The Megyn Kelly Show - Media's ＂Don't Say Gay＂ Misinformation, and Durham Probe Reality, with Dave Rubin and Paul Sperry ｜ Ep. 278

00:00:00.580 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:12.020 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday.

00:00:17.620 Oh, we made it, right? You're having that feeling like we made it.

00:00:21.140 So, so happy to have with me today, Dave Rubin, my pal and host of The Rubin Report.

00:00:26.440 Dave, great to have you back. How are you?

00:00:27.760 So, Megyn, I'm doing well. You know, before we get going here on, you know, the serious issues of the day that I know we have to cover,

00:00:35.200 I have to tell you that right now I'm missing a very important appointment to be with you because my dog, Clyde,

00:00:41.820 who when you came to my house, jumped on you, almost knocked you down.

00:00:46.140 You love dogs. You didn't mind. You were cool with it.

00:00:48.920 But he is being trained downstairs right now. I'm supposed to be in the training, but I said, no, Clyde, you're going to have to figure this out on your own.

00:00:56.020 I am with Megyn Kelly right now so that next time you come here, he will not maul you.

00:01:01.300 Let me tell you something. I'm so jealous because I have Thunder. She's a good girl. She's going to be three.

00:01:07.200 And then she was so good. We said, wouldn't two be even better?

00:01:11.620 And along came little Strudwick, same dog, you know, their English labs.

00:01:16.900 He's a red. She's a yellow. And he is a delightful, adorable, loving menace.

00:01:24.000 He's such a menace. Oh, my God. He's so bad, Dave. So bad.

00:01:28.920 And we sent him away to military camp. He had to go to military school and he came back and he was amazing for a week.

00:01:35.500 Oh, and then he lost it after a week. Totally lost it.

00:01:40.880 I thought about doing it. We discussed it. Are we just going to send him away for a while?

00:01:44.460 But we're going to try to do it here. He's three also. And he's been great for two years.

00:01:49.140 But something about, as you know, we moved to Florida, something about the lizards out on the streets.

00:01:53.740 I think there's so many lizards out here and iguanas and peacocks and squirrels and also it's just he's on edge.

00:02:00.020 So we're just we're going to work through it. It's going to be OK.

00:02:02.360 What do you do to make him not not do that?

00:02:06.240 And my my audience knows we got our dog trainer was like, you got to put the shock collar on.

00:02:10.960 And I'm like, I would I can't shock my little.

00:02:13.760 And then as soon as he went over to eat my other dog's crap, I was like,

00:02:16.520 we haven't we haven't done the shock collar, but we do have some treats that kind of take the edge off.

00:02:26.240 I'm not going to say what's in the treats. This is a family friendly show, but they're doing the trick.

00:02:30.900 Oh, my God. We have to talk offline about about those.

00:02:34.280 I'm totally legit. I got them a peco. It's got like ashwagandha in it or something.

00:02:38.420 It's I want it. I want it right now. Well, yeah, in any event, let me tell you, my dog's lucky.

00:02:42.700 He's so cute. Very lucky. He's so cute. Otherwise, I don't know what I'd be doing beginning and no love from me every day.

00:02:50.220 I mean, literally every day there's something new. It's like and now he's taken out just to get off of this.

00:02:55.260 But like my my three kids will sit at the kitchen counter in the morning is the kind of counter where like they can have a stool that pulls up to it,

00:03:00.900 you know, like a kitchen island and they'll sit there and they eat their eggs or whatever.

00:03:04.560 The dog will literally jump up in between them.

00:03:07.420 He will he won't even go to the left or the right of them, which would be the easiest way.

00:03:11.200 Jump up on his hind legs and he will grab their eggs on toast right off of their plates.

00:03:17.800 It's it's the most rude thing. He's so rude.

00:03:21.620 Megan, dogs are animals. That's my main takeaway from the show today.

00:03:25.680 Dogs are animals.

00:03:27.540 They don't tell me if your guy maybe you could slip that one in as if it were yours since you're still on the pay clock and I'm not.

00:03:34.400 You know, I got nobody to call. Maybe you could just slip that one in like it's Clyde's issue and get back to me on what he says to do.

00:03:40.640 Oh, yes, yes. Clyde's been eating the kids' eggs off the table.

00:03:45.920 You don't have kids.

00:03:47.460 He's been he's been eating David's eggs.

00:03:50.220 The other Dave. It's Dave and Dave.

00:03:52.720 OK, so I have a challenge for you to kick things off.

00:03:56.380 Don't say.

00:03:58.500 You're going to do it right here.

00:04:01.000 Look, I'm here in Florida. 0.98

00:04:02.360 Florida, I've been told that if you even say the G word in the privacy of your own home, that Ron DeSantis is goons will burst through the door, put a black bag on your head, drag you out and bring you to the gulag. 1.00

00:04:16.680 This whole thing is so stupid. 1.00

00:04:18.680 I have no doubt that you're on the very short list of of people that have been covering it, honestly. 1.00

00:04:24.300 But this is like just the perfect example of what the left in the media does with absolutely everything.

00:04:30.940 They take something that is either nothing or really a pretty good bill, a pretty good bill, basically saying that if you're kindergarten to third grade, that teachers cannot talk to you about in essence about sex.

00:04:45.040 It's about gender identity and sexuality, but they can't talk to you about those things and that they certainly can't hide that conversation from the parent.

00:04:54.560 That is the crux of this bill.

00:04:56.900 The word gay is not in it.

00:04:58.560 It has nothing to do with homophobia or transphobia or anything else.

00:05:03.020 And the media has just run with this thing.

00:05:05.540 The fact that they call it the don't say gay bill and then everyone repeats it over and over and over again, that CNN brings on all of these people to talk about homophobia, suicide in kids.

00:05:17.660 Megan, you have you have young kids.

00:05:19.120 I know they're older than than first, second grade, but it's like, you know, I have a second grader.

00:05:23.760 Oh, you have a second grader.

00:05:24.640 All right.

00:05:24.860 So actually, I was just at my my seven year old niece's birthday party on Sunday.

00:05:30.480 We made slime.

00:05:31.740 You know, that's the thing that the kids are doing now.

00:05:33.420 They take, you know, about the slime.

00:05:34.820 My sister's not thrilled with the slime, but, you know, they take shaving cream and they color it and whatever.

00:05:39.820 These kids, the idea of sexuality at seven, seven years old or gender identity, the idea that anyone would be talking about it to them, whether it's a friend or whatever, but that a state employee should talk to them about it and then be able to hide that conversation.

00:05:58.160 Parents, it's crazy.

00:05:59.260 But the media just lies about everything, everything.

00:06:03.440 They are so like they're in full woe is me mode.

00:06:07.900 I'm looking for it here.

00:06:08.660 I'm talking about like how sad this is.

00:06:11.580 There was somebody on the House floor in Florida crying.

00:06:14.460 Is this soundbite five to my team crying about like, how could they do this?

00:06:18.760 And all what the bill says is it doesn't say don't say gay.

00:06:22.620 It says and I'll actually read it to the audience so that they can understand exactly what we're dealing with here.

00:06:26.580 It's not at all, of course, what the media is saying.

00:06:29.280 They say, among other things, not having to do with any of this, they say we're prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in certain grade levels.

00:06:40.700 And then it goes on to clarify classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade three or in a manner that's not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.

00:06:59.020 So you can't don't talk about sexual orientation or gender identity to K through third graders.

00:07:05.660 And beyond that, make sure the discussion is age appropriate.

00:07:09.520 Totally fine.

00:07:11.360 The way it's been represented.

00:07:12.600 Yes.

00:07:12.800 Soundbite five.

00:07:13.520 Did we confirm?

00:07:15.080 Play the one where the person's crying.

00:07:17.920 Oh, they're talking that crying.

00:07:19.500 I guess we don't have the one.

00:07:20.380 Well, let's take a listen to it.

00:07:21.480 Number five. 0.93

00:07:23.420 Do we really think that teachers are engineering students to become gay? 0.99

00:07:27.960 You can't teach gay. 1.00

00:07:30.480 Because we oppose the bill. 1.00

00:07:31.960 We're pedophiles. 0.98

00:07:33.360 School boards are not, in fact, conspiring to turn children gay. 0.98

00:07:37.940 Free state of Florida. 0.99

00:07:41.040 Not if you're gay. 1.00

00:07:43.440 Yeah, you're not free. 0.99

00:07:44.580 And you just moved there.

00:07:45.760 Why didn't they tell you that before you got there? 1.00

00:07:47.480 This is bullshit. 1.00

00:07:48.900 Bull crap. 1.00

00:07:49.600 I'm not swearing for Len. 1.00

00:07:50.560 Oh, wow.

00:07:51.960 Megan Kelly is fired up on this Friday.

00:07:54.760 Holy cow. 0.89

00:07:55.560 It's hard not to swear, Dave.

00:07:57.100 I know you're no longer an atheist because of Jordan Peterson.

00:08:00.980 Have you crossed over to celebrating Lent to take it?

00:08:03.400 Because I gave up swearing.

00:08:04.680 I'm doing so poorly.

00:08:07.380 You know what?

00:08:08.240 In times such as these, you have to swear every now and again.

00:08:11.480 I really think so.

00:08:12.380 Especially if you do what we do, where we're trying to combat nonsense all day long.

00:08:17.240 Right?

00:08:17.500 Like, I'm really not trying.

00:08:18.880 And I don't think you are either.

00:08:20.140 I'm not trying to demand that people really believe or have the exact worldview that I have.

00:08:24.340 But I'm trying to just debunk some of the nonsense so people can think clearly for themselves,

00:08:28.920 which really is the intro of your show.

00:08:30.940 I mean, think for yourself.

00:08:31.880 Right?

00:08:32.480 And when we're doing that all day long, every now and again, you got to curse because these 0.99

00:08:36.960 people are so insane. 0.93

00:08:38.140 That guy there, that state senator Farmer is his last name. 0.91

00:08:42.780 And you may have seen the tweet about this. 0.94

00:08:44.760 He tweeted out he had the he had the gay he had a sticker on his face and tape on his 0.98

00:08:49.920 face. 0.99

00:08:49.960 Over his mustache and beard.

00:08:51.580 I was like, wow, he's really making a point with a duct tape on his face with a beard.

00:08:55.680 Yeah, because that's not fun because I did it.

00:08:57.300 We did it.

00:08:57.840 Oh, there you go.

00:08:58.740 We did this on my show yesterday.

00:09:00.400 I put that black duct tape on my face and ripped it off.

00:09:03.180 And it's not fun.

00:09:04.000 But anyway, he tweets that out. 0.95

00:09:05.380 Did yours say gay? 0.98

00:09:07.020 Mine said gay. 0.96

00:09:07.800 I wrote gay myself. 0.93

00:09:08.800 We got a silver Sharpie. 0.61

00:09:09.920 I did it myself.

00:09:10.580 But that guy, he tweets that out.

00:09:13.300 He got something like 200 likes.

00:09:15.740 I then invited him on the show.

00:09:17.880 And I really mean it.

00:09:19.040 I invited him on the show truly to say why you think this is so important.

00:09:23.040 State Senator Farmer.

00:09:24.520 It got something like twenty five thousand likes.

00:09:26.900 Now, I'm not I'm not doing this to get into a Twitter war of likes, but it's like it's like,

00:09:31.160 dude, you saw my tweet.

00:09:32.520 I am a new I said I'm a new Floridian.

00:09:34.580 I would love to have you on the show so you can explain this to me because maybe maybe I'm

00:09:38.980 missing it.

00:09:39.500 I didn't mention anything of my sexuality, which, by the way, is completely irrelevant

00:09:43.120 to all of this.

00:09:43.840 If anything, I think the average gay person should be more against this stuff than, say, 0.96

00:09:50.300 the average straight person, because they're making us all look like like really crazy, 0.99

00:09:55.180 radical lunatics. 1.00

00:09:56.280 And most of the gay people that I know are just like you, Megan. 0.98

00:10:00.380 They're decent people.

00:10:01.580 They don't want kids indoctrinated.

00:10:03.840 They just want to be treated equally.

00:10:05.280 This has nothing to do with equal treatment.

00:10:06.880 This is sort of psychotic state brainwashing.

00:10:10.340 Or why would you want them to hide it?

00:10:12.680 I mean, it's literally they're telling they're telling you they want to be able to have these

00:10:17.100 conversations.

00:10:18.180 And that's bad enough.

00:10:19.300 But then they're also saying and we shouldn't have to tell the parents about it.

00:10:22.680 Like, yeah, crazy.

00:10:23.840 And Florida law actually has an exception, which I thought was good for if you think that that

00:10:31.060 telling the parents that such a discussion took place would endanger the child.

