The Megyn Kelly Show - Nine Books Every Dad Needs This Father's Day - ＂Dedicated with Doug Brunt＂ Special Episode

00:00:00.160 Dedicated is expanding. We are now filming our segments. We are doing some slick new video inside the SiriusXM studios.

00:00:07.860 So if you want to see me fixing the cocktails and having conversations with our awesome guests,

00:00:12.180 go to YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, or the SiriusXM app, and you can see us in studio.

00:00:18.780 Welcome to Dedicated with Doug Brunt.

00:00:21.740 You have just gained access to an exclusive insider's look at the lives and works of some of your favorite authors

00:00:28.260 and hear conversations with the world's greatest writers as they discuss their writing lifestyle,

00:00:33.880 creative process, latest work, and behind-the-scenes revelations.

00:00:40.920 Welcome to a special episode of Dedicated.

00:00:43.700 Today we're going to bring you not just a list of the best books,

00:00:46.400 we're going to bring you the best list of the best books for Father's Day.

00:00:50.560 And to do that, we have brought in three of the world's greatest writers who will each recommend three books.

00:00:56.840 So at the end of the show, you have nine books on your list.

00:01:00.900 We are joined by Jennifer Egan, Pulitzer Prize-winning author of A Visit from the Goon Squad,

00:01:06.340 Jay McInerney, author of the decade-defining novel Bright Lights, Big City,

00:01:10.640 and David Gran, who has carved out a permanent piece of real estate on the bestseller list

00:01:15.020 with his books The Wager and Killers of the Flower Moon.

00:01:18.620 Esteemed authors, welcome.

00:01:20.280 Thank you.

00:01:21.020 Thank you.

00:01:21.360 Thrilled to have you here.

00:01:22.280 We are going to be sipping champagne while we build our list of nine.

00:01:27.540 And Sirius XM is so happy to have you three in the building that I'm happy to tell you we'll be drinking Cristal.

00:01:32.400 Cristal.

00:01:33.140 Right.

00:01:33.760 Moving up in the world.

00:01:36.060 I'm going to open this without making too big a mess.

00:01:40.920 As your insurance wasn't shaken.

00:01:43.880 And I know this is sort of a Father's Day.

00:01:45.560 The timing of the release is kind of Father's Day, and books are kind of a stalwart.

00:01:50.280 But what are some other – Jay, you're sort of a watch collector.

00:01:52.400 That's not a bad –

00:01:53.040 You could saber it.

00:01:54.580 Oh, if I had to saber, that would really –

00:01:56.200 I think that might be the last show we do here.

00:01:59.660 Yeah.

00:02:01.820 I've seen so many people try and fail to do that that it might not be worth the effort.

00:02:07.560 I just saw a clip of that online where it just shattered the bottle.

00:02:10.640 Oh, man.

00:02:12.380 Terrible, terrible.

00:02:13.760 But, Jay, you're a watch collector, right?

00:02:15.720 That's a Father's Day instead of a gift.

00:02:17.160 That's a very nice watch, actually, Jay.

00:02:18.840 It's a little more expensive than a book.

00:02:20.280 I guess, unfortunately, it's an expensive habit.

00:02:25.340 How many watches do you have?

00:02:28.640 I'm about 20.

00:02:29.940 I recently traded in five or six.

00:02:35.340 Do you have special –

00:02:36.220 The trouble is, you know, there's only so many watches you can wear.

00:02:39.480 So I'm narrowing it down a bit.

00:02:42.540 Do you have special watch purveyors that you like to go to?

00:02:46.160 Yeah.

00:02:47.180 I have a book dealer.

00:02:49.040 That's cool.

00:02:50.420 Several watch dealers and several wine dealers.

00:02:53.620 Oh.

00:02:55.360 There we go.

00:02:57.680 All right.

00:02:58.520 We are in.

00:02:59.420 All right.

00:02:59.840 All right.

00:03:00.520 Cheers.

00:03:01.100 Great to see you all.

00:03:01.760 Cheers.

00:03:02.440 Thank you for having us.

00:03:04.520 Cheers.

00:03:05.220 Yeah.

00:03:06.620 Cheers.

00:03:07.140 Cheers.

00:03:11.600 Yum.

00:03:12.820 Mine turned out to be mostly foam.

00:03:14.100 I'm already going back for more.

00:03:16.780 So, Jenny, may we start with you?

00:03:19.060 Yes.

00:03:19.760 And your three books.

00:03:21.180 So I went with a crime theme, and I'm going to actually go, as it happens, in chronological order, starting with Agatha Christie.

00:03:31.300 Obviously, as we all know, Agatha Christie wrote many books, and this is, in my opinion, her best.

00:03:37.640 I haven't read all of them, but I'm fascinated by whodunits and sort of what makes a whodunit work.

00:03:44.920 And, in a way, it feels like there are many boxes that you need to check to have a successful whodunit.

00:03:51.680 One is, you know, obviously, is the killer a surprise.

00:03:56.140 But not just that, because ideally, before we get to that surprise, we fall through what I've sort of come to think of as a series of trap doors.

00:04:05.800 People that we think are the killer, and then, boom, we fall through that.

00:04:09.180 And then we think it's this one, and, boom, we fall through that.

00:04:11.640 So achieving that and then the final surprise is really important.

00:04:15.640 But, in a way, the even harder thing that I think is so rare for a whodunit to achieve is to have enough kind of psychological acuity that we actually want to reread it.

00:04:27.660 I mean, think about it.

00:04:28.480 How many times do you ever want to reread a whodunit?

00:04:31.440 Very seldom.

00:04:32.820 This one, I think, actually achieves all of those things.

00:04:36.280 I can't say too much about it, of course, because it's the nature of a whodunit that you have to be pretty mum in describing the plot.

00:04:43.840 But what I will say is that it's a Poirot mystery.

00:04:48.460 And he comes in as a sort of unexpected element.

00:04:53.440 He's a sort of next-door neighbor who gets involved in trying to solve the crime.

00:04:57.620 And it's told in the first person.

00:05:01.180 It has a wonderful kind of narrative voice.

00:05:04.200 It's one of her early books and the one that I've enjoyed the most of all of hers.

00:05:10.320 That sounds good.

00:05:10.640 I love that the complexity of the plot is now, these days, when half the shows I see on Netflix that are meant to be whodunit mysteries, I finish it.

00:05:17.680 And I'm like, why did I just waste it?

