The Megyn Kelly Show - Megyn Kelly is Joined By Doug Brunt To Talk About His New Book, and the Importance of Laughter in Marriage

00:00:00.440 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.120 I'm joined now by a very special guest, a New York Times bestselling author, host of the excellent podcast dedicated with Doug Brunt,

00:00:18.420 and the author of the upcoming book, The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel, Romanov's Revolutionaries and the Forgotten Titan.

00:00:30.000 Who Fueled the World. Doug happens to be my husband as well, so that worked out well. Hi, honey.

00:00:35.480 Hi. It's great to be here.

00:00:36.680 Congrats. So here is the galley copy of the new book, which is just so cool looking. It's beautiful.

00:00:43.880 The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel. And it looks kind of similar, similar style to your last big New York Times bestseller,

00:00:51.820 The Mysterious Case of Rudolf Diesel. Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel will not be available until May,

00:00:57.800 but they can pre-order it today, have it in time for Father's Day.

00:01:02.380 Yeah.

00:01:02.880 And tell us what The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel is about.

00:01:05.960 Well, getting the galleys is such a nice moment. We open the box, you know, as a family around the dining room table,

00:01:11.120 and you pull them out and you see it and you hold it in your hands after years of working on it.

00:01:14.280 It is a companion book to the Diesel book. Emmanuel Nobel has an appearance in the Rudolf Diesel story.

00:01:19.880 But you don't have to have read Diesel in order to read this book.

00:01:22.660 It can be out of sequence. And in fact, I haven't said this really. The only people who know

00:01:26.320 this next piece are you and my editor and a few people in archives around the world. But I'm

00:01:30.920 working on a third, which will be, will complete a trilogy of these three turn-of-the-century

00:01:35.500 characters. Emmanuel Nobel essentially established the Russian oil industry along the Caspian Sea in

00:01:42.300 Southern Russia. So by 1900, he and his family had built an oil business larger than standard oil.

00:01:48.220 And in World War I, he controlled more oil than anyone else on the planet. So it was this huge

00:01:52.340 prize sitting in Southern Russia that Germany, the Brits, the Bolsheviks, you know, the communists,

00:01:58.600 Japan, everybody wanted to get to the Nobel oil because they had essentially developed a whole

00:02:03.460 oil infrastructure that was superior to anything else in the world.

00:02:07.600 Superior to Rockefeller. That's crazy.

00:02:09.140 Even to Rockefeller. And yet, for reasons explained in the book, Nobel has been obliterated from history.

00:02:15.700 Totally.

00:02:15.960 This brings him back to life and tells the story.

00:02:17.800 The only Nobel anybody knows is Alfred Nobel, who started the Nobel Prizes. This is Emmanuel

00:02:23.220 Nobel, his nephew, built a totally different, bigger fortune that has been totally forgotten,

00:02:30.540 wiped out. His name is not really known at all in connection with the awards. That's all the

00:02:34.400 Uncle Alfred who did dynamite. That was his business. And it's, it's, do you reveal why? But I mean,

00:02:41.320 a little, I mean, it has to, of course, the, the, when the communists took over Stalin and Lenin,

00:02:45.500 they nationalized all these businesses, but everyone, even in that time, even when the

00:02:49.780 Bolsheviks had taken over, everyone thought the communists are going to last about three days.

00:02:52.940 And so there's an interesting negotiation between Standard Oil and Rockefeller and Nobel about all

00:02:58.260 these Russian assets of petroleum, what to do with them. Cause nobody believes Lenin's going to

00:03:02.800 last. And with regard to the prize though, so Alfred Nobel and the Prizes, he was, he was an

00:03:09.120 investor in the oil business of his brothers and nephew, but the prize wouldn't exist if it wasn't

00:03:14.080 for Emmanuel either. And there are two funny stories about that. When Emmanuel's father, Ludwig,

00:03:18.640 dies, Alfred and Ludwig are huge celebrities around the world. And the newspapers in France where

00:03:23.660 Alfred lives mistakes who's died. They thought Alfred died. So they print this obituary for Alfred

00:03:29.740 Nobel calling him, you know, as the inventor of dynamite, this merchant of death and caused more, 0.92

00:03:34.280 you know, killing than anyone in history. And so he reads his own obituary and thinks,

00:03:38.120 holy crap, you know, I need to, this can't be how I'm remembered. And so he changes his will

00:03:43.320 to establish the prize and gives, you know, tons of his money away. And of course all his,

00:03:47.640 you know, after he dies, all the other Nobel people are like, you must be joking. Like the fortune's

00:03:51.520 going to this crazy prize, including the King of Sweden who pulls out Emmanuel aside and Emmanuel's in

00:03:57.960 charge of the estate basically for his uncle, Alfred and the prize. And every one of the

00:04:01.160 family's fighting it. The King of Sweden is like, you don't want to pay attention to these crazy 0.74

00:04:04.420 pacifists. This is nonsense. You know, you should take care of your family and put all the money 0.99

00:04:08.500 toward that. So Emmanuel stands up to the King of Sweden and says, no, no, no, we're going to,

00:04:12.140 you know, I'm taking my role as the executor of his will. Seriously, we're going to have the prize.

00:04:16.760 And so he, at the last second, rescues the prize.

00:04:19.760 Had it not been for Emmanuel Houston. But the funny thing is, is it's like, you think about,

00:04:23.560 you know, Russia and you know, they've got one huge asset. Well, two, one is oil and two is their 0.58

00:04:29.780 ability to mess with you online, right? Like those are two big assets that they have. Those are their

00:04:34.600 two primary weapons. There's also the matter of nuclear weapons, but in any event, this is their

00:04:38.840 main source of income is their petroleum industry. And it wasn't theirs and they didn't invent it.

00:04:44.300 And actually nobody was doing it at all in Russia until Emmanuel Nobel came along and it was like,

00:04:49.080 hey, look at all this stuff. This actually looks quite interesting.

00:04:53.400 When they first bought land in the Caucasus near, in present day Azerbaijan along the Caspian Sea,

00:04:58.820 people were skimming oil out of puddles. There was no drilling, you know, any wells that were dug

00:05:03.880 were dug by hand with spades. So they come down there with great, they are chemists and engineers

00:05:08.720 by trade. And so they come down there and they completely turn it around. But this was in the 1870s,

00:05:12.940 the time of the czars. So the book has these amazing detours through history that include

00:05:17.260 the Rothschilds and Rockefellers and Dostoevsky and Fabergé.

00:05:21.340 And tons on Stalin. I learned so much about Joseph Stalin that I did not know.

00:05:25.260 And you personalize his backstory in a way that I didn't know. Like, how did he grow up to be this

00:05:29.260 murderous, crazy dude? And now I know. I mean, you actually have a lot of backstory on Stalin. 0.99

00:05:33.940 You see the rise of these two men, very, very different in character, but in strength,

00:05:38.780 they were equals for a long, long time, Emmanuel Nobel and Joseph Stalin. So you learn a ton about

00:05:44.800 world history, about Russia. Everything that Russia is today is explained in this book.

00:05:50.220 Like, but you don't feel like you're learning. You feel like you're just getting a, like a caper.

00:05:54.520 Well, yeah, it's written ideally in a very novelistic way. It's a ripping read. I mean,

00:05:58.140 you go through it, but it has these fun detours, but it is a piece of history. And Stalin, as you say,

00:06:03.220 grew up as a neighbor to Nobel in Southern Russia. He grew up in Georgia, which is between the Black Sea and

00:06:07.980 the Caspian Sea. And he actually worked in the oil fields of the Nobels and the Rothschilds, 0.77

00:06:11.780 another big figure in Russian oil. And so Emmanuel Nobel and Joseph Stalin, they're sort of like

00:06:17.860 these counterpoints to each other. And Stalin is looking at these oil capitalists, industrialists

00:06:23.820 with envy and hatred. And, you know, ultimately, you know, the whole book brings this collision,

00:06:29.120 you know, is coming.

00:06:30.120 Yeah. He was looking at Nobel's oil the same way Zoran Mamdani is looking at the billionaires in New

00:06:36.040 York. All right. Now, so don't forget, it's called The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel by Douglas Brunt.

00:06:41.380 You can get your pre-order right now. That would help Doug out and yours truly,

00:06:45.280 because I'd love to see the book be a success.

