The Megyn Kelly Show - Navy SEAL Jason Redman on Overcoming the Victim Mindset, His Inspirational Recovery, and Our Military Today ｜ Ep. 560

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00:00:30.580 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.540 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.220 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:44.060 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.940 Today we remember and honor our servicemen and women

00:00:49.260 who paid the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom.

00:00:52.580 On this Memorial Day, we want to bring you the story

00:00:54.840 of a remarkable veteran who stared death in the face

00:00:59.120 and lived to share his incredible lessons

00:01:01.960 on leadership, bravery, and how to overcome any obstacle,

00:01:07.780 no matter how devastating it may feel in the moment.

00:01:11.620 Lieutenant Jason C. Redmond joins us now.

00:01:15.600 Jay, welcome to the show.

00:01:18.420 Megan, honored to be on.

00:01:19.860 Happy Memorial Day, everyone.

00:01:21.880 Oh gosh, to you too.

00:01:23.240 It's so great to talk to you and to see you again.

00:01:26.720 Do you remember when we met?

00:01:29.020 Absolutely.

00:01:29.840 Navy SEAL Foundation dinner in New York many years ago

00:01:32.760 when you were still working with Bill Hammer.

00:01:34.940 Exactly right.

00:01:35.940 And I never forgot you.

00:01:37.460 I've talked about you to basically every Navy SEAL

00:01:40.100 who's come on this show

00:01:41.120 and talked about you with Leif Babin

00:01:44.540 and his wife Jenna Lee and all these people

00:01:46.580 and just have been thinking about you

00:01:49.160 because your story was so incredible.

00:01:50.680 And back then, it was still pretty close in time

00:01:53.620 to when you first were injured.

00:01:56.360 You know, that was what, like 2010?

00:01:58.420 I'm trying to think of the year.

00:02:01.520 2007.

00:02:02.640 So I think I was still active duty.

00:02:04.640 I think I still was trying to get back operational

00:02:08.340 when I went to that dinner

00:02:09.560 because I didn't retire until 2013.

00:02:12.420 Yeah, I remember that.

00:02:13.660 And it was like, just your whole story was so incredible.

00:02:15.880 And of course, I've met so many people over the years

00:02:18.600 and I've met a lot of vets too, veterans in active duty.

00:02:21.480 And honestly, I can count on one hand

00:02:23.340 the number of people who really stand out to me

00:02:26.120 where I'm like, you've got to hear this story

00:02:28.040 and you're one of them.

00:02:29.140 So I'm truly honored to have you on here

00:02:31.680 and to be having this discussion with you today.

00:02:33.340 Great to see you.

00:02:34.560 Likewise.

00:02:35.120 Thank you.

00:02:36.260 Okay.

00:02:36.780 So from a very early age, I think it's fair to say,

00:02:39.540 I mean, like well before you actually signed up

00:02:41.280 for the Navy at age 17, had your eye,

00:02:44.520 was it on the Navy in particular or just the military?

00:02:49.240 It was both.

00:02:50.240 The Navy kind of came about a little bit later.

00:02:52.400 I mean, still young.

00:02:53.300 I think it was about 15.

00:02:54.500 I mean, from a very young age.

00:02:56.220 I mean, my parents tell me when I was about three years old,

00:02:58.840 I always just talked about service-based

00:03:01.960 and what I like to call in American society, protectors.

00:03:06.320 And I was always interested in, you know, that protector mindset.

00:03:11.000 When I was three years old, I wanted to be a firefighter.

00:03:14.160 That, as I got a little bit older, my grandfather was a decorated B-24 pilot.

00:03:19.920 Along with my grandfather on both sides, served in World War II.

00:03:23.340 My dad had been an Army veteran serving during the Vietnam War

00:03:28.060 and had been a paratrooper and jumpmaster and rigger.

00:03:33.400 And that's where he had encountered SEALs for the first time

00:03:37.380 and started learning more about special operations,

00:03:41.240 started learning more.

00:03:42.220 You know, I was kind of of the G.I. Joe era.

00:03:44.340 So, G.I. Joe was cool to me

00:03:46.980 and definitely the special operations guys within the G.I. Joe universe.

00:03:53.780 And it was about the time when I was maybe 14 that my dad said,

00:03:57.360 hey, you should look into the Navy SEALs.

00:03:59.840 Having spent some time in the Virgin Islands,

00:04:01.840 I was pretty strong in the water.

00:04:03.320 And he said, hey, these guys are tough.

00:04:05.600 They're some of the best.

00:04:06.580 He said, you know how to swim. 0.99

00:04:08.240 He said, you're a little crazy. 0.95

00:04:09.960 You should check them out. 0.99

00:04:10.960 They'd be perfect for you.

00:04:12.020 And he was right.

00:04:14.640 I don't know what it was.

00:04:16.120 And I'm not probably the likely candidate

00:04:19.340 that most people would think of.

00:04:22.460 You know, I think when people think of Navy SEALs,

00:04:24.880 you know, they see a picture of Jocko

00:04:26.940 and Jocko looks like he's chiseled out of granite,

00:04:29.420 you know, and he is the Hollywood version of a SEAL.

00:04:32.480 And I like to joke, but I'm not.

00:04:34.200 I was like five foot, nothing, especially at that age.

00:04:38.040 I was probably, I don't even think I had hit five foot back then.

00:04:42.180 I was probably 95 pounds when I decided that's what I want to do.

00:04:46.040 And everybody was like, there's no way you'll ever make it.

00:04:49.480 And I don't know, that just created fuel to my fire.

00:04:52.640 And I just said, this is what I'm going to do.

00:04:55.020 And set my sights on it and started training.

00:04:58.060 And, you know, the rest, obviously,

00:04:59.940 leading up to joining the Navy when I was 17.

00:05:03.900 On, amazingly enough, coincidentally,

00:05:06.380 September 11th, 1992 is the day I joined the Navy

00:05:09.920 when I was still a senior in high school.

00:05:12.840 You are the guy who says, say, I can't, say, I can't.

00:05:17.140 Like, there's no better fuel for your fire than that message.

00:05:23.660 It's a fact.

00:05:24.660 And, you know, and that's a good thing.

00:05:26.240 I've come to learn as I get older, there's a balance there.

00:05:29.240 You know, you've got to balance reality with where we're at.

00:05:32.000 Because when I was younger, man, that was the catalyst.

00:05:34.760 I mean, I would do just about anything if you told me,

00:05:37.220 hey, you can't do that.

00:05:38.360 I mean, I just had to prove.

00:05:39.600 And I think some of that, who knows, had to do.

00:05:41.540 Maybe I was a smaller guy, so I felt like I had to prove

00:05:45.180 that I was big enough or whatever to do it.

00:05:48.060 But I tell you, back then, it was definitely a fuel

00:05:50.980 that enabled me to make it through training

00:05:53.680 and to overcome a lot of the impossible odds.

00:05:57.780 As a matter of fact, I was told right from the very beginning

00:06:00.320 when I went to the recruiting station in Lumberton, North Carolina,

00:06:03.520 where I was living at the time.

00:06:05.360 And I walked in that door probably the first time.

00:06:09.180 I might have been 15, probably 15 and a half, basically.

00:06:13.440 And I walked in that door and I said,

00:06:14.860 hey, I want to join the Navy and I want to be a SEAL.

00:06:17.280 And boy, they took one look at me,

00:06:19.020 this five-foot nothing, you know, runt.

00:06:22.760 And they were like, you'll never make it as a SEAL.

00:06:25.140 And they basically, the recruiter chased me out of the office.

00:06:28.340 And, of course, that didn't deter me.

00:06:31.680 I came back and he would chase me out again.

00:06:36.420 And multiple times that happened.

00:06:40.160 Funny story, I almost went and joined the Army

00:06:42.400 because I got frustrated that they wouldn't let me,

00:06:44.900 you know, that this guy wouldn't even give me the time of day.

00:06:47.780 So I almost joined the Army to become a Ranger.

00:06:50.500 And I ended up failing the airborne physical

00:06:55.960 because they said, oh, you can't equalize

00:06:58.100 because I had ruptured my eardrum when I was a kid.

00:07:01.760 And when I, and, you know,

00:07:03.500 thankfully my dad had been in the military.

00:07:05.520 He said, well, why don't we go send you to a specialist?

00:07:07.880 And they can, because I knew I could equalize.

00:07:10.020 I had dove, I had done all these things.

00:07:12.680 And sure enough, I went to a specialist.

00:07:14.520 By the time that it all transpired,

00:07:16.540 I try and explain to everybody, you know,

00:07:18.160 everything happens for a reason.

00:07:20.680 And by the time this had transpired,

00:07:23.580 there was a new recruiter in the recruiting office

00:07:26.020 in Lumberton, North Carolina, Henry Horn,

00:07:28.120 who I got to link up with last year after all this time

00:07:31.140 and thank him in person.

00:07:33.160 But Henry Horn was the new recruiter.

00:07:35.220 And he said, hey, you want to be a SEAL?

00:07:37.560 Come on, man.

00:07:38.740 And he helped me get into the Navy.

00:07:40.840 He put me on the path to become a SEAL.

00:07:42.660 And I got to give a lot of credit to Henry for that.

00:07:46.320 He must be so proud of being that guy

00:07:49.080 in your life and the life of the service industry

00:07:51.940 in our country.

00:07:53.820 Can I ask you how,

00:07:55.680 so when you actually did sign up,

00:07:56.820 because I understand you officially were allowed to join

00:07:58.540 when you were 17.

00:07:59.800 So what was your physical stature then?

00:08:01.880 Because it's interesting to me.

00:08:02.820 You always do think of these guys being bigger

00:08:05.780 and you do picture like a Jocko going in there

00:08:08.200 and them being like,

00:08:09.300 right this way, sir.

00:08:10.120 Yes, duh.

00:08:10.720 Of course we belong together.

00:08:11.860 So I probably hit somewhat of a growth spurt

00:08:16.520 in my junior, senior year,

00:08:19.700 but I was definitely not that big.

00:08:22.120 I mean, even today, I'm 5'8 and about 170 pounds.

00:08:25.960 So I'm on the average SEAL.

00:08:27.540 A lot of people don't know, though,

00:08:28.500 the average SEAL is only about 5'10 and 180 pounds.

00:08:33.640 This Hollywood version of the Arnold Schwarzenegger type

00:08:36.580 just is not necessarily the case.

00:08:39.180 I mean, SEALs typically are lean, muscled,

00:08:42.720 and usually they'll have a larger upper body

00:08:46.940 because they have strong muscular endurance strength

00:08:50.100 from the gear we have to carry

00:08:52.940 and our ability to have to do a lot of activities

00:08:55.940 with our body weight and gear.

00:08:57.880 So your ability to pull yourself up a ladder,

00:09:00.180 your ability to pull yourself up onto a rooftop,

00:09:04.360 any of these different things are marked by what we have to do,

00:09:07.380 especially when you're going through training.

00:09:10.180 So, yeah, when I went through training,

00:09:12.580 I think I was probably 5'7.

00:09:15.400 I might have grown one more inch.

00:09:16.760 And I started training at 18.

00:09:18.320 So I was 18 years old.

00:09:19.420 I was 5'7.

00:09:20.320 And I think I checked into BUDS at about 135.

00:09:23.760 So I was one of the lightest guys in the class.

00:09:26.740 That's inspirational, though.

00:09:27.900 There are probably a lot of guys out there thinking,

00:09:29.580 oh, my gosh, maybe I too could be a SEAL.

00:09:32.860 Yeah.

00:09:33.140 Oh, 100%.

00:09:34.180 And I'm not one of the smallest.

00:09:35.720 I mean, believe it or not, like I said,

00:09:36.960 I'm on the smaller end of the spectrum.

00:09:38.180 But we've had SEALs.

00:09:39.280 I think the smallest I ever heard was about 5'2.

00:09:43.940 And obviously, we've got great big, huge guys.

00:09:49.000 It's not normal.

00:09:50.860 The big guys really have a hard time making it through training.

00:09:53.200 The amount of pounding on their joints ends up breaking them

00:09:56.140 for the hundreds and hundreds of miles that you run

00:09:58.960 and the amount of body weight strength and endurance you have to have

00:10:03.320 to be able to do 20, 30 pull-ups, to be able to do 50 dips,

00:10:06.640 to be able to do hundreds and hundreds of push-ups.

00:10:09.000 It's really hard on big guys' joints.

00:10:11.700 But we did the biggest SEAL I know.

00:10:14.520 My nine-year-old was listening to me prepare for you.

00:10:16.980 And we were talking all about the SEALs and training.

00:10:19.140 And he wanted to know if they make you do one-handed push-ups. 0.59

00:10:22.420 Do they make you do any of those?

00:10:24.020 Uh, yes.

00:10:26.320 And I actually, when I, uh, I broke my arm in training

00:10:29.380 and I had to do a lot of one-arm push-ups

00:10:31.640 because just because I had broken my arm

00:10:34.200 did not mean that I, uh, that I wasn't still getting yelled at

00:10:38.180 and dropped to do push-ups and do things.

00:10:40.140 Wow.

00:10:40.580 Wow.

00:10:41.340 Wow.

00:10:41.760 So that's so good, you know, but I think you tell me,

00:10:44.540 but it seems like whatever the height, whatever the stature,

00:10:47.320 the number one thing, the reason you made it as a SEAL

00:10:49.500 was that attitude.

00:10:50.340 It's that attitude.

00:10:51.380 Like that just never say die.

00:10:52.940 I, I will not quit.

00:10:54.560 There's something different in the guys who make it through

00:10:57.840 as SEALs versus everybody else,

00:11:00.540 because they have that thing that just, it will not let them quit.

00:11:04.740 That's right.

00:11:05.500 It's, uh, I think there are two things that enable individuals

00:11:08.800 into special operations.

00:11:10.520 Number one, that we like to call it the no quit gene.

00:11:13.440 I mean, the Navy has spent millions and millions of dollars trying to figure out

00:11:17.460 how do they increase the number of graduates from SEAL training and all these things they've

00:11:23.740 done going all the way back to world war two, when they started training, um, it really,

00:11:30.340 the, the attrition rate has stayed roughly the same.

00:11:32.980 It has been around 75%.

00:11:34.680 So 75% of the people that start training do not graduate.

00:11:38.920 Um, you know, we often talk about, it's the no quit gene.

00:11:42.900 Everybody gets pushed to the point.

00:11:44.780 Everyone has a breaking point.

00:11:47.020 And in SEAL training, they push you to that point and they teach you how to grind through

00:11:52.160 it and keep going.

00:11:52.880 Your brain will tell you, you have to stop. 0.70

00:11:55.140 Your brain will tell you if I don't keep going, I'm going to die.

00:11:57.860 But the reality is your body can keep going almost 10 times further beyond that.

00:12:02.960 And, um, so it's the ability to endure that gets you through training.

00:12:08.040 But the other thing that I think special operations guys, they have the ability to process massive

00:12:13.720 amounts of information in a very chaotic environment and, and make rapid decisions.

00:12:18.920 And there's a lot of people that can't do that.

00:12:20.940 I mean, when we send guys into, you know, a, um, imagine a hostage rescue scenario where

00:12:27.240 they're now having to make entry into a room where there are bad guys in the room that

00:12:31.200 are shooting that shoe.

00:12:32.280 You very quickly have to assess that situation, identify who's bad, who's good.

00:12:37.720 Who do I need to shoot?

00:12:38.720 Who do I not need to shoot?

00:12:39.840 Who do I need to protect?

00:12:40.920 And all of that's happening in milliseconds.

