The Megyn Kelly Show - Navigating Life's Mission Changes, the Fear of Success, and the Goal of Greatness, with Lewis Howes

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00:00:31.140 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.620 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.820 If you are ready to level up your goals, your mindset, your life in this year, 2023,

00:00:53.080 this episode is perfect for you.

00:00:55.040 Lewis Howes is a New York Times bestselling author, an entrepreneur,

00:00:59.780 high performance coach and speaker.

00:01:02.440 His story of growing up in a small town in Ohio, creating a very successful business

00:01:06.960 and now using his platform to inspire and educate millions

00:01:11.060 might just motivate you to get off the couch, to make that one phone call,

00:01:16.380 to think about next steps toward a better you, if not the best you.

00:01:23.080 He interviews some of the best-known leaders, entrepreneurs, and experts around the world

00:01:26.900 when it comes to business, health, relationships.

00:01:29.960 People like Kobe Bryant have sat with him, all on his hit podcast, The School of Greatness.

00:01:36.640 It's a great name, right? The School of Greatness.

00:01:39.020 His new book is called The Greatness Mindset,

00:01:42.100 and it provides you with real exercises to overcome limits

00:01:45.300 and hopefully unlock the potential to be your greatest self, starting right now.

00:01:51.820 Lewis, welcome to the show. How are you?

00:01:53.560 Thanks, Megan. Good to see you. Thanks for having me.

00:01:55.880 No, the pleasure's mine. I assume your answer is you're great.

00:01:59.000 You're great and you're getting better.

00:02:00.960 I'm a very peaceful human being, and I think there's many times in my life

00:02:05.980 where I didn't feel peaceful, and I'm just very grateful that I have peace in my heart.

00:02:10.340 That's a good point. It's hard to feel that way.

00:02:12.460 I remember our daughter, when she was little, she was just, you know, full of energy or whatever,

00:02:20.240 and we used to say, Yarts, Yarts, honey, be your best self. Be your best self.

00:02:24.680 And then our friend said to us, and she's a therapist, was saying,

00:02:27.840 how about just be yourself?

00:02:31.620 Like, be a better version of yourself.

00:02:33.660 Or like, but not, you know, to say you have to be your best all the time is too much to put on any of us.

00:02:39.720 And this kind of jibes for me with the way you think about doing well and excelling.

00:02:46.720 Yeah, I think it's about being authentic, your authentic and highest version of yourself.

00:02:51.080 And some days, that's not a good place.

00:02:53.800 You might be sad. You might be grieving.

00:02:55.480 You might feel stuck or trapped, which I've felt many times in my life.

00:03:00.080 But not holding back from your true authentic feelings, which I think is really important.

00:03:04.300 So being your authentic and highest version of yourself.

00:03:06.560 And I'm a big believer of constantly being in the process of progressing.

00:03:12.640 And so it's never about being perfect.

00:03:14.360 It's just about saying, hey, what can I learn from the day before?

00:03:17.100 And how can I progress every day?

00:03:19.660 You've helped millions of people with your sort of straight talking advice on how they can get from A to B.

00:03:25.540 How, as I said, you can get off the couch.

00:03:27.440 How you can get off the top of the heap and go even higher.

00:03:32.100 And so we'll get to all of that because I'm fascinated.

00:03:34.520 And I love a lot of what you say, especially about self-doubt and the little voices in your head.

00:03:39.820 But before we get to that, let's talk about you.

00:03:42.400 People have a better understanding of where you come from and how you grew up.

00:03:45.780 It was not without its challenges, your childhood.

00:03:50.740 You were pretty open about the things that came your way and the goodness that was there, too.

00:03:56.240 But tell us about little Louis in Ohio.

00:03:58.880 It was confusing, let's just say that.

00:04:02.860 And I think most people had some type of challenge when they were growing up.

00:04:07.760 I don't know, Megan, if you had the perfect parents or the perfect friends or the perfect life or you believed in yourself every day.

00:04:13.380 But that's not something I had.

00:04:15.060 And I think all of us experienced some type of uncertainty or doubt or questioning.

00:04:20.180 What am I doing here?

00:04:21.540 What's the purpose of all this?

00:04:23.800 Do I matter?

00:04:24.640 Am I going to make anything of myself?

00:04:27.460 I think all of us have had that question at some point or time.

00:04:30.960 There was a lot of beautiful things that happened for me.

00:04:33.160 But the challenging things, I think, were so front and center in my mind and in my memory and in my emotions that it made me feel a little more triggered and reactive in situations in life.

00:04:47.780 But when I was five, I was sexually abused by a man that I didn't know.

00:04:52.080 It was a babysitter's son.

00:04:53.240 He was probably about 16 or 17.

00:04:55.460 And that was one of my first memories.

00:04:57.580 So for 25 years, that was a script, a story, a movie that was playing in my mind that was kind of holding me back in a lot of ways.

00:05:07.780 In certain ways, it was driving me to get results, to succeed, to excel in sports, to become bigger, faster, stronger, so that I felt like I could protect myself from anything happening to me ever again.

00:05:20.180 But in other ways, it closed off my heart.

00:05:22.500 It made me more reactive and triggered.

00:05:24.700 And it made me driven by winning and by results because I thought winning at all costs was greatness, but it was actually more of a selfish thing.

00:05:35.520 That was five.

00:05:36.840 When I was eight, my brother went to prison for four and a half years.

00:05:40.040 He was 18 in college and sold drugs to an undercover cop.

00:05:44.120 And in his first time offense, went to prison, sentenced six to 25 years.

00:05:48.380 He got out in four and a half on good behavior and has transformed his life in a beautiful way since then.

00:05:53.720 But as an eight-year-old, Megan, it was just very confusing.

00:05:56.720 You know, we were going to a prison, visiting room on the weekends, and I was seeing my brother, who was essentially my hero at the time, was an eight-year-old, you know, trapped behind bars.

00:06:09.880 And in this visiting room where we could see him for a couple hours, it was very confusing.

00:06:13.860 So, again, a lot of confusing moments that happened.

00:06:17.240 And during these four years in a small town in Ohio, news travels fast.

00:06:22.060 In the neighborhood, you know, parents wouldn't let their kids hang out with me.

00:06:25.200 So, I just felt kind of like, again, confused, unsure.

00:06:28.100 I felt like people were always picking on me.

00:06:30.080 And I was always in the bottom of my class.

00:06:31.960 I just didn't do well in academics.

00:06:34.840 It was very challenging for me to read and write.

00:06:37.360 When I got to eighth grade, I had a second grade reading level when they tested us.

00:06:41.080 So, I just always felt like I'm not enough.

00:06:44.320 I'm stupid.

00:06:45.220 I'm never going to mount anything in academics.

00:06:48.960 So, let me just focus on sports.

00:06:51.040 And that shaped a lot of my life, being an athlete, being driven to win, because that's where I got validation.

00:06:57.700 That's where I got seen and acknowledged and recognized.

00:07:01.280 But when my career ended at 23, 24, when I got an injury playing arena football, my path to pursuing the NFL,

00:07:09.160 I thought to myself, well, who am I now?

00:07:12.540 Now that my identity is over, I can't go play the sports that I was, you know, good at, that I had my identity tied into,

00:07:21.220 where I got my self-validation and self-worth and confidence.

00:07:24.200 So, if I don't have this, what do I have?

00:07:26.800 And I think a lot of people during these last couple of years, Megan, I know you've talked to a lot of people in this space,

00:07:32.480 are struggling trying to figure out who are they without, you know, going through the divorces now that a lot of people are going through,

00:07:38.420 or going through loss of their loved ones, or going through career loss.

00:07:42.000 I think we're seeing hundreds of thousands of layoffs in the last couple of weeks alone here in America.

00:07:46.260 It's hard to transition into, what am I going to do now?

00:07:50.680 Who am I?

00:07:51.320 Where do I get my value?

00:07:53.580 And how do I keep my confidence high when there's a lot to stress about, when there's a lot of adversity,

00:07:59.520 when there's financial crisis, and there's pain, and sickness, and sadness, and war, and disease?

00:08:05.520 How do we stay in a state of peace, or at least a neutral state of some type of calm when there's a lot of chaos?

00:08:12.520 And I think growing up with a lot of chaos, again, my parents were, did the best they could.

00:08:19.480 They started having, you know, four kids when they were 18.

00:08:22.660 They didn't really understand how to communicate effectively, but they loved us fully.

00:08:27.000 They would, you know, do everything they could to show us love, but they didn't show each other love.

00:08:31.220 And so I just had a bad model growing up, and a lot of different instances that caused stress and pain,

00:08:36.480 where all I wanted to do was become as good as I could, and successful as I could at my athletics,

00:08:43.400 in order to feel like I can protect, and take care of myself, and get validation from that.

00:08:50.600 So once that I was gone, I was trying to figure out, well, who am I again, now at 24, 25, and in my late 20s, and going into 30s, what am I going to do?

00:08:58.720 And I realized, and I know you know this from interviewing a lot of brilliant people as well,

00:09:04.660 that some of the greatest people that I've met, they all had great coaches and mentors.

00:09:09.640 And so that's what I started to do early on, was seek out great mentors from people that I thought had figured some things out

00:09:15.220 to start me down my path of, like, trying to figure out what I was going to do next.

00:09:19.820 And that's kind of where I got started, finding coaches and mentors.

00:09:22.340 Something you said about losing your identity reminded me, recently we had on Dr. Leonard Sachs,

00:09:28.300 who is this really well-respected doctor and guru when it comes to parenting and childhood.

00:09:35.880 And wrote the book, Why Gender Matters, and then has gone on to write all the books about girls and boys,

00:09:41.600 and the collapse of parenting, which he wanted to call the collapse of American parenting, but they wouldn't let him.

00:09:46.220 And one of the things he was saying was, we need to refocus our energy as parents to develop,

00:09:52.740 our job from zero to 18 is to develop good character and values.

00:09:57.100 It's not to develop a resume.

00:10:00.240 And we've switched to, junior's got to have a perfect 4.0, junior's got to be captain of the lacrosse team,

00:10:07.320 junior's got to be the head of 10 clubs, junior's got to go to Harvard or an Ivy League college,

00:10:11.560 or junior's not going to make it in life.

00:10:13.160 And whether willingly or unwillingly, we're telegraphing that to our kids.

00:10:16.680 And then they get there and realize, or they don't either way,

00:10:20.080 but they realize this identity is not fulfilling at all.

00:10:24.500 And we've completely fallen down in the values field.

00:10:28.380 You know, what matters?

00:10:30.180 Family, love, it'll be different for a lot of people,

00:10:32.740 but there are core values, honesty and so on,

00:10:35.800 that you could nurture all along and see how far that could propel the person.

00:10:40.860 It seems like, that's what you're saying, you know, that it could be sports.

00:10:44.240 It could be, you could be doing it to yourself.

00:10:45.640 Your parents could be doing it to you, but it's ultimately quite empty.

00:10:50.540 100%.

00:10:50.860 And I don't know if you've ever felt that way, Megan,

00:10:52.960 but for me, when I was in the sports world, I would set 10, 15 year goals.

00:10:58.600 When I was a kid, I was like, I want to be an all American athlete.

00:11:01.240 I saw football games with my dad on TV,

00:11:03.920 and he'd be celebrating and acknowledging the all American athletes.

00:11:07.160 I'm five, six, seven years old at the time.

00:11:09.300 And I was like, one day I want to be an all American because

00:11:12.000 they're talking about them on TV.

00:11:14.020 My dad's acknowledging them.

00:11:15.260 Okay.

00:11:15.540 That's what I want to be.

00:11:16.700 And I would train so hard in order to accomplish that goal.

00:11:21.620 And I remember when I became an all American, two different sports,

00:11:24.940 I was like angry right after it happened, like 20, 30 minutes after I got like my award.

00:11:31.300 Okay.

00:11:31.520 You're one of the top in the country at this sport.

00:11:33.640 I was happy for a moment and then I was kind of angry and I was a little bit depressed

00:11:37.960 for months afterwards.

00:11:38.980 I wasn't like in a dark hole, but I was just like, why am I not feeling more fulfilled,

00:11:44.440 more loved, more present, more connected, more joyful.

00:11:47.680 I was thinking when I have this thing, then I'll feel something differently.

00:11:53.160 I said, okay, let me get bigger goals.

00:11:55.400 Maybe it's not big enough.

00:11:56.240 Let me go on to the next thing, not even celebrate this.

00:11:58.560 And then it was, okay.

00:12:00.100 And I'm a professional athlete, which was a goal.

00:12:02.140 Then I still wasn't happy.

00:12:03.240 Then it was, well, let me launch a business.

00:12:04.960 Let me hit my first million dollars.

00:12:06.520 None of these things brought me inner peace.

00:12:09.300 They didn't bring me calm and an abundance of joy.

00:12:12.940 It brought me more anger and frustration with myself because I was so critical of what I

00:12:18.900 wasn't doing as opposed to focusing on the good that I was doing and what I was actually

00:12:22.900 overcoming.

00:12:23.960 And I think at the end of the day, I love Megan, you're talking about values because at

00:12:27.720 the end of the day, I think a lot of us want to feel loved.

00:12:31.260 We want to feel seen.

00:12:32.880 We want to feel heard.

00:12:34.720 We want to feel like we're a part of a strong community that shares good morals.

00:12:39.800 I think a lot of us innately want those things.

