Jason Whitlock joins The Megyn Kelly Show to talk about the Alec Murdoch case, his feud with Stephen A. Smith, and why he thinks Matt Perry is a fraud. Plus, some sad and disturbing new details about Matthew Perry.
00:10:03.540He didn't throw this baby-like tantrum that Stephen A. Smith did.
00:10:07.540But where Stephen A. Smith, he wraps himself in a lot of his conversations as a black man because of too many people in the black journalism industry.
00:10:19.000And just overall, if they get criticized, they love to say, well, the only reason why you're criticizing is because you're a racist.
00:11:01.860He's the one who puts himself in front of white folks, not all white folks, not most white folks, but the white folk that, dare we say, may have a problem with black folks.
00:11:12.040Adding, I cannot imagine, as a black man, knowing our history, anything worse than a white supremacist.
00:11:18.900That is, until Jason Whitlock came along.
00:13:55.900And he wants that brand to be associated with truth-telling.
00:13:58.540He said even in his response, I don't tell lies.
00:14:01.080And you're saying, I got questions about whether you do.
00:14:03.960And as a public figure, if you can divide those two things, you can forgive and forget and not obsess over somebody's personal slights toward you.
00:14:12.380But all of this leads me, Jason, to—it's a perfect segue to something Michelle Obama said.
00:14:18.160And my team watched this whole interview she gave to this popular podcast host.
00:14:22.460And some of it we played the day after it hit.
00:14:26.060And this quote I said—I knew you were coming on on Friday.
00:18:06.200She's still bitter about her circumstances, those of her husband, and this country.
00:18:12.660Take an example just for her as a woman.
00:18:17.140And I don't want to come off as sexist, but just her as a woman.
00:18:21.040What woman wouldn't want to spend eight years on the cover of virtually every magazine being portrayed as one of the most glamorous, sexy, you know, most beautiful women in the world?
00:18:36.900And I'm just sorry, objectively, you know, there's a standard lowering for us to sell that myth that, like, this is one of the 20 most beautiful women on the planet.
00:18:50.780And then compare her treatment to Melania Trump, who—and so I don't care what your taste is.
00:19:02.960Maybe you prefer, Michelle, maybe you like a taller woman or, you know, a woman with broad shoulders or whatever.
00:19:09.000I'm just—maybe she's your cup of tea.
00:19:11.140But Melania Trump, I don't think, was on the cover of any magazine.
00:19:14.840It wasn't allowed for her to be celebrated, her beauty to be celebrated.
00:19:20.280And so who's—what standards were lowered for Melania Trump?
00:19:25.480And what standards were elevated for Michelle Obama?
00:19:30.560I mean, just as a woman, and I just don't know many women, particularly heterosexual women, who wouldn't want to be celebrated the way Michelle Obama has been celebrated since 2007.
00:19:44.8402007, 2008, when they went into office.
00:19:48.360And I think you can objectively say, as it relates to beauty and traditional standards of beauty, they lowered the standards to sell this woman as one of the most beautiful first ladies and one of the most beautiful women on the planet.
00:20:02.420It's—she lives off in a fantasy world.
00:20:05.560She thinks every difficulty she's had in her life is attributable to race.
00:20:10.100She just has no appreciation for the fact that many of us grew up without a silver spoon and had some real challenges in getting ahead.
00:20:19.340And just thank God that we were born in a country where it's even possible.
00:21:24.580Joe Biden won and got some 80 million votes.
00:21:28.760And when you basically, you know, this whole mail-in voting system that they've instituted allows anything to be a possibility.
00:21:40.100So, yeah, I think she's running for president.
00:21:43.540I think that her life and the narrative she's bought into, I think she feels like she's entitled to that power.
00:21:51.720You know, I've watched some documentaries and I've read some books about her and Barack and just, you know, did she go to Yale or Harvard as well?
00:22:07.500And they lowered some standards to let her in.
00:22:11.220You know, she had some classmates who went to that predominantly white high school she went to in the Chicago area who couldn't get into Ivy League schools.
00:22:20.460And she got in to some and then struggled at Princeton and switched up to a sociology major and all this other stuff because she just couldn't handle it.
00:22:32.180Uh, she's lived such a life of entitlement and privilege herself.
00:22:38.500And again, she loves to talk about white privilege.
00:22:41.560Sometimes, though, Megan, I go back and forth.
00:22:45.980Does she really believe it or is it just an overall political strategy adopted by the left?
00:25:33.500In terms of taking the brand, conservative or right-wing, they've changed those into buzzwords that basically equate to evil and racist.
00:25:45.400That's what they, when they say conservative or right-wing, they're calling you evil and racist.
00:25:51.340And they've programmed everyone to think that.
00:25:54.400And so if you say MAGA supporter, if you support Donald Trump, now all of a sudden you're a member of the KKK and you're racist and you want to put black people down.
00:26:08.360And, you know, moving here to Tennessee, as I did three years ago, I have a lot more exposure to people that are out of the closet Trump supporters.
00:26:24.760And I can remember one of the first weekends I was here, when I moved here in 2020, a buddy of mine owns several nightclubs in the socializing districts of Nashville.
00:26:37.260And one of them is right across the street from, you know, my apartment or whatever.
00:26:42.420And his doorman had a Confederate flag tattoo.
00:26:47.480And, you know, first time I walk over, I'm like, man, Confederate flag tattoo.
