The Megyn Kelly Show - Michelle Obama Upstages Barack, Euros Love America, and 2028 Rumblings, with Rich Lowry and Charles C.W. Cooke ｜ Ep. 1341

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00:00:15.740 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:21.200 hey everyone i'm megan kelly welcome to the megan kelly show a lot of news to get to you

00:00:31.560 today including leftists hating america while europeans who are coming over for the world cup

00:00:37.100 are discovering how amazing our country is what's wrong with that picture but we begin today with

00:00:41.920 the politics unfolding around the iran deal vice president jd vance told us a bit about what's in

00:00:48.000 the agreement yesterday. And it's not sitting well with the president's newfound buddies.

00:00:54.920 The never Trump crowd that's more hawkish that now has been embracing him is having second

00:01:00.200 thoughts. The admin is under pressure from the more hawkish neocon right about what some are

00:01:07.300 now dubbing the Vance peace deal. This is the Vance peace deal. President Trump today obviously

00:01:14.200 feeling the pressure at the G7 in France because he was downplaying the agreement saying it's not

00:01:19.780 final and that bombs could even be dropping again soon. Watch. Is the tax day agreement now final

00:01:26.800 or are you still? No, it's not final. It's a memorandum of understanding. And if I don't like

00:01:31.300 it, we'll go back to shooting at them, dropping bombs on their head. If I don't like it, 1.00

00:01:38.780 if they don't behave, will go right back to dropping bombs right smack in the middle of 0.99

00:01:44.220 their head, okay? Because they've misbehaved for 47 years. All right? 0.99

00:01:51.900 Joining me now to react is a couple of guys we love from National Review,

00:01:58.280 because it's an NR day here at the MK Show. National Review editor Rich Lowry,

00:02:02.220 National Review senior editor Charles C.W. Cook. Go become an NR Plus subscriber now.

00:02:07.820 The other day I was on NR and they, I love NR.

00:02:10.980 I get so much of my news there and I couldn't find my little audio button because I love

00:02:15.560 that NR will read the articles to you.

00:02:17.380 They have a good AI over there.

00:02:18.800 And then I realized it was because I hadn't signed in.

00:02:21.560 I am an NR plus member.

00:02:23.020 If you sign in, suddenly, magically, all the articles become available to you to be read

00:02:28.900 by this lovely audio AI voice.

00:02:31.540 Thanks to Rich Lowry.

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00:02:38.740 That way you can get all the news while you're doing your makeup, doing your household chores, unloading the dishwasher.

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00:04:12.700 Agency, LLC, a licensed insurance agency. Thank you for that, Rich Lowry. Nice to see you. Nice

00:04:19.440 to see you too, Charlie. Going well. There's a lot going on. So I think it's very interesting.

00:04:25.440 The dynamics of the Iran deal are very interesting, aren't they?

00:04:30.500 Like we talked at length about this thing yesterday.

00:04:32.560 I opened the show with the reported deal terms, which have turned out to be the deal terms.

00:04:40.700 The administration is now saying those aren't necessarily the deal terms.

00:04:44.380 OK, I mean, like if they're not the deal terms, literally everybody who's connected to the agreement, who's put them out is wrong.

00:04:50.580 That could be the case.

00:04:51.700 but I'm going to go with these are the deal terms minus a couple of tweaks that we might get from

00:04:56.720 the admin. And J.D. Vance didn't seem to have any problem with my recitation of what they were

00:05:02.840 either. Okay, so let's assume those are the deal terms. If you want to hear them, you can go back

00:05:06.960 and listen to yesterday's show open. But what's happening around it, Rich, is even more interesting

00:05:12.220 to me because clearly the more hawkish right hates this deal, hates it, and would like it to

00:05:20.940 be undone. And, you know, the more isolationist wing of the party is like, fine, whatever. Let's

00:05:27.260 let's get out. This hasn't worked out well. Let's just put a period at the end of it and stop the

00:05:31.960 bleeding, cut our losses, in other words. And you could hear in that soundbite that President Trump

00:05:37.080 is feeling the pressure, right? Like he wouldn't have said that, Rich, if he weren't getting a lot

00:05:42.980 of phone calls from that first group I just referenced. So what do you mean? Yeah, but it's

00:05:48.180 also it's not the kind of thing that's surprising to hear from him and is by the way technically a

00:05:52.760 violation of the first provision in this deal which is that you can't threaten force and of

00:05:58.600 course he's threatening force so look i'm not as i think it's a disappointing deal but i'm not as

00:06:03.220 shocked and outraged by it as some of my hawkish friends just because i thought this is where we

00:06:07.940 were headed for a very long time i i got bored talking about this on our own podcast because

00:06:14.240 we're constantly talking about, at least I was, Charlie was, MBD was, this is going to be a

00:06:19.060 disappointing outcome because we didn't win the war. Winning the war would have required at least

00:06:22.880 freeing up the Strait of Hormuz by force of arms, which had been very complicated, risky,

00:06:27.780 and protected operation that it became pretty clear early on that Trump just wasn't going to

00:06:31.880 undertake. So then you're dealing not over the nuclear program fundamentally, you're dealing

00:06:36.380 over reopening the strait. And my reading of this is it's basically a skinny deal. It's a trade

00:06:42.520 of a reopening of the strait, maybe with some form of tolling. The Memorandum of Understanding

00:06:49.460 doesn't say anything about tolling one way or the other in exchange for lifting the blockade

00:06:54.800 and for us letting them sell oil. Now, the other provisions, you read them at first blush,

00:07:00.840 they're pretty horrifying, but then you read them with the lawyer's eye and nothing's been

00:07:05.540 agreed to. It's all pending progress. It's all undertaking to come up with a plan. It's all

00:07:13.280 pending the final agreement. And I'm not sure any of that is going to happen. Now, there might be

00:07:17.820 pressure for it to happen because Trump's now said this deal is so great. You know, maybe he's vested

00:07:21.780 in it. Iran still has leverage over the strait. But my guess is you get a reopening, both the 0.87

00:07:28.860 blockade and the strait, and I'm not sure anything else is going to happen. Certainly, this is not

00:07:33.140 going to be resolved in 60 days. There's going to be an extension. That is the best analysis I have

00:07:38.920 heard of what actually happened here. Honestly, thank you for that clarity. I think that's

00:07:43.540 exactly right. We decided to leave is what happened. Thank God, because it wasn't going

00:07:49.460 well and it wasn't going anywhere. It could only get worse, you know, like the escalation trap.

00:07:54.580 And before you know it, we've got boots on the ground or, you know, there was a report that

00:07:58.680 Trump had mentioned the nuclear possibility. No, no, no. Right. So we decided to get out and we

00:08:05.740 needed to open the strait for world energy purposes. So we cut a deal that would allow

00:08:10.380 that to happen. We'll pull out the blockade. You open the strait. We'll give you some economic 0.65

00:08:15.120 incentives to do that and to not toll people at least for 60 days and maybe some additional

00:08:20.500 economic incentives for you to continue not doing that, not doing the tolling. And they said, OK,

00:08:25.820 that sounds good for now. And then we tabled all the really ugly stuff like, can you pursue

00:08:30.740 nuclear? What's going to happen to nuclear dust? What kind of inspections? If you can enrich

00:08:36.340 to what extent? All that stuff that they spent, I think, 18 months negotiating, Charlie,

00:08:42.520 under the Obama JCPOA that Trump said he hated and he tore up. He doesn't even want to kind of

00:08:48.160 go there. And I get why people who are very worried about Iran don't like it. But we lost

00:08:54.720 our leverage and so like we kind of don't have the muscle to force them to agree to anything

00:08:59.900 right now instead trump came in with a bunch of carrots saying on phase two if you're good boys

00:09:06.500 and girls over there we might make it worth your your while financially i agree with pretty much

00:09:12.360 all of that and this isn't being pedantic the one thing i would disagree with is you said we don't

00:09:16.300 have the muscle we do have the muscle but we don't have the will to use that muscle donald trump is

00:09:22.300 on this issue a lot more hawkish than the American public is. Now, I think that's probably a fact of

00:09:30.060 where Americans are, but also he made absolutely no effort to alter that. He didn't make a case

00:09:35.960 to the public. He didn't try and sway them initially. And so he ended up in a much more

00:09:41.320 hawkish position than the electorate. And that left him stranded where he'd gone in. He had

00:09:49.140 made some grand pronouncements about what we were going to achieve, most of which I thought were 1.00

00:09:54.360 worthwhile in a vacuum, getting rid of the terrible Iranian government, taking out their 0.98

00:09:59.720 nuclear program, and so forth. But then when they used their agency to fight back, mostly by closing 0.84

00:10:06.620 the Strait of Hormuz, Trump had a choice. He either escalated it, which would probably have included

00:10:12.180 boots on the ground and some more american losses um or he got out and i think that's what's

00:10:19.660 happened they've decided to get out because they're just not willing to pay that price

00:10:23.360 now the one caveat i have which i keep repeating is that in one sense is a failure of what they

00:10:29.580 were trying to do but i don't think it necessarily follows that we are in a worse place now than we

00:10:34.520 were prior to this, or at least prior to our bombing of the Iranian nuclear facilities

00:10:39.920 before this foray.

00:10:42.760 Yeah, that's a different story.

00:10:44.640 It's a different story. 0.53

00:10:45.680 But I think that to end up with, which is where we seem to be headed, an Obama-style 0.66

00:10:50.200 Iran deal, plus having taken out their nuclear facilities, is better than just an Obama-style 0.68

00:10:55.200 Iran deal.

00:10:55.720 But that doesn't change the fact that what Trump was talking about in the early days

00:10:59.860 of this has not come to fruition. And he misjudged his own or the American public's willingness to

00:11:06.200 take this to its conclusion. Yep, I agree. We could have had the bombing of the nuclear facilities 1.00

00:11:12.840 and an Obama style JCPOA Trump version without launching this war. We were negotiating it

00:11:19.740 when we bombed them. You know, that was the frustration of many of us. Like, what are we

00:11:23.800 doing? The June strike was good. We took out the three facilities. We like that. The nuclear dust 0.99

00:11:27.680 is buried. We like that, too. Why are we going back over there? Like, we're going to think

00:11:31.220 they're Navy. Were we ever really worried about the Iran Navy? I don't think we were. I mean,

00:11:35.520 Rich, I'm pretty sure that wasn't like something that kept the Pentagon up at night.

00:11:39.120 That was one of the weakest talking points through this whole thing is a total strategic

00:11:42.520 irrelevance. And we fell into the trap. We've fallen into it before during Vietnam. I'm

00:11:47.940 comparing this to Vietnam, but there's a trap of just counting up how much stuff you've hit

00:11:51.840 and therefore saying you're winning and you're achieving your strategic objectives when those

00:11:55.920 things are not necessarily related, as we found out here. So I think there are at least three

00:12:01.040 key misconceptions here. One, you take out the Ayatollah and the regime falls and ended up not

00:12:06.340 being true. Two, that you just do a four to six week campaign and then just close up shop when 0.71

00:12:11.860 you're ready to and, you know, say goodbye, we're done, which we couldn't do once they'd taken the

00:12:18.280 straight. And then three, in some ways, the original sin of this was not making any public

00:12:23.460 case for it, not going to Congress for a vote. Because when you're engaged in kind of a limited

00:12:28.060 war like this, one of the key constraints is how much political support you have. And when you

00:12:32.740 don't have any political support or limited political support going in, it's going to limit

00:12:36.900 your options. So again, reopening the strait would have been kind of the crux of the war as it

00:12:42.500 developed, but we couldn't do it because it would have probably required troops on the ground. You

00:12:46.640 might have lost a ship or two, God forbid, helicopters, maybe you lose a POW or two.

00:12:52.020 And just there's no way Trump was going to do that on behalf of what was at the outset, an unpopular war that was steadily becoming more unpopular.

00:13:01.120 Now, look, I agree with Charlie. I think the core achievement here is destroying their nuclear infrastructure, such as if they just wanted to start again right now, they couldn't.