00:05:19.260 It feels like it was written in about a day.

00:05:21.300 The plot, the ending makes no sense.

00:05:22.940 They cannot land it.

00:05:23.800 So this sounds terrific.

00:05:24.800 Well, the thing is that I think that can happen really easily because to find someone who hasn't been a suspect, someone that the reader hasn't thought of, you know, how do you hit that amazing mix of surprise and inevitability?

00:05:38.520 And in a way, it's a challenge that I think one has with any work of fiction, but it is crystallized in the whodunit.

00:05:45.140 Because if it's too far afield, you have surprise, but it's nonsense.

00:05:50.700 So the inevitability is missing.

00:05:52.440 If you have too much inevitability, it's exactly who the reader thought was the killer.

00:05:57.120 So very hard to pull it off.

00:05:58.860 Is this one of the ones where she uses the setting as kind of a device, you know, like the 10 little Indians are on an island or murder on the Orient Express, they're all on a train.

00:06:06.740 She often puts them in a place where they are sort of trapped and it's all happening.

00:06:10.200 It is in a stately home, but they are not entirely trapped.

00:06:13.560 And I think that's one reason I really like it, because I find those those kind of entrapment settings to be a little too much like door A, door B or door C.

00:06:25.020 This is in a community.

00:06:26.880 And I think maybe actually I hadn't thought of it.

00:06:28.540 That I think is why I like it better than a lot of those famous ones, which, of course, works so well for a movie because you've got everyone in one place.

00:06:36.640 But to me, that insularity on the page often results in a kind of almost a mathematical kind of dryness.

00:06:45.080 And this has more color to it and a lot of humor as well.

00:06:51.540 So anyway, so that is I highly recommend.

00:06:55.920 Number two is Chester Himes, A Rage in Harlem.

00:07:01.060 So wonderful crime writer.

00:07:03.300 He actually did write whodunits, but this is not a whodunit.

00:07:08.080 But his his he has a his novels all take place in Harlem.

00:07:12.620 He was writing in the 40s and the 50s.

00:07:14.200 He was a very successful writer.

00:07:16.560 And in fact, he had been imprisoned for many years for a crime that he did commit.

00:07:23.520 But he began writing in prison and became very successful after he got out.

00:07:27.960 He has a pair of detective police officers who are African-American and working in Harlem.

00:07:35.460 Their position is very tricky because they are policing their own community.

00:07:39.400 What I love about A Rage in Harlem, I will also say for audio book lovers,

00:07:43.980 Samuel Jackson is the narrator of the audio book of this, and he is dynamite.

00:07:49.760 Um, this is actually a comic crime novel that also has elements of horror.

00:07:56.480 It's it's it's quite grotesque in moments, sort of hilariously grotesque.

00:08:00.800 And what I really love about it is that the grotesqueness is very unexpected, as is the comedy.

00:08:07.580 So what Himes does is he sort of sets up a series of expectations, which are that this is going to be a kind of lighthearted book.

00:08:18.680 It feels like it's it's sort of silly in a way because it involves a guy who is a very gullible protagonist who is immediately fleeced of money by people who tell him that they can turn $10 bills into $100 bills by putting them into an oven and sort of turning it on.

00:08:39.780 It's called the blow.

00:08:40.840 And the idea and unfortunately, of course, what what ends up happening is that he loses all of his $10 bills and he works in a funeral parlor.

00:08:51.480 So he in in his wild efforts to try to reclaim this money, he ends up stealing from his boss and sort of getting deeper.

00:09:00.100 He gambles and loses.

00:09:01.800 He gets deeper and deeper and deeper into trouble.

00:09:04.100 And it feels as though, you know, nothing can really go wrong here because he's such a lovable figure.

00:09:11.800 But he also has an identical twin brother who is a heroin addict who dresses up as a nun and raises money on the street for the Sisters of Mercy in drag.

00:09:23.580 And so this he enlists his brother to help him and wildness ensues.

00:09:29.880 It is I mean, it's a very short novel and it is a wonderful kind of wild ride.

00:09:34.760 The last thing I'll say about it and the really unexpected part of it is that in this kind of comic, crazy world, what ultimately emerges very unexpectedly is some pretty searing social commentary about life in Harlem.

00:09:52.060 And so it's a kind of stealth, a stealth manifesto almost, which is which never appears as such, but leaves us with a really strong impression of racial injustice.

00:10:06.700 But it's delivered with sheer delight.

00:10:09.840 That's a lot to do in one book.

00:10:13.020 Number three, published in 1981, A Flag for Sunrise by Robert Stone, one of my favorite writers.

00:10:20.640 I feel like he has been a bit eclipsed.

00:10:23.700 He died in 2015 and I don't hear his books talked about very much.

00:10:29.080 And I would love to have that change.

00:10:31.660 I think he really was a wonderful writer.

00:10:34.100 This is also a crime novel of sorts, but Stone has a kind of approach that he uses in many of his books,

00:10:42.540 which is that he follows several different points of view as various individuals converge in a kind of climactic, violent situation.

00:10:52.260 And the setting for this is a fictional Latin American country on the verge of revolution.

00:10:58.980 And we have gun runners approaching there with ammunition hidden in a shrimp boat.

00:11:06.040 We've got a kind of psychotic Coast Guard service member who has resigned, killed his dogs and left his child.

00:11:17.420 And we don't know what is going on with him.

00:11:19.600 We've got a nun who is part of the revolutionary process and a sort of anthropologist who finds himself in the middle of all this.

00:11:30.560 It feels, you know, it feels of its moment in the best way.

00:11:35.120 So published in 81, what we really feel is the presence of the Vietnam War still in a way that we don't really feel the weight of that today in the same way.

00:11:44.500 It certainly comes across as raising questions about American interventions.

00:11:52.840 But finally, as with any really good book, it's just exciting and full of, I think, what I think of as Stone's signature element are just these wonderful set pieces.

00:12:06.300 There's a there's a moment where the anthropologist dives under a coral reef and sort of feels the presence of some tremendous darkness, some sort of shadow of of of of danger or and we don't know if it's sort of natural or supernatural or just psychological.

00:12:26.320 And the the scene of the the gun runners who end up employing the kind of psychopathic ex Coast Guard guy, very who and who ends up being very attracted to the wife of the couple and the gun runners.

00:12:42.480 You can imagine exciting stuff.

00:12:45.480 Really recommend it.

00:12:46.700 Do you remember when you first read these or when these were first introduced to you somehow?