00:12:43.540 And, uh, there are definitely guys that make it through training.

00:12:46.700 Unfortunately, they don't have the ability to, to process that information at that rate.

00:12:51.820 And sometimes they end up going away just because of that.

00:12:54.220 So it's those two things that I think truly make, uh, excellent special operations, you

00:12:59.920 know, people, they make great seals.

00:13:01.920 Hmm.

00:13:02.400 You know, it kind of reminds me of, um, I was talking one time to the coach, the head

00:13:06.200 coach of the Minnesota Vikings, and he was saying when he recruits quarterbacks, he does

00:13:11.860 need, you know, an agile, you know, a guy who can actually complete the plays and knows

00:13:16.520 how to throw the football and has sort of a physics, a basic knowledge of physics and

00:13:20.020 instinctual knowledge of physics, but he was saying some of the guys can't remember the

00:13:25.160 playbook.

00:13:25.680 They don't remember everything that's in there and when to call which play, depending

00:13:30.460 on how the guys line up in the field, far less dangerous, obviously than what you do.

00:13:34.240 But it was kind of a similar thing where it's not enough to have the physical capabilities.

00:13:38.680 There has to be this mental thing that you either have or you don't have.

00:13:42.280 And if you don't have it, it's as much of a deal breaker as not having the physical

00:13:46.000 strength.

00:13:46.380 Absolutely.

00:13:47.340 And sometimes it will become the deal breaker.

00:13:49.800 I mean, you know, there are a lot of guys out there that are strong.

00:13:52.560 I mean, I mean, a lot of individuals who will say to me, oh, you know, they're, they're

00:13:56.240 anywhere from professional athletes to, uh, believe it or not, I meet a lot of high level

00:14:01.500 business individuals, uh, in the financial market that will say to me, I definitely could

00:14:06.040 have been a seal.

00:14:07.220 And, you know, I laugh at a, the arrogance of that statement, but, uh, and maybe, maybe they

00:14:13.140 do have a little bit of the financial, I mean, the, uh, physical ability, but do you have

00:14:18.420 the ability to process information and continue to execute when you're in the middle of a firefighter

00:14:22.860 after you've, you know, flown in, taken fire, maybe you've jumped in, uh, and now you're

00:14:28.200 patrolling long ways.

00:14:29.220 Maybe you've been in a firefight and you feel where you even get to the target building.

00:14:32.340 Now you're in the target, you know, you're in a firefight.

00:14:35.000 You have people that are wounded.

00:14:35.900 Now you're trying to move people out.

00:14:37.960 You know, now you've got civilians you're trying to take care of them along with your

00:14:41.760 wounded, uh, while things are still blowing up around you and you still got to process

00:14:46.320 all this.

00:14:47.500 Um, I mean, that was all stuff that I experienced in my career.

00:14:51.080 And there are some people that can do that.

00:14:53.280 And unfortunately there's a lot more that can't, they just, uh, high pressure environments.

00:14:59.200 They shut down professional sports is the same.

00:15:01.320 You put people off and talk about the, you know, the high level games.

00:15:04.540 Um, you know, like the Superbowl or the NCAA championship games and how some of the players

00:15:11.580 just can't manage that stress and that overwhelming pressure.

00:15:15.640 Yeah.

00:15:16.120 You can see it when people choke.

00:15:17.920 I mean, in sports, we have an opportunity to see it in a way we don't in military where

00:15:22.200 you can see who's a choker and who's not, who performs at that high level in the most 0.99

00:15:26.580 stressful of circumstances and who, and who doesn't now, wait, this is a stupid question, 0.99

00:15:30.540 but I have to ask it. 0.92

00:15:31.380 So are you telling me that even in my own exercise life, which I will grant you is more

00:15:36.940 limited than it ought to be when I am doing the jumping jacks and I am so burned and my

00:15:42.020 legs are on fire and I'm like, I've got to take the next eight out and I've just got to

00:15:46.580 like bend down for the next eight.

00:15:47.940 I'll come back after an eight beat pause.

00:15:50.460 Are you telling me I can just keep going?

00:15:52.160 Are you telling me that like, if I would just get mentally tougher, I can do it straight

00:15:56.940 through, just keep freaking pushing.

00:16:00.920 Absolutely.

00:16:02.500 Believe it or not.

00:16:05.940 Most people could, if you had the fortitude and the ability to endure the pain and the

00:16:12.500 discomfort, you could probably push yourself right to death.

00:16:15.560 You could jumping jack yourself to death. 0.86

00:16:17.640 It would take a long time. 0.78

00:16:18.960 There'd be all kinds of alarm bells going off in your brain probably days before you got

00:16:26.660 there.

00:16:28.200 But it is amazing the resiliency of this amazing machine we walk around in.

00:16:37.660 And unfortunately, in this day and age, we are not building that much in our people.

00:16:43.860 We are not, um, we're getting softer as a generation.

00:16:46.740 And, you know, every Monday I put out a leadership and resilience video.

00:16:51.020 I call it Monday muster.

00:16:52.280 And this last Monday, it was exactly about that.

00:16:54.720 I just finished reading this book called kingdom of ice by Hampton sides.

00:16:58.600 And it is about the trek to the North pole in, uh, I believe 1779.

00:17:04.080 Um, and absolutely amazing.

00:17:06.420 I read that story and the level of heroism and the level of pain and discomfort and frozen

00:17:12.920 temperatures all the time that those guys had to deal with.

00:17:16.640 I, I consider myself fairly tough guy.

00:17:19.120 And I, I remember reading it thinking, man, I, how would I have fared in this?

00:17:23.400 So fast forward to today, um, we don't have to do a lot of things that really push us.

00:17:29.840 People have to do hard things in order to build grit and resilience.

00:17:33.620 So I really encourage those of you that may be watching, you've got to push your kids to

00:17:38.220 do hard things.

00:17:39.060 So you have to do hard things.

00:17:40.360 You have to encourage your family to do hard things.

00:17:43.180 Otherwise we just get softer and softer and we'll just, you know, it's human nature.

00:17:47.020 We want to be comfortable.

00:17:48.000 Everybody, including me.

00:17:49.560 I mean, we all want to be comfortable, but grit.

00:17:52.000 And I like to tell people the overcome mindset is not something you can just flip a switch

00:17:55.960 and say, Oh, I have to be tough right now.

00:17:57.880 So let me throw my little switch and now I'll be tough.

00:18:01.340 It's built you in a hard thing.

00:18:03.280 And if you don't do hard things, you will never be able to throw that switch when you really

00:18:07.440 need to, it reminds me your, your story about your book reminds me of a one time I was skiing

00:18:12.800 at this very posh ski resort with my husband and my brother-in-law, some others, and just

00:18:18.900 like a downpour of snow came right on top of us.

00:18:22.120 Just this huge snowstorm dumped on us and it came fast.

00:18:26.440 And so before we knew it, the snow was up above our knees.

00:18:29.620 You could barely see in front of you.

00:18:31.380 And I said to my brother-in-law, Ken, uh, I feel like Shackleton.

00:18:35.300 And he said, except with no hardship.

00:18:40.360 Yeah.

00:18:43.200 You know, like where they've got the ski butlers who are going to take off the, this, the boots

00:18:47.560 when you get back to the resort.

00:18:48.540 Oh, poor me.

00:18:50.240 No.

00:18:50.740 And they warm your boots.

00:18:52.000 I mean, I love the resorts like that.

00:18:53.900 We love to ski.

00:18:54.720 So anything like that I'm all about, but yeah, I hate the cold now.

00:18:58.640 And, um, that expedition, I mean, you are, you are in SEAL training.

00:19:04.080 It is the one common thing.

00:19:05.320 You are wet, cold, covered in sand.

00:19:07.380 So I despise the cold.

00:19:10.480 Um, and I just think about these guys, these guys were literally cutting frostbite, um, out

00:19:17.680 of their feet.

00:19:19.680 I mean, that's how insane the conditions were and how hard and then continuing to go.

00:19:24.880 I mean, there are other people that'd be like, Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm now an invalid.

00:19:29.140 There's no way I can ride forward.

00:19:30.520 But literally it wasn't until like bones were exposed where they weren't able to walk at

00:19:35.580 all.

00:19:36.480 Um, I was just fascinated with this story and the level of grit and resilience and, and

00:19:42.260 society, we may never get back to that.

00:19:44.740 I mean, thankfully, or hopefully we live in a day.

00:19:48.220 We are, we are things to people like you, this is, this is what our children need to

00:19:52.620 be watching and listening to guys like you with that same messaging.

00:19:57.080 You know, I'd like to say it's still the military writ large, notwithstanding Millie and some

00:20:01.940 of these other guys and the messaging from them.

00:20:04.020 Um, but that's what I have my kids listen to.

00:20:06.860 I don't want them listening to your week.

00:20:09.180 We lean into your weaknesses. 0.93

00:20:10.920 Everyone's sick. 0.78

00:20:11.980 Everyone's depressed.

00:20:13.200 Everyone's near suicidal.

00:20:14.360 You know, here's another poll to confirm all that here, go back on social media to make

00:20:17.760 yourself feel better slash worse.

00:20:19.740 They need to be watching your Insta Jocko's, all these guys who have been through about just

00:20:24.540 grit and mental toughness, because it is a skill.

00:20:27.300 Like you were saying, it's a skill and you have to practice it.

00:20:31.140 Yeah, absolutely.

00:20:32.140 And that's what a lot of people don't.

00:20:34.020 I love the fact when people read my book and they don't really know my story, what's out

00:20:38.420 there is, Hey, this guy got all shot up and he wrote that sign on the door and he's

00:20:42.840 this tough seal.

00:20:43.580 What they don't realize is there's a huge part of the story that most people don't know

00:20:47.720 until they read my book.

00:20:48.900 And that's that I failed as a young leader.

00:20:51.520 And I'll be honest, it was that journey, building myself back up against really hard

00:20:56.520 odds that really built the overcome mindset and all the leadership things that I talk about

00:21:01.760 today.

00:21:03.240 And, you know, Megan, you nailed it.

00:21:05.600 Right now in this country, um, you know, I joke with people about, you know, we're still

00:21:11.140 in the midst of a pandemic and, uh, and people go COVID and I'm like, no, we're, we, the pandemic

00:21:18.060 is the victim mindset.

00:21:19.980 There is a large swath of society that is being convinced you are a victim.

00:21:24.080 You know, you, there, there are, you know, political leaders that want to convince you

00:21:29.940 regardless of your race, creed, color, demographic, gender, gender, persuasion, uh, religion, religious

00:21:35.740 affiliation.

00:21:36.400 I don't care what it is.

00:21:37.500 Uh, they want to convince you you're a victim and that there's no way you can save yourself

00:21:42.280 only someone else have to save you.

00:21:45.360 Or oftentimes it's only the government can save you, which is scary and a dangerous thought

00:21:50.620 itself.

00:21:51.120 Uh, I, everything I teach on is on self-leadership.

00:21:55.140 You have the power to drive forward and create change in your life.

00:21:59.460 And, uh, and it is the exact opposite of this victim mindset, but it is pervasive.

00:22:04.700 It is pervasive across social media.

00:22:07.500 It is pervasive oftentimes in the media.

00:22:10.800 Uh, and we've got to break this.

00:22:12.480 I mean, America was built on these, on fountains of, um, resilience and grit and, and self-leadership.

00:22:21.160 You know, these individuals that came across here to this country and said, Hey, we're going 0.92

00:22:24.980 to, we're going to figure out how to overcome and we're going to figure out how to make our

00:22:28.180 way.

00:22:29.140 And, uh, right now we're not there.

00:22:30.900 Everything, even in the military right now, there's this idea about individualism.

00:22:34.700 And I believe in self-leadership, but you have to be part of something bigger.

00:22:39.280 You know, a military unit is working together.

00:22:41.720 It's a whole bunch of leaders who create this unified organism, if you will, that does incredible

00:22:47.760 things.

00:22:48.540 So fascinating to watch and a little sad.

00:22:52.260 I hope that we can wake up.

00:22:54.140 Um, you know, there, there is, uh, you know, I learned the hard way about individualism because

00:23:00.100 when I was, when I got myself in trouble as a leader, it was about me.

00:23:04.680 It, I was selfish and I was focused on me and I wasn't focused outward.

00:23:09.040 And I think there's a lot of that going on in our country right now.

00:23:11.960 You got to take care of yourself, but how does that impact?

00:23:14.700 How do you set the example for your staff, your employees, your children, your spouse,

00:23:19.880 your, your family, your community?

00:23:21.440 Um, you know, we need more leadership and we need more grit.

00:23:26.200 How do we even still have a military given this mindset amongst the Gen Zers? 1.00

00:23:32.820 Do they, do you think today's guys are coming into the military with this victim mentality

00:23:37.640 and then it gets sort of beaten out of them?

00:23:39.700 Or do you think it just naturally attracts the minority amongst that generation that doesn't

00:23:47.800 have the victim mentality and that's what they're doing there?

00:23:50.500 I think there's still a lot of individuals that are coming into the military who have

00:23:53.820 that grit and resiliency and want to be part of specific units and certain things.

00:23:58.980 I think the problem is there are parts of the military that are becoming a little bit of

00:24:02.580 a social experiment.

00:24:04.120 Like, Hey, um, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm conservative, but I probably have a little more,

00:24:10.940 um, liberal views when it comes to social norms. 0.96

00:24:15.620 Like, I don't care if you're gay. 1.00

00:24:17.200 Uh, but in the military, there's no room for individualism. 0.99

00:24:23.800 You're in the military.

00:24:25.560 Uh, we all have to fight together, race, creed, color, Democrat, gender, gender persuading.

00:24:32.020 None of that matters in the military.

00:24:33.360 If you want to do that in your off time, that's fine.

00:24:35.520 You can embrace that.

00:24:36.480 But as a military, we are a unit that must work together and there is not time or, or

00:24:43.920 all of that's going to distract if we're so focused on a certain segment or demographic

00:24:49.920 of society that we need to, I don't know, highlight or promote everybody in the military.

00:24:54.720 When I was in, we all wore the same uniform.

00:24:57.680 Um, we didn't highlight anyone and, uh, and it was amazing to me and just, you know, the

00:25:04.120 guys across the different platoons that I worked, they were different race creeds, some

00:25:08.500 were religious, some were Christians, some were atheists, um, uh, you know, few other

00:25:14.860 religions that were out there, but it didn't matter.

00:25:17.280 What mattered was our ability to execute the mission and you could depend on that person.

00:25:21.600 And I think the military deeply needs to get back to understanding that and understand

00:25:25.720 that the purpose of the military is to protect our, um, our country to protect and defend

00:25:34.080 the United States of America, but which should be the same mission for any country that's

00:25:37.880 out there.

00:25:38.700 And it's not on highlighting whatever is going on in society out there.

00:25:44.140 Uh, those are, those are political, political aims.

00:25:47.540 The military should always be apolitical with a singularity of focus, which is to protect

00:25:53.680 and defend our nation against, you know, all enemies.

00:25:57.740 You know, this is, you correct me if I'm wrong, but this is why the focus by Millie on having

00:26:05.020 you guys learn about white rage or Austin defending, handing out Kendi, uh, to, to the troops

00:26:12.220 is so problematic.

00:26:13.460 It's not just a distraction from what you need to be focusing on, which I believe it

00:26:18.600 is.

00:26:19.100 It's divisive.

00:26:20.600 It's, it's kind of sending exactly the opposite of the message you need to ingrain in order

00:26:27.860 to be an effective soldier, right?