00:06:46.780 And avoid the Mayhem of pub day. Like, Diesel sold out. People couldn't get it for like two

00:06:49.560 months because, you know, Simon & Schuster had to go back and print more copies. If you pre-order

00:06:53.520 it now, it shows up on your doorstep or your bookstore has it.

00:06:56.240 It's all easy.

00:06:56.920 You don't have to wait. And that's happening right now with Charlie's book where they've

00:06:59.600 already sold out.

00:07:00.280 Yeah. You're going to have to wait months for his book.

00:07:01.720 They always underestimate anybody who's conservative or married to a conservative.

00:07:06.520 Conservative adjacent.

00:07:07.320 Yeah, they do because they just assume there's no audience for that because that's not the world in

00:07:10.480 which these book publishers live. So it's called The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel. Get your copy

00:07:15.260 now. Now, more importantly, what do we have here with us?

00:07:18.520 Yes, my God.

00:07:19.020 And explain what happens on Dedicated.

00:07:20.760 All right. First, we've got, we have our Jack Carr tumblers with the, I don't know if it can show up

00:07:24.860 here with the ice, but it's got the Tomahawk Navy SEAL thing. So shout out to Jack Carr.

00:07:28.920 Merry Christmas.

00:07:30.300 Thank you for the glasses. We're going to have a little traditional eggnog with bourbon.

00:07:34.320 It's organic. It's healthy.

00:07:35.960 Locale organic.

00:07:36.760 It's like having an egg.

00:07:37.820 We learned that lesson a few years ago.

00:07:39.820 Yes, exactly.

00:07:41.180 We'll do it with rye. Michter's rye.

00:07:43.640 Yeah. What do you, what officially goes in a, in an eggnog?

00:07:47.320 Some people do bourbon, some do rum, some do both.

00:07:50.460 And what are we doing?

00:07:51.700 Well, rye, which is basically bourbon.

00:07:53.360 Okay. The reason that we're doing this is a, it's eggnog and why not? It's that time of year.

00:07:57.640 But B on Doug's podcast, which is called dedicated with Doug Brunt, uh, where he interviews authors.

00:08:03.840 He both interviews authors and talks about their books. And he always pours a cocktail of choice.

00:08:08.260 Could be, could be virgin, could be alcoholic. This one happens to be alcoholic.

00:08:12.940 It's almost, almost always alcoholic. Thank God. And everyone drinks the drink.

00:08:16.720 Michael Lewis was on the other day and he's like, do people actually drink the drink?

00:08:19.700 He had a Sazerac by the way, which is like the New Orleans cocktail.

00:08:23.020 Sazerac.

00:08:23.380 Yeah. It's basically similar to an old fashioned.

00:08:26.340 Now he's doing the nutmeg.

00:08:27.720 Nutmeg over the.

00:08:29.060 Didn't we do this last year?

00:08:30.220 Didn't we do the eggnog last year?

00:08:31.740 We did. I think I had to read your ad by the end or maybe that was a different show.

00:08:35.680 Cheers honey. Merry Christmas.

00:08:36.560 Cheers honey. Love you.

00:08:42.000 Oh yeah. That's tasty.

00:08:43.240 Our first eggnog of the season.

00:08:44.940 That's delicious. I know. Well done. Yeah. No. And we talked about how that one year

00:08:48.360 we were drinking eggnogs like they were going out of style when we were young. We didn't have kids

00:08:52.000 and we both blew up like ticks. We were huge.

00:08:55.800 Looking in the mirror, like something's changed in our diet.

00:08:58.460 Is it possible? It's the eggnog.

00:09:00.660 The full fat eggnog.

00:09:01.680 And then we looked at the nutritional information on the box.

00:09:05.560 Which by the way, the low fat isn't, isn't a whole lot better.

00:09:08.000 What is it? What does it say?

00:09:08.760 Well, 150 calories, you know, a lot of cholesterol in there.

00:09:13.520 Yeah.

00:09:14.080 A lot of sodium in there.

00:09:15.120 Oh, really? Sodium.

00:09:16.680 Decent amount of sugar.

00:09:17.300 Nothing is worse than, than the Martha Stewart recipe. I mentioned this to you this morning over coffee.

00:09:22.000 I just saw it on X. Steve, I'll send it to you. We had to drop it in for the listening audience.

00:09:26.600 This thing was loaded with alcohol. First of all, it was like so many eggs and so much sugar and so

00:09:31.740 much heavy cream. And then on top of that, it was like three cups of bourbon, three cups of rum,

00:09:37.060 and three cups of another alcohol.

00:09:39.300 Martha gets after it.

00:09:40.280 You're phoning it in with this ride business.

00:09:42.340 I know, exactly. She's putting me to shame.

00:09:43.040 I don't know what you were thinking, you know? Usually men are trying to get women intoxicated. 0.92

00:09:47.200 You're on set. You can't like, well, we can definitely add more booze, but getting involved

00:09:50.720 in eggs and cream and stuff, we're not going to do that here.

00:09:53.080 No, you don't want egg cream of any kind. And she, she stuffed the yolks in there too. It was

00:09:56.400 pretty nasty. So we're getting ready for our holidays. What have you been doing to get

00:10:01.680 ready?

00:10:02.860 I said a few present suggestions, which is more than I normally do.

00:10:06.680 I'm only laughing because every woman knows that's a joke. 1.00

00:10:10.140 I, uh, and every guy gets defensive.

00:10:14.620 No, we kind of have our shared responsibilities, I would say, but generally the Christmas shopping

00:10:18.740 is on my list because of, because I want it to be.

00:10:21.360 Yeah. Well, you're so good at it. It's amazing. It's like a, you know, Santa Claus threw up

00:10:25.860 under the tree. There's like a million presents everywhere.

00:10:27.620 He helps me. And that's why I have, I have an ace in the hole. I have a secret weapon.

00:10:32.200 You have a little elf up in the North.

00:10:33.400 Yeah. So I don't really need Doug Brun's help because I've got Santa.

00:10:36.680 Although I do help a little.

00:10:38.020 You do help. But we were talking a little bit about our Christmas traditions. I was

00:10:41.780 doing this for Steven Crowder and, um, there's so many that we do. Like we go to Montana every

00:10:46.000 year and there's a bunch of stuff we do over there. But what would you say? Like I've asked

00:10:49.620 what, what's our top or what's our, a couple of top Christmas traditions that we have?

00:10:53.380 I mean, well, we, we're still, you know, earmuffs on the kids. We're still firing away with

00:10:57.760 the elf every morning and the, and the, uh, Advent.

00:11:02.060 They know.

00:11:02.280 Wow. And we try to carol as much as possible, but that's not every year. We do have a great,

00:11:08.480 like almost 20 years tradition of getting lunch with a particular group of friends in

00:11:12.880 the city. It used to be at the 21 club. Hello. That's got to open back up. It does.

00:11:16.660 It's the 21 club. Yep. Um, but we, we have found new venues for that.

00:11:20.960 Wait a minute. What was the second thing you said?

00:11:23.780 The Advent calendar?

00:11:24.800 The caroling.

00:11:25.260 Oh, the caroling.

00:11:25.940 Do we really?

00:11:26.720 That's not really traditional. I say that's not an annual.

00:11:28.160 Did we reveal what happened last year when we caroled?

00:11:32.260 Yes. It's embarrassing, but it's a funny story.

00:11:34.340 It's a disaster.

00:11:35.340 Yeah.

00:11:35.760 No one wanted us.

00:11:37.040 Well, our first stop was actually pretty good. They were amazed. They're like, this is so great.

00:11:40.340 And we kind of knew them and they thought this is great. And the other dad was like,

00:11:44.400 I'm coming with you. And he turns around, it's like, let's go. And they're like,

00:11:47.340 screw you dad. He's like, next year, maybe I can join you. 0.99

00:11:50.480 Yeah.

00:11:51.140 But he was totally supportive.

00:11:52.320 It was just the five of us.

00:11:53.680 Yeah. Just the five of our family. And so then we go to the next house from that point forward,

00:11:57.100 it went down. Like, nobody really wants it. They're like, it's cold outside. Why do I have

00:12:00.300 to stand by this open door?

00:12:01.820 There was one moment where we were waiting across the street. We had our Santa hats on. We were

00:12:06.320 freezing. And this SUV drove by with the window down and just kind of waved at us. And we were

00:12:11.740 like, chicka bell, chicka bell, chicka bell. Shaking the bell at them. 0.99

00:12:15.680 It was like an assault of Christmas carols.

00:12:19.100 It's hard to get an audience.

