The Megyn Kelly Show - Outrageous Casey DeSantis Attacks, CNN's Whiny Newsroom, and Surviving Cancelation, with Jesse Kelly and Joseph Massey

00:00:00.420 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:12.000 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:16.120 An in-depth profile by The Atlantic's Tim Alberta on CNN.

00:00:21.820 It's led to a lot of consternation and backlash, and that is where we begin today.

00:00:26.540 The profile was on CNN chief Chris Licht. It was supposed to confirm his brilliance and

00:00:32.520 journalistic integrity. This is the way back for CNN, which is at the bottom of the barrel

00:00:37.960 in the ratings these days. Instead, this piece may be the death knell for Licht's career.

00:00:43.640 In the piece, Licht comes across as self-aggrandizing and insecure, uttering phrases to a reporter like,

00:00:50.200 I'm a machine, while pumping iron in the gym. My God. Can you imagine? What kind of a man does

00:00:57.600 that? A man oddly focused on the guy who held his job before him, Jeff Zucker, while lifting a weighted

00:01:04.300 pole at said gym, where he is said to be obsessed with his trainer, from whom he takes advice on

00:01:08.720 how to run CNN. By the way, the trainer is some far-left guy who prefers MSNBC. Licht is said to

00:01:14.540 have exclaimed, Jeff Zucker couldn't do this. What? The piece includes much criticism by Licht

00:01:21.040 of the CNN he inherited, and I actually happened to share those criticisms. How it hyped the CNN

00:01:27.720 COVID virus and the death toll to the point where it became absurd. How CNN joined the resistance

00:01:34.600 during the Trump years. How it became a player on the field during Trump's presidency, costing the

00:01:39.840 network its credibility and trust as a neutral journalistic outfit. Now, the CNN staffers are

00:01:46.800 reportedly in full revolt. Their little feelings, already tender from the CNN town hall where Trump

00:01:53.580 was platformed and spewed lies, are now extra hurt by the criticism they are receiving via the Atlantic

00:02:00.160 from their boss. Brian Stelter, who Licht justifiably fired as one of the most biased, worst offenders of

00:02:07.580 these sins, writes now that the COVID hype allegation really stung some inside CNN who maintain they did

00:02:15.120 no such thing. They did not hype it. Well, I watched the whole thing unfold. And if CNN was not hyping the

00:02:21.600 COVID death toll, et cetera, for ratings, then it must have actually been that hysterical. Either way,

00:02:28.660 it is an embarrassment and a journalistic fail for them. To call that a black eye would be the

00:02:34.020 understatement of the year. I'm with Licht all the way on those criticisms and his observations.

00:02:39.820 Obviously, he is right about their failures on Trump, too. That is why he was hired by the new

00:02:44.540 owners to try to right that ship. In fact, I found myself agreeing with much of what Licht found faulty

00:02:50.440 in the CNN he was inheriting after Jeff Zucker's ouster. It is clear that Licht fancies himself as a

00:02:57.840 mini Roger Ailes wannabe. But as I said on Friday, there's only one Roger Ailes and Chris Licht ain't

00:03:04.060 it. Roger's genius came to him authentically and organically as he grew up digging ditches in

00:03:10.500 Youngstown, Ohio. Licht, the piece points out, was raised in Connecticut. That's where I am. I'm not

00:03:16.300 judging it, but I'm just saying, please. The son of a doctor and a physician's assistant. His career

00:03:21.840 before CNN had him executive producing The Morning Show at CBS, not exactly known for its fair and

00:03:27.680 balanced approach to news. And then Stephen Colbert, his late night propaganda machine for

00:03:33.320 the left. This is not exactly man of middle America stuff. He has clearly read about Ailes and his

00:03:40.560 approach to the news and in trying to satisfy his bosses at Time Warner Discovery, who wants CNN to

00:03:46.520 return to its nonpartisan roots, is trying to act the part. But you cannot imitate your way to

00:03:52.400 greatness. For one thing, Ailes new talent. How to find them, how to manage them, how to make them

00:03:59.040 household names, and then how to manage their egos once they became those household names. Better than

00:04:04.400 anyone in the news business. Licht? His biggest accomplishments so far seem to be casting Don Lemon

00:04:10.680 in that disastrous morning show on CNN, which has already basically imploded, and gotten Lemon fired.

