The Megyn Kelly Show - Missing Plane MH370 Mystery, Horrifying Chris Watts Case, D.C. Sniper Saga

00:00:00.520 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.200 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to today's bonus Sunday true crime episode.

00:00:17.300 We've got some news coming in in the world of MK true crime, more on that next week.

00:00:21.980 So all month we're going to be bringing you a Sunday mega episode featuring some MK show true crime coverage.

00:00:29.140 Today's includes in-depth features on the missing plane, MH370, the horrifying, horrifying Chris Watts case.

00:00:39.100 Once you hear about that case, you never forget it. And the DC sniper saga.

00:00:44.880 All right, here it is. Hope you enjoy the program and we will see you Monday.

00:00:50.780 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and the final day of our hot crime summer week.

00:00:56.420 Today we investigate the mystery of MH370, the missing plane.

00:01:02.140 You may think you know this story, but you do not know it like this. Oh my gosh.

00:01:08.460 We're going to take you from takeoff to the controversial search and investigation with famed writer, author, and journalist, William Longavisha.

00:01:18.740 In addition to his journalism, he's also an aviation expert.

00:01:23.220 He was a professional pilot for many years before turning to journalism.

00:01:26.820 And he has researched and investigated the MH370 findings more than pretty much any other journalist,

00:01:33.520 including those involved with that recent Netflix special.

00:01:37.440 And we're going to get to that too.

00:01:39.300 We will try to get to the bottom once and for all about what happened, where that plane is,

00:01:44.460 and we will get into the head of that pilot.

00:01:52.240 Set the stage.

00:01:53.100 Because I watched this whole special, you know, on Netflix about what happened to the plane.

00:01:57.520 I was excited. I was like, okay, I want my answers.

00:02:00.400 I walked away frustrated and kind of angry that I had been led down a bunch of paths

00:02:05.940 that seemed equally unreasonable and led to trust people who turned out to be, to me, kind of quacky

00:02:13.420 and didn't get any answers.

00:02:16.180 There wasn't an answer.

00:02:18.240 So is there an answer?

00:02:20.320 I mean, is there a better place to go for what, not definitively, but most likely happened to MH370?

00:02:27.420 Yes, there is completely an answer.

00:02:32.540 It's indisputable.

00:02:33.960 In fact, the answer is indisputable.

00:02:35.220 The motive is a different question.

00:02:36.640 The why is the question.

00:02:39.220 The what is indisputable.

00:02:44.520 So let's start there.

00:02:45.820 What happened to MH370?

00:02:47.420 MH370.

00:02:49.540 Well, this airplane took off.

00:02:50.780 It was in 2014, March, at night, just after midnight, out of Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia.

00:03:00.200 So Air Malaysia.

00:03:01.140 They were going to Beijing, about a six-hour flight, straight on up the coast of Asia,

00:03:06.920 basically, to Beijing.

00:03:08.680 And after about, you know, after leveling off, a few minutes after leveling off,

00:03:12.900 out of where the South China Sea disappeared from radar, this does occasionally happen.

00:03:19.260 It usually means that there's a crash, which happens immediately.

00:03:22.980 In this case, there was no crash.

00:03:25.020 It disappeared from radar.

00:03:27.140 And for reasons we can discuss, we know that it kept flying, not toward Beijing,

00:03:34.280 but essentially 90 degrees to that path, and then in the roughly opposite direction,

00:03:40.620 toward the South Pole, out over the Indian Ocean, for about seven hours.

00:03:45.580 And that doesn't fit any profile that any of us have ever seen before with an airplane accident,

00:03:52.900 whether it's a terrorist act or an explosion or a system failure.

00:03:58.260 It disappeared after a very, very strange flight, an enigmatic flight,

00:04:04.540 that we were able to piece together, however, conclusively.

00:04:10.680 And at the end of that flight, it ran out of gas and went into the deep ocean

00:04:14.680 in a remote part of the Indian Ocean and has not yet been found, period.

00:04:21.000 It basically was on its way northeast toward Beijing.

00:04:24.520 It turned around, it crossed back over, and then it went south over the Indian Ocean.

00:04:30.340 This is what you say happened.

00:04:31.820 And there are data points that support that theory, the most important being the MRSAT data, right?

00:04:38.720 Can you explain what that is?

00:04:41.620 Yes, I would say that the most important initial data points is primary radar, right?

00:04:46.780 So that either military radar or just raw radar, that's the, and that showed within a few days,

00:04:54.500 it clearly showed that the airplane turned west across the Malay Peninsula

00:05:01.320 and then went northwest up the Straits of Malacca, around the top of Indonesia,

00:05:06.460 and then south from there into the depths of the Indian Ocean.

00:05:11.760 It was on radar for a long time after making the first turn.

00:05:16.360 So that's the first thing.

00:05:17.580 It was or was not?

00:05:18.960 Say again.

00:05:20.080 It was or it was not?

00:05:21.900 It was, okay.

00:05:23.880 It was not on primary radar.

00:05:27.100 It was not on normal air traffic control, computer-enhanced, transponder-based secondary radar,

00:05:35.540 which is the normal air traffic control radar.

00:05:38.120 It carries a lot of data with it.

00:05:39.340 It was on the kind of radar that the military uses for air defense reasons,

00:05:43.680 and also that it lies underneath normal air traffic control radar.

00:05:49.100 So it was an unenhanced raw target.

00:05:53.800 And that was the first thing.

00:05:56.540 No matter what, it stayed, I think I'm going to say it was in the air,

00:06:00.900 being seen by some form of radar for about an hour

00:06:05.780 after making the first crazy silent turn off course from Beijing.

00:06:14.260 As it proceeded then around the top of Indonesia,

00:06:18.980 it then disappeared from radar range, normal radar range,

00:06:23.340 both Thai and Indonesian, let alone Malaysian military.

00:06:27.820 And then the, but at about the same time that that occurred,

00:06:31.460 that it was being lost from normal radar,

00:06:34.320 it's complicated to explain this,

00:06:39.240 but a series of electronic handshakes began.

00:06:45.480 And these handshakes are related to an obscure communication device

00:06:49.880 in the ceiling of the cabin of the 777.

00:06:53.920 This was a 777 Boeing that is responsible for some forms of communication,

00:06:59.640 largely entertainment stuff and other things,

00:07:02.640 reports to maintenance, so satellite-based.

00:07:06.600 And those handshakes were either the airplane or the ground-based satellite,

00:07:12.340 the ground base of the satellite system

00:07:14.820 was trying to establish communications, always unsuccessfully.

00:07:20.060 But the attempt to establish communications carried with it

00:07:24.120 whispers of content with hints of location and of direction.

00:07:31.820 And in the end of a final violent dive.

00:07:39.820 The use of that information, which was basically interpreted in London,

00:07:45.920 in Marsat as the company, was revolutionary.

00:07:49.340 That information had never been used before.

00:07:53.860 There were two forms of it, these handshakes.

00:07:56.460 And they were able to, in Marsat, in London,

00:07:58.720 they specifically were able to derive distance from the satellite.

00:08:04.040 And there were, I think, seven handshakes.

00:08:06.660 And that may be a little wrong on that,

00:08:08.160 but roughly seven handshakes,

00:08:10.080 each of which gave a distance from the satellite,

00:08:12.620 and an arc, and then also, through a Doppler effect,

00:08:18.160 if you know what I mean, distortion of frequencies,

00:08:21.080 and I'm simplifying it a little bit,

00:08:23.260 related to the speed of the airplane

00:08:24.960 and problems with the wobbling satellite,

00:08:28.180 they were able to, in Marsat,

00:08:30.420 was able, in London, to derive directional information,

00:08:34.600 or at least turn information.

00:08:36.420 So the turns were seen,

00:08:39.880 because it warped, sort of like a train going by,

00:08:42.780 you know, a Doppler effect.

00:08:44.140 It warped the signals,

00:08:46.560 and a train going by, I'm talking audio,

00:08:51.540 a train whistle, anything like that.

00:08:53.260 That's, of course, the famous Doppler effect.

00:08:55.180 We all learned about it in high school.

00:08:57.800 But it was happening electronically out over the Indian Ocean.

00:09:00.440 This was never, this is revolutionary stuff.

00:09:03.900 And it was, it was out of desperation

00:09:07.320 that these brilliant people in London

00:09:10.120 realized they had real information

00:09:12.580 they could go back into the records

00:09:14.480 during those hours and derive from that satellite

00:09:18.160 a lot of information of where the airplane was

00:09:21.120 at any given time, or at each given handshake,

00:09:23.520 and where it was turning.

00:09:25.800 So that's what I'm talking about.

00:09:28.020 Hmm, that's fascinating.

00:09:29.340 So let's start back at the first kind of radar

00:09:33.040 that you said picked up the plane.

00:09:35.140 You said it wasn't the normal air traffic control radar.

00:09:38.800 Now, why, do we know why that was?

00:09:41.300 That it wasn't being picked up

00:09:43.160 on the normal air traffic control radar?

00:09:47.700 Well, because the airplane's transponder was turned off.

00:09:52.060 Whether, if we're talking about a simple,

00:09:55.560 simple, single failure,

00:09:58.140 this is not uncommon.

00:10:00.200 It's why airplanes typically have two transponders.

00:10:02.340 I mean, transponder failures are not uncommon.

00:10:06.440 And, you know, it's not very exotic technology,

00:10:08.920 that kind of transponder.

00:10:10.200 It's similar to the traffic,

00:10:12.920 the toll transponders you have in your car,

00:10:15.340 easy pass or something like that.

00:10:16.820 So the transponder transmits all kinds of information

00:10:21.160 about the airplane,

00:10:23.700 the flight number,

00:10:24.860 where it's going, et cetera, et cetera,

00:10:27.000 altitude.

00:10:29.240 It piggybacks on the data coming in

00:10:32.920 with raw primary radar.

00:10:35.780 So we know that the transponder turned off.

00:10:42.340 Did it turn itself off or did someone turn it off?

00:10:46.920 Well, given that it's totally unrelated to communications,

00:10:50.620 it happened seconds after communications stopped.

00:10:54.160 And given that it is totally unrelated

00:10:56.180 to which way the airplane's flying,

00:10:58.140 it happened at the same time

00:11:00.120 that the airplane made its first radical, crazy turn.

00:11:02.900 And we know it was turned off.

00:11:05.120 It didn't turn itself off.

00:11:06.600 These are independent.

00:11:07.860 These would be independent issues.

00:11:09.920 So, yeah.

00:11:11.880 That's what happens.

00:11:12.280 It's a logical deduction.

00:11:13.500 What about the second transponder?

00:11:14.900 Turned off the transponder.

00:11:15.840 Were they both turned off?

00:11:17.960 Because you say there's a backup.

00:11:19.420 They both would have been turned off?

00:11:20.740 Yeah, well, no, they weren't.

00:11:22.500 You can't turn off the primary.

00:11:24.460 I mean, the primary is what the military uses

00:11:27.540 to see pieces of metal in the sky, right?

00:11:30.400 They don't rely on transponders to say

00:11:32.060 when the enemy is invading their airspace.

00:11:34.660 So primary transponder, you can't turn it off.

00:11:37.300 It's just going to pick you up.

00:11:38.840 And in fact, the Malaysian air traffic control

00:11:42.300 has a baseline, a primary radar,

00:11:46.580 but they didn't look at it.

00:11:48.400 We're talking levels of incompetence here, right?

00:11:50.880 Which is part of the story of what happened here

00:11:52.960 in terms of the disappearance.

00:11:54.320 The military very quickly admitted basically out of Penang

00:12:01.380 on the peninsula there where they have a fighter base

00:12:06.480 that they were watching it.

00:12:10.280 Or at least they said they were watching it.

00:12:11.860 They should have been watching it.

00:12:13.440 And they said, well, we knew it was a friend.

00:12:18.100 We knew what the airplane was.

00:12:19.720 So we didn't bother to make anything out of it.

00:12:22.940 We didn't send any interceptors up to find out what's going on

00:12:28.600 because we knew it was MH370.

00:12:30.200 So who cares?

00:12:31.780 Well, that falls apart in a hurry

00:12:33.620 because the search, the initial search,

00:12:36.640 took place in the South China Sea.

00:12:39.540 Totally the wrong place.

00:12:40.940 As if the airplane had gone down on course for Beijing.

00:12:45.200 And the military, so that is just completely not believable.

00:12:50.080 It very quickly was obviously a cover-up,

00:12:52.980 which is completely believable in Malaysia.

00:12:57.100 Political embarrassment, corruption, brutality, whatever.

00:13:00.220 Dysfunctional government, dysfunctional military.

00:13:03.540 They were either asleep,

00:13:05.560 and there's some indication they may actually have been asleep,

00:13:08.480 or they were just incompetent.

00:13:11.800 The military was, in one way or another,

00:13:14.780 was tracking this thing right along

00:13:16.820 and didn't do anything about it.

00:13:19.040 Why ask them?

00:13:21.360 I've tried.

00:13:23.260 You don't get very far with that kind of question in Malaysia.

00:13:26.340 So the primary radar was showing it.

00:13:32.120 And it was, let's say, it was both the military radar

00:13:35.420 and the civilian primary radar.

00:13:37.300 The military fessed up a lot sooner than the civilian did

00:13:42.260 to having had primary radar on this machine, on this airplane.

00:13:47.400 But they came up with all kinds of crazy excuses

00:13:51.900 why they didn't do anything about it.

00:13:53.800 So we don't know.

00:13:55.560 I mean, truly, they could have been asleep.

00:13:58.240 Is there a record of it?

00:14:01.360 So we know it did, in fact, appear on the radar.

00:14:04.260 And the real question is just,

00:14:05.520 why didn't they do anything about it?

00:14:06.680 They were asleep.

00:14:07.460 They didn't care.

00:14:08.320 They were incompetent.

00:14:09.160 But do we know it did, in fact, appear on their radar?

00:14:11.620 Yeah, we do.

00:14:13.540 I mean, the images exist, and not the full radar record,

00:14:18.040 but they certainly exist.

00:14:20.400 And they were pretty widely disseminated.

00:14:23.600 Yes, we do.

00:14:24.820 There it is.

00:14:25.620 They provided images that showed it,

00:14:28.420 but then provided false explanations for their inaction.

00:14:32.900 Got it.

00:14:34.100 And this is all relevant to what I think is your belief

00:14:38.540 as to why this plane did what it did.

00:14:41.020 And that relates to the pilot.

00:14:43.540 And that explains,

00:14:44.680 if it relates to an intentional decision by the pilot,

00:14:47.320 why there might have been a cover-up,

00:14:49.500 why the Malaysian government might have misled us.

00:14:52.240 I mean, it really does explain a lot

00:14:54.180 if this was an intentional downing of an aircraft

00:14:57.520 by the pilot.

00:14:59.000 But to this day, the Malaysians are saying,

00:15:01.520 that's not what this was.

00:15:03.220 That wasn't it.

00:15:04.900 So let's talk about, before we get into the pilot,

00:15:07.160 let's just talk about the end of the flight

00:15:08.600 so we can take the viewers and the listeners there.

00:15:13.300 Then it turns south over the Indian Ocean,

00:15:15.940 which is a bear of an ocean.

00:15:17.780 My God, the videotapes I've seen

00:15:20.600 of the retrieval efforts they did make,

00:15:25.120 the Australians did, the Chinese did.

00:15:27.740 There were a few efforts to actually see

00:15:30.040 if they could find debris someplace in the Indian Ocean.

00:15:32.880 More than three years of efforts,

00:15:36.400 primarily by the Australians.

00:15:39.060 And the $120 million on that.

00:15:42.060 And we've got some videotape of those boats out there

00:15:45.120 trying to do it.

00:15:45.760 And it was just, it was chilling to me

00:15:48.280 because the waves they dealt with,

00:15:50.400 like, that is a scary ocean.

00:15:53.120 And they were on it for a long time.

00:15:54.860 And that's where we believe this aircraft wound up.

00:15:57.840 But one of the mysteries is,

00:16:00.920 in this post-9-11 world,

00:16:02.800 in which this plane may have been taken down,

00:16:05.840 why wouldn't the passengers have fought?

00:16:08.480 Why would they have allowed,

00:16:10.320 somebody might have realized at some point

00:16:11.840 it was making weird turns.

00:16:13.520 They were well past the number of hours

00:16:15.600 it would have taken them to get to Beijing

00:16:17.120 by the time we believe the plane went down.

00:16:19.160 So what happened to the passengers?

00:16:22.660 What do you think?

00:16:23.260 It's, no one really knows,

00:16:27.940 but it's because of the amount of time that transpired,

00:16:31.180 it's likely that they were incapacitated

00:16:33.540 in one way or another very early in the event, right?

00:16:37.200 So after, right after the first left turn,

00:16:40.740 the turning away from Beijing,

00:16:42.140 we know the airplane climbed to 40,000 feet.

00:16:47.020 It had been at 35,000 feet.

00:16:49.060 40,000 feet was the,

00:16:50.960 pretty much the ceiling of the airplane,

00:16:52.360 the performance ceiling at that time,

00:16:53.900 that weight, that night.

00:16:55.820 So they climbed as high as they could go.

00:16:58.860 And it's, I think there would be general agreement.

00:17:03.080 Well, there's a lot of disagreement here

00:17:05.320 because people have all kinds of crazy theories,

00:17:07.220 but reasonable people think

00:17:09.600 that the passengers were incapacitated

00:17:12.200 and actually probably killed

00:17:14.060 by depressurizing the airplane.

00:17:17.540 Very easy to do.

00:17:19.560 You depress, you throw a switch,

00:17:20.980 you depressurize the cabin.

00:17:23.500 The people basically go to sleep.

00:17:26.400 And, you know, masks fall,

00:17:30.260 but they put them on,

00:17:31.360 but they're no good at that altitude.

00:17:33.560 I mean, those are masks are good

00:17:35.040 only for riding a short descent

00:17:37.360 down to higher pressures

00:17:39.120 in the lower altitudes.

00:17:40.580 At 40,000 feet,

00:17:41.840 the mask is really not going to do you

00:17:43.180 a normal mask.

00:17:44.180 But in the cockpit,

00:17:46.100 there are four pressure masks,

00:17:49.560 which are different, right?

00:17:50.820 They pressurize the oxygen flow to the lungs.

00:17:53.080 So you have a sort of a mini pressurized airplane

00:17:56.440 if you put that mask on.

00:17:57.840 They're quick donning masks.

00:17:59.280 So slap those on,

00:18:01.680 depressurize the airplane.

00:18:02.760 Everybody in the back dies within minutes.

00:18:06.740 A peaceful death.

00:18:08.200 Not screaming.

00:18:08.780 How?

00:18:09.220 How would it be a peaceful death?

00:18:12.600 Because people go to,

00:18:13.780 it's extreme hypoxia.

00:18:15.500 People go to sleep.

00:18:17.240 They don't,

00:18:17.620 they're not gasping for breath.

00:18:20.180 Really?

00:18:20.660 They don't feel that they're suffocating.

00:18:22.020 Yeah.

00:18:24.160 Hypoxia.

00:18:25.740 So it seems,

00:18:27.780 I think many people would agree

00:18:29.880 that the airplane was depressurized

00:18:33.220 at roughly the same time

00:18:35.180 that the entire electrical system was shut down,

00:18:37.720 which is another matter.

00:18:39.720 And this is all very closely associated

00:18:44.520 with the first left turn away from Beijing

00:18:46.620 and a short,

00:18:48.260 a tight turn,

00:18:49.160 high G load turn

00:18:50.140 and a climb to 40,000 feet.

00:18:52.940 If you were going to depressurize the aircraft

00:18:54.720 with a switch,

00:18:55.880 why would you need to go up to 40,000 feet?

00:18:58.900 You don't.

00:19:00.060 So, you know,

00:19:00.520 that's like overkill,

00:19:01.780 but it makes it happen faster.

00:19:04.240 So, yeah.

00:19:05.320 And you'd also don't need to make a tight turn.

00:19:08.060 We know that that initial turn away from Beijing

00:19:10.380 was not flown on autopilot.

00:19:12.940 It was too tight for an autopilot.

00:19:15.000 It was flown by hand.

00:19:17.280 And it was,

00:19:18.040 somebody was flying that airplane

00:19:19.140 that made that turn.

00:19:20.600 It was a tight turn,

00:19:21.540 steep,

00:19:22.220 steep bank angle,

00:19:23.320 high bank angle,

00:19:25.140 high G load.

00:19:26.240 Why would that be the choice?

00:19:29.000 I don't know.

00:19:30.760 I don't know.

00:19:31.520 That doesn't tell you anything.

00:19:32.960 Not entirely rational,

00:19:34.260 obviously.

00:19:34.640 So, then we go out over the Indian Ocean

00:19:39.440 and we go south.

00:19:40.380 For how many hours was it over the Indian Ocean?

00:19:45.040 Well, the whole flight lasted, what,

00:19:46.960 seven hours,

00:19:48.240 six hours,

00:19:49.980 I think probably five hours

00:19:51.180 over the Indian Ocean,

00:19:52.020 something like that.

00:19:54.380 Yeah.

00:19:55.220 I'm going to guess.

00:19:56.200 I'd have to go back and look at my notes

00:19:57.960 and all that.

00:19:58.780 That's been a long time for me.

00:19:59.800 But several hours.

00:20:00.780 Five hours,

00:20:01.160 several hours.

00:20:01.680 Actually over the Indian Ocean.

00:20:03.600 That's a long time,

00:20:04.760 by the way.

00:20:06.380 Right.

00:20:07.020 So,

00:20:07.540 is there anything to be gleaned from that?

00:20:12.000 No.

00:20:12.860 I mean,

00:20:13.420 why would,

00:20:14.440 if a guy

00:20:15.760 is suicidal

00:20:17.580 and intent

00:20:18.380 on killing himself

00:20:19.660 and all his passengers,

00:20:21.640 why would he wait

00:20:23.680 so long

00:20:24.180 to do it?

00:20:25.240 That's totally unknown.

00:20:27.320 I have

00:20:28.120 a theory,

00:20:30.300 which is nothing,

00:20:31.260 nothing at all

00:20:32.480 solid,

00:20:33.760 is,

00:20:34.000 is,

00:20:34.300 is that the,

00:20:36.100 if indeed the captain

00:20:37.080 did this,

00:20:37.600 and I think he did,

00:20:38.420 okay,

00:20:38.600 why waltz around this,

00:20:40.400 his name's Zahari,

00:20:42.640 he may have,

00:20:45.500 having committed

00:20:47.420 to this flight path

00:20:49.140 that he presumably

00:20:50.320 actually had

00:20:50.980 thought through

00:20:51.920 in advance

00:20:52.580 and practiced

00:20:53.440 on a flight simulator,

00:20:55.160 that he,

00:20:56.200 that he found himself

00:20:57.960 in a quandary,

00:20:59.440 that he actually

00:21:00.760 knew he couldn't

00:21:03.940 turn back.

00:21:04.960 For one thing,

00:21:05.420 he probably killed

00:21:06.140 the entire

00:21:06.540 plane load of passengers,

00:21:08.220 and also he just deviated,

00:21:09.880 you know,

00:21:10.120 from the course

00:21:10.880 to Beijing,

00:21:12.080 that he couldn't

00:21:12.900 go back home

00:21:13.620 ever again,

00:21:14.900 that he knew

00:21:15.820 that he had to die,

00:21:18.120 that,

00:21:18.320 but,

00:21:18.460 he didn't want

00:21:22.120 to die,

00:21:22.480 maybe,

00:21:22.780 or he was

00:21:23.680 savoring the last

00:21:25.720 moments of his life.

00:21:27.940 I don't know.

00:21:29.320 It's always struck me

00:21:30.540 is that that long flight,

00:21:32.700 the length of that flight,

00:21:34.380 after he made

00:21:35.120 that last turn

00:21:36.140 out over the Indian Ocean

00:21:37.300 and then flew

00:21:37.880 pretty much straight

00:21:38.660 for five hours,

00:21:40.760 let's say,

00:21:41.780 that he was in a,

00:21:43.700 some kind of an emotional

00:21:45.160 or philosophical

00:21:46.120 quandary.

00:21:47.760 I wanted to,

00:21:49.440 I don't want to,

00:21:50.040 I want to,

00:21:50.480 I don't want to,

00:21:51.000 and it just went on

00:21:51.680 until he ran out of gas.

00:21:53.100 He couldn't quite

00:21:53.880 bring himself

00:21:54.600 to do it,

00:21:55.740 and finally,

00:21:56.420 he let it

00:21:57.080 do it to him,

00:21:58.300 but I don't know that,

00:22:01.080 and I know

00:22:01.960 that nobody knows that,

00:22:03.600 that that's,

00:22:04.280 why would he take

00:22:05.040 five hours

00:22:05.580 when I just do

00:22:06.520 what every other

00:22:07.160 suicidal pilot does,

00:22:08.580 and there are quite a few

00:22:09.380 that have been around,

00:22:10.220 you know,

00:22:10.480 this is a fairly,

00:22:11.820 not standard,

00:22:12.660 but an occasional

00:22:13.500 occurrence,

00:22:14.660 you push the airplane

00:22:16.160 into the ground

00:22:16.780 right away,

00:22:18.080 within minutes,

00:22:19.020 you don't wait around,

00:22:20.300 so he waited around

00:22:21.160 for five hours,

00:22:22.040 so I cannot explain that.

00:22:24.660 It's incredibly eerie

00:22:26.100 to think about

00:22:26.880 that man up there

00:22:27.860 potentially flying

00:22:28.940 that aircraft

00:22:29.640 with dead bodies

00:22:31.620 filling up the cabin,

00:22:33.220 dead at his hand.

00:22:34.160 Just shut the door,

00:22:35.480 he's,

00:22:35.920 the door's shut,

00:22:36.820 he doesn't need

00:22:37.240 to worry about that.

00:22:39.160 But he knew,

00:22:39.900 is my point,

00:22:40.440 he knew it was

00:22:41.340 on his soul,

00:22:42.140 it was on his

00:22:42.560 moral conscience.

00:22:44.080 But what about

00:22:44.580 the co-pilot

00:22:45.200 under this theory?

00:22:46.580 Well,

00:22:47.060 now you're bringing

00:22:47.680 that up,

00:22:48.160 so yes,

00:22:49.260 it's inconceivable

00:22:51.840 that the co-pilot

00:22:53.260 was involved in this.

00:22:55.820 He was a young man,

00:22:56.940 he was getting married,

00:22:58.580 he,

00:22:59.000 he was 24 years old,

00:23:02.080 27 years old,

00:23:03.600 Farik Hamid,

00:23:05.240 he,

00:23:05.880 he,

00:23:06.460 he was riding high

00:23:08.140 because to be

00:23:08.840 a co-pilot,

00:23:09.940 that a first officer

00:23:10.920 on a Boeing 777

00:23:12.180 in Malaysia,

00:23:13.680 in Malaysia,

00:23:14.960 is a really big deal

00:23:16.480 in society.

00:23:17.880 So he was just

00:23:18.780 riding as high

00:23:20.420 as you can ride

00:23:21.620 almost in Malaysia.

00:23:24.100 And he was about

00:23:25.440 to get married

00:23:26.040 and all this.

00:23:26.760 He was not political,

00:23:28.340 he was not religious,

00:23:30.220 he,

00:23:30.720 there was no motive

00:23:32.680 conceivable

00:23:33.740 for this guy.

00:23:34.860 We know he was not

00:23:36.200 involved in this.

00:23:37.320 so we know

00:23:38.500 that he had

00:23:39.520 to be eliminated

00:23:40.400 one way

00:23:43.440 or another.

00:23:44.260 Now,

00:23:44.420 the obvious one

00:23:45.060 is to lock,

00:23:45.780 that the captain

00:23:46.380 locked him out.

00:23:47.500 We've seen this before

00:23:48.760 in the German wings

00:23:50.360 accident

00:23:50.840 in Europe.

00:23:53.740 The co-pilot

00:23:54.160 locked the captain

00:23:55.120 out when he went

00:23:55.880 to the toilet.

00:23:58.800 And we've seen

00:23:59.680 variations

00:24:00.220 of the lockout

00:24:01.300 theme,

00:24:02.520 where you get

00:24:03.080 yourself alone

00:24:03.760 in the cabin

00:24:04.340 and then

00:24:05.660 you crash

00:24:06.120 the airplane.

00:24:08.160 If that's

00:24:08.800 your,

00:24:09.100 you know,

00:24:09.440 desire.

00:24:11.460 I,

00:24:12.100 I don't know

00:24:13.600 how long

00:24:13.920 we can go

00:24:14.340 on this,

00:24:14.760 but

00:24:14.920 after I wrote

00:24:17.260 this piece,

00:24:18.640 a man approached

00:24:19.460 me,

00:24:19.740 a man I've known

00:24:20.280 for a long time,

00:24:21.040 I guess I should

00:24:21.560 not name him,

00:24:22.820 but he's one

00:24:23.640 of the

00:24:24.160 preeminent

00:24:25.320 human factors

00:24:26.140 accident

00:24:27.540 investigators

00:24:28.220 in the world

00:24:29.120 and

00:24:30.760 very well

00:24:32.700 known

00:24:33.000 and very

00:24:34.240 respected

00:24:34.780 and had

00:24:38.060 a private

00:24:38.420 conversation

00:24:38.960 with me.

00:24:40.240 And he said

00:24:41.180 that he was

00:24:41.720 doing studies

00:24:42.420 on,

00:24:44.600 he was doing

00:24:46.340 studies on

00:24:46.980 voice analysis

00:24:48.480 of the radio

00:24:50.300 transmissions.

00:24:51.120 Now,

00:24:51.240 remember,

00:24:52.040 the cockpit

00:24:53.460 voice recorder

00:24:54.160 was never found.

00:24:55.240 So all they

00:24:55.740 had to go on

00:24:56.320 for human

00:24:58.000 factors with

00:24:58.820 voice were

00:24:59.720 the radio

00:25:00.300 transmissions.

00:25:01.740 I had noticed

00:25:02.880 and I wrote

00:25:03.500 about the fact

00:25:04.340 that the

00:25:05.140 captain,

00:25:05.700 he was handling

00:25:06.440 the radios

00:25:07.200 and the

00:25:07.660 copilot was

00:25:08.340 handling the

00:25:09.040 flying of the

00:25:10.200 airplane or

00:25:10.660 managing the

00:25:11.120 copilot,

00:25:11.740 the autopilot

00:25:13.040 and totally

00:25:15.060 normal on

00:25:16.700 departure from

00:25:17.480 Kuala Lumpur

00:25:18.140 that the

00:25:19.180 captain's

00:25:19.860 Zahari,

00:25:20.900 his radio

00:25:21.400 transmissions

00:25:21.960 were weird.

00:25:23.140 He was making

00:25:24.460 unnecessary,

00:25:26.020 unusual,

00:25:26.320 radio

00:25:28.040 transmissions.

00:25:29.680 I noticed

00:25:30.860 it from

00:25:32.160 the transcripts.

00:25:33.240 I never

00:25:33.640 heard them,

00:25:35.340 but from

00:25:36.200 the transcripts,

00:25:36.940 you could

00:25:37.460 tell.

00:25:38.800 Why do you

00:25:39.280 do that?

00:25:40.040 This is

00:25:40.500 reporting level

00:25:41.380 when he

00:25:41.640 shouldn't have

00:25:41.940 reported level,

00:25:42.680 reporting level

00:25:43.340 again when

00:25:43.980 there was no

00:25:44.660 reason,

00:25:44.980 he hadn't

00:25:45.240 changed his

00:25:45.680 altitude.

00:25:47.020 He was just

00:25:47.500 blowing the

00:25:49.340 final response

00:25:50.200 where he

00:25:50.620 should have

00:25:50.880 read back

00:25:51.280 a frequency

00:25:51.720 and didn't

00:25:52.080 do it.

00:25:54.580 Why?

00:25:56.320 I made

00:25:57.060 a note

00:25:57.380 of that

00:25:57.780 and didn't

00:25:58.660 have an

00:25:58.980 answer when

00:25:59.540 I wrote

00:25:59.780 the piece.

00:26:01.260 This

00:26:01.780 highly

00:26:02.780 respected

00:26:03.220 man

00:26:03.520 approached

00:26:03.880 me a

00:26:05.500 little bit

00:26:05.780 later and

00:26:07.500 he had

00:26:08.080 been associated

00:26:09.500 with the

00:26:09.900 investigation in

00:26:10.980 Kuala Lumpur.

00:26:11.700 and he

00:26:12.800 said that

00:26:13.380 he and

00:26:15.440 a partner

00:26:16.120 have been

00:26:17.120 doing studies

00:26:17.760 for years

00:26:18.280 about measuring

00:26:20.620 stress in

00:26:22.300 people's voices

00:26:22.980 and largely

00:26:23.620 with either

00:26:25.200 cockpit voice

00:26:26.080 recorders or

00:26:27.740 with radio

00:26:30.380 transmissions.

00:26:31.760 And I'm

00:26:32.460 going to get

00:26:32.780 this wrong,

00:26:34.220 so don't

00:26:35.700 quote me on

00:26:36.340 this.

00:26:37.140 But what he

00:26:38.040 said to me,

00:26:38.700 and I have

00:26:39.200 every reason to

00:26:39.900 believe him,

00:26:40.400 a very,

00:26:41.080 very sober

00:26:41.720 guy,

00:26:42.500 is that

00:26:43.580 they know,

00:26:45.340 they have

00:26:45.660 found that

00:26:46.300 as people's

00:26:48.040 stress goes

00:26:48.800 up in

00:26:50.300 airplane

00:26:50.660 accidents and

00:26:51.760 also in

00:26:52.300 certain shipping

00:26:53.260 accidents,

00:26:54.540 that you can

00:26:55.700 measure changes

00:26:56.660 in the

00:26:57.460 timber, I

00:26:58.820 think is the

00:26:59.120 word, the

00:26:59.900 tone of the

00:27:01.440 voice, it

00:27:02.700 gets higher,

00:27:03.620 okay, as the

00:27:04.380 stress goes up.

00:27:05.080 language becomes

00:27:10.340 more and more

00:27:10.840 confused.

00:27:11.900 So the first

00:27:12.720 level is

00:27:13.200 normal, say

00:27:13.860 baseline, normal

00:27:15.360 radio transmission.

00:27:17.020 The second

00:27:17.520 level, it's

00:27:19.240 getting a little

00:27:20.020 bit higher,

00:27:21.540 the level,

00:27:22.300 let's call that

00:27:22.620 level two.

00:27:23.620 The third

00:27:24.420 level is it's

00:27:25.100 getting higher

00:27:27.220 and also

00:27:27.960 confused,

00:27:28.680 grammatically

00:27:29.120 confused,

00:27:30.500 like they're not

00:27:31.080 really talking in

00:27:32.040 normal sentences.

00:27:32.860 and the

00:27:34.660 fourth level

00:27:35.160 is something.

00:27:35.820 And the fifth

00:27:36.240 level is just

00:27:36.860 howling screams

00:27:37.820 as people are

00:27:39.380 dying.

00:27:40.100 This guy has

00:27:40.660 listened to more

00:27:41.260 people dying on

00:27:42.200 tape than

00:27:43.180 probably anybody

00:27:43.760 in the world.

00:27:45.420 And he also

00:27:46.800 told me that

00:27:47.360 it's 90% of

00:27:50.300 pilots who

00:27:51.500 die in a

00:27:52.300 cockpit are

00:27:53.820 screaming when

00:27:54.500 they die.

00:27:55.400 10% aren't.

00:27:57.860 And he

00:27:59.460 doesn't know

00:27:59.900 why, but

00:28:01.040 10% stay

00:28:02.040 cool.

00:28:02.340 And I

00:28:02.640 know certain

00:28:03.140 situations,

00:28:04.080 certain Brazilian

00:28:04.820 flight, for

00:28:05.440 instance, where

00:28:06.220 the Brazilian

00:28:07.180 pilots would

00:28:07.780 just state

00:28:08.160 cool, cool,

00:28:09.680 cool.

00:28:10.880 But most of

00:28:11.840 them scream.

00:28:13.220 And in the

00:28:14.460 very end,

00:28:15.820 in this

00:28:16.280 flight, he

00:28:17.960 measured and

00:28:19.080 he had a

00:28:19.540 graph and

00:28:20.660 showed me the

00:28:21.180 graphs, the

00:28:22.240 changes in

00:28:23.060 Sahari's voice

00:28:25.060 and radio

00:28:26.500 transmissions from

00:28:27.320 the ground,

00:28:28.400 where he was

00:28:28.820 talking to

00:28:29.220 ground control

00:28:29.920 at the

00:28:30.740 airport,

00:28:31.600 through the

00:28:32.380 takeoff, to

00:28:33.720 the point of

00:28:34.220 leveling off

00:28:34.940 to the

00:28:36.260 first unnecessary

00:28:37.560 transmissions

00:28:38.420 that I had

00:28:39.620 noticed were

00:28:40.040 strange, but

00:28:41.180 okay, I

00:28:42.920 don't know why

00:28:43.320 maybe he was

00:28:44.000 getting sloppy.

00:28:44.600 And it

00:28:45.980 went up the

00:28:46.780 scale.

00:28:48.360 It got to

00:28:49.320 level, you

00:28:50.040 know, three

00:28:50.780 or something.

00:28:51.740 He was

00:28:52.200 mixing his

00:28:53.180 language, his

00:28:54.800 voice was

00:28:55.380 really high,

00:28:57.220 Sahari.

00:28:58.440 And it

00:28:58.920 peaked right

00:29:00.380 after, soon

00:29:01.360 after the

00:29:02.140 initial level

00:29:02.800 off at

00:29:03.280 37,000 feet.

00:29:05.140 And then as

00:29:06.240 the minutes

00:29:06.600 went by, there

00:29:07.460 were another,

00:29:08.060 say, seven or

00:29:09.020 ten minutes

00:29:09.460 before the

00:29:09.940 airplane turned

00:29:10.640 and disappeared.

00:29:13.480 His subsequent

00:29:14.620 radio transmissions

00:29:15.500 began to

00:29:16.220 descend, that

00:29:16.900 began to

00:29:17.300 normalize, never

00:29:18.920 got normal.

00:29:20.620 On the basis

00:29:21.340 of that, though

00:29:22.400 you can't prove

00:29:23.440 it at all, he

00:29:24.720 believes that

00:29:25.740 what happened

00:29:26.200 to the

00:29:26.460 co-pilot was

00:29:27.900 that the

00:29:28.240 captain attacked

00:29:29.060 the co-pilot

00:29:29.680 right after

00:29:30.820 leveling off.

00:29:32.120 Now, there

00:29:32.420 are various

00:29:32.720 ways that you

00:29:33.220 can kill a

00:29:33.940 guy sitting

00:29:34.440 in the

00:29:35.020 cockpit with

00:29:35.620 you, including

00:29:36.140 crash axes

00:29:38.240 and whatever

00:29:38.640 it is.

00:29:40.840 So he

00:29:41.840 believes that

00:29:42.540 he has

00:29:44.060 audible

00:29:46.460 evidence of

00:29:47.960 an attack

00:29:48.600 that occurred

00:29:49.740 in the

00:29:50.040 cockpit.

00:29:50.960 I don't

00:29:51.580 know if

00:29:51.880 that's true.

00:29:52.560 He doesn't

00:29:53.020 know if

00:29:53.280 that's true.

00:29:53.880 He's a

00:29:54.300 sober guy.

00:29:56.020 I'm a

00:29:56.740 sober guy.

00:29:57.720 So it's

00:29:58.500 interesting.

00:29:59.360 It does

00:29:59.880 make sense.

00:30:03.140 We don't

00:30:03.960 know exactly

00:30:04.540 what happened

00:30:05.160 to the

00:30:05.560 first officer

00:30:06.160 of the

00:30:06.340 co-pilot,

00:30:06.840 but we

00:30:07.340 do know

00:30:07.940 he wasn't

00:30:09.160 up there

00:30:09.480 sucking his

00:30:10.020 thumb when

00:30:10.920 the other

00:30:11.160 guy was

00:30:11.480 flying for

00:30:12.000 seven hours

00:30:12.980 like that.

00:30:13.500 I mean,

00:30:13.680 he was

00:30:14.160 incapacitated

00:30:15.060 too.

00:30:16.240 Did the

00:30:16.680 captain send

00:30:17.280 him back

00:30:17.740 to the

00:30:18.560 bathroom?

00:30:19.540 Did he

00:30:19.860 go back

00:30:20.260 by himself?

00:30:21.460 That would

00:30:22.000 be unusual

00:30:22.560 because they

00:30:23.000 had just

00:30:23.280 taken off

00:30:23.840 from

00:30:24.020 Kuala

00:30:24.280 Port

00:30:24.560 and they

00:30:24.800 hadn't

00:30:25.020 been in

00:30:25.260 the air

00:30:25.400 very long

00:30:25.960 and get

00:30:27.540 locked out

00:30:27.980 by the

00:30:28.240 captain?

00:30:29.460 Was it

00:30:29.960 a lockout?

00:30:31.480 We don't

00:30:32.000 know.

00:30:32.480 But if he

00:30:32.900 was away

00:30:33.400 from the

00:30:33.700 cockpit,

00:30:34.100 he wouldn't

00:30:34.380 have had

00:30:34.800 pressure

00:30:36.000 oxygen.

00:30:38.000 He would

00:30:38.380 have been

00:30:38.840 just like

00:30:39.440 the passengers

00:30:39.940 and the

00:30:40.280 flight

00:30:40.460 attendants

00:30:40.940 susceptible

00:30:41.860 to

00:30:42.200 depressurization.

00:30:43.660 We don't

00:30:44.160 know.

00:30:44.740 All he

00:30:45.020 needed to

00:30:45.400 do was

00:30:45.720 come up

00:30:46.000 with some

00:30:46.280 excuse to

00:30:46.800 get him

00:30:47.000 out of

00:30:47.180 the

00:30:47.280 cockpit and

00:30:47.900 then he

00:30:48.160 would have

00:30:48.400 been just

00:30:48.720 like the

00:30:48.980 other

00:30:49.120 passengers.

00:30:50.060 Can I

00:30:50.240 just clarify

00:30:50.640 something,

00:30:51.100 William,

00:30:51.880 did you

00:30:53.360 say that

00:30:53.900 this gentleman

00:30:54.680 picked up

00:30:56.700 on radio

00:30:57.180 transmissions

00:30:57.800 that happened

00:30:58.360 after they

00:30:59.100 signed off?

00:31:00.020 You know,

00:31:00.540 Malaysia

00:31:01.240 flight 370

00:31:02.640 goodnight?

00:31:03.920 No.

00:31:04.160 They happened

00:31:04.480 after that?

00:31:05.660 No,

00:31:05.940 before,

00:31:06.360 before.

00:31:07.240 That goodnight,

00:31:09.320 that was the

00:31:10.800 last radio

00:31:11.420 transmission.

00:31:12.760 These are

00:31:13.460 radio transmissions

00:31:14.260 that started

00:31:14.900 on the ground,

00:31:15.840 call that

00:31:16.160 baseline,

00:31:17.480 normal,

00:31:18.440 and ended

00:31:19.180 with the

00:31:19.620 final sign-off.

00:31:20.480 And they

00:31:21.360 peaked in

00:31:22.180 their

00:31:22.360 strangeness

00:31:23.040 and the

00:31:23.320 stress level

00:31:23.840 that could

00:31:24.100 be measured

00:31:24.520 in the

00:31:24.820 voice and

00:31:25.680 the changes

00:31:26.260 in the

00:31:26.660 voice right

00:31:28.020 after the

00:31:28.400 airplane leveled

00:31:29.140 off at

00:31:30.080 37,000.

00:31:32.340 Wow.

00:31:33.000 So he

00:31:33.260 could have,

00:31:33.980 it's possible

00:31:34.660 under this

00:31:35.160 theory that

00:31:35.620 he could have

00:31:36.020 killed the

00:31:36.400 copilot before

00:31:37.740 he even signed

00:31:38.560 off with

00:31:39.620 air traffic

00:31:39.980 control.

00:31:40.440 Yeah,

00:31:40.660 I'm not

00:31:41.400 tabloid.

00:31:42.100 I don't think

00:31:42.740 you are

00:31:43.040 either.

00:31:43.740 And so,

00:31:44.420 you know,

00:31:44.820 we veer too

00:31:45.620 easily into

00:31:46.220 the tabloid

00:31:47.000 territory here,

00:31:47.980 but it is a

00:31:49.540 possible explanation.

00:31:50.300 And I

00:31:51.380 mentioned it

00:31:52.300 because I

00:31:53.160 have such

00:31:53.500 deep respect

00:31:55.680 for the guy

00:31:56.200 who brought

00:31:56.800 it up to

00:31:57.140 me,

00:31:57.360 who made

00:31:57.660 it a special

00:31:58.080 trip to

00:31:58.520 see me,

00:31:59.480 to explain

00:32:00.500 this to me

00:32:00.960 with evidence.

00:32:02.340 And I've

00:32:04.000 long,

00:32:04.540 long known

00:32:05.460 and respected

00:32:06.240 him.

00:32:06.580 And you

00:32:06.840 can't get

00:32:07.280 more sober

00:32:08.960 than this

00:32:09.960 guy is.

00:32:10.560 He's not a

00:32:11.060 crazy in any

00:32:11.900 way.

00:32:12.180 He's very

00:32:12.980 serious.

00:32:13.480 Let's talk

00:32:20.120 about possible

00:32:20.920 motive and

00:32:22.360 what they

00:32:23.160 found at

00:32:24.340 Zahari's

00:32:25.880 home.

00:32:26.820 Because the

00:32:27.260 flight simulator

00:32:27.960 made a lot

00:32:29.080 of news.

00:32:29.820 The picture of

00:32:30.460 him sitting in

00:32:31.040 front of his

00:32:31.360 home,

00:32:31.760 flight simulator,

00:32:32.820 and they did

00:32:34.320 find a route

00:32:35.060 on there that

00:32:35.860 looks like

00:32:37.020 this one,

00:32:37.600 I'm told.

00:32:38.660 But they

00:32:39.280 also found

00:32:39.980 routes,

00:32:41.080 you know,

00:32:41.420 hundreds of

00:32:42.000 routes on

00:32:42.380 there.

00:32:42.940 And,

00:32:43.400 you know,

00:32:44.540 there's been a

00:32:45.120 debate about

00:32:45.600 how much we

00:32:46.280 can really

00:32:46.680 tell from

00:32:47.760 the fact that

00:32:48.260 that one

00:32:48.800 route may

00:32:50.060 have been

00:32:50.500 on his

00:32:51.320 flight simulator.

00:32:52.320 And also,

00:32:53.260 what was going

00:32:54.080 on in his

00:32:54.580 life.

00:32:54.960 You know,

00:32:55.080 the Malaysians

00:32:55.580 would tell us

00:32:56.020 this is a

00:32:56.340 happy man,

00:32:56.920 well-adjusted

00:32:57.400 man,

00:32:57.620 this is not

00:32:58.000 a depressed

00:32:58.640 guy.

00:32:59.440 There's no

00:32:59.860 reason to

00:33:00.420 think he

00:33:01.420 had it in

00:33:02.540 him to kill

00:33:03.100 239 passengers

00:33:04.540 just on a

00:33:05.700 whim.

00:33:06.080 So,

00:33:06.580 can you speak

00:33:07.080 a little bit

00:33:07.480 about what

00:33:07.880 we know

00:33:08.120 of him

00:33:08.480 outside of

00:33:09.360 the aircraft?

00:33:11.260 Let's take

00:33:11.800 the simulator

00:33:12.280 first.

00:33:12.840 We know

00:33:13.060 that he

00:33:13.340 had the

00:33:13.660 simulator.

00:33:14.180 He was a

00:33:14.500 simulator buff.

00:33:15.520 He was an

00:33:15.920 airplane buff.

00:33:17.000 He was also

00:33:17.480 an internet

00:33:17.900 buff and he

00:33:18.680 was in chat

00:33:19.480 groups and

00:33:20.060 social media

00:33:20.740 and blah,

00:33:21.140 blah,

00:33:21.240 blah.

00:33:22.480 But he

00:33:23.340 was running

00:33:24.880 hundreds of

00:33:25.500 flights.

00:33:26.400 It was a

00:33:26.680 Microsoft

00:33:26.980 simulator,

00:33:27.700 but a

00:33:27.920 fancy setup.

00:33:29.280 It wasn't a

00:33:29.720 full motion

00:33:30.200 simulator,

00:33:31.040 but it was

00:33:31.400 a pretty

00:33:31.900 fancy setup.

00:33:33.060 Invested

00:33:33.440 thousands of

00:33:34.020 dollars into

00:33:34.500 this thing

00:33:34.880 and he

00:33:35.060 played with

00:33:35.540 it a lot.

00:33:36.180 There were

00:33:38.200 hundreds of

00:33:39.620 flights,

00:33:40.000 as you

00:33:40.260 say,

00:33:41.060 that were

00:33:41.480 recorded by

00:33:42.220 that simulator

00:33:42.800 and then

00:33:43.240 rather clumsily

00:33:44.160 erased.

00:33:46.060 But they

00:33:46.920 were all

00:33:47.240 over the

00:33:47.980 map.

00:33:49.060 And then

00:33:49.260 there was

00:33:49.560 this one

00:33:49.940 flight,

00:33:50.660 which was

00:33:51.080 also erased

00:33:51.680 with the

00:33:52.000 other flights.

00:33:52.540 And this

00:33:53.560 flight eerily

00:33:55.040 duplicated

00:33:56.600 the turns,

00:33:58.820 the irrational

00:33:59.600 turns,

00:34:00.360 the flight path

00:34:01.840 with no

00:34:02.180 reason and

00:34:02.940 no destination,

00:34:03.900 no landing

00:34:04.380 airport that

00:34:05.300 actually did

00:34:05.820 occur.

00:34:06.700 That's

00:34:07.180 number one.

00:34:08.560 Number two,

00:34:09.620 and I

00:34:10.020 eventually,

00:34:11.040 I mean,

00:34:11.400 initially put

00:34:12.200 no weight

00:34:12.840 in this.

00:34:13.680 But there

00:34:15.840 are other

00:34:16.140 aspects of

00:34:16.900 it,

00:34:17.080 which

00:34:20.300 amount to

00:34:22.500 that of

00:34:23.240 all those

00:34:23.880 flights,

00:34:25.200 this was

00:34:25.700 the,

00:34:26.040 I think

00:34:26.860 I'm right

00:34:27.220 about this.

00:34:28.660 I could

00:34:29.040 be wrong.

00:34:29.600 But of

00:34:30.060 all those

00:34:30.480 flights,

00:34:30.860 this was

00:34:31.220 the only

00:34:31.880 one that

00:34:32.820 was flown

00:34:33.280 in a very

00:34:33.720 particular

00:34:34.160 way.

00:34:35.120 Whereas the

00:34:35.800 other flights,

00:34:36.660 he would

00:34:37.040 essentially turn

00:34:38.400 on the autopilot

00:34:39.140 and let the

00:34:39.960 simulator fly for

00:34:40.980 hours and run

00:34:42.280 the entire

00:34:42.760 flight smoothly,

00:34:43.900 start to

00:34:44.360 finish.

00:34:44.680 Or maybe

00:34:45.320 he'd stop

00:34:45.860 it and

00:34:46.820 didn't go

00:34:47.420 get a cup

00:34:47.760 of coffee

00:34:48.100 and forget

00:34:48.440 it.

00:34:48.880 But this

00:34:49.820 is a flight

00:34:50.320 in which

00:34:50.720 he advanced

00:34:52.320 the aircraft

00:34:53.380 along that

00:34:54.520 path manually.

00:34:56.620 And it's the

00:34:57.240 only one.

00:34:58.320 So there was a

00:34:58.880 different approach

00:34:59.480 to this flight.

00:35:00.400 So he was as

00:35:01.020 if he was

00:35:01.400 impatient.

00:35:02.240 So he's

00:35:02.620 pushing it

00:35:03.140 forward,

00:35:03.980 pushing it

00:35:04.480 forward,

00:35:05.120 pushing it

00:35:05.580 forward by

00:35:06.420 hand,

00:35:07.060 basically,

00:35:07.800 manually.

00:35:08.840 And then

00:35:09.480 also,

00:35:10.020 I think

00:35:10.420 subtracting the

00:35:11.220 fuel,

00:35:11.460 my impression

00:35:11.940 is that the

00:35:12.900 fuel subtraction

00:35:13.780 was not

00:35:14.180 happening

00:35:14.680 automatically.

00:35:15.240 So he had

00:35:15.660 to punch

00:35:16.660 a few keys

00:35:17.240 and take

00:35:17.980 out some

00:35:18.280 fuel to

00:35:19.840 establish the

00:35:21.060 actual fuel

00:35:21.700 exhaustion

00:35:22.060 point.

00:35:23.680 So there

00:35:24.300 is that,

00:35:24.820 which is

00:35:25.180 odd.

00:35:26.240 And the

00:35:27.080 other thing

00:35:28.180 about the

00:35:30.260 simulator is

00:35:31.440 that there

00:35:34.720 was really

00:35:36.220 no reason

00:35:36.920 to do

00:35:38.220 this.

00:35:39.280 In other

00:35:39.620 words,

00:35:39.980 why would

00:35:40.760 you need

00:35:41.180 a simulator?

00:35:41.860 And that's

00:35:42.240 the other

00:35:42.860 side.

00:35:43.180 maybe

00:35:43.640 that's

00:35:44.500 totally

00:35:44.980 by chance

00:35:45.660 because if

00:35:46.720 I wanted

00:35:47.140 to figure

00:35:47.980 out how

00:35:48.300 I want

00:35:48.480 to crash

00:35:48.800 an airplane,

00:35:49.920 I know

00:35:50.300 how much

00:35:50.600 fuel I've

00:35:50.940 got on

00:35:51.220 board.

00:35:51.840 I know

00:35:52.260 where I

00:35:52.680 want to

00:35:52.880 go down

00:35:53.360 if I

00:35:53.780 want to

00:35:53.960 run out

00:35:54.220 of gas.

00:35:55.460 And I

00:35:55.880 just go

00:35:56.220 to Google

00:35:56.600 Earth.

00:35:57.740 I mean,

00:35:58.040 you can do

00:35:58.340 the same

00:35:58.640 thing on

00:35:58.980 Google Earth.

00:35:59.520 you don't

00:36:01.240 need a

00:36:01.640 simulator for

00:36:02.260 this.

00:36:02.700 Google Earth

00:36:03.240 is free.

00:36:03.760 Why would

00:36:04.180 you use

00:36:04.500 a simulator?

00:36:05.580 What's the

00:36:06.040 answer to

00:36:06.300 that,

00:36:06.500 do you

00:36:06.620 think?

00:36:08.120 I don't

00:36:08.680 know.

00:36:10.420 I mean,

00:36:10.700 is it

00:36:10.920 possible it

00:36:12.780 was a

00:36:13.700 message?

00:36:17.460 People say

00:36:18.140 that and

00:36:19.780 that he was

00:36:20.380 leaving a

00:36:20.740 message,

00:36:21.280 a goodbye.

00:36:22.340 If so,

00:36:22.780 it's a

00:36:23.000 really bizarre

00:36:23.540 goodbye because

00:36:24.900 he erased it

00:36:25.580 along with the

00:36:26.180 other stuff.

00:36:26.680 and he

00:36:26.920 would assume

00:36:28.080 that the

00:36:28.440 FBI and

00:36:29.060 others would

00:36:29.460 come in

00:36:29.760 and find

00:36:30.160 it and

00:36:31.060 pull it

00:36:32.220 out of the

00:36:32.520 memory.

00:36:35.100 That's a

00:36:35.720 really,

00:36:36.000 really obscure

00:36:36.860 way to say

00:36:37.380 goodbye.

00:36:38.520 Was he

00:36:38.840 trying to

00:36:39.300 sow

00:36:39.500 confusion?

00:36:40.660 Well,

00:36:40.880 it didn't

00:36:41.180 sow much

00:36:41.880 confusion.

00:36:43.340 I have

00:36:43.980 no idea.

00:36:45.320 And see,

00:36:45.720 unlike many

00:36:47.140 observers of

00:36:48.080 this accident,

00:36:49.780 amateur

00:36:50.160 observers,

00:36:51.060 and I'm an

00:36:51.520 amateur

00:36:51.840 observer,

00:36:53.120 I don't

00:36:53.840 claim to

00:36:54.520 know everything.

00:36:55.820 There are

00:36:56.200 things about

00:36:56.640 this accident

00:36:57.140 that are

00:36:57.840 unknown and

00:36:59.640 will probably

00:37:00.160 always be

00:37:00.760 unknown.

00:37:03.180 What about

00:37:04.000 his mental

00:37:05.180 state?

00:37:06.140 Was there

00:37:06.780 evidence that

00:37:08.360 this was a

00:37:08.780 depressed guy

00:37:09.480 or his life

00:37:09.960 wasn't going

00:37:10.400 well?

00:37:12.180 Yes.

00:37:15.200 When I was

00:37:15.880 in Kuala Lumpur

00:37:16.580 on this

00:37:17.140 assignment for

00:37:18.320 the Atlantic

00:37:18.960 Monthly,

00:37:21.000 I spent a

00:37:24.320 lot of time

00:37:24.760 on that

00:37:25.160 because it

00:37:26.400 was so

00:37:26.740 obvious to

00:37:27.220 me, it

00:37:27.500 became

00:37:27.860 obvious

00:37:28.180 really

00:37:28.540 quickly that

00:37:30.280 the airplane

00:37:31.060 didn't fail,

00:37:32.200 that the

00:37:32.580 pilot failed,

00:37:33.700 that this

00:37:34.160 was an

00:37:34.460 intentional

00:37:34.800 act, and

00:37:36.140 it fit a

00:37:37.400 pattern of

00:37:38.160 other

00:37:38.520 intentional

00:37:39.080 acts,

00:37:40.060 suicide,

00:37:40.600 murders,

00:37:41.020 that I

00:37:41.380 have written

00:37:41.660 about in

00:37:43.160 the Atlantic

00:37:43.640 over the

00:37:44.440 years.

00:37:46.940 So it

00:37:47.740 wasn't

00:37:48.600 extremely

00:37:50.260 surprising to

00:37:51.000 me that a

00:37:51.460 guy, a

00:37:51.800 pilot, would

00:37:52.220 do this.

00:37:52.780 it does

00:37:54.340 very rarely,

00:37:55.300 but it

00:37:55.520 does occur.

00:37:57.500 The list

00:37:57.980 is, I

00:37:58.640 can name

00:37:59.460 them, it

00:38:00.380 takes probably

00:38:00.900 two hands to

00:38:01.640 name them.

00:38:04.760 So I was

00:38:06.060 immediately,

00:38:07.480 well not

00:38:07.740 immediately, but

00:38:08.360 the farther I got

00:38:09.160 into this, in

00:38:09.860 Kuala Lumpur,

00:38:11.080 wondering about

00:38:11.820 what was the

00:38:12.480 deal with this

00:38:13.020 guy.

00:38:13.880 Well, the

00:38:16.000 Malaysians were

00:38:16.740 putting out a

00:38:17.320 story that

00:38:17.820 everything was

00:38:18.600 hunky-dory,

00:38:19.180 he was

00:38:19.720 sort of

00:38:20.760 in a way

00:38:21.380 like the

00:38:21.800 co-pilot

00:38:22.620 who was

00:38:23.640 indeed

00:38:23.980 hunky-dory,

00:38:24.760 right?

00:38:24.920 He was

00:38:25.160 this young

00:38:25.520 guy getting

00:38:25.880 married.

