The Megyn Kelly Show - Oprah's Meghan and Harry Bombshell, with Dan Wootton, Plus Bari Weiss on Her ＂New ACLU＂｜ Ep. 73

00:00:00.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal

00:00:02.160 on a wool coat from Winners,

00:00:03.760 I started wondering,

00:00:05.440 is every fabulous item I see from Winners?

00:00:08.560 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans. 1.00

00:00:10.900 Are those from Winners?

00:00:12.780 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings?

00:00:15.260 Did she pay full price?

00:00:16.600 Or that leather tote?

00:00:17.620 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:00:18.840 Or those knee-high boots?

00:00:20.280 That dress?

00:00:21.060 That jacket?

00:00:21.740 Those shoes?

00:00:22.760 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:00:25.720 Stop wondering.

00:00:26.980 Start winning.

00:00:27.920 Winners.

00:00:28.500 Find fabulous for less.

00:00:30.620 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.520 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:41.460 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:43.080 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:44.520 So we are going to deconstruct the interview

00:00:49.520 with Megyn and Harry last night,

00:00:50.940 and we're going to bring you a brand new initiative

00:00:53.460 that's underway here in the United States

00:00:55.860 to fight back against cancel culture.

00:00:58.120 Those are our two topics today.

00:01:00.000 I know you may say I don't care about the royals.

00:01:02.580 Yes, you do.

00:01:03.460 Don't you want to know what happened?

00:01:04.720 Here's why I care.

00:01:05.860 Because these two are the ultimate examples of victimization, right?

00:01:09.980 The victimization culture.

00:01:11.780 You can be a prince.

00:01:12.620 You can be the prince of England

00:01:14.440 and still find nothing but victimization in your life,

00:01:18.080 which is baloney.

00:01:19.160 But these two are on full display last night about how hard they have it.

00:01:23.120 Forget all of you who've lost your jobs thanks to the COVID shutdown.

00:01:27.060 Forget those people who are suffering from loss of life in their family thanks to COVID.

00:01:30.960 The real victims this past year have been Meghan and Harry because she was lonely in the palace.

00:01:36.920 She was lonely, and the press wrote mean things about her that made her very, very upset.

00:01:41.840 As she gets into mental health, and that's upsetting.

00:01:44.900 I understand what she alleged about what the royal family says about her baby,

00:01:48.560 what the royal family drove her to feel emotionally.

00:01:52.240 That's dark.

00:01:53.340 That's not good.

00:01:54.920 And the royal family is going to have to respond to that.

00:01:57.000 But how she got there is a mystery to me.

00:01:59.560 It is a mystery.

00:02:01.260 She had it all and continues to have it all.

00:02:04.100 But she wants you to understand that she's the real victim.

00:02:06.720 She really is the real victim.

00:02:07.880 And by the way, she says pretty explicitly she has no regrets.

00:02:10.920 She did nothing wrong other than trust these guys.

00:02:13.520 That's what she told Oprah.

00:02:14.760 The only thing she regrets is putting her trust in the royal family that they would, quote, protect her.

00:02:19.160 Okay, so we're going to get into it because we're going to have this great guy.

00:02:21.920 His name is Dan Wooten.

00:02:23.100 He's of GB News, Great Britain News, and DailyMail.com journalist.

00:02:27.500 And he's fired up about this.

00:02:29.580 You're going to hear from him.

00:02:30.600 And then Barry Weiss is back with us on that anti-woke, anti-critical race theory group called FAIR

00:02:37.280 that we want to get you up to speed on in just one second.

00:02:40.280 That's right after this.

00:02:45.360 Dan Wooten, how are you?

00:02:46.960 Hey, Megan.

00:02:47.640 I'm great, thank you.

00:02:49.160 I am really looking forward to this conversation.

00:02:51.700 I know a lot of people don't care about the royals, but I think we all care about human behavior.

00:02:56.400 And to me, what we saw last night is the ultimate example of what we're seeing in both of our countries coast to coast already,

00:03:07.060 which is this leaning into one's perceived victimization.

00:03:12.300 They are the ultimate example of this, Dan.

00:03:15.060 You can marry a prince.

00:03:17.840 You can move into a castle.

00:03:19.800 You can wear a tiara at your wedding and be adorned in $5,000 outfits and diamonds, and you still play the victim.

00:03:30.400 You still get to play the victim.

00:03:32.360 Even Harry, who's going to pay for my security?

00:03:35.320 Harry, how about you, Harry?

00:03:38.100 How about you with the $16 million you inherited from your mother?

00:03:42.860 You're going to have to pay for it yourself like real people now. 1.00

00:03:46.440 Anyway, okay, that's my overview, Dan.

00:03:48.200 But I'm interested in what you think, because you've been covering these guys from the beginning and breaking tons of news on them.

00:03:53.480 Well, no, I completely agree, Megan.

00:03:56.220 I think their victimhood now seeps through everything that they do.

00:04:01.120 And, I mean, you were talking about two of the most privileged human beings on this planet.

00:04:06.000 You know, they are global superstars.

00:04:08.880 They are actual royalty.

00:04:11.240 They are rich beyond any of our wildest dreams, to the point that they actually didn't have to work another day in their life.

00:04:18.100 If they did just want to retire from the spotlight, they could have done that.

00:04:22.040 And so I found the interview disturbing in loads of ways, particularly because I don't think they have accurately presented how the royal family really treated them.

00:04:36.000 And actually, Megan, I remember coming on to your show, you know, on NBC in Windsor that day when they got married.

00:04:45.500 And come on, you know, you saw it.

00:04:47.740 The British public were behind this couple.

00:04:49.940 We wanted them to succeed.

00:04:52.040 This idea that there is this toxic racism dominating the way that the British media or the British public treated Megan and Harry.

00:05:01.260 Not only do I think it's untrue, I think it's offensive.

00:05:06.320 It's the same as we're seeing right now at much lower levels.

00:05:10.400 We're like weak common civilians, which is everything's about race. 0.91

00:05:14.640 She sees everything through the prism of race.

00:05:16.140 Now, we'll get to her allegation about there's a there's a raging racist within the royal family.

00:05:22.180 But I mean, she dismissed the tabloids as racist just today.

00:05:26.100 They released an additional clip on CBS News saying everything was different with respect to her negative coverage because of race and social media.

00:05:33.800 Well, they're not the only ones to ever deal with social media, first of all.

00:05:37.620 And yes, there were definitely some racist articles about Megan in the paper, as there always are some awful articles about like racism, sexism. 0.99

00:05:46.220 Pick your poison.

00:05:47.280 There are always going to be a few that are really unpleasant.

00:05:50.100 But she and he paint with such a broad brush.

00:05:54.100 It's all about racism.

00:05:56.260 It's nothing about their own behavior.

00:06:00.040 Exactly.

00:06:00.520 And that narrative is just wrong because, Megan, as you pointed out at the start of the interview, I was actually covering this couple from before the royal wedding.

00:06:10.380 And there wasn't anything negative published by me.

00:06:14.680 It was only months after the wedding.

00:06:17.040 And so we're sort of talking at this point about November and December 2018, when some negative stories did start to appear.

00:06:25.280 And this was not because the media wanted to create a negative narrative towards Meghan Markle.

00:06:33.300 It was because there were people behind the scenes within the royal family, including the principals, Meghan, which means, you know, the queen and Charles and William, who were very disturbed by Meghan's behavior.

00:06:45.300 So I actually revealed that the queen herself had warned Prince Harry over Meghan's behavior before the wedding.

00:06:54.660 It was her attitude following this big row over what tiara she wore ridiculously. 0.98

00:07:00.240 And then in December 2018, there were the first signs of the rift between Kate and Meghan.

00:07:06.620 Now, Meghan would have you believe that this was all because, you know, they were having a row over the dresses that flower girls were going to wear at the wedding. 1.00

00:07:15.420 But that isn't true, Meghan.

00:07:16.760 It was actually because Kate had heard Meghan speak to staff members at Kensington Palace in a manner that she considered inappropriate.

00:07:26.320 And Kate said to her, these are my staff.

00:07:29.360 You don't speak to them that way.

00:07:31.340 And we now know that there were recorded accusations of bullying by Jason Knauf, who was at the time the communications secretary for Prince Harry and Meghan.

00:07:43.960 And he said that Meghan was bullying junior female staff members.

00:07:49.120 Now, it's unfortunate, isn't it, that that allegation came out after Oprah interviewed Meghan, because I would like to know how she responded to those allegations of bullying, given that she's talking so much about being the bullied one.

00:08:05.840 Of course.

00:08:06.400 I mean, literally, they asked her, Oprah asked her if she has any regrets about her own behavior, any regrets at all.

00:08:12.160 And she has none.

00:08:14.140 She she behaved perfectly, Dan. 1.00

00:08:16.760 Her only regret was that she trusted them, that she trusted these jerks to protect her. 0.99

00:08:23.000 I mean, she takes zero responsibility for anything she did. 0.98

00:08:26.880 And that report about her behavior to human resources or whatever, about how she bullied the young female staffers, as you point out, that was made to over two years ago. 0.80

00:08:35.200 This isn't like, oh, just knowing she's going on Oprah, somebody ran and complained about her behavior a couple of years after the fact.

00:08:42.400 It happened by a very senior guy who worked for Harry and Meghan at the time who was trying to protect these young women who she was running out.

00:08:49.740 And think about how bad you'd have to be if you're a young woman and you get a job working for Meghan and Harry.

00:08:54.300 Right. Like the prince and his wife.

00:08:57.100 You're you're psyched.

00:08:58.840 Think of what it would take to make you quit that job.

00:09:01.380 But they did. And it was reported internally at the time, a couple of years ago.

00:09:05.720 Indeed. And and what's Meghan's response via friends of hers or staff members for her?

00:09:12.360 Oh, again, it's racism.

00:09:14.500 And her allies, the Woketopians, claim that you hear this about any famous mixed race person in showbiz or royalty. 0.89

00:09:24.700 And I disagree with that, Meghan.

00:09:26.920 And you don't hear reports of Gayle King or Oprah or Beyonce or Jennifer Lopez being bullies to their staff members.

00:09:35.860 So, again, I think it's an untrue narrative to excuse unacceptable behavior.

00:09:42.300 That's right.

00:09:43.260 And so let's just back up, because I'll tell you my overall impression after watching it was there were several obvious whoppers.

00:09:51.020 Like, I don't know whether she was consciously lying or just self-deluding.

00:09:56.620 And if I had to put money on it, I put it on the ladder that she's one of those people who is just she's gotten to this place where she sees herself as a victim through every single lens she puts on.

00:10:05.100 And therefore, when she talks about, you know, herself, she's genuinely clueless about how she sounds and how far away from reality she is.

00:10:13.520 Like, her obvious lie that she didn't do any research about Harry.

00:10:18.800 She never Googled Harry.

00:10:20.540 Is there a soul alive who believes that, Dan?

00:10:23.900 Well, she was pictured outside Buckingham Palace, wasn't she, as a young girl.

00:10:28.740 And she admits, Meghan, during the course of the interview, that she's actually friends with Princess Eugenie.

00:10:35.640 And remember, this is Meghan, who was spending lots of time in London looking for a famous British boyfriend, Meghan.

00:10:42.900 Now, you won't have heard of the types of British celebrities that she was targeting. 1.00

00:10:47.320 But, you know, they included the footballer, Ashley Cole, the X Factor winner, Matt Cardle, the boy band star, Max George.

00:10:54.480 These are not big household names.

00:10:56.560 She wanted a famous British boyfriend following her divorce.

00:11:00.260 And look, she hit the jackpot with Prince Harry. 0.94

00:11:02.360 Like, I'm not saying it's not true love, but to somehow try and claim that she didn't know a thing about the royal family when she's in the UK trying to find a British man, I think, big as a thief. 0.76

00:11:16.920 Right.

00:11:17.380 And then she talks about how when she met the Queen, you know, she just thought it was going to be like meeting another L.A. celebrity.

00:11:24.000 I'm from L.A.

