NBC ＂Catch and Kill＂ Hypocrisy, Baldwin Harassed, and What is a Woman Lawsuit, with Mike Davis, Dave Aronberg, Sall Grover, and Katherine Deves ｜ Ep. 773
Did Donald Trump violate the gag order in the hush money case? Megyn, Meghan, and Dave discuss it all on today's episode of The Megynkelly Show. Guest: Mike Davis, Founder and President of the Article 3 Project and State Attorney for Palm Beach County, Florida.
00:01:06.860So this judge did not seem like he was happy about Trump's statements out of court about Michael Cohen, for example.
00:01:15.980He seemed to be begging the defense lawyers to give him a reason why he should not find Trump violated the gag order.
00:01:24.060I don't know why he hasn't ruled yet, but you tell me, Dave, doesn't look good for Donald Trump here.
00:01:29.860It seems to me like he's about to be found in violation.
00:01:32.080Yeah, Megan, good to be back with you and Mike.
00:01:35.320I think the worst part was where the judge told the lawyer, Mr. Blanche, for Trump that you're starting to lose credibility with the court.
00:01:43.760That's never a good thing when you're a defendant and you hear that your lawyer is losing credibility with the judge.
00:01:49.540But ultimately, I don't think Trump is going to get a big penalty here at the beginning.
00:02:16.840And so although the judge is seemingly very annoyed right now, I don't think that this is going to result in anything more, at least for now, than a fine.
00:02:24.760The judge said to Team Trump, Todd Blanche is Trump's lawyer, you're losing all credibility with the court.
00:02:32.420This is citing from The New York Times when Blanche insisted that they, meaning Trump and his staff, are trying to follow the rules.
00:02:41.020He said, you're losing all credibility with me.
00:02:44.060He also said he wants to hear an assertion under oath that Donald Trump believed he was not violating the gag order when he made some of the posts they were discussing.
00:02:56.040That sounds I don't I doubt they're going to get such an assertion from Donald Trump.
00:03:00.120Todd Blanche was saying, look, this gag order, we're trying to comply with it.
00:03:04.100But Trump has a group of folks who work for him.
00:03:06.560They find articles that they think Trump's audience should read.
00:03:09.940And some of those articles may have criticisms of witnesses like Michael Cohen.
00:03:14.060And that shouldn't be held against Trump, I suppose, is the is the line of argument.
00:03:19.920So this Democrat Manhattan Judge Juan Mershon question Trump's lawyers credibility.
00:03:25.360Let's look at Judge Mershon and this court's credibility on this case.
00:03:28.940You have this Soros funded Manhattan D.A., Alvin Bragg, who campaigned on getting Trump.
00:03:34.660He brought these bogus charges against Trump that are at best campaign that are at best bookkeeping violations.
00:03:43.720They're not even bookkeeping misdemeanors, but at best they're bookkeeping misdemeanors from 2017 that are clearly time barred beyond the statute of limitations.
00:03:53.100This case was brought after Matthew Colangelo got deployed from the Biden Justice Department, the number three office in the Biden Justice Department, a top political appointee who worked for, you know, Eric Holder and Tom Perez and Obama and Democrat attorney general in New York and Biden and Merrick Garland.
00:04:12.560He gets deployed to the Alvin Bragg's office to resurrect this zombie case 30 months later after Trump left office.
00:04:19.700This this is clearly election interference. It's clearly lawfare.
00:04:22.600It's part of the Democrats organized campaign there before this.
00:04:27.080Democrats, Manhattan Judge Juan Mershon, who donated to Biden in 2020, he donated to another anti-Trump cause.
00:04:35.180And more importantly, his adult daughter, Lauren Mershon, is a top Democrat campaign operative,
00:04:41.760and she's raised nearly a hundred million dollars off of her father's unprecedented criminal trial of a former and likely future president of the United States.
00:04:51.900That is a clear conflict of interest under New York law requiring Judge Mershon's recusal.
00:04:59.100That's not just Mike Davis saying that.
00:05:00.880That is a former Clinton federal judge in the Southern District of New York going on Caitlin Collins' show on CNN on April 5th and stunning Caitlin by saying that this judge Mershon has not recused.
00:05:14.160His actual response has been to put an unconstitutional gag order on Trump.
00:05:19.280OK, but that doesn't I appreciate the sentiment, but like let's stay specific for today because our audience has heard these more sweeping arguments before.
00:05:29.160And I do think it's very interesting whether this this judge is going to punish Trump for violating the gag order,
00:05:34.940because you really are gagging a presidential candidate from speaking publicly about the witnesses who are out there about him all the time.
00:05:43.840So I get the unfairness of it. I'll stay with you on this, Mike.
00:05:47.020I get that it's unfair, right, that that Cohen can go on MSNBC every day and say the most despicable things about Trump possible.
00:05:54.040But for now, the order, the gag order says Trump is not allowed to respond.
00:06:01.620And so what do you think this judge is going to do?
00:06:05.240Because it does appear to me Trump's violated the letter of the gag order by attacking Cohen.
00:06:12.060But what now what position is this judge in?
00:06:15.880Because he's either going to find him or he's going to throw him in jail.
00:06:19.500Well, I don't think we're yet at point B.
00:06:22.940Well, the problem is, is that this judge put in place an unconstitutional gag order.
00:06:28.260It is not constitutional to broadly gag a criminal defendant like this.
00:06:33.400If there's anyone in America who must have the first, sixth and 14th Amendment rights,
00:06:38.300rights to speak out against the judge, the prosecutor, the witnesses, the staff, the biases, the process.
00:06:44.840It is a criminal defendant going through a criminal process, particularly when that criminal defendant is a presidential candidate.
00:06:52.060And particularly when that presidential candidate is on the receiving end of obvious Democrat lawfare and election interference.
00:06:58.360So so, yes, this judge Marchand could say, yes, we're going to put President Trump in jail.
00:07:04.140I actually dare him to do that because I actually think I will guarantee that President Trump is back in the White House.
00:07:09.280I know. I mean, I think he knows that, Dave. Right.
00:07:12.660Judge Marchand is not oblivious to the fact that if he actually put this defendant in jail for violating this gag order, it would it would cause a meltdown in the country.
00:07:21.860Yeah, agreed. That's why they're just going to do a thousand dollars for each violation.
00:07:25.940That's even what Bragg asked for, didn't ask to sentence Trump to pretrial incarceration.
00:07:32.620So they're not there yet. But he does need to cool down on the attacks, especially on the jury.
00:07:38.980You know, you had at least one member of the jury, the alternate came to the judge and said in tears that not sure if he wants to continue.
00:07:45.360One member of the jury pleaded to get let off and she did. So it is a problem.
00:07:50.400And you have, you know, jurors who are there doing their civic duty and they're getting accused of being 95 percent Democratic as far as Manhattan being Democratic and being like plants for the Democrats.
