The Megyn Kelly Show - Nancy Guthrie and Daughter's Homes Searched Again, Plus NEW Ransom Details, with Brian Entin, Fitzgerald, Ayers, and O'Shea ｜ Ep. 1248

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00:01:00.680 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:12.380 Hey, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:15.640 Hopefully, you joined me and my family in switching the channel to the Turning Point USA halftime show last night.

00:01:22.660 We hope to get into those dueling performances later in the show.

00:01:26.520 But we begin today with the latest in the search for Nancy Guthrie, the 84-year-old mother of NBC News host Savannah Guthrie,

00:01:34.440 who authorities believe was forcibly removed from her home in Arizona a week and a day ago.

00:01:41.080 She was last seen Saturday, January 31st, which is nine days ago.

00:01:46.260 And given that we know she lives with a pacemaker and has limited mobility, the outlook does not, it doesn't look good.

00:01:53.900 I mean, her family said on day one that she has life-saving medication she needs, that she can't live without.

00:02:02.060 And that was, you know, last Monday.

00:02:04.760 And here we are now, nine days from the time she was last seen and eight days from the confirmed disappearance.

00:02:12.480 The latest from the Pima County Sheriff's Department on X, quote,

00:02:15.080 No suspects, persons of interest, or vehicles have been identified.

00:02:18.980 Not even a person of interest more than a week out.

00:02:20.880 Do we believe that? I don't.

00:02:23.060 Let's check in to see what Sheriff Chris Nanos was doing this weekend.

00:02:26.400 Was he looking for a person of interest or a suspect? Let's see.

00:02:30.660 Oh, it doesn't appear so.

00:02:31.800 This is a picture obtained by Fox News Digital showing Sheriff Nanos at Saturday's University of Arizona men's basketball game having a grand old time.

00:02:41.900 I'm sorry, but that is completely tone deaf.

00:02:44.680 I don't care that he needs to blow off steam.

00:02:48.480 You know what? You know who really needs a release from the stress of this past week?

00:02:52.640 Savannah Guthrie.

00:02:53.920 Yeah, she's somebody who's actually really suffering, and that's obvious.

00:02:58.200 She's not going to be able to go to a sports game to take her mind off of it.

00:03:01.860 Sheriff, because she needs you to do your job and to do it better before she can.

00:03:09.240 I don't know what's happening.

00:03:10.080 I'm praying, praying every day that this is like an Idaho situation, 0.99

00:03:13.160 where the police look like nincompoops while on camera, and behind the scenes, they're solving it.

00:03:19.280 I'm really praying that's what's happening, and very open-minded to that actually being the case.

00:03:24.140 I'm very relieved that the FBI is on scene and working with this sheriff, because just the sheriff's own on-camera mistakes have been plenty.

00:03:34.600 There have been plenty of them on very material matters.

00:03:37.720 And so I've grown to the point where I really don't know that we should trust his word.

00:03:43.780 And I also really do wonder how someone could be that tone deaf.

00:03:46.900 If you want to go blow off steam in the middle of a very stressful, busy, possible murder, possible kidnapping situation, you should have dinner with your family.

00:03:57.520 You should have friends over or go to somebody's house.

00:03:59.680 You should not go out in public and cheer on a sports game.

00:04:02.420 It looks insensitive, sir.

00:04:05.520 The Daily Mail reporting this morning that the sheriff's six-person homicide detective team handling the case lacks major case experience.

00:04:14.360 The investigator leading the probe reportedly has been working homicides for just two years.

00:04:18.840 The most experienced detective on the team has worked on murders for just three years.

00:04:24.100 FBI Director Cash Patel is reportedly traveling to Arizona today, but we're told it's a previously scheduled trip unrelated to the Guthrie case.

00:04:32.420 We do know that the FBI is on the case.

00:04:34.700 We saw Mr. Yankee co-hosting that presser last Thursday.

00:04:40.440 So let's hope one of or all of these law enforcement agencies figure out what exactly is going on there so that this family can have some relief.

00:04:50.460 We walk you through the developments over the weekend in this morning's AM update, which is definitely worth your time this morning.

00:04:55.980 But to quickly summarize, local Tucson station KOLD received another message purportedly from Ms. Guthrie's captors.

00:05:04.600 And another Tucson station called KGUN is reporting now that the original ransom note received last week demanded $1 million by last Thursday.

00:05:18.420 And the price went up to $6 million by 5 p.m.

00:05:23.020 This evening.

00:05:24.520 The threat, either implicit or explicit, no one's sharing exactly what else the note said, is that if they don't get this $6 million by 5 p.m.

00:05:34.780 tonight, Nancy Guthrie will be killed because their original note that had the $1 and $6 million demands, we are told, said she was okay, said they had her.

00:05:46.040 Now, there's still no confirmation that whoever is writing these messages has or has ever had possession of Nancy Guthrie.

00:05:55.760 None whatsoever.

00:05:57.320 There's been no proof of life or even captivity.

00:06:02.460 None.

00:06:03.900 Notwithstanding that, Savannah and her siblings, Annie and Cameron, did put out a new video Saturday night, which we now know was in response to the second note,

00:06:14.300 note the contents of which no one's really sharing.

00:06:17.320 I mean, it didn't go a lot.

00:06:19.060 The first one went to TMZ and two others.

00:06:23.260 The second note, which we know virtually nothing about, went only to the one station.

00:06:30.000 And it said virtually nothing.

00:06:32.300 I mean, not that it said virtually nothing.

00:06:34.700 We know virtually nothing about what it said other than it tried to convince the media and ultimately the Guthrie's that it was being written by the same person who wrote the first note, which was a ransom note.

00:06:48.420 We're told that note number two wasn't technically a ransom note.

00:06:51.640 But again, we know almost nothing else about it.

00:06:54.160 But we are now being told that this video I'm about to show you from the three siblings was a direct response to note number two.

00:07:03.120 Watch.

00:07:04.640 We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her.

00:07:10.840 This is the only way we will have peace.

00:07:14.420 This is very valuable to us and we will pay.

00:07:18.260 I think we cut off the first line of that where she said, we heard you and we understand in her note.

00:07:26.700 She made clear that they had received the second note.

00:07:31.200 Though, again, they're not sending these to the family.

00:07:33.200 They're sending them to the media.

00:07:35.120 We're going to break down what's to glean from that with our law enforcement analysts later in the show.

00:07:40.740 It's very interesting she used the word celebrate, celebrate with her.

00:07:44.040 I mean, I think any Christian knows that's, in this context, could very well be a reference to a celebration of life that you might have after someone has passed.

00:07:55.320 The whole tone of it sounded to me more like an acceptance that perhaps their mom is gone and that they will pay to receive her remains.

00:08:08.680 That's just my own take on it.

00:08:11.500 I could be totally wrong on that, but so we can celebrate with her.

00:08:15.700 I mean, it's such an odd word if they're really like, no one thinks that if Nancy Guthrie has returned, there's going to be a massive celebration.

00:08:22.280 We're going to celebrate.

00:08:22.980 I mean, like, that's clearly not what she meant.

00:08:24.680 But the graveness of her manner and that of her brother and sister, I mean, completely appropriately grave in that message, in their look, in their tone, in what they said, to me was telegraphing, we know she's no longer alive, but we want her back.

00:08:45.540 We want her remains.

00:08:46.760 We want to give her a proper burial.

00:08:48.340 We want to have a celebration of life.

00:08:49.840 That's how I read it, but we'll ask our experts in just a bit.

00:08:55.480 Over the weekend on Friday, there was a lot of activity in this case.

00:09:00.380 On Friday night, authorities took possession of Nancy's blue Subaru from her garage.

00:09:04.980 Very strange that it was still sitting in there.

00:09:06.820 It's like the FBI got on scene last, what, Tuesday, and started to say, have we done a thorough search for all the evidence?

00:09:15.940 Why is the victim's car still sitting in the garage?

00:09:19.000 Well, she didn't drive it. 1.00

00:09:20.480 Well, how do you know that?

00:09:21.960 Was she possibly stored in the car for some period of time when she was a captive?

00:09:27.620 Maybe they considered removing her from her garage with her own car. 0.97

00:09:31.560 Who knows?

00:09:32.620 I'm sure somebody got on scene and said, hmm, seems like something we might want to search for clues.

00:09:39.360 And now they have.

00:09:41.260 They've seized the car.

00:09:42.000 Investigators reportedly also investigating a nearby Circle K convenience store in relation to either a person or vehicle of interest.

00:09:51.720 Now, we had the locals, the workers at that Circle K speak to the media and say, yeah, the law enforcement came by here and they wanted to know about a person who came by here.

00:10:04.840 And we showed them a videotape and they took it.

00:10:07.460 I mean, again, the law enforcement is coming out saying there's no person of interest.

00:10:10.860 There's no vehicle of interest.

00:10:11.940 There's nothing.

00:10:12.340 Now, we know they're lying to us, OK, like they're lying or they're using those terms as terms of art, person of interest, vehicle of interest, suspect, like official suspect.

00:10:23.560 We know that's not true.

00:10:25.140 I mean, they are looking at various people and vehicles behind the scene.

00:10:29.200 They've impounded in evidence Annie Guthrie's vehicle.

00:10:33.640 Now Nancy Guthrie's vehicle.

00:10:35.680 And they're asking about a suspicious vehicle at the Circle K and seizing surveillance tape of it.

00:10:41.740 They're just not going to tell us.

00:10:42.920 So that's fine.

00:10:43.980 They got to play their game.

00:10:45.080 And I'm sorry, but the media is in a different game.

00:10:46.940 We're in the we get to the bottom of it and find truth game.

00:10:51.140 And I understand there.

00:10:52.940 They don't want to tell us everything.

00:10:54.200 That's fine.

00:10:54.620 That's how it is in every case.

00:10:56.580 Every case until they do want to use us.

00:10:59.260 And then they start leaking to us.

00:11:00.640 We're not at that stage yet.

00:11:01.980 Saturday, we saw that new Savannah tape that we just played for you.

00:11:06.380 Plus, the investigators were seen at Savannah's sister Annie's home until 10.30 p.m. local time.

00:11:12.160 Reports were that they spent some three hours inside the home.

00:11:16.160 Now, why would they go there in the evening when it's mostly dark?

00:11:19.820 I mean, it's all dark, 7.30 to 10.30 this time of year.

00:11:23.860 Rather than going during the day when it's easier to see, you're going to get caught by the press either way.

00:11:29.120 The press is camped out there.

00:11:30.600 They're not leaving.

00:11:31.980 Could be they just got a tip that evening.

00:11:35.060 But photography flashes could be seen by reporters who were outside the residence as they have been.

00:11:41.080 And law enforcement knew they'd be there.

00:11:43.700 Yesterday, we saw law enforcement conduct a grid search and look into what appeared to be a manhole near Nancy's home.

00:11:52.320 Like a large, like picture a manhole removed.

00:11:54.460 And then you just see this perfect circular opening into the earth.

00:11:59.460 And there's been some debate about whether it was a septic tank, although the man putting like materials down there wasn't wearing any sort of a hazmat outfit, which those who understand how this is done speculated meant this was not a septic tank because he wouldn't have been doing that without any sort of mask or gloves or protective gear on.

00:12:23.120 Given the nature of a septic tank.

00:12:25.520 So it could have just been a water tank.

00:12:27.460 They're not in the main sewage line, we are told, in this development.

00:12:31.520 So we're just not sure.

00:12:32.460 But he stuck some pipes down there and possibly a metal detector.

00:12:36.880 There's reports that he stuck a metal detector down there.

00:12:39.080 And all you can think about is the poor family because, I mean, it's like maybe he was looking for a weapon.

00:12:46.620 And, of course, one has to consider maybe he was looking for the victim.

00:12:53.180 And the family has to sit there at home.

00:12:56.240 I'm sure they're watching TV.

00:12:58.620 I mean, could you not?

00:12:59.940 If this were your loved one, could you not?

00:13:01.800 And having to hold your breath and wonder exactly what might be down there and what they were going to find, it appeared to be nothing, though that's unconfirmed.

00:13:15.100 But nothing was seen, you know, getting pulled out of that hole in the earth.

00:13:21.120 In a bit, we're going to bring in the best law enforcement analysts onto this show to walk us through the latest.

00:13:26.140 Plus, MK True Crime host Phil Holloway is on his way to the scene right now.

00:13:30.280 He will bring us exclusive reporting tomorrow.

00:13:32.580 But we begin with someone who has broken many of the details of this story, News Nation's Brian Enten, who's reporting live outside of Annie's home right now and was there the other night when law enforcement got there as well.

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00:14:57.020 Brian, welcome back.

00:14:58.300 Great to see you.

00:14:59.100 So can you set the scene for us on Saturday night and what happened at Annie's home?

00:15:04.480 Yeah, Megan.

00:15:05.180 It kind of came out of nowhere.

00:15:06.740 I was over at Nancy's house, which is about 10 minutes away, and I got a call.

00:15:09.980 Like, something's going down at Annie's house.

00:15:12.480 So I raced over here.

00:15:13.460 This is Annie's house behind me.

00:15:15.180 And when I got here, there were three deputies that had just arrived.

00:15:19.760 They have private security here.

00:15:21.560 NBC hired private security, I'm told.

00:15:24.120 And it seemed coordinated because the security guard just moved out of the way, let the three deputies in.

00:15:29.640 And they had blue gloves on.

00:15:31.880 They had some camera equipment that was in a case.

00:15:34.240 They went inside, and they were inside for three hours.

00:15:37.960 They closed all the blinds.

00:15:39.440 I could see them taking pictures.

00:15:40.900 Yeah, there you go, right, that's some of the stuff they brought out.

00:15:43.520 I could see them taking pictures in the garage.

00:15:46.880 You could see a flash from a camera, and then you could see them move throughout the house to other parts of the house

00:15:50.940 because you could see the flash from the camera coming from around the blinds.

00:15:56.420 And it took about three hours?

00:15:59.080 Yeah, they were inside for three hours, and then they packed up, and they left.

00:16:03.340 They didn't say a word.

00:16:04.760 And NBC is reporting today that it was consensual, that I guess it was worked out with the family,

00:16:09.840 that they were going to show up, which really doesn't surprise me because, again, it seemed like they knew they were coming.

00:16:16.040 The security guard moved out of the way.

00:16:17.580 They knew how to get into the house.

00:16:18.960 There's no one at the house right now, so they went in on their own, and it all seemed very coordinated.

00:16:24.860 Brian, where's the family?

00:16:26.060 It's a good question.

00:16:27.840 We don't know.

00:16:28.960 They were here.

00:16:29.760 Savannah was at this house early last week with her sister, her sister's husband, and Cameron was here also.

00:16:37.420 And this is where they filmed the first video because we saw them bring the ring light and the tripod in.

00:16:42.000 And somehow they left without anyone really noticing.

00:16:44.860 And it's interesting.

00:16:46.360 There were more security guards here specifically hired by NBC when Savannah was here.

00:16:51.380 There were three security guards.

00:16:53.260 And then when she left, now there's only one security guard just sort of keeping an eye on the house and telling people to stay back.

00:16:59.100 Well, it's interesting to watch NBC in the mornings on the Today Show to see what they're reporting on this case because there's no question in my mind it will have been blessed by Savannah.

00:17:10.380 There's zero doubt that they are asking her, are you comfortable with this?

00:17:15.420 Are you okay?

00:17:15.960 They would not want to upset her or report, get out ahead of their skis or go someplace where she didn't want it.

00:17:21.920 And they were the ones who broke the news that the search of Annie's home was consensual as opposed to, you know, via search warrant.

00:17:28.240 So to me, I'm deducing, though I can't confirm it as an independent fact, that she doesn't want it looking like her sister or anybody living in that home, like the brother-in-law, are in any way in trouble.

00:17:41.900 But that does not jive with Ashley Banfield's reporting about them considering Annie's husband, Tomas, and that he may, quote, be a, may be a prime suspect in this case.

00:17:58.640 Um, we're still investigating that too, Brian, uh, and whether the brother is coming under brother-in-law is coming under the scrutiny of law enforcement.

00:18:07.780 And all I can tell you is that I have reason to believe Ashley Banfield was onto something.

00:18:12.680 I don't know that he did this, but I do believe her reporting that they are taking a very serious look at him.

00:18:18.460 And, um, he's been out of the picture.

00:18:21.020 I mean, he has not been in any of the videos.

00:18:23.900 Has he been seen at all, Brian?

00:18:25.840 He hasn't been seen since, I think it was Tuesday of last week.

00:18:29.480 We got some photos of him outside the house here.

00:18:31.920 He's very recognizable with this big beard.

00:18:34.280 Um, and he was outside with his wife, Savannah's sister, Annie, and they were in the car together.

00:18:40.240 But it's been, it's now been almost a week.

00:18:42.240 And something else interesting, you mentioned how they, uh, went, the authorities went and, and retrieved the surveillance video from the gas station.

00:18:49.300 And that they were looking for someone that gas station is a circle K and it's right around the corner from Annie's house.

00:18:55.240 It's not close to Nancy's house.

00:18:56.980 It's right around the corner from Annie's house.

00:18:59.000 And it's, it's where it's positioned is where you would have to drive to go from Nancy's house to Annie's house, which I think is really interesting.

00:19:06.940 It's literally like one minute away from here.

00:19:10.100 Here's what I want to know.

00:19:11.140 Um, I want to know whether anybody's been asked to give and, or has given a polygraph, not a peep about that.

