The Megyn Kelly Show - December 27, 2025


Megyn Kelly is Joined By Doug Brunt To Talk About His New Book, and the Importance of Laughter in Marriage


Episode Stats

Length

54 minutes

Words per Minute

216.31717

Word Count

11,736

Sentence Count

1,130

Misogynist Sentences

6

Hate Speech Sentences

14


Summary

The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel, Romanov s Revolutionaries, and the Forgotten Titan Who Fueled the World by Doug Brunt and the author of the upcoming book, The Lost Empire: The Story of the Noble Family and the Man Who Created the Nobel Prize.


Transcript

00:00:00.440 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.
00:00:12.120 I'm joined now by a very special guest, a New York Times bestselling author, host of the excellent podcast dedicated with Doug Brunt,
00:00:18.420 and the author of the upcoming book, The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel, Romanov's Revolutionaries and the Forgotten Titan.
00:00:30.000 Who Fueled the World. Doug happens to be my husband as well, so that worked out well. Hi, honey.
00:00:35.480 Hi. It's great to be here.
00:00:36.680 Congrats. So here is the galley copy of the new book, which is just so cool looking. It's beautiful.
00:00:43.880 The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel. And it looks kind of similar, similar style to your last big New York Times bestseller,
00:00:51.820 The Mysterious Case of Rudolf Diesel. Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel will not be available until May,
00:00:57.800 but they can pre-order it today, have it in time for Father's Day.
00:01:02.380 Yeah.
00:01:02.880 And tell us what The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel is about.
00:01:05.960 Well, getting the galleys is such a nice moment. We open the box, you know, as a family around the dining room table,
00:01:11.120 and you pull them out and you see it and you hold it in your hands after years of working on it.
00:01:14.280 It is a companion book to the Diesel book. Emmanuel Nobel has an appearance in the Rudolf Diesel story.
00:01:19.880 But you don't have to have read Diesel in order to read this book.
00:01:22.660 It can be out of sequence. And in fact, I haven't said this really. The only people who know
00:01:26.320 this next piece are you and my editor and a few people in archives around the world. But I'm
00:01:30.920 working on a third, which will be, will complete a trilogy of these three turn-of-the-century
00:01:35.500 characters. Emmanuel Nobel essentially established the Russian oil industry along the Caspian Sea in
00:01:42.300 Southern Russia. So by 1900, he and his family had built an oil business larger than standard oil.
00:01:48.220 And in World War I, he controlled more oil than anyone else on the planet. So it was this huge
00:01:52.340 prize sitting in Southern Russia that Germany, the Brits, the Bolsheviks, you know, the communists,
00:01:58.600 Japan, everybody wanted to get to the Nobel oil because they had essentially developed a whole
00:02:03.460 oil infrastructure that was superior to anything else in the world.
00:02:07.600 Superior to Rockefeller. That's crazy.
00:02:09.140 Even to Rockefeller. And yet, for reasons explained in the book, Nobel has been obliterated from history.
00:02:15.700 Totally.
00:02:15.960 This brings him back to life and tells the story.
00:02:17.800 The only Nobel anybody knows is Alfred Nobel, who started the Nobel Prizes. This is Emmanuel
00:02:23.220 Nobel, his nephew, built a totally different, bigger fortune that has been totally forgotten,
00:02:30.540 wiped out. His name is not really known at all in connection with the awards. That's all the
00:02:34.400 Uncle Alfred who did dynamite. That was his business. And it's, it's, do you reveal why? But I mean,
00:02:41.320 a little, I mean, it has to, of course, the, the, when the communists took over Stalin and Lenin,
00:02:45.500 they nationalized all these businesses, but everyone, even in that time, even when the
00:02:49.780 Bolsheviks had taken over, everyone thought the communists are going to last about three days.
00:02:52.940 And so there's an interesting negotiation between Standard Oil and Rockefeller and Nobel about all
00:02:58.260 these Russian assets of petroleum, what to do with them. Cause nobody believes Lenin's going to
00:03:02.800 last. And with regard to the prize though, so Alfred Nobel and the Prizes, he was, he was an
00:03:09.120 investor in the oil business of his brothers and nephew, but the prize wouldn't exist if it wasn't
00:03:14.080 for Emmanuel either. And there are two funny stories about that. When Emmanuel's father, Ludwig,
00:03:18.640 dies, Alfred and Ludwig are huge celebrities around the world. And the newspapers in France where
00:03:23.660 Alfred lives mistakes who's died. They thought Alfred died. So they print this obituary for Alfred
00:03:29.740 Nobel calling him, you know, as the inventor of dynamite, this merchant of death and caused more,
00:03:34.280 you know, killing than anyone in history. And so he reads his own obituary and thinks,
00:03:38.120 holy crap, you know, I need to, this can't be how I'm remembered. And so he changes his will
00:03:43.320 to establish the prize and gives, you know, tons of his money away. And of course all his,
00:03:47.640 you know, after he dies, all the other Nobel people are like, you must be joking. Like the fortune's
00:03:51.520 going to this crazy prize, including the King of Sweden who pulls out Emmanuel aside and Emmanuel's in
00:03:57.960 charge of the estate basically for his uncle, Alfred and the prize. And every one of the
00:04:01.160 family's fighting it. The King of Sweden is like, you don't want to pay attention to these crazy
00:04:04.420 pacifists. This is nonsense. You know, you should take care of your family and put all the money
00:04:08.500 toward that. So Emmanuel stands up to the King of Sweden and says, no, no, no, we're going to,
00:04:12.140 you know, I'm taking my role as the executor of his will. Seriously, we're going to have the prize.
00:04:16.760 And so he, at the last second, rescues the prize.
00:04:19.760 Had it not been for Emmanuel Houston. But the funny thing is, is it's like, you think about,
00:04:23.560 you know, Russia and you know, they've got one huge asset. Well, two, one is oil and two is their
00:04:29.780 ability to mess with you online, right? Like those are two big assets that they have. Those are their
00:04:34.600 two primary weapons. There's also the matter of nuclear weapons, but in any event, this is their
00:04:38.840 main source of income is their petroleum industry. And it wasn't theirs and they didn't invent it.
00:04:44.300 And actually nobody was doing it at all in Russia until Emmanuel Nobel came along and it was like,
00:04:49.080 hey, look at all this stuff. This actually looks quite interesting.
00:04:53.400 When they first bought land in the Caucasus near, in present day Azerbaijan along the Caspian Sea,
00:04:58.820 people were skimming oil out of puddles. There was no drilling, you know, any wells that were dug
00:05:03.880 were dug by hand with spades. So they come down there with great, they are chemists and engineers
00:05:08.720 by trade. And so they come down there and they completely turn it around. But this was in the 1870s,
00:05:12.940 the time of the czars. So the book has these amazing detours through history that include
00:05:17.260 the Rothschilds and Rockefellers and Dostoevsky and Fabergé.
00:05:21.340 And tons on Stalin. I learned so much about Joseph Stalin that I did not know.
00:05:25.260 And you personalize his backstory in a way that I didn't know. Like, how did he grow up to be this
00:05:29.260 murderous, crazy dude? And now I know. I mean, you actually have a lot of backstory on Stalin.
00:05:33.940 You see the rise of these two men, very, very different in character, but in strength,
00:05:38.780 they were equals for a long, long time, Emmanuel Nobel and Joseph Stalin. So you learn a ton about
00:05:44.800 world history, about Russia. Everything that Russia is today is explained in this book.
00:05:50.220 Like, but you don't feel like you're learning. You feel like you're just getting a, like a caper.
00:05:54.520 Well, yeah, it's written ideally in a very novelistic way. It's a ripping read. I mean,
00:05:58.140 you go through it, but it has these fun detours, but it is a piece of history. And Stalin, as you say,
00:06:03.220 grew up as a neighbor to Nobel in Southern Russia. He grew up in Georgia, which is between the Black Sea and
00:06:07.980 the Caspian Sea. And he actually worked in the oil fields of the Nobels and the Rothschilds,
00:06:11.780 another big figure in Russian oil. And so Emmanuel Nobel and Joseph Stalin, they're sort of like
00:06:17.860 these counterpoints to each other. And Stalin is looking at these oil capitalists, industrialists
00:06:23.820 with envy and hatred. And, you know, ultimately, you know, the whole book brings this collision,
00:06:29.120 you know, is coming.
