The Megyn Kelly Show - Media's False ＂Maryland Dad＂ Narrative and Left's Spin on Illegal Gang Members, with Steve Deace, Delano Squires, and Joseph Massey ｜ Ep. 1049

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00:00:31.200 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:42.660 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.980 Later, my favorite poet and yours, Joseph Massey, will be here with his latest book.

00:00:51.420 We are supporting him because we love his poetry.

00:00:53.320 He gets Trump, he gets MAGA, and then of course he got canceled.

00:00:58.280 But we will not allow him to remain canceled because we have power on the right too,

00:01:03.480 even over the arts and the artists who the left decides we're supposed to hate.

00:01:08.040 But we begin with the news and it involves immigration today

00:01:13.120 as the corporate media continues to completely misrepresent the now viral case

00:01:17.200 of this guy, Albrego Garcia.

00:01:20.140 Just a Maryland father, according to the media.

00:01:22.860 He's just a Maryland dad.

00:01:24.360 We've even crossed over to some describing him as a U.S. man, an American man.

00:01:30.260 He is not an American man. 0.98

00:01:32.100 He is an El Salvadorian who was here illegally under everyone's assessment who's taken a look at this.

00:01:39.880 I mean, there's no question he was here illegally. 0.76

00:01:41.700 There's no question.

00:01:42.520 But it's being misrepresented by the media left and right.

00:01:46.680 The story's been brought back into the spotlight because El Salvador President Bukele visited the White House yesterday

00:01:52.220 amid his budding bromance with President T.

00:01:55.200 And it really is very funny.

00:01:57.660 He sent out some tweet after the meeting like,

00:01:59.740 I miss President T.

00:02:01.000 I can't remember what it said, but it was something very strange.

00:02:03.420 It was bromance-y.

00:02:04.620 But what happened inside the Oval was very consequential when it comes to this case

00:02:09.980 and, of course, its implications for President Trump's powers to deport illegals in the country.

00:02:14.700 Joining me now to discuss this and all the news, Steve Dace,

00:02:17.620 best-selling author and host of The Steve Dace Show on Blaze TV,

00:02:21.680 and Delano Squires, contributor to The Blaze and research fellow at the Heritage Foundation.

00:02:26.680 Aren't you tired of the corporate media prioritizing certain narratives over the facts?

00:02:32.560 I was, too.

00:02:33.520 And, too.

00:02:34.440 And that's why we started this show, to have real conversations full of tough questions to get to the truth.

00:02:39.300 And it's why I want to tell you about Ground News,

00:02:41.500 an independent app and website not at the mercy of corporate control.

00:02:45.460 They prioritize transparency, so you can compare coverage on any issue and think for yourself

00:02:50.100 instead of letting someone else do the thinking for you.

00:02:53.060 They even show important stories that the other side is ignoring.

00:02:56.060 Go to groundnews.com slash Megan and see it in action.

00:03:00.460 With so many outlets suppressing conservative views and ignoring facts,

00:03:03.680 Ground News is more important than ever.

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00:03:21.960 to invest in your ability to think critically about the news.

00:03:27.060 Guys, welcome back to the show.

00:03:29.140 Good to be here.

00:03:30.220 Good to be with you, Megan.

00:03:31.640 Great to see you.

00:03:32.540 Okay, so this guy, Kilmar Abrego Garcia,

00:03:37.300 is not a U.S. citizen.

00:03:40.120 He is from El Salvador.

00:03:41.260 He was brought here when he was 16 by his parents.

00:03:43.680 He got arrested around, let's see, it was 2019.

00:03:48.960 And he was like 19 or 20 at that time.

00:03:53.380 He was arrested outside of a Home Depot in Hyattsville, Maryland

00:03:56.880 by Prince George County police officers on suspicion of being a gang member.

00:04:02.620 Okay, so that he, nobody was bothering him.

00:04:05.760 He was here, brought over.

00:04:06.900 They call him so-called dreamers when it's their parents who bring them.

00:04:09.580 They don't come willingly.

00:04:10.700 But he was, no question, he entered illegally.

00:04:12.380 But then he was suspected of being a gang member,

00:04:16.700 and that found him in the crosshairs of law enforcement.

00:04:19.440 And they handed him over to ICE.

00:04:21.740 They recognized that he was not here illegally.

00:04:24.780 The following day, he was served with a notice of appear,

00:04:27.480 to appear, and that commenced removal proceedings against him,

00:04:32.360 pursuant to 8 U.S.C. section 1229A.

00:04:35.760 He was charged as removable.

00:04:37.660 The government was recognizing he was here unlawfully,

00:04:41.080 and on top of that, he appeared to have behaved unlawfully,

00:04:44.040 though they did not need the latter in order to deport him.

00:04:48.620 Just the fact that you're here illegally subjects you to being deported. 0.90

00:04:52.500 That's just the way it is.

00:04:55.900 Then he went through not one, but two court proceedings.

00:04:59.820 The first was a bond hearing on April 29th, 2019,

00:05:02.840 with immigration judge Elizabeth Kessler,

00:05:05.080 who ruled the evidence showed he was a verified member of MS-13.

00:05:10.480 He was afforded a hearing at which he presented evidence,

00:05:15.240 and so did the other side.

00:05:17.160 The court, quote, first reasoned that the respondent failed to meet his burden

00:05:22.060 of demonstrating that his release from custody would not pose a danger to others,

00:05:26.140 as the evidence shows he's a verified member of MS-13.

00:05:29.580 On December 19th, 2019, so, you know, some, what, eight months later or so,

00:05:36.080 the Board of Immigration Appeals affirmed that finding that he was a member of MS-13.

00:05:41.200 Quote,

00:05:41.440 Notwithstanding the respondent's challenges to the reliability of the Prince George's County

00:05:47.140 Police Department gang field interview sheet,

00:05:50.100 the immigration judge appropriately considered allegations of gang affiliation against the

00:05:54.020 respondent in determining that he has not demonstrated that he's not a danger to property

00:05:59.100 or persons here.

00:05:59.920 Then, as he realized he was about to be actually kicked out of the country,

00:06:05.040 he had already been deemed not qualified for bond,

00:06:08.280 he applied for asylum, even though it was much too late,

00:06:11.280 you have to apply for asylum within a year of getting here,

00:06:13.600 and then, not coincidentally, also asked for something called withholding from removal

00:06:19.540 from El Salvador in particular,

00:06:22.360 allegedly due to threats from gangs.

00:06:23.960 It was his, it was his safety, uh, move.

00:06:28.480 Like, if, if you won't give me asylum,

00:06:30.180 then please at least say they can't send me back to El Salvador

00:06:32.740 because there are mean gangs there who want to hurt me and my family.

00:06:36.840 And on October 10th, 2019, he was granted not asylum,

00:06:42.460 but withholding of removal to El Salvador.

00:06:45.520 After the immigration judge agreed, he had established it was more likely than not

00:06:49.520 that he would be persecuted by gangs in El Salvador.

00:06:52.480 ICE did not appeal that grant of relief,

00:06:55.700 and plaintiff Abrego Garcia was then promptly released from custody.

00:06:59.860 ICE arrested him in Baltimore this past March,

00:07:04.600 um, under the Trump deportation, uh, push.

00:07:07.820 So that's his history.

00:07:09.700 He is under an order of removal.

00:07:12.460 And at that moment, where the judge found he didn't qualify for bond

00:07:16.600 and that he was removable, just not to El Salvador,

00:07:20.580 he could have been deported to any country in the world.

00:07:23.800 The only arguably wrong thing that's happened here

00:07:27.460 is that when Trump deported him,

00:07:29.420 he sent him to the man's home country of El Salvador.

00:07:33.740 But even that has two potential hooks out of it for the Trump administration.

00:07:38.080 One, if the circumstance that led to the danger for you in that country you're objecting to go into

00:07:44.360 has been removed, then you can be sent back.

00:07:47.680 And that gang that was allegedly persecuting him is no more in El Salvador.

00:07:51.700 So that's one.

00:07:52.800 Two, Stephen Miller argued this yesterday,

00:07:55.500 that President Trump has declared MS-13, uh, a terrorist organization

00:08:01.000 and ordered all these suspected terrorists to be removed, period,

00:08:06.700 which is a different kind of removal

00:08:08.600 and may supersede the withholding of removal, removal, um, order.

00:08:14.880 That, that's something they'd have to argue in court

00:08:16.600 and it would have to play out and it hasn't yet.

00:08:18.100 But I did take note of Stephen Miller's emphasis on the,

00:08:22.600 he's a terrorist and President Bukele of El Salvador mentioned that word too.

00:08:27.160 And it seems to me that they're trying to tee up yet another legal argument

00:08:29.960 as to why even the order not to remove him to El Salvador

00:08:33.860 would not be in control with over this particular guy

00:08:37.320 because of Trump's immigration ruling.

00:08:39.520 Okay.

00:08:39.860 So that's where we are now.

00:08:41.160 But that leads me to the media today,

00:08:43.760 which has decided he is not, uh, an illegal, he is a Maryland man.

00:08:50.580 That is basically what the media wants us to believe,

00:08:53.440 that, um, he's this really sweet guy who, um, is just a dad in Maryland

00:08:59.040 and the mean, mean, uh, Trump administration is trying to kick him out.

00:09:03.660 We don't understand why they're doing that.

00:09:05.060 It feels very wrong to the media.

00:09:07.620 Here's a little bit of a stop montage of some of that,

00:09:11.440 talking about him just a Maryland dad, guys.

00:09:13.560 That's all involving the Maryland father.

00:09:17.320 The Maryland father's case is in court and happening.

00:09:19.980 Now a hearing for a Maryland man details about a Maryland man tonight.

00:09:23.420 The Maryland man, the Maryland man,

00:09:25.520 Maryland father with protected legal status,

00:09:28.740 the Maryland father with protected status,

00:09:31.220 Maryland father with protected legal status,

00:09:33.720 Maryland father with protected legal status.

00:09:37.100 I think that was newsbusters who put that together.

00:09:39.280 Very well done.

00:09:40.800 It really tells the story.

00:09:41.700 Not, not one fact that I've just espoused in laying out this story for you

00:09:47.100 and for our audience for the fourth time, uh,

00:09:49.940 was repeated in these reports because they're not helpful to the narrative.

00:09:53.300 Maryland father, Steve is much more appealing.

00:09:57.300 Megan, I have to tell you this, this entire story.

00:09:59.680 There are two kind of meta things about this that stands out to me.

00:10:02.520 Number one, I mean, the,

00:10:03.480 the long train of due process, uh, that this, uh,

00:10:07.260 Maryland father, uh, has received.

00:10:10.880 Um, it, it, it's way more due process than the state of Colorado is, uh,

00:10:15.220 apparently willing to grant parents who don't want their kids, uh,

00:10:17.880 taken to the island of Dr.

00:10:19.080 Moreau against their own will.

00:10:20.160 And then they'll be put in jail if they don't consent.

00:10:23.380 I mean, I, apparently that this, this is the, goes to the, the lie, by the way,

00:10:26.600 we're a nation of immigrants.

00:10:27.560 When, when, when my ancestors came here from Italy and Sicily at the turn of the

00:10:30.960 last century, uh, they didn't view themselves as immigrants.

00:10:33.400 They wanted to become citizens.

00:10:34.560 We're a nation of citizens.

00:10:36.260 All right.

00:10:36.760 And so, uh, if any point in time, uh, the people that are lawfully here have

00:10:40.840 less rights than the people who are not, um, we've lost the plot. 0.90

00:10:44.200 And then speaking of which, you know, I, I, I think this entire story, this is the

00:10:48.760 other thing that kind of stands out to me about the meta aspects of this.

00:10:51.740 You know, I, I long for the days when the president was a Russian asset, uh, 1.00

00:10:55.580 Russian asset, uh, that was, uh, you know, uh, that was compromise, uh, because

00:10:59.840 of a, uh, of a water sports tape, uh, and he was engaged in a quid pro quo with

00:11:05.860 Ukraine, uh, and, and all the other great scandals.

00:11:09.160 The other side, the left is now down to how dare you deport this MS 13 gang 1.00

00:11:14.020 member.

00:11:14.340 And so I'm reminded of the great prophet Sun Tzu and his art of war. 0.97

00:11:17.900 When your opponent is making a fool out of themselves, let them. 0.96

00:11:21.600 Yeah. 0.96

00:11:22.180 It's so well said, you know, Delano, this Maryland man thing, and it's

00:11:26.740 newsbusters did a good job of showing how it's the exact same language being

00:11:30.920 used on multiple networks is such a lie.

00:11:34.480 It's an obvious lie.

00:11:35.600 They are obfuscating this.

00:11:37.020 And even when they, the ones who reference that there was a finding, he's part of

00:11:42.160 MS 13 that was upheld on appeal.

00:11:44.840 The next thing they do is attack the finding.

00:11:46.900 Well, it wasn't much evidence.

