00:42:09.640 And I do think they've got the grounds if they're bold enough to overturn it.

00:42:13.180 And then she won't be buying Rachel Maddow any penthouses.

00:42:16.380 Just because whenever we do this story, I must show this deposition clip.

00:42:19.840 It's really the greatest deposition clip of all time.

00:42:22.260 Speaking of the people who got rich off of E. Jean Carroll, her lawyer, Roberta Kaplan.

00:42:26.540 She cross-examined Trump at deposition about the famous Access Hollywood tape.

00:42:34.300 You can grab women by the P word.

00:42:36.380 And when you're a celebrity, a star, they let you get away with it.

00:42:39.360 And here is Trump in 17 at that depo.

00:42:43.420 I just start kissing them.

00:42:45.100 It's like a magnet.

00:42:46.420 Just kiss.

00:42:47.300 I don't even wait.

00:42:48.900 And when you're a star, they let you do it.

00:42:51.040 You can do anything.

00:42:52.820 Grab them by the pussy.

00:42:54.100 You can do anything.

00:42:55.160 That's what you said, correct?

00:42:55.940 Well, historically, that's true with stars.

00:42:58.600 It's true with stars that they can grab women by the pussy?

00:43:01.220 Well, that's what, if you look over the last million years, I guess that's been largely true.

00:43:06.840 Not always, but largely true.

00:43:09.940 Unfortunately or fortunately.

00:43:17.060 Or fortunately.

00:43:19.260 I mean, this is Trump's superpower.

00:43:21.500 Go ahead.

00:43:21.960 I'm sorry.

00:43:22.180 No, it's just the way it's been over the last million years.

00:43:26.340 It's a documented fact, Glenn.

00:43:29.000 I mean, I think this is like, yeah, like Trump is, you know, like a scholar of history.

00:43:33.160 And one of the things that he is specialized in is the prerogative of stars and what they

00:43:37.920 can do with women without without asking.

00:43:39.840 And so he has concluded based on his long decades of scholarship.

00:43:43.000 No, but I think like, you know, this is Trump's superpower is that he will say things that not

00:43:51.000 only most people think, but does have an obvious ring of truth to it.

00:43:54.060 I mean, everybody, you know, Henry Kissinger once put it far less crudely, but, you know,

00:43:58.160 he said power is the ultimate aphrodisiac.

00:44:00.380 Like that's, you know, because Henry Kissinger was not exactly known for his great looks or

00:44:03.920 his eloquent behavior, but he had women lined up around the, you know, corner always for

00:44:08.140 him because of his status and power.

00:44:10.420 And this is just part of how human biology and human instinct works.

00:44:15.180 I'm not saying that that makes it right.

00:44:17.400 I don't think Trump there was saying that that's what makes it right.

00:44:20.540 But he is observing what clearly is, even though you're not supposed to say it, you're supposed

00:44:24.560 to pretend otherwise, an actual fact of how society functions between the sexes and in fact,

00:44:31.420 always has.

00:44:32.380 And there are tons of examples that prove that it's just so Trumpy in the way he says

00:44:37.180 it in such a casual way, not caring in the slightest that you're not supposed to and almost

00:44:40.740 relishing the fact that he knows you're not supposed to, but is doing it anyway.

00:44:44.120 And there's always like a certain element of truth to it.

00:44:47.380 And to actually add, or fortunately, unfortunately, that's just the way it's always been.

00:44:52.820 Or fortunately, it's actually not so bad for the people like me who are the stars.

00:44:56.700 I'm not making a judgment on it.

00:44:58.280 I'm not making a judgment on it.

00:44:59.400 In fact, I've kind of benefited from it.

00:45:02.060 So yeah, it is what it is.

00:45:04.040 I I'm sorry, but ever since I saw that, I just died.

00:45:07.840 I laughed so hard.

00:45:08.960 And because we're on it and why not?

00:45:11.640 Here's the second favorite clip from that same deposition.

00:45:14.220 When you said in that video that Ms. Leeds would not be your first choice, you were referring

00:45:21.780 to her physical looks, correct?

00:45:24.560 Just the overall, not my I look at her, I see her, I hear what she says, whatever.

00:45:30.240 You wouldn't be a choice of mine either, to be honest with you.

00:45:32.660 I hope you're not insulted.

00:45:34.060 I would not under any circumstances have any interest in you.

00:45:38.800 I'm being I'm honest when I say it.

00:45:41.380 She I would not have any interest in.

00:45:45.020 I like it's so classic Trump.

00:45:50.720 And yet he knows he's being insulting, but he's he's totally being honest.

00:45:55.120 By the way, I think Roberta Kaplan is a lesbian who has no interest in Trump either.

00:45:58.140 But it's just so classic Trump.

00:46:01.260 It's it.

00:46:02.000 And as you put it, it kind of is one of the things that made America fall in love with

00:46:06.580 him.

00:46:06.800 Totally.

00:46:09.860 I mean, look at the people we were presented with for so long.

00:46:12.940 You know, they don't even seem human.

00:46:14.220 Like I always go back to to Kamala Harris as kind of the ultimate example of somebody

00:46:18.940 who is just like, I'm sure Kamala Harris has something inside of her that's alive.

00:46:24.560 I should take that back.

00:46:25.900 I'm not sure, but I assume it's day.

00:46:28.140 But like when she presents herself in public, it's it's totally dead.

00:46:32.600 Like there's this like the words don't connect to anything.

00:46:35.340 You know, you can see the script of the consultants that she's reading from and memorized and then

00:46:40.140 it come out of her mouth.

00:46:40.960 There's no vibrancy to it.

00:46:42.680 And that's true of most politicians and the ones who have political talent like Bill Clinton,

00:46:47.100 whatever you think of him and Barack Obama and Donald Trump.

00:46:49.600 What makes them have that talent is their ability to kind of stir things in people, like to make

00:46:55.360 them feel something, to speak in a way that makes people think they're being authentic.

00:47:00.020 Even though case of Bill Clinton, he was a complete charlatan.

00:47:03.140 He had that ability.

00:47:04.440 Trump's superpower is that is who Trump is.

00:47:07.880 That thing that Trump said there is what everybody I know who knows Trump well will

00:47:12.020 tell you is how he speaks in private.

00:47:15.380 It's not even crude or malicious.

00:47:17.340 It's just like very kind of, yeah, that's how it is.

00:47:20.080 That's that's what I think.

00:47:21.980 And he's totally.

00:47:23.900 Go ahead.

00:47:24.520 Yeah, yeah, I do.

00:47:26.720 Like in a lot of cases, you know, it's not really a persuasive defense to sexual assault

00:47:32.760 or rape to say, oh, I don't even find her pretty because a lot of times rape is not

00:47:36.400 about sexual attraction, but about power and other kinds of war.

00:47:39.340 But in the case of Trump, you know, he has been notorious for, you know, womanizing with

00:47:45.560 a very specific kind of woman.

00:47:47.400 And it's like he's almost insulted that he's being accused of trying to have sexual interactions

00:47:53.920 with the woman he considers unworthy from his perspective.

00:47:56.840 And I think it resonates given who Trump is.

00:48:00.320 Exactly.

00:48:00.940 That that deposition clip, the second one was about Jessica Leeds, who claimed that he

00:48:05.520 groped her on an airport.

00:48:06.580 I've interviewed her.

00:48:07.560 And also she was allowed to testify at the trial against him by E. Jean Carroll.

00:48:13.640 So we'll see.

00:48:14.780 You know, New York state, they passed this law that gave a one year window to alleged sexual

00:48:20.620 assault victims, to bring up claims from 30 years ago, which was just a terrible idea.

00:48:27.220 There's a reason we had statute of limitations on these claims.

00:48:30.400 It's very hard for a man to defend himself 30 years after the fact.

00:48:34.000 Look what Brett Kavanaugh had to go through with Christine Blasey Ford.

00:48:38.020 Thankfully, he was a future Supreme Court justice in the making.

00:48:40.600 So he had all his little date books, even from when he was a teenager or a 20 year old.

00:48:45.020 But my point is that the whole system was so unfair and to make Trump pay this $90 million

00:48:51.780 judgment against this very bizarre, extremely kooky, and I would submit untrustworthy lady

00:48:59.200 seems nuts, especially given that it was a New York jury that hated Trump.

