The Megyn Kelly Show - October 12, 2020


Mark Cuban on Family, Social Justice and NBA Ratings ｜ Ep. 9


Episode Stats

Length

50 minutes

Words per Minute

205.34761

Word Count

10,391

Sentence Count

769

Misogynist Sentences

6

Hate Speech Sentences

12


Summary

Mark Cuban is a billionaire, self-made guy, made his money in the tech industry, and now owns the Dallas Mavericks. He s outspoken on virtually all issues, and you ll hear some of that today. It got tense at times, but I think it was fair.


Transcript

00:00:00.440 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
00:00:11.780 Hey everybody, it's Megyn Kelly and welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.
00:00:15.100 Today, Mark Cuban. He's a billionaire, self-made guy, made his money in the tech industry, and now owns the Dallas Mavericks.
00:00:23.740 He's outspoken on virtually all issues, and you'll hear some of that today.
00:00:28.700 It got tense at times. It was a tough interview, but I think it was fair, and I give him a lot of credit for engaging,
00:00:35.340 because most guys in his position, certainly in the NBA, would never have deigned to take the time.
00:00:41.020 So my hat is off to him. Keep that in mind as you hear how this went.
00:00:45.620 But first, let me tell you about Legacy Box.
00:00:48.260 Do you have a bunch of old pictures sitting around your house, or old VHS tapes, like me, if you were born back in the 1970s or 80s?
00:00:55.980 And you want to look at that stuff. There's a reason you kept it, but you can't, right?
00:01:00.380 Because no one's got a VHS player anymore, and no one looks at photo albums anymore.
00:01:04.620 Well, that's where Legacy Box comes in.
00:01:07.040 This is an ingenious mail-in service that will help you get all those irreplaceable moments converted to DVD or digital.
00:01:15.280 You know how you feel when you watch your home movies?
00:01:17.240 You get transported back to your great childhood memories, or maybe even your wedding.
00:01:22.080 But when was the last time you actually watched yours, right?
00:01:25.120 I loved being able to send in my old family stuff.
00:01:28.160 I took my husband's slides from his family trips, and getting them back in digital form makes it possible that you'll actually look at them.
00:01:35.940 And my kids could look at them, and it's super easy from start to finish.
00:01:39.100 You just pack up the stuff, you send it, their team will digitize it by hand, and then you enjoy.
00:01:44.760 These guys are the largest digitizer of home movies and photos.
00:01:47.840 You can trust them.
00:01:49.060 Over 850,000 families have done so.
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00:01:56.840 So Legacy Box is the name of the company.
00:01:58.540 They will help bring new life to your old media by unlocking those trapped family memories and putting them in a modern digital format that's easy to use.
00:02:05.840 Go to LegacyBox.com slash MK to get an incredible 40% off your first order.
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00:02:17.260 You'll get the box.
00:02:18.800 You send it in when you're ready.
00:02:19.740 And you go to LegacyBox.com slash MK to save 40% while supplies last.
00:02:26.740 Mark Cuban, thank you so much for being here.
00:02:29.780 Thanks for having me, Megan.
00:02:31.060 All right.
00:02:31.580 So how does a middle-class kid from Pittsburgh wind up with $4 billion?
00:02:35.200 A lot of hard work and a lot of luck.
00:02:40.180 You know, I started off as that kid in school growing up in Scott Township initially that just had every little side hustle that you ever could imagine from selling baseball cards to my friends to selling garbage bags to hustling candy to buying and selling stamps at collector shows.
00:02:59.920 You name it.
00:03:00.600 If there is a hustle, I did it.
00:03:01.900 So you were the kid who was mowing everybody's lawn and delivering the newspapers and always came home from the fair with change in your pocket.
00:03:10.820 Yeah, pretty much.
00:03:11.920 I wasn't a lawnmower, but I was a driveway shoveler.
00:03:14.660 It's funny.
00:03:16.760 My Nana used to give my brother, my sister, and me five bucks each to go down to the little carnival down the road because we would spend August with her in the summers just north of New York City.
00:03:27.020 And she used to say, Megan would come home with just the $5 gone, wouldn't want any more.
00:03:33.420 Your sister would come back asking for change after two minutes and your brother would come home with change in his pockets.
00:03:38.380 You know, like my so my sister needed more money.
00:03:40.600 My brother always had change and I wound up breaking even.
00:03:43.960 And honestly, that's how we wound up to this day.
00:03:46.220 You know, that's how you learn, right?
00:03:47.580 That's where you develop all your initial habits.
00:03:50.140 You know, I try to tell my kids how you do anything is how you do everything, you know, and it's really important to get good habits that can lead to success as you get older.
00:03:58.180 It's really true.
00:03:58.720 Was there a pivotal moment when you were a little kid that that drove you to be this successful, this this much this determined?
00:04:06.800 I don't know if there was any one.
00:04:08.080 I think it's just how my parents raised me.
00:04:09.580 I mean, my dad did upholstery on cars and, you know, always wanted to be an entrepreneur, but never could quite get there.
00:04:14.940 Never had a college degree.
00:04:16.120 My mom, you know, did odd jobs, never went to college.
00:04:18.960 Um, and so they always didn't push me, but really supported me and encouraged me to try anything.
00:04:24.940 I remember I would buy and sell stamps.
00:04:27.540 And one time I wanted to go to New York and my dad had to take me, right?
00:04:31.260 Cause I was 15, 16 years old.
00:04:34.000 And, um, he was like, okay, I have no idea what I'm doing.
00:04:37.920 And I would take him around.
00:04:39.100 And what I would do is at these stamp shows, I would go to from one stamp collector's booth to another where they would have a dealer who would be selling these different stamps.
00:04:48.480 And I would look for the inefficiencies.
00:04:50.220 So how one stamp dealer would gauge a stamp or rate a stamp would be different than another one would.
00:04:55.980 So I'd buy one that I thought was undervalued and go to the next booth and sell it to somebody who I thought would value it higher.
00:05:02.120 And my dad was like, I have no clue what I just saw, but you made money.
00:05:07.060 So keep doing it.
00:05:08.220 And so I think I realized then that, um, I was going to have to make this on my own and I was going to have to figure it out on my own and that I had the ability to do it.
00:05:15.920 You were kind of, you were a little nerd who went on to become King nerd.
00:05:19.980 Yeah.
00:05:20.380 I wasn't so little, but yeah, I was.
00:05:23.680 Well, it's funny because when I see somebody like you, who's got as much success in their back pocket as you do, I always think, oh God, they probably went to Harvard or Yale or Stanford.
00:05:32.180 You know, like none of us can get into those schools without lifetime family connections and so on.
00:05:36.280 And then it turns out you went to Indiana, which I, I love that.
00:05:40.500 So, you know, for all the people who are feeling bad about themselves right now, because they, they didn't go to these top tier schools or the parents who are worried their kids aren't going to get into them.
00:05:48.880 What do they need to know about going to a school like Indiana?
00:05:52.320 I mean, look, it's, you know, I went to IU, um, which is, ends up being one of the best decisions I've ever made because I saw a list of the top 10 business schools and I picked out the cheapest one.
00:06:00.740 And I'd never been to the campus and that's how I picked Indiana. Um, and in terms of what people need to know, it's, it's less the school that you go to and more of the effort that you make.
