The Megyn Kelly Show - Major Revelations in Savannah Guthrie's First Interview, and Possible Gang Connection to Sheridan Gorman Murder, with Gov. Rod Blagojevich ｜ Ep. 1282

00:00:00.660 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.360 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.340 I should have done this yesterday, but I'm going to do it today.

00:00:17.760 Happy birthday, Steve Krakauer.

00:00:20.580 It was his birthday. We forgot to say it on the air, but we love him.

00:00:23.540 He's our executive producer.

00:00:24.680 He's been with us since the beginning of the show

00:00:26.880 and doesn't get nearly enough credit for all the hard work and amazing, amazing contributions he

00:00:32.400 makes to not just the show, but the entire company. MK Media and all of our programs there

00:00:37.980 and MK True Crime and all of it. So Steve, we love you. Happy birthday. Okay. Today, wow. Wow.

00:00:44.480 Unbelievable news breaking. We've, first of all, got more on our investigation into the murder of

00:00:49.680 18-year-old college student Sheridan Gorman in Chicago. This poor, poor girl. Blago's going to 0.99

00:00:55.520 be here. Yes, former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich, friend of the show, on why he does

00:01:00.240 not think we're getting the full story about the suspected killer, Venezuela illegal immigrant,

00:01:06.100 Jose Medina. Wait until you hear what he has to say. Obviously, he knows Illinois,

00:01:11.140 and he's got thoughts on how they're misleading us in his estimation. But we begin with the latest

00:01:18.580 on Nancy Guthrie and what an update we have. The 84-year-old mother of NBC anchor Savannah Guthrie

00:01:25.160 has not been seen since January 31st.

00:01:28.280 Authorities believe she was forcibly abducted

00:01:30.700 in the early hours overnight,

00:01:33.460 Saturday night, January 31st,

00:01:35.020 into Sunday, February 1st.

00:01:37.640 This was out of her Tucson, Arizona home,

00:01:40.280 one hour away from the Mexican border.

00:01:43.380 This morning, we heard for the first time

00:01:46.040 from Savannah at length in an interview,

00:01:49.500 sitting down with Hoda Kotb on the Today Show

00:01:51.680 for her first interview since the kidnapping.

00:01:54.220 Here she is describing the moment she learned her mother, Nancy, was missing.

00:02:24.220 She's like, I did.

00:02:25.020 We've called them.

00:02:25.860 They're here.

00:02:26.860 And we thought that she must have had like some kind of medical episode in the night and that somehow, you know, the paramedics had come because the back doors were propped open, you know, and that didn't make any sense.

00:02:45.320 We thought maybe they came and there's a stretcher and they took her out the back, but her phone was there and her purse was there and all her things.

00:02:54.220 And it just didn't make any sense. So, you know, Annie and Tommy had already called all the hospitals.

00:03:01.980 But then I'm like, I'm going to call the hospital. So then I started calling the hospitals and and the police were there and talking to her at the same time.

00:03:10.520 And it was just chaos and disbelief.

00:03:15.700 There is so much more to get to, including real information about the investigation that was divulged, which I have in a few soundbites.

00:03:22.280 we're going to play for you. We want to bring in our experts. James Hamilton is a former FBI

00:03:26.180 supervisory special agent and creator of the FBI's Close Protection School, which is a specialized

00:03:32.000 training program designed for agents to protect high-level individuals or officials. Eric O'Neill

00:03:39.780 is a former FBI counterintelligence operative and author of the book Spies, Lies, and Cybercrime.

00:03:44.920 he helped catch one of the most notorious spies in U.S. history. And Randy Sutton is a 34-year

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00:04:59.460 your first order. Guys, welcome back. A stunning update just to hear Savannah on camera speaking

00:05:06.400 one-on-one with Hoda and telling some of what she knows about this crime. So there was part one

00:05:14.020 where she revealed the moment where she found out from her sister, Annie, that their mom was 0.73

00:05:20.220 missing. Annie and Tomas, they call him Tommy, we learned it from this interview, showed up to the

00:05:25.620 mother's house, saw that the phone was there, the purse was there, all of her things, said Savannah,

00:05:30.700 but the mother was not. And, um, she, she talked about, you know, calling the hospitals and

00:05:39.400 disbelief and not really understanding. Then she went on, hold on. She went on to talk about how

00:05:44.140 there was no way her mother could have wandered off. And she added new details, uh, from there.

00:05:50.000 Take a listen here to SOT2. She can't wander off. My mom, her, her, she was in tremendous pain.

00:05:57.700 her back was very bad you know she was trying to on a good day she could walk down to the

00:06:05.080 mailbox and get the mail but most days not so there was no wander off and the doors were

00:06:12.320 popped open yeah and there was blood on the front doorstep and the ring camera had been

00:06:19.260 yanked off. And so we were saying this is do something. This is not OK. Yeah, this isn't

00:06:27.720 something is very wrong here. So there you have new information, which we had not heard before,

00:06:37.280 James, about the door, the back door being propped open, propped open, she said. Now,

00:06:43.760 she mentioned the blood on the doorstep that we knew. And we've got an update on the blood,

00:06:48.060 too that we'll get to in a minute, but that was an interesting detail that the back door was open

00:06:53.180 and it was propped open and really kind of putting to rest once and for all the idea that

00:07:00.380 Nancy Guthrie walked out of there on her own. We did not know about the terrible, painful back

00:07:06.780 where on a good day she could walk to the mailbox. Your thoughts on what we've heard so far?

00:07:12.060 Yeah, good to see you again.

00:07:13.620 The purse and the phone being there, I feel like that's new to me.

00:07:19.160 Maybe I knew the phone was there, but I didn't know the purse.

00:07:21.780 So, of course, it's obviously tragic to watch her go through that.

00:07:27.600 I think I have more questions now than before.

00:07:30.300 And one of my biggest questions is, why are we messing around with the front door?

00:07:34.180 Why is there blood on the front door?

00:07:35.440 If we have a propped open back door, why aren't we just going out that way?

00:07:39.520 So I have more questions now than I had before.

00:07:43.400 Yes.

00:07:44.000 Why would the door be propped open, Eric?

00:07:46.460 I agree.

00:07:47.040 I don't understand.

00:07:48.620 Propped open, and we don't, I'm just going to take a moment and give a little editorial

00:07:52.980 of my own on this from a journalistic perspective.

00:07:55.400 You don't have to comment on this.

00:07:56.840 But I, with respect, I have to say, I think Hoda Kotb fell down on the job and I don't

00:08:02.420 think she was the woman for the interview.

00:08:04.200 They put her out there because they use this as a promotional vehicle. 0.96

00:08:06.960 The two are friends. Look, we're a big family. Look at them relating. They kept her mic up for her empathetic sounds and her active listening, which was actually a major distraction and very odd in the choice because normally the network would turn down Hoda's mic during Savannah's very compelling answers, especially in an interview this big.

00:08:29.380 The reason they left Hoda's mic open is because, I'm telling you, NBC had an agenda here, which was to show you one big happy family, look how empathetic she is.

00:08:39.080 It was an inappropriate choice, journalistically, because it served as only a distraction.

00:08:44.340 This interview was not about Hoda, it was about Savannah.

00:08:47.560 And I'm sorry, but Hoda kept wiping away tears that weren't there either.

00:08:51.340 This was acting on Hoda Kotb's part, and it was a distraction and an unnecessary one.

00:08:56.460 But my real complaint about the way that Hoda handled this was there were no follow ups, none, and therefore it was not journalistically sound. She did not ask very basic questions like, what do you mean propped open? That's it. Not I'm not talking about you go for the jugular. You treat her like she's a hostile witness. I mean, very basic reportorial ABCs.

00:09:21.540 What does propped open mean? And the sins got worse as the interview went along. I objected to how it was handled. I'm just being honest. I'm not trying to be petty. I'm trying to be honest about what I saw there and what should have happened in an interview this big.

00:09:37.860 But, okay, Eric, we didn't get a follow-up on what propped open means, nor on what the family believes happened there, because we now know that there's blood on the front steps, front stoop or porch.

00:09:56.260 I'm going to play Ashley Banfield's reporting in a minute, but Ashley's now reporting that there were, that the blood we knew happened in the house was indeed on the inside part by the front door, which is what we'd speculated but didn't know.

00:10:09.860 And yet the back door is the one being, quote, propped open.

00:10:14.840 So what do you make of that?

00:10:16.120 Well, I would, first of all, on the interview, it seemed to me that the interview was a little bit more of Savannah just talking.

00:10:23.200 And you could certainly feel the pain coming through.

00:10:26.440 So more of like a monologue than an interview.

00:10:28.460 So I see where you're going there.

00:10:30.320 And obviously for the family, this is an immense tragedy.

00:10:32.960 And of course, the fact that they just don't know what happened to their mother, this is Savannah and her siblings, is certainly coming through in the motion that Savannah was feeling there.

00:10:42.740 As for the door, yeah, I thought it was also curious to say that it was propped open.

00:10:46.460 That suggests, of course, what we thought all along, that they went in through the back and with the blood near the front door probably brought her out through the front.

00:10:55.620 If you're going to move her out quickly and if this was actually an abduction, and Savannah certainly seems to say a number of times that she still believes it's a kidnapping, then you're going to move her out the front door, which is the fastest egress to get to a car and get out of there.

00:11:11.340 Why would you prop open the back door, Randy, if you are this abductor?

00:11:17.580 Well, this is a question that I had.

00:11:19.520 And when we're talking about propping open the back door, was it propped open by three inches?

00:11:24.620 Was it propped open completely all the way?

00:11:27.660 And the other question that I have is that she lives in a very rural area.

00:11:32.780 Some people open their doors in those rural areas in order to get ventilation.

00:11:37.940 Was this something that was normally done?

00:11:40.040 These questions were not asked nor answered.

00:11:42.680 So those are questions that I have.

00:11:46.380 Now, here's also something is I felt very significant.

00:11:50.380 They knew early on from what the interview with Savannah was that there was blood.

00:11:57.840 They understood that the ring doorbell had been ripped off.

00:12:01.740 These are huge clues here.

00:12:05.020 So the question that I have is, and of course, her statement that her mother doesn't go walking around and she didn't leave voluntarily, that indicates a crime.

00:12:17.820 Why was this treated as a search and rescue effort, bringing in teams of search and rescue people to trample the scene and to screw the scene up, and then within days release that scene?

00:12:32.020 These are the questions that I have that relate directly to the competency of the sheriff.

00:12:41.020 What do you make of it, James?

00:12:42.140 Yeah, I was going to echo Randy's sentiment in that she continued to say that the family was really focused on, no, you don't understand.

00:12:49.880 As if they're trying to explain to the police, the police had a narrative.

00:12:53.760 It sounds to me like the police had a narrative that they were saying to her, like, this happens all the time.

00:12:58.980 I'm sure it's nothing.

00:12:59.840 You know, they're trying to minimize it and downplay it.

00:13:02.100 You know, people go missing or walk away all the time.

00:13:04.820 She's old, yada, yada.

00:13:06.360 And they're saying, no, no, no, you don't understand.

00:13:08.380 This isn't like the others.

00:13:09.760 You know, I think that's what she said.

00:13:11.480 And so to me, it sounded like they were trying to impress upon law enforcement to take this more seriously.

00:13:17.000 And they were trying to kind of explain it away like, you know, this happens a lot.

00:13:22.180 The business about, you know, the bad back and on a good day, she could make it to the mailbox.

00:13:26.160 That is interesting.

00:13:27.520 And she said, but most days not.

00:13:29.840 Most days, Nancy could not even make it to the mailbox. 1.00

00:13:33.380 So she was not mobile.

00:13:35.300 Nancy Guthrie was not mobile.

00:13:37.000 And there are more clues that are revealed in the coming soundbites, which I'll get to.

00:13:43.340 Here is, hold on, the one where she describes her belief that she thinks her mother was kidnapped for ransom.

00:13:55.180 This is a tough one.

00:13:56.160 Sot four.

00:13:56.520 my brother you know he spent his career in the military and worked in intelligence

00:14:05.280 and he's a fighter pilot and is brilliant and he saw very clearly right away what this was

00:14:16.540 and even on the phone when i called him he knew he knew and he said i think she's been

00:14:26.200 kidnapped for ransom. And I said, yeah, what? Well, why, what? And then, I mean, it sounds so

00:14:35.660 like how dumb could I be, but I just, I didn't want to believe. I just said, do you think because 0.79

00:14:46.040 of me and he said i'm sorry sweetie but yeah maybe but i knew that you did i hope not

00:15:03.520 i mean we still don't know honestly we don't know anything we don't know anything so i don't know

00:15:13.100 That it's because she's my mom and somebody thought, oh, that girl, that lady has money. 1.00

00:15:26.260 We can make a quick buck.

00:15:28.460 I mean, that would make sense, but we don't know.

00:15:31.640 But, yeah, that's probably, which is too much to bear, to think that I brought this to her bedside, that it's because of me.

00:15:53.320 And I just say, I'm so sorry, Mommy.

00:15:56.140 I'm so sorry.

00:15:57.540 I'm sorry to my sister and my brother and my kids and my nephew and Tommy

00:16:06.580 my brother-in-law just I'm like so sorry I'm so sorry if it is me I'm so sorry

00:16:15.120 oh that is gut-wrenching and I think anyone can understand what that would feel like that

00:16:23.480 whatever your job is, someone got angry with you or someone thought you had money or for whatever

00:16:29.240 reason about you did something horrible to your family member, your mom, or anyone in your family,

00:16:37.140 you, of course, she knows it's not actually her fault, but she feels responsible as I think any

00:16:42.520 human would. But she added to this a couple of things that from an investigative standpoint,

00:16:50.760 I think you guys will find interesting.

00:16:53.400 Like, you know, that was interesting from a human standpoint.

00:16:57.280 And of course, the fact that Savannah,

00:16:59.520 all these weeks later,

00:17:01.480 still believes it was a kidnapping for money

00:17:03.980 due to Savannah's wealth, that does tell us something.

00:17:06.860 I mean, Eric, your thoughts on the fact

00:17:09.200 that she's still holding onto that belief

00:17:10.860 is her primary theory, you know,

00:17:12.860 six, seven weeks into this crime.

00:17:14.840 Yeah, I agree.

00:17:15.880 She certainly believes it's a kidnapping.

00:17:17.660 She's certainly blaming herself.

00:17:19.600 And honestly, it is likely that this was, at least in the beginning, a kidnapping that turned into an abduction.

00:17:26.640 And I honestly believe that even if it started there, you know, you see the blood.

00:17:32.580 Now we know how infirm Nancy Guthrie was, that she may have passed pretty quickly and there was no ability to give a sign of life.

00:17:41.540 Now, she does. I'm not sure if it's in this clip or a later one, but Savannah does raise something else.

00:17:47.880 It's about the ransom notes themselves.

00:17:50.160 She says at one point that they're—

00:17:52.600 Yes, I have that.

00:17:53.160 Let me play it.

00:17:53.820 Oh, yeah, okay.

00:17:54.080 Let me play it, and then you take it on the back end.

00:17:55.700 You got it.

00:17:55.900 Here we are on SOT 6.

00:17:57.520 There are a lot of different notes, I think, that came.

00:18:00.980 And I think most of them, it's my understanding, are not real, and I didn't see them.

00:18:08.620 But, you know, a person that would send a fake ransom note really has to look deeply at themselves to a family in pain.

00:18:24.660 But I believe the two notes that we received, that we responded to, I tend to believe those are real.

00:18:38.620 OK, that was huge. Keep going. Right. So here's where I'm going to agree with what your earlier statement, Megan.

00:18:45.280 There's there's where you need to follow up. Which two notes. Right. So we know. And also, why?

00:18:52.700 Why? That's it. It doesn't take any sort of experience in the journalism biz.

00:18:58.300 Just why? What can you tell us? I know you're limited in what you're going to say, but what can you tell us to explain why you believed two were real?