00:11:24.940 I see Hollywood celebrities all the time.

00:11:26.900 She didn't realize that the Queen was going to be in a different league. 1.00

00:11:30.440 Bull.

00:11:30.840 I don't believe one.

00:11:32.900 That's not true.

00:11:35.180 So this is just a couple at the beginning.

00:11:36.980 Baloney.

00:11:37.580 Like I was saying on Good Morning Britain, she thought it was going to be like meeting Kris Jenner.

00:11:42.500 Oh, hi.

00:11:43.400 Sure.

00:11:43.860 I mean, baloney.

00:11:45.340 We all know the Queen is in a league of one. 1.00

00:11:49.100 And she was given support by staff members, Meghan.

00:11:53.740 And there was an acknowledgement that we can't let history repeat itself in the same way that we did with Princess Diana.

00:12:01.620 So, again, I just feel like she was looking for a narrative.

00:12:07.080 Remember, this is what Buckingham Palace staff members now think.

00:12:09.600 She was looking for a narrative from day one to suggest that this wasn't going to work.

00:12:15.700 Well, so let's talk about the thing with Kate, because she sort of puts that as the beginning of her troubles.

00:12:21.160 Yes.

00:12:21.840 Where they had this fight over the wedding.

00:12:25.020 And I think we have this soundbite from Meghan.

00:12:27.680 A few days before the wedding, she was upset about something pertaining to, yes, the issue was correct, about flower girl dresses.

00:12:35.200 And it made me cry.

00:12:38.220 You're saying you didn't make Kate cry.

00:12:40.840 Kate made you cry.

00:12:42.560 So we all want to know what would make you cry.

00:12:47.320 What were you going through?

00:12:49.640 And there was a confrontation over the dresses.

00:12:53.980 It wasn't a confrontation.

00:12:54.880 And I actually think it's, I don't think it's fair to her to get into the details of that, because she apologized.

00:13:03.320 Okay.

00:13:03.660 And I've forgiven her.

00:13:05.200 And she went on to say that I just didn't understand why she wouldn't just be supportive like everyone else, given what was going on with my dad, et cetera.

00:13:14.480 And I have to confess, I'm thinking, bridezilla, right, where anybody comes to you and says something about the wedding, like, I don't want my kid to wear that dress.

00:13:22.540 And by the way, this is going to be the future queen of England.

00:13:24.740 So she does have some reasons to think about, you know, images and so on about Princess Charlotte.

00:13:29.600 And she's like, why would she just be supportive of me?

00:13:32.900 Well, I mean, people are individuals.

00:13:35.040 They have their own thoughts.

00:13:36.440 I was like, okay, because this is the beginning of a trend that I thought where she was like, she wouldn't support me.

00:13:42.060 And then it was like, it's not like the crown.

00:13:44.380 No one tells you how to behave.

00:13:46.120 You're married to the prince.

00:13:47.760 Ask him.

00:13:48.460 Don't cry me a river that you don't have some social etiquette lady in there. 1.00

00:13:53.200 I had to Google the national anthem.

00:13:55.140 Oh, poor thing.

00:13:56.260 You probably just figured out Google since you never, ever used it for Harry.

00:13:59.840 I just like, I don't know.

00:14:01.340 You tell me what you thought about the Kate-Meghan fight.

00:14:04.560 And she reads none of these stories either, remember, Meghan, but she seems to know every single detail about every single story that appears in the media.

00:14:13.660 But look, I think this was an example of Meghan wanting Kate to act like all of her Hollywood yes people. 0.64

00:14:21.080 I mean, I know the people who surround Meghan.

00:14:23.440 Meghan, they are, yes, people to the nth degree.

00:14:26.860 They are Hollywood types.

00:14:28.500 They, you know, she tells them what she wants and they deliver it, no questions asked.

00:14:34.140 And Kate feels, I believe quite rightly, that she knows the royal family.

00:14:39.040 She knows protocols.

00:14:40.460 She spent her time really developing from, you know, I hate to use this term, but, you know, it's the term that the royals use, 0.94

00:14:47.900 a commoner in the UK to someone who is now a respected future queen.

00:14:52.780 And I think Meghan didn't like the fact that Kate wasn't prepared to go with what she wanted at this particular dress fitting. 0.99

00:14:59.220 But as I say, I think the bigger point was that Kate started to realise that Meghan was employing some of these bullying tactics with young staff members. 0.99

00:15:10.300 And look, that's not how the royals behave towards their staff.

00:15:14.480 Yes, it's a hierarchical system, but there's actually a lot of respect, Meghan, between the royal servants and the principals.

00:15:23.180 And Meghan, who's used to dealing with Hollywood assistants and agents, just didn't understand that. 0.99

00:15:29.300 And then she's talking about the hell that was living in the palace.

00:15:33.280 Which we did up, by the way, Meghan, to the tune of six million bucks, the British taxpayer, to make her cottage, as they call it, it's not a cottage, it's a mansion,

00:15:46.380 basically look like a branch of Soho House, you know, those very posh private members clubs in Los Angeles and New York.

00:15:52.980 And we paid for that.

00:15:54.200 And she's moaning about it. 0.83

00:15:55.300 And honestly, she's like, well, it was like a month and a half, and I was so lonely.

00:16:00.340 And Oprah's like, well, wasn't Harry around?

00:16:02.500 Well, occasionally he had to take a business trip.

00:16:04.300 Are you kidding me?

00:16:05.800 Cry me a river.

00:16:08.120 People in the United States, in Great Britain and beyond, have spent a year losing their entire livelihoods,

00:16:16.600 being locked up without being able to put their kids into school.

00:16:20.140 Children's suicide rate on the rise in alarming numbers because they're so isolated.

00:16:25.800 And she wants us to feel bad for her because she married the prince and she was lonely in the palace cottage. 0.75

00:16:31.400 No, I'm just saying she's so disconnected from reality, Dan, that it makes it impossible to root for her.

00:16:38.480 Well, it does.

00:16:39.020 And I know what life was like at Frogmore Cottage for Meghan.

00:16:42.580 And believe me, it's a life that the vast majority of us would want to live.

00:16:46.380 So she had the queen's private chefs bringing her whatever she wanted to eat, including all of this vegan food that I'm not used to preparing at Windsor, believe me,

00:16:56.080 delivered to her by silver trolley at all hours of the day.

00:17:01.440 Her friends were able to come and visit her whenever she wanted.

00:17:04.220 And this narrative, Meghan, that the duchess was somehow stopped from doing what she wants doesn't add up with everything that I was reporting at the time.

00:17:14.720 So, for example, against the better judgment of many of her staff, Meghan decided to guest edit Vogue magazine.

00:17:21.980 And she poured hours into it.

00:17:23.960 And it actually caused a lot of controversy because it was highly political.

00:17:27.880 And she pushed the narrative of folk like Greta Thunberg, who, of course, are pushing a left-wing environmental agenda. 1.00

00:17:33.800 And the royal staff members let it happen, Meghan, because they were terrified that this woman, if she didn't get what she wanted, would do exactly what she has now done.

00:17:46.740 What about she saying that you're saying she could have friends come visit her at Frogmore Cottage?

00:17:51.700 And just so the audience knows, just to underscore your point, it's no cottage.

00:17:54.800 It's like five huge houses connected on the grounds of Kensington.

00:17:58.720 This is a mansion.

00:17:59.420 Yeah, this is no cottage, as we understand that term.

00:18:03.200 But she's saying that the royals were saying, you may not have lunch with a friend.

00:18:07.320 Just lie low right now. 1.00

00:18:08.760 Meghan, Meghan, it's rubbish. 1.00

00:18:09.920 It's rubbish. 0.99

00:18:10.740 She flew to New York for a baby shower organized by Serena Williams, which cost hundreds of thousands of pounds. 0.98

00:18:20.560 And she then flew back on George Clooney's private jets, despite the fact that at the time she was telling all of us mere mortals that we should be cutting down our carbon footprint and no longer taking commercial flights.

00:18:34.960 So I'm sorry.

00:18:35.920 This idea that Meghan was imprisoned in Windsor is just a joke.

00:18:41.360 She she she talks about how it was so hard for her because she did all the right things when they went on the tours.

00:18:49.580 She she smiled damp.

00:18:51.680 We made it look like it was fun.

00:18:53.440 We did what we were expected to do.

00:18:55.620 But I was fried.

00:18:57.580 I was exhausted.

00:18:59.040 It was so hard on me.

00:19:00.420 And, you know, this is one of her complaints about what she was forced to do. 0.67

00:19:04.900 It's like, are you kidding me?

00:19:07.360 I mean, you've got to be kidding me.

00:19:08.860 Right.

00:19:09.080 Because like even here in New York City, I go out on the streets in the middle in the dead of winter when it's zero degrees.

00:19:13.720 And I see guys in ditches with jackhammers working on pipes and exploded, you know, things underground and they don't complain.

00:19:21.680 These guys get their fingers dirty that they're tough.

00:19:24.600 They don't complain.

00:19:25.260 They're not bitching because they got a royal tour abroad where people were lauding everything they did, where every whim was taken care of.

00:19:36.240 I mean, there's nothing she can't find herself the victim in.

00:19:40.120 And the weird thing about that tour discussion, Meghan, to me, is that Prince Harry was suggesting that the royal family became jealous of Meghan.

00:19:50.760 She was too successful.

00:19:52.180 The public liked her too much.

00:19:53.980 And again, that's just a narrative that simply doesn't ring true.

00:19:58.100 Prince Charles, believe it or not, was actually quite relieved that Harry and Meghan were becoming quite big stars because he thought that it would keep Prince William and Kate in line because there are the rivalries between the different households.

00:20:12.480 But here's the reality.

00:20:14.380 Meghan didn't want to do the unglamorous royal work. 1.00

00:20:18.560 And a lot of Americans, Meghan, think that you come over and you join the royal family and it is a fairy tale.

00:20:23.560 It is like a little bit.

00:20:24.640 I mean, that's what Meghan said to herself last night.

00:20:26.940 And the reality is that isn't what life is like.

00:20:30.060 Actually, the reality of life, if you're Princess Anne or Sophie Wessex, you know, who's married to Prince Edward, is you're going to a community centre in Nottingham in freezing cold, snowy weather.

00:20:43.440 And you're unveiling that plaque.

00:20:46.280 You know, royal work isn't particularly glamorous.

00:20:50.100 And what we soon learned is that Meghan enjoyed the glamorous side of the job. 0.96

00:20:55.620 She didn't want to get her hands dirty, to use your analogy. 0.77

00:20:58.780 And on top of all this, she was silenced.

00:21:03.940 She actually compared herself to the Little Mermaid.

00:21:08.040 You can't make this up.

00:21:09.960 She compared herself to the Little Mermaid.

00:21:11.340 No, that was quite a moment.

00:21:12.780 That was her aha moment where she saw she married a prince and lost her voice.

00:21:19.860 Now, may I just say, when Piers Morgan came on the show, I played a clip of my daughter, my then six-year-old daughter, before I went over to cover the royal wedding, right, saying, this is my six-year-old American daughter who said, why would someone want to marry a prince?

00:21:38.460 The royal family controls everything you do.

00:21:41.520 Like, you have to do what they say.

00:21:43.180 You have to eat with your left hand.

00:21:44.820 You have no choice, right?

00:21:46.340 Are you telling me Meghan Markle didn't realize that the palace was going to control her access to the media?

00:21:55.180 I mean, let me tell you, just even at Fox News and NBC, I understood they were going to control my access to the media.

00:22:00.640 She didn't get that going over into the royal family?

00:22:03.940 I know.

00:22:05.320 And the idea that her freedom being curtailed amounted to not being able to do a tell-all interview with Oprah Winfrey, her new friend, who, by the way, she invited to the wedding having met her once.

00:22:19.520 I mean, that tells you something, doesn't it?

00:22:21.100 But anyway, that's not having your freedom curtailed, is it?

00:22:25.660 Come on.

00:22:26.840 It's, you know, that is just complete delusion.