00:12:42.500 And when I was interviewing Dr. Wendy Suzuki, a psychologist and professor, and I had her

00:12:50.620 on my show, she was talking about, you know, she came from an Asian family, right?

00:12:54.640 Where her parents was all about results, kind of like that was the way she grew up.

00:12:59.280 It was about performance.

00:13:00.820 It was about excellence.

00:13:02.100 It was about results.

00:13:03.420 It was about, you know, now you're the professor and you're getting this award and this degree

00:13:07.700 and all these different things.

00:13:09.220 And she told me, she told me, you know, after 20, 30 years of living this life, I realized

00:13:16.100 the thing that I was missing was my parents never told me they loved me.

00:13:20.980 And we just didn't say those things to each other.

00:13:23.420 We didn't have that type of intimacy and relationship.

00:13:26.260 And this may sound weird saying this on your show.

00:13:28.880 I don't know if this is something you're even open to talking about here, but she was like,

00:13:32.660 all I want to do is tell my parents that I love them.

00:13:36.820 And I hope they, I hope they want to say that to me in return, not just, okay, you did a

00:13:41.580 great job, keep going, you know, get more results, but just that we love each other and

00:13:46.980 kind of the value of love and connection and presence, I think is something that we should

00:13:52.740 be teaching more to each other.

00:13:55.260 How can we look someone in the eyes and connect with them?

00:13:57.580 How can we show, tell people I love you and actually be vulnerable enough to say these

00:14:01.140 things and how can we be present and affectionate with people?

00:14:04.880 And obviously the way they want to receive it as well.

00:14:07.020 But I think she, that was her lesson as a psychologist, a professor, a bestselling author.

00:14:12.260 And, you know, in this culture, she was like, I wish my parents would just say they love me.

00:14:17.600 That's really all I want at the end of the day.

00:14:19.380 And I think that's what a lot of us want is to feel seen, to feel loved and to be acknowledged

00:14:24.860 for the type of character we bring, the type of value we bring beyond the accolades,

00:14:30.200 beyond the success, beyond the, you know, the shows we do or all these different things,

00:14:34.940 the promotions in the career, but also are we being quality human beings with quality

00:14:40.960 character and quality values?

00:14:43.120 And so that's why I love you're talking about values here.

00:14:45.460 Well, when I was listening to you, I was thinking about Hollywood actors who, or it could happen

00:14:50.760 in rock and roll too, but people who think, you know, fame and money are going to make them

00:14:55.300 happy.

00:14:55.960 That'll be the spike the ball in the end zone moment.

00:14:58.520 And then invariably, I mean, with very few exceptions, it either doesn't happen because

00:15:03.940 those are very competitive fields or it happens and they find it's very empty.

00:15:08.160 And this is my belief as to why so many of these people wind up on drugs or alcoholics

00:15:13.940 with several failed marriages.

00:15:15.640 Suicidal.

00:15:16.280 Yeah.

00:15:16.760 Yeah.

00:15:17.120 Very hard to make it to the top of the heap and realize it's awful.

00:15:20.200 Like that's, that's a real bummer, I'm sure, but you, you overcame all this adversity and

00:15:27.360 sort of got to this realization of, you know, okay, I did the NCAA thing and now I've made

00:15:32.900 it in professional sports in one lane and this isn't fulfilling and I'm kind of pissed

00:15:37.080 off and, and you didn't turn to drugs or alcohol.

00:15:40.640 You did such an unusual, but smart thing.

00:15:44.860 Started to talk to smart people with life experience who could mentor you.

00:15:50.900 So no one ever does that.

00:15:52.940 That's not, that's not even a choice on the palette for most people.

00:15:56.820 How did you even think, well, I know what I'll do.

00:15:59.820 I'll just get all this great advice from smart people.

00:16:01.980 I know, well, when I was 20, cause I was 23, my 22, my dad got into a pretty bad car accident

00:16:10.320 where he was on vacation with his, he had gotten divorced.

00:16:13.640 And so he's on vacation with his then new girlfriend at the time and a car he was driving

00:16:19.520 and a car came and crashed into his car, went on top of his car and the bumper of the SUV

00:16:27.020 came to the windshield and hit him in the head, split his head open.

00:16:30.600 And he was in a coma.

00:16:32.020 He got airlifted to the hospital, was in a coma for three months.

00:16:35.180 We didn't know if he was going to live or die.

00:16:37.240 And it was a big wake up call for me in that moment because, um, he was kind of a mentor

00:16:44.180 of mine in a lot of ways.

00:16:45.680 He was, you know, my financial backing.

00:16:48.380 I was in college at the time.

00:16:49.720 He was supporting me financially.

00:16:50.920 He was supporting me, you know, emotionally, mentally.

00:16:53.140 He was teaching me about things and kind of guiding me at that stage of my life when

00:16:57.540 I felt like I needed a lot of wisdom and was going through different things.

00:17:01.220 So I went to pursue my, my dream of playing professional football after this.

00:17:06.500 My dad finally woke up from this coma, but he was never the same.

00:17:12.320 He ended up passing last year.

00:17:14.240 So he lived for 17 years, but he never was the same personality ever again.

00:17:18.480 And I'm not sure if you've ever experienced something like this with a friend or a close

00:17:22.360 family member where they forget your name, they forget what you used to do.

00:17:26.620 They are completely different personality than what you knew them to be.

00:17:30.760 He was physically alive, but emotionally was almost as if he had died that day in the accident

00:17:36.920 and his personality was completely different.

00:17:39.460 So it was just kind of a half grieving period for 17 years and facing this.

00:17:44.900 And so I didn't have him to emotionally, financially support me anymore after college.

00:17:51.620 I had to now figure this out on my own.

00:17:53.620 That's what landed me on my sister's couch.

00:17:55.660 I didn't have any money and she brought me in while I was recovering from a surgery from

00:18:00.440 playing football for about a year and a half.

00:18:03.380 I was recovering, trying to figure out what am I going to do?

00:18:05.780 What's next?

00:18:06.880 Who am I?

00:18:07.460 This was in 2007, 2008 when the economy, it kind of felt like, you know, 2020 in the last

00:18:15.720 couple of years of like, what's happening in the economy, we're not sure.

00:18:19.440 And they weren't hiring people without, you know, with master's degrees at that time.

00:18:23.740 And I didn't even graduate college yet.

00:18:25.940 And so I was just trying to struggle and figuring out what I was going to do.

00:18:29.400 And I remember saying to myself, was an athlete, you know, what got me to the championship

00:18:36.140 level was having great coaches.

00:18:39.020 I didn't get here alone.

00:18:40.540 I had a great teammates, great coaches that pushed me, that guided me and gave me feedback

00:18:44.660 and wisdom.

00:18:45.280 And that picked me up when I made mistakes.

00:18:47.560 And so this is really all I know since academics, I didn't do well.

00:18:51.280 So let me make my life like a sport.

00:18:53.820 Let me find coaches and mentors and guides.

00:18:56.500 Let me model people by reading their books or watching stuff online and find people in person

00:19:01.960 and ask them how they overcame their adversities.

00:19:04.840 And that was kind of the journey starting out.

00:19:06.960 That's what got me into business.

00:19:08.500 That's what got me into overcoming a lot of my fears, because these coaches and guides

00:19:13.100 would ask me questions about what are my biggest fears and insecurities.

00:19:17.900 And they'd say, I want you to make a list.

00:19:19.780 And I want you to go one by one and go all in on these fears, because those are the things

00:19:24.520 that were holding me back, these insecurities.

00:19:26.680 And so I started public speaking every single week at Toastmasters.

00:19:29.620 I started training myself and conditioning myself, you know, like an athlete for public

00:19:35.240 speaking.

00:19:35.620 I started doing many other things that I was afraid to do, and I took them on for my life.

00:19:40.620 And that just allowed me to get more belief and confidence in myself.

00:19:44.480 And Megan, I'm a big believer that self-doubt is the killer of all dreams.

00:19:48.280 I just think it's what holds us back when we doubt ourselves and don't believe we are capable

00:19:53.340 and we don't believe we're enough to do something.

00:19:56.600 We are limited by taking the actions necessary of getting the results.

00:20:00.480 You didn't get to where you're at, Megan, and your incredible career of impacting millions

00:20:04.800 of people constantly by doubting yourself.

00:20:08.420 You did it because you had somewhere a belief or some type of confidence to act, to take

00:20:13.140 an action, which got you to the next stage and the next stage, which now you're one of

00:20:17.520 the top shows in the world.

00:20:18.720 And that doesn't happen because you doubt yourself.

00:20:21.060 And I don't know, did you have a period where you did doubt yourself at one point, but had

00:20:27.500 someone who encouraged you or saw, you know, the masterpiece inside of you or saw the greatness

00:20:33.700 that was potential that could come out of it?

00:20:36.520 Did you ever have that at some point where maybe you did doubt or insecure, but people

00:20:40.560 were supporting you at least to take action?

00:20:42.860 I think I had the gift of a very honest mother and dad who I had for 15 years.

00:20:50.120 And he passed when I was young, but I had like, they never falsely built me up, Lewis.

00:20:54.900 It was like, eh, it's fine, but we love you.

00:20:58.640 You know, like, like they were never doing cartwheels over my, you know, art.

00:21:03.640 I remember one time I got, I had a role in Jack and the Beanstalk when I was little and

00:21:07.280 my parents came and I came off and it was my first, I was like second grade.

00:21:10.180 And my mom said, you really need to learn how to mop with a mop properly or sweep with

00:21:15.320 a broom properly.

00:21:16.280 I'm like, wait, I was just like, what do you, I was Meryl Streep up there.

00:21:20.360 Where's my, but my parents just never, they did not believe in false praise.

00:21:25.400 But when I did something praiseworthy, they gave it.

00:21:28.040 And I will say, I think that was one of the best gifts they gave me because I've always

00:21:31.860 had a very good sense of what's real, what I'm actually good at and what I'm not.

00:21:38.000 And so when I started broadcast journalism, I knew I was not good, but I also knew I had

00:21:43.800 the potential to be good, you know?

00:21:45.280 And so I, I didn't actually get it from another.

00:21:47.480 I got it from myself.

00:21:48.880 And then when people would encourage me, I remember my first boss, Bill Lord said, what

00:21:55.360 you don't have, I can teach you what you have.

00:21:59.000 I can't teach.

00:22:00.540 And, and that stayed with me to this day because I was like, I also believe that I think I've

00:22:05.160 got certain gifts that'll make me really good at this job that I wouldn't have had, if

00:22:09.580 I had gone on to do any number of other jobs after I was a lawyer, you know, I knew I wouldn't

00:22:14.060 have, you know, so I chose well because my parents gave me that gift.

00:22:19.080 That's beautiful.

00:22:19.760 I love that you said that you believed in yourself.

00:22:22.740 I want to share a quick story about this because when I was in eighth grade, I was, you

00:22:28.060 know, always watching and I was playing basketball.

00:22:29.820 I was watching kind of the varsity basketball team at the high school I was going to go to.

00:22:33.740 And there was this one guy who looked like, you know, the most incredible athlete I've

00:22:40.520 ever seen.

00:22:41.080 And to this day, I still think he's probably one of the greatest athletes I've ever seen.

00:22:43.960 I mean, he could do, he could jump as high as anyone could ever jump.

00:22:47.560 He could 360 dunk.

00:22:48.760 He could do anything on the basketball court at will during practice.

00:22:53.400 But when he got in the game, it's like he played, you know, a half version of what

00:23:00.340 he was capable of every time.

00:23:01.640 It's like he didn't believe in himself and everyone around him was like, you're incredible.

00:23:06.260 You're the best.

00:23:07.080 You're, you know, you're a freak of nature athlete.

00:23:09.440 You can do anything at will.

00:23:10.740 You can score at any time.

00:23:12.280 But he didn't believe he could.

00:23:14.340 And so he would do it in practice, but in the games, he would always fall short.

00:23:17.240 And I was like, just give me a fraction of your talent, please.

00:23:21.280 Because, you know, it didn't matter if the world is against you or doesn't believe in

00:23:26.980 you, if you can believe in yourself, then you can do great things like you've done,

00:23:31.280 Megan.

00:23:31.560 But here's, here's the, the sad thing is that it doesn't matter if, if, if you don't

00:23:37.960 believe in yourself and the world does believe in you, you're not going to be able to do

00:23:41.000 it.

00:23:41.160 So we must get the, either the encouragement from others to put it into ourselves, or we

00:23:45.340 must take it from within and put it outward.

00:23:48.140 But you, you had encouraging parents, but you also were encouraged internally, which

00:23:52.140 I think was powerful.

00:23:53.520 You're so right.

00:23:54.460 And I know in your book, you mentioned Jason Redman, uh, who was injured gravely and shot

00:23:59.740 through the eye and put up the sign on the outside, like, do not come in here.

00:24:03.740 If it's to feel sorry for me, this is a positive place.

00:24:06.660 He believed he could recover.

00:24:08.840 He defined what that would mean for him.

00:24:11.620 And I met him years and years ago is like 2009 or 10 at a Navy SEALs benefit.

00:24:16.860 And I, that's like, that's what the SEALs say, say, I can't say, I can't like they, their

00:24:23.380 whole mentality is the more you tell me, I can't do it.

00:24:26.600 The more I guarantee you, I can, that's, that's who's attracted to the SEALs.