00:38:27.640 But the

00:38:29.020 more I

00:38:29.420 talked to

00:38:30.080 people, the

00:38:31.140 more I

00:38:31.420 looked around,

00:38:32.840 the more

00:38:33.340 obvious it

00:38:33.920 became to

00:38:34.960 me that

00:38:36.120 he was,

00:38:36.780 despite what

00:38:37.840 the Malaysians

00:38:38.540 were saying,

00:38:39.340 despite what

00:38:39.920 their god-awful

00:38:41.380 police report,

00:38:42.620 this completely

00:38:43.520 corrupted police

00:38:45.200 report said,

00:38:46.780 they painted

00:38:47.760 him as a

00:38:48.280 model citizen,

00:38:49.180 he was

00:38:50.040 deeply, deeply

00:38:51.040 disturbed.

00:38:52.280 He was

00:38:52.620 going through,

00:38:53.200 you could

00:38:53.440 say, an

00:38:54.760 intense

00:38:55.260 midlife

00:38:56.380 crisis.

00:38:57.880 I think

00:38:58.480 that's a

00:38:58.940 polite way

00:38:59.360 of putting

00:38:59.660 it.

00:38:59.840 He was

00:39:00.080 53.

00:39:01.680 His wife

00:39:02.320 had left

00:39:02.680 him.

00:39:03.940 His

00:39:04.180 children

00:39:05.240 were grown

00:39:06.460 and had

00:39:07.420 left also

00:39:08.200 out of the

00:39:10.360 house,

00:39:10.660 normally.

00:39:11.300 But he

00:39:12.240 was alone

00:39:12.700 in his

00:39:13.020 house,

00:39:13.380 big house.

00:39:14.520 He had

00:39:14.880 two houses.

00:39:15.600 His wife

00:39:15.940 had moved

00:39:16.240 into another

00:39:16.760 house.

00:39:18.080 And the

00:39:18.680 first sign

00:39:19.540 of trouble

00:39:20.360 I noticed

00:39:22.100 was that

00:39:22.640 his wife

00:39:23.580 was saying,

00:39:24.240 I think

00:39:24.820 one of his

00:39:25.480 daughters was

00:39:26.080 saying,

00:39:26.720 that everything

00:39:27.240 was normal.

00:39:28.360 Daddy, he's

00:39:29.660 such a nice

00:39:30.100 guy.

00:39:31.040 Everything

00:39:31.260 was fine.

00:39:31.860 He was

00:39:32.060 happy.

00:39:32.380 He wasn't

00:39:32.820 fine.

00:39:33.320 His wife

00:39:33.780 had just

00:39:34.440 left him.

00:39:36.060 And I

00:39:37.320 don't know

00:39:37.580 how soon

00:39:38.460 before the

00:39:38.960 accident,

00:39:39.440 some time

00:39:40.080 before.

00:39:40.440 And then

00:39:43.360 other things

00:39:43.920 began to

00:39:44.540 appear

00:39:44.940 about his

00:39:46.500 mental

00:39:46.860 condition.

00:39:48.000 He was

00:39:48.580 obsessing

00:39:50.160 about

00:39:50.620 some

00:39:52.120 cute

00:39:53.120 little

00:39:53.420 internet

00:39:53.760 models.

00:39:54.300 They were

00:39:54.440 twins,

00:39:55.600 you know,

00:39:55.800 far beneath

00:39:56.520 his age,

00:39:57.380 you know,

00:39:58.120 like professional

00:39:58.840 virgins,

00:39:59.700 right?

00:40:01.520 He was just

00:40:02.480 writing the

00:40:03.300 messages and

00:40:04.260 they were,

00:40:05.180 you know,

00:40:05.760 whatever the

00:40:06.280 word is for

00:40:07.040 that,

00:40:07.300 but they

00:40:08.380 were making

00:40:09.560 a splash

00:40:10.180 in Malaysian

00:40:10.960 society by

00:40:12.320 being cute

00:40:12.820 little,

00:40:13.800 clean cut

00:40:14.480 girls.

00:40:16.080 And it was

00:40:16.580 like really

00:40:17.080 inappropriate for

00:40:17.920 this guy.

00:40:18.240 What is he

00:40:18.560 doing?

00:40:18.960 He's 53

00:40:20.940 and they

00:40:22.000 were, I

00:40:22.280 think, in

00:40:22.540 their 20s.

00:40:23.840 That's weird.

00:40:25.540 A sign of

00:40:26.220 mental distress.

00:40:27.920 And there

00:40:28.140 were other

00:40:28.560 things that

00:40:30.580 began to

00:40:31.140 add up to

00:40:32.180 point to a

00:40:33.060 very unhappy

00:40:33.760 man.

00:40:36.600 And I

00:40:37.220 really don't

00:40:38.140 even talk

00:40:38.720 about them.

00:40:39.500 I think

00:40:39.820 it's appropriate

00:40:40.800 to talk

00:40:41.660 about them.

00:40:42.120 But it

00:40:42.700 became apparent

00:40:43.500 to me that

00:40:44.260 the wife and

00:40:45.780 daughter were

00:40:46.340 covering up

00:40:46.900 for him and

00:40:47.660 the reputation

00:40:48.240 of their

00:40:48.820 husband and

00:40:50.180 father.

00:40:50.760 And also

00:40:51.680 that the

00:40:52.480 Malaysian

00:40:52.880 government was

00:40:53.560 covering up

00:40:54.340 for him because

00:40:55.480 they didn't

00:40:56.720 want to be

00:40:57.000 embarrassed.

00:40:57.460 And that's

00:40:57.700 really typical

00:40:58.340 for a country

00:40:58.980 like Malaysia

00:40:59.680 or let's

00:41:00.020 say for

00:41:00.420 Malaysia.

00:41:00.840 It's very

00:41:01.400 typical.

00:41:02.480 It's all

00:41:03.180 about face

00:41:04.180 saving,

00:41:04.760 covering up,

00:41:05.480 dishonesty,

00:41:06.260 corruption,

00:41:06.620 it's a

00:41:09.460 very dishonest

00:41:10.360 place on

00:41:11.200 some level.

00:41:11.740 When you

00:41:11.860 say there's

00:41:13.260 something more

00:41:13.820 that you

00:41:14.140 don't want

00:41:14.380 to talk

00:41:14.660 about,

00:41:14.880 can you

00:41:15.060 give us

00:41:15.300 a category

00:41:16.040 like sexual

00:41:16.800 or?

00:41:17.740 Sexual.

00:41:18.340 Sexual.

00:41:19.860 But again,

00:41:23.020 I know

00:41:23.980 quite a bit

00:41:25.120 about that

00:41:25.540 now and

00:41:26.340 I never

00:41:27.140 wrote about

00:41:27.580 it.

00:41:29.120 But it

00:41:30.840 does explain.

00:41:32.020 To me,

00:41:32.540 when I was

00:41:33.220 in Malaysia,

00:41:33.720 I really

00:41:34.260 wasn't so

00:41:34.780 interested in

00:41:35.360 his

00:41:35.540 motivations.

00:41:36.620 His

00:41:37.220 motives.

00:41:38.200 Because

00:41:38.600 it became

00:41:40.680 apparent to

00:41:41.120 me that

00:41:41.360 he had

00:41:41.600 done this.

00:41:43.020 And if

00:41:43.820 he had

00:41:44.080 done this,

00:41:45.480 what gain

00:41:47.040 would there

00:41:47.380 be in

00:41:47.980 finding out

00:41:48.460 exactly why

00:41:49.200 he had

00:41:49.380 to get

00:41:50.520 into the

00:41:50.820 airline

00:41:51.280 population

00:41:52.600 globally

00:41:53.080 and try

00:41:53.700 to weed

00:41:54.040 out people

00:41:54.520 who might

00:41:54.800 do this

00:41:55.160 for those

00:41:55.520 psychological

00:41:55.940 reasons?

00:41:56.420 He can't

00:41:56.820 do it.

00:41:57.360 We like

00:41:58.000 to tell

00:41:58.320 ourselves

00:41:58.660 that.

00:41:59.360 We like

00:42:00.420 to tell

00:42:00.680 ourselves

00:42:00.980 that because

00:42:01.380 we like

00:42:01.860 to think

00:42:02.160 we have

00:42:02.500 some

00:42:02.860 control

00:42:03.320 over

00:42:03.760 stopping

00:42:04.600 the

00:42:04.840 next

00:42:05.080 guy.

00:42:05.660 That one

00:42:06.980 you mentioned,

00:42:07.560 the German

00:42:08.060 pilot who

00:42:08.680 flew that

00:42:09.080 plane into

00:42:09.480 the side

00:42:09.840 of the

00:42:10.040 mountain was

00:42:10.640 just

00:42:10.880 unforgettable

00:42:11.680 and such

00:42:12.960 a mystery

00:42:13.440 to the

00:42:13.880 rest of

00:42:14.160 us

00:42:14.320 civilians.

00:42:14.760 Why didn't

00:42:17.180 they see

00:42:17.480 the signs?

00:42:18.520 You think

00:42:18.860 if you can

00:42:19.200 figure out

00:42:19.640 what are

00:42:20.040 the signs,

00:42:21.000 then you

00:42:21.300 can prevent

00:42:21.700 the next

00:42:22.020 one.

00:42:23.440 In that

00:42:23.880 case,

00:42:24.240 there was

00:42:24.540 a fairly

00:42:26.120 long track

00:42:26.900 record of

00:42:27.580 psychological

00:42:28.100 problems,

00:42:29.100 the German

00:42:29.420 guy.

00:42:31.040 Lufthansa

00:42:31.560 should have

00:42:32.000 known he

00:42:33.160 had a

00:42:33.780 real psychological

00:42:34.920 problem going

00:42:36.020 on with

00:42:36.420 depression.

00:42:38.340 In Zahari's

00:42:39.700 case,

00:42:40.160 no.

00:42:41.360 It's a

00:42:42.020 famous problem

00:42:42.760 in aviation.

00:42:43.360 is you

00:42:44.580 as globally

00:42:45.800 as an

00:42:46.740 airline or

00:42:47.960 as an

00:42:49.520 aviation

00:42:50.160 regulatory

00:42:51.120 agency or

00:42:52.680 as passengers,

00:42:53.680 you really

00:42:54.280 cannot predict

00:42:55.260 who is going

00:42:56.540 to crash

00:42:56.940 your airplane.

00:42:57.900 It's been a

00:42:58.280 problem since

00:42:58.800 the beginning

00:42:59.260 of aviation.

00:43:00.240 It remains

00:43:00.860 a problem

00:43:01.280 today.

00:43:02.200 It's very,

00:43:03.340 very difficult

00:43:03.880 to do if I

00:43:04.760 would say

00:43:05.160 it's impossible.

00:43:06.440 You really

00:43:06.920 can't do it

00:43:07.420 on the basis

00:43:07.860 of flight

00:43:08.300 hours,

00:43:09.160 of licenses,

00:43:10.580 of exams.

00:43:11.620 It's a

00:43:13.600 very stubborn

00:43:14.320 problem.

00:43:14.840 Now,

00:43:14.960 it's very

00:43:15.360 rare that

00:43:15.920 the airline

00:43:17.640 pilots crash

00:43:18.320 airplanes.

00:43:18.900 Very,

00:43:19.300 very rare.

00:43:20.240 But when

00:43:21.100 they do,

00:43:22.160 it's almost

00:43:23.320 always a big

00:43:23.900 surprise.

00:43:25.180 And that's

00:43:25.620 not because

00:43:26.060 people are

00:43:26.480 asleep at

00:43:26.880 the wheel.

00:43:27.780 The reason

00:43:29.300 is that

00:43:30.060 it's just

00:43:31.540 about impossible

00:43:32.220 to predict.

00:43:33.000 So to

00:43:34.460 go into

00:43:35.000 Kuala Lumpur

00:43:35.920 and really

00:43:36.560 go to

00:43:37.440 ground on

00:43:38.120 what his

00:43:39.080 motivations

00:43:39.600 were,

00:43:40.660 I thought

00:43:41.580 at the

00:43:41.860 time was

00:43:42.620 not worth

00:43:43.980 my time.

00:43:44.940 I mean,

00:43:45.120 I was more

00:43:46.500 interested in

00:43:47.400 what was

00:43:48.880 the evidence

00:43:49.480 that existed

00:43:51.380 and still

00:43:51.880 exists to

00:43:52.520 what went

00:43:53.000 wrong.

00:43:53.980 And it

00:43:54.800 was any

00:43:55.360 possibility

00:43:55.980 of a

00:43:56.900 technical

00:43:57.160 failure.

00:43:57.880 And there

00:43:58.300 is no

00:43:58.720 possibility

00:43:59.240 of a

00:43:59.580 technical

00:43:59.780 failure.

00:44:00.420 No

00:44:00.680 conceivable

00:44:01.620 possibility

00:44:02.480 of

00:44:03.040 combinations

00:44:03.700 of

00:44:04.200 technical

00:44:04.500 failures

00:44:04.980 could have

00:44:05.620 caused

00:44:05.900 the

00:44:06.040 airplane

00:44:06.320 to do

00:44:06.720 what it

00:44:07.100 did

00:44:07.460 before it

00:44:08.180 crashed.

00:44:09.020 There's

00:44:09.320 nothing on

00:44:10.020 earth that

00:44:10.880 could explain

00:44:11.740 that.

00:44:12.240 It has to

00:44:12.920 be human

00:44:13.460 intervention.

00:44:14.820 And it's

00:44:15.120 pretty

00:44:15.760 inconceivable

00:44:16.520 that it

00:44:17.260 would be

00:44:17.540 anybody

00:44:17.880 other than

00:44:19.320 Zahari.

00:44:21.160 Let's talk

00:44:22.020 about some

00:44:22.520 of the

00:44:22.760 other theories

00:44:23.440 that are

00:44:23.880 out there.

00:44:25.400 One that

00:44:26.240 was explored

00:44:26.860 by the

00:44:27.360 Netflix

00:44:27.660 documentary

00:44:28.260 was they

00:44:30.200 had a

00:44:30.820 woman

00:44:31.140 I mean

00:44:31.960 we'll go

00:44:32.200 through a

00:44:32.460 few of

00:44:32.700 them.

00:44:33.000 They get

00:44:33.480 progressively

00:44:34.520 outlandish.

00:44:35.340 We'll start

00:44:35.620 with the

00:44:35.880 one that's

00:44:36.740 perhaps the

00:44:37.260 least

00:44:37.420 outlandish.

00:44:38.840 They had

00:44:39.280 a woman

00:44:39.700 who said

00:44:40.240 she was

00:44:40.640 an expert

00:44:41.120 not really

00:44:42.320 she was

00:44:42.720 like a

00:44:43.040 home

00:44:43.380 amateur

00:44:43.840 who had

00:44:45.160 become

00:44:45.580 what she

00:44:46.320 felt was

00:44:46.900 somewhat

00:44:47.100 of an

00:44:47.300 expert

00:44:47.540 in detecting

00:44:48.720 debris

00:44:49.200 in the

00:44:49.720 ocean

00:44:50.040 via

00:44:50.320 satellite

00:44:50.800 images

00:44:51.280 and she

00:44:51.800 felt very

00:44:52.280 strongly

00:44:52.680 that she

00:44:53.460 did find

00:44:54.220 said

00:44:54.980 debris

00:44:55.460 over in

00:44:57.140 what was

00:44:57.860 the other

00:44:58.100 ocean?

00:44:58.400 on the

00:45:01.220 South

00:45:01.460 China Sea

00:45:02.000 which would

00:45:03.340 have been

00:45:03.620 no not

00:45:04.040 in the

00:45:04.220 Indian Ocean

00:45:04.720 she said

00:45:05.260 she found

00:45:05.720 debris

00:45:06.020 floating

00:45:06.440 she's

00:45:07.740 French

00:45:08.160 no the

00:45:09.260 French lady

00:45:09.780 blames us

00:45:10.540 the Americans

00:45:12.060 no there was

00:45:12.960 a civilian

00:45:13.840 woman in

00:45:14.460 this documentary

00:45:15.020 who said

00:45:15.440 I can see

00:45:16.220 via satellite

00:45:16.780 images

00:45:17.280 debris

00:45:18.340 in the

00:45:19.800 South

00:45:20.860 China Sea

00:45:21.400 that is

00:45:22.760 very

00:45:23.240 consistent

00:45:24.060 with

00:45:24.360 airplane

00:45:24.800 debris

00:45:25.220 and the

00:45:26.260 plane

00:45:26.560 went down

00:45:27.300 on its

00:45:28.180 way to

00:45:29.000 Malaysia

00:45:30.060 I mean

00:45:31.000 to China

00:45:31.720 to Beijing

00:45:32.300 just as it

00:45:33.180 was supposed

00:45:34.240 to

00:45:34.560 it didn't

00:45:35.220 make a turn

00:45:35.820 and why

00:45:36.760 don't they

00:45:37.020 just go

00:45:37.420 and search

00:45:38.200 just go

00:45:38.880 and search

00:45:39.300 because

00:45:39.580 you'll find

00:45:40.440 the debris

00:45:40.740 there

00:45:40.980 so what

00:45:41.760 do we

00:45:42.060 is there

00:45:42.520 any chance

00:45:43.000 this thing

00:45:43.340 actually did

00:45:43.860 go down

00:45:44.300 on course

00:45:45.160 well if it

00:45:47.120 did go down

00:45:47.580 of course

00:45:47.880 you'd have

00:45:48.200 to explain

00:45:48.600 the fact

00:45:49.020 that a

00:45:49.340 significant

00:45:49.760 amount

00:45:50.040 of debris

00:45:50.440 washed up

00:45:51.060 in Madagascar

00:45:51.920 right

00:45:52.820 on the other

00:45:53.140 side

00:45:53.300 how do

00:45:55.480 you get

00:45:55.560 there

00:45:55.780 from

00:45:56.080 the

00:45:56.560 South

00:45:56.720 China Sea

00:45:57.140 you don't

00:45:57.520 get there

00:45:57.920 so it's

00:45:58.880 you'd have

00:45:59.840 to go

00:46:00.180 below

00:46:00.940 Singapore

00:46:02.360 and come

00:46:02.880 up to

00:46:03.120 the

00:46:03.220 Malaysian

00:46:03.520 their theory

00:46:04.060 would be

00:46:04.340 that wasn't

00:46:04.900 that wasn't

00:46:05.420 MH370

00:46:06.260 over on the

00:46:07.100 other side

00:46:07.500 on the

00:46:07.800 west side

00:46:08.940 we know

00:46:11.640 it was

00:46:11.940 MH370

00:46:12.700 we know

00:46:13.640 it was

00:46:13.960 MH370

00:46:14.720 some of

00:46:15.500 those things

00:46:15.880 are unmistakably

00:46:17.320 MH370

00:46:18.560 because of

00:46:19.240 serial numbers

00:46:20.020 some don't

00:46:20.960 have serial

00:46:21.440 numbers

00:46:21.760 but we're

00:46:22.680 off of

00:46:23.100 triple

00:46:23.340 sevens

00:46:23.920 unmistakably

00:46:24.760 we'll take

00:46:25.640 an inventory

00:46:26.120 of the

00:46:26.380 number

00:46:26.540 of triple

00:46:26.920 sevens

00:46:27.400 that have

00:46:27.600 crashed

00:46:28.000 in the

00:46:28.980 Indian

00:46:29.240 ocean

00:46:29.560 so you

00:46:30.700 know

00:46:30.820 this

00:46:31.180 the debris

00:46:32.000 that was

00:46:32.340 found

00:46:32.800 was either

00:46:33.820 ambiguous

00:46:34.300 okay

00:46:35.020 some of

00:46:35.420 you really

00:46:35.820 couldn't

00:46:36.080 tell

00:46:36.380 or it

00:46:37.060 had serial

00:46:37.620 numbers

00:46:37.960 that's

00:46:38.640 totally

00:46:38.940 unambiguous

00:46:39.860 that was

00:46:40.360 MH370

00:46:41.080 or it

00:46:42.120 was

00:46:42.500 unambiguously

00:46:43.820 as triple

00:46:44.820 seven

00:46:45.260 without a

00:46:46.200 serial number

00:46:46.760 but it

00:46:47.260 was found

00:46:47.660 in the

00:46:48.420 Indian

00:46:48.640 ocean

00:46:48.960 so forget

00:46:49.700 it

00:46:49.860 okay

00:46:50.040 but could

00:46:50.520 it have

00:46:51.000 been messed

00:46:51.480 with

00:46:51.680 there's a

00:46:52.060 suggestion

00:46:52.480 in the

00:46:53.040 movie

00:46:53.380 that

00:46:54.080 debris

00:46:54.400 found

00:46:54.940 that would

00:46:55.600 be

00:46:55.740 consistent

00:46:56.100 with

00:46:56.420 all this

00:46:57.000 happening

00:46:57.360 over in

00:46:58.000 the west

00:46:58.420 in the

00:46:58.640 south

00:46:58.820 Indian

00:46:59.040 sea

00:46:59.340 in the

00:46:59.600 Indian

00:46:59.820 sea

00:47:00.020 the way

00:47:00.260 you're

00:47:00.520 explaining

00:47:01.060 that might

00:47:02.140 have been

00:47:02.440 dropped

00:47:02.860 there

00:47:03.160 there could

00:47:03.640 have been

00:47:03.940 the

00:47:04.140 Malaysians

00:47:05.040 interfering

00:47:06.220 right

00:47:06.680 that they

00:47:07.120 they intentionally

00:47:07.980 dropped

00:47:08.360 something there

00:47:08.980 or some

00:47:09.440 other actors

00:47:09.980 maybe the

00:47:10.440 Russians

00:47:10.860 to make

00:47:11.640 it look

00:47:12.040 like

00:47:12.440 MH370

00:47:13.420 went down

00:47:14.020 in that

00:47:14.320 ocean

00:47:14.640 but really

00:47:15.280 it didn't

00:47:16.320 it wound up

00:47:16.940 in Kazakhstan

00:47:17.620 or it

00:47:18.920 went down

00:47:19.380 on its

00:47:19.660 way to

00:47:19.920 Beijing

00:47:20.280 over on

00:47:20.660 the east

00:47:21.100 in a

00:47:21.580 different

00:47:21.760 ocean

00:47:22.080 altogether

00:47:22.560 what do

00:47:23.360 you make

00:47:23.480 of that

00:47:23.680 theory

00:47:23.940 conspiratorial

00:47:28.100 fantasy

00:47:28.560 I mean

00:47:29.160 you know

00:47:29.440 I make

00:47:30.000 what I make

00:47:30.960 of it

00:47:31.180 is not

00:47:31.540 total

00:47:32.120 and utter

00:47:32.980 nonsense

00:47:33.760 and it's

00:47:35.100 overly

00:47:35.820 embroidered

00:47:36.980 unnecessarily

00:47:37.760 complicated

00:47:38.620 requiring a

00:47:41.040 level of

00:47:41.480 conspiracy

00:47:41.900 that doesn't

00:47:43.260 exist

00:47:43.900 can exist

00:47:45.180 in a

00:47:45.540 country

00:47:45.780 like

00:47:46.080 Malaysia

00:47:46.560 or any

00:47:46.880 other

00:47:47.040 country

00:47:47.320 for that

00:47:47.660 matter

00:47:47.920 you know

00:47:48.840 what

00:47:49.000 can come

00:47:50.240 out

00:47:50.420 will come

00:47:50.880 out

00:47:51.140 and that's

00:47:51.840 just not

00:47:52.300 that's not

00:47:53.100 where it's at

00:47:53.600 it's just

00:47:53.880 this amateur

00:47:54.780 amateur

00:47:55.500 stuff

00:47:55.960 I mentioned

00:48:04.520 Kazakhstan

00:48:05.060 because there

00:48:05.820 is a

00:48:06.320 man named

00:48:06.860 Jeff Wise

00:48:07.540 who features

00:48:08.060 prominently

00:48:08.620 in this

00:48:10.000 I don't

00:48:10.960 know if we

00:48:11.740 should call it

00:48:12.080 a documentary

00:48:12.600 but this

00:48:13.060 film

00:48:13.360 and he's

00:48:15.020 featured

00:48:15.300 prominently

00:48:15.820 quite a

00:48:16.220 bit

00:48:16.400 he's been

00:48:16.780 all over

00:48:17.060 the news

00:48:17.420 since his

00:48:17.820 plane went

00:48:18.220 down

00:48:18.620 offering

00:48:19.300 different

00:48:19.640 theories

00:48:20.080 and one

00:48:21.120 of his

00:48:21.440 theories

00:48:21.780 is that

00:48:22.540 the plane

00:48:23.480 may have

00:48:25.340 been hijacked

00:48:26.320 potentially

00:48:27.000 by the

00:48:28.140 Russians

00:48:28.560 somebody may

00:48:30.080 have gone

00:48:30.460 down

00:48:31.100 into the

00:48:31.980 belly of

00:48:32.420 the aircraft

00:48:33.280 via a

00:48:34.480 hatch

00:48:34.880 that would

00:48:35.360 have been

00:48:35.620 right in

00:48:35.900 front of

00:48:36.080 the first

00:48:36.380 class

00:48:36.680 department

00:48:37.140 and

00:48:38.480 messed

00:48:39.500 with the

00:48:39.900 signaling

00:48:40.220 such that

00:48:40.760 it would

00:48:40.980 have thrown

00:48:41.540 off

00:48:42.160 the

00:48:43.400 Imarsat

00:48:44.160 data

00:48:44.560 that says

00:48:45.500 pretty

00:48:45.760 definitively

00:48:46.460 it went

00:48:47.260 south

00:48:47.660 over the

00:48:48.300 Indian

00:48:48.520 ocean

00:48:48.820 not north

00:48:49.500 toward Russia

00:48:50.380 towards Kazakhstan

00:48:51.320 here's a little

00:48:52.260 bit of Jeff

00:48:52.780 Wise

00:48:53.120 offering some

00:48:54.760 of some

00:48:55.620 of his

00:48:55.900 theories

00:48:56.140 from the

00:48:56.980 film

00:48:57.140 a modern

00:48:58.740 commercial

00:48:59.260 jetliner

00:49:00.180 is in

00:49:01.340 communication

00:49:02.100 multiple

00:49:02.800 ways

00:49:03.260 with the

00:49:03.660 outside

00:49:03.960 world

00:49:04.280 all of

00:49:05.140 them

00:49:05.320 went

00:49:05.840 dark

00:49:06.120 at the

00:49:06.380 same

00:49:06.540 time

00:49:06.900 why

00:49:08.140 the

00:49:10.380 most

00:49:11.760 obvious

00:49:12.720 answer

00:49:13.180 would be

00:49:14.500 catastrophic

00:49:16.040 failure

00:49:16.520 the plane

00:49:17.040 blew up

00:49:17.620 it impacted

00:49:18.820 the ocean

00:49:19.560 it suffered

00:49:21.000 a fire

00:49:21.840 so intense

00:49:22.580 that it just

00:49:23.000 destroyed all

00:49:23.780 the equipment

00:49:24.220 simultaneously

00:49:24.920 before anyone

00:49:25.560 could issue

00:49:25.920 a mayday

00:49:26.260 call

00:49:26.580 but

00:49:28.640 the plane's

00:49:30.480 debris

00:49:30.800 was still

00:49:31.400 not found

00:49:32.480 underneath

00:49:33.260 the spot

00:49:34.480 where that

00:49:35.020 disruption

00:49:36.020 in communication

00:49:36.720 occurred

00:49:37.360 if it

00:49:39.720 wasn't

00:49:40.240 catastrophic

00:49:40.800 failure

00:49:41.180 what's

00:49:42.160 option

00:49:42.440 two

00:49:42.700 the only

00:49:44.620 really obvious

00:49:45.160 possibility

00:49:45.720 is that

00:49:46.740 somebody

00:49:48.040 on board

00:49:48.680 the plane

00:49:49.200 deliberately

00:49:49.980 turned off

00:49:50.840 its electronic

00:49:51.500 communication

00:49:52.060 signals

00:49:52.580 and if

00:49:53.820 that's the

00:49:54.220 case

00:49:54.440 the question

00:49:54.880 is who

00:49:55.480 so he

00:49:58.320 goes on

00:49:58.740 to say

00:49:59.260 if you

00:50:00.240 want to

00:50:00.460 find links

00:50:00.980 between

00:50:01.300 the Russians

00:50:02.020 and this

00:50:03.240 plane

00:50:03.660 he's not

00:50:04.260 taking it

00:50:04.640 to the

00:50:04.840 pilot

00:50:05.140 he's taking

00:50:06.060 it someplace

00:50:06.380 else

00:50:06.700 there were

00:50:07.820 three Russians

00:50:08.580 on board

00:50:09.280 this plane

00:50:09.940 and

00:50:11.020 one of them

00:50:12.220 could have

00:50:12.500 gotten down

00:50:12.980 into that

00:50:13.400 hatch

00:50:13.680 I mentioned

00:50:14.240 messed with

00:50:15.120 the comms

00:50:16.540 and the

00:50:17.040 other tech

00:50:18.620 that was

00:50:19.180 down there

00:50:19.700 and thrown

00:50:20.760 everybody off

00:50:21.620 perhaps the

00:50:22.140 plane

00:50:22.440 is sitting

00:50:23.680 to this

00:50:24.100 day

00:50:24.360 someplace

00:50:25.080 in

00:50:25.380 Kazakhstan

00:50:25.720 or

00:50:26.320 elsewhere

00:50:27.140 well I

00:50:30.820 happen to

00:50:31.380 know

00:50:31.940 Jeff

00:50:32.280 wise

00:50:32.700 he's

00:50:33.420 a friend

00:50:33.940 of mine

00:50:34.340 let's

00:50:36.660 just say

00:50:36.920 that I

00:50:37.300 have always

00:50:38.420 respectfully

00:50:39.880 and sort

00:50:41.360 of vehemently

00:50:42.520 disagreed

00:50:43.060 with him

00:50:43.480 and I've

00:50:46.060 always told

00:50:46.600 him that

00:50:46.940 you know

00:50:47.320 he

00:50:47.560 has presented

00:50:49.520 his arguments

00:50:50.100 to me

00:50:50.720 at length

00:50:53.320 and I

00:50:55.420 I worry

00:51:00.860 about it

00:51:01.460 frankly

00:51:01.900 so

00:51:03.300 it's

00:51:05.100 it's

00:51:05.800 not in

00:51:07.980 the realm

00:51:08.400 of reality

00:51:10.140 so yeah

00:51:11.840 that's all I

00:51:13.500 can say

00:51:13.860 he's a

00:51:16.140 great guy

00:51:16.680 well the

00:51:19.860 question is

00:51:20.460 it for

00:51:20.960 for what

00:51:21.600 you know

00:51:22.100 who would

00:51:22.840 have had

00:51:23.040 the sophistication

00:51:23.780 to get out

00:51:24.240 get down

00:51:24.660 there and

00:51:25.020 the ability

00:51:25.380 to get down

00:51:25.840 there right

00:51:26.160 in the

00:51:26.320 middle of

00:51:26.620 the other

00:51:27.240 passengers

00:51:27.700 and then

00:51:28.500 have the

00:51:28.760 sophistication

00:51:29.260 to turn

00:51:29.660 off you

00:51:30.220 know

00:51:30.400 communications

00:51:31.160 equipments

00:51:31.780 and throw

00:51:32.600 off the

00:51:32.940 AMARSAT

00:51:33.460 data I

00:51:33.920 mean that

00:51:34.140 is one

00:51:34.600 that is

00:51:35.020 next level

00:51:35.740 sophistication

00:51:37.460 by a potential

00:51:38.500 hijacker

00:51:39.300 and then the

00:51:40.220 hijackers

00:51:40.860 typically when

00:51:41.440 they hijack

00:51:42.100 they want

00:51:43.680 something

00:51:44.120 as a result

00:51:45.180 of their

00:51:45.640 feet

00:51:46.160 and they

00:51:47.200 usually claim

00:51:47.960 credit

00:51:48.300 you know

00:51:49.040 none of

00:51:49.320 that

00:51:49.560 none of

00:51:50.380 that happened

00:51:50.720 here

00:51:50.940 of course

00:51:52.260 you're

00:51:53.140 absolutely

00:51:53.500 right

00:51:53.920 I mean

00:51:54.520 it's

00:51:55.280 that's

00:51:56.360 number one

00:51:57.560 in all of

00:51:58.560 this

00:51:58.720 theorizing

00:51:59.440 that this

00:52:00.020 was a

00:52:00.400 hijack

00:52:00.660 it's not

00:52:01.060 a high

00:52:01.340 it was

00:52:01.600 not a

00:52:01.920 hijacking

00:52:02.420 also

00:52:03.220 that particular

00:52:05.480 theory

00:52:05.940 required

00:52:06.820 a level

00:52:07.560 of sophistication

00:52:08.560 in terms

00:52:09.400 of understanding

00:52:10.060 the handshakes

00:52:11.360 that we were

00:52:11.720 talking about

00:52:12.080 before

00:52:12.460 that even

00:52:14.600 in Marsat

00:52:15.340 didn't have

00:52:15.940 when the

00:52:16.260 airplane went

00:52:16.720 down

00:52:17.060 so how

00:52:17.920 would the

00:52:18.520 functioning

00:52:20.240 of these

00:52:21.420 two

00:52:21.840 forms of

00:52:22.960 audio

00:52:23.380 handshakes

00:52:24.360 and not

00:52:25.680 audio

00:52:25.960 electronic

00:52:26.460 handshakes

00:52:27.220 was not

00:52:30.100 known to

00:52:30.420 really anybody

00:52:31.280 for analysis

00:52:33.580 so if you

00:52:34.040 don't know

00:52:34.460 it in

00:52:35.040 order to

00:52:35.580 analyze it

00:52:36.760 how does

00:52:37.000 somebody else

00:52:37.480 know it

00:52:37.780 in order to

00:52:38.240 hijack an

00:52:38.740 airplane

00:52:38.940 it's the

00:52:39.380 hoax

00:52:39.640 theory

00:52:39.960 right

00:52:40.300 so

00:52:41.000 it's

00:52:42.580 just

00:52:42.780 inconceivable

00:52:44.100 and it

00:52:45.460 delivers a

00:52:46.140 level of

00:52:46.580 expertise

00:52:47.200 into the

00:52:48.640 Russian

00:52:48.900 hands

00:52:49.760 when they

00:52:50.920 can't even

00:52:51.260 keep quiet

00:52:51.920 enough

00:52:52.340 on the

00:52:53.160 front in

00:52:53.640 Ukraine

00:52:54.200 to get

00:52:55.420 off their

00:52:55.720 damn cell

00:52:56.340 phones

00:52:56.780 to keep

00:52:57.280 from getting

00:52:57.660 hit

00:52:58.080 by drones

00:52:59.840 and missiles

00:53:00.400 right

00:53:01.680 spotted

00:53:02.260 there's not

00:53:03.240 a huge

00:53:03.700 level of

00:53:04.200 sophistication

00:53:04.920 going on

00:53:05.460 in Russian

00:53:05.920 culture

00:53:06.500 and science

00:53:08.220 and this

00:53:09.100 would require

00:53:09.620 some huge

00:53:10.480 level of

00:53:11.200 sophistication

00:53:11.860 beyond anything

00:53:12.800 to pull

00:53:14.080 that off

00:53:14.880 no way

00:53:16.360 and for

00:53:17.140 what reason

00:53:18.140 as you say

00:53:18.800 but also

00:53:19.480 no way

00:53:20.400 it's just

00:53:21.540 inconceivable

00:53:22.780 but you know

00:53:24.980 the music

00:53:25.940 there when you

00:53:26.660 played that clip

00:53:27.460 you know the

00:53:28.280 drumming

00:53:28.760 the ominous

00:53:29.480 drumming

00:53:29.800 and all that

00:53:30.220 that helps

00:53:30.800 I guess

00:53:31.860 it builds

00:53:32.180 the drama

00:53:33.500 well here was

00:53:34.640 the biggest

00:53:35.080 shock

00:53:35.720 and to me

00:53:36.240 disappointment

00:53:36.700 of the film

00:53:37.780 they

00:53:38.760 hold

00:53:40.120 in abeyance

00:53:40.960 this French

00:53:41.900 journalist

00:53:42.500 who pops up

00:53:43.580 every once in a while

00:53:44.440 and she's built up

00:53:45.620 as a credible source

00:53:46.480 who's probably

00:53:47.400 got the answer

00:53:48.480 as we spend time

00:53:49.440 with Jeff Wise's

00:53:50.400 theory

00:53:50.700 and with the

00:53:51.580 satellite woman

00:53:52.400 who's analyzing

00:53:53.440 the debris

00:53:54.360 over in the

00:53:55.540 South China Sea

00:53:56.240 and they keep

00:53:57.640 sort of teasing

00:53:58.180 the French

00:53:58.720 journalist

00:53:59.260 as somebody

00:53:59.840 who's going to be

00:54:00.280 the straight

00:54:00.660 shooter

00:54:00.980 who might

00:54:01.480 have real

00:54:01.900 answers for us

00:54:02.740 and then

00:54:03.560 finally

00:54:04.200 they let her

00:54:05.340 tell us

00:54:05.720 what her

00:54:06.040 theory is

00:54:06.580 and her

00:54:07.380 theory is

00:54:08.080 we the

00:54:09.280 Americans

00:54:09.680 did it

00:54:10.160 we downed

00:54:11.580 the plane

00:54:12.200 intentionally

00:54:12.760 because it

00:54:13.780 had some

00:54:14.800 sort of

00:54:15.140 goods in

00:54:15.520 the cargo

00:54:16.120 lithium

00:54:16.800 batteries

00:54:17.560 other things

00:54:18.760 perhaps something

00:54:19.880 relating to

00:54:21.080 tech

00:54:22.100 out of

00:54:22.800 Singapore

00:54:23.080 we don't

00:54:23.540 know

00:54:23.760 that we

00:54:24.980 needed to

00:54:25.340 get rid

00:54:25.720 of

00:54:25.940 and here's

00:54:26.740 a bit

00:54:26.920 of this

00:54:27.280 woman

00:54:27.620 in the

00:54:28.120 big reveal

00:54:28.740 from the

00:54:29.140 one they

00:54:29.400 built up

00:54:29.780 more than

00:54:30.280 anybody

00:54:30.740 on us

00:54:32.280 in our

00:54:32.820 role in

00:54:33.160 it

00:54:33.300 it's

00:54:33.700 sought to

00:54:34.340 so at

00:54:35.740 1 19

00:54:36.300 a.m

00:54:36.660 ma370

00:54:37.860 is

00:54:38.720 requested

00:54:39.460 to

00:54:40.300 change

00:54:40.920 over

00:54:41.240 to the

00:54:41.920 Vietnamese

00:54:42.420 airspace

00:54:43.380 captain

00:54:51.140 captain

00:54:51.480 sahari

00:54:52.100 signs off

00:54:53.280 wave

00:54:53.620 is

00:54:53.880 now

00:54:54.840 infamous

00:54:55.900 goodnight

00:54:56.900 and

00:54:59.400 and this

00:54:59.620 and this is

00:54:59.760 the perfect

00:55:00.340 moment

00:55:01.040 for an

00:55:02.360 interception

00:55:02.960 to take

00:55:03.500 place

00:55:03.960 so it's

00:55:05.940 possible

00:55:06.420 in that

00:55:07.220 moment

00:55:07.660 the two

00:55:09.280 US

00:55:09.940 AWOCs

00:55:10.860 moved into

00:55:11.700 action

00:55:12.140 and

00:55:13.740 and jammed

00:55:15.100 ma370

00:55:16.520 making it

00:55:24.460 disappear

00:55:25.020 from

00:55:25.860 the

00:55:26.480 radar

00:55:26.880 maybe

00:55:27.840 maybe it

00:55:28.160 receives

00:55:28.680 an order

00:55:29.540 from

00:55:30.560 the

00:55:31.120 AWOCs

00:55:31.840 to go

00:55:32.620 and land

00:55:33.460 somewhere

00:55:34.180 nearby

00:55:35.220 when

00:55:36.280 captain

00:55:36.680 sahari

00:55:37.180 receives

00:55:37.760 the order

00:55:38.340 it's

00:55:39.820 possible

00:55:40.260 that he

00:55:41.240 says

00:55:41.560 no

00:55:41.920 he

00:55:44.000 does

00:55:44.380 not

00:55:44.780 accept

00:55:45.560 this

00:55:45.980 order

00:55:46.500 they

00:55:47.360 still

00:55:47.700 need

00:55:47.920 to

00:55:48.100 stop

00:55:48.660 the

00:55:49.120 plane

00:55:49.480 and

00:55:49.840 his

00:55:50.000 precious

00:55:50.320 cargo

00:55:50.740 to

00:55:51.060 arrive

00:55:51.480 Beijing

00:55:52.160 so

00:55:53.900 either

00:55:55.860 through a

00:55:56.760 missile strike

00:55:57.580 or

00:55:58.620 a

00:55:59.180 mid-air

00:55:59.540 collision

00:56:00.140 ma370

00:56:02.040 met

00:56:04.400 its

00:56:04.640 fate

00:56:04.980 the

00:56:08.440 theory

00:56:08.760 there

00:56:09.000 being

00:56:09.440 this

00:56:09.940 is

00:56:10.100 how

00:56:10.360 she

00:56:10.500 says

00:56:10.780 it

00:56:11.000 the

00:56:11.560 cargo

00:56:12.120 they

00:56:12.560 say

00:56:12.820 inside

00:56:14.380 MH370's

00:56:15.780 cargo

00:56:16.040 were

00:56:17.260 2.5

00:56:18.280 tons

00:56:18.520 of

00:56:18.640 electronics

00:56:19.580 including

00:56:20.440 lithium

00:56:21.020 batteries

00:56:21.440 walkie-talkies

00:56:22.080 and

00:56:22.200 accessories

00:56:22.620 that

00:56:23.980 the

00:56:25.520 cargo

00:56:25.780 was

00:56:26.000 loaded

00:56:26.300 without

00:56:26.620 being

00:56:26.920 scanned

00:56:27.520 which

00:56:28.180 caused

00:56:28.500 this

00:56:28.780 journalist

00:56:29.540 Florence

00:56:31.100 de

00:56:31.500 Changé

00:56:32.140 to

00:56:33.160 believe

00:56:33.540 that

00:56:33.840 the

00:56:34.180 cargo

00:56:34.380 contained

00:56:34.800 highly

00:56:35.120 sensitive

00:56:35.600 US

00:56:36.040 technology

00:56:36.840 and

00:56:37.140 these

00:56:37.320 two

00:56:37.640 US

00:56:38.180 AWOC

00:56:38.720 planes

00:56:39.160 which

00:56:39.400 are

00:56:39.500 military

00:56:40.000 planes

00:56:40.840 spotted

00:56:41.920 it

00:56:42.200 and

00:56:43.040 that

00:56:43.240 she

00:56:43.460 says

00:56:43.680 they

00:56:43.900 were

00:56:44.180 also

00:56:44.620 spotted

00:56:45.120 near

00:56:45.860 MH370

00:56:46.800 in the

00:56:47.240 air

00:56:47.460 they

00:56:48.460 asked

00:56:48.720 him

00:56:48.860 to

00:56:49.000 land

00:56:49.320 so

00:56:49.780 they

00:56:49.920 could

00:56:50.060 inspect

00:56:50.340 the

00:56:50.500 cargo

00:56:50.780 he

00:56:51.220 refused

00:56:51.640 to

00:56:51.840 do

00:56:52.000 so

00:56:52.300 and

00:56:52.840 then

00:56:53.080 they

00:56:53.320 shot

00:56:53.720 down

00:56:54.140 MH370

00:56:55.140 over

00:56:55.620 the

00:56:56.220 South

00:56:56.500 China

00:56:57.060 Sea

00:56:57.740 you

00:57:04.980 know

00:57:05.120 conspiracy

00:57:05.840 stuff

00:57:06.540 like that

00:57:06.960 demands

00:57:07.440 belief

00:57:08.600 in the

00:57:09.100 perfection

00:57:10.080 of

00:57:11.100 government

00:57:12.020 agencies

00:57:13.160 also

00:57:13.740 evil

00:57:14.620 intent

00:57:15.120 and

00:57:15.720 desperation

00:57:16.280 it's

00:57:16.580 just

00:57:16.740 nonsense

00:57:19.360 right

00:57:20.400 nonsense

00:57:21.120 and also

00:57:21.720 by the way

00:57:22.360 how do

00:57:23.040 you

00:57:23.140 explain

00:57:23.440 the

00:57:23.580 debris

00:57:23.920 then

00:57:24.620 in

00:57:25.280 the

00:57:25.440 Indian

00:57:25.660 Ocean

00:57:26.080 but

00:57:26.600 fake

00:57:26.920 that's

00:57:27.300 the

00:57:27.400 movie

00:57:27.640 suggests

00:57:27.980 fake

00:57:28.500 because

00:57:28.840 it's

00:57:29.020 fake

00:57:29.220 news

00:57:29.600 yeah

00:57:31.760 don't

00:57:32.060 mention

00:57:32.380 that

00:57:32.820 but

00:57:33.520 it's

00:57:33.960 it's

00:57:34.300 yeah

00:57:34.720 fake

00:57:35.280 news

00:57:35.680 it's

00:57:36.240 it's

00:57:38.980 it's

00:57:39.320 just

00:57:39.540 nonsense

00:57:39.880 obviously

00:57:40.720 and

00:57:41.320 you know

00:57:42.100 if you

00:57:42.360 look at

00:57:42.600 the

00:57:42.720 history

00:57:42.960 of

00:57:43.100 airplane

00:57:43.400 accidents

00:57:43.880 airline

00:57:44.320 accidents

00:57:45.080 rare

00:57:46.580 is the

00:57:47.440 airline

00:57:47.700 accident

00:57:48.120 where

00:57:48.380 somebody

00:57:48.660 doesn't

00:57:48.940 come up

00:57:49.240 with a

00:57:49.880 reason

00:57:50.240 that

00:57:50.580 it

00:57:51.260 was

00:57:51.500 either

00:57:52.020 a

00:57:52.260 bomb

00:57:52.620 or

00:57:54.480 shot

00:57:55.200 down

00:57:55.520 preferably

00:57:56.220 by the

00:57:56.620 American

00:57:56.880 military

00:57:57.420 and

00:57:58.440 I

00:57:59.080 know

00:57:59.340 of

00:57:59.500 only

00:57:59.700 one

00:58:00.060 case

00:58:00.520 where

00:58:01.440 the

00:58:01.680 U.S.

00:58:02.220 military

00:58:02.580 has shot

00:58:03.120 down

00:58:03.340 an

00:58:03.520 airliner

00:58:03.960 and

00:58:04.780 that's

00:58:05.080 the

00:58:05.400 Iranian

00:58:06.060 airbus

00:58:06.900 and

00:58:07.240 the

00:58:07.480 I believe

00:58:08.000 the

00:58:08.540 ship

00:58:10.380 was

00:58:11.100 the

00:58:11.580 Stark

00:58:12.120 I believe

00:58:13.020 mistook

00:58:13.980 it

00:58:14.180 for

00:58:14.920 an

00:58:15.500 Iranian

00:58:15.880 war

00:58:17.080 plane

00:58:17.740 coming

00:58:18.100 at it

00:58:18.440 and shot

00:58:18.840 it down

00:58:19.180 and full

00:58:19.480 of

00:58:19.600 passengers

00:58:20.020 that

00:58:22.420 was

00:58:22.880 a

00:58:23.160 truly

00:58:23.760 horrendous

00:58:25.140 mistake

00:58:25.660 and

00:58:26.420 it

00:58:26.540 was

00:58:26.720 and

00:58:27.240 but

00:58:27.720 typically

00:58:28.360 how long

00:58:29.840 did it

00:58:30.040 take for

00:58:30.380 that to

00:58:30.640 get out

00:58:31.040 a few

00:58:32.340 hours

00:58:32.800 you don't

00:58:34.740 keep secrets

00:58:35.480 like that

00:58:36.000 in the

00:58:36.720 U.S.

00:58:37.240 military

00:58:37.660 the U.S.