00:19:18.980 Is that correct?

00:19:19.680 No one's saying a word.

00:19:20.720 Not a word.

00:19:21.320 I interviewed yesterday, uh, a former homicide detective for Pima County, uh, who was there for 20 years and is now retired.

00:19:27.920 And it's interesting what you were reporting in the beginning of your show.

00:19:30.120 I mean, he says the same exact thing that, uh, there's been so much turnover there that it's a mess at the sheriff's office.

00:19:36.200 Uh, and that most of the homicide detectives have like two years experience.

00:19:40.180 And so he's concerned a lot of the veterans like him have left just because they've been upset with the, with the department for different reasons.

00:19:46.640 And there was a different sheriff and then another sheriff came back and it's, it's been a mess there.

00:19:50.760 Uh, but he was telling me that in his 20 years there, he never, they never once administered a polygraph.

00:19:56.600 That wasn't something that they did as a sheriff's office ever, not even once, but I know, but I don't know if now that the FBI is involved, you know, maybe they would be doing that.

00:20:07.680 Um, I don't know, because while, while they suggested it was a joint investigation at the Thursday presser, FBI, Pima County, um, my understanding is it's Pima County running herd on this, that it's their investigation, their running point.

00:20:22.240 And so that, that may tell us some, some unfortunate things.

00:20:27.140 Here's the other thing I want to know.

00:20:28.720 Um, the, the Sunday discovery that Nancy was missing, uh, allegedly came down to someone at her church noticing.

00:20:37.580 She wasn't there and calling the family, which then sent the family to Nancy's home, which led to the discovery of the crime scene.

00:20:44.240 However, it looked, they haven't really told us what was inside the home.

00:20:47.400 Um, the daily mail and you also, we talked about this last week reporting that Nancy Guthrie was actually attend.

00:20:53.640 It was no longer attending the church that they said she was.

00:20:58.140 And that in fact, she'd been going virtual for the past five years since COVID that she'd been, she'd been participating in the live stream that this church offers.

00:21:06.760 Um, leading us to ask, how would anybody have noticed that she wasn't on the live stream?

00:21:10.960 Because it's not like a, a zoom where you can see people joining.

00:21:15.500 Now we did actually try to join it this weekend and realize that there's a chat.

00:21:20.280 You can join a chat.

00:21:21.600 So it is possible that somebody was in the chat.

00:21:24.920 Look, maybe it's my own bias.

00:21:26.940 The thought of my, my mom, not only joining a live stream, who's 84, but actually then getting in the church chat during the mass and chatting.

00:21:34.820 Like it's, it's an impossibility, but maybe Nancy Guthrie is a lot more tech savvy than my 84 year old mom could be. 0.65

00:21:41.320 She had an Apple watch.

00:21:42.720 Um, so, so I want to know whether the investigators have tracked down the alleged parishioner who made the, who was purported to have made the phone call.

00:21:52.900 Brian, do we know whether that's happened?

00:21:54.660 It hasn't happened from what we know.

00:21:56.180 And that's been one of the strange things about this is we've all, me and then all of my other colleagues, we all talk about it out on the street.

00:22:02.680 We've all been trying to figure out this church element.

00:22:04.940 Everybody has been to the church.

00:22:06.540 Everybody has talked to the pastor and the pastor has said that she went to the church, but that she hasn't come back in person since, since COVID that she goes virtually.

00:22:14.820 And no one seems to know that she went to another church and the church over the weekend at their service, you know, the pastor talked about Nancy and it appears that's the church she goes to.

00:22:23.480 And what I thought was interesting, Megan, is at the last press conference, the sheriff never brought up the church again.

00:22:28.380 It's almost like he said that the first time right after this happened, but then no one ever talks about the church anymore.

00:22:34.600 So I don't know, you know, the sheriff made a lot of weird off the cuff remarks and mistakes.

00:22:39.240 Like, I don't know if that's just something he said initially.

00:22:42.680 And now there's another reason that the family was concerned that has nothing to do with the church.

00:22:48.040 I just don't know.

00:22:50.760 Here's what he said when asked.

00:22:52.280 The question was, have you interviewed the people that reported her, meaning Nancy, missing from the church?

00:22:58.460 And he responded, we're doing all kinds of interviews.

00:23:02.000 Yes, I'm sure we have.

00:23:04.600 Okay, which is not actually a yes.

00:23:07.840 That's not actually a yes at all.

00:23:09.120 It's actually kind of disconcerting.

00:23:11.160 And yet another thing that either they do need to do or they've done and he's just not telling us.

00:23:17.000 We don't know.

00:23:18.640 So, Brian, what about today?

00:23:20.420 The deadline now for this 5 p.m. $6 million payment is looming.

00:23:27.660 And the Savannah and siblings video from the other night said we will pay.

00:23:33.800 It said we will pay.

00:23:35.600 Yeah.

00:23:35.840 But they've had no proof of life.

00:23:38.000 They don't know whether these people actually have their mom.

00:23:41.820 And so do we believe that they're actually going to pay $6 million in Bitcoin?

00:23:47.380 Like, has any law enforcement spoken to this or shed any light on what the next step should be?

00:23:53.100 Yeah, I mean, they said, Savannah said they will pay.

00:23:55.280 Whether they end up doing it, we don't know.

00:23:57.920 And it's interesting.

00:23:58.420 You mentioned the local affiliate was reporting.

00:24:00.260 I think you said it was $1 million and $6 million.

00:24:02.400 That's a little different than what I've learned.

00:24:04.460 I learned it was $4 million and $6 million.

00:24:07.440 And $4 million was the first deadline on Thursday at 5 p.m.

00:24:12.600 And $6 million is the deadline today.

00:24:14.640 But that was in the first note.

00:24:16.820 And the second note, while we don't know exactly what it says, there are some indications that it, you know, based on what Savannah said in her video, the second note may have alluded to Nancy not being okay.

00:24:30.000 And that's why I'm hearing they're not calling it a ransom note.

00:24:35.520 They're just calling it a note.

00:24:37.160 And there was no demand for payment in the second note.

00:24:41.220 It was just a message to the family.

00:24:43.600 It wasn't like, and you can still pay this amount by this time.

00:24:46.760 So I don't, and also, is there a third note that we just don't know about?

00:24:51.220 But that's the other thing I've been wondering.

00:24:52.740 Maybe they're just not reporting on it yet.

00:24:54.320 And Savannah's video is responding to a third note.

00:24:57.560 I wonder the same because some of the messaging is so, like, controlled and calculated.

00:25:03.280 It almost seems like they're saying something.

00:25:05.900 They were, can we watch the Savannah video one more time?

00:25:08.740 Let's just watch it one more time.

00:25:11.220 We received your message and we understand.

00:25:17.940 We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her.

00:25:24.400 This is the only way we will have peace.

00:25:27.560 This is very valuable to us and we will pay.

00:25:31.600 So, first of all, it's incredibly grim.

00:25:36.240 They're all very grim-faced.

00:25:38.260 There's nothing about their expressions that telegraphs.

00:25:40.900 They've gotten any sort of hopeful news.

00:25:43.320 We understand.

00:25:44.480 She says, we understand in a sad, like, contemplative way.

00:25:48.240 We beg you.

00:25:49.360 She's begging them now.

00:25:51.340 Saying, give us our mother back so we can celebrate with her.

00:25:54.180 Again, that word celebrate sticks out like a sore thumb.

00:25:56.820 And it's the only way we'll have peace, which is another word associated with, I think, people who are, you know, grieving, having a settlement of the grief.

00:26:09.600 Even if it's a sad settlement, but just a settlement.

00:26:13.300 Like, you know what's happening and you can be at peace with it.

00:26:16.040 To me, that's what she was telegraphing.

00:26:17.700 But you're right.

00:26:18.420 We don't know what was in the note.

00:26:19.680 So, wait, but, Brian, the $4 million would make more sense to me than, four in six makes more sense to me than one in six.

00:26:27.080 Because I have to tell you, you know, I've had this conversation behind the scenes with a few different people.

00:26:32.760 Let's face it, a million dollars is not much for Savannah Guthrie. 0.81

00:26:36.220 She can lose that easily and not really even feel it.

00:26:41.020 So, like, if that were the initial demand, I think they would have just paid it.

00:26:46.200 They would have just paid it on Thursday.

00:26:48.320 Four million is a different, that's a different, I mean, that's a lot more.

00:26:51.940 Yeah, and I'm confident in my reporting, the person who I spoke to saw the note himself.

00:26:56.400 So, I'm sure it was four million and six million.

00:27:00.020 And I can't remember if I talked to you about this last time.

00:27:02.320 But the other thing that was in the first note that was so alarming to the FBI, there's two things.

00:27:08.120 One, the location of the Apple Watch inside Nancy's room was very, very specific.

00:27:14.820 And the other thing is they specifically referenced a damaged smashed floodlight in the backyard,

00:27:22.240 which has since been removed up on the back of Nancy's house, which is smashed.

00:27:26.100 So, those two things were spot on in the first note, which appears to be why they've been taking all of this so seriously.

00:27:34.580 But, Brian, don't you think, like, okay, so the floodlight is visible from the outside.

00:27:39.360 You know, people were crawling all over the property.

00:27:41.700 And especially, you know, Monday, I think the first notes came Tuesday.

00:27:45.360 So, you would have just had to see it on sometimes Sunday or Monday.

00:27:48.820 Or prior to that, you know, potentially you could have seen it prior to that if you were a contractor taking advantage of the family's pain here and you'd been inside the house.

00:27:56.100 You might know about that floodlight and you might know where she keeps her Apple Watch at night.

00:28:00.540 The thing that I can't get past is if I stole somebody and I needed to give proof of life so that I could get millions of dollars,

00:28:13.780 I would ask that person questions that only that person would know the answers to.

00:28:20.100 And I would put that information in my note.

00:28:22.480 Like, information above all would be proof of life.

00:28:26.800 Not where, like, who would say where she keeps the Apple Watch or that a floodlight had been damaged as their,

00:28:35.340 aha, it is I, I've got your person, proof.

00:28:40.240 Right.

00:28:40.640 Yeah, it's a good point.

00:28:41.700 You'd think there'd be something more specific.

00:28:43.440 You know, and they, and initially, you know, they really wanted to open these lines of communication.

00:28:47.940 But you'd imagine if there really is a kidnapper, they would be hesitant to do that because, you know, the FBI is trying to track.

00:28:54.320 And I don't know if you knew this, Megan, but we found out through the news director of KOLD,

00:28:58.900 which is where both notes went, that it wasn't submitted through, like, an email.

00:29:03.120 It came through a news tips form that you fill out on the website of, you know what I mean?

00:29:08.420 Like, you can fill out your name, subject.

00:29:09.960 Both, both notes or just the second one?

00:29:11.820 Both notes.

00:29:13.480 They went to KOLD at least.

00:29:15.200 I don't know if it's the same with TMZ.

00:29:16.720 So, it, I think that makes it harder to track.

00:29:19.700 And they used, you know, a scrambler for the IP address because it was different IP addresses both times.

00:29:25.720 So, if they, you know, I don't know that you can attach a picture that way.

00:29:31.480 I know, and I don't even think you need a picture though.

00:29:33.500 Like, if somebody had a relative of yours or anybody or mine or anybody listening,

00:29:41.420 we all know certain things they could ask the relative.

00:29:44.580 Like, if anybody who I know very well, a family member, needed to prove through a kidnapper that it was them,

00:29:51.660 that they were with the kidnapper, they absolutely could do it with information, with references, you know,

00:29:57.840 with, like, family jokes.

00:29:59.080 Like, it would be easy.

00:30:00.560 And so, just the fact that this person has gone with something so weird, like an outside floodlight,

00:30:08.420 and the location of an apple, what is that?

00:30:10.480 That proves to me you've been to the house.

00:30:12.580 And it looks like you've been in the house.

00:30:15.300 But that, think of the number of contractors an 84-year-old has going through her home.

00:30:20.400 You can do very little as an 84-year-old.

00:30:22.740 She probably has somebody help her change her light bulbs. 1.00

00:30:25.040 She definitely has somebody change her air filters. 1.00

00:30:27.040 Her air conditioner goes on the fritz, somebody comes in, the person who may have changed the roof recently, as the neighbor observed.

00:30:33.420 It's like the list is so long.

00:30:35.500 But now we're talking about somebody who's taking advantage of the family's pain and not necessarily the person who's causing it.

00:30:44.320 Or is all this just a sideshow, Megan?

00:30:46.680 I mean, I've been thinking about this all weekend.

00:30:48.480 You know, is all of this just something that the FBI has to look into and that Savannah and her family have to respond to because you put yourself in their shoes, you know, just in case, how could you not?

00:30:58.700 What if in the 1% chance it is true, you know, you want to respond, you want to try.

00:31:03.780 But is there a whole other side of this investigation happening that, like you mentioned at the beginning, we just don't know about?

00:31:10.440 I mean, I'm coming here to the house, you know, at 9 o'clock at night on a Saturday out of nowhere.

00:31:15.760 The only thing that I'm skeptical about that, though, is that it was these three sheriff's deputies who were just kind of like, I don't know.

00:31:23.760 I mean, I saw the raid at Nancy's house.

00:31:26.000 I shouldn't say raid, but I saw when the FBI team showed up, it was like insane.

00:31:29.080 I mean, it was a full-on FBI.

00:31:30.900 They're in their special outfits.

00:31:32.240 They're in the fancy vans and the evidence unit.

00:31:35.240 And the tape goes up and it felt so organized here on Saturday night.

00:31:40.140 It was just these three deputies.

00:31:41.660 I mean, I hate to say that, but their cars were a little beat up and they get out and they kind of wobble in.

00:31:47.740 Like, if this was so serious here, why didn't the FBI come here?

00:31:51.180 Like, there's just there's a lot I can't figure out.

00:31:55.940 And all we know, like from what you could tell from outside was that they were taking pictures on the inside, right?

00:32:01.240 Like, could you tell whether they were spraying chemicals or, you know, anything like that inside?

00:32:06.620 No, no.

00:32:07.220 And I've heard people say, you know, could it be luminol?

00:32:09.360 You know, they do that at night sometimes to, you know, so that they can use a blacklight and see if there's blood inside.

00:32:14.400 That could be one of the reasons they came at night.

00:32:16.940 Or maybe, like you said, they may have just gotten some piece of information and they said, let's go out there.

00:32:22.140 Or like what feels like the rest of this investigation, maybe they're just realizing, oh, God, we forgot to do this.

00:32:27.340 How have we not done this yet?

00:32:28.740 But let's let we got to go out and get pictures of the inside of the house just in case.

00:32:32.220 Just like they didn't tow Nancy's car until Friday night, which it's like, why wouldn't they have done that earlier in the week?

00:32:38.180 And I mentioned that former homicide detective I spoke to.

00:32:40.860 He's in shock.

00:32:41.600 He's like, how was all of this stuff not done within the first 48 hours?

00:32:46.980 Why are they going back and doing all these things days later?

00:32:49.760 And you mentioned the sheriff at the basketball game.

00:32:51.860 You know, that was around the time Savannah released this this second video.

00:32:56.200 So he's at the basketball game.

00:32:58.100 It's the same time, Megan.

00:32:59.700 He's at the basketball game as you see Savannah holding her siblings hands, you know, maybe saying that they think Nancy's dead.

00:33:09.000 Like, come on, dude.

00:33:10.060 Like, what are you doing?

00:33:11.180 You know, understand the optics.

00:33:13.820 We had two points I wanted to make.

00:33:14.920 Number one, the other possibility at the search in Annie's home, which was by consent, according to NBC, and only had the three guys in the beat up car show up to take pictures.

00:33:22.780 Is that that could be by design.

00:33:25.500 Because right now the family is giving them consent.

00:33:27.820 The family's working with them.

00:33:29.100 The sheriff said that earlier last week.

00:33:30.820 They're cooperating and we want that to continue.

00:33:32.640 Maybe it's we cannot show up FBI style and do this because we do not wish to telegraph to anybody in the family that they are anything other than victims in our eyes.

00:33:45.360 And we don't we certainly don't want to go in guns blazing with the full FBI treatment and telegraph that we think this may be a crime scene.

00:33:52.480 So we're going to keep it on the down low.

00:33:54.680 We're going to keep it casual so that they're not regretting giving us the consent.

00:33:59.220 It's a possibility.

00:34:00.320 Yeah.

00:34:00.460 Don't know.

00:34:01.060 Just speculating.

00:34:01.680 Secondly, on the four on the delays and that your your former law enforcement guy out of Pima County and his shock.

00:34:09.140 Right.

00:34:09.640 That's all I could think when they were when they were out looking in the, you know, whether it's a water tank, whatever they were looking at that with the manhole cover and the grid search renewing again and searching again in Nancy's home is.

00:34:23.500 Now, like now you're going to do that now.

00:34:26.240 So you did one day of searching.

00:34:27.920 They searched that last Sunday, a week ago into Monday and by Monday afternoon, they had called off the search.

00:34:35.000 The sheriff used that term saying maybe we'll resume it.

00:34:38.300 But they had called it off.

00:34:39.400 And I don't want to be too graphic, but like this is an area riddled with wildlife.

00:34:44.400 Like if they're looking for a dead body, it's been a long time.

00:34:50.660 Like this was a long time to wait to get really aggressive about searching for human remains.

00:34:55.960 Yeah, I wonder.

00:34:58.340 Look, we don't know.