00:06:11.160 To me, I learned, I picked up so much knowledge about business because I was really geared towards taking business classes and challenging myself.
00:06:18.920 So I would say, you know, don't worry about the school you go to, make it one that you can afford.
00:06:23.480 You don't want to saddle yourself with a ton of debt these days.
00:06:25.720 And two, when you get there, you know, you don't have to know exactly what you're going to be when you grow up, try to challenge yourself and take as many different types of classes because, you know, I ended up being a tech guy and I took one technology class in college and, you know, I didn't really come to understand that I had a good aptitude for tech till after college.
00:06:44.660 But what I really did pick up is all the language of business, accounting and marketing and finance and sales.
00:06:50.600 And I think even more importantly, Megan, I learned how to learn.
00:06:53.240 You know, the only constant is change.
00:06:55.640 And so I think Indiana really gave me a toolkit to say, you know, new things are always going to be coming at me.
00:07:01.640 And I learned how to learn new things.
00:07:04.120 And I learned that, you know, putting an effort in to read and absorb information however I could really gave me a competitive advantage.
00:07:12.440 And those are the skills I think you should look for.
00:07:14.540 And none of that really applies to which school you select.
00:07:19.000 So in a nutshell, what is the business?
00:07:21.920 What does the business do that you sold for all that money?
00:07:25.180 Oh, OK.
00:07:25.720 So the month that so I first let me take a step back.
00:07:29.020 My first job out of college when I got down to it, well, actually, my first job in Dallas when I came down here, I got a job as a bartender at night.
00:07:36.680 I was living six guys in a three bedroom apartment and then got a job during the day selling software.
00:07:41.400 And that's really what got me into computers and technology.
00:07:43.980 And so I was there for like nine months before I got fired.
00:07:48.420 And then I started a company called Micro Solutions where I just said, you know what?
00:07:52.640 Nobody really knows all this new computer stuff.
00:07:55.020 If I teach myself, then I'm going to have an edge.
00:07:57.880 And I went and found a customer who would put the money up front for a software package they wanted to buy.
00:08:03.240 Told them if it didn't work, I would walk their dog, you know, clean their floors, you know, whatever it took to make them happy.
00:08:08.900 And then built that up to a company, built that up to about 30 million in sales and 80 employees.
00:08:15.800 And we sold it to H&R Block when I was about 30.
00:08:18.980 And then I took a couple of years off.
00:08:21.320 And in 1994, early 95, a buddy of mine from Indiana, Todd Wagner, came to me and said, you know, there's this new Internet thing and you're the technology and networking geek.
00:08:32.360 There's got to be a way that we can use this Internet thing to listen to Indiana sports over the Internet.
00:08:37.940 And I'm like, OK, let me see if we can make this work.
00:08:41.700 And the first thing I did was look to see if there was anybody else doing anything like that.
00:08:46.180 And the answer was no.
00:08:46.900 There were some academic things going on, but no businesses.
00:08:50.180 And so I bought a Packard Bell computer, set it up in the second bedroom of my house and try, you know, learn how to do Internet broadcasting is what we called it at the time.
00:08:59.460 And we started a company called AudioNet.
00:09:01.020 And we built that up to where we had, I don't know, 100 radio stations and thousands of broadcasts on there.
00:09:09.880 And then we changed it to broadcast.com and added video.
00:09:14.080 1998, we went public.
00:09:15.880 And effectively, we were the YouTube of the early Internet.
00:09:19.520 I mean, we just dominated streaming.
00:09:21.360 We went public in 1998, July.
00:09:23.200 And it was the biggest IPO in the history of the stock market at the time.
00:09:28.800 And then a year later, we sold to Yahoo for $5.7 billion in stock.
00:09:33.320 How old were you then?
00:09:35.020 I was just turned 40.
00:09:38.840 Wow.
00:09:39.180 I take that back about to turn 40.
00:09:40.460 So I heard you tell the story about when you saw the stock go up and you realized you were making $6 billion and that you didn't have any clothes on.
00:09:49.680 You were sitting in a seat looking at your computer.
00:09:52.860 Kind of like I am right now.
00:09:53.880 No, just kidding.
00:09:55.400 Me too.
00:09:56.960 Yeah, right?
00:09:57.600 See?
00:09:58.360 You know, sometimes you just got to hang loose.
00:10:02.120 So what – I was just wondering, like, you know, when you – I realize it's stock and stock, but like, you know, when you get that money, at some point you actually get that money.
00:10:09.720 And like, is that like direct deposit?
00:10:13.080 How do you get that money?
00:10:16.100 So what happened was, you know, I had been – after I sold my first company, Micro Solutions, I traded stocks and did really well.
00:10:22.700 And that helped me – allowed me to finance audio and broadcast.com and own enough to really do well when we sold it.
00:10:30.380 And so when we got it, we got stock.
00:10:32.900 And so what happens was they literally, you know, put, you know, 1.9 million shares – I forget the number of shares that we got, 19 million or something like that – shares of Yahoo stock.
00:10:43.080 But because I traded stocks before, I knew that there was risk to the internet bubble, you know, that these stocks were not going to go up forever.
00:10:49.760 And honestly, I already – I had a B next to my name at that point and thought to myself, how much more did I need?
00:10:55.760 So I did something called a caller where I sold calls and bought puts to protect my downside.
00:11:01.860 And that's how I ended up converting all that stock into cash.
00:11:05.500 And as it turns out, when the internet stock market crashed, you know, I was protected and a lot of our employees, you know, we had 330 employees when we sold and 300 of them became paper millionaires.
00:11:16.940 And we got – we convinced a lot of them to hedge like I did and they protected themselves as well.
00:11:21.960 But at that point in time, once we collared it, which – and by the way, it ended up being called one of the top 10 trades on Wall Street of all time.
00:11:29.740 But when I collared it and as those collars let off, that's how I got cash in my account.
00:11:35.140 So it wasn't just like one big wire transfer.
00:11:36.880 Okay, I understood like every third sentence of what you just said.
00:11:39.420 But I get the basic message.
00:11:40.900 I get that you hedged and so you protected yourself and your employees so that when the bubble burst, you guys were still in the black.
00:11:47.900 Yeah, I got it.
00:11:48.580 Okay.
00:11:49.280 So I wanted to ask you as somebody who came from, you know, middle class background and winds up, as you say, with the B after your name, is there any downside to having all that dough?
00:11:59.620 No.
00:12:01.660 Absolutely not.
00:12:02.260 Nothing at all?
00:12:02.900 Here's what I thought you would say.
00:12:04.260 Having to wonder whether people coming into your life after you've got the B after your name are sincerely interested in you, the man.
00:12:12.880 Yeah, but you know what?
00:12:13.500 There's hassles in life no matter how much money you have.
00:12:16.100 You know, the friends I have now are my friends from high school and college and my rugby team and, you know, guys – you know, my roommates from Dallas when I first got to Dallas.
00:12:27.140 They're all still my good friends.
00:12:29.540 And, yeah, I've added some friends along the way.
00:12:31.080 But, you know, I wasn't looking for new friends.
00:12:34.960 What about women?
00:12:35.840 Like when you were dating – I know you're married now.
00:12:38.280 Yeah, but when you were dating, did you worry about that?
00:12:40.620 Not so much worry because it was pretty obvious.