00:26:29.840 Or frog, like you frog, man, you, you, all the messaging is forget that stuff.

00:26:36.200 That stuff is not relevant to us here.

00:26:38.500 No, a thousand percent.

00:26:41.820 And I mean, it's the same thing in the military as it's happening in our country.

00:26:45.640 I've talked about this.

00:26:46.700 Our, our, a lot of political leaders are doing things that are just abiding us as a nation.

00:26:51.840 And they want to focus on, you know, specific segments of time.

00:26:55.780 Slavery happened.

00:26:56.600 It was a terrible thing, but there is no country in the past, you know, 250 years that has made

00:27:03.340 more advances in trying to create equality.

00:27:06.360 I mean, it has been a slow process, obviously.

00:27:10.460 But there have been leaders who saw this is wrong.

00:27:14.780 We need to fix this.

00:27:16.140 And this idea suddenly that, you know, these different initiatives that are out there, you

00:27:21.640 know, that focus on America was built on racism.

00:27:26.020 I don't think this is true.

00:27:27.600 We're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

00:27:29.500 And, and there's a lot of incredible things that have occurred.

00:27:32.720 And when we start to talk about the level of success of the American dream, it has been

00:27:37.880 all race, creed, and colors.

00:27:39.580 It's been, there, there are more millionaires in the world that have come out of the United

00:27:43.980 States of America than any other nation on earth.

00:27:46.460 And they're all race, creed, color, and genders.

00:27:49.820 You know, and there are some people that would try and say, well, white males are the majority.

00:27:55.340 Well, maybe that's true, uh, right now, but instead of trying to create division, why

00:28:02.060 are we not looking for ways, you know, two wrongs don't make a right to continue to create

00:28:07.220 division, especially in the military, you're creating individuals.

00:28:10.560 Now you're creating separation.

00:28:12.280 You're creating a line of distrust.

00:28:14.120 You're creating potentially even a level of hatred, which is not going to further that

00:28:18.620 unit.

00:28:19.020 It's all about culture.

00:28:20.080 It's all about trust.

00:28:21.000 It's all about respect for each other, that we are equal warriors that are trying to get

00:28:25.020 out there and make something happen.

00:28:26.360 And it should be the same in this country.

00:28:27.640 So it's disheartening to me.

00:28:29.620 And it's crazy to me because I think back to Martin Luther King's speech when he said,

00:28:34.540 you know, I had a dream that one day men will be judged by the content of their character,

00:28:38.620 not by the caliber of their skin.

00:28:40.280 Yet our political messaging right now is we want to judge individuals by the color of their

00:28:45.180 skin.

00:28:46.420 That's terrible, man.

00:28:47.440 We're all human.

00:28:48.120 We need to, we are, in my opinion, moving backwards.

00:28:51.080 We're moving backwards, both in the military and both as a nation.

00:28:54.480 And that's sad to me because I have worked with everyone, you know, everyone.

00:29:01.040 When I, when I lived in the Virgin Islands, um, I was the only white kid in my class, but

00:29:07.520 I didn't notice that.

00:29:08.460 I didn't care.

00:29:09.420 They were all my friends.

00:29:11.220 Um, and we're becoming this society that wants to focus so much on race.

00:29:16.160 I hate the fact that every single form I fill out today is like, well, what race are you?

00:29:22.120 Yep.

00:29:22.660 We should eradicate that.

00:29:24.580 And it should just say, are you an American?

00:29:27.220 If you're an American, if you're an American citizen, that's what you are.

00:29:30.460 You know, I think the only things that maybe they still have that on is potentially medical

00:29:36.000 documents because there is some linkage, of course, to race and nationality.

00:29:40.080 And hopefully they can help prevent that anything else that should go away because it's just

00:29:44.660 used as a method to divide us.

00:29:47.700 And that should not be the case, man.

00:29:49.440 Our leadership should be looking at how to unite us.

00:29:52.320 And right now, all I see is political leadership who's continuing to divide us.

00:29:56.640 And it's happening in the military too, which is super, super dangerous.

00:30:00.820 Now streaming on Paramount+.

00:30:04.500 Someone is trying to frame us.

00:30:07.440 Until our names are cleared.

00:30:10.000 We're fugitives from interval.

00:30:11.780 Like Bonnie and Clyde with better snacks.

00:30:15.220 Espionage.

00:30:15.860 You're still as good a shot as you used to be.

00:30:18.940 Better.

00:30:19.680 Is there love language?

00:30:21.160 We like to walk that fine line between techno thriller and romantic comedy.

00:30:26.460 We make up our own rules.

00:30:27.720 NCIS Tony and Ziva, now streaming on Paramount+.

00:30:31.800 All right, let's talk about your experience and sort of get the audience through what it

00:30:41.820 was like for you.

00:30:42.500 So you, as I understand it, you deployed and you joined the military on September 11th,

00:30:49.040 1992, joined the Navy.

00:30:50.420 Is that right?

00:30:50.840 September 11th, 92.

00:30:52.780 That's right.

00:30:53.360 Little did you know.

00:30:54.560 I mean, you know, what, nine years later, what was going to be happening in this country

00:30:59.600 for guys in the military in particular.

00:31:02.400 So you go to boot camp, you do BUDS training.

00:31:05.760 That was January of 1995.

00:31:07.620 I know that this is like small ball for SEALs guys to talk about BUDS training, but everybody

00:31:12.120 else loves hearing about it.

00:31:13.200 So can you just give us a couple of examples?

00:31:14.780 I was, you know, just listening to these guys talk about like your friend Leif and Jocko,

00:31:19.000 they were on a podcast talking about how like it's bullshit to talk about BUDS. 0.95

00:31:21.900 Like talk about combat. 0.94

00:31:23.300 Anybody, the only people want to talk about BUDS are people who never actually went to

00:31:26.620 combat after BUDS.

00:31:28.340 And that's the highlight of their Navy career.

00:31:30.400 But give me a minute on it because I think my sons will enjoy it.

00:31:33.360 And I think a lot of people love hearing about just what we put you guys through in order

00:31:36.760 to call yourself a SEAL.

00:31:39.540 Yeah, training is hard.

00:31:40.900 It's, uh, I mean, there's no doubt about it, but at the flip side of that coin, I kind

00:31:44.920 of knew what I was getting myself into.

00:31:46.560 I had researched.

00:31:47.320 I actually served with one of the East Coast SEAL units before I went out to BUDS.

00:31:52.200 I mean, I had a pretty good idea of what I was getting myself into.

00:31:56.600 Um, and it is, it is unequivocally hard.

00:31:59.000 Training's broken into three different parts.

00:32:01.120 Uh, first phase is designed to weed people out.

00:32:05.560 It is designed to be as hard as possible, physically hard as possible.

00:32:09.460 And, um, so it's, uh, it's massive amounts of physical exercises and evolutions, um, that

00:32:17.660 are pushing you out of your comfort zone into that zone of discomfort and pain and forcing

00:32:24.500 you to come to grips with your brain is telling you, you have to stop, but your, your body can

00:32:29.680 keep going.

00:32:30.460 That culminates with hell week and hell week is probably considered to be one of the top

00:32:36.180 toughest blocks of training in the U S military.

00:32:38.760 Uh, some say in a lot of our, our even global military units and hell week is exactly that.

00:32:45.120 It's a week long, goes from Sunday to Friday.

00:32:48.420 And during that week, you will get maybe on average two to three hours of sleep.

00:32:52.720 You are constantly wet, coated in sand.

00:32:55.220 You're carrying the boat around on top of your head, everywhere you go.

00:32:58.040 It's not uncommon for guys to chafe holes inside their, uh, inside their legs or inside their

00:33:04.400 armpits or to rub the hair off their head.

00:33:06.520 It's not uncommon for your toenails and fingernails to fall off during hell week.

00:33:11.300 Um, it's also not uncommon to hallucinate during hell week.

00:33:15.740 I remember, um, when I went through hell week, um, a couple of things that stand out.

00:33:21.720 Um, I remember, um, one, I was in the, I was boat crews go by height.

00:33:30.060 Um, so the, the tallest boat crews are in boat crew one, uh, those are the studs.

00:33:35.360 And, and, uh, in our class, I remember boat crew one, one, everything leading up to hell

00:33:41.540 week.

00:33:41.740 They were the beasts.

00:33:43.780 And, uh, we got into hell week and on Tuesday night, I was in the shortest boat crew, by

00:33:48.800 the way, which is called the smurf crew.

00:33:50.460 So for those of you that enjoy that complete with a little smurf on the front of your boat.

00:33:54.620 Um, so, uh, and, uh, I remember like the boat crew one, we're like, God, you know, we were

00:34:02.900 like, those guys win everything, you know, they just dominated.

00:34:05.920 And on Tuesday night of hell week, which is one of the hardest evolutions that culminates

00:34:11.040 on Tuesday night, everybody in boat crew one quit that night, except one guy.

00:34:16.200 And it made me realize they're human too.

00:34:19.340 Every single person out there that is like, Oh, that guy's got it all figured out.

00:34:23.820 Like they never have any doubts.

00:34:25.800 That's BS.

00:34:26.800 Everyone has doubts.

00:34:28.060 Everyone has, you know, their hangups and issues.

00:34:31.740 The difference between successful people is they continue to drive forward, uh, besides

00:34:36.460 those doubts.

00:34:37.140 And man, when those guys quit, I was like, I got this and kept driving forward.

00:34:43.360 Um, it's hard.

00:34:47.420 It's miserable.

00:34:48.460 It's you have to dig deep within yourself.

00:34:51.400 And the evolution we were doing is something called steel piers.

00:34:56.280 Um, and what they do is, um, you know, they have a, like a fire hose that they're misting

00:35:02.680 you.

00:35:02.960 It's, it's at night in San Diego Bay.

00:35:05.620 I went through hell week of March.

00:35:06.920 So the temperature was probably in the low fifties.

00:35:10.200 Um, the water temp, I would imagine was probably in, um, maybe high fifties and, uh, uh, and

00:35:18.160 it was a large floating steel pier.

00:35:21.020 And, uh, you, you were forced to remove all your clothing and fold it up.

00:35:25.520 You were just wearing a small pair of shorts.

00:35:27.260 That was it.

00:35:27.820 And they would, you were with your swim buddy in these little metal, I don't know.

00:35:32.860 They were probably like three by three foot squares and the whole class is spread out

00:35:36.540 with their swim buddy.

00:35:37.260 And you would have to hold your clothes up.

00:35:39.460 And the instructors would say, place your, you know, pants folded up in the Northwest corner. 0.71

00:35:44.480 And none of us had a compass and you've already been awake for like 48 hours.

00:35:48.600 So you're like, it's nighttime.

00:35:51.060 So you're like, which way is Northwest?

00:35:53.040 So everybody would try and figure out which way was Northwest.

00:35:55.580 And the class would come to a conclusion.

00:35:57.600 This is Northwest.

00:35:59.340 And, and, you know, you'd mess it up and then you get yelled at and they'd force you to lay

00:36:04.200 down on the cold steel and they'd spray you with water until you were shaken enough.

00:36:08.080 And at some point they'd scream at you to get up and jump in the water.

00:36:12.040 And, uh, and I remember we'd all run over to the edge and it was like, your body was telling

00:36:17.200 you to go, but your brain would like slam on the brakes.

00:36:20.060 And it was so funny.

00:36:20.880 You'd watch everybody.

00:36:21.960 I remember this in my mind, everybody would get up to the edge of the pier and like come

00:36:26.080 to this stop and be like, and then you just have to force yourself into the water.

00:36:30.860 And the instructors would like throw your clothes and your boots into the water, which, you know,

00:36:36.520 you're in the, you're in the bay.

00:36:37.980 So now you're having to dive down in the darkness and find your stuff.

00:36:41.160 And, and this went on for hours, probably four or five hours.

00:36:44.040 Um, and, and, um, I remember when guys quit, they, they, the steel pier was down below the

00:36:53.820 concrete pier, which was up above where the vans were parked up there.

00:36:58.380 Um, and, and there's all, there's a method to the madness.

00:37:02.720 I mean, a lot of what, um, SEAL training, special operations training is it's psychological.

00:37:07.900 Um, you know, SEAL training is not, you don't accomplish SEAL training through this.

00:37:13.800 It's accomplished through this and through this, your ability to find it within your

00:37:18.140 heart and to think through the problems.

00:37:19.880 So when guys would quit, they would be given a blanket and a hot cup of coffee or cocoa,

00:37:25.720 and they would go sit in the van that was, uh, had the heater on.

00:37:30.000 And you would see them up there sitting in that van, drinking with their blanket on all 0.99

00:37:34.420 warm, looking down on you while you're getting your butt kicked. 0.98

00:37:38.600 And, uh, it was so easy to say, man, all I have to do is say, I quit and I can go sit 0.99

00:37:44.180 in that warmth.

00:37:44.860 And that's, man, that's like life.

00:37:46.920 How often do we find these moments?

00:37:48.680 Like, man, all I have to do is get a little further.

00:37:51.660 And I try to explain to people, keep pushing.

00:37:53.840 You never know.

00:37:54.220 It's always darkest before the dawn.

00:37:56.360 And, um, so anyways, that's what happened to boat crew one.

00:38:00.080 All of them, I think got caught up in it and, uh, and they quit during that evolution.

00:38:05.360 So I remember on Thursday or on Wednesday night, I was hallucinating.

00:38:11.580 We were doing an evolution called around the world where you row your boats around, uh,

00:38:16.600 Coronado Island.

00:38:17.460 And, um, so now you've been awake for what, 96 hours at least.

00:38:23.020 And it's very common for guys to start hallucinating.

00:38:26.280 And I was, I was seeing fences, chain link fences out in the middle of the ocean.

00:38:32.280 And I'd tell the guys, we got to turn.

00:38:34.360 We're going to hit this fence.

00:38:35.360 Uh, I was seeing concrete walls that I was trying to steer around.

00:38:39.800 Um, I was hearing voices out in the middle of my, my buddy, he was telling me he saw a

00:38:44.920 witch standing out in the water.

00:38:47.160 And like, he told himself like, okay, that that's not there.

00:38:51.300 So I'm just going to look away.

00:38:52.540 And when I look back, it's going to be gone.

00:38:54.960 When he looked back, she was still there.

00:38:57.580 Um, so he was like, guys, we got to row faster.

00:38:59.920 This witch is going to get us. 1.00

00:39:01.100 Is it just from lack of sleep?

00:39:04.180 Is that what's causing the hallucinations?

00:39:07.240 Yeah.

00:39:07.960 Yeah.

00:39:08.260 Lack of sleep, man.

00:39:09.180 It is amazing.

00:39:10.320 The, uh, people really underestimate sleep and, uh, how good sleep is for you and how bad

00:39:17.060 it is for you when you don't sleep, how bad your brain starts to break down and your decision

00:39:21.520 making becomes or, and yeah, even when you're starting to hallucinate.

00:39:25.820 I was just talking to a doctor about this and we were talking about how, you know, some

00:39:29.040 people, they get up at the crack of dawn, pre pre crack of dawn to work out.

00:39:33.820 And that's fine.

00:39:34.680 As long as you've built in enough sleep prior to that point that you've gotten a good night,

00:39:39.000 you know, did you get your seven hours or did you get four hours so that you could get

00:39:41.920 up at 4am?

00:39:42.800 And he was saying they're completely missing the point because sleep is as important as

00:39:48.240 exercise and nutrition to your overall wellness, your, your mental wellness, your brain

00:39:52.880 function, your heart function, all of it.

