The Megyn Kelly Show - Michelle Obama's Bitterness, and Bombshell Matthew Perry Allegations, with Jason Whitlock, Evita Duffy, Will Witt, and Will Folks ｜ Ep. 701

00:00:00.620 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:11.980 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday. We made it.

00:00:17.040 And we've got a packed show for you today, including an update in the crazy, crazy Alec

00:00:22.020 Murdoch case from a reporter who's been covering it closely. You know how he's pushing for a new

00:00:26.560 trial. I'm telling you, he's really well positioned to get it. New developments on that court clerk

00:00:33.680 who you may recall was accused of improperly trying to influence a juror. It's gotten so much

00:00:40.200 worse, so much worse. The stuff that came out about her while we were all celebrating Christmas

00:00:44.760 and the holidays. Okay, stand by. We'll get to it. Plus, some sad and disturbing new details

00:00:50.740 about Matthew Perry. But we're going to start today with a man who always seems to find himself

00:00:56.480 at the center of our cultural conversation. And this time, it's a feud that is blowing up the

00:01:02.580 internet and has a bit of a backstory. Jason Whitlock is the host of the Blaze TV's Fearless.

00:01:09.440 And he is. And we always love it when he joins us. Jason, welcome back to the show.

00:01:16.600 Megan, awesome to be here. Thanks for inviting.

00:01:19.120 I love how you upset people. I can relate to it to some extent, but it kind of amuses me because

00:01:26.960 I think they think they're going to upset you when they strike back at you. And I think I know you well

00:01:31.300 enough to realize, not it. No, that's not what's going to happen. But boy. Okay, I confess, I don't

00:01:38.020 really understand Stephen A. Smith. I don't really know Stephen A. Smith. You know me in sports. But I know

00:01:43.320 he's like a sports guy at ESPN. I've heard you describe him as the face of ESPN. So just set

00:01:49.400 the table for us on how this death feud got unleashed because, oh, he's mad. He's very mad at

00:01:56.600 you. Yeah. So let's say for lack of a better comparison, Stephen A. Smith is what Bill O'Reilly

00:02:06.820 was to Fox News, whatever, 10, 15 years ago. You know, biggest star, you know, the guy they

00:02:15.720 lean into the most. They, for a long time, paid the most. Right now, he's not the highest

00:02:21.120 paid guy there. But he's kind of the face of the sports media for ESPN. And he's written

00:02:27.780 a memoir called Straight Shooter. And at some point, three, four or five months ago, I decided

00:02:36.940 to read the memoir because we got in a little small scrap four or five months ago. He and

00:02:43.540 Shannon Sharpe, a Hall of Fame football player who have teamed up on Stephen A.'s morning talk

00:02:49.820 show, took some shots at someone that I didn't feel like they were being fair and taking those

00:02:57.360 shots. And so I kind of called him out. And Stephen A. went on his podcast and called me

00:03:04.560 Fat Bastard and, you know, said that he couldn't stand me. And at some point, he was going to

00:03:11.160 come after me. And at that point, I was like, well, man, Stephen A.'s got this book out. Let

00:03:18.080 me do a little homework on Stephen A. to make sure that, you know, if when he comes after me,

00:03:23.200 I'm just more prepared. And so I read his memoir and his memoir is farcical. And my initial thoughts

00:03:31.580 were after reading it, it was like, man, this is kind of like Barack Obama's dreams of my father,

00:03:37.840 that he's planning these little false fake narratives and making these points that are

00:03:44.460 trying to set him up for a political career. And then as I read deeper and deeper into the book,

00:03:50.560 and then I started like trying to fact check some of the things he was saying in the book,

00:03:54.700 I was like, oh, my God. I mean, there's a lot of fiction in this guy's memoir. There's a lot of

00:04:01.880 things he wrote and said about himself that just don't pass the smell test. And the way he again,

00:04:08.520 he's the face of sports media. He's the highest profile guy, highest profile sports pundit in

00:04:14.000 America. And he writes and talks about himself and his former athletic career as a high school

00:04:21.000 player and college player in such a farcical way that you're sitting there like he doesn't even know

00:04:27.180 sports at all. And and and it's like, how can a guy that doesn't understand sports on an elementary

00:04:34.780 level be the face of sports punditry and the biggest voice at ESPN? And so at some point, I wrote a

00:04:44.340 column in the last week or two about reviewing his book. And then I did a show reviewing his book and

00:04:53.440 put together highlight clips of just outright lies he's told on air about his narrative growing up and

00:05:01.900 as an athlete. And then he'd literally say one thing on ESPN there. And then he'd go on his podcast and

00:05:09.240 completely contradict himself. And so I just started like raising questions about the facts and the truth of his

00:05:17.420 memoir. And that triggered him this week to put together 45.

00:05:23.280 To put it mildly, to put it mildly, he was triggered. So he launched in his diatribe against you. He teased that he was

00:05:29.680 going to do it. He was enjoying the feud, I think. And we pulled just a little bit of his response together

00:05:35.560 here in SOT2.

00:05:38.020 He's a no good individual, probably the worst individual I've ever had the displeasure of ever

00:05:44.500 being associated with in any capacity. I even took the liberty of calling my pastor to apologize in

00:05:49.920 advance for what I'm going to say about that no good bastard. As a black man, knowing our history, 0.99

00:05:55.700 anything worse than a white supremacist. 0.97

00:06:04.440 That is until Jason Whitlock came along. I hate this bastard. 1.00

00:06:12.580 Not even far more than a little bit. 1.00

00:06:15.340 He is the worst human being any of you will ever meet. You get within a mile of his presence. 0.87

00:06:27.800 Wrap your arms around yourself to protect your soul.

00:06:33.660 He is king. 1.00

00:06:37.300 He is a devil. 1.00

00:06:40.000 The worst. 1.00

00:06:41.160 That's a lot.

00:06:45.940 So he's a maybe. He's a maybe on you. He's still making up his mind.

00:06:49.920 But I was wrapping my arms around myself, Jason, to protect myself from the evil you.

00:06:55.880 That's a...

00:06:56.720 Megan, I watched it and people on my team watched it.

00:07:00.900 And I just want to...

00:07:02.360 Again, you've been in the media for nearly as long as I have been.

00:07:06.080 And I've never seen anybody this high profile in the media that represents their network in that way

00:07:12.660 tape something that unprofessional and air it.

00:07:16.420 The profanity.

00:07:17.040 Totally agree.

00:07:18.740 I just...

00:07:19.580 And take something so personally.

00:07:22.020 We...

00:07:22.620 If I wanted to show you some of the nastiest hit pieces that have been written about me,

00:07:29.560 personal hit pieces, lie after lie... 0.87

00:07:32.920 I don't respond to this nonsense.

00:07:34.460 If you're a public figure, sadly.

00:07:36.760 But it's part of the...

00:07:37.880 It's part of it.

00:07:38.880 Some people are going to hate you.

00:07:40.660 That's how it goes.

00:07:41.960 If you're a true pro, you brush it off and you move on.

00:07:45.680 He's pulling a Meghan Markle.

00:07:47.540 Right?

00:07:47.860 He's like...

00:07:48.580 I can't believe how outrageous and like the ad hominem, you know, attacks on you seems to be his defense. 1.00

00:07:56.420 Like, Jason's a liar. 0.95

00:07:58.100 None of what he says is true. 0.98

00:07:59.280 Oh, and also he's...

00:08:00.120 He's...

00:08:00.600 They'll put it charitably.

00:08:01.320 He has a weight issue and isn't a nice man.

00:08:04.660 But in much more colorful terms.

00:08:07.260 The other thing or what frustrates Stephen A.

00:08:11.440 And a lot of people in the sports media is that I...

00:08:18.460 When I'm critical...

00:08:20.020 And again, I've...

00:08:21.140 My entire career, I have criticized people in the sports media.

00:08:26.440 My peers in the sports media.

00:08:29.120 There's no reason for you to know this.

00:08:31.380 But, you know, Mitch Albom for in the 90s, early 2000s, he was the biggest name in sports writing.

00:08:38.700 And he worked out of Detroit.

00:08:41.160 He works out of Detroit, Michigan.

00:08:42.640 And for a time I worked in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

00:08:44.860 We covered the same college basketball team or the Michigan's Fab Five.

00:08:50.560 He wrote a book about the Fab Five that was farcical.

00:08:54.280 He put in there that Chris Webber, the biggest star on the team, couldn't afford McDonald's.

00:09:01.080 You know, and this was back before athletes did this name, image, and likeness.

00:09:05.000 And he was saying Chris Webber couldn't afford McDonald's.

00:09:06.560 And I remember reviewing the book saying, hey, man, you know, are you kidding me?

00:09:13.200 These guys drive up to the arena every night in brand new SUVs.

00:09:17.680 I've been to Chris Webber's apartment.

00:09:19.860 It's plush.

00:09:20.940 It's laid out far better than mine.

00:09:22.980 How can you tell these farcical, you know, to promote some narrative that they're being exploited

00:09:28.980 when anybody with a brain can see, like, these guys were well compensated and well taken care of.

00:09:33.860 I trashed his Fab Five book.

00:09:35.800 Mitch Albom doesn't like me, but he didn't throw a baby-like tantrum because I was critical of his book.

00:09:43.300 You know, Joe Posnansky wrote a book, again, probably a name you're not familiar with.

00:09:47.740 He wrote a book about Joe Paterno in the middle of the Joe Paterno controversy at Penn State.

00:09:52.460 And I trashed his book because it was farcical.

00:09:56.880 Joe Posnansky was a colleague of mine for a long time at the Kansas City Star, someone I've known for a long time.

00:10:02.200 He was upset with me.

00:10:03.540 He didn't throw this baby-like tantrum that Stephen A. Smith did.

00:10:07.540 But where Stephen A. Smith, he wraps himself in a lot of his conversations as a black man because of too many people in the black journalism industry. 0.98

00:10:19.000 And just overall, if they get criticized, they love to say, well, the only reason why you're criticizing is because you're a racist.

00:10:24.840 And I take that away.

00:10:27.900 They can't argue that, you know, I'm a racist for criticizing Stephen A. Smith.

00:10:33.820 So he came up with a new category. 0.96

00:10:36.580 You know, I'm worse than a white supremacist.

00:10:39.500 How I criticize Stephen A. Smith. 0.99

00:10:41.940 That's worse than a white supremacist. 0.83

00:10:44.020 That's worse than being in the KKK. 0.98

00:10:46.760 Criticizing Stephen A. Smith is a crime beyond the pale and proves that I'm a devil and, you know, I'm a soul snatcher.

00:10:57.920 So, yeah, this is what he said.

00:10:59.780 He said about you. 0.93

00:11:01.860 He's the one who puts himself in front of white folks, not all white folks, not most white folks, but the white folk that, dare we say, may have a problem with black folks. 0.96

00:11:12.040 Adding, I cannot imagine, as a black man, knowing our history, anything worse than a white supremacist.

00:11:18.900 That is, until Jason Whitlock came along. 0.99

00:11:21.880 He's worse. 0.98

00:11:23.060 He's the worst and the most despicable line, no good, et cetera. 1.00

00:11:26.840 So worse than a white supremacist. 0.99

00:11:28.600 It is amazing to see that term busted out against a black man who is criticized. 0.83

00:11:34.220 You're saying, I don't believe some of these claims you're making in this memoir. 0.82

00:11:37.540 My opinion is you're lying.

00:11:39.840 And that, how does that make you a white supremacist?

00:11:41.760 I don't even follow the argument.

00:11:44.060 I'm holding Stephen A. Smith to the same standards that I held Mitch Albom to.

00:11:50.860 Again, great sports writer in the 80s, 90s, 2000s, white guy, Jewish. 0.89

00:11:56.380 Joe Posnansky, white guy, Polish, terrific.

00:12:01.280 Had a great reputation as a sports writer.

00:12:03.300 I'm holding Stephen A. Smith to the same standard as them.

00:12:06.780 That's racist.

00:12:07.820 And again, it's like, when you become accustomed to preferential treatment, equal treatment feels like oppression.

00:12:17.680 That's what's going on with Stephen A. Smith.

00:12:20.200 And a lot of black people in the media, these black elites, they don't want equal treatment. 0.95

00:12:29.200 They want preferential treatment. 0.99

00:12:30.860 And if you don't give them preferential treatment, and if I don't give them preferential treatment, we're evil and wicked.

00:12:38.780 And actually, it's just like a compliment.

00:12:41.740 In my view, it's like, I'm holding you to the same standard as everybody else.