00:34:59.780 Like you mentioned, Idaho, we found out later they knew a lot behind the scenes with Koberger that we that we didn't know.

00:35:05.520 And I was being hard on them every single day.

00:35:07.380 And then I went back and I said, oh, my gosh, I was wrong.

00:35:09.880 They were really, you know, working hard behind the scenes.

00:35:12.900 But is it possible here?

00:35:14.260 This is like almost cold right now.

00:35:15.940 Like, are they sitting in a room somewhere saying, what else can we do?

00:35:19.500 Like, we know we're hitting so many dead ends.

00:35:22.600 Oh, did we check the septic tank?

00:35:24.140 Oh, did we check the water tank?

00:35:25.780 Oh, let's go photo.

00:35:26.840 You know what I mean?

00:35:27.560 Like, I think that's a possibility, too.

00:35:29.580 I really do.

00:35:30.900 Same.

00:35:31.460 They could just be in a room like, what box have we not checked because we're screwed right now?

00:35:35.600 We're hitting dead ends.

00:35:36.580 But it does make you wonder whether they've seen something via an email, a cell phone record or something to suggest that Nancy wasn't kidnapped, that she was killed.

00:35:50.900 I think there was something in the second note.

00:35:53.060 I do.

00:35:53.680 I think I think the message, the reason they're being so careful not to call it a ransom note and it was a message.

00:35:58.720 I think there was something in that note that led Savannah to be very specific in her wording there.

00:36:08.580 So do you think, Brian, then that that I mean, like your gut, I know you don't know, but do you think that the notes are coming from the actual perpetrator?

00:36:17.360 I mean, that's I wish I knew.

00:36:19.040 That's the big question.

00:36:21.360 I'm still 50.

00:36:22.500 Everyone keeps asking me like my mom's texting me every morning.

00:36:24.740 I'm still 50 50, like on whether this is really a kidnapping, like I go back and forth because so much of it doesn't make sense.

00:36:34.220 But would they put Savannah through this?

00:36:37.480 Would they would they be make just the misery that she has to go through when she makes these videos? 1.00

00:36:42.600 And, you know, that they've got to be treating her with kid gloves and feel terrible for her.

00:36:46.320 Would they be putting her through that if if it wasn't legitimate, if they didn't believe it was a possibility?

00:36:52.680 Yeah, law enforcement.

00:36:53.500 I mean, but at the same time, if there is someone else involved and you go back to Banfield's reporting and I don't have any of that reporting, but if it is some kind of inside job or someone who knows the family, are they also treating it with kid gloves and saying we got to check every box here?

00:37:09.800 We're not rushing into this because this is Savannah Guthrie and we're about to like humiliate this person. 0.57

00:37:14.520 I mean, you know what I mean?

00:37:15.880 I mean, imagine you would feel suddenly it's someone in your orbit that is responsible.

00:37:20.040 So I do think because it's her, they're being very, very careful.

00:37:26.920 Brian Enten, you've been doing great work.

00:37:28.820 Highly recommend Brian's show.

00:37:30.500 Just Google it in the podcast, Brian Enten, E-N-T-I-N, and you'll find it or YouTube.

00:37:34.540 I watch them both ways and I love all your content, my friend.

00:37:37.400 Thank you for being on.

00:37:38.200 Thanks, Megan.

00:37:38.640 Thank you for being on.

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00:39:20.580 When your kids head out for the night, we know that their safety is important to you.

00:39:29.280 It's important to us too.

00:39:32.240 Toyota, for what matters most.

00:39:35.000 As we've been reporting, it is very difficult to obtain information from authorities in this case who are still claiming there is not even a person of interest.

00:39:46.980 But one thing that's clear is the Guthrie family believes there is at least a chance the ransom notes are from Nancy's captor or captors.

00:39:57.420 There's no other explanation for the three Instagram videos from Savannah's account where the siblings ask for further communication about how to get their mother home.

00:40:06.520 To help us analyze all this, we wanted to bring in a seasoned hostage negotiator.

00:40:10.780 And it's hard to find someone with more experience than our next guest.

00:40:13.480 Commander Daniel O'Shea is a retired Navy SEAL who served as the coordinator of the hostage working group for the U.S. Embassy in Iraq from 2004 to 06.

00:40:24.140 O'Shea managed more than 400 hostage incidents in his time in Iraq.

00:40:28.780 And by the time he left, kidnappings had dropped to the single digits.

00:40:34.000 Dan, welcome to the show.

00:40:35.500 It's my pleasure and honor to be here, Megan.

00:40:36.940 Okay, so we're going to play it one more time, the latest video, and get your take on what, if anything, you think has changed here.

00:40:45.020 Here it is.

00:40:45.460 This is released on Saturday night.

00:40:49.940 We received your message and we understand.

00:40:54.740 We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her.

00:41:00.200 This is the only way we will have peace.

00:41:04.540 This is very valuable to us.

00:41:07.140 And we will pay.

00:41:10.580 What do you make of it, Dan?

00:41:11.940 It's heartbreaking.

00:41:12.660 You know, I saw hundreds of these pleas from families from all over the world to try and bring their loved one home that was taken hostage by the likes of al-Qaeda and other jihadist groups in Iraq.

00:41:24.800 So it's troubling because it's the pain in English of not knowing.

00:41:30.380 And, you know, it brings back a lot of flashback of a lot of memories.

00:41:34.980 And but you can never give up hope.

00:41:37.480 We had cases where there was a deadline set.

00:41:39.440 Presumably, we know this this group harmed, you know, Miss Guthrie in the initial abduction because there was blood left at the scene.

00:41:48.000 And we only know what blood was left outside.

00:41:50.040 We don't know anything about what's done been done forensically inside the house.

00:41:53.980 So that's that's my biggest concern is that the propensity for violence from the get go is why everyone should be very concerned.

00:42:01.160 And not so much because of the deadline, but because that the group's doing this has already shown they're willing to be violent with an 84 year old woman.

00:42:09.440 Grandmother as well.

00:42:11.140 So, I mean, the big one of the big questions here is, are the people torturing the family with these notes the same people that have or hurt Nancy Guthrie eight and a half days ago?

00:42:23.480 I was saying to Brian Enten in the first segment, Dan, I just have a really hard time believing the people writing these notes were involved in Nancy's kidnapping or whatever happened to her, because I was saying that if I had Nancy Guthrie, if I were if I went to the trouble to kidnap somebody and then wanted to prove to somebody that I had her, I would not be referencing some damaged floodlight or where her Apple watch was in her home. 0.97

00:42:49.760 That's that's bullshit. That's the kind of stuff you manage to see through a window. 0.75

00:42:54.880 And to me, it sounds like you're trying to sound like, you know, more than you do.

00:42:59.700 If you've got Nancy, you can ask her anything, anything that would prove to her three children, you know, better than anybody that you actually have her.

00:43:10.160 You don't have to do a picture. You don't need a video.

00:43:12.680 You just need her to tell you things only the children and the mother would remember from their childhoods.

00:43:20.000 A hundred percent. And that's I you're not you're you're not a H&R, K&R background or hostage negotiator.

00:43:27.280 But I had that suspicion. What do we from almost day one when the first ransom note came out?

00:43:31.920 First off, they sent the ransom note to TMZ, a tabloid network, and then the local news media.

00:43:37.800 All right. That's not how can our kidnap for ransom works.

00:43:41.100 If kidnapping is a business around the world and the groups that do the kidnapping, they have the prize.

00:43:45.840 They grab the prize and they want to keep that prize protected.

00:43:48.980 And they want to demonstrate to the prospective buyer, payer that we have who you're looking for.

00:43:54.900 Let's start the negotiation. And you come out with a large number, that four million initial to six million, the latest ransom.

00:44:01.680 And then that's not outside the norm range for an American because that's you know, this is a big business.

00:44:07.040 And because obviously Savannah, Savannah Gunther, you know, big news network, morning show host, she's going to have the resources to probably come up with that kind of money. 0.99

00:44:15.660 And that's what they're counting on. But then you've got to negotiate in good faith.

00:44:19.000 And from no way, shape or form has the group that is claiming to hold her been operating in good faith and the fact that they haven't been able to provide a substantive proof of life or even trying to submit some AI version of it, which could have been, you know, suspect that they're trying to do this.

00:44:34.460 But I, I am suspect that the group that has her is the group, the group that took her response for abduction is the group that is sending these messages.

00:44:43.100 They may be related, but I really think this is part of the show and drama to drive up this new news media story.

00:44:49.340 And why is that happening? Let's go to the underlying motives.

00:44:52.860 And the motives may not be money. And I don't think it's money they want here.

00:44:56.060 I think they want the news media attention, focus on this case to maybe get some of the news stories off off the net and then go.

00:45:02.960 Why did they target, you know, Samantha Gunthry?

00:45:06.420 And you have to look at, well, she's not a controversial figure like yourself or say a can of someone where you have people on the left or right.

00:45:12.060 I mean, just being honest that you've got enemies, you've got people that don't like you.

00:45:16.540 But, you know, Samantha, Savannah Gunthry is, you know, I don't watch your morning show, but I know who she is.

00:45:21.400 And she's like a very nice lady. And, you know, what's the most controversial thing she's ever done?

00:45:26.880 Maybe some of her interviews in the past.

00:45:28.440 Well, I mean, she's no, she's not controversial, but that that doesn't rule out some freak stalker who just interpreted some report she did as an attack or as some sort of, you know, that that element is still alive and well around her.

00:45:42.660 And we can't rule that out, that it's some stranger who's obsessed with her.

00:45:46.140 Oh, of course, of course. But then why are you going after the mother unless you're trying to hurt her?

00:45:51.320 So who has a reason to want to hurt Savannah Gunthry? Wouldn't it be a lot? The list would not be long.

00:45:56.000 But go to some of her interviews. And I'm not trying to I'm not the one coming up with this.

00:46:00.360 This conversation I've had, you know, with virtually everyone I've talked to, especially offline, when you don't have a two minute set, you know, segment on a news channel.

00:46:08.600 So she interviewed a lot of the Epstein victims, in-depth interviews with Virginia Gouffet and some of the other women.

00:46:16.160 And what came out a week before the this abduction days before the Epstein files all over the news?

00:46:23.460 And now what is taken over the news media? And maybe that was done intentionally.

00:46:26.200 I'm not saying that's the case, but there's more to this group.

00:46:30.740 I do not think it's a traditional kidnap for ransom.

00:46:33.280 They're not demonstrating any of the things that are normally associated with people that are in the kidnapping business.

00:46:38.600 To make money. And I think it's a media attention.

00:46:41.840 But you have to go into it that there are evil people out there that will do terrible things to one of the human beings.

00:46:48.280 I doubt that, you know, we had a woman in Iraq. Her name was Margaret Asan.

00:46:52.120 She was the director of Care International.

00:46:55.000 She was a five foot one, 180 pound Irish woman who'd lived in Iraq for 20 plus years and married a local. 0.94

00:47:01.700 She she lived the fourth people of Islam, which is our cot. 0.97

00:47:05.180 She gave alms to the poor. She fed the poor.

00:47:07.340 She was a there we go, a beloved woman.

00:47:10.680 And that did not protect her.

00:47:12.760 She she was murdered by by her. 1.00

00:47:15.480 Actors, and I'm one of the few Americans that sadly had had to watch that execution video.

00:47:19.660 And it was it was very troubling, very sad.

00:47:21.780 So there's evil in the world.

00:47:23.620 And no matter how good you are, that doesn't protect you from someone that wants to hurt you.

00:47:27.160 So if you are advising this family at this point and we are told that the second note did not contain proof of life, that they're revealing very little about it, but we are told it did not contain proof of life.

00:47:38.540 And we know the first letter said they had Nancy and claimed she was alive, I believe, but did not have proof of life.

00:47:45.560 You saw the video from the family begging for such proof after they received the first note.

00:47:49.720 Would you advise them to pay?

00:47:51.940 Because right now it's the day of the deadline, 5 p.m.

00:47:55.120 tonight.

00:47:56.020 And TMZ is just reporting that the Bitcoin account allegedly set up to accept these funds is empty as of this time this morning.

00:48:06.220 It's unclear how long it typically takes accounts to update they write.

00:48:09.440 But as of now, the confirmed balance in the publicly viewable account stands at zero with no transactions recorded.

00:48:15.460 So at least as of almost 1 p.m.

00:48:17.600 Eastern time, the family has not made any deposits into the Bitcoin account.

00:48:21.800 How would you advise them?

00:48:23.600 Well, this is just very harsh.

00:48:25.020 And, you know, it's only come from experience because I think that someone evil enough to hurt an 84 year old woman makes me lean.

00:48:33.660 OK, my initial thoughts, again, a week ago was a cartel involved in this because the close, you know, proximity to the Arizona, the Mexican border.

00:48:41.180 The fact that I know the cartels have no problem with kidnapping.

00:48:44.360 They're beyond al-Qaeda.

00:48:46.440 They're probably the biggest kidnapping ring out there.

00:48:48.340 You know, formerly the FARC had that title.

00:48:50.880 So was that a connection to the FARC?

00:48:52.920 Excuse me, to the cartels, because they have a propensity to violence.

00:48:55.740 They have kidnapped young social media influencers in Mexico and murdered them.

00:49:00.120 So they're not above above the thought.

00:49:02.280 But I again, I always started with the notion, especially when I would talk to the ambassadors from these countries where they had hostages.

00:49:10.080 I would always be up front with them and say, sir, you have to begin with the presumption that your citizens that have been kidnapped by this group claiming to be affiliated with al-Qaeda or whoever, that they're not coming home.

00:49:23.040 You have to start with that presumption.

00:49:24.300 And the fact that this group has not shown proof of life, and I really think the media is what they're going for.

00:49:31.860 So we had deadlines come and go without al-Qaeda.

00:49:34.580 Jill Carroll, the young Christian science reporter, 28-year-old girl, American girl, she had deadlines come and go.

00:49:41.220 And she was ended up brought home after 83 days of captivity because of pressure put on by special forces, you know, the unit that went out every night to hunt for her.

00:49:51.000 And she was brought home safely because the unit, the kidnapping ring finally said, threw their hands up and said, maybe if we give her up, these bad dudes will stop coming after us.

00:50:01.040 And that's ultimately what happened.

00:50:02.540 So the family, I would strongly recommend to not pay the ransom, not pay any of it, because I don't think, I think that'd be money going into the wind for nothing.

00:50:13.520 Because I don't trust, there's no trust and good faith between this group and the family.

00:50:20.700 And they've shown none of it.

00:50:21.940 And they're just torturing Savannah and her family.

00:50:24.320 And I would be blunt enough to speak to the family that let's start with the presumption that your mother did not survive the initial abduction.

00:50:32.800 And this may have been a home invasion that went wrong, may have been a stalker, as you said, to do the same.

00:50:38.580 But I would recommend strongly against paying the ransom today by that deadline.

00:50:44.040 What an agonizing decision to have to make at their most vulnerable and weakest.

00:50:51.360 Of course, you'd be at your weakest right now.

00:50:53.340 You're not at your strongest mentally or emotionally in the wake of this tragedy.

00:50:57.560 It's awful.

00:50:58.760 Dan, thank you for your expertise and for your service, too.

00:51:01.820 Thank you.

00:51:03.140 Up next, Jim Fitzgerald is back along with Chad Ayers.

00:51:05.940 And a lot to go over with them.

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00:52:18.160 Back with me again this week to discuss the latest on the Nancy Guthrie case,

00:52:25.320 former SWAT team leader Chad Ayers and former FBI supervisory special agent Jim Fitzgerald,

00:52:31.160 co-host of the Cold Red podcast.

00:52:35.000 Welcome back, gentlemen.

00:52:36.280 Let's start with what President Trump said on Air Force One on Friday.

00:52:41.600 Here it is.

00:52:42.080 Mr. President, you promised Savannah Guthrie's family the full support of federal law enforcement.

00:52:48.200 FBI is now closed.

00:52:49.240 I'll give you a little statement.

00:52:50.640 I think we're doing very well on that regard.

00:52:53.400 You're probably surprised to hear that.

00:52:55.940 I think we're doing very well.

00:52:57.700 Very well, meaning we have some clues, I think, that are very strong.

00:53:02.080 And I think we could have some answers coming up fairly soon.

00:53:06.400 Nationwide search.

00:53:07.200 Is this a search going to Mexico?

00:53:08.800 I'm not talking about a search.

00:53:09.620 I'm talking about a solution.

00:53:12.200 We have some things, I think, that will maybe come out reasonably soon from DOJ or FBI or whoever

00:53:20.380 that could be, yeah, could be definitive.

00:53:26.200 Yes.

00:53:26.520 A lot has taken place in the last couple of hours.

00:53:29.200 A lot of things have happened with regard to that horrible situation in the last couple of hours.

00:53:37.280 Okay.

00:53:38.340 A lot in there.

00:53:40.120 We're doing very well.

00:53:41.920 We have clues that are very strong.

00:53:45.180 We could have answers very soon.

00:53:47.860 I'm not talking about a search.

00:53:49.620 I'm talking about a solution.

00:53:51.420 We have things that may come out that could be definitive.

00:53:56.540 Is there a suspect?

00:53:57.860 And he quickly says, yeah.

00:53:59.520 It's almost as an aside.

00:54:01.000 He says, yeah, things that could be definitive.

00:54:02.940 And then he mentions FBI and DOJ.

00:54:06.140 So let's get right to it, Jim.

00:54:08.020 What does that mean?

00:54:08.920 What did you take away from that?