00:06:30.120 Yeah. He was looking at Nobel's oil the same way Zoran Mamdani is looking at the billionaires in New
00:06:36.040 York. All right. Now, so don't forget, it's called The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel by Douglas Brunt.
00:06:41.380 You can get your pre-order right now. That would help Doug out and yours truly,
00:06:45.280 because I'd love to see the book be a success.
00:06:46.780 And avoid the Mayhem of pub day. Like, Diesel sold out. People couldn't get it for like two
00:06:49.560 months because, you know, Simon & Schuster had to go back and print more copies. If you pre-order
00:06:53.520 it now, it shows up on your doorstep or your bookstore has it.
00:06:56.240 It's all easy.
00:06:56.920 You don't have to wait. And that's happening right now with Charlie's book where they've
00:06:59.600 already sold out.
00:07:00.280 Yeah. You're going to have to wait months for his book.
00:07:01.720 They always underestimate anybody who's conservative or married to a conservative.
00:07:06.520 Conservative adjacent.
00:07:07.320 Yeah, they do because they just assume there's no audience for that because that's not the world in
00:07:10.480 which these book publishers live. So it's called The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel. Get your copy
00:07:15.260 now. Now, more importantly, what do we have here with us?
00:07:18.520 Yes, my God.
00:07:19.020 And explain what happens on Dedicated.
00:07:20.760 All right. First, we've got, we have our Jack Carr tumblers with the, I don't know if it can show up
00:07:24.860 here with the ice, but it's got the Tomahawk Navy SEAL thing. So shout out to Jack Carr.
00:07:28.920 Merry Christmas.
00:07:30.300 Thank you for the glasses. We're going to have a little traditional eggnog with bourbon.
00:07:34.320 It's organic. It's healthy.
00:07:35.960 Locale organic.
00:07:36.760 It's like having an egg.
00:07:37.820 We learned that lesson a few years ago.
00:07:39.820 Yes, exactly.
00:07:41.180 We'll do it with rye. Michter's rye.
00:07:43.640 Yeah. What do you, what officially goes in a, in an eggnog?
00:07:47.320 Some people do bourbon, some do rum, some do both.
00:07:50.460 And what are we doing?
00:07:51.700 Well, rye, which is basically bourbon.
00:07:53.360 Okay. The reason that we're doing this is a, it's eggnog and why not? It's that time of year.
00:07:57.640 But B on Doug's podcast, which is called dedicated with Doug Brunt, uh, where he interviews authors.
00:08:03.840 He both interviews authors and talks about their books. And he always pours a cocktail of choice.
00:08:08.260 Could be, could be virgin, could be alcoholic. This one happens to be alcoholic.
00:08:12.940 It's almost, almost always alcoholic. Thank God. And everyone drinks the drink.
00:08:16.720 Michael Lewis was on the other day and he's like, do people actually drink the drink?
00:08:19.700 He had a Sazerac by the way, which is like the New Orleans cocktail.
00:08:23.020 Sazerac.
00:08:23.380 Yeah. It's basically similar to an old fashioned.
00:08:26.340 Now he's doing the nutmeg.
00:08:27.720 Nutmeg over the.
00:08:29.060 Didn't we do this last year?
00:08:30.220 Didn't we do the eggnog last year?
00:08:31.740 We did. I think I had to read your ad by the end or maybe that was a different show.
00:08:35.680 Cheers honey. Merry Christmas.
00:08:36.560 Cheers honey. Love you.
00:08:42.000 Oh yeah. That's tasty.
00:08:43.240 Our first eggnog of the season.
00:08:44.940 That's delicious. I know. Well done. Yeah. No. And we talked about how that one year
00:08:48.360 we were drinking eggnogs like they were going out of style when we were young. We didn't have kids
00:08:52.000 and we both blew up like ticks. We were huge.
00:08:55.800 Looking in the mirror, like something's changed in our diet.
00:08:58.460 Is it possible? It's the eggnog.
00:09:00.660 The full fat eggnog.
00:09:01.680 And then we looked at the nutritional information on the box.
00:09:05.560 Which by the way, the low fat isn't, isn't a whole lot better.
00:09:08.000 What is it? What does it say?
00:09:08.760 Well, 150 calories, you know, a lot of cholesterol in there.
00:09:13.520 Yeah.
00:09:14.080 A lot of sodium in there.
00:09:15.120 Oh, really? Sodium.
00:09:16.680 Decent amount of sugar.
00:09:17.300 Nothing is worse than, than the Martha Stewart recipe. I mentioned this to you this morning over coffee.
00:09:22.000 I just saw it on X. Steve, I'll send it to you. We had to drop it in for the listening audience.
00:09:26.600 This thing was loaded with alcohol. First of all, it was like so many eggs and so much sugar and so
00:09:31.740 much heavy cream. And then on top of that, it was like three cups of bourbon, three cups of rum,
00:09:37.060 and three cups of another alcohol.
00:09:39.300 Martha gets after it.
00:09:40.280 You're phoning it in with this ride business.
00:09:42.340 I know, exactly. She's putting me to shame.
00:09:43.040 I don't know what you were thinking, you know? Usually men are trying to get women intoxicated.
00:09:47.200 You're on set. You can't like, well, we can definitely add more booze, but getting involved
00:09:50.720 in eggs and cream and stuff, we're not going to do that here.
00:09:53.080 No, you don't want egg cream of any kind. And she, she stuffed the yolks in there too. It was
00:09:56.400 pretty nasty. So we're getting ready for our holidays. What have you been doing to get
00:10:01.680 ready?
00:10:02.860 I said a few present suggestions, which is more than I normally do.
00:10:06.680 I'm only laughing because every woman knows that's a joke.
00:10:10.140 I, uh, and every guy gets defensive.
00:10:14.620 No, we kind of have our shared responsibilities, I would say, but generally the Christmas shopping
00:10:18.740 is on my list because of, because I want it to be.
00:10:21.360 Yeah. Well, you're so good at it. It's amazing. It's like a, you know, Santa Claus threw up
00:10:25.860 under the tree. There's like a million presents everywhere.
00:10:27.620 He helps me. And that's why I have, I have an ace in the hole. I have a secret weapon.
00:10:32.200 You have a little elf up in the North.
00:10:33.400 Yeah. So I don't really need Doug Brun's help because I've got Santa.
00:10:36.680 Although I do help a little.
00:10:38.020 You do help. But we were talking a little bit about our Christmas traditions. I was
00:10:41.780 doing this for Steven Crowder and, um, there's so many that we do. Like we go to Montana every
00:10:46.000 year and there's a bunch of stuff we do over there. But what would you say? Like I've asked
00:10:49.620 what, what's our top or what's our, a couple of top Christmas traditions that we have?
00:10:53.380 I mean, well, we, we're still, you know, earmuffs on the kids. We're still firing away with
00:10:57.760 the elf every morning and the, and the, uh, Advent.
00:11:02.060 They know.
00:11:02.280 Wow. And we try to carol as much as possible, but that's not every year. We do have a great,
00:11:08.480 like almost 20 years tradition of getting lunch with a particular group of friends in
00:11:12.880 the city. It used to be at the 21 club. Hello. That's got to open back up. It does.
00:11:16.660 It's the 21 club. Yep. Um, but we, we have found new venues for that.
00:11:20.960 Wait a minute. What was the second thing you said?
00:11:23.780 The Advent calendar?
00:11:24.800 The caroling.
00:11:25.260 Oh, the caroling.
00:11:25.940 Do we really?
00:11:26.720 That's not really traditional. I say that's not an annual.
00:11:28.160 Did we reveal what happened last year when we caroled?
00:11:32.260 Yes. It's embarrassing, but it's a funny story.
00:11:34.340 It's a disaster.
00:11:35.340 Yeah.
00:11:35.760 No one wanted us.
00:11:37.040 Well, our first stop was actually pretty good. They were amazed. They're like, this is so great.
00:11:40.340 And we kind of knew them and they thought this is great. And the other dad was like,
00:11:44.400 I'm coming with you. And he turns around, it's like, let's go. And they're like,
00:11:47.340 screw you dad. He's like, next year, maybe I can join you.
00:11:50.480 Yeah.
00:11:51.140 But he was totally supportive.
00:11:52.320 It was just the five of us.
00:11:53.680 Yeah. Just the five of our family. And so then we go to the next house from that point forward,
00:11:57.100 it went down. Like, nobody really wants it. They're like, it's cold outside. Why do I have
00:12:00.300 to stand by this open door?
00:12:01.820 There was one moment where we were waiting across the street. We had our Santa hats on. We were
00:12:06.320 freezing. And this SUV drove by with the window down and just kind of waved at us. And we were
00:12:11.740 like, chicka bell, chicka bell, chicka bell. Shaking the bell at them.
00:12:15.680 It was like an assault of Christmas carols.
00:12:19.100 It's hard to get an audience.
00:12:20.080 Everyone was kind of like trying to squeeze the door closed, kind of like, I've got some people
00:12:23.280 inside. Yeah.
00:12:24.100 Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't, it wasn't the greatest doubting. It's probably not going to be a