00:04:15.880 And elevating Caitlin Collins as his next big star. Collins seems like a fine reporter with

00:04:22.840 potential, but she doesn't have anything close to the it factor that has thrust many others into

00:04:29.260 cable news stardom. Chris Licht would have been better off leaving her in the White House reporting

00:04:33.240 gig, letting her cement her reporting chops instead of tying her to the morning anchor desk with Lemon

00:04:38.860 and Poppy Harlow, where she exudes approximately zero warmth. Next up, he gave Collins the

00:04:45.760 high wire act of trying to manage Donald Trump in a CNN town hall. That, too, was an utter fail,

00:04:52.840 as anyone who's watched Trump for two minutes prior to that town hall could have and did predict.

00:05:00.440 Now, he has tarnished his only rising star at the network, just as he gave her the nine o'clock

00:05:05.720 slot on CNN's primetime. Well done, sir.

00:05:08.460 In reading the Atlantic piece and now the follow-up reporting by The New York Times over the past few

00:05:14.560 days, The Daily Beast, Brian Stelter's writing, and then today CNN's own Oliver Darcy in his

00:05:20.280 Reliable Sources newsletter, he took that over from Stelter, what is clear is that the CNN staff

00:05:25.540 cannot stand Chris Licht. As he brags in the piece about his new svelte body allegedly being a machine,

00:05:32.480 he fails to disclose that he apparently did it with Ozempic, according to The New York Post,

00:05:37.960 which quotes several people to whom Licht has apparently been admitting for years now that

00:05:43.640 he's been using the drug. As he takes CNN staffers and anchors out to dinner to get to know them,

00:05:49.000 he obsessively checks his phone reading press coverage about himself. This is a guy who seems

00:05:55.940 more focused on promoting himself in the press than any of the stories or the staff on CNN.

00:06:03.940 He wants to inspire greatness in his employees and young journalists, but keeps repeating the same

00:06:09.540 tired, uninsightful lines, per Tim Alberta. Like, we can disagree on whether we like rain or not,

00:06:16.900 but not on whether it's actually raining outside. Okay, go! Let's go, team!

00:06:23.700 The news is so much more complex than the than that these days, as evidenced in his CNN Trump town

00:06:31.760 hall, right? Where where his star reporter taking on Trump stated as a matter of fact,

00:06:37.480 it is raining outside that the 2020 election wasn't rigged. Really? Tell it to The New York Post

00:06:44.620 and its audience who did not get to read the Hunter Biden story after it was suppressed by Twitter and big

00:06:49.980 tech, etc. We could go on on the rigged point and have no need to belabor it again.

00:06:56.660 Licht is now moving his office from the 22nd floor to the newsroom like Jeff Zucker did. But that is no

00:07:03.300 answer. The children don't need moment to moment access to daddy. The chumminess of Zucker with his

00:07:10.320 CNN staff was actually a problem, not an accomplishment. He wanted to be liked. He didn't

00:07:16.560 want to lead. Sometimes being the boss means you have to ruffle some feathers. You have to treat the

00:07:21.520 staff like underlings. You have to fire people, right? Like Jeffrey Toobin, like Don Lemon, like

00:07:28.120 Chris Cuomo, all these things that Jeff Zucker was so reluctant to do. And later we found out why he had

00:07:33.260 his own problems in the Me Too department. But it is evidence of the fact that Licht does not know how

00:07:39.400 to appease his minions. He's flailing. And the minions are apparently done with the machine.

00:07:47.660 Joining me now, one of our favorites, Jesse Kelly, is author of the brand new book,

00:07:52.500 The Anti-Communist Manifesto, which is out today. He is host of The Jesse Kelly Show.

00:07:58.520 And also, I'm right. Jesse, welcome back and congrats on the book.

00:08:03.760 Thank you, Megan. This is old news stuff for you, but it's the first time for me. So yes,

00:08:09.040 I'm an author now, very world famous author, a big celebrity now, Megan.