00:19:07.800 So I don't feel like we know. I don't feel like we know now what notes went where. We know that some went to media. We know that some went to TMZ. Are she talking about the same notes or were there independent ones that went to the family? Because it's never made sense to me that the kidnappers in potentially such a massively high profile case are going to send ransom notes to public media and not send it directly to the family.

00:19:32.320 It's not going to be difficult to find a way to get it to Savannah Guthrie.

00:19:37.000 So so I've never believed that those notes were true.

00:19:41.040 So now I'm questioning, were there notes that we don't know about that did go directly to the family that that haven't been publicized?

00:19:49.020 And that's what Savannah is talking about.

00:19:51.100 And, you know, I wish you had done the interview because I'm sure you would have followed up.

00:19:55.440 These are I mean, truly like who, what, when, where and why are very, very basic journalism steps like it's that is not rocket scientist.

00:20:02.320 science stuff. Like, which notes? The two that went to TMZ and local media? Are those the ones

00:20:09.160 you're talking about, just to be clear for the record? And it wasn't asked. Assuming it was

00:20:14.600 those notes, here's the critical question that needed to have been asked. Then why didn't you

00:20:23.680 pay the ransom? Right. And that's why I don't believe those were the notes. I don't think

00:20:28.940 I believe those were. See, I disagree with you. I think Savannah, as a journalist, would have said

00:20:34.140 there were other notes you don't know about that I'm, you know, whatever. I don't think Savannah

00:20:37.640 would have thrown out there that the two, like so casually, the two, I believe the two were real.

00:20:41.680 I think it was her short form reference to the two that we know about. The first one went to TMZ

00:20:45.620 and two local news outlets. And then the next one only went to the local news outlets. And I think

00:20:51.380 Savannah was short forming. Those are the ones because she said the two we responded to, and

00:20:56.200 those are the ones that we were watching them respond to, at least we believe, on camera when

00:21:01.860 the family did those like sort of hostage videos of their own, like, please, please, please, proof

00:21:05.860 we need to know you have her. But the very obvious question is, then why didn't you pay the ransom?

00:21:13.820 If you thought that this guy really had Nancy, you could have paid reportedly $4 million on the

00:21:20.860 thursday of the demand or six million the monday after that thursday and you didn't as far as we

00:21:29.180 know we certainly have been led to believe they didn't pay it right i mean and that calls into

00:21:33.580 question one other thing uh okay so let's say she believes i you know we're we're debating but let's

00:21:39.340 say she believes those are those notes are real and maybe there was no ability to provide a good

00:21:46.420 sign of life because Nancy Guthrie had expired at that time. But let's say that they did decide

00:21:53.760 to pay. You know, you can track that cryptocurrency as it moves through digital wallets. We talked

00:22:00.560 about this on an earlier episode. You know, that would at least give the FBI an ability to try to

00:22:06.240 find an eventual wallet that they could track and potentially find the kidnappers. So if they

00:22:13.020 believed that those were legitimate kidnapping notes, then paying would have given another

00:22:19.740 investigative tool to the FBI. Yes. Okay. So James, do you want to weigh in on this?

00:22:26.380 Yeah, I really did. Thank you. Let's go back because I think your listeners are probably

00:22:31.200 seeing the, seeing your clip and then they're saying, how does the brother go there that

00:22:35.600 quickly? And it's very important later on, you know, Savannah will talk about her sister's

00:22:41.480 intuitive ability. But this is what's happening here is not only Savannah's intuition, but her

00:22:49.200 brother's intuition is pinging here. So what's happened is their intuition operates at the

00:22:54.540 subconscious level faster than a computer. And they're putting it together very quickly. Why?

00:22:59.440 Because Savannah is a high net worth individual. More than likely, she's had a risk assessment.

00:23:04.300 I know the people over at NBC, I'm sure they've done it. Everyone I ever do with a high net worth

00:23:08.480 person like that a highly popular person like her or you i have an anti-kidnapping thing right we go

00:23:14.920 through kidnapping preparation mitigation and we make sure the family has a plan and we walk like

00:23:20.060 i walk through with the family you know things to do to not be kidnapped because of this kind of

00:23:25.520 overflow from being related to a famous person and they are we need to talk offline james they

00:23:30.920 are pinging on it they're like this is what happened and then that's why she went do you

00:23:34.260 think it's because of me well she knows she's like oh god because she's always lived with that

00:23:37.980 thought that that could happen. I'm sure her kids go through this, her husband goes through it. I'm

00:23:42.140 sure Megan, you go through it all the time, but certainly, you know, she's been prepped and she

00:23:46.540 knows as being in the limelight, kidnapping is a possibility. James, does your prep kit involve

00:23:54.000 a Louisville slugger and your makeup foundation? Because my mother tells me that's what she's got 0.78

00:23:59.740 at her front door. She's ready to go. She's got her bat and she's going to look good.

00:24:04.460 That's a start. That's good. That's called a plan, but certainly I'd like to help her with a little bit more, but that's definitely a good start.

00:24:11.620 Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of us have shorn up the security around our loved ones in the wake of this. I mean, it's a tragedy no matter how you look. And it is a crime. It's obviously a crime. She obviously, I mean, I think anybody who is still wondering whether she wandered off can put that to bed. She did not wander off. She was incapable of the wander.

00:24:31.780 I want to play one other soundbite for you guys to get your investigative input on it because there were more details about the crime scene included in, I think it's here, Sot 3, where she was describing the video, like how the family was able to make those videos and like what they were going through.

00:24:49.300 She drops a couple of details in this soundbite, Sot 3.

00:24:52.560 Let's hear them.

00:24:53.100 And somehow, together, we did our best to come up with the words to say.

00:25:04.760 And I haven't posted one thing or said one thing that the three of us haven't decided together.

00:25:15.360 It is surreal. How is it possible that we are having to make a video speaking to a kidnapper who took an 84-year-old woman in the dead of night, in her pajamas, with no shoes, without her medicine?

00:25:44.120 this little person

00:25:46.100 and to beg for mercy.

00:25:52.260 Again, I'm sorry, but the active listening,

00:25:54.860 the active empathy by Hoda Kotb

00:25:56.600 injecting herself into the moment

00:25:58.800 is just so distracting and unprofessional.

00:26:01.820 Randy, my question for you is

00:26:03.440 there you hear her say,

00:26:05.380 we heard Savannah once before say, 0.97

00:26:08.360 taken from her bed in the middle of the night.

00:26:10.840 Now here she repeats the dead of night

00:26:13.180 and she adds in her pajamas

00:26:15.580 with no shoes without her medicine. 0.95

00:26:18.980 So those are details we did not know.

00:26:20.960 We actually did not know that Nancy was in her pajamas

00:26:23.020 and we did not know that she wasn't wearing shoes.

00:26:26.700 Like she seemed to me to be telegraphing

00:26:29.200 the shoes and slippers that Nancy wears

00:26:31.740 are all still there.

00:26:33.120 Not just like she would have been in her bed asleep

00:26:36.100 and therefore wouldn't have had shoes on.

00:26:37.740 She seemed to be saying who would take an old lady 0.99

00:26:39.520 in her pajamas without any shoes and no meds.

00:26:41.520 And my note to myself here reads, it does not sound like this person planned on keeping her

00:26:48.240 around for long. Your thoughts on it? Yeah. So when we're talking about this portion of this

00:26:55.600 interview, this did give us a little more information. And remember that there was DNA

00:27:02.020 found at the scene. And my question is, what was the condition of the bedroom? Did it show

00:27:11.280 signs of struggle? Was the DNA found on the bed? I hate to be the bearer of, we've already got

00:27:22.580 terrible news. Unfortunately, if we're going to be realistic here, there is a strong possibility

00:27:29.000 that there was a sexual assault involved in this. This is not an uncommon occurrence

00:27:35.940 that situations like this occur.

00:27:39.700 When we talk about the DNA,

00:27:41.400 there was a combined DNA found.

00:27:44.420 It's really imperative to know

00:27:46.280 where was that DNA found?

00:27:48.280 Was it something that was discovered on the bed?

00:27:51.980 She's now talking very cryptically

00:27:56.140 about what she was wearing at the time.

00:27:59.740 These are serious clues here.

00:28:03.220 But once again, we don't have we don't have the answers. We don't we weren't given the information. But this is critical information to the investigation.

00:28:13.800 there's so much i want to go through on that on that answer and on savannah's answer of

00:28:19.940 referencing the pajamas and no shoes and without the meds um let me just stay on that for one

00:28:25.260 second because i do think that like there's a whole new reason to question whether this

00:28:31.080 this could have been a breaker and enterer i feel like it it may be ruled out um but i'll get to

00:28:38.000 that in one second can we just stick james with the now she's adding it was the dead of night

00:28:42.680 Nancy was in her pajamas. She did not have her shoes when she was taken. She did not have her

00:28:47.700 medication. And so that coupled with Savannah's belief that this was a kidnapping for ransom.

00:28:55.160 Like, does that jive like those two data sets? Yeah, I think they do. The thing I was kind of

00:29:02.180 wanting to hear was where did the blood begin? And I don't know if she's intentionally being cryptic

00:29:08.320 and not saying that there was blood in that bedroom because, you know,

00:29:12.960 all I've heard is that the blood is on the porch and in the driveway.

00:29:16.260 But where did that start?

00:29:18.300 The inference is what he hit her on the porch.

00:29:22.860 If she had, I just was kind of wanting to hear some more details.

00:29:28.340 And, again, she may not.

00:29:30.460 I think if she'd seen that or her sister had seen that, they would have told her,

00:29:34.520 And that would have obviously helped, you know, the immediate thought that they were going through.

00:29:40.360 This is not what happened.

00:29:41.580 She did not walk away.

00:29:43.000 You know, there's stuff, there's something going on.

00:29:44.800 But there was no mention of any blood in the bedroom, which is still very, it's curious to me.

00:29:51.320 Where did this injury happen?

00:29:52.720 Right, and we don't know.

00:29:54.100 There could have been.

00:29:55.480 Right.

00:29:56.040 And we just don't know.

00:29:57.500 No one so far has reported that there was.

00:30:00.080 And this is Ashley Banfield's latest reporting.

00:30:02.780 She'd been reporting all along from her source,

00:30:05.080 the one that everybody likes to crap on, 0.69

00:30:07.300 but this guy early on told her,

00:30:08.940 and a senior law enforcement source she said she had,

00:30:11.440 who's familiar with the details of the case,

00:30:13.580 that's the one who said that they were,

00:30:16.000 that the prime suspect may be Tomas or Tommy,

00:30:19.660 Annie Guthrie's husband, early on the case.

00:30:22.760 And that same week, we saw them tow away Annie

00:30:26.020 in Tomas' car, and then later we saw them

00:30:29.240 inside of their home at 10 o'clock at night

00:30:31.820 When it was dark, they turned off all the lights inside the home and started taking pictures.

00:30:36.340 In any event, since then, we've been told, at least, our own Chad Ayers reported, he cited a rock-solid source, he has boots on the ground there, that the family's all been given polygraphs and, quote, passed with flying colors.

00:30:49.480 Okay, so that's where we stand.

00:30:50.420 But the same source that has become so controversial in Ashley Banfield's reporting, every other thing he said has panned out.

00:30:58.440 He said the back door was found open and it was.

00:31:02.140 Now we hear Savannah say it herself.

00:31:04.260 He said that the ring cameras were destroyed and we know that they're missing and that there was glass found on the front porch, at least.

00:31:12.540 And there's a little glass bulb on the front of a Nest camera now.

00:31:15.360 And he was the one who said they're Nest cameras, not ring cameras.

00:31:18.180 He was right about that, too.

00:31:19.340 um and so it's just like her her source seems like he knew what he was talking about but

00:31:25.820 everybody wants to dismiss that one piece about like this brother-in-law quote may be the prime

00:31:30.480 suspect at least as of that time so ashley has updated her reporting because the other thing he

00:31:35.800 told her was that there the blood drops we saw on the front porch continued inside the house

00:31:41.360 someplace that there were also blood droplets that looked the same inside the house but she

00:31:46.500 she did not have where i think most of us assumed that it would be right on the opposite side of

00:31:53.200 that front door since they were on you know outside in the front stoop and it turns out

00:31:58.180 that's correct but here's ashley in her own words in her own reporting on tuesday sat 16

00:32:02.100 we were told there was blood in the house but i could never find out where where did those

00:32:08.500 investigators see it so that they knew there was something so dire that they had to bring

00:32:12.420 homicide investigators. And now I know. Now I know where the blood is inside the house.

00:32:18.640 And it is a fascinating piece of data because it is right in the front entrance of the home.

00:32:27.220 Front entrance, front hallway, whatever you want to call that front entrance. But the blood now

00:32:31.700 in the front entrance of the home is a significant detail about this crime.

00:32:38.620 just in the front entrance not in the bedroom not in the kitchen not in the living room

00:32:46.800 not in that family room the front entrance has a pattern of blood that is the same

00:32:53.700 as it is outside and it goes over the threshold out the door okay so correcting myself she does

00:33:01.500 report no blood found in the bedroom and actually she doubles down on that here in sat 17 take a

00:33:07.100 listen. And a common mistake a lot of investigators make is they hyper focus on the place where they

00:33:13.880 first see the blood and they think this is where the attack occurred. And that is almost, I wouldn't

00:33:20.240 say it almost always incorrect. Finding the blood in one room doesn't mean that that's the room where

00:33:25.460 the, you know, the attack occurred or the incident occurred. You have to go back and you need to look

00:33:29.940 for other potential items or artifacts to give you indications of what might have happened.

00:33:37.100 or that's her guest, who is a bloodstain expert, Dr. Peter Valentin. So look, we now know there

00:33:46.100 was blood that continued inside as you open the door right there, and that Ashley's reporting

00:33:51.820 there was no blood inside the bedroom. But there's an additional sound bite I got to run for you

00:33:56.700 guys, because she does make a reference to how Nancy was taken. And it's when Hoda asks her

00:34:06.860 about seeing the masked man on the front porch, trying to see which soundbite this is on my list.

00:34:15.560 Is it five? Yes, it is. It's not five. Let's go. I mean, it's just absolutely terrifying.

00:34:21.360 yeah it's just totally terrifying

00:34:25.800 and i can't imagine that that

00:34:32.960 is who she saw standing over her bed

00:34:37.100 yeah right there i can't that's too much yeah

00:34:43.700 and i'm glad and grateful to the investigators and the technology companies that were able to

00:34:55.020 find that video do i hope at least with people of good heart and compassion stop

00:35:05.380 the irresponsible and cruel speculation that had started to swirl

00:35:15.800 let's talk about that for a minute i'm glad that people saw yeah what came to our door

00:35:27.320 and we'll get to that second piece of it in a minute but

00:35:30.000 you heard the detail, right? Standing over her bed. That's a new detail. We heard from her bed,

00:35:38.300 now we hear standing over her bed. And that's why, James, I feel like,

00:35:43.940 in my view, this was not a breaking and entering where, like, she just ruled out

00:35:52.680 that Nancy Guthrie stumbled upon a burglar who was there to steal and got in the crosshairs of

00:36:01.860 this guy and then got taken. If what she just said there is known, then that's not true. And as you

00:36:08.320 know, a burglar who's going into somebody's home in the middle of the night at 1.47 a.m.

00:36:14.420 is not like, I'm definitely going to check the bedroom where the homeowner might be sleeping

00:36:20.980 right now, right? It's like, I mean, maybe they would, maybe I'm wrong, but she seems to be

00:36:26.780 saying that the mother was taken from the bed. The guy was standing over poor Nancy and then

00:36:32.680 dragged her out of there. No purse, no phone, no meds, no shoes in the pajamas that she was wearing.