00:54:11.200 Yeah, I'm racking my brain, Megan, if I've ever worked a case in which the president directly

00:54:16.420 involved himself.

00:54:17.760 And there's some big ones I worked.

00:54:20.660 And the D.C. sniper and anthrax all happening in the D.C. area.

00:54:23.600 But I don't remember direct.

00:54:25.440 And where sort of promises are made.

00:54:28.300 I won't call them promises.

00:54:29.960 Look, I think President Trump's heart is in the right place.

00:54:35.120 The Guthrie family wants to hear something positive.

00:54:38.400 But you've got to be careful with creating too high of expectations.

00:54:42.760 And I guess that was Friday from what you said.

00:54:44.960 So we're looking at now 72 hours since he made that statement.

00:54:49.960 There may be some investigators not happy he made that statement.

00:54:52.840 But, you know, he said it was definitive or things definitive could happen.

00:54:57.080 Yet he was sort of vague at the same time.

00:54:59.280 So is he sometimes investigators, you can actually plan sort of leaks, if you will, to sort of

00:55:07.820 force the hand of a bad guy, whoever they are.

00:55:11.700 I mean, usually it's someone holding someone in custody.

00:55:14.020 Someone's presently in danger.

00:55:16.420 I can't imagine someone reaching out to the president.

00:55:19.120 Hey, could you drop these lines for us?

00:55:20.600 But no doubt he's in touch with Kash Patel and Bondi.

00:55:24.240 They're in touch with the people in the field, on the street there.

00:55:28.140 And he's echoing something.

00:55:31.060 He wants to give the nation something positive to think about.

00:55:34.600 And I'm not saying he's lying.

00:55:37.380 He's not at all.

00:55:38.080 There may be things that have been developing, but it's a slow burn here.

00:55:41.400 And everyone wants to make everything right.

00:55:43.240 I don't think President Trump was lying at all.

00:55:44.240 I think President Trump was telling the truth.

00:55:46.460 I think President Trump was excited that he thought we were about to have a breakthrough on this case.

00:55:51.640 And I don't think his people would have told him that if it weren't true.

00:55:55.240 And he's the one who mentioned FBI and DOJ.

00:55:59.220 So it could have been either one or both.

00:56:02.760 You know, it could have been.

00:56:03.560 Obviously, we know the FBI is there on the ground and co-hosted the presser that happened on Thursday.

00:56:08.280 But they answered to the DOJ.

00:56:10.260 They're all their work.

00:56:11.200 If it comes to something, would ultimately be coming to something for the DOJ to potentially do something about it.

00:56:16.700 So they could be equally informed.

00:56:18.660 So who knows?

00:56:19.940 But I don't think for one second, Chad, that President Trump would have said that if he hadn't been briefed in a way that was promising and that he was feeling like we're getting there.

00:56:28.980 The thing that I found most interesting was if I were Savannah Guthrie and I heard that, I would pick up the phone in a second and call him.

00:56:35.760 He called her last week to tell her whatever you need.

00:56:38.020 And I'd say, what do you have?

00:56:39.980 And then President Trump's in a tough spot because maybe he's not ready to reveal that yet, no matter who it is.

00:56:46.980 And now you're talking to the victim of the crime.

00:56:48.960 I don't know.

00:56:49.480 But what did you glean from it, Chad?

00:56:51.780 You know, Megan, I agree absolutely with what Jim just said.

00:56:54.620 I will say this.

00:56:55.720 Look, I am a huge supporter of our president.

00:56:58.260 I'm a huge supporter of Kash Patel and what the attorney general has been doing.

00:57:02.220 But I've got to, you know, we do know that President Trump loves to talk to the media.

00:57:08.120 He loves to speak and throw things out there.

00:57:10.220 But I agree with what Jim said.

00:57:12.360 I agree with what you said.

00:57:13.700 He is in constant contact.

00:57:15.940 This is such a high profile case.

00:57:17.580 He is in constant contact with Kash Patel and the boots on the ground.

00:57:22.980 The American people are heavily invested in this case right now.

00:57:25.740 So I think that possibly, you know, he had information coming in.

00:57:33.280 He says in the future, you know, something real soon we're going to hear.

00:57:37.860 I don't know.

00:57:38.620 I think we have to sit back and wait.

00:57:40.280 But he did.

00:57:41.060 You know, President Trump loves to kind of tease people.

00:57:43.280 Could have answers very soon.

00:57:44.300 Correct.

00:57:44.900 Could have answers very soon.

00:57:46.420 Not talking about a search, talking about a solution.

00:57:49.200 And by the way, remember, Chad, how we found out that they had arrested the guy they said

00:57:57.880 did the pipe bombing?

00:57:59.300 He was on Fox and Friends for a different hit, a hit about something else.

00:58:04.620 And he was like, hey, by the way, we caught the pipe bomb.

00:58:09.300 It was like, what?

00:58:11.180 The man has a way about how he does things.

00:58:13.880 And that's what makes him who he is.

00:58:15.640 Megan, can I add here?

00:58:19.100 There is a term, both you and Chad are probably familiar with it, called tickle the wire.

00:58:24.080 And when you're working at wiretap, a Title III, as we call it in the feds, there's a way

00:58:28.860 that you're listening.

00:58:29.640 And, of course, you have to minimize at certain times that they're talking about, you know,

00:58:32.640 the wives cookie recipes or something as opposed to crime.

00:58:37.460 So what the agents would do, though, and what I was part of, is you do something.

00:58:42.220 You have a police car go by the suspect's house.

00:58:45.980 They're involved in something.

00:58:47.040 It's not necessarily a kidnapping like this, but they're involved in some kind of bad deeds.

00:58:50.500 And you have that where you have, you know, someone knock on the door kind of suspiciously

00:58:54.600 or a letter goes to the house.

00:58:56.260 And then you're waiting to see what they say on the phone when this event happens that

00:58:59.900 you, the investigator, stage.

00:59:01.500 And the nickname for it is tickle the wire.

00:59:03.360 Well, OK.

00:59:05.100 Do we have a version of that in which the president is serving as the tickle the wire force?

00:59:11.360 Because I will tell you something.

00:59:12.780 He's the tickler.

00:59:13.460 He's the tickler.

00:59:14.560 I don't know if he's been called that before.

00:59:16.440 But I'll tell you what.

00:59:17.800 Whoever is involved in this, again, we go back to leave for revenge, for profit.

00:59:23.120 Now they're conflated somehow.

00:59:25.120 We're completely separate.

00:59:27.200 Whoever was involved in doing this, one, probably more people who are involved, they may have

00:59:33.380 altered their behavior Friday morning and did something.

00:59:35.620 And if maybe the investigators on the ground, the boots on the ground, as Chad said, they

00:59:39.900 didn't plan for President Trump to make this statement.

00:59:42.460 But if nothing else, they should have taken advantage of it.

00:59:44.960 And let's see who's moving.

00:59:46.220 Who is someone even very low on the suspect list we have?

00:59:49.540 Who's made a quick call?

00:59:50.720 If we're watching them, we're monitoring their phones.

00:59:52.340 Who's called someone else?

00:59:53.620 And maybe, hey, did you hear what the president said?

00:59:55.680 In whatever language, potentially.

00:59:57.400 And that could be a clue that the investigators weren't even necessarily looking for or that,

01:00:03.880 you know, initiated themselves.

01:00:05.800 But then something happened afterwards.

01:00:07.640 So it's a known tactic in law enforcement, completely legal, this tickle the wire concept.

01:00:13.800 Usually the wire, of course, is the wiretap of a phone line, cell phone landlines, whatever.

01:00:21.180 Also emails.

01:00:22.360 And that could something that could then happen.

01:00:23.780 The other thing I have to say is I was excited when I heard that because I thought, OK, they've

01:00:30.140 got somebody.

01:00:30.840 They think they know who did it.

01:00:33.500 But then it occurred to me, having listened to it now many times, he could have been talking

01:00:37.720 about the ransom letter writer.

01:00:42.000 It could be not the suspect in the kidnapping or the harming of Nancy Guthrie.

01:00:47.660 It could be they've got the person who's writing the notes.

01:00:50.760 Let's listen to it one more time.

01:00:51.760 I mean, just think, tell me what you think about that possibility, because solving that

01:00:57.960 is important, but it might not lead us to the kidnapper.

01:01:01.120 It might be two totally different people.

01:01:02.660 So just listen to Trump again.

01:01:04.920 You promised Savannah Guthrie's family the full support of federal law enforcement.

01:01:09.500 FBI is now closed.

01:01:10.740 I'll give you a little statement.

01:01:11.920 I think we're doing very well.

01:01:13.740 On that regard, you're probably surprised to hear that.

01:01:16.920 I think we're doing very well, very well, meaning we have some clues, I think, that are very

01:01:22.300 strong.

01:01:23.260 And I think we could have some answers coming up fairly soon.

01:01:27.220 Is this the nationwide search?

01:01:28.640 Is this a search going to Mexico?

01:01:30.140 I'm not talking about a search.

01:01:30.940 I'm talking about a solution.

01:01:32.080 We have some things, I think, that will maybe come out reasonably soon from DOJ or FBI or

01:01:41.380 whoever that could be definitive.

01:01:47.520 A lot's taken place in the last couple of hours.

01:01:50.920 A lot of things have happened with regard to that horrible situation in the last couple of hours.

01:01:57.200 Right?

01:01:59.540 So, Chad, I don't know.

01:02:02.020 It could be either one.

01:02:02.980 Megan, let's briefly breach this topic with Jim.

01:02:07.440 The word solution, right?

01:02:10.180 It's not we have a discovery.

01:02:12.340 We have a solution.

01:02:14.740 Hear me out for a second.

01:02:16.740 NBC, right?

01:02:18.120 Obviously, Savannah is one of the highest paid news personalities there is for NBC.

01:02:24.360 I looked that up this morning.

01:02:25.480 Last week was the opening ceremonies.

01:02:28.960 NBC is hosting opening ceremonies at the Olympics.

01:02:31.880 They also were the ones that hosted Super Bowl last night.

01:02:36.040 All these viewerships.

01:02:37.580 So, if this is a solution, could this, again, we have talked about this, but could this be

01:02:44.000 some type of international crime group that's trying to, and I'm not saying that NBC is involved

01:02:50.760 at all.

01:02:51.460 I want to make sure that is clear.

01:02:52.800 Could this be some type of international crime group that is, you know, trying to disrupt

01:02:59.420 everything that's going on?

01:03:03.500 I mean, there's a totally different angle on this, you know, that could be more than just

01:03:09.760 the son-in-law or just a random maintenance worker.

01:03:13.420 Again, everything's out on the, you know, there's nothing that's not on the table right now.

01:03:17.560 Chad, did you see the one report saying that reportedly the money that was requested in

01:03:24.420 ransom note number one said, now we're being told, $4 million if you pay by Thursday, $6 million if you pay

01:03:31.760 by Monday, USD in U.S. dollars, which has some saying, why, that doesn't sound like an American.

01:03:40.480 Like, when we communicate money figures to one another, we don't say USD.

01:03:44.580 No.

01:03:44.920 We just say, you put the dollar sign and then you put the numeral and then you put million

01:03:49.840 or a thousand or whatever your, you know, unit of money is.

01:03:54.160 So that, that could be some small support for this being international and President Trump possibly,

01:03:59.600 you know, casting a very wide, wide web and getting, getting some sort of a ring in this.

01:04:06.600 Because look, it would, the thing about that that's attractive is those are the ones who do

01:04:11.140 kidnappings.

01:04:11.900 Sure.

01:04:12.260 You know, it's not an American thing from all of our experts.

01:04:14.920 It's just not something that Americans do.

01:04:18.360 But it is something that they do in Latin America.

01:04:22.000 100%.

01:04:22.360 And I think that's why nothing's off the table.

01:04:24.520 And, you know, he didn't first say that we could hear something from the Pima County Sheriff's

01:04:30.940 office.

01:04:31.120 He says, we could hear something soon coming from the DOJ or the FBI.

01:04:35.440 Well, and let's face it, what are the, there is zero chance that that Pima County Sheriff

01:04:40.260 is calling President Trump with updates.

01:04:42.600 Zero.

01:04:43.260 Like, there's just no way that's what's happening.

01:04:46.140 Trump gets his information from his cabinet secretaries and his own chiefs, people like

01:04:50.600 Cash, people like Pam.

01:04:52.320 Those, those would be the ones who would have the information.

01:04:55.320 Though I really, I am told that the FBI is in more of a helping role in this case and that

01:05:02.540 it is the Pima County Sheriff who is running herd on this.

01:05:05.480 As I say that, this just broke via NBC.

01:05:08.240 And again, you really have to take the NBC news information seriously here because trust

01:05:14.460 me when I tell you they would not want to get out ahead on anything if it hadn't been

01:05:18.620 like blessed by Savannah or if they thought it was going to do anything to compromise the

01:05:22.000 investigation.

01:05:22.440 They report, the FBI said it has deployed additional intelligence and agent personnel from its Phoenix

01:05:28.740 office and other FBI field offices now to assist in the investigation.

01:05:32.660 The agency is also staffing a 24-hour command post with agents who investigate incoming leads

01:05:38.580 and tips.

01:05:39.660 Members of the Cellular Analysis Survey Team, or CAST, are assisting and continue to collect

01:05:45.620 and process digital data as detectives review and analyze information from various sources,

01:05:50.140 including banks and social media.

01:05:51.300 All right, Jim, I have a question for you about that last piece, the Cellular Analysis

01:05:55.520 Survey Team.

01:05:56.360 So cell phones are everything.

01:05:57.920 They've got, they know everything about us, these devices.

01:06:01.400 They know where we've been.

01:06:02.500 They know who we've talked to.

01:06:03.940 They know what we've thought.

01:06:05.460 And it did occur to me, since we spent time on the brother-in-law last week, that if you

01:06:13.540 proceed under the theory that the brother-in-law may have been behind this and also is sending

01:06:21.200 the ransom notes, that would be near impossible.

01:06:25.360 Like the heat on that guy right now and all last week is at a fire level.

01:06:32.020 So there's no way he's sneaking off to the library to fire off these forms on the local

01:06:40.820 news stations.

01:06:41.640 And by the way, we're told TMZ also has one of those, like a tip line where you can go

01:06:46.340 and maybe that's why the person chose TMZ, not because they watch TMZ, but it also has

01:06:50.660 one of those forms where you can put on, oh, here's a tip, TMZ.

01:06:53.260 It's Megyn Kelly.

01:06:54.320 Here's my address or my phone number.

01:06:55.860 And my tip is whatever.

01:06:57.260 Um, so there's zero chance this guy was doing that last week.

01:07:02.080 Now he might've had an accomplice if he was behind this.

01:07:04.480 And of course, then there's the other theory we've been actively working on, which is the

01:07:08.580 two are unrelated.

01:07:09.460 Whoever took her or hurt her has nothing to do with these notes.

01:07:12.920 It's an opportunist as you put it, Jim.

01:07:14.720 But do you agree with my premise that if we're, if we're pursuing the line of the brother or

01:07:19.260 any one of the family, there is zero chance that person was in a position to send ransom

01:07:23.460 notes last week.

01:07:24.180 Uh, Megan, as we discussed a few times last week, whenever a profiler and a behaviorist

01:07:30.140 looks at a crime series of crimes, you look at pre-offense behavior, of course, the crime

01:07:33.700 itself, post-offense behavior.

01:07:35.560 It's one thing trying to determine, uh, what an unknown subject unsub, as we said in the

01:07:40.400 bureau is, uh, is doing post-offense behavior, changing their disguise, leaving the scene,

01:07:45.820 sometimes injecting themselves into a crime, uh, a crime scene, calling in false tips or certainly

01:07:51.640 following the media.

01:07:52.420 But if you have someone who is within those concentric circles, I'm not going to call the

01:07:57.380 brother Mo a suspect, but he is someone, of course, that is being looked at.

01:08:01.040 It would be, you said, zero chance.

01:08:03.340 I would say virtually impossible, maybe less than zero that he's out there putting these,

01:08:08.760 uh, uh, ransom demand, uh, uh, email communications, whatever they are multiple ones.

01:08:14.620 Now, uh, in, in that regard, there's no way he's doing that.

01:08:18.540 Look, whoever this may be, and it was a revenge thing that, well, it was for profit to begin

01:08:24.720 with.

01:08:25.140 Maybe they're doing that.

01:08:26.200 Now it was a revenge thing.

01:08:27.660 And as I said, last week, laying out all the options, perhaps it's someone, well, let

01:08:31.580 me cover up my tracks by doing this.

01:08:33.600 I don't really want the money, but let's let the FBI and the sheriff department chase

01:08:37.020 after these people.

01:08:37.940 So, uh, there are multiple avenues here and all we would have needed was the, the kidnap

01:08:42.720 note, like other kidnappings that we discussed already this week from Norway to Frank Sinatra

01:08:47.320 Jr.

01:08:47.680 and the Bronx and whatever, just something that we proved that was proven that the kidnappers

01:08:53.080 are the same people who abducted Mrs. Guthrie.

01:08:56.780 We just don't have that so far.

01:08:58.600 And, uh, and for the brother, he's, I don't, uh, brother-in-law, whatever we want to call

01:09:03.700 him, Tommaso, uh, he has to, you know, he has to be in the suspect pool.

