The Megyn Kelly Show - New Casey Anthony and JonBenet Ramsey Revelations, and Overcoming Envy, with Mark Geragos, Marcia Clark, and Dr. Laura

00:00:00.520 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.720 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Friday.

00:00:16.120 It's a big day here. Today happens to be my birthday. Yay, Scorpio.

00:00:20.360 And I'm super excited to be spending it with you and with Dr. Laura.

00:00:25.500 She's coming on one second.

00:00:26.420 Also, later today, we're going to be joined by an all-star, all-star Kelly's court, Marcia Clark and Mark Garagos together.

00:00:34.900 I mean, talk about bringing your A-team.

00:00:37.300 This is going to be so fun and there's a lot going on.

00:00:39.900 This is kind of, I don't know if it's provocative, if it's telling, but there's a pretty significant update in the JonBenet Ramsey case.

00:00:48.500 Also, Elizabeth Holmes is going to be sentenced today.

00:00:51.720 The Harvey Weinstein case has gotten out of control in L.A.

00:00:54.640 We'll talk about that, among other cases.

00:00:57.060 So I'll bring those to you in just a bit.

00:00:58.520 First, though, we are joined by one of my favorites, Dr. Laura, host of the Dr. Laura program on Sirius XM, which airs right after this program on Triumph 111.

00:01:09.300 She is the author of 13 best-selling books.

00:01:12.540 And if you just want, I mean, they have withstood the test of time.

00:01:15.440 I have them on audio, the ones that I can get on audio I love.

00:01:18.820 And I just put them on and I, you know, whatever, do my housework or I do my makeup.

00:01:23.320 And it's so fun listening to her, her advice.

00:01:25.820 Everything she said, even in 2000, you could play it today, use it just as much.

00:01:30.240 This life's problems continue to recycle, is what I've noticed.

00:01:33.860 And her solutions hold.

00:01:36.580 She shares her much-needed wisdom with millions of fans every single day.

00:01:40.040 And you can listen to her for three hours, which I often do.

00:01:43.800 Dr. Laura, welcome back to the show.

00:01:46.020 Okay.

00:01:47.080 Prepare yourself.

00:01:48.520 I'll do my best.

00:01:50.180 Happy birthday to you.

00:01:53.100 Happy birthday to you.

00:01:56.360 Happy birthday, wonderful Megan.

00:01:59.960 Happy birthday to you.

00:02:05.200 Wow.

00:02:06.340 Yay.

00:02:07.440 Thank you.

00:02:07.720 I think I hit most of those notes.

00:02:10.040 You did.

00:02:11.300 You know, it's not an easy tune to sing.

00:02:14.200 No, actually, it isn't.

00:02:15.960 Right?

00:02:17.180 Thank you for that lovely greeting and for doing that live on the air.

00:02:20.620 It shows your confidence.

00:02:22.820 I'm so delighted that they booked you for today.

00:02:25.080 I feel like I have so many things that I want to go over with you.

00:02:27.500 There's so many things I want to ask you about that are in the news or just bugging me or whatever.

00:02:32.800 All right.

00:02:33.320 This is a weird place to start, but I've been dying.

00:02:35.420 As the person who wrote The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands, The Proper Care and Feeding of Marriages, can we talk about Tom Brady and Giselle?

00:02:44.340 I know you can't diagnose them, but it's weighing on me.

00:02:48.020 We don't know them.

00:02:49.300 We've met them a couple of times and I've seen them.

00:02:52.580 They looked like the perfect picture of happiness to me.

00:02:55.260 You know, of course, they're both beautiful.

00:02:56.760 They're both super successful.

00:02:57.700 And now the reports are that they've filed for divorce and that she's in Costa Rica where they used to go all the time together with her karate instructor.

00:03:10.020 And they say this marriage has fallen apart because he wouldn't give up his football career.

00:03:17.380 I mean, the guy has six or seven Super Bowl rings and she wanted him to give up his career.

00:03:22.220 I don't know if I believe that.

00:03:23.380 But what do you make of that?

00:03:25.020 Because to me, it just seems like who would let a beautiful marriage fall apart because of football?

00:03:31.680 Nobody would.

00:03:32.640 And it wasn't most likely, therefore, really a beautiful marriage.

00:03:37.180 You have to understand.

00:03:38.260 You must know, because you know so many people in the business, that when there's a husband and wife and they're both hot celebrities,

00:03:46.440 that it becomes business to portray a certain image because that's part of the marketing.

00:03:53.380 Of them.

00:03:56.520 A hundred percent true.

00:03:58.120 You understand what I'm saying without saying it to them?

00:04:01.160 Yes.

00:04:02.060 They were.

00:04:03.220 That doesn't mean that what you saw was real, but it was a business agreement.

00:04:08.720 Do you think I mean, I think about this in the same way Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman fell apart after 10 years, they renewed their vows.

00:04:19.320 And I think within a week he served her with divorce papers.

00:04:22.580 I think on the outside, we do see these beautiful people with these, quote unquote, perfect lives.

00:04:27.660 And we buy it because we're meant to buy it in the same way that the iPhone manipulates us in ways we don't fully understand.

00:04:34.540 So does that industry.

00:04:36.220 And it creates these images that we even smart people who are skeptical wind up believing.

00:04:41.660 And then when it all comes crashing down, we think, huh, I'm so curious.

00:04:45.220 And it's pernicious because we hold ourselves to similar standards that are unattainable.

00:04:49.580 Well, remember, let's see, Sonny Bono and Cher.

00:04:58.640 Yeah.

00:04:59.020 They had a fabulous television show.

00:05:01.660 They were hysterical together.

00:05:04.660 They were incredible together.

00:05:08.240 And one day I was watching the show and I went, the marriage is over.

00:05:15.060 How can you tell?

00:05:16.340 It's just a great show.

00:05:17.640 I can feel it.

00:05:18.520 And sure enough, they filed for divorce.

00:05:21.900 And that was a case where, according to Cher, she wanted to go out and be on her own.

00:05:27.260 He sort of discovered her, she said, and mentored her.

00:05:31.280 And they were wonderful together, but she wanted to be her own person.

00:05:34.920 So there are lots of reasons people get together, stay together when they're in the public view.

00:05:41.740 She came to the place where the public view was not enough for her.

00:05:45.600 She wanted her independence.

00:05:46.920 That's what I read that she said.

00:05:49.180 I have no further knowledge than that.

00:05:51.460 So there are a lot of different kinds of situations.

00:05:54.660 But I think a lot of it is for show.

00:05:59.300 I think that's true.

00:06:00.840 And I think in a more private life, I don't know, you have to make sacrifices for your marriage.

00:06:07.900 You have to make some professional sacrifices for your marriage, which I think people don't think about as much as making sacrifices in their marriage for their professional career.

00:06:16.000 Well, I had a call from a 30-something-year-old male who sounded almost like an AI.

00:06:24.460 And that was his problem, dealing with feelings, something he wouldn't go near.

00:06:29.260 And he asked me, and his career was everything to him.

00:06:32.560 It was the most important thing in the world, but he wanted to have a relationship.

00:06:35.740 And he wanted to know what quality is, first and foremost, if there is a first and foremost.

00:06:44.280 And it's funny what you just said, because I said to him, both people have to be willing to sacrifice for the happiness of the other.

00:06:51.540 If both are not doing that, I mean, if only one does that, that's, to me, almost an abusive relationship.

00:06:56.760 But if both are doing that, that's the perfect marriage.

00:07:00.860 But that's the one thing we need to be able to do, sacrifice.

00:07:06.240 I've heard you talk to people before, and I think you've written about it in your books, about how, okay, if you do it, if you make a sacrifice for your partner, then there's another piece of it, which is not then holding it against them for eternity.

00:07:20.080 Right?

00:07:20.280 Like, you need to do it willingly.

00:07:22.960 Well, then it's not a real sacrifice.

00:07:24.060 It's a manipulation.

00:07:26.220 Yeah.

00:07:27.500 See, they can look the same, but they're not.

00:07:31.360 Resentment is because the manipulation didn't work.

00:07:36.500 Hmm.

00:07:37.620 Mm-hmm.

00:07:38.400 Like, you're trying to get him to be different.

00:07:39.640 I gave up this for you, and now I'm expecting to get this.

00:07:43.020 It's not the same thing as, I love you, and I want you to be happy, so this is what I'm giving to you.

00:07:49.640 Hmm.

00:07:50.500 It's a gift.

00:07:51.220 Right.

00:07:51.480 We don't get resentful about heartfelt gifts.

00:07:55.200 You've talked about how looking at others, because I'm thinking about this and the way we perceive these quote-unquote perfect marriages, and the way we perceive these quote-unquote perfect people on Instagram, on TikTok.

00:08:11.420 Young women deal with this a lot about how it can lead to a deterioration in confidence.

00:08:19.380 People ask you all the time, how do I be more confident in myself, or how do I help my child become more confident?

00:08:25.240 And one of the things I know you say you're not supposed to do is compare yourself to other people.

00:08:31.120 But it's very hard in today's day and age, which is so visual.

00:08:35.560 These images are being pushed on kids and teens, forget kids who aren't really supposed to be on there, but let's say 22-year-olds, on Instagram with the filters and the magazines and so on, and like the ubiquitousness of celebrity culture at every turn.

00:08:50.560 And even in one's personal life, you know, they have their Facebook friends and their couple from college they knew, they've got everything, and I don't.

00:08:58.760 So what do you say to the people who are struggling not to take that leap of making a comparison between their own life and somebody else's?

00:09:04.460 Well, I remind them that they're making a comparison about an ongoing video, their own lives, and a snapshot of somebody else's.

00:09:16.460 I remember I got an email last week from a woman who said she was at some lake, and she was watching a family that she was related to.

00:09:27.320 She was watching a family, everybody was fighting, nasty, and annoyed, and tired, and pissed off, and not being nice to each other, and then they took a family picture and put it on Facebook.

00:09:38.260 And she said, snapshot, not reality.

00:09:43.000 So your life is a video.

00:09:45.640 Those things on the net are snapshots.

00:09:49.200 You can't compare because you're not comparing the same thing.

00:09:53.120 Anybody, if I had a very unhappy person, I could still find something in their day that was good and take a snapshot.

00:09:59.800 Nobody would know they were depressed.

00:10:04.560 What about that feeling of envy that creeps up?

00:10:08.080 I mean, in this business, I remember at Fox News, it was, you would see it everywhere.

00:10:14.520 And Roger told me young in my career, early on, he said,

00:10:18.120 Other people will try to imitate you, but there will only ever be one you, so you don't have to worry about them.

00:10:24.660 And that was a release for me, because that does happen.

00:10:27.300 You know, sometimes you're like, you're irritating.

00:10:29.800 But I think people do it as a form of flattery, as a form of envy, potentially.

00:10:34.440 But when you are feeling envy, it's a terrible feeling.

00:10:39.480 Well, it means you've dismissed the value of yourself, because it looks like somebody else has more or is better.

00:10:45.880 And there was a talk show host in Los Angeles, and he would start his show by saying, somebody would say to him,

00:10:55.380 How are you today?

00:10:56.260 You know, callers tend to do that, so how are you?

00:10:59.100 Better than some, worse than others.

00:11:03.020 I remember that.

00:11:03.960 That's the truth for everything.

00:11:05.240 I'm prettier than some, not as pretty as others.

00:11:08.500 I'm smarter than some, not as smart as others.

00:11:11.560 That's it.

00:11:13.320 There's a whole spectrum, and you're somewhere on the spectrum, which means there are people behind you who are looking at you and going,

00:11:21.240 You know, I'd like to have those legs.

00:11:26.700 Well, I would like to have Tina Turner's legs.

00:11:28.820 There's no question about it.

00:11:30.060 And arms.

00:11:32.040 My arms are pretty good.

00:11:33.100 It's the legs.

00:11:35.280 That's true.

00:11:36.080 I forgot who I was talking to.

00:11:37.440 It is true.

00:11:41.680 It's actually kind of insane how, the shape that you're in.

00:11:45.240 I have a confession to make.

00:11:47.340 I have not worked out in two years, Dr. Laura.

00:11:50.480 Two years.

00:11:52.420 Oh, honey bun, that's going to catch up on you.

00:11:55.140 I know.

00:11:55.980 Because now I'm getting older, too.

00:11:57.780 So, and I know you've got to put those deposits in right now.

00:12:01.080 So, I don't know.

00:12:02.520 Okay.

00:12:02.700 Megan, do you have a pencil?

00:12:05.280 Megan, do you have a pencil on you?

00:12:07.360 I'm ready to go.

00:12:07.880 Okay.

00:12:08.300 Drop it on the floor.

00:12:10.340 Okay.

00:12:10.720 Just turn around and drop it on the floor.

00:12:12.640 Done.

00:12:13.380 That's what's going to happen to all your body parts.

00:12:18.540 Well, that's it.

00:12:20.520 That's called gravity.

00:12:22.140 Oh, no.

00:12:23.680 Oh, yeah.

00:12:24.400 I, it's like, I know this intellectually, but it's so hard to force myself up off of

00:12:32.720 the couch.

00:12:33.080 Like, I'm tired all the time.

00:12:35.180 I, and once you start, you get into a groove and you can keep it rolling, but it's hard

00:12:39.560 to start.

00:12:40.560 You know, I need that motivation to start.

00:12:43.080 Maybe it'll be my 52nd birthday.

00:12:45.080 You're not any motivation.

00:12:46.440 You just need discipline.

00:12:47.260 I work out a lot and do all this stuff a lot.

00:12:51.580 And I don't sit there and go, oh, goody, oh, goody, goody, goody, goody.

00:12:56.020 I'm going to push weights.

00:12:57.480 What I do is say, 730, it's time to do it.

00:13:01.420 So it's discipline.

00:13:02.800 Everybody wants motivation.

00:13:04.560 How about this?

00:13:05.600 Go on one of the apps, which shows you 30 years from now, a whole body.

00:13:12.140 Oh, God.

00:13:12.800 Maybe that'll motivate you to work out, but, you know, collagen disappears and gravity

00:13:18.640 takes over and it's just the reality of life.

00:13:22.400 But the more you work out, the healthier you stay and the better you're going to look, even

00:13:26.740 with gravity and collagen.

00:13:28.600 How have you dealt with aging, right?

00:13:31.640 How have you dealt with aging?

00:13:33.300 Have you been fighting it every step of the way?

00:13:34.900 Have you been embracing your age?

00:13:36.220 I mean, how do you think about it?

00:13:39.240 Most of the, well, I'm going to be 76 in January.

00:13:42.800 And I don't look like it.

00:13:44.640 I don't feel like it.

00:13:45.880 I feel like I'm not the age I am.

00:13:49.540 Nonetheless, I look in the mirror and go, shit.

00:13:57.160 I looked a lot better 10 years ago.

00:13:59.520 What the hell?

00:14:00.640 So, but, you know, I'm so active that I don't sit and fret about it as long as I can still,

00:14:07.480 as they say, kick ass in the gym and on the water racing my boat and everything else.

00:14:13.620 As long as I can still do the things that give me purpose in life, I'll tolerate the

00:14:19.160 fact that, you know, I have smile lines when I'm not smiling.

00:14:23.660 Mm-hmm.

00:14:24.060 I heard you telling a story on your show one day about how you were in an exercise class

00:14:29.080 and you had your legs bent up like over the top of you and sort of seeing the skin sagging

00:14:35.700 down and thinking, whoa, this is not a good position.

00:14:38.780 Let's get out of this position.

00:14:39.860 Well, it was downward facing dog and I had shorts on.

00:14:43.800 I normally used yoga pants.

00:14:45.580 You don't see that when you get in that position that all the skin above your knee crinkles up.

00:14:51.720 So there I am upside down going, what the hell is that?

00:14:55.140 What did that get here?

00:14:57.540 That was my first notion because when you're standing up, you know, it all looks okay.

00:15:02.900 Yeah, that's right.

00:15:04.680 You're more stretched out.

00:15:06.580 I know.

00:15:07.720 I like that.

00:15:08.700 You're right.

00:15:09.040 I have to think about it more as like a discipline.

00:15:11.400 I always used to say when selecting a mate, you know, when selecting a life partner, you

00:15:17.500 know, how a lot of these Chinese marriages are arranged.

00:15:20.280 Put yourselves in the shoes of the Chinese parent.

00:15:23.240 Make a decision that you think is best for you on paper.

00:15:27.320 Don't let it be all heart because some people you can see intellectually are not right for

00:15:32.940 you or you don't have shared values or you don't.

00:15:35.060 If you're very religious, you marry somebody from another religion.

00:15:37.300 This is going to be a problem.

00:15:38.260 So on.

00:15:39.300 And so this is kind of the same to me.

00:15:40.900 Like put yourself in the shoes of your own parent.

00:15:42.880 What would you make you do?

00:15:44.040 I would make me get up earlier and do the damn workout.

00:15:47.680 It could be 30 minutes, could be 20 minutes or at least a couple of times a week.

00:15:50.700 I got to get started.

00:15:52.160 I guess now is as good a time as any.

00:15:54.740 You make a decision like when I'm in the house, I go, OK, I'm going to go down there

00:15:59.220 for an hour and that's it.

00:16:00.320 Just going to do it.

00:16:01.100 It'll be over.

00:16:01.940 And then I can pour a glass of wine.

00:16:04.120 Right.

00:16:04.920 730.

00:16:06.520 So wait, speaking of your home.

00:16:08.120 Not in the morning.

00:16:09.220 No, that would hurt.

00:16:10.760 Speaking of your home, you're moving.

00:16:12.540 You're, you're, you're downsizing.

00:16:14.140 Actually, as of yesterday, I'm not.

00:16:16.960 Oh, why?

00:16:17.920 What, what happened?

00:16:18.800 Because you've got this amazing, amazing home.

00:16:21.580 Yeah.

00:16:22.180 Out in, on the ocean.

00:16:24.320 The buyer at the last, at the last moment freaked out.

00:16:29.040 I don't, I don't.

00:16:30.800 So I've decided I'm going to do some of the cosmetic things I've always wanted to do.

00:16:38.060 And I'm going to stay here because I have almost 280 degrees of ocean.

00:16:43.260 Yes.

00:16:44.040 Why, why do I have to downsize?

00:16:45.700 I can still pay my bills.

00:16:47.040 What the hell?

00:16:48.160 Right.

00:16:48.900 And you have to be thinking about, I know you took a tumble and broke your wrist.

00:16:52.400 You have to be thinking about making it safe, right?

00:16:55.060 Because we all do get older and things get like a fall.

00:16:57.440 Actually, Megan, you're, you're walking into it now.

00:17:01.280 I didn't fall because I'm old and fragile and dizzy.

00:17:04.740 I fell because this brand new pair of sneakers caught on some Velcro like stuff on a stair.

00:17:10.300 So I couldn't move my leg forward.

00:17:12.320 And I just took a nosedive.

00:17:14.580 But, you know, I'm not worried about stairs or any of that.

00:17:16.800 No.

00:17:17.440 Well, here's what somebody, here's what my, my sister-in-law sent me this morning.

00:17:21.620 You ready?

00:17:22.320 How to find out if you're old.

00:17:23.980 Fall down.

00:17:25.020 Fall down.

00:17:25.480 If people laugh, you're young.

00:17:27.880 If people panic, you're old.

00:17:32.440 Well, having fallen and nobody laughed, but they, you know, I was running down the stairs

00:17:39.360 and my shoe caught and that's that.

00:17:40.920 It wasn't your typical, I fell over, you know.

00:17:44.360 I can stand on one foot and do the rest of this interview the whole time on one foot.

00:17:49.660 You're five and a half years younger than my mom.

00:17:51.980 And I, I don't think my mom would mind me telling you, she is nowhere near this level

00:17:57.060 of physical capability.

00:17:58.040 And she is definitely at the stage where you're like, oh my God, she could tumble at any second.

00:18:02.500 You know, she has to use a walker at times.

00:18:04.280 Like, it's a more inspiration to work out and get that sort of muscle base going into your

00:18:11.920 seventies, you know, long before you get there.

00:18:14.540 But also, I don't know, be, you know, you do need to make your environment favorable to aging.

00:18:23.080 Hopefully you're going to be with us for another 25, 35 more years.

00:18:26.380 Um, I don't know.

00:18:28.140 It's, I'm thinking about a lot because of her.

00:18:30.200 So you could probably stay in your house forever, right?

00:18:32.340 If you just make sure it's user-friendly.

00:18:37.020 Next subject.

00:18:38.360 She's like, what are you saying?

00:18:40.680 This is not going to apply to me.

00:18:42.360 I was just like, I'm seeing these arms, please.

00:18:47.180 Okay.

00:18:47.580 Well, let's, let's talk about this.

00:18:49.040 Um, there's been a lot of buzz in female circles, um, that I'm on, like on online about

00:18:56.880 where are all the female leaders, right?

00:18:59.560 That we're, we're back to Trump and Biden.

00:19:01.740 That's probably how it's going to be.

00:19:03.100 Or maybe it's going to be DeSantis and Biden.

00:19:05.180 Um, but there's, it's certainly not going to be Kamala Harris versus Kristi Noem.

00:19:09.660 It's not maybe at the number two level, but there's not going to be a female presidential

00:19:12.900 candidate who really has got a chance of winning.

00:19:15.440 And then that expands to where are all the female CEOs?

00:19:18.160 Why are so few fortune 100 and fortune 500 companies being run by CEOs?

00:19:22.760 And I used to ask these same questions thinking it was somehow reflective of a societal problem.

00:19:28.920 And the more I've thought about it, the older I've gotten, the more I think

00:19:32.640 it might be reflective of a societal plus in the female category of women understanding

00:19:40.600 those jobs are awful.

00:19:43.820 They ruin your life.

00:19:45.700 You can't have, right?

00:19:46.980 You can't have a family.

00:19:47.720 And I feel like women, they intentionally make other choices.

00:19:51.440 This may not be a problem that society has to solve at all.

00:19:55.160 That's correct.

00:19:56.240 I'm so happy to hear you say this because it's absolutely correct.

00:20:00.460 Answer me this.

00:20:02.140 You have a very big, adoring fan base.

00:20:06.220 If you said you wanted to run for some kind of office, they'd support you.

00:20:10.360 Do you really want to live that life?

00:20:13.320 Hell no.

00:20:13.860 I've been asked, and I said hell no.

00:20:20.820 Women, by and large, don't want to sacrifice that much.

00:20:25.820 I actually feel bad for men.

00:20:29.660 They have a shorter lifespan.

00:20:32.120 Think about it.

00:20:33.640 They're in war much more than women are, except civilians if you're in the Ukraine.

00:20:41.380 They'd have coal mines.

00:20:44.200 I mean, they do the heavy lifting.

00:20:46.660 And then we diss men as being some kind of ugly patriarchy.

00:20:52.560 What about all the roads?

00:20:54.080 Are women out there with pitchforks and hammers and nails and laying tracks down for railroads?

00:21:02.100 So, I mean, this country is pretty much glued together by the work of men on their backs.

00:21:08.220 And yet we complain about, guys, I think it's terrible that we are disrespecting what men have provided.

00:21:15.160 And if, you know, women still, we want to be the ones who nurture our kids, except for some strange circumstances.

00:21:24.760 Like, I think it was a woman, and I don't remember her name, but I think she was the CEO of one of the bubbly drink companies that I don't want to say.

00:21:33.760 And she talked about how her kids ask her, please, to spend time.

00:21:41.120 And, you know, she feels bad for them, but this is her career.

00:21:43.900 I was on with Katie Couric one time on the Today Show, and she stunned me by going into, her kids are very supportive of what she does.

00:21:53.640 And I said, you know, the cheering is supposed to go the other way.

00:21:56.620 So, there are women types who are different, but by and large, women want to be taking care of family, interspersed with work.

00:22:10.100 Like, you take care of family with work.

00:22:11.820 I did.

00:22:13.040 But we didn't make the work force us to sacrifice our kids.

00:22:18.200 So, yeah, I don't think women, by and large, want a lot of these jobs.

00:22:21.220 You don't see them clamoring to be in coal mines.

00:22:23.740 No.

00:22:24.460 Even once my kids are grown, I don't.

00:22:26.620 I don't foresee me saying, OK, now I'll do it.

00:22:29.900 I love my free time.

00:22:31.680 I don't want that kind of scrutiny in my life, even.

00:22:34.000 I mean, I have some, of course, but that's next level.

00:22:36.800 I would like to be free once my kids are out of the house to spend days reading books, doing something more leisurely.

00:22:42.960 I really don't want to be immersed in the toxicity of politics or even a CEO job at that level, which is completely dominating of your waking hours.

00:22:55.480 I don't even know how you can discuss politics without your eyes rolling around in your head.

00:23:02.660 I mean, it's gotten so disgusting and stupid.

00:23:05.980 Seriously, that I applaud you for being able with a straight face to do interviews about politics.

00:23:13.940 I don't always have a straight face.

00:23:17.100 That's probably why I'm able to do it.

00:23:19.160 You know, I've maintained my sense of humor and I don't get too bummed out by any electoral result or too excited by one either.

00:23:26.440 I kind of think the system as a whole will correct itself if it goes too far.

00:23:32.740 We tend to pull back from our lifetime.

00:23:35.380 In our lifetime, you think that'll happen?

00:23:38.800 Well, OK, you're optimistic.

00:23:40.840 One can always dream.

00:23:42.280 I am.

00:23:42.960 I am generally optimistic.

00:23:44.760 Actually, I think that's true.

00:23:46.140 Another good quality in a news person, right?

00:23:48.040 Because it's such a depressing business otherwise.

00:23:51.000 Yes, true.

00:23:51.620 Good point.

00:23:52.740 Yeah.

00:23:52.960 Well, I don't know.

00:23:55.380 I think.

00:23:58.140 My best quality as a news anchor has sort of been the ability to say, hey, all right, whatever, you know, like I don't really care that much about what you're saying or what you're doing.

00:24:07.380 There's certain things, something something is going to severely hurt my kid, you know, but for the most part, I'm like, you're going to be here today, gone tomorrow.

00:24:14.020 I'm going to be interviewing somebody just like you in two weeks, you know, like you're really not that important.

00:24:19.200 I don't know.

00:24:21.220 You're a scream.

00:24:22.140 I just love you.

00:24:24.040 You're just a scream.

00:24:25.900 Oh, thank you.

00:24:27.100 Now, wait, while I have you, I have to thank you for the beautiful.

00:24:31.680 I'm trying to show it now.

00:24:33.360 Bracelet that you made.

00:24:35.560 You made for me.

00:24:37.220 It's absolutely gorgeous.

00:24:38.400 It's got a little purple flower, a little yellow flower, a little orange flower and beautiful silver bracelet.

00:24:43.880 And this this is not the only one, because this is part of a charity that you help troops through our American veterans.

00:24:52.000 I raise money for the Children of Fallen Patriots Foundation.

00:24:55.620 I'm so glad you like that piece.

00:24:57.160 Fallen Patriots Foundation.

00:24:58.540 They give college scholarships to kids whose parents were killed in combat.

00:25:04.360 And I've been doing that for quite a while.

00:25:06.040 Oh, gosh, somebody sent that.

00:25:07.820 I did that in my kitchen.

00:25:09.300 Took that video.

00:25:10.260 Absolutely beautiful.

00:25:11.360 These are earrings that I made for the holiday boutique.

00:25:17.160 Those are real flowers.

00:25:19.500 How do you how do you do that?

00:25:21.620 Like how how do you make a real flower into a piece of jewelry like this?