00:36:39.300 To me, that does not sound like a breaker and an enterer. It sounds like someone who was there to

00:36:44.080 get Nancy. Yeah. And I think kind of what Randy was saying, but this sounds much more nefarious

00:36:51.160 and I'd love to know how she, you know, does she know that? Did someone tell her, hey, we have

00:36:56.660 evidence of footprints or something that he was standing over your mother before he did whatever

00:37:01.220 he did? Or is she saying that? Maybe there is something on the bedsheets. What's that?

00:37:06.740 Maybe there is something on the bedsheets. Like maybe there is something there that leads them

00:37:12.800 to believe that's where it all began.

00:37:13.940 Yeah, I think a couple of weeks ago,

00:37:14.720 she said taken from her bed

00:37:16.120 and you and I keyed on that, Megan.

00:37:17.800 And now she's saying standing over her,

00:37:20.080 like watching her, you know, with that mask.

00:37:23.040 And so now that's, okay,

00:37:24.440 are you getting that from some investigator?

00:37:26.820 Or is this something that you just believe,

00:37:29.200 you know, like as a story

00:37:30.400 that you're saying to yourself,

00:37:32.000 like, okay, this is probably

00:37:32.940 what she was going through.

00:37:34.760 Because if it's the former

00:37:36.540 that some investigator is telling her,

00:37:38.500 yeah, he's standing over her

00:37:39.760 like a predator and prey.

00:37:41.740 Okay, that's a whole different thing than Savannah is just, you know, thinking the worst and going, God, my mom went through this. 1.00

00:37:49.280 And it was tragic to watch.

00:37:52.340 And it does suggest to me, Eric, that when she said taken from her bed a couple of weeks ago, it was not an accident.

00:38:00.260 That is what they believe because here she doubles down saying standing over her in the bed, which may just be a figure of speech.

00:38:07.540 You know, she's just sort of picturing how this went down.

00:38:10.100 But either way, she's twice now said Nancy was taken from her bed. And therefore, I believe that's what she believes. And therefore, I believe that's what investigators believe. And therefore, the theory that Nancy may have been wandering around and bumped into a burglar is out.

00:38:25.280 Right.

00:38:25.700 Right. You know, if we trust what the sheriff believes, yes, taken from her bed. So that does

00:38:32.940 suggest that she's heard that from investigators that it began there in the room. It disabuses the

00:38:38.500 notion. There were some theories early on that maybe he rang the doorbell and she came down to

00:38:43.760 the door. Now with the door, the back door propped open and the whole taken from the bed. And, you

00:38:50.340 You know, the other thing that, you know, I think that Savannah wants to do is impress upon anyone listening the horror of the situation, not just for the family, but but painting that picture that this person went into her mother's house, that her mother is a frail, small person, elderly, that he stood over her bed lurking there.

00:39:11.100 I mean, that sinister image might stick in people's minds, and she may be hoping that someone feels that horror, feels that pain, and decides to do the right thing and give a really good tip or clue that leads the investigators to some fruitful point in the investigation.

00:39:32.360 Randy, what do you make of it that the standing over her in her bed? I mean, we're getting an

00:39:39.360 image now of how this thing went down. We have the pictures of the man on the porch. We know

00:39:44.060 there was some sort of, if not a struggle, something led Nancy Guthrie to start bleeding 1.00

00:39:49.620 at some point once he got her. And we know that the original contact between the two of them

00:39:57.060 appears to have been with Nancy asleep in her bed and the perpetrator coming over her

00:40:01.220 and getting her out of there, no shoes, no change of clothes, no meds, no purse, no phone,

00:40:06.740 no anything. So as you listen to that sequence of events, what does it say to you?

00:40:13.960 I think we can completely eliminate the random burglar type of scenario here that was thrown

00:40:22.440 out by a number of people. Impossible. If you look at the statistical analysis of crimes in

00:40:29.420 that area, you will find that there has not been a nighttime hot prowl burglary in that area in

00:40:36.640 years. The burglaries that have taken place that have been reported have been mostly daytime

00:40:42.080 burglaries. A burglar that- Now standing, all those tapes we saw, Randy, of random

00:40:48.500 people looking in people's windows and so on? Yeah, the reality is that when you look at the

00:40:54.740 statistics, the real crime statistics, there hasn't been a nighttime hot prowl burglary

00:41:00.580 intrusion into a house in that area in recent memory. It just doesn't happen, especially in

00:41:08.720 that area. Because remember, most of these homes are alarmed. They have surveillance equipment,

00:41:14.620 and it's not something that is normally a burglar. Most burglars, if they want property,

00:41:22.340 They don't want to have a confrontation.

00:41:24.920 Are people going to be home during the day or are they going to be at night?

00:41:27.440 Right.

00:41:27.880 So it's just nonsense to even think that this was a random burglar that happened to, you know, then panic and take her.

00:41:36.520 Impossible.

00:41:37.520 This was planned.

00:41:39.100 I fully believe that there was definitely more than one person involved.

00:41:42.600 I believe there was a driver involved as well.

00:41:44.920 What we have not heard, and this is from a source that I have, is that that blood trail continued, continued from all the way into the driveway.

00:41:56.360 That indicates to me that that individual who committed this took Mrs. Guthrie, probably by carrying her, through the home where the blood splatter was.

00:42:09.900 There was a trail that went out into the driveway where they loaded her into a car and they took her.

00:42:19.140 That's the that's the most I've ever heard anyone say on how far out the blood trail went.

00:42:24.320 We heard from Brian Enten, who got that video.

00:42:26.760 We keep showing that it was on the front stoop, the red brick area.

00:42:31.160 Then Fox News showed us additional video of blood droplets on the gray, more gravelly looking path that we're showing here.

00:42:39.660 You can see, thanks to Fox, video of that, but no one has ever said it did, in fact, continue from there over to the driveway, suggesting, I mean, I think we assumed that she didn't just vanish into thin air at that point, but, like, no one's ever actually said that.

00:42:55.780 You're the first person to actually say that that I know of.

00:42:58.600 Yeah, I developed that information not long ago from a source.

00:43:03.880 So there's no doubt in your mind that she was put into a car?

00:43:06.900 Absolutely no doubt in my mind she was put into a car.

00:43:09.140 And of course, then that is a huge investigative lead that they have been clearly trying to follow up on in requesting doorbell video, surveillance video from convenience stores, from any entrances and egresses from that neighborhood.

00:43:28.380 that's why it was so essential that they try and get as much footage as possible from any

00:43:34.580 surveillance cameras in that entire area. Because this didn't happen in a vacuum, you know, the car

00:43:42.180 didn't, you know, suddenly appear. It was there. It had to go through the neighborhood. It had to

00:43:48.860 be there. It had to come in from one of the directions. So, you know, here's something

00:43:55.440 that also has not been really spoken about, and that is the cell phone information from any of

00:44:06.700 the cell phone towers. You haven't heard a drop about that. And that is very, very curious because

00:44:14.720 that tells me that this was planned to the nth degree that they didn't have cell phones.

00:44:22.120 and that right in and of itself the guy was clever this is eric's area of expertise but

00:44:30.060 the guy was before i go to you eric i want to stay with you on this randy before we get to the

00:44:34.660 cell phone thing the back door being propped open propped open that's different from open it's like

00:44:42.620 open you just whatever you opened it you walked in you kind of forgot about it and then you brought

00:44:48.260 are out the front door. I think that's what we've been thinking. But if you propped it open, like

00:44:52.240 to leave it open, you know, the way you would, if you had someone coming in behind you in a few

00:44:58.280 minutes, maybe, or you were carrying something heavy, you needed to get through the door. I don't

00:45:03.200 like that to me, Randy does potentially support another person being there that you would prop it.

00:45:11.820 I don't know. Some people, a lot of people have like an umbrella stand next to their door or,

00:45:15.160 you know, a small little couch for people to sit down and put on their shoes, or some of those

00:45:20.020 doors have one of those little sliders that you can put on that will keep the door open.

00:45:24.720 But you tell me why a guy there to potentially kidnap Nancy would prop the back door open.

00:45:35.520 Well, that's why I'm trying to think out loud, like an accomplice to bring something more into

00:45:41.320 the home or potentially out of the home he thought he was going to maybe steal a lot and he wanted to

00:45:46.000 like not have to deal with the door um or maybe he thought he was going to bring nancy out the back

00:45:52.860 and the plan changed go ahead well this is why my question uh originally that we we we we talked

00:46:00.600 about is does did mrs guthrie leave the prop the door open on a on a routine basis like i said for

00:46:08.580 ventilation. The other possibility is we know that there was more than one individual involved.

00:46:13.900 When you're talking about carrying a person out, it's not easy to do by yourself. It's going to be

00:46:21.600 a whole lot more efficient if you have more than one person doing that. And that would indicate

00:46:29.960 you know, uh, the, you know, keeping the door open for an accomplice.

00:46:36.640 Eric, go ahead. Because the cell phone situation, and now we're talking like, if there's, if there's

00:46:42.000 more than one person, and by the way, a retired Pima County homicide detective named Kurt Dabb

00:46:47.180 gave an interview to Parade Magazine. And he said he believes there may be two to four

00:46:53.440 accomplices on this crime, saying the logistics of something this, of this magnitude is much too

00:46:58.820 much for one person to handle, in my professional opinion, based on the facts as I know them right

00:47:02.760 now. So then that would mean no one brought their cell phone. Right. So I'm I'm agree with Randy

00:47:09.300 there. There are certainly there. There have to be multiple people. You're not just going to have

00:47:13.540 one person go in and then abduct her and then bring her out. You know, where is the car? You're

00:47:19.500 not going to want to leave the car while you go into the house. There had to at least be someone

00:47:22.880 in the car. And if you remember from some of our earlier interviews, you know, that blood pattern

00:47:27.480 out along the walkway there was in sort of a straight line, which would suggest, I think I

00:47:31.920 said earlier, that she might have been carried and it's dripping down behind. You know, one thing

00:47:37.900 about the, before I get to the cell phone, before that back door being propped, you know, what's

00:47:42.660 sort of stuck in my mind is you're going into a house and whether it's an abduction or what,

00:47:47.540 but let's say it's a kidnapping, you know, maybe he propped the door because he didn't know what

00:47:52.200 he was going to find. And he was thinking, I got to get out. If I have to get out quickly,

00:47:56.180 I don't want to be fumbling with a door. As for the cell phones, yes, you can ping cell phones.

00:48:02.240 What the FBI and law enforcement can do is go to the cell phone provider and get the data for any

00:48:08.280 cell phones that ping those towers. You can get a approximate location. So what they could do is

00:48:14.480 check all of the cell phones that were hitting the area around that time and then try to.

00:48:19.960 Wait, but Eric, can't they do the geofencing where it's like they don't have to go through all that?

00:48:23.680 They say they have technology to say, show us which phones were in Nancy Guthrie's area home and around her property, approximate area.

00:48:33.160 So all they need to do is take the time and then they can have every every phone that pinged around those towers.

00:48:38.480 It's not completely approximate, but it's close enough. Right.

00:48:41.880 To say this person doesn't live here and was there at that time of night.

00:48:45.920 And clearly they don't have that data, which would suggest that these the criminals didn't bring their phones, which is the smart thing to do.

00:48:53.020 but what you know stands out for me is they would have had to be there at some point earlier to case

00:48:59.500 the area that's a very complex uh warren of streets so if they're going to get to that

00:49:04.600 property they would have had to be there earlier casing and i think that's one of the reasons they

00:49:08.740 really wanted those uh doorbell cams and ring cams and any surveillance cams from property because

00:49:14.320 if they came through during the day just to drive through to see okay here's how we get to the house

00:49:19.500 here's how we get out. Maybe something got caught. And if you also remember, they were going back

00:49:24.820 later and getting on ladders and actually pulling physical cards out of those cameras just to see

00:49:32.280 if there was anything that the people didn't report. Yeah. And it does make you reminds me

00:49:39.320 that now they're making clear they're interested also in January 11th on the request for people to

00:49:44.700 pull tapes. Savannah mentioned that to a local news outlet in a statement recently, maybe because

00:49:49.300 maybe the guy forgot to leave the phone at home every time. All right, Eric has to go,

00:49:53.580 but James and Randy stay with me. There's much, much more to get to. Don't go away.

00:49:56.300 Thank you.

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00:51:07.040 actually listens. James Hamilton and Randy Sutton are back with me now,

00:51:16.200 And also joining me is Pat Brosnan, my old pal from Fox News, retired NYPD detective and host of Pat Brosnan, live from the Batcave.

00:51:26.820 Pat, so great to have you. Thanks for joining us.

00:51:28.520 Megan, it's a trip down memory lane. It's great to be on it. Thank you.

00:51:32.880 Totally. It's great to see you.

00:51:34.660 Let me start by getting your perspective on the latest, these revelations that Savannah believes this was a kidnapping for ransom.

00:51:41.720 She reveals, doubles down on an earlier statement that her mother was taken from her bed in the dark of night.

00:51:47.520 Here she says that this man could have just been a turn of phrase, but says was over her mother in the bed, you know, snatching her in the middle of the night, that she was taken without her shoes, that she was taken while in her pajamas.

00:52:00.420 And reiterating some details we did know, like didn't have her purse, didn't have her phone and didn't have her meds.

00:52:06.040 All of those are interesting investigatively and also adding detail about how the back door of the house was, quote, propped open, we believe by the perpetrator, though don't know that for sure, coupled with Ashley Bamfield's reporting that there was a blood trail that continued into the front foyer area of the home, but not beyond, and that her reporting is there was no blood found in the bedroom.

00:52:30.120 So your thoughts on where that leaves us in your theory?

00:52:31.900 Well, first of all, I've been a detective for over 40 years, both in public service and private with the NYPD, and I was a robbery detective.

00:52:42.120 And I will tell you, as I sit here today, 53 long days later, I still do not know exactly what crime occurred.

00:52:51.200 I don't know. I don't know.

00:52:52.680 And that's based on publicly available material facts, interviews with various folks who have specific details, knowledge, data, intel.

00:53:01.900 Still don't know. I don't know. Is it a burglary gone bad? Is it a robbery gone bad?

00:53:06.920 A home invasion gone bad, which is an elevated robbery with force?

00:53:11.640 Is it an assault gone bad or is it a violent abduction?

00:53:15.560 And every time I deconstruct and reconstruct this case, and I do, Megan, painstakingly, come to a wall.

00:53:24.860 Because to support the violent abduction theory or construct requires three things.

00:53:31.900 It requires a cogent proof of life, a transaction path, a pathway to make the transaction, as well as a cogent demand.

00:53:44.140 And not any time, whenever I've reconstructed and analyzed this case, do any of them support that theory.

00:53:51.980 Every time it falls apart.

00:53:53.440 Unless this is the rarest of all the rare violent abductions, and they thankfully are very rare, a not-for-profit transaction, a not-for-profit, I still don't know what it is because where's the request for the money?

00:54:07.580 And this is 53 days later.

00:54:10.300 Well, she's saying she believes those two, quote, ransom notes that TMZ and the other locals got are real.

00:54:17.580 That seems to be what she's saying.

00:54:19.040 Some clarifying journalism would have been appreciated, but that seems to be what she is saying.

00:54:23.440 that she believed those first two, which means this Harvey Levin announcement when he got the one

00:54:30.400 was, if she's right, an actual communication from an actual kidnapper who did have Nancy.

00:54:37.980 A throwback here in SOT 37.

00:54:41.060 So we got something in our email that looks like a, it's written like a ransom note for

00:54:49.680 Savannah Guthrie's mother.

00:54:50.920 Specific requests for certain amounts of money.

00:54:53.440 very specific. And also, they say at the bottom, there are certain things they're saying

00:54:58.400 about what she was wearing and damage to the house.

00:55:02.440 That they're clearly saying to verify that we know what we're talking about here.

00:55:07.040 So we've contacted the sheriff's department, and we want to get them this letter.