00:10:36.000 Basically, it allows for school districts to withhold such information from parents if

00:10:40.300 a reasonably prudent person would determine that disclosure could lead to abuse, abandonment

00:10:45.480 or neglect.

00:10:45.960 So, you know, in other words, if a teacher knows you've got some lunatic parent at home 0.86

00:10:50.460 who's like some crazy bigot, if that's out in the open and, you know, calling up the 0.97

00:10:54.260 teacher to say little Johnny came home and he told me at school he's gay, you don't want 0.98

00:10:59.720 to set the child up for abuse that I get that makes that just shows Florida legislatures 0.89

00:11:04.940 are trying to find the right balance between parental rights and the well-being of the children.

00:11:08.940 And this isn't about never teaching.

00:11:10.620 It's about teaching when it's appropriate at age appropriate levels.

00:11:14.420 But that's that's the key part of this.

00:11:16.280 And the fact that the media is just not explaining that properly again, no kid, literally no kid,

00:11:24.460 no kid.

00:11:25.080 Megan, I mean, tell me in all in your years of being a parent, did your first grader ever

00:11:29.680 come home and start talking about gender identity?

00:11:32.020 This is not something that kids are thinking about.

00:11:34.080 Now, if this was about 11th graders who let's say when I'm not that old, I'm 45.

00:11:39.720 But when I was in seventh grade, we had health class.

00:11:41.980 OK, and you started learning about some of this stuff.

00:11:44.440 Now, maybe you knew about some of it because you had older siblings or your parents taught

00:11:48.000 you at home or you had friends, whatever it might be.

00:11:50.500 But in seventh grade, that's the way they used to do it.

00:11:53.040 I went to New York public schools.

00:11:55.200 But let's say by 11th grade, Florida was really banning any discussion of sexuality in

00:12:01.960 a health class or something like that.

00:12:03.920 Well, then there would be something to discuss and we could we could have an honest discussion

00:12:07.740 about what should be discussed in a public school, what shouldn't and what should the

00:12:11.660 privacy laws be, which is really what you're referring to there.

00:12:14.100 Like if there really potentially was a threat because of a really bad at home situation,

00:12:18.360 what is the responsibility of the teacher or the administrator, the school district to

00:12:24.240 protect that kid?

00:12:25.120 We can have a discussion about that, but that has nothing to do with any of this.

00:12:29.620 Yeah.

00:12:30.420 Back.

00:12:30.860 I also went to public school in New York State and we had the intro class to sexuality

00:12:35.000 and health.

00:12:35.700 They called it health in fifth grade.

00:12:38.260 And then you had another one that was a little bit more advanced in seventh grade.

00:12:41.420 And then 10th grade was, you know, the whole kahuna. 0.89

00:12:43.940 But it doesn't bear any resemblance to what they're teaching today on this stuff.

00:12:48.420 I mean, they get in some of these classes actually enjoy promoting, quote, kink, and they 1.00

00:12:52.800 get really specific.

00:12:54.120 These teachers somehow think it's going to be beneficial to your 14 year old for them to show

00:12:58.100 sex toys at the front of the class and then pass them around. 0.96

00:13:01.120 I'm so old, Dave, not to put you on the spot.

00:13:03.560 In my fifth grade, which was 1980, I guess, 1980, they literally were passing around still

00:13:09.400 the sanitary belt with the sanitary napkin for girls who are about to get their periods.

00:13:15.540 Does any is there any woman out there old enough to remember?

00:13:18.040 You've got to call me later because that's how old I am.

00:13:21.340 I don't know what the sanitary belt is and I don't want to know what the sanitary belt is.

00:13:24.880 They hadn't figured out adhesives, Dave.

00:13:26.240 They hadn't figured out adhesives in 1980 that you'd stick on your underwear.

00:13:30.360 They wanted you to put like the the napkin in your underwear and then hold it in place

00:13:33.620 by some sort of a belt.

00:13:34.580 I don't I never did it.

00:13:36.860 Megan, Megan, it's hard to be a woman. 0.99

00:13:39.120 But but really, it's like joking aside for one second.

00:13:42.620 Imagine what it would be like for a second grade teacher to sit down with a seven year

00:13:48.620 old or maybe eight year old at that at that grade and say, I want to talk to you about

00:13:53.700 gender identity. You know, you identify as a female because you're your girl.

00:13:59.080 But, you know, some kids identify as boys and then to imagine the level of insanity.

00:14:04.700 I mean, just of what you would be putting into a child's brain.

00:14:07.980 And by the way, and I'm sick of saying this qualification or this qualifier and I'm going

00:14:11.940 to stop doing it. I have no problem with trans people. 0.98

00:14:14.340 If you want to live your life as you wish as an adult, that is completely fine.

00:14:18.620 If you want to have whatever surgeries you want to have, that is fine.

00:14:21.400 I actually have sympathy for someone that would be, you know, that they're they're feeling

00:14:26.080 of who they are is out of whack with with what their biology is.

00:14:29.400 I would want them to be treated equally under the law and hopefully find someone that loves

00:14:32.520 them and all of those things.

00:14:34.420 But this, again, has nothing to do with that.

00:14:36.800 And really think about what it would be like for an adult, not even the parents, to be doing

00:14:42.240 that at school.

00:14:43.260 I mean, it's crazy. 0.88

00:14:44.340 Well, and I'm going to say something controversial, but the thing is about being gay. 0.57

00:14:49.660 Let me explain to you what it's like to be gay, Dave.

00:14:52.440 Tell me, Megyn Kelly.

00:14:53.560 It's not contagious.

00:14:55.580 And like people who are worried, oh, if my son spends time with a with a gay boy, he's 0.88

00:15:00.240 going to turn gay. 0.78

00:15:00.860 No, that's not how it works. 0.98

00:15:01.960 That's not how it works.

00:15:02.940 Your sexuality is driven from within you.

00:15:05.060 And my gay friends are like, you know, I tried it. 0.99

00:15:07.820 I tried kissing the girl at age 15.

00:15:09.600 Nope, wasn't there.

00:15:10.620 They knew.

00:15:11.020 And while that's also true of many people in the trans community, we know from books

00:15:16.540 like Abigail Schreier's Irreversible Damage that the trans thing has become a social contagion. 0.99

00:15:23.820 And hers is based on, in part, the work of Brown University professor, former Lisa Littman,

00:15:29.860 who's been really revolutionary in studying this.

00:15:32.800 And so there is a social contagion factor to some instances of transgender, of being transgender. 0.77

00:15:40.440 So I do think I can understand a parent being a little bit more uncomfortable with the discussion

00:15:46.380 of the transgender thing is like, it's an option.

00:15:49.180 It's out there.

00:15:50.100 Some kids are there.

00:15:51.260 It's like there for you.

00:15:52.940 I don't know how they're going to talk about it to my seven year old, but I just see that

00:15:56.800 one is a little bit more fraught than explained.

00:15:59.340 Most kids when they're seven or eight have seen gay men or lesbian women and they naturally 0.78

00:16:04.220 are like, what's happening there?

00:16:05.520 And you're like, oh, they're gay. 0.99

00:16:06.640 You know, sometimes two men love each other.

00:16:07.980 Sometimes two women love each other and you move on. 0.99

00:16:10.620 I want to be in control of those discussions, but I really want to be in control of the ones

00:16:14.980 that might implant a seed that could grow into something in my child.

00:16:20.160 Well, that's that's the key point, right?

00:16:22.360 The planting of the seeds.

00:16:23.340 So, for example, I mentioned my seven year old niece's birthday party that we went to

00:16:27.340 on Sunday.

00:16:27.860 And actually, then David, my husband.

00:16:29.760 Yes, my husband is gay, was then the special person at her class this week.

00:16:33.680 They had special, they had special, they had special place in there.

00:16:38.920 Yeah.

00:16:39.280 And I'm in Florida.

00:16:40.300 And guess what?

00:16:40.860 He was allowed to go there.

00:16:42.500 But, you know, Eden, who's who's beautiful and wonderful and curious and smart and all

00:16:47.140 the great things about about a young child.

00:16:49.500 She knows that we're both her uncles.

00:16:51.540 She comes to our house and she has sleepovers and hangs out with us. 0.87

00:16:54.360 And, you know, we we swim and do all the stuff that you do.

00:16:57.300 When we take her to the zoo, it's never once come up like something about us being different

00:17:02.900 or something like that.

00:17:04.300 Not and it's not because we're hiding it from her, but she's seven years old.

00:17:07.960 And maybe there's some inkling of, oh, they you know, these are two guys that live together

00:17:13.480 or something like that.

00:17:15.080 But when the moment comes or if and we've discussed it with my sister and my brother

00:17:18.620 in law, when the moment comes or if she brings it up, if she ever said to the two of

00:17:22.460 us, so you guys live together or you have one bedroom or whatever it might be, it's

00:17:27.680 like then we can honestly have that discussion with her.

00:17:30.340 But I don't know that I would do it without referring to my sister first.

00:17:33.160 And that's my own sister.

00:17:34.760 And I'm related, obviously, to my niece.

00:17:37.300 So, again, handing this all to the state, especially when the state has shown it's so

00:17:42.340 negligent regarding everything else, regarding critical race theory and all the other woke

00:17:46.860 stuff, it's really, really dangerous.

00:17:49.780 And yeah, and it's it's by the way, by the way, the only reason Florida is doing this

00:17:54.120 is because of that.

00:17:55.100 This isn't that DeSantis was just like, oh, let's do this out of nowhere.

00:17:58.060 It's only because they keep encroaching on everything that we used to think was just

00:18:04.380 saying.

00:18:05.580 Let me tell you, for those who haven't heard it, what happened to my third grader?

00:18:10.240 He's now in sixth grade.

00:18:11.680 But this is this began our journey out of our old school, which is literally one of the top

00:18:17.880 three schools in the country.

00:18:18.820 And he was thriving there.

00:18:21.240 We he was in third grade and we went to parent teacher night and one of the other dads at

00:18:27.400 parent teacher night raised his hands and said to the teacher, and it was the science

00:18:32.120 teacher who was nine months pregnant at the time.

00:18:35.180 Why did my son come home and ask me if it's true he can take a pill to prevent puberty? 0.99

00:18:41.600 And then when he turns 18, he can have an operation to chop off his penis if he decides he wants 0.99

00:18:47.740 to be a girl who told him that and who thought that was an appropriate discussion for third 1.00

00:18:53.060 grade.

00:18:53.860 And we were expecting this woman to say, you know, boys chat.

00:18:58.780 It's an all boys school.

00:18:59.880 I don't know.

00:19:01.080 She was like, we told him that it happened in class.

00:19:04.440 We discussed that as part of our three week education program on trans people.

00:19:11.540 And we were like, what?

00:19:13.800 There was no permission slip.

00:19:15.580 We didn't know it was going to happen.

00:19:16.880 Apparently they had slipped something into like a mass email, which was not revealing of

00:19:20.580 what actually would happen.

00:19:21.860 They were showing videos.

00:19:22.880 Of course, it had, you know, trans people, guys dressed in tutus with a heavy makeup. 0.82

00:19:26.460 And the boys were confused.

00:19:29.800 A lot of them had never heard anything about this.

00:19:33.020 Right.

00:19:33.240 My child had.

00:19:34.500 But a lot of these boys had never even heard the term trans.

00:19:37.580 And it wasn't her business to introduce them to that concept and to talk to them about chopping 0.99

00:19:43.520 off penises. 0.99

00:19:44.760 That happened in our school. 1.00

00:19:47.140 And if that teacher had tried that shit stuff down in Florida after this law, she wouldn't 1.00

00:19:54.120 have been allowed. 0.99

00:19:54.760 The parents actually would have been able to sue if she had done that without disclosing. 0.76

00:19:59.180 And they did it in my school without disclosing.

00:20:01.660 And the boys were confused.

00:20:02.880 They were so confused, Dave, that they started had to implement a system where the boys would

00:20:05.960 hold up their hands like in a fist and they would make you hold up one finger, two, three,

00:20:10.680 four or five, depending on how confused you were, because they were also confused about

00:20:14.800 what was happening.

00:20:16.140 They were.

00:20:16.620 It was all the tropes that we've been trying to get rid of around the gay community and just

00:20:22.640 gender roles forever. 1.00

00:20:24.260 Like, do you like purple?

00:20:25.660 You might be a girl.

00:20:26.960 What?

00:20:27.840 That's not true at all.

00:20:29.100 That liking purple or pink or even a dress doesn't mean anything about your sexuality.

00:20:35.580 So all of it was it was misinformation.

00:20:37.660 It was confusing to the boys.

00:20:38.720 It was not sanctioned by the parents.

00:20:39.960 And we couldn't yell at the lady because she was nine months pregnant. 1.00

00:20:42.960 It was the whole thing was so frustrating.

