Major Revelations in Savannah Guthrie's First Interview, and Possible Gang Connection to Sheridan Gorman Murder, with Gov. Rod Blagojevich ｜ Ep. 1282
00:02:26.860And we thought that she must have had like some kind of medical episode in the night and that somehow, you know, the paramedics had come because the back doors were propped open, you know, and that didn't make any sense.
00:02:45.320We thought maybe they came and there's a stretcher and they took her out the back, but her phone was there and her purse was there and all her things.
00:02:54.220And it just didn't make any sense. So, you know, Annie and Tommy had already called all the hospitals.
00:03:01.980But then I'm like, I'm going to call the hospital. So then I started calling the hospitals and and the police were there and talking to her at the same time.
00:07:56.840But I, with respect, I have to say, I think Hoda Kotb fell down on the job and I don't
00:08:02.420think she was the woman for the interview.
00:08:04.200They put her out there because they use this as a promotional vehicle.
00:08:06.960The two are friends. Look, we're a big family. Look at them relating. They kept her mic up for her empathetic sounds and her active listening, which was actually a major distraction and very odd in the choice because normally the network would turn down Hoda's mic during Savannah's very compelling answers, especially in an interview this big.
00:08:29.380The reason they left Hoda's mic open is because, I'm telling you, NBC had an agenda here, which was to show you one big happy family, look how empathetic she is.
00:08:39.080It was an inappropriate choice, journalistically, because it served as only a distraction.
00:08:44.340This interview was not about Hoda, it was about Savannah.
00:08:47.560And I'm sorry, but Hoda kept wiping away tears that weren't there either.
00:08:51.340This was acting on Hoda Kotb's part, and it was a distraction and an unnecessary one.
00:08:56.460But my real complaint about the way that Hoda handled this was there were no follow ups, none, and therefore it was not journalistically sound. She did not ask very basic questions like, what do you mean propped open? That's it. Not I'm not talking about you go for the jugular. You treat her like she's a hostile witness. I mean, very basic reportorial ABCs.
00:09:21.540What does propped open mean? And the sins got worse as the interview went along. I objected to how it was handled. I'm just being honest. I'm not trying to be petty. I'm trying to be honest about what I saw there and what should have happened in an interview this big.
00:09:37.860But, okay, Eric, we didn't get a follow-up on what propped open means, nor on what the family believes happened there, because we now know that there's blood on the front steps, front stoop or porch.
00:09:56.260I'm going to play Ashley Banfield's reporting in a minute, but Ashley's now reporting that there were, that the blood we knew happened in the house was indeed on the inside part by the front door, which is what we'd speculated but didn't know.
00:10:09.860And yet the back door is the one being, quote, propped open.
00:10:30.320And obviously for the family, this is an immense tragedy.
00:10:32.960And of course, the fact that they just don't know what happened to their mother, this is Savannah and her siblings, is certainly coming through in the motion that Savannah was feeling there.
00:10:42.740As for the door, yeah, I thought it was also curious to say that it was propped open.
00:10:46.460That suggests, of course, what we thought all along, that they went in through the back and with the blood near the front door probably brought her out through the front.
00:10:55.620If you're going to move her out quickly and if this was actually an abduction, and Savannah certainly seems to say a number of times that she still believes it's a kidnapping, then you're going to move her out the front door, which is the fastest egress to get to a car and get out of there.
00:11:11.340Why would you prop open the back door, Randy, if you are this abductor?
00:12:05.020So the question that I have is, and of course, her statement that her mother doesn't go walking around and she didn't leave voluntarily, that indicates a crime.
00:12:17.820Why was this treated as a search and rescue effort, bringing in teams of search and rescue people to trample the scene and to screw the scene up, and then within days release that scene?
00:12:32.020These are the questions that I have that relate directly to the competency of the sheriff.
00:17:57.520There are a lot of different notes, I think, that came.
00:18:00.980And I think most of them, it's my understanding, are not real, and I didn't see them.
00:18:08.620But, you know, a person that would send a fake ransom note really has to look deeply at themselves to a family in pain.
00:18:24.660But I believe the two notes that we received, that we responded to, I tend to believe those are real.
00:18:38.620OK, that was huge. Keep going. Right. So here's where I'm going to agree with what your earlier statement, Megan.
00:18:45.280There's there's where you need to follow up. Which two notes. Right. So we know. And also, why?
00:18:52.700Why? That's it. It doesn't take any sort of experience in the journalism biz.
00:18:58.300Just why? What can you tell us? I know you're limited in what you're going to say, but what can you tell us to explain why you believed two were real?
00:19:07.800So I don't feel like we know. I don't feel like we know now what notes went where. We know that some went to media. We know that some went to TMZ. Are she talking about the same notes or were there independent ones that went to the family? Because it's never made sense to me that the kidnappers in potentially such a massively high profile case are going to send ransom notes to public media and not send it directly to the family.
00:19:32.320It's not going to be difficult to find a way to get it to Savannah Guthrie.
00:19:37.000So so I've never believed that those notes were true.
00:19:41.040So now I'm questioning, were there notes that we don't know about that did go directly to the family that that haven't been publicized?
00:19:49.020And that's what Savannah is talking about.
00:19:51.100And, you know, I wish you had done the interview because I'm sure you would have followed up.
00:19:55.440These are I mean, truly like who, what, when, where and why are very, very basic journalism steps like it's that is not rocket scientist.
00:20:02.320science stuff. Like, which notes? The two that went to TMZ and local media? Are those the ones
00:20:09.160you're talking about, just to be clear for the record? And it wasn't asked. Assuming it was
00:20:14.600those notes, here's the critical question that needed to have been asked. Then why didn't you
00:20:23.680pay the ransom? Right. And that's why I don't believe those were the notes. I don't think
00:20:28.940I believe those were. See, I disagree with you. I think Savannah, as a journalist, would have said
00:20:34.140there were other notes you don't know about that I'm, you know, whatever. I don't think Savannah
00:20:37.640would have thrown out there that the two, like so casually, the two, I believe the two were real.
00:20:41.680I think it was her short form reference to the two that we know about. The first one went to TMZ
00:20:45.620and two local news outlets. And then the next one only went to the local news outlets. And I think
00:20:51.380Savannah was short forming. Those are the ones because she said the two we responded to, and
00:20:56.200those are the ones that we were watching them respond to, at least we believe, on camera when
00:21:01.860the family did those like sort of hostage videos of their own, like, please, please, please, proof
00:21:05.860we need to know you have her. But the very obvious question is, then why didn't you pay the ransom?
00:21:13.820If you thought that this guy really had Nancy, you could have paid reportedly $4 million on the
00:21:20.860thursday of the demand or six million the monday after that thursday and you didn't as far as we
00:21:29.180know we certainly have been led to believe they didn't pay it right i mean and that calls into
00:21:33.580question one other thing uh okay so let's say she believes i you know we're we're debating but let's
00:21:39.340say she believes those are those notes are real and maybe there was no ability to provide a good
00:21:46.420sign of life because Nancy Guthrie had expired at that time. But let's say that they did decide
00:21:53.760to pay. You know, you can track that cryptocurrency as it moves through digital wallets. We talked
00:22:00.560about this on an earlier episode. You know, that would at least give the FBI an ability to try to
00:22:06.240find an eventual wallet that they could track and potentially find the kidnappers. So if they
00:22:13.020believed that those were legitimate kidnapping notes, then paying would have given another
00:22:19.740investigative tool to the FBI. Yes. Okay. So James, do you want to weigh in on this?
00:22:26.380Yeah, I really did. Thank you. Let's go back because I think your listeners are probably
00:22:31.200seeing the, seeing your clip and then they're saying, how does the brother go there that
00:22:35.600quickly? And it's very important later on, you know, Savannah will talk about her sister's
00:22:41.480intuitive ability. But this is what's happening here is not only Savannah's intuition, but her
00:22:49.200brother's intuition is pinging here. So what's happened is their intuition operates at the
00:22:54.540subconscious level faster than a computer. And they're putting it together very quickly. Why?
00:22:59.440Because Savannah is a high net worth individual. More than likely, she's had a risk assessment.
00:23:04.300I know the people over at NBC, I'm sure they've done it. Everyone I ever do with a high net worth
00:23:08.480person like that a highly popular person like her or you i have an anti-kidnapping thing right we go
00:23:14.920through kidnapping preparation mitigation and we make sure the family has a plan and we walk like
00:23:20.060i walk through with the family you know things to do to not be kidnapped because of this kind of
00:23:25.520overflow from being related to a famous person and they are we need to talk offline james they
00:23:30.920are pinging on it they're like this is what happened and then that's why she went do you
00:23:34.260think it's because of me well she knows she's like oh god because she's always lived with that
00:23:37.980thought that that could happen. I'm sure her kids go through this, her husband goes through it. I'm
00:23:42.140sure Megan, you go through it all the time, but certainly, you know, she's been prepped and she
00:23:46.540knows as being in the limelight, kidnapping is a possibility. James, does your prep kit involve
00:23:54.000a Louisville slugger and your makeup foundation? Because my mother tells me that's what she's got
00:23:59.740at her front door. She's ready to go. She's got her bat and she's going to look good.
00:24:04.460That's a start. That's good. That's called a plan, but certainly I'd like to help her with a little bit more, but that's definitely a good start.
00:24:11.620Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of us have shorn up the security around our loved ones in the wake of this. I mean, it's a tragedy no matter how you look. And it is a crime. It's obviously a crime. She obviously, I mean, I think anybody who is still wondering whether she wandered off can put that to bed. She did not wander off. She was incapable of the wander.
