The Megyn Kelly Show - Local Sheriff vs. FBI Friction Rumblings in Nancy Guthrie Case, and NEW Mystery Man Seen on Neighborhood Ring Camera ｜ Ep. 1252

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00:01:00.780 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:02.580 Live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:12.540 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:14.120 I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:14.940 We are broadcasting live from a remote location today, as we have been yesterday and for the

00:01:20.460 next few days, away with the fam for some R&R, though not that much R&R.

00:01:25.180 But in any event, happy to be with all of you and continuing our coverage of this case.

00:01:30.500 I mean, to be honest, I'd plan on taking the day off.

00:01:33.300 So I know there's some viewers who would like to hear us talk about some other news besides

00:01:38.680 the Guthrie case.

00:01:39.820 And we wouldn't have been doing a show at all today had it not been for this case, which

00:01:44.300 people have a lot of interest in for all sorts of reasons.

00:01:47.980 And we will stay on until, you know, it's obvious when it's time to move on.

00:01:52.700 I mean, this is either going to become a cold case and just a missing persons case.

00:01:55.800 We're going to have to turn the page or they're going to find a resolution.

00:01:58.660 But we're not at either of those points yet.

00:02:01.520 And next week, we'll have plenty of other news as well.

00:02:04.700 So in any event, I want to bring in our all-star panel.

00:02:08.580 We've got James Fitzgerald and we've got Maureen O'Connell.

00:02:11.680 James is former supervisory special agent at the FBI and the host of the Cold Red podcast.

00:02:17.260 And Maureen, former FBI special agent and co-host of the Best Case, Worst Case podcast.

00:02:23.020 And they've been our guides throughout this whole thing.

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00:03:16.620 Okay, guys, a couple of big developments to start with.

00:03:20.320 There is dueling information on whether since our show yesterday, the FBI has, quote, moved on from, and by FBI, I mean FBI and the Pima County Sheriff's Department, from Pac-Man, who we analyzed at length yesterday.

00:03:37.180 The man who had two backpacks in a back alley a few miles away from Nancy Guthrie's case, almost at the same time of the Nancy Guthrie home invasion, if the camera was right in the alley, put it around 1.53 a.m., someplace around there.

00:03:54.180 And, of course, we're told that the doorbell was disconnected at Nancy's house at 1.47 and that someone was spotted on camera at 2.12 a.m.

00:04:00.920 So the NBC News nightly program, I think it was last night, Tom Winter, who's been covering the case for them, reports that law enforcement has, quote, moved on.

00:04:12.580 I think he said that that man is not a person of interest or a suspect, and they've moved on.

00:04:18.200 And TMZ saying that's not true, saying that their sources say, no, your information is wrong, that no one has been cleared.

00:04:27.920 That was the word. They've been cleared. And Harvey says, no, my FBI source tells me no one has been cleared in relation to that video.

00:04:35.900 So let's just start there. What's going on there?

00:04:39.680 I mean, I tried to get to the bottom of this, and basically I was directed to the Pima County Sheriff's Department.

00:04:47.820 I mean, that they're the ones supposed to be running herd on this.

00:04:51.240 They're the only ones who can clear or not clear. And while the FBI may be telling Harvey he's not cleared, no one's cleared, Tom Winter seems to have two just law enforcement sources saying he is.

00:05:04.360 So, Jim, what do you think is happening here?

00:05:06.920 No one is no one is cleared in this investigation, Megan, at this point in time.

00:05:11.220 You can talk of the inner circle of the family, to guys like this who pop up, you know, days later, weeks later, a week and a half later on some kind of a video.

00:05:19.680 So, you know, unless someone's actually in prison, locked up, no ends of rebuts, CCTV on him, they know where he is.

00:05:26.520 No one is going to be cleared. And even if this guy is not the one or someone is in prison and they know he didn't do the abduction of Nancy Guthrie, you know, does he know someone who did?

00:05:37.600 Was he involved in some sort of co-conspiral type thing? So I said yesterday, this guy has to be ruled out before.

00:05:44.340 Well, they can do other things at the same time, but he has to be ruled out before they say he's cleared.

00:05:49.380 We're hearing conflicting stories. One people said one set of people said yes.

00:05:53.020 Other people said no. My idea is you keep them, you know, you move them down the priority list.

00:05:57.880 You put them in section C, D or E of suspects, but you still keep an eye on them to keep everything.

00:06:03.520 Get DNA, get fingerprints if that's possible, and then compare it from there.

00:06:07.120 But I would say if I was the investigator, and Maureen can disagree with this if she wants, but this guy is still in the suspect pool,

00:06:14.220 which is too many factors that lined up when they shouldn't have lined up, same time, same location, backpacks, all that stuff.

00:06:21.220 So he has to be kept in that suspect pool. I'm not sure he's been identified or not. That would be a big factor.

00:06:25.680 No one would have told Tom. I mean, Tom Winter is a good reporter. No one would have said he was cleared if they hadn't identified him.

00:06:33.120 I just can't believe that. But here is Harvey, who clearly does have some FBI sources.

00:06:38.840 Here he cites FBI. Normally he just cites law enforcement.

00:06:41.780 But his only role in this whole case has been the so-called ransom notes, which we know the FBI is handling.

00:06:47.660 Quite clearly he's got a source or sources within the FBI.

00:06:51.480 And this is what he said on Hannity last night, Maureen, here at his top three.

00:06:54.680 Why is NBC dismissing this now that apparently they have determined that the man has been cleared in this case?

00:07:01.440 Because it looks like a strange coincidence to me.

00:07:04.260 Yeah, I mean, look, I'm not going to embrace or dispute what NBC said.

00:07:10.380 I can only tell you about an hour ago, I called one of my sources at the FBI who was involved in this case,

00:07:19.020 who said that nobody has been cleared in connection with the video.

00:07:24.180 That doesn't mean they're implicated either.

00:07:26.280 But they said they're looking at everything, including this.

00:07:29.580 So I'm getting different information from the FBI.

00:07:32.400 Okay, so what do you make of it, Maureen?

00:07:36.980 I think that in the Bureau, we're doing different things.

00:07:41.740 And, you know, Fitz has talked at length about the number of different investigations in all these different silos

00:07:48.260 that are happening simultaneously, including the sheriff's department.

00:07:52.080 Our team is just not going to give up, especially like the CAST team, the cellular analysis team and others.

00:08:00.160 We are just not going to give up until we check every single solitary box that we check.

00:08:05.860 And for two different agencies to have two different ways of going about things is totally natural.

00:08:12.820 You're always going to have hiccups.

00:08:14.360 You're always going to have issues among personnel.

00:08:17.360 But that's where leadership comes in.

00:08:19.200 And if you're a good leader, you know, like more than one time I had a supervisor say, 0.99

00:08:23.720 Hey, I need you to go over here and build a damn bridge. 0.99

00:08:26.640 And I don't care what you have to do to build it. 0.99

00:08:28.380 Build it.

00:08:29.080 Because we have whatever the situation is at hand.

00:08:32.040 And here the situation, obviously, is an 84-year-old woman.

00:08:35.320 So we have different ways of going about it.

00:08:37.220 We're not going to tell them how to handle their business.

00:08:39.400 They're not going to be telling us how to handle ours.

00:08:41.960 And then at the end of the day, we just share every – or in a, you know, really good situation, we're going to share all the information.

00:08:50.140 And we're going to do it in the command post.

00:08:51.980 And we're going to say this is what we found.

00:08:54.020 With respect to this guy, though, I think we're – it's fair to say he's not a great lead.

00:09:00.820 No one's considering him their hottest lead right now.

00:09:03.900 Otherwise, the messaging overall would be different.

00:09:06.660 And so that's disturbing because now we have at least two men who, one we know, committed a crime.

00:09:14.500 One we think looks pretty sketchy with the double backpack in the alley in the middle of the night trying to get through some gate.

00:09:21.680 Doesn't exactly look like, you know, he's working on his dissertation.

00:09:26.200 So I'm not sure what's happening there in Tucson.

00:09:28.440 And then we have a third person.

00:09:30.820 Now, another video has emerged.

00:09:32.920 And we're going to show that today of yet another guy.

00:09:36.120 This guy is on a porch.

00:09:39.720 This, again, comes from one of the ring camera forums in and around Tucson.

00:09:46.420 Like, people talk.

00:09:47.220 And they link their ring cameras and they talk about what they've seen on there.

00:09:51.120 Now, look at this guy.

00:09:52.500 He was all over this woman's porch in the middle of the night.

00:09:56.600 Look at him, you guys.

00:09:57.360 He's got the dark mustache.

00:09:58.400 He's got the dark soul patch into a beard underneath his chin.

00:10:03.400 He's got pretty distinguished eyebrows.

00:10:07.560 Now, unfortunately, he is also kind of skinny.

00:10:11.560 In my view, that's a distinction from the man who was on Nancy Guthrie's porch.

00:10:16.280 You can tell he sort of knows about the ring camera here himself.

00:10:21.100 But look at that.

00:10:22.740 Before he manages to cover it up or do whatever he did to it, boy, oh boy, you have a pretty good headshot of him.

00:10:27.800 So, Jim, there is a striking similarity between this guy and his face, at least, and what we think is behind that masked man on Nancy's porch.

00:10:39.340 And once again, as I've said about the last guy we showed and the same guy we talked about yesterday, by the way, Maureen and I came up with the name Tupac for him.

00:10:49.760 This latest guy?

00:10:50.900 No, no, the guy from yesterday.

00:10:52.060 Oh, Pac-Man.

00:10:52.860 Oh, Tupac.

00:10:53.300 I get it.

00:10:54.380 Anyway, but this guy, yeah, there are some similarities, certainly through the eye holes.

00:10:58.300 They've got to follow up on this.

00:10:59.540 I would want to know how far away from Nancy's house, the exact night, the same, and the time of day, and perhaps if any other ring cameras pick this guy up along the way.

00:11:10.160 He's certainly acting suspicious like he doesn't belong there.

00:11:14.780 There's no way he belongs.

00:11:16.660 Well, of course not.

00:11:17.660 I mean, unless it's an ex-girlfriend or something.

00:11:20.180 We just don't know that.

00:11:20.860 But I'm sure the ex-girlfriend wouldn't be putting this thing out unless she wanted to, you know, upset her ex-boyfriend. 0.99

00:11:25.820 So he has to be looked into, facial recognition.

00:11:29.040 Local sheriff deputies are going to know this guy, most likely.

00:11:32.440 Someone will recognize him and say, hey, who is he?

00:11:34.860 If he's just a normal, you know, street guy doing his thing, that's one thing.

00:11:40.020 But obviously, if he's there for some other reason, that has to be determined.

00:11:44.140 And if he never shows up and turns himself in, that's a clue, too.

00:11:47.920 So we have to get these guys identified as the bottom line and maybe just move on from there.

00:11:52.520 But without knowing who they are, their names, or where exactly they were, you know, at 147 or so that Sunday morning, they've got to keep him in the suspect form.

00:12:02.940 We don't know, but somebody knows.

00:12:04.260 Here's the information.

00:12:05.100 The original poster of the video goes by Keane Devine online.

00:12:09.680 And this was originally posted at – it was dated January 23rd, you know, last month, from the neighbor's, like, ring camera app not far from Nancy.

00:12:19.080 Then our friend Nerdy Addict on X, he reposted it, which is where I saw it this morning.

00:12:26.640 The man showed up on someone's porch, he said, around 3.30 a.m., and then returned again at 5 a.m., prompting a concerned ring user to post about it on the neighbor app.

00:12:37.360 This home is roughly six miles south of Nancy Guthrie's house.

00:12:41.300 Look at that.

00:12:41.740 I mean, short of it, like, being vertical, this guy gave us, like, his own little mugshot.

00:12:45.800 I mean, somebody should be looking into him for what, if anything, may have gone missing on that porch at a minimum.

00:12:51.740 The link that the neighbor who posted it on theneighborsring.com, that post says,

00:12:59.000 this guy appeared in the front yard around 3.30 a.m., then returned around 5 a.m.

00:13:03.140 My dogs went crazy barking and thankfully spooked him away.

00:13:06.080 I didn't answer the door.

00:13:07.820 Anyone else see him in the area of 6th between Campbell and Tucson Boulevard?

00:13:13.840 He's got on a light-colored—now moving on to just what we see in the video for the listening audience.

00:13:18.440 He has dark hair, dark facial hair, a mustache, the sole patch underneath his bottom lip.

00:13:24.520 He approaches the doorway, appears to be carrying a light-colored sweatshirt or jacket.

00:13:28.580 He sort of oddly hunches over, we think probably trying to avoid detection on the camera, which failed with his rear end to the camera.

00:13:36.400 But, I mean, he's caught, like, his whole face is on there.

00:13:41.060 He shuffles to the side, appears to try to block the camera unsuccessfully.

00:13:45.660 You see his entire face.

00:13:47.160 He does have more rounded eyes.

00:13:50.140 And it looks a little bit like he has something on his neck, like a tattoo.

00:13:54.720 It's hard to see.

00:13:56.280 And he looks Hispanic to me.

00:13:57.940 You can't really tell in this black-and-white video for sure.

00:14:00.160 But, I don't know.

00:14:02.940 To me, still, he seems too skinny.

00:14:04.820 The guy who was at Nancy's, for sure, to me, looks slightly huskier than this guy and huskier than Tupac.

00:14:14.140 And now, let's see.

00:14:15.540 Yes, this is somebody on the Nerdy Attic thread.

00:14:22.460 Chupa Jones points out, notice how he uses the same hand to block the camera.

00:14:26.600 Then, almost seemingly instinctively, does the same little crouch down to the left motion as the abductor.

00:14:33.880 Or as the mask-licks guy, as Tupac, he's saying, as Tupac does in the video.

00:14:38.900 It's like he's reaching for something that isn't there.

00:14:40.860 A lot of speculation about whether this is the same guy.

00:14:43.080 Let me just, I mean, any thoughts on all of that?

00:14:45.840 Because this is somebody who was in the area, came back an hour and a half later.

00:14:51.160 I mean, this is very suspicious.

00:14:54.180 And, by the way, we think Nancy's abductor may have come back.

00:14:56.960 You know, he approached that door more than once.

00:15:00.640 We at least think that because he didn't have the backpack on in that one shot, Maureen.

00:15:03.960 Right.

00:15:05.740 I think you're right about this guy.

00:15:07.760 He's got those large eyes and he's got those eyebrows that are perfectly arched at the bottom.

00:15:14.420 And he's got the right facial hair around his mouth.

00:15:18.900 I wish I could see the mouth a little bit better.

00:15:21.260 Yeah.

00:15:21.780 Because the perpetrator at Nancy's house has thick lips.

00:15:25.660 That were perfectly calm the whole time.

00:15:29.460 I mean, there are people that can't pick up a plate or turn a doorknob without making some sort of, you know, tightening up their face in some way, shape, or form.

00:15:39.160 But that person on Nancy's porch just was calm as a cucumber the whole time.

00:15:44.220 I do see a similarity, as you pointed out, about how calm this person is, this new video, the way he just saunters around and he's hunched over.

00:15:53.760 He seems to be a bit taller and I would agree a bit thinner, but we don't know that right now.

00:15:59.740 Maybe we can get that team out on the front porch to measure all that.

00:16:04.020 But I don't see this person standing up straight.

00:16:07.060 Does it say or did it mention at all if this person in this newest video was seen at other houses in the area or just that one particular?

00:16:16.360 It did not say that.

00:16:18.480 And, I mean, one notable distinction is he did not wear a ski mask.

00:16:22.520 So, if that was a crime, unlike Tupac or Pac-Man, who was just sort of, who looked like he had just committed a crime, this is just my own supposition, or might be about to, and was in an area where the crime didn't appear to be happening.

