The Megyn Kelly Show - New Questions About Biden's Cognitive Decline, and COVID Panic is Back, with Dr. Drew ｜ Ep. 354

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00:00:02.860 Someone is trying to frame us.

00:00:05.160 Until our names are cleared.

00:00:07.700 We're fugitives from interval.

00:00:09.480 Like Bonnie and Clyde with better snacks.

00:00:12.840 Espionage?

00:00:13.560 You still as good a shot as you used to be?

00:00:16.580 Better.

00:00:17.400 Is there love language?

00:00:18.860 We like to walk that fine line between techno-thriller

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00:00:30.680 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.560 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:41.600 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:43.260 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Monday.

00:00:46.000 A lot to get to today.

00:00:47.960 Dr. Drew Pinsky is our guest.

00:00:49.920 And boy, do we have a range of stories and issues to get to with him.

00:00:52.840 We'll talk politics and we're going to get his thoughts on President Biden's age and mental fitness

00:00:58.780 after a new viral clip appears to show the president grappling with the teleprompter again

00:01:03.560 and another one shows him messing up his words again.

00:01:07.700 Plus, the New York Times has abandoned Joe Biden.

00:01:11.160 My goodness.

00:01:11.980 First, there was this report on Saturday about the president, quote, shuffling when he walks

00:01:20.160 through the White House and the White House staffers living in fear that he will either

00:01:26.640 trip over some sort of a wire in the White House or verbally stumble while in front of

00:01:33.180 the cameras.

00:01:33.860 And of course, that happens all the time and they know it.

00:01:37.900 There's also just a devastating series of numbers out from a New York Times slash Siena

00:01:43.180 College poll on how the Democrats feel about Joe Biden.

00:01:47.800 And long story short, and we'll start with this when we when we bring on Dr. Drew is they

00:01:51.540 want him gone.

00:01:52.800 They do not want him to be their nominee second time around.

00:01:57.340 This is the New York Times telling Joe Biden, get out, get out, save the party.

00:02:01.660 You are not our last best hope.

00:02:03.740 In fact, you are absolutely no hope.

00:02:05.920 So we'll talk to Dr. Drew about that.

00:02:07.460 And he's also fired up and ready to discuss California Governor Gavin Newsom, who clearly

00:02:12.180 is gearing up for a potential 2024 run as he sees and smells opportunity in the Democratic

00:02:18.420 Party.

00:02:19.280 Dr. Drew, as you may know, is an internist and an addiction medicine specialist.

00:02:23.680 He's the host of four different podcasts, one of them being the Adam and Dr. Drew show

00:02:29.040 show that he co-hosts with our pal Adam Carolla.

00:02:31.660 Dr. Drew, great to have you back.

00:02:36.780 How are you doing?

00:02:37.760 Great to be here.

00:02:38.640 Thank you so much for having me.

00:02:40.180 Well, I don't think I need a medical doctor to diagnose these terrible poll numbers for

00:02:43.700 for Joe Biden.

00:02:44.800 They spell sickness and near death politically.

00:02:48.380 Here's here's what the Times found in its poll again with Siena College.

00:02:52.340 I like Siena College.

00:02:53.480 That's but that's right by where I grew up.

00:02:55.620 Upstate New York.

00:02:56.560 Thirty three percent approval rating.

00:02:58.740 Thirty three.

00:03:00.160 I don't remember seeing one that low, though somebody would likely correct me.

00:03:05.000 Just twenty six percent of Democratic voters want him to run for reelection.

00:03:10.180 OK, just twenty six percent.

00:03:11.560 The New York Times describes this as, quote, an alarming level of doubt from inside his own

00:03:16.340 party.

00:03:17.160 Quote, a sign of deep vulnerability and of unease among what is supposed to be his political

00:03:22.760 base.

00:03:23.140 Sixty four percent of Democratic voters say they want someone new.

00:03:27.580 Add to that just 13 percent say the United States is moving in the right direction.

00:03:31.660 That dovetails on a Monmouth poll we saw last week, I think, from that shows 88 percent

00:03:35.700 believe we're on the wrong track.

00:03:37.260 The overwhelming majority of Americans think the country's on the wrong track.

00:03:41.000 And now the overwhelming majority of Democrats forget independents and Republicans don't want

00:03:47.160 Joe Biden to even run again in the second term.

00:03:50.400 I mean, I think you you would say coming from California, what's happening in that state could

00:03:56.920 be indicative of why we're seeing Democrats now jump ship.

00:04:01.300 But you tell me what you think.

00:04:03.080 I hope so.

00:04:04.580 The fact that they reinstated Governor Newsom after that recall effort was just astonishing

00:04:09.740 to me that he was able to easily overwhelm that effort.

00:04:15.020 I don't understand that California is such a mess.

00:04:17.320 The quality of life is so low.

00:04:19.520 You can't move.

00:04:20.440 You can't buy gas.

00:04:21.540 You can't feel safe.

00:04:23.220 Wherever you are in that state, it is a mess.

00:04:26.180 And how that person that has sort of seen the decline in what was once this glorious state,

00:04:34.620 he's the guy you want to put as a president, it's hard to know.

00:04:37.540 But this whole thing with Joe Biden, for me, brings up the question more than anything else.

00:04:42.080 What are we doing putting the very aged into positions of authority? 1.00

00:04:47.620 He everything you described, the shuffling, the difficulty with reading a prompter and

00:04:52.160 fumbling with one's words, word finding difficulty.

00:04:54.520 That is normal aging for a male in their 80s.

00:04:59.640 That is normative.

00:05:01.540 We should anticipate that.

00:05:03.040 A few people in their 80s, again, men age worse than women. 0.96

00:05:07.480 Few men make it through their 80s in the mid-80s with a certain amount of alacrity and

00:05:12.520 persistent alacrity without neurological decline.

00:05:18.760 But that is the exception.

00:05:20.460 When you're in your 80s, you should have cognitive slowing.

00:05:24.520 You should have increased risk of fall.

00:05:27.540 It's very common for there to be sort of Parkinsonian quality about how they move about.

00:05:31.880 That's normative.

00:05:33.440 And the fact that we're looking at that and going, what's going on here?

00:05:36.480 That to me is astonishing.

00:05:37.980 And maybe that's what's behind the New York Times position.

00:05:40.400 They're really waking up to the fact that, oh, my goodness, as he approaches 80, what's

00:05:44.420 going to be like at 82?

00:05:46.080 And the voters know it.

00:05:47.240 I mean, 33 percent of those Democrats say the reason we don't want to run again is his

00:05:51.200 age.

00:05:51.700 And I think those are the kind ones that they're seeing what we're seeing.

00:05:55.620 He would be at the end of his second term if he were to win one.

00:05:58.900 Eighty six years old.

00:06:00.520 I mean, 86.

00:06:01.540 We all know people of that age and we all know that they are in no position to run the country.

00:06:08.120 Well, I'm afraid that's true.

00:06:09.360 And there's a weird denial in our country.

00:06:12.640 Generally, I've noticed practicing medicine.

00:06:14.220 I deal predominantly in my general medical practice with people in their eighth, ninth

00:06:18.460 and 10th decades of life.

00:06:20.420 And there is massive denial about the process of aging.

00:06:23.980 It's less so now because people have seen their aged parents and helped them through that 0.99

00:06:28.620 process.

00:06:29.260 But as it pertains to the baby boomers aging, remember, baby boomers idolized youth.

00:06:35.020 They wanted to be youthful forever.

00:06:36.460 And they have remained massively in denial about the reality of aging.

00:06:40.660 And there is a normative process.

00:06:43.360 You lose things as you age and cognitive cognition, physical skills, normal part of the aging process.

00:06:50.620 We have to get very realistic about that.

00:06:51.940 I know people have occasionally brought up the idea that we shouldn't, you know, same thing

00:06:55.820 with physicians.

00:06:56.400 We're always evaluating whether or not, you know, how we should get physicians out of the

00:07:00.460 practice of medicine if aging gets in the way of their ability to practice.

00:07:04.920 And we have a whole procedure for that.

00:07:06.580 There should be some procedure, it seems to me, in our government for something similar.

00:07:11.220 Yeah.

00:07:11.380 At my old law firm, there was a mandatory retirement policy at age 65 for the partners because

00:07:15.960 they understand just, you know, the mental acuity past then starts to go down in a way

00:07:20.420 that could compromise services to the clients.

00:07:23.280 And so that's why, you know, you would maybe go of counsel and you would be advising.

00:07:27.020 It's not that you're totally useless.

00:07:28.380 We all know that, too.

00:07:29.700 It's just let's be real.

00:07:31.280 We know what happens to people's brain functioning as they get, in fact, elderly.

00:07:36.400 OK, elderly.

00:07:37.640 They The Times is reporting that there's just additional color.

00:07:42.040 He is now he's going to the Middle East tomorrow.

00:07:44.360 He was initially supposed to go.

00:07:46.520 They were going to attack it on the last month's trip to Europe.

00:07:48.700 But White House insiders determined that was, quote, crazy for a man in his condition and

00:07:53.440 of his age, that they're holding their breath to see if he makes it to the end of any of

00:07:59.040 his public appearances without a gaffe, that he stays out of public view at night, that

00:08:04.200 he's taken part in fewer than half as many news conferences or interviews as recent presidents.

00:08:10.520 And here are some of those numbers.

00:08:11.680 He's held 16 pressers, meaning news conferences.

00:08:14.240 That's less than half as many as Trump, Obama or George W. Bush.

00:08:17.900 He's given 38 interviews so far as president, far fewer than Trump.

00:08:21.800 Trump gave by this point in his term, not 38, 116.

00:08:26.220 Obama had given 198.

00:08:27.680 That's just and the others are all up near 100, except for Biden, who's down below 40.

00:08:34.000 There's a very good reason for that.

00:08:35.740 They know he's likely to misstep and public confidence will be rattled.

00:08:40.960 And Dr.

00:08:41.820 Drew, what they do is then just try to gaslight us about what we've seen.

00:08:46.700 And the case in point on that, the most recent, comes from Friday.

00:08:50.200 He got in front of the cameras to announce this attempted executive action he wants to do on

00:08:54.700 abortion. And this was pretty viral.

00:08:57.580 And the question was whether he had read aloud a teleprompter instruction.

00:09:04.420 For example, sometimes if I'm reading my teleprompter and there's a soundbite, my team might write in

00:09:09.660 there pause or they might write sought just to let me know their sound playing.

00:09:14.900 It would. The accusation is that he effectively read pause or sought when he read the following

00:09:21.060 words. Repeat the line.

00:09:24.040 Some of his defenders said, oh, no, that's not what happened.

00:09:28.160 Look, he I'm going to play it.

00:09:30.620 You can judge for yourself.

00:09:32.040 Watch. Watch what he did.

00:09:32.940 It is noteworthy that the percentage of women who registered to vote and cast a ballot is 0.90

00:09:39.700 consistently higher than the percentage of the men who do so.

00:09:43.040 End of quote. Repeat the line.

00:09:45.500 Women are not without electoral and or political or or maybe precise, not and or or political 1.00

00:09:52.240 power.

00:09:54.140 And like it makes no sense if it wasn't a teleprompter instruction, it makes no sense.

00:09:59.160 Let me just finish it up, because then the White House scrubbed that from the official

00:10:05.300 transcript, which claimed this is the official transcript supposed to stick to the truth.

00:10:09.640 The transcript claims what he actually said was, let me repeat the line.

00:10:14.740 Can we just play it one more time, you guys?

00:10:16.020 Do we have it queued up so we can play it again?

00:10:18.660 That is not what he said.

00:10:20.180 He did not say, let me repeat the line.

00:10:22.080 He said, repeat the line.

00:10:23.420 Listen.

00:10:23.580 It is noteworthy that the percentage of women who registered to vote and cast a ballot is 0.90

00:10:30.340 consistently higher than the percentage of the men who do so.

00:10:33.680 End of quote.

00:10:34.620 Repeat the line.

00:10:36.140 Women are not without electoral and or political or or maybe precise, not and or or political 1.00

00:10:42.880 power.

00:10:44.720 OK, so even if the way they spin it is not necessarily better.

00:10:50.620 You know what I'm saying?

00:10:51.260 Even if he doesn't understand what he's saying, when you say that's exactly right.

00:10:55.880 Yeah.

00:10:56.100 So either read repeat the line, which he was just reading through the script or he didn't

00:11:01.120 understand.

00:11:01.840 Let me repeat the line.

00:11:03.040 What what that was all about.

00:11:04.600 And he didn't.

00:11:05.720 He did not repeat the line.

00:11:07.340 That's the thing.

00:11:07.940 So it's like even if they had written in there, let me repeat the line.

00:11:11.120 And he was supposed to go back and repeat the line, which he then did not do.

00:11:14.720 That's the best case scenario for him.

00:11:16.760 And then the White House assistant press secretary, Emily Simons.

00:11:21.260 Repeated that lie that the transcript had.

00:11:23.440 She tweeted, quote, no, he said, let me repeat the line in response to people claiming what

00:11:30.500 I'm saying right here.

00:11:31.480 And she got completely ratioed on this.

00:11:34.040 Everybody was like, screw you and your lies.

00:11:37.360 We know what we saw and we heard your lies.

00:11:39.620 Lies aren't going to cover up the truth with all the 33 percent of the Democrats saying

00:11:43.780 he's too old to run for reelection and 63 percent saying he should not run for reelection.

00:11:48.860 Those lies do nothing to obscure the truth.

00:11:52.340 We all see and and feel it.

00:11:54.500 The horrible thing is we've all gotten so used to obfuscation and lies that they're depressed

00:12:01.500 out, pushed out in the press that it barely registers anymore.

00:12:05.920 We really are finally in a time when people understand that they have to really examine

00:12:11.680 everything that what they're being told is the vast majority of time, either distortion

00:12:16.380 or an untruth.

00:12:17.880 Maybe that will bring us together.

00:12:19.400 Maybe that will cause us to kind of talk to each other a little bit rather than to listen

00:12:23.760 to the echo chambers that are raining down on us.

00:12:26.700 I mean, it's every day we see something from him.

00:12:29.640 This is another one.

00:12:31.100 And yes, he loved a word.

00:12:32.320 It could happen to anybody, but it happens all the time to him.

00:12:36.360 Listen to this.

00:12:36.940 You'll you'll hear it.

00:12:39.340 And she was forced to have to travel out of the state to Indiana to seek to terminate the 1.00

00:12:44.860 presidency and maybe save her life. 1.00

00:12:47.920 Oh, this is.

00:12:50.020 Oh, I didn't see that one.

00:12:53.980 Oh, yeah.

00:12:55.400 I mean, again, if I'd said that on this show, you'd be like, oh, you said presidency.

00:12:59.160 You meant pregnancy with him. 0.86

00:13:01.380 It happens every other day.

00:13:02.640 And it's like it's affected foreign policy.

00:13:04.980 He's said either what he actually feels or the wrong thing or change policy.

00:13:09.640 And and like people are getting it.

00:13:11.680 That's my one consolation is people understand these numbers show.

00:13:14.540 Right.

00:13:15.040 That's right.

00:13:15.840 I don't know.

00:13:16.520 It remains deeply disturbing to me.

00:13:18.380 I you tell me because like, look, my one good friend, she's a doctor.

00:13:21.380 Her dad's a pediatrician.

00:13:23.000 He's 90 and he still sees some patients and he still sort of got a foothold in medicine.

00:13:28.260 And that's how he stays sharp.

00:13:29.760 And I believe I believe that because he's a very sharp guy.

00:13:33.520 He's not running a practice.

00:13:35.460 He's not without support in the office.

00:13:38.280 Right.

00:13:38.680 It's not the same.

00:13:40.280 No, no, no.

00:13:41.560 You could.

00:13:42.100 You like you said, when with your lawyer, lawyer, legal colleagues, you could step down to levels of care that that, you know, where you are at least being supervised or structured or, you know, the mental acuity that you would need at 35 is not the same at 75.

00:13:57.000 It's a kind of an easy thing to do in professional life.

00:14:00.420 It's not an easy thing to do when you're the leader of the free world.

00:14:03.620 And it really begs the issue for me that it's it's was obvious to me from the beginning we would be dealing with this and people were actually accusing him of dementia and Parkinson's and this.

00:14:14.940 I thought, no, I really didn't see any evidence that maybe some minimal cognitive change, but I really saw just normal aging, which is what we're talking about here.

00:14:22.380 And it begs the issue.

00:14:24.280 And if you notice a lot of the rhetoric coming out of the White House is addressing this issue, which begs the issue, who is making the decision, who is really doing the analysis here?

00:14:35.260 And how are these decisions being made with someone that is maybe not, you know, processing the way we would like him to?

00:14:41.780 And they've started trying to get ahead of that.

00:14:43.720 It seemed to be I've heard a lot of stuff coming out.

00:14:45.760 People say, oh, he's sharp as ever.

00:14:46.980 He's making great decisions.

00:14:48.240 Ask great questions.

00:14:49.620 I don't know if that's the Times report.

00:14:50.880 Doesn't seem right.

00:14:51.900 Doesn't seem like he would be.

00:14:53.520 Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:14:54.520 Now.

00:14:54.820 Now we have to mention the fact Trump is 76.

00:14:58.060 So that's now in 2022 and 2024.

00:15:00.720 He's going to be 78.

00:15:02.120 And if he runs for office and wins, he'll be 82 when it's not like I know a lot of people love Trump.

00:15:07.540 He's definitely got a higher approval rating within the Republican Party than Joe Biden does.

00:15:12.320 Well, actually, I'm not sure about that.

00:15:13.860 He has 70 percent support of Democrats, but not to not to run again, not to run again.

00:15:17.320 In any event, my point is he's also getting older.

00:15:20.060 And it's like Nancy Pelosi is about 200.

00:15:22.900 We like we.

00:15:23.580 Is this the best we can do?

00:15:25.440 That is the question.

00:15:26.980 And if no wonder millennials and Gen Z are upset.

00:15:30.480 There's been no transfer of authority, no transfer of anything to give them the opportunity to have a crack at this or very little.

00:15:37.920 And yeah, I it's inadvisable to have a 78 year old president.

00:15:41.200 And I Trump is way on the other end of the curve.

00:15:44.160 Right.

00:15:44.460 He has a lot of of still, you know, he's very mental acuity.

00:15:48.660 Seems to be extraordinarily robust.

00:15:50.000 You know, if you remember when he was president, they did something called the MoCA test on him.

00:15:54.080 It's this Montreal cognitive assessment.

00:15:56.160 But that is a really hard assessment.

00:15:58.720 And that absolutely tells you what's going on.

00:16:01.540 And according to I think it was Dr. Jackson that did it at the time that that it was, you know, he passed completely.

00:16:07.240 It was a 10 out of 10.

00:16:08.500 And that was not surprising.

00:16:10.480 You notice we don't see those tests.

00:16:12.300 We don't even see the minute, the minimum cognitive testing being done on President Biden because it wouldn't look the same.

00:16:18.200 It just wouldn't.

00:16:18.900 You can you can see it.

00:16:19.900 It just would not.

00:16:21.480 All right.

00:16:21.660 So now you've got DeSantis.

00:16:23.940 I think he's 43.

00:16:25.540 Gavin Newsom is young.

00:16:27.820 I can't I don't know the exact age, but he's late 40s, early 50s.

00:16:31.660 And Gavin Newsom's saber rattling about possibly getting in.

00:16:36.780 I mean, that's obviously why he ran this ad, took out an ad in Florida, ran it on Fox News, attacking DeSantis.

00:16:41.940 And attacking Florida and saying in California they stand for freedom.

00:16:46.140 And look, I get that he thinks that'll that'll be a winning move with Democrats.

00:16:51.300 And he's sort of this slick, perfect haired, good looking politician that, you know, to Democrats might look a little like, oh, it's the next JFK.

00:17:00.360 You know, he's a progressive and he's when you take a hard look at California, because that's what would happen if he actually ran and took on Joe Biden and managed to beat Joe Biden for the nomination.

00:17:10.240 And then was up against the Republicans.

00:17:12.420 People are going to take a hard look at the record of California.

00:17:15.000 That's his state.

00:17:16.220 San Francisco, as Michael Schellenberger called it.

00:17:20.000 Los Angeles.

00:17:21.360 Both of both cities have either just recalled their DAs or are in the process of trying to recall their DA because crime is so out of control.

00:17:27.880 Homelessness is so out of control. 1.00

00:17:29.440 Drug use is so out of control.

00:17:30.520 This is something you've been paying close attention to.

00:17:32.380 So when you take a hard look at California and Gavin Newsom's California, what do you see?

00:17:37.480 Well, I'll get into that.

00:17:39.040 But there's another piece of this that people don't that us in California have looked at for a time and have been very upset about is he comes down on the populace with his emergency.

00:17:49.960 What is it called?

00:17:50.940 An emergency.

00:17:51.300 We still are under an emergency act of some type since it's ridiculous.

00:17:55.120 And he comes down on all of us and then his kids, he closes the schools, caves to the unions.

00:18:02.640 His kids stay in school.

00:18:04.640 He goes out to restaurants in indoor environments with his peers, no masks.

00:18:09.160 He does whatever the hell he wants.

00:18:10.640 And this hypocrisy is what's going to get him.

00:18:14.500 That's the part that we in California see on a regular basis and are living under the oppressive regime he's put in place.

00:18:21.540 I have talked to the public health director of the state of California and said, what are you basing this on?

00:18:27.440 He's a pediatrician.

00:18:31.160 Pediatricians are not adult medical doctors.

00:18:33.740 They have a different way of thinking.

00:18:35.220 They have a different mindset.

00:18:36.580 They were put in that position because they are vaccine specialists.

00:18:39.960 That's why they go into that public health. 0.53

00:18:41.700 And childhood illnesses are a very serious public health issue.

00:18:44.460 This was an adult illness, end-of-life illness.

00:18:47.380 Seventy and above is where it became relevant.

00:18:49.120 And they are not good at making decisions on this illness.

00:18:52.940 It's the infectious disease community, people like Monica Gandhi and Vinay Prasad.

00:18:56.860 These guys, and he's an oncologist, but to be fair, these adult doctors understand the risk-reward we're making in every decision we make.

00:19:04.140 The pediatricians that I've spoken to that were in positions of authority during the COVID mandates were scared to death of everything

00:19:12.660 because they didn't understand the relative risk to an adult.

00:19:16.980 They thought in terms of pediatric risk, which this was nothing like that.

00:19:21.180 But back to what's going on in California.

00:19:23.040 Can I pause you there?

00:19:24.080 Can I just pause you there?

00:19:24.820 I do want to talk about California, obviously.

00:19:27.020 But what you said reminded me of Gavin Newsom's latest hypocrisy, which is he banned any state-funded travel by the legislature or so on to basically red states.

00:19:39.120 Right. And Montana was one of them because he doesn't think their values aligned.

00:19:43.540 It doesn't want taxpayer dollars going into those states.

00:19:45.540 Well, guess where he just took his vacation?

00:19:47.740 Montana, red state Montana.

00:19:50.560 And when he got caught, because apparently his office releases where he goes on personal vacations to the public every time,

00:19:56.320 because, you know, you need to know where your leader is.

00:19:58.040 Not this time.

00:19:59.760 Suddenly silent.

00:20:00.640 And so one intrepid reporter started calling the statehouse saying, where is he?

00:20:05.680 Where is he?

00:20:06.240 Where is he?

00:20:07.000 And finally, they had to admit he was in Montana, where I guess his wife's parents have a ranch.

00:20:12.080 And when the reporter asked and my team will get me her name, it's not in front of me.

00:20:15.880 But when the reporter asked, so is he because they said he pays paying for the trip himself.

00:20:20.960 And they said, is he is he going with state funded security?

00:20:24.100 Does he have security?

00:20:25.020 Like, are the taxpayers in California paying for security in for him in Montana?

00:20:29.720 And the response was, we don't comment about security.

00:20:32.660 So the answer is yes.

00:20:34.300 He's such a hypocrite.

00:20:35.580 It's disgusting.

00:20:36.560 Of course.

00:20:37.520 Disgusting.

00:20:38.060 It's a great example.

00:20:39.400 There's a lot of buzz about that in California.

00:20:41.700 We've come to expect that from him.

00:20:43.800 It's almost axiomatic now when he does stuff like this.

00:20:47.020 And look, he's rich.

00:20:48.840 He feels that none of this applies to him.

00:20:51.480 He does whatever he wants.

00:20:53.120 It's it's a bizarre situation.

00:20:55.120 And I imagine I'd be stunning that this doesn't all come to light when he's running for president.

00:21:02.460 Yeah.

00:21:02.620 He went to Montana after taking aim at Montana.

00:21:05.240 And look, the guy, he won't answer questions.

00:21:09.380 He really he's all very slippery at all times.

00:21:13.140 You know, he he claims to be a man of the people, but he is a man above the people.

00:21:17.640 Oh, and by the way, he he's 54 and the reporter was named Cal Matters or Cal Matters.

00:21:23.360 The reporter was named Emily Hoven of Cal Matters.

00:21:26.860 OK, so, yeah.

00:21:27.940 So moving on to the state of his state.

00:21:30.520 So, yes, the stuff is crazy.

00:21:31.860 And it's starting again, by the way, it's starting again.

00:21:34.020 We're dealing with it in New York.

00:21:35.680 Recommended indoor mass and so on.

00:21:37.680 So that's and I do.

00:21:38.540 I have a lot to talk to you about on covid.

00:21:40.040 But let's stay on California for right now because it's we have it's a garbage dumpster.

00:21:43.580 L.A. County, the the the the public health officials there are way out of line relative

00:21:51.500 to the common wisdom.

00:21:52.800 But in any event, we have here's here's what creates the homeless problem in Los Angeles.

00:21:58.740 We people don't understand this.

00:22:00.180 There are literally tens of billions of dollars set aside to help the homeless.

00:22:05.780 People are always complaining.

00:22:07.680 Where's the we need money to help?

00:22:09.340 No, no, we don't need money.

00:22:10.660 The reality is the way our state is set up, you can't help the homeless.

00:22:15.900 Here's here's what we have.

00:22:17.080 We have Prop 47, Prop 57, AB 109 and a terrible D.A.

00:22:21.440 So you can come to our state.

00:22:23.360 You can use drugs freely.

00:22:25.040 You can trafficking drugs as long as you're trafficking in certain amounts.

00:22:28.820 And you can steal up to nine hundred dollars a day to support your habit.

00:22:31.880 Now, I worked in the field of drug addiction for 25 years.

00:22:34.640 You tell a drug addict that they're coming.

00:22:36.700 They'll be right there.

00:22:37.880 So they come because of that.

00:22:39.420 Then we don't enforce any laws on the homeless.

00:22:42.060 I just tweeted a thing from a physician who during the beach closure closures, which was one of the most really in the sign of the level in competency going on during the heat of the covid crisis.

00:22:54.300 They should have encouraged people to go to the beach.

00:22:56.240 But no, the beaches were closed.

00:22:57.720 Then they opened them and said, you can go, but you have to stand apart.

00:23:00.380 You can't lay a towel down.

00:23:01.780 It's disgusting incompetence behind those decisions.

00:23:04.520 But anyway, I retweeted a physician who during that April closure went out, pretended to be homeless so the police wouldn't bother him so he could go out and walk on the beach without a mask.

00:23:14.940 They do no enforcement on homeless.

00:23:17.980 We have no ability to treat them.

00:23:21.320 Most are drug addicted.

00:23:22.380 I go on I very frequently will go out on Skid Row and assess what's going on there.

00:23:26.820 It's nearly all drug addiction out there.

00:23:28.720 And meth is the primary drug, opiates and fentanyl, the next drug.

00:23:32.660 And they they are sick and need treatment and are dying at six a day in L.A.

00:23:37.900 County. Six a day.

00:23:39.120 If that were a hospital, let's we were essentially running an outdoor hospital.

00:23:43.600 If that were a hospital, there is no physicians involved in the organizations that allocate resources to that group.

00:23:49.500 There was one is Department of Mental Health, but he was sort of marginalized.

00:23:53.500 Not a nine, not a medical doctor, not a internist.

00:23:57.020 He was a psychiatrist.

00:23:58.200 But anyway, but that's all no physicians involved.

00:24:00.600 If there were a hospital where six people were dying a day and you were doing nothing to change that and no physicians were involved in the care of these people.

00:24:08.680 Can you imagine that?

00:24:10.080 That's what we have.

00:24:10.900 An outdoor hospital with people being untreated, allowed to die at six a day.

00:24:15.120 I think it's negligent homicide.

00:24:16.820 I just think it's it's manslaughter on a certain level because they know they know what's going on.

00:24:21.760 And they consistently every day, six more people die.

00:24:24.600 And every year, the rate of daily death goes up by one.

00:24:28.060 Last year was five per day.

00:24:29.060 Now it's six per day.

00:24:30.280 We have no ability to bring people in.

00:24:32.540 The Blanchement Pest for Short Act has been eviscerated.

00:24:35.180 So we can't bring people in against their will.

00:24:37.360 And when you're drug addicted and when you're severely psychotic and when you're on meth, you have something called anisognosia, which blocks your ability.

00:24:45.040 It's a neurological phenomenon that blocks the ability to perceive what's happening to you.

00:24:50.460 Same thing happens in dementia.

00:24:52.340 We don't if we don't go after the demented patient with anisognosia, we are guilty of elder abuse.

00:24:58.580 We're guilty of abusing that patient, allowing them to wander in the street till they get hit by a car.

00:25:02.900 If they have schizophrenia or drug addiction, can't go near them, can't go near them.

00:25:07.340 And the term gravely disabled, which is how we used to bring people into treatment with these conditions, completely eviscerated.

00:25:14.980 You can't you have to be imminently trying to hurt yourself or somebody else.

00:25:19.040 And if you just say, I no longer want to do that.

00:25:21.320 I have a tent.

00:25:22.200 I can go to McDonald's for a dollar.

00:25:24.060 Then you're out.

00:25:25.100 That's it.

00:25:25.540 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:25:27.060 So the mandatory hold isn't really worth the paper it's printed on, because if I get in there and say I was just joking, then you're out.

00:25:33.920 We've seen that.

00:25:34.580 We've seen that with some of these school shooters lately where they just say I was joking and they get out in there and then we see what happens later.

00:25:41.120 So San Francisco, can we talk about this for a second?

00:25:43.560 They it's such a mess.

00:25:45.300 They just recalled their D.A., but the homelessness there.

00:25:47.780 I mean, it's why Schellenberger wrote that book, San Francisco, sicko.

00:25:51.020 And when he was on a few months ago, he talked about this taxpayer funded center where you could go and you could basically get your illegal drugs.

00:26:02.340 You could get your you get your needles.

00:26:04.360 And it was it became like a safe haven for druggies.

00:26:08.820 And this this activist, this is a person named Ricky Wynn, 37, self-described recovering addict who now sees the problems happening in that city.

00:26:21.020 And now Ricky posts videos of open air drug markets and piles of garbage and the needles that are left behind.

00:26:28.620 And this the latest video from Ricky shows children, elementary school children walking past dozens of sickly users nodding out on the sidewalk.

00:26:39.320 We're going to show it to you.

00:26:40.540 I mean, you tell me whether you would want your kid getting off the school bus to this.

00:26:45.020 Watch.

00:26:45.240 Get home safe.

00:26:52.840 They got to walk through this shit.

00:26:56.500 Come on, man.

00:27:04.260 These little kids got to walk through this shit.

00:27:06.160 This shit is crazy.

00:27:08.140 Yeah, that is crazy.

00:27:09.780 Yeah, that's that's that's Los Angeles.

00:27:13.700 If you want to go out to dinner, you get to walk through that.

00:27:15.640 That's wherever you go.

00:27:16.700 That's in that's California.

00:27:18.280 Now, here's the thing.

00:27:19.860 Those I don't think that was one of the the safe injection.

00:27:23.880 That wasn't one of the safe havens.

00:27:25.340 That was just San Francisco.

00:27:26.400 But the safe haven that the Schellenberger was railing about is now closing.

00:27:32.060 It's going to close by the end of the year.

00:27:33.340 It was a total disaster.

00:27:34.420 Even San Francisco's London, London Breed, the mayor, had to admit disaster.

00:27:39.900 It was, I think, 19 million of taxpayer cash put into this.

00:27:43.360 They treated one one in every one thousand users.

00:27:45.920 They failed to cut the fatal overdose numbers.

00:27:48.480 It was a complete and utter disaster, as so many predicted it would be.

00:27:52.560 These light on crime look the other way, like fund drug habit policies have fallen through in every single instance in which they've been tried.

00:28:01.640 So so here's where that came from.

00:28:04.580 It came from an idealization of similar programs in Vancouver and in Portugal.

00:28:09.780 Both were abject failures.

00:28:12.760 And here's the thing that everyone misses about the addicts on the street.

00:28:16.900 Everyone.

00:28:17.860 And I cannot emphasize this strongly enough.

00:28:20.840 And that is that, of course, it took time for those Portuguese programs and that Canadian program to fail.

00:28:26.980 Because addiction in all situations is a progressive illness.

00:28:33.580 There's no such thing as letting somebody shoot heroin and the disease remains static.

00:28:39.400 That's not how it works.

00:28:41.000 It progresses.

00:28:42.380 It has a persistent, erosive effect on the brain and body.

00:28:46.740 So the thinking, the ability to fight off infection, all these things get worse and it ends in death.

00:28:54.360 It's a progressive illness, opiate addiction, opioid use disorder, particularly a progressive illness that ends in death.

00:29:02.500 Now, there are risk reduction measures and harm avoidance measures that have some utility and can be used in cases that can't, you know, can't be reasonably safely brought to full recovery.

00:29:13.260 Yes, that's different.

00:29:14.840 That's not continuing the practice of their underlying illness.

00:29:18.900 There have been wethouses around for everybody for alcoholics.

00:29:21.400 You let them come in and you drink, and here's what they do there.

00:29:24.280 They descend on them and work on their motivation and get them to stop.

00:29:29.300 That's what those wethouses were for, and they kind of were. 1.00

00:29:32.400 And if they don't, the person dies.

00:29:34.620 They progress and they die.

00:29:36.540 You have to understand, giving the drug of choice will have a progressive quality that ends in death, whether it's alcohol or opiate.

00:29:44.380 This is supposed to be the humane approach to this issue.

00:29:48.000 Yeah, negligent, negligent, negligence, negligence.

00:29:51.640 And I, I, I, I'm not a lawyer, but I look, if I were, if I were running a program that had those kinds of outcomes.

00:30:01.020 Are you kidding?

00:30:02.020 Forget malpractice.

00:30:02.960 I would be, they would come after me criminally.

00:30:05.100 But that's the reality.

00:30:07.680 And London Breed can condemn this all she wants, but, you know, the voters are going to ultimately be asked whether she should be held accountable for these policies. 1.00

00:30:14.620 You know, whether it's the crime in San Francisco or the homelessness or what these kids are walking home past, whether she should be held accountable for that or not.

00:30:23.480 And it won't, it won't just be London Breed.

00:30:26.100 All right, much, much more with Dr. Drew after a very quick break.

00:30:29.120 There's a lot to get to today.

00:30:30.300 I feel like I'm so glad you're here because there's so many things I want to talk to you about.

00:30:33.140 All right, stand by.

00:30:35.100 One of the things that we need to talk about is what's been in the news lately, and that is all these school shooters and the mass shootings.

00:30:46.740 And we know it's a contagion.

00:30:47.960 We know that when you see one, you're going to see several more.

00:30:51.480 And I had Gavin DeBecker on the show recently, you know, the world's most preeminent security expert who is predicting that as well.

00:30:57.540 And then we had another one in Highland Park, Illinois, over the Fourth of July holiday.

00:31:02.160 Jordan Peterson has got a lot of interesting thoughts on school shooters and mass shooters in general.

00:31:09.680 And he's with me for a long, long time.

00:31:12.860 I have not been saying the name of school shooters because I read guys like this a long, long time ago, and I knew not to do it.

00:31:19.200 And Anderson Cooper, to his credit, he's been doing it along with me.

00:31:23.680 Ben Shapiro, when he launched Daily Wire, followed the same policy.

00:31:26.660 And Jordan Peterson has spoken out about this, saying he contacted the Canadian broadcast company, saying, you're part of the problem.

00:31:34.200 You're part of the problem.

00:31:34.940 You're encouraging, as Gavin DeBecker would later describe it to me, sort of the loner loser staying at home who's a, quote, a nobody, into recognizing they could be famous.

00:31:46.320 They don't care about infamous versus fame.

00:31:47.940 They could be famous if they do it.

00:31:49.440 This isn't exactly what Jordan says in this clip, but he is sort of getting into the psychology behind the mass shooter in a way that I think is interesting.

00:31:56.380 And I wanted to ask you what you think.

00:31:58.320 Here's Jordan.

00:31:58.740 My understanding of their psychology is that they're resentful, they're low down on the status hierarchy, they're not attractive to potential mates, they're not necessarily very popular, and they don't have a lot of hope for attaining any of that in the future.

00:32:20.660 So they're very, very frustrated by that lowly position.

00:32:25.560 And that makes them angry, it makes them resentful.

00:32:28.280 Then it starts to generate compensatory fantasies, which would be, well, I'll do something, I'll show them, I'll show them, I'll show them.

00:32:35.460 I'm going to be famous, everybody's going to know who I am.

00:32:38.280 And then they drift, and they drift into, they can drift into these violent fantasies.

00:32:43.900 Sometimes that's motivated also by thoughts of direct revenge, because they've been bullied and they've been pushed around.

00:32:49.260 And so they have reasons to be angry, let's say.

00:32:53.120 No, I'm not saying any of this is justified, by the way, I'm just saying how it works.

00:32:56.820 And then they brood for months, weeks, months, and years, developing these fantasies of violence.

00:33:04.220 But more importantly, focusing on the consequences for notoriety of the violent act.

00:33:11.280 Even though it's notorious, it's hatred, the idea is, I'd rather be dead and infamous than alive and anonymous.

00:33:22.140 What do you make of that?

00:33:23.240 Yeah.

00:33:23.980 As usual, Jordan Peterson is spot on.

00:33:26.880 That has been my experience as well.

00:33:28.500 The notoriety piece, I have not noticed as much.

00:33:31.300 And again, we're talking about the kinds of shooters we have seen of late.

00:33:35.600 There is another layer in here, though, which troubles me greatly, which is, you know, remember the Denver shooter that he thought he was the Joker?

00:33:45.120 He was absolutely psychotic.

00:33:46.440 He was a neuroscience student who became psychotic, who was referred to a psychiatrist, referred to the school system that is supposed to capture people that are mentally ill.

00:33:56.100 And, of course, the system said, oh, he's just fine.

00:33:58.900 He's just a kid with a fantasy.

00:34:00.380 He ends up shooting up a theater, believing, literally believing he is the Joker.

00:34:04.360 That's part of the psychotic fantasy he was in.

00:34:07.060 These other kids we've seen lately, remember Parkland?

00:34:10.180 That kid was chronically in mental health services, doing well until his mother died.

00:34:15.740 And at that point, no one could urge him into treatment.

00:34:18.760 He decompensates.

00:34:20.040 He becomes violent.

00:34:20.980 And behind a lot of the shooters is a similar kind of thinking to what Jordan Peterson was talking about, which is resentment, revenge, violent fantasies that finally become compelling to them.

00:34:33.960 Notoriety, I suspect, is just sort of the last piece.

00:34:37.860 It's not the fundamental piece, but it's the piece that allows them to say to themselves, it'll be fine because they'll all know that I'm showing them.

00:34:45.920 It'll be it'll be known widely that I was angry.

00:34:48.620 And I don't know what we do about that, because whether it's suicide or cutting or eating disorders or shooting, they all have a contagion.

00:34:57.360 Most as with most human, any human behaviors, like extreme behaviors, they have a contagion potential.

00:35:03.360 What do you what do you make of Jordan saying is if you look at the expanded remarks, he thinks if the news media would stop putting them on TV and saying the names that the school shootings would, quote, stop.

00:35:17.200 Do you agree with that?

00:35:19.180 I don't. Yeah, I don't think that's enough.

00:35:21.080 I think it would help.

00:35:22.240 I think it's very helpful because he's right that it seems like that piece does play a motivational role.

00:35:27.680 But I listen, just just Parkland and Denver, those were totally psychotic kids that really were not even thinking about those sorts of things at the time.

00:35:38.480 They were too psychotic to be thinking about that.

00:35:40.320 Or they would have rolled in some other motivation that would have made sense to them at the time.

00:35:45.300 But I do think that the the Highland Park shooter.

00:35:50.200 Yeah, I think there might have made a difference.

00:35:52.360 Now we're learning more about him.

00:35:54.340 And as I say, we don't say the names, but we are learning more about the background.

00:35:57.620 And that's that's important to discuss to discuss his.

00:36:01.120 His his mother.

00:36:05.140 Reportedly in 2002, left him in the car when he was two for nearly 30 minutes on an 80 degree day, she was charged for that.

00:36:14.500 He lived and it's unclear whether that hot car incident left him with any physical or mental injuries.

00:36:19.920 But they also add that police were called to this family's home 10 times in response to reports of domestic violence in which the mother allegedly attacked the husband one time with a screwdriver, one time hit him in the head with a shoe after he berated her looks.

00:36:38.620 Physical disputes on and on between the mother and father, including one drunken altercation.

00:36:44.280 And yeah, again, this is where he the dad claimed she had hit him in the head with her shoe and she she told police he had disrespected and belittled her.

00:36:52.940 The husband had by making disparaging remarks about her appearance, comments she claimed spurred her to drink.

00:36:59.080 Then there's a report from September of 2019 showing that the shooter, then 18, confessed that he had threatened to kill everyone in his family.

00:37:10.100 And somehow this brought law enforcement into his life.

00:37:12.500 I don't know if he was reported for it, but he told cops he had been depressed when he made the threats three days prior and nothing came of it.

00:37:20.900 I assume you're not surprised to hear domestic violence in his past drinking, heavy drinking by the mother, an incident in the car, the hot car, neglect and so on.

00:37:30.440 I have a million thoughts, but the most disturbing is that people that have overt thoughts of fantasy with a plan.

00:37:36.960 I don't think they should have access to firearms for specified periods of time and they should be highly supervised and that supervision should be mandated.

00:37:47.500 And the fact that we don't do that is is how people are going to die, including the patients, including the individuals themselves.

00:37:53.040 There's there's a very close association between homicide and suicide.

00:37:56.820 You know, you just don't care about life.

00:37:59.100 Yeah, I've got I've got a million thoughts about this.

00:38:01.360 You know, when it comes to, you know, it's been 35 years working in a psychiatric hospital, even though I'm an internist, I worked in that setting for many years.

00:38:07.940 And I would say, generally speaking, because we argue all day about the mom was had something going on and whether that was an inherited thing that the kid got.

00:38:16.160 But in general, I would say about in general, when it comes to mental health issues, it's about 60 percent is genetic and about 40 percent is environment.

00:38:24.900 And usually the environment is necessary to sort of trigger the genetic potential.

00:38:29.220 And only recently in the last 15 years or so has the medical community been talking about adverse childhood experiences.

00:38:36.440 We finally came up with a study out of Kaiser in California that showed, guess what?

00:38:40.540 If you have three or more adverse childhood experiences, your probability of measurable severe mental health consequences and physical health consequences go up dramatically.

00:38:50.280 Well, what's an adverse childhood experience?

00:38:52.080 Things that we're in denial about, frankly, a divorce be a family member in law enforcement.

00:38:57.320 C, a family member using drugs or alcohol.

00:39:01.480 D, whether or not there's any domestic abuse, let alone domestic violence in the home.

00:39:07.820 Abandonment, neglect.

00:39:09.160 They're just so and then you can get the more severe adverse childhood experiences, physical abuse, sexual abuse, these sorts of things.

00:39:15.500 But it is not just those things.

00:39:17.380 It's these other issues that we minimize.

00:39:19.860 Oh, so so dad spent a couple of years in jail.

00:39:22.520 Oh, mom drank a little bit.

00:39:24.000 Those are profoundly impactful on child development.

00:39:27.860 Hmm.

00:39:29.020 You know, I want to talk to you about this.

00:39:30.840 I'm very interested.

00:39:31.580 I totally agree with you that these people not only should not have access to guns, people who have identified as potential shooters and who have said, I want to I want to kill my entire family.

00:39:39.760 Or as we saw in the Uvalde case, I want to kill.

00:39:43.460 I want to kill everybody at my school.

00:39:44.580 Um, so we need we need a system that institutionalizes those young men.

00:39:52.000 They're almost I can't think of a situation in which it was anything other than a young man in the school's setting.

00:39:56.940 So how do we do that?

00:39:58.800 Like, how how could it work?

00:40:00.460 Well, I mean, you're a lawyer, so I defer to the legal minds in this.

00:40:06.460 But I would just say that let's look back at the Parkland kid.

00:40:11.020 When that kid was in treatment, he got better.

00:40:14.340 His violent fantasies went away.

00:40:16.380 He didn't need access to guns.

00:40:18.000 So the fact that those were restricted becomes moot.

00:40:20.380 They should just be restricted.

00:40:22.660 And I don't I whether they are reinstated, I guess, is up to the patient and the physician to determine that.

00:40:29.360 And how we would then go about that is is a very complex issue.

00:40:33.760 Well, the gun issue, I mean, that that that can be up to the legislatures.

00:40:37.300 And I feel like at some point, instead of this, like, random legislation that may or may not get to the actual shooters, we do need focused.

00:40:44.100 You know, they call it focused protection on COVID, the Great Barrington.

00:40:46.840 And we need focused institutionalization for these people.

00:40:50.740 But but but what about that?

00:40:53.460 Like, how do we get them behind mental health facility bars?

00:40:57.300 You know, like we can stop them from getting the guns.

00:40:59.360 I do believe we can stop them from get.

00:41:00.860 But how do we get them behind bars?

00:41:03.280 I do a streaming show at three o'clock Pacific time every day, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.

00:41:08.640 And I interviewed a psychiatrist from Great Britain and they routinely refer people into treatment where they are residential.

00:41:16.840 They're actually kept for months, two years.

00:41:19.420 And guess what?

00:41:20.640 They get better in the vast majority of cases and they are no longer a threat to anybody when they're properly treated.

00:41:26.880 They think differently.

00:41:27.720 They have insight into what's going on.

00:41:29.380 The brain heals extremely slowly.

00:41:32.040 It takes a long time to recover from these things.

00:41:35.060 And the ones that clearly are not recovering, they keep them in some sort of restricted care.

00:41:39.900 In this country, you're not.

00:41:42.280 We do not have adequate numbers of psychiatrists.

00:41:44.440 We don't have adequate number of psychiatric beds.

00:41:46.460 We don't have residential treatment in most states.

00:41:48.460 And we don't allow the medical system to come in and help these people in some in some situations.

00:41:55.980 They have something called assisted outpatient treatment, AOT, where judges, when people get into a legal problem, maybe too late already.

00:42:04.320 But when they get into the system, the judges are able to refer them to mandated assisted outpatient treatment.

00:42:10.780 And those people get better.

00:42:13.000 So at least, at least AOT, some sort of mandated care once you get into trouble.

00:42:20.860 Then for those who are not yet in trouble, we need to have some ability to find motivational sources and family input to get them in.

00:42:30.560 In California right now, back to the craziness in my state, when you go, families go to the state all the time begging the state to allow them to have the ability

00:42:40.520 to get their family member off the street and bring them home and give them a bed of food and a medical system that they're ready to provide for them.

00:42:50.480 And they are told to get out of here.

00:42:52.920 Scram.

00:42:53.640 Who do you think you are?

00:42:54.780 They're living their best life.

00:42:56.000 Who are you to say how they should live?

00:42:57.800 Not understanding that when somebody is sick, the brain doesn't work right and not even allow families to come in and help out to me is disgusting.

00:43:07.520 Oh, well, and I mean, then you've got situations like this.

00:43:11.220 This guy's family, the one I just went through, the one who shot a parade in Highland Park, where you got the dad helping him get his license for his firearm after knowing that he was suicidal, that he was potentially homicidal.

00:43:25.620 I mean, that's disgusting that that we really should have a talk about whether we expand the criminal law in a way that would get a dad like that, just so that there's there's skin in the game.

00:43:33.260 Apparently, the thought of mass deaths isn't enough.

00:43:36.900 Maybe if his own hide was on the line, he'd behave differently.

00:43:40.380 And oftentimes the parents, if you look at Sandy Hook, parent ends up dead because she didn't treat the kid, didn't mandate, didn't get him into care.

00:43:49.460 Yeah, that's right.

00:43:50.620 There has to be some accountability.

00:43:53.420 The denial has to get broken through on the family, the family.

00:43:56.940 And there's often parents behind the scenes going, oh, he's just an unusual guy, just a creative kid.

00:44:03.300 Oh, come on, stop it. 0.88

00:44:04.480 He's fine.

00:44:05.700 Minimizing, denying.

00:44:06.940 And we have to have mechanisms to break through that because that that really is part of the problem.

00:44:11.680 And you're pointing it out very clearly.

00:44:14.420 What about I've sort of and you were making this distinction at the top.

00:44:18.740 There's the kids who are depressed and bullied and alone and sad and feel unpopular.

00:44:23.100 Then there are the psychotic kids or the sociopaths.

00:44:27.180 And you can't be therapized out of being a sociopath.

00:44:30.640 No.

00:44:30.840 So what do we do with them?

00:44:32.500 Well, you can.

00:44:33.680 Sociopaths can improve. 0.77

00:44:34.780 Psychopaths do not.

00:44:36.240 And like I said, in Great Britain, they keep them under supervision.

00:44:39.200 They keep them in restricted circumstances.

00:44:41.440 And those are usually people that have offended and are obviously there's legal recourse to keep them in the system.

00:44:47.660 But look, there's such a thing as a pro social psychopath.

00:44:51.180 You ever heard that term?

00:44:52.120 No, no, no.

00:44:53.400 So psychopaths at their core, they have difficulty experiencing the content of other people's minds.

00:44:59.820 They don't really appreciate that you have feelings or when it's sort of more sociopathic and not psychopathic, they don't care that your mind has content.

00:45:08.000 They only care about them.

00:45:09.820 And these are narcissistic disorders.

00:45:12.240 But if it serves them, if they get their needs met, they can learn to be extremely moral and rigidly so because they don't have the usual sort of emotional sensibility about morality that the rest of us do.

00:45:25.000 It's a very cognitive, rigid organization for them.

00:45:28.980 And they sort of set their compass and they can be very rigid about it, provided that they find that it serves their needs.

00:45:37.180 So there is some potential to help these people.

00:45:40.180 But most of that really needs to be done early, to be fair.

00:45:43.680 Oh, that's fascinating.

00:45:44.600 So if you because I know, I mean, I've interviewed these parents who give birth to children they know are sociopaths, like have absolutely no empathy and maybe potential psychopaths and are torturing the family cat.

00:45:55.820 But are you telling me, like, in the hands of the right parent, such a child could be programmed to be rigidly moral and, you know, to make only good decisions?

00:46:05.720 Specifically can't say it as you've constructed it.

00:46:08.560 What I can say is there appears to be some environmental component that would help move somebody in that direction.

00:46:16.360 There are many I'm not going to name names because it's going to it would be too much.

00:46:20.260 Like, but but I have talked to psychopath experts that pointed a few of our former presidents ago.

00:46:25.440 That's a pro-social psychopath.

00:46:26.960 That's what that is.

00:46:27.820 Oh, my gosh.

00:46:28.380 I can think of a few, honestly, like and not not just recent.

00:46:31.380 I mean, I just I can think of a few, too, that I've wondered because didn't we talk about this before?

00:46:35.980 How narcissism is kind of on the line of some of these issues that we're talking about.

00:46:41.520 And you kind of have to be a narcissist in order to become president and want to be president in the first place.

00:46:46.580 Yes. And you have to be a little manic, too.

00:46:48.660 I mean, one of my favorite presidents, Teddy Roosevelt, he was narcissistic as hell.

00:46:52.380 He was manic as hell.

00:46:54.020 You know, when he was police commissioner in New York City, wandered the streets at night and beat up criminals on his own.

00:46:59.580 It was manic, crazy, narcissistic stuff.

00:47:02.560 And yeah, so you kind of you want it for your fighter pilots.

00:47:06.000 You want it for your general sometimes.

00:47:08.260 And sometimes you want it for your president.

00:47:09.860 So it's not when you make these assessments, that's why I always said about assessing the the the psychological construct of presidents and their personality makeup.

00:47:18.500 Be careful. You may want some of that on board.

00:47:20.540 Careful what you wish for.

00:47:22.020 Yeah. So much more to go over, including the latest craziness with covid.

00:47:25.460 It's coming back to a town near you, unfortunately.

00:47:28.720 So we'll get into it.

00:47:30.000 But in the meantime, don't forget that you can find the Megan Kelly show live on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 111 every weekday at noon east and the full video show and clips by subscribing to our YouTube channel, YouTube dot com slash Megan Kelly.

00:47:44.760 If you haven't seen the video we posted last Monday of our Fourth of July celebration, you should check it out.

00:47:50.920 You will laugh if you prefer an audio podcast.

00:47:53.740 Follow and download our show on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcast.

00:48:00.200 It's free.

00:48:01.460 And there you're going to find our full archives, by the way, with more than 350 shows.

00:48:05.060 You can leave me a comment and getting a lot of great ones.

00:48:07.860 I really appreciate it, including you can check out the first time Dr.

00:48:11.460 Drew was on, which was episode 141, which I think was last summer because I feel like I was here in the Jersey studio for that.

00:48:19.880 I remember enjoyed it just as much as today.

00:48:23.740 So, Dr. Drew, COVID, as much as I've moved on, you've probably moved on.

00:48:32.380 Most of America has moved on.

00:48:33.720 And in fact, in that New York Times Siena College poll, they showed that COVID is now the top issue for exactly one percent of those polled.

00:48:42.240 Again, these are Democrats, just one percent.

00:48:44.120 So I'm hoping that it won't resurrect itself, you know, in any meaningful way come fall.

00:48:50.800 But it's starting to in the more blue, blue, blue cities like L.A. and New York.

00:48:55.720 And the latest out of New York City.

00:48:57.120 This is from NBC, the B.A. point five sub variant of Omicron, the variant that's Omicron.

00:49:04.720 And this is sub variant.

00:49:05.860 The A. point five appears to escape immunity and transmit more easily, leading some to call it the worst version of Omicron.

00:49:14.760 All five New York counties have been added back to the CDC's high risk category for COVID spread.

00:49:21.720 This is just this past Friday.

00:49:23.500 Face masks are now again recommended for everyone indoors in New York City and in any public setting, regardless of vaccination status.

00:49:35.260 They want the masks back.

00:49:37.480 They don't care whether you're vaccinated.

00:49:39.560 They haven't yet mandated it.

00:49:41.540 But some of their left are freaking out that it's not a mandate.

00:49:44.140 So that could very well come.

00:49:45.920 And if these numbers go up more, I bet it will.

00:49:48.900 What do you make of it?

00:49:50.420 Well, I think it's important that we all have a certain amount of humility when we talk about COVID, because this this thing is nefarious and it changes.

00:49:56.800 And, you know, it's very hard to predict what's going on.

00:49:59.100 But let me just a couple of thoughts.

00:50:01.000 The are not on this thing is something like 17.

00:50:03.060 Masks aren't going to do much with this thing.

00:50:05.660 And let's be clear.

00:50:06.420 The research shows very clearly the paper and surgical masks and cloth masks that everybody wears do next to nothing.

00:50:14.140 That if you want to protect yourself, you can with a properly fitting N95 mask worn religiously.

00:50:21.600 You have to wear it absolutely perfectly at all times.

00:50:24.040 You can protect yourself.

00:50:25.680 You're doing next to nothing for other people.

00:50:27.620 You're protecting yourself.

00:50:28.580 Just like when we go into a room with infectious disease in the hospital.

00:50:31.560 We don't mask the patient.

00:50:33.540 We put on the N95 mask and that protects us as caretakers.

00:50:37.200 So that's the one issue, the mask issue.

00:50:39.320 The other is the BA5 is here.

00:50:41.000 It's really coming on fast.

00:50:42.740 It is highly infectious, as I said.

00:50:44.780 And I've seen a lot of it.

00:50:45.840 I've seen a lot of it already.

00:50:47.000 And here's where things are different.

00:50:48.600 In people who are unvaccinated, I've seen some nasty BA5, but treatable.

00:50:53.500 We have a monoclonal antibody that is still effective against it.

00:50:56.880 We have Paxilvid.

00:50:58.120 We have molupiravir.

00:50:59.540 Nobody's ending up in the ICU, or very few people are.

00:51:02.820 And so it's a completely different circumstance.

00:51:04.820 And even though I've seen some nasty cases of BA5, the majority of what I've seen has been

00:51:09.960 like a nasty cold.

00:51:11.400 And that's been it.

00:51:12.700 And so for us to fly into another panic, here's where they tried to get us.

00:51:16.560 I don't know if you saw this last week, but a study came out and said, oh, my goodness,

00:51:20.900 if you've had COVID, you have a high probability of having end organ damage the rest of your

00:51:26.560 life.

00:51:27.280 Did you see that study?

00:51:28.600 No.

00:51:28.920 Did you see it?

00:51:29.760 Okay.

00:51:30.160 Well, it was out, and it circulated fast.

00:51:32.580 I started getting letters from people going, oh, you've had COVID twice.

00:51:35.120 Be careful.

00:51:35.920 Look, it's not what we see clinically.

00:51:39.160 I want to be humble in the face of this illness, but it is not what we see clinically.

00:51:44.420 And there was a study that I believe I read it in the New England Journal about two weeks

00:51:48.000 ago that showed what we are seeing is if you have bad COVID and you end up in the ICU and

00:51:53.940 on a ventilator, the probability of end organ problems, neurological problems, all the things

00:51:59.280 that we see after somebody's been in the ICU is the same for COVID as any other severe ICU

00:52:05.980 illness.

00:52:06.940 So it's not that COVID-

00:52:07.760 What's an end organ problem?

00:52:10.060 Brain, liver, kidney, that we're seeing dysfunction.

00:52:13.240 And they, of course, they focus on the brain because the brain is injured.

00:52:16.640 There's a microvascular injury, just like a, looks like getting hit in the head and people

00:52:20.880 recover just fine from it.

00:52:22.380 This was the thing we remember earlier in our conversation, I was talking about how the,

00:52:25.720 the pediatric vaccine specialist and public health officials are scared to death of these

00:52:30.880 neurological speakers.

00:52:31.980 Your brain will shrink.

00:52:33.200 They showed it in England.

00:52:34.320 And guess what?

00:52:35.260 Yes, that happens after a lot of severe illnesses.

00:52:36.880 And then we recover.

00:52:38.200 We compensate.

00:52:39.000 Happens a lot in adult medicine.

00:52:40.620 This is not something, strictly speaking, unique to COVID.

00:52:44.080 However, I'll say it again, we should be humble in the face of this illness.

00:52:47.740 There's been a lot of surprises and twists and turns with it.

00:52:51.080 The mandatory vaccinations are still being required in several professions, most schools.

00:52:57.500 I mean, the military, the military enrollment is down at like record low numbers in the

00:53:02.940 army, in the Navy, in the Air Force.

00:53:05.020 The Marines, I think, is the only one that's on track to hit its recruitment numbers this

00:53:08.820 year.

00:53:09.100 And they're saying in part, I mean, in part, it's because of the wokeness in the military.

00:53:12.460 There's a whole report out on this and they've asked some congressmen who are in the know

00:53:16.560 and connected.

00:53:17.500 But in part, it's because of the vaccine mandates and these young people don't think they need 0.90

00:53:21.000 it and they don't want it.

00:53:21.780 And so on.

00:53:23.120 And this in the wake of Vinay Prasad, you mentioned earlier, he tweeted this out in

00:53:26.620 May.

00:53:27.540 CDC study didn't get a lot of attention.

00:53:29.920 We all know why that showed the second dose of the vaccine.

00:53:33.480 This is a Pfizer, but the same for all of them.

00:53:35.740 Second dose of the vaccine has zero effectiveness against Omicron by three months after the second

00:53:42.860 shot.

00:53:43.640 OK, so you tell some guy to join the Navy, you have to be double vaxxed.

00:53:49.040 And he says, OK, I'll do it.

00:53:50.780 And he gets he doesn't really want to do it, but he does it.

00:53:53.380 And three months after that second shot, he has zero protection against Omicron, which

00:53:58.820 is really the variant that we're dealing with.

00:54:00.780 What the hell is the point of this?

00:54:03.020 Look, there is even more damning data that shows that the second vaccine, particularly

00:54:08.220 at the duration, the distance we're taking that second vaccine from the first markedly

00:54:13.720 increased the risk of myocarditis in young men.

00:54:16.360 Again, this is this look, I sort of look at it as in the initial phases of alpha and

00:54:22.140 even delta.

00:54:23.020 It was sort of wartime decision making.

00:54:25.500 I mean, people were willing to take a lot of risk with this vaccine to try to get us

00:54:29.180 out of this.

00:54:29.940 And I think that was probably appropriate.

00:54:32.420 Now, the same risk, maybe more are being taken.

00:54:36.000 And is that appropriate now with a vaccine that we know has a certain amount of problems

00:54:40.120 with it?

00:54:40.520 That it's it.

00:54:41.280 This is not there is no perfectly safe vaccine.

00:54:43.700 And the mRNA vaccines and frankly, most of the spike protein vaccines have their problems.

00:54:49.920 What I find interesting also, and I don't understand why they're delaying Covaxin and

00:54:54.980 and the Novavax and the inhaled and intranasal vaccine.

00:54:59.040 What what is going on with the CDC?

00:55:00.700 They rush the two out and then and then Johnson and Johnson.

00:55:04.140 And we know what happened with that one.

00:55:05.420 And then these other ones that look like really good alternatives might be safer, don't require

00:55:09.780 two vaccines necessarily there.

00:55:12.120 They don't seem to be in any hurry to bring that out.

00:55:14.860 In the meantime, all these mandates are underway.

00:55:17.140 That seem sort of illogical in the face of the data we now have.

00:55:22.400 Yeah, I don't know.

00:55:22.980 And vaccinating young kids.

00:55:24.580 Those are hard decisions to make.

00:55:26.220 I don't know how you make that decision.

00:55:27.440 I'm glad I'm not making those decisions.

00:55:29.240 No, it's very.

00:55:30.200 Trust me, as the mother of three young children, I I'm angry about the position I'm being put in.

00:55:35.560 Our school, our boy's school just sent out.

00:55:38.360 They're doubling down on their mandatory vaccination policy.

00:55:41.480 They don't they don't get expelled for not having it until they're 16.

00:55:46.240 And my oldest child is 12, almost 13.

00:55:49.580 But you can kiss school sports goodbye.

00:55:52.540 You can kiss field trips goodbye.

00:55:54.440 And so, you know, they're they're trying to twist all of our arms into doing it at the

00:55:59.520 youngest age possible.

00:56:00.520 They don't care.

00:56:01.400 They don't care.

00:56:01.700 My little guy's eight.

00:56:02.440 They want me to stick a needle in him twice so that he can go on the damn field trip.

00:56:06.720 I mean, it's it's infuriating.

00:56:08.600 Well, it's infuriating.

00:56:09.580 And this is more of what was so awful about the covid experience, which was the risk reward

00:56:15.020 analysis was completely obliterated.

00:56:17.500 And the decision making was being being carried out by people that have no experience making

00:56:24.600 these kinds of decisions.

00:56:26.100 If if somebody were to say to you, Miss Kelly, go go go work with your pediatrician and you

00:56:31.500 and the pediatrician decide what you want to do.

00:56:33.440 Perfect.

00:56:33.840 And maybe that pediatrician is a little aggressive and says, I think you ought to do it.

00:56:37.360 Let me show you why.

00:56:38.340 Let me convince you why you and that pediatrician would decide what to do as opposed to some

00:56:44.300 bureaucrat who's not a medical person or if they are medical.

00:56:48.780 But the director of public health in L.A.

00:56:51.320 County is a sociologist.

00:56:53.000 She has zero clinical experience.

00:56:55.180 Let me follow up with you on that.

00:56:56.900 What's the American Society of Pediatrics?

00:56:59.500 American Academy of Pediatrics has been absolutely disgusting throughout this whole thing.

00:57:03.820 Everything they say is the most wokeified AOC type recommendation you could possibly look

00:57:09.320 for.

00:57:09.780 So I don't I've lost some faith in them.

00:57:12.700 And while I love my individual pediatrician, he's very pro vaccine for everything.

00:57:18.820 I told the audience a couple of weeks ago just on our wellness visit, you know, you do your

00:57:22.260 annual wellness visit for your kids.

00:57:24.000 He wanted our 12 year old to get the HPV vaccine.

00:57:26.580 I'm like, I'm not he's a boy, first of all, you listen, I'm telling you the incidence of

00:57:33.140 head and neck cancer and penile cancer is way up in men.

00:57:36.940 Get that vaccine.

00:57:38.160 Maximum effectiveness, age 10 to 14.

00:57:41.220 If you miss that window, you're not going to protect him against cancers that are becoming

00:57:45.760 increasingly common head and neck cancers.

00:57:48.400 You don't want it.

00:57:49.060 Trust me.

00:57:49.540 There are.

00:57:50.220 No, I definitely don't.

00:57:51.200 I don't want any of that for my kids.

00:57:52.160 But there are serious side effects to the HPV vaccine.

00:57:55.820 I will.

00:57:57.440 I've spoken to you honestly about my concerns about the but the mRNA vaccines.

00:58:01.780 The HPV vaccine has one of the most stunningly positive safety profiles of any vaccine in

00:58:08.720 history.

00:58:09.320 It's one of the safest you can take.

00:58:11.340 And it prevents cancers.

00:58:13.460 I can't I can't believe that that we have resistance against this one.

00:58:16.920 That was the one that always bothered me because I'm a lot of people who talk about what happened

00:58:20.660 to their like if you if you read Michelle Malkin, she talks about what happened to her child.

00:58:24.080 There's a lot of people that's anecdotal, I realize.

00:58:25.980 But the reports of negative vaccine effects after HPV that the vaccination are pretty widespread.

00:58:31.960 I mean, like even my very good friend, a nurse is like, that's the only one you really

00:58:34.980 want to avoid.

00:58:36.240 I'm sure it's not zero, but because none of them are zero, none of them are zero.

00:58:40.400 But boy, you're going to have some very frank conversations with your sons because it's

00:58:46.480 the it is the incidence of head and neck cancer right now is really skyrocketing.

00:58:50.900 HPV vaccine prevents head.

00:58:52.700 What's head cancer?

00:58:53.860 Head and neck cancer, tongue, pharynx, larynx, throat.

00:58:57.580 This is this is way up right now.

00:59:00.240 Michael Douglas.

00:59:01.180 He has HPV related head and neck cancer and he has talked about it and people it doesn't

00:59:05.980 get really picked up by the press, but he has talked about it and that's what he has.

00:59:09.360 And it's it is common now.

00:59:11.160 And it's a terrible cancer.

00:59:12.660 You don't want it.

00:59:13.300 Basically, when you say 10 to 14, it's because you want him to have it before they become

00:59:17.560 sexually active.

00:59:18.360 Is that I mean, that's why that's it also yes, that is one aspect.

00:59:22.640 And the other aspect is you want to have it when it's maximally effective.

00:59:27.200 And that seems to be the maximum effectiveness.

00:59:29.500 But, you know, if we vaccinate all the females, maybe it gets very complicated. 0.98

00:59:33.780 This is probably not appropriate conversation.

00:59:36.080 It's kind of a medical conversation.

00:59:37.640 But you you do you do want to prevent this cancer.

00:59:40.840 And it is coming increasingly common in men.

00:59:43.440 Well, I take your point because we had Gavin DeBecker on who's not a doctor, but he was

00:59:47.180 ripping on it.

00:59:48.100 And now we have you on who's saying, no, no, no, I'm a doctor and there's a different

00:59:51.160 side.

00:59:51.480 And my own doctor wanted it.

00:59:52.480 But my own doctor had been very, very pro vaccine, even with the children, even with

00:59:56.200 my babe.

00:59:56.980 You know, this whole thing started.

00:59:58.160 He was what, six.

00:59:59.640 And I have serious doubts and I have serious doubts about the American Academy of Pediatrics.

01:00:04.940 And I, you know, I'm one of those moms like I'm not exactly sure who to trust on

01:00:07.940 this.

01:00:10.940 First time I got COVID, I got COVID because I was trying to get the vaccine, but I wasn't

01:00:16.040 I didn't measure up to their equity standards at the hospital where I work.

01:00:20.040 I was being pushed to the back of the line, even though I cared for COVID patients because

01:00:24.480 they had equity standards.

01:00:26.040 And I keep hearing that is motivating some of the need to vaccinate all children.

01:00:32.260 And I don't understand the logic.

01:00:33.980 I don't quite get it.

01:00:35.100 I heard it from our public health officials in Los Angeles.

01:00:37.560 And I thought, oh, this does not sound like a medical thing at all.

01:00:41.200 I don't know what it exactly is, but there's something going on there.

01:00:44.780 And I suspect the American Academy of Pediatrics may be in a similar mindset.

01:00:49.220 And the risk is so low to them of getting COVID.

01:00:51.680 It's like, yes, what's the point?

01:00:53.280 You know, of course, I want my 80 year old mother vaccinated.

01:00:55.720 And she is, by the way, today's her 81st birthday.

01:00:58.100 So happy birthday, Linda.

01:01:00.020 So and she is, of course, and she's boosted and all that stuff.

01:01:02.860 But that makes sense.

01:01:03.500 But not for the littles.

01:01:04.820 It makes so much less sense unless, you know, you can assess your own individual circumstances,

01:01:09.000 but we're not being allowed to do that.

01:01:10.760 And you look at things like what happened, what's happening now to Novak Djokovic.

01:01:14.400 It's absurd.

01:01:15.960 He's I guess he's technically ranked number three in the world, but he just won Wimbledon, his

01:01:20.760 seventh Wimbledon title.

01:01:21.900 It's his 21st Grand Slam.

01:01:24.300 He's won behind Nadal.

01:01:25.940 He wants to win another one, but it's not going to happen at the U.S. Open because he's

01:01:30.380 banned.

01:01:30.980 He's banned from entering the United States because he hasn't been vaccinated.

01:01:37.760 I refer you back to the CDC study that I just cited, tweeted out by Van Aden in May.

01:01:42.640 Three months after your second vaccine shot, you have zero protection against Omicron.

01:01:47.860 That's the variant we're dealing with now.

01:01:49.060 So what is the point?

01:01:51.100 Novak had covid.

01:01:53.520 He had it last year.

01:01:54.420 That's one of the things that popped up when he was in jail during the Australian Open for

01:01:58.680 whatever happened with the weirdness there.

01:02:00.760 This is even John McEnroe came out and said this is ridiculous.

01:02:03.520 He said, quote, these politicians are getting in the way too much.

01:02:06.520 They did it in Australia.

01:02:07.840 Let's let the guy come in and play in the U.S.

01:02:09.700 This is ridiculous.

01:02:11.620 So, Megan, the enemy is bureaucracy and the centralizing of authority in medical decision

01:02:18.320 making.

01:02:18.900 I've seen it.

01:02:19.680 I've just I've looked at what we went through and I thought this is the problem.

01:02:23.160 We have over centralized the decision making.

01:02:26.720 And I didn't realize how much we had done it in medicine where most physicians are employer

01:02:32.100 employed now by a system.

01:02:33.960 That system has specific guidelines that those physicians have to follow.

01:02:37.940 If they want to think for themselves, they risk losing their job.

01:02:41.040 They risk being being disciplined in some way.

01:02:43.660 This over centralization medicine is is meant to be practiced with two people, the patient

01:02:50.720 and the physician making the decisions, a well-trained, caring physician and a motivated,

01:02:56.300 informed patient.

01:02:57.060 That is your best unit.

01:02:58.920 Anything you put on top of that is inefficient and results in less good outcome.

01:03:04.020 So they put all this centralization in the name of I don't know what I don't quite.

01:03:08.960 I guess it's the cost effectiveness.

01:03:10.600 I don't know why we've gone this direction.

01:03:12.000 And now not only do we have the medical system layer of centralization, now we have the government

01:03:17.200 centralization on top of that.

01:03:18.960 And you see the insanity.

01:03:20.600 You see the incompetence.

01:03:22.040 You see the lack of risk reward analysis for a given individual.

01:03:25.940 And back to your point, I hope you interview Vinay Prasad.

01:03:28.500 He's a great interview.

01:03:29.580 But back to his point about the CDC article on Omicron, that was the early Omicron.

01:03:33.540 The BA4, BA5 really gets around immunity of all types.

01:03:37.560 We know that for sure now.

01:03:38.680 Even having had the illness, BA5's not particularly clement towards those patients.

01:03:45.220 And the vaccine seems to have almost no activity, which is why we're going to have new vaccines

01:03:49.420 in the fall.

01:03:50.940 And those have become mandatory, too.

01:03:52.680 So if it's like you already stuck your kid twice and three times and you didn't even really

01:03:56.100 want to, guess what?

01:03:57.340 It was all for naught because you're going to have to do it over and over and over.

01:03:59.740 Possibly.

01:04:00.140 Until you wind up with God knows what.

01:04:02.440 I mean, like I have real concerns when it comes to autoimmune disorders and so on and

01:04:07.820 these vaccines.

01:04:08.520 And I've spoken to a rheumatologist about this and I know that they're they're not made 0.98

01:04:12.000 up and they just don't talk about it.

01:04:14.540 You can't talk about it because fucking YouTube will take down your video.

01:04:18.300 I don't have to tell you that.

01:04:19.540 That just happened to you.

01:04:20.560 With all due respect, my friends at YouTube, that's a number of times.

01:04:24.520 I've been in UTLJ up several times just for medications coming out of my mouth that that

01:04:29.660 just using the words of medicines that I've been using for decades, for years or decades.

01:04:34.420 And now when those words are uttered, you get taken off YouTube.

01:04:37.240 It's incredible.

01:04:37.820 Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.

01:04:39.440 So now I wanted to pick up on something you said for diversity reasons or, you know, equity

01:04:43.460 reasons.

01:04:43.760 I don't know what that is.

01:04:44.640 I don't know what you weren't at the front of the line.

01:04:47.380 That's affecting so many professions, just the this overarching and absurd obsession with

01:04:53.720 equity and when it affects the medical profession, we're in trouble.

01:04:58.120 Now, this is something this is a point Victor Davis Hanson has been making for some time.

01:05:01.180 You know, like, OK, you want perfect equity in every profession, in every school.

01:05:04.500 And he always says in sports, OK, let's do it in the NBA.

01:05:07.280 How do you like that?

01:05:08.320 How's that work for you?

01:05:09.220 Right.

01:05:09.440 Oh, wait, that's not OK.

01:05:10.860 And we doesn't have to be white people.

01:05:12.160 How about Asians? 0.92

01:05:13.120 No.

01:05:13.460 Oh, you don't want it there.

01:05:14.400 Why not?

01:05:14.760 OK, but he says, do you want perfect equity when it comes to your medical doctors?

01:05:19.900 Do you want it when it comes to pilots?

01:05:21.300 Do you want it to promote people who have lower test scores just in the name of having

01:05:25.840 certain skin colors better represented?

01:05:27.860 It's absurd.

01:05:29.440 And there's a there's a an article in National Review right now talking about how woke ism

01:05:35.600 is corrupting medical education and, quote, endangering patients.

01:05:39.100 It's by Dr.

01:05:40.020 Stanley Goldfarb, who's a former associate dean of curriculum at the University of Pennsylvania.

01:05:44.660 Very well respected university, the Perelman School of Medicine there.

01:05:48.400 And now and what he's saying is the following woke ideology is undermining this essential

01:05:54.000 part of medical education in two ways.

01:05:55.940 Admissions and testing standards are being lowered in the name of diversity and equity.

01:06:00.080 And second, victimization culture is making it harder to give low performing and unqualified

01:06:04.280 residents the feedback they need to avoid endangering patients.

01:06:07.760 Let me give you a little bit more color.

01:06:09.740 At least 40 institutions and counting have given in dropping the MCAT requirements.

01:06:14.640 That's like the the the test you need to take to see if you can get into medical school

01:06:18.500 like the LSAT dropping the MCAT requirements, mainly for those who are, quote, underrepresented

01:06:23.400 in medicine.

01:06:24.960 The University of Pennsylvania waives the MCAT for certain applicants from historically

01:06:28.700 black colleges and universities and several other institutions.

01:06:32.340 Studies show, he says, that lower MCAT scores predict poor performance in medical school,

01:06:37.720 a greater likelihood of dropping out and a lesser likelihood of comprehending the course

01:06:40.800 courses that matter most to patient care.

01:06:43.660 He says this year, the U.S.

01:06:44.860 medical licensing exams first section, which residency residency programs have typically

01:06:49.560 relied on to select candidates, has replaced objective grades with a pass fail system.

01:06:54.920 The medical school deans who approved the seismic shift away from merit explicitly did

01:06:59.760 so to allow more minority students to qualify for competitive residency programs.

01:07:03.840 Quote, having retired from academic medicine in twenty nineteen, I have the freedom to speak

01:07:08.380 out yet the nonprofit I chair that opposes identity politics and health care.

01:07:12.220 Do no harm is consistently consistently hearing from medicine from physicians who are afraid

01:07:17.300 of giving feedback to low performing residents, lest they be accused of bias.

01:07:22.600 And some of the examples, Dr.

01:07:24.100 Drew, a resident who left a tourniquet on a patient for too long at a top medical school

01:07:28.520 told them that that leaving this this residence mistake caused an above the knee amputation.

01:07:35.200 He received no, he or she, no negative feedback.

01:07:39.920 An attending physician believed that a residence came to work in the emergency room while under

01:07:43.320 the influence of drugs.

01:07:44.580 Yet after raising the issue, the attending physician backed down following accusations

01:07:48.800 of racism.

01:07:50.340 Another resident who did not know how to set a broken bone responded with physical threats

01:07:55.060 to an attending physician who tried to step in and help.

01:07:57.680 And the resident received no punishment in return.

01:07:59.800 An attending physician at a prominent institution recently told my organization that residents now

01:08:03.760 have the power, they're not afraid to use it against the physicians who are supposedly

01:08:07.480 their supervisors.

01:08:09.320 The concludes as follows.

01:08:11.240 If these trends continue next July, we will see a larger crop of trainees and residents

01:08:14.540 who are less capable and more likely to harm their patients with the medical establishment

01:08:19.100 pretending nothing is wrong.

01:08:22.400 What do you make of it?

01:08:24.480 Well, I have definitely seen the consequence of the lack of ability to discipline residents.

01:08:32.700 And that has nothing to do with equity or inclusion or anything else.

01:08:36.620 I have noticed that the residents have specified hours, they can't be bothered, and you certainly

01:08:42.180 can't be, let's say, rough with them, which is sort of was the way we taught.

01:08:47.260 And if there is any decrease in the quality academically of the students, I thankfully have not seen that.

01:08:53.080 I have not seen that.

01:08:54.020 But what I have seen is a shift in the physician ability to put the patient first, the priority of what they're doing

01:09:04.900 and to care about what they're doing as a really sacred obligation to the patient.

01:09:09.860 It feels very sort of like, oh, it's just a job.

01:09:12.460 And we've done it.

01:09:13.620 We've gotten there.

01:09:14.820 That's where we are now.

01:09:15.640 And that is largely because the residents are not, they're not, it used to be a very military system.

01:09:25.180 It really was.

01:09:25.920 And maybe it was too much, but it did the job.

01:09:28.840 And if there were physicians in the program who were, say, of a lower academic standing,

01:09:34.820 you could bring them up.

01:09:35.980 You could bring their performance up through really getting on them.

01:09:39.380 But now you can't get on them.

01:09:40.980 So if there is indeed some sort of shifting in the academic standards, you will eventually see it out there in the workforce as well.

01:09:48.640 But the main thing for me, this challenge in medicine, and as Victor says, airline pilots, for another example,

01:09:56.240 really puts the whole wokeism thing to the test, like lowering standards when it comes to someone who literally has lives in his or her hands.

01:10:05.980 I mean, who I'm not in favor of who's in favor of that.

01:10:09.960 But Megan, look what we've done to medicine anyway. 0.75

01:10:12.060 So here's what these young, I have a lot of my peers that are retiring and stepping out, particularly of academic settings,

01:10:17.600 because they can't deal with the residents and the young physicians.

01:10:19.980 They just can't deal with it.

01:10:21.360 They don't respond in the same way that we did.

01:10:24.740 But think about what we're doing.

01:10:26.260 So we put them, let's just take a gastroenterologist.

01:10:30.880 And you put them out there.

01:10:32.260 First of all, they're rarely going to see patients.

01:10:35.400 The physician assistant or the nurse practitioner is going to see all the patients.

01:10:38.340 And the doctor is going to review the records and try to render judgments on the care of the physician assistant and nurse practitioner.

01:10:45.700 Then he and she will be following dictates of a bureaucratic system that gives them clinical pathways to follow that determines that will determine whether or not they did the right thing,

01:10:56.140 not their judgment for the given individual in that particular clinical setting.

01:11:00.460 So we're in, we're there now.

01:11:02.860 Then COVID was a brilliant example of the consequence of all that on a large scale.

01:11:08.120 And I think that's where we are now.

01:11:09.740 And I remember I was on Anderson Cooper's show about eight years ago.

01:11:14.620 And I said, look, you're not going to be seeing, they were complaining about the cost of healthcare and the system not being unified.

01:11:20.720 And I said, you're not going to see a doctor.

01:11:22.840 You're going to see a physician extender.

01:11:24.420 And there was Anna Navarro and Anderson Cooper.

01:11:27.060 And they all was like, physician extender?

01:11:29.000 What are you talking about?

01:11:30.580 I go, yes, that's the system you're putting in place.

01:11:33.620 You can't, you can't charge somebody a million dollars and train them for 17 years and then not pay them.

01:11:41.580 They're going to have to see so many patients that somebody is going to have to do that for them.

01:11:45.500 And that's the system we're in right now.

01:11:47.700 That's it.

01:11:48.300 That is so true.

01:11:49.420 Physician extender sounds like something you would order off of late night television commercial.

01:11:53.580 Like, oh, it sounds like a good idea, honey.

01:11:55.180 Maybe the MyPillow guy will come up with that.

01:11:57.480 He comes up with everything else.

01:11:59.900 So we've talked about wokeism, you and I, before.

01:12:03.580 And we were joined by your beautiful daughter, Paulina.

01:12:06.400 And she describes herself as woke, though she's absolutely lovely.

01:12:10.700 So, because I rip on the woke a lot, but not on her.

01:12:13.300 But it's really kind of crossed over to absurdity now in some circles, including, like, if you just watch libs of TikTok, you know what I mean.

01:12:22.820 And my team pulled this one example, Dr. Drew, of this one person that TikToker is named Friday is funky.

01:12:32.220 OK, that's the first problem.

01:12:33.420 That's the person's.

01:12:34.260 That's what they go by.

01:12:35.260 Friday is funky.

01:12:36.180 And this one little video will give you some semblance of how difficult it is in modern day America to even stay.

01:12:44.860 Hold on to your grip of what it is they're trying to get us to go along with how we're supposed to be, quote, respectful of the language.

01:12:53.900 Watch.

01:12:54.120 OK, everyone's really confused, so I'm going to explain this.

01:13:00.000 I am non-binary, and I call myself bi and gay and queer.

01:13:05.800 Those are all terms I use for myself.

01:13:08.080 I say bi to, like, help people understand that I'm interested in, like, all people.

01:13:13.660 Like, people that have the same gender as myself and people who have a different gender as myself.

01:13:18.800 Um, but no matter who I'm dating, I'm always gay because I'm not cis and I'm not a boy or a girl.

01:13:27.420 So it's gay. 0.99

01:13:30.060 Does that help?

01:13:31.700 Like, I typically almost, like, exclusively go for other trans people.

01:13:36.820 Um, so, like, the fact that my boyfriend is trans, like, we're, we call each other boyfriends.

01:13:43.080 Like, I'm his boyfriend, too.

01:13:45.760 He's my boy, we're boyfriends.

01:13:48.800 So, I'm gay and bi and queer.

01:13:52.220 It's, like, the same for me.

01:13:56.400 No one understands that.

01:13:58.400 You know, I, I did, and it did help me.

01:14:01.280 But the, but when I see young people doing that, particularly that, I think she's so lovely and bright.

01:14:08.340 What a waste of her intellectual space. 1.00

01:14:11.600 She could be doing so much with that.

01:14:14.160 So much.

01:14:14.820 Go, go do whatever.

01:14:16.140 Go do your, whatever.

01:14:17.700 Identify as whatever.

01:14:19.140 Date, whatever.

01:14:20.480 But to be constantly preoccupied and taking up cognitive space with this, must be exhausting.

01:14:27.960 It must be exhausting.

01:14:28.940 And I'm worried, too.

01:14:30.100 Where's our next Elon Musk or Steve Jobs?

01:14:32.460 You need to be thinking about bigger things.

01:14:34.980 I, I hope so.

01:14:36.400 I mean, there, there are, there are more important things in life, like having a good life, leading a good life, being a good person.

01:14:41.760 But I, I worry, here's what I worry about with all that.

01:14:43.920 I do, I mean, it's all good.

01:14:45.240 Whatever.

01:14:45.720 I love her.

01:14:46.480 Good.

01:14:46.740 She's lovely.

01:14:47.420 But I worry in my world of mental health, having a cohesive, consistent self-concept is an important part of mental health.

01:14:58.440 And when it's constantly shifting, I worry that there's something going on.

01:15:03.040 That's all.

01:15:03.380 That's all.

01:15:03.640 I worry about that.

01:15:04.880 No, you're right.

01:15:05.460 That's not all good.

01:15:06.660 That's not good.

01:15:07.360 I, there, there was an article, um, that came out just this past week that I forwarded to my team where, uh, a parent was writing in about how the, at, at their child's school, I'm trying to find it.

01:15:18.800 The person, oh, here it is.

01:15:20.660 Headline.

01:15:21.400 This is on a sub stack.

01:15:23.100 When a quarter of the class identifies as trans.

01:15:26.660 And this person writes in a quarter of the girls in my daughter's class identify as trans.

01:15:30.840 A quarter, seven out of 28.

01:15:33.640 Um, and says, like, when I said this on Twitter recently, I was around the attack for being a TERF who makes up ridiculous stories to harm trans people.

01:15:40.240 She says, well, I may be a TERF, I guess, but I didn't make this up.

01:15:42.980 A quarter of the girls.

01:15:44.140 And it goes on to say that, um, the, the, one of the girls had changed identity like four different times, had changed the name several different times.

01:15:53.560 And the school just keeps, keeps on going with it.

01:15:55.880 Okay.

01:15:56.500 Now you're this person.

01:15:57.540 Now you're that person.

01:15:58.220 And they don't involve the parents at all.

01:15:59.960 Nobody tells the parents.

01:16:00.820 In fact, there's a policy in at least the New York city privates not to tell the parents to affirmatively exclude them from all of this.

01:16:09.020 I just remember back in the day when, when a young adult or an adolescent would change their name, we would immediately in mental health, just go, Oh, something's going on.

01:16:17.280 We got, we got to help this person.

01:16:18.440 They need to get a cohesive identity.

01:16:20.100 I mean, one of the features of borderline personality disorder is unstable identity.

01:16:25.220 Uh, and that's not fun.

01:16:26.700 I mean, think about how you were when you were an adolescent trying to figure out who you are.

01:16:29.260 I don't know if you had any of that.

01:16:30.000 I had a bit of that.

01:16:30.980 It's very uncomfortable.

01:16:32.240 It's not a healthy place to be.

01:16:33.980 Now, if the cohesive identity includes, you know, all these categories and that they want to fine, fine.

01:16:38.860 But, but just let it be you and go do, go engage in the world.

01:16:43.680 Now, now we get in the world.

01:16:45.520 It's, I always think about the borderline personality disorder.

01:16:49.060 I want to ask you about that.

01:16:50.120 Cause I saw you, you suggesting something about Amber Heard on that front.

01:16:54.460 And of course that was the testimony by Johnny Depp's, uh, uh, expert that she is one.

01:17:00.800 Um, and so let me just pause it there.

01:17:02.400 I'll squeeze in a break.

01:17:03.080 And I do want to ask you whether you think she is one and what it means and follow up on

01:17:07.140 what you just said.

01:17:07.820 That's an interesting thought that all this sort of like, here's the template of all the

01:17:11.680 new things you can be, you know, just choose like a gender is no longer fixed.

01:17:15.240 Choose from 700.

01:17:17.280 Maybe that's not such a good thing.

01:17:18.880 Maybe that's causing some confusion where we don't, I mean, we know that obviously, but like

01:17:22.720 in a different way.

01:17:24.460 Let's just start with what is borderline personality disorder?

01:17:30.600 So let me just give you a little story that, that, you know, I started working in a psychiatric

01:17:35.780 hospital in 1984, 85.

01:17:38.940 And at the time there were these admission sheets and on the admission sheet, you'd put

01:17:42.920 the primary diagnosis, mood disorder, bipolar depression.

01:17:46.400 On the second line, you'd put the personality disorder.

01:17:49.080 If you could make that diagnosis.

01:17:51.000 And when I got, it's called the axis to diagnosis back in the day.

01:17:54.000 And I noticed when I got there, there were all sorts of dependent and obsessive compulsive

01:17:59.600 and paranoid and this and that all.

01:18:01.940 And then some narcissism and other things in there by about 1988, 89, I noticed it became

01:18:08.880 predominantly the cluster B personality disorders.

01:18:11.840 And cluster B are the narcissistic disorders.

01:18:14.060 Which borderline, cluster B, cluster B, cluster B, which is borderline sociopath, narcissist and

01:18:22.960 histrionic.

01:18:24.160 And then people are, we, we talked a little earlier about psychopath versus, versus sociopath.

01:18:28.260 They're very much related.

01:18:29.180 So those four make up the cluster B.

01:18:32.040 And by about 1992, I noticed it was only cluster B.

01:18:35.740 That was every patient that came in the hospital.

01:18:37.960 Now, for a while, the psychiatric literature was wondering, is this, are we over-diagnosing?

01:18:42.920 What do we do?

01:18:43.400 Why is this happening?

01:18:44.760 In my opinion, it happened because we really went through a pandemic of childhood abuse

01:18:49.400 and destroyed families and abandonment, neglect and physical abuse and sexual abuse.

01:18:53.720 All the patients I was seeing had this history in the background, and it is thought of as

01:18:58.140 a common injury that results in these personality disorders.

01:19:02.860 And with borderline, it affects predominantly women, though not exclusively.

01:19:08.300 And the hallmarks are an unstable self-concept, as I said, unregulated hostility, difficulty managing

01:19:17.040 relationships, preoccupation with abandonment to the point where they push other people away

01:19:22.160 if they try to get close, they make the abandonment happen.

01:19:25.320 And a lot of suicidality and self-destructiveness and drug use.

01:19:29.380 And one of the really key features that I think Amber Heard and Johnny Tup did us a public

01:19:36.460 service by showing publicly how messy these things are and how distorted people's perceptions

01:19:43.940 can be.

01:19:44.920 Johnny, because he was loaded and out of his mind and maybe in a blackout, but Amber, because

01:19:49.780 she has this disorder, and you asked me, let me just talk about the distortions. 0.51

01:19:54.040 I can't tell you how many times I would always go in a room with another female nurse or whatever, 0.81

01:19:58.740 because very frequently, if I went in the room with a borderline patient, we'd have a nice,

01:20:03.440 you know, nice encounter.

01:20:04.560 I'd get her from history, do an exam, and nothing seemed out of the ordinary for me.

01:20:08.080 I would leave, and the patient would report he was abusive.

01:20:12.080 He touched me inappropriately.

01:20:14.720 They're not lying.

01:20:16.300 They're not lying.

01:20:17.780 They distort because they were so, one of the theories is they're so badly victimized

01:20:22.340 at one time, that they literally distort.

01:20:24.400 And then when you have that distortion and then put memory on top of it, and memory is

01:20:29.100 a very seriously flawed instrument in our brain, you get really significant distortions of the

01:20:34.180 truth.

01:20:34.780 And I think that was on display with Amber.

01:20:36.980 It wasn't made, wasn't not a lot of made of that, but, you know, his, her perception of

01:20:41.340 what people accused her of lying.

01:20:42.780 I don't think she was lying.

01:20:43.580 I think that was her perception of what happened.

01:20:47.040 Wow.

01:20:48.140 That's an interesting legal question, I have to tell you, because if she's, if she's not

01:20:51.660 lying, if she actually believes it in her head, given the actual malice standard you have

01:20:55.920 to prove under New York Times, Mrs. Sullivan, you might not have had her on defamation if

01:21:01.040 she was truly deluded.

01:21:02.940 Well, it's not a delusion.

01:21:04.300 It's a distortion.

01:21:05.680 And, and let me just tell you that one of the things I noticed, and this is, you might be

01:21:09.480 interested in this from a legal perspective, when back in the nineties, all through the

01:21:13.860 nineties, when a borderline would come into the hospital, she would have a minimum of 20 0.85

01:21:19.440 lawsuits under her belt. 0.93

01:21:21.000 The, the legal system was used in the name of this pathology and all the slap and anti-slap

01:21:27.480 laws were really created in, in response to these, these, what we've called frivolous

01:21:32.060 lawsuits.

01:21:32.680 But to the patient, they weren't frivolous.

01:21:34.520 They actually believe these things happen.

01:21:36.080 The legal system completely fell for it.

01:21:38.620 The problem is now the legal system has adjusted a bit, but some of these same problems are

01:21:43.800 now out in the legislature.

01:21:46.240 Wait, I got confused.

01:21:47.120 I got confused.

01:21:48.020 You're saying a borderline personality will have filed 20 lawsuits or will have been this,

01:21:52.480 the subject of the dependent in file file.

01:21:55.120 Okay.

01:21:55.600 Vexatious litigant.

01:21:56.820 Yeah.

01:21:57.360 Oh, they all, they were, they, the system, the legal system was caught on to what was going

01:22:02.260 on, but they were being used as an instrument in their psychopathology.

01:22:06.500 It was really disturbing at the time because a lot of people were harmed by it.

01:22:10.040 Well, if you look at somebody like Amber Heard, I'm not asking you to diagnose her.

01:22:12.860 We already had testimony from somebody who did, you know, interview her, though she says

01:22:16.400 not for long enough and whatever it was, 12 to 18 hours, who says she is one.

01:22:20.300 Her expert said no.

01:22:23.080 When like, could you have a borderline personality with as much commercial success in their life

01:22:29.020 as she said?

01:22:30.640 There's lots of them out there.

01:22:31.700 I mean, I see them all the time.

01:22:32.640 Just like we talked about the pro-social psychopaths out there, people can adjust and their personality.

01:22:37.940 And by the way, you can have traits and not have, technically, if you have a true disorder,

01:22:43.560 it should at least affect your functioning interpersonally or professionally or physically,

01:22:49.180 like your health is suffering.

01:22:50.700 And usually all those areas are affected, but you could have traits that are really intense,

01:22:55.380 but not actually affect your functioning.

01:22:57.560 As it pertains to her diagnosis, she wasn't just interviewed, as I understand.

01:23:02.000 No, I wasn't there, and I don't know the instruments she used.

01:23:04.080 The psychiatrist that interviewed her testified on the stand that she used specific neuropsychiatric

01:23:11.420 instruments that are really just these Scantron test sheets, and they give you the diagnosis.

01:23:16.960 There really is not a lot of debate about, you know, whether those things, that is sort

01:23:21.580 of the gold standard.

01:23:23.220 And she was not just borderline, she had borderline traits and histrionic traits, both.

01:23:28.280 And that's a pretty rough combination.

01:23:30.340 That is rough.

01:23:31.120 So question both ways, because I know every woman I know who's single is worried about 0.90

01:23:35.260 hooking up with a sociopath, like somebody who has no empathy.

01:23:38.100 Forget psychopath, that's obvious.

01:23:39.580 But like a sociopath, you know, who's just like dead inside, has no empathy, and doesn't

01:23:42.940 care about feelings, but knows how to fake it.

01:23:44.500 That's one.

01:23:45.260 But on the other end, now every man I know is worried about hooking up with an Amber Heard.

01:23:49.320 But, you know, there's that meme online, like after the trial, we're like, hey, fella, she's

01:23:53.620 available.

01:23:54.400 And it's like, no, no, thank you.

01:23:56.880 And so what do you tell people on that?

01:23:59.740 There's a bunch of things I want to say about that.

01:24:01.420 One is, let's please not, let's not disparage people with borderline disorder or borderline

01:24:06.800 traits.

01:24:07.660 Nobody suffers more.

01:24:09.000 I don't want to marry one.

01:24:11.420 I get that.

01:24:12.280 But I just want to put it out there that nobody suffers more than the borderline him or herself. 0.98

01:24:16.820 They suffer a lot.

01:24:18.260 And they use something called projective identification, where they push their pain out into other people.

01:24:23.380 That's why they're so difficult to be around.

01:24:25.360 But I actually did very well with borderlines.

01:24:27.360 I do well with them when I'm out in practice with them, because I just feel deep empathy for

01:24:31.940 them.

01:24:32.080 I know they're in a lot of pain.

01:24:33.700 And you've got to contain them.

01:24:35.280 You have to know what you're dealing with.

01:24:36.680 But if you're in a romantic relationship with them, it's rough.

01:24:39.120 Here's another piece of advice.

01:24:40.780 If you have borderline personality traits, you are going to tend to attract and be attracted

01:24:46.600 to sociopaths.

01:24:49.400 And if you're a sociopath, you're going to, again, you're going to be interested in and

01:24:53.240 you're going to attract borderlines.

01:24:54.860 When we run a drug unit, those were the two personality diagnoses we had to immediately

01:24:59.460 separate because they would end up in some sort of inappropriate contact.

01:25:03.280 And it's there's there is something there are things in our personality landscape that

01:25:09.720 determine what we're attracted to.

01:25:12.160 And that's one you can pretty much take to the bank.

01:25:15.440 So the borderlines and sociopaths go together.

01:25:18.280 Now, this is why I get the big bucks, Dr.

01:25:19.960 Drew, because I can I can connect any thread.

01:25:22.380 We talked about mass shooters earlier.

01:25:24.820 Now we're talking about sociopaths and borderlines and so on.

01:25:27.580 Well, one of my friends had a great idea, I thought, and she said one of the things we

01:25:33.900 can do to to lower the chance of more mass shootings or school shootings is we can increase

01:25:39.480 the penalties for animal torture, because that's a great way of getting sociopathic people

01:25:45.740 into the criminal justice system at an earlier level to where they would be red flagged.

01:25:51.760 And I think that's exactly right.

01:25:54.220 Like a sociopath who might otherwise skirt the legal system could be a dad because, you

01:25:59.120 know, to the question I'm asking you, how would I know if I was dating a sociopath?

01:26:03.200 You hear anything about animal torture?

01:26:05.020 Get out.

01:26:05.760 Get out.

01:26:06.280 Correct.

01:26:06.680 Correct.

01:26:07.380 That is great.

01:26:07.840 I love I love the idea.

01:26:08.720 I think it's brilliant.

01:26:09.520 I think it's a good idea.

01:26:10.420 And, and sociopaths can be very engaging, very entertaining.

01:26:15.900 They, they very, if, um, I don't know if I want to say this, but it's sort of too good

01:26:21.620 to be true.

01:26:22.400 Uh, but you got to check everything, you know, trust, but verify everything that people tell

01:26:27.500 you don't, don't, don't expect anything, expect distortions, expect lying, cultivate the

01:26:33.720 word, whatever, and always check everything through.

01:26:37.340 Don't, don't assume what people say they are or say they're doing is what they are.

01:26:41.140 You have to be extremely circumspect with people.

01:26:43.540 And I think these days you're, you're at a little bit of an advantage because you have

01:26:46.840 the internet.

01:26:47.260 You can kind of check things out a bit.

01:26:49.140 Yeah.

01:26:49.540 You need references.

01:26:50.820 It's like the line from Mad Men.

01:26:52.440 He has no people.

01:26:53.760 You can't trust a man like that.

01:26:55.940 It's, they need to have some people.

01:26:57.380 There should be some people in their background who can effectively vouch for them.

01:27:02.580 Yeah.

01:27:03.060 Yeah.

01:27:03.420 I mean, that's a safer way to go.

01:27:05.100 I mean, again, that's how we used to do it back in the day.

01:27:07.940 Like, you know, big friends of friends is how people kind of hooked up proximity, that

01:27:11.820 kind of thing.

01:27:12.300 But the internet has expanded that quite a bit.

01:27:14.720 I remember when Doug and I first got together, uh, we were basically set up on a blind date.

01:27:19.300 Um, and a, when I meant, went to meet him for the blind date, I had friends stationed

01:27:24.260 in the bar, you know, who were pretending they didn't know me.

01:27:27.600 Um, just in case you never know.

01:27:29.240 He wasn't a psycho as it turned out and I was happily married and the father of my three

01:27:32.900 children.

01:27:33.400 Um, but on date number two, he does.

01:27:36.920 When I saw him without any backup there, um, a friend of his from high school came where

01:27:42.420 he was like in the bar, just happened to be in the bar in DC.

01:27:44.220 And he came over and said, Duggar, how you doing, Bubba?

01:27:46.380 And then he says to me, you know, I don't know your status or anything.

01:27:49.320 He was the nicest guy in high school.

01:27:51.320 He was like, there were lots of clicks in our high school.

01:27:53.360 He never joined one.

01:27:54.400 He was one of those guys who was just nice to everybody.

01:27:56.560 In fact, they gave him this award, like best all, all around guy, just like somebody who

01:28:00.700 everybody, I I'm like, this is a total plant.

01:28:03.340 This is so obviously fake, but it wasn't.

01:28:06.780 I was thinking he had a person.

01:28:08.400 Good job, Doug.

01:28:09.020 Well done.

01:28:09.460 Putting that guy in there.

01:28:10.800 Well, I wound up seeing that guy later.

01:28:12.560 He's actually not really a great friend of Doug's.

01:28:14.200 They just knew each other in high school.

01:28:15.360 And I saw them at their high school reunion.

01:28:16.720 He's like, everything I said is 100% true.

01:28:18.700 So I'm glad I married him.

01:28:19.780 But yeah, you got to check out their people.

01:28:21.000 They got to have people.

01:28:22.600 And ideally, they come from a relatively stable family, though every family's effed up.

01:28:26.260 So I hesitate to even say that.

01:28:27.700 Right, right.

01:28:28.220 But here's another piece.

01:28:29.360 And this is really advice, which is if you have a pattern of attracting a certain kind of

01:28:35.040 person, and if you're attracted to a certain kind of person, you are a perfect instrument.

01:28:41.320 Your body is a perfect instrument.

01:28:43.200 Even if you're sort of interested in a new person and he or she doesn't look anything like

01:28:48.920 the other ones, if you're attracted and that's your pattern, it's going to be the

01:28:53.380 same unless you get treatment.

01:28:55.660 And treatment can really adjust those things kind of quickly.

01:28:58.660 And you can sort of learn to really read those what sometimes people call love maps or attract

01:29:04.100 attachment patterns in such a way that you can form more secure attachment with healthier

01:29:08.520 people.

01:29:08.920 But if your pattern is, why do I always pick the wrong guy, you will continue to do so because

01:29:13.640 your body, your attraction system is a perfect system and it does not change unless you do

01:29:18.520 something active to change it.

01:29:20.540 And usually people end up with people that have some of the traits of those pathologies

01:29:24.860 you should be attracted to.

01:29:26.480 Some of that will be in there because that's what you're attracted to.

01:29:28.960 But on a low, you know, on a just sort of trait level, it doesn't have to disrupt

01:29:34.040 relationship or functioning.

01:29:35.240 Yeah, you can make a logical choice to go a different way and try something new and then

01:29:41.400 be accepting when when the universe delivers that something new to you.

01:29:45.400 Well, but we always tell people you got to think butterflies, not lightning bolts.

01:29:49.080 If you're somebody that has to stab lightning bolts, you have to be so attracted to that

01:29:51.840 person and the person you're attracted to always ends up being the same guy or the

01:29:55.140 same gal.

01:29:56.740 You either got to stop doing that or you got to get some treatment.

01:29:59.980 And the lighting bolt can be deadly.

01:30:01.580 So, like, it's not be all it's cracked up to be.

01:30:04.420 Yeah.

01:30:04.900 And it tends to wane anyway.

01:30:06.800 Like, I don't know why I was thinking about this, but I was just thinking about Kim Kardashian

01:30:10.440 and Kanye West.

01:30:12.780 And, you know, like when they got together, everything was so hot, hot, hot.

01:30:16.780 And he I remember she tweeted out the naked photo of herself breaking the Internet and

01:30:19.660 he tweeted out all day long or something like it was like, all right, we heard enough.

01:30:24.420 There's heat in the beginning in most relationships.

01:30:26.820 And that relationship is a good example.

01:30:28.280 If you don't have a profound intellectual, you know, mental, emotional connection that

01:30:33.360 can get past that will will still be there after the heat wanes, you don't have much.

01:30:39.080 You know, you don't have much.

01:30:39.840 The heat, the lightning bolt is not enough to hang your hat on.

01:30:42.820 You need all of it.

01:30:43.720 I mean, I'm a big fan of the heat as glue and long term marriages and things, but but

01:30:47.300 you need all.

01:30:47.920 That's exactly right.

01:30:48.560 And when it seems excessive, that's what you're describing with Kanye and Kim.

01:30:52.560 When it's when you the average person looks at it and goes, what is that all about?

01:30:55.800 But there's something there.

01:30:57.520 I don't need to know what you're doing all night long.

01:30:59.340 That's that's your business.

01:31:00.520 Right.

01:31:00.860 Right.

01:31:01.340 I've got to ask you about Paulina before we go, because I know you have an update on

01:31:05.340 her and she was such a doll.

01:31:06.900 I honestly think she might be the only woke person I've ever had on the show.

01:31:09.820 And I would have her back anytime she wanted to come.

01:31:11.500 You were promoting your joint book.

01:31:12.820 She was she was kind.

01:31:13.860 She wasn't like one of the wokesters who's mean and wants to cancel everybody. 1.00

01:31:16.880 And it's just no, no, it's a worldview that she came by, honestly.

01:31:20.200 But so what's going on with her?

01:31:21.240 And so so we wrote this book called It Doesn't Have to Be Awkward, and it did very well.

01:31:25.660 And I in the process of writing the book, I got to see her point of view is really interesting

01:31:29.400 process of contact, which we all need to be practicing, which was, you know, I don't

01:31:33.520 agree with a lot of her stuff, but I understood it and I respected it.

01:31:37.080 I thought, oh, this is I see what she's doing.

01:31:39.400 I get it.

01:31:40.060 I know what I see her thinking.

01:31:41.760 So in the meantime, she went through a major life changing event and is now seven or eight

01:31:46.860 months sober deep in the program and it's kind of a new person.

01:31:50.240 It was really quite exciting to, you know, I've worked around recovery all the time and

01:31:53.460 she and I kind of joke about now how that was something she would never consider because

01:31:56.760 dad was always talking about it.

01:31:58.820 Right.

01:31:59.180 And she jumped in with both feet and boy, I started going to multiple meetings a day and

01:32:04.000 she felt she really hit a bottom.

01:32:06.420 Her drug was a cannabis.

01:32:07.880 And I know people don't believe that cannabis can cause addiction, but let me tell you something

01:32:12.440 when you're dabbing and doing wax, and these are such powerful chemicals now that trust

01:32:18.660 me, it can not only cause addiction, it can cause mental health problems as well.

01:32:22.880 Mood disturbances, anxiety attacks, psychotic episodes, people deny it.

01:32:27.220 It is just so.

01:32:28.380 And you could say, well, if you're not using so much, okay, maybe, but at the rate people

01:32:32.460 are using, if you're dabbing, really think about you may have a problem.

01:32:36.000 And she's become a new person.

01:32:36.960 I'm so dumb in this area.

01:32:38.100 What is dabbing?

01:32:39.640 It's sort of, think of it as crack for cannabis.

01:32:43.680 It's like you have to specially prepare and light it and cook it and it's a whole thing.

01:32:48.660 And it's very, very, very potent, highly opioid type effect, but many other influences on the

01:32:53.680 brain as well.

01:32:54.840 And you got to look at yourself.

01:32:57.180 The all, look, I don't believe in good drugs and bad drugs.

01:32:59.940 There's no such thing as a good drug and a bad drug.

01:33:01.700 There's just these chemicals and how they affect the human being and our relationship with

01:33:05.080 those chemicals.

01:33:06.200 Be realistic about all of it.

01:33:08.200 Look, alcohol, yes, causes more.

01:33:10.380 Back when we were talking about head and neck cancers, alcohol versus HPV pretty much guarantees

01:33:14.280 you head and neck cancer.

01:33:15.840 Alcohol is a carcinogen.

01:33:17.400 Alcohol has more public health consequences than any other drug, for sure.

01:33:21.420 Drug, all unwanted contacts, accidents, you name it, alcohol is there.

01:33:26.800 It's not worse than anything else.

01:33:28.560 It's just another drug that humans use.

01:33:30.740 And let's understand it fully.

01:33:31.840 And there are plenty of other drugs we use.

01:33:34.040 Some are not as bad.

01:33:34.740 Some are worse.

01:33:35.340 It's whatever.

01:33:36.140 It depends who you are, too.

01:33:37.560 But she has changed herself completely.

01:33:39.060 And it's just been a joy to be close to somebody who's going through this process of transformation

01:33:43.520 that we call recovery.

01:33:45.160 And she has embraced it.

01:33:46.460 And my goodness, it's just been extraordinary.

01:33:48.980 She's somebody who's had a lot of therapy under her belt, too.

01:33:52.240 And this process of sobriety and recovery has been, I mean, life changing for her.

01:33:58.000 It's been extraordinary, and it's been great to watch.

01:34:00.440 She was super open when she came on the show and absolutely delightful to talk to.

01:34:04.060 I'm very glad to hear she's doing well and better than she felt she was.

01:34:08.680 And thank you for being so open and honest about it.

01:34:10.700 I'll end on the one happy note.

01:34:11.920 I met in Italy a guy who got his Ph.D. in environmental architecture, and one of the things he learned

01:34:20.420 was how important open spaces and nature can be to any architectural space and to somebody's

01:34:27.860 well-being.

01:34:28.380 So we talked about drugs being so bad for you.

01:34:30.580 Here's one thought to think about today on something that's good for you outdoors, seeing

01:34:35.060 the sunrise, seeing the sunset, seeing the mountains, seeing open vistas, seeing the ocean like

01:34:40.460 I do here.

01:34:41.100 And it does make me happier, even though I'm not an ocean person because I don't like sharks

01:34:44.520 and I don't like salt and I'm worried about the waves.

01:34:46.960 But I like to look at it.

01:34:48.500 So it's something you could do today.

01:34:49.820 Something small could just be a walk in the park, maybe rather than toke up or take the

01:34:54.640 drink or take the whatever pill.

01:34:57.600 Anyway, that's I still the last word on that, Dr. Drew.

01:35:00.160 Great, as always, such a pleasure to see you and send my best to Paulina, too, please.

01:35:04.000 Absolutely.

01:35:04.500 Thank you so much, Megan.

01:35:05.840 All right, guys, and check out drdrew.com for more and where you can find all of Dr.

01:35:09.600 Drew's shows.

01:35:10.560 Tomorrow, our friends from the fifth column are back with us.

01:35:13.580 Everybody loves when the guys from the fifth column come on, including yours truly.

01:35:17.220 And it sounds like Matt Welsh and I have a lot to talk about with respect to our terrible,

01:35:23.200 terrible airline experiences lately.

01:35:26.420 Have you had one of your own?

01:35:27.880 You can go post about it right now on Apple at our show comment experience.

01:35:32.800 And maybe I'll read one on the air.

01:35:35.260 I'm still so ticked off about what happened between yours truly and Air France.

01:35:41.120 One of the many things we'll get to for the guys from the fifth column.

01:35:44.720 Don't forget to listen and watch.

01:35:46.760 And you can watch, by the way, at youtube.com slash Megan Kelly.

01:35:49.660 We'll see you tomorrow.

01:35:52.440 Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.

01:35:54.580 No BS, no agenda and no fear.

01:35:57.160 Thank you much for listening.

01:36:14.480 Thanks for listening.

01:36:14.820 Thanks for listening.

01:36:14.920 Bye.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - July 11, 2022

New Questions About Biden's Cognitive Decline, and COVID Panic is Back, with Dr. Drew ｜ Ep. 354

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