00:24:31.780I want to play one other soundbite for you guys to get your investigative input on it because there were more details about the crime scene included in, I think it's here, Sot 3, where she was describing the video, like how the family was able to make those videos and like what they were going through.
00:24:49.300She drops a couple of details in this soundbite, Sot 3.
00:24:53.100And somehow, together, we did our best to come up with the words to say.
00:25:04.760And I haven't posted one thing or said one thing that the three of us haven't decided together.
00:25:15.360It is surreal. How is it possible that we are having to make a video speaking to a kidnapper who took an 84-year-old woman in the dead of night, in her pajamas, with no shoes, without her medicine?
00:28:03.220But once again, we don't have we don't have the answers. We don't we weren't given the information. But this is critical information to the investigation.
00:28:13.800there's so much i want to go through on that on that answer and on savannah's answer of
00:28:19.940referencing the pajamas and no shoes and without the meds um let me just stay on that for one
00:28:25.260second because i do think that like there's a whole new reason to question whether this
00:28:31.080this could have been a breaker and enterer i feel like it it may be ruled out um but i'll get to
00:28:38.000that in one second can we just stick james with the now she's adding it was the dead of night
00:28:42.680Nancy was in her pajamas. She did not have her shoes when she was taken. She did not have her
00:28:47.700medication. And so that coupled with Savannah's belief that this was a kidnapping for ransom.
00:28:55.160Like, does that jive like those two data sets? Yeah, I think they do. The thing I was kind of
00:29:02.180wanting to hear was where did the blood begin? And I don't know if she's intentionally being cryptic
00:29:08.320and not saying that there was blood in that bedroom because, you know,
00:29:12.960all I've heard is that the blood is on the porch and in the driveway.
00:30:08.940and a senior law enforcement source she said she had,
00:30:11.440who's familiar with the details of the case,
00:30:13.580that's the one who said that they were,
00:30:16.000that the prime suspect may be Tomas or Tommy,
00:30:19.660Annie Guthrie's husband, early on the case.
00:30:22.760And that same week, we saw them tow away Annie
00:30:26.020in Tomas' car, and then later we saw them
00:30:29.240inside of their home at 10 o'clock at night
00:30:31.820When it was dark, they turned off all the lights inside the home and started taking pictures.
00:30:36.340In any event, since then, we've been told, at least, our own Chad Ayers reported, he cited a rock-solid source, he has boots on the ground there, that the family's all been given polygraphs and, quote, passed with flying colors.
00:37:52.340And it does suggest to me, Eric, that when she said taken from her bed a couple of weeks ago, it was not an accident.
00:38:00.260That is what they believe because here she doubles down saying standing over her in the bed, which may just be a figure of speech.
00:38:07.540You know, she's just sort of picturing how this went down.
00:38:10.100But either way, she's twice now said Nancy was taken from her bed. And therefore, I believe that's what she believes. And therefore, I believe that's what investigators believe. And therefore, the theory that Nancy may have been wandering around and bumped into a burglar is out.
00:38:25.700Right. You know, if we trust what the sheriff believes, yes, taken from her bed. So that does
00:38:32.940suggest that she's heard that from investigators that it began there in the room. It disabuses the
00:38:38.500notion. There were some theories early on that maybe he rang the doorbell and she came down to
00:38:43.760the door. Now with the door, the back door propped open and the whole taken from the bed. And, you
00:38:50.340You know, the other thing that, you know, I think that Savannah wants to do is impress upon anyone listening the horror of the situation, not just for the family, but but painting that picture that this person went into her mother's house, that her mother is a frail, small person, elderly, that he stood over her bed lurking there.
00:39:11.100I mean, that sinister image might stick in people's minds, and she may be hoping that someone feels that horror, feels that pain, and decides to do the right thing and give a really good tip or clue that leads the investigators to some fruitful point in the investigation.
00:39:32.360Randy, what do you make of it that the standing over her in her bed? I mean, we're getting an
00:39:39.360image now of how this thing went down. We have the pictures of the man on the porch. We know
00:39:44.060there was some sort of, if not a struggle, something led Nancy Guthrie to start bleeding
00:39:49.620at some point once he got her. And we know that the original contact between the two of them
00:39:57.060appears to have been with Nancy asleep in her bed and the perpetrator coming over her
00:40:01.220and getting her out of there, no shoes, no change of clothes, no meds, no purse, no phone,
00:40:06.740no anything. So as you listen to that sequence of events, what does it say to you?
00:40:13.960I think we can completely eliminate the random burglar type of scenario here that was thrown
00:40:22.440out by a number of people. Impossible. If you look at the statistical analysis of crimes in
00:40:29.420that area, you will find that there has not been a nighttime hot prowl burglary in that area in
00:40:36.640years. The burglaries that have taken place that have been reported have been mostly daytime
00:40:42.080burglaries. A burglar that- Now standing, all those tapes we saw, Randy, of random
00:40:48.500people looking in people's windows and so on? Yeah, the reality is that when you look at the
00:40:54.740statistics, the real crime statistics, there hasn't been a nighttime hot prowl burglary
00:41:00.580intrusion into a house in that area in recent memory. It just doesn't happen, especially in
00:41:08.720that area. Because remember, most of these homes are alarmed. They have surveillance equipment,
00:41:14.620and it's not something that is normally a burglar. Most burglars, if they want property,
00:41:22.340They don't want to have a confrontation.
00:41:24.920Are people going to be home during the day or are they going to be at night?
00:41:39.100I fully believe that there was definitely more than one person involved.
00:41:42.600I believe there was a driver involved as well.
00:41:44.920What we have not heard, and this is from a source that I have, is that that blood trail continued, continued from all the way into the driveway.
00:41:56.360That indicates to me that that individual who committed this took Mrs. Guthrie, probably by carrying her, through the home where the blood splatter was.
00:42:09.900There was a trail that went out into the driveway where they loaded her into a car and they took her.
00:42:19.140That's the that's the most I've ever heard anyone say on how far out the blood trail went.
00:42:24.320We heard from Brian Enten, who got that video.
00:42:26.760We keep showing that it was on the front stoop, the red brick area.
00:42:31.160Then Fox News showed us additional video of blood droplets on the gray, more gravelly looking path that we're showing here.
00:42:39.660You can see, thanks to Fox, video of that, but no one has ever said it did, in fact, continue from there over to the driveway, suggesting, I mean, I think we assumed that she didn't just vanish into thin air at that point, but, like, no one's ever actually said that.
00:42:55.780You're the first person to actually say that that I know of.
00:42:58.600Yeah, I developed that information not long ago from a source.
00:43:03.880So there's no doubt in your mind that she was put into a car?
00:43:06.900Absolutely no doubt in my mind she was put into a car.
00:43:09.140And of course, then that is a huge investigative lead that they have been clearly trying to follow up on in requesting doorbell video, surveillance video from convenience stores, from any entrances and egresses from that neighborhood.
00:43:28.380that's why it was so essential that they try and get as much footage as possible from any
00:43:34.580surveillance cameras in that entire area. Because this didn't happen in a vacuum, you know, the car
00:43:42.180didn't, you know, suddenly appear. It was there. It had to go through the neighborhood. It had to
00:43:48.860be there. It had to come in from one of the directions. So, you know, here's something
00:43:55.440that also has not been really spoken about, and that is the cell phone information from any of
00:44:06.700the cell phone towers. You haven't heard a drop about that. And that is very, very curious because
00:44:14.720that tells me that this was planned to the nth degree that they didn't have cell phones.
00:44:22.120and that right in and of itself the guy was clever this is eric's area of expertise but
00:44:30.060the guy was before i go to you eric i want to stay with you on this randy before we get to the
00:44:34.660cell phone thing the back door being propped open propped open that's different from open it's like
00:44:42.620open you just whatever you opened it you walked in you kind of forgot about it and then you brought
00:44:48.260are out the front door. I think that's what we've been thinking. But if you propped it open, like
00:44:52.240to leave it open, you know, the way you would, if you had someone coming in behind you in a few
00:44:58.280minutes, maybe, or you were carrying something heavy, you needed to get through the door. I don't
00:45:03.200like that to me, Randy does potentially support another person being there that you would prop it.
00:45:11.820I don't know. Some people, a lot of people have like an umbrella stand next to their door or,
00:45:15.160you know, a small little couch for people to sit down and put on their shoes, or some of those
00:45:20.020doors have one of those little sliders that you can put on that will keep the door open.
00:45:24.720But you tell me why a guy there to potentially kidnap Nancy would prop the back door open.
00:45:35.520Well, that's why I'm trying to think out loud, like an accomplice to bring something more into
00:45:41.320the home or potentially out of the home he thought he was going to maybe steal a lot and he wanted to
00:45:46.000like not have to deal with the door um or maybe he thought he was going to bring nancy out the back
00:45:52.860and the plan changed go ahead well this is why my question uh originally that we we we we talked
00:46:00.600about is does did mrs guthrie leave the prop the door open on a on a routine basis like i said for
00:46:08.580ventilation. The other possibility is we know that there was more than one individual involved.
00:46:13.900When you're talking about carrying a person out, it's not easy to do by yourself. It's going to be
00:46:21.600a whole lot more efficient if you have more than one person doing that. And that would indicate
00:46:29.960you know, uh, the, you know, keeping the door open for an accomplice.
00:46:36.640Eric, go ahead. Because the cell phone situation, and now we're talking like, if there's, if there's
00:46:42.000more than one person, and by the way, a retired Pima County homicide detective named Kurt Dabb
00:46:47.180gave an interview to Parade Magazine. And he said he believes there may be two to four
00:46:53.440accomplices on this crime, saying the logistics of something this, of this magnitude is much too
00:46:58.820much for one person to handle, in my professional opinion, based on the facts as I know them right
00:47:02.760now. So then that would mean no one brought their cell phone. Right. So I'm I'm agree with Randy
00:47:09.300there. There are certainly there. There have to be multiple people. You're not just going to have
00:47:13.540one person go in and then abduct her and then bring her out. You know, where is the car? You're
00:47:19.500not going to want to leave the car while you go into the house. There had to at least be someone
00:47:22.880in the car. And if you remember from some of our earlier interviews, you know, that blood pattern
00:47:27.480out along the walkway there was in sort of a straight line, which would suggest, I think I
00:47:31.920said earlier, that she might have been carried and it's dripping down behind. You know, one thing
00:47:37.900about the, before I get to the cell phone, before that back door being propped, you know, what's
00:47:42.660sort of stuck in my mind is you're going into a house and whether it's an abduction or what,
00:47:47.540but let's say it's a kidnapping, you know, maybe he propped the door because he didn't know what
00:47:52.200he was going to find. And he was thinking, I got to get out. If I have to get out quickly,
00:47:56.180I don't want to be fumbling with a door. As for the cell phones, yes, you can ping cell phones.
00:48:02.240What the FBI and law enforcement can do is go to the cell phone provider and get the data for any
00:48:08.280cell phones that ping those towers. You can get a approximate location. So what they could do is
00:48:14.480check all of the cell phones that were hitting the area around that time and then try to.
00:48:19.960Wait, but Eric, can't they do the geofencing where it's like they don't have to go through all that?
00:48:23.680They say they have technology to say, show us which phones were in Nancy Guthrie's area home and around her property, approximate area.
00:48:33.160So all they need to do is take the time and then they can have every every phone that pinged around those towers.
00:48:38.480It's not completely approximate, but it's close enough. Right.
00:48:41.880To say this person doesn't live here and was there at that time of night.
00:48:45.920And clearly they don't have that data, which would suggest that these the criminals didn't bring their phones, which is the smart thing to do.
00:48:53.020but what you know stands out for me is they would have had to be there at some point earlier to case
00:48:59.500the area that's a very complex uh warren of streets so if they're going to get to that
00:49:04.600property they would have had to be there earlier casing and i think that's one of the reasons they
00:49:08.740really wanted those uh doorbell cams and ring cams and any surveillance cams from property because
00:49:14.320if they came through during the day just to drive through to see okay here's how we get to the house
00:49:19.500here's how we get out. Maybe something got caught. And if you also remember, they were going back
00:49:24.820later and getting on ladders and actually pulling physical cards out of those cameras just to see
00:49:32.280if there was anything that the people didn't report. Yeah. And it does make you reminds me
00:49:39.320that now they're making clear they're interested also in January 11th on the request for people to
00:49:44.700pull tapes. Savannah mentioned that to a local news outlet in a statement recently, maybe because
00:49:49.300maybe the guy forgot to leave the phone at home every time. All right, Eric has to go,
00:49:53.580but James and Randy stay with me. There's much, much more to get to. Don't go away.
00:51:34.660Let me start by getting your perspective on the latest, these revelations that Savannah believes this was a kidnapping for ransom.
00:51:41.720She reveals, doubles down on an earlier statement that her mother was taken from her bed in the dark of night.
00:51:47.520Here she says that this man could have just been a turn of phrase, but says was over her mother in the bed, you know, snatching her in the middle of the night, that she was taken without her shoes, that she was taken while in her pajamas.
00:52:00.420And reiterating some details we did know, like didn't have her purse, didn't have her phone and didn't have her meds.
00:52:06.040All of those are interesting investigatively and also adding detail about how the back door of the house was, quote, propped open, we believe by the perpetrator, though don't know that for sure, coupled with Ashley Bamfield's reporting that there was a blood trail that continued into the front foyer area of the home, but not beyond, and that her reporting is there was no blood found in the bedroom.
00:52:30.120So your thoughts on where that leaves us in your theory?
00:52:31.900Well, first of all, I've been a detective for over 40 years, both in public service and private with the NYPD, and I was a robbery detective.
00:52:42.120And I will tell you, as I sit here today, 53 long days later, I still do not know exactly what crime occurred.
00:53:53.440Unless this is the rarest of all the rare violent abductions, and they thankfully are very rare, a not-for-profit transaction, a not-for-profit, I still don't know what it is because where's the request for the money?
00:59:52.960We have it seems to be a disparate investigation being done by two different agencies.
00:59:57.860But, you know, even if, you know, this interview, this clip you're showing of her and the family talking directly, if it's done correctly, you know, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it.
01:00:10.160But there's certainly going to be some coaching in the background by, you know, a negotiator from the Bureau who explains to them what to say and how to say it.
01:00:19.120It's extremely rare that they would let a family just, you know, independently, you know, negotiate or communicate with the person.
01:00:33.920You know, and I think she even alluded to that.
01:00:36.240There are a lot of people with bad souls that take advantage, and that's certainly what I still believe that theory is, is that the people doing that, they picked up some information they saw in a video I think you showed of Nancy's home from years ago.
01:00:53.100They would have had enough information to make it seem as though they had inside information and they wanted to make a quick buck.
01:01:24.940I mean, even what Savannah's saying in the videos,
01:01:27.080the hostage videos is like, we need to know you have her.
01:01:31.100They don't specifically say proof of life.
01:01:33.440And even the reward that she eventually posted for a million dollars is for information leading to either, you know, Nancy, like, alive or her remains, or leading to the arrest of this suspect.
01:04:21.120But there is a sad reality and it's a supreme irony, Megan. And I know Randy and James know this as well. You live in an affluent area like the Catalina Foothills. The officers who were sworn to protect and serve you in that area, by virtue of the fact that there are no real crimes, certainly no crimes of this level of violence, they have no historical perspective. They've never done it before.
01:04:48.160They've never done it before. I've spoken to. It's not like getting a Pat Brosnan assigned to
01:04:52.600your case or a James Hamilton or Randy Sutton or a John Doe who's been in the Bronx or in Harlem
01:04:58.340or in East Brooklyn and has done 100 of them or 500 of them. And that just comes down to legacy
01:05:04.620experience and expertise. And it is a supreme irony. It really is. The safest neighborhoods
01:05:09.660have the officers with the least experience and no one wants to articulate it. But I will
01:05:14.940articulate it because I still think they're amazing, amazing folks, but they just haven't
01:05:19.440done it because they're in an area that's affluent and relatively crime-free. Say it.
01:05:25.140I have some insight into this particular subject. So by perspective, Tucson lies within Pima County
01:05:37.180and Tucson is a is a very violent city they investigate about 55 murders per year so they
01:05:45.500have a very experienced homicide bureau um in contrast Pima County has about five homicides
01:05:52.000per year and the sheriff in his incident um fired or didn't fire but reassigned the most of the
01:06:01.940homicide unit who had investigative experience. He put them back in various assignments as a
01:06:08.160punishment to them. So in actuality, the homicide detectives are very, very inexperienced. One of
01:06:15.500them, from my understanding, has never investigated a homicide. And that's not saying anything
01:06:21.760detrimental about them. But it's as Pat said, especially homicide work, this is a learned
01:06:28.040skill this is something that takes years to get expertise in homicide work and and that's why
01:06:35.700homicide detectives when they when they're involved they stay for 20 years because that
01:06:41.780that experience is you cannot you you you can there's no other other um avenue or being no
01:06:50.520there's you can't short form it exactly i'm thinking when as you're speaking about brian
01:06:54.800Kohlberger, who was getting his PhD in criminology, who made so many stupid amateurish mistakes
01:07:04.060because you can't just study it. You actually have to be on the job learning how to, in his
01:07:11.260case, commit crime, but in your cases, solve crime. And the sheriff's taking, I have yet to
01:07:16.700find somebody, literally, I've been looking to say, this is not fair. The sheriff is a great
01:07:22.340investigator and a really good guy. Instead, no matter who you ask, they hate him. There was just
01:07:29.460a no confidence vote by the entire police union. Every single guy in it and gal voted. We do not
01:07:35.160have confidence in him. We don't want him. The county supervisor came out and gave an interview
01:07:40.700to Brian's and saying, no, can't stand him. In fact, I'll play some of that. He's like he's
01:07:45.760talking about his beginnings back in 1980 from El Paso, where it turns out he did some allegedly
01:07:52.160unethical things. And this is what Pima County Supervisor Dr. Matt Heintz said to Brian Enten
01:07:57.120in SOT-19. So it was eight suspensions in a little over five years. And it is kind of unusual
01:08:03.820to have any suspension for most of our officers. So to have eight in five years, this is a really
01:08:12.260troubling record. He was, frankly, a bad cop. Yeah, lots of dereliction of duty, tardiness,
01:08:17.320unnecessary force and discourtesy whatever that okay uh where is it excessive force that one
01:08:23.960wasn't sustained habitual attorneys excessive force again 15 days and then eventually the next
01:08:29.520page uh for july of 82 insubordination and consistent inefficiency which is like kind of
01:08:37.680one of my new favorite phrases uh he was forced to resign in lieu of termination
01:08:42.140The entire four decade history of his presence here in southern Arizona has been based on fraud.
01:08:49.580It is clear to me that he is not capable or competent to to lead in this office.
01:08:54.900He is more than tarnished. And I don't I that's not specific to any investigation.
01:09:01.100The most recent high profile one certainly has been shining light on on things.