00:16:37.280 It seemed to be more like where he was stashing something.

00:16:39.220 Could be a totally reasonable explanation for his behavior, should note that for the record.

00:16:42.160 This guy was in the midst of something that looked sketchy, like on the porch.

00:16:48.020 And he was not wearing the face mask, unlike Nancy's abductor, who did have the face mask.

00:16:54.420 But this is where I want to bring in the latest sketch from this world-famous sketch artist, you guys.

00:17:01.220 Because I'm holding your head and I'll put it back on the board, too, when we get to it.

00:17:04.420 The picture of Porch Man, okay?

00:17:06.300 The new Porch Man, unmasked Porch Man.

00:17:11.000 There's a very famous forensic artist named Lois Gibson. 0.97

00:17:14.720 She's now in her 70s.

00:17:15.900 She's a retired Houston PD forensic artist. 0.61

00:17:19.040 And she is the forensic artist.

00:17:22.000 So, you are the victim of crime.

00:17:24.300 You go in.

00:17:25.360 You speak with Lois about what you saw.

00:17:28.340 Try to remember what he looked like.

00:17:29.540 And she can translate your memory into a picture. 0.95

00:17:34.480 She actually holds the Guinness World Record for most successful forensic artist.

00:17:38.360 On her website, she credits her near-death experience as the victim of a serial rapist slash killer as the reason she's so passionate about catching criminals.

00:17:46.820 She's got a very interesting personal story.

00:17:49.680 And her website states that her sketches have helped identify more than 751 criminals.

00:17:55.460 So, this woman's pretty badass. 1.00

00:17:57.720 Now, she talked with the Guinness Book of World Records when she was honored about how she helps crime victims remember faces because she said so many of them will come in and say, I didn't see the face.

00:18:10.340 I don't know.

00:18:11.580 And just listen to Lois here.

00:18:13.680 I've had witnesses that were screaming, I never saw the face.

00:18:17.900 They screamed they never saw the face.

00:18:19.620 Well, here's two tricks.

00:18:21.120 Number one is you ask them, what kind of hair did they have?

00:18:24.660 And everybody remembers hair.

00:18:27.000 I mean, human beings are obsessed with hair.

00:18:30.400 That's why high school is so hard.

00:18:32.420 And then the other trick you use, if they are sure, they say, no, I never saw the face.

00:18:39.400 As you talk about something else, you become very nice to them.

00:18:42.920 And you ponder the character of the person that attacked them.

00:18:46.520 And then you say, what kind of expression did he have?

00:18:50.620 If they answer that, they saw the face.

00:18:52.880 It's very clever, right?

00:18:57.540 Yeah, I like her approach.

00:18:59.520 Her whole demeanor is good.

00:19:01.700 So she took a shot at coming up with a sketch based on Nancy's abductor, based on the mask.

00:19:10.520 Like, she took a look at his masked face, and here it is.

00:19:13.640 For listening audience, it looks like a Hispanic man.

00:19:17.920 He looks, forgive me, kind of handsome.

00:19:21.600 A good head of hair.

00:19:23.680 The black mustache sort of right down into a goatee that doesn't have hair all out throughout the chin.

00:19:31.640 Just a line of it going down the sides of his little mouth and down into like a devil beard with the soul patch connected with a little devil beard, but not a pointed beard.

00:19:40.700 He has a nice nose.

00:19:44.040 He's got a little age on his face.

00:19:45.860 I'd say this man here is late 30s.

00:19:48.880 And he's got the eyes that you see in the actual photo from Nancy's ring cam, nest cam, in that the sides of the eyes, the outside end of the eyes, go maybe ever so slightly upward.

00:20:05.220 You know, they tilt almost a little bit upward at the outside.

00:20:10.580 There's no hood on those eyelids.

00:20:12.720 This guy does not need the plastic surgery that gets rid of the upper eyelid.

00:20:17.860 And he, we were told yesterday by law enforcement, FBI, that's what they were doing on Nancy's porch with that tent, as Jim and Maureen said.

00:20:27.280 They were figuring out how tall the perp was.

00:20:29.440 And they now said 5'9 to 5'10.

00:20:31.800 So this guy doesn't look particularly large in stature in the way she's showing him in her sketch that she came up with.

00:20:38.660 And just before I get it to you guys to weigh in on, I'm going to give you one more thing on Lois Gibson.

00:20:44.700 She's solved all these cases or helped solve.

00:20:47.040 And one of the best was this case of a non-fatal shooting of a cop named Officer Paul Deeson.

00:20:58.040 She tells the story.

00:20:59.220 We actually pulled it.

00:21:00.220 This is, again, in her interview with the Guinness Book.

00:21:01.700 Who knew the Guinness Book of World Records was doing on-camera interviews, by the way?

00:21:05.440 She tells the story about how she helped catch Officer Paul Deeson's shooter.

00:21:11.120 Watch this.

00:21:11.540 So I had an officer that was shot in the head and shot in the back and run over and drug under a car.

00:21:17.460 Officer Paul Deeson was patrolling one night, and he didn't realize the guy that he stopped to just give a regular ticket was an escape convict.

00:21:25.620 His name was Donald Eugene Dutton.

00:21:27.720 So Don Dutton, as soon as he gets stopped by Paul Deeson, he jumps out of his car, and he shoots Paul in the head and in the back.

00:21:36.460 And Paul twirls around and falls down unconscious on the ground.

00:21:39.700 So Don Dutton got back in the car and on purpose ran over Paul, Officer Deeson, and it drug him down the street about 60 feet.

00:21:49.760 So Paul is so tough, he gets up and walks back to his radio and calls in his own assist and was semi-unconscious.

00:21:58.360 And he told me, I didn't remember his face.

00:22:00.640 I didn't see his face.

00:22:01.960 I only saw the flash of the gun.

00:22:03.940 So I talked about other things and said, Paul, you're going to live.

00:22:06.980 You're going to be okay.

00:22:07.680 And I said, what kind of expression did he have?

00:22:12.480 And I'll never forget, he said, he looked like a shark, like he didn't care about anything at all.

00:22:18.260 And inside my mind I'm going, yee-haw, because that means he remembered the face.

00:22:23.520 Anyway, Officer Deeson swears he doesn't remember doing the sketch with me because I talked to him years later and I've got it hanging on my wall.

00:22:31.380 They released the sketch.

00:22:33.600 Three days later, Don Dutton was caught trying to shoplift a chainsaw from a Sears.

00:22:39.720 When he was arrested for the shoplifting incident, two of the guys at the jail thought he looked like my sketch.

00:22:46.180 So they held an in-hospital room video lineup for Paul Deeson and he picked him out.

00:22:53.540 And then they went to the parking lot of the shoplifting scene and they found a car with pieces of Paul's skin and uniform hanging from the undercarriage.

00:23:01.760 So he for sure did it.

00:23:03.120 And I went to trial and he got life in prison and Paul reached over across the bench and kissed me on the cheek.

00:23:09.100 Incredible story.

00:23:12.740 And for the listening audience, her sketch of the perp there, Don, is identical.

00:23:19.940 Guys, look at that.

00:23:21.600 Look at that.

00:23:22.840 It's as if she was working off of the photograph of this man.

00:23:27.480 But when she drew that sketch on the left, she had never seen his face.

00:23:31.440 She had a cop who didn't think he had seen his face.

00:23:34.280 A cop who'd suffered massive trauma, so you'd have to really question whether he remembered anything you could be relied on for a description.

00:23:41.960 It is as if she drew the photograph.

00:23:44.120 So we do need to take Lois seriously when she puts this sketch together and says, I took a shot.

00:23:51.440 And here's what she wrote on X.

00:23:53.400 I guessed at the parts of the face covered with the ski mask on this, this Nancy Guthrie kidnapping suspect.

00:24:00.500 I used the surveillance photo shown.

00:24:02.380 I spent 43 years at the job trying to help detectives with similar photos.

00:24:06.680 Only things somewhat sure are eyes and part of lips slash mustache.

00:24:11.100 I'll take the hit if I'm drastically wrong.

00:24:13.380 Don't criticize.

00:24:14.740 Do your own.

00:24:15.920 So Lois is like, she's not taking guff from anybody.

00:24:19.560 She's throwing down. 0.64

00:24:20.360 It was a bold thing for her to do because she knows she could be wrong.

00:24:23.720 I take her very seriously.

00:24:25.540 And just for not for nothing, but let's just compare her sketch to Porch Man.

00:24:32.700 From last night.

00:24:35.020 Something's wrong.

00:24:36.360 It's pretty good.

00:24:37.900 I mean, it's pretty damn good.

00:24:41.100 I got to say, for the listening audience, it's eerily similar.

00:24:46.300 Like, do they not have to seriously investigate this latest Porch Man, Jim?

00:24:52.640 Well, I'd be curious if Lois saw this latest Porch Man, as we'll call him.

00:24:58.280 I don't think so from what you said.

00:25:00.800 No, because this came out yesterday and this latest guy, this hit today.

00:25:05.160 Well, you're not going to hear Jim Fitzgerald on Megyn Kelly's show say, don't incorporate this sketch into the investigation.

00:25:11.500 This is obviously a positive lead.

00:25:15.520 And by the way, it's refreshing to see sketch artists who actually draw their composite sketches as opposed to using software.

00:25:23.860 The software is OK, but I really like seeing the artist.

00:25:26.540 It's a true art not to use that word over again.

00:25:29.860 Lots and lots of practice is needed.

00:25:31.900 You have to be a very good listener.

00:25:33.140 You have to know how to interact with people.

00:25:35.360 Obviously, she's not doing that in this case. 0.99

00:25:37.300 So I would say very much this sketch is worth putting out.

00:25:41.060 I will add this caveat, though.

00:25:43.320 And I put some of these pointers out a few days ago with you, Megan.

00:25:47.640 It's this guy may have been changed, may have changed his identity since certainly since the abduction itself, but certainly since the video went out, even with the with the skull mask on.

00:25:58.080 So look at the base.

00:25:59.880 I would tell the public, look at the basic features in this composite sketch, but don't get thrown off, you know, without the goatee mustache, whatever.

00:26:08.160 But just think that this guy have it before.

00:26:10.080 If he wore this most of his life, whatever, or certainly the last few years, all of a sudden it came off in the last week or so.

00:26:17.100 Call the FBI tip line.

00:26:18.600 Red alert.

00:26:19.020 I mean, Maureen, it's this woman's got a lifetime of figuring out what does someone look like without being shown what they look like by just being given a few clues, a few remembrances.

00:26:32.220 And here, I mean, I would argue that the face masked subject is probably even easier to work off of than someone's memory because you can see things like face shape and some facial hair and the eyes are the eyes are everything.

00:26:50.860 Right.

00:26:51.260 But if the face mask is tight, it can smash down the nose considerably.

00:26:56.460 But I'm not going to argue with this lady either.

00:26:59.080 I mean, she's she's legit.

00:27:00.700 She's done the job.

00:27:02.360 She's succeeded at it over and over and over.

00:27:05.380 So but I would agree with Fitz that let let's not limit our imaginations to what this person will or will not look like.

00:27:12.700 They'll definitely be on edge.

00:27:14.900 They're going to be, you know, they're going to be freaking out.

00:27:18.240 But this whole where we are now is just like another dip or rise in this roller coaster called the Nancy Guthrie case.

00:27:27.680 This is just unprecedented.

00:27:30.700 It's sad because we're here.

00:27:31.940 We are, you know, it's it's now getting extremely unlikely that Nancy is still alive because the family told us she can't survive without her critical meds.

00:27:42.200 And, you know, it's possible they just said that in order to engender sympathy with the kidnapper.

00:27:46.660 Like this is about to turn into a murder in case you didn't know that or didn't plan that.

00:27:52.720 But here we are almost two weeks later and we still don't have her.

00:27:55.580 And they said they'd been checking the hospitals to see if anybody had like popped in to try to get meds.

00:28:01.080 And at least the initial surge suggested no.

00:28:03.820 Go ahead, Maury.

00:28:04.900 With regard to the meds, my mother-in-law was put on hospice because they were she was it was during COVID and she was in assisted living.

00:28:12.340 And they said, we're taking her off all of her meds for whatever reason. 1.00

00:28:16.060 And we don't expect her to last long.

00:28:18.260 We don't think she can last long without all this medication, heart medication, everything.

00:28:21.960 Right.

00:28:22.420 They took her off the meds.

00:28:23.740 She lasted another couple of years and she felt better than she felt while she was on the meds.

00:28:27.400 So that gives me a little bit of hope.

00:28:31.980 We have to work this case.

00:28:33.320 Law enforcement has to work this case like she's alive. 1.00

00:28:36.460 It's the only way to work this.

00:28:39.100 And that's why tensions run high.

00:28:42.000 That's why the stakes are so high is because everyone's trying to believe she's going to be she's going to come home.

00:28:49.640 Well, I mean, Jim, you know, as well as I do, that these sketches, they they can be really good.

00:28:56.300 I mean, they can be great like Lois. 0.94

00:28:58.300 They can be not as great.

00:28:59.700 I mean, the Unabomber sketch is the most famous or infamous sketch in the world.

00:29:05.260 Everybody knew the Unabomber by his police sketch for the vast. 0.97

00:29:10.160 But I bet.

00:29:10.560 In fact, when you say Unabomber, I think people think of the police sketch more than they think of the actual image of Ted Kaczynski.

00:29:16.800 Once you guys got him, I can't really look.

00:29:20.080 I'm looking at it now.

00:29:21.060 Can I really say this sketch artist nailed Ted Kaczynski?

00:29:25.200 I don't know.

00:29:25.720 I mean, like, you know, it shows him with the hood, the hoodie and the sunglasses.

00:29:30.340 And then you see him later with his crazy mane of hair and his crazy beard.

00:29:33.760 I'm not sure.

00:29:35.200 There have been others.

00:29:36.460 There was one, the Night Stalker, a serial killer in San Francisco Bay Area, L.A., April 84 through August of 85.

00:29:46.080 He killed at least 15 people.

00:29:48.540 We're showing his sketch on the board right now.

00:29:52.180 That's not bad.

00:29:53.440 That one's not bad at all.

00:29:56.120 Police had released one of these to the media and he was caught later.

00:30:00.980 But that one's not bad.

00:30:02.580 The one of Dennis Rader, BTK.

00:30:07.360 I don't know.

00:30:09.180 You tell me what you think.

00:30:10.460 It's not going to identify him with his family or friends, unfortunately.

00:30:16.880 No, not great.

00:30:17.580 You could rule some people out.

00:30:19.240 It'll be tough to rule someone in based on that composite right there.

00:30:22.660 But they tried.

00:30:23.000 Let me show you one other.

00:30:24.020 Here's Son of Sam, David Berkowitz, who terrified us all in 1977, one year in New York City.

00:30:28.800 And let me tell you, growing up in upstate New York during that time, everybody knew who Son of Sam was.

00:30:33.080 And this one actually got a lot of criticism after he was caught because they ripped on the sketch artist.

00:30:39.700 I think it's actually pretty good not knowing, you know, for somebody who's never seen him before.

00:30:43.800 But the face is a lot thinner than Berkowitz really was.

00:30:47.060 Like, Berkowitz was fat.

00:30:48.960 He was kind of chubby. 0.99

00:30:50.360 Fat.

00:30:50.620 And he had that receding hairline that you don't, you know, this, the sketch just looks like some guy with perfect hair versus what he's caught.

00:30:58.000 And the sketch shows a nose that looks like, I don't know, it's like more wide at the bottom with wider nostrils and a thinner bridge.

00:31:05.560 And Berkowitz's nose was, it looks more Italian to me.