00:22:30.660 That doesn't equal freedom.

00:22:32.220 Look, the idea is that the royal family like their principles to ideally avoid media interviews.

00:22:41.480 You know, the Queen, Meghan, has never sat down for one.

00:22:44.820 It's the one that we all want, and she's never done it.

00:22:48.300 Prince Charles really regretted sitting down with Jonathan Dimbleby in the 1990s and admitted being unfaithful to Diana.

00:22:53.840 We saw the disaster of Prince Andrew sitting down with the BBC show Newsnight.

00:22:59.020 That ruined his legacy and potentially could end him in serious criminal trouble as well.

00:23:06.660 So, clearly, there are reasons for communications staff at Buckingham Palace to try and stop royals sitting down with media organizations.

00:23:15.760 But at the end of the day, she was her own woman.

00:23:18.380 If she wanted to do it, she could.

00:23:19.620 And that is why she guest edited Vogue magazine, for example. 0.99

00:23:24.420 Right.

00:23:24.920 And by the way, you know, to your point about Oprah being at the wedding, which was obviously a joke, and Gayle King, you know, here organizing her wedding shower, I mean, her baby shower here in New York, who she didn't know either, right?

00:23:37.900 It's like, and now she wants to be like, oh, no, I'm not into celebrity.

00:23:40.820 And then she says, I'm not into the grandeur.

00:23:42.680 The grandeur of these things means nothing to me.

00:23:44.720 Right. It's like, well, then why was George Clooney at your wedding when you didn't even know him?

00:23:48.840 Why was over there?

00:23:49.620 You didn't know her.

00:23:50.460 Why did you cover yourself in blood diamonds given to you a few weeks earlier by the Saudi prince who had just had Jamal Khashoggi killed?

00:23:56.920 Here, an American journalist, a Washington Post journalist, which you were told and you wanted the diamonds on you.

00:24:02.600 So you wore them in.

00:24:03.460 Like, why did you throw a fit about the tiara as you first reported?

00:24:07.360 Right. Because you wanted the one with the emeralds and you couldn't have it because its provenance was unclear.

00:24:11.300 Could you like, you know what I wanted to hear?

00:24:13.920 You know, it'd be so refreshing as if she got out there and she's like, you know what?

00:24:18.320 I freaking love the glamour and the grandeur.

00:24:20.560 It's awesome.

00:24:21.460 And you know what?

00:24:22.520 Titles are important to me.

00:24:23.740 That's why I'm so pissed off. 0.99

00:24:24.840 There's no fucking prince title in front of my kid's name. 0.99

00:24:28.360 I want him to be a prince. 0.99

00:24:29.680 I married a prince and I thought I'd make a prince.

00:24:31.500 It would be great if she would just own it.

00:24:34.460 But there was just constant internal conflict, wasn't there, Megan?

00:24:38.920 Because there's this idea that they want to be free.

00:24:42.480 And then, as you point out, they're so desperate not to have to pay for anything.

00:24:46.480 And they're so desperate to retain the title.

00:24:50.040 And if they have such a problem with the institution and the firm that they keep talking about,

00:24:53.980 I find it astonishing that they want to remain known as the Duke and Duchess of Sussex.

00:24:59.040 Wouldn't the most powerful thing for them to say, actually, we're breaking the shackles now.

00:25:03.940 They're off.

00:25:04.820 We're Megan and Harry.

00:25:05.860 And we're going to make money in our own right.

00:25:08.320 And I think I would respect that.

00:25:09.600 But we know, Megan, the reason they've got these multi-million pound deals like Spotify

00:25:13.620 and Netflix is because they're a Duke and Duchess.

00:25:17.300 It's not because she was a sort of C-list actor on Suits, which, let's be honest, was not a massive show.

00:25:24.800 I mean, I'd never heard of her before she was dating Prince Harry.

00:25:29.040 And I think pointing to the wedding guest list is particularly interesting because I don't know

00:25:35.040 about you, Megan, but, you know, the most important people in my life are the people who I went to

00:25:39.160 school with, the other people who know me from before I did this crazy job and got into this

00:25:46.280 industry.

00:25:47.240 And Megan had none of those old mates at the wedding.

00:25:50.900 And she had one family member, her mum.

00:25:54.860 Everyone else was from the world of showbiz.

00:25:57.840 And look, as an American, you might say that's very Los Angeles.

00:26:01.780 That's very Hollywood.

00:26:03.060 For me, I view that as a character deficiency.

00:26:07.700 Now, it reminds me of the line in Mad Men, you know, the series Mad Men.

00:26:10.880 And Don Draper was visiting his wife's family.

00:26:14.620 And his father-in-law looked at his daughter and said, he has no people.

00:26:20.340 You can't trust a man like that.

00:26:22.060 Like, where are people?

00:26:23.240 Yes, she's got the dad.

00:26:24.060 We understand what happened there.

00:26:25.760 I don't know what the truth is of that relationship.

00:26:27.860 But where are her people?

00:26:29.240 Where are all of her best friends from childhood and so on?

00:26:32.240 Why am I looking at Oprah sitting in that few steps from the royals when she didn't even 0.65

00:26:37.420 know her?

00:26:38.480 Right?

00:26:38.660 It's like she, Meghan Markle wanted that interview just as badly as Oprah did.

00:26:43.120 All right.

00:26:43.400 Now, hold on.

00:26:44.180 In one second, we're going to get to, I mean, she definitely played the race card and how

00:26:47.700 and and also the mental health card.

00:26:50.360 And I want to get your reaction to that.

00:26:52.300 But let's get a quick add in.

00:26:54.320 More with Dan coming up next.

00:27:00.060 Let's talk about the race thing.

00:27:02.120 She she made a stunning allegation about there being a raging racist inside the royal family. 1.00

00:27:10.120 So we have in tandem the conversation of he won't be given security.

00:27:16.140 It's not going to be given a title.

00:27:20.480 And also concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he's born.

00:27:29.380 What?

00:27:30.980 And who who is having that conversation?

00:27:37.240 With you.

00:27:40.120 What?

00:27:44.200 So.

00:27:48.780 There is a conversation.

00:27:50.040 Hold it.

00:27:50.580 Hold up.

00:27:51.220 There's several.

00:27:51.800 There's several conversations.

00:27:53.040 There's a conversation with you.

00:27:56.680 With Harry.

00:27:58.420 About how dark your baby is going to be.

00:28:02.820 Potentially.

00:28:03.380 And what that would mean or look like.

00:28:04.940 Oh.

00:28:05.280 And you're not going to tell me who had the conversation.

00:28:12.800 I think that would be very damaging to them.

00:28:15.200 OK.

00:28:15.500 So how does one have that meeting?

00:28:20.920 That was relayed to me from Harry.

00:28:22.980 Those were conversations that family had with him.

00:28:26.720 Now, that's a big one.

00:28:29.020 And I will say this.

00:28:30.380 I actually believed her because he came on.

00:28:34.000 Harry came on and backed it up.

00:28:35.920 Harry's the one who told her this happened.

00:28:38.080 Harry came on next and said it happened.

00:28:40.520 But he didn't want to name the family member.

00:28:43.860 And I believe that.

00:28:46.420 But I think it's scurrilous to throw it out there without a name.

00:28:50.440 Because now you've smeared the entire royal family.

00:28:54.200 Well, indeed, and I've spoken to top lawyers here today, Meghan, who say that certain members of the royal family, for example, Prince Charles and Prince William, could even have a case potentially against Meghan and Harry for making this allegation, given how small the family is.

00:29:09.500 And it was very telling that Oprah, after the interview, went public and said, Harry made clear to me that I don't want anyone to think that it was the Queen or Prince Philip.

00:29:21.680 So my translation from that is that he's happy for the public to believe that it could have been Prince Charles, his father, or Prince William, his brother, who said this.

00:29:33.660 And that's quite disturbing.

00:29:35.160 There were a couple of issues with the story as well, Meghan.

00:29:37.300 You heard Meghan say there to Oprah that there were several conversations about this.

00:29:44.400 Prince Harry made it clear to Oprah that there was only one.

00:29:48.260 And, of course, we don't know the context either.

00:29:50.680 We don't know how this was being discussed. 1.00

00:29:52.980 I mean, clearly, it was a very stupid thing to say. 1.00

00:29:56.520 You could argue that it was racist, but you could also argue that it was ignorant. 1.00

00:30:03.800 How? 0.70

00:30:04.320 I don't see any way of that one not being racist.

00:30:06.820 Like, I'm concerned about how dark the kid's going to be. 1.00

00:30:08.920 That's pretty racist.

00:30:10.720 Well, if that's what was said, if that is what was said.

00:30:14.720 But there are a lot of vagaries around this story.

00:30:18.960 But, look, clearly, this was the grenade that the couple intended to let on.

00:30:25.720 And in some ways, I'm quite glad that they did use a specific allegation.

00:30:33.320 But I think we were lacking the detail.

00:30:36.280 And, as I say, you're going to now throw every single member of the royal family under the bus for a comment that may have been made by a distant relative.

00:30:45.940 We just don't know, do we?

00:30:47.540 And, obviously, if it was made by Prince Charles or Prince William, what you're now doing is asking the entire British media to start this guessing game, which I think is actually quite grotesque.

00:31:00.120 Right. So, basically, I mean, it's obvious that they're implying it was either Charles or William.

00:31:07.100 So, what they're essentially saying is the future king of England is a racist. 0.76

00:31:11.540 And we don't even know which one, but one of the next two kings is a racist.

00:31:16.660 And they haven't, quote, done the work, as Harry said about himself, that he tried to educate them.

00:31:22.640 But they just wouldn't do the work, as Harry has.

00:31:27.400 So, I don't know what we're supposed to take away from that.

00:31:31.340 But my thing was, I'm sure that was a disturbing thing to hear.

00:31:36.900 I'm sure it was for both of them.

00:31:38.660 Yeah.

00:31:39.000 But I don't get why I can't talk to the media.

00:31:43.920 And I don't really like taking these tours.

00:31:47.500 And someone once said something racist inside the royal family makes them into these martyred victims who should garner international sympathy when we have reports of them bullying, them feeling entitled, them not wanting to do, quote, the work.

00:32:07.940 That's required to be a royal, as you point out, sitting at the civic center, whatever, you know, why there's no acknowledgement that they had any hand in the deterioration of the relationship at all.

00:32:19.460 No.

00:32:20.240 And they want to push a narrative that the entire institution and that the entire British establishment, including the media, is racist.

00:32:31.040 And, for example, they use this idea that their young son, Archie, wasn't going to become a prince.

00:32:37.200 As an example of that.

00:32:39.720 But, in fact, Megan, that's actually just how it works.

00:32:43.500 Archie will become a prince when Prince Charles becomes king.

00:32:48.040 That's protocol.

00:32:49.200 It's nothing to do with race.

00:32:52.180 And when it comes to security, the reason that was removed is because Harry and Megan made it clear that they no longer wanted to be working senior members of the royal family.

00:33:01.900 So why should British taxpayers at that point pay for their security?

00:33:05.800 See, the whole reason they're getting paid tens of millions of dollars is to get that security.

00:33:11.340 So, first of all, so just so I understand, because I did read that, that it was like, because that was a big point she was making throughout that she was so mad that little Archie wasn't going to be a prince.

00:33:19.820 And she really felt it was a personal affront to him because of the fact that he's part, he's mixed race. 1.00

00:33:27.000 He's one quarter black. 0.99

00:33:29.160 And she was 100%.

00:33:30.620 Right.

00:33:31.080 So, so what I read was that, I guess the way it works is if you're the first, like Prince William's children.

00:33:41.260 Yeah, exactly.

00:33:41.800 Because he is, he is a direct heir to the throne.

00:33:44.200 But as soon as Prince Charles takes the throne, Harry and Megan have that option of making their children princesses and princesses if they choose that.

00:33:56.600 But we do have lots of examples, Megan, of more minor royals in the UK.