00:11:47.900 Well, you weren't there.

00:11:49.360 There was no, there was, it was appealed and it was upheld on appeal.

00:11:53.780 They're the ones who are lecturing us about, you have to respect the courts,

00:11:57.340 respect the courts or we're going to have a constitution.

00:11:59.100 Well, the courts handled this at the time with the Prince George's County gang unit.

00:12:04.480 And by the way, Prince George's County is not some far right County.

00:12:08.100 It's about as leftist as they come.

00:12:11.020 And now they want us, we're allowed to second guess that court, but no other court that says

00:12:16.000 he was removable or that the Trump administration made an error here.

00:12:21.000 Yeah.

00:12:21.520 I actually live in Prince George's County.

00:12:23.420 Not, not too far from Hyatt'sville.

00:12:25.720 So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm very familiar sort of with the political climate there.

00:12:28.740 Um, this has been, I think for people who are not following the news closely, a very confusing

00:12:35.540 case because there, there are different perspectives going back and forth, right.

00:12:40.080 Aside from the, the, the proper propaganda in terms of him being a Maryland man, right.

00:12:44.840 Sort of obfuscating his, his legal status.

00:12:47.580 Um, it's okay.

00:12:49.800 Is he a gang members?

00:12:51.060 Is he not a gang member?

00:12:52.460 Has he had his due process or has he not?

00:12:54.680 Um, did the Supreme, is the Supreme court saying, is there a different distinction between,

00:12:59.040 uh, facilitating his return and effectuating his return?

00:13:03.500 Um, what I look at are sort of, sort of big picture issues.

00:13:06.960 And I think there, there are ones that apply to, to each side one on the right.

00:13:12.220 I do think there's an issue of due process and taking it out of this case, right.

00:13:17.340 Um, we're a nation of laws.

00:13:20.380 People have rights.

00:13:21.320 Citizens to Steve's point have sort of the highest class of rights and, um, non-citizen 1.00

00:13:27.200 residents.

00:13:28.300 I don't, I'm not a lawyer, so I can't speak to, you know, what that set of rights looks

00:13:32.460 like, but I think there are some people who say, look, if he can be taken off the street

00:13:37.040 and sent back to El Salvador, what happens if, if that happens to me and my mom or my dad

00:13:42.680 is on a green card.

00:13:43.600 I understand those concerns, but the, on the other side, for people who believe that for

00:13:51.140 too long, the American government, both federal and local has prioritized the rights of criminals

00:13:57.600 over the rights of law-abiding citizens.

00:14:01.240 Um, this is a moment where we have to say, you know what, we don't have the stomach to

00:14:06.280 do what really needs to be done to make America safe again.

00:14:09.660 Uh, and we're going to have to develop it over time because if we freak out over every single

00:14:16.460 incident that the media can spin in a particular way, we're never going to get anywhere.

00:14:20.680 Um, and it's, it's ironic because, you know, President Trump was hosting, you know, the

00:14:25.140 president of El Salvador who basically said to the gangs, your time is up.

00:14:28.600 I'm rounding up everybody with, you know, extensive head and neck and arm tattoos and I'm

00:14:34.780 carting you off to jail.

00:14:36.460 And for someone like me who has openly questioned whether, you know, we could be a little bit

00:14:42.720 more, uh, innovative in some of our criminal justice policies to minimize the, the sort

00:14:49.220 of, uh, third party effects to, to innocent, uh, citizens.

00:14:53.580 I look at that and say, wow, this, this guy's doing something that in some respects I can get

00:14:58.640 behind, but I also know that that's not the way we do things in America.

00:15:01.940 So there's sort of a tension there.

00:15:04.240 And I think if you ask the average American citizen, Hey, if you could snap your finger 0.88

00:15:07.900 today and lock up every single gang member, bloods, Crips, neo-Nazis, uh, you know, Italian 0.97

00:15:15.360 mafia, Russian mafia.

00:15:17.120 I think many people will say yes, because we want our streets to be safe again.

00:15:21.020 So at a certain point, we're going to have to develop the stomach for this.

00:15:24.240 And we can't allow the media to take every individual incident and get us off track.

00:15:30.020 Mm-hmm.

00:15:30.480 Yeah.

00:15:30.660 And that's what they're doing.

00:15:31.640 So right now, um, this, this man is in an El Salvadoran prison, this one that we're sending 0.96

00:15:38.980 these illegals to.

00:15:40.760 And, um, the media back home is completely running cover for him.

00:15:45.960 Just a couple more examples of the ones I gave you, uh, Politico's headline, El Salvador

00:15:51.140 won't return wrongly deported Maryland man.

00:15:55.140 New York Times, El Salvador's leader says he won't return wrongly deported Maryland man.

00:16:01.460 Bloomberg Bukele says deported Maryland man won't be returned to the United States.

00:16:06.060 I mean, you wouldn't even know that he was an El Salvadoran citizen for many of these.

00:16:09.100 And here is the CBC, our, our friends up North, El Salvador president says he won't return U.S.

00:16:17.540 man who was deported by mistake as if Trump decided Steve Dace needs to go because, uh, he mistook

00:16:27.100 you for an illegal and sent you home and then said, there's nothing I can do about this.

00:16:30.280 And here's just one more, um, here's the New York times is the daily interviewing their

00:16:36.520 Supreme court correspondent, Adam Liptak about whether this guy has had any due process.

00:16:43.140 And now I just laid it out for you that what happened to him in 2019, the immigration judge,

00:16:47.640 I read you excerpts from her decision.

00:16:49.340 Then it went up an appeal.

00:16:50.680 I read you excerpts from that court's decision.

00:16:53.440 Then he acclaimed asylum or withholder from removal.

00:16:56.940 And they said, you don't qualify for asylum.

00:16:59.520 And they gave him withholding for, from removal from one country only, but he was absolutely

00:17:04.720 deportable, uh, at that moment to any other country and listen to the way the times styles

00:17:10.360 what happened to him.

00:17:12.440 He wasn't afforded the merest amount of due process.

00:17:18.880 And if he had been afforded that he could have made two points.

00:17:22.820 One that he's exempt from being deported.

00:17:25.980 One that he's exempt from being deported to El Salvador.

00:17:28.560 And two, that if there are other things to be said about his life, he could dispute that,

00:17:34.940 put in evidence, call witnesses.

00:17:38.060 He was afforded neither of those things.

00:17:41.100 Yes, he was.

00:17:41.640 And in any event, even if everything was true, even if he's a member of this gang, even if

00:17:49.560 that's criminal conduct, even if it's criminal conduct in the United States, that still doesn't

00:17:54.700 give the government the right to deport him.

00:17:57.520 Maybe it gives them the right to prosecute him in the United States.

00:18:01.540 Maybe it gives them the right to send him somewhere other than El Salvador.

00:18:05.160 But the one thing we know is that it's unlawful to send him to El Salvador.

00:18:13.580 We have every right to deport every illegal in this country, every single one who hasn't 1.00

00:18:23.140 been granted asylum.

00:18:24.740 That we do not have to prove that they've committed an extra crime on top of their illegal entry.

00:18:30.580 He was absolutely deportable without any finding about MSN 13, but one was issued by a court

00:18:38.140 and upheld on appeal.

00:18:40.040 He was afforded due process, Steve.

00:18:42.000 It just happened six years ago, and he was given a temporary reprieve, at least insofar as

00:18:49.260 we wanted to send him back to his home.

00:18:52.220 But he absolutely could have been injected anywhere.

00:18:55.260 And look at the nonsense being spun on the New York Times.

00:18:58.600 It's a hugely popular podcast.

00:19:00.680 That's what the left is hearing every day.

00:19:03.360 If I'm the Trump administration, I'm going to park my car.

00:19:06.720 Megan, I'm going to park it right here.

00:19:08.820 I don't want to move off of this topic.

00:19:11.140 I want them to keep talking.

00:19:13.400 I want to recycle this day after day after day.

00:19:16.440 If my political opponents want to say, hey, we are the political party of, you cannot deport

00:19:21.800 members of violent gangs, maybe amongst the most violent gangs in the entire hemisphere,

00:19:27.140 or you're heartless and cruel. 0.93

00:19:30.740 That's just not anything, anybody that's not vested in the undoing of America, who's never

00:19:35.860 going to vote our way anyway.

00:19:37.880 This is a zero-sum game now, the immigration issue is. 0.51

00:19:42.000 These are just like the gender issue, just like really almost every other issue in the

00:19:45.620 country right now.

00:19:46.200 These are incontrovertible worldviews that just simply cannot share a landmass, cannot

00:19:51.380 share a culture.

00:19:53.000 The idea that the New York Times thinks an unborn baby at the very final stage of development

00:20:00.680 has no right whatsoever to life.

00:20:04.400 On the other hand, an MS-13 gang member has a right to set his feet down here on the soil

00:20:10.220 of the United States of America.

00:20:11.240 That's just not a worldview, you know, the country that many of us are talking to could

00:20:16.800 just abide with and live with.

00:20:18.400 And so I think that this is another excellent opportunity to allow, the left wants to go

00:20:24.060 ahead and cast themselves outside of reality and outside of sanity to the normie voter out

00:20:28.460 there.

00:20:28.860 Let them.

00:20:29.560 I'd park my car right here.

00:20:31.240 I'd talk about this issue every day I possibly could if I were this White House.

00:20:34.600 I'd keep recycling ways to keep bringing it up, Megan, and make them keep owning this.

00:20:38.720 A follow up to you on that, because that would explain yesterday when Bukele went to the White 0.67

00:20:43.340 House, I thought it was pretty extraordinary how Trump basically had the whole cabinet in

00:20:47.360 there.

00:20:47.800 It was I hadn't seen that before.

00:20:50.100 I mean, did you see them all standing there behind the couch?

00:20:52.480 It was Marco Rubio sitting on the couch with Pam Bondi and then Trump and Bukele sitting 0.88

00:20:58.140 in their chairs.

00:20:58.760 And behind Rubio and Bondi was everybody.

00:21:02.600 Stephen Miller was there.

00:21:04.660 Linda McMahon was there.

00:21:06.160 Kristi Noem was there.

00:21:06.900 Like, they're all, you know, everybody was standing.

00:21:08.860 I was like, wow, this is actually very cool.

00:21:10.720 He's brought some into the Oval before, but like there was a reason he brought them all

00:21:15.020 in.

00:21:15.480 And he's he used them to answer questions from reporters.

00:21:18.940 And as I hear you talking about this, like park your car on it, I think he was parking

00:21:23.000 the car yesterday.

00:21:23.760 I'll just show you some of what I'm talking about, because those cabinet members and Stephen

00:21:28.160 Miller, who's senior advisor to the president, were doing battle in particular with CNN's

00:21:31.900 Caitlin Collins.

00:21:33.020 I'm going to turn the man who your administration says was mistakenly deported.

00:21:36.180 Which one is it?

00:21:37.260 The man who was mistakenly deported to El Salvador.

00:21:39.800 Well, let me ask Pam.

00:21:40.860 Would you ask to answer that question?

00:21:43.020 The Supreme Court ruled, President, that if, as El Salvador wants to return him, this is

00:21:48.580 international matters, foreign affairs.

00:21:50.560 If they wanted to return him, we would facilitate it, meaning provide a plane.

00:21:57.200 So will you return him?

00:21:59.000 It's very arrogant, even, for American media to suggest that we would even tell El Salvador

00:22:03.740 how to handle their own citizen, who, again, is a member of MS-13, which, as I'm sure you

00:22:09.460 understand, rapes little girls, murders women, murders children, is engaged in the most barbaric

00:22:14.900 activities in the world. 0.94

00:22:15.940 And I can promise you, if he was your neighbor, you would move right away.

00:22:18.360 So you don't plan to ask for anything to get in that plane?

00:22:21.060 No version of this legally ends up with an ever-living year, because he is a citizen

00:22:25.260 of El Salvador.

00:22:26.800 That is the president of El Salvador.

00:22:28.620 Your question to that, for the court, can only be directed to him.

00:22:31.160 Does the Kim President of the Taylor Layman on this?

00:22:33.180 Do you plan to return him?

00:22:34.760 How can I smuggle him into the United States?

00:22:37.840 If I smuggle him into the United States, or what do I do?

00:22:40.640 Of course, I'm not going to do it.

00:22:42.420 It's like, I mean, the question is preposterous.

00:22:45.800 How can I smuggle a terrorist into the United States?

00:22:49.040 I don't have the power to return him to the United States.

00:22:51.740 You could release him inside of El Salvador.

00:22:53.560 Yeah, but I'm not releasing, I mean, we're not very fond of releasing terrorists into our

00:22:57.240 country.

00:22:57.700 That's not going to happen.

00:22:59.260 Well, they'd love to have a criminal, you know, released into our country.

00:23:02.120 I mean, I mean, there's a fascination.

00:23:04.040 They would love to.

