The Megyn Kelly Show - Meghan Markle's Rise and Lies, and Stacey Abrams' Vulnerabilities, with Mike Rowe and Greg Bluestein

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00:00:31.140 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.500 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:46.000 The many lies of Meghan Markle.

00:00:48.640 That is the subject of today's Talking Points.

00:00:52.200 Meghan Markle lies regularly, more than most people, about a lot.

00:00:56.560 Yes, you can go back to the Oprah interview for many examples.

00:00:59.940 She and Harry secretly married three days before their actual wedding.

00:01:03.860 No.

00:01:04.680 Her baby wasn't going to be a prince because of his race.

00:01:07.280 No.

00:01:08.320 She had her passport taken away by the palace.

00:01:10.540 False.

00:01:11.640 Palace HR dismissed her suicidal pleas for help.

00:01:14.700 On and on and on it goes.

00:01:17.980 Remember how she swore she had absolutely no contact with the writers of that fawning book,

00:01:23.400 Finding Freedom, about Mexit?

00:01:26.560 Compare those statements with her statements to the British courts, where she was forced

00:01:30.720 to admit to the judge that, whoops, she forgot she 100% was in contact with the authors of

00:01:38.700 Finding Freedom, a fact obvious to anyone who read that boot-looking embarrassment of a publication.

00:01:44.620 She lies so often she's had to hire a new publicity team now to help work on her image

00:01:50.400 and a fact checker for her Spotify podcast, which is rather amusing when you consider the falsehoods

00:01:58.160 broadcasts there so far have all been about her.

00:02:02.560 What's the fact checker going to do?

00:02:04.600 I'm sorry, madam.

00:02:06.340 It's appeared that you've lied about yourself again.

00:02:10.280 Best of luck to the fact checker working for the Duchess of Duplicity.

00:02:15.720 No, Duchess.

00:02:17.000 The South African actor in the British Lion King production did not tell you that he celebrated

00:02:21.840 your wedding with others in the streets in the way they celebrated Nelson Mandela being freed.

00:02:27.760 No, madam.

00:02:29.160 Your baby did not almost die in a fire while you were on an overseas trip.

00:02:33.460 There was some smoke from a heater and your son was nowhere near the room.

00:02:37.880 Markle's latest lie came from her podcast that she did with Paris Hilton yesterday.

00:02:43.400 It relates to Markle's time on the game show Deal or No Deal, back when she was about 25

00:02:48.060 years old and an aspiring actress in Hollywood.

00:02:51.080 Now, any normal person who was on that show and later married a prince would probably say,

00:02:57.540 oh, it was super fun and it opened up a lot of doors for me and I'm very grateful.

00:03:01.360 Not Megan missed the Markle.

00:03:05.020 Now that she's in her $15 million mansion in Montecito, which, despite her claiming that

00:03:11.740 Harry saw the place and its intertwined palm trees out front and said to her,

00:03:16.820 they're us, my love.

00:03:18.920 Thus resulting in the purchase, the lovebirds have now reportedly decided is utterly insufficient

00:03:23.060 to their needs and they're getting a new one.

00:03:24.480 But anyway, now sitting with those palm trees blowing in the breeze in front of them with

00:03:28.920 the benefit, I guess, of 2020 hindsight, I suppose, she now sees her time on that show

00:03:33.440 as exploitative.

00:03:35.140 Specifically, she claims that she now objects to how she was objectified on the show.

00:03:41.380 Before the tapings of the show, all the girls, we would line up and there were different stations

00:03:46.540 for having your lashes put on or your extensions put in or the padding in your bra.

00:03:51.780 We were even given spray tan vouchers each week because there was a very cookie cutter idea

00:03:59.180 of precisely what we should look like.

00:04:02.080 It was solely about beauty and not necessarily about brains.

00:04:07.120 And when I look back at that time, I will never, oh, I'll never forget this one detail.

00:04:12.320 Because moments before we'd get on stage, there was a woman who ran the show and she would

00:04:18.960 be there backstage and I can still hear her.

00:04:23.080 She couldn't properly pronounce my last name at the time and I knew who she was talking to

00:04:29.580 because she would go, Markel, suck it in.

00:04:35.080 Markel, suck it in.

00:04:37.120 I was thankful for the job, but not for how it made me feel, which was not smart.

00:04:46.400 And by the way, I was surrounded by smart women on that stage with me, but that wasn't

00:04:53.560 the focus of why we were there.

00:04:56.040 And I would end up leaving with this pit in my stomach, knowing that I was so much more

00:05:01.500 than what was being objectified on the stage.

00:05:05.960 I didn't like feeling forced to be all looks and little substance.

00:05:11.240 Oh, my God.

00:05:14.620 So much to dissect here.

00:05:17.020 First, the laughable notion that she did not know what she was getting herself into when

00:05:21.640 she took a job in which one's only mission is to look tan, wear false eyelashes and wear

00:05:26.960 a skimpy, shiny dress while opening a suitcase as if she was shocked, shocked to find out that

00:05:32.100 suitcase number 24 did not actually have the nuclear codes in it, which needed her deciphering,

00:05:36.980 that she wasn't going to be discussing Alzheimer's and the chromosomal missegregation caused by

00:05:42.560 the amyloid beta peptide.

00:05:44.740 She knew exactly what she was getting herself into on that job.

00:05:48.360 And it was no surprise to her that they wanted her to look as good as possible while doing

00:05:53.340 it.

00:05:54.240 What she is trying to con us on now is whether she enjoyed it.

00:06:00.760 She loved every minute of it.

00:06:02.920 She wanted to be objectified.

00:06:05.260 She wanted the adulation, just like she still wants it to this day.

00:06:10.360 Miss I Just Want My Privacy now has a podcast, a Netflix show about her in production, a bio

00:06:16.380 coming out by her spouse that's about to hit the shelves.

00:06:18.980 She gave a lengthy interview to The Cut of New York magazine just the other week, worked

00:06:22.940 with the authors of that book, as I just mentioned, and just today was on the cover of Variety.

00:06:27.700 The Princess of Privacy is actually desperate, desperate for publicity to be noticed, to matter

00:06:34.120 in a way she never did while suitcase girl number 24 or while acting on the cable show

00:06:40.320 suits.

00:06:40.920 And the way you know, the way you know she never really minded, the objectification that

00:06:47.260 now makes her such a victim is by what she did after Deal or No Deal.

00:06:51.640 In her podcast, she stoically says, I quit after a year.

00:06:57.540 Things were so rough.

00:06:59.320 All the opening and closing and opening and closing.

00:07:02.660 Sometimes the little suitcase latch must have gotten stuck.

00:07:05.180 Can you imagine?

00:07:06.620 Mike Rowe is coming up in a minute.

00:07:07.860 Talk about dirty jobs, the horror this poor woman suffered as they put the mascara on

00:07:13.140 her.

00:07:15.060 Anyway, what did she do after she fled this horrible, objectifying job?

00:07:20.180 Did she run for Senate, go to law school, volunteer at a senior citizen facility?

00:07:24.820 No.

00:07:25.800 She started a website in which she posted half naked pictures of herself to celebrate her

00:07:31.080 before then going to work on suits in which she regularly appeared in her underwear.

00:07:37.720 Was that objectification?

00:07:39.840 Maybe it's only objectification like if you're carrying a suitcase.

00:07:44.000 Flight attendants of the world, beware.

00:07:46.380 Suitcase in hand and approving looks come your way.

00:07:48.920 Bimbo, slut.

00:07:50.260 Once you stow the bag, hike the skirt and enjoy the leering.

00:07:52.980 Why is she lying about this?

00:07:55.920 Why?

00:07:56.720 Why can't she just say, I'm so grateful to those producers who helped make me look amazing

00:08:01.460 night after night and gave me my start in acting?

00:08:05.100 Because it's more important to her to be a victim.

00:08:09.340 The same theme of every single one of her podcasts and of her life.

00:08:13.660 Find successful, empowered women, reduce them to their lowest moments, and then claim to

00:08:19.260 have taught a lesson about how terrible and especially sexist America is.

00:08:25.380 See, I can relate too, because the evil woman at Deal or No Deal told me to suck my stomach

00:08:30.240 in.

00:08:31.260 The job was to be a model.

00:08:34.200 If you don't want to be told to suck in your stomach at the office, go work at a bank.

00:08:39.240 Get a law degree.

00:08:40.620 Do something else, but don't join the beauty business.

00:08:43.660 And then claim you were exploited by people who didn't care for your thoughts on inflation.

00:08:50.440 It's the same thing she did to the royal family.

00:08:53.520 Same thing.

00:08:54.920 Sign up for a job you know damn well is going to require certain things of you.

00:08:58.220 And then play the victim when they do require those things.

00:09:01.600 I had to walk behind Kate.

00:09:04.120 I lost my voice.

00:09:06.520 In both cases, she knew exactly what she was getting herself into.

00:09:09.420 But rather than just be honest about it, she's always morally superior.

00:09:15.380 This is one of the most privileged women on the planet.

00:09:18.900 She was building a career as an actress.

00:09:20.580 It was a middling career, but she was getting a steady paycheck.

00:09:23.860 She seemed to be enjoying it.

00:09:25.680 She then set her sights on several rich, famous British men to marry as a means of taking her

00:09:31.500 D-list fame to the next level.

00:09:33.280 They all rejected her.

00:09:34.780 This is all laid out in Tom Bauer's book, Revenge and other books.

00:09:38.820 Then she landed the motherlode, Prince Harry.

00:09:41.600 She moved onto the palace grounds, was given a staff and security.

00:09:45.620 She wore crown jewels at her wedding, at which George Clooney and Oprah Winfrey and the Queen

00:09:50.920 sat supportively looking at her.

00:09:54.260 And she still, still wants to play the poor me card.

00:09:58.700 The royal family was racist toward me.

00:10:02.000 Mariah Carey called me a diva.

00:10:03.960 Me!

00:10:04.620 I was treated like a bimbo by deal or no deal.

00:10:07.220 You see, I can still be your embattled survivor.

00:10:11.540 A feminist icon.

00:10:13.400 A triumphant queen.

00:10:16.360 Except she's not.

00:10:18.000 And she knows she's not.

00:10:20.000 She's not special.

00:10:22.380 She's not a feminist icon.

00:10:25.020 She gave up everything for a man.

00:10:28.700 Her country, her religion, her career, her family, her friends.

00:10:33.700 She did it because she's a social climber.

00:10:36.800 That was more important to her.

00:10:39.140 And when she was outed for the conniving, manipulative, empty suit she is, she lashed out,

00:10:45.960 claimed she wanted privacy, and moved to Montecito, dragging the prince out of the royal family with her.

00:10:52.780 This woman is a fraud.

00:10:54.560 And people get it.

00:10:55.680 A poll this past summer showed the majority of Americans now disapprove of Meghan Markle.

00:11:01.260 Another poll showed just 26% of Brits approve of her.

00:11:06.800 It's not something a new publicity team can solve, nor can any fact checker.

00:11:12.400 Only Meghan Markle can solve it.

00:11:14.560 Stop the nonsense.

00:11:17.520 Stop with the obsessive image crafting.

00:11:21.020 We don't feel sorry for you.

00:11:23.900 Take a step back.

00:11:25.980 Be quiet for a while.

00:11:29.240 And do something meaningful that is not about you.

00:11:33.000 Then, maybe we will feel inspired to do something other than mock you.

00:11:39.300 CanadaLife.com

00:12:05.760 Mike Rowe is an executive producer and an Emmy Award-winning host.

00:12:19.320 So happy to have him back on the program.

00:12:21.700 Mike Rowe, welcome back.

00:12:23.160 Meghan, that was awesome.

00:12:24.980 I'm just sitting here wondering if you have any thoughts on Meghan Markle.

00:12:30.520 You are the perfect guest out of this segment.

00:12:35.040 I, you've spent your life immersing yourself in, quote, dirty jobs and amongst the great Americans who happily, willingly, patriotically perform them.

00:12:49.040 And with nary a complaint, usually, about having to do them.

00:12:54.360 This woman is on television back in these tough, tough 25-year-old days in front of millions of people, with people adorning her with accoutrements to make her look special and fabulous.

00:13:06.940 And even now as a princess, wants us to feel sorry for her.

00:13:11.380 You poor thing.

00:13:12.640 Oh, my God.

00:13:13.160 When you walk through a storm, keep your head held high.

00:13:17.900 I get it.

00:13:19.360 You know what?

00:13:20.060 You should have taken it one click further.

00:13:22.780 I mean, she's really close, I think, to seeing her name sort of turned into a verb.

00:13:28.700 And you could do it, right?

00:13:30.120 To commit a Markle, to be guilty of a Markle, right, needs to become something.

00:13:36.620 I don't know what exactly it is.

00:13:38.320 But, you know, in all seriousness, listening to you talk about her like that, I was struck by the one thing that 95% of all effective liars have in common is an audience who really wants to believe them.

00:13:57.460 And so, you know, I really, I don't know what to say in the wake of her ascendancy other than she was ordained.

00:14:10.360 You know, to some degree, she was ordained by George Clooney and Oprah Winfrey.

00:14:14.980 And to a larger extent, she was ordained by us.

00:14:18.700 We watched.

00:14:20.300 We looked.

00:14:21.380 We bared witness.

00:14:23.220 And now we're just wondering, what exactly did we witness?

00:14:29.140 Right, right.

00:14:29.780 What did we buy exactly?

00:14:31.440 What is it we signed on for?

00:14:34.320 You know, there was a moment where the Brits and we saw Meghan and Harry, and she seemed demure.

00:14:40.100 That was what she was playing.

00:14:41.480 She was projecting demure and the faithful partner.

00:14:44.720 And it was like, oh, that's so sweet.

00:14:45.980 Good for Harry.

00:14:46.840 You know, we all loved Harry.

00:14:48.380 It was like the forgotten heir or spare.

00:14:51.600 And then all hell broke loose.

00:14:53.880 You know, then like her incessant narcissism and need for attention and need to cause drama.