00:34:00.340 So, for example, Princess Anne and her children, like, like Zara, who have gone on to carve out a role for themselves where they are royals, but they make their own money, who choose not to take the royal title.

00:34:13.300 But the idea that this was in any way because of the fact that Archie is mixed race is just delusional. 0.95

00:34:22.600 I mean, why would the royal family do that to themselves?

00:34:25.640 So just to back up.

00:34:26.320 So Prince Charles, who is the, the son of the monarch.

00:34:30.260 He's the heir to the throne.

00:34:31.040 Yeah.

00:34:31.280 So his two boys, William and Harry, they were princes.

00:34:34.980 But Prince Charles has three siblings, right?

00:34:37.720 He's got two brothers and a sister.

00:34:39.560 And so were their children princes and princesses?

00:34:44.520 Well, they were because remember at that point, the queen was already on the throne, but Prince Charles isn't on the throne yet, Harry's father.

00:34:53.220 And also remember, there's a modernization process going on.

00:34:56.320 So it is absolutely fair to say that the royals do want a slim line, top, top, top list of the monarchy, right?

00:35:06.500 So they actually do want less princes, princes and princesses.

00:35:11.980 And this is something that Prince Andrew has been battling for a long time.

00:35:15.280 And I know there's a whole other story with Prince Andrew, but for a long time, he has argued that his daughters, Princess Beatrice and Eugenie, should be official royals and should get security paid for by the British taxpayer.

00:35:27.320 And Prince Charles has refused that request because there is a demand by the British public for some of these hanger-on royals to sort of live in all life, to make their own money.

00:35:38.500 And you've got Harry and Meghan saying, we want to make our own money.

00:35:42.580 We don't even want to live in a Commonwealth country.

00:35:45.240 We're going to be in Hollywood.

00:35:46.600 So you can understand why the royal family said that's fine, but you don't get the perks that come with being a royal in that case.

00:35:54.760 But she was saying that they were threatening Archie wouldn't have security when she was pregnant with him before they were making the determination to step away.

00:36:02.880 Yeah, and that was very strange because at that point, they did have full security.

00:36:07.760 The security discussion only happened when they moved to Canada and then started talking about moving to Los Angeles.

00:36:14.920 Because remember, Canada didn't want to pay for their security.

00:36:19.140 And that is the protocol.

00:36:20.740 So if Prince Charles, for example, goes on holiday to New Zealand or South Africa, because they're Commonwealth countries, the South African taxpayers or the New Zealand taxpayers pay for their security.

00:36:32.420 And again, there was a diplomatic row.

00:36:34.880 And you can understand that Canada said, well, we can't pay for Harry and Meghan's security.

00:36:40.400 But as I say, this is all very bureaucratic and technical, but it's certainly nothing to do with race.

00:36:49.480 What does the royal family do in response to that in particular, right?

00:36:52.940 This allegation of racism?

00:36:55.500 Yeah, well, it's crushing.

00:36:56.620 It's crushing.

00:36:58.060 It's devastating.

00:36:59.120 Absolutely what they wanted to do, Meghan, is not respond to this interview whatsoever.

00:37:06.240 They hoped that they would be able to go on with this never complain, never explain approach.

00:37:12.660 They very much said the Queen is focusing on the health of her husband, Prince Philip, who at 99 years old remains in hospital, having had a heart operation.

00:37:20.880 That's an incredibly serious, difficult position that the Queen is currently in. 1.00

00:37:25.920 And also, of course, the fact that this country, the UK, remains in lockdown, gripped by a pandemic which has absolutely torn up society.

00:37:34.920 I mean, today in the UK is the first day that schools go back, for example, in months and months and months.

00:37:38.960 So the royal family want to focus on that.

00:37:42.660 I think the interview is so dynamite and there are so many bombshells.

00:37:47.780 There will have to be a response.

00:37:49.640 How it's done and whether it's on the record or whether it involves more off-the-record briefings, which obviously would be difficult given that's what Harry and Meghan are moaning about at this point.

00:37:59.060 We don't know.

00:38:01.360 And so now let's get to the mental health issue, because the woman who says she didn't plan on saying anything shocking, she didn't plan on saying anything shocking, reveals that she wanted to kill herself.

00:38:15.660 She wanted to commit suicide while she was pregnant with Archie. 0.98

00:38:20.060 I mean, I'm sorry, but it's not adding up.

00:38:23.960 Of course she knew that was going to be shocking.

00:38:26.500 Who?

00:38:27.100 Like, come on.

00:38:28.140 And I that's another thing.

00:38:30.840 I didn't doubt her that she expressed at the time to Harry that she was feeling those thoughts.

00:38:36.380 I didn't because he backed them up.

00:38:38.320 But one has to wonder how she got to that point based on the evidence she offered.

00:38:44.660 I realize it's awful to be the scourge of the press.

00:38:47.260 Been there.

00:38:48.220 Not on her level.

00:38:49.420 I get it.

00:38:50.140 But it's awful.

00:38:51.540 But for her to be suicidal over that, over that.

00:38:57.580 Like, to me, it just wasn't adding up.

00:38:59.940 I was like, there's something missing.

00:39:02.040 What what am I missing?

00:39:03.420 And just to get the audience up to speed, let's play the soundbite of her talking about this issue.

00:39:08.600 Look, I was really ashamed to say it at the time, and ashamed to have to admit it to Harry, especially, because I know how much loss he suffered.

00:39:20.580 But I knew that if I didn't say it, that I would do it.

00:39:27.080 And I just didn't, I just didn't want to be alive anymore.

00:39:31.220 And that was a very clear and real and frightening, constant thought.

00:39:44.020 I went to the institution, and I said that I needed to go somewhere to get help.

00:39:49.060 I said that I've never felt this way before, and I need to go somewhere.

00:39:53.480 And I was told that I couldn't, that it wouldn't be good for the institution.

00:39:57.360 And I called.

00:39:58.840 So the institution is never a person, or is it a series of people?

00:40:02.100 No, it's a person.

00:40:02.920 It's a person.

00:40:03.800 It's several people.

00:40:04.720 But I went to one of the most senior people, just to get help.

00:40:09.900 And I said, I just really, I need help, because in my old job, there was a union, and they would protect me.

00:40:16.980 And I remember this conversation like it was yesterday, because they said, my heart goes out to you because I see how bad it is.

00:40:26.200 But there's nothing we can do to protect you because you're not a paid employee of the institution.

00:40:31.000 Who could she be talking about there?

00:40:32.720 Well, it would be very likely that she's talking about one of the private secretaries, which, in her words, is like the chief executive.

00:40:40.180 So the Queen has one. 0.93

00:40:41.780 Prince Charles has one.

00:40:43.780 William has one.

00:40:45.440 And Harry and Kate had one, too.

00:40:48.040 But, again, there's a couple of issues being conflated here.

00:40:50.440 The first thing I would say is that mental health is incredibly important.

00:40:54.680 And my heart goes out to Meghan that she was feeling that way.

00:40:57.800 I'm incredibly surprised that Prince Harry said he felt shame in seeking her help at that time.

00:41:06.880 Because what you've got to remember is that Harry's main charitable cause in the UK, Meghan, has been mental health.

00:41:14.660 And him and Prince William ran a charity called Heads Together, which was all about people seeking help for mental health problems and taking the stigma away from seeking help for those problems.

00:41:24.820 And remember, Harry himself has openly spoken about the fact that he's been in therapy to deal with his mental health issues.

00:41:32.720 Prince Charles has had therapy.

00:41:35.280 He's admitted that.

00:41:36.040 And even in the 80s, after that really horrific suicide attempt by Harry's mum, Princess Diana, when she threw herself down the stairs at Balmoral while she was pregnant, even then, in the 80s, the royal family acknowledged that there was enough of a mental health issue with Diana to seek medical help for her.

00:41:56.960 So it's very, very shocking to me that we can be in 2018, 2019, and Meghan is unable to seek that help.

00:42:05.760 And I find that really sad, really shocking, quite disturbing.

00:42:10.600 I mean, she seems to be suggesting, doesn't she, that maybe she wanted to go into some form of rehab facility, perhaps?

00:42:17.460 And maybe the royal family had an issue with that.

00:42:21.280 But I think where the issue is being conflated is that there are two different conversations Meghan's talking about.

00:42:25.680 One, with a private secretary who says, no, you can't seek help because that would be bad for the institution.

00:42:32.500 The other, with the head of HR for the royal family who says, I can't assist you because you're not a staff member.

00:42:40.400 Now, clearly, I would say both of those responses are highly unsatisfactory.

00:42:45.760 And there are real questions for the royal family here.

00:42:49.740 You know, right.

00:42:50.780 There has to be some sort of a response on that because you can't have a woman, however she got to that point, suicidal inside the palace.

00:42:58.700 And you just shrugging your shoulders saying, you know, I'd love to help you out, but I got nothing for you.

00:43:04.640 That like that, that was stunning.

00:43:07.420 But I still feel like there has to be more to the story because how.

00:43:10.980 I think so.

00:43:11.680 But she's not like like they were sort of trying to draw these parallels to Diana.

00:43:16.820 She's not like Diana.

00:43:18.280 Diana did have to go through it alone. 0.90

00:43:19.880 As as Harry pointed out, she's there with this loving partner.

00:43:23.820 She's madly in love with her with her prince.

00:43:26.740 She's pregnant. 1.00

00:43:27.560 They have this baby who they adore, you know, a couple of months later.

00:43:30.920 She's ever her every need is taken care of.

00:43:32.840 She does not have the freedom she wants, which was predictable.

00:43:35.220 That must have been frustrating and certain very negative things were being said about her in the press.

00:43:40.760 How does that how does the princess smiling in the white gown we saw a year earlier get to the point of that level of despair over those facts?

00:43:51.740 I just feel like something's missing.

00:43:54.080 I completely agree.

00:43:55.280 Remember, she's an adult.

00:43:56.600 She's got her own support network. 0.98

00:43:59.020 She still had all of her crew in Hollywood, a business manager, lawyers, PR people, lots of new friends in the UK.

00:44:06.880 She also has her own fortune, Megan.

00:44:09.600 So there was nothing financially stopping her saying, you know what?

00:44:13.560 Enough is enough.

00:44:14.280 I'm buying myself a first class ticket to now and I'm going to Hollywood to see my mom.

00:44:18.560 She could have done that. 0.95

00:44:19.840 I know she said she'd stop from doing that, but I'm not she's not imprisoned.

00:44:23.800 And I think the situation with Diana is completely different because Diana, remember, was an 18 year old virgin when she married into the royal family and she had mental health issues from the start.

00:44:37.720 She had bulimia and also it was it was an unenlightened time.

00:44:42.640 So you've got your own husband, a mental health campaigner telling the British public, you've got to seek help.

00:44:49.440 You've got to talk to people if you have mental health issues.

00:44:52.820 I find it very sad and very shocking that he still felt shame in talking to his own family about the mental health problems that his wife was going through.

00:45:02.460 So I agree there are lots of unanswered questions, but, you know, they look, people are adults.

00:45:10.380 You've got to make your own decisions as to what's best for you.

00:45:14.360 And I would say the best thing that Prince Harry could have done at that point is said, who gives a damn what these courtiers are saying to us?

00:45:23.880 I'll drive you myself to the primary and check you in there if I have to, because your mental health is more important than these men in grey suits, as they call them.

00:45:34.880 So, Megan, I think there's more to the story personally and in terms of my own reportage.

00:45:40.440 I want to hear from the staff members at Buckingham Palace, the courtiers, the head of HR.

00:45:46.460 Let's get a proper investigation going into this.

00:45:48.560 If they're investigating Megan bullying staff, I absolutely agree with the fans of Megan who say they should also investigate the HR processes around why Megan was apparently refused help for her mental health condition.

00:46:02.760 Mm hmm. Well, I mean, that's another like one of my frustrations with Oprah was I wanted more specifics and it was it was a very nice interview.

00:46:10.200 Overall, I thought she did a great job. But as a lawyer, I just wanted more specifics.