00:13:10.140 Now, you could have done that with a more robust 12-day war, something short of what we did here. 0.97

00:13:14.700 And just final point, I think killing the Ayatollah, even though I was glad when it happened, and I understand the temptation to take that shot. 0.94

00:13:22.020 I think it was a key mistake because we got nothing from it strategically. 0.97

00:13:25.920 The regime didn't collapse.

00:13:27.040 The regime didn't moderate.

00:13:29.000 And it signaled from the outset, this is an existential fight, right?

00:13:34.140 Do everything you can.

00:13:35.700 Go close the strait.

00:13:36.980 Whereas if it had been a more limited campaign at the outset where you said, we're not targeting the leadership.

00:13:41.100 We've seen this before.

00:13:41.980 We did a version of it last year.

00:13:43.400 But if you go after the strait, then we target your leadership.

00:13:46.120 Then we know where all the bunkers are. 0.99

00:13:48.060 And you guys are going to die in the middle of the night.

00:13:50.120 Then maybe they don't close the strait.

00:13:51.620 But once they closed the strait and we hadn't properly prepared for it, a mistake that really goes to the top and Trump's over-optimism about everything.

00:13:59.360 He was over-optimistic about the war.

00:14:00.580 Now he's over-optimistic about the peace deal.

00:14:02.740 Once that happened, we were headed to inevitably, I think, to a disappointing outcome.

00:14:07.700 Well, that's another reason.

00:14:08.820 I mean, the number one reason that we, I think, are lamenting the fact that this was launched to begin with is the loss of our troops, our 13 military personnel.

00:14:17.780 But the other thing is the strait was open before we launched this war.

00:14:23.400 So after that June bombing 12 months ago of their nuclear facilities, we had what we needed.

00:14:28.480 There was really no reason to go back in there.

00:14:30.520 And we could have just said, we could have continued the negotiation that Whitcoff and Kushner were doing,

00:14:35.200 come up with some, again, like JCPOA, Trump version, where they agree and we have monitoring,

00:14:41.620 which we haven't been having since Trump tore up the JCPOA that Obama negotiated.

00:14:45.200 We haven't been having monitoring, which is one of the reasons why we had to bomb them.

00:14:49.560 But we could have renewed monitoring.

00:14:51.340 We could have had like some sort of we could have done all these deals like with the carrots and so we could have done that without all the carnage. 0.93

00:14:57.320 And we wouldn't have had to worry about the strait now being open, open, but controlled by Iran. 0.95

00:15:01.920 You know, like prior to this war, that wasn't a thing. 0.99

00:15:04.960 And now we're going to have to deal with this forevermore.

00:15:06.760 And unfortunately, it's almost like set an example for the world around that the waterways are a leverage point in war, in international relations.

00:15:20.120 You know, Charlie, that wasn't a thing prior to now, and now it is a thing.

00:15:24.520 So, I don't know, if you were talking to Trump a week ago, would you have said, do this, like, let's just wrap it up? Or would you have said, we have to wrap it up in a prettier way to appease more people, because you're going to lose support if you don't, if you can't clearly emerge as, quote, the victor?

00:15:46.920 Well, I don't think it would have mattered what I said to Donald Trump, because quite literally every single thing that he does, he casts as the greatest thing that has happened since the creation of the earth.

00:15:55.700 So this is very much in his wheelhouse.

00:16:00.240 This will have been a smashing victory.

00:16:02.540 The war will have been a smashing victory. 0.97

00:16:04.760 The peace will have been a smashing victory. 0.74

00:16:06.420 And if you look back a few years ago, he basically re-ratified NAFTA, but called it the Donald Trump free trade deal and wrote how beautiful it was and how awful the status quo ante was.

00:16:17.860 So we'll get that here.

00:16:20.680 Again, not to be pedantic, but the issue here, Megan, is that we're just not prepared to pay the price.

00:16:26.700 You were saying, well, we didn't have this problem with the waterways before.

00:16:29.960 The U.S. Navy plays largely the role in the world that the British Navy did prior to 1945.

00:16:35.660 That's keeping these waterways open.

00:16:38.200 The British Empire was quite willing to send gunboats and just shell anyone who got in the way of international trade.

00:16:43.100 The U.S. Navy has been as well.

00:16:45.520 But this one is a little bit different because this is not just the quotidian maintenance of the seas.

00:16:51.840 This is quite obviously the product of the war.

00:16:56.480 And that, I think, is the fatal problem that Trump encountered and where Iran recognized the pressure point that you described.

00:17:04.480 because there's only really two things that Americans would care about. 0.60

00:17:08.740 They're right to care about both of these things.

00:17:11.020 One is losing American soldiers.

00:17:13.320 Two is gas prices.

00:17:14.720 If Trump had gone into Iran and we hadn't lost any American soldiers

00:17:19.060 and gas prices had stayed precisely the same,

00:17:21.500 if there had been no economic fallout whatsoever from this,

00:17:24.480 I don't think the average person would have cared.

00:17:26.260 Maybe they should. Maybe they shouldn't.

00:17:28.280 But I don't think they would have.

00:17:29.280 I don't think the abstract criticisms of this sort of adventurism

00:17:32.820 resonate with most people.

00:17:34.280 they just get on with their lives but he just couldn't pay those two prices um and i just i

00:17:40.400 don't think that the triumphalism of which he is so fond uh was going to get him out of that he he's

00:17:46.360 learning here that there is only so much reality distortion that he is capable of uh and has come

00:17:54.940 late in his presidency uh but he's not managed to sell the war he didn't really try and he's not

00:18:00.320 managed to sell the piece either. And he's going to have to take his lumps on this one. And I say

00:18:05.200 that as somebody who really wanted this to work out, but he's just going to have to take his

00:18:08.960 lumps. And I think if I were giving him advice, back to your question, that's what I would say

00:18:13.780 to him. And then I'd say, move on. And please, for God's sake, if we're leaving Iran, if this

00:18:17.560 is done now, please talk about the economy. Yes, yes, yes, yes. We've got, you know, how many

00:18:23.360 months now? What, June? It happens in November. So five months, four and a half, for him to focus

00:18:28.560 like a laser on the economy. The gas prices, the oil prices are coming down. The gas prices have

00:18:33.440 come down a little, and he's just got to keep that rolling like strongly through the summer

00:18:38.020 and telegraph to the American people like, I'm on it. Trump would never say, I'm sorry,

00:18:44.200 right, that I was focused on something else. He will triple down and quadruple on,

00:18:49.940 they were going to get a nuclear weapon and I'm the one who stopped it. Okay, whatever.

00:18:53.840 But he's just got to make people actually feel he's focused on their issues.

00:18:57.860 But before we leave the politics of this, Rich, I love Brian Kilmeade.

00:19:02.620 I think he's a great guy.

00:19:03.300 He's actually a dear friend.

00:19:04.300 But I did think it was interesting.

00:19:05.460 He's more a hawkish guy.

00:19:07.120 And here's how he was speaking about the deal on Fox & Friends this morning.

00:19:11.800 Take a listen.

00:19:12.820 Israel has to, I guess, stop fighting back against Hezbollah, who's lobbing missiles at the northern part of their country.

00:19:19.040 This makes absolutely no sense.

00:19:22.040 It makes no sense.

00:19:22.940 Is everything that you said, I think the president would say?

00:19:25.940 I'm just wondering if the people that negotiated this have informed the president about what's in the page and a half he's going to read publicly on Friday.

00:19:34.020 And I would just say we were in a much better place before we saw the details of this MOU.

00:19:39.580 And unless President Trump can change this at the last minute and get good deals here, I would say that this memorandum of understanding is is worse than not having it.

00:19:48.360 Right. Next 24 hours, he could go in and do that. I hope he does.

00:19:51.400 Sorry, that wasn't actually the soundbite that I was referring to.

00:19:55.540 But there was one earlier on the curvy couch where Brian said it was the Vance peace deal.

00:20:02.300 Take a listen.

00:20:03.360 The MOU calls for the Strait of Hormuz to be reopened in the near term.

00:20:07.640 All right.

00:20:08.280 The MOU stipulates, quote, that Iran will make arrangements using its best efforts for the safe passage of commercial vessels with no charge for 60 days.

00:20:17.880 Hold on here.

00:20:18.880 Best efforts?

00:20:19.660 What do you mean best efforts?

00:20:21.200 Just back out of there. We'll pick up the mines, not best efforts. That's it. That's a specific vague language.

00:20:28.480 And what happens after 60 days? Word is they're going to get together with Oman and Iran's going to get together with Oman and charge tolls.

00:20:36.360 If that's the case, that's unacceptable for everybody. 0.63

00:20:41.140 Well, the good news is gas prices have gone down. So that's great.

00:20:43.940 If the strait is open, that helps. That helps with gas prices globally.

00:20:47.760 Here's the thing, though, Brian.

00:20:48.860 You're reading a list of what you think the deal looks like, possibly.

00:20:53.400 There's another list here in front of me.

00:20:55.420 There's another list here in front of you.

00:20:57.720 What does the real deal say?

00:21:00.160 What I just said was read to me from the memory of understanding, from someone who was holding it in his hand.

00:21:06.780 Okay.

00:21:07.340 All right.

00:21:08.420 Well, that seems very vague, then.

00:21:10.120 Very vague.

00:21:10.760 Very vague and concerning.

00:21:12.040 All I'm going to say is the vice president was here, did a wonderful job on every outlet, including The View.

00:21:16.100 but this is his deal it's not the president's deal and it's his deal and steve whitkoff and

00:21:22.300 jared cushion together i just hope they didn't let the president down because the president's

00:21:26.260 putting a lot of stock in them right and he has to he can't do everything himself i just hope they

00:21:31.020 didn't let him down we're starting to see like like mark teeson too my old pal from the kelly

00:21:36.200 file he called it the vance peace deal yesterday there are deal vance deal i'm not calling it

00:21:41.360 piece. And there does seem to be an attempt here, Rich, to carve out some space for J.D. Vance to

00:21:48.180 get all the blame for this terrible deal. And even Vance to me yesterday was like, oh, gee,

00:21:53.880 isn't that interesting how they're that's that's what they're calling it. And I wonder why. And I

00:21:59.140 think we all we all know why. Right. It's an attempt to, like, protect the president from

00:22:02.580 the political fallout here. Yeah. So I'm friends with both Brian and Mark. So I want to address

00:22:06.800 what they said. I'll say what I think about this. I don't get it at all. It's not the Vance peace

00:22:11.580 deal. It's only happening because Trump is so desperate for the peace deals. But we've seen

00:22:15.860 this, I think, from both sides within the right and both factions. He launches the war. People

00:22:21.320 say, oh, he's manipulated by B.B. Netanyahu into it. He's ending the war and they're saying, oh,

00:22:25.300 he's being manipulated by J.D. Vance into it. No, it's all Trump. You know, he wouldn't have

00:22:29.580 launched the war if he didn't want to do it. And he was over optimistic about it. He wouldn't do

00:22:33.060 this peace deal, if you weren't desperate to do it, and he's over-optimistic about it. Now,

00:22:36.660 I think that the potential downside to J.D., I mean, fundamentally, he needs to be a loyal

00:22:41.560 soldier. And I think as far as anyone can tell from the outside, he's tiptoed through the

00:22:46.680 raindrops. He apparently made it clear at the last meeting about this. He wouldn't do it if

00:22:51.780 he were president, but he'd support Trump. He's been a loyal soldier. And the thing he has to do

00:22:56.560 for 2028 for his nomination purpose is stay on the right side of Trump. So all indications he's

00:23:00.880 done that. But I do think he's created some hostages to fortune by being so optimistic about

00:23:08.160 this. The thing he said the other day, oh, it's really cool to see this regime. Now they realize

00:23:13.540 there's 47 years of hostility towards the United States was a mistake. I'll believe that when I

00:23:17.760 see it. I'm very skeptical. But he's got to reflect with the guy at the top does. So Trump

00:23:23.680 would never just say, well, look, this is the best we could do. It's not perfect. I wish it were

00:23:28.620 different. Maybe it won't even work out, but this is the best we can do. Half a loaf. It's got to be

00:23:34.580 the best thing ever, and they've got to be rational people now. Also, by the way, the regime change

00:23:39.660 stuff, we talked about this in the past, right? He still insists the regime has changed. At the

00:23:43.680 same time, he's now saying he also never cared about regime change. Which is it? He's just this

00:23:48.600 sui generis figure that is totally unique. He's not an isolationist. He's not a neocon. He's a

00:23:54.900 little both and neither at the same time. It's just Trump. And when he says, I'm MAGA, you know,

00:24:00.140 and I define MAGA foreign policy, there's just a huge element of truth to that.