00:12:44.980 I think you're the equal of a white person. 0.61

00:12:48.880 And so there would be no complaints when I've—

00:12:51.320 Yeah, I'm not going to coddle you.

00:12:53.020 Yeah.

00:12:53.900 And because I wasn't coddled.

00:12:56.020 And I'm not coddled.

00:12:57.320 You know, I get criticized a lot.

00:13:00.360 And, you know, I don't think it's a byproduct of racism or whatever.

00:13:06.080 Some of the criticism is legit.

00:13:07.520 Some of it I just blow off.

00:13:09.080 But I'm not going to whine and cry.

00:13:11.940 It's the price of leadership.

00:13:14.120 It's the price of a high-profile position.

00:13:17.120 Criticism is the background noise of success.

00:13:20.400 I've said that for years.

00:13:22.420 If no one's criticizing you, you're not having very much success.

00:13:26.420 You're not having much of an impact.

00:13:29.100 Many people have written, like, very nasty pieces about me.

00:13:32.700 And some I've gone on to become friends with.

00:13:34.640 You just—in this business, you can't take it seriously.

00:13:37.360 You can't take it personally.

00:13:38.420 That's what—you can't take it personally, even if you feel personally attacked.

00:13:42.040 I've said this before.

00:13:43.300 They're not—I think what Stephen should see is they're—you're not attacking Stephen A. Smith, the man.

00:13:49.200 Even though it's a memoir about his personal life, it's more Stephen A. Smith, the brand.

00:13:53.980 He's put himself out there.

00:13:55.140 He's become a brand.

00:13:55.900 And he wants that brand to be associated with truth-telling.

00:13:58.540 He said even in his response, I don't tell lies.

00:14:01.080 And you're saying, I got questions about whether you do.

00:14:03.960 And as a public figure, if you can divide those two things, you can forgive and forget and not obsess over somebody's personal slights toward you.

00:14:12.380 But all of this leads me, Jason, to—it's a perfect segue to something Michelle Obama said.

00:14:18.160 And my team watched this whole interview she gave to this popular podcast host.

00:14:22.460 And some of it we played the day after it hit.

00:14:26.060 And this quote I said—I knew you were coming on on Friday.

00:14:28.900 I said, let's save that.

00:14:29.720 I'd love to hear what Jason thinks about this.

00:14:32.060 So the question to her from Jay Shetty, who was interviewing her, was,

00:14:36.240 You've said the White House doesn't change you.

00:14:39.260 It reveals more of who you are.

00:14:42.720 What did it reveal to you about yourself?

00:14:45.680 And then a couple of minutes into her answer was this part.

00:14:50.280 Listen.

00:14:51.600 I mean, the bars are different for people in life.

00:14:56.240 That I've learned.

00:14:58.180 This is the thing about being another. 0.99

00:15:01.440 You learn how to be excellent all the time because you can't be less than.

00:15:07.740 Other people can.

00:15:09.120 Other people can be indicted a bunch of times and still run for office. 0.77

00:15:14.500 Black man can't. 1.00

00:15:15.680 You just learn to be good. 0.95

00:15:18.180 And in the end, you benefit from that extra resilience.

00:15:23.660 You know, you could be mad about it, but it also makes you more equipped, right?

00:15:30.000 But it's still not fair.

00:15:33.520 That's what she learned from her husband becoming president of the United States

00:15:39.600 and her serving eight years as first lady, 0.99

00:15:42.660 becoming literally one of, if not the most popular figure in America.

00:15:49.000 It's just not fair.

00:15:50.380 It's not fair being a Black person in America. 1.00

00:15:52.820 A lot of people, leftists, global elites, for Black people, they've set it up that you don't have to take on the responsibility, 0.83

00:16:13.480 all the burdens and the responsibilities that come along with leadership.

00:16:19.640 And you're immune to that.

00:16:21.200 And so in Michelle Obama's mind, she has so little perspective outside of herself.

00:16:27.080 It's like, I listen to this and go, does she not understand politics?

00:16:34.220 Does she not understand the history of American politics?

00:16:36.920 Does she not understand that Abraham Lincoln was assassinated for decisions he made in the presidency?

00:16:44.000 Did she not, JFK assassinated for the decisions he made as president?

00:16:49.000 And so politics is a contact sport that sometimes spills over into violence.

00:16:58.380 And take her friends, to some degree, the Clintons. 0.97

00:17:04.200 There are people that say really nasty, vicious things about the Clinton,

00:17:10.200 accuse them of having assassinated a bunch of people.

00:17:13.500 It's like, did they know the endeavor they were getting into?

00:17:19.000 And again, I'm not, I don't know what the truth is about the Clintons,

00:17:22.080 but I'm just saying, Barack Obama was not treated any more harshly than any of the previous presidents.

00:17:31.960 I mean, to the contrary, wouldn't you say to the contrary?

00:17:34.980 She says, the bars are just different for people in life.

00:17:37.940 Right.

00:17:38.380 The bar was very different for your husband.

00:17:40.780 Very different.

00:17:41.440 And I'm sure he got into Harvard just based purely on his intellect, right?

00:17:46.000 And Harvard Law School.

00:17:47.760 And he was ushered into the presidency with about two minutes of public service behind him.

00:17:53.180 Right.

00:17:53.640 Like a stint, short stint in the U.S. Senate after being a local Illinois lawmaker.

00:17:59.080 And he was lauded like he was the second coming, as was she.

00:18:04.300 But she's still bitter.

00:18:06.200 She's still bitter about her circumstances, those of her husband, and this country.

00:18:12.660 Take an example just for her as a woman. 0.86

00:18:17.140 And I don't want to come off as sexist, but just her as a woman.

00:18:21.040 What woman wouldn't want to spend eight years on the cover of virtually every magazine being portrayed as one of the most glamorous, sexy, you know, most beautiful women in the world? 1.00

00:18:36.900 And I'm just sorry, objectively, you know, there's a standard lowering for us to sell that myth that, like, this is one of the 20 most beautiful women on the planet.

00:18:50.180 Really?

00:18:50.780 And then compare her treatment to Melania Trump, who—and so I don't care what your taste is. 1.00

00:19:02.960 Maybe you prefer, Michelle, maybe you like a taller woman or, you know, a woman with broad shoulders or whatever. 0.99

00:19:09.000 I'm just—maybe she's your cup of tea.

00:19:11.140 But Melania Trump, I don't think, was on the cover of any magazine.

00:19:14.840 It wasn't allowed for her to be celebrated, her beauty to be celebrated.

00:19:20.280 And so who's—what standards were lowered for Melania Trump? 1.00

00:19:25.480 And what standards were elevated for Michelle Obama?

00:19:30.560 I mean, just as a woman, and I just don't know many women, particularly heterosexual women, who wouldn't want to be celebrated the way Michelle Obama has been celebrated since 2007.

00:19:44.840 2007, 2008, when they went into office.

00:19:48.360 And I think you can objectively say, as it relates to beauty and traditional standards of beauty, they lowered the standards to sell this woman as one of the most beautiful first ladies and one of the most beautiful women on the planet.

00:20:02.420 It's—she lives off in a fantasy world.

00:20:05.560 She thinks every difficulty she's had in her life is attributable to race.

00:20:10.100 She just has no appreciation for the fact that many of us grew up without a silver spoon and had some real challenges in getting ahead.

00:20:19.340 And just thank God that we were born in a country where it's even possible.

00:20:23.920 It doesn't have to be easy.

00:20:25.740 It's not easy, even for those of us with white skin.

00:20:29.320 Michelle, it's not.

00:20:30.820 But she cannot get past it.

00:20:33.000 And by the way, her comment about other people can be indicted and still run for office, but black men can't, tell it to Marion Barry. 0.78

00:20:40.240 He served time for—it was a crack or cocaine.

00:20:43.720 And then they reelected him as mayor of D.C.

00:20:46.060 It's possible no matter what your race, especially in Trump's case where everyone knows these are political persecutions.

00:20:53.280 This person may come out and run for president.

00:20:55.540 I mean, there's a lot of speculation she gave this interview as a toe in the water, like, I'm thinking about it.

00:21:01.900 I see the weakness of this guy we've chosen right now.

00:21:05.760 Is there any chance you think she's doing that, Jason?

00:21:08.940 And if she did, could she win?

00:21:12.220 I certainly think she's running for the presidency and has been for a long time. 0.99

00:21:21.220 Could she win?

00:21:22.820 Yes.

00:21:23.540 Anything's possible.

00:21:24.580 Joe Biden won and got some 80 million votes.

00:21:28.760 And when you basically, you know, this whole mail-in voting system that they've instituted allows anything to be a possibility.

00:21:40.100 So, yeah, I think she's running for president. 1.00

00:21:43.540 I think that her life and the narrative she's bought into, I think she feels like she's entitled to that power.

00:21:51.720 You know, I've watched some documentaries and I've read some books about her and Barack and just, you know, did she go to Yale or Harvard as well?

00:22:02.420 Yeah, she went to Harvard.

00:22:03.220 She went to Princeton undergrad and Harvard Law School.

00:22:06.860 Yeah, there you go.

00:22:07.500 And they lowered some standards to let her in. 0.93

00:22:11.220 You know, she had some classmates who went to that predominantly white high school she went to in the Chicago area who couldn't get into Ivy League schools.

00:22:20.460 And she got in to some and then struggled at Princeton and switched up to a sociology major and all this other stuff because she just couldn't handle it.

00:22:32.180 Uh, she's lived such a life of entitlement and privilege herself. 0.74

00:22:38.500 And again, she loves to talk about white privilege.

00:22:41.560 Sometimes, though, Megan, I go back and forth.

00:22:45.980 Does she really believe it or is it just an overall political strategy adopted by the left?

00:22:53.320 She mentions it all the time.

00:22:55.680 I think it's truly heartfelt.

00:22:57.840 Here's another one where she talked about how people in power, unspecified people. 0.55

00:23:02.300 But I think we're talking about Trump here.

00:23:03.940 We're definitely not talking about Barack and Democrats divide us.

00:23:08.480 They divide us unfairly, unjustly.

00:23:11.360 Take a listen.

00:23:12.140 Sat 9.

00:23:13.060 We're all human.

00:23:14.200 We're so alike.

00:23:15.380 I don't care about skin color or how we pray or how we love.

00:23:20.500 We're all the same.

00:23:22.960 What keeps us from seeing that is fear, right?

00:23:26.780 I don't know you.

00:23:28.060 You're different.

00:23:29.000 So I got to be afraid of you.

00:23:30.700 And I can't.

00:23:31.660 I have to make sure you don't come into my space.

00:23:35.140 And then we live in a culture where people with power prey on fear to get more power.

00:23:40.820 I want to make you all afraid of each other.

00:23:42.820 And then I can come in and rule it all, right?

00:23:49.180 I'm sorry, but her husband was the one, I mean, more than any other prior to him,

00:23:56.640 I grant that Trump has been divisive in some ways.

00:23:59.900 But her husband was the first one to cross lines we hadn't seen crossed from the Oval Office while sitting there.

00:24:07.780 If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon, weighing in on legal cases involving always a black alleged victim. 0.96

00:24:15.240 I mean, and then, you know, a white alleged perpetrator and stoking, stoking those racial fires.

00:24:21.420 And the Democrats, too, the Democrats haven't missed a chance to exploit this narrative.

00:24:27.120 You know, race relations were doing a lot better.

00:24:29.240 And then they saw an opportunity.

00:24:31.440 I just think, like, the tone-deaf nature of those comments is apparent.

00:24:37.300 That's why I go back to, I'm not sure she believes any of this.

00:24:43.560 I just think she understands the political power that can be won from promoting what she's promoting.

00:24:50.340 Because it is, what she's saying is laughable. 0.79

00:24:55.160 Joe Biden is, from his bully pulpit of the presidency, is promoting, like, the biggest threat to America is white supremacy. 0.96

00:25:04.380 Yes.

00:25:04.980 And Trump, the way they talk about Trump and Trump supporters.

00:25:07.940 And she says, her line is, oh, these guys, I want to make you all afraid of each other.

00:25:13.580 That's literally what the sitting president of the United States does all the time.

00:25:17.020 They're going to put you back in chains.

00:25:19.960 If I'm not voted president, you'll be back in chains and they'll reinstitute slavery. 0.53

00:25:25.680 If that's not fear, telling you all, and the entire strategy.

00:25:31.660 But it's even more than just fear.