00:26:51.840The guy didn't know me from Adam, but he and I had one of the greatest conversations about sports and other things.
00:27:02.940And it's one of those deals where, and again, I'm not sitting here defending the Confederate flag, but the Confederate flag for people down here in the South, I've just had the experience.
00:27:14.860It just doesn't mean what you think it means.
00:27:17.160And it's, but again, they've branded people from the South and everybody that they've put up all these.
00:27:25.820If you vote for Trump, if you're Republican, if you're conservative, and now they're even going to support, if you're Christian, you're a white supremacist, you're a white nationalist, you're a Christian national.
00:27:43.720I sit here and see it with my own eyes, black people and white people getting along with each other, despite whatever political differences they may have.
00:27:53.940It's, but they sell it and some people buy it.
00:28:11.100She's very clearly talking about how white people view black people.
00:28:15.760She's not talking about how black people view white people here.
00:28:18.360So I got to be, if you look at the larger context of her remarks, so I've got to be afraid of you and I, and I have to make sure you don't come into my space.
00:28:28.520If anything, what we're seeing on college campuses and elsewhere right now are black affinity groups or Hispanic affinity groups into which whites are not welcome.
00:28:35.960Just talk to the mayor of Boston on her holiday party.
00:28:39.500Um, and then we live in a culture where people with power prey on fear to get more power.
00:28:46.480Again, she's talking about very clearly demonization of black people by white people so they can get more power.
00:28:58.420How, how it's, she really needs to take a hard look at the democratic party, which is obsessed with skin color, obsessed right now.
00:29:05.460And to your point about the white supremacy, um, there literally was just, we have it, that's in a different packet, but Johns Hopkins just tweeted out their head of diversity.
00:29:16.120Uh, the vice president of diversity just tweeted out this thing defining white supremacy.
00:29:21.600I have it here and saying, here it is their diversity word of the month, Johns Hopkins hospital, one of, if not the most respected hospital in the nation, it's Hopkins and Cleveland clinic.
00:29:34.280And maybe one or two others, um, their diversity word of the month is privilege.
00:29:38.000Privilege is a set of unearned benefits given to people who are in a specific social group in the United States.
00:29:46.220Privilege is granted to people who have membership in one or more of these social identity groups.
00:29:50.780Just have to have membership in one of them to have privilege.
00:33:22.580I talked about it at Charlie Kirk's event out in Phoenix, turning point about like, men,
00:33:27.780we have to stop apologizing for America's history and all of racial history, quit apologizing
00:33:36.420for, uh, as it relates to gender and this whole sexism thing, quit apologizing for it
00:33:42.640because America's history as relates to racism and sexism, I'll stack our history of improvement and of granting freedom, uh, up against any country on the planet, the history of the planet, quit apologizing that the, the, our history
00:34:01.300history should inspire gratitude, uh, if you fully understand it and if it's unpacked properly, but they've used all this to convince men that man, your history is terrible and you better bend over backwards and, uh, surrender leadership, surrender
00:34:21.640everything to correct the mistakes in the past, because, you know, if it wasn't for the past, uh, Michelle Obama would probably be the biggest star in the NBA and she'd be making $40 million a year, but you know, the past that that's why women aren't great basketball players like men because of all the sexism and, and it's the whole argument is just stupid.
00:34:44.680And if we quit apologizing and if we quit apologizing and if we quit apologizing and really understand our history, so you have the knowledge, so you don't even bat an eye when they start telling you about what you owe because of the past, this entire people that didn't do the suffering are old because a hundred years ago, someone suffered and, and, you know, I even disagree with the whole suffering part, particularly as it relates to, you know, sexism
00:35:14.580or whatever, or whatever. It's like, Hey man, you know, things were different in the 17 and 1800s that, you know, how much work it took to clean a house in the set before a vacuum cleaner and all this stuff we got, you know, that was a real job.
00:35:30.160I mean, and not that it's not a real job now, but it's like, man, it took a lot to keep a house clean. And, and, and people, kids were seen as a gift and a blessing because it's like, man, the more kids we got,
00:35:44.040the more fun we're going to have, the more people that can help our family, uh, work together and, and, and benefit from, from having more kids. We'll have more people to be farmhands, more people to help clean the house, all the, and, and now we see kids as a burden and it's like, Oh man, you get knocked up. You should consider an abortion because that kid's a burden.
00:36:05.880And, and, and, or once they're here, they just stick them in front of the iPad and don't, don't actually do the parenting. Um, I agree with you. And especially on the stuff that you said about what we're doing to men.
00:36:15.900I agree with, because we're trying to rob men of their swagger and that's a sin. Like we need men with swagger. It's attractive. It's kind of necessary for the continuation of the human race.
00:36:27.920And it, we shouldn't be trying to ruin their swagger. Men are risk takers. And that's, and again, not to say that women aren't, but take the Wright brothers that invented flying.
00:36:40.100They were risking their lives. And, and, and you go, you go to that, the aviation museum down in Washington and actually just look at the Wright exhibit. It's stunning.
00:36:48.080These were ballsy dudes. Yes. And that's our role. And we used to understand like, man, we're going to do some things that may cost us our lives, may shorten our lives, but it's going to advance the country, make things better for my wife, kids, the whole nation, the next generation of people.