00:24:05.260 It's very interesting to me because all these figures that, you know, were very pro-Trump when

00:24:09.720 he launched this, who hadn't backed him in 16, 20, or even 24, he wasn't their first choice at all. 0.58

00:24:16.600 But suddenly they loved him because he was going to bomb Iran. I went back and looked. 0.55

00:24:20.220 that I trust the president. I trust our president, trust the president. And now this week,

00:24:27.300 where's the memorandum of understanding? We need to see it. This deal looks terrible. It's a

00:24:32.040 disaster. If it's true, like this is a nightmare. We would have been better off never going into

00:24:36.960 the first. What happened to I trust the president? What happened? And honestly, Charlie, it kind of

00:24:41.660 puts the lie to the whole nonsense of like around this whole controversy, which is you're either

00:24:48.420 with the president or you're against him. It's bullshit. Like only true deep partisan hacks are 1.00

00:24:56.760 just knee jerk with the president or any politician in our business where you're a journalist and

00:25:04.460 you're a commentator on the news. I think you'll probably be with him sometimes and you'll be

00:25:09.240 against him other times. You'll have varying opinions depending on what he does. But I would

00:25:15.120 submit to you that the people who are backing Trump, who really wanted this war, did not look

00:25:21.280 at people like yours truly and say, it's OK to not back this. You're entitled to your opinion.

00:25:27.500 I feel like they're entitled to their opinion. You guys came on the first day this launched.

00:25:31.540 And I said, my husband agrees with you. I have no judgment for people who feel differently than I do.

00:25:37.060 But it's been very eye opening to watch the right eat itself because you weren't allowed

00:25:43.320 to not support this war.

00:25:44.840 But I guess now you are allowed

00:25:46.140 to not support the peace agreement,

00:25:48.280 notwithstanding your

00:25:49.140 I trust the president mantra.

00:25:51.580 While you're singing my song,

00:25:52.880 I've been writing this for 11 years

00:25:54.100 because people are so irritating

00:25:55.600 when it comes to Trump.

00:25:56.820 And I've said over and over again

00:25:58.280 that the one phrase

00:25:59.140 that I've never understood is,

00:26:00.860 are you on the Trump train?

00:26:02.420 What's that mean?

00:26:03.700 What do I mean?

00:26:04.340 Like permanently?

00:26:06.080 I don't really like him,

00:26:08.480 but he's right a lot,

00:26:09.520 does good things.

00:26:10.220 So I say that.

00:26:11.120 And then sometimes he's wrong.

00:26:12.520 And then I say he's really bad on this.

00:26:14.480 And that's how you're supposed to be as a free citizen.

00:26:16.420 If you do anything else, you're just offloading your conscience and your mind to someone else,

00:26:21.500 which is a really bizarre and really evil thing to do.

00:26:26.920 So the phrase, you know, well, I'll just trust the president.

00:26:29.320 That really should not leave the lips of anyone, especially an American, given our mistrust of government.

00:26:37.740 It's odd, though, that Trump has been trying that line out.

00:26:42.300 He's never quite expressed what it's for, but in recent weeks, he's been putting it out on social media where he says, be quiet, you know, trust me, it'll work out.

00:26:53.920 It always does. That's an almost verbatim recitation of these strange tweets.

00:27:01.180 No, that's not how it works.

00:27:04.100 You could say that at election time, you have to make a decision.

00:27:08.100 It's yes or no. And you can say that you should respect the office of the president.

00:27:13.260 But the president should not be telling people to stay quiet and trust him because it will always work out either.

00:27:19.940 That's the thing. You can't silence dissenting voices or just overcome objections to the president reversing himself on a campaign promise that was explicit and made repeatedly by saying, trust the president.

00:27:35.660 Just trust him. And if you don't, you're some sort of hater. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:27:41.820 I heard all the promises that we weren't going to do this. I understand he always said Iran can't 0.99

00:27:46.960 have a nuclear weapon. But there are some of us who don't believe that's what we're going into

00:27:50.940 Iran for, because we know he bombed their three nuclear facilities the previous June. We backed 0.93

00:27:56.500 him on that. We supported that. There are many people who said that was a good idea, but this

00:28:01.320 war wasn't. And you can't just overcome legitimate objections by being like, I trust the president

00:28:06.420 and you don't, and therefore you're a hater. It's just, it's been a very annoying thing.

00:28:09.940 But here's what interests me, Rich, about the divide now between Republicans, right? I mean,

00:28:15.880 we're always going to be fighting the left for all the reasons the three of us have been discussing

00:28:19.600 for six years. But what's going to happen? Because as I said to J.D. Vance yesterday,

00:28:25.300 as soon as those midterms are over, 2028 is on. And the candidates are going to start

00:28:30.880 claiming their lanes, going on book tours, some are at it even sooner, you know, going to state

00:28:39.740 fairs and what have you just to make sure they're out there and they're getting their name and so

00:28:43.160 on. And at the moment, the right is incredibly divided. And I think, you know, my short form

00:28:50.400 judgment is the neocons would prefer a Marco Rubio and the non-interventionalists would

00:28:56.760 prefer a J.D. Vance. And that fight will play out. But I do wonder whether the right can come

00:29:03.160 together to support any candidate, like whether the neocons could ever vote for a J.D. Vance,

00:29:08.800 whether the non-interventionists could ever vote for a Marco Rubio or a greater hawk,

00:29:17.760 you know, someone like a Tom Cotton or a Ted Cruz. I like I just don't know. Maybe I'm being

00:29:23.960 naive. Maybe they've come together over fights bigger than this in the past. Nothing's coming

00:29:28.440 to mind. I don't remember one where the right was this divided as we head into election season.

00:29:34.580 There have been lots of divides over time. And just in a general election, when you have two

00:29:38.380 choices, the partisan gravity to get on board with your candidate, because let's say it's

00:29:45.120 marco and non-interventionists aren't particularly happy are they really going to prefer aoc or gavin

00:29:49.920 newsom or kamala harris same thing with jd he has the highest chances obviously of winning the

00:29:55.380 nomination but are you going to be happier with an aoc let me just throw let me just throw one

00:30:01.040 other curveball for your analysis before you go any further i agree with you the vast majority

00:30:06.480 of republicans would prefer a righty to a lefty but there's also a contingent that would stay home

00:30:11.300 Just like I'm not motivated at all and I can't cast a vote for this person. But but putting that to the side, I predict there's going to be a third kind of candidate. And I think the person will probably run as a Republican. And I think it's going to be a Tulsi Gabbard.

00:30:26.960 Oh, as an independent general election candidate.

00:30:30.400 Yeah, even like a Tucker Carlson, somebody who represents the more isolationist wing, who's going to say a pox on both their houses.

00:30:38.580 These were campaign promises that were near and dear to millions of people's hearts.

00:30:43.720 And that person could they're not going to get any neocon support, but that person could get Democrat support if they were to get the nomination.

00:30:53.000 But I predict this will be a new and important strain in the 2828 election versus what we've seen in years past.

00:31:00.240 So, yeah, it wouldn't shock me if there's an America-only MTG-style candidate in the Republican primers.

00:31:08.720 It's unlikely to see who could win the nomination coming out of that wing.

00:31:15.540 But J.D. wants to – he's more over on that side than he is with the neocons, obviously.

00:31:22.020 But as he said with you, I disagree with John Podort's criticism of this deal.

00:31:27.620 But, of course, he has a place in the Republican Party.

00:31:29.080 So someone who wants to be president of the United States needs to sound like that.

00:31:33.080 Can't be a factional leader.

00:31:35.500 But again, I just think that the threat from the Democrats is going to be so grave next time around.

00:31:40.520 If they get unified control of Washington, there's going to be a serious attempt to eliminate the filibuster, impact the Supreme Court, and add states.

00:31:48.460 I mean it's a near existential question for our system.

00:31:53.520 And I also think most ordinary voters, we care a lot about these foreign policy questions.

00:31:57.440 We debate them a lot.

00:31:59.080 I'm not sure how central they are for average Republicans.

00:32:05.920 I just don't think they're doctrinal enough on that to say, oh, you know, it's Marco.

00:32:12.200 He's more neocon than J.D.

00:32:14.560 I'm with Tulsi in an independent bid.

00:32:16.380 I just don't see that happening.

00:32:18.580 The only reason to disagree with that, and I'm not sure I do, is the polling on Iran, which is it's incredibly unpopular.

00:32:27.380 It's unpopular with Republicans.

00:32:28.880 It's unpopular, hugely unpopular with Democrats, but the independents are all against it too.

00:32:34.800 So there's, I don't know, there's definitely a large strain of people who voted for Trump

00:32:40.540 in 2024 from the independent lean in particular, and some of those low propensity voters who

00:32:46.420 got out for him that are mad.

00:32:48.700 They're mad over this.

00:32:49.660 They're mad over Epstein.

00:32:50.440 They're mostly mad over the economy, Charlie.

00:32:52.660 And they might be open-minded to somebody who's even more of an economic populist than

00:32:58.580 Trump and also is promising not to get us into any foreign entanglements and could really sell the

00:33:05.080 I can't be bought by any interest group, you know, Thomas Massey style. I don't know. I'm not sure

00:33:11.340 whether that person can win on a national level, but I do think it could be a potential spoiler

00:33:15.200 in the Republican primaries. Well, I think that the risk is much greater in the general election.

00:33:21.340 the primary election is going to be fought between people who are really interested

00:33:30.460 in politics i would push back against your groups because i think neocon versus non-interventionist

00:33:39.940 those are those are groups but they're not the only two they're not the biggest two

00:33:46.160 I would say most people now aren't neocons. Neocon was a really, it was a particular point in time. Not only are neocons and non-interventionists not the main categories, but I would suggest that most people who identify as conservatives or who vote Republican sort of sit somewhere in the middle, don't particularly care, but they sit somewhere in the middle of those things.

00:34:12.800 um and trump himself depends on the conflict well it does but also trump himself uh sounds like both

00:34:19.720 of them you know sometimes trump sounds very hawkish as he has here sometimes he sounds like

00:34:23.980 a jacksonian sometimes he sounds like a non-interventionist or even an isolationist

00:34:27.980 he's been called all sorts of names and that's because he contains multitudes so um i don't

00:34:33.360 particularly like the the the setup because i i don't think those are the groups what i do think

00:34:39.280 is possible, not necessarily because of this Iran war, but the situation you suppose, where a third

00:34:47.060 party comes along, I think it's possible as a general matter, because more and more Americans

00:34:53.760 have moved into a non-partisan camp. And that has left the two parties more on the wings. And

00:35:03.380 primaries tend to elevate the people who are the most enthusiastic about politics within those two

00:35:09.260 parties so at some point it does seem possible to me that someone will come along in the middle

00:35:13.780 maybe using some of this populist energy uh and spoil an election i don't think they'd win but

00:35:19.940 spoil an election that said the u.s does have a two-party system not because there are some

00:35:25.480 shadowy figures on the wings who are dictating that but just because the way our system is set

00:35:30.960 up um and it's quite difficult uh for that third party i mean ross perot tried twice he may have

00:35:38.160 played spoiler well elon if elon musk can't get it going with his trillion dollars which he did

00:35:42.920 consider you know well i mean elon musk it's not the average joe is not going to make it happen yeah

00:35:47.440 and and elon musk has the unfortunate uh position megan of of uh taking the view of politics that i

00:35:54.120 hold which is shared by about three percent of the public right which is that we need to get our

00:35:58.560 fiscal house in order um which involves uh balancing budgets and uh cutting benefits and

00:36:05.260 reforming social security no one wants no one wants to do that uh and and so you know elon musk

00:36:10.000 is looking at it as an engineer uh but engineers don't make good politicians so um yeah it could

00:36:15.820 happen uh but i i just think i don't want to discount politics as somebody who writes about

00:36:20.440 it for a living but i'm not even suggesting a third party run because i mean maybe you could

00:36:25.000 get on the ticket by going green party or libertarian but i i'm thinking this will happen

00:36:28.680 within the republican party in the fight and it'll especially happen if jd chooses not to run

00:36:35.160 That's what Trump is, right?