01:09:07.800i mean that those are rough allegations uh the sheriff has previously sort of
01:09:13.360hoopooed what happened in el paso like oh my god you know yeah what do you want to get me i'm like
01:09:18.660my middle school grades next like this is not a big deal but the entire union being against him
01:09:24.540he's got some very senior ex-cops who've gone on the record in this case saying not a good guy and
01:09:30.000not a good investigator now you hear the county supervisors i mean like james the list is long
01:09:34.760Yeah, we talked about it, I think, three or four episodes ago where you played the tape of him talking bad about the Bureau for investigating him and how he's the real cop.
01:09:44.280And, you know, again, I think it's always a bad thing if we're the sheriff of a very large organization is somehow leading a major investigation.
01:09:54.320That is not their role. Their role is to get resources. Their role is to talk to the media.
01:09:59.080Their role is to do damage control. Their role is to support the officers who are actually doing the work. That's what you want from a sheriff or a chief. You do not want them working the case. That is usually, in my experience, not a good thing, and it certainly isn't helpful for the victims.
01:10:16.240savannah was asked about the investigation i mean which obviously isn't going so well
01:10:24.660and um she threaded that needle just just so take a listen here sought eight how did your
01:10:31.320family feel about the way the investigation was conducted well it's still going yeah
01:10:39.020Yeah. And people have worked tirelessly, tirelessly, and we see that. But we need answers.
01:10:54.340we cannot be at peace without knowing and someone can do the right thing
01:11:05.800and it is never too late to do the right thing
01:11:14.560she was too smart to you know rip on the sheriff who's currently got her mother's fate in his
01:11:23.720hands in some ways. So she said, well, it's still going. That's her telegraphing. Like, I don't,
01:11:28.660I can't say anything bad. And a shout out to the people who have worked, quote, tirelessly on the
01:11:34.040case. I'm sure there are a lot of investigators who are doing everything night and day to
01:11:37.540solve this crime. But then a demand for answers at the end, like, and then finally a reach out
01:11:45.060to the kidnapper or abductor, whoever it is, to say, please, it's never too late. It doesn't seem
01:11:50.440she has confidence in the sheriff. And I have to feel for her, Pat, because when she got the news
01:11:55.180from her family that the mom had been taken, they thought, right? And she was in New York,
01:12:01.540and she had to get on a plane and fly out to Arizona. The reports early on were that she
01:12:05.920called Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly. And she said to him, you know, like, this terrible
01:12:14.940thing has happened. And reportedly, he vouched for the sheriff, like, you're in good hands,
01:12:18.540you'll be fine. And that kind of thing, you know, I'm sure that a U.S. senator would do that because
01:12:24.520maybe he knows Nanos and he's, Nanos is also a Democrat. And it's kind of like, yeah, you're
01:12:28.460good. You're in good hands. Don't worry. He'll take care of you. I'll call him and I'll make
01:12:31.700sure he takes care of you. But it does make me think, you know, you're in that position that
01:12:36.840Mark Kelly's in. You get a call from somebody like Savannah Guthrie about something as serious,
01:12:40.140like you, you have to make damn sure you guys know this as actual cops. Like you don't recommend
01:12:47.500you're in good hands with this particular guy unless you know he can do this like if this is
01:12:55.360a friend of yours it's savannah guthrie i know i know if i called you pat and said god forbid
01:13:00.180something like this happened you would not say trust this sheriff or this fbi agent unless you
01:13:07.360knew i could take it to the bank and i think something my guess is that something went wrong
01:13:13.700here, that he recommended Nanos in a way Savannah came to trust Nanos. And this was placed in the
01:13:20.000hands of the wrong person. And I don't think the family leaned on him or the authorities strongly
01:13:24.320enough, not to blame them. I'm just saying I think they trusted him early on to get this out of his
01:13:29.340hands and into the hands of the FBI. Your thoughts? Well, I think so. First of all, her words were
01:13:33.720carefully chosen, carefully parsed. But I think this may be a case where the senator, almost
01:13:40.760perhaps a knee-jerk response relative to the competence of the sheriff. And then again,
01:13:48.280the sheriff who has, because I did some research on him, he has a very checkered past in many ways.
01:13:53.700You mentioned no confidence and so forth. But because he had no history, again, again, Megan,
01:13:59.280supreme irony, no history of ever conducting any serious investigations. And this is extremely
01:14:05.320serious. So there wouldn't be any context or nuance, legacy nuance or context for the senator
01:14:11.680to lean into relative to his capabilities. Right. So it's the perfect circle. It's a perfect circle.
01:14:17.980Yeah, I think my understanding is he's a good guy, whatever that means. Yeah, it seems like a good
01:14:23.720egg. And he's leading that force. And but again, no, no, no fact based context that. Yeah, I recall
01:14:32.340now, when they had that triple murder, you know, three years ago, he led it efficiently and
01:14:37.920effectively. And he was able to develop the relevant intel data reports and facts and lead
01:14:43.100to, you know, arrest, indictment, conviction. Nothing. The reason is nothing. It comes back
01:14:48.680to the circle of the affluence of the area and the virtual absence of serious and certainly
01:14:55.260super violent crimes. This one is suggested to be. You can't you can never give you a
01:15:01.240recommendation unless you actually know, especially on something as important as this, like
01:15:05.340we needed a real cop at the head of this investigation. And it just doesn't feel to
01:15:11.020me like we have it. We only have a short time left, but I have to get this in jumping back
01:15:15.160to Savannah soundbites that probe where the investigation is and how she's feeling about it.
01:15:20.740Now, very clearly, Savannah does not believe any member of her family had anything to do with this.
01:15:27.320And that we understand and it makes perfect sense. That doesn't mean the rest of us have to give them the same benefit of the doubt. I would expect her to defend her immediate family members. But this is the first time we hear her directly show her anger over the speculation, in particular about, I mean, it's been about Tomas. She calls him Tommy.
01:15:49.040But she seems to suggest maybe her brother Cameron also came under fire.
01:15:53.500Maybe that happened, you know, with some influencers that I don't know about.
01:15:56.580And obviously Annie is married to Tommy, so she's been somewhat under the microscope
01:16:01.500because her car got towed by the authorities and impounded and kept for six weeks for investigative purposes
01:16:09.460and because the cops kept going back to her house and taking pictures with all the lights out
01:16:13.560and taking items from her home, even though that wasn't the crime scene.
01:16:16.940And so, of course, people were like, what's going on with those two?
01:16:19.900And the husband was the last one to see Nancy alive, you know, prior to the abductor.
01:16:24.480So here's Savannah, though, lamenting the focus on the family in Sot 7.
01:17:16.940she's all we have. I'm just going to say here again would have been a great place for some
01:17:23.040follow-up journalism. Tell us why you don't believe they had anything to do with it.
01:17:28.620And she might've been willing to answer. They all took polygraphs and passed with flying colors
01:17:34.260as we had Chad, Chad Ayers report on our air a week ago, but we don't know what she's basing that
01:17:39.960on right now because the question wasn't asked. The information wasn't provided, but James,
01:17:44.520you tell me whether there's been something irresponsible. Forget what the influencers do.
01:17:50.620They're going to say Savannah did it. The influencers are going to go, you know,
01:17:54.140so-called influencers who are just going out there for clicks. I'm talking about actual
01:17:58.000journalists. And clearly she's mad at Ashley Banfield. And we've heard that. I heard that
01:18:02.300myself, that she's furious with Ashley and about the reports involving her brother-in-law.
01:18:07.300But you tell me whether it's irresponsible to take a look at Tommy and Annie.
01:18:11.540No, it's not. And, you know, we haven't. Again, we have a lady who has not been found. And so we it's a lead bucket. You know, where if we're working this case, we're going back to a number of leads and friends, family is a lead bucket. And we have to look there. Right. But unfortunately, what you have on the back end is, you know, the sheriff's already said I've cleared them.
01:18:34.140So how do you, you know, we talked about this a couple of episodes ago.
01:18:37.620How do you clear somebody if you haven't solved the crime?
01:18:40.780So, yeah, they might have an alibi for the actual night, but it doesn't mean there wasn't an involvement that, you know, you don't find about later.
01:18:47.780So it's very difficult to say I've cleared somebody without solving the actual crime.
01:18:52.900So that's, you know, I think she's hearing, you know, both sides getting frustrated because, wait, the sheriff said we're cleared and yet these people are still asking these questions.
01:23:04.560I have to know, and I heard a voice, and it said, you do know where she is, she's with me, she's with me, so whether she is on this earth still,
01:24:14.020But what I do believe, Megan, is that Savannah wasn't speaking to the offenders.
01:24:20.800She was speaking to the circle around him.
01:24:23.180And I've maintained this for a while, not just with the 41-second video, but everything else surrounding the fact that there are people who know that walk.
01:24:34.900There are people who know that movement.
01:27:52.740where you know it this happens the longer this goes and you have nothing and you have no leads
01:27:58.600and you have no person of interest and no interviews are being conducted the longer this
01:28:02.400goes on this could be a you know situation where you know we'll talk about this for 20 years
01:28:07.360whatever happened to her you know i've seen it i've seen it happen i can name the cases
01:28:12.880and it's tragic and it's terrible um but that's what i get the feeling you know we don't have
01:28:19.020We should have things. This is 2026. There are things we should have right now that we do not have in this case. And the longer this goes, the less and less optimistic I am.