00:37:07.700Again, I try to explain, like these people in the civil war, they knew they were potentially very likely going to die or be seriously injured, but they were doing it for other people to benefit black people to benefit.
00:37:23.840And, uh, all these roughnecks that helped build skyscrapers and the injury rate and death rate for roughnecks was astronomical.
00:37:33.060And women weren't saying, Hey, I want to be a roughneck. Uh, cause that's, they got to protect their womb. They got to protect their children. They're just, they're wired differently.
00:37:44.640And, and it's not their role to go out and be a roughneck and risk your life to invent airplanes and risk your life doing that.
00:37:53.340And that's not diminishing them, but we're, you know, men are supposed to take bullets to be quite honest with you in protection of freedom,
00:38:02.120in protection of fairness and justice. You know, we need to be willing to sacrifice our lives. I'm not asking women to do that because I don't think that's their role.
00:38:11.760And, and so the reason why men have dominated inventions and all this other stuff is because, you know, that's what we're supposed to do.
00:38:22.200And it's, that's not, that does not diminish women because I'm just telling y'all, y'all's womb is so incredibly valuable.
00:38:31.300I try to explain to people, you only, and I'm sorry for speaking this, uh, rawly, but you only need one penis to replenish the earth.
00:38:42.220And we used to recognize that. That's why men would go off to war and we'd be like, ah, there's a bunch of them's going to die, but at least we'll have these wombs back here and our kids will be safe.
00:38:52.720And, but we don't have a priority. We're so mentally ill. We don't prioritize our kids.
00:39:00.980And you're right about that. I mean, I'll say, look, obviously I'm a working woman and I love it. And I love the chance that I have to do it.
00:39:09.780And I look up to people like Marie Curie and what she did and invented these brilliant women who have come before me, especially at a time when it was tougher to, to be, you know, recognized or ascend in one's field.
00:39:21.680But what we've done now is overcorrected. Like we always do. And we've, we've gotten this place where we demonize.
00:39:27.000I actually said to my daughter's school, I said, you know what you should do in addition to like the career night where you parade in all these Harvard grads and have them say, you know, these women, because she goes to an all-girls school and have them say, look, this is what I, you should have a night where you bring in stay-at-home moms who talk about that life choice and how much they love it and how well it's worked out and why they chose it.
00:39:47.880And make sure these girls see that that's a totally great choice. It depends on the person. That's it.
00:39:53.620It depends on what we got in this place where we think that's sort of anti-feminist now, or there's some sort of diminishment in the, in the women who choose to stay at home, which is, it's, it's a lie.
00:40:02.760It's yet another lie that's being sold to young women.
00:40:06.260And I said, also bring in the C students, bring in the people who went to the third tier and fourth tier colleges who wound up doing great at their life.
00:40:14.360You don't have to go to fricking Harvard where they want to make you into an anti-Semite for four years and $400,000, like do something else.
00:40:22.340All right, I got to squeeze in a quick break because my team's yelling at me and then we're going to come right back with Jason Whitlock.
00:41:00.440And Aaron Rodgers goes on this show, I guess, or was at least going on weekly and said about Kimmel that Kimmel was among those really hoping the Epstein list did not come out.
00:41:11.520Kimmel went on his show this past Monday and said the following in response.
00:43:24.580Well, Jimmy Kimmel has moved the goalposts and moved the conversation to a place that's dishonest.
00:43:32.400If you watch Aaron Rodgers' full explanation and if you understand the background, he was not the joke that he told on the Pat McAfee show originally.
00:43:43.360It wasn't about Jimmy Kimmel being a pedophile.
00:43:49.080It was about Jimmy Kimmel rooting for and hoping the Epstein list never came out and that there's a backstory that Jimmy Kimmel and Aaron Rodgers or Kimmel had cracked some jokes about Aaron Rodgers even having an interest in the Epstein list.
00:44:07.640Because let's say six, seven months ago, maybe even as long ago as a year ago, Aaron Rodgers speculated that, hey, the Epstein list is going to come out and blah, blah, blah.
00:44:18.340And Jimmy Kimmel at that time started cracking jokes about Aaron Rodgers being a tinfoil hat guy, about this Epstein list.
00:44:25.800And so Rodgers' original comment or joke that started this latest round of a feud was about, yeah, Jimmy, he was basically saying, I told you the Epstein list was going to come out.
00:44:37.920And, and, you know, Jimmy Kimmel was hoping that it didn't.
00:44:42.100Jimmy Kimmel then goes and does a monologue and says, oh, he's, he's saying that I was going to be on the Epstein list.
00:44:49.060He knows that's untrue, but he knows if he can get everyone talking about that and he can play the victim, then he can put some pressure on ESPN and Aaron Rodgers.
00:45:00.460Because again, Kimmel, ABC, ESPN, they're both owned by Disney.
00:45:58.860ESPN is in the news today for getting Emmy awards that were attained under false pretenses.
00:46:07.720Apparently the rule is if you work on a show like SportsCenter and you're just your talent on SportsCenter, you can't get the individual Emmy if the show SportsCenter is getting one.
00:46:18.100You could get an individual Emmy in some other categories, but you can't get it for like best show, even if you're one of the anchors of it.
00:46:24.320And so ESPN decided that it'd be a great idea if like Megan Kelly were an anchor of SportsCenter to submit a fake like Michael Kelly name, get the award with my initials and then like scrub the trophy and then give it to me, Megan Kelly.