00:25:26.820 Well, interestingly enough, my main source of dried and pressed flowers is from a woman in the Ukraine.

00:25:37.840 What?

00:25:38.440 But I connected with her on Etsy and she has the most beautiful display of flowers.

00:25:45.580 And that's where I get them from.

00:25:48.040 And she's I don't know how to say it correctly.

00:25:50.740 Kiev, the capital.

00:25:52.480 I'm saying it right.

00:25:53.540 It used to be Kiev and then they changed it to Kiev without telling us.

00:25:56.980 OK, OK.

00:25:58.340 Well, you know, I went into Etsy, looked at the flowers, ordered them.

00:26:02.420 And then when it came, I thought, oh, my God, I didn't even realize it was coming from the Ukraine.

00:26:05.640 So I started writing to her.

00:26:07.420 How are you doing?

00:26:08.440 You know, she's sending flowers around the world while she's getting bombed.

00:26:13.580 Wow.

00:26:14.160 Some people are amazing.

00:26:16.360 Does she have any idea who she's corresponding with?

00:26:18.560 Does she know she knows you?

00:26:20.120 No, no.

00:26:21.140 She just knows I'm a frequent, frequent flyer.

00:26:23.720 I buy flowers a lot.

00:26:25.920 She could probably really use instead of your your money, a trade deal in advice.

00:26:31.020 She only knew.

00:26:34.660 Yeah.

00:26:35.240 So it's it's been wonderful.

00:26:36.740 And what I do is I find people who are very when I take on a new art form.

00:26:42.120 This is resin, UV resin.

00:26:44.280 When I take on a new art form, I immediately try to find out who's really good at it in the country and read their books.

00:26:53.040 If they have books, look at their tapes, if they have tapes and actually call them up and ask a million questions.

00:26:58.720 And I have found that people are always so happy to be helpful to somebody who is enjoying their art form.

00:27:07.200 And, you know, I stopped doing a fused glass.

00:27:11.380 I just one day I walked in there and went, I'm done.

00:27:13.640 And what's next?

00:27:15.060 And it was the resin.

00:27:16.720 I just love it.

00:27:17.700 It's so it's so pretty to have real.

00:27:20.580 It's so pretty and it's it's elegant to I'm just showing it again.

00:27:24.260 Hopefully the audience can see this on the YouTube, but it's so elegant.

00:27:27.600 It's it's this bracelet that I have here is like a little understated, but still with some pop and some color.

00:27:33.940 And so it's like not boring.

00:27:36.240 It's exciting.

00:27:37.100 It's pretty.

00:27:37.700 Thank you.

00:27:38.080 It's eye catching, but it's not too much either because I don't I don't go too much in my jewelry.

00:27:42.100 I kind of keep it understated.

00:27:43.220 So it's no, I noticed that.

00:27:44.560 Absolutely love it.

00:27:45.780 I noticed that you're understated in your jewelry.

00:27:48.700 Yeah, I can't.

00:27:49.240 And I also wore, you know, sleeves for you today because I know you don't like when your news anchors are showing skin.

00:27:59.540 These sleeves are because I love you.

00:28:04.920 Standby.

00:28:05.380 Well, you got nice cleavage there.

00:28:07.100 So, OK, we're making up for it.

00:28:08.900 There's really nothing there.

00:28:10.680 Are you kidding?

00:28:12.200 If I had it, I would show it, however.

00:28:14.760 All right.

00:28:15.100 I'm I'm going to go I'm going to go get an ad in because, you know, we work for Sirius and it's important to keep them in business more with Dr.

00:28:24.320 Laura and her corny joke marathon.

00:28:27.940 And I've got one for her.

00:28:29.120 All right.

00:28:33.540 So she is doing a corny joke day on Wednesday before Thanksgiving.

00:28:40.420 This is perfect timing.

00:28:41.580 You're going to have your corny jokes ready for getting back together with your family.

00:28:45.340 It is.

00:28:46.460 OK, let's see.

00:28:47.200 Yes.

00:28:47.660 Wednesday, 1123.

00:28:48.940 So let me play a little bit of of what happened last year just to give you a taste of what to expect.

00:28:55.360 Here it is.

00:28:56.260 Gobble, gobble, Vanessa.

00:28:57.380 What is your corny joke?

00:28:59.160 Gobble, gobble, Dr. Laura.

00:29:02.300 What did the blonde say to her husband who would not let her get in a word edgewise about how to cook the corn for Thanksgiving?

00:29:13.040 I don't know.

00:29:14.160 How?

00:29:14.540 Oh, just just just just just just just just I know you hear me.

00:29:28.160 That is very good.

00:29:30.380 That is very good.

00:29:33.760 With the laugh track.

00:29:35.380 Well done.

00:29:36.920 I've got one for you.

00:29:38.260 I've got one for you.

00:29:39.020 This is courtesy of my son, Yates.

00:29:41.360 When does a joke become a dad joke?

00:29:44.540 When it becomes a parent.

00:29:47.860 Dad.

00:29:49.300 Well, oh, that's good.

00:29:55.040 You see, and they have to be corny.

00:29:56.760 They can't be like normal.

00:29:59.340 Right.

00:29:59.620 They're not supposed to be.

00:30:00.780 That's cute.

00:30:02.280 How old is he?

00:30:03.920 He's 13.

00:30:05.120 I mean, he's got a lot that have to do with bathroom bathroom issues.

00:30:08.360 But I figure I'd censor those.

00:30:10.000 Yeah.

00:30:10.660 Yeah.

00:30:10.880 But we don't do those.

00:30:12.700 His other candidate was a man goes for an interview at a job and they say, I see here

00:30:17.980 you got fired from your last job at the bank.

00:30:20.960 What happened?

00:30:21.900 And the man says, well, an elderly woman came in and she said, I need to check my balance.

00:30:28.860 So I shoved her over.

00:30:29.940 That's terrible.

00:30:35.400 How about a dumb blonde joke?

00:30:37.800 I used to be more blonde, but now I'm just totally platinum.

00:30:41.900 But anyway, naturally, a dumb blonde joke.

00:30:45.340 What did the blonde say when she looked inside the carton of Cheerios?

00:30:50.000 What?

00:30:51.140 Look, donut eggs.

00:30:52.760 It takes a moment.

00:30:59.960 And that's my favorite dumb blonde joke.

00:31:02.480 I like it.

00:31:03.180 Yeah.

00:31:03.760 I like it a lot.

00:31:05.200 Here's one.

00:31:05.820 This isn't actually this isn't a corny joke, but I do love this joke and it's rather quick.

00:31:11.100 Old man, he's like 95, decides to get married to this 25 year old woman and he's concerned

00:31:17.980 a little.

00:31:18.280 So he goes to the doctor before the wedding night and he says, hey, doc, you know, I'm

00:31:21.340 marrying a 25 year old woman tomorrow.

00:31:23.140 He says, oh, my goodness, sir.

00:31:24.100 Wow.

00:31:24.380 Really?

00:31:24.980 Yes.

00:31:25.300 He says, you know, anything I need to know about anything you want to let me know.

00:31:29.040 And the doc says, well, I got to let you know.

00:31:32.360 Sex could be potentially fatal, could be lethal.

00:31:36.660 And in response to which the old man says, well, she dies, she dies.

00:31:46.500 That's good.

00:31:47.120 I like that.

00:31:48.280 I like this idea.

00:31:49.700 Just get people laughing before they go home for the holidays.

00:31:52.540 And this is something you've long been telling people like a few helpful hints before you

00:31:57.400 go home for the holidays.

00:31:58.240 We're going into the stretch, you know, the six week stretch where it's as holidays, parties,

00:32:03.140 office gatherings and so on.

00:32:04.920 And people sort of have to gear up with do's and don'ts for this season to remind themselves

00:32:11.060 how to manage it because it can be stressful, too, for people.

00:32:14.560 Well, yes.

00:32:16.140 Well, the first thing I tell people is have the courage not to go where you really don't

00:32:20.900 want to be.

00:32:23.160 That takes the stress out.

00:32:25.440 That's right up my alley.

00:32:26.520 Oh, I don't want to go to that party because their son molested me when I was six.

00:32:30.420 Well, don't go to that party.

00:32:33.340 Yeah.

00:32:34.000 Steer clear.

00:32:34.580 Now, the other one is if you've got a bone to pick with anybody, don't pick the bone

00:32:40.700 when you're there.

00:32:42.500 That's a time to eat, drink and be merry.

00:32:44.460 And if you can't do that, don't go.

00:32:46.700 So there's a lot of don't go.

00:32:48.820 That would solve a lot of stress.

00:32:51.060 Yeah.

00:32:51.240 You're not obligated to be anywhere that you don't want to be.

00:32:55.260 You're not.

00:32:56.400 People say they are because they're...

00:32:58.640 I like to tell people to distinguish between relatives and family.

00:33:02.740 There are people who, by marriage or genetics, are related.

00:33:06.000 That doesn't mean they're warm, loving, reasonable, kind, compassionate people you want to be with.

00:33:11.020 That's family.

00:33:13.480 So what do you do?

00:33:14.860 Because typically, you want to go see your mom, for example.

00:33:17.500 You want to go see your dad.

00:33:18.240 You want to go be with your cousins.

00:33:19.980 There are 364 other days to see them if you don't want to be there at the same time as

00:33:27.560 other people who are dangerous or drunks or whatever.

00:33:33.980 The amount of family time can be stressful for people who, like, you've got to go see

00:33:39.980 whatever.

00:33:40.840 Let's say, you know, you are going to be with your husband's family.

00:33:44.500 This is not my situation, so I just want to make sure my mother-in-law doesn't think I'm

00:33:47.620 talking about her.

00:33:48.040 But there are a lot of people who feel like they've got to do it, and they've got to spend

00:33:51.600 time with their husband's family or the wife's family.

00:33:55.720 And it can be very stressful for them to manage.

00:33:57.760 They do it for their loved one, but it's a stressful thing to manage.

00:34:01.600 So what do you do?

00:34:03.260 Like, if you can't get out of it, hold your tongue?

00:34:05.480 Well, there is no not getting out of it.

00:34:09.100 For example, if you're a woman whose husband has family that's very mean to her, or let's

00:34:17.440 just go for mean to her, tell your husband, go, not on Thanksgiving, because that's our

00:34:22.320 family's time, and just see your parents some other time.

00:34:26.260 There is no got to.

00:34:27.800 People keep thinking there's a got to.

00:34:30.880 No, there isn't.

00:34:32.220 You are in charge of your life.

00:34:35.740 And any spouse that would want you to put yourself in a situation where you're being bullied or

00:34:41.520 harassed, hurt, is not behaving in a very loving way.

00:34:48.080 So I have a whole different way of looking at this.

00:34:51.820 Do not put yourself in a situation to be abused.

00:34:55.280 No.

00:34:56.740 That, you don't do that for your spouse.

00:34:59.680 You don't do that for any reason at all.

00:35:02.060 No.

00:35:02.680 No, no, no, no, no.

00:35:05.100 You are in charge of yourself.

00:35:08.160 You decide.

00:35:09.720 So that reminds me of another thing I've been wanting to ask you about friends.

00:35:14.200 I know you say that you, you don't do in your real life what you do on your show.

00:35:19.940 You're not running around just offering advice to people.

00:35:22.820 And on your show, it is solicited advice.

00:35:25.340 But I know you're not sort of running around to cocktail parties saying, well, you made the

00:35:29.800 wrong move there.

00:35:30.520 You know, you shouldn't.

00:35:33.960 Would be fun.

00:35:34.940 I can think it, but I don't say it.

00:35:37.360 Right.

00:35:38.620 But what do you do?

00:35:40.980 I'm having this, this debate right now with some friends.

00:35:43.660 If you have a friend whose behavior you object to, who you, who you would like to weigh

00:35:48.420 in with, you would like to say, I don't think what you're doing is good for you.

00:35:51.980 I don't like the way it makes you act.

00:35:54.440 I want you to make a different choice.

00:35:56.060 And here's why I'm advocating this.

00:35:59.640 I have a group of friends that's saying you should do that.

00:36:02.160 If you have a friend who you want to say that to, you should air it out.

00:36:05.460 Let the friend respond.

00:36:06.340 And I've been more in the camp of it's not my business.

00:36:10.360 Like my friend will lead their lives according to how they want to lead their lives.

00:36:14.880 And it's not for me to tell them, I think it's wrong and I don't like what you're doing.

00:36:19.380 I'll just have to decide on my own whether I want to be around this person anymore.

00:36:22.820 And they're more in the camp of no fight for it.

00:36:24.580 Like express your feelings.

00:36:26.160 Let them express theirs.

00:36:27.640 They're making good points.

00:36:28.840 I'm not sure what the answer is.

00:36:31.280 I am.

00:36:32.500 I'm sure that you're right.

00:36:37.400 You're absolutely 100% right.

00:36:39.140 They are 100% wrong.

00:36:40.260 It's not even 99.

00:36:42.520 Oh, wow.

00:36:43.080 This is fascinating.

00:36:43.860 Keep going.

00:36:47.400 Hey, you know who you're talking to.

00:36:49.200 I'm blunt, short, and sweet to the point.

00:36:51.920 But why am I so right?

00:36:54.420 You are right because it is none of your business.

00:36:57.840 Your business is how somebody impacts you.

00:37:01.620 Now, the only time I make an exception is when somebody's hurting a kid.

00:37:09.300 Friend or not, I've been in a store where somebody was, one husband was holding a kid and it was 9 o'clock at night and the kid's crying and he slams the kid.

00:37:19.500 And I walked over and this guy could have squashed me like a bug.

00:37:22.740 And I said, your kid is tired.

00:37:25.340 Not bad.

00:37:28.120 You don't hit a tired kid.

00:37:30.860 So when there's a child involved, I don't keep quiet.

00:37:35.560 But I don't worry about adults making their own stupid choices.

00:37:40.340 That's theirs.

00:37:41.440 And if the choices are so egregious that I believe they cannot be a friend, then that's it.

00:37:49.300 They're not a friend.

00:37:50.200 But I don't intervene in people's lives other than intercepting an adult hurting a kid.

00:37:57.820 Do you give advice to friends who ask you for it?

00:38:06.200 They don't ask me for advice, interestingly enough, now that you ask me and I'm thinking about it.

00:38:11.360 We discuss the subject.

00:38:12.500 Like, this is happening at home and I'm kind of frustrated and tired about it.

00:38:18.300 And we just talk about it like two friends talk about something.

00:38:22.220 But I don't become Dr. Laura to my friends.

00:38:24.740 Never.

00:38:25.140 Right.

00:38:25.760 Never.

00:38:27.060 Cut to the chase.

00:38:27.780 Cut to the office.

00:38:29.520 Cut to the office.

00:38:31.300 Okay.

00:38:31.680 Well, this parlays into something else on the advice front.

00:38:36.560 Children.

00:38:37.820 Now, how do we know?

00:38:39.260 Mine are 13, 11, and 9.

00:38:41.640 They are still very much, I think, in the phase where they need my advice.

00:38:45.340 They need Doug's advice.

00:38:46.200 They need us to help develop character and help them figure out how to make judgments and, you know, how this whole process works.

00:38:53.460 And what are our values as a family?

00:38:55.340 But at some point, I've heard you say this to people a million times, like they have to solve their own problems.

00:39:01.200 Mommy and daddy can't swoop in and be there for every single one.

00:39:04.700 So where generally is that line?

00:39:08.800 The line is when, as I am certain, because I've known you for a while now, I am certain that your kids know that no matter how dumb they've been to do something really stupid, that they can come to the two of you.

00:39:23.860 So when kids know that, you don't have to lecture them.

00:39:28.960 They're going to come to you and say, what should I do?

00:39:31.940 This is what I've done.

00:39:33.300 I know it's bad.

00:39:34.480 How do I get out of it?

00:39:35.540 They're going to come to you and ask for the advice.

00:39:37.820 You're not going to have to dole it out.

00:39:40.200 And that's going to be, you know, as they get closer to 20.

00:39:45.300 So it'll be obvious, like they'll be seeking it out.

00:39:51.880 Yeah, because they trust you.

00:39:53.920 That's the thing that most parents don't think about.

00:39:56.140 They just want to become over-controlling and micromanaging.

00:39:59.620 But if your kids know that you will not just sit in judgment and go crazy, but you will listen and have a conversation about it, then for the rest of their lives, they're going to come to you because they know they don't know everything.

00:40:12.960 But how does this work with missteps?

00:40:15.360 I can talk about this freely now because they're so young, so people know that none of this has happened in our lives.

00:40:19.640 But what if, I mean, what if one of them starts having premarital sex and they're, they come and they tell me, not like an accident happened, but they want to admit that to me and they want help and advice on how to handle that.

00:40:33.080 That's a scary thing to admit.

00:40:34.380 Or what if they get in trouble for, I don't know, God forbid, drug driving, something terrible where it's like, your instinct would definitely be to offer some judgment, you know, some, we need to go over the family values again.

00:40:47.020 But you also want to be, make them comfortable coming to you, especially in those potentially dangerous situations.

00:40:54.560 Okay, well, the sex talk should be happening by the time they're five and you go through the pros and cons of, gosh, sex really feels good.

00:41:06.120 However, when it doesn't have a context of love, commitment, trust, you know, it's going to be painful at some point.

00:41:15.960 So, they're getting the philosophical points at a very young age and you just keep driving with it.

00:41:23.460 Now, eventually, they will make a choice and I've had young women call and they decided to do it anyway and then realized it didn't add anything wonderful to their lives.

00:41:35.420 And so, then they had to discuss feeling guilty and shamed and all of that and I tried to erase that part and you had a wonderful revelation of a value that's going to benefit you for the rest of your life and make you understand that certain things are special.

00:41:50.040 I remember I was in New York City one time.

00:41:52.320 Frankly, I'm always stunned when somebody walks up and knows who I am.

00:41:55.820 I'm always surprised.

00:41:56.820 I don't know why I have that problem, but she ran up to me and she was not happy and she said, I don't like your position on, you know, shacking up.

00:42:07.920 You know, it's a commitment.

00:42:09.880 You know, no, it's not.

00:42:11.520 And so, instead of going into a whole lecture about that, I said, okay, imagine this.

00:42:15.700 You have this beautiful wedding and you're wearing a beautiful white dress and you actually earned it and after the party and all the wonderful loving things people say, you go to the place you're going to stay and he picks you up, holds you in his arms.

00:42:32.860 And for the first time, there's something special about you having combined lives and he carries you over the threshold, which is a promise of always taking care of you and loving you and being there for you.

00:42:46.660 And I said, you really want to miss that?

00:42:50.200 And I kept walking.

00:42:51.200 So, the way I try to handle these things is make them reflect on what they give up to say, I can do that.

00:43:01.340 It doesn't matter.

00:43:03.160 I try to show them what they would miss.

00:43:06.940 I like that.

00:43:08.360 This is like when I stole from Kmart when I was 12 and my best friend Kelly McGinnis and I got dragged down there by my dad.

00:43:16.480 And we had to confess our crime and give our cheap plastics, big star earrings back to the man in the brown leisure suit who then walked us through exactly what would happen if we had gotten caught and how he sees it happen all the time to young girls and put the fear of God into both of us.

00:43:33.940 And, of course, there was no stealing ever again.

00:43:36.780 I mean, I got it because he didn't just tell us we were bad people.

00:43:39.620 He just walked us through exactly what would have happened if we had been caught.

00:43:42.840 It was terrifying.

00:43:43.520 Well, children in particular don't think past the moment's urge.

00:43:48.380 So, if you give them scenarios like he gave to you, then when that moment of an urge happens, the bigger picture suddenly comes into view also.

00:43:59.720 Mm-hmm.

00:44:00.760 I don't think she'll mind me telling you this, but last time my friend Melissa Francis called in.

00:44:04.940 Remember when you were on?

00:44:06.020 Oh, yes.

00:44:06.760 I read her book.

00:44:08.060 Oh, that's nice.

00:44:09.200 Oh, good.

00:44:09.500 That's awesome.

00:44:09.920 She's going to love that.

00:44:10.700 Well, she's got three great kids and the youngest is a little girl.

00:44:14.720 And we were talking about this subject and life lessons with kids.

00:44:18.960 And apparently her daughter was in class, she's six or seven, and there was a little girl who had made a ghost around a pencil.

00:44:26.380 And all the little kids thought it was really cool and they wanted to learn how to do that.

00:44:29.400 But class was ending, school was ending, so the teacher said, you're going to have to make it at home.

00:44:34.440 It's time to go home now.

00:44:36.060 And Melissa's daughter kind of inched to the back of the class and sidled up to this girl and had her own pencil and said, show me how to do it.

00:44:45.700 And within moments was almost done with it.

00:44:48.360 And the teacher turned to her and said, Gemma, I said, you can only make this at home.

00:44:54.280 It's time to go.

00:44:55.220 And she looked at the teacher and said, I did make this at home.

00:45:01.480 Oh, really?

00:45:04.000 Really?

00:45:05.520 Went to home and riced back to class?

00:45:08.040 Right.

00:45:08.900 It's amazing.

00:45:09.720 It's so great.

00:45:10.280 Like the little kids, they don't realize how obvious the lies are.

00:45:13.840 Yeah, that's funny.

00:45:16.060 I loved it because Melissa was telling me that later she sat with her and she's like, what made you lie?

00:45:20.560 You know, and the daughter was like, I was scared I was going to get in trouble.

00:45:23.520 And, you know, she explained to her that's a natural instinct.

00:45:25.960 But it's so much better to just make a mistake and then own it than to compound it by then lying.

00:45:33.580 Anyway, I love that because it's like, yes, for sure I did.

00:45:37.380 OK.

00:45:38.200 All right.

00:45:40.280 I believe every word of it.

00:45:41.780 All right.

00:45:41.980 So now we're going to be getting a whole lot more of you next week.

00:45:44.180 I will be off the weekend after Thanksgiving.

00:45:49.060 You will be getting ready for the Dr. Laura 48 hour marathon on Sirius XM.

00:45:54.840 Here's just a little bit of Dr. Laura getting ready, getting ready for her 48 hour marathon.

00:46:00.560 Would you look at this?

00:46:01.560 Look at this.

00:46:08.680 She's cracking eggs.

00:46:10.360 She's drinking raw eggs like Rocky.

00:46:11.940 Protein powder.

00:46:18.140 Push-ups.

00:46:22.320 Collapse.

00:46:23.520 Jump rope.

00:46:30.400 Oh, my God.

00:46:31.160 You look amazing.

00:46:31.980 She's punching the punching bag.

00:46:33.600 All right.

00:46:33.780 So.

00:46:41.840 Amazing.

00:46:42.440 So you're not physically going to be in the studio, but you will be on 48 hours the weekend.

00:46:48.140 Right.

00:46:48.980 Right.

00:46:49.940 Good.

00:46:50.380 So people can listen to Dr. Laura.

00:46:52.540 And we put the calls together.

00:46:54.460 I'm sorry.

00:46:55.060 Go ahead.

00:46:55.500 No, no.

00:46:55.720 Go ahead.

00:46:55.960 In groups of subjects like the right thing to do, how to deal with your in-laws, whatever

00:47:01.760 it is, sex.

00:47:03.140 And so we put a whole bunch together for an hour and then we have all these different hours

00:47:07.240 and some of the most pithy of calls.

00:47:12.580 I like this because I know that you're not a fan of rushing out on Black Friday to do all

00:47:16.600 the shopping, spend time with your family, put on a fire and listen to some Dr. Laura.

00:47:22.680 You'll be the better person for it and do the right thing, she says.

00:47:26.100 Great to see you.

00:47:27.020 Great to talk to you.

00:47:27.780 Thanks for coming on.

00:47:29.460 Oh, it's my pleasure.

00:47:30.760 You're going to return the favor and come on mine again?

00:47:33.640 Any time.

00:47:34.700 It would be my honor.

00:47:35.400 You got it.

00:47:36.240 My people will talk to your people.

00:47:38.400 It's done.

00:47:39.300 Happy Thanksgiving.

00:47:41.020 Happy Thanksgiving.

00:47:42.180 Hugs to your family.

00:47:43.580 Thank you.

00:47:44.920 Oh, yay.

00:47:45.680 That was great.

00:47:46.420 That's what I needed on my birthday.

00:47:48.060 Okay.

00:47:48.580 Don't forget, folks, you can find The Megyn Kelly Show live on Sirius XM Triumph Channel

00:47:52.300 111.

00:47:53.060 It's a very nice neighborhood.

00:47:54.640 Dr. Laura's here and Glenn Beck is here and Dave Ramsey's here.

00:47:58.160 We're on every weekday noon east right before Dr. Laura and the full video show and clips

00:48:02.140 by subscribing to our YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Megyn Kelly.

00:48:05.560 Audio podcasts also available wherever you get your podcasts for free.

00:48:08.840 And I'll be sending you my American News Minute later today.

00:48:11.340 Go sign up at megynkelly.com.

00:48:16.420 Today, we have a Kelly's Court all-star panel.

00:48:22.300 I can't believe the amount of legal brainpower about to join this set.

00:48:27.100 Marsha Clark is a lawyer and New York Times bestselling author.

00:48:30.700 She is known for being the lead prosecutor in the case of The People versus O.J. Simpson.

00:48:36.920 Of course, a double murder case that would become infamous in its reach.

00:48:42.120 Also with me, Mark Garagos.

00:48:43.840 Mark is a trial lawyer and managing partner of Garagos and Garagos.

00:48:47.460 His list of some high-profile clients include people like Michael Jackson, Scott Peterson.

00:48:53.760 We could go on.

00:48:54.980 Marsha and Mark, welcome to Kelly's Court.

00:48:56.800 Well, thank you.

00:48:57.860 Hi, Megan.

00:48:58.520 Hey, happy birthday.

00:49:00.720 Thank you.

00:49:01.580 This is the greatest gift.

00:49:03.320 I love today's show.

00:49:05.020 I was just telling Marsha that it's been years since I've seen her, way too long.

00:49:09.100 And we do go way back.

00:49:10.380 So thank you.

00:49:11.400 This was a great birthday gift that you're giving back.

00:49:14.620 Yeah, that you're giving to us.

00:49:15.720 We appreciate it.

00:49:16.540 It's so nice to see Mark again.

00:49:18.100 It was like, whoop-hoo!

00:49:19.360 Yeah, because you're both California litigators.

00:49:21.120 I mean, I hadn't actually thought about it.

00:49:22.220 But yeah, you would know each other.

00:49:23.540 Well, Marsha, I think for people to say best known as OJ's prosecutor, I get it.

00:49:31.780 But Marsha was, you know, let's not, she'd blush, but she was one of the most kick-ass

00:49:37.460 prosecutors in that criminal courts building when I was coming up and was legendary, actually.

00:49:43.900 You never wanted her on your case.

00:49:45.720 I will tell you that.

00:49:46.980 Yeah, well, wasn't it, Bardo?

00:49:48.780 And likewise, I was very gifted not to have to be with you.

00:49:53.180 Oh, that's nice.

00:49:54.700 No, we talked about when Marsha came on not long ago, we did a profile on her and some

00:49:58.440 of her background.

00:49:59.080 And she was just, she was a crusher as a prosecutor.

00:50:02.100 And, you know, we dissected in great detail what happened in the OJ case.

00:50:05.940 But in any event, I'm so, like, it's perfect to have the two of you here today because it

00:50:09.940 just so happens that the cases that we have on today's docket, for the most part, involve

00:50:13.540 these very famous, not exactly celebrity trials, but the people became kind of like celebrities

00:50:20.300 or infamous.

00:50:21.800 And I should tell the audience right now, as we go into Kelly Squirt, we are awaiting

00:50:25.720 sentencing.

00:50:27.420 It should be happening right now, any second, in the Elizabeth Holmes trial.

00:50:30.640 This judge has had the case for a year to contemplate the jury's verdict.

00:50:34.420 And we expect a ruling any second now to find out that in the range of possibilities include

00:50:42.160 her attorneys are asking for no more than 18 months in prison.

00:50:45.540 This is the woman who started Theranos with the blood prick on the finger and turned out

00:50:49.780 to be a fraud.

00:50:51.580 They want 18 months.

00:50:52.880 The prosecution wants 15 years.

00:50:55.780 And an independent probation officer has recommended nine years.

00:51:00.040 And those are pretty hefty numbers.

00:51:01.520 We'll see.

00:51:02.020 OK, so we'll get back to that when we have news.

00:51:03.700 Let's start with Casey Anthony.

00:51:07.300 I got to tell you, I can't believe that they're doing this, that NBC is doing this.

00:51:11.920 It's Peacock, their online property.

00:51:15.040 This is toxic.

00:51:17.200 This is like, speaking of OJ, Marsha, this is like, if I did it, his his stupid book where

00:51:25.080 he purported to reveal if he did it, how he would have done this double murder.

00:51:29.720 This is her.

00:51:30.600 I haven't read it, but I've seen the Daily Mail reports on and the people.

00:51:33.700 Magazine reports on it.

00:51:35.180 It just seems like a bunch of new lies about why she didn't do it and somebody else is

00:51:40.300 responsible.

00:51:41.980 Yes, it's a bunch of new lies plus old lies.

00:51:44.240 None of them make any sense.

00:51:45.460 There's this preposterous setup where she talks about she was asleep with little Kaylee in

00:51:53.320 bed, taking a nap, and then she wakes up to find that Kaylee is gone.

00:51:57.760 And then her father comes in holding Kaylee, who is soaking wet and unconscious, and tells

00:52:04.220 her, don't worry.

00:52:05.860 She was in the pool and then I'll take care of this.

00:52:08.920 And what?

00:52:09.980 Are you what?

00:52:10.640 I mean, and she says, okay, I was just watching.

00:52:13.860 I thought, okay, he'll take care of this.

00:52:15.600 Really?

00:52:16.300 That's your response?

00:52:17.300 That's seeing your baby in his arms, obviously near comatose?

00:52:23.080 I don't know about you, Megan.

00:52:24.120 Oh, I think I do know about you.

00:52:25.600 If you saw somebody holding your baby, I don't care who it was in that situation, you'd be

00:52:29.640 on your feet and calling 911.

00:52:31.440 I mean, so, you know, and then it folds out from there and one thing after another.

00:52:36.460 And of course, the stuff that was documented on camera in her interactions with the police

00:52:42.040 lying repeatedly about Zanny the nanny and whether she was at work that day and then

00:52:47.320 pretending she had a job when she didn't have a job that she had to stop midway through

00:52:52.420 their interview as she's trying to walk them to her office, which she does not have.

00:52:56.420 So, I mean, it's just pathological.

00:52:58.220 So, yeah, but the one problem is you give Jose credit.

00:53:03.220 He got an acquittal in that case against the defense lawyer.

00:53:07.660 Mark, I think audience should know.

00:53:08.840 We talk about to Mark.

00:53:09.780 He's like, Scott Peterson didn't do it and Michael Jackson didn't do it.

00:53:13.700 I can read into my client's eyes.

00:53:15.580 They're like, okay, Marsha and I, more prosecutors were like, you know, when you live with them,

00:53:22.080 I mean, look, there have been clients that I've had that I've defended who I will candidly

00:53:27.260 admit, not publicly, that I know they're good for it.

00:53:30.200 I mean, you have little or no doubt because their felony is stupid.

00:53:34.760 But there are other clients who, and Scott is one of them, I'm telling you, I have never

00:53:40.240 for a moment thought since that trial that he was guilty.

00:53:44.720 That's why it's somewhat comforting that they're going to do a, that they've already reversed

00:53:51.500 the death penalty and that they have coming up.

00:53:54.160 And I believe the court is going to announce it from open court sometime in the next 60 days

00:53:59.540 on the order to show cause on the guilt phase too.

00:54:03.080 I mean, if that's a retrial, it will be the retrial of this century.

00:54:07.120 Can you believe the fact goes back to trial again?

00:54:10.220 I can't even imagine.

00:54:11.280 No, do you, would you, would you think you'd be trial counsel?

00:54:14.840 I don't think I would.

00:54:16.380 I, you know, it was almost, it's almost been 20 years.

00:54:19.240 I may have my daughter do it, but let her, let her try the case.

00:54:22.560 She was there.

00:54:23.400 And I think eight years old at the time watching, watching it's now she's practicing in New

00:54:27.740 York, but she's licensed there.

00:54:29.420 So maybe I'll have her do it.

00:54:31.080 Well, if we get that ruling, we'll, that'll definitely be on the docket of Kelly's firm.

00:54:34.300 We'll take it up.

00:54:34.880 So she seems to be contending in this interview.

00:54:37.260 Again, this is secondhand reporting.

00:54:38.720 Haven't seen it yet myself, but she seems to be claiming, as you point out, Marsha, that

00:54:43.380 she, that the father came to her with the baby wet from the pool, maybe in distress from

00:54:51.160 having drowned or almost drowned.

00:54:53.240 And that he, he basically said to Casey Anthony, okay, you leave, you know, I'll take care of

00:54:59.300 it.

00:54:59.600 So she left and that he didn't let her say anything about it.

00:55:04.760 And he instruct, he commanded her to act normal.

00:55:08.100 This is her retroactive explanation.

00:55:10.960 I think for all the dancing at the bars.

00:55:14.280 While this woman knew her daughter was dead.

00:55:17.760 And this is why every person in America hates her guts.

00:55:20.940 We think she killed her kid.

00:55:22.480 And then she danced on stage at like sexy mama contests and had absolutely no remorse.

00:55:27.720 So now she's trying to say, I did it because my dad made me.

00:55:31.700 And she completely demonizes this father who Jose Baez without foundation accused of being

00:55:38.820 the killer in his opening statement and also made an allegation about sexual assault that

00:55:43.380 was never sustained.

00:55:44.420 And she renews that here against him and her brother, both of whom have absolutely denied

00:55:49.400 these outrageous slanders.

00:55:51.460 Yeah.

00:55:53.860 And she never took the stand.

00:55:55.660 So realize that we're talking about statements she's making that are uncross examined and never

00:56:00.220 challenged in real time.

00:56:02.280 So they do say that she was not given any editorial power in terms of this Peacock special.

00:56:09.540 Fine.

00:56:10.140 That's good.

00:56:10.960 That's at a minimum.

00:56:11.880 You shouldn't do that.

00:56:13.140 But that doesn't mean that she or her statements are being challenged in the manner, for example,

00:56:17.140 Mark Garagos would challenge them in court or I would.

00:56:19.720 You know, there's no substitute for the machine of cross-examination.

00:56:24.460 And she's never been cross-examined.

00:56:25.980 So, you know, imagine how she would hold up.

00:56:28.640 Megan, you can shred her.

00:56:30.100 And it only stands up for even one second for the moments that she's speaking until you

00:56:35.780 can stop and think about what she's saying.

00:56:37.740 And then it falls apart immediately.

00:56:39.960 And, you know, we've proven seven ways from Sunday how guilty she really is.

00:56:44.740 So I'm not sure why Peacock went for this, honestly.

00:56:49.820 Maybe it'll show something new.

00:56:51.220 I've not seen it myself, I must say.

00:56:53.880 I have read Jeff.

00:56:56.340 Oh, my goodness.

00:56:57.540 I just blanked on Jeff's last name.

00:56:59.900 The prosecutor who handled her case.

00:57:03.080 Jeff?

00:57:04.300 I don't have it.

00:57:05.020 Oh, man.

00:57:06.220 I'll get there.

00:57:07.380 I remember.

00:57:09.240 I hate when this happens.

00:57:10.640 Mark, help me.

00:57:11.780 But he wrote, too.

00:57:14.060 So, I mean, when you put it all together and then we reinvestigated the case for the show

00:57:17.600 I did for A&E, Marsha Clark Investigates.

00:57:21.160 And it was revelatory.

00:57:23.200 We came up with even more evidence against her, if you can imagine that.

00:57:27.580 So it's just one thing after you.

00:57:29.860 I want to ask you about that.

00:57:31.160 I want you to tell us about that.

00:57:32.980 But can I ask you, Mark, so just to follow up on where we were on the new revelations

00:57:37.000 that she allegedly says in this piece, she claims, as we pointed out, her dad, George

00:57:43.260 Anthony, was allegedly standing there holding little Kaylee.

00:57:46.100 He was standing there with her.

00:57:47.280 She was soaking wet.

00:57:48.320 He handed her to me.

00:57:49.240 She said it was my fault, that I caused it.

00:57:51.400 But he didn't rush to call 911.

00:57:52.820 He wasn't trying to resuscitate her.

00:57:54.460 I collapsed with her in my arms.

00:57:55.600 She was heavy and she was cold.

00:57:57.520 He takes her from me.

00:57:58.640 He immediately softens his tone and says, it's going to be OK.

00:58:01.660 I wanted to believe him.

00:58:02.920 He took her from me and he went away.

00:58:04.780 Then she went to stay with her boyfriend, Tony Lazaro, but didn't tell anyone what happened.

00:58:08.900 She says she wasn't under the impression that Kaylee was dead.

00:58:13.340 She was under the impression that her child was alive.

00:58:16.840 Oh, really?

00:58:17.340 That's just an impression you didn't think it was important to follow up on?

00:58:19.780 My father kept telling me she was OK.

00:58:22.660 I had to keep following his instructions.

00:58:24.420 He told me what to do.

00:58:26.280 I tried to act as normal as I could.

00:58:29.120 And she goes on to say this.

00:58:32.000 When she was young, when she was young, she claimed he would put a pillow over my face and smother me to knock me out.

00:58:41.020 That happened several times.

00:58:42.880 I'm sure there were times when I was incapacitated as a child where my body was limp and lifeless.

00:58:48.400 That's really OK.

00:58:51.120 So he he knew just how much to smother you to where you'd come back and not actually die.

00:58:56.700 He was a he was a master suffocator.

00:58:58.720 Your dad.

00:58:59.460 I mean, this is this relates to the research you did on your show, Martha, about what was on Marsha, about what was on her computer.

00:59:07.780 Because some of that one of the things that was Googled on her computer was something like suffocation and chloroform and how to use it and all these damning terms for somebody who has a dead child coming in their family.

00:59:21.720 So tell us what you found.

00:59:23.800 Wait, so Cindy, in the early searches that were done by the police when the case first broke and people were not nearly as savvy, I want to say, in terms of being able to search histories and not as savvy about computer lore.

00:59:37.700 So the initial search for chloroform, they touted to be eight times that she searched for that turned out to be once.

00:59:44.540 And then Cindy, the mother, took responsibility for that.

00:59:48.080 She's a nurse.

00:59:48.860 OK, fine.

00:59:49.400 However, then what they didn't discover is that if they had used both search engines, both Mozilla and Firefox and something else, can't remember which ones, but there were two.

01:00:00.560 They only searched one.

01:00:02.840 And when it was two that were searched later after the trial was over, it was discovered that she had done searches for foolproof suffocation and other related topics that at a time when at a time when only she was in the house.

01:00:18.040 Now, Jose Baez wrote about those.

01:00:20.160 His computer expert did come up with that information.

01:00:22.740 Of course, he doesn't have to turn it over to the prosecution.

01:00:25.660 He claimed that the timing of those searches for foolproof suffocation occurred, were done by George, the father, as a means of suicide.

01:00:36.060 What we determined, actually, there was a glitch in the software.

01:00:39.100 The true time was at a point when George was at work and when Casey Anthony was the only one in the house.

01:00:45.680 So she did all those searches for foolproof suffocation.

01:00:49.020 On top of that, it was also shown that after her first interview with the police, when they first started accusing her, they dropped her back at home.

01:00:56.540 And immediately that that history, that search history is deleted at, again, point in time when she's home alone.

01:01:04.220 And who else would even have known to delete that search history except the person who conducted that search history?

01:01:11.320 So, you know, I mean, all of these things just add up.

01:01:14.420 And these are not squishy eyewitness kind of my opinion.

01:01:19.260 She looked like this or she acted like that.

01:01:21.160 This is hard fact.

01:01:22.200 These are data searches that she made and she alone made and then deleted.

01:01:27.200 So, I mean.

01:01:29.040 Most of that stuff didn't come into trial.

01:01:31.840 Didn't.

01:01:32.480 No.

01:01:32.860 He put it in his book.

01:01:34.860 Jose put it in his book.

01:01:38.040 The interesting thing that I always find is the she didn't or he didn't act right evidence.

01:01:45.040 Marcia calls it squishy.

01:01:46.480 It drives me crazy because I don't know that there's ever a playbook of how anybody's supposed to act when you're accused of some heinous crime.

01:01:54.780 But I will agree with you that data and searches can be damning.

01:01:59.800 I mean, I've sat in courtrooms where you have to try to explain why a search was done at a certain time.

01:02:06.360 And it's amazing to me, I don't know if Marcia's got the same experience, but it's always stunning at how little these so-called experts know about what they're doing in this area.

01:02:18.860 I mean, you just ask them a couple of questions and it becomes apparent that they haven't thought of or done the apparent search and they don't know.

01:02:27.400 The timing is incredible because I've asked countless times to witnesses on the stand, what time did this take place?

01:02:35.180 And they can't really answer.

01:02:36.500 They just they kind of come up with something.

01:02:39.740 They may be a time stamp, but they don't know if it's actually actually happened at that time.

01:02:45.200 And those kinds of things I think are vital.

01:02:47.000 Well, as Marcia says, you can make sure she makes a good case for stuff that they never found or that they didn't know what they had at the time.

01:02:54.800 I really wonder whether people are going to watch this, because in the same way that there was backlash against OJ, when they had to pull that book, that book was pulled by Judith Regan because there was so much outcry.

01:03:06.900 I remember because I was at Fox at the time and it was being published by Harper owned by the Murdochs.

01:03:10.680 I wonder what's going to happen is there's already been backlash to Peacock.

01:03:15.920 It's NBC for doing this.

01:03:17.900 I'll give you a look at the trailer.

01:03:19.680 And then I would like to ask you if you think, as I know, Nancy Grace has said she refused to participate in this documentary because she 100 percent believes this woman killed her child and she's not going to try to sanitize any of it.

01:03:30.760 But here's a look at the trailer.

01:03:34.400 911 with your emergency.

01:03:35.880 My daughter's been missing for the last 30 months.

01:03:38.200 It's happening, the most closely watched case, certainly since OJ Simpson.

01:03:46.920 As to the charge of first degree murder, not guilty.

01:03:51.240 Casey's never told her story.

01:03:52.700 Did she murder her daughter?

01:03:54.560 Casey, interview?

01:03:55.760 Marker?

01:03:59.120 What do you think my question is going to be?

01:04:00.700 Why did I wait 31 days to call 911?

01:04:05.040 Did you do everything in your power to protect your daughter?

01:04:07.760 The public thought that Casey didn't want to be a mother.

01:04:10.680 The lies make you think that she did murder this child.

01:04:13.880 It's not the Casey that I knew.

01:04:16.180 She loved that child.

01:04:19.020 Let her grow.

01:04:20.200 And lie.

01:04:25.280 But no one asked why.

01:04:27.100 Oh, my God, I'm sorry, but let me tell you something.

01:04:33.020 We did some Casey Anthony stories over the course of my time at NBC and Fox.

01:04:38.100 And can I tell you, because people love crime, as you guys know, they love crime stories.

01:04:42.660 They love crime podcasts.

01:04:44.780 This case numbers would fall every time you touched it.

01:04:48.900 People are angry.

01:04:51.060 And I remember we joked behind the scene.

01:04:52.940 We're like, OK, so murderer gets convicted.

01:04:56.280 The numbers go up.

01:04:57.240 People want to watch that.

01:04:58.380 Murderer gets away with it.

01:04:59.860 People are like, hell no.

01:05:01.540 Especially if the victim is a little girl, a little child.

01:05:05.980 So I don't know.

01:05:07.900 What do you guys think?

01:05:10.200 Yeah, I didn't know about the numbers.

01:05:11.520 I think that's actually encouraging.

01:05:13.100 I'm happy to hear, particularly about Casey Anthony.

01:05:15.920 I am.

01:05:16.680 You know, it's enough.

01:05:17.460 We heard the trial.

01:05:18.540 We heard all the commentary.

01:05:20.020 We know what her story is.

01:05:21.460 It didn't get any better.

01:05:23.120 It gets worse, in my opinion.

01:05:24.880 It gets much less believable.

01:05:26.880 So that people would say, enough of your pathological lying.

01:05:30.240 I don't know why you're getting a platform for this.

01:05:32.260 I actually don't know why she's getting a platform for this.

01:05:34.940 And it would be, to me, good news if people just didn't tune in.

01:05:40.260 What do you think, Mark?

01:05:41.080 You guys are a lot more optimistic about human nature than I am.

01:05:45.640 My guess is that it's going to do very well.

01:05:49.260 Well, I don't know.

01:05:50.100 I mean, I admit the trailer looks good.

01:05:52.360 But I think...

01:05:53.060 I agree.

01:05:54.120 It draws you in.

01:05:55.180 So it's a compelling story.

01:05:57.940 I mean, any way you look at it, it's a compelling story.

01:06:00.240 Just listening to Marcia rattle off facts that weren't in the trial is compelling.

01:06:05.800 Why wouldn't somebody want to hear that?

01:06:08.020 Marcia should have some experience on that.

01:06:09.900 Did A&E do well with yours on the numbers, or do you not know?

01:06:14.860 No, pretty well.

01:06:16.580 But I have to say, it was an entire series based on, we're going to take another look

01:06:21.240 at these big cases.

01:06:22.420 So it was, you know, it was promising that.

01:06:25.720 It's a different story when you have the defendant just amplifying the same stuff.

01:06:30.320 I'm going to be nice, that you said before, that you know.

01:06:34.380 Now, I'm not saying, Mark, that you're wrong.

01:06:36.180 I think you may be right that, you know, it's going to do very well and people out of curiosity

01:06:40.460 can't resist.

01:06:41.640 I'm just hopeful that they wouldn't be.

01:06:44.880 But, you know, I'm probably doomed to disappointment.

01:06:47.200 Well, I can't turn on Netflix and not see Dahmer doing apparently number one constantly.

01:06:53.900 And, you know, I suppose maybe fitting in with Megan that he was convicted or apprehended

01:06:59.220 and that's that.

01:07:00.600 People are fascinated with it.

01:07:02.240 Maybe the, the, uh, an acquittal does not do you any good in the court of public opinion.

01:07:07.720 I'm not like, I have no problem with a journalist interviewing somebody who's gotten away with

01:07:11.800 murder.

01:07:12.160 I really don't like that's, it's kind of part of what we do, but I do, I do hope it doesn't

01:07:17.580 do very well.

01:07:18.340 I hope the American public says we don't need to hear more of her lies.

01:07:21.740 Like we've, she's gotten her lies out for years now through her attorneys and others.

01:07:25.500 We know that she's trying to blame it on her dad.

01:07:27.940 Nothing makes sense in blaming it on the dad.

01:07:30.660 Nothing about her behavior makes sense.

01:07:32.820 And now she's trying to extrapolate into, oh, he, he abused me for years when I was,

01:07:37.540 when I was young and therefore he had total control over me.

01:07:39.980 And he was such a liar.

01:07:41.500 He made me into a pathological liar.

01:07:43.560 So all that stuff, taking the people on the wild goose chase through universal studios,

01:07:48.680 through this apartment complex, looking for a nanny who didn't exist.

01:07:52.260 That was all just my pathology that was passed down from my father.

01:07:55.300 Oh, tell it to Oprah.

01:07:57.140 Okay.

01:07:58.000 Um, let's move on.

01:07:59.180 Can I just stop one second?

01:08:00.400 You make a very, you raise a really important point that I don't think should get lost.

01:08:04.680 And a hundred percent, I agree with you.

01:08:06.700 The journalist has the right, in fact, the duty to report.

01:08:10.260 And, and if a defendant who I want to celebrate a case like this wants to make a statement,

01:08:14.740 um, the right to have that kind of thing, uh, put out, you know, to present it and to interview

01:08:21.100 her.

01:08:21.480 Yes, absolutely.

01:08:23.260 He has the right to do that.

01:08:24.520 Or she has the right to do that.

01:08:25.940 It's a question of, we're talking about that.

01:08:28.080 That's separate from whether you should watch this kind of thing.

01:08:31.600 You know, you have a right to make that choice.

01:08:33.700 That's the choice we're talking about.

01:08:35.380 Please choose not to.

01:08:36.500 It's different than saying, shut this down and don't let it out.

01:08:39.380 It should be let out.

01:08:40.720 Yep.

01:08:41.220 I agree.

01:08:41.820 I totally agree.

01:08:42.660 And I actually will not watch it.

01:08:44.020 Uh, I have no interest in even reading.

01:08:46.280 I don't know if you guys felt the same, but even reading her stupid lies, my blood was

01:08:49.800 starting to boil.

01:08:50.340 Like this is such, this is an absurd defense.

01:08:54.320 And I have to be honest, I wasn't too impressed by that reporter doing the questioning and

01:08:58.460 that, in that tease and that trailer, um, and even her description of, right.

01:09:03.360 I don't heard her description of the show makes it sound like she's in Casey's camp.

01:09:06.980 I mean, I could be misreading it, but she makes it sound like, oh, you're going to look

01:09:10.400 at her in a brand new way.

01:09:11.520 I'm like, I doubt it.

01:09:12.660 I have absolutely no doubt.

01:09:14.080 I will not be looking at her in a new, um, okay, let's move on to John Bonnet.

01:09:18.020 Cause this one's actually fascinating.

01:09:20.780 What are they doing?

01:09:22.260 They're, they're now they're, they're, it's like a new unit, like a cold case unit, the

01:09:30.120 cold case review team that is now going to be taking on this case.

01:09:35.220 And they're going to speaking, be speaking with private DNA labs.

01:09:38.700 The Boulder police department, uh, is going to consult on this.

01:09:41.380 So all three of these, the cold case review team, the Boulder police and private DNA labs

01:09:46.120 taking a fresh look at the John Bonnet Ramsey case.

01:09:49.800 Why Mark?

01:09:51.100 Well, because I think that clearly the, uh, the advancements in DNA that have happened

01:09:56.060 since this occurred, uh, it's worth another look.

01:09:59.400 I don't see any reason in the world not to, I mean, it's, it's another case that captivated

01:10:04.120 America clearly.

01:10:05.400 And, um, this one, there's been so much misinformation surrounding it and accusations surrounding it

01:10:13.520 that, uh, I, you may find something this time around.

01:10:16.280 I mean, I've seen some startling things in the DNA field in the last couple of years.

01:10:21.660 So it would not surprise me in the least if they found something that they hadn't been

01:10:26.440 able to, uh, scientifically deal with before.

01:10:29.400 This case, Marsha, for our viewers, just a refresher happened in 1996.

01:10:34.960 This little girl, obviously very beautiful, was a pageant queen.

01:10:39.340 Um, the parents woke up.

01:10:41.900 Was it actually Christmas morning?

01:10:43.620 It was right around Christmas, December 26th.

01:10:47.060 My team is telling me and, uh, couldn't find John Bonnet.

01:10:49.960 So they look all around the house.

01:10:51.400 They find a ransom note, a weird ransom note demanding $118,000 for, uh, her safe return.

01:10:59.920 And, uh, they called the police.

01:11:01.460 The police went over there.

01:11:02.260 They sat with the parents.

01:11:03.100 They searched the house, didn't find anything.

01:11:05.120 And then the police said, why don't you, uh, to the dad, take a closer look, see if anything

01:11:10.160 looks out of order in the house.

01:11:11.600 And he found John Bonnet downstairs dead on a blanket, uh, in like long johns.

01:11:19.240 And, um, she, it did appear that there was evidence, some evidence of a sexual assault,

01:11:25.240 um, though no semen was found.

01:11:27.800 So that's relevant on the DNA front, but she had been strangled by a garage, right?

01:11:31.600 Which is, I think it's just any sort of rope or, uh, strangulation device.

01:11:37.000 And, um, that in particular, Marsha, I think is what they're looking at now for potential

01:11:41.680 DNA testing.

01:11:42.800 Oh my God, it's almost 30 years now since that case happened.

01:11:46.300 I mean, did think of what's happened in the DNA field.

01:11:49.260 Right.

01:11:49.740 So now we have touch DNA, which is back in my day, you basically had to have huge droplets

01:11:56.140 of blood that contained high quality DNA.

01:11:59.180 And the only form of testing was restriction fragment length polymorphism, affectionately

01:12:04.860 known as RFLP, which no one uses anymore.

01:12:07.200 The testing now is all PCR based, um, polymerase chain reaction, which means that they amplify

01:12:12.860 tiny, tiny amounts of DNA in order to produce a result.

01:12:16.540 And the fears that they had raised before about that form of testing causing contamination

01:12:22.800 or amplifying contamination have now been pretty much laid to rest.

01:12:26.700 And so, uh, you can now, it's been advanced to the point where they can literally lift enough

01:12:32.380 DNA if you touch a surface, not always, but if you touch a surface, it's possible to find

01:12:38.300 enough DNA to test.

01:12:40.480 And that means that with the sensitivity of the DNA testing today, they may come up with

01:12:45.460 something better and they may come up with results that they couldn't come up with before.

01:12:49.900 However, the fear I have is that the amounts of DNA that they have are so small, they will

01:12:55.600 get consumed in the testing and you will not be able to go back and test when we have even

01:13:00.340 better DNA methods of analysis, which we certainly will because they keep advancing like every five

01:13:06.740 seconds.

01:13:07.080 It feels like they really are.

01:13:08.380 The field is burgeoning.

01:13:10.060 So, you know, there's a danger in going after these, the, whatever samples they have right

01:13:15.660 now with the tools we have today, knowing that we may have better ones tomorrow.

01:13:20.060 So I hope that they're judicious about this.

01:13:22.540 I'm glad they're retesting.

01:13:23.940 There have been so many stories circulating about this case that it would be lovely.

01:13:28.980 It would be a relief to finally get some definitive answers here.

01:13:33.000 Right.

01:13:34.380 You know, the, the dad in this case, Mark, he did not want this to happen.

01:13:39.040 He, he thinks this is kind of a cover to give it to this cold case review group.

01:13:43.660 I think he just wanted to work with private DNA labs.

01:13:46.480 He doesn't think that the state has done a good job investigating this case and he doesn't

01:13:51.660 trust them to take it from here.

01:13:54.160 I mean, here we are 25 years later, they haven't solved it.

01:13:56.900 So I get that too.

01:13:58.560 He, he basically said, this sounds like more of the same.

01:14:00.980 That's not what we need.

01:14:01.880 It's a good effort by their PR department.

01:14:04.680 That's what's happening here.

01:14:06.380 I don't disagree with him.

01:14:07.740 I mean, he was savage, um, and, uh, unfairly so during the entire thing.

01:14:12.840 I mean, first of all, finding your daughter has got to be the most unimaginable, uh, event,

01:14:18.440 uh, and then have being accused and then watching your wife, her mother, but kind of die from

01:14:25.540 the, uh, the, uh, the accusations and the heartache, uh, and, uh, in a slow moving car wreck of an

01:14:32.240 investigation.

01:14:32.960 I mean, it, uh, for those who aren't familiar with it, I mean, the, uh, the investigation

01:14:38.380 itself was, was bungled in so many different ways and so many different people, uh, were

01:14:44.680 playing politics with it that I can imagine that, uh, the father is angry or at least very,

01:14:51.460 um, suspicious of the motivations at this point.

01:14:55.060 Mm-hmm.

01:14:56.020 You remember?

01:14:56.500 So yeah, Patsy Ramsey died after 10 years.

01:14:59.380 JonBenet was killed in 96.

01:15:00.940 She died 10 years later, the mom.

01:15:03.060 And then he, for a while, was dating Beth Holloway.

01:15:06.040 Remember that?

01:15:06.840 Natalie Holloway's mom.

01:15:08.160 It was like a crazy, it was a crazy cable news event.

01:15:13.080 Cause it was like, wait a minute, Greta Van Susteren show is like going crazy.

01:15:16.420 It was like all of her, her biggest stories coming together at once.

01:15:19.900 Um, they, they did find DNA back at the time.

01:15:23.860 Well, not at the time, but in 2008, uh, new DNA testing technology had been developed and

01:15:30.060 that allowed them to test dead skin cells.

01:15:33.420 Like you said, Marsha, I think this is touch DNA on objects at crime scenes.

01:15:37.180 And they tested it and they came back on a pajama legging with a positive for at least

01:15:42.740 one unknown male's DNA, possibly even two.

01:15:48.100 It was after that, that the DA wrote a letter to Jon Ramsey stating that her office does not

01:15:52.060 consider him or his wife, Patsy, or anyone in their immediate family to be under suspicion

01:15:56.220 at all anymore for the death of JonBenet.

01:15:59.040 And so now they're looking at, like I say, maybe there was that touch DNA on the garrot,

01:16:04.960 but we don't know.

01:16:06.040 Maybe, maybe there wasn't, maybe the guy was wearing gloves.

01:16:09.060 We, you know, and on the other hand though, maybe, maybe some guy did leave DNA and maybe

01:16:14.500 that guy's in the system now where he wasn't in 2008.

01:16:18.200 Which, by the way, happens with great frequency as well.

01:16:21.340 That's not very rare.

01:16:22.900 And remember, as an interlude here at one point, there was also the man who was brought, extradited

01:16:29.240 from overseas after he confessed to this.

01:16:31.960 And for a while, they, yeah, they, they, uh, the, the, the rumors were rampant that they'd

01:16:38.280 finally solved it.

01:16:39.300 And turned out he was just nuts.

01:16:41.080 He was, he was not, he was Carr.

01:16:43.040 Wasn't that his name?

01:16:43.760 Les, John Carr or something?

01:16:45.340 Yeah.

01:16:45.640 I remember that, Mark.

01:16:46.580 Yeah.

01:16:46.780 That was that when, and it was really funny when that came out and he, he surfaced.

01:16:50.860 I thought, this is a crank.

01:16:51.920 This is one of those.

01:16:52.920 They bought it.

01:16:53.860 Frequently.

01:16:54.420 And they bought it.

01:16:55.220 They bought it.

01:16:55.680 That's called desperation.

01:16:56.820 The thing that worries me about the DNA analysis in this case, the evidentiary issues is that

01:17:02.860 it was such a badly handled crime scene.

01:17:05.520 Imagine that the police go into search and never go to the basement.

01:17:10.220 And that's why the father wound up finding her body is because they didn't even bother

01:17:14.940 to go to the basement to search.

01:17:16.740 And then they start to remove things from her body, the garage, et cetera.

01:17:20.380 And they're moving things around.

01:17:21.720 A blanket is wrapped around at one point.

01:17:24.260 All kinds.

01:17:24.640 I mean, it's just, it's a mess.

01:17:26.060 I can imagine that even if they do finally zero in on a suspect, it's going to be very

01:17:32.220 hard to convict given the way it was handled.

01:17:35.300 So I, you know, it's just a tough case.

01:17:38.120 The Boulder police did not distinguish themselves in this case.

01:17:41.040 I mean, the fact that it hasn't been solved is an embarrassment.

01:17:44.000 And now there's this other guy.

01:17:46.300 This is, I hadn't heard this, but there's another dad in the neighborhood whose daughter

01:17:50.400 was attacked and sexually assaulted less than two miles from the Ramsey home.

01:17:55.320 The very next year, uh, his daughter was 12 and he's saying that he went to the police

01:18:02.340 and said that these things may be connected.

01:18:04.720 Here's what happened.

01:18:05.480 Uh, and that the police blew him off and the, the, uh, Boulder police have decided not to

01:18:11.860 comment on that allegation that they, they dropped the ball.

01:18:14.640 But he says a 12 year old girl, his daughter, uh, was, she attended the same, same dance

01:18:19.660 school as John Benet Ramsey.

01:18:21.600 And that one night the, the mother had tucked the little girl in.

01:18:25.580 I think the dad was out of town or something, but the mother had tucked a little girl in.

01:18:28.280 The mother went back to her room.

01:18:29.520 The mother heard some sort of a scuffle and went back to the daughter's room to find this

01:18:34.100 man in there, this intruder.

01:18:35.720 And he had sexually assaulted the daughter and he jumped out the window and ran away.

01:18:40.580 And she, she could remember his description.

01:18:42.780 He was never caught.

01:18:43.840 However, shadowy figure, a lot of similarities between these two cases and given the proximity

01:18:50.400 between the two, you know, homes and so on.

01:18:53.260 It's, I don't know.

01:18:54.820 I mean, to me, that makes some sense.

01:18:58.200 I don't know about the $118,000 ransom note.

01:19:00.760 That was always very suspicious, but what, what do you glean from all that, that the, that

01:19:04.700 they dropped the ball or that this is just another person trying to get in the news.

01:19:07.940 What do you think?

01:19:09.380 I mean, I do think it's worth looking into.

01:19:11.320 You don't just dismiss it.

01:19:12.780 It, you know, it may very well not be connected.

01:19:15.080 And as you bring up, I mean, the ransom note kind of takes the John V. Ramsey case a little

01:19:20.080 out of the normal loop, normal, if there is such a thing of a kind of attack that they

01:19:25.360 are, this other person is describing.

01:19:27.380 So there are some kind of glaring inconsistencies too.

01:19:30.520 That said, look at it, talk to them.

01:19:33.240 What I, what I found remarkable in that story is that they didn't even try for a composite

01:19:37.620 sketch with the mother who, who did get a glimpse.

01:19:40.700 I mean, pay attention to it at least.

01:19:43.100 And, and then if you must distinguish it and say, really, there is no connection, fine,

01:19:46.900 but it doesn't appear from what I've read.

01:19:49.080 And I, it could very well be that I'm just not informed enough, but it doesn't appear

01:19:53.100 that they really gave it enough attention.

01:19:55.840 And he gave it a pretty short trip.

01:19:57.900 Yeah.

01:19:58.200 The dad is saying the dad of the other girl is saying, uh, they were completely uninterested

01:20:02.180 in this.

01:20:02.600 They didn't care about my daughter's case.

01:20:03.940 They didn't even really seem to care about the John V. Ramsey case.

01:20:06.320 I would contact them regularly asking if they'd looked into this or that.

01:20:09.320 And they just lied to me.

01:20:10.100 We asked to see some mugshots of sex offenders in the area to see if my wife or my daughter

01:20:14.780 could recognize somebody.

01:20:15.880 We were told that wouldn't be any good.

01:20:18.280 Asked them to send someone over to make a composite sketch.

01:20:20.920 Nope.

01:20:21.340 They refused.

01:20:22.620 Even the Denver PD offered to help the Boulder PD, but they said they had it covered.

01:20:26.320 They knew what they were doing, but they would not hear anything about this being linked

01:20:30.480 to John Benet.

01:20:31.500 The level of incompetence was pretty impressive.

01:20:33.980 Again, the spokesperson for Boulder PD declines to comment on the claims of disinterest.

01:20:38.080 Wow.

01:20:39.040 Well, let's hope they do it right with these private DNA labs.

01:20:42.600 I agree that that's if they're going to do anything, they can't waste it.

01:20:45.640 They have to have the best of the best of the best.

01:20:48.700 Uh, even if they can't prosecute at this point, it would just be good for the, for the country

01:20:53.520 and for the family to have an answer.

01:20:55.520 All right.

01:20:56.060 We're going to check in, uh, see if we have an answer out in the Elizabeth Holmes trial

01:20:59.660 on recommended center on the actual sentence.

01:21:01.720 And we're going to talk about the latest in Harvey Weinstein and the white sign language interpreter

01:21:07.520 being fired from the lion King because of his skin color.

01:21:12.320 Stay tuned.

01:21:15.760 Just getting updates from the people who are inside the courtroom with Elizabeth Holmes.

01:21:19.260 This one is, uh, from an NBC reporter, I believe saying we're now inside the courtroom, Elizabeth

01:21:25.980 Holmes and several of her family members are here.

01:21:27.920 It's more crowded than I've ever seen.

01:21:30.000 Prosecuting attorney claims Elizabeth Holmes at one point, again, this is the one who wants

01:21:35.120 her to have a 15 year sentence at one point wrote quote, they don't put attractive people

01:21:41.260 like me in jail and quote, that got some people shifting in their seats.

01:21:48.420 Mark Garagos.

01:21:49.120 I would venture to guess you disagree with that conclusion.

01:21:53.000 They do indeed.

01:21:54.280 They do indeed.

01:21:54.960 And, uh, I do not think the prosecutors are going to get their way.

01:21:58.060 I don't think this judge is going to, uh, hammer her and give her 15 years.

01:22:02.460 Uh, I suspect it'll come, it won't be double digits, but it's going to be a substantial amount

01:22:08.540 of time.

01:22:09.480 Hmm.

01:22:09.940 What do you think, Marcia?

01:22:10.780 Again, just to remind the audience, the prosecution wants 15, she wants 18 months and this independent

01:22:16.220 probation officer recommended nine years.

01:22:18.740 Yeah.

01:22:19.180 And I think probably nine or 10 is where it's going to land.

01:22:21.960 Um, that said, I have to tell you what Elizabeth Holmes did.

01:22:26.700 If you read the book and I highly recommend that you do, it's called bad blood by John Kerry.

01:22:30.920 And it's very well written and well, very well researched.

01:22:34.140 Um, she's a very dangerous person who did horrible things.

01:22:38.300 And she knowingly misrepresented this, um, system that she had of testing that she represented

01:22:45.620 could create multiple test results with one tiny prick of blood.

01:22:49.800 And for the people who need constant testing, this was a huge life changing thing that really

01:22:55.420 would have been a quality of life game changer for them.

01:22:58.680 Um, very important.

01:22:59.880 And they were misled to their substantial detriment by her when she knew her system did

01:23:04.920 not work, when she knew it was all fake, when she was representing results that never occurred.

01:23:09.800 And the book really does, um, expose all of that.

01:23:13.260 And it went on for a period of time.

01:23:14.660 This was not oops once or twice.

01:23:17.040 This went on for quite a period of time, even after results were shown to her that it made,

01:23:22.240 it was made very clear to her what you're doing to these people.

01:23:24.840 And some of these are cancer patients for God's sake, uh, continue to do this and to perpetrate

01:23:30.080 the lie.

01:23:30.540 So I would be in favor of her getting the maximum, honestly, but, uh, I do not think that she

01:23:35.680 will.

01:23:36.000 I think they will kind of, as Mark said, they'll find kind of a middle ground here.

01:23:39.960 Carrie, you know, just tell, you know, Carrie who's in there, Wall Street Journal reporter

01:23:46.380 who broke this Theranos scandal open, no fewer than nine members of Elizabeth Holmes's

01:23:50.640 $30 million defense team are here for this.

01:23:54.100 My goodness.

01:23:54.680 Keep going.

01:23:55.000 Well, I, what I was going to say, what always troubled me about the prosecution was, and

01:24:00.460 I thought part of the reason that she had at least a shot in the defense was that she

01:24:05.980 did not cash out.

01:24:07.620 She didn't sell as that the height of when this, when she could have, and she had quite

01:24:12.920 accomplished people on both on her board and as advisors.

01:24:16.680 And I thought that that was a telling, uh, you know, this wasn't a pump and dump style fraud

01:24:23.860 that she, uh, that she apparently, uh, at some point had, uh, fervently believed in what

01:24:29.620 she was doing.

01:24:30.580 And so I thought that that might've, uh, given her the ability to successfully defend this

01:24:36.860 and who knows, I mean, there, there have been some post trial disclosures and this judge

01:24:41.840 ordered a evidentiary hearing, uh, to surrounding that, uh, she may, she may have a better shot on

01:24:49.400 appeal than most federal criminal defendants do.

01:24:51.960 Oh, well, let me just say, Mark, that's a good cover.

01:24:54.940 That's a very good point for the defense.

01:24:57.020 Of course you make it, but to me, uh, I think that she's smarter than that.

01:25:02.420 She had people around her that were smarter than that than to do the pump and dump, which

01:25:05.820 is makes it so obvious.

01:25:07.080 You can't, there's no defense left then.

01:25:09.300 So she did kind of, uh, have a shred of a blanket cover, but I do not think ultimately

01:25:15.020 it shows that she did believe in her process and her system.

01:25:19.020 I think that she just knew better than to make it that obvious that she knew it wasn't

01:25:22.720 working.

01:25:23.680 They do put attractive people in jail.

01:25:25.740 I mean, Scott Peterson is attractive of all of his terrible faults, like being a sociopathic

01:25:29.980 murderer.

01:25:30.760 Um, not being attractive isn't on the list.

