The Megyn Kelly Show - Megyn Moments： Bill Maher, VP Vance, Charlamagne, All-In Podcast, Shawn Ryan, Karoline Leavitt

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00:00:30.780 You keep saying sort of I'm nuts because I don't see the difference

00:00:33.640 between the elephant and the mouse and I'm telling you

00:00:35.060 I identify them differently than you do.

00:00:37.260 Hillary Clinton, of course, is the original election denier.

00:00:40.160 I'm sure you voted for her in 16. 1.00

00:00:41.820 Well, she's not an election denier. 0.99

00:00:43.500 She absolutely was the OG election denier. 0.95

00:00:46.680 She, first of all... 0.99

00:00:48.120 How do you see those women in like your arc with them, JD?

00:00:52.600 Well, I think it is the through line of my life, Megan,

00:00:54.880 that there have been strong women who have made it possible

00:00:56.860 for me to have a good life.

00:00:59.020 I think the positive, uplifting name for yourself

00:01:02.540 is totally in line with Now I Know How You Parent Your Own Daughters. 0.99

00:01:06.520 Absolutely. And, you know, I got four daughters

00:01:08.800 and when they ask me, when they tell me they want to do things,

00:01:11.840 I don't shoot it down.

00:01:13.180 Because I had older people in my life who did that to me.

00:01:16.460 I'll keep my opinion to myself.

00:01:18.380 Why?

00:01:18.560 Why?

00:01:20.620 The middleman is a lie.

00:01:24.840 There are no middlemen.

00:01:27.520 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show,

00:01:29.300 live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:01:39.280 Hey, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:40.960 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show

00:01:42.160 and today's Megyn Moments special.

00:01:44.300 We're bringing you some memorable moments from the past few months,

00:01:48.060 showing these guests, all of whom you will know,

00:01:51.180 like you haven't seen them anywhere else.

00:01:54.020 Some really special moments in here.

00:01:56.040 Bill Maher and yours truly sparring over election denialism.

00:01:59.780 J.D. Vance opening up about his wife

00:02:01.840 and being raised by strong women.

00:02:04.800 Charlemagne the God on the way he parents his daughters.

00:02:07.600 Sean Ryan on God in his life and in mine.

00:02:11.040 Plus Caroline Levitt on her marriage and balancing work.

00:02:14.000 Which is very busy for her with new motherhood.

00:02:17.320 And the guys from the All In podcast and yours truly

00:02:20.040 get deep into what works and what doesn't

00:02:23.140 in this new media world.

00:02:25.160 I think you'll find it very insightful and interesting.

00:02:28.260 Enjoy and we'll see you Monday with the EJs. 0.80

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00:03:31.860 He thought last time

00:03:34.200 that he could count on

00:03:35.600 someone being just a Republican

00:03:37.960 to do his bidding.

00:03:40.480 And what he found out

00:03:41.400 was that there are a lot of decent people

00:03:43.020 who are Republicans,

00:03:44.000 which is something I'm trying to tell the Democrats all the time.

00:03:47.240 You can't hate,

00:03:48.240 you can hate Trump,

00:03:49.100 you can't hate everybody who likes him,

00:03:50.700 and you certainly can't hate half the country.

00:03:52.560 And Republicans is not a byword for bad people.

00:03:57.200 And a lot of them stood up.

00:03:58.800 I mean, even ones who I don't like very much,

00:04:02.700 Mitt Romney, McConnell,

00:04:05.900 obviously Liz Cheney, Chris Christie.

00:04:09.540 There were Mike Pence.

00:04:12.220 These are what I call as good as it gets Republicans

00:04:15.180 for the people who don't like Republicans.

00:04:17.700 They full-throatedly said,

00:04:19.880 Trump lost that election.

00:04:21.620 No two ways about it.

00:04:23.840 McConnell said it wasn't even

00:04:25.340 a particularly close election.

00:04:26.860 A lot of people said it.

00:04:27.560 A lot of people said it.

00:04:28.300 But look, I agree with you

00:04:29.460 that the majority of the Republican Party

00:04:30.840 doesn't believe that.

00:04:32.600 But I do think there's a difference

00:04:34.220 between it was stolen,

00:04:36.780 you know, the nonsense

00:04:37.720 with Dominion voting machines and all that

00:04:39.900 versus it wasn't fair.

00:04:42.720 What wasn't fair?

00:04:44.620 Oh my, don't get me started.

00:04:46.080 What wasn't fair?

00:04:47.080 How about the suppression

00:04:48.120 of the Hunter Biden left taxer?

00:04:49.560 Just for one.

00:04:50.360 Oh, for fuck's sake.

00:04:51.940 Really?

00:04:53.000 Oh, then we're not as alike as you think.

00:04:56.620 Okay.

00:04:56.980 That's a stupid non-story.

00:04:59.060 I mean, yes.

00:04:59.540 Says who? 0.65

00:05:00.360 There are polls that show

00:05:01.500 some 10 to 12% of the electorate

00:05:03.260 says they would have changed their mind

00:05:04.460 had they seen it,

00:05:05.620 had they known about it.

00:05:06.240 It wasn't right to suppress it,

00:05:09.000 but nobody gives a fuck 0.57

00:05:10.620 about Hunter Biden's dick.

00:05:12.900 Nobody.

00:05:13.680 You're talking about yourself.

00:05:14.980 I'm telling you,

00:05:15.620 there are data to show people did care.

00:05:18.160 They say they would have changed their vote.

00:05:20.480 Nobody who was going to vote for Trump anyway

00:05:23.480 or Biden anyway.

00:05:25.360 I mean...

00:05:25.800 It wasn't about Hunter Biden's man parts.

00:05:28.240 It was about the scandal

00:05:29.620 of his corruption

00:05:31.200 and his dad's corruption.

00:05:33.000 Bill, I used to think that

00:05:34.320 that Hunter Biden was a hot mess

00:05:36.580 and Joe Biden was embarrassed by him

00:05:38.540 but had to deal.

00:05:39.360 Now I really think

00:05:40.340 he was doing Joe Biden's bidding.

00:05:42.240 Joe Biden is the bad guy

00:05:43.820 who sent his drug-addled son out there

00:05:46.300 to collect money.

00:05:48.080 That's what the laptop shows.

00:05:50.720 And that's more important

00:05:51.840 than what I was bringing up

00:05:52.900 about not abiding by election results,

00:05:56.060 not respecting what always made

00:05:58.460 this country great,

00:05:59.740 the peaceful transference of power.

00:06:01.520 See, I don't disagree with you on that.

00:06:02.780 You're not going to get me to say

00:06:03.660 it was a great thing

00:06:04.560 the way Trump behaved.

00:06:05.320 I don't have to get you to agree or disagree.

00:06:07.220 You're obviously someone

00:06:08.160 who looks at an elephant and a mouse

00:06:09.900 and cannot tell which one is bigger.

00:06:11.300 I disagree.

00:06:13.040 I think that's projection by you

00:06:14.660 because I look at Joe Biden.

00:06:16.080 That's how I see you.

00:06:16.860 Well, let's talk about...

00:06:18.460 Why are you telling me this?

00:06:20.000 I mean, this is just typical

00:06:22.380 right-wing talking points,

00:06:24.680 the evil Hunter Biden

00:06:26.100 and the evil Joe Biden.

00:06:28.420 And look, do I like them?

00:06:30.080 No, I don't particularly like them.

00:06:31.400 I think they're very flawed.

00:06:32.520 Listen, listen.

00:06:32.900 It's not nearly on the scale.

00:06:34.520 You're misstating my argument.

00:06:36.080 You're misstating my argument.

00:06:37.180 Hunter Biden just now on the laptop

00:06:38.920 was brought up as evidence

00:06:40.360 of how the election was not fair.

00:06:42.080 He's not a reason necessarily

00:06:43.880 to not vote for Joe Biden.

00:06:45.640 The reason not to vote for Joe Biden

00:06:47.260 is his policies.

00:06:48.700 You're not woke.

00:06:49.760 He's as woke,

00:06:50.620 or at least his policies are,

00:06:52.000 as they come.

00:06:52.820 The open border bill?

00:06:54.120 How could anybody vote for somebody

00:06:56.400 who keeps this border open

00:06:57.460 with the number of rapes

00:06:58.480 and the number of murders

00:06:59.380 and the numbers of crimes

00:07:00.340 going on with these immigrants? 1.00

00:07:02.780 But again,

00:07:03.800 these are the normal sorts of issues

00:07:06.620 we've always had in this country

00:07:08.220 that should be taken care of

00:07:10.220 through the normal process we've had.

00:07:12.520 You're talking about

00:07:13.540 the difference between some...

00:07:15.400 I'm talking about the difference

00:07:16.500 between this

00:07:16.940 and something fundamental,

00:07:18.260 which is our democracy.

00:07:20.240 the fact that you have to respect

00:07:22.660 who wins an election

00:07:24.880 or else you don't have

00:07:26.260 the kind of country

00:07:27.280 we've always had before.

00:07:28.560 How about...

00:07:29.140 I mean,

00:07:29.340 I feel like we keep going around

00:07:30.680 the rose bush about this

00:07:33.320 and we're not going to make any progress,

00:07:34.920 so let's stop talking about it.

00:07:36.760 But, you know...

00:07:38.460 I just...

00:07:38.940 I mean,

00:07:39.160 you keep saying sort of,

00:07:40.640 I'm nuts

00:07:41.140 because I don't see the difference

00:07:42.360 between the elephant and the mouse.

00:07:43.240 And I'm telling you,

00:07:43.860 I identify them differently

00:07:45.040 than you do.

00:07:45.980 Hillary Clinton,

00:07:46.420 of course,

00:07:47.180 is the original election denier.

00:07:48.720 I'm sure you voted for her in 16. 1.00

00:07:50.540 Well, she's not an election denier. 0.99

00:07:52.200 She absolutely was the OG election denier. 0.95

00:07:55.120 She... 1.00

00:07:55.680 First of all,

00:07:56.920 she came out before the sun had risen

00:07:59.640 to concede the election to Trump.

00:08:02.200 And then spent the next four years

00:08:04.120 saying he was illegitimate.

00:08:05.700 He was an illegitimate president.

00:08:07.320 She... 1.00

00:08:07.720 Okay, well, first of all,

00:08:09.360 saying...

00:08:09.880 She didn't say he was an illegit...

00:08:11.300 Yes, she did.

00:08:11.800 Tell me exactly what she said.

00:08:13.340 She said those exact words repeatedly.

00:08:16.420 Okay.

00:08:17.540 I mean,

00:08:18.100 she conceded the election.

00:08:19.840 Whether you're interpreting

00:08:21.560 her disappointment at losing it

00:08:25.260 as the same thing as Trump

00:08:27.580 not conceding it,

00:08:28.860 I don't know

00:08:29.340 if that's where you're getting it from.

00:08:31.080 But again,

00:08:31.540 it's a tremendous false equivalency.

00:08:33.920 You could ask Hillary Clinton right now

00:08:35.740 who won that election.

00:08:36.940 She will tell you.

00:08:37.960 Donald Trump won the election.

00:08:39.100 Now she knows she has to

00:08:40.420 because of what Trump has done.

00:08:42.100 She came out that night

00:08:43.480 in her dark purple suit

00:08:46.000 and conceded the election.

00:08:47.600 And then spent the next four years

00:08:49.700 trying to convince us

00:08:50.440 it was not legitimate.

00:08:51.840 Just saying,

00:08:52.380 look, it's not the same as Trump.

00:08:53.520 What Trump did was far more severe.