00:55:15.220 And we had a little trouble getting through to the right person, but the person we spoke with

00:55:19.980 is now forwarding this to somebody in the detective bureau again we don't know we don't

00:55:26.420 know if it's authentic or not but they're when you read it they're acting as if yeah only we

00:55:34.980 would know these things and we're serious and there's a dollar demand and an or else in there

00:55:41.320 okay and we would later find out that the dollar demand related to being paid in bitcoin it was

00:55:49.280 reportedly $4 million if they paid by that Thursday, $6 million if they wait until the

00:55:54.300 follow-up Monday. And the family then came to the cameras and started begging for a negotiation.

00:56:02.120 You know, the first we had Savannah Guthrie with the talk to her and you'll see, you know, which

00:56:08.760 were sort of eerie lines because that was exactly what a character in Silence of the Lambs said.

00:56:14.620 And then she did reference the potential ransom note in that very first video Savannah did.

00:56:21.120 Here is SOT 28.

00:56:22.980 We, too, have heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media.

00:56:28.160 As a family, we are doing everything that we can.

00:56:34.120 We are ready to talk.

00:56:35.920 however we live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated

00:56:45.780 we need to know without a doubt that she is alive and that you have her

00:56:55.300 we want to hear from you and we are ready to listen please reach out to us

00:57:04.220 so that was after the ransom note had dropped with tmz and by the way so that was wednesday

00:57:10.320 after the sunday that she was discovered missing so this is just days after it was wednesday then

00:57:14.940 on thursday they dropped another one uh february 5th with the brother cameron guthrie alone you

00:57:20.960 remember that and then by saturday night now we've now we've missed the thursday deadline

00:57:24.700 by saturday night um they dropped another one that sounded more almost reconciled to the fact

00:57:32.160 that Nancy might no longer be with us. Here's part of that. Stop 31. We received your message

00:57:40.040 and we understand. We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her.

00:57:49.640 This is the only way we will have peace. This is very valuable to us and we will pay.

00:57:56.820 we will pay but they didn't pay as far as we know guys like everyone was monitoring the bitcoin

00:58:06.240 account that you know fortunately or unfortunately the media had the numbers on harvey had the

00:58:11.620 numbers on and the local uh news had the numbers on and harvey was able to see whether deposits had

00:58:17.380 been made and he he reported that they had not been so it did not there's no reason to believe

00:58:22.380 they paid the ransom, which I just don't understand other than, you know, James, they never got proof

00:58:27.800 of life. So even though they believed the ransom notes were legit, I guess they just weren't going

00:58:34.520 to pay it because they thought they're not going to return her or tell us where she is. They didn't

00:58:39.520 trust that they had a good faith bargainer on the other side. Yeah, I'm having real difficulty

00:58:45.000 again with the thought that this individual took her and then he wanted to use TMZ as a go-between

00:58:51.480 to get his money, as if TMZ is, you know, the current Jerry Richardson of the negotiation of

00:58:58.040 all things. And that's just crazy. I don't know that TMZ has ever negotiated the safe return of

00:59:04.640 another individual. So why would they go through that? It doesn't stand, it doesn't make any sense.

00:59:09.900 Well, the theory was that he, the kidnapper would have gone, that the three entities he chose

00:59:15.020 all had, like, tip lines.

00:59:18.580 Like, they didn't send an email.

00:59:20.300 They went, like, if you go to TMZ and you have a news tip,

00:59:23.540 you know, like, Justin Timberlake just got arrested for DWI,

00:59:26.860 you can type that in on their website on a page

00:59:29.760 without really, you know, I guess, any identifying information.

00:59:34.260 But it would seem to me that the FBI can always find identifying information

00:59:38.060 about where, from where you typed that page.

00:59:41.500 But maybe not, because here we are, seven weeks in,

00:59:43.720 They never arrested that person.

00:59:45.520 And, you know, again, we don't know that the FBI is in lockstep with the Pima County Sheriff's Office in this investigation.

00:59:51.840 We don't know that at all.

00:59:52.960 We have it seems to be a disparate investigation being done by two different agencies.

00:59:57.860 But, you know, even if, you know, this interview, this clip you're showing of her and the family talking directly, if it's done correctly, you know, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it.

01:00:10.160 But there's certainly going to be some coaching in the background by, you know, a negotiator from the Bureau who explains to them what to say and how to say it.

01:00:19.120 It's extremely rare that they would let a family just, you know, independently, you know, negotiate or communicate with the person.

01:00:28.700 They just don't work.

01:00:29.920 They don't work it that way.

01:00:31.220 And again, no proof of life.

01:00:32.800 So why am I sending you money?

01:00:33.920 You know, and I think she even alluded to that.

01:00:36.240 There are a lot of people with bad souls that take advantage, and that's certainly what I still believe that theory is, is that the people doing that, they picked up some information they saw in a video I think you showed of Nancy's home from years ago.

01:00:53.100 They would have had enough information to make it seem as though they had inside information and they wanted to make a quick buck.

01:01:00.440 But why didn't they?

01:01:03.680 That's right.

01:01:04.280 Isn't that one of the big questions?

01:01:05.540 Like, what do you think, Randy?

01:01:06.840 What, if they had her, even if she had died,

01:01:11.220 there's a way of sending proof you have her.

01:01:14.860 A lock of hair, you know, something,

01:01:18.400 something really specific you saw inside the house

01:01:21.560 that would convince them you had her.

01:01:24.940 I mean, even what Savannah's saying in the videos,

01:01:27.080 the hostage videos is like, we need to know you have her.

01:01:31.100 They don't specifically say proof of life.

01:01:33.440 And even the reward that she eventually posted for a million dollars is for information leading to either, you know, Nancy, like, alive or her remains, or leading to the arrest of this suspect.

01:01:48.600 Yeah, exactly.

01:01:49.560 And I personally, when I look at these, the methodology utilized in reaching out to the family, it really doesn't make a lot of sense.

01:02:01.880 Now, we do know that there were, remember, she alluded to numerous ransom demands.

01:02:10.040 The two that she took seriously were these two.

01:02:12.480 But remember, there was an arrest made on another ransom demand that they were able to track.

01:02:19.820 That was texted directly to, I think, Thomas, Tommy, the brother-in-law.

01:02:24.880 And I'm curious as to the others that they received.

01:02:28.100 Remember, there's a bunch of nutcases out there that are going to jump into this. 1.00

01:02:30.960 that confuse the issue.

01:02:32.840 And of course, that takes resources away from the agency,

01:02:35.540 whether it's the FBI or Pima County.

01:02:38.820 But let's look at what has actually resulted.

01:02:44.580 Nothing.

01:02:45.820 There's been no proof of life.

01:02:47.820 If that was a reality, if these people truly had her,

01:02:52.360 that would have been an easy thing to provide.

01:02:55.340 And they didn't do it.

01:02:56.460 So I'm not a believer that this was a ransom,

01:02:59.140 that this is a legitimate ransom demand.

01:03:01.860 I am a little curious as to how they have not been able to track

01:03:05.360 that, those ransom demands.

01:03:09.060 And of course, you know, Pat said something, you know,

01:03:12.460 that maybe this is a disparate investigation

01:03:15.840 because we do know that the FBI and Pima County

01:03:20.620 have not been in lockstep.

01:03:23.040 In fact, you haven't even, the FBI have never seen them

01:03:26.340 so absent from the news

01:03:31.220 when it comes down to a high-profile case like this.

01:03:34.900 That tells me-

01:03:35.620 Yeah, that's true.

01:03:36.500 That tells me that they aren't getting involved

01:03:39.200 because of the animosity between that sheriff.

01:03:46.080 I'm using that.

01:03:46.800 I'm even using that word loosely.

01:03:48.360 The sheriff there and the FBI.

01:03:50.760 Things have gone from bad to worse for the sheriff.

01:03:53.580 Now his, you look like you want to get on that, Pat. 0.99

01:03:57.880 Beyond useless. 0.99

01:03:58.940 I'll be honest, and it kills me. 0.97

01:04:00.780 No one loves law enforcement more than me.

01:04:03.140 This guy was not up to the task from minute one.

01:04:06.600 He made every mistake conceivable from the onset.

01:04:09.880 I won't get into the details of it, but he's surrounded by folks, I'm certain, men and

01:04:14.680 women who are very committed to protect and serve, who are fantastically loyal to the

01:04:20.540 investigation.

01:04:21.120 But there is a sad reality and it's a supreme irony, Megan. And I know Randy and James know this as well. You live in an affluent area like the Catalina Foothills. The officers who were sworn to protect and serve you in that area, by virtue of the fact that there are no real crimes, certainly no crimes of this level of violence, they have no historical perspective. They've never done it before.

01:04:48.160 They've never done it before. I've spoken to. It's not like getting a Pat Brosnan assigned to

01:04:52.600 your case or a James Hamilton or Randy Sutton or a John Doe who's been in the Bronx or in Harlem

01:04:58.340 or in East Brooklyn and has done 100 of them or 500 of them. And that just comes down to legacy

01:05:04.620 experience and expertise. And it is a supreme irony. It really is. The safest neighborhoods

01:05:09.660 have the officers with the least experience and no one wants to articulate it. But I will

01:05:14.940 articulate it because I still think they're amazing, amazing folks, but they just haven't

01:05:19.440 done it because they're in an area that's affluent and relatively crime-free. Say it.

01:05:25.140 I have some insight into this particular subject. So by perspective, Tucson lies within Pima County

01:05:37.180 and Tucson is a is a very violent city they investigate about 55 murders per year so they

01:05:45.500 have a very experienced homicide bureau um in contrast Pima County has about five homicides

01:05:52.000 per year and the sheriff in his incident um fired or didn't fire but reassigned the most of the

01:06:01.940 homicide unit who had investigative experience. He put them back in various assignments as a

01:06:08.160 punishment to them. So in actuality, the homicide detectives are very, very inexperienced. One of

01:06:15.500 them, from my understanding, has never investigated a homicide. And that's not saying anything

01:06:21.760 detrimental about them. But it's as Pat said, especially homicide work, this is a learned

01:06:28.040 skill this is something that takes years to get expertise in homicide work and and that's why

01:06:35.700 homicide detectives when they when they're involved they stay for 20 years because that

01:06:41.780 that experience is you cannot you you you can there's no other other um avenue or being no

01:06:50.520 there's you can't short form it exactly i'm thinking when as you're speaking about brian 0.96

01:06:54.800 Kohlberger, who was getting his PhD in criminology, who made so many stupid amateurish mistakes 0.98

01:07:04.060 because you can't just study it. You actually have to be on the job learning how to, in his 0.87

01:07:11.260 case, commit crime, but in your cases, solve crime. And the sheriff's taking, I have yet to

01:07:16.700 find somebody, literally, I've been looking to say, this is not fair. The sheriff is a great

01:07:22.340 investigator and a really good guy. Instead, no matter who you ask, they hate him. There was just

01:07:29.460 a no confidence vote by the entire police union. Every single guy in it and gal voted. We do not

01:07:35.160 have confidence in him. We don't want him. The county supervisor came out and gave an interview

01:07:40.700 to Brian's and saying, no, can't stand him. In fact, I'll play some of that. He's like he's

01:07:45.760 talking about his beginnings back in 1980 from El Paso, where it turns out he did some allegedly

01:07:52.160 unethical things. And this is what Pima County Supervisor Dr. Matt Heintz said to Brian Enten

01:07:57.120 in SOT-19. So it was eight suspensions in a little over five years. And it is kind of unusual

01:08:03.820 to have any suspension for most of our officers. So to have eight in five years, this is a really

01:08:12.260 troubling record. He was, frankly, a bad cop. Yeah, lots of dereliction of duty, tardiness,

01:08:17.320 unnecessary force and discourtesy whatever that okay uh where is it excessive force that one

01:08:23.960 wasn't sustained habitual attorneys excessive force again 15 days and then eventually the next

01:08:29.520 page uh for july of 82 insubordination and consistent inefficiency which is like kind of

01:08:37.680 one of my new favorite phrases uh he was forced to resign in lieu of termination

01:08:42.140 The entire four decade history of his presence here in southern Arizona has been based on fraud.

01:08:49.580 It is clear to me that he is not capable or competent to to lead in this office.

01:08:54.900 He is more than tarnished. And I don't I that's not specific to any investigation.

01:09:01.100 The most recent high profile one certainly has been shining light on on things.

01:09:07.800 i mean that those are rough allegations uh the sheriff has previously sort of

01:09:13.360 hoopooed what happened in el paso like oh my god you know yeah what do you want to get me i'm like

01:09:18.660 my middle school grades next like this is not a big deal but the entire union being against him

01:09:24.540 he's got some very senior ex-cops who've gone on the record in this case saying not a good guy and

01:09:30.000 not a good investigator now you hear the county supervisors i mean like james the list is long

01:09:34.760 Yeah, we talked about it, I think, three or four episodes ago where you played the tape of him talking bad about the Bureau for investigating him and how he's the real cop.

01:09:44.280 And, you know, again, I think it's always a bad thing if we're the sheriff of a very large organization is somehow leading a major investigation.

01:09:54.320 That is not their role. Their role is to get resources. Their role is to talk to the media.

01:09:59.080 Their role is to do damage control. Their role is to support the officers who are actually doing the work. That's what you want from a sheriff or a chief. You do not want them working the case. That is usually, in my experience, not a good thing, and it certainly isn't helpful for the victims.

01:10:16.240 savannah was asked about the investigation i mean which obviously isn't going so well

01:10:24.660 and um she threaded that needle just just so take a listen here sought eight how did your

01:10:31.320 family feel about the way the investigation was conducted well it's still going yeah

01:10:39.020 Yeah. And people have worked tirelessly, tirelessly, and we see that. But we need answers.

01:10:54.340 we cannot be at peace without knowing and someone can do the right thing

01:11:05.800 and it is never too late to do the right thing

01:11:09.660 and our hearts are focused on that

01:11:14.560 she was too smart to you know rip on the sheriff who's currently got her mother's fate in his 1.00

01:11:23.720 hands in some ways. So she said, well, it's still going. That's her telegraphing. Like, I don't,

01:11:28.660 I can't say anything bad. And a shout out to the people who have worked, quote, tirelessly on the

01:11:34.040 case. I'm sure there are a lot of investigators who are doing everything night and day to

01:11:37.540 solve this crime. But then a demand for answers at the end, like, and then finally a reach out

01:11:45.060 to the kidnapper or abductor, whoever it is, to say, please, it's never too late. It doesn't seem

01:11:50.440 she has confidence in the sheriff. And I have to feel for her, Pat, because when she got the news

01:11:55.180 from her family that the mom had been taken, they thought, right? And she was in New York,

01:12:01.540 and she had to get on a plane and fly out to Arizona. The reports early on were that she

01:12:05.920 called Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly. And she said to him, you know, like, this terrible

01:12:14.940 thing has happened. And reportedly, he vouched for the sheriff, like, you're in good hands,

01:12:18.540 you'll be fine. And that kind of thing, you know, I'm sure that a U.S. senator would do that because

01:12:24.520 maybe he knows Nanos and he's, Nanos is also a Democrat. And it's kind of like, yeah, you're

01:12:28.460 good. You're in good hands. Don't worry. He'll take care of you. I'll call him and I'll make

01:12:31.700 sure he takes care of you. But it does make me think, you know, you're in that position that

01:12:36.840 Mark Kelly's in. You get a call from somebody like Savannah Guthrie about something as serious,

01:12:40.140 like you, you have to make damn sure you guys know this as actual cops. Like you don't recommend

01:12:47.500 you're in good hands with this particular guy unless you know he can do this like if this is

01:12:55.360 a friend of yours it's savannah guthrie i know i know if i called you pat and said god forbid

01:13:00.180 something like this happened you would not say trust this sheriff or this fbi agent unless you

01:13:07.360 knew i could take it to the bank and i think something my guess is that something went wrong

01:13:13.700 here, that he recommended Nanos in a way Savannah came to trust Nanos. And this was placed in the

01:13:20.000 hands of the wrong person. And I don't think the family leaned on him or the authorities strongly

01:13:24.320 enough, not to blame them. I'm just saying I think they trusted him early on to get this out of his

01:13:29.340 hands and into the hands of the FBI. Your thoughts? Well, I think so. First of all, her words were

01:13:33.720 carefully chosen, carefully parsed. But I think this may be a case where the senator, almost

01:13:40.760 perhaps a knee-jerk response relative to the competence of the sheriff. And then again,

01:13:48.280 the sheriff who has, because I did some research on him, he has a very checkered past in many ways.