00:14:59.300 All of it started to manifest and people started to see the real her.

00:15:03.220 And I do wonder, like, I don't think anybody's really listening to the podcast.

00:15:07.320 People talk about how it's number one on Spotify.

00:15:08.860 That just shows the number of people who are signing up, like new people have clicked on it.

00:15:12.120 People like me who are just going to talk about it in the news.

00:15:15.860 I don't know who her fan base is.

00:15:18.300 But I do wonder what makes someone with all of her many gifts so in love with victimhood,

00:15:26.040 so adherent to it, so incapable of moving past it or just simply inventing it where it doesn't exist.

00:15:31.800 You know, I mean, I'm not a shrink, but if I were to put it on the couch, I would just say that for whatever reason,

00:15:40.960 the synapses fire in a sequence that allows that feeling to feel good.

00:15:47.640 It feels good.

00:15:49.440 You know, we can train ourselves to feel good about virtually any activity.

00:15:54.260 And you mentioned dirty jobs, and that was a big lesson from that show.

00:15:58.880 You know, job satisfaction really doesn't have a whole lot to do with the job,

00:16:04.220 or at least not nearly as much as we ascribe to it.

00:16:08.440 People can be miserable in any line of work.

00:16:11.300 People can be happy in any line of work.

00:16:13.920 And the amount of grace you find in a septic tank technician is really no different than the amount

00:16:24.040 of grace you might find with any given celebrity or any given royal or any given politician.

00:16:30.400 We have it within our purview to control that which makes us happy.

00:16:37.340 And a lot of people feel happy when not just when the light is shown on them.

00:16:43.000 It's not just narcissism, although that's certainly a thing.

00:16:46.260 It's a combination of narcissism and victimhood.

00:16:52.380 And I think just the speed with which the cycle unfolds.

00:16:59.480 Every day, we need to see something new every day.

00:17:03.020 And she serves it up.

00:17:04.620 You know, she's part of the cobble that serves up that stuff on the menu that, you know,

00:17:11.360 some people find appetizing.

00:17:13.240 But what can you say?

00:17:14.200 There's no accounting for taste.

00:17:15.620 There are plenty of people out there who can't believe dirty jobs has been on the air for 20 years.

00:17:19.860 And some days I'm among them, too.

00:17:22.320 But I know if I said to you, Mike, give me your top five.

00:17:25.680 Just give me you give me five at the top of your head.

00:17:27.220 I'm sure.

00:17:28.080 Five guys doing jobs that, you know, aren't necessarily doing a podcast from a palace out in

00:17:35.180 Montecito, who have had to overcome a lot in their lives and have an attitude of being

00:17:41.780 grateful, of being glad to be here, being thankful for the opportunity.

00:17:47.040 You could do it in a second, in a second.

00:17:48.960 Right.

00:17:49.120 It's like that's what's inspirational to Americans.

00:17:52.840 That's what people get moved by.

00:17:55.060 Well, a lot do.

00:17:58.220 Right.

00:17:58.660 But look, here's the trap for for you and me and everybody in a position that has some

00:18:05.880 kind of platform and has some measure of of influence.

00:18:09.400 It's it's so tempting to paint with a broad brush.

00:18:13.960 Right.

00:18:14.760 It's so tempting to to make a proclamation.

00:18:17.540 I if I've learned anything at this point in my life, it's that two, three, sometimes four

00:18:24.540 things are all true at the same time.

00:18:27.480 And.

00:18:29.000 The fact is, there are many people in this country who are still inspired by an attitude

00:18:34.000 of gratitude, and there are many people in this country who are inspired by other

00:18:38.520 attitudes, and so I never really know who's listening.

00:18:42.240 I'm rarely sure exactly to whom I'm speaking, but you and I are on the same page.

00:18:49.200 My foundation awards work ethic scholarships.

00:18:52.180 I have a 12 point sweat pledge that you have to sign in order to apply for for money to be

00:18:59.620 to be trained.

00:19:00.680 And the very first tenant on that sweat pledge says.

00:19:06.040 I believe I have hit the greatest lottery of all time.

00:19:09.880 I live in the United States.

00:19:13.560 I am free.

00:19:15.480 I am grateful above all things.

00:19:19.080 And if you if you can't agree to that, then I personally can't can't help you.

00:19:26.980 And I right.

00:19:28.380 You know, we talked about this two years ago.

00:19:30.120 I get in arguments every year.

00:19:32.120 Parents usually call and say, wait a minute.

00:19:33.720 Why does my kid have to sign this thing in order to get a scholarship from your foundation?

00:19:37.280 And I said, because I said so.

00:19:39.640 And they said, well, what do you mean?

00:19:40.640 Because you said so.

00:19:41.520 And I'm like, look, no harm, no foul.

00:19:43.700 It's just that if your kid's not grateful, if your kid isn't interested in having a conversation

00:19:48.040 about basic work ethic, delayed gratification, a decent attitude, then, madam, this particular

00:19:53.920 pile of free money is probably not for you.

00:19:56.720 Right.

00:19:57.040 But that's all there is to it.

00:19:58.980 No harm, no foul.

00:19:59.900 Move on.

00:20:00.720 You don't need me in your life.

00:20:02.080 No, no worries at all.

00:20:03.120 I have to say, it's like that the the her pretending that, oh, my God, this job is solely about

00:20:13.460 beauty.

00:20:15.140 It's like so false.

00:20:17.540 Like, it's like Christy Turlington in Victoria's Secret.

00:20:23.020 Like, oh, my God, I'm just now realizing they want to look at my body.

00:20:27.620 Like, what is she talking about?

00:20:29.340 But I guess, you know, you you want to eat your cake and you still want to have it.

00:20:35.020 You want to be able to elevate certain principles, certain certain virtues.

00:20:41.340 But at the same time, you you want to embrace certain vices.

00:20:45.540 You know, it's it's part of the human condition.

00:20:48.240 You know, I actually don't think virtue and vice are are as opposite as we think.

00:20:53.540 You know, I think the two sides of the same coin.

00:20:55.580 Right.

00:20:55.780 And nor is there any shame in being a model or being in the beauty business, like doing

00:21:00.320 something that, you know, self-promotional in that way or, you know, where you're open

00:21:04.200 about wanting people to look at you for a living.

00:21:06.800 I look at most of these models and I'm like, if I look like that, I'd want people to pay

00:21:09.640 to look at me, too.

00:21:11.420 I did the same thing, but in opposite, Phil, like the first season of Dirty Jobs 20 years

00:21:17.400 ago, we labeled feces from every species because we went through this giant scatological romp

00:21:24.780 where I was just literally either crawling through a sewer or in a septic tank or covered

00:21:30.780 with some matter of effluvium.

00:21:33.560 And, you know, people were like, gosh, this is so exploitative.

00:21:38.200 I'm like, what are you talking about exploitative?

00:21:39.660 You're like, well, it's just I mean, you just seem obsessed with this one thing.

00:21:42.880 I'm like, well, you're watching, right?

00:21:45.900 Millions and millions of people are watching a B-list celebrity crawl through a river of

00:21:50.360 crap with a guy who makes his living in that very river.

00:21:54.080 And we're learning some things about who this guy is and what's important to him.

00:21:57.960 And we're learning about his job.

00:21:59.640 But, you know, I did what I had to do in that first season.

00:22:03.500 I had to embrace something that, frankly, was the opposite of fashion, but it was still a

00:22:11.060 construct.

00:22:11.580 It was still a thing.

00:22:14.640 And on Dirty Jot, you know, by the time we got to season two, feces from every species

00:22:19.360 gave way to this incredible obsession with animal husbandry, wherein I coaxed the sperm

00:22:27.520 from virtually all creatures, great and small, and then artificially inseminated them on camera.

00:22:34.020 And this, you know, horrified people.

00:22:36.660 It's like some sort of a germ.

00:22:37.500 Should we pause at coaxed the sperm from all the species?

00:22:42.600 You know, Megan, we all have to approach the task in our own way.

00:22:48.480 I like to think of it as coaxing, you know, didn't always work.

00:22:52.340 Sometimes you have to light a candle.

00:22:54.160 Sometimes you have to tell them a story.

00:22:57.920 How high do you have to pull the dress up there, Mike?

00:23:00.380 You know, look, you do what you have to do.

00:23:02.160 Sometimes you have to show a little leg, right?

00:23:04.420 Sometimes you do.

00:23:05.940 Yeah.

00:23:06.440 But it's, you know, our industry, we all have to decide what's authentic.

00:23:13.060 We all have to decide what we're selling, right?

00:23:17.240 And if we can at least latch on to something that's steadfast, something that we know is

00:23:25.060 going to be, like you said, gratitude, that will come in and out of favor, but we're going

00:23:31.740 to live long enough to see it come back into favor.

00:23:34.660 I'm sure of it.

00:23:36.680 Fashion has its moments.

00:23:39.160 Victimhood is having a pretty good run right now.

00:23:43.360 Narcissism, you know, right there, neck and neck with it.

00:23:46.480 So all these things, I think, are constantly at war, right?

00:23:52.880 They're always out there and society is always free to glom on to this, that, or the other.

00:23:59.780 And we're just in a time right now where there's a lot of gloaming, a lot of coaxing, as you

00:24:05.000 would say.

00:24:05.580 Many people committing Markles right and left.

00:24:08.760 Yeah.

00:24:09.100 Markle to Markle, to be a Markle or to Markle someone.

00:24:12.780 Like, he pulled a Markle, is from the height of privilege to claim victimhood.

00:24:18.100 That's what it is.

00:24:19.160 It's done.

00:24:20.660 That smells like a Markle.

00:24:22.500 Do you smell that?

00:24:23.380 That was definitely season one, Dirty Jobs.

00:24:25.180 I smell a Markle.

00:24:26.080 Can I tell you?

00:24:26.880 I'm desperate to connect Meghan Markle with my stepfather.

00:24:30.800 My stepfather worked a dirty job for his entire life.

00:24:34.060 He was a plumber and he never graduated from high school, never mind go to college, but

00:24:39.540 he has more wisdom than Meghan Markle will ever have in the course of her, I hope, long

00:24:44.560 life.

00:24:46.280 And he, this is what I know he would tell her because he uses this line sometimes.

00:24:51.240 When you're born, God gives you a shit pie.

00:24:55.940 And every once in a while, you got to eat a piece of it.

00:24:59.100 All right, I need to talk to this guy.

00:25:03.080 I mean, I've been saying a version of that.

00:25:05.080 It's also in the sweat pledge.

00:25:06.880 Like life, you know, somebody is going to hand you a shit sandwich at some point, maybe

00:25:12.960 every day, maybe once a week, maybe once a month, whatever.

00:25:17.200 And when that happens, you're either going to bite it or you're going to go, ew, that's

00:25:21.260 not for me.

00:25:21.860 And that is going to inform a whole lot of things that happen in your life after that.

00:25:28.480 You know, there are people who still volunteer for every crappy job there is.

00:25:33.100 They come in early.

00:25:34.540 They stay light.

00:25:35.800 They stay late.

00:25:36.660 They take a bite of the poop sandwich when it's their turn.

00:25:39.940 Those people are having a pretty good run right now.

00:25:43.740 Those people are in demand like never before.

00:25:46.880 And I think it's because they are fewer than they've ever been in number.

00:25:54.220 You know, so again, you get to choose, you know, work ethic is important to me because

00:26:01.420 unlike your, you know, your, your eye color or your, your basic looks or your ethnicity

00:26:08.460 or your star sign or your blood type or any other thing, this is something you can control.

00:26:14.880 You can choose to be Megan Markle.

00:26:17.940 You can choose to be your dad or your stepdad or whoever you're talking about.

00:26:22.660 You can, you can make, these are conscious choices and they will inform everything that

00:26:29.480 happens to you.

00:26:31.140 They really will.

00:26:32.300 And they will predict what kind of life you have.

00:26:35.260 I mean, really, you can be somebody who's in the dirty job, who's literally surrounded in

00:26:40.260 shit for a living, who chooses to look on the bright side and find pearls of wisdom when

00:26:44.680 they come to you, or you can be somebody who's living in a palace and never learn anything.

00:26:49.580 All right, stand by.

00:26:50.460 The wonderful Mike Rowe is staying with us.

00:26:52.500 Very thrilled to have him for the show today.

00:26:55.380 Don't go away.

00:26:56.260 Plenty more pearls of wisdom coming your way.

00:26:57.920 Mike, one of my producers found this clip from your podcast and thought it was important,

00:27:11.100 especially given what was discussed in the A Block, that you and I spent some time on it.

00:27:15.960 That's the only intro I'm going to give to what we're about to listen to.

00:27:19.080 Here's Mike Rowe on his airplane bathroom story.

00:27:23.120 And I walk into the bathroom and I swear it looked like it looked like a crap balloon

00:27:30.900 had exploded.

00:27:32.500 This was shameful.

00:27:34.320 I mean, there was crap on the mirror.

00:27:36.440 How did this happen?

00:27:37.240 What, what happened?

00:27:38.460 You know, anyway, I'm standing appalled in this restroom in first class on this flight

00:27:46.360 to the point where I was like, obviously I'm not touching.

00:27:49.780 None of this is my problem.

00:27:51.580 What I should have done is immediately left, told the flight attendant that something criminal

00:27:57.080 had gone down at 37,000 feet.

00:28:00.920 All right.

00:28:01.180 In the first class.

00:28:02.160 A foul crime scene.

00:28:03.640 Yes, but I didn't.

00:28:05.580 Instead, I flushed the toilet.

00:28:07.220 There's toilet paper stuck to the back of the commode, partially used.

00:28:13.020 Okay.

00:28:13.420 Come on.

00:28:14.180 I swear.

00:28:15.020 It was awful, Chuck.

00:28:16.940 There's no need to.

00:28:17.740 Trust me.

00:28:18.400 It was awful.

00:28:19.360 Anyway.

00:28:21.580 I opened the door and standing there is one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen.

00:28:28.340 And two things happened.

00:28:29.520 Really three things happened.

00:28:31.000 The first thing is I think she recognized me.

00:28:34.320 I think she, or if she didn't recognize me, she knew that she had seen me somewhere before.

00:28:38.960 Right.

00:28:39.300 Gotcha.

00:28:39.560 So you see that look of, of, of acknowledgement and awareness splash across her face.

00:28:46.800 And it's a beautiful face.

00:28:47.940 Right.

00:28:48.720 And then she smiles as if to say, Hey, aren't you that guy?

00:28:53.820 Or no idea what she's in store for.

00:28:56.320 Just no idea.

00:28:57.560 The second thing that happens is the funk, the indescribable stench of that awful bathroom

00:29:04.560 comes wafting by me and hits her right smack in the right, right in the face.

00:29:09.980 So now she's got it on her lips too.

00:29:11.720 Right now she's dealing with this thing.

00:29:14.320 Right.

00:29:15.000 So that all happens in the same second.

00:29:17.340 So what's going through her brain?

00:29:19.120 Hey, I know that guy.

00:29:20.340 Oh my God.

00:29:21.120 That smells like the end of days.

00:29:22.940 And then, then, then the worst thing.

00:29:27.400 She cranes her head slightly to the right, just to look beyond me.

00:29:32.920 And she takes in everything I've just described.

00:29:40.440 That's horrifying.

00:29:42.540 Horrible.

00:29:43.520 I know it's so stupid, but we, we just, it was Thomas Crane.

00:29:47.340 It was Thomas Crane's birthday last month.

00:29:49.600 And the guy who many people believe invented the toilet, but actually didn't.

00:29:54.220 And to celebrate it, I read a story by David Sedaris called Big Boy about a giant turd that

00:30:00.820 he couldn't get down the toilet.

00:30:02.340 Very funny stories in a New Yorker decades ago.

00:30:05.060 And then I told this story that just happened to me a couple of months back.

00:30:08.800 And it's just, I mean, and I've gotten thousands, Megan, thousands of people writing in to tell

00:30:15.120 me about some misadventure in the bathroom, some horrible failure of the O-ring upon which

00:30:21.900 so much of our dignity depends.

00:30:24.320 Like every adult I know has a story about some time where they crap their pants.

00:30:28.140 And my story was just the unfairness of being able to deal with somebody else's nightmare

00:30:35.780 and suddenly having to take the blame.

00:30:38.200 This woman, by the way, she looked like one of the Wrigley's Doublemint twins.

00:30:41.920 Remember, Double Your Pleasure?

00:30:43.160 She was so pretty.

00:30:44.700 I just couldn't believe how pretty she was.

00:30:46.120 I'm sitting there looking at her and thinking, gosh, you're pretty.

00:30:48.680 And she's thinking, huh, I didn't think a man could make a stink like that and live.

00:30:54.600 Knowing full well that some son of a bitch, somebody in first class had gone in there

00:30:59.200 and done that.

00:31:00.940 And so the rest of the trip is really just about me looking around.

00:31:05.740 I understand.

00:31:07.200 Didn't you say to her before she walked in, beware, it's awful in there.

00:31:12.220 It wasn't me.

00:31:13.680 Yeah, but I was, forget it, Mae.

00:31:15.700 I mean, I tried, my last words to her when she looked over my shoulder and saw that crime

00:31:22.160 scene, I said, that wasn't me, right?

00:31:25.240 But you have to put, but if you put yourself in her place, she's standing outside of the

00:31:30.660 door.

00:31:31.080 She hears the toilet flush because like a dummy, I flush the toilet, but I don't clean

00:31:36.620 up the rest of the place and I can't get rid of the stink.

00:31:39.840 So, you know, if a guy opens the door and comes out of the bathroom, after you hear a flush,

00:31:45.040 you might assume, you know, that it's on head.

00:31:49.720 Here's the difference though.

00:31:50.500 Here's the difference between men and women.

00:31:52.500 Like men can, they can pee standing up.

00:31:55.380 So it's like you walk into that crime scene and you're like, I'm good.

00:31:58.340 I can aim it.

00:31:59.140 I don't really have to touch anything in here.

00:32:00.980 I'll use my hand sanitizer and get back to my seat.

00:32:03.380 A woman, it's like, especially on an airplane, you don't want to do the squat.

00:32:06.720 I don't like the squat anyway.

00:32:07.700 The squat ruins the toilet seat for the rest of us.

00:32:09.700 It gets the pee all over there.

00:32:11.020 I've been sitting on toilet seats my whole life, even public toilet seats.

00:32:14.620 I've never gotten any weird diseases.

00:32:16.720 So I'm just saying it's safe and you won't fall.

00:32:20.180 You don't fall in the toilet.

00:32:21.180 You don't fall on somebody else's pee.

00:32:22.480 Sit on the seat, but clean the seat first.

00:32:24.600 But anyway, that's not an option for somebody like me.

00:32:28.180 So somebody like you can stand and aim somebody like me.

00:32:30.460 I got to clean it up.

00:32:31.380 I got no choice.

00:32:32.260 I go into a situation like that.

00:32:34.480 You know, I had a flight attendant tell me, it's like, the reason we put this thing on

00:32:39.920 during turbulence isn't really because it's dangerous.

00:32:42.820 It's because men who go into the restroom during turbulence don't don't have a hope.

00:32:49.020 I mean, you're standing there like you're standing there and it's just like a shotgun.

00:32:55.160 It's going everywhere.

00:32:56.260 And guys, they just, you know, look, that actually makes sense.

00:32:59.960 It's like a like a weapon in there, like a fire hose.

00:33:02.280 If we get a little turbulent, at least we we're safe.

00:33:04.700 We know exactly where it's going to go.

00:33:06.220 There's no real risk if you're sitting.

00:33:08.060 You're anchored.

00:33:09.640 It'd be a good rule.

00:33:11.060 Actually, everybody should be forced to sit when they're taking care of business at 37.

00:33:16.620 You were also talking.

00:33:17.940 Forgive me for staying on the toilet.

00:33:19.220 Humor was just so dead on.

00:33:20.960 You were also talking about how on the airplane, when somebody lets out some gas bomb and then

00:33:26.200 this the suspects start to get identified, like you look around like who looks like slightly

00:33:31.420 uncomfortable, whose stomach is rowling, you know?

00:33:34.920 Right.

00:33:35.100 It's like an elevator, only worse.

00:33:37.580 You're, you know, because you're just you're just completely at the mercy of your circumstance.

00:33:42.100 I'll tell you what a child I am about this.

00:33:44.700 Again, this is like the early seasons of Dirty Job.

00:33:47.360 This is where my mind was.

00:33:48.860 I found.

00:33:50.180 Have you seen those little fart machines?

00:33:52.520 Like you can press a button.

00:33:54.020 Three children.

00:33:54.580 OK, including two boys.

00:33:56.400 All right.

00:33:56.880 Well, somebody had come out with one that was really portable and had a pretty good range on it.

00:34:02.420 So it's a little Velcro behind it.

00:34:04.940 So what I did was I can't believe I'm telling you this.

00:34:08.440 I'm on a flight coming back, I think, from Cleveland and I stuck it under seat to a I just stuck it under there.

00:34:16.940 And I'm sitting back in like 5D.

00:34:20.120 OK.

00:34:20.600 And I've got the remote.

00:34:23.480 This guy sits down in 2A.

00:34:27.040 And I wait until we're, you know, we're at altitude and everybody's kind of settled in.

00:34:31.620 And I hit the little button on the remote.

00:34:33.140 And this thing goes and everybody snaps their head around and looks at this poor guy.

00:34:39.060 He's looking around going, hey, hey, I don't, you know.

00:34:42.620 And I just for whatever reason, I just tortured him the whole flight.

00:34:46.280 Every 10 or 15 minutes, I hit that button.

00:34:49.600 Eventually, he just got up and moved.

00:34:51.880 I was going to say, you'd have to stand up and be like, somebody's messing with me.

00:34:56.020 But you can't.

00:34:56.900 Nobody's going to believe you.

00:34:58.620 No.

00:34:59.060 Right.

00:34:59.280 And you're not thinking someone put an imaginary fart machine underneath my remote control fart machine.

00:35:04.780 I don't know.

00:35:05.180 Who would do that?

00:35:05.480 It's really not Mike Rowe sitting back.

00:35:07.180 Oh, wait a minute.

00:35:08.120 Wait a minute.

00:35:08.620 I got it.

00:35:09.840 That's the Markle.

00:35:12.580 That's the Markle?

00:35:14.060 That's the Markle is the thing that happened.

00:35:17.060 It doesn't make any sense, but it's just a funny thing to describe.

00:35:19.900 If you get blamed for somebody else's mess, then somebody just tagged you with a Markle.

00:35:27.880 He pulled a, more like a Farkle.

00:35:30.720 Let me tell you this.

00:35:31.980 So we have a friend of the family who we know from the beach, and she's older now.

00:35:36.360 She's, I don't know.

00:35:37.560 I think she's in her early 80s.

00:35:39.340 But she's always been one of those prim and proper ladies, like just together.

00:35:43.760 You know, she's always got the perfect sweater set on.

00:35:45.620 She's beautiful.

00:35:46.580 She's fit.

00:35:48.240 And I think this is more when she was in her, like, maybe mid-70s.

00:35:51.580 But she went on an airplane, and the woman next to her kept blowing off.

00:35:56.580 That's what Nana used to call it, my Nana.

00:35:58.160 He'd be blowing off.

00:35:59.560 And so she presses the overhead call button.

00:36:04.940 The flight attendant comes over, and our friend says, I'm sorry, but you're going to have to move me.

00:36:10.160 This woman here has terrible flatulence.

00:36:12.060 Oh, my gosh.

00:36:16.520 I mean, that's a boss move.

00:36:19.120 That is.

00:36:19.560 That is a boss.

00:36:20.920 Yeah.

00:36:22.180 Yeah, look.

00:36:22.940 How do you respond?

00:36:24.480 What do you say if you're the accused?

00:36:27.600 Yeah, I mean, and what do you do if you're just one of the people in the kill zone, like in proximity?

00:36:33.320 Like, do you raise your hand and go, you know what?

00:36:35.100 I'd like to be moved, too.

00:36:36.940 And you know what?

00:36:39.320 I'd like to move, too, please.

00:36:40.760 And then, just like that, first class is empty.

00:36:45.500 Don't leave me.

00:36:47.180 Don't leave me here.

00:36:49.360 And then there's the one person going, I'm fine.

00:36:51.760 I'm fine.

00:36:52.420 I don't care.

00:36:52.720 No, I'm good.

00:36:53.460 You know what?

00:36:53.780 I like it.

00:36:57.720 Keeping it real up here.

00:37:00.100 Oh, my God.

00:37:00.700 Never in my life.

00:37:01.620 I got one more funny story about this.

00:37:04.660 Back in my Fox News days, I was on the air.

00:37:07.200 I was anchoring America's Newsroom with Hammer.

00:37:09.140 And I know you were just on the show.

00:37:11.920 Now it's Dana Perino.

00:37:13.800 But Hammer and I launched that as a new show back in 1997.

00:37:17.460 First anchor gig ever.

00:37:19.680 And I was hosting a debate between like a right-wing radio host and a left-wing radio host.

00:37:25.080 And the righty was accusing the lefty of being soft on terror.

00:37:29.440 You know, this is, again, this is, yeah, wait, not 97, 2007.

00:37:35.720 Yeah, 97, where are you, 15?

00:37:37.380 Yeah, 97.

00:37:38.040 I was practicing law.

00:37:39.180 Anyway, so 2007 and the Iraq war is going on.

00:37:41.480 And the lefty was feeling defensive of the Democrats.

00:37:44.220 And we were about to go to break.

00:37:45.580 And he goes, we're going to fight the terrorists no matter where they are, no matter where they're farting.

00:37:49.940 Fighting.

00:37:50.760 Fighting.

00:37:51.040 Well, I, I died.

00:37:54.580 I died.

00:37:56.360 We had to go to break.

00:37:57.460 I couldn't get it back together.

00:37:59.320 And as soon as we go to break, my phone lights up.

00:38:02.580 And of course, it's my mom.

00:38:04.120 She can't even speak.

00:38:05.060 She's laughing so hard because we all have toilet humor in our family.

00:38:07.500 I always say I have a sense of humor of a 12-year-old boy.

00:38:09.980 Still at this age.

00:38:10.980 I still do.

00:38:11.540 I'm so glad I'm in such good company, Mike.

00:38:13.320 Do you think Dana Perino talks about this stuff?

00:38:17.180 Definitely not.

00:38:18.700 I don't think so.

00:38:19.760 I mean, Dana's one of the few people I can think of who probably really has never farted.

00:38:24.300 And if she has, I don't know that I really want to know about it.

00:38:28.100 She and Melania, the Trump claims she's never even gone.

00:38:31.820 Number two.

00:38:32.900 It's like, nope, didn't happen.

00:38:34.980 Got her her own bathroom.

00:38:36.440 And then she just doesn't do it.

00:38:37.540 I don't know.

00:38:37.880 She's this freak of nature.

00:38:39.620 Oh, my God.

00:38:40.380 Well, look, somewhere in here, if there's a shred of intellect we can glom onto to justify

00:38:46.680 this scatological dissent, you know, I mean, you know, for Meghan Markle to talk about the

00:38:53.560 indignity of being asked to suck in her gut versus being able to laugh hysterically about

00:38:59.240 the fact that all of us at some point in time are going to lose control over the one thing

00:39:04.380 we desperately want to control and we're going to have to pay the cost for it.

00:39:08.140 To be able to laugh, you know, I mean, that's the fundamental thing.

00:39:12.660 You can you can laugh at the fact that that somebody told you to suck in your gut or you

00:39:18.140 can complain about it.

00:39:19.460 You can laugh at the fact that you just walked into a bathroom at thirty seven thousand feet

00:39:24.580 that had been destroyed.