00:12:20.080 Everyone was kind of like trying to squeeze the door closed, kind of like, I've got some people

00:12:23.280 inside. Yeah.

00:12:24.100 Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't, it wasn't the greatest doubting. It's probably not going to be a

00:12:27.060 tradition, but I think I'm thinking of things like when we watch, it's a wonderful life.

00:12:31.960 Oh yeah. Yeah. So actually you drive, in addition to getting the presents, you do drive a lot

00:12:36.180 of these things. We do, it's a wonderful life.

00:12:37.380 But everyone's a gamer.

00:12:38.200 With the salt and the bread and the whole bit and, you know, ringing the bell when Clarence

00:12:42.640 makes an appearance on screen.

00:12:44.840 And hissing when Potter.

00:12:46.320 You and I, like the greatest tradition, bar none of, you know, Christmas aside, you and I start

00:12:50.640 every morning with a cup of coffee. We've got the coffee machine in the bedroom. It's set

00:12:54.920 the night before with the alarm. It goes off and we start each day with 20 minutes together,

00:12:58.920 talking, having coffee. Sometimes listening to AM update, but other times watching Christmas

00:13:03.260 in Connecticut for a few minutes to start the day. It's just an awesome way to enter the

00:13:06.860 day and enter the world, you know, having connected a little bit.

00:13:09.860 It's so true. And right now we have a little tree in our bedroom. We've got some Christmas

00:13:14.560 lights and that, that makes it magical too. You know, like turn that on. The only thing Doug

00:13:19.120 and I argue about in the bedroom is the temperature.

00:13:22.440 Yes.

00:13:22.980 Right?

00:13:23.240 Yeah.

00:13:23.860 So now we both like it cool when we sleep. That makes sense. Everybody should have it.

00:13:27.700 They say 68 degrees. It's good for your health. It's good for your sleep. But Doug would like

00:13:33.620 the thermometer to be turned down much earlier in the evening so that it's like cold when

00:13:39.020 we arrive.

00:13:39.900 Yes. That makes me irritable. We climb in bed. I'm like, it's so effing hot in here.

00:13:43.720 And I'm like, it's freezing because you can't function in there when it's, it's 68 degrees.

00:13:48.080 Like when you're doing your nighttime routine, you're washing your face, you're in your night

00:13:51.620 gown, you're freezing your ass off if it's 68 degrees.

00:13:54.980 You've got a heated floor though. You should just sort of like get low.

00:13:57.500 That is a luxury by the way. When we bought the house, it had a heated floor. I've never

00:14:00.340 had that. And it's, it's wonderful.

00:14:01.580 It makes a nice difference. 0.99

00:14:02.780 Damn. Damn. As they say. So we're going to go to Montana. It's not snowy there, unfortunately. 1.00

00:14:08.980 No. Early, early conditions, but you know.

00:14:11.540 Is that a blessing?

00:14:11.840 They're making some. Yes. For me, like I'm, I'm happy to do a couple of groom blues and

00:14:16.340 then go sit by the fire, play poker with the kids and like never get out of pajamas. Like

00:14:21.100 a couple of days like that would be great.

00:14:22.540 It doesn't that sound like heaven on earth for two weeks. It's going out there. We've got

00:14:26.700 our annual costume night. I recommend this to everybody. You can go big. I mean, obviously

00:14:31.520 I go big because I love costumes, but you can, you can do this on a shoestring budget too.

00:14:36.040 You just go to the local costume store and you get a couple of costumes for your family.

00:14:39.800 It does not have to be fancy, but it needs to be a theme. It needs to be theme related.

00:14:43.860 And then the way we do it in our family is on costume night. I like controlling it. So

00:14:49.040 I'll put out the costumes on people's beds. You'll keep the kids busy. They all know it's

00:14:54.060 costume night.

00:14:54.240 It's super fun because nobody knows what the theme is. Meg plans this every single year.

00:14:58.000 And then the theme's amazing. One year was back to the future. One year we had watched

00:15:01.660 the 10 commandments. So I, you know, I was Moses and someone was the various Kings.

00:15:06.440 You were the best most. Oh, look, here's back to the future.

00:15:08.500 Oh, nice. Blurred the kids, kids faces. You were the best McFly. You were George McFly,

00:15:13.240 the dad. Oh yeah.

00:15:14.360 It was Marty. And you, oh, you've got to do your imitation. Can you do your George McFly

00:15:18.360 imitation?

00:15:23.260 All right. Take your damn hands off her. 1.00

00:15:29.780 I don't know if I nailed that. 1.00

00:15:30.980 You did. I love it. And then we did Moses. We did 10 commandments and you made an amazing

00:15:35.840 Moses. Years early. This was good. I mean, this, we went all out for the Moses. We got

00:15:41.660 Pharaoh represented. We got Zephia. 0.77

00:15:45.100 If there's no one in the family who does this amount of planning as you do, which is amazing

00:15:49.020 because everyone fully appreciates, but even like a wig night is kind of fun. If you're

00:15:53.360 recommending to the audience, we have a closet full of wigs.

00:15:57.340 It's true.

00:15:57.760 And it's fun just to like, I don't know.

00:15:59.280 Somehow things are more fun in wigs.

00:16:01.460 Yeah.

00:16:01.660 Right. It's like, you could just be eating your dinner. We don't actually do anything. Like

00:16:04.820 somebody's asking, what do you do on costume? We're like, nothing. We just put them on.

00:16:09.400 Laugh at each other.

00:16:10.380 There's the Wonka. That was a great one. Here's the funny story about these two people

00:16:13.840 in there as Violet Beauregard and Augustus Gloop. They've since become dear friends of ours,

00:16:19.780 but that night we didn't know them at all. So we were expecting two family members who then

00:16:25.220 couldn't come. It was like right after COVID, that was either 2020 or 2021. It was right when things

00:16:30.360 were still nutty because of COVID and their flights got canceled. And these two go to our

00:16:35.760 school and we had just met them and we're like, so would you like to come for dinner? They're

00:16:40.440 like, sure. We'd love to. And we're like, could you wear some weird costumes?

00:16:45.060 That's not exactly how it goes. There's no could you wear. It's like, here's, she,

00:16:48.820 Meg like lays down the law. When you cross that threshold, you're in her world. And she says,

00:16:54.180 off you go. And here's your costume and don't come back out until it's on.

00:16:57.320 It's kind of the price of admission. Anyway, and we realized too late that Augustus Gloop

00:17:01.740 winds up looking a little like Hitler Youth. He's in like a little military outfit with the

00:17:07.260 blonde wig. Yeah, it's very like Australian. 1.00

00:17:09.740 Our friends, Lisa and Chris, were such good sports. They donned the outfits and it was such

00:17:14.900 a fun thing. I think he sort of entered with a little trepidation, but mid-dinner was loving it.

00:17:19.100 Once we got the liquor flowing. Well, that helps with all costumes and wigs. 1.00

00:17:22.540 But no, so the other piece of costume night is just to order a background from Amazon. So if you

00:17:28.540 go on Amazon and you type in 10 commandments or you type in back to the future backdrop,

00:17:34.600 you will pull up so many options for 40 bucks or under like 40 bucks for the big one for eight by 10.

00:17:41.220 But if you want to go smaller, it's much cheaper. Anyway, my point is simply for under 150 bucks,

00:17:47.260 you could probably get everybody in your family in a costume and with a backdrop. And that's really the

00:17:52.120 end of it. So we'll try to sometimes do like the food that's themed appropriately. If like that

00:17:56.660 night, one year we did Karate Kid, Cobra Kai. Yeah, that was great. We had Asian that night. 1.00

00:18:01.760 That's about as much as what, you know, it's not that like, then you just sit there and you laugh.

00:18:06.620 Specials. Yeah. Oh, we did have John Kreese do one of those.

00:18:09.920 And speaking of like cheap, that was like 30 bucks or something.

00:18:12.520 Yeah. One of those services where you can pay an actor to like say something personalized.

00:18:15.800 Yeah, he's like strike first, you know, getting on with our kids who, by the way,

00:18:19.060 that was the best 30 bucks we ever spent because the kids were totally into it.

00:18:21.780 And he called us the blunts, I think, instead of the brunts.

00:18:24.000 Yeah, he did them wrong for sure.

00:18:24.700 It was close. Whatever. You don't expect perfection from John Kreese.

00:18:27.660 Yeah.