01:13:53.700 You mentioned no confidence and so forth. But because he had no history, again, again, Megan,

01:13:59.280 supreme irony, no history of ever conducting any serious investigations. And this is extremely

01:14:05.320 serious. So there wouldn't be any context or nuance, legacy nuance or context for the senator

01:14:11.680 to lean into relative to his capabilities. Right. So it's the perfect circle. It's a perfect circle.

01:14:17.980 Yeah, I think my understanding is he's a good guy, whatever that means. Yeah, it seems like a good

01:14:23.720 egg. And he's leading that force. And but again, no, no, no fact based context that. Yeah, I recall

01:14:32.340 now, when they had that triple murder, you know, three years ago, he led it efficiently and

01:14:37.920 effectively. And he was able to develop the relevant intel data reports and facts and lead

01:14:43.100 to, you know, arrest, indictment, conviction. Nothing. The reason is nothing. It comes back

01:14:48.680 to the circle of the affluence of the area and the virtual absence of serious and certainly

01:14:55.260 super violent crimes. This one is suggested to be. You can't you can never give you a

01:15:01.240 recommendation unless you actually know, especially on something as important as this, like

01:15:05.340 we needed a real cop at the head of this investigation. And it just doesn't feel to

01:15:11.020 me like we have it. We only have a short time left, but I have to get this in jumping back

01:15:15.160 to Savannah soundbites that probe where the investigation is and how she's feeling about it.

01:15:20.740 Now, very clearly, Savannah does not believe any member of her family had anything to do with this.

01:15:27.320 And that we understand and it makes perfect sense. That doesn't mean the rest of us have to give them the same benefit of the doubt. I would expect her to defend her immediate family members. But this is the first time we hear her directly show her anger over the speculation, in particular about, I mean, it's been about Tomas. She calls him Tommy.

01:15:49.040 But she seems to suggest maybe her brother Cameron also came under fire.

01:15:53.500 Maybe that happened, you know, with some influencers that I don't know about.

01:15:56.580 And obviously Annie is married to Tommy, so she's been somewhat under the microscope

01:16:01.500 because her car got towed by the authorities and impounded and kept for six weeks for investigative purposes

01:16:09.460 and because the cops kept going back to her house and taking pictures with all the lights out

01:16:13.560 and taking items from her home, even though that wasn't the crime scene.

01:16:16.940 And so, of course, people were like, what's going on with those two?

01:16:19.900 And the husband was the last one to see Nancy alive, you know, prior to the abductor.

01:16:24.480 So here's Savannah, though, lamenting the focus on the family in Sot 7.

01:16:31.440 It's unbearable.

01:16:36.560 And it piles pain upon pain.

01:16:43.940 There are no words.

01:16:46.940 There are no words.

01:16:50.160 I don't understand. I'll never understand.

01:16:56.880 And no one took better care of my mom than my sister and brother-in-law.

01:17:06.200 And no one protected my mom more than my brother.

01:17:12.400 And we love her, and she is our shining light.

01:17:15.480 She's our matriarch. 1.00

01:17:16.940 she's all we have. I'm just going to say here again would have been a great place for some

01:17:23.040 follow-up journalism. Tell us why you don't believe they had anything to do with it.

01:17:28.620 And she might've been willing to answer. They all took polygraphs and passed with flying colors

01:17:34.260 as we had Chad, Chad Ayers report on our air a week ago, but we don't know what she's basing that

01:17:39.960 on right now because the question wasn't asked. The information wasn't provided, but James,

01:17:44.520 you tell me whether there's been something irresponsible. Forget what the influencers do.

01:17:50.620 They're going to say Savannah did it. The influencers are going to go, you know,

01:17:54.140 so-called influencers who are just going out there for clicks. I'm talking about actual

01:17:58.000 journalists. And clearly she's mad at Ashley Banfield. And we've heard that. I heard that

01:18:02.300 myself, that she's furious with Ashley and about the reports involving her brother-in-law.

01:18:07.300 But you tell me whether it's irresponsible to take a look at Tommy and Annie.

01:18:11.540 No, it's not. And, you know, we haven't. Again, we have a lady who has not been found. And so we it's a lead bucket. You know, where if we're working this case, we're going back to a number of leads and friends, family is a lead bucket. And we have to look there. Right. But unfortunately, what you have on the back end is, you know, the sheriff's already said I've cleared them.

01:18:34.140 So how do you, you know, we talked about this a couple of episodes ago.

01:18:37.620 How do you clear somebody if you haven't solved the crime?

01:18:40.780 So, yeah, they might have an alibi for the actual night, but it doesn't mean there wasn't an involvement that, you know, you don't find about later.

01:18:47.780 So it's very difficult to say I've cleared somebody without solving the actual crime.

01:18:52.900 So that's, you know, I think she's hearing, you know, both sides getting frustrated because, wait, the sheriff said we're cleared and yet these people are still asking these questions.

01:19:00.080 We have to look at it, okay?

01:19:01.720 And there's a way to do that in a way that doesn't seem terribly – listen to her trauma.

01:19:07.800 She lost her dad when she was 16.

01:19:10.200 I mean, it is dripping off of her.

01:19:12.980 So any inference of anything that her family has done wrong here is going to be doubly compounded by all the trauma she's been through.

01:19:20.540 I mean, I get it.

01:19:21.400 I understand it.

01:19:22.640 But obviously, that's an area they have to look in.

01:19:26.880 And then there's a number of areas they're looking in.

01:19:28.760 But we don't have anything.

01:19:30.180 We are nowhere.

01:19:31.720 after 53 days. Yeah. And even she says, we have no idea. We don't know anything, she said. This

01:19:39.680 is her theory that she's sticking with about an abduction, a kidnapping for ransom. But she

01:19:44.840 explicitly says, we don't know anything. Right. But like what Pat's saying, I'm sorry, but Pat is

01:19:50.700 right. You know, these communities that elect these folks, it's all fun and games until you

01:19:55.660 really need a law enforcement person for a high profile crime like this. And when you're in these

01:20:00.580 little sleepy areas and nothing bad ever happens you know and then it does like we said i think

01:20:06.080 the first episode it is it is highlighted i mean you have a flashlight of strobe light on you

01:20:12.520 and your confidence or incompetence and and it's it is really really difficult if you've never

01:20:17.660 worked a case like this and this is a tough one right and so again um that that's what pat's

01:20:23.380 talking about and he's 100 correct and they're they're the victim of that and she can't just go

01:20:27.360 out, meaning Savannah, and just hire some expert to come in and take over the case. It does not

01:20:33.780 work that way. Law enforcement has the primacy on it. So it's a very, very difficult situation.

01:20:41.160 I mean, I will say also, nor can she dictate what the media is going to speculate about,

01:20:45.540 because I'm sure there are major downsides to the family of the media being so interested in the

01:20:50.120 case, but the upsides are far more important and considerable. The media interest in this case,

01:21:01.080 if anything, is what's going to get it solved, is what's going to keep the pressure on

01:21:04.820 Nanos, his department. It's why we have the vote of no confidence. They don't normally just run

01:21:09.300 to the microphones in any given case that the sheriff isn't solving and say, we don't have

01:21:12.980 confidence in this guy. You need to know he's not up to the task. The media is bringing all the

01:21:17.460 pressure. Um, she, it was the, the one misstep I would say Savannah made in this interview and

01:21:21.920 there, there was no other was where she complained about how the family had to move locations. Um,

01:21:29.420 I guess more than once because there were media outside. And she talked about how it was like in

01:21:33.440 the, in the dark of night, we had to get in a black car, you know, in the desert. Okay. Like

01:21:38.080 they got into a chauffeur driven limousine and were taken to this stunning multimillion dollar

01:21:42.780 mansion in the hills with an Olympic-sized swimming pool, they were fine. They were better

01:21:47.980 off in that other location than being on such a busy road where the media could obviously go.

01:21:52.900 The media is a blessing in a case like this. Yes, there's some downside, but it's not even

01:21:59.480 50-50 blessing curse. They're a blessing. Every family with a missing person out there would pray

01:22:05.520 to God to have the kind of media coverage that this case has gotten. They would pray to God.

01:22:10.260 So you can't complain about the media, which is your best friend.

01:22:13.860 Here's the last thing I want to end on.

01:22:16.240 This was the one that actually moved me the most.

01:22:20.140 And she talked about the one conversation in which she actually, of her life, she said, in which she actually heard from God.

01:22:31.360 Like she actually heard him speak.

01:22:33.800 And here it is in Sat 12.

01:22:34.820 Early on, I felt that I heard one of the very few times in my life.

01:22:45.860 I did hear God speak to me.

01:22:52.780 As I said to myself, I can handle anything, God.

01:22:58.360 I can handle anything.

01:22:59.360 I just can't handle not knowing.

01:23:01.740 We can't handle not knowing.

01:23:04.340 Yeah.

01:23:04.560 I have to know, and I heard a voice, and it said, you do know where she is, she's with me, she's with me, so whether she is on this earth still,

01:23:28.600 or whether she is in heaven.

01:23:36.520 I know where she is.

01:23:38.480 I know who she's with.

01:23:43.720 But we need to know.

01:23:49.340 That's awful.

01:23:50.720 That really brings home

01:23:52.760 what the family's been going through

01:23:55.080 and the horrors of this crime.

01:23:56.860 You guys, having heard everything at this point, you know, about 60 days in, do you think we will ever have answers?

01:24:06.520 Are we actually going to find Nancy Guthrie, Pat?

01:24:10.140 I don't know.

01:24:12.040 I don't know.

01:24:14.020 But what I do believe, Megan, is that Savannah wasn't speaking to the offenders.

01:24:20.800 She was speaking to the circle around him.

01:24:23.180 And I've maintained this for a while, not just with the 41-second video, but everything else surrounding the fact that there are people who know that walk.

01:24:34.900 There are people who know that movement.

01:24:36.620 Someone cuts his hair.

01:24:38.420 Someone serves Starbucks to that guy.

01:24:40.520 Someone does the dry cleaning for this guy. 0.95

01:24:43.140 It's very clear to me that the mask actually revealed him more than concealed him to the extent that his mustache line, his eyes set.

01:24:51.780 all the things that happened when he turned 360 i believe that dozens and dozens and dozens of

01:24:58.640 people know precisely who that is but this started off on the wrong foot it was a 2500

01:25:04.300 ransom which is a direct insult to snitches around the world reward you've got to be kidding

01:25:10.440 reward beyond horrific beyond horrific didn't move the needle i had snitches you got to pay 1.00

01:25:16.920 them. That's the way it works. Don't know the answer. I have my own theory. I don't really

01:25:23.780 like to publicly articulate it for bad karma relating to whether she's alive or not. But

01:25:29.500 the reality is we may never know because those dozens of people are hesitating to pick up their

01:25:37.860 phone and call even with a million bucks lying in a balance. So either this is an extremely

01:25:44.640 dangerous person, then maybe it's not worth getting your throat slit at a later date for 0.88

01:25:49.560 the book of ruse. I don't know. Beyond confounding. Nothing. Bottom line, nothing adds up. Nothing. 0.95

01:25:58.380 What do you say, Randy? Well, I want to go back just for a second to the sheriff.

01:26:05.540 And I don't know if you're aware of this, but he is currently under investigation,

01:26:09.020 currently under investigation for election interference by the attorney general for his

01:26:15.400 conduct during the last election when he was elected. And also, the vote of no confidence

01:26:21.120 by way of perspective, that came before this investigation. The deputy sheriff's union

01:26:29.120 voted that no confidence vote before this investigation took place, which gives you

01:26:35.920 the reality of the morale within that agency and the distinct lack of respect that the working

01:26:46.080 cops actually have in that sheriff. So that just gives you a little more perspective. He's currently

01:26:52.720 under investigation. I have all the details on that. That would suggest to me you do not have

01:26:58.840 high hopes for finding Nancy? I don't know. I'm going to be less circumspect than Pat.

01:27:04.820 I believe that this is a homicide. I believe that there is a strong possibility that

01:27:10.460 there were cartel people involved in this, that this was farmed out to them. And that's why they're

01:27:17.300 not in a DNA database. And I have my doubts that this will ever come to a successful conclusion

01:27:24.640 as for an investigation.

01:27:26.900 And why do you think they did it, Randy, in this theory?

01:27:30.660 Well, what are the motivating factors

01:27:33.980 for these types of situations?

01:27:36.360 Greed, lust, money, hate, revenge.

01:27:43.120 It's one of them.

01:27:46.660 How about you, James?

01:27:47.960 You think we're going to find her?

01:27:49.280 No, I think it's going to be like

01:27:50.900 a number of these cases I've worked

01:27:52.740 where you know it this happens the longer this goes and you have nothing and you have no leads

01:27:58.600 and you have no person of interest and no interviews are being conducted the longer this

01:28:02.400 goes on this could be a you know situation where you know we'll talk about this for 20 years

01:28:07.360 whatever happened to her you know i've seen it i've seen it happen i can name the cases

01:28:12.880 and it's tragic and it's terrible um but that's what i get the feeling you know we don't have

01:28:19.020 We should have things. This is 2026. There are things we should have right now that we do not have in this case. And the longer this goes, the less and less optimistic I am.

01:28:30.920 there's there's one other there's one other piece of information i forgot to give you megan

01:28:35.880 and this is very recent this is very recent from my sources that that massive investigation where

01:28:43.020 there were you know hundreds of investigators working on it has now dwindled to a task force

01:28:48.820 of five people it was bound to happen there's no way they could keep that kind of manpower on it

01:28:55.580 but it's very disturbing that while they had that manpower they got us to a place where there appear

01:29:00.500 to be no suspects. That's another thing Chad Ayers was told by his rock solid source boots on the

01:29:05.280 ground. No suspects, none. I mean, that's, that's not great. Seven weeks in, at least in Brian

01:29:11.080 Kohlberger, when we were ripping on the Idaho police officers, we as like, what's going on?

01:29:16.320 They haven't told us anything. They, they had Brian Kohlberger. We just didn't know it. They

01:29:20.360 were surveilling him. They were following him back to his home in the Poconos. They were getting a

01:29:24.600 warrant to go into his home right before christmas here the the reporting is they have no suspects

01:29:31.500 it's not even like they're narrowing in on the guy none none of that is good and you can feel

01:29:37.020 the family's you know what's amazing thanks so much thank you and james pointed out i'll leave

01:29:41.820 on this final note i kind of promised uh we should have a lot more this is not 1996 i could not agree

01:29:49.360 more i won't get into the litany of investigative tools and the litany of data and the tsunami

01:29:54.480 of intel and information and there's nothing nothing it's beyond bizarre it's like a ghost

01:30:02.460 came in and a ghost vanished and we know there's not ghosts but this is a this is a strangest case

01:30:09.380 i've i've ever personally you know i want to say investigated from uh you know third party but it's

01:30:14.680 unbelievable so i concur there's so much we should have and we have nothing zip zip zip zip zilch

01:30:19.560 not a that that ghost comment gave me a chill i don't know that's like that was eerie right it is

01:30:25.660 like that i mean we saw the ghost on the front steps of her porch but you're right somehow he

01:30:30.440 did vanish and nancy along with him guys lots of love so much appreciate it thank you safe thank

01:30:35.940 you all for thank you for being here yeah thank you yeah james i'm calling you calling you for

01:30:40.340 your your kidnapping protocols as much as my mother's foundation may protect her from looking

01:30:44.760 bad anytime you know it take care yeah there's more in place just just to any bad guys out there

01:30:52.020 there is more in place but that was her original plan um so more of this savannah interview is

01:30:57.320 going to air on the today show tomorrow it's amazing they they broke it up into two parts

01:31:00.700 the first hour second hour today now there's another part part three that's going to air

01:31:06.260 tomorrow plus they're turning it into a dateline i'm like like you can't they're going to milk it

01:31:12.160 for all it's worth over there.