00:24:31.580 That's the kind of mentality that the SEALs organization is attracted to.

00:24:35.260 It's one of the reasons the SEALs are so incredible.

00:24:37.720 They've got the thing that you're saying is the magic, but not everybody has it.

00:24:43.880 And it's gettable just because if you're not a SEAL, you don't have the mentality, say,

00:24:48.800 I can't, it's gettable.

00:24:50.240 That's kind of the main theme of your book.

00:24:52.380 And it kind of helps people figure out how do I get it?

00:24:56.060 Yeah, there, there are three main causes of self-doubt in my opinion, from kind of all

00:25:00.140 the, the, the people that I've studied and all the experts and all the world-class athletes

00:25:04.680 and the billionaires, you know, a lot of people that, you know, as well, there's, there's

00:25:07.860 three main fears, uh, that causes people to really hold back from taking action on what

00:25:14.560 they want, whether it's in the relationship with a career or launching the business or

00:25:18.300 whatever it is that they feel inside they're called to do, but they're afraid there are

00:25:22.940 three main fears that cause them to doubt themselves.

00:25:25.020 The first fear, which is a lot of people have is the fear of failure.

00:25:28.440 And as an athlete, Megan, growing up, I, I learned quickly that failure was just the

00:25:34.560 path to success.

00:25:36.060 It was just, this is the necessary steps you got to take.

00:25:38.640 You're going to miss the shot when you shoot it.

00:25:40.240 You're going to, you're going to drop a ball when you're trying to play football.

00:25:42.660 It's just going to happen.

00:25:44.160 And this is information.

00:25:45.520 It's feedback telling you what you need to do to improve, to accomplish your goals.

00:25:49.700 So I understood that from coaches that taught me this, but a lot of people are just afraid

00:25:54.560 of failure.

00:25:56.000 And so they won't take the actions.

00:25:57.540 That was never my fear.

00:25:58.740 I had another one.

00:25:59.500 The second fear is the fear of success.

00:26:03.040 I always wanted to succeed, Megan.

00:26:05.100 I wasn't, that wasn't my fear.

00:26:06.440 I was like, I want to be someone.

00:26:08.280 I want to make something of myself because I didn't love myself enough.

00:26:11.880 So I felt like I needed something externally to fill it internally what I was missing.

00:26:16.440 So I was like driven by success and I love to get closer to it and accomplish it.

00:26:22.720 But as I started to do this research really over the last 10 years of, of my

00:26:27.500 show and interviewing people, I realized that so many people are afraid of success.

00:26:32.880 And when I'll speak in public and I'll ask people who here is afraid of success, most

00:26:37.320 of the room raises their hand, maybe like 67%.

00:26:40.700 And it always kind of blows me away.

00:26:42.540 But the more I studied this, it makes sense because there was a documentary, Megan, called

00:26:47.840 The Weight of Gold, which is about Olympic gold medalists who go through, you know, depression,

00:26:56.540 anxiety.

00:26:57.200 They go through overdosing, they get on drugs or committing suicide within, you know, six

00:27:03.580 to 12 months after winning the Olympic gold medal.

00:27:06.980 There is a pressure to success that a lot of people aren't prepared for and they haven't

00:27:12.060 been taught how to manage.

00:27:13.580 There is, I'm sure you've experienced this in different levels when you became more well

00:27:18.680 known, more famous, more financially successful.

00:27:21.160 Um, there might've been people trying to pull you down or maybe people saying, Hey, from

00:27:26.940 high school or college saying, Hey, I need some money or can you help me out here?

00:27:30.520 There are different things that might happen to us as we become more successful where people

00:27:35.460 doubt us.

00:27:36.180 They try to pull us back down to their comfort level.

00:27:38.500 They criticize us.

00:27:39.980 You're just more available to that criticism and people don't like it.

00:27:43.700 It's uncomfortable.

00:27:44.440 It can be lonely at the top, people say.

00:27:46.840 So I understand that fear that holds people back, but I just didn't, it wasn't a normal

00:27:52.440 fear of mine.

00:27:53.180 My fear was a third fear, which is the fear of judgment.

00:27:56.880 I cared so deeply for so long about what people would say about me, about what people would

00:28:02.620 think about me, about what they were saying behind my back, in front of me, you know,

00:28:06.980 reviews online, all these different things.

00:28:09.000 I was so worried that I felt like I needed to put on a projection of confidence, put on a

00:28:16.480 projection of perfection.

00:28:18.740 And anytime that I was being criticized or judged, it's almost like I would give in my

00:28:25.740 authenticness.

00:28:26.660 We're going back to the beginning of this episode, my authenticness.

00:28:29.680 I would give in to please others.

00:28:31.960 I would say, Oh, no, I didn't mean it that way.

00:28:34.680 This is what I really meant.

00:28:35.540 I would kind of justify something.

00:28:36.880 I would try to, you know, help people when they were trying to, you know, attack me.

00:28:40.900 I would do whatever I could to get people to like me.

00:28:43.160 And I had to learn this the hard way about 10 years ago, that that is just an exhausting

00:28:47.740 game.

00:28:49.040 And at the core of all three of these fears, the fear of failure, success, and judgment,

00:28:54.680 there's a little center.

00:28:56.180 They all kind of intersect.

00:28:57.800 And it's, I am not enough at the core.

00:29:00.660 I'm not pretty enough.

00:29:01.620 I'm not talented enough, smart enough, worthy enough, lovable enough, whatever it might be.

00:29:06.720 There's something inside that says, I'm not enough.

00:29:09.300 That causes us to have one of those fears, doubt ourselves.

00:29:14.500 And that's one of the reasons why we don't take these actions in our life.

00:29:17.300 We don't have the courage to act.

00:29:19.700 Even when others are doubting us, we don't have the courage sometimes.

00:29:23.080 And when we can get it to the core of why we don't feel enough and we can reflect and

00:29:30.480 really start to, I call it mend those, those painful memories or heal or whatever you want

00:29:37.620 to call it, where you're creating a new story about the things that cause you to feel I'm

00:29:42.120 not enough.

00:29:43.200 That's when you can start to have the power back.

00:29:45.580 That's when you can start to empower yourself in taking action to at least trying something

00:29:50.780 that you want to do.

00:29:51.560 When we have that calling, I want to try this.

00:29:54.040 Most people don't put themselves out there.

00:29:56.620 And so that's what I want to give people is the tools that I wish I could have learned

00:30:01.080 20 years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago for myself to end a lot of pain and suffering

00:30:07.520 internally.

00:30:07.980 And I think when we can get to that place of inner peace, at least around our past, maybe

00:30:13.960 we're not going to find peace in the present with what's happening around us and the different

00:30:17.860 pains in the moment.

00:30:19.320 But I believe when we are constantly reliving a pain or being defined by a pain or a big trauma

00:30:27.980 or a little trauma or a belief from our past in our present, it can hurt us in ways and

00:30:35.380 hurt others in ways that we can't even imagine.

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00:31:08.240 Advice.

00:31:12.680 Everybody has some childhood pain or trauma, and it's very severe in some cases.

00:31:17.380 It's not, it didn't happen.

00:31:18.960 I'm fine.

00:31:19.700 You know, I'm good.

00:31:20.320 Kissing the bicep.

00:31:21.560 It's creating a new story around it.

00:31:23.800 Can you give an example of that?

00:31:25.040 What does that look like?

00:31:27.500 Yeah.

00:31:27.900 I mean, you know, I started opening up 10 years ago about being sexually abused when

00:31:33.700 I was five, right?

00:31:34.380 I've talked about it many times.

00:31:35.780 And part of me doesn't like to talk about it anymore because what I do as a way to show

00:31:40.740 men that you can heal from these traumas.

00:31:43.700 And I still feel like men still don't feel like they have a safe space with a friend or,

00:31:48.040 you know, a mentor or a family member where they can just talk about the shames and insecurities

00:31:52.740 from their past.

00:31:53.580 And I think when we have shame or guilt inside of us, it becomes poisonous.

00:31:59.200 It just becomes toxic.

00:32:00.460 And we've got to learn to get it out, whether it's journaling or talking to a confidant or

00:32:04.540 someone that we really trust or some type of counselor to support us in overcoming that.

00:32:09.620 I'll tell you, I'll tell you a quick story.

00:32:11.420 I got a text last night.

00:32:14.060 I'm just going to say this because this just happened.

00:32:15.540 I got a text last night from Scott Budnick, who is a guy who was a producer of a lot of

00:32:21.940 big Hollywood movies, but now he goes into prisons and helps men really try to transform

00:32:28.420 and heal in the different prisons from a lot of men who've done really bad things.

00:32:33.060 A lot of murderers and people have done some bad things.

00:32:35.340 He tries to go in there and help them recover, help them heal.

00:32:38.460 And he sent me a message that says, it was a photo of a six-page letter.

00:32:45.820 And he said, here's a six-page letter from Pelican Bay State Prison from a 21-year-old

00:32:51.460 who has been in solitary confinement for two years.

00:32:55.340 He had a swastika tattooed on his chest when I met him.

00:32:59.260 He dropped out of the white gang.

00:33:01.820 And I asked him why he dropped out of the gang.

00:33:04.460 He said, Lewis Howes and the Mask of Masculinity.

00:33:07.260 And there's a whole letter that he has here that he took a screenshot and sent to me of,

00:33:13.640 I did a speech to the prisons in America about men having a safe space to open up.

00:33:22.520 And again, they don't have to speak about it publicly or whatever it might be, but allowing

00:33:26.440 men to communicate the different emotional wounds that caused them to be so angry in the

00:33:31.800 first place, that caused them to want to join a game, that caused them to want to murder,

00:33:34.820 that caused them to want to rape, that caused them to want to vandalize, that caused them

00:33:38.760 to break these values that you talked about, these moral and values that I believe a lot

00:33:43.420 of people are struggling with these days.

00:33:45.500 And I've struggled with in the past myself.

00:33:47.760 No way am I a perfect human being.

00:33:50.500 And I did a speech talking about my previous book, The Mask of Masculinity.

00:33:55.820 These masks that we wear as men to protect ourselves, to project confidence, a false identity,

00:34:03.240 a false self to the world so that we can feel like we belong, we fit in and are accepted.

00:34:09.500 And a lot of times that we do that is because we don't belong, fit in or accept ourselves.

00:34:13.920 We don't fully accept the different things we've gone through in the past.

00:34:17.940 And it is extremely challenging, I think, for men specifically to face these different things

00:34:24.100 where we feel a lot of shame and guilt and insecurity.

00:34:26.820 So to answer your question, for 25 years, I held on to this anger around being sexually

00:34:34.980 abused because there was an abuse.

00:34:37.680 I'm not a victim, but there was a victimizing thing that occurred.

00:34:41.800 And so there was something that occurred that shouldn't have happened.

00:34:44.580 And it did.

00:34:46.460 And it caused me a lot of resentment, a lot of anger and frustration for 25 years.

00:34:50.720 I didn't tell a soul, Megan, until 25 years.

00:34:53.700 So about 10 years ago, I started to talk about it.

00:34:56.960 And once I talked about it to family and a couple of friends, I thought, okay, my life

00:35:04.340 is over.

00:35:05.060 They're never going to speak to me.

00:35:06.280 They're not going to love me anymore.

00:35:07.440 They're not going to accept me.

00:35:08.380 They're going to want to push me away.

00:35:10.500 My life is over.

00:35:11.460 But I also thought to myself, I can't live with this poison inside of me anymore, this

00:35:15.800 shame, this guilt anymore.

00:35:17.580 And I'd rather be alone and emotionally free than living with a mask on and hiding different

00:35:24.840 things about me because I'm afraid that they won't accept me.

00:35:28.560 And so I started a process of asking some trusted advisors about how to address this and share

00:35:35.440 this and open up with the people I cared about in my life because I wanted them to know.

00:35:38.960 And when I started to do this process, it was a beautiful experience because what I was

00:35:46.800 most afraid of, them pushing me away, it actually brought us closer.

00:35:51.380 My siblings actually opened up about things that I didn't know about them.

00:35:55.360 We connected.

00:35:56.380 We started the healing process.

00:35:58.540 And it was a beautiful experience, but very scary to do at first.

00:36:01.580 So instead of saying this person abused me and therefore everyone abuses me and to be,

00:36:09.180 you know, emotionally reactive at every moment in life, because that's the way I was responding.

00:36:13.340 I was kind of responding like everyone's out to get me and take advantage of me.

00:36:16.480 And no one, I can't trust anyone, all these things because this happened.

00:36:21.300 And many other things happened, not in sexual abuse, but that identified this story and this

00:36:26.720 belief that I'm going to be taken advantage of.

00:36:29.860 So I had to create new meaning around this.

00:36:32.580 I had to really heal and reconnect with that identity, that five-year-old boy and start to

00:36:40.620 stay and have compassion for that version of myself and say, Hey, listen, you know, this

00:36:46.040 might be a little weird, but having a conversation with my five-year-old self saying, you know, listen,

00:36:49.720 I know you went through this hard time and I'm so grateful that you got us here to this

00:36:53.420 place in our life because now I care deeply about helping others.

00:36:58.000 I care deeply about helping men and women heal.

00:37:01.460 I care deeply about service and impact.

00:37:03.740 I care deeply about empowering people and lifting them up.