00:58:38.220 military

00:58:38.480 leaks like

00:58:39.220 a sieve

00:58:39.940 so

00:58:40.720 no

00:58:41.660 that didn't

00:58:42.360 happen

00:58:42.820 yes

00:58:43.700 every time

00:58:44.580 and not

00:58:45.000 every time

00:58:45.440 but many

00:58:45.880 times when

00:58:46.380 airplanes go

00:58:46.920 down

00:58:47.320 people

00:58:48.020 come out

00:58:48.360 of the

00:58:48.540 woodwork

00:58:48.860 to say

00:58:49.240 it was

00:58:49.800 a missile

00:58:50.260 it was

00:58:50.860 a bomb

00:58:51.420 you know

00:58:52.120 and it

00:58:52.840 sometimes

00:58:53.840 is

00:58:54.420 but very

00:58:55.400 rarely

00:58:55.720 I mean

00:58:56.100 we know

00:58:56.480 the Russians

00:58:56.880 shot down

00:58:57.460 the Korean

00:58:58.440 airlines

00:58:58.940 I believe

00:58:59.920 747

00:59:00.500 that strayed

00:59:01.740 over their

00:59:02.240 territory

00:59:02.900 way back

00:59:03.580 when

00:59:03.860 the closing

00:59:04.800 days

00:59:05.200 of the

00:59:06.140 83

00:59:06.620 of the

00:59:07.720 Cold War

00:59:08.720 well

00:59:09.720 there was

00:59:10.000 one more

00:59:10.360 there was

00:59:11.900 there was

00:59:12.380 a Russian

00:59:13.640 shot down

00:59:14.300 MH17

00:59:15.760 not long

00:59:17.360 after

00:59:18.400 was it

00:59:19.300 after

00:59:19.580 this

00:59:19.900 one

00:59:20.000 absolutely

00:59:20.660 that too

00:59:21.500 but again

00:59:22.880 it wasn't

00:59:24.060 any big

00:59:24.700 mystery

00:59:25.020 about what

00:59:25.460 happened

00:59:25.780 there

00:59:26.020 it's like

00:59:26.340 you don't

00:59:26.940 keep secrets

00:59:27.560 like that

00:59:28.160 and the

00:59:28.900 Russians

00:59:29.080 say we

00:59:29.440 didn't do

00:59:29.880 it

00:59:30.000 they

00:59:30.120 didn't

00:59:31.200 do

00:59:31.360 it

00:59:31.460 we

00:59:31.540 did

00:59:31.720 whatever

00:59:32.060 you know

00:59:32.840 yeah

00:59:33.340 you shot

00:59:33.700 it down

00:59:34.160 and it

00:59:35.060 was a

00:59:35.320 mistake

00:59:35.800 almost

00:59:36.220 certainly

00:59:36.600 was a

00:59:36.920 mistake

00:59:37.340 in this

00:59:37.880 case

00:59:38.420 in

00:59:38.640 Ukraine

00:59:39.020 so

00:59:40.560 you know

00:59:40.900 they didn't

00:59:41.460 intend

00:59:41.860 to shoot

00:59:42.300 it down

00:59:42.760 so to

00:59:43.680 have

00:59:43.920 intentional

00:59:44.500 shoot

00:59:44.840 down

00:59:45.220 of this

00:59:46.020 Malaysian

00:59:47.360 flight

00:59:47.680 no

00:59:48.420 sorry

00:59:49.200 I know

00:59:50.180 because it

00:59:50.580 had

00:59:50.720 lithium

00:59:51.280 batteries

00:59:51.760 on it

00:59:52.200 we didn't

00:59:52.580 want the

00:59:52.840 Chinese

00:59:53.120 to get

00:59:53.360 the lithium

00:59:53.720 batteries

00:59:54.140 so we

00:59:54.580 killed

00:59:54.900 239

00:59:55.760 civilians

00:59:56.300 doesn't

00:59:57.060 really

00:59:57.240 sound

00:59:57.500 like us

00:59:57.900 no it

00:59:59.960 doesn't

01:00:00.240 it's

01:00:00.820 completely

01:00:01.780 unrealistic

01:00:02.300 I think

01:00:03.240 she's

01:00:03.580 I don't

01:00:04.700 know what

01:00:05.160 motivates

01:00:05.640 her

01:00:05.900 I think

01:00:06.280 she probably

01:00:06.640 believes

01:00:06.980 what she

01:00:07.260 says

01:00:07.640 most of

01:00:08.680 these

01:00:08.780 people

01:00:09.040 do

01:00:09.320 you know

01:00:10.140 that's

01:00:10.400 that's

01:00:10.660 the

01:00:10.820 fever

01:00:11.160 you know

01:00:11.960 you get

01:00:12.200 into that

01:00:12.600 you get

01:00:12.860 that fever

01:00:13.300 you start

01:00:13.660 believing it

01:00:14.180 and that's

01:00:14.640 the fever

01:00:15.520 the rabbit

01:00:15.980 hole

01:00:16.260 thank god

01:00:18.260 I'm not

01:00:18.600 in that

01:00:18.900 category

01:00:19.400 I frankly

01:00:20.680 haven't thought

01:00:21.160 about this

01:00:21.660 flight

01:00:21.980 you know

01:00:22.440 for a few

01:00:23.020 years

01:00:23.380 well the

01:00:24.340 article

01:00:24.580 is spectacular

01:00:25.680 so walk

01:00:27.220 us through

01:00:27.560 what

01:00:27.860 happened

01:00:29.420 with the

01:00:29.800 investigation

01:00:30.260 why

01:00:30.780 you know

01:00:31.680 you had

01:00:32.100 the one

01:00:32.500 guy

01:00:32.900 he was

01:00:34.020 featured in

01:00:34.360 the film

01:00:34.660 as well

01:00:35.020 who was

01:00:35.940 out there

01:00:36.340 finding all

01:00:36.820 the debris

01:00:37.240 he had

01:00:37.960 asked

01:00:38.360 oceanographers

01:00:39.200 like if

01:00:39.920 a plane

01:00:40.200 went down

01:00:40.780 in the

01:00:41.460 Indian

01:00:41.700 ocean

01:00:42.080 tell me

01:00:43.060 about the

01:00:43.280 currents

01:00:43.560 where would

01:00:43.900 the debris

01:00:44.200 wash up

01:00:44.820 and the guy

01:00:45.440 then went

01:00:45.860 to those

01:00:46.140 places

01:00:46.480 and sure

01:00:46.860 enough

01:00:47.020 he started

01:00:47.300 finding

01:00:47.660 debris

01:00:48.040 which as

01:00:49.120 you point

01:00:49.380 out

01:00:49.580 some had

01:00:50.040 serial numbers

01:00:50.560 some didn't

01:00:51.280 there were

01:00:51.880 questions about

01:00:52.440 whether he

01:00:52.920 was plopping

01:00:53.920 the stuff

01:00:54.280 on the

01:00:54.500 beach right

01:00:54.920 before he

01:00:55.320 miraculously

01:00:55.840 found it

01:00:56.380 with press

01:00:57.280 in tow

01:00:58.000 that's how

01:00:58.380 the film

01:00:58.780 portrays

01:00:59.720 him

01:01:00.020 oh really

01:01:01.540 yeah

01:01:02.440 Gibson

01:01:02.800 yeah

01:01:03.220 do you know

01:01:04.500 him

01:01:04.680 sure

01:01:05.200 yeah

01:01:05.700 I think

01:01:06.180 you may

01:01:06.440 have mentioned

01:01:06.720 him in

01:01:06.940 your article

01:01:07.300 that's really

01:01:08.680 unfair

01:01:09.180 you know

01:01:10.660 Blaine is a

01:01:12.520 very complicated

01:01:13.400 guy

01:01:14.000 and you

01:01:15.460 know

01:01:15.600 the idea

01:01:16.680 that he

01:01:17.240 would

01:01:17.600 manufacture

01:01:18.580 this stuff

01:01:19.800 in order to

01:01:21.040 gain publicity

01:01:21.700 for himself

01:01:22.520 is ridiculous

01:01:23.840 I know that

01:01:24.460 from deep

01:01:25.480 experience

01:01:26.080 with him

01:01:26.620 he's

01:01:28.520 complicated

01:01:29.320 and

01:01:30.360 he

01:01:31.320 is

01:01:32.180 obsessive

01:01:32.940 in life

01:01:33.980 not just

01:01:35.280 with MH370

01:01:36.500 he goes

01:01:37.220 from one

01:01:37.740 obsession

01:01:38.440 to the

01:01:38.780 other

01:01:39.020 he's

01:01:39.580 an

01:01:39.740 adventurer

01:01:40.340 he's

01:01:41.080 a world

01:01:41.540 traveler

01:01:42.300 I think

01:01:42.720 he's

01:01:42.980 gone

01:01:43.260 to

01:01:43.420 180

01:01:43.900 countries

01:01:44.480 or

01:01:44.680 190

01:01:45.220 countries

01:01:45.840 and

01:01:46.100 that's

01:01:46.740 his

01:01:46.880 goal

01:01:47.100 in

01:01:47.280 life

01:01:47.580 he's

01:01:50.340 complicated

01:01:50.980 but

01:01:51.900 he's

01:01:52.180 not a

01:01:52.600 he's

01:01:53.900 not a

01:01:54.240 cynic

01:01:54.600 in fact

01:01:54.960 he should

01:01:55.960 be more

01:01:56.340 cynical

01:01:56.700 more

01:01:57.600 doubting

01:01:58.200 so

01:01:59.400 if the

01:02:00.280 press

01:02:00.520 is following

01:02:01.080 him

01:02:01.400 which

01:02:02.200 I

01:02:02.400 didn't

01:02:02.660 know

01:02:03.080 but

01:02:03.860 I

01:02:04.960 don't

01:02:05.140 doubt

01:02:05.440 that

01:02:05.660 he

01:02:06.060 showed

01:02:06.340 up

01:02:06.500 with

01:02:06.640 some

01:02:06.860 press

01:02:07.200 in

01:02:07.580 tow

01:02:07.840 but

01:02:08.540 the

01:02:08.680 idea

01:02:08.940 that

01:02:09.320 would

01:02:09.580 be

01:02:09.740 his

01:02:09.880 motivation

01:02:10.400 is

01:02:10.940 wrong

01:02:11.260 it's

01:02:12.860 unfair

01:02:13.160 to him

01:02:13.580 as a

01:02:14.280 person

01:02:14.620 now

01:02:15.360 what

01:02:15.580 he did

01:02:16.220 is

01:02:17.080 I

01:02:17.580 think

01:02:17.820 it

01:02:18.760 is

01:02:19.160 much

01:02:19.420 less

01:02:19.760 significant

01:02:20.580 than

01:02:25.360 what

01:02:25.480 he

01:02:25.620 thinks

01:02:27.160 the

01:02:27.900 finding

01:02:28.180 of

01:02:28.340 that

01:02:28.800 debris

01:02:29.140 other

01:02:30.100 people

01:02:30.340 the

01:02:30.500 first

01:02:30.780 debris

01:02:31.200 that

01:02:31.360 was

01:02:31.480 found

01:02:31.740 was

01:02:31.880 not

01:02:32.060 found

01:02:32.280 by

01:02:32.460 him

01:02:32.620 it

01:02:32.700 was

01:02:32.780 found

01:02:32.980 on

01:02:33.140 the

01:02:33.800 island

01:02:34.020 of

01:02:34.200 the

01:02:34.400 French

01:02:34.620 island

01:02:34.800 of

01:02:34.900 Réunion

01:02:35.200 by a

01:02:37.020 beach

01:02:37.640 cleaning

01:02:38.580 crew

01:02:39.080 and that

01:02:39.980 had a

01:02:40.380 serial number

01:02:40.900 on the

01:02:41.200 flapper

01:02:41.540 on

01:02:41.860 and was

01:02:42.460 off

01:02:42.660 that

01:02:42.860 airplane

01:02:43.240 so

01:02:44.700 and

01:02:45.240 that's

01:02:45.540 the

01:02:45.680 debris

01:02:47.040 that was

01:02:47.400 analyzed

01:02:47.900 by the

01:02:48.340 French

01:02:48.680 and

01:02:48.900 the

01:02:49.320 American

01:02:49.860 NTSB

01:02:50.460 got

01:02:50.680 involved

01:02:51.120 in

01:02:51.580 north

01:02:52.360 of

01:02:52.520 Paris

01:02:52.880 at

01:02:53.520 the

01:02:53.640 French

01:02:54.120 laboratory

01:02:54.540 and

01:02:54.840 that's

01:02:55.740 a

01:02:55.980 serious

01:02:57.820 piece

01:02:58.140 of

01:02:58.300 debris

01:02:59.140 evidence

01:02:59.520 and it

01:02:59.820 was

01:02:59.920 not

01:03:00.080 Blaine

01:03:00.280 Gibson

01:03:00.540 who

01:03:00.740 found

01:03:00.940 it

01:03:01.160 Blaine

01:03:02.680 Gibson

01:03:02.960 did

01:03:03.240 find

01:03:03.660 debris

01:03:04.540 that

01:03:04.780 is

01:03:04.960 either

01:03:05.440 certainly

01:03:06.380 assignable

01:03:06.980 to

01:03:07.260 MH370

01:03:08.040 or

01:03:08.620 likely

01:03:09.040 to

01:03:09.520 be

01:03:09.760 MH370

01:03:10.540 along

01:03:11.060 with

01:03:11.260 a lot

01:03:11.440 of

01:03:11.540 other

01:03:11.740 debris

01:03:12.040 that

01:03:12.280 turned

01:03:12.520 out

01:03:12.660 to be

01:03:12.880 a

01:03:13.080 fishing

01:03:13.300 boat

01:03:13.700 caught

01:03:14.220 on

01:03:14.380 fire

01:03:14.700 that

01:03:15.120 kind

01:03:15.280 of

01:03:15.360 stuff

01:03:15.620 and

01:03:16.100 he

01:03:16.280 never

01:03:17.020 claimed

01:03:17.520 to

01:03:18.160 know

01:03:18.560 the

01:03:18.760 difference

01:03:19.140 really

01:03:19.540 so

01:03:20.240 he

01:03:20.620 I

01:03:22.420 like

01:03:22.960 him

01:03:23.120 a lot

01:03:23.480 actually

01:03:23.920 I

01:03:24.860 I

01:03:25.720 there's

01:03:27.920 room

01:03:28.640 in this

01:03:28.920 world

01:03:29.160 for

01:03:29.400 all

01:03:29.740 kinds

01:03:29.980 of

01:03:30.100 eccentric

01:03:30.420 people

01:03:30.880 he's

01:03:31.980 one

01:03:32.160 of

01:03:32.260 them

01:03:32.580 what

01:03:34.480 happened

01:03:35.480 to the

01:03:35.880 rest

01:03:36.200 of

01:03:36.740 the

01:03:37.360 debris

01:03:37.680 that's

01:03:38.240 one of

01:03:38.440 the

01:03:38.540 questions

01:03:38.900 so many

01:03:39.320 people

01:03:39.580 are

01:03:39.740 asking

01:03:40.060 and

01:03:40.360 why

01:03:40.640 they

01:03:40.840 spent

01:03:41.060 three

01:03:41.320 years

01:03:41.660 in the

01:03:42.020 Indian

01:03:42.260 ocean

01:03:42.560 looking

01:03:42.960 for

01:03:43.480 something

01:03:44.980 luggage

01:03:46.140 human

01:03:47.100 remains

01:03:47.660 the

01:03:48.460 rest

01:03:48.740 of

01:03:48.840 the

01:03:48.960 plane

01:03:49.380 God

01:03:50.140 willing

01:03:50.920 the

01:03:51.160 black

01:03:51.840 box

01:03:52.200 recorder

01:03:52.740 you

01:03:52.940 know

01:03:53.060 all

01:03:53.300 that

01:03:53.580 stuff

01:03:54.020 it's

01:03:55.620 hard

01:03:55.980 for

01:03:56.140 some

01:03:56.320 people

01:03:56.580 to

01:03:56.760 wrap

01:03:56.940 their

01:03:57.100 arms

01:03:57.420 around

01:03:57.680 the

01:03:57.860 fact

01:03:58.100 that

01:03:58.400 it's

01:03:59.220 all

01:03:59.440 gone

01:03:59.900 we

01:04:00.280 only

01:04:00.560 have

01:04:00.860 little

01:04:01.140 pieces

01:04:01.700 like

01:04:02.140 where's

01:04:02.780 the

01:04:03.500 main

01:04:03.980 debris

01:04:04.600 we

01:04:06.100 know

01:04:06.300 the

01:04:06.420 answer

01:04:06.660 to

01:04:06.820 that

01:04:06.980 is

01:04:07.120 it's

01:04:07.460 at

01:04:07.620 the

01:04:07.780 bottom

01:04:08.040 of

01:04:08.220 the

01:04:08.320 ocean

01:04:08.600 probably

01:04:10.020 in

01:04:10.560 some

01:04:10.780 deep

01:04:11.060 canyon

01:04:11.460 it's

01:04:11.640 very

01:04:11.840 deep

01:04:12.120 ocean

01:04:12.380 there

01:04:12.620 that

01:04:13.600 has

01:04:13.900 been

01:04:14.100 searched

01:04:14.560 at

01:04:15.100 least

01:04:15.380 once

01:04:15.720 maybe

01:04:15.940 twice

01:04:16.380 and

01:04:16.640 missed

01:04:17.000 because

01:04:17.760 searching

01:04:18.180 of

01:04:18.360 the

01:04:18.480 deep

01:04:19.120 ocean

01:04:19.400 that

01:04:19.920 ocean

01:04:20.260 there

01:04:20.600 where

01:04:20.940 it

01:04:21.060 went

01:04:21.240 down

01:04:21.640 then

01:04:21.900 first of

01:04:22.520 all

01:04:22.560 it's

01:04:22.620 a vast

01:04:23.040 area

01:04:23.380 as you

01:04:23.640 said

01:04:23.940 it

01:04:24.920 also

01:04:25.160 hadn't

01:04:25.500 even

01:04:25.720 been

01:04:25.940 mapped

01:04:26.380 essentially

01:04:26.880 at least

01:04:27.780 in a

01:04:28.300 non

01:04:28.760 classified

01:04:29.360 way

01:04:29.920 so

01:04:31.240 it's

01:04:34.320 lying at

01:04:34.920 the bottom

01:04:35.200 of the

01:04:35.400 ocean

01:04:35.620 in pieces

01:04:36.260 because

01:04:37.240 we also

01:04:37.640 know

01:04:37.880 that it

01:04:38.180 didn't

01:04:38.420 hit

01:04:38.660 it

01:04:38.860 was

01:04:39.060 this

01:04:39.260 was

01:04:39.400 not

01:04:39.560 a

01:04:39.720 water

01:04:40.040 landing

01:04:40.460 that

01:04:40.700 occurred

01:04:41.140 right

01:04:41.800 this

01:04:42.620 high

01:04:43.440 energy

01:04:43.900 impact

01:04:45.880 and

01:04:46.920 the

01:04:47.280 airplanes

01:04:47.640 shattered

01:04:48.180 as

01:04:49.160 airplanes

01:04:49.560 do

01:04:49.900 if

01:04:50.060 they

01:04:50.160 hit

01:04:50.280 the

01:04:50.380 water

01:04:50.600 at

01:04:50.740 high

01:04:50.920 speed

01:04:51.300 so

01:04:51.940 it's

01:04:52.200 little

01:04:52.560 pieces

01:04:53.000 probably

01:04:53.620 the

01:04:53.820 most

01:04:54.060 intact

01:04:54.520 pieces

01:04:54.940 are

01:04:55.160 parts

01:04:55.460 of

01:04:55.580 the

01:04:55.700 engines

01:04:56.060 but

01:04:56.860 try

01:04:57.440 to

01:04:57.600 find

01:04:57.920 a

01:04:58.620 couple

01:04:58.860 of

01:04:59.220 medium

01:04:59.800 big

01:05:01.240 engines

01:05:01.680 big jet

01:05:02.140 engines

01:05:02.340 not that

01:05:02.880 big

01:05:03.180 compared

01:05:04.020 to the

01:05:04.300 size

01:05:04.500 of

01:05:04.620 the

01:05:04.700 ocean

01:05:04.900 and

01:05:05.220 the

01:05:05.360 depth

01:05:05.580 of

01:05:05.720 the

01:05:05.820 ocean

01:05:06.040 and

01:05:06.500 the

01:05:06.640 irregularity

01:05:07.500 of

01:05:07.640 the

01:05:08.220 ocean

01:05:09.640 in

01:05:09.940 that

01:05:10.120 part

01:05:10.340 of

01:05:10.440 the

01:05:10.600 world

01:05:11.480 it's

01:05:11.760 not

01:05:12.620 ocean

01:05:13.100 it's

01:05:13.340 cut

01:05:13.740 by

01:05:14.000 canyons

01:05:14.820 and

01:05:15.000 mountains

01:05:15.400 and

01:05:15.680 you can

01:05:16.360 drag

01:05:16.700 devices

01:05:17.460 across

01:05:17.880 it

01:05:18.100 and

01:05:18.400 you'll

01:05:19.060 easily

01:05:19.560 miss

01:05:19.940 things

01:05:20.240 down

01:05:20.500 there

01:05:20.680 the

01:05:20.880 size

01:05:21.120 of

01:05:21.280 skyscrapers

01:05:22.080 so

01:05:22.700 it's

01:05:23.840 down

01:05:24.120 there

01:05:24.340 somewhere

01:05:24.740 the

01:05:25.180 question

01:05:25.500 is

01:05:25.920 why

01:05:27.020 and I

01:05:27.460 came to

01:05:27.800 this

01:05:28.040 very

01:05:28.540 early

01:05:28.820 on

01:05:29.080 like

01:05:29.300 why

01:05:29.820 are

01:05:29.960 they

01:05:30.060 doing

01:05:30.360 this

01:05:30.600 why

01:05:30.820 it

01:05:31.180 was

01:05:31.320 ongoing

01:05:31.760 when

01:05:32.000 I

01:05:32.100 the

01:05:32.240 search

01:05:32.460 was

01:05:32.620 ongoing

01:05:32.880 when

01:05:33.120 I

01:05:33.280 was

01:05:33.460 writing

01:05:34.440 the

01:05:34.620 piece

01:05:34.840 basically

01:05:35.200 and I

01:05:36.080 said

01:05:36.240 to

01:05:36.360 many

01:05:36.500 people

01:05:36.760 why

01:05:36.980 are

01:05:37.020 you

01:05:42.620 the

01:05:43.760 black

01:05:44.120 box

01:05:44.400 is

01:05:44.540 not

01:05:44.720 going

01:05:44.860 to

01:05:44.900 tell

01:05:45.060 you

01:05:45.160 anything

01:05:45.360 you

01:05:45.520 don't

01:05:45.700 already

01:05:45.940 know

01:05:46.360 the

01:05:47.300 cockpit

01:05:48.800 voice

01:05:49.140 recorder

01:05:49.520 is a

01:05:49.860 two

01:05:50.020 hour

01:05:50.240 loop

01:05:50.540 and

01:05:50.720 so

01:05:50.900 you

01:05:51.300 hear

01:05:51.540 the

01:05:51.800 cockpit

01:05:53.060 and

01:05:53.500 that's

01:05:53.900 the

01:05:54.020 guy

01:05:54.200 reciting

01:05:54.900 his

01:05:55.200 apologies

01:05:56.060 to the

01:05:56.540 cockpit

01:05:56.760 voice

01:05:57.100 recorder

01:05:57.440 it's

01:05:57.660 almost

01:05:57.840 certainly

01:05:58.080 not

01:05:58.440 and

01:05:59.600 the

01:06:00.580 system

01:06:01.060 recordings

01:06:02.980 of the

01:06:03.960 flight

01:06:04.140 data

01:06:04.400 recorder

01:06:04.820 is

01:06:05.520 not

01:06:05.740 going

01:06:05.860 to

01:06:05.940 tell

01:06:06.060 you

01:06:06.160 really

01:06:06.380 very

01:06:06.900 much

01:06:07.180 of

01:06:07.320 interest

01:06:07.620 it'll

01:06:07.820 tell

01:06:07.960 you

01:06:08.060 which

01:06:08.220 engine

01:06:08.460 quit

01:06:08.840 first

01:06:09.640 which

01:06:10.380 second

01:06:11.040 some

01:06:11.720 stuff

01:06:12.000 about

01:06:12.220 the

01:06:12.380 fuel

01:06:12.660 some

01:06:12.960 stuff

01:06:13.180 about

01:06:13.440 the

01:06:13.660 final

01:06:14.360 speeds

01:06:14.880 that's

01:06:16.380 a

01:06:16.500 longer

01:06:16.720 loop

01:06:17.160 but

01:06:17.700 it

01:06:19.740 really

01:06:20.160 wouldn't

01:06:20.380 say

01:06:20.600 anything

01:06:20.980 we

01:06:21.160 don't

01:06:21.380 already

01:06:21.780 know

01:06:22.140 so

01:06:22.720 why

01:06:23.020 are you

01:06:23.260 spending

01:06:23.560 all

01:06:23.900 this

01:06:24.100 effort

01:06:24.440 all

01:06:25.360 this

01:06:25.620 money

01:06:25.920 to

01:06:26.980 drag

01:06:27.860 the

01:06:28.080 ocean

01:06:28.420 in

01:06:29.060 the

01:06:29.180 hope

01:06:29.340 of

01:06:29.500 finding

01:06:29.800 this

01:06:30.040 thing

01:06:30.300 and

01:06:31.680 my

01:06:32.160 impression

01:06:32.620 at

01:06:32.860 the

01:06:32.960 time

01:06:33.240 was

01:06:33.520 if

01:06:34.040 you

01:06:34.160 find

01:06:34.500 it

01:06:34.680 so

01:06:35.020 what

01:06:35.440 and

01:06:36.620 I

01:06:36.880 think

01:06:37.060 that

01:06:37.280 became

01:06:37.880 the

01:06:38.200 overall

01:06:38.680 conclusion

01:06:39.600 it

01:06:40.980 really

01:06:41.340 didn't

01:06:41.640 matter

01:06:41.960 to

01:06:42.160 find

01:06:42.400 it

01:06:42.540 enough

01:06:42.880 is

01:06:43.080 enough

01:06:43.500 it

01:06:44.000 was

01:06:44.140 driven

01:06:44.440 as

01:06:44.780 many

01:06:45.460 in

01:06:45.740 many

01:06:46.000 cases

01:06:46.440 driven

01:06:47.060 by

01:06:47.400 political

01:06:48.540 pressures

01:06:49.020 and

01:06:50.560 the

01:06:50.980 families

01:06:51.660 of

01:06:51.960 the

01:06:52.100 dead

01:06:52.380 now

01:06:52.980 that's

01:06:53.620 a

01:06:53.860 legitimate

01:06:54.220 thing

01:06:54.700 people

01:06:55.380 don't

01:06:55.740 want

01:06:56.000 to

01:06:56.140 walk

01:06:56.760 away

01:06:57.000 from

01:06:57.220 their

01:06:57.480 dead

01:06:58.220 loved

01:06:59.260 ones

01:06:59.680 and

01:07:00.240 say

01:07:00.400 oh

01:07:00.600 well

01:07:00.860 we'll

01:07:01.500 never

01:07:01.640 find

01:07:01.920 them

01:07:02.060 so

01:07:02.420 there's

01:07:02.620 a

01:07:02.740 huge

01:07:03.040 amount

01:07:03.640 of

01:07:03.840 political

01:07:04.200 pressure

01:07:04.560 to

01:07:05.020 be

01:07:05.220 compassionate

01:07:05.820 and I

01:07:06.740 understand

01:07:07.100 that

01:07:07.360 completely

01:07:07.780 but

01:07:08.700 it

01:07:09.240 from

01:07:09.720 a

01:07:09.920 logical

01:07:10.320 point

01:07:10.620 of

01:07:10.700 view

01:07:10.820 it

01:07:12.060 didn't

01:07:12.240 make

01:07:12.400 any

01:07:12.640 sense

01:07:13.000 and

01:07:13.580 they

01:07:13.740 finally

01:07:13.960 said

01:07:14.320 okay

01:07:14.540 enough

01:07:15.100 is

01:07:15.280 enough

01:07:15.640 do you

01:07:18.660 think

01:07:19.060 that

01:07:19.300 there's

01:07:19.820 reason

01:07:22.160 to believe

01:07:22.660 that

01:07:22.980 he

01:07:23.820 downed

01:07:24.300 the

01:07:24.440 plane

01:07:24.800 there

01:07:25.420 knowing

01:07:26.360 that

01:07:26.860 it

01:07:26.960 would

01:07:27.100 be

01:07:27.400 impossible

01:07:28.220 to

01:07:28.560 retrieve

01:07:29.020 the

01:07:29.780 remnants

01:07:30.100 I

01:07:32.660 think

01:07:33.380 so

01:07:33.820 impossible

01:07:35.580 to

01:07:35.760 retrieve

01:07:36.000 the

01:07:36.140 remnants

01:07:36.320 at

01:07:36.480 least

01:07:36.660 put a

01:07:37.200 big

01:07:37.480 hurt

01:07:38.040 on

01:07:38.280 the

01:07:38.420 search

01:07:38.740 but

01:07:39.740 I

01:07:39.980 don't

01:07:40.100 know

01:07:40.260 how

01:07:40.420 much

01:07:40.620 he

01:07:40.760 knew

01:07:41.000 about

01:07:41.480 the

01:07:41.980 sub

01:07:42.360 nobody

01:07:42.960 knew

01:07:43.300 that

01:07:43.680 much

01:07:43.960 about

01:07:44.240 the

01:07:44.540 subsurface

01:07:45.500 ocean

01:07:46.260 in that

01:07:47.520 place

01:07:48.000 and he

01:07:49.000 probably

01:07:49.180 didn't know

01:07:49.500 exactly

01:07:49.960 where he

01:07:50.320 was going

01:07:50.600 to

01:07:50.740 down

01:07:51.040 it

01:07:51.220 the

01:07:51.480 airplane

01:07:51.820 we

01:07:52.380 know

01:07:52.600 pretty

01:07:52.880 surely

01:07:53.360 it

01:07:53.600 went

01:07:54.320 down

01:07:54.580 because

01:07:54.820 it

01:07:54.980 ran

01:07:55.160 out

01:07:55.320 of

01:07:55.460 gas

01:07:55.900 one

01:07:57.120 engine

01:07:57.400 went

01:07:57.600 first

01:07:58.000 the

01:07:58.580 other

01:07:58.760 engine

01:07:59.000 went

01:07:59.240 second

01:07:59.580 and

01:08:00.220 then

01:08:00.440 the

01:08:00.860 APU

01:08:02.620 little

01:08:02.960 jet

01:08:03.360 engine

01:08:03.620 in

01:08:03.780 the

01:08:03.800 back

01:08:04.040 cut

01:08:04.280 in

01:08:04.520 cut

01:08:04.740 out

01:08:04.960 if

01:08:06.320 that

01:08:06.480 was

01:08:06.660 all

01:08:06.940 sort

01:08:07.560 of

01:08:07.720 you

01:08:08.540 could

01:08:08.700 tell

01:08:08.980 from

01:08:09.480 the

01:08:09.800 satellite

01:08:10.860 handshakes

01:08:12.000 what

01:08:12.900 was going

01:08:13.320 on in

01:08:13.720 an

01:08:13.900 approximate

01:08:14.320 way

01:08:14.800 but

01:08:15.760 he

01:08:16.040 wouldn't

01:08:16.260 have

01:08:16.380 known

01:08:16.620 that

01:08:16.800 in

01:08:16.940 advance

01:08:17.480 and

01:08:18.000 the

01:08:18.140 simulation

01:08:18.580 wouldn't

01:08:19.280 have

01:08:19.440 told

01:08:19.640 him

01:08:19.780 that

01:08:19.920 wouldn't

01:08:20.180 simulate

01:08:20.520 that

01:08:20.740 to

01:08:20.880 that

01:08:21.060 degree

01:08:21.420 so

01:08:22.080 you

01:08:23.260 know

01:08:23.340 what

01:08:23.460 were

01:08:23.560 the

01:08:23.680 winds

01:08:23.940 blah

01:08:24.160 blah

01:08:24.340 blah

01:08:24.500 so

01:08:26.080 I

01:08:26.440 don't

01:08:27.000 I

01:08:27.360 think

01:08:27.580 that

01:08:27.760 he

01:08:28.000 wanted

01:08:29.540 to

01:08:29.820 bury

01:08:30.240 himself

01:08:32.280 and

01:08:33.740 bury

01:08:34.020 the

01:08:34.240 memory

01:08:35.680 of

01:08:35.940 what

01:08:36.060 he

01:08:36.200 did

01:08:36.480 or

01:08:36.760 was

01:08:36.920 doing

01:08:37.300 and

01:08:38.000 bury

01:08:38.320 and bury

01:08:39.840 his

01:08:40.020 life

01:08:40.420 you know

01:08:41.080 and I

01:08:41.340 mean

01:08:42.100 he did

01:08:43.240 a very

01:08:43.660 very

01:08:44.240 bad

01:08:45.520 thing

01:08:45.900 and he

01:08:46.940 wasn't

01:08:47.220 a very

01:08:47.620 very

01:08:47.880 bad

01:08:48.320 person

01:08:48.760 he

01:08:49.880 went

01:08:50.080 haywire

01:08:50.440 and how

01:08:52.100 soon

01:08:52.600 before

01:08:53.140 the

01:08:54.240 flight

01:08:55.740 he

01:08:56.240 went

01:08:56.520 haywire

01:08:57.020 there's

01:08:58.360 evidence

01:08:58.760 that he

01:08:59.180 was going

01:09:00.020 haywire

01:09:00.480 for weeks

01:09:01.000 before

01:09:01.460 oh

01:09:04.500 I

01:09:04.660 forgot

01:09:04.880 to

01:09:05.100 mention

01:09:05.320 to

01:09:05.500 you

01:09:05.720 that

01:09:06.620 the

01:09:07.000 though

01:09:08.900 the

01:09:09.140 wife

01:09:09.420 and

01:09:09.820 the

01:09:09.960 daughter

01:09:10.300 were

01:09:11.140 originally

01:09:11.500 saying

01:09:11.920 he

01:09:12.180 was

01:09:12.360 a

01:09:12.500 happy

01:09:12.780 guy

01:09:13.620 well

01:09:13.920 adjusted

01:09:14.420 and

01:09:15.740 that's

01:09:16.000 what

01:09:16.180 they

01:09:16.360 were

01:09:16.500 maintaining

01:09:16.980 when

01:09:17.400 I

01:09:17.560 was

01:09:17.700 in

01:09:17.820 Kuala

01:09:18.040 Lumpur

01:09:18.460 and

01:09:18.900 I

01:09:19.060 said

01:09:19.840 no

01:09:20.520 this

01:09:20.800 is

01:09:20.940 not

01:09:21.120 true

01:09:21.400 this

01:09:21.660 is

01:09:21.820 he

01:09:23.080 was

01:09:23.300 not

01:09:23.960 adjusted

01:09:24.440 well

01:09:24.800 they

01:09:25.520 then

01:09:25.780 came

01:09:26.060 out

01:09:26.360 I

01:09:26.840 don't

01:09:26.980 know

01:09:27.140 how

01:09:27.360 long

01:09:27.660 afterward

01:09:28.080 and

01:09:28.820 have

01:09:29.020 since

01:09:29.380 said

01:09:30.280 to

01:09:30.640 newspapers

01:09:31.140 I

01:09:31.300 think

01:09:31.420 an

01:09:31.540 Australian

01:09:31.960 newspaper

01:09:32.520 that

01:09:33.120 no

01:09:33.300 he

01:09:33.460 was

01:09:33.640 very

01:09:33.880 unhappy

01:09:34.580 well

01:09:35.320 no

01:09:35.580 kidding

01:09:35.860 of course

01:09:36.220 he

01:09:36.320 was

01:09:36.460 unhappy

01:09:36.920 you

01:09:37.660 know

01:09:37.780 that

01:09:37.980 so

01:09:38.440 he

01:09:40.280 was

01:09:40.440 very

01:09:40.900 unhappy

01:09:41.520 midlife

01:09:43.640 crisis

01:09:44.160 my

01:09:46.220 god

01:09:46.580 I

01:09:46.800 mean

01:09:46.960 239

01:09:48.020 dead

01:09:48.280 think

01:09:48.580 of

01:09:48.760 how

01:09:49.460 we

01:09:49.660 think

01:09:49.920 about

01:09:50.300 Jeffrey

01:09:50.820 Dahmer

01:09:51.320 Charles

01:09:52.040 Manson

01:09:52.660 Ted

01:09:53.340 Bundy

01:09:53.900 they

01:09:55.140 don't

01:09:55.580 hold

01:09:55.800 a

01:09:55.940 candle

01:09:56.220 to

01:09:56.400 this

01:09:56.560 guy

01:09:56.780 like

01:09:57.260 there's

01:09:57.660 this

01:09:58.460 name

01:09:58.900 does

01:09:59.140 not

01:09:59.420 say

01:10:01.920 again

01:10:02.220 think

01:10:03.820 about

01:10:04.000 the

01:10:04.180 children

01:10:04.560 that

01:10:04.780 were

01:10:04.880 on

01:10:05.000 that

01:10:05.140 airplane

01:10:05.440 and

01:10:05.620 that's

01:10:05.800 what

01:10:05.880 I

01:10:06.000 think

01:10:06.200 about

01:10:06.480 the

01:10:07.560 children

01:10:07.900 you

01:10:09.720 know

01:10:09.860 I

01:10:10.100 mean

01:10:10.500 it's

01:10:11.200 inexplicably

01:10:12.680 evil

01:10:13.160 a terrible

01:10:14.940 terrible

01:10:15.340 thing

01:10:15.780 yeah

01:10:17.840 awful

01:10:18.600 and

01:10:19.320 the thing

01:10:20.060 about

01:10:20.300 an airplane

01:10:20.740 is that

01:10:21.180 more than

01:10:21.640 most

01:10:22.000 modes

01:10:22.880 of

01:10:23.080 killing

01:10:23.920 it

01:10:25.060 lends

01:10:25.340 itself

01:10:25.760 to

01:10:25.980 mass

01:10:26.260 killing

01:10:26.580 because

01:10:28.940 they're

01:10:29.080 big

01:10:29.300 airplanes

01:10:29.700 they

01:10:29.880 carry

01:10:30.060 a lot

01:10:30.280 of

01:10:30.380 people

01:10:30.700 now

01:10:31.400 why

01:10:31.600 if

01:10:31.720 you

01:10:31.800 want

01:10:31.920 to

01:10:32.040 kill

01:10:32.180 yourself

01:10:32.520 you

01:10:32.680 don't

01:10:32.800 just

01:10:32.980 go out

01:10:33.220 and

01:10:33.320 kill

01:10:33.460 yourself

01:10:33.800 I

01:10:33.960 don't

01:10:34.060 know

01:10:34.160 most

01:10:34.400 people

01:10:34.660 do

01:10:34.980 they

01:10:36.200 don't

01:10:36.340 take

01:10:36.580 others

01:10:36.860 with

01:10:37.100 them

01:10:37.320 and

01:10:37.900 they

01:10:38.060 when

01:10:38.320 they

01:10:38.460 do

01:10:38.600 that

01:10:38.800 of

01:10:38.940 course

01:10:39.120 they

01:10:39.320 commit

01:10:41.720 enormous

01:10:42.380 violence

01:10:43.100 on their

01:10:43.920 friends

01:10:44.220 and families

01:10:44.920 suicide

01:10:45.580 does

01:10:46.100 and

01:10:46.900 it's

01:10:47.060 enormously

01:10:47.520 selfish

01:10:47.940 and

01:10:48.960 they

01:10:49.140 should

01:10:49.300 be

01:10:49.680 ashamed

01:10:50.620 but

01:10:51.800 in

01:10:52.840 this

01:10:53.260 case

01:10:53.540 and

01:10:53.700 we've

01:10:53.940 seen

01:10:54.180 these

01:10:54.440 cases

01:10:54.840 before

01:10:55.320 they

01:10:56.320 decide

01:10:56.760 they're

01:10:56.960 going

01:10:57.040 to

01:10:57.120 take

01:10:57.300 other

01:10:57.500 people

01:10:57.780 with

01:10:58.020 them

01:10:58.300 can

01:11:05.440 you

01:11:05.680 explain

01:11:06.340 to us

01:11:06.820 the

01:11:07.160 Malaysian

01:11:07.920 government's

01:11:08.480 role

01:11:08.860 in this

01:11:09.460 remaining

01:11:10.100 quote

01:11:11.200 unquote

01:11:11.580 a mystery

01:11:12.240 for so

01:11:13.020 long

01:11:13.340 what was

01:11:14.400 it

01:11:14.540 they were

01:11:15.040 just

01:11:15.240 embarrassed

01:11:15.660 that their

01:11:16.260 pilot

01:11:16.620 appeared to

01:11:17.060 be

01:11:17.220 suicidal

01:11:17.680 and

01:11:17.960 committed

01:11:18.220 this

01:11:18.460 terrible

01:11:18.700 act

01:11:19.100 and so

01:11:19.360 they

01:11:19.520 did

01:11:19.700 everything

01:11:20.020 possible

01:11:20.580 to

01:11:20.920 cover

01:11:22.000 it

01:11:22.160 up

01:11:22.340 yes

01:11:25.820 and

01:11:26.500 again

01:11:28.700 it gets

01:11:29.140 into

01:11:29.300 some

01:11:29.540 sexual

01:11:29.940 stuff

01:11:30.460 it

01:11:31.560 gets

01:11:31.780 into

01:11:32.080 really

01:11:33.060 deep

01:11:34.840 political

01:11:35.980 stuff

01:11:36.400 in

01:11:36.640 Malaysia

01:11:37.260 and

01:11:37.660 I

01:11:38.160 frankly

01:11:38.560 have

01:11:38.880 not

01:11:39.080 tracked

01:11:39.440 it

01:11:39.580 because

01:11:39.780 it

01:11:39.920 doesn't

01:11:40.100 interest

01:11:40.420 me

01:11:40.660 Malaysian

01:11:41.340 politics

01:11:41.760 that's

01:11:42.240 one

01:11:42.400 subject

01:11:42.720 that

01:11:42.880 really

01:11:43.360 does

01:11:43.640 not

01:11:43.800 interest

01:11:44.180 me

01:11:44.420 but

01:11:44.960 it

01:11:45.480 certainly

01:11:45.860 played

01:11:46.140 a role

01:11:46.480 here

01:11:46.720 he

01:11:46.900 was

01:11:47.200 politically

01:11:48.880 active

01:11:49.520 he

01:11:50.260 was

01:11:50.440 a

01:11:50.580 partisan

01:11:50.920 political

01:11:51.440 partisan

01:11:51.840 and

01:11:53.100 there

01:11:53.920 were

01:11:54.180 you

01:11:54.540 know

01:11:54.780 his

01:11:55.900 the

01:11:56.080 man

01:11:56.280 he

01:11:56.420 was

01:11:56.560 in

01:11:56.700 favor

01:11:56.980 of

01:11:57.280 his

01:11:57.420 prime

01:11:57.680 minister

01:11:58.040 was

01:11:58.320 in

01:11:58.500 jail

01:11:59.000 and

01:11:59.280 blah

01:11:59.940 blah

01:12:00.080 blah

01:12:00.340 and

01:12:01.200 then

01:12:01.340 out

01:12:01.520 of

01:12:01.640 jail

01:12:02.040 and

01:12:02.320 the

01:12:04.960 Malaysian

01:12:05.800 government

01:12:06.340 whether

01:12:06.940 on a

01:12:07.300 political

01:12:07.640 level

01:12:08.080 or on

01:12:08.480 a

01:12:08.600 bureaucratic

01:12:09.240 level

01:12:09.600 right

01:12:10.320 the

01:12:10.640 staff

01:12:11.400 the

01:12:12.420 deep

01:12:12.720 state

01:12:13.300 is

01:12:16.320 scared

01:12:18.320 they're

01:12:19.800 afraid

01:12:20.220 and they're

01:12:21.040 afraid for

01:12:21.520 their

01:12:21.680 careers

01:12:22.100 they're

01:12:22.440 afraid for

01:12:22.840 their

01:12:22.960 reputations

01:12:23.560 in a

01:12:23.880 small

01:12:24.140 society

01:12:24.700 like a

01:12:25.120 place

01:12:25.320 that's

01:12:25.540 a big

01:12:25.780 country

01:12:26.040 but where

01:12:26.440 very few

01:12:26.860 people

01:12:27.100 actually

01:12:27.580 run

01:12:27.900 it

01:12:28.080 their

01:12:29.180 friends

01:12:29.640 their

01:12:30.200 careers

01:12:30.760 their

01:12:31.640 reputations

01:12:32.400 their

01:12:33.360 ability

01:12:34.140 to

01:12:34.620 make

01:12:35.580 money

01:12:35.980 steal

01:12:37.260 money

01:12:37.600 that

01:12:39.260 is

01:12:39.600 that's

01:12:41.180 Malaysia

01:12:41.580 it's a

01:12:42.260 rough

01:12:42.440 place

01:12:42.940 you know

01:12:43.340 you don't

01:12:43.780 you can

01:12:44.560 go to

01:12:44.860 Malaysia

01:12:45.240 as I've

01:12:45.840 done

01:12:46.040 a few

01:12:47.200 times

01:12:47.640 in the

01:12:48.040 past

01:12:48.300 for the

01:12:48.680 Atlantic

01:12:48.960 on

01:12:49.560 different

01:12:49.800 subjects

01:12:50.360 piracy

01:12:51.080 being

01:12:51.340 one

01:12:51.620 and

01:12:52.900 you

01:12:55.160 find

01:12:55.880 that

01:12:56.160 it's

01:12:56.380 you

01:12:56.760 can

01:12:57.100 see

01:12:57.320 why

01:12:57.540 there

01:12:57.680 are

01:12:57.800 tourists

01:12:58.220 there

01:12:58.540 especially

01:12:59.680 along the

01:13:00.660 coast

01:13:00.940 there's

01:13:01.140 some

01:13:01.260 beautiful

01:13:01.580 beaches

01:13:02.220 and

01:13:02.600 resort

01:13:03.340 hotels

01:13:03.920 in

01:13:04.040 Kuala

01:13:04.340 poor

01:13:04.600 it

01:13:04.740 could

01:13:04.840 be

01:13:05.100 you know

01:13:05.500 it's

01:13:05.620 a

01:13:05.720 shopping

01:13:05.980 center

01:13:06.300 city

01:13:06.700 and

01:13:06.980 whatever

01:13:07.460 but

01:13:08.440 you

01:13:08.680 scratch

01:13:09.060 beneath

01:13:09.380 the

01:13:09.600 surface

01:13:09.900 there

01:13:10.240 you

01:13:10.980 start

01:13:11.280 poking

01:13:11.600 around

01:13:12.060 areas

01:13:13.160 that they

01:13:13.500 don't want

01:13:13.820 you to

01:13:14.040 poke

01:13:14.240 around

01:13:14.460 and you

01:13:14.700 taking

01:13:15.020 your

01:13:15.200 life

01:13:15.420 in

01:13:15.540 your

01:13:15.680 hands

01:13:16.000 and

01:13:16.420 there's

01:13:16.580 no

01:13:16.740 question

01:13:17.080 about

01:13:17.380 that

01:13:17.640 people

01:13:18.220 disappear

01:13:18.700 off the

01:13:19.080 streets

01:13:19.400 they do

01:13:20.280 now

01:13:20.940 they did

01:13:21.720 then

01:13:22.200 and

01:13:22.920 this is

01:13:23.560 not

01:13:23.760 something

01:13:24.040 you

01:13:24.260 just

01:13:24.540 approach

01:13:24.940 casually

01:13:26.220 and I

01:13:27.680 have said

01:13:28.640 you know

01:13:29.340 Blaine

01:13:29.900 if he

01:13:30.340 if he

01:13:31.460 wants to

01:13:31.820 really get

01:13:32.260 at this

01:13:32.620 and have

01:13:32.900 a real

01:13:33.280 adventure

01:13:33.660 in life

01:13:34.140 go back

01:13:35.980 to

01:13:36.120 Kuala

01:13:36.360 poor

01:13:36.660 and start

01:13:37.020 asking

01:13:37.300 questions

01:13:37.820 but

01:13:38.520 you know

01:13:39.440 he's

01:13:40.060 he's

01:13:40.900 rather

01:13:41.400 paranoid

01:13:42.300 and frightened

01:13:43.200 and to

01:13:44.260 some extent

01:13:44.780 for good

01:13:45.140 reason

01:13:45.480 he worries

01:13:47.040 about being

01:13:47.760 killed

01:13:48.340 and assassinated

01:13:49.940 or

01:13:50.380 yeah

01:13:50.900 basically

01:13:51.640 not arrested

01:13:52.540 but just

01:13:52.920 taken off

01:13:53.440 taken out

01:13:54.080 and it's not

01:13:55.420 entirely crazy

01:13:56.500 why aren't

01:13:57.680 the Chinese

01:13:58.320 like the

01:13:59.300 plane was

01:13:59.820 filled mostly

01:14:00.460 with Chinese

01:14:01.020 citizens

01:14:01.400 so why

01:14:02.560 wouldn't

01:14:03.000 China

01:14:03.460 be putting

01:14:04.500 its foot

01:14:04.880 down

01:14:05.260 and saying

01:14:05.980 we will

01:14:07.320 find out

01:14:07.940 we will

01:14:08.460 figure this

01:14:09.040 out

01:14:09.260 we do

01:14:09.620 think it

01:14:09.980 was your

01:14:10.280 pilot

01:14:10.620 you know

01:14:11.120 why would

01:14:11.480 they be

01:14:11.840 so

01:14:12.340 hands

01:14:14.560 off

01:14:15.000 on

01:14:15.540 getting

01:14:16.100 to

01:14:16.320 the

01:14:16.520 real

01:14:17.060 truth

01:14:17.340 here

01:14:17.600 it's a

01:14:19.620 version

01:14:19.960 of

01:14:20.200 Malaysia

01:14:20.600 I mean

01:14:21.320 it's

01:14:21.620 kind

01:14:22.240 of

01:14:22.360 it's

01:14:22.700 a

01:14:22.820 more

01:14:23.160 advanced

01:14:23.640 more

01:14:24.280 populated

01:14:24.780 version

01:14:25.180 more

01:14:25.480 powerful

01:14:25.840 version

01:14:26.160 of

01:14:26.300 Malaysia

01:14:26.600 I mean

01:14:27.160 look at

01:14:27.460 how they

01:14:27.720 responded

01:14:28.120 to the

01:14:28.400 COVID

01:14:28.660 thing

01:14:29.680 but they

01:14:31.580 in this

01:14:31.840 scenario

01:14:32.220 don't have

01:14:32.820 anything

01:14:33.060 to cover

01:14:33.460 up

01:14:33.900 this

01:14:34.300 isn't

01:14:34.860 their

01:14:35.040 sin

01:14:35.360 you would

01:14:35.720 think

01:14:35.860 they'd

01:14:36.100 want

01:14:36.260 a real

01:14:36.560 answer

01:14:36.940 no I'm

01:14:38.940 not sure

01:14:39.200 of that

01:14:39.460 because they

01:14:40.020 don't want

01:14:40.320 their citizens

01:14:40.880 making trouble

01:14:41.580 so I can't

01:14:42.580 speak for what

01:14:43.520 the Chinese

01:14:44.000 authorities

01:14:44.480 I do know

01:14:45.320 for sure

01:14:45.980 that the

01:14:46.920 Chinese

01:14:47.220 authorities

01:14:47.780 after a

01:14:48.340 little bit

01:14:48.720 of sympathy

01:14:49.080 told them

01:14:49.480 to shut

01:14:49.860 up

01:14:50.220 and

01:14:51.100 expressions

01:14:52.280 of sympathy

01:14:53.100 or demands

01:14:54.440 for further

01:14:55.580 investigations

01:14:56.280 that happened

01:14:57.760 in China

01:14:58.480 were absolutely

01:14:59.680 shut down

01:15:00.420 in no uncertain

01:15:01.540 terms

01:15:01.880 when that

01:15:02.540 started to

01:15:03.080 happen

01:15:03.360 I don't

01:15:03.700 know

01:15:03.860 but it

01:15:04.080 was a

01:15:04.940 few months

01:15:05.380 after the

01:15:05.960 accident

01:15:06.320 initially

01:15:06.840 the Chinese

01:15:08.000 were on

01:15:09.760 the side

01:15:10.180 of right

01:15:11.520 you know

01:15:13.620 let's find out

01:15:14.360 what happened

01:15:14.840 it wasn't

01:15:15.420 one of their

01:15:15.840 airplanes

01:15:16.180 but

01:15:16.540 their citizens

01:15:18.660 started making

01:15:19.260 too much

01:15:19.680 of a fuss

01:15:20.240 and the

01:15:20.960 Chinese

01:15:21.240 don't like

01:15:21.720 fusses

01:15:22.500 so I

01:15:23.540 think that's

01:15:23.920 pretty much

01:15:24.500 why you

01:15:25.060 know

01:15:25.220 they did

01:15:25.640 that

01:15:25.820 I don't

01:15:26.100 think they

01:15:26.360 felt in

01:15:26.700 any way

01:15:26.880 responsible

01:15:27.360 for this

01:15:27.980 but they

01:15:28.880 just don't

01:15:29.240 like you

01:15:29.720 know

01:15:29.900 rabble

01:15:30.360 rousing

01:15:30.720 they need

01:15:31.880 to keep

01:15:32.260 things calm

01:15:33.000 keep a lid

01:15:33.620 on it

01:15:34.060 and that's

01:15:35.180 what they

01:15:35.520 did

01:15:35.720 they put

01:15:36.080 a lid

01:15:36.360 on this

01:15:36.900 that does

01:15:38.540 sound like

01:15:38.960 them

01:15:39.200 there's been

01:15:40.760 so many

01:15:41.200 theories

01:15:41.620 I remember

01:15:42.180 being on

01:15:42.640 the air

01:15:43.080 when this

01:15:43.800 happened

01:15:44.240 at Fox

01:15:45.460 and it

01:15:46.800 was such

01:15:47.140 a mystery

01:15:47.500 you know

01:15:47.760 right from

01:15:48.040 the beginning

01:15:48.440 it was

01:15:48.880 very confusing

01:15:49.600 because

01:15:50.180 nothing made

01:15:51.060 sense to

01:15:51.520 us

01:15:51.760 civilians

01:15:52.380 right off

01:15:53.300 the top

01:15:53.620 we've

01:15:53.820 covered a

01:15:54.120 lot of

01:15:54.340 airplanes

01:15:54.680 going down

01:15:55.240 as news

01:15:55.620 anchors

01:15:55.980 but nothing

01:15:56.520 here was

01:15:58.120 familiar or

01:15:58.840 made sense

01:15:59.320 you may

01:16:00.180 remember at

01:16:00.820 the time

01:16:01.220 Don Lemon

01:16:01.740 over on

01:16:02.200 CNN said

01:16:02.940 maybe it was

01:16:03.540 a black

01:16:03.880 hole that

01:16:04.940 swallowed up

01:16:05.480 the airplane

01:16:05.940 so there

01:16:07.100 was a lot

01:16:07.600 of

01:16:08.040 non-based

01:16:10.420 questioning

01:16:10.940 going on

01:16:11.540 out there

01:16:11.800 not well

01:16:12.420 founded

01:16:12.780 questioning

01:16:13.200 going on

01:16:13.600 out there

01:16:13.920 what do

01:16:14.900 you think

01:16:16.060 has been

01:16:17.600 missed

01:16:17.840 I guess

01:16:19.620 I'm trying

01:16:20.000 to ask

01:16:20.460 the fact

01:16:21.220 that most

01:16:21.800 news anchors

01:16:23.260 and news

01:16:23.680 journalists

01:16:24.140 have no

01:16:25.080 background

01:16:25.480 in aviation

01:16:26.160 seems to

01:16:27.660 me to

01:16:27.960 have been

01:16:28.200 a real

01:16:28.500 handicap

01:16:29.000 in covering

01:16:30.420 this story

01:16:31.040 well

01:16:31.400 and some

01:16:32.500 being sucked

01:16:33.020 down

01:16:33.280 conspiracy

01:16:33.900 rabbit holes

01:16:34.640 and so on

01:16:35.300 as somebody

01:16:35.860 who's both

01:16:36.560 a journalist

01:16:37.200 and a former

01:16:37.700 pilot

01:16:38.100 what's been

01:16:40.020 your impression

01:16:40.580 well

01:16:42.880 aviation

01:16:44.440 lends itself

01:16:45.440 to

01:16:45.880 ignorance

01:16:47.780 because it

01:16:48.420 does require

01:16:49.060 experience

01:16:51.300 and education

01:16:52.120 it's a little

01:16:52.840 bit mysterious

01:16:53.520 not very

01:16:54.760 but it's a

01:16:55.340 little bit

01:16:55.640 mysterious

01:16:56.060 and you

01:16:56.900 know

01:16:57.000 reporters

01:16:57.420 aren't

01:16:57.640 pilots

01:16:58.020 or engineers

01:16:58.860 and all

01:16:59.820 of that

01:17:00.060 so it's

01:17:01.380 basically

01:17:01.760 that

01:17:02.160 I mean

01:17:02.500 especially

01:17:04.080 in a case

01:17:04.740 where you

01:17:05.420 don't have

01:17:05.780 the NTSB

01:17:06.580 NTSB

01:17:07.620 was there

01:17:08.040 but they

01:17:08.420 basically

01:17:09.280 fled the

01:17:09.920 investigation

01:17:10.480 in Malaysia

01:17:12.340 they would

01:17:13.860 not say

01:17:14.240 that

01:17:14.560 but that's

01:17:15.460 what happened

01:17:16.000 that's

01:17:20.060 that's

01:17:20.820 why

01:17:21.180 because the

01:17:22.060 airplane

01:17:22.300 disappeared

01:17:22.860 and it

01:17:24.100 leaves

01:17:24.720 as I

01:17:25.760 said

01:17:26.020 I don't

01:17:26.900 really

01:17:27.260 watch

01:17:27.700 television

01:17:28.220 but I

01:17:29.160 would

01:17:29.360 expect

01:17:30.120 that to

01:17:30.900 be

01:17:31.280 the case

01:17:32.180 in this

01:17:32.800 case

01:17:33.100 on the

01:17:33.640 other

01:17:33.800 hand

01:17:34.120 I who

01:17:35.360 have

01:17:35.480 covered

01:17:35.920 major

01:17:37.160 airplane

01:17:37.540 accidents

01:17:37.980 ever since

01:17:38.560 the value

01:17:39.140 jet thing

01:17:39.660 in the

01:17:39.880 Everglades

01:17:40.440 and I'm

01:17:40.980 being near

01:17:41.420 France

01:17:41.900 and Egypt

01:17:42.580 Air

01:17:43.080 and things

01:17:44.420 in Brazil

01:17:44.900 I've been

01:17:45.820 all over

01:17:46.140 the world

01:17:46.440 covering

01:17:46.820 that's not

01:17:47.400 what I

01:17:47.640 really

01:17:47.880 primarily

01:17:48.380 do

01:17:48.880 but it's

01:17:49.920 what I've

01:17:50.220 been assigned

01:17:50.780 to do

01:17:51.320 at the

01:17:51.800 request

01:17:52.140 of my

01:17:52.480 editors

01:17:52.860 for years

01:17:54.640 so I've

01:17:55.580 been to

01:17:55.940 many of

01:17:57.020 the really

01:17:57.300 big

01:17:57.780 airplane

01:17:58.640 accident

01:17:59.220 investigations

01:17:59.880 I know

01:18:01.360 that I

01:18:01.780 normally

01:18:02.100 don't even

01:18:02.620 start into

01:18:03.220 them

01:18:03.520 until a

01:18:04.460 year has

01:18:05.000 gone by

01:18:05.680 and let

01:18:06.680 the crowd

01:18:07.540 wander on

01:18:09.860 and then I

01:18:10.280 come in

01:18:10.760 with a

01:18:11.420 very long

01:18:11.900 article

01:18:12.280 and very

01:18:12.780 knowledgeable

01:18:13.320 because

01:18:13.760 frankly

01:18:14.140 I grew

01:18:14.520 up

01:18:14.700 around

01:18:15.120 airplanes

01:18:15.560 and my

01:18:15.900 friends

01:18:16.220 are

01:18:16.440 my

01:18:16.980 deep

01:18:17.800 friends

01:18:18.160 among

01:18:18.520 accident

01:18:19.000 investigators

01:18:19.660 who talk

01:18:20.240 to me

01:18:20.520 both in

01:18:20.900 Europe

01:18:21.140 and in

01:18:21.620 the United

01:18:21.880 States

01:18:22.280 they trust

01:18:23.340 me

01:18:23.680 because I

01:18:24.960 don't write

01:18:25.600 nonsense

01:18:26.260 on the

01:18:28.360 other hand

01:18:28.860 on the

01:18:29.240 third hand

01:18:29.820 I had an

01:18:31.120 early experience

01:18:31.980 with the

01:18:32.820 value jet

01:18:33.420 accident in

01:18:34.100 the Everglades

01:18:34.740 where a

01:18:37.560 DC-9

01:18:38.380 an airplane

01:18:38.880 you don't see

01:18:39.440 anymore

01:18:39.840 a little twin

01:18:40.380 jet

01:18:40.760 belonging to

01:18:42.000 value jet

01:18:42.500 went down

01:18:43.100 in the

01:18:43.360 Everglades

01:18:43.900 and it

01:18:44.360 turned out

01:18:44.940 to be a

01:18:45.420 cargo fire

01:18:46.640 oxygen

01:18:47.260 canisters

01:18:47.720 a really

01:18:48.160 interesting

01:18:48.540 story

01:18:49.000 I went

01:18:49.820 down to

01:18:50.260 Miami

01:18:50.640 for that

01:18:51.160 for the

01:18:52.000 Atlantic

01:18:52.380 and this

01:18:54.000 is a long

01:18:54.420 time ago

01:18:54.880 and I

01:18:55.820 was holding

01:18:57.520 myself to be

01:18:58.300 superior to

01:18:59.080 these reporters

01:18:59.740 who were

01:19:00.020 around me

01:19:00.280 these were

01:19:00.540 television

01:19:01.480 reporters

01:19:02.020 national and

01:19:02.980 local

01:19:03.320 reporters

01:19:04.240 normal

01:19:04.720 reporters

01:19:05.260 and I

01:19:06.600 was naive

01:19:07.600 and

01:19:08.020 kind of

01:19:09.560 snobby

01:19:10.100 about it

01:19:10.480 within my

01:19:10.920 own mind

01:19:11.380 I didn't

01:19:11.940 make that

01:19:12.420 clear to

01:19:12.900 them but

01:19:13.320 I thought

01:19:13.600 you guys

01:19:13.980 you know

01:19:14.280 I know

01:19:14.980 what this

01:19:15.280 was this

01:19:16.140 was an

01:19:16.460 electrical

01:19:16.800 fire I

01:19:17.740 know that

01:19:18.100 because I

01:19:18.600 as a

01:19:19.040 cargo pilot

01:19:19.900 had had

01:19:20.580 a series

01:19:21.120 of electrical

01:19:21.660 fires that

01:19:22.500 looked a lot

01:19:23.180 like the fire

01:19:23.720 that took

01:19:24.080 this airplane

01:19:24.480 down and

01:19:25.440 so I

01:19:25.720 thought yeah

01:19:26.280 you guys

01:19:26.720 whatever well

01:19:27.560 it turned

01:19:27.860 out they

01:19:28.180 were right

01:19:28.720 and I

01:19:29.120 was wrong

01:19:29.700 so now

01:19:30.860 it was easy

01:19:31.360 for me

01:19:31.720 because I

01:19:32.080 didn't have

01:19:32.480 to write

01:19:32.900 anything about

01:19:33.640 it for a

01:19:34.060 year so I

01:19:35.140 ended up

01:19:35.540 not looking

01:19:36.240 like a fool

01:19:36.820 so I

01:19:37.700 earned an

01:19:38.680 early lesson

01:19:39.400 to respecting

01:19:42.240 the non

01:19:43.900 technical

01:19:44.340 aspect of

01:19:46.880 normal

01:19:47.240 reporters the

01:19:48.500 ability of

01:19:49.360 reporters to

01:19:50.100 get to a

01:19:50.740 story that

01:19:52.260 they are not

01:19:52.920 experts in

01:19:53.840 and actually

01:19:54.600 maybe do

01:19:55.220 better than

01:19:55.880 an expert

01:19:56.440 like me

01:19:57.000 I am an

01:19:57.720 expert in

01:19:58.180 aviation much

01:19:59.040 as I

01:19:59.360 sort of

01:20:00.020 regret it

01:20:00.500 they did

01:20:03.440 a better

01:20:03.720 job than

01:20:04.180 I did

01:20:04.500 and for

01:20:04.800 me it

01:20:05.060 was a

01:20:05.280 profound

01:20:05.520 lesson

01:20:05.900 so I'm

01:20:06.760 the last

01:20:07.180 person who's

01:20:08.240 going to

01:20:08.500 denigrate

01:20:08.920 I don't

01:20:10.420 know what

01:20:10.720 they're saying

01:20:11.080 about MH370

01:20:12.100 I don't

01:20:13.400 watch TV

01:20:14.180 I don't

01:20:14.720 know but

01:20:15.500 I will

01:20:17.660 never denigrate

01:20:18.380 reporters plus

01:20:18.980 I spent three

01:20:19.560 years in

01:20:19.960 Baghdad where

01:20:21.180 you know

01:20:21.640 where I

01:20:22.940 watched my

01:20:24.160 closest proximity

01:20:25.000 to normal

01:20:25.740 reporters which

01:20:26.480 I'm not

01:20:26.980 was I

01:20:29.340 came away

01:20:29.840 from that

01:20:30.280 well very

01:20:30.740 early on I

01:20:31.340 developed a

01:20:32.360 deep respect

01:20:33.100 for the

01:20:34.180 reporters the

01:20:34.840 ordinary

01:20:35.220 reporters you

01:20:36.000 know Chicago

01:20:36.520 Tribune,

01:20:37.080 New York

01:20:37.320 Times,

01:20:37.700 blah blah blah

01:20:38.180 TV reporters,

01:20:39.560 CNN,

01:20:40.760 they were

01:20:41.620 around me that

01:20:42.740 I never really

01:20:43.340 been around

01:20:43.900 these people

01:20:44.340 before.

01:20:45.820 I watched

01:20:46.660 them almost

01:20:47.300 as much as

01:20:47.840 I watched

01:20:48.200 the war

01:20:48.660 and I

01:20:49.680 was I

01:20:50.300 came away

01:20:50.760 from it

01:20:51.080 with a deep

01:20:51.720 respect for

01:20:52.960 their courage

01:20:53.620 for their

01:20:54.760 intelligence

01:20:55.420 for their

01:20:56.520 ability to

01:20:57.120 learn quickly

01:20:57.760 and I

01:20:59.660 again I'm

01:21:01.220 the last

01:21:01.620 person who's

01:21:02.160 going to

01:21:02.360 criticize

01:21:02.760 normal

01:21:04.360 reporters for

01:21:05.100 their lack

01:21:05.500 of expertise

01:21:06.140 in Iraq

01:21:07.620 they had it

01:21:09.340 all they knew

01:21:09.980 exactly what

01:21:10.740 was going on

01:21:11.440 very early

01:21:12.360 they knew we

01:21:13.440 were losing

01:21:13.880 the war and

01:21:14.880 they had a

01:21:15.380 problem transmitting

01:21:16.540 that information

01:21:17.300 to the American

01:21:17.920 public because

01:21:19.000 they had to be

01:21:19.660 filtered by the

01:21:20.500 institutions that

01:21:21.620 sent them there

01:21:22.160 the editors and

01:21:22.880 readers and so

01:21:24.400 forth but the

01:21:25.560 reporters were

01:21:26.240 incredibly smart

01:21:27.680 dedicated brave

01:21:29.640 beyond belief and

01:21:31.120 so I'm a fan

01:21:33.440 ah well let me

01:21:36.480 ask you this as

01:21:37.320 somebody who has

01:21:38.180 had lengthy

01:21:39.040 experience reporting

01:21:40.200 on these many

01:21:40.720 accidents I mean

01:21:41.560 to someone like

01:21:42.640 me it affects me

01:21:43.480 as a journalist

01:21:43.980 it affects me as

01:21:44.720 a mom as a

01:21:45.960 human and as

01:21:47.800 an airline traveler

01:21:49.040 because I'm not

01:21:50.560 the strongest most

01:21:52.940 secure person

01:21:54.100 when I'm up

01:21:55.120 there I

01:21:56.320 definitely have a

01:21:57.000 fear of flying

01:21:57.600 and things like

01:21:59.620 this are very

01:22:00.200 scary you know

01:22:01.120 to the stuff you

01:22:02.160 were saying about

01:22:02.780 how he could just

01:22:03.440 depressurize the

01:22:04.320 airplane and in

01:22:05.880 a couple of

01:22:06.640 minutes you'd be

01:22:07.180 dead like I

01:22:08.580 realize how

01:22:09.080 incredibly rare

01:22:09.800 this is but

01:22:10.380 just a word from

01:22:12.140 you in in

01:22:13.160 parting on the

01:22:14.660 safety of air

01:22:15.280 travel and what

01:22:17.520 what people like

01:22:18.280 me should be

01:22:18.980 remembering when

01:22:19.960 we go up there

01:22:20.560 well I mean it's

01:22:23.220 often said and

01:22:24.260 and and usually

01:22:25.340 believe but that

01:22:26.500 airplanes are very

01:22:27.760 very airline travel

01:22:29.060 is very very safe

01:22:29.840 and that is

01:22:30.240 correct I mean

01:22:31.320 statistically you

01:22:32.160 just this cannot

01:22:33.160 be denied so

01:22:34.400 being afraid of

01:22:35.080 flying on the

01:22:35.540 airlines is sort

01:22:36.760 of like being

01:22:37.140 afraid of crossing

01:22:38.080 the road and

01:22:40.640 you would of

01:22:41.180 course I mean I

01:22:41.700 would and do

01:22:42.700 willingly send my

01:22:43.620 small children I've

01:22:44.440 got small children

01:22:45.200 and older children

01:22:46.640 get on the

01:22:48.160 airplane no

01:22:48.660 problem whatever

01:22:49.240 no problem I

01:22:50.900 don't I don't

01:22:51.480 think about it

01:22:52.220 like who's

01:22:52.720 flying the

01:22:53.060 airplane when I'm

01:22:53.640 not flying the

01:22:54.180 airplane you know

01:22:54.860 who's who's in

01:22:55.880 front of me fine

01:22:56.680 and a lot of

01:22:57.720 them are not

01:22:58.340 very smart

01:22:59.160 people but the

01:23:00.400 system is so

01:23:01.460 monitored and

01:23:04.500 dependent on

01:23:05.640 teamwork and

01:23:06.480 training and this

01:23:07.380 and that that it

01:23:08.060 turns out to be

01:23:08.660 very very safe

01:23:09.500 and it's become

01:23:10.380 that way partly

01:23:11.140 largely through

01:23:12.080 engineering which

01:23:13.360 starting starting

01:23:14.080 with the advent of

01:23:15.200 the jet engine

01:23:15.780 in the 1960s

01:23:16.840 and the

01:23:17.660 airplane the

01:23:18.160 job got more

01:23:18.960 and more boring

01:23:19.760 and more and

01:23:20.300 more safe right

01:23:21.360 so that's number

01:23:23.820 one it doesn't

01:23:24.920 take much to fly

01:23:25.660 one of these

01:23:25.980 airplanes and

01:23:27.320 and and you

01:23:28.300 got two guys

01:23:29.180 or women a

01:23:30.280 man a woman

01:23:30.740 whoever who

01:23:31.280 can do it in

01:23:31.880 the front that's

01:23:33.680 number one

01:23:34.120 number two if

01:23:34.840 you look at

01:23:35.720 the the thing

01:23:37.440 that seems to

01:23:38.320 scare people the

01:23:39.140 most from my

01:23:40.620 casual observation

01:23:42.060 and conversation

01:23:42.800 you know around

01:23:44.420 dinner table it's

01:23:45.720 turbulence right

01:23:47.020 and I know that

01:23:48.440 dominates in a

01:23:49.560 terrible way the

01:23:50.780 lives of airline

01:23:51.680 pilots they go

01:23:53.080 around a tiptoe

01:23:54.740 around the

01:23:57.680 the passengers

01:23:58.720 fear of

01:23:59.560 turbulence it's

01:24:00.380 terrible because

01:24:01.220 they only have

01:24:02.580 one life and

01:24:03.760 the passengers

01:24:04.260 threshold for

01:24:05.160 turbulence is

01:24:06.060 ridiculous the

01:24:07.640 airplanes can

01:24:08.640 handle a whole

01:24:09.560 lot more

01:24:10.060 turbulence than

01:24:11.020 the passengers

01:24:11.620 can there's no

01:24:12.680 problem with

01:24:13.440 turbulence when I

01:24:14.660 get in severe

01:24:15.200 turbulence and

01:24:15.800 I had a job

01:24:16.480 my last job

01:24:17.400 is flying and

01:24:18.160 hunting severe

01:24:19.560 weather right so

01:24:21.140 going into severe

01:24:22.360 turbulence and

01:24:23.000 other forms of

01:24:23.760 severe weather on

01:24:24.960 purpose for a few

01:24:25.760 years I did that

01:24:26.660 and this I was

01:24:28.180 transitioning to

01:24:29.280 journalism but

01:24:30.480 yeah you know

01:24:32.460 we hunted the

01:24:34.780 worst weather

01:24:35.360 nationwide in the

01:24:36.420 U.S.