00:08:00.200You got to calm down on that. And as far as attacking Michael Cohen, you know, you can't engage in witness intimidation.
00:08:06.080I know it seems unfair that Cohen can attack him. And I know prosecutors are probably cringing at the fact that Cohen is still going after Trump online.
00:08:14.540That's not a good look. It's not good for the prosecution. But our system is that if you engage in witness intimidation and harassment, that's a violation.
00:08:22.300That's against the law. And at some point, Trump needs to dial that back. It's not a good look for him.
00:08:26.820And he could get hit with bigger things than just a fine. And if he continues in the future.
00:08:31.520Michael Cohen was all over MSNBC, I think just within the past few days, calling Trump despicable.
00:08:38.840He wants to see him convicted. I mean, all of this is terrible for the DA's case,
00:08:43.620because he's going to be a witness, a trial, and he's going to get cross-examined with all those statements.
00:08:48.300Like, you'll say anything. You can't stand him. He's become your nemesis in life.
00:08:52.580You'll do anything to see him go to jail, just like you did, sir. Isn't that true?
00:08:56.460Like, this is terrible. But Michael Cohen wants his name in lights and to see his face on television
00:09:02.260more than he wants to preserve whatever is left of the integrity in this trial.
00:09:07.700So, I mean, in a way, it's not bad for Trump to have Cohen out there saying all this stuff.
00:09:11.620But I can see how it's very difficult for him not to respond.
00:09:14.340All right. So we'll find out how the judge rules on the gag order.
00:09:17.020I agree it's probably going to be a slap on the wrist. A thousand bucks here, a thousand bucks there.
00:09:20.640I don't think he violated anything on the jury, though, in the reference that you just made.
00:09:25.940I did listen to it. It's I have it here.
00:09:28.140It's immersed in a discussion from MSNBC between Rachel Maddow and Andrew Wiseman, former prosecutor,
00:09:34.080where they were talking about whether this was a violation of the gag order.
00:09:37.780And I'll play it here. But for reasons I'll explain, I don't I don't think they've got him on this at all.
00:11:25.400I suspect that Judge Mershon is not only going to hit him with fines, but is going to broaden the gag order to say no more mentioning juries in any way.
00:11:32.920So I think it's going to be a tighter gag order against Trump and a fine.
00:14:31.720Well, yeah, I do think he'll be OK with that.
00:14:33.940Well, I think he'll be a tighter gag order to prevent him from doing that in the future.
00:14:37.520But I do think that he was pretty clever in catching himself on that.
00:14:42.520The fact that he can continue to bash the judge is such a shock to me as a prosecutor that that judges are allowing a defendant to go ahead and go after them.
00:14:51.740The gag order does not prevent Trump from going after the judge or the prosecutor, just the judge's family, just the witnesses, just the jurors.
00:15:01.480So that's why I think he's being treated better than other defendants.
00:15:05.180Remember, once you're arrested for a crime, you don't have the same First Amendment rights as everyone else.
00:15:08.840You're told you cannot communicate with victims, you cannot communicate with witnesses, you can't drink alcohol.
00:15:13.880There's all these other limitations on you.
00:15:15.740So, oh, yeah, yeah, we see that all the time.
00:16:29.040I'm so glad that we had you booked because as Alvin Bragg laid out through his emissary, Colangelo, laid out what he's actually alleging, Mike.
00:17:41.780And for this past year, we've all been looking at federal election law.
00:17:45.060Like, I guess it's campaign finance violation where he's saying this one hundred and thirty thousand dollar payment that was made to Stormy Daniels to keep her quiet in advance of the election was considered a donation to his campaign that he didn't properly document.
00:17:59.840It's sounding much more amorphous and innocent than that.
00:18:06.220But he's saying yesterday, Mike, the D.A., it's about a conspiracy, which has not been alleged as a crime to help Trump get elected by this whole catch and kill scheme where Trump's friend at the National Enquirer was paying off women to give him the exclusive rights to their stories.
00:18:28.940And then he wouldn't publish them to help Trump.
00:18:52.540And that's the problem is that you have.
00:18:54.680And there's no reason that Judge Mershon should not have dismissed this case on a motion to dismiss the indictment because it doesn't add up.
00:19:12.960Remember, it's not a crime for a businessman to settle a nuisance claim or hush money or whatever you call it.
00:19:19.320It might be unseemly to some, but that happens all the time.
00:19:22.740And you'd have to prove that Trump only did this because he was running for president and he was trying to do this to benefit his campaign.
00:19:39.520I mean, it's why the prior Manhattan D.A., the Manhattan U.S. attorney, the Federal Election Commission and Bragg himself declined to prosecute this case until Colangelo got sent.
00:19:49.060But if Trump talks about Colangelo, he violates the gag order.
00:19:53.520So there was a very interesting piece today, Dave, staying on this same point in The New York Times.
00:19:58.280It was a guest essay by Jed Handelsman Sugarman, law professor at BU.
00:20:03.300And the headline is, I thought the Bragg case against Trump was a legal embarrassment.
00:20:09.520And he goes on to talk about how he listened to the opening statement yesterday by the prosecutors and said this is such a vague allegation about, quote, a criminal scheme to corrupt the 2016 presidential election,
00:20:26.000which he says has him more concerned than ever about their unprecedented use of state law and their persistent avoidance of specifying an election crime or a valid theory of fraud.
00:20:55.200He said in this opening argument, the prosecutor still evaded specifics about what was illegal, about influencing an election, but then just claimed it was election fraud, pure and simple.
00:21:07.860None of the relevant state or federal statutes refer to filing violations as fraud.
00:21:13.300Calling it election fraud is a legal and strategic mistake exaggerating the case and setting up the jury with high expectations that the prosecutors cannot meet.
00:21:24.220And indeed, the defense got up there and said it's not election fraud to try to get yourself elected, to try to to pay off people who want to say damaging things about you.
00:21:36.680Like, that's not they're boiling it down to something that is going to be, I think, rather easily dismissed.
00:22:35.880Any two or more persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means in which conspiracy is acted upon by one or more of the parties there, too, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
00:22:48.920So what they're doing is they're taking this obscure, vague statute that creates a misdemeanor for conspiring to influence an election and using that to elevate this underlying crime, the falsification of business records, into a film.
00:23:15.480And the statute you mentioned is it, Conspiracy to Promote Election Fraud by two or more people, two or more people conspire to promote election fraud by unlawful means, an election by unlawful means.
00:24:07.520They're saying we don't need to rely on federal law.
00:24:10.240There's a state law on the books that makes what Michael Cohen did illegal, and thus one misdemeanor plus another misdemeanor equals a felony.
00:24:18.000The biggest problem, though, I think prosecutors will have, Megan, is not at the trial.
00:24:22.360I actually think there's enough evidence to convict.
00:24:24.000I think on appeal, the judges on appeal may say federal law preempts state law in this area.
00:24:31.060The federal campaign finance law preempts a state law, and thus the felonies are thrown out, and we're just going to keep the convictions against Trump as misdemeanors.