00:39:25.480 Not your fault, but you're still going to get tagged for it.

00:39:28.180 That's either, you know, in that moment, I'm either a victim and I did feel like one.

00:39:33.440 And I was like, yes, that this is not my problem.

00:39:36.960 Right.

00:39:37.600 And yet it was or or you can take the thirty seven thousand foot view, if you will, and

00:39:43.540 say, you know something that's freaking funny.

00:39:46.860 That's just funny.

00:39:48.280 That happens.

00:39:49.620 It happens all the time.

00:39:51.780 It's even funnier because you're famous.

00:39:53.600 I mean, it's even better that people know you.

00:39:55.620 And now, like, there are people who didn't hear your podcast.

00:39:58.640 They didn't hear this podcast.

00:39:59.620 They're out there at this moment being like, Mike Rowe dropped a bomb on my airplane in

00:40:04.040 first class.

00:40:04.500 It was disgusting.

00:40:05.720 The man, you know, he's been doing the dirty jobs too long.

00:40:08.680 Like he's decided to just immerse himself in dirt.

00:40:12.140 It was too perfect, Megan.

00:40:13.520 It was like of all.

00:40:14.600 It's not like Brad Pitt walked out of there or Tom Hanks, the dirty jobs guy, you know,

00:40:20.220 at the the guy known for feces from every species.

00:40:24.320 Of course, he smells like now you look hypocritical, too, because it's like get in there and clean

00:40:28.560 it.

00:40:28.740 For God's sake, you're always preaching to the rest of us.

00:40:31.340 What's the matter with you?

00:40:32.940 I don't know.

00:40:34.040 I've like I'm one of those people who I don't I don't like wipe down the whole airplane seat

00:40:39.380 when I sit on it.

00:40:40.240 You know, they're they're always giving you the wipes now when you get on the plane.

00:40:43.580 Maybe I should.

00:40:44.620 Maybe I should.

00:40:45.180 Because like that person came back to his or her seat and touched everything.

00:40:48.880 And then maybe I sat there and put my pretzels on it.

00:40:51.040 I don't know.

00:40:51.900 But I still kind of feel like the more eating off that toilet, Megan, than eating off the

00:40:57.180 tray at this.

00:40:58.080 Well, that's the thing.

00:40:59.100 But the more the more you ingest that's bad for you, the better off you are like your microbiome

00:41:03.940 and all that, which is this whole week.

00:41:05.200 We've been talking about eating shit and how it's the wave of the future.

00:41:07.880 There's going to be a pill where you eat somebody else's shit and it completely changes

00:41:12.600 your life for the better.

00:41:14.060 Don't try this at home.

00:41:15.300 I swear to God, I'm just thinking back 10 years ago.

00:41:21.600 I'm watching Fox.

00:41:22.680 I'm watching you on America's Newsroom.

00:41:24.920 This put together former lawyer sitting there in her Armani suit, reading the prompter, absolutely

00:41:30.420 killing it.

00:41:31.040 And now I'm talking to you and I'm actually worried where you're going to take the conversation

00:41:35.800 next.

00:41:36.440 I honestly don't know where we go.

00:41:37.840 I can't believe that Megyn Kelly, of all people, has literally dragged me through my

00:41:43.760 own lower GI tract.

00:41:45.720 Unbelievable.

00:41:46.020 Look at this beautiful work that my producer Kelly put together for us to discuss.

00:41:49.840 We completely blown it.

00:41:53.720 She literally wiped your own ass with Kelly's hard-fought notes.

00:41:59.520 She wants us to talk about student loans and the election and, oh, there's all sorts of

00:42:06.040 fun sots on here.

00:42:07.140 Oh, MSNBC, they compare January 6th to 9-11.

00:42:10.540 I actually do want to talk about those nimrods over there on MSNBC.

00:42:13.240 Let's go there.

00:42:14.420 We don't have to talk politics exactly.

00:42:16.320 But this comparison is beyond.

00:42:19.620 It's Nicole Wallace, fake Republican Nicole Wallace, SOT-10.

00:42:25.680 You know, that Mueller ethos emanated, I'm sure, from his own personal code, but also

00:42:30.560 post-9-11.

00:42:31.520 And I worked in the administration in which he served as FBI director.

00:42:34.900 And what he sort of gave birth to in the lexicon was the FBI would never again, first

00:42:41.160 of all, fail to sync up with the CIA and all sorts of artificial and real walls were

00:42:45.300 torn down.

00:42:45.840 And they would never again fail to connect the dots.

00:42:47.680 I've not heard one utterance of connecting the dots from Christopher Wray in the days

00:42:53.040 after the deadliest attack on the U.S. Capitol in our, you know, in history.

00:42:59.440 Nicole, I think that's right.

00:43:00.740 And I think if you look at the scale in terms of the threat to democracy, I mean, 9-11 was

00:43:05.200 a tragedy.

00:43:05.900 We lost thousands of lives in a horrific way.

00:43:09.100 We still mourn to this day.

00:43:10.400 But when you look at something that is an attack on democracy, something that could actually

00:43:15.580 bring about a fundamental change to American governance as we understand it, 9-11 is nothing

00:43:21.180 compared to January 6th.

00:43:22.840 And the fact that the FBI and the rest of the government, if they are not on the same

00:43:26.600 sort of war footing that we were on in the weeks and months and years after 9-11, shame

00:43:32.940 on everyone.

00:43:33.480 That was disgraced FBI agent Peter Strzok responding.

00:43:38.220 The worse.

00:43:39.080 It was worse than 9-11.

00:43:41.840 Worse of more of a threat to democracy.

00:43:44.200 Worse than the war of 1812 when the Capitol was, oh, what's the word?

00:43:47.780 Burned, I think.

00:43:49.600 Not to mention the FALN attack back in the late 70s, I think it was, where they attacked.

00:43:55.300 They actually shot five congressmen.

00:43:56.800 Worse than that?

00:43:57.300 OK.

00:43:57.480 Look, you know what, if we don't want to politicize it, then why don't we just return to the last

00:44:05.200 topic briefly?

00:44:06.100 And let me ask you this, because I got, somebody asked me this question the other day, and I

00:44:09.980 loved it.

00:44:10.540 They said, if you could have any power, like a superhero, what would it be?

00:44:15.360 And I said, I would like to be able to know that when I'm watching television, that with

00:44:20.780 a flick of my fingers or a wiggle of my nose, like Elizabeth Montgomery on Bewitched, right?

00:44:26.340 I would like to be able to make anybody I'm watching at any time poop their pants.

00:44:32.200 That's my superpower.

00:44:33.840 And as I was sitting there watching that clip that you played, I thought that'd be a great

00:44:38.920 time.

00:44:39.420 Right in the middle of such an outrageous statement, I just kind of give my nose a wrinkle, and

00:44:45.260 Peter Strzok poops his pants on live TV.

00:44:47.860 And he has to deal with it, right?

00:44:50.480 He has to stand there as he's saying this ridiculous thing, and his trousers fill up with

00:44:55.220 his own scat.

00:44:56.720 He has to deal with it.

00:44:57.820 And everybody around him gets to smell it, too.

00:45:00.380 And the other one over there that was asking the question, she, too.

00:45:03.240 She poops right up her back, right as she's asking the question.

00:45:06.620 That's my superpower.

00:45:08.040 I sit at home, and I watch TV, and when I hear stuff like that, I wiggle my nose, and

00:45:12.840 people poop their pants.

00:45:13.960 I honestly think word would spread that, you know, something's going on in the universe,

00:45:25.180 people.

00:45:25.900 And when we say stupid things on the air, and when we lie, we poop our pants.

00:45:30.700 We don't know why it's happening.

00:45:32.620 But, you know, a theory starts to emerge that the Dirty Jobs guy is sitting home with this

00:45:36.360 new superpower, and he's wielding it like an axe.

00:45:39.760 And it's horrifying.

00:45:42.880 That's the last thing you want, is to find out that Mike Rowe is a fan of your show.

00:45:46.960 I'm watching.

00:45:48.060 I'm watching.

00:45:49.080 And, you know, I have a finely tuned BS meter, and if I hear something that doesn't line up,

00:45:52.880 things are going to get real poopy real fast, Megan.

00:45:56.080 I'd rather see the shit coming out of his bottom than out of his mouth the way he had to there.

00:46:01.980 It's constant.

00:46:02.760 Just imagine during sweeps.

00:46:04.300 How much fun this would be during sweeps.

00:46:06.200 Oh, my God.

00:46:07.140 I have to say, I am sick of people making that comparison.

00:46:13.840 It really is shit.

00:46:15.240 I'm sick of people.

00:46:16.200 But just don't use 9-11.

00:46:17.440 Just stop it.

00:46:18.120 You know, the way we kind of have a rule in journalism, don't use the Holocaust.

00:46:21.680 You know, like, don't compare this to the Holocaust.

00:46:23.920 I actually had this discussion with my EP, Steve Krakauer, because we were talking about

00:46:26.860 Mark Cuban and how he was blowing off the Uyghur genocide over in China.

00:46:32.480 He has no problem with, you know, doing business with China.

00:46:35.200 And I was having this discussion with Steve about, like, does he care about the Holocaust?

00:46:40.240 And there's just kind of a rule in journalism.

00:46:42.240 Just don't compare anything to the Holocaust, period.

00:46:44.660 Same thing with 9-11, as far as I'm concerned.

00:46:46.280 Just stop.

00:46:47.020 You don't compare.

00:46:47.740 Don't compare January 6th.

00:46:48.920 Don't compare anything.

00:46:50.060 It's still too soon, right?

00:46:52.260 We've got 3,000 dead Americans, children, innocents.

00:46:55.480 We all lived through it.

00:46:56.900 You know, there's only the youngest amongst us has no active memory of this.

00:47:01.380 So just stop it.

00:47:02.920 It's what I said before.

00:47:04.360 It's you don't know who's listening, right?

00:47:07.260 It's really easy for you and me to have whatever conversation we want to have.

00:47:10.800 And because we both kind of, you know, enjoy what we're doing, it gets smaller and smaller.

00:47:15.720 It's easy to forget who's listening.

00:47:17.280 And I remember about, this would have been 2006, probably, I was sitting around a campfire

00:47:26.540 with a bunch of people and we were arguing about 9-11.

00:47:30.880 We were arguing about something, something to do, probably some crazy conspiracy nonsense,

00:47:35.400 right?

00:47:36.140 And everybody had their own say and things got really heated.

00:47:41.180 And then one of the guys who was sitting there, who I had just met a couple of nights

00:47:45.300 ago, said, well, my wife was on flight 93.

00:47:49.920 And let me tell you what I think.

00:47:52.080 And in that moment, everything changes.

00:47:55.140 The conversation changes.

00:47:56.520 The tenor and tone changes.

00:47:58.120 The air is sucked out of the space.

00:48:00.000 And we all feel like idiots because our opinions are garbage compared to the man whose wife was

00:48:07.820 on one of those planes.

00:48:09.840 You know, I don't think either one of these clowns were thinking, who's watching?

00:48:14.040 Who's listening?

00:48:15.360 Who was there?

00:48:17.340 You gave me the chills with that.

00:48:19.740 Well said.

00:48:20.940 All right.

00:48:21.360 Much more to go over with Mike Rowe.

00:48:22.840 We're going to get to Kelly's outline because we love Kelly.

00:48:25.060 It's just sad.

00:48:26.060 Kelly's also in Canada.

00:48:26.980 She's up there with Canadian Debbie.

00:48:28.260 She also married a damn Canadian.

00:48:30.140 Moved away.

00:48:30.780 These are my friends and longtime colleagues from Fox News who I just can't let go of,

00:48:35.140 even if they move to another country.

00:48:36.640 So we'll get to Kelly's good work next and talk more with Mike Rowe as he stays with us

00:48:41.100 for another block.

00:48:41.680 And remember, folks, you can find The Megyn Kelly Show live on Sirius XM Triumph channel

00:48:46.740 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:48:48.740 The full video show and clips by subscribing to our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Megyn

00:48:52.600 Kelly, or the audio podcast is available on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher, or wherever

00:48:59.000 you get your podcast for free.

00:49:00.840 And there you'll find our full archives, including the first time Mike was on, as he mentioned,

00:49:06.300 episode 45, way back in January of 2021.

00:49:11.360 This is before we had video.

00:49:13.180 We had a great, great conversation.

00:49:16.140 And I just fell in love with the guy.

00:49:17.900 You can see why.

00:49:18.680 I mean, I don't I don't think I can do a better hour of programming than the one we just did.

00:49:22.540 We covered everything.

00:49:23.580 The Markle, the shit pie, the magical shitting power you can unleash on your enemies.

00:49:33.620 Would love to know your thoughts on all of it.

00:49:35.320 You can email me now, Megan, M-E-G-Y-N, at Megan Kelly dot com.

00:49:45.980 Something you said on Hannity recently jumped out at me, Mike, because you were talking about

00:49:51.360 the importance of blue collar workers and how, you know, we sort of enjoy the fruits of

00:49:56.420 their labor without understanding all that's gone into this thing that we wind up enjoying.

00:50:02.420 And it reminded me of something I mentioned, my Nana in the first hour, she lived to 101.

00:50:09.000 She died in 2016 and she was born in 1915 and she was poor and she remembered the day they

00:50:16.080 got electricity.

00:50:17.940 She remembered sitting there next to the light switch, turning it on and off and on and off

00:50:23.140 and saying, it's a miracle.

00:50:25.800 It's a miracle.

00:50:26.640 And her father said, that costs money.

00:50:31.780 Stop that.

00:50:32.440 Like he's saying to the kids, what are you doing?

00:50:34.660 But you've been kind of making that point.

00:50:36.680 Like we do sort of take advantage, whether it's the phone or the light switch or turning

00:50:41.960 on the automobile of these these jobs that that all the jobs that led into that moment

00:50:48.060 for us.

00:50:48.540 We kind of forget about the importance of these blue collar workers at our own peril.

00:50:52.640 Yeah, it's a curious flaw in our well, it's a fault in the stars, right?

