The Megyn Kelly Show - Maddow's Softball Fani Willis Interview, and ＂Deadly Force＂ at Mar-a-Lago, with Rich Lowry and Charles C.W. Cooke ｜ Ep. 798

00:00:00.720 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.040 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Happy Wednesday, right? It's

00:00:17.320 Wednesday. Starting to lose track now as we're getting almost at the end of the school year,

00:00:22.100 right? Are you having that at all? It's like, what's happening? Who am I? Can't wait for school

00:00:26.260 to be out. I don't know about you, but like, doesn't your life get a little easier when school

00:00:29.380 is out because you don't have to like get up at the crack of dawn and get the kids all over hell

00:00:33.760 and gone. It's like, you can just kind of like work on your stuff as your kids are asleep in their

00:00:37.680 beds. It's so much easier. But then of course, that comes the day. Anyway, in real news, new court

00:00:44.280 documents revealing that FBI agents were authorized before they raided Trump's facility at Mar-a-Lago.

00:00:51.160 You remember a couple of August ago to use deadly force, to use deadly force if necessary. I'm the

00:00:57.960 former president of the United States and those around him. His family, are you going to shoot 0.99

00:01:04.280 Barron if he tries to stop you from getting a box? Was that the plan? The mainstream media just kind 0.97

00:01:10.220 of shrugging, saying it's standard operating procedure for the agency. Well, that's true,

00:01:14.940 but this was no standard operating raid. And they knew that. This is actually really outrageous

00:01:21.800 that special procedures wouldn't put in place. They understood they already had another part of the

00:01:26.960 government down there protecting the guy. Armed agents from the Secret Service. What did they

00:01:30.600 think they were going to do? They were like a shootout at the OK Corral to get Trump's thoughts

00:01:36.100 on Kim Jong-un? It's amazing. We're going to talk to our panel about it in a minute. Plus, Rachel Maddow

00:01:41.740 gets the first interview with the disgraced Fulton County DA Fannie Willis, and then she proceeded to 1.00

00:01:48.560 disgrace herself. What a joke. What a joke of an interview that was. Not one tough question. Not 0.84

00:01:58.220 one. Shame on you, Rachel Maddow. Shame on you. Fannie Willis did win her primary. I know you're 0.99

00:02:06.280 shocked. In Atlanta, Fulton County, last night, she's now going to go on to have a general election 1.00

00:02:10.980 contest against a Republican. And guess who showed up to celebrate her big win?

00:02:14.880 Hello, Nathan Wade. Ex-lover, they tell us. Do we believe it? We report, you decide.

00:02:23.240 Joining me now, two of our favorites for NR Day. That's National Review Day here at the

00:02:27.660 Megyn Kelly Show. Rich Lowry, who is editor-in-chief of National Review, and Charles C.W. Cook, who is

00:02:33.060 a senior writer for National Review and host of the Charles C.W. Cook podcast. You can find all of

00:02:38.900 their work by becoming an NR Plus subscriber. I am. I recommend it. You get rid of almost all of the

00:02:45.540 annoying ads. And also, I get the actual magazine delivered to my house, which I like to leave around

00:02:49.720 just so my kids could pick it up. Just start to thumb through it. That's how we sort of start to

00:02:54.640 counter-program in other ways against the left-wing indoctrination of their schools. And you should do

00:03:00.060 it as well. Rich, Charles, welcome back. Great to see you. Hey, thanks for having us.

00:03:05.620 Thanks for having me. I heard somebody on National Review, I must have been on the editors,

00:03:09.900 saying that they used to thumb through the magazine when they were young and start to take in the musings

00:03:15.840 of William F. Buckley. And I thought, oh, that's smart. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that

00:03:19.300 exact same thing. Mom's already read it all by the time it gets here, but the kids haven't. All right,

00:03:24.240 so let's kick it off with, maybe we'll have to shoot Trump when we go to execute this warrant 0.93

00:03:32.720 at Mar-a-Lago to get the documents that we believe he's withholding. And it turned out he was indeed 0.84

00:03:38.600 withholding, but his defense is, I was working with you. I was going to get it to you eventually.

00:03:42.360 Okay, that'll play out in court. And Rich, the thing is, it is standard operating procedure for

00:03:47.880 the cops to have that sort of shoot of necessary permission, just because they don't want the FBI

00:03:52.880 agents to get in trouble. But this was not a standard procedure. As I point out, it's a former

00:03:57.160 president with Secret Service Protection at a very busy location, and they had authorized them to go

00:04:03.180 door to door in Mar-a-Lago, banging on the doors to get documents. This seems really over the top.

00:04:08.780 What do you think? Well, I'm generally a critic of all aspects of the lawfare campaign against

00:04:14.800 Donald Trump, but I'd love to believe it'd be hilarious, among other things, that Joe Biden

00:04:19.240 opposed the lethal raid on Osama bin Laden, but supported the lethal raid on Donald Trump or

00:04:24.120 potential lethal raid. But this is standard operating procedure. The FBI was not going to

00:04:29.520 shoot down Donald Trump. But if something crazy happened, they need the authorization and they

00:04:35.200 have it in all searches because you are coming in. Maybe you're knocking down a door. They weren't

00:04:40.040 going to do that in this circumstance. Maybe someone freaks out and does something that represents a

00:04:44.760 threat and you need to be able to deal with it. But that clearly wasn't going to happen in this

00:04:49.500 case. So I think this is Trump whipping up people with an all-capped Truth Social post that was

00:04:56.420 not a faithful representation of the reality of the situation, in my view.

00:05:02.400 Well, they were permitted to do it. That piece is real. Law enforcement officers of the Department of

00:05:08.540 Justice may use deadly force when necessary. The FBI had a medic on the scene. They had identified a

00:05:14.980 local trauma center for anyone injured during the raid and did have a plan to go room by room,

00:05:21.000 including, you know, through the Mar-a-Lago residence and said that they will, the FBI,

00:05:27.560 engage with the U.S. Secret Service per existing relationships. I mean, that's what's so nuts about

00:05:33.320 this is this. I mean, what like what could have happened here? This could have gone south and

00:05:39.440 quickly. They knew they were going to a place with armed guards who also work for the same federal

00:05:44.040 government. And you really want to say it's just standard like, OK, it's fine. There were no increased

00:05:49.000 risks. Well, I imagine this was de-conflicted, right, with the Secret Service. And, you know,

00:05:56.560 what if Trump takes out a shotgun? I mean, we go down. I'm not sure. But you can come up with all

00:06:03.620 sorts of crazy possible scenarios that weren't going to happen and didn't happen. So someone

00:06:11.220 shoots the FBI. So are we supposed to say if someone shot at the FBI, we wouldn't want the FBI

00:06:16.900 to have the authority to shoot back? No, but when it comes to dealing with the former president of the

00:06:23.300 United States, there would have to be a carve out like that. What's that? There would have to be a

00:06:28.760 carve out in dealing with the actual former president. Can I mean, just imagine what? I don't

00:06:34.500 know. Here's the thing, Rich. But here's the thing. I don't know that the Secret Service was

00:06:37.800 consulted and given a heads up. In fact, my belief is that they probably weren't. No, my belief is they

00:06:44.240 probably weren't because what was happening, you can see in the motion practice leading up to this,

00:06:47.820 the judge was getting increasingly irritated with Donald Trump and mad that he wasn't turning

00:06:53.180 over the documents. That's how the prosecutor, the FBI was feeling, the prosecution. And so they

00:06:59.140 wouldn't have wanted to give anybody around him a heads up. And so there really could have been a

00:07:04.660 situation where the Secret Service was caught off guard on who was coming for the president. I mean,

00:07:08.900 I just think this is all at a very high level. And so are we supposed to believe, though, that

00:07:13.480 if someone, say an FBI agent is shot, they shouldn't be able to shoot back.

00:07:19.460 You don't need a pre-authorization for that, Rich. You or I wouldn't need a pre-authorization for

00:07:25.680 that. Neither does the FBI. What's the outrage? So what's the outrage then?

00:07:29.560 Why? I think if anything, there should have been a special procedure. Go ahead.

00:07:34.980 If they could have shot back anyway, why is it so terrible that they had no authorization to shoot

00:07:42.200 back necessarily? Because it's a pre-green light. I mean, it's a pre-green light to go onto the

00:07:48.520 property of the former president of the United States with armed weapons and the ability to go

00:07:53.360 into all the private spaces of Mar-a-Lago, the guests, the private residents, the children's

00:07:57.680 homes, where you know there are armed guards whose job it is to protect the former leader of the free

00:08:03.200 world. I mean, the stakes are already going to be high. The tensions are going to be higher than

00:08:06.920 your average raid. They knew all of this. And I think if they weren't coordinating with the Secret

00:08:13.360 Service, then this is absolutely egregious. They endangered everybody down there.

00:08:17.900 Well, that's the criticism of the raid itself, right?

00:08:23.340 Rather than the raid being carried out under standard procedure, you're saying the raid itself

00:08:29.080 was a danger.

00:08:30.000 Well, I've maintained that position.

00:08:31.940 I think you're both right. I think you're both right.

00:08:35.260 Go ahead, Charles.

00:08:36.880 Well, I think you're both right in that this is what government is.

00:08:41.060 If you're going to use government, you're ultimately going to use force.

00:08:44.660 Every government action is ultimately backed by force, which is why we should use it sparingly and why

00:08:51.460 we should want limited government and rules that define and determine what the government can do.

00:08:59.720 And I think ultimately the criticism here then has to be, why did they raid Mar-a-Lago?