01:24:38.120 nationwide and

01:24:39.300 flew into it for

01:24:40.620 days on end and

01:24:42.400 for technical

01:24:44.920 reasons it was a

01:24:46.500 job but point

01:24:48.180 is we were

01:24:49.800 flying into

01:24:50.460 conditions that

01:24:51.820 no airliner ever

01:24:52.940 goes into ever

01:24:54.080 ever you get a

01:24:58.180 few little bumps

01:24:58.940 which would be not

01:25:01.060 even worth thinking

01:25:02.440 about it for a

01:25:03.460 pilot and people

01:25:04.800 are writing letters

01:25:05.480 to the senator and

01:25:06.380 the congressman

01:25:07.000 they think they're

01:25:07.720 dying that's a big

01:25:09.220 problem and it's

01:25:10.780 totally unnecessary

01:25:12.260 the airplanes are

01:25:13.460 extraordinarily strong

01:25:14.920 and to give you

01:25:17.780 an example we

01:25:18.500 would find a

01:25:19.300 turbulence that

01:25:21.360 would is so rough

01:25:22.320 that you couldn't

01:25:23.080 see the instrument

01:25:23.880 panels right it's

01:25:24.700 shaking so hard

01:25:25.400 and also they

01:25:26.800 would depending on

01:25:27.980 the design of the

01:25:29.440 seat belt and so

01:25:30.020 forth would bruise

01:25:30.900 your thighs you

01:25:31.980 know you have a

01:25:32.520 shoulder harness too

01:25:33.080 but you come away

01:25:34.260 with it from it

01:25:35.260 bruised physically

01:25:36.200 bruised the

01:25:36.920 airplane didn't

01:25:38.020 care it's fine but

01:25:40.200 tell that to the

01:25:41.060 passengers so if

01:25:42.420 there's one thing

01:25:42.920 you can say very

01:25:43.440 specific other

01:25:45.080 than check the

01:25:46.420 statistics it's

01:25:47.920 safe globally and

01:25:50.100 safe for a reason

01:25:51.380 then you can say

01:25:53.320 very specifically

01:25:54.100 learn about

01:25:55.260 turbulence you know

01:25:56.340 don't be afraid of

01:25:57.120 turbulence

01:25:57.500 that's

01:25:57.800 that makes me feel

01:26:02.740 bad

01:26:02.860 I had a

01:26:03.620 assignment from

01:26:05.380 vanity fair

01:26:06.580 after the Atlantic

01:26:07.760 was working

01:26:08.140 vanity fair

01:26:08.580 and they came

01:26:09.780 up with the idea

01:26:10.300 of sending me

01:26:10.940 to find the

01:26:11.440 worst airline in

01:26:12.120 the world and

01:26:12.720 fly with it

01:26:13.200 and I the most

01:26:15.780 unsafe airline in

01:26:16.840 the world and fly

01:26:17.640 with them and

01:26:18.120 they I found them

01:26:18.840 in Kinshasa

01:26:19.480 that's a terrible

01:26:20.720 assignment

01:26:21.340 what are they

01:26:23.380 doing trying to

01:26:23.860 kill you off

01:26:24.380 it was great

01:26:25.060 no I thought

01:26:26.260 it was great

01:26:26.580 no no it's

01:26:27.220 great I had a

01:26:28.220 great time and

01:26:29.780 and up in the

01:26:31.060 cockpit of these

01:26:31.820 old Soviet

01:26:33.300 turboprops flying

01:26:34.460 around Congo

01:26:35.080 and really a lot

01:26:37.580 of them but

01:26:38.740 anyway these

01:26:39.460 airlines are

01:26:40.220 blacklisted right

01:26:41.140 you can't take

01:26:41.760 them anywhere out

01:26:42.300 of Congo and

01:26:43.000 they crash all

01:26:44.060 the time okay

01:26:45.100 they're not like

01:26:45.840 airlines here they

01:26:46.440 don't crash they

01:26:47.080 hardly ever crash

01:26:48.200 those guys they

01:26:49.600 crash them all the

01:26:50.280 time sometimes

01:26:51.380 they die sometimes

01:26:52.760 they don't usually

01:26:53.860 they don't die but

01:26:55.060 I went and I

01:26:58.280 truly had a great

01:26:59.120 time doing that

01:27:00.420 for a few weeks

01:27:01.240 with these pilots

01:27:02.580 why how is that

01:27:04.020 a great time

01:27:04.800 you're a crazy

01:27:05.540 man say yes

01:27:07.680 to that who

01:27:08.340 would say no

01:27:09.960 how is that

01:27:10.780 the point is

01:27:13.100 that's how safe

01:27:13.860 airplanes are

01:27:14.580 you know they

01:27:16.380 don't crash and

01:27:17.660 if they do crash

01:27:18.480 they're probably

01:27:18.960 not going to

01:27:19.400 kill you and

01:27:20.340 whatever it's

01:27:21.060 fine you know

01:27:21.780 and by the way

01:27:22.460 everybody dies

01:27:25.280 sometimes

01:27:25.840 oh god that is

01:27:28.620 of no comfort

01:27:29.320 when you're up

01:27:29.900 there and

01:27:30.420 thinking it's

01:27:31.160 this time it's

01:27:31.860 right now

01:27:32.280 yeah but

01:27:33.580 everything else

01:27:34.440 you said

01:27:34.820 that was a

01:27:36.800 soothing bomb

01:27:37.340 I'm going to

01:27:38.220 be thinking about

01:27:38.940 that story about

01:27:39.640 going into the

01:27:40.200 bad weather

01:27:40.840 and the plane

01:27:42.080 can take a lot

01:27:42.740 more than we

01:27:43.280 allow it to

01:27:43.800 you know I

01:27:44.380 would say that

01:27:44.880 all you need

01:27:46.580 is just like

01:27:47.020 the just the

01:27:48.200 jolly word from

01:27:49.140 the captain

01:27:49.600 that's all

01:27:50.100 I would bear

01:27:51.760 out the turbulent

01:27:52.700 ride if you know

01:27:53.620 just be nice to have

01:27:54.180 the pilot say like

01:27:54.880 oh no extra

01:27:56.720 charge for the fun

01:27:57.340 ride something

01:27:57.960 like that keep us

01:27:58.680 going as long as

01:28:01.080 you can hear there's

01:28:01.520 so burned out

01:28:02.580 if you look at

01:28:04.340 the air traffic

01:28:05.020 control conversations

01:28:06.140 the percentage of

01:28:08.080 those are right

01:28:09.320 what are known as

01:28:09.840 ride reports

01:28:10.660 so they're seeking

01:28:12.800 from air traffic

01:28:14.060 control

01:28:14.500 ride reports

01:28:15.940 from airplanes

01:28:16.560 that are going

01:28:16.960 ahead of them

01:28:17.600 and it's a lot

01:28:19.060 of rider reports

01:28:20.060 rider reports

01:28:20.880 rider reports

01:28:21.420 it's really awful

01:28:22.580 it's awful for the

01:28:23.900 lives of the pilots

01:28:24.880 and so it put you

01:28:26.560 put you in a bad

01:28:27.420 mood

01:28:27.820 and every time you

01:28:28.740 you get in turbulence

01:28:29.580 you have to excuse

01:28:30.560 it to the passengers

01:28:31.500 it makes you really

01:28:32.540 surly in a hurry

01:28:33.840 because it's such

01:28:35.440 not a problem

01:28:36.560 and it's messing

01:28:37.620 with the lives

01:28:38.380 of the pilots

01:28:39.180 okay well that

01:28:41.620 that also

01:28:42.300 makes me feel better

01:28:43.280 I mean we need

01:28:43.900 we need to be a

01:28:44.380 little tougher

01:28:44.860 because they do

01:28:45.880 I mean I appreciate

01:28:46.520 when they tell you

01:28:47.120 it's going to be bumpy

01:28:47.800 okay it's fine

01:28:48.360 it's going to be bumpy

01:28:48.860 but they need to be

01:28:50.240 saying it's going to

01:28:50.820 be bumpy

01:28:51.160 and we're going to

01:28:51.480 be fine

01:28:51.860 you don't have to

01:28:52.380 worry about the

01:28:52.760 bumps

01:28:53.020 I mean like

01:28:53.940 that should be

01:28:54.780 the second part

01:28:55.320 of the message

01:28:55.760 which it isn't

01:28:57.560 yeah people

01:28:58.620 don't believe

01:28:59.060 you have been

01:29:01.180 wonderful William

01:29:01.900 gosh it's so nice

01:29:02.860 to meet you

01:29:03.420 and have such

01:29:04.200 a clear thinker

01:29:05.400 and researcher

01:29:06.480 and talker

01:29:07.320 on the show

01:29:08.180 on something

01:29:08.560 this complex

01:29:09.260 what a pleasure

01:29:09.960 please come back

01:29:10.780 thank you very much

01:29:12.960 oh what an

01:29:14.240 incredible story

01:29:14.820 my gosh

01:29:15.440 just a sad

01:29:16.860 strange mystery

01:29:18.100 that may never

01:29:18.880 get fully

01:29:20.300 officially solved

01:29:21.760 but really gets

01:29:23.000 you thinking right

01:29:23.680 and a perfect way

01:29:24.400 to end our

01:29:25.140 hot crime

01:29:25.920 summer week

01:29:26.540 I want to tell you

01:29:27.560 that I am off

01:29:28.380 next week

01:29:28.960 spending some time

01:29:29.760 traveling with my

01:29:30.660 family

01:29:31.140 for our summer

01:29:31.900 vacay

01:29:32.460 we will be back

01:29:33.660 with you

01:29:34.060 on June 26th

01:29:35.640 live to talk

01:29:36.680 about all the news

01:29:37.720 have a great

01:29:38.500 great week

01:29:38.980 and I'll talk

01:29:39.600 to you soon

01:29:39.980 hey everyone

01:29:45.980 I'm Megan Kelly

01:29:46.700 welcome to the

01:29:47.280 Megan Kelly show

01:29:48.040 and to the first day

01:29:49.220 of our hot crime

01:29:50.320 summer week

01:29:51.160 yes our hot crime

01:29:52.560 summer series

01:29:53.180 was so popular

01:29:54.360 last year

01:29:55.420 we are bringing

01:29:56.300 it back

01:29:56.660 by popular

01:29:57.220 demand

01:29:57.620 and we kick

01:29:58.500 off this week

01:29:59.000 with a case

01:29:59.560 that has haunted

01:30:01.040 me and so

01:30:02.240 many

01:30:02.860 for years

01:30:04.200 I just

01:30:05.100 I cannot

01:30:06.040 get over it

01:30:06.940 I need

01:30:08.000 to understand

01:30:09.140 it

01:30:09.520 and that is

01:30:10.520 the case

01:30:10.860 of Christopher

01:30:11.340 Watts

01:30:11.780 in August

01:30:13.100 of 2018

01:30:13.860 Chris Watts

01:30:14.640 murdered

01:30:15.300 his pregnant

01:30:16.140 wife Shanann

01:30:16.880 along with

01:30:17.960 their two

01:30:18.440 little girls

01:30:19.320 the murders

01:30:20.480 were gruesome

01:30:21.860 and seemingly

01:30:22.880 out of the blue

01:30:24.040 the disturbing

01:30:25.140 details of this

01:30:25.860 murder

01:30:26.140 and the lack

01:30:27.200 of red flags

01:30:28.120 leading up to it

01:30:29.100 has haunted me

01:30:30.640 it makes it so

01:30:32.040 hard to understand

01:30:33.280 but I feel like

01:30:34.840 we must

01:30:35.480 we have to try

01:30:37.260 here to help us

01:30:38.580 dig into the details

01:30:39.440 and to answer

01:30:40.340 my questions

01:30:41.040 is retired

01:30:41.760 FBI profiler

01:30:42.980 Mary Ellen O'Toole

01:30:44.640 throughout her career

01:30:46.080 she has helped

01:30:46.620 capture

01:30:47.040 interview

01:30:47.500 and understand

01:30:48.080 some of the world's

01:30:49.360 most infamous

01:30:50.640 criminals

01:30:51.540 Ted Kaczynski

01:30:52.780 the Unabomber

01:30:53.660 the Green River Killer

01:30:55.140 the Zodiac Killer

01:30:56.200 and many more

01:30:57.280 she also worked

01:30:58.620 the Elizabeth Smart

01:30:59.720 and the Natalie Holloway

01:31:00.920 disappearances

01:31:01.560 the Columbine shootings

01:31:03.140 and many many other

01:31:04.520 very high profile cases

01:31:06.260 she's the perfect person

01:31:07.860 to help us break down

01:31:09.300 this case

01:31:10.020 Mary Ellen

01:31:18.120 great to see you again

01:31:18.900 how are you?

01:31:20.020 I'm good

01:31:20.740 how are you doing?

01:31:21.580 I'm doing great

01:31:22.980 thank you

01:31:23.560 I'm so glad

01:31:24.520 to have you here

01:31:25.280 this case

01:31:26.560 has been

01:31:27.600 haunting me

01:31:29.080 as of late

01:31:29.880 I got

01:31:30.980 onto the Chris Watts

01:31:32.660 story

01:31:33.140 because of the

01:31:34.100 Alec Murdoch case

01:31:35.260 and the use

01:31:36.720 of the term

01:31:37.260 family annihilators

01:31:38.440 and then we did

01:31:39.380 a whole show

01:31:40.120 on family annihilators

01:31:41.400 and we mentioned

01:31:42.420 Chris Watts

01:31:43.060 but I just

01:31:43.940 can't get past it

01:31:45.080 and I needed

01:31:46.040 to spend more

01:31:46.840 time on it

01:31:47.540 and I'm so glad

01:31:48.660 to have someone

01:31:49.180 with your expertise

01:31:49.860 here to help

01:31:50.820 walk us through it

01:31:52.080 it's just one

01:31:53.120 of the most

01:31:53.640 disturbing

01:31:54.320 crime cases

01:31:56.260 I've ever seen

01:31:57.500 and I'm into crime

01:31:58.880 I follow crime

01:32:00.080 but this one

01:32:00.960 is just

01:32:01.340 unforgettable

01:32:02.560 in its awfulness

01:32:04.000 you've lived

01:32:05.560 your life

01:32:05.980 fighting crime

01:32:06.660 and trying to figure

01:32:07.460 out criminals

01:32:08.560 professionally

01:32:09.240 is it

01:32:10.780 as bad

01:32:11.960 as I say

01:32:12.580 as somebody

01:32:13.600 who's seen

01:32:13.960 a lot more crime

01:32:14.520 than I have

01:32:15.300 is it a standout?

01:32:16.740 well I think

01:32:18.620 it's definitely

01:32:19.180 a standout

01:32:19.820 and I'll tell you

01:32:20.440 why

01:32:20.840 when you have

01:32:21.960 a case like this

01:32:23.180 where the parent

01:32:24.860 especially the

01:32:25.740 biological parent

01:32:26.860 goes after

01:32:27.880 their own children

01:32:28.780 it really

01:32:30.600 causes the case

01:32:32.280 to stand apart

01:32:33.420 from other crimes

01:32:34.360 I can understand

01:32:35.800 domestic violence

01:32:36.820 which is a partner

01:32:37.760 kills another partner

01:32:38.820 that's actually

01:32:39.560 fortunately

01:32:40.280 very common

01:32:41.080 very common

01:32:42.000 but when you

01:32:43.260 see someone

01:32:43.840 going after

01:32:44.700 their biological

01:32:45.680 children

01:32:46.640 purposely

01:32:47.440 that makes

01:32:49.760 it extremely

01:32:50.760 egregious

01:32:51.640 and then

01:32:52.200 the manner

01:32:52.840 in which

01:32:53.440 the children

01:32:55.200 were killed

01:32:55.840 here

01:32:56.200 and the manner

01:32:56.800 in which

01:32:57.180 their bodies

01:32:57.700 were disposed

01:32:58.500 of

01:32:58.740 in such a

01:32:59.220 callous

01:32:59.560 and cold

01:32:59.920 blooded way

01:33:00.520 it's really

01:33:01.500 disturbing

01:33:02.040 so let's go

01:33:04.340 through the story

01:33:05.000 when these two

01:33:06.560 met

01:33:06.940 they seemed

01:33:07.840 very much

01:33:08.540 in love

01:33:09.000 Shanon was

01:33:10.060 larger than life

01:33:11.460 very strong

01:33:12.080 personality

01:33:12.660 but had been

01:33:14.060 going through

01:33:14.420 a difficult time

01:33:15.120 she'd been

01:33:15.540 diagnosed with

01:33:16.280 lupus

01:33:16.820 and this woman

01:33:18.620 documented her

01:33:19.380 whole life

01:33:19.900 on Facebook

01:33:20.560 so we have a lot

01:33:21.560 of videotape of her

01:33:22.420 it makes you feel

01:33:23.100 like you kind of

01:33:23.700 knew her

01:33:24.060 here's a little bit

01:33:24.820 of Shanon

01:33:25.680 sharing the story

01:33:27.100 of how she

01:33:27.580 and Chris Watts

01:33:28.280 met

01:33:28.720 my friend

01:33:29.820 sent me a

01:33:30.300 French suggestion

01:33:30.800 for him

01:33:31.260 it was actually

01:33:31.880 his cousin's

01:33:32.700 wife

01:33:32.980 and I deleted

01:33:35.480 it

01:33:35.780 I was like

01:33:36.300 I'm not interested

01:33:37.380 I don't want

01:33:37.960 to meet a guy

01:33:38.460 bye bye

01:33:39.400 so I deleted

01:33:40.460 her friend

01:33:41.020 suggestion

01:33:41.380 for him

01:33:41.860 I was diagnosed

01:33:43.300 two months later

01:33:44.560 and I went

01:33:46.080 through one of

01:33:47.100 the I would say

01:33:48.040 darkest times

01:33:48.940 of my life

01:33:49.600 because things

01:33:50.260 just got

01:33:50.840 scarier

01:33:51.640 got a friend

01:33:52.600 suggestion

01:33:52.960 friend request

01:33:53.580 from Chris

01:33:54.040 I was in a

01:33:56.360 really really

01:33:57.060 really bad place

01:33:58.120 and I got a

01:33:59.040 friend request

01:34:00.220 from Chris

01:34:00.640 on Facebook

01:34:01.100 and I was like

01:34:01.640 oh what the heck

01:34:02.620 I'm never gonna

01:34:03.280 meet him

01:34:03.800 except

01:34:04.980 one thing led

01:34:06.480 to another

01:34:06.940 and

01:34:08.160 eight years

01:34:09.300 later

01:34:09.600 we have two

01:34:10.600 kids

01:34:10.960 we live in

01:34:11.840 Colorado

01:34:12.140 and he's

01:34:13.500 the best thing

01:34:14.100 that has

01:34:14.460 ever happened

01:34:15.740 to me

01:34:16.300 do you think

01:34:19.780 there's any

01:34:20.200 connection

01:34:20.640 between the fact

01:34:21.440 that she was

01:34:21.960 in a dark

01:34:22.600 place

01:34:23.040 physically

01:34:23.720 and mentally

01:34:24.320 when she

01:34:25.040 met this

01:34:25.480 guy

01:34:25.740 and the

01:34:26.680 ultimate fate

01:34:27.540 that she

01:34:28.260 met

01:34:28.540 could have

01:34:30.620 been

01:34:30.900 sometimes

01:34:31.620 our judgment

01:34:32.380 is colored

01:34:34.180 or flawed

01:34:34.920 by our

01:34:36.200 own emotional

01:34:36.800 experiences

01:34:37.480 like poor

01:34:38.040 health

01:34:38.340 so certainly

01:34:39.380 could have

01:34:39.860 been

01:34:40.100 their personalities

01:34:41.100 seem diametrically

01:34:42.740 opposite

01:34:43.260 and when you

01:34:45.740 go back

01:34:46.100 and you look

01:34:46.620 at how people

01:34:47.260 pair up

01:34:47.940 you wonder

01:34:49.380 how much

01:34:50.060 somebody

01:34:50.480 really is aware

01:34:51.640 of the other

01:34:52.040 person's personality

01:34:53.080 and how much

01:34:54.220 they're really

01:34:54.780 aware of

01:34:55.740 how that

01:34:56.520 person is

01:34:57.320 going to

01:34:57.580 handle life

01:34:58.300 and the

01:34:58.600 stressors of

01:34:59.260 life and

01:34:59.800 all the

01:35:00.420 things that

01:35:00.940 that life

01:35:02.240 brings in

01:35:02.840 terms of

01:35:03.180 challenges

01:35:03.620 and so

01:35:04.100 forth

01:35:04.380 and my

01:35:05.440 experience

01:35:05.860 over the

01:35:06.300 years

01:35:06.640 is that

01:35:07.220 we really

01:35:07.600 don't read

01:35:08.000 people very

01:35:08.560 well

01:35:08.880 we oftentimes

01:35:10.380 read what

01:35:11.020 we want to

01:35:11.460 see

01:35:11.760 and that

01:35:13.200 may have

01:35:13.720 been impacting

01:35:14.480 the relationship

01:35:15.260 here

01:35:15.760 and again

01:35:16.480 it's really

01:35:17.180 very common

01:35:17.840 they met

01:35:19.420 in 2010

01:35:20.040 they got

01:35:20.820 married in

01:35:21.340 2012

01:35:21.820 and she

01:35:23.000 was killed

01:35:23.540 in 2013

01:35:24.760 I mean

01:35:25.440 it all

01:35:26.080 happened so

01:35:26.660 fast

01:35:26.920 and look

01:35:27.260 I met

01:35:28.000 my husband

01:35:28.420 in July

01:35:28.980 of

01:35:29.300 sorry

01:35:31.380 okay

01:35:31.620 so it's

01:35:31.860 2018

01:35:32.240 that she

01:35:32.620 was killed

01:35:32.900 sorry

01:35:33.100 but I

01:35:34.340 met my

01:35:34.660 husband

01:35:34.860 in July

01:35:35.320 of

01:35:35.500 06

01:35:35.900 and we

01:35:36.240 were

01:35:36.400 married

01:35:36.700 by

01:35:37.020 March

01:35:37.580 of

01:35:37.960 08

01:35:38.420 so I'm

01:35:38.760 not saying

01:35:39.300 it can't

01:35:40.180 happen quickly

01:35:40.740 and work

01:35:41.140 out wonderfully

01:35:41.880 but I do

01:35:43.120 think there's

01:35:43.460 just a little

01:35:43.900 bit of a

01:35:44.260 warning here

01:35:44.840 where if

01:35:46.500 you meet

01:35:47.060 your partner

01:35:47.660 in a very

01:35:48.400 low time

01:35:49.200 in your

01:35:49.520 life

01:35:49.940 take the

01:35:51.140 time to

01:35:51.820 make sure

01:35:52.300 you're not

01:35:53.000 for emotional

01:35:54.440 or other

01:35:54.840 reasons

01:35:55.200 overlooking

01:35:56.040 potential

01:35:56.560 warning signs

01:35:57.420 of a

01:35:58.220 problem

01:35:58.560 I agree

01:36:01.240 with you

01:36:01.700 and that's

01:36:02.540 certainly

01:36:02.880 one of the

01:36:03.760 things I cover

01:36:04.620 with my

01:36:05.220 students in

01:36:06.000 class when we

01:36:06.720 study violent

01:36:07.340 crime is

01:36:08.000 what are all

01:36:09.320 of those

01:36:10.240 characteristics

01:36:11.320 that confuse

01:36:14.300 us that

01:36:15.580 impact our

01:36:16.820 ability to

01:36:17.420 read people

01:36:18.180 especially at a

01:36:19.420 time in our

01:36:19.880 life when it

01:36:20.620 really becomes

01:36:21.280 important what

01:36:22.000 do we look

01:36:22.580 at that really

01:36:23.720 don't tell us

01:36:24.500 the potential

01:36:25.100 for dangerousness

01:36:26.340 and what

01:36:27.140 should we be

01:36:27.940 looking at in

01:36:28.640 terms of

01:36:29.060 personality traits

01:36:30.160 and again I

01:36:31.040 think it's

01:36:31.380 really very

01:36:31.860 common but

01:36:32.660 we're not

01:36:33.060 raised and

01:36:33.740 we're not

01:36:34.100 trained to

01:36:34.640 know what

01:36:34.920 to look

01:36:35.220 for

01:36:35.580 they had a

01:36:37.980 baby pretty

01:36:38.820 soon into

01:36:39.420 the marriage

01:36:39.960 again married

01:36:41.000 on November

01:36:41.880 3rd 2012

01:36:42.720 December 17th

01:36:44.560 2013 first

01:36:45.580 child Bella

01:36:46.180 was born

01:36:47.100 and then

01:36:48.720 they suffered

01:36:49.520 a bankruptcy

01:36:50.100 and 2015

01:36:52.260 so two years

01:36:53.000 later their

01:36:53.540 second daughter

01:36:54.260 Cece her

01:36:55.920 name was

01:36:56.280 Celeste

01:36:56.880 was born

01:36:57.700 so two

01:36:58.080 babies in

01:36:58.580 a couple

01:36:58.860 of years

01:36:59.500 flash forward

01:37:00.840 to three

01:37:01.400 years after

01:37:02.180 that and

01:37:03.320 she's pregnant

01:37:03.920 with their

01:37:04.920 third child

01:37:05.720 a little boy

01:37:06.400 now anybody

01:37:07.320 who's had

01:37:08.060 two babies

01:37:09.100 in two years

01:37:09.860 in the marriage

01:37:10.440 it's stressful

01:37:11.580 and then they

01:37:12.160 have a bankruptcy

01:37:12.720 in the middle

01:37:13.200 of it

01:37:13.580 that doesn't

01:37:15.560 make you kill

01:37:16.100 anybody that

01:37:16.780 doesn't turn

01:37:17.300 anybody into

01:37:17.980 a murderer

01:37:18.520 so as you

01:37:19.100 look back at

01:37:19.620 this situation

01:37:20.140 knowing what

01:37:20.800 Chris Watts

01:37:21.240 would ultimately

01:37:21.660 do you know

01:37:23.360 do you have

01:37:23.580 any thoughts

01:37:24.080 on those years

01:37:24.940 any red

01:37:25.680 flags

01:37:26.440 anything

01:37:26.980 jump out

01:37:27.860 at you

01:37:28.260 well I

01:37:29.800 started to

01:37:30.300 look when

01:37:31.060 the case

01:37:31.400 even happened

01:37:31.940 started to

01:37:32.340 go back

01:37:32.640 and look

01:37:33.100 at when

01:37:34.980 did the

01:37:35.400 stressors

01:37:36.000 really start

01:37:37.120 these are

01:37:37.860 not cases

01:37:38.520 where someone

01:37:39.160 just snaps

01:37:39.920 and they decide

01:37:41.080 one morning

01:37:41.620 this is what

01:37:42.080 they're going

01:37:42.320 to do

01:37:42.560 they're going

01:37:42.960 to annihilate

01:37:43.640 their whole

01:37:44.020 family

01:37:44.420 there's

01:37:45.300 there's

01:37:45.860 thinking about

01:37:46.460 it beforehand

01:37:47.120 there's

01:37:47.520 planning about

01:37:48.220 it beforehand

01:37:48.780 even if

01:37:49.640 they don't

01:37:50.100 admit to it

01:37:50.860 so when

01:37:51.520 did the

01:37:51.820 stress

01:37:52.180 really

01:37:52.680 begin

01:37:53.180 and it

01:37:54.860 probably

01:37:55.380 really

01:37:55.980 started

01:37:56.500 to

01:37:56.740 compound

01:37:57.320 about

01:37:57.760 the

01:37:57.980 time

01:37:58.260 that

01:37:58.600 they

01:37:59.660 filed

01:38:00.020 for

01:38:00.240 bankruptcy

01:38:00.760 and then

01:38:02.460 when they

01:38:02.800 started

01:38:03.060 to have

01:38:03.440 the

01:38:03.620 children

01:38:03.980 we know

01:38:04.860 that those

01:38:05.320 are very

01:38:05.820 stressful

01:38:06.240 times

01:38:06.660 in

01:38:06.860 relationships

01:38:07.480 especially

01:38:08.120 depending

01:38:08.920 on the

01:38:09.360 person's

01:38:09.760 personality

01:38:10.300 if they

01:38:11.000 have a

01:38:11.300 difficult

01:38:12.380 time

01:38:13.020 dealing

01:38:13.740 with the

01:38:14.160 idea

01:38:14.520 that

01:38:14.920 we have

01:38:15.480 one more

01:38:15.780 baby

01:38:16.120 we have

01:38:16.640 one more

01:38:17.340 pressure

01:38:17.700 in my

01:38:18.080 life

01:38:18.420 especially

01:38:19.340 with those

01:38:20.140 kinds of

01:38:20.760 thought

01:38:21.260 processes

01:38:21.840 that can

01:38:22.580 be very

01:38:22.940 stressful

01:38:23.420 so now

01:38:24.000 you've

01:38:24.300 got

01:38:24.600 a second

01:38:25.740 child

01:38:26.200 and then

01:38:26.880 you have

01:38:27.880 surprisingly

01:38:28.520 now you

01:38:29.020 have a

01:38:29.340 third

01:38:29.600 child

01:38:30.020 and so

01:38:30.600 I think

01:38:31.260 the stress

01:38:31.920 and possibly

01:38:33.560 the resentment

01:38:34.360 had been

01:38:35.180 building

01:38:35.500 actually for

01:38:36.160 years

01:38:36.560 it didn't

01:38:37.060 just happen

01:38:37.740 days before

01:38:39.080 Chris committed

01:38:40.460 the murders

01:38:41.120 they

01:38:42.780 in June

01:38:43.640 of 2018

01:38:44.640 is when

01:38:45.980 everything

01:38:46.340 started

01:38:46.840 to take

01:38:47.600 a turn

01:38:48.080 for the

01:38:48.540 worst

01:38:48.840 that is

01:38:50.520 when he

01:38:50.940 met the

01:38:51.440 woman who

01:38:51.860 would become

01:38:52.280 his affair

01:38:52.760 partner

01:38:53.160 and it

01:38:54.220 is when

01:38:54.740 Shanon

01:38:55.300 told him

01:38:56.120 that she

01:38:57.820 was expecting

01:38:58.360 a third

01:38:58.880 child

01:38:59.240 which he

01:38:59.820 very clearly

01:39:00.620 did not

01:39:01.020 want

01:39:01.440 she of course

01:39:02.620 put the clip

01:39:03.260 on Facebook

01:39:03.800 where she

01:39:04.500 told him

01:39:05.220 the news

01:39:05.860 and any

01:39:06.220 outsider

01:39:06.940 could see

01:39:08.140 the guy

01:39:08.720 was not

01:39:09.500 thrilled

01:39:10.020 notwithstanding

01:39:11.280 what his

01:39:11.640 words were

01:39:12.180 here's a

01:39:12.680 bit of

01:39:13.180 that

01:39:13.440 she's wearing

01:39:19.380 a shirt

01:39:19.660 that reads

01:39:20.060 oops

01:39:20.360 we did

01:39:20.700 it again

01:39:21.160 and he

01:39:21.780 walks in

01:39:22.240 we did

01:39:22.680 it again

01:39:23.300 I like

01:39:26.280 that shirt

01:39:26.800 really

01:39:30.560 really

01:39:31.560 that's awesome

01:39:33.540 so pink means

01:39:40.840 that's just a test

01:39:42.160 I know

01:39:42.540 it's just a

01:39:43.160 pink is gonna be

01:39:43.960 girls

01:39:44.300 I don't know

01:39:45.160 just a test

01:39:47.260 that's awesome

01:39:48.360 I guess

01:39:54.300 I guess

01:39:55.340 when you

01:39:56.120 want to

01:39:56.460 it happens

01:39:57.080 wow

01:39:58.760 that bit

01:40:02.280 at the end

01:40:02.680 there

01:40:02.940 right

01:40:03.560 that bit

01:40:03.860 at the end

01:40:04.260 where they

01:40:04.520 wow

01:40:06.040 as he's

01:40:06.820 looking at

01:40:07.160 the pregnancy

01:40:07.540 test

01:40:07.800 and not

01:40:08.100 to mention

01:40:08.520 that's

01:40:09.460 awesome

01:40:09.920 that's

01:40:10.680 awesome

01:40:11.080 that's

01:40:11.720 something

01:40:11.920 you say

01:40:12.260 when your

01:40:12.560 kid

01:40:12.740 is like

01:40:13.140 you know

01:40:13.960 I got

01:40:14.720 on first

01:40:15.140 base

01:40:15.540 you know

01:40:15.960 you find

01:40:16.300 you're

01:40:16.460 having

01:40:16.580 a child

01:40:17.080 it's

01:40:17.420 it

01:40:17.900 tends

01:40:18.260 to be

01:40:18.640 in a

01:40:18.860 very

01:40:19.100 emotional

01:40:19.760 very

01:40:21.340 moving

01:40:21.960 moment

01:40:22.480 none

01:40:22.820 of

01:40:22.940 which

01:40:23.080 was

01:40:23.220 present

01:40:23.520 there

01:40:23.780 no

01:40:25.640 but

01:40:25.860 you know

01:40:26.160 I

01:40:26.680 looked

01:40:27.020 at

01:40:27.180 that

01:40:27.520 again

01:40:27.880 I

01:40:28.040 remember

01:40:28.260 seeing

01:40:28.600 that

01:40:28.860 years

01:40:29.200 ago

01:40:29.400 but I

01:40:29.680 also

01:40:30.020 looked

01:40:30.560 at

01:40:30.860 his

01:40:31.080 confessions

01:40:31.780 and

01:40:32.820 he

01:40:33.160 is

01:40:33.380 one

01:40:33.880 of

01:40:33.960 the

01:40:34.060 most

01:40:34.340 subdued

01:40:35.160 low-key

01:40:35.840 people

01:40:36.440 in

01:40:37.840 those

01:40:38.040 confessions

01:40:38.640 so I

01:40:39.360 think

01:40:39.480 that's

01:40:39.740 his

01:40:39.900 personality

01:40:40.460 he's

01:40:41.160 not

01:40:41.400 going

01:40:41.700 to

01:40:41.920 be

01:40:42.300 extremely

01:40:43.260 expressive

01:40:44.220 it's

01:40:44.720 just

01:40:44.880 not

01:40:45.100 part

01:40:45.340 of

01:40:45.460 who

01:40:45.600 he

01:40:45.800 is

01:40:46.080 and

01:40:46.280 so

01:40:46.580 that

01:40:47.160 reaction

01:40:47.660 to

01:40:48.040 the

01:40:48.280 news

01:40:48.700 that

01:40:49.160 Shanann

01:40:50.120 is

01:40:50.280 going

01:40:50.440 to

01:40:50.500 have

01:40:50.840 a

01:40:51.200 third

01:40:51.420 baby

01:40:51.900 is

01:40:52.620 pretty

01:40:53.900 much

01:40:54.160 in

01:40:54.320 keeping

01:40:54.620 with

01:40:55.120 his

01:40:55.500 very

01:40:56.360 low-key

01:40:57.280 almost

01:40:58.460 at times

01:40:59.180 depressive

01:40:59.800 personality

01:41:01.220 it's

01:41:01.660 the

01:41:01.840 common

01:41:03.080 at the

01:41:03.580 end

01:41:03.940 when he

01:41:04.580 says

01:41:04.840 words

01:41:05.160 to the

01:41:05.500 effect

01:41:05.900 something

01:41:06.460 about

01:41:06.760 when

01:41:06.960 you

01:41:07.080 want

01:41:07.340 something

01:41:07.820 meaning

01:41:08.400 when

01:41:08.820 she

01:41:09.040 wants

01:41:09.420 it

01:41:09.620 he

01:41:10.760 did

01:41:11.100 not

01:41:11.300 make

01:41:11.480 a

01:41:11.640 comment

01:41:11.900 about

01:41:12.220 what

01:41:12.440 he

01:41:12.740 wanted

01:41:13.120 so I

01:41:13.800 thought

01:41:13.980 the

01:41:14.260 affect

01:41:14.660 was

01:41:15.000 keeping

01:41:15.300 with

01:41:15.700 how

01:41:15.920 he

01:41:16.160 is

01:41:16.620 but

01:41:17.100 it

01:41:17.180 was

01:41:17.280 the

01:41:17.440 final

01:41:17.700 comment

01:41:18.160 that

01:41:18.460 was

01:41:18.840 telling

01:41:19.860 to

01:41:20.120 me

01:41:20.440 is

01:41:21.740 there

01:41:22.260 any

01:41:22.560 reason

01:41:23.100 to

01:41:23.480 be

01:41:23.760 concerned

01:41:24.320 if

01:41:24.820 you

01:41:25.020 partner

01:41:25.360 up

01:41:25.640 with

01:41:25.800 somebody

01:41:26.180 who

01:41:26.380 has

01:41:26.680 that

01:41:27.000 flat

01:41:28.020 affect

01:41:28.620 as

01:41:29.140 a

01:41:29.260 default

01:41:29.700 like

01:41:30.240 they

01:41:30.520 have

01:41:30.720 difficulty

01:41:31.260 feeling

01:41:32.540 emotion

01:41:33.060 whether

01:41:34.760 it's

01:41:34.980 great

01:41:35.200 love

01:41:35.640 or

01:41:36.180 great

01:41:36.640 hesitancy

01:41:38.240 in

01:41:38.740 committing

01:41:39.340 a

01:41:39.560 murder

01:41:39.880 you

01:41:40.280 know

01:41:40.340 they're

01:41:40.660 not

01:41:40.880 built

01:41:41.900 in a

01:41:42.180 way

01:41:42.300 that

01:41:42.500 is

01:41:42.800 necessarily

01:41:43.240 safe

01:41:43.780 well

01:41:46.180 that's

01:41:46.420 a good

01:41:46.660 point

01:41:47.120 but

01:41:47.480 I

01:41:47.800 think

01:41:48.080 with

01:41:48.440 the

01:41:49.240 whole

01:41:49.480 idea

01:41:49.980 of

01:41:50.240 being

01:41:50.400 able

01:41:50.700 to

01:41:50.880 understand

01:41:51.260 your

01:41:51.480 partner

01:41:51.980 or

01:41:53.180 your

01:41:53.740 family

01:41:54.140 members

01:41:54.640 you

01:41:55.380 know

01:41:55.940 you

01:41:56.080 have

01:41:56.300 to

01:41:56.420 really

01:41:56.720 look

01:41:57.100 at

01:41:57.280 them

01:41:57.560 and

01:41:57.840 be

01:41:59.040 a

01:41:59.400 pretty

01:41:59.980 good

01:42:00.240 judge

01:42:00.620 of

01:42:00.780 character

01:42:01.100 on

01:42:01.300 a

01:42:01.440 daily

01:42:01.680 basis

01:42:02.160 and

01:42:02.500 not

01:42:03.080 you

01:42:03.680 know

01:42:03.820 just

01:42:04.300 every

01:42:04.640 couple

01:42:04.960 of

01:42:05.220 months

01:42:05.560 or

01:42:05.700 something

01:42:05.900 like

01:42:06.120 that

01:42:06.360 so

01:42:06.640 you

01:42:07.520 I

01:42:08.020 think

01:42:08.120 it's

01:42:08.240 important

01:42:08.600 to

01:42:08.840 look

01:42:09.060 at

01:42:09.420 whether

01:42:10.080 or

01:42:10.340 not

01:42:10.540 they're

01:42:10.740 becoming

01:42:11.220 more

01:42:11.520 depressed

01:42:12.220 are

01:42:12.500 they

01:42:12.660 talking

01:42:12.960 about

01:42:13.260 suicide

01:42:13.780 are

01:42:14.120 they

01:42:14.300 talking

01:42:14.660 about

01:42:15.100 leaving

01:42:16.040 the

01:42:16.280 family

01:42:16.700 are

01:42:17.000 they

01:42:17.180 talking

01:42:17.540 about

01:42:17.980 not

01:42:18.640 wanting

01:42:18.880 to be

01:42:19.120 a part

01:42:19.640 of

01:42:19.740 the

01:42:19.860 family

01:42:20.160 again

01:42:20.540 so

01:42:20.820 for

01:42:21.760 me

01:42:21.960 there

01:42:22.140 are

01:42:22.220 a lot

01:42:22.440 of

01:42:22.560 puzzle

01:42:22.820 pieces

01:42:23.200 that

01:42:23.500 are

01:42:23.600 likely

01:42:23.900 missing

01:42:24.400 from

01:42:24.780 this

01:42:25.000 family

01:42:25.320 that

01:42:25.680 were

01:42:26.200 never

01:42:26.420 posted

01:42:26.840 on

01:42:27.100 Facebook

01:42:27.560 that

01:42:29.080 would

01:42:29.320 give

01:42:29.600 us

01:42:29.780 more

01:42:30.020 indications

01:42:30.600 that

01:42:31.120 he

01:42:31.640 had

01:42:31.800 started

01:42:32.120 to

01:42:32.360 check

01:42:32.600 out

01:42:33.040 but

01:42:33.400 with

01:42:33.600 that

01:42:33.780 checking

01:42:34.180 out

01:42:34.620 was

01:42:34.940 there

01:42:35.080 any

01:42:35.460 indication

01:42:36.140 that

01:42:37.340 that

01:42:37.720 with

01:42:38.020 that

01:42:38.740 decision

01:42:42.220 could

01:42:42.860 that

01:42:43.100 have

01:42:43.320 meant

01:42:43.780 that

01:42:44.240 that

01:42:44.460 anger

01:42:44.880 towards

01:42:45.420 Shanann

01:42:45.820 was

01:42:46.080 building

01:42:46.600 and

01:42:46.900 building

01:42:47.260 and

01:42:47.500 building

01:42:47.800 because

01:42:48.460 looking

01:42:48.920 at

01:42:49.200 Chris

01:42:49.640 you

01:42:50.220 don't

01:42:50.400 see

01:42:50.640 an

01:42:50.780 angry

01:42:51.080 man

01:42:51.560 but

01:42:52.240 that

01:42:52.400 means

01:42:52.640 he's

01:42:52.860 internalized

01:42:53.520 it

01:42:53.640 but

01:42:53.800 what

01:42:53.980 did

01:42:54.120 she

01:42:54.340 see

01:42:54.640 on

01:42:54.800 a

01:42:54.940 daily

01:42:55.160 basis

01:42:55.700 what

01:42:56.260 did

01:42:56.460 she

01:42:56.680 see

01:42:57.120 that

01:42:57.680 many

01:42:58.980 of

01:42:59.140 us

01:42:59.300 would

01:42:59.460 have

01:42:59.560 just

01:42:59.760 looked

01:43:00.000 at

01:43:00.180 and

01:43:00.320 said

01:43:00.460 he's

01:43:00.900 just

01:43:01.100 having

01:43:01.380 a

01:43:01.540 bad

01:43:01.720 day

01:43:01.960 and

01:43:02.160 sometimes

01:43:03.240 that's

01:43:03.680 the

01:43:03.840 case

01:43:04.140 but

01:43:04.600 sometimes

01:43:05.000 it's

01:43:05.280 not

01:43:05.600 the

01:43:05.800 case

01:43:06.140 and

01:43:06.400 those

01:43:06.920 are

01:43:07.360 the

01:43:07.480 kind

01:43:07.640 of

01:43:07.740 indicators

01:43:08.240 that

01:43:08.840 you

01:43:08.980 want

01:43:09.160 to

01:43:09.280 look

01:43:09.460 for

01:43:09.920 he

01:43:12.100 to

01:43:12.640 me

01:43:13.100 everything

01:43:14.080 seems

01:43:14.500 to go

01:43:14.820 downhill

01:43:15.180 as soon

01:43:15.580 as he

01:43:15.940 meets

01:43:16.480 this

01:43:16.660 other

01:43:16.860 woman

01:43:17.120 like

01:43:17.440 his

01:43:17.940 be

01:43:18.200 to

01:43:18.860 me

01:43:19.120 based

01:43:19.520 on

01:43:19.640 her

01:43:19.820 Facebook

01:43:20.240 based

01:43:20.640 on

01:43:20.760 the

01:43:20.880 Netflix

01:43:21.160 documentary

01:43:21.740 which

01:43:22.180 is

01:43:22.420 very

01:43:22.900 worth

01:43:23.100 your

01:43:23.220 time

01:43:23.560 on

01:43:24.520 this

01:43:24.660 whole

01:43:24.820 show

01:43:24.980 it's

01:43:25.120 called

01:43:25.300 American

01:43:25.780 Murder

01:43:26.100 The

01:43:26.280 Family

01:43:26.520 Next

01:43:26.780 Door

01:43:27.060 he

01:43:29.340 was

01:43:29.700 kind

01:43:30.080 of

01:43:30.280 the

01:43:31.380 beta

01:43:31.680 in

01:43:32.080 the

01:43:32.200 relationship

01:43:32.680 I

01:43:33.040 mean

01:43:33.160 she

01:43:33.380 was

01:43:33.560 the

01:43:33.720 alpha

01:43:34.040 and

01:43:35.140 in

01:43:35.820 control

01:43:36.180 about

01:43:36.480 most

01:43:36.720 of

01:43:36.820 the

01:43:36.920 decisions

01:43:37.240 they

01:43:37.400 were

01:43:37.500 making

01:43:37.760 and

01:43:37.940 then

01:43:38.140 he

01:43:38.300 met

01:43:38.480 this

01:43:38.640 other

01:43:38.840 woman

01:43:39.140 and

01:43:40.000 really

01:43:40.380 started

01:43:40.720 distancing

01:43:41.120 himself

01:43:41.620 and

01:43:41.880 started

01:43:42.220 it

01:43:42.860 seemed

01:43:43.180 to me

01:43:43.420 like

01:43:43.620 a

01:43:43.820 hatred

01:43:44.180 started

01:43:44.560 to

01:43:44.800 brew

01:43:45.060 for

01:43:46.100 Shanann

01:43:46.780 the

01:43:46.960 other

01:43:47.140 woman's

01:43:48.100 name

01:43:48.340 is

01:43:48.560 Nicole

01:43:49.100 Kessinger

01:43:49.700 she

01:43:50.580 worked

01:43:50.980 like

01:43:51.380 he

01:43:51.560 did

01:43:51.780 at

01:43:52.160 this

01:43:53.000 petroleum

01:43:53.480 company

01:43:54.520 we're

01:43:55.480 showing

01:43:55.680 a

01:43:55.820 picture

01:43:56.020 of her

01:43:56.280 on

01:43:56.380 the

01:43:56.480 board

01:43:56.640 now

01:43:57.000 and

01:43:57.500 I

01:43:57.600 mean

01:43:57.740 they

01:43:58.000 met

01:43:58.240 in

01:43:58.380 June

01:43:58.520 of

01:43:58.660 2018

01:43:59.140 it

01:44:00.040 was

01:44:00.320 August

01:44:00.760 13

01:44:01.440 2018

01:44:02.080 that

01:44:03.020 he

01:44:03.160 committed

01:44:03.520 a

01:44:04.500 triple

01:44:04.740 murder

01:44:05.100 of

01:44:06.320 his

01:44:06.500 entire

01:44:07.000 family

01:44:07.340 I

01:44:07.460 mean

01:44:07.580 two

01:44:08.280 months

01:44:08.800 Mary

01:44:09.360 how

01:44:09.700 do

01:44:10.400 we

01:44:10.520 even

01:44:10.660 start

01:44:10.940 to

01:44:11.160 understand

01:44:11.600 that

01:44:12.000 well

01:44:13.760 his

01:44:14.360 girlfriend

01:44:14.780 the

01:44:15.000 woman

01:44:15.180 that

01:44:15.360 he

01:44:15.480 met

01:44:15.680 and

01:44:15.800 started

01:44:16.020 to

01:44:16.160 have

01:44:16.260 the

01:44:16.440 affair

01:44:16.820 with

01:44:17.160 she

01:44:18.320 was

01:44:18.520 the

01:44:18.660 conduit

01:44:19.660 he

01:44:19.860 was

01:44:20.100 already

01:44:20.660 in

01:44:20.940 that

01:44:21.080 emotional

01:44:21.580 state

01:44:22.120 my

01:44:22.600 sense

01:44:22.960 is

01:44:23.280 that

01:44:23.580 he

01:44:23.780 was

01:44:23.980 already

01:44:24.420 feeling

01:44:24.860 incredible

01:44:25.800 animosity

01:44:26.920 towards

01:44:27.560 Shanann

01:44:27.900 and she

01:44:28.240 didn't

01:44:28.480 realize

01:44:28.980 it

01:44:29.240 he

01:44:29.940 meets

01:44:30.760 this

01:44:31.000 woman

01:44:31.340 and

01:44:31.620 it

01:44:31.760 could

01:44:31.920 have

01:44:32.060 been

01:44:32.360 Susie

01:44:33.060 Smith

01:44:33.380 it

01:44:33.700 could

01:44:33.900 have

01:44:34.020 been

01:44:34.380 you

01:44:35.480 know

01:44:35.700 Ann

01:44:36.500 Jones

01:44:36.960 but

01:44:37.260 he

01:44:37.440 meets

01:44:37.740 her

01:44:38.240 and

01:44:39.140 she

01:44:40.120 responds

01:44:40.980 to him

01:44:41.440 and they

01:44:41.640 begin

01:44:41.900 to have

01:44:42.220 that

01:44:42.380 relationship

01:44:42.980 I

01:44:43.400 don't

01:44:43.600 think

01:44:43.800 it

01:44:43.900 was

01:44:44.020 specifically

01:44:44.620 her

01:44:45.500 but

01:44:46.060 I

01:44:46.180 think

01:44:46.360 he

01:44:46.480 was

01:44:46.640 ready

01:44:47.060 at

01:44:47.320 that

01:44:47.520 point

01:44:47.860 so

01:44:48.080 I

01:44:48.200 think

01:44:48.380 it

01:44:48.500 had

01:44:48.620 been

01:44:48.780 building

01:44:49.060 up

01:44:49.440 that's

01:44:50.740 interesting

01:44:51.100 so

01:44:51.340 it

01:44:51.420 could

01:44:51.500 have

01:44:51.580 been

01:44:51.660 anyway

01:44:51.840 because

01:44:52.040 we'll

01:44:52.500 talk

01:44:57.900 questions

01:44:58.340 about

01:44:58.620 whether

01:44:58.940 she

01:44:59.560 did

01:44:59.820 something

01:45:00.200 intentionally

01:45:00.740 to

01:45:01.040 encourage

01:45:01.480 this

01:45:01.840 well

01:45:04.360 I

01:45:04.480 think

01:45:04.660 I

01:45:04.800 would

01:45:04.940 be

01:45:05.080 really

01:45:05.360 careful

01:45:05.860 as

01:45:06.340 a

01:45:06.800 profiler

01:45:07.660 to

01:45:08.560 credit

01:45:08.960 her

01:45:09.360 with

01:45:09.980 any

01:45:10.380 involvement

01:45:10.860 in

01:45:11.140 this

01:45:11.360 case

01:45:11.820 until

01:45:13.680 I

01:45:13.940 had

01:45:14.080 the

01:45:14.240 opportunity

01:45:14.700 to

01:45:15.040 sit

01:45:15.220 down

01:45:15.400 and

01:45:15.540 talk

01:45:15.780 to

01:45:15.920 her

01:45:16.080 and

01:45:16.260 look

01:45:16.460 at

01:45:16.580 her

01:45:16.680 personality

01:45:18.860 look

01:45:19.680 at

01:45:19.800 the

01:45:19.920 kinds

01:45:20.180 of

01:45:20.300 things

01:45:20.560 that

01:45:20.860 you

01:45:21.300 know

01:45:21.440 that

01:45:21.660 kind

01:45:22.200 of

01:45:22.320 really

01:45:22.520 made

01:45:22.800 her

01:45:23.040 tick

01:45:23.320 on

01:45:23.840 a

01:45:23.980 daily

01:45:24.220 basis

01:45:24.660 to

01:45:25.460 see

01:45:25.720 whether

01:45:26.100 or

01:45:26.340 not

01:45:26.600 her

01:45:27.900 personality

01:45:28.300 lends

01:45:28.780 itself

01:45:29.220 to

01:45:29.820 being

01:45:30.020 co-opted

01:45:30.720 like

01:45:30.880 this

01:45:31.080 because

01:45:31.500 if

01:45:31.760 it

01:45:31.940 did

01:45:32.240 we

01:45:32.620 have

01:45:32.740 to

01:45:32.840 look

01:45:33.060 at

01:45:33.220 it

01:45:33.300 and

01:45:33.380 say

01:45:33.540 they

01:45:33.760 just

01:45:34.000 met

01:45:34.480 she

01:45:37.400 starts

01:45:37.820 to

01:45:38.000 have

01:45:38.240 this

01:45:38.460 relationship

01:45:39.100 which

01:45:39.620 she's

01:45:39.920 probably

01:45:40.220 very

01:45:40.540 excited

01:45:41.000 about

01:45:41.420 she's

01:45:41.960 even

01:45:42.240 looking

01:45:42.760 at

01:45:42.980 wedding

01:45:43.400 dresses

01:45:43.880 and

01:45:44.920 then

01:45:45.440 to

01:45:45.620 jump

01:45:45.800 to

01:45:45.940 the

01:45:46.100 conclusion

01:45:46.640 that

01:45:47.300 now

01:45:47.840 she

01:45:48.080 morphs

01:45:48.660 into

01:45:48.940 this

01:45:49.420 co-conspirator

01:45:50.460 to

01:45:51.000 help

01:45:51.340 him

01:45:51.800 you know

01:45:52.600 annihilate

01:45:53.120 his

01:45:53.300 whole

01:45:53.460 family

01:45:53.820 is

01:45:54.740 a

01:45:55.100 little

01:45:55.220 bit

01:45:55.400 too

01:45:55.600 much

01:45:55.860 for

01:45:56.000 me

01:45:56.140 at

01:45:56.260 this

01:45:56.440 point

01:45:56.600 I

01:45:56.740 think

01:45:56.880 she

01:45:57.040 got

01:45:57.240 caught

01:45:57.480 up

01:45:57.640 in

01:45:57.740 this

01:45:57.920 in

01:45:58.180 the

01:45:58.420 excitement

01:45:59.940 of

01:46:00.400 having

01:46:00.660 this

01:46:00.880 relationship

01:46:01.540 and

01:46:02.440 it

01:46:02.760 really

01:46:03.000 is

01:46:03.300 hard

01:46:03.640 when

01:46:04.040 something

01:46:04.280 like

01:46:04.500 this

01:46:04.720 happens

01:46:05.180 just

01:46:06.980 like

01:46:07.180 Scott

01:46:07.480 Peterson

01:46:07.840 not

01:46:08.280 to

01:46:08.580 say

01:46:09.000 oh

01:46:09.240 she

01:46:09.400 had

01:46:09.620 to

01:46:09.760 know

01:46:09.980 or

01:46:10.220 she

01:46:10.440 had

01:46:10.660 to

01:46:11.000 encourage

01:46:12.020 him

01:46:12.260 that

01:46:12.840 is

01:46:13.040 a

01:46:13.220 big

01:46:13.440 step

01:46:13.860 to

01:46:14.100 say

01:46:14.400 that

01:46:14.700 the

01:46:14.860 partner

01:46:15.200 encouraged

01:46:15.920 Chris

01:46:18.160 in

01:46:18.400 something

01:46:18.680 like

01:46:18.960 this

01:46:19.200 I'm

01:46:19.380 not

01:46:19.540 sure

01:46:19.700 that

01:46:19.880 that's

01:46:20.160 there

01:46:20.460 and

01:46:21.160 we

01:46:21.260 know

01:46:21.420 that

01:46:21.540 in

01:46:21.660 Scott

01:46:21.800 Peterson

01:46:22.100 Amber

01:46:22.400 Fry

01:46:22.660 did

01:46:23.160 not

01:46:23.440 know

01:46:23.700 anything

01:46:24.120 about

01:46:24.740 Lacey

01:46:25.180 Peterson

01:46:25.580 she

01:46:26.020 was

01:46:26.460 truly

01:46:26.680 caught

01:46:26.960 off

01:46:27.120 guard

01:46:27.280 that

01:46:27.420 he

01:46:27.480 was

01:46:27.600 married

01:46:27.840 at

01:46:27.980 all

01:46:28.220 had

01:46:28.440 no

01:46:28.600 idea

01:46:28.820 and as soon

01:46:29.100 as soon as she found out she went to cops work with them and as part of the reason he is now in prison

01:46:32.600 she was a good guy in the whole thing this woman I don't know and she definitely misled the cops she she tried to tell them oh I didn't know he was married and then they found Google searches by her you know like does the mistress ever get the man I mean she knew she knew that he was married and downplayed her knowledge with the police it doesn't mean she encouraged a murder a triple quadruple murder but it's one of the reasons why this woman has now had to change her name