00:39:54.440 And so unless you can get the seven hours before you get up at 4am, it doesn't make much sense

00:39:59.920 to do that just so you can work out.

00:40:01.740 You need both.

00:40:02.920 You need sleep.

00:40:05.480 A thousand percent.

00:40:06.900 And this is something that I really had to come to grips with.

00:40:09.420 I mean, I teach, you know, something called the Pentagon at peak performance and the base

00:40:13.140 level is physical leadership and sleep is a big component of that.

00:40:16.980 My whole life I've gotten up early, um, but I wasn't getting the, the, I need, I know

00:40:24.760 my body, I need a minimum six hours.

00:40:27.000 Seven is ideal for me to, to optimize.

00:40:30.580 And, uh, I wasn't getting that.

00:40:32.280 I was running, you know, I got to get up at five 30 every single morning.

00:40:36.040 Um, and, and in the last year, uh, my cortisol levels were high.

00:40:41.260 I was having, you know, some of these health issues.

00:40:43.340 And I, I said, okay, I'm going to force myself to get more sleep.

00:40:46.980 And it has reset a lot of things.

00:40:48.520 People just underestimate the power of sleep, especially, I mean, people in the business

00:40:52.960 world are guys who think they're really tough.

00:40:54.880 And they'll say to me, Hey, I, uh, you know, I get by on four hours sleep a night.

00:40:59.180 And I'm like, awesome, man.

00:41:00.620 Congratulations.

00:41:01.020 You are chronically fatigued and nowhere near the optimal self you could be. 1.00

00:41:06.160 And you'll be dead soon.

00:41:06.980 I mean, really it shortens lifespan.

00:41:08.440 So it's really, you can't sacrifice sleep, but work out and eat healthy. 1.00

00:41:13.560 That's, that's just dumb, dumb strategy. 0.99

00:41:15.400 All right. 0.99

00:41:15.880 So you, um, you're in the Navy, you, 9-11 happens.

00:41:20.680 You are deployed, uh, in Afghanistan, right?

00:41:24.480 In Afghanistan as an officer in 2004.

00:41:28.600 Is that correct?

00:41:30.740 Uh, I, I commissioned in 2004.

00:41:33.300 We went to Afghanistan in 2005.

00:41:35.340 Okay.

00:41:36.780 And this is where you, I think it's fair to say would face this major leadership challenge

00:41:41.900 that you referenced earlier in which you feel you fell down on the job.

00:41:45.720 So tell us what happened.

00:41:49.220 There's a little bit of a perfect storm.

00:41:51.700 Um, so I came into the Navy in 1992 into a peacetime military, man.

00:41:57.780 There's a, you know, there's a big difference in a peacetime military and a wartime military.

00:42:01.380 Um, I try to, you know, you nailed it when you said, when you signed up on 9-11, you had

00:42:06.060 no clue what was coming.

00:42:07.280 And that is a fact.

00:42:08.420 And I try and explain that to younger guys and gals in the military.

00:42:12.040 Um, you never know when something's going to happen.

00:42:16.360 None of us saw a 9-11 happening.

00:42:18.340 We went from total peacetime to total wartime.

00:42:21.140 Within, I think two or three years, all of the SEAL teams were a hundred percent combat

00:42:26.520 experienced.

00:42:27.040 And that was one of the goals, obviously.

00:42:29.600 So I actually, um, started school in the summer of 2001 and 9-11 happened, obviously

00:42:37.620 in September.

00:42:38.700 Um, myself and a couple of my teammates that were at school together, tried to get out

00:42:42.560 of the program.

00:42:43.060 Like, Hey, we know we're going to war, get us out, you know, let us go back to a platoon.

00:42:48.020 And one of our most respected leaders who had helped me get commission, I remember prophetically

00:42:53.060 said, Red, this war is going to go on for decades.

00:42:56.400 He's like, go back to school.

00:42:58.400 You will get your chance.

00:43:00.480 Um, so while I was at school, the community obviously was going off to war in both Iraq

00:43:06.380 and Afghanistan.

00:43:07.080 And one of the things that occurred was typically, uh, the military bases, tactics and strategies

00:43:15.780 off, uh, the last sustained combat.

00:43:19.740 And the SEAL team based a lot of our tactics off Vietnam.

00:43:23.040 That was the last time we had seen years of combat.

00:43:25.500 Well, when we got over to Iraq and Afghanistan, we quickly realized a lot of those old tactics

00:43:30.760 used in the jungles and the Mekong Delta and the swamps in Vietnam didn't necessarily apply

00:43:37.680 quite as well in the mountains and the urban and desert environments out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

00:43:42.260 Not only technology, the bands for vehicles.

00:43:44.360 So the bottom line, our tactics changed, uh, pretty drastically.

00:43:48.620 So here I was, this ex-enlisted guy who thought I was like, uh, God's gift to leadership,

00:43:54.020 the ego and arrogance kind of got the best of me.

00:43:56.440 And I came back when I got commissioned in 2004 thinking, man, I'm the man.

00:44:01.140 I know everything.

00:44:02.140 I'm going to step back.

00:44:03.140 I'm going to be like patent reincarnated or something.

00:44:06.460 And, uh, that really wasn't the case.

00:44:08.640 Uh, I stepped back in and, and technically I was probably one of the more inexperienced

00:44:13.340 guys because I didn't have combat experience and probably, um, 60% of our platoon at that

00:44:19.360 point definitely did.

00:44:20.500 And instead of humbling myself and saying, and not only that, all our tactics had changed.

00:44:26.560 So instead of humbling myself and saying to the guys, the young, younger guys who might

00:44:30.740 have been more experienced, Hey man, I don't know how to do this.

00:44:33.200 I made the mistake as a young leader saying, Oh, I'm a leader.

00:44:36.480 Like it's a sign of weakness.

00:44:37.900 If I say, I don't know how to do this, which is a fallacy.

00:44:41.160 It's, it's wrong.

00:44:42.240 Um, but in doing that, I, I started to damage my credibility as a leader.

00:44:49.880 Well, um, that was hurting me.

00:44:53.620 Uh, so when I recognized it was hurting me, so then what was the next thing I did?

00:44:57.840 Well, I started, I recognized that I was damaging my credibility.

00:45:00.660 I was stepping on my toes, uh, not keeping up like I should be.

00:45:06.120 And I started drinking away my stress.

00:45:10.320 Um, so then I became known as a drunk on top of everything else.

00:45:14.320 Um, fast forward, deployed Afghanistan in 2005 and the very first mission, um, we were getting

00:45:25.200 ready to transition over.

00:45:26.660 So operation red wings, uh, was our troop, um, Lieutenant commander, Eric Christensen was

00:45:32.480 my boss.

00:45:33.300 A lot of the guys that you will read about that were shot down on the helicopter and that

00:45:37.540 red wings is the, the lone survivor story for those that may be familiar with that.

00:45:41.820 If you've seen that movie or watched our red Marcus's book, we had a show last, last August

00:45:48.680 with his brother and it was just an incredibly compelling episode.

00:45:52.040 So they know the story.

00:45:54.200 Okay.

00:45:54.640 So, um, so I was a part of the troop.

00:45:58.500 Um, our sister platoon was a platoon that was on the helicopter for red wing that was

00:46:03.460 shot down.

00:46:04.040 We were getting ready to, um, fly to Afghanistan to turn over with those guys, uh, that following

00:46:10.580 week.

00:46:10.980 I think we were set to fly like right after the 4th of July.

00:46:14.520 And of course on June 28th, the helicopter was shot down.

00:46:17.760 So this was our first introduction to combat.

00:46:20.320 Um, uh, that's when I first, I met Marcus at the hospital.

00:46:24.120 Longstool Germany, uh, we stood watch on, uh, Mike Murphy and Danny Dietz's bodies.

00:46:30.060 They had not recovered, uh, Matt Axelson yet, um, flew to Afghanistan and the recovery was

00:46:36.400 underway.

00:46:36.760 And that's how our deployment started.

00:46:39.200 So here I was this knucklehead young officer, um, who was stepping on his toes, who now,

00:46:45.840 you know, got to, got to combat.

00:46:48.260 And I wanted to prove myself, you know, Hey, red wings happen.

00:46:51.580 And, you know, we want payback, which is okay.

00:46:54.580 That's fine.

00:46:55.540 Uh, but there is a balance as a leader.

00:46:58.960 We have to, you know, it should be the, the, the, the mission, then the men or the team

00:47:05.020 that you're working with.

00:47:05.780 And you're last on the equation.

00:47:07.220 Unfortunately, I inverted that.

00:47:08.720 And, you know, how do I make myself look like a, you know, a great leader and a great

00:47:14.100 hero.

00:47:14.660 And I may, I continue to make mistakes culminating with a bad call on a mission in, um, in September

00:47:21.600 of that deployment.

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00:47:57.040 That call, um, really did damage to my, my reputation.

00:48:03.800 Um, I am very fortunate that no one was, uh, injured or killed because of that call.

00:48:10.260 But what it did kill was my professional reputation.

00:48:13.500 By the time I got back out of that Valley, the guys were like, get rid of that guy.

00:48:17.880 Um, they were calling me Rambo red, which that is not a compliment, you know, for those

00:48:23.140 who think Rambo is really cool.

00:48:24.600 It's a cool movie.

00:48:25.760 It doesn't apply in the military.

00:48:27.220 It's kind of what we talked about before.

00:48:28.660 There's no room for individualism, especially a leader who is, um, made decisions based on

00:48:36.280 his glory.

00:48:37.080 And that was, I saw, I wanted to get in the fight and I saw an opportunity.

00:48:40.660 I took it and I am very fortunate that, that no one was killed because of my decision making.

00:48:46.140 So that, that started a whole new journey.

00:48:48.800 Um, because there were guys who said, kick that guy out.

00:48:52.500 And, um, and it was the lowest point I've ever hit in my life.

00:48:56.380 Um, I went and had to stand in front of my commanding officer and explain my, uh, my actions.

00:49:02.340 And I'll never forget.

00:49:03.800 He, he, there were guys in that room that were like, get rid of this guy. 0.99

00:49:07.180 He's going to get people killed.

00:49:08.400 Um, and, um, and my commanding officer told me to go back to my room and he would let 0.63

00:49:16.040 me know that the next morning, uh, what his decision was.

00:49:19.420 And I went back to my room and, uh, and I almost killed myself.

00:49:23.640 I put a gun in my mouth and I started to pull the trigger.

00:49:26.540 Um, but fortunately I think God intervening, I looked, I just, right about the time I did

00:49:34.180 it, I looked across, um, at the desk and there was a picture of my wife and kids and, you

00:49:39.160 know, just this voice was like, what are you doing?

00:49:42.060 You know, what are you doing?

00:49:43.140 What, what, what impact are you going to leave behind on them?

00:49:47.680 And, uh, I remember I, I put my gun away.

00:49:50.520 I went and sought out special operations chaplain and talked to him and we talked a lot and he

00:49:55.820 said, no matter what happens, you know, if they take your trident or if they kick you

00:49:59.060 out, then, you know, you've got to figure out what the path forward is, but never forget

00:50:03.140 for every, the end moment in your life, there becomes a new beginning.

00:50:05.840 It's up to you what you do with that new beginning.

00:50:08.160 This is a big part of what I talk on.

00:50:10.100 It's a part of, uh, my Ted talk that I talk on.

00:50:13.560 It's a part of what I speak on.

00:50:15.360 And he was absolutely right.

00:50:16.800 And thankfully, you know, credit to my commanding officer who did not kick me out, even though

00:50:22.360 he, he absolutely could have.

00:50:23.860 As a matter of fact, I'm actually surprised he didn't.

00:50:26.780 I mean, here's a guy who's grieving from the loss of 11 teammates only a couple months

00:50:32.000 earlier.

00:50:32.400 He didn't get to go home.

00:50:33.420 He didn't get to go to the memorial ceremony.

00:50:35.360 We had to stay and continue the mission.

00:50:37.740 So, and now he's got this knucklehead ensign who's making bad calls.

00:50:42.120 I mean, I think it would have been super easy for him to say, I don't have time to deal

00:50:45.240 with this, nor do I, nor do I have the emotional capacity to deal with this, but he didn't.

00:50:52.140 He said, you know what, Red, you've done some good things.

00:50:55.580 I believe in you.

00:50:56.600 I'm going to give you a second chance.

00:50:58.300 And he, he did.

00:50:59.740 I mean, there was some, uh, there was some punishment that came along with it.

00:51:02.620 They, uh, any awards I was supposed to get, they were attracted.

00:51:05.200 Um, I had to sign an unofficial letter of reprimand that was held in a commanding officer safe.

00:51:11.980 And if I had, uh, if I had messed up again, that letter would have gone into my permanent

00:51:16.740 officer record, which would have ended my career.

00:51:18.820 And, uh, and I got sent to us army ranger school, which, um, is probably one of the best

00:51:24.860 things that could have happened to me.

00:51:26.900 I mean, it's pretty cool.

00:51:27.680 I mean, to learn how to be a ranger and develop all those skills too, but you emerged out of

00:51:32.500 that with a whole new set of leadership skills.

00:51:36.100 I did, uh, ranger school.

00:51:39.000 Uh, I'd love to tell people that when I walked out of the office in Afghanistan, after getting 1.00

00:51:45.160 that second chance, I was immediately like, yes, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know,

00:51:50.460 recreate myself.

00:51:51.600 But, you know, sometimes in this life, our new beginnings take time.

00:51:55.560 And, uh, and, you know, I talk about this victim mindset.

00:51:59.360 I, I had a little bit of the victim mindset.

00:52:01.380 I, I was seeing myself as a victim that the guys threw me under the bus and I hadn't come

00:52:06.240 to grips yet with, you know, the only person that put himself there was me, my poor decision

00:52:11.040 making and really selfishly viewing, looking more at myself and not outward at the, at the

00:52:17.120 team and the mission and the impacts of that.

00:52:18.860 Um, and thankfully it was at ranger school that I really started to figure that out.

00:52:22.720 Um, you know, kind of a, uh, interesting side note in ranger school.

00:52:28.840 Um, I screwed up, I failed to land that test and seals are a little bit of anomaly.

00:52:35.000 We don't go through ranger school that often.

00:52:36.580 And, you know, there's that great professional rivalry between the army and the Navy.

00:52:41.280 And, um, and a lot of the rangers, I don't think liked me very much.

00:52:45.220 So they, they let me know it and gave me a lot of grief about being there.

00:52:49.640 And when I failed the land, of course, man, they laid into me, they, I'm sorry, land navigation.

00:52:55.120 This is, uh, orienting with a compass to figure out where you're going in the woods, in the

00:53:00.000 dark and all that.

00:53:01.540 And, um, and the ranger school land, of course, it's pretty long.

00:53:05.400 We started in the middle of the night and I had taught land that once again, ego and

00:53:09.220 arrogance, I thought I'll crush this course.

00:53:12.580 And I didn't, I failed it.

00:53:13.640 I missed a point.

00:53:15.140 Um, and the instructors were totally heckling me.

00:53:17.760 And in the moment I allowed my emotions to get the best of me.

00:53:20.680 And I basically told those instructors what I thought of them.

00:53:24.200 And they said, are you quitting?

00:53:25.760 And I said, yeah, I'm out of here.

00:53:28.080 Um, it's the only thing I've ever quit in my life.

00:53:30.500 Um, and, uh, so I had to go meet with the ranger colonel and, uh, and the ranger colonel

00:53:37.000 listened and he said, I think you should talk to one of your SEAL teammates.