01:31:14.300 That's why they kept Hoda's mic up.

01:31:16.460 That's why she behaved the way, 0.71

01:31:18.720 I'm like, this is theater for some people involved.

01:31:20.740 It's not theater for Savannah Guthrie

01:31:22.180 or any of the Guthries.

01:31:24.000 And my heart goes out to them.

01:31:26.160 The other thing that was interesting

01:31:27.300 was Carson Daly at the end of the piece on the set

01:31:30.300 confessed that none of them has been in contact

01:31:32.380 with Savannah throughout this entire thing.

01:31:35.080 Haven't I been telling you?

01:31:36.820 I mean, no one's been talking to her.

01:31:39.360 Great.

01:31:40.200 But it's one big happy family.

01:31:41.800 that it's a one big habit, trust us,

01:31:44.660 and also continue to tune into the Today Show

01:31:47.120 every morning between 7 and 9 a.m. on NBC.

01:31:49.700 I mean, that's what you're looking at

01:31:51.440 from the cynical network bosses,

01:31:53.740 not talking about Savannah here,

01:31:55.580 who is genuinely in need of our help.

01:31:58.520 All right, coming up next,

01:32:00.060 former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich

01:32:02.580 on what he thinks the Illinois officials may be doing

01:32:06.060 with respect to this illegal who killed poor Sheridan Gorman.

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01:33:08.420 The family of Sheridan Gorman is responding to the Democrats who continue to downplay

01:33:13.560 her horrific murder. 25-year-old Venezuelan illegal immigrant Jose Medina allegedly shot

01:33:20.720 18-year-old Sheridan in the back last Thursday as she fled after he emerged masked and dressed

01:33:28.440 in all black on a pier. She was out to see the Northern Lights, her family says, with her friends.

01:33:33.940 and Sheridan, who tried to get away from this maniac,

01:33:37.700 was shot in the back and then pronounced dead at the scene.

01:33:42.120 Chicago's radical leftist mayor, Brandon Johnson,

01:33:45.400 refused to apologize to the Gorman family

01:33:47.560 and called her murder, quote, just senseless violence.

01:33:50.960 The Gorman family responding with, quote, the following.

01:33:56.140 What happened to Sheridan cannot be reduced

01:33:58.020 to a senseless tragedy,

01:33:59.780 nor can it be explained in general terms

01:34:02.040 about public safety.

01:34:03.560 Sheridan was our daughter.

01:34:05.400 She was 18 years old.

01:34:06.760 She was doing something entirely normal,

01:34:09.320 walking near her campus with friends.

01:34:11.560 She should be here.

01:34:13.360 Calling this senseless is not enough.

01:34:16.780 There must be a clear and honest accounting

01:34:18.340 of what went wrong.

01:34:19.680 We will not allow Sheridan's life 1.00

01:34:21.380 to be reduced to a talking point or a generalization.

01:34:24.160 We expect leadership that is willing to confront hard truths

01:34:27.580 and ensure that what happened to her does not happen again.

01:34:31.160 In reaction to Governor J.B. Pritzker's ex-post calling the murder a tragedy without mentioning the suspect's immigration status, the Gorman family responded again, writing, quote, Sheridan's death cannot be reduced to a general tragedy, nor can it be explained away by broad references to failures somewhere else.

01:34:52.940 Sheridan was a daughter, a sister and a young woman whose life was taken in a way that should never have been possible.

01:34:59.300 We're not interested in political arguments or in watching responsibility shift from one place to another.

01:35:04.180 If there were failures, as the governor himself has acknowledged, then every one of them must be identified, examined and addressed directly.

01:35:11.180 The location of those failures matters less than the willingness to confront them honestly.

01:35:17.420 Our daughter is not a policy debate.

01:35:20.320 She is a life that was taken and that demands accountability.

01:35:24.040 And now a photo has emerged online, which some speculate shows Medina, it looks exactly like him

01:35:30.600 to us, holding up a gang sign. For listening audience, it's like he's got the four fingers

01:35:37.060 of his left hand showing and the ring finger is bent in half. So it's like the pinkies standing

01:35:44.320 out, then the ring finger is bent in half, and then the middle finger and the index finger

01:35:48.260 are showing. And that's apparently a gang sign, which has led to a lot of questions about

01:35:53.860 who this guy is and what he was really doing on the pier that night.

01:35:58.280 Now, he's due back in court tomorrow after missing his detention hearing Monday,

01:36:02.760 reportedly because he's been hospitalized with tuberculosis.

01:36:07.740 A former governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich, wrote the following on X.

01:36:13.080 Sheridan Gorman's killer is being held in isolation.

01:36:16.800 I suspect Pritzker and the Dems are hiding him

01:36:19.780 to cover up the fact that this illegal immigrant killed an innocent young girl as part of a gang 1.00

01:36:25.700 initiation. I know gangbangers and how they operate. I lived with them for eight years,

01:36:32.520 and I know Pritzker and the Dems. Bet you I'm right. Blagojevich there referencing the time

01:36:37.980 he spent in federal prison on corruption charges before being pardoned by President Trump. He came

01:36:42.380 on this show after all that, and we had a fascinating discussion about it. The former

01:36:47.000 governor joins me now his new book famed effed and freed a governor's odyssey is out in august

01:36:53.840 and available for pre-order now uh great to see you rod thanks for coming back on please come on

01:36:59.560 when your book hits too and we can talk all about it but um why do you think that this might have

01:37:04.360 been a gang initiation well i'm almost completely convinced that it was i know this subject all too

01:37:11.220 well because of my unhappy experience. 2,896 days in prison, sheltering in place with crips and

01:37:17.020 bloods, gangster disciples, seeing a law of cartel drug dealers who look up to the gang

01:37:21.280 Lord El Chapo like my daughters look up to Taylor Swift. I was in prison for the first three years

01:37:25.940 with a man who committed murder. So I have an unhappy experience living with those guys and

01:37:31.860 knowing how they operate. And gang initiations are very much a part of the gangs, not only in

01:37:37.580 prison, but in real life. So I have, frankly, little or no doubt that what happened here was

01:37:43.360 that. I mean, the facts suggest that the group of kids were running away from this guy who appeared,

01:37:49.940 he was dressed all in black, and then he decided to shoot poor Sharon in the back. I think it hit

01:37:55.980 her in the back of the neck. It had to be because he had to prove himself to the gang he was trying

01:38:00.800 to join. And one of the most disgusting parts of the story is the fact that he should have never

01:38:05.060 been here in the first place. He's among the hundreds of thousands of criminal illegal aliens 0.90

01:38:09.860 who broke into our country illegally. He was also in custody a couple of years before for

01:38:14.840 shoplifting, but the no bail laws that the Democrats love let him out. And there can be

01:38:21.300 no other motive for doing something like that. So based on all of the facts and circumstances

01:38:27.940 that we know, my own life experience, I'm perfectly convinced that this was a gang

01:38:34.500 initiation. The only explanation for him shooting her and killing her and not shooting at anybody

01:38:39.880 else. Right. Because it seemed like he targeted her, but there was no explanation for why,

01:38:48.320 like there wasn't an altercation. There was, as far as we know, not an attempted like sexual

01:38:53.960 assault or anything like that. He just got his eyes on her. She sensed danger. He had a gun.

01:39:00.380 He had a black mask on. She ran and her friends ran, too. And he shot her in the back.

01:39:05.640 I mean, so you're you're you're citing the determination to take a life on his part as evidence that that that that in and of itself had purchased for him.

01:39:14.980 That's exactly right. He was instructed by the gang he wanted to join to do that and kill somebody.

01:39:19.340 I saw it in prison. These guys would, the Latino gangs in particular, these guys, the new inmates, would be required to do certain things in violation of the rules to prove themselves to their car, which is the gang, were in prison. And the politics of this, I know, because I was a Democratic governor.

01:39:35.380 Well, wait, stand by, stand by. I want to talk all about that. Forgive me, but we're out of time on the SiriusXM.

01:39:40.420 Okay.

01:39:41.060 One o'clock hour, but we're going to pick back up on the two o'clock hour in five seconds. We take a quick break. We'll be right back with the governor.

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01:41:32.820 Former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich is back with me now.

01:41:36.440 We are discussing the murder of Sheridan Gorman and why the former governor believes that this illegal immigrant who is accused of killing her may have done so as part of a gang initiation.

01:41:48.040 So you're saying in prison, did you did you just have to commit a crime in order to join a gang or go so far as to commit a murder?

01:41:56.400 No, no, I never saw anybody get murdered as part of a gang initiation in prison.

01:42:00.360 But I saw several instances over those unhappy nearly eight years of some of the gangbanger inmates who had to.

01:42:10.600 They had to become part of the larger gang and had to prove themselves to be part of the group.

01:42:15.760 And they were required to go out and do certain things.

01:42:18.280 They were against the rules, whether they were crimes or not.

01:42:22.880 It really didn't matter. Whatever the prison rules were, they were instructed to go break them. It could have been, for example, get the first kick in against another inmate who was part of the group who had done something outside of the gang's requirements.

01:42:37.620 They would do this thing called group justice, where they would get all gathered together and each member of the group would strike a blow against the fallen, misbehaved gangbanger.

01:42:50.900 So this kind of stuff is sort of tradition and culture.

01:42:54.760 And it was very common there.

01:42:57.300 And, you know, I grew up in a rough and tough neighborhood when I was a kid growing up.

01:43:00.180 So I wasn't exactly immune to how street gangs operated either.

01:43:03.900 And what I see with this particular case cries out to me that it was it had to be a gang initiation.

01:43:10.020 What are the motivation that this guy have to kill that poor, innocent girl like he did where he did dressed as he was?

01:43:19.100 And the fact now that they're keeping him in hiding, which I really believe they're doing, would suggest that they know exactly what the motivation was.

01:43:26.520 That's why they're they have.

01:43:27.840 OK, now explain that, because what we've been told is he missed his first court appearance because he has tuberculosis and he was hospitalized and is reportedly being kept in isolation in any event in the prison.

01:43:41.060 So what what why is that suspicious to you?

01:43:43.340 Well, I believe the Democratic Governor Pritzker said the word down that they wanted to not change the narrative that the Democrats have had when it comes to illegal immigrants, because what this does is it blows up the narrative.

01:43:54.700 And what it does is it shows that everything President Trump's been about and what he's been trying to do to rid our communities of criminal, illegal immigrants is very real and that they are here committing very real crimes like killing innocent young girls. 1.00

01:44:10.840 This goes against their narrative and it goes against the narrative, not just of Governor Pritzker or Mayor Johnson, but against the entire Democratic Party today.

01:44:18.840 And it's among the reasons why I think.

01:44:20.260 How would keeping him in isolation solve this problem?

01:44:24.700 Well, I think the isolation is a holding pattern until the smoke settles and they can get past this being front page news and just basically bury it under the rug or hide it in the closet.

01:44:39.520 That's what I very much believe.

01:44:41.220 And I do know that Democratic judges here in Cook County are susceptible to sometimes getting the word from on high and making decisions outside of what is right or wrong.

01:44:51.600 Is there a possibility of if he's a gang member and he gets thrown in prison pending a trial or obviously in here, I think it would just be the arraignment that he could be in danger from other gang members worried he might squeal or, you know, is that is that a thing?

01:45:08.020 That is a thing. And you're asking a very good question. Yes, of course, that's a thing. And I saw that happen, too, during those eight years, where from time to time, somebody who was a snitch. The mantra in prison is snitches are bitches who get stitches. They would be punished for doing that. 0.95

01:45:25.780 And I even was told the story about someone that converted it in the prison I was in when I first got there only two weeks before because that guy had been the recipient of a hit that came out from the Sinaloa cartel drugs because that guy was going to be a, I guess, testify against some of the activities of the Sinaloa cartel drugs, drug dealers.

01:45:46.600 So, no, I think all of this fits in with that experience that I had, the narrative, because the other side of it is that this was just some random killing and he decided to just shoot some innocent person and nobody else.

01:45:59.700 With only a shoplifting crime on his record, not a violent past, at least not here in America, that we know of.

01:46:07.360 So, yeah, he went from zero to 60 fast.

01:46:10.340 But you're right.

01:46:11.160 If you add in the gang element, maybe it makes more sense.

01:46:13.140 And then we see this picture of him.

01:46:15.160 This was posted on X by a site that goes by Moore, M-O-O-R, Real News.

01:46:21.520 They have no website.

01:46:22.580 They only post to X.

01:46:24.380 And this is the only post about Medina.

01:46:26.300 It reads as follows.

01:46:27.640 Jose Medina Medina.

01:46:29.480 They purport that the date of this photo is June 11th, 2023.

01:46:34.360 Picture taken outside of the Lyon Park Beach, 1222 West Touchy Avenue, Chicago, Illinois,

01:46:41.340 where the city of Chicago and older woman Maria Haddon

01:46:45.160 housed Jose, suggesting he lived on public assistance,

01:46:49.540 200 feet from where Sheridan Gorman was murdered.

01:46:54.520 And so this is what all they posted him

01:46:56.080 in what we believe is a gang sign.

01:46:58.060 And we actually just did a little research on this

01:47:00.080 per a handbook for the Institute of Police,

01:47:03.760 which is based out of Florida.

01:47:05.100 They recognize this thing he's doing with his hand

01:47:07.980 as a gang sign.

01:47:08.940 It stands for Insane Vice Lords, which actually makes sense because the pinky looks like an I, and then you've got the other two fingers looking like a V, and I suppose the index finger and the thumb could be an L.

01:47:23.340 Insane Vice Lords. 0.99

01:47:25.460 They're called that, or they're called the Almighty Vice Lords Nation.

01:47:28.800 The Department of Justice says that this enterprise began in Chicago, which is still considered its headquarters, has a bunch of different divisions now.

01:47:40.620 They became one of Chicago's largest and most influential street gangs, heavily tied to narcotics.

01:47:46.460 And per a 2015 handbook from the Florida Department of Corrections, they write that members often have tattoos either on their hand below the thumb to identify themselves or as a protective mechanism for members facing possible jail time.

01:48:04.040 We don't see a tattoo here.

01:48:07.040 Oh, we do on Medina?

01:48:08.940 Where is it?

01:48:10.520 Oh, we do see one right below his thumb.

01:48:13.620 Oh, my God.

01:48:14.340 Yeah, we do see one.

01:48:16.460 Dang. Yeah. We didn't see it in the hand making the gang sign, but we do see it in his right hand

01:48:20.760 holding a phone and decked out in bling. And his other hand is decked out in bling too. He appears

01:48:26.480 to be wearing what's probably a fake Rolex. I don't know what he's wearing, but he's blinged

01:48:31.640 out. He's got the hoodie sweatshirt on. He's got the Michael Jordan cap. That's a thing. The Michael

01:48:36.200 Jordan cap, Michael Jordan clothing. We saw this with, uh, what's his name over in Maryland,

01:48:42.000 Maryland man, Calmar Abrego-Garcia, and he's with another guy wearing a hoodie, a red hoodie

01:48:48.800 next to him. So there's some circumstantial evidence, Gov, that maybe this guy is in a gang.

01:48:56.160 He got here in 2023 and promptly joined a gang. Great job. Great job, Joe Biden.

01:49:03.240 What's really sickening is the fact that he's being protected by the Democratic Party.