00:25:33.500 In terms of taking the brand, conservative or right-wing, they've changed those into buzzwords that basically equate to evil and racist.

00:25:45.400 That's what they, when they say conservative or right-wing, they're calling you evil and racist.

00:25:51.340 And they've programmed everyone to think that. 0.98

00:25:54.400 And so if you say MAGA supporter, if you support Donald Trump, now all of a sudden you're a member of the KKK and you're racist and you want to put black people down. 0.93

00:26:06.240 There's just no proof of that.

00:26:08.360 And, you know, moving here to Tennessee, as I did three years ago, I have a lot more exposure to people that are out of the closet Trump supporters.

00:26:19.100 And I'm just sorry.

00:26:21.720 They're not racist.

00:26:24.760 And I can remember one of the first weekends I was here, when I moved here in 2020, a buddy of mine owns several nightclubs in the socializing districts of Nashville.

00:26:37.260 And one of them is right across the street from, you know, my apartment or whatever.

00:26:42.420 And his doorman had a Confederate flag tattoo.

00:26:47.480 And, you know, first time I walk over, I'm like, man, Confederate flag tattoo.

00:26:51.840 The guy didn't know me from Adam, but he and I had one of the greatest conversations about sports and other things.

00:27:02.940 And it's one of those deals where, and again, I'm not sitting here defending the Confederate flag, but the Confederate flag for people down here in the South, I've just had the experience.

00:27:14.860 It just doesn't mean what you think it means.

00:27:17.160 And it's, but again, they've branded people from the South and everybody that they've put up all these.

00:27:25.820 If you vote for Trump, if you're Republican, if you're conservative, and now they're even going to support, if you're Christian, you're a white supremacist, you're a white nationalist, you're a Christian national. 0.61

00:27:35.800 That's what they're saying.

00:27:36.560 They've just demonized everything and told everybody to be afraid of those people.

00:27:40.880 And, and I'm just sorry.

00:27:43.720 I sit here and see it with my own eyes, black people and white people getting along with each other, despite whatever political differences they may have.

00:27:53.940 It's, but they sell it and some people buy it.

00:27:57.800 It's amazing.

00:27:58.740 What did you learn from, you know, your time in the White House?

00:28:01.280 Okay.

00:28:01.920 I don't care about skin color or how we pray or how we love.

00:28:04.800 We're all the same.

00:28:05.740 What keeps us from seeing that is fear, right?

00:28:09.100 I don't know you.

00:28:10.180 You're different.

00:28:11.100 She's very clearly talking about how white people view black people.

00:28:15.760 She's not talking about how black people view white people here.

00:28:18.360 So I got to be, if you look at the larger context of her remarks, so I've got to be afraid of you and I, and I have to make sure you don't come into my space.

00:28:27.760 Okay.

00:28:28.520 If anything, what we're seeing on college campuses and elsewhere right now are black affinity groups or Hispanic affinity groups into which whites are not welcome.

00:28:35.960 Just talk to the mayor of Boston on her holiday party.

00:28:39.500 Um, and then we live in a culture where people with power prey on fear to get more power. 0.81

00:28:46.480 Again, she's talking about very clearly demonization of black people by white people so they can get more power. 0.70

00:28:51.380 She's talking about Trump. 0.95

00:28:52.540 That's what she's clearly referring to.

00:28:54.760 I want to make you all afraid of each other.

00:28:56.880 How does he do that?

00:28:58.420 How, how it's, she really needs to take a hard look at the democratic party, which is obsessed with skin color, obsessed right now. 0.91

00:29:05.460 And to your point about the white supremacy, um, there literally was just, we have it, that's in a different packet, but Johns Hopkins just tweeted out their head of diversity.

00:29:16.120 Uh, the vice president of diversity just tweeted out this thing defining white supremacy.

00:29:21.600 I have it here and saying, here it is their diversity word of the month, Johns Hopkins hospital, one of, if not the most respected hospital in the nation, it's Hopkins and Cleveland clinic.

00:29:34.280 And maybe one or two others, um, their diversity word of the month is privilege.

00:29:38.000 Privilege is a set of unearned benefits given to people who are in a specific social group in the United States.

00:29:46.220 Privilege is granted to people who have membership in one or more of these social identity groups.

00:29:50.780 Just have to have membership in one of them to have privilege.

00:29:54.260 Okay.

00:29:54.760 And they're talking about white privilege.

00:29:58.120 If you're white.

00:29:59.740 Okay.

00:30:00.180 But you have it too, even though you're black, because you're a man, because if your man parts, you have privilege. 0.90

00:30:05.820 If you're Christian, double, double, you got double. 1.00

00:30:10.180 So do I, because I'm white and I'm Christian.

00:30:12.240 Both of us have double privilege.

00:30:13.920 Wait for the next one.

00:30:15.040 This encompasses us too.

00:30:17.200 Middle aged people.

00:30:20.900 If you hit 40, you have privilege, unearned benefits given to you because you're in a specific

00:30:30.460 social group.

00:30:32.080 If you're able bodied, if you're middle or quote,

00:30:35.820 owning class.

00:30:37.800 So I guess if you have a home, if you've worked hard, you made enough to own something,

00:30:42.220 a car, a home, you're privileged, according to the Johns Hopkins hospital.

00:30:46.120 And of course, if you speak English, this got so much backlash after Sherita Hill Golden

00:30:51.960 tweeted it out that she was forced to take it down.

00:30:56.040 Johns Hopkins took it down.

00:30:57.260 And she said on reflection, I regret this.

00:31:01.740 It was overly simplistic and poorly worded, poorly worded, as in every word was nonsense 0.90

00:31:08.680 and offensive and racist and sexist. 0.76

00:31:10.600 Yeah, it was poorly worded in that way.

00:31:13.080 Her entire job, the diversity, whatever, director, chair, whatever, vice president, 1.00

00:31:20.260 whoever would take that job is basically raising their hand and saying, hey, I'm so stupid. 1.00

00:31:29.340 I'm unqualified to do anything else. 0.99

00:31:31.320 And so I'm going to elect myself or take this position that I'm supposed to manage how everybody

00:31:37.620 else sees the world.

00:31:39.620 And I'm going to manage how white people feel about themselves. 0.97

00:31:44.300 What an arrogance and an incompetence you would have to have to even want that job. 0.98

00:31:52.760 Look, they are, it's, it's a mind F-U-C-K that they're doing to all of us that, that, you

00:32:01.300 know, it's just, it's, it would be like me giving speeches every day about the proper diet

00:32:08.320 to make you think I'm a dietitian.

00:32:10.620 And, and, and everybody would be looking at me like, this dude's a dietitian?

00:32:16.880 Are you sure?

00:32:18.080 I just saw him leave McDonald's.

00:32:19.980 Are you sure he's a dietitian?

00:32:21.820 But if I keep saying it, you go, yeah, he's a dietitian.

00:32:25.900 Him and Ronald McDonald's are best friends, but he's a dietitian.

00:32:29.020 And that's what they're basically doing and saying their mind screwing all of us.

00:32:35.300 And they're instilling in everybody, everybody, a sense of entitlement.

00:32:41.040 You've been wrong.

00:32:42.540 Oh my God.

00:32:43.980 You know, you don't have two parents in your home.

00:32:46.920 You've been wrong.

00:32:48.100 And so you don't have that privilege.

00:32:49.400 And so the government and the world owes you something.

00:32:53.420 And it's, they're instilling a mindset that lays the foundation for communism and, and more

00:33:02.240 government dependency to take over. 0.94

00:33:05.300 Everybody's running around saying, I got screwed. 0.96

00:33:08.380 And I'm not a man. 0.98

00:33:10.320 I'm not a Christian.

00:33:12.240 I'm not this.

00:33:13.420 I'm not that.

00:33:14.100 I'm not white. 0.98

00:33:14.900 I'm not, but I got screwed. 0.98

00:33:16.920 This world owes me something. 0.94

00:33:20.060 They've, I keep saying this.

00:33:22.580 I talked about it at Charlie Kirk's event out in Phoenix, turning point about like, men, 0.64

00:33:27.780 we have to stop apologizing for America's history and all of racial history, quit apologizing 0.87

00:33:36.420 for, uh, as it relates to gender and this whole sexism thing, quit apologizing for it

00:33:42.640 because America's history as relates to racism and sexism, I'll stack our history of improvement and of granting freedom, uh, up against any country on the planet, the history of the planet, quit apologizing that the, the, our history

00:34:01.300 history should inspire gratitude, uh, if you fully understand it and if it's unpacked properly, but they've used all this to convince men that man, your history is terrible and you better bend over backwards and, uh, surrender leadership, surrender 0.97

00:34:21.640 everything to correct the mistakes in the past, because, you know, if it wasn't for the past, uh, Michelle Obama would probably be the biggest star in the NBA and she'd be making $40 million a year, but you know, the past that that's why women aren't great basketball players like men because of all the sexism and, and it's the whole argument is just stupid.

00:34:44.680 And if we quit apologizing and if we quit apologizing and if we quit apologizing and really understand our history, so you have the knowledge, so you don't even bat an eye when they start telling you about what you owe because of the past, this entire people that didn't do the suffering are old because a hundred years ago, someone suffered and, and, you know, I even disagree with the whole suffering part, particularly as it relates to, you know, sexism

00:35:14.580 or whatever, or whatever. It's like, Hey man, you know, things were different in the 17 and 1800s that, you know, how much work it took to clean a house in the set before a vacuum cleaner and all this stuff we got, you know, that was a real job.

00:35:30.160 I mean, and not that it's not a real job now, but it's like, man, it took a lot to keep a house clean. And, and, and people, kids were seen as a gift and a blessing because it's like, man, the more kids we got,

00:35:44.040 the more fun we're going to have, the more people that can help our family, uh, work together and, and, and benefit from, from having more kids. We'll have more people to be farmhands, more people to help clean the house, all the, and, and now we see kids as a burden and it's like, Oh man, you get knocked up. You should consider an abortion because that kid's a burden.

00:36:05.880 And, and, and, or once they're here, they just stick them in front of the iPad and don't, don't actually do the parenting. Um, I agree with you. And especially on the stuff that you said about what we're doing to men.

00:36:15.900 I agree with, because we're trying to rob men of their swagger and that's a sin. Like we need men with swagger. It's attractive. It's kind of necessary for the continuation of the human race.

00:36:27.920 And it, we shouldn't be trying to ruin their swagger. Men are risk takers. And that's, and again, not to say that women aren't, but take the Wright brothers that invented flying. 0.98

00:36:40.100 They were risking their lives. And, and, and you go, you go to that, the aviation museum down in Washington and actually just look at the Wright exhibit. It's stunning.

00:36:48.080 These were ballsy dudes. Yes. And that's our role. And we used to understand like, man, we're going to do some things that may cost us our lives, may shorten our lives, but it's going to advance the country, make things better for my wife, kids, the whole nation, the next generation of people.

00:37:07.700 Again, I try to explain, like these people in the civil war, they knew they were potentially very likely going to die or be seriously injured, but they were doing it for other people to benefit black people to benefit. 0.60

00:37:23.840 And, uh, all these roughnecks that helped build skyscrapers and the injury rate and death rate for roughnecks was astronomical. 0.98

00:37:33.060 And women weren't saying, Hey, I want to be a roughneck. Uh, cause that's, they got to protect their womb. They got to protect their children. They're just, they're wired differently. 1.00

00:37:44.640 And, and it's not their role to go out and be a roughneck and risk your life to invent airplanes and risk your life doing that.

00:37:53.340 And that's not diminishing them, but we're, you know, men are supposed to take bullets to be quite honest with you in protection of freedom,

00:38:02.120 in protection of fairness and justice. You know, we need to be willing to sacrifice our lives. I'm not asking women to do that because I don't think that's their role. 1.00

00:38:11.760 And, and so the reason why men have dominated inventions and all this other stuff is because, you know, that's what we're supposed to do.

00:38:22.200 And it's, that's not, that does not diminish women because I'm just telling y'all, y'all's womb is so incredibly valuable. 0.97

00:38:31.300 I try to explain to people, you only, and I'm sorry for speaking this, uh, rawly, but you only need one penis to replenish the earth. 0.88

00:38:40.740 You need a lot of wombs. 1.00

00:38:42.220 And we used to recognize that. That's why men would go off to war and we'd be like, ah, there's a bunch of them's going to die, but at least we'll have these wombs back here and our kids will be safe. 1.00

00:38:52.720 And, but we don't have a priority. We're so mentally ill. We don't prioritize our kids.