00:50:59.940 This this this way that we grow to resent the very thing we depend on.

00:51:05.700 And I think it's because it scares us.

00:51:08.120 I think because when we flip on the switch and the lights don't come on, we don't know

00:51:12.860 what to do.

00:51:13.780 You know, when I hop onto the Zoom call to do the interview with Megan, but the connection

00:51:19.060 is weak.

00:51:19.740 I don't know how to fix it when I when I flush the toilet.

00:51:23.380 But the crap doesn't go away like it's supposed to.

00:51:25.880 I you know, I'm at the mercy of the plumber.

00:51:28.680 And right now, Megan, a plumber can't get out here for three or four days.

00:51:33.060 That's that's how lopsided the workforce is.

00:51:36.020 And that's why this issue really matters.

00:51:38.780 It's not a question of, oh, the poor employees or the poor employers.

00:51:43.640 Right.

00:51:44.180 Where this thing always gets ground down into some kind of labor dispute.

00:51:48.840 My point has always been what what's happening in the country is 300 million people or so

00:51:55.680 are no longer sufficiently gobsmacked by the miracles that surround us.

00:52:00.700 Like your Nana, we've we've lost our wonder for these things we rely upon.

00:52:07.020 And that makes us anxious.

00:52:08.520 And that anxiety leads us to actually devalue and sometimes resent the very people upon whom

00:52:17.520 we rely.

00:52:18.360 And so it's a weird circle.

00:52:20.580 And you can see how it plays out in policy.

00:52:23.060 You can see, for instance, that shop class was removed from high school, just out and out

00:52:29.280 removed in the 70s and 80s.

00:52:31.360 It's not a coincidence today that those vocations are the very jobs currently lacking in the

00:52:38.900 market, nor is it a coincidence, in my opinion, that student debt is now at one point seven

00:52:44.320 trillion dollars.

00:52:45.340 We're still telling a whole generation of kids that they're screwed if they don't go get

00:52:50.940 their four year paper.

00:52:52.040 In the meantime, and this is my my new thing, it's not a new thing, but I'm really I'm obsessed

00:52:59.640 not with the unemployment rate, but with the labor participation rate.

00:53:03.080 And the thing I was talking to Hannity about was the same thing I talked to Nick Eberstadt

00:53:07.260 about who came on my podcast just last week to talk about the existence of 11 million jobs

00:53:13.480 that virtually nobody wants juxtaposed with seven million able bodied men between the

00:53:21.500 ages of 25 and 54, who are not only not working, that's not the problem.

00:53:27.320 They are affirmatively not looking for jobs.

00:53:31.900 So you push all of that together.

00:53:34.300 It really does make for a very disappointing kind of bully base.

00:53:38.760 Right.

00:53:39.160 And I'm not sure precisely what it says about our country, but you're now it was on to something

00:53:43.040 as a people were either impressed and gobsmacked by the miracles around us or we're bored.

00:53:49.780 We are so materialistic now that we hold up the college degree and whatever white collar

00:53:56.420 job might come after it as the holy grail.

00:53:59.140 You know, you could you could be a hedge fund manager and make.

00:54:03.080 Sixty million dollars a year, easily hundred million dollars a year, you could it's happening

00:54:07.460 even right now and then you'll be successful.

00:54:10.980 You know, Kanye West was giving an interview, one of his, you know, many the other day, and

00:54:15.640 he was like, why didn't you introduce me as a billionaire?

00:54:18.120 I'm a billionaire.

00:54:19.100 I want to be introduced as a billionaire.

00:54:20.500 It's like not as an artist, not as an entrepreneur, but like I'm a bill.

00:54:24.260 It's all about the money, the money.

00:54:27.260 And I don't know.

00:54:28.560 Is it that we're just no longer holding up blue collar jobs is something of value, something

00:54:34.120 of respect, something meaningful.

00:54:35.820 And so people aren't going into those jobs or that we're just we've abandoned all training.

00:54:40.200 We've abandoned the pathways.

00:54:42.300 This, that and about five or six other things as well.

00:54:45.860 Look, part of it, too, is the varsity blues routine.

00:54:49.080 I mean, I think about the pressure of raising your three kids, right?

00:54:53.680 Think about what it feels like to not want to screw them up.

00:54:58.020 And that's so hardwired into our DNA that as parents, you know, we look around and say,

00:55:05.240 well, is there a playbook?

00:55:06.920 Is there just a short list, a rudimentary list of things I can do so as to not screw my

00:55:14.040 kids up?

00:55:15.320 And yeah, I think there is.

00:55:18.800 But somehow get them to college wound up on that list.

00:55:23.180 And so parents are under enormous pressure.

00:55:27.340 Guidance counselors, in many cases, are getting bonused out on their ability to transition

00:55:33.440 kids into four-year schools, not apprenticeships, not trade schools, not community colleges.

00:55:39.620 We've got our thumb on the scale in a very real way.

00:55:43.100 And it's created more pressure than I think I can understand.

00:55:49.240 I mean, to be 17 years old and to be given a chance to sign on the dotted line, borrow

00:55:55.160 $30,000, $50,000, $80,000, $100,000, I mean, we don't put that kind of pressure on people

00:56:00.900 to buy a house or really anything.

00:56:04.080 It's really amazing.

00:56:06.380 And I don't say any of that because I favor some sort of forgiveness of student loans.

00:56:12.320 I don't.

00:56:13.000 But I am mindful of the incredible pressure that trickles down and the unbelievable PR.

00:56:22.340 You know, college needed a PR campaign back in the 70s and 80s.

00:56:26.240 We genuinely needed more people to go in pursuit of some of this thing we call higher education.

00:56:34.200 But we bitched it all up.

00:56:36.760 You know, we didn't just make the case for a four-year school.

00:56:40.340 We made the case at the expense of all other forms of education.

00:56:44.680 So now there's stigmas and stereotypes and myths and misperceptions and all kind of bullcrap

00:56:51.340 that keep people from pursuing many of these 11 million open jobs right now that paradoxically

00:56:57.900 are the very jobs that make civilized life possible for the rest of us.

00:57:01.460 So let's talk about that.

00:57:03.200 Why?

00:57:03.400 Why are those 7 million guys able-bodied and young, 25 to 54, sitting on the sidelines?

00:57:10.340 Well, to be fair, my friends on the left, when I ask them that question, will tell me reflexively

00:57:18.060 and instinctively that it's because the jobs suck, the pay is lousy, and those greedy and

00:57:23.580 rapacious corporate overlords could fix this problem if they simply were more generous vis-a-vis

00:57:29.760 their remuneration.

00:57:31.680 The other side, my friends on the right, will say, because people are freaking lazy.

00:57:36.060 That's why there's no work ethic.

00:57:39.360 Now, there's some truth, maybe, to some degree in both, but this is how work ethic gets politicized.

00:57:46.660 This is how the skills gap gets politicized.

00:57:49.060 By the way, I'm not so sure there's a skills gap anymore.

00:57:51.900 There's a will gap, for sure.

00:57:54.020 But if Nick Eberstadt were here, he would say, you can't just look at why they're not

00:58:00.760 working.

00:58:01.200 You've got to look at what they're doing instead and what the research indicates.

00:58:06.040 And these are surveys that people take, in their own words, a majority of that cohort

00:58:12.860 of people we're describing right now, these men, spend between 2,000 and 2,400 hours a year

00:58:20.120 on screens.

00:58:21.120 That's what they're doing.

00:58:23.480 Now, the average work week extrapolated over a year is 2,080 hours, right?

00:58:29.160 40 hours a week times 50 weeks or so, 52 weeks.

00:58:33.640 That's their full-time job.

00:58:35.380 They're on their screens.

00:58:38.160 Many are collecting disability, which is another story, right?

00:58:41.720 You can be able-bodied and collecting disability.

00:58:45.340 I'm not saying that that, I'm not talking about the legitimate cohort who cannot work.

00:58:50.400 I'm talking very specifically about this chunk of men.

00:58:54.860 And Nick's point is, look, that's never happened in a peacetime environment before.

00:59:00.560 And you could maybe argue that this is not exactly peacetime, but he's looking at wars,

00:59:07.100 right?

00:59:07.320 And he's looking at what happens to the workforce during a war.

00:59:10.160 And he's looking at our obsession with the unemployment number, which really is just an artifact

00:59:15.440 from a Depression-era level of trying to make sense of what's going on in the economy.

00:59:20.740 Because in those days, the number of people who were unemployed usually reflected a dearth

00:59:27.980 of opportunity.

00:59:28.880 But that's all gone now.

00:59:31.720 There are 11 million open jobs.

00:59:34.600 You can't walk down any street in any town and not see the help-wanted signs.

00:59:39.920 Right.

00:59:40.140 And that means something else.

00:59:43.140 There's something else going on in the country.

00:59:45.280 It's unpleasant.

00:59:46.620 It's troubling.

00:59:48.060 It's important.

00:59:49.100 And we have to talk about it.

00:59:52.300 We have to find a way to stop looking at the workforce in terms of the number of people

00:59:56.380 who are unemployed and see it instead through the lens of the number of people who have

01:00:00.800 affirmatively chosen not to work.

01:00:05.300 What?

01:00:05.940 I mean, I can't help but I'm stuck on the internet and the screens.

01:00:10.780 And I have to ask, you know, back in our day before there was an iPhone, was there anything

01:00:17.680 like this?

01:00:18.320 You know, it's back to the age-old technology question of, you know, more good or not as

01:00:26.500 a result of these phones.

01:00:27.440 Like, have they helped or hurt more?

01:00:29.820 I think personally, I remember a professor in college talked about the displacement theory,

01:00:36.460 basically saying that there was a belief that movies would displace newspapers and TV would

01:00:47.680 displace movies and the internet would displace TV and so forth and so on.

01:00:54.460 And, of course, what really happens is they're not displaced.

01:00:58.700 They just change.

01:01:00.320 And something like that, I think, is happening here.

01:01:02.540 There are a litany, an endless litany of ways to screw off.

01:01:07.460 There always have been.

01:01:08.680 There are lots of things you can do instead of working.

01:01:11.480 But I don't think we've seen anything like this because there is something truly addictive.

01:01:21.080 And going back to your monologue, you know, if you think we're living in a self-obsessed,

01:01:26.560 narcissistic world driven by some weird relationship with victimhood, and then you look at what all that

01:01:34.520 means to people who are now indoors all the time, looking at their screens on TikTok, on Reels.

01:01:43.160 I literally, not to bring it back to the bowl, but there I was this morning, waking up, sitting down,

01:01:48.200 getting my day started, and I grabbed my stupid phone, and like 10 minutes later, I'm still sitting

01:01:54.420 there scrolling through Reels, just watching this thing.

01:01:59.660 I'm a grown man.

01:02:00.740 I have a big day.

01:02:02.100 I have an interview scheduled with Megyn Kelly, for God's sakes.

01:02:05.460 But there I am on the bowl, 60 years old, looking at some guy show me some freaking magic trick.

01:02:12.160 And then the next, and the next, and the next.

01:02:14.600 Something's happening.

01:02:16.300 Something's happening here.

01:02:18.200 And again, I was talking to your producer earlier, too.

01:02:22.440 Do you remember Faith Popcorn?

01:02:25.200 Does that name ring any bells?

01:02:26.460 No.

01:02:26.560 She published for years, in the 80s, a thing called the Popcorn Report.

01:02:32.540 And it was a look at trends.

01:02:34.700 She was an excellent predictor of what people were going to be doing in large numbers in

01:02:40.080 advance.

01:02:40.800 And she talked about two things.

01:02:42.660 The first thing she talked about was something she called cocooning, where she predicted people

01:02:49.220 were going to be spending more time at home, thanks to better TVs, and the ability to watch

01:02:55.080 movies, thanks to HBO.

01:02:57.000 And she said, this cocooning thing is going to be exacerbated by more and more takeout

01:03:02.040 services.

01:03:02.660 People are going to start ordering food at home, and they're going to start spending more

01:03:05.940 time at home watching TV.

01:03:07.480 Well, of course, she was right on steroids.

01:03:10.080 But then she came out with another report.

01:03:12.300 She said, screw that.

01:03:14.280 Never mind cocooning.

01:03:15.620 We're talking about burrowing.

01:03:17.140 We're talking about people going way, way deep, like really, really staying at home,

01:03:23.720 radically changing the degree to which they would go outside, radically changing the way

01:03:29.160 they'd think about work.

01:03:30.440 All that was still pre-internet.

01:03:32.980 I don't know if she's around anymore.

01:03:34.880 And pre-COVID.

01:03:36.140 Yeah.

01:03:36.680 What would she say now?

01:03:38.820 We can create virtual anonymous identities online.

01:03:43.020 We can say anything we want anonymously.

01:03:46.480 We're so brave, right?

01:03:48.740 Online.

01:03:49.480 So bold.

01:03:50.340 So empowered.

01:03:53.120 But to do what?

01:03:54.840 Build little monuments to ourselves, really?

01:03:58.720 Your Nana was right.

01:04:00.540 There's nothing impressive.

01:04:01.760 There's nothing impressive about this.

01:04:04.880 What's impressive is the same things that have always been impressive.

01:04:08.740 The infrastructure, our grid, the pipes that connect civilized life as we understand it,

01:04:16.940 and the people who maintain those things.

01:04:19.440 I'll tell you, Mike, I asked her before she passed, what was the most amazing invention

01:04:24.220 you've seen in your many, many years on Earth?

01:04:27.700 And the number one thing wasn't electricity, wasn't the computer.

01:04:31.980 It was the garage door opener.

01:04:35.960 Yes.

01:04:37.060 Game changer.

01:04:38.700 She wasn't wrong.

01:04:41.000 Number two was the microwave.

01:04:42.760 I love it.

01:04:44.760 Mike Rowe.

01:04:45.280 How about the remote control?

01:04:46.420 I don't know if you have Nana's genius, but you have your own special brand of genius,

01:04:49.480 and that's one of the many reasons why I love talking to you.