00:49:03.460 I was talking earlier about how so much of the law was just not only twisted, but in many

00:49:07.620 cases reinvented and fabricated with no real purpose other than to impose punishments on

00:49:13.180 or even lead to the imprisonment of Donald Trump.

00:49:15.340 And this is there's so many examples.

00:49:17.600 And this clearly was one of them, which is why I just find it so infuriating when Democrats

00:49:22.500 stand up and say the greatest threat that Trump poses to our democracy is that he weaponizes

00:49:27.820 the law against his political enemies when that's all that was done for eight years nonstop.

00:49:33.760 Yes.

00:49:34.240 OK, so on the subject of nuttiness around Donald Trump, I have time to squeeze this in before

00:49:39.020 the break.

00:49:40.060 Joy Reid and MSNBC or Katie Fang had a discussion on Katie Fang's podcast, and this is what came

00:49:48.880 out of it.

00:49:49.660 Look at this.

00:49:50.300 SOT 32.

00:49:52.040 He's got these magical doctors who claim that he was shot in the ear, but his ear, I guess,

00:49:56.660 grew back.

00:49:57.360 He had a Duplo bandage on one minute, no bandage the next.

00:50:00.220 We can't get a medical record from this alleged assassination.

00:50:03.480 He was supposedly shot.

00:50:04.780 We have nothing.

00:50:05.420 Where are the investigative records?

00:50:09.640 One day he slapped his maxi pad on his ear, the next day the ear is totally fine.

00:50:13.840 It's fine.

00:50:14.540 And I remember being in mainstream media, where we both used to work, saying, isn't it

00:50:19.160 odd that we've never asked for his medical records?

00:50:22.180 And I got in trouble for that, right?

00:50:24.180 So you're not allowed to even say, isn't that weird?

00:50:27.460 We have more records.

00:50:28.800 If I know more about the attempted Ford assassination, President Ford, than I do about Donald Trump

00:50:36.100 and the Daryl Ford thing happened when I was a child, we're getting nothing.

00:50:40.120 And the mainstream media isn't demanding his medical records.

00:50:42.880 They're not demanding anything.

00:50:44.460 They're terrified of this man.

00:50:46.020 And now that people are speculating that he might have died, we only get that online.

00:50:52.220 But mainstream media is acting like, everything's fine.

00:50:54.340 He seems fine to me.

00:50:55.060 OK, Joe Biden's FBI said Trump was struck by a bullet.

00:51:02.260 Joe Biden's FBI said Trump was struck by a bullet in the ear.

00:51:06.820 Guess that's not enough for them.

00:51:09.340 Also, his doctor came out and said he was shot in the ear.

00:51:13.860 And this is what I did to patch up the wound.

00:51:16.420 I don't what other record do they want to see?

00:51:18.440 What his blood pressure was when he was in the hospital for it?

00:51:21.080 Like they refuse to accept reality, Glenn.

00:51:24.280 They can't accept reality because the moment was so heroic for one Donald Trump.

00:51:30.480 I just realized now how much I miss Joy, like in a warped way, because it's she's really I mean, a lot of people on MSNBC deliver inane garbage.

00:51:38.620 But she really goes the extra mile in a way that you're special, even though, you know, her she's shocked.

00:51:43.120 But like, you know, at the end of the day, yes, we should know.

00:51:46.000 But like, let's indulge her conspiracy theory for a second.

00:51:50.480 There was an assassin.

00:51:51.980 There were bullets flying around.

00:51:53.560 There were people in the audience who were murdered.

00:51:55.720 And even if like whatever the theory is that like a piece of the teleprompter broke and was acted as a blade and like cut his ear.

00:52:04.420 The fact is that bullets were flying around.

00:52:07.140 He did end up bleeding profusely from the ear and stood up fearlessly in an amazing moment and pretty much demanded that the Secret Service say let him say let's fight.

00:52:15.940 So what would it even really change?

00:52:17.560 Like I get JFK conspiracy theories like it matters who shot JFK.

00:52:21.260 Right. But of course, the bullet went through Trump's ear.

00:52:23.980 But even if it didn't, like, why would people lie about that?

00:52:26.540 What would it prove?

00:52:27.440 What would it?

00:52:28.760 And also, she's blaming the media for not running headlines that Trump was dead.

00:52:33.040 She's like online independent media.

00:52:35.100 We're courageous.

00:52:35.740 We do it.

00:52:36.080 But the media pretended he was still alive.

00:52:38.760 And the nerve to be like, why isn't why isn't the media investigating this?

00:52:43.200 This health issue, this alleged health issue.

00:52:45.220 You know, this is something we should look into around Donald Trump.

00:52:48.000 OK, preacher, heal thyself.

00:52:50.560 Back in a second with more Glenn.

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00:54:03.320 Welcome back to The Megan Kelly Show.

00:54:08.860 Glenn Greenwald, host of System Update on Rumble, is back with me now.

00:54:14.280 Glenn, we mentioned it, so we might as well do it here.

00:54:16.700 There was this hearing yesterday held by Thomas Massey and Ro Khanna, a Republican, yes, but known these days chiefly as the Trump antagonist amongst the GOP.

00:54:30.980 And then Ro Khanna is a Democrat with alleged Epstein victims out on the steps of the Capitol, saber-rattling about how they were going to start naming names and, you know, they were going to provide their own Epstein list.

00:54:46.820 Later, we saw Massey say, okay, the ladies are going to get sued if they actually say these names, but we can't get sued if we say them pursuant to the speech and debate clause on the floor of the U.S. Congress.

00:54:59.400 So that's how we're going to handle it.

00:55:00.660 We're going to, like, repeat their information here.

00:55:04.360 Woman after woman stood up and, you know, gave disturbing testimonials about Jeffrey Epstein, stuff we've basically heard before.

00:55:14.380 And then there was this strange moment that I do think speaks to a broader problem in the whole Epstein case that came to light thanks to Michael Tracy, independent journalist who you mentioned,

00:55:27.180 who stood up and asked about the best-known Epstein accuser, Virginia Giuffre, maiden name was Roberts, and got shut down.

00:55:38.380 Here is that moment from yesterday in SOT 23.

00:55:41.360 Yeah, so you represented Virginia Roberts, who's great for years.

00:55:46.520 She eventually had to recant the allegations that she made against Alan Dershowitz.

00:55:50.980 She alleged that...

00:55:52.060 Don't answer.

00:55:52.760 Don't answer.

00:55:54.180 All right, next question.

00:55:55.420 Next question.

00:55:56.320 Thank you.

00:55:57.080 Who's next?

00:55:57.700 Why is it that she should be...

00:55:59.000 Yeah, no, we're not answering your question.

00:56:00.820 Anybody else?

00:56:01.740 To your question about the allegations, there's a simple answer.

00:56:06.240 Release the files.

00:56:08.020 Let the American public decide.

00:56:10.240 Instead of harassing...

00:56:12.060 Instead of...

00:56:13.000 I gave you your say.

00:56:14.880 Look, look.

00:56:16.280 She's a prominent individual among others.

00:56:18.080 You're hired by Dershowitz.

00:56:20.380 But, you know, even...

00:56:22.960 You've been heard.

00:56:29.000 You've been heard.

00:56:29.600 Shouldn't you tell the public about this?

00:56:30.920 You've been heard.

00:56:32.060 And even Alan Dershowitz...

00:56:33.380 Even Alan Dershowitz has to release the files.

00:56:35.700 Release the files.

00:56:36.740 That is the answer.

00:56:38.280 And that's what we're here for.

00:56:40.820 Okay, so what does that moment mean to you?

00:56:42.820 Because then they threw out Michael Tracy from the presser.

00:56:46.100 He got forcibly ejected from the event for that question,

00:56:50.880 for being too much of a pest on some of the credibility problems,

00:56:54.240 in particular of star witness number one, who has since passed.

00:56:58.540 Right, and just to be clear, this was not...

00:57:02.800 He wasn't there trespassing.

00:57:04.260 He was invited by Ro Khanna to come and ask questions and to participate.

00:57:08.700 It was intended to be a press conference,

00:57:10.060 which means you open it up to journalists.