01:25:32.980 Sorry, Mark.

01:25:33.840 Um, but by the way, she's really not.

01:25:35.620 It's your birthday.

01:25:37.160 I'm not going to push back hard today.

01:25:39.020 Okay.

01:25:39.580 Okay.

01:25:40.140 They know they're with, they're with her on my side.

01:25:42.240 All right.

01:25:42.740 Harvey Weinstein.

01:25:43.700 I don't want to spend too much time on this letch.

01:25:45.680 I mean, it's just, but it's interesting because his New York appeal is being heard and that

01:25:52.000 could go his way.

01:25:53.060 So the LA trial does matter.

01:25:55.100 It does matter.

01:25:56.060 And of there are at least four women now accusing him of sexual assault or rape, including most

01:26:01.080 notably the wife of Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, uh, who has taken a stand and

01:26:07.920 said she was sexually assaulted by this guy.

01:26:11.060 The women for the most part follow a pattern, Marsha, and the defense is making the most out

01:26:16.540 of this pattern that they didn't run.

01:26:20.800 They didn't scream.

01:26:21.980 They didn't hit him while he, you know, they kind of froze and submitted and it was awful

01:26:28.880 and they didn't, they didn't want to be doing it, but the defense is trying to make the most

01:26:32.800 out of the fact that it, you know, it wasn't like, ah, get off of me.

01:26:37.180 You know, these things are, they're complex.

01:26:40.080 They are.

01:26:40.960 And here's another wrinkle that is actually helpful to the defense.

01:26:44.020 And this is the thing I wanted to discuss with you guys, because this, the thing that

01:26:49.640 I think the defense goes after a lot, which they should, is that these women continue to

01:26:53.920 meet with Weinstein, even after the assault, after the attack and, and for the benefit of

01:26:59.320 themselves, but in order to publish a book, in order to get a part in a movie, these things,

01:27:03.900 you know, it's a quid pro quo as, as, as one of them said, um, when she tried to resist

01:27:09.260 him said, I don't do the casting couch thing.

01:27:11.360 Okay.

01:27:12.220 So those of us in Los Angeles, and I mean, I'm probably everybody in the country by now,

01:27:16.240 but certainly here in industry town, we all know that there is a quid pro quo that a lot

01:27:21.340 of men in the past, I don't know about as much now have gotten away with a lot of assaultive

01:27:26.220 behavior, harassed behavior, because they had the power, the power to give you work, the

01:27:30.900 power to withhold work from you, the power to cast you or never get you casted again.

01:27:34.840 So this, they hold this power over you and then you're afraid to report.

01:27:39.280 So even though they may have suffered a true rape, they were raped righteously.

01:27:43.820 So they don't behave the way you expect the rape victim to behave because they're afraid

01:27:48.540 to report.

01:27:49.280 And the power is wielded in that manner and was here.

01:27:52.260 So the defense repeats over and over again, but you never told anyone, but you went back

01:27:56.560 to see him again.

01:27:57.440 You met with him five more times, this sort of thing.

01:27:59.800 And I'm wondering though, because it is being tried in Los Angeles, where people know a great

01:28:04.840 deal about this kind of these power dynamics, whether that will influence the jury who will

01:28:09.800 say, you know what?

01:28:10.520 Of course she couldn't report.

01:28:11.800 She had to keep having a career, earning a living.

01:28:15.680 Even Meryl Streep said he's God.

01:28:18.620 Yeah.

01:28:19.420 Well, you know, it's also interesting, Marcia and I were talking about this before we went

01:28:23.380 on the air.

01:28:24.340 You know, this is being tried in the criminal courts building downtown on the ninth floor,

01:28:28.920 across the hallway.

01:28:30.480 They're also in trial.

01:28:31.880 The jury's been out for either two or three days on the Danny Masterson sexual assault case.

01:28:37.440 So you have these two cases that involve allegations of sexual assault that happened

01:28:45.000 many years ago.

01:28:46.580 And that jury in the Masterson case is probably Friday afternoon, bewitching hour, you'll get

01:28:52.220 a verdict.

01:28:52.780 But they've been out for a couple of days.

01:28:54.700 They've asked a question in that case.

01:28:56.580 One of their first questions I was telling Marcia was they wanted Phil Cohen's closing

01:29:00.920 argument on reasonable doubt chart.

01:29:03.220 I mean, for a criminal defense lawyer, it doesn't get much better than that one.

01:29:06.820 That's the first question out of the box.

01:29:08.820 I laughingly told Marcia the only thing that beats that is a civil case where the jury asks

01:29:13.480 for a calculator.

01:29:14.860 But that's being tried there.

01:29:17.060 This case is being tried there.

01:29:18.720 And Mark Workman and Alan, who were trying the case for Harvey, they understand that he's

01:29:25.680 got a real shot, as you mentioned, of New York.

01:29:28.500 New York's highest court took his conviction, if you will, under review.

01:29:34.380 And I watched the intermediate court oral arguments.

01:29:38.580 I would have bet in real time that they would have reversed it on grounds of bringing in this

01:29:44.840 other acts evidence, what Martian idea called 1101, they call it Molyneux evidence in New York.

01:29:51.000 But they didn't reverse it on those grounds.

01:29:55.020 But there clearly, clearly were issues in that case.

01:29:58.920 If he gets that reversed in New York and hangs this case here in L.A., which if I'm going to

01:30:06.460 prognosticate, I'm going to guess that he gets a hung jury in this case.

01:30:10.380 Several accounts were dismissed already when one of the complaining witnesses would not

01:30:15.620 testify.

01:30:17.020 And by all accounts in that courtroom, the defense is doing a bang-up job of making this out to

01:30:24.520 be transactional encounters and not assaultive behavior.

01:30:30.660 If that happens, Harvey Weinstein could be walking free or wheeling, wheeling free.

01:30:35.380 I mean, like the thought of that guy wandering around society as a free man is absolutely

01:30:42.240 stomach turning.

01:30:43.580 Whatever you think about, you know, these particular allegations, there have been scores of women

01:30:49.900 who have come forward to say he did this little trick where he masturbated himself on them

01:30:55.380 or it just suddenly was like exposing himself and fondling them.

01:31:00.900 And the descriptions of his genitals are too disgusting for me to read, even on our explicitly

01:31:06.240 rated.

01:31:07.460 I mean, and the court drawings of them, the courtroom drawings of them are just repulsive.

01:31:14.240 What happened to his testicles?

01:31:15.680 Where are they?

01:31:16.500 They're not where they're supposed to be.

01:31:18.280 They're apparently implanted in his thigh.

01:31:20.940 So, I mean, it's just.

01:31:22.780 Why?

01:31:23.740 Why don't you plant your testicles in your thigh?

01:31:28.260 I'm sorry.

01:31:29.160 It's just like.

01:31:31.000 He's so gross.

01:31:32.620 These poor women.

01:31:34.200 Anyway, legally, it's trickier than it is morally.

01:31:37.100 So we'll continue to watch.

01:31:38.180 All right.

01:31:38.380 We got to get to this last case, this Lion King case.

01:31:40.980 So the sign language guy, the guy who signs the Lion King on Broadway for people who are

01:31:48.280 struggling to hear or hard of hearing, Juan is his last name, has sued alleging race discrimination.

01:31:56.740 He's an American sign language interpreter because he clearly got fired.

01:32:00.520 It doesn't seem like this was a question.

01:32:02.900 He got fired because his skin is white and he has emails saying you need to back out of

01:32:09.720 the show because of the environment.

01:32:13.600 They say that it's important and necessary that the sign interpreters match the cultural

01:32:17.680 and physical representation on stage.

01:32:20.900 Oh, I got news for you, lady.

01:32:22.040 He's not a lion either.

01:32:23.740 What do you mean?

01:32:24.920 He has to match the physical representation on stage.

01:32:27.580 It's not appropriate, she stated, for a white interpreter to represent black characters

01:32:33.340 for ASL interpreted Broadway shows.

01:32:36.940 They're lions.

01:32:38.200 Can he do the lion?

01:32:39.720 I mean, there are humans in the cast as well, but this is absurd.

01:32:43.280 And he's saying it's race discrimination against him because he has white skin.

01:32:47.720 Is he right, Marcia?

01:32:49.980 You know, this is a tough one for me, believe it or not, because I can see both sides of this

01:32:54.960 one.

01:32:55.780 You have the cast is black and you have these sign language interpreters who are on stage

01:33:01.940 with them.

01:33:02.400 And so what you want is you want the comparison to be made.

01:33:09.660 You want them to appear to be the same as the characters they're interpreting for.

01:33:13.820 So I understand that you want that appearance.

01:33:15.960 And for example, if he were standing behind a screen where you could see the movements in

01:33:20.720 silhouette and you didn't see what his skin was, then it would be a different story.

01:33:25.740 But here I can see that you really want these things to line up.

01:33:29.360 You want them to look like people in the play.

01:33:32.400 This is understandable.

01:33:33.780 That said, there is another side to this, which is this was just for one performance

01:33:37.720 because they have three BIPOC sign language interpreters.

01:33:41.240 Two of them were unavailable.

01:33:42.740 So for this one appearance, you know, they slotted people in that ordinarily would not be in

01:33:48.160 the show and would not have been again.

01:33:50.100 So I don't know.

01:33:51.020 Was it worth it?

01:33:51.660 This becomes a little tough, but I do understand wanting to give the people who put their hard

01:33:57.380 earned money and took their time to go and see the show to give them the experience

01:34:00.820 that they intend to give.

01:34:03.680 But it's it presumes that they're not getting it because of his white skin.

01:34:08.000 You know, it's like they're it does they're deaf.

01:34:09.880 They're probably just delighted to have this guy up there interpreting it to that to them

01:34:13.900 in a way that makes it all easy to understand.

01:34:16.060 I why how is it lawful to fire a guy because of his skin color, Mark?

01:34:21.320 Well, the interesting thing is if he he has, I guess, the emails that say in this environment,

01:34:28.700 my reaction would be in this environment.

01:34:31.880 That's the last thing you would want to do.

01:34:34.040 So I it's almost like turning it, turning it on its head.

01:34:37.800 I understand the point that Marsha makes that this was a one off, if you will.

01:34:43.020 And that should have been the end of it.

01:34:45.540 But, you know, there are people find a lawyer and the lawyer wants to sue.

01:34:50.100 I think he's going to win.

01:34:51.220 I think it's one thing to say we don't like your hair color, but it's a different thing

01:34:53.960 to say we don't like your skin color.

01:34:55.520 That still remains unlawful.

01:34:57.160 Even if you're trying to be sensitive to a group who I guarantee it was not offended

01:35:00.620 because I guarantee there was nobody who was offended by the white signer who was potentially

01:35:05.000 going to go out there and do his sign language thing.

01:35:07.100 You guys, what a pleasure.

01:35:08.400 Thank you so much for being here.

01:35:09.780 And let's do it again.

01:35:11.020 Thank you.

01:35:11.520 I'd love to.

01:35:11.920 Thanks so much.

01:35:12.560 And again, happy birthday.

01:35:13.580 Have a great one.

01:35:14.620 Happy birthday.

01:35:15.320 Bye, Marsha.

01:35:16.320 Bye, Mark.

01:35:17.000 What a pleasure.

01:35:18.300 All right.

01:35:18.480 We'll be right back with a little bit of the MK Mailbag.

01:35:22.020 All right.

01:35:22.480 You guys sent me some email at Megan, M-E-G-Y-N, at Megan Kelly.

01:35:27.360 That's also a place you can sign up for our American News Minute with a shocking update

01:35:32.040 on Strudwick today.

01:35:33.980 Sign up and you'll see.

01:35:35.040 Go to MeganKelley.com.

01:35:36.420 And we wanted to read some of your feedback to you.

01:35:39.180 It's always fun.

01:35:40.560 Here is one from just yesterday.

01:35:43.280 This is from Cindy.

01:35:44.580 First of all, I want to wish you the happiest of birthdays.

01:35:46.540 Thank you, Cindy.

01:35:47.540 I also love Doug's podcast.

01:35:49.480 It's called Dedicated with Doug Brunt.

01:35:51.260 We featured him on the show yesterday.

01:35:53.040 It's about authors and their books.

01:35:54.320 He has a very soothing voice and sounds like he's a heck of a bartender.

01:35:57.860 You and Doug have now managed to cover my three favorite things, politics, reading and

01:36:01.080 alcohol.

01:36:01.780 Not necessarily in that order.

01:36:03.920 Steven in Cape Cod writes, you and I share a birthday.

01:36:06.560 Happy birthday, Steven, along with Mickey Mouse.

01:36:08.700 That's right.

01:36:09.260 So happy birthday to you and back at you.

01:36:12.040 I listened to your interview with Doug on my way to my third annual CAT scan.

01:36:16.360 I'm three years cancer free.

01:36:18.360 Thank God.

01:36:18.980 Can you bring Doug back and ask him about his upbringing as you do with a lot of your

01:36:23.760 other guests?

01:36:24.460 I can do that.

01:36:25.320 In fact, I happen to know that Doug's got some very interesting news from his latest guest,

01:36:30.900 and we may run that soundbite next week.

01:36:33.620 And perhaps I will pop him up and he will tell you about his upbringing in Philadelphia,

01:36:37.720 the suburbs of Philadelphia.

01:36:40.420 He's the third of four children, and they're all really sweet, just like Doug.

01:36:45.000 In any event, thank you all so much for being with us this week.

01:36:47.480 Next week, we're going to have Clay Travis, Vivek Ramaswamy, deep dive into Alec Baldwin's

01:36:51.980 Legal Troubles, too.

01:36:52.680 See you then.

01:36:53.060 Have a great weekend.

01:36:55.640 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:36:57.740 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - November 18, 2022

New Casey Anthony and JonBenet Ramsey Revelations, and Overcoming Envy, with Mark Geragos, Marcia Clark, and Dr. Laura ｜ Ep. 438

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