01:04:51.960 Thanks so much for coming back on.

01:04:53.980 You owe me one.

01:04:54.760 You're going to come on my little podcast sometime next year?

01:04:57.500 Any time.

01:04:58.480 I'd be glad to do it.

01:05:00.360 Because we're going to take this to another level, Megan.

01:05:02.300 I've got plenty of shit stories to share with you.

01:05:05.680 I look forward to it.

01:05:06.560 You are a deep well, my friend.

01:05:08.740 Thank you for having me on.

01:05:11.380 Mike Rowe.

01:05:12.080 See you soon.

01:05:12.960 All right.

01:05:13.320 We're going to be right back with a deep dive on Georgia as part of our continuing series

01:05:17.940 on these critical swing states that we're watching the elections so carefully in.

01:05:22.500 And there's a lot to discuss.

01:05:23.520 Georgia had a debate recently, and I heard my pals over at National Review say, my God,

01:05:29.080 the debate moderators, they were amazing.

01:05:30.700 They were so fair.

01:05:31.320 They were tough.

01:05:32.060 Guess what?

01:05:32.380 We got one.

01:05:33.320 And this is a reporter who's been covering the whole situation down there very carefully

01:05:36.760 and closely.

01:05:37.780 That's next.

01:05:38.540 Everything you need to know about Georgia at the gubernatorial and Senate level.

01:05:42.280 We are 20 days away from Election Day and all eyes are on the state of Georgia and how in

01:05:53.060 the governor's race.

01:05:53.900 Democrat Stacey Abrams is now hoping former President Barack Obama and Oprah Winfrey can

01:06:00.080 help her energize black voters.

01:06:02.480 And incumbent Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock is hoping that Hamilton star creator Lin-Manuel

01:06:09.960 Miranda will help him with Latino voters, which has many Republicans asking, where's Joe Biden?

01:06:17.700 Who might he help you with?

01:06:19.780 He is not on the invite list, apparently.

01:06:22.080 Joining me now to get into all of it is Greg Blustein.

01:06:24.880 He's a political reporter for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution and co-host of the Politically

01:06:29.620 Georgia podcast.

01:06:31.800 Welcome, Greg.

01:06:32.240 Great to have you here.

01:06:33.360 Hey, thanks so much for having me.

01:06:35.040 So just to tell the audience, you were a moderator of the gubernatorial debate between

01:06:41.240 Abrams and Kemp just a couple of days ago.

01:06:44.520 Not long.

01:06:44.880 When was it?

01:06:45.900 All these days run together, Megan.

01:06:47.800 It was Monday night, Monday night.

01:06:49.660 Yeah, I was going to say it was a couple of days ago.

01:06:51.420 You did a great job.

01:06:53.000 And I heard my pals over on National Review really praising you, saying the moderator is

01:06:57.740 tough and fair and, you know, asked all the questions that the left would want asked and

01:07:03.220 that the right would want asked.

01:07:04.260 And that's great.

01:07:04.920 That's that's not easy to achieve.

01:07:06.420 So good on you.

01:07:08.420 Let's start with this.

01:07:09.420 Dave, Stacey Abrams is behind in this race.

01:07:12.400 She's running for her second term as Georgia governor.

01:07:14.880 I'm just kidding.

01:07:16.340 Brian Kemp beat her and she's never really conceded that election.

01:07:20.280 And so people joke.

01:07:21.240 But she made she's about 10 points behind.

01:07:25.740 And she just made a comment on MSNBC this morning.

01:07:31.100 That's going viral.

01:07:33.200 And here's here's that exchange.

01:07:34.880 Stop 14.

01:07:35.880 You're running for governor of Georgia.

01:07:37.740 I would assume maybe incorrectly, but while abortion is an issue, it nowhere reaches the

01:07:45.840 level of interest of voters in terms of the cost of gas, food, bread, milk, things like

01:07:52.480 that.

01:07:52.640 What can a governor what could you do as governor to alleviate the concerns of Georgia voters

01:07:58.480 about those livability, daily, hourly issues that they're confronted with?

01:08:03.160 But let's be clear, having children is why you're worried about your price for gas.

01:08:09.000 It's why you're concerned about how much food costs for women.

01:08:12.180 This is not a reductive issue.

01:08:13.940 You can't divorce being forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy from the economic realities

01:08:19.720 of having a child.

01:08:21.700 And so these are it's important for us to have both and conversations.

01:08:25.960 We don't have the luxury of reducing it or separating them out.

01:08:29.080 But let's not pretend that women, half the population, especially those of childbearing

01:08:34.480 age, they understand that having a child is absolutely an economic issue.

01:08:39.880 It is only politicians who see it as simply another cultural conversation.

01:08:44.240 It is a real biological and economic imperative conversation that women need to have.

01:08:50.880 I mean, it's I think a lot of people find that a shocking place to go when asked, what

01:08:55.040 are you going to do about inflation?

01:08:55.960 And, you know, to bring it to abortion, I'll just give you a flavor, Greg, on what's happening

01:09:00.500 online amongst conservatives.

01:09:01.920 Mark Thiessen, my old pal, he's at AEI.

01:09:05.520 Abrams says the answer to inflation is abortion.

01:09:07.840 If you kill your baby, you won't have to feed it or drive it to school.

01:09:11.100 You can't make this up.

01:09:12.020 National Review.

01:09:13.260 Stacey Abrams floats abortion as inflation fix.

01:09:16.940 Having children is why you're worried about rising prices.

01:09:19.540 The Federalists, Stacey Abrams, inflation wouldn't be so bad if you would just let us kill more

01:09:24.080 babies.

01:09:26.540 You get the general feel for where this is going to go amongst Republicans and probably

01:09:29.760 Kemp and her opponents.

01:09:32.480 Yeah, I think Governor Kemp is going to lean into this in a major way.

01:09:35.400 I mean, there's a minor setback for him if he does, because he's not wanted to focus this

01:09:39.220 election on abortion.

01:09:40.180 He'd rather talk about the economy.

01:09:41.240 But when you have an opportunity like this, in his view, right, a chance to quote unquote

01:09:46.700 pounce, they're going to take it.

01:09:48.980 And look, this also speaks to a difference between the governor and Stacey Abrams when

01:09:53.680 it comes to messaging.

01:09:54.700 If I ask the governor the same question over and over again, he'll usually give the same

01:09:58.960 answer.

01:09:59.760 He's very scripted.

01:10:00.940 He's very on message.

01:10:02.440 He faced this during the primary when we asked him about Donald Trump, and he'd give

01:10:06.460 the same answer over and over again.

01:10:07.700 Hey, I'm not focused on Donald Trump, but I'll take all the help I can get, so on and

01:10:11.980 so forth.

01:10:12.560 If you ask Stacey Abrams the same question, she might answer it 10 different ways.

01:10:16.920 And every so often, an answer comes out like this, where it's not perfect by any means.

01:10:23.220 Even a lot of Democrats are very upset with the way that she answered this question.

01:10:27.000 She's been in generally trying to tie all three of the biggest issues on the ballot in Georgia

01:10:32.940 together, the economy, guns, and abortion.

01:10:35.540 She's trying to make Governor Kemp's stances on guns and abortion an economic issue, saying

01:10:42.840 that Georgia's losing business.

01:10:44.600 Its pro-business reputation is being dinged.

01:10:47.460 But when she answers questions like this, it really digs a hole for her.

01:10:51.300 And now the next few days of the campaign, if not more, are going to be focused on these

01:10:56.020 comments.

01:10:56.640 And if you're Governor Kemp's camp, you're going to put money behind it.

01:10:58.920 You might want to put this on air.

01:11:00.640 You might want to do everything you can to amplify them.

01:11:02.500 To me, this is a microcosm of what's happening to the Democrats in a lot of these bigger races

01:11:07.160 that we're watching across the country from Georgia and beyond.

01:11:10.760 And that is the Democrats got to, you know, they got some wind at their back after Dobbs,

01:11:15.860 after Roe versus Wade was overturned.

01:11:17.660 And they said to their base, my God, these crazy Republicans, they're going to outlaw abortion

01:11:21.800 in all 50 states.

01:11:23.180 We've got to band together.

01:11:23.880 You've got to elect Democrats.

01:11:24.800 And that worked for them for a while.

01:11:26.480 But the inflation number stayed so astronomically high month after month.

01:11:31.520 And it's not just a number on a piece of paper.

01:11:33.660 People feel it everywhere.

01:11:35.920 Every time money comes out of their wallet or goes into their their bank account, they

01:11:40.340 feel it such that it took over.

01:11:43.420 The inflationary numbers took over.

01:11:45.160 And so that myopic focus on an issue that affects, yes, some people, but not the vast

01:11:52.740 majority of Americans now is almost a liability.

01:11:56.740 You know, now you need to be able to speak to the thing that is really upsetting folks.

01:12:01.660 And that's money.

01:12:02.760 That's inflation.

01:12:03.480 That's what's happening in the economy.

01:12:04.940 That's just more evidence.

01:12:06.060 She can't do it.

01:12:06.800 She's so tied to her Democratic, you know, pet issues that people aren't going to be confident

01:12:14.200 if they put her in the gubernatorial role.

01:12:16.540 She's going to help them.

01:12:19.220 Yeah, it's hard to find a poll in Georgia that shows the economy or household products

01:12:23.420 or just rising prices aren't the top issue.

01:12:26.620 And I think, look, the Democrats, Senator Warnock, Stacey Abrams, they acknowledge that

01:12:30.400 the economy is the top issue.

01:12:31.780 And as I said, they're trying to kind of, especially in Abrams case, trying to blend

01:12:34.820 those issues together.

01:12:36.100 But if you're, you know, if you're here in Georgia and you can't turn on a TV without

01:12:41.420 an ad attacking the Abrams-Biden inflation or attacking the Biden administration or tying

01:12:48.300 Biden administration to these high prices.

01:12:50.860 And as you mentioned, folks are feeling those issues every single day.

01:12:55.000 Democrats have tried to pivot back by citing the Inflation Reduction Act.

01:12:58.340 But our polls show that there's mixed feelings about the impact of that legislation.

01:13:03.160 And it's still so soon, no one's really felt any, you know, it's hard to point to any

01:13:08.200 positive effects this close to that legislation being passed.

01:13:12.840 I'm going to go back to the governor's debate that you moderated in one second.

01:13:15.700 But just while we're on the subject of Biden and trying to tie Abrams to Biden and trying

01:13:19.920 to tie Warnock to Biden, we saw some of that in the senatorial debate, too, between

01:13:25.780 Raphael Warnock and Herschel Walker, where the question was to the Democrat, Warnock, do

01:13:32.140 you want Biden to run for a second term?

01:13:34.480 Some news was made there.

01:13:36.120 This is Sot 15.

01:13:38.500 Senator Warnock, a simple yes or no here.

01:13:41.060 You will have a chance to explain, but I'd like a simple yes or no.

01:13:44.620 Would you support President Biden running for a second term in 2024?

01:13:48.960 I've not spent a minute thinking about what politicians should run for what in 2024.

01:13:55.200 Is that a yes or no?

01:13:56.180 The answer is I have not.

01:13:59.300 And maybe this is difficult.

01:14:02.680 Maybe this is difficult for people to understand because that's how politicians think.

01:14:07.220 I think that part of the problem with our politics right now is that it's become too much about

01:14:13.120 the politicians.

01:14:14.340 You're asking me who's going to run in 24?

01:14:16.720 The people of Georgia get to decide who's going to be their senator in three days.

01:14:20.820 You haven't thought about it.

01:14:22.240 If you can think about it now in 2024, the president will turn 82 years old.

01:14:26.320 Are you concerned about his physical and his mental fitness at that time?

01:14:29.720 You have 30 seconds.

01:14:30.220 The people of Georgia hired me to represent them regardless of who's in the White House.

01:14:40.060 Now, you and I know as political reporters, that was all intentional.

01:14:44.740 There's a very good and real reason why he was answering that the way he was.

01:14:49.440 Yeah, and look, I can tell you he's thought about it because I've asked him that question

01:14:52.980 on the campaign trail and so many other reporters.

01:14:55.480 And he's given generally that same answer, which is, hey, I'm not focused on that.

01:14:59.680 I'm not thinking about Joe Biden.

01:15:01.200 I'm thinking about November.

01:15:02.160 I'm thinking about my own case.

01:15:03.880 And the reason why is as clear as the polls.

01:15:06.840 Joe Biden's approval rating here in Georgia, the last Atlanta Journal-Constitution poll was

01:15:10.300 at 37%.

01:15:11.280 A poll that came out a few weeks later from a news consortium put it at 38%.

01:15:16.140 So he is struggling.

01:15:17.220 And Raphael Warnock is moving to keep Joe Biden at arm's length, right?

01:15:22.500 He speaks more about working with Ted Cruz and Tommy Tuberville on the campaign trail

01:15:26.640 than he does working with Joe Biden.

01:15:29.260 It's his plea for those sort of middle of the road, disaffected Republican voters who might

01:15:34.060 not be comfortable with Herschel Walker.

01:15:35.800 That's his way of getting them in his camp.

01:15:37.740 And it's a very different strategy than Stacey Abrams, who has openly encouraged Joe Biden

01:15:41.560 to run for a second term, said that she wants him to campaign for him down here,

01:15:45.060 and even campaign with Joe Biden, the first lady, just a few days ago.

01:15:49.980 So now they want Oprah to come down there and campaign for the Dems.

01:15:54.760 And they want, as I mentioned, Lin-Manuel Miranda.

01:15:58.060 So they're trying to get out the Black vote.

01:16:00.340 They're trying to get the Hispanic vote.

01:16:02.300 Do we believe?

01:16:03.520 I mean, obviously, these two groups historically have tended to vote more Democrat, Hispanics

01:16:08.220 less and less so.

01:16:09.240 That's been an ongoing story over the past couple of years.

01:16:11.280 And even the Black vote in the New York Times-Siena poll that we saw recently was growing for

01:16:16.960 Republicans.