00:12:51.440 A Flag for Sunrise, I think I read not long after it came out.

00:12:54.520 I think I read it. I was you know, I sort of arrived in New York in in 87, I think already a stone fan.

00:13:01.360 So I read that sort of contemporaneously with its publication.

00:13:07.160 Chester Himes, I read in the last few years because I've gotten very interested in crime fiction.

00:13:11.920 And I and I actually taught it a year ago at the University of Pennsylvania in a literature course I was teaching.

00:13:18.940 And that was a lot of fun. Actually, it was a really it was a interesting book to teach in that to teach in a literature course,

00:13:26.080 but also a way to think about genre and the ways what genre, how it works, how it sort of sets up certain things that we know will happen.

00:13:35.360 And then in a way, the success of a genre novel, it lies in how how in what ways it can kind of surprise us despite those rules.

00:13:46.120 And then Aykroyd, I think I read that actually also in the last like five years.

00:13:51.040 I had read many Agatha Christie's and this was one I hadn't read and I just loved it.

00:13:56.020 Well, these are terrific. Thank you. By the way, as your lists were coming in, I realized I am 0 for 9 on all these books.

00:14:02.460 I haven't read anything. I'm excited for my list has gotten massive now.

00:14:05.600 Well, I agree about Robert Stone. He should be more read.

00:14:09.400 He was actually a pretty good friend of mine. And I first got hooked on Dog Soldiers.

00:14:15.220 Yeah, that was a really good book.

00:14:16.900 I think the prior novel.

00:14:19.140 Yeah. And his first was The Hall of Mirrors.

00:14:21.480 His books are, I mean, they're like on the verge of being really literary thrillers, but they're not they're not whodunits.

00:14:27.920 They're no, they're just suspenseful and violent and scary.

00:14:31.940 Yeah. Any book to film on on these?

00:14:36.180 I don't know, actually. I think they I wouldn't be.

00:14:39.140 I think Dog Soldiers is made to a film.

00:14:41.080 Dog Soldiers has been. I don't know about A Flag for Sunrise.

00:14:44.020 I wouldn't be surprised if all of them have been, but obviously not successfully enough that we know about it.

00:14:51.360 But I think I think they may all have made it to the screen in one form or another.

00:14:55.160 I know a number of Himes novels, I think, did.

00:14:58.800 Great.

00:15:00.380 Jay McInerney.

00:15:01.300 Well, I'm going to start with my crime thriller because I actually am not really a reader of crime fiction and suspense novels.

00:15:12.320 But I think for Christmas, my friend Morgan Entrican, who's the publisher of Grove Atlantic, gave me this Len Dayton novel called Berlin Game.

00:15:25.720 And of course, I'd heard of Len Dayton. He's one of the most successful novelists of all time.

00:15:31.580 But I never read one. And I just found myself somewhere where that was the book I had in my hand.

00:15:38.060 And once I started it, I couldn't put it down, as we often say, of very suspenseful books.

00:15:43.200 But I was also I was so impressed with the writing because the one writer whose suspense writing I have read is John Le Carre.

00:15:51.040 And and this this struck me as every bit as good as Le Carre's better work.

00:15:58.860 And I mean, the the the granularity of the of the of the of the of the observation and the writing.

00:16:06.480 I mean, the plot is very compelling.

00:16:11.440 But but the way that scenes are set, characters are drawn, even the dialogue, it was so impressive to a novelist such as myself.

00:16:24.000 And I, I couldn't, you know, I just I couldn't turn away.

00:16:30.420 And it's it's it's it's a very intricate plot, which involves, of course, a as a spy.

00:16:38.440 And he's somewhat in the mold of of fictional spies and that he's a little cynical.

00:16:44.460 You know, he's a little down at the heels.

00:16:46.220 His career is kind of on the skids, whereas his wife is on the way up in the same agency.

00:16:54.000 And basically, he is charged as a sort of last hurrah.

00:16:58.440 He's charged with finding a mole in in the agency.

00:17:04.780 And and and it is indeed surprising.

00:17:09.980 I think this answers all of your your requirements.

00:17:13.760 So it's a it's not it, meaning who's the but yeah, but it in the end, you say, oh, yeah, of course.

00:17:22.000 But you don't say that in the beginning as to as to who the mole is.

00:17:25.160 And it's really and it's also, you know, it's also set in that that I don't I don't want to say romantic, but that kind of storied period of Berlin or espionage in Berlin, where all the major powers were like early Cold War, early Cold War, where all the major powers are sort of fighting for turf and and spying on each other.

00:17:46.800 And really, really, really compelling.

00:17:49.880 The good news is if you if you really like Berlin Game, there's about thirty four others, including two more in this in this trilogy.

00:18:00.160 So, yeah, I just I was really blown away.

00:18:03.320 And as I as I say, I'm I feel like now I'm going to start reading more of these types of books, but particularly with Len Dayton.

00:18:11.040 Let's see, my next novel is A Fan's Notes by Frederick Exley, quite a different quite a different genre, if indeed it's any genre at all.

00:18:24.480 It's it's very curious.

00:18:25.440 The author himself, Frederick Exley, couldn't decide whether it was a memoir or a novel.

00:18:29.920 He he went back and forth in describing it.

00:18:33.400 But but it is clearly highly autobiographical.

00:18:36.680 And it was published in 68, at which point he was 40 years old.

00:18:43.440 And it's very it's very interesting.

00:18:46.160 It is a successful novel about a man realizing that he will never be a success, that he will never finish his novel and that he's a he's a miserable failure as a human being.

00:18:58.680 And the title refers to the fact that one of his few passions is Frank Gifford in the New York Giants.

00:19:07.840 And every weekend he goes, he drives an hour from his the town where he lives and teaches high school in order to drink all day at a bar and and watch the Giants play.

00:19:23.320 He actually just quite coincidentally, he went to USC at the same time that Frank Gifford was a student there and an athlete and he becomes obsessed with Gifford.

00:19:35.080 His own father was a student athlete in Watertown, New York, and it was it was locally famous.

00:19:43.080 He was a big man around town and actually was obsessed with the idea of becoming famous, of somehow becoming like his father, Frank Gifford.

00:19:54.440 And yet he he sabotages himself at every turn.

00:19:59.180 You know, for one thing, he's he's a stone cold alcoholic and you'd think that would be very depressing.

00:20:04.760 And at times, I suppose it is.

00:20:06.400 He also spends a fair amount of time in mental institutions.

00:20:09.320 But but did you ever get to meet this guy?

00:20:11.820 I know I never did.

00:20:13.580 Unfortunately, I corresponded briefly with him before.

00:20:16.220 I think he died.

00:20:19.140 I think he died in the early 80s.

00:20:20.920 But but he was.

00:20:23.160 But I am not the only person who was just blown away by that by the honesty of the book.

00:20:28.420 But also, he's a real stylist.

00:20:31.480 But it has shades of a million little pieces.

00:20:34.180 You know, you know, that book that came out and it was about rehab and all those things.

00:20:37.600 And I think he tried to sell it as a novel and that didn't work.

00:20:39.840 Then he sold it as a as a memoir and it did work.

00:20:42.840 And then there was the whole Oprah exposure of which is which.

00:20:46.300 Yeah.

00:20:46.620 So did he did he sell it as a novel, though?

00:20:49.400 Well, he was quite clear about the fact that it was a highly autobiographical document.

00:20:54.820 And OK, I think eventually it was published as a novel.

00:20:58.380 But but it's clearly it's clearly very documentary.

00:21:04.160 Yeah.

00:21:04.460 And there's something strangely exhilarating about watching this guy trip over his own feet and sabotage himself at every turn.

00:21:11.960 And I suppose in part because it's it's so beautifully written.

00:21:15.600 And I know, you know, I've sort of bonded with quite a few people over this book, including the man who became my editor, Gary Fiske, John.

00:21:25.740 It's it's it's it's really extremely compelling.

00:21:30.100 My last book is Light Years by James Salter and James, James Salter is, I think, one of the great, great stylists of of certainly my lifetime.

00:21:47.220 But and he's a great novelist.

00:21:49.980 So he but he was always called a writer's writer and it used to drive him crazy.

00:21:53.880 You know, he's meaning I don't sell.

00:21:56.120 Well, yeah, I mean, he said, how about I have your sales and you we can call you a writer's writer.

00:22:01.680 So he was he was in the Air Force.

00:22:06.080 He was a ski racer.

00:22:07.640 He was a very interesting character.

00:22:10.160 His books are highly literary.

00:22:12.440 And his gifts as a as a stylist are just incredible.

00:22:18.660 I know nobody writes sentences like James Salter.

00:22:21.200 I'm almost all the writers that I know revere him.

00:22:25.900 And almost everybody else hasn't read him.

00:22:31.140 I could have picked a number of of his books.

00:22:36.180 But, for instance, a sport in a pastime, which is one of the most erotic books literary.

00:22:42.440 books I've ever read, set in France in the fifties.

00:22:46.400 Light Years is also set in the fifties.

00:22:48.320 And I just love that although the couple in the book, Nedra and Viri, very strange names,

00:22:57.840 but they live on the Hudson and he kind of commutes in and out of New York as an architect.

00:23:03.420 The book presents this idyllic marriage, at least from the outside.

00:23:09.300 And they have dinner parties.

00:23:12.800 They have these two lovely kids for whom they make toys and art and so on.

00:23:18.300 And eventually, it turns out they're both having affairs.

00:23:23.640 And it's an extraordinary portrait of a marriage, but the marriage does fall apart in the end

00:23:31.320 of the book.

00:23:32.320 And the funny thing is, the first time I read it, I didn't remember that they got divorced

00:23:36.200 because the portrait of the marriage was so good.

00:23:39.200 But I think they present such a beautiful picture from the outside that the thought occurs to

00:23:46.040 one that, you know, they couldn't possibly be experiencing it that way on the inside.

00:23:52.260 And is it okay if I just read a short passage?

00:23:55.100 Yeah, please.

00:23:56.100 I had to put this on my phone because I forgot the book today.

00:23:58.520 This is from the Psalter book.

00:23:59.720 But this is from Light Years.

00:24:01.480 And this is about Nedra, the wife.

00:24:04.600 And this will give you a sense of the rhythms of his writing.

00:24:10.480 During the days, she was utterly at peace.

00:24:13.460 Her life was like a single well-spent hour.

00:24:17.020 Its secret was its lack of remorse, of self-pity.

00:24:21.400 She felt herself purified.

00:24:23.580 The days were cut from a quarry that would never be emptied.

00:24:28.460 Into it came books, errands, the seashore, occasional pieces of mail.

00:24:35.100 She read them slowly and carefully, sitting in the sunshine, as if they were newspapers from

00:24:40.700 abroad.

00:24:41.700 I mean, I just find that amazing.

00:24:47.180 I could almost pick any passage and it would have the same strange rhythms.

00:24:52.240 But also his sense of light, of the movement of air in a room, he writes about light like

00:25:02.360 nobody I know.

00:25:03.360 When did Psalter pass away?

00:25:05.360 He died, I believe, in 2016.

00:25:08.540 He lived a long life, didn't he?

00:25:11.920 He lived a very long and productive life.

00:25:14.100 He also wrote a couple of cookbooks.

00:25:16.620 Which I should admit, Len Dayton did too.

00:25:18.540 I was very fortunate that when I was writing a book you mentioned earlier, Brightness Falls,

00:25:33.140 he used to go to Aspen in the winter to ski.

00:25:36.600 So he lent me his house in the Hamptons to work in the winter.

00:25:41.160 And it's funny because Brightness Falls was actually influenced by light years, certainly.

00:25:47.220 And there I was in the place where it might have been created.

00:25:51.340 Well, it's a nice tribute to him, nine years after his death, to have his fiction read here.

00:25:58.220 And you three have written these iconic books.

00:26:00.220 Decades from now, people are going to be reading you still.

00:26:02.160 You've become immortal through your work.

00:26:04.160 Ah, if only, by the way, I would mention The Wager, but I was concentrating on novels.

00:26:12.920 A book I admire immensely and read fairly recently.

00:26:15.720 Oh, thank you.

00:26:16.720 And there was a wonderful profile of Psalter and The New Yorker about, what was that, about

00:26:21.260 five years ago by Nick Pomegranate?

00:26:22.840 Ah, that's right.

00:26:23.840 And to be honest, that is what prompted, I had never read Psalter, The Writer's Writer,

00:26:27.980 and went and devoured him as a result of that.

00:26:31.180 Oh, excellent.

00:26:32.180 And also enraptured by the prose.

00:26:35.920 But I could never, I would never dare try to imitate it.