00:24:45.360So it's the underlying felony that resurrected the dead misdemeanor is this state law saying two people can't conspire to promote an election by unlawful means.
00:24:57.600And the unlawful means jumps us over to federal law, and it's an alleged campaign finance violation in that he paid $130,000 to a porn star to keep quiet with the sole purpose of advancing his election.
00:25:15.820But we've already interviewed election officials, former commissioner of the FEC on the program, saying in order to qualify as a campaign finance violation, that $130,000, not even just in Trump's mind, would have had to be for something that could only ever be used for an election.
00:25:37.040In other words, the test isn't exactly, it's hard, let me try to restate it, to figure out whether that $130,000 is an illegal payment, like a campaign finance violation.
00:25:49.460You have to prove that no one would ever pay a hush money payment for any purpose other than to win an election.
00:25:59.060Mike is shaking his head yes, and Dave is shaking his head no, as I say that.
00:27:13.920They can continue to prosecute the misdemeanors in this case.
00:27:16.200I thought the court said, no, that you can continue.
00:27:17.960It just may not rise to the level of felony.
00:27:19.120I thought we were talking about the falsification of business records, which was expired two years after it happened.
00:27:24.260So, you know, that would have been done back in, what, 19?
00:27:27.380And the only way it got resurrected was because it was to cover up an underlying felony.
00:27:31.740But if there's no underlying felony, if that jujitsu you just walked us through is not blessed by the appellate court, the case is dead.
00:27:40.100But if you don't have the underlying misdemeanor, the underlying 34 counts of falsification on business records, and the whole case goes away,
00:27:45.740so that's not barred by statute of limitations.
00:27:49.120It's just a question of whether it will ever rise to a felony, and that's something for the appellate courts, because I do agree we're in uncharted territory here.
00:29:05.700Okay, I'm pushing that argument off to the side because it was confusing, and I don't think we're on the same page, but I think we've accurately stated the law as it is.
00:29:15.480Okay, let's talk about some of the analysis that I've been watching, because I love to watch how the media covers these events.
00:29:23.320And here is some of the Trump defense.
00:29:28.120Actually, let me do this soundbite before we get to the stuff I saw on MSNBC.
00:29:31.320The Trump defense is in part on whether that misdemeanor, Mike, writing down legal expense when, in fact, it was a hush money payment, part of his defense is there was nothing wrong with what I wrote.
00:29:50.840You know, even if Michael Cohen was paying off Stormy Daniels on my behalf and then I reimbursed him, categorizing it as a legal expense is not a lie.
00:29:59.940It's not a falsification of a business record.
00:30:02.500So he's going to take on, you know, he definitely thinks that claim is time barred, and he thinks there's no underlying felony, but he does have to fight the fight.
00:30:09.680So in fighting the fight about whether he falsified a business record, he's going to say, I think, first of all, I didn't do anything.
00:30:15.260I had a bunch of accountants and people who handled this stuff for me.
00:31:15.960And this is going to set a pretty interesting precedent for these New York businesses and New York corporations and New York businessmen if if they're settling a nuisance claim through your lawyer, which is pretty routine.
00:31:28.480I mean, if they're going to be charged with bookkeeping misdemeanors and that's going to be transformed into felonies many years down the road if you're in political disfavor with the prosecutor and the judge.
00:31:40.320I mean, that's the path we're heading down.
00:31:43.080I feel like this is one of those things, Dave, that a jury could get very easily.
00:31:54.540Well, you have two lawyers on the jury and an engineer, and they're going to really dissect this.
00:32:02.700That could be beneficial for the defense.
00:32:05.260But they have evidence that Trump was part of this scheme with Michael Cohen and David Pecker to pay hush money and that these weren't legal fees.
00:32:18.380He had a campaign email address, and there are lots of other things that show that this was all about the campaign, and so it should have been disclosed as a campaign expense.
00:32:27.400It was hidden by filing it as a legal expense.
00:32:31.140And Trump is saying, I had nothing to do with it.
00:32:33.760It was a low-level account whose name I can't – I don't even know.
00:32:38.680And I think that's hard to believe, especially because I think you have to take that leap to think that Michael Cohen somehow did this on his own and then Trump just reimbursed him afterwards.
00:32:48.460Michael Cohen is a lawyer, and Mike is an excellent lawyer, but not even Mike Davis will shell out $130,000 of his own money, take out a home loan to pay off a debt of his boss and not tell him until later.
00:33:00.680So I don't buy that explanation by Trump.
00:33:03.840Well, and they're also going to have testimony in connection with another payoff to another woman, Karen McDougal, that has Trump on tape acknowledging the deal.
00:33:15.240So they don't have that on the stormy payment, but they do have it to show, look, he knew about this one and blessed it.
00:33:21.500What are the odds that he didn't know about the stormy one and that Michael Cohen just did that out of the goodness of his heart?
00:33:26.720And Cohen, of course, is going to testify.
00:33:28.520Trump knew all about it, and the only reason I paid it is because he told me to, and that's why Trump's going to say he's a liar.
00:33:32.840But yeah, I mean, I think there probably will be some evidence that it wasn't just some random accountant and that Trump knew the payment was being made to Michael Cohen.
00:33:42.200But the documentation of it, you said legal fees.
00:33:48.320A legal fee is different from a legal expense, right?
00:33:51.700Legal fee to me implies I'm paying you for your time as a lawyer, like I'm paying you for your for your research, your drafting, your appearances in court for me.
00:34:01.600I think we're closer to what they actually did.
00:34:03.740You went out and incurred an expenditure on my behalf, and I reimbursed you for it.
00:34:07.780Yeah, well, they've got phone calls between Michael Cohen and Donald Trump at the time that Michael Cohen created the entity that would be used to pay off Stormy Daniels.
00:34:16.560And they've got Alan Weisselberg's notes that he took that describes the reimbursement scheme, and they're pretty detailed.
00:34:24.820And then you have this text message between Stormy Daniels' lawyer and someone at the Trump team, or I think it was – I forgot who it was.
00:34:34.360So it was Stormy Daniels' lawyer at the time who texted someone right after Trump won the election to say, what have we done?
00:37:04.960But like, they're taking conduct that, let's face it, men have been engaging in for a very long time and trying to make it this big illegal scheme.
00:37:14.720It's like, he paid off a woman who was threatening to say something embarrassing about him.
00:37:46.400So under that logic, Dave, under that logic, no man can pay off somebody, a woman, any woman who comes forward or person from their past and says,
00:37:57.700I'm going public with damaging information while that man is running for president.
00:39:48.820Well, the problem is the statute applies to business records and that this payment came from personal funds.
00:39:54.500And so that's another legal problem with this whole case is that they're going after President Trump for, you know, having fraudulent business records or whatever they're labeling it that he.
00:40:05.140But the problem is, is he used his personal funds to pay this.