00:08:55.800 I'm not going to deny that,

00:08:57.080 but don't try to tell me

00:08:58.120 that Hillary Clinton

00:08:59.180 wasn't an election denier

00:09:00.280 and Jamie Raskin

00:09:01.360 and a whole host of Democrats

00:09:03.140 who are now in prominent positions

00:09:04.520 on Capitol Hill.

00:09:05.680 Doesn't make it great

00:09:06.740 what Trump did,

00:09:07.600 but they don't have clean hands either.

00:09:09.940 But you bypassed the immigration question.

00:09:11.840 I'm not bypassing it.

00:09:13.760 I think it's a disaster.

00:09:15.120 So how would you put this guy

00:09:16.460 back in there for four more years

00:09:17.620 to leave the doors open?

00:09:19.060 And like it was so much better under Trump?

00:09:21.320 Yes, it was better under Trump.

00:09:22.900 Are you kidding me?

00:09:23.540 It was somewhat better.

00:09:24.900 Oh, Bill.

00:09:25.500 It was somewhat better.

00:09:26.680 Go look up the immigration rates.

00:09:28.240 Yeah, I know.

00:09:28.640 Illegal immigration rates. 0.78

00:09:29.580 I agree.

00:09:30.140 For 2020, for 19 to 20.

00:09:32.180 I'm not defending Biden on immigration.

00:09:34.160 I don't understand

00:09:35.080 why it's so difficult

00:09:36.500 in this country

00:09:37.760 to stop people

00:09:38.760 coming through the border.

00:09:39.580 I don't.

00:09:40.220 And I watched that 60 Minutes piece.

00:09:42.820 They did on it a couple of months ago.

00:09:44.460 And they had films

00:09:45.680 of people coming through this hole

00:09:48.020 and the border patrol

00:09:50.100 just watching them

00:09:51.180 and basically waving.

00:09:52.860 I don't understand why.

00:09:54.620 I don't understand why

00:09:55.600 this country can't accomplish

00:09:56.780 something like that.

00:09:57.700 It doesn't seem like it's impossible.

00:10:00.020 But so many things in this country.

00:10:01.240 We can.

00:10:01.300 That's what's so aggravating.

00:10:02.340 We can accomplish it.

00:10:03.240 We can stop what's happening

00:10:04.900 at the southern border.

00:10:05.620 We just won't under Joe Biden.

00:10:07.100 And he keeps pretending

00:10:08.320 like he has no agency on it.

00:10:09.800 But he does have agency.

00:10:10.940 There are a lot of executive orders

00:10:12.060 he could do just like Trump did.

00:10:13.640 He won't.

00:10:14.720 And you know why.

00:10:15.740 It's because of the people

00:10:17.000 who use the word latinx

00:10:18.440 who are trying to lecture him

00:10:19.960 that it's not humane

00:10:21.180 to enforce our borders.

00:10:22.780 Yeah, I would agree with that.

00:10:24.260 The left wing,

00:10:26.640 because they're so afraid

00:10:29.000 always of being called racist,

00:10:30.660 they let that color every issue

00:10:34.700 and very often wind up

00:10:37.780 with terrible policies

00:10:38.840 that wind up not helping people of color.

00:10:41.000 Don't you think that's what's happening

00:10:41.940 to him on the trans issue too,

00:10:43.240 which is my big issue

00:10:44.220 that I mentioned off the front?

00:10:45.360 Well, I think what Joe Biden is

00:10:46.940 is a guy who does not want to fight

00:10:48.500 with the left wing of his party.

00:10:50.000 He sees that as,

00:10:51.720 I don't think he understands

00:10:52.840 a lot of what's going on

00:10:54.200 in the left wing.

00:10:55.320 I mean, I doubt if he heard

00:10:56.900 the word trans

00:10:57.680 before he was president.

00:10:58.620 But that's what he has chosen to do.

00:11:03.620 He does not want to fight with AOC.

00:11:05.320 He thinks that's where the energy

00:11:06.500 in the party is

00:11:07.240 and he's not completely wrong.

00:11:08.620 So he just kind of goes along

00:11:10.460 with that kind of stuff.

00:11:12.380 Yeah, that's one thing

00:11:13.860 that's not great about him.

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00:12:14.160 They were in love with you

00:12:19.500 after Hillbilly Elegy

00:12:21.100 until, you know,

00:12:22.580 because they thought you were

00:12:23.220 like a Trump whisperer.

00:12:24.340 You were the guy who could help them

00:12:25.280 understand the evil man

00:12:26.500 who had ascended to the presidency.

00:12:28.580 But there was an interesting exchange

00:12:30.100 that you had on Joy Reid's show

00:12:32.120 back in the day.

00:12:33.660 This is 16, discussing your book.

00:12:35.380 We pulled it up just for kicks.

00:12:37.440 Here it is.

00:12:38.580 Katie, thank you so much for being here.

00:12:40.180 I have read so many think pieces

00:12:41.700 about your book

00:12:42.460 and seen so many interviews with you.

00:12:44.320 I have the book right here.

00:12:45.420 Can't wait to dive into it.

00:12:47.220 But your story, first of all,

00:12:49.340 is fascinating.

00:12:50.160 So the way you went from

00:12:51.340 sort of Rust Belt country to Yale.

00:12:53.160 One of the things

00:12:54.000 that's really fascinating

00:12:54.640 about your story, J.D.,

00:12:55.700 is how similar

00:12:56.780 some of the pathologies

00:12:57.700 you talk about are

00:12:59.460 to the pathologies

00:13:00.480 that normally people

00:13:01.340 assign to African-Americans, right? 0.85

00:13:03.020 That, you know,

00:13:03.580 these ideas about the way you're raised.

00:13:05.180 You're raised mostly

00:13:05.820 by your grandparents.

00:13:07.160 The way that you were able

00:13:08.140 to use opportunity

00:13:09.040 like the military

00:13:09.800 to get a college degree.

00:13:10.740 That's very familiar

00:13:11.900 across racial lines.

00:13:13.300 So why do you suppose

00:13:14.140 there's such a huge gulf

00:13:15.700 and distance ideologically

00:13:17.920 between African-Americans

00:13:19.580 and people from where you,

00:13:22.140 like the ones you came from?

00:13:24.520 Well, obviously,

00:13:25.440 a lot of it goes back

00:13:26.260 to 40 or 50 years ago

00:13:27.540 when the two groups

00:13:28.840 sort of diverged

00:13:29.860 because of certain policies

00:13:32.060 that were supported.

00:13:33.300 A big part of it

00:13:33.960 is just that because

00:13:34.800 of the way that black Americans 0.99

00:13:36.180 have been discriminated

00:13:36.900 against legally,

00:13:38.220 I think black Americans

00:13:39.300 have tended to focus

00:13:40.100 on a politics of race

00:13:41.780 and which party

00:13:42.400 is going to provide

00:13:43.240 the most racial uplift

00:13:44.600 or tear down

00:13:45.300 the most legal barriers.

00:13:46.600 Whereas white Americans 0.79

00:13:47.620 have typically voted,

00:13:48.940 their pocketbook,

00:13:50.020 voted a politics of class.

00:13:52.300 And so they've tended

00:13:53.400 to not necessarily overlap.

00:13:56.860 Pretty fascinating.

00:13:57.740 By the way,

00:13:58.060 you look so young.

00:13:58.840 It's crazy what's happened

00:14:00.000 to you in the past eight years.

00:14:02.600 It was before the beard, Megan.

00:14:04.020 That's a long time ago.

00:14:05.520 I feel like Usha's done

00:14:06.920 a good job with you, J.D.

00:14:08.360 You're sharper dressing

00:14:10.960 and I like the beard.

00:14:13.320 In any event.

00:14:13.940 You've got to chill out with that.

00:14:15.500 She's already arrogant enough 1.00

00:14:17.040 about a lot of things.

00:14:18.620 She deserves to be.

00:14:20.820 But I think you were

00:14:22.200 making a good point there.

00:14:23.260 And I think even Joy Reid

00:14:24.540 could see it back then.

00:14:25.860 Now, maybe not.

00:14:28.700 Well, look,

00:14:29.300 it's very simple.

00:14:30.300 And actually,

00:14:31.020 I think it's starting to change

00:14:31.960 by the way, Megan.

00:14:32.520 I think you see a lot of Black

00:14:33.640 and white Americans

00:14:34.400 voting more along class lines,

00:14:36.880 voting more along

00:14:37.720 who's actually best for me.

00:14:39.140 There are a lot of Black

00:14:39.860 energy workers

00:14:40.440 who are not going to benefit

00:14:41.300 from the policies

00:14:42.080 of a Harris administration

00:14:43.020 to destroy the American 0.84

00:14:44.320 energy industry.

00:14:45.480 So I do think that's

00:14:46.300 slowly starting to change.

00:14:47.700 But it is interesting

00:14:48.720 to sort of hear

00:14:49.540 how fascinated these people were

00:14:52.120 with my story

00:14:53.280 five, ten years ago.

00:14:55.240 And now that I am

00:14:56.900 on the presidential ticket,

00:14:58.380 they've decided that I'm

00:14:59.260 the worst possible guy

00:15:00.320 in the world.

00:15:01.400 It's fascinating to me.

00:15:02.720 It's not surprising, Megan.

00:15:04.280 And it's kind of

00:15:05.040 what I signed up for, right?

00:15:06.520 I mean, I want to make

00:15:07.420 people's lives better.

00:15:08.380 My whole idea here

00:15:09.860 and the reason I accepted

00:15:10.920 President Trump's invitation

00:15:12.660 to join the ticket

00:15:13.400 is because I think

00:15:14.460 that Americans

00:15:15.060 have been screwed over

00:15:16.160 by a lot of stupid policies.

00:15:17.940 I'd like to change that.

00:15:19.140 And at the cost of changing that

00:15:20.440 as people like Joy Reid

00:15:21.600 used to say nice things about me

00:15:23.360 and now they lie about me,

00:15:24.740 whatever.

00:15:25.180 As Harry S. Truman said,

00:15:26.860 if you can't take the heat,

00:15:27.920 get out of the kitchen. 0.97

00:15:28.540 I think it's an honor

00:15:29.360 to be here.

00:15:29.980 And everything that

00:15:31.020 comes along with it,

00:15:32.000 I just see as a necessary part

00:15:33.460 of having to do this job.

00:15:35.160 When Trump named you

00:15:36.280 as his running mate,

00:15:37.240 we revisited some of your bio.

00:15:39.920 And one of the points

00:15:40.760 I made that day was,

00:15:42.420 this is a man whose life

00:15:43.860 has been formed

00:15:44.540 by strong women.

00:15:46.400 That's very clear.

00:15:47.380 That's a fact.

00:15:48.800 It's not spin.

00:15:50.200 From mama,

00:15:51.680 your grandma,

00:15:53.040 to your mom,

00:15:54.260 though it was a complicated

00:15:55.120 relationship and remains so,

00:15:56.360 I'm sure,

00:15:56.980 to your sister Lindsay,

00:15:57.980 with whom you're very close,

00:15:59.060 to Aunt We.

00:15:59.880 And then you move on

00:16:01.440 to Yale Law School

00:16:02.900 and there's Amy Chua,

00:16:04.660 our mutual friend,

00:16:05.700 who we love,

00:16:06.680 who encouraged you

00:16:07.160 to write the book

00:16:07.780 and changed your life

00:16:09.040 and saw in you

00:16:09.720 this special story

00:16:10.780 in person

00:16:11.280 that ultimately

00:16:12.640 would lead you

00:16:13.100 to enter

00:16:13.540 the national conversation.