00:26:38.500 I mean, it's very hard to imitate.

00:26:41.940 I mean, you know, his sentences don't follow one another the way that other, that most people's

00:26:49.360 sentences do.

00:26:50.360 I mean, most of us are like, first A, then B, then C. And Psalter is very sinuous and kind

00:26:57.360 of oblique in his movements.

00:27:00.060 But I, like Robert Stone, I hope that he gets, that he continues to be read, because

00:27:07.100 It's funny how some do and some don't.

00:27:09.820 He was always a little bitter in his lifetime.

00:27:10.820 Oh, I didn't know that.

00:27:11.820 Was he a big seller in his lifetime?

00:27:12.820 No.

00:27:13.820 No.

00:27:14.820 Very small.

00:27:15.820 No.

00:27:16.820 A cult writer.

00:27:18.000 Yeah, he was a cult writer.

00:27:19.140 And all the right people liked him.

00:27:22.220 But not enough of them.

00:27:26.000 I want to just add a couple things about A Fan's Notes, which I also really love.

00:27:30.240 Um, one is that, uh, it's hilarious.

00:27:34.200 It's a very funny book.

00:27:36.280 And I remember vividly a scene of the main character on a job interview, which is just,

00:27:42.400 I mean, you said, took hangover on feet.

00:27:44.740 I mean, you're just, you're sort of dying.

00:27:46.680 And yet it's just, it's laugh out loud funny.

00:27:49.340 And then the other thing that I find really poignant is that after the book came out,

00:27:53.660 he and Frank Gifford became friends.

00:27:56.460 So that, that, that kind of, that, the idolization resulted in a friendship between two guys who

00:28:03.680 were the same age, because as you say, they went to school together.

00:28:06.180 I find that very sweet.

00:28:08.060 Yeah.

00:28:08.620 He, he probably, he went on to publish two more books that were not as critically fiction.

00:28:13.920 Um, again, kind of fiction memoir.

00:28:17.300 And they, they were, they were not, no, they were not as good as this, but there, you know,

00:28:23.800 a lot of people have one book in them and he, he had this one book and it was better than

00:28:29.120 most books are talented writer.

00:28:32.900 Before we go to David, Jenny, you were, uh, before we got rolling, you were talking about

00:28:37.020 a book recommendation you had made in the times.

00:28:39.700 Maybe you could share retail, maybe a little bit of that.

00:28:42.300 Yes.

00:28:42.580 Well, you know, the times has this feature that they do have like books relating to a certain

00:28:46.760 place.

00:28:47.320 And they did one about New York city and they asked me about a few different books,

00:28:51.820 but the, um, or a few different kind of categories of New York.

00:28:55.360 And one of them, um, was, uh, sort of the publishing world.

00:28:59.420 And I recommended Jay's book, Brightness Falls, which you just mentioned as an example of the,

00:29:05.620 a novel that I think best captures the publishing world as it, as it was when I first began to

00:29:11.380 publish in the, in the mid nineties.

00:29:13.340 Um, and there's actually a line, which I'm going to mangle if I try to quote it now, but

00:29:17.760 it's something like, there's a young guy who becomes, who writes a book and he becomes famous

00:29:23.540 kind of overnight.

00:29:24.260 And it says, um, everyone listens a little bit more closely to everything he says.

00:29:29.400 And he listens a little less close to what everyone else says.

00:29:33.300 And I just thought, Oh, I think that's it.

00:29:35.340 I love it.

00:29:36.760 It's so true. 0.84

00:29:38.520 We all know that guy.

00:29:41.220 David Graham.

00:29:42.300 All right.

00:29:42.580 Well, I'm going to cheat because in listening to this conversation, of course, I suddenly,

00:29:46.560 the brain started to start with other ideas for other books.

00:29:50.140 So forgive me, but I'll do it quickly.

00:29:52.220 But when he mentioned Lindy, and you know, there was a, it reminded me of Eric Ambler,

00:29:57.000 who I think is actually a great father's day book and somebody who has kind of been forgotten

00:30:03.700 over time, but wrote early spy novels and really kind of, and you were talking about

00:30:08.900 suspense and mystery.

00:30:10.580 And he, I think some consider him the person who kind of invented the suspense novel, but

00:30:14.780 he writes it credibly.

00:30:17.020 I agree.

00:30:17.660 And, and epitaph to a spy would be a great one to start with.

00:30:22.880 And I think he influenced Hitchcock a lot, this idea, and I'm speculating on that, but

00:30:28.200 he, it was always about this kind of ordinary, it's my favorite kind of mystery and spy novel,

00:30:33.480 which is the ordinary person who suddenly gets caught up in something larger than himself

00:30:39.160 and is trying to kind of make sense of this world.

00:30:41.400 So in any case, yeah, that's Hitchcock.

00:30:43.740 And that was Ambler.

00:30:44.820 So in any case, it made me think of that.

00:30:46.320 And, and I took my homework very serious.

00:30:48.780 So I said, okay, well, what is father's day book?

00:30:50.660 Now, of course, what is a father's day book?

00:30:53.360 Sometimes people say my books are father's dad's books.

00:30:56.400 I'm a dad, but I never think when I'm writing a book, this is a dad's book.

00:31:00.620 I just write a book that, and a story that's interesting.

00:31:03.340 So I think kind of any great story or, or, you know, can fit for any of these kind of holidays.

00:31:08.800 But, but I did try to project out on this kind of archetypal father.

00:31:14.660 I don't know if he really exists, but I tried to create one in my mind and pick in these books.

00:31:18.460 So I thought, well, father's day, they're always recommending like these president,

00:31:22.440 these big thick presidential biographies, right?

00:31:25.180 It's always, and, and I will confess that unless it's kind of written by Robert Caro or someone of that ilk,

00:31:30.960 and it has the psychological dimensions.

00:31:33.320 I don't actually want to read 20 volumes on Garfold or somebody,

00:31:38.800 but this kind of fits my version of a, of, of presidential,

00:31:43.220 getting, working in a presidential biography.

00:31:46.080 It's by Candace Millard.

00:31:47.060 It's the river of doubt because what it really is, is just a hell of a story.

00:31:51.160 And rather than being a soup to nuts bio of an individual,

00:31:54.360 it's just plopping down the president in the middle of a situation, in the middle of a story,

00:31:59.740 which is he's kind of smarting, Teddy Roosevelt is kind of smarting from a presidential race.