00:57:11.940 Not that it's just journalists who are going to blindly recite

00:57:14.280 whatever you want them to say,

00:57:15.820 but even journalists who are going to do their job

00:57:17.840 and pose questions to you that might undercut the things

00:57:21.440 you want the public to believe,

00:57:22.560 or at least demand answers to them.

00:57:24.400 And, you know, look, I've known Michael a long time.

00:57:26.680 He's cantankerous and can be, you know, sort of very persistent.

00:57:31.460 One might say obnoxious, but let's face it,

00:57:33.480 that is a behavioral trait that a lot of good journalists possess

00:57:37.060 because sometimes it requires that, you know,

00:57:39.260 like you have to be kind of aggressive.

00:57:41.380 But in this case, he was behaving himself perfectly well.

00:57:44.180 That question was respectfully asked.

00:57:46.920 It was a premise that was completely truthful.

00:57:49.660 And before it was even done, those women started saying,

00:57:52.320 we're not answering that.

00:57:53.320 Ignore him, ignore him.

00:57:54.720 So, and as you say,

00:57:57.220 it wasn't just that they refused to answer the question.

00:57:59.000 It was that he was then physically and forcibly removed,

00:58:01.740 expelled from a press conference for the crime of asking an uncomfortable question,

00:58:05.820 which I do think calls into question the credibility of what a lot of these people were saying.

00:58:10.440 Because if you're there to-

00:58:12.180 Yes, is this a search for the truth or isn't it?

00:58:14.740 Go ahead.

00:58:16.460 Exactly.

00:58:16.900 And like, I think the problem with the Epstein case has become that,

00:58:21.180 at least from my perspective, is that there are important and interesting questions.

00:58:26.620 Like, how did somebody so extremely wealthy, how did he become that wealthy?

00:58:31.680 But also, how did someone so completely connected to the world elite continue to be that

00:58:38.220 even after he was forced to plead guilty to crimes, felony crimes for soliciting minors for prostitution,

00:58:45.160 usually a crime that would result in your instant expulsion from decent society,

00:58:49.100 and a far lengthier jail term than he had.

00:58:51.920 He got a very sweetheart deal.

00:58:53.320 What kind of ties did he have to foreign governments or domestic governments?

00:58:57.440 These questions are legitimate and have never been answered.

00:59:00.240 On the other side, though, this case has been wildly sensationalized,

00:59:03.520 including by a lot of people who are at the top level of the Trump administration,

00:59:07.140 who out of power over the last four years spent a lot of money,

00:59:10.140 a lot of time making a lot of money pounding the table,

00:59:13.040 accusing the Biden administration of concealing these documents to cover up very powerful predators.

00:59:18.200 And so you sort of have these two extremes competing with one another,

00:59:21.280 where the truth lies in between.

00:59:23.320 And I think the Epstein case has kind of become this proxy or stand-in

00:59:27.480 for the very valid distrust that people have harbored for a long time

00:59:33.480 about what globalists and what global elites really are doing,

00:59:38.140 what, you know, the kind of lives they lead,

00:59:40.240 the complete detachment that they have from the common citizen.

00:59:43.540 But you still want it to be grounded in the truth.

00:59:45.420 You still do want journalists, even when it's difficult.

00:59:47.880 You know how many times Michael Tracy gets accused of, you know,

00:59:50.480 raising skepticism because he's a pedophile

00:59:52.460 and wanting to protect pedophiles, which is absurd.

00:59:54.620 You want people kind of always, you know, pushing back a little bit and saying,

00:59:58.360 wait a minute, before the mob gets too carried away,

01:00:01.000 let's look at what the real evidence is.

01:00:03.220 And for the crime of doing that, he was kicked out of a press conference,

01:00:07.340 the supposed point of which was to disclose the truth.

01:00:10.140 That is, I'm sorry, but it was very wrong.

01:00:13.080 Like anyone who is a legit, quote, survivor or victim would be able to answer those hard questions,

01:00:21.780 would have no problem answering those hard questions.

01:00:23.840 And the fact that Virginia Giuffre has died does not mean we cannot question her story.

01:00:30.080 She herself admitted in her settlement with Allen when she dropped her claims against him

01:00:35.320 that she may have misremembered what actually happened in that case

01:00:39.940 because he essentially forced that admission from her

01:00:43.160 by providing all sorts of actual evidence, like, you know, plane tickets and so on

01:00:48.620 that proved he was nowhere near Epstein or his island, et cetera,

01:00:53.060 on the dates she said he allegedly had sex with her.

01:00:56.960 And so, in my opinion, she got away with far too much.

01:01:01.320 She actually should have been forced to pay some sort of a penalty for what she did to Allen.

01:01:05.880 And I don't know who else she lied about.

01:01:07.480 I believe she was an Epstein victim.

01:01:10.140 I actually do believe that.

01:01:11.660 But beyond that, I can't say.

01:01:13.540 I know that Virginia Giuffre lied.

01:01:15.100 She definitely lied a fair amount.

01:01:16.660 So, totally fair question.

01:01:18.400 This is like, it's just spun to this very Salem-y kind of place.

01:01:23.020 And everyone should have a big asterisk on everything they hear in this case.

01:01:28.300 Like, at this point, it feels like one large manipulation.

01:01:31.300 We'll do our best here to make sure that doesn't happen thanks to us or our cameras.

01:01:36.840 Okay, moving on, on the media front.

01:01:39.640 I've got to ask you about this report.

01:01:41.980 If there's one person who you disagree with vehemently on Israel,

01:01:45.780 I think it's fair to say it's Barry Weiss.

01:01:48.080 And you're a friend of mine, and she's a friend of mine.

01:01:50.600 But I think this is an interesting thing that's just happened.

01:01:52.980 Um, she's been reportedly, Dylan Byers of Puck News is a scoop.

01:01:58.440 This is his scoop.

01:01:59.940 Reportedly been offered between $100 and $200 million for the free press.

01:02:06.880 This is how Puck is reporting it.

01:02:10.140 David Ellison, the son of Larry Ellison, they just bought Paramount and CBS.

01:02:14.500 Uh, David, the son, who's only like 41, he made an offer for the free press.

01:02:19.760 It's expected to be well above the site's most recent $100 million valuation,

01:02:24.040 but well below the $200 million figure that was recently floated in the Financial Times.

01:02:30.240 That was an absurd ask, writes Dylan Byers.

01:02:33.560 The free press does $15 million in annual subscription revenue,

01:02:37.780 and Barry's politically charged content makes it hard to scale the advertising business.

01:02:41.440 Plus, there's no tech stack. It's all on sub-stack.

01:02:45.400 Either way, it will land Weiss a king's ransom just a little over five years after her dramatic departure from the New York Times.

01:02:51.900 The deal's not done yet, of course, but as a source with knowledge of the negotiations told me this afternoon,

01:02:56.140 it's on the one-yard line.

01:02:57.920 As part of the deal, he reports,

01:03:00.300 I'm told that David Ellison plans to give Barry Weiss a role at CBS News

01:03:04.140 that would, among other things, task his fellow millennial

01:03:07.180 with guiding the editorial direction of the division, the news division.

01:03:10.520 Barry's avowedly pro-Israel and anti-woke worldview,

01:03:14.920 you disagree with her on that first one, but agree with her on the second one.

01:03:18.140 You're not a woke person.

01:03:19.320 Not to mention her broadly shit-kicking anti-establishment disposition

01:03:22.900 would inevitably inspire blowback from various corners of the newsroom

01:03:26.960 and could dramatically change the editorial posture and reputation

01:03:29.400 of one of the most storied and certainly self-important institutions in American journalism.

01:03:34.080 For David, that's likely part of the point.

01:03:37.260 Your thoughts on all of this, Glenn?

01:03:39.420 There's a lot going on here.

01:03:43.200 I mean, I definitely do have extremely vehement disagreements with Barry on Israel,

01:03:46.480 to put that mildly, but I also have had interactions with Barry personally,

01:03:49.780 and I say what everyone who I've ever known has known her says,

01:03:52.840 which she's a very charming, nice person.

01:03:56.860 It's very hard to dislike Barry personally.

01:03:58.940 So for me, at least, it's not about that.

01:04:02.740 Very bright, too. Extremely bright.