00:12:43.480 You know, when you start to date somebody or go out with somebody and the first two things they said was, you know, I really love to just do charity work and travel.
00:12:52.260 Those are kind of my life goals.
00:12:54.440 You kind of knew.
00:12:57.040 You know, I have a good friend who I used to work with at Jones Day and she was this, like, hard-ass lawyer.
00:13:01.880 She was great and went to great schools and all this stuff.
00:13:04.820 And she fell in love with a guy who also worked at Jones Day and he was also super brilliant.
00:13:10.060 On their first date, they'd been sort of eyeballing each other for a while and they go out to dinner on their first date.
00:13:15.020 And they're hitting it off.
00:13:16.200 They're both having a great time.
00:13:17.620 And she says to him at one point during the dinner, I'm going to get up and go to the bathroom.
00:13:22.400 And if you're still here when I get back, I'll know that none of the three things I'm about to tell you are deal breakers.
00:13:28.160 And if you're gone, no harm done.
00:13:30.120 We can stay friends.
00:13:31.500 The three things are, I smoke.
00:13:34.240 I'm going to quit.
00:13:35.260 But right now, I'm still struggling with it and I smoke.
00:13:38.140 The second thing is, I have terrible credit.
00:13:41.200 I'm going to fix it, but it's not that I don't pay my bills.
00:13:44.620 She said it's just I pay them more on like a quarterly basis.
00:13:47.620 She said, the third thing is, I know you know me as this high powered lawyer at Jones Day, but what I really want to do is be a stay at home mom.
00:13:56.340 And she got up.
00:13:58.160 She went to the restroom.
00:13:59.420 She came back.
00:14:00.460 He was still there.
00:14:01.240 They've been married ever since.
00:14:02.220 They have two daughters.
00:14:03.400 Right.
00:14:03.900 I love that story.
00:14:05.120 That's like owning a story.
00:14:06.480 That's owning who you are and what perceptions are of you just sort of disabusing up front.
00:14:12.140 Exactly right.
00:14:12.780 I mean, and you got to be honest in, you know, and during that dating period, I did a lot more having fun than truly dating.
00:14:20.380 Um, but what does that mean?
00:14:22.680 Was that a euphemism for action?
00:14:25.260 Well, yeah, it just meant that I didn't have a lot of long term girlfriends in that in between period.
00:14:30.300 Um, but when I met my wife, I was playing basketball at the gym and, and she was on the bike and one of my basketball buddies dated her sister.
00:14:41.120 And he was like, you see that girl there?
00:14:43.160 You want to meet her?
00:14:43.920 I'm like, hell yeah.
00:14:44.840 And we've been together pretty much ever since with a, with a couple of breaks in there, but been married 18 years, three weeks ago.
00:14:52.480 Oh, that's great.
00:14:53.800 So I got really lucky.
00:14:54.860 Do you worry about, I know you do because everybody who makes that kind of dough does, uh, even I I'm nowhere near your level, but even just having achieved success in my own life coming from a middle-class background, I worry about it.
00:15:06.900 Raising kids who are entitled, you know, who don't have the drive to work hard.
00:15:12.160 Yeah.
00:15:12.680 After their health, that is the first and foremost thing that scares the hell out of me.
00:15:16.820 Literally Megan, it's something I think about every day, something my wife and I talk about all the time, you know, and it's something I talk to them about.
00:15:23.960 I mean, now they're 11, 14 and 17.
00:15:25.860 My youngest son, Jake, middle Alyssa and Otis is Alexis.
00:15:29.320 And, you know, with kids, they all have their own unique personality.
00:15:31.860 So you have to kind of tailor the message to each one of them.
00:15:34.760 But I make it really clear that there's no money train coming for them.
00:15:39.600 They're going to have to make their own way and figure out how to earn a living, um, that I'd never let them fail, you know, so that they really, you know, couldn't.
00:15:49.480 So they, they had bad struggles, but I was going to allow them to struggle.
00:15:54.040 If you know, if that makes sense.
00:15:55.960 Well, how do you do that though?
00:15:57.200 Right.
00:15:57.360 Because I think about it now, I never had a desire just to be rich.
00:16:01.040 I just wanted to work hard and be successful.
00:16:03.320 That was the drive I had and it worked for me, but I, I don't know.
00:16:07.360 I look around, I say to the kids, you know, you, you like the way we live.
00:16:10.080 You better work hard.
00:16:11.020 Cause you know, I always say that my kids will say, are we rich?
00:16:14.780 And I'll say, dad and I are doing just fine.
00:16:17.180 You got nothing.
00:16:18.380 Yeah.
00:16:18.840 I say the same thing.
00:16:20.100 Right.
00:16:20.300 But like the truth is I will leave them something.
00:16:23.560 I, I, I don't want them to have, to not have anything.
00:16:26.260 And I don't know about these billionaires.
00:16:27.780 Like Bill Gates were like, I'm giving it all away.
00:16:30.300 My kids are getting nothing.
00:16:31.280 That seems weird to me too.
00:16:32.580 So I take, I take a little bit different approach than those guys.
00:16:35.400 One, because, you know, as I said, I'm most concerned about their health.
00:16:38.960 And so I really tried to keep a decent amount of liquidity just in case, God forbid, you
00:16:43.540 know, knock on wood, something goes wrong with their health and you have to step in and
00:16:47.100 it's something unique and there's not a readily available treatment.
00:16:50.060 Then that's when it's got to be all guns blazing.
00:16:52.240 And so that's kind of my save for a rainy day as it applies to their health.
00:16:56.120 Um, after that, it's just trying to connect with them and set an example, you know, particularly
00:17:01.380 how, how I try to treat people when we go out and, you know, they see me interact and
00:17:05.920 always being nice, always being cordial, always being respectful.
00:17:10.360 You know, they, they see me pick on, you know, the president and politicians and referees
00:17:15.380 at Mavs games.
00:17:16.240 And we have discussions about that, but generally, you know, I really try to set an example and
00:17:21.380 really communicate to them that, you know, your education and how you do to school
00:17:25.620 is going to be the door opener because each of you are different.
00:17:29.080 And if you want to blaze your own path, you're going to have to, you know, set your own goals
00:17:33.340 and do your best to achieve them.
00:17:35.040 Yeah.
00:17:35.700 Well, it sounds like you're setting a good example.
00:17:37.440 And by the way, you're allowed to try all those people.
00:17:39.220 They're in the arena.
00:17:39.960 You put yourself in the arena.
00:17:41.080 You know, you're going to take a punch.
00:17:42.400 Exactly.
00:17:43.020 Yeah.
00:17:43.260 Including me, right?
00:17:43.900 I got to take the punches too.
00:17:45.100 Yeah, absolutely.
00:17:45.780 So you, you wind up buying the Dallas Mavericks and I warn you up front.
00:17:48.960 I know very little about sports.
00:17:50.220 I only know sports to the extent they, they veer over into my news lane.
00:17:53.980 So you buy this basketball team.
00:17:55.940 Why?
00:17:57.820 My wife and I used to, we're season ticket holders and we used to go to every game and
00:18:01.560 they were awful.
00:18:02.480 You didn't like your seats?
00:18:04.020 Yeah.
00:18:04.520 Well, no, my seats were fine.
00:18:05.740 Right.
00:18:07.360 But, and I was right after we sold the broadcast.com to Yahoo, I was at the opening night of
00:18:13.960 the 99, 2000 season.
00:18:15.580 It wasn't a sellout.
00:18:16.840 I mean, it's opening night.
00:18:17.640 We're undefeated.
00:18:18.220 I was excited, but it didn't seem like there was any energy in the arena.
00:18:22.080 And I thought, you know, I could do such a better job than this.
00:18:24.880 And then it finally dawned on me that, Hey, I can afford to put my money where my mouth
00:18:28.660 is.
00:18:29.040 And so I reached out to a former player, Mark Aguirre, who knew the then owner, Russ