00:09:08.100 And I've wondered that myself. I think this is the strongest case against Trump. I've never been

00:09:12.660 persuaded that this raid was necessary. I can't see it. And as you say, when you do this,

00:09:21.460 whether you have pre-authorization or not, and Rich is absolutely right, that if you're going to go in,

00:09:27.040 you're going to create that enormous risk. And even before this, there was a risk

00:09:37.260 to this raid that was not necessarily to life, but to our norms. This was a departure. And when those

00:09:49.040 departures are made, as sometimes they have to be, I want careful consideration in the buildup. And I've

00:09:55.580 just never been convinced that there was that consideration. And this is another knock-on effect

00:10:01.020 of that. So I think you're both right.

00:10:04.420 Yeah. Well, I do think it's a stretch to say, not a stretch, it's an outright lie to say, as Marjorie Taylor

00:10:10.320 Green did, that they went down there to assassinate President Trump. That's not, that is not true.

00:10:17.520 But there's no question that this decision endangered-

00:10:19.320 They failed agreed to free, if that was the mission.

00:10:21.840 Yeah, that's right. This endangered him, I think, unnecessarily, and those around him and those

00:10:25.900 at Mar-a-Lago. And the government's, of course, been criticized for doing something we've never seen

00:10:31.780 done before there, too. But the breaking of norms, hold on to that thought, which you just said,

00:10:35.960 because we're going to get back to something that happened last night on Rachel Maddow with Fannie

00:10:40.240 Willis, the breaking of norms. And who did it first, really, is kind of where we're going to go

00:10:45.520 with it. Before I get to Fannie Willis, though, and there's a lot to discuss there, let's talk about

00:10:49.840 the wrap-up of Trump's first trial. We haven't had closing arguments yet, but we're about to.

00:10:56.220 Court's off today, but we're going to have them. And then we think the jury will get the case

00:10:59.760 next week. So having watched everything, and I know you read everything, and I do, too,

00:11:04.980 that Andy writes at National Review, and I love your podcast with him, Rich. I listen to that

00:11:09.160 every week, as you know. How do you think the prosecution did, and how do you think it's going

00:11:15.500 to come out? Well, whatever it's worth, my odds of a hung jury are higher than they were going in.

00:11:23.840 I was maybe 20, 30 percent chance of a hung jury now. Maybe I think it's a 50-50 kind of a coin flip,

00:11:29.200 because this is such a stretch legally. And Michael Cohen is obviously a liar, and he stole 0.97

00:11:38.200 from the Trump organization. And yeah, he didn't lose his cool on the stand and freak out, but that 0.97

00:11:44.860 doesn't reduce the fact or get around the fact that he's not a credible person. And I don't need to

00:11:53.340 tell you just the legalities here. One, you need to say he falsified business records. Maybe he did,

00:11:58.660 right? But there's a credible case that this was a legal fee, right? Cohen was acting as a lawyer

00:12:04.340 when he forged this agreement with Stormy Daniels' representative. It's the kind of thing a lawyer

00:12:09.280 does. He was continuing to be a lawyer for Trump, and it was booked as a legal fee rather than

00:12:14.600 reimbursement. Obviously, he didn't harm anyone. He was plushed up so he could pay taxes on this

00:12:20.660 reimbursement. And then there needs to be an intent to defraud. But no one was defrauded,

00:12:25.180 right? The tax man wasn't defrauded. Nothing was stolen from anyone. So that underlying offense,

00:12:31.780 there's nothing there. And that would obviously just be a misdemeanor that the statute of limitations

00:12:36.480 had expired on, unless there's some other offense, which is supposedly stealing the election

00:12:40.600 and violating campaign finance laws. But there's no reason to think that this was a campaign expense.

00:12:46.540 If Trump sincerely thought it was a campaign expense, he would have paid

00:12:49.380 the expense from his campaign, right? He's a penny pincher. He wouldn't have

00:12:53.320 shelled out personally if he thought it was a campaign expense. Prior precedents suggest it's

00:12:58.300 not a campaign expense. The FEC didn't pursue this. And then the larger theory that he somehow stole

00:13:04.140 the election by booking this reimbursement falsely is obviously preposterous because that happened in

00:13:10.300 2017 after the 2016 election. So there's no way that the way you account for this after the fact

00:13:16.580 affects how people voted in 2016. And the hutch payment itself was not illegal. So this is

00:13:22.200 ridiculous. It's completely preposterous. And I have enough faith, maybe naively, and a Manhattan 0.99

00:13:28.860 jury to think that there's at least one or two people that are going to see through it. You know,

00:13:33.820 if they don't, it's a travesty. It'll eventually be overturned on appeal. But it doesn't help Trump to

00:13:39.360 win eventually in 2025 or 2026 when he's had to expend all the time and resources fighting this

00:13:45.780 now, when he's going to have potentially a convicted felon label around his neck. Maybe that doesn't

00:13:50.040 make a difference. I don't think it's going to make a big difference, but it could. You know,

00:13:53.660 that's the whole point of it. And it doesn't help if, you know, you reverse it a year or two after the

00:13:58.200 election. Charles, did we know that Rich was an optimist? Is this this is news? I mean, I know

00:14:04.940 we know MBD. No, not. But so sunny. So, so up on the prospect of a fair jurist on that 12 person

00:14:14.340 jury in Manhattan. What do you think? Well, I agree with everything Rich said about the trial. I just

00:14:19.900 am a little more pessimistic when it comes to the prospects for the jury. This topic, in a sense,

00:14:26.680 is related to our last one in that that raid and Mar-a-Lago was primarily contrived because

00:14:32.280 the president wanted the image of Mar-a-Lago being raided. And this trial in New York,

00:14:39.220 not federal, of course, now a state concern, was staged because its architects wanted the site of

00:14:48.920 Donald Trump in a courtroom. They wanted these facts to be known. And they bent the law every which

00:14:56.480 way to achieve it. If the jury agrees with the prosecution, that will be a bonus. But I think

00:15:05.160 the chance of that's relatively high because I just think there are an awful lot of people in Manhattan

00:15:09.880 who share the aim here, which is to put that big neon sign behind Donald Trump that says

00:15:18.400 convicted felon, whether or not there is much scaffolding underneath it.

00:15:22.400 Now, I will say, I do generally take an optimistic view. I wrote a piece recently,

00:15:28.240 actually, in which I pointed out that one of the things that is working in America at the moment,

00:15:31.620 despite all of the problems that we have, is the jury system. The vast majority of highly publicized

00:15:36.920 trials that we have seen over the last five years have come out well. And the best part of them has

00:15:43.180 been the conduct of the jury, which seems to have behaved really seriously. But last time I was on your

00:15:49.900 show, Megan, we were talking about this jury and the indications, at least of those who got kicked

00:15:56.660 off the jury or were not put on it, was that there are a sad number of people who do not take their role

00:16:03.900 seriously. And I'm a little more worried than Rich that that number will be 12.

00:16:08.800 And I also share Andy's concern that the judge is the father figure in the courthouse,

00:16:16.440 in the courtroom. And if the judge wants a conviction, it's pretty easy for him to steer

00:16:22.360 the jury toward a conviction, not necessarily just through his rulings on what's hearsay,

00:16:29.120 what's in, what's out during the course of the trial. As we saw when Stormy took the stand,

00:16:33.760 when Costello was on the stand, you know, he's very biased against the defense both times,

00:16:38.720 nevermind Cohen, but in the jury instructions, which are already going the prosecution's way.

00:16:45.240 They're not coming out. The final jury instructions, which will determine how this

00:16:48.740 case breaks. Absolutely. Um, are not yet done. He's going to approve them as of Wednesday,

00:16:56.140 but the rulings so far are not good. He, the judge right now, or the defense right now is trying to

00:17:02.700 get the word willfully added to two places in the instructions, which is a part of the legal

00:17:08.060 requirements. They have to show willfulness on the part of Donald Trump that he did these things

00:17:11.500 knowingly, willfully. That's an element of criminal law. Um, and it's not a gimme. The judge

00:17:17.800 has reserved judgment on whether he's going to put that in there. That's the central argument of the

00:17:23.240 case, uh, that, you know, was Trump willingly doing something unlawful? And now he's basically

00:17:29.280 siphoned it down to what the prosecution needs to prove is that Trump falsified business records

00:17:37.560 to hide an underlying crime, but crime may be too strong rich because the prosecution is now

00:17:47.960 arguing presumably in the wake of, you know, the weaknesses being exposed on this campaign finance

00:17:52.980 allegation that it doesn't really have to be a crime. When they say an unlawful act was trying

00:17:58.720 to be hidden. It could be a tortious act. It could be a breach of contract. It could be defamation.

00:18:05.180 They're arguing right now it's crime or just generic unlawful conduct that, you know, that I,

00:18:14.220 who knows, this is what Andy's been saying. Could be like a violation of what, like Russian law,

00:18:18.940 you know, Sharia law. What are they talking about? Yeah. I mean, our whole system is based right on, 0.76

00:18:25.500 you set out the crime really specifically, right? So everyone knows what it is and the defendant knows

00:18:30.180 what it is. And this was an outrage from the beginning. The indictment didn't tell us what

00:18:35.020 the supposed second offense was. And you kind of figured maybe, you know, by the time there was a

00:18:39.540 trial or during the course of the trial, we'd know what the second offense is or is alleged to be.

00:18:45.460 And we don't, they don't, you know, it's just, it's out in the ether there. It's something.

00:18:50.160 So this, you know, whatever happens in this case, I do think this is one of the things,

00:18:53.820 maybe again here, I'm being overly optimistic. Over time, everyone's going to realize this is

00:18:58.340 a travesty. And I'm not saying like tomorrow, but, you know, 10 years from now when the histories

00:19:02.660 are written. And just to be clear, I'm not, I'm not given, you know, for Rangers friends out there,

00:19:07.340 a Mark Messier type 1994 guarantee that Trump's going to get off. I just think that the chances of

00:19:13.440 him getting off, getting a hung jury are, are higher than I would have thought going in.