01:09:08.220 Everyone does in that close concentric circle, but I would find it, he, he is, he's the equivalent

01:09:13.560 of a criminal mastermind and Hedini if he can, in fact, you know, send off these emails with

01:09:18.720 no one else even knowing that, uh, in law enforcement, not to mention his family.

01:09:23.440 Go ahead, Chad.

01:09:24.800 Megan, you obviously have, uh, you have more of a personal relationship.

01:09:27.740 You obviously know Savannah at better than any, well, you have a different type of relationship

01:09:33.720 with her than we do.

01:09:35.380 It would, I spent a lot of time with her personal and professional.

01:09:39.060 It would be very hard.

01:09:40.420 We know that the bureau and the sheriff's office has likely separated these parties to

01:09:44.620 conduct their interviews with all family members.

01:09:47.520 I find it very hard with the last video that was released and them holding hands and all

01:09:52.840 this thing.

01:09:53.480 We've got her brother who was a fighter pilot.

01:09:55.520 I would find it very hard to think that two people, if they had any inclination that their

01:10:02.140 sister and brother-in-law were involved in this case, that they would be able to put on 0.98

01:10:06.480 some bullshit face, you know, and act like nothing's wrong. 0.98

01:10:10.960 And we're a, you know, a close family. 0.99

01:10:13.140 And, and that if they really believe that the, the in-laws are involved.

01:10:16.240 Let me ask you this, Chad, I agree.

01:10:17.460 I don't think Savannah suspects her sister at all.

01:10:20.620 And I haven't heard anybody report anything about the sister being involved in this in

01:10:25.660 any way, other than she's married to the brother-in-law and that report we know of originating

01:10:30.420 with Ashley Banfield.

01:10:31.300 So yes, I agree with you, but there's been a lot of activity at the sister's home at

01:10:35.360 Annie's home.

01:10:36.080 Now they, there was a search earlier this week.

01:10:38.500 Then there was a search Saturday night that NBC news again, was sure to report this morning

01:10:43.520 was by consent, meaning Annie and presumably Tomas, the homeowners gave consent, but we also

01:10:51.040 haven't seen Tomas.

01:10:52.620 And so I'm, I don't want to presume without knowing that he's still in good standing with

01:10:59.160 the family.

01:10:59.460 We have no idea whether he is like, it is a possibility that even Andy is saying, oh

01:11:03.720 my God, why do they keep searching our house?

01:11:06.820 You know, is it possible that Tomas was involved?

01:11:09.000 I doubt it.

01:11:09.680 I don't like, I'm just saying the fact that they're sitting there holding hands.

01:11:12.880 I agree.

01:11:14.100 There is no chance Savannah suspects her sister of anything, nor has anybody been able to

01:11:18.300 accuse her sister of anything.

01:11:19.900 However, it doesn't really tell us anything about the brother-in-law, Chad.

01:11:23.160 Yeah.

01:11:23.400 It just, it would be very confusing and it would be raised a lot of eyebrows if all of a sudden

01:11:28.600 Tomas was involved, all this Bitcoin gets delivered or cryptocurrency, whatever it is,

01:11:36.240 gets to him.

01:11:36.780 And all of a sudden, you know, next year, there's a lot of family vacations to Turks and

01:11:41.700 Caicos and a new Lambo sitting in Europe.

01:11:43.520 That's how they catch you.

01:11:44.200 Right.

01:11:44.540 Like you're done.

01:11:46.080 You're done.

01:11:46.800 They can't trace the Bitcoin.

01:11:48.120 But eventually when you get the Bitcoin, you have to, you have to cash it in.

01:11:51.940 At some point.

01:11:52.560 If you want to enjoy it.

01:11:53.740 And that's how they get you because they have like a small circle of suspects.

01:11:57.100 And, you know, you may think you can outweigh the feds, but they can outweigh you.

01:12:01.420 And, you know, five years from now, you suddenly have $6 million you didn't have.

01:12:06.380 And, you know, you have some working class job.

01:12:09.400 You're in trouble.

01:12:10.140 Um, but here's the thing, Jim, they keep going back to Annie's and Tomas's home and

01:12:17.840 they went back at night.

01:12:19.600 And yes, it was low key.

01:12:21.460 It was three guys and beat up cars.

01:12:23.520 It wasn't the full force of the FBI with the gloves and the, you know, the command, you

01:12:29.060 know, the way the FBI can burst in.

01:12:31.240 I know how the FBI can burst in because my neighbor in my old building got the FBI treatment

01:12:36.560 at 5 a.m. one day when they arrested him for allegedly being a mini Madoff.

01:12:41.020 And then I had the misfortune of riding the elevator up with him when he bailed out.

01:12:45.840 And I had heard it was all over the news.

01:12:47.560 We were in the elevator together and I didn't know what to say to him.

01:12:50.040 So he's sitting there with his lawyer going back up to his apartment and I'm sitting there

01:12:53.600 going back up to my apartment and I came up with the following. 1.00

01:12:57.020 Don't let the bastards get you down. 1.00

01:12:59.800 What am I saying? 1.00

01:13:01.400 I don't know whether it was you who said that.

01:13:04.460 I'm kidding.

01:13:05.120 I wasn't there.

01:13:05.660 It was so, no, it's very awkward.

01:13:08.520 I'm like, I'm not good in these situations.

01:13:10.520 I don't find the right words.

01:13:12.120 Okay.

01:13:12.300 But my point is simply, um, we, we don't know why they keep going back to Annie and

01:13:19.900 Tomas's house.

01:13:20.540 And this is where I wanted, I've been all weekend.

01:13:22.520 I've been wanting to ask you guys about this because I really thought we made some progress

01:13:25.720 on Friday when we really were analyzing the timeline that had been given the day before

01:13:29.580 came up with, it was a 40 minute, 41 minute time stint that we think the perpetrator was in

01:13:34.040 the house, if you go from one 47, when they disconnected the nest cameras to two 28, when

01:13:39.580 her pacemaker stopped communicating with the iPhone that was in her house, 41 minutes.

01:13:45.840 And we spent a lot of time on how, why does it take 41 minutes to cat to kidnap an 84 year

01:13:50.600 old woman? 0.93

01:13:51.000 And is it possible that they, that they killed her, that, that, that that's what happened

01:13:54.520 in that 41 minute stint.

01:13:55.800 But then we got to the point where we just did not think that could be the case because

01:13:59.320 the pacemaker, the pacemaker would have shown the cardiac event ending her life if it happened 0.99

01:14:07.620 prior to two 28 AM.

01:14:09.400 So that pacemaker is really everything.

01:14:11.240 But then over the weekend, I got to thinking, how much do we really know about the pacemaker?

01:14:17.380 Like, is it possible guys that, because like, all we know is that she got far enough away

01:14:23.140 from the iPhone that it stopped recording events.

01:14:26.620 But like, is it possible the police know there, there was something catastrophic that happened

01:14:32.420 on that pacemaker prior to two 28, they haven't told us anything about her heart or anything

01:14:39.160 about the pacemaker, except that it disconnected from the iPhone at two 28 AM.

01:14:46.240 Now they, they then launched this big thing where they said, we think she's still alive.

01:14:51.260 And so they, they could be lying to us, but is it because what my takeaway watching all

01:14:57.420 these searches was they think she might've been killed at Annie's house.

01:15:00.600 That that's one of the possibilities.

01:15:02.480 Why are they going over there for three hours, taking pictures in the night, lighting it up

01:15:05.980 with something?

01:15:06.520 I don't know.

01:15:06.840 Well, again, this is second time back there when we have been told the crime scene is that

01:15:11.640 is at Nancy's house.

01:15:13.140 So they keep going back to Annie's house where she had dinner that night.

01:15:16.380 And so what is the actual proof that the mother was delivered back to her home at nine

01:15:22.480 forty seven with the garage door closing two minutes later that night?

01:15:27.860 Like, what is the proof that that actually was Nancy, Nancy Guthrie getting delivered back

01:15:32.900 into her garage and what is the proof that there was nothing on the pacemaker, you know,

01:15:38.400 from any point in the evening up to two twenty eight AM?

01:15:43.480 Yeah.

01:15:43.700 Proving a negative is always a tough task for in any situation, much less criminal investigation.

01:15:50.480 And I guess you're right.

01:15:53.240 I mean, especially with the way the sheriff changed his his his his explanation of we know

01:16:00.060 she was dropped off at whatever it was, nine forty seven.

01:16:03.260 And then we know, oh, the family said they dropped her off at this time.

01:16:07.440 And we're only going on that eyewitness account from the family members, one or more.

01:16:12.740 Again, it's not clear purposely, probably so.

01:16:15.560 But maybe on the part of of even the family without speculating there.

01:16:20.320 But there's a lot of questions.

01:16:21.800 The pacemaker part and the the irregular activity that would show.

01:16:27.400 So it I mean, they do show and I've worked cases in recent past more as a consultant than

01:16:35.740 in the FBI, especially people, these these Apple watches that are hooked up to it, you

01:16:41.780 know, same principle you can actually see when a person dies and it makes a medical examiner's

01:16:46.200 job much easier than just looking at undigested food and issues like that.

01:16:50.540 And it certainly can add to it.

01:16:52.140 So why, though, would the fact that they think she died at one house or the other, Megan,

01:16:57.840 and then the family is making these pleas to bring her back?

01:17:01.480 It's just it's just it's just so confusing on my part in that regard.

01:17:06.000 I agree.

01:17:06.500 So this is this is where I went.

01:17:10.160 If you if you trust in the pacemaker and you trust in the fact that the police aren't

01:17:13.040 going to be doing this wild goose chase, knowing that the pacemaker showed she died, you

01:17:16.700 know, earlier in the evening, if they think she died, you know, at eight thirty or nine

01:17:20.900 o'clock, then that would explain the search at Annie's house perfectly.

01:17:25.020 Right.

01:17:25.220 Because she was at Annie's house at that time.

01:17:26.860 But that's not what they're saying.

01:17:28.080 They're saying she went back home there.

01:17:31.280 They are engaging in the goose chase.

01:17:32.940 So presumably it's not wild.

01:17:34.480 And they do believe she was alive when she left the house at 228 a.m.

01:17:37.820 So what are they doing at Annie's house?

01:17:39.300 Why are they back at Annie's and Tomas's for three hours taking pictures, Chad?

01:17:44.440 Is it well, think about checking out their shoes, their boots?

01:17:50.320 Why is it?

01:17:50.900 Why is it that Nancy Ubered to the house for dinner but didn't Uber back? 1.00

01:17:57.260 They're saying they drove her back because if she Ubered back, we would have a definite 0.99

01:18:01.680 interview from whatever that Uber driver was and saying, no, I dropped her off.

01:18:06.420 Like you said, we're solely going off of the family saying we drove her back and we dropped

01:18:11.220 her off because we had the doorbell or the, you know, let's be honest, nobody's going

01:18:15.100 to remember the exact time they're basing it off this, you know, the garage door activation.

01:18:20.060 Garage door.

01:18:20.280 So is it not odd if mom Ubered over for dinner, but we drove her back?

01:18:28.040 So and then they mentioned that they were there playing games as a family.

01:18:31.840 That tells me that and they said with the grandkids.

01:18:34.380 So we know there's multiple.

01:18:35.700 I would find it very hard that you would commit a homicide in front of your own children

01:18:40.360 of their grandmother if they, in fact, were there.

01:18:43.020 And again, the pacemaker would presumably show that her life ended well prior to 2.30 or 2.28

01:18:52.320 in the morning.

01:18:52.880 But that suggests to me that then it was things inside the house that may be evidentiary.

01:18:58.780 So what are they?

01:19:00.220 I mean, are they looking for clothing that maybe reflects mud or time in a water tank?

01:19:07.820 Are they looking for boots and whatever mud may be on?

01:19:12.660 Like, what would they be photographing?

01:19:15.200 And they did remove some evidence.

01:19:17.520 They came out with bags.

01:19:19.280 And by the way, they came out wearing blue gloves.

01:19:21.260 Does that tell you anything?

01:19:22.120 I don't know if like the standard FBI is like a clear glove and the blue glove is something

01:19:26.960 you're going to deal with chemicals.

01:19:27.900 I have no idea.

01:19:28.480 But they were wearing gloves.

01:19:30.140 So obviously they were trying to protect at least against their fingerprints getting all

01:19:33.200 over this place.

01:19:34.040 And to me, it seems, Jim, that they were treating it as a potential crime scene.

01:19:40.400 Everything and every place associated with Nancy Guthrie right now has to be considered

01:19:47.040 a potential crime scene.

01:19:48.560 There are multiple crimes.

01:19:49.580 Whenever this thing is resolved, we hope it is.

01:19:52.000 Obviously, inside the house by the front door is a crime scene of Mrs. Guthrie.

01:19:56.140 And then the vehicle that was used to transport her, we're thinking it was a vehicle of some

01:20:03.460 sort.

01:20:04.140 And then if she was being held somewhere or put into a place in the ground or under cover,

01:20:10.860 that's yet a third crime scene.

01:20:13.420 Sometimes people go out and move remains.

01:20:15.600 That could be then a fourth crime scene.

01:20:17.440 So they're going to look at.

01:20:18.260 So now we're not looking outside at this point.

01:20:20.460 Now we're back at Annie's house and her husband's house.

01:20:24.220 They feel they have some basic information that they just want to tie some loose ends

01:20:30.060 and they are doing it.

01:20:31.460 And Megan, you brought up on Friday or so when I said they really need to get into some more

01:20:35.340 intense interviews, perhaps polygraphs.

01:20:37.320 Well, they don't want them to lawyer up.

01:20:38.760 So that would explain why I get that part of you always have to walk that thin line.

01:20:43.180 You don't want to press it too hard.

01:20:44.580 So they don't lawyer up.

01:20:45.760 It has to be custodial interview within their house.

01:20:47.660 Of course, Miranda doesn't apply there. 0.99

01:20:49.820 They're not in custody.

01:20:50.540 So they can do it a lot lower key, some friendly type people.

01:20:54.140 Hey, just a few more questions.

01:20:55.680 We all remember the famous Columbo show.

01:20:59.440 One more question as he's walking out the door.

01:21:02.000 But they would do this.

01:21:02.660 That was the one that would get you.

01:21:03.460 That's right.

01:21:03.900 But they would do this, not so much walk out the door, but coming in the second time.

01:21:07.320 It would be interesting to know whether they're announced visits or they're set up in advance

01:21:11.180 there.

01:21:12.820 Megan, either.

01:21:13.300 We're told it was consensual.

01:21:14.980 That's all we know.

01:21:15.360 Well, yeah.

01:21:15.720 Yeah, but whether they whether the whether the knock on the door was agreed to in the

01:21:20.420 past, you know, an hour or two before or something else.

01:21:23.940 Megan, I like.

01:21:24.400 Well, I don't think they were there.

01:21:25.280 I think I think they've moved to a hotel.

01:21:26.920 Keep going.

01:21:28.480 Whether we do it right now or another segment.

01:21:30.540 I talked to one of the last kid kidnappings ever that occurred in the US.

01:21:35.120 One of the last was that Sidney Riso kidnapping back in 92.

01:21:39.740 And one of the agents now long retired, but he walked me through some of the things about

01:21:43.900 that case.

01:21:44.460 And I think from context perspective, it's very important to look at that case and others

01:21:50.620 and how that and how that played out.

01:21:53.440 And because on the fourth day, it turns out that Mr. Riso died.

01:21:57.960 And yet the husband and wife couple so happens a husband, a wife.

01:22:02.420 He was former law enforcement.

01:22:04.660 They kept up the facade for like 54 days or so that they were alive trying to get the

01:22:10.360 money and the amount they wanted, by the way, six million dollars today and where NBC may

01:22:15.780 put some of it up, even not just Savannah.

01:22:18.260 They wanted those kidnappers wanted and Exxon was willing to pay 18 and a half million dollars

01:22:24.180 back in 1992 for the kidnapping, legitimate kidnapping of their executive, in which on

01:22:30.180 the first day, a letter came in the mail to, I think, the local police with the Exxon credit

01:22:35.420 card of Mr. Riso in there.

01:22:37.680 So those kidnappers really played to that.

01:22:40.140 Well, his newspaper was delivered every day when people used to get newspapers.

01:22:43.220 But the kidnappers went out that morning and pulled the newspaper down to the bottom of

01:22:47.080 the driveway.

01:22:47.980 Pretty big house, maybe something like where Mrs. Guthrie lived. 0.99

01:22:51.180 So he had to walk farther down the driveway to get the newspaper.

01:22:55.320 And that way they could jump out, the husband and wife, and grab him, throw him in the back

01:22:59.660 of the van. 0.79

01:23:00.200 They had to shoot him in the arm to get him under control there.

01:23:03.480 Then he goes and dies four days later because he had a bad heart.

01:23:06.200 But they kept that hidden.

01:23:07.560 He wound up his body found in the Vine Barrens of New Jersey 54 days later.

01:23:11.860 It was a bunch of calls.

01:23:12.720 But they were communicating the whole time.

01:23:14.680 And the point is, it's a very bad situation with that kidnapping.

01:23:19.400 And I hate to use the word legitimate, but it was an actual slash legitimate, real for-profit

01:23:24.620 stranger kidnapping.

01:23:26.040 All those qualifiers we had to put in there back in 92.

01:23:29.260 And that's how these guys worked it.

01:23:31.660 A lot of miscommunications between the kidnappers and Exxon.

01:23:35.860 And so who knows what's been missing in this particular case in terms of communications.

01:23:41.800 Technology is a little better now.

01:23:43.100 But that was just one bizarre case.