00:40:22.420There's an update from inside the courtroom on Pecker.
00:40:26.200When described as via New York Post, when describing the August 2015 meeting at Trump Tower, this is between Trump and David Pecker, where they struck this deal.
00:40:34.640You know, you're going to help me bury bad stories.
00:40:38.520David Pecker said he warned Donald Trump that women would try to sell stories about him as his presidential campaign heated up.
00:40:44.640I was the person that thought there would be a lot of women to come out to try to sell their stories because Mr.
00:40:49.760Trump was well known as the most eligible bachelor and dated the most beautiful women, Pecker said.
00:40:54.820It is my experience that when someone runs for office like this, it's very common for these women to call the National Enquirer and try to sell their stories.
00:41:00.960He goes on to say he had an unwritten agreement with Trump, quote, it was an agreement amongst friends, end quote, when learning that there was a negative story about Trump.
00:41:09.920He said the agreement was mutually beneficial, meaning it would help Trump's campaign and help sell magazines.
00:41:16.980Pecker testified that he didn't want anyone to know about the agreement, telling editors to keep this as quiet as possible.
00:41:23.260I do think the timing of that is rather interesting that the meeting was August of 2015.
00:41:27.480August 6th, 2015 was the presidential debate, the very first of the Republican season in which I asked Trump that question about women.
00:41:35.020And that became, you know, a lot that that narrative was interjected into the campaign in a very visible way.
00:41:43.360And then these two sat down and I'm sure did come up with a deal where his friend would take care of him.
00:41:48.580I mean, if I were friends with David Pecker and I were running for president, I'm sure I'd go to him and be like, please bury the negative stories about me.
00:41:56.460You know, they're like, I'll tell you a story.
00:41:58.540Back when I left NBC or right around there, the Daily Mail, which I now love, but they were writing terrible pieces about me all the time.
00:42:06.440And a friend of mine knew somebody who knew somebody who was like running the Daily Mail or owned the Daily Mail.
00:42:11.300I can't remember. They said, you know, I can arrange a meeting for you with this person and you can basically ask for a pardon.
00:42:18.240You know, you can beg for them to stop hitting you.
00:42:21.180And I was like, I'm not going to do that. It's the media. This is what we do.
00:42:25.440Like they're allowed to write hit pieces about me. It doesn't have to be pleasant for me, but that's just, you know, that's life.
00:42:31.080Kind of have to suck it up. Not everybody makes that choice.
00:42:33.980But like, would that have been improper if I had been somehow running for office?
00:42:38.800I have a connection. I say, yo, could you please lay off?
00:42:41.760No. So this is not actually that untoward.
00:42:45.180There's nothing wrong with Trump using a personal connection who runs a national tabloid to say, please don't let these women come forward and say these things about me.
00:42:52.580Which, for the record, Trump is denying are true.
00:43:14.100And she got into on her show last night, her one hour a week for which she gets 30 million bucks.
00:43:18.780Um, this scheme of catch and kill, because it wasn't just Donald Trump that the National Enquirer did this for or other publications did this for.
00:43:30.500But she winds up landing this in a different place than I will.
00:43:36.740Today, when David Pecker was on the stand, he is the one who volunteered the phrase checkbook journalism.
00:43:40.940Um, they do sometimes, they do sometimes with people other than Donald Trump, find out negative information about a person and then decide not to run it.
00:44:00.580They've done this about, about, about Cosby.
00:44:02.720Bill Cosby, they had a bunch of bad information about him.
00:44:04.820They did not run it in exchange for Cosby then doing exclusives with them.
00:44:07.980They had a bunch of bad information on Arnold Schwarzenegger, did not run it in exchange for Schwarzenegger doing a bunch of stuff with them.
00:44:14.100The difference is, when they did it with Donald Trump, they only did it when it came to the election.
00:44:19.860Prosecutors said today in their opening statement they had never before paid anybody for any information related to Donald Trump.
00:44:26.140It was to help Donald Trump win the election.
00:44:33.520The sanctimony is espoused on that set last night about this checkbook journalism and how these media outlets would bury stories in exchange for, you know, some sort of an exclusive or for nefarious purposes that are really not above board.
00:44:50.080It's really rich coming from NBC News, which has been most infamous over the past five years for having the Harvey Weinstein story.
00:45:01.960They knew he was raping women and sexually assaulting women.
00:45:07.060They had allegation after allegation through Ronan Farrow.
00:45:10.520And they spiked it and let Ronan Farrow walk out the door with what would be a Pulitzer Prize winning story on Harvey because, according to Ronan Farrow, they didn't want Harvey to unleash on Matt Lauer, who they had reason to believe was hurting women inside of the NBC building, had been sexually harassing or assaulting women within their own roof.
00:45:39.620And so they allowed effectively, in my opinion, Harvey Weinstein's rapes to keep going so that Matt Lauer's sexual harassment and assaults could keep going.
00:45:52.260That was the deal they struck, which does not give her the moral high ground to come out there and condemn Trump saying, could you please bury the porn stars allegation against me in no way, shape or form alleged to be non consensual.
00:46:09.620That's the underlying sickness behind every discussion NBC's having about this.
00:46:17.000And only those of us with a memory that's longer than two minutes understand how wrong it is.
00:46:23.380I'll start with you on it, Mike, for NBC to be playing moral arbiter here on so-called checkbook journalism.
00:46:53.280And it's not, I'm not going to go to Dave because he goes on MSNBC and I don't want to put you in the uncomfortable position of criticizing a network that is good to you.
00:46:59.800I understand that's not appropriate, but Mike's good.
00:47:03.340Here's Ronan when his book Catch and Kill hit publicly explaining some of this.
00:47:25.800And the way in which that's framed is very careful.
00:47:27.720All of NBC's denials are in this book.
00:47:30.020We fact checked for many hours with them.
00:47:31.980That said, it is indisputable based on the evidence in this book that there was a chain of secret settlements at this company that were covered up with victims of harassment and assault.
00:47:41.080Some of them about Lauer, some about others in the company.
00:48:46.300I just say I dealt with Ronan Farrell during the Kavanaugh confirmation, and he came at me because, you know, I don't think I think he was going to write a hit piece on me on how I handled it.
00:48:56.460And I actually talked to him and he gave me a very, you know, he wrote a very fair story.
00:49:00.680You know, it wasn't a it was certainly not a warm and fuzzy story, but it was a fair story.
00:49:11.440Another word on NBC before we leave the subject.
00:49:18.140There's another woman over there named Alex Wagner, who was on the same panel making a similar point.
00:49:23.860I'll stick with you on this, Mike, about how they're trying to, quote, normalize NDAs, nondisclosure agreements in this abominable Trump courtroom.
00:49:43.840This strategy from Trump's team, at least as I understood it today, seems to be to normalize outlandish things, which is the arguing that NDAs are just a common practice, that lots of wealthy people do them.
00:51:02.200And the checkbook journal, like, this is not how journalism is done.