00:19:17.600 You know, Charles, you guys have been, uh, you, you ran a piece by Brad Smith not long ago,

00:19:25.120 this whole case, we've had him on the show, former FEC commissioner appointed by Bill Clinton,

00:19:29.900 and he's been jumping up and down on this case. And thus the Trump team tried to call him as an

00:19:35.240 expert witness and they were rejected twice. I mean, once at the beginning of the trial,

00:19:38.900 and then once at the end of the trial, they're going to call him as a witness. And the judge so

00:19:41.420 limited what he could say that it was pointless to do, but he had a great threat on X yesterday,

00:19:47.440 trying to point out what an absurd position this judge has left the defense in. I'm just going to

00:19:53.840 read you part of it. He writes, judge Marchand is so restricted my testimony that the defense decided

00:19:59.160 not to call me. Uh, it's of course elementary that the judge instructs the jury on the law,

00:20:03.860 but federal election campaign law is very complex to the point where even Antonin Scalia said,

00:20:11.020 it's so intricate. I can't figure it out. Keeping, uh, going here with what Brad posted,

00:20:16.500 he says, someone has to bring this specific knowledge of this act and what it requires and

00:20:22.480 what it doesn't to the jury. Part of the state's case is that they wrongly reported the Trump team

00:20:28.880 did what they knew to be a campaign expenditure in order to hide the payment until after the election.

00:20:34.880 Uh, and then he says, but an expenditure made on October 27th, when the money was sent to

00:20:40.380 Stormy Daniels lawyer would not under law be reported until December 8th, a full 30 days

00:20:46.340 after the election to riches point a moment ago, even the payment, nevermind the documentation of

00:20:50.900 it. None of it would have been happening, uh, until after the election. And he goes on to say,

00:20:55.920 uh, the judge allowed Michael Cohen to go on at length about whether and how his activity violated

00:21:04.040 the federal election campaign act. He let Michael Cohen essentially testify as a legal witness as

00:21:10.040 an, as an expert legal witness. So effectively the jury got its instructions on this law from Michael

00:21:16.540 Cohen with an exclamation point added by Brad Smith, concluding that this judge's bias is very

00:21:23.360 evident. And now this jury is going to be going in there with nothing better than Michael Cohen's

00:21:28.680 assertions when it comes to whether there was an underlying unlawful act in Trump somehow violating

00:21:36.880 campaign finance laws. Yeah. Well, this is an example of what David French used to call Trump law.

00:21:45.080 We're at no point in the process that someone stand up and say, you know, this isn't really how we do it.

00:21:51.040 And at all stages in these cases, this one being another good example, I keep waiting for someone

00:21:58.640 to intervene and say, no, but they don't. So you have this, this men's rare requirement,

00:22:07.380 which needs fleshing out and the details of what is a federal law, not a state law that needs fleshing

00:22:13.900 out. And you have a judge who is capable of insisting on a more classically liberal approach to the

00:22:27.020 defendant, but hasn't. And I just don't know how to square that with the way that those who have

00:22:35.660 brought this case and are cheerleading this case tend to see criminal justice matters. And if you were to

00:22:43.900 describe what you just described to your average left of center Trump critic, but not mention that

00:22:52.860 the case had to do with Donald Trump or anyone who'd been president for that matter, or anyone in public

00:22:59.000 life, they would be outraged by it. The expert witness would be deemed mandatory. They might even

00:23:07.700 argue that the constitution required the provision of expert witnesses. There'd be some penumbra in the

00:23:13.220 Fifth Amendment that required it. But because it's Trump, once again, we just gloss over it. I think

00:23:20.160 this is the big legal story of the last eight years, that so many people who call themselves liberals

00:23:27.120 have abandoned everything they ever believed about the presumption of innocence, about the degree to

00:23:36.380 which it's incumbent upon the prosecution to prove their case and provide juries with necessary

00:23:43.240 information, the value of the right to remain silent, and so on and so forth. All of these things have just

00:23:50.720 gone out of the window whenever it is Trump. And you read these sort of Archie Bunker-style screeds

00:23:55.780 in our elite opinion outlets from people who just would not adopt that worldview otherwise. And this is

00:24:04.800 another example of it. And you said the judge is biased, perhaps. Bias, certainly inconsistent. I mean,

00:24:10.880 it is an inconsistency that is glaring and that galls me as somebody who has a real pronounced

00:24:17.720 soft spot for the defense. That's what's so different about, I think, you guys and the left.

00:24:28.620 National Review are not big fans of Trump. You know, the editorials and the writers. And there's

00:24:34.720 some who I think probably most of you will vote for him, but definitely not your first choice and

00:24:39.320 been openly critical about him. But you're sane. And you can see objectively through your opinion

00:24:46.340 what's right and what's wrong when it comes to the treatment of Trump. I can't say the same

00:24:52.020 for the left that hates Trump. There really is something called Trump derangement syndrome. I mean,

00:24:59.840 you see it, Rich. Like, they do get deranged when it comes to him, where they don't care about the

00:25:07.280 things Charlie was just talking about. The ends justify the means. And the end of stopping Trump

00:25:14.180 is the ultimate end above all ends. Yeah. So this case is so bad, there have been some

00:25:22.160 folks left of center who have said, ah, this is not a good idea. This doesn't stand up. This isn't

00:25:27.740 the way to go. But it's not most, right? The majority are just willing to go along because

00:25:32.280 they assume it will hurt Trump. And as we've seen Trump sort of tiptoeing through the raindrops and

00:25:37.540 probably getting most of these cases delayed, except for this one, you've had people on the left

00:25:42.120 frankly writing, openly writing, well, it was a really bad idea to rely on the criminal justice

00:25:48.500 system to stop them, which just shows that they're using it for political means, right? That was the

00:25:53.080 whole purpose, the whole purpose of all this, the whole rush to do it before the election. And with

00:25:57.300 the Bragg case, it has to be a 2024 thing, right? If he did it in 2023, it'd be old news by now. If he

00:26:03.840 does it in 2025, he either can't do it because he's elected president, or it doesn't really matter much

00:26:08.840 because Trump will presumably, if he loses, be mostly politically defanged. Who knows? I've said

00:26:14.000 that before, and it hasn't been true, but probably it would be the case now. So he has to do it now.

00:26:18.420 It's an election event, right? It's not a trial. It's an election event. And if nothing else happens,

00:26:23.660 again, the time spent in a courtroom, four days a week, a presidential candidate during a presidential

00:26:30.260 campaign, the cliche is a campaign's most precious resource is the candidate's time. He's trying to make

00:26:36.100 the most of it being there, right? He has press availabilities before and afterwards. But often

00:26:40.180 they're about to trial themselves. It doesn't look great, you know, behind steel barriers. And he has

00:26:45.080 some Republicans sort of backing them up, but he must better out there doing rallies where he can take

00:26:49.820 down names and organize and energize people. So if nothing else, for a month or more, Bragg has kept

00:26:57.020 a presidential candidate from doing what a presidential candidate should be free to do in a free country.

00:27:02.780 That itself is an outrage. But again, you'll, you know, there's almost no one on the other side

00:27:07.960 who will say, I don't like Trump. I don't want him to win. I don't think he should have done this

00:27:11.840 hush money payment. I think he's dishonest, but don't do it this way. That's where they're never

00:27:16.360 willing to go. They're never willing to say, but the process is too important. The legalities are too

00:27:21.580 important. The technicalities matter. Never, because the overriding goal is all they care about,

00:27:26.440 which is stopping Trump, which they're failing at.

00:27:28.320 And when they do do it, most of the people you mentioned, Rich, are arguing on a utilitarian

00:27:34.480 basis that it's not working. Not that they're devastated by the sight of it in a country where

00:27:41.920 we're supposed to prosecute crimes, not people. It's not working. People feel sorry for him.

00:27:47.700 The polls aren't shifting. Oh, this case might not come to fruition. It's not from the gut.

00:27:53.940 That's what I find so difficult. That's what's driving me nuts because I understand

00:27:59.140 and share in people's repulsion to what happened on January 6th. I completely understand that. We

00:28:07.320 had Charlie on, I think the day after Biden won and Trump was not spared at all, or the day after

00:28:13.940 January 6th, was not spared at all for the behavior that he engaged in and that some of the worst people

00:28:19.300 on Capitol Hill that day engaged in. But I also see how horrific what they're doing with our courts

00:28:28.260 and our justice system is with respect to a presidential candidate. And they are, as you

00:28:33.060 point out, they're open about it. It's on the nose. And so where's, where is their horror in response to

00:28:39.220 that? And also where was their horror in response to Stacey Abrams and Hillary Clinton? And, you know,

00:28:45.740 I got into this yesterday when Bill Maher was on the program and I'll tell you, you know, he sat down,

00:28:52.320 I appreciated him coming on the show, but as soon as he asked, he asked me explicitly whether I was

00:28:57.980 going to vote for Trump. It's not normally something I announce who I'm voting for as a journalist, but

00:29:01.800 I did the day that Biden with his pen redid title nine, uh, which is going to affect my daughter and

00:29:08.800 yours, you know, all three of us, all of our kids, it's the boys are, they have, they lost their due

00:29:13.780 process on college campuses. The girls lost their rights in their private spaces and well beyond that. 1.00

00:29:17.980 I mean, there's so many problems with him, but I said, I'm going to vote. I'm going to vote for Donald

00:29:21.940 Trump. And it's not that I love Trump. I don't love Trump. He's fine. I'm not like a fan of Trump's,

00:29:28.440 but I can see that he does good things and he does some bad things, whatever.

00:29:32.280 But as soon as I said it, you could see the shift, right? He, he looked angry and he actually

00:29:39.760 stopped looking me in the eye. Watch Hillary Clinton, of course, is the original election 1.00

00:29:44.360 denier. I'm sure you voted for her in 16. Well, she's not an election denier. She absolutely was 0.97

00:29:49.300 the OG election denier. She, first of all, she came out before the sun had risen to conceive the

00:29:57.420 election to Trump. And then spent the next four years saying he was illegitimate. He was an

00:30:02.400 illegitimate president. She, okay. First of all, saying, she didn't say he was an illegitimate.