00:32:06.140 He does one of these, you know, he loves to kind of go off on these adventures.

00:32:11.780 And this one becomes more than he bargained for in mapping an Amazonian river known as the river of doubt

00:32:19.480 because it was not fully explored.

00:32:23.040 And, and so you kind of learn about Roosevelt,

00:32:26.060 but you learn about him in this kind of tight, more compulsive narrative.

00:32:31.600 And you get to see someone through action, which is you get to see how they are.

00:32:36.280 And of course the, there's another character that kind of emerges as the real kind of hero in the background,

00:32:42.960 which is a Colonel Rondon, who is a Brazilian colonel who kind of is really kind of leading the expedition.

00:32:51.140 And Roosevelt almost dies on the expedition.

00:32:54.000 And, and so it has, you know, again, I tried to take this archetype of this father out here,

00:33:00.220 this projection of what I thought,

00:33:01.600 but I tried to give it a version that I would like, which is to actually have a hell of a story

00:33:06.480 rather than he was born on this day and he died on this day.

00:33:10.180 So that's the river of doubt by Candace Moore.

00:33:12.800 She's also a great writer of nature.

00:33:16.900 And so the Amazon,

00:33:18.060 I've never read anything about her, but a friend of mine was just recommending,

00:33:20.640 she's written a few nonfiction and narrative nonfiction type books.

00:33:23.760 I think she's, she's really successful.

00:33:25.480 Yeah.

00:33:25.720 Huge and successful.

00:33:26.520 And, and the Amazon is actually, actually the third, actually the most awesome character in the book.

00:33:32.800 I mean, she just brings the, the nature and the jungle to light.

00:33:36.400 I read this when I was working on the lost city of Z.

00:33:38.600 So that's how, that's what kind of led me to that one.

00:33:42.120 And then because I read so much nonfiction for work and research,

00:33:47.680 I actually tend not to read it so much.

00:33:49.720 I tend to read more fiction.

00:33:51.300 I read these wonderful novels.

00:33:52.640 Um, and, um, this is a book called the North water by, uh, Ian McGuire.

00:33:58.660 Um, I don't even know how to describe you all probably describe it better than I would,

00:34:02.740 but, um, it is, it's a sea novel, um, on a whaling ship, uh, in the 19th century, uh,

00:34:09.860 that is completely doomed.

00:34:11.780 Um, and of course, working on the wager, something, you know,

00:34:14.820 about working on the wager.

00:34:16.660 I, I was, you know, read a lot of sea tales.

00:34:19.680 Um, but this one is kind of, it's, it's, it's very own, uh, thing.

00:34:25.200 Uh, I hate, I always don't like when one compares another novel to bring it to light,

00:34:30.460 but it is a little bit like Cormac McCarthy at sea.

00:34:33.600 Um, the sea becomes this kind of biblical landscape testing these human beings.

00:34:38.800 It is the utter rawness and savagery of human nature, dealing with themes of good and evil.

00:34:45.980 But I think, and I think, um, you all talked about this in, in, in your picks.

00:34:50.420 I, I think ultimately what makes a great novel succeed and rise above even its story is the

00:34:56.360 sentences and he can really write a sentence.

00:34:59.560 Um, so that would be the North water.

00:35:01.740 Um, and yeah, and, and, and, and, but this is a fairly, um, dark, hopeless, grim.

00:35:09.700 So perhaps my projection onto my archetypal father is probably a little dark like I am.

00:35:15.620 So I don't know.

00:35:16.660 Um, and then the third one was again, the mystery.

00:35:21.040 Um, it just, there's something kind of cozy about a mystery.

00:35:24.760 Um, I am a total, unlike you, I, I will read for my pleasure is like just style any,

00:35:30.640 I'm going to read some of these crime novels you had mentioned, but I just love reading

00:35:34.980 crime fiction.

00:35:36.160 Um, I love detective work.

00:35:38.040 I love spy novels.

00:35:39.560 Um, and I could have picked any one of them.

00:35:42.540 Um, uh, but I picked this one by Louise Penny.

00:35:45.760 Um, this is her newest one, the gray wolf, the plot.

00:35:48.540 And this one is a little bit more Baroque.

00:35:50.160 I actually, um, uh, I would almost recommend starting at the beginning.

00:35:54.360 Um, uh, cause she's done a series of these series.

00:35:59.300 Beginning of series.

00:35:59.660 Yeah.

00:35:59.980 The beginning of these series.

00:36:00.880 Cause I don't even know what number this is.

00:36:02.900 I was going to ask how you usually read books.

00:36:05.060 Yeah.

00:36:05.080 Yeah.

00:36:05.260 Yeah.

00:36:05.460 Yeah.

00:36:05.820 I don't cheat.

00:36:06.620 I don't cheat on my mysteries.

00:36:07.880 Um, but, um, the thing I like about, uh, they're set in Quebec.

00:36:14.420 There's always the same detective, uh, Gamache.

00:36:17.320 Um, and she's got this wonderful little village with these characters who kind of reoccur and

00:36:21.720 reappear in all her little novels.

00:36:24.140 Um, and, and they have a mystery, but you talked about a lot of the trap doors.

00:36:29.480 That make mysteries.

00:36:30.400 And then who is the villain and who is the suspect?

00:36:32.620 But I think the other element in, in certainly series of crime novels is who is the detective?

00:36:39.580 Who is that figure?

00:36:41.140 Who is piecing these things together?

00:36:42.960 Um, I grew up kind of reading, uh, uh, the Sherlock Holmes stories.

00:36:48.560 And then of course that was the kind of archetypal, um, uh, detective, but the superhuman rationalist

00:36:54.980 who is almost like a Superman of reason could see everything and looks at the, looks at the

00:37:00.120 dust on your pants and concludes exactly what your profession is and defines exactly how

00:37:05.480 you committed the murder by a glance.

00:37:07.020 Well, the rest of us like Watson are kind of bumbling about.

00:37:10.400 Um, but the reason I, I quite like these Louise Penny novels is Gamache.

00:37:14.940 Um, he's clearly smart.

00:37:17.240 He's very reasonable.

00:37:18.540 Um, he's methodical.

00:37:20.560 He's rational, but there's a decency and a wisdom, um, that kind of permeates his detection.

00:37:26.900 And, uh, there's just something I would just say living in the world in which we live these

00:37:32.140 days with so much tumult, so much chaos.