00:53:40.540 And I'll be honest, I was utterly ashamed and embarrassed.

00:53:44.340 And I was like, I don't want to talk to anyone.

00:53:46.140 You know, I just want to crawl under a rock.

00:53:47.760 And like, I guess this is the end of my military career.

00:53:50.580 And he said, Hey, I'm friends with a, uh, that the guy's name is Colonel.

00:53:55.300 He was Colonel KK Chin back then.

00:53:58.000 He retired a two-star general and I had become friends with him because he really amazing guy,

00:54:03.420 amazing leader.

00:54:04.040 He saved my career.

00:54:04.880 And he ended up calling one of our most respected, uh, SEAL leaders who happened to be a mentor of

00:54:11.200 mine who had helped me get commissioned.

00:54:13.480 And he put me on the phone with him.

00:54:15.200 And I remember telling him this whole story, how, you know, I ended up there and he said,

00:54:18.900 Red, I know all about what happened with you.

00:54:21.240 Did you ever think that you're, you're seeing this as punishment?

00:54:24.580 He said, did you ever think you might learn something from this?

00:54:27.140 And I said, no.

00:54:30.040 Um, and, and then I told him, I said, but sir, no, one's ever going to follow me again.

00:54:36.020 I've made too many mistakes.

00:54:37.320 I don't think I can recover from this.

00:54:39.040 And then he gave me the foundational level of everything that I teach in leadership.

00:54:42.480 Now he said, Red, people will follow you. 0.78

00:54:44.120 If you give them a reason to that's it.

00:54:46.140 That's all leadership is.

00:54:47.400 He said, I don't care how bad you've messed up.

00:54:49.460 It's human nature that if someone is on the winning team, if someone is leading a team,

00:54:53.960 a community, a company to success, and they're a pretty good person, you know, despite any

00:54:59.640 mistakes they made in their past, it's human nature.

00:55:01.660 We're going to follow them.

00:55:02.320 We want, we all want to be on the winning team.

00:55:04.460 He said, so go back to ranger school, crush it, come back and give the guys a reason to

00:55:09.020 follow you.

00:55:09.800 And, uh, I was like, Roger that.

00:55:12.560 I hung up the phone and I, I looked at the ranger colonel and I said, will you put me back

00:55:16.240 in my class?

00:55:16.820 And he said, no, you quit.

00:55:18.220 You get to go sit in ranger school jail for a month and you'll class up with the next class.

00:55:22.880 So for a month, I walked around Fort Benning, picking up trash.

00:55:27.700 Uh, and it was probably the best thing that ever could have happened to me because it finally

00:55:31.480 humbled me.

00:55:32.220 And it gave me a lot of time to think about, I was the problem.

00:55:36.060 I was the problem.

00:55:36.960 And it was my lack of my own self-leadership, selfish leadership that put me there.

00:55:42.920 And it really changed, uh, everything.

00:55:46.120 I created a new, you know, my three rules of leadership that I now teach.

00:55:49.860 And, uh, and that enabled me to drive forward, graduate ranger school and slowly over the

00:55:56.080 next couple of years, build back my credibility as a leader.

00:56:00.160 This is what is so extraordinary about our military and some of the leaders who are in

00:56:04.420 it.

00:56:04.760 They somehow know when it's time to temper that extreme discipline and harsh, unforgiving training

00:56:12.200 with mercy and inspiration and encouragement that the best leaders do.

00:56:19.220 I mean, that's just a gift when you have a guy like that above you who knows you and

00:56:25.400 knows what you need in the moment, whether it's a kick in the pants or a lift.

00:56:30.260 That's I, I love that story.

00:56:32.100 And I, I love knowing that there are guys like that out there training the next generation

00:56:35.340 of warriors and, and that you're out there using these same skills to help civilians to

00:56:39.840 try to get through just life with some of these lessons that apply.

00:56:43.700 And, and, and our military.

00:56:45.840 I mean, I, I, I frequently speak to the military.

00:56:48.580 I've been fortunate enough to speak almost all the service academies, West Point.

00:56:52.380 All you have to do is call me.

00:56:53.620 I will come speak for you guys.

00:56:55.300 Yes.

00:56:55.480 And it's amazing.

00:56:56.440 It's so beautiful there.

00:56:57.220 You should go.

00:56:58.420 I know.

00:56:59.140 I want to, you know, I mean, I speak army.

00:57:01.800 I wear the ranger tab.

00:57:02.800 I speak army.

00:57:03.440 Yeah, exactly right.

00:57:05.380 Well, thank you for sharing that with me.

00:57:06.960 That's like with all of us.

00:57:08.160 That's, that's a very moving story.

00:57:10.060 That could be the most moving story of the exchange we have.

00:57:12.480 I feel like I learned so much already and we haven't even gotten to the, you know, apex

00:57:16.480 of everything that you've gone through.

00:57:18.400 I do, before we get to your injury and what happened, can we just spend a minute on Erica?

00:57:23.420 Because she's a huge part of your story.

00:57:26.040 And we kind of glanced by on my wife and my kids, by the way, when you told me about that

00:57:30.880 moment when you were feeling like you might take your own life and, you know, God stepped

00:57:35.660 in and stopped you.

00:57:36.380 I completely believe that was an angel.

00:57:38.280 That was an angel was sent to you to stop you in the same way.

00:57:41.100 I talked to Dakota Meyer last, last Memorial Day.

00:57:44.400 And he talked about the same thing.

00:57:45.840 It was back when he got stateside again now for him.

00:57:48.840 And he actually tried, he pulled the trigger.

00:57:51.160 He, he had the gun, pulled the trigger.

00:57:53.160 And an angel had taken the bullets out of the, out of the gun.

00:57:55.940 He thought it was loaded, which is, I feel like so many of you guys go through these

00:58:00.360 massive travails and emotional traumas, whether it's while you're serving or the buildup to

00:58:06.060 the serving, or just, you're so hard on yourself and you're so used to being able to do everything

00:58:10.900 at a high level, right?

00:58:12.440 And then when you have a failure, that's when you really get tested.

00:58:15.660 And I just think every once in a while, you need an angel to come help you.

00:58:20.080 And I agree with you that there, that God plays a role.

00:58:22.540 So I'm glad you had, I'm glad you had your faith to get you through.

00:58:26.660 All right.

00:58:27.220 So Erica, just to rewind now, cause we're in 2005, I think when you did army ranger school

00:58:31.620 and you had all that happened to you, but five years earlier, you'd been out on the

00:58:36.780 town.

00:58:37.720 What town were you in this back state side, right?

00:58:41.000 Louisville, Kentucky.

00:58:42.760 Louisville, Kentucky.

00:58:44.440 And you guys were out a bunch of you and you decided that night, for whatever reason,

00:58:47.380 you're going to pretend that you were all there as boxers, that you were there for some

00:58:50.760 big boxing match.

00:58:52.000 And you see this stunning blonde with a thousand watt smile from across the room. 1.00

00:58:59.060 And I mean, man, did you woo her your lines?

00:59:01.540 I mean, that they, they will live in infamy, but I just, so tell us how you managed to woo

00:59:08.340 this amazing woman into having a drink with you.

00:59:10.100 Um, well, she ditched me at first.

00:59:14.140 So, uh, once again, you know, tell me I can't do something.

00:59:17.420 And I hung out with the guys a little more and it was a great big place for any of you

00:59:21.440 that are familiar with Louisville, Kentucky.

00:59:23.060 It was the Phoenix Hill Tavern, which is a, you know, it's a huge warehouse type bar.

00:59:27.540 I had like, I don't know, three levels, six or seven bars in it.

00:59:31.100 And I'd gone upstairs at some point and I looked across the, uh, the upstairs bar area and she

00:59:38.720 was kind of across the room standing on top of this, I don't know, elevated structure.

00:59:44.300 And there was a guy talking to her and she, she just looked miserable.

00:59:48.160 Like I wish this guy would leave.

00:59:50.340 And I was like, yes, here's my chance.

00:59:54.440 So I, uh, I went up and I, I kind of jumped up on the platform with her and, uh, she seemed

01:00:00.940 rather shocked and the guy seemed rather perturbed, but I just kind of ignored him.

01:00:05.600 And finally he got the message and left and, and I don't know, we just hit it off.

01:00:10.060 There was kind of a natural chemistry that, uh, we, we talked from that point forward through

01:00:15.040 the rest of the night, uh, and ended up linking up with her the next day for a barbecue.

01:00:20.340 Um, which is kind of a funny story because, uh, she didn't mention that she had a young

01:00:28.640 son who was four months old, um, um, or six months old at that time.

01:00:35.440 And literally we opened the door and she like handsome to me here, hold awesome. 0.99

01:00:40.360 And, um, and then, and then she's like, Hey, by the way, we have a new grill.

01:00:47.600 So can you put the grill together?

01:00:49.900 So, uh, so yeah, that was kind of our first date.

01:00:52.620 I put this grill together for a barbecue.

01:00:54.640 Get him trained early.

01:00:55.100 I like this girl.

01:00:56.020 Like this is how it's going to be.

01:00:57.320 You're going to help me with my son.

01:00:58.320 You're going to put my grill together and, uh, I'm going to do things for you too.

01:01:01.820 So yeah, I remember I read from your book, your opening line was, um, hi, I'm Jay.

01:01:09.140 How are you doing?

01:01:10.400 Can I buy you a drink?

01:01:11.440 I cringed at my lack of wit and charm and the weakest pickup line ever. 0.96

01:01:16.160 What the hell?

01:01:16.880 That's the best I've got. 0.83

01:01:18.100 But you know what?

01:01:19.160 That's really all it takes.

01:01:20.420 Any like faux attempt to be overly clever is usually seen right through.

01:01:24.700 So I think, you know, you did the right thing, obviously, because it all worked out.

01:01:28.100 So you wound up getting married, you married Erica, and you had two additional children,

01:01:33.600 two daughters.

01:01:34.620 So those are the three, uh, kids and the wife and the family that you referenced, uh, when,

01:01:39.880 when the times were tough.

01:01:41.320 Uh, and she's still with us. 0.98

01:01:43.380 I mean, she's still with you and we'll get to all of that, but I, I love the story of Erica.

01:01:47.660 So now we're post Ranger school and you got to go back out there.

01:01:51.880 And is this, it was what it was May of 2007 that you were deployed to Fallujah.

01:01:58.980 And oh my God, can I tell you, Jay, I, whenever I even hear Fallujah, I brace myself.

01:02:04.600 It's just like, all the stories are awful.

01:02:08.040 They're just all awful.

01:02:09.960 They're terrible.

01:02:11.180 Just so many bad things happen there.

01:02:13.140 And it just seems like it went so poorly and it was so incredibly violent and dark.

01:02:18.540 And our guys were just overwhelmed time after time and kept fighting and the sacrificing.

01:02:24.100 So I, it's already a trigger, I think, for a lot of people who covered the news, you know,

01:02:29.160 as I was doing at that time, nevermind the guys who actually lived it.

01:02:32.440 So you knew going over there at that point, high, high levels of danger here.

01:02:37.640 Yes.

01:02:37.920 Yeah, absolutely.

01:02:41.260 I mean, we, the, the, um, Jocko's deployment was, uh, 2006 prior to us operating out of Ramadi.

01:02:51.360 And a lot of the guys who are operating prior to us, all, Fallujah, Ramadi, and Havana are the big cities in the Ambar province.

01:02:57.920 And, um, a lot of the fighting had intensified in 06 and 07, um, really heavily, um, the second big battle, uh, you know, a large battle occurred in Belusia in 06.

01:03:13.180 The Ambar awakening had occurred. 0.99

01:03:15.420 So a lot of the local tribal shakes had finally, I think, had enough.

01:03:20.400 And whereas before they weren't really cooperating much with the, um, the coalition forces, the American government and the American military machine.

01:03:29.640 I think finally, they said, if we don't cooperate with them, we're never going to be able to get our country back.

01:03:34.340 So what started to happen was in 06 and 07, they started feeding us real intelligence at, which enabled us to really start going after, uh, Al Qaeda and insurgent leadership.

01:03:45.100 So I will say as SEALs, even though we knew it was, you know, a high level of danger, it also was everything we had ever trained to, um, you know, at the pinnacle of special operations.

01:03:58.160 And, um, you know, we got exposed to a lot of direct action going to those leaders, but also even at one point, um, trying to rescue, uh, uh, an army, uh, an army soldier and a Marine.

01:04:20.620 And I just, those moments stood out in my mind, like how amazing it was that I was part of a unit that had trained to the level that these were the things that we could do.

01:04:30.500 So we had a lot of close calls on that deployment, but it also, I was with one of the best troops I've ever been a part of.

01:04:37.340 Um, it gave me an opportunity to grow as a leader, um, and, and learn and really put a lot of the new leadership things that I had incorporated into my life, starting a ranger school on this very intense combat deployment.

01:04:52.060 You were second in command?

01:04:55.000 Yes.

01:04:55.480 Okay.

01:04:57.340 And you'd been over there for quite a few months when I think it was September, uh, rolled around and you were out on such a mission as you just described, trying to take down this relatively high level leader.

01:05:10.600 Um, and you'd been given some Intel about where you could find him and you guys moved in to do exactly that.

01:05:18.300 And what happened, uh, to make a long story short, we walked into a very well executed ambush.

01:05:26.100 Um, the, the initial building we took down, they were not there, but we found a lot of signs that someone had recently been there while we were, um, collecting intelligence and we had found IUD making components.

01:05:40.900 And we were going to blow all that stuff up.

01:05:42.820 Our snipers saw, uh, a bunch of activity on another building about 150 yards away.

01:05:48.480 So my boss had me take, um, about nine members of my team, myself and eight other members, uh, seven seals and our interpreter and, uh, and move on, uh, this other building where we had seen individuals come out of the front door and run across street into this vegetation.

01:06:08.620 Um, um, what we didn't know was our number one Al Qaeda leader for the Anbar province.

01:06:15.980 He had been in our original building we were in and he had moved to that building and he had, he had about a 15 man security detail that that set up an ambush line in the vegetation across the street.

01:06:29.500 And, uh, and those individuals we saw go out the door were the last part of his security detail that were part of that ambush line.

01:06:36.600 And, uh, and my team and I walked unfortunately right into that ambush.

01:06:41.780 I mean, we were, we, we, we knew that there was enemy.

01:06:45.820 Um, we had air assets overhead.

01:06:47.860 We had the, uh, air force AC 130 gunship that we were talking to and Hey, can you see weapons?

01:06:53.460 They couldn't see anything.

01:06:54.800 Um, so, you know, and, and we had seen this before we weren't just walking blindly.

01:07:00.500 I mean, we had, we had seen cases where the enemy would hide, not recognizing, you know, the, you know, technology and things like that.

01:07:09.720 Um, so unfortunately, yeah, we walked into a very well executed ambush.

01:07:14.160 Uh, my, my medic was initially hit, taken around directly below the knee.

01:07:18.880 Um, and then, uh, one of our other guys, Maddie ran forward, grabbed our medic, started to drag him back.

01:07:26.520 Maddie was shot up the right side, two rounds in his leg, one in his arms, still managed strong enough to pull himself and, uh, and loop back to, back to the tire behind us.

01:07:37.980 Uh, there was like a large tractor tire, nothing but thousands of yards of empty Iraqi desert.

01:07:42.620 And there was kind of a large John Deere style tractor tire.

01:07:46.520 And then there was a tree, maybe, I don't know, 10 yards away from that tractor tire.

01:07:51.660 And DJ fell back to the tree.