01:16:17.480 I think it was up at 19 percent, 18 or 19 percent, whereas, you know, about 10 years ago, it

01:16:22.020 was down at eight for Republicans.

01:16:23.260 So it's certainly growing in strength for the GOP, but, you know, not a majority.

01:16:27.620 So what's happening with the Black vote and Latino vote in Georgia?

01:16:30.980 Yeah.

01:16:31.180 Well, right now, Republicans are trying to expand the battleground map.

01:16:34.400 Governor Kemp, as you mentioned, is ahead in the polls between five to six, seven.

01:16:37.680 Even some polls show him at 10 points above Stacey Abrams.

01:16:41.760 And so he feels like he can go make a play for the suburbs.

01:16:44.640 He feels like he can go reach out to African-American voters in a way that he frankly, and he'll

01:16:49.360 admit it, he did not in 2018.

01:16:50.880 He hardly campaigned in Atlanta's suburbs, which are very diverse.

01:16:54.500 You know, just like many suburbs, they're not monolithically white at all anymore, like

01:16:58.460 they might have been 40 years ago.

01:16:59.780 They're very diverse.

01:17:01.460 And so he's reaching out.

01:17:02.340 The Republican National Committee and other GOP groups are opening offices in the suburbs

01:17:07.400 and in the cities that are geared specifically towards voters of color, Hispanic voters, Asian

01:17:11.880 American voters, Black voters.

01:17:14.220 And so they're trying to put Democrats on the defensive.

01:17:16.880 And Stacey Abrams has kind of pivoted in a sense, or at least acknowledged that.

01:17:21.520 And she's held a number of events in recent weeks geared specifically, not just to African-American

01:17:26.980 voters, but in particular to Black men, because she knows that the polls show her numbers with

01:17:32.940 African-Americans soft right now.

01:17:35.040 Some polls show her that 80% of support among Black voters.

01:17:38.360 That sounds like a lot, but she needs to be closer to 90, 95.

01:17:41.560 And she lags behind Senator Warnock, the state's first Black U.S. senator, who's more like closer

01:17:46.800 to 90% when it comes to Black voters.

01:17:48.960 So no one thinks that Governor Kemp will get 20% of the African-American vote.

01:17:52.200 But what Democrats worry about is a sort of a suppressed or a lower than expected turnout

01:17:58.360 among Black voters.

01:17:59.340 And so far, it's very early, but early voting so far, there's been a surge of not just overall

01:18:04.640 voting, but Black voters so far in the first two days.

01:18:08.380 Fascinating.

01:18:09.020 Yeah, because you've got like never-ending voting in Georgia like we have in Pennsylvania

01:18:12.440 and other states now.

01:18:13.340 It just goes on and on.

01:18:14.600 Three weeks.

01:18:15.000 I think it was you guys, right?

01:18:16.660 Atlanta Journal-Constitution and Georgia News collaborative poll on Hispanic voters,

01:18:21.100 shifting gears, showing Stacey Abrams has 49% of their support.

01:18:27.740 Kemp has 48%.

01:18:29.060 That's well within the poll's margin of error of 5.6 percentage points, which is surprising,

01:18:35.300 right?

01:18:35.520 That it's that tight.

01:18:36.500 That, yes, she's got a one-point advantage, maybe, if you factor out the margin of error.

01:18:40.900 But it's surprising that it's that tight.

01:18:42.380 And secondly, Walker versus Warnock, the Republican versus the Dem.

01:18:47.200 Walker's got a six-point advantage with Hispanic voters, 47 over 41.

01:18:51.100 Is that also surprising?

01:18:53.260 Yeah.

01:18:54.180 To say the least, a lot of Democrats are surprised.

01:18:56.620 Now, it's a small sample size.

01:18:58.040 It's about 300 folks who were polled.

01:19:00.760 The poll was in English.

01:19:02.180 So that could have an effect.

01:19:03.340 But yes, it's about 5% margin of error.

01:19:07.260 So a little higher than we usually see with polls.

01:19:09.000 But to say the Democrats were surprised is probably an understatement.

01:19:12.560 The Latino voting bloc, the Hispanic voting bloc in Georgia is small, but it's growing.

01:19:19.320 And in a state as closely divided as Georgia is, where just fewer than 12,000 votes divided

01:19:24.580 Joe Biden and Donald Trump back in 2020, that even small fluctuations, even small changes

01:19:30.460 in voting behavior can make big, big differences in the November outcome.

01:19:34.860 That's why both parties are really increasingly focusing on Hispanic voters and driving up

01:19:40.840 turnout.

01:19:41.640 And as I mentioned earlier, there's a tremendous number of Hispanic voters in the Atlanta suburbs,

01:19:46.300 particularly in Gwinnett County, which was a Republican stronghold until 2016.

01:19:50.520 Flip blew during the Trump era and is now basically a cornerstone of the Democratic coalition.

01:19:55.640 So for Republicans, they're not going to win Gwinnett County.

01:19:57.880 But if Republicans can kind of keep Democratic margins down in Gwinnett County and other suburban

01:20:02.420 areas, then they can grow their elites.

01:20:05.000 And that's the angle right now.

01:20:07.080 So I have a question for you, because I have a theory that they don't usually poll for this,

01:20:11.140 but I have a theory about what's happening with these voters.

01:20:14.640 And as Republican support grows amongst Black voters and Hispanic voters, it occurs to me

01:20:19.900 that both of these groups traditionally are churchgoers, high Christian population.

01:20:25.520 And I do think that there's a backlash to the crazy trans ideology that's coming into all

01:20:34.060 the schools and the over-sexualization of school educations and all the wokeism when it

01:20:39.800 comes to race essentialism and so on, which I think even groups that are supposed to be

01:20:44.140 benefiting from some of those race essentialism policies have had it with everything reducing

01:20:50.320 to skin color.

01:20:51.040 I mean, we've heard a lot of Latinos who are now running for office saying this is one of

01:20:54.180 their inspirations.

01:20:54.820 So I just wonder to what extent you think that's factoring.

01:20:57.920 And I know I get economy, economy, economy, but as somebody who covers Georgia politics

01:21:03.020 and follows the news cycle down there, has this been a factor?

01:21:06.620 Yeah, I would say it's fair to say in general, transgender politics is a factor because you

01:21:12.000 can't, it's hard to turn on the radio right now and not hear ads aimed at African-American

01:21:16.380 voters from the conservative standpoint attacking transgender policies, right?

01:21:21.720 But, you know, you mentioned it, you hit the nail on the head.

01:21:24.780 It still goes back to the economy.

01:21:26.440 I mean, that same poll that you just mentioned showed that very few, that was only about 6%.

01:21:31.420 So even with the giant margin of error, 6%, you know, it shows if only 6% of Latino voters

01:21:38.920 are confident in the direction of the country, there's a problem there.

01:21:42.260 Oh my goodness.

01:21:43.480 Yeah.

01:21:43.780 And a majority disapprove of Joe Biden's performance in office.

01:21:47.460 So I think, I think the real biggest factor boils down to the economy and distrust of, or

01:21:54.060 at least a apprehension towards Joe Biden right now.

01:21:57.380 6% of Hispanic voters say they think the country's headed in the right direction in Georgia.

01:22:02.540 I mean, that is, that's stunning.

01:22:04.400 And that is probably the worst fact for the Democrats running there right now.

01:22:09.240 And that's, that's the reason why Joe Biden's not going to Georgia.

01:22:12.880 That has nothing to do with schedules or anything else.

01:22:15.520 That's the reason why, all right, so let's talk about the debate the other night because

01:22:18.420 we, there was this viral clip all over the internet yesterday of another race out in

01:22:23.420 Arizona and that's Carrie Lake, who's the Republican running for governor there.

01:22:27.700 She's going to win.

01:22:29.000 I mean, she's ahead right now and her opponent won't debate her and isn't a particularly

01:22:33.780 compelling character.

01:22:35.140 I really think Carrie Lake is going to win.

01:22:37.300 And it's saying something because she kind of came out of nowhere.

01:22:40.180 She was a news anchor.

01:22:41.260 It was the, the Republican she was challenging for the nomination was much better known and much

01:22:44.660 better funded.

01:22:45.520 And Carrie Lee comes up and she, she gets it.

01:22:48.240 And now she's running in the general and looks to win.

01:22:50.300 The viral clip was of Carrie Lake pushing back on reporters in, in the way only a reporter

01:22:56.000 would know how to do, right?

01:22:57.420 Like she was like, oh, cause she's one of those Trump didn't lose people.

01:23:01.260 And she's like, oh, you want to talk election denial?

01:23:03.700 Let's do that.

01:23:04.660 And she goes through the long list of Hillary Clinton denying the elections, Stacey Abrams denying

01:23:09.660 elections, the LA Times saying that it was stolen from Hillary and so on.

01:23:13.520 It was good stuff.

01:23:14.540 Great stuff, right?

01:23:15.300 She went on offense.

01:23:16.400 Well, one of the people on that list was Stacey Abrams.

01:23:19.520 And you kind of raised something similar in that debate that the governor candidates had

01:23:25.760 the other night, a Monday night, where you asked her about her election denialism in a

01:23:30.660 great exchange.

01:23:31.720 Here's part of it.

01:23:32.320 This election, do you commit to accept the outcome of the vote, regardless of what it

01:23:37.340 shows?

01:23:38.000 And do you stand by your use of words like rigged four years ago to describe the state's

01:23:41.760 election system?

01:23:43.160 In 2018, I began my speech on November 16th, acknowledging that Governor Kemp had won the

01:23:48.340 election.

01:23:49.020 I then proceeded to lay out in grave detail the challenges faced by voters under his leadership.

01:23:54.500 Just today, a homeless woman was denied the right to vote in Forsyth County because she

01:23:58.780 could not, she did not receive a provisional ballot because she had been challenged.

01:24:02.720 As governor, I intend to stand up for the right to vote.

01:24:05.000 I will always acknowledge the outcome of elections, but I will never deny access to every voter

01:24:09.600 because that is the responsibility of every American to defend the right to vote.

01:24:13.400 In 2018, in the governor's race, we had the largest African-American turnout in the country.

01:24:18.580 She said that Senate Bill 202, our recent Elections Integrity Act we passed two years ago, would

01:24:24.960 be suppressive in Jim Crow 2.0.

01:24:27.640 Just this past May in our primaries, we again had record turnout in the Republican primary

01:24:32.860 and the Democratic primary.

01:24:34.920 In Georgia, it's easy to vote and hard to cheat.

01:24:39.120 Good for you for asking this question, but the bottom line is she was an election denier.

01:24:43.380 She may claim otherwise now, but we've played the sound bites before.

01:24:46.960 I have one very affirmative statement to make, she said, after the election.

01:24:51.360 We won.

01:24:52.600 This was a stolen election.

01:24:54.420 They stole it from the voters of Georgia.

01:24:56.280 She filed a whole lawsuit claiming that the whole system was unfair.

01:24:59.320 It got thrown out in harsh terms by an Obama appointed judge just recently.

01:25:05.660 It was an embarrassing decision for her.

01:25:07.860 There's been absolutely no evidence to support her claims that that election was stolen from

01:25:12.920 her in any way.

01:25:13.680 He beat her by 54,000 votes.

01:25:16.940 And yet to me, she still was kind of hanging on a little, like I'm still the champion of

01:25:21.640 the downtrodden and the forgotten and the people who can't get to the to the polls.

01:25:26.020 What did you make of the whole thing?

01:25:27.640 You know, sometimes in these debates, too, you have to ask questions that you've heard

01:25:30.960 the answer to before, but a broader audience.

01:25:34.460 And so she's talked about this with me before.

01:25:36.000 She's talked about this with other reporters and even on the campaign trail.

01:25:38.660 Well, she gave us a slightly different answer than she usually does, because she usually

01:25:42.560 says, look, you know, that I not did I refuse to concede that I use that language?

01:25:47.400 Yes.

01:25:48.180 But did I try to undermine that?

01:25:50.020 I tried to overturn the election results, you know, like Donald Trump did.

01:25:53.460 No.

01:25:54.140 And so she makes that distinction between her and Donald Trump.

01:25:56.980 But in this case, you know, we weren't talking about Donald Trump.

01:25:59.320 We were talking about this election.

01:26:00.780 Um, and, and there was, there were Republicans who noted that she said she would acknowledge

01:26:05.400 the results, but that she didn't say that she would accept them.

01:26:08.320 Right.

01:26:08.680 And so there's a little bit of a nuance there afterwards.

01:26:11.200 Her campaign said that it would indeed accept the results no matter what they, what they show.

01:26:15.400 But that 10 days of, we call it kind of purgatory.

01:26:19.280 There was 10 days between the election and her non-concession speech.

01:26:22.800 And there was a moment, there was 10 days of very great uncertainty in Georgia because

01:26:26.840 we had never, at least in modern recent Georgia history, been through anything like that since

01:26:32.180 the three governors scandal, uh, 60 years ago that we don't need to get into here.

01:26:36.380 Um, but it was a very big, you know, big question mark over our election system.

01:26:41.000 And in the days following, you know, at the time Democrats were putting an asterisk by

01:26:45.880 governor Kemp's name, right?

01:26:47.180 He won by default or he won by whatever.

01:26:49.600 And there was a concern even among Democrats, hardcore Democrats that by doing that, undermining

01:26:55.640 his legitimacy that you call into question the entire election system.

01:26:59.080 And then when there is a disaster, when there is a moment where the state needs to unify

01:27:03.920 and around, around a state leader, and you're putting an asterisk by his name, um, then that's

01:27:08.920 a problem.

01:27:09.360 And, and, and the Democrats stopped doing that, but clearly that rhetoric from 2018, uh, still

01:27:14.360 continues to, to, to, to, to become an issue in this, in this race.

01:27:17.660 Yes.

01:27:18.860 I mean, that is the thing.