00:18:33.160 Bro jr.
00:18:34.000 They connected us and, or he connected us and, you know, it took just a few weeks and the
00:18:38.780 deal got done.
00:18:39.520 And so, you know, from initial thought around November 1st, we closed the deal January 4th
00:18:45.000 or January 8th or something right around there.
00:18:46.540 What do you love about it?
00:18:48.220 I love, I mean, I'm a basketball junkie.
00:18:50.880 And so there's a couple of things I love.
00:18:52.760 One, you know, I learned very quickly that I may be responsible for the finances, but
00:18:57.520 all of North Texas truly owns the Dallas Mavericks.
00:19:00.220 It's so different than any other industry.
00:19:02.880 You know, any other business I've ever been involved with, I never got requests, you know,
00:19:07.220 Hey, my son has cancer.
00:19:08.880 Can you get a player to come visit us or call us or talk to us?
00:19:12.180 Will you come visit, you know, or, you know, unfortunately my, my son or daughter passed
00:19:17.420 away from cancer.
00:19:18.960 Would you mind if, you know, Luka Doncic signed a jersey so we can bury him in it because he
00:19:25.680 was his favorite player.
00:19:26.800 Just heartbreaking things like that that you don't see in any other industry.
00:19:29.960 So that connection to community is first and foremost.
00:19:33.520 And, you know, just the, the challenge of it all there's every season there's, you know,
00:19:38.140 30 teams, 29 losers and one winner.
00:19:40.420 And I've only been that, you know, walk away final winner one time.
00:19:43.720 So, you know, I love the challenge of it and I love the basketball side of it.
00:19:49.120 I mean, I get to go to basically my own arena before a home game and get out there and shoot
00:19:54.700 baskets.
00:19:55.760 And to me as a basketball junkie growing up, that's one of the coolest things ever.
00:19:59.880 And that's really how I clear my head.
00:20:01.700 Like even today, you know, I can go down to the practice court and if I'm stressed about
00:20:06.240 something or want to just clear my head or think about something, I'll just get up shots.
00:20:10.300 I'll get up there and shoot baskets.
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00:21:38.740 And now back to Mark Cuban.
00:21:41.360 My husband put on The Last Dance, you know, the documentary about Michael Jordan, and we
00:21:46.400 watched that.
00:21:47.200 And I loved Michael Jordan.
00:21:48.140 I lived in Chicago during a lot of those Bulls years.
00:21:51.060 So I saw that team play and wound up getting to know Dennis Rodman a little bit later in
00:21:55.920 life, which is a whole other story.
00:21:56.700 He was my roommate for a little bit, which is another story.
00:21:59.060 No, he was not.
00:21:59.580 Yes, he was.
00:22:00.760 How did that happen?
00:22:01.500 And when I bought the Mavs my first year, we hadn't been to the playoffs in 10 years
00:22:05.820 and had a, or 16 years and had a losing record for like the last 10 or something like that.
00:22:10.300 And I was trying to do anything to win.
00:22:12.120 And so we signed him for what ended up being a total of 12 days.
00:22:15.980 And because he had had a suspended driver's license, he couldn't drive.
00:22:20.540 And so I put him in the guest house of my house until the NBA told me that it was against
00:22:25.880 the rules and he couldn't do it.
00:22:27.300 So D-Rod and I have been friends ever since.
00:22:29.940 He's, he's such an interesting guy.
00:22:32.640 I asked him, you know, like how many times have you been arrested?
00:22:35.380 It was like over 80.
00:22:36.960 And I'm like, okay, okay.
00:22:38.640 And, but he's, he's kind of a sweet soul.
00:22:41.320 And also the Henry Kissinger of our time.
00:22:45.660 Yes.
00:22:46.540 You know, instead of ping pong diplomacy, you know, you got North Korean basketball diplomacy,
00:22:51.520 but yeah, D-Rod's got a great heart.
00:22:53.360 Right.
00:22:53.480 Who would have thought Dennis Rodman could be a critical player in, in forging maybe
00:22:58.300 a better relationship between the United States and North Korea?
00:23:01.800 Nobody.
00:23:03.780 Absolutely nobody.
00:23:05.080 But you're right.
00:23:05.520 He's, he's got a great heart and I really liked Dennis.
00:23:07.920 Well, so I loved Michael Jordan, like, like everyone in the world.
00:23:10.840 Uh, and I loved that, that the last dance, I thought it was so well done and he was so
00:23:15.200 interesting, but I wanted to ask you, is one of the things they highlight in that documentary
00:23:19.560 is that he never got political, even though there was pressure to do so.
00:23:23.700 And he just thought, I'm not going to do that because I know my fans might not agree with
00:23:28.320 me on whatever issue you want me to push or whatever.
00:23:32.160 Republicans buy sneakers too.
00:23:33.620 Yep.
00:23:33.980 Yeah.
00:23:34.200 Republicans buy sneakers too.
00:23:35.280 Exactly.
00:23:35.560 And, and, you know, I, I like that because politics has just taken over.
00:23:40.420 It's like, you can't turn on the Emmys or the Oscars or the sports games.
00:23:43.580 It's like, it's everywhere.
00:23:44.960 And as you know, it's, it's so ubiquitous just in the news.
00:23:49.060 It's really just hard to escape it now.
00:23:51.280 And that's not the way the NBA is going.
00:23:53.660 It seems like it's gotten very political, but what, from what I've seen again, and I'm
00:23:58.600 sort of outside your lane, but there's the big BLM logo on the basketball court down there
00:24:03.700 for the finals and that the guys are wearing social justice messages on their jerseys and
00:24:08.480 they've been having some protests, like the night Jacob Blake got shot, they, they didn't
00:24:12.880 play.
00:24:13.720 And, and so what do you think?
00:24:15.140 I mean, do you think that it's appropriate to take a side on issues that are so charged?
00:24:20.240 Well, first let's go back, right?
00:24:21.620 Let's go back to Michael Jordan's era.
00:24:23.340 Just because Michael wasn't a participant didn't mean that players weren't activists back
00:24:28.300 then as well.
00:24:29.400 Right.
00:24:29.680 I mean, going back to the extent we see now.
00:24:32.220 Well, I just think, remember, there's a different media environment.
00:24:36.160 There's, there's a huge difference between media availability and the Michael Jordan days.
00:24:40.880 That was just the beginning of cable Fox news for only existed for half of Michael's
00:24:46.320 career, right?
00:24:47.200 The last three years of Michael's career, there was no social media.
00:24:50.560 The internet was in its infancy.
00:24:52.080 So there really weren't the mechanisms to, to really convey to people messages.
00:24:56.440 You know, you had to go through all the gatekeepers.
00:24:58.520 So it wasn't that players weren't active.
00:25:00.620 They were in their own ways.
00:25:02.900 But now we're in a different social media environment and things progressed.
00:25:08.540 You know, politics and sports have always gone together.
00:25:12.180 You know, Muhammad Ali was the champion of the world when he was Cassius Clay.
00:25:15.340 And then, you know, he was ostracized when he became Muhammad Ali.
00:25:18.820 And he was not even allowed to fight because, you know, he did not want to go to Vietnam.
00:25:23.760 And he had a lot of commentary there.
00:25:25.340 You know, we can go to the Olympics, 1980, when we withdrew from, from the Olympics.
00:25:30.240 So, you know, while I get your point, I don't agree that sports and politics have been
00:25:36.240 disassociated.
00:25:37.080 And this is something new.
00:25:38.460 It's certainly not.
00:25:39.940 Now that's on the court, though.
00:25:41.340 Not on the court.
00:25:42.120 I mean, listen, I'm close enough, related close enough to remember there was never a huge
00:25:45.580 logo on a divisive issue on the basketball court during the finals.
00:25:48.820 Okay, well, let's talk about that.
00:25:50.120 So you wear a pink ribbon to support breast cancer.
00:25:52.520 That's one thing, putting BLM in the middle of the court when it's not supported by virtually