00:37:06.800 And if that didn't happen, maybe I wouldn't care this deeply and have this much compassion.

00:37:11.380 So it's having a different relationship and telling a different story and creating meaning

00:37:15.900 around it.

00:37:16.480 You know, uh, Edith Egger, I'm not sure if you're familiar with her, but she was an Auschwitz.

00:37:21.500 She's got an amazing book called The Gift, which is all about finding meaning.

00:37:26.960 It's incredible.

00:37:28.860 She can be happy.

00:37:31.060 Any of us can be happy.

00:37:33.120 Exactly.

00:37:33.820 And she, you know, she was, uh, her, her mentor was Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning.

00:37:39.920 And, uh, she talks about when I had her on, I'm not sure if you've interviewed her, but

00:37:43.680 she's incredible.

00:37:44.400 You should have her on if you haven't yet.

00:37:45.700 I said, how did you find peace?

00:37:49.460 Like after, and she told the story about she, she had to forgive herself because I don't

00:37:56.100 know if you know the story about it, but the, uh, the person who killed her parents came

00:38:00.520 up to her in the concentration camp and said, is this your mother or your sister?

00:38:06.920 Um, asking this to Edith.

00:38:08.380 And she said, that's my mom.

00:38:09.680 And so the, the officer took her mom and her dad into the chamber and they died shortly

00:38:16.900 after that.

00:38:17.720 And all she had to do was say, this was my sister and lie.

00:38:21.460 And her mom could have stayed alive.

00:38:23.660 And so can you imagine the shame, the guilt, the pain that you would face with these memories?

00:38:29.840 And she said, I had to face the person that did this to me.

00:38:34.320 I had to go back to Auschwitz and face it and have a new experience and process and heal.

00:38:42.820 Um, now I'm not saying you need to go face the people that have done wrong by you in your

00:38:47.180 life.

00:38:47.440 That's not what I'm saying, but you need to learn how to face it internally with yourself

00:38:51.200 and have a conversation with someone that you trust to be able to process these things.

00:38:55.080 And if she can do this and she can live a long, peaceful, happy, fulfilling life after

00:39:00.680 witnessing so many people that she loved die from the most at Auschwitz, when Goebbels was there,

00:39:08.580 he was making her dance for him.

00:39:10.600 I mean, it was the darkest kind of thing you can imagine.

00:39:14.100 And one of the things I remember from her book is whenever she does a public speaking event,

00:39:18.660 she started by kicking her leg straight up above her head because she was a dancer.

00:39:23.780 Um, and she, here she is in her nineties, like kicking the leg up.

00:39:27.480 And it is inspirational because if you can find joy after what she's been through, then

00:39:34.520 it's, it's hope for the rest of us.

00:39:35.780 My, my friend, Alison Barklitch, who I, we did a feature on her son, Blake, who died

00:39:39.700 suddenly at age 17, just this past October, a year ago, October, she gave it to me because

00:39:46.360 I asked her cause she's joyful.

00:39:48.280 And I said, Alison, how are you like this?

00:39:50.300 How can you keep Blake just died?

00:39:52.760 It hadn't even been a year when we did the piece was over the summer.

00:39:55.360 We did it and she said, read this book and that that's when I read it.

00:39:59.200 So it was relatively recent, but there, there is inspiration from people who have always

00:40:02.900 suffered worse than you have, no matter how bad you have it.

00:40:05.620 And you can find a path forward in their lane.

00:40:07.820 Maybe you can just draft behind, do something similar.

00:40:10.960 Um, I think what you said about like the, like the fear of failure can almost be harder

00:40:16.040 though.

00:40:16.400 It can almost be harder.

00:40:17.300 The fear of failure, like there's so much judgment put around it and we are not built

00:40:21.940 to want to embrace failure at all, especially as Americans, you know, we're like winners.

00:40:27.400 And I realized that Asian culture is very much like be perfect, but American Jew is like

00:40:30.940 win, win, win.

00:40:32.520 And it, it, um, one of the stories in your book really spoke to me about Sarah Blakely.

00:40:37.480 I love, I love it.

00:40:38.880 I know Sarah a little bit.

00:40:40.360 And of course she should definitely get the Nobel peace prize for inventing Spanx, but I didn't

00:40:44.200 know this story.

00:40:44.800 Right, right.

00:40:48.020 She's great.

00:40:48.760 You know, the, yeah, the story about how, you know, her father growing up at dinner,

00:40:52.280 she would at the dinner table every night, he would say, what did you fail at today?

00:40:55.960 And she would, and he would celebrate her failure of the day.

00:40:59.320 It could be something silly or smaller or big and encouraging her to fail, encourages

00:41:04.620 her to try with her full heart without the shame of failure.

00:41:10.660 And I think that's why for me as an athlete, it wasn't like a bad thing to fail.

00:41:15.520 It was just like, okay, but did you give your all?

00:41:18.600 And that was really more of a failure.

00:41:21.140 If you didn't give a full effort, that was something to feel bad about.

00:41:25.360 Cause you know, you had more in the tank, you had more energy to get, you could have

00:41:29.340 dove for that ball.

00:41:30.160 You could have, you laid out, you could have hustled more, but you were lazy.

00:41:34.800 That was a worse of a failure than actually losing.

00:41:37.560 And so I could be, you know, still bummed that I would lose in a game, but if I knew,

00:41:43.460 man, I'd give it everything, then it was a victory.

00:41:46.700 It was a success.

00:41:47.500 And the person was just better than me for this day.

00:41:49.540 And now I have information on what I need to do better for the next time.

00:41:53.840 So I think if we, I'm not a sports person, but you are, and I know your sport was football.

00:41:58.640 So walk me through this.

00:41:59.960 Cause I, I, this is, I don't think I've ever even tried to do a sports analogy before,

00:42:03.360 but I did watch both of those games, those playoff games.

00:42:05.880 Um, yes, you know, the other day and, um, there was one in which there was that one

00:42:10.840 Philadelphia Eagle who he did, he made that amazing catch.

00:42:15.040 It was like the fingertips.

00:42:16.900 You couldn't believe it.

00:42:18.040 There was that guy.

00:42:19.400 And then in the next game, there was that Kansas city chief who wouldn't have gotten the first

00:42:25.140 down.

00:42:25.500 If you remember he reached across, it's like, if that, like it was like that, these guys

00:42:30.440 are pros who would never settle for just good enough.

00:42:36.020 Look at them in the biggest stakes games, going the extra few inches to make all the difference.

00:42:43.380 Even I, as a non-sports person was inspired, Louis.

00:42:48.340 It's, it's inspiring.

00:42:49.280 I'll give you, here's a beautiful story.

00:42:50.440 This is a full circle moment.

00:42:51.740 Uh, the head coach of the Eagles, he's got a great story.

00:42:55.120 Second year hedge coach.

00:42:56.140 His name's Nick Sirianni.

00:42:58.280 Now, most people don't know this about him.

00:43:00.540 He was, uh, he played division three football.

00:43:03.560 So there's, there's really three main divisions in, in, in college football, one, two, and three,

00:43:08.520 three is you're not as good as one.

00:43:11.260 So I played division three football, smaller times football.

00:43:14.720 And, um, so did he, he was a wide receiver.

00:43:19.020 I was a wide receiver.

00:43:20.440 He was a, um, a national champion at Mount union college.

00:43:24.660 That was in the same conference that I was in, uh, at capital, uh, capital university in

00:43:28.980 Columbus, Ohio.

00:43:30.040 And when, when I was a senior in college, he was a defensive backs coach.

00:43:35.000 So I was a wide receiver.

00:43:36.340 He was the coach at Mount union.

00:43:38.720 My last college football game that I played, they, um, were the previous national champions.

00:43:46.200 We were in the playoffs.

00:43:47.840 I was playing against his defensive backs.

00:43:51.020 I broke a school record.

00:43:52.180 I had three touchdowns and I tore apart his entire defense.

00:43:56.900 Now I should have been happy, but they won the game.

00:44:00.960 They won by like three points in the last minute.

00:44:03.080 And then two games later, they won the national championship.

00:44:06.160 So his team stopped my chances and my dreams of being a national champion.

00:44:11.300 So even though I beat his defense pretty well, he ended up winning a ring in the national

00:44:16.000 championship.

00:44:16.860 Now I, I was bummed that we lost.

00:44:20.200 I was, I was sad because I gave it my full effort, but I also know I gave him my full effort

00:44:25.880 and there was nothing else I could have done.

00:44:27.640 There was other factors out of play.

00:44:28.860 Just like a lot of people said, the rest were horrible in some of these games.

00:44:32.540 Sometimes there are other factors out of play.

00:44:34.860 But when you can look yourself in the mirror at the end of the day and say, I did best

00:44:39.740 I could do with what I had in this moment, then I feel like that's a big victory.

00:44:43.460 And I think a lot of people discount their efforts and the gifts they bring when they

00:44:48.320 lose.

00:44:49.340 They say, man, they make it all, but they blame themselves too much.

00:44:53.340 And I think that's not a good thing.

00:44:55.060 We are not very good, at least Americans.

00:44:58.040 I don't think we're very good at being positive self coaches.

00:45:00.920 We're really good at being negative self critics to each other.

00:45:05.440 And I think it can drive us to working hard and getting results and, you know, all these

00:45:10.120 different things.

00:45:11.060 But at the end of the day, if we can never even celebrate a moment of the effort of the

00:45:16.200 good of the, the inspiration we bring in our careers and our day-to-day lives, then I

00:45:21.960 think we're missing the point.

00:45:22.900 If we're just driven by results and winning, listen, I want to win.

00:45:26.580 I want to, you know, grow.

00:45:28.220 I want to do all these things.

00:45:29.260 It's fun for me.

00:45:30.480 But if I put my entire self worth only in winning only in results and not also in being a good

00:45:38.120 valued human being, like you talked about in the beginning, being generous with people,

00:45:42.560 being present with people, just smiling and bringing a little bit of joy every now and

00:45:47.200 then to the people that I'm, you know, around or strangers and trying to lighten the mood.

00:45:52.000 Again, like we talked about, there's so much pain, stress, overwhelm and suffering in people's

00:45:58.000 lives in almost every area of life.

00:46:01.060 And I think as humans, we should try to focus on how can I improve the quality of my life

00:46:07.620 to be a little bit more joyful.

00:46:09.780 It doesn't have to be our best self every moment and fake, but how can I improve?

00:46:15.100 And I don't think we can truly feel fulfilled and improve authentically without going back and

00:46:22.980 telling different stories and finding meaning from the things that cause us to be stressed,

00:46:28.820 overwhelmed, and feel like we're not enough today.

00:46:32.220 And that's why for me, it always starts with mending and creating different meaning that

00:46:37.740 actually encourages you now and for your future self from the different things that hurt us in

00:46:42.860 our past.

00:46:43.340 And I know a lot of men don't like to talk like this or like to think like this.

00:46:47.080 They just say, suck it up.

00:46:48.020 This was my whole upbringing in sports.

00:46:50.640 Suck it up.

00:46:51.560 You're not in pain.

00:46:53.000 Play through the pain.

00:46:54.340 Don't talk about your feelings or emotions.

00:46:56.620 And I think there's a way you can do it authentically where it serves and supports you and then also

00:47:01.480 empowers and uplifts other people around you.

00:47:03.860 I'm picturing like, you know, Patrick Mahomes out there like,

00:47:07.060 it really does hurt a lot, but I'm going to play through it.

00:47:09.420 I'm good.

00:47:09.620 There's obviously a time and a place.

00:47:13.300 There's a time and a place when you're on the field of battle or you're a Navy SEAL.

00:47:16.500 You maybe can't talk about these things in the field of battle or when it's life or death.

00:47:22.200 But I think it's in the moments in between sport and in between actual battle where you

00:47:27.680 can reflect and create meaning from those places.

00:47:30.800 When it's life or death, literally, you've got to toughen up and you've got to do whatever it takes.

00:47:34.720 But there's also a lot of time where it's not a life and death that we live.

00:47:39.580 And if we're living like it's life and death constantly, we're just going to be disconnected

00:47:43.440 from people.

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00:48:13.460 Investments.

00:48:14.140 Advice.

00:48:18.880 So I get the fear of failure.

00:48:20.920 And there's a great story in your book about you.

00:48:22.600 You talk about the public speaking.

00:48:23.740 You do it every day.

00:48:25.340 You talking to girls and how you challenge yourself one summer.

00:48:29.300 This is great because I have two little boys in addition to a girl.

00:48:31.900 And you challenge yourself one summer.

00:48:33.140 Every day I'm going to talk to a girl.

00:48:34.680 I don't care.

00:48:35.220 I'm just going to do it.

00:48:35.980 It's going to be one day.

00:48:37.320 And by the end, you know, like a little Rico Suave, you got it.

00:48:41.320 You had it down.

00:48:41.960 So that's, I like that advice.

00:48:43.260 That's good.

00:48:44.260 The fear of success reminded me of something.

00:48:47.520 Okay.

00:48:48.180 I'd like to talk about it more because I used to work at Fox News.

00:48:51.940 Brit Hume was my boss.

00:48:53.000 He was my mentor for many years.

00:48:54.520 And he retired when I was sort of, I don't know, late in my tenure at Fox.

00:48:58.960 He retired and it was sad.

00:49:00.400 And he said he wanted to focus on three things.

00:49:02.320 God, golf, and grandkids.