00:30:07.500 Yeah, she did. Tell me exactly what she said. She said those exact words repeatedly. 1.00

00:30:12.940 Okay. I mean, she conceded the election, whether, whether you're interpreting her disappointment at

00:30:20.260 losing it as the same thing as Trump not conceding it. I don't know that that's where you're getting it

00:30:26.820 from, but again, it's a tremendous false equivalency. You could ask Hillary Clinton right now, who won

00:30:32.500 that election? She will tell you. Donald Trump won the election. Now she knows she has to because

00:30:36.940 of what Trump has done. She came out that night in her dark purple suit and conceded the election.

00:30:43.400 Correct. And then spent the next four years trying to convince us it was not legitimate.

00:30:48.020 All right. So just for the record, and our audience knows this and you guys, but just

00:30:51.880 for the record, let's play Saten. I do think that he knows that he's an illegitimate president.

00:30:59.100 I believe he knows he's an illegitimate president. He knows. He knows that there were a bunch of

00:31:07.140 different reasons why the election turned out the way it did. And as I've been telling candidates

00:31:12.740 who have come to see me, you can run the best campaign. You can even become the nominee

00:31:18.700 and you can have the election stolen from you. Joe and Kamala can win by three million votes

00:31:26.060 and still lose. Take it from me. So we need numbers overwhelming. So Trump can't sneak or steal his

00:31:34.520 way to victory. Okay. So why? Why can't a smart guy like Mar know that? I mean, he genuinely seemed

00:31:45.400 surprised to hear this from me. He doesn't, it's, I think it's just his true hatred for Trump, Rich.

00:31:54.820 Now he is his better than most. And I think he's, he's actually been fascinating and inspiring at

00:32:01.960 times to watch like the Harrison Butker thing. He's more reasonable on that culture stuff.

00:32:06.800 He's great on culture. Yeah. But one, they don't, they might not know this, right? They haven't

00:32:14.480 focused on it the same way. I think the distinction between conceding and not conceding is meaningful,

00:32:20.460 but they did not accept the legitimacy of the 2016 election. Right. And this, this caused the whole

00:32:27.980 Russia collusion hoax and all the rest of it. And he's still saying things like that today. Right.

00:32:33.400 And, um, if it's bad for one side to do it, it's bad for the other side, uh, to do it. And it totally

00:32:39.120 deranged our politics for years that that investigation, again, the root of which we had

00:32:45.560 Russia gate. She's the reason she sabotaged his entire first term with these allegations that he 1.00

00:32:53.260 stole it with the help of the Russians. She hired fusion GPS. She had her lawyers down there 0.87

00:32:59.520 pretending that there were some magic computers at Trump tower that were communicating with the

00:33:03.980 Russians. That's all tied to Hillary, but yeah, she's it's fine because she said the words he won. 0.83

00:33:11.720 I it's no, she is the OG denier. Right. And this is going to be much worse if Trump wins in November,

00:33:19.100 which I think is more likely than not. The, the reaction will be much worse than it was. And in 2016,

00:33:26.000 wouldn't surprise me if you see a BLM style violence in the street that people make excuses 0.99

00:33:31.820 for or say is mostly peaceful, they are going to be out of their minds. They, they already were,

00:33:38.780 but it's going to be, um, uh, several magnitudes worse. And, uh, uh, the, the end of an end of this

00:33:44.780 year, beginning of 25, if he wins. What do you think, Charlie? I think I'm fairly well placed to say

00:33:51.560 this as someone who's not going to vote for Trump and who has said that he should have been impeached

00:33:56.400 and still believe that and is still appalled more by what he did than what the rioters did on January

00:34:03.400 6th, which was to try to use the constitution and federal law to stay in office. The left has a

00:34:10.620 massive liability and it's total incapacity to see itself as guilty of many of the same crimes.

00:34:20.540 The very fact that I've said this, by the way, will probably get picked up and someone will write

00:34:24.560 and say, ah, false equivalents. They just can't see it. There is a reason why when you poll people

00:34:32.800 on which party represents the greatest threat to democracy or which party is a better guarantor

00:34:37.800 of democracy, it's about even. 49, 48, every poll seems to show. And this absolutely infuriates

00:34:43.980 people on the left because they point to Trump and they say, look at all the things he did.

00:34:46.660 And he did. I agree. I have written it over and over again. I say it again right here. I started

00:34:51.740 this segment by saying it. All of that is true, but they just cannot grasp that just because they

00:34:58.460 won't acknowledge it, as you saw in the segment with Bill Maher, doesn't mean that the public hasn't

00:35:03.420 seen it happen. The public heard Hillary Clinton say that over and over again. Jimmy Carter said it.

00:35:09.480 The public heard the Russiagate allegations over and over again and knows that they came to

00:35:17.220 absolutely nothing. And although it is not identical, I accept it. It is not identical. The public knows

00:35:24.020 that Joe Biden tried to steal nearly a trillion dollars from the Treasury for his student loan

00:35:30.140 bailout, despite his own party having said he couldn't do it. The public knows that Joe Biden

00:35:35.880 refused to say prior to 2020 that he was against packing the Supreme Court. The public knows that

00:35:43.180 when his party, Joe Biden's party, gets upset at gridlock in Washington, it starts talking about

00:35:50.060 abolishing the Senate. These are not identical. I can reiterate, if you like, all of the things

00:35:56.080 Trump did wrong is why I'm not voting for him. But what has happened here is that the Democratic Party

00:36:01.840 has decided that because Trump is a threat to democracy, as it sees it, our democracy, as it

00:36:10.120 sees it, is always a telling phrase, that whatever it does to try to get rid of Trump is therefore

00:36:15.240 legitimate. It isn't the same thing in different clothing. It is a defense of democracy. So while

00:36:21.840 we sit and we talk about these absurd trials that I think are a stain on the country, they

00:36:26.340 see that too as being a legitimate exercise of power to defend America from Trump. But not

00:36:33.880 everyone in America does. And so they get confused because they think, well, hang on a minute, we're

00:36:38.440 doing the right thing. Whatever mechanism we need to use to get rid of him. Another one I didn't

00:36:43.140 mention was trying to kick him off the ballot on the most absurd reading of the 14th Amendment

00:36:47.920 that was shot down 9-0 in the Supreme Court. They think, well, that's not the same because

00:36:55.380 Trump is bad. Therefore, whatever it takes to get rid of him is legitimate. But you know

00:36:59.960 who doesn't think that? Americans. They don't believe that. They think what Trump did was

00:37:04.540 appalling, as I do. They also think that trying to bend the system to get rid of him is appalling.

00:37:09.740 And the Democrats can't internalize it. So I don't know what Bill Maher thinks. I last

00:37:14.360 went on his show eight years ago. But I think you see some of that in the astonished reaction

00:37:20.580 that you get because they've never got past the first position, which is, well, we're on

00:37:25.700 the side of the angels. And then when people don't agree with that proposition, they sort

00:37:30.660 of look quizzical at you.

00:37:31.660 Mm hmm. But by the way, I got to follow up. Like, what are you thinking? Because I know

00:37:36.440 how you feel about RFKJ. Like Jill Stein? Yeah. Cornel West? Who are you going to write

00:37:42.080 in Rich? Who are you going to? What are you going to do, Charlie?

00:37:44.160 Well, I'm going to go and I'm going to vote for every other elected office. I mean, every

00:37:48.780 state representative and senators up in Florida, we have a Senate election. Rick Scott will be running

00:37:53.620 again. And 24. I'm just going to not vote in the presidential election. Look, I totally accept

00:37:59.500 people have different views on this. I just can't vote for someone who tried to do what

00:38:03.940 Trump did in 2020. And I won't.

00:38:05.780 I get it. Honestly, I get it. I mean, I'm not going to pretend it. I didn't wrestle with

00:38:09.600 it. I mean, I voted for him last time, too. It wasn't easy. I know people people made

00:38:13.700 fun of me like, what do you mean it wasn't easy? Trump, Biden. But it's just I knew I

00:38:16.900 was going to vote for Biden. But there are just certain issues that are so important to

00:38:20.700 me. I want someone in there who's going to do the right thing on them. And, you know,

00:38:24.920 it does basically boil down to a binary choice. We, you know,

00:38:29.500 really are. My vote doesn't count in Connecticut. Neither does yours in Florida. You kind of

00:38:33.000 know how it's going to go at this point. Rich, you're in Virginia. Oh, no. Are you in Connecticut,

00:38:35.980 too? We're both out of luck. So, Rich, who are you voting for? Have you said?

00:38:40.820 I haven't said, you know, unless unless I have a change of heart, probably not for Trump.

00:38:46.360 My out is I don't live in a swing state, so I don't need to do it. There are many things I just

00:38:51.100 can't accept about about him and I find intolerable. But there are 100 things he's going to be

00:38:55.680 better on on policy. You know, Title IX is is among them. So I prefer him to Biden. It's just

00:39:04.380 I've never myself could be a Trump guy. Yeah. Yeah. And that's fine. Right. You. That's what

00:39:10.340 I say when people say, where should I go for real news? I've said I said like people like you have

00:39:14.900 gotten me through the past four to six years because I like to go to places who are not Trump

00:39:20.160 sycophants, but who can report the news fairly. Right. And that that's a very narrow window window

00:39:26.540 there, like where you don't love him and you can get past your hatred of him to actually report the

00:39:32.460 real news. I don't hate him. Yeah. I find him enjoyable in many ways. They're just aspects of

00:39:36.760 them that are deeply problematic. Yeah. No, I know. And January 6th is chief among them. I mean,

00:39:41.760 I realize it's not what the Democrats say. It wasn't an insurrection, but he behaved terribly and he did

00:39:47.040 his level best to corrupt the system such that he could remain in power and to not concede his loss.

00:39:52.900 But ultimately he did. He got out, which is something the left is missing. He did go.

00:39:58.520 They're predicting he never will this time around. All right. Okay. Stand by quick break back with more.

00:40:06.320 This just in this, this just in James Comey has a message for you guys and he wants you to hear it

00:40:12.340 loud and clear. Take a listen, Rich Lowry and Charles CW Cook. Watch this.

00:40:16.080 When you think about a second Trump administration, what do you think the implications would be for

00:40:20.540 the FBI? Oh, serious. For the Justice Department and the FBI, because Trump is coming for those

00:40:26.620 institutions. He knows their power. And I think he has regrets that he didn't work hard enough to

00:40:31.120 corrupt them last time. So he's coming for them. And that's a danger for all Americans. He's going to

00:40:36.620 put people in positions in those organizations. He didn't have all stars the last time. He'll have the

00:40:41.760 bottom of the barrel this time, but people who will want to do his will. And that should worry

00:40:46.000 every American. This election matters because of a reason like that. People have to participate.

00:40:52.800 You cannot sit on the sideline. I don't care how you feel about Joe Biden. You must vote for him.

00:40:58.140 You got it. He's talking to you, Rich and Charles and me too, I guess. But you guys are not even

00:41:02.400 filling in the bubble. So you're going to have some answering to do to James Comey, Rich.

00:41:06.800 Yeah. I mean, the law enforcement system might be distorted. If Joe Biden doesn't win a second

00:41:14.640 term, it would be shocking. Look, I don't like when Trump talks about retaliation and all that.

00:41:19.420 I don't like it. I don't think it's very likely to happen. But there could be a no kidding

00:41:23.880 investigation of Joe Biden. I mean, I think it's gonna be very tempting just to take the Robert

00:41:28.300 Hurd report and just scratch out the justifications for not charging him, you know, that he's a good

00:41:33.940 natured old man who can't remember things and just say, here's evidence of crimes. Let's look 0.94

00:41:38.800 into this. And as we've learned repeatedly in the Trump years, just being investigated itself is

00:41:44.280 a punishment, right? It causes you worry, sucks away resources. So I think there's gonna be a real

00:41:50.760 temptation to do that. But the fact is, when it comes down to like frank illegalities, people aren't

00:41:57.420 going to do it. You know, even if Trump orders it, they're not going to do it because they've seen

00:42:02.460 what can happen to you. So I think this it's unnecessarily a dire, unsurprisingly, take there

00:42:13.340 from James Comey.

00:42:14.560 Has there been a man I'm curious for both of you? Has there been a man who your opinion of has changed

00:42:19.720 more dramatically in the past, you know, six, seven years from the beginning of the Trump presidency to

00:42:25.360 now than James Comey? I mean, for me, I think he might be like the number one who, who I either

00:42:31.800 always had wrong, you know, or just changed dramatically. What do you think, Charles?

00:42:36.540 Yeah.

00:42:36.980 Um, I mean, it's partly him. And it's partly the FBI. Right? You know, I think we should

00:42:47.860 abolish the FBI. I'm just not convinced it can be fixed. It is so politicized. And you have James

00:42:56.580 Comey speaking as if it is this great paragon of virtue. And anyone who suggests otherwise is somehow

00:43:06.880 a, you know, crazy right wing Trump lover. Well, I don't, I don't think that's me. So I've sort of

00:43:16.940 seen the two of them decline in the same way. I assumed that Comey was on the level and his

00:43:23.520 descriptions of the institution that he used to be in charge of were correct. But over time,

00:43:29.760 I found his approach to be farcical. And with it, the FBI, I just, I, I think it's one of those

00:43:37.900 great examples of an institution that actually, and I mean, in that case, didn't have a particularly

00:43:42.220 great history. But perhaps had a period in which it was trustworthy, and traded on that for a long

00:43:50.460 time, long after its role had changed. So it's not just James Comey, although he's symptomatic.

00:43:56.960 I think the whole thing is a problem. And I think we've sort of forgot, it's one of the great

00:44:03.540 tragedies, one of the many great tragedies of January 6, was that in one instant,

00:44:11.980 the Republican Party took this dead weight, and hung it around its own neck. When prior to that,

00:44:22.540 you had three or four years of crazy subversion and election denialism from the left. And in fact,

00:44:30.800 prior to the 2020 election, it was the left that was shouting about the prospect of the election being

00:44:37.500 stolen. Remember that great conspiracy theory in the summer of 2020? The postmaster general was

00:44:42.380 going to steal the election? Oh, yeah. That's right. That was a great one.

00:44:46.860 Well, in one moment, and I don't pretend that this didn't happen. It did. It was a choice made by Trump

00:44:53.700 and his acolytes. But in one moment, the conservatives said, nope, that's our reputation.

00:44:58.260 Now we will take that on, which was immensely stupid. Hold my beer. 1.00

00:45:00.900 Yeah, he was immensely stupid. But we shouldn't forget, just because the Republicans did that, 1.00

00:45:08.660 and they did do that, that the FBI absolutely disgraced itself for two or three years. And

00:45:14.060 James Comey did as well. If I had been James Comey, and I'll say this, and then I'll shut up. 0.54

00:45:18.700 If I had been James Comey, after that press conference, where I had to come out,

00:45:24.300 announce that the allegations that I'd been investigated weren't true, try and create a

00:45:29.640 new standard in American law that was essentially guilty, but we can't prove it, I would have

00:45:35.380 slunk away somewhere warm and sunny for the rest of my life. I wouldn't dare to show my face in

00:45:43.000 public. But he is now sitting trying to bully people in to vote for Joe Biden on MSNBC. I assume

00:45:48.280 that was MSNBC. It's something else. It's Comey's vanity. He can't stop himself. Something,

00:45:54.420 again, I didn't know about him. But I will give you a little look at his favorite candidate. And you

00:45:58.380 tell me whether this is somebody we should keep in the office for the next, well, I guess, all told,

00:46:04.120 four plus years. Take a look at James, at Joe Biden, addressing, let's see, where was he when

00:46:11.340 he made all of these errors? My God, the NAACP. Yeah, yeah, here it is in New Hampshire. Watch.

00:46:16.840 Or the NAAC, as he says. Oh, hold on, you'll, you'll see it.

00:46:21.520 And when I was vice president, things were kind of bad during the pandemic.

00:46:28.840 And what happened was, Barack said to me, go to Detroit and help fix it.

00:46:34.800 Folks, it wasn't vice president in the pandemic.

00:46:37.200 I just came from Atlanta, where I delivered a commencement at Morehouse College.

00:46:46.460 We're truly inspiring.

00:46:48.960 Our protected and expanded the Affordable Care Act, saving millions of families $800,000 in

00:46:55.160 premium, $8,000 a year in premium.

00:46:57.540 He calls.

00:46:58.720 800.

00:46:58.940 And the erectionists have stormed Capitol Hill patriots.

00:47:02.760 The erectionists. 0.56

00:47:04.220 And we could have kept going.

00:47:05.840 He misquoted Trump.

00:47:06.860 There were at least nine corrections they had to make.

00:47:09.640 I got doubts about their chosen candidate, Rich, and I actually really have doubts that

00:47:13.360 he can even make it to November.

00:47:16.080 Yeah.

00:47:16.740 I mean, so do I.

00:47:17.720 I think there's some significant chance he doesn't.

00:47:21.340 And look, misspeaking is one thing.

00:47:23.940 We all do it.

00:47:25.480 Misspeaking at the level he does is another thing.

00:47:27.420 But the most disturbing of those gaffes that he just went through is not knowing when he

00:47:33.000 was vice president, right?

00:47:34.420 It's as disturbing as in her transcript.

00:47:37.800 Yeah.

00:47:37.960 Not knowing when Bo died.

00:47:42.000 Not knowing the date and not knowing what was going on in his own life.

00:47:46.780 So that's confusion.

00:47:49.420 And that's disturbing in someone his age.

00:47:52.900 And it's just absurd to think that he's going to be president in the United States until

00:47:57.460 January twenty twenty nine.

00:48:00.100 Right.

00:48:00.460 I mean, please.

00:48:02.480 Who are you trying to fool?

00:48:04.540 So if you I'll tell you, one person who's definitely not voting for Joe Biden is the

00:48:10.140 White House transcription guy.

00:48:11.860 He's he can't.

00:48:14.120 No, he's got a good job.

00:48:15.180 He's got a good job.

00:48:16.280 He's guaranteed.

00:48:17.260 That's true.

00:48:17.980 He's got forever employment or at least four year.

00:48:20.060 Standby.

00:48:20.620 We'll get to Fannie Willis and Rachel Maddow right after this.

00:48:23.960 Don't go away.

00:48:24.360 I'm Megan Kelly, host of the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM.

00:48:28.920 It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and

00:48:33.640 important political, legal and cultural figures today.

00:48:36.980 You can catch the Megan Kelly show on Triumph, a Sirius XM channel featuring lots of hosts

00:48:41.540 you may know and probably love.

00:48:44.320 Great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey and yours truly, Megan Kelly.

00:48:50.800 You can stream the Megan Kelly show on Sirius XM at home or anywhere you are.

00:48:55.760 No car required.

00:48:57.420 I do it all the time.

00:48:58.480 I love the Sirius XM app.

00:49:01.060 It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast and more.

00:49:06.760 Subscribe now.

00:49:07.480 Get your first three months for free.

00:49:09.740 Go to SiriusXM.com slash MK show to subscribe and get three months free.

00:49:15.700 That's SiriusXM.com slash MK show and get three months free.

00:49:21.560 Offer details apply.

00:49:28.980 All right, guys.

00:49:30.020 So Fannie Willis was running in a primary. 0.99

00:49:33.280 She won with 83% of the vote in.

00:49:36.740 She was considered the favorite in the race.

00:49:39.280 She crushed the person challenging her.

00:49:42.220 And now she's going to face Atlanta based lawyer Courtney Kramer in the general, who is 0.80

00:49:47.100 a Republican.

00:49:47.620 First Republican to seek the office in more than two decades, inspired, no doubt, by Fannie's

00:49:52.100 ethical lapses.

00:49:54.860 Then, by the way, Judge Scott McAfee won, too.

00:49:58.140 The judge who ruled on this case and who is trying the case ultimately against Trump down

00:50:03.560 in Fulton County.

00:50:04.220 He won with 83% of the votes in.

00:50:06.100 OK, so that's that.

00:50:07.020 So Fannie Willis, I guess, fresh off her big win, decides to give her first interview post

00:50:12.040 her ethics scandal to Rachel Maddow, Rachel Maddow of MSNBC, which night after night lectures

00:50:17.880 us on the importance of journalism.

00:50:20.740 Journalism. 0.69

00:50:21.120 That's why Trump is so bad.

00:50:22.740 Trump is so bad because he attacks the press and journalists matter.

00:50:26.980 What they do matters.

00:50:29.060 And asked zero, zero difficult questions of Fannie Willis.

00:50:34.560 Here's a montage of the questions she did ask.

00:50:36.720 You tell me whether we're going for Edward R.

00:50:39.080 Murrow awards here or not.

00:50:41.380 Let me start by asking you about what your life has been like and how things have changed

00:50:51.040 over the course of this past year.

00:50:53.940 I wondered what effect the sort of constant threat of violence that you've been living

00:50:59.780 with has had on on you and on your ability to do your work.

00:51:03.640 Do you feel like you've changed over the course of this term in office in terms of having to

00:51:10.020 develop new skills, new resources, develop a thicker skin than you might not have expected

00:51:15.240 when you took this?

00:51:17.920 Oh, my God.

00:51:19.340 No, nothing.

00:51:21.020 Nothing about the odor of mendacity that the judge found lingered in the courtroom after

00:51:27.720 her testimony and that of those supporting her.

00:51:30.820 Nothing.

00:51:31.660 Not a one.

00:51:32.760 Tough question.

00:51:33.620 I'll just give you one more, Rich, and I'll give it to you.

00:51:35.800 Here's a little bit about how Rachel Maddow got into it.

00:51:40.020 Setting Fannie Willis up as really the unheard victim here, because no one is defending this

00:51:48.380 poor, poor woman. 1.00

00:51:50.540 Watch.

00:51:51.980 They opened the floodgates on her. 0.87

00:51:56.800 In a way that is underappreciated in this country.

00:51:59.620 They have created a maelstrom of political harassment and pressure, bringing it down to bear on this

00:52:07.720 one prosecutor like a laser.

00:52:10.040 She is out there defending herself so ably.

00:52:13.220 This story for all of us, this is not a profile in courage.

00:52:17.920 This is a profile in cowardice.

00:52:20.800 She's standing alone against all of this.

00:52:24.560 These are human beings.

00:52:25.880 They are not magic.

00:52:27.220 They are not bulletproof.

00:52:28.400 They are not superhuman.

00:52:29.400 Alvin Braggs and Jack Smith.

00:52:30.540 And right now, they have no one defending them as they are being asked to bear superhuman

00:52:36.840 pressure and threat.

00:52:38.360 And it is working.

00:52:40.720 And there has been no significant countervailing pressure defending them.

00:52:45.240 And the history that we are making is that there's no one defending Fannie Willis but herself.

00:52:50.280 Who will defend them, the prosecutors, with all of the power?

00:52:58.420 Remind me again, Rich, why was it that Fannie Willis was so evilly targeted by so many?

00:53:04.860 Was that what happened there?

00:53:07.260 Yeah.

00:53:07.540 Where did that come from?

00:53:08.680 I don't know whether it was this interview or a press conference, but Fannie Willis was 0.78

00:53:12.700 saying, all of a sudden, there's this oversight committee that's looking into me and other

00:53:17.500 prosecutors, it must be because they're now black DAs in Georgia. 0.97

00:53:21.620 It's because she was, frankly, corrupt and unethical in hiring her boyfriend to be her 0.99

00:53:28.420 special prosecutor. 1.00

00:53:30.080 And this interview was ridiculous. 0.84

00:53:31.420 Oprah would have done a tougher interview with Fannie Willis. 0.68

00:53:35.020 And we were talking about Bill Maher earlier.

00:53:37.140 Bill Maher is interesting.

00:53:38.480 He's sort of changing as we go along.

00:53:42.120 He's a thinking person.

00:53:43.920 Rachel Maddow is the worst, right?

00:53:46.620 She's utterly predictable, total conspiracy theorist during the whole Russia hoax. 0.96

00:53:52.680 But the mainstream media treats her like she's the gold standard, right? 0.96

00:53:58.160 I think only Eric Wimple, the lonely media writer at The Washington Post, ever called

00:54:03.720 Rachel Maddow on any of her conspiracy theories during Russiagate.

00:54:08.120 So this is what you get.

00:54:10.100 This is what you expect.

00:54:11.740 In fact, MSNBC is a network entirely devoted to boosting these prosecutions.

00:54:16.620 I mean, Lawrence O'Donnell, the way he describes Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen as he's

00:54:21.920 like a non standing, inspiring people. 0.93

00:54:24.940 It's ridiculous. 0.91

00:54:26.380 I hate to see what his Saturday night looks like. 0.66

00:54:28.620 So, Charles, this brings me to the promised moment that we mentioned an hour ago, holding

00:54:33.940 on to the, you know, the left's obsession with the norms and just their complete blindness

00:54:39.580 to what they are doing, how we got to this place.

00:54:44.260 Like like here, you know, like what?

00:54:47.060 What?

00:54:47.380 What is Fannie Willis ever done to anyone? 0.97

00:54:49.420 Why would they investigate her?

00:54:51.000 This is so wrong.

00:54:51.940 By the way, we're told that that committee, which is at the state Senate in Georgia investigating

00:54:57.020 Fannie Willis's behavior here now, originally was the Democrats idea that they wanted to 0.99

00:55:01.480 push after Ahmaud Arbery was killed and they they weren't satisfied with the prosecutor's

00:55:06.140 response.

00:55:07.220 So this actually wasn't originally about black prosecutors.

00:55:10.100 It was about white prosecutors.

00:55:11.500 At that point, only now have they taken a look at her, who she happens to be black because 0.97

00:55:16.180 of her ethical lapses, which have the odor of mendacity, according to the judge trying

00:55:20.860 the case.

00:55:21.860 But here is just a little taste, Charles, of Maddow and her indignation from the same

00:55:27.060 monologue, different soundbites than you just heard, about about what these evil Republicans

00:55:33.080 are doing.

00:55:34.660 Watch this.

00:55:36.300 Republicans in the state legislature decided that for the first time in the history of

00:55:39.700 that state, they needed to give themselves a new power.

00:55:42.480 They needed to give themselves the power to remove prosecutors.

00:55:46.400 They have created a maelstrom of political harassment and pressure, bringing it down to bear on this

00:55:54.720 one prosecutor like a laser.

00:55:58.160 Because she brought this case against someone of their party, this is Republicans using their 0.50

00:56:04.680 political power to try to shut off the legal system, to try to shut off the rule of law here

00:56:10.520 so it cannot be used against their guy against Trump.

00:56:13.220 They are taking apart the judicial system.

00:56:15.480 They are fundamentally changing the judiciary in the state, in the entire state, all to protect

00:56:23.740 this one powerful defendant in their own party.

00:56:27.240 It sound familiar?

00:56:28.820 Does that sound like anybody you know over the past year and a half?

00:56:31.900 I mean, it's a great glimpse into the Maddow extended universe.

00:56:38.980 Chris Hayes is also a narrator of this great fiction.

00:56:42.360 I love her analogies, but I think you played it twice, or she said it twice, but she kept

00:56:47.120 using as her analogy of great heavy pressure, a laser, which is not heavy, it's light.

00:56:53.820 She also seems to think that the prosecutor is the judiciary.

00:57:01.640 This is why I don't watch MSNBC, Megan, because it is a parallel universe.

00:57:11.980 It is an amusement park of nonsense, and that segment was extremely heavy on dudgeon and indignation

00:57:27.060 and extremely light on anything that comports with reality.

00:57:31.740 And if she and Chris Hayes and others presented themselves as entertainment or as a partisan feel-good provider, that would be fine.

00:57:50.720 This country has a long history of partisan journalism, much of which, 100 years ago especially, was awful.

00:57:59.000 But when you combine that with, as you referred to at the beginning of the segment, this saccharine, self-indulgent, self-congratulatory pretense

00:58:14.460 that Rachel Maddow and her confres are speaking up for the sanctity of journalism and American law,

00:58:27.120 it becomes truly revolting.

00:58:30.920 And again, I don't know what Bill Maher thinks or doesn't think.

00:58:34.060 He is interesting and smart.

00:58:35.660 I've always got on well with him.

00:58:37.800 But you see in that segment why so many people on the left who consume MSNBC every day don't know anything about America.

00:58:50.380 I'm not blind to the fact that this exists on the right as well.

00:58:54.240 We can list the locations that provide the same service.

00:58:58.840 But I have been amazed in my work at the sheer number of otherwise intelligent people who just don't know what's happening in the United States,

00:59:09.640 who are shocked, as you showed in that Bill Maher clip, when you tell them that Hillary Clinton used the word illegitimate,

00:59:17.920 who are amazed when this case or that case doesn't go the way they want it.

00:59:22.420 It's not a political trial necessarily.

00:59:24.060 But the Rittenhouse trial was a good example of this.

00:59:27.280 The parallel set of facts that I kept reading in the New York Times that had nothing to do with what that case,

00:59:34.720 which was televised, by the way.

00:59:36.100 Anyone could watch it.

00:59:38.260 By the way, Charles, Bill also told me that cops died, that a number of cops died on January 6th.

00:59:43.740 Oh, yeah.

00:59:44.460 Cops died.

00:59:45.840 10,000 African-Americans are shot by cops every year is the media.

00:59:52.500 There was a poll that showed that the registered Democrats who watched MSNBC's conception of how deadly COVID was

01:00:02.860 was like off by a factor of 400.

01:00:06.100 And just quickly, Rich, he also told me, he also told me that Michael Cohen went to jail for three years

01:00:10.900 for campaign finance violations.

01:00:13.280 We know that's not true, which I corrected.

01:00:16.440 He also said that Trump's immigration numbers have been about the same as Joe Biden's.

01:00:21.900 I mean, truly, he said all those things.

01:00:25.200 Yeah, one of the most disturbing things to go back about to the Alvin Bragg case,

01:00:28.300 there's some significant chance that Judge Murchon is a Rachel Maddow viewer, right?

01:00:33.500 Oh, 100 percent.

01:00:35.240 Unlike Charlie, he is watching and he's watching religiously.

01:00:39.100 Can I just say so just to highlight what was in that clip?

01:00:42.400 I mean, it's amazing if you look at it.

01:00:44.360 This is the first time in history that the legal system has been used this way.

01:00:50.300 A maelstrom of political harassment.

01:00:53.500 Oh, the horror, Rachel.

01:00:56.180 Can one imagine that they're using political power to shut down the rule of law?

01:01:03.540 Yes, we've seen that, madam.

01:01:06.080 It's a it's it.

01:01:07.080 They're fundamentally taking apart the judiciary all because of one person and their hatred for them.

01:01:16.560 Yes, it is terrible.

01:01:18.820 And you are the one doing it.

01:01:21.240 It's your side.

01:01:23.360 Republicans are taking new acts in response to your breach into brand new uncharted territory

01:01:30.300 that in almost 250 years we've never entered before.

01:01:35.240 Charles, that's that's why we're here.

01:01:37.960 Yeah.

01:01:38.280 And I just want to flesh something else on this because it's irritated me over the last three or

01:01:43.120 four years in other contexts.

01:01:44.360 One of the reasons that I think progressivism is so damaging to America is that its core goal is to separate out a certain group of people and make them untouchable and untouched by the Democrat branches of government.

01:01:59.040 And so you see this and we saw it during the Russiagate hoax as well.

01:02:03.240 You see this in Washington where there is this conception that the Department of Justice and the FBI are somehow independent of the president, the one guy who is elected and in whom all of the powers of the executive are vested by Article two.

01:02:18.300 But what Rachel Maddow is saying there is another example of that.

01:02:23.500 It is true that the state is looking into Fannie Willis, but Fannie Willis is a prosecutor who works for the state and has power only at the pleasure of the state, who is able to execute laws only insofar as those laws are ratified by the state.

01:02:41.580 Here in Florida, DeSantis, a few years ago, removed a prosecutor who said he was not willing to enforce state law.

01:02:52.080 And there was this great outcry about this on the left.

01:02:55.340 Oh, my goodness.

01:02:55.980 But this guy was elected.

01:02:57.420 Yeah, he was elected.

01:02:58.560 But he also said out loud, I'm not going to enforce the law of the state from the power of which grants me my position.

01:03:08.080 And so DeSantis, who has the power under Florida law to remove prosecutors who don't do their jobs, did so.

01:03:14.860 If Fannie Willis gets kicked out from her role, despite being elected, it will be because she's corrupt. 1.00

01:03:21.500 It will be because she's violating the trust that the state has put in. 0.96

01:03:24.700 That's not a problem.

01:03:26.540 It's not intruding.

01:03:27.840 It's not the government intruding in an area.

01:03:30.460 It's not the government coming into someone's private house and telling them what to do.

01:03:34.140 It is the government upholding its own standards.

01:03:38.160 So what Rachel Maddow is essentially saying there is the opposite of what she's pretending she's saying.

01:03:43.020 She wants Fannie Willis to operate with impunity. 1.00

01:03:46.000 She wants Fannie Willis to operate independently of the government of the state she's representing. 1.00

01:03:51.500 That just cannot fly.

01:03:53.160 Yeah, and as you point out earlier, Rich, then Fannie Willis tried to blame it on her race. 1.00

01:03:59.160 Oh, it's just now that we have 14 minority prosecutors.

01:04:02.220 That's why the state's getting involved in overseeing.

01:04:04.640 No, it's because of your corruption.

01:04:06.380 It's because of what you did.

01:04:08.220 Take responsibility for your own actions.

01:04:10.680 Those other 13, I'm sure they didn't have affairs with their special prosecutor and pay them a higher rate than the other prosecutors were paid.

01:04:17.120 And then take the stand and, in my strong, well-informed opinion, lie about it.

01:04:22.280 We know he lied.

01:04:23.420 We know Nathan Wade lied under oath.

01:04:25.460 And the judge knows it, too.

01:04:26.900 That's why he said odor of mendacity.

01:04:28.900 And that's why his decision to allow her to stay on the case is being appealed.

01:04:33.180 I want to give you one other thing, Rich.

01:04:34.700 Here she is.

01:04:35.680 Of course, you saw those loving, you know, smoochy Rachel Maddow questions to Fannie.

01:04:41.140 And Fannie had the following reaction to one of them, asking how she is.

01:04:45.520 That reminded me of another person who loves to play the victim.

01:04:48.200 Watch these two soundbites.

01:04:50.080 Thank you for asking.

01:04:51.080 Not many people ask about what is the personal journey.

01:04:55.820 Yeah, well, I guess.

01:04:56.640 And also, thank you for asking, because not many people have asked if I'm OK.

01:05:01.160 It's so fun to be a victim.

01:05:02.980 It could be a queen, princess, queen of Fulton County.

01:05:07.100 Come on.

01:05:08.520 Who do you think you're kidding?

01:05:09.640 What do you make of it, Rich?

01:05:11.760 Yeah, look, I mean, this is the progressives always go to this.

01:05:15.720 They always go to race and victimhood. 0.96

01:05:19.060 And look, I mean, there must be some upstanding crusader against Donald Trump that they can

01:05:24.060 make a hero of, right?

01:05:25.620 None immediately comes to mind, but there must be one out there.

01:05:29.220 But here they're taking this woman who lied and was unethical and making her into a heroine

01:05:36.840 and a victim solely because, and this goes back to what we were talking about a while

01:05:41.460 ago because she has, she's pursuing the right target, right?

01:05:45.960 Donald Trump.

01:05:46.680 So that's the gateway.

01:05:49.120 Once you're through that and you're anti-Trump, it doesn't matter what your ethics are.

01:05:52.640 It doesn't matter what your motives are.

01:05:53.840 It doesn't matter what your procedures are.

01:05:55.780 It doesn't matter what the legalities are.

01:05:57.320 All of it has to be blessed and held up.

01:06:00.560 And it's because they consider Trump, you know, basically Hitler.

01:06:03.820 So most of us would have considered any means legitimate to stop Hitler anywhere along the 0.86

01:06:08.680 way.

01:06:09.260 And that's the way they think about Donald Trump.

01:06:11.700 And he's just not.

01:06:12.800 And it ends up distorting their worldview and how they operate and making them the baddies,

01:06:21.140 you know, the villains in a lot of these scenarios, but they can't, they can't see it.

01:06:25.160 So Charles, that's a perfect segue into Cori Bush, who is just a left-wing loon who is out 1.00

01:06:32.780 there now.

01:06:33.620 And she does this on the anniversary of Michael Brown's death in Ferguson.

01:06:38.300 And Michael Brown's would have been birthday in Ferguson over and over and over.

01:06:45.020 She keeps pushing this bill that she wants passed, which would, I'll give you a couple 0.99

01:06:54.060 highlights, recruit, hire, train, and dispatch mental health professionals and community health

01:06:58.100 workers to provide comprehensive mental health services to individuals who have suffered

01:07:01.500 traumatic experiences or are in grief, in bereavement, or at risk of suicide or violence as a result

01:07:07.060 of witnessing or experiencing law enforcement personnel violence, the death of a family member

01:07:12.220 due to law enforcement personnel violence, the death of a colleague or a neighbor due to

01:07:15.660 law enforcement personnel violence.

01:07:17.200 And this is how the bill defines law enforcement personnel violence.

01:07:20.280 Law enforcement personnel violence means a situation where a law enforcement agent uses force.

01:07:26.280 So now the taxpayers under this Cori Bush bill would have to pay for the mental health services

01:07:33.560 for anyone, anyone who is on the other side of a law enforcement agent using force, justified

01:07:42.540 or not.

01:07:44.080 And here she is announcing this bill once again, which has gotten no traction just the other day.

01:07:49.940 Watch that 23.

01:07:50.720 Michael Brown should have turned 28 years old, just 81 days after his 18th birthday, a Ferguson

01:07:58.340 police officer killed him.

01:08:01.100 In a just world, Mike Brown would be with his loved ones right now, dreaming of his future

01:08:07.820 as he blows out the candles on his birthday cake.

01:08:11.060 They were all left to live through the trauma police violence leaves in its wake to deal with

01:08:17.240 the mental health effects of it on their own.

01:08:21.080 Police killings of unarmed black people are responsible for more than 50 million additional

01:08:26.280 days of poor mental health days per year.

01:08:29.560 Almost a decade has passed since we lost Mike Brown, but we're still on the front lines of

01:08:35.380 the movement to save black lives.

01:08:37.500 Happy birthday, Mike Brown.

01:08:39.400 Oh, my Lord.

01:08:42.860 Michael Brown is dead because he attacked a police officer.

01:08:45.360 That's that's why he's dead.

01:08:46.960 Sad.

01:08:47.880 He has only himself to blame.

01:08:49.500 As Eric Holder's DOJ found Eric Holder's DOJ.

01:08:52.380 I'll just show you this one thing, Charles.

01:08:54.100 As you know, Shelby and Eli Steele made a documentary called What Killed Michael Brown.

01:08:58.140 You can still get it on Amazon, which tried to ban it for a time.

01:09:01.340 And they in the documentary take a deep dive on what killed Michael Brown.

01:09:06.140 And it was not cop racism.

01:09:08.060 And they had actors read actual testimonials that were given to the DOJ by the actual witnesses

01:09:16.560 to the moment that Officer Darren Wilson did shoot Michael Brown when he was charging the

01:09:22.060 officer.

01:09:22.940 Take a listen.

01:09:24.520 Immediately after he did his body gesture, he came for force, you know, full charge of

01:09:29.240 the officer.

01:09:29.920 His hands were balled up.

01:09:31.040 He had he has his arms bent towards his chest and he's running like, you know, almost like

01:09:37.180 a tackle running.

01:09:38.200 I heard him say, get down about two or three times. 0.67

01:09:40.620 I probably would have would have shot him instantly if you're charging me like that.

01:09:44.420 But when he was running back, he was screaming, stop, stop.

01:09:47.200 And the officer was backing up as he kept coming closer to him.

01:09:49.860 And he didn't stop.

01:09:52.980 But he's her poster boy.

01:09:54.700 What do you think?

01:09:55.180 Well, I actually think there's something profoundly wrong with her.

01:09:59.540 And I don't say that facetiously, but she is somebody who has spent a long time trying

01:10:04.980 to defund the police, abolish the police at one point.

01:10:08.960 Now she's trying to pass this law, which is not a federal concern.

01:10:12.700 Police are and ought to be local.

01:10:15.620 While spending quite a lot of money, up to $600,000 a year on private security.

01:10:21.600 And then when called on it saying, well, of course, I need private security, otherwise

01:10:25.200 I'd be in danger, which is fair.

01:10:27.860 I don't begrudge her private security, but it's incredible to argue indignantly that you

01:10:34.200 need private security because without them, you might be in danger while trying for a

01:10:39.000 period to defund and abolish the police.

01:10:41.620 And she doesn't seem to be able to see it.

01:10:43.220 So her logical reasoning skills are perhaps not what we would want in a federal representative. 1.00

01:10:52.440 I mean, this is really an offshoot of defund the police in the sense that it is a softer

01:10:59.960 attempt to imply that the entire, I won't say force, because there are hundreds of them

01:11:08.800 around the country, thousands of them, but the entire police apparatus of the United

01:11:12.820 States is irretrievably racist, which I don't think is true.

01:11:17.640 The presumption of the bill is every day police go out there and they harass and batter African 0.91

01:11:26.760 Americans.

01:11:27.740 And it's so bad and so frequent that we need a federal law that deals with the consequences

01:11:34.160 of it.

01:11:35.180 And the irony of that is that while, of course, there are some bad police officers in America,

01:11:39.660 and while there are presumably some racist police officers in America, and while we have

01:11:43.300 occasionally, as is inevitable in a country of 330 million people, seen some incidents that

01:11:50.300 were regrettable in America, if she, as she said, wants to save black lives, the way you 0.98

01:11:56.540 do that is to train the police properly and fund them.

01:12:00.020 This seems irrefutable.

01:12:01.080 I've never read a single statistical analysis here that shows otherwise.

01:12:05.940 The way that you improve the outcomes for disproportionately poor African Americans in America is to make 0.97

01:12:12.200 sure that they have good, well-trained, well-funded police.

01:12:15.540 If Iber Max Kendi had any integrity about him at all, he would define defund the police as

01:12:21.580 a racist policy.

01:12:23.060 His definition being that anything that disproportionately affects or hurts African Americans or minorities

01:12:29.240 is racism.

01:12:30.180 Well, Cori Bush's approach to policing is, by his definition, racist. 0.99

01:12:36.680 And yet, once again, we see her on the screen insisting otherwise. 0.84

01:12:41.680 She's a menace. 1.00

01:12:43.840 Rich, just some data. 0.96

01:12:45.100 You know, we always look at the Washington Post, which now tracks the number of black men who

01:12:51.020 are shot, unarmed black men who are shot by cops each year.

01:12:55.280 The cops, they pull over or have interactions with tens of millions of Americans every year.

01:13:01.900 They want to check your license.

01:13:03.140 They didn't signal when you were taking a ride, whatever it is, a turn.

01:13:06.560 On average, they make between 7 and 10 million arrests a year in this country, between 7 and

01:13:12.980 10 million.

01:13:14.060 And according to the Washington Post, the number of unarmed black men who, on average, get shot

01:13:20.020 by cops each year is between 12 and 19.

01:13:23.900 For the past 10 years, I just pulled up the past nine, past nine years.

01:13:27.600 It's 174 in the past nine years out of some 7 to 10 million each year who get pulled over

01:13:36.280 of Americans.

01:13:37.880 And by the way, just to give you a feel for what's in those 12 to 19 per year, who they

01:13:43.020 consider unarmed men, one of the cases we just pulled, two Louisiana state prisoners, two

01:13:51.580 Louisiana state prison transport officers shot and killed a prisoner trying to escape.

01:13:57.600 All right.

01:13:58.560 So it's a prisoner trying to get away from them.

01:14:01.400 The second one is a four-year-old boy was killed by cops.

01:14:05.840 Why did they do that?

01:14:06.840 Because the cops showed up at a home where a woman had been stabbed multiple times in

01:14:12.320 a domestic dispute.

01:14:13.780 And the suspect, who was the stabber, grabbed the little boy, pointed a knife to his throat.

01:14:20.920 And one officer, obviously fearing that the worst was about to happen, fired his weapon

01:14:24.760 to try to save the child, but struck them both and killed them.

01:14:28.920 That's counted in the 12 to 19. 0.99

01:14:31.280 And yet this moron is out there wasting my time and yours pretending that there's a massive 1.00

01:14:37.300 problem with racist cops traumatizing the black community. 1.00

01:14:40.680 And her exhibit A is Michael Brown, the poster child in the hands up, don't shoot lie. 0.96

01:14:48.420 Yeah, it was a total lie.

01:14:50.380 It's a lie that hasn't completely died yet.

01:14:53.360 There was never an epidemic of police shooting of unarmed black men.

01:14:57.600 That was a lie.

01:14:59.060 You know, those 12 to 19 a year, whatever they are, they run the gamut from some that are

01:15:03.180 true outrageous and cops should be punished for and do get punished for to ambiguous cases

01:15:09.560 to just totally justified uses of force, even though the person, the target was, was unarmed.

01:15:16.940 And Megan, a month or two ago, they tried to make a big deal of this.

01:15:21.100 I think it was in Chicago.

01:15:22.920 They tried to make an outrage of a case where a young man was pulled over, had a gun, defied

01:15:29.100 the orders of the police to keep his windows rolled down, yeah, and shot at the police first.

01:15:35.640 And they were trying to make him, you know, one of these victims whose names we supposedly

01:15:39.740 remember forever.

01:15:41.280 So look, Michael Brown's life was a tragedy, but the tragedy was everything that happened

01:15:45.780 before that interaction with the cop that led to him being so undisciplined, led him to

01:15:53.240 being such a bully, led him to having such pure, a poor impulse control and judgment such 0.97

01:15:59.960 that he tried to take that cop's gun and probably shoot him dead. 0.95

01:16:06.380 So it was a totally justified use of force.

01:16:08.840 Took a long time to back down, you know, the, the counter case, you know, people were respectable

01:16:13.200 people on TV were holding up their hands, right?

01:16:15.700 Because they thought that that's what happened.

01:16:17.580 It was a complete, a complete lie.

01:16:19.460 And of course she, she's going to do everything she can do to continue to perpetuate this lie

01:16:25.260 for all time.

01:16:26.280 You know, what's amazing is that piece by Shelby and Eli, you know, they call it not who killed

01:16:32.520 Michael Brown, what killed Michael Brown.

01:16:34.160 Because if you look at it and it's so worth your two hours, so worth it.

01:16:36.940 They, they go into the history behind that moment in Ferguson, Missouri and Democrat policies

01:16:44.060 that ruined the community.

01:16:46.520 The, they document the uprising in, you know, um, socioeconomic uprising of the black family

01:16:52.840 and how well black Americans were doing in this area before the great society, before

01:16:57.300 these ridiculous welfare policies that Lyndon Johnson put in place.

01:17:01.360 And before the state decided to start quote, helping the black community there and the housing

01:17:08.540 projects that replaced their single family homes that they'd been living in and working in.

01:17:12.800 And just the whole history behind this is told, and those policies happened because of people

01:17:17.160 like Cori Bush, because of people like her.

01:17:20.200 And as she still wants to get out of any responsibility for these left wing ruinous policies by pointing 1.00

01:17:27.480 the finger at innocent cops who in this case did not do anything wrong.

01:17:33.080 And in the vast majority of cases have done nothing but try to protect all communities, including

01:17:40.580 the black community.

01:17:41.340 It's just, it needs to be called out when it happens.

01:17:43.460 You guys are great.

01:17:44.720 Love you both.

01:17:45.320 Thanks so much for being here.

01:17:46.560 Thank you.

01:17:47.320 Okay.

01:17:47.700 Talk soon.

01:17:48.800 All right.

01:17:49.320 To be continued.

01:17:52.860 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

01:17:54.760 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 22, 2024

Maddow's Softball Fani Willis Interview, and ＂Deadly Force＂ at Mar-a-Lago, with Rich Lowry and Charles C.W. Cooke ｜ Ep. 798

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript