The Megyn Kelly Show - New Bombshell Would-Be Trump Assassin Reporting, Attacks on Vance, and MTG's CNN Apology, with Glenn Greenwald ｜ Ep. 1195

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00:01:00.820 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:01:02.620 Live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:12.460 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:01:14.160 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Monday.

00:01:16.340 It is the beginning of a big week.

00:01:18.340 Our final week on tour for Megyn Kelly Live.

00:01:21.280 Beginning Thursday, we're heading out west with stops in California and Arizona.

00:01:26.700 And we will close our tour Saturday with Walter Kern and a powerful conversation with Erica Kirk in her hometown.

00:01:34.520 In Anaheim, California on Friday, Maureen Callahan, Jillian Michaels, and the Fifth Column.

00:01:40.520 And on Thursday in Bakersfield, California, I'm going to be joined by VDH, Charlie Sheen.

00:01:47.140 And we just added Jack Posobiec, who I'm—it's Jack Posobiec.

00:01:51.940 I always say Posobiec because I thought it was pronounced that way for a long time.

00:01:55.140 But it's Jack Posobiec, who's amazing and who has been so impressive in the wake of our loss of Charlie.

00:02:01.740 I mean, when he stood up there with those rosary beads in his hand at the Charlie Memorial, I—it was the first moment I actually felt better.

00:02:10.100 Truly, like, he's very Catholic and very connected with God.

00:02:15.040 And his faith and renewal of faith in the wake of Charlie and encouragement to the rest of us in this department has been personally inspiring.

00:02:25.120 Anyway, I can't wait to meet him again and see him and talk to him.

00:02:28.640 Oh, and by the way, Steve Hilton, our pal who's running for governor of California and last we checked was actually in the lead by one point, is going to swing by again.

00:02:36.640 So go buy tickets for our last three stops at megankelly.com and sign up for a VIP ticket if you would like so we can meet in person.

00:02:45.880 Cannot wait to see you on the road.

00:02:47.220 This whole tour has been so great.

00:02:49.660 I love seeing you all in person.

00:02:52.000 I said before we launched this that I needed it, and I didn't even know how true that was when I said it.

00:02:58.320 So I hope to see you.

00:02:59.540 Again, it's megankelly.com.

00:03:01.560 Okay, let's get to the news.

00:03:03.320 Sixteen months after the attempted assassination of President Donald Trump on the campaign trail in Butler, Pennsylvania,

00:03:09.900 we find out, thanks to new reporting—okay, this just hit in the New York Post via Miranda Devine today—

00:03:15.320 that the man accused of shooting President Trump, then candidate Trump, had a furry fetish and used they-them pronouns.

00:03:27.500 I mean, this is unbelievable.

00:03:29.440 I'm not talking about the Charlie assassin or his boyfriend.

00:03:34.160 I'm talking about the Trump attempted assassin in Butler, Pennsylvania, had a furry fetish and used they-them pronouns, reports the New York Post.

00:03:45.480 This is just—how many of these are we going to have to see this in?

00:03:48.880 How many times does this have to turn out to be the story?

00:03:51.200 And where did those websites lead him?

00:03:54.860 To whom did those websites lead him?

00:03:57.960 That's one of the questions we want answered.

00:04:00.240 And we also have news from Tucker Carlson on this guy's online social media use in a stunning report he dropped on Thursday.

00:04:07.580 We'll get to it.

00:04:08.080 Plus, the Epstein files cause a fresh firestorm inside MAGA, with Marjorie Taylor Greene and President Trump, well, breaking up.

00:04:17.460 Joining me now to react to this and more is Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and host of System Update on Rumble, Glenn Greenwald.

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00:05:41.880 Glenn, welcome back.

00:05:43.700 Great to be back with you, Megan.

00:05:44.800 Thanks for having me.

00:05:46.080 Great to see you.

00:05:46.740 So, Tucker's documentary on this shooter, Thomas Crooks, was must-see TV.

00:05:54.440 It's only 34 minutes.

00:05:55.560 People can watch it very quickly.

00:05:57.360 He dropped it Thursday.

00:05:58.740 I encourage everybody to go and watch it.

00:06:00.920 And what happened was somebody, according to Tucker, leaked him some leads on this shooter that had never before been unearthed.

00:06:09.700 And we don't know whether they'd been unearthed even by the FBI.

00:06:13.640 And that's a big question.

00:06:14.440 Does the FBI have this stuff and just didn't tell us?

00:06:18.000 Or did the FBI not have any of it?

00:06:21.340 Tucker has outlined this guy's social media use, which was deeply disturbing, and pointed to this guy being very right-wing up until January 2020.

00:06:34.620 He was defending Trump.

00:06:36.900 He was very pro-Trump.

00:06:38.820 He also, this is not the right-wing part, happened to be racist, it sounded.

00:06:42.900 He was making some, you know, very racially charged posts.

00:06:45.440 And then in January of 2020, it was like a 180.

00:06:50.140 And he started to sound much more like a far-left progressive activist.

00:06:54.080 And it escalated more and more and more over time.

00:06:59.040 And I'm going to read you some of these, okay?

00:07:00.720 So it started with him with posts such as, okay, this is July 2019 in response to an MSNBC video.

00:07:16.100 Science wins.

00:07:16.820 Science wins.

00:07:18.540 You can't not only, well, I'm trying to, this doesn't make sense, but it says, not only was he born here, he also belongs here. 0.99

00:07:24.420 Ilhan Omar and others are invaders, he wrote, and should honestly be killed and their dead bodies sent back. 0.79

00:07:30.800 And then Tucker highlights a series of increasingly violent rhetoric used in these texts. 0.98

00:07:37.200 July 20th, 2019, said Donald Trump was the literal definition of patriotism. 0.99

00:07:42.180 Seven hours later, says, I hope a quick, painful death to all the deplorable immigrants and anti-Trump congresswomen who don't deserve anything this country has given them. 1.00

00:07:51.100 That evening, a separate post. 1.00

00:07:53.760 Every one of the Trump-hating Democrats deserve to have their heads chopped off, put on stakes for the world to see what happens when you fuck with America. 1.00

00:08:00.800 This continued for months and became increasingly violent in tone. 1.00

00:08:04.320 There was one about the squad saying, this will be blatantly racist, but I hope Trump has these people murdered.

00:08:10.740 I think Tucker's showing us not only that he used to be pro-Trump, as he explicitly said, but very, very violent rhetoric that would generally get you on the radar of the FBI, given the officials that he was threatening. 0.65

00:08:24.600 In one comment, he notes, 50 million Americans with AR-15s will make quick work of any blockades the government can put to protect the White House.

00:08:33.340 September of 19, most rioters don't bring assault rifles and body armor like we would, and we wouldn't be going to the streets.

00:08:40.320 We'd be going to Washington.

00:08:41.400 Washington, I mean, it's getting more and more violent.

00:08:43.880 So again, you're thinking the FBI keeps tabs on some of these things, but maybe, maybe not.

00:08:49.700 Crooks responds in another text saying, cops can't arrest me if they're all dead.

00:08:53.640 And adding, even an untrained man with an AR-15 is dangerous.

00:08:58.040 You think the Newtown school shooter or any school shooter trained?

00:09:01.660 Nope.

00:09:02.820 And by the way, Tucker reports that that last exchange is still on the internet available, but the FBI didn't see that.

00:09:09.880 He argues, he asks, that's hard to believe that they didn't see it.

00:09:13.540 He starts attacking Robert Mueller in July of 2019. 0.98

00:09:16.100 He should be hanged with the rest of the Democrats. 0.99

00:09:18.540 This is a witch hunt and so on. 1.00

00:09:20.800 Then, okay, there's a shot at Jews. 0.75

00:09:25.200 And then as of January 23, 2020, he seems to change radically, reports Tucker, having seen the social media. 1.00

00:09:31.860 He refers to, quote, Trump's stupidity. 1.00

00:09:34.760 He began to mock the concept of the deep state. 1.00

00:09:37.020 It's simply made up on anyone who disagrees with the right wing.

00:09:40.960 Conversation over. 1.00

00:09:42.180 He, in February 2020, called out Trump supporters as, quote, too brainwashed to realize how dumb they are. 1.00

00:09:47.720 Same day, he called them racist. 1.00

00:09:49.200 People are just racist and Trump is one of them.

00:09:52.140 In April of 2020, peak phase of the coronavirus lockdown.

00:09:55.940 Sometimes public safety comes before your personal rights.

00:09:59.780 Crook became very critical of conservative media.

00:10:02.640 Viruses don't spread through race, just like Tucker Carlson probably told you.

00:10:07.180 Four months later, August of 2020, writes, in my opinion, the only way to fight the government is with terrorism style attacks.

00:10:13.980 Sneak a bomb into an essential building, set it off before anyone sees you.

00:10:17.620 Track down any important people or politicians, military leaders, and try to assassinate them. 0.94

00:10:21.940 Any sort of head-to-head fight is suicidal.

00:10:24.320 Even ambush or surprise attacks likely aren't going to end well.

00:10:28.840 That was prophetic.

00:10:29.440 And then Tucker introduces this.

00:10:33.380 At this point, after around August of 2020, someone who goes by Willie Tepes, T-E-P-E-S, online, introduces himself into the Crooks conversation.

00:10:45.580 He started pressuring Crooks to commit violence.

00:10:49.100 For example, quote, if a gun and a badge is all that's needed, then authority obviously comes from that barrel of a gun.

00:10:56.200 We have more guns than they do.

00:10:57.920 There is no way we can avoid a war at this point, so you better just get used to it.

00:11:02.060 We have nothing to lose and everything to win.

00:11:04.260 In another post, the alternative, a global police state, is unacceptable.

00:11:08.440 Nothing in life is simple, but that is no argument against doing it.

00:11:11.860 Here's a bit from the Tucker documentary on Willie Tepes.

00:11:15.380 At that point, a new character emerged into the conversation, a user named Willie Tepes, who started pressuring Crooks to commit violence.

00:11:26.520 For example, quote, if a gun and a badge is all that is needed, then authority obviously comes from the barrel of a gun.

00:11:33.680 We have more guns than they do.

00:11:35.720 There is no way we can avoid a war at this point, so you better just get used to the idea.

00:11:40.360 We have nothing to lose and everything to win.

00:11:42.880 And the alternative, a global police state, is unacceptable.

00:11:46.980 Nothing in life is simple, but that is no argument against doing it.

00:11:50.940 We do know, however, that Crooks' online footprint abruptly ends after his encounter with this mysterious figure, Willie Tepes.

00:11:58.740 Regardless of whoever Willie Tepes is or was and what his motives may have been, who he may have been working for,

00:12:04.580 there is no doubt that Crooks was ripe for recruitment by someone.

00:12:08.640 Okay, Glenn, after that long intro, forgive me for taking so long on it, what do you make of it?

00:12:15.700 Because the FBI is now on defense trying to defend the breadth of its investigation, trying to suggest they've done everything one would want them to do,

00:12:25.300 and disputing that Thomas Crooks had much of an online footprint, though they're not specifically denying that these are his.

00:12:32.060 I think that's the main question, right?

00:12:35.980 I mean, we spent many years very critical of the deep state, of the FBI, of the CIA, for their secrecy,

00:12:43.020 for their refusal to inform the American people what we have a right to know, of their propagandistic deceit of everybody for political ends.

00:12:51.460 And there was a promise that when the Trump administration got elected and Dan Bongino and Kash Patel were in the FBI, everything was going to change.

00:13:00.480 And now we're left about one of the most consequential news events that we have, which is this attempted assassination on President Trump's life that almost succeeded.

00:13:09.460 We have to be relying on Tucker Carlson and Miranda Devine and the New York Post to piece together little bits and pieces about what they've been able to determine.

00:13:18.720 We don't know how much else there is in the FBI's possession that might affect the picture or change the picture.

00:13:25.260 And yet we learned more about Thomas Crooks in the last week from Tucker and then from the New York Post than we have in the last 10 months since the Trump administration was inaugurated.

00:13:34.260 Why is that? Why haven't they told us about Thomas Crooks? There's no trial. He's dead.

00:13:40.200 They've denied that there's any conspiracy, that he worked with anybody, so there's no legal proceeding to impede.

00:13:45.420 Why are they keeping all that a secret?

00:13:46.880 Why won't they even say if they have this or what else they have?

00:13:49.660 I think that's what we ought to be demanding.

00:13:52.060 Totally agree. This is very odd that just now Tucker comes out with this information.

00:13:59.000 Miranda Devine, I don't know. I have no idea, Glenn.

00:14:02.160 My suspicion is that Tucker dropped this bomb on Thursday.

00:14:05.960 The FBI was defending itself over the weekend since Thursday.

00:14:09.680 And then Miranda Devine gets a big scoop on Monday. 1.00

00:14:14.020 Do not have anything to back this up other than my suspicion that the FBI probably provided this data to Miranda.

00:14:19.660 That's my guess because she just has excellent sources inside the government. 1.00

00:14:23.100 And to me, this almost seems like a head fake, like a look over here instead of at what Tucker did,

00:14:29.360 because it's just too coincidental that, as you point out, we've had nothing on this guy, nothing.

00:14:33.380 And now suddenly two big, two big information dumps.

00:14:36.760 Tucker's, he's being honest about exactly where he got it.

00:14:40.240 Then comes this stuff about he's a furry.

00:14:42.900 You tell me, why would the government not have shared that?

00:14:46.780 Like, truly, why wouldn't the FBI have been sharing that, the furry thing with us?

00:14:51.280 Because this FBI did share that around the Nashville shooter, you know, the young woman who was identifying as male, whereas Biden's FBI wouldn't.

00:15:04.040 But this FBI did share those facts about that shooter.

00:15:06.800 This FBI did share those facts about the Charlie shooter.

00:15:10.980 So I'm a little confused as to what may be going on behind the scenes.

00:15:15.360 Right. And also in terms of the political trajectory that Tucker outlined, and that was great reporting,

00:15:23.080 because it took you along the way on this political path that this shooter seemed to have traversed by virtue of analyzing his online footprint

00:15:32.540 from going from somebody on the far right, you know, ranting or raving against Khalil Omar and Rashida Tlaib

00:15:39.140 and the squad need to be murdered and immigrants need to be murdered, you know, to something that resembles some someone more on the left, 0.81

00:15:48.020 very critical of Trump for his handling of covid by not taking seriously enough and other kinds of progressive rhetoric. 0.99

00:15:54.820 I mean, it could be that at the end of the day, this is just a very confused person, could be a nihilist.

00:15:59.400 But why why don't we have this information in our possession?

00:16:02.520 This is also something you would think Kash Patel and Dan Bongino and Pam Bondi and the Trump administration would want the public to know.

00:16:09.140 In other words, you know, you could accuse them of acting politically if the person were a conservative or on the right,

00:16:15.940 just thought President Trump wasn't conservative enough. Maybe you could say, oh, well, they're on the right.

00:16:19.840 They didn't want to have somebody on the right be blamed. But what about all the reporting that undercuts that

00:16:24.700 and that suggests that he had a different ideology? What possible motive do they have for hiding that?

00:16:30.760 And, you know, I do think that we have to be careful about embracing conspiracy theories.

00:16:34.800 But the reason people do so is because of behavior like this.

00:16:38.620 You know, Tucker's asking the question, did he go and get trained to the gun range by anybody?

00:16:42.960 Who was this person online who seemed to be targeting him?

00:16:46.280 How is it possible the FBI didn't know about him beforehand, given how explicit these violent threats were?

00:16:51.520 And when you have the FBI hiding information and refusing to answer those basic questions,

00:16:55.780 of course, conspiracy theories are going to emerge in that because that's how trust and faith by the American public is lost in these institutions.

00:17:02.280 Mm-hmm. The clear implication, in my view, of Tucker's piece is that the guy was recruited by somebody to conduct this horrific act.

00:17:13.100 And maybe it began with this character who goes by Willie Tepes. Maybe it was. Maybe it was somebody else.

00:17:22.540 Tucker goes on to report that the FBI has made no mention of this Tepes guy in public,

00:17:28.700 though they certainly know he exists, he reports.

00:17:31.880 He goes on to say, just days after the shooting, somebody screenshotted Tepes' YouTube page,

00:17:37.560 despite the fact that he had very few followers.

00:17:41.140 And they said, you can now find this guy's username being used on a foreign Antifa website.

00:17:48.140 He also reports that Thomas Crooks' online footprint abruptly ends after his encounter with this mysterious figure, Willie Tepes.

00:18:00.580 So he seems to me to be clearly implying that perhaps Willie Tepes recruited Crooks for someone,

00:18:08.500 alerted someone that this is a hothead who's got some mental problems and is prone to violence.

00:18:14.320 And where did it go for there? One of the things Tucker pointed out in this documentary is they cremated his body.

00:18:22.820 And it was done, I think, 10 days after he died, thus getting rid of any chance to do any follow-up testing on drugs in the system, etc.

00:18:32.540 And he's suggesting that seems awfully quick on a guy you knew was attempting to assassinate the likely next president of the United States.

00:18:43.880 I don't know, Glenn, this whole thing stinks.

00:18:46.620 I mean, Susan Crabtree, who I really trust, she reports for Real Clear Politics and she covers the Secret Service for them. 0.63

00:18:54.100 She's a totally above-board reporter.

00:18:57.560 And she responded as follows.

00:19:00.240 Crooks was on YouTube threatening to kill government officials.

00:19:03.340 And he was called out for it by another user, which is true.

00:19:06.860 She says, why didn't the FBI find these posts?

00:19:09.360 Why hasn't this ever been released?

00:19:11.240 Why don't we know who that user is who called him out?

00:19:13.480 That person should at least be considered a hero, she says.

00:19:15.520 And then she writes, the FBI was stonewalling Senator Ron Johnson and Senator Rand Paul's staff as of the one-year anniversary of Butler.

00:19:24.480 This is her story.

00:19:25.740 Like, she's the one who broke all the big news on the Secret Service around Butler.

00:19:28.980 And she says, the FBI was stonewalling two Senate offices as of the one-year anniversary of Butler, both Senate offices stated.

00:19:35.020 One of those offices said the Trump FBI was at first cooperating this spring and even had a briefing with Senate staffers on Crooks.

00:19:44.120 And I'm Butler, et cetera.

00:19:46.660 But then abruptly stopped doing so, which earned a triple exclamation point from me in my notes, Glenn.

00:19:55.180 Something's going on here.

00:19:56.980 It's not that I don't trust Cash and Dan.

00:19:59.200 It's that I think they have something that, for whatever reason, they feel strongly they cannot tell us.

00:20:04.860 Right, but that is sort of a metric of trust.

00:20:11.300 Whether the people in government do what people in government have long done, which is hide information from the American public,

00:20:18.300 and feed us a story that's untrue because they somehow think it's for the greater good that we be deceived or kept in the dark.

00:20:26.360 When in a democracy, we're actually supposed to know these things and be treated like adults and we're not supposed to have information kept from us.

00:20:34.800 Or they're protecting something that doesn't deserve protection.

00:20:38.520 And let's just be very explicit about this.

00:20:40.040 The last time there was a president who was murdered and Trump came extremely close.

00:20:43.100 It's not like this was a fake assassination attempt or one district, right? 0.94

00:20:46.520 It was like a millimeter away from blowing his head off.

00:20:49.560 The last time that happened to a president, a president who has his head blown off, was John F. Kennedy.

00:20:53.360 And because of the secrecy around that, because of the lack of candor in our institutions,

00:20:59.200 because of the bizarre way that the Warren Commission was constituted,

00:21:01.980 where they had the head of the CIA and others who were the suspects,

00:21:04.860 and the minds of a lot of people on that commission decreeing the truth,

00:21:08.160 70 years later, people still suspect that our government might have had some role in that.

00:21:11.960 And when someone like President Trump, who was so hated by many factions inside the government,

00:21:18.540 particularly the deep state, as he himself and his movement has long maintained, 0.58

00:21:21.740 and I certainly have as well, comes very close to having their head blown off in a way that suggests

00:21:27.020 at least malfeasance on the part of those who are supposed to be protecting him, if not worse,

00:21:31.880 then people do start wondering, was there the involvement of government agencies or foreign or domestic ones?

00:21:37.800 And that's a natural curiosity to have.

00:21:40.960 The problem is that gets exacerbated when the FBI does what it's doing in this case,

00:21:45.620 which is not just stonewalling us, but even the elected members of our Congress,

00:21:50.560 ones from the Republican Party who can't be accused of acting politically or with a motive to get Trump.

00:21:56.000 So to the extent their behavior is now under suspicion,

00:21:59.760 they really have no one but themselves to blame.

00:22:01.740 And we need an explanation.

00:22:03.220 Like, why is this information being hidden?

00:22:05.100 What are the answers to these questions?

00:22:07.360 Yes.

00:22:07.860 Why, like, why can't they come out and say, we knew about these accounts?

00:22:11.280 We haven't released everything.

00:22:13.020 You know, it's an ongoing investigation, whatever they want to say.

00:22:14.880 But like, yes, we knew about the accounts.

00:22:16.320 Or no, we didn't know about the accounts.

00:22:17.800 This is all new and interesting information.

00:22:19.420 Um, that seems like a basic, like, that doesn't seem like too big a risk because the investigation,

00:22:24.880 of course, as you point out, it should be over.

00:22:28.100 It really should be over.

00:22:29.580 The guy's dead.

00:22:30.560 There's no trial that's happening here.

00:22:32.140 But Kash Patel put out the following.

00:22:34.060 Just want to clarify.

00:22:34.860 I said Tucker's podcast hit Thursday.

00:22:37.500 It was teased on Thursday.

00:22:38.500 It hit Friday, just for those who want to go back and watch it.

00:22:40.640 Um, and then on November 14th, so wait, what was Friday?

00:22:45.340 I'm going to pull up my dates.

00:22:47.120 Friday was the 14th.

00:22:49.020 And later that night on the 14th, Kash Patel tweeted, it's long, but I'll give you the

00:22:53.280 highlights.

00:22:53.840 There were over 480 FBI employees involved in this investigation.

00:22:57.200 They conducted over 1,000 interviews, addressed over 2,000 public tips, analyzed data from 13

00:23:02.740 seized digital devices, reviewed nearly 50, no, 500,000 digital files, collected process,

00:23:08.600 synchronized hundreds of hours of video footage, analyzed financial activity from 10 different

00:23:12.640 accounts, examined data associated with 25 social media or online forum accounts, examined

00:23:18.960 over 20 online accounts around the possibility of Thomas Crooks.

00:23:24.940 He's not necessarily saying that it was his data extracted from over a dozen electronic devices,

00:23:30.940 examination of numerous financial accounts, over 1,000 interviews for him, around him.

00:23:35.860 I mean the investigation, and then he goes on to repeat himself and finally says, um, all

00:23:40.900 this revealed Crooks had limited online and in-person interactions, planned and conducted

00:23:49.180 the attack alone and did not leak or share his intent to engage in the attack with anyone.

00:23:55.900 And then interestingly, Eric Trump, who in his book under siege and separately has been publicly

00:24:02.820 casting doubt on this investigation, saying, I, I don't know why we know so little about this

00:24:08.780 guy Crooks.

00:24:09.460 I know it's suspicious to me, responded to Kash Patel same night saying, thank you, Kash Patel

00:24:15.620 and Dan Bongino, Dan Bongino.

00:24:17.980 This is good to see.

00:24:21.480 That's weird too.

00:24:22.960 Like, I don't know.

00:24:25.080 It sounds a little perfunctory.

00:24:26.640 It sounds like there was a coordination there.

00:24:28.320 Like, this is just my complete speculation, unsupported for the record, that they, they've

00:24:32.920 reached a determination on why it's not in anybody's interest to say more.

00:24:36.260 And they've convinced Eric Trump of that fact.

00:24:38.640 And then your mind goes to, well, what, what could that be?

00:24:41.740 Like, who could possibly have been behind it?

00:24:43.940 Right.

00:24:44.180 A foreign government with whom we don't want a war someone who it's better, like, let's 0.98

00:24:48.260 just totally speculation, not, not supported.

00:24:50.720 Let's say it's China, you know, and even president Trump, he's trying to have a good relationship

00:24:54.800 with China.

00:24:55.500 It doesn't make anybody's life better, life better for us to declare war with China and 1.00

00:25:00.240 go into some sort of extended foreign policy, you know, stiff arm of China.

00:25:04.020 This is completely speculative.

00:25:05.520 There is no evidence it was China.

00:25:07.060 But I'm just saying there could be a situation like that where they know something that they

00:25:11.540 think net net justifies not sharing any of this.

00:25:15.540 You go.

00:25:17.300 I don't think there is such a, I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong in your speculation that

00:25:21.560 they're thinking that way.

00:25:22.380 I don't think there is, however, a justification no matter what.

00:25:26.940 So let's just remember two things.

00:25:28.380 First of all, the only conceivable justification for not releasing information to the public

00:25:32.840 that they have in their possession about who this person was and what motivated him was

00:25:37.020 is whether there's an ongoing investigation, meaning they're still trying to figure out whether

00:25:40.880 he worked with anyone else, individuals, groups, organizations, foreign countries.

00:25:47.980 In other words, a conspiracy.

00:25:49.440 But they're affirmatively stating that's not the case.

00:25:52.160 They're saying that nobody recruited him.

00:25:54.020 Nobody trained him.

00:25:54.740 Nobody worked with him.

00:25:55.460 He was a lone wolf.

00:25:56.380 He was a lone actor.

00:25:57.880 They're not being silent about that.

00:25:59.400 They're affirmatively saying that.

00:26:01.240 So once they say that, there is no more excuse to withhold information that they have about

00:26:07.000 the shooter from the public because there's no investigation to jeopardize.

00:26:10.500 The other thing that I find very disturbing, Megan, and Tucker alluded to this in his report,

00:26:14.880 is that throughout 2024, we were constantly hearing leaks at the same time that there were

00:26:20.220 a lot of people trying to agitate for a war with Iran that the Iranian government was behind

00:26:25.100 these assassination plots, that the Iranian government was trying to assassinate Trump.

00:26:29.020 And anybody who knows President Trump knows that if you want to provoke him into a military

00:26:32.580 conflict with a country, all you have to do is tell him that that country is behind an effort 0.96

00:26:37.980 to try and kill you, and that's even more so once a bullet whizzes past your head and 0.98

00:26:42.380 comes very close to ending your life. 0.99

00:26:44.760 Were those claims true?

00:26:46.440 Were they fabricated to try and lure him and our country into another war?

00:26:50.840 We know that he did bomb Iran, but not nearly as much as people would have liked, but he 0.91

00:26:54.280 still did bomb it.

00:26:54.980 But that's why there's a lot of important questions surrounding this.

00:26:58.800 And while it may be true that Kash Patel and Dan Bongino and others in the government think

00:27:02.580 it's somehow best that, like children, we just not be exposed to unpleasant facts, that's

00:27:07.680 not how our country is supposed to work.

00:27:09.280 Absence of an extremely compelling reason, namely protecting the innocent or exposing sources

00:27:15.100 or impeding an investigation, none of which they're saying is true, we have an absolute right

00:27:19.640 to these answers.

00:27:21.440 Yeah, we do.

00:27:22.080 We have a right to them.

00:27:23.160 That's the galling part.

00:27:24.440 We do have a right to them.

00:27:25.800 This is our country.

00:27:27.020 Like anybody who's running the country or, you know, whether it's at the congressional

00:27:30.860 level or even in the White House is temporary.

00:27:33.080 They're there temporarily and we're grateful for their service, but it's our country and

00:27:36.900 we have a right to know.

00:27:37.800 We have future generations who are going to run for these offices, who should know what

00:27:40.920 the risks are, who should know who our enemies are.

00:27:43.460 You know, there's all sorts of reasons why these things are in the public eye and in the

00:27:49.420 public interest and we deserve disclosure on them.

00:27:51.780 As you point out, the JFK assassination happened before we were, either one of us was born and

00:27:57.300 still, still, you can't go 12 months without having big breaking news on that assassination.