00:18:28.360 Anyway, I can't wait for all of that stuff to start. It's like, that's what makes the two weeks

00:18:32.240 magical. Like the Christmas is the apex of it. But if you put these other things around,

00:18:36.360 then it's not as much of a letdown when Christmas is over.

00:18:39.120 Yeah.

00:18:39.620 You know, he's still something like for you.

00:18:40.320 And it's also that contains, you know, one of the few times of the year where there aren't

00:18:43.380 obligations all over the kids, especially in us. And we get, you know, tons of time together.

00:18:48.100 High quality, low quality, but it all adds up. It's a great time together.

00:18:51.720 Yeah. The poker has become a fun tradition.

00:18:53.680 Yeah.

00:18:54.320 You know, the kids are getting more into Texas Hold'em.

00:18:56.320 We used to be able to beat them more easily.

00:18:57.840 I know.

00:18:58.140 We'd have the big stack in front of us. Now it's insane.

00:18:59.920 Or at least cheat them without them knowing. One or the other. But yeah, no, that's been

00:19:04.080 fun. We got to learn some new games. The kids are now into Texas Hold'em, which I actually,

00:19:08.120 I don't totally know how to play Texas Hold'em. You just hold three cards and you play off of.

00:19:11.640 You hold two and there's, yeah. But it's really, it's like a betting thing. Once you learn how to bet,

00:19:15.800 you're good. It's basically, everything's a poker hand, so.

00:19:18.480 We should try that.

00:19:19.340 Yeah.

00:19:19.600 Let's do that. This time next year, we'll be sitting here talking about how well I did at

00:19:23.240 Texas Hold'em.

00:19:24.140 Done.

00:19:24.540 Okay. So let's talk about the news a little bit, because it's always fun to get your take

00:19:27.840 on it. And I thought, I saw this article yesterday and I was like, this is a good one

00:19:30.160 for Duggar. Here's a headline from the New York Post. Marco Rubio instructs diplomats

00:19:35.560 to use Times New Roman font, eliminating Biden-era DEI initiative. Did you know there's DEI font?

00:19:44.060 I did not. By the way, I don't think the takeaway of this story should be that Calibri is woke.

00:19:49.220 Exactly. But I totally get where Rubio's going on this.

00:19:52.420 Calibri does look a little light in the loafers. I'm sorry.

00:19:55.120 It's a little different, for sure. 0.76

00:19:56.280 Times New Roman is like, bald, bald. We're showing it on the screen for the listening,

00:20:00.640 Oh, nice. That's perfect.

00:20:02.280 Calibri is like skinny with softer edges. And it just, it looks a little more feminine, I'd say.

00:20:10.720 Well, look, here's my overall take on this, because I understand what Rubio's doing. I'm sure when

00:20:15.600 people heard about this, you could imagine the attacks, like you're running state and this is

00:20:19.720 what you're going to spend your time on. But it does matter. And you know, firsthand, when I am

00:20:23.560 working on these books, Simon & Schuster and I spend time on the font. Like it's got to match the

00:20:28.720 mission. And you know, it's your, it's your first chance to set the tone, set the atmosphere for the

00:20:35.720 audience that you're engaging.

00:20:37.260 The mood.

00:20:37.740 It's the, it's the last little bit of, you know, connection point that you have. And it,

00:20:41.900 and it does matter. It's why writers, authors, and publishers, and editors actually focus on

00:20:46.260 this. The font of different books looks very different depending on what kind of book it is.

00:20:49.700 Like if you open George R.R. Martin's Game of Thrones and you see Times New Roman, you're going to be

00:20:53.780 like, what is this? Like the best versions of those books look like it was written by an elf,

00:20:58.200 you know, like Bilbo Baggins, like something a little medieval and fanciful. And, you know,

00:21:02.480 especially like the first letter of the chapter should look that way. And so it's Rubio's way of

00:21:08.680 creating a mindset or creating an atmosphere for the information he's putting out there. And you see

00:21:14.640 that dynamic everywhere. It's the same as Bill Bratton's broken windows policing. You know,

00:21:19.920 you walk into a neighborhood that's full of broken windows and graffiti on the walls and trash on the

00:21:23.040 streets, and that creates a mindset and atmosphere for crime. And Bratton and others before

00:21:28.140 him have proven that if you fix the windows, paint the walls, clean up all the trash and have this

00:21:32.020 beautiful neighborhood, you prevent crime before it starts. And it's that same dynamic. It seems like

00:21:36.560 a small thing, but setting that tone, setting the atmosphere matters.

00:21:41.340 Like strong, robust language or whatever font.

00:21:44.860 So I get what he's doing. If he was going to, the only change I would make is he shouldn't go back

00:21:48.540 to Times New Roman. He should do like the Bilbo Baggins handwriting for all of our state

00:21:52.240 communication. But actually that reminds me of a story you were telling me the other day.

00:21:56.700 It's the same thing of like the small tonal things we should value and prioritize them

00:22:01.900 more. Almost we have to invert our thinking that these things are more important. It's like that

00:22:06.900 Jordan Peterson piece that you were showing me.

00:22:08.660 Yeah, that's right. Oh yeah, that was so good. It was a Jordan Peterson soundbite on Instagram

00:22:13.120 where he was saying, yeah, it's great to go to St. Bart's or Aruba and have a margarita,

00:22:18.820 you know, down on the beach. Everybody would love that. But your life, he said in this clip,

00:22:23.960 is how your wife greets you at the end of the day. It's how you are around the dinner table with

00:22:29.080 each other, how you're treating each other, you know, whether you're quote present, you know,

00:22:33.980 but truly it is like, do you feel valued when you walk into the room with your spouse or your kids

00:22:38.360 or your family? Like that, that does make up your life with so many more of our waking hours are

00:22:41.960 spent around that table or that coffee mug than they are down in, you know, Aruba with a mocktail.

00:22:47.960 And they're small and they're often overlooked and it's not, we don't think it was a big deal.

00:22:52.420 And yet we really do need to invert how we think about that because that's the biggest deal. As

00:22:56.600 Peterson points out, that's 80% of your life, those little moments that add up. And so it's,

00:23:01.620 you know, long way of saying, I think that's the same thing Rubio is getting at of like,

00:23:05.820 this is the font they're going to be staring at for 10 hours a day. Like this is an opportunity

00:23:10.920 to set an atmosphere, to set a tone. This is what I want.

00:23:13.740 What is a telegraph?

00:23:14.460 Yeah. So it's not, it's not trivial. It actually is something.

00:23:16.800 Well, this led to a discussion that we had about like, what, who do you want the kids to marry?

00:23:22.460 You know? And I was saying, my God, they, they all have to marry somebody with a good sense of humor.

00:23:26.120 Like number one.

00:23:27.420 Totally.

00:23:28.000 Right. And we were talking about this because it's like.

00:23:30.000 You're so lucky in that regard. Cause I, you know.

00:23:31.900 You're very funny. I am lucky. Yeah. I treasure you.

00:23:35.560 I will concede though. You are actually the funnier of the two.

00:23:38.800 What? That's never been conceded before by anyone.

00:23:41.020 I felt under pressure on air and everything.

00:23:42.580 But no, all fair. I'm going to take it back, but we laugh a lot.

00:23:47.520 Totally. We laugh at each other and our kids are so good. All three of them have developed a

00:23:51.140 different, but awesome sense of humor.

00:23:53.220 Yes. Because it is important. Number one, it's important to laugh at life,

00:23:56.320 but it's almost equally important to be able to laugh at yourself and others. All of those

00:24:01.180 things must be laughed at. It's not cruel. Like it's, it's a stress relief mechanism. I really think

00:24:06.580 it's the, the antidote to cortisol, right? Like just laughing and life provides so many

00:24:11.860 opportunities. It could be just a nothing, but like, we're constantly making fun of ourselves,

00:24:16.400 you know? And I, and I have noticed, I mean, you and I have had these little sidebar

00:24:20.320 conversations when one of our kids isn't hanging in that department. Like he gets made fun of,

00:24:25.200 and you can see like, he's a little pissed off that he got a little made fun of. And we're like,

00:24:30.180 that's not, I mean, we don't pounce on him at that point, but we're like, it's, you know,

00:24:33.700 that's, that's a sign that we need to keep doing that until he gets a little better.

00:24:37.480 Otherwise he's going to, you know, it's not going to work out come college dorm days.