00:49:05.980 But I know that there was some piece of him because he'd been so hard charging as a reporter,

00:49:10.360 ABC News, White House correspondent back in the years of Peter Jennings and, you know,

00:49:14.560 Reagan.

00:49:15.060 I mean, at the peak of that job.

00:49:16.680 And just so, so well-respected and so accomplished.

00:49:20.000 And I didn't know what to get him for his retirement.

00:49:22.580 So I gave him a picture of the two of us.

00:49:25.420 One of the, it was the 2008 Republican National Convention and it was out in Minnesota, St. Paul,

00:49:29.840 Minnesota.

00:49:30.120 And we went to the Mall of America and we went, Brett, Bear, Brit Hume and I went on

00:49:36.500 the roller coaster there together.

00:49:38.020 You know, it's the indoor roller coaster in the huge mall.

00:49:40.020 Yeah.

00:49:40.440 There's a great picture.

00:49:41.560 You know, one of those pictures they get of you or you're like, ah.

00:49:43.940 You're screaming.

00:49:44.720 You're like, ah, yeah.

00:49:45.660 Totally.

00:49:46.120 And you got to see Brit Hume in this picture.

00:49:47.600 It's a great picture.

00:49:48.100 And I framed it and I wrote on it, um, sometimes the best part is after the climb, you know,

00:49:56.560 like that's what he was going to.

00:49:58.100 It was not like leaving success behind.

00:50:00.600 It was going from one success to a different kind.

00:50:04.100 That's beautiful.

00:50:05.320 And I think, um, you know, the main part for me is figuring out what is our meaningful mission

00:50:10.020 for this season.

00:50:11.240 And it sounds like for, I don't know, many decades, he had a mission.

00:50:14.440 He was very clear on his mission.

00:50:15.960 He was working to become better at his mission every single day and to impact lives with his

00:50:21.100 reporting and, uh, his unique talent.

00:50:24.060 And then his mission ended and he had a new season, which was God golf and grant and grandkids.

00:50:31.180 And I think a lot of people don't know what their meaningful mission is, or they chase

00:50:36.700 the wrong mission because they feel like it's supposed to help them or make them feel good

00:50:40.840 about themselves, but it's not what's calling them.

00:50:43.600 And I think that's interesting about your story, Megan, is you're like, there was something

00:50:48.360 calling me.

00:50:49.020 You were able to listen and reflect and you're like, maybe I'm not the best at this thing

00:50:53.620 yet, but it's calling me because I'm really curious and interested in it.

00:50:57.080 And I think I could be good.

00:50:58.660 And you had that, that voice inside of you, that listening, that pulling you into the direction

00:51:03.480 that you have now.

00:51:04.220 And if you didn't listen to that voice, or if you listen to someone else's voice, or

00:51:09.480 you did something you felt like your friends are doing because, Oh, this is my girlfriend

00:51:13.480 is doing this thing.

00:51:14.300 And she's telling me and influencing me to do it because it's what she wants.

00:51:17.720 You would have not had the, the, the impact that you've had so far in your life and the

00:51:22.720 career and the, the incredible joy that you've been able to bring to so many people.

00:51:28.240 If you didn't listen to your voice and pursue this current season's meaningful mission, and

00:51:33.780 you're exactly where you're meant to be.

00:51:36.020 And because it's, it's, I don't know, I know there's hard days and it's challenging at times,

00:51:40.000 but it's, it looks effortless when you do it, right?

00:51:44.000 You look effortless because you are talented and gifted and you have years of practice, right?

00:51:50.420 Um, and a lot of people aren't clear on their meaningful mission.

00:51:53.020 And when we, you know, when you ask a Navy SEAL, when you don't have a mission, what are

00:51:57.940 you doing?

00:51:58.560 It's like, when there's no mission, people become more destructive or when they leave

00:52:03.120 the military and they don't get a mission quickly, it's kind of like, you know, what

00:52:08.160 do I do?

00:52:08.780 What do I do with my hands?

00:52:09.640 Where do I go?

00:52:10.280 What do you know?

00:52:10.580 What am I supposed to do with my life?

00:52:12.460 And it's, that's why I love, there's so many good programs out there that are helping,

00:52:15.880 you know, vets try to get back into a good mission for their lives, because if they don't

00:52:20.720 have that, they're going to struggle.

00:52:22.380 Just like all of us.

00:52:23.620 I struggled after college football and after pro football when I was like, who am I?

00:52:27.940 Now what's my identity?

00:52:28.800 What am I going to do?

00:52:29.580 And I was kind of twiddling my thumbs for a while until I got a new mission, but I had

00:52:33.300 to listen to the voice inside of me and overcome these fears.

00:52:36.580 Public speaking was one of them because I knew that if I cannot communicate effectively in

00:52:41.340 front of other people, whether it be a boardroom, uh, whether it be a small audience of three

00:52:46.400 people or 30,000 people, I'm probably not going to have anything meaningful in my life.

00:52:52.040 If I can't just communicate to a couple of people.

00:52:54.980 And that was my biggest judgment fear at the time.

00:52:59.140 So this was on my fear list.

00:53:01.300 Edith Edgar talks about creating a fearless as well.

00:53:03.960 She says, make a fearless and knock them off your list and you'll become fearless.

00:53:08.700 You'll become more powerful when you overcome those things.

00:53:11.640 And I just knew that I couldn't stand in front of anyone without stuttering, stumbling, or being

00:53:17.840 insecure about what they were thinking about me.

00:53:20.420 And so that's why I went every single week for a year and I got a coach and I practiced and I was

00:53:24.980 horrible for six months.

00:53:27.100 It was humiliating how bad I was, but I just kept going and saying one day, this is going to get

00:53:32.200 better.

00:53:32.660 And I could see the improvements little, it wasn't a lot, but a little bit every week.

00:53:37.080 And those improvements gave me a little bit more confidence.

00:53:39.940 And so I think when we can create a list of our biggest fears that cause us to doubt ourselves,

00:53:46.220 that cause us to feel judgment or insecurity, and we can start attacking those things, that

00:53:52.140 will give us a lot more confidence in ourselves.

00:53:54.860 Then we can get clear on what our meaningful mission is.

00:53:57.540 At that time, I was like, I just want to get off my sister's couch and make enough money

00:54:00.700 to get my own apartment.

00:54:01.880 That was my mission.

00:54:02.700 I couldn't think beyond that.

00:54:04.740 But once I started to make some money, then I was like, okay, what do I really want?

00:54:09.960 I want to impact 100 million people.

00:54:12.060 Okay.

00:54:12.440 I want to impact them every single week.

00:54:13.800 And I want to help them improve the quality of their life.

00:54:16.840 And I want to do that through what I think I'm decent at, which I'm just a curious person.

00:54:21.720 So let me try asking questions.

00:54:23.880 And I didn't know where it would head, but I was like, let me try this.

00:54:26.940 Let me do it for a year, every single week for a year.

00:54:29.180 And that's what started my journey.

00:54:31.440 Last week was my 10-year anniversary of my show.

00:54:34.040 And I wasn't that good in the beginning.

00:54:35.760 But every week, I just said, how can I improve a little bit every single time and try to help

00:54:39.820 more people?

00:54:40.820 And so when I got clear on my mission, Megan, it became, it became, oh, go ahead.

00:54:46.060 I was just going to say, mission accomplished, because you nailed it.

00:54:48.760 I mean, the show's numbers are just astronomical.

00:54:51.560 So clearly, you got there.

00:54:54.120 Well, it's not there, because it's 100 million lives weekly.

00:54:56.880 We only hit 250 million people last year, total, in terms of like long-form engagement,

00:55:02.860 you know, like a 20-minute engagement from a listener review.

00:55:06.060 And so for me, it's how do we get 100 million lives weekly?

00:55:08.780 And so here's the thing.

00:55:10.160 It's having a mission big enough that excites me when things are challenging and tough and

00:55:14.560 hard, because there's days that aren't always perfect.

00:55:17.080 And so they get me excited every day to kind of get up and say, all right, I'm nowhere.

00:55:21.600 Who do I need to become in this process of actually accomplishing that mission or being

00:55:25.260 on that path?

00:55:26.200 And it may never happen.

00:55:28.160 And that's OK, too.

00:55:29.280 I've learned that this may never happen.

00:55:31.920 I had a dream about being an Olympian, Megan.

00:55:34.780 And I moved to New York City.

00:55:36.660 This was part of one of my fears and my dreams.

00:55:38.960 I moved to New York City in 2010.

00:55:43.940 And I joined the USA.

00:55:46.020 I joined a team for a sport called team handball that is an Olympic sport.

00:55:51.440 It's very well.

00:55:52.720 It's unknown in America.

00:55:54.240 The reason I joined this team was because there's not much competition.

00:55:57.580 So I said, where can I find a sport where there aren't a lot of people playing it and

00:56:02.040 try to make the Olympics?

00:56:03.180 That was my whole goal.

00:56:04.160 But I found this sport while I was watching the 2008 Olympics when I was in my cast, recovering

00:56:11.260 from a surgery on my sister's couch, a little bit down and out.

00:56:14.900 And I saw this sport at like 3 a.m. on TV watching the Olympics.

00:56:19.820 And I go, where's the sport been my whole life?

00:56:21.820 I started researching about it.

00:56:23.060 I tried to find a local club or a way to play it.

00:56:25.720 And there was nothing in Ohio that had handball.

00:56:28.440 And I saw that there was a club in New York City.

00:56:30.460 So I said, when I make enough money, I'm going to move to New York City.

00:56:32.580 It was a few years later.

00:56:33.680 I moved there.

00:56:35.680 A year after I moved there, I'm playing with the team every single week, the New York City

00:56:40.080 handball team.

00:56:42.040 And I'm learning from these guys.

00:56:44.380 Within a year, I make the USA national team.

00:56:47.440 And the whole time I'm saying to myself, my vision is to be an Olympian and to go to the

00:56:52.340 Olympics.

00:56:52.760 For eight years, Megan, I trained.

00:56:56.320 I traveled around the world with the USA national team from Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Mexico,

00:57:01.900 Canada, Israel, the UK, you name it.

00:57:04.540 I flew everywhere to pursue this dream of being an Olympian.

00:57:09.680 And the dream did not come true.

00:57:13.400 But the journey of who I became, what I learned, the experiences I had, the people I met, the

00:57:21.560 victories we did have, those were a dream come true.

00:57:25.820 So even though the goal, the mission did not get accomplished the way that I envisioned,

00:57:31.980 the process, the lessons, the magic, the friendship, the challenges I had to overcome was a dream come

00:57:40.700 true. And I think a lot of people, I used to beat myself up if I didn't accomplish my goals.

00:57:46.860 Now I really embrace and say, you know what?

00:57:49.740 Sometimes it just doesn't happen the way we envision.

00:57:53.320 And if we beat ourselves up, what is that doing for us?

00:57:56.560 It does nothing for me.

00:57:58.400 Instead, why don't they create meaning from that season?

00:58:01.520 Those eight years create a different meaning.

00:58:04.260 Okay, man, what a journey.

00:58:06.900 What a beautiful experience.

00:58:08.760 I met so many amazing people.

00:58:11.160 I got to wear the USA across my chest and sing the national anthem against Olympic teams,

00:58:18.640 against the Brazilian national team, against the Israeli national team, against the

00:58:22.240 Argentina national team, Chilean national team, Mexico national team.

00:58:26.220 I get to compete against Olympians and represent my country.

00:58:30.940 It was an incredible dream come true.

00:58:33.940 But the dream didn't get accomplished, right?

00:58:37.360 And so there's just different ways to look at it.

00:58:40.320 And I'm grateful for the lessons and the journey.

00:58:43.720 Let me ask you this.

00:58:44.840 One of the people you talked to is Joel Osteen, who's so full of wisdom.

00:58:48.700 My goodness.

00:58:49.620 Whenever you listen to him, you just get drawn in before you know it.

00:58:52.080 An hour's gone.

00:58:52.760 You're like, wow, that's amazing.

00:58:54.220 It's amazing.

00:58:55.020 But he spoke to, in the book, to the third fear that you zeroed in on, which is that fear

00:58:59.020 of judgment, which you just mentioned as well, that fear of perfection.

00:59:01.280 And I'm thinking about it in the context of the story you just told.

00:59:04.720 Like, I would imagine a lot of guys thinking about becoming an Olympic handball team member.

00:59:11.340 The second voice would be like, you can't.

00:59:14.000 You don't know how to play handball.

00:59:15.780 You just saw it on TV.

00:59:17.600 Don't be a dumbass.

00:59:18.920 That's a that's not a realistic goal.

00:59:21.180 That's stupid.

00:59:21.740 Yeah.

00:59:22.280 Right.

00:59:22.640 That voice is in there either from you or from your critics.

00:59:25.200 Um, and I can relate to this in a way I'll get to in a second, but I love the quotes

00:59:31.020 from here.

00:59:31.360 So this is an excerpt from your book.

00:59:32.760 You say, here's the truth.

00:59:34.600 People will judge you no matter what you do.

00:59:36.740 So you might as well go for your dreams and do the thing you love the most.

00:59:40.020 I asked Joel Osteen, pastor of the largest congregation in America, televangelist and author

00:59:44.240 based in Houston, how he overcomes the tendency to feel insecure about what others think.

00:59:48.700 And he says, you can't reach your destiny without people being against you.