00:28:02.920 I do want to spend a minute on the Miranda Devine reporting from the New York Post.

00:28:06.940 She writes as follows, Thomas Crooks appears to have been interested in, quote, furries.

00:28:12.160 For the listening audience, I think we know what this is now, but just in case, you know,

00:28:15.480 we have new people.

00:28:16.740 A furry is like a person who identifies as some sort of animal and they wear animal costumes.

00:28:26.720 They're like half human, half animals.

00:28:28.660 And it's a sexual fetish for most.

00:28:31.080 I suppose there's some small contingent for whom it does not have a sexual element, but the 0.85

00:28:34.560 overwhelming number of people who consider themselves a furry have this link to like kink

00:28:40.060 and fetish websites.

00:28:41.380 And it is an offshoot of the trans movement.

00:28:43.780 They're very closely linked.

00:28:45.080 And it happens to have been the main thing of the boyfriend of Charlie Kirk's alleged shooter.

00:28:52.240 His alleged shooter was a guy named Tyler Robinson, and he was living with and dating a trans-identified

00:28:58.780 furry.

00:28:59.320 And now we find out Thomas Crooks, the Trump attempted assassin, appears to have been interested

00:29:06.360 in furries and was exploring gender identity, per the New York Post.

00:29:11.220 He described himself with the pronouns they, them on the platform DeviantArt, which is one

00:29:17.580 of the biggest online hubs for furry art and the furry community.

00:29:22.960 Two accounts linked to the crook's primary email were found on DeviantArt under usernames EpicMicrowave

00:29:31.060 and ThePicMicrowave.

00:29:34.440 The account suggests he had an obsession with scantily clad cartoon characters sporting muscle-bound

00:29:42.200 male bodies and female heads. 0.93

00:29:45.100 This is sick, but if true, part of a pattern now, Glenn.

00:29:52.420 I mean, I talked about the Nashville school shooter, and then we saw it wasn't a furry,

00:29:57.720 but it was a trans, with the Minneapolis school shooter, the Charlie Cook shooter, and his lover

00:30:05.240 into the trans-furry culture.

00:30:07.720 And now Thomas Crooks, the guy accused of trying to assassinate Donald Trump, into furry culture

00:30:14.640 and the trans thing.

00:30:15.860 I'm sorry.

00:30:16.920 Look, I know a lot of the audience is going to be saying, that's a cover, right?

00:30:21.840 Like, they're dangling the shiny thing over here, and I'm open-minded to that totally,

00:30:26.040 but I'm really open-minded to it being totally true as well, because we've seen it time and

00:30:30.660 time again.

00:30:31.280 And why are we only learning about that right now?

00:30:33.280 Well, I mean, I think that's a question for the FBI, and this is the thing, you know,

00:30:40.380 I think we have to be a little bit careful, just because, I don't know if you saw, but

00:30:45.960 it was like a week ago, Bill Maher had on his show a couple of guests who were more or

00:30:50.720 less his generation, and they were trying to talk about Nick Fuentes, and they were talking

00:30:53.380 about Grapers, and they were like, what is it?

00:30:56.020 They barely knew what it was.

00:30:57.520 They were, like, trying to explain it.

00:30:58.880 Their explanation was, it just sounded like an old person trying to describe young internet

00:31:03.260 culture in a way that was very embarrassing.

00:31:05.580 These, this, like, online ethos and culture, it's almost like a chicken and egg question.

00:31:11.140 Like, does it take mentally ill people and attract them to it, or does once people experience 0.74

00:31:17.380 it, does it turn them mentally ill?

00:31:19.860 And I think there's a lot, I mean, I, in general, I think that when you have these kind

00:31:24.360 of shooters, people who go to schools and shoot up schools, or people who attack government

00:31:27.740 institutions, or people who try and blow the head off of a former president, somebody who's 0.86

00:31:33.240 leading the polls to be president, mental illness has to be part of it.

00:31:36.940 And again, if this is part of how the mental illness manifested, and I do think it's something 0.96

00:31:44.620 that we ought to think about and look at, because there is some indicia that these two

00:31:49.520 things are correlated.

00:31:50.320 I want to know that from the government.

00:31:52.420 Like, I want to see the full picture.

00:31:53.920 You know, I think Miranda Devine is a great reporter. 0.96

00:31:56.600 I'm not at all suggesting that she's done anything at all.

00:31:59.700 But I'm just saying, when you're a reporter, and you know this well, you have a source,

00:32:03.720 or, you know, maybe the source is feeding you stuff that they want you to know, even

00:32:07.620 though it's true, but it's somehow selected or handpicked.

00:32:10.700 Maybe it's not entirely true.

00:32:13.020 You know, this is why the government, which is the one that has the power to get all this

00:32:17.500 information, has subpoena power, surveillance equipment, everything.

00:32:21.740 They're the ones with the information.

00:32:23.020 I want the answers from them.

00:32:24.200 Like, is this true?

00:32:25.280 Was this an interest of his?

00:32:26.640 Was it formative in his life?

00:32:28.760 What was his politics?

00:32:30.040 What was his motive?

00:32:30.780 Who did he talk to?

00:32:31.920 All of these, what did the key question, did the FBI know about him beforehand?

00:32:35.940 Was he known to the government or to local authorities?

00:32:38.980 These are questions we can only get from the government.

00:32:41.700 Great, huge credit to Tucker and Miranda for telling us things we didn't know that we should

00:32:45.840 know, but these answers have to come from the FBI.

00:32:49.380 Yes, but don't you find it suspicious?

00:32:51.220 And second, everything is, I love Miranda Devine.

00:32:53.460 She's a national treasure.

00:32:55.120 But don't you find it suspicious that this drops the Monday after the Friday that Tucker's

00:33:01.160 report drops?

00:33:03.180 Yes, yes.

00:33:04.640 Well, and also, you know, again, if we're looking at things politically, when the Charlie

00:33:10.060 Kirk shooter was apprehended, the alleged Charlie Kirk shooter, the FBI ran, rushed, Kash Patel

00:33:16.980 himself did, to make clear the link between the alleged shooter and his partner who was

00:33:24.040 trans or undergoing some sort of transition in their immersion in trans culture.

00:33:27.620 That was something that the government, you know, ideologically would want known.

00:33:32.960 Why wasn't that true here?

00:33:34.940 If they suspect that the person who tried to murder Donald Trump became very close to had

00:33:39.600 some kind of connection to the trans community or gender identity ideology or whatever, why

00:33:43.920 did we learn about this only a year later after Tucker raised a whole set of other questions

00:33:49.440 that were unrelated?

00:33:51.280 All of them could be true.

00:33:52.860 Most of them could be true.

00:33:53.920 But I agree with you completely.

00:33:55.240 Like, did Miranda Devine get that information from the government because they want to redirect 0.84

00:33:58.600 her attention over to there?

00:33:59.720 Something that's more politically palatable to distract questions, attention from the

00:34:03.180 questions Tucker raised?

00:34:04.660 That's why I'm just hesitant to jump to these conclusions and start analyzing the phenomenon

00:34:09.280 in the context of the shooter until we have reliable information.

00:34:13.100 Here's an even scarier thought than it's the FBI trying to distract us from the Tucker report.

00:34:22.140 Again, we're speculating here.

00:34:23.800 The audience is with us by this point.

00:34:25.420 They know this, um, that the FBI didn't find either one of these, like, to me, that's

00:34:31.980 even scarier that, that they didn't find this because Miranda describes her reporting as

00:34:37.800 based on quote, an enterprising source who uncovered Crooks's hidden digital footprint.

00:34:45.200 Now, Tucker did not have any of this in his Friday report.

00:34:49.100 There was nothing about trans furry culture.

00:34:52.120 So his information uncovered by a, like, pretty comprehensive search of the guy's digital

00:34:58.220 footprint that we don't know whether the FBI had that or not, but didn't have this.

00:35:03.360 And Tucker would have told us if this were in there.

00:35:05.320 I feel certain.

00:35:06.100 I don't think he would have hidden this.

00:35:07.680 Um, no.

00:35:08.740 And then she comes out with this.

00:35:10.520 So who is the enterprising source?

00:35:12.760 I mean, normally, normally you might say a source close to the investigation, a government

00:35:18.480 source, a source in a position to know, you know, if you're dealing with somebody right

00:35:23.840 on the investigation who doesn't want to be identified, but this actually doesn't read

00:35:27.320 to me like, like an FBI person, an enterprising source who uncovered Crooks's hidden digital

00:35:32.960 footprint.

00:35:33.820 That to me sounds odd.

00:35:35.280 I don't know what to believe.

00:35:36.980 I don't like any of this.

00:35:38.400 I really want to know what's happening.

00:35:41.140 Like who's shooting our presidential candidates, who's shooting our conservative pundits and

00:35:47.660 exactly why, right?

00:35:49.060 I do believe that it was, um, the shooter, Tyler Robinson, who killed Charlie Kirk, but

00:35:54.200 there's too many questions unanswered there too.

00:35:56.960 Um, like what about the trans Tifa connection in that case?

00:36:00.740 What about all those trans accounts who were like something big is going to be happening

00:36:04.680 on September 10th.

00:36:05.600 And then when Charlie was killed, retweeting their old warnings saying, I told you, and there

00:36:10.540 were multiple of them predicting this would happen.

00:36:13.060 Some of whom appear to have had some link to Tyler Robinson's boyfriend, the trans

00:36:17.160 furry.

00:36:17.700 Where's that update?

00:36:19.020 You know, like no one's been charged.

00:36:21.380 So if we're not going to be charging them by this point, you'd be able to.

00:36:25.760 Yeah.

00:36:26.180 If I could just interject quickly, sorry.

00:36:27.620 Because I think that's the key point.

00:36:29.240 At least in that case, the FBI has the excuse, which is actually a plausible and valid one.

00:36:33.740 Look, there's an ongoing criminal trial.

00:36:35.440 There's an ongoing criminal investigation.

00:36:36.720 We can't just be disclosing the results of our investigations to the public because that

00:36:40.620 might jeopardize the case that we have against him or other people whom we're investigating.

00:36:44.680 I think most people understand that in general, in a case of this magnitude, I still think

00:36:48.840 we should have more answers, but at least they have that excuse there.

00:36:51.600 They don't have that excuse in the case of Thomas Crooks.

00:36:53.740 They themselves say there's no ongoing investigation.

00:36:55.900 They know that he acted alone.

00:36:57.740 That's what's so bizarre.

00:36:59.000 Like, I agree with you.

00:37:00.120 There's a lot of unanswered questions in the case of Tyler Robinson.

00:37:02.140 Even if you believe, as I think I do, that he was probably the person, at least one of

00:37:06.280 the people involved in the shooting, maybe the only one.

00:37:08.500 There's a lot of unanswered questions.

00:37:09.780 At least they have that excuse.

00:37:10.980 What's their excuse here?

00:37:13.420 Well, here's what I can say.

00:37:15.660 If the FBI is not giving us the full scoop on the Thomas Crooks case, and for that matter,

00:37:22.500 on the Charlie Kirk case, it's not Kash Patel's decision.

00:37:27.120 There's no way this is Kash's doing.

00:37:30.720 That would have to come on high.

00:37:32.900 That would have to come from somebody higher or-

00:37:35.660 There's only two people higher.

00:37:38.260 Pam Bondi.

00:37:38.940 Pam Bondi and Donald Trump himself.

00:37:40.280 And Donald Trump.

00:37:41.700 And I don't know.

00:37:42.480 It could be a cross-agency thing, too.

00:37:44.180 Maybe there's something the CIA knows, you know, and there's been something, some sort

00:37:47.280 of plea.

00:37:48.120 But I don't believe for one second that Kash Patel knows all, and he's just decided not

00:37:51.940 to tell us because he doesn't think we're smart enough or sophisticated enough to handle

00:37:56.440 the info.

00:37:57.000 I believe if he's not telling us the truth, it's on orders from somebody who actually

00:38:00.840 does control what he says.

00:38:02.620 I mean, and as you point out, there is a short list.

00:38:05.300 And I also believe Pam Bondi wouldn't make that call, right?

00:38:08.020 Like, this would have to come from Trump, would it not?

00:38:10.780 Like, it would have to.

00:38:14.120 Let me just say one thing, and this is, you know, I don't know Kash Patel well.

00:38:17.720 I know Dan Bongino a little.

00:38:18.880 I do have a positive impression of the integrity of each.

00:38:22.020 I supported their nominations to those positions.

00:38:25.260 And I'm not saying I've even changed my view on that.

00:38:27.500 But what I do, what I have seen many times is that when you're on the outside of government

00:38:31.960 power or government institutions, and then suddenly you're on the inside, not just on

00:38:36.780 the inside, but running them, there can be this kind of institutional capture that happens

00:38:41.640 even for the most well-intentioned and honest person, where suddenly you're surrounded by

00:38:46.740 all these people on whom you depend to do your job.

00:38:48.640 You can't just fire everybody and bring everybody in new who's never worked at the FBI before.

00:38:51.940 You have to have an institutional memory of how the agency works.

00:38:57.100 And then suddenly the advisor, you know, it's very similar to how the Epstein files, you

00:39:00.720 know, they were banging on the table.

00:39:01.680 Epstein didn't kill himself.

00:39:02.880 And there's an Epstein list and there's blackmail.

00:39:05.080 And then suddenly four months in office, they go on Fox News and they're like, yeah, none

00:39:07.960 of that's true.

00:39:08.480 Just trust us.

00:39:09.160 None of that's true.

00:39:09.740 It's very odd.

00:39:10.300 Like, that seems like a radical transformation in a very short period of time.

00:39:13.520 And I think that can happen.

00:39:15.720 You know, people get into the office and then they're suddenly listening to people who have

00:39:19.180 been at the FBI for a long time, being told the FBI's, you know, institutional trust depends

00:39:24.660 upon doing things this way.

00:39:26.280 And then suddenly they're doing things that aren't really aligned with how they said they

00:39:31.380 would do them previously.

00:39:32.540 And it's not really because they're dishonest.

00:39:34.200 It's like they're captured or commandeered.

