The Megyn Kelly Show - Menendez Brothers Could Be RELEASED, with Mark Geragos, Plus Megyn on Early Voting and How to Unwind ｜ Ep. 927

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00:00:31.160 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:42.600 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:44.380 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and today's weekend special episode.

00:00:47.960 This past week, Los Angeles District Attorney George Gascon announced

00:00:51.800 he is seeking the resentencing of Eric and Lyle Menendez, whoa,

00:00:58.040 who killed their parents in their Beverly Hills mansion in the 1990s.

00:01:02.080 Gascon filed paperwork on Friday to remove life without the possibility of parole,

00:01:07.480 that sentence, which if his move is approved,

00:01:12.000 the brothers could walk free in a matter of weeks.

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00:01:56.540 Joining me now, the Menendez brothers' attorney, and that's Mark Garagos.

00:02:01.300 He joins me now.

00:02:01.960 Mark, great to see you.

00:02:03.420 Whoa, your reaction to this?

00:02:05.720 Good to see you.

00:02:06.720 I have a couple of bones to pick first.

00:02:09.020 First of all, I've been doing your kind of, what do you call it, Kelly's Court?

00:02:14.360 Yeah.

00:02:15.740 How long have I been doing this?

00:02:17.520 Four years.

00:02:18.380 That's completely, okay.

00:02:20.560 And it's been completely put aside while you're in election,

00:02:24.620 deep in the elections, which I understand.

00:02:27.060 However, I did, somebody sent me,

00:02:30.240 did you do a segment with Mark and Arthur about this case?

00:02:35.860 I think it was one of the many agenda items we did on a lengthy court the other day.

00:02:41.480 Yeah, we did.

00:02:42.740 But we always seek you first if we're going to talk, Menendez.

00:02:45.400 You're just a busy man.

00:02:46.420 Well, because I know, but I do, there were a couple of misstatements,

00:02:51.840 not so much by Mark, but by Arthur, which I was, if I see him in New York this weekend,

00:02:56.140 I'm going to have a couple of bones to pick with you. 0.99

00:02:59.120 Oh, it's getting good already.

00:02:59.980 I'm here to educate.

00:03:01.240 Okay, good.

00:03:01.800 Well, set the record straight.

00:03:03.080 So tell us, first of all, your reaction, because this is huge.

00:03:09.160 Yeah, I mean, look, we filed, you'll, I'll get into the weeds for a second.

00:03:13.520 We filed a habeas based on Roy Rosello, which is the Menudo member who has said

00:03:21.220 and declared under penalty of perjury that Jose had raped him as well, by the way, in their house.

00:03:28.380 Apparently, Jose felt that was a safe space.

00:03:31.500 And also on a letter that was found by Robert Rand, I believe, in Neri, who, back in 2015, that ABC had,

00:03:42.580 which in that letter, which was, we've been able to date to eight months prior to the killings,

00:03:47.940 Eric was complaining to his cousin, Andy, about the abuse.

00:03:53.520 And that corroborates Andy's testimony, who unfortunately died in 2001.

00:03:59.780 So that letter was not found until, in his effect, some 15 years later.

00:04:04.440 Okay, the letter is important because it's showing long before the actual murders,

00:04:08.840 Eric was telling somebody that his dad was abusing him.

00:04:11.840 And it also is helpful because they didn't tell their psychiatrist that they were being abused.

00:04:17.620 But here's Eric telling a friend.

00:04:20.380 And that's one of the things, if I remember correctly, he was cross-examined on, like,

00:04:23.920 oh, you know, you told Dr. Ozeal a lot of things, but you didn't tell him you got abused.

00:04:29.160 And the response was something like, do you know anything about abused children?

00:04:33.160 Like, it's really not something they run around shouting, even under these weird, tragic circumstances.

00:04:38.680 Well, you know, you'll appreciate this.

00:04:43.400 One of the reasons I was fascinated with this case, and have been for many years,

00:04:47.600 in 94, I tried a case with a woman named Yoshi Kale, and I tried it in the L.A. Superior Court.

00:04:54.400 We were able to use the battered woman's defense in her case. 0.65

00:04:58.160 She was charged with murder.

00:04:59.760 And in that case, she ended up getting a voluntary manslaughter, ultimately,

00:05:04.240 and then sentenced to probation.

00:05:06.180 On the record, in the transcript, in the Menendez case, and I remember it in real time,

00:05:12.780 the judge at the then-DA's urging said, well, I understand that battered woman's defense

00:05:19.360 is now something that's available in California.

00:05:22.240 However, it does not apply to children, and children are not able to take advantage of this

00:05:28.480 idea of negating the malice for murder because of abuse.

00:05:32.980 Can you imagine where we were in the 90s here to now?

00:05:37.200 And even, they played this, recently, 2020 did a retrospective on the case,

00:05:41.300 given everything that's going on with it.

00:05:42.700 It was very good.

00:05:43.580 They had a lot of Barbara Walters' interview with the boys.

00:05:45.980 I remember watching that when I was, you know, young, and this was actually happening.

00:05:49.980 And I had forgotten about the prosecutor saying this incendiary thing in Soundbite 48.

00:05:55.920 Listen.

00:05:58.240 People said, first of all, that men cannot be raped, 0.81

00:06:01.500 because they lack the necessary equipment to actually be raped. 0.88

00:06:06.820 The prosecutor telling the judge men cannot be raped.

00:06:11.700 I mean, it does give you a flavor for how backward we still were when this case was tried.