01:46:58.520 she's effectively in witness protection because people blamed her

01:47:02.220 so at the same time we see that

01:47:05.660 lackluster

01:47:06.900 I'm having the third baby reaction

01:47:09.280 Shanon posted

01:47:11.200 one of many videos of the daughters

01:47:13.720 talking about their dad

01:47:15.580 Chris

01:47:16.040 on Facebook

01:47:17.360 and I mean you could find

01:47:18.640 any number of these

01:47:19.980 but every video

01:47:21.200 between him and the children showed

01:47:23.420 a loving interaction

01:47:24.980 what looked like

01:47:25.880 a loving interaction

01:47:26.940 this is one that

01:47:28.200 you know

01:47:28.640 really

01:47:29.560 pulls on the heartstrings

01:47:30.780 because you know what's going to happen to this young girl

01:47:32.400 but here's Bella

01:47:33.080 on June 14th 2018

01:47:35.480 four years old at the time

01:47:37.060 singing a song about how much she loved him

01:47:38.800 my daddy is a hero

01:47:42.500 he helps me grow up strong

01:47:46.020 he helps me

01:47:48.320 um snuggle too

01:47:50.680 he reads me books

01:47:54.080 he ties my shoes

01:47:56.080 if you're a hero

01:47:59.700 blue and blue

01:48:02.180 my daddy daddy

01:48:04.920 I love you

01:48:06.780 oh my god

01:48:10.020 I don't

01:48:11.300 this is why I'm so obsessed

01:48:13.220 with this case

01:48:13.840 how does someone

01:48:15.680 who we have to

01:48:16.780 acknowledge

01:48:17.420 is a human being

01:48:19.160 who has seen that video

01:48:22.000 and has created

01:48:23.180 and loved that child

01:48:24.140 for four years

01:48:24.980 within two months of that

01:48:27.080 kill her

01:48:28.680 murder her

01:48:29.380 and dump her

01:48:30.220 in an oil tank

01:48:31.140 how

01:48:31.720 how

01:48:32.480 well

01:48:35.080 a couple of things

01:48:35.940 I think probably

01:48:36.700 are going on

01:48:37.540 um

01:48:38.460 I think

01:48:40.180 he likely

01:48:40.940 didn't respond

01:48:41.780 the way most people

01:48:42.600 would have

01:48:43.080 to that video

01:48:44.040 um

01:48:45.060 the video probably

01:48:45.960 added more pressure

01:48:47.000 to him

01:48:47.740 to feel

01:48:48.780 that he needed

01:48:49.840 to stay with the family

01:48:50.940 when in fact

01:48:51.520 he did not want

01:48:52.460 to stay with the family

01:48:53.360 he may have even

01:48:54.460 resented that

01:48:55.200 that video

01:48:56.220 seeing that

01:48:57.040 because he was ready

01:48:57.780 to go

01:48:58.260 he was ready

01:48:59.940 to start life

01:49:00.700 over again

01:49:01.420 he had new plans

01:49:02.840 and so

01:49:03.800 he was emotionally

01:49:05.000 separating himself

01:49:06.060 from his family

01:49:06.960 at a certain point

01:49:07.940 and when you do that

01:49:09.520 to be pulled back

01:49:10.920 into the family

01:49:11.700 once you've decided

01:49:12.560 I'm done

01:49:13.120 it's over

01:49:13.760 I'm

01:49:14.360 I'm

01:49:14.720 I'm just

01:49:15.220 gonna wrap it up

01:49:16.440 um

01:49:17.000 that can also

01:49:18.020 contribute to the anger

01:49:19.600 and with

01:49:21.000 with somebody like

01:49:22.040 with uh

01:49:22.980 Chris

01:49:23.580 who internalizes

01:49:25.060 that anger

01:49:25.620 it's really hard

01:49:26.920 to measure it

01:49:28.160 because usually

01:49:28.840 people

01:49:29.320 express their anger

01:49:30.660 they yell

01:49:31.520 they scream

01:49:32.100 their face

01:49:32.520 gets red

01:49:33.020 that doesn't seem

01:49:34.220 to be the case

01:49:34.860 with him

01:49:35.260 but I'm also

01:49:36.140 not sure

01:49:36.640 that he wasn't

01:49:37.540 looking at those

01:49:38.280 videos thinking

01:49:39.120 I'm separating

01:49:41.040 enough with this

01:49:41.980 I'm moving on

01:49:42.700 with my life

01:49:43.320 I'm starting

01:49:43.840 over again

01:49:44.540 so looking

01:49:45.860 at your kids

01:49:46.820 maybe

01:49:47.540 may have been

01:49:48.160 certainly a part

01:49:48.900 of that

01:49:49.320 this is interesting

01:49:51.320 because this is

01:49:52.320 in no way

01:49:52.820 to blame

01:49:53.320 Shanon

01:49:53.760 for anything

01:49:54.340 that happened

01:49:54.760 to her

01:49:55.100 but

01:49:55.840 there is a chance

01:49:57.680 it was an emotional

01:49:58.560 manipulation

01:50:00.660 the affair started

01:50:01.420 in June of 18

01:50:02.220 that's when this video

01:50:03.520 was made and posted

01:50:04.440 and there was another

01:50:05.820 video posted by Shanon

01:50:07.040 right around this same time

01:50:08.220 talking about

01:50:09.400 you know

01:50:10.540 how you're like

01:50:11.080 you're our rock

01:50:12.020 you're the great

01:50:12.660 and I did wonder

01:50:13.920 is it any accident

01:50:15.220 she's trying to build him

01:50:16.280 up in this way

01:50:17.080 right around this time

01:50:19.000 hold on a second

01:50:19.500 we have it here

01:50:20.420 it's a Father's Day message

01:50:22.340 okay

01:50:23.080 and in it

01:50:23.900 she's saying

01:50:24.440 Chris

01:50:24.900 we're so incredibly

01:50:26.320 blessed to have you

01:50:27.340 you do so much

01:50:28.480 every day for us

01:50:29.420 you take such great care

01:50:30.700 of us

01:50:31.200 you're the reason

01:50:32.320 I was brave enough

01:50:33.020 to agree to number three

01:50:34.340 from laundry

01:50:35.500 to kids showers

01:50:36.420 you're incredible

01:50:37.660 and we are so lucky

01:50:39.080 to have you

01:50:39.600 in our life

01:50:40.440 happy Father's Day

01:50:41.800 now to me

01:50:43.180 Mary Ellen

01:50:43.560 this suggests

01:50:44.340 this is over the top

01:50:45.840 you know

01:50:46.420 this is just over the

01:50:47.980 it makes it

01:50:48.800 sound like she's trying

01:50:49.940 to prove something

01:50:50.740 or maybe manipulate a bit

01:50:52.160 or maybe

01:50:54.360 in her way

01:50:55.440 appeal

01:50:56.140 to him

01:50:57.360 so

01:50:57.960 for example

01:50:58.880 if you're in a

01:50:59.880 relationship

01:51:00.340 with someone

01:51:01.080 and you try

01:51:02.420 to have a conversation

01:51:03.420 with them

01:51:04.040 let's fix things

01:51:05.040 let's make this better

01:51:07.200 and your partner

01:51:08.480 shuts down

01:51:09.160 on you

01:51:09.660 they won't talk

01:51:11.480 or they'll just answer

01:51:12.620 in one or two words

01:51:14.060 so you can't have

01:51:15.000 a conversation

01:51:15.700 about it

01:51:16.540 they just emotionally

01:51:18.420 turn off

01:51:19.120 when that happens

01:51:20.480 you have to have

01:51:21.360 an outlet

01:51:22.700 you have to have

01:51:23.460 a way

01:51:24.020 you feel

01:51:25.040 to be able

01:51:25.740 to express to them

01:51:26.820 how you feel

01:51:27.800 so you can do

01:51:28.340 something

01:51:28.860 and Shanann

01:51:30.020 was probably feeling

01:51:30.780 at that point

01:51:31.540 she was losing Chris

01:51:33.140 and he wasn't talking

01:51:34.000 to her about it

01:51:34.740 so I could see

01:51:35.900 where she would

01:51:37.000 naturally

01:51:37.600 put something up

01:51:39.940 on Facebook

01:51:40.520 and try to appeal

01:51:41.940 to him that way

01:51:42.900 but you're right

01:51:43.500 it does seem

01:51:44.360 over the top

01:51:45.020 but she may have been

01:51:46.020 kind of feeling

01:51:46.980 at her last resort

01:51:48.980 was to get his attention

01:51:50.320 and hey

01:51:50.720 please listen

01:51:51.960 to how we're feeling

01:51:53.000 about you

01:51:53.500 we don't want

01:51:54.020 for the next

01:51:56.280 two months

01:51:56.880 she would ramp

01:51:57.760 that up

01:51:58.300 as any spouse

01:51:59.380 might

01:51:59.740 you could tell

01:52:01.060 that Shanann

01:52:02.040 felt him

01:52:02.700 distancing himself

01:52:03.740 from her

01:52:04.320 she wound up

01:52:05.340 taking a six week

01:52:06.240 trip to North Carolina

01:52:07.260 where they were from

01:52:08.160 and brought the girls

01:52:08.960 home to the grandparents

01:52:09.880 and was getting

01:52:11.760 frustrated

01:52:12.360 that he

01:52:13.140 wasn't even texting

01:52:14.320 or calling

01:52:15.120 to check in

01:52:16.240 on his wife

01:52:17.160 and two daughters

01:52:17.820 and she was pregnant

01:52:18.900 you know

01:52:19.680 weeks were going by

01:52:20.920 without him

01:52:21.460 seeming to give a damn

01:52:22.540 about how they were doing

01:52:24.040 or trying to reach out

01:52:25.100 and you know

01:52:26.040 she would do

01:52:26.500 what any spouse

01:52:27.240 would do

01:52:27.500 which is like

01:52:27.920 thanks for all the calls

01:52:28.860 what's going on

01:52:30.100 right

01:52:31.040 in retrospect

01:52:32.000 how do you think

01:52:33.480 like would he have

01:52:34.460 received that

01:52:35.740 in the same way

01:52:37.060 you're saying

01:52:37.480 he might have received

01:52:38.400 the my daddy

01:52:39.600 is my hero video

01:52:40.660 you know like

01:52:41.300 I don't need this pressure

01:52:43.100 I'm trying to get

01:52:44.520 out of this thing

01:52:45.180 I think that's

01:52:47.840 more than likely

01:52:48.580 how he responded

01:52:49.540 I'm done

01:52:50.180 internally

01:52:51.320 mentally

01:52:52.020 when you have

01:52:53.440 a case like this

01:52:54.460 at least in the cases

01:52:55.520 that I've worked

01:52:56.320 or been aware of

01:52:57.920 there is a mental

01:52:59.500 break

01:53:00.380 where the person

01:53:01.600 says I'm done

01:53:02.720 they don't necessarily

01:53:04.100 tell their partner

01:53:05.020 I'm done

01:53:06.140 but they're done

01:53:07.480 and they make

01:53:08.140 the decision

01:53:08.840 to move on

01:53:10.000 and again

01:53:11.180 they don't have

01:53:11.600 to tell anybody

01:53:12.300 they just do

01:53:13.240 so any efforts

01:53:14.400 to reel them

01:53:15.760 back in

01:53:16.560 will just upset

01:53:18.320 them and make

01:53:19.020 them angry

01:53:19.580 but their partner

01:53:20.260 doesn't know it

01:53:21.200 so that failure

01:53:22.880 to communicate

01:53:23.860 is a huge

01:53:25.140 problem

01:53:25.680 when you're

01:53:26.540 dealing with

01:53:27.040 someone that

01:53:27.920 throws up

01:53:28.500 these emotional

01:53:29.140 walls

01:53:29.720 and internalizes

01:53:31.240 how they feel

01:53:32.260 and how they feel

01:53:34.260 is they're getting

01:53:35.060 angrier

01:53:35.800 and angrier

01:53:36.680 and angrier

01:53:37.300 and Shanann

01:53:38.360 may not have

01:53:38.880 seen that

01:53:39.440 she may not

01:53:40.060 have been aware

01:53:40.660 of that

01:53:40.960 that's his

01:53:41.760 personality

01:53:42.360 that's not

01:53:43.080 something that

01:53:43.660 he just started

01:53:44.480 once he married

01:53:45.940 her

01:53:46.280 that's how he

01:53:47.660 was

01:53:48.060 he just

01:53:48.520 internalized

01:53:49.280 his feelings

01:53:50.060 he has

01:53:51.140 very flat

01:53:51.700 affect

01:53:52.200 I think

01:53:53.400 his ability

01:53:54.660 to empathize

01:53:55.700 with her

01:53:56.240 is really

01:53:57.800 very low

01:53:58.580 and even

01:53:59.220 his ability

01:53:59.760 to empathize

01:54:00.660 with his

01:54:01.040 kids

01:54:01.640 is really

01:54:02.540 pretty low

01:54:03.320 and when

01:54:03.720 you compound

01:54:04.340 that with

01:54:04.860 he's made

01:54:05.460 the decision

01:54:05.980 now to move

01:54:06.660 on with

01:54:06.940 this new

01:54:07.320 girlfriend

01:54:07.740 that's a

01:54:09.200 serious issue

01:54:10.060 again if he

01:54:11.100 keeps getting

01:54:11.620 angrier

01:54:12.120 and angrier

01:54:12.660 and angrier

01:54:13.260 so we know

01:54:14.860 that was

01:54:15.260 happening

01:54:15.660 we know

01:54:16.260 that because

01:54:16.740 we'll get

01:54:17.120 to this

01:54:17.440 but the

01:54:18.260 letters

01:54:18.620 he wrote

01:54:19.220 some woman

01:54:19.980 from prison

01:54:20.660 where he

01:54:21.120 talked in

01:54:21.680 great detail

01:54:22.600 about the

01:54:23.120 night of the

01:54:23.500 murders

01:54:23.820 are absolutely

01:54:25.400 horrifying

01:54:26.400 his coldness

01:54:28.200 his lack

01:54:28.700 of empathy

01:54:29.340 his

01:54:29.800 how he

01:54:31.000 described

01:54:31.600 especially

01:54:32.520 the murder

01:54:32.940 of his wife

01:54:33.640 and how

01:54:34.160 little he

01:54:34.700 felt for her

01:54:35.400 all of that

01:54:36.560 is building

01:54:37.080 over this

01:54:37.960 two month

01:54:38.560 period for sure

01:54:39.300 and you're

01:54:39.720 saying it

01:54:40.280 would have

01:54:40.460 been longer

01:54:41.100 than that

01:54:41.660 but here's

01:54:42.820 how he was

01:54:43.380 responding to her

01:54:44.320 it's such a

01:54:45.020 juxtaposition

01:54:45.600 the Netflix

01:54:46.340 documentary

01:54:46.880 does a great

01:54:47.440 job of laying

01:54:48.360 out her

01:54:49.200 texts to him

01:54:50.420 and then his

01:54:51.380 responses

01:54:51.780 and she is

01:54:52.480 understandably

01:54:53.040 getting a little

01:54:53.660 bit more

01:54:54.020 aggravated

01:54:54.760 but she's

01:54:55.380 not forgive

01:54:56.540 the term

01:54:56.980 getting like

01:54:57.560 bitchy

01:54:58.080 she's just

01:54:58.860 like hey

01:54:59.660 you know

01:55:00.180 what's going

01:55:01.380 on

01:55:01.760 and instead

01:55:02.700 of being

01:55:03.100 like I've

01:55:04.120 got something

01:55:04.520 I need to

01:55:05.260 discuss with

01:55:05.780 you when you

01:55:06.180 get back

01:55:06.600 or like I'm

01:55:07.240 not in a

01:55:07.580 good place

01:55:08.000 right now

01:55:08.500 which would

01:55:09.000 be what an

01:55:09.720 honest person

01:55:10.300 might say

01:55:10.860 here are some

01:55:11.780 full screen

01:55:12.260 quotes showing

01:55:13.200 how he was

01:55:13.800 responding to her

01:55:14.640 he writes

01:55:15.100 I didn't see

01:55:16.160 these FaceTimes

01:55:16.980 and I'm sorry

01:55:17.900 I missed those

01:55:18.480 calls

01:55:18.720 I'm very

01:55:19.220 very very

01:55:20.140 sorry

01:55:20.580 the FaceTime

01:55:21.560 went through

01:55:22.060 on my work

01:55:22.860 phone

01:55:23.180 and then here's

01:55:24.340 another one

01:55:24.860 where he's

01:55:25.400 trying to

01:55:25.700 appease her

01:55:26.160 saying I

01:55:26.680 know and I

01:55:27.560 will FaceTime

01:55:28.400 Bella and Cece

01:55:29.140 as soon as I

01:55:29.820 wake up from

01:55:30.340 now on

01:55:31.160 I'm extremely

01:55:31.840 sorry

01:55:32.320 I feel like a

01:55:33.260 jackass

01:55:33.700 please be okay

01:55:34.700 so Marilyn

01:55:35.700 when you hear

01:55:36.280 him talking

01:55:36.740 like that

01:55:37.340 again he

01:55:38.380 seems like

01:55:39.140 whipped

01:55:41.180 he seems

01:55:42.060 like I'm

01:55:42.380 sorry I'm

01:55:42.640 sorry I'm

01:55:43.040 sorry I'm

01:55:43.060 sorry so so

01:55:43.680 so so sorry

01:55:44.240 I don't I

01:55:45.460 feel like most

01:55:46.160 of us wouldn't

01:55:46.480 look at that

01:55:46.800 and be like

01:55:47.080 that guy's

01:55:47.680 about to

01:55:47.980 murder his

01:55:48.360 family

01:55:48.640 no I don't

01:55:52.120 think most

01:55:52.480 people would

01:55:52.900 look at it

01:55:53.360 like that but

01:55:53.840 I think what

01:55:54.240 he's doing

01:55:54.640 there I

01:55:55.040 think he's

01:55:55.340 buying time

01:55:56.080 I think he's

01:55:57.220 buying time

01:55:58.020 so he doesn't

01:55:58.960 raise her

01:55:59.420 suspicions any

01:56:00.260 higher and

01:56:01.340 her suspicions

01:56:02.040 are are being

01:56:02.860 raised she

01:56:03.820 starts to

01:56:04.420 doubt what

01:56:05.880 he's saying

01:56:06.380 to her he's

01:56:07.560 she's starting

01:56:08.120 to doubt

01:56:08.680 whether or not

01:56:09.420 he's being

01:56:10.040 loyal to her

01:56:11.700 he she's

01:56:12.420 starting to

01:56:12.880 doubt whether

01:56:13.400 or not he

01:56:13.860 has a

01:56:14.200 girlfriend and

01:56:15.200 he's trying

01:56:15.660 to delay

01:56:16.220 that but

01:56:17.380 what we

01:56:17.720 don't know

01:56:18.360 is at

01:56:19.560 what point

01:56:20.100 in their

01:56:20.400 relationship

01:56:20.980 in the

01:56:21.320 past and

01:56:22.320 this becomes

01:56:22.760 important because

01:56:23.580 past behavior

01:56:25.080 can predict

01:56:25.760 predict future

01:56:26.760 behavior at

01:56:28.740 what point in

01:56:29.580 the past had

01:56:31.040 Chris become

01:56:31.600 really angry

01:56:32.380 with Shanann

01:56:33.160 based on

01:56:35.300 her responding

01:56:36.760 to him this

01:56:37.540 way and what

01:56:38.140 did he do

01:56:38.840 how did he

01:56:39.720 retaliate against

01:56:41.000 her what

01:56:41.460 what had he

01:56:42.680 done in the

01:56:43.220 past to

01:56:44.220 demonstrate his

01:56:45.280 his anger we

01:56:46.120 know it at a

01:56:46.880 certain point he

01:56:48.060 started to spike

01:56:48.880 her drinks with

01:56:50.280 oxycodone so

01:56:52.200 had he done that

01:56:52.880 in the past and

01:56:54.080 was she aware

01:56:55.120 of that so

01:56:56.120 that behavior

01:56:57.160 seems to

01:56:57.740 will probably be

01:56:58.760 lost with time

01:56:59.560 we won't know

01:57:00.180 that but

01:57:01.240 again this

01:57:02.320 probably wasn't

01:57:03.100 the first time

01:57:03.760 that he

01:57:04.020 behaved like

01:57:04.740 this but

01:57:05.540 it was the

01:57:05.920 first time he

01:57:07.200 acted out in

01:57:07.820 such a lethal

01:57:08.400 way is the

01:57:10.860 inability to

01:57:11.860 express anger

01:57:13.140 a warning

01:57:14.500 sign in

01:57:16.580 combination with

01:57:17.320 other things it

01:57:18.320 could be a

01:57:18.840 warning sign

01:57:19.640 especially if

01:57:21.180 the the

01:57:22.320 retaliation in

01:57:23.540 those circumstances

01:57:24.440 is really

01:57:27.100 excessive that's

01:57:28.260 what you have

01:57:28.700 to look for

01:57:29.400 it's one thing

01:57:30.080 to be shy

01:57:30.920 it's one thing

01:57:31.720 to be quiet

01:57:32.560 it's one thing

01:57:33.700 to be more

01:57:34.480 introverted but

01:57:35.860 when you're angry

01:57:36.760 and somebody is

01:57:38.000 making you angry

01:57:38.900 how do you act

01:57:40.540 out what do you

01:57:41.320 do do you go

01:57:42.200 into their room

01:57:42.920 and take all

01:57:43.560 their clothes and

01:57:44.300 throw them out

01:57:44.840 the window do

01:57:46.460 you destroy

01:57:47.220 something and

01:57:48.180 then leave it

01:57:48.840 for them to

01:57:49.340 clean up what

01:57:49.900 do you do when

01:57:51.580 you're really angry

01:57:52.640 but you're a

01:57:53.220 person that

01:57:53.960 internalizes thing

01:57:55.200 and have little

01:57:56.660 empathy for your

01:57:57.480 partner with all

01:57:58.360 he has a cluster

01:57:59.380 of traits that

01:58:00.420 I think were

01:58:00.900 very important

01:58:01.680 but that in

01:58:02.860 resistance to

01:58:05.000 sitting down

01:58:05.800 having a

01:58:06.320 conversation

01:58:06.900 expressing himself

01:58:08.160 showing his

01:58:09.120 anger expressing

01:58:09.900 his anger in a

01:58:10.740 you know in a

01:58:11.880 in a way that

01:58:13.580 is you know

01:58:15.720 proper and

01:58:16.720 acceptable what

01:58:18.020 had he done in

01:58:18.680 the past and

01:58:19.440 again that's what

01:58:20.560 we're missing here

01:58:21.420 we don't know

01:58:22.040 what how he did

01:58:23.400 that in the

01:58:23.820 past

01:58:24.320 another thing I

01:58:30.960 can't help but

01:58:31.580 feel and I

01:58:32.440 realize people have

01:58:33.000 affairs all the

01:58:33.620 time they don't

01:58:34.120 wind up killing

01:58:34.580 their spouse but

01:58:35.800 the affair was so

01:58:37.900 dangerous here it

01:58:38.980 really was the

01:58:39.820 spark you know

01:58:41.120 that lit the fuse

01:58:42.560 on this keg of

01:58:44.220 dynamite and as

01:58:45.920 you see him

01:58:46.740 starting to pull

01:58:48.040 away from

01:58:48.900 Shanann and the

01:58:49.900 girls you see

01:58:51.440 fire between

01:58:52.960 Chris Watts and

01:58:54.160 his affair

01:58:54.560 partner Nicole

01:58:55.260 you see she's

01:58:56.940 texting him nude

01:58:57.880 photos of

01:58:58.660 herself he's he

01:59:00.160 seems to be

01:59:00.720 becoming you know

01:59:01.940 near obsessed with

01:59:02.800 her like he's got

01:59:03.400 to see her more

01:59:04.020 and more as soon

01:59:05.280 as Shanann goes

01:59:05.960 out of town he

01:59:07.580 he's going out

01:59:08.540 with Nicole he's

01:59:09.780 trying at first to

01:59:10.980 cover up you know

01:59:13.020 the bills because

01:59:13.860 they don't have any

01:59:14.340 money on the bank

01:59:15.600 statement but then

01:59:16.320 eventually he stops

01:59:18.020 doing that and

01:59:18.940 Shanann is indeed

01:59:20.300 watching the bank

01:59:21.820 statement and seeing

01:59:22.800 you know he said he

01:59:23.520 went to this

01:59:23.980 restaurant but I

01:59:24.800 can see the bill

01:59:25.340 is double what it

01:59:26.680 should be for one

01:59:28.140 guy and so she's

01:59:29.440 getting on it but

01:59:29.920 like to me I can't

01:59:31.800 help feeling like you

01:59:33.040 are playing with fire

01:59:34.400 when you have an

01:59:35.320 affair outside of

01:59:36.840 your marriage you

01:59:37.460 don't know what you

01:59:38.520 are starting inside of

01:59:40.040 yourself or someone

01:59:41.380 else or your spouse

01:59:42.480 yeah certainly can be

01:59:46.240 it certainly can be

01:59:47.640 dangerous and I'm

01:59:48.580 my sense at this

01:59:50.400 point is that Chris

01:59:52.060 is not happy with

01:59:52.980 his life and he's

01:59:55.160 not really blaming

01:59:56.160 himself he's blaming

01:59:57.400 Shanann he may be

01:59:58.700 feeling very trapped

01:59:59.820 very backed up in the

02:00:01.740 corner may feel like he

02:00:03.500 has no control so there

02:00:04.780 are other other

02:00:05.980 feelings that he's that

02:00:07.540 are going on it's just

02:00:08.480 not his inability to

02:00:09.620 express himself so he's

02:00:11.940 now engaged in this

02:00:13.560 behavior where it's

02:00:14.840 almost escalating to

02:00:15.980 the point where he's

02:00:17.440 rubbing it in her

02:00:18.360 face he's not

02:00:20.040 responding to her

02:00:22.160 communications when

02:00:23.240 she's back here on the

02:00:25.200 east coast trying to

02:00:26.120 communicate with him he

02:00:27.800 is taking his

02:00:28.480 girlfriend out he's

02:00:29.360 spending time he's

02:00:30.340 probably extremely

02:00:32.420 distant from her when

02:00:33.820 he is home he's

02:00:34.640 probably very short

02:00:35.700 tempered with her so

02:00:37.980 you know again those

02:00:39.520 are things that become

02:00:40.580 kind of that that slow

02:00:42.400 evolving snowball that

02:00:44.320 is rolling forward

02:00:45.680 forward but a lot of

02:00:47.580 it has to do with him

02:00:49.060 thinking that the only

02:00:50.620 way out of this

02:00:51.500 relationship the only

02:00:53.240 way to move on with

02:00:54.400 his life is to

02:00:56.240 annihilate his family

02:00:58.020 but that means you

02:00:59.560 have to get to the

02:01:00.600 point where you

02:01:01.840 develop hate for them

02:01:03.020 and hate is not

02:01:04.660 anger hate is a very

02:01:05.920 cold-blooded emotion

02:01:07.260 and it takes out it

02:01:08.520 takes a while to

02:01:09.860 develop that but to be

02:01:11.760 able to carry out

02:01:12.540 something so cold-blooded

02:01:14.240 and so heartless you

02:01:16.120 have to blame people

02:01:17.240 for what they've done

02:01:18.220 to you right or wrong

02:01:19.700 you have to blame them

02:01:21.500 and then your only way

02:01:23.520 out of your life is to

02:01:26.580 destroy them whose mind

02:01:29.960 goes to murder you know

02:01:32.360 there's there's good

02:01:33.180 old-fashioned divorce

02:01:34.400 yeah there's good

02:01:38.240 old-fashioned

02:01:38.760 divorce

02:01:39.320 and we see it in so

02:01:43.060 many cases where

02:01:44.080 people will not take

02:01:45.780 that logical step to

02:01:47.700 file for divorce

02:01:49.420 get custody of the

02:01:52.400 children do it in a

02:01:53.440 very pro-social way

02:01:54.820 and why people choose

02:01:57.840 to behave like this

02:02:00.000 is just astounding

02:02:02.620 to think that this

02:02:03.640 would be a way out

02:02:05.420 and to and to think

02:02:07.180 like that also makes

02:02:09.000 me think that you

02:02:10.660 know your sense of

02:02:12.000 you know what is

02:02:13.260 pro-social versus

02:02:15.580 what's anti-social has

02:02:17.560 to be a little flawed

02:02:18.520 as well you can't get

02:02:20.080 away with something

02:02:20.820 like this who's the

02:02:21.840 first person you look

02:02:22.920 at when a partner is

02:02:24.340 murdered who's the

02:02:25.540 first person you look

02:02:26.660 at when young children

02:02:28.020 are murdered you look

02:02:29.260 at the partner the

02:02:31.460 surviving partner so

02:02:32.660 there's there's no

02:02:33.640 even good sense in

02:02:35.200 committing a crime

02:02:36.060 like this so it's

02:02:37.120 that's one of the

02:02:37.600 confusing he's so

02:02:38.340 dumb Mary Ellen

02:02:39.220 pardon he's so dumb

02:02:41.920 we now know thanks to

02:02:43.440 again these letters

02:02:44.120 that he wrote he was

02:02:45.080 planning this crime he

02:02:46.360 it was not spur of

02:02:47.400 the moment and at

02:02:48.560 least so he would

02:02:49.220 later claim so who

02:02:51.620 he's not a complete

02:02:53.120 moron maybe he is

02:02:54.300 maybe I'm

02:02:54.720 overestimating his

02:02:55.480 intelligence but who

02:02:56.860 that's planning to

02:02:58.060 annihilate their

02:02:58.900 family doesn't come

02:03:00.360 up with a sound plan

02:03:01.820 to explain where they

02:03:04.140 went you know who

02:03:06.000 leaves like the wife's

02:03:07.480 purse sitting there

02:03:08.260 and the keys sitting

02:03:08.980 there and her shoes

02:03:09.680 sitting there and her

02:03:10.360 car sitting there and

02:03:11.860 just wants people to

02:03:12.700 believe she just walked

02:03:14.340 away with their two

02:03:15.660 young daughters while

02:03:16.820 she was pregnant

02:03:17.600 shoeless purseless

02:03:19.180 keyless phone-less like

02:03:21.060 it was so dumb it was

02:03:22.860 so predictable that he

02:03:24.640 would get caught and

02:03:26.860 well the other thing

02:03:28.800 that I thought he did

02:03:30.220 in addition to

02:03:30.900 everything that you've

02:03:31.500 said to leave those

02:03:32.340 things behind and

02:03:33.680 knowing that his wife

02:03:34.900 would never leave the

02:03:36.020 house without without

02:03:37.480 her cell phone that

02:03:38.400 seemed to be you know

02:03:39.480 tied to her side when

02:03:41.360 he gave that TV

02:03:42.180 interview where he

02:03:44.080 stood there with the

02:03:46.180 emotion that he did

02:03:47.060 have and he had a

02:03:48.300 smirk on his face and

02:03:49.320 he talked about wanting

02:03:51.380 to see his children

02:03:52.420 again and I looked at

02:03:53.900 that when I watched it

02:03:54.980 the first time it was

02:03:55.960 pretty clear at least

02:03:57.680 to me this man is

02:03:59.120 responsible for having

02:04:00.320 murdered his entire

02:04:01.200 family the moment I

02:04:02.320 saw that again I

02:04:03.580 thought of Peterson and

02:04:05.180 when he gave his

02:04:06.000 interview right after

02:04:07.580 his wife went missing

02:04:08.480 but Chris talked about

02:04:10.820 wanting to see his

02:04:12.460 kids and his wife

02:04:13.860 again he didn't say he

02:04:14.840 wanted them back he

02:04:16.000 said I want to see

02:04:17.000 them so he was very

02:04:18.300 guarded in what he

02:04:19.400 said but that was one

02:04:21.320 of the stupidest things

02:04:22.220 that he could have

02:04:22.720 done was to attempt

02:04:24.000 to do that TV

02:04:24.780 interview and have

02:04:25.960 and expect to have

02:04:26.720 people believe him so

02:04:28.480 I don't think this

02:04:29.080 person was very

02:04:29.980 sophisticated when it

02:04:31.100 came to criminal

02:04:31.720 behavior and I think

02:04:32.920 that accounts for it

02:04:33.960 was there also some

02:04:35.480 narcissism there where

02:04:36.840 he's smarter than

02:04:37.660 everybody else yeah

02:04:38.720 that could have been

02:04:39.360 there too but I

02:04:40.540 think that there is

02:04:41.200 just a naivete about

02:04:42.720 thinking that he could

02:04:43.640 get away with this I

02:04:45.500 mean this I'm gonna

02:04:46.600 ask you the same when

02:04:47.260 we get to the

02:04:47.700 polygraph like who

02:04:48.820 that knows he's done

02:04:49.900 this sits willingly

02:04:51.600 for a polygraph and

02:04:52.920 an interview with

02:04:53.680 police hello you can

02:04:55.380 always say I'm gonna

02:04:56.400 have a lawyer I don't

02:04:57.300 feel comfortable he

02:04:58.440 didn't and it's what

02:04:59.420 led to his confession

02:05:00.300 here is a bit of that

02:05:01.780 television interview to

02:05:03.440 which you just referred

02:05:04.620 I left work for work

02:05:06.660 early that morning like

02:05:07.660 515 530 so like she

02:05:09.860 barely let me she

02:05:11.780 barely got barely got

02:05:12.780 into bed pretty much

02:05:13.760 this might be a tough

02:05:16.180 question but did you

02:05:18.900 guys get into an

02:05:19.340 argument before she

02:05:20.660 left it wasn't it

02:05:21.420 wasn't like an

02:05:21.820 argument we had

02:05:22.320 emotional conversation

02:05:23.240 but I'll leave it at

02:05:24.400 that but it's I just

02:05:27.380 want them back I just

02:05:29.760 I just want them to

02:05:30.480 come back and if if

02:05:33.780 they're not safe right

02:05:34.580 now that's what's that's

02:05:35.800 what's tearing me apart

02:05:36.580 because if they are safe

02:05:38.260 they're coming back but

02:05:39.360 if they're not this this

02:05:40.860 this has got to stop like

02:05:42.000 somebody has to come

02:05:42.840 forward Shanann Bella

02:05:45.040 Celeste if you're out

02:05:47.340 there just just come

02:05:48.780 back like if somebody

02:05:50.100 has her just please

02:05:51.800 bring her back I need

02:05:53.320 to see everybody I need

02:05:54.660 to see everybody again

02:05:55.560 this house is not

02:05:56.340 complete with without

02:05:57.680 anybody here

02:05:58.440 oh my god and like it's

02:06:05.760 all about himself first

02:06:06.680 of all like if you were

02:06:08.340 actually missing your

02:06:09.280 spouse and your children

02:06:10.420 I think you'd say I am so

02:06:12.500 terribly worried please

02:06:14.280 where are you you know

02:06:15.400 I'll do anything to find

02:06:16.380 you this is how you can

02:06:17.300 reach me this is how

02:06:18.260 this is where we are

02:06:19.240 whatever you'd plead to

02:06:20.720 the kidnapper he's like

02:06:21.800 if they're not okay this

02:06:23.420 needs to end I mean this

02:06:24.680 is it's been a lot for

02:06:25.760 me you know crazy yeah

02:06:28.700 and I and I think with

02:06:30.040 with a number of these

02:06:31.180 family annihilators it

02:06:33.280 really is very selfish

02:06:34.580 their approach to what

02:06:36.740 happened their description

02:06:38.340 of what happened their

02:06:40.660 their amount of

02:06:41.900 commitment their investment

02:06:43.340 of emotion and explaining

02:06:44.720 what happened and you

02:06:46.800 see that in his his

02:06:47.900 interviews with the

02:06:49.040 detectives doesn't make

02:06:50.540 a strong emotional

02:06:51.960 investment in the

02:06:53.100 interviews and I've done

02:06:54.060 hundreds of interviews

02:06:55.100 with people some guilty

02:06:56.280 some not guilty but you

02:06:57.900 see generally a tremendous

02:06:59.920 amount of emotion with

02:07:01.360 him it's just very flat you

02:07:03.080 don't see it again and I

02:07:04.660 I think he's just it's all

02:07:05.880 about him and again I

02:07:08.000 think that's very consistent

02:07:09.020 with someone who does

02:07:10.400 annihilate their entire

02:07:11.320 family it's the meanwhile

02:07:15.160 the the neighbors knew

02:07:17.320 enough and and Shanann's

02:07:19.300 friends knew enough about

02:07:20.520 him to suspect him

02:07:22.620 immediately that God bless

02:07:24.540 her friend Shanann's

02:07:26.120 friend another Nicole this

02:07:28.420 one was Nicole Atkinson who

02:07:30.620 was all over her

02:07:32.920 disappearance like white on

02:07:34.260 rice I mean she was like

02:07:35.520 she's pregnant she has a

02:07:37.060 doctor's appointment today we

02:07:38.140 were just on a business

02:07:38.800 trip I dropped her off here

02:07:39.980 at 2 a.m. she should be

02:07:41.460 here she was going to the

02:07:42.360 doctor she's not answering

02:07:43.500 her phone that's not like

02:07:44.600 her and she's the one who

02:07:45.820 called 9-1-1 just here's a

02:07:47.200 flavor of that it's Nicole

02:07:49.240 calling 9-1-1 stop for

02:07:50.700 all kind of communications

02:07:52.440 this is Stacy

02:07:53.100 hi Stacy my name's Nicole and

02:07:57.040 I'm calling because I'm

02:07:58.120 concerned about a friend of

02:07:59.660 mine I dropped her off at

02:08:02.280 her house at 2 in the

02:08:03.140 morning last night because

02:08:03.960 we were out of town

02:08:04.600 together and we were on

02:08:05.660 the way back from the

02:08:06.240 airport and she's

02:08:07.900 having issues and she's

02:08:09.560 pregnant and I haven't

02:08:11.600 been able to get a hold of

02:08:12.580 her this morning and I've

02:08:13.900 gone to her house and her

02:08:14.940 car is there and stuff like

02:08:17.200 that but she won't answer

02:08:18.280 the door she won't answer

02:08:19.300 phone calls she won't answer

02:08:20.420 text messages and I'm just

02:08:22.640 really really concerned and

02:08:23.880 she had a doctor's

02:08:24.500 appointment this morning and

02:08:25.620 she didn't go to it and I'm

02:08:27.140 just I don't know what to

02:08:28.460 do I've called him and talked

02:08:29.880 to him and he said that she

02:08:31.860 went on a play date with her

02:08:32.960 other two daughters but like

02:08:34.660 if she went on a play date

02:08:35.540 they're both in car seats

02:08:36.300 why would she not take a

02:08:37.080 car

02:08:37.380 so good as somebody who's

02:08:41.380 devoted her life to law

02:08:42.300 enforcement Mary Ellen

02:08:43.220 just what's the lesson

02:08:45.400 there for concerned

02:08:46.420 friends concerned family

02:08:47.560 members this woman did not

02:08:49.140 wait two seconds

02:08:49.940 oh absolutely when you

02:08:53.300 suspect that there's

02:08:54.420 something going on or that

02:08:56.120 you're really worried

02:08:57.040 because there's not that

02:09:00.120 typical pattern that you

02:09:01.300 expected somebody doesn't

02:09:02.360 show up somebody doesn't

02:09:03.580 go in to an appointment

02:09:04.740 don't worry about

02:09:06.040 embarrassing yourself or

02:09:07.600 bothering the police

02:09:09.260 call report it make sure

02:09:12.720 people know about it check

02:09:14.320 with others find out don't

02:09:15.800 just let it go and say I'm

02:09:17.500 sure it's fine I'm sure

02:09:18.800 that she'll show up

02:09:19.820 somehow someplace don't do

02:09:21.660 that be very proactive which

02:09:23.500 is what happened here and I

02:09:25.120 think that made an

02:09:26.280 incredible difference in how

02:09:27.780 this case was ultimately

02:09:29.080 resolved and how quickly it

02:09:30.760 was resolved and it was

02:09:32.500 good to I have to say for

02:09:33.600 Shanon to have shared her

02:09:35.900 concerns about her marriage

02:09:37.200 with you know a couple of

02:09:38.480 close friends because they

02:09:40.400 then knew when she went

02:09:42.620 missing we think we know

02:09:44.800 what's going on here I mean

02:09:45.880 I recognize out of respect

02:09:47.860 for your marriage you're not

02:09:48.720 running around to

02:09:49.280 everybody saying we have this

02:09:50.400 argument we have that

02:09:51.120 argument but this was

02:09:52.480 getting to a point where

02:09:53.360 Shanon was getting really

02:09:54.560 worried and I mean it's

02:09:56.080 there's a lesson there to

02:09:57.080 like do confide in at least

02:09:59.180 a friend or two I think

02:10:01.780 that was very impressive

02:10:03.600 here that a friend realized

02:10:07.220 pretty much right away

02:10:08.380 something was wrong that

02:10:09.920 suggests to me that the

02:10:12.180 friends did not see Chris

02:10:14.420 the same way that Shanon did

02:10:16.220 and it would have been

02:10:17.900 interesting if this did go

02:10:19.060 to trial what would this

02:10:20.640 friend have testified to what

02:10:22.440 had she seen what were her

02:10:23.900 instincts what had she

02:10:25.420 overheard were there

02:10:27.680 examples of domestic

02:10:29.840 violence in the household

02:10:31.220 and I suspect that there

02:10:32.220 were they may have been a

02:10:33.880 little bit subdued but I

02:10:34.960 suspect that there was

02:10:36.500 domestic violence and so

02:10:37.920 these friends may have been

02:10:39.160 telling Shanon leave him

02:10:40.620 there's something wrong

02:10:41.500 with this guy you need to

02:10:42.940 get away from him but to

02:10:44.480 make a phone call that

02:10:45.600 quickly and to be that

02:10:47.500 concern that suggests that

02:10:50.180 they knew more than than

02:10:51.800 what it would appear by just

02:10:53.880 kind of living across the

02:10:55.160 street they were more

02:10:55.960 aware of the dynamics of

02:10:57.480 that relationship definitely

02:10:59.380 and we'll talk about the

02:11:01.180 actual murder in a second

02:11:02.660 but the other neighbor

02:11:04.240 while we're on the subject

02:11:05.000 of the neighbors and the

02:11:05.780 friends the other neighbor

02:11:06.720 was great he had a camera

02:11:10.260 out in front of his house

02:11:11.820 for security purposes and he

02:11:13.480 pulled up the footage and

02:11:15.360 this is all from the police

02:11:16.380 body cam we can see he's

02:11:17.860 like he had his truck in

02:11:20.160 front of his house this

02:11:20.940 morning at 5 a.m.

02:11:22.740 and then and Chris is Chris

02:11:24.060 Watts is in there he's in

02:11:25.240 the guy's house and then as

02:11:27.240 soon as Chris Watts walks

02:11:28.140 out the neighbor's like

02:11:28.980 that's not normal he's not a

02:11:30.520 talker what's happening we

02:11:31.240 have a little bit of that

02:11:31.920 again from Netflix here it

02:11:33.240 is sought six so unless they

02:11:36.380 pulled right here but I would

02:11:38.780 have caught her walking out

02:11:40.080 nothing for the rest of the day

02:11:54.560 you just want to go talk to him

02:11:57.820 I'm going to get his info real

02:11:58.800 quick he said he's not acting

02:12:11.660 right he's rocking back and

02:12:12.740 forth he's not acting right and

02:12:14.960 and that guy as he's describing

02:12:18.680 what his cameras may or may not

02:12:20.160 have picked up on there he's not

02:12:21.300 talking about Chris Watts's truck

02:12:22.700 pulling out you can see Chris

02:12:24.420 Watts like the hands are on the

02:12:25.860 head like you can tell he's

02:12:27.500 stressed out I don't think he

02:12:29.080 realized the neighbor has

02:12:30.560 cameras well he probably wasn't

02:12:34.100 aware of that but you know what

02:12:35.420 it also tells me is that these

02:12:37.520 neighbors were suspicious of

02:12:38.860 Chris before that morning they

02:12:41.640 when they saw that behavior they

02:12:43.860 interpreted it correctly but they

02:12:45.760 were suspicious of him before so

02:12:47.860 my question would be if I were

02:12:49.640 interviewing them why were you

02:12:51.520 suspicious of him why were you

02:12:53.200 so able to zero in on that

02:12:54.860 behavior and interpret it

02:12:56.400 correctly what did you know

02:12:57.540 beforehand that would be helpful

02:12:59.440 to understand how this

02:13:01.080 relationship unraveled

02:13:03.220 good point because you know in a

02:13:06.820 lot of these cases you see the

02:13:07.800 neighbors saying no I could never

02:13:09.140 have seen him doing this these

02:13:10.820 neighbors and friends were like

02:13:11.860 it's the husband this isn't

02:13:13.580 normal

02:13:13.940 they did right away right yeah so

02:13:18.100 let's talk about the crime it's

02:13:21.060 the reason why this case became such a

02:13:22.800 national story and haunts us still

02:13:25.000 she comes home from the business

02:13:27.560 trip two in the morning two plus

02:13:29.980 between two and three she had told

02:13:32.660 her friends that she was on the

02:13:34.780 business trip with I'm going to talk

02:13:37.320 to him about what I saw on the

02:13:39.800 receipts or the credit card and my

02:13:42.380 fear that he's having an affair she

02:13:44.180 had already been texting about how he

02:13:46.480 wouldn't touch her he knew she

02:13:48.500 wanted sex and he didn't give it to

02:13:50.060 her and it's not normal and she felt

02:13:52.980 him distancing from her so she shows

02:13:55.560 up and she said according to that

02:13:59.440 friend who had called 911 Nicole

02:14:01.020 Atkinson she she had given Shanann a

02:14:03.260 ride to her home and she said that

02:14:08.320 that Shanann had planned on giving a

02:14:11.180 speech I guess well one of the friends

02:14:12.700 said Shanann had read me or sent me a

02:14:14.680 draft of a speech she planned to give

02:14:15.960 to Chris when she arrived saying some

02:14:19.300 to this effect I try to fix things and

02:14:21.300 make them better this is making me

02:14:22.940 crazy I need you to give just a little

02:14:25.460 bit of what I did or didn't do so I'm

02:14:28.580 not going crazy in my head to figure it

02:14:30.920 out I know I can't fix this by myself we

02:14:33.400 are going to have to work together Chris

02:14:36.760 would later tell investigators that she

02:14:38.500 got home around 148 in the morning and

02:14:41.100 that she Shanann initiated sex and that

02:14:45.300 then they went to bed he claimed that

02:14:48.980 then he murdered her he claimed that

02:14:52.240 initially that he killed her and then

02:14:57.920 killed the daughters and then he would

02:15:00.020 shift the story as time went on no I'm

02:15:03.760 sorry let me correct that he initially

02:15:05.380 claimed that he killed her because she

02:15:08.320 killed the daughters that was his first

02:15:10.460 confession we have it on tape the

02:15:13.460 police were interrogating him and before

02:15:16.440 let me set it up like this before they

02:15:19.060 got him to confess they sat down with a

02:15:21.000 polygraph and the polygraph operator

02:15:23.400 Mary Ellen she's I thought she was

02:15:25.760 amazing she's super cash you know like

02:15:28.280 we're just gonna ask you a few

02:15:29.540 questions you know everybody does these

02:15:30.940 polygraphs and like you know whatever

02:15:33.280 and he doesn't actually confess here but

02:15:35.620 this sets the table for the confession

02:15:37.160 here's a bit of that and obviously I mean

02:15:40.700 I hope that you know if you did have

02:15:42.740 something to do with their disappearance

02:15:44.840 it would be really stupid for you to come

02:15:47.340 in and take a polygraph today right like

02:15:49.800 it would be really dumb like you should

02:15:52.300 not be here right now sitting in this

02:15:53.760 chair if you had anything to do with

02:15:55.700 Shanann and the little girl's disappearance

02:15:57.800 okay okay

02:15:59.360 so he sits for the polygraph they ask him

02:16:03.520 all the questions he denies having

02:16:06.180 anything to do with it and then they come

02:16:09.160 back to him she and a male colleague and

02:16:12.140 they start really pressing him like he

02:16:13.820 didn't tell the truth we know the truth

02:16:15.760 and then they bring in his dad his dad is

02:16:19.240 the one who gets the confession out of him

02:16:22.360 and here is a bit of that

02:16:24.900 she smothered him he asks

02:16:30.640 choked them

02:16:31.880 I didn't hear anything

02:16:32.720 I didn't hear anything

02:16:35.660 they're gone

02:16:37.300 I don't know like what else to say but I freaked out and I had to do the same blanking thing

02:16:49.620 I freaked out and I had to do the same blanking thing to her

02:17:06.080 those are my kids

02:17:08.240 so what do you make of all of the how the police handled the interrogation the polygraph and then bringing the dad in

02:17:13.900 I thought it was impressive and just to start off with the woman interrogator

02:17:19.460 she says something very effective she said

02:17:21.980 if you had anything to do with this you shouldn't be sitting here talking to me

02:17:25.820 in other words only sit here and talk to me if you're innocent

02:17:29.080 giving him an out

02:17:31.480 and she did that purposely

02:17:33.440 so I think the way that she did that

02:17:36.400 and also did it in a kind of a really pretty low-key

02:17:39.340 easygoing way I thought that was really very effective

02:17:42.240 and during the polygraph again

02:17:44.580 I think you know you get more out of trying to build rapport with people

02:17:49.600 and not yelling and screaming at them

02:17:51.460 so I thought that they did really a good job

02:17:54.920 an excellent job as a matter of fact

02:17:56.680 and I was amazed when I saw them bring in the father

02:18:00.780 this shows me that they were very flexible

02:18:04.260 to try whatever they had to try

02:18:06.660 to get to the truth

02:18:08.420 you typically would not bring in a parent or a spouse into an interview

02:18:13.060 just wouldn't do that

02:18:14.600 unless you felt it was completely necessary

02:18:17.940 so they probably briefed the father

02:18:20.340 they probably explained what they had in terms of evidence

02:18:23.680 explained what they have in terms of the facts of the case

02:18:26.820 and they brought him in after they went through the briefing of the father

02:18:30.980 and that worked extremely well

02:18:33.580 and the father did an extraordinary job of showing his son love and care

02:18:40.040 putting his arm around him

02:18:41.500 and getting him to explain what happened

02:18:43.940 even though it wasn't the truth the first time around

02:18:46.220 but still it got the ball rolling

02:18:48.580 so that says a lot about the investigators

02:18:51.680 and how they operated that interview

02:18:53.860 I can't help but look at that and say

02:18:56.880 that seems like a loving dad

02:18:58.300 seems like a responsible man

02:19:00.180 who would go in there and do that

02:19:01.900 how does a man like that have a son like that

02:19:05.200 I know he seemed very

02:19:09.000 he seemed very kind and very loving

02:19:11.860 but from some of the information that I read

02:19:14.540 I don't know that he had that kind of relationship

02:19:18.320 with his daughter-in-law

02:19:19.500 but nonetheless

02:19:20.240 you cannot like your in-laws

02:19:22.520 but you still don't kill them

02:19:24.240 but I think the father fulfilled the fatherly role

02:19:27.860 he wanted to emphasize with his son

02:19:31.460 how important it was

02:19:32.700 that he tell the truth

02:19:34.080 you could see the father knew

02:19:36.720 just what the repercussions were going to be

02:19:40.840 and he played the role of the father extremely well

02:19:44.600 he didn't play the role of an attorney

02:19:46.800 he didn't play the role of a negotiator

02:19:49.400 he went in there because he cared about his son

02:19:52.100 it doesn't mean that his son is the

02:19:54.700 you know exact in the exact likeness of him

02:19:57.560 it just means that he did his job really well

02:20:00.300 parents that have kids

02:20:07.740 that act in a very violent way

02:20:09.740 in a very brutal way

02:20:10.900 they have a difficult time seeing it

02:20:13.280 they have a difficult time understanding

02:20:15.120 how the heck did you get to be like that

02:20:17.720 I like

02:20:18.680 can any of us raise a killer?

02:20:20.640 do you know if you're raising a killer?

02:20:22.360 well number one I think it's possible

02:20:26.180 for families and parents to raise someone

02:20:30.380 that can ultimately act out

02:20:32.140 in a way that ends in somebody else being murdered

02:20:35.640 but you have to look at

02:20:37.020 what were the circumstances of the murder

02:20:38.700 and in this case

02:20:39.980 very cold-blooded

02:20:41.660 in this case

02:20:42.800 it was planned

02:20:44.100 in this case

02:20:45.000 it involved the biological children

02:20:46.860 in this case

02:20:48.360 it involved a triple murder

02:20:50.740 and the spouse

02:20:52.420 Shanann

02:20:53.420 Celeste

02:20:54.580 Bella

02:20:55.680 were treated like objects

02:20:57.080 that's very different

02:20:58.920 than someone

02:20:59.780 that murders

02:21:00.780 in a really impulsive way

02:21:02.980 or someone that murders

02:21:03.900 because they've had too much to drink

02:21:05.440 so in this case

02:21:07.120 I'm sure the family

02:21:08.120 is really struggling with

02:21:09.320 what the heck happened here

02:21:11.020 how did this

02:21:11.740 how did this happen?

02:21:13.360 do you think there'd be signs

02:21:14.360 Marilyn

02:21:16.860 that dad on camera

02:21:17.800 and he was really honest

02:21:19.140 about raising Chris Watts

02:21:20.900 he'd have stories

02:21:22.660 of like

02:21:23.320 whether it's animal torture

02:21:25.360 or lack of empathy

02:21:27.160 you know

02:21:27.540 are there usually?