00:46:44.320So I could say I won an Emmy and it's not even clear whether the talent knew they were being given fake Emmys.
00:46:50.400But this to me, Jason, underscores how pathetic and feeble minded the people who would submit like these executives at ESPN are.
00:46:58.900How pathetic that you're that obsessed with those stupid little fake gold trophies that you would jump through these hoops in order to give fake rewards to your talent.
00:47:08.160I mean, that was one of the things that was great about Roger in the entire time Fox News from when it was born to when he died.
00:47:13.260And I'm sure to present day, he never submitted it or anybody for a reward for an award because he knew it's a bullshit, corrupt industry.
00:47:22.060Roger Ells was a brilliant, smart man ahead of his time in the newspaper industry.
00:47:30.840You know, when I started in the 1990s and all the way through probably about 2010, there was an obsession with in the sports world with these APSE awards.
00:47:41.480And there's obsessions with Pulitzer Prizes and all this other stuff.
00:47:45.320And it actually works to corrupt journalism.
00:47:49.240You start editors start planning all year how we can win a Pulitzer, how we can win an APSE.
00:47:55.240That's the Associated Press Sports Editors Awards.
00:47:57.500And so you'd put out these bogus narrative driven stories to win these awards.
00:48:05.440And many of these stories avoided truth.
00:48:13.660And that's how people got bonuses and how you got to promote the right people as the best in the business rather than promoting the people who actually were the best in the business.
00:48:24.200And Roger Ells is smart enough to see, like, man, if I get into this awards culture, it's baiting my talent to avoid truth and to say what's popular.
00:48:37.740And he knew we didn't want to be a club, a member of the clubs that would have us as members.
00:49:00.440While we've spent a lot of time discussing politics this week, there were a lot of cultural headlines that we've been wanting to dive into, including new accusations against the late Matthew Perry that shed a very different light on the man we thought we knew.
00:49:16.020Joining me now, Will Witt, author of the recently released book, Do Not Comply, and Evita Duffy Alfonso.
00:49:24.920Will and Evita, great to have you both back.
00:49:26.900So this is very sad to me, and I really don't have any wish to disparage the man's legacy, but facts are facts, and we should know exactly who it is we're lauding.
00:49:37.800And since we did laud him on the show, I felt the need to round back to this.
00:49:40.680One of the things he said was that he wanted, more than anything, his legacy to not be friends, but to be the fact that he got sober and helped other people get sober.
00:49:49.800And the reporting that has now come out, Us Weekly is one thing, with all due respect to Us Weekly, but they have a bombshell cover report this week.
00:49:59.840But Daily Mail, I'm telling you, Daily Mail, they're pretty vigorous about their fact-checking.
00:50:06.420They're more salacious in the topics they choose, but they do not want to get sued, and they're pretty careful about their fact-reporting, irrespective of the spin they may put on it.
00:50:16.760And there is a woman over there, a reporter, an intrepid gal named Alison Boshoff, who is reporting woman after woman coming forward to say that he violently assaulted them, that he was never sober, that we were sold a bill of goods in his memoir, in which he claimed he was sober, and all he did was spend his later years helping people get sober.
00:50:41.420However, as Maureen Callahan wrote up in a great piece that's posted now, his greatest performance was not on Friends, it was as a newly sober good guy who just wanted to help others get clean.
00:51:29.460And they're basically saying it was a lie, and this, you know, addicted guy never did conquer that beast, and really just did what he did best in that memoir, and in his interview with Diane Sawyer, which was ACT.
00:51:48.400You know, I'm always a little bit torn after someone dies, and then allegations start coming out about someone, you're like, what do you really believe?
00:51:54.260The person isn't even there to defend themselves, but in this situation, I would say that I would look at these women, and it seems pretty, I guess you could say, airtight, especially with the Daily Mail coming and reporting on it and saying these things, and I would say that it's probably true.
00:52:06.080And what it goes to show me, and all of this, more than anything, is that Hollywood is an evil place, with people who are all liars, with people who don't really care about actually being good people, they care about selling an image of being a good person, and that's why it's like, why are we putting so much credence in talking about these people, and saying like, oh, this celebrity, this A-list person who lives in this mansion, who has no ties to what a normal person goes through, why am I taking even life advice from this type of person in these types of things?
00:52:35.600To me, it's just, the way that this is, and how we're viewing it is so much more of a lack of good priorities on the normal Americans' part, that we are heralding these people up, putting them up so high on a pedestal, and then when they fall down, being shocked and surprised that they weren't actually these good people, these people are in Hollywood.
00:52:53.940These are the worst people in America, really, other than maybe some of the big pharma people, but these are the people who care really nothing about us, and are doing it all for vanity, why would you expect them to be telling the truth about these things?
00:53:04.660It is an industry that corrupts. There's no question. Evita, it's interesting. In his memoir, he described this so-called Aaron that was a pseudonym. She's come out, and we know her name is Morgan Moses now. Again, that's from Boshoff's reporting. He talked about her in the memoir. Here's some audio in which he described her.
00:53:24.040I met her two years earlier at another rehab where she had been working at the time. I didn't get sober back then, but I saw how wonderful she was in every way, and promptly stole her from the sober living rehab and made her my assistant.
00:53:39.620And she became my best friend. She, too, understood the nature of addiction and would come to know my struggles better than any doctor I'd ever seen.