00:59:53.180 But some people are not going to understand you.

00:59:57.160 They don't want to understand you.

01:00:00.240 Sometimes we spend time and energy trying to convince somebody to like us and they're

01:00:04.960 never going to like us.

01:00:08.300 And that's OK.

01:00:10.180 Stay focused on your race.

01:00:13.260 And so what I've been good at, this is Joel still, and what I encourage other people to

01:00:17.100 do is to tune out the negativity and run your race.

01:00:21.880 Because I love that people, they're not going to like us.

01:00:25.720 And no matter how perfect we may be or what efforts we make to avoid their harsh judgment,

01:00:32.260 they're not going to like us and they don't want to.

01:00:36.740 Exactly.

01:00:37.860 And I'm guilty of that.

01:00:39.940 Most of my life, I wanted people to like me.

01:00:42.560 And I was trying to say, what can I do to get them to like me and understand me?

01:00:45.920 And it was a losing battle because it didn't matter how much I tried and gave and wanted

01:00:51.920 them to.

01:00:52.680 That was my fear and insecurity, the fear of judgment.

01:00:55.140 And I think I had to learn that the hard way many times as I started kind of building my

01:01:00.700 audience and my business and my brand and all these things that, man, this is, you know,

01:01:06.200 exhausting when you're focusing on all the negativity as opposed to just focusing on the

01:01:11.220 mission that you have, what you can do to improve, taking the feedback for what it is and saying,

01:01:16.840 okay, maybe there's some true feedback there.

01:01:18.540 And I do get to improve here and there, but not letting it affect you and hold you back.

01:01:22.660 And there's this kind of great meme online of, I think it's Michael Phelps and like the

01:01:29.860 second place person in one of the Olympics, one of his, you know, 50 Olympics that he was

01:01:34.580 in, um, where there's like this quote that says, winners focus on winning losers focus

01:01:42.040 on winners.

01:01:43.520 And it's kind of like a cheeky thing, but shows Michael Phelps focused on the finish line

01:01:49.520 as he's swimming.

01:01:51.620 And it shows kind of the person right behind him, like looking over at him as they're getting

01:01:56.660 close to finish, as opposed to just focusing on his race.

01:02:00.980 And I think it's just a good analogy that a lot of times people are so, um, focused on

01:02:07.140 what other people are thinking about them in their race, or they're focused on other

01:02:10.040 people completely.

01:02:10.840 And they're not working on their race that it just holds us back.

01:02:13.660 And I think Joel's a great example of this because he's probably someone who has been

01:02:17.820 criticized and his religion and his faith and his congregation in the country the most

01:02:23.980 because he's the biggest.

01:02:24.980 So he has the, probably the biggest target and the most to worry about from people criticizing

01:02:29.840 him and I'm like, dude, how do you do this?

01:02:31.700 And he's like, I just focus on living my mission, focus on service, focus on giving, focus on

01:02:37.220 improving myself.

01:02:38.520 And I think that's what we all should be doing as well.

01:02:41.620 So this, I, I have my own experience here that I'm living right now.

01:02:48.040 Really?

01:02:48.580 Tell me.

01:02:49.060 I, when I was coming up the ranks as a reporter, as a news anchor, uh, and sort of the bigger

01:02:55.060 job I got, the more criticism I would receive, the more newspaper articles, that kind of

01:02:59.820 thing, picking apart every word.

01:03:01.160 And I was very worried about what people were writing about me because I really felt like

01:03:07.120 my career depended on it.

01:03:08.580 You know, I was in the public eye and if they were all going to write terrible things, my

01:03:12.840 career go away.

01:03:13.580 And I loved my career and I didn't want it to go away.

01:03:16.160 And in my industry, that means to some extent, appeasing the left because the left controls

01:03:22.340 all of media, not to make this political, you don't have to go there, but I'm just going

01:03:24.860 to explain my own experience.

01:03:26.620 But that's, it must, it has to mean that because the media is controlled by liberals.

01:03:31.700 And, um, it's not like I ever took a position I didn't actually feel, but I knew if I had

01:03:36.360 gone too far over on saying something that would appeal to conservatives, I get hit by

01:03:40.260 the left.

01:03:40.940 And it was just a constant stressor.

01:03:42.820 It was a constant stressor.

01:03:44.080 Whereas if you said something that appealed to the left, they'd celebrate you.

01:03:46.980 You know, I was like, I didn't need their accolades, but I don't want them on my

01:03:49.660 back all the time.

01:03:50.420 And then, right, then I went to NBC and the left just completely decided that they hated

01:03:56.760 my guts.

01:03:57.640 I had made up with Trump.

01:03:59.140 I was at a left-wing news organization.

01:04:01.240 So now I was like, oh, she's the farthest thing right we have.

01:04:03.940 So we're against her.

01:04:05.280 And it was just a shit storm piling down.

01:04:07.960 And then ultimately my, I ended my time there under very traumatic circumstances for me as

01:04:12.640 a professional.

01:04:13.120 And I, I realized these people, not all the left, but these sort of wokesters who are love

01:04:19.220 cancel culture on the left.

01:04:20.420 These are not honest brokers to whom am I trying to appeal?

01:04:26.260 Not them.

01:04:27.840 They are, they're not on my side.

01:04:29.940 They're not on the side of the things I value that I have no interest in appeasing these people

01:04:34.480 or doing anything to my own behavior to curry favor with them.

01:04:38.920 Nothing.

01:04:39.260 And I sat there on my couch, on my couch, Lewis, in those, you know, year plus I had off.

01:04:46.100 And I looked at people and I know people mock me, but they shouldn't because he's great.

01:04:50.320 I looked at people like Piers Morgan.

01:04:52.080 Who was just saying whatever he wanted.

01:04:57.260 He didn't care what third rail he touched.

01:04:59.500 Ben Shapiro.

01:05:00.080 Another example.

01:05:00.760 Now you'd look at Joe Rogan and say the same.

01:05:02.760 Tucker Carlson.

01:05:03.500 Another.

01:05:03.720 And I really admired them.

01:05:06.220 And I realized now they're, they're considered so controversial because they say these things,

01:05:09.160 of course, that the left doesn't like, but I said, I'm inspired by them.

01:05:12.520 They don't care what judgment is put on them.

01:05:16.000 They they're just authentic and say how they really see it.

01:05:19.140 And I said, that's how I want to be.

01:05:21.060 I want to be more like that and let go of these chains.

01:05:24.240 I've put on myself in the name of appeasing who, who again.

01:05:27.860 Right.

01:05:28.120 So, and I'm, I'm there.

01:05:30.020 Like I, I finally found the ability to do that.

01:05:33.480 I finally found the ability to not care or at least to not let what's the remnants of the caring

01:05:39.860 stop me from doing what I want to do and saying what I want to say.

01:05:44.700 Yeah, that's beautiful.

01:05:46.420 I think there's a, there's some type of, I can't remember who said this, but there's

01:05:49.900 a saying or a quote that it's like, um, it's something worse than, than winning is winning

01:05:59.940 at the wrong things.

01:06:01.500 It's like worse to win at the wrong things.

01:06:04.840 And when we are, when we're living an inauthentic life, because we're afraid of certain things,

01:06:10.940 but it's doing well, or it's succeeding.

01:06:13.360 It's like, but are we truly authentic?

01:06:15.740 Are we truly living our values?

01:06:17.620 Which again, you talked about this, going back to kind of the whole beginning of this

01:06:20.940 conversation is living with our values and our authenticity.

01:06:25.280 And I think, um, you know, to go back to the beginning of this beginning of this part of

01:06:30.100 this conversation about success and fame, you know, Jim Carrey has a great quote where he

01:06:36.540 said something like, I'm paraphrasing and I hope everyone becomes rich and famous and they

01:06:40.820 can realize it's not, you know, you can't find happiness in that or something around

01:06:45.360 that.

01:06:45.560 He's like, I hope everyone can become rich and famous and realize this is not the key

01:06:48.840 to success.

01:06:49.500 This is not what it's all about.

01:06:51.520 And living an authentic life is what it's all about.

01:06:55.020 Um, and I, and I'm, again, I'm not speaking about opinions of what people say or not, but

01:07:00.640 I love that Piers Morgan and Ben Shapiro, that they live an authentic life, whether you like

01:07:06.020 them or not, they feel, they look like they're free to me to say what they want without being

01:07:11.600 worried about what other people are doing or responding.

01:07:14.780 And I think that's powerful.

01:07:16.220 And again, as long as it's not hurting people or, yeah, go ahead.

01:07:20.760 So they had the advantage.

01:07:23.260 Up here is his politics are unpredictable, but he knows who he is.

01:07:26.940 He knows what they are.

01:07:28.400 Ben Shapiro, lifelong conservative.

01:07:30.440 You know, he was Alex P.

01:07:31.520 Keaton.

01:07:32.020 He's living that life.

01:07:32.980 It's very clear.

01:07:34.000 I'm talking about their politics, which drives what they do professionally.

01:07:37.360 Me, I'm not really an ideological person and I'm still not.

01:07:41.040 I have my strong opinions, but I'm not ideological.

01:07:42.960 So I would say it was somewhat tougher for me to just sort of see this is where I am.

01:07:47.500 I have to figure it out issue by issue.

01:07:49.040 And this leads me to my next big question, which is for the people who don't have like,

01:07:54.560 what if they don't know what the mindful mission is?

01:07:58.280 They don't have the burning, like, ah, look at the handball or like me.

01:08:03.400 I want to try the journalism and I know I can do it.

01:08:05.260 If they're like, I just feel kind of listless and depressed in my current job, current marriage

01:08:11.300 or by what, I don't know what to do.

01:08:13.880 How do I find that thing that you and I are talking about?

01:08:17.400 There's a beautiful, uh, I, one of my first interviews I did for my show was with Robert

01:08:23.480 Green, the writer.

01:08:24.680 He wrote a book called The 48 Laws of Power.

01:08:26.720 He wrote, um, you know, I think he has five New York Times bestselling books.

01:08:32.940 Um, he wrote a book called Mastery.

01:08:35.480 He's done an amazing job over the last, you know, 15, 20 years as a writer.

01:08:38.820 And he did many different things as a writer.

01:08:43.900 He came to Hollywood.

01:08:45.300 He tried TV script writing.

01:08:46.900 He didn't like that.

01:08:47.760 He tried movie writing and screen writing.

01:08:49.900 He didn't like that.

01:08:50.600 He tried newspaper writing.

01:08:51.820 He didn't like that.

01:08:52.380 He wrote for magazines.

01:08:53.320 He didn't like that.

01:08:54.740 And nothing.

01:08:55.500 He was like, ah, I think I want to be a writer, but none of these avenues are really working

01:09:00.360 and they don't bring me a lot of joy.

01:09:02.940 But then he said, I have this idea for this book and no one was interested in it.

01:09:06.560 This weird kind of conceptual book called The 48 Laws of Power that was written in a weird,

01:09:12.100 unique way.

01:09:12.840 When you open the book and you read, it's kind of structured differently than old books.

01:09:17.060 Um, and he's like, I have this idea and people were against it.

01:09:20.020 People were like, no, it's not going to work.

01:09:21.580 It's weird.

01:09:22.200 Publishers went into it.

01:09:23.580 He got someone to get it to believe in him and ended up writing this book that became

01:09:27.160 a massive, massive hit.

01:09:29.860 I don't know how many reviews.

01:09:31.100 It's probably got a hundred thousand five-star reviews on Amazon.

01:09:33.660 It just keeps selling every day like crazy.

01:09:36.700 And he said, it was the combination of trying all these different things that I thought maybe

01:09:42.640 I'd be interested in and really realizing I wasn't and then shifting to the next thing.

01:09:47.540 And it said it took him a long time.

01:09:49.620 This took many, many years until he figured out his unique thing, which was kind of these

01:09:54.840 different packaged style books, these kind of nonfiction books in a certain way that are

01:10:02.480 now exactly where he's supposed to be.

01:10:05.740 And I didn't know that I would be, you know, doing an interview show at 30 years old.

01:10:11.680 That's not what I thought I'd be doing when I was younger, but it was all the different

01:10:16.740 things that I did from sports and like being so curious about how to be great as an athlete

01:10:23.260 and loving when I would have great coaches teaching me and the philosophy of goal setting

01:10:28.740 and hard work and teamwork and community and, and, uh, picking your brother up when they fall

01:10:34.400 down and kind of this, this, this value system I learned from sports then into online marketing,

01:10:40.720 which I, which I liked, but it wasn't like my thing that I felt called to do, but it

01:10:45.400 was an experience for five years where I learned about online marketing and, and building an

01:10:50.520 audience and, and, and public speaking and selling and webinars and kind of all these

01:10:55.120 different things that I learned how to do over the next five years, which brought me to a

01:11:00.540 different chapter, a different season where I was like, okay, I'm not sure what I want to

01:11:04.620 do next, but what am I most curious about?

01:11:07.340 And it kind of brings me to the, the answer to the question, which is figuring out your

01:11:11.440 sweet spot between these three things that I call the three P's.

01:11:15.040 And the first one is the passion, the things that you're curious about.

01:11:18.400 Maybe this is where you find some of your talents, your unique gifts, the things that you're just

01:11:23.020 interested in and you're, you're, you're reflecting on what those things are.

01:11:28.320 And if you're not even sure you could ask your friends or family member, Hey, what are my

01:11:31.700 unique talents?