00:39:37.020 Well, it could also very much be, right, that they got into office and I'm sure both of

00:39:43.160 them would have been very interested in the Thomas Crooks case.

00:39:46.700 You know, the guy who almost took out Donald Trump.

00:39:48.920 I'm sure they both would have been very anxious to take a look at that file and the UFO file.

00:39:54.000 Obviously, that's the first place anybody would go.

00:39:57.660 And it is it is also possible that they did see this guy's name, you know, who's Tucker's

00:40:03.480 talking about this, Willie Tepez, that there was a big file on it, that he'd been tracked

00:40:07.580 down, that there was absolutely nothing to support a real connection, you know, anything

00:40:12.260 more fleeting than what Tucker found between him and Crooks, that he'd been interviewed.

00:40:17.220 Like, it is possible that they did all of this.

00:40:19.800 And that's what Cash Patel is telegraphing in his statement.

00:40:25.400 And, you know, kind of letting us know just because you hear it on a podcast doesn't mean

00:40:29.980 it's this international conspiracy where somebody was controlling the shooter. 0.83

00:40:33.940 Maybe it was just the shooter who is a nut.

00:40:38.300 But I totally agree with you, except that would be a good answer if Tucker and Miranda

00:40:43.660 Devine had just gone on and I kind of muse with speculation about potential conspiracy

00:40:48.960 theories.

00:40:49.540 You don't expect the FBI to go jump and debunk in great detail every single conspiracy theory

00:40:54.460 that someone might create about the FBI or an investigation.

00:40:57.320 Right.

00:40:57.480 Neither of them did that, though.

00:40:58.680 This was hard for reporting.

00:41:00.140 These were documents that you can look at and see.

00:41:04.440 And just as one example, I go back to it.

00:41:06.020 You know, the question of were we being told the truth that the Iranian government was behind

00:41:10.700 it?

00:41:11.040 Or did the FBI have pre-knowledge of Thomas Crooks, given how, you know, loud and explicit

00:41:17.920 his violent threats were?

00:41:19.240 These are questions that can and should be answered.

00:41:21.960 And if it's true that none of these theories are true, I think they should come forth and say

00:41:26.240 them, especially since there are senators demanding this information, too.

00:41:28.980 And as you said, they cut off cooperation with them.

00:41:32.020 You know, it's hard to come up with a reason that that is a valid or or a trustworthy one

00:41:36.820 as to why that would happen.

00:41:38.460 Mm hmm.

00:41:38.820 I mean, I say Trump would have to be calling the shots because he's really the only one

00:41:45.040 with any power over them.

00:41:46.320 You know, yes, Pam Bondi, but she's not going to tell them not to report on the Butler case

00:41:51.580 or for that matter, the Kirk case.

00:41:53.780 Well, maybe the Kirk case, but not the Butler case without Trump's OK or without a reason

00:41:57.000 from on high.

00:41:57.580 But my team just reminded me that Laura Trump offered some insights on Trump and Butler

00:42:04.800 not long ago.

00:42:06.100 This was an interview she gave to Benny Johnson in early November, and she said, Trump doesn't

00:42:13.280 want to think or know any more about it.

00:42:15.660 He boxes it away so he can focus on taking this country back.

00:42:19.180 You know what?

00:42:19.560 That actually makes a lot of sense.

00:42:21.400 She also said the following Crooks's motivation for the assassination attempt remains unknown.

00:42:25.820 She said no one in her family has been briefed about what happened or what investigators

00:42:30.300 think could have triggered it.

00:42:31.820 None of us have been briefed, quote unquote.

00:42:35.060 And then, of course, her husband wrote this book saying he's got questions, too.

00:42:38.900 I actually can believe as somebody let me let me tell you something, Glenn, when something

00:42:43.260 horrific happens to me that I think is grossly unfair, unfounded and potentially dangerous,

00:42:48.940 I also will totally ignore it.

00:42:50.900 You know, it's it's like a self-protection mechanism against a dirty, dishonest,

00:42:55.820 group, and it tends to be much better than wallowing in the toxicity.

00:43:00.420 And I'm only talking about like media attacks.

00:43:02.560 Here we're talking about an actual attack on his life in which a man died and two others

00:43:07.300 were shot.

00:43:08.140 So it could very well be that Trump, who is still in the public eye, still appearing in

00:43:11.260 public, still going out there, really doesn't want daily briefings on this guy, Thomas Crooks.

00:43:16.500 But that still leaves on question, if there's more to the story, who's deciding not to tell?

00:43:21.960 I don't know.

00:43:22.860 I wish I did.

00:43:24.100 I'll give you the last word on it.

00:43:26.800 Yeah.

00:43:27.240 I mean, look, what you just described is totally human.

00:43:29.100 We all do that, right?

00:43:29.800 We all avoid wallowing in ideas or thoughts or traumas that are painful.

00:43:35.260 This is basic to how human beings cope with the world.

00:43:38.000 I don't blame Trump if he doesn't want like constant briefings on who put a bullet like

00:43:41.760 a millimeter away from his brain.

00:43:43.140 But as you were saying, it's not just that he has a lack of interest.

00:43:47.860 The only person with the real power, and I agree with you totally, is not Pam Bondi, but 0.62

00:43:51.560 would be Trump to say, keep all this information hidden.

00:43:55.440 And that is different than, oh, I just kind of want to avoid that.

00:43:59.040 But again, even if it is that, we're at least owed that explanation.

00:44:02.040 And I do think now with this reporting, it's going to be almost impossible for Kash Patel or

00:44:06.560 Ant-Bondi or even Trump to simply ignore these questions and not provide some explanation either.

00:44:12.980 Yes, this information is forthcoming or here's why it isn't.

00:44:16.420 OK, here's this is also unsupported, but here's a here's a wacky theory.

00:44:22.080 Wouldn't it make sense that the person behind it is Maduro, given what we're seeing happen

00:44:26.760 with Venezuela right now?

00:44:28.440 Maybe the decision is I'm not going to come out with it.

00:44:31.500 I'm not going to talk about what they did.

00:44:33.360 He's just going to quietly become a target of mine.

00:44:35.820 And life is going to change significantly for him in Venezuela.

00:44:39.820 Just throwing that out there, Glenn.

00:44:43.620 OK, but again, all these things are possible.

00:44:46.720 But I mean, if we're going to go to war or like do a regime change operation in a major

00:44:51.520 country and the reason is, at least in part, that isn't that we should know we have a right

00:44:57.880 to know.

00:44:58.400 Yeah.

00:44:58.820 I mean, yeah, that's if that's factoring into why we're going to go to war or remove yet

00:45:02.940 another government in another foreign country and create huge amounts of instability.

00:45:05.820 And possibly put our troops in the arms way.

00:45:08.000 We ought to know that if that's part of the calculus.

00:45:09.960 Yeah.

00:45:10.800 And zero support for that.

00:45:12.280 I'm just now I'm in Hollywood screenwriter mode at the moment.

00:45:14.800 That is zero.

00:45:15.580 I mean, I'm in the news.

00:45:16.680 So I'm watching what's happening with Venezuela.

00:45:18.480 OK, let's let's keep going.

00:45:20.660 While we're on the subject of Tucker Carlson, he is under just an insane amount of pressure

00:45:28.100 right now over his Fuentes interview, over his podcast.

00:45:33.920 And it's getting like truly crazy.

00:45:36.360 It's really getting crazy.

00:45:37.600 And you pointed out this article in The New York Times, which hit Saturday, entitled J.D.

00:45:43.700 Vance is idling at the edges of American politics.

00:45:47.340 And you wrote this very shortly.

00:45:51.520 You're going to hear this from Democrats in the media.

00:45:53.520 Look, I had disagreements with Trump, but he kept the crazies on the fringes.

00:45:57.820 The really dangerous extremist is J.D.

00:46:00.420 Vance.

00:46:01.240 Trump, by comparison, is a responsible patriot.

00:46:04.440 That's the Bush Cheney trajectory.

00:46:06.140 And you tweeted out this article to me.

00:46:08.040 I think 95 percent of the pressure that's raining down on Tucker right now is as a result

00:46:15.040 of his close friendship with J.D.

00:46:16.520 Vance, because they fear and loathe him in a particularly pointed way.

00:46:25.220 And they think if they can like stank up Tucker enough, they can then transfer it onto J.D.,

00:46:32.460 thus improving their electoral chances in 2028.

00:46:36.120 Your thoughts on it?

00:46:36.800 Um, no question.

00:46:40.120 Democrats hate J.D.

00:46:41.060 Vance, fear J.D.

00:46:42.060 Vance, as I would, too, if I were a partisan Democrat.

00:46:45.480 But I think it's important to note that most of the attacks on Tucker are not coming from

00:46:50.240 liberals or Democrats.

00:46:51.540 They are coming from who also hate J.D.

00:46:54.960 Yeah, the neocon right.

00:46:56.640 Exactly.

00:46:58.080 Exactly.

00:46:58.880 And that I mean, if it were just the liberals and Democrats, it wouldn't matter.

00:47:03.140 Tucker wouldn't even bat an eye.

00:47:04.220 You know, it's when it comes from your own movement inside your own faction and your own

00:47:08.460 party when it really becomes something quite notable and difficult to navigate.

00:47:13.580 And here's the thing, you know, when Tucker was on Fox and had the highest rated show

00:47:21.620 on Fox up until the day that he was fired.

00:47:23.680 I don't think I ever heard a prominent conservative criticize Tucker, probably not because they didn't disagree with him.

00:47:31.120 I'm sure they did.

00:47:32.160 But because he was so popular that nobody would.

00:47:35.120 In fact, when Tucker was fired, I think people have forgotten this.

00:47:38.000 There were a bunch of members of the Senate, Republicans in the Senate, who ran to Politico

00:47:41.380 and said how happy they were that Tucker was gone because now they could more easily fund

00:47:45.440 the war in Ukraine, which Tucker was a major voice in opposing.

00:47:49.800 And they all did it, though, anonymously.

00:47:52.160 These are members of the Senate who wanted to criticize Tucker and say how happy they were

00:47:55.200 gone, but only did so anonymously.

00:47:56.880 So that shows his power within the conservative movement.

00:48:00.280 The only thing that has changed is that since October 7th, like a lot of people, he's begun

00:48:04.740 to focus on the relationship of the United States and Israel, questioning why we give

00:48:08.640 them so much money, why we pay for their wars, why we deploy our military to protect Israel 0.85

00:48:12.320 in their wars, why are politicians constantly going there, why we're introducing censorship

00:48:16.280 regimes and laws inside the United States to protect this foreign country.

00:48:20.460 That's the only thing that's different between the Tucker of now and the Tucker of then.

00:48:24.940 And so this concern and intense campaign to destroy Tucker, and I agree absolutely by proxy

00:48:31.440 to try and either get J.D. Vance to renounce Tucker or present him with a choice, renounce

00:48:36.000 Tucker or be destroyed with him, is all about demanding that J.D. Vance embrace the neocon

00:48:42.540 ideology in general and their love and support and loyalty to Israel in particular, because

00:48:47.700 there's no other way to isolate or understand these attacks on Tucker except by reference to

00:48:53.220 that.

00:48:53.980 Now, you are as good a witness as I could find on this issue.

00:48:58.260 I have explained to—I have many Jewish friends who have questions about Tucker's coverage

00:49:03.260 and whether he's sort of turned into an anti-Semite, and I tell them all, absolutely not.

00:49:08.540 I know Tucker very well, and he is not an anti-Semite, and he is not pro-Israel.

00:49:13.540 He's not a big fan of Israel, and he's definitely not a fan of Netanyahu.

00:49:16.700 But some of them say, well, I think it's beyond that.

00:49:20.180 And I ask them all the same thing, Glenn.

00:49:21.980 If you go back pre-10-7, do you remember Tucker being a leading Israel critic?

00:49:28.560 Like, I remember you being an Israel critic.

00:49:31.160 You're not anti-Semitic, but that was an issue that you definitely talked a lot about.

00:49:36.040 Did Tucker?

00:49:36.980 No, he didn't.

00:49:38.080 Tucker was—

00:49:39.260 I don't know if he likes the word isolationist or not, but he was definitely sort of becoming

00:49:42.900 the face of the isolationist right.

00:49:44.960 And he had interviews.

00:49:46.180 I remember the one he did with Viktor Orban in Hungary, and they talked all about it.

00:49:49.400 And then he was constantly saying, like, why would our kids have to go and fight this

00:49:53.400 battle?

00:49:53.720 Why are we being so bellicose about this particular issue?

00:49:56.060 He's very hot against the Ukraine thing.

00:49:57.680 He didn't want us to get dragged into that.

00:49:59.280 That was long before 10-7.

00:50:01.280 And then when 10-7 happened, he was like, I don't want to be involved in that one either.

00:50:06.040 And that happened to be a very close ally that we felt was, like, getting us closer and

00:50:09.960 closer to conflict, and then, indeed, actually in conflict with Iran, which Tucker was against

00:50:15.400 openly.

00:50:15.800 Like, if Tucker really just had this thing where, like, he can't stand Jews or he's long

00:50:21.320 hated Israel, we would know, Glenn.

00:50:24.280 He would have been out there saying this stuff before 10-7.

00:50:27.500 The fact that it happened after that shows you it really is about Israel for him and

00:50:32.120 dovetails perfectly with his more isolationist worldview and what he wants for America First.

00:50:37.480 You know, Megan, I am Jewish.

00:50:42.180 My whole family's Jewish.

00:50:43.220 I grew up Jewish.

00:50:44.020 I'm steeped in Jewish culture and always have been my entire life.

00:50:48.640 And, you know, Tucker and I have a very close friendship.

00:50:51.980 I mean, we used to hate each other.

00:50:53.280 And then our politics started aligning.

00:50:55.000 And then we got to know each other as people.

00:50:56.960 And, you know, I consider him a very close friend.

00:50:58.780 And I'm not here as a witness to say, oh, I'm Jewish and he's not an anti-Semite.

00:51:03.200 But what I am here to say is that, for me, the animating experience in Tucker's life in

00:51:09.420 terms of his politics and journalism was the fact that he feels like he failed in his

00:51:14.200 obligations and was betrayed when he constantly went on television and advocated for the war

00:51:19.480 in Iraq and for broader neoconservative war-making policy that he believed is so destructive

00:51:24.320 in the United States.

00:51:24.960 He believed he helped spread lies about it.

00:51:26.600 It led to the deaths of many people.

00:51:29.280 And he feels determined never to make that mistake again, to kind of repent for the policies

00:51:34.100 that he advocated that he believed were so destructive by sharing with everybody why

00:51:38.620 he came to believe that they are so destructive.

00:51:41.260 Now, I used to kind of needle Tucker about the fact that, oh, look, you go on Fox every

00:51:47.280 night and you talk about how wrong it is that the United States spends billions of dollars

00:51:52.680 to send to Ukraine.

00:51:54.200 And I totally agreed with that.

00:51:55.240 I was on his show all the time talking about that.

00:51:57.240 But we do the same to Israel, yet you never mentioned that.

00:51:59.880 You never once mentioned Israel.

00:52:01.220 Why is that?

00:52:01.700 And he would just sort of say, like, oh, that's not, I don't think it's as important.

00:52:04.060 We don't say.

00:52:04.660 So he was actively moving away from that.

00:52:07.440 Hold that thought.

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00:55:34.600 Back with me now, Glenn Greenwald.

00:55:37.200 So we were in the midst of discussing J.D. Vance, Tucker Carlson, and the attempt to take them both out, one via the other,

00:55:46.500 or they'd settle for just getting rid of Tucker or just rid of J.D.

00:55:49.500 But if they can do it all in one fell swoop, so much the better, Glenn.

00:55:54.180 Yeah, you know, what's so interesting, Megyn, and we were talking about Tucker and how he never talked about Israel until October 7th,

00:55:59.380 kind of a weird anti-Semitic obsessive, somebody who never talked about Israel until it was basically required when it was front and center in our politics.

00:56:07.660 And I've joked with him many times that whenever he does talk about Israel, he constantly, even in private, will say,

00:56:13.440 I have nothing against Israel.

00:56:15.020 I visited Israel many times.

00:56:16.460 I have a lot of friends who love Israel, who are Jewish.

00:56:18.440 I mean, he's worked around and with Jews.

00:56:20.320 He's had friends who are Jews his whole life.

00:56:22.340 What's going on here is that the tactic that every conservative I know abhorred when it was used by liberals in the left for so many years, 0.89

00:56:30.940 namely screaming racist and bigot or homophobe or transphobe or misogynist or whatever,

00:56:38.120 as a way of destroying somebody's reputation who disagrees with you and shutting down debate is exactly the tactic that is used when it comes to what ought to be our very rational and open conversation about our foreign policy with any country in the world, including this one, Israel. 0.94

00:56:52.940 But instead, it's always supplanted with screaming anti-Semite and bigot at people and demanding they be destroyed and de-platformed and you have to disassociate yourself with them as though they're racist.

00:57:05.000 I thought that's what the conservative movement was against.

00:57:07.760 And yet you see these neocons within the conservative movement doing it.

00:57:10.600 And now they're saying, oh, no, no, no one's asking for Tucker to be canceled.

00:57:14.160 It's like, OK, you're not asking for him to be canceled because he cannot be OK.

00:57:17.640 He cannot be.

00:57:18.660 He's independent and he's going to be out there on these podcast feeds, whether you like it or not.

00:57:23.940 His subscriber numbers have only gone up, reports The New York Times, since the whole Fuentes controversy.

00:57:30.500 So this isn't hurting him as badly as they'd like it to be.

00:57:34.680 But they do want him kicked out of polite circles.

00:57:38.780 They do want him delegitimized.

00:57:42.120 That's the new thing, Glenn, right?

00:57:43.800 Like, that's why there's all this pressure on me and others to, like, say he's terrible or not platform him or, you know, join on board as one of his bullies or will bully you, too.

00:57:56.180 The answer is no.

00:57:57.360 I don't care what you do.

00:57:58.320 I don't care what kind of non-controversies you try to blow into something that's a death knell to me in my career.

00:58:03.780 It's not going to happen.

00:58:04.800 And they're starting to realize that because those of us who are independent are just going to keep being independent and plugging in our microphones and people will have access to us whether they like it or not.

00:58:16.360 So it's no defense to say we're not trying to have him canceled.

00:58:19.700 We're not anti-free speech.

00:58:21.280 Yes, they are.

00:58:22.020 They're trying to make him untouchable.

00:58:26.880 And, Megan, you're the best proof of that.

00:58:30.220 And I don't mean to hold you up as the example, but, you know, I've talked about foreign policy with you many times, including Israel, including Israel-adjacent issues.

00:58:39.320 And as you said, I'm a longtime critic of Israel.

00:58:41.440 And you and I see most of those issues differently.

00:58:43.820 You've been a longtime supporter of Israel.

00:58:45.540 You still are.

00:58:46.940 You oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes find yourself on the side of the pro-Israel faction when it comes to these debates.

00:58:55.180 You've started questioning a little bit more.

00:58:56.500 But in general, that is where you're situated.

00:58:58.940 So then why is it that you're now grouped in as one of their enemies who they're trying to destroy?

00:59:03.860 They can say all they want.

00:59:04.960 They don't want Tucker canceled.

00:59:05.960 But the only reason they're angry at you is because you refuse to disassociate yourself with Tucker and to renounce Tucker and to ban Tucker from your circle or Marjorie Taylor Greene or Candace Owens or anyone else.

00:59:15.780 That's the only reason you've become in their crosshairs.

00:59:19.260 And I always want to remind people, if you haven't seen this, I'm sure you have, but go back and watch it.

00:59:23.220 Just two weeks before Charlie Kirk was killed, he was on your show.

00:59:26.520 And this is what Charlie Kirk was saying.

00:59:27.980 And you were, too.

00:59:28.880 Like, I've become the enemy.

00:59:30.720 I'm getting denounced as an anti-Semite, even though I always have been pro-Israel and I still am, said Charlie Kirk.

00:59:38.060 The reason they're angry at me is because I allow Tucker to speak.

00:59:42.260 Like, how are you going to be in conservative media?

00:59:44.300 How are you going to be in conservative politics and disassociate yourself with everybody who has questions about the U.S. relationship with Israel or criticize Israel when, especially for Charlie, who represented young people, but conservatives in general, polls show there's a huge opening now.

00:59:59.740 So, where conservatives are opposed to Israel or questioning the U.S., you cannot cut off everybody who has that view or you'll only be talking to Mark Levin and Ben Shapiro every day.

01:00:09.800 Nor do I want to.

01:00:11.300 Nor do I want to.

01:00:12.280 Right, right.

01:00:12.520 While I don't really share that worldview, as you know, as you pointed out, like, I have different feelings about Israel.

01:00:17.120 And in general, I'm very supportive of it.

01:00:18.720 And I do see it as an important ally.

01:00:20.480 And I realize a lot of people disagree with me on this.

01:00:22.340 But I am not dismissive of or somebody who doesn't want to make room in conservative circles for the debate about this topic.

01:00:31.280 I think it's actually a really important debate, you know, especially given everything that's happened over the past couple of years.

01:00:36.940 Why can't there be room in the conservative party for people to disagree on this and to make the case that, no, we are too close with Israel and it's dangerous for us and our kids? 0.99

01:00:46.240 That is a totally legitimate worldview.

01:00:48.380 You may totally disagree with it.

01:00:49.680 And that's great.

01:00:50.340 You know, I'm kind of more on that side, right?

01:00:53.500 But I am listening.

01:00:55.060 It's not true that I haven't had any doubts about Israel.

01:00:57.980 But I'm allowed to have my doubts.

01:00:59.880 It's just like, it's been so crazy.

01:01:01.620 You know, crazy Mark Levin.

01:01:03.020 He was out there.

01:01:04.080 I can't find it.

01:01:04.960 I put it on my phone, but now I can't find it.

01:01:06.600 But he was literally out there, Glenn.

01:01:08.700 Tucker ran this soundbite on his show, calling me, among others, calling me an anti-Semite, a Nazi, 1.00

01:01:18.500 a neo-Nazi, and saying, I want Jews killed. 0.98

01:01:25.080 I really, like, I don't really respond to him. 1.00

01:01:26.840 He's really, truly, he's gone crazy.

01:01:28.920 But what I really wanted to say, if I were going to engage with Mark Levin, was, please list all of my anti-Israel comments.

01:01:37.700 But I'll wait.

01:01:39.780 Like, please list them all.

01:01:41.540 Like, honestly, there was this thing that happened online this weekend, and Mehdi Hassan, who's a very, very pointed Israel critic,

01:01:48.420 was trying to compare himself to me.

01:01:50.840 And I was like, no, no, no, no, there's no comparison between the two of us.

01:01:54.040 One is criticizing Israel every day, like, including 10-8.

01:02:00.240 And one has been a staunch defender of Israel, not to mention American Jews.

01:02:05.100 Like, I will wait for all of my anti-Israel comments.

01:02:09.160 And if you want to switch to anti-Jew comments, anti-Jewish, Jewish Americans, you won't find a single one.

01:02:16.880 With Israel, you're going to find two. 0.99

01:02:18.700 Me saying, maybe it's time to wrap it up.

01:02:21.240 And they're losing the support of young Americans, including conservatives now.

01:02:25.600 That's literally it, Glenn.

01:02:28.100 It's the platforming of and refusal to denounce Tucker and, to another extent, Candace.

01:02:34.020 It's insane.

01:02:35.540 It's truly insane.

01:02:36.540 And this is fracturing the conservative movement in two in a way that is going to play out at the presidential level, too.

01:02:44.460 When it comes to J.D. Vance, I don't know what Marco Rubio's position will be.

01:02:48.100 He's been very, very pro-Israel.

01:02:49.620 He sounds much more like America First now.

01:02:51.500 You know, so I am sure most American Jewish people who are pro-neocon, like, or more neocony, would prefer Marco Rubio to J.D. Vance or somebody else entirely who's totally neocony, like Ted Cruz. 0.58

01:03:05.580 But this is about to play out right now.

01:03:07.360 It's at the podcaster level, but it's about to explode into the actual principal level because, you know, within the next year, we're going to be looking for a 2028 talk more than midterms.

01:03:17.060 Well, you have politicians like Ted Cruz clearly positioning themselves for 2028 by just going all in on anybody who's supported Israel as an anti-Semite.

01:03:26.800 We have to remove them from the political movement.

01:03:28.940 You know, it's so interesting, Megan.

01:03:29.880 I feel like this extreme cognitive dissonance because you and I have debated these issues before.

01:03:35.440 You know, we debated whether or not people should be deported who are students in the United States who protested Israel.

01:03:40.800 And you were saying, get them out of here.

01:03:42.420 They're harassing.

01:03:43.140 Get out.

01:03:43.500 And I have the opposite view and we argued about it.

01:03:46.780 And to this day, like whenever I say anything good about you or I go on your show or I promote something of yours, you know, people who are in my audience say, why would you feel good about Megyn Kelly?

01:03:55.760 She's a Zionist. 0.92

01:03:56.880 She's an Israel supporter.

01:03:59.080 And Candace and I had a very public battle about whether these kids on college campuses who are pulling down the hostage posters should have consequences in terms of their hiring, too. 0.99

01:04:09.320 She was like, they're, you know, they're moronic college kids. 0.98

01:04:11.740 Why should we hold? And I was much more like, oh, no, you know, there are people hurting and in captivity right now. 0.99

01:04:17.700 You pull down their hostage posters.

01:04:19.960 You're my enemy.

01:04:20.920 Like there's been such a long history of it.

01:04:22.900 It's whatever.

01:04:24.040 I don't care.

01:04:24.540 I don't need to defend myself on these controversies.

01:04:26.880 But it's panic.

01:04:28.540 And I think that's it.

01:04:29.400 I think it's important to realize this panic that is emerging from what is, whether you like it or not, a very significant sea change in conservative opinion.

01:04:38.860 Netanyahu came to the United States, wrote off the left.

01:04:41.580 You know, Israel has always been bipartisan.

01:04:43.180 There's still a lot of very hardcore Israel defenders and AIPAC influence within the Democratic Party, too.

01:04:48.180 But for the most part, they understood the left was headed toward this position of abandoning Israel.

01:04:52.680 They assume that the right wing and conservatives would always be their dependable kind of tools.

01:04:58.580 And you look at public opinion and you see not just anecdotally this immense space opening where conservative leaders like Tucker and Candace, with two of the biggest podcasts in the world, are constantly questioning Israel and criticizing Israel.

01:05:09.940 But also polls show that young conservatives in particular are starting to wonder, wait, we were told America first, that we have to concentrate on our own country.

01:05:17.880 So why are we sending billions over there?

01:05:19.520 Why are politicians constantly focused?

01:05:21.000 That is, of course, a question that is going to arise.

01:05:23.740 And you can try and deal with it in two ways.

01:05:25.580 You can try and scream racist and bigot at everybody in the hope that they're going to fear career destruction if they ask it.

01:05:30.600 Or you can try and engage it like a rational person and have this discussion about what is nothing really, at the end of the day, more than an American foreign policy like anything else.

01:05:39.300 But it's so sacrosanct to them and they feel it slipping away that they're kind of lashing out with this irrationality that's making things worse for them.

01:05:49.180 I heard from many of this.

01:05:52.520 These aren't like Jewish friends, but Jewish pundits who I know and like who come on the show or whatever.

01:05:57.020 When this first happened, after I aired that discussion that Charlie and I had, I re-aired after he died because the question of how, where did Charlie stand on Israel came up and I re-aired a portion of it.

01:06:09.320 And what these people said to me is, everyone's terrified you're going to start a green with Tucker.

01:06:16.040 Like you have been such an ally and they're worried that they're losing you.

01:06:19.720 And Glenn, all I could say was, okay, that only makes me want to listen to Tucker more.

01:06:27.120 That only, like, I don't owe anybody my never-ending support.

01:06:33.140 I will be open-minded to the facts as they develop.

01:06:36.740 A lot has happened with Israel since 10-7-23.

01:06:40.500 A lot.

01:06:41.320 And a lot of people's feelings about Israel have changed.

01:06:45.620 And I am entitled to have a change of opinion.

01:06:48.100 And, by the way, my life and my opinions don't rise or fall based on what Tucker Carlson says.

01:06:54.540 I love the guy, but he's not my main source of news.

01:06:57.440 You know, I'm all over the news.

01:06:58.980 I read every single paper.

01:07:00.420 I'm online every day.

01:07:01.620 I read the right and the left.

01:07:03.480 And Israel's been very hard to find true facts, right, because we do get manipulated by propaganda.

01:07:08.420 But they're out there.

01:07:09.660 Anyway, it's insane how it's like, but you're not allowed.

01:07:13.300 Since you're an Israel supporter, you're not allowed to drift.

01:07:16.340 Well, yes, I am.

01:07:18.060 I am.

01:07:18.700 And I actually want to check myself in saying to you, I've been very supportive and I still am supportive just to make sure, like, am I saying that to appease somebody?

01:07:27.680 I don't want to be that.

01:07:28.540 I don't want to do that.

01:07:29.600 I want to just go where the facts lead me.

01:07:31.760 And if Israel was good two years ago but behaved very badly for the last two years and has changed my opinion of them, I'm entitled to that opinion. 1.00

01:07:39.000 It doesn't change my opinion of American Jews at all, at all, right?

01:07:45.260 Like, that's such an unfair leap to make when it comes to you, when it comes to Tucker, when it comes to any of us.

01:07:50.280 And that's where we really have to draw the line.

01:07:52.460 It's so manipulative.

01:07:55.080 I mean, obviously, there are a lot of Jews.

01:07:56.640 Here I am.

01:07:57.180 But I'm far from alone or even a trivial number who are more critical of Israel and Zionism than even Tucker, you know, in his latest expression of his views.

01:08:08.000 To conflate Israel and Jews is, I don't want to raise this, but it is kind of anti-Semitic, like, to assume that every Jew has loyalty to Israel.

01:08:16.580 Like, we don't.

01:08:17.420 I was born in the United States.

01:08:19.040 I'm a citizen of only one country.

01:08:21.080 I see Israel as a foreign country the way a lot of Jews do. 1.00

01:08:24.020 And there are a lot of people who are not Jewish who are fervently in favor of Israel.

01:08:27.800 So to even make that conflation is so unfair.

01:08:30.520 And I do think that it's very much the left-wing tactic.

01:08:34.020 Like, people will say, oh, no, you can criticize Israel and still not be an anti-Semite.

01:08:38.960 I don't know of a single person in public life with any kind of platform who has ever vocally criticized Israel who hasn't stood accused of anti-Semitism.

01:08:45.080 You're seeing that now?

01:08:45.860 It starts immediately.

01:08:46.780 It's automatic.

01:08:47.300 It starts immediately.

01:08:48.040 It's automatic. 0.75

01:08:48.820 And can I tell you, so I hate, I really do hate the, my best friend is Jewish, but, like, my best friend actually is Jewish. 0.97

01:08:55.220 And she's saying, like, I can't believe this is happening.

01:08:59.020 Like, I can't believe that this is being done to you.

01:09:01.720 And even she is like, God, I really wish people would stop, right?

01:09:04.320 Because I think there are a lot of normal Jewish Americans who are like, could people stop doing that?

01:09:09.940 Because that doesn't speak for us.

01:09:11.540 Like, you're kind of lumping us all in.

01:09:14.620 And people are sort of trying to lump us in.

01:09:16.140 Like, the American Jewish community stands against Tucker.

01:09:18.760 Or, like, wants these conversations shut down in some way.

01:09:21.680 And, like, I think there are mostly normal Jewish Americans that are like, you can criticize Israel. 0.78

01:09:27.460 We don't care.

01:09:28.420 We may disagree.

01:09:29.620 We'll debate you happily.

01:09:31.060 But we don't care.

01:09:31.840 So it's just spun.

01:09:33.300 Anyway, I want to move on to the presidential politics of it because it's getting very interesting.

01:09:36.860 So J.D. Vance is definitely going to come under withering scrutiny, yes, for his friendship with Tucker.

01:09:41.200 And already I mentioned the New York Times piece that you tweeted out that is quite interesting by this nutcase Jamal Bowie, who came out and wrote this long piece about J.D., which is just crazy.

01:09:53.200 Here's an excerpt from it.

01:09:55.500 Again, the title is J.D. Vance's Idling at the Edges of American Politics.

01:10:00.720 He doesn't mean edgy in a nice way.

01:10:03.200 He means fringy.

01:10:04.920 Enter J.D. Vance, who, as my colleague Ezra Klein observed this week in an interview with my friend John Gantz, is functionally Groyper adjacent.

01:10:14.460 The Groypers are Nick Fuentes' followers. 0.98

01:10:16.600 As the controversy around Fuentes, Carlson, and Heritage grew into a firestorm, Vance stayed quiet.

01:10:23.740 At most, he decried the infighting.

01:10:26.360 Fuentes considers the vice president's triangulation a victory of sorts.

01:10:30.580 It is a sign, in other words, that Vance fears the political consequences of an open disavowal, so much so that he won't act on the pleas of some of his closest associates to challenge the Groypers.

01:10:41.620 But while the vice president won't say where he stands, it is not hard to sense where his sympathies lie.

01:10:47.540 This week, Vance sat for an interview with Sean Hannity of Fox News.

01:10:50.600 Here he is discussing the housing crisis, quoting Vance.

01:10:54.240 A lot of people, this is a quote, quote, a lot of people, a lot of young people, are saying housing is way too expensive.

01:11:00.020 Why is that?

01:11:00.960 Because we flooded the country with 30 million illegal immigrants who were taking houses that ought by right go to American citizens, end quote. 1.00

01:11:06.940 Back to Jamel Bowie.

01:11:08.820 Here's my question for you.

01:11:10.120 You can parse all the rhetoric you'd like, but what is the actual practical difference between Vance's call for the removal and potential expropriation of illegal immigrants, defined in terms of ethnic and racial difference, and Fuentes' vision of a white ethno-state in what is now the United States?

01:11:27.500 They look about the same to me.

01:11:30.020 So here it is.

01:11:31.720 You want the illegals who came in under Biden out? 0.91

01:11:34.140 You are a Nick Fuentes, white supremacist, neo-Nazi gruyper, and that's mana from heaven as far as the New York Times sees J.D. Vance's presidential prospects. 0.78

01:11:47.760 You know, so much of this is out of ignorance. 0.84

01:11:51.720 Nick Fuentes absolutely despises J.D. Vance, and one of the reasons why is that he's married to a woman who's Indian and has Indian children, half Indian descent.

01:12:01.520 Kind of a weird white nationalist, isn't it?

01:12:03.280 That he would rather support Gavin Newsom because he married a white woman and has white kids than J.D. Vance because he married an Indian woman, an Indian American, and has a son named Vivek.

01:12:15.060 Is it an odd form of white nationalism, which is what they want to accuse J.D. Vance of, to decide that the person with whom you're going to build your entire life, who you're going to live next to side by side, with whom you're going to have your children, is not actually white, but of Indian descent, of Indian American, and your own children, as you knew what happened, and love them more than anything, are half Indian.

01:12:39.240 That's a very odd white nationalist, isn't it?

01:12:42.100 It's so weird. 0.61

01:12:42.740 He's doing it all wrong. 0.56

01:12:43.560 I think, yeah, that's a very poor choice that he made for a white nationalist.

01:12:48.380 But the thing is, I think that this is one of the things that people have to realize, and I know you saw this article in Axios about Ezra Klein, who Jamal Bowie referenced, and it's basically about how even for an opinion columnist, he's kind of blurring the line between being an opinion columnist for The New York Times and being an activist and organizer for the Democratic Party.

01:13:09.540 A lot of people in media, in these newspapers, The New York Times, The Washington Post, all these networks, have this view that it is their primary mission not to do journalism, but to organize for and win elections for the Democratic Party.

01:13:23.740 And one of the ways you do that, there's no real benefit in demonizing Trump anymore is Hitler.

01:13:27.800 He already ran twice.

01:13:28.680 He's not running again.

01:13:29.800 The person that they're looking at next is J.D. Vance.

01:13:33.020 It's just like there's no more reason to say Dick Cheney and George Bush are Hitler the way they used to because they're out of office.

01:13:38.360 In the case of Cheney, he's dead.

01:13:39.400 They're not a threat anymore.

01:13:40.200 So they moved to Trump.

01:13:41.680 Trump was Hitler. 0.99

01:13:42.420 Trump was worse than Hitler. 0.99

01:13:43.560 Now Trump's going out.

01:13:45.040 And so now it's just the next time is to do it is J.D. Vance.

01:13:47.680 And that's what this column is all about is you might have thought Trump was bad, but Trump really, he wasn't a racist at the end of the day, the way J.D. Vance is.

01:13:55.040 The newest iteration of Republican is always the real Hitler. 0.63

01:13:57.920 Yes. And then you have, speaking of potential fractions amongst the right wing, you have Senator Ted Cruz, who is definitely pro-Israel and neo-Khani. 0.94

01:14:13.480 There's an article about him in Axios saying he's going to challenge, he's potentially going to challenge J.D. Vance.

01:14:20.500 And we know this from how outspoken he's been about Tucker and, like, he calls Tucker an anti-Semite.

01:14:28.100 It's definitely Tucker and Ted Cruz are not fans of one another.

01:14:31.500 Ted Cruz went on there and within, you know, the first four minutes basically accused Tucker of anti-Semitism.

01:14:36.020 And then it didn't go well, not surprisingly.

01:14:38.880 So they don't like each other.

01:14:39.980 So Axios writes that.

01:14:41.680 And then do we have the moment when Cruz went on Fox?

01:14:43.920 Yes. Cruz went on Fox News today and it was very clear he knew they were going to ask him about the Axios piece, pitching him as, like, the guy who is going to take on J.D. Vance.

01:14:56.000 And he demurred, you know, like, oh, you know, focus on the people of Texas or whatever.

01:15:00.760 But Ted Cruz has run for president many, many times.

01:15:02.920 There's no reason not to believe he will do it again, especially if he thinks the main competition is going to be a J.D.

01:15:11.060 Marco ticket, which he'll be able to spin Marco Rubio as more America first J.D.

01:15:15.600 Vance ish than he is.

01:15:18.800 J.D.

01:15:19.060 Marco is definitely not a neocon anymore.

01:15:20.680 So it does make you wonder what's going to happen when we gear up towards 2028 and whether that dream ticket of J.D.

01:15:28.520 Marco that Trump has talked about is going to have smooth sailing getting the go ahead or whether you're going to have other contenders who say not so fast.

01:15:37.480 We want a primary and we want to be heard.

01:15:40.800 I think it's really worth remembering that in 2016, Trump ran against the Republican establishment.

01:15:46.080 They were all lined behind Jeb Bush and then Marco Rubio and then Ted Cruz at the end of the day.

01:15:50.420 And he wants to stop Trump.

01:15:52.080 And it was Trump's singular kind of charisma and political force that enabled him to win despite being completely opposed in every way by the Republican establishment, which to this day actually continues to hate him, even if they're more muted about it now.

01:16:05.600 But they haven't gone away.

01:16:07.220 And I think Ted Cruz senses that the Republican establishment will be important in 2028.

01:16:11.820 They have immense amounts of money and institutional support.

01:16:13.880 And they're more on his side of this argument.

01:16:16.540 The problem, though, Megan, is like one of the things Ted Cruz said in that interview with Tucker, which I to this day can't believe he said.

01:16:22.340 He said, when I ran for Congress, I was determined to wake up every day and be Israel's leading supporter in the Congress.

01:16:29.840 And every single day I've woken up to do exactly that.

01:16:32.800 Now, good luck reconciling that with the America first politics and ideology that this entire new generation of the one before that has sped on in Republican politics for the last 10 to 15 years.

01:16:45.120 I don't think those things are reconcilable.

01:16:46.800 This is a different Republican Party.

01:16:48.740 Post Trump politics is different.

01:16:50.520 And maybe that's his only lane and he's comfortable in it.

01:16:55.180 But I don't think that's going to get someone very far.

01:16:58.160 You know, you know, as well as I do, Ted Cruz is definitely taking a lot of money from Israel backed and Jewish backed donors.

01:17:04.120 So that's yeah, millions.

01:17:05.880 But but, you know, as well as I do, that that used to be a safe thing for a Republican that used to be an unassailable statement, no matter where you were in the party on other issues like uniform backing of Israel was required of you.

01:17:22.700 So it used to be a very safe thing to say.

01:17:24.720 It's only more recent, you know, and because Israel's in a war and this behavior has been controversial and all that that has become even close to controversial.

01:17:31.020 But Ted Cruz is still there.

01:17:32.520 I mean, he's definitely still there.

01:17:33.400 And it is one of those things I'm not suggesting he doesn't believe it.

01:17:36.220 I think he does believe that.

01:17:37.640 But it is one of those things that makes it complicated when you depending on who your donors are, because, you know, they need money to get reelected and they don't want to piss off the donors.

01:17:47.720 And it's like, so is there room to change your opinion or isn't there?

01:17:51.840 I don't know.

01:17:52.860 It really like the people who get you elected with their money do have some control over you.

01:17:57.740 OK, let's keep going there.

01:18:00.260 We began the show by marking on remarking on the breakup between Marjorie Taylor Greene and President Trump.

01:18:05.980 And I have to say, I don't like this at all.

01:18:08.340 Just as we fell in love with MTG, she broke up with Trump.

01:18:11.840 She we did not fall in love with MTG because she started saying anti-Trump things.

01:18:15.480 We just thought she was interesting.

01:18:16.660 But she at the same time was getting interesting to like the ladies of The View and now CNN.

01:18:22.920 And now I'm like, I don't I don't know exactly what's happening here.

01:18:25.780 She and Trump are fighting ugly.

01:18:28.240 He calls her Marjorie Trader Greene now.

01:18:31.360 She's saying that these comments are endangering her life.

01:18:34.360 And she did a thing that no conservative should do. 0.99

01:18:37.600 I mean, truly, just it shouldn't be done.

01:18:39.240 And she went on CNN to rip on Trump slash, you know, not other Republicans, but Trump.

01:18:46.860 Ben Shapiro did it the other day, too, and got all sorts of blowback for it.

01:18:49.680 Like Republicans don't want to see their people on CNN.

01:18:53.120 You know, it's one thing if you're Scott Jennings and you're taking on a table of Democrats fighting for Trump.

01:18:58.120 But it's another to see like you go into the den of the enemy and start bashing your own team. 0.89

01:19:06.860 So and MTG is not dumb.

01:19:09.260 So she did that for a reason.

01:19:10.460 I don't totally understand it yet, but maybe it'll become clear.

01:19:13.060 Here she is on CNN talking about like her new view on like her role.

01:19:20.820 This is on their Sunday show with Dana Bash yesterday, SOT 6.

01:19:24.120 But we have seen these kinds of attacks or criticism from the president at other people.

01:19:32.640 It's not new.

01:19:33.720 And with respect, I haven't heard you speak out about it until it was directed at you.

01:19:39.780 Dana, I think that's fair criticism.

01:19:41.500 And I would like to say humbly, I'm sorry for taking part in the toxic politics.

01:19:50.480 It's it's very bad for our country.

01:19:52.580 So just to put a button on this, you regret the things that you have said and posted in

01:19:58.320 the past, the Facebook post that was taken down of you in 2020 holding a gun alongside

01:20:04.520 the squad, encouraging people to go on the offense against the socialists, liking a tweet

01:20:11.500 of somebody calling for the execution of Nancy Pelosi and former President Obama.

01:20:15.860 Just examples.

01:20:16.560 Well, Dana, as you know, and many people know, I addressed that back in 2021.

01:20:23.300 And of course, I never want to cause any harm or anything bad for anyone.

01:20:29.180 So that that was addressed back then.

01:20:31.800 And OK, and just FYI, Brian Stelter tweets out, Marjorie Taylor Greene did something politicians

01:20:39.920 almost never do.

01:20:40.920 She said she was sorry.

01:20:43.660 Well, it's true.

01:20:44.900 They almost never do it.

01:20:45.880 And Republicans really never do it because we all hate the apology now.

01:20:51.820 We hate it.

01:20:52.920 I hate it over my dead body when I run out there and apologize.

01:20:57.420 But Marjorie is definitely up to something.

01:20:59.700 I just haven't totally figured out what because she is clever.

01:21:02.760 So what do you think is happening here?

01:21:03.800 So I've liked her for a long time.

01:21:08.060 I've had her on my show before.

01:21:09.180 I've talked to her, met her.

01:21:11.860 And the reason I've always liked her is because I agree with everything she believes or says.

01:21:16.180 But it's because I personally believe she's unusually authentic for somebody who's in Congress,

01:21:22.600 by which I mean, like what's so interesting to me about her, Megan, is you go to Washington.

01:21:26.740 Most of these people have like been trained to get to Congress.

01:21:30.020 They like ran for a lower level office, state legislature, worked for members of Congress,

01:21:34.760 like kind of just training their whole lives to get to Congress.

01:21:37.220 She was just a totally normal person, apolitical in the private sector in her district in Georgia,

01:21:42.320 and really got inspired by Trump's America First message and got into politics solely for that reason

01:21:48.360 and ran for Congress.

01:21:49.700 She kind of got there like almost like a Mr. Smith goes to Washington story.

01:21:53.760 And to this day, she tries not to stay in Washington.

01:21:57.500 She goes back to her constituency more than most people in Congress.

01:22:02.960 I'll just quickly say like when Trump started bombing Yemen, one of the things she said that

01:22:07.320 I like so much was she was like, why are we bombing the Houthis?

01:22:10.020 People in my district don't even know what a Houthi is.

01:22:11.900 They never talk about Houthis.

01:22:13.080 They're not a threat to people in my district.

01:22:14.400 Why are we bombing the Houthis?

01:22:16.060 And she's speaking for the people in her district as they think what she tries to remain in contact with.

01:22:20.500 But I think part of what this is, is a genuine kind of reflection on the role she's played.

01:22:26.580 But I don't like the fact I do think we want politicians to like reflect on things they've

01:22:32.920 done in the past, like we talked about Tucker doing and saying, yeah, I really got that wrong.

01:22:35.840 I want to make sure.

01:22:36.660 But you don't go on CNN to do it and get manipulated and exploited by Dana Bash and CNN,

01:22:41.840 because they're not interested in the authenticity of what you're doing.

01:22:44.880 They're just exploiting you for political partisan gain.

01:22:47.400 Oh, absolutely.

01:22:49.080 I mean, they've been running dishonest soundbites of yours truly and many others for weeks now.

01:22:53.620 I mean, you cannot trust them for anything.

01:22:56.540 So I don't know.

01:22:57.880 I mean, the reports are that AOC said that Marjorie asked Trump for like permission or his

01:23:03.440 blessing endorsement to run for Senate in Georgia and that Trump said no and that that's

01:23:08.640 why she's mad. 0.80

01:23:09.300 I asked Marjorie about that when she came on tour with me the other weekend.

01:23:13.160 She denied that.

01:23:14.240 Um, but now there's definitely a rift where she's one of the four Republicans signing

01:23:20.160 on for the release of more Epstein files, which has Trump attacking her.

01:23:24.500 And she's out there saying, you know, the two that he's attacking most are people who are

01:23:29.080 me and Massey are really pushing him on Epstein, asking if that's a coincidence.

01:23:33.000 He's calling her a traitor.

01:23:34.000 Now he withdrew his endorsement of her just as a congresswoman.

01:23:37.540 She's on CNN and the view, you know, I, I'm not sure what's happening here, but I feel

01:23:42.420 like she does know her district and I don't think she's in any danger there.

01:23:45.820 You know, I think they love her.

01:23:47.260 So this is one we just have to continue to watch and see how it plays out.

01:23:51.420 But I have to say, I don't like it.

01:23:53.440 I don't, I think she's great.

01:23:55.780 I really like her a lot.

01:23:56.720 And I, I know Trump could use her support.

01:23:59.520 The Epstein thing has, is dividing Republicans too much and too long.

01:24:04.020 It's like, there was one very good point raised by Speaker Johnson in response to this vote

01:24:08.660 that's going to happen, demanding that the DOJ release its files on Epstein, which, I

01:24:12.860 mean, they did, they did vote and they are going to get, they voted yes.

01:24:16.340 But there's a question about whether they're going to get that vote in the Senate.

01:24:19.580 Well, first they're going to be a vote in the house on whether, you know, the full house

01:24:22.760 supports it and it's going to go to the Senate where it doesn't have majority support

01:24:25.740 as far as we know.

01:24:26.720 And now Trump, then it would go to Trump's desk.

01:24:28.520 And while Trump did some saber ratting last night about how now he supports it, real questions

01:24:33.520 about whether he does.

01:24:34.720 So anyway, my point is simply, I think Speaker Mike Johnson made a good point when he said

01:24:38.220 that the juiciest stuff we just got, it's from Epstein's own files.

01:24:44.300 The Epstein estate just released 30,000 emails from him.

01:24:49.760 That's very good stuff.

01:24:51.380 Why would we believe that whatever's sitting in the DOJ files is juicier?

01:24:55.220 Now that could have victim testimonials, but they're saying they're not going to release

01:24:59.040 anything that would identify a victim.

01:25:01.200 Well, I don't know how valuable it is if you don't release the identity of the victims.

01:25:04.680 How are we supposed to figure out whether they're credible?

01:25:06.980 Then you're back in the Democrat territory last week where they released the Virginia

01:25:10.600 Jufre correspondence.

01:25:13.640 I mean, it was Epstein talking about Virginia's alleged time alone with Trump and the Democrats

01:25:17.720 redacted her name.

01:25:19.320 Meanwhile, the Republicans are like, why would you redact her name?

01:25:21.280 She's already given testimony under oath that she's not a victim of Trump's.

01:25:25.440 She's never slept with Trump.

01:25:27.340 She has nothing on Trump.

01:25:28.920 And by the way, she's outed herself as an Epstein victim. 0.99

01:25:32.260 So there's no reason to protect her identity.

01:25:33.880 So there's this whole shell game happening now.

01:25:36.760 And you tell me whether you think something meaningful will come out, A, that it'll get

01:25:41.760 voted for by the full House, the Senate, and signed into law by Trump demanding that

01:25:46.300 the DOJ release more files, and B, whether there's something in there that's going to

01:25:51.280 be a game changer on Epstein.

01:25:54.360 I think it's mostly a political problem because the way in which the Epstein files became this

01:26:01.280 huge issue in the imagination of Americans was not because the left made it that.

01:26:06.600 It was because people on the right did during the Biden presidency and not like random people

01:26:10.500 on the right.

01:26:10.880 I mean, like J.D. Vance and Donald Trump Jr. and Dan Bongino and Kash Patel and Pam

01:26:15.720 Bondi, they were accusing the Biden administration of concealing predators and a predatory ring

01:26:22.760 because they wanted to protect people who are their allies, like Bill Clinton and Bill

01:26:26.100 Gates.

01:26:26.520 That's what put it into the public discourse.

01:26:29.920 And that's why I think it's become a huge liability politically for the Trump administration

01:26:33.740 when they were the ones saying this has to be released to then suddenly get an office

01:26:37.400 and be like, hey, we checked, there's no, he killed himself, there's no blackmail list,

01:26:41.500 there's no client list, there's none of that.

01:26:43.240 You don't need to see any of this.

01:26:44.560 I think it was that turnaround that became untenable.

01:26:47.580 And I'm not convinced there's anything all that devastating.

01:26:52.120 Obviously, Jeffrey Epstein had some bizarre ability to get people to be extremely close to

01:26:58.300 him personally, notwithstanding his press conviction, notwithstanding his politics.

01:27:02.580 I mean, Noam Chomsky, who's like a personal and political hero of mine, had a very close

01:27:06.980 relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, which makes no sense.

01:27:10.580 But a lot of people, like huge elites, very rich people did.

01:27:13.620 It could be embarrassing for them.

01:27:15.360 I do think the GOJ probably has information about Epstein that might not be in his emails,

01:27:18.820 including maybe his relationship with foreign countries, including Israel.

01:27:21.800 There is reporting on that, that he had, you know, his best friends of the former prime

01:27:24.840 minister, El Barak.

01:27:26.280 So there still are open questions.

01:27:28.020 I just think it's not tenable for the DOJ to conceal those documents.

01:27:31.020 And even if there's not an earthquake in there, given where the demands originally came from.

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01:31:27.700 Here's what I want to know.

01:31:33.880 Why was Katie Couric, why was George Stephanopoulos at Epstein's home in 2010, chumming it up, having

01:31:42.980 dinner with him after, after he pleaded guilty to solicitation of sex with a minor?

01:31:50.900 Which, as I've said countless times, is not a thing. 0.98

01:31:55.320 There's no such thing as a minor prostitute. 1.00

01:31:58.340 That's rape. 1.00

01:31:59.340 That's what that is.

01:32:00.500 But they allowed him to plead guilty to that.

01:32:02.920 It was on the record.

01:32:04.720 And by the way, Katie Couric knows full well that you cannot solicit a minor prostitute. 0.99

01:32:10.220 That's rape. 1.00

01:32:10.920 So does George Stephanopoulos. 0.97

01:32:12.300 He's really big on cross-examining Nancy Mace on how Trump raped, raped, raped E. Jean Carroll, 0.59

01:32:18.480 which is a lie that cost ABC News $16 million.

01:32:21.720 So George Stephanopoulos knows full well the definition of that word.

01:32:25.360 And yet he went anyway.

01:32:26.940 Those two journalists, NBC and ABC respectively, went and sat with Jeffrey Epstein at his home

01:32:34.000 where these alleged crimes occurred for dinner, knowing all of that.

01:32:38.880 And these holier-than-thou media outlets like CNN, The Daily Beast, and so on, where is their

01:32:46.200 outrage about that?

01:32:48.320 Truly, why aren't they asking questions about people like that who openly fraternized with

01:32:54.300 him?

01:32:54.460 You know, I will give a shout out to Tina Brown of The Daily Beast on one thing.

01:32:58.220 She wrote some interesting profile on why all these celebs had zero problem fraternizing 1.00

01:33:02.980 with Jeffrey Epstein, even after we knew he was a pervert and a rapist. 0.97

01:33:08.420 And it was basically, they don't care. 0.99

01:33:10.420 The only thing they don't want to be seen around, she wrote, is people who are poor.

01:33:15.400 They were more interested in rubbing elbows with the rich guy, notwithstanding his love 0.99

01:33:21.700 of raping young people. 0.95

01:33:24.460 Yeah, first of all, I mean, I've heard you say this many times before, and it's kind 0.97

01:33:29.160 of amazing how your words have been completely distorted over the last 72 hours to make you

01:33:32.640 seem like you believe the opposite.

01:33:33.860 But that's for another day.

01:33:35.700 But nonetheless, I do think that is the most interesting part of all these releases.

01:33:39.980 The fact that he pled guilty to soliciting a minor for prostitution, which, as you say,

01:33:46.420 is rape. 0.88

01:33:47.720 And obviously, when someone pleads guilty, they're pleading guilty because there's evidence

01:33:51.360 of a lot more crimes.

01:33:52.460 There were a lot more girls, including much younger than the one to which he pled guilty.

01:33:55.660 But even that alone, the thing is, Megan, it didn't affect his standing among the mega

01:34:01.300 elite of our country at all.

01:34:03.680 The financial elite, the political elite, the media elite continue to not just accept

01:34:08.940 him into their circle, but treat him with extreme amounts of deference.

01:34:13.700 And they were so solicitous around him.

01:34:15.740 They wanted him close by.

01:34:17.720 They were chasing after him.

01:34:18.860 He wasn't chasing after them.

01:34:21.100 And throughout history, there is this kind of tendency of elite cultures to get so decadent

01:34:27.600 that they build a wall, like the Wall of Versailles, and they just live behind the wall, and they

01:34:31.380 impose rules on the peasants.