00:12:27.060 tradition, but I think I'm thinking of things like when we watch, it's a wonderful life.
00:12:31.960 Oh yeah. Yeah. So actually you drive, in addition to getting the presents, you do drive a lot
00:12:36.180 of these things. We do, it's a wonderful life.
00:12:37.380 But everyone's a gamer.
00:12:38.200 With the salt and the bread and the whole bit and, you know, ringing the bell when Clarence
00:12:42.640 makes an appearance on screen.
00:12:44.840 And hissing when Potter.
00:12:46.320 You and I, like the greatest tradition, bar none of, you know, Christmas aside, you and I start
00:12:50.640 every morning with a cup of coffee. We've got the coffee machine in the bedroom. It's set
00:12:54.920 the night before with the alarm. It goes off and we start each day with 20 minutes together,
00:12:58.920 talking, having coffee. Sometimes listening to AM update, but other times watching Christmas
00:13:03.260 in Connecticut for a few minutes to start the day. It's just an awesome way to enter the
00:13:06.860 day and enter the world, you know, having connected a little bit.
00:13:09.860 It's so true. And right now we have a little tree in our bedroom. We've got some Christmas
00:13:14.560 lights and that, that makes it magical too. You know, like turn that on. The only thing Doug
00:13:19.120 and I argue about in the bedroom is the temperature.
00:13:22.440 Yes.
00:13:22.980 Right?
00:13:23.240 Yeah.
00:13:23.860 So now we both like it cool when we sleep. That makes sense. Everybody should have it.
00:13:27.700 They say 68 degrees. It's good for your health. It's good for your sleep. But Doug would like
00:13:33.620 the thermometer to be turned down much earlier in the evening so that it's like cold when
00:13:39.020 we arrive.
00:13:39.900 Yes. That makes me irritable. We climb in bed. I'm like, it's so effing hot in here.
00:13:43.720 And I'm like, it's freezing because you can't function in there when it's, it's 68 degrees.
00:13:48.080 Like when you're doing your nighttime routine, you're washing your face, you're in your night
00:13:51.620 gown, you're freezing your ass off if it's 68 degrees.
00:13:54.980 You've got a heated floor though. You should just sort of like get low.
00:13:57.500 That is a luxury by the way. When we bought the house, it had a heated floor. I've never
00:14:00.340 had that. And it's, it's wonderful.
00:14:01.580 It makes a nice difference.
00:14:02.780 Damn. Damn. As they say. So we're going to go to Montana. It's not snowy there, unfortunately.
00:14:08.980 No. Early, early conditions, but you know.
00:14:11.540 Is that a blessing?
00:14:11.840 They're making some. Yes. For me, like I'm, I'm happy to do a couple of groom blues and
00:14:16.340 then go sit by the fire, play poker with the kids and like never get out of pajamas. Like
00:14:21.100 a couple of days like that would be great.
00:14:22.540 It doesn't that sound like heaven on earth for two weeks. It's going out there. We've got
00:14:26.700 our annual costume night. I recommend this to everybody. You can go big. I mean, obviously
00:14:31.520 I go big because I love costumes, but you can, you can do this on a shoestring budget too.
00:14:36.040 You just go to the local costume store and you get a couple of costumes for your family.
00:14:39.800 It does not have to be fancy, but it needs to be a theme. It needs to be theme related.
00:14:43.860 And then the way we do it in our family is on costume night. I like controlling it. So
00:14:49.040 I'll put out the costumes on people's beds. You'll keep the kids busy. They all know it's
00:14:54.060 costume night.
00:14:54.240 It's super fun because nobody knows what the theme is. Meg plans this every single year.
00:14:58.000 And then the theme's amazing. One year was back to the future. One year we had watched
00:15:01.660 the 10 commandments. So I, you know, I was Moses and someone was the various Kings.
00:15:06.440 You were the best most. Oh, look, here's back to the future.
00:15:08.500 Oh, nice. Blurred the kids, kids faces. You were the best McFly. You were George McFly,
00:15:13.240 the dad. Oh yeah.
00:15:14.360 It was Marty. And you, oh, you've got to do your imitation. Can you do your George McFly
00:15:18.360 imitation?
00:15:23.260 All right. Take your damn hands off her.
00:15:29.780 I don't know if I nailed that.
00:15:30.980 You did. I love it. And then we did Moses. We did 10 commandments and you made an amazing
00:15:35.840 Moses. Years early. This was good. I mean, this, we went all out for the Moses. We got
00:15:41.660 Pharaoh represented. We got Zephia.
00:15:45.100 If there's no one in the family who does this amount of planning as you do, which is amazing
00:15:49.020 because everyone fully appreciates, but even like a wig night is kind of fun. If you're
00:15:53.360 recommending to the audience, we have a closet full of wigs.
00:15:57.340 It's true.
00:15:57.760 And it's fun just to like, I don't know.
00:15:59.280 Somehow things are more fun in wigs.
00:16:01.460 Yeah.
00:16:01.660 Right. It's like, you could just be eating your dinner. We don't actually do anything. Like
00:16:04.820 somebody's asking, what do you do on costume? We're like, nothing. We just put them on.
00:16:09.400 Laugh at each other.
00:16:10.380 There's the Wonka. That was a great one. Here's the funny story about these two people
00:16:13.840 in there as Violet Beauregard and Augustus Gloop. They've since become dear friends of ours,
00:16:19.780 but that night we didn't know them at all. So we were expecting two family members who then
00:16:25.220 couldn't come. It was like right after COVID, that was either 2020 or 2021. It was right when things
00:16:30.360 were still nutty because of COVID and their flights got canceled. And these two go to our
00:16:35.760 school and we had just met them and we're like, so would you like to come for dinner? They're
00:16:40.440 like, sure. We'd love to. And we're like, could you wear some weird costumes?
00:16:45.060 That's not exactly how it goes. There's no could you wear. It's like, here's, she,
00:16:48.820 Meg like lays down the law. When you cross that threshold, you're in her world. And she says,
00:16:54.180 off you go. And here's your costume and don't come back out until it's on.
00:16:57.320 It's kind of the price of admission. Anyway, and we realized too late that Augustus Gloop
00:17:01.740 winds up looking a little like Hitler Youth. He's in like a little military outfit with the
00:17:07.260 blonde wig. Yeah, it's very like Australian.
00:17:09.740 Our friends, Lisa and Chris, were such good sports. They donned the outfits and it was such
00:17:14.900 a fun thing. I think he sort of entered with a little trepidation, but mid-dinner was loving it.
00:17:19.100 Once we got the liquor flowing. Well, that helps with all costumes and wigs.
00:17:22.540 But no, so the other piece of costume night is just to order a background from Amazon. So if you
00:17:28.540 go on Amazon and you type in 10 commandments or you type in back to the future backdrop,
00:17:34.600 you will pull up so many options for 40 bucks or under like 40 bucks for the big one for eight by 10.
00:17:41.220 But if you want to go smaller, it's much cheaper. Anyway, my point is simply for under 150 bucks,
00:17:47.260 you could probably get everybody in your family in a costume and with a backdrop. And that's really the
00:17:52.120 end of it. So we'll try to sometimes do like the food that's themed appropriately. If like that
00:17:56.660 night, one year we did Karate Kid, Cobra Kai. Yeah, that was great. We had Asian that night.
00:18:01.760 That's about as much as what, you know, it's not that like, then you just sit there and you laugh.
00:18:06.620 Specials. Yeah. Oh, we did have John Kreese do one of those.
00:18:09.920 And speaking of like cheap, that was like 30 bucks or something.
00:18:12.520 Yeah. One of those services where you can pay an actor to like say something personalized.
00:18:15.800 Yeah, he's like strike first, you know, getting on with our kids who, by the way,
00:18:19.060 that was the best 30 bucks we ever spent because the kids were totally into it.
00:18:21.780 And he called us the blunts, I think, instead of the brunts.
00:18:24.000 Yeah, he did them wrong for sure.
00:18:24.700 It was close. Whatever. You don't expect perfection from John Kreese.
00:18:27.660 Yeah.
00:18:28.360 Anyway, I can't wait for all of that stuff to start. It's like, that's what makes the two weeks
00:18:32.240 magical. Like the Christmas is the apex of it. But if you put these other things around,
00:18:36.360 then it's not as much of a letdown when Christmas is over.
00:18:39.120 Yeah.
00:18:39.620 You know, he's still something like for you.
00:18:40.320 And it's also that contains, you know, one of the few times of the year where there aren't
00:18:43.380 obligations all over the kids, especially in us. And we get, you know, tons of time together.
00:18:48.100 High quality, low quality, but it all adds up. It's a great time together.