01:23:44.660 We were talking about in the first hour, where, you know, where is the obvious communication

01:23:52.220 about facts only Nancy would know?

01:23:55.220 They haven't done it.

01:23:57.860 And they haven't done it for a reason.

01:23:59.700 And now the second demand doesn't seem to renew the money demand.

01:24:05.640 That was only in the first demand.

01:24:07.300 But the Bitcoin address stands.

01:24:10.220 They haven't changed that.

01:24:11.360 There's been no deposit in it.

01:24:12.720 And Jim, you're the linguist.

01:24:14.140 Listen to the Savannah video with the siblings.

01:24:18.600 It's a shift.

01:24:19.840 I mean, they sounded very grim in their first two videos.

01:24:23.600 Don't get me wrong.

01:24:24.520 But there's definitely a shift tonally.

01:24:26.720 The first one was like, she's got grandchildren.

01:24:28.660 They cover her in kisses.

01:24:30.340 She's spunky. 1.00

01:24:31.580 She's fun. 0.93

01:24:32.600 You know, mama, we're looking for you.

01:24:34.420 The whole world is looking for you, mommy.

01:24:36.300 And then this.

01:24:37.600 Here it is again.

01:24:38.180 We received your message and we understand.

01:24:45.060 We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her.

01:24:51.240 This is the only way we will have peace.

01:24:54.820 This is very valuable to us.

01:24:57.400 And we will pay.

01:24:58.720 A lot in there, Jim.

01:25:02.220 You've got so that we can celebrate with her.

01:25:06.100 Also, now they're begging.

01:25:07.720 We beg you to return our mother.

01:25:10.960 And then the, this is the only way we will have peace.

01:25:15.480 This is very valuable to us.

01:25:18.260 And we will pay.

01:25:19.500 The peace is very valuable to us.

01:25:22.460 And we will pay the return her so that we can celebrate with her.

01:25:28.680 What does that mean to you?

01:25:30.440 Yeah, there's a lot in there.

01:25:31.900 I much prefer to be analyzing the communications from the alleged kidnappers.

01:25:37.400 But, but, but we'll stick with this for now.

01:25:39.780 Because we don't have any access to that.

01:25:41.900 Yeah, it almost sounds like, and Chad knows this very well.

01:25:45.380 We've both been there.

01:25:46.500 When your investigation of some sort of a missing person,

01:25:49.320 it could even be a boat accident or something.

01:25:51.080 It goes from rescue to recovery.

01:25:54.260 And it almost sounds like the family members have morphed into that category.

01:26:01.900 Why they felt they wanted to put a message out.

01:26:05.040 Because they want to celebrate that.

01:26:07.520 Not in the way we look at celebration with a birthday party or surprise party.

01:26:12.300 Saying goodbye, perhaps.

01:26:13.880 A celebration of life is a very common term nowadays.

01:26:17.580 And perhaps that's what they're seeing.

01:26:18.900 Just tell us where she is.

01:26:21.080 We'll pay you this sum, whatever.

01:26:23.740 If it's six million, as we're hearing.

01:26:25.700 USD, which again makes it even more interesting, as you pointed out earlier.

01:26:30.580 They're willing to do that.

01:26:31.960 But there is a somberness about them.

01:26:33.900 There is like they know something.

01:26:35.820 Perhaps what President Trump was referencing on Friday.

01:26:39.300 Somehow that information came to fruition.

01:26:41.300 And it was passed to the family.

01:26:43.680 Because all he used the term was solution.

01:26:45.780 And of course, I picked up on when President Trump said it was reasonably soon.

01:26:49.300 What does that mean?

01:26:50.240 Hours, days, weeks.

01:26:51.640 That can be clarified in many different ways.

01:26:54.540 So it does seem to have a different...

01:26:56.800 There does seem to be a different persona, collective persona, reflected in that last message.

01:27:03.020 And I just hope they're wrong about it.

01:27:06.320 I still want to think she's alive.

01:27:07.680 I still want to think the investigators are looking to rescue her or at least have her released.

01:27:12.900 And I'm assuming the task force has bifurcated those looking at everyone around Mrs. Guthrie, you know, housekeepers, all the people we talked about before.

01:27:21.240 Then the other side of the team looking at a possible kidnapping.

01:27:26.160 I'm hoping they're bringing the CIA in and NSA in terms of you can put anonymizers on your computers.

01:27:32.380 You're pretty good for local law enforcement, even federal.

01:27:35.140 But I'd like to think that our system, our federal government, you know, the spooks out there, the spies know how to truly penetrate a, you know, an anonymizing type system and take this back to Eastern Europe or sub-Sahara Africa, wherever these demands are coming from.

01:27:52.660 And I'm not getting anything away here.

01:27:53.880 The NSA does not mess around.

01:27:56.520 That is the group that knows everything.

01:27:59.100 And they do know what phone, what cell phones for sure were in this area on last Saturday night between the hours of 8 and 3 a.m.

01:28:10.760 I guarantee you they know that.

01:28:12.420 And that was probably one of the first things they did once the feds got involved in this.

01:28:15.480 Real quick, I'll go to Chad.

01:28:16.880 But there's domestic and there's foreign FBI, domestic CIA, foreign NSA, et cetera.

01:28:21.580 Trump said, no, you guys work together.

01:28:23.760 We want this information out there.

01:28:26.300 Yeah, I completely agree.

01:28:28.180 Obviously, the three-letter agencies, listen, we found Osama bin Laden, right? 0.95

01:28:35.120 And we had the technology to find the most well-known violent terrorist in the world.

01:28:41.360 But if this video, you know, is more of just return the body, we want our mom, we want to have a celebration of life.

01:28:47.540 Why do we still have this 5 p.m. or 5.30 p.m. deadline of Monday if for some reason, if one of the letters said that and then they are giving us this intel?

01:28:57.440 I mean, I get it, not everything's rosy and, you know, it's kind of confusing to me.

01:29:03.560 Well, and would you recommend they pay?

01:29:06.900 Here we are, it's almost 2 o'clock Eastern.

01:29:10.300 They say, we will pay.

01:29:12.420 It's very valuable to us.

01:29:14.000 We will pay.

01:29:14.680 I mean, the implicit thought is, if you give her back to us, we will pay.

01:29:22.300 The question is, which comes first?

01:29:24.680 But they are very aware.

01:29:26.500 This is not an unsophisticated group.

01:29:28.520 I mean, Savannah, definitely Savannah's not unsophisticated.

01:29:31.840 They're very well aware that this could and almost certainly would be flushing $6 million down the drain that you will never see again that some con man will take and leave.

01:29:41.640 And they might be back next week with more bites at the apple.

01:29:44.300 I mean, you know, you could you could do this game in perpetuity.

01:29:48.980 Like you waited too long, whatever it because you got the feds involved.

01:29:54.260 The price went up.

01:29:55.240 We want another four.

01:29:55.980 You know, it's just like, I have to say, I don't think I'd pay it if I were in this tier.

01:30:00.500 Who can say, right?

01:30:01.520 I mean, that's such a, I agree.

01:30:03.700 Like we are not in that, that we are not in that position to know what that feels like.

01:30:08.540 If my mother, and obviously we keep talking about these agencies, whether it is the CIA, NSA, the Bureau, whoever.

01:30:17.820 I don't know.

01:30:18.620 Is there technology?

01:30:21.240 Are there ways there?

01:30:22.360 We got some smart people out here to say, okay, we will pay.

01:30:26.660 We want her.

01:30:28.100 And there's some way for these agencies to track the money in some type of covert or clandestine way.

01:30:36.100 There's got to be.

01:30:37.940 I don't think so.

01:30:39.400 I don't think so.

01:30:40.120 I think Bitcoin, once that's gone, it's gone forever, unfortunately.

01:30:44.560 It was funny.

01:30:45.100 You know, I've been talking to my mom a lot this week for obvious reasons.

01:30:48.780 And, um, she made me laugh because I was, I was telling her all the terrible things she

01:30:53.600 should do.

01:30:54.000 God forbid she got kidnapped.

01:30:55.240 You know, we had to make light out of it because it's gallows humor and you got to do

01:30:58.620 it.

01:30:59.060 And she said, she's all set.

01:31:00.600 My mom's all set.

01:31:01.400 She said, she's got her Louisville slugger and she's got her makeup foundation right next

01:31:05.660 to her lazy boy.

01:31:06.560 So she, she's, she's, she wants to look good, but she's ready to fight, you know?

01:31:12.200 And I laughed, you know, and I'm so lucky that my mom's there and she and I can laugh about

01:31:16.420 this and you know, it's, it's a coping mechanism, but I am thinking, I look at those grim faces

01:31:22.100 of Savannah and her siblings and it's like, there's no laughing.

01:31:25.900 There's no good outcome at this point.

01:31:27.740 You can tell they don't believe she's alive anymore, but like, they can't be sure because

01:31:32.620 of this torturer with the notes.

01:31:35.060 It's like, I feel like if the notes hadn't come by this point, they'd probably be accepting

01:31:39.720 someone did something terrible to mom.

01:31:42.200 But like at some point, Savannah, she's got young kids of her own.

01:31:45.060 She's got to go back home.

01:31:46.180 She has to take care of her children. 1.00

01:31:48.160 You know, she has obviously a career back here too. 0.91

01:31:50.620 That's, that's secondary, but how long can this go on, Chad?

01:31:54.840 You know, it's like, at what point does even law enforcement look at the siblings and say,

01:31:59.360 we've done all we can do.

01:32:03.200 It's rare you have to look at the family and say, it's officially now cold.

01:32:06.160 That's, and that's one thing we have not discussed, right?

01:32:08.720 This could very well turn into be a cold case.

01:32:10.980 And there, obviously every agency has cold case units that it's not like this is going

01:32:16.320 to, you know, be pushed to the back burner.

01:32:17.920 It's too high profile of a case.

01:32:19.180 People are going to continue to work on this case nonstop.

01:32:22.380 I'll tell you what, you know, you bringing up the conversations you had with your mom.

01:32:27.080 I'll tell you the sad part of all this.

01:32:29.500 We live in a sick world and there are sick people.

01:32:32.500 I am very afraid all the publicity this has got, we are going to start seeing some type

01:32:36.760 of copycat attacks.

01:32:38.880 Oh God.

01:32:40.380 Which it's so awful and dark, but yeah, I mean, and there is a report in the daily mail

01:32:45.140 that they've NBC has amped up security for all of its anchors.

01:32:48.540 And, you know, we were asking like, how about their family members?

01:32:51.320 Because sadly this is not, if this is an attack on Savannah Guthrie, then, then all the family

01:32:58.620 members are in jeopardy too.

01:33:02.580 You hate to even say it out loud, Jim, but yeah, obviously everybody who's in the public

01:33:06.120 eye has to consider this right now.

01:33:07.500 Yeah.

01:33:07.660 And if the precedent is established in this case, we pay money with no proof of life.

01:33:14.620 And if the mother's released, okay, that's one thing.

01:33:17.880 But if she's not going to be with no proof of, kidnappers, they know the rules.

01:33:21.900 I mean, they've obviously advanced with technology, Bitcoin, as opposed to, you know, bowling ball

01:33:27.460 bags of, uh, of $20 bills, but, uh, you know, that, those types of things have shifted and

01:33:32.400 how communications are, are, are, uh, are, are rendered, but, um, they know that you have

01:33:39.480 to, you have to follow through on your plan or it's never going to work again.

01:33:44.220 Yeah.

01:33:44.500 And that's why it's that they have an obligation to, in a way, yes, it's, it's, it's the, the

01:33:49.720 criminal code.

01:33:50.480 All right, we'll, we'll play this game with you.

01:33:52.400 And I, I mean, game in a very, uh, you know, very basic form definition.

01:33:56.300 Uh, but you know, you got to play by the rules here too.

01:33:59.180 And if money goes out, uh, for her and she is released, that's a bad precedent that money

01:34:04.520 goes out and she's never released, never found.

01:34:06.860 That's a bad precedent also for future, uh, behavior on the parts of these, uh, uh, criminal

01:34:13.540 gangs, either, you know, internal to the U S or external to, to the U S in which they could

01:34:18.580 just go along and do this.

01:34:20.120 This would be such an easy payday for this group, whoever they are, uh, of 6 million, if

01:34:26.020 not more, whatever it is today, if this deadline isn't met.

01:34:29.100 So it's, I hate to think the precedent's been created when for, you know, almost a hundred

01:34:33.520 years now, you could count on almost literally one hand, these exact type of kidnappings.

01:34:39.820 And now with all the publicity this is getting, um, it, it may just happen again.

01:34:45.260 And we all have to be careful.

01:34:46.920 That's one of the things like our friend, Billy Bush, who I love, he's awesome.

01:34:50.680 Um, he also worked at NBC for a very short stint before they blew him up.

01:34:54.900 Um, he was saying, he thinks NBC should pay the money.

01:34:58.280 I mean, this is a rounding error for corporate.

01:35:00.700 That's very clear, but there, but there are strategic considerations in not paying.

01:35:06.580 And you just touched on him, Jim, you know, it's like NBC has a lot of executives and talent.

01:35:13.400 It employs with a lot of family members, um, who are not behind the fortification that the

01:35:19.580 main star is, um, and, you know, does forking over 6 million, but out of NBC coffers jeopardize

01:35:29.260 or endanger other people there or their family, you know, or even at other news organizations,

01:35:34.780 like the whole thing's very complicated.

01:35:36.380 It's complicated for Savannah and her siblings too.

01:35:39.700 You know, it's like, they, I'm sure they're well aware.

01:35:43.800 The odds are, even if they put this $6 million in there by 5 PM today, they're never going

01:35:48.320 to see their mom again. 0.51

01:35:49.460 You know, that they're not dumb, but, but the thing that must be governing them in the 0.89

01:35:54.220 dark moments is, but there's a chance. 0.96

01:35:57.620 There's a chance.

01:35:58.540 You know, like I can see that the discussions, Chad, like they knew about the watch.

01:36:02.120 It was so specific.

01:36:03.780 You know, they did know about the floodlight.

01:36:06.380 And how did they see that it, it was on the exterior of the house, but it wasn't exactly

01:36:10.340 prominent.

01:36:11.980 Um, I don't know there, you know, there's, it's, I guarantee you they don't, well, I guess

01:36:18.360 I shouldn't guarantee.

01:36:19.020 I, I assume they do not think it was anyone in their family, including the brother-in-law,

01:36:22.900 et cetera.

01:36:23.800 And there've been enough trickles outside of the family that they, they can go with that

01:36:29.800 credibly.

01:36:30.220 You know, the white van that was seen in the neighborhood over the weekend, a neighbor reported

01:36:34.840 that Nancy Guthrie's roof looked too white.

01:36:38.300 I guess these Tucson natives all know what the roofs of their houses look like.

01:36:41.600 And they're usually pretty dirty.

01:36:42.840 And she was like, that shows me she must've had it recently painted.

01:36:45.700 So look into whether there were painters there.

01:36:47.760 Let's see, at another contractor, you maybe didn't think about, you probably thought about

01:36:50.580 the, the, the weekly gardener or the whoever, but a maid service.

01:36:55.740 That's good.

01:36:56.400 Okay.

01:36:56.700 Yes.

01:36:56.960 They're probably looking into that lead right now.

01:36:58.520 They found the camera.

01:36:59.500 I forgot to mention that in the whole two hours today.

01:37:01.200 They found a camera, a third camera on the roof of the house, Chad, um, when they searched

01:37:06.860 on Friday night, like, how did we not know about that?

01:37:10.220 Okay.

01:37:10.340 We didn't know about that.

01:37:11.100 That, that seems like an important one.

01:37:12.360 I guarantee she probably wasn't paying for that one to record either because she wasn't,

01:37:16.680 I guess I shouldn't guarantee because again, because there was something online with Nancy

01:37:20.420 Guthrie asking around about what kind of a camera is best to record wildlife with.

01:37:24.140 And so it is possible for that one, if that was her required wildlife camera, you know,

01:37:29.320 that the wildlife comes out at night.

01:37:30.960 So maybe she did actually pay for that one to record.

01:37:33.340 I don't know.

01:37:33.740 But my point is simply all of this stuff will give you plenty and should give us plenty

01:37:37.120 of fodder to go down the lane of.

01:37:38.960 It was a stranger abduction, but the ransoms are real.

01:37:43.500 And for $6 million, we can know.

01:37:46.580 Yeah.

01:37:47.000 I mean, going back to the roof, like that's, that's Jim will tell you, this is like basic

01:37:51.280 police 101, right?

01:37:53.340 Plenty of times suspects have left and in a panic, toss something on top of a roof.

01:37:59.980 I'm not sure this was the first time.

01:38:02.020 It appears like it was the first time they actually got on the roof and started searching.

01:38:07.100 But I, I do think the sheriff has admitted he kind of dropped the ball on some of this

01:38:11.040 investigation, delaying some of these things, especially getting their pilot up and, you

01:38:15.880 know, not reaching out to the bureau for a little bit of time.

01:38:18.900 I think, you know, but I want to be careful.

01:38:20.700 I don't, it's easy for us sitting back here to armchair quarterback, the sheriff's actions,

01:38:26.040 but this is not a normal type of case that they are faced with, you know, frequent.

01:38:31.240 Nobody in the country is faced with this frequently.

01:38:33.080 So I do want to give a little bit of grace.

01:38:35.420 I'm not going to give grace to him going to the basketball game.

01:38:37.900 That's for sure.