01:28:30.920there's there's one other there's one other piece of information i forgot to give you megan
01:28:35.880and this is very recent this is very recent from my sources that that massive investigation where
01:28:43.020there were you know hundreds of investigators working on it has now dwindled to a task force
01:28:48.820of five people it was bound to happen there's no way they could keep that kind of manpower on it
01:28:55.580but it's very disturbing that while they had that manpower they got us to a place where there appear
01:29:00.500to be no suspects. That's another thing Chad Ayers was told by his rock solid source boots on the
01:29:05.280ground. No suspects, none. I mean, that's, that's not great. Seven weeks in, at least in Brian
01:29:11.080Kohlberger, when we were ripping on the Idaho police officers, we as like, what's going on?
01:29:16.320They haven't told us anything. They, they had Brian Kohlberger. We just didn't know it. They
01:29:20.360were surveilling him. They were following him back to his home in the Poconos. They were getting a
01:29:24.600warrant to go into his home right before christmas here the the reporting is they have no suspects
01:29:31.500it's not even like they're narrowing in on the guy none none of that is good and you can feel
01:29:37.020the family's you know what's amazing thanks so much thank you and james pointed out i'll leave
01:29:41.820on this final note i kind of promised uh we should have a lot more this is not 1996 i could not agree
01:29:49.360more i won't get into the litany of investigative tools and the litany of data and the tsunami
01:29:54.480of intel and information and there's nothing nothing it's beyond bizarre it's like a ghost
01:30:02.460came in and a ghost vanished and we know there's not ghosts but this is a this is a strangest case
01:30:09.380i've i've ever personally you know i want to say investigated from uh you know third party but it's
01:30:14.680unbelievable so i concur there's so much we should have and we have nothing zip zip zip zip zilch
01:30:19.560not a that that ghost comment gave me a chill i don't know that's like that was eerie right it is
01:30:25.660like that i mean we saw the ghost on the front steps of her porch but you're right somehow he
01:30:30.440did vanish and nancy along with him guys lots of love so much appreciate it thank you safe thank
01:30:35.940you all for thank you for being here yeah thank you yeah james i'm calling you calling you for
01:30:40.340your your kidnapping protocols as much as my mother's foundation may protect her from looking
01:30:44.760bad anytime you know it take care yeah there's more in place just just to any bad guys out there
01:30:52.020there is more in place but that was her original plan um so more of this savannah interview is
01:30:57.320going to air on the today show tomorrow it's amazing they they broke it up into two parts
01:31:00.700the first hour second hour today now there's another part part three that's going to air
01:31:06.260tomorrow plus they're turning it into a dateline i'm like like you can't they're going to milk it
01:34:21.380to be reduced to a talking point or a generalization.
01:34:24.160We expect leadership that is willing to confront hard truths
01:34:27.580and ensure that what happened to her does not happen again.
01:34:31.160In reaction to Governor J.B. Pritzker's ex-post calling the murder a tragedy without mentioning the suspect's immigration status, the Gorman family responded again, writing, quote, Sheridan's death cannot be reduced to a general tragedy, nor can it be explained away by broad references to failures somewhere else.
01:34:52.940Sheridan was a daughter, a sister and a young woman whose life was taken in a way that should never have been possible.
01:34:59.300We're not interested in political arguments or in watching responsibility shift from one place to another.
01:35:04.180If there were failures, as the governor himself has acknowledged, then every one of them must be identified, examined and addressed directly.
01:35:11.180The location of those failures matters less than the willingness to confront them honestly.
01:35:20.320She is a life that was taken and that demands accountability.
01:35:24.040And now a photo has emerged online, which some speculate shows Medina, it looks exactly like him
01:35:30.600to us, holding up a gang sign. For listening audience, it's like he's got the four fingers
01:35:37.060of his left hand showing and the ring finger is bent in half. So it's like the pinkies standing
01:35:44.320out, then the ring finger is bent in half, and then the middle finger and the index finger
01:35:48.260are showing. And that's apparently a gang sign, which has led to a lot of questions about
01:35:53.860who this guy is and what he was really doing on the pier that night.
01:35:58.280Now, he's due back in court tomorrow after missing his detention hearing Monday,
01:36:02.760reportedly because he's been hospitalized with tuberculosis.
01:36:07.740A former governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich, wrote the following on X.
01:36:13.080Sheridan Gorman's killer is being held in isolation.
01:36:16.800I suspect Pritzker and the Dems are hiding him
01:36:19.780to cover up the fact that this illegal immigrant killed an innocent young girl as part of a gang
01:36:25.700initiation. I know gangbangers and how they operate. I lived with them for eight years,
01:36:32.520and I know Pritzker and the Dems. Bet you I'm right. Blagojevich there referencing the time
01:36:37.980he spent in federal prison on corruption charges before being pardoned by President Trump. He came
01:36:42.380on this show after all that, and we had a fascinating discussion about it. The former
01:36:47.000governor joins me now his new book famed effed and freed a governor's odyssey is out in august
01:36:53.840and available for pre-order now uh great to see you rod thanks for coming back on please come on
01:36:59.560when your book hits too and we can talk all about it but um why do you think that this might have
01:37:04.360been a gang initiation well i'm almost completely convinced that it was i know this subject all too
01:37:11.220well because of my unhappy experience. 2,896 days in prison, sheltering in place with crips and
01:37:17.020bloods, gangster disciples, seeing a law of cartel drug dealers who look up to the gang
01:37:21.280Lord El Chapo like my daughters look up to Taylor Swift. I was in prison for the first three years
01:37:25.940with a man who committed murder. So I have an unhappy experience living with those guys and
01:37:31.860knowing how they operate. And gang initiations are very much a part of the gangs, not only in
01:37:37.580prison, but in real life. So I have, frankly, little or no doubt that what happened here was
01:37:43.360that. I mean, the facts suggest that the group of kids were running away from this guy who appeared,
01:37:49.940he was dressed all in black, and then he decided to shoot poor Sharon in the back. I think it hit
01:37:55.980her in the back of the neck. It had to be because he had to prove himself to the gang he was trying
01:38:00.800to join. And one of the most disgusting parts of the story is the fact that he should have never
01:38:05.060been here in the first place. He's among the hundreds of thousands of criminal illegal aliens
01:38:09.860who broke into our country illegally. He was also in custody a couple of years before for
01:38:14.840shoplifting, but the no bail laws that the Democrats love let him out. And there can be
01:38:21.300no other motive for doing something like that. So based on all of the facts and circumstances
01:38:27.940that we know, my own life experience, I'm perfectly convinced that this was a gang
01:38:34.500initiation. The only explanation for him shooting her and killing her and not shooting at anybody
01:38:39.880else. Right. Because it seemed like he targeted her, but there was no explanation for why,
01:38:48.320like there wasn't an altercation. There was, as far as we know, not an attempted like sexual
01:38:53.960assault or anything like that. He just got his eyes on her. She sensed danger. He had a gun.
01:39:00.380He had a black mask on. She ran and her friends ran, too. And he shot her in the back.
01:39:05.640I mean, so you're you're you're citing the determination to take a life on his part as evidence that that that that in and of itself had purchased for him.
01:39:14.980That's exactly right. He was instructed by the gang he wanted to join to do that and kill somebody.
01:39:19.340I saw it in prison. These guys would, the Latino gangs in particular, these guys, the new inmates, would be required to do certain things in violation of the rules to prove themselves to their car, which is the gang, were in prison. And the politics of this, I know, because I was a Democratic governor.
01:39:35.380Well, wait, stand by, stand by. I want to talk all about that. Forgive me, but we're out of time on the SiriusXM.
01:39:41.060One o'clock hour, but we're going to pick back up on the two o'clock hour in five seconds. We take a quick break. We'll be right back with the governor.
01:41:23.720Only on the Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.
01:41:32.820Former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich is back with me now.
01:41:36.440We are discussing the murder of Sheridan Gorman and why the former governor believes that this illegal immigrant who is accused of killing her may have done so as part of a gang initiation.
01:41:48.040So you're saying in prison, did you did you just have to commit a crime in order to join a gang or go so far as to commit a murder?
01:41:56.400No, no, I never saw anybody get murdered as part of a gang initiation in prison.
01:42:00.360But I saw several instances over those unhappy nearly eight years of some of the gangbanger inmates who had to.
01:42:10.600They had to become part of the larger gang and had to prove themselves to be part of the group.
01:42:15.760And they were required to go out and do certain things.
01:42:18.280They were against the rules, whether they were crimes or not.
01:42:22.880It really didn't matter. Whatever the prison rules were, they were instructed to go break them. It could have been, for example, get the first kick in against another inmate who was part of the group who had done something outside of the gang's requirements.
01:42:37.620They would do this thing called group justice, where they would get all gathered together and each member of the group would strike a blow against the fallen, misbehaved gangbanger.
01:42:50.900So this kind of stuff is sort of tradition and culture.
01:42:57.300And, you know, I grew up in a rough and tough neighborhood when I was a kid growing up.
01:43:00.180So I wasn't exactly immune to how street gangs operated either.
01:43:03.900And what I see with this particular case cries out to me that it was it had to be a gang initiation.
01:43:10.020What are the motivation that this guy have to kill that poor, innocent girl like he did where he did dressed as he was?
01:43:19.100And the fact now that they're keeping him in hiding, which I really believe they're doing, would suggest that they know exactly what the motivation was.
01:43:27.840OK, now explain that, because what we've been told is he missed his first court appearance because he has tuberculosis and he was hospitalized and is reportedly being kept in isolation in any event in the prison.
01:43:41.060So what what why is that suspicious to you?
01:43:43.340Well, I believe the Democratic Governor Pritzker said the word down that they wanted to not change the narrative that the Democrats have had when it comes to illegal immigrants, because what this does is it blows up the narrative.
01:43:54.700And what it does is it shows that everything President Trump's been about and what he's been trying to do to rid our communities of criminal, illegal immigrants is very real and that they are here committing very real crimes like killing innocent young girls.
01:44:10.840This goes against their narrative and it goes against the narrative, not just of Governor Pritzker or Mayor Johnson, but against the entire Democratic Party today.
01:44:18.840And it's among the reasons why I think.
01:44:20.260How would keeping him in isolation solve this problem?
01:44:24.700Well, I think the isolation is a holding pattern until the smoke settles and they can get past this being front page news and just basically bury it under the rug or hide it in the closet.
01:44:41.220And I do know that Democratic judges here in Cook County are susceptible to sometimes getting the word from on high and making decisions outside of what is right or wrong.
01:44:51.600Is there a possibility of if he's a gang member and he gets thrown in prison pending a trial or obviously in here, I think it would just be the arraignment that he could be in danger from other gang members worried he might squeal or, you know, is that is that a thing?
01:45:08.020That is a thing. And you're asking a very good question. Yes, of course, that's a thing. And I saw that happen, too, during those eight years, where from time to time, somebody who was a snitch. The mantra in prison is snitches are bitches who get stitches. They would be punished for doing that.
01:45:25.780And I even was told the story about someone that converted it in the prison I was in when I first got there only two weeks before because that guy had been the recipient of a hit that came out from the Sinaloa cartel drugs because that guy was going to be a, I guess, testify against some of the activities of the Sinaloa cartel drugs, drug dealers.
01:45:46.600So, no, I think all of this fits in with that experience that I had, the narrative, because the other side of it is that this was just some random killing and he decided to just shoot some innocent person and nobody else.
01:45:59.700With only a shoplifting crime on his record, not a violent past, at least not here in America, that we know of.
01:46:07.360So, yeah, he went from zero to 60 fast.
01:47:08.940It stands for Insane Vice Lords, which actually makes sense because the pinky looks like an I, and then you've got the other two fingers looking like a V, and I suppose the index finger and the thumb could be an L.
01:47:25.460They're called that, or they're called the Almighty Vice Lords Nation.
01:47:28.800The Department of Justice says that this enterprise began in Chicago, which is still considered its headquarters, has a bunch of different divisions now.
01:47:40.620They became one of Chicago's largest and most influential street gangs, heavily tied to narcotics.
01:47:46.460And per a 2015 handbook from the Florida Department of Corrections, they write that members often have tattoos either on their hand below the thumb to identify themselves or as a protective mechanism for members facing possible jail time.
01:48:16.460Dang. Yeah. We didn't see it in the hand making the gang sign, but we do see it in his right hand
01:48:20.760holding a phone and decked out in bling. And his other hand is decked out in bling too. He appears
01:48:26.480to be wearing what's probably a fake Rolex. I don't know what he's wearing, but he's blinged
01:48:31.640out. He's got the hoodie sweatshirt on. He's got the Michael Jordan cap. That's a thing. The Michael
01:48:36.200Jordan cap, Michael Jordan clothing. We saw this with, uh, what's his name over in Maryland,
01:48:42.000Maryland man, Calmar Abrego-Garcia, and he's with another guy wearing a hoodie, a red hoodie
01:48:48.800next to him. So there's some circumstantial evidence, Gov, that maybe this guy is in a gang.
01:48:56.160He got here in 2023 and promptly joined a gang. Great job. Great job, Joe Biden.
01:49:03.240What's really sickening is the fact that he's being protected by the Democratic Party.
01:49:07.140he and others like him they have become the priority of the today's democratic party governor
01:49:12.180prisker's gone to war with the president united states to protect guys like him and they don't
01:49:17.240want to change the narrative that's why i firmly believe they're doing what they can to try to
01:49:21.100keep this low keep them hidden and um and not allow the narrative that's truthful to come out
01:49:27.500what's interesting megan is loyola university and i know this area real well because i live actually
01:49:32.140not that far away. My daughters have walked on that beach. But Loyola University has a
01:49:38.360student newspaper, and they came out today with an apology, essentially an apology,
01:49:43.580apologizing that he was referred to, Jose Medina Medina was referred to for what he is,
01:49:47.920an illegal immigrant. And they apologized for the use of the phrase illegal immigrant.
01:49:53.580They didn't express any condolences to Sheridan Gorman or her family. It was just trying to,
01:49:59.760I get make it right with the immigrant activist community that has become part now of the mainstream of the Democrat Party.
01:50:08.320And they don't want any narrative that goes against how they're trying to describe the circumstances of all these people came to America in violation of the law.
01:50:17.220Now, 10 to 15 percent of them, the best estimates, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, are criminals.
01:50:24.000All the others have come here. They broke the law. They're probably not criminals.
01:50:27.860They're trying to work to make a better life for themselves.
01:50:30.120But whether they're criminals or not, they came here illegally.
01:50:33.220And if we're going to be a country that respects the rule of law, well, I mean, we have responsibilities to, you know, enforce that law.
01:50:42.200The Democrats have decided to block the enforcement of that law for their political agenda.
01:50:47.360And this guy is now caught up in that political game that the Democrats are playing.
01:50:51.760I mean, I guess we'll find out because if he was in a gang in 2023, then he probably wasn't doing a gang initiation in 2026. But there is some circumstantial evidence here that the guy was flirting with the gang life, possibly in gang life.
01:51:12.040And in the absence of any other motive on this horrific crime, which makes no sense, you've got to at least go there.
01:51:20.840As Julie Kelly, who's done great, great reporting on the federal judges and what they're doing to President Trump's agenda, and in particular how they tried to stymie his attempt to get out Venezuelan, that's what this guy is, Venezuelan gang members, and Judge Boseberg in Washington, D.C., issuing a national injunction stopping it.
01:51:39.300she tweeted out the following. She wrote, um, she finds the tuberculosis, tuberculosis isolation
01:51:48.260suspicious. And she says this photo that we're showing you, if it's him could raise the
01:51:53.040possibility that Sheridan's execution was part of a gang initiation. She writes, if this animal
01:51:58.360is Trenda Aragua, God help every single activist group and judge starting with Jeb Bosberg who
01:52:06.020blocked his deportation. Because remember, Trump tried to get all Trender-Aragua out of the country
01:52:10.980and back to Venezuela in one fell swoop, and Bozberg stopped it. And she pointed out,
01:52:16.440I want to talk to you about Democrat politicians for sure, including Pritzker and Brandon Johnson,
01:52:22.260the mayor. But let me just play you this Julie Kelly soundbite. She went on with our pals,
01:52:26.500Real Clear Politics, great podcast and precedes my own show here on the MK channel and SiriusXM
01:52:31.420Channel 111. And she made a great point about how the judges, too, are complicit in allowing
01:52:38.460these Venezuelan illegal gang members to stay in our country, whether this guy is one or not.
01:52:45.580They have permitted people just like him to stay here with impunity. Listen to her.
01:52:52.120One other party that I think is very culpable in all of this are federal judges. Think about
01:53:00.080what's happening in Washington, D.C. with Chief Judge Jeb Bosberg, who basically was the first
01:53:06.980judge to put a hold, to put a brick on the President's Alien Enemies Act proclamation
01:53:13.600that authorized the immediate removal of Venezuelans, illegal Venezuelans who were here,
01:53:20.580who were tied to Trendelagua. Not only did Jeb Bosberg put a hold on that policy that then
01:53:27.900manifested nationwide. To add to that, Jeb Bosberg is still, and this case is still pending,
01:53:35.520trying to order the Trump administration to fly these 137 illegal Venezuelans men,
01:53:43.040who were then sent to El Salvador, then to their home country, Venezuelan,
01:53:47.100to return them to the United States. Still now, a year later, the Supreme Court punted on this.
01:53:53.640We're still waiting for a final ruling. But when you have judges and even the Supreme Court sort of look the other way as the president and his administration are trying to remove the most dangerous criminals who cross the border illegally during the Biden administration, what does that signal to the illegals who are there?
01:54:21.040Look, let me firmly assert, to borrow from Franklin Roosevelt, Jose Medina Medina is a gangbanger. Let me also firmly assert that the chances are that he's a member of Trendy Aragua are extremely good. And the most compelling evidence to suggest that to me is how the Democrats are treating this particular heinous crime against this poor, innocent young girl because of the fact that that goes against everything they've been saying with regard to illegal immigration and proves everything that President Trump's been saying.
01:54:50.700That's what I really believe is happening. And I think Pritzker's made the phone calls to the judges and whoever else is necessary, the prosecutors, to do what they can to try to keep this quiet and not let the truth out.
01:55:02.180Well, let me let me add another element to it right now, because J.B. Pritzker wants to be president. He wants the nomination and he wants the top job.
01:55:13.020this could completely sink his chances. This truly could be the death knell to his presidential
01:55:19.940campaign. He rejected President Trump's offer of help to try to get the illegals out of Illinois.
01:55:29.620Even before the Minneapolis riots and all that, Trump went to him and said, I want to send ICE
01:55:36.140in to help you with your illegal immigration problem. And he wrapped himself in the flag
01:55:42.640and tried to pretend it was the patriotic thing to do to refuse that help and to instead protect
01:55:48.980the illegals, including Jose Medina Medina. Here is what Governor Pritzker said. It's like a little
01:55:56.880montage, I think, about Trump when Trump was making that offer and actually trying to insist
01:56:02.860that he'd be allowed to clean up the streets of the illegals. Here's what Pritzker said.
01:56:07.700What President Trump is doing is unprecedented and unwarranted. It is unconstitutional.
01:56:16.360It is un-American. Find a family who's enjoying today sitting on their front porch and ask if
01:56:24.160they want their neighborhoods turned into a war zone by a wannabe dictator. Our small businesses
01:56:29.960suffer when our residents and visitors who are shopping and eating are made to feel unsafe
01:56:34.800by the jackbooted thugs roaming around a peaceful downtown.
01:56:38.460Make sure that you understand that the ICE officials don't have a right to knock down
01:57:06.340Eight months later, Sheridan Gorman was gunned down by an illegal from Venezuela,
01:57:12.920who, for all we know, might have been caught by Tom Homan's guys had they been allowed to get rid of the illegals prowling the streets.
01:57:22.640This you can the campaign ad writes itself.
01:57:25.440You're a politician. Can't you see it? This is very dangerous for J.B. Pritzker.
01:57:30.620And that's the motivation to do everything he can to cover this up. And then look at his behavior
01:57:34.460in the immediate wake of this murder. He didn't say anything for four days. It wasn't until,
01:57:40.680you know, the pressure was on. People had noticed he hadn't said anything,
01:57:44.080that he actually had a spokesperson put out a statement. He didn't even say it.
01:57:47.880Brandon Johnson, same thing. They were just hoping it would kind of go away and not become
01:57:53.460a political issue that now it has correctly become, because this really highlights the
01:57:58.320question. Is it about public safety first? Is that the responsibility of governors and mayors
01:58:02.860and presidents? Or is it about protecting gangbangers and gangbangers from other countries
01:58:07.660who work into our country illegally? That's the issue. And the Democrats have sided with the
01:58:11.840latter. Trump has sided with the former. We have laws, enforce those laws, and execute those laws.
01:58:18.460But Pritzker has spent his entire second term using all of his resources and energy to try to make himself a viable presidential candidate on the backs of public safety of law-abiding citizens, including this poor young girl.
01:59:16.340And it's a disgrace what they're doing. And I shouldn't joke about this because we lost a young life. I think about those parents. I have two young daughters myself. We can all who are parents sort of walk in their shoes and understand what they're going through and pray that God has a warm, loving place for her near to him. But this should have never happened. It should have never happened if they simply followed the law instead of playing politics.
01:59:39.540Pritzker politicized this. Brandon Johnson politicized this. The Democrats have politicized
01:59:44.280this. And now I think they've got a real political problem on their hands.
01:59:49.840Brandon Johnson continues, just like Pritzker, to blame Trump. It's like it's one thing to not
01:59:57.440take responsibility for your city and state policies, but to blame a president who is
02:00:03.520actively trying, who has actively tried to put ICE agents in your city and state in Chicago
02:00:09.680to clean it up of illegals, to turn the nerve of the gaslighting that is like epic level.
02:00:15.480Here's Brandon Johnson on Tuesday, SOT 54.
02:00:19.620You know what the bigger threat to our public safety is illegal weapons that are being trafficked
02:00:26.080from bordering states that voted for Donald Trump.
02:00:32.400This president refuses to be held accountable,
02:00:36.880and he points the finger at everything and everyone else
02:00:39.960versus doing some real self-reflection on what his responsibility is.
02:00:46.820So let's just stick with the word that you like to use, illegal.
02:00:53.580he is protecting states that are releasing illegal weapons throughout the streets of
02:01:00.840america illegal tariffs if there is anything to address in this country that's illegal
02:01:09.060it's everything about the trump administration
02:01:11.900that's it's just he tries to pivot he doesn't want to take one bit of responsibility or even
02:01:21.700Rod to apologize. He was asked yesterday, we found the name of that great reporter who asked
02:01:26.500him a tough question about, do you want to apologize to poor Sheridan Gorman's family
02:01:30.900for the policies that got her killed? And his name is William Kelly. No relation, but very proud of
02:01:36.440him. And he wouldn't. He just kept going, oh, it's just senseless violence, gun violence, senseless
02:01:42.160gun violence and Trump's fault. I mean, par for the course, a day ending in Y for Democrats in
02:01:48.040Chicago, no? Well, we have the local alderwoman from that neighborhood said he was in the wrong
02:01:53.700place at the wrong time. She shared it was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Chicago sometimes
02:01:58.040didn't have a headline saying the same thing. This is all the Democrat narrative. And it's
02:02:02.880interesting, too, because it's not uncommon for politicians when they're, you know, facing
02:02:06.920something that they did really wrong or failed in their duty, which is the case with Johnson and
02:02:11.240Pritzker, to quickly pivot and point the blame at somebody else, which they're not doing. Let
02:02:15.900me point this out, Megan. Days before this killing, Pritzker had announced a commission
02:02:20.740that he's forming to investigate who? ICE agents and law enforcement officials so that in the event
02:02:26.600that a Democrat president in 2028, they're going to be held accountable for doing their jobs and
02:02:32.160enforcing the law to find illegal immigrants, many of whom are criminals, and kick them out
02:02:36.500of our country. So now this happened and it sort of steps on his storyline and just goes to show
02:02:42.900priorities are. I can't even believe he's done that these people are elected. He is.
02:02:48.960No, he is toast. There is just no way. The Democrats really want to win in 2028. They are
02:02:54.980really, really over the Trump presidency and the Trump legacy. And they're they are not going to
02:03:00.260nominate somebody with this level of baggage on this issue. They need somebody who can go up there
02:03:06.240and make the case of the horrors in Minneapolis. Ice overreach. They're disgusting pigs. We hate
02:03:11.540them. And they do not want somebody who's going to be vulnerable to because you wouldn't let that
02:03:18.320horrible group come in and help the young women of Chicago. Sheridan Gorman is dead. They can't.
02:03:25.080He's done. The more I look at this story and see his on-camera comments, like the ones I played
02:03:30.540for you over and over, there's a litany of them. The more I realize he's toast. He is toast and
02:03:37.420good because we can't, we can't have more of him. And I don't like Brandon Johnson. I don't know
02:03:41.260what Chicago is doing, Rod, but let me ask you about the sanctuary city policy. Cause I went,
02:03:45.920you, you left office in 2009 in, in 2017 is when Illinois became a sanctuary state,
02:03:51.740but Chicago did it back in 1985. So what did something change in the way, like I lived in
02:03:59.180Chicago for five years between, I don't know, it was between 1995 and 2001. And it wasn't,
02:04:08.620it was, Chicago was wonderful back then. That was, you know, Mayor Daley, you could eat off
02:04:11.820the streets. It was like so clean. What, I don't remember a big problem of illegals. You know,
02:04:17.140there was Cabrini Green, which is where like most of the gangbangers lived. And that was a way,
02:04:20.920kind of away from the sprawling downtown and Michigan Avenue. But like, what is it with
02:04:25.380chicago and now illinois and the sanctuary status well a lot of it i gotta tell you is about votes
02:04:31.440i have to tell you these illegal immigrants are voting they're not just voting in chicago i bet
02:04:37.940they're voting big time in california why else would these democrats fight so hard for them to
02:04:42.740keep them in our country when it used to be the democratic party agreed that illegal immigrants
02:04:47.420should be deported look i believe in the dreamers program and i believe there's hopefully the
02:04:52.620Republicans and Democrats can come together at some point and find a way to address the needs
02:04:57.000of these good people who came, you know, violated immigration laws and ought to stay. That's my
02:05:01.780personal belief. A lot of those dreamers actually serve in our military. They work
02:05:05.640and they're not criminals. But none of that's going to happen as long as our country is so
02:05:10.920divided on the immigration issues and the Democrats refuse to do anything to address
02:05:15.660all of the millions who came here when Biden unlocked the door and let them all in. There's
02:05:20.860got to be like 15 million. I mean, they they would say the Democrats would say they can't vote if
02:05:24.760they're not a citizen. Everyone has to provide proof of citizenship in order to get registered
02:05:31.020to vote. That's what they still claim. Right. Well, it isn't true. And and this is the part
02:05:36.660of the motivation behind fighting so hard for these illegal immigrants. It's a it's a voting
02:05:41.000block for them. And look, Obama and I came out of Chicago politics at the same time.
02:05:46.880This wasn't back then what it is now when it comes to the number of illegal immigrants.
02:05:52.060But if you're asking me, do Democrats steal votes in places like Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Atlanta, and big cities across the country?
02:06:03.900I think both of us won our elections irrespective of how many people were doing that on our behalf.
02:06:08.520But that's just how politics works in Chicago and works in big cities.
02:06:12.200And I know exactly where they do it. And they do it in low income areas where they control polling places. And they do it through what used to be absentee ballots, which became bail-in ballots, which are absentee ballots on steroids. The fact that the Democrats refuse to vote for the Save America Act, show voter ID, proof of citizenship, you know, all of these things tell you there's got to be a reason why. It's because they vote them. And they vote the way they're told because they're unsophisticated voters and they can be controlled.
02:06:40.740And the Democrat Party, I used to be a member. I still consider myself a Trumpocrat, Democrat for Trump. But the Democratic Party has really been about coalitions. And this is the new coalition of the Democrat Party, the new voting bloc, illegal immigrants.
02:06:54.080how exactly would they do it because you know when you if you want an absentee ballot you do
02:07:00.980at least where i live you do have to send in you know your driver's license something that would
02:07:04.620prove that you that you your driver's license doesn't necessarily prove that you're uh an
02:07:09.980american citizen but in any event how like how do they do it how do they get the illegals
02:07:14.100ballots that they could fill out in the first place well i mean so they have organizations
02:07:21.820these grassroots organizations that are immigrant rights groups and you know they're active in the
02:07:27.220community they work closely with the local democratic political organizations and i believe
02:07:32.560they you know coordinate efforts to go vote as many people as they possibly can and whatever
02:07:36.960the you know tactics or subterfuge they use whether it's through a mail-in ballot or an
02:07:41.480absentee ballot or whether it's just there at the polling place and somebody shows up
02:07:45.320and is just voting somebody else's name who didn't show up which is a not uncommon practice
02:07:51.420in places where Democrats control the whole polling place. The Republican judges in those
02:07:57.600polling places are really Democrats dressed up as Republicans just for appearances sake.