00:53:51.720Despite the comfort that Aaron brought to the situation, I still spent many sleepless nights in Southern California.
00:53:59.760Sleep is a real issue for me, especially when I'm in one of those places.
00:54:03.720That said, I don't think I've ever slept more than four hours straight in my entire life.
00:54:10.160It didn't help that we'd been watching nothing but prison documentaries, and I was coming off so much Xanax, my brain had fried to the point where I was convinced that I was an actual prisoner and that this sober living place was an actual jail.
00:54:24.420Hmm. You tell me, Evita, I feel like we, to Will's point, we have a thing as Americans, and it's to our credit, but it's not always right.
00:54:35.700We need to build people back up after they've fallen.
00:54:39.360Like, we need to root for people's redemption chapter.
00:54:44.800I think we never really know what's going on behind the scenes when it comes to celebrities, when it comes to politicians.
00:54:50.660There was a great Elon Musk quote from just a short while ago where he said, we have so many people who care about looking good while doing evil.
00:54:59.880And so, obviously, this audio book and this projection that he wanted to make about his friend and his life and the way that he's just raising awareness was not the full picture.
00:55:11.680And I'll say, I know really genuinely good people in my life, and when they do good things, they do them quietly.
00:55:19.460Exactly. The little old ladies who are, you know, knitting clothing for the babies in the NICU, people who are volunteering at your church, the moms who are, you know, making snacks and meals at the end of the day for their families.
00:55:33.680I mean, these are people who do good things and are good people, and they don't need to parade it around and to brag about it.
00:55:40.840And to me, any time we have a celebrity or a politician who is acting in the way that Matthew Perry did before he died, it's a red flag for me.
00:55:48.420You know, it is so true, because I can tell you one thing for sure.
00:55:52.440Whenever you see a celebrity, Meghan Markle or anyone else, in a soup kitchen or a battered women's shelter, domestic violence shelter, there are no cameras in those places.
00:56:03.320The celebrity has brought in the camera because she or he wants attention on themselves.
00:56:10.600They want attention on their own good deed.
00:56:13.100It's like there are a lot of people who go out there and do great things for people who are hurting, and they don't do it because they want credit or to burnish their image.
00:56:22.440I'm not saying that was Matthew Perry, but to your point, Will, you know, the Friends cast, they knew this guy was an addict.
00:56:29.060You know, like, why didn't Friends or the producers say, you know what, Matthew Perry, you need to take a year off.
00:56:34.700You need to go, Chandler is going to go on sabbatical someplace, and you've got to get yourself some help.
00:56:39.540We've heard about those things happening on other shows.
00:56:42.200Instead, you know, they definitely knew.
00:56:43.920Here he was talking to Diane Sawyer, describing his behavior on the set.
00:57:07.180But I would show up blindly hungover, like shaking and crazy hungover.
00:57:15.960So you tell me why somebody didn't intervene.
00:57:18.700And insist that their, quote, friend get some help.
00:57:23.220Well, I don't think these people really want to intervene, I guess you could say.
00:57:26.780I mean, the producers and the directors and all of these types of people getting into these positions, I feel like this is the norm for many of these types of people.
00:57:34.200So they want to come and step in or be a good person when in reality, all the people around them are doing similar things.
00:57:39.980Maybe not to the exact same extent as someone like this, but people are doing all sorts of sinful behavior and living immorally and kind of presenting that image of virtue.
00:57:51.320I think I said it on your show last time I was on that we live in a post-virtue world.
00:57:55.620But really, we live in a post-virtue world where people show that they are virtuous, fakely, more now than ever before.
00:58:02.200And that's what it really seems to come down to.
00:58:13.460The reason we went into this is because if he was never actually sober, you know, as these women who are, I mean, again, they're not there.
00:58:19.720These aren't attributable directly to them.
00:58:21.600The male is outing these reports about these women.
00:58:25.680But if these women's stories are coming forward from them or from people who know them and it's about Matthew Perry never having been sober, it's saying that he was meeting young women on dating sites and then he would hit them up for drugs.
00:58:37.080This is all during his alleged sobriety.
00:58:39.400It's just it's a different story, right?
00:58:41.340If that's how he was treating the people who are most important to him, his fiance, his young assistant, his sober coach.
00:58:49.100I it's just the whole thing makes me sad.
00:58:51.340Evita, on the story of Americans Need the Redemption chapter, whether somebody deserves it or not, this young woman, Gypsy Rose, is all over the news.
00:59:02.720And now I understand what the mother did to her.
00:59:07.360The mother had what we used to call Munchausen's by proxy and hurt this poor girl at every turn and raised her like she had about twenty five thousand illnesses.
00:59:18.220She was in a wheelchair, alleged infections.
00:59:20.960The mother was making it all happen because the mother needed attention.
00:59:29.500That may be too strong a term for the relationship she had with this young man who was of low IQ, who was on the autism spectrum and got him to kill her mother, to stab her mother almost a couple dozen times to death.
01:04:15.620He thought he was helping somebody out.
01:04:18.140The whole thing is like so freaking tragic.
01:04:20.420But I don't know that there are any heroes in it.
01:04:22.520Yeah, I mean, for myself, I don't see any heroes in it whatsoever.
01:04:27.740I mean, definitely not these people in the media who are parading this poor woman around who obviously has mental issues and pushing her out to make a quick buck and to get headlines.