02:21:31.320 there are red flags along the way

02:21:33.620 but I'll tell you this

02:21:34.420 and I've seen it over the last

02:21:35.700 I don't know

02:21:36.100 40 years

02:21:36.740 whatever

02:21:37.040 but

02:21:37.400 it's so difficult

02:21:39.400 for family members

02:21:41.080 to look at a loved one

02:21:42.640 and say

02:21:43.320 there's a problem

02:21:44.720 you have

02:21:45.480 you have a problem

02:21:46.740 how you

02:21:47.700 get along with people

02:21:49.180 how you interact with people

02:21:50.640 the rage that you show

02:21:52.320 or that you don't show

02:21:53.320 but it's there

02:21:53.940 we know it's there

02:21:55.420 it's so difficult

02:21:56.760 for family members

02:21:57.660 to see that

02:21:58.540 and really

02:21:59.940 that's part of the reason

02:22:01.120 that we have problems

02:22:02.440 when we put out

02:22:03.540 the warning behaviors

02:22:04.560 for these

02:22:05.600 you know

02:22:05.960 mass shooters

02:22:06.640 the warning behaviors

02:22:08.080 are really designed

02:22:09.040 for the family to see

02:22:10.340 and then

02:22:11.340 once you analyze

02:22:12.700 one of these cases

02:22:13.540 the family said

02:22:14.320 well I didn't see anything

02:22:15.400 so

02:22:16.000 I've just seen this

02:22:17.440 and heard this

02:22:18.040 over and over again

02:22:19.160 when you love someone

02:22:20.200 you just don't see

02:22:21.660 what's there

02:22:22.220 oftentimes

02:22:22.940 that can be dangerous

02:22:24.200 as you pointed out

02:22:25.940 even if you're the wife

02:22:27.200 versus the neighbor

02:22:28.740 versus the friend

02:22:29.860 you know

02:22:30.440 it could be

02:22:30.900 go beyond

02:22:31.500 that sort of blindness

02:22:32.400 the parents

02:22:33.680 and this person

02:22:34.840 who's a family annihilator

02:22:36.160 benefits

02:22:37.160 from that blindness

02:22:38.760 from the people

02:22:39.980 who love him most

02:22:41.060 he confessed

02:22:43.920 there

02:22:45.240 he tried to blame

02:22:46.060 the murder of the children

02:22:47.140 on Shanann

02:22:47.820 that wasn't true

02:22:48.740 he later told the truth

02:22:50.500 that he killed

02:22:51.520 all three of them

02:22:52.420 including his unborn son

02:22:53.860 which makes it four

02:22:54.720 and later

02:22:56.700 he would write

02:22:58.380 in a handwritten letter

02:22:59.440 from prison

02:23:00.160 to a pen pal

02:23:01.140 Sherilyn Cattle

02:23:02.820 and he would detail

02:23:04.300 how he claimed

02:23:05.380 he first

02:23:06.660 attempted to kill

02:23:07.920 the daughters

02:23:08.500 before he killed Shanann

02:23:10.320 now I don't know

02:23:11.720 what to believe

02:23:12.300 I don't know

02:23:12.800 whether this is true

02:23:13.700 the order in which

02:23:14.600 he did the murders

02:23:15.320 but this is what he wrote

02:23:16.480 I went to Bella's room

02:23:18.560 then Cece's room

02:23:20.200 Bella was the older

02:23:21.180 Cece was younger

02:23:22.280 and used a pillow

02:23:23.600 from their bed

02:23:24.420 that's why the cause

02:23:25.780 of death was smothering

02:23:27.200 after I left

02:23:28.560 Cece's room

02:23:29.520 then I climbed

02:23:30.620 back in bed

02:23:31.300 with Shanann

02:23:31.880 and our argument

02:23:32.820 ensued

02:23:33.580 he goes on

02:23:35.280 he said he told

02:23:36.780 Shanann about

02:23:37.440 his affair

02:23:38.300 with that woman

02:23:39.100 Nicole

02:23:39.580 and said that

02:23:40.560 their marriage

02:23:41.060 wouldn't last

02:23:42.100 that Shanann replied

02:23:43.740 Chris would not

02:23:44.720 see the kids again

02:23:45.740 and then he strangled

02:23:47.440 her to death

02:23:48.020 he then wrote

02:23:50.580 after Shanann

02:23:51.600 had passed

02:23:52.480 Bella and Cece

02:23:54.060 woke back up

02:23:55.360 woke back up

02:23:56.900 I'm not sure

02:23:58.320 how

02:23:58.980 they woke back up

02:24:00.320 but they did

02:24:01.880 Bella

02:24:03.060 who was four

02:24:03.800 came in and asked

02:24:04.900 what was wrong

02:24:05.540 with mom

02:24:06.180 and Chris said

02:24:07.200 he then

02:24:07.620 wrapped Shanann

02:24:08.600 in a blanket

02:24:09.140 carried her

02:24:09.740 to the truck

02:24:10.300 put the two

02:24:11.200 daughters

02:24:11.520 in the back seat

02:24:12.340 and drove

02:24:13.620 to the oil

02:24:15.220 site where he

02:24:15.940 worked

02:24:16.320 where the oil

02:24:17.080 tanks were

02:24:17.780 before we get

02:24:19.520 to that stage

02:24:20.300 there's so much

02:24:21.560 in here

02:24:22.080 you won't see

02:24:25.200 the kids again

02:24:26.000 Chris Watts

02:24:26.820 wouldn't have

02:24:27.200 cared about that

02:24:28.220 he didn't want

02:24:30.720 to see the kids

02:24:31.360 again

02:24:31.720 I'm not sure

02:24:32.400 why he's even

02:24:32.920 offering that detail

02:24:34.020 but why is he

02:24:35.360 saying he tried

02:24:36.480 to smother

02:24:37.220 the girls

02:24:37.880 before he killed

02:24:39.760 Shanann

02:24:40.240 and then later

02:24:41.080 he will change

02:24:41.660 the story

02:24:42.220 I think

02:24:43.320 actually I'm not

02:24:46.100 sure

02:24:46.400 later the story

02:24:48.120 is simply

02:24:48.660 I smothered

02:24:49.820 them at the

02:24:50.120 oil site

02:24:50.560 right

02:24:54.020 well if we're

02:24:55.960 to assume

02:24:56.740 that what he

02:24:57.380 wrote in

02:24:58.140 in the letter

02:24:59.420 to a

02:25:01.400 female pen

02:25:02.460 pal

02:25:02.740 is true

02:25:04.400 then he

02:25:06.680 had to have

02:25:07.860 a motive

02:25:08.300 for wanting

02:25:09.080 his two

02:25:09.520 baby girls

02:25:10.120 killed first

02:25:11.560 and that may

02:25:12.640 have been

02:25:13.060 so they didn't

02:25:13.900 interrupt him

02:25:14.680 when he was

02:25:15.260 killing

02:25:15.660 Shanann

02:25:16.620 if we are

02:25:18.420 to assume

02:25:19.240 then however

02:25:20.680 on the other

02:25:21.260 hand that he

02:25:22.140 said that

02:25:22.680 for other

02:25:23.200 reasons

02:25:23.780 and they

02:25:25.180 weren't true

02:25:25.920 but he wanted

02:25:26.580 to impress

02:25:27.620 this pen

02:25:28.220 pal

02:25:28.520 then that

02:25:29.520 would be

02:25:29.780 very telling

02:25:30.380 about some

02:25:32.880 serious issues

02:25:33.780 with his

02:25:34.600 personality

02:25:35.380 my sense

02:25:36.660 is that

02:25:37.980 may have

02:25:38.260 been true

02:25:38.780 that he

02:25:40.980 went in

02:25:41.600 and attempted

02:25:42.320 to murder

02:25:42.780 the two

02:25:43.200 girls first

02:25:44.080 that was the

02:25:45.800 first time

02:25:46.200 he attempted

02:25:46.640 murder

02:25:47.060 he was not

02:25:47.860 successful

02:25:48.420 and that the

02:25:49.240 reason may

02:25:49.780 have been

02:25:50.260 because he

02:25:51.960 knew it was

02:25:52.560 going to be

02:25:53.020 more difficult

02:25:53.760 to kill

02:25:54.560 his wife

02:25:55.120 she could

02:25:55.940 make noise

02:25:56.720 she could

02:25:58.200 scream

02:25:58.780 fight him

02:26:00.440 and he

02:26:00.940 did not

02:26:01.400 want the

02:26:02.060 baby girls

02:26:02.840 to come

02:26:03.160 in and

02:26:03.500 interrupt him

02:26:04.120 because then

02:26:04.680 it would be

02:26:05.060 difficult to

02:26:05.640 carry out

02:26:06.100 the murder

02:26:06.820 of Shanann

02:26:08.020 my sense

02:26:08.800 is that's

02:26:09.300 probably

02:26:09.820 if that's

02:26:10.280 true

02:26:10.480 that's

02:26:10.760 probably

02:26:11.120 the sequence

02:26:12.200 of events

02:26:13.100 and the

02:26:13.560 reason that

02:26:14.200 he would

02:26:14.460 have done

02:26:14.760 that

02:26:15.000 he didn't

02:26:15.900 do it

02:26:16.240 successfully

02:26:16.800 and so

02:26:17.520 when he

02:26:17.880 gets to

02:26:18.340 the site

02:26:18.960 where he

02:26:19.740 has already

02:26:20.720 buried his

02:26:21.240 wife

02:26:21.560 now he's

02:26:22.320 got to

02:26:22.920 look into

02:26:23.280 the eyes

02:26:23.620 of his

02:26:23.920 daughters

02:26:24.320 and kill

02:26:25.200 them as

02:26:25.540 they sit

02:26:25.920 in the

02:26:26.220 truck

02:26:26.500 which is

02:26:26.840 almost worse

02:26:27.500 than killing

02:26:28.020 them while

02:26:28.500 they're

02:26:29.040 semi

02:26:29.460 asleep

02:26:29.940 yeah

02:26:30.860 it is

02:26:31.780 worse

02:26:32.200 if you

02:26:33.400 can get

02:26:33.740 worse

02:26:34.300 it is

02:26:34.740 worse

02:26:35.080 he

02:26:36.060 this is

02:26:36.840 a viewer

02:26:37.620 warning

02:26:38.160 I mean

02:26:38.640 this is

02:26:39.000 genuinely

02:26:39.440 disturbing

02:26:39.960 so I

02:26:40.380 want to

02:26:40.700 let the

02:26:41.000 viewers

02:26:41.240 know

02:26:41.500 this is

02:26:42.100 dark

02:26:43.220 dark

02:26:43.520 dark

02:26:43.780 stuff

02:26:44.060 I'm

02:26:44.220 about

02:26:44.420 to

02:26:44.580 read

02:26:44.820 in

02:26:46.540 more

02:26:46.820 letters

02:26:47.240 to

02:26:47.880 this

02:26:48.180 Cato

02:26:48.560 he

02:26:49.580 reverses

02:26:50.600 his

02:26:50.940 claim

02:26:51.280 to the

02:26:51.600 police

02:26:51.920 earlier

02:26:52.280 that the

02:26:52.780 murders

02:26:53.120 were

02:26:53.900 spontaneous

02:26:54.420 he

02:26:55.740 writes

02:26:56.700 August 12th

02:26:57.780 when I

02:26:58.080 finished

02:26:58.340 putting

02:26:58.580 the girls

02:26:59.000 to bed

02:26:59.480 I walked

02:27:00.620 away

02:27:00.900 and said

02:27:01.340 that's

02:27:01.720 the last

02:27:02.080 time

02:27:02.440 I'm going

02:27:02.920 to be

02:27:03.160 tucking

02:27:03.460 my babies

02:27:03.980 in

02:27:04.220 I knew

02:27:05.140 what was

02:27:05.420 going to

02:27:05.760 happen

02:27:06.000 the day

02:27:06.340 before

02:27:06.740 and I

02:27:07.140 did

02:27:07.320 nothing

02:27:07.620 to stop

02:27:08.140 it

02:27:08.320 what a

02:27:08.980 strange

02:27:09.300 phrasing

02:27:09.680 I did

02:27:10.260 nothing

02:27:10.500 to stop

02:27:10.980 it

02:27:11.160 as though

02:27:11.700 he knew

02:27:12.680 it was

02:27:12.840 somebody

02:27:13.060 else

02:27:13.260 who was

02:27:13.460 going

02:27:13.560 to do

02:27:13.780 it

02:27:13.960 later

02:27:14.820 he said

02:27:15.240 of Shanann

02:27:15.800 isn't it

02:27:16.760 weird how

02:27:17.240 I look

02:27:17.580 back

02:27:17.960 and what

02:27:18.300 I remember

02:27:18.720 so much

02:27:19.240 is her

02:27:19.500 face

02:27:19.880 getting all

02:27:20.340 black

02:27:20.720 with streaks

02:27:21.260 of mascara

02:27:21.960 all the

02:27:22.980 weeks

02:27:23.260 of me

02:27:23.700 thinking

02:27:24.040 about

02:27:24.320 killing

02:27:24.640 her

02:27:24.900 and now

02:27:25.860 I was

02:27:26.160 faced

02:27:26.460 with it

02:27:26.840 I knew

02:27:27.720 if I took

02:27:28.120 my hands

02:27:28.640 off of her

02:27:29.120 she would

02:27:29.480 still keep

02:27:30.400 me from

02:27:30.880 Nikki

02:27:31.220 they asked

02:27:32.540 me why

02:27:32.820 she couldn't

02:27:33.260 fight back

02:27:33.720 it's because

02:27:34.200 she couldn't

02:27:34.920 fight back

02:27:35.560 her eyes

02:27:36.720 filled with

02:27:37.200 blood

02:27:37.560 as she

02:27:38.040 looked at

02:27:38.400 me

02:27:38.620 and she

02:27:39.060 died

02:27:39.440 I knew

02:27:40.300 she was

02:27:40.620 gone

02:27:40.980 when she

02:27:41.560 relieved

02:27:41.980 herself

02:27:42.560 and then

02:27:43.820 he goes

02:27:44.000 on to

02:27:44.240 talk about

02:27:44.520 the

02:27:44.640 daughters

02:27:44.900 which we

02:27:45.200 can talk

02:27:45.460 about

02:27:45.600 in a

02:27:45.780 second

02:27:45.960 but

02:27:46.260 that

02:27:47.720 this

02:27:48.320 poor

02:27:48.700 woman

02:27:49.080 completely

02:27:49.680 helpless

02:27:50.160 several

02:27:51.500 months

02:27:51.760 pregnant

02:27:52.200 dying

02:27:53.700 on her

02:27:54.060 bed

02:27:54.400 at the

02:27:55.500 hands

02:27:55.760 of the

02:27:56.020 man

02:27:56.300 she

02:27:56.700 loved

02:27:57.160 and was

02:27:57.620 building

02:27:57.880 a family

02:27:58.380 with

02:27:58.700 and he

02:27:59.540 can talk

02:28:00.000 about

02:28:00.400 all I

02:28:01.000 all I

02:28:01.540 really

02:28:01.660 isn't it

02:28:01.980 so weird

02:28:02.420 all I

02:28:02.740 remember

02:28:03.020 is the

02:28:03.380 streaks

02:28:03.580 of

02:28:03.740 mascara

02:28:04.120 the

02:28:05.020 coldness

02:28:05.960 the

02:28:06.340 inhumanity

02:28:07.420 yeah

02:28:09.240 that's

02:28:09.660 what I

02:28:09.860 mean

02:28:10.040 there's

02:28:10.260 just a

02:28:10.680 cold-blooded

02:28:11.540 aspect

02:28:12.080 from

02:28:12.800 beginning

02:28:13.180 to end

02:28:13.800 about

02:28:14.220 all of

02:28:14.780 this

02:28:15.080 and

02:28:15.420 what

02:28:15.700 he

02:28:15.860 remembers

02:28:16.380 about

02:28:16.960 what

02:28:17.580 her

02:28:17.720 face

02:28:18.020 looked

02:28:18.280 like

02:28:18.700 what

02:28:19.200 he

02:28:19.320 remembers

02:28:19.880 about

02:28:20.320 the

02:28:20.540 blood

02:28:21.120 in

02:28:21.340 her

02:28:21.500 eyes

02:28:21.940 that's

02:28:22.940 that's

02:28:24.080 not

02:28:24.260 somebody

02:28:24.760 that

02:28:25.360 truly

02:28:26.300 empathized

02:28:27.080 with

02:28:27.280 her

02:28:27.520 that

02:28:27.780 loved

02:28:28.220 her

02:28:28.520 that's

02:28:29.200 really

02:28:29.420 someone

02:28:29.860 that

02:28:30.460 had

02:28:30.800 great

02:28:31.120 hatred

02:28:31.460 and

02:28:31.700 disdain

02:28:32.260 for

02:28:32.660 her

02:28:32.940 so

02:28:33.460 the

02:28:33.620 hatred

02:28:34.040 and again

02:28:34.760 when you

02:28:35.800 see

02:28:36.060 hatred

02:28:36.460 in a

02:28:36.900 case

02:28:37.240 it

02:28:37.480 takes

02:28:37.760 you

02:28:37.900 down

02:28:38.080 a

02:28:38.220 different

02:28:38.440 path

02:28:39.000 because

02:28:39.740 there's

02:28:40.140 only

02:28:40.380 two

02:28:40.620 things

02:28:40.920 you

02:28:41.060 can

02:28:41.200 do

02:28:41.400 when

02:28:41.620 you

02:28:41.760 hate

02:28:42.060 another

02:28:42.400 human

02:28:42.740 being

02:28:43.140 and

02:28:43.540 hatred

02:28:43.780 takes

02:28:44.100 time

02:28:44.480 to

02:28:44.700 develop

02:28:45.060 the

02:28:45.600 only

02:28:45.780 two

02:28:46.000 things

02:28:46.260 that

02:28:46.420 you

02:28:46.560 can

02:28:46.720 do

02:28:47.040 is

02:28:47.600 you

02:28:47.760 can

02:28:48.000 destroy

02:28:48.500 them

02:28:48.920 or

02:28:49.400 you

02:28:49.560 can

02:28:49.820 remove

02:28:50.840 yourself

02:28:51.220 completely

02:28:51.720 from

02:28:52.040 them

02:28:52.260 hatred

02:28:52.600 gives

02:28:52.980 you

02:28:53.200 very

02:28:53.560 few

02:28:54.040 options

02:28:54.920 if

02:28:55.480 that's

02:28:56.080 how

02:28:56.220 you

02:28:56.380 feel

02:28:56.680 about

02:28:56.880 another

02:28:57.180 human

02:28:57.480 being

02:28:57.840 and

02:28:58.360 what

02:28:58.580 he's

02:28:58.900 describing

02:28:59.420 is

02:28:59.960 almost

02:29:00.320 he's

02:29:00.660 describing

02:29:01.240 someone

02:29:01.680 that's

02:29:01.960 not

02:29:02.180 human

02:29:02.560 but

02:29:03.420 what

02:29:03.640 it's

02:29:04.220 his

02:29:04.460 wife

02:29:05.060 it's

02:29:05.460 the

02:29:05.620 mother

02:29:05.800 of

02:29:06.000 his

02:29:06.160 children

02:29:06.500 and

02:29:06.720 yet

02:29:06.900 he's

02:29:07.120 describing

02:29:07.660 her

02:29:08.000 as

02:29:08.680 someone

02:29:09.120 that's

02:29:10.000 almost

02:29:10.560 a

02:29:10.780 monster

02:29:11.200 yes

02:29:12.860 because

02:29:13.080 he goes

02:29:13.460 on

02:29:13.680 in

02:29:13.780 this

02:29:13.940 letter

02:29:14.220 he

02:29:15.440 dumped

02:29:15.900 his

02:29:16.400 wife's

02:29:16.920 body

02:29:17.280 in

02:29:17.780 a

02:29:18.000 shallow

02:29:18.560 grave

02:29:19.020 that

02:29:19.220 he

02:29:19.380 dug

02:29:19.660 at

02:29:19.880 the

02:29:20.000 oil

02:29:20.220 site

02:29:20.600 and

02:29:22.780 he

02:29:22.960 writes

02:29:23.380 I

02:29:24.260 he

02:29:24.900 says

02:29:25.180 when

02:29:26.060 I

02:29:26.220 dug

02:29:26.420 the

02:29:26.600 hole

02:29:26.820 it

02:29:27.020 seemed

02:29:27.300 a lot

02:29:27.600 deeper

02:29:27.860 than

02:29:28.080 it

02:29:28.200 was

02:29:28.600 as

02:29:28.880 I

02:29:29.000 pulled

02:29:29.260 on

02:29:29.400 the

02:29:29.540 sheet

02:29:29.820 she

02:29:30.140 rolled

02:29:30.460 out

02:29:30.700 and

02:29:30.900 into

02:29:31.120 the

02:29:31.320 hole

02:29:31.600 I

02:29:32.500 think

02:29:32.780 she

02:29:32.960 had

02:29:33.120 given

02:29:33.360 birth

02:29:33.840 she

02:29:34.960 landed

02:29:35.340 face

02:29:35.740 down

02:29:36.040 I

02:29:36.240 remember

02:29:36.580 being

02:29:36.820 so

02:29:37.100 angry

02:29:37.440 with

02:29:37.680 her

02:29:37.900 that

02:29:38.320 I

02:29:41.200 the

02:29:41.440 same

02:29:41.780 guy

02:29:42.280 who

02:29:43.180 wrote

02:29:43.400 those

02:29:43.640 texts

02:29:44.180 a

02:29:44.940 few

02:29:45.220 weeks

02:29:45.620 earlier

02:29:46.040 I'm

02:29:46.720 so

02:29:47.040 so

02:29:47.300 so

02:29:47.500 so

02:29:47.700 so

02:29:47.900 sorry

02:29:48.380 you

02:29:49.340 know

02:29:49.420 the

02:29:49.620 sweet

02:29:50.260 compliant

02:29:51.260 docile

02:29:52.180 Chris

02:29:52.800 this

02:29:53.840 is

02:29:54.320 that

02:29:54.720 guy

02:29:55.260 who

02:29:56.120 loathed

02:29:57.300 her

02:29:57.440 so

02:29:57.760 much

02:29:58.200 he

02:29:58.760 murdered

02:29:59.180 her

02:29:59.540 he

02:29:59.980 couldn't

02:30:00.160 be

02:30:00.320 bothered

02:30:00.600 to

02:30:00.880 flip

02:30:01.180 her

02:30:01.400 right

02:30:01.680 side

02:30:02.020 up

02:30:02.380 and

02:30:02.800 talked

02:30:03.140 about

02:30:03.500 his

02:30:04.160 dead

02:30:04.480 baby

02:30:04.940 as

02:30:05.980 if

02:30:06.140 it

02:30:06.280 was

02:30:06.460 an

02:30:06.680 absolute

02:30:07.180 nothing

02:30:07.700 a piece

02:30:08.080 of

02:30:08.220 trash

02:30:08.700 and

02:30:11.660 and

02:30:12.000 basically

02:30:12.600 his

02:30:12.940 words

02:30:13.500 really

02:30:15.100 defy

02:30:15.640 him

02:30:15.840 that's

02:30:16.160 exactly

02:30:16.600 what

02:30:16.880 it

02:30:17.000 was

02:30:17.200 and

02:30:17.320 he

02:30:17.480 hated

02:30:17.780 her

02:30:18.120 meaning

02:30:18.840 Shanann

02:30:19.320 so

02:30:20.120 much

02:30:20.760 that

02:30:21.120 he

02:30:21.320 wouldn't

02:30:22.300 lean

02:30:22.940 over

02:30:23.400 into

02:30:23.760 the

02:30:24.000 grave

02:30:24.320 he dug

02:30:24.720 for

02:30:24.940 her

02:30:25.100 and

02:30:25.320 turn

02:30:25.560 her

02:30:25.740 over

02:30:26.080 and

02:30:26.400 he

02:30:26.760 comments

02:30:27.160 that

02:30:27.420 he

02:30:27.640 thinks

02:30:27.920 that

02:30:28.220 she

02:30:28.860 gave

02:30:29.140 birth

02:30:29.540 this

02:30:30.300 is

02:30:30.780 he's

02:30:31.160 speaking

02:30:31.540 about

02:30:31.920 somebody

02:30:32.500 that's

02:30:32.820 a

02:30:32.940 non-human

02:30:33.620 object

02:30:34.340 he's

02:30:34.980 not

02:30:35.320 in

02:30:35.840 that

02:30:36.000 non-human

02:30:36.900 perception

02:30:37.580 of

02:30:37.980 somebody

02:30:38.500 is

02:30:38.940 consistent

02:30:39.460 with

02:30:39.800 hatred

02:30:40.160 so

02:30:40.680 again

02:30:41.520 we

02:30:41.920 see

02:30:42.120 the

02:30:42.300 same

02:30:42.600 very

02:30:43.000 cold

02:30:43.500 blooded

02:30:43.960 features

02:30:44.380 as

02:30:45.220 he's

02:30:45.580 reliving

02:30:46.200 having

02:30:47.420 putting

02:30:47.960 her

02:30:48.160 in

02:30:48.280 the

02:30:48.400 grave

02:30:48.760 and

02:30:49.020 and

02:30:49.500 seeing

02:30:49.860 you know

02:30:50.440 the fact

02:30:50.840 that

02:30:51.040 she's

02:30:51.340 rolled

02:30:51.580 over

02:30:51.840 and

02:30:52.000 she's

02:30:52.220 probably

02:30:52.540 given

02:30:52.860 birth

02:30:53.220 already

02:30:53.600 and

02:30:54.160 then

02:30:54.360 he

02:30:54.540 covers

02:30:54.860 her

02:30:55.020 up

02:30:55.180 and

02:30:55.320 walks

02:30:55.600 away

02:30:55.960 it

02:30:56.460 really

02:30:56.700 doesn't

02:30:57.180 get

02:30:57.520 any

02:30:57.820 more

02:30:58.240 hateful

02:30:58.860 than

02:30:59.000 that

02:30:59.240 and

02:30:59.480 that

02:30:59.680 really

02:31:00.180 goes

02:31:00.620 to

02:31:00.840 that

02:31:01.080 lack

02:31:01.420 of

02:31:01.600 feeling

02:31:01.960 and

02:31:02.220 emotion

02:31:02.720 and

02:31:02.960 that

02:31:03.140 ability

02:31:03.600 to

02:31:08.500 how

02:31:08.900 is

02:31:09.060 this

02:31:09.240 person

02:31:09.520 walking

02:31:09.900 amongst

02:31:10.480 us

02:31:10.760 in

02:31:10.900 society

02:31:11.400 and

02:31:11.720 people

02:31:12.500 aren't

02:31:12.940 knowing

02:31:13.480 he's

02:31:14.360 this

02:31:14.580 man

02:31:14.860 how

02:31:15.160 does

02:31:15.500 this

02:31:15.660 person

02:31:15.880 go to

02:31:16.120 the

02:31:16.260 CVS

02:31:16.720 and

02:31:16.880 collect

02:31:17.140 his

02:31:17.300 prescription

02:31:17.620 from

02:31:17.900 the

02:31:18.040 pharmacist

02:31:18.500 or

02:31:19.020 interact

02:31:19.400 with

02:31:19.620 the

02:31:19.740 mailman

02:31:20.140 or

02:31:20.500 have

02:31:20.760 any

02:31:21.220 friendly

02:31:22.040 relations

02:31:22.580 in

02:31:23.260 life

02:31:24.600 you know

02:31:24.960 how

02:31:25.440 is

02:31:25.620 it

02:31:25.740 not

02:31:25.980 that

02:31:26.220 like

02:31:26.460 we

02:31:26.940 have

02:31:27.060 a

02:31:27.180 sea

02:31:27.320 of

02:31:27.440 people

02:31:27.620 coming

02:31:27.860 forward

02:31:28.100 to

02:31:28.240 say

02:31:28.500 he's

02:31:29.320 a

02:31:29.480 psychopath

02:31:29.820 and

02:31:30.100 we

02:31:30.220 all

02:31:30.480 knew

02:31:30.680 that

02:31:31.040 like

02:31:31.300 we

02:31:31.440 all

02:31:31.800 said

02:31:32.220 this

02:31:32.480 guy

02:31:32.640 is

02:31:32.720 going

02:31:32.840 to

02:31:32.960 snap

02:31:33.320 he's

02:31:33.740 a

02:31:33.880 bad

02:31:34.180 guy

02:31:34.400 that's

02:31:34.840 not

02:31:35.040 what

02:31:35.240 happened

02:31:35.660 no

02:31:37.960 it's

02:31:38.240 not

02:31:38.400 what

02:31:38.580 happened

02:31:38.800 he

02:31:38.960 did

02:31:39.140 not

02:31:39.400 snap

02:31:39.780 and

02:31:39.920 I

02:31:40.060 don't

02:31:40.260 think

02:31:40.440 that

02:31:40.600 this

02:31:40.800 man

02:31:41.140 meets

02:31:42.120 the

02:31:42.300 features

02:31:42.700 of

02:31:42.960 psychopathy

02:31:43.720 they're

02:31:44.020 not

02:31:44.240 there

02:31:44.520 I

02:31:44.640 didn't

02:31:44.820 think

02:31:45.020 that

02:31:45.160 they

02:31:45.300 were

02:31:45.420 there

02:31:45.600 at

02:31:45.720 the

02:31:45.840 time

02:31:46.240 because

02:31:46.560 that

02:31:46.840 but

02:31:47.460 it

02:31:47.620 doesn't

02:31:48.020 mean

02:31:48.500 that

02:31:49.120 he

02:31:49.280 can't

02:31:49.640 have

02:31:49.860 this

02:31:50.080 cold

02:31:50.480 blooded

02:31:50.940 side

02:31:51.260 to

02:31:51.480 him

02:31:51.820 where

02:31:52.580 he's

02:31:52.980 made

02:31:53.200 the

02:31:53.380 decision

02:31:53.760 that

02:32:02.220 the

02:32:02.480 two

02:32:02.680 babies

02:32:03.100 so

02:32:03.500 he's

02:32:04.180 able

02:32:04.420 to

02:32:04.900 reconcile

02:32:05.680 that

02:32:06.160 this

02:32:06.360 is

02:32:06.500 what

02:32:06.720 he

02:32:06.860 has

02:32:07.180 to

02:32:07.360 do

02:32:07.740 but

02:32:08.200 I

02:32:08.320 think

02:32:08.480 walking

02:32:08.900 around

02:32:09.360 in

02:32:09.820 life

02:32:10.260 and

02:32:10.440 going

02:32:10.640 to

02:32:10.820 the

02:32:11.020 store

02:32:11.460 and

02:32:11.740 interacting

02:32:12.220 with

02:32:12.500 people

02:32:12.860 he's

02:32:13.500 just

02:32:13.740 not

02:32:13.980 putting

02:32:14.260 out

02:32:14.520 a lot

02:32:14.820 of

02:32:14.940 emotion

02:32:15.360 people

02:32:16.060 that

02:32:16.280 will

02:32:16.460 describe

02:32:16.960 him

02:32:17.220 will

02:32:17.480 say

02:32:17.800 yeah

02:32:18.320 he

02:32:18.400 was

02:32:18.520 a

02:32:18.640 nice

02:32:18.820 guy

02:32:19.060 didn't

02:32:19.300 know

02:32:19.500 him

02:32:19.620 very

02:32:19.840 well

02:32:20.100 he

02:32:20.220 kept

02:32:20.460 him

02:32:20.600 himself

02:32:21.020 he

02:32:21.180 was

02:32:21.280 kind

02:32:21.500 of

02:32:21.620 quiet

02:32:22.020 and

02:32:22.680 that's

02:32:22.920 by

02:32:23.060 design

02:32:23.480 that's

02:32:32.220 to

02:32:32.560 realize

02:32:33.020 how

02:32:33.220 do

02:32:33.360 they

02:32:33.540 handle

02:32:34.480 what's

02:32:34.880 going

02:32:35.100 on

02:32:35.340 in

02:32:35.480 everyday

02:32:35.760 life

02:32:36.300 do

02:32:37.020 they

02:32:37.240 engage

02:32:37.760 in

02:32:37.960 domestic

02:32:38.340 violence

02:32:38.840 do

02:32:39.140 they

02:32:39.400 engage

02:32:41.060 in

02:32:41.620 acting

02:32:41.980 out

02:32:42.220 in

02:32:42.340 violent

02:32:42.660 ways

02:32:43.120 or

02:32:43.300 really

02:32:43.500 passive

02:32:44.000 aggressive

02:32:44.440 ways

02:32:45.020 it

02:32:45.540 really

02:32:45.680 becomes

02:32:46.060 important

02:32:46.520 to try

02:32:46.960 to

02:32:47.240 understand

02:32:48.960 that

02:32:49.400 and

02:32:49.520 to

02:32:49.640 measure

02:32:49.900 that

02:32:50.300 the

02:32:53.600 murder

02:32:53.880 of the

02:32:54.180 daughters

02:32:54.500 is

02:32:54.860 almost

02:32:55.560 unspeakable

02:32:56.260 I

02:32:58.060 don't

02:32:59.020 know

02:32:59.780 that we

02:33:00.060 can ever

02:33:00.380 understand

02:33:00.780 it

02:33:01.000 that's

02:33:01.200 what

02:33:01.320 I'm

02:33:01.440 trying

02:33:01.660 to

02:33:01.800 do

02:33:01.960 that's

02:33:02.180 my

02:33:02.320 futile

02:33:02.600 mission

02:33:02.940 to

02:33:03.340 understand

02:33:03.900 he

02:33:05.100 says

02:33:05.720 in

02:33:05.900 the

02:33:06.040 letter

02:33:06.280 that

02:33:06.980 his

02:33:07.100 daughters

02:33:07.320 walked

02:33:07.580 in

02:33:07.740 on

02:33:07.880 him

02:33:08.040 as

02:33:08.160 he

02:33:08.240 was

02:33:08.380 wrapping

02:33:08.680 Shanann

02:33:09.040 in

02:33:09.180 a

02:33:09.280 bed

02:33:09.440 sheet

02:33:09.680 that

02:33:10.600 he

02:33:10.720 drove

02:33:11.140 to

02:33:11.340 the

02:33:11.480 oil

02:33:11.700 site

02:33:12.000 where

02:33:12.200 he

02:33:12.340 buried

02:33:12.620 Shanann

02:33:13.040 and

02:33:13.800 it

02:33:13.880 was

02:33:14.000 there

02:33:14.220 that

02:33:14.440 he

02:33:14.680 smothered

02:33:15.500 Cece

02:33:15.780 first

02:33:16.240 the

02:33:16.580 little

02:33:16.840 girl

02:33:17.520 and

02:33:17.800 then

02:33:18.020 he

02:33:18.180 went

02:33:18.360 for

02:33:18.540 Bella

02:33:18.760 the

02:33:18.940 four-year-old

02:33:19.500 forgive

02:33:21.160 me

02:33:21.340 this is

02:33:21.660 so

02:33:21.840 dark

02:33:22.200 again

02:33:22.800 an

02:33:23.120 audience

02:33:23.560 warning

02:33:31.440 a

02:33:31.580 fight

02:33:31.900 I

02:33:32.660 will

02:33:32.820 hear

02:33:33.060 her

02:33:33.260 soft

02:33:33.540 little

02:33:33.720 voice

02:33:34.020 for

02:33:34.160 the

02:33:34.280 rest

02:33:34.460 of

02:33:34.560 my

02:33:34.680 life

02:33:34.920 saying

02:33:35.220 daddy

02:33:35.620 no

02:33:36.120 she

02:33:37.200 knew

02:33:37.460 what

02:33:37.640 I

02:33:37.760 was

02:33:37.900 doing

02:33:38.140 to

02:33:38.300 her

02:33:38.480 she

02:33:38.720 may

02:33:38.900 not

02:33:39.040 have

02:33:39.140 understood

02:33:39.440 death

02:33:39.940 but

02:33:40.620 she

02:33:40.780 knew

02:33:41.140 I

02:33:41.880 was

02:33:42.040 killing

02:33:42.440 her

02:33:42.740 I

02:33:44.300 can't

02:33:45.000 reconcile

02:33:47.800 the fact

02:33:48.360 that there

02:33:48.700 are people

02:33:49.180 like this

02:33:49.580 on this

02:33:49.880 earth

02:33:50.200 sharing

02:33:50.700 space

02:33:51.120 with

02:33:51.380 me

02:33:52.120 my

02:33:52.440 family

02:33:52.880 my

02:33:53.920 audience

02:33:54.320 you

02:33:54.740 I

02:33:55.680 can't

02:33:55.980 reconcile

02:33:56.340 it

02:33:56.720 I

02:33:57.020 can

02:33:57.600 understand

02:33:58.300 Charles

02:33:58.760 Manson

02:33:59.200 I

02:33:59.820 can

02:33:59.980 understand

02:34:00.360 Jeffrey

02:34:00.720 Dahmer

02:34:01.440 I

02:34:01.780 see

02:34:02.020 them

02:34:02.300 I

02:34:02.440 say

02:34:02.660 lunatic

02:34:03.260 got

02:34:03.620 it

02:34:03.780 I

02:34:04.000 would

02:34:04.160 notice

02:34:04.420 to

02:34:04.540 you're

02:34:04.640 clear

02:34:04.880 this

02:34:05.580 guy

02:34:05.940 was

02:34:06.760 kind

02:34:06.980 of

02:34:07.060 a

02:34:07.140 good

02:34:07.240 looking

02:34:07.460 guy

02:34:07.860 had

02:34:08.260 a

02:34:08.400 decent

02:34:08.620 job

02:34:09.120 had

02:34:09.560 a

02:34:09.660 beautiful

02:34:09.880 family

02:34:10.380 he

02:34:10.880 didn't

02:34:11.140 have

02:34:11.280 some

02:34:11.420 history

02:34:11.780 that

02:34:11.960 we

02:34:12.060 knew

02:34:12.200 of

02:34:12.360 hurting

02:34:13.060 people

02:34:13.380 or

02:34:13.560 animals

02:34:13.940 how

02:34:15.200 can

02:34:15.420 this

02:34:16.080 monster

02:34:17.440 monster

02:34:18.600 how

02:34:20.720 can

02:34:20.880 I

02:34:21.000 spot

02:34:21.260 the

02:34:21.460 next

02:34:21.720 one

02:34:21.960 I

02:34:22.180 guess

02:34:22.360 is

02:34:22.480 what

02:34:22.620 I'm

02:34:22.780 asking

02:34:23.040 you

02:34:23.220 Mary

02:34:23.380 Ellen

02:34:23.560 what

02:34:24.780 good

02:34:25.120 can

02:34:25.300 come

02:34:25.540 from

02:34:25.760 this

02:34:26.020 that

02:34:26.220 can

02:34:26.380 prevent

02:34:26.840 this

02:34:27.940 I

02:34:28.380 can't

02:34:28.980 live

02:34:29.760 without

02:34:30.320 an

02:34:30.500 answer

02:34:30.780 let me

02:34:33.560 say it

02:34:34.060 this way

02:34:35.440 we cannot

02:34:36.600 look at

02:34:37.280 somebody

02:34:37.780 and just

02:34:38.900 tell

02:34:39.480 that they

02:34:40.700 are

02:34:41.320 going to

02:34:42.180 be

02:34:42.680 dangerous

02:34:43.580 we just

02:34:44.100 can't

02:34:44.480 do it

02:34:44.900 you can

02:34:45.940 see people

02:34:46.400 on the

02:34:46.780 street

02:34:47.100 that are

02:34:47.720 scary

02:34:48.060 looking

02:34:48.400 but

02:34:48.880 unwashed

02:34:50.920 hair

02:34:51.300 or

02:34:52.000 frumpy

02:34:52.660 clothes

02:34:53.180 living

02:34:53.440 on

02:34:53.660 a

02:34:53.880 homeless

02:34:54.160 lifestyle

02:34:54.780 does

02:34:55.560 not

02:34:55.780 correlate

02:34:56.140 to

02:34:56.460 being

02:34:57.120 violent

02:34:57.580 it

02:34:57.820 just

02:34:58.000 doesn't

02:34:58.520 but

02:34:58.800 we

02:34:59.120 grow

02:34:59.520 up

02:34:59.900 thinking

02:35:00.340 that

02:35:01.200 we

02:35:01.340 can

02:35:01.520 look

02:35:01.760 at

02:35:01.940 someone

02:35:02.280 and

02:35:02.620 we

02:35:02.820 can

02:35:02.960 just

02:35:03.200 tell

02:35:03.600 they're

02:35:03.860 going

02:35:04.040 to

02:35:04.140 be

02:35:04.280 dangerous

02:35:04.740 if

02:35:05.260 someone

02:35:05.520 has

02:35:05.720 a

02:35:05.840 good

02:35:05.980 job

02:35:06.340 if

02:35:06.500 they

02:35:06.620 go

02:35:06.760 to

02:35:06.920 church

02:35:07.280 if

02:35:07.460 they

02:35:07.560 like

02:35:07.800 animals

02:35:08.340 if

02:35:09.120 they

02:35:09.480 have

02:35:10.060 children

02:35:10.580 those

02:35:12.140 are

02:35:12.320 all

02:35:12.660 features

02:35:13.200 that

02:35:13.480 we

02:35:13.740 believe

02:35:14.420 make

02:35:15.960 them

02:35:16.160 safe

02:35:16.680 make

02:35:17.220 them

02:35:17.600 harmless

02:35:18.420 that

02:35:19.380 couldn't

02:35:19.740 be

02:35:19.960 further

02:35:20.320 from

02:35:20.860 the

02:35:21.060 truth

02:35:21.620 the

02:35:22.140 whole

02:35:22.500 idea

02:35:23.040 of

02:35:23.840 the

02:35:24.000 potential

02:35:24.480 for

02:35:24.780 dangerousness

02:35:25.680 comes

02:35:25.940 from

02:35:26.220 within

02:35:26.560 their

02:35:26.800 personalities

02:35:27.480 and

02:35:28.240 if

02:35:28.520 they

02:35:28.700 get

02:35:28.980 trapped

02:35:29.600 or

02:35:29.860 feel

02:35:30.160 they

02:35:30.340 get

02:35:30.580 trapped

02:35:31.200 or

02:35:31.500 feel

02:35:31.920 angry

02:35:32.720 and

02:35:33.400 begin

02:35:33.760 to

02:35:33.940 develop

02:35:34.260 hatred

02:35:34.700 that's

02:35:35.060 all

02:35:35.320 done

02:35:35.640 internally

02:35:36.440 but

02:35:37.200 and

02:35:38.060 it

02:35:38.260 depends

02:35:38.620 on

02:35:38.780 the

02:35:38.880 right

02:35:39.060 set

02:35:39.260 of

02:35:39.400 circumstances

02:35:39.980 so

02:35:40.580 let's

02:35:40.860 go

02:35:40.980 back

02:35:41.240 with

02:35:41.420 Chris

02:35:41.660 Watts

02:35:42.100 if

02:35:42.840 Chris

02:35:43.380 Watts

02:35:44.580 his

02:35:44.880 life

02:35:45.840 was

02:35:47.520 based

02:35:47.800 on

02:35:47.980 a

02:35:48.120 different

02:35:48.340 set

02:35:48.540 of

02:35:48.680 circumstances

02:35:49.320 he

02:35:49.940 may

02:35:50.140 never

02:35:50.600 have

02:35:50.860 murdered

02:35:51.140 anybody

02:35:51.640 he's

02:35:53.520 not

02:35:53.680 a

02:35:53.900 serial

02:35:54.300 killer

02:35:54.720 the

02:35:55.120 right

02:35:55.420 set

02:35:55.640 of

02:35:55.780 circumstances

02:35:56.420 came

02:35:56.760 together

02:35:57.200 and

02:35:58.160 he

02:35:58.900 decided

02:35:59.400 that

02:35:59.620 this

02:35:59.840 was

02:36:00.020 the

02:36:00.200 only

02:36:00.560 way

02:36:00.900 that

02:36:01.120 he

02:36:01.260 could

02:36:01.460 deal

02:36:01.680 with

02:36:01.900 it

02:36:02.080 and

02:36:02.380 the

02:36:02.520 only

02:36:02.800 way

02:36:03.160 was

02:36:03.540 to

02:36:03.820 in

02:36:04.300 my

02:36:04.560 opinion

02:36:04.940 he

02:36:05.140 was

02:36:05.320 blaming

02:36:05.780 Shanann

02:36:06.380 for

02:36:07.000 a

02:36:07.220 life

02:36:07.480 that

02:36:07.700 in

02:36:08.360 which

02:36:08.560 he

02:36:08.660 was

02:36:08.800 miserable

02:36:09.380 but

02:36:10.260 if

02:36:10.380 those

02:36:10.580 circumstances

02:36:11.240 didn't

02:36:11.680 exist

02:36:12.300 if

02:36:12.840 he

02:36:12.940 had

02:36:13.120 never

02:36:13.400 gotten

02:36:17.520 the

02:36:25.700 question

02:36:26.040 about

02:36:26.260 the

02:36:26.420 daughters

02:36:26.680 is

02:36:26.920 of

02:36:27.080 course

02:36:27.260 why

02:36:28.340 you

02:36:29.000 know

02:36:29.160 like

02:36:29.400 we

02:36:30.120 understand

02:36:30.600 sort

02:36:31.300 of

02:36:31.520 why

02:36:32.140 the

02:36:32.420 wife

02:36:32.800 you

02:36:33.540 know

02:36:33.700 yes

02:36:34.020 divorce

02:36:34.400 but

02:36:34.720 spouses

02:36:35.680 kill

02:36:36.080 their

02:36:36.380 other

02:36:36.840 spouse

02:36:37.180 sometimes

02:36:37.680 why

02:36:39.040 why

02:36:39.920 the

02:36:40.200 daughters

02:36:40.600 the

02:36:44.480 only

02:36:44.620 one

02:36:44.780 that's

02:36:44.960 really

02:36:45.200 going

02:36:45.360 to

02:36:45.440 know

02:36:45.640 that

02:36:45.940 is

02:36:46.280 Chris

02:36:46.680 and

02:36:47.220 wouldn't

02:36:48.620 you

02:36:48.740 love

02:36:48.960 to

02:36:49.080 have

02:36:49.220 the

02:36:49.380 opportunity

02:36:49.920 to

02:36:50.540 ask

02:36:51.060 him

02:36:51.340 and

02:36:51.760 with

02:36:52.400 the

02:36:52.560 hope

02:36:52.720 that

02:36:52.900 he

02:36:53.000 would

02:36:53.160 be

02:36:53.360 candid

02:36:53.760 and

02:36:54.040 truthful

02:36:54.420 with

02:36:54.860 you

02:36:55.060 so

02:36:55.480 the

02:36:56.440 only

02:36:56.640 thing

02:36:56.860 that

02:36:57.040 we

02:36:57.200 say

02:36:57.460 in

02:36:57.640 cases

02:36:57.920 like

02:36:58.220 this

02:36:58.500 is

02:36:58.800 we

02:36:59.320 have

02:36:59.520 to

02:36:59.640 look

02:36:59.780 at

02:36:59.880 the

02:37:00.000 behavior

02:37:00.540 these

02:37:01.560 little

02:37:01.780 girls

02:37:02.100 were

02:37:02.260 not

02:37:02.420 a

02:37:02.560 threat

02:37:02.760 to

02:37:02.960 him

02:37:03.240 these

02:37:03.540 little

02:37:03.800 girls

02:37:04.280 were

02:37:04.600 not

02:37:04.940 going

02:37:05.180 to

02:37:05.260 be

02:37:05.680 dangerous

02:37:07.180 but

02:37:07.600 he

02:37:07.720 killed

02:37:07.940 them

02:37:08.120 anyway

02:37:08.520 and

02:37:09.280 he

02:37:09.400 killed

02:37:09.660 them

02:37:09.800 by

02:37:09.960 looking

02:37:10.220 in

02:37:10.380 their

02:37:10.520 eyes

02:37:10.800 and

02:37:11.000 smothering

02:37:11.560 them

02:37:11.860 and

02:37:12.200 then

02:37:12.340 that's

02:37:12.620 not

02:37:12.820 even

02:37:13.120 enough

02:37:13.560 then

02:37:14.140 he

02:37:14.280 takes

02:37:14.540 them

02:37:14.680 into

02:37:14.940 these

02:37:15.660 oil

02:37:16.320 containers

02:37:16.840 and

02:37:17.200 then

02:37:17.580 drops

02:37:17.980 them

02:37:18.160 in

02:37:18.320 he

02:37:18.460 basically

02:37:18.860 wants

02:37:19.220 to

02:37:19.400 destroy

02:37:19.820 them

02:37:20.060 as

02:37:20.700 though

02:37:20.940 they

02:37:21.140 never

02:37:21.480 existed

02:37:22.200 so

02:37:23.460 think

02:37:23.840 about

02:37:24.100 that

02:37:24.420 he

02:37:25.080 wanted

02:37:25.540 them

02:37:26.060 as

02:37:26.660 though

02:37:26.920 they

02:37:27.120 never

02:37:27.420 existed

02:37:28.160 he

02:37:28.780 that

02:37:29.600 tells

02:37:29.960 me

02:37:30.400 if I

02:37:31.140 were

02:37:31.260 talking

02:37:31.600 to

02:37:31.840 him

02:37:32.060 Chris

02:37:32.460 you

02:37:32.640 never

02:37:33.020 wanted

02:37:33.920 to

02:37:34.100 be

02:37:34.220 a

02:37:34.400 dad

02:37:34.680 you

02:37:35.180 never

02:37:35.440 wanted

02:37:35.920 those

02:37:36.200 responsibilities

02:37:37.000 you

02:37:37.920 didn't

02:37:38.240 want

02:37:38.540 a

02:37:38.760 life

02:37:39.240 like

02:37:39.760 the

02:37:39.920 one

02:37:40.100 that

02:37:40.280 you

02:37:40.440 had

02:37:40.840 and

02:37:41.580 is

02:37:42.240 it

02:37:42.400 true

02:37:42.720 that

02:37:43.000 you

02:37:43.180 felt

02:37:43.540 once

02:37:44.340 you

02:37:44.540 could

02:37:44.920 get

02:37:45.340 rid

02:37:45.660 of

02:37:45.840 every

02:37:46.360 memory

02:37:47.160 of

02:37:47.440 those

02:37:47.680 girls

02:37:48.060 and

02:37:48.580 who

02:37:48.720 they

02:37:48.900 were

02:37:49.260 you

02:37:49.900 could

02:37:50.080 get

02:37:50.280 back

02:37:50.520 some

02:37:50.760 control

02:37:51.260 of

02:37:51.460 a

02:37:51.580 life

02:37:51.780 that

02:37:51.960 you

02:37:52.100 wanted

02:37:52.420 that

02:37:53.200 may

02:37:53.480 be

02:37:53.600 the

02:37:53.760 approach

02:37:54.040 I

02:37:54.200 would

02:37:54.320 take

02:37:54.560 with

02:37:54.740 them

02:37:54.960 because

02:37:55.320 he

02:37:55.660 was

02:37:55.880 trying

02:37:56.100 to

02:37:56.280 destroy

02:37:56.660 them

02:37:57.000 physically

02:37:58.040 take

02:37:59.240 their

02:37:59.400 life

02:37:59.720 away

02:38:00.100 and

02:38:00.340 that's

02:38:00.560 the

02:38:00.680 way

02:38:00.780 to

02:38:00.920 do

02:38:01.060 it

02:38:01.180 that's

02:38:01.420 what

02:38:01.540 he

02:38:01.660 did

02:38:02.000 yeah

02:38:03.200 that's

02:38:03.720 interesting

02:38:04.040 so the

02:38:04.360 discarding

02:38:04.940 the way

02:38:05.260 in which

02:38:05.560 he

02:38:05.700 discarded

02:38:06.080 the

02:38:06.260 daughter's

02:38:06.660 bodies

02:38:06.980 which

02:38:07.240 is

02:38:07.420 one

02:38:07.840 of

02:38:07.900 the

02:38:08.000 most

02:38:08.160 gruesome

02:38:08.580 parts

02:38:09.360 of

02:38:09.480 the

02:38:09.620 story

02:38:09.960 dropping

02:38:11.340 them

02:38:11.580 in

02:38:11.700 these

02:38:11.980 neighboring

02:38:13.100 oil

02:38:13.480 tanks

02:38:13.900 talking

02:38:14.780 about

02:38:21.260 oil

02:38:21.520 was

02:38:21.760 in

02:38:21.880 each

02:38:22.220 tank

02:38:22.620 not

02:38:23.620 even

02:38:23.980 together

02:38:24.400 not

02:38:24.860 even

02:38:25.040 in

02:38:25.160 the

02:38:25.280 same

02:38:25.480 tank

02:38:25.840 shoved

02:38:26.480 them

02:38:26.640 through

02:38:26.780 this

02:38:26.960 little

02:38:27.200 hole

02:38:27.500 I

02:38:27.640 mean

02:38:27.780 she's

02:38:28.200 shoving

02:38:28.480 his

02:38:28.660 dead

02:38:28.900 daughters

02:38:29.560 it's

02:38:30.880 just

02:38:31.120 it just

02:38:32.480 shows

02:38:32.720 you

02:38:32.880 the

02:38:33.140 level

02:38:33.800 of

02:38:33.980 callousness

02:38:34.420 this

02:38:34.560 is

02:38:34.700 not

02:38:35.060 I

02:38:36.060 snapped

02:38:36.600 I

02:38:37.720 found

02:38:37.960 out

02:38:38.100 my

02:38:38.220 wife

02:38:38.380 was

02:38:38.500 having

02:38:38.700 an

02:38:38.860 affair

02:38:39.160 and

02:38:39.400 I

02:38:39.520 shot

02:38:39.800 her

02:38:40.060 not

02:38:41.020 excusing

02:38:41.600 that

02:38:41.800 obviously

02:38:42.180 this

02:38:42.780 is

02:38:42.920 something

02:38:43.240 this

02:38:43.620 is

02:38:43.740 just

02:38:43.880 a

02:38:44.080 whole

02:38:44.420 other

02:38:44.840 level

02:38:45.360 of

02:38:45.760 evil

02:38:46.680 and

02:38:47.100 anger

02:38:47.480 and

02:38:47.700 you're

02:38:47.940 saying

02:38:48.340 same

02:38:49.060 as

02:38:49.180 we

02:38:49.380 interviewed

02:38:49.800 another

02:38:50.040 great

02:38:50.400 great

02:38:50.620 expert

02:38:50.900 who

02:38:51.100 is

02:38:51.220 also

02:38:51.480 saying

02:38:51.820 he

02:38:52.400 doesn't

02:38:53.680 look

02:38:54.500 like

02:38:54.640 a

02:38:54.760 psychopath

02:38:55.100 and

02:38:56.400 that's

02:38:56.840 what's

02:38:57.840 most

02:38:58.060 terrifying

02:38:58.540 so

02:38:58.780 it's

02:38:59.000 hatred

02:38:59.480 it's

02:39:00.340 loathing

02:39:00.920 of the

02:39:01.200 life

02:39:01.420 that

02:39:01.600 you're

02:39:01.820 in

02:39:02.220 and

02:39:03.100 we

02:39:03.380 may

02:39:03.620 not

02:39:03.820 have

02:39:04.040 a

02:39:04.160 bunch

02:39:04.360 of

02:39:04.540 red

02:39:04.740 flags

02:39:05.240 other

02:39:05.880 than

02:39:06.320 maybe

02:39:07.160 he

02:39:07.300 doesn't

02:39:07.560 express

02:39:07.880 his

02:39:08.100 anger

02:39:08.400 maybe

02:39:09.660 he's

02:39:09.920 got

02:39:10.080 controlling

02:39:10.520 behaviors

02:39:11.120 possibly

02:39:12.280 domestic

02:39:13.000 violence

02:39:13.440 that you

02:39:13.760 may or

02:39:14.080 may not

02:39:14.380 know

02:39:14.620 about

02:39:15.020 God

02:39:15.700 that's

02:39:15.920 not

02:39:16.080 much

02:39:16.280 to

02:39:16.440 go

02:39:16.680 on

02:39:17.000 no

02:39:19.240 not

02:39:19.520 as

02:39:19.760 observers

02:39:20.280 from

02:39:20.660 the

02:39:20.800 outside

02:39:21.720 looking

02:39:22.280 in

02:39:22.720 but

02:39:23.200 if

02:39:24.840 Shanann

02:39:25.240 were

02:39:25.460 here

02:39:25.780 with

02:39:25.960 us

02:39:26.160 today

02:39:26.700 we

02:39:27.940 certainly

02:39:28.320 want

02:39:28.560 to

02:39:28.660 ask

02:39:28.900 her

02:39:29.040 questions

02:39:29.540 about

02:39:30.000 that

02:39:30.780 some

02:39:31.140 of

02:39:31.240 that

02:39:31.400 behavior

02:39:31.940 that

02:39:32.580 kind

02:39:33.560 of

02:39:33.680 evolved

02:39:34.320 over

02:39:35.020 the

02:39:35.280 years

02:39:35.620 that

02:39:35.780 they

02:39:35.900 were

02:39:36.080 married

02:39:36.420 it

02:39:37.460 seems

02:39:37.800 pretty

02:39:38.040 clear

02:39:38.340 to

02:39:38.500 me

02:39:38.680 that

02:39:38.920 he

02:39:39.740 saw

02:39:40.300 Shanann

02:39:40.940 as

02:39:41.160 the

02:39:41.320 enemy

02:39:41.640 she

02:39:42.400 was

02:39:42.620 the

02:39:42.800 cause

02:39:43.220 for

02:39:43.520 his

02:39:43.860 being

02:39:44.240 miserable

02:39:44.720 she

02:39:45.140 was

02:39:45.340 the

02:39:45.540 cause

02:39:45.900 for

02:39:46.220 his

02:39:46.720 feeling

02:39:47.080 trapped

02:39:47.660 he

02:39:47.940 she

02:39:48.480 was

02:39:48.700 the

02:39:48.900 cause

02:39:49.360 for

02:39:49.780 how

02:39:50.640 he

02:39:50.800 viewed

02:39:51.020 life

02:39:51.480 is

02:39:51.800 true

02:39:52.260 of

02:39:52.520 course

02:39:52.820 not

02:39:53.420 he's

02:39:53.740 an

02:39:53.860 adult

02:39:54.140 male

02:39:54.480 but

02:39:55.120 the

02:39:55.280 way

02:39:55.440 he

02:39:55.620 viewed

02:39:55.980 it

02:39:56.200 is

02:39:56.480 is

02:39:56.780 I

02:39:56.940 think

02:39:57.140 that

02:39:57.360 that

02:39:57.940 component

02:39:58.480 you

02:39:59.120 know

02:39:59.220 had

02:39:59.620 to

02:39:59.780 be

02:39:59.940 there

02:40:00.260 and

02:40:00.480 those

02:40:00.760 children

02:40:01.440 were

02:40:01.780 anchors

02:40:02.240 around

02:40:02.540 his

02:40:02.760 neck

02:40:03.120 in

02:40:03.760 order

02:40:04.040 to

02:40:04.280 move

02:40:04.500 forward

02:40:04.940 he

02:40:05.260 had

02:40:05.520 to

02:40:05.680 start

02:40:05.980 over

02:40:06.260 again

02:40:06.660 I

02:40:07.180 remember

02:40:07.400 I

02:40:07.940 had

02:40:08.140 cases

02:40:08.580 where

02:40:09.100 the

02:40:10.140 spouse

02:40:11.140 would

02:40:11.780 take

02:40:12.000 the

02:40:12.140 other

02:40:12.280 spouse

02:40:12.600 up

02:40:12.820 to

02:40:13.280 a

02:40:15.520 mountain

02:40:16.360 side

02:40:16.800 and

02:40:17.080 then

02:40:17.520 they

02:40:17.680 would

02:40:17.820 push

02:40:18.080 the

02:40:18.280 spouse

02:40:18.560 over

02:40:18.880 and

02:40:19.040 those

02:40:19.200 were

02:40:19.320 really

02:40:19.540 hard

02:40:19.800 cases

02:40:20.180 to

02:40:20.560 really

02:40:21.940 investigate

02:40:22.520 but

02:40:23.160 as

02:40:23.420 you

02:40:23.520 begin

02:40:23.760 to

02:40:23.940 unravel

02:40:24.460 that

02:40:25.000 and

02:40:25.520 it

02:40:25.600 was

02:40:25.740 different

02:40:26.020 from

02:40:26.260 this

02:40:26.480 but

02:40:26.680 still

02:40:26.920 some

02:40:27.200 of

02:40:27.320 the

02:40:27.440 components

02:40:27.860 are

02:40:28.060 the

02:40:28.220 same

02:40:28.400 as

02:40:28.580 you

02:40:28.680 begin

02:40:28.920 to

02:40:29.120 unravel

02:40:29.720 it

02:40:29.940 you

02:40:30.320 see

02:40:30.580 the

02:40:30.800 same

02:40:31.120 kind

02:40:31.420 of

02:40:31.520 emotional

02:40:32.160 changing

02:40:32.840 they

02:40:33.520 started

02:40:33.940 to

02:40:34.220 live

02:40:34.980 their

02:40:35.140 life

02:40:35.440 over

02:40:35.900 again

02:40:36.280 they

02:40:36.480 started

02:40:36.900 a

02:40:41.140 relationship

02:40:42.040 so

02:40:42.360 mentally

02:40:43.000 they

02:40:43.700 checked

02:40:44.100 out

02:40:44.500 months

02:40:45.080 before

02:40:45.500 they

02:40:45.740 murdered

02:40:46.080 their

02:40:46.300 spouse

02:40:46.780 and

02:40:47.400 so

02:40:47.580 the

02:40:47.820 murder

02:40:48.100 was

02:40:48.400 almost

02:40:48.880 anticlimactic

02:40:49.920 because

02:40:50.380 they

02:40:51.040 needed

02:40:51.300 to get

02:40:51.620 rid

02:40:51.820 of

02:40:51.900 the

02:40:52.020 person

02:40:52.300 that

02:40:52.480 made

02:40:52.640 their

02:40:52.760 life

02:40:52.980 miserable

02:40:53.360 they

02:40:53.600 needed

02:40:53.800 to

02:40:53.960 be

02:40:54.080 gone

02:40:54.440 completely

02:40:55.400 absolutely

02:40:56.340 gone

02:40:56.760 not

02:40:57.040 divorced

02:40:57.580 not

02:40:58.180 live

02:40:58.400 in

02:40:58.480 another

02:40:58.760 city

02:40:59.140 they

02:40:59.680 needed

02:40:59.960 to

02:41:00.120 be

02:41:00.300 gone

02:41:00.780 erased

02:41:01.960 right

02:41:02.620 so

02:41:03.740 he

02:41:04.260 winds

02:41:05.860 up

02:41:06.200 pleading

02:41:07.520 guilty

02:41:08.100 they

02:41:08.500 I mean

02:41:08.760 of course

02:41:09.220 they had

02:41:09.640 him

02:41:09.940 and that

02:41:10.760 spared

02:41:11.060 his

02:41:11.300 life

02:41:11.640 he

02:41:11.820 was

02:41:11.980 given

02:41:12.240 five

02:41:13.180 life

02:41:13.820 sentences

02:41:14.200 and

02:41:15.180 even

02:41:15.520 the

02:41:15.800 judge

02:41:16.260 Marcelo

02:41:17.360 Copcow

02:41:17.840 was

02:41:19.320 absolutely

02:41:20.780 horrified

02:41:21.620 by the

02:41:22.140 circumstances

02:41:22.640 of this

02:41:22.960 case

02:41:23.120 I mean

02:41:23.300 I

02:41:23.480 know

02:41:23.760 a lot

02:41:23.960 of

02:41:24.080 judges

02:41:24.360 been

02:41:24.760 in front

02:41:24.980 of a lot

02:41:25.240 of judges

02:41:25.540 over the

02:41:25.800 course

02:41:25.960 of my

02:41:26.120 life

02:41:26.320 it's

02:41:26.820 very

02:41:27.060 rare

02:41:27.400 that

02:41:27.680 they

02:41:28.300 offer

02:41:28.720 this

02:41:29.680 strong

02:41:29.980 a

02:41:30.120 personal

02:41:30.440 opinion

02:41:30.820 on a

02:41:31.120 case

02:41:31.400 but

02:41:31.940 here's

02:41:32.140 just

02:41:32.300 a

02:41:32.440 little

02:41:32.580 bit

02:41:32.800 of

02:41:32.900 the

02:41:33.060 judge

02:41:33.400 during

02:41:34.120 the

02:41:34.280 sentencing

02:41:34.660 hearing

02:41:34.980 November

02:41:35.260 19th

02:41:35.900 2018

02:41:36.340 I've

02:41:37.460 been

02:41:37.620 a

02:41:37.800 judicial

02:41:38.100 officer

02:41:38.500 now

02:41:38.880 for

02:41:39.460 starting

02:41:40.000 my

02:41:40.260 17th

02:41:41.080 year

02:41:41.380 and

02:41:42.780 I

02:41:43.620 could

02:41:45.300 objectively

02:41:46.780 say

02:41:47.340 that this

02:41:47.900 is

02:41:48.420 perhaps

02:41:51.260 the

02:41:51.640 most

02:41:52.060 inhumane

02:41:53.840 and

02:41:54.880 vicious

02:41:55.480 crime

02:41:56.100 that I

02:41:56.680 have

02:41:56.960 handled

02:41:57.400 out of

02:41:57.840 the

02:41:58.100 thousands

02:41:58.560 of

02:41:58.800 cases

02:41:59.100 that I

02:41:59.720 have

02:41:59.880 seen

02:42:00.180 and

02:42:01.900 nothing

02:42:02.340 less

02:42:02.860 than

02:42:03.640 a

02:42:04.620 maximum

02:42:05.400 sentence

02:42:06.380 would

02:42:09.080 be

02:42:09.240 appropriate

02:42:09.760 and

02:42:10.920 anything

02:42:11.260 less

02:42:11.640 than

02:42:11.860 the

02:42:12.020 maximum

02:42:12.440 sentence

02:42:13.200 would

02:42:13.440 depreciate

02:42:14.140 the

02:42:14.340 seriousness

02:42:14.820 of

02:42:15.240 this

02:42:15.440 offense

02:42:15.860 you

02:42:19.720 know

02:42:19.840 usually

02:42:20.200 we

02:42:20.460 have

02:42:20.600 the

02:42:20.720 death

02:42:20.880 penalty

02:42:21.200 in

02:42:21.460 part

02:42:21.700 because

02:42:21.980 we

02:42:22.160 want

02:42:22.420 to

02:42:22.840 deter

02:42:23.280 you

02:42:24.000 know

02:42:24.080 we

02:42:24.200 want

02:42:24.340 to

02:42:24.440 punish

02:42:24.760 we

02:42:25.160 also

02:42:25.360 want

02:42:25.500 to

02:42:25.600 deter

02:42:25.940 other

02:42:26.340 criminals

02:42:26.800 does

02:42:28.960 does

02:42:29.460 this

02:42:29.780 sentence

02:42:30.200 fit

02:42:30.440 the

02:42:30.600 crime

02:42:30.900 and

02:42:31.100 do

02:42:31.260 you

02:42:31.380 think

02:42:31.600 it

02:42:31.780 effectively

02:42:32.440 deters

02:42:33.120 the

02:42:33.580 next

02:42:33.840 Chris

02:42:34.200 Watts

02:42:34.520 in

02:42:37.580 my

02:42:37.740 opinion

02:42:38.060 it

02:42:38.260 fits

02:42:38.480 the

02:42:38.660 crime

02:42:38.980 do

02:42:39.240 I

02:42:39.400 think

02:42:39.640 it

02:42:39.840 will

02:42:40.240 deter

02:42:40.780 someone

02:42:41.240 else

02:42:41.520 from

02:42:41.720 doing

02:42:41.940 this

02:42:42.180 again

02:42:42.460 no

02:42:42.760 I

02:42:43.020 don't

02:42:43.500 I

02:42:44.420 don't

02:42:44.600 see

02:42:44.800 that

02:42:45.020 happening

02:42:45.540 but

02:42:45.880 in

02:42:46.080 a

02:42:46.200 case

02:42:46.420 like

02:42:46.680 this

02:42:47.120 I

02:42:47.840 always

02:42:48.100 think

02:42:48.360 about

02:42:48.660 that

02:42:48.940 when

02:42:49.160 a

02:42:49.420 person

02:42:49.660 gets

02:42:49.900 a

02:42:50.080 sentence

02:42:50.360 like

02:42:50.740 this

02:42:51.100 sitting

02:42:51.820 in

02:42:52.120 prison

02:42:52.480 you're

02:42:52.880 a

02:42:52.980 young

02:42:53.140 man

02:42:53.500 still

02:42:53.840 you

02:42:54.380 are

02:42:54.740 in

02:42:54.960 prison

02:42:55.300 for

02:42:56.500 the

02:42:56.660 rest

02:42:56.900 of

02:42:57.060 your

02:42:57.200 life

02:42:57.600 you're

02:42:57.980 never

02:42:58.340 going

02:42:58.700 anywhere

02:42:59.220 I

02:42:59.780 mean

02:42:59.880 that

02:43:00.280 is

02:43:00.480 a

02:43:00.700 profoundly

02:43:01.800 negative

02:43:03.440 profoundly

02:43:04.860 impactful

02:43:05.540 sentence

02:43:06.200 and

02:43:06.700 certainly

02:43:08.160 the judge

02:43:08.720 thought it

02:43:09.060 was

02:43:09.220 consistent

02:43:09.780 with

02:43:10.300 the

02:43:11.700 incredible

02:43:12.480 damage

02:43:13.120 that he

02:43:14.020 did

02:43:14.420 but

02:43:15.080 will

02:43:16.480 somebody

02:43:17.280 else