01:07:53.960 Everybody else was behind the tractor.

01:07:56.120 I was still out front at this point.

01:07:58.100 Uh, I was trying to lay down fire when, uh, both machine guns turned on me and I was, uh, stitched across the body armor.

01:08:07.020 I took two rounds in the left elbow, which I thought shot my arm off in the moment.

01:08:11.300 I took rounds off my gun, rounds off my helmet.

01:08:15.240 I had my left night vision tube shot off.

01:08:17.360 I took rounds off my right side plate, um, turned to try and move back to the guys.

01:08:22.520 And it was at this point that I caught a round in the face.

01:08:25.140 It hit me right in front of the ear, traveled through my face, exited the right side of my nose, took off most of my nose, blew out my right cheekbone.

01:08:33.360 What was left in the cheek broke and kicked out to the right.

01:08:35.980 Um, the bullet traveled right under my eye, vaporized my orbital floor, broke all the bones above my eye.

01:08:42.740 I fell in this newfound hole in my face.

01:08:44.980 It broke the head of my jaw and shattered my jaw to my chin.

01:08:48.560 And, uh, and it knocked me out.

01:08:51.120 Um, the, the, the guys saw me fall and initially thought I was dead.

01:08:55.120 Um, thankfully, um, you know, a tribute to the SEAL teams and how we train, we don't leave anybody behind.

01:09:03.240 And they could have easily said, red's dead.

01:09:05.720 Let's continue to try and fall back or whatever we can do.

01:09:08.960 Um, but I was, you know, pinned down probably 15 yards in front of them while this literal gunfight was happening directly over me.

01:09:16.000 Um, and when I came to, I realized I was still in this gunfight.

01:09:20.720 I realized that I was totally unable to do anything.

01:09:23.760 And thankfully my team lead, um, Jay, uh, who combat experience, SEAL, um, what we call a JTAC.

01:09:32.580 He is trained to coordinate airstrikes from, um, aircraft to the ground.

01:09:37.980 And, um, Jay coordinated and said, Hey, to the AC-130, we need an immediate, um, we need an immediate fire mission.

01:09:46.540 And unfortunately we were so close.

01:09:48.720 I was only 45 feet from the machine gun that had me pinned down.

01:09:52.860 And that's well, well, well within danger, close parameters.

01:09:57.260 And the gunship said, no way we can bring this. 0.99

01:09:59.920 We're going to kill you guys if we do.

01:10:02.340 And, um, so they said, Hey, you need to figure out a way to fall back. 0.98

01:10:06.040 So gunfight went on for another five minutes or so.

01:10:10.460 Uh, the entire gunfight lasted about 35 to 40 minutes.

01:10:14.540 Um, Jay called for another one.

01:10:17.400 They said no on the third attempt, probably after 15 minutes, he basically said, Hey, look, you know, if you don't bring in this fire mission, there's not going to be anybody left.

01:10:27.140 You know, I got people critically wounded.

01:10:28.980 Uh, we're running out of ammo.

01:10:30.840 Like you have to bring in this fire mission.

01:10:32.920 You know, it was at that point, they basically put the onus on him.

01:10:36.340 They made him give his JTAC designator number, meaning the training that our joint tactical air control controllers go through.

01:10:43.560 And they basically say they have the ability to do this job.

01:10:46.900 They understand all the ordinance.

01:10:48.140 They understand all the danger close parameters and they made him read off his, his JTAC number or give his JTAC number that basically said, you're acknowledging that we may potentially kill you if we bring this strike in.

01:11:01.780 And, um, and, um, and Jay did an amazing job coordinating that.

01:11:06.520 Um, I remember him calling out to me incoming and, um, the aircraft flies at a pretty high altitude and you can hear the gun go off.

01:11:15.640 And then there's a delay probably five or six seconds before the rounds hit the ground.

01:11:19.620 And I remember hearing the, you know, of the gun up overhead and the enemy was still firing.

01:11:25.980 So machine guns turning away and all of a sudden, you know, explosions incurred in front of us and blew up over us.

01:11:33.480 And all of a sudden that, that gun went cold, that machine gun in front of me that had me pinned down, went cold.

01:11:38.820 And I heard the enemy like crying out, um, to Allah, Allah, Allah Akbar.

01:11:44.700 And I remember thinking to myself, stand by, man.

01:11:47.200 Like here he comes.

01:11:48.220 And sure enough, next rounds came in, uh, which took him out, took other enemy out.

01:11:54.400 Um, Jay came forward at this point, grabbed me, got me back to the tire, got a tourniquet on me.

01:11:59.760 I owe my life to him.

01:12:01.360 And, uh, and we ended up calling in, uh, I think eight or nine more fire missions before we were able to bring in the medevac, um, you know, to, to get us out of there.

01:12:13.460 Oh my God.

01:12:15.480 What's Jay's full name?

01:12:19.300 Um, I think it's okay for it to be out there.

01:12:22.700 So Jay Ali Austin, I was with him this weekend and this was a conversation we had.

01:12:27.440 So this is kind of the first time, but he told me he's okay with being out there more before I had not, we had not talked about it or I had not given his name, but I, I, I, I owe my life to him.

01:12:40.760 I love that man.

01:12:42.380 Uh, and all my teammates, I owe my life to my teammates and that gunship.

01:12:45.960 I mean, you know, people want to say, oh, you're so tough, you know, maybe, but I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for those guys.

01:12:52.720 I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for that gunship up overhead.

01:12:55.940 And that's what frustrates me with the military right now, with this focus on individualism, like it is the team effort.

01:13:03.880 It is, um, all different, you know, it's, it's all of us together from different backgrounds and different demographics and different race and creeds.

01:13:14.280 And all these different things that, that come together for a very unified mission.

01:13:19.080 In this case, that mission was to make sure that we all came home alive or at a minimum, you know, if I had died, they would have brought, you know, hopefully my body home to, to Erica and the kids.

01:13:29.940 But thankfully, you know, I, I was able to hang on and they did a great job fighting in that gunship.

01:13:36.080 So, um, rightfully so, um, the gunship was decorated.

01:13:41.160 I don't feel like our guys were decorated enough.

01:13:43.900 I am going to come back around.

01:13:45.480 It's something I've been talking about with them, about resubmitting them for, um, uh, award reviews.

01:13:52.700 But, um, but I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for those guys.

01:13:55.880 Hmm. We took some hits, obviously, but we didn't lose a single guy and the other guys did.

01:14:04.860 There was, there was no one.

01:14:07.060 The enemy leader got away.

01:14:08.560 He got away long before this gunfight ever occurred.

01:14:10.960 They came out in the ambush.

01:14:12.400 He managed to sneak out the back of the house, but everybody that engaged us, uh, there was no one left to go home and talk about it.

01:14:20.160 He got away, but not for long.

01:14:22.640 Not for long.

01:14:23.440 Uh, another team ended up about four months later, uh, finishing the job.

01:14:29.720 Good.

01:14:29.940 We got him.

01:14:30.840 We got him eventually.

01:14:32.200 So you, what next thing you know, you wake up where they take you to the hospital and it's an incredible story.

01:14:38.840 You sort of coming back to consciousness and starting to process what's happened to you.

01:14:45.820 Um, yeah, so they initially, um, normally had injuries go to Balad, but I was so critical.

01:14:53.600 They flew me directly to Baghdad, um, got to Baghdad and I'll be honest.

01:14:58.360 I don't, I don't think I thought I was going to make it.

01:15:00.760 Um, but thankfully, you know, and this is a shout out to the amazing military medical teams and the trauma surgeons.

01:15:09.200 A lot of people don't know that the greatest advances in trauma medicine are made in war.

01:15:14.760 And it's incredible.

01:15:15.880 There are a lot of civilian trauma doctors and orthopedic surgeons and all kinds of anesthesiologists that volunteer to go over to the war zone in these dangerous places.

01:15:24.760 And literally some of the best and the brightest doctors in the world end up coming and helping to save our, our, our wounded.

01:15:32.600 And, uh, they're so good.

01:15:34.780 I knew that, um, if you made it to the hospital with a pulse, you had a 90% chance of making it at home alive.

01:15:42.360 And I hung on to that fact, like a lifeline as I flew that medevac helicopter and, uh, drifted in and out of consciousness.

01:15:49.780 So I got there, they saved me.

01:15:52.740 I remember waking up and I was so elated to know that I was, I was still alive.

01:15:57.220 I also was, uh, fascinated because I thought my arm had been shot off.

01:16:01.780 And I remember learning that I still had an arm, uh, gravely damaged.

01:16:06.680 Uh, later they would talk about amputating it and they would keep it.

01:16:09.780 But in the beginning I was, I was happy for that.

01:16:13.300 Um, and I remember my commanding officer and my command mass chief were there in the hospital as I woke up.

01:16:20.260 Um, and, uh, I remember going to talk and I couldn't talk.

01:16:24.320 And the nurse said, Hey, you know, Lieutenant, you're, you're, you're traked, you know, you're, you're messed up.

01:16:30.300 You're wired shut and you're traked.

01:16:31.860 You're not going to be able to talk.

01:16:33.000 So I said, okay, give me a piece of paper.

01:16:35.140 And I wrote down three questions.

01:16:36.660 I said, um, I said, are my guys okay?

01:16:40.200 And they told me that, uh, that Luke and, and Matt were out of surgery and that they were going to be okay.

01:16:47.160 And I said, okay, has my wife been notified?

01:16:49.940 And, uh, that's a, that's a funny story or a kind of a crazy story in itself.

01:16:54.600 But, um, at this point she had been notified.

01:16:57.740 Um, although my commanding officer did not know my mental state and that was a real concern of theirs with this head injury.

01:17:05.280 They didn't know the angle of the bullet.

01:17:07.080 They only knew I had been shot in the face.

01:17:08.640 So they didn't know if I did survive, what level of mental, um, did I have a major traumatic brain injury or anything like that?

01:17:16.700 So, uh, he would later call her after this and let her know I was doing okay.

01:17:21.620 So that was the second question.

01:17:23.340 And the third question, I don't know why I asked this.

01:17:25.040 I said, do I still look pretty?

01:17:26.980 And, uh, and they told me no. 0.69

01:17:30.540 They told me no, that getting shot in the face would probably be an improvement.

01:17:33.420 And it actually was, uh, I used to have like a big old Tom Cruise nose.

01:17:38.080 So two facts, Jay and I were actually joking about this, that I had a big old Tom Cruise nose that I had broken.

01:17:44.220 And, uh, I had a deviated septum that right before that deployment, I had gone to see about surgery to fix it.

01:17:50.280 And they told me I would be down for like two months.

01:17:52.780 So I was like, I'll wait till after deployment.

01:17:55.280 And then, uh, and then obviously they shot my nose off.

01:17:59.160 So, uh, I got a brand new nose.

01:18:02.420 Thanks to you.

01:18:03.120 So if you've ever wondered about where your tax dollars go, this one made a difference.

01:18:08.960 I have to tell you, I've been looking at you and I've been looking at your before pictures

01:18:12.960 and you actually are better looking now.

01:18:15.760 Your nose is obviously a little crooked, but you just look like a little bit more.

01:18:20.980 Grizzly.

01:18:21.700 I don't like the long hair and the beard and like the eyebrows or something's working about it.

01:18:26.300 You looked a little bit more clean cut before.

01:18:28.060 And this look is a little bit better for like the Navy SEAL who served the car.

01:18:32.260 I'm digging it.

01:18:32.940 So I think, I'm sure Erica backs me up on this, but I, I think you look amazing.

01:18:37.260 She does.

01:18:37.500 She likes, uh, the longer hair and the beard.

01:18:39.900 Thank you, Megan Kelly.

01:18:40.900 I appreciate that.

01:18:41.720 Yeah, it's working for you.

01:18:42.860 It's working for you.

01:18:43.520 I mean, there were easier ways of getting there, but yeah, you managed to find your way through.

01:18:48.200 So can we talk about the time you talk, you, you first, the first thing you said to Erica

01:18:51.560 when you talked to her, cause it's sort of to, it evidences your mental state.

01:18:55.700 And while some people thought it was a little surprising, it's a great story about how you

01:19:00.320 telegraphed to her.

01:19:01.060 You were fine.

01:19:03.020 Yeah.

01:19:03.560 So, um, so I went from Baghdad where they stabilized and saved my life to Balad.

01:19:09.020 And then they moved me to Germany.

01:19:11.180 It was in Germany.

01:19:12.080 I had some more stabilization surgeries and one of my teammates flew with me and I, obviously

01:19:16.760 I could not talk.

01:19:17.800 So Erica had not, and I had not talked at all.

01:19:20.640 Um, she was trying to get everything taken care of with the kids.

01:19:23.980 And, and she knew, um, they had told her approximately when I would get to Bethesda.

01:19:30.160 So she was trying to get ready for that.

01:19:32.360 And, um, so my, my teammate, um, who was there with me was like, do you want to call Erica?

01:19:39.740 And I said, yes, let's do this.

01:19:41.920 I said, you know, you talk to her, I'll write down what to say to her.

01:19:44.800 And, uh, so I don't remember the first couple of things might've been, Hey babe, I, I got,

01:19:50.660 I'm sure you've heard, I got all banged up.

01:19:52.980 Uh, and the second thing I said, but my wangs okay.

01:19:57.560 And, uh, and, you know, and military members will fully understand this because, you know,

01:20:04.360 as service members, unfortunately with IEDs and everything else, I mean, that is a fear,

01:20:08.840 um, you know, obviously.

01:20:11.820 And, uh, and it was kind of a running joke.

01:20:14.660 Uh, so when I told her that it let her know immediately that he's okay, his sense of humor

01:20:21.360 is still intact.

01:20:23.720 Um, so.

01:20:25.920 As is the Wang.

01:20:26.700 So good news on multiple fronts.

01:20:29.320 Absolutely.

01:20:30.040 I love this too.

01:20:30.900 This is from, um, from your book.

01:20:33.060 Uh, when you, when you were talking to Gil, who was the one who was answering the questions

01:20:37.220 for you, uh, your wife has been notified.

01:20:39.460 I spoke to her myself.

01:20:40.160 I try to not, I want to thank him, but the trach of my wire job reclude that Gil then

01:20:44.400 adds, I response to your third question.

01:20:46.300 And the guys wanted me to tell you, you never look pretty.

01:20:50.600 It's great.

01:20:51.920 It feels good to be insulted at certain low points in your life.

01:20:55.280 It's actually a pick me up.

01:20:58.160 It's one of the great, it's one of the things I miss the most, uh, now that I'm out of the

01:21:02.000 military, especially this day and age where like we've created it once again, the

01:21:06.240 victim mindset, you know, Oh my God, if you say this about me, I must be insulted.

01:21:11.600 Even though half the time people say things that are unjust, Oh my God, how dare you joke

01:21:16.300 about, I don't know, anything today.

01:21:19.320 Uh, and in the SEAL teams, there was nothing off limits.

01:21:22.160 I mean, we would poke fun at anything and everything, including when I was injured.

01:21:25.860 I got, I mean, one of the guys showed up in the hospital, I'm wired shut with my face

01:21:29.240 blown out and he showed up with beef jerky.

01:21:31.480 Um, so, I mean, that's the type of humor and I mean, you know, this life is too short

01:21:39.760 to take yourself that seriously.

01:21:41.340 And that's, I've missed that the most.

01:21:43.620 Um, yeah, yeah, I can see why.

01:21:46.720 So you, I mean, we're not going to go through it all, but you did you 39 surgeries.