00:24:42.200 That's right. Life is tough. And you really do have to be able to laugh at, at all of it,

00:24:46.120 or you're not going to make it very far. I really feel like, you know, my Nana,

00:24:49.960 I've talked about her on the show too. She, she died at 101. She only ate processed foods. 0.54

00:24:54.820 She never exercised a day in her life. Um, so what did she do? She laughed a lot. She was very

00:25:02.720 funny. She had a circle of friends that laughed. She was very quick to make fun of herself first

00:25:08.040 and foremost, but everyone else as well. Like, I do think it's a, it could make the difference

00:25:12.680 between life and death. Totally. Totally. We need to study Nana and we need to study Dick Van Dyke.

00:25:16.900 Whatever those two are doing, I'm going to do all of it. Well, I was a little concerned about Dick

00:25:21.640 Van Dyke's comments about how he made it to a hundred. He said he was like drinking way too much

00:25:25.760 until his fifties. That wasn't the part that concerned me. It was, he said, I was sort of on board

00:25:29.500 with that. He said he's, he's never, it was either, he's never hated anyone or he's never

00:25:34.920 been like rageful. I was like, uh-oh. I don't think he's right about that. You know, people

00:25:41.960 can't self-analyze. They have no idea. We need to analyze him, you know, from the outside. It was

00:25:46.320 all the dancing. It was the dancing. He's skinny. You know, he's a skinny guy. That probably helps a

00:25:50.740 lot. It was totally the old bamboo in Chitty Chitty Bam Bam. Totally. Once you learn that,

00:25:55.640 you keep doing that dance, you live forever. Yeah. How are we going to do that? The old

00:26:00.340 bamboo? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Yes. We have to watch that with the kids. I think they're

00:26:03.300 totally up for it. They haven't, the kids, we used to watch this movie on a loop about

00:26:07.520 10 years ago. You guys know Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. 12 years ago. Yeah. And it's such an

00:26:12.880 amazing movie. It does have that AI haircut. So I saw your tweet on that actually, that this

00:26:17.620 was already invented in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. But the kids, I think, have like foggy memories

00:26:21.780 of it. So I'm excited to see how they see it now. I love all parts of it.

00:26:25.620 I love Truly Scrumptious. I love, love, love Dick Van Dyke. He's just so utterly charming.

00:26:32.320 I love the apparatus he sets up in their house to cook the breakfast, to lift the blankets

00:26:38.680 off the beds. Yeah. It's all great. The villains are great in Bavaria.

00:26:43.060 The whistle thing. Yeah. That's such a great scene. It's like, who even knew? But we had

00:26:48.780 a very funny thing happen with our love of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang over our fake-sgiving holiday

00:26:53.160 where we have the family come for fake Thanksgiving, not the actual day, but it makes it easier on

00:26:58.300 everybody who needs to travel. And we split the family into two groups to play charades.

00:27:03.100 And our side was coming up with the clues for the other side. And then they came up with their clues

00:27:10.360 for us. Now, unbeknownst to our opponents, who are also family members, our family is obsessed with

00:27:17.500 Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. We know a lot about Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. We've seen that movie

00:27:20.600 truly hundreds of times. A hundred times. Yeah, exactly. So there was a joke when we used to watch

00:27:25.880 it. Our oldest, Yates, who was just a little guy at the time, like two or three, he saw this one

00:27:30.560 scene involving this boat and there were these like rounded things on the boat. Like funnels from

00:27:36.420 the top of the boat. Okay. Yeah. And for whatever, and then two bad guys hide themselves later in those

00:27:42.260 funnels and go on land and start spying on people. And for whatever reason, Yates always referred

00:27:46.200 to them as the barrels, the bear. I want to see the barrels. And he would do this with his hands

00:27:50.700 for listening audience. I'm like twinkling my fingers together. It needs to be like the barrels.

00:27:55.760 Well, I got up there and I pulled my clue from the other side and the movie was Chitty Chitty Bang

00:28:02.680 Bang. And you were on my team. So I needed to act this out to you. And of course they're wondering,

00:28:08.440 I'm sure the other side is like, okay, maybe she'll do Bang Bang. How's she going to get this?

00:28:11.740 And all I said was movie. And then I did the finger motion and you were like, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

00:28:18.860 At which way, there's no convincing them that we haven't been cheating. There's nothing you can

00:28:22.880 say. They're like, no, no, no. You obviously cheated. None whatsoever. And we did crush them.

00:28:27.540 I mean, it was embarrassing. It was brutal. Had to take pity on them.

00:28:30.820 It was brutal. It was so fun. I love charades. What a fun game. Our kids have recently introduced us to a

00:28:36.560 new game. Oh my God. That is so fun. What is that thing called? Impostor. Impostor. Yeah. Yeah. So

00:28:42.360 someone in the group, you can do it on your iPhone, which is actually a great use of the phone for

00:28:46.340 this. So explain it, how it works. Let's see. Oh my God. If there's five of us sitting there,

00:28:51.100 the five of us are sitting there and someone's the imposter and there's a word. And one, everybody

00:28:56.660 has to hold the phone at one point. Like it starts off, I'll explain it.

00:29:00.960 So if I were patient zero of this five person game, but you can play it with, you know, three

00:29:07.840 people too. I think three is probably the fewest you could do it with. Um, five. Yeah. I would say

00:29:12.360 five is five or more would be most fun. Yeah. So you, um, open, you see the phone. I don't know

00:29:18.880 the app. I'll ask the kids, but I'm sure if you Google imposter app, you can get it. And it will say

00:29:23.640 like, you agree as a family on which category you're going to pick. Like there's sports, there's, um,

00:29:29.160 uh, like movies. And, um, we, we pick movies for one. I wasn't, was I the first on that one? No,

00:29:41.260 I wasn't. Okay. So Yardley went first on this one and I think I might take over. No, no, I've got

00:29:47.020 this. I'm going to see me. She got Peppa Pig. That was the clue. So Yardley wasn't the imposter. I

00:29:53.060 was. And so you, when Yardley looked at the phone, it said Yardley and she saw Peppa Pig. Then we

00:29:57.960 handed it to Thatcher and he saw Peppa Pig. Then they handed it to me and I saw imposter.

00:30:02.840 Yes. You have no idea that it's Peppa Pig. You don't know. So when the phone gets handed to you,

00:30:06.440 it says, it just says your name because of the person who starts at just types when the five

00:30:09.640 names are playing. So when it sees, I see Megan, I hit it. And then it either says imposter or it

00:30:14.860 gives me the clue. And then we pass the phone around and then you start guessing. And the way it works

00:30:18.920 is like Yardley went first. And so she said, Oh, I knew we were in like TV and movies. And she said

00:30:24.380 pink. And then the next person said Australia. And so when it got to me, I was the imposter

00:30:31.540 and I thought flamingo. That's what I thought we were going for. So when you're the imposter,

00:30:36.100 you have to try to act like, you know, what it is. You have to, you have to like act like,

00:30:40.160 you know, and the other people have to, when they, when they do know, have to reveal a clue

00:30:45.060 that shows they know, but not so much that they're going to clue in the imposter. So I said feather

00:30:50.520 and you go, mom's the imposter. And everyone started laughing at me. Everyone started laughing

00:30:55.900 because it is. If you're early at the imposter, you don't have enough, you know, if you go late,

00:30:59.880 you might get enough clues that you can sort of dial in on, on what it is. Otherwise you're just

00:31:05.080 sort of throwing darts and hoping to say something that makes any amount of sense to the rest of the

00:31:09.960 group. We are here today with Douglas Brunt promoting his new novel, The Lost Empire of Emmanuel

00:31:14.640 Nobel, even though it doesn't sound like it. You can get it on pre-order right now. It's well worth

00:31:20.840 your time, but that game imposter is worth your time as well. However, be more ambiguous than I was

00:31:27.220 with that whole thing. Now I want to keep going. I want to keep going a little. We're going to keep

00:31:31.940 going past the break a little bit. Sorry, EJ. I'm going to eat into the next hour just a bit.

00:31:36.900 Um, in the news today, well, yesterday, but also today is the fact that they have named a new

00:31:44.400 CBS evening news anchor. Did you know that they were looking for one?