00:08:13.140 Yes, I hear you're getting wonderful blurbs and reviews by Anonymous,

00:08:17.700 tweeted out by Jesse Kelly on the Jesse Kelly Twitter feed.

00:08:21.260 Yes, I actually reviewed the book myself on the back of the book as well and just gave credit to

00:08:26.240 myself there. I wanted to make sure those reviews were just the way I wanted them, Megan.

00:08:31.240 Perfectly on brand. I love it. So let's kick it off there. CNN, now they're in a new spiral over

00:08:37.980 the Atlantic piece. They're mad that the boss, apparently he's not sharing these criticisms

00:08:42.340 directly with the staff. He's only telling them to Tim Alberta of the Atlantic. And here are just

00:08:48.180 some of the details. On Monday morning yesterday, in the wake of this in-depth, I mean, I showed this

00:08:52.760 on Friday. Look at, look at this. My team printed out the Atlantic article. Look at how thick this

00:08:57.140 thing is. I mean, this is like this. It went on and on and on. It was like a book. They've got their

00:09:03.120 own book coming out today. So he held a call with CNN staffers. Apparently people phoned in. They were

00:09:07.740 so anxious to hear what he was going to say about this. Says he is staying put, that he wants to earn

00:09:12.640 back their trust. Reportedly said, this news cycle and my role in it overshadowed the incredible week of

00:09:18.340 reporting we just had and distracted from the work of every single journalist at CNN. And for that,

00:09:22.600 I am sorry. I should not be in the news unless it's taking arrows for you. Your work is what

00:09:29.480 should be written about. I will fight like hell to win back your trust. This is all just drivel.

00:09:37.960 This isn't going to do it. This guy, he's been to too much therapy, trying to learn exactly what to say

00:09:43.060 or read too much Roger Ailes. You know, you are the message books, which are great,

00:09:46.860 but only work if you're really a believer, if you're actually a disciple of Ailes.

00:09:52.120 He's acting and he doesn't know what he's doing. Your thoughts on it?

00:09:55.740 Yeah. This is something I'm actually struggling with society-wide right now, Megan. I don't know,

00:10:02.100 maybe you are too. Maybe your listeners are too. When you picture CEOs or these big shot people,

00:10:08.900 senators even, CEOs, senators, these people who are important, for lack of a better way to put it,

00:10:14.780 in society. Even if I picture it ones that I disagree with, I still picture people who are

00:10:20.760 highly intelligent, relatively emotionally put together. You know, you, you picture somebody

00:10:26.900 who is accomplished and mature and put together, but I'm having a hard time adjusting to this modern

00:10:33.460 society where you can rise to be the chief of CEO or chief of CNN. And really you're just a big child

00:10:40.700 and you're texting with your life coach and you want to know if you had enough soy that day and

00:10:45.720 are your, is your pH perfectly? And so I picture the head of CNN as maybe being someone I disagree

00:10:50.860 with, but being highly intelligent and switched on and ready to go. But because we have such a society

00:10:56.420 that has run away from meritocracy for too long, that now you can rise to the highest levels and

00:11:02.320 probably will by being a total goober. And that's, that's what I see when I see Chris. Like,

00:11:07.260 does that make sense? I, that's what I'm feeling everywhere. It does. That's the problem. So it's

00:11:11.780 like having grown up under Roger Ailes professionally. I, I know what, look, this isn't to excuse the

00:11:17.660 things that ultimately brought Roger down, but I know what a leader looks like. I know somebody who

00:11:22.160 can actually make a decision without consulting some focus group or poll testing or, you know,

00:11:28.360 staffers around him or even somebody above him. Cause the piece pens spend a lot of time talking

00:11:32.700 about how he's really just executing the orders of the new owners and the guy in particular named

00:11:37.600 David Zasloff. Um, so he's just, he's a puppet. This, this is like, this guy's not a leader. If

00:11:44.260 all he's doing is, you know, throwing darts at the board and just trying to say like, we need to be

00:11:48.180 more fair and balanced. We got it wrong the last time he needs to have a vision. And what, and the

00:11:52.120 main problem is Jesse, apart from the failure to lead and understand leadership, I don't have to tell