00:20:44.980 And for the first time in the school's 400 year history, they actually had to apologize

00:20:50.600 to the parents.

00:20:51.240 There was such an outrage in this liberal New York City community that when 86 percent for

00:20:56.840 Joe Biden, even those parents were outraged and the school had to apologize.

00:21:02.920 That's what Ron DeSantis is trying to stop.

00:21:05.080 Yeah, and Megan, I remember when you took your kids out of school and I remember when you

00:21:09.860 left New York City and the whole thing.

00:21:11.300 Those are not easy things to do, right?

00:21:14.040 It's like you're doing pretty well.

00:21:15.880 You have a great family and all that stuff and resources.

00:21:20.120 And some people don't and some people do.

00:21:21.680 But it's never easy regardless, regardless of where you're at.

00:21:24.200 It's never easy to just pick up and say, I can't do this anymore.

00:21:26.840 But you did what was right for your kids.

00:21:28.900 So yeah, DeSantis is defending that.

00:21:31.000 I think we actually might have discussed this once before, but the other part of the

00:21:35.160 trans discussion that, again, we're talking about such a small amount of people, and that's

00:21:39.860 not to dismiss that amount of those people, but we're having big discussions constantly

00:21:45.620 about a very small percentage of the population.

00:21:48.800 But the other piece of this, the other piece of this that's really dangerous, and I think

00:21:52.540 people need to start thinking about, is that it's actually very anti-gay, too, because

00:21:57.540 you just hit on something when you mention the colors.

00:21:59.440 So people always say to me, Dave, oh, you're straight acting, or you don't seem gay, or

00:22:03.800 something like that.

00:22:04.820 And it's like, I have been married to a man for eight years.

00:22:07.720 We've been together for 12 years.

00:22:08.920 Like, I assure you, I'm gay.

00:22:10.420 Now, do I still like Star Wars and Marvel movies and basketball?

00:22:13.820 I do.

00:22:14.540 But I happen to be gay, and that's just one piece of me.

00:22:17.480 So when I was a kid, let's say fourth grade or whatever, I was playing with G.I.

00:22:21.600 Joes and Transformers and whatever else.

00:22:23.180 So the teacher may have thought that I was not gay, and I don't think I was thinking about

00:22:27.600 it when I was in fourth grade anyway.

00:22:29.820 However, now take, say, a more effeminate little boy, a fourth grader who's playing with

00:22:35.180 Barbies or just has longer hair or his affect is a little more girl-like or whatever it might

00:22:41.160 be.

00:22:41.360 The teacher would be inclined to push him towards becoming trans and becoming a girl.

00:22:48.080 That's how warped the system is.

00:22:50.400 So they're actually, in a bizarre sense, this is very anti-gay because that four-year-old, 0.98

00:22:55.520 who's maybe more effeminate, is probably just going to grow up to be a gay guy and big 0.99

00:23:01.200 damn deal. 0.99

00:23:02.080 But instead, they're going to push him to something that's completely out of whack with 0.99

00:23:06.040 his biology.

00:23:07.240 And if you do, and this is exactly what Abigail's book is about that you referenced earlier,

00:23:12.140 Irreversible Damage.

00:23:13.400 Once you do these massive changes to your body, it doesn't mean that you're happier the

00:23:18.740 next day.

00:23:19.920 You know, I mean, people should watch, even though the show was sort of woke, the show

00:23:23.040 transparent on, I think it was on Hulu, does a really good explainer of this, that this

00:23:28.500 man decides or goes through the transitioning process, sort of thinking that his life will

00:23:33.260 magically get better because he had this secret or wasn't living as himself all the time.

00:23:37.240 But in many ways, it gets much worse.

00:23:40.280 And that's why I have a lot of sympathy there.

00:23:42.100 But we really, we're playing with something that's very dangerous here.

00:23:45.340 And it should be left to the parents when the kids are little.

00:23:49.440 It's like, you know, it's too much too soon.

00:23:53.420 And I don't trust these teachers at those levels to understand what's appropriate for

00:23:58.960 these young children, because a lot of these teachers are ideologically driven and they

00:24:03.580 have some mantle of being like some social engineer with my child that I've never given

00:24:08.820 them.

00:24:09.300 It's not appropriate.

00:24:10.500 So and the keeping it a secret is that a real thing, too, in New York, at least in

00:24:16.440 New York City, I haven't checked in New York State, but at least in New York City, you send

00:24:20.280 your kid to private school there and your kid decides to transition while at school.

00:24:25.420 The school has absolutely no obligation to tell you.

00:24:28.120 And in fact, I think the the policy is they may not tell you they may not.

00:24:32.660 So we had friends of friends who had a kid at one of the best schools in the city.

00:24:37.160 And at some point and then the child who I think was a it was a boy transitioning a girl.

00:24:43.940 I can't remember.

00:24:44.600 But the the kid came home and said, I want to be a girl.

00:24:48.940 And the parents were like, oh, OK.

00:24:51.580 And they said, we're going to talk with the school.

00:24:53.920 The kid said, OK, they went to talk to the school.

00:24:55.560 The school's like, oh, we know he's been dressing as a girl and going by this girl name for a

00:25:01.140 year, for a year.

00:25:02.800 And they didn't tell the parents and they literally believe here and in L.A.

00:25:08.240 And I quote, this is from the L.A.

00:25:10.180 school district that the parents rights stop at the schoolhouse door.

00:25:15.500 Megan, my only sort of belief at this point related to all this is these people are not

00:25:20.560 going to stop.

00:25:21.220 I think we really do have to understand that they are not going to stop.

00:25:24.620 There is no bottom to this pit.

00:25:27.260 They are going to keep going.

00:25:28.520 This is this is a cult.

00:25:29.700 Wokeness has become a cult and you have to give the devil is due. 0.79

00:25:33.460 They have they have wrought such destruction on all of the things that that so many generations

00:25:39.460 fought to keep us free and keep individual rights and logic and reason in place to build

00:25:45.520 the institutions to protect those things.

00:25:47.700 They've done an incredible job of destroying all of those things.

00:25:51.180 And I would say to to you and I would say to anyone that's a parent that's listening to

00:25:55.920 this, if your child is at a school that tolerates any of this or allows for the teacher to have

00:26:00.800 conversations with the student, your child, that they that they don't have to then tell

00:26:05.860 you about, especially about something of this nature, you have to get your kids out of these

00:26:10.020 schools.

00:26:10.440 We need to build different institutions.

00:26:12.600 We really do.

00:26:13.460 And I mean that educationally.

00:26:15.980 I mean it culturally.

00:26:17.440 I mean it at every technologically at every level, they are not going to stop.

00:26:23.400 And I think in some ways we're wasting our energy trying to get them to stop and we should

00:26:28.500 just be building different things.

00:26:30.180 Right.

00:26:30.320 It's on.

00:26:30.980 And I'm so happy that there are governors like DeSantis who say effectively, if if these

00:26:36.200 districts aren't going to protect the students and the parents, I will.

00:26:39.640 I'll do it with a stroke of a pen.

00:26:40.820 And by the way, supported by the Florida legislature.

00:26:42.600 He won.

00:26:44.040 I want to say one other thing.

00:26:46.240 So we pulled our kids.

00:26:47.240 We sent them to school.

00:26:48.160 That's why we're in Connecticut now, a different school.

00:26:50.400 And can I let me give you another example of a great teacher.

00:26:52.500 So my same little boy who had been in that third grade class.

00:26:55.300 Now he's aging up.

00:26:56.260 Now here he is in fifth grade.

00:26:57.940 And he was just telling me this last night because we were talking about energy and, you

00:27:02.520 know, green energy, all these things in the wake of what's happening with Ukraine

00:27:06.260 and our gas prices and so on.

00:27:07.940 And I was making the point that I had made on the air, which is the Germans in particular 1.00

00:27:14.280 could have faced the wrath of Greta Thunberg or they could have faced the wrath of Vladimir

00:27:20.040 Putin.

00:27:20.400 And they chose wrong.

00:27:21.980 And he knows who Greta Thunberg is.

00:27:24.100 All the kids, all three of my kids do.

00:27:25.520 They've all been taught about her.

00:27:26.520 And my daughter said, oh, you know, yes, my my school said that she's a heroine and she's

00:27:33.000 stood up for what's right.

00:27:34.480 And she's made a real difference in making the world a cleaner, you know, healthier, better 0.83

00:27:38.520 place.

00:27:39.100 Like, OK, not surprised that that's what you learned in your girl school.

00:27:41.880 And my son, who, again, this is in his new school, his teacher in fifth grade said Greta

00:27:48.580 Thunberg is very courageous and she stood up for what she believed in.

00:27:52.880 And and everyone should do that.

00:27:54.460 That's she's to be commended for standing up in what she for what she believes in.

00:27:57.860 And the boys right now, the fifth grade say, but was she right?

00:28:02.120 Did she did she have a point?

00:28:04.020 And he said, it's not my place as your teacher to answer that question.

00:28:08.620 That's a question.

00:28:09.340 Wow.

00:28:09.820 With your parents.

00:28:10.900 I'm like, yes, love him.

00:28:13.620 There are good teachers out there who recognize where the line is.

00:28:17.980 Go get yourself one of those.

00:28:20.380 Find those teachers.

00:28:21.620 And Megan, if I was you, I would start a new school with that guy.

00:28:26.020 Just grab him, grab all your sane friends, grab their kids, let him be the principal of

00:28:30.580 the school, run the curriculum and start start new things.

00:28:33.840 That's really what we have to do.

00:28:35.260 I mean, I just think it's so obvious that these things are so infected.

00:28:39.660 You know, you know this from New York City.

00:28:41.500 There are just so many stories of all of these elite liberal institutions that have destroyed

00:28:46.720 themselves, that no longer grade, in essence, that that if you do well and you're Asian,

00:28:52.760 they'll punish you for it.

00:28:54.060 That we are.

00:28:54.940 You can't do extra credit anymore because that might put you ahead of someone else.

00:28:59.180 We've destroyed meritocracy.

00:29:01.460 And and unfortunately, that's what equity is.

00:29:04.140 You know, we should all be going for equality.

00:29:05.840 And then, you know, it's hard work and it's God gifted skills and all of that stuff.

00:29:10.640 We've gone from that to saying, no, we're just going to destroy everybody.

00:29:13.700 So we're all lesser as opposed to let's start everybody at the same point and then see what

00:29:18.780 happens.

00:29:19.600 People are getting it.

00:29:20.500 They know what's what they're not believing these these spinners who, in response, just

00:29:24.080 try to tell us it's all about bigotry and hatred for gays or believe this demonstration.

00:29:29.820 This is soundbite for from the Florida Senate Democrats who think they made a point doing the

00:29:33.740 following.

00:29:34.240 Did I see you post online something like you're thinking you're reconsidering being gay? 0.97

00:29:52.740 They're forcing you out in the gay card. 1.00

00:29:54.900 You know, look, I'm gay with one guy.

00:29:57.140 We've got a couple of gay friends.

00:29:58.600 But whatever that is, I just want nothing to do with it.

00:30:01.420 It has nothing to do with my life. 0.99

00:30:02.920 These people, these people are crazy. 0.99

00:30:05.200 No one cares that that I think that woman was saying that her daughter's gay. 1.00

00:30:08.300 OK, fantastic lady. 1.00

00:30:10.340 But that still gives you no right to do everything that we've talked about in this time with second

00:30:16.380 graders privately from what their parents may or may not want.

00:30:20.940 These people, most of them should be in mental institutions.

00:30:23.720 I mean, we should have a mass mental health session.

00:30:26.740 If you want to have if we really want to sit down with people and figure out what's going

00:30:30.220 on here, most of these educators should probably be sat down.

00:30:33.620 Well, speaking of gay people who are going to institutions, I've got to talk to you about

00:30:38.780 Jussie Smollett next because he got his sentence and had a few things to say on his way to the

00:30:46.680 pokey.

00:30:47.420 You're not going to want to miss this.

00:30:48.480 We'll squeeze in a break.

00:30:49.160 We'll be back with the one and only Dave Rubin in just two minutes.

00:31:00.620 OK, so Jussie Smollett, he's going to jail and this is the right result.

00:31:06.620 He deserves to go to jail.

00:31:07.940 He lied about his fake race crime, hate crime hoax, and he got caught.

00:31:14.920 Boy, oh boy, did he get caught.

00:31:16.080 He had a full trial and he was found guilty.

00:31:19.360 OK, so now he gets sentenced to 30 months of felony probation, which includes five months

00:31:26.240 in jail.

00:31:27.940 In addition, he has to pay restitution of more than one hundred and twenty thousand and

00:31:31.420 a twenty five thousand dollar fine as well for making false reports.