00:31:51.940 The only reason I know anything about this story is you tweeted how irrelevant it is. And I saw your

00:31:59.260 tweet and I'm like, Oh, what's so irrelevant. And it was to Coppel. Yeah. Yeah. Tony to Coppel to

00:32:04.720 Coppel. Do you know anything about Tony to Coppel? I don't. I remember he got in trouble for like

00:32:07.980 doing an interview that pushed back a bit in a way. I don't even remember all the details about

00:32:12.480 it, but I remember he pushed back in a way that seemed like actual journalism and he got some

00:32:15.880 blowback for it. It was a great moment on the morning show. That's the only way I know him,

00:32:19.060 which is a positive, uh, thing to know, I guess, but it is crazy irrelevant. I mean, you and I are the

00:32:25.180 same age. We grew up in, you know, 150 miles apart at the same time, like loving all the same

00:32:31.480 movies, having the same high school experiences and watching one of three evening news anchors.

00:32:37.980 And that's almost how households identified in those times. Like, are you a Jennings house?

00:32:41.720 Are you a Rathers house? Yeah. You know, we were Jennings. You were Jennings. We were Jennings too.

00:32:45.880 And, um, no longer like that's no longer how people, it used to be like, I'm an American,

00:32:50.720 I'm a Christian or a Presbyterian. I'm a whatever that. And I, we watched Jennings. Like it was in the

00:32:55.820 top 10 of things that identify your household and no longer, nobody even cares. Nobody, you know,

00:33:02.060 our age or younger gets news that way. It's so irrelevant, right? It's like, I mean, I would,

00:33:07.060 I know I'm biased, but I think podcasts are far more relevant now. People like they have their

00:33:10.840 loyalty, their allegiance to like this show. If you're going to spend an hour or two a day with

00:33:15.320 somebody, it's not going to be the evening news. My God, why would you, by the way, it used to be

00:33:19.420 like the newspaper the next day was kind of stale from yesterday's news. You know, the immediacy cut

00:33:23.800 because of cable and now be, you know, with the, by the time it's made it through the producers

00:33:28.800 and packaged and written and ready for primetime cable evening news, it's so old.

00:33:35.580 It's so old. Yeah. Um, so I don't think, you know, like that, that all the mainstream media

00:33:40.560 is writing articles like Ken Tony DeCoppo restore CBS to its former glory. I'm like, when, what,

00:33:46.500 what glory? And they're like, can they, can he get them at a third place? The answer is no,

00:33:50.820 he cannot, he can't do that either. Nothing's changing in TV news other than diminishing ratings.

00:33:55.400 Maybe he can do something relatively with the other three, but the three as a unit, like

00:34:00.060 evening news is going only one way, which is down.

00:34:02.940 Yeah. No, one big Tyrannosaurus Rex, only not as scary.

00:34:06.780 We are back now with Doug Brunt. It was a very tough booking for me, but I made it this morning

00:34:11.440 over coffee. He is here promoting his soon to be released, The Lost Empire of Emmanuel Nobel,

00:34:17.640 Romanovs, revolutionaries, and the forgotten Titan who fueled the world. I like that. Not ruled the

00:34:24.580 world. Fueled. Fueled the world. Play on with the font that Rubio would approve of. Well done. Exactly.

00:34:30.480 It's, it's musculature. It's got musculature. Yeah. It gives you a sense of history, turn of the

00:34:35.000 century. Yeah. Except we've changed the cover since then, since this. Yes. Not the font, but we did,

00:34:40.540 we got rid of the Romanovs. Wait, hold on. Okay. There we go. Uh, that lower right picture of the 1.00

00:34:45.220 Romanovs. Tsar Nicholas II and his family who were brutally killed. Um, we moved that to the back

00:34:49.780 because it seemed like the cover was a little too busy with that on there. So. It's fun hearing

00:34:52.800 the stories, right? About like how a book that you enjoy or wind up loving changed over time.

00:34:58.380 Yeah. Like from the title to the cover art. Like here. So here is the mysterious case of

00:35:02.660 Rudolph Diesel. This is Doug's bestseller. This book has sold a ton. Um, hugely successful. And it's

00:35:08.960 a mystery about Rudolph Diesel, who was the Elon Musk of his time, who went missing and Doug solved the

00:35:14.340 case. He solved the mystery of what happened to him. And it was not always called the mysterious

00:35:18.780 case of Rudolph Diesel. No, I mean, for months and months, my editor and I were going back and

00:35:22.840 forth. Like we're going to solve this over a bottle of wine. We came up with engines and empires. It's

00:35:26.780 the diesel engine. And I loved it. He loved it. 11th hour. They have a sales meeting with the internal

00:35:31.800 SNS team. Barnes and Noble has a sales team that contributes to this stuff too. The CEO, John Karp of

00:35:36.120 Simon and Schuster. And so I get this call. We've already printed galleys, like what we have for Nobel

00:35:40.780 and it has the engines and empires title. He's like, everyone loves the book. It's charming.

00:35:45.300 It's atmospheric. It takes us to this early Downton Abbey era and a crazy mystery. And it's

00:35:49.540 super fun and great history, except the title. We got to change the title. I'm like, what?

00:35:54.620 That's the one thing we had. So they had come up with a different title. And in the last second,

00:35:58.940 it was, it was that. So those things happen. And it's, it's kind of a fun part of the journey

00:36:02.400 when the book is all aspects of it. I really love the research and time in the archives. All of it

00:36:07.520 is great. But these fun little twists at the end and looking at the cover art, the SNS cover art

00:36:12.940 team, their art department is amazing. It's very cool. And it's always interesting to hear or see

00:36:17.480 how someone else has an expression of the story. You know, like what did they come up with for a

00:36:22.640 cover of this book you just spent years writing? Right. That year, it's like yours. It's your

00:36:26.640 personal baby, your creativity, your research, all of that went into it. And then somebody else has got

00:36:30.340 strong thoughts on it. And it's fascinating to get the first like read back or feel feedback on how

00:36:36.500 somebody else sees it. Like, what is this book about? What should be called? You do host a

00:36:41.240 podcast, which we're actually now airing on the Megyn Kelly channel on Saturdays called Dedicated

00:36:45.320 with Doug Brunt, which I mentioned. And you had a very interesting interview the other day with

00:36:49.600 Michael Lewis, famed author. Author of Moneyball and Blindside and Liar's Poker. Yeah. All of which

00:36:56.900 have become big movies. And he wind up, he winds up telling you a story about, okay, I'm not going to

00:37:02.920 give it away. Listen to this story. I'm just going to run the soundbite. It's going to end in a big

00:37:07.380 reveal about somebody, you, the Megyn Kelly show listeners and watchers know very well. It's this

00:37:14.700 guy's everywhere. He's Waldo. He's everywhere. Okay. Listen to Michael Lewis talking to Doug Brunt.

00:37:21.900 One of the people we interview, I interviewed for this podcast was Steve Bannon. My connection to

00:37:27.940 Steve Bannon, he bought the movie rights to Liar's Poker. Oh my God. I didn't know he was

00:37:32.920 even in that business. You did know he was in that business. Where do you think his money came

00:37:36.020 from? Seinfeld. He went from, he was Steve Bannon was involved with Steve Bannon went from the Navy

00:37:40.840 to the Navy to Harvard Business School to Goldman Sachs to Hollywood. Bannon told me, I just found this

00:37:46.380 out like a month ago that, um, not only did he buy the movie rights, but he was so pissed off by how

00:37:53.580 bad the script was. They got out of a very fancy script writer that he went off in a little dark

00:37:58.840 room by himself and wrote a Liar's Poker screenplay himself. He was obsessed with it. Did you get to

00:38:04.280 read it? Well, this is the next thing I'm going to go see him. And he says he has a copy somewhere.

00:38:08.560 So I want to read it. I want to see what he did. That would be amazing. I'm glad you played that

00:38:14.920 clip. I got to follow up with Michael Lewis to find out how the Bannon meeting went. This is all sort

00:38:18.520 of happening now. You call him and I'll call Steve and we'll see whether this is happening. I would love to

00:38:22.640 see that Liar's Poker is an amazing book. It's still read today. So Liar's Poker has not yet

00:38:26.820 been made a movie. Has not been made a movie, but it's his first book. It was a breakout book. He

00:38:31.440 tells so many amazing stories of how he first started writing. You know, he was working at

00:38:35.060 Solomon Brothers and Wall Street and he writes, he has sort of a Jerry Maguire moment. He gets this

00:38:39.040 article published about how bankers are paid too much. And it goes in the Wall Street Journal and

00:38:43.780 someone had sort of stuck their neck out to get him this job at Solomon Brothers. So he comes up the

00:38:48.060 elevator feeling like, like I've written this, I'm in the journal. Like, this is so exciting. And the guy who got

00:38:52.520 on the job is at the top of the elevator bay, like ashen, looking like, what have you done? Like,

00:38:57.860 you can't do that. You can't work here and do that. You pick one. So he ends up actually writing

00:39:03.400 financial articles under a pseudonym for a while. But then he comes out with Liar's Poker,

00:39:08.620 which is an amazing book. This reminds me of a story when I was practicing law where we had a client

00:39:13.160 who came to us already having had a default judgment entered against them. Like they had blown off this

00:39:20.040 complaint repeatedly. And the plaintiff got a default judgment against them because they failed

00:39:24.080 to defend. Then they called us and said, will you help us? So I was a low person on the totem pole.