00:06:17.380 What people, I think, you know, because I saw that same thing, and I've watched it.

00:06:24.740 That was Pam Bozanich.

00:06:26.260 And Pam was the prosecutor in the first case. 0.52

00:06:29.480 And, boy, she's gotten quite a bit of hate directed in her direction.

00:06:35.300 In fact, to the point where there's an interview that I saw somewhere where she was saying,

00:06:38.820 all you TikTokers, I'm armed. 1.00

00:06:41.220 I've got guns all over my house.

00:06:43.120 Oh, boy, Pam. 0.99

00:06:44.260 Don't hurt Pam.

00:06:45.040 Pam did have a couple of people who had killed their parents on her hands.

00:06:51.260 It's just the whole question, really almost from the get-go, was what is the penalty?

00:06:56.880 Which crime is it?

00:06:58.100 Is it manslaughter?

00:06:58.900 Is it murder?

00:06:59.440 Is it something that they should be acquitted on, given—I don't even know if acquittal was ever a possibility, Mark.

00:07:04.260 But soon into it, we knew they had done it.

00:07:08.580 Yeah, acquittal was not really what they are arguing at the time.

00:07:12.260 In the first trial, Leslie Abramson, who I remember her well.

00:07:17.340 I haven't seen her for years, so she's retired.

00:07:19.280 But Leslie was kind of the go-to criminal defense lawyer in Los Angeles at that point.

00:07:25.520 She was arguing forcefully and put on almost 50 witnesses as to the abuse.

00:07:31.780 There were two juries in that first trial, one for Lyle, one for Eric.

00:07:37.700 Both juries came back hung, but not between murder and acquittal, between murder and manslaughter.

00:07:44.100 It was negating the malice.

00:07:46.260 It was a homicide.

00:07:47.760 They had admitted doing it.

00:07:49.240 Both of them testified.

00:07:50.400 Both defendants testified in the first trial.

00:07:52.300 And the jurors, when they were presented with the evidence and the relatives and all of the factors with the experts, fully half of them said, this is not a murder case.

00:08:04.400 That literally was snatched from them in trial number two.

00:08:12.500 Trial number two, one jury, same judge.

00:08:15.220 But you know what had happened in the interim?

00:08:17.980 O.J. was acquitted eight days before evidence started in trial number two.

00:08:24.560 Ironically, the DA at the time was in a fight for his life and knew that he had to pull out all the stops.

00:08:31.680 Pam Bozanich was not the prosecutor who tried case number two.

00:08:37.680 David Kahn was, who's now dead.

00:08:39.500 And David forcefully and effectively argued for Judge Weisberg, same judge as trial number one, to change the number of his rulings and not let them present the abuse, the fulsome abuse defense.

00:08:53.720 And that's why they were convicted.

00:08:55.340 And one of the reasons, if I remember, is because they had never raised allegations of abuse.

00:08:59.420 Like there was no way of proving it.

00:09:01.200 There wasn't like.

00:09:02.120 But, you know, now we know that these cases have been discussed more in the public eye over the past 30 years.

00:09:07.560 Because there's not usually some evidence of it with little boys.

00:09:13.660 I mean, there wouldn't be.

00:09:14.780 It's like, it's a he said, he said.

00:09:18.640 And unfortunately for Lyle and Eric, their side of the story was being brought up under the worst possible circumstances.

00:09:25.380 Where they did need to get out of a very serious, you know, possible death sentence, life sentence.

00:09:32.080 So they were not given the benefit of the doubt.

00:09:34.320 But I do think that Menudo testimony is everything, Mark.

00:09:38.880 I mean, it caused me.

00:09:39.800 And you know me.

00:09:40.460 I'm much more prosecution oriented.

00:09:42.360 I do think your client, Scott Peterson, is guilty.

00:09:45.240 But the Menendez brothers are a different story.

00:09:48.520 I affectionately call you my little pro-ho. 0.99

00:09:51.420 So, you know, as a prosecutor.

00:09:55.080 I wear it with a bad honor.

00:09:56.360 Speaking of which, for those who don't know, I've known you since you were a cub reporter.

00:10:01.540 Yes.

00:10:02.000 Scott Peterson.

00:10:02.600 That's right.

00:10:03.340 It's fine.

00:10:04.560 So, but on this one, I do see, like, the whole question was, was Jose Menendez an abuser or wasn't he? 0.96

00:10:12.000 Because if he was unleashing the horrific sexual and other abuse on these boys that they claimed, I think any feeling person wouldn't have said, oh, yeah, great, you killed them.

00:10:19.680 But would have understood there are mitigating circumstances here, potentially, that the jury should at least hear about, which they didn't in the second trial. 0.88

00:10:27.220 And when the guy from Menudo came out and said in that documentary on Menudo on the record, and then, as you point out, under oath for you in trying to seek a new trial, he said this same guy who was a music executive, Jose Menendez, he raped me.

00:10:40.200 And, like, did you ever get to talk to him, Mark, about why he didn't come forward, you know, during the trial?

00:10:47.200 Was he even around during the trial?

00:10:48.900 Is that why you say?

00:10:49.740 Well, there's, part of the problem is, you know, you hit on a couple of great points there, as you always do, but with boys, it is not as easy to determine these kinds of things.

00:11:02.940 With little girls, you can.

00:11:04.900 I mean, there are ways for the examiner to do forensic examinations that are at least consistent with abuse, and you can find, there are findings and things like that.

00:11:16.500 That is not the same with boys, number one.

