The Megyn Kelly Show - Media's Trump Obsession, and Amber Heard Blames Social Media, with Dave Rubin, Emily Jashinsky, and Eliana Johnson

00:00:00.520 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:12.140 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. It's a very busy Monday.

00:00:17.660 As the House committee investigation into the January 6th riot holds its second hearing,

00:00:23.660 I guess there's going to be eight. We thought there was going to be seven. There's going to

00:00:27.600 be eight. We're on number two. It got underway about an hour ago, delayed after Donald Trump's

00:00:32.920 former campaign manager, Bill Stepien, had to drop out at the last minute because

00:00:36.560 he's having a baby. His wife has reportedly gone into labor. This plus Amber Heard breaks her

00:00:43.740 relative silence. We listened to her a lot while she was on the stand. Now giving an interview to

00:00:51.420 NBC claiming that the verdict was unfair and that it was the result of biased social media

00:00:58.320 representation that sided with Johnny Depp. Chicken egg. You know what I'm saying?

00:01:04.380 We've got a major breakthrough on Capitol Hill today on guns. There actually is some significant

00:01:08.560 news there. We're covering all of that and much more today. First up, one of my favorites,

00:01:12.500 my pal Dave Rubin, host of The Rubin Report, is here.

00:01:15.980 Dave, great to see you again.

00:01:22.400 Megan, it's always good to talk to you. I like Megyn Kelly on a Monday. I feel that this is the

00:01:27.480 best Megyn Kelly, like fresh off the weekend. I heard a rumor that not too long ago you made my

00:01:33.000 husband's famous chicken and you're feeling good about life, I can tell, and we can go into the

00:01:38.140 issues of the day, clear minded. Thank you. I'm so glad I feel the same about Monday, Dave Rubin.

00:01:42.620 And the I don't know if you've been watching. I know you made a policy of not covering January 6th

00:01:47.840 hearing. Yeah, I felt feel differently. I want to see what they're doing. And I'm glad I'm covering

00:01:52.920 because I tell you the one that they did last week was an absolute misrepresentation of fact.

00:01:57.880 And just as a lawyer and a journalist, that to me is interesting. You know, like there shouldn't be a

00:02:02.020 need to manipulate the sound on the videos or to overlay to President Trump's sound about the

00:02:08.260 peaceful rally that took place beforehand on top of violent riot video as though he was saying

00:02:14.800 they were beautiful. They were full of love about the people who are smashing cops. That's not what

00:02:19.520 he did. And that's not what he said. And they've just been lying throughout it. So even though there's

00:02:23.720 no defense, it's kind of nice as a lawyer to be on the outside saying, well, I'm sure a good defense

00:02:28.880 lawyer would have said this, would have objected to that, would have said this is misleading. It's just

00:02:33.340 beneficial to the public. So I did watch and I watched this morning. And let me start with this.

00:02:39.480 I wondered what they were going to do with my old pal Chris Dyerwald of Fox News. They called him to

00:02:43.900 testify. And I know the diehard MAGA crowd does not like Chris because he wasn't a Trump fan. That was

00:02:50.900 pretty clear in his public statements. He wasn't a Trump fan even while I was at Fox. And I don't think

00:02:58.100 there's anything wrong with that. I think he's allowed to be anti-Trump. He's just not allowed to have

00:03:02.460 his work product reflect that. And I believe and have said this right from the beginning. I do not

00:03:08.600 believe he did allow that to affect his work product. I think the call in Arizona was from a

00:03:14.240 bunch of earnest, smart brokers with whom I've worked for years, for years. So I didn't, I was

00:03:22.940 kind of feeling uncomfortable watching him, you know, about watching him. Like I don't, what are they

00:03:27.580 going to do to him? And I hope he doesn't self aggrandize and do anything to make the shitstorm

00:03:32.620 that entered his life come back after Arizona. And he didn't. I thought he handled himself very

00:03:38.120 well. He stuck up for the Fox decision desk on that call. And he's right. They are the best in

00:03:43.120 the business. And he explained why they were able to call Arizona before anybody else was. And I

00:03:47.480 completely believed what he said. As I said at the time, you know, my, my other friend, Stephen Crowder

00:03:52.220 came on the show shortly after the election and he went to town on Chris and the decision desk on

00:03:56.860 Arizona. And I defended them then. And I've worked very closely with them, much closer than anybody

00:04:00.400 who's talking about this issue in media has. Anyway, I thought he did fine. I don't know that

00:04:06.500 it was necessary. I'm not exactly sure what he was doing there. Why are we relitigating Arizona and

00:04:11.740 Fox News's call, right? He didn't speak to any pressures that that Trump put on Fox or him.

00:04:17.560 So I'm not exactly sure why that was there right now. Today just seems to be an attempt to convince

00:04:22.740 the American people that Trump did, in fact, lose something. I also believe

00:04:27.220 is that worthwhile. And what do you what do you make of this sort of phase two? Because phase one

00:04:32.800 was like the riot was bad and Trump said incendiary things. And there are white supremacists who showed

00:04:37.900 up. This is more like he lost. Get over it. Right. So first, let me address something that you said

00:04:44.940 right up top, which is that I'm not covering this on my show and sort of the difference and why I

00:04:49.460 like that people watching this right now probably watch both of our shows or at least take in a

00:04:53.960 little bit. My feeling about this, generally speaking, was there are so many crazy things

00:04:58.880 happening in this country that, of course, you cover as well from inflation and supply chain and

00:05:03.920 Russia, Ukraine and everything else that I was just like, you know what? This to me is just a side

00:05:08.660 show right now. If some sort of bombshell was to appear, if there was some true smoking gun,

00:05:15.220 if there was a memo that Trump wrote that said we are going to get the National Guard out and,

00:05:20.720 you know, take out Pence or like some crazy stuff that we have not seen any of it a year and a half

00:05:25.620 later, of course, I would cover it. But my general feeling is like as someone that tries to translate

00:05:29.780 news to people, I wanted to keep it on the things that I think actually are affecting their lives

00:05:34.080 on a day to day basis. But that being said, I think it's great that you, especially as a former

00:05:38.240 lawyer and in this case specifically talking about what's going on right now, as someone that worked

00:05:42.700 at Fox and I remember about a year ago I was on your show and we were talking about this and you

00:05:47.540 were talking about the veracity of the Fox decision desk and how good they are. So I think it is worthy

00:05:54.820 of talking about, but everyone just has their own little angles on this. Look, as far as the goal of

00:06:01.860 this thing, to me, that's what if there's something we should talk about, that's what it should be.

00:06:06.400 Like, what is the actual purpose here? Is it to convince more people that Trump ginned up,

00:06:12.420 you know, this alt-right white supremacist army to take over the Capitol, even though they had no

00:06:18.540 weapons, there were no plans. It turns out that one guy had a Lego set of the Capitol or something

00:06:23.780 like that. That is not to defend people that broke windows or did things they shouldn't do. But as you

00:06:29.060 know, Megan, there's plenty of video of officers literally opening up doors for them, moving

00:06:34.240 barricades and letting them in. So there's a lot of confusion there. So one of the things that I,

00:06:38.880 you know, what I have seen in the little bites that I'm seeing on Twitter, it's like, you're right.

00:06:42.440 They are changing audio on things. They seemingly are selectively editing things or showing things

00:06:48.020 out of context or out of order. And the real question to me is who, who is this going to? So I,

00:06:55.080 look, we all live in our own little bubble in a way. I don't know anyone in my world that cares

00:07:00.460 about this. I really don't. I don't think people are focused on this. I think they realize there

00:07:05.600 are so many bigger problems and it's like, yes, I get it. It's make, it's making people that watch

00:07:10.740 MSNBC, you know, relive the experience or it's giving AOC a moment to pretend she was hiding again

00:07:16.740 or whatever. Um, but I don't know exactly what this does really for like the full of the country.

00:07:23.040 What, what is the resolution here? Like Trump's not going to, he's going to run for president

00:07:26.540 again. This is not going to get Trump. We're a year and a half off this thing. So what really

00:07:30.840 is the point I suppose would be my question back to you. Yeah. Well, it's clearly political. Uh,

00:07:36.900 they, they had a bite at this apple. Remember the second impeachment attempt? It was about January 6th.

00:07:42.060 It's like they failed and they were like, we have something really bad to tell you about Donald Trump.

00:07:46.640 Let's impeach him. We're going to tell you all the bad things. And the public was like,

00:07:50.520 eh, because their representatives did not vote to impeach. Well, he was got impeached,

00:07:54.620 but he didn't get convicted. That's how it works. And, um, and they're like, now they're like, no,

00:07:59.640 no, it's really, really bad. Listen to us again. Let's give us a second chance to convince you about

00:08:05.540 how bad it was. People already have formed their thoughts. You know, I mean, I've said to my audience

00:08:10.340 and my audience has a lot of Republicans in it, not all, but a lot. I don't believe Trump won this

00:08:16.180 election. I believe Trump lost this election. And I was very open-minded to all of the claims of

00:08:20.860 fraud. And I looked at them as a lawyer. It's not there. We can talk all day about how unfair the

00:08:27.220 process was to him. Yes. Agreed. The mail-ins, all of it, you know, all of the, the rules being

00:08:33.000 changed ostensibly because of the pandemic and lack of trust in those who are overseeing it, who

00:08:38.200 openly admitted they would do anything to get rid of him. I get all of that, but there's no proof.

00:08:43.540 And in this country, we need proof the same way you can't boot Brett Kavanaugh from his seat on

00:08:48.360 the Supreme Court because somebody from 30 years earlier comes forward saying he did something to

00:08:52.660 me. The reason he got that seat is because there was no proof. She had nothing. You cannot say that

00:09:00.620 a vote tally as in favor of Joe Biden, as this one was, is going to be thrown out based on supposition

00:09:08.020 and absence of proof. And I do think this committee is doing a good job today of showing

00:09:11.660 that Trump's inner team was there telling him, you don't have it from Bill Barr to his campaign

00:09:18.780 manager, who clearly wanted him to win, saying it ain't there. The claims are not there. It's

00:09:25.060 going to be a difficult night and difficult transition. But you've got to go out there and

00:09:29.620 say, at best, we're still counting and Trump wouldn't do it. And people you can your own

00:09:35.820 claims, not you, Dave, but like people's claims about how unfair the process was to Trump

00:09:39.680 are getting undermined by the refusal to let go of this unsupported claim that vote tallies were

00:09:46.380 changed on election night. I get you may have a supposition. You have no proof. So move on.

00:09:53.060 Focus on the things that are provable and knowable and we can actually improve before the next time,

00:09:57.800 as opposed to things like they stole Detroit, whereas that clip from Bill Barr this morning

00:10:01.580 pointed out. Trump did better in Detroit in 2020 than he did in 2020, 2016.

00:10:06.740 Well, you know, what's interesting is I know you've talked to Dinesh D'Souza as well, but I went to the

00:10:11.080 2000 Mules premiere and I thought your interview with him, by the way, was excellent because you

00:10:15.040 guys really dove into some of the skepticism about it and all that stuff. And I had him on a few days

00:10:19.760 later. So I tried to follow up a little bit of what you did there. And, you know, it's like there are

00:10:24.340 legitimate things to talk about. There really are like, you know, just in what he does in the movie,

00:10:29.080 which whether you like Trump or dislike Trump or whatever, I think the movie is worth watching

00:10:33.980 because you see that these ballot stuffers showing up at odd times at night and they don't look like

00:10:40.140 sort of the most upstanding citizens. A lot of them look like sort of transients, almost homeless

00:10:44.180 people. And they always are sort of hiding from the camera and they're doing it at 3 a.m.

00:10:48.760 You'd think that if you were picking up ballots from, say, an old age home, you know, six ballots

00:10:53.220 from people who couldn't get out, maybe you would do it at, I don't know, 1030 a.m., not at four in the

00:10:57.380 morning. You know, there's things that we can talk about. But you're right. If we get lost in,

00:11:01.980 oh, the tallies weren't right or everything else, then we're never going to get to anything more

00:11:06.700 secure in terms in terms of our our all of our our collective. I don't like the word collective,

00:11:11.720 but our collective ability to believe that elections are legitimate. But I would say in some weird way,

00:11:18.100 and I think a lot of people watching would agree with this, that, you know, we've watched the media

00:11:22.620 lie about so many things, whether it was Trump, very fine people on both sides or sort of Russia

00:11:27.060 collusion from the beginning or Brett Kavanaugh as a serial rapist, as you alluded to, or Jesse

00:11:32.380 Smollett was lynched or the litany of things that they've lied about. And we've seen such big lies

00:11:37.580 that have been blown apart in real time that this to me feels like another one of those things where

00:11:43.280 the media just really, really wants us to believe something. In this case, they really want us to

00:11:48.500 believe that Trump somehow sent those people there to overtake the Capitol, thus to overtake the

00:11:55.900 government of the United States. And that's that is just complete fantasy. Even if Trump was not

00:12:01.820 listening to his advisers, even if Trump did not believe that the election was legit, the idea that

00:12:07.900 this gang of people, this disorganized, discombobulated group of, you know, it was a lot of old grandmas and

00:12:14.700 people dressed up with paint on their face that they were going to overtake the government and

00:12:18.820 the military would fall to them and that we'd have an Egypt style coup. I mean, it's actually insane.

00:12:26.480 Right. And what was so why are they doing this? They want to ding him up politically.

00:12:30.140 And even I mean, I heard a discussion, I think it was Andy McCarthy, suggesting on his podcast that

00:12:36.360 that he thinks they may be trying to push toward a criminal indictment of Trump on all of this.

00:12:43.560 So the impeachment thing didn't go through and they want a criminal. They can't stand this guy.

00:12:48.940 It's like, move on. Trump behaved very badly after he lost the last election. This is my position.

00:12:55.460 He did lose. He behaved terribly. He did not actually cause what happened on January 6th,

00:13:00.620 though he certainly was very encouraging of the belief many of those people held that he was the

00:13:06.840 election was being stolen from him. And he may or may not pay the price politically. Right. I mean,

00:13:12.540 we've already been through that. But to take up all this congressional hearing time to for all the

00:13:16.920 networks to give this one sided presentation, you know, fawning coverage is too much for me.

00:13:24.560 Like we heard this story. We watched this movie the first time and the American people weren't

00:13:29.960 persuaded. So, like I said before, here we are back having a second bite at the apple. They're not

00:13:35.320 going to be any more persuaded. The diehard MAGA people who think this is swollen, swollen, stolen.

00:13:40.400 They're not going to go out there and say, you know what? I'm convinced Chris Direwalt. He got

00:13:45.880 me there. It's not happening. So what's this about? Right. It's about improving their political

00:13:51.980 chances and the midterm elections and beyond. You know, that's super interesting. It's like

00:13:56.580 if we really dialed this down to just the psychology of the people that are paying attention, what is the

00:14:02.220 percentage? Like what is the amount of people who might move because of this thing? And I bet you,

00:14:07.280 I think this is basically what you're saying. I bet you it's pretty much nobody. There is virtually

00:14:12.500 nobody that is watching this or ignoring it that because of what is going to transpire during this

00:14:18.940 thing is going to be like, well, that was the moment I was waiting for. And now I believe the

00:14:23.360 opposite thing. And that tells you that this is just sort of the show must go on, you know,

00:14:28.920 and that's where we're at with this. Yeah. And now you've got the media and Democrats,

00:14:33.180 but I repeat myself touting the ratings from that Thursday night hearing. They got like

00:14:38.220 19 million people tuning in. My God. I thought Trump was the guy who touts the ratings.

00:14:43.180 But can I it's because every network covered it. Like, of course, you're going to get good ratings

00:14:48.400 when ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC and even Fox Business go wall to wall with something. Surprise

00:14:56.000 when there's nothing else on all the major stations. People tend to tune in. They're basically

00:15:01.780 hostages to their televisions. Megan, did you see that great compilation that somebody put on

00:15:07.400 Twitter? It was all of the mainstream media boxes covering the exact same thing. And in the middle,

00:15:12.420 they put Tucker because Fox News did not cover it. And their argument, the person who put it

00:15:17.160 together, their argument was, oh, see, Fox is ignoring it because Fox is evil. But look at all

00:15:23.060 of these good guys covering it. And it's like basic human psychology. What do you teach your kids,

00:15:28.780 Megan? Do you teach them to be like everybody else or be a lemming? I'm exactly. So they're

00:15:35.380 trying to prove, oh, see, Fox is doing something different. They're anti-democracy. They're the bad

00:15:41.060 guys. They're different. They're mean. And it's like, regardless of what you think of this, just

00:15:45.640 because everyone's doing something, I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean you're supposed to do it.

00:15:49.620 I'm not a parent yet, but I think that's one of the things you're supposed to teach your kids,

00:15:52.420 right? Mm hmm. Yeah. They of course, they just tried to shame Fox into covering it. Fox did cover

00:15:57.240 it over on the business channel with Martha and Brett. And that's fine. You know, their primetime

00:16:02.740 lineup wound up losing to MSNBC, which got four million, which is on. I mean, like they MSNBC

00:16:08.660 would never get four million on a normal night. They only got it because their viewers wanted to

00:16:12.280 watch this. Fox got three million, which is pretty standard for it. And MSNBC, I mean, and CNN,

00:16:17.360 I think got two million, which is huge for CNN these days. So they still beat one of their main

00:16:22.840 competitors by not covering this. And I think it was the right move, because why should everyone

00:16:27.840 be forced to watch this, which is essentially propaganda show? Again, there's no defense

00:16:33.920 lawyer. There's no defense case. Yes, there are a couple of Republicans on this panel, but they're

00:16:39.080 all Trump haters. So that's the relevant metric. You know, can you find a non Trump hater to get up

00:16:45.360 there? They kick Jim Jordan off the panel so he wasn't good enough. On and on it goes. Everyone knows

00:16:50.600 that this is essentially a show trial. It is because there's there's only one result they're

00:16:55.180 driving toward and there's no representation of the other side. People know it. So anyway,

00:17:00.100 it's just a turn off. I do want to play this one soundbite, which I thought was kind of funny and

00:17:03.480 kind of interesting. And it's about drunk Rudy Giuliani showing up at the White House on election

00:17:09.800 night. Dave, you can't make the stuff up. This is soundbite for was there anyone in that conversation

00:17:14.840 who, in your observation, had had had too much to drink, like Mayor Giuliani. And the mayor was

00:17:22.880 definitely intoxicated, but I do not know that his level of talk intoxication when he spoke

00:17:29.540 with the president, for example. Are you part of any discussions with the people I mentioned,

00:17:37.220 Mr. Steffi and Mr. Meadows or anyone else about whether the president should make any sort of speech

00:17:42.920 on election night? I mean, I spoke to the president. They may have been president, but

00:17:50.340 president spoke to the president several times that night. My memory. And I was saying that we

00:17:56.240 should not go and declare victory until we had a better sense of the numbers. I think effectively,

00:18:01.840 Mayor Giuliani was saying we want it. They're stealing it from us. Where'd all the votes come from?

00:18:07.700 We need to go say that we won. And essentially that anyone who didn't agree with that position

00:18:16.720 was being weak. What was your view at the time as to what he should or shouldn't say?

00:18:21.480 I don't know that I had a firm view as to what he should say in that circumstance. The results were

00:18:29.260 still being counted. It was becoming clear that the race would not be called on election night.

00:18:39.440 My belief, my recommendation was to say that votes were still being counted. It's too early to tell,

00:18:51.700 um, too early to call the race, but, um, you know, we, uh, proud of the race. We, we run, we ran.

00:19:01.280 And did anybody who was a part of that conversation disagree with your message?

00:19:06.360 Yes. Who is that?

00:19:08.620 The president disagreed with that. I don't recall the particular words. He thought I was wrong.

00:19:14.020 He told me so. And, uh, you know, that they were going to, you know, going in a, you know,

00:19:20.800 he was going to go in a different direction.

00:19:24.660 Wait, stand by Dave, hold your thoughts. Cause there's a follow-up to that

00:19:27.540 bill stepping in the campaign manager versus Trump. This is the campaign manager testifying

00:19:32.260 to what he said to Donald Trump. It's interesting on the night of the election

00:19:35.100 about what the message should be versus what Trump said. Watch soundbite three.

00:19:40.860 The early returns are going to be, you know, positive. I always told the president the truth

00:19:47.620 and, uh, you know, I, I, you know, I think he expected that from me and, uh, I told him

00:19:53.180 it was going to be a process. It was going to be, um, you know, um, you know, uh, we're

00:20:00.160 going to have to wait and see how this turned out.

00:20:02.020 When we're all voting to stop, we don't want them to find any ballots at four o'clock in the

00:20:09.240 morning and add them to the list. And then they went on to play the soundbite

00:20:14.120 from Trump a couple of days later saying we won, we won it. This is fraud. He went a different way.

00:20:21.600 He went with Giuliani and not with Stepien.

00:20:24.980 First off, I do not want to blame Rudy Giuliani for maybe being drunk for any of that. Because

00:20:30.240 while I was watching, I actually poured a whole bunch of tequila in my coffee mug. It's the only way,

00:20:34.840 it's the only way you can get through this insanity. The best of us are right. Everyone

00:20:40.600 watching it should be drunk. That's number one. Uh, number two though, you know, nothing in those

00:20:45.200 little soundbites, it, none of it is proof of anything other than on an election night,

00:20:50.260 somebody wants to win and other people are a little more measured in their responses. Jason

00:20:54.680 Miller. He's like, well, I wanted to wait to count the votes. Ivanka. I didn't really have an opinion

00:20:59.320 on it because the election wasn't done. Nobody, even if Trump had called Ivanka or Jason Miller or

00:21:04.940 somebody and said, I really want to win and we're not going to announce anything. And I'm like,

00:21:08.900 well, that's not, that's not proof of a grand conspiracy to take over the government of the

00:21:13.820 United States. If there was a phone call made to a general saying we are taking the military is

00:21:18.880 taking over the apparatus of the United States and we're going to the Capitol, then you've got some

00:21:23.920 sort of conspiracy or something, but you're right. This is just, it's just a show. It's not a trial

00:21:29.200 in essence. It's a one-sided show. It's a political head job. But again, this goes to why I keep

00:21:35.400 thinking this is going to be a red pill moment for a certain set of people. While I don't think a lot

00:21:40.400 of people will watch and change their mind. As I said earlier, I think enough people at the end,

00:21:46.400 when nothing comes out of this, they're going to be like, Oh, another thing that the government did

00:21:50.400 that nothing came out of it. Like impeachment, number one, like impeachment, number two,

00:21:54.820 why didn't they look into Hunter Biden's laptop and everything else? So maybe that's the silver

00:21:59.540 lining here that the more the government does these sort of nonsensical things that are, are

00:22:04.320 wastes of our tax dollar waste of our attention. Uh, when there's so many other things that they

00:22:08.920 could be doing, maybe that is a good wake up call to the average person to, to realize that it

00:22:13.520 doesn't deserve the government doesn't deserve so much of our resources, attention or scale back.

00:22:19.240 You know, they seem to me to be trying to prove that Trump knew that's what they said they were

00:22:26.420 going to prove with these testimonials. That's what they think they're proving. Trump knew he lost

00:22:31.920 and knowingly misled the American people when an, an equally plausible, in fact, more plausible

00:22:38.680 explanation is that Trump is Trump. He doesn't think the way most people think he doesn't see victory

00:22:45.780 and defeat the same way most people do. And he had convinced himself that it was impossible for him

00:22:52.840 to lose this thing. He felt the system had been rigged against him going into it. And it had said

00:22:57.560 that prior, even to the November vote. And when things started to go South that night, he believed

00:23:02.960 what he wanted to believe. You know, it's like, we all do it, right? It's like, rather than sort of

00:23:07.800 readjusting to the actual reality, smacking you in the face. Sometimes we default to our old ways of

00:23:12.980 thinking because it feels better. And I just don't think Trump, you know, the biggest insult you could

00:23:17.560 ever call somebody to Trump is a loser. That's his, it's the last thing he'd want to be. And I do

00:23:22.880 think it's the only reason why he might not run this time because he doesn't, he definitely doesn't

00:23:27.720 want to lose, you know, again. Um, but anyway, do you think this, do you think this helps or hurts

00:23:33.380 him? If he's going to, I don't think it hurts him. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I don't think it hurts

00:23:38.620 him at all. And I think, I think once nothing comes of this, he's going to feel energized again

00:23:43.620 and enough people are going to be like, Oh, they tried it again to him. And then they're going to

00:23:47.280 look around and they're going to see what's going on with gas and inflation and everything else.