01:04:37.520I mean, this is the real horrible thing of it.
01:04:39.840And I think part of it comes from this whole obsession that so many people have nowadays with this true crime stuff and these types of murder mystery, like these types of things, the Ted Bundy and the other people that they have on Netflix shows and things like that, all these podcasts and stuff.
01:04:55.340Like people are obsessed with this stuff now.
01:04:57.320And to me, I find that so weird how obsessed our age of people have become with listening and looking at murder types of things, which.
01:05:07.440Not of murder, but of watching and liking true crime.
01:05:11.640I do think it's interesting just, I mean, I was a lawyer for 10 years, and so I'm very attracted to the legal system stories, like cases, crimes, whatever they are.
01:05:56.360Yeah, I think people have, for the most part, at least in the Western America, people around my generation have very boring lives and very meaningless lives in a lot of ways.
01:06:05.580So then these true crime documentaries come on with some excitement about someone who got absolutely brutally murdered.
01:06:10.800And that's what gives them excitement in their life is hearing about these people dying.
01:06:14.380You know, maybe I'm an armchair psychologist right now doing this.
01:06:17.060But to me, it seems like people with not much meaning in the sense of, like, having a lot of excitement going on in their lives love these kind of things because it gives them something to bring that to them.
01:06:27.860And it's weird that we just have so many people obsessing over it, in my opinion.
01:06:31.780If it is meaning that you are looking for, right, or the people who you refer to, if it is meaning they are, have I got the convention for them?
01:06:57.940FatCon is a three-day fat liberation celebration, y'all.
01:07:01.120We will be celebrating fat liberation, body acceptance, and the power of being in fat community.
01:07:05.820With over 60 hours of programming spanning from policy, legislation, healthcare, community, and visual arts, plus a ton more, this is sure to be something you don't want to miss.
01:07:31.860It's not a nice word, but she's going to embrace it, so I'm going to use it here.
01:07:34.460She wrote an article in 2022 for Allure.
01:07:38.400It's still impossibly hard to be a fat content creator online.
01:07:43.580For example, she's mad that brands don't carry above a size 3XL Evita because she thinks that's discriminatory,
01:07:52.080and that's why it's hard to be an online creator because I guess you can't look your best in the clothing of choice.
01:07:57.380And she is the one who wrote that article, or was featured in that article in Travel and Leisure,
01:08:03.940where she had drafted a petition to the FAA, got a lot of attention, proposing a comprehensive customer of size policy,
01:08:14.760prioritizing the comfort and well-being of all passengers, including a free second airplane seat for those who are, quote, fat, like Jalyn.
01:08:26.120And saying, you know, the airline, and thus the rest of us, should have to pay for her second seat.
01:08:31.200So these stories, they always, you know, make me take a pause, right?
01:08:36.680Because I do think that people, no matter what size they are, right, they still have value.
01:09:22.860That's why in universities, they have Black studies, they have Native American studies, they have lesbian dance theory, and they also have fat studies.
01:09:31.340They have put this under the umbrella of, oh, yes, they do, fat studies.
01:10:25.300Like, as a member of society, Will, you feel like, no, we have a right to speak out and say, this is not a healthy choice.
01:10:33.400This isn't just like an equal choice among others.
01:10:35.920This is an unfortunate circumstance that you found yourself in or you've chosen or whatever, but I will not get on board promoting it as a great option for others.
01:10:51.460But in reality, all of this stuff is just complete nonsense.
01:10:54.900Right now, I'm probably working on my next book, which is going to be all about health and the big pharma industry and what they are doing to people
01:11:01.500and how they push people into this overweight state, this obese state, and they're doing it as a means of control, I think, just like Avita said.
01:11:09.240I think that as concerned citizens of what we're seeing in this country right now, we have a duty to speak out against things that we see are unhealthy and wrong.
01:11:18.700I mean, just as Jesus tells us to be evangelical with our faith, to go and talk to people about our faith, it's one of the greatest gifts we have.
01:11:26.440When it comes to the truth on what we know to be true, what will help people, we should be doing the same thing in all aspects of our life.
01:11:31.980We should be going and talking to people about all of the things that are true, but people right now are too lazy to go and say something because it's too much work,
01:11:40.120or they're too scared of what other people are going to think about them for saying that being fat is unhealthy.
01:14:32.300But in reality, it is because there are people out there who live in Los Angeles and New York City and Chicago who see those things and laugh at them and think how much white people suck and that this is just a fine thing to do.
01:14:45.260And then worship these people who say these things and talk about them in the magazines and on the TV shows.
01:14:52.340I mean, it's so sad and disappointing.
01:14:54.000And when are white people going to say, like, enough is enough?
01:14:56.000Like, there's going to be some white person probably who keeps seeing these things over and over again and might commit some sort of horrible act because of how these people are treating them in the media, which is a sad and scary thing to say.
01:15:07.780But they're just getting treated and thrown around every single day.
01:15:40.460He says he worries about this kind of rhetoric, not this in particular, but in general, because what's going to happen is it's going to get turned around on black people.
01:15:47.380And he says black people aren't going to like that very much.
01:15:49.820You know, we start to talk about crime stats in the black community and so on.
01:15:53.040Like they're playing a very dangerous game with this so-called humor.
01:15:59.300I think any sort of of of racism, whether it's wrapped up in a joke or whether it's much more overt, is is is is a huge problem for any country.
01:16:09.060We've seen it in the history of this country with with the way that blacks used to be treated in the past.
01:16:13.320And then you're seeing it right now in South Africa.
01:17:52.160Okay, so up next, I could not believe, when I started digging deep into what's happening in the Alex Murdoch case down in South Carolina, you know he's seeking a new trial.
01:18:00.140He may very well get it, but you don't even know the half of what that court clerk has done that's now come back to haunt her.
01:18:07.340As we move into the hearing, he's about to get his hearing on whether he should get a new trial.
01:18:10.300And it could be a he said, he said, she said, on this juror's credibility about whether this court clerk interfered with the verdict and the jury versus this court clerk's, Becky's, Becky Hill, her testimony about whether we can believe her.
01:18:23.340And let me tell you, her credibility, it's taking some hits.
01:18:27.460I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on Sirius XM.
01:18:32.000It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today.
01:18:39.940You can catch The Megan Kelly Show on Triumph, a Sirius XM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love, great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megan Kelly.
01:18:54.600You can stream The Megan Kelly Show on Sirius XM at home or anywhere you are, no car required.
01:19:30.760Now we finish up the week with the latest on the Alec Murdoch case.
01:19:34.080Becky Hill, the embattled Colleton County Clerk of Court, and her adult son, who also works for the court, are in some very big trouble right now, and all of it could very much benefit Alec Murdoch, who's seeking a new trial, and there's a hearing to see whether he'll get it at the end of January.
01:19:54.480Will Fulks is the founding editor of Fitz News.
01:19:58.940They've been breaking all sorts of news in this case, both recently and while the trial was going on and while Alec Murdoch was getting outed as a potential, and now we know convicted murderer is with us now.
01:20:10.200Will, thank you so much for being here.
01:20:11.820So this is, we knew that the defense was accusing Becky Hill, the court clerk, of allegedly tampering with the jury, and as I understand it, they have at least one juror who is saying, under oath, she said to us before Alec testified, watch his body language, and something to the effect of, be skeptical.
01:20:33.860And now you have other jurors who say, no, we didn't see that, that's not what we heard or saw.
01:20:40.760And I think you have two other jurors who say, we heard her say the thing about the body language, but not that second part.
01:20:47.020Now, all of this could be very problematic for the prosecution.
01:20:50.320The way I understand it is, if this judge says, the judge is going to have to find one of two things.
01:20:57.220There was interference with the jury, and he gets a new trial, or the standard is, there's interference with the jury.
01:21:06.280And if that's the legal standard, you have to prove it affected the outcome, Alec Murdoch is in a worse position.
01:21:11.820So the legal standard may decide how this comes down.
01:21:15.740But either way, what Becky Hill did or didn't do is at the heart of the case, and she and the juror are going to be facing off because she denies the charges.
01:21:24.340So what have we learned about Becky in the past couple of months that may negatively affect her going into this battle?
01:21:32.280Well, we've learned quite a bit, Megan, and thank you for having me, by the way.
01:21:38.640And I would point out, in addition to those allegations of jury tampering, there's also an allegation that's been put forward that Becky Hill conspired to have a juror that she believed to be favorable to Alec Murdoch thrown off of the panel.
01:21:52.820And in fact, there was a juror removed.
01:21:55.800Egg lady removed the day of the verdict.
01:21:58.180So it's a little more than just tampering.
01:22:00.520There's actually allegations of a conspiracy to manipulate the composition of the jury.
01:22:05.180But yeah, you outlined the standards very well.
01:22:08.600The state has to prove, or the state's alleging that Murdoch has to prove not only that there was tampering, but that it changed people's minds, that it impacted the verdict.
01:22:17.560Whereas the defense is saying, hey, all we've got to prove is that there was tampering.
01:22:21.320And what's really interesting about this case is, at least in South Carolina, there is no case law.
01:22:26.580There is no precedent that relates to the specific set of circumstances that we're dealing with.
01:22:31.640So former Chief Justice Jean Toll, who has been tasked with deciding whether or not Alec Murdoch gets a new trial, she's going to have a lot of discretion.
01:23:08.360She admitted plagiarizing excerpts of a story that was printed, I think it was a BBC reporter, that she lifted some copy from and included it in the book.
01:23:16.900And as you acknowledge, she's admitted it.
01:23:21.340But this is just really the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the bad news that Becky Hill has been dealing with over the last few months.
01:23:28.360And Megan, I think it's important to point out, Becky Hill is somebody that during this trial really stood out.
01:23:34.200All the media who covered this story, she had great relationships with everyone.
01:23:39.540She was someone that everyone really loved, got to know very well.
01:23:43.340And so to have all this come out, it's been very difficult for a lot of folks who really got to know her very well during the process.
01:23:50.420But they're basically alleging in these, and we'll get to it, that she's almost a serial criminal.
01:23:57.500I mean, that she's done many illegal acts.
01:24:00.740On the book, I'll just put a period at the end of that story.
01:24:03.160The co-author has since pulled the book and said he never wants to work with her or have anything more to do with her again.
01:24:08.040And we find out that one of my favorite pieces of the story is how did Becky only had to write like the prologue to the book that the co-author did all the labor on the book.