00:36:36.320 Now I think he is going to run.

00:36:36.600 That's what, I mean, he can't run again.

00:36:38.800 But that's what has already happened within the Republican Party.

00:36:41.660 That's what 2016 was.

00:36:43.280 It was someone who came along, looked at all of those people on the stage, the other 16 people, and said, yeah, yeah, all of your categories are bunk.

00:36:50.960 I'm a populist and a common sense guy, and I'm taking over the party.

00:36:55.500 And I just...

00:36:56.160 I guess what I'm saying is this person would really mean it.

00:36:58.700 Like, this person really would be a non-interventionist across the board, would definitely be making Israel an issue, which it is now for all Democrats, most independents, some Republicans, and run as an economic populist as well.

00:37:14.700 I mean, like, those three I named, I think all three of them would do it, and MTG, too, and Thomas Massey was another.

00:37:21.380 I'm like, anyone could fill this particular niche.

00:37:24.020 And if they do do it, J.D. Vance is going to have to fend off that challenge more than a Marco Rubio is.

00:37:29.500 Yeah, but it's a niche.

00:37:30.100 It's almost like I think there's only one spot for this person.

00:37:33.720 I want to keep going because to your point, we're going to have that contest.

00:37:39.180 We're going to come up with a Republican nominee and some faction of the GOP is going to be unhappy and thinking maybe I'm just going to sit on my sofa come November.

00:37:47.440 That'll be my middle finger to the world.

00:37:49.520 And then they might see this.

00:37:51.340 I'm going to stick with you for this, Charlie.

00:37:53.060 They might see this.

00:37:54.260 And you tell me, if you were sitting on your couch, contrary to what you just told us, your plans are.

00:37:59.080 You got it, you know, whatever, two-party system.

00:38:00.840 And you saw this.

00:38:02.620 Would it get you off the couch and down to your local polling station?

00:38:07.640 Sat 30.

00:38:09.400 This just happened on Tuesday.

00:38:11.820 As the governor said, it's where we should be unstoppable in knowing that there is so much that has already been done.

00:38:19.140 and can be done what to make the difference in a way that builds industries and creates

00:38:27.960 efficiencies and creates leadership around helping the people see what can be unburned by

00:38:37.460 is she drunk she sounds drunk totally do you know what that looks like it looks like a parody

00:38:48.160 of public access television from the 90s the background that they're switching out the mics 0.95

00:38:53.940 even though the mic was working did they think that the microphone was making her slow her words

00:39:00.020 it's a quick get her a new one the mic was the problem she actually needed a coffee she was with

00:39:04.500 arnold schwarzenegger at a climate speech in austria and who the hell knows what point she

00:39:12.200 was trying to make with if you listen to the longer version it doesn't get any better but

00:39:16.260 she hasn't changed charlie she has not changed at all you'll be glad to know and you know people

00:39:22.700 think the reason she's doing these events is because and the book and the book tour she really

00:39:28.120 does believe she could get out there so to your point that would be a big motivator no matter who

00:39:32.580 they nominate on team red yeah and and also i mean not to relitigate the last conversation but i

00:39:38.360 think that the parties are not entirely rational, but they're quite rationally sorted. And so what

00:39:46.620 you've described probably doesn't have enough purchase within the Republican Party to win the

00:39:51.940 Republican nomination, precisely because it's so well represented on the other side. And

00:39:58.280 partisanship, negative partisanship, which I don't think it's a bad thing, incidentally,

00:40:03.040 I think I'm not in favor of mindless partisanship. But you hear this line in our politics that being against things is bad. You need to be for things. You should be for things. I'm for things. Being against things is also totally fine. It is totally rational and acceptable within a democracy to say, I don't want that. I don't like that person. I don't want to change this. I don't want to increase that tax. I don't want to open the border. You don't have to be you don't have to provide some alternative. You can just say no.

00:40:30.320 in fact it it's often a sign of great satisfaction a lot of uh politics in the 1990s when people were 0.99

00:40:37.660 pretty happy and the economy was well was just don't do that um so i think she she would provide

00:40:43.380 a massive don't do that uh for anyone who's on the center right whatever you do now while we're

00:40:50.840 on the subject of presidential politics rich i've got to ask you about the obama library okay you're

00:40:56.200 not going to believe this. I don't know if you saw this, but the Obama library is going to be

00:41:01.980 the official home of the latest Obama portrait that has just been unveiled. It will be hung in

00:41:07.740 the museum's hope and change lobby. Hope and change lobby. It opens on Thursday. It's going

00:41:17.540 to cost you a mere $30 to get in so you can see this in person and you will be greeted,

00:41:23.280 Wait until you see this by a nine by 10 foot work by artist Jideka Akunyul Crosby.

00:41:33.360 It's a drawing. All right. Now, at first blush, I don't know if you've seen this.

00:41:39.500 You tell me, does anything jump out at you as a little off about this portrait, which is for the President Barack Obama Library and Museum, Rich?

00:41:51.880 are you referring to the figures not being quite completed towards the sitting at the back

00:41:56.180 he's in the back oh yeah yeah she looks like she was president and he looks like he was first

00:42:03.080 partner as jennifer newson calls herself typical in presidential portraits to have the first lady

00:42:08.580 with you maybe it is yeah but she's very prominent and it's so self-important with all the symbiosis

00:42:12.820 the symbolism about plants you know there are certain plants associated with the obamas it's

00:42:18.680 It's all about things in her past, you know, or in the background or dad's car.

00:42:23.180 Yes.

00:42:23.620 All this stuff.

00:42:24.820 Let me tell you, it's not by accident.

00:42:27.540 OK, here's the story.

00:42:29.480 This Crosby artiste says the portrait is about putting Michelle on the same level as Barack.

00:42:37.320 Quote, I was thinking of a composition that would not preference one Obama over the other, but to treat them equally.

00:42:44.760 It's like, yes, he was the president and she is this incredible, powerful, amazing, super respected person.

00:42:53.060 They are like equal, says the artist.

00:42:57.060 And that's what's going to greet you in the hope and change lobby, Rich.

00:43:01.100 There you go. Yeah. I know maybe it's necessary to keep the marriage together.

00:43:04.160 I don't judge other people's marriages, but she's a talented artist, this lady.

00:43:09.640 But I think the portrait is absurd.

00:43:11.260 Now, the likenesses are good, but otherwise, all the stuff in the background, and it's just way too self-important.

00:43:18.200 But I think technically well done, unlike the statue.

00:43:21.680 I don't know whether you have an image of the statue.

00:43:23.900 Of both of them, of course, equal standing is going to be part of this Obama plex, but it's very poorly done.

00:43:33.060 Someone said of Lafayette he was a statue looking for a pedestal.

00:43:35.720 Maybe that's true of both Barack and Michelle, but they're not going to look very good on

00:43:40.800 their pedestal.

00:43:42.180 Here's what author Joshua Lysak wrote on X, Charlie, that Michelle's in front, as you

00:43:50.460 noted. 0.66

00:43:51.660 She's facing the viewer directly.

00:43:54.300 Barack isn't back.

00:43:56.100 Michelle's in the seat of power.

00:43:57.860 Barack is leaning into Michelle, right?

00:44:01.120 Not like he's in the supportive role.

00:44:04.000 Michelle's centered.

00:44:04.660 Barack's off center. Michelle is in a more dominant masculine pose with like the arms out,

00:44:11.420 the elbows out to the side, you know, like just try it, just try it. And 0.91

00:44:17.000 and then he points out that this is this is not going to help with her nickname,

00:44:23.420 basically. But, you know, she's in this more masculine pose and he's in more sort of a feminine

00:44:29.080 on the table. He doesn't even have a chair. And yeah, you would think that she were the

00:44:33.980 president of the united states and by the way you won't be shocked to hear michelle is the one who

00:44:37.340 picked this crosby for the product saying she's wanted her for to work with them for for a while

00:44:43.640 now now we see why so i'm gonna get in trouble for saying this but she seems to hate him michelle 0.55

00:44:49.660 obama seems to hate barack obama like everything she says on her podcast is horrible i mean she

00:44:57.420 she i'm not saying of course your wife doesn't view you as the greatest person who's ever lived

00:45:01.800 she lives with you and she knows all of your flaws but i mean he's an intelligent guy he's

00:45:07.560 a sort of tall guy he doesn't seem to have stepped out in his family he was president of the united 0.99

00:45:11.800 states twice but she talks about him like he's a total moron you know the complaint you hear from 1.00

00:45:17.000 men about sitcom dads that they're always idiots yeah there's never a positive role model in 1.00

00:45:23.320 sitcoms um she talks about him a little bit like that um and it's i i just think it's weird that 0.98

00:45:30.520 that she spends all of her time on her podcast

00:45:32.500 complaining about having been first lady,

00:45:34.300 complaining about having been married to Obama,

00:45:36.380 saying fairly mean things about Obama.

00:45:39.400 And then they suddenly have a portrait together

00:45:41.260 for the opening of his library,

00:45:42.320 and he's in the back.

00:45:44.360 It seems not very odd to me.

00:45:44.940 Yeah, so Tim Walton was pretty much selected

00:45:46.140 to be the sitcom dad, right?

00:45:47.820 That was his role,

00:45:49.300 and he fulfilled it very well.

00:45:52.320 But Obama, you know, I'm not an Obama fan,

00:45:54.340 but he has a certain swagger to him,

00:45:56.840 but you wouldn't guess it from that portrait.

00:45:59.680 He used to.

00:46:00.520 Yeah, exactly. He used to. And then they showed a picture. They put out a picture of the two of

00:46:04.860 them looking at the picture for the first time, I guess, in the hope and change lobby. And look

00:46:10.940 at this. They're miserable in the portrait that was drawn of them. They're they're smileless. 0.96

00:46:16.100 And now the two of them actually looking at the portrait, they are smileless like they put this

00:46:21.480 out. They they want to project. We're not joyful. We're kind of pissed off. They're in all black,

00:46:27.440 by the way, like she's got this long black dress and he appears to be wearing a dark suit, either

00:46:31.440 black or the darkest gray. So the whole thing is sort of macabre, Rich, which dovetails perfectly

00:46:38.700 with what we've heard from him and her since they left office. You know, her confessional about how

00:46:44.340 she burst out into tears when she was in the helicopter leaving the inauguration of Trump 0.96

00:46:49.540 because it was just so hard what we expected of them because they were black. This is a black 1.00

00:46:55.660 reference because they're black. She had to be perfect, you know, because no other first lady 1.00

00:47:00.600 has ever felt that way. Just she did because she was black. And, you know, the racist American 1.00

00:47:04.340 people got lecture to thereafter about how braids she wore her braids in her first

00:47:08.760 portrait in 2022 saying I did this because I wanted to have this in front of me. This is

00:47:16.260 that I wanted to send a message we have. Is this a shot? Yeah, here it is. Okay. Yeah. This is

00:47:23.560 what she said she's so burdened as black women we deal with it the whole thing about do you show

00:47:28.260 up with your natural hair you know um break y'all you know but but you know as first lady i did not

00:47:39.160 wear braids the first black yeah yeah i just we gotta ease up on the people you know just like

00:47:48.780 Because I thought about it. I was like, it would be easier.

00:47:55.600 Nope, nope, they're not ready.

00:47:58.580 They're not ready. Whitey, not ready. White, racist America. She could take a lesson rich 1.00

00:48:05.440 from the Europeans, from the German guy touring the country right now.

00:48:09.860 Yeah, it's a lovely place. She makes it sound as though she's one of the most victimized

00:48:14.500 people in America when she's really one of the most privileged people in America.

00:48:17.360 You know, working class upbringing, but great parents.

00:48:20.360 I love her stories about her dad, given every advantage and privilege on her way up in education and early employment.