00:23:51.100 And they're going to be like, Oh, that guy who was president for four years when things were pretty

00:23:54.900 good. Why do they keep trying to destroy him? Eh, maybe I'll jump in on, on what he's doing this

00:23:59.640 time. So they better be careful what they ask for. Yeah. That's what Jane and Joe are going to be

00:24:03.900 thinking. Like, all I know is my life was better than, than it is now. And if he's delusional or

00:24:08.600 right or wrong about his election claims, that's for somebody else to worry about. You know, like

00:24:13.840 I, what I want is my, my gas prices to go down, my grocery bill to go down. I would like us not to

00:24:19.600 unnecessarily start foreign conflicts with loose lips and weak policy, you know, like things like

00:24:25.820 that. This is all one big political hit job that we've already been through. We already, we already

00:24:30.700 went through it. So anyway, um, I don't think they're proving what they think they're proving.

00:24:34.100 I don't think they're proving Trump quote new, and I don't think people are paying attention and

00:24:37.820 they're not going to get 19 million on at 10 AM on a Monday when it's not being force fed to people

00:24:42.800 who are home from work the way they were on Thursday night. And people are going to peter off

00:24:47.340 and they're going to go back and live their summer lives. I mean, I'm going on vacation later this week.

00:24:50.740 I don't know who's going to sit around and watch hearings. Three, four, five, six, seven. This isn't

00:24:57.000 like no one wants to cover this and no one wants to watch this except you're going on vacation in

00:25:03.580 the middle of this thing. You dare go with your husband and your kids to enjoy life. I'm guessing

00:25:08.500 to the beach somewhere and you're going to just take in the sun and eat good food and relax and

00:25:13.300 play on the beach instead of paying attention to it. What, what kind of American are you?

00:25:18.080 It's funny, Dave, because when I was, when I was looking at the calendar about like, can I go on

00:25:21.040 vacation during this time in June? I'm like, well, we got Supreme court and that actually does matter.

00:25:25.280 Like the separate, the opinions that are coming down. What if Dobbs comes down while I'm gone

00:25:28.420 that I care about this. That's my opinion on this. Somebody else can sit at the microphone and do

00:25:34.460 that. That's how it's going to go. I can do that. I can do that. You do it for me. You can sit in

00:25:40.300 for me if that, if this gets exciting and just give them my, my wrap up. All right. Stand by because

00:25:45.140 there's so much more to go over, including Putin's price hike. It's Putin's just in case you didn't

00:25:50.740 know the white house quadrupling down on that in the wake of the disastrous new

00:25:54.920 inflation numbers. And we'll get to that and much more with Dave.

00:26:04.120 My guest today is Dave Rubin of the Rubin Report, who we have on, whether it's pride month or not,

00:26:11.100 Dave Rubin. There's a lot of pride, pride, pride, pride, pride, pride, pride, pride. And it's funny

00:26:18.860 to me because, I mean, I feel like I feel shame. You tell me because I feel like the gays and the

00:26:25.220 lesbians were good. You know, we're there. So is it just pride month for the trans people?

00:26:31.800 And what does it mean? And why is it everywhere? Your thoughts?

00:26:36.960 Oh, it's so unbearable. Look, as well, you certainly know because you've been to my house

00:26:43.840 for dinner with my husband. Yes, I am gay. I've been married to my husband for like eight years.

00:26:48.820 We've been together for 13 years. It's the least interesting thing about me. I end up having to

00:26:53.020 talk about it occasionally because of cultural stuff like this. But the fight for equality was

00:26:58.960 a just fight. The fight for marriage was a just fight. The fight for the ability to say,

00:27:03.100 go to a bar and not be arrested, which is what used to happen. That's what Stonewall was all

00:27:06.820 about. Those things were a just fight. And then once you get equality, the activists should go

00:27:11.980 home and they should find something better to do. But as Chris Rock said in a standup special about

00:27:16.480 20 years ago, the cops need a certain amount of crime and the activist class needs a certain amount

00:27:21.660 of perceived victimhood. There's no one coming after you if you're gay or lesbian. Actually,

00:27:27.040 you're probably getting a job easier or promoted easier than your straight counterpart.

00:27:32.000 The T thing, the trans thing, which is very different. I mean, I, as a gay man, Megan,

00:27:37.540 have no more insight into the trans psychology than you as a straight woman. This thing has gone

00:27:44.960 completely off the rails. The fact that, you know, even Fox just a couple of days ago ran this piece

00:27:50.140 about a five-year-old transitioning. And before the boy could even speak, he was already saying that

00:27:55.400 he's a girl, which doesn't even make sense that you're saying something before you can speak.

00:27:59.080 Um, look, the fact that this thing is a month and it's all corporate and, you know, Burger King,

00:28:05.760 as you saw, Burger King is putting out buns with two bottoms. It's so, it's so ridiculous. It's so

00:28:10.840 many levels. It's a little early in the day to be talking about any of this. So we'll, yeah, I mean,

00:28:14.600 it's just, you see, and this is the problem time to be proud. And what they're saying there,

00:28:19.080 it's a sexual connotation, obviously, but what are you proud? You know, pride is not just,

00:28:24.000 oh, I happen to be straight or I happen to be gay. That's nothing to be proud of. Pride is,

00:28:30.000 oh, I work hard. I'm proud of the work that I've done. Pride is I'm a good husband. I'm a good wife.

00:28:36.020 Pride is I'm a good family member or community leader. Pride is something earned, not something

00:28:41.300 that should be just celebrated by, by an extension of what they would say is an immutable characteristic.

00:28:47.460 So the whole thing is sort of corporate nonsense. And I, and I fear something which is that there's

00:28:54.120 going to be a backlash. I can, you can feel it already amongst regular decent people who have

00:28:59.740 fully moved on from the gay marriage thing and don't think about gay people. And Megan,

00:29:03.760 you were with me in West Nyack on my tour. I mean, my audience is 95% conservative at this point.

00:29:09.640 They have no problem with me being gay, right? Like you, you were there, you saw it.

00:29:14.040 Um, but that I could sense, I could see a certain set of people being like, man, they are never

00:29:19.520 going to stop jamming this stuff down our throat, no pun intended and getting sick of it. And,

00:29:25.000 and I think that's where we are with this nonsense. It's really unfortunate. And by the way,

00:29:30.140 that's why Douglas Murray, uh, who's a brilliant conservative author, as you know, uh, that's why

00:29:34.660 he, in his, uh, form, not his last book, his previous book, uh, madness of crowds, when he wrote

00:29:40.440 about LGB, that was one chapter. And then he separated his chapter on tea because he said,

00:29:46.680 these things have nothing to do with each other. And this, this letter cornucopia is conflating

00:29:52.860 issues that should not be conflated. Yeah. In the same way that like BLM is trying to like co-opt

00:30:00.440 Hispanics and Asians and anybody who might identify as minority or non-white. And these groups are saying,

00:30:08.000 no, we're not Marxist. We're pro family. We're not joining you. We have different missions.

00:30:14.060 Um, it feels like the T is trying to co-op the LGB because LGB folks have attained equality in this

00:30:22.280 country. They're good. There is, I mean, I'm sure there's exceptions to all of this, but like the,

00:30:26.280 the vast, vast majority, which is always the goal in a diverse country of employers are not,

00:30:30.900 not hiring you because you're gay or lesbian or bi, something people won't even ask and couldn't care

00:30:36.860 less about. Uh, the trans thing is now it's no longer lawful not to hire somebody for that,

00:30:42.080 but the trans community has an entirely different set of issues and agendas than the LGB community

00:30:49.100 does. This is what Andrew Sullivan's been writing about, you know, and that he actually feels that

00:30:52.900 the T movement, not T people, but the movement with its crazy representatives are anti-gay. You know,

00:31:00.500 they, all these little boys who may be showing signs of being more effeminate or whatever are

00:31:06.320 being told their little, their little girls. Whereas if you just left them alone, they'd be

00:31:11.920 totally fine. They would have no gender confusion and most of them would wind up being gay.

00:31:17.560 You know, what's so interesting about this too. So first off, I do agree with that. We discussed

00:31:21.100 it once. It's like, I grew up, I was playing with GI Joes and transformers. So I was stereotypically a

00:31:26.580 boy. Now I happen to turn out to be a gay man. Uh, but if, uh, if I had played with Barbie and,

00:31:31.700 and, uh, my little pony or something, I suppose that if this was 2022, they were my little ponies

00:31:39.300 questionable. Let's say paper dolls, paper dolls. Okay, fine. Or if I was having tea parties,

00:31:44.440 then they would be like, Oh boy, we better give this, you know, some, uh, puberty blockers and

00:31:49.160 everything else. Somebody made a point on Twitter. It was a random account, but I thought it was really

00:31:52.600 brilliant. What they said. I saw this a couple of days ago. It's like, man, if you think all of this

00:31:56.140 stuff can be solved by just adjusting testosterone and puberty blockers and all of these things,

00:32:00.900 it's like, well, if you had a little boy who was effeminate, how about we just give him more

00:32:04.240 testosterone? I don't know the full science behind that, but if instead of saying, Oh,

00:32:08.140 let's transition you to the other gender, which is a pretty big lift. How about maybe we just give

00:32:14.120 you a little more testosterone? I don't know the full science, but the idea of it is sort of

00:32:18.780 interesting, right? It is. I was just showing this morning. Um, there was a picture of me. It's

00:32:24.340 actually my very favorite picture of myself. Um, and I was maybe five or six and I was on a tire

00:32:31.080 swing with my Levi's jeans and my Navy zip up hoodie sweatshirt. And I have my hair cut like a

00:32:37.560 boy. Cause my big sister got her hair cut like a boy and I wanted it to, I didn't want to look like

00:32:41.800 a boy. I just wanted the short hair. We thought it was the Dorothy Hamill. It wasn't. Um, and I look

00:32:48.020 a hundred percent like full tomboy and we'll, we'll lay it in on the YouTube video later so people can see

00:32:52.500 it. Um, and 100% they'd be looking at that version of Megan Kelly in today's day and age saying she's

00:32:58.220 actually a boy. She's a boy. She won't play with dolls, paper dolls or Barbies. She doesn't want

00:33:03.040 to wear a dress. She only wants to play on the boys baseball team. You know, she loves stretch

00:33:07.400 Armstrong. She loves the incredible Hulk. We can't get her to watch any girly stuff. She wasn't,

00:33:12.120 won't take dance lessons. And seriously, there'd be a real conversation about whether this girl is

00:33:16.360 actually a girl and I was all girl and I remain all woman. And it like this knee jerk. Oh, she

00:33:23.800 thinks she's something else at age five or what have, what have you is legitimately dangerous.

00:33:29.100 Megan, real quick. Can I just jump back to the starting point here about the month,

00:33:32.240 the pride month, you know, because the thing about LGBT pride or something like that,

00:33:37.120 as I said, pride is something to be earned. So what, what is actually bringing these people

00:33:41.280 together? Okay. Your sexuality or your sexual identity is different, is different than say

00:33:47.320 that what the norm is. Okay. So that's, that's something, but that's not really something to

00:33:51.440 build a community around, right? A community should be built around shared values. A community

00:33:55.800 should be built around education, education, or an ethnic background or a belief system,

00:34:01.160 something like that. Just saying, Oh, I'm the other sexuality or the other sexual identity. And that's

00:34:06.820 what brings us all together. That sort of explains to you why this thing is devolving as crazily as

00:34:12.560 it is, because that's not a, a, a, something that you can put in a bucket and say, Oh, this is solid.

00:34:18.000 This is something that we can build out of. It's just something that's sort of, okay, it is what it

00:34:22.680 is. You like to sleep with dudes and you're a dude and you like to sleep with chicks and you're a

00:34:26.240 chick, but how long can that last over time? And I think in some ways this, this might sound a

00:34:31.620 little bizarre, but I think this is sort of a real world version of it. It's why gay communities,

00:34:35.340 like if you went to Chelsea in say the eighties, it was a thriving gay community, but it can only

00:34:40.440 work for sort of one generation because then it just kind of runs out of steam. And especially if

00:34:45.420 these people aren't having kids and building families and everything else, it doesn't work

00:34:49.120 over time. And then the gays kind of move somewhere else. So in New York city, they've moved to hell's

00:34:53.740 kitchen. It's just sort of this amorphous thing. And that's why I don't care. I have friends. I have

00:34:59.040 some friends that are gay. I have some friends that are straight, but it's sort of absolutely

00:35:02.440 irrelevant. It's like, I like people based on their thoughts and their interests, not on, Oh,

00:35:06.900 you check off this box on your sexual bingo card. Not that there's any shame at all around being

00:35:12.660 lesbian, gay or what have you, but like as a straight person, I don't, I don't want people

00:35:17.240 spending any time at all thinking about what I like in the sack. You know, I, I don't want anybody

00:35:22.420 looking at me and just even having that moment of like, Oh, this is how she likes to do it.

00:35:26.440 Like what, why are we drawing extra attention to that? Right? Like you do realize everyone

00:35:31.780 listening to this now is thinking that because you just said it, that's what everyone's thinking.

00:35:36.560 We don't even have to do a show for the rest of this. We could just stop right here and people

00:35:39.540 are just going to be picturing that. If you must know, go back and listen to my interview with

00:35:43.440 Jason Whitlock, uh, in which he actually got me to speak about that. Okay. So just going to leave

00:35:48.580 it at that Dave. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I don't want it celebrated for a month long period. And I think a lot

00:35:55.020 of, you know, my gay and lesbian friends are like, what? I'd be embarrassed to be like,

00:35:58.500 happy pride month. Shut up. Right? Like, but meanwhile, there, there, there are crazy things

00:36:05.120 happening along these lines. You talk about it's corporate. It's also a chance for like far leftist

00:36:09.460 to push their weird agenda on people like the New York city public schools, which spent New York city

00:36:14.580 spent $200,000 on drag queen story hour for kids as young as three to celebrate pride month. According to

00:36:24.440 the New York post, they did some events at libraries and festivals as well, but going into schools for

00:36:30.240 children as young as three to celebrate the drag queen, which I don't even know if they're a tea.

00:36:35.540 I don't even know what we're called. Like they're not necessarily a tea. You're not necessarily

00:36:39.260 transgender just because you're a drag queen. No. Well, technically no drag. I think the whole

00:36:44.100 purpose of a drag queen, RuPaul is a man who dresses up as an over the top woman. By the way,

00:36:50.960 a little funny story about RuPaul during the Trump Hillary Clinton election. I had moved to the

00:36:55.040 Valley in LA, but I had my old department was in West Hollywood, which is, you know,

00:36:58.620 it's the gayest place on earth. They got rainbow crosswalks and everything. So I had to go vote

00:37:02.180 in West Hollywood and I was standing online to vote. And I didn't know who I was going to vote

00:37:07.080 for Trump or Hillary. I swear to God, as I was going into the booth, I'm standing online behind

00:37:11.580 RuPaul, although it was man RuPaul. I thought I'm never going to forget this.

00:37:15.980 Oh, so wait, did you? And then I ended up voting for Gary Johnson. So there you go.

00:37:20.120 Did you recognize RuPaul as, you know, without the drag? You did.

00:37:24.500 Yeah, we are because he's I don't I've I've literally never watched the drag show,

00:37:28.040 but he's very tall and like bizarrely thin. And yeah, I did recognize him.

00:37:33.920 Did you talk at all about the election? Who did RuPaul vote for?

00:37:37.960 I'm guessing not Trump, but in retrospect, perhaps he and she should have.

00:37:42.400 Who knows? Yeah, exactly. You can't make any predictions. All right. So let's shift gears

00:37:47.740 massively and talk about Putin's price hike, because I don't know about you, but I'm really

00:37:51.780 mad at Vladimir Putin over this price hike that he's forced on us. Weirdly, he managed to institute

00:37:56.360 it months before he started the the war in Ukraine. The fact that Joe Biden is like quadrupling down on

00:38:04.180 this. Here's just a little bit of the latest. This is just on Friday. Sound by 11 is amazing.

00:38:09.820 But we've never seen anything like Putin's tax on both food and gas. Putin's price hike is hitting

00:38:16.960 America hard. Gas prices at the pump. Energy and food prices account for half of the monthly price

00:38:23.800 increases since May. I'm doing everything in my power to blunt Putin's price hike and bring down

00:38:29.200 the cost of gas and food. Who is going to believe that? Megan, I like this thing where you can just

00:38:37.880 blame Putin for everything. Like I stubbed my toe on the way into the studio. Blame Putin.

00:38:42.380 My hair is a little flatter today than usual. Blame Putin. I saw Downton Abbey 2 this weekend.

00:38:47.060 Didn't love it. I blame Putin. It's so it's so ridiculous because even even if there's some

00:38:53.940 degree of truth in it, meaning that because Russia controls a lot of oil and natural resources and a

00:38:58.980 war can change the the economics of the world. Let's say that's roughly true to some degree.

00:39:04.500 It obviously is right when there's a war somewhere, especially involving a big oil producing country.

00:39:09.040 It can affect things. If that's roughly true, Biden's Biden shouldn't be saying that's the

00:39:14.760 problem. Biden should be saying here are the things that we are doing to counter what he has done.

00:39:20.500 And actually, virtually everything that Biden has done over the course of this this long year and a

00:39:27.760 have presidency has in effect been to make inflation worse and gas prices higher and not drill and

00:39:35.900 exacerbate the war and give 40 billion dollars more to Ukraine and not declare war. But we're in a war

00:39:42.560 and the rest of it. So if you are a good president, it is irrelevant, actually, what the other guy is

00:39:48.940 doing. You would be setting policies to counteract what he's doing. But instead, all he's got is this is

00:39:54.540 Putin's fault. It's so empty. Right. It reassures no one, even if you give him, OK, the past couple

00:40:01.920 of months, some percentage point inside that eight point six is Putin. Right. Like the the prices and

00:40:09.760 gas and so on. Right. Sure. There's there's some level of reality to something. OK, just over the

00:40:15.040 past couple of months, though, it doesn't touch anything before the invasion of Ukraine. But even

00:40:19.320 if you were to give him that, you know, the people sitting at home understand full well that the vast

00:40:23.860 majority of that eight point six is on Biden, you know, some and you could farm out some of it to to

00:40:28.440 covid supply chain that got screwed up. I think people would be generous in saying we get that. It's not

00:40:33.860 100 percent on him. That five million that was pumped in the trillion that was pumped into. I wish

00:40:40.760 million five trillion that was pumped into the economy by Biden, a little bit from Trump. Trump's was mid

00:40:46.020 pandemic. Worst of the worst. Biden wanted more. He wanted an extra three trillion on top of that

00:40:50.820 for other other spending wishes of his that but wasn't able to get it. That's on him. That is 100

00:40:57.400 percent on him. The message that he was going to kill coal and kill oil coming in, discouraging these

00:41:03.700 guys from actually getting aggressive about continuing our energy independence. That's on him.

00:41:08.760 And his unwillingness to open it up now is on him. Right. He is as sort of strong as his rhetoric is

00:41:16.200 about like there are nine thousand leases. And why aren't they taking them? There are nine thousand

00:41:21.040 leases. Right. That's all on him. They're not taking them for a variety of reasons, most of which

00:41:25.560 originate with you. So people know it, Dave. You know, it's like so frustrating to hear him not.

00:41:30.080 The bottom line is he has no plan. Right. Look, at the end of the day, the buck has to stop with

00:41:36.180 someone. And I think when we vote for people, the hope is that the president is the guy that

00:41:40.560 the buck stops with. So even if I mean, we're both being pretty generous here. We're both

00:41:44.700 acknowledging that there is some stuff out of his control. Right. So the president doesn't control

00:41:49.620 everything, thankfully. And but that doesn't mean there's nothing he can do. So if in effect,

00:41:55.420 he has done all of the wrong things, you just laid out a whole bunch of them. I mean, they stopped

00:41:59.040 Keystone XL. They refuse to drill. They've printed all of this money, et cetera, et cetera. It's like,

00:42:03.840 no, this really isn't just because of Putin. And then, by the way, in that same press conference

00:42:08.680 from the one that you guys just played, he went on to go to talk about Exxon's record

00:42:13.420 profits. And it's like, all right, we can have some discussion, perhaps, about what oil companies

00:42:19.500 could be doing in times of war or whatever this is related to their profits. But their record

00:42:24.720 profits have very little to do with what they're doing, actually, and everything to do with the

00:42:30.160 conditions that Biden is either creating or being or allowing to be created.

00:42:35.600 He's he's floundering. He doesn't have a plan. It's very clear. He's trying to distance himself

00:42:42.220 from the Fed because the Fed's raising interest rates, which actually may affect the inflationary

00:42:46.060 rate. And he doesn't want the political ahead of that. But it really is part of the solution.

00:42:50.140 And nobody is backing him. He has no constituency. You know, he really doesn't. He doesn't have like

00:42:58.900 the crazies who back the squad or like the diehard Bernie fans. There's no diehard Biden fan.

00:43:07.100 And speaking of those two worlds, I think that's why, in part, AOC, when asked by Dana Bash of CNN this

00:43:13.760 weekend, whether she's going to endorse Biden for president for his reelection, said the following.

00:43:20.980 Listen to soundbite 13. Hate to run AOC bites. But you got to hear this one.

00:43:25.480 You know, if the president chooses to run again in 2024, I mean, first of all, I'm focused on winning

00:43:31.780 this majority right now and preserving a majority this year in 2022. So we'll cross that bridge when

00:43:37.780 we get to it. But but I think if if the president has a vision and that's something certainly we're all

00:43:42.820 willing to entertain and examine when the when the time comes. That's not a yes.

00:43:50.460 Yeah. You know, I think we should endorse when we get to it. But I I believe that the president

00:43:55.720 has been doing a very good job so far. And, you know, should he run again? I think that I you know,

00:44:02.200 I think it's it's we'll take a look at it right now. We need to focus on winning a majority instead

00:44:07.920 of a presidential election. So, no. Megan, you remember when Bill O'Reilly, when he was on Fox,

00:44:15.460 used to bring on the body language expert every week. It's like, man, she said a lot with that body

00:44:20.880 language when she laughed. She was nodding her head. No, as she was saying something affirmative,

00:44:26.300 you know, the the lean ins to the camera, all of that stuff. But what's interesting about this.

00:44:30.880 Oh, wait, can I say I can add to that one of the other signs of deception? And she does it there

00:44:34.680 at the end for the listening audience. She she raises her hands and they're sort of motioning

00:44:38.700 around her shoulders. Hands above the midline when coupled with other signs is another indicator

00:44:44.080 of deception. Oh, I love that. That's that's like that line in Seinfeld. Remember, Jerry's telling

00:44:50.200 George the higher when you're lying, the higher up on your face that you touch, the bigger the lie.

00:44:54.880 So if you touch your nose, it's kind of like an average lie. But if you scratch the top of your head,

00:44:58.260 it's a big lie. Scratching and touching in general are also indicators. But hands above the midline

00:45:03.440 in general is you're lying. But it has to be coupled with a few other signs. Anyway, she's lying.

00:45:08.720 She doesn't want to endorse Biden, but neither does anybody in her party.

00:45:13.000 Yeah, you're right. He has no constituency. This was a Frankenstein monster when they decided to give

00:45:18.300 him the nomination, which is what they decided, you know, right before Super Tuesday, they cut all the

00:45:22.100 deals. Everyone dropped out. They gave it to Biden. There was no real support there, but it was just

00:45:27.220 this anti-Trump thing. And let's make it so it's not he's not one of the crazy socialists.

00:45:31.780 It's he's just the average old Joe who's been around for 47 years and it'll kind of remind us

00:45:37.100 of Obama or something like that. But there's no support for him. And also what I think now has

00:45:42.180 happened, which is going to be much scarier, is that AOC knows that regardless of whether Biden

00:45:48.620 steps down or loses reelection or whatever, whatever there's no chance in hell. I mean,

00:45:54.640 there is simply no chance in hell that Biden's running for reelection. I don't know that he'll be

00:45:58.440 even functional at that point. But they will get rid of him one way or another. And what comes behind

00:46:05.300 him in the Democrat Party, unfortunately, is something much worse. That's what we really

00:46:09.600 should be thinking about now. There's basically going to be one party, the Republicans, that'll

00:46:14.240 be some semblance of America's pretty decent. Capitalism's all right. And then they'll be bad

00:46:20.380 at executing those things because they're not very good at stuff. And then there's going to be

00:46:24.260 one rabidly far left anti-American party. And that's the thing that AOC wants to usher in.