01:24:19.220And it turns out the way she plagiarized was a BBC reporter had inadvertently sent a draft of an article the BBC reporter was working on about the Murdoch case to Becky because the reporter's editor was named Becky, too.
01:25:03.540And all this started back in November.
01:25:05.720Our news outlet reported exclusively that Becky Hill's son, Colt Hill, had been arrested for one count of wiretapping.
01:25:13.840At the time, it was not revealed what that count of wiretapping was related to.
01:25:17.860We have since learned that it was part of an effort to keep Becky Hill abreast of two state ethics commission investigations that have been underway for the past few months into the book.
01:25:29.980There have been allegations that she abused her position of public trust to enrich herself, gaining access to materials for the book.
01:25:39.720There's also an investigation and allegations that she misappropriated taxpayer money and then lied about it to members of the county council down there in Colleton.
01:25:48.480So those are the two ethics complaints she's facing.
01:25:50.840But this week, we reported earlier this week, State Law Enforcement Division has confirmed a criminal investigation into those allegations of abusing her office for personal gain.
01:26:04.160Well, Megan, those are at the very heart of the defense's motion for a new trial, the allegation that she rigged the jury to benefit herself to sell copies of this book.
01:26:13.200Oh, my gosh. I mean, this is when you first heard it from the defense, you're like, no way.
01:26:18.020This is a desperate defense measure to try to undo this massive, terrible jury verdict against their client.
01:26:24.900But they've got it. I mean, they are they are very well positioned going into this thing.
01:26:29.960My my feeling is the the only way they lose this is if the judge chooses the legal standard that says and you have to show that it affected the outcome,
01:26:37.660in which case they might lose and Alec could stay in jail.
01:26:41.380If not, he's going to get a new trial.
01:26:43.400So the thing about that, the son is, as I understand, the son was like the chief tech guy for the court system and how it looks.
01:26:52.900And you tell me is she was being investigated for some of these ethical breaches that were suspected.
01:26:58.880And she said to the son or he said to her, let's wiretap the investigator who's looking at so that the son would find out all that they knew and then report it back to the mom.
01:27:10.860When it's actually excuse me, Megan, it's actually a little worse than that.
01:27:14.380The individual they were wiretapping is the county administrator or the deputy administrator, rather, who was on the phone with the investigators.
01:27:22.780And so one of the things that we've uncovered is in the weeks since all this started breaking, since Becky Hill was first aware that she was being investigated.
01:27:33.020We've also been able to confirm that in addition to her son being arrested, we're now dealing with the potential obstruction of justice related to this case because we've got two cell phones that he has allegedly destroyed.
01:27:44.840We've got two that were factory reset before they were turned over to investigators in an attempt to, I guess, scrub data off of them.
01:27:52.240And the cell phone that Becky Hill used during the trial that could have all sorts of evidence on it, all sorts of information is missing, is missing.
01:28:02.080She turned in a cell phone to investigators that was different than the one they specifically requested in their search warrant.
01:28:09.020So, you know, we're not only looking at these jury tampering allegations, corruption allegations, but now we've got potential obstruction of justice died to this as well.
01:28:17.560That is very convenient that that cell phone has gone missing.
01:28:20.780And yes, so I read your report and you guys should check out Fitz News if you want to read because the details are all there.
01:28:27.820They they had counter county issued cell phones because they work for the county and they transferred their phone numbers over to from their Samsung county issued phones to new iPhones.
01:28:37.980But then they still had the old phones and those phones have been scrubbed of all data.
01:29:12.040He destroys those two cell phones allegedly.
01:29:15.520And Becky Hill's cell phone goes missing the day that the jury tampering allegations were first leveled against her last September by Alec Murdoch's attorney.
01:29:24.240So, yeah, it's not only what's happened, but it's the timing of what's happened that could be very significant moving forward.
01:30:00.960I think the only way that that theory works, though, is that, you know, Becky Hill would have to be a very smooth criminal.
01:30:06.500And I think from what we've seen, she is not, for example, conducting all of the business for her book on a government email.
01:30:16.300I mean, literally using taxpayer time and taxpayer resources to write her book, to arrange interviews for her book, to promote and sell her book again, all on government time and using government resources.
01:30:30.160So I don't know if that's quite the criminal mastermind that could pull something like that off.
01:30:34.460But, Megan, I do want to make a point.
01:30:36.360You raised something there about the influence of the Murdochs.
01:30:39.420And what is so disappointing about all of this is, as I'm sure you know, South Carolina is not a state that has a reputation, a sterling reputation for dispensing justice, whether historically or in recent years.
01:30:50.900We're a state that's had a lot of issues with judicial branch corruption.
01:30:56.120There's a big push right now in our state legislature for judicial reform.
01:31:00.080And so this was a trial where we got it right and everyone saw us get it right.
01:31:06.420And so now to have to go back and revisit all these issues because of a clerk who's accused of these things, it really is disheartening because South Carolina needed this to be a clean trial.
01:31:17.320And I do think the jury got the right verdict, but now we've got to find out if they did it the right way.
01:31:22.120And it's increasingly looking as though they didn't.
01:31:33.400But you are you happen to have another role in the public eye.
01:31:36.720And that is you worked for a while for Nikki Haley when she was governor of South Carolina and came out publicly and said that you and she had had, quote, an inappropriate physical relationship, which she's denied back in 2010.
01:31:50.320So are you saying that when she was married, she had an extramarital affair with you?