00:39:00.980 And you're right about that. I mean, I'll say, look, obviously I'm a working woman and I love it. And I love the chance that I have to do it.

00:39:09.780 And I look up to people like Marie Curie and what she did and invented these brilliant women who have come before me, especially at a time when it was tougher to, to be, you know, recognized or ascend in one's field.

00:39:21.680 But what we've done now is overcorrected. Like we always do. And we've, we've gotten this place where we demonize.

00:39:27.000 I actually said to my daughter's school, I said, you know what you should do in addition to like the career night where you parade in all these Harvard grads and have them say, you know, these women, because she goes to an all-girls school and have them say, look, this is what I, you should have a night where you bring in stay-at-home moms who talk about that life choice and how much they love it and how well it's worked out and why they chose it.

00:39:47.880 And make sure these girls see that that's a totally great choice. It depends on the person. That's it.

00:39:53.620 It depends on what we got in this place where we think that's sort of anti-feminist now, or there's some sort of diminishment in the, in the women who choose to stay at home, which is, it's, it's a lie. 0.99

00:40:02.760 It's yet another lie that's being sold to young women. 0.93

00:40:06.260 And I said, also bring in the C students, bring in the people who went to the third tier and fourth tier colleges who wound up doing great at their life.

00:40:14.360 You don't have to go to fricking Harvard where they want to make you into an anti-Semite for four years and $400,000, like do something else.

00:40:22.340 All right, I got to squeeze in a quick break because my team's yelling at me and then we're going to come right back with Jason Whitlock. 0.76

00:40:27.160 Don't go away.

00:40:31.720 All right.

00:40:32.180 So I haven't touched the Aaron Rodgers, Jimmy Kimmel feud in detail since it got updated.

00:40:37.360 So I thought you'd be a good person to ask about this is this, is this sports person.

00:40:40.840 Now he's QB for the jets, except he only played for like two minutes before he got hurt.

00:40:46.140 That was sad.

00:40:46.700 Won't won't.

00:40:47.240 And he's got some blood feud going on with Jimmy Kimmel.

00:40:49.920 They have the same relationship as you and Stephen A.

00:40:52.320 And Aaron Rodgers went on, is it McAfee, the Pat McAfee show?

00:40:58.200 Yeah.

00:40:58.500 And he's, he's a sports guy.

00:41:00.440 And Aaron Rodgers goes on this show, I guess, or was at least going on weekly and said about Kimmel that Kimmel was among those really hoping the Epstein list did not come out.

00:41:11.520 Kimmel went on his show this past Monday and said the following in response.

00:41:15.960 And it did come out.

00:41:17.520 And of course, my name wasn't on it and isn't on it and won't ever be on.

00:41:21.340 I don't know Jeffrey Epstein.

00:41:22.640 I've never met Jeffrey Epstein.

00:41:24.440 I'm not on a list.

00:41:25.460 I was not on a plane or an island or anything ever.

00:41:28.060 And I suggested that if Aaron wanted to make false and very damaging statements like that, that we should do it in court.

00:41:36.040 He believes himself to be an extraordinary being.

00:41:38.400 He genuinely thinks that because God gave him the ability to throw a ball, he's smarter than everyone else.

00:41:43.500 We learned during COVID, somehow he knows more about science than scientists.

00:41:47.320 A guy who went to community college, then got into Cal on a football scholarship and didn't graduate.

00:41:53.500 Someone who never spent a minute studying the human body is an expert in the field of immunology.

00:41:58.800 Aaron got two A's on his report card.

00:42:00.760 They were both in the word Aaron's.

00:42:02.280 And when I do get something wrong, which happens on rare occasions, you know what I do?

00:42:06.380 I apologize for it, which is what Aaron Rodgers should do, which is what a decent person would do.

00:42:11.820 But I bet he won't.

00:42:13.480 OK, here's the last piece of sound.

00:42:15.500 Aaron Rodgers then goes back on The McAfee Show on Tuesday, the night after that, and responded as follows.

00:42:22.700 In the end, to sum this up, listen, I still haven't popped a bottle because there hasn't been any list that's come out.

00:42:30.300 And I'm glad that Jimmy is not on the list.

00:42:35.180 I really am.

00:42:36.420 And I don't think he's the P word.

00:42:44.000 And, you know, I think it's impressive that a man who went to Arizona State and has 10 joke writers can read off a prompter.

00:42:56.660 So, you know, my education at JUCO and my three semesters at Cal that I'm very proud of has worked out for me.

00:43:04.840 And I'm glad to see it's worked out for him as well.

00:43:06.480 So I wish him the best. 0.99

00:43:08.220 Again, I don't give a shit what he says about me. 0.95

00:43:11.520 But as long as he understands what I actually said and that I'm not accusing him of being on a list, then I'm all for moving forward. 0.95

00:43:21.160 So what's what's happening here?

00:43:24.580 Well, Jimmy Kimmel has moved the goalposts and moved the conversation to a place that's dishonest.

00:43:32.400 If you watch Aaron Rodgers' full explanation and if you understand the background, he was not the joke that he told on the Pat McAfee show originally.

00:43:43.360 It wasn't about Jimmy Kimmel being a pedophile.

00:43:49.080 It was about Jimmy Kimmel rooting for and hoping the Epstein list never came out and that there's a backstory that Jimmy Kimmel and Aaron Rodgers or Kimmel had cracked some jokes about Aaron Rodgers even having an interest in the Epstein list.

00:44:07.640 Because let's say six, seven months ago, maybe even as long ago as a year ago, Aaron Rodgers speculated that, hey, the Epstein list is going to come out and blah, blah, blah.

00:44:18.340 And Jimmy Kimmel at that time started cracking jokes about Aaron Rodgers being a tinfoil hat guy, about this Epstein list.

00:44:25.800 And so Rodgers' original comment or joke that started this latest round of a feud was about, yeah, Jimmy, he was basically saying, I told you the Epstein list was going to come out.

00:44:37.920 And, and, you know, Jimmy Kimmel was hoping that it didn't.

00:44:42.100 Jimmy Kimmel then goes and does a monologue and says, oh, he's, he's saying that I was going to be on the Epstein list.

00:44:49.060 He knows that's untrue, but he knows if he can get everyone talking about that and he can play the victim, then he can put some pressure on ESPN and Aaron Rodgers.

00:45:00.460 Because again, Kimmel, ABC, ESPN, they're both owned by Disney.

00:45:07.820 They're all in the same family.

00:45:09.220 And Jimmy Kimmel sitting there saying, why is some NFL player on a Disney platform taking shots at me?

00:45:18.440 Well, I got a way to shut him up.

00:45:20.220 I got a way to force ESPN's hand.

00:45:22.700 I'll pretend like the guy called me a pedophile.

00:45:27.120 And so the next thing you know, Pat McAfee, the next day announces Aaron Rodgers isn't going to be on the show anymore.

00:45:35.400 And he puts out a statement saying that it's, I made this decision and I don't want to be in these controversies or whatever.

00:45:42.440 And then Pat McAfee took so much heat for making that announcement that yesterday he had Aaron Rodgers on the show just to talk sports.

00:45:54.060 The day after he said he's never coming back. 0.86

00:45:56.500 It was ridiculous. 0.69

00:45:57.680 All right. 0.71

00:45:57.860 I got to ask you quickly.

00:45:58.860 ESPN is in the news today for getting Emmy awards that were attained under false pretenses.

00:46:07.720 Apparently the rule is if you work on a show like SportsCenter and you're just your talent on SportsCenter, you can't get the individual Emmy if the show SportsCenter is getting one.

00:46:18.100 You could get an individual Emmy in some other categories, but you can't get it for like best show, even if you're one of the anchors of it.

00:46:24.320 And so ESPN decided that it'd be a great idea if like Megan Kelly were an anchor of SportsCenter to submit a fake like Michael Kelly name, get the award with my initials and then like scrub the trophy and then give it to me, Megan Kelly.

00:46:44.320 So I could say I won an Emmy and it's not even clear whether the talent knew they were being given fake Emmys. 0.85

00:46:50.400 But this to me, Jason, underscores how pathetic and feeble minded the people who would submit like these executives at ESPN are. 0.99

00:46:58.900 How pathetic that you're that obsessed with those stupid little fake gold trophies that you would jump through these hoops in order to give fake rewards to your talent. 0.99

00:47:08.160 I mean, that was one of the things that was great about Roger in the entire time Fox News from when it was born to when he died. 1.00

00:47:13.260 And I'm sure to present day, he never submitted it or anybody for a reward for an award because he knew it's a bullshit, corrupt industry. 0.99

00:47:20.980 We don't want any part of it. 0.98

00:47:22.060 Roger Ells was a brilliant, smart man ahead of his time in the newspaper industry.

00:47:30.840 You know, when I started in the 1990s and all the way through probably about 2010, there was an obsession with in the sports world with these APSE awards.

00:47:41.480 And there's obsessions with Pulitzer Prizes and all this other stuff.

00:47:45.320 And it actually works to corrupt journalism.

00:47:49.240 You start editors start planning all year how we can win a Pulitzer, how we can win an APSE.

00:47:55.240 That's the Associated Press Sports Editors Awards.

00:47:57.500 And so you'd put out these bogus narrative driven stories to win these awards.

00:48:05.440 And many of these stories avoided truth.

00:48:08.520 They avoided hard truths.

00:48:10.320 They were off narrative.

00:48:11.760 That's how you won those awards.

00:48:13.660 And that's how people got bonuses and how you got to promote the right people as the best in the business rather than promoting the people who actually were the best in the business.

00:48:24.200 And Roger Ells is smart enough to see, like, man, if I get into this awards culture, it's baiting my talent to avoid truth and to say what's popular.

00:48:37.740 And he knew we didn't want to be a club, a member of the clubs that would have us as members.

00:48:43.220 He knew it.

00:48:43.880 He was right.

00:48:45.280 Washington Post and New York Times both won Pulitzer Prizes for their fake Russiagate reporting.

00:48:50.540 That tells you everything you need to know.

00:48:51.700 Jason Whitlock, you're the best.

00:48:52.800 Let's talk again soon.

00:48:54.180 All the best to you.

00:48:55.460 Thank you, Megan.

00:49:00.440 While we've spent a lot of time discussing politics this week, there were a lot of cultural headlines that we've been wanting to dive into, including new accusations against the late Matthew Perry that shed a very different light on the man we thought we knew.

00:49:16.020 Joining me now, Will Witt, author of the recently released book, Do Not Comply, and Evita Duffy Alfonso.

00:49:22.920 She's a writer for The Federalist.

00:49:24.920 Will and Evita, great to have you both back.

00:49:26.900 So this is very sad to me, and I really don't have any wish to disparage the man's legacy, but facts are facts, and we should know exactly who it is we're lauding.

00:49:37.800 And since we did laud him on the show, I felt the need to round back to this.

00:49:40.680 One of the things he said was that he wanted, more than anything, his legacy to not be friends, but to be the fact that he got sober and helped other people get sober.

00:49:49.800 And the reporting that has now come out, Us Weekly is one thing, with all due respect to Us Weekly, but they have a bombshell cover report this week.

00:49:59.840 But Daily Mail, I'm telling you, Daily Mail, they're pretty vigorous about their fact-checking.

00:50:06.420 They're more salacious in the topics they choose, but they do not want to get sued, and they're pretty careful about their fact-reporting, irrespective of the spin they may put on it.

00:50:16.760 And there is a woman over there, a reporter, an intrepid gal named Alison Boshoff, who is reporting woman after woman coming forward to say that he violently assaulted them, that he was never sober, that we were sold a bill of goods in his memoir, in which he claimed he was sober, and all he did was spend his later years helping people get sober.

00:50:41.420 However, as Maureen Callahan wrote up in a great piece that's posted now, his greatest performance was not on Friends, it was as a newly sober good guy who just wanted to help others get clean.

00:50:54.620 Reporting by the Daily Mail that he cheated on his fiancée with young women as young as 19, that his, quote, sober coach, a woman he described in his memoir as Aaron, and friend, and assistant, and who he praised,

00:51:10.200 wound up allegedly being shoved by him into a wall, thrown onto a bed, she cut off all contact with him, that she had a coffee table hurled at her, that was the ex-fiancée, sorry, after she dared to break up with him, I mean, we could keep going.

00:51:29.460 And they're basically saying it was a lie, and this, you know, addicted guy never did conquer that beast, and really just did what he did best in that memoir, and in his interview with Diane Sawyer, which was ACT.

00:51:45.620 What do you make of it, Will?

00:51:48.400 You know, I'm always a little bit torn after someone dies, and then allegations start coming out about someone, you're like, what do you really believe?

00:51:54.260 The person isn't even there to defend themselves, but in this situation, I would say that I would look at these women, and it seems pretty, I guess you could say, airtight, especially with the Daily Mail coming and reporting on it and saying these things, and I would say that it's probably true. 0.53

00:52:06.080 And what it goes to show me, and all of this, more than anything, is that Hollywood is an evil place, with people who are all liars, with people who don't really care about actually being good people, they care about selling an image of being a good person, and that's why it's like, why are we putting so much credence in talking about these people, and saying like, oh, this celebrity, this A-list person who lives in this mansion, who has no ties to what a normal person goes through, why am I taking even life advice from this type of person in these types of things?

00:52:35.600 To me, it's just, the way that this is, and how we're viewing it is so much more of a lack of good priorities on the normal Americans' part, that we are heralding these people up, putting them up so high on a pedestal, and then when they fall down, being shocked and surprised that they weren't actually these good people, these people are in Hollywood.

00:52:53.940 These are the worst people in America, really, other than maybe some of the big pharma people, but these are the people who care really nothing about us, and are doing it all for vanity, why would you expect them to be telling the truth about these things?

00:53:04.660 It is an industry that corrupts. There's no question. Evita, it's interesting. In his memoir, he described this so-called Aaron that was a pseudonym. She's come out, and we know her name is Morgan Moses now. Again, that's from Boshoff's reporting. He talked about her in the memoir. Here's some audio in which he described her.

00:53:24.040 I met her two years earlier at another rehab where she had been working at the time. I didn't get sober back then, but I saw how wonderful she was in every way, and promptly stole her from the sober living rehab and made her my assistant.

00:53:39.620 And she became my best friend. She, too, understood the nature of addiction and would come to know my struggles better than any doctor I'd ever seen.

00:53:51.720 Despite the comfort that Aaron brought to the situation, I still spent many sleepless nights in Southern California.

00:53:59.760 Sleep is a real issue for me, especially when I'm in one of those places.

00:54:03.720 That said, I don't think I've ever slept more than four hours straight in my entire life.

00:54:10.160 It didn't help that we'd been watching nothing but prison documentaries, and I was coming off so much Xanax, my brain had fried to the point where I was convinced that I was an actual prisoner and that this sober living place was an actual jail.

00:54:24.420 Hmm. You tell me, Evita, I feel like we, to Will's point, we have a thing as Americans, and it's to our credit, but it's not always right.

00:54:35.700 We need to build people back up after they've fallen.

00:54:39.360 Like, we need to root for people's redemption chapter.

00:54:44.800 I think we never really know what's going on behind the scenes when it comes to celebrities, when it comes to politicians.

00:54:50.660 There was a great Elon Musk quote from just a short while ago where he said, we have so many people who care about looking good while doing evil.

00:54:59.880 And so, obviously, this audio book and this projection that he wanted to make about his friend and his life and the way that he's just raising awareness was not the full picture.

00:55:11.680 And I'll say, I know really genuinely good people in my life, and when they do good things, they do them quietly.

00:55:18.360 They don't need-

00:55:18.920 They don't tell you about them.

00:55:19.460 Exactly. The little old ladies who are, you know, knitting clothing for the babies in the NICU, people who are volunteering at your church, the moms who are, you know, making snacks and meals at the end of the day for their families.

00:55:33.680 I mean, these are people who do good things and are good people, and they don't need to parade it around and to brag about it.

00:55:40.840 And to me, any time we have a celebrity or a politician who is acting in the way that Matthew Perry did before he died, it's a red flag for me.

00:55:48.420 You know, it is so true, because I can tell you one thing for sure.

00:55:52.440 Whenever you see a celebrity, Meghan Markle or anyone else, in a soup kitchen or a battered women's shelter, domestic violence shelter, there are no cameras in those places.

00:56:03.320 The celebrity has brought in the camera because she or he wants attention on themselves.

00:56:10.600 They want attention on their own good deed.

00:56:13.100 It's like there are a lot of people who go out there and do great things for people who are hurting, and they don't do it because they want credit or to burnish their image.

00:56:22.440 I'm not saying that was Matthew Perry, but to your point, Will, you know, the Friends cast, they knew this guy was an addict.

00:56:29.060 You know, like, why didn't Friends or the producers say, you know what, Matthew Perry, you need to take a year off.

00:56:34.700 You need to go, Chandler is going to go on sabbatical someplace, and you've got to get yourself some help.

00:56:39.540 We've heard about those things happening on other shows.

00:56:42.200 Instead, you know, they definitely knew.

00:56:43.920 Here he was talking to Diane Sawyer, describing his behavior on the set.

00:56:47.880 Here's Sot 14.

00:56:48.700 You had no trouble with the lines.

00:56:52.120 You had no trouble with the timing.

00:56:53.540 You had no trouble showing up every day.

00:56:56.180 Early on, yes.

00:56:57.560 And I made a rule that I would never drink or take anything at work.

00:57:05.420 So I would never do that.

00:57:07.180 But I would show up blindly hungover, like shaking and crazy hungover.

00:57:15.960 So you tell me why somebody didn't intervene.

00:57:18.700 And insist that their, quote, friend get some help.

00:57:23.220 Well, I don't think these people really want to intervene, I guess you could say.

00:57:26.780 I mean, the producers and the directors and all of these types of people getting into these positions, I feel like this is the norm for many of these types of people.

00:57:34.200 So they want to come and step in or be a good person when in reality, all the people around them are doing similar things.

00:57:39.980 Maybe not to the exact same extent as someone like this, but people are doing all sorts of sinful behavior and living immorally and kind of presenting that image of virtue.

00:57:51.320 I think I said it on your show last time I was on that we live in a post-virtue world.

00:57:55.620 But really, we live in a post-virtue world where people show that they are virtuous, fakely, more now than ever before.

00:58:02.200 And that's what it really seems to come down to.

00:58:04.720 Nailed it.

00:58:05.560 Well, look, I share your concern about disparaging him with the Me Too stories post-mortem.

00:58:11.340 But I do think it's relevant.

00:58:13.460 The reason we went into this is because if he was never actually sober, you know, as these women who are, I mean, again, they're not there. 0.96

00:58:19.720 These aren't attributable directly to them.

00:58:21.600 The male is outing these reports about these women.

00:58:25.680 But if these women's stories are coming forward from them or from people who know them and it's about Matthew Perry never having been sober, it's saying that he was meeting young women on dating sites and then he would hit them up for drugs.

00:58:37.080 This is all during his alleged sobriety.

00:58:39.400 It's just it's a different story, right?

00:58:41.340 If that's how he was treating the people who are most important to him, his fiance, his young assistant, his sober coach.

00:58:47.680 I don't know what to say.

00:58:49.100 I it's just the whole thing makes me sad.

00:58:51.340 Evita, on the story of Americans Need the Redemption chapter, whether somebody deserves it or not, this young woman, Gypsy Rose, is all over the news.

00:59:02.720 And now I understand what the mother did to her.

00:59:05.940 I followed this story.

00:59:07.360 The mother had what we used to call Munchausen's by proxy and hurt this poor girl at every turn and raised her like she had about twenty five thousand illnesses. 1.00

00:59:18.220 She was in a wheelchair, alleged infections.

00:59:20.960 The mother was making it all happen because the mother needed attention. 1.00

00:59:24.320 She was a sick, sick person. 0.99

00:59:25.460 And Gypsy Rose wound up dating. 0.99

00:59:29.500 That may be too strong a term for the relationship she had with this young man who was of low IQ, who was on the autism spectrum and got him to kill her mother, to stab her mother almost a couple dozen times to death.

00:59:44.440 The mother did die.

00:59:46.020 Gypsy Rose went to prison. 0.99

00:59:47.160 She got, I think, a ten year sentence.

00:59:48.520 The boy got sentenced to life in prison.

00:59:50.880 And now she's out, Gypsy Rose, and she's making the rounds in the media.

00:59:55.200 Here's just a bit of how it went for her when she appeared on The View in SOT 16.

00:59:59.500 And I think you're very brave for being here.

01:00:03.820 Thank you.

01:00:04.240 Thank you.

01:00:04.780 Thank you for telling your story.

01:00:05.880 I think it will help a lot of people.

01:00:07.480 Thank you.

01:00:08.140 The question, though, that I think a lot of people have, I don't have it, is this.

01:00:13.100 Why didn't you try telling a family member or the police, maybe, that you weren't sick?

01:00:19.460 Why resort to murder?

01:00:21.440 Well, you know, I did try to run away, and I talk about this in the documentary.

01:00:24.560 I talk about the first time that I tried to run away from home, within four hours, I got as far as it's outside of town.

01:00:32.220 And within four hours, she brought me back to the home, chained me to the bed, left me there for two weeks.

01:00:38.440 Two weeks without a lot of food, water.

01:00:42.520 I had to urinate on myself or in a bucket as she, you know, held the chain. 0.67

01:00:47.500 And so, you know, I was in the mindset of, I'm so afraid of her.

01:00:52.400 I'm so afraid that if I reach out for help another time, it will be worse for me.

01:00:59.960 What do you make of it, Evita?

01:01:02.080 I mean, first of all, I'll just say that it's been bizarre that she's now become a celebrity.

01:01:06.800 This is a woman who orchestrated the murder of her mother. 1.00

01:01:09.860 And now she's making the media rounds, like you said. 1.00

01:01:12.520 She has high-profile TV appearances, a book deal.

01:01:15.180 This is her current husband.

01:01:16.040 Yeah, I mean, this is, she orchestrated the murder of her mother. 0.99

01:01:19.940 I'm not sure how she's going to help people.

01:01:21.980 I'm not sure how she's brave.

01:01:24.080 I think she's tragic.

01:01:25.320 I think she needs psychological help.

01:01:27.040 I do not understand why now we are creating a celebrity out of her.

01:01:30.220 And I'll also say, I have a lot of sympathy for Guta John, the boy who she had murder her mother. 0.85

01:01:38.120 The View also asked her about whether she cared about his life sentence.

01:01:43.180 We have that.

01:01:43.960 We have that.

01:01:44.320 Wait, I'll play it, and then you take it.

01:01:45.720 Stop 17.

01:01:47.420 You were sentenced to 10 years.

01:01:49.200 He was sentenced to life in prison.

01:01:51.100 Right.

01:01:51.540 I love in the documentary, you take responsibility.

01:01:54.860 You talk about, you know, you were doing the time that you were given.

01:01:58.680 But he will spend the rest of his life in jail.

01:02:01.040 How do you feel about that?

01:02:02.720 How do you kind of reconcile that?

01:02:04.740 You know, I know that we both probably have a lot of regrets.

01:02:07.100 I know I have regrets.

01:02:09.420 I can't speak for him.

01:02:11.060 So I really don't know his side of things.

01:02:13.680 All I know is, you know, I did my time.

01:02:16.400 He's doing his time.

01:02:19.920 That's all the best that I could do at this point.

01:02:22.520 Like, for me, I have to focus on myself right now.

01:02:25.160 I can't look in the past and worry about him or anything else going on.

01:02:29.120 I have to prioritize myself in this moment.

01:02:32.800 Go ahead.

01:02:34.220 I mean, I just found that answer so selfish, Megan.

01:02:36.560 I mean, I think he, to look at the situation from his perspective, he has a low IQ of 82.

01:02:43.260 His psychologist said that he has the mind of a child.

01:02:46.600 He was deeply lonely.

01:02:47.740 His parents said he had no friends.

01:02:49.900 So Gypsy was really the first person that he ever felt like loved him outside of his own parents. 0.98

01:02:55.720 She asked him to kill her parents. 0.88

01:02:57.580 She bought the murder weapon. 0.66

01:02:59.320 She bought his bus ticket from Wisconsin to her hometown.

01:03:02.920 This is, she really was the mastermind behind this.

01:03:06.900 And I think he did something evil.

01:03:08.700 I think she's done something evil.

01:03:10.220 But to say that she's out, she's presumably making a lot of money and that she doesn't even care to think about him. 0.73

01:03:16.140 She has to focus on herself right now was really gross.

01:03:19.460 And I thought it was gross that The View didn't push back on that at all.

01:03:22.940 The whole story is so, it's just terrible because you do, if you watch the story,

01:03:27.840 it's, they've made a bunch of documentaries about it and Netflix shows and Hulu, I think.

01:03:32.100 You grow to loathe this mother.

01:03:34.060 I mean, this mother, mental ill, yes, Gypsy probably is from all the torture. 1.00

01:03:38.920 The mother tortured her. 1.00

01:03:40.120 The mother was a sick, sick person. 1.00

01:03:42.860 And you do sort of get to the point where you realize you feel, she felt she had no choice, right? 0.99

01:03:49.380 She felt like there was no way out.

01:03:52.320 She couldn't run away.

01:03:54.700 I'm not justifying murder, but you know, I don't, I, my view is they went too hard on the kid who actually did the crime.

01:04:01.360 He was, like you say, like very low IQ on the autism spectrum.

01:04:06.340 He just wrote an email, the Post reported about it, New York Post.

01:04:09.500 It was all smileys.

01:04:10.700 He called himself Mr. Smiley.

01:04:12.820 He's never going to see air again.

01:04:15.620 He thought he was helping somebody out.

01:04:18.140 The whole thing is like so freaking tragic.

01:04:20.420 But I don't know that there are any heroes in it.

01:04:22.520 Yeah, I mean, for myself, I don't see any heroes in it whatsoever.

01:04:27.740 I mean, definitely not these people in the media who are parading this poor woman around who obviously has mental issues and pushing her out to make a quick buck and to get headlines.

01:04:37.520 I mean, this is the real horrible thing of it.

01:04:39.840 And I think part of it comes from this whole obsession that so many people have nowadays with this true crime stuff and these types of murder mystery, like these types of things, the Ted Bundy and the other people that they have on Netflix shows and things like that, all these podcasts and stuff.

01:04:55.340 Like people are obsessed with this stuff now.

01:04:57.320 And to me, I find that so weird how obsessed our age of people have become with listening and looking at murder types of things, which.

01:05:04.800 I'm one of them.

01:05:05.720 I'm guilty.

01:05:06.440 You're one of them?

01:05:07.260 Okay.

01:05:07.440 Not of murder, but of watching and liking true crime.

01:05:11.640 I do think it's interesting just, I mean, I was a lawyer for 10 years, and so I'm very attracted to the legal system stories, like cases, crimes, whatever they are.

01:05:19.440 They can be civil or criminal.

01:05:20.640 I'm into them.

01:05:21.740 But I know a ton of people who have no connection as a legal background who are very into true crime.

01:05:27.420 I'll tell you, this may sound sick, but I do think it's a bit of an escape from your own life.

01:05:32.440 And it's just like, you're listening to these stories and they unravel as a mystery.

01:05:38.000 So there's that piece of it where you're like, okay, I get to sort of try to solve it and figure it out.

01:05:41.460 So that's, you know, left brain, right?

01:05:43.520 And the right brain is more creative.

01:05:45.260 I always forget.

01:05:46.740 I think that's interesting.

01:05:48.060 But I also think in the way the crossword puzzle doesn't allow you to think about any problems in your own life.

01:05:52.220 Neither do these stories.

01:05:53.240 Like you're thinking about somebody else's very, very big problem.

01:05:55.640 So it's an escape.

01:05:56.360 Yeah, I think people have, for the most part, at least in the Western America, people around my generation have very boring lives and very meaningless lives in a lot of ways.

01:06:05.580 So then these true crime documentaries come on with some excitement about someone who got absolutely brutally murdered.

01:06:10.800 And that's what gives them excitement in their life is hearing about these people dying.

01:06:14.380 You know, maybe I'm an armchair psychologist right now doing this.

01:06:17.060 But to me, it seems like people with not much meaning in the sense of, like, having a lot of excitement going on in their lives love these kind of things because it gives them something to bring that to them.

01:06:27.860 And it's weird that we just have so many people obsessing over it, in my opinion.

01:06:31.540 All right.

01:06:31.780 If it is meaning that you are looking for, right, or the people who you refer to, if it is meaning they are, have I got the convention for them?

01:06:38.120 It is called FatCon.

01:06:39.220 Now, in order to go, they need to be a little heavy set or perhaps extremely heavy set.

01:06:47.540 This gal, Jalyn Chaney, was out there on social media this week promoting it. 0.80

01:06:52.920 I think it just happened earlier this week.

01:06:54.720 Here's just a taste of her message.

01:06:57.940 FatCon is a three-day fat liberation celebration, y'all.

01:07:01.120 We will be celebrating fat liberation, body acceptance, and the power of being in fat community.

01:07:05.820 With over 60 hours of programming spanning from policy, legislation, healthcare, community, and visual arts, plus a ton more, this is sure to be something you don't want to miss.

01:07:15.260 The vibes are going to be immaculate.

01:07:17.200 With a fat brunch, a fat fashion show, and a fat vendor marketplace, there is so much to do. 0.53

01:07:23.360 So, Jalyn's very upset that people aren't being more accommodating of fat people. 0.73

01:07:29.440 Okay, her word.

01:07:30.480 I never liked the fat word.

01:07:31.860 It's not a nice word, but she's going to embrace it, so I'm going to use it here.

01:07:34.460 She wrote an article in 2022 for Allure.

01:07:38.400 It's still impossibly hard to be a fat content creator online.

01:07:43.580 For example, she's mad that brands don't carry above a size 3XL Evita because she thinks that's discriminatory, 0.99

01:07:52.080 and that's why it's hard to be an online creator because I guess you can't look your best in the clothing of choice.

01:07:57.380 And she is the one who wrote that article, or was featured in that article in Travel and Leisure,

01:08:03.940 where she had drafted a petition to the FAA, got a lot of attention, proposing a comprehensive customer of size policy,

01:08:14.760 prioritizing the comfort and well-being of all passengers, including a free second airplane seat for those who are, quote, fat, like Jalyn.

01:08:26.120 And saying, you know, the airline, and thus the rest of us, should have to pay for her second seat. 1.00

01:08:31.200 So these stories, they always, you know, make me take a pause, right?

01:08:36.680 Because I do think that people, no matter what size they are, right, they still have value.

01:08:41.960 They're still human beings.

01:08:43.280 We should treat everybody the same.

01:08:45.160 But the fat liberation movement has taken it really to a new level. 0.58

01:08:48.760 They used to say on magazines, this is beautiful, right?

01:08:52.480 That was the first thing, and they would have a plus-size model.

01:08:54.740 Now they say, this is healthy, and it's not healthy, and we can't deny objective truth just to help somebody's, you know, feelings.

01:09:03.580 And I think, really, it does so much damage to our society, to our culture.

01:09:08.820 It's gluttony is a sin.

01:09:11.940 It creates an unhealthy society.

01:09:15.340 I also think that it's wrapped up in Marxism, right?

01:09:18.300 Person of size.

01:09:19.580 Also think person of color.

01:09:21.520 These are all the same words.

01:09:22.860 That's why in universities, they have Black studies, they have Native American studies, they have lesbian dance theory, and they also have fat studies. 0.53

01:09:31.340 They have put this under the umbrella of, oh, yes, they do, fat studies.

01:09:34.840 It's a victimhood.

01:09:36.440 It's under the victimhood umbrella.

01:09:38.380 And so it's been wrapped up now in politics, which I think really does a disservice to people who are struggling with their weight,

01:09:45.060 because it really, it comes down to whether you want to have a long life and a thriving life.

01:09:50.020 Like, this one I really don't get.

01:09:53.140 I'm all for not shaming people who are plus size.

01:09:56.480 Like, I realize it's very hard, and I've had plenty of them in my family.

01:09:59.980 I get it.

01:10:00.440 It's hard.

01:10:01.240 But this is like next, there's no question it's terrible for you. 0.66

01:10:05.500 You are on your way to an early death.

01:10:08.380 And that's, for you to worry about, I don't, like, it's fine.

01:10:10.800 I don't think I'm going to live my life a different way, but I certainly don't want you promoting it.

01:10:14.940 The same way I wouldn't want you promoting, go for two packs a day.

01:10:17.680 It's a wonderful thing.

01:10:18.720 It's really like, let's get behind, you know, make it three, a full carton of cigarettes a day.

01:10:24.520 Lean in, right?

01:10:25.300 Like, as a member of society, Will, you feel like, no, we have a right to speak out and say, this is not a healthy choice.

01:10:33.400 This isn't just like an equal choice among others.

01:10:35.920 This is an unfortunate circumstance that you found yourself in or you've chosen or whatever, but I will not get on board promoting it as a great option for others.

01:10:45.440 Oh, of course not.

01:10:46.440 Look, they all need to be drinking raw milk.

01:10:48.140 You always know I have the raw milk on the show, Megan.

01:10:50.000 That would help them out a lot.

01:10:51.460 But in reality, all of this stuff is just complete nonsense.

01:10:54.900 Right now, I'm probably working on my next book, which is going to be all about health and the big pharma industry and what they are doing to people

01:11:01.500 and how they push people into this overweight state, this obese state, and they're doing it as a means of control, I think, just like Avita said.

01:11:09.240 I think that as concerned citizens of what we're seeing in this country right now, we have a duty to speak out against things that we see are unhealthy and wrong.

01:11:18.700 I mean, just as Jesus tells us to be evangelical with our faith, to go and talk to people about our faith, it's one of the greatest gifts we have.

01:11:26.440 When it comes to the truth on what we know to be true, what will help people, we should be doing the same thing in all aspects of our life.

01:11:31.980 We should be going and talking to people about all of the things that are true, but people right now are too lazy to go and say something because it's too much work,

01:11:40.120 or they're too scared of what other people are going to think about them for saying that being fat is unhealthy.

01:11:45.680 Of course it's unhealthy.

01:11:46.860 It's terrible the things that we do to our body, the things we inject ourselves with and everything we do.

01:11:51.520 But people don't want to talk about that stuff because they might hurt someone's feelings,

01:11:55.320 and people not having their feelings hurt is how the West is going to die when it comes to health.

01:11:59.900 Unless you're a white person, in which case it's totally fine to hurt your feelings all day long. 0.99

01:12:04.760 You were born evil. 1.00

01:12:06.340 You're bad right from birth. 0.99

01:12:07.920 And that brings me to the Golden Globes.

01:12:10.120 So we covered the Golden Globes when Maureen Callahan came on the show on Monday,

01:12:13.280 but we didn't get to this particular clip, which is just, I mean, you tell me.

01:12:17.600 Watch this clip, and imagine if they were talking at the end.

01:12:21.980 It starts off fine, but the controversial part comes about halfway through.

01:12:25.680 Imagine if they were talking like this about any other group of people,

01:12:30.460 especially any other so-called oppressed race or social category.

01:12:36.040 Listen.

01:12:37.540 Good evening, everyone.

01:12:38.300 Issa and I recently had the privilege of playing Barbie and Ken in the Barbie movie,

01:12:42.660 which is pretty impactful for people who look like us.

01:12:45.340 Yeah, we may not have been what first popped up in people's minds when they thought of Barbie or Ken,

01:12:50.360 but that's changed, and we're hoping to continue to push the boundaries of the roles we can play.

01:12:55.980 By that, of course, we mean white people roles.

01:12:58.560 Oh, my God.

01:12:59.200 I love to play white people roles.

01:13:01.100 No, me too.

01:13:02.080 White people roles are the best. 0.99

01:13:03.660 I mean, an alcoholic, divorced, single father fighting for custody.

01:13:08.240 Oh, yeah.

01:13:09.040 An alcoholic housewife whose husband's affair drives her deeper into alcohol. 0.98

01:13:13.060 Oh, how about this?

01:13:13.920 How about this?

01:13:14.340 An alcoholic schoolteacher who must put their love of alcohol aside to inspire their class of inner-city youth.

01:13:20.940 Oh, white people roles.

01:13:22.940 Oh, yeah.

01:13:24.460 It's not funny.

01:13:25.600 It's deeply offensive. 0.99

01:13:27.260 That's what whites are. 1.00

01:13:28.760 And honestly, like, half those movies have probably actually been made in Hollywood because that's what Hollywood thinks of whites, too. 0.60

01:13:33.560 Right?

01:13:33.820 They're divorced.

01:13:34.500 They're alcoholic.

01:13:35.620 They're cheating on their spouses. 0.99

01:13:37.260 That's just a white person problem, you see? 0.98

01:13:39.420 Can you imagine doing this about Black people or Hispanic people?

01:13:44.440 That was an Asian man and a Black woman for the listening audience. 0.83

01:13:47.140 What do you make of it, Will?

01:13:48.900 Yeah, well, the thing is, you know, you're talking about imagine that it's this other group and these kind of things.

01:13:52.700 But the thing is, is that these people don't care. 0.98

01:13:54.680 You know, we can call out their hypocrisy all we want and say, well, what if they said it about Jews or Black people or gay people? 0.99

01:13:59.880 Like, it's not about that. 0.99

01:14:01.560 It is about power because these people know that they have the power.

01:14:04.220 They know they're actors making millions and millions of dollars.

01:14:07.080 They know that they control the entertainment industry and all these other things.

01:14:10.260 So why does it matter if they're hypocrites for the things that they're saying if they have the power?

01:14:14.540 And that's what it really comes down to is that these people do not care about you.

01:14:18.400 They do not care about actually saying something funny or creating something beautiful.

01:14:22.160 They care about having power over you and turning you into a slave.

01:14:25.460 And, yeah, that might sound a little hyperbolic when it comes to, like, oh, these people are just making a joke on the Golden Globes.

01:14:30.840 It's not all that serious. 0.97

01:14:32.300 But in reality, it is because there are people out there who live in Los Angeles and New York City and Chicago who see those things and laugh at them and think how much white people suck and that this is just a fine thing to do. 0.83

01:14:45.260 And then worship these people who say these things and talk about them in the magazines and on the TV shows. 0.96

01:14:50.540 And that's their life.

01:14:52.340 I mean, it's so sad and disappointing.

01:14:54.000 And when are white people going to say, like, enough is enough?

01:14:56.000 Like, there's going to be some white person probably who keeps seeing these things over and over again and might commit some sort of horrible act because of how these people are treating them in the media, which is a sad and scary thing to say.

01:15:07.780 But they're just getting treated and thrown around every single day.

01:15:10.760 It's really terrible. 0.98

01:15:12.400 They're trying to make it cool to hate the evil or, in this case, weakened white people. 1.00

01:15:18.780 You know, ha, ha, ha, you losers who are alcoholics. 1.00

01:15:22.340 Ha, ha. 1.00

01:15:22.600 So fun.

01:15:23.760 You know, you people who have been cheated on.

01:15:25.500 That's a white thing.

01:15:26.740 This is absurd.

01:15:28.200 It's not true.

01:15:29.720 And as Glenn Lowry of Vida has been saying for a long time, brilliant commentator.

01:15:33.440 He was at Harvard, economics professor.

01:15:35.480 Now he's at Brown.

01:15:36.340 And his commentary is always worth reading and watching.

01:15:39.040 And he's black. 0.86

01:15:40.460 He says he worries about this kind of rhetoric, not this in particular, but in general, because what's going to happen is it's going to get turned around on black people. 0.97

01:15:47.380 And he says black people aren't going to like that very much. 0.77

01:15:49.820 You know, we start to talk about crime stats in the black community and so on. 0.98

01:15:53.040 Like they're playing a very dangerous game with this so-called humor.

01:15:57.680 They are playing a dangerous game.

01:15:59.300 I think any sort of of of racism, whether it's wrapped up in a joke or whether it's much more overt, is is is is a huge problem for any country.

01:16:09.060 We've seen it in the history of this country with with the way that blacks used to be treated in the past.

01:16:13.320 And then you're seeing it right now in South Africa.

01:16:14.980 And it's getting very bloody there.

01:16:17.100 Listen, I'll say that the normalization of anti-white racism is is not actually necessarily coming from Hollywood.

01:16:25.100 They are repeating what they are getting from our universities.

01:16:27.620 And Megan, you've been talking about this a lot on the show.

01:16:30.220 But DEI is is rotten.

01:16:32.140 That's why we are allowed to to discriminate against white students in the admissions process. 0.99

01:16:38.060 It's why we have black only dorms, black only convocations, black only study spaces at elite universities. 0.94

01:16:44.540 That is normal. 0.92

01:16:45.980 We have Indian only science groups, Hispanic only math groups.

01:16:51.980 There is no white only anything. 0.88

01:16:54.460 And I'm not saying there should be.

01:16:56.460 I think it should be colorblind.

01:16:57.980 We should go back to looking at somebody based off of the content of their character or in the case of a university.

01:17:03.520 What's your IQ?

01:17:04.340 How good were you in high school?

01:17:05.580 What are your merits?

01:17:06.820 And they're not.

01:17:07.900 And that is where a lot of this is coming from.

01:17:10.040 It is rooted in the universities and it's spreading out into the rest of the workplace and into every institution that we have in America.

01:17:15.920 And it is literally poison.

01:17:18.120 It is.

01:17:18.800 It's cancer and it's metastasized.

01:17:21.180 And we need to cut it out, radiate it, chemotherapize it, and do all the things, which is a form of poison, to get rid of the poison.

01:17:29.300 I mean, that's what you kill poison with poison.

01:17:31.480 That's the only way forward.

01:17:32.520 This has got to be eradicated.

01:17:34.520 Otherwise, it's going to fester even more.

01:17:36.440 And it's dangerous.

01:17:37.340 It's not the way any of us wants to live.

01:17:39.500 Evita and Will, so great to see you both.

01:17:41.180 Thanks for being here.

01:17:41.860 Will, when your book comes out, come on.

01:17:43.920 Talk about it.

01:17:44.500 Oh, I'd love to.

01:17:45.760 There'll be a little bit of time, but definitely.

01:17:48.080 All right.

01:17:48.280 Well, wait.

01:17:48.640 We'll be patient.

01:17:49.380 We'll talk in the meantime, too.

01:17:50.360 Thank you.

01:17:51.480 Thanks, Megan.

01:17:52.160 Okay, so up next, I could not believe, when I started digging deep into what's happening in the Alex Murdoch case down in South Carolina, you know he's seeking a new trial.

01:18:00.140 He may very well get it, but you don't even know the half of what that court clerk has done that's now come back to haunt her.

01:18:07.340 As we move into the hearing, he's about to get his hearing on whether he should get a new trial.

01:18:10.300 And it could be a he said, he said, she said, on this juror's credibility about whether this court clerk interfered with the verdict and the jury versus this court clerk's, Becky's, Becky Hill, her testimony about whether we can believe her.

01:18:23.340 And let me tell you, her credibility, it's taking some hits. 0.86

01:18:26.460 That's next.

01:18:27.460 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on Sirius XM.

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01:19:30.760 Now we finish up the week with the latest on the Alec Murdoch case.

01:19:34.080 Becky Hill, the embattled Colleton County Clerk of Court, and her adult son, who also works for the court, are in some very big trouble right now, and all of it could very much benefit Alec Murdoch, who's seeking a new trial, and there's a hearing to see whether he'll get it at the end of January.

01:19:54.480 Will Fulks is the founding editor of Fitz News.

01:19:58.940 They've been breaking all sorts of news in this case, both recently and while the trial was going on and while Alec Murdoch was getting outed as a potential, and now we know convicted murderer is with us now.

01:20:10.200 Will, thank you so much for being here.

01:20:11.820 So this is, we knew that the defense was accusing Becky Hill, the court clerk, of allegedly tampering with the jury, and as I understand it, they have at least one juror who is saying, under oath, she said to us before Alec testified, watch his body language, and something to the effect of, be skeptical.

01:20:33.860 And now you have other jurors who say, no, we didn't see that, that's not what we heard or saw.

01:20:40.760 And I think you have two other jurors who say, we heard her say the thing about the body language, but not that second part.

01:20:47.020 Now, all of this could be very problematic for the prosecution.

01:20:50.320 The way I understand it is, if this judge says, the judge is going to have to find one of two things.

01:20:57.220 There was interference with the jury, and he gets a new trial, or the standard is, there's interference with the jury.

01:21:03.860 And it affected the outcome.

01:21:06.280 And if that's the legal standard, you have to prove it affected the outcome, Alec Murdoch is in a worse position.

01:21:11.820 So the legal standard may decide how this comes down.

01:21:15.740 But either way, what Becky Hill did or didn't do is at the heart of the case, and she and the juror are going to be facing off because she denies the charges.

01:21:24.340 So what have we learned about Becky in the past couple of months that may negatively affect her going into this battle?

01:21:32.280 Well, we've learned quite a bit, Megan, and thank you for having me, by the way.

01:21:36.980 I appreciate you having me on.

01:21:38.640 And I would point out, in addition to those allegations of jury tampering, there's also an allegation that's been put forward that Becky Hill conspired to have a juror that she believed to be favorable to Alec Murdoch thrown off of the panel.

01:21:52.820 And in fact, there was a juror removed.

01:21:54.740 Yeah, that's correct.

01:21:55.800 Egg lady removed the day of the verdict.

01:21:58.180 So it's a little more than just tampering.

01:22:00.520 There's actually allegations of a conspiracy to manipulate the composition of the jury.

01:22:05.180 But yeah, you outlined the standards very well.

01:22:08.600 The state has to prove, or the state's alleging that Murdoch has to prove not only that there was tampering, but that it changed people's minds, that it impacted the verdict.

01:22:17.560 Whereas the defense is saying, hey, all we've got to prove is that there was tampering.

01:22:21.320 And what's really interesting about this case is, at least in South Carolina, there is no case law.

01:22:26.580 There is no precedent that relates to the specific set of circumstances that we're dealing with.

01:22:31.640 So former Chief Justice Jean Toll, who has been tasked with deciding whether or not Alec Murdoch gets a new trial, she's going to have a lot of discretion.

01:22:41.080 All right.

01:22:41.580 So they're going to go in there at the end of the month, and they're going to have testimony about what Becky Hill did or didn't do.

01:22:45.960 In the meantime, let's just start with the book, because that's interesting.

01:22:48.720 She wrote a memoir, which is very unusual to have a court clerk write a memoir about the case, and she had a co-author on it.

01:22:55.460 And whatever, they self-published.

01:22:57.360 Okay, it was weird, but now it comes out, she plagiarized.

01:23:02.000 And it's okay to use that word, because she's admitted it.

01:23:05.300 Tell us about that.

01:23:07.540 That's correct.

01:23:08.360 She admitted plagiarizing excerpts of a story that was printed, I think it was a BBC reporter, that she lifted some copy from and included it in the book.

01:23:16.900 And as you acknowledge, she's admitted it.

01:23:19.540 This is not up for debate.

01:23:21.340 But this is just really the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the bad news that Becky Hill has been dealing with over the last few months.

01:23:28.360 And Megan, I think it's important to point out, Becky Hill is somebody that during this trial really stood out.

01:23:34.200 All the media who covered this story, she had great relationships with everyone.

01:23:39.540 She was someone that everyone really loved, got to know very well.

01:23:43.340 And so to have all this come out, it's been very difficult for a lot of folks who really got to know her very well during the process.

01:23:50.420 But they're basically alleging in these, and we'll get to it, that she's almost a serial criminal. 0.96

01:23:57.500 I mean, that she's done many illegal acts. 1.00

01:24:00.740 On the book, I'll just put a period at the end of that story.

01:24:03.160 The co-author has since pulled the book and said he never wants to work with her or have anything more to do with her again.

01:24:08.040 And we find out that one of my favorite pieces of the story is how did Becky only had to write like the prologue to the book that the co-author did all the labor on the book.

01:24:17.880 So she had one thing to do.

01:24:19.220 And it turns out the way she plagiarized was a BBC reporter had inadvertently sent a draft of an article the BBC reporter was working on about the Murdoch case to Becky because the reporter's editor was named Becky, too.

01:24:33.960 And so we've all been there.

01:24:35.600 And then you just say, hey, sorry, could you disregard that?

01:24:37.520 Didn't mean to send that to you.

01:24:38.360 Apparently, Becky Hill was like, yeah, no problem. 0.94

01:24:39.820 I got you, girl.

01:24:40.780 And she stole it and made it her prologue of her book.

01:24:44.500 Can't make this up.

01:24:46.320 But and again, these are the least of her problems, really, which is why this is all so fascinating.

01:24:51.100 Get to the law enforcement investigation into her and her son, which it turns out we do believe is related.

01:25:00.700 Oh, they're absolutely related.

01:25:03.540 And all this started back in November.

01:25:05.720 Our news outlet reported exclusively that Becky Hill's son, Colt Hill, had been arrested for one count of wiretapping.

01:25:13.840 At the time, it was not revealed what that count of wiretapping was related to.

01:25:17.860 We have since learned that it was part of an effort to keep Becky Hill abreast of two state ethics commission investigations that have been underway for the past few months into the book.

01:25:29.980 There have been allegations that she abused her position of public trust to enrich herself, gaining access to materials for the book.

01:25:39.720 There's also an investigation and allegations that she misappropriated taxpayer money and then lied about it to members of the county council down there in Colleton.