00:48:27.560 And then she's a world conquering celebrity, not really having done anything right.

00:48:32.760 She didn't start a business. 0.93

00:48:34.340 She didn't come up with any new idea.

00:48:36.340 She was Brock's wife.

00:48:37.300 Now, she's become quite a skilled communicator, but that's not the biggest thing in the world, right?

00:48:43.260 So are you.

00:48:44.400 Yeah.

00:48:44.620 And no one would care about her being a skilled communicator if she weren't Barack's wife. 0.79

00:48:48.800 And here she is, you know, in a painting in the Hope and Change Lounge and has a statute and everyone's hanging on her every word.

00:48:54.840 What is there for her to be unhappy about?

00:48:57.600 Can I just add to this? 0.82

00:48:58.720 Because this is the thing that annoys me the most about the Obamas is that the thing that I like the most about Barack Obama is that he's black.

00:49:08.620 by which I mean that I really do think it was a remarkable and beautiful thing that in 2008 a

00:49:14.840 country that had had Jim Crow and slavery elected a black man as president I think that was an

00:49:20.080 affirmation of the Declaration of Independence and the American creed that's the thing I liked about

00:49:24.760 him and then everything else he ever did I hated so it's really quite irritating being told oh well

00:49:31.140 you just did we used to get this in the Obama administration at National Review people say well

00:49:34.660 whatever obama does you'll oppose it and i wrote this piece once saying just think about what

00:49:38.860 you've just said do you really think that if barack obama woke up tomorrow morning and said

00:49:42.740 you know what i've now realized that my politics were wrong i'm now a pro-free market pro-life

00:49:48.780 pro-constitution conservative i love the second amendment i'm for small government and federalism

00:49:56.880 and i think we should do the paul ryan tax plan do you think we'd have gone oh no now we have to

00:50:02.460 be against all of those things. I mean, it would have been the greatest day in the world. We'd have

00:50:05.960 got the champagne out at 11am. So this idea that the reason that people disliked him was because

00:50:10.720 of that, I just think it's very annoying. That was the thing I liked about him the most.

00:50:14.920 Here, our crack team, since we do cover this beat a fair amount, it's not my fault. They keep

00:50:19.500 putting themselves out there. Remember when Barack Obama went and lectured all the men in

00:50:23.760 was in middle America about how they were misogynists if they didn't get behind Kamala

00:50:27.880 Harris? Like, they both had prominent speaking roles at the Democratic National Convention.

00:50:32.380 He was out there this week ripping on Trump in this Iran deal.

00:50:35.360 Like they keep putting themselves out there.

00:50:37.200 So fine, let's talk about it.

00:50:39.340 But here to your point, Charlie, is what she said about them recently. 0.81

00:50:43.340 It's one of the reasons why she's so miserable.

00:50:45.260 And even in my marriage now, you know, you go through the period of I want him to be

00:50:49.940 different.

00:50:50.540 I want him to do this differently.

00:50:52.400 I've grown to know I don't have control over him, just like he doesn't have control over

00:50:56.760 me.

00:50:57.120 So let me do my work and let him do our work. And together, we come together as whole people.

00:51:05.520 I go to therapy. We've been in couples therapy. I believe in the practice of having those

00:51:11.420 conversations with objective people who help you piece through that stuff. And it's a constant,

00:51:18.700 it's constant work.

00:51:20.260 is that how you talk about your wives everyone's in therapy it's non-stop work this marriage

00:51:28.140 notice the construction she said let me do my work let him do our work and then together

00:51:35.020 not quite sure that came out right

00:51:39.800 i don't i don't think that would fly in my marriage i'm not sure how it would go in yours

00:51:45.260 but i'm sure doug would really not appreciate me constantly being out there telling everybody

00:51:48.960 all of his flaws, how much work the marriage is, how I can't stand him doing this, that,

00:51:55.360 the other, and never a word of praise. That's the other thing. She never says,

00:51:59.880 but he's great in this way, but he takes such good care of me, but he made me a household name.

00:52:04.540 No, nothing. Same for our country. Our country and Barack Obama are in the same place in Michelle

00:52:10.200 Obama's heart, down at the bottom with a dark hue around them and something to be disdained.

00:52:17.380 Okay, got to take a break. We're going to come back with Rich and Charlie, and there's plenty

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00:53:34.360 Back with me on this NR Day National Review are Rich Lowry and Charlie Cook. Rich, we found the

00:53:41.040 statue to which you referred outside of the Obama library. And at first glance, I didn't know what

00:53:46.220 you were talking about. It's like the two of them walking in a walking shot for the listening

00:53:51.040 audience. They've got like their arms around each other and their other their free hands are waving

00:53:55.220 to imaginary crowds. And then we zoomed in, Rich. Then we zoomed in on their faces. This is not

00:54:04.660 and accurate or flattering likeness at all.

00:54:09.440 You could argue it's almost racist, right?

00:54:11.580 If it were done by a critic of Obama,

00:54:13.000 you'd say it's racist.

00:54:14.400 He's weirdly elongated his arms as well.

00:54:18.260 It's not Michelangelo-level stuff.

00:54:20.120 I think the face looks like Ron Howard.

00:54:22.620 Yeah, he looks like Ron Howard.

00:54:23.500 He looks like Ron Howard.

00:54:25.920 Doesn't he?

00:54:26.420 Yeah, he looks like Ron Howard.

00:54:27.340 That was...

00:54:28.340 And we zeroed in on her face

00:54:34.480 and i don't know who she looks like but i can tell you this it's not michelle obama i maybe

00:54:40.440 sally phil yes oh you're two for two two for two that's what i was going with yeah

00:54:46.660 right i don't i knew some someone once who was uh uh he is a fairly wealthy successful businessman

00:54:54.100 he liked art so he he got all these replicas of famous pieces of of west famous western paintings

00:55:01.280 But they're all done in China. So so everyone had slightly slanty eyes in the Mona Lisa was slanty eyes. 0.89

00:55:06.940 So this guy, yeah, he must not have been working off pictures of Michelle and Barack or I don't know what happened.

00:55:14.200 I mean, at least in these they're smiling. You would think they'd want to smile for their official portrait in the hope and change lobby.

00:55:21.680 Like you want to telegraph hopefulness, which is not the dour, angry, you know, grimace.

00:55:27.800 But it was true to life. I'll give him that. Now, Michelle Obama is kind of in the news in connection with our next story, which is the meltdown over the UFC event on the White House lawn continues on the left.

00:55:42.160 The latest is from Sheryl Crow. So people are mad. They're mad that that one fighter said Michelle Obama is a man at the end of his fight. They don't like that. I get it. That's not a nice thing to say. And if you're a Michelle Obama fan, you definitely don't like it.

00:55:57.800 I mean, it was a joke, whatever.

00:56:01.200 But they're not really mad about it.

00:56:02.680 That's not why they're ripping on this thing.

00:56:04.800 They're mad that UFC fighters were on the White House lawn, that President Trump had

00:56:11.480 this big event, that he's in office for the 250th.

00:56:15.440 They're mad about that.

00:56:16.740 They don't want him as the emcee of this celebration.

00:56:21.660 And that brings me to Sheryl Crow.

00:56:24.320 So she, I've got to get my readers for this because it's a lot.

00:56:27.800 She posted the following online.

00:56:31.260 OK, she said she wrote to stay quiet in response to this means to turn a blind eye.

00:56:38.320 And so I am saying this.

00:56:40.080 What happened on the lawn of the White House was disgraceful and void of decency.

00:56:43.960 Powerful, rich people filled the lawn to watch a violent sport that ended with a vile and racist comment, all while the average American cannot afford health care, gas and cost of living.

00:56:54.600 Do not be fooled.

00:56:55.620 This administration is corrupt and does not give a damn about the American people. 0.58

00:57:00.120 It only cares about making money hand over fist at the expense and in spite of our democracy. 0.83

00:57:06.200 If we continue to support this kind of distraction from reality, we are no better than them.

00:57:12.040 Let's be better, America.

00:57:15.040 And it wasn't just Sheryl Crow, guys.

00:57:19.300 There is a guy posted this on the Daily Wire.

00:57:22.980 it was a great article called leftists hate americans who love america and he pointed out that

00:57:28.580 a mark teason back to mark had been praising the ufc event as trump opening the doors to regular

00:57:36.180 americans the kind who enjoy motocross rallies and monster truck shows new york times columnist

00:57:41.860 michelle goldberg we've discussed her before responded by sneering that if you're okay with

00:57:48.260 that, you're an elitist snob in reverse. Quote, like ultimate fighting, porn is extremely popular, 0.63

00:57:55.440 but I somehow doubt Thiessen would defend a Democratic president who invited a bunch of

00:57:59.620 OnlyFans creators to the Oval Office while he was losing a war. Then there's Jim Acosta,

00:58:06.420 who had on his show historian Heather Cox Richardson, who's extremely popular with leftists,

00:58:13.000 who said the following, quote, it's not really a stretch to say that the same impulse that created

00:58:21.080 the UFC fight on the White House lawn is the impulse that really pushed lynching in the late

00:58:27.800 19th century. Wait, we have that on camera. Let's watch that together. In the Gilded Age,

00:58:33.360 you did not have this open display of denigration of American symbols and American values.

00:58:42.560 And that, you know, for all the facts you might have disagreed with Carnegie about how you should build up the United States or with J.D. Rockefeller, they still argued that they were offering a way forward for the United States that would make it better for everybody.

00:58:58.340 Now, and they were quite open about that.

00:59:00.320 I mean, again, you don't have to agree with them, but they at least said that.

00:59:03.160 What you are watching Trump do right now is deliberately tear that apart.

00:59:07.740 And he is doing so on the same cultural argument, of course, that people use to back the first Gilded Age.

00:59:15.220 That is these culture wars that turn white Americans against marginalized people of color.

00:59:21.760 That's the bottom line there.

00:59:23.580 So, I mean, it's not really a stretch to say that the same impulse that created the UFC fight on the White House lawn is the impulse that really pushed lynching in the late 19th century against black Americans overwhelmingly.

00:59:37.740 i love acosta's react make it make sense oh yeah yeah so wise look we talked about this the other

00:59:47.980 day in our podcast i wouldn't do it i think it's a little gauche i would just do easter egg rolls

00:59:52.940 and christmas decorations and signing ceremonies but we passed that a long time ago they light up

00:59:58.300 the white house for different colors for different events etc and the imagery around this thing is

01:00:03.820 just extraordinary. The ones you showed, they're so well done, right? They're so patriotic.

01:00:10.280 And this is a mainstream American sport that's extremely popular, overtook prize fighting a long

01:00:17.220 time ago. And it wasn't just Jeff Bezos there. I know Zuckerberg was there, but it wasn't

01:00:21.280 billionaires. It was a lot of military guys. A lot of military guys. People who got tickets

01:00:27.160 through a lottery or whatever it was. We have a colleague in Washington, D.C., who's not a big

01:00:31.480 UFC fan, but managed to go. Her boyfriend invited her and had a great time. And by the way,

01:00:36.840 something that's been weirdly underappreciated or underplayed, there was no kidding, really

01:00:41.660 serious, as far as we can tell, terror plot around this event to attack this event. And not just a

01:00:48.000 lone wolf, one crazy person, but apparently was a really serious cell that had a multi-layered

01:00:53.960 plan to create mayhem and death around an event that ultimately, yeah, it's about Trump and 0.82

01:00:59.400 glamorizing himself and doing what he likes that's his character and his persona but also

01:01:05.360 the flyovers and the flags it's it's patriotic imagery that shouldn't be partisan but unfortunately

01:01:12.220 is yeah it's just like i what slavery and jim crow to have the ufc so okay what do you think 0.95

01:01:23.420 of it charlie all of those people are crazy with the exception of heather cox richardson 1.00

01:01:27.640 who's a disgraceful cynic. Heather Cox Richardson's job is to tell credulous, upper middle class 1.00

01:01:33.960 white women, including Jim Acosta, that their conception of this president is backed by the 1.00

01:01:41.180 worst parts of American history. That is what Heather Cox Richardson does. She finds things 1.00

01:01:46.600 from history and then connects them to what's happening today and tells people who've never

01:01:50.800 thought about history in any serious way that their instincts are correct. Now, I wouldn't

01:01:56.740 have done this because i don't want our imperial presidency you know my views on this i'm a calvin

01:02:01.620 coolidge guy i would like the president to be quiet but it didn't matter i don't like it but

01:02:08.740 it didn't matter it's a bit like the kennedy center i don't think trump should have put his

01:02:13.100 name on it i think it's probably illegal but it's not the most important thing in the world

01:02:17.720 jim acosta did you see the video of him outside the kennedy center when they were supposed to be

01:02:23.080 taking trump's name off it so this behavior you've just seen with this ufc fight is is now

01:02:29.080 reflexive jim acosta was there late at night waiting for the construction crew to take trump's

01:02:35.000 name off he's got a camera on him and he says two things in quick succession one he says this is

01:02:40.440 just like being at the fall of the berlin wall and then he says it's unbelievable and then he says

01:02:46.440 that this shows thought what we can do when mankind and then he corrects himself and says

01:02:51.320 i mean humankind because of course you can't say mankind he says when humankind stands up to

01:02:57.000 tyranny so the problem is not people who are criticizing having a uf site uh ufc fight on

01:03:04.360 the lawn and it's not people who don't think the kennedy center should be the trump kennedy center

01:03:09.080 the problem is the escalation of these very small and unimportant things to that comparing them to

01:03:16.280 jim crow and lynching and the east german walls and tyranny i mean it's it's this is one reason

01:03:25.320 incidentally i think trump was president twice it's just no one can ever hold their fire they

01:03:29.400 can they can never put what trump actually does in context and tell their allies to shut up about 0.98

01:03:35.720 everything else it's it's just stupid i mean well the whole kennedy center thing like it didn't go 1.00

01:03:41.960 well, I grant you. But Trump was trying to fix a center that had been pandering to the left for 0.99

01:03:48.880 decades. All the acts that went there were Democrats who had supported the most recent

01:03:54.780 Democrat in whatever election we'd had. The people who got honored every year were open and committed

01:04:01.100 Democrats. Once in a rare blue moon, you'd see a right leaning person over there, but almost never

01:04:06.280 nothing's coming to mind. I think the reason I mean, yes, Trump loves to have his name on

01:04:10.240 everything. We all know that about Trump. But I think he was also trying to telegraph.

01:04:15.260 There's a new sheriff in town. This is not your grandfather's Kennedy Center. Like,

01:04:19.140 hey, conservatives, give us a shot because you're going to see your people here now

01:04:22.620 that we've renamed it and Rick Grinnell is running it. We're trying to get the word out.

01:04:28.280 But of course, his worst detractors always go to the most negative place with him. It's all

01:04:32.360 about self-aggrandizement. And I realize with Trump, there is an element of that. But

01:04:35.560 But no credit for just trying to actually maybe reach out to a wider audience, which, again, is what he was trying to do on the White House lawn with UFC, not in any way some homage to Jim Crow, which is like freaking crazy talk.

01:04:50.260 Now, speaking of Crowe, Sheryl Crow, this isn't her first foray into politics. I was at the 2008 coronation of Barack Obama at Invesco Field out in Denver when he accepted the nomination with the Greek columns, remember?

01:05:06.800 And she was there.

01:05:10.320 She played.

01:05:11.400 And so did James Taylor.

01:05:12.820 He's always at these Democrat things.

01:05:15.860 But she, wait a minute.

01:05:17.980 Who was the guest?

01:05:19.420 It was James Patterson came on the show last Friday and told me that he worked in a psychiatric facility.

01:05:25.060 And when he was there, James Taylor was there as a young man in the psychiatric facility singing songs.

01:05:32.140 This was before he was famous.

01:05:33.100 I never really got to find out what was he doing in the psychiatric facility.

01:05:35.840 Whatever. 0.92

01:05:36.800 Back to Sheryl Crow. 0.99

01:05:38.380 She posted this video not long ago on her social media of her waving goodbye to her, wait for it, Tesla. 0.73

01:05:46.900 Remember?

01:05:47.660 In 2025.

01:05:48.520 That's crazed.

01:05:49.140 Watch this.

01:06:01.840 Okay.

01:06:02.360 Okay. So now she wants us to understand, like, she's the person who's going to be the spokesperson rich for, like, working class Americans and their plight. And that's why this whole thing was so inappropriate at the White House. Meanwhile, she waved goodbye to her, what, $70,000, $60,000 automobile because of the politics perceived of the owner of the company. Not many people can do that.

01:06:25.740 Yeah, your car shouldn't be political. It's a wonderful car. If you liked it enough to buy it, it's quite pricey. Not that the price matters to her. It's probably subsidized by the government. Why are you getting rid of it just because you don't like Elon Musk?

01:06:39.420 And by the way, the idea that Sheryl Crow is lecturing us about how a UFC fight isn't working class, you know, someone who's never been to a UFC fight, whereas this is a sport that indeed has a lot of working class appeal, it just gets to how this celebrity politics is so twisted and so out of touch.

01:06:58.620 You know, another element of the Obama Plex, Obama Library thing we could hit on.

01:07:02.900 He's got legit like A-list singing talent performing at the opening or whatever it is, right, in a way that Trump never could score.

01:07:10.780 So it's always good for them putting on shows, but it also misleads them because they think that's the real world.

01:07:16.940 And they think people actually listen to what those people say and follow their political directions.

01:07:21.600 And they just they just don't ever.

01:07:25.080 It's a very good point.

01:07:26.040 Let's talk about that terror plot that was thwarted because that really was disturbing.

01:07:30.800 I like I hate to draw too much attention to it because you don't want to give anybody ideas.

01:07:36.220 But I mean, to me, it's part of the just assassination culture that we're sadly living in in 2026 America.

01:07:45.960 This is from CNBC.

01:07:48.060 Tyson Proper, 19 year old Ohio man charged in connection with an alleged plot to attack the UFC event at the White House on Sunday, citing court documents.

01:07:55.920 Investigators said the alleged plan involved explosive-laden drones near the arena and shooters who were then going to target people as they fled.

01:08:05.980 There's some scuffle between the Secret Service and Kash Patel at the FBI.

01:08:10.320 They're mad he, quote, jumped the gun on disclosing details of what had been a sealed and continuing investigation.

01:08:15.360 But in any event, the FBI disrupted the alleged plot, thankfully.

01:08:19.320 thankfully. And it says that it was a detailed plan that these guys had with these drones and so

01:08:25.800 on. Let's see. The complaint was signed June 12th, two days before Trump hosted the event. So they

01:08:33.220 were on to these people. They never actually got onto the White House South Lawn, but they report

01:08:39.240 that a search of this guy proper's iPhone revealed encrypted group chats that laid out detailed plans

01:08:44.660 to conduct an attack on DC

01:08:45.860 with several unidentified confederates

01:08:48.360 and that it was rather sophisticated.

01:08:52.160 It was going to force spectators

01:08:54.120 and quote, high value targets

01:08:55.880 to evacuate again

01:08:57.720 where they would then be shot.

01:09:01.020 They thought this would be

01:09:02.380 a jumpstart of a revolution

01:09:04.680 in the United States.

01:09:06.320 I don't know, guys.

01:09:07.220 This is like, this is dark.

01:09:09.400 And the drone technology,

01:09:11.880 you know, sadly,

01:09:13.140 that's what they used in Iran. We're seeing it used by the Ukrainians to fight Russia. 0.78

01:09:20.000 And I guess it's just a matter of time before we see it unleashed on innocents domestically in some 0.76

01:09:26.840 piece of this assassination culture or the latest iteration of mass terror events here.

01:09:32.840 Your thoughts on it? Well, it's awful. You know, I oppose all violence, obviously, but it's at a

01:09:39.760 different level than assassination right because they're not even targeting trump they're just

01:09:45.000 targeting people who happen to be at this event that trump has sponsored totally innocent people

01:09:51.000 not that trump obviously but but the the turpitude of it is horrible and then you know we have to

01:09:58.200 learn more but the what seems to be the this sophistication of at least the planning we have

01:10:03.560 seen a couple of these there's there's one a year or so ago that didn't get a ton of attention down

01:10:07.160 in Texas, where there's kind of a pro-trans anti-ice cell. And this was seven or eight young

01:10:13.380 people who, like this, it was kind of elaborate. They staged some sort of disturbance in the

01:10:19.520 parking lot in the hopes the ice guys would run out of the facility, and then they shot at them

01:10:24.740 from the woods. So this is no kidding domestic terrorism. And I think you're right. It's only

01:10:30.480 a matter of time until something like this succeeds, but it's an ongoing threat.

01:10:35.700 And it is like further evidence that the FBI in particular has had a black eye over the past few

01:10:41.880 years. And I know you're no fan of it either, Charlie, but there is a role for federal law

01:10:47.400 enforcement. And this is exactly what that role is, by the way.

01:10:50.740 Well, and especially in Washington, D.C., which is a federal district. So you would have to have

01:10:55.700 some sort of federal law enforcement there. Whatever you did with the FBI, I mean, you

01:11:01.560 mentioned the part of this that scares me the most, which is drones. I'm a technophile. I think

01:11:07.220 drones can be very useful, but they are going to force us, if we haven't already, to rethink

01:11:14.340 security. And if you take the obvious example of an NFL stadium or Disney World, these are protected

01:11:23.080 assuming there are no drones. I mean, the assumption is that you have to keep people

01:11:28.560 who might do harm out of the perimeter and so you act accordingly but a drone just flies up drops in

01:11:37.760 and the United States is really virtuous in the way it treats its airspace we're a very open

01:11:44.540 society compared to most we don't have draconian restrictions on airspace in most places and

01:11:52.720 And pretty much anyone without having to file permission slips can get in an airplane, take

01:11:58.480 off and land at any airport, providing they radio the tower.

01:12:03.400 Well, drones complicate this.

01:12:06.180 And I just hope, and I know nothing about this, of course, but I hope that the security

01:12:09.960 services have cottoned on to this because there's a difference between stopping a plot

01:12:15.260 like this before it happens because you hear about it or you infiltrate it or you intercept

01:12:20.400 the message is and stopping this happening once it has been put into motion. And I really don't

01:12:26.380 want to see what that latter circumstance looks like. Yeah, I agreed. We were on vacation with

01:12:33.500 our family three or four years ago. And the last leg, we were in France, of the tour brought us to

01:12:40.720 this beautiful resort on a hillside. And I was out there in the morning having my coffee. And it's

01:12:47.060 the morning. So I just, I have my robe on and that's it. Um, no hair, makeup, whatever it's

01:12:52.640 vacay. And I'm sitting there enjoying myself, having a moment of Zen with a beautiful view in

01:12:57.940 France. Up comes a drone right over me. And you don't know what it is, who it is, who's controlling

01:13:05.280 it. You know, my, my suspicion at the time was like paparazzi, right? Cause like if they get

01:13:11.740 wind that you're on vacation, they've taken pictures of my family and me before. And then

01:13:16.580 the next thing you know, your vacation is public and you never know who you're telegraphing to.

01:13:19.880 But like, who wants to be spied on and have their pictures splashed all over newspapers

01:13:25.620 during their morning coffee while on vacation? It's just like, and that's to say nothing of

01:13:31.420 the actual security risks of these things. If they're carrying something dangerous, some

01:13:36.760 makeshift pipe bomb, what have you, it's just yet another thing we're going to have to deal with as

01:13:42.160 we move into, you know, further into the 21st century. Um, oh joy. Hopefully you're a technophile,

01:13:50.240 Charlie. Hopefully we'll find out like sort of iron dome ways for America of not stopping this

01:13:57.220 at certainly at places like a Disneyland or a Disney world where like, you can't like there's

01:14:01.600 some sort of imaginary wall there that's manned by lasers, et cetera. That's too smart for these

01:14:07.540 guys. That's my hope. I, you know, technology should help us in this situation more than it

01:14:12.860 hurts us. Okay. I want to keep going. We mentioned these people who hate America, who we were talking

01:14:17.960 about, like the, whatever, the ones who can't stand the USC and think it's an example of modern

01:14:22.960 day slavery, whatever it is. That is contrasted, as I pointed out, with these Europeans who are 0.97

01:14:27.800 coming through for the World Cup. I heard you guys discuss this on the editors too. They're so 0.61

01:14:31.900 joyful. It's so great to listen to these guys because they're experiencing our country,

01:14:36.760 experiencing our country for the first time and so it gives you the chance to see some of the

01:14:40.260 things we take for granted through fresh eyes and it's wonderful and wokeness online put together

01:14:46.820 a montage of some of these guys watch sat 23b everybody's so friendly southern hospitality

01:14:53.660 the air smells nice when you're in the uk okay if you're next to the beach it smells

01:14:59.000 the beach doesn't smell here right no everything's for you

01:15:02.240 I can refill this a thousand times.

01:15:09.500 Yeah, but you won't drink a thousand cups of Coca-Cola.

01:15:12.380 You don't know me.

01:15:13.140 And it's free.

01:15:14.380 You paid for it.

01:15:15.420 You paid it.

01:15:16.040 Once.

01:15:17.260 Bro, slow down.

01:15:20.140 Free refills.

01:15:25.220 It's the best burger.

01:15:27.240 Honestly, it's so good.

01:15:28.680 and then i also got the animal style fries

01:15:33.580 and the diet lemonade for balance is pink i just love it here like and they get to fight

01:15:42.880 human trafficking which is awesome they have bible verses on the bottom of their cup never

01:15:47.080 as good as you can see but yeah look at that burger it's so good and then we've got the sunset

01:15:54.800 that. I love America. I can never leave. The German guy. He's been amazing. I think it was

01:16:06.840 is that the guy who was on Jake Tapper, the German guy, you guys? Yeah, we'll watch a little.

01:16:11.260 He went on Jake Tapper's top 22. What do you make of all the viral content coming out of this

01:16:16.020 tournament and and all the love for the European tourists from the American people as you show us

01:16:23.840 our country with fresh eyes yeah i mean i know freddy he's a nice guy he's from he's from like

01:16:29.680 close to me so i've been talking to him he's loving it uh he's more touring the south i did

01:16:34.320 chicago and i think it's more like because in europe we have a lot of um rather negative news

01:16:39.140 about the americans in the last five years let's say that and i think we are all enjoying like the

01:16:43.940 fact that this country is so great to visit the people are amazing so welcoming the culture is

01:16:48.980 amazing it's like europeans are getting a new view of america right now i think through also

01:16:53.420 through our content and that's that's cool i think so this has just been so great right because it's

01:16:59.140 like they're seeing places like waffle house which i know that's that's down by you in florida

01:17:04.280 right charlie waffle house we don't have those really up up by me bucky's and and they're falling

01:17:09.760 in love with how big and like the the facilities are the offerings the the meals and so on and

01:17:17.620 it's like i've seen a lot of people say this online and i totally second it which is wait

01:17:21.280 till you get a load of our diners. Wait until you get a load of like the corner bar, the corner pub,

01:17:26.620 Charlie Cook. That's your favorite place. Like the real America too. Like once you dig a little

01:17:31.700 deeper has all that charm and more. And the testimonials about the people have been so great,

01:17:39.360 just how friendly they are, how they Americans, they make eye contact. They offer to help you.

01:17:44.580 If you ask for directions, they'll walk you to the next spot. There was a French guy being like,

01:17:49.060 this does not happen in France. Trust me. So it's such a feel-good moment, Charlie. 0.99

01:17:56.140 Yeah. So I love this because this is how I feel, of course, as well. But the thing that I like the

01:18:02.360 most about it is less that Americans who didn't like America to start with are seeing people like

01:18:08.220 America. They should have already known. But the Europeans who are coming here are having

01:18:14.040 the propaganda they've been sold wiped away i a couple of weeks ago was in new york and we took

01:18:21.900 the kids to the statue of liberty in ellis island and there's this plaque there and it has a story

01:18:26.500 on it of a woman from russia and uh she said that when she went up to a cop when she first

01:18:32.460 moved to the united states she was shocked that he didn't hit her because they'd been told in

01:18:37.640 the soviet union uh that that's what american cops would do right it was supposed to be this

01:18:43.560 sort of barbaric place. And it's not quite on that level. But I really must implore Americans

01:18:48.860 to understand that what Europeans are told about America all the time, by the news, but also by

01:18:56.340 entertainment, is relentlessly negative. It bears no resemblance to what America is actually like

01:19:03.280 to what Americans are actually like. And so when the German guy in that clip says, you know, what

01:19:09.600 we have heard in the last five years is very negative. Yeah, it will have been. It will have

01:19:14.080 been everywhere. And then to come to the United States and see what it's actually like must be

01:19:19.600 absolutely astonishing. In one way, it must completely rewire your worldview. I saw an

01:19:24.400 English guy on Twitter yesterday who ended up in an American hospital. I don't think he did

01:19:29.200 nothing stupid, but he just he needed to use the hospital while he was here. And he was amazed too, 0.96

01:19:33.960 because I think what he'd been told is either we don't have any or that they take your credit card 0.99

01:19:37.980 when you walk in and you know all that everyone in there uh is is sort of corrupt or redneck i

01:19:44.080 don't know what he thought but but he said it was a really nice hospital i had a really i was a

01:19:49.360 really good visit to the hospital and i thought well yeah because you're in a very technologically

01:19:54.020 advanced innovative rich country uh which is actually ahead of most of europe in this technology

01:19:59.460 in medicine so it's just great to watch this because the only way you can really get past

01:20:05.300 all of that negative propaganda, is to come and visit yourself.

01:20:09.260 You know, Rich, it's kind of reminding me, just because I'm in the middle of this,

01:20:13.160 for some reason I decided to order and read the autobiography of Katharine Hepburn.

01:20:20.200 I just always thought she was cool and I wanted to know more about her.

01:20:22.660 She was born in 1907 and she was one of six, second child, was raised in Connecticut,

01:20:30.680 where I live now and was the daughter of a suffragette, like remembers actively campaigning

01:20:37.080 for women to get the vote. Anyway, she came up at a time that wasn't great. I would say versus

01:20:42.980 today for women, you know, like she didn't quite have the same race. She couldn't even vote. Her 1.00

01:20:46.260 parents, her mother couldn't vote when she was a child. Zero complaints. She had an attitude,

01:20:52.200 which I've been talking to Doug about, like every page is like, life is so amazing. It's so exciting.

01:20:58.700 There's so many opportunities.

01:21:00.500 And she loved Connecticut.

01:21:02.580 Love, love, love, love, love.

01:21:03.840 And I love the change of seasons too.

01:21:05.260 But it's like she talks about it, like all the things that are so beautiful about it.

01:21:08.840 And sometimes you need that reminder, whether it's from a book like this or our German friend

01:21:14.440 or the people from France, what have you, of how lucky you are.

01:21:18.540 Just didn't the amazing gifts that are all around you just by virtue of the fact that

01:21:22.060 you won the lottery and were born in the United States of America.

01:21:25.840 This guy, Freddie, what a trek he's on.

01:21:27.840 He was posting videos yesterday of getting a tour of the Artemis rocket.

01:21:32.060 I mean, someone's going to make a movie about this guy.

01:21:34.600 It's unbelievable.

01:21:35.800 But yeah, they're stunned, especially given, as Charlie points out, what they hear from

01:21:39.740 the European press, which is all guns, violence, you know, things they don't like about Trump,

01:21:44.200 to come here in this land that's so abundant, that's so open, that's so convenient, that's

01:21:50.860 so friendly.

01:21:52.440 And you're so right that none of us created any of this, really.

01:21:56.920 Some of us have done our little bits, you know, across our careers or whatever, but it was bequeathed to us by being Americans, right?

01:22:04.640 And one of the most depressing things about the country last week or two, we've had this polling, this NBC poll over the weekend.

01:22:10.380 It shows pride in the country.

01:22:12.380 People are extremely very proud of America is down, I think, a new low, 56% if you had those two categories up.

01:22:18.880 And the Democrats' numbers are just in the toilet.

01:22:22.340 You know, this kind of goes back to the Michelle Obama conversation.

01:22:25.000 You should just be so filled with gratitude for being here in this country at this time and place.

01:22:33.080 And if it takes Europeans coming over here and discovering free refills and that you can actually get ice in your soda to remind us of it, so be it.

01:22:42.460 It's a great thing. 1.00

01:22:43.980 Yeah, amen.

01:22:45.020 I want to see way more of all of these guys.

01:22:47.960 It's just a great reminder.

01:22:49.140 And I love the things that they're pointing out because they are great.

01:22:51.540 You know, it's like it is amazing.

01:22:53.220 You go to the Waffle House, like whatever your heart desires, it's right there.

01:22:58.440 And the all-you-can-eat buffets, it's like you could keep going.

01:23:02.260 And honestly, for me, too, having spent the last 17 years in Manhattan, so many wonderful little shops, less thanks to de Blasio and now Mom Donnie.

01:23:12.520 It's really, I can't blame Mom Donnie.

01:23:13.940 It was really Bill de Blasio would try to ruin New York.

01:23:16.200 But those mom-and-pop shops, those small delis, the bakeries, the small shops that the shopkeepers put up, whether they're bookstores or clothing stores, just so much charm, so much character.

01:23:28.880 I love that stuff about our big cities as well.

01:23:30.960 We don't have the European age in terms of the buildings and so on, and not all of our modern architecture is that beautiful.

01:23:39.880 But, man, we have culture galore, and it's ours.

01:23:43.840 It's uniquely ours.

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01:26:27.040 Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly.

01:26:28.960 I've got some exciting news.

01:26:31.380 I now have my very own channel

01:26:32.960 on SiriusXM. It's called

01:26:34.820 the meghan kelly channel and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no

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01:26:44.240 lauren maureen callahan emily joshinsky jesse kelly real clear politics and many more it's bold

01:26:50.680 no bs news only on the meghan kelly channel sirius xm 111 and on the sirius xm app

01:26:56.660 rich and charlie from national review are back with me now so guys there's been a controversy

01:27:06.240 involving um the san francisco giants rich you're the baseball fan okay i knew it was san francisco

01:27:14.240 and uh they of course it being san francisco and this was happening in like a lot of mlb

01:27:20.700 not too long ago. They decided to recognize Pride Month by making the SF on the caps

01:27:27.640 rainbow. Taste the rainbow, as they say. And a couple of players decided, they didn't, you know,

01:27:36.960 object, but they added a reference to a Bible verse that actually does talk about rainbows.

01:27:45.820 It's Genesis 9, 12 through 16.

01:27:49.260 The verse reads as follows.

01:27:51.300 And God said, this is the sign of the covenant that I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you for all future generations.

01:27:58.660 I've set my bow in the cloud and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and the earth.

01:28:04.260 When I bring clouds over the earth and the bow is seen in the clouds, I will remember my covenant that is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh.

01:28:11.020 and the water shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. When the bow is in the clouds,

01:28:17.380 I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature

01:28:21.260 of all flesh that is on the earth. So this is obviously some Christian players deciding to 0.94

01:28:28.820 reframe what the rainbow that was forced upon them in those letters means to them,

01:28:35.680 which seems perfectly reasonable they didn't get to decide whether they had their logo changed

01:28:42.800 and here was the reaction from the worst person in america truly this guy is my least favorite

01:28:53.300 politician or soon to be american um u.s congressman he's going to win nancy pelosi's

01:29:00.800 old seat scott weiner the vile awful scott weiner here's his response oh sorry no it's written

01:29:11.120 this is those are actually old those are actually old um quotes from him i'll find it but he is 0.86

01:29:18.180 angry where is this is this an am update you guys trying to find it um he's very pissed off

01:29:25.100 that they've done this and he thinks the san francisco giants need to do something about this

01:29:29.340 that they need to crack down somehow on these players.

01:29:32.540 I'll find it, and until I do, Rich, your thoughts.

01:29:35.000 Yeah, so he said something like, of all days, why couldn't they have done this on 364 other days

01:29:42.800 rather than writing this Bible verse on this day, on Pride Night?