02:43:17.540 stop

02:43:17.840 and

02:43:17.980 think

02:43:18.200 about

02:43:18.460 Chris

02:43:18.760 Watts

02:43:19.240 if

02:43:19.940 the

02:43:20.140 right

02:43:20.400 set

02:43:20.680 of

02:43:20.820 circumstances

02:43:21.480 exist

02:43:22.180 for

02:43:22.400 them

02:43:22.660 tomorrow

02:43:23.240 will

02:43:24.300 they

02:43:24.460 think

02:43:24.700 about

02:43:24.960 Chris

02:43:25.240 Watts

02:43:25.680 and

02:43:26.620 say

02:43:26.860 to

02:43:27.000 themselves

02:43:27.480 I

02:43:27.940 better

02:43:28.100 not

02:43:28.320 do

02:43:28.500 this

02:43:28.900 and

02:43:30.040 I

02:43:30.160 would

02:43:30.300 say

02:43:30.580 to

02:43:30.820 you

02:43:31.140 I

02:43:31.820 don't

02:43:31.960 think

02:43:32.180 so

02:43:32.500 that's

02:43:33.620 not

02:43:33.820 how

02:43:34.080 the

02:43:34.400 criminal

02:43:34.680 mind

02:43:35.000 works

02:43:35.440 the

02:43:36.400 the

02:43:36.760 line

02:43:37.140 in

02:43:37.320 his

02:43:37.500 letter

02:43:37.860 to

02:43:38.100 the

02:43:38.260 pen

02:43:38.480 pal

02:43:38.780 that

02:43:39.800 I

02:43:39.920 just

02:43:40.120 read

02:43:40.400 saying

02:43:40.780 I

02:43:41.020 knew

02:43:41.420 if

02:43:41.560 I

02:43:41.640 took

02:43:41.820 my

02:43:42.000 hands

02:43:42.300 off

02:43:42.520 of

02:43:42.640 her

02:43:42.840 she

02:43:43.140 would

02:43:43.340 still

02:43:43.940 keep

02:43:44.380 me

02:43:44.640 from

02:43:44.940 Nikki

02:43:45.260 she

02:43:46.000 would

02:43:46.160 keep

02:43:46.400 me

02:43:46.520 from

02:43:46.700 Nikki

02:43:46.920 he

02:43:47.140 needed

02:43:47.400 to

02:43:47.560 be

02:43:47.720 with

02:43:47.920 the

02:43:48.040 affair

02:43:48.340 partner

02:43:48.740 he

02:43:49.120 felt

02:43:49.400 it

02:43:49.540 on

02:43:49.720 some

02:43:49.940 sort

02:43:50.180 of

02:43:50.300 primal

02:43:51.040 level

02:43:52.280 reminded

02:43:53.480 me

02:43:53.840 of

02:43:54.360 the

02:43:54.980 last

02:43:55.340 line

02:43:55.680 of

02:43:55.840 the

02:43:56.020 movie

02:43:56.260 presumed

02:43:56.920 innocent

02:43:57.240 spoiler

02:43:58.340 alert

02:43:58.820 if you

02:43:59.180 haven't

02:43:59.440 seen

02:43:59.660 presumed

02:44:00.140 innocent

02:44:00.380 or read

02:44:00.880 the

02:44:01.040 Scott

02:44:01.260 Tarot

02:44:01.560 book

02:44:01.880 tune

02:44:02.820 out

02:44:03.040 now

02:44:03.300 because

02:44:03.620 it's

02:44:04.160 a

02:44:04.260 great

02:44:04.600 powerful

02:44:05.420 last

02:44:05.800 line

02:44:06.140 there

02:44:07.720 the

02:44:07.940 circumstances

02:44:08.540 of

02:44:08.860 whom

02:44:09.040 were

02:44:09.200 different

02:44:10.220 but

02:44:10.640 he

02:44:10.980 said

02:44:11.760 the

02:44:11.920 following

02:44:12.340 this

02:44:14.120 is

02:44:14.280 a

02:44:14.600 husband

02:44:14.880 writing

02:44:15.180 about

02:44:15.420 his

02:44:15.620 affair

02:44:15.980 with

02:44:16.680 all

02:44:17.040 deliberation

02:44:17.840 and

02:44:18.060 intent

02:44:18.540 I

02:44:18.960 reached

02:44:19.320 for

02:44:19.600 Carolyn

02:44:19.960 I

02:44:20.580 cannot

02:44:20.880 pretend

02:44:21.260 it

02:44:21.440 was

02:44:21.580 an

02:44:21.720 accident

02:44:22.060 I

02:44:22.760 reached

02:44:23.080 for

02:44:23.280 Carolyn

02:44:23.660 and

02:44:24.220 set

02:44:24.560 off

02:44:24.860 that

02:44:25.100 insane

02:44:25.620 mix

02:44:26.140 of

02:44:26.460 rage

02:44:27.040 and

02:44:27.400 lunacy

02:44:28.000 that

02:44:28.780 led

02:44:29.000 one

02:44:29.300 human

02:44:29.660 being

02:44:30.120 to

02:44:30.640 kill

02:44:30.920 another

02:44:31.300 set

02:44:32.800 off

02:44:33.060 that

02:44:33.300 insane

02:44:33.940 mix

02:44:34.400 of

02:44:34.660 rage

02:44:35.160 and

02:44:35.460 lunacy

02:44:35.980 that

02:44:36.880 led

02:44:37.040 one

02:44:37.480 human

02:44:37.860 being

02:44:38.140 to

02:44:38.320 kill

02:44:38.500 another

02:44:38.840 I'm

02:44:40.460 not

02:44:40.640 saying

02:44:41.000 you

02:44:41.500 have

02:44:41.680 an

02:44:41.800 affair

02:44:42.120 and

02:44:42.380 you're

02:44:42.560 going

02:44:42.660 to

02:44:42.760 become

02:44:43.280 a

02:44:43.520 murderer

02:44:43.820 but

02:44:44.620 as

02:44:44.800 I

02:44:44.980 said

02:44:45.380 earlier

02:44:45.780 you

02:44:46.460 are

02:44:46.960 playing

02:44:47.780 with

02:44:48.380 radioactive

02:44:50.380 materials

02:44:51.360 so

02:44:52.040 many

02:44:52.560 cases

02:44:53.080 where

02:44:53.700 one

02:44:53.980 of

02:44:54.100 the

02:44:54.240 spousal

02:44:54.620 partners

02:44:54.960 has

02:44:55.340 an

02:44:55.480 affair

02:44:55.860 ultimately

02:44:57.340 lead

02:44:57.820 to

02:44:58.140 some

02:44:58.380 sort

02:44:58.620 of

02:44:58.760 marital

02:44:59.100 violence

02:44:59.680 including

02:45:00.220 murder

02:45:00.640 I

02:45:01.400 mean

02:45:01.480 how many

02:45:02.340 times

02:45:02.600 have you

02:45:02.800 seen

02:45:03.000 it

02:45:03.120 Mary

02:45:03.280 Ellen

02:45:03.520 a

02:45:05.760 lot

02:45:06.120 a

02:45:06.900 lot

02:45:07.300 and

02:45:08.040 then

02:45:08.220 you

02:45:08.560 you

02:45:09.060 include

02:45:09.580 in

02:45:09.800 that

02:45:10.020 just

02:45:10.300 the

02:45:10.520 emotion

02:45:11.500 that

02:45:12.200 exists

02:45:12.800 in

02:45:13.360 a

02:45:13.460 relationship

02:45:14.060 emotion

02:45:15.220 that

02:45:15.660 if

02:45:15.860 you

02:45:16.220 compound

02:45:16.740 it

02:45:16.960 with

02:45:17.160 the

02:45:17.540 person

02:45:17.840 has

02:45:18.260 weapons

02:45:18.840 in

02:45:19.040 the

02:45:19.160 house

02:45:19.380 the

02:45:19.560 person

02:45:19.840 has

02:45:20.100 children

02:45:20.920 in

02:45:21.240 the

02:45:21.380 house

02:45:21.740 now

02:45:22.460 you've

02:45:22.720 got

02:45:22.980 an

02:45:23.600 incredibly

02:45:24.120 explosive

02:45:25.080 situation

02:45:26.140 incredibly

02:45:26.780 explosive

02:45:27.320 and

02:45:27.700 you know

02:45:28.400 depending

02:45:28.840 on the

02:45:29.440 personalities

02:45:29.960 of the

02:45:30.380 people

02:45:30.680 involved

02:45:31.240 it

02:45:31.800 can

02:45:31.980 become

02:45:32.660 exponentially

02:45:33.540 explosive

02:45:34.260 what

02:45:35.900 happens

02:45:36.240 to the

02:45:36.560 people

02:45:36.940 who

02:45:37.260 were

02:45:37.580 friends

02:45:38.180 with

02:45:38.700 Shanann

02:45:39.660 I mean

02:45:40.060 I feel

02:45:40.300 like we

02:45:40.540 know

02:45:40.680 what

02:45:40.800 happens

02:45:41.060 to her

02:45:41.320 family

02:45:41.600 members

02:45:41.920 they try

02:45:42.280 to move

02:45:42.540 on with

02:45:42.780 their

02:45:42.880 lives

02:45:43.080 I don't

02:45:43.320 know

02:45:43.440 how you

02:45:43.720 do it

02:45:44.040 as the

02:45:44.440 mother

02:45:44.740 as the

02:45:45.640 brother

02:45:45.940 you know

02:45:46.380 the dad

02:45:46.860 was at

02:45:47.760 the

02:45:47.920 sentencing

02:45:48.240 hearing

02:45:48.500 with heartfelt

02:45:49.140 remarks

02:45:49.600 as well

02:45:49.980 he was

02:45:50.220 so angry

02:45:50.940 called Chris

02:45:51.640 Watts

02:45:51.860 a monster

02:45:52.440 but what

02:45:53.540 about

02:45:53.860 the other

02:45:54.900 victims

02:45:56.200 you know

02:45:56.600 like the

02:45:56.900 best friend

02:45:57.320 Nicole

02:45:57.680 who called

02:45:58.040 911

02:45:58.340 what happens

02:46:00.380 to them

02:46:00.800 I would

02:46:03.180 say this

02:46:04.020 they'll never

02:46:04.620 have closure

02:46:05.320 the c word

02:46:06.320 does not

02:46:06.800 work in a

02:46:07.320 crime of

02:46:07.740 violence

02:46:08.060 you just

02:46:08.440 never

02:46:08.900 have closure

02:46:10.020 I would

02:46:11.180 say there's

02:46:11.680 going to be

02:46:12.460 a certain

02:46:13.100 level

02:46:13.760 certain level

02:46:15.240 of guilt

02:46:15.780 that exists

02:46:16.640 for the rest

02:46:17.160 of their

02:46:17.440 life

02:46:17.840 they would

02:46:18.880 go through

02:46:19.300 the stages

02:46:19.880 of death

02:46:20.340 and dying

02:46:20.880 and that's

02:46:22.060 pointed out

02:46:22.560 beautifully

02:46:22.980 by Dr.

02:46:23.900 Elizabeth

02:46:24.280 Kubler-Ross

02:46:25.060 years ago

02:46:25.620 who wrote

02:46:26.040 about the

02:46:26.500 stages of

02:46:27.120 death and

02:46:27.820 dying

02:46:28.080 and I

02:46:29.300 think they

02:46:29.660 wake up

02:46:30.120 some mornings

02:46:30.680 feeling very

02:46:31.400 guilty

02:46:31.720 why didn't

02:46:32.200 I do

02:46:32.540 more

02:46:32.960 then the

02:46:33.620 next morning

02:46:34.160 it's sadness

02:46:34.860 and then the

02:46:35.500 next morning

02:46:36.020 it's anger

02:46:36.680 eventually

02:46:37.560 if you can

02:46:38.600 get to the

02:46:39.100 level of

02:46:39.520 acceptance

02:46:39.980 that's where

02:46:40.560 you want

02:46:40.900 to be

02:46:41.240 but I

02:46:41.760 find most

02:46:42.220 people don't

02:46:42.740 get there

02:46:43.140 most people

02:46:43.780 struggle

02:46:44.420 with should

02:46:45.240 they have

02:46:45.540 done more

02:46:46.000 could they

02:46:46.520 have done

02:46:46.940 more

02:46:47.220 could they

02:46:47.880 have stopped

02:46:48.420 it

02:46:48.620 and family

02:46:49.240 members

02:46:49.620 go through

02:46:50.280 similar

02:46:50.800 feelings

02:46:51.400 of just

02:46:52.000 being on

02:46:52.520 that roller

02:46:53.100 coaster

02:46:53.460 where every

02:46:54.500 day it's

02:46:54.960 different

02:46:55.320 and Dr.

02:46:56.340 Ross says

02:46:56.980 we need to

02:46:57.600 get to the

02:46:58.040 level of

02:46:58.460 acceptance

02:46:58.920 but I

02:46:59.700 can tell

02:47:00.200 you in

02:47:00.720 a case

02:47:01.060 like this

02:47:01.620 there's no

02:47:02.680 one that

02:47:03.120 will get to

02:47:03.580 the level

02:47:03.920 of acceptance

02:47:04.600 of what

02:47:05.040 happened

02:47:05.460 you are

02:47:07.920 someone who

02:47:08.620 has worked

02:47:09.460 on so

02:47:10.340 many of

02:47:10.880 these big

02:47:11.320 murder

02:47:11.760 cases from

02:47:12.480 the Zodiac

02:47:13.640 killer

02:47:14.120 Ted Kaczynski

02:47:15.220 the Unabomber

02:47:16.140 were involved

02:47:17.480 in the

02:47:18.580 Elizabeth Smart

02:47:19.540 the Natalie

02:47:19.940 Holloway

02:47:20.280 disappearances

02:47:20.840 I mean you've

02:47:21.560 dealt with

02:47:22.760 evil

02:47:23.180 professionally

02:47:24.240 your entire

02:47:24.900 life

02:47:25.240 so how

02:47:26.180 do you

02:47:26.720 walk the

02:47:28.580 streets

02:47:28.960 how do

02:47:29.500 you

02:47:29.900 laugh

02:47:30.780 at silly

02:47:31.280 jokes

02:47:31.700 how you

02:47:32.300 know

02:47:32.500 how are

02:47:33.520 we as

02:47:34.060 humans to

02:47:34.620 compartmentalize

02:47:35.600 this into

02:47:36.160 the right

02:47:36.560 box so

02:47:37.300 that we

02:47:37.580 can go

02:47:37.900 have dinner

02:47:38.260 with our

02:47:38.580 families

02:47:38.960 tonight and

02:47:39.480 laugh and

02:47:40.100 be joyful

02:47:40.740 and understand

02:47:42.360 how to

02:47:43.360 categorize

02:47:43.900 evil

02:47:44.300 the way

02:47:47.800 that I

02:47:48.240 was really

02:47:49.000 trained to

02:47:49.660 do it

02:47:50.040 I'm

02:47:50.600 actually a

02:47:51.120 mental health

02:47:51.580 counselor

02:47:52.080 by my

02:47:53.260 training

02:47:53.860 but going

02:47:56.200 through the

02:47:56.560 FBI

02:47:57.000 we learned

02:47:57.820 to become

02:47:58.400 we had to

02:47:59.060 become

02:47:59.340 desensitized

02:48:00.320 because of

02:48:00.980 what we

02:48:01.280 saw

02:48:01.600 you just

02:48:02.420 couldn't

02:48:02.680 do your

02:48:03.040 job

02:48:03.500 and I

02:48:03.900 hear people

02:48:04.360 talk about

02:48:05.000 doctors and

02:48:05.940 nurses that

02:48:06.500 work in

02:48:07.040 emergency

02:48:07.980 rooms and I

02:48:08.700 think to

02:48:09.020 myself oh

02:48:09.680 my god

02:48:10.140 how do

02:48:10.760 they do

02:48:11.200 that they

02:48:11.580 see people

02:48:12.060 come in

02:48:12.500 they have

02:48:12.760 to sew

02:48:13.080 limbs back

02:48:13.700 on and

02:48:14.140 I don't

02:48:14.620 know how

02:48:15.040 they do

02:48:15.440 that

02:48:15.940 I found

02:48:17.600 the perfect

02:48:18.060 job because

02:48:19.300 it lets me

02:48:20.260 get into

02:48:20.720 the criminal

02:48:21.160 mind and

02:48:21.820 explore and

02:48:22.720 understand

02:48:23.140 behavior I

02:48:24.240 find it not

02:48:24.880 upsetting but

02:48:25.900 very challenging

02:48:26.760 and I think

02:48:27.440 that perspective

02:48:28.340 has really

02:48:29.560 helped tremendously

02:48:30.560 if this

02:48:31.220 bothered me

02:48:32.020 if this was

02:48:33.080 something that

02:48:33.640 hung on to

02:48:34.640 me seven

02:48:35.740 days a week

02:48:36.620 24 hours a

02:48:37.440 day I can

02:48:38.080 tell you that

02:48:38.600 I could not

02:48:39.120 do it I

02:48:39.660 just couldn't

02:48:40.360 and I also

02:48:41.200 think the way

02:48:41.760 that I was

02:48:42.240 raised was

02:48:43.740 has been

02:48:44.800 really helpful

02:48:45.580 we were

02:48:47.680 raised in a

02:48:48.220 family that

02:48:49.000 having a

02:48:50.300 really solid

02:48:50.960 good sense

02:48:51.480 of humor

02:48:51.940 and pulling

02:48:52.400 away from

02:48:52.980 things knowing

02:48:53.640 when the

02:48:54.500 time was

02:48:54.920 right to

02:48:55.320 pull away

02:48:55.700 from things

02:48:56.220 has been

02:48:56.540 really helpful

02:48:57.120 but I'm

02:48:58.380 just really

02:48:59.080 challenged

02:48:59.780 I'll think

02:49:00.300 tonight about

02:49:00.880 Chris Watts

02:49:01.580 I'll think

02:49:02.560 about boy I

02:49:03.500 would love to

02:49:03.980 talk to him

02:49:04.700 someday I'll

02:49:05.840 think about

02:49:06.460 more reasons

02:49:07.900 that this

02:49:08.440 happened because

02:49:09.740 I'm always in

02:49:11.060 searching for

02:49:13.080 why people

02:49:13.920 behave the way

02:49:14.720 that they do

02:49:15.360 especially in a

02:49:16.720 case like this

02:49:17.640 you're not

02:49:18.860 walking around

02:49:19.600 thinking potential

02:49:21.320 killer he's

02:49:22.540 there's another

02:49:23.360 like you know

02:49:24.320 I think I'm

02:49:24.840 gonna get eaten

02:49:25.300 by a shark

02:49:25.780 every time I

02:49:26.260 go in the

02:49:26.540 ocean because

02:49:26.980 I'm in news

02:49:27.680 and so this

02:49:28.420 is just we

02:49:28.880 know we

02:49:29.140 cover these

02:49:29.560 stories you're

02:49:31.000 not thinking

02:49:31.420 that way when

02:49:32.040 you're just

02:49:32.320 walking down

02:49:32.740 the street

02:49:33.160 you know I'm

02:49:35.200 not and I'll

02:49:35.660 tell you why

02:49:36.220 because when

02:49:36.940 you look at

02:49:37.400 somebody I

02:49:37.900 just know you

02:49:38.700 could be wearing

02:49:39.260 a beautiful

02:49:39.720 suit and

02:49:41.200 leather shoes

02:49:42.540 and a leather

02:49:43.080 briefcase and

02:49:44.160 the thoughts that

02:49:44.940 are going in

02:49:45.440 your head on

02:49:46.480 in somebody's

02:49:47.020 head could be

02:49:47.620 as frightening

02:49:48.200 as anything in

02:49:48.920 the world we

02:49:49.440 cannot tell just

02:49:50.800 by looking at

02:49:51.480 someone that

02:49:52.380 they're not

02:49:52.860 gonna hurt us

02:49:53.540 so I watch

02:49:54.700 behavior I can

02:49:55.680 sit for hours

02:49:56.960 and just watch

02:49:57.660 human behavior in

02:49:58.560 a restaurant or

02:49:59.460 in a train

02:49:59.960 station that's

02:50:01.120 what gets me

02:50:01.820 interested it's

02:50:02.680 not how they

02:50:03.260 look it's how

02:50:04.420 they behave

02:50:05.100 do you think

02:50:06.280 if I gave you

02:50:06.780 10 people and

02:50:07.460 I let you

02:50:07.840 watch them each

02:50:08.620 for two hours

02:50:09.480 in a train

02:50:10.100 station in a

02:50:10.700 restaurant whatever

02:50:11.180 the setting

02:50:11.680 were do you

02:50:13.260 think you'd be

02:50:13.600 able to say

02:50:14.120 these are the

02:50:15.100 top two

02:50:15.560 candidates for

02:50:16.480 crime for

02:50:17.800 murder no I

02:50:19.680 don't think I

02:50:20.120 could do that I

02:50:21.180 would probably be

02:50:22.020 able to tell you

02:50:22.660 more about their

02:50:23.220 personality but I

02:50:24.620 think I would

02:50:25.060 need more

02:50:26.560 opportunities to

02:50:27.520 see them in

02:50:28.340 different contexts

02:50:29.120 and see how they

02:50:30.800 interact with

02:50:31.660 people they

02:50:32.120 didn't know

02:50:32.660 strangers and

02:50:33.700 then people that

02:50:34.480 they were in

02:50:35.860 their close

02:50:36.320 circle profilers

02:50:38.500 get the kind

02:50:39.580 of the the

02:50:40.200 rap that we

02:50:40.760 can look at

02:50:41.180 people know

02:50:41.620 what's going

02:50:42.020 on in their

02:50:42.420 head but we

02:50:43.240 have to study

02:50:43.820 their patterns of

02:50:44.560 behavior over a

02:50:45.440 lifetime so

02:50:46.280 two hours

02:50:46.780 wouldn't be

02:50:47.200 enough time

02:50:47.920 do you what

02:50:49.360 do you do

02:50:50.140 you have any

02:50:50.440 kids you marry

02:50:51.040 like what's

02:50:51.380 your I don't

02:50:51.960 know if you

02:50:52.220 reveal that

02:50:52.720 publicly but I'm

02:50:54.080 just wondering

02:50:54.420 what do you

02:50:54.700 tell like your

02:50:55.460 kids or your

02:50:56.240 nieces or your

02:50:57.340 friends kids like

02:50:58.100 to protect

02:50:59.360 themselves

02:50:59.900 it's really funny

02:51:03.380 because I have

02:51:04.100 nieces and

02:51:04.620 nephews and

02:51:05.640 they don't

02:51:06.680 really want to

02:51:07.480 know a lot

02:51:08.120 about what I

02:51:09.300 know and so

02:51:10.720 they don't

02:51:12.700 ask me

02:51:13.060 questions and

02:51:13.820 I don't

02:51:14.160 force my

02:51:14.640 information on

02:51:15.580 them my

02:51:16.280 students ask

02:51:17.100 me a lot

02:51:17.780 of questions

02:51:18.360 so I'm

02:51:19.240 very sensitive

02:51:20.320 about letting

02:51:21.980 people know as

02:51:22.800 much as they

02:51:23.300 want to know

02:51:24.000 every once in a

02:51:25.260 while it gets

02:51:26.440 the better of

02:51:27.060 me and if

02:51:27.860 somebody I

02:51:28.620 know is

02:51:30.640 about to

02:51:31.440 engage in

02:51:31.980 behavior that

02:51:32.640 I think is

02:51:33.080 really risky

02:51:33.700 I'll tell

02:51:35.220 them but I

02:51:36.080 understand too

02:51:36.780 that they

02:51:37.160 probably won't

02:51:38.020 listen and

02:51:38.700 they'll go

02:51:39.400 forward and

02:51:40.140 have to see

02:51:40.940 for themselves

02:51:41.440 what will

02:51:41.820 happen

02:51:42.200 I'm like

02:51:43.980 only extroverts

02:51:45.820 in my life

02:51:46.240 from now on

02:51:46.880 if you're not

02:51:47.680 a talker if

02:51:48.340 you can't express

02:51:48.960 anger you're

02:51:49.700 out you're out

02:51:50.600 of here you

02:51:51.620 gotta laugh

02:51:52.320 right because

02:51:52.660 it's just this

02:51:53.200 stuff is so

02:51:53.840 dark but I

02:51:55.340 am always looking

02:51:56.160 for the lessons

02:51:56.960 you know just

02:51:57.620 whatever lessons

02:51:58.460 we can find to

02:51:59.320 make our

02:52:00.040 society a little

02:52:00.800 safer our

02:52:01.660 kids a little

02:52:02.260 safer and

02:52:03.660 just to just

02:52:04.500 to wrestle with

02:52:05.640 the basic

02:52:06.000 question of good

02:52:06.720 versus evil and

02:52:07.640 when evil is

02:52:08.360 in front of

02:52:08.980 you how do

02:52:09.960 you spot

02:52:10.700 it and you

02:52:12.560 don't just see

02:52:13.200 it the first

02:52:13.680 time and

02:52:14.440 extroverts tend

02:52:15.320 to be probably

02:52:16.260 extroversion is

02:52:17.700 a trait of

02:52:18.500 psychopathy so

02:52:19.420 that's not good

02:52:20.120 either so you

02:52:22.700 really do have

02:52:26.980 to look at

02:52:27.660 people's behavior

02:52:28.540 and see how

02:52:30.120 they treat

02:52:30.520 other people

02:52:31.120 see how they

02:52:31.780 they happen

02:52:32.580 to react when

02:52:34.500 they're angry

02:52:35.060 when they're

02:52:35.460 stressed out

02:52:36.220 what do they

02:52:37.620 do you

02:52:38.040 really have

02:52:38.660 to understand

02:52:39.800 the behavior

02:52:40.340 and that's

02:52:40.880 just not one

02:52:41.900 sit down

02:52:42.360 session that's

02:52:43.140 just not one

02:52:43.760 time where you

02:52:44.280 go out to

02:52:44.660 dinner if you're

02:52:46.040 going to let

02:52:46.340 somebody into

02:52:46.840 your home if

02:52:47.760 you're going to

02:52:47.960 let somebody

02:52:48.360 into your

02:52:48.740 comfort zone you

02:52:49.960 really have to

02:52:50.600 do an analysis

02:52:51.400 of their

02:52:52.400 behavior over

02:52:53.700 time and place

02:52:54.780 and distance and

02:52:55.740 with different

02:52:56.140 people and you

02:52:57.480 know what else I

02:52:58.040 will say this

02:52:58.480 rounding back to

02:52:59.060 the affair if

02:53:00.020 you think your

02:53:00.480 partner's having

02:53:00.940 an affair I'm

02:53:02.780 sorry but

02:53:03.160 especially if

02:53:03.740 you're the

02:53:04.000 wife and this is

02:53:04.720 and it's a

02:53:05.420 man cheating

02:53:06.540 on you be

02:53:07.500 careful be

02:53:08.540 careful about

02:53:09.120 the confrontation

02:53:09.880 be careful in

02:53:11.440 general the odds

02:53:12.720 are he's not

02:53:13.180 feeling all warm

02:53:13.820 and fuzzy toward

02:53:14.440 you there could

02:53:15.560 be hatred as

02:53:16.460 Mary Ellen points

02:53:17.160 out there could

02:53:17.620 be hatred for

02:53:18.460 you growing it

02:53:19.620 might not just

02:53:20.140 be an innocent

02:53:20.720 dalliance like

02:53:22.360 you're you're in

02:53:23.500 a danger zone

02:53:24.180 there

02:53:24.480 well and I

02:53:27.720 think the

02:53:28.020 research is

02:53:28.460 certainly going

02:53:29.040 to back you

02:53:29.480 up on that

02:53:30.100 because the

02:53:33.720 time for a

02:53:35.180 spouse to be

02:53:36.080 really at

02:53:36.620 highest risk is

02:53:37.800 oftentimes when

02:53:38.740 they say to a

02:53:39.900 cheating spouse

02:53:41.100 I'm leaving you

02:53:41.900 you're not going

02:53:42.360 to see the kids

02:53:42.980 again that can

02:53:45.180 really ignite an

02:53:46.480 already incendiary

02:53:47.920 situation so

02:53:49.100 understand domestic

02:53:50.760 violence that is

02:53:51.680 really critical be

02:53:53.000 aware that you

02:53:54.660 could unknowingly

02:53:55.800 incite a worse

02:53:57.240 situation so

02:53:58.300 you're absolutely

02:53:59.800 correct take

02:54:01.600 precautions you

02:54:02.740 can deliver news

02:54:03.660 like that in the

02:54:04.540 presence of a

02:54:05.140 loved one someone

02:54:06.160 who could protect

02:54:06.840 you can have your

02:54:07.980 exit plan and

02:54:09.120 should have your

02:54:09.580 exit plan all

02:54:10.620 laid out there

02:54:11.720 are these small

02:54:12.740 but meaningful

02:54:13.740 things that we

02:54:14.460 can do to just

02:54:15.520 just in case just

02:54:16.620 in case Mary

02:54:17.760 Ellen O'Toole it's

02:54:18.540 always fascinating

02:54:19.140 talking to you

02:54:19.680 thank you thank

02:54:20.420 you thank you for

02:54:21.200 being one of the

02:54:21.740 good guys and

02:54:22.360 helping put guys

02:54:23.620 like this behind

02:54:24.420 bars and helping

02:54:25.660 us figure out what

02:54:26.420 makes them tick so

02:54:27.200 we can hopefully

02:54:27.680 prevent the

02:54:28.280 next one so good

02:54:29.200 to talk to you

02:54:29.620 again thank you

02:54:31.060 for having me very

02:54:31.920 much all the best

02:54:33.220 to you thanks for

02:54:34.640 joining us today our

02:54:35.400 hot crime summer

02:54:36.120 week continues

02:54:36.820 tomorrow with an

02:54:37.980 in-depth look into

02:54:39.180 the Jody Arias case

02:54:40.740 with my pal Mark

02:54:42.540 Eiglarsh talk to you

02:54:44.040 then

02:54:44.260 hey everyone I'm

02:54:50.200 Megan Kelly welcome

02:54:51.040 to the Megan Kelly

02:54:51.740 show today we are

02:54:53.200 looking back at one

02:54:53.900 of the most chilling

02:54:54.680 shooting sprees in

02:54:56.680 in our nation's

02:54:57.480 history it was just

02:54:59.780 over one year after

02:55:00.980 9-11 and for three

02:55:02.520 weeks in October of

02:55:03.800 2002 the D.C.

02:55:04.920 area was under siege

02:55:06.720 no one no one it

02:55:09.280 seemed was safe

02:55:10.420 attacks targeted

02:55:11.760 people from every

02:55:12.520 walk of life doing

02:55:13.340 the most common of

02:55:14.700 tasks pumping gas

02:55:16.280 shopping mowing the

02:55:17.920 lawn just walking

02:55:20.560 just walking down the

02:55:21.700 street at first law

02:55:23.680 enforcement thought the

02:55:24.440 shooter was likely a

02:55:25.320 white older man perhaps

02:55:26.900 with military experience

02:55:28.240 but as they pieced

02:55:29.540 together the clues the

02:55:31.020 reality was much

02:55:32.380 different today we are

02:55:34.040 going to take a

02:55:34.520 fascinating look into

02:55:35.520 the beltway sniper case

02:55:37.620 and we are thrilled to

02:55:38.760 be joined by someone who

02:55:40.260 was working for the FBI

02:55:41.420 at that time Jim

02:55:43.280 Clemente is truly a

02:55:44.860 living legend whose own

02:55:46.000 personal story is also

02:55:47.060 fascinating he's a

02:55:48.320 former FBI profiler who

02:55:50.040 went on to bring his

02:55:51.040 expertise to the small

02:55:52.020 screen and now has a

02:55:53.400 number of exciting

02:55:54.540 projects that we'll get

02:55:55.520 into in a bit Jim

02:55:57.160 Clemente welcome to the

02:55:58.160 show hello Megan thank

02:56:00.580 you for having me it's

02:56:01.860 very great to be here

02:56:03.220 and I really appreciate

02:56:05.580 all the work that you do

02:56:06.980 getting out all this

02:56:08.180 amazing true true crime

02:56:10.280 oh Jim thank you for

02:56:11.820 saying that from from

02:56:12.680 you that's a great

02:56:13.200 compliment because I

02:56:13.900 know you've devoted your

02:56:14.580 life to catching bad

02:56:15.580 guys and talking about

02:56:16.940 it and helping people

02:56:17.560 understand the process

02:56:18.480 and how it's done I've

02:56:20.560 learned from you and

02:56:21.140 our listeners and

02:56:22.460 viewers are about to as

02:56:23.340 well if they haven't

02:56:24.140 caught your work yet

02:56:25.320 this case I remember

02:56:27.120 this so well I was just

02:56:29.120 about to move to the

02:56:30.500 DC area and so was

02:56:32.540 watching it you know with

02:56:33.420 great interest and

02:56:34.840 thankfully had not yet

02:56:35.760 gotten there but the

02:56:37.440 thing that was just so

02:56:38.180 terrifying about it was

02:56:39.260 there was no way of

02:56:40.980 preventing other than

02:56:42.100 staying in your house

02:56:43.160 all day and not doing

02:56:44.740 any of the normal things

02:56:45.900 you would do there was

02:56:47.000 absolutely no way of

02:56:47.900 preventing it from

02:56:48.560 happening to you because

02:56:49.960 like I say it could

02:56:50.580 it could literally have

02:56:51.460 been you were just

02:56:52.320 walking down the street

02:56:53.720 that there was no

02:56:55.040 method it seemed to how

02:56:56.780 they chose their

02:56:57.900 victims yeah there was a

02:56:59.440 very random process going

02:57:00.980 on and with snipers

02:57:02.640 that's that's generally

02:57:04.180 the case snipers will

02:57:05.740 actually have absolutely

02:57:07.340 no relationship to their

02:57:08.720 victims they they

02:57:09.960 actually choose a method

02:57:11.400 of operation that

02:57:12.360 distances themselves from

02:57:14.300 their victims they want

02:57:16.280 to feel like God taking

02:57:18.060 life from afar and above

02:57:19.480 and because of that they

02:57:21.860 typically pick random

02:57:23.420 victims that just happen

02:57:24.740 into their purview but in

02:57:26.600 that case when that was

02:57:27.920 going on there were so

02:57:29.840 many people who were

02:57:31.400 putting up double

02:57:33.040 blankets over all their

02:57:34.720 windows in their houses

02:57:35.760 who were when they went

02:57:37.280 to had to go to the

02:57:38.160 grocery store were pulling

02:57:39.480 up right next to the front

02:57:40.700 or actually crawl walking

02:57:42.800 into the grocery stores or

02:57:44.540 while they're getting gas it

02:57:46.140 was a terrifying time in

02:57:47.520 that whole washington dc

02:57:48.860 area it's not like today

02:57:50.900 you know when post covid

02:57:52.520 ordering your groceries is

02:57:54.860 not uncommon people know

02:57:56.260 how to do that they know

02:57:57.180 how to do most things

02:57:58.000 without leaving their house

02:57:59.100 the world has now been set

02:58:01.080 up to allow that back then

02:58:02.400 you had to leave the house

02:58:03.980 you had to correct go

02:58:05.200 outside you know and it

02:58:06.300 was like places like

02:58:08.040 michael's you know who

02:58:08.940 hasn't been to michael's you

02:58:10.400 know to go get whatever a

02:58:11.980 baking tray for the holiday

02:58:13.380 cookies you're making

02:58:14.380 home depot exactly or

02:58:16.640 your gas you know it's

02:58:18.480 like i i read too and i

02:58:20.040 didn't remember this from

02:58:20.840 the time but they some

02:58:21.720 gas station owners were

02:58:22.620 setting up big tarps around

02:58:24.460 the area where you'd pump

02:58:26.220 your gas so that you could

02:58:27.140 feel confident no one

02:58:28.740 would shoot you that it

02:58:30.960 was a month of hell it

02:58:33.300 was it was the most direct

02:58:38.260 horrific terroristic event

02:58:41.980 since 9-11 and it was seen

02:58:45.020 as since it was within a

02:58:47.080 year of when 9-11 happened

02:58:48.840 it was seen as potentially

02:58:50.780 an extension of 9-11 people

02:58:53.500 thought that this could be

02:58:55.260 some outside terrorist who

02:58:57.500 was running amok in in the

02:58:59.840 washington dc area particularly

02:59:01.440 because dc is such a

02:59:02.960 political place and all these

02:59:05.560 shootings happened right

02:59:06.720 around dc and and even right

02:59:08.980 into dc and those things got

02:59:11.660 people worried especially

02:59:12.980 people in the fbi yeah i

02:59:15.180 remember it was like the

02:59:16.840 three things not to not to

02:59:18.100 compare because 9-11 is in a

02:59:19.500 class of its own but we had

02:59:21.140 suffered that terrorist attack

02:59:22.500 then the anthrax scare came and

02:59:25.400 then within 12 months or so

02:59:27.840 we're looking at the dc sniper

02:59:29.920 attacks these at seemingly at

02:59:31.800 random and you know people may

02:59:33.860 remember 10 people died but 20

02:59:35.740 people were shot i mean 13 as

02:59:38.320 part of that one month but it

02:59:39.360 actually wound up going well

02:59:40.700 beyond that which we'll get to

02:59:41.760 well beyond yeah so it was it

02:59:43.960 truly was terror events of

02:59:46.160 terror back then and people

02:59:48.160 wonder why you know now the

02:59:49.620 benefit of hindsight we

02:59:50.600 submitted to the security state

02:59:52.160 you know how the expansion of

02:59:53.580 all these programs and spying and

02:59:55.100 so on we were scared yeah well

02:59:58.380 we were vulnerable and we had

03:00:00.080 to do something as a country to

03:00:01.880 sort of counteract that i think

03:00:03.940 9-11 taught us not only that we

03:00:06.680 were vulnerable but that we

03:00:08.660 were extremely lucky because that

03:00:11.420 attack could have killed upwards

03:00:13.460 of hundreds of thousands of

03:00:15.680 people and to lose 3 000 lives on

03:00:18.540 that day was was horrific and

03:00:20.700 and i'll never i'll never forget

03:00:23.640 it but the fact is there were

03:00:26.200 150 000 people working in the

03:00:28.420 world trade center alone and if one

03:00:30.320 of those towers had fallen sideways

03:00:32.400 instead of just collapsing on

03:00:34.300 itself we don't know how many

03:00:36.580 hundreds of thousands of people

03:00:38.180 could have been killed

03:00:39.140 you just gave me the chills you're

03:00:41.040 so right but i do remember that

03:00:43.700 feeling of being terrorized and in a

03:00:47.000 way the dc sniper brought it out in

03:00:49.920 people even more than 9-11 like 9-11

03:00:52.440 seems so extraordinary i don't know

03:00:55.140 that we were worrying that that would

03:00:56.440 happen regularly you know it's like

03:00:58.960 such an extraordinary attack by this

03:01:01.200 man we understood far away in a cave

03:01:03.780 in afghanistan it took extraordinary

03:01:05.540 amounts of planning and so on but the

03:01:08.240 dc sniper was getting person after

03:01:11.300 person after person day after day

03:01:13.980 after day and very very few clues to

03:01:17.400 go on it's not like we think we got

03:01:19.940 him or there's someone in custody it

03:01:21.680 took almost the whole month before it

03:01:23.480 was like okay so let's start at the

03:01:25.240 beginning let's start at the

03:01:26.140 beginning okay um the first the first

03:01:29.620 and we can then go back let's just do

03:01:32.260 the ones that we experienced as a

03:01:33.700 nation together uh those 13 shootings

03:01:36.800 10 of which resulted in fatalities

03:01:39.080 first and then we can go back and take

03:01:41.820 a look at what was happening prior to

03:01:44.740 that spree which helps put everything

03:01:47.380 into perspective okay i'm trying to get

03:01:49.680 my dates in front of me the first one

03:01:51.200 october 2nd 2002 55 year old james d

03:01:56.700 martin a program analyst for the

03:01:59.100 national oceanic and atmospheric

03:02:00.700 administration is shot in the parking

03:02:03.820 lot of shoppers food warehouse in

03:02:07.080 wheaton maryland now at that point

03:02:10.040 what did we know did we know this is

03:02:13.180 like a killing for joy you know what i

03:02:15.460 mean did we do we think he had enemies

03:02:16.920 what was known at this point it was

03:02:20.180 there was obviously a big question mark

03:02:23.540 was he singled out because of his job

03:02:26.840 he worked for the government i mean at

03:02:29.220 least a government entity and because

03:02:31.440 of that we weren't sure whether this

03:02:33.620 was a politically motivated attack or

03:02:37.060 whether it is a personal attack right in

03:02:39.440 the beginning we don't know we have to

03:02:41.740 do a deep dive on victimology we have to

03:02:44.260 understand who this person is and right

03:02:47.460 at the beginning his job stood out as

03:02:50.440 something that could be related to some

03:02:53.460 kind of terroristic government attack

03:02:56.120 as it turns out in a very short period of

03:03:00.620 time all hell would break loose and it

03:03:04.580 would soon become clear we're talking

03:03:06.640 about a small town you know in in a

03:03:10.440 county that that literally never sees this

03:03:13.900 kind of of violent crime when when

03:03:19.080 basically in one day their their murder

03:03:23.480 rate is multiplied by 50 percent yeah

03:03:28.720 their entire year they get in in in one

03:03:32.740 day so in the beginning you're thinking

03:03:34.700 like you say is it something to do with

03:03:36.200 his job what is it let's look into all of

03:03:38.700 that but that lasted about 24 hours far as

03:03:42.060 i can see i mean it was it was less than a

03:03:44.580 day before the next crime took place

03:03:47.560 that was of a 39 year old man

03:03:50.300 landscaper named james l buchanan police

03:03:54.120 were called to the crime scene they found

03:03:55.720 him he'd been fatally shot while mowing

03:03:58.520 a lawn at a commercial establishment near

03:04:01.060 rockville maryland so now i mean at least

03:04:03.360 one of the other clues here is this isn't

03:04:05.340 about class right now you've got somebody

03:04:07.860 who's probably more professionally educated

03:04:09.780 now you got a different guy who mows lawns

03:04:12.840 for a living um both men one's almost 40

03:04:17.060 one's 55 um and not i don't know but

03:04:20.840 rockville maryland versus wheaton maryland

03:04:22.860 not not too far away right they're not too

03:04:24.800 far they're neighboring towns but but the

03:04:27.820 thing about it is that we didn't know right

03:04:30.780 away that these were related we had to i

03:04:33.740 mean ballistics is what actually created

03:04:36.300 that connection but it took a little while

03:04:38.500 to get the bullets from both of these

03:04:40.820 victims and to match them to the same being

03:04:43.420 fired from the same weapon the fact is that

03:04:46.120 when buchanan's body was found it was it

03:04:50.660 looked like it was an accident he was mowing

03:04:52.460 lawn it looked like maybe a rock kicked up or

03:04:55.580 some glass kicked up and struck him but then

03:04:58.220 it was determined that he was actually shot

03:05:00.360 and so now we have two shootings within a a fairly

03:05:04.560 short geographic distance in both in towns where

03:05:08.200 there wasn't a lot of shootings so there's there's some

03:05:12.520 connection being drawn at this point the fbi is not involved

03:05:16.120 at this point yet it's a local police matter uh the montgomery

03:05:20.680 county police department or montgomery county sheriff's

03:05:26.040 department was brought in immediately and at that point they were they had

03:05:32.760 i think they had just a handful of detectives working for them and of

03:05:38.600 course these detectives would have to go from one scene to the next and of

03:05:43.160 course normally they would get one shooting every several months and now

03:05:49.240 they have two shootings within 24 hours 27 hours maybe do you remember

03:05:55.400 whether there were eyewitnesses this early you know i imagine they'd be

03:05:59.480 asking did anybody see anything like did anybody see anything did anybody have

03:06:04.560 something to report on how it went down there were a lot of uh there were a lot

03:06:09.780 of people interviewed and the the problem here in this case at this time is that

03:06:14.820 whoever the shooter is he's a ghost nobody sees him nobody heard exactly where the

03:06:22.240 shot came from in the case of the second shooting they didn't even know a shot went

03:06:26.640 off so there was some confusion at that point of course there are people who who

03:06:33.800 were interviewed and this is something that we have to deal with all the time

03:06:38.040 when people are interviewed about something as as horrible as a murder

03:06:44.520 sometimes they will sort of fill in blanks that they don't really have in their

03:06:49.560 memory they will do this either intentionally or unintentionally and this

03:06:53.440 can cause an investigation to go off on tangents and actually really impede a

03:06:59.720 thorough and quick investigation and we will start to see that very shortly as the

03:07:05.560 shootings keep continuing i'm recalling this story of a law school professor who got

03:07:14.560 to class late said so sorry had a road rage incident lunatic on the street i'm fine let's

03:07:20.760 move on about 10 minutes later somebody shows up frothing at the mouth at the classroom door

03:07:26.360 banging on the door threatening threatening finally the guy comes in has a gun this is back when i was

03:07:34.360 in law school so you know early 90s before we were you know crazy about you know matt this is a

03:07:40.320 mass shooting there's a mass shooting there's a mass shooting um pulls out a gun everybody says ah

03:07:45.920 some people get down um some people cower people scream uh before everybody had a cell phone

03:07:53.640 and the professor keeps yelling the guy runs out the you know the intruder runs out the professor

03:08:00.360 goes to run after him comes back into the classroom minutes later hands out a form to everybody in the

03:08:10.100 classroom and says write down everything you remember about the about the intruder it was all

03:08:15.220 a farce and today you would get sued by every single student in that class today you would but it's a

03:08:23.120 great teaching experiment because yeah it's it's a social experiment really but what it is is trying

03:08:29.980 to demonstrate the fallacy that eyewitness testimony is actually accurate uh we do exactly the same thing

03:08:38.420 in the fbi academy in the fbi national academy we actually stage though actual bank robberies for

03:08:44.900 example for our students to witness and they are there on site and you'll have 50 students either new

03:08:52.220 agent trainees or advanced police trainees who are witnessing exactly the same event and then we do

03:08:59.040 sort of a a chart a a flow chart of all the different answers how many shots were fired what color was

03:09:06.240 the vehicle how many people in the vehicle how long were they in the bank how long did they they uh shoot

03:09:12.240 when they came out how many shots were fired then all of these details and you will see that they're all

03:09:18.960 over the place right then but then we teach people these people who professionally have to be able to recount

03:09:29.140 details very well how to focus and how to weed out all the other other aspects that can distract distract

03:09:36.880 you because when you're when you're involved in a life situation and then a violent crime happens in

03:09:42.180 front of you you didn't expect it to happen you were expecting to take notes or to go to the store or to

03:09:48.260 pick up your daughter from school and something else intervene but all those other things are still

03:09:54.160 distracting you right so that's the next level for anybody training to be to basically in your job

03:10:00.620 which is to learn to use all that adrenaline for good to pay hyper attention yeah focus and i remember

03:10:08.140 my colleague we went up practicing law together and uh she used to be a nurse before she went to law

03:10:14.120 school and so this happened to her in her law school and um it was a great because somebody else was there

03:10:19.500 who who had witnessed her behavior and they were telling me that she her name was sandy unlike

03:10:24.580 virtually everybody in the class having been a nurse was used to trauma situations and so while like

03:10:31.360 some of the big male burly guys in the class were underneath their desks she was like you over there

03:10:37.420 there was a guy in a wheelchair near the front door she's like get him away from that front door

03:10:40.680 you move there you move this she totally took command is this you know diminutive like she had special

03:10:46.440 forces training she just she'd been through trauma and of course the point of the story is

03:10:51.740 their eyewitness identifications were horrible horrible you know it's like man wearing a big

03:10:57.720 yellow morton salt jacket man wearing lumberjack you know shirt a woman some people said it was a woman

03:11:04.280 it's like so unreliable so yes to your point that the eyewitness ids you can't put that much stock in

03:11:12.140 them unless you get the miracle of holy cow they're all identical they really did get a look at this

03:11:17.240 person well and again it's going to be a filtering out process and that's what we do when we do all

03:11:24.360 these mass interviews when we're when we're doing sort of neighborhood canvases and so forth we want

03:11:29.700 to ask exactly the same questions and then we can measure the answers against each other if you don't

03:11:35.560 have a form for that and every officer is out asking different questions you can never really

03:11:41.540 find out which people are telling the truth and which people aren't and again it might be

03:11:47.100 unintentional in other words some people believe that they are actually recounting what happened but

03:11:54.480 what happens is memory is not a a digital video of this event memory is stored in several different

03:12:05.280 areas each one of your senses has the ability to store information from a memory in a different

03:12:10.840 part of your brain and in order to remember it you have to pull those pieces together if there's a

03:12:16.180 piece missing if you don't remember what it sounded like or what somebody looked like or how tall somebody

03:12:21.460 was your brain will fill in what you expect and if you're focusing only on that gun which many times

03:12:28.980 people say that gun barrel looked massive when the gun was pointing at them and it focuses your

03:12:35.520 attention on that and away from the features of the person that are right in front of you

03:12:39.820 but we've developed ways of of actually maximizing the ability of somebody to recall things really

03:12:46.420 actually yeah we developed cognitive interviewing and basically it's a way to get people to relax

03:12:53.280 and to get put themselves back into the situation in a non-threatening way and then we engage all of

03:13:01.280 their senses not just their sight and sound most people will recount events through sight and sound

03:13:06.940 but they won't tell you what the temperature was like on that day what smells came into their nose while

03:13:12.640 but if you bring those things back it's like linking up chain a chain in your brain to all the

03:13:21.880 different parts of your memory and pulling you can pull them out more easily so we try to do that

03:13:27.540 without any suggestion but we do certain techniques to get people to think about it and one of the ways

03:13:34.040 is to get them to tell us what happened the first thing in the morning and go detail by detail what they

03:13:40.720 did that morning so by the time they get to the event their brain is already used to recounting a lot of

03:13:47.400 detail and again getting all that sensory information involved just ramps up the ability of somebody to

03:13:54.460 remember something for example if i said tell me about thanksgiving at your home when you were a kid

03:14:00.500 you the one of the first things you'll remember is the family being together the smells of the turkey

03:14:05.540 cooking everybody being together the mood the ambience the the how people were situated in around the

03:14:13.440 table all those kinds of things will help you have a much more rich experience when you try to recall

03:14:19.780 that and that's what we try to do about crimes too that's good stuff i mean who hasn't had the experience

03:14:25.560 of you they're out of your deodorant when you're at the store so you get something that's a one-off

03:14:32.380 and then when you put it on you're like summer 1986 you know it's like you you don't necessarily

03:14:39.060 know the date but you know you've had it before and then just the smell takes you back to that place

03:14:44.020 your smell your sense of smell is the most directly wired to your brain there's only one synapse between

03:14:49.940 the nerves that end coming from your nose and getting to your brain so because of that it's one of the

03:14:57.100 most incredible ways to recall something just by smell now this is a fascinating side journey we could

03:15:05.820 do a whole show just on this um all right so back to the dc back to murder yeah back to the dc sniper so

03:15:11.700 you mentioned ballistics so how long does it take to get the bull i mean in a situation like that where

03:15:18.780 now we've had a shooting on october 2nd and the very next day uh james l buchanan the 39 year old

03:15:24.440 landscaper gets shot could you possibly have much information on the ballistics that quickly

03:15:30.180 not yet uh first of all they're they're two different towns and it and then the shootings

03:15:35.600 happened all the first six shootings happened within 27 hours so it wasn't literally till towards

03:15:42.720 the end of that 27 hours that we started to get information that these were all they they all seem

03:15:48.620 to be a ballistic match and then that was confirmed shortly thereafter but when you start seeing

03:15:55.200 shooting then shooting after shooting you can start because it's such an anomaly in this area

03:16:01.940 to have a sniper shooting in other words there were shootings in this county but these these shootings

03:16:10.000 were typically with a handgun by someone who was right in front of the person and there is some kind

03:16:16.140 of ongoing dispute or a robbery gone bad an armed robbery gone bad this kind of shooting where there's a

03:16:23.260 sniper who is completely distanced and invisible to everybody that is something that's a very unique

03:16:33.040 thing and just that behavior in and of itself started to link these crimes by mo so we talked about the

03:16:41.820 first two that the october 3rd was the big day there was just um the one on october 2nd though right

03:16:48.040 before that first killing there had been a shot fired through a window at michael's craft store

03:16:52.640 in aspen hill maryland but no one was hit okay so now we have two victims later that same day october

03:16:59.240 3rd uh prem kumar walakar 52 a part-time cab driver killed while pumping gas at in the aspen hill area of

03:17:09.800 montgomery uh county maryland again that's where the first that's where that michael's was um that's

03:17:15.420 number three then october 4 october 3rd again sarah ramos 34 now it's a woman silver spring maryland

03:17:21.920 killed at a post office a witness report seeing a white van or a truck speed away from the post

03:17:29.020 parking lot immediately after the shooting and we'll get back to that white van one second

03:17:31.980 then comes uh number five october 3rd still lorianne lewis rivera 25 again now that now we're on to young

03:17:38.860 women silver spring maryland shot dead at a shell gas station in kensington and then number six october

03:17:45.020 3rd 2002 this is the only one in washington dc pascal charlotte seven line right yeah 72 years old

03:17:54.220 shot in the chest as he just walked down georgia avenue taken to a hospital where he dies less than

03:17:59.880 an hour later that last one number six the first shooting to occur at night the others i had forgotten

03:18:07.720 about this we're all in broad daylight that's crazy it is crazy and what it does is it tells us

03:18:16.580 immediately as profilers that the person who did this had a high level of criminal sophistication

03:18:23.840 and what does that mean well it means he knows how to plan and execute his crimes another thing that we

03:18:30.740 saw now you have six shots six kills within 27 hours a very tight time frame generally this kind of

03:18:41.280 shooting would be labeled a spree in other words an offender who is going off and just killing as many

03:18:48.160 people as he or she can in a row but generally when we see that when we have a shooting spree we see

03:18:57.120 some level of decompensation in the shooter in his skills and his planning things just don't go

03:19:03.960 according to plan and things start falling apart he might have to carjack somebody's car to get away

03:19:09.360 he might have to shoot out with the police or somebody else who pulls a gun on him none of that happened

03:19:15.700 here so we felt that this offender while he was certainly in had to be in his late 30s or early 40s

03:19:26.120 at least that he had some kind of military or police training and experience it couldn't be

03:19:35.180 somebody who just learned how to shoot a gun at paper targets because when you're shooting at human

03:19:41.280 beings when you actually take a life that actually takes a certain kind of individual and somebody who's

03:19:49.440 doing that and is not rattled by it that's somebody who's done it before and like you said about your

03:19:55.380 nurse in the example in law school she had gone through trauma which is why she could remain calm

03:20:01.940 and i mentioned about special forces training they put you through every possible horrible scenario and

03:20:09.120 anything that could go wrong and things blowing up all around you so that when you're in special

03:20:13.840 forces and something and you're in a firefight you actually calm down you actually can see things that

03:20:21.460 other people can't even see because they're focused on all the bangs and the bullets and the explosions

03:20:27.500 while you are focused on what you need to do to survive this and stop the threat so we have just in that

03:20:36.120 first day a tremendous amount of information one a sniper he chose his weapon he chose this weapon