00:23:05.040 Yeah. 1.00

00:23:05.600 They're sick people. 0.99

00:23:07.640 The foreign policy of the United States is conducted by the president of the United States, 0.99

00:23:11.120 not by a court.

00:23:12.060 We want a case 9-0, and people like CNN are portraying it as a loss, as usual, because

00:23:17.060 they want foreign terrorists in the country.

00:23:18.960 Mr. President, you said that if the Supreme Court said someone needed to be returned,

00:23:22.300 he would have a violent.

00:23:23.240 You said that on your response was two days ago.

00:23:25.120 How long do we have to answer this question from you?

00:23:28.420 Why don't you just say, isn't it wonderful that we're keeping criminals out of our country?

00:23:33.100 Why can't you just say that?

00:23:36.840 Megan, I don't do this very often, okay?

00:23:39.960 But in terms of political execution, that is chef's kiss level stuff.

00:23:47.520 And to make them just sit there and own this.

00:23:50.180 And, yes, you are welcome to be the party of violent gang members and terrorist organizations

00:23:57.020 have a right to be in your neighborhoods against your own will.

00:24:01.260 You're welcome to be the side that represents that argument.

00:24:04.420 I would not move off this talking point.

00:24:06.840 You know, there's an old, you know, in the radio business, in the old FM DJ business,

00:24:11.940 the old saying was, just when you're getting sick of the song, the audience is starting to

00:24:16.060 get it, right?

00:24:16.600 And I would keep going until you've just thought you've completely talked this out and you're

00:24:22.460 sick of it if you're in that White House right now and there aren't any tropes left, there

00:24:25.500 aren't any angles left to this.

00:24:27.020 And I'd recycle a few more days more just to make sure the American people understand totally

00:24:32.740 and completely which side everybody is on on this.

00:24:37.020 They might be, they will be getting more fodder to do exactly that.

00:24:41.660 But here's an example of what we're hearing next level from the left, Delano, from Rachel

00:24:46.600 Morin.

00:24:47.560 Now, she's, she decided, no, sorry, sorry, forgive me, not Rachel Morin.

00:24:53.260 It's from Maria Hinojosa, who decided to say that the reason we're doing this to this man 0.98

00:25:00.340 is Trump is a racist. 0.92

00:25:02.160 Listen to this, top five. 0.99

00:25:03.120 But it should, it should frighten every single person who's watching this.

00:25:09.340 One, the racism is outright.

00:25:11.180 It's because this gentleman is Salvadoran that they're like, oh, we have nothing to do with 1.00

00:25:16.180 him.

00:25:16.380 It's just outright, like we don't need another Latino. 1.00

00:25:19.340 We don't need to return him to this country.

00:25:21.100 But two, for any American citizen who has family behind bars, this needs to be concerning

00:25:28.340 to you because the president is saying, we will soon be taking you from the United States

00:25:32.820 to Sekot.

00:25:34.780 What do you make of that?

00:25:35.900 It's, it's racism.

00:25:37.360 That's why Trump's so against these illegals.

00:25:40.080 This is actually one of the ironies that doesn't get discussed enough, particularly when dealing

00:25:44.260 with the left, is that they will simultaneously say that America is a systemically and endemically

00:25:50.140 racist nation that harbors hostilities toward, you know, black people, brown people, right?

00:25:57.820 So African-Americans, Hispanic people, but then argue that more brown people from South 0.95

00:26:05.040 America, Central America need, need to come here. 1.00

00:26:07.480 And it's never made sense to me.

00:26:09.640 Megan and Steve, if I went to a restaurant. 0.98

00:26:12.400 Come to a racist hellhole. 0.95

00:26:13.460 Is that what you're saying? 0.99

00:26:14.140 Yes, right.

00:26:14.980 If I, if I went to a restaurant and I had terrible service and the food made me sick, the last

00:26:19.320 thing I would do to other people who I love and my family is to say, well, you guys should

00:26:22.720 go there as well.

00:26:23.680 So they're making an argument, right?

00:26:27.760 And, and, and they do this constantly. 0.98

00:26:29.580 It's America hates black and brown people, but we should have as many, you know, come here 1.00

00:26:34.520 as possible. 0.98

00:26:35.080 And, and, and look, I say that my parents immigrated from, from the West Indies in the 19th, late

00:26:40.680 seventies, early eighties.

00:26:41.700 Um, I grew up in New York city where, you know, every third person has family that came

00:26:46.420 here at some point, you know, to Steve's point, since, you know, the turn of the 20th century.

00:26:51.440 But again, it's a nation of laws.

00:26:54.740 And I believe every nation, uh, it's the immigration policy of every nation.

00:27:00.460 So I prioritize its citizens over foreign nationals point blank period. 1.00

00:27:05.180 I don't care what the nation is.

00:27:06.300 I don't care what foreign nationals you're dealing with it. 1.00

00:27:08.900 The citizens should always come first.

00:27:10.560 And I say that thinking of this issue as a father, right?

00:27:13.840 I have responsibilities to my wife and my children.

00:27:16.480 And even though we, we may, my wife and I may say, we want to adopt a child.

00:27:21.620 And my children may say, we, we, we would love to get a new sibling.

00:27:24.760 If we tell our kids, we're going to adopt one child a week for the next 15 years, at

00:27:30.640 a certain point, they're going to question whether or not they're going to be enough

00:27:33.360 resources, um, whether, whether the character and sort of culture of our family is going

00:27:38.460 to change and how we are going to ensure that all of the children, the new children feel

00:27:43.740 some sense of togetherness in our new home.

00:27:45.920 And America's leaders have failed to do that when it comes to immigration and, and, and

00:27:51.420 assimilation so that we all feel that we have, you know, we're, we're equally vested here in

00:27:56.500 this country.

00:27:57.580 Spot on the, um, this woman, Maria Hinojosa, who I played for, from MSNBC, she, we've talked

00:28:05.080 about her before.

00:28:05.820 She's the founder of Futuro Media and host of Latino USA on the public radio exchange,

00:28:11.120 formerly NPR.

00:28:11.840 And in September, she was on MSNBC saying Hispanics back Trump because they want to be

00:28:17.340 white.

00:28:18.100 She said, quote, Latinos want to be white. 0.81

00:28:20.380 They want to be with the cool kids. 0.66

00:28:22.120 So that's how Maria sees the world. 0.90

00:28:24.780 Um, but you know, the evil Trump doesn't see them as white, which is why they have to go. 1.00

00:28:28.960 I wanted to play one other soundbite from the daily today and the misinformation that

00:28:33.200 was spewed by this Adam Liptak this morning, listen to him suggesting what's next as a result

00:28:40.040 of Trump's behavior here.

00:28:41.600 Uh, this is SOT 3.

00:28:44.060 Adam, I think that probably there are a lot of people out there that might say something

00:28:48.820 along the lines of this man was in the country illegally.

00:28:52.060 There's a reason to think that he's a gang member, you know, trust the president.

00:28:56.220 Maybe there are some mistakes along the way, but by and large, why are you guys getting all

00:29:00.760 worked up about this?

00:29:01.720 We send him back to where he belongs.

00:29:03.640 What would you say to those people that might think that?

00:29:06.300 What I would say is that there's really nothing in the administration's legal logic that would

00:29:16.280 prohibit the administration from picking an American citizen off the street, send them 1.00

00:29:26.780 to a vicious prison in another country where torture is routine, conceitedly lawlessly, and then

00:29:39.980 say, whoops, sorry, nothing we can do about it.

00:29:44.600 You're going to spend the rest of your days there.

00:29:46.520 The legal logic of the Abrego Garcia case is no different than the legal logic of sending

00:30:01.740 Rachel Abrams or Adam Lipteck to El Salvador for the rest of our days.

00:30:07.000 Oh, my God, the fake drama with the music dropping, except for the fact that you're American citizens

00:30:17.100 and Trump is not claiming that he can pick up any American citizen and deport them.

00:30:23.260 The whole reason this guy got deported is because he was suspected of being an MS-13 member,

00:30:29.480 which threw him into the crosshairs of law enforcement.

00:30:32.000 They discovered he was here illegally, which is why he was subject to removal.

00:30:38.540 We are not deporting American citizens to El Salvador, and Trump knows that we cannot deport

00:30:45.400 American citizens to El Salvador.

00:30:47.020 There was a whole long exchange yesterday at that same meeting about Trump's desire,

00:30:52.960 potentially, to send convicted serial killers or child molesters who are US citizens in our

00:31:00.400 jails now to that prison, like to house them in prisons outside of the United States, people 0.99

00:31:06.960 who have had their due process and been found guilty and are incarcerated.

00:31:10.900 And he said, we're actually looking into whether that is legal, not you're deported because we

00:31:16.820 don't like you, Adam Lipteck, New York Times Supreme Court reporter who thinks he's as in danger

00:31:23.120 as an MS-13 illegal in this country.

00:31:25.980 It's so dishonest.

00:31:28.300 Okay, but I wanted to turn the page because I mistakenly mentioned the name Rachel Morin

00:31:32.280 when I was trying to get to Maria Hinojosa earlier.

00:31:35.460 And the reason her name is on my mind is because this poor woman was brutally murdered by an 1.00

00:31:42.680 illegal back in Maryland, Delano's home state now.

00:31:46.800 And she was a mother of five.

00:31:50.320 She was 37 years old.

00:31:52.600 She was jogging along a trail in a quaint little community northeast of Baltimore when an illegal

00:32:00.140 migrant named Victor Antonio Martinez Hernandez grabbed her and strangled her and beat her to

00:32:08.540 death.

00:32:09.240 He was 23 years old.

00:32:10.680 He got here under the Joe Biden welcome program where we opened our border.

00:32:15.000 He crossed into the U.S. in February of 2023.

00:32:19.540 The autopsy reports revealed that this poor woman, Rachel Morin, had endured 15 to 20 blows 0.99

00:32:26.880 to the head and had died from a combination of strangulation and blunt force trauma.

00:32:31.860 This guy killed her, then fled the scene.

00:32:34.940 And authorities said during his trial that they found DNA matching his at the crime scene.

00:32:39.000 Then they traced him to Tulsa, Oklahoma, where police arrested him.

00:32:42.540 It did not take the jury long at all to find him guilty.

00:32:46.820 And the Hartford, Hartford County Sheriff Jeff Gaylor said the United States immigration system

00:32:52.780 failed Rachel Morin.

00:32:55.040 The failure here again, he said, is the immigration system that allowed this person to enter our 1.00

00:32:59.580 country illegally and remain in our country and commit crimes first in Los Angeles and then 1.00

00:33:04.120 here in Hartford County.

00:33:06.080 This is this is why this is why Trump is doing this, Steve.

00:33:12.380 This is why Stephen Miller is so outraged at the way the media is portraying this, at the

00:33:18.480 lack of attention that even the Maryland lawmakers, federal law, you know, those who are in the

00:33:23.700 federal government have are now speaking out about this guy, Abrego Garcia, but don't have a word

00:33:29.540 for Rachel Morin.

00:33:30.860 Their priorities are completely upside down.

00:33:33.840 A hundred percent.

00:33:35.900 And I mean, what you just tragically described, Megan, was a hundred percent avoidable crime.

00:33:41.900 Not all crime is avoidable.

00:33:43.760 Wrong place, wrong time, circumstances beyond your control.

00:33:47.520 But that was a hundred percent unavoidable, did not have to happen.

00:33:50.760 And it simply happened because the United States federal government under the previous regime

00:33:54.120 aided and abetted it.

00:33:55.560 And I mean, I mean, their fingerprints are on the murder weapon here.

00:33:58.920 These two stories are actually connected in some respects.

00:34:01.800 What we were just discussing and what we're discussing now from a political standpoint,

00:34:06.480 what we have learned on the right in the last few years is that the way we do persuasion

00:34:11.280 in this era is different now.

00:34:12.780 And in previous eras, you used to start with an objective truth claim, and then you would

00:34:17.640 close with a personal testimony and story to kind of cinch the argument with an emotional

00:34:22.700 connection.

00:34:23.180 And the way we do business epistemologically in the West now is different now.

00:34:27.540 And now you have to begin with an emotional appeal.

00:34:29.480 You have to gain emotional credibility first before people will philosophically listen

00:34:33.320 to you.

00:34:34.080 And the left has beaten us over the head with this for the last couple of decades.

00:34:38.200 And we're beginning to figure out now and do this better on our own.

00:34:41.620 And we're using stories instead of statistics of tragedies of what you just said.

00:34:46.160 Hey, because ultimately we're dealing with people and souls here, not numbers on a page.

00:34:50.180 And these statistics, they come home to real stories, real tragedies.

00:34:54.180 Someone's daughter isn't coming home for Easter this weekend.

00:34:57.480 Someone's daughter isn't going to be there at Christmas next year or ever again.

00:35:01.160 Why?

00:35:01.640 Why?

00:35:02.000 Why?

00:35:02.420 And then that gets us into the philosophical arguments about what happened here.

00:35:05.840 They're trying to emulate this now with the case of the MS-13 gang member.

00:35:10.680 In the last election, Trump won Hispanic men overall by 10 points, one of the most astounding 1.00

00:35:14.800 pieces of data in all of the exit polling.

00:35:17.320 Did even better with younger Hispanic men.

00:35:19.720 And what you're seeing is a generational changeover.

00:35:21.740 The original Hispanic voting bloc from the 80s on, one of their primary concerns, if not 1.00

00:35:27.740 their primary concern, was I want to bring as many people that are stuck back home with 0.86

00:35:32.240 me here, which means if you put a conservative piece of legislation on the ballot as a referendum,

00:35:37.780 they would often vote for us.

00:35:39.360 OK, but if you ask them to vote for Republicans, they often would not.

00:35:42.620 Because of that primary concern, I want to bring more people stuck back in the squalor of

00:35:47.120 home here with me.

00:35:47.880 Well, we've had a changeover, and ironically, it's some of these so-called dreamers are one

00:35:51.820 of the reasons why.

00:35:52.800 They view themselves as full-blooded Americans.

00:35:55.280 They view themselves as citizens, not immigrants, right? 1.00

00:35:57.640 And it is vital to see yourself as a nation of citizens and not immigrants. 1.00

00:36:02.080 They see themselves as a nation of citizens now.

00:36:04.460 They're living in these suburbs now.

00:36:06.060 They're living in these exurbs now.

00:36:07.620 Those are their schools now with their kids.

00:36:09.600 And they don't want to bring back from home what was left behind.

00:36:12.780 And they're attracted to that Trump message.

00:36:14.880 And so what the Democrats are attempting to do, they identify, frankly, more with Lincoln

00:36:19.020 Riley than they do an MS-13 gay member, because that could be their daughter. 0.76

00:36:22.940 And what the left now is trying to do is say, no, no, you have it wrong. 0.66

00:36:25.940 That could be you deported next.

00:36:28.140 And that's the case they're trying to make.

00:36:30.080 It's actually a good strategy for-

00:36:30.820 Or they're saying, no, you're just trying to act white.

00:36:32.460 That's you trying to act white like a cool kid, quote unquote. 0.62

00:36:35.460 It's a good strategy for them.

00:36:37.460 But the problem is they chose the wrong example to try to emotionally manipulate.

00:36:42.280 So why did they choose this terrible example?

00:36:44.520 Because they're running out of ideas and running out of time and they're losing ground.

00:36:48.060 Well, and because they had that one sliver of he wasn't technically supposed to be deported

00:36:52.540 to El Salvador.

00:36:53.480 And the Trump administration admitted that that was an administrative error, that that

00:36:57.500 was an error that they made in sending him there in the beginning.

00:37:01.060 Now they seem to be trying to wiggle out of that.

00:37:02.620 But Megan, that's a technicality that most of the American people won't care about.

00:37:06.220 All they're going to care about is get this MS-13 gang member off the streets by hook

00:37:09.940 or by crook.

00:37:10.440 That's all they're going to care about.

00:37:11.360 That's right. 0.97

00:37:13.220 That saying, it always throws me because it starts off by sounding like by hooker. 0.78

00:37:17.160 And I'm like, how are we going to use the hookers? 1.00

00:37:20.620 How are they going to help us?

00:37:23.480 But I mean, I'm all for it if that's what we have to do.

00:37:27.200 Never look the gift horse in the mouth, Megan.

00:37:28.920 Never.

00:37:29.540 Yes.

00:37:30.260 There don't limit to their powers.

00:37:32.500 Before we leave the subject of Rachel Morin, I want to play this soundbite.

00:37:35.940 Her brother, Rachel's brother, Michael, spoke at the RNC over the past summer.

00:37:41.400 And then her mother spoke out with Trump at the border last summer in another event that

00:37:47.940 the media barely covered.

00:37:49.380 They did not.

00:37:50.020 He went down there.

00:37:51.260 He met.

00:37:51.580 That's where he met Jocelyn Nangaro's mom.

00:37:53.760 He met with Rachel Morin's mom.

00:37:56.660 Like, Trump has been very clear he was going to make this an issue and do something about

00:38:01.800 it.

00:38:02.240 And here she is at the border last summer.

00:38:04.700 She had five children.

00:38:07.980 The trail that Rachel ran daily was a trail that we as a family would walk over the last

00:38:17.060 25 years.

00:38:18.100 Hello, Mrs. Morin.

00:38:19.700 This is Detective so-and-so.

00:38:22.520 I'm the lead detective on this case.

00:38:25.500 There's no easy way to tell you this.

00:38:30.060 But we found your daughter's body. 0.85

00:38:32.180 She was brutally beaten, raped, and then stuffed into a drainpipe.

00:38:42.000 We're not here for a political stand, although we are. 0.68

00:38:44.980 We're here because we're losing our moms, our daughters, our children to criminals.

00:38:53.120 Truly, I hope that you will just take my words to heart because it's devastating.

00:38:59.380 Oh, that poor mom. 1.00

00:39:02.780 And that totally brings it home.

00:39:04.560 It's like, no, no more.

00:39:06.960 No, no more.

00:39:07.940 We're done.

00:39:08.900 To the Joe Biden days of open borders and no consequences and revolving doors out the

00:39:13.400 back of the courtroom once you've been ordered deported are done.

00:39:17.720 All right.

00:39:18.260 I want to turn the page because there's much more to get to.

00:39:20.520 And that includes Carmelo Anthony and this case of the altercation he had with Austin

00:39:29.880 Metcalf, a 17-year-old down in Texas.

00:39:32.700 So the controversy today in this case is that this young man, he's also 17, has been released

00:39:41.540 after admitting to stabbing Austin Metcalf in the heart at a track meet.

00:39:48.660 They were both there as spectators.

00:39:50.500 Both boys in high school, their whole lives in front of them.

00:39:53.980 He is admitting that he stabbed Austin Metcalf in the heart with a knife.

00:39:59.000 He alleges it's because Austin Metcalf laid hands on him.

00:40:03.420 He's not even claiming Austin Metcalf had a weapon or threatened to kill him, et cetera.

00:40:08.420 And now Carmelo Anthony has been released on bail.

00:40:14.340 He was released from jail on Monday after posting a reduced $250,000 bond.

00:40:20.640 He will remain on house arrest until his trial.

00:40:23.900 A judge in Collin County slashed his $1 million bond originally and said he may await trial

00:40:30.980 at home with an ankle monitor and 24-hour supervision from his parents or some other adult designee.

00:40:37.820 And the family had set up a give-send-go account, which has already raised over $415,000 so far.

00:40:46.580 I'll just tell you what some seasoned lawyers are saying.

00:40:49.440 For example, our pal Phil Holloway, he says, I see people held without bond for months or even years

00:40:57.120 for much less serious charges.

00:40:59.660 And I've heard a lot of that.

00:41:01.440 I mean, you know how many January 6th cases were held without bond who did not murder anybody?

00:41:08.540 But this guy, Delano, gets out on, you know, relatively low bond that somebody else is paying

00:41:14.940 because he's already got this huge GoFundMe account or give-send-go account.

00:41:19.820 And you tell me why that is, in your opinion.

00:41:23.540 Well, to be frank, I was surprised that bail was set at $1 million.

00:41:28.260 For context, Dylann Roof's bail was set at $1 million for the gun charges,

00:41:32.720 not for the murders he committed, not for the nine murders in Charleston, South Carolina,

00:41:37.260 but on the gun charges.

00:41:38.540 So $1 million always sounded high to me.

00:41:42.240 If Carmelo Anthony had a long track record, a long criminal record,

00:41:47.360 then I think it would be different.

00:41:49.120 I think his entire case is going to hinge on his claim that he was acting in self-defense.

00:41:55.160 A jury will have to hear evidence to substantiate that claim.

00:41:58.400 And they will decide whether or not there's any basis to that claim.

00:42:01.920 I think, this is my personal opinion,

00:42:04.340 this case has moved from a local case to a national case

00:42:07.640 because of the racial dynamics at play.

00:42:10.820 And it's unfortunate-

00:42:11.240 Carmelo was black and Austin was white.

00:42:13.060 Correct, correct.

00:42:14.040 And it's unfortunate that it seems as if many of the conservatives who typically say,

00:42:20.320 let's wait to hear all the facts, let's get all the evidence,

00:42:23.820 let's let the jury, you know, of this person's peers make a decision.

00:42:28.400 Have rushed to judgment in terms of motives,

00:42:31.020 in terms of what happened or didn't happen.

00:42:34.440 And I've, part of the reason that I've been hesitant to make certain comments on this case publicly

00:42:39.300 and why I'm holding my powder is because I've seen time and time again,

00:42:43.820 the original narrative that gets set into the media,

00:42:47.120 whether on the left, typically on the left,

00:42:48.560 because this race-related crimes are sort of the province of the left.

00:42:52.960 They have been.

00:42:53.700 And I think that's changing now.

00:42:55.800 But I've seen hands up, don't shoot, go up in flames.

00:42:59.700 I've seen sort of the original narrative, you know, in other cases, go up in flames.

00:43:05.060 We've even seen, even when it comes to George Floyd,

00:43:07.760 people go from saying, we see the video,

00:43:10.480 to now certain commentators, particularly on the right, saying,

00:43:14.640 no, George Floyd, Derek Chauvin had nothing to do with George Floyd's death.

00:43:17.300 It was the overdose.

00:43:18.400 So my thing is this, I, the Million Dollar Bond sounded, as I said, sounded high to me.

00:43:24.080 I'm not surprised it was lowered.

00:43:26.540 The give, send, go stuff, I've seen how that's been sort of painted.

00:43:30.840 Ultimately, Carmelo Anthony is going to face a jury of his peers.

00:43:35.800 And if what he did sound, if the sort of original reports hold true,

00:43:41.760 that it was just a minor verbal altercation,

00:43:44.520 and he pulled out a knife and stabbed this young man in the heart,

00:43:47.560 then he's going to go to jail, going to go to prison for a very, very long time.

00:43:51.780 He's going to.

00:43:52.660 That's my prediction as a lawyer.

00:43:53.900 And we take on legal cases all the time on this show,

00:43:57.540 given my own, you know, past as a 10-year practicing attorney at a very high level.

00:44:02.200 Um, I, I have no doubt that this, this kid is in a lot of trouble right now

00:44:07.920 and is more likely than not going to go to prison probably for the rest of his life.

00:44:11.720 Because we went through the legal standard with our legal panel just the other day.

00:44:14.840 You cannot respond to non-deadly force with deadly force.

00:44:18.060 Period.

00:44:19.300 Period.

00:44:20.140 And it doesn't matter what the color of your skin is.

00:44:22.400 What, what I think is happening here is, is this judge is probably bending over backward for him

00:44:26.640 because of the color of his skin, because the judge is probably afraid of looking like they're being too tough.

00:44:32.900 But the defense law firms down in Texas who deal with this kind of law all the time,

00:44:37.200 for example, Granger and Mueller, a criminal defense law firm from Texas,

00:44:40.880 said those accused of murder in Texas will have a bail amount set at a million dollars or more.

00:44:46.280 Period.

00:44:46.840 That's what they do.

00:44:47.740 The lowering of it was remarkable.

00:44:50.160 Yes, he's 17.

00:44:51.040 That may have had some effect on the fact that he's still a minor.

00:44:54.600 So he's technically under his parents' control.

00:44:56.840 But the parents know very well that this kid could be facing life in prison.

00:45:00.640 So there is a flight risk.

00:45:02.420 There's some sort of risk associated with it, with this.

00:45:04.780 And if what's alleged by the kid's own words here, Steve, is true,

00:45:10.340 I don't know whether the community is in danger or not.

00:45:12.680 Honestly, like this, this is alleged to be a hair trigger situation

00:45:16.800 where this kid responded to some sort of hand on him,

00:45:22.840 trying to remove him from the spot where Austin and his brother and friends were watching a game.

00:45:28.640 And let's go with the worst possible interpretation.

00:45:31.240 Austin is a is a racist, which, by the way, there is zero support for.

00:45:36.320 Some left wing loons got that going on X. 0.97

00:45:39.340 And I hope you all face defamation lawsuits.

00:45:42.180 There's zero support for that.

00:45:44.120 But let's just go with the worst case thing you could you could imagine,

00:45:47.880 where Austin Metcalfe said something racist.

00:45:50.600 No one's alleging that.

00:45:52.440 And that Carmelo Anthony got upset and said, yeah, I'm not leaving.

00:45:56.320 And then said, go ahead, make me.

00:45:58.740 And Austin Metcalfe laid hands on him to make him. 0.99

00:46:01.440 You still cannot pull a knife and stab him in the heart.

00:46:04.880 We went through the law.

00:46:06.000 You, A, cannot be the person who provoked the attack on you in response to which you used a knife.

00:46:11.520 And so he can't claim self-defense for that reason.