00:39:28.380 So they sent me in there like, oh, go get this default judgment vacated for our client, which is

00:39:32.340 an uphill battle. So I went in there and it was very contentious. And the other side, the plaintiff

00:39:38.360 did not want the default judgment to go away. We really battled. And the judge gave me a super hard

00:39:43.360 time because the client had been completely derelict and defending. And it was just a funny and

00:39:49.720 tumultuous time in my career. So long story short, they vacated the default judgment. And the court

00:39:55.340 wrote this opinion, like in writing that you can still look up now, where he really praised me and

00:40:03.100 the oral argument, but he completely dumped on my client. I was so young. I was like, this is the

00:40:10.080 greatest opinion ever. He loved me. I brought it back to Joan's day and I'm like, look what they

00:40:17.220 said. And of course the seasoned lawyers were like, uh, this is not a great opinion for our client

00:40:24.060 who now is like being ripped by a court on the record repeatedly for its dereliction of duty.

00:40:30.060 I'm like, but I got the right result. And look at all the praise for me.

00:40:34.020 Kind of like that. Yeah. And like Michael Lewis, you went on to a great career. Yes. From there.

00:40:43.300 It all, it all wound up. In a different place. That's right. I'll wound up working out different,

00:40:46.920 different industry altogether, although some of the skills translated. Here's the other piece of

00:40:50.740 news I want to talk to you about. We've been trying to get this on. Um, this has been out for a week

00:40:54.780 now. The Atlantic dropped a piece called Accommodation Nation. And this piece, you may not have read it,

00:41:01.100 but it is all about something that you're very familiar with. How many schools now, this focuses

00:41:06.820 on colleges, but it's true in high schools and other schools too, have quote disabled students

00:41:14.300 who need quote need extra time on the exams. It's gotten out of control. Even the Atlantic is calling

00:41:22.260 it an explosion over the past 15 years. The increase is driven by more young people getting diagnosed with

00:41:26.880 conditions such as ADHD, anxiety, and depression. And by universities making the process of getting

00:41:33.100 accommodations easier, the changes occurred disproportionately at the most prestigious

00:41:37.540 and expensive institutions. Of course. Right. Um, students, they, they write, you hear students

00:41:43.180 with disabilities. It's not kids in wheelchairs. One professor at a selective university told the

00:41:47.640 magazine it's rich kids getting extra time on tests. Even as poor students with disabilities still

00:41:54.800 struggle to get necessary provisions, elite universities have entered an age of accommodation

00:41:59.420 here. Listen to this individual universities. This are, these are stats from the Harvard Crimson

00:42:04.260 Stanford in 2014, 3% of the student body said they had a disability today, 38%. Brown, 2014,

00:42:14.060 10%, now 22%. Cornell, 2014, 5%, now 22%. Harvard, 2014, 3%, now 21%. Yale, 2014, 8%, now 20%. The school

00:42:26.740 with the lowest is MIT. They had 3% in 2014 and they have 8%. UC Berkeley, the number has quintupled over

00:42:35.600 the past 15 years. Amherst, it's at 34%. At one law school, which they don't name, 45% of the students

00:42:42.940 receive academic accommodations. And listen to this. Um, the Americans, it's because of the Americans

00:42:48.820 with Disabilities Act, which is passed in 1990 meant to make life fairer for people who have actual

00:42:52.920 disabilities. Um, and you have to provide a reasonable accommodation, but now it's been expanded,

00:42:57.540 uh, to people who basically have any physical or quote mental impairment that substantially limits

00:43:04.000 a major life activity. And even beyond that now, now in 2018, 2008, Congress amended the ADA to restore,

00:43:10.840 uh, the definition to include a list of major life activities that could be disrupted by disability,

00:43:15.540 including learning, reading, concentrating, thinking, even if it doesn't severely restrict

00:43:21.680 your daily life. Um, and now this depression thing, listen to this. Mental health issues have

00:43:28.480 joined ADHD as the primary driver of the accommodations boom. The number of young people diagnosed with

00:43:33.420 depression and anxiety has exploded. Um, okay. It doesn't need it after the release of the DSM-5,

00:43:41.140 the symptoms need only to interfere with or reduce the quality of academic functioning. That's all

00:43:48.300 reduce the quality of your academic functioning. And for this, you get extra time or unlimited time

00:43:53.880 on your exams or papers, or you can get out of homework, or you can get the professor to quote,

00:44:01.020 not call on you without warning. That's happening at Carnegie Mellon per the Atlantic. Um, Ohio state

00:44:09.380 says 36% there have these issues. You can get extensions on take home assignments, permission to

00:44:14.980 miss class. You can get, um, social anxiety disorder. If you say you have that, you can get a note.

00:44:20.740 So you're not called on in class. And then some get housing accommodations, including single rooms

00:44:25.140 and emotional support animals. One administrator told me, writes the author that a student at a

00:44:30.680 public college in California had permission to bring their mother to class. This became a problem 1.00

00:44:35.220 because the mom turned out to be an enthusiastic class participant. Um, this is deeply wrong and we've

00:44:43.120 all seen it. You know, as you're reading that and all the stats and there are all these universities

00:44:46.920 you're talking about, it's, it's occurring to me, the real, I mean, this is something we've talked

00:44:49.920 about a bit before, but with this story, the real problem here is the college admission process.

00:44:54.260 It's so screwed up and the parents, it's the parents fault and, and the university because

00:44:59.680 the parents gear everything around the wrong goal. We're supposed to be preparing these kids for life. 0.75

00:45:05.400 So offering these little cheat codes to get a better grade, to get into the college is not

00:45:10.780 preparing you for life. It's preparing you to get into the college that makes the parent feel good.

00:45:14.140 Like junior got into an Ivy or whatever it is. And it's ruined not only academics, it's ruined

00:45:20.020 athletics because that's the same thing too. Athletics used to be about teaching practice

00:45:24.060 equals improvement and teamwork and all of these values that you get from sports. And in addition

00:45:29.340 to just sort of having a rounded youth, having a rounded youth, that that's like the way to get

00:45:33.820 into college in the seventies and eighties. Now you're not rounded. You have to be a specialist in

00:45:37.280 one thing. You have to be the best, best violinist or the best chess player. So you can get into

00:45:41.300 Yale or whatever. Well-rounded is not valued at all. And it's the same with these academics.

00:45:47.220 If someone's like struggling on their SAT or on their math test, if they don't actually have a

00:45:52.800 problem, giving them an extra hour to take it. So they can get a little bit better grades. So they

00:45:55.960 can get to a little bit better college is backward. You should be teaching them how, how are you going 1.00

00:46:00.440 to survive in the world? Right. When you get out into the law firm or the investment bank or whatever

00:46:06.760 you wind up doing, they're not going to give you extra time on the test. You've got to perform.

00:46:10.340 Someone's there. The client needs this result by 5 PM period. But no one is, no longer is anyone

00:46:15.480 chasing a goal for their kids of how am I going to prepare this person for life? How are they going

00:46:20.380 to be strong and self-sufficient, provide for themselves? It's all geared around a college

00:46:25.600 application for an Ivy league school. Yes. That is if that degree is your make or break ticket.

00:46:30.340 That's why they play lacrosse 500 hours a month or squashed or whatever it is. It's, it's all about

00:46:37.160 college. It's not about a great experience for my kid or my kid enjoying a rounded life. It's all,

00:46:43.480 we're all so screwed up with all of this college stuff. It's, it's really perverted everything. 0.64

00:46:47.620 And this is so unfair because if you have a kid who just studies hard and goes into class and is

00:46:53.740 ready to take the test, what they get disadvantaged by this. They've got a kid with obviously equal

00:47:00.540 abilities. Yeah. But has a little money. So they get a doctor's note that says he has this problem.