00:31:33.980 None of that money matters.

00:31:34.820 He's got a lot of dough to him.

00:31:36.540 But five months in prison, that means something to him.

00:31:39.280 And the remaining months of probation does it as well.

00:31:41.800 And here is what he had to say in court yesterday in Chicago.

00:31:45.880 I am not suicidal.

00:31:48.360 I am innocent and I am not suicidal.

00:31:51.380 If I did this, then it means that I stuck my fist in the fears of black Americans in 0.72

00:31:56.180 this country for over 400 years and the fears of the LGBT community.

00:31:59.980 Your Honor, I respect you and I respect the jury, but I did not do this and I am not suicidal.

00:32:05.200 And if anything happens to me when I go in there, I did not do it to myself.

00:32:09.500 And you must all know that.

00:32:12.640 I respect you, Your Honor.

00:32:14.500 I respect your decision.

00:32:16.360 Jail time.

00:32:20.200 I am not suicidal.

00:32:21.660 I am not suicidal. 0.97

00:32:23.400 Stop laughing about black Americans. 1.00

00:32:24.580 I am not suicidal. 0.59

00:32:26.220 And I am innocent.

00:32:27.480 I could have said that I was guilty a long time ago.

00:32:31.160 I'm OK, Epstein.

00:32:33.220 I mean, who does he think?

00:32:34.640 It's like, are you at the center of some worldwide conspiracy where you have tapes on all these

00:32:38.460 powerful people and there's like what is what it's all about him and his weird narcissism

00:32:44.120 to the very last moment of freedom?

00:32:47.620 In full disclosure, I'm not fully aware of the catalog of all of his acting work, but I

00:32:53.300 am sure that was the best performance of his life because that's what that was.

00:32:56.920 That was nothing other than a performance.

00:32:59.500 I mean, that was a script that he had been going through in his head that he just rolled

00:33:02.800 out.

00:33:03.060 He was ready to roll it out and he rolled out.

00:33:05.200 First off, he did do he did do it.

00:33:06.960 There's no shadow of a doubt.

00:33:08.960 He did do it.

00:33:10.000 He faked a hate crime.

00:33:11.900 And and in many ways, even though, you know, it's 150 days in jail and some of the other

00:33:15.400 stuff, whatever it is, like that seems like, OK, we can argue it's too little, too much,

00:33:19.300 whatever.

00:33:19.840 If you think of the cultural damage that this guy did to this nation, think of all of the

00:33:25.560 politicians.

00:33:26.060 We played the or we showed the clip this morning on my show, Kamala Harris's tweet when it happened

00:33:31.560 about, you know, it's proof of systemic racism and AOC.

00:33:34.400 Wait, I have it here.

00:33:35.340 Let me read it.

00:33:36.220 Yeah, let's jump to that.

00:33:37.940 You want to jump to that?

00:33:38.820 January 2019.

00:33:40.700 At Jesse Smollett is one of the kindest, most gentle human beings I know.

00:33:44.720 I'm praying for his quick recovery.

00:33:46.980 This was an attempted modern day lynching.

00:33:50.140 No one should have to fear for their life because of their sexuality or color of their skin.

00:33:54.280 We must confront this hate.

00:33:57.820 Can't wait until she walks that back and sets the record straight with America and apologizes 1.00

00:34:03.960 for jumping on a bogus allegation that was obviously problematic from the start.

00:34:09.200 But no, she's she won't be doing that.

00:34:11.700 No, of course.

00:34:12.220 And by the way, AOC won't Pelosi, won't the rest of them.

00:34:15.220 They use it when they think it's valuable to them.

00:34:17.360 And then when it always gets debunked as a hoax, which it always does, then then they go silent

00:34:22.500 because the media run cover for them.

00:34:24.280 So, you know, this was the biggest story in America for weeks when it looked like a lynching.

00:34:28.900 But now you think that I get there's other things going on in the world, this war or

00:34:33.040 whatever.

00:34:33.880 But of course, this is going to fly under the radar.

00:34:36.300 But to your bigger point at the beginning there about, you know, I'm not suicidal.

00:34:40.680 Like, who does he think he is?

00:34:42.240 I mean, look, I don't want the guy to kill himself.

00:34:44.100 I think what he did was horrific.

00:34:45.660 I wouldn't want anyone to kill themselves.

00:34:47.700 But I'm pretty sure he's telling us he's going to kill himself because he now wants he wants to be the ultimate

00:34:53.960 martyr.

00:34:54.340 Now, no, it's not.

00:34:55.580 You said it.

00:34:56.160 I mean, Epstein, there were reasons that people might want Epstein dead.

00:34:59.500 Right.

00:34:59.780 Like there was evidence that there were people that he knew and things that he knew and probably

00:35:04.360 other documents that he had access to if he had ever gotten out or whatever.

00:35:08.700 Nobody.

00:35:09.100 There's no reason to think that anyone wants to kill this guy.

00:35:11.960 So he's he's telling you this is the ultimate part I can play to instigate the further racial 1.00

00:35:17.900 war that I brought to America. 0.74

00:35:20.180 Look, the judge said to him yesterday and listen, this is somebody who sat there.

00:35:24.500 The whole trial looked at him.

00:35:26.780 Judge James Lynn spoke for nearly over more than 30 minutes before announcing that sentence

00:35:32.340 and said, you, Jussie Smollett, you wrote the script.

00:35:36.680 You picked the actors for the hoax.

00:35:38.640 Your premeditation for this entire thing was an aggravating factor in the case.

00:35:43.680 That's why you're getting jail time and said, and I quote, there's a side of you that has 0.75

00:35:47.940 this arrogance and selfishness and narcissism. 0.96

00:35:51.380 That's just disgraceful. 0.58

00:35:53.380 You're not a victim of a racial hate crime.

00:35:56.120 You're not a victim of a homophobic hate crime. 0.97

00:35:59.280 You are just a charlatan pretending to be a victim of a hate crime. 0.99

00:36:03.320 And that is shameful. 0.99

00:36:05.680 And I agree with that, too.

00:36:07.260 Right.

00:36:07.420 The brother of Jussie Smollett, Jojo, came out and said he spoke about his arrogance.

00:36:12.640 He doesn't know the struggles my brother's encountering.

00:36:15.400 We don't care.

00:36:16.860 I couldn't care less what struggles he's encountering.

00:36:19.600 You're going to prison because you did lie.

00:36:23.020 You broke the law.

00:36:24.340 You actually involved a lot of the Chicago PD's time, took up a lot of their time when they

00:36:29.340 could have been solving murders and real crimes out on the streets of Chicago.

00:36:33.320 That's what that black chief of police was saying in his very fiery speech when he announced 0.59

00:36:38.960 that this was a made up hoax. 0.85

00:36:41.080 And so I don't feel sorry for him at all.

00:36:44.620 You know, Megan, we've all done things that we're not proud of in life.

00:36:47.760 We've all made mistakes.

00:36:49.020 We've all acted dishonestly.

00:36:50.840 We've all done things.

00:36:51.940 Right.

00:36:52.180 And it's your job as a human to try to do those things less and live the best, honest,

00:36:56.800 forthright life that you can.

00:36:57.920 But I'm obviously not sitting here as a perfect human.

00:37:00.740 I know you aren't either.

00:37:01.560 Everyone does these things now.

00:37:02.880 But what you get within that in the adventure of your life, I think, is you get these brief

00:37:07.440 moments where you can set some of the stuff right.

00:37:10.620 And he could have had one of those moments yesterday.

00:37:13.020 You know, it's not the worst thing in the world.

00:37:15.040 150 days in jail.

00:37:16.340 OK, especially after knowing what he did and the strife that it caused in this country.

00:37:20.980 He could have upon hearing that verdict.

00:37:24.740 Instead of doing what he did, which is exacerbate the situation, make it about him now more.

00:37:29.120 And it seems like he's going to do even worse things in jail.

00:37:33.000 He could have had a moment and said, you know, knowing that the whole world's looking at him

00:37:37.420 and said, you know, I got caught up in something.

00:37:40.360 We live in this oddly racialized society and I've experienced racism in my life.

00:37:46.100 And I did something that I should not have done.

00:37:49.560 I did something that was illegal and immoral, that mixed up so many people that led to some

00:37:54.440 of the riots and all of these things.

00:37:56.220 My intentions were good.

00:37:57.500 I was trying to shine light on racial injustice or whatever it is that he believes the problem

00:38:02.740 was that would have led him to doing this.

00:38:04.980 Someone who I think is a millionaire, who has all the benefits in the world.

00:38:08.380 Right.

00:38:09.180 He could have had a moment where he would have done that and then sort of set back some of

00:38:14.180 the craziness that we're always fighting.

00:38:16.020 But instead, he decided to set that craziness forward.

00:38:19.120 And that's where we are.

00:38:20.200 And then adding insult to injury, Kim Fox, the so-called D.A. out there, the Cook County 1.00

00:38:26.820 prosecutor, who's just been a nightmare from the start.

00:38:29.260 She's another George Soros back D.A. who doesn't want to prosecute crime, including his.

00:38:35.440 The only reason he was tried and convicted in a court is because they appointed a special

00:38:40.800 prosecutor because they recognized how outraged the cop community was in the community writ

00:38:45.600 large when it turned out this was an obvious hoax.

00:38:49.300 And Kim Fox doesn't want to prosecute anybody. 0.99

00:38:51.720 So she got big footed by Dan Webb, same guy who put my friend Rod Blagojevich in jail.

00:38:57.940 He's my new friend.

00:38:58.580 He came on a couple Fridays ago.

00:39:00.120 He was great.

00:39:02.040 So anyway, she comes out.

00:39:03.620 She has to offer a statement.

00:39:04.760 All right.

00:39:05.020 To the Chicago Sun-Times.

00:39:06.140 And she says on Thursday, the damaging, costly and disingenuous criminal prosecution

00:39:11.640 of Jussie Smollett came to an end.

00:39:13.480 As the Cook County state's attorney, it pains me deeply to say that in this case, our justice

00:39:16.860 system failed.

00:39:18.140 Given the reputational price Smollett paid, the $10,000 bond we held and the fact that

00:39:23.500 he'd never been accused of a violent crime, we decided not to pursue a criminal conviction

00:39:27.880 further.

00:39:28.440 That should have been the end of the story.

00:39:29.780 Then she goes on to say, OK, my administration's vacated over 177 wrongful convictions, 87

00:39:38.280 of those in the last three years.

00:39:40.800 Rather than working collaboratively to stem the rising crime or free the wrongly convicted,

00:39:44.580 a small group of people hijacked the judicial system here to enact what is best described

00:39:48.500 as mob justice.

00:39:49.560 And here's the here it is.

00:39:51.280 Sadly, these tactics have become common.

00:39:54.600 Black women elected prosecutors around the country have faced the same mob.

00:39:59.460 So it's all about her, Dave.

00:40:04.240 It's about race and it's about her being big footed because of her race, not because 0.99

00:40:11.740 she's a D.A. who won't prosecute crime. 1.00

00:40:16.200 Megan, remember in the previous segment when I said that we have to give the devil is due

00:40:21.440 and you have to be impressed by the damage that these people have created, the wokesters 1.00

00:40:25.460 have created a cult like belief that victimhood is everything.

00:40:28.980 So not only is Jesse Smollett a victim of his own doing, but still pretending to be a victim

00:40:33.760 now.

00:40:34.560 But now you've got the prosecutor, you know, pretending that she's the victim.

00:40:39.320 Everyone pretends that they're the victim because they put that at the height of the hierarchy

00:40:43.860 of what's important.

00:40:45.200 And if you can somehow perceive yourself to be a victim, then you are a victim.

00:40:49.240 But, you know, these Soros-backed D.A.s that are all over the place.

00:40:51.940 This is not a conspiracy, by the way.

00:40:53.520 I'm sure Media Matters is watching your show as they watch mine every day and they want

00:40:58.000 to get us on every little thing that we say.

00:40:59.920 It is not a conspiracy theory.

00:41:01.960 We know that George Soros puts tons of money towards these crazy left-wing D.A.s who end

00:41:08.200 up in San Francisco.

00:41:09.780 George Gascon in San Francisco.

00:41:11.160 What did he do?

00:41:11.800 He destroyed San Francisco.

00:41:13.120 And then what happens in the world of left-wing California politics?

00:41:16.300 You become the D.A. of L.A.

00:41:17.960 And then you destroy L.A.

00:41:19.600 And now San Francisco's got this guy Chesa Boudin, who's even worse than him. 1.00

00:41:23.600 And then it happens in Chicago and Seattle and all these other places.

00:41:26.880 They make everything worse.

00:41:28.940 And then you're not going to believe who has to come in and fix these cities.

00:41:33.240 It's those scary, mean conservatives, sort of like in New York City back in the late 80s

00:41:40.900 when progressive hero David Dinkins destroyed the city.

00:41:44.740 And I remember, even though I grew up in Long Island, I remember going to visit my grandparents

00:41:48.420 who lived in New York City, and it was disgusting. 0.58

00:41:50.820 And I literally remember once walking through Times Square and my mom putting her hand over

00:41:55.900 my eyes because she didn't want me to see all the all the sex shops and the homeless

00:42:00.120 and all thing.

00:42:01.200 And then who had to fix it? 0.99

00:42:02.800 This guy came in named Rudy Giuliani, and they said he was mean and he hated black people 0.98

00:42:09.020 and all the stuff. 0.96

00:42:10.680 And then what did he do?

00:42:11.540 He gave New York City basically a 25-year incredible run that then Bloomberg pretty much worked with

00:42:18.240 and continued.

00:42:19.320 And then what happened?

00:42:19.940 It came crashing down by Bill de Blasio, another lefty, I would argue, socialist.

00:42:26.340 So this is a game that we see over and over.

00:42:28.480 Lefty socialist pothead who is sitting back in Gracie Manchin, token up a doobie instead of

00:42:33.620 worrying about the overflowing garbage cans, the homeless problem, the crime problem, and the

00:42:38.540 fact that New York, which was once a thriving metropolis with known internationally for its

00:42:43.400 great restaurants and its mom pop stores and its amazing bakeries, got reduced to one big

00:42:48.840 Starbucks, CVS and Citibank because of his policies.

00:42:52.740 And you can walk through exactly how he did it, but he did it.

00:42:55.480 Now, speaking of L.A., can we just talk about something out there?

00:42:59.240 Do you believe so in New York?

00:43:01.360 Finally, they got rid of the mask mandate in the schools and our lunatic governor who nobody 0.83

00:43:05.740 voted for.

00:43:06.280 Kathy Hochul finally was forced to do that.

00:43:09.780 But K through five still has to have it on.

00:43:12.420 Little kids.

00:43:13.120 Sorry, under five.

00:43:14.460 They still have to wear the masks.

00:43:15.780 It's insane.

00:43:17.280 They're the least at risk from covid, but they refuse to unmask the littles.

00:43:21.080 Oh, and by the way, there was one school in New York that tried to do an end around the

00:43:26.400 new no mask policy saying if your teacher says she's more comfortable with having the

00:43:31.400 class in masks, we expect you to accede to her. 1.00

00:43:35.040 No, no.

00:43:36.380 F the teacher.

00:43:37.120 No.

00:43:37.820 Does that count?

00:43:38.380 That doesn't F.

00:43:39.040 F is not.

00:43:39.800 That's like it's a placeholder.

00:43:41.860 You could have taken up.

00:43:42.800 I love I really love the fact that you're struggling with this cursing thing, too, because

00:43:46.600 it's become a running joke on my show, because as I said earlier, it's like, what else do we

00:43:50.720 have left with these people?

00:43:51.880 What how what other words are there than these people?

00:43:55.620 I can't even say the phrase that I call Kathy on my show.

00:43:58.640 I'm not even going to degrade your show to the point because I don't call her by her last

00:44:02.560 name anymore.

00:44:03.440 I call her something else.

00:44:04.440 But I'll I'll text I'll text it to you when we're done here.

00:44:07.600 You raise a good point.

00:44:08.480 Why am I at a time like this?

00:44:09.540 Am I getting rid of my favorite vices?

00:44:11.620 Well, anyway, so now so let's go fly cross country to L.A.

00:44:16.420 And that school district has basically the latest reporting is that they're they're not taking

00:44:20.640 it off until the end of the year.

00:44:22.120 All the kids are going to have to remain masked until the end of the year.

00:44:27.740 And it's explicitly because of the teachers unions.

00:44:30.400 They say we're not ready.

00:44:32.020 We're not.

00:44:32.880 Oh, Dave, Megan, did you see this thing on television?

00:44:37.300 I saw it about two weeks ago.

00:44:39.020 There was this elderly man who gave a big speech in front of a bunch of other old people.

00:44:43.540 It was somewhere in Washington, D.C.

00:44:45.500 He read off a teleprompter.

00:44:46.700 There were two women sitting behind him. 0.98

00:44:48.220 Does this ring a bell to you?

00:44:49.000 Somebody clapped with their knuckles right behind him.

00:44:51.420 Yeah, the woman that was going like this the whole time, really creepy. 0.99

00:44:54.520 I believe it was Joe Biden, I think, was his name.

00:44:56.780 And it was the State of the Union that they did.

00:44:58.640 And it was a whole bunch of people in a room with no windows and none of them had masks.

00:45:03.380 I think there was that one woman with the mask there. 0.84

00:45:05.620 Joe Biden, 79 years old.

00:45:07.260 Most of those people are elderly.

00:45:08.600 We know that age is one of the major factors in how sick you'll get with covid. 0.99

00:45:12.440 These people are liars at every level. 0.97

00:45:15.240 They have lied to us about everything. 0.99

00:45:18.800 I don't know how to describe it any other way than that.

00:45:21.060 There is no science, zero science that says that kids should be in masks at this point.

00:45:27.720 Actually, the Surgeon General here in Florida, as you know, I fled L.A.

00:45:30.720 I'm an L.A. refugee who now lives in the free state of Florida.

00:45:34.300 The Surgeon General who we have here, who's absolutely fantastic.

00:45:37.340 He's been basically reading reports during press conferences showing that there is no science.

00:45:42.280 So Fauci, who suddenly has disappeared over the last two weeks, he would go on, meet the

00:45:46.380 press and all the shows, and he would never refer to us.

00:45:48.780 He would never refer to data.

00:45:50.100 He would always say, well, we need the numbers to be low enough.

00:45:52.540 Well, that that doesn't mean anything.

00:45:53.920 It's just that's just an idea, right?

00:45:57.060 Exactly right.

00:45:57.760 So people are lying, Megan.

00:45:59.120 They're lying about everything.

00:46:00.420 And if you send at this point, two years after two weeks to flatten the curve, if you send

00:46:05.720 your kids to school in a mask, three year olds, four year olds who are now having speech

00:46:09.920 delays and there's sores on their mouths, I mean, there's all sorts of stuff coming out

00:46:13.620 that kids are not speaking properly.

00:46:15.580 Literally, the muscles in their mouths are not developing properly.

00:46:19.780 If you are still sending your kids to schools in that situation, you're abusing your own

00:46:24.700 child.

00:46:25.520 You're I don't I don't know how to say it any other way.

00:46:27.360 It's so we have to remember the kids who are masked.

00:46:30.160 Don't move on.

00:46:31.000 My kids, thank God, are unmasked now, but we can't just move on without them. 0.97

00:46:35.660 We have to go back and get them like the kids in the L.A. Unified School District and

00:46:39.440 this nonsense and these terrible, terrible teachers unions need to be held to account.

00:46:45.360 Dave Rubin, so delighted that the G word Florida resident Dave Rubin was here today.

00:46:50.940 And I'm glad that you're loving Florida.

00:46:52.720 I hope soon we can say the same for Clyde and get back to me on what we what do we do

00:46:59.480 when he jumps up on the kitchen island right in front of you.

00:47:03.200 I love you.

00:47:04.120 Clyde loves you.

00:47:05.020 We can't wait to cook some chicken parm for you.

00:47:07.760 Drink some tequila in the free state of Florida.

00:47:10.600 Oh, right back at you, Dave.

00:47:12.360 Lots of love.

00:47:13.000 Thanks for being here.

00:47:14.640 Bye bye.

00:47:15.200 If you haven't checked out the Rubin Report, you need to.

00:47:17.600 That's obvious why I should go download it now.

00:47:19.700 He's always this entertaining.

00:47:21.380 And don't forget, you can find the full video show and clips of our show when you subscribe

00:47:26.560 to our YouTube channel, YouTube dot com slash Megan Kelly and go back and take a look

00:47:29.660 at our old Dave Rubin episodes because they're all great.

00:47:35.020 Thanks to the Durham investigation into the Trump Russia probe.

00:47:39.300 This is the guy who's trying to figure out how everyone got it so wrong.

00:47:42.980 We now know that President Trump was, in fact, spied on investigative reporter and longtime

00:47:49.180 media fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institution.

00:47:51.560 Paul Sperry has been doing great, in-depth, fearless reporting on this topic, shedding light

00:47:57.860 on the shady, and I do mean shady, cast of characters involved.

00:48:02.940 And he's here with me now.

00:48:04.180 Paul, thank you so much for being here.

00:48:05.880 All right.

00:48:06.160 So you're going to help us walk through it in the little baby terms, because this is so confusing.

00:48:12.780 So let me let me explain how I want to do it to remind our audience.

00:48:19.200 You got John Durham.

00:48:20.400 He's probing.

00:48:21.380 How did Russiagate happen?

00:48:22.580 How did this lie get made up about a sitting president and distract the nation for over

00:48:26.620 two years straight?

00:48:28.340 And he indicted, among others, this guy, Michael Sussman, a lawyer who he says lied to the FBI

00:48:34.780 and didn't disclose that he was in there trying to push negative information on Trump to the

00:48:38.240 FBI like, hey, you should investigate this.

00:48:39.980 How about this?

00:48:41.100 He lied by not disclosing that he was actually a lawyer for the Clinton campaign, which would

00:48:46.160 have been relevant.

00:48:47.600 Now, most reports say that the FBI actually already knew that, but that doesn't excuse

00:48:50.980 a lie.

00:48:51.680 And so Sussman, who has denied that he's lied, is facing some legal hot water.

00:48:55.960 OK, so in the course of that piece of of Durham's case, he files a motion.

00:49:01.540 There's some sort of conflict of interest going on with the lawyers.

00:49:03.800 I don't it's irrelevant, I think, for now.

00:49:05.920 And in his latest motion, Durham says, let me tell you another little story about Michael

00:49:11.800 Sussman and some people he hired that were inappropriately using data that they had legal

00:49:20.200 access to the data because they were running White House servers and other servers that

00:49:24.500 Trump was using.

00:49:25.200 But they did not have the legal right to be plumbing those servers for data related to

00:49:32.680 Trump and then making it somewhat public, using it against him.

00:49:37.560 And that is what Durham is alleging.

00:49:39.860 This guy, Michael Sussman, who worked for the Clinton campaign, used unidentified tech

00:49:44.980 executive to do.

00:49:46.740 Who is tech executive?

00:49:48.320 What tech executive had access to servers that Donald Trump, the candidate, was using,

00:49:52.600 that Donald Trump, the president, was using, and then went to the FBI with data trying

00:49:58.380 to make Trump look bad?

00:49:59.580 Who who is tech executive?

00:50:01.620 OK, enter Paul Sperry.

00:50:03.880 Now we're going to get he's going to tell you the name of the tech executive.

00:50:07.280 And before we get to that piece, the Durham and all that, he's going to we're going to

00:50:10.440 walk a little bit through this guy's background because you do it brilliantly.

00:50:15.240 So who is the guy?

00:50:16.760 Rodney Jaffe is he's quite the operator, a bit of a hustler.

00:50:23.220 Originally from South Africa.

00:50:25.820 And he's supposed to be a big cybersecurity expert entrusted with government Internet

00:50:35.240 data and supposed to be protecting us from, you know, cyber creeps trying to snoop on us

00:50:44.580 and hack us.

00:50:45.280 But looks like he's one of those creeps himself, you know, spying on Trump and a number of

00:50:51.280 his advisers as well.

00:50:53.620 And we found that he has a pretty sketchy background running mail order scams and online lottery

00:51:03.540 scams, which begs the question, how did this guy get the security clearance to, you know,

00:51:14.540 run contracts with the FBI, the Pentagon, even the White House and get access to all of this

00:51:22.740 sensitive, otherwise protected data, which also, by the way, raises a lot of privacy issues

00:51:29.220 and concerns.

00:51:29.840 So tell us about let's take a walk down memory lane and tell us about Rodney L.

00:51:35.960 Jaffe and the grandfather clock.

00:51:39.120 Oh, yes.

00:51:41.300 So the grandfather clock scam.

00:51:44.280 So Jaffe was alleged to be fleecing.

00:51:48.240 He was investigated, actually, for fleecing old folks by claiming that they had won a grandfather

00:51:53.120 clock, which turned out to be nothing more than a miniature plastic version.

00:51:59.540 You know, you put it on your nightstand and there was some assembly required.

00:52:03.540 And he was actually charging these folks $69 for shipping and handling.

00:52:10.800 And so millions got scammed and state attorneys investigated as well as the feds.

00:52:17.300 So the U.S. Postal Inspectors got involved.

00:52:20.860 And Jaffe and his partner ended up having to refund hundreds of thousands of dollars.

00:52:25.520 And we tracked down his old business partner, retired in Florida, and she blamed everything

00:52:33.400 on Rodney.

00:52:34.900 He said, Rodney, this was all Rodney's idea.

00:52:36.860 And she quit right after that investigation. 0.73

00:52:40.120 So this is just to remind the audience, this is the same guy.

00:52:42.820 This is tech executive one we're talking about.

00:52:44.520 This is the guy who allegedly went to the FBI with the Trump data from his servers and

00:52:50.140 the White House servers and said, hey, might be a Russia connection here.

00:52:53.060 Might want to look into it.

00:52:53.960 He did it through Michael Slessman, the lawyer.

00:52:55.880 It's always better to do it through a lawyer because they believe people with nefarious

00:52:59.960 motives and otherwise it might be privileged.

00:53:02.600 Maybe the conversation won't be discoverable if you involve a lawyer.

00:53:05.820 So this is the guy.

00:53:06.700 This is tech executive one with his grandfather, Clock Scam, who somehow worked his way up to

00:53:11.680 become the guy who controls the White House servers.

00:53:15.140 OK, so you as you write in your piece for Real Clear Investigations, love RealClearPolitics.com.

00:53:20.780 It's got all sorts of good things on it.

00:53:21.880 You write, but Jaffe, Jaffe pressed on with his direct mail marketing business before packing

00:53:28.940 up for Arizona a few years later.

00:53:31.040 So he wasn't content after getting caught with the whole grandfather clock thing to just

00:53:35.240 move on to a legitimate life.

00:53:37.260 Well, he, you know, there's some questions why he left.

00:53:44.160 We did find some pretty hefty tax liens against his property in Los Angeles.

00:53:50.880 And he ends up in Phoenix and tries to recreate himself as a champion of for consumers battling

00:53:59.800 mail order scams and also spam and kind of garnered a reputation as such.

00:54:08.380 And then years later, he ends up in Washington as a cyber security expert and gets in with

00:54:18.780 the FBI number of contracts.

00:54:21.080 And now, but wait a minute.

00:54:22.080 We can't can't that be a thing, right?

00:54:24.280 You you do some stuff that may be not totally above board, like the thing with the clock.

00:54:29.480 But then you learn your lesson and you're like, you know what, I'm going to use my powers

00:54:33.140 for good now and become the quote, as he put it in the name of his business, white hat

00:54:37.600 hacker, you know, to to use the tools, the tricks of the trade for good doing this to

00:54:43.580 protect you.

00:54:44.340 Right.

00:54:44.620 Right.

00:54:44.980 Yeah.

00:54:45.280 But he ended up being involved with this free lotto.com.

00:54:50.340 So there's a pattern here and free lotto.com had to pay millions and fines for deceptive

00:54:57.820 advertising.

00:54:58.380 So what's that free lotto.com is a lot of free lotto.com.

00:55:06.420 Yeah.

00:55:06.580 Basically, instead of exploiting the retirees, now he's is companies involved with or exploiting

00:55:13.480 poor folks.

00:55:16.300 And they ended up having to pay the parent company plows the net of millions of dollars

00:55:21.460 to New York and other states for for fines for deceptive advertising.

00:55:27.200 So my point is that that's a pattern.

00:55:31.580 That's why I was saying that he's a bit of a hustler, this guy.

00:55:37.680 Uh, but he really cleaned up his reputation and repackaged himself as a cyber security expert.

00:55:46.660 And a number of people in Washington, you know, they bought it.

00:55:50.540 And, you know, he, the cyber forensics experts or colleagues that I've talked to, he said,

00:55:56.740 this guy really isn't that good.

00:55:58.980 He's not, he's not good at computer programming.

00:56:01.640 And, uh, you know, as a networking analyst, uh, he's more of an operator and, you know, he brags

00:56:10.020 about how much, you know, carrying around bags of money to make things happen.

00:56:14.380 Um, so we're continuing to dig into his background.

00:56:18.620 We've also found some other things that are curious in his background that we're developing.

00:56:24.060 How did this guy get, I mean, forgive my naivete, but how did he pass an FBI background check,

00:56:29.800 which he would have had to, to have access to the White House servers?

00:56:33.560 Right.

00:56:34.000 That's, that's the big question.

00:56:35.680 Um, you know, who, who are these people and how do they get so much power and who's vetting

00:56:40.960 them?

00:56:41.540 Because obviously this would have showed up in an FBI personal background check on him,

00:56:47.060 which, you know, he's got top secret clearance.

00:56:49.740 Um, especially since the U S postal service was involved in that investigation.

00:56:56.280 Um, but, uh, somehow he, he passed and, you know, some justice department people I've

00:57:02.640 talked to, um, you know, about this situation in this case say that he's got friends in

00:57:07.300 high places.

00:57:08.200 So, you know, he was, um, an advisor to Obama in the white house, president Obama.

00:57:14.800 He was an informant for James Comey's FBI.

00:57:19.600 And we even dug up some old photos of him together with Obama and together with James

00:57:25.160 Comey.

00:57:26.140 What was he doing for James Comey?

00:57:27.900 My God, it's like the web of people who are involved in Russiagate.

00:57:30.840 It always comes back to the same few people.

00:57:33.980 Yes, that's true.

00:57:35.800 Yeah.

00:57:36.340 One big happy family.

00:57:38.460 Uh, so he was working on some cybersecurity cases and he also had a number of contracts

00:57:44.940 with the FBI and those contracts involved monitoring government computers, uh, for breaches and also

00:57:55.360 the justice department and the Pentagon.

00:57:57.740 And of course we know about the white house executive office of the president.

00:58:01.280 Oh, and by the way, let me back up.

00:58:02.880 You were talking about things he was spying on in Trump.

00:58:05.600 Uh, another, not just Trump towers and the executive office of the president.

00:58:09.240 He was also looking in the transition offices, uh, for the president elect back then, but he

00:58:15.260 was also looking at, um, traffic involved with the, the internet servers connected to Trump's apartment

00:58:24.560 building in central park West.

00:58:28.040 Hmm.

00:58:29.240 All right.

00:58:29.780 We're going to get to that piece of it.

00:58:30.800 Cause that's of course what the audience is most interested in.

00:58:33.120 Like what, what did he do to Trump if anything, and how, how does it play in?

00:58:38.340 But his background to me is fascinating.

00:58:40.040 Nobody, nobody bothered to look if somebody had done this to Joe Biden, all of the media

00:58:44.320 would be exposing the weird clock thing and the free lotto.

00:58:47.960 And he's still on that, the board, I guess, of that company.

00:58:50.640 And we'd be questioning why was such a character involved in this and, and what exactly did he

00:58:56.240 do?

00:58:56.380 But no, this story has been buried since it broke.

00:58:59.280 It's been totally buried.

00:59:00.420 The mainstream media pushed back so hard on it.

00:59:03.240 No one spied on anyone.

00:59:04.440 Grow up. 1.00

00:59:04.940 You losers. 1.00

00:59:05.480 There's no, they're there. 1.00

00:59:06.580 And the media got scared and shied away.

00:59:08.880 I mean, basically everybody stopped covering it, but we're not going to stop covering it.

00:59:12.760 Um, so now the guy, the media is, yeah, they're running a lot of interference on the

00:59:18.380 story so that it can't be covered.

00:59:20.960 And, uh, a lot of obfuscation and going with the, what, what, what,

00:59:26.380 they're fed by the defense attorneys for Jaffe and Sussman and others, instead of doing

00:59:31.700 independent reporting and research.

00:59:34.800 And, um, the reason for that is primarily because there's Pulitzers on the line here. 0.99

00:59:42.080 You know, if this thing, if the Russiagate hoax is unraveled and Durham's hitting a lot

00:59:49.100 of pay dirt here, and it's, that is happening and it's completely unraveled, you know, you have

00:59:54.740 to go back and look at some of these Pulitzers, the New York Times, the Washington Post, one. 0.82

00:59:59.760 So, I mean, they were complicit in the scandal.

01:00:04.460 And, and so they have a lot invested here to prevent the public from knowing about this,

01:00:11.960 uh, what, uh, these indictments and everything that.

01:00:15.820 That's a good point.

01:00:17.040 That Durham is covering.

01:00:18.400 So this guy continues climbing the, the ranks in Washington, buddying up with President Obama,

01:00:25.040 with James Comey.

01:00:26.880 And then when he ultimately gets this role, you know, overseeing the servers, and then

01:00:32.240 he winds up in hot water, thanks to Durham.

01:00:34.220 Well, he's not named and he's not indicted.

01:00:35.980 It's this guy Sussman.

01:00:37.280 Again, it's in the context of the case against Sussman that his name came up.

01:00:41.360 Um, those around him circle the wagons, Paul, and they say, this is not a political guy.

01:00:46.820 He doesn't, this is not, this isn't some Hillary operative tech executive one, meaning Jaffe.

01:00:52.840 And you lay it out in your piece very clearly.

01:00:55.560 Indeed, he is.

01:00:56.820 He's made it pretty clear where his loyalties were.

01:01:01.220 That's right.

01:01:02.040 I mean, he, uh, Durham, uh, uncovered an email 2016 where, um, Jaffe was telling a colleague,

01:01:09.680 listen, I've, I've been promised, I was promised a top job, cybersecurity job in a Hillary Clinton

01:01:16.880 administration.

01:01:18.500 So he had a vested interest in, um, you know, smearing Trump and, uh, uh, the crew that he

01:01:28.780 had, he had hired, uh, not hired, but, um, uh, he had enlisted and recruited to help with

01:01:36.380 Sussman and the Hillary Clinton campaign go data mine, all this, uh, information, all

01:01:42.700 these DNS logs on Trump.

01:01:45.340 Uh, they, there was a neat, another email where one of the lead researchers from Georgia tech

01:01:50.660 who's pals with, with Jaffe said, you know, the only reason we're doing this once they

01:01:55.540 couldn't find what Jaffe was telling them, you know, the narrative to create, uh, they

01:02:00.020 would say, Hey, he admitted the only reason we're doing this is because we all share a

01:02:04.420 hatred for Trump.

01:02:05.600 Yes.

01:02:05.920 And just to back you up, this is from your piece posted at real clear politics.

01:02:08.740 Again, it was real clear investigations.

01:02:10.660 Um, there's the email that you just referenced.

01:02:12.880 As Jaffe writes, uh, in 2016 is shortly after Clinton's lost to Trump in November, 2016,

01:02:18.300 he writes, I was tentatively offered at the top cybersecurity job by the Democrats when

01:02:23.100 it looked like they'd win.

01:02:24.140 And then he goes on, I definitely would not take the job under Trump.

01:02:27.560 And then to your point, those who were helping Jaffe, his lead researcher, Manos Anton, Anton,

01:02:34.760 Anton Akakis, okay.

01:02:36.120 Of the Georgia Institute of Technology revealed in one email obtained by Durham.

01:02:40.000 You write that quote, the only thing that drives us is that we just don't like Trump.

01:02:45.100 So let's get to what they did.

01:02:47.200 Uh, you know, that, that became the subject of this motion Sussman filed.

01:02:50.940 Again, these people are not indicted.

01:02:52.260 Sussman is the one who's indicted so far.

01:02:54.860 Jaffe's not.

01:02:55.640 And this guy, Anton Akakis is not.

01:02:58.400 Who knows where the investigation goes, but he's certainly looking at all these people to

01:03:02.680 figure out what they did.

01:03:03.820 So Jaffe, Jaffe has pleaded the fifth.

01:03:07.040 He was subpoenaed and he's pleaded the fifth to protect himself from self-incrimination.

01:03:12.920 To be very right, he's not been charged at this point.

01:03:16.080 But so what did they do?

01:03:17.460 Walk us through it, Paul.

01:03:18.520 Like what?

01:03:19.260 Because, you know, there was a lot of, you know, Trump's like, it's worse than Watergate

01:03:22.980 what they did to us. 1.00

01:03:23.960 And then the media, they were like, this is bullshit. 1.00

01:03:26.860 There's once again, I can't ring in my dirty mouth. 1.00

01:03:29.060 I gave up swearing for Lent, Paul. 0.90

01:03:30.200 The media is like, this is a lie.

01:03:33.480 There was no spying.

01:03:35.580 I saw, I think it was Tom Winter on MSNBC on Morning Joe one day, who I like and I respect

01:03:41.400 Tom, but he was saying he didn't steal anything.

01:03:45.260 He basically was like a doorman standing at the door who had access to certain things and

01:03:53.380 then maybe just kind of passed on that same access to somebody else coming through the

01:03:57.540 door.

01:03:57.740 I'm like, what?

01:03:59.000 He said it better than that in his defense.

01:04:01.040 But they really ran cover for what actually happened, saying, you know, he had total access.

01:04:06.180 He had rightful access to the data that OK, that may be true.

01:04:09.820 So did Edward Snowden sort of.

01:04:11.640 Right.

01:04:11.800 But like what you then do with the data matters.

01:04:14.500 You take it from there.

01:04:16.440 OK, so Jaffe, even though he's near the top of this conspiracy that Durham is investigating,

01:04:21.160 which is Clinton campaign operatives were spying on Trump's Internet traffic to try and make

01:04:29.420 it look and then data mining it, trying to make it look cherry picking data, trying to

01:04:33.840 make it look creating this narrative that he was secretly communicating with the Kremlin

01:04:39.520 in Russia, which Durham is completely debunked in his speaking indictments.

01:04:45.760 But Jaffe wasn't the guy actually doing the hands on mining.

01:04:51.280 He held the key to the data through his contracts with his Internet startup companies and also through

01:04:59.940 Newstar, who was a big beltway bandit with huge contracts with the government in Washington.

01:05:05.740 And then he recruited and enlisted these Georgia Tech contractors, computer contractors who

01:05:15.780 were vying for a very lucrative Pentagon contract worth millions of dollars at the time.

01:05:23.020 So they also had fiduciary interest in helping the Clinton campaign, not just their own personal

01:05:32.040 political bias biases.

01:05:33.440 And so they actually were tasked by Jaffe to go through the holdings of DNS logs.

01:05:42.400 This is the main name system records.

01:05:46.320 Basically, put it simply, this is the pinging back and forth between your phone, your cell phones

01:05:53.800 and your computers and servers, including servers that are transmitting emails.

01:05:58.980 And so they were going in there and looking through the holdings of that, that Jaffe had access 0.99

01:06:07.940 to.

01:06:09.940 And then eventually Georgia Tech researchers landed that contract with the Pentagon.

01:06:19.500 This is the research arm of the Pentagon that they're working for.

01:06:22.900 And now they've got their own access, you know, their own own access to these holdings.

01:06:31.860 But back then in 2016, that's what they were doing.

01:06:35.960 And they were also tasked with looking.

01:06:38.500 There was a five page dossier that Fusion GPS put together for Jaffe and his crew.

01:06:44.620 And Jaffe, in turn, gave that to his crew and said, hey, also scoured the internet data for dirt

01:06:55.980 on these guys.

01:06:57.460 And I'm told that these guys, these other, these, and the document is called Trump's associates

01:07:03.760 list.

01:07:04.440 And so that list included Papadopoulos, George Papadopoulos, Lieutenant General Flynn, Paul

01:07:13.500 Manafort, and Carter Page, and also Steve Bannon.

01:07:19.400 Of course.

01:07:20.300 Okay.

01:07:21.180 So they were, they weren't just spying on Trump.

01:07:25.260 They were looking in this data, which is pretty sensitive.

01:07:29.160 Some of it is public, a lot of it was non-public, and you're talking about millions of records.

01:07:36.200 And these are the gatekeepers of the internet, these guys.

01:07:40.380 You know, they're not just geeks.

01:07:42.040 They have political agendas and access to crime.

01:07:45.140 And that's scary because who else are they spying on?

01:07:48.140 You know, they're looking at millions of records that are generated, you know, you and I right

01:07:54.520 now, and they are looking at them daily and they have access that other people don't have

01:07:58.900 to because of these government contractors and no one's vetting them.

01:08:02.920 And that's, that's scary because you're, and I think Durham has stumbled into a potentially

01:08:09.360 even bigger scandal here.

01:08:10.940 And that is privacy rights violations.

01:08:13.700 Um, you know, on a massive scale.

01:08:18.000 Um, and I've talked to a number of their colleagues, um, who weren't part of this operation, this

01:08:24.880 confidential project assessment, build it as for Hillary and they're pissed. 1.00

01:08:31.460 You know, they, they want, um, those Georgia Tech guys, Jaffe, of course, uh, their contracts

01:08:39.520 to be canceled.

01:08:40.340 Of course.

01:08:40.820 They haven't been?

01:08:41.680 No, they're still working on those contracts and, you know, they still have access to all

01:08:48.500 that data on all of us.

01:08:51.000 Oh, that's unbelievable.

01:08:52.800 And they used, they exploited it for political purposes.

01:08:55.820 And a lot of people I talked to in the FBI, former FBI and justice prosecutors see that

01:09:01.460 as a potential crime.

01:09:03.300 But, you know, beyond that, um, you know, this raises a number of privacy issues because

01:09:11.660 these guys, these guys I talked to said, look, these guys were trusted with this data and

01:09:15.920 these were clear privacy violations.

01:09:18.360 They should not be anywhere near these contracts anymore.

01:09:21.320 It's unbelievable that this guy is pleading the fifth and yet he still, as you put it, has

01:09:26.040 the keys that, you know, he is perfectly willing to hand out from what we learned from Durham

01:09:31.680 to those keys to anyone that he's still in charge.

01:09:35.820 He still has all the access and maybe Georgia Tech does too.

01:09:39.300 He was, well, he's no longer at New Star.

01:09:43.140 So a couple of weeks before, uh, the Durham indictment was unsealed, uh, he left or was

01:09:51.180 forced out at New Star.

01:09:53.020 By the way, New Star, Durham's also looking at New Star and, um, has already subpoenaed

01:09:58.560 thousands of documents from New Star.

01:10:01.500 And this is, this is pretty interesting.

01:10:03.380 This is kind of buried in my story and I encourage your viewers and listeners to go to RealClearInvestigations.com

01:10:09.440 and read the full article.

01:10:12.280 It's all the details are in there laid out.

01:10:14.720 Well, um, but, uh, Durham in one of his indictments, uh, actually said that Sussman and Perkins

01:10:25.520 Corp, this is the lawyer for Hillary's campaign, build New Star itself for the confidential project.

01:10:35.360 And that's the Alpha Bank business that, that they were working on to try and frame Trump.

01:10:41.760 Why?

01:10:42.320 So New Star's leadership knew about this project.

01:10:46.540 It wasn't just Jaffe.

01:10:47.380 So, so just to, just to, just to reiterate that.

01:10:52.340 So Hillary Clinton's campaign lawyers build New Star, the company that was operating the 0.80

01:10:59.920 servers or an opposition research project for the Hillary plant campaign.

01:11:05.420 Yeah.

01:11:06.740 And he's got a document.

01:11:07.880 She's got billing records showing that.

01:11:09.580 And this is another part of the story, which is huge is follow the money trail.

01:11:13.200 Uh, and Durham's, Durham's investigators are doing that.

01:11:17.420 And by the way, he just hired, uh, this is last month.

01:11:23.740 He just hired another prosecutor and, uh, she has a background as a trial attorney prosecuting

01:11:32.500 fraud and money laundering cases, which is very interesting.

01:11:36.980 Well, because what they seem to be saying, correct me if I'm wrong, you're, you've been

01:11:40.260 following this way more closely, what, um, Jaffe seems to be saying is that a, he did nothing

01:11:47.460 criminal, but B given the hack of the democratic national committee that had happened not too

01:11:54.280 long before this, it was actually his job.

01:11:57.400 This is what we've heard, you know, from his surrogates to monitor communications and make

01:12:02.220 sure there was no red flag suggesting a hack or an inappropriate Russian presence.

01:12:08.360 And that's what he and his team were allegedly worried about.

01:12:12.920 And I'll let you respond to that.

01:12:14.120 But the, the, even if you accept that, how does that explain him seeing a red flag?

01:12:21.340 And instead of, you know, going directly to the FBI and saying there's a problem instead,

01:12:28.520 he goes to Hillary Clinton's campaign lawyers.

01:12:31.840 Oh, what?

01:12:33.000 Right.

01:12:34.680 So, yes, you, you nailed it.

01:12:36.620 So, you know, here you have these guys and they're claiming that, Hey, we're just looking

01:12:41.180 out for national security interests here and we're worried about Russia.

01:12:45.980 And so, okay.

01:12:47.420 So their job typically is supposed to spot threats, you know, hacking, spamming, phishing

01:12:55.640 threats on the internet.

01:12:57.840 Okay.

01:12:58.860 And that's what those contracts are for through, through the Pentagon and why they're, they

01:13:04.540 had that contract to monitor the EOP in the white house.

01:13:08.260 But as you said, so if you're finding some threats, like you claimed you saw, which by

01:13:15.340 the way, we're not, you know, they've been completely debunked.

01:13:18.340 First of all, it's the first problem with that.

01:13:20.140 But if they were finding genuine threats, you would go to the authorities directly with

01:13:26.760 those threats and report them.

01:13:29.060 Instead, they handed them off to Hillary's people who they knew were doing opposition

01:13:35.560 research on Trump.

01:13:37.220 And, and this guy, Jaffe is, has apparently admitted, according to Durham, that that was

01:13:44.160 the team offering him a job if she should win.

01:13:46.780 I mean, and to your, to our earlier discussion, it's not exactly like this guy has this squeakiest,

01:13:54.120 you know, resume prior to getting to this job.

01:13:57.300 That would make us think he would never, he would never cross an ethical line.

01:14:00.840 And we certainly have some questions.

01:14:03.120 All right, wait, there's much more to discuss on this and some other issues that we're going

01:14:07.200 to get to with Paul Sperry, a brilliant journalist, investigative, who's actually doing the work

01:14:10.920 on this case, unlike virtually everyone else.

01:14:13.420 Again, he's with realclearinvestigations.com.

01:14:16.000 You can find his piece there.

01:14:17.400 Let me get the actual title for you because it's so good.

01:14:19.320 It's, it's entitled The Checkered Past of the FBI Cyber Contractor Who Spied on Trump.

01:14:27.420 So again, Jaffe not charged with a crime, Sussman denying that he committed a crime.

01:14:39.020 Were you able to get a statement at all from Jaffe, who now you say is pleading the fifth?

01:14:43.260 Nope.

01:14:44.180 He's not talking, just statement through his attorney who said that, hey, listen, this guy

01:14:49.360 had access to this, this data through his contracts and he was looking at threats and that's what

01:14:55.640 he's, that's their story.

01:14:56.860 They're sticking to it.

01:14:58.440 But, you know, he has refused to cooperate with Durham's investigators and his grand jury.

01:15:06.040 And so to me, that, that shows that, you know, he's worried, he's worried, you know, he's,

01:15:17.060 he's pled the fifth, he's not cooperating and he's really hunkered down right now.

01:15:22.420 But he, I'm told is it or near the top of this conspiracy and, um, a central player.

01:15:31.760 Now, when this story broke, it, it was covered mostly by more conservative media, Fox News,

01:15:37.940 Daily Wire, and so on, and New York Post.

01:15:41.220 And immediately, as I referenced, you had MSNBC and CNN and, uh, you know, sort of the more

01:15:47.480 mainstream, the New York Times, you know, very lengthy piece tried to explain to us why

01:15:51.360 this wasn't a story.

01:15:52.420 And took issue with the, and took issue with the term spying.

01:15:58.280 There was no spying.

01:15:59.640 There was no infestation of anything or invasion of anything.

01:16:04.060 And, um, this is a little flashback of some of what we heard, um, about how there was no

01:16:10.740 spying.

01:16:11.200 There was no spying on Trump.

01:16:12.700 It's completely wrong.

01:16:14.540 It did not, it did not happen.

01:16:16.280 This was, there was no spying.

01:16:17.960 There was, uh, it's, it's pizza game.

01:16:20.760 The conspiracy gene.

01:16:22.120 Exactly.

01:16:22.540 It's pizza game.

01:16:23.320 The conspiracy gene is no more accurate than pizza game.

01:16:26.600 No one was spying on the president through the microwave.

01:16:29.040 No one spied on the Trump campaign.

01:16:31.940 There was no spying.

01:16:33.400 There was no spying.

01:16:34.640 No spying.

01:16:35.500 There was no spying.

01:16:36.740 There was no spying.

01:16:37.740 There was no spying.

01:16:38.580 There was no spying.

01:16:39.720 There was no spying.

01:16:40.520 There was no spying.

01:16:41.300 Wow.

01:16:44.480 By the way, there was no spying, of course.

01:16:48.500 There was no spying.

01:16:49.840 There was no spying.

01:16:51.060 On the Trump campaign.

01:16:52.020 On the Trump campaign.

01:16:53.080 It's been a year and a half.

01:16:54.240 There was no spying on the Trump campaign. 1.00

01:16:56.020 Of this crap. 0.99

01:16:56.840 No spying on the Trump campaign. 1.00

01:16:58.300 Which is a conspiracy theory.