00:18:51.720 Yeah. The poker has become a fun tradition.
00:18:53.680 Yeah.
00:18:54.320 You know, the kids are getting more into Texas Hold'em.
00:18:56.320 We used to be able to beat them more easily.
00:18:57.840 I know.
00:18:58.140 We'd have the big stack in front of us. Now it's insane.
00:18:59.920 Or at least cheat them without them knowing. One or the other. But yeah, no, that's been
00:19:04.080 fun. We got to learn some new games. The kids are now into Texas Hold'em, which I actually,
00:19:08.120 I don't totally know how to play Texas Hold'em. You just hold three cards and you play off of.
00:19:11.640 You hold two and there's, yeah. But it's really, it's like a betting thing. Once you learn how to bet,
00:19:15.800 you're good. It's basically, everything's a poker hand, so.
00:19:18.480 We should try that.
00:19:19.340 Yeah.
00:19:19.600 Let's do that. This time next year, we'll be sitting here talking about how well I did at
00:19:23.240 Texas Hold'em.
00:19:24.140 Done.
00:19:24.540 Okay. So let's talk about the news a little bit, because it's always fun to get your take
00:19:27.840 on it. And I thought, I saw this article yesterday and I was like, this is a good one
00:19:30.160 for Duggar. Here's a headline from the New York Post. Marco Rubio instructs diplomats
00:19:35.560 to use Times New Roman font, eliminating Biden-era DEI initiative. Did you know there's DEI font?
00:19:44.060 I did not. By the way, I don't think the takeaway of this story should be that Calibri is woke.
00:19:49.220 Exactly. But I totally get where Rubio's going on this.
00:19:52.420 Calibri does look a little light in the loafers. I'm sorry.
00:19:55.120 It's a little different, for sure.
00:19:56.280 Times New Roman is like, bald, bald. We're showing it on the screen for the listening,
00:20:00.640 Oh, nice. That's perfect.
00:20:02.280 Calibri is like skinny with softer edges. And it just, it looks a little more feminine, I'd say.
00:20:10.720 Well, look, here's my overall take on this, because I understand what Rubio's doing. I'm sure when
00:20:15.600 people heard about this, you could imagine the attacks, like you're running state and this is
00:20:19.720 what you're going to spend your time on. But it does matter. And you know, firsthand, when I am
00:20:23.560 working on these books, Simon & Schuster and I spend time on the font. Like it's got to match the
00:20:28.720 mission. And you know, it's your, it's your first chance to set the tone, set the atmosphere for the
00:20:35.720 audience that you're engaging.
00:20:37.260 The mood.
00:20:37.740 It's the, it's the last little bit of, you know, connection point that you have. And it,
00:20:41.900 and it does matter. It's why writers, authors, and publishers, and editors actually focus on
00:20:46.260 this. The font of different books looks very different depending on what kind of book it is.
00:20:49.700 Like if you open George R.R. Martin's Game of Thrones and you see Times New Roman, you're going to be
00:20:53.780 like, what is this? Like the best versions of those books look like it was written by an elf,
00:20:58.200 you know, like Bilbo Baggins, like something a little medieval and fanciful. And, you know,
00:21:02.480 especially like the first letter of the chapter should look that way. And so it's Rubio's way of
00:21:08.680 creating a mindset or creating an atmosphere for the information he's putting out there. And you see
00:21:14.640 that dynamic everywhere. It's the same as Bill Bratton's broken windows policing. You know,
00:21:19.920 you walk into a neighborhood that's full of broken windows and graffiti on the walls and trash on the
00:21:23.040 streets, and that creates a mindset and atmosphere for crime. And Bratton and others before
00:21:28.140 him have proven that if you fix the windows, paint the walls, clean up all the trash and have this
00:21:32.020 beautiful neighborhood, you prevent crime before it starts. And it's that same dynamic. It seems like
00:21:36.560 a small thing, but setting that tone, setting the atmosphere matters.
00:21:41.340 Like strong, robust language or whatever font.
00:21:44.860 So I get what he's doing. If he was going to, the only change I would make is he shouldn't go back
00:21:48.540 to Times New Roman. He should do like the Bilbo Baggins handwriting for all of our state
00:21:52.240 communication. But actually that reminds me of a story you were telling me the other day.
00:21:56.700 It's the same thing of like the small tonal things we should value and prioritize them
00:22:01.900 more. Almost we have to invert our thinking that these things are more important. It's like that
00:22:06.900 Jordan Peterson piece that you were showing me.
00:22:08.660 Yeah, that's right. Oh yeah, that was so good. It was a Jordan Peterson soundbite on Instagram
00:22:13.120 where he was saying, yeah, it's great to go to St. Bart's or Aruba and have a margarita,
00:22:18.820 you know, down on the beach. Everybody would love that. But your life, he said in this clip,
00:22:23.960 is how your wife greets you at the end of the day. It's how you are around the dinner table with
00:22:29.080 each other, how you're treating each other, you know, whether you're quote present, you know,
00:22:33.980 but truly it is like, do you feel valued when you walk into the room with your spouse or your kids
00:22:38.360 or your family? Like that, that does make up your life with so many more of our waking hours are
00:22:41.960 spent around that table or that coffee mug than they are down in, you know, Aruba with a mocktail.
00:22:47.960 And they're small and they're often overlooked and it's not, we don't think it was a big deal.
00:22:52.420 And yet we really do need to invert how we think about that because that's the biggest deal. As
00:22:56.600 Peterson points out, that's 80% of your life, those little moments that add up. And so it's,
00:23:01.620 you know, long way of saying, I think that's the same thing Rubio is getting at of like,
00:23:05.820 this is the font they're going to be staring at for 10 hours a day. Like this is an opportunity
00:23:10.920 to set an atmosphere, to set a tone. This is what I want.
00:23:13.740 What is a telegraph?
00:23:14.460 Yeah. So it's not, it's not trivial. It actually is something.
00:23:16.800 Well, this led to a discussion that we had about like, what, who do you want the kids to marry?
00:23:22.460 You know? And I was saying, my God, they, they all have to marry somebody with a good sense of humor.
00:23:26.120 Like number one.
00:23:27.420 Totally.
00:23:28.000 Right. And we were talking about this because it's like.
00:23:30.000 You're so lucky in that regard. Cause I, you know.
00:23:31.900 You're very funny. I am lucky. Yeah. I treasure you.
00:23:35.560 I will concede though. You are actually the funnier of the two.
00:23:38.800 What? That's never been conceded before by anyone.
00:23:41.020 I felt under pressure on air and everything.
00:23:42.580 But no, all fair. I'm going to take it back, but we laugh a lot.
00:23:47.520 Totally. We laugh at each other and our kids are so good. All three of them have developed a
00:23:51.140 different, but awesome sense of humor.
00:23:53.220 Yes. Because it is important. Number one, it's important to laugh at life,
00:23:56.320 but it's almost equally important to be able to laugh at yourself and others. All of those
00:24:01.180 things must be laughed at. It's not cruel. Like it's, it's a stress relief mechanism. I really think
00:24:06.580 it's the, the antidote to cortisol, right? Like just laughing and life provides so many
00:24:11.860 opportunities. It could be just a nothing, but like, we're constantly making fun of ourselves,
00:24:16.400 you know? And I, and I have noticed, I mean, you and I have had these little sidebar
00:24:20.320 conversations when one of our kids isn't hanging in that department. Like he gets made fun of,
00:24:25.200 and you can see like, he's a little pissed off that he got a little made fun of. And we're like,
00:24:30.180 that's not, I mean, we don't pounce on him at that point, but we're like, it's, you know,
00:24:33.700 that's, that's a sign that we need to keep doing that until he gets a little better.
00:24:37.480 Otherwise he's going to, you know, it's not going to work out come college dorm days.
00:24:42.200 That's right. Life is tough. And you really do have to be able to laugh at, at all of it,
00:24:46.120 or you're not going to make it very far. I really feel like, you know, my Nana,
00:24:49.960 I've talked about her on the show too. She, she died at 101. She only ate processed foods.
00:24:54.820 She never exercised a day in her life. Um, so what did she do? She laughed a lot. She was very
00:25:02.720 funny. She had a circle of friends that laughed. She was very quick to make fun of herself first
00:25:08.040 and foremost, but everyone else as well. Like, I do think it's a, it could make the difference
00:25:12.680 between life and death. Totally. Totally. We need to study Nana and we need to study Dick Van Dyke.