00:16:15.840 And then Usha,

00:16:17.180 who you met

00:16:17.700 at Yale Law School,

00:16:18.700 who I know

00:16:19.040 has been responsible

00:16:20.040 in large part

00:16:20.580 for teaching you

00:16:21.520 how to love,

00:16:22.880 how to be in relationship,

00:16:24.200 how to conquer

00:16:25.240 some of those

00:16:25.680 childhood demons.

00:16:27.800 So to me,

00:16:28.720 it's a great success story

00:16:30.360 of not just Dady Vance,

00:16:31.720 but of American women,

00:16:32.900 strong American women,

00:16:34.440 from Mama with her guns

00:16:36.600 and her love of the F-bomb,

00:16:39.020 to your own mom

00:16:40.780 with her addiction problems,

00:16:42.480 though she managed

00:16:43.300 to make her imprint,

00:16:45.120 to the beautiful Lindsay,

00:16:46.840 the sisterly love

00:16:47.680 who beat herself up 0.99

00:16:48.700 for not protecting you more,

00:16:49.760 ultimately,

00:16:50.680 to this more sophisticated,

00:16:52.240 incredible,

00:16:53.240 dynamic wife,

00:16:54.520 Usha,

00:16:55.640 who's taking you

00:16:56.300 on the next leg

00:16:56.960 of the journey.

00:16:57.580 So how do you see

00:16:58.820 those women 0.99

00:16:59.340 and your arc

00:17:00.480 with them, J.D.?

00:17:02.080 Well, I think it is

00:17:03.580 the through line

00:17:04.140 of my life, Megan,

00:17:04.880 that there have been

00:17:05.400 strong women 0.96

00:17:05.980 who have made it possible

00:17:06.840 for me to have

00:17:07.680 a good life.

00:17:08.880 And you mentioned Mammaw.

00:17:09.980 I've heard so many Mammaw stories

00:17:11.420 from friends and family

00:17:12.480 just in the last few days,

00:17:14.260 people who have come

00:17:15.060 out of the woodwork,

00:17:15.840 obviously,

00:17:16.200 because we gave this speech

00:17:17.260 at the RNC convention.

00:17:19.080 And one story I heard, Megan,

00:17:21.260 just a couple of days ago

00:17:22.340 from my aunt,

00:17:23.000 is we were in a car

00:17:25.100 and I was so young,

00:17:26.140 I'd just forgotten this story.

00:17:27.820 And we were driving

00:17:28.540 to eastern Kentucky

00:17:29.280 and a motorcyclist pulls up

00:17:31.900 and he's kind of swerving

00:17:32.960 and he's being aggressive

00:17:33.980 and he's just being

00:17:34.720 really ridiculous

00:17:35.320 and kind of scaring us

00:17:36.620 in the car.

00:17:37.580 And I pointed it out,

00:17:39.020 my aunt points it out,

00:17:39.960 she's driving,

00:17:41.120 and Mammaw reaches 0.98

00:17:42.100 underneath her seat,

00:17:43.000 pulls out a .44 Magnum

00:17:44.240 and taps it on the window.

00:17:46.380 And this guy sort of

00:17:47.600 almost swerves

00:17:48.380 and crashes his motorcycle.

00:17:49.560 Well, that was the end

00:17:50.280 of the motorcycle harassment.

00:17:52.260 And that's just the type

00:17:53.320 of person Mammaw was.

00:17:54.680 She was just

00:17:55.100 this incredibly strong person.

00:17:57.220 And yeah, Usha's more sophisticated

00:17:59.040 in the ways of the world,

00:18:00.660 but I think what sort of unites them

00:18:02.740 is one,

00:18:03.300 they're very tough.

00:18:04.740 Two,

00:18:05.240 they're incredibly protective

00:18:06.340 of their family.

00:18:07.080 Three,

00:18:07.380 they're very smart.

00:18:08.480 Mammaw wasn't well-educated, 1.00

00:18:10.140 but she was a very brilliant person.

00:18:12.500 And the only downside,

00:18:14.360 I'll say,

00:18:14.700 of Usha is

00:18:15.420 I asked the convention planners,

00:18:17.940 I said,

00:18:18.220 what about having my wife

00:18:19.360 introduce me

00:18:20.500 before my speech?

00:18:21.840 I'm not making that mistake

00:18:23.060 ever again, Megan,

00:18:24.000 because she did such a good job

00:18:26.080 and I was so proud of her,

00:18:27.840 but I'm not going to have

00:18:28.700 to follow that act

00:18:29.460 ever again, right?

00:18:30.340 I'm going to make Usha 0.88

00:18:31.280 introduce President Trump.

00:18:32.760 She really was.

00:18:34.200 Part of her nature,

00:18:35.760 like the way she projects

00:18:36.800 this self-deprecating nature

00:18:37.980 is what makes her 0.98

00:18:38.700 so attractive and charming.

00:18:40.900 Yeah,

00:18:41.240 and she's just herself.

00:18:42.960 And, you know,

00:18:44.320 what I was worried about

00:18:45.600 having never been

00:18:46.300 in the spotlight is

00:18:47.320 I just want you, honey,

00:18:48.720 to be,

00:18:49.620 I said this to Usha,

00:18:50.520 I just want you to be

00:18:51.320 who you are

00:18:51.860 because I love you,

00:18:53.520 the world's going to

00:18:54.140 fall in love with you.

00:18:55.160 And she just went out there,

00:18:56.440 she didn't accept

00:18:57.180 the speechwriter's speech,

00:18:58.300 she wrote her own speech,

00:18:59.800 said exactly what she wanted to say,

00:19:01.700 and she did such a good job with it. 0.78

00:19:03.240 And I just, you know,

00:19:04.220 as a guy who's very in love

00:19:05.760 with his wife,

00:19:06.320 I was very, very proud of her,

00:19:07.640 but not following

00:19:08.640 that speech again, Megan.

00:19:10.000 So how did you feel

00:19:11.080 when you got the call from Trump?

00:19:12.380 You know,

00:19:12.520 you and I talked

00:19:13.260 when you were,

00:19:13.820 you weren't even in politics.

00:19:14.700 You had just returned to Ohio

00:19:16.060 from San Francisco.

00:19:17.220 You were telling me

00:19:17.960 you just couldn't take

00:19:18.980 like the people

00:19:19.500 openly defecating on the sidewalks.

00:19:21.180 It was a lot from this kid,

00:19:23.060 this kid from, you know, Midwest.

00:19:25.460 You weren't even in politics

00:19:26.580 and now, you know,

00:19:27.740 flash forward eight years later,

00:19:28.820 you get the call

00:19:29.340 from President Trump

00:19:29.900 asking you to be his running mate.

00:19:31.240 How did he put it to you?

00:19:32.640 How did he ask you

00:19:33.380 and how did it feel?

00:19:35.760 Well, the funny thing,

00:19:36.820 Megan,

00:19:36.980 is we're in the hotel room

00:19:38.080 in Milwaukee.

00:19:38.740 We had just arrived.

00:19:40.160 He apparently called

00:19:41.220 and I didn't see the call

00:19:42.460 because it went straight

00:19:43.160 to voicemail or something.

00:19:44.520 So I call him back

00:19:45.660 and he answers the phone.

00:19:47.900 He says,

00:19:48.240 you know, J.D.,

00:19:48.740 you missed a very important

00:19:49.680 phone call.

00:19:50.320 Maybe I'll have to give

00:19:51.200 this to somebody else.

00:19:52.840 So my heart kind of stops, right?

00:19:54.580 And I tense up

00:19:55.620 really, really powerfully.

00:19:57.540 But the funniest thing, Megan,

00:19:59.160 is because we're

00:20:00.080 in the hotel room

00:20:00.960 with my seven-year-old kid,

00:20:02.900 he's talking about

00:20:03.780 his Pokemon cards, right?

00:20:05.220 So I'm trying to have

00:20:06.480 this conversation

00:20:07.220 with the president

00:20:07.900 of the United States

00:20:08.880 offering me the

00:20:09.640 vice presidential nod.

00:20:10.880 And in the background,

00:20:11.620 my seven-year-old's

00:20:12.300 talking about Pikachu.

00:20:13.340 I'm like, God,

00:20:14.080 for the love of God, son,

00:20:15.100 for 30 seconds,

00:20:16.220 just let me have

00:20:16.980 this conversation.

00:20:18.560 And it's funny.

00:20:19.640 The president hears him

00:20:20.980 and says,

00:20:21.980 put him on the phone

00:20:22.640 and then asks

00:20:24.540 my seven-year-old,

00:20:25.440 what do you think

00:20:25.840 about this statement

00:20:26.640 I'm about to put out

00:20:27.820 nominating your dad

00:20:29.740 for vice president?

00:20:30.780 And my son listens to it.

00:20:32.000 He says,

00:20:32.240 oh, that sounds nice.

00:20:33.140 And it's just

00:20:36.360 such a surreal moment.

00:20:37.480 My wife actually got 1.00

00:20:38.240 a photo of me

00:20:39.180 on the phone

00:20:40.000 with the president.

00:20:41.500 You know,

00:20:41.720 what an honor, right?

00:20:42.640 I mean,

00:20:42.800 that's the thing

00:20:43.500 that I try to just

00:20:44.520 remind myself of

00:20:45.500 every single day

00:20:46.400 is I didn't come

00:20:48.220 from anything material, right?

00:20:50.180 I did not have

00:20:50.860 the advantages

00:20:51.460 of a lot of people

00:20:52.260 in politics,

00:20:52.800 but I had an incredibly

00:20:54.220 loving family

00:20:55.140 and I just feel so grateful

00:20:57.140 to have this opportunity.

00:20:58.900 And as I said

00:20:59.540 to the convention, Megan,

00:21:00.420 that the most important thing

00:21:01.480 that I think

00:21:01.840 I can bring to the ticket

00:21:02.960 is to never forget

00:21:04.440 where I came from,

00:21:05.240 to never forget

00:21:05.920 the perspective

00:21:06.500 of people who are struggling.

00:21:08.380 Like, you know,

00:21:08.940 it's people like Mamaw 0.99

00:21:09.980 who really suffer

00:21:11.180 when grocery prices

00:21:12.320 go up as much

00:21:13.000 as they have

00:21:13.620 under the Harris administration.

00:21:15.240 It's people like Mom

00:21:16.620 who struggled with addiction,

00:21:18.120 but she's been clean

00:21:18.860 for 10 years now

00:21:19.800 who really, really struggle

00:21:21.480 when you have

00:21:22.320 this poisonous fentanyl

00:21:23.320 coming across

00:21:23.940 our southern border.

00:21:24.840 So I just want to remember

00:21:26.200 where I came from,

00:21:27.540 serve the people

00:21:28.220 who made me who I am.

00:21:29.580 And I think if I do that,

00:21:30.800 I'll be a fine vice president

00:21:32.040 and the country

00:21:32.560 will be better for it.

00:21:33.360 But that's my goal.

00:21:36.420 The book does spend

00:21:37.480 some time on

00:21:38.240 positive messaging

00:21:39.320 and how you talk

00:21:41.120 about the astronaut theory

00:21:42.040 and how when we're

00:21:42.660 raising our kids,

00:21:44.020 we can't,

00:21:44.960 we don't want to

00:21:45.340 overcorrect so much

00:21:46.480 against everybody

00:21:47.520 gets a trophy society

00:21:48.640 that we veer

00:21:50.240 into cynicism

00:21:51.260 with our kids.

00:21:52.320 Like, no,

00:21:53.460 I mean,

00:21:54.060 let's be realistic.