00:25:56.660 any Republican in the country.
00:25:58.300 It's less than 20 percent of Republicans support the group.
00:26:00.920 Okay, well, let's talk about that.
00:26:01.280 Because that's a different topic.
00:26:01.840 So that's a different topic.
00:26:02.560 So, okay.
00:26:03.100 So first there, when you said the group, what group are you talking about?
00:26:07.540 Black Lives Matter, capital B, capital L, capital L.
00:26:10.020 No, okay.
00:26:10.560 But who is that group?
00:26:13.680 Because it's not a group.
00:26:14.420 It's a group founded by Marxists who want to dismantle the nuclear family and defund the police.
00:26:20.260 No, first, that's incorrect.
00:26:21.140 So first of all-
00:26:22.040 No, it's 100% correct.
00:26:23.600 Okay, so let's go there.
00:26:24.560 Okay.
00:26:25.040 So first of all, let's talk in terms of who we support.
00:26:27.720 There's blacklivesmatter.com.
00:26:30.320 And that's where you go to get the information about the organization.
00:26:34.100 Those are the people who started the hashtag.
00:26:36.860 That's all they did.
00:26:38.120 If we were supporting blacklivesmatter.com, don't you think, Megan, we would have been
00:26:42.980 smart enough to put the dot com on the court along with Black Lives Matter?
00:26:47.360 Come on.
00:26:47.780 Now you're splitting hairs.
00:26:49.240 I mean-
00:26:49.540 No, I'm not.
00:26:49.720 I'm not, no.
00:26:50.360 So let's go, no.
00:26:51.000 So what BLM are you supporting?
00:26:53.180 We're supporting the movement.
00:26:54.760 It's really a distributed movement across the country to try to end racism, to bring
00:27:00.560 awareness to social justice issues.
00:27:03.100 And if you, and I've done this, right?
00:27:04.720 Talk to people who go that are at Black Lives Matter rallies and ask them who the three founders
00:27:10.500 are.
00:27:11.000 They don't have any idea.
00:27:12.220 And if we were supportive of those three founders, don't you think we would have had
00:27:16.160 one of them on an NBA broadcast to talk about?
00:27:19.040 You know, you know, as well as I do that the main takeaway on BLM, the main push, this is
00:27:23.440 what they say their single issue, their biggest issue is whenever you see a representative from
00:27:27.640 the group, an organizer, people who go to the protests, it's one thing, defund the police.
00:27:33.120 No, that's crazy.
00:27:34.960 Okay.
00:27:35.360 So that's not crazy.
00:27:36.740 Trust me.
00:27:37.260 I've been following every, every news cycle.
00:27:39.680 I've marched with them.
00:27:40.700 Yep.
00:27:41.020 That's the whole thing, Megan.
00:27:41.980 You just answered the question.
00:27:43.400 You're following the news cycles, right?
00:27:46.200 And where you get your source of news determines, you know, pretty much the perspective that people
00:27:52.300 are going to have on this.
00:27:53.440 I can tell you from being in NBA meetings, right?
00:27:55.660 I can tell you from being part of the discussions.
00:27:57.740 I can tell you from talking to players.
00:27:59.580 So when I speak, I'm speaking for the NBA as an owner, you know, and so I can tell you,
00:28:05.380 it's been very clear that we're supportive of the movement.
00:28:08.840 We're supportive of, of, um, trying to end racism.
00:28:13.200 We're supportive of police reform, but you've never, ever heard us talk about Marxism.
00:28:20.540 Okay, fine.
00:28:21.520 You don't need to endorse Marxism, but you've never seen us.
00:28:24.720 No, but Mark, to pretend, but to pretend that blacklivesmatter.com or otherwise is not about
00:28:31.960 defunding the police is to be dishonest.
00:28:34.840 It is, it is about defunding.
00:28:35.980 It absolutely is.
00:28:37.360 And the basketball players who have spoken about this have made clear that they support
00:28:41.500 that.
00:28:41.860 I mean, they've talked about how they want to defund and dismantle the police force.
00:28:45.360 Individual players can have their opinion, right?
00:28:48.240 And that's fine.
00:28:49.200 Right.
00:28:50.180 But me as a governor in the NBA and having been in all those meetings, I can tell you
00:28:57.340 that while we are interested in police reform, yes.
00:29:00.840 And we have had discussions about police reform.
00:29:03.280 Yes.
00:29:03.760 We have never talked about defunding the police, defunding the police.
00:29:07.340 And they're, they are an extreme different ends.
00:29:09.660 But BLM has and devotes itself to it.
00:29:12.460 No, you're, you're wrong, Megan, because BLM, the hashtag, BLM, the hashtag, the founders
00:29:17.300 is completely different than BLM, the movement.
00:29:20.680 Mark, people don't understand this distinction you're trying to make.
00:29:24.440 Well, that's, that's, again, you're right.
00:29:25.860 That's why they find this logo alienating.
00:29:29.440 It's not that they don't support lowercase BLM.
00:29:32.060 It's that what this group has become with the protests in the streets that have turned into
00:29:36.620 riots, with bothering people at their dinner tables, making them raise a fist and say Black
00:29:41.460 Lives Matter.
00:29:42.340 And with this push to defund the police, which has already worked in some cities in New York,
00:29:46.320 they took a billion bucks away from the police force to the detriment of the inner city,
00:29:50.120 to the women and the children and the men who are who are in the inner city.
00:29:53.820 So now we're talking about something different now.
00:29:56.400 OK, I agree with controversial.
00:29:58.120 Right.
00:29:58.640 So first of all, you know, when we talk about defunding the police, that's one extreme.
00:30:04.640 Disrupting the police is a completely and trying to reform the police is a completely
00:30:09.080 different issue.
00:30:10.440 OK, so now you're going to have to put footnotes on the BLM on your court.
00:30:14.080 See footnote 47 for exactly which number two.
00:30:18.000 So you're raising a very good issue that in terms of controlling the narrative, it's been
00:30:22.300 awful.
00:30:22.980 And the reason it's been awful is because there is no leadership.
00:30:26.440 There is no one speaking for BLM.
00:30:28.920 This is a conversation I've had with our players.
00:30:31.000 There is true because the co-founder of Black Lives Matter.
00:30:33.920 Patrice Cullors was was on TV and has openly said, and I quote, we should abolish law enforcement.
00:30:39.220 Where was she on TV and when, Megan?
00:30:40.780 How many times?
00:30:41.920 She's been out there a few times.
00:30:43.160 And her co-founder has said the same.
00:30:44.840 And half the organizers and those go on television and say the same.
00:30:47.520 Most often when you see when most of the time when you see those, it's the same interview
00:30:50.800 from 2015 or 2016 as being rebroadcast.
00:30:55.440 No, they're not they're not hiding this goal, Mark.
00:30:57.500 I mean, the city of Minneapolis voted to defund the police and now they've already regretted it
00:31:02.100 and backtracked on it.
00:31:03.920 OK, so what I'm telling you is in terms of the NBA's involvement, right, whatever the
00:31:10.200 founders of the hashtag.
00:31:11.320 And again, you have to distinguish between the hashtag and the movement.
00:31:14.340 And to you, it may be a distinction without a difference.
00:31:16.240 But I'm telling you to the people who are marching and the people that are involved in
00:31:19.800 the NBA, it's not.
00:31:21.160 According to Gallup, in the latest poll, 81 percent of Black Americans want the same
00:31:26.300 or more police in their neighborhoods.
00:31:28.340 That poll was taken a month ago.
00:31:29.800 You're conflating two different things, Megan.
00:31:32.040 You're talking about defunding the police and do they want more police support?
00:31:35.960 That's completely different than how the players responded to the Jacob Blake shooting.
00:31:40.500 No, no, I understand.
00:31:41.740 I understand the point you're making.
00:31:43.000 But what I'm trying to tell you is that that people have been fed a media narrative about