00:46:13.760 And more importantly, B, the response to force being used against you in all 50 states in the union

00:46:20.360 must be proportional to the threat.

00:46:24.100 And you may not use a knife, a gun, or any other means that will obviously cause death or risk

00:46:31.000 serious bodily harm if that is not what's about to happen to you.

00:46:34.880 Um, here is the police affidavit in support of the arrest.

00:46:40.480 Anthony later told responding officers he was defending himself, explaining, quote,

00:46:46.000 he put his hands on me.

00:46:47.780 I told him not to while, quote, crying hysterically.

00:46:51.720 The affidavit said Anthony also asked if Metcalfe was going to be OK.

00:46:55.900 Of course, he had already died, was officially pronounced dead at a hospital less than a half

00:47:00.920 hour after the stabbing.

00:47:02.360 Your thoughts on it, Steve?

00:47:04.220 Well, if you don't mind, just a quick digression.

00:47:06.040 I wanted to commend, um, the, the father here of the victim, uh, who got just roundly criticized,

00:47:13.000 uh, for forgiving, uh, his son's murderer.

00:47:16.440 Um, uh, because we're conflating forgiveness with forbearance.

00:47:19.680 It doesn't mean you're not, you're, you know, we're, we're exempting you from the consequences

00:47:22.760 of your actions.

00:47:23.460 It just means we're not, we're not going to harbor bitterness to you.

00:47:26.020 God forgave me, so I'll forgive you, uh, and ultimately you now have to face the consequences

00:47:31.240 for your actions and, and I'm going to release you of that and not let that bitterness take

00:47:35.360 root in me and turn me into a person I don't want to become.

00:47:38.000 That, that's really why we forgive.

00:47:39.780 And I, I wanted to make sure that that father got, uh, uh, a well done, good and faithful

00:47:44.120 servant from me if this topic came up.

00:47:46.260 Uh, as to your, as to your question, um, I'm fine in a case of self-defense, like what

00:47:52.680 Delano said, just letting the process play out.

00:47:54.780 Unfortunately, um, we have a hard time doing that when, uh, based on even what you just

00:48:00.860 said in your lead up there, Megan, it is an irregular, it's an, it's at the very least

00:48:04.600 an irregular reduction in bail, uh, for a case, uh, of murder, uh, in the state of Texas.

00:48:10.640 Number one, I think it's perfectly fine to question why, what, what, what, what's, what's

00:48:15.060 so unique about this?

00:48:15.980 We have witnesses, we have a police statement we have, doesn't mean, by the way, he doesn't

00:48:19.120 get due process in a trial, but we're talking about bail here.

00:48:21.700 Uh, we're not talking about sentencing, okay?

00:48:24.520 And so what would be unique?

00:48:26.520 And I don't know how you could avoid just coming up with some of the obvious things that

00:48:30.240 would be unique about this case as to why a certain level of, uh, bail leniency would

00:48:35.200 be practiced here as you did.

00:48:37.060 Um, I, I'm, I'm actually way more disturbed in trying to figure out what would contemplate,

00:48:42.780 um, someone to say, uh, I want to give my hard earned money to this give, send, go.

00:48:49.180 I, I'm, I, I just, I'm, I'm, uh, that's the part of me, the part to me that I, I'm just

00:48:55.460 really troubled by.

00:48:57.140 Um, yeah, I, I just don't understand what it is about this case, unless you have, you're

00:49:02.580 so embedded, embedded in racial identity that it's become your own idolatry.

00:49:06.820 I have no idea why you would, why you would feel compelled to give your, take money off

00:49:12.240 your kid's table and, and give it to this cause.

00:49:15.240 Okay.

00:49:15.680 I mean, that, that's the part of my, I, I just, I just can't wrap my brain around that

00:49:19.680 part of this.

00:49:20.480 That's what's happening because not even right now, I'll let you go, Dylan, but right

00:49:24.300 now, not even the defendant, Carmelo Anthony is alleging anything, anything that would justify

00:49:31.340 him stabbing Austin Metcalf through the heart.

00:49:33.720 He's not even alleging it.

00:49:35.700 Yeah, I can, I think I can respond to that, Steve.

00:49:39.360 Um, here, here's the sense that I get, um, on the right, the way this is, this is framed

00:49:46.100 is that, you know, there's sort of this anti-white, uh, racist intent coming from the black folks 0.96

00:49:52.960 who are contributing to, to his, um, to his give, send, go. 0.77

00:49:56.420 What I, what I think those people are doing, the people who are contributing and saying, this

00:50:00.120 kid is about to get railroaded and we want to give him, you know, resources that he can

00:50:05.680 defend himself.

00:50:06.540 And what they would say is, look at Daniel Penny, right?

00:50:10.300 I know it's not the same case, different jurisdiction, different set of circumstances, but he ended

00:50:14.600 up using a level of force that led to a man's death.

00:50:17.380 And when he raised, I don't know, $3 million on, on whatever the platform was, it wasn't

00:50:22.880 because there was anti-black racism towards Jordan Neely.

00:50:27.020 It's because they felt he was going to get railroaded in a blue city.

00:50:30.940 And, and that's the reason that, you know, people were saying, we need to give to Daniel

00:50:34.380 Penny's defense.

00:50:35.240 I think it's a similar sort of sentiment going on here.

00:50:37.880 Now we can disagree with that sentiment, but, but I think this is the problem.

00:50:41.360 This is the, the danger of immediately racializing these types of cases, because we, we can admit

00:50:47.520 if this was black on black or white on white, this local, uh, crime would probably not be

00:50:53.860 getting national attention and I think that's something, I don't agree with that.

00:50:57.260 I don't agree with that at all.

00:50:58.580 A 17 year old boy stabs another through the heart after the first boy allegedly quote laid

00:51:05.060 hands on him, trying to get him to move seats at a track meet that trust me, that's a national

00:51:10.500 story every day of the week.

00:51:12.760 It's something's wrong.

00:51:14.360 Something's wrong in our society.

00:51:15.760 I don't care.

00:51:16.660 I don't care what the race is, even if it had been the other way around, it doesn't matter. 0.95

00:51:20.380 Something's wrong in the heart of the person who stabs another in the heart.

00:51:24.060 Based on a physical confrontation over a seat at a track meet.

00:51:27.940 And we need to figure out what, what that is.

00:51:30.120 What's wrong.

00:51:30.740 Why did he do that?

00:51:32.080 Uh, I don't think, look, he's going to get his day in court and he'll get due process and

00:51:35.200 all that.

00:51:35.600 What, what's more most interesting to me is what drives a young man to behave that way

00:51:40.160 in the first place.

00:51:40.860 And that's, I don't know whether we'll ever know.

00:51:42.440 I hope we will.

00:51:43.260 All right.

00:51:43.640 Stand by guys.

00:51:44.240 We'll be right back.

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00:53:29.780 Steve, you mentioned it at the top of our first hour together in passing.

00:53:35.080 And I wanted to get into it.

00:53:37.280 So Colorado has done something absolutely insane when it comes to the transgender madness. 1.00

00:53:44.600 The house, the state house in Colorado has passed a bill that seeks to punish parents

00:53:49.580 in custody disputes who will not use the new gender pronouns or name of their own child.

00:54:00.760 So if your child gets corrupted by some left wing school teacher into believing that he's

00:54:08.000 really a she and then he goes to school every day and he's dressing like a girl when you're

00:54:11.980 not there and he changes his name, you know, from Eric to Emma and the whole school's calling

00:54:18.340 him Emma and he's dressing like a girl when he's at school and nobody's told you as the

00:54:22.400 parent, then if you and your spouse get a divorce and let's say the wife wants to affirm Emma

00:54:29.500 because now it comes out and she's fine with what the school's done and you're not, your child's

00:54:34.740 gender has been reversed by a school without your knowledge or consent and you as the dad

00:54:40.480 say, that is Eric and I'm going to sue the school for doing this and this is outrageous. 0.85

00:54:45.920 You should have brought this to me and I will fight my crazy wife for custody over this because 1.00

00:54:50.840 she should not be affirming this and she doesn't deserve custody. 0.99

00:54:54.140 I deserve at least half.

00:54:55.040 I'm a good dad.

00:54:55.920 They're going to make it count against you as if you are an abuser if you refer to the

00:55:06.320 kid as Eric and or call Eric he and say he's a him.

00:55:12.020 This is absolute madness.

00:55:14.440 It's true craziness and it passed the Colorado State House by a party line vote.

00:55:21.260 So every single dem except one voted in favor of this madness and it's on its way to the

00:55:27.400 Colorado State Senate.

00:55:29.040 What do you make of it?

00:55:30.180 For one, elections have consequences and it wasn't too long ago that Colorado sent a Native 1.00

00:55:37.520 American Republican to the U.S. Senate and Ben Nighthorse Campbell.

00:55:41.540 It wasn't too long ago that Republicans were very competitive in the state, could win the

00:55:45.580 state frequently in presidential elections.

00:55:47.980 You have one or two elections.

00:55:51.020 There's a state to the north of me where I live in Iowa here, Megan, in Minnesota.

00:55:55.220 And its culture is very similar to the one we have in Iowa, but it's a tale of two states.

00:55:59.400 One has a governor in Kim Reynolds, the other a governor in Tim Walls.

00:56:02.480 And if you lose, it's a wrong period of time to these kinds of revolutionaries and radicals.

00:56:07.700 I went up and spoke to the Minnesota State Legislature's conservative caucus a year ago.

00:56:12.500 And they said, hey, we've never seen things like this.

00:56:14.740 I mean, this is the state that even Reagan couldn't win, even they were like, one election

00:56:17.920 changed this entire state into California.

00:56:20.440 They've had a couple of bad election cycles in a row recently in Colorado.

00:56:23.640 And now there is really no distinction between the Colorado State Assembly and what goes on

00:56:27.920 in Sacramento every single day in California.

00:56:30.480 All right.

00:56:30.720 And we have to understand now, ultimately, what time it is.

00:56:34.700 We cannot allow the left to gain a foothold of power because these are the things they

00:56:40.160 will do wherever they get that power.

00:56:42.360 But in turn, now, we need to also be nominating Republicans who understand what time it is

00:56:46.000 and are willing to use the power we give them to stop them from doing things to us like this.

00:56:50.360 So that's the first thing that stands out to me.

00:56:52.700 Number two, this is a hallmark of every totalitarian belief system.

00:56:56.820 We have 7,000 years of recorded human history.

00:56:59.900 And there's a couple of things that you see in every single human society.

00:57:03.100 And here's one of them.

00:57:03.780 Every time there's any form of strain of totalitarianism takes over in any culture or gains a foothold

00:57:09.240 in any culture, they always turn the kids against their parents every single time.

00:57:12.840 They always turn the children into instruments and tools of the movement, instruments and

00:57:17.100 tools of the revolution, instruments and tools of agitprop and of the state, and against

00:57:22.080 the parents in order to use the children, essentially, as some form of police force.

00:57:27.400 The brown shirts we saw 100 years ago, that wasn't a new thing.

00:57:31.580 It was just a different uniform.

00:57:32.900 And so this is what you're seeing here now.

00:57:35.460 And this is where this stuff was always going to go here.

00:57:38.440 The one thing the late, great Robert Bork was wrong about is we don't slouch to Gomorrah,

00:57:42.200 we sprint.

00:57:43.140 And ultimately, the reason why they hate slippery slope arguments on the left is because they're

00:57:46.480 undefeated.

00:57:47.420 They're undefeated.

00:57:48.380 I mean, these are the questions we've been asking.

00:57:50.460 How far are we going to go with all of this?

00:57:52.480 By which moral standard will we draw the line?

00:57:54.860 And the answer is none.

00:57:56.340 There is absolutely none at all.

00:57:58.280 Because whatever grants leftist power and control, that is what they will utilize, because that

00:58:03.700 is the foundations of the leftist belief system.

00:58:06.700 Whatever grants me more power and control and turning your children against you grants

00:58:10.940 me a unique amount of both. 0.98

00:58:12.820 This is so sick.

00:58:16.120 And Delato, I have to tell you, it's illegal.

00:58:18.020 It's unconstitutional.

00:58:18.940 It will be struck down.

00:58:19.900 I mean, we just had a whole case, 303 Creative, not long ago, out of Colorado, where somebody

00:58:25.660 was punished by the Colorado state system for not making websites for certain members of

00:58:33.200 the LGBTQ crowd.

00:58:35.560 And she said, it's not consistent with my belief to celebrate, to post videos about a

00:58:42.020 trans marriage, et cetera.

00:58:44.180 And the Colorado legislature said, no, you will be punished because that's not consistent

00:58:51.280 with our human rights law.

00:58:52.620 And the U.S. Supreme Court found in favor of the web designer, saying the state cannot force

00:58:58.640 her to say certain things in support of a certain ideology that she doesn't believe.

00:59:05.240 That is not consistent with the First Amendment.

00:59:08.400 And similarly, the state cannot punish a father, in my hypothetical, could be a mother, whatever,

00:59:14.320 for refusing to adopt fake pronouns about his or her own child.

00:59:20.440 And not only that, but deprive them of custody of it.

00:59:23.300 But separate and apart from all that, morally, just morally, this is deeply wrong.

00:59:29.320 And trying to strong-arm parents into supporting a process and an ideology that are extremely

00:59:35.580 dangerous for minors.

00:59:38.820 Yeah, I think one of the most important things that any conservative legislator, policymaker,

00:59:45.060 or politician could do is to state unequivocally, whether you start in Genesis or the human

00:59:50.420 genome, there are two sexes, male and female, and switching is not allowed.

00:59:54.440 And all sort of family policy, every issue dealing with this particular subject should

01:00:00.420 flow from that sort of bedrock reality.

01:00:03.780 I'm not surprised Colorado got here, but I do want to caution listeners and viewers.

01:00:08.980 This is not just a crazy leftist state, crazy blue state issue.

01:00:13.220 This is the, Megan, the scenario that you painted was exactly what a man named Jeff Younger went

01:00:18.160 through, this is probably five, six, seven years ago, Jeff ended up running for, he went

01:00:24.860 through this in Texas.

01:00:26.100 And I believe that the judge in that case granted his ex-wife custody of their child,

01:00:31.300 who the wife was calling Luna, right?

01:00:33.660 That wasn't the boy's name.

01:00:35.240 And he went on to run for office and, I mean, has talked about how difficult this particular

01:00:41.540 situation has been for him.

01:00:43.280 And this is exactly what Colorado is doing.

01:00:45.800 And really, to Steve's point, this is a window into the mind of leftists, where they invert

01:00:52.580 reality with their words, because they have a God complex, right?

01:00:58.160 So they think that they can create reality ex nihilo.

01:01:01.460 They can speak words and sort of life will sort of bend around the things that they say.

01:01:07.140 So they call, quote unquote, conversion therapy when you actually affirm the sex or sexuality

01:01:14.580 of a human being.

01:01:16.320 And they call, quote unquote, gender affirming care when you put a kid on cross-sex hormones, 0.62

01:01:21.740 on puberty blockers, when you subject, you know, teen girls to double mastectomies and,

01:01:28.080 quote unquote, gender affirming hysterectomies.

01:01:30.900 So this is what they do.

01:01:32.300 They try to create reality through their words, and every single one of those politicians

01:01:37.920 who voted for that should be primaried.

01:01:40.040 And if I was a conservative in Colorado, I would be running ads on this particular issue,

01:01:46.040 targeting parents nonstop from now until the next election.

01:01:49.420 Because as you said, Megan, this is, you know, a complete insanity.

01:01:54.120 I will say this, last thing here.

01:01:55.860 It's important to realize that this stuff doesn't sort of just spring up out of the ether

01:02:01.520 and the kids are not just, it's not just that kids are being targeted by Disney and

01:02:05.440 other, you know, media companies.

01:02:07.280 We're talking about the schools.

01:02:09.000 And we've known that colleges and universities have been, you know, sort of leftist indoctrination

01:02:13.880 centers for a long time.

01:02:15.240 But now the left is trying to pull this back down to K through 12.

01:02:19.300 And one of the things that it must do for parents is to spark an education revolution

01:02:25.240 in this country.

01:02:26.500 And part of that is going to be an increasing number of parents saying, not only am I fully

01:02:31.120 in favor of school choice, you know, and that might be, you know, universal school choice,

01:02:36.660 education savings accounts in some states, but some parents are going to have to make the

01:02:40.720 decision that if I want to ensure that my children are educated according to our value

01:02:45.900 system, the only way to guarantee that that's, that I can do that is if I teach them myself.

01:02:50.580 So I do think that you're going to see this lead to a resurgence in homeschooling in many

01:02:55.380 of these states.

01:02:56.420 You know, this was too radical for Gavin Newsom in California.

01:03:02.500 The California state legislature passed a bill just like this and Gavin Newsom refused to sign

01:03:10.360 it.

01:03:11.220 That's how crazy this is.

01:03:13.560 And you accurately point out, Steve, it wasn't so long ago, Colorado was reddish purple.

01:03:19.500 Now it's considered blue, but there's probably a healthy red strain in there that could be

01:03:24.560 revived if they go too far.

01:03:27.040 And if you're too radical for Gavin Newsom, aren't you too radical for Jared Polis to sign?

01:03:33.740 I mean, we're going to find out.

01:03:35.220 We'll see what the Colorado state Senate does and then what Polis does. 0.90

01:03:39.080 But this is crazy town.

01:03:41.480 And again, the speech restrictions, I think, will be overturned as unconstitutional.

01:03:46.320 All right, let's move on.

01:03:47.120 I have other things I need to get to.

01:03:48.580 Go, go quickly.

01:03:49.540 I was just going to say, if there's such a still such a thing as the Colorado Republican

01:03:53.040 Party, you just did their 2026 campaign ad.

01:03:56.200 This is too radical for Gavin Newsom.

01:03:58.120 It has to be too radical for Colorado.

01:03:59.940 Now, I don't know if there's a Colorado Republican Party anymore, but if there is, you just did an in-kind

01:04:04.580 contribution with that.

01:04:06.160 They should listen to me.

01:04:07.320 They would probably do better.

01:04:08.940 Okay.

01:04:10.180 Speaking of speech that is problematic, AOC has been out there on this, I don't know if

01:04:16.880 it's campaign trail.

01:04:17.540 I don't know what we're calling it, but this like fight the oligarchy tour with Bernie Sanders

01:04:21.000 from which, you know, venue to venue, she travels first class, sipping her champagne,

01:04:26.160 you know, in the first class cabin as the losers and plebs walk by to coach the one she's 0.99

01:04:32.380 really fighting for, and she's decided to ramp up her anti-Trump rhetoric in a way she's

01:04:40.020 done before, but that could be deeply problematic for her if Trump actually decides to pay some

01:04:44.620 attention to her.

01:04:46.260 Listen to her just the other day, Sat 11. 0.94

01:04:51.440 Donald Trump is a criminal who was found guilty of 34 felony counts of fraud. 1.00

01:05:02.380 Liable for sexual abuse. 1.00

01:05:06.800 Of course, he's lying and abusing and manipulating the stock market, too. 1.00

01:05:13.780 When he talks about rapists and criminals, he should look in the mirror. 0.99

01:05:21.340 Okay, clearly saying that Donald Trump is a racist. 1.00

01:05:33.760 Sorry, rapist. 1.00

01:05:34.900 She also thinks he's a racist. 1.00

01:05:36.200 He's all the ists. 0.98

01:05:37.600 But here, she's in deep trouble because he was not found liable for rape, and George Stephanopoulos

01:05:46.140 just had to pay ABC some $15 million to President Trump to settle a defamation lawsuit for saying

01:05:53.440 that.

01:05:53.740 She doesn't have any privilege out on the campaign stump. 1.00

01:05:56.680 She can't.

01:05:57.160 She's not protected by speech and debate while she's out there. 0.98

01:06:00.160 And I ask you, Steve, whether Trump should do something about this, because quickly,

01:06:04.560 here she was just in January on social media about his inauguration.

01:06:11.140 Listen to her there.

01:06:11.740 All these journalists are like, Congresswoman, are you going to the inauguration?

01:06:15.920 Congresswoman, are you going to the inauguration?

01:06:17.960 Are you going to the inauguration?

01:06:20.000 Let me make myself clear.

01:06:22.640 I don't celebrate rapists.

01:06:26.200 So no, I'm not going to the inauguration tomorrow.

01:06:30.720 That's at least twice.

01:06:31.880 Yeah, I'm 10,000% in favor of consequences being ratcheted up comprehensively in the culture

01:06:39.880 at the moment.

01:06:40.580 So I commend so festival of lawsuits and lawfare.

01:06:44.900 To me, this would be just restitutional for everything they put the president through in

01:06:52.020 the last year and a half.

01:06:53.480 So sure, I'm completely and totally in favor of it.

01:06:57.120 In fact, now that you mentioned it, I'm kind of surprised he hasn't done this already.

01:07:00.720 Yeah, I think he's probably just not paying attention to her.

01:07:03.640 But, you know, think about it.

01:07:05.080 Well, hold on now.

01:07:05.760 You may have also stumbled on something there.

01:07:07.800 That might be the ultimate diss.

01:07:09.820 Like, you're just not even worth the salt in my tears.

01:07:11.980 I have no idea who you are.

01:07:13.360 Exactly.

01:07:13.860 You're not even worthy of a lawsuit.

01:07:15.600 Exactly.

01:07:16.140 Yes.

01:07:16.600 But think about it.

01:07:17.300 Like, we've gotten so used to people saying the worst things about Trump.

01:07:21.000 I mean, truly the worst things that you're kind of like, whatever.

01:07:24.540 But like, if a picture like yourself or anyone, you know, if you got called that word, you

01:07:30.980 would absolutely sue her.

01:07:32.600 You know, like it would be so jarring and upsetting and defamatory.

01:07:36.340 There'd be no question that you needed to do something about it.

01:07:38.840 And really, the standards should not change just because you're Donald Trump. 0.87

01:07:42.700 Yes, as a politician, you need to take barbs like he's a liar. 0.99

01:07:46.380 He's a bad person.

01:07:47.760 You know, those those are opinions to which she's totally entitled stating that he is

01:07:52.160 a rapist is a statement of fact, which is false and has been rejected by a court of

01:07:58.700 law.

01:07:59.960 And she continues to do it.

01:08:01.500 So what do you make of it?

01:08:04.120 It's the campaign rhetoric they want to hear.

01:08:06.600 And it's because here's the thing.

01:08:08.060 Delano.

01:08:08.440 Oh, Delano.

01:08:08.960 My bad.

01:08:09.400 My bad.

01:08:10.040 Go ahead.

01:08:11.000 No, I agree with Steve.

01:08:12.660 I would to me, the the heavier the claim, the heavier the burden of proof in terms of

01:08:19.560 bringing evidence to bear.

01:08:20.820 You just can't go and say things about people.

01:08:23.280 I remember this happened when Justice Kavanaugh was being confirmed and there was a political

01:08:29.660 analyst on MSNBC who basically said, I'm paraphrasing, he was on Joey Reed's show, so

01:08:34.140 that'll give you a sense of what's coming.

01:08:35.860 He said, Kavanaugh is like all the guys I grew up with, you know, in the sort of DMV area.

01:08:41.380 He was the last guy in a gang rape.

01:08:45.160 And I thought to myself then, I said, I hope Justice Kavanaugh sues this guy under a bridge

01:08:50.340 because I think people have gotten way too reckless with their words, way too willing

01:08:55.600 to say things and make claims about people that they can't substantiate with evidence.

01:09:01.300 And to your point, Megan, President Trump is not above the law, but he's not below it

01:09:04.620 either.

01:09:04.940 And this is a standard that I hold across the board, irrespective of political ideology

01:09:10.600 or sort of partisan affiliation of skin color or religion.

01:09:14.880 If you're going to make a claim about somebody, you're going to accuse them of some of the

01:09:19.100 worst crimes known to man, you better come with some evidence.

01:09:22.520 But there's another issue here that I want to point out.

01:09:28.320 In addition to, you know, I said I live in Maryland, so I'm very familiar with the way

01:09:33.100 blue states operate.

01:09:34.020 I worked in local government for almost 15 years.

01:09:37.400 My last year was in the gun violence prevention office, and I did some restorative justice

01:09:42.000 training.

01:09:42.420 I got certified in restorative justice.

01:09:44.420 And one of the things that I noticed is that the people in restorative justice were always

01:09:49.440 against punishment.

01:09:50.300 They hated the punitive aspect of the justice system, unless it was against people that

01:09:55.480 they didn't like.

01:09:56.060 So if it was against January Sixers, oh, throw them in jail for the rest of their life.

01:10:01.240 If it was against Trump, throw the book at him.

01:10:03.740 And AOC is using sort of words like felon and criminal in a pejorative sense.

01:10:12.900 Today, when she's talking about Trump, any other time it would be about ban the box.

01:10:17.800 We shouldn't ask people about their criminal history.

01:10:20.620 You know, people deserve a second chance.

01:10:22.780 So the left really isn't against, quote unquote, mass incarceration.

01:10:27.720 They just want a weaponized legal system so that they can enact vengeance against the

01:10:32.740 people that they do not like. 0.53

01:10:34.540 And I think that they should be called out on this hypocrisy.

01:10:37.540 Spot on.

01:10:38.160 I mean, he really, he's not going to shut her up unless he does sue her.

01:10:40.520 And if he made an example out of her, it would be amazing.

01:10:42.900 But, you know, I do think he's got more important things to do at the moment.

01:10:46.100 Guys, you've been wonderful.

01:10:47.660 Thank you so much for being here.

01:10:48.820 Steve Dace, Delano Squires, please come back.