00:11:18.900 That's just from a medical and a scientific perspective.

00:11:22.060 From a cultural perspective, you know, 30 years ago, people were not willing to accept this.

00:11:29.080 This was just a bridge too far for people to say, yes, I can see that.

00:11:34.240 I can understand that.

00:11:35.860 And they didn't understand, I don't think.

00:11:38.720 And, frankly, I think one of the things that has worked to the advantage from a legal standpoint,

00:11:44.900 one of the only things that I will take issue with Leslie Abramson on, Leslie has said, you know, no amount of petitions,

00:11:52.300 no amount of kind of groundswell of the younger generation is going to help.

00:11:57.920 Now, I take a little issue with that.

00:11:59.800 I think that the fact that people reexamine this well before the Ryan Murphy series, well before actually the habeas,

00:12:10.500 that was kind of brought to my attention, is that people did not understand,

00:12:14.980 that particular generation did not understand that these things can and do happen.

00:12:20.540 And that, I think, is important in terms of the evolution of the culture.

00:12:27.100 And, as I mentioned before, the law is always trailing behind where the culture is in terms of kind of our evolved understanding of abuse.

00:12:35.940 Eric and Lyle Menendez were living in California when they killed both their parents,

00:12:41.580 Jose and Kitty Menendez, in the late 1980s.

00:12:44.640 They were brothers separated by just three years, Lyle the older, Eric the younger.

00:12:49.360 And while initially they tried to say it might have been a mob hit, we don't know who did it,

00:12:54.120 it quickly became clear that the boys had done it themselves and had, with shotguns,

00:12:59.480 brutally murdered their own parents sitting in their TV room one night,

00:13:03.580 that it had been planned out, that they had purchased the guns a couple days in advance with a friend's ID,

00:13:09.080 and that they had confessed to their psychiatrist, Dr. Ozeal.

00:13:14.760 And then he revealed the tapes.

00:13:17.600 He had some lover, a girlfriend who went to the cops.

00:13:20.720 She had heard the tape.

00:13:21.560 Like, this woman was a mess, and this doctor was a mess. 1.00

00:13:24.580 But nonetheless, they got caught.

00:13:26.720 And the latest docu-series on it seems like it's full of bull, Mark.

00:13:32.560 I mean, it just, I'm so, docu-series is not a thing.

00:13:35.620 Like, that's, stop using the word docu.

00:13:38.040 Like, docu should be followed by mentory, and then we know what it is.

00:13:42.260 But I think they did this to Linda Fairstein with the Central Park Five story,

00:13:46.740 and I think they did this to the Menendez case on this.

00:13:49.520 I think they did it to Michael Jackson, too, where they call it a docu-series.

00:13:52.640 It's really just drama through the eyes of someone like Ryan Murphy.

00:13:56.140 What do you think?

00:13:58.160 I couldn't agree more.

00:13:59.680 In fact, you hit on what I have been saying.

00:14:03.280 People have been saying, well, did the Ryan Murphy series help this?

00:14:07.880 I said, unintended consequences.

00:14:10.240 It was such a caricature of what it was that there was a public backlash.

00:14:18.440 That backlash was helpful.

00:14:20.340 I don't think that the so-called docu-series, as you call it,

00:14:24.740 and that's once again where I invoke Leslie Abramson,

00:14:28.280 who I think somebody caught at a gas station or someplace and said that I don't watch that piece POS at all. 0.90

00:14:36.080 And I tend to agree with her. 0.96

00:14:37.820 It was ridiculous. 0.84

00:14:39.060 But it has at least bubbled up, if you will, to the consciousness of what was happening.

00:14:47.160 And I think we filed this habeas 18 months ago.

00:14:51.280 We sent over a draft petition invitation to resentence to the DA about six months ago,

00:14:59.780 because I wanted the DA to take a look at what I was going to present,

00:15:04.080 take a look at what's called the C file, which is the Department of Corrections file.

00:15:10.320 And I wanted them to join or initiate the resentencing.

00:15:15.500 That is what the DA did yesterday.

00:15:17.820 Okay, so let me play his soundbite, and then you tell me what's really going on here with George Gascon, Zot 40.

00:15:24.440 A very careful review of all the arguments that were made for people on both sides of this equation.

00:15:34.660 I came to a place where I believe that under the law, resentencing is appropriate.

00:15:40.980 And I am going to recommend that to a court tomorrow.

00:15:44.600 I believe that they have paid their debt to society.

00:15:49.600 And the system provides a vehicle for their case to be reviewed by a parole board.

00:15:59.920 And if the parole concurs with my assessment, and it will be their decision,

00:16:07.440 they will be released accordingly.

00:16:08.920 Certainly, we're very sure not only that the brothers have rehabilitated

00:16:14.820 and that they will be safe to be reintegrated in our society,

00:16:18.440 but that they have paid their dues.

00:16:22.980 All right.

00:16:23.540 So what's really happening?

00:16:24.840 What's going to happen?

00:16:25.600 Let's just start there.

00:16:26.500 What is going to happen now?

00:16:27.680 Yeah, because there's been a lot of, I don't want to say misreporting, but part of why I had

00:16:35.420 invited the district attorney to initiate the resentencing months and months ago is there

00:16:42.320 are some legal quirks, one of which is if the DA initiates it, which they have now done after

00:16:49.120 that press conference, they went over and they filed the request for resentencing.

00:16:55.180 Now that triggers the ability for us to request a hearing with the judge, which we will do in short

00:17:01.840 order.

00:17:02.720 That judge now has the ability to resentence them.

00:17:06.380 And the judge does not, is not bound by the DA recommendation.

00:17:12.040 So the judge has the ability to recall the sentence and start afresh.

00:17:17.200 They are in a legal zone where the judge can do, and I believe should do, and we will urge

00:17:23.900 him to recall the murder, sentence them to a manslaughter and release them immediately.

00:17:29.340 And could it be, Mark, that you will go to that hearing and then they will walk out free

00:17:32.620 men?

00:17:34.740 It could be, yes.

00:17:36.000 And I've said from the get-go, I wanted them over here for Thanksgiving.

00:17:41.180 I'd bring them over for Thanksgiving.

00:17:42.580 I mean, that's my goal.

00:17:44.120 So if I get the hearing or we get the hearing set in front of Judge Ryan within a short period

00:17:51.420 of time, the one thing that is uncontested and unrebutted, they have, I referred to before

00:17:58.960 the C file.

00:17:59.920 The C file is 35 years, 34 years of, maybe closer to 30, of their history in the prison

00:18:07.840 system.

00:18:08.340 They, then the resentencing deputies said yesterday, and I think the DA conceded this and actually

00:18:16.100 said it, they have some of the most impressive work in prison.

00:18:20.580 And it's even more impressive when you consider the fact that for the last almost 20 years,

00:18:26.940 they had absolutely no hope of ever getting out.

00:18:29.820 They took the position to mentor others.

00:18:32.620 We're going to help create this green space environment down there at the prison.

00:18:36.860 It's just, it's beyond impressive.

00:18:39.180 So it seems like most of the family members, you know, who are in a tricky spot, obviously,

00:18:45.060 given the nature of this crime, are in support of the boys being released, the men being released

00:18:51.260 now, they're men.

00:18:51.900 But I did see an attorney for Kitty Menendez's brother on CNN this morning, and she was saying

00:19:00.060 that Kitty Menendez's brother has objections to this.

00:19:03.500 Here it is in SOT 41.

00:19:05.880 Dr. Anderson doesn't believe that those allegations actually, that he believes they're allegations,

00:19:11.560 that it didn't actually occur.

00:19:13.300 And based on what he saw during the trial, he thinks that essentially that was made of

00:19:19.040 evidence by the Menendez brothers' attorney.

00:19:22.620 There is this letter that has emerged as a part of the renewed scrutiny on this case

00:19:28.080 that indicates that there might have been some abuse.

00:19:31.160 Does that potentially become a game changer in all of this if it can be further established?

00:19:36.400 Well, I suppose it might, but that's also, it's so theoretical, right?

00:19:40.600 And the problem with this letter is that we don't exactly know when it was written.

00:19:45.360 It may have been written by one of the brothers, but we don't know when it was written.

00:19:48.740 The problem with Mr. Gascon is that he's had this case for 17 months, and it's only 11

00:19:53.500 days before the election, where he's trailing by 30 points, and he knows he's going to lose,

00:19:58.800 so he can get free publicity by holding press conferences.

00:20:02.520 And we certainly hope that that's not what his motivation was.

00:20:07.160 Interesting point there at the end, Mark.

00:20:08.600 Yeah, I've known Kathy Cady for 30 years.

00:20:12.940 The one thing that if the CNN person was going to do a fair interview, might have asked her

00:20:19.580 is, by the way, are you listed on the opponent for George Gascon's website as endorsing him,

00:20:26.660 talking about political?

00:20:28.020 And out of the 250,000 lawyers in California, how is it that they found one of the 20 lawyers

00:20:35.000 who's an ex-disgruntled deputy DA who, as the lawyer, by the way, why didn't your client,

00:20:41.580 Milton Anderson, why did he turn down the invitation to go talk to the DA's office?

00:20:46.340 And by the way, why does your older sister, Joan, why did she say that you, in fact, your

00:20:54.040 client, Kathy Cady, Milton, is an abuser?

00:20:57.260 And why is it that 24 of all of the other family members have all uniformly come out in

00:21:04.360 support?

00:21:05.040 And I was a witness, and I hate to peddle in this, but I sat in the meeting with the 20-some

00:21:14.580 odd family members who met with the DA's office, not yesterday, but well before, and the DA could

00:21:23.400 not get them to stop talking about the abuse that Milton, her, Kathy Cady's client, had heaped on

00:21:32.900 other family members.

00:21:34.200 It's an awful situation, but not something that you would not expect, because generally in abusive

00:21:42.720 families, there is this kind of generational repeating of abuse.

00:21:48.820 And unfortunately, Milton, based on what the family members have told me, told the DA and

00:21:55.300 everybody else, is somebody who's an abuser.

00:21:58.680 Oh, boy.

00:21:59.260 All right, well, Milton's not here to defend himself, so I'll assume that he denies this charge.

00:22:03.920 Which is why I said, I don't know anything about it other than what I have heard from the family

00:22:08.820 members.

00:22:09.220 The family members are uniformly behind the brothers, with the exception of this one, you

00:22:16.100 know, I hate to say crazy Uncle Milton, but with the exception of the one family member who

00:22:22.540 just happens to find a lawyer who just happens to be endorsing Gascon.

00:22:28.520 It's very interesting.

00:22:29.140 And by the way, if Gascon, as she says, knows he's going to lose, then why does he want the

00:22:37.900 publicity of doing this?

00:22:39.400 Why wouldn't he wait until after he loses?

00:22:41.660 To change the trajectory of the race or, I mean, who knows? 0.97

00:22:45.520 I don't think much of Gascon, but it doesn't surprise me that he might be looking for publicity.

00:22:49.920 It's possible.

00:22:50.720 Doesn't mean it's the wrong result.

00:22:51.960 But, you know, in his defense, in his defense, what he mentioned yesterday, and we've seen

00:22:57.980 it, and on the criminal defense side, you know, if you do the kind of work that criminal

00:23:02.780 defense lawyers do, you have to believe, in order to get up in the morning, that people

00:23:07.660 have an ability to change or redeem themselves.

00:23:11.560 And in Gascon's defense, he has, well before the Menendez brothers, for three years, has

00:23:19.320 initiated resentencing for over 300 people, 28 of them convicted of murder.

00:23:25.980 And out of all of those 300, only four have reoffended, and not for any kind of violent

00:23:32.440 act, but for technical violations.

00:23:34.980 Well, yeah, these are not two young men who had some, you know, multiple murder spree.

00:23:39.920 It's like, clearly there was a, you know, as I've said this before, somebody said it

00:23:43.740 to me one time about this case, and I thought that was a good point.

00:23:47.860 A parent murdered by his child has really received the ultimate F in parenting.

00:23:54.600 You know, it's, there, obviously something went very, very wrong in this household with

00:23:59.960 both parents and both children.

00:24:02.280 Our mutual friend, Adam Carolla, who is, at one point was my podcast partner, Adam is

00:24:12.880 the one who I thought crystallizes the best.

00:24:16.540 Adam's got teenagers, Natalia and Sonny, twins.

00:24:20.460 And Adam would say to me for years before I, before I represented the Menendez, he says,

00:24:26.000 if Nat, if Natalia goes into Sonny's room on a Friday and says, Sonny, let's go blow

00:24:31.900 my mom and dad's face off on Sunday, and Sonny says this Sunday or next Sunday, Adam's point

00:24:38.820 was, I think I have failed as a parent, and I'm not really worried.

00:24:43.740 Yes, I know.

00:24:44.860 All right.

00:24:45.120 So in that 2020 retrospective, it's still available on podcast if you guys want to listen

00:24:49.940 to it.

00:24:50.260 It's good.

00:24:50.900 It's only a couple weeks ago.

00:24:52.140 Um, they resurfaced Barbara Walter's interview with them, as I pointed out.

00:24:56.620 Here's a bit of Lyle and Eric describing their relationship with their father, Jose, in this

00:25:01.520 1996 interview with Barbara, 40, SOT 43.

00:25:07.180 Describe your relationship with your father.

00:25:09.500 Brutal.

00:25:10.980 Uh, painful.

00:25:18.260 Torturous.

00:25:18.780 And yet, uh, I, I admired him, uh, because he was so strong.

00:25:29.060 He was, he was everything that success was, that I was taught that success was.

00:25:35.920 Uh, and, uh, I thought that he was the most powerful and brilliant person I had ever met.

00:25:42.260 I was, I was, his firstborn son, that was very important to him, and it was, and he was a

00:25:48.540 very, uh, forceful, and I, I think very brutal person.

00:25:54.500 And, um, my, my bond with him was, I thought, strong because we had been through so much together.

00:26:06.740 You know, it's confusing to some people to hear them say anything nice about him, Mark,

00:26:11.380 right?

00:26:13.640 Yeah.

00:26:14.140 And by the way, I think, I don't know about you, but that to me is what resonates with

00:26:20.480 they're not making this up.

00:26:21.900 And it speaks volumes because it's, can you imagine what the, how the brain processes that

00:26:28.880 kind of abuse and, and the kinds of cross currents that you have to go through?

00:26:34.560 I've sat and listened to experts for hundreds, if not thousands of hours, talk about how the

00:26:41.200 brain copes with abuse and how the brain deals with these kinds of trauma and what the healing

00:26:47.980 process is and things like that.

00:26:50.080 Well, I'll give you, I'll give you one other point in your favor on this, that letter that

00:26:53.660 surfaced that you say you've dated to, you think eight or nine months before the murders

00:26:57.660 in it, this isn't, um, Eric in great detail saying he comes in and he does the following

00:27:04.880 things.

00:27:05.400 This is what he does.

00:27:06.180 This is the amount of time he's been doing it.

00:27:07.700 It's caused me great strife and pain and upset.

00:27:09.960 Like that's to me how somebody who's just laying the foundation for a murder defense would

00:27:15.140 sound, there'd be more in there.

00:27:16.720 He sounds to me more like somebody who really did have this happening to him, who was embarrassed

00:27:20.920 and ashamed about it as all abuse victims are, uh, you know, unnecessarily, but it comes

00:27:26.460 with the territory.

00:27:27.460 They shouldn't be ashamed.

00:27:28.800 They, they, they haven't done anything, but, um, that's how the letter reads to me.

00:27:34.680 I couldn't agree more.

00:27:36.220 And you've heard me, I think say it before, and I forget who first penned it.

00:27:39.940 Otherwise I give them credit.

00:27:41.980 If these were the Menendez sisters, we wouldn't be sitting here talking about getting them out 1.00

00:27:46.620 of prison.

00:27:47.060 Okay.

00:27:47.300 But, but let me, let me, before we get too soft on them, um, cause I've got to be the

00:27:51.640 pro ho again for a second.

00:27:55.700 Um, they did go on a spending spree after the parents work after they killed their parents.

00:28:02.440 And that was so, that was one of the worst things they could possibly have done in terms

00:28:07.080 of being found, you know, guilty of murder or manslaughter.

00:28:09.840 Cause the public was looking at it like what the they're celebrating.

00:28:13.840 And the prosecution's theory in part was they wanted the parents money.

00:28:16.680 They were, they were worried Jose was going to change his will.

00:28:19.400 And, um, Barbara asked them about that a bit in Sop 44.

00:28:23.120 Here it is.

00:28:27.080 There are people, a great number of people who think that you two are spoiled brats. 0.97

00:28:33.240 What do you say to them?

00:28:34.240 I don't know that there's anything I can say to them because I came from a family of wealth.

00:28:39.700 It doesn't make me spoiled.

00:28:43.460 I'm, I'm just a normal kid. 0.99

00:28:45.400 Oh, Eric, you're a normal kid who killed your parents. 0.96

00:28:49.460 Yeah, I know. 0.99

00:28:50.320 And you still say you're a normal kid.

00:28:53.900 Well, I, I didn't have normal experiences, but I, I am.

00:28:57.200 I, I, I did that.

00:28:58.760 And, uh, there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about what happened and wish that I could, I could take that moment back.

00:29:06.460 Is it hard for you, Lyle?

00:29:09.860 It is, it is difficult to, uh, be a whole 28 years defined by a day.

00:29:19.300 What about the spending spree and the financial incentive and all that?

00:29:26.520 You know, I could be wrong, but my memory is, and it hasn't been in the forefront of, uh, kind of the challenge, but my memory is in real time that the DA had gone to the grand jury with a financial gain special circumstance and that the grand jury rejected it.

00:29:45.800 And, um, and I have also talked to experts over the years in many different contexts, and the experts will tell you that that is not necessarily, in fact, I had a case, uh, another murder case back in the nineties where the person who was, uh, and it was a male who was raped, uh, then took the credit cards of the rapist and went on a spending spree.

00:30:14.960 And I remember at the time, back in the nineties, the expert explaining to me, that's a way to punish the perpetrator.

00:30:22.320 And I suppose you could say, oh, it was for financial gain.

00:30:27.000 It was this or that.

00:30:28.080 But I, I think it's consistent with somebody who's working through that kind of trauma.

00:30:33.060 I mean, I guess looking back, I feel like clearly they wanted them dead.

00:30:37.420 They, they claim they were being tortured by the father and that the mother was complicit and had no life.

00:30:44.780 Cause a lot of people want to know, what about her?

00:30:46.380 Why did she have to die?

00:30:47.800 That is a big question.

00:30:49.240 I mean, I think that's probably a lot of why they got the life sentence and, you know, like she wasn't abusing them.

00:30:54.940 Although there was, I don't know if there may have been some testimony to that effect.

00:30:57.780 Um, but what do you say to those people, Mark, who say, what about her?

00:31:03.560 Well, there, there was a rule in that house that was enforced by Kitty that if Jose was with one of the sons down the hall in a bedroom, you could not go down the hall.

00:31:14.840 And I have heard that from the victim's family themselves.

00:31:21.280 And I was with Joan just yesterday.

00:31:24.920 Joan is the 92, she turns 93 next month, older sister of Kitty.

00:31:30.440 She is the most forceful proponent for getting them out.

00:31:35.140 So if, if Kitty's own older sister, who was more of a protector of Kitty than anybody is advocating, who am I?

00:31:44.380 Who is anybody else to, to say, no, we're here to stand up for Kitty.

00:31:49.020 Her own sister is saying, let him out.

00:31:51.060 Okay.

00:31:51.380 So final question.

00:31:53.400 What are the percentage odds that Lyle and Eric Menendez will be at your house this Thanksgiving?

00:31:58.760 I'm going to, I'm going to say better than 50, 50. 0.62

00:32:01.960 How's that?

00:32:02.480 I don't want to presume, I don't want to presume I'm the judge, but if, if the law is filed and if the facts pan out exactly as they should, they should be out as soon as we do a hearing.

00:32:17.160 I guess I do have one more question.

00:32:18.660 This judge reputation for being tough in these cases or not, you know, is, I mean, like, is this somebody who could be persuaded that they should be let out?

00:32:28.660 He's a fair judge.

00:32:29.980 He's a very fair judge.

00:32:31.200 I mean, he's, I've, I've known him as long as he's been on the bench, I believe, and I've always thought the world of him.

00:32:38.320 I'm, I'm not going to, and by the way, for those who might say, well, you're never going to say anything negative before he makes a decision.

00:32:45.200 I've known him in a million different contexts at the Superior Court.

00:32:50.140 He has been assigned by the presiding judge for years in this position to handle these kinds of cases, meaning resentencing and writs and things of that nature.

00:33:00.340 He's one of the smartest guys on the bench.

00:33:02.640 Hmm.

00:33:03.060 All right.

00:33:03.580 Well, we will be watching.

00:33:04.920 Mark Garagos, such a pleasure.

00:33:07.120 Thank you so much for joining us today.

00:33:09.080 Megan, it's always good to see you.

00:33:10.420 Thank you.

00:33:10.700 See you soon.

00:33:11.560 And we will be right back with your questions.

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00:34:44.900 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.

00:34:53.780 It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and

00:34:58.660 important political, legal, and cultural figures today.

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00:35:52.120 Welcome back to The Megan Kelly Show.

00:35:53.880 Now it's time for another edition of You Can't Say That or Think That or Do That.