01:11:32.320 Because I didn't think asking questions was something I could ever get paid for Megan.

01:11:35.880 I don't know if that's what you thought getting into this, but I was like, I'm curious about

01:11:41.060 asking questions to people, but how am I going to make money doing this?

01:11:44.720 Right.

01:11:45.500 And I think you have to kind of forego this, figuring out the answer, how you're going

01:11:49.620 to make money.

01:11:50.280 But I was like, okay, I was bottom of my class in school.

01:11:53.640 It took me seven years to finish college.

01:11:55.760 And I like to ask dumb questions.

01:11:57.960 I don't know if that's a talent or not, but let's run with it.

01:12:01.480 Lots of people go to college for seven years.

01:12:05.620 I know they're called doctors.

01:12:08.160 But this was an undergrad.

01:12:10.880 This was seven years just to finish an undergrad as this is my bachelor's.

01:12:15.220 So I was like, okay, I don't have skills or talents is what my thinking.

01:12:19.500 So how am I going to make a living doing this?

01:12:21.900 But I was like, let me try this for one year and see, cause I'm curious about it.

01:12:25.900 Let me like, just try it.

01:12:26.980 And if it fails, at least I tried and I can move on to the next thing.

01:12:30.140 And that's what I think people want something to be perfect when they launch it.

01:12:34.000 And they want it to like make money or like get to the top of their career right away.

01:12:37.660 And I think you just got to be willing to explore it for a small season or a chapter and see if

01:12:42.300 you even like it and improve it along the way.

01:12:44.880 So that was, that was, that's step one is figuring out what your, your passion is, or at least

01:12:48.900 things you're curious about.

01:12:50.380 And figuring it out, like a failure on that route or a wrong turn is not a setback.

01:12:54.860 That's actually a step toward the goal.

01:12:59.100 100%.

01:12:59.460 At least you know what you don't want to do.

01:13:01.060 Again, Robert Greene was like, okay, I tried the TV writing thing.

01:13:04.480 I don't want to do that.

01:13:05.360 I tried the magazine writing thing.

01:13:06.780 I don't like that either.

01:13:07.620 I tried script writing for movies.

01:13:09.240 That wasn't my jam, but maybe this unique book thing works for me.

01:13:13.480 So let me try that.

01:13:14.360 So it's like, you got to try a number of things sometimes until you get clear on what it is

01:13:18.580 you do want to do.

01:13:19.960 So that's the passion.

01:13:21.200 The power is the second P in figuring out kind of your meaningful mission.

01:13:24.940 The power is, again, what are the things that you feel like are your superpowers?

01:13:31.040 What can you really lean into the most?

01:13:33.280 These are the superpowers that you could get a job with right now that you could launch something

01:13:37.580 with right now.

01:13:38.360 Again, if you are a great speaker already, then maybe there's a path in speaking or some

01:13:43.000 type of stage presence, things like that.

01:13:45.220 But also with the power for me, I think it's just as equally important to figure out not

01:13:49.300 only your superpowers, but also the things that make you feel powerless.

01:13:53.560 And this is where I went through this fear list and saying, okay, there's a number of

01:13:57.460 things that hold you back from stepping into your meaningful mission too.

01:14:01.380 And when you can figure out the things that make you feel powerless and start just knocking

01:14:05.500 them off your list by going all in on them one at a time, then you're gaining so much

01:14:10.880 confidence on this kind of tool belt that you have as a human being.

01:14:14.120 You can whip out this new skill that you overcame.

01:14:18.660 And when we overcome the thing that we are most afraid of, it amplifies our confidence

01:14:26.220 to a whole nother level.

01:14:27.540 It gives us so much more courage because we say to ourselves, wow, this thing has been

01:14:31.720 holding me back my whole life.

01:14:32.960 I just overcame it.

01:14:34.520 I can take on anything now, right?

01:14:36.900 So it's a superpower that comes from there.

01:14:38.680 Um, and that's the, uh, that's the second thing is really the passion, the power.

01:14:44.540 And then I think as human beings, we should be trying to solve problems.

01:14:49.160 And so the third thing is figuring out the P the problem that you want to solve.

01:14:53.800 And my friend, Rory Baden says that we are perfectly positioned to help the person we once

01:14:59.460 were and the person we overcame.

01:15:01.940 So if we, you know, if you once were 50 pounds overweight and you learned how to overcome

01:15:08.540 that weight and you got better and healthier and you reversed a disease that you had, then

01:15:13.200 you're perfectly positioned to maybe help someone who's struggling with their weight.

01:15:16.640 If you, you know, learned how to be a public speaker and you were once afraid of speaking

01:15:21.200 in public, then you're perfectly positioned to help people who are afraid and they need to

01:15:25.840 figure out how to overcome that fear.

01:15:27.820 And so it's figuring out the problems we want to solve.

01:15:30.180 And so for me, it's, it's, it's trying to find other people that want to impact a hundred

01:15:35.080 million lives weekly and want to use their talents to do that.

01:15:38.660 So when you can get clear on kind of navigating these three P's, your passions, these are your

01:15:43.880 unique interests, your, your, your power, which is like your talents and your gifts.

01:15:47.780 And also the things that you want to overcome that make you feel powerless and making them

01:15:53.340 more powerful.

01:15:53.860 And then the problem you want to solve, then I think you can start to say, all right, well,

01:15:58.480 here's an avenue I can try.

01:16:00.440 And once you start trying it and you get clear that this is the path, then you can create

01:16:05.360 a meaningful mission around that.

01:16:06.740 For me, that doesn't mean it's going to solve all your problems and life is going to be easy

01:16:11.180 and it's going to be effortless.

01:16:13.260 It's actually when all the work really begins and all the obstacles are going to be facing

01:16:17.740 even more now, but at least you're going to have a clearer direction and something you

01:16:22.480 can measure along the way.

01:16:24.260 And again, I think when we are directionless is when bad things happen to us is when we

01:16:30.840 get the scraps of life is when we start to do bad things or just do things that are out

01:16:35.680 of our values.

01:16:36.760 And that's why it's really important to get clear on our meaningful mission.

01:16:40.260 Yeah.

01:16:40.360 Like that, like you said, like those seals who come home from battle, they need a mission

01:16:43.580 and we're kind of the same.

01:16:45.040 To go back to your, your colleague who retired, right?

01:16:47.420 He had a meaningful mission for how many decades he was doing the career and it served him

01:16:52.140 and he served people that were consuming his information and he used his talents, he used

01:16:57.380 his power and he was solving problems and he was right in his sweet spot for a season.

01:17:03.020 Then it came his time.

01:17:04.460 He goes, I've done everything.

01:17:05.740 I've interviewed everyone.

01:17:06.800 I, you know, I've, I've, I've done the thing for so long.

01:17:10.320 It's no longer of interest to me.

01:17:13.340 Um, and now I have God, golf and grandkids.

01:17:17.020 And, and I think that's okay too.

01:17:19.240 It's like we, as an athlete, I know you don't, I know you're not big in the sports analogies,

01:17:24.380 Megan, but I'm just going to give it to you.

01:17:25.540 Cause this is what I know as an athlete, there's, uh, you know, the preseason, the season, the

01:17:33.260 playoffs, and then you've got the post season, just like the four seasons of life, you know,

01:17:38.240 of, of, of a year, the fall, summer, spring, winter, there's four different seasons of sports.

01:17:44.540 And in the post season, the off season, you have a few months to reflect on the last nine

01:17:52.420 months of training, preparing games, playoffs, all that stuff, and how you performed and how

01:17:57.600 you, you know, it could have done better.

01:17:59.760 Then there's a period of recovery.

01:18:01.460 You get to reflect and say, do I want to go play again?

01:18:05.900 Do I want to go make this my mission for the next season?

01:18:08.680 And I think we all have those opportunities every year to say, is this the right path that

01:18:12.680 I want to continue to stay on?

01:18:13.960 Or is there something new I want to do?

01:18:15.880 And it's always okay to say, you know what?

01:18:18.040 I had a great season.

01:18:19.300 It's time to find something new.

01:18:20.660 That's cool too.

01:18:21.240 Canada Life, insurance, investments,

01:18:50.800 advice.

01:18:54.640 I think if you're struggling to get that, you know, to get the passion, like what is it?

01:18:59.880 And you're saying, cast a wide net, try a bunch of stuff, you know, don't be afraid of failing

01:19:03.460 and all that.

01:19:04.420 I also think, go back to the thing we discussed earlier about looking at some of those traumas

01:19:11.380 that you, you know, trauma is like so overused and it's been stigmatized.

01:19:14.740 And I have helped stigmatize it because I'm sick of hearing about fake trauma that these people

01:19:18.600 don't actually have, but there are real traumas in everybody's past.

01:19:23.600 And if you haven't dealt with yours, it can come back to haunt you and it can create a

01:19:28.240 depression that is very hard to get past.

01:19:30.780 And if you are depressed, if you really are just blue a lot, very hard to identify your

01:19:37.220 passion.

01:19:37.800 You know, nothing's coming to you.

01:19:39.920 There's a deadening that would make you just feel like I, I don't have it.

01:19:44.180 I'm not one of those people.

01:19:45.220 I don't, can't pass the line, can't do any.

01:19:47.480 And so there does have to be some work.

01:19:49.620 If you're not feeling anything, if you're not like, if you're like, I don't know what

01:19:52.440 I enjoy.

01:19:53.240 I have no idea what stimulates me.

01:19:54.960 Nothing.

01:19:55.240 You know, some work needs to be done, uh, you know, just to shore up some unwellness

01:20:01.480 or some holes, whatever, uh, that could, that are short.

01:20:05.420 Yeah.

01:20:05.820 There's, I mean, there's really, there's really three main things that I think you can

01:20:09.300 do to get you out of, uh, a state of mental depression, depression, or any type of anxiety

01:20:16.700 or overwhelm or any of these type of emotional or mental states.

01:20:20.680 And I think the first one is taking care of your health.

01:20:22.960 Number one, I think when you focus on, and I think a lot of people are, are, can be too

01:20:28.620 giving sometimes to everyone else that they deplete their own energy and they create zero

01:20:33.480 boundaries where I think your number one priority should be taking care of your health first.

01:20:37.900 So then you can take care of number two, which is to be of service and to figure out how you

01:20:43.400 can serve abundantly and generously with an open heart, obviously discerningly in the

01:20:49.140 right scenarios and not just giving unconditionally, but discerningly with an open heart.

01:20:54.000 And I think the first one, if you're feeling overwhelmed or stressed or anxious, or even

01:20:57.660 a little depressed or, or, or sick mentally or emotionally, you want to find someone to

01:21:03.180 support you in the process.

01:21:05.100 Cause I just think it's really hard doing it all on ourselves and doing it alone all the

01:21:08.640 time.

01:21:08.860 I just think it's really hard to get out of feeling depressed on your own.

01:21:12.920 It's almost near impossible on your own, find support, find people that you can, that coach

01:21:18.260 you, guide you, mentor you, priests, whatever it might be, friends, family, therapists, anyone

01:21:22.700 that you feel comfortable getting support with that can give you some type of program of

01:21:27.560 accountability and action.

01:21:30.100 And I think when you focus on, if we move our bodies consistently, it's going to just

01:21:35.100 create chemicals that bring more joy and happiness just from that alone.

01:21:38.940 So if we're laying on the couch all the time and not moving, we're going to feel less energy

01:21:43.620 and energy, positive energy by ourselves.

01:21:45.460 So moving your body and doing something to improve your health is number one.

01:21:49.700 Number two is figuring out how can I give, how can I serve once I give to myself, how

01:21:54.700 can I also be generous and of service that can just be joyful.

01:21:59.720 I don't have to give money or so much time, but how can I be a generous human being of my

01:22:05.440 presence, of my attention and think out of myself, just being a grateful and a giving

01:22:12.380 human being is going to bring you a lot more joy.

01:22:14.840 And then I think the third thing is also focusing on healing.

01:22:18.100 So you've got your health and moving your body, but you've got to heal these different

01:22:21.180 traumas or wounds that cause you to feel depressed.

01:22:23.820 And if you don't face the things that cause you this type of feeling, it's just going to

01:22:29.560 keep coming up.

01:22:30.520 And no matter how much you work out and no matter how much you give, there's still going

01:22:33.780 to be some of that leftover.

01:22:35.520 So that's going to be the third thing to focus on as well.

01:22:38.300 I love that support network, whether it's a spouse, a friend, a parent, a sibling.

01:22:42.960 In my case, I also have my great therapist who I absolutely love.

01:22:46.360 And he's been with me for 12 plus years now.

01:22:48.600 And he'd say, you know, I'd say, well, what, what will people say?

01:22:51.560 You know, what, what if I do this?

01:22:52.620 What would people say?

01:22:53.200 And he, and he'd say, he's got this accent and he'd be like, hmm, they'll say what they

01:22:58.800 say.

01:22:59.560 Let them say this, say whatever.

01:23:01.580 Let me ask you a question, Megan.

01:23:02.700 Woo!

01:23:03.780 Let me, let me ask you a question.

01:23:07.380 You said 12 years with a therapist.

01:23:08.820 Is that right?

01:23:09.420 Yeah.

01:23:10.560 Yeah.

01:23:11.340 Where do you think you'd be without that emotional support of a therapist or that therapist?