00:37:35.520 Um, and so there's a certain wisdom, um, and almost heart that kind of goes against the

00:37:42.480 kind of way is almost the anti homes in a way, um, that I find very comforting.

00:37:47.420 And I will say that I like to walk a lot and I listened to her novels.

00:37:52.400 I actually haven't read them.

00:37:53.380 I listened to them.

00:37:54.340 Does she have the same reader?

00:37:55.060 Well, I will say this was kind of tragic.

00:37:58.420 She had the, the, the first reader, uh, of several of her novels, I thought was one of

00:38:03.860 the best readers I'd ever heard and, and created Gamache in my mind.

00:38:08.640 Um, and then he passed away.

00:38:10.420 And so they've had other ones who are great readers too.

00:38:13.120 But for me, it was actually always really.

00:38:15.260 It's like a James Bond.

00:38:15.920 It's like, I'm a Sean Connery guy.

00:38:17.340 Exactly.

00:38:17.820 You just didn't work.

00:38:19.120 And so, um, that was always really hard, but I really liked, uh, to listen to these, to

00:38:23.360 listen to Gamache as I walk.

00:38:25.060 Isn't there another more American archetype besides Holmes?

00:38:28.840 I mean, I'm just starting to think about suspense novels, but, but there's this sort of Raymond

00:38:32.940 Chandler.

00:38:33.660 Oh, yes.

00:38:34.280 And Dashiell Hammett archetype of the cynical kind of down at the heels, tough guy, right?

00:38:40.120 Yeah.

00:38:40.260 The anti-hero.

00:38:41.140 The anti-hero hero.

00:38:42.420 Yeah.

00:38:42.620 The person who is, yes.

00:38:44.900 Well, Lee Child says he was writing Reacher as the American James Bond.

00:38:48.500 That's what he was trying to go for.

00:38:50.980 And one thing I would say about the, those Americans, um, you know, Chandler, for example,

00:38:57.400 is that.

00:38:58.280 Well, although he's British, but.

00:39:00.520 Oh, interesting.

00:39:01.500 Yeah.

00:39:01.680 No, he moved to LA.

00:39:03.700 Yeah.

00:39:04.100 It's funny.

00:39:04.620 I, I completely forgot that.

00:39:06.660 Yeah.

00:39:07.120 That's so interesting.

00:39:08.220 But in a way it makes sense because he, I mean, Marlo is like a man without a past or

00:39:12.540 a provenance.

00:39:13.380 I mean, he's a really, so they're very kind of alienated detectives.

00:39:17.260 But the interesting thing about all of those books to me is the stories really don't make

00:39:21.960 sense.

00:39:22.560 These are, these are books about the detective and the atmosphere.

00:39:26.220 A hundred percent.

00:39:26.880 I mean.

00:39:26.980 Which are things that, interestingly, Christy uses, her detectives are really interesting.

00:39:32.100 Very little atmosphere in her books.

00:39:33.960 Very little physical description of environment.

00:39:36.120 You know, um, William Faulkner, I think wrote the screenplay for The Big Sleep.

00:39:40.060 Yeah, no, he still doesn't know what it's about.

00:39:41.660 Nobody knows what it's about.

00:39:42.660 I've watched that movie.

00:39:43.480 Somebody said to him, what's it about? 0.97

00:39:44.700 He said, damned if I know. 0.97

00:39:45.760 Try The Maltese Falcon. 0.99

00:39:47.320 Forget it.

00:39:47.960 It's fantastic, but you don't know.

00:39:50.040 But it is, it is a little bit of approval.

00:39:51.960 You said if you can reread it, it's a virtue.

00:39:54.620 And in a weird way, if you love it so much and you don't really yet even fully understand

00:40:00.420 why someone did, it's proof of its brilliance.

00:40:03.240 That it's created some kind of artistic aesthetic.

00:40:06.880 Yeah, that's true.

00:40:07.780 It's so fun to hear you guys talk about the work of others because I've read all of your

00:40:12.260 work and to imagine you guys perusing the bookstore shelves and picking one off and taking it

00:40:17.780 home and reading it like everyone else, you know, that's, it's fun to imagine.

00:40:22.080 So in the spirit of that.

00:40:23.160 We are fans first.

00:40:24.840 Right.

00:40:25.260 Exactly.

00:40:25.720 You have to be.

00:40:26.180 I mean, the one common thread of everyone who's come on this show, all the great authors,

00:40:30.260 is they're all huge readers.

00:40:31.900 Everything else, it's a million different ways to do it.

00:40:34.440 You know, outline, don't outline, all those kinds of things.

00:40:37.000 But everyone's a huge reader.

00:40:38.880 So I'm going to top up the champagne and then give you, while I'm doing that, you have a

00:40:42.160 moment to think.

00:40:42.840 Everyone's going to pick two books.

00:40:44.980 So you have six to choose from there.

00:40:47.140 David, you have six to choose from here, Jay, to take home.

00:40:51.780 I'm 0 for 9, so I could take anything.

00:40:53.800 I'll go last.

00:40:55.440 Jenny, you go first.

00:40:56.580 Okay.

00:40:56.980 And we'll go down the line in that way as I top us up.

00:41:01.080 Okay.

00:41:02.180 Interesting.

00:41:02.820 Well.

00:41:03.260 Two books, yeah.

00:41:04.980 This is, I don't know, are we, I don't know if this is even part of the conversation,

00:41:08.340 but isn't the North Water kind of a whodunit also?

00:41:11.060 Am I misremembering that?

00:41:12.760 Well. 0.99

00:41:13.320 I mean, there's a sexual predator. 1.00

00:41:14.860 Yeah, there's a sexual predator. 1.00

00:41:16.080 It's basically a psychopath. 1.00

00:41:17.580 It's horrific.

00:41:17.940 The beginning actually I had to power through.

00:41:20.060 It's a little brutal.

00:41:20.860 Yeah, the beginning is quite brutal.

00:41:22.800 But I thought it, I thought it was, I remember it as kind of a whodunit.

00:41:25.820 Well, it has an element of intrigue and suspense.

00:41:28.740 I mean, it is a thriller.

00:41:30.020 There is no question it is completely suspensive because you don't know what is going to happen.

00:41:34.180 You know what is going to happen to the ship?

00:41:35.840 And then the final collision.

00:41:37.900 And everybody's kind of up to something.

00:41:40.200 Yeah.

00:41:40.420 Everybody's got a dark past.

00:41:41.780 Everybody's kind of up to something.