00:51:06.820As I point out, this is how NBC News handled journalism when it came to its Pulitzer Prize winning story that it let walk out the door and go to the New Yorker.
00:51:16.140And not just that, Mike, but look at the number of stories that were manipulated, suppressed, buried, or promoted during the 2020 election.
00:51:26.680We could go back to 16-2 for Hillary, but let's just stick with 2020 when it came to Trump v. Biden.
00:51:33.300To sell to a jury that only the Republican did this evil thing of manipulating the media is going to be very tough.
00:51:43.340Yeah, I mean, I was a real lawyer in Colorado for 10 years before I got dragged back into D.C. in the political scene.
00:51:51.240And I'll tell you, NDAs, nondisclosure agreements, these payments, they happen every day in the legal practice.
00:51:58.700And to say that Trump is trying to normalize them shows that this young journalist is absolutely clueless and sanctimonious or she's lying.
00:52:08.980So it's one of the two, because it's routine in the practice of law and the practice of politics and the practice of journalism that you use nondisclosure agreements and you have to make payments.
00:52:20.240You have to make you have to settle nuisance claims from time to time, actually quite frequently if you're a big target.
00:52:27.180You know, you can call it hush money, but it's the settlement of a nuisance claim with a nondisclosure agreement.
00:52:32.720The other thing is, Dave, you know, the New York Post reporting on the Hunter Biden laptop was universally suppressed by the mainstream media.
00:52:44.820And we saw just two weeks ago an expose by an NPR insider saying they were intentionally keeping that out of the news at NPR because they knew that it would help Trump.
00:52:57.340And they openly said, no, this will help Trump.
00:53:00.880OK, no cash exchanged hands, but it's in principle the same exact thing.
00:53:07.760A friendly media outlet that says, I want the election to turn out a certain way and shapes its coverage accordingly.
00:53:16.060Well, Megan, first off, you're right. NBC is treating me very well, so I'm not going to criticize them.
00:53:21.340But you can see why the mainstream media is critical of a publication like the National Enquirer who was actually working with Trump to try to help his election in this case.
00:53:31.580Now, you're bringing up the New York Post story, and I think actually it's fair to bring that up because you had the press who thought this was some Russian disinformation or something that was going that was planted and they stopped it.
00:53:45.260And in the end, we don't know exactly where it came from or what, but it's something that probably should have been out there and let the people decide.
00:54:00.820And then a legally blind repairman called Rudy Giuliani.
00:54:03.820And by the way, the FBI had it, too, and verified that it was Hunter's.
00:54:07.700Well, regardless, it is something I agree with you that should be out there, actually.
00:54:12.580And as far as NBC, they're the ones who are trying to point to this National Enquirer as what you should not do.
00:54:23.100And I agree with them because you don't engage with a presidential campaign to try to figure out a way to help them get elected and be used as a tool to buy a story and to kill it just to help a campaign.
00:54:34.200Can I go back to one thing real quick, Megan?
00:54:36.600I promise real quick, because you said I was doing the gummies.
00:54:39.700But the reason why I talk about the statute of limitations issue, I just have to tell you, and Mike and I were talking off air, is because there is a provision of New York law that says that when you move away, like the White House or Florida, the statute of limitations is paused for up to five years.
00:54:54.420So that's why I still believe that even if it's just misdemeanors, that prosecutors could still bring the case against Trump for falsification of business records.
00:55:20.880There's I want to make sure I've gotten everything here.
00:55:22.420Oh, OK, this last question on the Trump trial.
00:55:27.700We had the ruling yesterday morning that virtually everything Trump has ever done is going to come in against him if he gets cross-examined.
00:55:34.520And we've been talking about this issue in New York State in connection with my pal Arthur Idala, who represents, speaking of Harvey Weinstein, he represents Harvey Weinstein.
00:55:45.740And he just had an argument before the New York State Court of Appeals, our highest court, saying you made it impossible for him to take the stand in his own defense by saying like every woman he ever, you know, interacted with or had a complaint about him was going to be allowed to take the stand against him.
00:56:03.980And like the prior bad acts evidence would have been so overwhelming.
00:56:07.820It would have absolutely ensured a conviction.
00:56:09.960And the ones they even allowed, even without him testifying, was very lengthy.
00:56:16.000So Trump is kind of facing the same thing where they had a hearing and they said if he takes a stand, it's going to be a lot of bad things we're going to let in.
00:56:24.780And this is where Andy McCarthy, he had a piece on this today, the lawfare against Trump, Dave, that's already gone down is really coming back to haunt him because the judge is going to let in the Letitia James, you know, $450 million judgment against him for fraud, corporate fraud.
00:56:45.520But the case against Weisselberg, his top financial guy who was found guilty of a criminal violation, another fraudster, the fact that he defamed E. Jean Carroll, but not the fact that he allegedly sexually assaulted her, you know, a liar.
00:57:04.980So, like, it's almost as if the Democrats have been laying the foundation for all of this to support a criminal conviction in this flimsy case all along.
00:57:17.240And so you tell me whether there's any chance, given the judge's ruling, all that can come in, that Trump will take the stand.
00:57:23.980Meghan, he was never going to take the stand.
00:57:25.720It would have been walking into a perjury trap.
00:57:28.560He'd have embarrassing details of his relationship with Stormy Daniels.
00:57:32.060And, yes, prior bad acts can come in up to the judge's discretion.
01:10:14.960Yeah, I mean, it's the Brandenburg test from the Supreme Court, the, the eminent lawlessness.
01:10:19.600And when you are threatening or actually perpetuating violence against anyone, particularly a religious
01:10:27.280minority, that's clearly a violation of many different state, local, federal laws.
01:10:33.520And where is the Biden Justice Department?
01:10:36.060Where is the Civil Rights Division in the Biden Justice Department?
01:10:39.320Where is the Biden Justice Department, Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights?
01:10:44.240They open investigations into multiple schools.
01:10:48.420All of them are mostly Ivy League schools.
01:10:52.740Mary Catherine Han was tweeting today about how she feels really good about how she's indoctrinating her children and love for SEC schools.
01:13:12.180I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.
01:13:16.840It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today.
01:13:25.040You can catch The Megan Kelly Show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love.
01:13:32.020Great people like Dr. Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megan Kelly.
01:13:39.280You can stream The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are.
01:14:15.900Next, we are joined by two incredible women who are involved in a court case in Australia that has gained international attention as it relates to the essential fight for women's rights.
01:14:25.700Sal Grover is an entrepreneur and the founder of the women-only app, Giggle.
01:14:31.940She's facing a lawsuit from a man for barring him from the app as, quote, she claims she is now a woman.
01:14:51.640Sal is joined today by one of her lawyers, Catherine Deaves, who is representing her in this landmark legal battle on which we are still awaiting a ruling.
01:15:01.740Sal and Catherine, welcome to the show.
01:15:43.440And I was sort of a shell of a person.
01:15:44.800And I went into therapy just to sort of recover from it and get the tools to sort of move on with my life.
01:15:50.520And it was my therapist who said, you need to have a strong female support network in your life.
01:15:56.480And my mom and I were just talking about it.
01:15:58.240And it was my mom who had the idea and said, why don't we create an app where women can connect to get emotional support, to find roommates?
01:17:50.680And I called my dad and I said, like, this guy who has been blocked from Giggle has called my phone.
01:17:55.620And he said, just, like, block his phone number and don't tell your mother, because my mom sees all the death threats and the abuse that women receive for speaking out about this.
01:18:57.120So, Catherine, that's where you come in.
01:18:59.440You're representing Sal and you've had your own history in dealing with this issue where you receive blowback for saying what we all know is true.
01:19:08.280Men don't belong in women's sports and standing up for the actual differences between men and women.
01:19:15.060So you were probably not surprised that this guy was causing trouble for Sal.
01:19:21.080How did you like your odds when she came to you of Sal's in this case?
01:19:26.320Well, this conflict was set up in Australian law back in 2013, and it is something that I had been researching.
01:19:34.720I came to law later in life and I had been looking at this conflict that had been created in our Sex Discrimination Act way back, would have been about 2018.
01:19:45.460And what happened was our first female Prime Minister altered the Sex Discrimination Act, which deals with discrimination against women and enables them to have equal opportunities in public life.
01:20:00.480And gender identity, sexual orientation and intersex were glommed on in 2013.
01:20:10.220So we knew that at some point there was going to be a case that was going to be brought in the federal court because this raises constitutional questions that are going to have to go to the high court to be settled.
01:20:22.540So we knew it was just a matter of time.
01:20:24.620So I'd known Sal through her advocacy around women's sex-based rights.
01:20:55.080But I do love it when you take the next step and explain just why they are so important and why, even though we might not run around articulating it every day, we know on an inherent level that we need them.
01:21:10.340So with respect to women's spaces, I mean, Sal has a daughter.
01:21:16.140I have three little girls and women should be entitled to dignity, privacy and safety, particularly when they are vulnerable, when they go out into the public sphere.
01:21:28.060And, I mean, Sal has articulated this argument as well.
01:21:31.860But women should not have to rely on the fact that they are traumatised, that they have religious or cultural restrictions, that they have suffered male violence, that they are women who maybe are ashamed of their bodies and may be overweight, postpartum, dealing with things.
01:21:48.820You know, as women, we have to deal with things that men simply do not understand.
01:21:54.180And it is right and proper for us to have male-free spaces when we go out into public, if we're using change rooms, if we're using toilets, if we're breastfeeding our children, and enable for us to participate fully in public life, we need to be able to access those spaces.
01:22:12.980I mean, years ago, they had what they called the urinary leash, which was a woman could only leave her home.
01:22:19.880The distance that she could leave her home was only as far as she could manage to hold on before she needed to go to the toilet again.
01:22:26.940So when we look at losing our, yeah, when we didn't have public toilets, I mean, we've only had public toilets, women, for around 120 years.
01:22:37.220And when they first started providing them over in Europe, you know, the men were burning them down and crashing their, crashing their horse and carts into them and so forth.
01:22:49.360So women's worlds were very restricted because if you couldn't go to your mother's house or your friend's house or somewhere where you could actually use the facilities, you couldn't travel very far.
01:22:58.520So it is absolutely critical for women to have these spaces.
01:23:02.440And we know, like with respect to women in the third world, accessing education, having single sex provision is absolutely critical to girls' attendance at school, in refugee camps.
01:23:14.720We know that sexual assault is off the charts and it's absolutely critical for women to have safe provision.
01:23:20.580So I know it's very, it's very basic and people are very denigrating of, you know, the toilet argument, but it is absolutely critical if women are able to get out there in the world and participate fully.
01:23:35.080I, you know, I keep thinking of this incident I had when I was pregnant with my first child and, you know, how it is where like you feel the baby moving and that's your daily reminder.
01:23:44.520He's doing okay in there and it's a comfort to a pregnant mother.
01:23:47.620And there was one day in which he hadn't moved and I was starting to get worried about him and I, I was working and I kind of let some time go by and finally I called my OB and she was way more concerned than I expected.
01:23:59.980And she said, I was at the Marriott about to do an interview, uh, for my job.
01:24:04.200And she said, you need to get into a women's room in the Marriott.
01:24:08.340You need to have a drink of orange juice and you need to lie down on the floor and tell me if he's moving.
01:24:13.540And I remember going in there and I'm, I'm in this Marriott bathroom with the cold floor and, uh, I go in there and I, I did it and I was scared because my first child, you know, thank God he was okay.
01:24:27.520He fired right up and there were other women in there and we were kind of looking at each other and they were sweet and they were asking if I was okay.
01:24:33.420And you felt just the sisterhood, that's all I cannot imagine if one of these men, if this guy, Roxanne had been in there looking at me, having an experience he will never have nor ever be able to relate to, it would have changed the entire dynamic.
01:24:53.140That's just one example that any, I'm sure every woman has got many that they could point to, but you know what they say, Sal, I've heard you respond to this.
01:25:01.700And I, I agree with you, but they say there aren't that many.
01:25:06.360So like, what are you complaining about?
01:25:16.240Um, just be kind comment all the time.
01:25:18.640Um, yeah, it's not kind to ask women or demand women, see men as women or to give up all of our rights, to give up our spaces, to give up our language.
01:25:28.940So if you want to have a conversation about being kind, that's actually the first hurdle you're going to have to get over is that there is going to have to be kindness to women as well.
01:25:41.500I also actually don't think it's kind to tell men who are under the delusion that they are women, that it's true.
01:25:49.140I think it's actually kindness to tell them the truth.
01:25:51.140And so even when we're talking about like the, the female only spaces, like as Kath was saying, like these are necessary, this is a kindness to women.
01:26:01.640And we are constantly being like forced to relive like these traumatic experiences that we've had to justify them.
01:26:56.460We, this is more and more the argument I hear them going to.
01:26:58.920First, we were told, Catherine, this isn't happening.
01:27:01.700You're making this up, you know, show me the incident in which a woman has been accosted or hurt in any way in a bathroom or a locker room.
01:27:08.800And now that's starting to happen more and more.
01:27:10.600And now we're hearing the argument in sports.
01:27:13.820Oh, you know, there are X number of trans athletes in women's sports, and there are millions of women playing sports.
01:27:21.640And therefore, the ratio is just so small.
01:28:14.320So once you have these men in there, as Sal pointed out, it's no longer women only.
01:28:21.160And also the amount of damage that they can do to a competition, because we hear that women self-exclude, the message that it sends to our little girls.
01:28:30.860I mean, I've got three little girls who play sport, and they see a man standing up there on the podium.
01:28:36.280And not even, you know, for example, you take Laurel Hubbard.
01:28:42.500He was competing against women less than half his age.