01:21:53.160 Yeah, 40 when it's all said and done, although Erica also known as the long haired admiral 0.97

01:22:00.660 tells me that, uh, the last two don't count because they were kidney stone surgeries, but

01:22:05.080 I'm like, I've had 40 surgeries since I was wounded.

01:22:07.760 So, I mean, was that, I, not to ask like another dumb question, but like, was that traumatic?

01:22:14.360 Like a surgery of any kind, I haven't just had C-sections, but I mean, it's traumatic and

01:22:20.980 just that alone, nevermind after a massive injury and a battlefield and the, you know,

01:22:25.840 the, the emotional trauma of all that, like, how did you handle that many times in and

01:22:31.060 under the knife?

01:22:33.500 So it's interesting.

01:22:34.540 I mean, you know, I tell people once again, a lot of people assume that my battlefield injuries

01:22:40.080 were like the worst thing that ever happened to me, but that failure as a leader, you know,

01:22:45.460 God works in mysterious ways.

01:22:47.540 It prepared me to deal with all this adversity, that journey back, having to take small incremental

01:22:53.760 steps to build back my credibility and reputation, the leadership lessons that I had built in myself.

01:23:00.080 And when I was in the hospital, I told myself, Hey man, this, this is no different from that

01:23:04.160 journey.

01:23:04.460 Now it's a medical journey.

01:23:05.580 I said, this is medical buds, um, which buds is the acronym for seal training, basic underwater

01:23:10.740 demolition, seal training.

01:23:11.960 I said, this is medical buds.

01:23:14.100 You know, you don't have to like it, but you have to do it and we have to go.

01:23:17.760 And I wanted to be operational again.

01:23:21.240 So I knew I had to go through all these surgeries if I even remotely had a chance at doing that.

01:23:27.320 Um, so every surgery, the doctors used to laugh because literally I would be in the, um, post-op

01:23:33.460 and one of my very first questions after they would tell me how the surgery went would be,

01:23:38.740 I'd write out, when can we schedule the next one?

01:23:41.780 Let's get it on the schedule now.

01:23:43.980 Um, cause I wanted to just, you know, churn and burn.

01:23:47.420 I wanted to try and recover as quickly as I could, uh, which ended up to, you know, battlefield

01:23:53.440 injuries are really dirty.

01:23:54.760 I had a lot of infection problems.

01:23:56.300 There were a lot of setbacks.

01:23:57.500 I mean, it ended up taking almost four years to put me back together.

01:24:00.880 Hmm.

01:24:02.620 Well, I've gotten ahead of myself because immediately post the massive injury before the 39, 40

01:24:09.700 surgeries, I'm kind of with Erica.

01:24:11.680 I don't think we can call the, I don't think we can count the stones.

01:24:14.440 Um, you posted the infamous sign, the sign, the famous sign, not infamous that, that connotes

01:24:21.540 something bad.

01:24:22.560 Um, and that's how you came to be so memorable in my own life.

01:24:26.760 Uh, hearing that story after meeting you when your face was still pretty banged up was just

01:24:33.240 incredible.

01:24:33.780 I mean, it was a true inspiration to me as a human and it's inspired countless of numbers

01:24:39.140 of others since then.

01:24:40.920 So just set the stage for, we're going to read it, but just set the stage for where you

01:24:46.260 were and what made you realize you needed to post a sign like the one we're going to

01:24:52.420 discuss.

01:24:52.760 So I'd probably only been in the hospital about a week, I would say seven days, give

01:24:58.820 or take.

01:24:59.780 Um, and, and I will admit, I struggled a little bit in the beginning.

01:25:02.880 I think there's this big spike of elation, like I survived.

01:25:06.500 Um, and then the reality kind of set in that I am really messed up.

01:25:11.920 Um, doctors were telling me it was going to be months to put at a minimum.

01:25:16.880 Um, or let me rephrase that.

01:25:18.800 Doctors were telling me it was going to be years to put me back together.

01:25:21.460 Whereas I thought it'd only take a few months.

01:25:24.400 Um, the prognosis was not good.

01:25:26.920 My, my elbow was totally destroyed.

01:25:29.180 I had no use in my left hand.

01:25:30.900 There was massive nerve damage, obviously the massive amount of, of damage to my face.

01:25:37.500 Um, and I just, um, I was kind of struggling.

01:25:42.860 I felt like a monster.

01:25:44.360 Um, you know, I was really scared before I saw Erica the first time I was really scared.

01:25:50.360 She is a rock star.

01:25:52.100 That's how she earned her name.

01:25:53.180 The long haired admiral.

01:25:54.220 And she didn't bat an eye.

01:25:55.300 So I had her, but I was kind of struggling with where do I go from here?

01:25:59.680 How do I overcome this?

01:26:01.060 Um, you know, pain and, and I'm disfigured.

01:26:05.300 I felt like I'd be a monster for the rest of my life.

01:26:07.720 Um, and, uh, and I had some individuals that came into the room and we, we had a short conversation.

01:26:16.120 And then I, I guess I maybe was drifting off and they were talking amongst themselves.

01:26:20.460 And if any of you have been in that, you know, that in between awake and you're not quite

01:26:25.960 asleep, you can still hear the sounds, the TVs.

01:26:28.980 Yeah.

01:26:29.220 And I, I caught bits and pieces of their conversation and, um, and I don't, I don't fault them.

01:26:37.580 Uh, there are some people that are like, how rude, how do you, how could they have that

01:26:40.680 conversation in your room?

01:26:42.300 Military hospital is really hard place to be during a time of war.

01:26:45.440 There are young men and women that are blown apart, uh, missing limbs, traumatic brain injuries.

01:26:50.560 It is very overwhelming to see this many young people.

01:26:53.520 And, uh, and they were there and I think they were caught up in this and they started having

01:26:57.900 a conversation about what a shame, what a pity we send these young men and women off to war

01:27:01.800 and they come home broken and battered and they'll never be the same.

01:27:05.560 And then they left and, uh, Erica had gone down to get a cup of coffee or something. 0.61

01:27:10.060 So I was in my room by myself, just thinking about this.

01:27:12.660 It kind of woke me up and I was, I was both angry and like, is that going to be me?

01:27:19.080 Am I going to be this, um, broken veteran, um, you know, that, that is never successful

01:27:28.260 again.

01:27:28.620 Am I going to be like Lieutenant Dan from the movie, Forrest Gump, you know, the beginning

01:27:32.800 of the movie, hookers and booze, Lieutenant Dan, not, not, you've got new legs, Lieutenant

01:27:37.360 Dan.

01:27:38.600 And, um, I just, I wrestled with it for a few minutes and then I went back to everything

01:27:44.840 that I had been through.

01:27:45.780 And when I try to explain to people is that the victim mindset focuses on all the negativity.

01:27:54.240 It focuses on it's unfair.

01:27:56.760 You know, I'm never going to be better.

01:27:58.380 We focus on the immediate here and now, not recognizing that the greatest gift you have

01:28:03.960 in this life is you have a choice.

01:28:06.520 No one forces you to lay there and feel sorry for yourself.

01:28:09.720 I don't care what situation you're in.

01:28:11.780 As long as your brain is still working, you have free will and you have the ability to

01:28:16.880 decide how you're going to handle this situation, no matter how bad and uncomfortable and unpleasant

01:28:21.780 it may be.

01:28:22.880 And it was in that moment when Erica walked back into the room, I said, never again, that

01:28:26.620 is never going to happen again.

01:28:28.000 From this point forward, I will never feel sorry for myself again.

01:28:32.040 And I will not allow anybody else to come in this room and feel sorry for me.

01:28:36.940 And I asked her for my pen and paper and I wrote out this sign and it said, attention

01:28:41.640 to all who enter here.

01:28:43.000 If you're coming in this room with sadness or sorrow, go elsewhere.

01:28:46.680 The wounds I received, I got in a job that I love, doing it for people that I love, defending

01:28:49.960 the freedom of a country I deeply love.

01:28:52.420 I will make a full recovery.

01:28:53.860 What is full?

01:28:54.420 That's the absolute utmost physically.

01:28:56.600 I have the ability to recover.

01:28:57.540 And I'm going to push that about 20% further through sheer mental tenacity.

01:29:01.940 This room you're about to enter is a room of fun, optimism, and intense rapid regroup.

01:29:06.380 And we signed it to management.

01:29:08.140 And the original sign was put on a regular piece of paper that I've been writing on.

01:29:14.320 But later, Erica went and bought that large orange red piece of poster paper.

01:29:19.620 And we transcribed it word for word, put it on the door.

01:29:22.920 A teammate tact has tried it into it.

01:29:25.160 And a New York firefighter wrote a blog about it.

01:29:28.760 And it went viral.

01:29:29.680 It went all over the place.

01:29:30.720 It was all over the news.

01:29:32.960 To date, you know, it has been written about in multiple books.

01:29:36.180 Secretary Robert Gates wrote about it.

01:29:38.380 First Lady Michelle Obama wrote about it twice in her book, Becoming Michelle.

01:29:42.880 Sent me a handwritten note on how much it moved her.

01:29:45.760 And it has now earned me an invitation to the White House to meet President Bush, who signed it.

01:29:53.080 And we had it framed and dedicated.

01:29:55.480 I didn't feel like it was mine.

01:29:56.740 I felt like it belonged to the hospital and the other wounded warriors.

01:29:59.720 And it now hangs in Walter Reed in the middle of the wounded ward and continues to motivate and inspire other wounded warriors.

01:30:07.700 And now it's been amazing.

01:30:08.620 I mean, I don't know, hundreds of thousands of people who have written me and said, hey, I put your sign on the door.

01:30:13.880 I have cancer.

01:30:15.140 I've been injured or my kid has been injured or my kid has cancer.

01:30:18.520 You know, thank you.

01:30:19.560 So you just never know the power of positivity and choosing to drive forward despite the hardship and adversity we face.

01:30:27.260 And that's what that sign is.

01:30:28.820 People will follow if you give them something to follow.

01:30:34.280 Like who knew, who knew that maybe your most important role in these conflicts would be helping severely wounded guys coming back with no hope understand that there was a way out.

01:30:48.540 And it began with attitude and the decisions about how you'd handle what happened to you and who would have access to you in this, your most vulnerable time.

01:30:57.760 Right. I mean, I'm sure we have no idea the number of people you've helped, even outside the military, as you point out, people in cancer wards who read that message and remind themselves, I have a choice here.

01:31:11.140 And the choice I make really could be the difference between life and death.

01:31:14.960 It really could.

01:31:16.180 Well, and to lift up those around you, that was one of my big goals.

01:31:19.720 Like I wanted to set the example for my kids.

01:31:22.220 I wanted to set the example for Erica.

01:31:24.000 I wanted to set the example for other wounded warriors around me.

01:31:26.960 Um, and I think that's such a powerful thing because you can't, we may not be able to change the situation we're in.

01:31:35.180 Um, you know, we've got to navigate through that.

01:31:37.560 We've got to navigate through the pain and the misery and all the things that were, but we, we definitely can change.

01:31:43.340 We can be what I like to say.

01:31:45.460 It's one of the shirts where we created, be the light in the darkness, be the light, you know, in those dark times.

01:31:50.740 Um, so many people are waiting for someone else to come save them or someone else to help them.

01:31:55.660 Well, you do it, you know, you do it, you be the light, man.

01:31:59.700 And it'll help.

01:32:00.700 It helps with your mindset.

01:32:01.980 You know, you start pouring some positivity into yourself.

01:32:04.380 It's amazing how much it makes an impact.

01:32:06.880 You may not, I try to explain to people, that's part of the overcome mindset.

01:32:09.840 And, and you may not be able to get back what you've lost.

01:32:13.460 I meet so many people who that's what their focus is.

01:32:16.220 Like I want back my health or I want back my relationship or I want back my business or whatever it is I've lost.

01:32:22.380 And that may not be the case, but a willingness to drive forward.

01:32:27.100 You're going to take that the end moment and create a new beginning.

01:32:31.840 Now streaming on Paramount Plus.

01:32:34.720 Someone is trying to frame us.

01:32:37.200 Until our names are cleared.

01:32:38.640 We're fugitives from Interpol.

01:32:41.360 Like Bonnie and Clyde with better snacks.

01:32:44.840 Espionage.

01:32:45.440 You still as good a shot as you used to be.

01:32:48.540 Better.

01:32:49.280 Is there love language.

01:32:50.760 We like to walk that fine line between techno thriller and romantic comedy.

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01:32:59.560 Now streaming on Paramount Plus.

01:33:01.280 I read in your book about how it was when you saw Erica for the first time post-injury.

01:33:10.240 And it was actually kind of shocking because you were writing about how, unfortunately, there are a lot of cases where the wife or the girlfriend comes in and sees the severely injured soldier and pieces right out of there.

01:33:20.280 I mean, that's horrifying.

01:33:22.540 But so there was, you know, in the back of your head, some concern, you know, given how badly injured you were in the face and so on.

01:33:29.920 And obviously what was going to be ahead of you guys.

01:33:31.900 Is she going to stick with me?

01:33:33.600 And Erica was solid.

01:33:35.220 The long-haired admiral came through.

01:33:37.380 She came through huge.

01:33:38.660 It wasn't a thing.

01:33:39.880 Huge.

01:33:39.920 But I know you were worried about, you said, don't bring the kids right away.

01:33:43.860 Like, I don't want them to see me like this.

01:33:46.180 So how was it?

01:33:47.140 Because obviously when you first saw your kids, you didn't look like you look now.

01:33:50.480 You definitely looked closer to right after the injuries.

01:33:54.200 So how did they handle that?

01:33:56.500 Good.

01:33:56.820 And a lot of that I got an attuned to, you know, Erica and I were really locked on.

01:34:01.320 I mean, I think that's one of the – as a couple, your ability to be unified in your decision-making and, you know, her and I discussed how would we handle this.

01:34:14.280 You know, it's been something that's been a common theme throughout our marriage.

01:34:18.060 So much so.

01:34:19.380 99% of – first off, SEALs have almost a 90% divorce rate. 0.61

01:34:24.580 Special operations are pretty close.

01:34:27.600 Guys who are wounded have almost a 99%.

01:34:31.320 It's just very hard on families to sustain these type of injuries.

01:34:39.120 And Erica and I talked, okay, well, how are we going to manage this?

01:34:42.960 One of the things we said, and we were fortunate enough to have family to help, we weren't going to change the kids' schedules.

01:34:48.440 The kids' schedules were going to stay the same.

01:34:50.380 We had family that came in.

01:34:51.600 If they had dance and soccer and school, they were going to be there.

01:34:55.680 So they would be home.

01:34:56.980 Erica stayed up at the hospital on the weekends.

01:34:59.360 Tim's family would bring – not in the beginning.

01:35:02.220 I didn't see the kids for probably three weeks.

01:35:05.500 And there were several things that I told – I said I wanted.

01:35:08.960 One, I was really – some of the original pictures are not out there.

01:35:15.220 I think if you dig deep enough, there's some surgical journals that have pictures of me in it.

01:35:20.060 But my head swelled almost to like the size of a basketball.

01:35:25.560 I looked pretty grotesque.

01:35:29.740 Stitches just stretched on my face.

01:35:32.360 And I told Erica I didn't want the kids to see me until they had done some more surgeries and some of the swelling had gone down.

01:35:39.340 And I was in ICU at the beginning.

01:35:41.120 I also did not want them to come into the room.

01:35:45.660 I wanted to walk into the room where the kids were.

01:35:49.160 I wanted it to be like a family room and I wanted to walk in.