01:38:39.480 Yeah.

01:38:40.260 I want to ask another question, guys, that I've been meaning to ask.

01:38:42.960 Why did they search Nancy Guthrie's home?

01:38:46.340 Sorry, Annie Guthrie's home at night.

01:38:48.600 Brian Enten spoke with a former Pima County sheriff's deputy who said typically they do

01:38:56.520 it after they learn the information that's relevant.

01:38:59.720 Like someone said something that they said, oh, shoot, we should go over there and check

01:39:04.160 that out.

01:39:04.940 And it could just be a matter of they learned something interesting at 6 p.m. that night.

01:39:11.020 They called Annie and Tomas and said, do we have your permission to go into the house?

01:39:14.300 And they said, sure, go for it.

01:39:15.520 So it could be that simple.

01:39:16.960 But does it strike you as odd?

01:39:18.260 Because in the darkness, is that the best time to go in?

01:39:22.080 And the media is there 24 seven.

01:39:23.580 They couldn't this couldn't have been about avoiding the media because they know as well

01:39:26.540 as we do.

01:39:27.400 They're camped out there and you're going to get you're going to get caught doing what

01:39:31.220 you're doing now.

01:39:31.820 Maybe it's harder for the media to see in.

01:39:33.780 But the media saw the cameras going off.

01:39:35.420 You can see this video we're playing here.

01:39:37.460 They saw the flashes going off.

01:39:38.760 They knew that they were doing investigative police work in there, Jim.

01:39:41.540 Megan, am I correct in assuming this was Saturday night, six o'clock, seven o'clock, that they

01:39:48.400 were at Annie's house?

01:39:50.600 So that it ended at, I think, 10.

01:39:52.880 It was 730 to 1030 or about there.

01:39:55.460 So coincidentally or not, planned or not, one week to the hour they went back to the house

01:40:02.220 when ostensibly Mrs. Guthrie was last seen or at least spent time with family members

01:40:09.360 there and the agents just wanted to see the outside, the lighting elements.

01:40:15.860 I mean, they may have been searching for other things, too.

01:40:17.880 Obviously, DNA of Mrs. Guthrie, of Nancy or certainly fingerprints wouldn't mean anything

01:40:25.320 because she's there all the time.

01:40:26.800 So they just perhaps wanted to go back the exact week after it happened, just like I'm

01:40:30.960 hoping there were road stops out there around two in the morning through 6 a.m.

01:40:35.180 Sunday morning in that area, one week after the fact.

01:40:38.960 So it could be a very practical reason or it could be more conflated that we don't know

01:40:43.300 about.

01:40:44.280 Stand by.

01:40:45.260 There's news breaking on the case.

01:40:46.640 I think Chad's got to run.

01:40:47.740 Jim's going to stay with us.

01:40:48.740 Chad, if you can stay, you're welcome to stay, too.

01:40:50.580 And we will be right back with more with the guys.

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01:42:42.080 Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly.

01:42:45.580 I've got some exciting news.

01:42:47.800 I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM.

01:42:50.940 It's called the Megan Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered,

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01:43:17.580 Jim and Chad are back with me.

01:43:19.520 Guys, two things just in.

01:43:22.160 NBC's Kelly O'Donnell just reporting that President Trump has been, quote, closely following the

01:43:29.500 Guthrie investigation, end quote, receiving frequent updates, end quote, citing Caroline

01:43:35.940 Levitt, who did not hold a press briefing, so we're not totally sure.

01:43:40.420 Maybe she just reached out to her directly.

01:43:42.300 He's been closely following it, and he's been receiving frequent updates.

01:43:45.380 Left unsaid is, from whom exactly?

01:43:49.020 Because that appears to be the person that told him that other stuff.

01:43:53.380 Trump would not come out there and just say all that stuff about, you know, we're close,

01:43:57.640 we're doing very well.

01:43:58.540 We have clues that are very strong, could have answers very soon.

01:44:02.940 Um, not regarding a search, but regarding a solution.

01:44:07.420 We have things that may come out, could be definitive, uh, reasonably soon.

01:44:12.780 Is there a suspect?

01:44:13.960 He says, yeah, but it's a passing sort of quick exchange, so I'm not 100% sure he meant to

01:44:18.640 say there's a suspect.

01:44:19.480 In any event, um, that's the latest from the White House.

01:44:22.120 And now the Daily Mail just dropping this piece as we signed off from the two o'clock

01:44:27.880 hour.

01:44:28.180 And there's something in here that's relevant to something we've been discussing.

01:44:32.080 The headline of the piece is, Anguished Savannah Guthrie Rushes to $1.2 million Desert Hideaway

01:44:36.760 Amid FBI Search at Sister Annie's Home and as 5 p.m.

01:44:41.100 Ransom Deadline Looms.

01:44:42.660 And it's all about how she, her brother, her sister, and they say her brother-in-law have

01:44:47.440 moved into this mansion, which is in a gated community, which is good, um, as they wait this

01:44:53.400 thing out and, um, we'll refrain from giving any of the other details of where they're

01:44:59.200 staying since it's unnecessary.

01:45:01.020 Um, but almost as a throwaway in here, you guys, the Daily Mail, which is the one that

01:45:06.940 broke the news that she wasn't attending church in person, that she was, Nancy Guthrie was

01:45:11.580 attending it online via a live stream that was not visible to the congregants, um, leaving

01:45:18.720 us all to wonder how would the family have been alerted that she wasn't at church, answers

01:45:23.140 its own question in here without really calling attention to the fact that they've solved a

01:45:28.140 mystery of their own creation.

01:45:29.700 They write, they're going through the timeline of the night in question, uh, her, her pacemaker

01:45:35.560 disconnected from an app on her phone, suggesting she had moved out of range.

01:45:39.080 And then they write, the alarm was not raised until the following day when Nancy failed to join

01:45:45.080 a group of friends who had been due to watch an online service at St. Andrew's Presbyterian

01:45:52.220 Church together that morning, 11, at 1156 AM, Nancy's family arrived to her home and so on.

01:45:58.940 So that, if that's true, that she wasn't going, I mean, it's kind of odd.

01:46:04.000 She wasn't going to church since COVID, presumably because of the germ factor.

01:46:09.300 I don't know, but she was gathering with friends to watch the church.

01:46:13.480 It's like, if you gather with, I don't, whatever, that may have been her habit.

01:46:17.040 If that's true, then it would explain how things went down that morning, but it would not clear

01:46:22.460 up the discrepancy in the timing as the police changed the timeline dramatically at that Thursday

01:46:29.100 presser.

01:46:30.240 You know, Nanos was all over the news media saying that the family had called, had arrived

01:46:35.240 at the house around 11, 1110 and didn't call them until 1157.

01:46:39.680 Oh, sorry, just afternoon.

01:46:42.660 And he was like, oh, it took him an hour to look for her.

01:46:45.740 And then at that presser, he just completely changed it to, it only took him seven minutes

01:46:49.800 to call us.

01:46:50.380 They arrived at 1157 and they called at four after.

01:46:52.820 That has not been explained.

01:46:53.940 But if that's true about her watching generally the online service with friends and she didn't

01:46:58.500 show up to the friend group, that would explain it, I think.

01:47:04.000 Okay.

01:47:04.140 But now I want to shift to discussing what they were searching, you guys.

01:47:08.060 They went to the back of the property, Nancy's property, and they removed this, we're calling

01:47:12.900 it a manhole cover because that's what it looks like.

01:47:14.680 And they shoved like some long pole down there.

01:47:18.500 We believe it might've been a water tank of some sort because it doesn't look like a septic

01:47:22.460 tank given how casual the guy is.

01:47:24.840 He's not dressed in a mask or anything.

01:47:26.540 Um, and they, we reportedly put a metal detector down there.

01:47:31.120 So what, what do you think is happening here, Chad?

01:47:35.280 Yeah, I think first of all, with the metal detector aspect, they're going to see if any

01:47:40.300 type of, you know, weapon was disregarded, uh, into this area.

01:47:45.380 I think that's a mixture of a weapon or also looking for a body.

01:47:49.160 Listen, we, we, we do have confirmation that there are agencies out there conducting grid

01:47:54.840 searches.

01:47:55.260 Now I did, I think I asked, uh, on Friday or it might've been yesterday with a, with a

01:48:01.260 team of people, we were discussing this.

01:48:03.900 They said there's not a lot of grid searching going on right there in that immediate area.

01:48:09.200 I find that very interesting.

01:48:10.720 Now, granted, I've pulled this location up on a map.

01:48:13.560 I've looked at the topography of it and we do see, we, we have seen some maps being attached

01:48:18.840 to vehicles.

01:48:19.660 I would assume that there would be an intense grid search going on.

01:48:23.740 And if there's not an intense grid search going on, it makes me believe that the Bureau

01:48:27.880 is truly believing she is not in that immediate area, but good police work.

01:48:32.740 I would still, I'm not trusting these kidnappers.

01:48:35.140 I'm still going to conduct a grid search, you know, of all over that area.

01:48:38.920 I'm going to put guys on horseback.

01:48:40.320 I'm going to have Bortat come in because they are very good at working in that type of terrain.

01:48:43.960 Um, but it would be interesting, Megan, you know, I know you've got, um, some of your team that

01:48:50.540 should be, uh, arriving pretty soon.

01:48:52.580 So I would love to know what it looks like around the area, uh, of that residence or is

01:48:58.880 there, you know, boots on the ground searches being conducted in that immediate vicinity.

01:49:03.940 And also what we did here on Saturday night that they did a grid search.

01:49:08.940 They used that term grid search Saturday night over at Nancy's property.

01:49:13.880 You know, we talked about the search at Annie's property, but at Nancy's property, they had

01:49:18.020 a grid search going as well.

01:49:19.440 We were told.

01:49:20.100 Well, and Chad, they also had, um, these maps laid out like on the side of their vehicles,

01:49:27.440 like the side of a Jeep or an SUV showing it here, a pickup truck and, uh, can't quite

01:49:33.700 see it from here, but it's, it's like, it's the neighborhood.

01:49:37.800 It's like the, the, the streets of this neighborhood.

01:49:41.620 And obviously they're very interested in, I don't, I mean, I don't know what they're

01:49:46.100 searching for.

01:49:46.740 Is it, is it a weapon?

01:49:48.100 Is it Nancy?

01:49:49.440 Well, I mean, I would have a lot better direction on this, Megan, if we also knew if,

01:49:54.120 have we seen dogs on the ground?

01:49:55.600 Are we using bloodhounds?

01:49:57.440 Are we using cadaver dogs?

01:49:59.220 Are we using patrol dogs that are, or that can, can conduct article searches there?

01:50:04.440 You know, canines can, I can give them a command and anything with human odor on it, whether

01:50:09.860 it's a car key, um, you know, evidence can be found by canines.

01:50:14.040 These are all questions.

01:50:15.160 And look, we've had drones up, news drones up.

01:50:18.600 We've had news helicopters up.

01:50:20.520 I have not seen many dogs being deployed out in that area, but again, um, I'm not there.

01:50:26.160 These are questions that I would love to know.

01:50:28.040 I heard, um, a former FBI agent speaking with, with, uh, Brian over the weekend saying, um,

01:50:37.540 obviously the animal factor is very dark to consider, but you do have to consider it because

01:50:44.040 they, they gave up the search and rescue within 24 hours.

01:50:47.000 And so if God forbid, Nancy were killed and left out in that desert, you know, anything could have

01:50:54.300 happened to her by now.

01:50:55.320 And, and with, if her remains are gone, so is evidence.

01:51:00.140 Um, but this FBI agent, Jim was talking about how the FBI would have her as a matter of course,

01:51:07.560 if they're searching an area like this, like in the desert, they would gather animal scat,

01:51:13.620 meaning like feces, and they would examine it for bones and human hair, not all of which

01:51:21.140 can be digested even by an animal.

01:51:23.100 So like the game is not necessarily over if God forbid you're trying to find a murder victim

01:51:30.480 and the animals have gotten to this person before the searchers have, I know this is all

01:51:36.280 extremely macabre, but this is what guys like you have to think about.

01:51:40.660 Yeah.

01:51:41.260 And I'm familiar with research done on, um, body farms, which people donate their bodies

01:51:46.100 and academics and law enforcement.

01:51:48.560 They put the bodies out in various types of terrains, uh, underground, above ground, cold,

01:51:54.640 warm with animals, uh, with insects and a lot of different things has been learned.

01:52:00.480 I've been learned over the last few years, last, you know, quarter of a century, really,

01:52:04.820 since, uh, I know it's been going on.

01:52:06.860 So, uh, they are very, wait, wait, wait, wait, can you just explain that?

01:52:10.100 Are you saying that like somebody who, instead of donating their body to science to be like

01:52:13.220 a cadaver in a med school, they donate it to a body farm so people can just see what happens

01:52:18.580 to it.

01:52:18.940 If you put out in the wilderness, there's video cameras they put on the bodies and, uh, and

01:52:22.940 they tested every day temperatures.

01:52:24.540 I mean, all kinds of factors.

01:52:25.960 So we know strictly for these types of operations and none of us, none of us want to go

01:52:30.380 here today about Nancy Guthrie, but these are factors that, you know, they're flying

01:52:34.120 in other teams, uh, you know, into this, uh, task force area in Tucson and that we're

01:52:39.460 saying, Hey, well, this is our specialty, let us go out and do this.

01:52:42.180 So of course they're looking into the, whether they're wells, septic tanks, whatever they

01:52:45.940 are with different types of devices.

01:52:47.900 And Megan, it was early last week.

01:52:50.120 I think I said to you, I'm hoping they really checked the property of Mrs. Guthrie, including

01:52:54.160 the pool room where the filter chlorinators kept.

01:52:56.480 And of course, by extension, any type of a well in her property, water tower in the

01:53:00.200 area, anything like that.

01:53:01.420 So, uh, this is very logical.

01:53:03.300 They have to do, I'll tell you, and Chad can relate to this.

01:53:05.420 I'm sure, uh, no investigator out there, nor his or her supervisor.

01:53:10.640 When we'll just say Mrs.

01:53:12.520 Guthrie is found wants to be the one to say, why didn't you check there?

01:53:16.040 Didn't we tell you to do that?

01:53:17.240 Or is not, you know, uh, uh, forensics one-on-one or, uh, you know, grid search one-on-one.

01:53:22.360 So they want to make sure they're covering every track and the, but not just for that

01:53:26.560 reason, because they want to get it done.

01:53:27.680 Right.

01:53:28.240 And, uh, they've had a week now over a week, and they're now looking at every single option

01:53:33.760 that they may not have explored.

01:53:35.540 And quite frankly, they should go over it again.

01:53:38.200 I've been in cases, um, where, uh, local law enforcement academies, you know, the recruits

01:53:43.600 that could be in for two weeks or two months, they're emptied and maybe 40 or 60 people

01:53:48.460 are not getting as many recruits anymore as they used to.

01:53:50.880 But certainly they would bring them in, bus them in. 1.00

01:53:53.160 They're the ones doing these crime scene grid searches.

01:53:56.260 And, um, and they really should be doing that.

01:53:58.220 Every single square inch of that, uh, area should be searched, search warrants or not,

01:54:03.980 uh, if they're needed to, uh, to look for shallow graves.

01:54:07.580 And there's, there's ground penetrating radar, uh, that's out there.

01:54:11.040 And that that's very sophisticated.

01:54:12.300 You can find movement of the earth.

01:54:14.120 You can see that from above.

01:54:15.740 Uh, so there's all kinds of things they're going to do.

01:54:17.980 And that's why I said, this team is, it's bifurcated.

01:54:20.520 We're working the kidnapping.

01:54:21.800 We're working that someone else just took her and dropped her off.

01:54:24.960 And of course there are sub teams on each one of those trying to put this together.

01:54:28.740 New people are flying in, um, from all different types of agencies.

01:54:33.000 They come up with ideas.

01:54:34.460 Sure.

01:54:35.000 Nothing's worked so far.

01:54:36.220 Let's go out and check this place.

01:54:37.680 And that's kind of what they're doing there.

01:54:39.020 I mean, I, I hate to say it, but the pacemaker would still be there.

01:54:45.680 You know, I mean, the pacemaker is not something that an animal would consume.

01:54:50.840 I'm sorry to get so graphic.

01:54:52.400 It's just, as we see them doing grid search after grid search in her backyard, I think

01:54:56.300 we all know exactly what they're looking for.

01:54:57.840 One of two things, clues from the kidnapper slash perpetrator and, or Nancy and her remains.

01:55:05.100 And, you know, I mean, that's, that's why you do a grid search generally, and you're

01:55:09.220 looking for evidence.

01:55:09.820 And I saw them put that metal detector down there, Chad, and all I could think was, would

01:55:14.280 it detect a pacemaker?

01:55:15.780 Would a metal detector?

01:55:16.880 And I actually just did a quick search online.

01:55:18.620 It was like, well, it might, it actually might.

01:55:21.380 And they, they give people who have pacemakers, it sounds like kind of conflicting advice about

01:55:25.800 going through a magnetometer.

01:55:26.940 Like maybe just tell people who are going to wand you that you have it.

01:55:30.820 They tell them, uh, it's not going to hurt you if you get wanded, but like, you don't

01:55:34.800 want the, the wand to linger in front of the pacemaker for too long because it could kind

01:55:38.420 of change the wavelength or whatever.

01:55:39.720 But it's possible that they were, they were hoping to catch, you know, that piece of metal.