00:35:58.200 Oh wait, this is America.

00:35:59.920 And today we're talking about seasons.

00:36:02.340 It's October, which means that it's that time of year when the leaves are changing colors

00:36:06.640 and the pumpkins come out.

00:36:08.460 In other words, it's fall or autumn.

00:36:11.440 But according to a recent column in Nature Magazine, two scientists and researchers say

00:36:16.840 using the terms fall and autumn is actually completely inappropriate.

00:36:22.960 You see, it's a sign of your bias, a bias that you may not even know you have if you are

00:36:29.360 watching this right now.

00:36:30.760 The terms are not inclusive, you see, and neither are the other seasons.

00:36:35.880 Summer, winter, and spring are exclusive.

00:36:40.580 They're not inclusive.

00:36:41.880 Of whom?

00:36:43.400 What sort of bias is this that they've identified in you?

00:36:47.700 Well, describing October as autumn is actually just your northern hemisphere bias talking.

00:36:54.020 Yes, these two researchers are from Australia, you see, where their seasons in the southern

00:36:59.040 hemisphere are very, very different.

00:37:01.200 They say the practice of using, quote, region-specific seasonal markers should be ended and immediately.

00:37:07.800 But thankfully, these scientists have given some suggestions for how we can be more seasonally

00:37:13.560 inclusive in order to avoid a, quote, Euro-American-centric approach.

00:37:19.160 Only use months instead of seasons.

00:37:23.400 They would also like science conferences to, quote, respect work-life balance by understanding

00:37:29.880 that January in the southern hemisphere is like August.

00:37:33.720 For those of us in the northern hemisphere, we should be avoiding using those months for

00:37:40.260 work travel to respect our Aussie friends.

00:37:43.080 So remember, if you are thinking about calling the next season that kicks off on December 21st,

00:37:48.980 winter, you're being very offensive.

00:37:52.220 And you can't say that, oh, wait, this is America, where it's fall.

00:37:57.560 And now it's time for Asked and Answered, where I answer some of the questions that you guys

00:38:02.340 have sent in to our show mailbox.

00:38:04.800 It's megan, M-E-G-Y-N, at megankelly.com.

00:38:07.900 And joining me for that is my executive producer of the show, Steve Krakauer.

00:38:11.380 Hey, Steve.

00:38:12.060 Hey, Megan.

00:38:12.560 How's it going?

00:38:13.200 Got some great questions today.

00:38:14.820 And I'm going to start with one.

00:38:16.040 It's a little bit morbid, but I think it's actually an interesting question.

00:38:19.240 This is about the election coming up.

00:38:21.000 It's from Joshua.

00:38:21.880 And he wants to know, he says, with Jimmy Carter looking on his deathbed, remember that

00:38:24.980 video we showed?

00:38:26.360 He said, it's a no-brainer that they had cast his vote early.

00:38:29.440 They've made a big deal about him casting his vote for Kamala Harris.

00:38:32.020 Is it constitutionally legal to count a dead person's vote?

00:38:36.000 How do they reconcile that?

00:38:37.240 And then, good point, on that same thought process, shouldn't we all vote early?

00:38:41.380 For every election, for the rest of time.

00:38:44.800 Right, just in case.

00:38:46.000 I think that, yes, I've seen an article on this, and it is legal, though it depends on

00:38:51.640 the state.

00:38:52.340 But I think in Georgia, right, where he lives, it's okay.

00:38:55.740 So if you, as long as you're alive when you cast the ballot, that's the bare minimum that's

00:39:02.000 required.

00:39:02.460 If you die after that, but before election day, it's kosher. 0.88

00:39:06.280 But check your specific state.

00:39:08.380 But I'm sure the Jimmy Carter people looked into it.

00:39:11.640 I don't know.

00:39:12.340 I think the bigger problem in his case is he did not seem compass mentis at all.

00:39:17.300 That really looked like a case of elder abuse.

00:39:19.920 It was disturbing.

00:39:21.460 I can't believe his family did it to him, but whatevs, you do you.

00:39:25.160 The vote counts either way, apparently.

00:39:26.880 Okay, good to know.

00:39:27.900 Suzanne has a question.

00:39:29.260 She says she's a therapist, one of the few in the D.C. area that refuses to affirm.

00:39:33.820 So interesting, you can identify that, Suzanne in the D.C. area. 1.00

00:39:37.140 She's also a mom, and she says that she has seen you write about some potential blowback

00:39:44.160 for kids.

00:39:44.840 How does a family handle this?

00:39:46.400 Do you worry about your children being bullied or treated differently because of your views on

00:39:50.360 controversial topics?

00:39:52.780 Well, that's a good question.

00:39:54.000 Thank you for that, Suzanne.

00:39:54.980 I don't think the blowback would come to my kids for anything I've said or done.

00:39:59.540 But of course, I share my opinions with my kids, and I think my kids share some of them,

00:40:05.580 not all of them, but they're coming to their own decisions with their own minds on these

00:40:09.580 issues.

00:40:10.220 And obviously, I'm an input.

00:40:11.740 I'm a major input to the way they see the world.

00:40:15.240 And I'm conscious of that.

00:40:16.740 I know, obviously, I'm an authority figure, and kids look up to their parents, and we're

00:40:21.740 still in that period before they're 16 where they disregard everything we say and do.

00:40:26.940 So I try not to abuse it just by indoctrinating them.

00:40:29.760 I just try to say, look, this is how I feel about it.

00:40:31.960 This is what the other side says about it.

00:40:35.000 Because they could get blowback.

00:40:36.520 There are these issues, especially the trans issue, is very dicey.

00:40:39.580 But I do think what's true is true.

00:40:43.680 And if speaking the truth gets you in, quote, trouble, then there's something wrong with

00:40:49.320 the system you're operating in.

00:40:50.660 Like, that system might need to be busted up.

00:40:53.320 It might need a disruptor, like your kid or you.

00:40:57.440 Not everybody wants to play that role.

00:40:58.920 I make very clear to my kids, you know, there could be consequences to you in taking on any

00:41:03.480 of these issues.

00:41:04.020 And they have to decide whether that's for them.

00:41:05.640 But I definitely am not telegraphing, like, don't make trouble.

00:41:09.680 You know, I'm not that person.

00:41:11.620 And I'm also not, you know, go put on your warrior hat and pick fights everywhere.

00:41:16.680 You know, I give them the information.

00:41:18.620 I arm them with it.

00:41:19.780 And then the rest is up to them.

00:41:23.100 Right, right.

00:41:24.040 Well, our last one kind of relates to that.

00:41:25.960 It's from Robin.

00:41:26.600 She says, you get fired up on the show over there are a lot of very important issues and

00:41:29.960 concerns.

00:41:30.320 But how do you release all the stress and worries at the end of your day?

00:41:33.480 Thank you for that, Robin.

00:41:35.860 The show is actually my stress reliever.

00:41:37.980 The show is my stress.

00:41:39.020 For sure.

00:41:39.520 It's my therapy.

00:41:40.280 These two hours.

00:41:40.920 If I don't get to do the show, especially on a day where there's nonsense in the news, 0.94

00:41:45.200 like things that need to be fact checked or bullshit media stories are being spun, I 0.96

00:41:49.740 get aggravated. 0.96

00:41:51.260 Like, I don't feel right.

00:41:52.780 It's like a warm bath for me, the show, in that way.

00:41:56.060 So I use this show and have this experience with all of you that I hope is somewhat cathartic.

00:42:01.440 It could fire you up, but hopefully then it feels cathartic.

00:42:04.340 And in my free time, I don't know.

00:42:05.960 I don't really have that much free time.

00:42:07.500 I've recently become an exerciser again.

00:42:11.100 Net over the course of my life, I'm more of an exerciser than I'm not, but I was in a

00:42:14.700 very long lull.

00:42:16.220 So I've been doing a lot of that.

00:42:17.760 Doug and I love going for a walk, especially in these fall colors.

00:42:22.700 That's super fun.

00:42:23.760 So, you know, we'll just text each other.

00:42:25.320 Are you free to do a loop around the neighborhood?

00:42:27.200 Like free for a loop.

00:42:27.800 Uh, sometimes I play with the dogs.

00:42:32.880 There's no exhausting.

00:42:34.400 My red dog, as you know, and I do a lot, a lot, a lot of audio, a lot of audio podcasts,

00:42:40.760 a lot of audio, um, books, not as many shows.

00:42:45.100 I will confess one of the shows I really like to pop on.

00:42:47.720 Like if I'm cooking dinner is curb your enthusiasm.

00:42:50.500 That's the difference between me and Larry David.

00:42:52.280 I can still enjoy him as a, you know, person and a talent notwithstanding his politics.

00:42:58.100 I know he would not feel the same about me based on Alan Dershowitz's story about him,

00:43:02.220 but that's too bad for him because I wouldn't want to cut out half of, you know, the performers

00:43:07.740 in Hollywood or maybe all 90% based on their politics.

00:43:11.680 So I like that show.

00:43:12.440 A lot, a lot of F-bombs, even for me, to be honest, Steve, but, but I love the show.

00:43:18.300 It's hilarious.

00:43:19.200 It's hilarious.

00:43:19.740 Great one.

00:43:20.120 Hey, well, you know what my, my show, by the way, Judge Judy. 1.00

00:43:23.260 Really?

00:43:23.780 My relax with an episode of Judge Judy.

00:43:26.300 Yeah.

00:43:26.500 I have them on my DVR.

00:43:27.440 I just ready to go.

00:43:28.100 If I have like a free 20 minutes.

00:43:30.380 Clearly you don't have problems hanging around strong women all day. 1.00

00:43:36.260 True.

00:43:36.940 True.

00:43:37.400 Good point.

00:43:38.480 That's funny.

00:43:39.120 There's something in there.

00:43:39.980 I got to talk to your wife, Megan, the other Megan about this.

00:43:42.620 I want to know more.

00:43:43.440 That's funny.

00:43:44.860 All right.

00:43:45.400 More next week.

00:43:46.080 All right.

00:43:46.600 Yeah.

00:43:46.740 Keep them coming.

00:43:47.520 Megan, M-E-G-Y-N at Megan Kelly.

00:43:50.120 Dot com.

00:43:51.600 Thanks for joining us today, everybody.

00:43:52.920 Have a great weekend and we'll speak to you Monday.

00:43:59.480 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

00:44:01.680 No BS, no agenda and no fear.

00:44:20.120 We'll see you next week.

00:44:21.180 Tell them about that.

00:44:21.360 I'll see you next week.

00:44:21.880 Bye.

00:44:23.420 Bye.

The Megyn Kelly Show - October 26, 2024

Menendez Brothers Could Be RELEASED, with Mark Geragos, Plus Megyn on Early Voting and How to Unwind ｜ Ep. 927

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