03:20:42.820 because he wanted to feel like god he wanted to feel omnipotent he wanted to feel like he could take a life

03:20:48.800 from afar and above and nobody can stop him and he chooses when their lives ended and that that came out because

03:20:57.760 these random victims who couldn't have been planned in other words some of them had just as a fluke sat down

03:21:05.880 on a bench or just decided to go to the post office that kind of thing you can't actually know that this person

03:21:12.880 is going to be at that place at that time and so when we put all that together these the random victimology

03:21:20.160 the sniper the fact that he had not decompensated at all we really thought we were looking for somebody

03:21:27.520 who had to be at least in his late 30s maybe early 40s and and experienced the line of fire before

03:21:36.400 why the late 30s and 40s i understand that you know possible ex-military but why late 30s and 40s

03:21:48.140 well because the the calm cool collected manner in which he planned and executed perfectly these crimes

03:21:56.040 we thought if they were in their 20s or even 30s that that the person wouldn't have had the level of

03:22:03.800 experience necessary to actually kill that many people and never make a mistake and never be seen

03:22:11.780 it's weird but it's like they wouldn't have had the maturity is basically what you're saying

03:22:15.940 exactly because what happens is when profiling is nothing more than reverse engineering a crime

03:22:21.600 and so we look at the behavior exhibited at a crime scene and work backwards to the type of person

03:22:26.860 who committed that crime of course victimology is the first thing we look at who are they picking

03:22:31.780 as their victims if they're picking people who are out on the street late at night street workers um

03:22:39.740 you know sex workers drug addicts runaways those are easy pickings nobody is looking for them nobody's

03:22:47.540 protecting them they're out on their own and they're putting themselves in a very risky situation

03:22:52.280 i'm not judging them just telling you how risky it is but if he's shooting people in the privacy and

03:22:59.500 security of their own homes what does that tell you he has to have a higher sophistication level

03:23:04.480 he has to get to people where they are most safe and he's doing almost that he's shooting people in

03:23:11.640 broad daylight in the normal course of their life with literally hundreds if not thousands of potential

03:23:19.640 eyewitnesses how is he doing that how is he doing that and nobody's seen him and you mentioned the white

03:23:26.380 fan yeah yeah wait hold on on that one for one second i know that we get we have more on the god

03:23:31.640 complex later but what was it at that point that suggested to you that this person may have one

03:23:38.200 the reason why we theorize that he had a god complex is because of his choice of weapon and crime his

03:23:48.220 mo screams out god complex we have studied all the other sniper cases in the history of the u.s

03:23:56.940 and we have seen their psychology and the way i always like to explain it i break it down this way

03:24:03.500 that genetics loads the gun personality and psychology aim it and your experiences pull the trigger

03:24:12.760 and that means it's a complicated mix of bio psycho and social that actually makes someone

03:24:19.380 into a killer in other words they have to have the genetic predisposition or at least potentiality

03:24:28.180 to be a killer they have their own personality and psychology which is the filter through which

03:24:35.020 they then experience life's experiences so that becomes the critical part because you develop your

03:24:45.000 own personality and psychology you start with a certain basis but you make literally in your life

03:24:52.080 tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of private little decisions in the privacy of your own

03:24:59.760 mind and those decisions about when you come into conflict with someone are you going to sort of try to

03:25:09.160 push away from the negative are you going to embrace the dark side are you going to actually just give

03:25:18.120 into it and in fact do everything you can to do bad things for the rest of your life and what happens is

03:25:25.180 these little choices that we make when we're very young then become bigger choices and there are times

03:25:31.020 in your life where you can get off that road and correct but if you don't it has this snowball effect

03:25:37.220 that by the time you're in your 20s and if you're impulsive you may act out very badly if you're in your 30s

03:25:45.040 you will think about it more if you're in your 40s you will plan it very carefully and execute it very well

03:25:52.540 a lot of people can plan things but they typically fall apart unless you've had a tremendous amount

03:25:59.000 of experience doing that thing so that's why we felt in this case that he was older and the fact that he

03:26:06.080 chose out of all the weapons he could have chosen somebody as sophisticated as this he chooses a sniper

03:26:13.140 rifle at a distance because he wants to feel powerful this empowers him by taking the lives of others

03:26:23.400 and this is something that we've learned from from interviewing long detailed interviews with other

03:26:30.240 snipers people who have been successful and people who have been stopped before they killed anyone

03:26:35.580 what is it about that kind of a weapon and killing somebody from a distance with a sniper rifle

03:26:41.620 that is meaningful to them the challenge of it well there is a certain challenge of it but they see it as

03:26:50.740 a way to be godlike you know everybody thinks of god up in heaven and god decides when somebody lives or dies

03:27:00.780 right so that's what they're doing they're sort of assuming the role of god they're superimposing

03:27:07.580 that on people they want to cause the fear and terror that they successfully did in the entire washington dc

03:27:16.440 maryland virginia beltway area that was his goal it was very clear um he he wasn't uh he didn't come out

03:27:25.560 with a statement saying um i want this much money i will stop if you do that he was trying to engender

03:27:35.100 terror by not letting anybody feel like they were safe and so all the parents were worried about sending

03:27:45.200 their kids to school all the people that had to go to work all the people that had to work in outdoor

03:27:51.260 jobs all the people that had to get gas in their cars everybody was terrified at that time when you

03:27:58.080 were talking about how calm how collected one would have to be to execute you know this murder spree the

03:28:07.500 way he did how would somebody being a sociopath factor in right like could it could a sociopath

03:28:14.600 who is 22 have that same calmness that just a crazed killer might have at age 42

03:28:23.340 right well first of all sociopathies a sociopath is a diagnosis it's a psychological diagnosis it's in

03:28:32.980 the dsm and you have to actually do tests to diagnose a person like that instead in in law enforcement

03:28:40.560 we do indirect personality assessments and we talk about psychopathy instead psycho psychopathy

03:28:47.780 the the the disorder that leads that means somebody is a psychopath is based on what dr robert hair put

03:28:59.020 together he put together the pclr the psychopathy excuse me the psychopathy checklist revised which has

03:29:06.600 20 20 different aspects that make it up and what you do is you rate someone a zero if they don't have

03:29:14.940 this trait a one if they kind of had this trait and a two if they definitely have this trait and it's

03:29:21.440 things like narcissism and getting in trouble when they're kids and things like that multiple marriages

03:29:29.040 a lot of problems in their life but if you score more than 30 you're classified as a psychopath if

03:29:40.380 you score more than 20 a lot of people think you're probably there or almost there but one of the things

03:29:46.220 that one of the most prevalent traits in psychopaths is a lack of human empathy now what does that mean what

03:29:54.100 is empathy it's our ability to put ourselves in other people's shoes and feel bad about them when

03:29:59.860 they go through bad things and it's one of the things that helps prevent us from hurting people

03:30:05.780 and being violent this is this is a sort of a survival mechanism that our brain puts in

03:30:13.340 in front of it's sort of our frontal lobe it's our policeman it basically says stop before you go too far

03:30:20.060 and many psychopaths have none of that at all they are completely devoid of empathy and many of them

03:30:30.140 are completely devoid of human emotion now the smart ones can see it in other people and they can mimic

03:30:37.620 it learn to fake it right fake it very well and that's what they use to manipulate people ted bundy

03:30:43.880 ted bundy is a great example also i don't i don't really love giving names of people that are bad i i i work for

03:30:55.120 the victims not for the bad guys but

03:30:57.300 bandersloot the guy who killed natalie holloway and also the daughter of a south american race car driver

03:31:09.260 and on the five-year anniversary of of killing natalie holloway oh that's right i forgot he killed a

03:31:17.580 second person totally forgot that she had found out because she read something on the internet about him

03:31:24.140 on the anniversary and he ends up killing her but what he does is he walks out of the hotel room

03:31:29.960 with two empty coffee cups goes and gets coffee and comes back to quote discover her dead

03:31:38.440 immediately after killing her he recovers comes up with a plan if i go out and look and carry two cups

03:31:48.380 i can say i thought she was still alive she was alive when i left and when i came back i found her dead he's

03:31:55.340 immediately trying to to build an alibi well guess what he didn't realize that there was a camera literally

03:32:02.820 right outside his hotel room door and nobody went in or out after he left and so they were very easily

03:32:10.000 able to break through that alibi but the important thing is that psychopaths have the ability to recover

03:32:16.340 quickly they they actually live for thrills so they're exciting people to be around for example but

03:32:24.600 in this case we saw the fact that he was able to do this in a cold calculated manner as not only

03:32:33.040 confirming that he was probably going to be high on the psychopathy checklist but also confirming that

03:32:39.200 he had experience doing exactly this somewhere in his life we need that checklist posted in the show notes

03:32:47.100 so that young women dating can just quietly drop these questions can't do it all at once ladies it's

03:32:52.900 two on the nose but you know just like over the first date you could maybe squeeze into you know

03:32:57.360 second date have like a friend show up and ask a few there must be a way of peppering these

03:33:02.260 if your instincts haven't served you well i i would be i would be a little cautious about it uh just

03:33:08.580 because um you know people who haven't done this thousands of times can can sort of misinterpret

03:33:14.860 behavior there's a lot of things that people a lot of little traits or or um characteristics of of

03:33:22.220 psychological disorders minor characteristics of them that we all have but people can see those

03:33:28.960 minor characteristics and think it means everything in the diagnostic category and they could be wrong

03:33:36.340 that way although we we just we actually did a did a show for audible and it's called am i dating a serial killer

03:33:43.700 killer i wanted to ask you about that and believe me uh when when you know some of it's kind of

03:33:51.000 light-hearted and it's hosted by a comedian so we try to be get to the lighter side of it but there was

03:33:56.840 one case in particular where they called me in to interview this woman because i believe she was

03:34:02.920 dating a psychopath i believe that he was a very dangerous person and in fact he did end up killing

03:34:11.440 someone so my god you you should be incredibly careful when you meet somebody new because especially

03:34:19.560 somebody who is charming charismatic and energetic and has all these amazing stories you should kind of

03:34:28.640 dig down and meet their friends and their families and if they say well i don't really talk to my

03:34:34.400 families big red flag if they say well i don't have a lot of friends big red flag um there are you know if you

03:34:43.020 look at let's say the the the tinder swindler that guy i mean when he did his thing he made women feel

03:34:52.720 incredibly special he he flew them on a private jet he did all these amazing things all these gifts

03:34:57.900 he said his life was totally consumed by them well it's all a very well planned out manipulation

03:35:05.680 and you have to be able to as much as you're feeling great about it and it's amazing and it's

03:35:12.300 exactly what you wanted if it's real it will survive you stepping back and taking some time and saying

03:35:19.280 okay this is what we're going to do we're going to slow this down we're going to look into some

03:35:23.600 things we're going to take some time to actually get to know each other before we make all these

03:35:27.820 amazing moves and that will put a wrench in his plans because he needs you to go fast so that he can

03:35:34.620 move on to the next one and the next one and the next one maybe maybe it's not so bad to be dating

03:35:40.980 somebody who's a little dull maybe you could maybe dull in the beginning is good because it sounds like

03:35:46.780 they don't tend to project dull if they're trying to swindle you or woo you or probably just get you

03:35:52.740 under their power uh so yeah okay that's a good thing to look for i mean ideally hot but dull so

03:35:58.520 consider that ladies uh and we'll we'll continue more of this in a little bit with jim because

03:36:02.120 we definitely want to know more about am i dating a serial killer who doesn't who wouldn't listen to

03:36:06.760 that um okay so and by the way just because you're not a serial killer doesn't mean you're safe i mean

03:36:12.640 psychopath sociopath these are all deeply problematic killing animals always deeply problematic and

03:36:17.980 people women overlook it it's like oh what do you mean he killed the family cat oh but he's so

03:36:24.300 handsome and he treats me so well ladies pay attention all right wait stand by because i want

03:36:28.700 to get to i want to get back to sniper and get us through that so now we move on to the next day

03:36:33.800 and it takes us to october 4th another person uh is shot though she she survives a 43 year old woman

03:36:42.060 caroline sewell back to michael's a parking lot she's putting her bags inside of her toyota minivan

03:36:48.000 you can picture it can't you you know you can picture yourself doing this amazingly she survives

03:36:52.880 but the dc virginia maryland sort of area is absolutely in a panic now i mean as we discussed

03:37:01.100 and here's just a little bit of sound from locals at and around that time this is slot five

03:37:07.200 i do walk around my community with a little more caution than i did before outside they can't go

03:37:14.920 outside and the blinds in the schools are all closed so it's very much a bunker kind of mentality you

03:37:21.440 know feeling that they're experiencing as soon as people get home from work they stay in they're not

03:37:27.600 going out even the restaurants are there's nobody in the restaurants residents of washington have faced

03:37:33.320 an awful lot of stuff in the last year from people flying airplanes into buildings and anthrax attacks

03:37:41.280 we face you know crazy shooters most days of the year at least the threat of it uh so we're just

03:37:50.940 trying to go along as business as usual yeah i mean easier said than done yeah that that man was an

03:37:59.360 anomaly at the time and i'll tell you both tim my brother tim was also an fbi agent and i arrived at

03:38:05.680 that michael store at exactly the same time because it turns out that it is almost equidistant between

03:38:12.760 our two houses we literally pulled up i look over as as i'm pulling into a parking space he's pulling

03:38:19.540 into the one right next to me and we ran up to the sheriff and we said you know how can we help and

03:38:24.820 unfortunately um i wouldn't say that that the sheriff had been uh equipped or his department to handle

03:38:34.000 something like this the fact is that all these shootings the days before happened up north of

03:38:42.020 washington dc and just touching into the north side of washington dc and now he goes 50 miles south

03:38:48.240 what the hell is going on here but to me the first thing that i thought was hmm kind of did all these

03:38:57.100 shootings north of dc working his way into dc just touching into dc and then he jumps 50 miles south

03:39:04.660 why is he avoiding washington dc hmm possibly because he knows he'd go head to head with the fbi

03:39:13.320 and the other federal agencies in washington dc who have a a worldwide network of agents and

03:39:20.680 communication versus the small towns around dc that have access to dc's news but they don't have

03:39:29.260 the fbi they don't have federal law enforcement they don't have big city big police departments

03:39:37.500 oh so and so he's dancing around the biggest media circus in the world but not dealing head to head

03:39:45.400 with big law enforcement so you're getting this picture of somebody who has some sophistication

03:39:51.200 for sure exactly this is not some bumpkin and is thinking about what he's doing and why he's doing it

03:39:56.920 so he's a planner he's a manipulator but tim and i we we ended up finding out that that the sheriff had

03:40:04.520 let go um all of the all of the witnesses that had been there um did not take any names what and and

03:40:14.200 did not do a canvas of the area for any forensics um actually the the media line that he set up had

03:40:23.160 been about 50 feet away from where the van was and what i did was i i looked at the angle of entry

03:40:31.000 because the bullet went through her and into the back of her van and so i looked at the angle of

03:40:36.300 entry and then i spotted a a sign a few hundred yards away and i started walking off a grid to do

03:40:43.800 a grid search of the area this is something that i'm very experienced in and and i walked 87 strides

03:40:49.800 till i found a shell casing from a 223 and that was the kind of weapon that was being used

03:40:57.520 so although the the press were at 50 feet from the van this piece of evidence was 87 yards away

03:41:08.300 so we had to contaminating the whole crime scene well they could have but the the fact is that this is

03:41:13.920 why i think he chose small town law enforcement versus the big guns and he was very smart to do that

03:41:21.480 and he would continue to do that dancing back and forth north and south around washington dc and not

03:41:27.580 in washington dc proper can you explain more about the weapon um you know in today's day and age

03:41:33.000 everyone's familiar now with ar-15 less so this rifle yeah i mean it is it's a 223 uh it is a very

03:41:42.000 bush master it's a bush master 223 it's just that's just a brand i mean it's the same kind of weapon

03:41:49.080 that uh an m16 would be uh the project the the shell casing is rather large and the projectile is

03:41:57.620 rather small which means it's going to go fast and far uh it's a it's a it's an accurate weapon

03:42:04.700 it's very semi-automatic yes it's semi-automatic and it's and it's basically the kind of weapon that

03:42:11.480 uh you know troops on the ground and military will use because it's so simple it's very hard to jam

03:42:17.080 you could stick it in mud and pick it back up and and still use the weapon and so it's it's a very

03:42:23.720 reliable type of weapon and and certainly functional for this particular type of crime

03:42:30.540 the troops use machine guns this is not that this is no this is single right yeah one bullet trigger

03:42:43.220 one bullet right but so far that's all he's needed yeah yeah one shot one kill and that

03:42:50.280 that is something that is really up until this it's very scary because it also tells us that this person

03:42:57.640 really knows what he's doing because in order for him to be invisible in other words nobody actually

03:43:04.960 saw him pull the trigger ever it means he has to have a really good sniper's perch and since it's out

03:43:13.700 in public in the daylight that means he has some way of concealing himself and of course people started

03:43:21.520 hearing we started hearing about a white van who uh that sped away from one of the scenes well if you

03:43:29.180 heard shots and you were in a white van well it's very reasonable that you might want to speed away

03:43:33.520 it's also very important to know that a white uh sorry a white commercial van is actually the most

03:43:43.320 common type of van used in in small businesses and in fact one of the cable companies the year before

03:43:52.520 had sold off 1800 of these white vans in the area uh because they were doing and ramping up a new

03:44:02.840 fleet and and so there were there were over abundance and i think at one of the shooting scenes

03:44:10.040 when um when one of the local police officers told my brother yeah we're looking for the white van

03:44:15.560 somebody saw the white van my brother said okay stop right here we're at an intersection

03:44:19.840 i want you to count the number of white vans you see right now and it was nine or 13 white vans that

03:44:27.020 just in their sight line right then so somebody's always going to be searching for the white van if

03:44:31.900 somebody tells you to think about the white van you're going to see the white van i mean i've told my

03:44:37.920 my kids like as you get to be driving age or you're driving with your friends or whatever

03:44:42.600 do not park next to vans do not park next to a van there is no point there's no reason there's plenty

03:44:48.320 of parking spots just bad things happen it's just too easy for bad guys to reach out and grab somebody

03:44:54.640 who's smaller weaker right and take them no question it's good to be proactive it's good to be situationally

03:45:00.600 aware and in this case what ends up happening is that the sheriff when i went back and talked to him

03:45:08.640 and i said what have the people said because michael's is literally in the parking lot of what's

03:45:15.440 called the spot sylvania mall and i looked around there were at least 3 000 cars visible to me at that

03:45:21.940 time and i said what witnesses what what have they said and he said there were no witnesses so i sent

03:45:28.400 them all home and i said come on somebody somebody must have said something and he said well there's

03:45:33.720 this one guy but he's 18 years old and he uses drugs and he's lied to us before and he said uh what

03:45:42.200 and i said what what did he say he said uh he said it was a black guy with an afro who peeled out in a dark

03:45:50.180 sedan and i said great did you put out an apb on it he said no i put out the apb on the white van just

03:45:56.540 like chief moose told us wow and i just you know took in a deep breath but i also clocked it now this

03:46:04.400 is an unreliable witness who's lied to the police before who's a drug user but it could why would he

03:46:11.360 lie about this yeah it could be and and the other thing is our viewers may not maybe they do remember

03:46:18.060 but there we didn't have cameras everywhere back then this was immediately post 9-11 it would take a

03:46:23.400 while for that apparatus to get up at every corner of america it wasn't there yet and not only that

03:46:29.400 this was a very rural area this is fredericksburg virginia in fact it's spottsylvania county virginia

03:46:35.400 and it's a tiny little area that has that happens to have some box stores and some a mall but it's

03:46:43.140 generally it's just a very suburban 55 miles away from washington dc kind of quiet little bedroom town

03:46:53.160 and the iphone didn't come out until 2007 as well so people weren't popping open their phones and

03:47:00.040 getting the immediate aftermath sometimes it bears reminders you know about how we used to live

03:47:05.500 versus now and these things that we've just become accustomed to right yeah we were using pagers in

03:47:11.100 the fbi at the time okay so the the next the next shooting uh and thank goodness this person

03:47:19.740 survived was of a child a 13 year old shot critically wounded outside of the benjamin tasker middle

03:47:25.540 school in bowie maryland so he was shot in the chest but he survived he would later testify at one

03:47:31.240 of the trials and two days later on october 9th 2002 keep in mind again this started as far as we know on

03:47:38.560 october 2nd so here we are a week into this a tarot card is found near the scene of that shooting at the

03:47:45.840 school and this is a i would say first big clue no absolutely well the first big clue about that is

03:47:54.680 that uh this was a response to a lot of the unfortunate statements that police and political

03:48:04.380 figures in the area were making at the time we told them that the sniper has a god complex and the last

03:48:12.020 thing you want to do is challenge that sniper what you want to do is appease them and then hopefully

03:48:18.460 they will sort of lower their aggression and actually start communicating instead what happened was

03:48:26.540 the the chief chief moose made a statement that the streets are safe the schools are safe

03:48:33.280 so to prove them wrong after they called the sniper a coward going after unarmed people all this other

03:48:40.980 stuff person after person was paraded in front of the cameras saying that they wanted to to make a

03:48:47.080 statement and what they did was they shot somebody on their way into school this 13 year old boy and like

03:48:53.580 you said luckily he survived and when they did the search there they found the sniper perch in a patch

03:49:00.900 of woods next to the school and this tarot card was there and very very um a lot in alignment

03:49:10.640 with our profile at this point was the statement on the top call me god and this confirmed and i think

03:49:19.580 finally chief moose listened to us about this sniper it's the death tarot card and it says call me god

03:49:29.420 on it and then on the back is says this is for you mr police no press and call me god again and

03:49:38.340 this was a very interesting thing and as we began to really crunch all this data that we were getting

03:49:46.640 the information from all the shootings that happened in one day with one shot one kill the fact that he's

03:49:53.200 bouncing around to these small jurisdictions the fact that nobody has actually seen him the fact that

03:49:57.680 everybody's chasing ghost white vans the fact that he communicated with us saying call me god

03:50:02.940 and the fact that he said this is for you mr police well that really raised some issues with jim fitzgerald

03:50:13.220 who was my buddy in the behavioral analysis unit and who had started forensic linguistic profiling and

03:50:20.160 that is using the actual content of the words the construction of the language to tell a lot about

03:50:28.320 the writer and what we found was a great amount of detail that we would start to think about but we

03:50:38.400 didn't actually have sort of a a you know sit down drag out profile session until a few days several days

03:50:46.640 later so the tarot card was big but the focus on the white van would continue uh for example the same day

03:50:56.880 the tarot card was found october 9th another shooting dean harold myers 53 of gaithersburg maryland killed

03:51:03.220 while pumping gas at a station in manassas virginia a white minivan seen in the area is first thought to

03:51:09.740 have some connection with the shooting later cleared by police october 11th 2002 kenneth bridges 53 a

03:51:17.900 philadelphia businessman killed at an exxon station just off i-95 near fredericksburg virginia

03:51:23.420 police enforce a huge road roadblock trying to find a white van like vehicle with a ladder rack on top

03:51:30.780 sorry go ahead jim and let me tell you something about that that was massaponics virginia it's the

03:51:35.300 exit just south of fredericksburg virginia so just south of where the michaels shooting happened just

03:51:41.160 one exit down the road my brother um was one of the first law enforcement to show up at that scene and

03:51:49.120 as soon as he got there he called his wife they lived as i said just not a short distance away

03:51:55.660 um and he said stay inside whatever you do don't come out here and she said i just left that very

03:52:04.740 gas station and and she literally had the the receipt from pumping gas literally 10 minutes before

03:52:12.780 the shot was fired there now fortunately she was in a big white van but it was one of those big 15

03:52:19.300 passenger white vans that stood stands taller than she is so a sniper would never have had a shot with

03:52:26.500 her standing next to that van it was very fortunate but unfortunately the man who did stop there he

03:52:33.400 literally stopped there because he didn't want to have to he was driving up to philadelphia i believe

03:52:39.200 he didn't want to have to stop anywhere near dc because of the sniper he said i'll fill up my tank

03:52:45.540 here and then i'll be able to drive the rest of the way to philly he was actually on the phone with

03:52:50.140 his wife telling her that when he was shot and killed no poor guy tragic story and this is another

03:52:56.220 reason why the whole thing was so disconcerting is and i talked about this with our with our guest on

03:53:00.720 the zodiac killings where in which the people there seemed to be no motive you know the the zodiac killer

03:53:07.900 didn't steal purses or wallets or commit sexual assaults it just seemed to be killing for fun

03:53:14.780 and so it was like those are especially disturbing because we like to believe we can find patterns

03:53:21.120 that we can then avoid that will keep us safe this is i think it's just a psychological psychological

03:53:26.340 crutch and this is similar it's lacking any crutch for any sane person to try to use because it this

03:53:34.900 could have happened to anyone a child near a school a person pumping gas a person getting groceries a

03:53:41.680 man walking down the street it's like the liquor store the parking lots there's just no stopping

03:53:47.640 anything you did forever as a hermit was was a risk anything you did and as i said earlier people were

03:53:53.520 literally putting up blankets over every window in their house they were afraid not only of going out

03:53:59.400 in public they were afraid that since so many people were off the street that the sniper was going to

03:54:05.000 start shooting people in their own homes this is a it's a very effective tool when you randomly kill

03:54:11.600 people at will with nobody being able to identify you or stop you the terror level just kept rising over

03:54:19.740 these 23 days it just became unbelievably scary just to live and operate in that area my brother

03:54:28.100 to his credit he he ran the swat team at the washington field office of the fbi he had all his

03:54:37.280 swat team members out patrolling the area because he started we helped him kind of profile the kinds of

03:54:44.480 places that that that these shootings were taking place they were all near uh good avenues for egress

03:54:50.520 a highway nearby so they can get away fast that was important to the shooter so he was driving around to

03:54:59.480 small towns exits around big highways so that he could try to interdict and unfortunately um he was he actually

03:55:10.400 heard the shot at the home depot and i think that's the next shooting um your brother did tim yes tim did

03:55:18.640 and and he was the first law enforcement to arrive at that scene oh my god and unfortunately it was a

03:55:25.140 it was an fbi employee that had been shot and killed yes yes okay and that was um a woman right that

03:55:32.340 was at linda franklin 47 arlington virginia this is the 11th victim though not yet fatality because

03:55:40.260 um two the early two the earlier folks survived um she was shot and killed by a single gunshot in

03:55:47.280 the home depot parking lot in falls church virginia an fbi intelligence analyst and i knew that you and

03:55:52.820 your brother were working this case but i did not know that he was the first on on that scene which

03:55:57.860 must have been horrific 47 is not old and to have have it turn out to be someone who's essentially a

03:56:03.760 colleague even worse and you know he just he just describes you know seeing her her husband you know

03:56:11.660 holding her and and her dying in his arms and it just was horrific and this really uh got him even

03:56:19.120 more riled up and he knew that that this was a very sophisticated killer and we had been talking

03:56:27.040 throughout this whole process and at at about this time we decided we need to really do a push to try

03:56:36.160 to gather all this information and get it out to all the law enforcement agencies in the area and it would

03:56:43.280 be uh very shortly after that that the ashland shooting happened uh that was that was even further

03:56:51.320 south away from dc about halfway between fredericksburg and richmond virginia uh so that

03:56:57.680 was october 19th that was october 19th 2002 five days after one in between between there i can't

03:57:04.060 remember so there's two more and after linda franklin 47 was killed five days later october 19th jeffrey

03:57:09.940 hopper 37 shot in a parking lot at a ponderosa steakhouse to me that is just so one in ashland yeah

03:57:16.400 that's the one he did survive he survived but you know the ponderosa god we all grew up going to the

03:57:22.040 ponderosa it's just like these things that are americana you know there's something about it that

03:57:26.640 just it shakes you to the core the doctors were able to remove the bullet from from jeffrey hopper

03:57:32.760 during surgery and connect it to the others uh the ballistics coming back from the other victims and

03:57:38.700 amazingly he did survive the final victim was october 22 2002 uh bus driver conrad johnson 35 of oxen

03:57:46.300 hill maryland shot while just standing on the top step inside of his commuter bus in aspen hill

03:57:50.760 maryland he would later die he was the 13th person known to be shot by the dc sniper um again three of

03:57:58.340 those survived 10 were killed go ahead jim so what happened was that when when the shot happened i was

03:58:06.040 actually in the when the shooting happened in ashland virginia i was actually in richmond virginia at

03:58:11.360 the time so i came up my brother got to the crime scene before i did and he he found uh i'd say a

03:58:20.240 situation in great disarray and what he did was he was working with the fbi's human scent recovery dogs

03:58:27.440 um and these dogs uh were specially trained to pick up the scent and and actually follow the path

03:58:36.120 most recently taken by that human if they're in this area and it's a it's a it's an amazing program

03:58:43.720 but it would take me many hours to actually explain all the things they did but when my brother arrived

03:58:49.720 uh all of the searchers were going in a particular area because the victim said i heard the shot and it

03:58:57.320 came from that direction and when tim uh when they presented the scent pads from the the tarot card

03:59:06.760 that had been found and also some of the shell casings that had been found they they were able to

03:59:14.520 uh they they got a scent and their dog said that it was in the opposite direction and all the cops said

03:59:21.440 nah it's not that way this is the way the victim said it came from and tim knew that the guy was

03:59:27.020 standing next to a brick wall and the the echoes that you can get off a wall of a shot can can make

03:59:34.600 it sound like it comes from anywhere and so he he the dog takes off in one direction as soon as they

03:59:40.240 break the line of the woods he sees an area where it's laid out it's the leaves are all crushed down

03:59:46.060 like like somebody was laying there and he shines his flashlight up and they're tacked to a tree is a

03:59:53.140 is a little baggie like a halloween baggie with some pink line no paper in it and he says well

04:00:00.820 obviously they left us another message unfortunately there was a big argument about whether or not they

04:00:07.800 should open this thing but tim said i can read through it and it says the streets are not safe

04:00:14.300 your children are not safe anywhere he said there's a threat in this we need to open it now we need to

04:00:19.500 get this out to the public and uh because it was in a small town and they didn't know who should be

04:00:26.600 in charge they decided to hold on to it it was it was now late late late into the morning and they

04:00:33.920 wanted to wait till the bosses weighed in so they did not open it in time to get the call that came into

04:00:39.920 that ponderosa uh at the the the uh payphone right at the front door uh that was ringing while they were

04:00:48.080 still on the scene at six o'clock in the morning and nobody answered the phone so it was an attempt

04:00:53.460 by the sniper to actually communicate with law enforcement it's a missed opportunity and there

04:00:59.700 would be others let me tell you but the thing that we knew from this letter when we finally got it open

04:01:06.300 and we read what was going on we saw a huge dichotomy between the actions the planning

04:01:14.480 and the execution of the shootings and then these communications and you can see it right now

04:01:21.320 there are those little stars on it this is the cover sheet to the letter that you just referenced

04:01:25.180 let me just set it up for the cover sheet reads for you mr police call me god in quotes do not release

04:01:30.360 to the press keep going jim yeah and you can see there's stars on it like like this was a kindergarten

04:01:36.420 uh you know homework assignment that was handed in and done well so the teacher put little stars on it

04:01:41.800 that's what it looked like it was very immature and childish so when we get into the profiling room

04:01:47.940 and we're around our table and we're all arguing about this case and trying to figure out who this

04:01:52.780 sniper is we we had definitely nailed down that this is a very experienced and sophisticated person

04:02:02.100 who's probably now we're thinking in his you know early to mid 40s who is police or military trained

04:02:09.640 police or military experienced who is who is on a mission like he he literally has a a very specific mission

04:02:19.820 and he's carrying it out flawlessly nobody has seen him yet and jim and and so we we kind of nailed those

04:02:28.680 aspects of the profile and jim fitzgerald says guys i understand exactly what you're saying and and i agree

04:02:35.640 with you but here's the problem when this guy's communicating with us i gotta say he's he's immature

04:02:44.400 he says this is for you mr police as if he's looking up to the police he's writing on you know

04:02:50.660 basically on on kids school paper and he's putting stars on it what kind of self-respecting 45 year old

04:02:58.380 man is going to do this if this guy is an adult he's just barely adult but i'm i'm thinking he's younger

04:03:04.820 this is what jim fitzgerald says and everybody's like no way that's not possible it can't be

04:03:09.280 somebody who's this sophisticated can't be that young there's no way it's not possible for them to have

04:03:14.880 done this without police military training and experience on the line of fire and so i said look then

04:03:20.780 we have one of two possibilities here either we have a situation where we have a 45 year old man

04:03:30.100 who's incredibly experienced who's incredibly great at planning and executing these shootings

04:03:34.300 but he decompensates when he's communicating with us and he acts like a teenager or for the first time

04:03:42.880 in u.s criminal history we have a sniper team and everybody blew up no snipers don't play well with other

04:03:49.060 each other they don't they work alone every case in history so far has been like this you're a fool if you

04:03:54.740 think it's otherwise and fitz chimes in he says well it would make sense because i'm telling you

04:03:59.780 whoever wrote this is like a child how can he be so sophisticated and be a child and everybody's

04:04:06.180 telling me it can't happen and i said well it could happen if you have a 45 year old and you have a 15

04:04:12.140 year old and the 45 year old is controlling the 15 year old you said that at that point yeah i did and

04:04:19.460 i said in my mind the way he could control him best is to totally control him by sexually victimizing

04:04:26.820 him and everybody says oh you're an expert in that field that's why you think that's happening

04:04:31.280 they didn't believe it and i started talking them through it and i started saying how how this is a

04:04:37.020 possibility and in fact i convinced them there was a probability and we actually put it in the profile

04:04:44.320 at that point totally unconfirmed until 11 years later but well that one piece of it but the rest

04:04:51.960 of it would be confirmed within days oh yes right but the part of it about how how these two snipers

04:04:59.800 for the first time in u.s history were willing and able to work together one was training the other

04:05:06.960 it turns out and muhammad was sexually abusing malvo basically from the beginning

04:05:14.880 it was unfathomable even to these fbi experts it took a profiler like you to say

04:05:28.360 trust me i this is a real possibility we need to be taking seriously

04:05:33.500 and yeah and can you just can you speak to also to because the other clue that was in this

04:05:39.260 this letter was that phrase mr police you spoke to how it suggested he was young but it suggested

04:05:46.600 something else as well right and another thing that jim fitzgerald brought up was the fact that

04:05:52.240 the tarot card plus the phrase mr police he said mr police is actually a phrase used a lot it's a

04:05:59.780 disrespectful thing but it looks polite it's used a lot in jamaican reggae songs so he said i'm feeling

04:06:10.080 like there's a jamaican or caribbean influence in this writer's life he said i can't say for sure

04:06:18.240 but i wouldn't be surprised if this is a jamaican american or african american who has jamaican roots

04:06:27.020 or caribbean roots and i said you know back at the michael's store shooting the one eyewitness that

04:06:38.680 the sheriff told me about who he thought was a liar because he was a drug user and had lied to the

04:06:43.240 police before he said right it was a guy with a big afro a black guy who peeled out in a dark sedan

04:06:51.560 we need to we need to change this profile from a white van work van to a dark sedan and we're probably

04:07:04.900 looking for two african americans with some tie to the caribbean and that changed everything

04:07:16.220 now you've got a different profile and as it would turn out you got the right one but you don't have

04:07:21.780 the guys and you don't have the right car uh and you know still there's we don't know which car it is

04:07:28.860 we just have a general feeling and it turns out as they went back and interviewed people who were around

04:07:35.540 the neighborhood of the first two or three days of shooting one of them had also seen

04:07:41.880 not a car racing away from the scene but a dark sedan slowly pulling away from the scene

04:07:49.200 that is a smart tactician that is somebody who knows that racing away is going to raise the

04:07:56.080 awareness and set off the alarms but slowly driving down a neighborhood street it probably isn't going

04:08:02.580 to really stand out in anybody's mind and so how did we get from that point to just a few days later

04:08:09.820 the final victim was shot on october 22nd and within 20 within 48 hours um there there was an arrest

04:08:20.560 and in between i should say this here's you mentioned chief moose i mean right around that time right

04:08:27.300 before the capture he had this message for the community which still sounded rather scary this is

04:08:33.700 soundbite one the person or people

04:08:36.840 have demonstrated a willingness and ability to shoot people of all ages all races all genders

04:08:45.100 and they've struck at different times of the day different days at different locations

04:08:51.300 we recognize the concerns of the community and therefore are going to provide the exact language

04:09:00.220 in the message that pertains to the threat it is in the form of a postscript

04:09:06.820 your children are not safe anywhere at any time

04:09:14.420 my god the thought of hearing that yeah that would be pretty scary and if you notice the person standing

04:09:23.900 behind chief moose at that moment i believe was an fbi agent and um what he said was basically

04:09:32.260 exactly what we recommended that he say um and i think my brother had a great deal to do with the fact

04:09:39.020 that that line came out because uh he was very very adamant that that people should know that the children

04:09:46.780 of this community are being of the entire area are being threatened by these guys so that they would

04:09:51.900 protect their kids so that we wouldn't put kids in harm's way and what happened was they wanted to

04:09:59.180 just hide the fact that there was a direct threat in the letter but we said it will actually appease the

04:10:06.060 shooter if you continue his line of communication if you put it out there he knows it's going to scare

04:10:13.820 people he will feel good about it he might calm down because we showed the cover sheet to that

04:10:20.620 letter left by the ponderosa but the body of it was per cbs reporting at the time the body of it

04:10:26.540 uh read it included a demand for 10 million dollars giving the 16 digit account number and a pin uh that

04:10:33.500 was from a stolen bank of america platinum credit card and it included the chilling postscript quote

04:10:38.140 your children are not safe anywhere at any time um so yeah so the the the threat had been made and

04:10:45.420 now the chief moose was listening to you it's pointless to go out there and tell the community

04:10:51.180 that they are safe and that you've got it under control a it's not true and b it's provocative

04:10:55.740 to the sniper right absolutely and so what happens at this point is that and this is something we were

04:11:02.060 trying to encourage we were trying to encourage communication from the sniper or snipers at this

04:11:08.300 point and what happened was they called the the excuse me they called the hotline and very unfortunately

04:11:18.140 um when they called they said call me god and people on the task force who took that call

04:11:27.900 thought that it was just somebody gaming them oh no and scamming them and uh they actually hung up

04:11:34.780 the phone they called back again uh they actually wrote about this and that note um it was very

04:11:41.020 unfortunate uh but eventually one thing that they did was they called up a priest and they left a voice

04:11:51.180 message on that priest voice recording phone recording answering machine sorry voicemail it's been so long

04:12:00.700 it's been so long i couldn't even remember what it was anyway on his answering machine and and in that they said

04:12:11.500 you should look what happened in and i'm uh and i'm i'm trying to remember the name of town it might

04:12:20.620 have been arlington where was that shot fired through the uh through the apple excuse me through the michael's

04:12:26.140 store where nobody got hit yes um hold on a second wasn't that that was a michael's in aspen hill maryland

04:12:33.980 all right um the i'm talking about yeah before that there was actually a shooting in in um

04:12:39.900 montgomery alabama right there you go okay yeah so that was one of the ones that we hadn't yet discussed

04:12:45.820 that was on the list right not attributable to the sniper yet but but other murders were happening in

04:12:50.540 the country at and around this time and one of them was about to get linked in right and so what

04:12:55.340 happened was in the in the message that was left on this priest answering machine they said look at

04:13:02.780 the shooting in montgomery and everybody there because we were talking about the first days of

04:13:10.700 shootings in montgomery county thought it was montgomery county maryland but somebody came up with the

04:13:17.420 idea hmm maybe he's talking about montgomery alabama it could be and so they looked at to see if there were

04:13:26.780 any unsolved shootings there and yes there was a store and somebody came in and uh picked up a magazine

04:13:38.780 and then left and then a couple of minutes later a bullet goes flying through the window just misses

04:13:44.460 a woman behind the cash register and in that case they picked up they had picked up a magazine

04:13:51.420 and let me just tell you glossy magazines are the absolute best surface in the world for collecting

04:13:58.300 fingerprints if you touch that the oils in your finger will interact with the the the photograph

04:14:06.540 that's on the cover and it actually burns it in permanently burns your fingerprint in permanently

04:14:12.220 into that picture and if you've ever tried to that's why people who are trying to save magazines will put them in

04:14:17.900 plastic sleeves so they don't get destroyed that way well they had a perfect fingerprint which came back to

04:14:25.260 a 15 year old named malvo who they were then able to track to a relationship with an older male

04:14:36.140 muhammad back in the state who was from the state of washington and they found his car they had he had a caprice they got his license plate

04:14:47.820 and they went and the fbi went to his place in the state of washington and basically did a search warrant they found a tree

04:14:55.420 stump in his backyard they literally excavated the tree stump shipped it to the lab

04:15:01.020 took out lots of different bullets from it and matched them to the shooting the shooter in the dc sniper case so

04:15:08.860 we knew then who we were looking for and when that apb had gone out you know with the profile

04:15:15.980 and everything meshed together then within 24 hours they were actually spotted by a trucker at a rest stop

04:15:24.140 sleeping in the in the caprice and uh the fbi's hrt team moved in there were hundreds of other

04:15:33.020 law enforcement and and truckers actually chipped in and helped blocking off roadways and the escape

04:15:40.460 routes so that they couldn't get away and they were taken down without anybody any further loss of life

04:15:47.020 jim why did they why did they call that in i mean it was it was in a way a confession to say check out

04:15:53.740 that the shooting in montgomery i don't know that they knew that they left a fingerprint but they they

04:15:59.500 must have known it could potentially be tied to them he felt omnipotent at this point he felt like

04:16:04.940 there's no way he felt law enforcement was so stupid they would never catch him he was bragging he was

04:16:10.380 trying to get people to realize that he was even better and he'd done much more than they thought

04:16:16.780 he did and now it actually gets tracked back to a number of other crimes that occurred in a spree that

04:16:23.260 had gone all the way across the us where muhammad was training malvo how to kill people right and

04:16:30.060 that's the category that we left out of the initial discussion but i said it was at least 20 people that

04:16:35.900 they shot um 13 we went through but there were at least seven more right in the month leading up to

04:16:42.060 the dc sniper spree as he was training this young teenager they met as i understand it in the caribbean

04:16:48.940 malvo's mother was not the greatest and somehow allowed yeah she allowed him to be just kind of turned

04:16:56.220 over to this guy and and and and muhammad started training him to kill and malvo went along with it

04:17:03.420 right well what what ended up happening was um it wouldn't be it wouldn't really come out to 11

04:17:09.740 years later when malvo spoke publicly and he did this to his great uh i don't know detriment because

04:17:18.540 speaking about this in jamaica which is a an extremely homophobic place to this day they consider if you

04:17:27.820 if you're a male and you're sexually victimized by a male they consider that homosexual activity

04:17:33.820 on the victim's part i mean it has nothing to do with the victim's sexuality has to do with

04:17:38.780 an older person taking taking advantage of a younger person but malvo came out and said that when muhammad

04:17:45.660 picked him up out of this shelter basically he was homeless his mother had abandoned him his mother

04:17:50.780 had abandoned him at several times already in his life uh before the time he reached 15 years of age

04:17:56.940 and his father was completely absent in his life um he he muhammad came in and said i'll be your father

04:18:04.940 figure uh you know i'll train you i'll i'll make you a man and he slowly was grooming him into this

04:18:11.660 sexual victimization and he was also training him to become a killer at first it was target practice and

04:18:20.380 then it evolved into human murder sick the the car can we talk about it because once you guys got

04:18:32.060 to look at the car things would become much more clear about how they were getting away with this

04:18:37.820 how they were approaching the can you talk about what the car told you yeah sure well first of all the

04:18:44.060 car was a very old caprice but one of these large oversized cars that would never make it today

04:18:50.780 because it's so big and and it's a gas guzzler what they did was they cut a little hole out in the back

04:18:58.620 by the license plate so that you could basically fold down the seats and lay inside and stick just

04:19:06.460 the point of the rifle out of the rifle barrel out of that hole and there was enough room for you to

04:19:12.780 see the sight to sight your target but you can also see how it would limit them from shooting very high

04:19:21.020 or very low because you have a very limited uh entrance where the the the gun barrel could be

04:19:30.460 protruding from so most of the sound of the shot is going to be contained within that trunk uh if they

04:19:38.060 weren't wearing headphones in there they would have blown their their eardrums out if they kept

04:19:43.820 firing that weapon in such a close space but we understand that a number of the shootings were done

04:19:49.420 by muhammad and some of them were quote training shots done by malvo wow they may have been the ones

04:19:57.980 that people survived because it's very difficult for us to think that that malvo at such a young age would

04:20:04.940 have been able to carry out the shootings that happened in the beginning and at least uh at least

04:20:10.140 in in one of the cases we know that that somebody saw malvo driving away uh from the scene that was

04:20:20.140 the uh spots of any more michaels and they also had he he's spoken about how he admits to killing people

04:20:27.340 himself but he also says he was the lookout he would make sure that there was no one in the line of

04:20:33.340 fire not not for that person's protection but just so that they didn't have that many witnesses and it

04:20:37.180 was a clear shot so one would scout and the other one would kill and they had done something with the

04:20:42.620 back seat to make it possible i guess to lie down you know from from the back seat straight into the

04:20:47.820 trunk so i assume on your belly you can you know be in shooting position yes absolutely and and but

04:20:54.460 what was even more disturbing than everything that had been that had come out was when we found out uh

04:21:02.620 that that muhammad's actual motive although he said what he was doing is training malvo to be a

04:21:10.540 killer and that he wanted to create a school for kids his age and he would train all of them and he'd form an

04:21:17.660 army to just take over and and and fight the oppression that that he grew up in and and that

04:21:25.420 kind of stuff that was all just garbage what it actually was was his wife had gotten custody of

04:21:31.420 their children he was pissed off and he was going to kill his wife so that he could then regain custody of

04:21:38.540 his children and what he did was he made this whole plan up so that he could kill a whole bunch of people

04:21:45.100 and then shoot his wife as part of this hoping that it would just be one seen as one of the random

04:21:53.660 victims and nobody would suspect him diabolical he would be awarded his children back here is muhammad's

04:22:01.020 ex-wife on how she found out uh that he was the suspect and and what she thought this sought three

04:22:08.700 the way i found out that it was john was when atf knocked on my door and said that they were

04:22:14.780 gonna name john as the sniper and so they asked me well do you think that he would do something

04:22:22.860 like this and i was like well i don't know yeah i said well why would you think that i said well

04:22:30.540 he said he could take a small city terrorize it they would think it would be a group of people and it

04:22:36.220 would only be me i mean i'm i wonder jim was did anybody ask her so when we had a sniper problem

04:22:46.460 on our hands did you ever think that could be my ex-husband i don't i think in general people when

04:22:53.740 things terrible things happen uh generally people in the community don't think it's going to happen to

04:22:59.340 them and we still feel like this distance i think in this particular case um you know i've spoken to

04:23:07.420 her personally about this um i think she was she was not at all especially the white van of it and and

04:23:15.900 all that all these distractions that were out there and and since he never he didn't specifically tell

04:23:23.180 her that he would be a sniper but he did say he could terrorize the town and and kill a bunch of

04:23:29.580 people and then kill her and everybody would think it would be all part of that same plan so so what i

04:23:34.700 really what about malville okay but i don't think she knew either i just i just i just wondered if you

04:23:39.820 know it occurred to her after that threat um how do you take a you know not well treated i guess not

04:23:46.460 well raised but not terrorist 15 year old boy and turn him into what he calls a monster malvo is

04:23:54.140 still sitting in prison i'll set it up with this soundbite from him um not long ago this is soundbite

04:24:01.100 six i mean i was a monster it is if i mean if you look up the definition i mean that's what a monster is

04:24:10.540 i was a ghoul i was a thief i i stole people's lives and i did i did someone else bidding just

04:24:19.260 because they said so i mean that is the definition of a monster

04:24:26.620 that was him speaking of the washington post in 2012 yeah i think what happened was a combination of

04:24:33.820 remember i talked about the genetics loading the gun personality psychology aiming it

04:24:40.380 and and the experiences pull the trigger i think in his case um because he was born um in in a

04:24:46.940 situation that was not only poverty stricken but you know he himself had been taken advantage of a

04:24:54.540 number of times and you know not just sexually with muhammad but other things that had happened to

04:25:00.620 him and he was basically booted from place to place and living on the streets scrapping for himself he

04:25:06.140 didn't feel connected to society at all and the fact that muhammad was sexually victimizing him

04:25:12.700 which is manipulating him and grooming him both as a sexual abuse victim and as a killer what he did

04:25:20.540 was the choice of weapon the separation between the shooters and the victims gave muhammad the ability to tell

04:25:31.180 to teach malvo that they're nobody you don't know them they don't know you there's no connection here

04:25:38.220 it's easy to do and i think just it was a perfect storm uh both the needs that this

04:25:45.260 kid had and he had to have the potentiality i mean i don't know how much anger and rage had built up

04:25:51.900 inside of him but certainly being victimized over and over again by muhammad and the same person that

04:25:58.860 you looked up to the same person that you thought of as a father figure because you didn't have one

04:26:04.140 this is what he was searching for in his life it was a really it was a deadly combination my god he

04:26:09.980 starts hurting you and he starts making you hurt others here's a little bit more of malvo recounting

04:26:16.940 how it was that muhammad took hold of him sought seven he gave me his time

04:26:21.820 his time his time that's the only thing we possess and where we invested tells what we value he gave me

04:26:30.220 his time he was consistent even though the consistency was madness he was consistent he gave me his time

04:26:42.780 wow his time muhammad's time ran out on november 10th 2009 when he was executed by lethal injection

04:26:51.660 he designed he declined to make a final statement he was 48 years old when he died he was 41 years old

04:26:58.380 at the time of his arrest um and the the courts and the legislatures the supreme court have gone

04:27:06.300 round and round on the younger of the pair on malvo because the supreme court well would eventually rule

04:27:13.100 that it is unconstitutional to uh in 2012 they ruled to get to pass down mandatory life sentences

04:27:20.060 without parole for juvenile offenders that it violates the eighth amendment prohibition on

04:27:25.020 cruel and unusual punishment and therefore what to do with malvo so he'd been tried in a couple of

04:27:31.740 different states and in virginia they did change the law to um to not allowing life without parole sentences

04:27:41.500 for juveniles so he can't have a life sentence without parole right you know there right now

04:27:48.060 but if he were paroled from virginia then he would have to begin serving his maryland sentence

04:27:54.860 and there's a question about whether he could ever get out or whether he would just be in jail

04:27:58.220 in perpetuity because one state after the other would start executing their sentences against him

04:28:02.380 i don't know you tell me because malvo's attorneys right now are seeking sentencing release or release

04:28:08.620 or release which seems that seems impossible to me well i don't know i'm not sure what's going to

04:28:16.140 happen i will say this i mean malvo was pretty messed up at the time of his arrest i've seen some of the

04:28:23.020 art that he produced when he was in his cell uh some of his statements at the time were very very

04:28:30.380 negative he had been really pushed over to the dark side i mean i'm not saying that he didn't make

04:28:35.740 choices but he made 15 year old choices um and sometimes that can be reversed uh when you hear

04:28:42.380 him speak today he says a lot of the right things he may one day be able to convince a parole board that

04:28:47.900 he's been rehabilitated whether that's true or not i don't know but i do think that the way at least the

04:28:55.260 way the law is right now if he does get released from virginia he will be serving time in in maryland

04:29:02.700 and i don't see that he that he'll be able to uh ever get out yeah i don't i think even our

04:29:10.780 current soft on crime policies don't go to the likes of the dc sniper uh understanding of the two he

04:29:17.740 was not the most culpable uh but you don't you can't kill and terrorize that many people and walk free

04:29:23.340 again he did get married in prison it always never ceases to amaze me never ceases to amaze me jem

04:29:28.860 these women who marry prisoners i don't know what you could do a whole profile on them i'm sure right

04:29:34.060 this this woman she started writing to him then she went in they said it was beautiful they were

04:29:40.460 allowed to hold hands the institution was very accommodating his state prison in virginia um

04:29:46.380 he's enriched her life as much as she has enriched his i mean i don't know what that says about her life

04:29:51.500 and uh one of his original trial attorneys comes out and says he's met the bride very impressive

04:29:56.780 young lady educated her eyes are wide open close in age to malvo who's now 37 and uh they are quote

04:30:04.620 soul mates according to the lawyer well i think there's there's a lot involved in that psychology

04:30:11.340 and it happens very often i mean it happened with ramirez here in california i mean they made him into a

04:30:16.860 rock star all these women were were literally throwing themselves at him it was really wait

04:30:22.380 which guy was that remind me uh rescindes no ramirez the night stalker here in california stalker

04:30:29.180 yeah he he he did he killed a lot of people he was very brutal he was very bloody it was

04:30:34.540 i mean some of the stuff i can't even recount that what he did but one of the problems is that i think

04:30:42.060 the women that typically will do this some of them are very religious and they feel like they

04:30:47.260 are they have a mission to save these people um others uh feel so insecure and insignificant in their

04:30:56.060 own life that they want some connection to something famous or even infamous and it's actually kind of

04:31:03.820 safe you can be next to a serial killer but be safe because that serial killer is in prison for the rest

04:31:12.700 of his life so you can maintain this connection have this um this this proximity to fame and yet not have

04:31:21.500 the risk so it's a very very strange psychology that that puts people in this place but as you said it

04:31:29.740 happens so often and so many of these killers who i like to forget the names of actually end up getting

04:31:38.060 married to to mainly women on the outside who who have this kind of complex yep it happened with uh with

04:31:46.220 uh eric menendez too somebody married him i just feel like these women who would spend their lives like

04:31:51.660 that when you know it's not like every man's a peach but at least the ones who you know you can actually

04:31:56.940 touch might be a more fruitful place to cast your your rod and reel um i don't i i don't have a lot

04:32:05.660 of sympathy i have to say i don't think that they should let this guy out of jail i will say that as

04:32:10.780 now the virginia law has been softened consistent with the u.s supreme court ruling uh they're now

04:32:15.900 looking at getting the sentencing release from maryland which would be next up to hold him and we're

04:32:21.900 told a decision in maryland could come this month on that so it's a very it's a timely discussion

04:32:27.740 we're having i don't think the odds are in his favor i mean maryland is pretty blue even virginia

04:32:33.180 is these days but not that blue and i gotta leave it on this note jim because you spent a lot of years

04:32:39.260 at the fbi i know your brother did too uh thoughts on the difference then and now the way we look at our

04:32:46.620 fbi the way america thinks about its fbi you know the partisan politics that have been on display out

04:32:52.140 of that organization over the past few years and i know you're retired now but how how you think about

04:32:58.140 it well i certainly still know a number of people who continue to work for the fbi and and and and we

04:33:04.700 have sort of a lift serve that that we correspond all the retired agents together and and to a man and

04:33:12.380 woman everybody's very upset with the image of the fbi now and and unfortunately some of the really

04:33:22.140 negative things i mean i think the most horrific thing that that came out against the fbi was was the

04:33:29.900 lack of involvement in the nasser investigation um but i think a lot of the political things that have

04:33:37.020 happened uh are happening way way way up here but the agents the street agents the the people who

04:33:43.980 dedicate their lives and careers and put their lives on the line not the administrators not the the

04:33:49.500 leaders of it but the people who put their lives on the line they have remained absolutely the same

04:33:57.340 throughout all of this and i hope and they will continue to and i think that's the saving grace grace for

04:34:02.460 the fbi you don't you don't become an fbi agent because you know you do it for the money you don't

04:34:09.180 become an fbi agent because you're you're lazy and and you can't find something else to do the fbi picks

04:34:15.660 and i'm not trying to be you know self-aggrandizing here i feel very lucky to have had the opportunity

04:34:21.660 to become an fbi agent and to work there for 22 years but the fbi picks people there are hundreds of

04:34:28.540 thousands of people who apply to the fbi and not that many get picked up every year maybe a thousand

04:34:36.060 every year and and the fact is there's only about 14 000 agents in the whole country and around the

04:34:42.300 world so it's a very picky job and it's very difficult to get in it's very difficult to maintain

04:34:48.460 your job there and part of that is the excellence that they demand from you and i think that that

04:34:55.180 excellence has not changed and it is what's going to save the image of the fbi uh because literally

04:35:02.140 the people who have who have laid down their lives for people in the fbi and and we lost quite a few

04:35:09.660 agents in the last few years some of them were first responders on 9 11 and got cancer and others

04:35:16.540 there were two agents that were killed in florida just executing a child sex crimes warrant search

04:35:22.860 warrant at a house and it's just it's a dangerous job and the people that do it are good people

04:35:29.820 unfortunately um i think when when law enforcement officers or agents get involved in politics or

04:35:38.380 political decisions it can never go right yeah it brings shame upon the whole organization to your

04:35:45.020 credit i should point out you obviously were an fbi supervisory special agent a profiler 22 years with

04:35:50.540 the fbi investigated all sorts of cases bankruptcies serial killers public corruption

04:35:55.980 sex crimes abductions homicides on it goes but there are only 25 profilers out of 14 000 fbi agents and

04:36:04.940 you were one of them very competitive so to your credit uh you had an amazing career with them and

04:36:10.540 continue and now speaking about these stories you have a production company xg productions we talked

04:36:15.420 about am i dating a serial killer which you can find on audible if you want to hear more about that

04:36:19.580 a different host but she gets into it and then another one called best case worst case that's on

04:36:24.940 spotify and apple and you're in that one and that seems to be kind of what what we're doing here

04:36:30.460 taking listeners behind police lines giving them unparalleled access to law enforcement looking back

04:36:35.660 at some of the most memorable cases that they were on uh sounds like you guys you've got a bunch of

04:36:40.300 episodes are they out now it sounds as we have over 300 episodes yeah that's amazing yeah and uh

04:36:47.740 basically francie hakes who's a former state and local and federal prosecutor uh she and i host best

04:36:54.220 case worst case we talked to cops and lawyers and related law enforcement professionals about their

04:37:01.020 careers and what's the best case and the worst case that they remember from their career and what that

04:37:06.620 does is it shows people what the the spectrum the continuum of the kinds of cases that law enforcement

04:37:13.260 has to live with and also the kinds of people that make up law enforcement there's there's what 17 000

04:37:20.620 law enforcement agencies in the united states over 500 000 uh officers and agents and and they're very

04:37:28.220 diverse group of people but only a few make the bad choices that make the headlines the rest of them

04:37:35.980 dedicate their lives literally put their lives on the line and and many of them lose their lives

04:37:41.180 over the course or get injured over the course of their careers but they are a good group of people

04:37:47.260 who are trying to do good and help people stay safe and stop crime um and that's uh that's a really

04:37:54.540 laudable thing and that's something of which the public needs to be reminded uh those of us on our

04:38:01.180 show uh have very close connections family family connections with law enforcement try to remember that

04:38:05.980 uh in all of this madness when the reporting hits that's dishonest and politically driven thank you

04:38:11.180 for your service and to be continued i will thank you for doing this i appreciate the opportunity to be

04:38:17.100 here wow what a story what a case thank you all for joining us today and all week you can find more

04:38:24.540 of our true crime content on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts for free and check us out on

04:38:30.940 youtube go over there and subscribe to our channel youtube.com slash megan kelly and we would appreciate

04:38:36.060 you smashing that like button and keep on coming back for more great content we appreciate it

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 01, 2026

Missing Plane MH370 Mystery, Horrifying Chris Watts Case, D.C. Sniper Saga - Megyn's ＂True Crime＂ Mega-Episode

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript