The Megyn Kelly Show - New Video Shows Bowman Lied About Fire Alarm, and Rational Gender Care, with Jesse Kelly, Joe Burgo, and Stella O'Malley

00:00:00.600 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111, every weekday at New East.

00:00:11.920 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.420 Happy Friday. We made it.

00:00:17.780 My gosh, it's been a long week. It's been a long three weeks, has it not?

00:00:22.280 Big trouble for President Biden we're seeing today as he loses support among Americans in the latest poll.

00:00:27.900 A new Gallup poll shows his approval numbers cratering in the wake of Hamas' attack on Israel.

00:00:35.040 His overall approval is at just 37 percent, down four points just since September.

00:00:41.300 His ratings among Democrats down 11 points since last month.

00:00:48.320 And that's not all. A look at his overall Real Clear Politics average shows his approval numbers are worse

00:00:53.540 than former President Trump's, than former President Obama's, and George W. Bush's, at this time in their presidencies.

00:01:03.020 Amid this bleak news for the White House comes word that the president has a new challenger in the Democratic primary.

00:01:09.780 A little-known Democrat out of Minnesota named Dean Phillips,

00:01:14.040 who is actually encouraging others to get in the race, saying Biden can't win, saying the time has come to pass the torch.

00:01:23.840 Meantime, we're seeing fresh examples of far-left ideology taking hold of our country.

00:01:27.920 An alarming video out of New Orleans, where an off-campus rally near Tulane University gets out of hand

00:01:34.780 as a man attempts to set an Israeli flag on fire, and a pro-Israel student tries to stop him,

00:01:41.580 whereupon he gets beaten with a flagpole, and chaos ensues.

00:01:46.300 Fuck you!

00:01:53.120 gonna do with it!

00:02:07.100 Huh, huh, huh, huh!

00:02:08.600 We're out!

00:02:12.960 Who, who, who, who?

00:02:15.000 It's amazing. So these pro-Palestinian, pro-Hamas guys in the truck wanted to burn

00:02:25.680 the Israeli flag. Somebody who's pro-Israel tried to grab the flag to prevent the disrespect,

00:02:30.620 and he got beaten with the flagpole. Nice. Nice. Way to escalate.

00:02:36.500 According to local reports, two people were arrested. They're not Tulane students,

00:02:40.000 though it happened nearby. Tulane's undergraduate population is more than 40 percent Jewish.

00:02:45.000 And many students have family and friends directly affected by the tragic events in Israel.

00:02:49.500 Over on the West Coast at Stanford University, my God, certain names are just becoming synonymous

00:02:55.000 with lunacy. Brown, yes, for a long, long time. Stanford, UPenn, NYU, Harvard. I mean,

00:03:04.160 just synonymous with lunacy. Don't send your kids there. Don't donate there. And don't hire people

00:03:09.200 from there. Palestinian activists at Stanford issuing a set of demands now. They're very

00:03:15.340 angry with their university. Among their demands, they want the university to immediately condemn

00:03:21.760 Israel, to boycott all Israeli products, to call for an immediate ceasefire. And once that ceasefire

00:03:28.620 happens, they want the school to pay for round trip tickets so students can visit their family and

00:03:34.480 friends and, quote, grieve properly. Oh, they also want the school to hire them lawyers and they want

00:03:40.680 24-7 grief counselors paid for by the university. Oh, my God. Why can't I be the dean of Stanford?

00:03:51.060 I would love to handle these students. I know just how to do it. It involves a certain Italian gesture

00:03:56.260 right underneath your chin. Then there's NYU, a constant in the anti-Israel protests. Of course,

00:04:03.380 NYU is situated in a city in which I think New York City's only got, it's got the greatest Jewish

00:04:09.480 population outside of Israel. But don't let that stop you, pro-Hamas students. An update to the video

00:04:16.420 that we brought to you yesterday. Remember that lovely NYU law student who blamed Israel for the

00:04:20.460 attack immediately? She said Israel is entirely to blame for its dead babies. I mean, within 24 hours.

00:04:25.900 Of the massacre three weeks ago. And then Winston and Strawn, the Chicago law firm, pulled her job

00:04:31.420 offer. Well, yesterday we showed you video of this woman, Rhino Workman. You should know her name,

00:04:36.820 right? Remember, say her name. I'm going to say your name. Rhino Workman. Don't hire her.

00:04:41.640 And she was with another woman and they were covering up images of missing Israelis because

00:04:46.660 they don't really give a damn about the children or the innocents who have been stolen and are being

00:04:51.560 kept hostage in tunnels or worse. Well, that friend who she was with, her pal, her terrorist

00:04:57.520 sympathizer pal, has now been identified as Hala al-Shami. In addition to defacing posters of the

00:05:04.020 missing, it seems Hala is a New York University employee. Of course she is. She's a, quote,

00:05:11.560 course assistant in the Department of Media, Culture, and Communications. Oh, she wants my job.

00:05:17.680 Oh, good luck. Look forward to what network's going to hire you. Oh, wait, I know you're going

00:05:23.380 to have to boot Mehdi Hassan out of his position. Good luck with it. According to her now deleted

00:05:28.760 LinkedIn account, because these people are cowards and they can't take negative feedback to their bad

00:05:33.400 behavior. So they have to delete their social media because the bullies are so mean. She's probably

00:05:38.620 asking NYU to hire her 24 seven counseling assistance right now. This woman was educated at NYU,

00:05:46.600 just like Rhino Workman and the American University of Beirut, and appears to have worked in some sort

00:05:53.320 of journalism job in Beirut, Lebanon as a writer and an editor. Nice. Joining me now to discuss it all,

00:06:02.400 Jesse Kelly, host of the Jesse Kelly show. And I'm right. Jesse, welcome back to the program. So

00:06:08.920 boo-hoo, the Stanford University students want 24 seven counselors to help them deal with the grief

00:06:17.620 and all the people who are pro-Israel on the campus. Megan, this is the problem in our country.

00:06:24.680 And it is a huge, like, it's a national problem that we mock these people for. And we should mock

00:06:30.940 these little losers for being little losers. But it is a problem because these universities,

00:06:36.920 I could never get into one, of course, but these universities, they do produce people who lead our

00:06:42.220 society, right? You know, senators, they went to Harvard, they went to Stanford, a fortune 500 CEO,

00:06:48.260 the leaders of a society come from these elite institutions. So if your elite institutions

00:06:53.840 are producing weapons grade turds who feel like they need grief counselors 24 seven and all this other

00:07:00.820 stuff, well, you're going to find your nation in quite a pickle if all the institutions eventually get

00:07:06.060 taken over by these vicious little monsters. Because the right lie to themselves for years and years and

00:07:11.440 years. I heard this a million times, Megan. I probably said this myself. Well, once they get older and earn a

00:07:16.960 paycheck, they'll wake up. That has not happened. That did not happen at all. They took their radical

00:07:22.640 activism right from college, right into the corporate boardroom, right into the U.S. House, all throughout our

00:07:28.800 government bureaucracy. What we're seeing on campus now, the same mentality governs the country.

00:07:33.980 Mm hmm. I like you got to give it to them on on chutzpah, you know, like the nerve to actually

00:07:41.460 come out and ask for 24 seven trauma counselors to say there will be to look at the Stanford

00:07:46.320 University professors and administrators who let you into this institution and say there will be no

00:07:51.800 neutrality, no neutrality. They say on genocide. Neutrality is complicity. Now, get me my damn lawyer

00:07:58.480 and my trauma counselor and you get out there and you boycott all Israeli goods. You got it. And you

00:08:04.140 know what? They're probably going to get some of this. They're probably going to get it.

00:08:07.220 Well, this is the difference in mentality, Megan. And this is this is why it's been so hard for so

00:08:13.060 many people on the right to overcome. This is why we've lost the culture, because we believe in

00:08:18.160 neutrality. If you talk to the normal person on the right and not a bad person either, just the normal

00:08:23.040 person on the right. They would honestly they would probably genuinely tell you, hey, I just want to

00:08:27.500 heal divisions. I want to get along. I'm going to live and let live. Hey, you do you all do me like

00:08:33.100 that. That's obviously not universal. That's probably the predominant thinking on the right.

00:08:37.160 Probably most of the people who even listen, watch your show. That's a normal person's way of thinking.

00:08:41.740 But when you're dealing with conquerors who don't acknowledge neutrality, they won't accept

00:08:46.960 neutrality. Well, you have to change your mentality because they're not going to change.

00:08:52.320 These people mean what they say. No, there's no neutrality. You will you will voice support for

00:08:58.840 me or you're my enemy. They're dead serious. And those two mentalities, the living that live and

00:09:04.520 there's no neutrality. They don't work together. One is going to dominate the other if the other

00:09:09.360 doesn't change how it thinks. It's true. It's like that, you know, the BLM videos where they stopped

00:09:14.780 the cars and they went up to people at restaurants and they were like, say it, say it. Supposed to raise

00:09:19.280 your fist and say BLM. It's not enough to be neutral for them. It is. You will adopt the way

00:09:24.700 I view or else the way I view life or else. And it's like that kid in Tulane who was running after

00:09:31.900 the truck as they were trying to burn the Israeli flag saying, give me that flag. Don't disrespect

00:09:36.720 that flag. And he got beaten with a flagpole. No, you will burn it. You'll watch it. You'll love it.

00:09:43.420 F off. Right. It's like you. The backlash against the people who are standing up for hostages,

00:09:51.360 standing up for terror victims is absolute madness.

00:09:56.480 Well, it is madness. And I think we should probably leave some room just in my opinion. I think we

00:10:01.220 should leave some room for madness. And this is what I mean by this. Look, the wisdom of crowds,

00:10:08.280 I believe Malcolm Gladwell actually wrote a book on that. But there's there's the wisdom of crowds,

00:10:12.520 the madness of crowds. People do things when there's a big mob doing things that they would

00:10:17.680 never otherwise do if they weren't in a big mob. You know, you get your blood up and you do these

00:10:21.940 things. I think people should realize as we see all these nutball demonstrations, just like we did

00:10:28.100 after the St. George Floyd protests and all these other things. People have to understand a lot of the

00:10:33.160 people, especially young people caught up in these things. They're just doing things because everyone

00:10:37.560 else is doing them. And I bet you I bet you money, Megan, if you went and pulled 10 people out of every

00:10:42.720 single one of these protests, that nine of them actually couldn't lay out any of the history of, you

00:10:48.740 know, Israel, Hamas or the region. I bet you they couldn't give you specifics about. Oh, yeah, of course.

00:10:53.160 I don't know when you do it. Jesse Kelly needs to get in the midst of these reporters or these these college

00:10:57.880 protesters and say, when you say from the river to the sea, what do you mean? What specifically when

00:11:04.440 you say and and the occupation, what's what define the occupation? What exactly are they doing when you

00:11:12.240 say, you know, intifada? What is an intifada? What does it mean? How has it been? How has it happened

00:11:18.380 historically? Please do this, please. You'll be my lead. I need to see this done. You know what? You know,

00:11:26.180 what's funny, Megan, is I actually might do that, but I don't need to because you already know and I

00:11:31.100 already know everyone listening right now already knows how that would turn out. And I heard a

00:11:35.320 fascinating it was fascinating documentary I watched one time and I'm sorry, I can't plug them. It was

00:11:39.800 years ago, but they were interviewing people from Mao's cultural revolution. Everyone who listens to

00:11:46.080 your show knows what that is. Mao weaponizes all the young people of China, high school, college kids,

00:11:51.160 and they go around and beat a bunch of people to death. It was horrible. Tore up grades toward graves,

00:11:55.840 tore down statues. It was awful. They killed like 2 million people, beating teachers to death with

00:11:59.660 ball bats. It was the worst thing ever. And they interviewed during this documentary, not victims.