01:28:46.360He was not a very good weightlifter to begin with.
01:28:50.220And no matter the sacrifices that they make, no matter how hard they train, no matter how athletically gifted they are, you can have a quite ordinary, aged-out male athlete come in and take their rightful place, take the women's rightful place on the podium.
01:29:07.760So we're also sending this message to little girls of learned helplessness, that no matter what they do, a man's feelings will always be more important than their right to fairness.
01:29:16.520And I think that is an absolute betrayal of young women and girls to be teaching them that message.
01:29:52.500And so, I think that's a great question, Sal, of all the things we learn as women from birth and that we, most of us, are taught by our moms and dads.
01:30:00.440You know, if you have that instinct in the back of your head, go off, like, I might not be safe.
01:30:05.620But they don't tell you to suppress it.
01:30:10.440Yeah, I mean, it's one of the most evil parts of gender ideology is that it is telling women to ignore our instincts and our boundaries.
01:30:23.660It's part of why I don't think this is completely an accident that sort of Me Too, this sort of grassroots movement of women to have boundaries, was replaced by a movement where any woman who has boundaries is a bigot.
01:30:36.860But I think this, I don't think this is an accident.
01:30:39.540I really do think that this was almost by design where someone found a great opportunity to just come in and swoop in and take it away and put women in a worse position than we were five or six years ago.
01:30:52.400You know, it is actually kind of impossible to ignore your instincts.
01:30:57.520Like, human beings have actually evolved to be able to tell the difference between males and females.
01:31:07.240So when you see a man, you just see a man.
01:31:10.980Like, you have an involuntary reaction to that, especially if he is in a place where he shouldn't be, slash, he's not welcome.
01:31:18.640Like, that was one of the things, like, in the Tickle V Giggle case.
01:31:22.400It's like, I just saw a picture of a man and acted accordingly.
01:31:26.880And I'm being taken to federal court for that.
01:31:29.280And the Australian Human Rights Commission is against me.
01:31:32.420And it's always been my position on it is I have human rights, too, as does, by extension, every other woman and every other man in the country and the world.
01:31:42.820I think men should be able to see a man and say that's a man or that's a woman, if that's a woman, as well.
01:31:48.640Like, this, it's affecting us all in the most negative way.
01:31:53.360I can't think of one good thing that gender ideology is actually bringing to the world.
01:32:00.760And so if this ruling goes against you, this could have serious implications for all women in Australia.
01:32:08.720What what will happen if it goes against you?
01:32:13.520So if it goes against me in federal court and I'm basically so I'm found guilty of either direct or indirect discrimination, I will appeal it to the high court.
01:32:23.960I've always had that position from when it was in the Australian Human Rights Commission days.
01:32:36.800We had the hearing a week and a half ago, two weeks ago.
01:32:39.740So we'll get the verdict in the next three to six months.
01:32:42.560And then, yeah, if we lose, we then appeal to the high court.
01:32:48.300One of the things with that for the federal court, we had to raise five hundred thousand dollars to be able to say that a man is not a woman.
01:32:56.200If it goes to the high court, it will be at least another five hundred thousand dollars.
01:33:00.180So I'm basically looking at a million dollars to be able to fight for the right to say that a man is not a woman.
01:33:20.060I went to the UK to do some interviews about about six weeks ago, because in Australia, there is a total censorship on this issue.
01:33:30.200We've broken it a little bit in the last few weeks.
01:33:32.340But prior to the hearing, there was a total censorship.
01:33:36.020No one in Australian media would talk to me about the case.
01:33:39.540And it really bothered me in part because the case was allowed to happen because the judge deemed it in the public interest.
01:33:45.640And he's correct. It is in the public interest.
01:33:47.840But then the fourth estate was just not giving it any airtime.
01:33:51.700And I was like, I need people to know about this.
01:33:54.640This is really important because while it might just seem like, oh, a case about a guy just wanting to get on an app, it's actually not.
01:34:01.980It's about women's rights on a whole and our Sex Discrimination Act and our Sex Discrimination Act is linked to women's rights all around the world because of CEDAW, this International Bill of Rights, which we are defending because it is a document for biological females that is being abused by men who claim to be women and the organizations who support them.
01:34:26.280But this is going to have national implications if you lose at the high court.
01:34:33.460I understand you'll appeal, but that's, I mean, you tell me, Catherine, as the lawyer, if the high court rules against you and rules that telling a man based on his biological sex that he can't join a woman's group or a woman's web suit, if that's gender identity discrimination, which is not at all what she's thinking about.
01:34:53.900She's thinking about his biological sex, then that will be applied everywhere.
01:34:59.820I mean, this could be the thing that actually makes it, right, unlawful for women to have any spaces anywhere in Australia.
01:35:08.960So should this end up in the high court and Sal has an unfavorable outcome, it will mean that biological sex no longer exists in federal law in Australia.
01:35:18.620It's been superseded by gender identity.
01:35:24.400It is what is the meaning of the word woman within the United Nations Convention for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women.
01:35:33.140So within the International Human Rights Canon of Law, there are nine conventions, and this is the one that pertains to women and girls.
01:35:40.440And this is based on their biological sex.
01:35:44.940This convention gives rights to women because it acknowledges that women have historically been discriminated against.
01:35:53.960They suffer violence because of our sex bodies, because we, you know, men are bigger, faster, taller, stronger.
01:36:01.940It acknowledges that women have not been able to participate fully by being able to vote or have mortgages or be educated or choose who they marry.
01:36:10.260So this is absolutely predicated on our biological sex.
01:36:15.320And if the meaning of the word woman within CEDAW now includes men, it has completely upended its purpose and objective.
01:36:23.460So for any country that's a signatory to this convention, this may have ramifications.
01:36:29.240I mean, certainly the decision here is not a binding precedent, but it is the first time it will be decided at a court at this level.
01:36:36.800So it will certainly be instructive for any other countries that are facing the same problems, the United States included.
01:36:43.500So should we see litigation be brought with respect to what's happened to Title IX or the NCAA Riley Gaines's case, they may be looking to the decision of Tickle versus Giggle in how they argue the case.
01:36:57.920So this is really, really important globally, whatever happens.
01:37:03.480Well, I look forward to the UN enforcing its new potential rule against gender identity discrimination in Iran and Palestine.
01:39:51.940I think that Roxy is fully entitled to play hockey in the male team.
01:39:58.600Or if there is a unisex team where everybody is, you know, a willing participant in a male and female competition, fine.
01:40:07.320Okay, like no one's actually trying to take rights away from these men.
01:40:13.600What they're actually trying to do is take rights away from us while gaining privileges that no one else has.
01:40:20.060I mean, if you're allowing men to say that they're women and they can go into female spaces and female sport, that's giving them more rights than just men.
01:40:27.500Like they're just this group of people that have more rights than everyone else while gaslighting us all that they are the most marginalized and oppressed people on the planet.