00:47:06.040 It's diagnosed. Right. We could all get this note very easily and use it to advance our kids future

00:47:12.480 or get extra time for our kids on their tests. And this is not to disparage those who have genuine

00:47:17.320 disabilities. There are that, that few, that those numbers in 2014 sound real to me about 3%,

00:47:22.040 but all it's now it's gone from three to 34 bullshit. Those 31% are fucking faking it to get 0.99

00:47:29.740 an academic advantage. And it's, it's a disadvantage for the kids who just work hard and show up and 0.99

00:47:35.720 want to color within the lines. They want, they'll play by the rules. You just have to hope that

00:47:39.680 after college, when junior with the note went to Cornell and someone else without the note went to

00:47:45.800 Syracuse. What? They're going to meet in the workplace one day and who's going to win?

00:47:52.040 Right. Oh, see, Doug caught my, well, Doug caught my illness. Sort of, sort of. I'll explain what

00:47:59.000 happened. But, um, let me remind me to explain that in a second. Um, I really think when I was

00:48:04.880 reading this, I was like, okay, so then when you apply to college, you don't have to put on there

00:48:08.060 that you got the extra time. The colleges don't get to know. Yeah. You're not actually allowed to

00:48:12.200 ask and you don't have to put it on there. So the colleges have no idea who, who took the SAT in nine

00:48:16.280 hours. So do they have to resubmit the note when they get to college for the tests? No, no. Oh yeah. Yeah.

00:48:21.060 Of course. Yes. But who cares? By that point, their only goal is to get hired by Goldman Sachs or

00:48:25.680 what have you. Um, but I think like, what, what if we just play this out and said, there's no time

00:48:32.300 limit. There's no time limit on any tests. Tests are now held like whatever. If you want to take

00:48:38.560 your history tests at your history class, which starts at 1 PM and most students have to finish in

00:48:44.560 40 or 50 minutes, whoever wants to stay for two hours can say for two hours, like God, all of you

00:48:49.720 you'll, you'll then have to make up the work that you missed in the classes after that. Good luck with

00:48:55.060 that. Like that's a disadvantage. That's a you thing. But like, what if we just said to all students,

00:48:59.680 if you want the extra time, you can have it. I actually think this could help solve it because

00:49:03.860 this would be like a nightmare for the teachers. They wouldn't like it. It would eventually kill

00:49:08.260 itself, right? This system. And what would happen to like the kids with the disabilities wouldn't 1.00

00:49:13.280 much like all the other kids having all the extra time either. Yeah. But they can take 10 more hours

00:49:17.340 if everyone's, yeah, I don't actually, that would be good. I kind of, I'm tempted by it. But so here's

00:49:21.740 what happened with Doug's illness. As you guys know, I was sick last week. I still have a hangover on the

00:49:25.640 voice, but I'm fine. Um, but Doug got it. Obviously he's my husband, so he got it, but yours was less

00:49:33.900 bad. Yeah. And would you like to tell the people how you fought it? I, I, I claim that when I first

00:49:40.880 started feeling something, you know, it starts in the throat. So as soon as I felt something,

00:49:46.040 I'm like, Oh my God, I had a couple of things that were going to be hard to reschedule. I was

00:49:49.000 like, I really would like not to get sick as I now am. So I started, I cut a lemon in half and I

00:49:56.760 squeezed it into tea and I took a sauna. Like every, I've got one. Thank you, honey. Yeah. I was going to say

00:50:01.340 you need the water. Um, and I, and I did that basically every day for like five days.

00:50:06.120 Took a sauna and squeezed lemon into tea. Yeah. And you were taking the Zycam.

00:50:10.040 The Zycam. Yeah. Which is like, I don't know, zinc is in there and some other stuff.

00:50:13.440 Yeah. And you think it minimized your experience. I think I, so I did get it, but I feel like I got

00:50:18.780 it about 10% the level you had it. You were really hurting for a while. You lost your voice and I

00:50:24.520 never had it anywhere near what you had it, but I did have it. So you did want to discuss it.

00:50:31.340 It is amazing. The different, I don't know if this is a sex thing or what, but I do talk about

00:50:38.300 it more when I'm sick and I'm a little bit of a baby and I want to just like be under the blankets

00:50:41.840 and have someone tell me it's going to be all right. And, uh, meanwhile, Meg, like you've lost

00:50:47.140 your voice. You're taking steroids so you can keep your voice. And I'm like, you know, I feel a little

00:50:51.420 tickle and you're like, would you shut the fuck up? I said, we don't have to talk about typhoid Mary over 0.99

00:50:59.120 here, but we definitely should not spend too much time talking about that tickle.

00:51:06.560 That was very funny, but I am sorry that I got you sick. Now that you actually have it.

00:51:11.060 It's all worth it, honey. Watching our Christmas in Connecticut.

00:51:14.340 Yeah. We actually fired that up this week for the first time in a year. It's so fun. I, I don't know.

00:51:19.880 I love everything about it. I love the way I feel when those Christmas specials are on the TV. I love,

00:51:24.080 it's not even like, it's not like a great movie, you know, it's no, it's such kind of weird in a

00:51:29.620 few places. It like gets the atmosphere going. Yeah. Like she's kind of supposed to be married 0.74

00:51:33.800 to this guy and cheating on him, but whatever she's not though. She's not actually married to

00:51:37.440 the guy. Um, I just love the feeling. I love the, first of all, I love the feeling of old movies,

00:51:42.700 right? It's like a very cool vibe. And second of all, I love the cinematography with a sleigh ride

00:51:47.360 in that movie. I love like all the snow outside. Reminds me of my childhood up in Syracuse,

00:51:52.100 New York. I miss snow. I miss tons of snow. Like I miss where snow is the default as opposed to

00:51:58.600 green and Brown in the winter. Well, Brown and Brown. Um, and I just love this season so much,

00:52:05.060 you know, like these little twinkling lights in the studio. I'd love to keep these past December,

00:52:08.180 but even I, who am a diehard Christmas fan, can't do it. Cause when Christmas is over,

00:52:13.360 you got to move on. Come mid January, you're just ready for warm weather. Yeah. It's enough.

00:52:17.280 You got to clean it up and move on. It only comes once a year, which is why you must treasure it

00:52:20.840 for the next X number of days because it comes and it goes. So what are you getting me for Christmas

00:52:25.920 this year? Not telling. We don't really do Christmas presents for each other is the truth.

00:52:30.560 Lately it's like write a letter. Yeah. I love that. That's an important thing. And then, um,

00:52:35.620 I'll find a little something. One, one year, a couple of years ago is either my birthday or

00:52:40.860 Mother's Day. I don't remember, but you gave me a beautiful letter, which I always love. That's

00:52:44.460 really what I want every year. And a, a little dumb pillow. 0.99

00:52:52.600 It wasn't even that nice. It was from CVS. 0.99

00:52:55.540 No, it was a CVS pillow, like a shamrock. I was like, what is this?

00:52:58.580 Sometimes they acquire some nice merchandise.

00:53:00.400 It doesn't go anywhere. Like it was cute. It was a little shamrock. It was like a statement pillow.

00:53:05.380 Like the house has been decorated by somebody who knows what he's doing. He, he will not approve.

00:53:11.100 Yeah. It was the thought that counts. I really loved it. Yeah. I, uh, by the way, so I, I know you

00:53:17.460 had Elliot Ackerman on earlier this week and you were discussing my lack of faction, which I cannot

00:53:21.380 deny your observations there on my, on my fashion, but I was bleeding edge on the quarter zip,

00:53:27.980 which apparently is the thing now. Totally. You were, you were black diamond sexy before it was

00:53:32.060 popular. Totally. We will find the episode with a fifth column to explain to the audience what that

00:53:36.160 means. Although the diehard fans at the Megyn Kelly show already know about your black diamond sexy

00:53:40.860 and how you're the saboteur. And I was wrong. I was, I was wrong about it all. You, you were always

00:53:47.100 sexy. It's just a question of how sexy and what it was encapsulated in. You got there, got there in

00:53:54.980 the end, babe. Here's to that. Cheers. Love you, honey. Love you, honey. Merry Christmas. Happy new year.

00:53:59.800 Don't forget to go and get Doug's new book. It's called the lost empire of Emmanuel Nobel. You guys are

00:54:07.060 really going to love it. I promise. Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No BS,

00:54:13.560 no agenda and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - December 27, 2025

Megyn Kelly is Joined By Doug Brunt To Talk About His New Book, and the Importance of Laughter in Marriage

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