01:49:07.140 he and others like him they have become the priority of the today's democratic party governor

01:49:12.180 prisker's gone to war with the president united states to protect guys like him and they don't

01:49:17.240 want to change the narrative that's why i firmly believe they're doing what they can to try to

01:49:21.100 keep this low keep them hidden and um and not allow the narrative that's truthful to come out

01:49:27.500 what's interesting megan is loyola university and i know this area real well because i live actually

01:49:32.140 not that far away. My daughters have walked on that beach. But Loyola University has a

01:49:38.360 student newspaper, and they came out today with an apology, essentially an apology,

01:49:43.580 apologizing that he was referred to, Jose Medina Medina was referred to for what he is,

01:49:47.920 an illegal immigrant. And they apologized for the use of the phrase illegal immigrant.

01:49:53.580 They didn't express any condolences to Sheridan Gorman or her family. It was just trying to,

01:49:59.760 I get make it right with the immigrant activist community that has become part now of the mainstream of the Democrat Party.

01:50:08.320 And they don't want any narrative that goes against how they're trying to describe the circumstances of all these people came to America in violation of the law.

01:50:17.220 Now, 10 to 15 percent of them, the best estimates, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, are criminals.

01:50:24.000 All the others have come here. They broke the law. They're probably not criminals.

01:50:27.860 They're trying to work to make a better life for themselves.

01:50:30.120 But whether they're criminals or not, they came here illegally. 0.96

01:50:33.220 And if we're going to be a country that respects the rule of law, well, I mean, we have responsibilities to, you know, enforce that law.

01:50:42.200 The Democrats have decided to block the enforcement of that law for their political agenda.

01:50:47.360 And this guy is now caught up in that political game that the Democrats are playing.

01:50:51.760 I mean, I guess we'll find out because if he was in a gang in 2023, then he probably wasn't doing a gang initiation in 2026. But there is some circumstantial evidence here that the guy was flirting with the gang life, possibly in gang life.

01:51:12.040 And in the absence of any other motive on this horrific crime, which makes no sense, you've got to at least go there.

01:51:17.900 You have to investigate it.

01:51:19.240 And here's the thing.

01:51:20.840 As Julie Kelly, who's done great, great reporting on the federal judges and what they're doing to President Trump's agenda, and in particular how they tried to stymie his attempt to get out Venezuelan, that's what this guy is, Venezuelan gang members, and Judge Boseberg in Washington, D.C., issuing a national injunction stopping it. 0.76

01:51:39.300 she tweeted out the following. She wrote, um, she finds the tuberculosis, tuberculosis isolation

01:51:48.260 suspicious. And she says this photo that we're showing you, if it's him could raise the

01:51:53.040 possibility that Sheridan's execution was part of a gang initiation. She writes, if this animal

01:51:58.360 is Trenda Aragua, God help every single activist group and judge starting with Jeb Bosberg who

01:52:06.020 blocked his deportation. Because remember, Trump tried to get all Trender-Aragua out of the country 0.95

01:52:10.980 and back to Venezuela in one fell swoop, and Bozberg stopped it. And she pointed out,

01:52:16.440 I want to talk to you about Democrat politicians for sure, including Pritzker and Brandon Johnson,

01:52:22.260 the mayor. But let me just play you this Julie Kelly soundbite. She went on with our pals, 1.00

01:52:26.500 Real Clear Politics, great podcast and precedes my own show here on the MK channel and SiriusXM

01:52:31.420 Channel 111. And she made a great point about how the judges, too, are complicit in allowing

01:52:38.460 these Venezuelan illegal gang members to stay in our country, whether this guy is one or not. 0.68

01:52:45.580 They have permitted people just like him to stay here with impunity. Listen to her.

01:52:52.120 One other party that I think is very culpable in all of this are federal judges. Think about

01:53:00.080 what's happening in Washington, D.C. with Chief Judge Jeb Bosberg, who basically was the first

01:53:06.980 judge to put a hold, to put a brick on the President's Alien Enemies Act proclamation

01:53:13.600 that authorized the immediate removal of Venezuelans, illegal Venezuelans who were here, 0.65

01:53:20.580 who were tied to Trendelagua. Not only did Jeb Bosberg put a hold on that policy that then

01:53:27.900 manifested nationwide. To add to that, Jeb Bosberg is still, and this case is still pending,

01:53:35.520 trying to order the Trump administration to fly these 137 illegal Venezuelans men,

01:53:43.040 who were then sent to El Salvador, then to their home country, Venezuelan,

01:53:47.100 to return them to the United States. Still now, a year later, the Supreme Court punted on this.

01:53:53.640 We're still waiting for a final ruling. But when you have judges and even the Supreme Court sort of look the other way as the president and his administration are trying to remove the most dangerous criminals who cross the border illegally during the Biden administration, what does that signal to the illegals who are there?

01:54:19.280 It's such a good point, Rod.

01:54:21.040 Look, let me firmly assert, to borrow from Franklin Roosevelt, Jose Medina Medina is a gangbanger. Let me also firmly assert that the chances are that he's a member of Trendy Aragua are extremely good. And the most compelling evidence to suggest that to me is how the Democrats are treating this particular heinous crime against this poor, innocent young girl because of the fact that that goes against everything they've been saying with regard to illegal immigration and proves everything that President Trump's been saying. 0.50

01:54:50.700 That's what I really believe is happening. And I think Pritzker's made the phone calls to the judges and whoever else is necessary, the prosecutors, to do what they can to try to keep this quiet and not let the truth out.

01:55:02.180 Well, let me let me add another element to it right now, because J.B. Pritzker wants to be president. He wants the nomination and he wants the top job.

01:55:13.020 this could completely sink his chances. This truly could be the death knell to his presidential

01:55:19.940 campaign. He rejected President Trump's offer of help to try to get the illegals out of Illinois.

01:55:29.620 Even before the Minneapolis riots and all that, Trump went to him and said, I want to send ICE

01:55:36.140 in to help you with your illegal immigration problem. And he wrapped himself in the flag

01:55:42.640 and tried to pretend it was the patriotic thing to do to refuse that help and to instead protect

01:55:48.980 the illegals, including Jose Medina Medina. Here is what Governor Pritzker said. It's like a little

01:55:56.880 montage, I think, about Trump when Trump was making that offer and actually trying to insist

01:56:02.860 that he'd be allowed to clean up the streets of the illegals. Here's what Pritzker said. 1.00

01:56:07.700 What President Trump is doing is unprecedented and unwarranted. It is unconstitutional.

01:56:16.360 It is un-American. Find a family who's enjoying today sitting on their front porch and ask if 0.99

01:56:24.160 they want their neighborhoods turned into a war zone by a wannabe dictator. Our small businesses

01:56:29.960 suffer when our residents and visitors who are shopping and eating are made to feel unsafe

01:56:34.800 by the jackbooted thugs roaming around a peaceful downtown.

01:56:38.460 Make sure that you understand that the ICE officials don't have a right to knock down

01:56:43.700 doors and to take people away.

01:56:45.780 We're thinking of you and doing everything we can to protect you.

01:56:48.700 So this is dangerous.

01:56:50.040 They shouldn't be doing it.

01:56:51.200 It's anti-American.

01:56:52.340 It's un-American. 0.82

01:56:53.240 It's an attack on the American people by the president of the United States.

01:56:56.840 It's like it's become some sort of secret police force for Donald Trump.

01:57:00.220 I'm saying we don't want troops on the streets of American cities.

01:57:04.340 That's on America.

01:57:06.340 Eight months later, Sheridan Gorman was gunned down by an illegal from Venezuela, 1.00

01:57:12.920 who, for all we know, might have been caught by Tom Homan's guys had they been allowed to get rid of the illegals prowling the streets. 0.97

01:57:22.640 This you can the campaign ad writes itself.

01:57:25.440 You're a politician. Can't you see it? This is very dangerous for J.B. Pritzker.

01:57:30.620 And that's the motivation to do everything he can to cover this up. And then look at his behavior

01:57:34.460 in the immediate wake of this murder. He didn't say anything for four days. It wasn't until,

01:57:40.680 you know, the pressure was on. People had noticed he hadn't said anything,

01:57:44.080 that he actually had a spokesperson put out a statement. He didn't even say it.

01:57:47.880 Brandon Johnson, same thing. They were just hoping it would kind of go away and not become

01:57:53.460 a political issue that now it has correctly become, because this really highlights the

01:57:58.320 question. Is it about public safety first? Is that the responsibility of governors and mayors

01:58:02.860 and presidents? Or is it about protecting gangbangers and gangbangers from other countries

01:58:07.660 who work into our country illegally? That's the issue. And the Democrats have sided with the 0.95

01:58:11.840 latter. Trump has sided with the former. We have laws, enforce those laws, and execute those laws.

01:58:18.460 But Pritzker has spent his entire second term using all of his resources and energy to try to make himself a viable presidential candidate on the backs of public safety of law-abiding citizens, including this poor young girl.

01:58:32.860 And you're right.

01:58:33.960 It's all about his campaign now.

01:58:35.780 And if this blows up on him, he's done on arrival.

01:58:39.000 But I must say, Megan, I know him real well.

01:58:40.980 He used to work for me.

01:58:42.280 He's not going to be president even if this doesn't blow up on him.

01:58:45.900 Why?

01:58:47.340 Well, because he's flawed in so many ways.

01:58:50.380 Now he's, you know, he's been dropping weight.

01:58:52.460 I know you know that.

01:58:53.780 He's doing a Zempick. 0.99

01:58:54.640 He's totally on a Zempick. 1.00

01:58:55.940 It's obvious.

01:58:56.140 There's no question about it.

01:58:57.020 He won't admit it.

01:58:58.120 Claims he's walking five miles a day.

01:58:59.560 I've eaten lunch with this guy.

01:59:01.260 Sure.

01:59:01.680 And, you know.

01:59:02.560 Let me guess.

01:59:03.200 It's his clean water regimen.

01:59:07.120 Right.

01:59:07.820 Anyway, I shouldn't make fun of him personally.

01:59:09.540 I mean, what he ought to do is make ad throws out because it clearly works.

01:59:13.440 But what he shouldn't be is our president.

01:59:15.220 He shouldn't be our governor.

01:59:16.340 And it's a disgrace what they're doing. And I shouldn't joke about this because we lost a young life. I think about those parents. I have two young daughters myself. We can all who are parents sort of walk in their shoes and understand what they're going through and pray that God has a warm, loving place for her near to him. But this should have never happened. It should have never happened if they simply followed the law instead of playing politics.

01:59:39.540 Pritzker politicized this. Brandon Johnson politicized this. The Democrats have politicized

01:59:44.280 this. And now I think they've got a real political problem on their hands.

01:59:49.840 Brandon Johnson continues, just like Pritzker, to blame Trump. It's like it's one thing to not

01:59:57.440 take responsibility for your city and state policies, but to blame a president who is

02:00:03.520 actively trying, who has actively tried to put ICE agents in your city and state in Chicago

02:00:09.680 to clean it up of illegals, to turn the nerve of the gaslighting that is like epic level. 0.66

02:00:15.480 Here's Brandon Johnson on Tuesday, SOT 54.

02:00:19.620 You know what the bigger threat to our public safety is illegal weapons that are being trafficked

02:00:26.080 from bordering states that voted for Donald Trump.

02:00:32.400 This president refuses to be held accountable,

02:00:36.880 and he points the finger at everything and everyone else

02:00:39.960 versus doing some real self-reflection on what his responsibility is.

02:00:46.820 So let's just stick with the word that you like to use, illegal.

02:00:51.020 He has promulgated illegal wars.

02:00:53.580 he is protecting states that are releasing illegal weapons throughout the streets of

02:01:00.840 america illegal tariffs if there is anything to address in this country that's illegal

02:01:09.060 it's everything about the trump administration

02:01:11.900 that's it's just he tries to pivot he doesn't want to take one bit of responsibility or even

02:01:21.700 Rod to apologize. He was asked yesterday, we found the name of that great reporter who asked

02:01:26.500 him a tough question about, do you want to apologize to poor Sheridan Gorman's family

02:01:30.900 for the policies that got her killed? And his name is William Kelly. No relation, but very proud of

02:01:36.440 him. And he wouldn't. He just kept going, oh, it's just senseless violence, gun violence, senseless

02:01:42.160 gun violence and Trump's fault. I mean, par for the course, a day ending in Y for Democrats in

02:01:48.040 Chicago, no? Well, we have the local alderwoman from that neighborhood said he was in the wrong

02:01:53.700 place at the wrong time. She shared it was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Chicago sometimes

02:01:58.040 didn't have a headline saying the same thing. This is all the Democrat narrative. And it's

02:02:02.880 interesting, too, because it's not uncommon for politicians when they're, you know, facing

02:02:06.920 something that they did really wrong or failed in their duty, which is the case with Johnson and

02:02:11.240 Pritzker, to quickly pivot and point the blame at somebody else, which they're not doing. Let

02:02:15.900 me point this out, Megan. Days before this killing, Pritzker had announced a commission

02:02:20.740 that he's forming to investigate who? ICE agents and law enforcement officials so that in the event

02:02:26.600 that a Democrat president in 2028, they're going to be held accountable for doing their jobs and

02:02:32.160 enforcing the law to find illegal immigrants, many of whom are criminals, and kick them out 1.00

02:02:36.500 of our country. So now this happened and it sort of steps on his storyline and just goes to show

02:02:42.900 priorities are. I can't even believe he's done that these people are elected. He is.

02:02:48.960 No, he is toast. There is just no way. The Democrats really want to win in 2028. They are

02:02:54.980 really, really over the Trump presidency and the Trump legacy. And they're they are not going to

02:03:00.260 nominate somebody with this level of baggage on this issue. They need somebody who can go up there

02:03:06.240 and make the case of the horrors in Minneapolis. Ice overreach. They're disgusting pigs. We hate 0.97

02:03:11.540 them. And they do not want somebody who's going to be vulnerable to because you wouldn't let that

02:03:18.320 horrible group come in and help the young women of Chicago. Sheridan Gorman is dead. They can't.

02:03:25.080 He's done. The more I look at this story and see his on-camera comments, like the ones I played

02:03:30.540 for you over and over, there's a litany of them. The more I realize he's toast. He is toast and

02:03:37.420 good because we can't, we can't have more of him. And I don't like Brandon Johnson. I don't know

02:03:41.260 what Chicago is doing, Rod, but let me ask you about the sanctuary city policy. Cause I went,

02:03:45.920 you, you left office in 2009 in, in 2017 is when Illinois became a sanctuary state,

02:03:51.740 but Chicago did it back in 1985. So what did something change in the way, like I lived in

02:03:59.180 Chicago for five years between, I don't know, it was between 1995 and 2001. And it wasn't,

02:04:08.620 it was, Chicago was wonderful back then. That was, you know, Mayor Daley, you could eat off

02:04:11.820 the streets. It was like so clean. What, I don't remember a big problem of illegals. You know, 0.91

02:04:17.140 there was Cabrini Green, which is where like most of the gangbangers lived. And that was a way,

02:04:20.920 kind of away from the sprawling downtown and Michigan Avenue. But like, what is it with

02:04:25.380 chicago and now illinois and the sanctuary status well a lot of it i gotta tell you is about votes

02:04:31.440 i have to tell you these illegal immigrants are voting they're not just voting in chicago i bet

02:04:37.940 they're voting big time in california why else would these democrats fight so hard for them to

02:04:42.740 keep them in our country when it used to be the democratic party agreed that illegal immigrants 1.00

02:04:47.420 should be deported look i believe in the dreamers program and i believe there's hopefully the

02:04:52.620 Republicans and Democrats can come together at some point and find a way to address the needs

02:04:57.000 of these good people who came, you know, violated immigration laws and ought to stay. That's my 1.00

02:05:01.780 personal belief. A lot of those dreamers actually serve in our military. They work

02:05:05.640 and they're not criminals. But none of that's going to happen as long as our country is so

02:05:10.920 divided on the immigration issues and the Democrats refuse to do anything to address

02:05:15.660 all of the millions who came here when Biden unlocked the door and let them all in. There's

02:05:20.860 got to be like 15 million. I mean, they they would say the Democrats would say they can't vote if

02:05:24.760 they're not a citizen. Everyone has to provide proof of citizenship in order to get registered 0.73

02:05:31.020 to vote. That's what they still claim. Right. Well, it isn't true. And and this is the part

02:05:36.660 of the motivation behind fighting so hard for these illegal immigrants. It's a it's a voting

02:05:41.000 block for them. And look, Obama and I came out of Chicago politics at the same time.