00:31:48.080 police hunting Black men.
00:31:50.540 That is a lie.
00:31:51.860 Okay, so maybe they have.
00:31:54.040 Okay, so maybe there's a media narrative, okay, depending on where you get your media.
00:31:57.940 But when I sit and I talk to African-American males in particular, right, and I didn't have
00:32:04.080 this understanding until I sat and talked to our players and their families and other
00:32:07.600 people around them, right?
00:32:09.340 And, you know, they said, Mark, you know, you have a daughter about that just started driving
00:32:15.160 at the time.
00:32:16.200 Did you have to have the talk with them?
00:32:18.100 And I'm like, what's the talk?
00:32:19.580 And they start to tell you about, well, one, here's what you have to do if you get pulled
00:32:24.900 over by the police.
00:32:26.040 You never told your son to obey when pulled over by cops?
00:32:29.820 No, that's not it.
00:32:31.000 That's you're not letting me finish.
00:32:32.240 That's obvious.
00:32:33.740 Of course, they tell him to do everything that he's supposed to do.
00:32:36.820 But also, when you get pulled over, make sure you pull over in a lighted area if you
00:32:40.900 at all can.
00:32:41.920 If you have somebody else in the car with a phone, make sure they're videotaping it if
00:32:46.260 you at all can.
00:32:47.220 If you can call somebody so people can listen in to what's going on, please do if you all
00:32:52.340 can.
00:32:52.740 If you can automate something on your phone to do a quick dial to make all this happen,
00:32:57.420 please do if you can.
00:32:58.300 That's part one.
00:32:59.320 Part two, when you go into a retail establishment, don't be surprised if people start eyeballing
00:33:04.860 you and following you simply because you're black.
00:33:07.460 You could be dressed the exact same way as a white individual walking down the same aisle
00:33:12.080 and there's still a greater chance that they're going to watch you and you just have to be
00:33:16.520 able to deal with it and not get mad.
00:33:18.020 If you're running in a neighborhood, please do have somebody with you because when people
00:33:23.760 see a black male running through a neighborhood, they get concerned and there's a good chance
00:33:28.320 you're going to have the police called on you.
00:33:30.300 So don't be surprised.
00:33:31.620 So you're better off running or jogging or walking or walking your dog with another person
00:33:38.200 because you are at risk.
00:33:40.140 Mark, have you ever had to have these conversations with your children?
00:33:43.680 The answer is no.
00:33:44.700 And that's the difference.
00:33:46.160 And so when they see Jacob Blake shot, they're not looking to make Jacob Blake a martyr.
00:33:51.520 Jacob Blake just happened to be the person that was just one more brick in the wall that
00:33:55.480 just cemented where the African-Americans feel that they are.
00:33:58.960 That's the problem.
00:34:00.080 That's why I support it.
00:34:01.060 That's why the NBA supports them.
00:34:02.520 And the points you're making, I don't dispute any of those.
00:34:05.200 I think you can argue about whether, I mean, young women also get followed around stores
00:34:10.460 a lot because we're the ones who are likely to steal.
00:34:13.420 I mean, they think young women who can't afford the dresses are going to take them and shove
00:34:16.540 them in their purse.
00:34:17.200 So it doesn't just happen based on skin color.
00:34:20.540 But I'm not disputing that.
00:34:22.020 But what's been force fed to the American public is the lie that cops are hunting black
00:34:25.960 men.
00:34:28.560 More with Mark Cuban in a minute.
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00:35:39.940 And now, back to Mark Cuban.
00:35:44.060 Your audience is fleeing.
00:35:46.980 They object to the politicization of their game.
00:35:50.980 And you guys have suffered, have you not?
00:35:53.060 I mean, the ratings, what I saw is that the finals are underway.
00:35:56.680 Let me just finish the question.
00:35:58.000 Okay, go ahead.
00:35:58.540 Show ahead.
00:35:58.880 Lowest finals opener ever.
00:36:00.640 Game two, another new low.
00:36:01.740 Game three, down an unprecedented 58% since last year.
00:36:05.680 This is during a marquee matchup, right?
00:36:07.340 The Lakers and the Heat.
00:36:08.200 I know enough to know that they were huge.
00:36:09.980 And last year, they had some team from Canada.
00:36:11.460 And that matchup was crushing what we're seeing this year.
00:36:14.100 And the sports analysts say, this is a disaster.
00:36:16.820 It's an unprecedented viewership collapse for you guys.
00:36:20.140 So first, okay, my turn.
00:36:23.680 Okay, so first, I really love this conversation.
00:36:25.840 I love going back and forth like this.
00:36:27.220 So I don't want any of this to be anything but total respect.
00:36:29.920 And I'm really enjoying this.
00:36:31.140 Same, same.
00:36:31.560 I appreciate that.
00:36:32.760 Okay, so number one, who are the, when you talk about, you're putting these things out
00:36:38.380 after just having said how bad the media was by using extreme examples
00:36:42.600 and picking sources that may not be reflective of the reality.
00:36:47.900 So you're just, what you just said was wrong in terms of crime.
00:36:51.860 You're doing the exact same thing with this.
00:36:53.560 So I just want to make this point.
00:36:55.060 So when you say the expert.
00:36:56.300 I'm telling you, this is the accusation that your ratings are down because you got too political.
00:37:00.900 This is the accusation, but you're not saying who's making the accusation because
00:37:04.080 Well, that last line of disaster I got from Clay Travis of Outkick.
00:37:07.640 Of course you did, right?
00:37:09.000 Now, what is, Trey, I'm not even going to talk about it.
00:37:11.280 The numbers are what the numbers are, Mark.
00:37:13.040 The numbers are what the numbers are.
00:37:14.040 I mean, was it not the lowest finals opener ever?
00:37:16.660 Yes.
00:37:17.780 And it was a new low for game two and an unprecedented low for game three.
00:37:21.000 I'm going to tell you a quick story.
00:37:22.820 So there's this old probability thing where people use this example of during World War II,
00:37:33.520 they brought in this statistical analysis guy to help them reduce the number of planes that were shot down.
00:37:39.460 And so what he did was look at all the planes that returned from flying over the Pacific and look at all those who had been shot.
00:37:47.900 And all the people in the military said, look, all the planes that were shot returned.
00:37:53.240 All the bullet holes are right here.
00:37:55.360 So we've got to make that area where the bullet holes are stronger.
00:37:58.840 And he said, no, because it's already strong enough.
00:38:02.020 That's why the planes returned.
00:38:03.520 You've got to look to see what shot them down.
00:38:05.980 Now, you're using these examples and it's analogous here because you're using these examples.
00:38:11.160 I'm asking you about the ratings.
00:38:11.780 Let me finish.
00:38:13.940 You're not looking outside the NBA ratings to see what else is happening in media.
00:38:20.300 You're not using this.
00:38:21.380 You're not correlating this.
00:38:22.600 Are there some other ratings you want to point me to?
00:38:24.940 Sure.
00:38:25.540 Okay.
00:38:26.020 Here's one.
00:38:26.540 This is a group of people that are incredibly woke, right?
00:38:29.540 Horse racing.
00:38:30.540 Horses are the most woke species on the planet.
00:38:33.280 We all know that, right?
00:38:34.700 Horse racing is down significantly.
00:38:37.160 The triple crown, the numbers are down 40, 50, 60% from last year because horses are the
00:38:43.280 most woke beasts on the planet, right?
00:38:47.840 Because it must be politics that horse racing is down.
00:38:50.100 I know you want to compare yourself to horse racing right now, but the big indicators they
00:38:54.320 look at are football and baseball, and they haven't taken anywhere near the hit that basketball
00:39:01.440 has.
00:39:01.700 Well, football is always done really well, right?
00:39:03.440 What about hockey?
00:39:05.400 Again, do you think hockey is analogous to basketball more than football and baseball?
00:39:09.540 Hockey had their finals.
00:39:11.060 What about regular TV, broadcast television?
00:39:15.220 You're trying to dodge.
00:39:16.380 You're trying.
00:39:17.200 No, I'm not trying to dodge.
00:39:18.220 I'm trying to convey the point to you.
00:39:19.440 Why do you think your ratings are so low?
00:39:22.440 I think up until the finals.
00:39:24.100 I think our finals disappointed.
00:39:25.540 I'll agree with that.
00:39:26.860 And I don't think it has anything to do with politics.
00:39:29.280 I just think we don't have the matchup and we don't have the storylines and did do a good
00:39:32.840 job promoting it.
00:39:33.900 But be that as it may, right?
00:39:35.460 Prior to the finals, our numbers were good.
00:39:37.620 All things considered, our numbers were fine in the demographic that we shoot for.
00:39:43.580 Remember, the only point of ratings is to help advertisers buy advertising, correct?
00:39:47.700 Yes.
00:39:49.560 That's why ratings exist.
00:39:51.740 So within that realm, we were winning our night every single night.
00:39:58.120 And that's despite having four games a day on some days and even more on others, starting
00:40:03.920 our games at one in the afternoon when nobody's watching.
00:40:06.480 Despite all that, we were winning not only in viewers, but also in terms of the 18 to 49
00:40:13.020 demographic.
00:40:14.080 That's our demographic.
00:40:15.440 But here's the NBA challenge in terms of media.
00:40:18.140 Up until the finals, and again, I'll admit that the finals have been somewhat disappointing.
00:40:21.640 Up until the finals, the only way to get an NBA game was on cable or satellite.
00:40:25.440 All of our games are on ESPN or TNT.
00:40:28.580 Our core audience, our fastest growing audience is younger demographic.
00:40:33.760 They court cut.
00:40:34.620 They don't have cable.
00:40:37.220 They don't have satellite.
00:40:38.940 There was just a morning, was it morning consult?
00:40:41.360 I forget who came out that said among Gen Z and young millennials, the NBA is just behind
00:40:47.840 the NFL with 47 to 49% of fans saying it's their most, it's their favorite sport.
00:40:54.460 And so we're right there.
00:40:55.840 But the problem is that our largest growing viewership base and the one we want to be our
00:41:01.700 viewership base, the youngest viewership base, Gen Z, can't watch us during our games or
00:41:06.700 doesn't have regular TV to have our games.
00:41:08.740 But that's a fundamental problem.
00:41:10.820 They can watch the finals.
00:41:11.560 If they have broadcast television available to them.
00:41:15.120 Right.
00:41:15.560 And I'm not saying that's our reason for it.
00:41:17.120 I'm not making an excuse.
00:41:18.080 It's lower than I expect them to, wanted them to be.
00:41:21.080 Right.
00:41:21.380 But at the same time, the rest of the playoffs, we did really well.
00:41:24.900 But our problem, I would just suggest to you, I would just say, I'm telling you the whole,
00:41:29.080 the whole go, the whole thing about politics is nonsense.
00:41:33.300 Okay.
00:41:33.700 I mean, time will tell.
00:41:35.160 Let me move on.
00:41:35.800 Because I have to ask you about China.
00:41:37.840 The NBA is under all sorts of fire for taking money from China.
00:41:41.820 And China, what I'm told is that the NBA's revenue from China is around 500 million bucks
00:41:47.960 at least.
00:41:48.580 So it's a lot of money that the Chinese put into basketball, into the players and endorsements
00:41:53.500 and so on.
00:41:54.620 And my question for you is whether the NBA needs to get more, not less vocal about this.
00:42:00.700 There was some guy who sent out one tweet.
00:42:03.960 He was the GM for the Houston Rockets back in October of 19 saying, simply fight for
00:42:08.280 freedom, stand with Hong Kong.
00:42:10.040 And all hell broke loose.
00:42:11.760 The Chinese Basketball Association suspended all cooperation with the team.
00:42:15.220 The Chinese stopped state TV, stopped suspended airing of the games and so on.
00:42:20.360 The NBA commissioner had to come out with his tail between his legs and said, we have
00:42:23.400 great respect for China and its history.
00:42:25.280 It's all regrettable.
00:42:26.520 Then people freaked out in response to that and so on.
00:42:29.740 And now people are looking at the NBA.
00:42:30.440 With his tail between his legs?
00:42:31.820 With his tail between his legs?
00:42:33.500 Megan, why can't you just ask me a straight up question?
00:42:35.880 I'm trying to summarize it for our viewers, Mark.
00:42:38.780 Yeah, but Megan, every single topic we've tried to discuss that I've just tried.
00:42:42.100 Look, you get to come into this interview prepared with your quotes.
00:42:45.480 I don't get to come in prepared.
00:42:45.860 This is your industry.
00:42:47.460 Yeah, but Megan, that's what I'm talking about.
00:42:49.680 I don't care what industry we're talking about.
00:42:51.620 Every single topic that you brought up, there's been one pejorative aspect to it in terms of
00:42:56.480 how you present the question.
00:42:58.120 Look, I get it.
00:42:59.160 I'll give you the objective statement from Adam Silver, the NBA commissioner.
00:43:02.580 I'm just telling you, people freaked out after he said this.
00:43:05.800 I take no position on it right here.
00:43:08.560 Oh, a lot of people.
00:43:09.360 I mean, I'll give you an example.
00:43:10.340 A lot of people.
00:43:10.680 So Adam Silver, let me give you the-
00:43:11.880 People say-
00:43:12.520 Hold on.
00:43:12.980 We can quote President Trump.
00:43:14.700 People say-
00:43:15.740 Hold on.
00:43:16.640 Okay.
00:43:17.040 Adam Silver, the NBA commissioner, came out and said,
00:43:19.800 We recognize that Daryl Morey, he was the Rockets GM, Morey's views, quote, have deeply
00:43:25.240 offended our friends and fans in China, which is regrettable.
00:43:29.440 We have great respect for the history and culture of China and hope that sports and the
00:43:34.860 NBA can be used as a unifying force to bridge cultural divides.
00:43:38.160 In response to which, many people, here's just one example, Florida Senator Rick Scott
00:43:42.860 came out and said,
00:43:44.080 The NBA is more interested in money than in human rights.
00:43:47.600 They are kowtowing to Beijing and it's shameful.
00:43:50.420 So you tell me whether the NBA needs to get more vocal in condemning what we're now seeing
00:43:57.380 there, which is an ethnic cleansing of a minority Muslim group known as the Uyghurs.
00:44:03.380 One million or more are being held against their will right now.
00:44:06.720 Men, women, and children facing torture, forced labor, physical and sex abuse, coercive
00:44:11.840 population control, forced abortion, forced sterilizations.
00:44:15.000 And the question remains, why won't you and the NBA explicitly condemn that?
00:44:22.420 So first, we pay attention.
00:44:28.280 I personally, okay, let's just talk about me.
00:44:30.420 I personally put a priority on domestic issues, right?
00:44:34.200 When it comes to human rights, I'm against all human rights violations around the world.
00:44:38.620 China is not the only country.
00:44:40.240 China is not the only country with human rights violations.
00:44:42.580 Right, but including the ones in China, you're against their human rights violations?
00:44:45.820 I'm against all human rights violations.
00:44:47.640 Including China, Mark?
00:44:49.160 Yes, including China.
00:44:50.240 Any human rights violations anywhere are wrong, okay?
00:44:54.200 Okay.
00:44:54.500 Now, what do we do about them?
00:44:55.880 That's the problem, right?
00:44:57.580 So the first thing you do, you say, okay, there's people from China trying to escape that.
00:45:01.860 There's people from Turkey.
00:45:02.740 There's people from Africa all trying to escape and receive asylum here in the United States.
00:45:07.780 Would you agree with them?