00:12:05.220 You always see those documentaries. They found and interviewed people who had taken part in all this

00:12:10.580 stuff. They're in the crowds yelling at the struggle sessions. They're throwing stuff. They're

00:12:14.280 hitting people. They're doing these horrible things. And to a man, to a woman, it was men and women that

00:12:19.140 took place. Not one of them, and they were remorseful, but not one of them could explain. And they were

00:12:25.240 asked several times, why did you do this? Okay. And it was always a specific case. Okay. You,

00:12:31.600 you went to Barbara's house and you beat her to death. You did that. Why did you do that? And none of

00:12:39.420 them could really explain why. The best you could get was some vague reference. Well, I mean, we thought

00:12:45.520 she was maybe a landlord who could maybe have kicked people. They never knew, Megan. These people don't

00:12:52.440 know the crowd's doing it. So they do it. I think it's, it's more complicated than that because it's

00:12:59.100 the BLM crowd. It's the LGBTQ plus crowd, right? It's like, it's crazy. Cause like their, their

00:13:05.200 perception, their self-perception of, I stand up for the oppressed. That's what you're seeing

00:13:11.020 underlying a lot of these things. And they view the Palestinians as oppressed. They have no fucking

00:13:15.840 knowledge of anything, right? They haven't got, they see skin color. They're like, yeah, they're the

00:13:19.020 victims. And you look back at like the individual profiles of some of the people yesterday. We

00:13:23.660 hired, uh, we, we highlighted what happened at Cooper union in New York city, where these Jewish

00:13:27.780 students were barricaded in a library. They were locked in a library because the students,

00:13:32.260 the pro Palestinians were banging on the door outside. So the librarians had to protect these

00:13:36.460 kids. I mean, you know, you're in trouble when the librarians are your chief security, locking them

00:13:41.180 in go librarians. Um, and the, here's the student who, who, according to anti stop anti-Semitism

00:13:49.380 orchestrated the mob against the Jews at Cooper union. His name is Matthew Maglory. And this is a guy

00:13:59.100 hit the same guy with the same name at Cooper union goes by ready, Jesse. They, him,

00:14:06.580 M M E M. I didn't even know that was a thing. M he, he wants you to call him M. Well, M orchestrated

00:14:14.800 an intimidation campaign against the Israelis. And they're very mad at M now because he seems like

00:14:22.360 a total douche bag, but this is another. So he's an artist and a person with the same exact name as

00:14:28.420 this guy. I can't confirm 100%. It's the same person, but who else is named Matthew spelled T H I E U

00:14:34.780 Maglory M A G L O I R E at Cooper union, which is not a big school. Uh, there's a website that

00:14:42.060 features his art sculptures and animations. And I thought you'd really appreciate these Jesse as a

00:14:46.660 connoisseur. Oh, I don't know what it, I don't, I'm not sure what we're looking at here. Is it, is it,

00:14:53.860 is it penile? Is it like potatoes? I don't, there's, I don't know what it is, but this is,

00:15:03.960 this is how he describes his art. His work explores the black identity and the most sublime

00:15:11.840 qualities of the expected in the most unexpected ways. I think Kamala Harris wrote this. His work

00:15:17.440 deals with the crossroads of intersectionality through establishing blurred lines in his choice

00:15:23.400 of media, allowing his artistic practices to leech off one another in an accompanying effort to

00:15:28.460 intensify the overall experience. So this is a BLM or who's looking for his next latest greatest cause.

00:15:35.380 And it happens unfortunately to be Jewish people who he wants to torment. Yeah. He's a street

00:15:41.160 communist. You know, we've talked, we've had these conversations before Megan, but this actually goes

00:15:45.880 kind of back to what I was saying. Yes. Most of the people in the crowd, they're nutball just,

00:15:49.860 they don't even know why they're there, but there is an organized anti-West, anti-civilization,

00:15:57.020 a very large organized group of street communists in this country. And there's a reason the old,

00:16:02.580 the Venn diagram of the black lives matter, Antifa protests, and now the pro Hamas protests,

00:16:07.460 that Venn diagram is just one single circle. There's a reason it's all the same people we have

00:16:12.580 nurtured for years. Now we've educated them in our schools. We've taught them culturally with our

00:16:18.600 entertainment, the generations of people in this country to believe that America and really the

00:16:24.240 West itself is the source of all evil. That's how they operate. It's how, it's how they view

00:16:29.520 everything in life. I was actually just in New York city. Sorry, Megan, I'm going to filibuster for a

00:16:33.120 second. I was actually just in New York city, which I love. And it's Aubrey up there. I was out there

00:16:36.840 with my wife and we did the touristy thing, which we'd never done. We did a Statue of Liberty tour.

00:16:40.800 And of course our tour guide, you know, it's a big tour. Of course our tour guide is a complete

00:16:46.880 piece of commie trash. And he, it's a Statue of Liberty tour, right? Just tell me the history,

00:16:52.880 the French and the artists and who did this and who did that. But everything in the tour,

00:16:58.460 everything in his life was all about how much America sucked and how horrible this society was.

00:17:06.800 He could give you an accurate piece of history from the Statue of Liberty and tell you, you know,

00:17:11.600 Bob Jones designed this in a 1650 and without missing a breath, he would transition right into

00:17:18.600 how that made America an evil, horrible, racist place. And of course he would do the quote,

00:17:24.620 hypocritical things that are equally ridiculous. He was an actor because of course he was an actor,

00:17:29.120 Megan, and he'd flown all over the world. And he just explained to us how he'd flown all over the

00:17:33.400 world. And he said, flown all over the world. And the next breath, he looked up at a

00:17:36.760 helicopter because New York City has helos going all over the place. He looked up and said,

00:17:40.600 look at that helicopter destroying our planet, just shaking his head, just described all the

00:17:45.600 flights he'd taken. He saw a helo. But in his mind, you know, we can mock him and roll our eyes.

00:17:51.100 That's how he frames everything. Everything in his life is viewed through that lens. America sucks.

00:17:56.540 America's bad. America has to burn for America's sins. And we, we don't want to acknowledge

00:18:02.700 what percentage of this country thinks that way. And it's not just young people either.

00:18:07.100 We have a bunch of vile communist scum at the top and bottom of this country. And they just view this

00:18:12.400 country as the height of all evil. And that's why they move right from a St. George Floyd protest

00:18:16.800 to a kill all the Jews protest without a second thought.

00:18:19.760 So true, because you look at people like Rashida Tlaib, Cori Bush, AOC, and you ask yourself,

00:18:25.700 how on earth did their constituents elect them? My God, how did these people become

00:18:29.900 U.S. Congress people? And just look at the colleges. Look what we're seeing out there.

00:18:35.020 Look at the pipeline that we create of this sort of these radicalized young people who are stupid

00:18:40.380 and listless, who then get exploited by professors who have an entirely radical agenda,

00:18:46.380 then popped out there. And all of these things on their resume are pluses, not minuses. Students

00:18:51.800 for Justice in Palestine, they'll get you hired in most places, as opposed to an eyebrow going up,

00:18:56.520 going, wasn't that the group that hated all the Jews and celebrated the dead babies, right?

00:19:02.160 And before you know it, they're the professors at the universities. They're the Bernadine

00:19:05.500 Dorans at Northwestern Law School or Bill Ayers at University of Chicago, or, you know, you could go

00:19:10.240 down the list, New York City, NYU took a bunch of these weather underground people. Anyway,

00:19:14.160 it's a pipeline. I, I'm going to do something terrible, Megan, but you let me do this once

00:19:21.700 on your show. So I'm going to do it again. I'm actually going to plug the book I wrote and I

00:19:25.600 really don't need people to buy it. I'm not trying to get people to buy the book, borrow it from a

00:19:28.760 friend, right? If you want to buy it, buy it. I wrote a whole chapter in the anti-communist

00:19:32.480 manifesto about what you just described. We had documented terrorists who tried to blow people up

00:19:38.720 and oftentimes did. And half the time they blew themselves up in this country in the sixties and

00:19:44.040 seventies called the weather underground. And they were all committed communists. And in fact,

00:19:48.020 they wrote down, I write down, I'll tell you the story of it in this, how 25 million Americans,

00:19:52.940 by their estimation, were going to have to be removed from society and reeducated. And if they

00:20:00.220 proved themselves unable to be reeducated, they would have to be eliminated. Okay. So this is a group

00:20:06.020 talking about genociding 25 million Americans back in the sixties and seventies. So everybody

00:20:10.940 listen right now. Oh my gosh, that's crazy. Those people must all be in Fort Leavenworth right now.

00:20:15.720 Nope. Virtually every one of them got off scot-free. And to this day, they are prestigious,

00:20:21.780 prestigious people in high society. They teach your little Aiden, Jaden and Brayden when you send

00:20:27.460 them off to Stanford, because you think he's going to get a good education. That communist terrorist

00:20:32.460 teaches your child the same thing they always thought. And they haven't apologized. They haven't

00:20:37.760 retracted. They preach and think the same things. Then this country has facilitated and nurtured these

00:20:44.220 people. And now we wake up and we wonder why one day I saw a poll the other day, Megan, that said

00:20:49.200 half of Joe Biden's voters, half believe speech should be regulated by the government in the United

00:20:57.280 States of America. Half the Democrats in this country believe this way. I'm not even kidding

00:21:01.640 you. That is people who believe you, Megan Kelly, should be thrown in prison for the things you say.

00:21:06.840 Half of the Joe Biden voters in this country. How does that happen? You educate a people that way.

00:21:11.580 They have been nurtured that way for decades. And now we got ourselves in quite a pickle.

00:21:16.020 You know what? It's like, great. Get out. Virtually every other country in the world,

00:21:20.320 including in the free West world, will regulate your speech. The governments will do that.

00:21:24.540 Get out. It's one of the things that makes America so unique. Get the F out. We don't want,

00:21:29.560 you don't want to be, you don't want to be here and listen to us. We don't want you either. Move

00:21:32.520 along yet. Just yesterday. And listen, a great Britain is beautiful. I love it. Got a lot of

00:21:36.940 friends over there. However, just yesterday, um, our pal Lawrence Fox, who's been on the program

00:21:41.640 recently posted a video of a woman who decided to stand outside of an abortion clinic over in the UK,

00:21:47.020 Jesse. She was standing. She did not have a placard, a poster, a flyer. She did not

00:21:54.420 have a group around her protesting. She literally was just standing there praying in her head,

00:22:02.580 praying silently, not like yelling it out. You know, like God doesn't want you to have abortions,

00:22:08.800 nothing in her head. And there's video taken of a police officer coming over to her saying,

00:22:14.400 you've got to, you've got to get out. You're not allowed to be here. The woman says, I'm standing

00:22:18.160 here. The woman, the cop says, you're in a no protest zone. The woman says, I'm not protesting.

00:22:22.280 I'm literally standing here praying in my head. Get out. You're getting a citation. It's not allowed.

00:22:29.500 You want to live like that. Get on a flight. British airways will take you six hours from New

00:22:34.940 York. You're good. You want to be here. We have different principles. Well, we don't though,

00:22:41.560 because our FBI did the same thing to Mark Howell. I look our FBI. We sent a SWAT team to the guy's

00:22:46.440 house. We had a pro-life pastor and he volunteered to turn himself in. Megan, you're well acquainted

00:22:51.580 with the law. His lawyer got ahold of the FBI and said, hey, if there's going to be a problem,

00:22:54.980 I'll come turn myself in. That's music to everyone's ears. Then you don't have to risk

00:22:58.720 anybody getting hurt. Law enforcement doesn't get hurt. That's wonderful. It's the preferred outcome.

00:23:03.020 They said, no, don't bother and showed up at his house with 30 armed officers pointing long guns at

00:23:07.920 his wife himself and his children. Same thing happens here in the country. And the problem is,

00:23:12.320 Megan, is we want them to get out. But the only way to get these people out is to make this place

00:23:18.540 inhospitable to them. And I know that sounds harsh to a lot of people, but we're dealing with people

00:23:23.980 who think differently than we do. We're dealing with conquerors. And this is the best way I can

00:23:27.860 describe it. When it comes to kids like Megan, I know you're a parent. I'm a parent. I love my kids

00:23:33.020 and I have opinions on how people should raise their kids. However, when I see a parent and parents in

00:23:38.880 public, maybe not raising their kid the way I would, it would never enter my mind to go correct

00:23:45.180 them or get involved or anything like that. I may roll my eyes. I may say something to Abba under my

00:23:50.160 breath, but it's not my business, right? But we have to understand we're dealing with people. It would

00:23:56.460 never occur to them not to do that. They see other things. They hate it. They dislike it. And they intend

00:24:04.640 to conquer it. They don't want to leave here. They want to conquer here. That's why they're here.

00:24:10.240 That's why they do the things they do. The, um, the woman we mentioned at the top who works with

00:24:15.760 Rhino Workman, Rhino Workman, the NYU law student who got her job offer withdrawn. She, uh, so she goes

00:24:22.440 to NYU. She becomes the president of the student bar association and she promptly booted from that role.

00:24:26.340 Thank God. And her job offer revoked, but maybe we're being too tough on Rhino Workman because look at

00:24:32.360 the professor. I mentioned it. Her name is Allah Allah Sami something. And, um, so this Allah Sami

00:24:39.960 is an instructor at NYU. Maybe she feels differently. Maybe she's setting a better role

00:24:45.480 model acting as one for Rhino Workman. No, we see her pulling down the posters right next to her

00:24:50.960 and listen to when she gets confronted. You got to watch the tape to when the teacher Allah Sami gets

00:24:56.540 confronted with pulling down the hostage pictures. Hey guys, look what they're doing.

00:25:03.100 You guys want to say your name or no? I don't want to tell you my name.

00:25:06.140 You guys want to put your name? Really? You guys scared? At least say your name.

00:25:11.260 If you're going to do it with pride. If you're going to do it with pride.

00:25:14.540 I'm very proud. I just don't want to talk to you.

00:25:16.140 I love this guy, by the way, doing the video. Say your name. Do it right. Oh, you're so proud.

00:25:33.580 She wouldn't say her name. She's one of those people had to be tracked down by stop anti-Semitism

00:25:37.740 X account. And now we know her name and I hope she doesn't get hired. I hope she gets the boot

00:25:41.900 from NYU. I hope my student or my friend's students is at NYU right now. I hope he never

00:25:46.060 has to sit in this ridiculous person's class. Can't imagine. She's actually what? Instructing

00:25:50.380 in media? Great. Perfect. Yeah. Look, Megan, I've got to say something and it may be hard for some

00:25:58.620 people to hear, but I really do mean it. I'm thrilled that we're finally seeing some cultural

00:26:02.540 pushback against the little monsters we've raised in this country. You won't be hired. You won't do that.

00:26:08.300 I really am glad. I really, it is a good thing. Where was that energy when the Black Lives Matter

00:26:13.820 Antifa street animals were burning this country down? These are all the same people. Where was

00:26:19.260 that energy for our country here? And look, it's not that I don't want people to be emotional and

00:26:24.620 be upset about what took place in Israel. These people are here. They occupy our society and they've

00:26:31.480 told us they've come forward several times. This is just the latest. They've come forward several times

00:26:36.240 and told us exactly who they are, exactly what they think, exactly what they believe.

00:26:41.280 And there was zero outcry from the top tier of this country, from these law firms,

00:26:46.800 from media people. There was zero outcry to deny any Black Lives Matter protest or any Antifa

00:26:53.040 protester employment for the rest of their lives when they were all mobbing up on college campuses.

00:26:58.080 But something terrible happens in Israel. And now all of a sudden, a bunch of Americans have

00:27:02.080 some principles. Where were those principles beforehand? Normal people like you have been

00:27:07.200 warning about these people for years. And it took a spark thousands of miles away to finally wake up

00:27:13.280 people in this country. I'm glad they're finally waking up. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad people are

00:27:17.200 waking up. But man alive, have some appreciation for your own country and realize what you've dealt with

00:27:22.560 here. Yeah, no, you're right. They're awfully late to the party. Some of us have been at the party

00:27:26.640 for a long time trying to stop this freight train, which has been just out of control,

00:27:31.600 rolling through our civil rights and our foundational principles like free speech.

00:27:35.520 And these people were silent and they said absolutely nothing. So I feel like we've been

00:27:40.000 consistent all along, which is it's a hard no. I'm not hiring the people who are on the street in

00:27:44.560 Kenosha setting fires. And I'm not hiring these lunatics who are backing terrorists in Israel.

00:27:50.800 No, thank you for outing yourself. Get out. But I don't see it the same as somebody who was

00:27:57.680 more left wing in college and now is more right. But like there's a natural evolution that happens

00:28:02.080 with young people in our society. And I get that, you know, like you march for Greenpeace when you're

00:28:07.120 20 and then you turn into Michael Schellenberger. That's exactly his story, by the way. He got hired

00:28:12.080 for Greenpeace and then sort of learned some things and now has become the brilliant guy on climate that

00:28:17.600 we know him to be. This is totally different. Like the Israel thing is special in the way that

00:28:22.720 I don't know the person who would see 1400 dead civilians murdered in their beds in their cribs

00:28:29.600 and within 24 hours put out a statement blaming them entirely and cheering it on the streets.

00:28:35.120 That asshole college professor. He was a young guy to saying he was exhilarated by it. He was excited.

00:28:40.720 There's something wrong with those. There's something especially wrong with those people.

00:28:44.640 Well, what we've done is we've created, not you obviously, or people listening,

00:28:50.320 but we've created these people in our society, Megan. I'll explain it this way. Let's say I raise

00:28:57.360 my sons and I have a dream of raising football players, right? But I never tell them about

00:29:02.800 football. I never let them watch football, but instead I get them super strong. They're in the

00:29:07.840 weight room. They're out there doing various other sports. So they're fast, they're strong,

00:29:12.080 they're ready to go. And then one day they discover football and boom, I've got some good

00:29:16.960 football players on my hands. Why? Because I've created them. I've nurtured, I've put all the

00:29:21.440 structure in place to create a football player. All it would take at the end is them discovering

00:29:26.640 it just a little nudge and boom, I've got me a football player on my hands. That's what we've

00:29:30.640 done with young people, not just young people. Actually, that's not fair. There's a lot of older

00:29:33.840 people that are just the same in this country. That's what happens when you educate people in a country

00:29:39.760 for years and years and years and years and years about why their country sucks.

00:29:44.720 It really does matter. What you've done is when you start in the third grade and you tell them,

00:29:48.800 you know what America is? Slavery. And by the time you get to college, you're telling them how

00:29:52.960 horrible everything is. When you do that to generation after generation, no, they may not

00:29:58.160 have been vicious little Hamas praising murderers last year, but you've put the structure in place.

00:30:04.560 They've lifted the weights. They've run the sprints. They're ready to go. And now all it takes

00:30:09.520 is a new cause. All you have to do is aim them in whatever direction you want. And they're prepped

00:30:15.280 and ready to go. We have a nation of young people, especially, but we have a nation now, 20, 30%,

00:30:22.000 pick your number of commies prepped, ready to go. They've lifted the weights. They've run the sprints.

00:30:27.520 All it's going to take is a direction. Just push them that direction and they're off.

00:30:32.400 You're so right. I got to hearing you explain it. That sounds exactly right. I, you know,

00:30:38.400 cause I was talking to my friend, her, her son is at NYU and we were talking about the lunacy there.

00:30:44.440 And she was saying, and she's right, this wouldn't happen to him because she and her husband have

00:30:49.500 raised him differently. Like the, they're raising their kids the way you and I are raising our kids,

00:30:53.400 fortifying them before they go off to these institutions to deal with the nonsense.

00:30:58.320 And it's not an indoctrination to the right. It's just an understanding on how to critically think,

00:31:03.220 understanding who you are, where you come from, love of country. You're inoculated against the

00:31:08.000 madness. And yet there's this other set of parents out there doing something very different. Like,

00:31:13.400 as you say, priming the pump to get them ready to receive the, they'll, the host virus and let it

00:31:19.740 fester and grow. And, and they, a lot of these parents now that you're seeing, you're seeing

00:31:26.240 this, especially in older Jewish parents. They clearly did not realize what they were doing.

00:31:31.860 They didn't realize they were priming that pump and getting them lifting weights, ready for football.

00:31:35.280 There was a story a couple of days ago. I covered it on my show, uh, in the, as a New York post,

00:31:39.660 it was in the New York post about a Brooklyn dad, a Jewish dad who fired his own son. And I'm not

00:31:45.660 going to list the guy's name. I actually don't like when they call these people and they blast their

00:31:48.940 names and stuff like that out there, but he's a Jewish dad fires his own son. If you go through

00:31:52.760 the article, why did he fire his son? His son is out there. Dad is Jewish. His son is out there

00:31:59.440 with his girlfriend, ripping down all these posters of missing Israeli kids and things like that.

00:32:05.440 Pro Hamas, kill all the Jews. Yeah. Kill all these Jews, all these other things. And dad is out

00:32:11.180 there saying, that's not who he is. That's not how I raised him. Well, I'm sorry, no matter what you

00:32:16.760 are, if you raise your child to be a Democrat in this country, because it's not 1960 anymore,

00:32:22.620 JFK is long gone in 2023. If you raise your child to be a Democrat, that is how you raised them.

00:32:28.540 You raised them to be foot soldiers, to be little commie foot soldiers. And so when they turn out

00:32:32.960 that way, don't look back in horror. I know Donald Trump is a big meanie McMean face and that justified

00:32:39.160 everything. You raise your kids to be a Democrat in this country. Don't be shocked when that's how they

00:32:44.020 turn out. I still see a split between the woke Democrats and the regular ones. I have. I know

00:32:48.880 I have so many people I love in my life who are normal Democrats. Now we won't vote the same

00:32:53.380 necessarily, but they're normal. There is. They don't believe in this shit either, but they have

00:32:57.280 to be non woke. If you're a woke Democrat, you're in danger and you're probably raising kids who are

00:33:02.160 potentially in danger of being susceptible to this virus that you can catch very easily on college

00:33:09.800 campuses or even high schools. And we're going to do a story when we come back about this school

00:33:14.860 district out in L.A. We saw something similar in New Jersey yesterday, canceling Halloween.

00:33:19.600 Halloween's off. It's too upsetting. Not everybody celebrates it. We can't upset the people.

00:33:24.420 All right. We'll pause. We'll break. We'll come back with that. Don't go away. Jesse Kelly

00:33:28.760 stays with us. Joe Biden is in some trouble, my friend. These are terrible numbers. This Gallup

00:33:39.900 poll is devastating. Overall approval is at 37 percent. His 11th quarter average approval rating,

00:33:49.520 if you look at the span of his presidency, is 40 percent. That's worse than Trump's.

00:33:53.400 The only president who had a lower lower rating post-World War II was Jimmy Carter. Whenever you

00:33:59.480 use that particular J.C. guy, it does. It's not good. You don't want to be compared to that J.C.

00:34:05.560 Among Democrats only, his approval rating is at 75 percent. It's down 11 points since last month.

00:34:13.820 His approval rating with independents is only at 35. That's down four points since last month.

00:34:20.620 These are devastating. This is why you have a new guy getting in against him. You got this guy,

00:34:25.900 Dean Phillips, Democrat from Minnesota, who's saying, and I quote, I am the Democratic candidate

00:34:32.380 who can win. He's saying very clearly Biden will lose for Trump to Trump. Biden will lose. So what

00:34:40.040 do you make of this devastation? Because it looks like Gallup suggests it's Israel that's turning his

00:34:46.280 own party against him. Oh, yeah, because about a quarter of the Democrat party base, they hate

00:34:52.200 everything that we already elaborated on what they are. So Joe Biden can't possibly for his party,

00:34:58.200 for the modern Democrat party, he can't possibly take any stance on Israel that will be acceptable

00:35:03.840 to them because two thirds of Jewish people in America, they do vote Democrat. So he has to make

00:35:09.320 sure they are happy. At the same time, he has a base that believes every Israeli and every Jew should

00:35:14.960 be wiped off the face of the planet by Hamas. He's trying to keep them happy as well. So no matter

00:35:18.960 what, somebody is going to be unhappy. But before this Israel stuff even kicked off, he was unpopular

00:35:23.840 anyway. Look, Megan, I give him another month or two. I've maintained this. I'll be the first one to

00:35:29.400 come on here and tell you I was wrong. If I'm wrong, I have long maintained for over a year. They're

00:35:33.740 never going to let Joe Biden be the nominee again. The system, they have everything in place. They've

00:35:38.640 taken over every institution. Everything is working out perfectly. They're not going to,

00:35:43.400 for the sake of Joe Biden, allow him to risk screwing that up. They've even got a system in

00:35:48.520 place now where they're going to throw in prison the likely Republican nominee before the election.

00:35:54.140 They have everything set up. Everything is perfect for them. They're not going to risk anything on

00:35:59.100 behalf of Joe Biden. I give them a month or two and you and me will be sitting right here off the

00:36:05.480 Joe Biden press conference and he's going to announce it'll be health problems. You know what it'll

00:36:09.860 be, Megan? It's obviously he's not going to leave in disgrace. He's going to say, ah, my heart's,

00:36:14.580 I've got a bad cough or something like that with a heavy heart. I've got to go and he's going to

00:36:18.520 resign and then it'll be Gavin Newsom. The system is not going to allow, they're not going to risk at

00:36:23.800 all for Joe Biden's sake, their power, not in a million years, not in a million years. He's not

00:36:28.720 going to be the number. It would be interesting though. Of course, Gavin Newsom wants it and he's

00:36:32.380 already, you know, trying to lay the foundation for that going over to Israel when no one needs

00:36:36.180 him. Um, however, this guy, Dean Phillips is more moderate than Gavin Newsom. Of course,

00:36:43.540 I mean, everyone is, but here's how he defend, he explained the need for his presence in the race

00:36:49.940 on CBS. Uh, I think this morning, watch it. I think president Biden has done a spectacular job

00:36:57.160 for our country, but it's not about the past. This is an election about the future. I will not sit still.

00:37:03.340 I will not be quiet in the face of numbers that are so clearly saying that we're going to be facing

00:37:08.500 an emergency next November. Do you believe that your candidacy could soften the ground

00:37:13.440 for others to get in? I hope it does. I know it's rare for somebody entering this arena to actually

00:37:20.180 invite competition, but we need it. And he should have ended that interview, Jesse with,

00:37:25.760 I am not suicidal. I am not suicidal. Well, look, obviously no one's ever heard of Dean Phillips.

00:37:32.960 And so he's not going to do anything, but there's an old saying, and I'm going to screw this up because

00:37:37.660 I'm uneducated white trash about if you attack God, you don't have to defeat God. You just have

00:37:43.020 to cut God. You just have to make sure other people can see him bleed and then they will cease

00:37:47.580 believing and they will all attack him and eventually win. The fact that any Democrat, including

00:37:52.480 some no-name congressman no one's ever heard of before, is willing to get in the race and is now

00:37:57.280 doing national interviews, that in and of itself actually is a really big deal. Even if Dean Phillips

00:38:03.180 is not a big deal and won't be the nominee, that shows you the ground is shaky enough. If you're

00:38:08.660 going to come at the president and challenge him in a primary, look, Gavin Newsom, as you just pointed

00:38:13.380 out, he's prepped, he's ready to go. He has the campaign infrastructure already in place,

00:38:18.140 prepped and ready to go. I know that for a fact. He has the fundraising infrastructure in place.

00:38:22.480 He's ready to go and they want him. So it's going to happen.

00:38:25.940 Oh my gosh. It could be representative Jamal Bowman. What about him? He's got talents that

00:38:33.900 really shouldn't be underestimated. You know, you need to be, you have a flair for the dramatic

00:38:37.900 in order to get ahead in presidential politics. The news update on this guy is so delicious.

00:38:43.660 I can hardly contain myself for the viewers at home. Just a reference. He's the guy who pulled

00:38:49.580 the fire alarm to stop the voting on the budget extension. I don't, it's like whatever the

00:38:56.060 Democrats didn't want to vote. And Jamal Bowman decided to help his conference and go pull the

00:39:00.440 fire alarm, which you may know is against the law. Then he tried to deny that he pulled the fire

00:39:05.660 alarm. He tried to claim that he was just innocently trying to walk out the door. And so he could do the

00:39:10.620 vote. He didn't realize he was pulling a fire alarm, even though the video shows him clearly going over

00:39:14.340 the little box that reads fire and pulling the little fire thing down. I'm going to take a

00:39:19.760 little bit of credit on this, Jesse, because let me show you something here. I'm going to set it up

00:39:24.780 first. Here is the video that just got released. He wasn't confused. That was his defense. Oh,

00:39:30.320 I was confused. I thought I was just going to go through these doors and I would be fine. But they,

00:39:34.080 you know, next thing I knew they set off the fire alarm. No, you pulled the fire alarm. The doors

00:39:37.600 didn't confuse you. In fact, we now know he pulled down the two red warning signs that were on the door

00:39:45.020 saying this is going to set off an alarm. Here he is. There he is. Look at him. He's removing them

00:39:53.240 before our very eyes. I don't know what he does to the signs, but he is truly caught red handed,

00:40:01.400 like literally red handed. And let me take you back to when the story first broke. We discussed it on

00:40:07.240 the show, October 2nd with Dave Rubin. And let me tell you what, listen to what I said.

00:40:14.060 Well, if you look at the actual picture, see, this is what we see all over the internet.

00:40:17.600 Jamal Bowman's not in it. And you've got these two signs saying, press the door for three seconds

00:40:22.280 and the doors will open. Alarm will sound. It doesn't say anything about the fire alarm

00:40:26.580 on the, on the wall. But if you look at the actual picture of the moment Jamal Bowman was in the fire,

00:40:30.980 was in the hallway, those red signs are not there. You can see the backs of two other signs that are on

00:40:36.500 the outsides of the doors. So I don't buy that. The red signs caused him any confusion,

00:40:42.560 which is what some people are saying. I don't buy that. There was no confusion. He pulled the fire

00:40:47.480 alarm and he knew very well what they were going to do. I'm so pleased with myself. I have to say,

00:40:54.220 I didn't realize he took the signs away, but I knew his bullshit because those signs were not there.

00:41:00.540 And Megan, you've been on Capitol Hill. I'm sure you've been on Capitol Hill. What haven't you done?

00:41:05.380 There's cameras everywhere. With the exception of maybe Las Vegas, it's got to be the most

00:41:10.780 surveilled area. One of the most surveilled areas, honestly, in the world, there is a camera

00:41:15.300 everywhere. They know when you go to the bathroom and this is a congressman who thought, look,

00:41:21.760 honestly, Jamal Bowman's an idiot, obviously an idiot and a piece of trash. But if you think you're

00:41:27.500 disappointed now, wait till you see the results of the next election. I keep saying this, Megan,

00:41:33.020 we blame these politicians because we have a bunch of idiot loser politicians, but we don't have a

00:41:39.460 politician problem in this country. We have a people problem. These people are all elected.

00:41:44.140 We have a people in this nation. We have a culture of people, especially various parts of this country

00:41:49.520 that have no idea what they want. They're complete morons or just total communists. And they continue

00:41:55.440 to go elect these people time and time again. We can point at AOC and make fun of her all we want.

00:42:00.520 She won by over 70% of the vote last time. Jamal Bowman on camera just walked up and yanked a fire

00:42:06.620 alarm and then lied about it. Again, all these things are on camera. They're all easily accessible.

00:42:10.760 I can pick up my phone right now and pull up video of any of this stuff. Any idiot could.

00:42:15.100 And Jamal Bowman will be reelected easily in his district the next time. So do we have a Jamal Bowman

00:42:21.500 problem or do we have a people problem? We have a people problem. And the people problem,

00:42:25.600 we don't want to talk about that because it's much more difficult to fix. It's much more daunting.

00:42:30.600 It's easy to convince yourself, I'll just get rid of Jamal Bowman and the country will be fine.

00:42:34.840 Well, you could replace the entire government with a bunch of clones of Thomas Jefferson.

00:42:38.980 If you still have a people problem, you fix nothing. And we will fix nothing until we fix the people.

00:42:44.200 It's so true. And honestly, the media, too, because if this were, you know, Senator Josh Hawley,

00:42:49.460 can you imagine the amount of coverage that that video would be everywhere? This guy lied. Not only

00:42:58.120 did he pull the fire alarm intentionally, very he lied repeatedly to investigators, to the public.

00:43:04.040 He comes up. Actually, let me play the MSNBC clip at the time because the media is a bunch of dumb

00:43:08.400 asses that goes right along with any excuse to give him. This is soundbite for from when the story

00:43:12.360 broke September 30. There was a mention of Jamal Bowman, Congressman Jamal Bowman and the pulling of

00:43:18.140 some sort of fire alarm. I just want to read for you some of the reporting so you understand what

00:43:21.140 actually went on there. There were some reports that began to emerge about Representative Bowman,

00:43:26.280 who was seen pulling some sort of fire alarm in the Cannon House office building earlier today.

00:43:31.840 We got a statement on that saying Congressman Bowman did not realize he would trigger a building

00:43:37.340 alarm as he was rushing to make an urgent vote. The Congressman regrets any confusion,

00:43:42.100 just to clarify some things on that.

00:43:43.580 What's clarified is you're a dope and you trusted the wrong person who lied to you,

00:43:51.540 who lied to investigators. Now he's pleading guilty. He's going to. He's been charged

00:43:55.420 with a misdemeanor of raising of raising a false fire alarm, faces a max sentence of six months in

00:44:01.760 prison, which he's not going to get, and a fine of up to a thousand, which I think is what he's going

00:44:05.040 to pay now. But he lied to the cops. He lied to everybody. He said, I never intended to cause a

00:44:10.240 fire alarm. I never intended to cause a security concern. I never intended to disrupt disrupt or

00:44:14.780 obstruct a congressional proceeding. There are guys who don't have a representative in front of

00:44:19.420 their name who have been sentenced to longer actual jail time for doing far less on January 6th to

00:44:25.680 disrupt a congressional proceeding. It's absurd. All right, I've got to get to this. I've got to get

00:44:30.440 to this other thing before, because if I don't get to ask Jesse Kelly about this, I'm going to be

00:44:34.600 very sad madness up north in Canada. Okay. In our next hour, we're going to be doing some stuff on

00:44:41.800 the crazy trans stuff. A 50 year old man was allowed to swim and compete against a bunch of 13 year old

00:44:52.800 girls in a swim meet. He declared himself a girl and he was allowed to swim against nine girls.

00:45:04.600 Who were 13 at the oldest, 14 years old. He, his name is Nicholas Cepeda, but he goes by Melody

00:45:12.980 Weishart.

00:45:16.020 Of course he does.

00:45:20.860 Megan.

00:45:21.560 Jesse.

00:45:22.240 Okay. One, one, I admire the balls it takes to swim against 13 year old girls, especially when

00:45:27.160 they're 50 years old in this case, quite literally. And also Megan, this is what, this is what it's

00:45:33.760 hard for people to understand about all this trans mania and why it happens so fast. This isn't even

00:45:38.940 the bottom Megan. This isn't even the bottom because this kind of insanity that's, let's be

00:45:44.340 honest with you. When you're doing that to 13 year old girls and they're changing in front of them,

00:45:48.200 I don't know if this guy did, but the horrible things they're doing to women.

00:45:51.180 They might've been, we haven't been able to find out whether he actually made it in the locker

00:45:54.240 room. The questions, it's a good question mark right now.

00:45:57.040 He probably did. And the girls would be called bigots or something like that. If they didn't

00:46:00.580 want him in there, this stuff, this isn't even the end. It's just evil. And evil doesn't stop.

00:46:06.280 It just goes down and down and down. The evil never stops. It's a black hole without a bottom.

00:46:11.440 We will look back on this five, 10 years. So now as the more innocent times, I know that sounds like

00:46:17.580 the most insane thing in the world, but we will because evil doesn't stop on its own. It stops when it's

00:46:23.600 when someone good stops it and not before.

00:46:26.400 I hope you're wrong. The rebel news, those geniuses up north in Canada who are fighting

00:46:30.320 the good fight are the ones who alerted us to the story. Here's a bit of their reporting on it.

00:46:34.320 Watch this.

00:46:35.560 How does a 50 year old male get to compete with teenage girls?

00:46:40.400 Well, it's not actually, I don't think that it happened because I'm actually the competition

00:46:44.820 coordinator for this meet. I do not recall there's a 50 years old man swimming in here on the Friday

00:46:50.140 competing with little kids. It's my mistake. We did actually indeed, there was someone actually

00:46:55.340 swimming on that. Okay. However, they would be melody, right? Well, I don't know exactly because

00:47:01.180 I wasn't personally. So there's no name on that list. Yes. There's a lame in here. That's why I'm

00:47:04.940 saying I'm validating whatever the sheet that you have is correct. So what happened is that session

00:47:10.300 is actually allow any age swimmer. I don't, don't get into with me on age because it's all based on

00:47:16.860 on what swimming Canada's registration. And what I don't understand is that nine out of the 10

00:47:21.880 participants were female and either 13 or 14. And the 10th participant was a male 50 years of age.

00:47:28.740 Okay. So as I said, don't talk about gender for me because I do not know. I could, I could come to

00:47:34.940 an event like this. I could say I identify as a 13 year old girl and I swim with the 13 year old

00:47:39.540 girls. We based on swimming Canada registration. So the guy tried to deny it at first, then admitted it.

00:47:45.580 Here's the capper ready. You're, you could see it coming. I'll give you one guess what

00:47:50.380 melody's day job is. Jesse Kelly, given what we've been discussing this hour.

00:47:54.820 Oh my gosh. Gotta be a teacher. Has to be a teacher. Yes. A college professor. Toronto's

00:48:02.980 York university areas of research include children. This is a sick effort and the parents wouldn't go on

00:48:11.620 camera with rebel news. Shame on you too. Shame on you for letting your daughters participate in

00:48:16.260 that. You should have, I, I, I, Melody, I dare you to come here to Connecticut and try to play

00:48:22.320 soccer on my daughter's field. It's going to be so fun. I'm going to get Jesse Kelly because the

00:48:26.540 Kelly's back each other up and your ass is going to be off of that soccer field so fast. It's going

00:48:31.660 to make your pretty little head spin. Okay. Yes. Love talking to you. You probably you'll come,

00:48:37.240 right? You got, you got me. Count me in Megan. I'll book my flight tomorrow. Okay. Right after

00:48:42.580 you interview the Hamas protesters, I'm looking forward to next week with Jesse Kelly to be

00:48:47.080 continued. We'll be right back. Now I'm joined by two psychotherapists who are deeply involved in

00:48:57.200 providing sane and useful standards of care when it comes to gender identity. Can I tell you something

00:49:02.580 when this whole thing started to really explode? And at least I started paying attention to it.

00:49:08.940 Uh, it was shortly around where we launched the show, which was September of 2020. And one of our

00:49:14.800 first guests, you guys have heard me say before was Abigail Schreier who wrote the must read irreversible

00:49:20.480 damage. And we talked about how the entire industry of psychotherapy for children when it comes to gender

00:49:27.340 confusion has been co-opted that you can't trust these psychiatric authorities, the psychotherapy

00:49:34.140 authorities, because the entire industry had adopted and affirm, affirm, affirm only standard

00:49:40.920 of care. So well-meaning parents just trying to like stop this rollercoaster, bringing their kids in

00:49:47.160 for therapy because they accurately deduce my, I think my kid's going through something and I need

00:49:51.960 somebody to help them work that out, walked right into the train, right? They, they crashed right

00:49:57.780 into it because they didn't know these therapists had been told by the American psychiatry association,

00:50:03.500 the American Academy of pediatrics, that the only appropriate thing to do when someone says I might

00:50:07.380 be a different gender, I'm kind of confused is to say, you're right, you're right. And if your parents

00:50:12.840 disagree, you need to stiff arm them there. You're going to kill yourself if you don't get affirmed all

00:50:18.020 around. It was insane. So it was very scary. I remember asking Abigail, like, well, what should

00:50:23.200 parents do then? And she said, be very careful where you take them. Do not blindly trust this

00:50:29.160 industry. Well, that was 2020. And this pushback by many in this field had not yet fully begun in

00:50:36.980 earnest. That is where my guests today come in. Their organization is called Genspect. It's an

00:50:43.940 international alliance of professionals, including trans people, D transitioners, parent groups and

00:50:49.880 others who are seeking a healthy approach to this issue and pushing back on the insane lunacy that's

00:50:58.160 being forced on our children. Stella O'Malley is the executive director and founder of Genspect and Joe

00:51:04.900 Burgo is vice director. Welcome to the show, Stella and Joe. Great to have you. Great to be here.

00:51:11.060 I'm so pleased. I, you know, for years now we've been asking, where is the industry itself

00:51:18.080 standing up for children? Where, where are the people who are, who have devoted their lives

00:51:22.480 to the wellness of kids to push back on the madness? And it seems like you guys were asking

00:51:28.140 yourselves that same question. Well, it's very difficult to speak out when you're a lone voice

00:51:33.400 and you get told you're a transphobic bigot, even for asking what would be considered very

00:51:39.300 conventional psychotherapeutic questions. And so an awful lot of therapists like myself and Joe and

00:51:45.260 others have been silenced in a way that I'd never experienced in my life before. Usually psychotherapists

00:51:53.040 aren't really in the middle of the media or talking about controversial topics. Usually we're boring

00:51:58.440 people, deep psychological analysis. And yet in this world, in this extraordinary world where

00:52:05.040 mental distress has been weaponized into a kind of something to bludgeon people with and silence

00:52:12.840 people with, it's just become a horrendous issue. And these are the most vulnerable kids. These are

00:52:19.020 the autistic kids, kids who might one day grow up to be gay or lesbian. These are really, really

00:52:24.520 vulnerable kids. It's the savvy kids aren't getting caught up in this. It's the lost, vulnerable,

00:52:29.260 sad kids that are getting lost in this whole thing.

00:52:31.880 That's a good point. Joe, tell me, because you're a psychotherapist, was there a period during which

00:52:36.700 you were asking yourself the same questions I was just espousing out loud? Like, what are we doing?

00:52:42.760 What is happening? This is madness. Was there a whisper campaign amongst people in your field about

00:52:48.120 what are we doing?

00:52:50.340 I had a more personal entry into this field. I had a child at the age of 14 trans identified. This was 10

00:52:57.180 years ago before any of this was on the radar. So I went through all of this firsthand as a parent,

00:53:03.860 couldn't find support in the psychotherapeutic community, was basically treated with contempt by

00:53:09.880 the medical community. And I kind of went away. My child alienated herself from her family eventually.

00:53:18.060 And I went away for a long time until I couldn't just sit by any longer. So I started looking around

00:53:24.600 for people who were trying to offer something other than affirmative care. And that's when I found

00:53:30.560 I found Geta. I found Sasha Ayad, Lisa Marciano and Stella and originally joined one organization

00:53:37.220 where Stella and I met and then signed on with Genspect when I found there were other people like

00:53:43.280 me who were who were trying to offer something different.

00:53:45.660 You must have been so relieved to find other people who, you know, seemed reasonable, right? Just

00:53:54.820 not not so agenda driven.

00:53:57.840 Right. Totally, totally. And people who I mean, therapists, the great thing is meeting other

00:54:02.340 therapists who actually still believe in doing therapy. You know that if somebody is genuinely

00:54:08.340 distressed about feeling like she's a boy in a girl's body, well, there's there's some issues

00:54:13.460 there that need to be explored. It's obviously genuine, this distress, but it doesn't require

00:54:18.820 affirmation and support for this. I call it a delusional belief system. It's the distress is

00:54:25.480 real and they need real help.

00:54:28.620 And so, I mean, you guys came together. Stella, you talk about your origins and getting into the

00:54:35.020 group and finding yourself pushing back against all of this.

00:54:38.040 Well, I kind of I had an unusual kind of route in as well. When I was a kid for very many years

00:54:45.060 as a very young kid from the age of about three, right up through puberty. So for many, many

00:54:49.860 years, I was the classic kind of childhood onset gender dysphoria. It would have been called

00:54:55.360 gender identity disorder back when I was a kid. And I certainly wasn't affirmed. Nobody was affirmed

00:55:01.540 back then. I was seen as a very odd kid and I was a very odd kid. I was also an unhappy kid,

00:55:07.180 but I was very, very insistent and persistent and consistent as the clinicians seek these days to

00:55:13.060 find out whether they should block children's puberty. And it was the process of puberty

00:55:19.400 that brought me out of a wretched, depressing experience of my childhood. So I kind of rejected

00:55:27.420 myself in the most fundamental way for many, many, many years all through my childhood. I wanted to be a

00:55:33.800 boy. I was sure I should be a boy. I was better as a boy. I made everybody see me as a boy. I was

00:55:39.240 very insistent and intense about it. Then puberty came and with puberty comes a sexual awakening and

00:55:44.680 that sexual awakening takes years. You know what I mean? Especially for a girl. I think, I think

00:55:49.380 with a boy, it seems to come in like a rocket. With a girl, it's a subtler, longer affair in many ways,

00:55:57.140 but certainly it wasn't actually that subtle for me. But I certainly, the, the arrival of

00:56:03.320 sexual awakening, fancying other people, realizing that I had to stop thinking of myself and start

00:56:10.460 thinking about myself in terms of other people for relationships. That was the process that brought

00:56:17.560 me out of gender dysphoria. So when I first heard about the idea of blocking children's puberty,

00:56:25.060 I literally stood still in the street saying, oh, you can't do that. That's blocking the very thing

00:56:30.100 that will actually help these kids. Difficult as it was, and I don't want to undermine these kids'

00:56:35.560 experiences. Honestly, my puberty was harrowing. It was a train wreck. It was a terrible time,

00:56:40.460 but it was what I needed to go through to come out the other side. Many years later, I became a

00:56:46.020 psychotherapist and learned the value of sometimes you do need to go through things to get a deeper

00:56:51.880 understanding to come through it. And then some years after that, I was invited to take part in

00:56:57.480 a film actually called Trans Kids. It's Time to Talk. This is 2018. And we, the concept of the film

00:57:04.300 was just to ask, could any of the 4,000% rise in female adolescents seeking medical transition,

00:57:10.820 could any of them be like me and actually be better off going through puberty naturally,

00:57:15.980 having a sexual awakening, becoming a woman and becoming very happy? You know, one of the most

00:57:21.240 important, well, probably the most important part of me is that I'm a mother. And had I transitioned,

00:57:26.720 had I been offered puberty blockers, I would have grabbed them from anybody who offered them to me.

00:57:31.680 And I would have sought medical transition. And so I have quite a deep understanding of what it's like

00:57:38.440 to experience it. But I also think it's really, really important that we don't let children lead.

00:57:44.360 It's more important for the adults in the room to take the responsibility, and it can be hard,

00:57:48.880 to be actually, let's say, child-centered, but adult-led. These days, the affirmative approach

00:57:55.260 is child-led. And so the child is literally leading all the adults in the room about when to change their

00:58:01.020 name, what toilets to use, what sports team they should go on, what pronouns they should use. And kids

00:58:07.160 can't take that much responsibility. It's too much power, and they're too immature.

00:58:10.680 Sure. You know, as we, I assume you guys were not sitting around watching our first hour, but

00:58:16.520 the, I'm sensing a theme because we were talking about some of the madness on college campuses and

00:58:21.460 how students at Stanford are now demanding that the university denounce Israel and issue statements

00:58:29.080 asking for a ceasefire. They want Stanford University to put out a statement saying that.

00:58:33.020 And they're demanding 24-7 trauma counselors for themselves. And it really is, to me,

00:58:39.880 I see a common theme here where we're just over and over ceding authority to kids. And now,

00:58:47.680 by the time they get to Stanford, they're drunk on their own power. They're used to having adults

00:58:52.080 bend the knee to them. Like, yes, that they are in charge. They're going to make the decisions as

00:58:56.140 opposed to, I think, when the three of us were coming up where you understood adults were the

00:59:00.260 authority figures. And here and there, you'd push back and you'd test the limits, but you understood

00:59:04.740 who had the final say, and it wasn't you. And I know that you've written, and you guys both feel,

00:59:11.520 the thing about puberty, that it's actually a human right, that puberty is a human right,

00:59:15.680 and that this so-called pause, this, this, like, harmless pause that you get with puberty blockers

00:59:23.500 is anything but.

00:59:27.760 I think it's a very insidious thing to do to block somebody's sexual awakening, especially when

00:59:34.740 children who have, you know, gender dysphoria are around about 70 to 80% more likely to be gay.

00:59:42.920 So the little kids like me, I actually turned out to be heterosexual, but most of them end up being

00:59:48.720 lesbian or gay. So to block their sexual awakening when specifically they might have a more difficult

00:59:56.100 route into their sexual self because they're sexual minorities, it's a profoundly authoritarian

01:00:04.900 thing to do, to come in and block somebody's development. We have no idea of, you know, the ache you

01:00:11.400 feel during adolescence, that kind of loneliness. It's the beginning of our search for a mate. It's the

01:00:18.560 beginning of our search for love. It's the most profound changes happen between the ages roughly 10

01:00:25.480 to 20. And to stop that development, I think we're going to look back in horror that we tried and we

01:00:33.540 succeeded in stopping people's sexual development. These are children, they hit, you know, very early

01:00:39.680 puberty. They don't even know what they are leading the way about. They don't even know what it's like

01:00:46.040 to have, let's say, a yearning for a baby. That's not going to hit them until their 30s. And it's quite

01:00:50.580 noticeable that, you know, some of the detransitioners are coming out and they're still

01:00:54.020 only in their 20s. And one can't help but think, well, what's it going to be like when they're in

01:00:57.800 their 30s if they want to have children and they can't have children? That's still ahead of them

01:01:02.560 because this is a new experimental treatment that's maybe roughly a decade old in the large

01:01:09.400 scale. And it is going to be a very, very difficult kind of reckoning with the world when they realise

01:01:17.400 adults blocked children's sexual development. And now the children have become adults and are

01:01:22.960 dealing with the fallout.

01:01:24.820 If I can underscore something, I just want to underline something that Stella said about

01:01:31.480 the percentage of these kids winding up lesbian or gay when they grow up. As a gay man, I'm

01:01:38.740 really sensitive to this issue because it seems to me there's all this talk about conversion therapy

01:01:45.000 bans. But in fact, what blocking someone's puberty is and putting them on the path to hormones and

01:01:52.360 surgery. That's the conversion therapy. It's you're taking someone who, if you had left them

01:01:58.680 alone, would have gone through puberty and come to terms with his or her sexuality and wound up

01:02:05.000 being a somewhat gender nonconforming gay or lesbian person. And instead, what we're doing is where

01:02:10.680 we're converting them into, quote, normal heterosexuals. It's outrageous to me.

01:02:17.200 It would have been outrageous at any point, but especially in 2023 America.

01:02:22.360 When gays have equal rights, that struggle has been won. Gays and lesbians are doing better in

01:02:28.580 our country than in the history of our country. There is zero reason for someone to recoil against

01:02:36.820 a child seeming gay or lesbian. I mean, yes, maybe you have some religious belief, but there are very

01:02:42.180 few people. I don't know anybody anymore who's really reacting to that in the same way they did

01:02:47.060 when I was a kid, like in the 1970s. Back then, maybe you would have expected more of this kind

01:02:52.280 of thing. Like, oh, he's not gay. He's secretly a girl. But for this to be happening in today's day

01:02:58.320 and age is just like a new form of mental illness on the parents' part.

01:03:02.080 I think there's less acceptance than you might think, Megan. Even though we've got Obergefell and

01:03:09.740 gay marriage, it's very hard to be a gender non-conforming kid in middle school. They're

01:03:15.720 still bullying. They're still teasing. And I think this is why they opt out of it, right? You can be

01:03:22.460 bullied for being a gender non-conforming, you know, a camp boy or a butch girl, but then you can just

01:03:29.160 trans identify and suddenly you're a hero. You know, you're, you're no longer the bullied kid.

01:03:35.300 Well, also on, on what you were saying, Stella, on the autism, because having, you know, getting

01:03:41.140 diagnosed on the autism spectrum poses all sorts of challenges and many of them are social. So if that

01:03:47.640 gets flipped to, I'm not autistic, I'm just trans, you, once again, you go into hero status where

01:03:54.100 people are clapping for you on the auditorium stage. Yeah. Autistic people have a huge, there's a huge

01:04:01.060 overlap, lap with gender non-conforming children, autism, and then seeking trans identity. And,

01:04:08.100 you know, as I said earlier, they are very vulnerable, but on top of that, you know, a lot of,

01:04:13.220 especially autistic girls are, are, they have a later sexual development. They have a later kind

01:04:21.200 of sexual reckoning. They're, they're coming to terms with their body, maybe body processing or

01:04:26.240 body kind of sensory issues and things like that can be an issue with them. And as well as that,

01:04:31.820 they can have difficulty socially because it can be very, very sophisticated in the adolescent,

01:04:37.000 especially female adolescent years, that can be really hard on them. And if there's any,

01:04:42.360 as Joe said, any sort of gay lesbian issue, like it can just absolutely mess with their head.

01:04:46.820 What is interesting, I just want to go back to the gay lesbian thing for one minute.

01:04:50.680 What is interesting about being gay or lesbian or bisexual is you almost have to declare what turns

01:04:57.820 you on at a very young age when all the heterosexual kids can keep their head down and say nothing.

01:05:03.920 And they don't really, nobody, nobody has to declare anything except who you fancy.

01:05:07.760 And so we get away without any kind of declaration of our, our private sexual turn on.

01:05:17.220 And it's like gay and lesbian.

01:05:18.600 Well, can you expand on that? Why, why, Stella? Why, why do they have to declare?

01:05:21.600 Well, if you think about it, because if you're gay or lesbian, you kind of have to declare,

01:05:24.700 well, that turns me on or that, you know, a boy or a girl. Well, heterosexuals just don't have

01:05:29.680 to go there. They just don't have to, if you follow me, because there's, they're in the majority.

01:05:34.220 So they can just say, oh yeah, I fancy Jason. You fancy Joseph. Oh, that's great.

01:05:38.960 That we don't have to go there. Well, somebody who actually is gay or lesbian, it's, you're kind

01:05:43.200 of taking a left turn saying, no, no, I fancy Michelle or Debbie. And everybody's turned and

01:05:49.500 said, oh, oh, so that's, that's something new and unusual. There's a sexual vulnerability that you

01:05:55.900 have to show what turns you on at a much younger age. Well, if you're in the majority, nobody has to

01:06:04.200 know, it's just, you're just rolling with the crowd. Nobody's asking and nobody's really

01:06:09.420 expecting anything different. It's, it's a, I think it's underacknowledged. If you had to say

01:06:14.580 Megan or if I had to say what turned us off, no, thank you. Keep going.

01:06:20.100 To your point, like, I think that comes alive for most girls later. I think at the beginning,

01:06:23.840 you're just kind of like the boys are cute. You know, I like being around them. I like attention,

01:06:28.440 but like actual sexual desire to be, you know, like touched and have all that, that comes later

01:06:33.900 for the girls to your point, not for the boys. I think they're ready to go. 17. Let's go.

01:06:38.900 A lot of these girls, it's fascinating. A lot of these teenage girls, they declare themselves as,

01:06:44.000 let's say, trans boys. They're born a girl and they are also gay. So they're effectively straight

01:06:50.820 girls. So they're lesbians. They're lesbians. No, no. They're just, they're born. They're born.

01:06:56.080 What are they born? They're born girls. They identify as trans boys and they identify as gay

01:07:02.680 trans boys. And they are more common than you might think. So they, they are girls who fancy boys.

01:07:08.560 This is quite common. They're straight. They're straight. Right, right. Okay.

01:07:12.220 But they often fancy that pretty looking boy, you know, that pretty boy thing that's not very sexual.

01:07:18.960 And often girls who are just beginning their sexual awakening, they begin with those pretty boys

01:07:24.600 before they develop any further. And it's, it's fascinating to hear them say, you know, as a gay

01:07:31.640 guy and, you know, coming to terms of being gay and they're talking about being a trans boy.

01:07:38.560 They're not gay. They're, they're straight girls who are posing as boys who now are saying that

01:07:43.040 they're gay because they like, you know, what, what most women like, which is men. It's so confusing.

01:07:49.100 My God, I'm holding on by a string right now. You guys trying to follow, but let me, let me step back

01:07:55.180 one second because I like the framework in of where you guys are going. You're having, um,

01:08:01.140 a big conference. All right. It's in Denver, Colorado next week, November 4th and 5th. I love

01:08:06.320 everything about this. It's, you're going to be launching something called the gender framework,

01:08:09.960 a non medicalized approach to gender. This is the thing we need. And what I read, you guys can fill

01:08:19.360 in the blanks is that you're going to be pushing back against what's known as the W path standards

01:08:27.060 of care, the W path standards of care, which are insane. The W path standards just, just decided

01:08:37.300 that they would eliminate the requirement that you have at least a diagnosis of gender dysphoria,

01:08:44.000 which is not easy. It's not hard to get, but at least before you needed somebody to say you do

01:08:48.220 have gender dysphoria before you'd get the hormones or a surgeon to start cutting off your body parts.

01:08:54.320 And this group, which is like the governing body on these things just said, you know what? You don't

01:08:59.340 even need that. You just, it's just like, it's up to you. You know, your kid says he's gender dysphoric.

01:09:04.980 Go ahead. You can chop off his penis. That's crazy. So that's just one of the things that you guys are

01:09:10.960 trying to push back on. One of the W path regulations or pronouncements. Can you put it in context for us?

01:09:17.180 What is W path and why does it need an alternative, which is what you're doing?

01:09:21.600 Well, W path started in about 1979. It was a fringe organization. Very, very few, you know, people were

01:09:28.220 interested in medical transition and it was out on its own and it was kind of self-identified

01:09:32.980 authority for, for medical transition. All of it went and it released these standards of care over

01:09:39.180 the next few decades. So the first one was released in 1979. They kept on release in different standards

01:09:45.140 and their most recent was released in 2022, which was the eighth version of their standards of care.

01:09:51.240 And I would argue that it's quite a medicalized approach to gender diversity, i.e. it is showing

01:09:58.100 the road ahead about how to medicalize the difficulties with medicalization, the different

01:10:03.740 complications that maybe a doctor might have and how to resolve them. And it's like looking at gender

01:10:09.460 identity through a medical prism. And there isn't enough evidence base. There is no quality evidence

01:10:16.240 base to support these standards of care. So arguably it's a self-identified standards of care

01:10:20.480 because it's not really meeting the criteria for what usually a medical standards of care would be

01:10:26.980 considered. And so what it is, is it's a lot of recommendations that have a very low quality

01:10:32.520 evidence base in the research because the numbers are very small. The follow-up after surgery is

01:10:39.280 diabolical. The tracing of, you know, for example, post-medical transition suicide, the rates of that,

01:10:47.460 they don't do good follow-up studies. So we don't know what happens after five years or 10 years or 15 years.

01:10:54.640 There's very few studies and the numbers are very small. And the amount, the number of people who are

01:10:59.900 lost to follow up in these studies would make your head spin and make you think, I can't take this research

01:11:05.020 seriously at all. So rather than Genspect offering another medical approach and saying, well, we were worrying

01:11:10.960 about this and we're worrying about this and the quality of the research is low. We decided to turn the entire

01:11:15.640 concept on its head and offer instead a framework for society. So this is a framework for schools,

01:11:22.060 for prisons, for sports, for teachers, for psychotherapists, for families, for parents,

01:11:29.220 for the whole of society. It's a framework that is like a policy document and we're launching it in

01:11:34.020 Denver at our conference. You go onto our website, Genspect.org, you'll easily find details about our

01:11:39.320 conference. We're going to launch it at our conference and it's going to be open for public

01:11:44.260 review and consultation for the next nine months. And then we're going to launch kind of the official

01:11:50.040 version next September. And why we're having our conference in Denver and Colorado is we've

01:11:56.040 realised that over time, the silencing of people like ourselves has been very, very detrimental to

01:12:00.860 these young, gender diverse kids. The people have been, the really, really concerned people like

01:12:06.340 myself and Joe, we've been silenced so often that we needed to kind of fight back in quite an assertive

01:12:11.840 way. So what we've done is wherever WPATH, who are, you know, considered the authority on

01:12:17.060 transgender healthcare, wherever they have their conference, we have our conference in the same

01:12:21.360 town at the same time. So that clinicians can go to both conferences, so that we are challenging

01:12:27.920 the mindset, the kind of, the very, very unevidenced, narrow mindset that the only approach to being

01:12:36.120 distressed about whether you're a boy or a girl or wanting to be a man or a woman, that the only

01:12:40.940 approach is a medical, you know, approach. Instead, we're offering our non-medicalised approach,

01:12:47.040 saying, well, how about we look at gender in another way? It's almost like the psychotherapists

01:12:51.480 are in one conference saying, why don't you deepen your relationships? Why don't you get to know your

01:12:55.560 body and maybe make friends with your body? Why don't you maybe, you know, get in touch with sports

01:13:00.220 or maybe art, poetry, music, maybe friendships are love. I'm not sure what it is that's going to kind

01:13:06.320 of get somebody out. There's lots of ways into gender dysphoria. There's lots of ways out of

01:13:11.300 gender dysphoria. While up the road, arguably, the psychiatrists are talking about the different doses,

01:13:16.980 the different kind of medication that is needed. So imagine if the psychotherapists were talking

01:13:21.240 about depression, we'd be talking about all this kind of non-medicalised approach,

01:13:24.920 while psychiatrists could be arguably talking about a medicalised approach. Joe might disagree with me

01:13:28.680 with this analogy. In Genspect, we're offering a non-medicalised approach to gender, saying,

01:13:35.660 you know, dress whatever you want, like J.K. Rowling's tweets, dress whatever you want,

01:13:40.120 do whatever you want, present however you want. But that doesn't mean you can impose your gender

01:13:46.080 identity on the rest of the world. That doesn't mean you can go into any team sports or be a 50-year-old

01:13:51.000 in a 13-year-old swimming race or whatever. That doesn't give you carte blanche to do whatever you want

01:13:57.340 because of your identity. Rather, you have to negotiate your life within society.

01:14:02.720 And if you have gender diversity, there's lots of ways you can approach that. And it doesn't have

01:14:07.760 to be hormones. It doesn't have to be mastectomies. It doesn't have to be phalloplasties or vaginoplasty.

01:14:12.940 It doesn't have to be any of that. Just on one last point, the Standards of Care that was released

01:14:17.200 by WPath last year, 2022, it was an extraordinary document. They have a chapter on eunuch identities.

01:14:27.340 Now, this is kind of going back to Roman days where men were castrated. And it's extraordinary

01:14:33.660 to see this eunuch identity being offered up as if it's a healthy approach to somebody's gender

01:14:41.400 distress, where they would, like I say, it's a castration. They also had a chapter on ethics

01:14:49.260 and they removed the chapter on ethics. Not only did they remove the chapter on ethics,

01:14:53.760 they removed all the age minimum requirements for surgical interventions other than phalloplasty.

01:15:00.760 So they might have had, even though I wouldn't have agreed with them because they were very,

01:15:04.380 very young, they might have had minimum age requirements for a mastectomy to be 14 or,

01:15:08.720 you know, different kind of interventions to be different ages. Honestly, I think that's

01:15:14.240 ridiculously and way too young, but they removed them all. So there's actually no minimum age

01:15:18.780 requirement. And not only that, the harrowing stories of the detransitioners, and I have no

01:15:22.700 doubt you're going to ask us about them, those awful, sad, terrible, terrible stories, they were reframed

01:15:28.360 as just another step on a gendered journey. As in, you know, you might detransition, that's done,

01:15:33.660 you know, it's not as if something dreadful and medical malpractice has taken place.

01:15:38.240 Rather, you've taken another step on your journey. So because WPath have so badly lost their way,

01:15:45.480 we feel it's very necessary to kind of, as such, have a conference in the same town as they are

01:15:50.580 having. So Denver, Colorado, and then again, yeah. And just so people know, WPath Towns for World

01:15:57.720 Professional Association for Transgender Health. But did they, you know, I know that the American

01:16:03.660 Psychiatric Association, they've been captured by this, the American Academy of Pediatrics,

01:16:08.240 they've been captured by this. So, I mean, would this be something that a school district,

01:16:15.080 a parent in a school that's doing the, we're affirming behind the parents back, would this

01:16:20.340 eventually what you're creating be a document that, you know, Joe, a parent could walk in there and

01:16:25.920 say, oh, no, no, look at this. This is all America's psychologists. These are credentialed.

01:16:31.900 Absolutely. Chapter three in the framework is about parents and schools. And the appendix includes

01:16:40.460 model guidance for schools and school districts to replace the one that's currently in effect,

01:16:46.380 which basically validates gender ideology and treats it as established fact. So yeah,

01:16:52.140 there's model legislation, there's model schools policies, there's a lot of material that's going

01:16:57.720 to be useful to members of society across the board. And I want to sort of emphasize this point

01:17:03.240 that Stella made is that, you know, this is a document that's geared not just to parents and

01:17:10.200 children who are suffering from gender dysphoria, but it's a civilization-wide challenge to gender

01:17:19.020 ideology, which has now been codified in laws, in school policies, treated as if it's fact,

01:17:25.720 when it's completely un-evidenced. We feel that really, if we're going to do anything about

01:17:31.820 gender dysphoria, if we're going to treat it in a different way from what WPATH is recommending,

01:17:37.500 it has to be a society-wide challenge to the way gender ideology has taken hold everywhere,

01:17:44.440 including, Megan, as you mentioned, the American Academy of Pediatrics. I mean, it's everywhere.

01:17:50.240 Did you, Joe, did you experience this on the parent level, like the society around,

01:17:55.020 I don't know how long ago that happened for you, but where everybody else was like affirming and

01:17:59.440 wanting to set your daughter down this one path and you were back there going, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:18:05.220 Well, totally. I mean, earlier in my practice, one of my very first cases when I was in training

01:18:10.940 was a young woman who would today be identified as trans identified, who insisted she was a boy.

01:18:18.020 And I worked with her for years and helped her come to terms with being a woman and she became

01:18:23.460 a mother. And it was a really satisfying experience for me. And so when my daughter announced that she

01:18:29.780 was trans identified, I already had some pretty well-developed views on this topic and what might

01:18:35.380 be going on. Plus, I knew my daughter better than anybody else who was treating her. So yeah, I was like,

01:18:41.380 this is insane. I mean, I was, I think I probably wasn't terribly diplomatic. You know, I think I was

01:18:48.040 probably a little bit disdainful in saying, you know, you can't become a boy. It's impossible to

01:18:53.860 change your sex. I'm sorry. You know, I just was very impatient with it. And then I was beaten down,

01:18:59.600 beaten down by the system of support all around her. Even then, this was 10 years ago.

01:19:04.060 So the therapists, the teachers, the friends, you know, everybody's, you know, championing her

01:19:11.060 as, you know, heroic for coming out as trans. So what are you supposed to do in that position if

01:19:17.600 you're a parent? I work with a lot of teens whose parents have asked me to see them because they're

01:19:24.880 trans identified and they're trying to, so Stella has done this work too. You're trying to hold off

01:19:30.100 from medicalizing. And I've, I've lately come to feel very pessimistic about working with that

01:19:37.280 cohort, with the kids only, because so much of the rest of the world is telling them something

01:19:43.080 completely different. I mean, how do you challenge a delusion when so much of the world, teachers,

01:19:49.900 friends, online people are affirming the delusion? How do you, how do you, I don't know.

01:19:57.760 Well, you're so right, but isn't this all part of it? You know, that when I look at the trans

01:20:02.900 activists who can be absolutely rabid and it's usually quote trans women, it's biological men

01:20:10.240 who are posing or dressing, trying to appear as women. They're so rabid. And it's, I think,

01:20:19.040 because they want, they insist that we participate in their delusion. They, they have insisted in every

01:20:25.520 corner that everyone go along. And we have forgotten, especially as women, I, that this is

01:20:31.740 a man trying to tell me who I need to allow in my bathroom, in my daughter's locker room. You know,

01:20:37.840 I mean, from, from the beginning of time, not to get totally feminist on you, but like women have had

01:20:43.860 men trying to force them to do things that are not in their best interest. They, they have faced

01:20:49.460 threats from men. They've also had amazing experiences with men. This is not a male hating show,

01:20:54.200 but the biggest danger that has been posed to women historically has been from men. And here

01:21:01.000 they are again. It's like a wolf in sheep's clothing. They may have achieved looking somewhat

01:21:06.660 like us. And then they demand that they who remain men, and in many cases are still dangerous,

01:21:13.560 be allowed access to our spaces. And because they've changed their look and their label,

01:21:18.720 we're now supposed to take it. We're now supposed to say right this way and nothing other than you're

01:21:24.900 welcome. Or we risk what being called a bigot, being called a nasty name, maybe potentially not

01:21:30.200 getting a college recommendation or a job recommendation. So what? Like it, the stakes are

01:21:35.760 very high, very high for women and their supporters, men too, to say, no, we're stopping this madness.

01:21:43.560 Yeah. I wish more women would speak up. I think women are, are intimidated to, to, to, to challenge

01:21:53.700 the orthodoxy. Stella? Well, yeah, well, I think an awful lot of women are speaking up and they're

01:22:00.380 being shouted down. I think an awful lot of women speak up and are, are maybe quickly cowed. I'm not

01:22:07.060 sure, but it's certainly in my experience. I know so many women who aren't happy and so many women who say,

01:22:12.680 I'm afraid to speak or I spoke and I wasn't popular or I spoke and I was judged and I, I had some

01:22:18.260 approbation and I'm not speaking up again. I do. I'm the same as you, Joe. Yeah. I wish more people

01:22:23.340 would speak up. I think people are starting to. It's been a shocking experience watching how few

01:22:29.580 people would stand up in the face of what was clearly a terrible medical scandal that's unfolding

01:22:38.320 on young, vulnerable children. But now I think people are starting to stand up. I do think

01:22:44.380 activism has kind of reached extraordinary proportions in the last 10 years. Maybe it's

01:22:50.580 social media driven. It certainly feels like a very febrile atmosphere that we're living in these days.

01:22:55.960 And it does feel that like, you know, a Twitter pile on or whatever, it can be so frightening

01:23:00.580 that in a lot of ways we're, we're kind of, we're just kind of, we're digital virgins getting used to

01:23:06.660 this kind of cruel world online. And so a lot of people keep their head down. I think they can't

01:23:13.020 anymore. That's how we got into this mess. You know, it's like I said, and I know people may think

01:23:18.300 it was harsh. Shame on those, those parents up in Canada for not going on the record with rebel news.