00:25:16.900 Whatever those two are doing, I'm going to do all of it. Well, I was a little concerned about Dick
00:25:21.640 Van Dyke's comments about how he made it to a hundred. He said he was like drinking way too much
00:25:25.760 until his fifties. That wasn't the part that concerned me. It was, he said, I was sort of on board
00:25:29.500 with that. He said he's, he's never, it was either, he's never hated anyone or he's never
00:25:34.920 been like rageful. I was like, uh-oh. I don't think he's right about that. You know, people
00:25:41.960 can't self-analyze. They have no idea. We need to analyze him, you know, from the outside. It was
00:25:46.320 all the dancing. It was the dancing. He's skinny. You know, he's a skinny guy. That probably helps a
00:25:50.740 lot. It was totally the old bamboo in Chitty Chitty Bam Bam. Totally. Once you learn that,
00:25:55.640 you keep doing that dance, you live forever. Yeah. How are we going to do that? The old
00:26:00.340 bamboo? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Yes. We have to watch that with the kids. I think they're
00:26:03.300 totally up for it. They haven't, the kids, we used to watch this movie on a loop about
00:26:07.520 10 years ago. You guys know Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. 12 years ago. Yeah. And it's such an
00:26:12.880 amazing movie. It does have that AI haircut. So I saw your tweet on that actually, that this
00:26:17.620 was already invented in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. But the kids, I think, have like foggy memories
00:26:21.780 of it. So I'm excited to see how they see it now. I love all parts of it.
00:26:25.620 I love Truly Scrumptious. I love, love, love Dick Van Dyke. He's just so utterly charming.
00:26:32.320 I love the apparatus he sets up in their house to cook the breakfast, to lift the blankets
00:26:38.680 off the beds. Yeah. It's all great. The villains are great in Bavaria.
00:26:43.060 The whistle thing. Yeah. That's such a great scene. It's like, who even knew? But we had
00:26:48.780 a very funny thing happen with our love of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang over our fake-sgiving holiday
00:26:53.160 where we have the family come for fake Thanksgiving, not the actual day, but it makes it easier on
00:26:58.300 everybody who needs to travel. And we split the family into two groups to play charades.
00:27:03.100 And our side was coming up with the clues for the other side. And then they came up with their clues
00:27:10.360 for us. Now, unbeknownst to our opponents, who are also family members, our family is obsessed with
00:27:17.500 Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. We know a lot about Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. We've seen that movie
00:27:20.600 truly hundreds of times. A hundred times. Yeah, exactly. So there was a joke when we used to watch
00:27:25.880 it. Our oldest, Yates, who was just a little guy at the time, like two or three, he saw this one
00:27:30.560 scene involving this boat and there were these like rounded things on the boat. Like funnels from
00:27:36.420 the top of the boat. Okay. Yeah. And for whatever, and then two bad guys hide themselves later in those
00:27:42.260 funnels and go on land and start spying on people. And for whatever reason, Yates always referred
00:27:46.200 to them as the barrels, the bear. I want to see the barrels. And he would do this with his hands
00:27:50.700 for listening audience. I'm like twinkling my fingers together. It needs to be like the barrels.
00:27:55.760 Well, I got up there and I pulled my clue from the other side and the movie was Chitty Chitty Bang
00:28:02.680 Bang. And you were on my team. So I needed to act this out to you. And of course they're wondering,
00:28:08.440 I'm sure the other side is like, okay, maybe she'll do Bang Bang. How's she going to get this?
00:28:11.740 And all I said was movie. And then I did the finger motion and you were like, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.
00:28:18.860 At which way, there's no convincing them that we haven't been cheating. There's nothing you can
00:28:22.880 say. They're like, no, no, no. You obviously cheated. None whatsoever. And we did crush them.
00:28:27.540 I mean, it was embarrassing. It was brutal. Had to take pity on them.
00:28:30.820 It was brutal. It was so fun. I love charades. What a fun game. Our kids have recently introduced us to a
00:28:36.560 new game. Oh my God. That is so fun. What is that thing called? Impostor. Impostor. Yeah. Yeah. So
00:28:42.360 someone in the group, you can do it on your iPhone, which is actually a great use of the phone for
00:28:46.340 this. So explain it, how it works. Let's see. Oh my God. If there's five of us sitting there,
00:28:51.100 the five of us are sitting there and someone's the imposter and there's a word. And one, everybody
00:28:56.660 has to hold the phone at one point. Like it starts off, I'll explain it.
00:29:00.960 So if I were patient zero of this five person game, but you can play it with, you know, three
00:29:07.840 people too. I think three is probably the fewest you could do it with. Um, five. Yeah. I would say
00:29:12.360 five is five or more would be most fun. Yeah. So you, um, open, you see the phone. I don't know
00:29:18.880 the app. I'll ask the kids, but I'm sure if you Google imposter app, you can get it. And it will say
00:29:23.640 like, you agree as a family on which category you're going to pick. Like there's sports, there's, um,
00:29:29.160 uh, like movies. And, um, we, we pick movies for one. I wasn't, was I the first on that one? No,
00:29:41.260 I wasn't. Okay. So Yardley went first on this one and I think I might take over. No, no, I've got
00:29:47.020 this. I'm going to see me. She got Peppa Pig. That was the clue. So Yardley wasn't the imposter. I
00:29:53.060 was. And so you, when Yardley looked at the phone, it said Yardley and she saw Peppa Pig. Then we
00:29:57.960 handed it to Thatcher and he saw Peppa Pig. Then they handed it to me and I saw imposter.
00:30:02.840 Yes. You have no idea that it's Peppa Pig. You don't know. So when the phone gets handed to you,
00:30:06.440 it says, it just says your name because of the person who starts at just types when the five
00:30:09.640 names are playing. So when it sees, I see Megan, I hit it. And then it either says imposter or it
00:30:14.860 gives me the clue. And then we pass the phone around and then you start guessing. And the way it works
00:30:18.920 is like Yardley went first. And so she said, Oh, I knew we were in like TV and movies. And she said
00:30:24.380 pink. And then the next person said Australia. And so when it got to me, I was the imposter
00:30:31.540 and I thought flamingo. That's what I thought we were going for. So when you're the imposter,
00:30:36.100 you have to try to act like, you know, what it is. You have to, you have to like act like,
00:30:40.160 you know, and the other people have to, when they, when they do know, have to reveal a clue
00:30:45.060 that shows they know, but not so much that they're going to clue in the imposter. So I said feather
00:30:50.520 and you go, mom's the imposter. And everyone started laughing at me. Everyone started laughing
00:30:55.900 because it is. If you're early at the imposter, you don't have enough, you know, if you go late,
00:30:59.880 you might get enough clues that you can sort of dial in on, on what it is. Otherwise you're just
00:31:05.080 sort of throwing darts and hoping to say something that makes any amount of sense to the rest of the
00:31:09.960 group. We are here today with Douglas Brunt promoting his new novel, The Lost Empire of Emmanuel
00:31:14.640 Nobel, even though it doesn't sound like it. You can get it on pre-order right now. It's well worth
00:31:20.840 your time, but that game imposter is worth your time as well. However, be more ambiguous than I was
00:31:27.220 with that whole thing. Now I want to keep going. I want to keep going a little. We're going to keep
00:31:31.940 going past the break a little bit. Sorry, EJ. I'm going to eat into the next hour just a bit.
00:31:36.900 Um, in the news today, well, yesterday, but also today is the fact that they have named a new
00:31:44.400 CBS evening news anchor. Did you know that they were looking for one?
00:31:51.940 The only reason I know anything about this story is you tweeted how irrelevant it is. And I saw your
00:31:59.260 tweet and I'm like, Oh, what's so irrelevant. And it was to Coppel. Yeah. Yeah. Tony to Coppel to
00:32:04.720 Coppel. Do you know anything about Tony to Coppel? I don't. I remember he got in trouble for like
00:32:07.980 doing an interview that pushed back a bit in a way. I don't even remember all the details about
00:32:12.480 it, but I remember he pushed back in a way that seemed like actual journalism and he got some
00:32:15.880 blowback for it. It was a great moment on the morning show. That's the only way I know him,
00:32:19.060 which is a positive, uh, thing to know, I guess, but it is crazy irrelevant. I mean, you and I are the