00:45:09.040 Would you agree with that?
00:45:10.140 Look, you, according to you-
00:45:11.560 I'm asking you the question.
00:45:12.360 I'm asking you the question.
00:45:13.800 Would you agree that the question, there are people who are trying to escape human rights
00:45:17.860 violations around the world and gain asylum as refugees here in the United States of America?
00:45:22.840 Would you agree with that?
00:45:23.960 Yes, that's true.
00:45:25.240 Okay.
00:45:25.660 Would you agree that it's probably a good idea that we should allow more of them to come
00:45:29.700 so they can escape these human rights issues?
00:45:31.440 You're not going to put this back on me.
00:45:32.820 This is about you, the NBA, and China.
00:45:33.300 I'm not putting anything on you.
00:45:34.360 I'm just asking you a question.
00:45:35.660 I'm just asking you a question.
00:45:36.820 No, we're talking about human rights violations.
00:45:37.660 No, I'm explaining to my audience that what's happening now is you're dodging because you're uncomfortable
00:45:41.140 because the NBA will not condemn China and it's-
00:45:44.800 I just told you I'm against human rights violations everywhere, including China.
00:45:47.860 No, no, no.
00:45:47.880 Well, let's get specific.
00:45:48.940 Do you condemn the genocide that's going on right now in China?
00:45:51.480 I condemn all human rights violations.
00:45:54.120 Yes.
00:45:54.320 Why can't you be specific?
00:45:55.020 Yes, because the way proclamations work in this country, the minute you say them anywhere,
00:46:00.920 you're going to use this as a headline.
00:46:02.720 Cuban says this, this, and this.
00:46:03.960 What's wrong with that headline?
00:46:05.120 Cuban condemns ethnic cleansing in China.
00:46:06.860 Because I've got to deal with the troll bites then.
00:46:08.560 I've got to deal with the troll bites.
00:46:09.860 Now, what's more important to ask is what actions that I think are important to deal
00:46:13.520 with these issues.
00:46:14.440 You want proclamations, but you're not-
00:46:16.400 When I try to talk about actions, you ignore them and say I'm evading the questions.
00:46:19.880 I have been told silence is violence, and my question for you is-
00:46:23.920 Okay, what I'm telling you is action is-
00:46:24.740 Why have you been so silent on this?
00:46:27.140 I'm telling you action is change.
00:46:29.220 So what are you doing about this?
00:46:30.860 So what would-
00:46:31.440 I just tried to explain it to you, right?
00:46:33.340 I'm working, I've been involved trying to increase the number of slots available for
00:46:37.760 asylum seekers here in the United States.
00:46:40.580 Right now, if someone were to escape any country that has human rights violations and
00:46:45.580 get to this country, they can't get a job.
00:46:48.400 Come on.
00:46:48.540 You know why they can't get a job?
00:46:49.480 That's not a response to what's happening in China.
00:46:51.720 Why would the NBA take $500 million plus from a country that is engaging in ethnic cleansing?
00:47:00.480 Why would-
00:47:01.280 So basically, you're saying that nobody should do business with China ever.
00:47:06.120 Why don't you just answer my question?
00:47:07.640 No, Megan, I'm just trying to get to the root of it.
00:47:10.820 So-
00:47:10.900 Why would the NBA do that?
00:47:12.140 You're the one who said-
00:47:13.920 Because they are a customer.
00:47:14.700 They are a customer of ours.
00:47:16.720 And guess what, Megan?
00:47:17.500 I'm okay with doing business with China.
00:47:19.180 You know, I wish I could solve all the world's problems, Megan.
00:47:22.100 I'm sure you do too.
00:47:23.580 But we can't.
00:47:24.920 And so we have to pick all battles.
00:47:26.740 And while you'd like to get proclamation so you can create a clip that says, look what
00:47:30.800 I got Mark to say.
00:47:32.180 You don't want to deal with the actual action item.
00:47:34.540 You might think silence is violence, but action gets changed.
00:47:38.200 Right?
00:47:38.580 And so when I start to talk about creating a lot of silence-
00:47:40.860 I mean, that's-
00:47:41.700 You wouldn't let me say it.
00:47:43.980 You stopped me every single time and said I was changing the subject.
00:47:46.480 Providing for asylum for those seeking it does absolutely nothing to help the widows.
00:47:51.640 Oh, okay.
00:47:52.300 So first of all, you don't know what you're talking about.
00:47:54.600 You don't know what you're talking about.
00:47:56.000 Because there are people-
00:47:57.160 You know how many people are on the waiting list for visas and asylum in China right now
00:48:00.860 trying to get here but can't?
00:48:03.360 More than 200,000.
00:48:05.240 And you know how I know that?
00:48:07.420 Because it's not a published figure.
00:48:08.900 Because I went to the State Department and contributed the resources to figure it out
00:48:13.140 and find out what's going on.
00:48:14.500 Because when people are able to get out, we don't give them a chance to come here.
00:48:19.380 And when they are able to get here, we don't give them a chance to work because they're
00:48:24.400 not allowed to work when they get here.
00:48:27.060 And so they go into the underground economy.
00:48:29.280 So all these people crying for human rights, helping the people, when we find a way to
00:48:34.380 help them, we stop them.
00:48:36.260 We don't help them.
00:48:38.360 And so don't give me all the nonsense about-
00:48:41.080 I got it.
00:48:41.540 I have to ask you before we go, are you going to take these problems on from the executive
00:48:45.100 office of the White House someday?
00:48:46.500 No, I'm not going to run for president.
00:48:48.040 Nope.
00:48:48.360 You're not?
00:48:49.480 Nope.
00:48:50.200 I've never heard you rule it out so explicitly.
00:48:52.220 No, I have.
00:48:52.720 Yeah, I have many times.
00:48:53.600 Right.
00:48:54.040 When the only reason I considered it because of Donald Trump, right?
00:48:58.420 Prior to that, I was apolitical, you know, and I'll go back to being apolitical when
00:49:02.500 he's hopefully out of office.
00:49:04.140 Thanks for being here.
00:49:05.040 All the best.
00:49:05.880 I appreciate it, Megan.
00:49:12.480 Well, that was interesting.
00:49:15.000 Spirited.
00:49:15.800 Interesting.
00:49:17.080 Surprising.
00:49:18.000 Listen, a couple of things.
00:49:19.300 Look, he is actually right that helping asylum seekers from China, it is a good thing.
00:49:24.900 It is.
00:49:25.360 And they certainly can't stay where they are or go back home if they're here.
00:49:28.540 But it doesn't do anything for the million people who are already in China's forced labor
00:49:32.720 camps right now.
00:49:33.540 And that's the ethical challenge of getting rich off of China's money.
00:49:37.000 Also, in case, by the way, you were wondering whether those terrible ratings really were
00:49:40.920 caused by the NBA going political, well, the NBA commissioner just announced that next
00:49:46.140 year they will not be allowing messages on the floor or, it seems, on the jerseys.
00:49:50.540 He said he got the message from fans who turn on the TV and, quote, just want to watch a
00:49:56.400 basketball game.
00:49:57.720 Right?
00:49:58.000 Can't you relate to that?
00:49:58.880 So, good.
00:49:59.660 Good for them.
00:50:01.280 Ratings speak.
00:50:02.260 They have the ultimate power on these guys.
00:50:03.940 That's the truth of it.
00:50:05.920 And our thanks again to Mark for the spicy exchange.
00:50:09.100 I can't think of another team owner who would have had the guts for that conversation.
00:50:13.640 Right?
00:50:13.840 He deserves credit for that.
00:50:14.960 And we respect it and appreciate it.
00:50:17.180 Hope you enjoyed the show.
00:50:18.140 Tune in later this week for Alan Dershowitz.
00:50:21.280 I'm really looking forward to that.
00:50:23.420 See ya.
00:50:24.500 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.
00:50:26.820 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.
00:50:31.700 The Megyn Kelly Show is a Devil May Care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.