00:46:29.660 That's why she's laughing, because she knows that that Biden was just Biden was just like the

00:46:34.920 temporary firewall until they get exactly what they want. Well, they have no DeSantis. You know,

00:46:41.080 forget Trump. He's got all sorts of positives and minuses associated with him. But they don't have

00:46:46.640 a rising star in their party who's beloved by the vast majority of the party. And so there's no

00:46:52.260 clear air apparent. And on that note, before I let you go, I want to tell the audience you just

00:46:56.020 had a great interview with him. I love it. You moved to Florida. Now you get all these DeSantis

00:46:59.680 exclusives. It's amazing. Do I have to move to Florida to interview him? I don't because I'm it's

00:47:03.440 hot. I was an enemy of the state in California. And now I'm hanging out with the gov in the free

00:47:09.120 state. So you dropped it yesterday, right? People can listen to it on your feed now.

00:47:13.640 Awesome. Awesome. Well, you've been doing great work, almost as good as DeSantis.

00:47:17.820 It's a pleasure, Dave Rubin. Always a friend. Always great with the recipes to follow his

00:47:22.300 Twitter if you want to know what I'm talking about. Although I think it's the other David

00:47:24.960 who's the secret behind the magic in the kitchen. Megan, Megan, listen, I know you're going on

00:47:29.400 vacation. Don't worry. Keep your phone on you. And if anything happens related to January 6th,

00:47:34.820 if the Lego set got assembled or just even something worse than that, I will text you.

00:47:39.820 You have nothing to worry about. That's a true friend. Thank you, Dave Rubin.

00:47:46.840 Amber Heard is speaking out with an NBC interview. They're going to air it on Dateline

00:47:52.700 later this week, but they're releasing clips now. She says she does not blame people for

00:47:58.380 their opinions about her private life, but she does maintain in the wake of the verdict against

00:48:02.960 her that social media in particular was extremely unfair to her. Listen, I don't care what one thinks

00:48:10.060 about me or what judgments you want to make about what happened in the privacy of my own home,

00:48:15.880 in my marriage, behind closed doors. I don't presume the average person should know those

00:48:20.700 things. And so I don't take it personally, but even somebody who is sure I'm deserving of

00:48:29.160 all this hate and vitriol, even if you think that I'm lying, you still couldn't look me in the eye and

00:48:37.180 tell me that you think on social media, there's been a fair representation. You cannot tell me

00:48:42.260 that you think that this has been fair.

00:48:44.420 Joining me now to discuss it, my guest today, Emily Jashinsky, culture editor at The Federalist

00:48:52.340 and host of The Federalist Radio Hour, which is amazing, and Eliana Johnson, editor-in-chief of

00:48:57.300 The Washington Free Beacon. Now she's becoming a very important person in all, well, media and also

00:49:03.360 conservative media as well. She's co-host of Ink Stained Wretches as well, which happens to star

00:49:09.560 her, not just Eliana, but Chris Direwell, who we talked about at the top of the show. So busy day

00:49:14.000 here. Welcome back, Emily and Eliana. Great to have you.

00:49:17.140 Hey, Megan.

00:49:17.640 Thanks for having us.

00:49:19.260 All right. So, you know, she's like, first of all, I don't care what anybody thinks of me.

00:49:24.360 Yes, she clearly does, because it came out of the trial over and over, the number of media attempts

00:49:28.740 she made, the number of media manipulations she attempted, right, from making sure that TMZ,

00:49:35.080 100% they proved this at trial, making sure TMZ was there when she walked out of her,

00:49:38.960 filing her request for a restraining order. With the bruise on her face, real or fake,

00:49:44.020 she made sure they were there. I mean, I was amazed at how great the defense did at proving

00:49:49.380 at least that point that she did manipulate TMZ. When the TMZ guy took the stand and testified to

00:49:54.640 it over TMZ's objection, that was a very important moment of the trial. You know, she, of course,

00:50:00.080 worked with the ACLU to publish the op-ed, which got her in trouble in the defamation. The point is,

00:50:04.760 she cares. She's only saying she doesn't care because she just lost. And for her to say that

00:50:09.820 the social media against her was unfair, you know, to me, it's like, as I said in the intro to the

00:50:14.540 whole show, chicken or egg, right? Like she was unbelievable and social media turned against her

00:50:20.540 or social media turned against her. And then the jurors found her unbelievable. She thinks it's

00:50:26.020 the latter. I think it's the former. What do you guys think?

00:50:31.180 Yeah, I think there's no question that there was a tilt, but I think the chicken and egg dynamic is

00:50:36.940 the right way to put it because it did seem as though people were, and this is like absolutely

00:50:41.640 one of the most fascinating things about the case. People were watching the raw, like live footage of

00:50:48.100 the trial. It wasn't that people were just getting information from the clips. The internet feed

00:50:53.040 of the video was like setting records for some websites. It was so popular. People just clinging

00:50:58.980 to the live feed. So I think it tilted when the case against Amber Heard tilted. There's no question

00:51:05.980 that Johnny Depp has an army of online fans, but this culture is not one that is predisposed despite

00:51:12.640 what the feminist left might want to believe is not predisposed to take the case of somebody with

00:51:18.260 Me Too allegations against them as though it's credible and certainly just fact. And that's

00:51:24.520 proven actually by the case study of this Washington Post op-ed. Our culture, if anything, is predisposed

00:51:29.660 against the men, which is why the Post was comfortable publishing that in the first place

00:51:33.880 in so many of these case studies. So I think the chicken and egg question is the right one.

00:51:38.640 But I do think when you really drill down, it started to tilt as the case against

00:51:42.700 Heard tilted and played out live on everybody's feeds.

00:51:46.020 You know, Eliana, she went on. Savannah Guthrie pressed her on whether she holds it against

00:51:51.520 the jury. And no sane public figure is going to be like, yes, I blame the damn jury. The jury sucked.

00:51:57.540 Like, you know, you're not supposed to do that. So but she landed the exchange in an interesting

00:52:03.120 place that I want to ask you about. Listen to this. This is SOT 15.

00:52:05.760 There's no polite way to say it. The jury looked at the evidence you presented. They listened to your

00:52:15.240 testimony and they did not believe you. They thought you were lying. How could I put it this

00:52:23.160 way? How could they make a judgment? How could they not come to that conclusion? They had sat

00:52:30.680 in those seats and heard over three weeks of nonstop, relentless testimony from paid employees

00:52:42.000 and towards the end of the trial, randos, as I say. So you don't blame the jury?

00:52:49.180 I don't blame them. It wasn't. I don't blame them. I actually understand he's a beloved character

00:52:55.160 actor. And people feel they know him. He's a fantastic actor.

00:53:00.220 Their job is to not be dazzled by that. Their job is to look at the facts and the evidence.

00:53:06.440 And they did not believe your testimony or your evidence.

00:53:12.780 Again, how could they, after listening to three and a half weeks of testimony about how I was

00:53:19.920 a non-credible person, not to believe a word that came out of my mouth.

00:53:25.160 I mean, what she's basically saying, Eliana, is the other lawyers did a better job than my lawyers

00:53:31.480 and Johnny did a better job than I did. And that's why it was unfair, this verdict against me.

00:53:38.460 Yeah. And she's calling the jurors gullible morons by saying that, you know, Johnny's a beloved

00:53:44.260 character and a wonderful actor and omitting the fact that she also had equal time to present

00:53:51.760 her evidence and her defense in this trial. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that

00:53:58.300 the jurors were scrolling social media coverage of the trial.

00:54:02.440 No, they were ordered not to touch it, not to go anywhere near it.

00:54:05.780 As to her point about social media, other than to say that it hurts her feelings that she's getting

00:54:11.900 critical coverage on social media because there's no way that the coverage on social media reached

00:54:16.960 the jurors in that box. And given that it's entirely irrelevant other than she doesn't like

00:54:22.940 the critical coverage. She's like, how could they think anything other than I'm a liar

00:54:27.280 when they listen to Johnny's paid staffers and randos? You know, she tried to claim the one guy

00:54:33.380 whose trailer got damaged by Johnny to some small extent was somebody who wasn't there and really

00:54:39.760 didn't have a connection. Your lawyer had the chance to point all of this out on cross

00:54:44.380 examination and did. And you, Amber Heard, pointed it out when you were on the witness

00:54:49.160 stand as well. The jury heard all of your defenses, all of your attempts to poke holes in the credibility

00:54:54.600 of these people, and they rejected them. That doesn't make the jury this helpless group

00:55:00.600 of vulnerable people who would just be swayed by the randos and the paid employees. They factored

00:55:06.680 all of that in and they still did not believe you. Like, that's how bad your case was. Your

00:55:12.860 testimonial was. They saw all of that and heard all those arguments. They rejected them.

00:55:19.080 I think the interview itself with Savannah Guthrie is representative of why people were skeptical of

00:55:25.720 her when she was on the stand, because it's so contrived. It doesn't feel natural. It feels like

00:55:31.000 she's acting and not doing a very good job at that, but she's still doing it in this conversation

00:55:37.200 with Savannah Guthrie. And that's where when she was caught in missteps or, you know, she was caught

00:55:43.820 in some cases outright saying something that turned out not to be true. And you're also putting on this

00:55:50.260 sort of act. It just is going to tank your credibility, not just with the jury, people who

00:55:56.000 were listening and hanging on every single word for the entire trial, but also with people who are just

00:56:00.320 seeing it in the public. It just it feels so contrived and it feels so unnatural. I don't

00:56:07.180 think she did herself any favors at all. Yeah, she's on a she's on a rehab tour here, Eliana,

00:56:12.840 because she wants to remain employable. And she lost on every front in this trial, PR, legal and so

00:56:21.220 on. Now, Johnny Depp suggesting he may not make her pay that eight million effectively that she owes

00:56:26.440 him. If you subtract the two million she won, he may not make her pay. I mean, like he's already won

00:56:31.720 no matter what happens. And she's already lost no matter how many Today Show or Good Morning America

00:56:35.920 interviews she does. Yeah, I'm with Emily. She doesn't come across as an appealing or particularly

00:56:42.380 credible person. And I did not follow this super closely. So I think I'm probably close to the

00:56:47.640 average person who was like watching it out of the corner of my eye and catching it in the background.

00:56:51.840 My my favorite piece of journalistic coverage of this was a fantastic Wall Street Journal piece.

00:56:58.280 They didn't draw the comparison, but it was obvious to me to the O.J. trial where they talked about

00:57:03.980 Amber Heard and the way she tried the like the braids that she put her hair in to create a kind of

00:57:09.520 homespun, wholesome image. And I thought it was like a really wonderful way of piercing the the whole

00:57:17.820 charade that we saw on her part in the courtroom of trying to present as somebody very different from

00:57:24.200 the person that she actually is. She did. She looked all but Amish as she took the stand a couple of

00:57:29.360 days, like two braids, you know, like tied together in the back. And she had the same kind of look in

00:57:36.220 this interview with Savannah Guthrie. It was not the supermodel who we got to know, you know, 15 years

00:57:41.320 ago. Yeah. Meanwhile, there's all this testimony about her taking mushrooms and, you know, pooping

00:57:45.620 in the bed. This is not that Amish, though. You know, what do I know? OK, so another woman in the

00:57:51.920 news today that I wanted to ask you about is Felicia Sonmez fired from the Washington Post after

00:57:58.640 taking out her flamethrower and trying to light it up over there at WAPO. Finally, somebody in charge

00:58:04.860 said, holy shit, we've got to fire Felicia. She's burning us down from the inside. And she was

00:58:12.580 terminated for insubordination. And I'll tell you, I have a theory. I mean, Eliana, I'll start with you

00:58:16.940 on this since you, you know, you have the job you have at a different paper. I think Felicia Sonmez

00:58:23.180 knew her time at WAPO was short before she lit her flamethrower. I think she her tweets, her nonstop

00:58:32.240 attacks on her colleagues, her bosses, her paper, to me, sounded like they were born of somebody who

00:58:37.640 was already disgruntled, who knew like her time there was short and felt the freedom, I guess,

00:58:45.240 to light it up. That's it's not supported by anything. It's just my that's my guess, because

00:58:48.980 otherwise her behavior seems truly insane. Either way, she's gone. And the question a lot of people

00:58:55.380 are asking is, what took them so long? That is my question. I'm not sure, Megan, because she has

00:59:03.080 been doing this, not at the same clip, but but basically, for the past year, I mean, she sued

00:59:09.460 the newspaper for discrimination. And I think she went ape and, you know, nuts when her lawsuit was

00:59:17.500 tossed out. And I think the paper's hands were tied while she was tweeting until the lawsuit was thrown

00:59:24.780 out. But then she basically got laughed out of court and and was and continued tweeting at all of

00:59:32.020 her colleagues. I think what became untenable for the paper was that there was there were real

00:59:37.260 complaints from lots of her colleagues inside and pressure on management to do something about it

00:59:42.620 because, you know, hundreds of people inside that paper were pressuring management to do something.

00:59:48.860 Now, the question to me, Megan, is there are lots of people criticizing each other inside the

00:59:53.940 Washington Post. Taylor Lorenz just threw her editor under the bus. You know, there were others who were

00:59:59.380 criticizing Felicia Sanmez on Twitter and violating their clearly articulated standard by the new editor

01:00:05.440 over there, Sally Busby. She said, do not snipe at your colleagues. Well, Felicia wasn't the only one

01:00:11.140 doing that. So is she going to discipline the other people or do you only have to do it 400 times before

01:00:16.700 they throw you out the door? Good question. This she Eliana runs much tighter ship over at the Washington

01:00:22.540 Free Beacon. You try this nonsense over there. You're going to have a very different result. Yeah, we you

01:00:27.480 know, Josh Barrow, the columnist, he wrote a wonderful column about this where he said if he was running

01:00:35.180 the post, he'd be handing out suspensions like candy and that while conservative organizations have a lot of

01:00:40.140 problems, this is not one of them. Right, right. And you get a suspension and you get a suspension.

01:00:45.580 It should have been an Oprah car situation. I don't know, Emily, I'm going to miss her. I personally

01:00:50.100 I'm going to miss her. I was enjoying the saga. She's been silent for like three days.

01:00:55.940 She's going to go somewhere actually where she's probably going to be even more vocal somewhere

01:00:59.640 that's like has dropped the pretense that it's not ideological. And like she's going to go to like

01:01:04.420 slate, you know, somewhere where she can say all of the stuff on Twitter. So it's going to be

01:01:08.080 exciting for those of us who have enjoyed the show. But this is the reason it doesn't happen

01:01:12.700 at conservative publications is because at these other publications that claim they're not, you

01:01:16.880 know, progressive or ideological, they're merely neutral. They actually have allowed people to

01:01:22.860 weaponize these charges of identity politics in these HR disputes and these personnel disputes

01:01:28.500 to the point where they had people on both sides. I mean, there are people literally counting

01:01:33.080 how many of their colleagues, how many of their white colleagues were liking like tweets that were

01:01:39.460 in support of Dave Weigel. And so there was pressure on both sides in the post newsroom. There are

01:01:44.860 people who thought what Sámez was doing was absurd and people who thought what she was doing was brave

01:01:49.820 and necessary. And that's what's truly insane. The post and institutions like it have enabled this

01:01:55.840 kind of weaponization of identity politics charges beyond the realm of absurdity. I mean, we are like

01:02:02.620 just her, her entire argument in this case is beyond ridiculous. And yet the post still has to treat it

01:02:09.420 clearly, still has to treat it seriously. And so they've let these things metastasize under their

01:02:14.180 noses and it has completely turned their newsrooms and actually other workplaces as well. This isn't just

01:02:19.840 in media. It's on campaigns, democratic campaigns and other spaces. It's turned them into unmanageable

01:02:26.260 places. And so they have so much more work to do than just firing Felicia Sámez. This is like their

01:02:32.380 entire newsroom. And Taylor Lorenz has committed a string of, you know, lapses in journalists.

01:02:38.220 We'll get to her one second. Wait, stand by on Taylor. I should have begun with this. Felicia Sámez is a

01:02:44.260 Washington Post reporter or was until she just got booted last Friday or whenever it was. She got in

01:02:49.240 trouble because a colleague of hers at the Washington Post, Dave Weigel, had retweeted,

01:02:53.260 just retweeted a Twitter joke about how all women are bi, either sexual or what was the other?

01:03:02.380 I keep forgetting. Polar. Or polar. Right. So whatever. Silly joke. He retweeted it. She was

01:03:07.800 like, see how nice it is to work with Dave at the Washington Post and, you know, litter flamethrower and

01:03:12.700 just attacked everybody. When everybody defended, when anyone defended Dave, she attacked them too,

01:03:16.860 to the point where this other guy who was like, hey, you're kind of mean. You're so nasty to the

01:03:20.360 colleague. She was like, screw you. You're next. And the guy was like, gay Hispanic. And she was

01:03:24.580 like, I don't care. Everyone, everyone's going down. Anyway, so she got fired finally after just

01:03:30.440 lighting the place up. But to your point, Emily, follow up. It's the veil is coming down voluntarily

01:03:39.080 or involuntarily on so many of these networks that used to at least pursue the pretense of fairness,

01:03:45.940 of objectivity, you know, of doing both sides. And this is the eye-catching headline that I saw on

01:03:51.960 Sunday. How this is a tweet from Steve Guest, who actually is special advisor for Cruz, Ted Cruz.

01:04:01.800 And he's citing TV eyes, which watches all the Sunday shows. Number of mentions of Kavanaugh,

01:04:08.080 who there was an attempted assassination. Why is the left keep, they are like, there wasn't an

01:04:12.080 attempted assassination. Well, the guy got a gun and a rope and a knife and showed up at his house

01:04:17.100 with the intent on killing him. And then the only reason he wasn't is because he saw two federal

01:04:21.400 marshals and called in and said, I, you know, help me. I'm about to kill him. So I'm going to say,

01:04:27.320 yes, attempted assassination. Number of mentions of Kavanaugh on the Sunday shows, ABC, zero. NBC's

01:04:34.140 meet the press, zero. CBS's face of the nation, zero. CNN, State of the Union, zero. Fox News Sunday

01:04:41.520 did mention it. Unbelievable that the Sunday political shows don't think what happened to

01:04:49.280 Brett Kavanaugh this week is worthy of even one line. Yeah. And it's because they have this pretense

01:04:56.920 and it's like the media has fragmented in a way that like, if you are, the example I always use

01:05:02.800 is Johnny Carson. Johnny Carson had to appeal basically to the entire country because there

01:05:06.900 were three channels. And so his writers would sit down every day and say, what is going to make

01:05:10.420 America laugh tonight? Stephen Colbert can be the number one host in late night, but also be

01:05:15.420 extremely polarizing and extremely unfunny because his writers only have to sit down every night and

01:05:20.020 think what is going to make resistance boomers laugh tonight? And it's the same dynamic at play in the

01:05:25.240 Sunday shows when you have, you know, three channels and you have to like say, what is going

01:05:29.480 to make everybody, what, what is everybody who's interested in politics? What do they want to hear

01:05:34.460 the experts sort of weighing in on this weekend? And now Fox News Sunday will mention it, but you'll

01:05:40.380 get no coverage of it. And, and the problem is if you're pretending just to be a show for liberals,

01:05:46.500 fine. Like, or if you're, if you're openly just a show for liberals, fine. But if you're pretending

01:05:51.400 to be a neutral show for the entire country, you're failing utterly at the job, but it's because

01:05:56.300 people like Felicia Summers and, you know, Taylor Lorenz or whoever else, they're the ones writing

01:06:01.020 and producing these segments. Yeah. I mean, that is so out of touch. I cannot imagine sitting in a

01:06:06.400 newsroom, even a far left newsroom, like an NBC and not have somebody say, does anyone think we should

01:06:13.580 mention that there was an attempted assassination on a sitting Supreme court justice? As we await a critical

01:06:19.400 decision on whether Roe versus Wade is going to get overturned, a decision that's been leaked. So we

01:06:25.540 kind of have an idea of how it's going to go. Anyone, anyone think it's, and, and no person there

01:06:30.420 said, yeah, we should actually put that. I mean, that's, it's really ultimately on Chuck Todd and all the

01:06:34.220 other anchors who sit in those chairs because, you know, ultimately the talent gets to say, no, that needs

01:06:39.980 to be in there. It's my reputation that needs to be in there. And no one did. Um, just rounding back,

01:06:45.980 I'm sorry. Cause I said, we get to Taylor Lorenz and it worth, it's bears worth just to mention.

01:06:49.900 Cause you say, this is who's running these newsrooms. This is who's making these editorial

01:06:53.420 decisions, right? These Taylor Lorenz has got the pen for the Washington post. So did Felicia

01:06:57.500 Sodmez and Taylor Lorenz tweeted out on Friday as if she doesn't have enough trouble because she

01:07:01.880 threw her editor under the bus and she said she contacted people and she didn't in a piece and so

01:07:05.860 on. She tweets out the following. This is, listen, it's lunacy at this point during COVID COVID's

01:07:10.420 over. I have to fly soon for work. And as someone who is medically vulnerable, I'm so scared. She's

01:07:17.120 as I understand her medical vulnerability, it's the thing she's already talked about where she pulls

01:07:20.540 out her own hair and she picks at her own skin. It's like some nervous disorder. All COVID precautions

01:07:24.800 that keep high risk people safe have been dropped. I plan to keep an N95 on my face for all seven hours

01:07:29.700 with zero water breaks, but I'm scared it may not seal perfectly. Any tips? I mean, like, would you calm

01:07:37.160 down? Would you just take a seat? Like, don't get on the airplane. Don't go outside. Stay in your

01:07:40.980 apartment. Continue doxing people from the privacy of your master bedroom. I mean, primary.

01:07:46.200 She doesn't need to leave. She can do her whole job without leaving. It's true.

01:07:50.480 Scrolls through kids Instagram feeds. It's true. Where I honestly wasn't sure when I first saw it in my in

01:07:57.840 my timeline. But it's amazing. Like if you scroll back through her tweets, these are the people who

01:08:05.520 like berate the rest of us to follow the science and pay attention to the experts. And I'm pretty sure

01:08:11.200 this is not what there's a reason that, you know, the so-called experts tell us we don't need to wear

01:08:16.200 the masks anymore. But, you know, they're they won't give it up. Can you imagine being that scared

01:08:24.120 to take to take down your N95 to have a sip of water on an airplane? Which I mean, we've talked about

01:08:31.940 this before, but there's been absolutely not even one documented case of somebody contracting COVID

01:08:36.880 on an airplane where they do a great job of the air circulation. It's insane, right? This person's

01:08:42.000 not tethered to reality and yet has got a pretty well read position at one of the nation's most

01:08:50.360 premier newspapers. And she's not fired since no problem. In fact, she's probably going to take over

01:08:55.060 the COVID beat soon. Well, and she was a huge part of the the internal discord over at the New York

01:09:02.860 Times as well. And so she's gone from the Daily Beast, the Atlantic to New York Times to now the

01:09:08.180 Washington Post. And she's causing some of the same internal discord that she did at the New York

01:09:12.140 Times, because a lot of the older journalists absolutely hate this kind of behavior. And anybody

01:09:16.540 should be embarrassed to tweet something like that. I mean, it's obviously just on a personal level,

01:09:21.160 the revelation of that level of like personal weakness, even talking about your personal life

01:09:26.960 like that has been so normalized because of Twitter for your personal problems. You're a reporter. I

01:09:32.260 mean, she's not a she's not a pundit. She's not a commentary person. She's a reporter. And conducting

01:09:38.220 herself that way on the internet is just like so humiliating. But she also seems to be genuinely

01:09:43.920 unwell. And it's amazing the platform that she has, well, seeming, you know, to be someone who

01:09:51.120 needs help more than anything. And Eric Wemple absolutely wiped the floor with his own colleagues

01:09:57.700 at the Washington Post in a fact check, basically of the many fact checks in that Taylor Lorenz piece

01:10:02.800 in question, just saying there's still no good explanation, no good journalistic explanation for

01:10:07.540 what happened in this story. And he's completely right. What would you say, Eliana, if one of your

01:10:12.020 reporters came to you and said, the people are writing the mean things. I've been doxxed. And when you

01:10:18.780 look at it, it's actually not that they're revealing this person's home address or home

01:10:22.000 phone number. They're just saying Taylor Lorenz did this bad thing. You know, like, oh, this is

01:10:26.040 this is the piece. She's dishonest. Like they're criticizing her the way we all get. I mean, we're

01:10:30.180 all women in media. What would you say to a reporter who's like, stop harassment. It's driving me,

01:10:36.600 you know, to to terrible places. Like, honestly, as a boss, what would you say?