00:32:25.180 same age. We grew up in, you know, 150 miles apart at the same time, like loving all the same
00:32:31.480 movies, having the same high school experiences and watching one of three evening news anchors.
00:32:37.980 And that's almost how households identified in those times. Like, are you a Jennings house?
00:32:41.720 Are you a Rathers house? Yeah. You know, we were Jennings. You were Jennings. We were Jennings too.
00:32:45.880 And, um, no longer like that's no longer how people, it used to be like, I'm an American,
00:32:50.720 I'm a Christian or a Presbyterian. I'm a whatever that. And I, we watched Jennings. Like it was in the
00:32:55.820 top 10 of things that identify your household and no longer, nobody even cares. Nobody, you know,
00:33:02.060 our age or younger gets news that way. It's so irrelevant, right? It's like, I mean, I would,
00:33:07.060 I know I'm biased, but I think podcasts are far more relevant now. People like they have their
00:33:10.840 loyalty, their allegiance to like this show. If you're going to spend an hour or two a day with
00:33:15.320 somebody, it's not going to be the evening news. My God, why would you, by the way, it used to be
00:33:19.420 like the newspaper the next day was kind of stale from yesterday's news. You know, the immediacy cut
00:33:23.800 because of cable and now be, you know, with the, by the time it's made it through the producers
00:33:28.800 and packaged and written and ready for primetime cable evening news, it's so old.
00:33:35.580 It's so old. Yeah. Um, so I don't think, you know, like that, that all the mainstream media
00:33:40.560 is writing articles like Ken Tony DeCoppo restore CBS to its former glory. I'm like, when, what,
00:33:46.500 what glory? And they're like, can they, can he get them at a third place? The answer is no,
00:33:50.820 he cannot, he can't do that either. Nothing's changing in TV news other than diminishing ratings.
00:33:55.400 Maybe he can do something relatively with the other three, but the three as a unit, like
00:34:00.060 evening news is going only one way, which is down.
00:34:02.940 Yeah. No, one big Tyrannosaurus Rex, only not as scary.
00:34:06.780 We are back now with Doug Brunt. It was a very tough booking for me, but I made it this morning
00:34:11.440 over coffee. He is here promoting his soon to be released, The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel,
00:34:17.640 Romanovs, revolutionaries, and the forgotten Titan who fueled the world. I like that. Not ruled the
00:34:24.580 world. Fueled. Fueled the world. Play on with the font that Rubio would approve of. Well done. Exactly.
00:34:30.480 It's, it's musculature. It's got musculature. Yeah. It gives you a sense of history, turn of the
00:34:35.000 century. Yeah. Except we've changed the cover since then, since this. Yes. Not the font, but we did,
00:34:40.540 we got rid of the Romanovs. Wait, hold on. Okay. There we go. Uh, that lower right picture of the
00:34:45.220 Romanovs. Tsar Nicholas II and his family who were brutally killed. Um, we moved that to the back
00:34:49.780 because it seemed like the cover was a little too busy with that on there. So. It's fun hearing
00:34:52.800 the stories, right? About like how a book that you enjoy or wind up loving changed over time.
00:34:58.380 Yeah. Like from the title to the cover art. Like here. So here is the mysterious case of
00:35:02.660 Rudolph Diesel. This is Doug's bestseller. This book has sold a ton. Um, hugely successful. And it's
00:35:08.960 a mystery about Rudolph Diesel, who was the Elon Musk of his time, who went missing and Doug solved the
00:35:14.340 case. He solved the mystery of what happened to him. And it was not always called the mysterious
00:35:18.780 case of Rudolph Diesel. No, I mean, for months and months, my editor and I were going back and
00:35:22.840 forth. Like we're going to solve this over a bottle of wine. We came up with engines and empires. It's
00:35:26.780 the diesel engine. And I loved it. He loved it. 11th hour. They have a sales meeting with the internal
00:35:31.800 SNS team. Barnes and Noble has a sales team that contributes to this stuff too. The CEO, John Karp of
00:35:36.120 Simon and Schuster. And so I get this call. We've already printed galleys, like what we have for Nobel
00:35:40.780 and it has the engines and empires title. He's like, everyone loves the book. It's charming.
00:35:45.300 It's atmospheric. It takes us to this early Downton Abbey era and a crazy mystery. And it's
00:35:49.540 super fun and great history, except the title. We got to change the title. I'm like, what?
00:35:54.620 That's the one thing we had. So they had come up with a different title. And in the last second,
00:35:58.940 it was, it was that. So those things happen. And it's, it's kind of a fun part of the journey
00:36:02.400 when the book is all aspects of it. I really love the research and time in the archives. All of it
00:36:07.520 is great. But these fun little twists at the end and looking at the cover art, the SNS cover art
00:36:12.940 team, their art department is amazing. It's very cool. And it's always interesting to hear or see
00:36:17.480 how someone else has an expression of the story. You know, like what did they come up with for a
00:36:22.640 cover of this book you just spent years writing? Right. That year, it's like yours. It's your
00:36:26.640 personal baby, your creativity, your research, all of that went into it. And then somebody else has got
00:36:30.340 strong thoughts on it. And it's fascinating to get the first like read back or feel feedback on how
00:36:36.500 somebody else sees it. Like, what is this book about? What should be called? You do host a
00:36:41.240 podcast, which we're actually now airing on the Megyn Kelly channel on Saturdays called Dedicated
00:36:45.320 with Doug Brunt, which I mentioned. And you had a very interesting interview the other day with
00:36:49.600 Michael Lewis, famed author. Author of Moneyball and Blindside and Liar's Poker. Yeah. All of which
00:36:56.900 have become big movies. And he wind up, he winds up telling you a story about, okay, I'm not going to
00:37:02.920 give it away. Listen to this story. I'm just going to run the soundbite. It's going to end in a big
00:37:07.380 reveal about somebody, you, the Megyn Kelly show listeners and watchers know very well. It's this
00:37:14.700 guy's everywhere. He's Waldo. He's everywhere. Okay. Listen to Michael Lewis talking to Doug Brunt.
00:37:21.900 One of the people we interview, I interviewed for this podcast was Steve Bannon. My connection to
00:37:27.940 Steve Bannon, he bought the movie rights to Liar's Poker. Oh my God. I didn't know he was
00:37:32.920 even in that business. You did know he was in that business. Where do you think his money came
00:37:36.020 from? Seinfeld. He went from, he was Steve Bannon was involved with Steve Bannon went from the Navy
00:37:40.840 to the Navy to Harvard Business School to Goldman Sachs to Hollywood. Bannon told me, I just found this
00:37:46.380 out like a month ago that, um, not only did he buy the movie rights, but he was so pissed off by how
00:37:53.580 bad the script was. They got out of a very fancy script writer that he went off in a little dark
00:37:58.840 room by himself and wrote a Liar's Poker screenplay himself. He was obsessed with it. Did you get to
00:38:04.280 read it? Well, this is the next thing I'm going to go see him. And he says he has a copy somewhere.
00:38:08.560 So I want to read it. I want to see what he did. That would be amazing. I'm glad you played that
00:38:14.920 clip. I got to follow up with Michael Lewis to find out how the Bannon meeting went. This is all sort
00:38:18.520 of happening now. You call him and I'll call Steve and we'll see whether this is happening. I would love to
00:38:22.640 see that Liar's Poker is an amazing book. It's still read today. So Liar's Poker has not yet
00:38:26.820 been made a movie. Has not been made a movie, but it's his first book. It was a breakout book. He
00:38:31.440 tells so many amazing stories of how he first started writing. You know, he was working at
00:38:35.060 Solomon Brothers and Wall Street and he writes, he has sort of a Jerry Maguire moment. He gets this
00:38:39.040 article published about how bankers are paid too much. And it goes in the Wall Street Journal and
00:38:43.780 someone had sort of stuck their neck out to get him this job at Solomon Brothers. So he comes up the
00:38:48.060 elevator feeling like, like I've written this, I'm in the journal. Like, this is so exciting. And the guy who got
00:38:52.520 on the job is at the top of the elevator bay, like ashen, looking like, what have you done? Like,
00:38:57.860 you can't do that. You can't work here and do that. You pick one. So he ends up actually writing
00:39:03.400 financial articles under a pseudonym for a while. But then he comes out with Liar's Poker,
00:39:08.620 which is an amazing book. This reminds me of a story when I was practicing law where we had a client