01:40:36.180No, they're not marginalized or oppressed.
01:40:38.200They're getting laws changed in stealth.
01:40:40.100Like you think of how gay people practically had to beg for the right to get married.
01:40:44.300But men who claim to be women just get whatever they want.
01:40:47.540It's just nonsense that they're even trying to keep up this act that, yeah, that they are oppressed.
01:40:54.980But I think that when the entire premise starts with a lie, everything else that follows is a lie from that as well.
01:44:09.980I mean, we're going to have a real problem with some of these children that have been led down the garden path with this lie.
01:44:16.060And they come to the realisation later in life.
01:44:18.940And I think that here in Australia, when these children actually realise what has been done to them, that they have been experimented on, that they have had their fertility robbed, normal sexual functioning, that they are left with a whole extraordinary range of medical complications and the lawsuits start.
01:44:37.320I think probably that's what's going to happen in the US.
01:44:39.720You're going to have to have some of those extraordinarily massive payouts before they stop what they're doing, because obviously health is for profit in your country, unfortunately.
01:44:50.700But here in Australia, the CAS report has been released.
01:44:54.760And with gender medicine here, the justification for what they're doing to children has been, oh, we're just looking to the gold standard, to best practice.
01:45:05.480We're looking to what they're doing in Tavistock.
01:45:07.420And we're just replicating what they're doing.
01:45:08.920But now that the CAS report has come out, the response has been, oh, Australia is substantially different.
01:45:14.360We're not going to follow what they've come out with on that report.
01:45:17.740We're going to continue what we're doing.
01:45:19.460So unfortunately, I think it's going to have to take massive lawsuits or medical insurers who refuse to indemnify practitioners who practice this type of experimentation on children.
01:45:30.800And, you know, one, this problem snowballs on its own, because, you know, back when we were kids, the thing that girls were getting sucked into was like an eating disorder.
01:45:42.420You know, you're somebody in your class might have had one.
01:45:44.960And then you kind of started looking at it or considering it in a way maybe you hadn't before.
01:45:49.100It was its own kind of social contagion and still is for some girls.
01:45:53.460But now this is a social contagion on steroids.
01:45:57.400And the more this makes its way into our world, the more these young kids see it.
01:46:03.940And girls who are typically never affected by gender dysphoria or confusion of any kind are now the number one victims of it.
01:46:11.240And of a system that says affirm, affirm, affirm, affirm, you're you're in the cast report talked about that, too.
01:46:17.500And so now you've got Hollywood celebrities outing their allegedly trans kids at younger and younger ages.
01:46:26.840And we're supposed to celebrate it like it's totally normal.
01:46:29.640And we're bullies if we think there's something wrong with this.
01:46:33.080And in the States, you guys probably you might know of Mr. Beast.
01:47:20.700Mr. Beast's sidekick has now revealed she will be using a new name following her transition.
01:47:26.280The viral YouTube star shared a picture to her social media standing next to letters that read Ava, and she simply captioned the post.
01:47:32.520In case you haven't heard, she also changed her name across social media to Ava Chris Tyson, keeping her former forename as her middle name.
01:47:38.680The name change comes nine months after the star revealed she's transgender.
01:47:41.620I was so scared of saying I am a woman and then instantly hearing, no, you're not.
01:47:48.060Because in my head, I fought with that every day.
01:47:52.060I mean, today you showed up fully presenting as a woman.
01:48:29.200And if we were in a movement that was just about men wanting to be, like, classically feminine or girly and stuff like that, I'd be all for it.
01:49:16.920And I'll say this much, that cutting off your penis and then putting on a dress that you never worn before and you're scared to wear and tell people that you're a woman, that's living as a man.
01:50:01.260You don't put on the dress and even cut off your penis and get to join the club.
01:50:05.960Sorry, it's God-given and man-made and it cannot be changed no matter what you do.
01:50:11.620But I do worry, Catherine, about children's cartoons more and more introducing non-binary characters and trans, so-called trans characters, and Mr. Beast fronting formerly Chris, now Ava, as if this is just not even a thing.
01:50:28.200This is basically just dyeing your hair from brown to blonde.
01:50:32.460I don't think on Mr. Beast they're going to be talking about the dramatic trauma that your body goes through if you try to engage in this medical engineering.
01:50:42.820Look, this is where parents have to step in and be extremely vigilant about what their children, about the media that their children are consuming.
01:50:54.960You need to let your children's school know that you do not agree with gender identity ideology.
01:50:59.860You do not consent to them being taught anything about it.
01:51:02.640You know, for example, there is a child identifying as the opposite sex at my children's school and I said to my youngest, you can call him a he.
01:51:12.060And she said, am I going to get in trouble?
01:51:14.140I said, do you know what mummy does for a living?
01:51:16.620So, you know, I'm happy to have that fight with the principal.
01:51:20.380But we really, really need to be vigilant and particularly, you know, with children.
01:51:24.600I mean, this whole movement is so regressive.
01:51:27.120The fact that you're telling children if they don't adhere to very strict sex stereotypes that they must be the opposite sex, that we are telling them, you know, puberty is a discomfort.
01:51:38.300Yes, it's distressing and we'll put you on medication.
01:52:16.860I've talked to my own daughter about this.
01:52:19.260And, of course, they do all get, you know, acne and so on in puberty like we all did.
01:52:24.960But I really started to watch my own messaging around what happens to our bodies during puberty because there are also so many awesome things about it.
01:52:33.860You know, like you get your hips and you get your breasts and you get this beautiful shape and you get taller and your hair gets fuller.
01:52:42.980And, you know, your face changes a little and you get some angles eventually.
01:52:47.980And it's all part of this amazingly beautiful metamorphosis, you know, of girl into woman.
01:52:54.680It's these guys we're talking about, Chris or whatever Roxy was before he stole that female name, would give anything to have the beautiful joy of going through actual female puberty.
01:53:07.940It's it's something unique to us and such a once in a lifetime opportunity for these girls to really transition into these full fledged women who are going to rule the world someday.
01:53:19.460So I I do start to like, you know, I watch my own messaging around it.
01:54:34.580So we have federal court and then we've got high court after high court.
01:54:38.440If we were to lose in the high court, it would just be trying to get politicians in Australia to have some kind of political appetite to not only not even protect women's rights to actually give us some.
01:55:12.400More people now know what's happening than they did a week ago because something really stupid happens and more people wake up to it.
01:55:18.920So I actually think that they were able to get most of the stuff into laws and organizations all around the world because they did it in stealth.
01:55:27.140They don't really have that as an asset anymore.
01:55:29.660I mean, from four years ago when I found out what was going on to how it is now, it's just a completely different atmosphere.
01:55:36.640And I think that we are all going to win eventually because the truth does eventually win out.
01:55:42.600Gender ideology is a complete lie from start to finish.
01:55:45.940And so, no, I think bad ideologies do fall eventually.
01:55:50.640We just have to push back and push back until they do.