02:08:02.840So there's several ways to do it. Back in the day when I was starting, even before I got into
02:08:07.620politics and I was a young lawyer, I'd worked as a prosecutor in the Cook County State Attorney's
02:08:11.220office for then Cook County State Attorney Richard Daley. He was my boss. There were like 800 of us.
02:08:16.620I was in the misdemeanor courts. I never met him until I actually got elected to office.
02:08:20.260but back then I was after I'd left and gone into private practice and I met my wife her father was
02:08:25.840a Chicago ward boss and and you know 50 60 percent of his district his ward was Latino voters they
02:08:33.060were always very good to me and good to him and we were very close to the Latino community and still
02:08:37.160are but among the ways you can get votes was you'd have a guy and I'm going to name him he he's a
02:08:43.680was a good guy, a political activist, the way it was in Chicago. He would go into the homes of
02:08:50.540immigrants and unregistered voters, get them registered, and then he would vote them absentee.
02:08:57.360But then he would gather and collect and bundle the absentee ballots and put them in a freezer.
02:09:01.880Because if you put them in a freezer and you freeze them, you can look and see how the person
02:09:07.560voted. And if you don't like how they voted, you can spoil the ballot and go back and have them do
02:09:12.160it a second time this is one example of one guy who was very active he got indicted uh in cook
02:09:17.460county and i was asked by my father-in-law to go represent him at a grand jury and um it turned out
02:09:24.440he wouldn't say i told him just don't say anything because that's a lawyer you're a lawyer you know
02:09:28.240this don't say anything and he took literally took me took my advice wouldn't even say his name on
02:09:33.640the record um nothing happened to him but that was a practice back then just imagine what they're
02:09:39.720doing now with this whole block of tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of illegal
02:09:46.060immigrants who are here and are just going to do what the local community leaders are asking them
02:09:50.840to do because they're being helped in other ways. That's how I think they're doing it. And I believe
02:09:56.440it's happening largely in places like in sanctuary cities. And that's why they're being given
02:10:02.980sanctuary, which in my opinion, seems to be so unconstitutional and so unlawful that you'd have
02:10:08.720a place that basically invites people from other countries that break into our country,
02:10:12.140come to our city, and we'll protect you. That's the new Democratic Party today. That's what
02:10:16.240they're saying. And too many of these people who come are good people. Most of them are good
02:10:20.740people. They're coming for an opportunity to work. But they've been misled by the Democrats.
02:10:24.520We've invited them in to come in, and they believe that they'll be protected in these
02:10:28.060sanctuary cities, which they are, and then they won't be found out. But the American people have
02:10:33.020woken up, and we have a problem that cannot be sustained, because how can you possibly sustain
02:10:37.80015 million people who came into our country illegally and burdened the taxpayers and then
02:10:43.180take resources away from people, Americans who truly need it, like underprivileged communities,
02:10:47.920the black community, for example, the Democrats say they're poor, but they're not.
02:10:51.980I'm sorry if they're nice people. I'm sorry if a lot of them are nice people and just want a
02:10:55.520better life. If we have even one Sheridan Gorman, it's not worth it. It's not worth it. They come
02:11:01.360at too high a price because for every 10 you let in who just want to improve their lives,
02:11:04.940you get a Jose Medina Medina. And the next thing you know, poor Sheridan has nothing.
02:11:10.460Her future has ended. Her family will be hurting forever. And for what? For what? That's really
02:11:17.080the question you're asking. You have a theory for what? And it makes no, there's no redeeming value
02:11:22.680to what that man brought into the United States, none whatsoever. It's a wonderful thing to see
02:11:28.760you. I hope you come back on when your book hits in August. Thanks. I appreciate that. I look
02:11:33.200forward to it. It's nice to see you. It's been a couple of years, hasn't it? I know. Yeah. But
02:11:37.620I really enjoyed our talk when you got out of the pokey. So thanks for coming on and talking about
02:11:42.560it. Well, Steve, look up the episode number so we can tell them that what that is. See you soon,
02:11:46.220Rod. There's, there's a lot, there's a lot more to go on and I'm going to end the show now because
02:11:52.660I want to get to let Emily do the after show and folks can call in and so on. But I just want to
02:11:57.180tell you it's episode 274. If you want to listen to the long form interview between yours truly
02:12:03.180in Rod Blagojevich. It's really good, 274. It talks all about his life in prison and like,
02:12:07.800did he join a gang? How did he stay protected? And was he violated? We went there. We went
02:12:12.740everywhere. And he was great. In New York City, today, there is a piece about an 83-year-old
02:12:20.500veteran who was shoved under the New York City subway tracks days ago, and he's just died
02:12:26.820from his injuries. An 83-year-old U.S. Air Force veteran randomly shoved onto the subway tracks by
02:12:34.400an illegal on the Upper East Side, and now grandfather Richard Williams is dead. He succumbed
02:12:42.800to his injuries after being pushed by another man waiting for a train at the Lexington Avenue
02:12:49.16063rd Street station on March 8th. Just, you know, just FYI, whatever. Lex and 63rd is a very nice
02:12:57.580part of town. You know, it's not like a sketchy part where you might think, oh God, don't get
02:13:03.840down on the subway. No, it's like completely smack dab in the middle of the business district.
02:13:07.980It's not far away from where Bernie Madoff used to have his offices. And this guy is standing,
02:13:13.020this 83-year-old man who has fought in war for the United States of America. There are pictures
02:13:19.840of him, quite a few I've seen now, of him wearing his dog tags. He was clearly really proud of his
02:13:24.820military service, and he lived to tell about it, only to be killed by some thug illegal down
02:13:33.380on the subway tracks. The alleged attacker was from Honduras. Look at this absolute scumbag.
02:14:10.180yeah you can see there's the perpetrator the accused perpetrator kind of lingering on the
02:14:17.240tracks after he has shoved richard down on the tracks and then another man he shoved helped
02:14:23.320richard get back up get back up so he lived through the attack but as i say died a couple
02:14:29.780of weeks later prosecutors had said that williams richard williams was brain dead and his daughter
02:14:35.540Debbie told the New York Post he was not likely to pull through, they could see. And it's been
02:14:40.420declared a homicide, of course. Another man named John Pena was also shoved under the tracks,
02:14:45.540age 30. And he's the one who heroically helped pull Williams back on the platform, but to no
02:14:50.900avail. He's died. He has now died. For what? Why? Why do we have to deal with this guy? He,
02:14:59.760this guy Hernandez, was a serial criminal. I mean, you knew this was coming. Serial criminal,
02:15:04.840lengthy rap sheet, at least 15 charges, including aggravated assault, possession of a weapon,
02:15:12.300domestic violence, and so on, according to DHS. He had been deported from the United States
02:15:18.380four times, but kept returning to the country illegally, again, per DHS. How many times do
02:15:26.260we have to have this story? How many times? That's Kate Steinle's murderer's story too.
02:15:31.800deported five times. Long rap sheet. We don't know. The guy, you know, accused of killing Sheridan
02:15:41.840was allegedly only arrested for shoplifting back in 2023. Didn't even show up. No penalty. It's
02:15:49.380fine. We let them in. We don't follow up on where they are. We let them commit crime with impunity.
02:15:56.560We don't, in most of these jurisdictions, cooperate with ICE to at least, if not going to prosecute
02:16:00.900to make sure he at least gets the boot out of the country. And we set them loose. We send out
02:16:06.580our young girls like lambs to the slaughter, to be fucking slaughtered by these thug illegals.
02:16:12.980And then you have places like the student newspaper, as Rod pointed out, at Loyola,
02:16:18.700which is called the Loyola Phoenix, writing articles apologizing for calling them illegal
02:16:24.840immigrants. I mean, spend a day on the Megyn Kelly show. They're illegal thug pigs. That's
02:16:30.860what they are. Does that solve it for you, Phoenix? Who the hell's worried about their feelings?
02:16:37.220Sheridan Gorman is dead. And you're worried about hurting the feelings of this illegal?
02:16:43.480You're worried about offending him by calling him not even an illegal alien, but an illegal
02:16:47.420immigrant? They write that no human's existence is illegal. And we quickly changed our wording
02:16:53.420to reflect that. It is a reference to one's immigration status, not to one's humanity.
02:17:00.860They know that. It's more important to them to kowtow to the woke reading their woke, low circulation newspaper to pat themselves on the back.
02:17:13.520You're part of the problem. They say, oh, we took the headline down immediately.
02:17:17.380It didn't reflect the most important elements in the story, took it down moments later to prevent any further harm to affected community members.
02:17:24.160Who? You have a bunch of thug illegals in your community? No normal Hispanic person is going to be offended by the use of the word illegal. Is that what you mean, Hispanics? No normal Asian, no normal African is going to be offended by the term illegal.
02:17:40.580What are you assuming about the people reading your newspaper?
02:17:45.100They go on to say that language was provided by DHS, but it doesn't align with the Associated Press style, nor with the values of this newspaper.
02:17:56.620We acknowledge the harm such language can cause and the power and importance of the words we choose to use.
02:18:02.500Yes, the words are important, but not in the way you think.