00:41:42.780 I think I always, I thought a lot about, well, I don't know if this is really part of this

00:41:47.100 conversation, but just for the hell of it, I thought a lot about sea, the sort of genre

00:41:52.480 of sea stories and the way that it kind of mirrors the noir, because in both cases you

00:41:57.840 have an existential threat that surrounds a little enclave of kind of human warmth.

00:42:04.360 And we're always wondering sort of which one is going to prevail.

00:42:07.540 So it's interesting when a book combines the two.

00:42:10.220 That's what's sort of interesting about like a sort of crime thriller set on a ship.

00:42:15.620 In a way, it's a combination of two genres.

00:42:17.900 Well, and also, you know, you think of the Christie almost like the lock room.

00:42:21.360 Well, the ship is like a lock room in a way, right?

00:42:23.740 I mean, so you have isolated environment.

00:42:26.000 There's kind of no way out.

00:42:27.360 Who is, who's going to do what?

00:42:29.940 And then, of course, those, that situation in, in, in, in, in the sea stories, you know,

00:42:36.040 it ultimately just completely tests and explodes their human nature.

00:42:40.400 You know, what, what will it reveal about each of them?

00:42:43.660 Yeah.

00:42:45.540 Have you heard it down to two?

00:42:46.900 You still have to pick.

00:42:48.360 Okay.

00:42:49.260 I'm going to pick two.

00:42:50.500 Well, I've, so I've read a number of these.

00:42:52.360 Right.

00:42:52.580 I'm going to pick, uh, well, I'm going to, I'm going to definitely pick the, the Roosevelt, 0.85

00:42:59.060 the Candace Millard, Roosevelt, Amazon.

00:43:02.200 That sounds great.

00:43:03.760 I'm going to do a handoff here.

00:43:05.320 Do I just, maybe we'll get, we'll, we'll do this after the show.

00:43:07.660 Maybe we can get the recommender to sign to the picker.

00:43:11.920 And so you can, you can sign someone else's book and, and then Jenny can take it home. 0.91

00:43:16.540 Definitely going to pick Berlin game, Len Dayton, because I love Eric Ambulon.

00:43:20.620 All right.

00:43:20.860 Can we rip it in half? 1.00

00:43:21.900 No, you die. 1.00

00:43:24.040 Jeez. 0.99

00:43:24.660 All right.

00:43:25.160 We're going to fight afterwards.

00:43:27.480 There could be a murder mystery in here.

00:43:29.800 I want this.

00:43:31.640 Yep.

00:43:32.380 It's two, right?

00:43:33.480 Those are my two.

00:43:34.200 All right.

00:43:34.660 Those are my two.

00:43:35.760 All right.

00:43:36.760 Right.

00:43:37.560 All right.

00:43:37.920 Jay, you're up.

00:43:39.460 I'm going to do the Chester Himes and Louise Petty.

00:43:45.240 This was a very unfair order.

00:43:47.020 I wanted the Chester Himes.

00:43:48.540 My two were just taken from me.

00:43:50.880 All right.

00:43:51.240 Well, you'll be getting an Amazon package this week.

00:43:55.480 Or maybe an independent bookstore package.

00:43:57.160 Oh, yeah.

00:43:58.000 Exactly.

00:43:58.520 All right.

00:43:58.840 But I'm very happy.

00:43:59.560 I want to read the Robert Stone because I have not read that one.

00:44:02.140 And I love Robert Stone.

00:44:04.020 And I haven't read him in years.

00:44:05.240 So I'm looking forward to that.

00:44:06.620 And I want to reread.

00:44:10.620 And I don't have it anymore.

00:44:11.780 I want to reread Psalter.

00:44:13.260 I want to hear you read those sentences.

00:44:15.660 I want to hear those sentences again.

00:44:17.400 Here we go.

00:44:18.320 All right.

00:44:18.920 We got some books.

00:44:19.560 I think I will take Agatha Christie because I haven't read this one.

00:44:22.180 And then, you know, I had my eye on that Candace Millar one. 1.00

00:44:29.100 But, again, going last is not an advantage.

00:44:32.700 Yeah, really.

00:44:33.200 Not as much fun.

00:44:33.800 So I think I'll take.

00:44:34.700 Did you say we were going to take Agatha Christie?

00:44:38.880 Van's Note.

00:44:40.900 This sounds interesting to me.

00:44:42.320 It's really fun.

00:44:43.380 It really is, yeah.

00:44:44.180 And I've gotten to know Kathy Lee a little bit.

00:44:46.440 So this.

00:44:47.400 Does Frank Gifford, is he discussed in here at length?

00:44:49.680 Oh, God, yeah.

00:44:50.860 That's not interesting.

00:44:52.560 I mean, this guy's obsessed.

00:44:55.160 Yeah, I didn't take the Agatha Christie because I think my wife is the only person who's read

00:44:59.220 all of them and probably has them all at home.

00:45:01.880 Actually, my mother.

00:45:02.760 Let's see what she thinks about it.

00:45:05.360 Well, this was terrific.

00:45:06.680 Any last thoughts on Father's Day before we sign off?

00:45:09.440 Happy Father's Day.

00:45:10.580 I hope my kids remember this year.

00:45:14.180 Kids, I love a book.

00:45:17.520 Well, cheers.

00:45:18.260 Thanks so much.

00:45:18.940 Happy Father's Day.

00:45:19.780 Cheers.

00:45:20.100 Thank you.

00:45:20.740 Great to see you all.

00:45:21.620 Thanks for having us.

00:45:23.540 Cheers.

00:45:24.080 Thank you.

00:45:25.820 If you have been enjoying the audio of Dedicated, now we have more for you.

00:45:30.860 We are now videoing our episodes of Dedicated.

00:45:34.620 So go to YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Rumble, and the SiriusXM app, and you can see

00:45:40.200 a video of our episodes of Dedicated with our awesome guests.

00:45:43.320 Thank you.

00:45:43.720 Thank you.

00:45:43.780 Thanks, guys.

00:45:59.500 Bye.

00:46:00.440 Bye.

00:46:00.500 Bye.

00:46:00.620 Bye.

00:46:00.700 Bye.

00:46:01.300 Bye.

00:46:01.420 Bye.

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00:46:03.140 Bye.

00:46:03.660 Bye.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - June 13, 2025

Nine Books Every Dad Needs This Father's Day - ＂Dedicated with Doug Brunt＂ Special Episode

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