00:31:09.300 Like, it doesn't look the same down at the bottom.

00:31:12.680 And the lips don't look the same.

00:31:13.860 I mean, bears a resemblance, I think it's fair to say.

00:31:16.320 But, so I don't know.

00:31:18.100 Like, they're hit or miss, basically.

00:31:19.960 But let me add here, all this stuff is good and important, but this opens up another door for us that I was hesitant to get into for the last week or so.

00:31:31.160 I think we touched on it yesterday.

00:31:33.200 Why is this guy now on the porch of someone else a week before or so, five miles away?

00:31:41.560 And what is the problem with that?

00:31:43.600 And was this a mission-oriented project, which I thought it was all along, to kidnap Mrs. Guthrie?

00:31:51.740 And we'll rule out Tupac from last night, but this guy does look good.

00:31:56.260 Is this now a random sort of act of violence, an abduction there?

00:32:00.940 And then I hope that even strengthens more now that the kidnapping part and the raising the money for ransom is even more specious and not connected at all to the actual abduction.

00:32:11.900 So, why is this guy a week beforehand going on someone else's?

00:32:16.500 That's why I asked yesterday, was the address very similar or one block away the police go to wrong houses sometimes when they're doing search warrants?

00:32:23.540 And that's a bad thing.

00:32:25.100 And FBI has done it, too.

00:32:26.800 So, this just opens up this other door.

00:32:30.580 I hate to use the word meaningless, but like almost motiveless.

00:32:33.560 And everything we put into this, all my experience, Marines, could this just be some rando walking down the street, why he puts on the mask, you know, for Nancy's abduction and not a week before, because maybe he did this surveillance before, looked in the window.

00:32:48.460 Hey, there's this old lady by herself. 1.00

00:32:50.220 I see a camera.

00:32:51.000 So, if this is directed to kidnap her, why go to some other place a week before?

00:32:58.180 That's what I'm trying to reconcile in my head, unless the guy is not connected at all.

00:33:03.400 But we have to figure out who this guy was from this latest video and figure out his name and address and determine it.

00:33:09.160 If it's not connected, I think it's safe to say that we should not move to Tucson.

00:33:15.740 Like, how many men do they have roaming in the middle of the night, trying to break in, creepily preying on people's porches, possibly abducting women from their beds?

00:33:27.420 Like, I didn't know that Tucson was such a hotbed of criminality, but it's kind of disturbing, Maureen.

00:33:35.640 Well, he's got something in his hands.

00:33:37.200 Fitz, what would you say to the possibility that maybe he was going around as part of his pre-incident work and trying to get clothing from people that had someone else's DNA all the way, you know, just...

00:33:55.200 I mean, I can't rule that out, but I don't think this guy is as bright as some people are giving him credit for.

00:34:03.940 I mean, again, it's a successful abduction.

00:34:05.420 We have to give this guy credit for that so far, but is it all by happenstance, by fluke, and some mistakes made early on by the investigators?

00:34:15.460 I mean...

00:34:15.920 Well, let me give you one other.

00:34:18.200 I have another criminal for you from the Tucson area who's on camera.

00:34:22.240 This one is a peeping Tom, and I believe this is from December.

00:34:26.220 This is a local couple realized that they live in, like, an apartment complex, it looks like, and they look at this guy.

00:34:32.980 He's wearing a reflective vest.

00:34:34.660 It's almost like he wants to be seen for the listening audience.

00:34:37.280 He's got reflections, like the stripes, all over his shirt.

00:34:40.140 And the couple that has been spied on is now filming him.

00:34:45.280 I don't know if it's with their Nest camera or their ring camera, or they actually just did it.

00:34:48.380 But he's going up on his tiptoes, and he's holding his phone in front of a high-up window.

00:34:54.900 The couple spoke to the local media saying that's a bathroom window, and that he has been, or somebody had been spying through that window for some time.

00:35:05.380 How old that female victim was in that... 1.00

00:35:09.240 She's not. She's young. She's not old, which is the distinction here.

00:35:13.000 I mean, I think, because it's like, if you're peeping Tom, and you want to look into the windows of young women in their bathrooms, and this woman is young.

00:35:22.020 She looks like maybe young 30s to me. 1.00

00:35:24.220 That doesn't necessarily put you on the line for abducting an 84-year-old in the middle of the night.

00:35:29.120 But I am just saying, like, this is, Tucson's got a crime problem.

00:35:33.020 Maybe it's every city that has all this stuff on camera.

00:35:37.000 But this one happened, the one that we're showing you the video of, happened December 18, 2025.

00:35:44.300 He was spotted peeping into apartments near Cartaro Farms in Thornydale and Pima County.

00:35:50.680 I don't know where that is in relation to Nancy.

00:35:52.280 Actually, I do.

00:35:53.340 It's 9.3 miles west of Nancy's house.

00:35:55.660 My crack team looked that up.

00:35:57.740 But this man is 6'3 to 6'4 and has a different...

00:36:01.520 So it's not our guy, because the FBI, they wouldn't be off by that many inches in estimating who took Nancy.

00:36:07.980 And, yeah, the couple was reporting that they saw him looking into one of their neighbor's windows as well.

00:36:13.480 This wasn't the first time.

00:36:15.580 They say that the estimated population in Tucson for at least 2024, the most recent we have, is 554,000.

00:36:22.600 This, they had about 2,200, no, they had 2,084 burglaries in 2024, which is 401 burglaries per every 100,000 residents.

00:36:40.540 I don't know how, if that's, that seems high to me.

00:36:44.280 That's high.

00:36:44.660 But perhaps this is like, I don't know.

00:36:48.400 Like, if this were the case, is it like Tucson's forgotten how to investigate these or what?

00:36:53.800 Because nobody has confidence in this sheriff at this point.

00:36:57.580 And I would think this guy would say, I've been around the block.

00:37:00.320 I know how to investigate a break-in.

00:37:02.240 I've done all the things I need to do.

00:37:03.720 There was no problem with me turning over the crime scene when I did.

00:37:06.960 But instead, he's been kind of like, okay, if there's someone to blame, I'll take the blame.

00:37:11.420 It doesn't seem like they're very good at investigating so far.

00:37:15.600 Well, if you have a city council.

00:37:17.200 Oh, go ahead, Fitz.

00:37:18.640 No, you go.

00:37:19.220 And then I'll pick up.

00:37:20.240 If you have a city council and a mayor that aren't supportive of law enforcement going after any kind of petty crime,

00:37:31.620 this is exactly what you're going to get.

00:37:34.080 It's like a bunch of three-year-olds.

00:37:35.760 Criminals are like three-year-olds.

00:37:37.220 If you let them get away with anything, they're going to get away with everything.

00:37:42.560 Well, that's clearly what's happening.

00:37:44.820 And I don't know if it was any accident that, you know, this guy thought he could get away with it on Nancy Guthrie's doorstop

00:37:50.720 or breaking into her house because maybe he's in this crime world, Fitz, to your point.

00:37:55.040 And, like, he's like, everyone's getting away with it.

00:37:57.860 You know, I can get away with it, too.

00:37:58.960 And then things went wrong in there, and it just turned into, now I've got to get rid of the evidence of what I did.

00:38:04.600 But wouldn't there be something stolen out of the house if that were the case?

00:38:10.060 Absolutely.

00:38:10.700 There's always a motive for a crime.

00:38:12.560 I mentioned in your program the other day, Megan, about the double homicide in Vermont of two professors at a Dartmouth college.

00:38:20.680 My profile was initially off.

00:38:23.480 We thought it was someone they knew because the Reap family said nothing was stolen out of the house.

00:38:28.000 I told you later two teenage boys were arrested.

00:38:31.320 They stabbed both parties to death.

00:38:33.960 And they said nothing was stolen.

00:38:35.800 And then we said it's someone they know.

00:38:37.460 The guy was in business with someone in South America, and maybe there was an affair or something like that,

00:38:42.240 or a former student, didn't like the grades they got.

00:38:44.860 Well, it turns out four days later, the daughters reported cash was stolen from the house.

00:38:50.900 Somehow the daughters knew where cash was kept.

00:38:53.160 That changed everything.

00:38:54.420 That was then the crime scene became a theft, a robbery, a burglary.

00:38:59.460 They were allowed into the house.

00:39:00.520 Then they were taking a survey.

00:39:01.760 So there have been some problems with this investigation.

00:39:06.000 If it turns out that there are some missing items, but you're not going to steal missing items and the person who lives there.

00:39:13.180 You may kill the person in there if they see you, because they're not going to talk when they're dead,

00:39:17.360 if they somehow have ID or identification. 0.98

00:39:20.080 But you're wearing a mask to begin with.

00:39:21.580 So the purpose of this, whatever this break-in was, it doesn't seem to be something was stolen,

00:39:30.440 unless there's something the family is not telling us about at all.

00:39:33.700 And then for some reason, mom slash Nancy had to come along at the same time.

00:39:38.780 So no, the mission had to be to abduct this woman.

00:39:43.060 Was she the specific one?

00:39:44.340 Could it have been anyone?

00:39:45.760 That's what we still have to ask ourselves.

00:39:47.500 But it just seems so unlikely that it's like, oh, and they just happened to get Savannah Guthrie's mother.

00:39:52.820 Of all people, right.

00:39:54.140 Right.

00:39:54.600 Oh, and why don't, here, I'm here to rob the house.

00:39:56.760 I got a great idea.

00:39:57.780 Why don't you just come with me?

00:39:59.520 So get dressed.

00:40:01.060 Yeah.

00:40:01.700 You know?

00:40:02.460 Yep.

00:40:03.040 Stop bleeding.

00:40:04.340 And let's go.

00:40:04.940 Oh, yeah, one, two, and then, ow, yeah.

00:40:06.960 And then she goes down.

00:40:08.720 It seems much more likely they knew exactly who was in there.

00:40:11.780 It just seems impossible to me.

00:40:12.940 Though I understand some people there have said it took them years to know that Nancy was Savannah's mother.

00:40:20.120 Apparently she's not, like my mom, running around telling, like, the electrician and everybody.

00:40:25.500 My mom loves to tell people.

00:40:27.520 Her doctors, they all know.

00:40:30.160 I guess Nancy was more reserved about that fact, which my mom and I have had some laughs over the past week.

00:40:37.940 We've been laughing and worrying together.

00:40:40.100 You know, gallows humor on our own account.

00:40:42.940 But in any event, so it is possible that her, that the locals didn't know that this was Savannah Guthrie's mom.

00:40:49.140 But it just seems too extraordinary to think it had nothing to do with the reason she was chosen.

00:40:53.620 I want to keep going because there's a couple of other things that I've got to ask you guys about.

00:40:58.380 This is just breaking now.

00:40:59.860 Okay.

00:41:00.720 Here we are again.

00:41:02.680 I'm sorry to even raise it, but I have to.

00:41:04.780 TMZ just says it just received a third email from the man who claims he knows the identity of Nancy Guthrie's killer.

00:41:15.640 Sorry, kidnapper.

00:41:17.020 And that he's now upped his price.

00:41:18.820 Remember, he was going to give us that information for the low, low price of one Bitcoin, about 65 grand.

00:41:23.600 No, he's pissed now.

00:41:24.840 The email says he's contacting TMZ because he doesn't trust law enforcement, but he trusts Harvey Levin, who spends most of his time talking about celebrity news inside the 30-mile zone or Los Angeles.

00:41:39.800 Okay, he's essentially using TMZ as an intermediary, telling authorities, you don't trust me, I don't trust you.

00:41:47.740 He suggests the reward is now, he says, oh, he suggests the FBI reward, having been doubled to $100,000, because that happened yesterday after our show, was a move designed, quote, to discredit me.

00:42:01.020 Now he wants the $100,000 from the FBI, and here's how.

00:42:05.640 He's asking for a fraction of Bitcoin worth $50,000, and in return he will give up the information, and then he expects another $50,000 in Bitcoin.

00:42:15.720 He promises not to withdraw the first $50,000 until the kidnapper is arrested.

00:42:21.500 There's another important change.

00:42:23.660 He says when he gets the initial payment, he will give up, quote, the name of the main individual. 0.97

00:42:30.860 Referring to the main individual, suggesting possibly that there are accomplices, but this fucker, excuse me, like, what's happening here? 0.99

00:42:44.640 You're both shaking your heads. 0.99

00:42:45.720 Why are they coming through you? 0.54

00:42:47.800 I'm good, it's fine.

00:42:49.240 They don't need to go through me, but I have to say, like, Harvey Levin is milking this for everything it's worth.

00:42:55.480 I just feel like he's too salacious, he's too eager to put himself out there and see himself on TV every night with Aaron Burnett and then with Sean and then with others.

00:43:06.120 It's like he's, forgive me, because I have nothing against Harvey, but he's, to me, undermining the credibility that he had when he reported the initial ransom notes or whatever we're referring to the original communications.

00:43:17.500 We could almost say he's an opportunist taking advantage of the opportunist who's taking advantage of the abduction of Nancy Guthrie.

00:43:24.560 I can't tell you how many times I've been in prison, jail cells with long-timers, short-timers, Marina, you can probably relate to this, and you're working with some other crimes, the guy's part of a gang, whatever, and you say, yeah, we need information on this.

00:43:36.060 Happened in the Unabom case.

00:43:37.940 When the New York Times letters, he put a nine-digit number, so it happened it was a social security number that came back to a guy in prison who was in the Manhunt Unabomber miniseries in my book.

00:43:46.280 But the point, and we went in and talked to the guy, and he said, oh, yeah, the Unabomber, yeah, I'll tell you what, you get me out of prison, I'll find this Unabomber guy for you. 0.97

00:43:54.780 Now, that's one big example of a big case, but I've done that other times with guys.

00:43:58.700 Yeah, yeah, those burglars, yeah, get me out of here for my charges, I'll find who's doing it.

00:44:02.900 No, the deal is, you tell us first, then we'll go to the prosecutor, the judge, and we'll get you a, you know, a lower sentence and maybe get you out if it's good information.

00:44:12.040 Yes.

00:44:12.540 This guy, everyone knows the rules.

00:44:13.880 Because this guy would have the $100,000. If he had the name of the kidnapper, all he'd have to do is give it up and he'd get the $100,000. He doesn't have to do any of this rigmarole.

00:44:21.200 And he can be anonymous, and we told him yesterday, the guy, whoever was at the porch, we said yesterday on your show, don't fear that guy on the porch.

00:44:27.860 He's not going to hurt you, I assure you, nor will the main guy, whoever that is supposed to be.

00:44:32.560 So, I would not take this person serious. The family, the FBI, if nothing else, they'd have to put out there, you know, publicly, and maybe we're doing it right now.

00:44:43.660 Give us a little something. Give us a little something to prove that you're valid, that you have decent information, and maybe we'll then take you serious.

00:44:52.420 And if he knows this much about the case, he can give something. Now, we're not going to know if it's true or not, but if he's this close to the information.

00:45:00.840 And now TMZ, now think about this too, and I'll let Maureen take over. So, TMZ is putting this information out.

00:45:06.940 If there's a real kidnapper or team of kidnappers holding Nancy in custody or wherever she may be at this point, they're going to be looking around at each other and saying, hey, who's talking?

00:45:16.420 Who's talking to TMZ? And they're going to start, you know, accusing each other of things. So, unless that's some wild strategy that someone's employing for that purpose alone.

00:45:24.940 But I'm not talking. No, I'm not talking. So, nothing about this makes sense.

00:45:29.120 What would you be doing with this information, Maureen, if you were investigating this case?

00:45:33.020 Well, like Fitz, I have had guys in prison on this big case we worked where they would say, if you let me out, I could solve this other one.