01:29:46.120 Which gets totally wrong who the aggressor is here, right?

01:29:49.800 These players are being made to wear a social and political symbol that they don't support,

01:29:56.860 that counters to their Christian values. So it's a form of enforced speech, and this is their

01:30:03.300 dissent from that enforced speech. So look, if you're San Francisco Giants, you're probably

01:30:09.080 going to have a pride night. I wouldn't do it. I don't particularly like it. But changing the

01:30:14.780 uniform and making that a symbol, NHL teams have done this as well, that's a step beyond. It's

01:30:20.700 making these people assent to it. And at the end of the day, that's a big part of the point here.

01:30:26.400 There's a council member out there who had a tweet thread on X where he was saying, if you're not okay with this and you're causing so much dissension on the team that you're writing your Bible verse or one of these guys just wore the traditional cap rather than wearing the rainbow cap, maybe you don't belong in the major leagues.

01:30:45.380 Like, how crazy and despicable and authoritarian is that?

01:30:50.680 These guys worked their whole lives, literally since they were kids, to get highly proficient at this sport that's extremely difficult to perform at the highest level.

01:31:00.000 And they're not supposed to play for a major league team unless they're on board with rainbow symbols.

01:31:07.500 And these guys, they are taking a career risk because two or three years ago, there's a Blue Jays pitcher who just liked an Instagram post.

01:31:16.220 Remember, there was an anti-target boycott having to do with this sort of stuff.

01:31:22.160 And he was literally cut from the team.

01:31:23.720 The tuck-up bathing suit.

01:31:24.640 He never heard from again, a guy named Anthony Bass.

01:31:26.840 That is crazy.

01:31:28.180 All right, I found it.

01:31:28.860 Here's what he said.

01:31:29.540 He's criticizing the Giants and the several players who he claims defaced their Pride Night ball caps with a biblical passage that the biblical passages defaced the pride messaging.

01:31:45.380 Unbelievable, Charlie.

01:31:46.960 He goes on to say several players defaced their pride caps with a biblical passage that it has been hijacked by homophobes to take back the rainbow from LGBTQ people.

01:31:59.620 I'm pretty sure he's got the order of events wrong.

01:32:04.020 I just think the argument in general is disingenuous.

01:32:07.780 The argument runs a little bit like this, that it's a private institution.

01:32:11.880 It sort of is.

01:32:12.960 They do have a federal exemption from antitrust law, but it's a private institution.

01:32:16.960 and this is the uniform and if you play for the team then you wear the uniform okay sounds

01:32:24.320 innocuous enough but the next step is well there's nothing wrong with adding the pride night

01:32:31.180 paraphernalia to the uniform because it's a constitutional right okay well so is the second

01:32:39.380 amendment but if a team put you know second amendment stuff on their uniform and then told

01:32:45.040 everyone to wear it i think some people would would disagree they would dissent that's fine

01:32:51.100 um and the same people who are now complaining would say that that was their free speech right

01:32:55.480 that's why you don't do this right that's why you shouldn't accept in extreme circumstances

01:33:01.680 something that genuinely ought to be completely unifying and uncontroversial like you know

01:33:07.140 america 250 or july 4th patch or something that's why you just shouldn't do this as institutions

01:33:14.660 And as Rich says, there is a big difference between hosting a theme night, whether that's pride night or not, and changing the uniform.

01:33:20.860 It's the uniform part of this that makes this a bit ugly.

01:33:24.360 And then Major League Baseball saying that there'll be consequences for further altering the uniform. 0.97

01:33:30.740 I think that, and I say this as somebody who's pretty pro-gay and has always been in favor of gay marriage,

01:33:35.520 although I thought the Supreme Court decision in Obergefell was a disaster and is wrong.

01:33:39.640 but i'm not somebody who is is hostile uh toward gay people but i think some of the skepticism

01:33:46.820 you're seeing not just toward pride month but toward gay marriage that has popped up in the

01:33:52.320 last five years a reversal of approval of such things is the product of exactly this sort of

01:33:59.000 conduct because the winning argument was why do you care you do your thing we'll do our thing

01:34:05.240 let's leave each other alone that prevailed that was quite popular and now there's a lot of coercion

01:34:12.480 and you get representatives saying that this is a disgrace and you get people calling for

01:34:17.880 major league baseball to kick these people out and i think people hate it and i think they should

01:34:21.700 yeah you will celebrate my thing right that's that's the new messaging you you must uh okay

01:34:28.400 got to get this in before we leave. Emily Ratajkowski. She's a model. She's an actress

01:34:35.060 too. She was in Gone Girl. She has 28 million Instagram followers. And she's out now with 0.94

01:34:44.060 this new magazine piece in New York Magazine's The Cut. And it's entitled Mother Effer.

01:34:53.680 After becoming a single mom, I began compulsively dating in order to figure out what kind of woman I wanted to be. 0.63

01:35:01.120 The cover of the piece shows her topless. 1.00

01:35:04.220 She's got a top on, but it's open and her breasts are hanging out.

01:35:06.680 And it looks like a real baby, but we're told it's actually a doll who she has posed as though he's breastfeeding off of one of her breasts. 0.70

01:35:14.820 And the whole piece is about how after she gave birth to her son, six months later, she and her husband stopped having sex and she became the thing she never wanted to be, which was a single mother.

01:35:32.720 And she writes about this process in the most vile and crude terms.

01:35:39.720 I mean, honestly, like, I don't even know if I can read her description of having her son. 1.00

01:35:43.960 And she makes it so disgusting and awful. 0.57

01:35:46.640 You know, it's like, that's not, 0.57

01:35:48.140 I think most women remember some pain around the birth,

01:35:51.060 but like when you ask them about the birth,

01:35:53.300 they might say, oh yeah, I was in a lot of pain.

01:35:55.140 But then the very, very next thing they'd say

01:35:56.620 is how wonderful the baby is

01:35:57.860 and what it's like to become a mother

01:35:59.140 and the miracle of that first moment.

01:36:01.420 That's not really how she describes it.

01:36:02.880 She's talking a lot about what happened down South in Rio

01:36:06.300 that needed to be mended up later after the fact.

01:36:09.000 So she talks now about how she, 0.99

01:36:12.140 she's now become a slut, really, is that that's what she's decided to do to as a soothing balm, 0.98

01:36:20.680 I guess, and talks about how she never had had a one night stand prior to her separation. But now 0.99

01:36:25.860 she wants to be a whore. I decided to F my way into a new kind of woman. I wanted to destroy 1.00

01:36:33.360 the Madonna, the special girl I'd worked so hard to be before an eight pound baby had torn my 1.00

01:36:37.960 vagina in two and replace her with the whore. And she's celebrating how now she goes to bed 1.00

01:36:45.000 with anyone, but she does make it home in time for her son to wake up at 6 a.m. no matter how

01:36:51.740 many martinis she's had and how many men she's had. And I guess, Rich, we're supposed to celebrate

01:36:59.200 this as an example of female empowerment. And by the way, it's from the same woman who wrote a

01:37:06.080 whole thing about how she hates, hates being sexually objectified by men, contrary to the

01:37:13.680 photos you're seeing on your screen, which you would be forgiven for misunderstanding as a 1.00

01:37:17.680 desperate request to be objectified. Yeah, this is clearly a luxury lifestyle. I don't think this

01:37:24.160 is a reaction of most people to becoming single moms as having this extraordinary run of

01:37:29.500 promiscuity as she describes it. Also, most people don't have available to them just being able to go 0.78

01:37:33.940 out to bars and sleep around and someone else, some unnamed person is watching their children.

01:37:40.260 It's also kind of laughable when she says that what these guys find attractive about her is

01:37:46.120 actually her motherhood, it turns out. I'm not sure that's what they're really attracted to here.

01:37:51.680 So this is bizarre and unworthy. And let's hope she has enough wisdom 10 years from now,

01:38:00.340 whatever it is to look back at this piece and and her behavior and be ashamed let's hope her

01:38:05.480 can i say charlie shame on the cut for running this it's like the young girls who don't have

01:38:09.940 emily emily's followers on instagram or her money or her name sadly some faction of them may be 0.97

01:38:17.160 inspired by this like oh yeah she seems much happier now in her own words becoming a whore 0.86

01:38:22.140 maybe i should try it well i agree with you i'm not sure you can put shame on the cut the cut is 0.97

01:38:28.780 a source of the most crazy and silly stories of the last five years. Do you remember that story

01:38:34.940 in the cut about the lady who put $50,000 in a shoebox because she got some scam text message?

01:38:41.720 That was a great one. You and I discussed that. Yeah, but she was like a finance writer. She was

01:38:47.840 like a financial advice writer. So the cut really does find these stories and puts them out there.

01:38:54.820 So I sort of expect it from them. The bad behavior is more from her. And I really don't know much more to say than that, Megan. I think we all instinctively agree it's gross.

01:39:09.360 um yeah i'm just looking at their headlines right now the obamas still believe in hope and change

01:39:16.920 um let's see how does calista gingrich's hair do that i mean that's a legitimate question 0.99

01:39:23.880 my first orgasm cost ten thousand dollars that's why she wrote a book to convince you his wife

01:39:31.980 doesn't hate him that's basically what you're going to get over there what do you say charlie 0.84

01:39:35.420 They said if it's $10,000 in orgasm, she put $50,000 in a shoebox.

01:39:39.520 Maybe that piece now makes more sense.

01:39:42.720 Do you see the picture of Callista and Trump?

01:39:44.220 I'm not even sure you get to 10 grand.

01:39:45.840 Do you see the picture of Callista and Trump the other day

01:39:47.700 with their hair looking exactly the same?

01:39:49.360 Yes, it doesn't blow.

01:39:51.220 It's amazing.

01:39:52.300 You know what Callista Gingrich's hair reminds me of?

01:39:54.760 My friend and former makeup artist Maureen used to say this.

01:39:58.180 Fondant on a wedding cake.

01:39:59.760 Totally, uh-huh.

01:40:00.800 You know?

01:40:01.100 Yeah.

01:40:02.040 It's not real icing.

01:40:03.040 It's just like this weird thing that doesn't ever move.

01:40:07.060 And she's had it like that for decades.

01:40:09.200 I've never seen a hair out of place like in the whipping winds.

01:40:12.780 It holds like she should be working with NASA, Rich.

01:40:19.620 Same with Trump.

01:40:20.480 Trump's occasionally moves.

01:40:21.680 It's bad when it moves, but it but it usually doesn't.

01:40:24.560 It's true.

01:40:25.360 I don't I feel like Michelle Obama thinks we're obsessed with her braids and we're not.

01:40:29.700 and Calista Gingrich doesn't think we care about her hair and we do, you know, like it's actually

01:40:35.420 something to be respected, honestly. Well, I'm worried about this kind of messaging because I

01:40:39.740 feel like with the reboot of Sex and the City, which was terrible messaging for an entire 0.98

01:40:44.460 generation and just this new class of, I don't know, modern day feminists who want to kind of 1.00

01:40:50.220 dump on the right that says, hey, consider being a mom, consider getting married, consider that as 1.00

01:40:55.140 a viable option for you at a young age, by the way, before you develop infertility problems and so on. 0.99

01:40:59.700 You got the people on the other side saying or or just become a whore or talk about the birth of your child like it was human torture. 0.95

01:41:07.160 And that's the only thing you remember. 1.00

01:41:08.600 And then tout the martinis, the sneaking into your home at six and or not only that, but she points out that the man she was dating says she looks like Cleopatra when she gives a blowjob. 0.96

01:41:18.720 So I'm sure there are a lot of options, as you point out, men who would like to understand that firsthand. 0.97

01:41:24.800 We'll leave it at that.

01:41:25.840 Guys, great to see you.

01:41:26.620 So everybody go sign up for NR and become a premium member like I am.

01:41:31.940 You won't be sorry you did.

01:41:33.880 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:41:36.060 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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01:41:51.000 If my teenager starts calling me Leslie, that's a family thing, Leslie.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - June 17, 2026

Michelle Obama Upstages Barack, Euros Love America, and 2028 Rumblings, with Rich Lowry and Charles C.W. Cooke ｜ Ep. 1341

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