01:23:18.260 If you had zero of that emotional coaching or therapist support over 12 years, but you

01:23:24.260 only relied on just kind of friends and family with normal interactions, where do you think

01:23:28.620 you'd be either emotionally, internally, externally, all of it?

01:23:32.560 That's a really good question.

01:23:34.140 I would not still be in this industry.

01:23:36.200 Like he helped me build the tools to manage life in an incredibly toxic industry that is

01:23:43.700 very destructive in many ways.

01:23:46.180 And now, you know, I mean, I've always sort of had this general bent toward optimism.

01:23:50.660 You know, I would say in my news delivery, one of the things people like is I don't depress

01:23:56.880 you.

01:23:57.260 You're not going to leave my hour, even when I was on TV or now, feeling just really down.

01:24:02.580 You're usually going to feel pretty happy.

01:24:04.020 So that's my general bent.

01:24:06.140 But this industry will suck that right out of you if you allow it.

01:24:09.660 And he helped me shore up all those tools to do the thing I just said, you know, like,

01:24:15.240 so let them talk.

01:24:18.200 Let them say your beautiful husband.

01:24:21.420 Go be with your beautiful children and live your beautiful life.

01:24:25.200 You know, like just sort of resetting all the time.

01:24:27.520 And so you if you don't have such a person in your life today with telehealth and you

01:24:32.420 might not get the person you like on the first try, but like there are a lot of ways

01:24:35.980 to be.

01:24:36.760 I was surprised to read and actually preparing for this segment, Lewis, that it was only

01:24:40.140 like 20 percent of the American population is in therapy or has a therapist that they

01:24:44.260 use.

01:24:44.900 I come up to the 80 percent.

01:24:46.840 It is a gift.

01:24:47.700 It's so it can be so helpful if you find the right person.

01:24:51.120 Just wonder if it's been stigmatized or why is the number so low?

01:24:54.960 Oh, I think I think people are talking about a lot more because people are just sharing

01:24:59.900 everything online a lot more about, you know, the things they're going through.

01:25:02.800 But I think, you know, I'll speak for my case as a man growing up in Ohio playing sports,

01:25:09.140 you know, just speaking about your emotions wasn't something you were allowed to do in

01:25:13.160 society, nor was it encouraged.

01:25:15.380 So it's just been a conditioning over many, many decades of, well, this isn't what you do.

01:25:21.720 And I'm sure, you know, women might feel the same thing.

01:25:25.180 But I think as a man, from my personal experience, none of my friends talked about these things.

01:25:29.600 And in fact, when I was in school, if you did talk about something vulnerable, you were

01:25:33.540 made fun of and laughed at or called like a little girl or whatever they wanted to call

01:25:36.860 you.

01:25:37.620 And all you want to do at that stage is fit in, you know, especially if you don't belong

01:25:42.460 and accept yourself, then you want to fit in and be accepted elsewhere.

01:25:46.900 And you start to kind of play into that, that game.

01:25:50.620 So for me, I started doing kind of the emotional healing and therapy about 10 years ago, off

01:25:57.480 and on, I wasn't always doing it, but I was doing it off and on the last two years, I've

01:26:01.100 done it almost every two weeks for two years.

01:26:03.300 And it has brought me so much peace, clarity, and freedom, emotional freedom, to the point

01:26:11.080 where I'm just like, why would I stop doing this when it continues to support me with all

01:26:17.700 the different challenges that are happening around me?

01:26:19.760 It gives me peace.

01:26:20.560 Just like you said, in a toxic environment or an industry, you may not be in anymore if

01:26:24.980 you didn't have these tools.

01:26:25.880 And I always, I'll go back to sports again, when, um, you know, Kobe and Michael Jordan

01:26:31.760 and LeBron and all these guys got to the top and they won the championships.

01:26:36.500 They didn't say to themselves, you know what, coach, I think I got this figured out on my

01:26:42.000 own.

01:26:42.620 I don't need a coach anymore.

01:26:43.780 Like, I'm just going to run the team.

01:26:45.560 I'm going to do my own practice.

01:26:46.820 I'll work myself out all on my own.

01:26:48.820 I'm going to push myself a hundred percent every day.

01:26:51.120 And I think I'm going to make another championship on my own.

01:26:54.280 No, these guys are wise.

01:26:56.840 And they say, how can I actually find more great coaches to add to my team, more support

01:27:02.300 and work on the deficiencies I might have here or there in my game or my, my mental, uh,

01:27:08.380 deficiencies that helped me overcome challenges or insecurities.

01:27:12.320 These guys don't say, I'm going to have less coaches.

01:27:14.920 They say, I'm going to get more great coaches to support me on my mission of winning a championship.

01:27:20.240 And I think it's wise, Megan, when we, you know, we'll get a coach for the gym, we'll

01:27:26.460 get a coach for our careers or our business, but a lot of people won't have an emotional

01:27:30.080 coach or a therapist or some type of person guiding them emotionally.

01:27:34.500 And I just think it's wise to have an emotional coach or a therapist to support you.

01:27:40.220 And you don't have to do it every week or every month, but just having someone when you're

01:27:43.920 feeling like, man, I just feel a little bit off and I want to get back on track.

01:27:47.420 So I have good energy.

01:27:49.380 I think it's wise to invest in it or to find a friend that you really, I just had this

01:27:53.180 discussion today.

01:27:53.880 So my, my therapist, um, we don't have a standing, uh, right now, but I had this weird

01:27:59.060 dream last night that I died of bone cancer.

01:28:00.980 It was very dark.

01:28:01.940 And Abby's like, I'm making you an appointment with Z.

01:28:04.280 That's what we call him.

01:28:04.840 We're getting, you're going back to Z, which by the way, please make me an appointment with

01:28:08.060 Z ASAP because I, I think I do.

01:28:10.020 And also with a dermatologist, she's also a coach to me.

01:28:14.160 That's great.

01:28:14.920 You can take many different looks or listen, let's end it on sort of a forward-looking

01:28:19.120 optimistic note.

01:28:21.200 And I could definitely use some help on this.

01:28:23.120 I have to tell you, define your goals.

01:28:25.680 You, you need, this is from your book, chapter 15, you need to have set goals and the focus

01:28:31.760 and drive to achieve them.

01:28:32.960 Take time to define your goals.

01:28:35.900 I'm like ready to write a little sad face in the, in the margin Lewis, because I'm not

01:28:41.520 very good at this.

01:28:42.300 So why is this important?

01:28:43.940 And what should that look like?

01:28:45.460 You know, like King of the world or like, yeah, I don't know what, I don't even know

01:28:49.500 what it should look like.

01:28:50.260 Cause I really do.

01:28:50.820 Well, let me, let me start with the finding the definition of success versus the greatness.

01:28:59.600 All I wanted growing up was to be successful and success is about accomplishing your own

01:29:07.060 goals and dreams.

01:29:08.140 And there's nothing wrong with success, but I think success by itself can be selfish.

01:29:13.860 And I realized when I would, when I would set and accomplish goals, and I was very good

01:29:19.920 at that, that became a skill of mine was setting and accomplishing goals.

01:29:23.220 I was accomplishing that definition of success and I was making it happen, but I wasn't feeling

01:29:30.760 fulfilled still.

01:29:31.960 And I didn't know why I wasn't still fulfilled or happy to the thought where I was supposed

01:29:36.580 to be happy.

01:29:37.060 It wasn't until 10 years ago, when I started to go through this process of kind of healing

01:29:41.260 and, and, uh, looking at these things differently that I realized I had it all wrong.

01:29:46.420 That success for me was about me winning and other people losing.

01:29:51.240 It was about me being right and other people being wrong.

01:29:54.360 And again, that's a very lonely game.

01:29:57.400 It's a lonely existence in this world.

01:29:59.960 When I started to study greatness and really take a look at myself in the mirror better and

01:30:04.920 say, wow, I've actually got a lot of deficiencies and I've got a lot of imperfections and I've

01:30:09.180 got a lot of insecurities and fears that I get to face and create new meaning and healing

01:30:12.700 around.

01:30:13.060 I said, my whole goals and dreams must include the service of other people in accomplishing

01:30:21.400 them.

01:30:22.460 And I'll tell you what, these last 10 years, a lot has changed because I feel so much more

01:30:28.380 rewarded and fulfilled emotionally, mentally, and spiritually on a daily basis.

01:30:34.820 Again, I'm not a perfect human being, but on a consistent basis, because I'm thinking,

01:30:39.360 how can I set clear conscious goals, greatness goals, which must, if it's about greatness,

01:30:47.940 it must include other people in accomplishing them.

01:30:51.860 So it must include the empowerment of others, lifting them up.

01:30:55.140 It must include being a positive force for good.

01:30:58.500 If I'm winning, then others need to win around me as well.

01:31:02.860 And it's also, it's not a right and wrong game.

01:31:05.400 It's about how can we all be uplifted in the actions that I want to take of accomplishing

01:31:11.460 my dreams and goals.

01:31:12.860 And for me, that's the definition of greatness.

01:31:14.700 It's pursuing your goals and dreams, using your talents in those pursuits and making a

01:31:20.140 positive impact on the people around you.

01:31:21.820 It's not necessarily accomplishing and winning the championships at the highest level or exiting

01:31:27.240 for a billion dollars, although that is fun and great if you do it.

01:31:31.680 But I just truly believe you're not going to feel rewarded and fulfilled emotionally, mentally,

01:31:37.600 and spiritually if you're not including others in that process in a positive way.

01:31:42.840 So that's the way I look at it.

01:31:43.960 So this is evidence of your time doing the School of Greatness, where you've interviewed

01:31:48.780 so many great thinkers from Jordan Peterson.

01:31:53.360 So many examples.

01:31:54.380 I was going down the list.

01:31:55.140 I was like, wow, David Goggins.

01:31:56.540 But the one that what you just said reminded me of is Kobe Bryant.

01:32:00.160 And you're so lucky that you got to talk to him before his untimely death.

01:32:04.600 And we pulled just a little bit about it, which holds beautifully in what you just said.

01:32:08.180 Here it is from 2018.

01:32:09.300 The final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

01:32:14.880 I think the definition of greatness is to inspire the people next to you.

01:32:19.500 I think that's what greatness is or should be.

01:32:22.000 It's not something that lives and dies with one person.

01:32:27.520 It's how can you inspire a person to then in turn inspire another person that then inspires

01:32:32.140 another person.

01:32:33.400 And that's how you create something that I think lasts forever.

01:32:35.560 And I think that's our challenge as people is to figure out how our story can impact others

01:32:43.340 and motivate them in a way to create their own greatness.

01:32:46.260 Oh, my God.

01:32:47.240 I have the chills.

01:32:48.600 That is like, oh, it's so spot on.

01:32:51.500 And I'm so glad you got that for us before he passed.

01:32:54.580 And little did he know, of course, he lived that.

01:32:57.820 He lived that exact thing he was saying one should do.

01:33:00.820 And it is why he's considered great, despite personal foibles that he had.

01:33:05.760 We all have them.

01:33:07.760 What a soundbite.

01:33:09.220 Looking back on that now, that must mean a lot to you.

01:33:13.340 Again, it was one of my favorite interviews I had before his passing.

01:33:18.580 I was just like, because he talked about love.

01:33:20.900 He talked about family.

01:33:21.880 He talked about impact.

01:33:23.220 He talked about telling better stories.

01:33:24.880 And I was like, wow, I was seeing a side of him that I hadn't seen from his playing days.

01:33:30.420 And specifically his definition, I was just like, yeah, it's about the ripple you make

01:33:34.600 on the people around you.

01:33:36.220 And it's about how they feel your love.

01:33:38.540 He talked about love a lot in this episode.

01:33:40.700 And I was like, huh, I'm used to hearing great athletes talk about winning and success

01:33:44.780 and championships at all costs.

01:33:46.320 But he was like, it's about love.

01:33:48.520 Love of the game.

01:33:50.060 Love for your family.

01:33:51.100 Love for your friends.

01:33:51.860 And like you said, no human being is perfect.

01:33:54.140 We all make mistakes.

01:33:55.140 I've made plenty of them.

01:33:56.760 And greatness is not about being perfect, but it is about progress.

01:34:00.020 And it is about owning the responsibilities of your life and working towards making a

01:34:04.960 positive impact on others.

01:34:06.520 And I think that's what he did so well.

01:34:09.160 Wow.

01:34:09.860 Lewis, what a pleasure meeting you.

01:34:11.760 I hope we can meet again and chat more.

01:34:14.000 I really, really enjoyed this.

01:34:16.260 I appreciate it.

01:34:17.200 We got to meet in person.

01:34:18.340 I got to have you on my show, but in person next time so I can give you a hug.

01:34:21.740 I would love that.

01:34:24.140 Wow.

01:34:24.660 So great talking with Lewis.

01:34:26.020 His new book, The Greatness Mindset, Unlock the Power of Your Mind and Live Your Best Life

01:34:30.700 today is available tomorrow.

01:34:33.260 And we are off tomorrow, but we will be back on Wednesday with the EJs.

01:34:38.880 You know, the gals love them.

01:34:40.540 Talk to you then.

01:34:41.220 Looking forward to it.

01:34:42.000 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:34:46.560 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - March 06, 2023

Navigating Life's Mission Changes, the Fear of Success, and the Goal of Greatness, with Lewis Howes ｜ Ep. 506

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