01:27:20.080 It's like, I'm, I've said on the air and many of my listeners and viewers don't agree

01:27:25.180 with me, but I don't believe that there was theft of the election from Donald Trump.

01:27:29.820 I don't think it was fair, but I do, I do not think this was a stolen election.

01:27:34.500 Um, you can't, you can't even talk about it without talking about how we even got to

01:27:39.240 the point where someone would think about doing such a, where did Trump get that kind

01:27:42.800 of an idea from Hillary Clinton and Stacey Abrams.

01:27:46.320 And it's, I, I, I'm sure it's hurting her.

01:27:49.240 I mean, I'm sure that people look at her and understand she was one of the first to start

01:27:53.220 etching away at this principle that we use to consider inviolate, that you would not touch,

01:27:57.540 that we were proud of as Americans, you know, the, the peaceful and accepted transfer of

01:28:02.260 power.

01:28:02.900 Our elections have never been perfect and they've always been slightly unfair one way or another.

01:28:07.440 And yet we accept the results and we move on.

01:28:10.000 We try to do better, even against a system that stacked against us the next time she was

01:28:14.920 one of the first to really try to change that.

01:28:17.380 I'm really glad you asked her about it.

01:28:19.420 Okay.

01:28:19.580 So let's talk about Senate because I think it's pretty clear Kemp's going to win at the

01:28:23.000 governor's level.

01:28:24.140 There's a question about whether he has enough coattails to take Herschel Walker, who's more

01:28:27.860 embattled, uh, over the finish line with him or whether even without Kemp, Herschel could

01:28:32.360 do it because even though he's never led in a poll, it's getting tighter and he seems

01:28:37.280 to have withstood this personal scandal pretty well or like you've been watching the polls

01:28:43.460 closely.

01:28:44.220 Has he, is that true?

01:28:45.960 You know, we, we still aren't sure what the, if there is any major impact, but certainly

01:28:51.660 the polls still show a very tight race.

01:28:53.800 And then the reason why I don't think it will have this profound impact on the polls is that

01:28:57.540 you got to remember here in Georgia, you know, for, for really since Herschel Walker got

01:29:02.820 in the race, even before he got in the race, there were reports about violence against

01:29:06.700 women, including his ex-wife, um, threats to police officers, um, erratic behavior, blunders

01:29:13.580 on the campaign trail, um, exaggerations about his business record and his academic experience,

01:29:18.260 all that.

01:29:18.960 And so when you, when you add these, these reports that he paid for a girlfriend's abortion

01:29:25.720 in 2009, I think it cemented and solidified, you know, his, his opponents, you know, support

01:29:32.000 for Raphael Warnock.

01:29:32.920 But it's hard to say that that could, that's going to change a lot of minds because there's

01:29:36.740 already so much other evidence for his critics not to support him that they were already,

01:29:41.520 they already had other reasons to, right.

01:29:43.360 Um, and, and generally to me, at least it broke down in three different camps to Republicans.

01:29:47.780 There was Republicans, a big group of Republicans who didn't believe it.

01:29:50.800 Who'd just say this close to an election, don't believe anything.

01:29:52.980 You know, uh, there's other Republicans who, who might believe it, who say they, they,

01:29:57.220 they could see it, those reports being accurate, but Republican control of the Senate is paramount

01:30:02.740 to them.

01:30:03.480 Um, and they know he, or they at least are confident he would be a solid vote for Mitch

01:30:07.460 McConnell.

01:30:07.980 And then there's that group of Republicans, those swing voters, um, who are voting for

01:30:12.780 Kemp too.

01:30:13.740 You know, we, we've, we've picked this up in polls for months now, but 8% in our last

01:30:18.120 poll of Kemp supporters, 9% of Kemp supporters say they're voting for Raphael Warnock and

01:30:22.520 another five or 6% are saying they're voting for the third party candidate.

01:30:26.060 Those are the, in a close race like this, those are the types of voters that could either put,

01:30:31.420 you know, one camp over the other, over the top, or a more likely possibility force this

01:30:37.040 race into a runoff by giving the libertarians.

01:30:39.500 Oh wait, Sam, I'm going to get out of the runoff.

01:30:40.980 The Georgia runoff is so annoying, but, um, can you, can you just explain why, why would

01:30:45.380 a Republican voter in Georgia, even before these scandals broke say, I want Kemp, but

01:30:51.380 I don't want Walker.

01:30:52.440 I'm actually going to vote for Raphael Warnock and for Brian Kemp.

01:30:56.360 Or in some cases, just under vote, just not vote.

01:30:58.940 You know, I've talked to voters like that.

01:31:00.540 Well, it's because there's, there's a, there's a skepticism towards whether Herschel Walker

01:31:05.120 is fit for office.

01:31:06.680 Um, you know, there, his, his ex-wife, Cindy Grossman is being aired in TV ads on footage

01:31:12.620 of a 2000 and an interview about 15 years ago, where she's talking about his threats

01:31:17.640 to choke and, and, and point a gun at her head and choke her.

01:31:21.000 Um, there've been a lot of blunders on the campaign drill, um, that even, you know, Herschel

01:31:25.560 Walker's camp has acknowledged just, you know, statements, strange, strange meanderings

01:31:29.760 around policies, um, quotes about bad air, things like that, that have made national news,

01:31:34.560 um, and, and that have seeped into the consciousness of the electorate here, right.

01:31:38.500 That even his biggest supporters, uh, have heard of and know about, and there's been

01:31:42.840 reports about business exaggerations about, uh, you know, his false claims of graduating

01:31:48.400 from college and things like that.

01:31:50.280 You also have to remember he is, you know, he's not just a, seen as a great athlete here.

01:31:55.040 He's seen as a legendary athlete.

01:31:56.540 So he entered that race with an almost a hundred percent name recognition, or at least very,

01:32:01.400 very high, close to a hundred percent.

01:32:02.820 Um, because even folks like me who, whose parents didn't watch, didn't care about college

01:32:07.820 football growing up.

01:32:08.800 And now of course I'm a huge Georgia football fan, but they weren't.

01:32:11.880 I still grew up hearing stories of Herschel Walker.

01:32:15.080 I have democratic friends who's named, who named their dogs, Herschel Walker, or whose

01:32:20.200 garage codes are 3434, his number.

01:32:22.540 So, you know, he is part of the, the social fabric here in Georgia.

01:32:27.500 And that's when he entered, then there's, there's Democrats who said if he had run as a Democrat,

01:32:31.060 he would have wiped the floor, the floor clean with whoever he was going against.

01:32:34.520 And so that's the advantage he came with.

01:32:35.920 But there's, there are those voters who are still concerned about where he stands on issues

01:32:40.360 and about his past and about, and about the future of a U S Senate.

01:32:43.780 If he, if he's a member of that body.

01:32:46.140 Hmm.

01:32:46.680 All right.

01:32:47.140 Can you explain the Georgia runoff?

01:32:48.900 This is how we got Raphael worn out to begin with, right?

01:32:51.920 So what's the, why is Georgia so much different than most, is it all other states?

01:32:56.380 Who else does runoffs?

01:32:57.280 I don't know.

01:32:57.560 There's a few other states, but it certainly is a, it's a headache down here because that

01:33:01.700 just means extra weeks of TV ads.

01:33:04.480 I guess it's good for the TV stations, but in Georgia, the state law requires a candidate

01:33:09.200 to win more than 50% of the vote.

01:33:10.800 So 50% plus one.

01:33:12.020 And when you have a third party candidate, that's very, it makes it a lot less likely.

01:33:16.180 And so in 2018, what Stacey Abrams was really gunning for was not an outright victory.

01:33:21.680 Cause you, as you mentioned earlier, it was 55,000 or so votes between her and Governor

01:33:25.060 Kemp, but she wanted to close that gap to force a runoff because in a runoff, there's

01:33:28.960 a sense that basically there's a reset of the race and runoffs in Georgia used to be

01:33:32.800 nine weeks long.

01:33:33.820 The new state law changed into four weeks.

01:33:36.520 So that's why in 2020 slash 2021, our runoff wasn't until January 5th.

01:33:42.200 In fact, David Perdue technically wasn't a member of the Senate for three days because

01:33:46.920 his term expired a few days earlier before that election.

01:33:50.300 So it's a very bizarre law.

01:33:51.740 Thankfully they, they, they shortened that window, but it's still, you know, it's still

01:33:55.540 a lot more, still an extra round and in a race like this one, if Senate control is back

01:34:00.640 up for, uh, you know, hanging in the balance, then we'll see, you know, we, we saw almost

01:34:05.980 a billion dollars in 2020 campaigns spent on our races.

01:34:09.460 We could, we've already seen more than $300 million.

01:34:11.840 It could easily exceed half a billion dollars if Senate control is back up on the line.

01:34:16.660 Do we think it's likely going to go to a runoff?

01:34:18.660 Does that, does that seem probable?

01:34:21.640 That's my hunch right now, Megan, because if you've seen the polls, you know, even, even

01:34:25.340 the ones that are favorable to Warnock or, or Walker, uh, rarely, if ever, either of the

01:34:30.660 candidates above 50%, only a few outliers show either one of them above 50%.

01:34:34.380 They continue to show that the libertarian polling stronger than you libertarians usually

01:34:39.520 do.

01:34:40.400 You libertarians in Georgia usually get at one, 1%, 2%.

01:34:43.680 In this case, Chase Oliver is more like three or four.

01:34:46.540 And we think that's because of Republican protest votes of Republicans who don't want to vote

01:34:50.660 for Raphael Warnock, don't want to skip it altogether and are voting for the libertarian

01:34:55.000 who held his own in a debate on Sunday with, with, uh, with, with Raphael Warnock.

01:34:59.780 Hershel Walker was a no show at that debate, but the libertarian, um, didn't do much to damage

01:35:04.060 his causes with any of those, uh, up in the air voters.

01:35:06.780 So if he goes away and it's a runoff between Warnock and Walker, do we presume that the

01:35:12.680 libertarians will vote Republican?

01:35:15.120 We presume, or, you know, in some cases they just stay home because they're, they're disgusted

01:35:19.900 with the two-party system, right?

01:35:21.160 We've talked to plenty like that, but in a, in a runoff situation, of course, turnouts

01:35:24.840 lower than normal, but again, all bets are off because usually Republicans have won every

01:35:30.500 statewide runoff in, in, in Georgia's history until, until the 2021 runoff, until Raphael Warnock

01:35:36.160 and John Ossoff both swept their runoffs.

01:35:38.700 And that's because usually we see an older, whiter, less diverse electorate that shows

01:35:43.180 up for these lower turnout affairs.

01:35:45.760 But in a race like this, it ain't, it's not going to be, you know, it's not going to catch

01:35:49.400 anyone off guard.

01:35:50.460 It'll be hard to, to, you know, be an infant in Georgia without knowing that there's a

01:35:54.740 runoff coming up if that's the case.

01:35:56.780 Well, what happened?

01:35:57.340 I mean, Georgia, I know, you know, like Virginia turned blue kind of when I was living there

01:36:02.740 back in 2003, it was all these rich people from Washington, DC and the beltway saying,

01:36:09.000 oh, Virginia is really pretty.

01:36:09.980 Let's move there.

01:36:10.580 And so while it had been more rural and more Republican, it got all these, you know, sort

01:36:14.300 of liberals moving out there and it became blue, not just purple, but blue.

01:36:18.040 Georgia doesn't seem to me to have had that happen to it.

01:36:22.080 I thought, and you correct me, um, that it was Stacey Abrams while she didn't win, she did

01:36:26.680 a great job of registering new democratic voters who hadn't been voting prior in particular

01:36:31.720 in the black community, which has made Georgia more purple.

01:36:34.700 But am I misguided?

01:36:36.720 I mean, in part, so Georgia used to be solidly democratic, like most states in the deep South.

01:36:41.640 And then it was in 22, 2002, where Sonny Perdue became the first Republican governor elected

01:36:46.060 in Georgia since reconstruction.

01:36:47.840 That changed the ball game.

01:36:49.340 Um, and then for about 20 years, Republicans ruled everything until, until recently, but

01:36:53.340 the biggest shift has been in the suburbs.

01:36:55.340 The fact that suburban voters, and as I mentioned earlier, becoming more diverse, um, that they've

01:37:00.700 shifted back to the democratic party, that, that has changed the ball game here.

01:37:04.580 And of course, Stacey Abrams efforts to energize minority voters by, by embracing progressive

01:37:09.880 issues that Democrats used to not talk about in Georgia, that has also changed the ball game

01:37:14.400 here.

01:37:15.160 Hmm.

01:37:15.840 Well, we'll see if they respond to abortion is the answer to inflation, which they're

01:37:20.840 going to be hearing a lot of over the next month.

01:37:23.620 Greg, what a pleasure.

01:37:24.580 Thank you so much.

01:37:25.820 Thank you so much for having me, Megan.

01:37:26.900 So last night I'm sitting in my family room and I'm eating Haagen-Dazs chocolate, chocolate

01:37:33.200 chip right out of the container.

01:37:34.700 It was amazing.

01:37:35.640 And my little Strudwick comes over to me and you know, most dogs, they look at you with

01:37:40.120 the sad eyes.

01:37:40.820 He came, he walked right up.

01:37:42.420 He put his paws up and started licking my bowl.

01:37:46.020 He was licking my ice cream right.

01:37:47.780 I'm like, get down.

01:37:48.940 You bad boy.

01:37:50.320 He's not even sorry.

01:37:51.660 You know, he's just like, what?

01:37:52.960 What's your problem?

01:37:53.840 Share.

01:37:54.100 And if you would like more Strudwick stories, you can sign up for our American News Minute

01:37:57.660 at megankelly.com.

01:37:59.720 And don't miss tomorrow because we've got Dave Burke, rumored to be the inspiration for

01:38:03.080 Tom Cruise and Top Gun.

01:38:06.600 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:38:08.740 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - October 19, 2022

Meghan Markle's Rise and Lies, and Stacey Abrams' Vulnerabilities, with Mike Rowe and Greg Bluestein ｜ Ep. 415

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