00:46:14.900 Who who said that to you? Who said they couldn't help you?

00:46:18.520 Who else did you go to? Name names. Who was it that was jealous of you after Australia?

00:46:22.180 Who was it Kate? Is that what you're William? Is that what you're suggesting?

00:46:25.160 Tell me like just some more pressing on specifics would have made her story seem more credible, frankly.

00:46:32.020 I mean, that's really why you push for specifics.

00:46:34.600 Yeah, but but that that wasn't there now.

00:46:38.400 So she she she launches sort of the mental health bomb. 1.00

00:46:42.620 And then today there was there was an additional soundbite released on CBS this morning about whether Harry's ever really ever received an apology from his family for not defending them.

00:46:57.020 Here's what happened.

00:46:57.780 Kate was called weighty Katie waiting to marry William.

00:47:02.660 While I imagine that was really hard and I do, I can't picture what that felt like.

00:47:07.960 This is not the same.

00:47:09.600 And if a member of his family will comfortably say we've all had to deal with things that are rude, rude and racist are not the same.

00:47:16.060 You mentioned earlier, Harry, that you were hurt by the fact that there's been no acknowledgement on the part of your family that this was different because of race.

00:47:29.360 Do you think there ever will be?

00:47:31.820 And would that make a difference to you?

00:47:33.720 Yeah, it would make a huge difference.

00:47:35.800 The thing is, to me, that's belittling what Kate may have gone through.

00:47:40.640 And I think this was meant to be Megan's truth and her story.

00:47:44.740 But I think to belittling what other members of the royal family may have gone through is unfair.

00:47:48.720 I come back again to this claim, this outrageous claim that any of this was racist, Megan.

00:47:56.700 And all I would say is go back to the 80s and the early 90s and look at the treatment that Fergie, you know, Prince Andrew's wife went through, the Duchess of Pork and lots of horrible comments about her weight.

00:48:09.920 Princess Diana, who got her own rough ride, look, there is clearly an issue with outsiders, female outsiders who enter the royal family. 1.00

00:48:20.920 There is an issue there.

00:48:22.660 I'm sorry, I do not sign up to the suggestion that it has anything to do with the fact that Megan is mixed race. 0.92

00:48:30.520 Because if it did, why would the entire country have stopped and celebrated her wedding?

00:48:37.300 I mean, I wrote about it at the time, Megan, and I said, actually, in all of the time I've been in the UK, you know, I moved here from New Zealand 15 years ago.

00:48:45.580 There's only a handful of days where I've ever felt that joy, that spirit, the whole idea that the country was coming together.

00:48:54.120 All of the newspaper editorials said, this is a dawn of a new age for the royal family.

00:48:59.520 We were collectively, as a nation, as a Commonwealth, excited about Megan entering the royal family.

00:49:07.520 So where was this racism?

00:49:09.860 Where was it?

00:49:11.680 You know, people...

00:49:13.500 You can't have it both ways.

00:49:14.940 You can't have it both ways.

00:49:16.480 The newspaper headlines, I was there, I covered the royal wedding.

00:49:19.540 I interviewed the people on the streets, they were in love with her.

00:49:22.600 White, black, otherwise, they were all in love with her.

00:49:26.320 And they loved this modernization of the British monarchy, and were rooting for them.

00:49:31.280 They were swooning over their love affair.

00:49:34.200 If they were racist against her, they wouldn't have felt that way about her or them.

00:49:38.960 Things changed because of reports of her behavior, true or not, in the media.

00:49:44.240 That's what started to turn it.

00:49:45.780 Well, and Megan, that's where I can tell you that the reports, they are true.

00:49:50.940 Of course they're true.

00:49:52.020 And this is something that I get in a lot of trouble for.

00:49:54.040 I've said it before, but I'll say it again.

00:49:55.520 These were not reports being created by the British press.

00:50:00.680 These were reports coming directly from within the royal family.

00:50:05.140 And that's our job.

00:50:06.640 You know, if you are a royal correspondent in the UK, and I was never a royal correspondent

00:50:10.440 at the time when I was breaking these stories, I was the executive editor of the Sun newspaper,

00:50:13.980 which is the biggest selling paper, or was at the time the biggest selling newspaper in the country.

00:50:18.540 It's now the Daily Mail where I'm going to next, I should say that.

00:50:21.820 But these stories were true. 0.96

00:50:24.440 And these stories were coming from within the royal family.

00:50:28.780 Now, maybe that's the issue that Megan and Harry have.

00:50:32.780 But there was a fallout with Kate.

00:50:34.640 She's now admitted that.

00:50:36.540 There was a fallout over the tiara.

00:50:38.880 That's now being confirmed in the hagiography that was released about Megan and Harry finding freedom.

00:50:44.220 So these reports were not made up, Megan.

00:50:46.660 And what's the British press meant to do?

00:50:49.080 Just ignore them because Megan is mixed race? 1.00

00:50:52.060 I mean, that's some type of warped reverse racism.

00:50:56.220 She wanted to be a star.

00:51:00.360 There's a reason Prince Harry's prior two girlfriends chose not to see it through with him, that he was totally in love with those two women.

00:51:07.400 What is it?

00:51:08.160 Cressida and the other one? 1.00

00:51:09.440 Cressida Bonas and Chelsea Davy.

00:51:11.320 Indeed.

00:51:11.540 They made the decision, Megan.

00:51:13.040 They decided this is going to be too tough for us.

00:51:16.800 And they broke Harry's heart.

00:51:18.740 Which we could all see.

00:51:19.880 We could see it from over here, how tough it would be.

00:51:22.220 She went in wide-eyed. 0.81

00:51:23.660 Please.

00:51:24.100 She knew exactly what she was getting herself into.

00:51:26.780 And she was lamenting how she gave up.

00:51:29.120 I gave up my whole life.

00:51:30.260 No one made you do that.

00:51:31.440 No one made you do that.

00:51:32.780 And by the way, now Harry's given up his entire life.

00:51:36.280 Yeah.

00:51:36.440 And Prince Harry actually pointed out that there were members of the royal family encouraging Megan to keep acting because they didn't want her to give up her life.

00:51:46.140 They didn't want her to feel as if she had to give everything up for Harry because they understood that that might result in bitterness.

00:51:53.040 And look at where we are.

00:51:54.040 That was also played as an attack.

00:51:56.680 That was also played as, you know, they were basically telling me I should keep, like, to keep supporting herself, like, keep getting the paycheck.

00:52:03.720 Everything was spun in a way where they had been unfairly targeted.

00:52:08.220 But Prince Charles paid for everything, Megan.

00:52:10.780 And he would have kept on doing that.

00:52:14.160 But when you look at it, I just think it's very tragic, the parallels.

00:52:18.080 When you think Megan enters the royal family without any of her old mates, with only one family member who she's talking to, she's fallen out with her half-sister, Samantha.

00:52:28.060 She's fallen out with her dad.

00:52:29.420 Now you've got Prince Harry a couple of years later.

00:52:32.380 He's fallen out with all of his old mates, all of the people who he was in the army with, who he used to go out to nightclubs with, fallen out with all of them, cut contact when he started to date Megan.

00:52:41.640 And now he's fallen out with his dad and his brother.

00:52:47.040 You know, lots and lots of alarm bells there because William and Harry were close.

00:52:52.260 And if you speak to people close to Megan, sorry, if you speak to people close to William, Megan, like I have done many, many times over the years, he's devastated about this.

00:53:02.660 You know, he feels like he did everything he could over years and years and years to look after his brother.

00:53:09.620 And this is how he's being treated.

00:53:11.840 And we should.

00:53:12.440 That's the thing.

00:53:12.960 So.

00:53:13.460 So can I tell you, I don't.

00:53:14.960 Yeah, we've been harsh on her in this, but I give him no pass either.

00:53:19.600 I don't see her as some master manipulator who rested him away from his family.

00:53:22.960 He rested himself.

00:53:24.080 He was restable.

00:53:25.220 He he wasn't loyal to his family.

00:53:27.080 He didn't defend his family.

00:53:28.220 He didn't defend the British people and the way of life over there that had been so good to him.

00:53:32.400 He only saw himself as troubled and victimized, too.

00:53:34.900 Right up to the point of him talking about his when the royal family took away security, he didn't want to do the job anymore of being a royal.

00:53:42.440 And they said, OK, that means you're going to lose certain things, including your security.

00:53:46.380 And that's just the way it goes.

00:53:47.460 We can't ask the British taxpayers to pay for your security over there in California or in Canada.

00:53:52.140 That's not fair.

00:53:53.320 And he was talking about himself like he was a pauper on the street.

00:53:58.040 Dan, it was like, yeah, all I had was my mother's inheritance, which I looked up.

00:54:03.040 It's about 16 million dollars.

00:54:05.200 You know what?

00:54:06.100 Anybody over here could make a security team happen with 16 million dollars, especially when he's had his every expense from zero to age 36 paid for by the British tax.

00:54:18.580 He hasn't had to pay one dollar for anything.

00:54:21.500 It was his disconnect from how real people live and are was stunning.

00:54:26.000 Yeah.

00:54:27.000 And do you know what I wish I'd heard from Prince Harry, especially given all of this talk of racism?

00:54:33.060 What about his own experiences with racism and how he learned from that?

00:54:37.820 Because remember, Prince Harry went to a fancy dress party in a Nazi uniform, which he was severely criticized for at the time.

00:54:48.300 He was then caught on video referring to a fellow soldier of his, you know, when he when he was on duty as as the P word, a word that I won't say, but it's a it's a highly controversial racial term used in the UK for folk of Asian descent.

00:55:06.520 And we never hear about that.

00:55:09.420 We never hear about his own experience with racism and how he got over it.

00:55:14.540 And for me, actually, that would have been more enlightening than just slagging off the British press for being racist, slagging off his his family members for being racist.

00:55:24.020 You know, he's had his own experiences with racism.

00:55:27.080 How did he get over it?

00:55:28.360 I would have liked to have heard more from him on that.

00:55:31.880 Well, to me, it was like they both clearly had some media coaching prior to this interview, but they needed more.

00:55:38.360 I mean, I didn't think he was delivering the right message.

00:55:42.140 It should have been complete acknowledgement of the privilege that he has, thanks to the British people and how this has been a painful event.

00:55:49.480 But they're good.

00:55:50.640 They've got this.

00:55:51.680 You know, they're they're living their private life now.

00:55:53.580 And it was it's a little hard to sort of fall on the privacy thing when you're talking to Oprah in front of tens or hundreds of millions of people.

00:56:03.280 But, OK, fine, we'll accept this is going to be the only one.

00:56:06.020 And you want your privacy, even though now we're going to see you on Netflix and on Spotify.

00:56:09.620 OK, we're going to try to buy it.

00:56:11.000 But you look over at her message.

00:56:12.160 It was all over the board.

00:56:13.140 She starts with, you know, the nonsense about how she never, ever Googled Harry.

00:56:17.400 And she had no idea the queen was not like a Hollywood celebrity. 0.99

00:56:21.080 Oh, and I'm not into grandeur.

00:56:22.460 Again, I've dismounted, dismantled that.

00:56:24.800 And I don't like titles.

00:56:26.340 I don't care about the title.

00:56:27.420 But why the hell isn't my son a prince?

00:56:29.100 And then it's the whole interview is peppered with.

00:56:32.240 I am an advocate for I've advocated for women for so long to use their voice.

00:56:37.340 My most important title is mom.

00:56:40.900 I was so courageous to come forward about my mental health issues.

00:56:44.800 And then here was the capper.

00:56:47.000 Here was the capper when she was touring the chickens she was taking care of.

00:56:51.780 Let's listen.

00:56:52.780 She's always one of the chickens. 0.98

00:56:54.240 But, you know, I just love rescuing.

00:56:56.100 So this is a part of your new life.

00:56:58.060 What are you most excited about?

00:56:59.620 What are you most excited about in the new life?

00:57:01.840 What are you most excited?

00:57:02.620 Chick, chick, chick, chick, chick. 1.00

00:57:03.760 I think just being able to live authentically.