01:55:45.840 Um, and maybe that could be an identifying, God forbid, the worst is, has happened and identifying

01:55:50.520 thing that is left behind.

01:55:52.440 Sorry, again, it's dark, but that's the story that we're covering.

01:55:55.960 Um, the other thing they seized Chad, and maybe it's just what you guys are saying was now

01:56:02.480 they seized Nancy's car now.

01:56:04.960 I mean, literally a week after she went missing, but there's not, as far as I know, even an

01:56:10.640 allegation that she drove this car during any of the relevant timeframe.

01:56:15.940 Well, not just that.

01:56:17.100 We also know that why didn't, you know, she may have had a car, but we also know we're

01:56:21.560 dealing with an 84 year old lady with a lot of health conditions, you know, questions 1.00

01:56:25.440 I would have, that we haven't heard is, does she still actively drive?

01:56:29.340 And if she does, you know, is it possible, you know, that she was out driving, um, and

01:56:36.460 there is trace DNA from, uh, someone that was in her car, whether it is a work or a home,

01:56:41.820 again, going back to the home healthcare or someone else.

01:56:44.880 I think that that is just good police work to, to do a complete analysis of that vehicle

01:56:51.220 as well.

01:56:52.360 Um, and see if there were any fibers in that vehicle.

01:56:56.500 Um, again, we have to do.

01:56:58.960 Like you could have had a situation where they were dragging her out of the house and they

01:57:03.200 brushed up against her, you know, put her in the car for a second while we get right. 0.83

01:57:05.940 Yeah.

01:57:06.140 Like, in other words, why wouldn't you check it?

01:57:08.940 Why would, why wouldn't you take that down to the lab and swab every inch of it?

01:57:13.860 But wait, that just reminded me, think about the timeline Friday night.

01:57:18.380 We saw a video courtesy of Fox news of them on the rooftop, finding that, that camera.

01:57:25.580 There is 100% a camera on the top of Nancy Guthrie's roof. 0.80

01:57:30.480 And earlier that week it had been circulating online and I had seen it myself.

01:57:34.940 There was a post by Nancy Guthrie online.

01:57:37.280 Um, I don't know, a while back, it was a couple of years ago saying, what's the best

01:57:41.280 camera for watching wildlife and various people weighed in.

01:57:45.760 She, she wanted to see like the coyotes in her backyard who again are mostly nighttime

01:57:51.560 creatures.

01:57:52.260 So it is possible you guys, that that camera did have some sort of a recording capacity

01:57:58.780 to it.

01:57:59.820 Clearly the Pima County Sheriff missed it because he wouldn't have left a camera sitting there

01:58:05.900 from Sunday to Friday if he knew about it.

01:58:10.740 And it does, it does get kind of interesting that it was Friday night.

01:58:15.540 That President Trump later made his comments.

01:58:20.840 Um, didn't he just, can we just hear it one more time?

01:58:23.600 Forgive me for playing it one more time.

01:58:24.820 Can we hear Trump one more time?

01:58:27.480 President promised Savannah Guthrie's family, the full support of federal law enforcement.

01:58:32.140 FBI is now closed.

01:58:33.380 I'll give you a little statement.

01:58:34.560 I think we're doing very well.

01:58:36.400 On that regard, you're probably surprised to hear that.

01:58:39.480 Uh, I think we're doing very well.

01:58:41.600 Very well meeting.

01:58:43.100 We have some clues, I think, that are very strong.

01:58:45.980 And I think we could have some answers coming up fairly soon.

01:58:49.860 Is this a nationwide search?

01:58:51.220 Is this a search going to Mexico?

01:58:52.740 I'm not talking about a search.

01:58:53.520 I'm talking about a solution.

01:58:54.680 Um, we have some things, I think, that will maybe come out reasonably soon from DOJ or FBI or whoever that could be, uh, could be definitive.

01:59:10.140 Yes.

01:59:10.440 A lot's taken place in the last couple of hours.

01:59:12.720 A lot of, a lot of things have happened with regard to that horrible situation in the last couple of hours.

01:59:20.940 There it is.

01:59:22.520 Last couple of hours.

01:59:23.800 I, he could be talking about that camera, Jim.

01:59:26.960 What if that camera did have a recording function and they actually have somebody on tape who also might not have banked on the rooftop cam?

01:59:37.380 Yeah, and again, I'd want timestamps on when the camera was found and when, you said it was Friday night that the president made that statement?

01:59:45.220 Uh, we're looking it up right now, I guess.

01:59:46.840 Yeah, and the camera was found.

01:59:47.900 It was like in daylight.

01:59:48.780 There's, uh, agents up there.

01:59:50.780 Uh, so that could be an important fact, not just that a camera was found.

01:59:55.080 I don't think President Trump would say something, oh, they found one extra camera.

01:59:58.460 But there was some kind of a recording, uh, aspect to it.

02:00:01.360 And boy, I, neither Chad nor I, I don't think we've said anything really negative about law enforcement, but if somehow they missed this camera for the first five days or so, that's not a, that's not a good sign.

02:00:13.360 Especially if it has recording capabilities, you know, in the cloud somewhere, either way, the thing wasn't, uh, smashed.

02:00:19.580 I mean, even if it had a thumb drive in it of some sort, depending on how they work.

02:00:23.780 But yeah, you don't get these things for wildlife.

02:00:25.760 You just see them in real time.

02:00:27.380 Maybe you get a notice on your phone and, oh, look, a little coyote out there, but you want to be able to wake up in the morning and see what the heck happened with all the critters, you know, overnight.

02:00:35.860 So it would only make sense.

02:00:37.760 It's weird that your doorbell camera wouldn't have recording capabilities.

02:00:42.140 Maybe not so weird that the one on top of the house right by the front door looks like wood.

02:00:46.220 And boy, what a, what a treasure trove of, of recorded evidence that could be.

02:00:50.860 Um, so it'd be nice to, it'd be nice to see that.

02:00:52.940 You know, Chad, one of the oddities of that, though, is why wouldn't the family have told law enforcement, she's got a camera on the roof.

02:01:04.920 Did you get that one?

02:01:06.260 She loved it.

02:01:07.260 She loved to watch the wildlife, you know, or, and maybe even, who knows, like it could have been a family member who installed it.

02:01:14.320 I mean, in my family, if something's getting installed at my mom's house, it's either my brother, our handyman, or the service provider who brought it, you know?

02:01:25.420 So it's like, it's a small circle of people who would, would have done it.

02:01:29.240 Well, I think too, in critical situations, Jim, being the behavior guy, we all handle stress and trauma differently.

02:01:36.540 And so at this timeframe, your mother's missing, is it possible they didn't even think about that camera up top with everything that's going on?

02:01:45.700 No, that's not possible.

02:01:48.200 Like, I just, that's not possible.

02:01:51.240 Like, if your, if your mother's missing, it is critical that you account for every video device that could possibly have caught her abduction for authorities.

02:02:06.660 Like, I agree, but could it, could it have popped in their head later on?

02:02:10.360 The only possible explanation is they didn't know about it.

02:02:11.520 Correct.

02:02:12.160 It's possible they didn't know about it.

02:02:13.920 Maybe she just had it done. 0.99

02:02:15.240 The service provider put it up there and she never discussed it with anybody.

02:02:18.460 And a lot of these, these wildlife cameras, at least the ones, look, I'm a hunter.

02:02:22.020 So I'm basing this off of cameras that I put out in the woods to see wildlife.

02:02:25.280 I have an app.

02:02:26.500 And if I don't pay the subscription, I'm not getting the photos in a file sent to that app.

02:02:33.080 But all of my cameras, all those cameras on, on the wildlife side type of, you know, trail cameras do have an SD card in them that can be removed.

02:02:44.060 I do know that for a 100% fact.

02:02:46.100 I'm not saying that's what type of camera was utilized, but if it was, most of these cameras, even if she did not have a subscription, most of these cameras have some type of SD card inside of them.

02:02:57.700 That, I mean, that's really interesting.

02:02:59.640 Even if it weren't the camera, it does make you wonder, what did President learn on Friday?

02:03:04.380 President Trump learned, we've learned in the past couple of hours.

02:03:07.740 The presser was on Thursday.

02:03:10.320 The, when did the second note come?

02:03:13.440 Was it Friday, you guys?

02:03:14.500 Yes, at some point Friday.

02:03:16.420 So the second, the second note came on Friday.

02:03:20.360 It's possible that person, again, because we're not sure if President Trump was referring to finding the suspect who hurt Nancy or the notes, the person behind the notes.

02:03:31.740 Maybe the person screwed up.

02:03:33.680 Maybe there was some identifying information on the second note that he was referring to then, because that timing also dovetails.

02:03:39.520 And we're trying to figure out the exact timing of the Fox video of them finding the camera and President Trump's remarks.

02:03:47.740 Hold on a second.

02:03:48.300 The Fox post about the agent pulling the wire device from the roof was posted at 8.37 p.m.

02:03:57.000 Okay, but that's Eastern.

02:03:59.000 So that would have been 6.37 p.m. Tucson time.

02:04:02.720 And do we know?

02:04:03.540 Okay, the gaggle with President Trump began at 7.26 on Air Force One Eastern time.

02:04:10.820 So that was before Fox News posted it.

02:04:14.220 So maybe, but I don't know, that doesn't, Fox, Trump's not getting his information on what's happening in this case from Fox News.

02:04:21.760 He's getting it clearly from DOJ or FBI.

02:04:24.780 And who knows?

02:04:26.380 Maybe they did.

02:04:28.580 Maybe they had already, you know, you get that, you're going to look in two seconds.

02:04:32.200 You're going to take that as whatever you called it, the USB card.

02:04:37.380 You're going to stick it in a laptop on site to see if you can see something.

02:04:41.200 Who knows?

02:04:42.260 So there's that possibility.

02:04:43.640 And there's also a possibility that they were able to identify something off of the note that was sent on Friday.

02:04:50.740 But something appears to have broken on Friday that got the president excited about, you know, the possibility of solving this case.

02:04:59.140 Brian Engine reported Friday that a ransom message, although now we know it wasn't.

02:05:03.980 He reported it at 6.20 p.m.

02:05:06.300 Again, law enforcement is going to know about all this long before we do.

02:05:10.020 So that came at 6.20.

02:05:12.740 The president began his gaggle on Air Force One at 7.26.

02:05:17.360 And the Fox post about the agent pulling the wire device from the roof was 8.37 p.m.

02:05:22.460 But, again, we don't know when that actually happened.

02:05:26.700 We just know that they did a post about it.

02:05:29.240 I'll tell you one thing that I find very interesting.

02:05:30.600 I don't know how Fox would have handled that.

02:05:31.520 One thing I find very interesting, and I may be looking into this too much, but it is now confirmed that Cash Patel will be in Tucson.

02:05:42.040 So you're saying it is confirmed that Cash Patel will be in Tucson tomorrow.

02:05:49.460 So could this be, you know, is this already just a planned trip that he had to come out there?

02:05:55.120 Or are we going to have a good presser tomorrow with some updated intelligence or information?

02:06:02.880 I have a question about the Cash Patel thing, but let me just, do you have the message, Steve?

02:06:07.520 Can you send it to me?

02:06:08.180 Um, it was 2021 that Nancy was looking for a camera so she could watch outdoor wildlife, which is not as great as it being like 2023 or 2024.

02:06:21.360 You know, the bloom comes off the rose on that kind of thing, and maybe you let the subscription lapse, and, you know, maybe if you first had a recording service by year five or four, you're kind of like, eh, I'm not that into it.

02:06:36.120 Um, last week there was a report that Cash was going out to Tucson, and then they said, no, that's not right.

02:06:42.740 But they said he is coming next week, and they said, but it's pre-planned.

02:06:47.940 I don't, I got, I got some doubts about it, Jim.

02:06:50.840 I like, it just so happens that the FBI director is going to Tucson, Arizona, of all places?

02:06:56.780 I mean, it's a border town, but that's not really the FBI's purview.

02:07:00.640 Um, I don't know.

02:07:02.300 I've got my doubts.

02:07:03.300 Do you think something's, something may be afoot?

02:07:05.580 I want to be careful about speculation in that regard.

02:07:09.140 I mean, I was on the Unabom task force.

02:07:10.960 Director Free showed up at least once.

02:07:13.200 That's the only time I actually ever met him close up.

02:07:15.600 And other directors want to give support to long-ranging and long-term investigations.

02:07:21.420 Unabom was that.

02:07:22.560 This is only, you know, nine days or so now.

02:07:25.000 So, but nonetheless, he wants to come out.

02:07:26.380 He seems to be like a hands-on sort of director, and I support how he's doing that.

02:07:30.900 At least in the Charlie Kirk matter, he did put something out.

02:07:33.640 A little bit premature, but I don't think he's done that since then.

02:07:36.980 So he's been very careful.

02:07:38.560 And if he did tell President Trump something, and then President Trump put that statement out,

02:07:42.660 I'd like to think they had something.

02:07:44.400 But of course, what is it?

02:07:45.360 Probably wasn't a body being found because the family would have been told that right away.

02:07:49.000 It has to have something to do with the communications.

02:07:50.680 Perhaps the camera information on it, and perhaps they could take it to a lab,

02:07:54.600 and they could do some special work with it to recover what was in there,

02:07:57.640 if it's only that SD card that Chad was talking about.

02:08:00.340 Look, they could be working overseas with some of our partners.

02:08:02.940 And again, I'm not ruling out that these extortionists, we'll call them that now,

02:08:06.940 if they're not really the kidnappers, which it's very possible they're not.

02:08:10.340 You know, they have some countries over there, and their intelligence agents looking at some facilities,

02:08:15.460 some houses, not that Mrs. Guthrie is there by any stretch,

02:08:18.420 but at least looking at the people running this part of it.

02:08:21.360 And going from there.

02:08:22.820 So there's some, and maybe Cash Patel will have something to say about that next day or two.

02:08:27.100 But that's the only kind of break they're looking for right now.

02:08:29.860 That stuff's all secondary.

02:08:31.040 It'd be great to arrest those guys, but we really want to find Mrs. Guthrie hopefully alive.

02:08:37.340 But the family just wants back to do that celebration that they talked about.

02:08:41.340 But of course, it'll be a celebration of life at this point.

02:08:44.520 Well, we'll know soon enough whether Cash is going out there for this case and has something to say.

02:08:50.680 Obviously, you know, that won't be a secret.

02:08:53.460 But again, I think that the FBI is in a backseat role on this.

02:08:58.020 Even though they are the ones who arrested the fake, the for sure fake ransom demander,

02:09:02.860 you know, the one who was harassing the family via text message.

02:09:05.280 They did arrest that guy.

02:09:06.940 Here's the tweet, you guys.

02:09:08.240 It's not a tweet.

02:09:08.780 I think she posted it on Reddit or forum.

02:09:11.260 November 25th.

02:09:12.300 What was this, Steve?

02:09:15.100 Next door.

02:09:16.660 November 25th, 2021.

02:09:18.460 She posted, quote,

02:09:19.300 I'm thinking about buying Ring or Nest security slash doorbell camera.

02:09:24.920 Any suggestions?

02:09:26.360 Which has the best camera interested in seeing animal activity at night?

02:09:32.300 So that was 2021.

02:09:33.960 We know for a fact she did get two Nest security cameras,

02:09:36.920 and she appears to have gotten a third camera.

02:09:39.080 And it is possible that this case will all come down to that.

02:09:44.520 And guys, thank you to be continued.

02:09:47.120 This time tomorrow, we'll know what the family decided to do

02:09:49.440 on the agonizing decision about a $6 million ransom

02:09:53.300 where there's been no proof of life.

02:09:55.880 Say a prayer for them.

02:09:57.480 Chad, thank you.

02:09:58.360 Jim, you as well.

02:09:59.780 And thanks to all of you for listening and tuning in.

02:10:03.260 We did not get to the Super Bowl,

02:10:05.720 but I'm pretty sure you're not depending on me for your sports news.

02:10:09.100 I do have some thoughts on the absurdity of Bad Bunny.

02:10:13.680 Just had a very, very feisty argument with Piers Morgan

02:10:17.700 on his show about Bad Bunny, whom he defended.

02:10:21.200 I did not.

02:10:22.640 And we will get into that tomorrow.

02:10:24.840 We have Andrew Klavan here,

02:10:25.860 and we're going to bring our guys back too

02:10:27.220 for any developments in this case.

02:10:28.800 So we'll have time for some other news as well.

02:10:31.380 Thank you all.

02:10:32.400 And lots of love.

02:10:33.260 We'll see you tomorrow.

02:10:35.840 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

02:10:38.040 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

02:10:43.680 Oh boy, this laundry's piling up.

02:10:48.820 Okay.

02:10:49.800 I need a fresh start.

02:10:51.360 And lose all this, babe?

02:10:52.960 Seriously, again with this?

02:10:54.760 It's time to break up with your debt.

02:10:56.840 Farber Debt Solutions.

02:10:58.080 Licensed insolvency trustees.

02:10:59.800 Get the truth about debt.

02:11:01.040 When your kids head out for the night,

02:11:05.840 we know that their safety is important to you.

02:11:09.720 It's important to us too.

02:11:12.760 Toyota.

02:11:13.840 For what matters most.

The Megyn Kelly Show - February 09, 2026

Nancy Guthrie and Daughter's Homes Searched Again, Plus NEW Ransom Details, with Brian Entin, Fitzgerald, Ayers, and O'Shea ｜ Ep. 1248

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