00:45:42.360 That seems to be something that you see a lot. And I just said, hey, you know, I like your enthusiasm, but I think it's fairly obvious I can't, like, let you walk out of prison for some vague promise.

00:45:55.620 You know, I do think this whole thing is a distraction. I think it's taken away resources from the real work that needs to be done.

00:46:03.580 And if this clown, we're starting to normalize this theory or this thought that you can just come up with your own rules and try to rewrite the way everything's been done since the beginning of time.

00:46:18.080 You cannot come in and say, give me money for absolutely nothing and, you know, and I don't have to give you anything. 0.93

00:46:25.720 This is a negotiation. He's just like the other note writers, right? Just like the original note writers who claim they have Nancy.

00:46:32.520 He's claiming, I know who has Nancy. Like, I'll give you absolutely nothing, right? And you'll give me something.

00:46:38.660 I'll give you no proof of life and you'll pay me. And this guy, it's like the FBI has already said, tell us if you know who the kidnapper is and we will give you $100,000 if it leads to his arrest.

00:46:47.900 If this guy really knows who the kidnapper is, the protocol is very simple. Any idiot could follow it. Just tell them. If you're right, you get $100,000. 0.99

00:46:57.080 But the reason they don't want to do it is because they're going to have to sit down with FBI agents who are going to identify them and check every bit of what they're saying.

00:47:07.240 And that's why they want no part of it because they have no bona fides and no position to even, you know, make these claims.

00:47:13.820 Last question before I let you guys go. There's all sorts of news today. We're going to get into it in our next panel too.

00:47:20.540 But about a turf war unfolding between Sheriff Nonos and the FBI.

00:47:25.900 That the FBI wanted to send the DNA that it's getting from the crime scene and related searches like the gloves that were found when the New York Post was tracking law enforcement to Quantico, to the FBI lab.

00:47:37.740 And that Sheriff Nonos said no. That early on he had sent things to a Florida lab he trusts and he just wants to send everybody, everything to that lab for consistency.

00:47:47.980 He says, you can trust this lab. The FBI has got a great lab too, but this lab already has been processing for us and we're going to stay with them.

00:47:55.760 And the FBI clearly has been speaking to the media, pointing the finger at him, you know, like this guy, you know, he's not cooperating.

00:48:04.540 He doesn't really want us there, which is not a good sign.

00:48:07.880 It's like my overall thought is this is not a good sign that they're on the eve of an arrest because, you know, as they say, success has a thousand fathers and failure is an orphan.

00:48:15.240 You know, once they start doing this, it's like very bad for Nancy does not does not mean they found Nancy or are close to finding her or a kidnapper.

00:48:23.680 But can I get your quick takes on the turf war?

00:48:27.120 The sheriff's denying it. The sheriff's saying we get along fine.

00:48:29.660 You know, we're not going to let the media divide us.

00:48:32.240 I happen to know there is consternation over at the FBI with this sheriff and it is his investigation.

00:48:37.200 The protocol is it belongs to the locals unless they want to give it over to the FBI or let the FBI take the lead, which he clearly doesn't.

00:48:45.080 So thoughts on him and that. Maureen.

00:48:48.860 First of all, if the sheriff is the one making the calls as to where the evidence is going, he's the one that's in charge of the investigation.

00:48:57.180 That's yes, that's the way it is.

00:48:58.820 Yep. That is what's happening.

00:49:00.700 But I mean, what do you make of are you surprised that this is happening turf war when we're, you know, so many days in.

00:49:06.760 And so little to show for it.

00:49:08.740 I've heard I've heard about this turf war for longer than I care to admit.

00:49:13.540 I think it's a leadership problem.

00:49:15.220 And I think, you know, I think the line officers and FBI agents are doing everything they can and they're just going.

00:49:23.060 They're doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing.

00:49:25.380 It's just the bosses, it sounds like, that are that are having issues with each other.

00:49:29.120 And there were, you know, to be fair, there were big issues at the Boston bombing.

00:49:32.420 And I think I'm pretty sure in that instance, one FBI boss was removed because so I know the FBI is ready, willing and able to remove someone if they're the big problem.

00:49:45.400 But here, from everything I'm hearing, because all the sheriff's deputies and former deputies and everything are all saying the same thing as the FBI agents.

00:49:54.400 So it sounds like the outlier seems to be the actual sheriff.

00:49:58.840 But the truth, the truth will prevail at some point.

00:50:03.480 They'll all be, you know, kumbayaing it fits if they find this abductor.

00:50:08.400 Yeah, an interesting combination is alpha males, high profile, unsolved case, and at least one elected official.

00:50:18.320 And you put those three together and, of course, media coverage and all those other ancillary factors in there.

00:50:24.020 It's going to create these turf wars or at least these problems.

00:50:28.280 I remember the D.C. sniper case.

00:50:30.860 It was the chief moose who was the head of Montgomery County Police Department.

00:50:33.920 He was technically in charge and there, I witnessed some shouting matches in there and going back and forth between not just the FBI, but every alphabet agency in Washington, D.C. area was involved in that case because everybody's getting shot.

00:50:47.660 Even an FBI employee eventually was killed.

00:50:50.140 So, yeah, these things are going to happen.

00:50:52.160 I just hope cooler minds prevail.

00:50:54.040 And I think Maureen touched on the important part.

00:50:55.880 The worker bees get along fine.

00:50:57.660 Even when I was on the Joint Bank Robbery Task Force in New York, the NYPD guys, the FBI guys, agents, detectives all got along great.

00:51:06.120 It's the bosses that have the personality issues, whatever.

00:51:09.120 So I'm hoping that stuff can all be put aside.

00:51:11.720 The people can get the job done on the lower level, the men and the women, you know, wearing the uniforms, carrying badges.

00:51:16.660 And we get some break on this case, hopefully over this weekend.

00:51:20.060 One other observation is where in God's earth are the mayor and the D.A. of Pima County?

00:51:27.960 How come we haven't seen or heard from them at all?

00:51:30.220 That's a good question.

00:51:31.480 At least the D.A. 0.59

00:51:32.500 Normally you'd see the D.A. getting involved in this, right?

00:51:35.000 Right.

00:51:35.800 Do they feel the same way?

00:51:36.960 Because isn't that who the sheriff would be working with to get any warrants, you know?

00:51:42.460 And even the FBI would have to work through, right?

00:51:44.520 Wouldn't the FBI go to the local prosecutor to get warrants if they need them?

00:51:48.980 Yeah, maybe.

00:51:50.040 Or the U.S. attorney in that district.

00:51:52.280 But yeah, I mean, I wouldn't expect the U.S. attorney to say anything.

00:51:55.020 They never do.

00:51:55.600 But yeah, the local D.A.s would normally be speaking out.

00:51:58.540 You're right.

00:51:59.040 Maybe they don't want to step on this guy's toes.

00:52:01.960 I mean, I'm concerned because he's an elected official, the sheriff.

00:52:07.480 He knows it's a celebrity case.

00:52:09.040 I'm like, let me just say this.

00:52:11.660 You'd think that when you're well-known, right?

00:52:14.320 Like Savannah's very well-known.

00:52:15.540 You'd get the red carpet treatment and you'd get better treatment than like the average person.

00:52:23.380 I mean, I think that's what the average person thinks, that these celebrities get like the red carpet and like a level up.

00:52:29.500 And there's no question that if this were, you know, some Jane Smith, 84-year-old woman, we would not have anywhere near this level of media coverage or law enforcement coverage and not anywhere near.

00:52:41.400 So there is some of that, but there's also the risk of like what happened to Kobe Bryant where like that helicopter pilot flew when he had to know he shouldn't have because it was Kobe Bryant.

00:52:53.760 And he didn't want to tell him no.

00:52:55.980 And he didn't just follow protocol because it was Kobe Bryant.

00:53:01.000 And like I've had some of this in my own life too, where you're like, it's actually not a gift for them to treat you in any special way whatsoever.

00:53:08.200 I just want to be treated just like you would treat anybody else.

00:53:10.560 And so like if this sheriff is holding on to this case and not sending evidence where, you know, he could voice this off on the FBI and it could be their problem, that'd be great.

00:53:20.440 But like, does he really want to take himself off of the Savannah Guthrie case and not be the one to bring Nancy home and possibly get all the glory?

00:53:31.060 You know, I don't think he's yet at the phase where he's like, I'm going to get all the blame if I don't solve this.

00:53:35.120 And I wonder whether that's hurting this case.

00:53:37.560 Some of these personality issues can definitely chime in here.

00:53:44.140 And you articulated them well, Megan.

00:53:46.700 I kind of touched on it, you know, a few minutes ago.

00:53:50.560 But a true and either the pilot you referred to with Kobe Bryant and others, if you're a true professional, if you have hopefully decades, you know, one, one and a half plus decades of experience, you know not to fall for those traps.

00:54:05.200 You know not to let your guard down.

00:54:06.820 You know not to back off on what's gotten you to where you are at this point in time.

00:54:11.680 And I'm not saying, you know, we're going to give the benefit of the doubt despite some, you know, people at loggerheads.

00:54:18.180 I'm going to assume the investigation is still running the best it can at this point in time with a number of agencies involved, including our own, me and Maureen, the FBI.

00:54:26.880 And I'm just hoping that some of this is just, you know, fodder for the media, let other people think this is what's happening.

00:54:33.020 Maybe some of it's true, but we're still going to get the job done.

00:54:35.620 But if you're truly experienced, you're going to get it done right.

00:54:38.080 Maureen, don't you think some of this is coming because the media is used to CSI and they think this should be solved already?

00:54:45.440 And there's a lot of pressure on the law enforcement, FBI and local in why haven't you solved this case?

00:54:52.440 And so that's when you start to see stories planted of it's him, you know, this guy, right?

00:55:00.120 And then now he feels the need to fight back and he's given an interview to Matt Finn of Fox News, which we're going to talk about a little bit more with our next panel.

00:55:05.700 But to me, this this has a little bit of that in it.

00:55:11.140 I don't I don't know.

00:55:12.680 I think I really think everyone's heart.

00:55:16.420 Well, most everyone, except for a couple of outliers.

00:55:19.260 I think their hearts in the right place and they're just pushing as hard as they can and they're trying as hard and they're working longer and overtime shifts left, right and center.

00:55:28.600 And, you know, I think people are really trying because that's been my experience on all these big.

00:55:34.380 And there are times where you see breakdowns and meaning like it's it just gets to be too much, all of it.

00:55:41.360 I think the media does add a whole bunch of extra pressure.

00:55:45.500 But then there's someone out there like Brian Enten, who's, you know, out there making news for for everyone and doing doing a good job.

00:55:53.780 So everyone knows that the stakes are high.

00:55:57.160 The scrutiny is even higher.

00:55:59.040 And, you know, that's when you just have to put your head down and keep your ammo dry and keep going and hope to God you've got a good leader that's going to get you what you need.

00:56:10.980 Stay out of your way and keep everyone off your back.

00:56:13.800 That's their job.

00:56:15.380 And too many forget that.

00:56:16.780 Just like managers are the worst in a situation like this.

00:56:20.460 I'm sure that's true.

00:56:21.760 I just fight crime.

00:56:22.740 I mean, just like Cash has said, let cops be cops.

00:56:25.900 Hopefully that's what's happening at the federal level and the local level.

00:56:29.880 Guys, thank you both so much.

00:56:31.260 Have a great weekend.

00:56:32.040 We appreciate it.

00:56:33.260 Thank you.

00:56:34.060 Bye, Maureen.

00:56:35.000 All right.

00:56:35.200 We're going to bring in our next panel, too, because there's a lot more to discuss.

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00:58:50.320 My guests who join me now are Chad Ayers, James Hamilton, and Will Geddes, who you've come to know well this week.

00:59:00.700 And they're going to weigh in on some of these latest developments, including they were listening to the last discussion.

00:59:04.640 Let's just pick it up where we left it off, guys, on this alleged turf war.

00:59:08.120 I want to tell you what the sheriff is saying, because the reason he gave an interview when he came out earlier this week and said, I'm not giving any interviews.

00:59:15.160 I'm done. I'm done with that right now, not unless there's breaking news.

00:59:17.860 But he gave an interview to Fox News' Matt Finn on a lot of things.

00:59:22.580 Let me just give you some of the highlights, because he did make news in the case proper, as opposed to just the turf war.

00:59:28.100 He says, first of all, it is not true that his office found a glove at Nancy's home.

00:59:33.180 There had been a news report that, in addition to that pair of gloves that were found on the road, that a glove had been found inside Nancy Guthrie's house and that it had been shipped off.

00:59:43.740 He said, that's not true. We have no glove. We have never found a glove on the property.

00:59:47.500 He did say, though, that they have found a lot of gloves, not just the pair that the New York Post happened to be on site when they retrieved in this case.

00:59:55.940 You know, to the point we were discussing yesterday, it's not that unusual to see gloves discarded in, you know, the desert near cacti and so on.

01:00:05.060 He said they've all been sent off.

01:00:06.480 And he defended his use of that one lab, saying, we started sending the Guthrie evidence to this lab from the start, and along with the Guthrie family DNA and other DNA swabs are all there, too.

01:00:18.920 So it makes sense, he said, to keep sending the incoming evidence there so the lab can immediately run the new evidence against what is already in-house.

01:00:27.040 Hold on a second, because he says that in Soundbite 6, which we have on tape.

01:00:31.800 I split your evidence to two different labs. That could create a conflict, but more importantly, it adds that additional step.

01:00:39.300 This lab has this piece, this lab has this piece. Now they've got to converge those two pieces to make an elimination or identification.

01:00:49.580 No, just send it to one lab. Let's go. They're both great labs.

01:00:53.260 Okay, so let's start there, guys. What do we make of that argument? Because some people really are hammering him for not using the FBI's lab at Quantico.

01:01:02.900 James is the former FBI-er. I'll start with you on that.

01:01:06.060 Hey, good to see you again. Thanks for having me. I feel almost clairvoyant in that yesterday, I think we said this exact same thing.

01:01:13.260 And we said that, you know, that everything looks good on the outside, but behind the scenes, there's going to be friction, and here we are.

01:01:21.320 I'm not surprised by it at all. There is some pretty good evidence that, you know, no pun intended, that the FBI lab at Quantico is a superior choice.

01:01:32.800 And mostly because they do this all the time, they created the technology, they have access to the CODIS database.

01:01:39.720 You know, it's a high-profile case, but, you know, the sheriff made a call, and obviously people aren't happy about it, and they're going to try to drive a wedge.

01:01:49.560 And I think you were spot on earlier when you were saying that, you know, we haven't caught anybody, and now it's looking bad, and now we're going to start pointing fingers.

01:01:56.680 And this is very, very common.

01:02:00.020 It's a bad, bad sign. Just as a reporter on the outside, I know when they start doing this, it's bad.

01:02:05.840 It means they're not getting anywhere.

01:02:08.180 That's right.

01:02:08.540 And so it almost, to me, took out a big eraser and erased all of our leads. 0.96

01:02:12.600 Like, I think, I'm starting to think now they're all bullshit, because they don't seem close to arresting somebody well. 0.97

01:02:19.320 They don't talk like this when they're close to arresting somebody. 0.99

01:02:21.520 No. I mean, certainly my experience on negotiations, one of the biggest, biggest challenges is just trying to control information.

01:02:29.560 And that's information that's not only imparted by the law enforcement agencies, if they are involved, or it could be the media, or it could actually be the family itself.

01:02:38.880 So it's about containment of that information, not setting designated schedules for updates or anything like that, and being very cautious about what information is going to be revealed that could potentially heed the law enforcement agencies or the investigative agencies that are getting involved in this.

01:02:54.000 So I think there is some ego that's kicking off here with the sheriff, and I think, you know, he's bathing in the spotlight right now as being the sort of the center point for this.

01:03:05.440 And that's concerning, because, I mean, how many cases of this type has he managed before?

01:03:10.800 And it's only with a lot of years' experience that you realize, actually, the less you say, you know, the better.

01:03:16.560 Mm-hmm. Yes, I know. I mean, well, Chad, there's been the difference between the sheriff two Mondays ago and the sheriff that has emerged this week, right?

01:03:25.880 Like, when this case first broke, he was talking to everybody.

01:03:29.100 And that seemed okay, because it was a missing persons case.

01:03:31.960 It was like, we all have to find her. We need the community's help.

01:03:34.220 Everybody pitch in, find Nancy, all hands on deck.

01:03:36.980 And then the FBI got involved, and then suddenly he wasn't saying as much.

01:03:40.880 And then they held that Thursday presser, and they haven't had a presser since.

01:03:44.180 And now since then, it's just been rumor, innuendo, accusations behind the scenes, you know, some leaks to the media, then some denials.

01:03:52.820 It feels more like disarray.

01:03:56.020 Yeah, I mean, that's the frustrating part.

01:03:57.960 And I think the sad part through all of this is, at the end of the day, there's still a family that's looking for their missing mother. 0.98

01:04:05.560 And this isn't the type of bullshit they need to be hearing or having to deal with. 0.96

01:04:09.880 So, listen, I've worked plenty of cases with, you know, three-letter agencies, whether it was the FBI, the DEA. 0.98

01:04:17.400 And sometimes, listen, you've got to lower your pride a little bit and realize that, listen, I was a local law enforcement officer, and I understand the resources that the Bureau has.

01:04:28.740 And so it's not them coming over here and trying to take a part of my case.

01:04:33.560 It's us trying to work together, and that's really what needs to happen.

01:04:36.640 Like, there's so much tension right now in this case because it's such a high-profile case.

01:04:42.440 People want answers immediately.

01:04:44.480 But, guys, we've got to come together and work together because there's a family that is heartbroken and grieving right now.

01:04:50.160 It's got to stop.

01:04:51.740 I know.

01:04:52.640 I can't help but wonder, and who would know?

01:04:55.160 I mean, no one has experience, no civilian, in dealing with a kidnapping.

01:04:58.780 Oh, I know exactly what to do or who to call.

01:05:00.860 But, you know, it's been confirmed that Savannah's first – one of her first calls was to Senator Mark Kelly, who is her home state senator, the state of Arizona, a U.S. senator, Gabby Gifford's husband.

01:05:11.780 And kind of asked him for help and, like, let's line things up appropriately.

01:05:16.960 And it looks like they went with the locals.

01:05:20.040 They put the locals in the lead, and they trusted the sheriff, and they didn't insist, as I think you probably could try to, that the FBI got brought in, which is, you know, kidnappings and, you know, possible ransom.

01:05:32.860 That's, I guess, when the sheriff called in on the ransom, the FBI.

01:05:36.600 But, like, one wonders whether the FBI should have been there day one, James, and, like, running hurt on this.

01:05:44.620 Yeah, you've got to be careful on this just because they don't have the jurisdiction.

01:05:47.920 You know, they have to have –

01:05:48.880 If they got the invitation.

01:05:50.520 Definitely.

01:05:51.100 If they get the invitation, that's absolutely right.

01:05:53.340 But if there is, you know, some ego in these relationships, as Chad's saying, they're not always great.

01:06:00.480 And it really, you know, it depends.

01:06:02.180 It's not great here.

01:06:03.180 Right.

01:06:03.520 There's a history between this sheriff and the FBI, and it's not good.

01:06:06.780 Yeah, exactly.

01:06:07.500 And you see these things play out, and this is what's happening.

01:06:10.120 And, you know, he has to ask.

01:06:12.260 Now, if we had solid evidence that she had, God forbid, been taken to Mexico, international kidnapping, the FBI is going to be at the lead.

01:06:19.620 If we had information, it went across state lines, FBI.

01:06:23.480 But right now, they just don't have that federal nexus that they can come in, you know, in the typical movie fashion, and FBI, we're in charge.

01:06:31.740 They don't have that.

01:06:33.040 And so now they're really just at the, you know, the behest of this sheriff, and it's causing conflict, clearly.

01:06:39.000 I'm going to show you something on this sheriff and the FBI from yesteryear.

01:06:43.860 Okay.

01:06:44.140 This is November – no, I don't know the month.

01:06:46.320 It's 2016, February, February 12th, 2016, in an interview with KGUN.

01:06:52.160 And he is ripping on the FBI because they were investigating his department's spending, and he didn't much appreciate that.

01:07:00.340 Sat 10.

01:07:01.780 When it comes to an FBI investigation, I was taken back by that as much as anybody.

01:07:07.560 Here's an agency who, for years, has been known to deny or acknowledge or anything about any kind of investigation.

01:07:18.620 They're famous for that.

01:07:19.860 Am I upset at the FBI?

01:07:21.280 Absolutely.

01:07:22.300 They should be.

01:07:23.020 They get by with saying, no comment.

01:07:26.700 Who does that in today's world? 0.99

01:07:29.040 Who does that?

01:07:29.840 I think the FBI, if they are having problems during criminal investigations, please call us because we have real policemen here.

01:07:35.680 We'll do that for you because, obviously, they can't get it done.

01:07:40.100 I'm upset at that and I'm upset at the inappropriateness of their investigative efforts.

01:07:44.920 And they are inappropriate.

01:07:45.980 All right.

01:07:48.840 It was 10 years ago, but, Will, it's on camera.

01:07:51.760 It's tough to dispute.

01:07:53.280 They're investigating him and his sheriff's department.

01:07:56.380 Yeah.

01:07:56.920 He's got a massive chip on his shoulder towards the Bureau.

01:08:00.280 That's inevitable.

01:08:01.280 And I think he's obviously not very happy about having to reengage with them and not allow him to do the proper police work, as he puts it.

01:08:08.900 But one of my concerns, Megan, that I did want to raise, which sort of goes back a little bit, is about the classification of what this case actually is.

01:08:17.360 In the private sector, you know, we have one of the advantages we have is that we don't actually have to interact with media agencies.

01:08:24.740 We can keep it completely under wraps and keep it very, very quiet.

01:08:28.040 But at the same time, when we're talking to the family, if someone has gone missing, it's always going to be a missing person until such time as a credible proof of life has been sent with a ransom demand.

01:08:42.020 And my concern is that this has been classified as a kidnapping.

01:08:45.680 There has been no credible proof of life that has been provided yet.

01:08:49.640 So, again, it changes the dynamic somewhat in how it would be approached.

01:08:54.600 And, again, I very much welcome Chad and James's input on that from their perspective as well.

01:09:00.440 Right. Should they be treating this as, I've heard one of you guys call it, a homicide nobody as opposed to kidnapping?

01:09:09.980 Well, before Chad jumps in, I would say real quick with regards to that interview, the FBI is the only one that investigates cops.

01:09:17.780 Now, the state police can do it, and certainly there's IAs in, you know, bigger metropolitan divisions.

01:09:23.220 But the FBI by, you know, charter, they work color law violations against police.

01:09:29.880 They're the only ones that do it.

01:09:31.120 And so it obviously ruffles feathers.

01:09:33.280 And, you know, I've been involved in those, and it's not comfortable at all.

01:09:37.420 So I understand the sheriff's frustration.

01:09:39.380 But that video was quite interesting.

01:09:44.660 Thanks for showing that.

01:09:45.740 Here's another one.

01:09:46.540 And we'll go back to whether this should be declared homicide nobody.

01:09:48.920 Put a pin in that for a second, Will, because there's another one.

01:09:51.760 The undersheriff out there who is now former undersheriff under this sheriff, Nanos, is named Rick Castegar.

01:09:59.920 And he spoke to Brian Enten.

01:10:03.000 It doesn't appear that they get along, he and his former boss.

01:10:06.040 And here's what he said, Sat 9.

01:10:08.120 It should have been recognized initially that once this is labeled an abduction, get a task force together and bring on the FBI and ask them to take it over.

01:10:21.660 Why do you think that didn't happen?

01:10:23.180 Unfortunately, the sheriff, Chris Nanos, has an exorbitant ego.

01:10:30.460 And he, in one case I can think of prior to this one, told the FBI he's the better investigator and he doesn't need their help.

01:10:38.740 And that was a critical case that we needed their help with.

01:10:42.120 This one in particular, they have far more resources than the sheriff's department has.

01:10:49.960 Go ahead, Chad.

01:10:50.900 It's kind of funny how the FBI says no comment came full circle back to him and every one of his press conferences that he's given so far.

01:10:59.560 That's funny to me.

01:11:00.900 What's frustrating, though, is the fact that he cannot humble himself enough.

01:11:05.260 We have an 84-year-old missing woman, and I'm not here to beat this thing to death. 0.95

01:11:10.100 But listen, you don't have the resources.

01:11:12.860 You are.

01:11:13.660 Listen, Megan, I said it day one on your show probably over a week ago.

01:11:16.480 So I feel like the sheriff is in over his head.

01:11:19.600 We need to rely solely on the Bureau.

01:11:22.200 Humble yourself.

01:11:23.300 Your investigators, listen, people out there are telling me I've got a buddy of mine that's out there in the area that's affiliated with that law enforcement agency.

01:11:31.360 Not directly, but is very close to those people in saying that the investigators want the help of the Bureau, but the upper management is the one that's knocking that down.

01:11:38.860 That's what Maureen seemed to be saying.

01:11:40.360 She said, I guarantee you the rank and file would love the help, but the leadership is a different story.

01:11:45.220 Here's what President Trump said, which is, I will say, telling.

01:11:49.280 Listen to Trump in SOT 12.

01:11:52.900 Hasn't the FBI taken over the Nancy Beckery case as the lead investigator?

01:11:57.840 Do you have any updates on how it's going?

01:11:59.580 Well, they took it over originally, you know, it was a local case originally, and they didn't want to let go of it, which is fine.

01:12:06.560 It's up to them.

01:12:07.240 It's really up to the community.

01:12:09.000 But ultimately, when the FBI got involved, I think, you know, progress has been made.

01:12:14.820 Okay, so that last part.

01:12:16.480 Ultimately, when the FBI got involved, progress has been made.

01:12:19.260 Which, you know, in Trump speak, he's basically saying, we're the ones getting things done.

01:12:23.980 And what you guys said, we can't take it over unless this sheriff asks us to take it over.

01:12:30.300 And far from asking that, he's holding on to it.

01:12:33.380 He's making decisions that it sounds like the FBI disagrees with by not using the FBI's lab at Quantico.

01:12:39.240 I don't know.

01:12:40.000 You tell me, James, is it like, Jim, is the FBI's lab at Quantico so special that nothing could be, it can't be replicated by some good lab in Florida?

01:12:49.620 Well, it's the premier criminal lab in the world.

01:12:54.460 So that's probably better than the one in Florida.

01:12:57.580 It does have, again, access to that DNA database.

01:13:00.640 So that's what you need.

01:13:01.740 You need to, okay, we run the test, but what are we going to do with it?

01:13:05.380 Well, we need to compare it for a human being.

01:13:07.220 And how do you do that?

01:13:08.780 Well, that lab in Florida is going to have to ask the FBI for access to the CODIS system.

01:13:13.240 So it's another step that you don't have to be making if we just go direct to the FBI.

01:13:16.600 But I really want to circle back real quick to the videos because you've got the sheriff saying, and this is very typical, the sheriff saying, you know, we're the real cops.

01:13:25.880 We're the real law enforcement.

01:13:27.480 You know, the FBI doesn't know how to work a case.

01:13:29.240 We're the real cops.

01:13:30.360 And then you heard his former deputy chief say, yeah, he thinks he's the only one that can investigate anything.

01:13:36.560 And, you know, frankly, I don't, you know, I can't tell you how many people I worked with in my academy class who were former cops.

01:13:43.740 I'm a former cop, but we don't go around beating our chest about it, but you don't get any credit for it.

01:13:49.600 You know, that sheriff would have you think that the FBI doesn't have a soul that ever worked law enforcement before they got to the bureau.

01:13:56.340 And that's just nonsense.

01:13:57.400 That's very telling.

01:14:00.480 That's actually quite interesting because it dovetails perfectly with his behavior that he is running herd on it, that we are getting some quiet complaints from the feds that they're not getting the cooperation they need.

01:14:11.600 And they think is necessary to solve the case.

01:14:15.040 And now you have Nanos, who clearly is worried about his image, because why would he be sitting down doing an interview when he said, I'm not giving any interviews, two thirds of which was spent on this turf war if he weren't worried about his image.

01:14:27.880 And also, I think I'm sorry, James, go ahead.

01:14:31.460 Well, Chad and I both come from, you know, southern sheriff's departments.

01:14:36.160 These sheriffs are terribly powerful.

01:14:37.940 I mean, terribly powerful.

01:14:40.120 And so when people are talking about why in the mayor or the DA there, because the sheriff doesn't work for the mayor.

01:14:45.100 He doesn't work for the DA.

01:14:46.680 The sheriff is the highest elected official in the county.

01:14:49.320 And that plays out.

01:14:51.200 It may not play out in L.A. or New York or Dallas or Houston, but I see it in the south all the time.

01:14:57.320 I'm sure Chad has seen it where he was.

01:15:00.000 But James, we saw it at Spartanburg County just recently.

01:15:02.720 There you go.

01:15:04.240 Why?

01:15:04.500 What happened in Spartanburg County?

01:15:05.780 The sheriff was buying pills and on a pill binger and going to dope dealers and buying pills from deputies that had back surgery.

01:15:14.400 And we're not even talking about Alex Murdoch.

01:15:17.620 That'll come later on.

01:15:19.520 That also was in the south.

01:15:21.380 Will, go ahead.

01:15:23.120 Yeah, no, I was just going to sort of just compliment what James and Chad were saying.

01:15:26.420 And I mean, and certainly from my experience around the world, you know, when I've been connected to kidnappings in some shape or form, the FBI, if this does turn out to be a kidnapping and a credible proof of life is presented, then the FBI are one of the best, if not the best negotiators and crisis managers of these types of events.

01:15:46.680 So I'm sorry, Sheriff, you know, get back in your lane, because to be honest, he's stepping well beyond his capability and should be leaving it to the experts to get on with it and compliment him.

01:15:56.900 Especially at this point when we're not, we don't appear.

01:16:00.480 I mean, I want to say we don't appear close to solving it.

01:16:04.020 That's not how this feels.

01:16:05.200 Maybe right now somebody who knows masked man is calling the FBI with a tip and this thing gets solved by midnight tonight.

01:16:13.140 I mean, that could happen at any moment, but very discouraging that it hasn't happened so far.

01:16:17.240 It seems like if somebody called saying, I know who that is, they would make it to the top of the tip line, right?

01:16:25.600 I mean, there's a system for that.

01:16:26.980 Is there not?

01:16:27.480 It's not like it's just going to be sitting in the midst of the 4,000 and they have to go through them one by one.

01:16:31.940 Like the person who's like, I know who that is, does get forwarded up and that goes quickly.

01:16:36.720 Does it not, Jim?

01:16:37.440 Yeah.

01:16:37.820 And look what happened yesterday.

01:16:39.340 Again, like you and I are clairvoyant.

01:16:41.500 What do they do?

01:16:42.360 They raised the reward to 100 grand.

01:16:44.880 You are clairvoyant.

01:16:46.200 Here you are.

01:16:47.360 Wait, we pulled it actually.

01:16:48.760 This happened on our show yesterday, Sot5.

01:16:52.100 I'm shocked that we're only talking 50,000 bucks right now.

01:16:55.660 I mean, that reward, that's a joke.

01:16:57.960 Really?

01:16:58.320 Amp it up?

01:16:59.200 Hell yeah.

01:16:59.940 $50,000, that's nothing.

01:17:02.500 What should it be?

01:17:03.860 I put it up to half a million dollars.

01:17:05.680 It's 11, 12 days now.

01:17:07.640 I want this woman back. 0.98

01:17:09.240 What's 500 grand?

01:17:10.720 We got that kind of money.

01:17:11.960 For me, let's get some strong, strong interest to identify these people.

01:17:18.140 You're not worried that it's going to incentivize the crazies?

01:17:21.140 I think they're incentivized already.

01:17:22.840 We're dropping Bitcoin money and that's already happened.

01:17:26.380 Those horses have left the barn, as we say, where I come from.

01:17:31.240 Called it.

01:17:32.180 There you go.

01:17:32.500 Not quite a half a million yet, Jim, but you called it.

01:17:34.860 Well, I mean, gosh, and that shows the FBI is like, we need to get some pressure here

01:17:39.920 and we need to get these people identified.

01:17:42.160 And I was glad to see it, but wow.

01:17:46.120 Let's keep going a little higher.

01:17:48.060 And let me keep going on the Nanos interview and get to some of the news he made non-Turf 1.00

01:17:52.240 war related.

01:17:53.400 On the ransom notes and their legitimacy, he punted and said the FBI is the expert at that

01:17:58.200 one and he wouldn't comment.

01:17:59.300 On whether this is a kidnapping, Will, or something else, he says, quote, we believe it's a kidnapping,

01:18:05.700 but, quote, you always consider all possibilities.

01:18:08.460 Okay.

01:18:09.420 He did, the sheriff said in a local news interview, Matt Finn notes in his Fox News report, that

01:18:15.360 they found a few different gloves in the area, some miles away.

01:18:18.240 On this topic, he told Fox News, they are not necessarily prioritizing every glove.

01:18:22.940 For example, they're getting calls of gloves in Phoenix a long way away.

01:18:26.360 So news of every glove that's found may not be critical.

01:18:30.200 When asked whether anybody has been ruled out, the answer was, quote, nobody is ever really

01:18:34.980 eliminated.

01:18:35.940 When they talked about the Rio Rico man in Arizona, Carlos, who was the DoorDash delivery man who

01:18:43.380 got roughed up a bit by the officers the other night and then they moved on.

01:18:47.580 He said that he was a delivery person who was, quote, in the area of Nancy's house, quote,

01:18:54.860 more than one, end quote, issue led the sheriff to the Rio Rico man.

01:19:00.200 After talking, the sheriff feels satisfied with his alibi.

01:19:04.180 So notwithstanding his nobody's ever really eliminated comment, it sounds like he has eliminated

01:19:07.940 poor Carlos.

01:19:09.660 Nonos will not confirm to Fox if there was forced entry at Nancy's house or whether the

01:19:14.340 front or back door was used.

01:19:15.740 He's still not giving it up on that.

01:19:17.780 Nonos, of course, Ashley Banfield's reporting is that there was forced entry and they used

01:19:21.280 the back door.

01:19:22.240 Nonos said Nancy's blood was found outside of her home and Nancy's DNA was recovered inside,

01:19:26.720 but cannot confirm that the DNA inside the house was blood.

01:19:32.640 On the criticism that he released the Guthrie crime scene house too soon, opened it up too

01:19:37.160 quick.

01:19:37.600 He said it's not true.

01:19:39.420 They got what they needed.

01:19:40.420 Finn writes, I asked him if they should have cleaned up the blood out of sanctity and he

01:19:45.520 said that's not their role.

01:19:46.700 Said it's a slap to his team to say that they left too soon.

01:19:49.800 Also says the deputy cars out front now are at the request of the family for safety.

01:19:54.340 It's not that the sheriff is signaling they left too soon.

01:19:57.980 On allegations that family members are involved, the family has been fully 100% completely, whatever

01:20:05.260 we've asked for, they've done.

01:20:07.540 It was getting crazy out there with allegations about the family.

01:20:10.740 You can't accuse people of a horrific crime like that and not have any facts behind it.

01:20:15.500 But in the same interview, he does say that no one has ever really ruled out as of today.

01:20:20.340 Nanos has talked to Savannah.

01:20:21.880 He says they've talked and texted, but she doesn't need to talk to the sheriff.

01:20:26.480 She has people, quote, the whole family has my number.

01:20:31.080 Okay, that's odd.

01:20:33.000 And then one final comment on the FBI on reports in previous incidents suggesting they don't

01:20:37.280 have a good relationship.

01:20:38.260 He with the FBI, you Google what you Google, you read what you read.

01:20:41.580 I've got no response.

01:20:42.980 I've always had a good relationship with the FBI.

01:20:45.180 They're a good team.

01:20:46.340 They're good people.

01:20:47.200 And there was another comment where he said an officer, like a lower guy in the FBI had

01:20:54.280 said to him, like, let's not let the media divide us.

01:20:57.180 It's not the media.

01:20:58.520 The media is making the reports, but they're getting this from obviously federal sources

01:21:02.480 who are not happy with this sheriff.

01:21:05.160 Let's go to the substance here.

01:21:07.360 I mean, I think it's very interesting the part about how he's defending, turning over the

01:21:13.160 crime scene.

01:21:13.740 I mean, guys, just today, I mean, she's not found, okay?

01:21:17.580 Like, we don't even know if this was a kidnapping or a murder.

01:21:21.040 Exactly.

01:21:21.420 So it's very disturbing that just any Tom, Dick, or Harry can walk up there, as one did

01:21:25.940 when our own Phil Holloway was still there this morning filming.

01:21:28.980 And a woman walked up. 1.00

01:21:31.020 I believe we have this.

01:21:32.140 Again, I can't communicate to my team when I'm remote, so forgive me, because I don't

01:21:34.540 know if we have a soundbite.

01:21:35.180 A woman walked up, and her dog peed on, yeah, here it is, peed on the crime scene.

01:21:43.700 This is the neighbor.

01:21:44.960 There she is.

01:21:46.080 Her dog took a pee on the crime scene, which I'm kind of guessing that's not ideal.

01:21:52.180 You guys tell me.

01:21:54.400 I mean, I'm sitting there thinking, didn't we just have a tarp and a tent set up yesterday

01:21:58.940 to continue the process of this crime scene?

01:22:01.880 Really and truly, that whole property needs to be roped off and secured until Nancy Guthrie 1.00

01:22:08.760 is found dead or alive.

01:22:11.160 That's still a crime scene.

01:22:12.060 For some reason, we still, you know, agents keep coming back.

01:22:15.560 Law enforcement keeps coming back.

01:22:17.300 For some reason, if the family is not at, you know, Annie and Tommaso's house, and they

01:22:22.060 keep going back there, personally, both of those need to be secured, taped off, nobody

01:22:27.580 in and out, unless it's an investigator at this point.

01:22:30.580 Yeah, because you tell me, Will, but don't you, you don't know what's relevant to look

01:22:36.340 at for sure until you know what crime you're dealing with.

01:22:40.520 Like, you come in, do an initial survey, you take a guess, you proceed.

01:22:43.680 But, like, there may be something they learn when and if they catch this guy that then they

01:22:49.140 want to go back into that house and check out again.

01:22:51.320 And there's no reason to release it.

01:22:53.160 Nancy's not in it. 0.91

01:22:54.200 And if we get her back, she can stay with her other daughter, Annie, down the road.

01:22:59.160 Absolutely.

01:22:59.840 It should be a sterile area.

01:23:01.280 Megan, you're absolutely right about the whole area just basically being sealed off until

01:23:05.860 such time as we can determine what's happened to Nancy.

01:23:10.060 Because right now, she's just evaporated.

01:23:13.140 We don't know where she is.

01:23:14.340 We don't know in what capacity.

01:23:15.900 We don't know what the motive was of the individual that broke into the house or individuals

01:23:20.240 as yet to be confirmed.

01:23:22.660 And ultimately, it really comes down to the fact that this environment needs to be left

01:23:26.200 alone because there could be some subsequent information or intelligence that is brought

01:23:30.400 to the attention of the Bureau or of the sheriff or to the sheriff that they may want to revisit

01:23:35.520 the house and look for something.

01:23:37.780 I seriously doubt within the last two weeks they've intrinsically and forensically gone through

01:23:43.140 that house in every part.

01:23:45.360 Yeah, I have the same doubt.

01:23:46.720 What do you make, Jim, of his comment about the families?

01:23:50.240 Saying, the family's been fully, whatever we've asked for, they've done.

01:23:54.920 It was getting crazy out there with allegations about the family.

01:23:57.240 You can't accuse people of a horrific crime like that and not have any facts behind it.

01:24:01.280 Now, this, of course, is a reference to Ashley Banfield's reporting week one.

01:24:07.080 It hit on the Tuesday after Nancy disappeared, which was the wee hours of a Sunday morning,

01:24:12.080 that her law enforcement source, impeccable, she describes him or her, high up, she says,

01:24:17.300 that she's known for years, said, as of that day, right now, the brother-in-law, Tomas,

01:24:25.420 is maybe the prime suspect.

01:24:28.520 Now, she has said, even this weekend, just up until yesterday, she has said, nothing's

01:24:33.360 changed.

01:24:34.140 She talks to this person every day.

01:24:35.580 And this person has not said, no, we've gone in a different direction.

01:24:40.540 And I asked her personally, let me ask you if this person is in a position to know.

01:24:44.740 And the question was basically trying to get at, is this like just some rando in the FBI?

01:24:50.160 Or is this somebody who's actually on the investigation?

01:24:52.480 That was the implicit gist of the question.

01:24:55.300 And she said, yes, this person is in a position to know the facts of the investigation.

01:24:59.200 So you tell me what you make of that sheriff's answer, Jim.

01:25:02.060 Well, he's playing both sides against the middle.

01:25:04.140 He's saying that, you know, they've given 100 percent.

01:25:07.160 I hate that, by the way, 100 percent cooperation or something.

01:25:10.820 And that but you can't rule out anyone.

01:25:13.600 Well, which one is it?

01:25:15.000 And so, right.

01:25:16.140 We're kind of playing both sides there.

01:25:18.540 And I didn't want to really quick go back to the comment.

01:25:21.480 And he said that it's not their job to clean up the blood.

01:25:25.400 Yes, I agree with you and Chad and and will that it was given up too soon.

01:25:31.240 And now, by the way, when you go back with your white tent to get whatever it's compromised, OK, defense attorney is going to have a field day with that.

01:25:39.560 I mean, an absolute field day.

01:25:40.900 And we are always taught like basic one of one.

01:25:43.940 Don't give up the scene until you absolutely need to.

01:25:47.120 And in this case, as you pointed out, you don't need to.

01:25:50.100 Right.

01:25:50.620 She's not going to be upset.

01:25:51.600 She's not there.

01:25:52.320 But to say that we don't clean up the blood, well, then what?

01:25:57.260 Her family has to do that.

01:25:58.740 Is that what we're hearing, Sheriff?

01:26:00.580 That's OK that her poor family is going to have to go and clean up the blood? 1.00

01:26:04.840 You know, certainly you have crime scene people who have vendors that do, you know, just disposal and cleaning of crime scenes and terrible like suicides and stuff.

01:26:14.380 That is a service that we are all familiar with through the coroner's office.

01:26:18.400 They could obviously do that.

01:26:19.920 And I think that's extremely callous.

01:26:22.280 That's just my opinion to say something like that, that we don't deal with that.

01:26:25.980 And you let the family deal with it.

01:26:27.640 I just I find that to be quite, quite callous.

01:26:30.680 It's just I also feel like isn't it a little odd?

01:26:33.140 I don't know, like to leave Nancy's blood sitting there like that's that's evidence.

01:26:37.220 Don't you try to preserve that and like bottle it or, you know, keep it someplace for trial as opposed to just leaving all those blood droplets on the porch?

01:26:48.860 I don't know.

01:26:49.920 Seems kind of sloppy.

01:26:51.300 Even forget, like, what's kind to the family or sanctity, as as Matt Finn put it at Fox News.

01:26:59.460 It's like that seems evidentiary to me.

01:27:02.380 It seems like something you'd want all of the evidence to be gathered, not not any of it to be left at the crime scene.

01:27:07.940 If you can.

01:27:08.300 Well, we keep seeing to Megan, we keep seeing that blue shirt that's been laying out there since day one.

01:27:13.120 It seems like every time they pan on that porch, we see that blue sweatshirt or or something that's been laid out that they've identified.

01:27:20.520 Why was that not even taken?

01:27:22.120 That's so confusing to me.

01:27:24.040 Any type of clothing needs to be taken.

01:27:27.120 Yeah.

01:27:27.400 I mean, look at this.

01:27:28.620 I mean, it's just like police.

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01:30:42.660 Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly.

01:30:44.740 I've got some exciting news.

01:30:46.960 I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM.

01:30:50.120 It's called the Megan Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth,

01:30:53.200 unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies.

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01:31:16.780 Okay, let me go back to the breaking news today that I didn't get your opinions on,

01:31:22.220 and that is there's another porch man.

01:31:24.060 The audience has heard this discussion from the facts of it,

01:31:27.860 but there's a man who was spotted on somebody's ring or nest cam in the area

01:31:33.660 not far from where Nancy lives, and he looks like he's stealing packages.

01:31:39.660 That's my guess.

01:31:40.700 We're thinking about stealing packages.

01:31:42.020 That's just me without – that's not confirmed, I should point out.

01:31:45.200 But this guy has the look of the abductor.

01:31:52.280 He's got the same facial hair.

01:31:55.280 He's got a similar build, but he's skinny.

01:31:58.620 He's a little too skinny in my view.

01:32:01.040 Nonetheless, this is awfully suspicious, guys.

01:32:03.460 It happened right before – I'm trying to look for the exact date – January.

01:32:07.660 I'll find it.

01:32:08.300 January 23rd, around 3.30 in the morning, and then he returned again at 5 a.m.

01:32:14.060 It was a woman who said, I didn't answer the door,

01:32:16.620 but my dog started barking and scared him away.

01:32:20.160 He, again, is trying to appear to block the camera,

01:32:22.760 but he wasn't very good at it because there he is.

01:32:25.080 It's about as good a mugshot as you could ask for.

01:32:27.340 And we had – we compared it now to the sketch that this famous sketch artist,

01:32:34.100 like the – she's in the Guinness Book of Records for her amazing sketch artists.

01:32:38.580 This is what she came up with based off the masked man features

01:32:42.340 that we could see on Nancy Guthrie's porch.

01:32:45.500 It's not a bad comparison.

01:32:48.380 Maybe I'm being swayed by the beard, which is identical.

01:32:52.220 But what do you make of this latest porch man?

01:32:55.560 A couple things.

01:32:58.180 I'll take it.

01:32:59.680 I was listening to your segment with Fitz and talking about Tucson

01:33:03.160 and this area, this Catalina Hills, and I looked up their crime rate.

01:33:08.460 It's a C plus, I believe I read on the internet.

01:33:11.760 And there are some missing persons in this area.

01:33:13.960 So now we've got three guys walking around porches at 2 a.m.

01:33:18.520 Like, what's going on?

01:33:19.780 And I think there – I read something that her impetus to get – I'm sorry,

01:33:25.440 Ms. Guthrie's impetus to get the ring camera to begin with 0.99

01:33:29.340 was because of some stuff that was going on in the neighborhood.

01:33:32.080 And even though she said something about wanting to watch animals,

01:33:34.900 but she was concerned about things going on in the neighborhood.

01:33:38.280 So what is going on in this area that there's all these people on these porches

01:33:42.880 at 3 a.m.?

01:33:43.780 That's a hell of a coincidence.

01:33:44.920 You know, and yeah, I think the sketch looks great.

01:33:48.640 Another lead.

01:33:49.720 These are real leads that the real cops, who use the sheriff's term,

01:33:53.420 need to start, you know, identifying these people ASAP.

01:33:56.780 Not like the TMZ.

01:33:58.680 Right.

01:33:59.420 Demand.

01:34:00.360 Smokescreen.

01:34:01.700 That's all that is.

01:34:02.900 You're not moved by the $100,000 demand, but I want to split 50 in Bitcoin

01:34:08.140 and then another 50, and then I'll –

01:34:10.700 All nonsense. 0.99

01:34:11.740 It's just – it's ridiculous. 0.97

01:34:13.260 I've dealt with the bizarrest of ransom demands,

01:34:16.180 and you can weed them out very quickly, Megan, you know,

01:34:19.140 between, obviously, those that are actually legitimate and genuine

01:34:22.380 and are professional, or even the amateurs who are doing it,

01:34:26.200 to the chances who are simply looking for opportunity.

01:34:29.580 But, you know, the one thing that we would know,

01:34:32.020 certainly pertaining to Nancy, is that, you know, abductions,

01:34:36.400 whether they be for whatever reason, whether it even be for kidnapping,

01:34:40.920 are rarely spontaneous.

01:34:42.340 There will always be some advanced reconnaissance.

01:34:45.080 There will be some scoping out of the environment, the location.

01:34:49.040 Okay.

01:34:49.660 And in this instance, obviously, with the porch guy trying to dismantle

01:34:52.900 and remove the ring doorbell, he obviously didn't have a great deal of success,

01:34:57.580 as he proved yesterday in terms of using the key.

01:35:00.120 But, certainly, I think this guy cannot be discounted as a viable prospect or suspect.

01:35:06.340 I mean, that would certainly be my feeling, as he is the closest that they've got yet.

01:35:10.040 Right.

01:35:10.700 And, like, I don't know.

01:35:12.760 I mean, that picture of him is so clear, Chad.

01:35:15.840 I mean, it is like he's looking right into the camera, almost posing for a headshot.

01:35:21.100 Somebody knows this guy.

01:35:23.260 There's got to be a call coming into the FBI on who this is.

01:35:26.480 Yeah, I'm sure that's already happening because that was something I wanted to bring up is

01:35:30.160 people around him, let's start surveillance on him.

01:35:33.000 Let's talk to people that are in his inner circle.

01:35:35.900 Has he started changing the way he's acting? 0.96

01:35:38.360 Can you imagine, unless you're an absolute sociopath, 0.97

01:35:41.540 which you have to be pretty crazy to do something like this, 0.97

01:35:45.380 it almost takes me back to that Todd Kohlhepp case here in the upstate of South Carolina

01:35:49.300 where he kept the girl in the Connex boxes and all those people he had murdered.

01:35:52.560 But let's find out, is this guy acting strange all of a sudden?

01:35:58.280 Has he disassociated himself from friends?

01:36:01.380 But I truly believe within the next – I honestly think by now if this picture's come out

01:36:05.800 that they already have an idea of who this guy is.

01:36:08.080 Yeah.

01:36:08.880 Notice, Megan, he had a pretty good neck tattoo on that.

01:36:12.620 He did.

01:36:13.680 They can zoom in on that.

01:36:14.920 It's pretty – those are really good because there's not so many of them.

01:36:18.760 And then, you know, you go to the artist, all that type of thing.

01:36:21.620 But I would – you know, I tell you, now we've got a third –

01:36:25.900 so yesterday we had this Pac-Man guy.

01:36:27.900 Now we've got this guy.

01:36:28.980 And we've got, you know, all around the same time.

01:36:32.540 For me, the more these things start popping up, the less and less I think this was a target

01:36:36.960 at Nancy Guthrie because of who Savannah is. 1.00

01:36:40.480 That's how – I mean, I just feel less and less inclined to believe that it was targeted

01:36:44.440 because of who she is and more that it's – there's something going on in this area

01:36:49.100 where there's somebody, you know, go up on porches and somebody – you said that a lady 0.99

01:36:54.480 said that, you know, he knocked on the door or something and didn't let him in.

01:36:57.760 No, he came on the porch at 3.30 and then her dogs went crazy and he left.

01:37:03.580 And he came back.

01:37:04.520 He came back at 5.

01:37:06.020 Yeah.

01:37:06.220 I think if I keep seeing these ring videos about the same time in the same area, I'm

01:37:11.320 less and less thinking this was, you know, targeted at her because of who Savannah is

01:37:15.400 and more and more like this is random.

01:37:16.880 Well, in the first hour, we also showed the video of the peeping Tom in late December

01:37:20.340 who boldly is standing there outside of a woman's bathroom just filming her, like holding

01:37:27.440 his cell phone up.

01:37:28.960 He's trying to get naked video of this woman or this couple inside this house.

01:37:32.700 They said it had happened repeatedly.

01:37:34.200 That's also happening in Tucson.

01:37:36.460 I mean, like, am I wrong that, like, this is a high percentage of, like, porch crime to

01:37:43.820 have on camera in a two-month period, less than two months, like six weeks?

01:37:49.100 I think you're more – personally, I think your M.O. on the peeping Tom, you're more

01:37:53.400 likely to have an M.O. to commit some type of sexual assault or kidnapping or violent crime

01:37:58.220 than you do a porch pirate.

01:37:59.640 I don't think that –

01:38:00.440 Well, he's 6'4", Chad, I should point out.

01:38:01.960 So it's not him because the FBI says that.

01:38:03.860 But Nancy's abductor is 5'9", or 5'10".

01:38:06.120 5'10".

01:38:07.160 I think, certainly to concur with what the guys were saying, I mean, what we're seeing

01:38:11.520 here is a very unusual patterns of behavior by these particular individuals.

01:38:15.280 I mean, the peeping Tom, yeah, they're usually pretty predictable.

01:38:18.460 But I think in terms of the other two, this is – you know, it's not the typical time of

01:38:23.160 day or night for a porch pirate to come and steal someone's packages which have been

01:38:27.460 left outside.

01:38:28.000 That's generally going to be around those predictable times where they will be delivered.

01:38:33.180 And therefore, this individual actually lurking around, and as you said, Megan, returning a

01:38:37.920 couple of hours later.

01:38:39.360 Something very unusual.

01:38:41.060 There's something very odd that's going on in this particular town.

01:38:43.700 Okay, but let me say something.

01:38:45.700 Let's say this latest porch guy is the guy.

01:38:48.560 I mean, it's interesting he didn't wear the face mask for that crime or possible crime.

01:38:54.820 We don't know if it was a crime on January 23rd.

01:38:57.080 But by January 31st, he was.

01:39:00.300 I don't know.

01:39:00.680 And he would have had to gain some weight too because he seemed skinnier, I think.

01:39:03.840 I'm not totally sure because you don't see his body as well as you saw Pac-Man's.

01:39:06.780 But let's say it's him.

01:39:10.120 Like, once again, this does not look like a sophisticated criminal at all.

01:39:14.080 He probably is a sophisticated consumer of the criminal justice system.

01:39:17.820 You know, I mean, didn't look too nervous to be on some lady's porch in the middle of 0.99

01:39:21.540 the night twice coming back even though there's dogs.

01:39:24.320 And he didn't live there because it's the woman whose home it is saying, who's this creepy

01:39:28.640 guy who came on my porch not once but twice?

01:39:30.500 So my point is simply, that guy, that guy is keeping 100 FBI agents and sheriff's deputies

01:39:41.320 befuddled for two weeks now.

01:39:44.120 Like, he covered his tracks so ably that they can't crack that guy.

01:39:48.480 I just, I have a hard time believing it.

01:39:50.760 He just, Mr. I look straight into the camera.

01:39:53.820 Like, no, I don't believe it.

01:39:56.320 And then the next time you bring a bouquet of flowers or weeds to try to cover up the

01:39:59.920 camera when you come in, come on.

01:40:01.700 And that guy didn't look that sophisticated to me either with the flowers, you know?

01:40:05.560 Like, Ashley's theory is that he was using the flowers to, like, divide the Nest camera

01:40:13.000 from its base, like, possibly get it off.

01:40:17.100 I don't know whether that's true.

01:40:19.460 It seemed to me to look more like a camouflage.

01:40:21.920 And as we demonstrated with our videotape demonstration by Jake Whitman, our producer, all you have to

01:40:27.460 do to get that Nest camera off its cradle is this.

01:40:30.420 It's like, you just a couple of times and it's off.

01:40:35.380 You definitely don't have to go through, like, the camera with the, I don't know, the vegetation.

01:40:40.900 I don't know.

01:40:41.320 But none of these guys seems all that sophisticated to me.

01:40:44.780 I mean, I will say this guy with the ski mask is definitely, he looks the scariest and he

01:40:49.660 means business with that mouth light and that backpack.

01:40:53.380 You know, these other guys, they don't look as businesslike as the real abductor.

01:40:59.500 And is it possible there's not a group?

01:41:02.460 Is it possible there's not a group of people hitting these houses at 2, 3 in the morning?

01:41:06.680 Yeah, we don't know.

01:41:08.240 But clearly there's something amiss in this town or this area of Tucson that we have this

01:41:15.340 much, you know, activity on porches with, you know, these men.

01:41:20.740 It's a fail by the sheriff.

01:41:22.420 I think that's fair to say.

01:41:23.940 He should spend less time at the basketball games.

01:41:26.120 And more time arresting people who are harassing law-abiding citizens in their homes.

01:41:32.440 I don't know.

01:41:33.160 We're now almost at the two-week mark.

01:41:35.620 Today's Friday.

01:41:36.660 A lot of people will listen to the show over the weekend.

01:41:38.360 It'll be Saturday and it will be two weeks.

01:41:40.060 It was, you know, in the wee hours of Sunday morning, overnight Saturday that she was taken

01:41:44.240 and possibly worse.

01:41:47.020 Where do you put the chances, like, scale of 1 to 20, that Nancy is still alive?

01:41:56.120 I personally, from my own experience, I will always keep the balance in there until such

01:42:03.680 time as you've got a body and you've got a confirmation or you've got her back alive.

01:42:08.460 I think it's just a very, very slow process.

01:42:12.280 I've had some negotiations in the past which have taken, if not weeks, certainly months to

01:42:18.280 try and identify what's going on.

01:42:20.260 But my biggest concern, Megan, is that there's been no credible proof of life.

01:42:24.740 So that's why the numbers will probably tilt more towards the pessimistic than the optimistic

01:42:29.640 as far as I'm concerned.

01:42:31.380 Go ahead, Jim.

01:42:32.600 Yeah, a million percent.

01:42:33.700 I'm with Will, you know, without any communication.

01:42:37.500 I mean, if this was, like we said before, if this was a kidnapping for ransom, we would have

01:42:43.420 had communication.

01:42:44.200 And that's the proper way to do it.

01:42:47.400 Nothing about this case has been proper.

01:42:49.800 If you got her, why aren't you telling somebody?

01:42:52.200 I think something bad wouldn't have.

01:42:53.660 I think something happened in that house.

01:42:55.740 He ended up hurting her more than he wanted to.

01:42:57.940 I think she died.

01:42:59.160 And that's where we are.

01:43:00.340 That's what it feels like to me without, you know, anything, any communication, nothing.

01:43:05.280 It's just bizarre.

01:43:07.040 Go ahead, Chad.

01:43:07.780 I'm on the same page.

01:43:09.820 And also, we're dealing with an 84-year-old woman that had serious health conditions,

01:43:14.700 health issues.

01:43:16.020 You know, she had a pacemaker. 1.00

01:43:17.100 She can't go without her medication.

01:43:19.960 Two weeks, the trauma and stress that's on her body, if she was taken alive and held

01:43:25.900 captive, I don't know if she had the wherewithal or the strength, if her heart was even strong

01:43:30.680 enough to maintain everything she went through.

01:43:33.060 I agree with both guys.

01:43:34.880 I don't think she made it out of the house alive that night.

01:43:37.780 Chad, I know you've got to run.

01:43:39.620 I'm just going to keep you other two guys for a couple of extra minutes.

01:43:42.300 I've got a couple of questions to ask you.

01:43:43.440 Good to see you, Chad.

01:43:44.080 And thanks for everything.

01:43:44.760 You too, man.

01:43:45.360 Thank you, Chad.

01:43:46.280 On the subject of the—you're both concerned because there hasn't been proof of life.

01:43:49.980 And we don't know whether there's been proof of abduction or legitimate ransom demands

01:43:57.980 either.

01:43:59.000 Put aside the nutcase who keeps coming back for a coin to tell us who it is.

01:44:03.400 Let's focus just for a second on the original alleged ransom note that TMZ and the two local

01:44:09.600 stations got, and then the follow-up note that only one of the local stations got, neither

01:44:14.500 of which had proof of life.

01:44:15.600 The first one said, we have her.

01:44:17.260 The second one, even though they had begged for proof of life, did not provide it.

01:44:21.080 Um, but Harvey Levin has said—has—is saying this, uh, today he said—he posted this

01:44:28.300 on an x.com video.

01:44:29.940 Okay, this is today.

01:44:30.900 He's saying this about that original, give us $4 million by Thursday, and if not by Thursday,

01:44:35.720 then by Monday, $6 million or else.

01:44:38.640 Ransom note.

01:44:39.380 Here's Sot 4.

01:44:40.380 I will tell you this, I know, and when I say I know, I am positive that authorities, including

01:44:51.320 the FBI, are vitally interested in that ransom note.

01:44:57.200 Uh, I know this to be true, um, and I can't say the specifics because I promised I wouldn't,

01:45:04.560 but I can tell you they are absolutely still vitally interested, uh, in this ransom note.

01:45:12.620 But I will tell you, they are still really interested, really interested in that ransom note.

01:45:22.680 Okay.

01:45:24.020 I mean, I, I think part of what Harvey's suffering from here is what his normal day job is, but

01:45:29.620 he's a very talented lawyer.

01:45:30.820 I mean, I disagree with him vehemently on his take on Don Lemon.

01:45:35.120 Um, but that aside, Harvey's been in the legal business for a long time.

01:45:38.980 He's no dope.

01:45:39.980 Uh, so I'm, I'm trying to like sort of check what people's biases may be because he, you

01:45:44.020 know, he did just celebrity tabloid news for a living, but he clearly has sources on this

01:45:48.700 case because he's 100% been dealing with the FBI on these alleged ransom notes.

01:45:52.540 Of course they've been dealing with him.

01:45:53.840 So for sure he's got sourcing and, you know, what do you guys make of that?

01:45:59.640 That they're saying they're still taking that note, those notes deadly seriously, um, vitally

01:46:05.940 interested in that note still.

01:46:08.460 And like, maybe that is still their best lead.

01:46:12.160 I mean, other than face mask man, which so far hasn't gone anywhere that is, is it possible

01:46:17.680 still that the actual kidnapper did communicate with them and that there's some way of tracking

01:46:24.900 him either through those anonymous forms or the Bitcoin account that the man who, or the

01:46:31.680 person posted?

01:46:33.780 Um, I, James, if I may jump in, if you don't mind, um, I would say, okay.

01:46:38.420 So firstly, in the background, what happens with these kinds of demands when they first

01:46:43.560 come in, Megan, is that the crisis management team will obviously assess it.

01:46:49.240 They'll evaluate it as clearly as they possibly can as to the credibility.

01:46:53.380 Then they will refer, they will treat it as a serious request and they will obviously revert

01:46:59.140 back giving the assurances to the individual who's, who's claiming this ransom of some sorts

01:47:04.720 or have claims to have this information.