00:57:07.440 Right?

00:57:07.840 Like this kind of stuff that's so, it's so basic, but it is really fulfilling.

00:57:15.120 I mean, Megan, it is not.

00:57:17.120 Love rescuing.

00:57:17.560 It is not living authentically, revealing, hosting a gender reveal party for your baby, a future princess, potentially, of the UK on Oprah Winfrey when you're claiming that you want privacy.

00:57:33.260 The two things do not add up.

00:57:36.920 Oh, it's exhausting.

00:57:38.960 I really want these two to just be quiet.

00:57:40.840 If they want a private life in the United States, great.

00:57:44.080 Go for it.

00:57:44.720 Enjoy your $150 million you got from Netflix and Spotify, reportedly.

00:57:48.840 But by the way, for doing nothing.

00:57:50.060 According to my team, the podcast that was on Spotify was basically them saying something like,

00:57:55.220 and now Elton John, and then somebody else comes out and does all the work and it's like, okay, bye.

00:57:59.680 Like they're not really doing anything, but enjoy that.

00:58:03.000 Okay, fine.

00:58:03.680 But just stop laying the victim.

00:58:08.040 I'll give you the last word, Dan.

00:58:09.660 I completely agree.

00:58:10.620 And I really hope that Harry thinks about the importance of the monarchy, the importance of his grandmother's position, not just to the UK, but to the Commonwealth and the wider world.

00:58:23.700 And just think about, does his family really deserve this at this time?

00:58:30.960 You know, this is going to be a really difficult, a rocky couple of years for the royal family, Megan.

00:58:35.680 You know, the Queen, she's aging.

00:58:39.180 We want her to hang around forever, but that's not going to happen realistically.

00:58:44.540 Her husband, will he get to 100?

00:58:46.760 My goodness, we pray, we hope so.

00:58:48.620 But it's going to be really dark days for Great Britain when the Queen and Prince Philip eventually do pass.

00:58:57.620 And I think we need a strong royal family.

00:58:59.780 I think it's an important thing for Great Britain.

00:59:03.260 And Harry has to realize that playing the victim and throwing these allegations around is going to damage the monarchy,

00:59:09.960 potentially to the extent that it makes it much harder when his father, Prince Charles, eventually takes the throne.

00:59:15.860 So clearly there's lots of personal issues here, but I just hope that he takes a step back and just think this isn't all about us.

00:59:23.200 Do you know what I mean?

00:59:23.600 There's something much bigger and much deeper at play here.

00:59:27.420 Don't hold your breath.

00:59:29.140 Dan Wooten, it's a pleasure.

00:59:30.900 Thank you for being here.

00:59:32.920 Thank you so much, Megan.

00:59:34.160 And don't go away, because coming up, we're going to have Barry Weiss with the latest on the fight against these wokesters who are completely eroding one's civil liberties. 1.00

00:59:52.460 Joining me now, Barry Weiss.

00:59:54.020 We got to start with the royals because I just I know a lot of people don't care.

00:59:57.340 I don't know why I care, but I'm very interested.

00:59:59.160 I can't believe that this victimization thing, it goes all the way up to the royal family.

01:00:04.260 You can become a princess and live in a castle and still see yourself as a victim, Barry.

01:00:09.660 First of all, it's 7 a.m. here in L.A.

01:00:11.840 I'm up only because of you, and I am definitely hung over from last night.

01:00:16.380 That was the best television I have seen in years.

01:00:20.060 Would you I hope you would agree with that, at least.

01:00:21.780 Yeah, it was awesome.

01:00:22.540 Oprah is a master.

01:00:24.580 I know I saw on your Twitter that you wish that she went further.

01:00:26.860 But the fact that she said, I mean, I couldn't believe what they were revealing.

01:00:34.220 Now, I'm sure they're best friends in Montecito and they planned the conversation long in advance.

01:00:38.020 But anyway, I was impressed.

01:00:39.500 I kind of just what was brilliant about it is the combination, which we have seen many times before,

01:00:46.340 but never quite this Olympian level of claiming victimization and grabbing an unbelievable amount of power at the same moment.

01:00:57.300 Like that was the most brilliant power grab I have ever seen.

01:01:01.720 I saw that someone called it the Second Declaration of Independence.

01:01:05.500 That's incredible to me.

01:01:07.060 Maybe you disagree.

01:01:08.460 I don't know.

01:01:09.000 I don't see it that way.

01:01:09.700 I actually think that like Twitter was so divided last night.

01:01:12.240 I think people fell along their party lines, right?

01:01:14.380 Like liberal Twitter was totally in their camp and conservative Twitter was totally against them.

01:01:19.040 And I was against them.

01:01:20.960 I just I wasn't feeling I was open minded.

01:01:23.360 I did believe a lot of what she said and I did not believe a lot of what she said.

01:01:26.900 But overall, I was I just I didn't get how somebody said something racist about their kid, which I believed.

01:01:34.840 Um, they weren't being protected in the press, which is unpleasant, drove her to suicidal thoughts.

01:01:42.100 I think there's something more going on here.

01:01:45.060 And I don't know if it's a preexisting thing with her or if not all the story's been told.

01:01:49.200 But to me, it's it doesn't make sense.

01:01:51.940 It doesn't make sense.

01:01:53.280 Yeah, to me, I listen, I can't imagine joining the royal family and the kind of restrictions that that comes with.

01:02:00.660 But the notion that someone wouldn't have any understanding that, yeah, you give up your driver's license because you have a fleet of cars to drive you everywhere or a horse or whatever.

01:02:11.800 However, the idea that a Hollywood actress like doesn't know what a streamer is and didn't have any idea of what they would do when they came to California for the idea that, you know, I love the moment.

01:02:24.960 I love the moment where they're like pretending like they've only seen a few episodes of The Crown where, you know, they've seen every bit of it.

01:02:31.800 But totally.

01:02:33.200 But I have to say, but I but I believe that it was a torturous experience.

01:02:39.080 It's just very hard for me to believe that a woman that is so sophisticated and savvy had no idea what she was getting into in the way that she says.

01:02:50.700 Yeah, I would have rather she just she just owned it.

01:02:54.140 Honestly, like, yes, I was thrilled to marry a royal.

01:02:56.720 Of course, it's exciting to become a princess.

01:02:58.940 I knew I'd be giving up a lot.

01:03:00.180 I knew I'd have my voice silenced.

01:03:01.900 Of course I did.

01:03:02.640 I'm joining the royal family.

01:03:04.180 But it was 10x what I ever thought it was going to be.

01:03:07.960 And so we decided to leave.

01:03:09.080 And now I'm going to be a private citizen.

01:03:10.580 And they didn't behave great.

01:03:11.920 And by the way, neither did I.

01:03:13.620 And lots of love.

01:03:14.540 Bye.

01:03:15.060 Thanks for my hundred and fifty million dollars, which I never would have gotten as a host of suits or an actress in suits who hadn't married a prince.

01:03:23.740 Like, come on.

01:03:25.220 Meghan Markle wasn't going to see one hundred and fifty million dollars. 0.71

01:03:27.800 And she's going to make much more than that.

01:03:29.320 And nobody was going to know her name.

01:03:31.120 It's all thanks to them.

01:03:32.580 But there isn't one drop of gratitude coming from her.

01:03:35.780 It's all about what, you know, how sad we should feel for her and how she was the perfect being. 1.00

01:03:41.740 She made no mistakes other than trusting these assholes. 1.00

01:03:44.300 And and it's all on them. 1.00

01:03:46.140 I just OK, I'm all fired up still.

01:03:48.000 All right, there.

01:03:48.800 Let's let's move on to more important things.

01:03:50.820 Our country.

01:03:51.420 Like, OK, but I do think it is politically masterful, because if you're the royal family, how do you respond to something so like those accusations were horrific?

01:04:04.440 How do you respond to that?

01:04:05.640 And I just I just think if we're looking at it just from a purely cold political power strategic perspective, as much as you cringed and your jaw was on the floor, they come out on top.

01:04:15.200 OK, moving on.

01:04:15.900 I'm sorry.

01:04:16.280 OK, good.

01:04:18.540 All right.

01:04:18.800 So the reason I want to have you back so soon is because now something's happening.

01:04:24.000 We talked all about how new lanes needed to be created for against these sort of crazy wokesters who are trying to shut everybody down and kick everybody out and cancel everybody and judge everybody, whether it's our schools or it's our corporations or it's our sports. 0.98

01:04:38.160 You know, pick your industry.

01:04:40.440 And you you've found something that can fight back.

01:04:45.580 You've helped to start it.

01:04:49.160 And I'm on the advisory board, but I confess I don't totally understand all of what FAIR is doing.

01:04:54.760 So you do.

01:04:55.860 And you're going to walk us through how this can help regular Americans who are sitting at home right now saying, oh, my God, what's going on in my school?

01:05:03.100 Or, oh, my God, my corporation is going to make me take this critical race theory and I don't want to do it and I feel uncomfortable.

01:05:07.520 So it's called FAIR.

01:05:09.460 Can you explain?

01:05:10.020 Yeah, so FAIR is an acronym for the Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism.

01:05:16.040 The president of it was a regular parent, just like I imagine lots of people who listen to the show and certainly lots of people who read what I write, who for the past it's more than a year have been coming to me.

01:05:32.680 And Megan, I imagine, you know, you've had your own experience at school, so you know exactly what I'm talking about, are distressed by sort of the ideological takeover of oftentimes extremely prestigious schools, but sometimes the local public school, because this is really, really widespread.

01:05:48.880 And unlike a lot of parents who say to themselves, you know, this is bad, but the school is great and I want my kids to have the best chance possible at getting into the Ivy League, this particular parent, his name is Byron Bartoning, said no.

01:06:06.020 Once he, you know, he tried as much as he could to kind of fight it within the school, it didn't seem like it was working.

01:06:13.320 And he basically said, you know what, I don't want my children indoctrinated with this.

01:06:16.740 So he pulled his children out of Riverdale in Manhattan, which is, you know, one of the probably most elite prep schools in the country and decided he has no background in politics or activism, but kind of spent a good six months as this was going on, educating himself about why were, why were his children and he himself is mixed race.

01:06:42.280 Why were they being told to separate themselves by race?

01:06:45.520 Why were they being told to fixate on their immutable characteristics?

01:06:49.660 Why were they told, as he writes in an op-ed in today's Wall Street Journal, to check each other's thoughts and actions, which especially to his wife, who's a Jew from the former Soviet Union, who had Jews stamped in her passport and who once reported her father to the local police, because that's the kind of indoctrination you have in the Soviet Union.

01:07:06.860 And they, as a couple, were really, really allergic to this kind of ideology.

01:07:11.240 And they were especially disturbed that it was happening in children in elementary school.

01:07:14.900 And so that was the kind of genesis of FAIR.

01:07:17.640 You know, someone with a total entrepreneurial background who thought, this is existential.

01:07:22.280 If this spreads everywhere, and it seems like it is, like wildfire, where are we going to be as a country?

01:07:30.020 Where are we going to be as a culture?

01:07:31.840 This ideology undermines our most foundational values and our common culture.

01:07:37.780 So we used to go to the ACLU, right?

01:07:40.420 Like, we used to go to the ACLU to say, hey, help protect my civil liberties.

01:07:44.100 I shouldn't be forced to talk about my immutable characteristics or discriminate it against because of them.

01:07:48.860 And that's right.

01:07:50.100 But the ACLU, like the SPLC, and like so many organizations that once upheld, you know, the kind of liberal order or stood up for civil liberties and civil rights for all, they're no longer in the business of doing that.

01:08:05.860 I mean, that's the kind of cleanest way to put it.

01:08:08.640 And, you know, we have, thank God, the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, which is FIRE.

01:08:14.020 Today, a bunch of academics launched something called the Academic Freedom Alliance, I believe it's called, that's trying to do this kind of thing in the academy.

01:08:23.080 But there wasn't any common address to do the kind of work that the ACLU and the SPLC once did.