00:21:54.860 You're not actually

00:21:55.500 going to the NFL.

00:21:56.520 Maybe you should channel

00:21:57.260 your energies

00:21:57.780 a different way.

00:21:58.560 You're very much

00:21:59.460 against that.

00:22:00.060 I think the positive,

00:22:01.260 uplifting name

00:22:02.680 for yourself

00:22:03.540 is totally in line

00:22:04.520 with now I know

00:22:05.500 how you parent

00:22:06.060 your own daughters.

00:22:07.920 Absolutely.

00:22:08.540 And, you know,

00:22:09.060 I got four daughters

00:22:10.220 and when they ask me,

00:22:11.500 when they tell me

00:22:12.160 they want to do things,

00:22:13.240 I don't shoot it down

00:22:14.500 because I had

00:22:15.140 older people in my life

00:22:16.640 who did that to me.

00:22:17.500 I tell a story

00:22:18.560 in one of my first books,

00:22:20.440 because this is my third book,

00:22:21.280 but I tell a story

00:22:21.840 in my first book,

00:22:22.620 Black Privilege, 0.98

00:22:23.180 about how

00:22:23.780 I had a cousin aunt.

00:22:27.180 She was like my mom's cousin,

00:22:29.500 but she was also

00:22:30.040 like an aunt to me as well.

00:22:31.200 And I remember just

00:22:32.180 talking about

00:22:33.500 all of these big plans I had

00:22:35.220 and all of these things

00:22:35.960 I wanted to do with my life.

00:22:37.220 And I remember she said to me,

00:22:38.720 don't set your goals so high.

00:22:41.120 You know,

00:22:41.380 don't set your goals so high

00:22:42.540 because if you don't reach them,

00:22:44.000 you're going to be disappointed.

00:22:45.360 And I paused for a second

00:22:46.400 and I said,

00:22:46.920 that is the stupidest shit

00:22:48.120 I ever heard in my life.

00:22:49.880 Like,

00:22:50.160 why would you ever tell

00:22:51.360 a child that?

00:22:52.480 Like,

00:22:52.560 I wasn't even a child.

00:22:53.860 I was like,

00:22:54.380 I don't know,

00:22:54.820 19, 20,

00:22:55.440 but I was like,

00:22:55.700 why would you ever tell

00:22:56.500 anybody that?

00:22:57.580 So my thing with my kids,

00:22:58.960 when they want to do something,

00:23:00.720 yo,

00:23:01.000 let's try it out.

00:23:01.820 Like,

00:23:01.960 I got one of my daughters 0.99

00:23:03.720 recently started soccer

00:23:05.100 and,

00:23:06.100 you know,

00:23:06.560 she liked it at first.

00:23:08.960 Past couple of practices,

00:23:10.180 she don't want to go.

00:23:11.400 Why?

00:23:11.960 She said,

00:23:12.320 it's too hot out.

00:23:13.680 I don't want to be out there

00:23:14.720 in that heat.

00:23:15.600 I'm not going to force her

00:23:16.440 to go out there

00:23:17.100 and do the soccer

00:23:18.560 if she doesn't want to.

00:23:19.720 Because if you genuinely

00:23:20.600 love something,

00:23:21.620 you're going to want to do it

00:23:22.780 regardless.

00:23:23.780 Right?

00:23:24.060 That's how I was with radio.

00:23:25.260 It didn't matter that I wasn't

00:23:26.440 making any money.

00:23:27.380 I've been doing radio 26 years.

00:23:28.640 I didn't start making money

00:23:29.540 really,

00:23:30.320 really in radio

00:23:30.900 until probably my,

00:23:32.000 I don't know,

00:23:33.640 10th,

00:23:34.240 12th year in radio.

00:23:35.480 So it took a long time.

00:23:37.000 You know,

00:23:37.140 I started doing radio

00:23:38.100 I started doing radio in 1998.

00:23:38.840 I didn't start really making money

00:23:40.200 until probably 2010.

00:23:42.620 Right?

00:23:43.220 So,

00:23:43.840 but I loved it.

00:23:44.680 So that thing that you

00:23:45.920 love to do

00:23:47.660 that is probably

00:23:48.700 going to change your life

00:23:49.560 is that thing

00:23:50.080 that you're going to do for free.

00:23:51.420 So if she's,

00:23:52.800 if she doesn't want to go do soccer,

00:23:54.200 I'm not,

00:23:54.580 I'm not going to press her

00:23:55.700 to do it.

00:23:56.580 Yeah,

00:23:56.860 there's no,

00:23:57.340 but I'll give her the opportunity.

00:23:59.780 Committing to that

00:24:00.380 at this point in her life.

00:24:01.440 So I want to ask you this

00:24:02.780 because you're very positive

00:24:04.060 in your messaging.

00:24:04.780 You're real,

00:24:05.400 but you're positive

00:24:06.180 in your messaging.

00:24:07.020 And then there was a chapter

00:24:08.920 I wanted to ask you about,

00:24:09.660 which was 16.

00:24:10.580 This wasn't you.

00:24:11.760 It was Aaron McGruder,

00:24:14.280 who was the man behind

00:24:15.040 the Boondocks comic strip.

00:24:17.100 And it was the only chapter

00:24:18.120 I was like,

00:24:19.120 wow,

00:24:19.660 well,

00:24:19.960 this is not positive.

00:24:21.120 This is,

00:24:21.420 this is some stark stuff.

00:24:23.600 And it's about race.

00:24:24.380 It's called death of a nation.

00:24:25.880 Yeah.

00:24:26.260 It's about race in America.

00:24:27.880 And it's about,

00:24:28.580 you know,

00:24:29.940 us allegedly being

00:24:31.100 a white supremacist country

00:24:33.080 and Republicans

00:24:35.240 don't do shit

00:24:36.140 for poor white people,

00:24:37.620 but they still vote Republican

00:24:39.580 and they do it

00:24:40.460 because if they were

00:24:41.760 to vote Democrat,

00:24:42.960 the N word would benefit. 1.00

00:24:44.380 It's got a lot of

00:24:45.040 incendiary thoughts

00:24:45.900 on how evil Republicans are

00:24:47.780 because they really just exist

00:24:49.120 to keep the black man down. 0.99

00:24:51.300 And I,

00:24:52.100 it's not you,

00:24:52.940 but you have put it in your book

00:24:54.220 by this guy,

00:24:54.860 Aaron McGruder.

00:24:55.540 So what are your feelings on that?

00:24:59.060 I think Aaron is expressing

00:25:00.820 an emotion

00:25:02.460 and feelings

00:25:03.380 and saying things

00:25:04.500 that a lot of people feel,

00:25:06.560 you know,

00:25:06.860 a lot of people

00:25:07.500 in the black community

00:25:08.280 absolutely positively

00:25:09.200 feel like that,

00:25:09.860 but it's not even,

00:25:10.600 you know,

00:25:11.260 just Republicans.

00:25:12.060 I just feel like,

00:25:12.920 you know,

00:25:13.240 government in general,

00:25:14.380 I think that there's been

00:25:15.280 a lot of systemic things

00:25:16.420 that have been done,

00:25:17.660 you know,

00:25:18.280 to black people

00:25:19.260 in this country

00:25:19.780 to put,

00:25:20.380 you know,

00:25:20.740 black people

00:25:21.240 in certain positions

00:25:22.040 in this country.

00:25:22.740 And there hasn't been

00:25:23.920 enough systemic things done,

00:25:25.440 you know,

00:25:25.800 to get us out.

00:25:26.640 You know,

00:25:26.800 I think one of the,

00:25:27.760 you know,

00:25:28.100 main critiques

00:25:28.900 of the Democratic Party

00:25:30.060 is,

00:25:30.620 you know,

00:25:31.100 they are supposed

00:25:31.800 to be the party

00:25:32.540 that represents us

00:25:34.200 and supports us.

00:25:36.020 And,

00:25:36.240 you know,

00:25:36.860 people don't feel like

00:25:37.880 they have fought

00:25:38.900 hard enough

00:25:39.860 for black people.

00:25:40.960 That's why every,

00:25:41.740 you know,

00:25:42.320 presidential election cycle,

00:25:43.540 we're back having

00:25:44.700 these same,

00:25:46.000 you know,

00:25:46.580 conversations about,

00:25:47.960 you know,

00:25:48.460 Democrats going out there

00:25:49.500 and earning the black vote.

00:25:51.120 Like if Democrats

00:25:51.860 had done,

00:25:53.240 you know,

00:25:53.760 historically

00:25:54.320 what they say

00:25:55.960 they are going to do

00:25:57.320 for black people,

00:25:58.840 you know,

00:25:59.300 they wouldn't be

00:26:00.060 in this position

00:26:00.700 every four years

00:26:01.760 where they're out here

00:26:03.200 trying to push me

00:26:04.220 to endorse.

00:26:04.720 What do you think that is?

00:26:05.340 Like,

00:26:05.640 what do you think that is?

00:26:06.220 Because I know

00:26:06.560 there's a divide

00:26:07.180 between the parties

00:26:08.040 and some factions

00:26:08.780 of the country

00:26:09.320 that,

00:26:10.220 you know,

00:26:10.500 the Democrats

00:26:11.100 and we keep hearing

00:26:11.840 them saying things.

00:26:13.080 We heard Biden

00:26:13.720 at the Morehouse College

00:26:14.940 the other day

00:26:15.460 saying with a very dark

00:26:17.060 message about this country

00:26:18.040 that the country

00:26:18.580 doesn't love you back

00:26:19.540 as a young black graduate

00:26:21.140 and talking

00:26:22.900 in very negative terms

00:26:23.880 about what their futures

00:26:24.820 look like

00:26:25.480 and you contrast

00:26:26.520 that just to what

00:26:27.160 Barack Obama said

00:26:28.040 in front of the same audience,

00:26:29.220 you know,

00:26:29.600 eight years ago.

00:26:30.520 It was very uplifting

00:26:31.900 and also empowering.

00:26:33.960 Like,

00:26:34.480 you can do it.

00:26:35.580 You can make a difference

00:26:36.500 in this great country.

00:26:37.360 You have nothing

00:26:37.700 but blue sky ahead of you.

00:26:39.360 Very different,

00:26:40.940 stark messages.

00:26:42.600 What's in Chapter 16

00:26:43.700 sounds more like Biden.

00:26:45.280 So how do you see it?

00:26:46.540 More like Biden?

00:26:47.260 More like Obama? 0.71

00:26:48.720 Well,

00:26:49.160 I think

00:26:49.520 I would like to see it

00:26:51.720 more like President Obama

00:26:53.740 and the reason

00:26:54.200 I would like to see it

00:26:55.060 more like President Obama

00:26:56.120 because as he said,

00:26:57.480 these are his words,

00:26:58.220 the audacity of hope.

00:26:59.980 Like,

00:27:00.060 you have to be optimistic.

00:27:01.720 Like,

00:27:01.880 I'm optimistic

00:27:02.700 because I was raised

00:27:03.620 on a dirt road

00:27:04.340 in, you know,

00:27:05.060 Monk's Corner

00:27:05.480 in South Carolina.

00:27:06.320 My mother was

00:27:06.780 an English teacher.

00:27:07.400 The most she ever made,

00:27:08.540 you know,

00:27:08.760 was $30,000 a year

00:27:10.240 at one point.

00:27:10.940 You know,

00:27:11.060 my father was a great guy,

00:27:13.600 you know,

00:27:13.920 who had a lot of flaws,

00:27:15.580 right?