00:39:13.160 who came to us already having had a default judgment entered against them. Like they had blown off this
00:39:20.040 complaint repeatedly. And the plaintiff got a default judgment against them because they failed
00:39:24.080 to defend. Then they called us and said, will you help us? So I was a low person on the totem pole.
00:39:28.380 So they sent me in there like, oh, go get this default judgment vacated for our client, which is
00:39:32.340 an uphill battle. So I went in there and it was very contentious. And the other side, the plaintiff
00:39:38.360 did not want the default judgment to go away. We really battled. And the judge gave me a super hard
00:39:43.360 time because the client had been completely derelict and defending. And it was just a funny and
00:39:49.720 tumultuous time in my career. So long story short, they vacated the default judgment. And the court
00:39:55.340 wrote this opinion, like in writing that you can still look up now, where he really praised me and
00:40:03.100 the oral argument, but he completely dumped on my client. I was so young. I was like, this is the
00:40:10.080 greatest opinion ever. He loved me. I brought it back to Joan's day and I'm like, look what they
00:40:17.220 said. And of course the seasoned lawyers were like, uh, this is not a great opinion for our client
00:40:24.060 who now is like being ripped by a court on the record repeatedly for its dereliction of duty.
00:40:30.060 I'm like, but I got the right result. And look at all the praise for me.
00:40:34.020 Kind of like that. Yeah. And like Michael Lewis, you went on to a great career. Yes. From there.
00:40:43.300 It all, it all wound up. In a different place. That's right. I'll wound up working out different,
00:40:46.920 different industry altogether, although some of the skills translated. Here's the other piece of
00:40:50.740 news I want to talk to you about. We've been trying to get this on. Um, this has been out for a week
00:40:54.780 now. The Atlantic dropped a piece called Accommodation Nation. And this piece, you may not have read it,
00:41:01.100 but it is all about something that you're very familiar with. How many schools now, this focuses
00:41:06.820 on colleges, but it's true in high schools and other schools too, have quote disabled students
00:41:14.300 who need quote need extra time on the exams. It's gotten out of control. Even the Atlantic is calling
00:41:22.260 it an explosion over the past 15 years. The increase is driven by more young people getting diagnosed with
00:41:26.880 conditions such as ADHD, anxiety, and depression. And by universities making the process of getting
00:41:33.100 accommodations easier, the changes occurred disproportionately at the most prestigious
00:41:37.540 and expensive institutions. Of course. Right. Um, students, they, they write, you hear students
00:41:43.180 with disabilities. It's not kids in wheelchairs. One professor at a selective university told the
00:41:47.640 magazine it's rich kids getting extra time on tests. Even as poor students with disabilities still
00:41:54.800 struggle to get necessary provisions, elite universities have entered an age of accommodation
00:41:59.420 here. Listen to this individual universities. This are, these are stats from the Harvard Crimson
00:42:04.260 Stanford in 2014, 3% of the student body said they had a disability today, 38%. Brown, 2014,
00:42:14.060 10%, now 22%. Cornell, 2014, 5%, now 22%. Harvard, 2014, 3%, now 21%. Yale, 2014, 8%, now 20%. The school
00:42:26.740 with the lowest is MIT. They had 3% in 2014 and they have 8%. UC Berkeley, the number has quintupled over
00:42:35.600 the past 15 years. Amherst, it's at 34%. At one law school, which they don't name, 45% of the students
00:42:42.940 receive academic accommodations. And listen to this. Um, the Americans, it's because of the Americans
00:42:48.820 with Disabilities Act, which is passed in 1990 meant to make life fairer for people who have actual
00:42:52.920 disabilities. Um, and you have to provide a reasonable accommodation, but now it's been expanded,
00:42:57.540 uh, to people who basically have any physical or quote mental impairment that substantially limits
00:43:04.000 a major life activity. And even beyond that now, now in 2018, 2008, Congress amended the ADA to restore,
00:43:10.840 uh, the definition to include a list of major life activities that could be disrupted by disability,
00:43:15.540 including learning, reading, concentrating, thinking, even if it doesn't severely restrict
00:43:21.680 your daily life. Um, and now this depression thing, listen to this. Mental health issues have
00:43:28.480 joined ADHD as the primary driver of the accommodations boom. The number of young people diagnosed with
00:43:33.420 depression and anxiety has exploded. Um, okay. It doesn't need it after the release of the DSM-5,
00:43:41.140 the symptoms need only to interfere with or reduce the quality of academic functioning. That's all
00:43:48.300 reduce the quality of your academic functioning. And for this, you get extra time or unlimited time
00:43:53.880 on your exams or papers, or you can get out of homework, or you can get the professor to quote,
00:44:01.020 not call on you without warning. That's happening at Carnegie Mellon per the Atlantic. Um, Ohio state
00:44:09.380 says 36% there have these issues. You can get extensions on take home assignments, permission to
00:44:14.980 miss class. You can get, um, social anxiety disorder. If you say you have that, you can get a note.
00:44:20.740 So you're not called on in class. And then some get housing accommodations, including single rooms
00:44:25.140 and emotional support animals. One administrator told me, writes the author that a student at a
00:44:30.680 public college in California had permission to bring their mother to class. This became a problem
00:44:35.220 because the mom turned out to be an enthusiastic class participant. Um, this is deeply wrong and we've
00:44:43.120 all seen it. You know, as you're reading that and all the stats and there are all these universities
00:44:46.920 you're talking about, it's, it's occurring to me, the real, I mean, this is something we've talked
00:44:49.920 about a bit before, but with this story, the real problem here is the college admission process.
00:44:54.260 It's so screwed up and the parents, it's the parents fault and, and the university because
00:44:59.680 the parents gear everything around the wrong goal. We're supposed to be preparing these kids for life.
00:45:05.400 So offering these little cheat codes to get a better grade, to get into the college is not
00:45:10.780 preparing you for life. It's preparing you to get into the college that makes the parent feel good.
00:45:14.140 Like junior got into an Ivy or whatever it is. And it's ruined not only academics, it's ruined
00:45:20.020 athletics because that's the same thing too. Athletics used to be about teaching practice
00:45:24.060 equals improvement and teamwork and all of these values that you get from sports. And in addition
00:45:29.340 to just sort of having a rounded youth, having a rounded youth, that that's like the way to get
00:45:33.820 into college in the seventies and eighties. Now you're not rounded. You have to be a specialist in
00:45:37.280 one thing. You have to be the best, best violinist or the best chess player. So you can get into
00:45:41.300 Yale or whatever. Well-rounded is not valued at all. And it's the same with these academics.
00:45:47.220 If someone's like struggling on their SAT or on their math test, if they don't actually have a
00:45:52.800 problem, giving them an extra hour to take it. So they can get a little bit better grades. So they
00:45:55.960 can get to a little bit better college is backward. You should be teaching them how, how are you going
00:46:00.440 to survive in the world? Right. When you get out into the law firm or the investment bank or whatever
00:46:06.760 you wind up doing, they're not going to give you extra time on the test. You've got to perform.
00:46:10.340 Someone's there. The client needs this result by 5 PM period. But no one is, no longer is anyone
00:46:15.480 chasing a goal for their kids of how am I going to prepare this person for life? How are they going
00:46:20.380 to be strong and self-sufficient, provide for themselves? It's all geared around a college
00:46:25.600 application for an Ivy league school. Yes. That is if that degree is your make or break ticket.
00:46:30.340 That's why they play lacrosse 500 hours a month or squashed or whatever it is. It's, it's all about
00:46:37.160 college. It's not about a great experience for my kid or my kid enjoying a rounded life. It's all,
00:46:43.480 we're all so screwed up with all of this college stuff. It's, it's really perverted everything.
00:46:47.620 And this is so unfair because if you have a kid who just studies hard and goes into class and is
00:46:53.740 ready to take the test, what they get disadvantaged by this. They've got a kid with obviously equal