01:35:52.020 So that was my goal to get well enough and strong enough that I could get up and walk into the room.

01:35:58.260 So that took about three weeks.

01:36:00.020 And then the other thing, Erica was super smart. 0.89

01:36:04.260 She knew the kids wanted different toys that they had talked about.

01:36:09.600 I mean, it's now September.

01:36:12.260 So she went and – normally they would have had to wait until Christmas.

01:36:15.960 But she went and bought – my son wanted a Nintendo DS.

01:36:22.380 One of the girls wanted a baby doll. 1.00

01:36:25.220 I can't remember what the other – what Sierra wanted.

01:36:28.760 But Erica went and bought those things for them and then had me give them to them in the room that I walked into with them.

01:36:39.560 So – and I tell you what, that I learned over the next couple of years.

01:36:45.060 People often talk about unconditional love.

01:36:47.000 And I think you can build unconditional love with your spouse.

01:36:51.860 But you learn what unconditional love is through your children.

01:36:55.400 Your children have unconditional love for their parents, especially when they're young.

01:37:00.940 You are their world.

01:37:02.640 And even though I looked messed up, my kids love me.

01:37:07.300 And there was a lot of healing that occurred over those couple of years, especially with my youngest daughter.

01:37:12.400 Because my middle daughter and my son, they went back to school by the time I got home.

01:37:18.100 But my youngest, she was only three.

01:37:19.800 So she was home with me and she became – and I had not been around her her whole life.

01:37:24.980 And she became my little buddy.

01:37:26.340 She would climb into bed with me as I recovered and we'd watch cartoons.

01:37:30.220 And man, I think that was very healing for me.

01:37:35.480 I needed that because I was so worried about would my kids be afraid of me and the way I look.

01:37:40.920 And, you know, they just – I'll never forget.

01:37:44.240 I went to pick my kids up at school one day and my daughter was like five.

01:37:47.880 She's in kindergarten.

01:37:48.760 Somebody was like, what happened to your dad?

01:37:51.120 And my daughter, matter of fact, was like, he got shot up.

01:37:54.440 He got all shot up.

01:37:55.500 He's fine though.

01:37:57.100 You know what I mean?

01:37:57.860 Just the candor of a five-year-old.

01:38:00.920 Yeah.

01:38:02.040 You know, especially when they're young, they have that healing power.

01:38:06.800 And there is something almost angelic about them in moments.

01:38:10.040 And I really believe it's like – someone said it to me this way and it made sense.

01:38:14.180 They're closer to the other side than we are.

01:38:17.100 They're still closer to the other side.

01:38:18.920 And I think they still have that sort of halo effect around them and on us.

01:38:25.020 There is something sort of magical about really young kids when you're down, you're blue, you're struggling.

01:38:31.560 And I'm so glad that was – you're so lucky to have your three-year-old with you during those moments.

01:38:37.020 I'm sure she was a healing balm. 0.59

01:38:40.400 The rock star, Erica, too.

01:38:42.380 Those are all great stories about her.

01:38:44.060 And I'm so glad.

01:38:45.180 Thank God this doesn't end with – and she just left. 0.56

01:38:48.120 You're still together.

01:38:49.480 You're still – right?

01:38:50.320 The family's still intact.

01:38:51.300 Yeah, I mean, I got to – I mean, and such a credit to her, you know, she became my best nurse.

01:38:58.420 Even though I had nurse – in-home nurses in between surgeries, you know, for the first eight or nine months, I was a mess.

01:39:06.540 I'm in a wheelchair.

01:39:07.520 I've got metal hardware coming out of my arm, what's called an external fixator.

01:39:11.340 I was trach for seven months and two days.

01:39:13.740 They were feeding me through a stomach tube.

01:39:15.940 Erica was doing those things. 1.00

01:39:17.380 She was helping to clean my trach.

01:39:18.680 And she's grinding up meds and grinding up food so that I could eat. 1.00

01:39:23.580 And I recognized the burden.

01:39:26.080 I mean, I became like a fourth child to her to take care of me.

01:39:29.920 And I'm just so thankful how strong she was because never once did she ever say, why did you do this to us?

01:39:37.980 Why did you pick this job that – you know, that this happened?

01:39:41.480 Because that would have been devastating.

01:39:43.720 And if she thought it, she never said it.

01:39:46.140 So, man, she is a leader in herself and we're an amazing team.

01:39:52.500 Really excited.

01:39:53.540 Right now we are working on – we're almost done with a relationship book called Invincible Marriage because it's a question so many people have.

01:40:01.940 How did you do it?

01:40:02.760 You guys made it through a special operations career.

01:40:05.320 You made it through wounding.

01:40:06.640 We've run a business together.

01:40:07.980 We've had business failures together.

01:40:09.480 We have three amazing kids, you know.

01:40:13.180 So, yeah, I'm really excited to get that book out there and hopefully help others, you know, build a strong, invincible marriage also.

01:40:20.300 Oh, my gosh.

01:40:20.800 You both are welcome on the show when it hits.

01:40:23.820 I would love to help you promote that.

01:40:26.060 I feel like everybody will buy that.

01:40:27.220 That's such a great – I mean, think of how we tell ourselves, we outside of your marriage, tell ourselves, oh, this is really hard.

01:40:33.120 Oh, he didn't empty the dishwasher.

01:40:35.000 Oh, it's annoying.

01:40:35.840 You know, he didn't show me enough emotional availability.

01:40:37.420 This is what, you know, you hear, my God, you don't even understand what the challenges are.

01:40:42.600 I had no idea about the divorce rate amongst the wounded.

01:40:46.080 I want to ask you in the time we have left, I would be remiss if I skipped the disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan because everyone who served there, like yourself, had some thoughts on it.

01:40:58.460 And some had some real trauma when it happened and just sort of the abandonment of it, of the translators.

01:41:05.440 You mentioned that was one of the guys with you in Iraq when you got hurt.

01:41:08.640 How did you process that whole thing?

01:41:12.900 Well, I got involved as much as I could.

01:41:15.060 I think that's going to be viewed and, in my opinion, probably one of the greatest failures.

01:41:22.980 I think the way we withdrew from Iraq was poorly done, which, in my opinion, directly led to the creation of ISIS in Iraq.

01:41:31.760 And then we repeated the exact same thing, except at an exponential scale in Afghanistan.

01:41:41.260 And in Afghanistan, I think we had done so much of a better job, you know, helping the people.

01:41:46.720 There were so many people that had embraced this newfound freedom apart from the rule of the Taliban.

01:41:53.480 I mean, there were women in leadership position. 1.00

01:41:55.740 There were women in political positions. 1.00

01:41:57.220 There were women leaders in the military. 1.00

01:42:00.040 Commerce was starting to grow and thrive in Afghanistan again.

01:42:03.900 And we had basically convinced these people like, hey, a free democratic Afghanistan is a real thing.

01:42:12.460 And, yeah, when we pulled out of there in the way that we did, I mean, just, I don't understand.

01:42:24.280 I don't know.

01:42:25.160 I mean, you can't tell me that there weren't senior political leaders who were saying this is not going to end well.

01:42:32.920 Why we didn't maintain forces in Bagram.

01:42:35.660 We knew Bagram.

01:42:36.860 Bagram was protected.

01:42:37.940 How did we ever agree to allow the Taliban to provide some level of security?

01:42:44.340 How did we ever, you know, who in their right mind allowed this to occur with, you know, American citizens that were left behind?

01:42:53.660 I mean, trying to get people in the Karzai airport.

01:42:56.760 That's how I got involved.

01:42:57.920 Lieutenant Colonel Scott Mann had created a group to try and help.

01:43:02.700 He wanted to get his interpreter out.

01:43:04.340 And there were a lot of special operations guys, Chad Robichaw, Tim Kennedy.

01:43:08.040 A lot of these guys did amazing things.

01:43:09.900 I ended up working with Scott.

01:43:11.960 And we were trying to get people out of Afghanistan.

01:43:14.020 And we saw firsthand the chaos and the disorganization and the mass confusion by the U.S. government.

01:43:22.500 You know, the focus began and became we're just going to get the military out and ignoring all these U.S. citizens.

01:43:29.680 And most importantly, the individuals who had been processed, Afghans who had sacrificed their lives to protect us and work with us, who had lost family members to risk their lives, who had been told, you're going to get a special immigrant visa and you're going to be able to come to the United States when all of this was transpiring, that the Taliban was going to take back over, which I had issues with in the first place.

01:43:55.800 Why did we turn the country back over to the exact same terrorist group that we were fighting against for 20 years?

01:44:02.400 I mean, it's mind-blowing.

01:44:04.800 Mind-blowing.

01:44:05.440 It's infuriating.

01:44:06.220 And I think it will impact our national security collection abilities for decades to come.

01:44:14.240 Because who in their right mind is going to want to work with America and risk their lives to help us collect intelligence when they're going to go, I'm not going to work with you guys.

01:44:22.960 If anything goes wrong, you're just going to sell me out to dry and I'm going to be killed.

01:44:27.620 We sent such a negative message across the world.

01:44:31.680 I think it was such a poor display of leadership.

01:44:35.100 I think it was just straight up anti-American.

01:44:37.480 It was traumatic for so many guys who served.

01:44:42.600 Like, what was I there for?

01:44:43.740 What did my friends die for?

01:44:45.440 What did I – I mean, you were in Iraq, but same – similar question.

01:44:49.340 Like, what did I get blown up for?

01:44:50.540 What – you know, what?

01:44:51.560 We just tucked tail and ran at the end.

01:44:54.160 I don't know.

01:44:54.900 I still think the way I process it from over here, you guys kept us safe for 20 years.

01:44:59.920 You know, remember how afraid we were after 9-11 we were going to get attacked again?

01:45:03.860 You kept us safe for 20 years and we're still safe.

01:45:05.820 We're still safe because of what you did over there.

01:45:07.820 It was not all for naught, though it was terribly, terribly handled.

01:45:12.140 And even before the withdrawal, there was a lot of criticism to be leveled.

01:45:16.360 But the withdrawal was just a stain.

01:45:18.480 It was just a stain on our leadership, not on our guys.

01:45:23.940 No, and I would say the same.

01:45:25.340 I mean, I never once have ever thought, oh my God, what a waste.

01:45:28.860 I mean, you know, the mission that we did was, you know, we helped a lot of people.

01:45:33.480 We definitely got rid of a lot of very bad people who, given the opportunity, would gladly

01:45:38.820 do bad things here in our own country and even in other countries abroad.

01:45:42.940 So, yeah, I definitely tell fellow veterans, don't ever think that what we did absolutely

01:45:47.000 made a difference.

01:45:48.460 It's unfortunate the way it ended, but, you know, I'm proud of the time that I had to

01:45:53.900 serve over there and hopefully make a small difference in Afghanistan, Iraq.

01:45:59.180 And beyond, beyond.

01:46:01.260 So now how old are you?

01:46:03.480 I turn 48 next week.

01:46:08.220 Oh, you're still a spring chicken.

01:46:10.320 You're a young guy.

01:46:11.400 Yeah.

01:46:13.100 You got it, Erica.

01:46:14.180 You got your three kids.

01:46:16.100 Yeah.

01:46:17.200 And your career is as a motivational speaker, as an author.

01:46:21.900 How's that going?

01:46:22.780 Are you paying the bills with that?

01:46:23.880 You feel like things are going well?

01:46:27.120 They are.

01:46:27.800 I mean, the demand is high.

01:46:28.820 I mean, you know, I think the message I deliver is very needed.

01:46:35.540 And I think companies recognize that.

01:46:37.700 I mean, a combination of coming out of the COVID era and also into just society as a whole.

01:46:44.500 My message is on self-leadership.

01:46:46.800 How do we lead ourselves to be successful?

01:46:49.180 How do we build better teams?

01:46:50.600 How do we build more positive culture within companies?

01:46:53.040 And then how do we find balance in this crazy world that we're living in?

01:46:57.280 And then all about the resilience and grit.

01:47:00.400 I teach something called Getting Off the X.

01:47:02.200 It's one of the foundational principles in my Overcome book.

01:47:06.160 I'm now teaching the Point Man for Life program, which is a structured process of building long-term goal-setting and understanding based on your values, what your mission or purpose is in this life with kind of a special operations twist.

01:47:20.180 And then, of course, we have the relationship book coming.

01:47:23.900 And then something I've started working on, we just concluded our most recent Overcome and Survive workshop.

01:47:31.660 A lot of my teammates have a lot of experience, and they are training law enforcement and national organization, military organizations and tactical abilities.

01:47:42.440 But I keep meeting average everyday Americans who are like, I'm scared for the future.

01:47:47.400 Like, I wish I knew how to better defend myself in this dangerous world where every time we turn around, there's a massacre shooting.

01:47:53.760 Or, God forbid, something happened to my family.

01:47:56.140 How do I save them?

01:47:58.680 How do I know basic first aid?

01:48:00.200 Or, God forbid, society collapsed.

01:48:03.240 Or at least we lost power.

01:48:04.220 If I take this course, you're not going to throw me in the ocean and hose me down with a hose and tell me to find Northwest, are you?

01:48:10.940 No, no, there's not.

01:48:12.740 As a matter of fact, it was funny, man.

01:48:14.020 People signing up for the course, I had to put it right on the website, overcomeandsurvive.com.

01:48:18.900 We do not yell at you, you're not.

01:48:20.660 We want to take the average everyday American and make them better.

01:48:23.700 That's it.

01:48:24.580 And to give them a basic level of preparation so that they can overcome and survive if something bad happens.

01:48:32.660 And I've really enjoyed that.

01:48:34.400 I've met people from all across this country who have come to these courses, and I'm doing it with some of my former teammates.

01:48:41.640 It keeps the brotherhood connected.

01:48:43.100 That's so important for you guys.

01:48:44.440 I know there's such a unique bond, and if you don't nurture it, maybe you lose it, and it just becomes a memory, which is not okay.

01:48:50.760 I want to tell our audience that the book that talks about Jay's experience is called The Trident.

01:48:57.180 And then you heard him reference his second book, which is called Overcome, Crush Adversity with Leadership Techniques of America's Toughest Warriors.

01:49:04.940 And we will look forward to the third book, which is the relationship one, and we'll have you back on for that.

01:49:11.080 Lieutenant Jason Redman, I'm moved.

01:49:14.920 I'm inspired.

01:49:15.820 I'm excited for what comes next in your life and to read your next writing.

01:49:19.400 And I just wish all my best to you and your family.

01:49:22.460 I know my audience is joining me right now in thanking you, thanking you, thanking you so much for your service, your sacrifice, that of your family as well.

01:49:29.860 They do the same in their own ways, and we appreciate you.

01:49:33.040 God bless you.

01:49:34.120 My honor.

01:49:34.880 Thank you.

01:49:35.300 Oh, such an inspiring guest.

01:49:39.880 He's amazing, isn't he?

01:49:41.700 Go to jasonredman.com to find out much, much more about Jason, about his books, about his courses, everything.

01:49:49.980 Everything Jason Redman.

01:49:51.280 Well worth your time.

01:49:53.000 Today, I join you in remembering all of the men and women who have served our country and also thinking of and thanking our current military members serving today.

01:50:02.740 Have a great Memorial Day, and we'll talk tomorrow.

01:50:08.500 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

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01:50:53.400 And we'll see you next time.

The Megyn Kelly Show - May 29, 2023

Navy SEAL Jason Redman on Overcoming the Victim Mindset, His Inspirational Recovery, and Our Military Today ｜ Ep. 560

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