01:25:48.480 So those are the two ethics complaints she's facing.

01:25:50.840 But this week, we reported earlier this week, State Law Enforcement Division has confirmed a criminal investigation into those allegations of abusing her office for personal gain.

01:26:02.280 And again, why does this matter?

01:26:04.160 Well, Megan, those are at the very heart of the defense's motion for a new trial, the allegation that she rigged the jury to benefit herself to sell copies of this book.

01:26:13.200 Oh, my gosh. I mean, this is when you first heard it from the defense, you're like, no way.

01:26:18.020 This is a desperate defense measure to try to undo this massive, terrible jury verdict against their client.

01:26:24.900 But they've got it. I mean, they are they are very well positioned going into this thing.

01:26:29.960 My my feeling is the the only way they lose this is if the judge chooses the legal standard that says and you have to show that it affected the outcome,

01:26:37.660 in which case they might lose and Alec could stay in jail.

01:26:41.380 If not, he's going to get a new trial.

01:26:43.400 So the thing about that, the son is, as I understand, the son was like the chief tech guy for the court system and how it looks.

01:26:52.900 And you tell me is she was being investigated for some of these ethical breaches that were suspected.

01:26:58.880 And she said to the son or he said to her, let's wiretap the investigator who's looking at so that the son would find out all that they knew and then report it back to the mom.

01:27:10.860 When it's actually excuse me, Megan, it's actually a little worse than that.

01:27:14.380 The individual they were wiretapping is the county administrator or the deputy administrator, rather, who was on the phone with the investigators.

01:27:22.780 And so one of the things that we've uncovered is in the weeks since all this started breaking, since Becky Hill was first aware that she was being investigated.

01:27:33.020 We've also been able to confirm that in addition to her son being arrested, we're now dealing with the potential obstruction of justice related to this case because we've got two cell phones that he has allegedly destroyed.

01:27:44.840 We've got two that were factory reset before they were turned over to investigators in an attempt to, I guess, scrub data off of them.

01:27:52.240 And the cell phone that Becky Hill used during the trial that could have all sorts of evidence on it, all sorts of information is missing, is missing.

01:28:02.080 She turned in a cell phone to investigators that was different than the one they specifically requested in their search warrant.

01:28:09.020 So, you know, we're not only looking at these jury tampering allegations, corruption allegations, but now we've got potential obstruction of justice died to this as well.

01:28:17.560 That is very convenient that that cell phone has gone missing.

01:28:20.780 And yes, so I read your report and you guys should check out Fitz News if you want to read because the details are all there.

01:28:25.880 Will lays them out very well.

01:28:27.820 They they had counter county issued cell phones because they work for the county and they transferred their phone numbers over to from their Samsung county issued phones to new iPhones.

01:28:37.980 But then they still had the old phones and those phones have been scrubbed of all data.

01:28:45.680 So we've been scrubbed.

01:28:47.020 So we've been destroyed.

01:28:48.080 And again, though, the most important one, Becky Hill's cell phone.

01:28:50.980 We don't know where it is.

01:28:52.140 And the timing of it, well, the timing of when they did the scrubbing is also suspicious.

01:28:58.180 No, it's very suspicious.

01:29:00.360 The two cell phones that were destroyed.

01:29:02.740 This took place when Becky Hill's son was first approached by law enforcement and asked to come in for questioning.

01:29:09.180 So he gets the call.

01:29:10.900 Hey, we want to question you.

01:29:12.040 He destroys those two cell phones allegedly.

01:29:15.520 And Becky Hill's cell phone goes missing the day that the jury tampering allegations were first leveled against her last September by Alec Murdoch's attorney.

01:29:24.240 So, yeah, it's not only what's happened, but it's the timing of what's happened that could be very significant moving forward.

01:29:31.460 This is way far afield.

01:29:33.580 And I have no evidence for this.

01:29:34.780 I just it's just a thought that occurred to me.

01:29:36.180 I wanted to ask you about.

01:29:37.020 Is there any chance, given how connected Alec Murdoch was to this courthouse?

01:29:40.340 You know, his dad is the prosecutor and the granddad was the prosecutor and he has was the prominent guy at this big law firm.

01:29:46.420 Is there any chance that like this was a side deal between the Murdochs and Becky?

01:29:51.760 Like do something so egregious it could get a bad verdict for me thrown out?

01:29:58.000 We have heard that theory.

01:29:59.480 We've done some digging into it.

01:30:00.960 I think the only way that that theory works, though, is that, you know, Becky Hill would have to be a very smooth criminal. 1.00

01:30:06.500 And I think from what we've seen, she is not, for example, conducting all of the business for her book on a government email.

01:30:16.300 I mean, literally using taxpayer time and taxpayer resources to write her book, to arrange interviews for her book, to promote and sell her book again, all on government time and using government resources.

01:30:30.160 So I don't know if that's quite the criminal mastermind that could pull something like that off.

01:30:34.460 But, Megan, I do want to make a point.

01:30:36.360 You raised something there about the influence of the Murdochs.

01:30:39.420 And what is so disappointing about all of this is, as I'm sure you know, South Carolina is not a state that has a reputation, a sterling reputation for dispensing justice, whether historically or in recent years.

01:30:50.900 We're a state that's had a lot of issues with judicial branch corruption.

01:30:56.120 There's a big push right now in our state legislature for judicial reform.

01:31:00.080 And so this was a trial where we got it right and everyone saw us get it right.

01:31:06.420 And so now to have to go back and revisit all these issues because of a clerk who's accused of these things, it really is disheartening because South Carolina needed this to be a clean trial.

01:31:17.320 And I do think the jury got the right verdict, but now we've got to find out if they did it the right way.

01:31:22.120 And it's increasingly looking as though they didn't.

01:31:24.860 Oh, my goodness.

01:31:26.480 All right.

01:31:26.800 Well, I have a weird way to end our interview because I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about this.

01:31:31.700 I forgive.

01:31:32.500 Please forgive me.

01:31:33.400 But you are you happen to have another role in the public eye.

01:31:36.720 And that is you worked for a while for Nikki Haley when she was governor of South Carolina and came out publicly and said that you and she had had, quote, an inappropriate physical relationship, which she's denied back in 2010.

01:31:50.320 So are you saying that when she was married, she had an extramarital affair with you?

01:31:56.800 The relationship was in 2007.

01:31:58.980 It all came out in 2010.

01:32:01.600 And, you know, that's been a story.

01:32:03.120 There's a great backstory to that.

01:32:04.640 I don't know if this is the time or the place to tell it.

01:32:07.160 But I'll say this, Megan, I do appreciate you asking about it and your interest in it.

01:32:11.840 You know, it's not just the Laura Loomers of the world that are interested in this story.

01:32:15.240 But it was a long time ago.

01:32:17.560 I mean, 17 years ago.

01:32:19.580 Since then, I built a very successful business here.

01:32:22.260 I'm raising a family.

01:32:23.200 We have seven kids.

01:32:24.780 My wife and I were expecting our eighth here in April.

01:32:27.060 Well, I'm not the person I was back then.

01:32:29.600 I don't think Nikki Haley is the person she was back then.

01:32:32.820 And so, you know, I understand there's a lot of interest in it.

01:32:35.760 I've said a lot about it in the past.

01:32:38.240 I don't know that I have much to say about it now, other than, you know, certainly stand by everything I said.

01:32:43.100 But I would encourage folks who are considering who to vote for in this upcoming presidential election.

01:32:49.400 I wouldn't look too much at an affair from 17 years ago.

01:32:52.540 I would look at where Nikki Haley is on the issues.

01:32:55.180 I do want to say this.

01:32:56.140 I'm very proud of the way that our media outlet has covered Nikki Haley since she announced her candidacy last February.

01:33:02.780 We have credited her where we thought she was doing good things on entitlements.

01:33:07.540 In fact, not only taking a good position, but pushing the field in the right direction on entitlements.

01:33:12.680 And we've criticized her where we felt she deserved it.

01:33:14.800 But we've kept it focused on the issues.

01:33:17.000 And I think that's a credit to the way that we're covering this race here in South Carolina.

01:33:20.300 Well, the primary moves to South Carolina in the not-too-distant future, who are you planning on voting for?

01:33:27.100 It's a very good question.

01:33:28.340 I've got to decide if I'm going to vote for a Republican or not.

01:33:30.580 But we'll see.

01:33:31.540 We're looking at the field.

01:33:33.520 And by the way, I was at the debate in Tuscaloosa and got a good look at the candidates.

01:33:37.640 I thought you and your crew did a great job there.

01:33:39.500 So certainly take an inventory of that field.

01:33:43.380 Well, look, all the best to you.

01:33:44.980 I appreciate those things are very dicey, especially involving somebody who's then running for president.

01:33:49.580 And she's denied it.

01:33:51.400 And Will says it happened so the viewers can make up their own minds.

01:33:54.020 But more importantly, you've been doing amazing, amazing work at Fitz News.

01:33:58.040 I have to say, you're reporting as a former, as a recovering lawyer.

01:34:01.300 I really appreciate your attention to detail.

01:34:02.940 You lay out all the facts of the case and let us make up our own minds on this story and the one we ended with.

01:34:09.060 So thank you and all the best to you.

01:34:11.640 You're very welcome.

01:34:12.280 Thank you.

01:34:13.440 Yeah, we appreciate it.

01:34:14.500 My gosh.

01:34:15.360 The Murdoch story, you guys, is unbelievable.

01:34:17.320 That thing about how she got the BBC reporter's story and wound up allegedly stealing it.

01:34:23.880 Can you imagine?

01:34:24.980 I mean, like, who would have the hubris?

01:34:26.880 Like, what does that show you?

01:34:28.260 It shows that she's a reckless stealer of information. 0.99

01:34:31.700 She's not even careful about it.

01:34:33.860 So, yeah, I see Will's point about what are the odds then that this reckless person, like,

01:34:39.060 had a side deal with Alec Murdoch that she would tank everything after the fact and she

01:34:44.920 would go through this meticulous exercise to do it.

01:34:47.560 But there are all sorts of things that are going to come out about her.

01:34:50.320 He mentioned the egg lady.

01:34:51.400 That's the lady who they, the one lady who they thought was more predisposed towards voting 0.77

01:34:55.160 not guilty.

01:34:56.100 She got bounced off of the trial the day of the verdict.

01:34:59.120 And now and it was all because of things that were being alleged by Becky Hill. 0.94

01:35:04.020 And now it turns out that Becky Hill may have been trying to manipulate this verdict for 0.91

01:35:09.480 a prosecution verdict all along, because that's what that's what they're saying, that she was

01:35:13.800 kind of telling the jurors, don't believe him.

01:35:15.720 I don't I can't get enough of this.

01:35:17.820 I really hope he doesn't get a retrial because I agree with Will.

01:35:21.560 They got the right verdict the same time.

01:35:22.760 But if he does, we'll see how it goes.

01:35:26.300 Legal experts I've spoken to are saying they think it will go much better for Alec Murdoch

01:35:32.420 this time around because he's, you know, they probably won't put him on the stand.

01:35:37.340 He knows that they have this tape recording of him at the kennels.

01:35:42.140 So he's not going to tell the jury I was never at the kennels.

01:35:45.760 I mean, all of these statements are still on camera and the police have them.

01:35:49.380 So query how much misleading he'll be able to do.

01:35:52.060 But they've learned all the prosecution's tricks and their strategy, I should say, and

01:35:56.660 they'll be sure to litigate around them.

01:35:59.120 Anyway, happens, I think, January 29th will be all over for you.

01:36:03.040 So fear not.

01:36:04.600 OK, I want to say thank you to all of you for joining me today and all week.

01:36:08.200 Do me a favor.

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01:36:22.840 news you need to know in 60 seconds or less.

01:36:25.200 We always have an update on my sweet Strudwick, which continues to be the most clicked on item.

01:36:31.340 He's a star.

01:36:32.680 And don't forget that Monday is Iowa caucus day.

01:36:36.200 We'll have that fully covered for you.

01:36:38.000 Have a great weekend.

01:36:42.060 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

01:36:44.400 No BS, no agenda and no fear.

01:36:48.320 Thank you.

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01:36:51.560 Thank you.

01:36:54.920 Thank you.

The Megyn Kelly Show - January 12, 2024

Michelle Obama's Bitterness, and Bombshell Matthew Perry Allegations, with Jason Whitlock, Evita Duffy, Will Witt, and Will Folks ｜ Ep. 701

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