01:34:33.460 But they are completely immune, and they live in the most decadent and degraded ways.

01:34:38.020 And I think that's the only thing that can explain this.

01:34:40.300 I'm sure he had some immense personal skills.

01:34:42.300 Let's remember, he was also pretty close to Steve Bannon, talking all this.

01:34:45.740 So it's like, it's not really even part of it.

01:34:47.380 We also broke that story on Thursday.

01:34:49.820 We did in-depth reporting on Steve Bannon's counseling of Jeffrey Epstein.

01:34:54.160 We outed the tapes that we heard.

01:34:56.100 I mean, we all broke that news on Thursday, and we have not yet had a chance to talk to

01:34:59.840 Steve.

01:35:00.140 But yes, I mean, the number of Democrats, and yes, I'm on the right too, who got in bed

01:35:05.660 with Jeffrey Epstein figuratively, post the expose of his disgusting crimes is really shocking.

01:35:12.940 And not just that, Glenn.

01:35:13.660 And I'm sure you saw what happened, what broke as a result of those emails that were released

01:35:17.260 of his last week.

01:35:18.040 But this Democrat congresswoman who was actively texting with Epstein.

01:35:24.340 Hold on.

01:35:24.840 I think it's in the main packet.

01:35:25.880 I'm trying to find it.

01:35:26.300 Stacey Plaskett of Virgin Islands.

01:35:28.760 Yes.

01:35:29.300 Actively texting with Jeffrey Epstein while she's conducting a congressional hearing, cross-examining

01:35:35.500 Michael Cohen, and Epstein's texting her, oh, ask about Rona, Trump's longtime secretary

01:35:41.580 who became famous on The Apprentice. 0.99

01:35:43.540 And she was too dumb to know who Rona was. 0.98

01:35:45.820 She thought it was an acronym. 0.99

01:35:46.800 But she got it by the time her questioning time came around.

01:35:51.020 And she cross-examined Michael Cohen on Rona at the behest of Jeffrey Epstein.

01:35:57.280 This was in what year?

01:35:58.460 2019, right?

01:35:59.400 Wasn't it 2019?

01:36:00.600 It was after Julie K. Brown blew the lid off everything in the Miami Herald.

01:36:05.640 She's still this Democrat representative from the Virgin Islands. 0.66

01:36:09.120 Chummy with Epstein sending the text, give me the ammo, because the biggest thing is

01:36:14.200 to get Trump.

01:36:15.040 That's the biggest thing. 0.99

01:36:16.520 You can get in bed figuratively with a child molester.

01:36:19.320 Whatever you want, go for it. 0.98

01:36:22.620 Yeah.

01:36:23.200 And I mean, first of all, you know, being in the Virgin Islands, she helped him a lot

01:36:27.420 to be able to get permits, to be able to get tax exemptions.

01:36:30.840 She helped and he donated to her.

01:36:32.560 And then she continued to use him as a political advisor.

01:36:35.280 You can see the video in real time when she's cross-examining witnesses, simultaneously emailing

01:36:40.320 with Jeffrey Epstein.

01:36:41.160 And we now can read the emails that correspond to the time when she's looking down at her

01:36:45.020 phone, getting instructions from him about the questions to answer.

01:36:48.220 This is the party that claims to believe women, to love women, to want to defend victims of

01:36:52.960 women. 0.81

01:36:53.240 Why isn't she being expelled from the party for that? 1.00

01:36:56.140 And the other thing I do think for all the talk about, you know, Trump's relationship

01:37:00.480 with Epstein, one of the things that got revealed is that Epstein hated Trump.

01:37:04.680 Whatever happened between them, it completely broke their relationship.

01:37:09.400 He absolutely loathed Trump.

01:37:10.820 He was working to plot against Trump.

01:37:12.880 Michael Wolff, this journalist who wrote a book about Trump, was encouraging Jeffrey Epstein

01:37:16.660 on how he could blackmail Trump using information that he's supposed to do from the time they

01:37:20.420 were in the 90s.

01:37:20.600 We outed Michael Wolff's close ties and what he was doing to help rehabilitate Epstein last

01:37:26.800 Thursday in an in-depth report.

01:37:28.820 Yes.

01:37:29.280 I mean, like the coziness is deeply disturbing.

01:37:31.900 And honestly, the this woman, Stacey Plaskett of the Rio's Virgin Islands, is out there

01:37:38.180 now trying to tout the fact that she's always stood up for women and girls. 0.99

01:37:42.240 And let me see exactly how she put it.

01:37:44.440 She's a former prosecutor.

01:37:45.300 She welcomes information that helps her get at the truth.

01:37:47.920 Uh, but she's previously made clear her long record of combating sexual assault and human

01:37:51.980 trafficking, her disgust over Epstein's deviant behavior and her support for his victims.

01:37:56.180 His deviant behavior was outed in the fall of 18 by Julie K.

01:38:00.900 Brown of the Miami Herald.

01:38:02.180 This questioning she did her texting with Jeffrey Epstein, where he's saying, you look good.

01:38:07.160 You look great.

01:38:08.200 Thanks with an exclamation.

01:38:09.940 She replied, she replies.

01:38:11.660 And then he texts.

01:38:13.040 He's opened the door to questions.

01:38:15.000 Rhi, who are the other henchmen at the Trump organization?

01:38:18.240 She responds.

01:38:19.140 Yup.

01:38:19.580 Very aware and waiting my turn.

01:38:21.720 Epstein asks, how much longer for you?

01:38:23.160 She writes hours.

01:38:24.280 Go to other meetings.

01:38:25.300 Then when she finally gets in there and he has told her it's about Rona, ask about Rona.

01:38:30.060 Here's what she does. 1.00

01:38:31.200 Watch.

01:38:33.940 Mr.

01:38:35.040 Weisenberg and other individuals, Miss Rona.

01:38:37.220 Who are those individuals?

01:38:38.960 Are they with the Trump organization?

01:38:40.980 They are.

01:38:41.380 Are there other people that we should be meeting with?

01:38:44.320 So, Alan Weisenberg is the chief financial officer.

01:38:47.800 Uh-huh.

01:38:48.240 You've got to quickly give us as many names as you can so we can get to them.

01:38:51.860 Yes, ma'am.

01:38:53.240 As Miss Rona, what is Miss Rona's business?

01:38:55.300 Rona Graff is Mr. Trump's executive assistant.

01:38:58.740 And would she be able to corroborate many of the statements that you've made here?

01:39:01.680 Yes, she was, her office is directly next to his.

01:39:04.960 And she's involved in a lot that went on.

01:39:11.200 That was February of 2019.

01:39:13.760 The Miami Herald did its expose on Epstein in November of 2018.

01:39:18.760 That's what?

01:39:19.920 One, two, three.

01:39:21.040 Three months after this has hit all the, and she's still texting with him.

01:39:25.180 You look great.

01:39:26.120 Thanks.

01:39:26.980 Who should I ask about? 0.99

01:39:28.020 This woman doesn't give a shit about the victims she now purports to care so deeply about. 1.00

01:39:34.740 It's like what Tina Brown said. 0.99

01:39:36.100 Exactly.

01:39:36.440 The only thing that gets you expelled from these people's interest level is poverty.

01:39:40.800 And it is such an indictment, not on Donald Trump, but on our globally class.

01:39:47.020 It's not even in the United States only.

01:39:48.520 And I've seen some people saying, you know, when somebody is convicted of a crime and they

01:39:52.380 serve their time, they're entitled to a fresh start.

01:39:54.500 Like legally, that's true.

01:39:55.600 Although not always.

01:39:56.460 I mean, Jeffrey Epstein was a sex offender.

01:39:58.180 He had ongoing responsibilities.

01:39:59.900 But I think that becomes plausible only if the person's like repenting.

01:40:04.060 You know, I can't believe what I did.

01:40:05.260 I was sick.

01:40:06.100 I'm going to devote all my money to advocating for sex against sex traffic.

01:40:09.680 Jeffrey Epstein didn't do any of that.

01:40:11.280 There was no repentance to him at all.

01:40:13.080 He was joking.

01:40:13.860 In fact, in some of these emails, somebody would mention girls and you'd be like, whoa, girls, be

01:40:17.380 careful.

01:40:17.760 I don't want to restart an old habit. 0.99

01:40:19.640 This was somebody who was completely broken, an absolute pig of a person. 0.97

01:40:24.580 And yet the doors flew open to him. 0.81

01:40:26.780 And so many of our most prominent people, rich, powerful people who you wouldn't think need

01:40:30.980 him, saw a kind of connection to him and identified with him and embraced him on every level, if

01:40:38.180 not literally or physically.

01:40:40.060 And that's what these emails really demonstrate.

01:40:43.120 Yeah.

01:40:43.600 It's an indictment of all of them and their crew who ran cover for him, even when they 0.86

01:40:49.480 knew, they knew he had raped underage children. 1.00

01:40:53.360 This is a sick crew. 1.00

01:40:54.520 Disgusting. 1.00

01:40:55.380 OK, I've got it.

01:40:56.120 You know how you said in your highlight reel that we played before your appearance of the

01:41:00.740 tour that the only time I talk about Michelle Obama is when you make me watch these clips.

01:41:05.220 So we knew you were coming and we baked a cake.

01:41:08.080 Michelle Obama still on her media tour for her book about fashion.

01:41:14.220 And she's got a lot of thoughts about whites.

01:41:18.260 She really doesn't seem to like them.

01:41:20.620 It's like evident in every interview she gets.

01:41:23.660 And she's saying more outrageous things like this one in SOT 15. 0.71

01:41:27.380 I remember when I realized that clothing, my hair, and how I spoke could actually protect

01:41:34.420 me from the microaggressions of racism.

01:41:36.800 I was in my early teens.

01:41:38.780 Do you remember when you realized that clothing could be a tool or when you began to understand

01:41:43.380 the power of how to present yourself within the context of protection or armor?

01:41:48.840 The Magnet High School that I went to was on the west side.

01:41:51.740 And to get to it, we had to cut through downtown.

01:41:54.100 So there was a level of exposure to the high end of Chicago.

01:41:59.160 And to access those places and not be accused of stealing, you realize very early on that

01:42:05.900 you better let them hear you talk or, you know, come in with the right LESAC case or else

01:42:12.320 you would be watched.

01:42:14.320 And, you know, so I think I learned then that how you show up, especially when it comes to

01:42:20.180 white folks looking at young black kids, that how you present can sometimes save your life.

01:42:27.440 Okay. 0.98

01:42:28.240 So, yes, if a black girl walks into the wrong store without a LESAC purse, her life could 1.00

01:42:35.840 be in danger. 0.88

01:42:37.420 She's obsessed with this, Glenn.

01:42:39.100 She's obsessed with this and the hair itch issue, which she also raised in this same

01:42:44.060 interview.

01:42:45.180 Once again, she's back on the hair.

01:42:47.060 Why do we need an act of law to tell white folks to get out of our hair? 1.00

01:42:51.300 I'm going to give you one more SOT 17B.

01:42:57.760 Do you think that that impacts the room that we've made for a woman to be president?

01:43:02.040 Well, as we saw in this past election, sadly, we ain't ready.

01:43:09.280 That's why I'm like, don't even look at me about running because you all are lying.

01:43:13.640 You're not ready for a woman. 1.00

01:43:15.680 You are not.

01:43:16.780 So don't waste my time.

01:43:19.420 You know, we got a lot of growing up to do.

01:43:22.320 And there's still, I'm sadly, a lot of men who do not feel like they can be led by a woman.

01:43:27.660 And we saw it.

01:43:28.860 Go ahead, Glenn.

01:43:33.840 I'm at the point now where if I came on your show and you didn't make me talk about Michelle

01:43:36.820 Obama, I would actually be upset and disappointed because it really, there's so much here.

01:43:41.340 You know, there was this like what I had always thought was a caricature, right?

01:43:44.280 When caricature, when she was a first lady, that she was, you know, deeply harboring these

01:43:48.880 animosities toward white people that she was hiding into the country.

01:43:52.200 And now that she's speaking freely, I mean, it is so true. 0.93

01:43:54.820 There was another clip where she was like, listen up, white people.

01:43:57.540 Well, stay out of our hair and stop making us, you know, straighten our hair because that's

01:44:02.560 how your beauty standards are.

01:44:03.720 And it's like, you're a multi, multimillionaire.

01:44:06.980 No one's forcing you to straighten your hair.

01:44:08.860 And yet you're doing it and then blaming it on white people.

01:44:11.420 It's this constant.

01:44:12.660 I don't know anybody who has been more like blessed and privileged by the United States

01:44:17.160 than Michelle Obama. 0.97

01:44:18.680 And yet the anger and rage that she has for pretty much everyone, including her own husband,

01:44:23.500 but evidently not just the country, but to white people in particular is really quite

01:44:28.880 striking.

01:44:29.380 It was, it was pervasive throughout all of these statements that she's making.

01:44:32.440 It's like listening to the most extremist, wokest, like anti-white ideologue from the peak

01:44:39.240 of, of, of the 2020 woke movement.

01:44:41.280 Yeah.

01:44:42.420 Whenever I hear her talk, I think of the expression, familiarity breeds contempt.

01:44:47.860 She was much better off when she just stayed quiet and let us imagine a statuesque, stoic,

01:44:55.320 strong woman.

01:44:57.080 Now that we see how hateful she is, she's right.

01:44:59.820 She could never run for president.

01:45:01.380 It's over.

01:45:02.640 So is our time together.

01:45:03.760 Glenn Greenwald, love talking to you.

01:45:05.560 Thank you so much for being here.

01:45:07.600 I always love seeing Megan.

01:45:09.020 Thanks for having me.

01:45:09.960 All right.

01:45:10.940 We are back tomorrow with Emily Jashinsky.

01:45:13.240 Don't miss that.

01:45:16.100 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - November 17, 2025

New Bombshell Would-Be Trump Assassin Reporting, Attacks on Vance, and MTG's CNN Apology, with Glenn Greenwald ｜ Ep. 1195

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