01:10:51.180 You bet.

01:10:51.460 Anytime.

01:10:51.960 Thank you.

01:10:52.960 Awesome.

01:10:53.540 Wow.

01:10:54.400 Gosh, it's so infuriating to watch her do that, isn't it?

01:10:56.840 It's like she has no basis.

01:10:57.960 She just wants to smear him.

01:10:59.260 That'll go over great with her crowd. 0.99

01:11:00.820 But over and over again, she gets that word into people's head and it's wrong.

01:11:04.460 It's factually wrong.

01:11:05.640 It's legally wrong.

01:11:06.960 It's morally wrong.

01:11:08.300 But that's AOC for you.

01:11:09.580 That's the left's great white hope right there.

01:11:13.880 Sandy Cortez and her, the way she talks, her weird affect in front of the crowd. 0.76

01:11:20.740 I don't know what she's doing, but I predict that on the more massive national stage, it's 0.66

01:11:27.200 not going to go well for her.

01:11:28.200 They think that's their hope for 2028.

01:11:30.340 Let's see.

01:11:31.160 I don't think so.

01:11:32.140 I really don't.

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01:12:56.140 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on Sirius XM.

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01:14:00.540 Now we're joined by the official poet of The Megan Kelly Show, the uncancellable, thanks

01:14:05.600 to all of you, Joseph Massey.

01:14:07.940 Joseph has a new book of poetry just out.

01:14:10.340 It's out today, in fact.

01:14:11.300 It's called America is the Poem, and it is absolutely gorgeous.

01:14:15.960 It's based on a poem he wrote in advance of the inauguration, and here he is reading just

01:14:21.680 part of that.

01:14:23.600 Rain washes the dust from train windows as we barrel through the poem of America.

01:14:30.840 What you were and will be again.

01:14:33.840 I see you in silos rising like fists from farmland.

01:14:41.300 America, the land itself says, fight.

01:14:46.880 America, you defy the narratives imposed to poison your majesty.

01:14:53.540 There is no other time to watch her rise again.

01:15:01.360 Joseph, absolutely well done.

01:15:03.720 Welcome back to the show.

01:15:04.880 I love that, and just hearing you read that gave me the chills a couple of times, like incredibly

01:15:10.080 moving words, the way you read it.

01:15:12.660 And our mutual friend, Sasha Stone, did the video over it.

01:15:17.560 So that's awesome.

01:15:18.820 Love the partnership.

01:15:19.860 What inspired you to write it?

01:15:22.980 Well, I'll tell you what inspired me.

01:15:25.460 It was when Trump was, when the assassination attempt occurred in Butler, PA.

01:15:31.240 I started to kind of come around to Trump, because that assassination attempt, when he stood up

01:15:38.900 with blood on his face, everything became much more real to me.

01:15:44.420 Trump was no longer like a character.

01:15:47.460 You know, he wasn't some showman or carnival barker like I had kind of had in my head about

01:15:53.160 him for a long time.

01:15:55.740 And it became so real, so viscerally real, what the stakes were with the election.

01:16:02.300 And so I think the poem started writing itself then.

01:16:06.860 But then after he won, I decided to just go for it and to try to make it happen.

01:16:14.620 But even if I didn't get to read the poem at the inauguration, I wanted to end up with

01:16:18.420 a poem that I was proud of and that fellow Americans could be proud of as well.

01:16:24.860 You wrote the poem and now parlayed it into your latest book called America is the Poem.

01:16:32.140 Both the poem's called that and the book is called that.

01:16:34.320 Let's get this out up front.

01:16:36.240 How can people buy the book?

01:16:38.440 On Amazon.

01:16:40.620 That's where you could buy it.

01:16:41.680 And you can get it as a Kindle e-book or as a paperback.

01:16:45.940 Yeah.

01:16:46.480 Okay.

01:16:47.040 And the reason we want to make sure people know that they can go and support you directly

01:16:50.720 at Amazon and buy this book, America is the Poem, is because no one wanted you to

01:16:56.540 be here.

01:16:57.480 Your industry didn't want you to be here.

01:16:59.520 Your critics didn't want us to be discussing your poetry.

01:17:02.880 They wanted you, basically, your voice snuffed out and never to be heard from again because

01:17:08.700 you got swept up with really just a dispute with an ex-girlfriend in the Me Too movement

01:17:14.380 and the most vicious people of all, the poetry industry.

01:17:21.520 Who knew?

01:17:22.680 People thought it might be educators.

01:17:25.220 Who knew?

01:17:25.700 No one had their money on the poets being the nastiest group of people, but man, they

01:17:31.600 tried to snuff you out permanently.

01:17:34.160 So for the audience that hasn't yet heard that story, can you just give us the quick

01:17:37.120 overview of what they tried to do to you?

01:17:40.400 Yeah.

01:17:40.960 Well, I wrote an essay for Colette that goes into great detail about the whole thing.

01:17:46.520 It's my side of the story.

01:17:47.700 Anyone can check that out for all those details.

01:17:51.920 But yeah, I was living a decent, clean life after being kind of a drunk in my 20s and being

01:17:58.320 a bit inappropriate at times, as I admitted in the essay and various public declarations

01:18:04.780 that didn't go anywhere.

01:18:06.260 It was just throwing chum to sharks.

01:18:08.840 But yeah, it was brutal.

01:18:13.340 It all started with a fake letter.

01:18:15.060 It was a forged letter written by somebody who claimed they met me at a poetry reading.

01:18:19.740 And then I called her hot. 0.98

01:18:21.780 And it was put on a WordPress website.

01:18:24.160 And then this woman that I had been involved in, involved with, posted the link with malicious 0.93

01:18:30.900 intent.

01:18:31.800 And it just spread like wildfire through the poetry community and beyond into the wider literary

01:18:38.120 world.

01:18:38.860 It was mentioned in Publishers Weekly.

01:18:40.700 There was a disgusting, defamatory article published about me in some magazine that's

01:18:48.500 defunct now.

01:18:49.340 But at the time, it got a lot of traction.

01:18:51.640 And so I immediately lost jobs.

01:18:53.280 I lost a job I had at the University of Pennsylvania.

01:18:56.220 I lost book deals.

01:18:58.100 I had a book coming out with Wesleyan University Press that was scrapped.

01:19:02.260 And I lost all my friends.

01:19:03.780 I lost all my social networks.

01:19:05.100 So it took a year, all of 2018 and most of 2019, to kind of just rebuild a sense of self

01:19:13.000 again, which I did through God, through Jesus Christ, and through the Catholic Church specifically.

01:19:20.600 And then I was able to re-engage my poetry in a way that was even more vital and important.

01:19:27.180 I realized that I never wrote poetry to become successful.

01:19:29.700 It was always a survival, kind of a survival skill for me.

01:19:34.560 Do you wonder why you haven't been welcomed back in?

01:19:40.900 You know, you were reviewed by the New York Times and all these other mainstream so-called

01:19:44.780 publications.

01:19:45.740 And we're seeing many men who were kind of canceled by the Me Too movement, given a road

01:19:53.600 back.

01:19:55.200 Why not you?

01:19:56.560 Like, what's to stop you from going that route?

01:19:59.880 Why wouldn't they allow you back?

01:20:02.760 What's to stop me?

01:20:03.940 Other poets are the ones.

01:20:06.040 You're not allowed back once you've been canceled.

01:20:08.980 And in my case, I'm even more of a boogeyman to them because, well, I published that essay

01:20:19.900 in Quillette, which at that time in 2019, they were all screaming, oh, he's publishing in

01:20:25.360 a fascist publication, Quillette, of all things.

01:20:29.280 And then I dared to self-publish and appear on your show.

01:20:34.080 And I started expressing political opinions on X or then Twitter.

01:20:39.780 And so now I'm not called the things that they were calling me before.

01:20:44.540 Now I'm the fascist.

01:20:46.640 And the funniest thing I was called recently because of the inaugural poem I wrote was the

01:20:52.100 Poet Laureate of White People, which I thought about including as a blurb on the back of the 0.95

01:20:59.640 book, but then I decided against it.

01:21:02.260 That is so weird.

01:21:02.980 I don't even understand that.

01:21:05.100 That's not something you write about.

01:21:06.520 You're not like, that's not your thing.

01:21:08.260 Your thing is beauty.

01:21:09.780 And you find beauty in the smallest places and you spread it both with your photography

01:21:13.780 and your poems and you spread it to all of us if we follow you on Substack, on your weekly

01:21:19.100 newsletter, which you deliver by email, on your poems, on your books.

01:21:23.920 So I don't even get the race thing.

01:21:25.620 Is that just to diminish you because they think you're a Trump supporter?

01:21:29.560 That's solely the reason.

01:21:30.940 That's the only reason.

01:21:34.120 And when I posted a picture of myself wearing a Trump t-shirt, it was like being canceled

01:21:39.980 all over again.

01:21:41.840 Getting messages from friends or people I thought were friends.

01:21:46.480 I can't believe you would do this.

01:21:47.940 I can't believe it.

01:21:49.320 Like what?

01:21:50.240 Why?

01:21:50.500 And it was, they never really have any concrete arguments.

01:21:53.560 It's just pure reactivity.

01:21:57.380 And it's not the kind of behavior I ever expected from poets.

01:22:02.000 Growing up and reading poetry, reading Rimbaud and Blake and et cetera.

01:22:07.020 I mean, these people were outliers.

01:22:09.980 They were rebels.

01:22:11.580 They weren't just towing the line.

01:22:14.300 And poets these days, like every other artist in every other field, they seem to just toe

01:22:19.000 the line to keep the federal, to keep the grant money coming.

01:22:22.320 Yeah, they're uptight social justice scolds. 1.00

01:22:23.020 Yes, yeah, yeah.

01:22:25.820 And I wonder what percentage of them just do it to keep themselves out of the line of

01:22:30.020 fire, you know?

01:22:31.140 Even still, even in 2025?

01:22:34.800 Yeah, yeah.

01:22:35.900 Oh, I know.

01:22:36.640 It's, it's, there's a, there's apparently a big cancellation going on right now.

01:22:41.400 I won't say any details, but it's just as ugly as it was in 2018.

01:22:46.460 And so I decided, I realized a year or two after the cancellation started that I wasn't

01:22:53.180 going to be allowed back and I'm going to have to do it myself.

01:22:56.480 And so this book and the prior two books, three books are published under my own imprint.

01:23:02.360 And so they can't cancel me.

01:23:03.980 They can't pull my book because they think I'm a fascist or the poet laureate of white

01:23:09.100 people.

01:23:11.400 So.

01:23:12.080 And it drives them crazy.

01:23:14.000 It does drive them crazy.

01:23:15.980 Yeah.

01:23:16.460 And I can't say I mind.

01:23:18.700 You're, you are moving up the ranks already.

01:23:21.820 We have to make sure that Joseph hits number one.

01:23:24.620 We have to make sure in poetry and who are you bouncing off of the number one spot?

01:23:28.880 If we managed to make this happen.

01:23:31.100 Well, I would like to take the number one spot from Maria Shriver. 1.00

01:23:36.280 Maria Shriver has a book of poetry out and it's, it's, it's abysmal.

01:23:41.760 She's not a, she's not a poet.

01:23:44.320 She's not a poet.

01:23:45.340 She could have not broken the lines up and it would have been probably maybe a better

01:23:50.060 book, but she's a, yeah, not, not a poet.

01:23:53.760 This needs to happen.

01:23:54.660 I should take that spot.

01:23:55.960 Yes.

01:23:56.680 Yes.

01:23:57.180 Please, please.

01:23:58.340 You know what?

01:23:58.820 We're here just in time for father's day and mother's day coming up, uh, in June and May,

01:24:04.300 respectively.

01:24:04.780 This is a beautiful gift.

01:24:06.240 Why?

01:24:06.700 Like, what are you going to do?

01:24:07.800 You're going to give like another coffee mug or picture frame or bouquet of flowers.

01:24:12.980 Okay.

01:24:13.380 I mean, fine.

01:24:14.280 Nice try.

01:24:14.820 But coupled with a book of poetry called America is the poem, something patriotic, something

01:24:20.640 that will stir a feeling inside of them away.

01:24:24.160 A bouquet of flowers never could do.

01:24:26.160 That's what you need to do.

01:24:27.160 Go to Amazon right now.

01:24:28.540 Buy it.

01:24:28.900 It's called America is the poem by Joseph Massey.

01:24:31.140 And not only are you getting a great gift for yourself or someone you love, but you're 0.99

01:24:35.120 supporting Joseph Massey and most importantly, giving a strong middle finger to the assholes 0.99

01:24:42.060 who tried to ruin this man twice, right? 0.99

01:24:45.800 For being swept up, uh, in an alleged me too situation.

01:24:48.880 And then for being a Trump supporter, we're the answer.

01:24:51.700 We are the answer.

01:24:52.720 We're the only ones who can tell the woke Puritan mobs.