01:04:04.720 And I actually wrote one of the very first articles when she was hired from the New York Times

01:04:08.400 by the Wall Street Journal because all the liberals were enraged that Brett Stevens was being put on the op-ed page.

01:04:12.960 And I was like, Brett Stevens, he's just like a normal, run-of-the-mill, conservative, neocons.

01:04:18.540 But Barry is an extremely shrewd person.

01:04:20.660 She understands how the discourse works, and I guarantee you she'll be the more consequential hire there,

01:04:24.880 which I do think Barry is extremely shrewd.

01:04:27.660 And she has built the free press into something successful.

01:04:30.700 The issue for me is, you know, and I'm also a huge proponent of, like, new media

01:04:37.180 and clearing out the old corporate media generation.

01:04:40.440 I mean, that's what my career has been based on, is I grew out of new media and blogs and all of that.

01:04:46.340 So I'm always happy to see that.

01:04:48.340 I think the issue here, though, is that you cannot ignore the politics here.

01:04:53.520 So the previous owner of Paramount and CBS was Sherry Redstone, the widow of Sumner Redstone.

01:05:00.500 And Sherry Redstone said after October 7th, her only interest became defending Israel.

01:05:05.220 She didn't care about journalism anymore.

01:05:06.600 She lost interest in Paramount and CBS, and that's why she decided to sell it.

01:05:10.580 She's selling it to Larry Ellison's son, which basically is what he is.

01:05:14.620 I mean, that's his primary accomplishment.

01:05:16.100 Larry Ellison is the founder of Oracle, extremely successful, one of the 10 richest people on the planet.

01:05:21.600 So he has, you know, billions of dollars to play with, his son does.

01:05:24.260 And he's buying Paramount and CBS News.

01:05:28.100 And the issue far and away that has been at the top of the agenda for the Ellisons, Larry Ellison and David Ellison,

01:05:34.600 when it comes to politics or philanthropy, is Israel.

01:05:37.120 And there has been controversy since October 7th about some of the stories 60 Minutes ran, supposedly too sympathetic to Gaza, too critical of Israel.

01:05:45.640 And now he wants to take Barry Weiss, who, again, I have respect for her accomplishments and success, but is what she has built anywhere near worth $100 million?

01:05:57.400 Go look at how many people listen to her podcast or how many people watch her videos on YouTube.

01:06:01.820 It is a tiny footprint. And to place her at the top of some kind of like editorial or ideological enforcement role at CBS when she so aligns with David Ellison on the issue that's of most of greatest importance to both of them is something that concerns me because I really believe in a media that is kind of divorced from clear cut agendas where the reporting is shaped by that.

01:06:27.200 I have no jealousy of Barry. I've done very well in journalism. I'm thrilled for her that she has. I really like her wife, Nellie, as well. I like both of them.

01:06:34.720 But I do think there are things to question in this deal in terms of exactly why it's happening and exactly what it will entail in terms of Barry's influence over CBS News in particular.

01:06:46.700 That's very interesting. My own feeling on it, what I saw was it's like Barry's doing well with the free press.

01:06:53.180 She's got a lot of investors who she's doing a good job for, and they'll probably take a hefty amount of that money.

01:06:59.000 But to me, this feels like somebody comes up to you and says, I've got this beautiful ship I'd love for you to captain.

01:07:05.980 It's absolutely gorgeous. You might even call it unsinkable.

01:07:09.380 It's going to set sail on the Atlantic. We're going to head north into the Arctic area.

01:07:14.700 There may be a couple of icebergs. I'm sure you'll be fine. Here's here's the wheel.

01:07:18.740 Like, why would you go into mainstream media right now?

01:07:25.600 Like, it's dead. It's dying. It absolutely is on track for the iceberg.

01:07:30.720 I just don't understand the allure, and I really don't understand the allure to go to a television network, which is not Barry's background at all.

01:07:40.860 And it's for me, and I really love Barry and Nellie, too.

01:07:45.000 I worry they're going to eat her alive because CBS is among the worst when it comes to being insular.

01:07:54.420 Like, you have to be raised at CBS to be respected by the CBS people.

01:08:01.000 Ask Katie Couric if you don't believe me. Ask Katherine Herridge if you don't believe me.

01:08:06.740 You know, to whatever you think of Katie Couric, within that circle, she would certainly be considered one of the most storied, established journalists of modern times.

01:08:14.840 And they hated her guts that she didn't rise up within CBS and she didn't come from the evening news and all that crap.

01:08:21.000 Um, there's no way they're going to respect somebody who did a stint at the Journal and the Times and then went off into independent media as a television editorial boss.

01:08:30.980 And I'm sorry, but they're also not going to respect somebody who's young and a woman because CBS is not built that way.

01:08:37.540 Again, ask Katie Couric. Ask Katherine Herridge. I've watched it happen time after time.

01:08:42.280 So I just don't get the allure. Like, are we on an independent media train where we're, like, creating and building something new that matters and is really going to replace these dinosaurs?

01:08:54.480 Or are we going back into the dinosaurs to try to somehow put the paddles on them and continue to ask for a charge when the patient has long since expired?

01:09:06.600 Yeah, such a good point. Um, I'll just give you this quick anecdote. You know, I founded The Intercept in 2013 and we did so with Pierre Omidyar, the multibillionaire founder of eBay.

01:09:18.840 And at the time, he was strongly considering buying The Washington Post for the same amount he invested in in the media company that we created, which was $250 million.

01:09:27.100 And ultimately, Jeff Bezos bought it instead. And I remember him telling me he wanted to buy The Washington Post to change it, but realized that with an institution that kind of longstanding, that kind of ossified, even if you buy it, you're the owner, it's extremely difficult to change it.

01:09:43.300 He decided it would be just better to start something from scratch that he felt he could put his imprint on.

01:09:49.100 And I do think while I do, you know, I did express the concern that Barry's going to go there and exert a lot of influence.

01:09:55.140 I think more likely is what you said, which is kind of like the rotted roots of CBS, even with new ownership, probably telling her she'll be protected or whatever,

01:10:03.720 is more likely to consume her and change her and the free press than it is the other way around.

01:10:08.880 And also, I think you're so right. This is a dying medium, not just cable, but network news.

01:10:14.800 Like, I have never heard anyone under 40 being like, hey, did you catch 60 Minutes, you know, the other night?

01:10:19.040 That's not where they get their news from.

01:10:21.460 And Barry has created something, whether I like it or not, that is extremely influential because of its independent.

01:10:28.820 And I have seen people go in the reverse way, like you and Tucker, for example, were freed when you finally got out of working for a major corporation.

01:10:37.080 And I had that same experience.

01:10:39.440 Like, even if you don't realize the constraints that are there, they're still there, just going to work there every day.

01:10:43.680 Why would you want to sacrifice the incredible freedom and liberty that you have of being your own boss and having this great influence

01:10:49.960 to go basically become an employee of a stodgy old corporation that seems to be more dying than it is rejuvenating?

01:10:57.380 Maybe it's just the allure of a brand name job, but I don't really think Barry is the kind of person who, yeah, yeah.

01:11:04.740 I think she's going to hate it.

01:11:06.220 They're going to be nasty bitches to her.

01:11:09.560 And I use that term in a non-gendered way.

01:11:12.280 I think they're going to be terrible to her.

01:11:14.000 I think she's doing something really exciting right now, and she is succeeding.

01:11:19.060 And fine, the exit plan, if she wants to sell the free press, I have no judgment on that.

01:11:22.860 I'm sure she could build something else awesome from scratch.

01:11:27.060 And she's got a lot of investors who love her because Barry's liberal.

01:11:30.520 I mean, she's more of a, you know, old school liberal and she's not woke.

01:11:34.920 So she's safe, you know, because a lot of these leftist investors, they love that kind of they're not woke either.

01:11:41.440 They can't say it publicly.

01:11:42.360 They love the things that she writes that are non-woke, but they still don't like Trump.

01:11:46.360 So Barry's a great investment for them.

01:11:48.560 And they probably would get behind any new publication or project that she would put out there.

01:11:53.040 But this just is not it.

01:11:54.700 Honestly, Glenn, I can tell you truly, if anybody, if Fox News came to me tomorrow and said, would you come in and head up editorial or any other organization, you know, come in and help us.