01:10:41.200 We have had that happen a couple of times, the most recent instance I can think of. And that

01:10:47.060 wasn't the reaction of the reporter. But, you know, it's jarring for in my case, these are you

01:10:52.300 know, they're not kids, but they're in their early 20s. We had Asha Rangappa, the CNN contributor,

01:10:58.200 docs one of our one of our reporters and publish her email address. And and she was rattled,

01:11:05.900 the reporter. And I just told her, you know, like this time to put on your big boy pants,

01:11:10.500 like reporting is for adults and stuff like this happens. And you just got to keep your

01:11:15.480 head about you. And I also tell them to stay off Twitter. They all know it's kind of a joke

01:11:20.740 in the office that I hate Twitter. And I've told them, like, you tweet something that causes me a

01:11:24.780 problem and you're gone. Like they don't listen to me. I tell them, stop tweeting. They all keep

01:11:30.520 tweeting. So I was like, I see you don't follow my advice. You cause your tweet causes me a

01:11:34.700 problem. You know, I'm not gonna like it. That's that'll be the end. Yeah, proceed at your own

01:11:40.140 risk. You you assume the risk. I think that's good. I mean, big boy pants is exactly right.

01:11:45.440 That's what it has to be like grow a pair ovaries, testes, whatever it is, but grow a pair like lean

01:11:51.240 into the adult you are on this front. I've been wanting to ask you a question, Emily. You did a pod

01:11:57.420 recently about Sheryl Sandberg stepping down as COO of Facebook, like one of the most powerful

01:12:04.120 positions, certainly for a woman executive in the world. And, you know, she's got billions in stock

01:12:10.860 and so on. She's very rich woman as a result of cashing in this in now and was beforehand as well.

01:12:16.060 But it was basically I think the title was something like death of a girl boss. So what does that mean?

01:12:22.440 What did you make of her stepping down and what do you think is happening here?

01:12:27.060 Yeah. So my colleague, Madeline Osborne, crunched some numbers. And there are two really interesting

01:12:32.280 trends that happened over COVID that put us in a very different world than we were in when Lean In,

01:12:38.060 it was 2013, I think, came out and was this massive bestseller. And that's the birth rate ticked up for

01:12:43.760 the first time in like 13 years, some like very long period over the course of COVID, which is really,

01:12:49.660 really interesting. And then secondly, women dropped out of the workforce at a record number. I think it was

01:12:55.640 like something like 2 million or 3 million women have dropped out of the workforce over the course of

01:12:59.340 COVID. That may seem like a really negative development to a lot of people, especially in

01:13:04.360 the Beltway. But Lyman Stone at the Institute for Family Studies was like crunching all the variables

01:13:09.280 and trying to put two and two together. And he's like, actually, you know, this is kind of in line

01:13:13.840 with women's preferences. Most women with children in the home under the age of 18 say they prefer

01:13:18.920 part-time work. And so remote work has given women that opportunity. If you go all the way back to 10

01:13:24.720 years ago, when Lean In came out, it was, you know, the way to fulfill yourself as a woman was

01:13:29.840 to be, you know, prioritizing work and motherhood equally, to figure out how you can do both and not

01:13:37.480 sacrifice one with the implication that like fulfillment as a woman was being equal to a man

01:13:42.760 in the workforce. And it is just not the case for most women. And I think COVID really like rattled,

01:13:49.700 or it just shook women out of that. I don't know, the trance that the media had tried to put a lot

01:13:55.300 of people in saying that the only way that you can be a successful woman is to be a COO and also a

01:14:02.280 mother of three children. When in fact, a lot of women say it's most fulfilling for them to have

01:14:07.100 part-time work or to be at home with their children, to homeschool, whatever it is. And so it just feels

01:14:12.220 like we entered a new chapter. This is like kind of part of the vibe shift, I think, with Sheryl Sandberg

01:14:17.900 stepping down and getting a much, much less warm send-off than she did a welcome when Lean In was

01:14:24.840 published. It's so interesting. And I, it gives me hope in a way, Eliana, that, you know, the society

01:14:32.500 comes full circle. Like we get back to the place that makes sense, you know, where if you want to

01:14:38.360 be a girl boss and you want to devote your life to your career and put family second or, you know,

01:14:44.140 eliminate it, you know, you just want to make your job your life. You can do that, but that we're no

01:14:50.260 longer shaming or just pushing, pushing, pushing girls toward that as much as we used to, because

01:14:56.220 we're recognizing that this other option, which used to, I grant you, used to be the only option,

01:15:01.400 but not for that long, is still viable and is meaningful and is available to you and a legitimate

01:15:08.160 choice too. Gives me, gives me hope on all the social battles that we're fighting right now that,

01:15:13.420 you know, perhaps we could land in a more reasonable place on all of them. But am I too optimistic based

01:15:18.480 on this one thing? I hope you're right, Megan. I will say, Emily, I was part of that increase in

01:15:25.560 the birth rate during COVID. I have a five month old and, you know, having gone through that experience

01:15:32.080 and being back in the office now, I can say like, it is much harder work to be home with your kids

01:15:37.440 than it is to be in the office and around adults all day. And so I have a whole lot of respect for

01:15:44.120 the women who choose to be at home with their kids and give up, you know, the privilege of being in an

01:15:51.260 office and around adults and then being able to go home and be with your kids for a couple hours at

01:15:55.280 the end of the day. So I do hope that we're getting to a place where we applaud women for whatever

01:16:01.120 choice that they make. Yeah. Although I have to say, like, I look at my three kids now and I'm

01:16:06.420 like, please, please don't become an investment banker. Please don't work on Wall Street. Don't

01:16:10.760 don't go to a law firm. Don't like there's certain law jobs that are OK, but just feel like the last

01:16:15.380 thing I want is for them to have this like huge corporate, boring, money pushing career. I just

01:16:21.140 that's sort of what I thought made somebody important when I was young. You know, I didn't grow up

01:16:27.320 with money and I wanted some. But I'd hate to see my kids make that choice. I don't know what I want

01:16:32.400 them to do. I don't want to be like drunken on drugs all the time in a band. I don't know.

01:16:37.060 Thankfully, it's really not my decisions. There's but death of the grill boss was a good episode and

01:16:42.620 you guys should check it out. Right. Stand by so much more to do with Emily and Eliana, including

01:16:46.480 what just happened on guns. We may be getting new gun legislation for the first time in a couple

01:16:50.840 decades. We'll tell you what's in there. So guns, we now have 10 Republican senators and 10 Democrat

01:17:01.340 senators who say they've reached a deal in principle on gun reform of some type. It sounds like they may

01:17:10.220 be conditioning certain additional monies to states who have more robust red flag laws and some things

01:17:19.360 around the edges that, you know, could potentially help. I don't know that these are going to be huge,

01:17:24.300 you know, flame throwing deal breakers for the hardcore Second Amendment people. They won't like it.

01:17:30.500 I don't I to me, it sounds like this has got enough moderation in it that it'll go through. But what do you

01:17:36.340 gals think? Yeah, I think you're right, Megan. It seems pretty small ball to me. Anything that about 10

01:17:43.360 Republicans can agree on Democrats with in the course of a week, it's it's pretty penny ante and small.

01:17:52.040 Mm hmm. Yeah. Did you see anything in there, Emily, that you think like federalist listeners and readers are going to

01:17:57.620 want to throw down over? They may not like it, but want to throw down over.

01:18:01.060 Yeah, I think the grants to to for states to enforce and create red flag laws is going to be a sticking

01:18:09.600 point just because they depend from state to state. They differ in terms of their constitutionality

01:18:15.440 and in terms of their practicality, even so like California has a very stringent and extreme red flag

01:18:22.200 law compared to what might actually be better targeted or a smarter version or even a more

01:18:27.460 constitutional version in different states. And so I think people like Senator Cornyn are going to

01:18:32.600 have to answer to conservatives when they say, is this money going to unconstitutional, the

01:18:37.760 enforcement of unconstitutional red flag laws that aren't effective and only punish law abiding gun

01:18:44.720 owners. So I think we don't have the text of the bill yet. They're they're working on that. This is the

01:18:49.460 framework, like you said, Megan. So I don't know exactly what it is, but I think that's going to be a

01:18:54.260 sticking point no matter what for the Republicans who signed on to this bill. But that said, it is

01:18:59.400 pretty I think I agree with both of you. Anything that they're all coming together on on something

01:19:03.400 like this is going to be pretty innocuous, honestly, and it might make us feel good and it might do

01:19:09.440 incrementally some good. I don't know if it's a huge step towards really, you know, ridding us of

01:19:15.920 the scourge of these these pattern mass shootings. No, the package is said to focus on extra security

01:19:22.960 for gun buyers under the age of 21 grants to states to implement these so-called red flag

01:19:29.020 flags and laws and some new spending on mental health treatment and school security. Also, they want

01:19:35.820 to close the so-called boyfriend loophole by broadening gun restrictions on those who have abused

01:19:41.440 their romantic partners. Amen to that. I mean, like a lot of this stuff is like, hello, we should have been

01:19:46.160 doing that a while ago. There's big push to lower the age at which you can buy a gun from 21 to I mean,

01:19:52.840 to raise it from 18 to 21. I'll tell you, like, I don't know why more people aren't talking about

01:19:57.360 the fact that like that's already been tried and ruled unconstitutional by the very left leaning

01:20:00.940 Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. Like, I'm not sure that one's going to be upheld may make you feel

01:20:05.540 better. But 18 is 18. And in the eyes of the law, you're an adult all for extra scrutiny because the

01:20:10.520 school shooters do tend to be right in that 18 to 21 year old spot too often or even just mass

01:20:15.500 shooters. But we'll see. It definitely would be a significant development because we've had no

01:20:21.240 motion on gun laws in decades. I wonder how big a win this will be for the Biden administration.

01:20:28.740 Now, the New York Times had an article this week about how they want him gone. The Democrats want

01:20:33.140 him gone. The Democrats smell blood in the water and they are scared that Biden's too unpopular,

01:20:39.640 wrong direction of the country, something like 73 percent now, higher than it ever was under Trump or just

01:20:44.080 about. And they've recognized Biden. He's going down unless something changes, Eliana. So is this

01:20:51.380 the thing that helps them in the midterms or helps him hold on to power? Is this it?

01:20:56.380 No. My favorite quote in that New York Times article was yet that I think the reporter said

01:21:02.180 they talked to 50 Democrats and Democratic consultants. And Howard Dean, the former Vermont

01:21:07.620 governor, was among those quoted who called his generation of Democrats a trash heap and implored

01:21:15.180 Biden to step aside and cede the presidency, the candidacy to somebody in the younger generation.

01:21:23.720 But I don't know who it was who said when the economy is the issue, it's the only issue.

01:21:28.460 I'm sorry. But the January 6th hearings, a small piece of gun legislation,

01:21:33.920 nothing that a new Iran Iran deal, nothing is going to push the highest inflation in four decades

01:21:43.160 off the minds of voters ahead of November until the Biden administration is able to address that,

01:21:49.520 not to mention a shortage of baby formula, tampons, you know, who knows what's next?

01:21:55.220 Oh, the tampons are gone. What?

01:21:57.940 Oh, yeah, that's that's coming next. Tampon shortage.

01:22:00.800 That's that's a problem. That's a real problem. As somebody who's had blood coming out of her

01:22:04.180 wherever, I can tell you, you need to stay on your eyes, Megan.

01:22:10.360 Yeah, that's right. Out of my eyes. That's right. OK. How about a Supreme Court decision

01:22:15.880 overturning Roe versus Wade? Because we expect that that will come. You know, there was the leak and

01:22:22.180 then there was follow up reporting by CNN, I think, saying nothing had changed in terms of the vote

01:22:26.280 count and so on, notwithstanding the attempt by Democrats to keep these judges vulnerable.

01:22:34.640 I know Nancy Pelosi says they weren't unprotected. They had U.S. Marshals there. But there's a reason

01:22:39.220 that this guy only faced two U.S. Marshals and trying to get Brett Kavanaugh because the Senate

01:22:44.260 unanimously passed this agreement to give the Supreme Court justices and their kids 24 seven security

01:22:51.200 when necessary. The House is sitting on it. They won't pass it. So that security would have been

01:22:56.720 a lot more beefed up and more intense had they passed this. They won't do it because of people

01:23:01.400 like AOC, who's bragging that she won't sign on. She says, if we're not going to make our kids safe

01:23:09.440 in school, those justices can sit, you know, in in a vulnerable state in their houses. Oh, that makes

01:23:14.900 a lot of sense because it's exactly the same issue. And meanwhile, Emily, we find out that this group

01:23:20.000 Ruth sent us, which has been targeting the justices, conservative justices at their homes

01:23:23.820 this weekend, tweeted out Justice Amy Coney Barrett's church, I guess. Is it her? No,

01:23:31.460 it was her children's school, her church and her children's school, encouraging protesters to,

01:23:39.200 quote, voice their anger by demonstrating their this is beyond. It is. And the left loves to play

01:23:45.900 this game with Republicans. Anytime some fringe leftist activist or fringe conservative activist

01:23:51.900 does something silly, every anchor that talks to any Republican, CNN, they always have to do

01:23:58.940 that question where they, you know, they get it out of the way. They say, well, do you condemn this?

01:24:03.720 It's like, well, of course. But there's zero of that happening now. You'll notice, I think it's only

01:24:08.100 like Chuck Schumer has come out and said, you know, we condemn any non-peaceful protest, something to that

01:24:13.660 effect. Nobody's asking them any questions about whether they can tone down their rhetoric. The

01:24:18.840 reason people like AOC don't want to vote for that is because it's going to be an admission or a

01:24:24.500 concession that the leak was in and of itself wrong and that the leaker should be punished,

01:24:29.440 which, of course, they don't want to believe because the leaker is the only chance that this

01:24:34.780 decision was going to be changed. And so their motives are so in the wrong direction. And they talk

01:24:41.200 constantly about the undermining of our norms as a country. Well, not coming out and condemning all

01:24:48.260 of this, not coming out. We still don't know who the leaker is. I interviewed Senator Mike Lee on the

01:24:52.540 podcast last week. He said he thinks they do know who the leaker is and it's not public yet because

01:24:57.240 they're waiting until the decision is announced to say what punishments this person has had.

01:25:02.600 But again, we don't know. We truly don't know. And so it's the most insane thing ever. I live not

01:25:08.780 too far from the Supreme Court. It's pretty tense. And there is a lot of security. It's crazy to me

01:25:15.420 that when that guy got there, there were only two security guards, at least that he saw outside of

01:25:19.180 Brett Kavanaugh's house. Just insane. And I think actually we're probably in for a summer of unrest

01:25:25.160 of people targeting, especially Catholic parishes, targeting mass. We saw a little bit of it after the

01:25:31.500 leak came out, but it's just going to amplify a whole lot more, I think, in the next few weeks.

01:25:36.800 Even the mention of her children, Eliana, gives me a shiver down my spine that that is a line you do

01:25:47.320 not cross. You do not cross. And that's one of the reasons why allowing the protests at the homes

01:25:52.380 is so dangerous to Brett Kavanaugh has two teenage girls. Amy Coney Barrett has got several children,

01:25:57.820 one of whom is a 10 year old with Down syndrome. What kind of a sick effort encourages people to go to

01:26:04.520 the school of those children or go to the home of those children and, quote, voice your anger,

01:26:10.600 which could mean anything in this kind of a charged political environment in which the justice's

01:26:15.520 vulnerability is in the news because of people like AOC. It's totally sick. And Megan, we haven't

01:26:23.060 even talked about the targeting of pro-life clinics. One was firebombed in Oregon this weekend. Talk

01:26:30.520 about things that Democrats won't be asked about or domestic terrorism that won't be paraded across

01:26:37.540 our television screens as the January 6th hearings take place. But I do think it would behoove members

01:26:44.360 of the Ginsburg family. You know, she has children and grandchildren to come out and say that this group

01:26:50.760 that's appropriating her name, calling us, Ruth sent us, that what they are doing and the appropriation of

01:26:57.960 her name is inappropriate and that they don't stand for this. I don't think it's anything that

01:27:01.460 the late justice would have approved of. That's a good point. But there really is a question about

01:27:06.120 whether there there's a reason like these Democrats want this to go on. They want the pressure to stay

01:27:13.060 on these justices. They want them to feel unsafe in their homes and be afraid for their children

01:27:17.600 because that's how desperate they are to see them reverse themselves on the positions expressed in

01:27:23.640 that draft opinion. That's exactly right. That was the purpose of the leaking was to unleash hell

01:27:30.260 on these people and to give them the impression that should they overturn the decision, should our

01:27:36.640 democratic processes work the way they're intended, that a wave of violence would overtake the country.

01:27:44.000 And this was an act of political pressure and political terrorism intended to target them personally

01:27:51.780 to land at their doorsteps. And, and it's totally sick. And I think everybody should remember that

01:27:58.100 as we're watching the January 6 hearings, we're seeing other acts of domestic terrorism across the

01:28:03.420 hunt across the country, targeting our political institutions and our democratic processes. And the

01:28:08.900 democratic outrage is entirely selective.

01:28:12.400 I just sent the free beacons reporting on all of these attacks to someone else. It's been fantastic.

01:28:18.460 All these attacks on pro-life pregnancy centers on all those other places, it's getting no play in

01:28:22.960 the mainstream media at all, but it's a hugely consequential story because it's only going to get

01:28:27.240 worse. And that's the important thing for people to remember with this story is that they leaked to

01:28:31.400 change the decision. And so all of this time and all of this pressure only benefits the leak campaign.

01:28:37.560 And that's why we're seeing Democrats react the way that we are because their motivation is to

01:28:42.200 preserve Roe, to protect legalized abortion. And that's what is most important to them over

01:28:47.660 everything else. It's so sick. Like who targets a pro-life clinic? You know what they do with the

01:28:52.860 pro-life clinic is they help moms who find themselves unexpectedly pregnant, who are wrestling with

01:28:59.060 abortion, understand what the options are and how they can actually still have a full life as a present

01:29:05.480 mother or as somebody who gave up the baby for adoption if they go through the pregnancy. And

01:29:09.900 then they help. Like a lot of people say, I can't afford it. And my mom has been volunteering at these

01:29:14.140 clinics for my whole life. We're Catholic. And they help get like baby formula and especially in today's

01:29:20.780 day and age and baby bottles and baby clothing and like a car seat. And like who and what kind of a

01:29:25.660 sick effort targets a clinic that's helping women like that? It's like you will get the abortion and only

01:29:32.580 the abortion. And if you go over to this other clinic where they're going to try to help you have

01:29:36.020 your baby or give your baby to a couple that really wants it, you're going to get bombed.

01:29:40.800 What the thinking? It's anti-woman because we know a lot of women actually struggle with mental health

01:29:47.200 issues after they get abortions. And what the pregnancy centers do is give you the information

01:29:52.420 that you don't get from the other side because they're so committed to legalized abortion that they're

01:29:57.160 afraid to talk about the negative consequences that some women face when they do get an abortion,

01:30:01.520 which is just fact and it's reality. And the safe, legal and rare framework is so completely out

01:30:06.880 the window now that there's no, the left now wants it to be abortion without shame, without any,

01:30:13.320 without any regret, without, it's just, it's just a medical procedure. It's just a clump of cells and

01:30:18.520 that's all you have to worry about. But these pregnancy centers actually help women say, you might

01:30:23.740 not be super happy with this decision down the road. This might cause you pain that you're not

01:30:28.960 expecting. So it's, you're right, Megan, it's completely sick and beyond the pale.

01:30:33.860 And nothing's letting up in the Supreme court issued five decisions today. Dobbs, which is the abortion

01:30:39.180 case was not one of them. They've added another day of this Wednesday of decisions, but if they follow

01:30:44.240 suit to the way they've done it in the past, they'll save this decision for probably the last day of the

01:30:49.000 term, which is early next month. Because for good reason, they want to get out of Dodge. They don't want

01:30:54.140 to issue this opinion and then be sitting in those houses. And once the decision's actually out, if it

01:30:58.920 goes this way, the protests are going to be out of control. And there's been absolutely no appetite

01:31:03.520 to control them. We have an attorney general who will not protect the sitting justices. He was,

01:31:09.300 his arm was twisted just to pay lip service to it. The president still hasn't condemned the

01:31:13.480 assassination attempt. So they're sitting ducks. They know what's going to happen if they issue this

01:31:18.680 thing while they're still in town deciding other cases. Absolutely.

01:31:22.040 There was a bill, there was a bill moving through the house. I think you mentioned that it passed

01:31:27.400 the Senate, Megan, and then it was moving through the house and Democrats tried to append security for

01:31:34.300 all of the clerks as well. So they threw sand in the gears of this bill. Of course, each justice has

01:31:41.240 four clerks. There are nine justices. That's security on the taxpayer dime for all of the clerks. That was

01:31:47.860 never going to happen. You know, nobody knows who they are. Nobody knows what they look like.

01:31:51.620 Nobody knows where they live. It's ridiculous. And so that's what we're waiting on to get

01:31:56.700 the nine justices, the protection that they need. Oh, wow. All right. Before I let you go,

01:32:02.460 can I ask you, Eliana, about Chris Starwalt? I started the show. You were probably busy,

01:32:06.380 but I started the show by saying I very much hope that he would keep it brief, that it wouldn't in

01:32:12.000 any way be, you know, too self-aggrandizing. Chris is never that way. He wasn't. I thought he did

01:32:17.220 very well. I thought he was gentlemanly. He was fact based. And I hate the vitriol that's come

01:32:22.500 his way as a result of that Arizona call, because I respect and know and love that decision desk and

01:32:27.360 know that their hearts are in the right place and they're not partisans at all. Not at all.

01:32:31.860 When he was talking about how we sat and we put it to a vote when they were going to call Arizona,

01:32:35.300 took me back to 2012. Remember that moment when we called Ohio? Fox News was about to call Ohio for

01:32:40.700 Barack Obama and Karl Rove on our decision desk was like, you did it too soon. And then I did the

01:32:47.280 walk down the hall and Chris Starwalt and Arnon Mishkin, who he mentioned. Those are the guys I

01:32:51.440 cross-examined like, hey, Rove says this is bullshit. He said you're you're out ahead of your

01:32:55.760 skis. And Starwalt and Arnon totally explained it. I know those guys. They're in earnest. They are not

01:33:01.440 partisan hacks who just wanted to accelerate the defeat of Donald Trump. He called it like he saw it.

01:33:06.300 So did those other guys. To me, it was like, I hope it finally closes that chapter.

01:33:10.540 What do you make of it? Because you're his partner on the pod.

01:33:14.280 Oh, I thought he did a fantastic job. I texted him saying so. We will talk about it this week

01:33:19.920 on Ink Stained Wretches. So for anybody who's interested, tune in. And, you know, I tell him

01:33:25.040 he's a big lib. I beat him up on the podcast every week. But but we all know that's true. That's not

01:33:30.660 true. That's why we can joke about it. He's a he's center right. And I'm the right wing crazy. So

01:33:35.480 he did his job that day. And and he did a great job this morning.

01:33:40.540 Yeah, that's right. And by the way, Chris Starwalt was on the decision desk when they

01:33:45.060 called it for Trump in 2016, too. You know, he called that like he saw it as well. This

01:33:50.020 is an honest man who I hope people will take a second look at because he led the Kelly file

01:33:55.440 for years calling out bullshit left wing media bias. This is not an enemy to, you know, the

01:34:02.900 MAGA crew's values. He wasn't a particular fan of Trump. A lot of people aren't. That's fine.

01:34:07.040 We have to come back together and focus on what matters, which is like the insanity that's

01:34:11.100 trying to break our country apart. All right. What a pleasure. Emily, Eliana, love talking

01:34:15.800 to you gals. Thanks so much for all of it. And check out Extained Wretches, as well as

01:34:20.540 The Federalist, which I love and listen to all the time. Coming up later this week, we are

01:34:24.100 bringing back our true crime series. This one we're calling Hot Crime Summer right here at

01:34:30.080 the Megyn Kelly Show. Went over so big when we did it over Christmas. We're going to do it

01:34:33.700 now as well. Some incredible cases that we take a deep dive into, like the Zodiac Killer,

01:34:39.360 the Golden State Killer, and more. So don't miss that. In the meantime, download The Megyn

01:34:44.700 Kelly Show on Apple, Pandora, Spotify, and Stitcher, wherever you get your podcasts for free.

01:34:49.860 Go ahead and follow us on youtube.com slash Megyn Kelly, where you can see the little tomboy

01:34:55.340 me on the tire swing, all girl. Good times. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:35:02.780 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - June 13, 2022

Media's Trump Obsession, and Amber Heard Blames Social Media, with Dave Rubin, Emily Jashinsky, and Eliana Johnson ｜ Ep. 341

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