01:16:59.760 No spying on the Trump campaign.

01:17:01.420 Facts matter.

01:17:02.080 And, oh, by the way, no.

01:17:04.320 There was no.

01:17:05.220 There was no.

01:17:06.020 No, no.

01:17:06.640 No spying on the Trump campaign.

01:17:09.300 Yeah, so you get the picture.

01:17:10.740 That was actually before I think this report dropped. But we heard similar stuff right after, too, saying no spying and the media has gotten this all wrong and there's no there there. Your reaction to it?

01:17:20.600 Well, they parroted the talking points. They were fed really well. I guarantee none of those talking heads have read any of the filings, definitely didn't read the 30 odd page original speaking indictment, which is complex for anybody.

01:17:38.160 You know, you're talking about all this cyber forensics and, you know, DNS logs and everything. So they're just talking at a superficial level. They have no idea what Durham has uncovered.

01:17:50.600 And what's really shameful is that none of the big media have have gone into those details and just reported the facts.

01:18:02.400 They've just dismissed things at a superficial level without getting down and doing the spade work and finding out exactly what Durham is uncovering.

01:18:16.040 And by the way, yes, sorry, go ahead.

01:18:17.600 He's interviewed dozens of witnesses and you're talking about tens of thousands of pages of documents, text messages, emails and billing records that that he's been able to subpoena with his grand jury.

01:18:34.660 By the way, he's got two grand jury up and running, one in D.C. and another in Virginia in a different case involving the dossier, the primary source of the dossier, Danchenko.

01:18:46.840 So this is a very elaborate, intricate, complex investigation that he's doing.

01:18:58.400 And for political reasons, obviously, the talking heads, just trying to dismiss it.

01:19:06.220 And New York Times and Washington Post, you put that really well, you know, they're trying to they're not reporting on it.

01:19:12.240 They're just trying to say why it's not a story to shoot it down.

01:19:15.000 And again, they're trying to Russiagate was their big their Pulitzer Prizes and they are loathed to have that all unraveled.

01:19:28.060 And that that is exactly what's what's been happening.

01:19:30.940 It started with the Horowitz report.

01:19:32.420 Actually, Mueller, who just found a big nothing burger in terms of the conspiracy, the Trump Russia conspiracy, and then Horowitz took it another level and discredited the dossier.

01:19:46.980 And now Durham is finding even more pager to refute all that.

01:19:55.020 And his final report is going to be, you know, boil the oceans if Biden's attorney general doesn't deep six it.

01:20:06.740 Wow. Really?

01:20:08.320 I mean, why?

01:20:09.920 Because so far, it's, you know, what what you hear is it's a yawn.

01:20:14.180 It's like so far they've got, OK, somebody related to the dossier and then they got that's a lawyer who like told him.

01:20:21.640 I mean, lying to the FBI is always the thing they get you on when they can't get you on anything real.

01:20:26.600 Right. So like that's I've heard even smart people I respect say things like that about the Durham investigation so far.

01:20:32.720 So why are you saying it's going to be a boil the oceans moment?

01:20:35.560 I've never heard that term. I like it.

01:20:37.680 Well, Mueller, Mueller didn't come up with any big hits.

01:20:43.520 You know, all of his prosecutions were for process crimes, essentially.

01:20:48.560 But what Durham Durham is up against is statute of limitations, you know, five year federal statute of limitations.

01:20:58.080 I'm told he's building a conspiracy case may needs to be seen.

01:21:01.760 I have skepticism about that.

01:21:05.800 But if he is building a conspiracy case, he's not affected by the statute of limitations.

01:21:10.280 And, you know, aside from what other indictments he comes up with, potentially, the file reports are going to be devastating to the whole Russiagate narrative.

01:21:24.220 And it's imperative that the American people see it, understand it, without it being redacted and blacked out.

01:21:37.660 And.

01:21:38.180 It's up to Attorney General Garland whether or not he's going to do that and let the public see that report.

01:21:47.000 I mean, he has to if he does.

01:21:49.160 Yeah, if he if he does, if he doesn't.

01:21:53.140 Now, Durham probably won't have the report out before the November election.

01:21:58.060 And Republicans are expected to win back control of the committees, investigative committees and the gavels for the hearings and subpoena power.

01:22:08.480 So if it's pushed past that, it has a really good chance of seeing the light of day and being forced through the media cover up, you know, break break through through hearings and subpoenaing, subpoenaing Durham to testify.

01:22:24.140 If, you know, if, you know, they try to, you know, deep six report, you know, Republicans can push push it out there after November or actually after January when they get get control, especially in the House, maybe the Senate.

01:22:42.140 So what does the time frame look like that Durham's under?

01:22:45.040 Because, you know, these grand juries have limited time frames that they can set.

01:22:48.840 You know, everybody is complaining.

01:22:52.140 Complaining. That's why I think large part Fox News backed off the story until recently is because they felt like he was dragging his feet and there's going to be a whole lot of nothing.

01:23:05.980 But his reputation for being, you know, methodical, fastidious to a fault and moving at a glacial pace.

01:23:13.680 Plus, to be fair to him, he was hampered and hamstrung by COVID restrictions in D.C., which were off the charts.

01:23:22.140 That's what they were doing in D.C. for COVID restrictions.

01:23:24.360 So he couldn't panel his his grand jury for hearings.

01:23:28.880 FBI agents couldn't do face to face investigations.

01:23:31.960 And so I think we'll see this thing speed up here as the as they remove some of these COVID restrictions going forward.

01:23:43.420 What what I want to just on the subject of the media, covering it up and downplaying it.

01:23:49.160 Here's an example. This is from The New York Times and a piece by Charlie Savage that got a lot of response.

01:23:55.300 The headline was court filing started a furor in right wing outlets.

01:24:00.060 But their narrative is off track and they try to excuse, you know, what Jaffe did and so on.

01:24:06.380 But this let me read you this line from his piece.

01:24:10.020 He says, upon close inspection, these narratives being pushed are often based on a misleading presentation of the facts or outright misinformation.

01:24:18.800 They also tend to involve dense and obscure issues.

01:24:23.180 So dissecting them requires asking readers to expend significant mental energy and time, raising the question of whether news outlets should even cover such claims.

01:24:34.140 What? Wait, why?

01:24:36.900 Why does that do you write for a bunch of dumb asses? 1.00

01:24:39.900 Because my audience can understand this just fine. 1.00

01:24:42.040 Dumb people. 1.00

01:24:42.660 Paul, sorry, go ahead, Paul. 1.00

01:24:45.840 Crazy, crazy. 0.96

01:24:47.240 That that that's a classic line.

01:24:49.620 It should telegraph to everybody the bias that's going on in The New York Times and covering this story.

01:24:56.160 It's the too complex to cover excuse.

01:24:59.560 It's never been heard of in the history of journalism.

01:25:04.300 Journalists job is to take complex information and distill it down into its simplest terms so the readers can understand it.

01:25:13.240 And I mean, that's her job.

01:25:15.460 So he's basically saying, oh, we're we're committing malpractice here and we're not going to tell you what's what's going on with this.

01:25:22.000 I had to work too hard.

01:25:23.240 I didn't I would have.

01:25:23.880 Yeah, we're going to have to work too hard and you're going to have to work too hard to figure it out, even though it's our job to help you understand it.

01:25:31.600 But we don't like it is what he's really saying is we don't like it.

01:25:34.200 And so we don't want to cover it.

01:25:35.260 And that's actually the most honest thing I've read in The Times in a while.

01:25:37.820 But all right, some pushback because the judge in the overall Durham case, the one that's looking into Sussman, didn't really like this piece of Durham's brief.

01:25:49.740 Judge Christopher Cooper, D.C. District Court, that's the federal trial court there in D.C., apparently in a hearing, according to CNN, said this was unnecessary for you to include in this piece.

01:26:04.140 He said, including this material in this motion, it was not necessary for me, let alone for Mr. Sussman.

01:26:11.160 I didn't see any link to areas that were relevant.

01:26:14.240 I didn't need any of that ancillary information.

01:26:16.940 I don't know why the information was in there.

01:26:20.080 And Sussman, he argued that it was incendiary and that he wanted it stricken.

01:26:26.160 That was denied.

01:26:27.440 That didn't happen.

01:26:28.680 But this is the judge saying to Durham, what are you doing?

01:26:32.080 Why did you why did you go down that lane in this relatively simple filing about conflict of interest?

01:26:37.240 Who are you trying to please with this stuff?

01:26:39.300 So what do you make of that?

01:26:41.440 Oh, well, the judge is showing his hand a little bit there.

01:26:46.040 Something that Durham is up against, you know, not just with the D.C. judges who tend to be Democrats.

01:26:52.200 I think Cooper is a bomb appointee.

01:26:54.160 Is that right?

01:26:56.080 Are you asking me?

01:26:57.200 I'm not 100 percent on that, but I think so.

01:26:59.540 He's not only having to deal with Democrat Trump hating judges to to hear his cases, but if they go to trial, which these two are expected to go to trial, Dan Chanko as well.

01:27:15.880 You know, he's dealing with with D.C. jurors, which is tough for him, although the Dan Chanko case, he'll be dealing with Eastern Virginia district.

01:27:30.840 So a little bit different animal there, perhaps.

01:27:34.700 He is, by the way, an Obama appointee, this judge.

01:27:37.120 He is.

01:27:38.800 OK, so there you go.

01:27:41.120 So he's going to he's going to have a rough time, just like he had a rough time.

01:27:46.020 With the judge, you heard the Kevin Clinesmith, the FBI, senior FBI lawyer who was indicted, you know, related to falsifying information to obtain a FISA warrant to spy on Trump advisor Carter Page.

01:28:03.320 So that guy got a slap, you know, they were asking for prison time.

01:28:09.260 The judge, who's a real Democrat activist from a long, you know, his family is a bunch of Democrat activists in Boesburg, I think was his name.

01:28:23.180 Judge Boesburg gave the guy a slap in the wrist.

01:28:25.980 OK, let's zoom out, though, because now that's too far down a rabbit hole that I didn't that I didn't I didn't appropriately.

01:28:33.000 Yeah, so so there's so there's there's another Democrat judge face.

01:28:36.580 He didn't get a prison prison sentence for a huge case.

01:28:41.600 I mean, this guy was lying to the FISA court and got a slap in the wrist where all he had to do is write for his favorite liberal newsletter in D.C.

01:28:50.740 for it to satisfy his voluntary time under probation.

01:28:56.880 Oh, wow.

01:28:58.380 OK, so let's let's zoom out in the minutes that we have less left.

01:29:02.540 If if I had you over to a dinner party, Paul, and we had people like my mom there who don't.

01:29:08.860 She's definitely not reading real clear investigations and she probably doesn't totally understand what Russiagate was.

01:29:14.800 She knows it was bad and that the media messed it up, but not much more.

01:29:18.460 How would you explain what what Durham is doing here and what basically what happened here and what is the likely outcome of his investigation?

01:29:29.600 Well, he like, you know, his original scope of his of his investigation was laid out.

01:29:36.340 He's looking at the counterintelligence operation that the FBI primarily ran against Trump and his in his advisers and seeing if there was any criminal element to it.

01:29:52.040 And he's finding that there's all sorts of stuff going on with with the Hillary campaign being involved, including with the FBI, as we're finding.

01:30:04.420 And he's got a lot that we don't know about and we won't know until we see his final report, because his shop is airtight.

01:30:16.420 I mean, this guy does not leak, unlike Mueller, whose office leaked like a sieve.

01:30:23.420 And so we'll we'll have to see.

01:30:29.420 But, you know, his final reports are going to be literally thousands of pages.

01:30:34.420 I mean, this this guy, the amount of voluminous documentation that he's uncovered.

01:30:42.420 But like I said, it's going to boil the ocean if it's allowed, if it's not just blacked out page after page after page.

01:30:53.080 Right. Yeah, we will.

01:30:55.740 We will anxiously look forward to that.

01:30:58.340 Paul, thank you so much for the deep dive.

01:31:00.560 Really interesting to everybody to go read the original piece and to read everything Paul writes, because he's willing to do the work.

01:31:06.960 Been a pleasure. Monday, we've got David Leonhardt back of The New York Times.

01:31:09.860 He's getting pummeled. We'll tell you why.

01:31:11.220 And I want to tell you something else. Last night, I conducted the longest interview I've ever done for the show.

01:31:15.240 Four hours. You'll know the name. It's going to be big.

01:31:17.580 There's a tease.

01:31:21.320 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:31:23.380 No BS, no agenda and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 11, 2022

Media's ＂Don't Say Gay＂ Misinformation, and Durham Probe Reality, with Dave Rubin and Paul Sperry ｜ Ep. 278

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