01:12:06.420 It may be like an ABC or CBS and like help us right the ship.

01:12:09.940 I would say, no, thank you.

01:12:11.480 No, thank you.

01:12:12.320 I've already gone into these networks and seen the hatred they have for people who are genuinely not of the left.

01:12:18.800 And for outsiders, which Barry 100 percent will be considered, notwithstanding her liberal bona fides card.

01:12:26.820 And they're miserable places to be.

01:12:29.660 CBS is notorious for how unhappy everyone is.

01:12:35.620 So I just think like why it's so wonderful to be independent, not to have these corporate bosses.

01:12:40.420 You and I are in this great place where if somebody loves our product, maybe we'll license our product to them.

01:12:45.500 That's fine.

01:12:45.960 They don't own us.

01:12:46.680 It's like whatever.

01:12:47.680 But there's no way they own us.

01:12:50.280 You wouldn't give your editorial freedom up.

01:12:52.220 I wouldn't give my editorial freedom up.

01:12:54.200 And you go and join one of these organizations and they're the ones who control you, not the other way around.

01:12:59.900 Right.

01:13:00.420 Even if you're being promised, which I'm sure Larry Ellison's son is promising her.

01:13:04.160 No, like you're going to go there.

01:13:05.240 You're going to have total, absolute freedom.

01:13:07.120 The nature of a corporation does not is not consistent with that kind of freedom.

01:13:11.860 You have too many factions, too many power centers to please.

01:13:14.740 There's no way that you can go there with all the people around you from the top and the bottom insisting that you act a certain way, that you stay within certain lanes.

01:13:22.940 Look what happened to Chris Litt at CNN.

01:13:24.360 Exactly.

01:13:26.820 I mean, he just tried to, like, modify it a little bit.

01:13:29.100 Like, hey, let's not be the spokesperson and the arm of the DNC.

01:13:33.280 Let's get back to what made CNN successful.

01:13:35.760 And he was gone in an instant because there was a huge internal uproar over it.

01:13:39.580 And she was driven out of the New York Times because of that, you know, this, like, very catty high school behavior of, like, sniping at her on Slack.

01:13:47.960 And, you know, that's what she left.

01:13:49.900 And she, again, for better or worse, I would say for worse, but for better or worse, she created something genuinely influential that she runs.

01:13:56.760 That's her creation.

01:13:58.100 Why go give that up and work?

01:14:00.040 And I can see if CBS were still this, like, major powerhouse of, like, the 1950s and we were, you know, in the area of three networks.

01:14:06.820 Oh, you get to run one network?

01:14:07.940 Great.

01:14:09.020 That isn't power anymore.

01:14:10.720 That's almost obscurity.

01:14:13.360 That's how I feel.

01:14:14.140 I hope she doesn't do it.

01:14:15.500 I want her to get her payout, so I'm kind of torn because I think she deserves all the riches.

01:14:19.680 And I hope she spends them well and enjoys her life fully with Nellie and now their children.

01:14:25.040 But I just think this is the wrong move.

01:14:27.620 She's not the right person for this job.

01:14:29.460 I can see why they want her.

01:14:30.700 I can see why they need her.

01:14:32.260 I don't see what she gets out of it other than, you know, the paycheck, which, okay, I'm not going to shake a stick at that because it is nice to have money.

01:14:39.140 And I'm sure Barry would love to have that cushion on her bank account.

01:14:43.600 So, anyway, all the best to her.

01:14:45.660 Words of caution sounded, and now we'll see how it shakes out.

01:14:49.220 Okay, let's keep going.

01:14:51.240 RFKJ was on the Hill this morning getting roasted by very annoying people.

01:14:56.900 I mean, back to Colorado's Senator Michael Bennett.

01:15:00.820 Angry, angry man who gets RFKJ in front of him.

01:15:04.720 This is the Finance Committee.

01:15:06.220 It wasn't the Oversight for Health and Human Services, but the Finance Committee.

01:15:09.360 So, it wasn't exactly the cast of characters that was there for his confirmation, though it was largely duplicative.

01:15:15.320 I'm trying to remember whether that's true.

01:15:17.300 In any event, here is Michael Bennett going after him because he's very, very angry that Kennedy dumped all these people who were working on the vaccine group at CDC and wants them replaced with other people.

01:15:33.740 People who, it's not that they're all vaccine skeptics, it's that what Kennedy says is they actually just want data.

01:15:41.000 They don't want to assume that babies need the Hep B shot when they are one hour old.

01:15:47.520 They want data to prove to them that's a necessary, quote, vaccine injection for a one-day or a one-hour year old.

01:15:55.740 And so, that's who Kennedy wants to put on this board.

01:15:58.460 In any event, here's Michael Bennett questioning him about it in Sot 5.

01:16:02.740 If your panel recommends changing the vaccine schedule for children, do you anticipate that fewer children will receive these common vaccinations, yes or no?

01:16:14.860 What I would say, Senator, is-

01:16:17.300 The obvious answer is yes.

01:16:18.800 Should parents and schools of Colorado be prepared for more measles outbreaks as a result of that, Mr. Secretary?

01:16:28.140 Senator-

01:16:28.660 How about more mumps outbreaks?

01:16:31.080 I don't know.

01:16:31.860 I do not anticipate a change in the MMR vaccine.

01:16:36.520 You know, AZIP is an independent panel.

01:16:39.000 So-

01:16:39.600 Well, it's a panel.

01:16:40.860 You just put those folks on.

01:16:42.820 Far from what you said, they're people with ideas that are completely outside the mainstream.

01:16:50.420 And you were never there complaining when the pharmaceutical companies were picking those people and then running their products through with no safety testing.

01:16:57.500 You can make, you can characterize it any way you want.

01:17:00.140 I quoted them today.

01:17:01.560 What I said was accurate.

01:17:03.520 What you said were lies.

01:17:05.460 Are you saying, Senator, are you saying that a DMR vaccine has never been associated with myocarditis or pericarditis in teenagers?

01:17:17.500 I am saying, I am simply-

01:17:18.680 Is that what you're trying to tell us?

01:17:20.100 I am simply trying to say that the people that you have put on that panel after firing the entire-

01:17:27.360 You're evading the question.

01:17:29.640 If you watch the whole segment, just Bennett's angry the whole time, spitting mad at him.

01:17:34.820 But I did think that was an interesting exchange because Kennedy gave as good as he got and was not taking it lying down, Glenn.

01:17:41.440 But clearly, they want his scalp.

01:17:43.520 They wanted it when he was in the confirmation hearings, which he did pass.

01:17:47.060 And they want it just as badly, if not more now.

01:17:50.280 Yeah, Bobby Kennedy grew up in the Oval Office.

01:17:52.700 You know, like, he's not going to be intimidated by people in Washington.

01:17:56.060 But I will say that what this- for me, what this shows is that these people can never come to terms with the radical failures of their, you know, venerated institutions and experts like what everybody saw happen throughout COVID in multiple different ways.

01:18:15.460 So they're basically saying, like, look, these are the experts that you have to stick with.

01:18:21.140 But Trump ran on a platform, and so did RFK Jr., of clearing them out.

01:18:25.480 And they think that these people that they consider the authorities, no matter how much they err, are always and permanently entitled to that status, no matter how much the American people conclude rightly that those people don't deserve to be listened to anymore.

01:18:38.520 And that change is radically needed.

01:18:40.080 The other thing I will say that's so interesting is that RFK Jr.'s primary critique of the health establishment is actually a very left-wing critique.

01:18:49.660 It's been very popular among the left for a long time, which is that it looks as though it's being driven by scientific conclusion.

01:18:57.320 In reality, these scientists are chosen and dominated by the drug companies who these scientists do the bidding for.

01:19:04.920 So whatever product these drug companies want to be approved or want to be mandated, these scientists who are, you know, in a lot of ways devoted to or controlled by the establishment of these drug companies does it.

01:19:17.060 And RFK Jr. is saying we need to remove these drug companies from the regulatory process.

01:19:22.100 They've captured the regulatory process, and we need independent minds here to separate themselves from the drug industry to make assessments, not based on the profit of the drug companies, but based on the actual health needs of the American people.