01:24:56.080 He's not canceled F off.

01:24:58.840 That's what I love so much about your story is like so many of our audience and others

01:25:04.020 got behind you when they heard the story and said, we refuse to let you keep him down.

01:25:09.160 You know, we refuse.

01:25:10.260 And most people don't even care to be honest about the specifics of what happened in this

01:25:14.580 whole me too.

01:25:15.180 It's like, okay, whatever it was, you paid a mighty price.

01:25:18.540 You lost your whole career.

01:25:19.940 Oh, your quote respectability, but you refused to stay down.

01:25:24.320 Even though Joseph, you had zero connections, zero power.

01:25:28.480 And I think it's fair to say zero money.

01:25:31.680 That's, that's absolutely right.

01:25:33.160 Yeah.

01:25:33.600 I was living in a, in substandard conditions in a basement apartment and just getting,

01:25:39.980 just starting to make it working at UPenn part-time.

01:25:43.120 And then the cancellation happened and I, it lost everything.

01:25:47.380 And so it's been a steady process of rebuilding, but I've, you're right.

01:25:51.260 I've never stopped.

01:25:52.040 And that drive to write poetry has been with me since I was a child.

01:25:55.480 You know, it's always been a survival, um, tool.

01:25:58.540 It's always been something I use to, to process the world and make sense of the world around

01:26:02.960 me.

01:26:03.460 They can't take that from me.

01:26:05.240 And any real artist isn't going to let a mob take that from them. 0.74

01:26:09.780 So anyone who's being canceled, just keep doing what you're doing.

01:26:12.980 Mm-hmm.

01:26:14.100 The, um, the updates on your ex feed sometimes, at least certainly less recently, uh, often

01:26:23.900 are pretty honest about how you struggle with depression and, you know, are feeling at times

01:26:31.180 hopeless about, can I make it?

01:26:33.560 Are people following, you know, does my voice matter?

01:26:36.380 But then I saw you move to a nicer place.

01:26:39.360 You got out of the basement and you got a cat and I saw signs of like hope, both in

01:26:45.860 your writing and in your posts.

01:26:47.860 Have you experienced an uplift?

01:26:51.460 Oh, absolutely.

01:26:52.940 Yeah.

01:26:53.400 I mean, I, I live in an, in an amazing apartment that has heat and, uh, doesn't have mold on

01:26:59.860 the walls.

01:27:00.620 You don't ask for a cat.

01:27:02.460 I don't ask.

01:27:03.640 I know.

01:27:04.500 Jarvis.

01:27:04.900 My, um, I, Jarvis is great.

01:27:07.100 I have a wonderful tuxedo cat who makes me, make sure I get to bed at a certain time and

01:27:11.680 wakes me up at four in the morning.

01:27:13.120 It's like living in a monastery or something.

01:27:16.260 And, um, yeah, I, I live in upstate New York now.

01:27:19.460 It's great.

01:27:19.920 It's beautiful.

01:27:20.440 The landscape is great.

01:27:21.760 Um, uh, my poetry is paying for my groceries and paying for my, paying my utilities and paying

01:27:27.100 my rent.

01:27:28.040 That's not a common situation for, for a poet, unless you're Maria Shriver.

01:27:33.320 And she doesn't need the money. 0.99

01:27:36.800 We all know that she's married to Arnold.

01:27:38.280 Well, she's his ex.

01:27:39.500 I'm sure she did just fine in that divorce.

01:27:41.760 Um, now her son's a big star too.

01:27:43.780 He's got a Nepo baby starring in the latest White Lotus. 1.00

01:27:46.280 So we don't want Maria Shriver at the top of the poetry list. 0.88

01:27:49.640 We want Joseph Massey there.

01:27:52.440 America is the poem is the name of the book.

01:27:55.220 So tell me, how do you, how do you spend your days?

01:27:57.860 Like, I would think if you're a poet, you need to be outside walking a lot.

01:28:02.620 You need to be like touching grass.

01:28:04.720 I know you're very connected with nature in general, but I've, I would think if you lived

01:28:07.880 my average day, you would not be inspired to write one word of beauty.

01:28:14.540 Yeah, it's a lot.

01:28:16.360 It's a contemplative lifestyle.

01:28:18.800 I walk a lot and while I'm walking, I'm thinking about poetry or I'm praying and prayer is a

01:28:25.900 big part of my life.

01:28:27.080 And all of that is inextricably connected to my creative life, to the poetry.

01:28:34.240 Um, I feel like most things I do are in service to the work.

01:28:38.760 Um, even when I'm on the couch watching White Lotus, for example, like I need to come down

01:28:44.520 a little bit from all of it, um, and kind of tune it out.

01:28:47.700 But everything's in service to the work.

01:28:50.400 Um, and I, that's the way it should be.

01:28:52.940 You know, that's the way I've, I've always, I've always lived, whether I was canceled or

01:28:57.140 not canceled or standing at a wine and cheese party after a poetry reading and just wanting

01:29:03.680 to run out the back door. 0.80

01:29:05.440 Um, it's always just been about the art for me.

01:29:09.800 I love it because those pictures make you feel something special too.

01:29:13.640 And we've all walked by like the puddle with the reflection of the white church steeple

01:29:19.000 and thought, Oh, that's so pretty, but only you will stop and take a picture of it.

01:29:23.380 And the lighting of your shots is just right.

01:29:25.860 You post it online and it's the same exact thing as your poems.

01:29:29.360 It's like just a moment of feeling something serene, godly, spiritual, beautiful in the

01:29:37.780 midst of X, which is where I consume most of your posts, which is, you know, of course

01:29:44.240 a toxic wasteland.

01:29:45.560 Like, I mean, that's what social media is and that's kind of why we're there, but just

01:29:49.220 a reminder of your humanity.

01:29:50.820 I mean, that's the service that you're doing us all and the books all the more so because

01:29:55.280 that's something you can sit down with, especially people who can't meditate.

01:29:59.040 I know a lot of people are like, I can't, you know, it takes up too much of my, like,

01:30:02.780 as soon as I try to calm my mind, my mind goes nuts.

01:30:05.160 And I think about every problem, my to-do list, but I feel like poetry is almost a way of

01:30:09.760 meditating without meditating, right?

01:30:12.640 Like you can fill your mind.

01:30:14.400 It's kind of like a crossword.

01:30:16.220 If you just focus on the words, you can't think of something else, but it's calming and

01:30:21.820 it's restorative.

01:30:22.960 Yeah, I think of it as a form of meditation and prayer, more so meditation because you're

01:30:31.560 forced to slow down.

01:30:33.660 You know, it's one line, one word at a time, and there's a lot of silence in poetry.

01:30:38.400 There's a lot of space around the poem, and there's a lot of room for thinking and contemplating.

01:30:43.860 And that's the whole goal of my work, whether I'm taking a picture or writing a poem, is to

01:30:49.360 get the viewer, the reader to slow down and to take the world in as it is in the present

01:30:57.780 moment and maybe to feel less impacted by the toxicity of, you know, social media, even

01:31:06.220 though I consume it as well.

01:31:08.940 But there needs to be some outlet that is away from that and that is nourishing for the

01:31:16.960 spirit and for the heart.

01:31:19.060 And poetry does that.

01:31:21.860 That's your poetry does that.

01:31:23.520 Not everybody's.

01:31:24.760 Again, it's called America is the Poem.

01:31:26.480 Buy it on Amazon.

01:31:27.440 America is the Poem by Joseph Massey.

01:31:29.100 The thing, too, about the, you know, the namesake of the book, uh, this poem is you

01:31:35.880 get why so many of us, and I think you share in, feel so optimistic about Trump's win and

01:31:43.980 what's possible over, you know, the next, I guess, two years, we'd have to say, because

01:31:49.040 if the Democrats win the House in the midterms, his agenda will be stymied.

01:31:53.320 But right now, it's all, it's no holds barred.

01:31:57.120 And while the media will tell you it's terrible, everyone's scared, it's a dark time, he's an

01:32:02.460 authoritarian, I think most of us who voted for him are still feeling extremely happy and

01:32:08.700 optimistic and relieved that the country did the right thing.

01:32:14.660 And that leads me to a different part of the poem than the one we played when you started,

01:32:19.640 in that soundbite in which we started.

01:32:20.880 I'm just going to read part of it with your permission.

01:32:24.280 Of course.

01:32:25.540 You, you write as follows.

01:32:28.400 America, for love, we go on.

01:32:31.360 America, you defy the narratives imposed to poison your majesty.

01:32:35.660 All the poison imposed to warp us away from our axis.

01:32:39.100 The true, the beautiful, what binds us to a shared reality, sealed under the hand of God.

01:32:45.680 Americans, may we all wake to the dawn this day with courage.

01:32:50.380 For we are the whirlwind promised by patriots who fought to the depth of a last breath to

01:32:57.800 birth America.

01:32:59.080 America, and we are here.

01:33:01.500 There is no other time to watch her rise again.

01:33:06.960 That's it.

01:33:08.260 That's beautiful.

01:33:09.360 You get it.

01:33:09.960 And unlike most of us, you can express it.

01:33:12.060 So have you been feeling it in the first 100 days or so?

01:33:17.140 Absolutely.

01:33:18.080 Yeah.

01:33:18.380 I don't feel any of the doom and gloom.

01:33:20.220 Even the tariff stuff didn't freak me out.

01:33:22.580 I didn't understand half of what I read anyway about tariffs.

01:33:25.200 But, you know, that part of the poem, America is a poem, is written on a train ride from upstate

01:33:33.820 New York to Chicago.

01:33:34.780 And just going through flyover country and seeing one town, one city after another, kind

01:33:40.600 of gutted because industry left.

01:33:42.360 And seeing what has been this kind of wreck that's been made of these small towns that

01:33:49.740 once thrived.

01:33:50.920 You know, you could see how they once thrived.

01:33:52.600 But all the bars and the baseball fields are, you know, boarded up and grown over.

01:33:58.000 And that inspired me.

01:34:00.280 And then when Trump won, it just, the poem just wrote itself.

01:34:03.220 You know, I mean, I think Trump won.

01:34:04.560 I know Trump won because America refused to roll over and die under, you know, woke policies,

01:34:14.000 woke agenda that is out to destroy the country, you know, to destroy, actually, to destroy the

01:34:22.360 idea of like objective truth.

01:34:24.640 You can't have a country where there's no objective truth.

01:34:28.800 And that's just at the most basic level.

01:34:32.820 Basic truth.

01:34:34.560 Beauty, godliness, serenity, connection with other.

01:34:39.340 That's what you're about.

01:34:40.420 And that's one of the many reasons I love your poetry, Joseph.

01:34:43.720 I want everybody, please, please, please go buy the book.

01:34:46.520 Okay.

01:34:46.980 America is the poem.

01:34:48.380 That's the name of it.

01:34:50.220 It's by Joseph Massey, who, if you go back and look at my very first interview with Joseph,

01:34:55.260 which was, hold on a second.

01:34:56.700 It's in my packet.

01:34:57.980 Pulled it up.

01:34:58.520 It was episode 296 in April of 2022.

01:35:04.600 We reveal the story of how I insisted on calling him Paul before I came to really understand

01:35:13.020 that was not his name.

01:35:14.180 And he let me for a short time.

01:35:18.080 I liked it.

01:35:18.920 I thought about changing it.

01:35:20.140 Yeah.

01:35:20.300 Well, it works, you know, from an apostle standpoint, but you're already good on that front.

01:35:25.260 You already got that covered.

01:35:26.700 So thank you.

01:35:27.520 Thank you for all the times you've been on.

01:35:28.920 Thank you.

01:35:29.220 So 296, 566, 754.

01:35:32.140 And now today we love it and we wish you all the best.

01:35:35.760 Thank you, Megan.

01:35:37.740 America is the poem on Amazon right now.

01:35:40.240 Get out of there, Maria Shriver. 1.00

01:35:41.900 You have enough.

01:35:42.900 By the way, on the subject of the woman who accused Joseph, when this story came out,

01:35:48.900 the Daily Wire reached out to her for comment.

01:35:50.640 She did not respond and she has since taken down the Facebook post that was up about Joseph.

01:35:57.740 Tomorrow, we welcome Bhatia Angersargan.

01:36:00.960 And do you remember that story about the defamation lawsuit against NBC over multiple hosts calling

01:36:07.620 this doctor the, quote, uterus collector?

01:36:10.740 Well, his lawyer is here with me and we'll go deep into what happened here.

01:36:15.940 We'll see you then.

01:36:18.280 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:36:20.580 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:36:27.740 No BS.

01:36:30.820 No BS.

01:36:35.700 No BS.

01:36:36.620 No BS.

01:36:47.380 No BS.

The Megyn Kelly Show - April 15, 2025

Media's False ＂Maryland Dad＂ Narrative and Left's Spin on Illegal Gang Members, with Steve Deace, Delano Squires, and Joseph Massey ｜ Ep. 1049

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