01:08:30.340 Southern Poverty Law Center.

01:08:31.340 Yeah, sorry.

01:08:32.660 I'm sorry, Megan.

01:08:33.320 Yeah, to educate the public, to empower normal people to understand what was going on, to stand up for what's right, including by filing lawsuits, to do all of those things in one roof.

01:08:45.700 And most importantly, you know, people used to say proudly, or maybe it was a joke, it's kind of hard to tell, that you're a card-carrying member of the ACLU.

01:08:53.160 That might be a conservative talking point that was used to smear liberals. 0.98

01:08:56.020 I don't really know.

01:08:57.160 But the point is, it meant something.

01:09:00.240 If you were a card-carrying member of the ACLU, it meant that you stood up for a certain set of things.

01:09:04.660 That is what FIRE is aspiring to do.

01:09:07.640 And I think it could not come at a more urgent moment.

01:09:11.520 All right, now, and my next question is going to be, like, practically speaking, how does this work for people?

01:09:16.260 But before we get to that, I just want to point out, poor Bayan, who has the Wall Street Journal piece and who founded this organization, FIRE.

01:09:23.220 And I love the name, too.

01:09:24.960 I mean, it's just like, it speaks to exactly what we need.

01:09:27.640 Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism.

01:09:30.260 Because as you pointed out, this is neo-racism, what we're dealing with here.

01:09:33.380 This is racism against people who don't want racism.

01:09:36.920 It's like, okay, so anyway, so he founded FIRE.

01:09:40.240 And he, his op-ed makes pretty clear Riverdale kind of pushed him out.

01:09:47.120 He raised concerns about this craziness.

01:09:50.340 And this is a person of color.

01:09:52.180 And he was like, what are you doing?

01:09:53.980 You know what?

01:09:54.420 Why?

01:09:54.780 This doesn't seem healthy.

01:09:55.840 And they were basically like, maybe this isn't the school for you.

01:09:59.140 I found that shocking.

01:10:01.180 I guess the reason that I don't is that I've been working for a few weeks now on a school that, sorry, on a piece that interviewed probably almost three dozen,

01:10:12.600 but certainly more than two dozen parents, dissident teachers, and children at 10 of the most prestigious prep schools in LA and New York.

01:10:22.040 And one story that I was told by a young mother in Manhattan who has a preschooler and is, you know, on paper seems like the exact person that you'd want to be in one of these schools.

01:10:32.580 She's kind of like a girl boss, I guess you could say. 1.00

01:10:35.760 And it is now part of the interview process in these schools to make sure that your family commits to, you know, the school's anti-racism pledge.

01:10:47.060 And I want to be clear for people that are hearing that word, there's a difference.

01:10:52.520 And I think Farah is trying to make this distinction between good anti-racism, the kind of anti-racism that says we want to fight for a world in which Americans, all people, are judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin.

01:11:09.100 And then there's bad anti-racism that says you are constrained to your, to the lane that you are born into and your skin color is sort of the main determinant of your path in life.

01:11:24.900 And that, you know, the idea of aspiring toward a world in which we are sort of post-racial is not even something we should aspire to.

01:11:34.940 It's basically the critical race theory view of anti-racism, the view that is most prominently articulated by someone like Ibram Kendi.

01:11:43.640 And so these schools have really sort of gone in hardcore for that view.

01:11:50.380 And the fact that it, to me, the fact that it's part of the process of application blew my mind.

01:11:58.360 I'll tell you one other story that kind of shocked me.

01:12:00.980 And this same mother was in the process of trying to figure out where her kids are going to go to school.

01:12:06.940 And she was at home drawing with her daughter.

01:12:11.180 And her daughter, who's four years old, said to her, I need to draw in my own skin color.

01:12:16.760 And she told her mother that skin color is really important.

01:12:20.220 And that's what her teachers taught her in preschool.

01:12:22.820 Oh, God.

01:12:23.620 I mean, I know that Brearley, which is one of the best all-girls schools in the country that's here in New York, they're saying that.

01:12:31.380 They're saying that you must declare your anti-racist principles.

01:12:34.480 And they don't, again, they mean, they're talking about the bad anti-racism, the Ibram X. Kendi anti-racism, total oxymoron.

01:12:42.300 You must declare it before you even get in.

01:12:44.560 And you have to take anti-racism classes.

01:12:47.120 You've got to go through, you know, sort of the deprogramming for your racism before you can get in.

01:12:53.620 Well, and it's affected every aspect.

01:12:57.560 It's not just like you have to take a kind of human resources like D&I thing.

01:13:03.480 It infects the whole curriculum.

01:13:05.420 So a student at Fieldston told me that in physics they were told, you know, we don't call them Newton's laws anymore.

01:13:12.680 We call them the three fundamental laws of physics because her teacher told her we need to de-center whiteness.

01:13:20.160 I don't even understand that.

01:13:21.820 What?

01:13:22.480 What?

01:13:23.620 Yeah, I'm telling you.

01:13:26.260 I mean, this is at a level that is wild.

01:13:29.340 And I think what is important for people to understand is that it's kind of easy to laugh off like the radical chic politics of a school like Dalton, right?

01:13:38.860 Or a school like Harvard-Westlake in L.A. or Brentwood, where I am right now.

01:13:42.900 But the point, right, is that the prep schools mirror what the so-called meritocracy, what elite America wants.

01:13:53.180 Nothing happens in those schools that isn't a reflection of what Harvard and Yale and Princeton and therefore, you know, all of the very prestigious places that people from those schools go off to work want.

01:14:03.980 And so as I'm reporting this story, I see that the cartoon network is imploring children to see color.

01:14:11.080 I see that Coca-Cola employees in their D&I initiative were instructed to be less white.

01:14:16.260 We see eBay removing all listings of, you know, the newly problematic Dr. Seuss.

01:14:21.480 It's very important for people to understand that this ideology is so savvy because it claims to be speaking truth to power.

01:14:32.800 But the reality is, is that it is the power increasingly.

01:14:37.420 It is the power.

01:14:39.340 Yeah, that's exactly right.

01:14:41.260 And we ignored it at our peril.

01:14:42.800 We did that.

01:14:43.520 That's how we got in this mess.

01:14:44.500 I remember back in 2010, I want to say, I was on the air every day laughing at this nonsense about what cupcakes we'd become, about how you couldn't say anything, right?

01:14:55.620 And just sort of laughing at these college students who needed their safe spaces for everything.

01:14:59.960 Well, guess what?

01:15:00.720 They won.

01:15:02.200 Who's laughing now, right?

01:15:03.820 And so we ignored it at our peril because now it's seeped down into K through 12 education.

01:15:07.860 So they're getting to them even sooner with this indoctrination and this nonstop censorship of how one must think and see the world.

01:15:16.360 So if we don't fight back now, prepare to lose forever.

01:15:19.320 Prepare because they're really, I think, A, they're indoctrinating children, but B, they're sowing such division.

01:15:25.380 This is going to have such negative long-term consequences when it comes to race relations.

01:15:29.840 We have no idea the devil we're unleashing here.

01:15:32.660 Well, I would say, you know, there was one teenage boy that I spoke to who told me that, you know, if I even named him or described him as a capitalist, it would ruin his life.

01:15:45.540 This is obviously hilarious to me given the kind of school that this young man goes to, but I don't doubt that he's telling me the truth given what's, you know, happened to other kids.

01:15:54.380 Because, yeah, I would just say that the, he, so he said to me, he said to me, MLK would condemn my school.

01:16:04.300 And he said to me, I think much more now about my race than I've ever thought about it before.

01:16:11.520 And I think that, you know, having people fixate on their race, having people think that whiteness is an important thing for who they are, the backlash to that, you know, the downstream effects of that are really scary to me.

01:16:28.440 Yeah, they are.

01:16:29.520 And now, again, I am going to get to specifically what people can do to help themselves with this.

01:16:35.280 But let's just talk for one second about some of the backlash to the announcement affair, right?

01:16:40.700 It's like, this is an organization that's going to, that's going to fight racism.

01:16:44.880 It's going to fight intolerance.

01:16:46.220 It's going to stand up for people who are being bullied.

01:16:48.460 And then you get people like, um, this guy, this guy was part of the reply all podcast that just got quote paused after one of the podcast hosts that were, they were accused of contributing to a toxic workplace, toxic workplace.

01:17:03.320 Okay.

01:17:03.640 So this is the reply all podcast. 0.93

01:17:05.140 And this guy who's associated with it has decided fair sucks that fair is, is quote, is quote, a bunch of far right psychos and ghouls who have formed an organization to defend their right to be racist in public.

01:17:18.900 So that's how this guy, Alex Goldman, sums up what you're doing, what I'm doing, what Glenn Lowry is doing, what Coleman Hughes is doing. 0.74

01:17:25.580 Thomas Chatterton.

01:17:26.420 No.

01:17:26.680 No.

01:17:26.840 Okay. 1.00

01:17:27.820 Racist psychos and ghouls. 0.97

01:17:31.880 Well, I mean, I, you know, I, I, the, the, we don't have time to get into the reply all, um, cancellation turducken that was truly, you know, ripped straight from the onion, that entire situation. 0.97

01:17:45.360 Um, and if I described it to your listeners, they would actually think I was a psycho.

01:17:49.780 So I'm not going to do that.

01:17:51.000 I will simply say that I don't put much stock in, um, in his view or the view of any of these, you know, random people that want to tear down rather than build up.

01:18:02.980 I will simply say that I am so proud to be on a board with the people that you named and, you know, two dozen more who are some of my heroes in the culture.

01:18:15.520 Um, someone like Daryl Davis, who's counseled dozens of people out of the KKK, someone like, you know, I on her CLE, Camille Foster, John McCorder, you know, Megan Kelly.

01:18:26.800 I, I'm a Coleman. I'm, I'm just so proud. And I think of the board and this whole group as kind of the best advertisement for what fair is meant to be about.

01:18:36.840 We certainly don't agree on everything, but we're coming together, a coalition of liberals and moderates and conservatives to say enough.

01:18:45.400 These are the values that uphold, like, I don't think people understand how fragile, um, uh, liberal democracy is.

01:18:56.340 I don't mean to sound too high-minded, but, but I really don't think people grasp that.

01:19:00.620 And I think what fair understands is that it is fragile and that those basic ideas, you know, that we don't judge each other based on our immutable characteristics, that we don't believe that people have racial, collective racial guilt, that we believe that we're all entitled to fair treatment and equality under the law.

01:19:21.980 I mean, those seem so obvious. It's almost sad to have to assert them, but unfortunately they're not obvious right now. And I'm just very proud to be part of an organization that's, that's really trying to raise that flag.

01:19:34.640 Me too. When I heard the names of the people who are involved, I, my, my heart swelled. It was like, oh my God, this is a cast of all stars who are getting behind this organization. That's going to fight for good.

01:19:46.320 And, and, and unlike the Harper's letter, which, and I love Thomas Shatterton Williams, he's coming on soon, but, um, unlike the Harper's letter, which really didn't have any true conservatives, you know, had, it was only people who didn't like Trump.

01:19:58.820 Now they were ideologically different, but they were, they all disliked Trump. This is, I mean, across the board, people who have really different opinions, people whose political stripes are opposite of one another's, but coming together to fight this singular, hugely important battle. That's why it gives me hope that we're going to win. You know, it's like, that's what we need. This is the microcosm of, of what we need America to be next.

01:20:26.040 I, I totally, I think it's modeling the kind of, um, cooperation and conversation that we, we need to see in the world, like doing it ourselves and showing other people that that's possible. And, um, yeah, I mean, we had, um, Eli Steele, who's also on the board, who I was crying, Megan, when I listened to him on your podcast, we had him over for about dinner two nights ago. And we were talking about this and it just got me so excited about, about what's possible and what,

01:20:55.780 what we can do. So this is a first attempt. You know, last time I was on, we talked about all of the things that need to be built. You know, this is one of so many things. So I would just encourage anyone listening to this, like the work's not over. Like, this is just the first property.

01:21:11.440 So, so, okay. And of course, if you want to support fair, please go ahead. You can, you can Google it fair.org, right?

01:21:18.620 Fair enough. It's fair for all.org. And, uh, if you want to sign up, it's backslash join us. And I will say that we know that people are really concerned about, um, anonymity around this issue and protecting people's privacy. And we can absolutely assure you, um, that we will. And, you know, I would say that the most urgent thing, there's, there's lots of things we're going to do. The most urgent thing I would say that we're doing right now is organizing parents in chapters all over the country.

01:21:47.520 And so if you're a parent and you're concerned about what's going on in your child's school, um, this is the organization for you.

01:21:53.920 Okay. Yeah. So as a practical, so, so what are the, where are we starting schools? Yes. A hundred percent. Anything else right now?

01:22:02.620 Educating the public. It shouldn't take someone like buy-in six months to understand what critical race theory is, what post-structuralism is, where these ideas come from.

01:22:13.240 We want to be, um, making, and one of the things that this ideology does is that it dresses itself up in very seductive, often very jargony language that makes people who don't have a PhD feel like they're not smart enough to understand it.

01:22:29.880 We think that's, frankly, BS. And we want to be, um, educating people about what this ideology really is, despite what it claims to be, um, and why it's so dangerous.

01:22:41.600 Um, and we want to be organizing and connecting the people that feel isolated in their school, in their company, um, connecting them so they feel part of a community.

01:22:50.800 Ultimately, what we want to be doing is offering people an alternative. So for example, if you're running a company and you're going to do, um, a DNI initiative, you know, there's one widget on the shelf and that widget is the critical race theory version of anti-racism.

01:23:05.040 We want to offer the Daryl Davis, John McWhorter, uh, Glenn Lowry, Coleman Hughes, Chloe Valdari version of, of anti-racism, one that is pro-human, that is positive, that is optimistic, and that's rooted in, in compassion.

01:23:21.180 Um, so those are some of the things we want to be doing. I'll leave one last thing.

01:23:26.800 What's DNI? Explain DNI.

01:23:29.040 Right, DNI, um, uh, diversity and inclusion initiative.

01:23:32.520 So, you know, when Coca-Cola is doing, um, a diversity and inclusion initiative through their HR, we don't want that initiative to be one that tells people, um, that they need to be less white because that's not really useful.

01:23:49.180 We want to, or, you know, like I'm thinking about, I think it's the Sacramento, um, sorry, the San Diego school district just had a training in which white teachers were told that they spirit murder black children.

01:24:02.520 We don't think that that's really a great message or a useful or productive, uh, pathway toward, um, healing divisions toward racial comedy. 0.79

01:24:13.540 Yeah, or, or, or like in, in my case, in my son's school, telling all the kids in the classroom who love each other, our best pals go to every birthday party, every event together, hang out at every free moment they can, that one of them is a future killer cop because there are white children in the class. 0.67

01:24:30.140 That, that, that happened. It's insanity. And then they're like, divisive. What do you mean? This is, this is anti-racist. No, it isn't. It's nothing of the kind.

01:24:39.760 So I, let's get back to connecting, uh, communities that don't know they're connected. So if you're at a school and you object to this stuff, but you're too scared to say anything publicly for good reason, how would it work? How would you get connected with other parents who feel the same?

01:24:59.740 Well, we're setting up chapters, um, all over the country right now. Um, so you could be, so for example, you know, I was speaking to a mother the other day at Brentwood and she called me, you know, she was crying, um, because of the things her eighth grade daughter is being taught about giving up her spot for, I mean, I can't even, the stories, it's just like the kind of the thing that you experienced at collegiate.

01:25:22.480 Right now that parent is thinking I'm alone in this. How do I find like-minded people? We want to help her connect to other like-minded people, a, to help her, to empower her in her own school. Because if there is a group of parents, often that can be much more effective. Or if she's feeling like this isn't the right place for her to find, um, places that are.

01:25:45.040 So we're at the, you know, listen, this was an organization that started eight weeks ago, you know, it's a startup that we're bootstrapping, but we feel that simply by connecting people and making them feel, making it feel clear that they're not alone, giving them the tools to raise a ruckus in their school, um, and seeing, seeing where that can go.

01:26:08.800 That's huge. That's huge. Because back to Bayan, who, who wrote, who founded the organization and wrote the op-ed in the journal, you know, he was, he was effectively told you might want to leave. And so if, if you're worried about that, and parents are, they, they love their kids. They worked hard to get into these schools. They're great schools. They know it's easy to say like, just leave, you know, but we also really wrestled with leaving. We, we loved our schools, loved them, loved our teachers.

01:26:35.980 We didn't want to leave, you know, but in the end, we just thought it was a fight that was not winnable. That's truly how I felt. We, and we had researched for a year, Barry, we had spoken to parents with way more money and way more power than we had who, and learned about the battles they fought and how little any of the, that meant to the schools.

01:26:55.060 You know, parents who pulled tens of millions in donations, you know, like they had given them one year and said, no more, no, don't care who had gone public. Don't care who had tried to shame them or even threatened litigation. Don't care. So like our conclusion was, it's not winnable. Anyway, my point is, um,

01:27:11.380 And those are parents with, with the means, right? Like, yeah, you want to be like, think about if you're a public school parent, you know, who is, you know, the incoming New York city schools, chancellor, for example, is a very vocal fan on Twitter of critical race theory.

01:27:26.720 Um, you know, um, you know, you think it can't get worse after Richard Carranza. Well, maybe it can. And right now there is nothing, there is no organization and no force trying to push back against this, no organization at all. So far as we can tell, we want to be that organization and, you know, power of it depends on how many people get involved. And, and we're thrilled with the reaction so far. And just really, really want to encourage everyone,

01:27:56.180 because right now this is a totally volunteer organization and we need your help.

01:28:00.320 Yes. Right. So feel free to donate too. But what, what I was going to say is if you find peers who feel the same as you, they can't throw all of you out. Like the schools need bodies and they can't throw all of you out. So if it's just one twisting in the wind, that's one thing. But if it's a group of parents saying we object, your, your power is much greater. Your security is greater. Your confidence is greater.

01:28:23.360 So this could be a clearing house to sort of try to get through all of that and connect people who are too afraid to talk to each other. And it's funny because, you know, they could be neighbors. They could be at, I'll guarantee you, they're going to be parents who are at the, at the, like the diversity and inclusion lecture, sitting right next to each other, being supportive, who are looking for people who want to push back on some of the crazier aspects of it, but don't know that the person sitting right next to them feels as they do.

01:28:48.240 That's exactly right. Um, because people are very, very closeted and scared to speak out against this because, you know, it's not just their reputation and their professional, um, you know, status that's at stake. It's the reputation of their children and they don't want to hurt their children. They don't want their children to, to have, um, you know, that to carry what is unfortunately a kind of moral stain, which is what happens when you are skeptical, um, of this ideology.

01:29:14.880 So, um, yeah, there's, there's so much more.

01:29:19.100 I'm here to tell you, having just gone through this, there are schools out there that don't see it that way, that understand what's being done to those children is inappropriate and that the schools have no business dividing the children like this and shaming the children like this over immutable characteristics on both sides, the white kids, the black kids, both of them.

01:29:37.160 Um, so they are out there. We've, we've found a couple and, and ours are not the only ones. It did take some effort, but do your homework, do your research. And if you can't move, if you can't find another school, then you got to fight. You just got to fight. You have no other choice at this point because it's your kid. It's your kid's emotional wellbeing in a day and age when suicide rates among teenagers are at an all time high. If you won't fight for yourself, fight for your child.

01:30:01.680 I totally agree. And I want to also say that, you know, one thing that struck me, I was at a sort of secret meeting that I write about in this piece that's coming out of, um, parents who are sort of organizing at Harvard Westlake, which is a really elite private school out here in LA. Um, you know, as you were saying, like collective action is, is what's necessary and what works.

01:30:22.600 And, you know, at the end of the conversation, one of them said, should we maybe just like try and make a new school? And I think that's exactly the kind of mentality that we need right now. Um, fight as hard as you can. You have every right to be in these places, you know, and you have every right to make sure that your child isn't being indoctrinated, but also like, you know,

01:30:46.160 if you're the kind of parent that can afford to send your child to a private school, you might also be the kind of parent with the connections and possibly the initiative to try and start new schools, um, that do live up, that give your child the kind of rigorous education, um, that you want.

01:31:02.600 And so again, like I said, on the last time we talked, Megan, and as we've talked about many times in between, I really believe that we're in a period of building. And I think that some of these parents are going to be so supercharged that they're going to do that kind of thing. And I'm really, really eager to see it.

01:31:21.540 Now, Barry, what about legal help?

01:31:22.720 Um, fair is getting in that game for sure. There's other initiatives that are also cropping up that I think will be announced in the next couple of weeks.

01:31:32.600 coming weeks that are going to be specifically and totally focused on, um, lawfare, but we have an amazing legal network. And, um, if you are someone in a public school, um, where you feel like your child is being discriminated against based on their race or their religion, as the mother in the Las Vegas suit, um, did, uh, and brought a lawsuit, um, we are absolutely here for you and you should reach out to us.

01:32:02.020 And we would love to connect you to our amazing legal network and see if you have a case.

01:32:06.620 Exactly. Because there are a lot of lawyers who are now volunteering time on this or who have benefactors paying for these lawsuits because they want to see a Supreme court case right now, given this bench, um, get handled.

01:32:19.240 So you don't, don't be deterred because you don't have the money to fight the legal battle. If you have a good case, contact fair and we'll help place you with somebody. Cause as Barry points out, I'm, I'm part of another initiative too. That's trying to work on getting legal teams together.

01:32:33.180 Um, and Chris Rufo has got one going. So there, there's a bunch of options that are now sprouting up that will be able to help people. And, and just to speak about that Las Vegas case. So it's a, it's a, it's a mother suing on behalf of her mixed race son, who is, he's mixed race, but he looks white and he's in an, an all black class. And she objected to the school trying to make him say what race he is, right? Like none of your damn business, right? Like I, I, I maybe doesn't want to say he's mixed race.

01:33:01.460 Um, and she's winning the court out there found that she had a likelihood of success on the merits, uh, because they were forcing her son to engage in compelled speech.

01:33:12.480 And that's a great ruling because when she goes into court down the line that she hasn't won yet, they're saying she has a likelihood of success. When she goes into court down the line that the, the, the court is going to have to evaluate now what the school's doing under what's called a strict scrutiny standard.

01:33:27.540 And that's very tough. That it's going to be very tough for the school to defend its behavior. So these are all good things that are happening that can, that can help everybody. And not just in schools, you get a couple of good rulings about this. When it comes to critical race theory, being shoved down the kids throats, it can translate into corporate America and beyond. All these are really important. And if you think you have a good case, get out there because there are smart, wealthy people who would like to help you see it through.

01:33:53.740 Yes. Come join fair. Uh, we would absolutely love to help you.

01:34:03.220 Our thanks to Barry Weiss and to Dan Wooten. Don't forget to tune into the show on Wednesday when we have Andrew Schultz. He's an amazing comedian. He's completely brilliant. He's been tearing up the internet with his bits on various issues. And I think he's somebody with whom I'm going to disagree on several things politically.

01:34:23.320 But we'll agree to disagree and have fun doing it. I think you're going to get a lot of laughs. So don't miss Wednesday's show. We'll talk then.

01:34:31.300 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - March 08, 2021

Oprah's Meghan and Harry Bombshell, with Dan Wootton, Plus Bari Weiss on Her ＂New ACLU＂｜ Ep. 73

Episode Stats

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The Megyn Kelly Show - March 08, 2021

Oprah's Meghan and Harry Bombshell, with Dan Wootton, Plus Bari Weiss on Her ＂New ACLU＂ ｜ Ep. 73

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Oprah's Meghan and Harry Bombshell, with Dan Wootton, Plus Bari Weiss on Her ＂New ACLU＂｜ Ep. 73