01:47:07.140 And then what they'll do is they, they will make it very clear and they will put in the

01:47:11.360 rationale and the reasoning to say, look, you know, we would love to help you.

01:47:14.620 We'd love to give you that money, but there are certain processes we have to follow.

01:47:18.280 And there are certain processes we have to go through to verify that you are in fact telling

01:47:23.420 the truth, which we believe of course, but we need you to provide us with that sufficient

01:47:28.120 evidence and information to confirm that you do have this information and you can provide

01:47:33.080 it.

01:47:33.300 And obviously if you can, you'll be paid.

01:47:35.220 And as you said, Megan, earlier in the show, you said, you know, there's a hundred thousand

01:47:38.920 dollar award now.

01:47:40.040 So, you know, they don't have to go through the complicated process of one Bitcoin initially

01:47:44.560 and then a subsequent Bitcoin later down the line.

01:47:46.780 If he provides good information, he'll get paid.

01:47:49.400 It is as simple as that.

01:47:50.740 I think unfortunately TMZ are making massive theatrics about this.

01:47:54.780 And I would find this if I was within the FBI team, I'd be very irritated by this somewhat.

01:48:00.540 What do you think, Jim?

01:48:03.080 Yeah, I think he said vital and really interested.

01:48:06.640 I think he said it four times.

01:48:09.260 Who's negotiating?

01:48:10.900 So even if, and by the way, it's a big if, even if it was a kidnapping and they reached

01:48:17.340 out to TMZ and not the family or the police or the FBI to, you know, to begin the communication

01:48:23.440 to get their money, okay, well, at some point that communication with the news agency would

01:48:30.220 then be turned over, as Will's saying, to the crisis management team, to the family,

01:48:34.920 to the people who could actually get the cash.

01:48:36.640 Unless, you know, Mr. Levin's going to get the cash and he's negotiating the safe return

01:48:41.120 of Ms. Guthrie, then I don't understand why you would continue to go to TMZ.

01:48:45.820 Remember, we want them.

01:48:47.420 Right.

01:48:47.680 We want our money.

01:48:49.060 So if it's not the legitimate kidnapper who sent the first two, forget the weird charlatan

01:48:54.380 at the end, the guy who's continuing to text about his Bitcoin, now split into two.

01:48:59.680 If you're not the legitimate kidnapper on notes one and two, what are you doing? 0.98

01:49:04.340 You're just a fraudster. 0.99

01:49:05.680 You're an opportunist. 1.00

01:49:06.620 Sure.

01:49:06.960 Just wasting time.

01:49:08.040 I mean, quite often some of these guys can be complete fantasists at all their chances

01:49:12.300 and they just want to make some money out of it.

01:49:14.280 But there should be consequences, obviously, to that kind of behavior because it is absorbing

01:49:19.140 resource to even qualify the nonsense that they're presenting.

01:49:23.100 But I'm with James 100% on this.

01:49:26.460 Megan, I discount this particular demand to TMZ and certainly how they're framing it,

01:49:31.560 that they're managing it.

01:49:33.000 No, it doesn't wash with me.

01:49:35.280 I agree.

01:49:36.460 Here we are, stymied.

01:49:38.560 Some leads still out there, DNA being analyzed.

01:49:41.960 Maybe we'll get a hit from the Florida lab on somebody who's in the database, somebody 0.53

01:49:46.320 who was in that house who wasn't supposed to be, who possibly has a criminal record.

01:49:50.160 That would be huge.

01:49:51.760 It's taking kind of a while.

01:49:53.880 But, you know, I don't want to be the CSI misled reporter either.

01:49:58.020 These things can take a while.

01:49:59.540 They don't want to screw them up.

01:50:00.760 So fingers crossed we get a breakthrough on the DNA or possibly an identification of

01:50:06.600 masked man on the porch soon in this weekend.

01:50:11.340 Guys, thank you.

01:50:11.960 I'm sure we'll be talking soon.

01:50:12.960 Pleasure.

01:50:13.340 Good to see you.

01:50:14.060 Thanks so much.

01:50:14.880 You too.

01:50:15.200 Bye-bye.

01:50:15.440 The best.

01:50:16.700 There's one final point I wanted to make just without the guys.

01:50:20.800 Maureen, actually.

01:50:21.860 Maureen Callahan, part of the MK Media Network.

01:50:24.600 If you haven't tuned into her show, you should.

01:50:27.020 The Nerve.

01:50:27.440 She raised this point, and I have to say it resonated so strongly with me that I wanted

01:50:33.200 to get into it here myself, which is, you know, I've been telling you all this stuff

01:50:39.080 of like, we're a family at the Today Show.

01:50:40.700 It isn't true.

01:50:41.540 And there's no question that I have an ax to grind with these people.

01:50:44.100 As you know, I have a bias here.

01:50:45.360 So you can factor that into my analysis.

01:50:47.680 But it's not true.

01:50:49.180 It is a bunch of backstabbers over there.

01:50:51.140 Nobody likes anybody.

01:50:52.620 They may go out to lunch with you.

01:50:54.320 They may have dinner.

01:50:54.940 They could even vacation with you, but trust me when I tell you, they're all planting stories

01:50:59.100 about one another behind their backs.

01:51:01.420 And if their neck is on the chopping block, they make sure somebody else takes it.

01:51:05.100 I mean, network news is a vicious, vicious place, way more so than cable, way more so.

01:51:12.720 And so they put on an image.

01:51:15.380 I'm not saying everybody's bad.

01:51:16.460 I'm saying the relations between them are set up to be fraught and very nasty.

01:51:20.940 And everybody's on guard because they've all want their seat.

01:51:26.000 You know, they want their precious seat and they don't want anybody else to get it.

01:51:28.760 And, you know, the knives are always out for the people who have those seats.

01:51:32.360 So Maureen noted that on the Chanel and Jenna show, I guess that's a show now.

01:51:38.240 I don't, I think it's in my old time slot in the third hour of today.

01:51:42.560 Everything's wonderful.

01:51:43.480 We're all such happy friends and family.

01:51:47.660 They decided to do a segment yesterday, Thursday, involving an actress who Chanel knows from some past.

01:51:59.720 She's an actress who was there to promote something. 0.91

01:52:03.460 And they ran a clip of the two of them hugging.

01:52:07.800 Okay, Chanel and this actress.

01:52:10.220 I'm going to show it.

01:52:10.920 Here it is.

01:52:11.260 If you look for it, I've got a sneaky feeling you'll find that love actually is all around.

01:52:21.520 She's holding this older woman.

01:52:23.360 She's hugging her.

01:52:25.300 And that was the voice of Hugh Grant from the movie Love Actually.

01:52:29.340 If you look for it, I've got a sneaky feeling that love actually is around.

01:52:33.780 She's hugging Adrienne Balen Houghton's mom.

01:52:37.560 And someone at the Today Show posts this.

01:52:41.840 It's like the show Instagram.

01:52:46.020 And they post this with the caption, nothing beats a mom hug.

01:52:52.660 Chanel shares that Adrienne Balen Houghton's mom comforted her, Chanel, in the days after Chanel's husband's passing, which was a tragic event that happened, I think, earlier this year.

01:53:03.300 They reunited in Studio 1A today.

01:53:06.080 I'm sorry, but what news organization, what set of producers, what news anchor who is responsible for that account would allow nothing beats a mom hug to go out on the Today Show social media?

01:53:21.700 The same day, Savannah Guthrie posted this to her Instagram about her mom.

01:53:31.560 It's video of Nancy Guthrie, much younger.

01:53:36.280 She looks absolutely beautiful.

01:53:37.940 And her two daughters, Annie and Savannah, dressed alike.

01:53:41.640 And it ends on a still shot of the whole family.

01:53:43.940 Well, not the whole family.

01:53:45.120 Their dad wasn't it, but their mom and the three children in a black and white.

01:53:49.140 Okay, so Savannah posted that Thursday.

01:53:55.100 She posted that.

01:53:56.580 And this was the response from her coworkers.

01:54:00.580 Okay, so she posts this about her mom with a note.

01:54:03.760 Hold on, I'm trying to find it on my, I can't seem to find, oh, here it is, here it is.

01:54:09.580 Savannah's note was, our lovely mom, we will never give up on her.

01:54:13.980 She's suffering, quite clearly.

01:54:18.120 And this is what her colleagues do.

01:54:20.740 Nothing beats a mom hug.

01:54:23.940 I'm sorry, but network television is a vicious, thoughtless, heartless, nasty place.

01:54:30.920 And you should not be misled into thinking you are watching loving, wonderful people who are just, it is not what they would have you believe.

01:54:40.000 And I just think that it was a despicable oversight, intentional move.

01:54:46.060 I don't know.

01:54:46.840 At some point, someone's going to have to take responsibility for it and say, I did a thoughtless thing and I'm deeply sorry.

01:54:54.420 You know, they brought Hoda in, like Hoda's back to help.

01:54:56.900 I'm sure Hoda's back to help.

01:54:58.920 Hoda has been dying to get back on the set of the Today Show ever since she left it.

01:55:03.940 Morning television isn't making the money that it used to make.

01:55:06.760 It's not bringing in anywhere near the revenue.

01:55:09.380 Neither is cable for that matter.

01:55:11.000 I mean, the CNN ratings are in the shitter.

01:55:13.820 Literally, they've lost more than half their audience, almost two-thirds of their audience now.

01:55:18.700 They were getting, like, 1.3 million in, like, I think it was 2016, 17 when Trump took over in their prime time.

01:55:26.380 And, you know, they were fighting him every night with Jeff Zucker directing the coverage.

01:55:30.120 They went hard partisan.

01:55:31.440 And people did tune in for that because there was a lot of Trump hatred.

01:55:34.780 Now it's down to, on average, in the 400,000s per night.

01:55:39.540 400.

01:55:41.520 Fours.

01:55:42.000 The 400s.

01:55:43.520 500s at best.

01:55:44.480 In the prime time.

01:55:46.420 I can't tell you how dreadful this is.

01:55:48.840 I mean, we were averaging 3 million and change every night in the Kelly file.

01:55:53.620 In the demo, in the key advertising demo, we'd easily get a 400,000.

01:55:58.180 I mean, like, if you didn't get that in the demo, which is a much smaller group, 25 to 54-year-olds,

01:56:02.020 cable, as you know, as much older viewers, you'd be horrified if you didn't get that.

01:56:05.660 Like, now the overall number at CNN is down in the fours or fives.

01:56:09.940 I mean, that is just a five-alarm fire.

01:56:12.320 They are not going to survive.

01:56:14.200 This show's views on YouTube are surpassing their entire networks, or at least making it a battle every month.

01:56:25.040 The total views on all of their shows.

01:56:28.400 And even now in a battle for their website hits.

01:56:31.900 Like, that thing used to be a monster.

01:56:35.340 It's not going to survive.

01:56:36.980 That's the bottom line.

01:56:38.040 That's CNN.

01:56:38.520 But the Today Show is not far behind, people.

01:56:41.360 Compared to where they used to be, they are a shadow of their former selves.

01:56:45.520 The ratings are dwindling.

01:56:46.820 Their salaries are dwindling.

01:56:47.820 The report was that they asked Hoda to take a pay cut because they can't afford her huge salary anymore. 0.98

01:56:52.980 And she, like, with dignity, walked off the set rather than take the pay cut.

01:56:56.920 I don't know what actually happened there.

01:56:58.400 But she walked away, and she's been back about 4,000 times since she did.

01:57:01.460 Because it is a thing with TV people that they need to see their mugs on TV, or they don't feel like they matter.

01:57:09.280 That is true for many of them.

01:57:12.200 So I just, I'm sorry, I didn't buy that either.

01:57:13.660 I'm back to help.

01:57:14.520 Okay.

01:57:15.480 Sure.

01:57:16.140 Sure you are.

01:57:17.320 Why were you back all the other 10,000 times when nobody wanted you?

01:57:21.560 Everything is a manipulation.

01:57:22.900 Just keep that in mind.

01:57:23.760 Everything's a manipulation.

01:57:24.540 Don't let them manipulate you.

01:57:25.780 What Savannah's going through is genuinely awful, horrible tragedy.

01:57:30.420 Everything that's happening on the set of that show is theater.

01:57:36.160 I believe that Tom Winter, the reporter they're using for reporting on this issue, is an honest reporter who is doing his very best to stick to just the facts and to not get ahead of his skis on anything out of respect for the family.

01:57:48.860 And I trust his reporting.

01:57:50.420 He was, it's not, he hasn't been perfect, but he's been legit.

01:57:53.960 And I think he tries his best to stay factual. 0.55

01:57:57.160 But as for the propaganda that gets pushed out on their evening news or their morning news show, beware and don't buy it because that was pretty damn heartless.

01:58:08.960 Nothing beats a mom hug.

01:58:11.320 Having said all that, that is a true sentiment.

01:58:14.160 And for those of us who are lucky enough to have them here and well, live up to it.

01:58:19.500 Man, I'm sure Savannah would want that from all of us.

01:58:22.640 Thank you all for watching, for being with us this week.

01:58:26.680 And last, as this bizarre, gripping, troubling story has unfolded, I think it's about more than, it's certainly about more than celebrity.

01:58:36.140 It's interesting, of course, because we all know Savannah Guthrie.

01:58:38.540 But I think it's about the value that Americans place on a life.

01:58:43.460 They just do.

01:58:45.540 You know, don't get me started on the abortion issue.

01:58:47.700 Trust me, we've all had many debates about it.

01:58:50.860 But the way we all come together when someone's life is in jeopardy, whether it's minors in a cave or a little toddler who we can't find or the mystery around four Idaho college students who met a grisly end,

01:59:09.260 the nation wants answers and it wants accountability and it wants a rescue.

01:59:14.420 If there's any chance for a rescue and then and or justice, the nation wants it.

01:59:19.760 It wants it desperately.

01:59:20.700 And the more invested they get in a case, the more insistent they are on having it.

01:59:25.920 And I think that's to our credit.

01:59:27.720 I actually think that's something we should be proud of.

01:59:32.080 Having said that, we will be doing some other news next week as well.

01:59:34.520 We've got to get back.

01:59:34.960 There's a lot, a lot happening.

01:59:36.060 Epstein, my God.

01:59:36.900 And the hearing with Pam Bondi was crazy this week.

01:59:41.020 The whole Super Bowl fallout and all the craziness there.

01:59:43.360 The Olympic stuff.

01:59:44.660 Did that French judge steal our medal from our ice skaters, our ice dancers? 0.96

01:59:48.740 Certainly looks like people believe that.

01:59:51.240 I'd like to know what the truth is.

01:59:52.360 But a whole scandal is evolving now on whether the French did not deserve to win that gold into that.

01:59:57.980 And the Olympics in general are sort of a nice getaway from the darkness of this news story.

02:00:03.420 So take those in.

02:00:04.460 See, I'm not that biased against NBC.

02:00:06.260 I can't tell you to go watch the Olympics.

02:00:08.360 Some of it is still fun.

02:00:09.340 The ones who still love America, like the hockey team.

02:00:11.980 Yeah, we can root for them.

02:00:13.240 Not so much the men's freestyle skiers.

02:00:16.440 Oh, live and learn on the ones that we support, the ones that we tell.

02:00:19.260 I support all of you, and I appreciate your support of this program.

02:00:22.280 Lots of love to you all.

02:00:23.520 I'll see you soon.

02:00:24.980 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

02:00:27.220 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - February 14, 2026

Local Sheriff vs. FBI Friction Rumblings in Nancy Guthrie Case, and NEW Mystery Man Seen on Neighborhood Ring Camera ｜ Ep. 1252

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