00:47:00.540 abilities. Yeah. But has a little money. So they get a doctor's note that says he has this problem.
00:47:06.040 It's diagnosed. Right. We could all get this note very easily and use it to advance our kids future
00:47:12.480 or get extra time for our kids on their tests. And this is not to disparage those who have genuine
00:47:17.320 disabilities. There are that, that few, that those numbers in 2014 sound real to me about 3%,
00:47:22.040 but all it's now it's gone from three to 34 bullshit. Those 31% are fucking faking it to get
00:47:29.740 an academic advantage. And it's, it's a disadvantage for the kids who just work hard and show up and
00:47:35.720 want to color within the lines. They want, they'll play by the rules. You just have to hope that
00:47:39.680 after college, when junior with the note went to Cornell and someone else without the note went to
00:47:45.800 Syracuse. What? They're going to meet in the workplace one day and who's going to win?
00:47:52.040 Right. Oh, see, Doug caught my, well, Doug caught my illness. Sort of, sort of. I'll explain what
00:47:59.000 happened. But, um, let me remind me to explain that in a second. Um, I really think when I was
00:48:04.880 reading this, I was like, okay, so then when you apply to college, you don't have to put on there
00:48:08.060 that you got the extra time. The colleges don't get to know. Yeah. You're not actually allowed to
00:48:12.200 ask and you don't have to put it on there. So the colleges have no idea who, who took the SAT in nine
00:48:16.280 hours. So do they have to resubmit the note when they get to college for the tests? No, no. Oh yeah. Yeah.
00:48:21.060 Of course. Yes. But who cares? By that point, their only goal is to get hired by Goldman Sachs or
00:48:25.680 what have you. Um, but I think like, what, what if we just play this out and said, there's no time
00:48:32.300 limit. There's no time limit on any tests. Tests are now held like whatever. If you want to take
00:48:38.560 your history tests at your history class, which starts at 1 PM and most students have to finish in
00:48:44.560 40 or 50 minutes, whoever wants to stay for two hours can say for two hours, like God, all of you
00:48:49.720 you'll, you'll then have to make up the work that you missed in the classes after that. Good luck with
00:48:55.060 that. Like that's a disadvantage. That's a you thing. But like, what if we just said to all students,
00:48:59.680 if you want the extra time, you can have it. I actually think this could help solve it because
00:49:03.860 this would be like a nightmare for the teachers. They wouldn't like it. It would eventually kill
00:49:08.260 itself, right? This system. And what would happen to like the kids with the disabilities wouldn't
00:49:13.280 much like all the other kids having all the extra time either. Yeah. But they can take 10 more hours
00:49:17.340 if everyone's, yeah, I don't actually, that would be good. I kind of, I'm tempted by it. But so here's
00:49:21.740 what happened with Doug's illness. As you guys know, I was sick last week. I still have a hangover on the
00:49:25.640 voice, but I'm fine. Um, but Doug got it. Obviously he's my husband, so he got it, but yours was less
00:49:33.900 bad. Yeah. And would you like to tell the people how you fought it? I, I, I claim that when I first
00:49:40.880 started feeling something, you know, it starts in the throat. So as soon as I felt something,
00:49:46.040 I'm like, Oh my God, I had a couple of things that were going to be hard to reschedule. I was
00:49:49.000 like, I really would like not to get sick as I now am. So I started, I cut a lemon in half and I
00:49:56.760 squeezed it into tea and I took a sauna. Like every, I've got one. Thank you, honey. Yeah. I was going to say
00:50:01.340 you need the water. Um, and I, and I did that basically every day for like five days.
00:50:06.120 Took a sauna and squeezed lemon into tea. Yeah. And you were taking the Zycam.
00:50:10.040 The Zycam. Yeah. Which is like, I don't know, zinc is in there and some other stuff.
00:50:13.440 Yeah. And you think it minimized your experience. I think I, so I did get it, but I feel like I got
00:50:18.780 it about 10% the level you had it. You were really hurting for a while. You lost your voice and I
00:50:24.520 never had it anywhere near what you had it, but I did have it. So you did want to discuss it.
00:50:31.340 It is amazing. The different, I don't know if this is a sex thing or what, but I do talk about
00:50:38.300 it more when I'm sick and I'm a little bit of a baby and I want to just like be under the blankets
00:50:41.840 and have someone tell me it's going to be all right. And, uh, meanwhile, Meg, like you've lost
00:50:47.140 your voice. You're taking steroids so you can keep your voice. And I'm like, you know, I feel a little
00:50:51.420 tickle and you're like, would you shut the fuck up? I said, we don't have to talk about typhoid Mary over
00:50:59.120 here, but we definitely should not spend too much time talking about that tickle.
00:51:06.560 That was very funny, but I am sorry that I got you sick. Now that you actually have it.
00:51:11.060 It's all worth it, honey. Watching our Christmas in Connecticut.
00:51:14.340 Yeah. We actually fired that up this week for the first time in a year. It's so fun. I, I don't know.
00:51:19.880 I love everything about it. I love the way I feel when those Christmas specials are on the TV. I love,
00:51:24.080 it's not even like, it's not like a great movie, you know, it's no, it's such kind of weird in a
00:51:29.620 few places. It like gets the atmosphere going. Yeah. Like she's kind of supposed to be married
00:51:33.800 to this guy and cheating on him, but whatever she's not though. She's not actually married to
00:51:37.440 the guy. Um, I just love the feeling. I love the, first of all, I love the feeling of old movies,
00:51:42.700 right? It's like a very cool vibe. And second of all, I love the cinematography with a sleigh ride
00:51:47.360 in that movie. I love like all the snow outside. Reminds me of my childhood up in Syracuse,
00:51:52.100 New York. I miss snow. I miss tons of snow. Like I miss where snow is the default as opposed to
00:51:58.600 green and Brown in the winter. Well, Brown and Brown. Um, and I just love this season so much,
00:52:05.060 you know, like these little twinkling lights in the studio. I'd love to keep these past December,
00:52:08.180 but even I, who am a diehard Christmas fan, can't do it. Cause when Christmas is over,
00:52:13.360 you got to move on. Come mid January, you're just ready for warm weather. Yeah. It's enough.
00:52:17.280 You got to clean it up and move on. It only comes once a year, which is why you must treasure it
00:52:20.840 for the next X number of days because it comes and it goes. So what are you getting me for Christmas
00:52:25.920 this year? Not telling. We don't really do Christmas presents for each other is the truth.
00:52:30.560 Lately it's like write a letter. Yeah. I love that. That's an important thing. And then, um,
00:52:35.620 I'll find a little something. One, one year, a couple of years ago is either my birthday or
00:52:40.860 Mother's Day. I don't remember, but you gave me a beautiful letter, which I always love. That's
00:52:44.460 really what I want every year. And a, a little dumb pillow.
00:52:52.600 It wasn't even that nice. It was from CVS.
00:52:55.540 No, it was a CVS pillow, like a shamrock. I was like, what is this?
00:52:58.580 Sometimes they acquire some nice merchandise.
00:53:00.400 It doesn't go anywhere. Like it was cute. It was a little shamrock. It was like a statement pillow.
00:53:05.380 Like the house has been decorated by somebody who knows what he's doing. He, he will not approve.
00:53:11.100 Yeah. It was the thought that counts. I really loved it. Yeah. I, uh, by the way, so I, I know you
00:53:17.460 had Elliot Ackerman on earlier this week and you were discussing my lack of faction, which I cannot
00:53:21.380 deny your observations there on my, on my fashion, but I was bleeding edge on the quarter zip,
00:53:27.980 which apparently is the thing now. Totally. You were, you were black diamond sexy before it was
00:53:32.060 popular. Totally. We will find the episode with a fifth column to explain to the audience what that
00:53:36.160 means. Although the diehard fans at the Megyn Kelly show already know about your black diamond sexy
00:53:40.860 and how you're the saboteur. And I was wrong. I was, I was wrong about it all. You, you were always
00:53:47.100 sexy. It's just a question of how sexy and what it was encapsulated in. You got there, got there in
00:53:54.980 the end, babe. Here's to that. Cheers. Love you, honey. Love you, honey. Merry Christmas. Happy new year.
00:53:59.800 Don't forget to go and get Doug's new book. It's called the lost empire of Emmanuel Nobel. You guys are
00:54:07.060 really going to love it. I promise. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No BS,
00:54:13.560 no agenda and no fear.