02:05:46.880 This wasn't back then what it is now when it comes to the number of illegal immigrants.

02:05:52.060 But if you're asking me, do Democrats steal votes in places like Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Atlanta, and big cities across the country?

02:05:59.400 My answer is, is the Pope Catholic?

02:06:01.420 Obama knows that.

02:06:02.360 I know that.

02:06:03.900 I think both of us won our elections irrespective of how many people were doing that on our behalf.

02:06:08.520 But that's just how politics works in Chicago and works in big cities.

02:06:12.200 And I know exactly where they do it. And they do it in low income areas where they control polling places. And they do it through what used to be absentee ballots, which became bail-in ballots, which are absentee ballots on steroids. The fact that the Democrats refuse to vote for the Save America Act, show voter ID, proof of citizenship, you know, all of these things tell you there's got to be a reason why. It's because they vote them. And they vote the way they're told because they're unsophisticated voters and they can be controlled.

02:06:40.740 And the Democrat Party, I used to be a member. I still consider myself a Trumpocrat, Democrat for Trump. But the Democratic Party has really been about coalitions. And this is the new coalition of the Democrat Party, the new voting bloc, illegal immigrants. 0.68

02:06:54.080 how exactly would they do it because you know when you if you want an absentee ballot you do

02:07:00.980 at least where i live you do have to send in you know your driver's license something that would

02:07:04.620 prove that you that you your driver's license doesn't necessarily prove that you're uh an

02:07:09.980 american citizen but in any event how like how do they do it how do they get the illegals

02:07:14.100 ballots that they could fill out in the first place well i mean so they have organizations

02:07:21.820 these grassroots organizations that are immigrant rights groups and you know they're active in the

02:07:27.220 community they work closely with the local democratic political organizations and i believe

02:07:32.560 they you know coordinate efforts to go vote as many people as they possibly can and whatever

02:07:36.960 the you know tactics or subterfuge they use whether it's through a mail-in ballot or an

02:07:41.480 absentee ballot or whether it's just there at the polling place and somebody shows up

02:07:45.320 and is just voting somebody else's name who didn't show up which is a not uncommon practice

02:07:51.420 in places where Democrats control the whole polling place. The Republican judges in those

02:07:57.600 polling places are really Democrats dressed up as Republicans just for appearances sake.

02:08:02.840 So there's several ways to do it. Back in the day when I was starting, even before I got into

02:08:07.620 politics and I was a young lawyer, I'd worked as a prosecutor in the Cook County State Attorney's

02:08:11.220 office for then Cook County State Attorney Richard Daley. He was my boss. There were like 800 of us.

02:08:16.620 I was in the misdemeanor courts. I never met him until I actually got elected to office.

02:08:20.260 but back then I was after I'd left and gone into private practice and I met my wife her father was

02:08:25.840 a Chicago ward boss and and you know 50 60 percent of his district his ward was Latino voters they

02:08:33.060 were always very good to me and good to him and we were very close to the Latino community and still

02:08:37.160 are but among the ways you can get votes was you'd have a guy and I'm going to name him he he's a

02:08:43.680 was a good guy, a political activist, the way it was in Chicago. He would go into the homes of

02:08:50.540 immigrants and unregistered voters, get them registered, and then he would vote them absentee. 0.98

02:08:57.360 But then he would gather and collect and bundle the absentee ballots and put them in a freezer.

02:09:01.880 Because if you put them in a freezer and you freeze them, you can look and see how the person

02:09:07.560 voted. And if you don't like how they voted, you can spoil the ballot and go back and have them do

02:09:12.160 it a second time this is one example of one guy who was very active he got indicted uh in cook

02:09:17.460 county and i was asked by my father-in-law to go represent him at a grand jury and um it turned out

02:09:24.440 he wouldn't say i told him just don't say anything because that's a lawyer you're a lawyer you know

02:09:28.240 this don't say anything and he took literally took me took my advice wouldn't even say his name on

02:09:33.640 the record um nothing happened to him but that was a practice back then just imagine what they're

02:09:39.720 doing now with this whole block of tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of illegal

02:09:46.060 immigrants who are here and are just going to do what the local community leaders are asking them 0.71

02:09:50.840 to do because they're being helped in other ways. That's how I think they're doing it. And I believe

02:09:56.440 it's happening largely in places like in sanctuary cities. And that's why they're being given

02:10:02.980 sanctuary, which in my opinion, seems to be so unconstitutional and so unlawful that you'd have

02:10:08.720 a place that basically invites people from other countries that break into our country,

02:10:12.140 come to our city, and we'll protect you. That's the new Democratic Party today. That's what

02:10:16.240 they're saying. And too many of these people who come are good people. Most of them are good

02:10:20.740 people. They're coming for an opportunity to work. But they've been misled by the Democrats.

02:10:24.520 We've invited them in to come in, and they believe that they'll be protected in these

02:10:28.060 sanctuary cities, which they are, and then they won't be found out. But the American people have

02:10:33.020 woken up, and we have a problem that cannot be sustained, because how can you possibly sustain

02:10:37.800 15 million people who came into our country illegally and burdened the taxpayers and then 1.00

02:10:43.180 take resources away from people, Americans who truly need it, like underprivileged communities,

02:10:47.920 the black community, for example, the Democrats say they're poor, but they're not.

02:10:51.980 I'm sorry if they're nice people. I'm sorry if a lot of them are nice people and just want a

02:10:55.520 better life. If we have even one Sheridan Gorman, it's not worth it. It's not worth it. They come

02:11:01.360 at too high a price because for every 10 you let in who just want to improve their lives,

02:11:04.940 you get a Jose Medina Medina. And the next thing you know, poor Sheridan has nothing.

02:11:10.460 Her future has ended. Her family will be hurting forever. And for what? For what? That's really

02:11:17.080 the question you're asking. You have a theory for what? And it makes no, there's no redeeming value

02:11:22.680 to what that man brought into the United States, none whatsoever. It's a wonderful thing to see

02:11:28.760 you. I hope you come back on when your book hits in August. Thanks. I appreciate that. I look

02:11:33.200 forward to it. It's nice to see you. It's been a couple of years, hasn't it? I know. Yeah. But

02:11:37.620 I really enjoyed our talk when you got out of the pokey. So thanks for coming on and talking about 0.88

02:11:42.560 it. Well, Steve, look up the episode number so we can tell them that what that is. See you soon,

02:11:46.220 Rod. There's, there's a lot, there's a lot more to go on and I'm going to end the show now because

02:11:52.660 I want to get to let Emily do the after show and folks can call in and so on. But I just want to

02:11:57.180 tell you it's episode 274. If you want to listen to the long form interview between yours truly

02:12:03.180 in Rod Blagojevich. It's really good, 274. It talks all about his life in prison and like,

02:12:07.800 did he join a gang? How did he stay protected? And was he violated? We went there. We went

02:12:12.740 everywhere. And he was great. In New York City, today, there is a piece about an 83-year-old

02:12:20.500 veteran who was shoved under the New York City subway tracks days ago, and he's just died

02:12:26.820 from his injuries. An 83-year-old U.S. Air Force veteran randomly shoved onto the subway tracks by

02:12:34.400 an illegal on the Upper East Side, and now grandfather Richard Williams is dead. He succumbed

02:12:42.800 to his injuries after being pushed by another man waiting for a train at the Lexington Avenue

02:12:49.160 63rd Street station on March 8th. Just, you know, just FYI, whatever. Lex and 63rd is a very nice

02:12:57.580 part of town. You know, it's not like a sketchy part where you might think, oh God, don't get

02:13:03.840 down on the subway. No, it's like completely smack dab in the middle of the business district.

02:13:07.980 It's not far away from where Bernie Madoff used to have his offices. And this guy is standing,

02:13:13.020 this 83-year-old man who has fought in war for the United States of America. There are pictures

02:13:19.840 of him, quite a few I've seen now, of him wearing his dog tags. He was clearly really proud of his

02:13:24.820 military service, and he lived to tell about it, only to be killed by some thug illegal down 0.99

02:13:33.380 on the subway tracks. The alleged attacker was from Honduras. Look at this absolute scumbag. 1.00

02:13:43.020 Byron Hernandez, 34. 1.00

02:13:45.700 He was arrested March 10th.

02:13:47.340 His charge is now upgraded to murder

02:13:49.120 now that poor Richard has died.

02:13:52.900 And you can see video,

02:13:54.140 the video does not show Byron actually,

02:13:57.820 it does, but they haven't released this piece of it,

02:14:00.480 actually throwing Richard onto the tracks,

02:14:02.720 but he does.

02:14:03.220 And you can see that in the video,

02:14:04.680 it shows him leering toward the tracks

02:14:06.640 after shoving the victims.

02:14:08.620 So you can sort of see here,

02:14:10.180 yeah you can see there's the perpetrator the accused perpetrator kind of lingering on the

02:14:17.240 tracks after he has shoved richard down on the tracks and then another man he shoved helped

02:14:23.320 richard get back up get back up so he lived through the attack but as i say died a couple

02:14:29.780 of weeks later prosecutors had said that williams richard williams was brain dead and his daughter

02:14:35.540 Debbie told the New York Post he was not likely to pull through, they could see. And it's been

02:14:40.420 declared a homicide, of course. Another man named John Pena was also shoved under the tracks,

02:14:45.540 age 30. And he's the one who heroically helped pull Williams back on the platform, but to no

02:14:50.900 avail. He's died. He has now died. For what? Why? Why do we have to deal with this guy? He,

02:14:59.760 this guy Hernandez, was a serial criminal. I mean, you knew this was coming. Serial criminal,

02:15:04.840 lengthy rap sheet, at least 15 charges, including aggravated assault, possession of a weapon,

02:15:12.300 domestic violence, and so on, according to DHS. He had been deported from the United States

02:15:18.380 four times, but kept returning to the country illegally, again, per DHS. How many times do

02:15:26.260 we have to have this story? How many times? That's Kate Steinle's murderer's story too. 0.99

02:15:31.800 deported five times. Long rap sheet. We don't know. The guy, you know, accused of killing Sheridan

02:15:41.840 was allegedly only arrested for shoplifting back in 2023. Didn't even show up. No penalty. It's

02:15:49.380 fine. We let them in. We don't follow up on where they are. We let them commit crime with impunity.

02:15:56.560 We don't, in most of these jurisdictions, cooperate with ICE to at least, if not going to prosecute

02:16:00.900 to make sure he at least gets the boot out of the country. And we set them loose. We send out

02:16:06.580 our young girls like lambs to the slaughter, to be fucking slaughtered by these thug illegals. 1.00

02:16:12.980 And then you have places like the student newspaper, as Rod pointed out, at Loyola, 1.00

02:16:18.700 which is called the Loyola Phoenix, writing articles apologizing for calling them illegal

02:16:24.840 immigrants. I mean, spend a day on the Megyn Kelly show. They're illegal thug pigs. That's 1.00

02:16:30.860 what they are. Does that solve it for you, Phoenix? Who the hell's worried about their feelings?

02:16:37.220 Sheridan Gorman is dead. And you're worried about hurting the feelings of this illegal?

02:16:43.480 You're worried about offending him by calling him not even an illegal alien, but an illegal

02:16:47.420 immigrant? They write that no human's existence is illegal. And we quickly changed our wording

02:16:53.420 to reflect that. It is a reference to one's immigration status, not to one's humanity.

02:17:00.860 They know that. It's more important to them to kowtow to the woke reading their woke, low circulation newspaper to pat themselves on the back.

02:17:13.520 You're part of the problem. They say, oh, we took the headline down immediately.

02:17:17.380 It didn't reflect the most important elements in the story, took it down moments later to prevent any further harm to affected community members.

02:17:24.160 Who? You have a bunch of thug illegals in your community? No normal Hispanic person is going to be offended by the use of the word illegal. Is that what you mean, Hispanics? No normal Asian, no normal African is going to be offended by the term illegal. 0.95

02:17:40.580 What are you assuming about the people reading your newspaper?

02:17:45.100 They go on to say that language was provided by DHS, but it doesn't align with the Associated Press style, nor with the values of this newspaper.

02:17:56.620 We acknowledge the harm such language can cause and the power and importance of the words we choose to use.

02:18:02.500 Yes, the words are important, but not in the way you think.

02:18:06.080 We deeply regret these errors.

02:18:07.720 Do you deeply regret the murder of Sheridan Gorman, your colleague on campus at Loyola? 1.00

02:18:14.620 Where is your long piece apologizing to her family for these disgusting policies and the woke assholes like yourselves that enabled them? 0.99

02:18:24.660 That's what you should be sorry about. 0.99

02:18:28.480 There's just like, don't don't go there.

02:18:30.800 I'm thinking about a young girl I know, she's finishing now, but who got into some great law schools, great law schools.

02:18:38.200 And at the last minute, she got into the University of Chicago, and I said, you should go there.

02:18:41.380 It's number one.

02:18:42.280 It's amazing.

02:18:43.000 Chicago's awesome.

02:18:44.280 And thank God she's okay.

02:18:45.780 But I just think now, if she were to ask me now, I'd say, you shouldn't go there.

02:18:50.980 I did even at the time tell her it was dangerous.

02:18:53.220 I mean, Chicago has gotten a lot more dangerous since I was there, thanks to policies like these.

02:18:57.080 Mayor Daley's no longer there.

02:18:57.980 He was a Democrat, but he was a normal Democrat. 0.50

02:19:00.180 that, you know, probably corrupt,

02:19:02.200 but really good at his job

02:19:03.460 and cared about things like crime and cleanliness.

02:19:08.200 Now, I would not want my kids going there.

02:19:10.900 Like, I'd be worried sick.

02:19:13.240 And I feel so bad for Sheridan's mom, Jessica,

02:19:16.660 who I feel like I know.

02:19:17.540 She was part of our Megyn Kelly Show community.

02:19:19.720 She came to the tour, as I mentioned,

02:19:21.880 and I'm sure she was thrilled she got into Loyola,

02:19:24.720 a Jesuit university,

02:19:26.120 and thought this will be great for her.

02:19:28.040 She's a girl of faith.

02:19:29.240 The family is too. And you pray God to look over her. And we all as parents convince ourselves

02:19:36.000 that that's going to work. We have to convince ourselves that that's going to work. And when it

02:19:44.300 doesn't, you have a reconciliation to work through. You know, you have a lot to work through. And I'm

02:19:49.740 sure the family's going through that right now. Anyway, it's not just Chicago is my point. This

02:19:54.620 is new york it's it's happened in so many places you know lake and riley that illegal came from

02:20:00.200 new york and they we shipped him down to georgia on the taxpayer dime um it's every month we have

02:20:08.300 some young woman or man but often it's these young women cut short in the prime of their lives

02:20:13.820 thanks to these thugs who never should have been here this guy should have been venezuela's problem 0.86

02:20:19.400 not ours tomorrow we'll talk about this and much much more when jesse kelly joins us

02:20:24.560 Hope you'll join us then. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 26, 2026

Major Revelations in Savannah Guthrie's First Interview, and Possible Gang Connection to Sheridan Gorman Murder, with Gov. Rod Blagojevich ｜ Ep. 1282

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