01:19:36.160 And that is a critique that, for me, is extremely compelling, and it's even more compelling by the fact that we've watched for five years the worst epidemic of our lifetime.

01:19:45.180 These scientists get pretty much everything wrong and lie constantly.

01:19:48.640 And the fact that they still think they're entitled to permanent power status shows what the kind of entitlement mindset is of the Michael Bennetts of the world.

01:19:57.260 Yes, and on the same line, you had Virginia Senator Mark Warner, who tried to get you, he had to try to got you question with him about how many people died from COVID.

01:20:09.900 Now, everybody listening to our voices right now knows the asterisk that you would have to put behind any such number, because we all know the hospitals were overstating the deaths.

01:20:22.680 The hospitals got more money, depending on the patients who were there, and you could go in with a gunshot wound to the heart, but technically a pulse.

01:20:32.920 And if you died two hours later, but they tested your corpse positive for COVID, they'd say it was a COVID death.

01:20:39.540 It was insane.

01:20:40.900 There was great reporting on this.

01:20:43.240 David Zweig did a lot of really important pieces on all of this.

01:20:46.660 And so that's why JFK, or RFKJ, in this clip you're going to see, hesitates, but Virginia Senator Mark Warner thinks it's absolutely knowable and tried to cross-examine him with this gotcha in SOT 6.

01:21:03.500 Do you accept the fact that a million Americans died from COVID?

01:21:08.260 I don't know how many died.

01:21:10.840 You're the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

01:21:12.940 You don't have any idea how many Americans died from COVID?

01:21:17.660 I don't think anybody knows that, because there was so much data chaos coming out of the CDC, and there were so many perverse incentives.

01:21:27.700 And these are models.

01:21:28.960 You don't know the answer of how many Americans died from COVID.

01:21:32.600 This is the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

01:21:35.180 Do you think the vaccine did anything to prevent additional deaths?

01:21:39.200 Again, I would like to see the data and talk about the data.

01:21:45.060 You have had this job for eight months, and you don't know the data about whether the vaccine will save lives?

01:21:50.700 No, and the problem is that they didn't have the data.

01:21:53.540 The data by the Biden administration is absolutely dismal.

01:21:57.540 It was a data chaos.

01:21:58.420 So who is politicizing?

01:22:00.020 You're saying the Biden administration politicized all the data?

01:22:03.240 Go back to what Sarah Cantwell just said.

01:22:05.140 They fired Dr. Krauss.

01:22:06.340 Go to the Trump surgeon general.

01:22:08.200 They fired Dr. Krauss.

01:22:09.780 They fired all the people who questioned the orthodoxy.

01:22:12.680 How can you be that ignorant?

01:22:14.320 And just to add to that, Glenn, you've got now the woman who headed up the CDC, Dr. Lisa or Susan Menares, who wrote an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal today taking aim at RFKJ.

01:22:31.340 I was fired after 29 days because I held the line and insisted on rigorous scientific review, and she goes through.

01:22:38.660 He pressured me to resign.

01:22:40.780 I was really just trying to hold the line on science around vaccines, you know, basically suggesting, like, Kennedy's not into them, and he should be because they're lifesaving.

01:22:51.720 None of these people are realizing the absolute collapse of trust we've had in these organizations and that this whole, like, trademark the science thing is not working on the vast majority of the American people anymore.

01:23:07.340 Well, also, like, this question of, like, how many deaths, the point they're trying to make is that COVID killed a huge number of people, and it killed a lot more people in the United States than in virtually every other country, if not every other country, by percentage, which, okay, let's assume that's true.

01:23:21.300 Like, huge numbers of people died of COVID in the United States.

01:23:23.620 The people who were in charge, it wasn't really Biden or Trump.

01:23:26.500 It was the scientific establishment that has run science and health policy in the United States for decades.

01:23:32.540 It was Tony Fauci and everybody on down.

01:23:34.900 They all got their way with everything.

01:23:36.420 These moronic policies of masks and forced vaccines, and remember that idiotic six-foot social distancing, which turned out to be a complete joke, school lockdowns without regards to the consequences, lies about the origins of COVID.

01:23:51.240 Everybody understands, except these people in Washington, that the people that they want to venerate as the experts who you cannot question, who you cannot touch, that if you question at all, you're being unscientific.

01:24:01.660 It was those people who radically failed, and they didn't just fail because of error that was understandable.

01:24:06.880 They failed because of arrogance and deceit.

01:24:09.020 They banished any questioning up to the point where you got banned from the internet if you questioned any of these orthodoxies, including many of which that turned out to be completely false, not just questionable.

01:24:18.860 So the anger and arrogance that they continue to maintain, like how dare you question these numbers that have been handed down from Mount Olympus when so much of what they handed down turned out to be false, shows the kind of insularity that they cannot lose.

01:24:34.020 It's like they just don't understand the American people, don't trust them in these institutions any longer, including science, and for good reason.

01:24:42.100 Yes, my gosh, yes, so well said.

01:24:44.380 It's infuriating because I watch that.

01:24:46.340 My basic takeaway is if RFKJ doesn't like Susan Menares, neither do I.

01:24:51.960 Goodbye.

01:24:52.420 I don't trust her.

01:24:53.080 He was put in there to blow things up and do things differently and restore trust in these institutions and quickly realized, even though he'd worked with her for a couple months and apparently thought she was okay because she got confirmed, changed his mind.

01:25:06.220 Fine.

01:25:06.620 He's the head of the group.

01:25:08.320 He's at the top of HHS.

01:25:10.240 Sure, it's a pain in the ass to have to confirm somebody new.

01:25:12.840 I don't care.

01:25:14.080 Martin Kulldorff would be amazing.

01:25:16.940 He's brilliant, part of the Great Barrington Declaration, one of the few who was honest.

01:25:20.720 From Harvard, the left should love him.

01:25:23.080 But because he joined in that, you know, focused protection pitch, they don't.

01:25:28.840 Here is RFKJ in an exchange with Senator Ron Wyden, who also hates his guts, of Oregon, having a contentious exchange about that op-ed by Menares in The Wall Street Journal.

01:25:39.580 And RFKJ speaks to it a bit.

01:25:41.400 Sot 3.

01:25:42.560 She was told to pre-approve the recommendations of a vaccine advisory panel filled with people who've publicly expressed anti-vaccine rhetoric.

01:25:52.180 Did you, in fact, do what Director Menares said you did, which is tell her to just go along with vaccine recommendations, even if she didn't think such recommendations aligned with scientific evidence?

01:26:05.160 So you have an opportunity to call her a liar?

01:26:07.860 I never said that.

01:26:09.020 So she's lying today to the American people in The Wall Street Journal.

01:26:13.280 Yes, sir.

01:26:13.780 OK, so one way or the other, we're going to have a hard look at vaccines and whatever they do, where they can give them a hard time about Menares.

01:26:24.980 One way or the other, Glenn, we are going to take a hard look at these vaccines and have an actual debate about whether they're safe and effective.

01:26:33.960 Kennedy's already doing it.

01:26:35.020 And these people are going to do their level best to stop it however they can.

01:26:39.160 They don't want it.

01:26:40.080 They just say it's settled science.

01:26:41.780 We can't have these discussions.

01:26:43.420 I don't think they're going to win this time.

01:26:45.260 Your thoughts?

01:26:45.680 I mean, the aspect of the clip with Bennett, the first one we showed that I thought was very revealing that we didn't mention, was RFK Jr. was saying, are you trying to deny the link between the COVID vaccines and myocarditis?

01:27:02.020 Which, if you recall, and I'm sure you do, anyone who raised that, people were on Joe Rogan raising it, Joe Rogan himself was raising it, they were called anti-vax.

01:27:11.500 There can be a link between vaccines and myocarditis, and still, on the whole, the vaccine might be still desirable because the benefits outweigh the risk.

01:27:23.240 But to simply deny the truth or to insist that everybody lie because questioning the vaccine might lead others to be more skeptical about it, that's the kind of really condescending deceit that has characterized elites in the United States for way too long.

01:27:37.300 And, of course, Bennett won't now acknowledge or even address the question because we know there's links between the COVID vaccine and myocarditis.

01:27:45.000 But at the time, it was so vehemently denied that anyone who raised it was treated as almost a criminal.

01:27:50.060 I don't think RFK Jr. has all the answers.

01:27:51.840 I don't think his scientists, the one he favors, should also have this unanimous ability to implement policy without debate and be questioned.

01:27:59.060 But I don't think he's asking for that.

01:28:01.120 He's saying we need a shakeup in the health policy institution because of how wrong they've been in so many corrupt ways.

01:28:09.160 And that's what offends people in Washington whenever you question establishment prerogatives.

01:28:13.880 And that's what the American people hate most about Washington is the establishment.

01:28:17.640 And Democrats are always in the position of defending it, as are many Republicans.

01:28:21.240 But Democrats have almost tied themselves to the establishment.

01:28:24.560 They think any questioning of it is almost like irreligious, you know, or some kind of sin, even though the public has turned against these people completely.

01:28:35.700 They've lost us.

01:28:36.740 They lost us long ago.

01:28:38.060 They lost us in part because they put guys like this in charge of our vaccine policy.

01:28:42.820 Here's that Dr. Dimitri Daskalakis on with Caitlin Collins the other night on CNN.

01:28:47.800 Sod 11.

01:28:50.140 For my entire career, been an advocate for the LGBTQ community through my work in HIV, through my work in MPOCs.

01:28:58.940 I find it outrageous that this administration is trying to erase transgender people.

01:29:05.100 I very specifically use the term pregnant people and very specifically added my pronouns at the end of my resignation letter to make the point that I am defying this terrible strategy at trying to erase people and not allowing them to express their identities.

01:29:23.440 So I accept the note from the press secretary and counter that with I don't care.

01:29:32.600 That's the Biden administration's idea of science.

01:29:35.620 Pregnant people.

01:29:36.680 That's who we should be listening to, according to the Ron Wyden's and the Michael Bennett's of the world.

01:29:41.300 You know, I have to say, like, I lived through the gay rights movement, which basically succeeded in all of its forms way beyond what anyone actually thought was possible.

01:29:52.220 And I believe the reason for that was that there were constant debates like Americans are basically, in my view, good people who are open minded and they might have ideas because they've been taught to have ideas.

01:30:04.820 And the more you engage with people, the more they see the reality of things, the more the more just kind of accepting they become like we're not interested in controlling other people's lives.

01:30:13.340 I really believe that would have been the trajectory of trans people.

01:30:17.140 And actually, it had been the trajectory of trans people.

01:30:19.280 No one really cared about trans people.

01:30:21.580 They've been around for quite a while.

01:30:23.680 They've had victories in terms of legal rights until this sort of mentality started dictating, like, how dare you question anything?

01:30:30.360 The minute you question anything, you're an evil person.

01:30:32.380 We're going to shove this down your throat.

01:30:33.980 We don't care if you understand it.

01:30:35.340 We don't care if you agree with it.

01:30:36.580 We're going to subject your kids to it.

01:30:38.460 That is exactly what, in most cases, the gay rights movement avoided.

01:30:41.960 It was much more about engagement and persuasion and debate.

01:30:45.680 And unfortunately, like, a lot of the modern day left does not believe in any of that.

01:30:49.780 They have this very imperious attitude that they're going to force people even to change their language and their most fundamental beliefs, not through persuasion, but through dictate.

01:30:59.180 And when you do that to people in general and Americans in particular, we're still endowed with this kind of, like, we have the right to think what we want and do what we want.

01:31:06.440 All you're going to do is create massive backlash.

01:31:08.480 And in so many ways, what they claim to be so afraid of is their own creation.

01:31:13.100 Yeah.

01:31:13.440 As soon as you say pregnant people, I'm out.

01:31:15.100 You're not a scientist.

01:31:16.080 You can't lecture me on science.

01:31:17.740 You've lost me.

01:31:18.600 And I speak for millions.

01:31:20.160 Last one, Ron Johnson, who spoke some sense and was one of the only ones today in SOT7.

01:31:25.560 Here's the facts.

01:31:30.160 The VAERS system that was touted in October of 2020, this great safety surveillance system on COVID.

01:31:38.060 A few months later, when they didn't like the results, they started denigrating their own system.

01:31:43.320 But VAERS shows that there have been 38,742 deaths reported on VAERS worldwide associated with the COVID vaccine.

01:31:52.960 38,742.

01:31:54.820 9,252 of those deaths occurred on the day of vaccination within one or two days.

01:32:03.460 He's a hero.

01:32:04.740 He's been so great on all things related to health and COVID and Maha.

01:32:10.380 Like, thank God he's there, Glenn.

01:32:13.360 I'm going to take a quick break.

01:32:14.780 I got to come back.

01:32:15.640 There's something insane that we have to discuss, but I'm going to do this break and then we're going to come back on a lighter note.

01:32:20.300 I think you'll enjoy it.

01:32:21.500 Let's be honest.

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01:32:29.040 What was I saying?

01:32:29.880 Oh, yeah.

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01:34:05.980 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.

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01:35:06.940 Back with me now, Glenn Greenwald.

01:35:14.140 Okay, Glenn, so we've now got the official write-up from the left on marriage and whether it's worth your time.

01:35:22.900 This is written on MSNBC by someone named Christina Wyman, and here is the headline.

01:35:29.680 Taylor Swift's about to find out what a lot of married women already know.

01:35:35.080 So, hat tip, marriage sucks is where she goes with this piece.

01:35:40.500 I'm going to give you some excerpts.

01:35:42.220 I might be the only one who's not bursting at the seams with unbridled joy over Taylor Swift's engagement news.

01:35:49.640 To be sure, romantic love is real.

01:35:52.500 Science believes it lasts for about two years tops.

01:35:55.040 But science has also discovered something else.

01:35:57.060 When it comes to hetero unions, men stand to benefit much more than women do from marriage.

01:36:03.440 And it is widely known—okay, that's her sourcing—widely known that single women are thought to be happier than their married counterparts.

01:36:12.800 That's a complete lie, Christina Wyman, completely untrue.

01:36:17.700 The studies show exactly the opposite.

01:36:19.860 Not to say you can't be a happy person as a single woman, but the data show you're more than twice as likely to be happy if you're married with kids.

01:36:27.780 Our first four years of marriage, she says about her own, turned out to be the hardest of our relationship.

01:36:34.440 She goes on to say a bunch of bad things about marriage.

01:36:37.120 And I keep waiting for her to get to the part where they get divorced.

01:36:39.920 No, they don't get divorced.

01:36:40.720 She's still married to this person about whom she's going to say a bunch of terrible things.

01:36:44.200 There's nothing magical about marriage.

01:36:45.960 Nothing.

01:36:46.720 Not one thing.

01:36:48.020 Even for the happiest couples.

01:36:49.520 Nothing magical about it.

01:36:52.160 Just know that.

01:36:53.720 My spouse and I do share a lot of happy moments and copious laughter, for which I'm grateful.

01:36:59.080 We love each other fiercely and work hard to give each other good lives.

01:37:02.540 But, here's the capper.

01:37:04.100 Despite our love and commitment to each other, most of our days together are marked by drudgery, negotiation, mild arguments, odd smells, and tedium.

01:37:15.860 With a healthy dose of mind-numbing irritation that has made me want to throw in the towel more times than I can recall.

01:37:23.580 I have no doubt he's experienced the same because we talk about it.

01:37:27.380 She goes on to say, they're in couples therapy, working out the very real and sometimes deal-breaking kinks.

01:37:35.040 Marriage is rife with such realities, and celebrities don't get a pass on these basic truisms.

01:37:40.620 This is the funniest thing, Glenn.

01:37:43.480 I know you are a widower and that you had a happy marriage.

01:37:47.920 I could not relate to this piece less.

01:37:53.300 I think what's really happened to poor Christina is she's married to the wrong person.

01:37:58.020 Clearly, her husband has married the wrong person.

01:38:00.540 It's never going to work out.

01:38:01.980 Here's a pro tip for you.

01:38:03.220 You should just cut your losses now and find new spouses or move on and be the lonely woman who you wish to be, Christina.

01:38:08.700 Because there are many of us who would argue there's plenty that is magical about marriage if you choose the right person.

01:38:17.040 It can be utterly life-changing for the better.

01:38:19.800 It can lift you up in everything you do.

01:38:22.240 Not to mention then adding children to the mix, which is a whole new and unknown level of happiness for every normal person on earth.

01:38:32.100 She sounds like Michelle Obama, speaking about marriage as the darkest of institutions that's going to ruin your life.

01:38:41.580 And it reminds me of what J.D. Vance said, that these so-called childless cat ladies really need to understand their misunderstanding,

01:38:49.860 the possible joy that could be available to them in making a different choice.

01:38:53.540 And reminded the left that going out there lecturing everybody on how terrible marriage and families are

01:39:00.120 is one of the reasons why people look at you on the left and say, I don't want anything to do with these people.

01:39:05.540 They don't understand my life or happiness-creating choices at all.

01:39:10.940 Your thoughts?

01:39:13.580 Yeah.

01:39:14.060 I mean, I will just say, like, everything you just read could not be further away from my own personal experience either.

01:39:19.860 And, you know, there was a time in my life when you're young and you don't, like, necessarily know that because you haven't experienced it.

01:39:25.280 But every single thing good in my life, every single thing good in my life came from my 18-year marriage that only ended because of death and because of the kids we raised.

01:39:36.580 Like, no matter what I accomplish in my work or in any other realm, those will always be the things I value most.

01:39:42.160 Those will always be the things that – of which I'm proudest, but also, like, which give me a level of happiness and purpose and fulfillment that nothing else could ever provide.

01:39:52.640 And also, these are not just, like, anecdotal.

01:39:55.940 Like, why would she, just because of her own, like, misery and her own gross broken marriage, like, project that onto everybody else and say, like, I have this horrible marriage, therefore you –

01:40:05.560 Like, who's so narcissistic to universalize their own personal experience, but there's so much science and –

01:40:12.200 Like, I have a small farm just because I love animals and you watch, like, pigs and goats and, like, any horses and they all have their own, like, inbred needs of, like, social companionship and, like, how their kind of, like, needs function and what they need to be fulfilled.

01:40:28.320 And it always involves some sort of coupling or some sort of pairing for reasons that are obvious, like, the ability for two complex adults to both enrich each other's lives by finding a way to, like, connect on the deepest levels.

01:40:42.220 And it doesn't mean you don't fight.

01:40:43.280 It doesn't mean you're not irritated sometimes.

01:40:45.040 But the joys are so much bigger.

01:40:47.740 And society benefits.

01:40:49.080 You benefit.

01:40:50.400 I mean, I just don't – and also, like, if she's so unhappy, who cares?

01:40:53.620 Like, go see – get a therapist.

01:40:55.500 Why do they feel a need to, like, advertise their unhappiness and then turn it into some, like, universal principle where you're trying to convince everybody else that they're as miserable as you are?

01:41:06.140 Like, what is the need of that?

01:41:07.720 That the institution just sucks.

01:41:09.940 You know, I think about it.

01:41:10.820 Like, sometimes I think about our friend Maureen Callahan who's not married and is totally happy and, like, sparkling as a woman, as a person, thriving, brilliant, lots of friends,

01:41:23.040 just such a rich person in the fullest definition of that term.

01:41:28.120 And I see it – and she's not my only example in my friends – but, like, it's very possible to be very happy, not married.

01:41:34.100 However, if you want to get into stats as opposed to just it's widely known single women are thought to be happier than their married counterparts, the stats show the opposite.

01:41:44.180 There was just one done in March of 2025 surveying 3,000 American women between the ages of 25 and 55.

01:41:51.180 It concluded that married mothers are nearly twice as likely to report being very happy compared to single childless women.

01:41:58.620 Nearly twice as likely.

01:42:01.100 And it goes on to talk about how enjoyable life's even felt within the past 30 days.

01:42:05.880 Married – 47% of married mothers say, yeah, it's felt really enjoyable.

01:42:09.480 Most or all of the last 30 days.

01:42:11.040 Only 34% of unmarried childless women say that.

01:42:14.520 And it's for some of the reasons you mentioned, you know, just human interaction and touch and having a buddy and a best friend with you at all times

01:42:20.800 and someone to go through life with and, you know, work out problems with.

01:42:24.880 And I don't mean to rub it in, Glenn, because I know you're still, you know, obviously you lost somebody very important to you.

01:42:29.700 But, you know, my point is simply marriage as an institution is good and valuable and finding a lifetime partner is good and valuable

01:42:38.460 and does not deserve this dumping from somebody who chose clearly the wrong partner.

01:42:43.720 And I will tell you, as somebody who did get a divorce, you know, I was married before there was Doug, there was Dan, and Dan and I are still friends.

01:42:50.320 Because I will tell you that if you are having to work this hard all the time, like she says, like Michelle Obama says, you probably married the wrong person.

01:43:01.780 Because now having married the right person, and we've been together, we've been married almost 18 years now, it's not effortless, but it's close to effortless.

01:43:09.660 It's really close to effortless.

01:43:10.740 It's great.

01:43:12.020 It's exciting.

01:43:12.980 It's wonderful being with us.

01:43:13.880 It's not like, you know, running through the wheat fields all the time with your hair flowing.

01:43:17.760 I'm not saying that, but it's fun and it's uplifting and you look forward to seeing the person.

01:43:23.320 And you have random hugs throughout the day and, you know, just like caressing.

01:43:26.900 And I don't know, you just do quiet, nice things for each other and show respect for each other.

01:43:31.520 And Doug's a gentleman.

01:43:32.620 Like all those things uplift me in my life.

01:43:35.120 I can't imagine sitting in this relationship with constant bitterness infesting my worldview to the point when Taylor and Travis get engaged.

01:43:44.340 Even Megyn Kelly said, I wish her well, and I'm a critic of this woman.

01:43:48.620 She's got to dump all over it like, fuck off.

01:43:51.500 I'm miserable and you will be too.

01:43:53.580 Yeah, just really quickly, there's this really fascinating end-of-life research where people who are in the end stage of their life and know it, they get asked, like, what do you wish you did more of?

01:44:02.580 And almost nobody says, I wish I worked more.

01:44:05.520 I wish I had more promotions.

01:44:07.440 Almost everybody says, I wish I had more time with the person like I was married to.

01:44:11.720 I wish I had more time with my kids.

01:44:13.120 I wish I had done these things more with my family, the people who are closest to me, my friends.

01:44:17.120 That's ultimately what makes lives matter.

01:44:18.840 And if you're so bitter about that, you're basically bitter about life.

01:44:21.740 And that's kind of what makes it sad to hear articles like that.

01:44:25.000 Yes, and more pieces need to be written on that, reminding people.

01:44:28.620 Because too many people on the left are going to listen to this nitwit and let some golden opportunities go by because they think they're going to be happier sitting alone in front of their TV night after night.

01:44:38.240 And look, if that's your jam, God bless, no judgment.

01:44:40.900 But there's a really good jam potentially available to you on the other side.

01:44:44.500 And then once you add kids to the mix, exponentially even better.

01:44:48.400 So give it a shot.

01:44:51.280 Maybe don't get your marriage advice from MSNBC.

01:44:54.600 Glenn, a pleasure as always.

01:44:56.720 Look forward to talking soon.

01:44:58.640 Always great to see you, Megan.

01:45:00.240 All right, tomorrow we've got Link Lauren.

01:45:02.000 And boy, oh boy, do we have a Megan Markle update for you, among other things.

01:45:07.980 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:45:09.860 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:45:14.500 Thank you.

01:45:23.800 Thank you.

01:45:24.300 Bye bye.

01:45:25.040 Bye bye.

01:45:25.920 Bye bye.

01:45:26.600 Bye bye.

01:45:27.600 Bye bye.

01:45:28.140 Bye bye.

01:45:29.780 Bye bye.

01:45:30.880 Bye bye.

01:45:32.660 Bye bye.

01:45:33.580 Bye bye.

01:45:34.680 Bye bye.

01:45:39.540 Bye.

01:45:41.800 Bye bye.

01:45:42.540 Bye bye.

The Megyn Kelly Show - September 04, 2025

Lisa Cook Investigation Grows, RFK vs. Senators, and Bari Weiss CBS News Rumblings, with Glenn Greenwald

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