01:23:24.060 I applaud the one who alerted rebel news, but the others, if you, if you don't stand up,

01:23:30.420 you are part of the problem. And if you can't stand up for yourself, you have to stand up for

01:23:36.580 your daughter. What parent of a 13 year old would let a 50 year old man get in the pool and God forbid

01:23:45.600 the locker room with his or her daughter. I, and I know Canadians are much nicer as a rule than we are,

01:23:52.980 and they don't like confrontation as a rule, but you must have it, or you're going to get a whole

01:23:59.380 lot more of this. That man doesn't get to work out his delusion. And we'll talk about it.

01:24:04.860 Likely sexual fetish next to a bunch of young teen girls, 13, the youngest teen you can be.

01:24:12.540 It's not healthy. It's not, it's not safe for those girls. Right. Stand by Stella. Hold that thought

01:24:19.700 because I'm going to squeeze in a quick break and I'll come right back with Stella and Joe.

01:24:22.320 Unbelievable. Great discussion. Can we spend a minute on the pronouns? Because

01:24:29.980 the pronouns too are problematic. And what they're doing in the schools with this, just like quietly

01:24:36.080 affirm, change the pronouns, change the name and don't tell the parents. I came from New York city,

01:24:41.080 the private school system, and now the public are both on that same plan. Don't tell the parents if

01:24:46.700 the child doesn't want it, keep it entirely secret from them. And I find the pronouns very disturbing.

01:24:51.560 I've told my kids not to say them, not even to say their own pronouns. If asked, I don't want them

01:24:55.600 playing the gender game. Um, I really find it offensive. And I, I, I know you guys have some

01:25:01.960 thoughts on like, there are, you can opt out of the pronouns. It's these children should not be forced

01:25:08.440 to say the pronouns. Is that correct, Stella? Yeah. I think every body who's ever worked with children,

01:25:16.140 teachers included would know that we always bring the parents with us. You don't triangulate. You

01:25:22.200 don't alienate the parents by excluding them from decisions around the child. And there's been this

01:25:28.020 kind of new false concept, which is when your parent disagrees with you, you're in danger. And so it has

01:25:36.300 been since time immemorial for millennia, teenagers have disagreed with their parents and parents have

01:25:40.740 disagreed with their children, with their teenagers. It's no big deal. But these days, if a parent disagrees

01:25:46.400 around pronouns, it's been reframed as if it's something dangerous for the child, for the parent to

01:25:51.600 disagree with them. And, uh, these over-enthusiastic, overstepping, um, teachers are choosing to collude with

01:26:00.400 the child, change the pronouns. And the whole school might know about it, but apparently the parents can't.

01:26:06.700 It's, it's alienating the parents. It's excluding the parents. And we've worked a lot in Genspec with the

01:26:12.300 parents. They have had the most devastating experience of being left out when their child was

01:26:18.200 at their lowest, at their most miserable, being left out of the care of their child because they

01:26:23.780 didn't know. So maybe they didn't know for six months until they got the end of term report.

01:26:28.440 And the end of term reports is Charlie, not Charlotte. If then, if then in New York,

01:26:33.980 they, they keep it a secret from you the whole time. And that's the, that's the thing is like

01:26:37.480 you guys, I know have raised questions, Joe, about who are these teachers who think they have the

01:26:42.840 psychological training and background necessary to handle a child's social transition and what we

01:26:50.020 know comes after it. I think there are people who have come out of, um, uh, universities and

01:26:57.220 graduate schools that are indoctrinated with gender ideology and they, they're passionate

01:27:02.720 social justice warriors about this kind of ideology and they take it from the academy into the schools

01:27:08.900 and inflict it on their students. It's, it's really, it's really a scandal. You know, there was this law

01:27:14.640 it, Gavin Newsom ultimately, um, vetoed it, but the legislature in California passed a law

01:27:21.820 that would allow the States to remove the child from their parents. If the parents refused to affirm

01:27:27.460 their gender identity, that's how far this erosion of parental authority has gone. It's insane.

01:27:33.140 Like as Stella said, throughout human history, society has always backed up the parents as the

01:27:39.180 ultimate authority in the rearing of their children. No longer the case.

01:27:44.080 It's very dark. And that brings me to the, the detransitioning thing, because this too gets buried.

01:27:50.460 It gets buried by the news media for the most part, um, by the trans activist crowd. They don't

01:27:56.460 want to talk about it. Uh, and I know one of you guys was saying, I read, um, somewhere, I think it

01:28:02.560 was you Stella that in the sort of the Reddit detransitioning group, you know, a 10 years ago

01:28:08.440 used to have like a thousand and now it's got over 50,000. This is, it's growing. The detransitioner

01:28:16.460 group is growing and they're of course unhappy. And in some great cases they're suing, which I do

01:28:23.020 think is the way forward. Yeah, no. And the numbers are more shocking than that. I first started

01:28:29.020 following detrans Reddit in 2019 and there was less than a thousand members and now it's 2023 and

01:28:36.080 people can go online right now and look at detrans Reddit and there's about 50,000. So it's grown

01:28:40.800 from 1000 to 50,000 since 2019. They are extraordinary numbers. That's not saying that

01:28:46.800 every one of them, it's around, I think 70% are detransitioners and the rest are people like

01:28:51.680 myself who are interested. You only have to go on that Reddit page for 10, 20 minutes and you get it.

01:28:59.080 You realize these were people who were vulnerable at their lowest step and thought transition. There's

01:29:03.720 nothing more alluring in life to be told. You could be a different person with a different name and a

01:29:08.640 different body and people will think of you and they'll never be able to refer to your old self,

01:29:13.160 your old shameful, you know, humiliated self. Instead, you could be maybe like one of those

01:29:18.120 YouTube influencers. There's nothing more bewitching to tell somebody who's maybe a bit naive,

01:29:24.480 maybe a bit gullible, maybe a bit self-loathing. They're like, yes, sign me up. I'll be somebody

01:29:29.180 different and I'll have a cool name. It's going to be amazing. And so they sign up to this idea that

01:29:35.220 they can be somebody different. And then they end up the same person with a different body

01:29:39.480 that has often been extremely damaged by hormones, by surgery, by some really, really difficult

01:29:46.680 interventions that don't go well because the evidence base isn't good. And these are really

01:29:51.800 complicated interventions that... Oh my God. On the little pamphlet, they're not advertising

01:29:56.940 no sexual gratification, potentially no sexual climax, no children, no breastfeeding.

01:30:05.660 And if you decide to have these procedures like the phalloplasty where they try to construct a fake

01:30:10.380 penis, the odds of you being in for surgery after surgery and complication after complication are

01:30:15.880 astronomical. There are way more complications than there are surgeries. So that means each patient

01:30:22.480 who gets one of those surgeries is likely back multiple times. Of course, of course, because

01:30:28.780 you can't build a fake penis. It's not a thing. They're selling a bill of goods to these kids.

01:30:36.040 And yet it's on the cover of New York Magazine.

01:30:39.240 Was it?

01:30:39.760 Remember that issue? There was an article about the... On the cover, the trans man who had his fake

01:30:47.460 penis installed. And there's a whole long article he'd written. It's shocking. Shocking.

01:30:53.320 But the good news is that the detransitioners are coming back. They're suing the AAP. It's a very,

01:30:59.380 very bold, strong statement to sue the AAP, who brought in ridiculous guidelines in 2018.

01:31:05.760 And they are suing, effectively, clinicians who are affirmative. And these children, like,

01:31:12.360 you know, one of the detransitioners who's bringing in the lawsuit, she was 14. She was autistic. She'd

01:31:18.480 had sexual trauma. Her parents had split up. She had ADHD. She was a very vulnerable person. And now

01:31:26.960 she's 20, saying, you should have been the adults in the room. You should have given me guidance at my

01:31:32.780 lowest ebb. I needed adults. I needed people to look after me. And instead, they sold me a bill of

01:31:39.060 goods, like you said. Not people with an agenda. That's the thing about psychotherapy. You know,

01:31:45.020 I've gotten therapy for years. My guy, he doesn't have an agenda. His only agenda is helping me figure

01:31:50.420 out things for myself. He's not pushing his views on me or trying to guide me in a way that he thinks

01:31:57.320 is appropriate for his life or for society. You know, he helps me seek wellness. What they're doing,

01:32:04.820 these social justice warriors who cloud themselves under the cloak of therapy, you know, titles is

01:32:10.880 so manipulative. That's the lawsuits are entirely valid. I pray that they succeed because it's like

01:32:18.560 everything in America. No one listens until the lawyers get involved. And, you know, we criticize

01:32:22.980 the lawyers, but they listen. Once you get sued and your business is on the line, you will change.

01:32:28.120 And here's the thing about those lawsuits, Megan, is that for every one of those people who's brave

01:32:35.500 enough to come forward and to file a lawsuit, there are hundreds of kids who are too ashamed and

01:32:41.140 frightened to say anything. Because, you know, if you decide that you no longer believe in the whole

01:32:48.720 trans myth, that your former friends and allies will come after you and they will try and destroy you.

01:32:54.700 They'll attack you and humiliate you in social media. It's very expensive to file a lawsuit.

01:33:00.680 So I don't know. There's just so many kids who are just quiet and suffering.

01:33:05.520 In silence. Joe, may I ask how things landed with your daughter? She would be about 24 now?

01:33:13.120 She has reconnected with her mother. And given my position in this community, I'm persona non grata.

01:33:21.800 She wants nothing to do with me.

01:33:23.180 Right. So she transitioned to male and that's how she's choosing to live her life.

01:33:30.140 And, you know, with disastrous mental health consequences, I won't go into details,

01:33:34.520 but it hasn't worked out well. You know, it's just been, it's been, yeah. Thank you.

01:33:39.760 I'm so sorry. I applaud you for doing something to make something positive come out of it. You know,

01:33:45.460 you, if you don't feel like you can help her, you can help other kids. You know, the kids of

01:33:49.600 parents who are listening to this show right now who feel lost, like I'm sure you did when it was

01:33:54.220 going on. So God bless you for finding the courage to do it. You too, Stella. I mean, I'm, I'm sure

01:33:59.040 there's been blowback on both of you because for the reasons we discussed is a very vicious group of

01:34:04.640 people. But for the parents who are listening to this, what is the document or the website or the

01:34:09.900 thing that they can look up to begin, you know, learning all the things that we discussed today?

01:34:17.200 Well, if you go on to genspec.org, you'll see the conference next week. It can be live streamed.

01:34:22.080 There's also from next week, we'll have the gender framework available. And that would be something

01:34:27.800 that the parents can wave at their schools and say, here's a policy document that has an alternative

01:34:32.180 vision. And we also have a lovely service that Joe runs called Beyond Trans. And that offers

01:34:38.080 good, thoughtful therapy, you know, funding for people who've been hurt by medical transition.

01:34:43.940 And so there, there is a lot out there finally, after so many people being lost in the wilderness.

01:34:49.820 Yeah. Finally, again, so the audience, it's Jen, like gender, Jen,

01:34:55.100 spect, like the end of respect, genspect.org.org, not.com. Thank you both so much, Stella and Joe.

01:35:02.680 So nice to meet you. Appreciate all your good, hard work.

01:35:05.220 Thanks for having us on, Megan. Appreciate it.

01:35:09.560 Wow. You're not alone out there, parents. If you're dealing with this, you've got great people

01:35:14.040 like this who have been through it, who are trying to help pay attention and you can join in too. If

01:35:19.820 you think it's too late for you and your kid, think again, you know, if you get in there at the

01:35:23.120 right time, maybe, maybe you can run an intervention that will help your child before it is too late.

01:35:27.980 I want to say thanks to all of you for joining us this week. It's been busy, right? But it's so glad to

01:35:32.640 have you along with me. I feel like we've been through a lot these past few weeks and sending

01:35:36.540 my, all my love to all of you. And I feel yours right back. We'll talk on Monday.

01:35:44.680 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - October 27, 2023

New Video Shows Bowman Lied About Fire Alarm, and Rational Gender Care, with Jesse Kelly, Joe Burgo, and Stella O'Malley ｜ Ep. 657

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