00:27:15.840 And he was a construction worker

00:27:17.740 but he also had

00:27:18.400 his own mental health issues

00:27:19.420 and his,

00:27:20.140 you know,

00:27:20.340 he dealt with substance abuse

00:27:21.680 and I'm not supposed to come,

00:27:23.620 you know,

00:27:24.140 out of that circumstance

00:27:26.760 but because,

00:27:27.740 you know,

00:27:28.080 I was able to come

00:27:29.020 out of that circumstance

00:27:29.800 and just because of,

00:27:31.280 you know,

00:27:31.460 other conversations

00:27:32.340 I've seen from people

00:27:33.220 who come from

00:27:33.660 environments like mine,

00:27:35.340 I have to have

00:27:36.420 the audacity of hope.

00:27:37.800 I have to have,

00:27:38.720 you know,

00:27:39.180 optimism

00:27:39.640 but I also have to deal

00:27:40.760 with reality too

00:27:42.060 and it's just interesting

00:27:43.560 that,

00:27:43.880 you know,

00:27:44.680 President Biden

00:27:45.600 would go to Morehouse

00:27:46.540 and,

00:27:47.000 you know,

00:27:47.280 make those statements

00:27:48.180 when a lot of those issues,

00:27:51.120 those problems

00:27:51.760 he's contributed to,

00:27:53.280 you know,

00:27:53.560 whether it was,

00:27:54.520 you know,

00:27:54.780 the 86 mandatory

00:27:56.620 minimum sentencing,

00:27:57.900 you know,

00:27:58.120 whether it was

00:27:58.520 the 88 crack law, 0.51

00:27:59.700 the 94 crime bill,

00:28:00.940 there's a lot of things

00:28:01.840 that he,

00:28:02.740 you know,

00:28:03.020 contributed to

00:28:04.060 in regards to keeping,

00:28:05.700 you know,

00:28:06.400 the black man down. 0.83

00:28:10.820 You know,

00:28:11.360 I grew up Catholic

00:28:12.140 and never really took

00:28:13.780 church seriously.

00:28:15.060 I never did

00:28:18.640 and then when I left home

00:28:19.480 I never really went back

00:28:20.760 and it kind of lost faith

00:28:22.660 and I'm not saying

00:28:23.940 I wasn't a believer,

00:28:24.940 I just didn't really care

00:28:26.400 and I didn't think about it

00:28:27.700 and I had definitely

00:28:29.120 no time for God

00:28:31.300 and so I took that as a,

00:28:35.040 I mean,

00:28:35.340 that was like a slap

00:28:36.640 in the face

00:28:37.220 and I decided

00:28:38.540 I needed to get serious

00:28:39.660 about faith

00:28:40.300 and at least look into it

00:28:41.440 and so I started

00:28:42.440 looking into it

00:28:43.280 and it's been great

00:28:45.680 and you know,

00:28:46.860 to be honest,

00:28:47.440 it's the only thing

00:28:48.200 I can find

00:28:48.740 that makes any damn sense anymore

00:28:50.240 and it's all,

00:28:51.560 it's all in that book.

00:28:53.040 Everything we're seeing happening

00:28:54.200 right now

00:28:54.880 is in that book.

00:28:55.380 Is that how you started,

00:28:56.280 just reading the Bible?

00:28:57.280 I did,

00:28:58.080 I did.

00:28:58.480 I started trying to read it

00:28:59.560 from front to back

00:29:00.520 and I wasn't really getting anywhere

00:29:03.860 and then...

00:29:04.380 Some shocking stuff

00:29:05.080 in that Old Testament

00:29:05.780 if you go that way.

00:29:07.980 Yeah,

00:29:08.480 and but then turns out,

00:29:11.840 as it turns out,

00:29:12.900 my entire team,

00:29:14.040 I'm really close

00:29:14.900 with my team,

00:29:15.960 my podcast team,

00:29:17.560 the guys that work for me

00:29:19.840 and make it what it is

00:29:22.220 and it turns out

00:29:24.280 one guy was raised Southern Baptist,

00:29:26.720 super well-versed in the Bible.

00:29:28.380 My editor, Darren,

00:29:30.460 grew up a Jehovah's Witness 1.00

00:29:32.700 and escaped it,

00:29:35.860 but knows,

00:29:37.300 I mean,

00:29:37.640 knows that book

00:29:38.380 from front to back.

00:29:39.400 my IT guy,

00:29:43.480 Adam,

00:29:45.260 devout Catholic,

00:29:46.620 knows it all,

00:29:47.980 everything,

00:29:48.740 Elijah,

00:29:49.460 my production manager,

00:29:50.720 he's the Southern Baptist guy

00:29:52.180 and they kind of started

00:29:54.460 pouring into me

00:29:55.400 and a lot of my buddies

00:29:58.680 that were in the SEAL teams,

00:30:00.780 Eddie Penny really kind of

00:30:02.040 paved the way

00:30:03.360 for all of this,

00:30:04.220 I think.

00:30:05.280 Eddie Penny was a,

00:30:06.920 we were a team two together

00:30:08.040 and then he went on

00:30:10.080 to dev group

00:30:10.760 and just like,

00:30:13.400 oh,

00:30:13.700 mom,

00:30:14.140 I mean,

00:30:15.680 not who you would expect

00:30:17.900 to come to faith,

00:30:19.220 but he was my Christmas episode

00:30:22.000 a couple years ago

00:30:23.840 and ever since he came on

00:30:26.120 and gave his testimony

00:30:28.720 of how he came to,

00:30:29.980 everybody that's been

00:30:32.460 on the show

00:30:32.940 has brought it up

00:30:33.860 and he became

00:30:36.420 kind of a mentor of mine

00:30:37.880 so I called Eddie

00:30:38.840 and told him

00:30:39.960 and I said,

00:30:41.000 hey,

00:30:41.080 this is what happened,

00:30:42.760 I don't really know

00:30:43.920 where to start,

00:30:44.780 I don't really know

00:30:45.500 what this means

00:30:46.260 and we had a conversation

00:30:49.800 and he goes,

00:30:52.400 he was like,

00:30:53.380 oh,

00:30:53.620 man,

00:30:54.180 he's like,

00:30:54.540 a lot of us

00:30:55.440 have been praying

00:30:55.940 for this to happen

00:30:56.720 and that kind of freaked me out.

00:30:59.240 I was like,

00:30:59.740 what do you mean?

00:31:01.260 And he's like,

00:31:02.340 we've been waiting for this.

00:31:03.640 He's like,

00:31:04.000 you have a big voice

00:31:05.280 and this needs to happen

00:31:08.720 and so that was at about midnight.

00:31:12.440 Now I'm getting into some other

00:31:13.580 kind of weird synchronicity coincidences

00:31:16.440 and so about 12 hours later,

00:31:19.980 I had a meeting that Adam,

00:31:22.440 my IT guy,

00:31:23.400 had scheduled with me at noon

00:31:24.620 and Eddie was telling me

00:31:30.160 during the conversation

00:31:31.100 he was talking about guardian angels

00:31:33.200 and all this other stuff

00:31:34.340 that was spiritual warfare,

00:31:35.820 stuff that I'd known like nothing about.

00:31:38.080 Well,

00:31:38.660 fast forward 12 hours,

00:31:40.540 I'm talking to Adam.

00:31:41.580 I didn't know what this meeting was.

00:31:42.720 I thought it was about email marketing

00:31:44.080 or something

00:31:44.640 and he wanted to talk to me

00:31:47.760 about spiritual warfare

00:31:49.620 and guardian angels.

00:31:51.360 Wow.

00:31:52.100 And I was like,

00:31:54.020 it was literally like

00:31:55.280 almost the exact same conversation

00:31:57.160 as I had had with Eddie Penny.

00:31:58.700 You're like,

00:31:59.180 that's not on the drop down menu

00:32:00.620 of message manager,

00:32:02.140 meeting manager.

00:32:03.020 I know,

00:32:03.220 and they're not friends.

00:32:04.380 I mean,

00:32:04.640 Adam is,

00:32:06.040 with all due respect,

00:32:07.100 coordinating those two guys?

00:32:09.240 Eddie is a,

00:32:10.580 built like a shit brick house,

00:32:12.640 a dev group operator

00:32:13.800 and Adam is a IT computer nerd

00:32:17.960 who I love to death.

00:32:19.680 And so no,

00:32:20.860 they don't,

00:32:21.440 they don't,

00:32:22.080 there's no cross pollination.

00:32:23.700 They're not friends.

00:32:24.480 I've never spoken.

00:32:25.640 Exact same conversation

00:32:26.920 at noon,

00:32:28.000 come home for lunch

00:32:29.320 from my studio

00:32:30.040 to be with the wife and kids

00:32:31.820 and Adam

00:32:34.380 and anyways,

00:32:37.380 I go back to work.

00:32:38.960 I look at my clock

00:32:40.020 in my truck

00:32:41.260 and it says it's 444.

00:32:43.360 I look at the odometer.

00:32:45.320 It says 444 miles left to E

00:32:47.720 and this is four hours

00:32:49.000 and 44 minutes

00:32:50.040 after my conversation

00:32:51.220 with Adam

00:32:51.700 about guardian angels.

00:32:54.140 So I look up

00:32:55.040 the meaning of 444

00:32:56.240 and it is

00:32:58.180 your guardian angels

00:32:59.780 want you to know

00:33:00.660 that they have got you

00:33:03.760 and I'm just,

00:33:06.960 I'm like,

00:33:08.060 holy shit, man.

00:33:09.540 Like we just had

00:33:10.540 two conversations

00:33:11.540 about guardian angels

00:33:12.940 and now I'm seeing 444

00:33:14.480 everywhere within.

00:33:15.900 I saw Gabe.

00:33:16.680 Yeah.

00:33:17.140 And,

00:33:17.620 and,

00:33:18.340 and it's

00:33:20.320 in the meaning of it

00:33:21.640 supposedly according to Google

00:33:23.220 is your guardian angels

00:33:25.260 want you to know

00:33:25.940 that they've got you

00:33:26.740 and,

00:33:27.640 and so I've been in it

00:33:29.400 ever since

00:33:29.960 and,

00:33:30.360 and I've had some

00:33:31.800 great mentors

00:33:32.780 and started going to church

00:33:34.980 that didn't last very long

00:33:36.940 and,

00:33:37.700 and now we have,

00:33:39.660 we have a,

00:33:40.520 a group of,

00:33:42.060 there's four families

00:33:43.040 including us,

00:33:44.560 a lot of trust,

00:33:46.060 very close,

00:33:46.860 friends of ours

00:33:48.520 and we,

00:33:48.980 we just have a discussion

00:33:50.520 every week,

00:33:51.500 every,

00:33:52.020 every Tuesday.

00:33:53.340 So when I get home today,

00:33:54.680 that's,

00:33:55.220 that's,

00:33:56.120 that's what we're doing

00:33:56.840 and,

00:33:57.760 it's cool.

00:33:59.040 You get to ask the tough questions.

00:34:01.120 You can't,

00:34:01.800 you don't need to be embarrassed.

00:34:02.800 You're not going to offend anybody.

00:34:04.000 You don't feel judged

00:34:05.260 like you're going to church.

00:34:07.240 Everybody,

00:34:07.600 you know,

00:34:07.800 I always feel like I'm being judged.

00:34:09.560 Oh,

00:34:09.920 hello,

00:34:10.260 we're Catholic.

00:34:10.960 Yeah.

00:34:11.800 Built in.

00:34:13.100 And,

00:34:13.580 and there's none of that.

00:34:15.300 And man,

00:34:17.280 you know,

00:34:17.900 when you,

00:34:18.780 when you kind of take all of the BS

00:34:21.040 that religion kind of injects 0.99

00:34:22.520 into,

00:34:23.660 end of your journey

00:34:25.660 of building relationship

00:34:27.340 with,

00:34:27.900 with the creator

00:34:29.920 and Jesus,

00:34:31.720 it's really interesting

00:34:33.660 and it can be a lot of fun.

00:34:35.140 I know what you're saying.

00:34:36.520 My audience knows

00:34:37.560 I've been having a,

00:34:38.480 not unrelated struggle

00:34:40.400 on that exact score.

00:34:42.300 Really?

00:34:43.040 Yeah.

00:34:43.720 Yeah.

00:34:44.180 I'm,

00:34:44.620 I'm Catholic,

00:34:45.860 lifelong Catholic.

00:34:46.500 And I started the process

00:34:48.540 of having my first marriage annulled.

00:34:51.520 And instead of like bringing me closer to God

00:34:54.660 or setting me in a path

00:34:55.860 that I thought would land well,

00:34:57.160 it really has kind of alienated me.

00:34:59.720 And it's caused a bit of a crisis of faith.

00:35:03.160 You know,

00:35:03.320 like who are these middlemen

00:35:05.220 I have to go through

00:35:06.100 in order to have a clean relationship with God?

00:35:08.660 That doesn't make any sense to me.

00:35:10.600 I think God loves me

00:35:12.380 and God sees me in a loving marriage

00:35:14.320 with three wonderful kids

00:35:16.080 who have two great parents who are in love.

00:35:19.680 And he's thrilled.

00:35:21.380 And he will accept me into his kingdom

00:35:24.620 when it's all said and done.

00:35:26.600 And if he doesn't,

00:35:27.680 it's certainly not going to be

00:35:28.360 because I didn't get a paper,

00:35:29.840 I got a paper divorce from Dan,

00:35:31.300 but I didn't get an annulment from a priest,

00:35:34.440 you know,

00:35:35.360 and then Mary dug in a Catholic church. 1.00

00:35:37.500 It doesn't make any sense to me.

00:35:40.380 So that's sort of where I am right now.

00:35:42.620 I'm still wrestling with it.

00:35:43.500 I got tons of great feedback.

00:35:44.640 By the way,

00:35:45.020 thank you to my audience

00:35:45.840 because so many thoughtful emails on it,

00:35:47.840 you know,

00:35:48.740 from Catholic listeners,

00:35:51.260 but also just Christian listeners

00:35:53.340 who don't believe in that,

00:35:54.760 you know,

00:35:55.140 middleman thing either.

00:35:57.100 I haven't resolved it.

00:35:59.280 Well,

00:36:00.800 I'll keep my opinion to myself,

00:36:02.720 but the middleman is a lie.

00:36:09.160 There are no middlemen.

00:36:11.960 It's just about you and your relationship.

00:36:14.820 And that's it.

00:36:16.840 I'll let you know that.

00:36:19.640 And when you think like that,

00:36:21.680 I mean,

00:36:21.980 it gives me a sense of peace,

00:36:24.260 you know,

00:36:24.640 and then you start looking at all the stuff

00:36:27.220 that's going on like Trans Visibility Day

00:36:29.520 being declared on Easter Sunday.

00:36:31.840 Like you can't tell me these aren't signs,

00:36:35.480 you know,

00:36:36.060 and this is all,

00:36:36.920 like I said,

00:36:37.420 this is all in there.

00:36:38.280 I'm still reading through it.

00:36:39.320 I'm not through it all yet.

00:36:40.460 I don't claim to be an expert,

00:36:41.980 but,

00:36:42.440 but,

00:36:43.640 you know,

00:36:44.280 I see things.

00:36:45.560 I have a team to lean on

00:36:46.840 who's well-versed in this stuff.

00:36:48.660 That was very fortunate.

00:36:50.460 And,

00:36:50.760 and it's,

00:36:53.200 everything we're seeing happen

00:36:55.160 is in that book.

00:36:57.220 And when you can,

00:36:59.200 when you come to that realization,

00:37:02.840 it's really odd,

00:37:04.600 but all the stuff that like,

00:37:06.300 all the stuff that was bothering me,

00:37:08.140 and it still does bother me,

00:37:10.180 but at the same time,

00:37:11.580 it makes me stronger because up,

00:37:15.100 that was supposed to happen.

00:37:18.400 You know,

00:37:18.780 up,

00:37:19.160 that's in that book.

00:37:20.380 Up,

00:37:21.100 like,

00:37:22.000 really,

00:37:22.360 like trans visibility day,

00:37:24.980 a confusion of genders on Easter Sunday,

00:37:28.060 making a mockery of the resurrection,

00:37:30.200 like,

00:37:30.560 that was in there.

00:37:32.980 Yep.

00:37:33.780 And,

00:37:34.240 and,

00:37:36.080 so.

00:37:37.020 So how do you feel now?

00:37:38.000 Do you feel a difference physically,

00:37:39.900 you know,

00:37:40.160 emotionally?

00:37:41.180 Oh,

00:37:41.440 yeah.

00:37:41.600 now versus during the Chinese trial balloon period,

00:37:45.820 which was dark.

00:37:46.640 Definitely.

00:37:47.300 I mean,

00:37:47.540 I'm at,

00:37:48.000 I'm at peace with it.

00:37:50.220 I mean,

00:37:50.700 I'm still going to fight the good fight and I'm still going to bring truth

00:37:53.860 and uncover corruption and tell these stories.

00:37:55.900 And I'm not going to bend a knee to anything.

00:37:58.120 And,

00:37:58.440 and,

00:37:58.960 and,

00:38:00.940 but,

00:38:01.520 you know,

00:38:01.960 it,

00:38:02.380 it,

00:38:02.980 but seeing it all happen,

00:38:04.620 it's,

00:38:05.740 it is actually making me stronger because I found something in a world of

00:38:12.500 nothing that makes any sense at all,

00:38:14.460 not a damn bit of sense.

00:38:16.180 This makes all the sense in the world.

00:38:18.160 It's,

00:38:18.640 it aligns with the values that I've always had,

00:38:21.480 or maybe I align with its values,

00:38:23.520 you know,

00:38:23.860 but,

00:38:24.220 but,

00:38:24.900 but it,

00:38:26.640 yeah,

00:38:26.900 it's helped me.

00:38:27.540 And,

00:38:28.140 and then you start learning about,

00:38:31.480 you know,

00:38:32.720 maybe forgiveness is for you and not for the people that did something bad to

00:38:40.760 you that was unjust.

00:38:42.640 You know,

00:38:42.940 it's,

00:38:43.160 it's,

00:38:43.520 it's for your sense of peace,

00:38:45.620 not for theirs.

00:38:46.780 You know,

00:38:47.020 you can,

00:38:47.840 you can go on and waste all that bad energy,

00:38:50.280 hating somebody and talking shit about them and, 0.85

00:38:53.060 you know,

00:38:53.820 complaining,

00:38:54.780 you know,

00:38:55.140 I got screwed over and I'm a victim and dah,

00:38:57.120 dah,

00:38:57.220 dah,

00:38:57.320 dah,

00:38:57.420 dah,

00:38:57.480 but the minute you forgive them,

00:38:59.780 that's off your plate.

00:39:00.700 And it just,

00:39:01.400 it,

00:39:01.800 it's,

00:39:02.680 it's,

00:39:03.060 it's like a cleanse.

00:39:06.800 Amen.

00:39:09.420 Fox does control everybody who works there.

00:39:12.960 Trust me.

00:39:13.500 I know.

00:39:14.140 That's why it's so amazing to be in the independently,

00:39:17.760 right?

00:39:17.960 It's like,

00:39:18.700 you guys say that you can say whatever the hell you want.

00:39:21.960 The,

00:39:22.400 the,

00:39:22.740 the thing that's changed is that the news has become totally commoditized,

00:39:27.060 right?

00:39:27.520 You can basically get the same facts everywhere.

00:39:29.820 And I think what people have sniffed out is that it's people's opinions,

00:39:34.120 especially smart people who are consistent.

00:39:37.180 That's what matters.

00:39:38.280 You're one Tucker's one, 0.99

00:39:40.340 you know,

00:39:40.660 on the left,

00:39:41.660 uh,

00:39:42.040 Ezra Klein is one.

00:39:43.480 There's people on both sides.

00:39:44.560 But my point is that what people don't care about is if you,

00:39:47.820 for example,

00:39:49.160 you know,

00:39:49.420 wrote an article and the byline said the New York times,

00:39:51.920 you just wouldn't care as much as you used to.

00:39:54.160 And in five years,

00:39:55.400 they'll care even less.

00:39:56.440 And it's the same with Fox.

00:39:57.980 Now,

00:39:58.840 those people for a moment,

00:40:01.020 they had the right to have the business model that they did because,

00:40:04.760 you know,

00:40:04.940 let's take Fox as an example.

00:40:06.180 They literally spent billions of dollars to build the broadcast

00:40:09.620 infrastructure to get in front of people.

00:40:11.900 But that's been undone.

00:40:14.200 And so now I think the next 20 or 30 years will be about people who can be

00:40:18.460 articulate,

00:40:19.800 consistent,

00:40:20.820 interesting.

00:40:22.200 You know,

00:40:22.500 some people will want partisan,

00:40:23.920 some people will want independent,

00:40:25.520 but that sorting function is going on right now.

00:40:27.820 And I think that's where I,

00:40:29.000 the media,

00:40:30.180 I don't want to say that they lie,

00:40:31.540 but I think that they can be,

00:40:33.620 their insecurity around this one thing comes through in so many articles.

00:40:38.320 You see it in the Doge articles.

00:40:40.240 You see it in this article about the red seat.

00:40:42.500 You see it everywhere.

00:40:43.640 If you're paying attention for it,

00:40:45.380 which is what they're really expressing is we're not nearly as important as

00:40:48.940 we used to be.

00:40:49.980 And so they have to go to,

00:40:51.220 they have to go to more and more extremes because the relaying of the news

00:40:54.820 doesn't really add that much value.

00:40:56.980 You can go on X and get that in eight seconds.

00:40:58.880 And control Megan, 0.98

00:41:00.980 this is about control.

00:41:02.640 You know,

00:41:02.840 you and Tucker supremely talented.

00:41:05.540 They controlled you because they gave you these giant multi-year deals.

00:41:09.340 You guys were at the top of your game.

00:41:11.540 Eight figure deals is extraordinary.

00:41:13.280 You guys top ticked it.

00:41:14.380 As we say in the business,

00:41:15.220 you hit the peak and it's scary,

00:41:17.560 but to be talent and then start from zero again,

00:41:21.520 but you did it.

00:41:22.520 And now you control it.

00:41:23.580 And now Tucker controls it,

00:41:25.240 but you know,

00:41:25.860 you can see their top-down control ruins the editorial.

00:41:29.540 You can see it in that Dominion case that Fox had to settle.

00:41:32.300 It matters.

00:41:32.840 They start.

00:41:33.560 Yeah.

00:41:34.000 And they,

00:41:34.240 and they start messing with you and they,

00:41:37.060 they,

00:41:37.360 they try to steer you in one direction or the other.

00:41:39.940 It's even more.

00:41:40.860 The audience gets it.

00:41:41.760 The audience understands it now.

00:41:43.700 Yeah.

00:41:44.080 And it's more subtle than that.

00:41:45.500 You don't need a $750 million lawsuit to go against you.

00:41:49.460 Now what you have are things like the CBS clip of 60 minutes.

00:41:54.560 Yes.

00:41:55.220 All of that just subtly chips away at people's trust.

00:41:58.440 Right.

00:41:58.880 Now I used to watch 60 minutes religiously on Sundays.

00:42:02.140 When I was growing up as a kid,

00:42:03.400 I thought,

00:42:03.760 okay,

00:42:03.920 this is where I,

00:42:04.840 you know,

00:42:05.580 watch for an hour and I,

00:42:07.280 and I'm a little bit smarter for it.

00:42:09.760 And now when you see these kinds of things,

00:42:11.940 you think to yourself,

00:42:12.800 what is the point of even watching these clips?

00:42:14.740 And then when you see the clip being distributed,

00:42:16.820 you think to yourself,

00:42:17.640 well,

00:42:18.120 is this yet another moment where CBS cherry picks the editing of something to portray a message?

00:42:23.040 I don't want the cognitive load of having to deal with that and figure it out.

00:42:28.660 I got,

00:42:29.440 you know,

00:42:29.780 I have kids,

00:42:30.520 I have a business,

00:42:31.300 I have a family.

00:42:32.320 I am trying to live my life.

00:42:33.560 Just give it to me straight.

00:42:34.920 And if you're giving me an opinion,

00:42:36.060 I want to know upfront that it's your opinion.

00:42:37.920 But what I don't want is the manipulation.

00:42:40.720 It really is.

00:42:41.840 Over time,

00:42:42.160 you realize who you can trust and who you cannot.

00:42:44.180 And for,

00:42:44.380 you know,

00:42:44.520 for me,

00:42:44.920 it's like,

00:42:45.760 that's,

00:42:46.280 it's fine.

00:42:46.800 You know,

00:42:47.060 I'm happy for Chris.

00:42:48.200 I'm happy for Fox,

00:42:49.120 but it matters who controls this show.

00:42:52.640 And if some were suggesting like they have an ownership,

00:42:54.800 I,

00:42:55.080 I own 100% of the Megan Kelly show.

00:42:57.280 I don't have investors.

00:42:58.180 I have nobody.

00:42:58.860 I have me.

00:42:59.960 And,

00:43:00.440 and that's the other thing.

00:43:01.980 Like they're not wrong.

00:43:03.200 When I worked at Fox,

00:43:04.080 you couldn't say any,

00:43:05.460 if you said anything like to the press,

00:43:08.100 Irina Briganti,

00:43:09.100 that snake would be all over you. 1.00

00:43:11.100 They'd be dropping hip pieces on you to try to control you. 0.99

00:43:14.980 And I'm delighted to have nothing to do with this person.

00:43:18.580 She,

00:43:19.040 I don't know,

00:43:19.600 you know what,

00:43:20.180 I don't think Fox has any delusions that they would control me because they sell ads for me in this new context,

00:43:26.080 but it's delightful to be able to not worry about people like that,

00:43:30.420 you know,

00:43:30.700 and,

00:43:31.020 and you guys know,

00:43:31.700 maybe you don't know.

00:43:32.440 Cause I,

00:43:32.840 I know you had lean years.

00:43:34.080 We talked about Chamath worked at Burger King when he was a kid,

00:43:36.300 but you know,

00:43:37.740 after Fox and NBC,

00:43:39.740 both of those organizations tried to destroy me.

00:43:42.180 100% tried to destroy me.

00:43:44.000 And you have those nights in your bed where you're kind of like sad and your,

00:43:47.260 your career is blown up and you're like,

00:43:49.100 Jesus.

00:43:50.560 And bit by bit,

00:43:52.160 then you build it back.

00:43:53.580 And the last thing you want is for somebody to come in and be like,

00:43:55.880 Oh,

00:43:56.020 she sold out.

00:43:56.900 She sold out to one of them.

00:43:58.320 Like in the end,

00:43:59.180 she bent the knee and went back.

00:44:00.420 That's not at all what happened.

00:44:01.620 I had nothing to do with this.

00:44:02.920 It wasn't my decision.

00:44:04.400 And when I tweeted that out,

00:44:06.300 again,

00:44:06.600 not trying to antagonize Fox.

00:44:08.160 I see why they're smart to have made this move,

00:44:10.240 just setting the record straight.

00:44:11.940 But that's when I tweeted it out,

00:44:14.160 you guys won't be surprised to learn.

00:44:15.980 Everybody,

00:44:16.880 every one of the people who follows me on Twitter was like,

00:44:19.220 we got your back.

00:44:20.420 We get it.

00:44:21.140 We knew it.

00:44:21.840 We don't worry.

00:44:23.580 It was just,

00:44:24.240 it's just a brand new world.

00:44:25.800 Can I,

00:44:26.500 can I make a prediction?

00:44:27.840 Just three legs of the stool,

00:44:29.040 Megan.

00:44:29.880 You,

00:44:30.200 you have two of them and you got half of one.

00:44:32.520 You gotta make that last leg of the stool.

00:44:34.740 Very strong.

00:44:35.540 I agree with that.

00:44:36.600 Chamath and I,

00:44:37.600 we brainstormed and we built this infrastructure inside of all in so that we

00:44:41.740 never have to bend the knee.

00:44:43.420 And we have the FU money and the FU platform.

00:44:46.340 There's,

00:44:46.760 there's a picture.

00:44:48.120 I don't know if Alison,

00:44:48.820 you can find it,

00:44:49.400 but there's a picture of SpaceX's engines.

00:44:54.080 They're,

00:44:54.280 they're the Raptor engines and they're,

00:44:56.160 they're sitting side by each.

00:44:57.640 Okay.

00:44:58.020 Raptor one,

00:44:58.800 then Raptor version two,

00:45:00.080 then Raptor version three.

00:45:02.400 And I think what's happening in the creator economy is very akin to that picture.

00:45:07.260 Um,

00:45:08.260 which is that if you're going to build something real,

00:45:11.820 and I think the creator economy is real because mainstream media is decaying.

00:45:16.300 To build something real takes at least 15 years.

00:45:19.260 There's no shortcuts.

00:45:20.220 There's nothing you can do about it.

00:45:22.300 And what happens is the first version,

00:45:24.760 all it has to do is just kind of work and hang together.

00:45:27.980 And a lot of people will dunk on you.

00:45:31.260 And a lot of people think that you're still kind of,

00:45:33.780 you know,

00:45:34.260 wasting your time or you're working on a pet project or whatever,

00:45:37.260 but you're not.

00:45:38.440 Because the minute you get that version one working and you've gotten version one working,

00:45:43.220 Tucker has Ezra Kelly has kind of,

00:45:45.680 but he should really leave the New York times and do it on his own or Ezra Klein.

00:45:48.940 Sorry.

00:45:50.640 What you are then allowed to do is work on version two and version two is the first

00:45:56.040 version of it.

00:45:57.340 That's like a real thing that can stand alone.

00:46:00.500 And then four or five years later,

00:46:02.060 you get to this version three and that is just excellence.

00:46:05.060 And that's when everybody else goes out of business.

00:46:06.960 And I see this pattern in so many businesses,

00:46:11.100 it's going to happen in this creator economy.

00:46:13.460 So you,

00:46:14.600 Mr.

00:46:14.880 Beast,

00:46:15.840 us,

00:46:16.740 Tucker,

00:46:17.660 you know,

00:46:18.660 we're on version one.

00:46:20.260 It's very rough around the edges.

00:46:22.180 People are figuring it out.

00:46:23.240 We're all going to make mistakes,

00:46:24.680 but that version two,

00:46:26.900 is when there's going to be this meaningful downtick in the New York times,

00:46:30.100 in the Washington post,

00:46:31.840 in the wall street journal,

00:46:33.120 by the way,

00:46:33.500 like,

00:46:33.720 you know,

00:46:33.920 I said this,

00:46:34.660 I had probably 15 media subscriptions.

00:46:38.000 I'm down to one,

00:46:39.160 which is the wall street journal.

00:46:40.440 And I'm looking for every reason to just dump it.

00:46:44.000 And for me,

00:46:44.880 it's just,

00:46:45.220 it's the anxiety of there's probably some financial news that I will miss.

00:46:49.700 And I won't really get on X or with the,

00:46:52.120 with the other places,

00:46:53.100 but the minute I feel like I can,

00:46:54.260 and I will now version two has to solve a much bigger problem though,

00:46:58.180 which is in,

00:46:58.720 once we're all out there making opinions,

00:47:00.860 the other problem that it will highlight is that the algorithms are brittle.

00:47:06.440 And we're going to have to figure out,

00:47:10.600 well,

00:47:10.840 how is our information getting in front of the right people?

00:47:13.800 And how do we make sure that it's not just a bunch of million echo chambers so that we,

00:47:18.780 we become fragmented?

00:47:19.920 And that's not solved because right now we go into a centralized algorithm,

00:47:24.240 right?

00:47:24.380 Everything goes into one version inside of meta or inside of X or inside of Google.

00:47:30.800 And we're going to,

00:47:31.240 and Jason's talked about this before,

00:47:32.540 which is this idea,

00:47:33.340 like there should be a marketplace and a competition for these algorithms as well.

00:47:38.500 That's the next part of fixing the media cycle,

00:47:41.220 you know,

00:47:41.440 because some people may literally want to just stay in a partisan bubble,

00:47:45.080 but some people want the media diet to be balanced.

00:47:48.340 How do you get that today?

00:47:49.380 It's impossible.

00:47:50.480 It's funny.

00:47:51.040 Cause I was speaking with a very smart person about YouTube algorithms and this person doesn't

00:47:56.020 work for YouTube,

00:47:56.500 but I was saying,

00:47:58.300 well,

00:47:58.460 how do you,

00:47:59.160 you know,

00:47:59.340 how can the Megyn Kelly show go from three and a half million subscribers to 20 million

00:48:03.360 subscribers?

00:48:04.360 And it later became clear to me that this person was of the left.

00:48:07.960 And of course his answer was,

00:48:09.480 you have to be more moderate,

00:48:12.400 put on more Democrats,

00:48:13.880 you know,

00:48:14.920 like reach across the aisle.

00:48:16.900 I'm like,

00:48:17.820 okay,

00:48:18.240 how can we do it without me changing my business model?

00:48:21.060 Because I must be honest.

00:48:23.060 And I don't think the secret to my next level success is to populate the show with a bunch

00:48:28.980 of leftists.

00:48:30.420 But I do,

00:48:31.040 I do have a lot of Democrats on the show,

00:48:32.700 but the,

00:48:33.320 the answer is not to change anything about my content.

00:48:35.860 It's to make sure the algorithm picks up the content.

00:48:38.860 Exactly.

00:48:39.600 Yeah.

00:48:39.820 The most important thing in media.

00:48:42.220 And I told this to my,

00:48:43.700 to my squad on all in when I was,

00:48:46.240 you know,

00:48:46.500 in the early days,

00:48:47.380 it was just hard to get these guys to show up every week.

00:48:49.940 And I just sat them all down.

00:48:51.380 I said,

00:48:51.600 guys,

00:48:52.040 the number one way to be successful in media is to show up every day.

00:48:57.100 Consistency.

00:48:57.900 And that's what you have.

00:48:59.580 You are a juggernaut.

00:49:01.580 You show up every day.

00:49:02.980 You're consistent.

00:49:03.840 And I,

00:49:04.480 I subscribe to you.

00:49:05.580 Congratulations on breaking 3 million.

00:49:06.980 That's extraordinary in a short period of time.

00:49:10.660 Consistency is the key.

00:49:12.220 You were doing campaign work and comms work for Trump.

00:49:18.000 But what about in the interim?

00:49:20.220 Like what'd you do after Trump 1.0 until then?

00:49:22.880 Yes.

00:49:23.320 So Trump 1.0 started as an intern and then was offered a full-time job,

00:49:28.200 which led me to working in the press office under Kayleigh McEnany, 0.97

00:49:31.180 who was my old boss and remains a very good friend to this day.

00:49:34.620 And then went back home and actually ran for office.

00:49:38.360 I briefly worked for Congresswoman Elise Stefanik,

00:49:40.400 who will soon be our United Nations ambassador.

00:49:44.120 And she has a, 0.78

00:49:45.560 you know,

00:49:45.840 a pack that supports and encourages women to run for office.

00:49:49.280 And I had a conversation with her about being in New Hampshire and the

00:49:53.000 district that I was from.

00:49:54.220 And,

00:49:54.440 you know,

00:49:55.060 really got sparked my interest to run myself.

00:49:58.000 So I went back home and kicked off a congressional campaign,

00:50:02.120 which was an amazing experience.

00:50:04.700 I was in a very competitive primary.

00:50:06.820 A lot of money from the DC establishment went into the race against me.

00:50:10.860 There was a lot of negative ads.

00:50:12.260 I won the primary ultimately lost the general election.

00:50:16.240 New Hampshire is a tough state to win at the federal level,

00:50:18.980 unfortunately for a few reasons,

00:50:21.340 but it worked out.

00:50:22.680 Did that thicken your skin right up though?

00:50:24.280 Totally.

00:50:24.800 Oh my gosh.

00:50:25.280 There's a reason for all these steps in the journey.

00:50:27.820 I have so much respect for anyone who puts their name on a ballot because

00:50:31.320 nothing is off limits.

00:50:33.660 They will go after you and your family and everything is on the line when you

00:50:37.980 decide to be a public servant and run.

00:50:40.260 And but I don't have no regrets.

00:50:42.820 I met amazing people and it taught me so many skills in life lessons.

00:50:47.800 And it was a wonderful experience.

00:50:49.500 You're a nicer person than I am.

00:50:50.680 I definitely do not have respect for anybody who puts their name on a ballot.

00:50:53.320 I can think of several people who never should have done that.

00:50:55.100 That's true.

00:50:55.160 Well, there's some people.

00:50:55.300 Yeah.

00:50:56.380 But you're generous.

00:50:58.240 All right.

00:50:58.460 So at the same time,

00:51:00.240 you're building a family life.

00:51:01.460 You fall in love.

00:51:02.380 I didn't know until today that you married a man who's a lot older.

00:51:05.340 Yes.

00:51:05.620 He's 59.

00:51:06.260 You're 27.

00:51:06.960 Yes.

00:51:07.360 How did that happen?

00:51:08.140 I met my husband during my congressional campaign.

00:51:11.480 A mutual friend of ours hosted an event at a restaurant that he owns up in New Hampshire

00:51:16.460 and invited my husband.

00:51:17.840 And I was speaking.

00:51:18.880 And, you know, we met.

00:51:20.240 We were acquainted as friends.

00:51:21.580 And then we fell in love, as you said.

00:51:23.580 Was there any like,

00:51:24.480 I can't date him.

00:51:25.480 He's 59.

00:51:26.020 Yes, of course.

00:51:27.000 I mean, it's very atypical love story, but he's incredible.

00:51:31.400 He is my greatest supporter.

00:51:33.160 He's my best friend.

00:51:34.420 He's my rock.

00:51:35.480 And, you know, he's built a very successful business himself.

00:51:38.960 So now he's fully supportive of me building, you know, my success in my career.

00:51:44.740 And he's the father of my child, of course.

00:51:47.480 And he's the best dad I could ever ask for.

00:51:50.420 And so supportive, especially during this very chaotic period of life.

00:51:55.460 Poor man.

00:51:55.740 He had no idea what was going to happen.

00:51:57.400 I say I walked into your life and it's been a circus ever since.

00:52:00.360 But God bless him because he's fully on board.

00:52:02.540 So he's an Italiano.

00:52:03.840 Yes, he is.

00:52:04.700 And he's a lover.

00:52:05.540 Yes.

00:52:06.040 He's a romantic man.

00:52:07.680 Yes.

00:52:07.840 So there's your babe who was born in July.

00:52:10.440 That's your little boy.

00:52:11.360 My little boy.

00:52:12.100 What's his name?

00:52:12.880 Nicholas.

00:52:13.440 And we call him Nico.

00:52:14.600 Aw.

00:52:15.100 Yeah.

00:52:16.040 Now, we talked about this a little backstage at the Super Bowl.

00:52:19.520 But how are you handling, I mean, true new motherhood is not even a year.

00:52:24.900 And this crazy job.

00:52:26.940 Yeah, it's a lot.

00:52:29.060 No denying it.

00:52:31.360 He's seven months.

00:52:33.100 I had him in the midst of the presidential campaign three days before the president almost

00:52:39.880 lost his life in Butler, Pennsylvania.

00:52:42.100 My son was born on the 10th.

00:52:43.640 The president was shot on the 13th.

00:52:45.180 It was my first day home with him from the hospital.

00:52:49.580 And it kind of threw me right back to work much sooner than I would have probably expected

00:52:55.620 or hoped.

00:52:56.940 But becoming a mother in the midst of this very chaotic political world that I work in

00:53:02.300 has been the best thing I could have ever imagined because it gives you great perspective

00:53:08.080 and it humbles you.

00:53:09.540 And my son doesn't give a crap about my job.

00:53:13.180 He just wants me to come home and snuggle and play toys and be present.

00:53:17.400 So it's, you know, a difficult balance to prioritize being good at my job and being good as a mother.

00:53:25.120 But I just try to prioritize my time and carve out that time when I can.

00:53:29.320 And I'm so grateful to have the support system I do.

00:53:32.200 A great husband who can be very present with our child.

00:53:34.920 And then, of course, a wonderful mother and father and friends who chip in when I need them.

00:53:40.000 Your parents must be so proud of you.

00:53:41.460 I think so.

00:53:42.200 I hope so.

00:53:42.740 A grandchild and access to President Trump in the same year.

00:54:16.000 She was, in her elderly years, not that able to, like, get out and around.

00:54:20.660 So if I had an important court argument that was on tape, I would show it to her.

00:54:25.600 And she would get so mad at the judges. 0.89

00:54:27.980 She didn't think that they should be allowed to ask me any questions.

00:54:30.760 She didn't like opposing counsel.

00:54:32.080 Why is he saying that about you?

00:54:33.720 They don't totally get it.

00:54:35.220 It's a motherly bias that we have for our babies. 1.00

00:54:38.620 All right.

00:54:38.860 So you are balancing with the baby.

00:54:41.200 Can I just ask you one other question on that?

00:54:42.700 Because we talk about it all the time, especially on the right.

00:54:45.700 And I, too, am a working mom and always have been.

00:54:48.960 I've, you know, been a professional woman since I graduated from college or law school.

00:54:53.480 But now there's, I think, a good thing,

00:54:55.720 which is, like, the restoration of valuing so-called traditional, you know, moms. 0.71

00:55:00.220 And that's great.

00:55:01.080 The women who take care of their kids full-time. 1.00

00:55:03.680 Most of my best friends are doing exactly that.

00:55:05.800 But it seems like in the right, there's, like, some, a bit of a shift toward, like,

00:55:09.780 you can't do what Caroline's doing.

00:55:11.700 That's actually, like, an unsafe or a dangerous or a bad choice for families, for children,

00:55:17.340 which I reject wholesale, but you hear it more and more.

00:55:20.520 Yeah.

00:55:20.940 Do you hear that?

00:55:21.800 And what do you think of it?

00:55:22.380 I would reject that it's a bad choice.

00:55:24.820 Is it a tough choice?

00:55:26.360 Absolutely.

00:55:27.100 You know, as a mother, you want to be with your child 24-7.

00:55:31.040 You have that maternal instinct.

00:55:33.300 Like 27.

00:55:34.400 Not all the time.

00:55:35.600 Well, right now, yes, because he's seven months and just squishy and lovable.

00:55:38.340 But I'm sure that will change.

00:55:40.120 No, but, you know, you do have that maternal instinct.

00:55:43.280 But also recognizing, like, I'm doing this work for my son and for all children to make

00:55:49.380 this country better.

00:55:50.500 And it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

00:55:53.320 It's also very, it's temporary, right?

00:55:55.560 In four years, my son will be four years old and the president will no longer be at the

00:56:00.300 White House.

00:56:00.840 And then I'll move on and do something else.

00:56:03.200 But, you know, this chaos of 24-7 work is a temporary matter.

00:56:09.240 And that's what at least I tell myself to get through these very long and hard days.

00:56:12.780 But I would reject that you can't be a good mom and be good at your job.

00:56:16.800 I think you can do both.

00:56:19.160 Certainly, it's not for everybody.

00:56:21.520 And it takes a lot of work and will and faith and prayer.

00:56:27.760 And it's hard, but it can be done.

00:56:30.880 And, you know, I would reject that.

00:56:33.820 We can't chase our great conservative moms out of the workforce. 1.00

00:56:38.060 Right.

00:56:38.340 Then we get rid of you.

00:56:39.560 We get rid of Katie Britt.

00:56:40.660 We get rid of Usha Vance.

00:56:42.160 Like, this is not the way Amy Coney Barrett is not of the Supreme.

00:56:45.180 Like, that's not, that should not be the place the conservative movement lands.

00:56:49.060 I agree.

00:56:50.120 All right.

00:56:50.640 So now you start as White House press secretary.

00:56:52.880 And were you thrilled to get that invitation?

00:56:54.940 Of course.

00:56:55.740 Yes.

00:56:56.060 I was very humbled and honored.

00:56:57.880 And I was campaigning, you know, with the president over the past year through the court

00:57:03.400 trials.

00:57:03.900 We sat in that courthouse in Manhattan with the Bragg trial.

00:57:08.180 So many rallies.

00:57:09.160 And we worked so damn hard to win that election.

00:57:11.820 You must have really wrestled with how you were going to meet the high bar set by Corrine

00:57:15.220 Jean-Pierre, was that, sorry, sorry, was that out loud?

00:57:20.580 No, she was terrible.

00:57:21.500 Yeah.

00:57:22.020 I mean, come on.

00:57:22.640 Yeah.

00:57:23.080 So how has your approach different, would you say?

00:57:25.540 Um, I think it's vastly different.

00:57:28.060 And if you ask people, even in the legacy media, even the Trump haters, they will tell you the

00:57:34.300 approach has been much different, not just for me, but the entire White House.

00:57:37.620 Oh, absolutely.

00:57:38.400 They come in my office every day and they'll admit that off the record.

00:57:40.920 Maybe not on the record, but they will say they appreciate the access and the transparency

00:57:46.220 and the preparation that goes into my briefings and everybody on our team, by the way, who

00:57:52.720 goes out to the cameras and speaks.

00:57:54.600 We have great policy experts who are great spokespeople for the president and, um, they

00:58:00.440 appreciate the information that they're being given.

00:58:03.580 They're also exhausted, by the way, because we are doing so much.

00:58:06.840 And not even in a, like a wussy, sad little way, like they must be exhausted.

00:58:09.940 It's just, it's nonstop.

00:58:10.920 It's insane.

00:58:11.700 Yes.

00:58:14.160 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

00:58:16.260 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 29, 2025

Megyn Moments： Bill Maher, VP Vance, Charlamagne, All-In Podcast, Shawn Ryan, Karoline Leavitt

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