00:11:56.280 you that as a military guy, um, CNN's identity crisis starts well before Chris Licks enter into

00:12:03.440 this picture. How, how do you regain any viewers when you still have all these biased hosts in the

00:12:11.280 chairs from which they betrayed the American people to begin with? I think they're going to go through

00:12:17.720 the same thing. Bud Light is going through right now, Megan. I I've said that Bud Light's damage to its

00:12:22.620 brand will be generation. It'll take a generation to fix it. CNN's going through the same thing

00:12:27.400 because of how they conducted themselves, as you just pointed out under Donald Trump. And the

00:12:32.260 problem is these, these news organizations, they got hooked on the Trump drug meeting. I mean,

00:12:37.180 everyone knows that our job, your job, my job, everyone's job. My job is to be interesting. I do

00:12:41.700 a radio show. I do a TV show. I want people to listen. People have a million options. I want them to

00:12:46.320 listen to me. I have to be interesting. CNN has a job to be interesting. Well, Trump is so interesting,

00:12:51.120 whether you love or hate him, that people were watching CNN, hate watching it. So to watch them

00:12:56.000 trash Trump every day. So they spent four years, not improving, not bringing in top tier talent,

00:13:01.420 not bringing in people who are interesting or charismatic. You have Brian, you had Brian

00:13:05.540 Stelter waddling into the CNN offices for four straight years. What are you doing? That guy

00:13:10.720 shouldn't be on television, but you didn't use that four years to improve because you could put any

00:13:16.220 idiot, you could have put a gerbil on TV to trash Trump and people would watch CNN for it.

00:13:20.700 Well, eventually Trump goes back to Mar-a-Lago to play golf. And now you're stuck with this list

00:13:25.380 of losers here. You haven't developed top talent. You haven't found top talent. How many talented

00:13:30.140 news anchors have you seen locally nationwide, Megan? They're all over the place. There's talented

00:13:35.320 journalists everywhere. You didn't go find them. You didn't use the scouting team. You're stuck with

00:13:40.320 the same group of losers. And now you want to change your image, but you have all the same losers in

00:13:44.660 the building. You should probably fire everybody is what they should do.

00:13:47.480 Well, here's the other thing. So the difference between what Chris Lick is trying to do with the

00:13:51.460 CNN staff and what Roger Ailes did at Fox News that made it such a juggernaut is Roger picked the right

00:13:56.400 people. Like he plucked Sean Hannity out of doing, I think it was local radio in Oklahoma, right? Very

00:14:01.920 small market. Heard him, plucked him out of obscurity, made the guy a star. O'Reilly had been hosting a

00:14:07.360 current affair, right? It was either a current affair or inside edition. I always get those two confused.

00:14:11.220 Um, and he gave him an opportunity in the prime time. We go on, you know, I, I had done one year

00:14:17.640 part time at the ABC affiliate in Washington, DC when he hired me. So what, how did those people become

00:14:25.140 well-known people like under Roger Ailes? And would they all have had the same result under Chris Lick

00:14:30.460 or Jeff Zucker? No, we wouldn't have because what Roger did was he hired the right people whose values he

00:14:37.140 understood and whose potential star talent he could judge. And then he let them loose. Then he

00:14:41.760 said, go be yourself, do your thing. I'm not going to interfere with you. Like I believe in you. And

00:14:46.880 of course we understood the mission of Fox news channel was not to put the New York times on the,

00:14:49.860 on the air. What Chris Lick is trying to do is take a bunch of avowed leftists and make them fair

00:14:56.080 and balanced reporters now and try to stop them from being their selves, right? Being themselves.

00:15:01.560 He's trying to undo the programming that Jeff Zucker let loose and realizing that what he really had

00:15:08.660 was a bunch of wannabe MSNBC anchors. And now those horses have left the barn and Chris Lick

00:15:13.600 is trying to shove them back in the barn and fool the American people that they never left the barn

00:15:18.280 and that they're totally fair and balanced on all issues. And you should trust them because now

00:15:22.140 they're going to say the right things. None of it works. It's a recipe for disaster. And the ratings

00:15:26.220 are showing it. They are showing it. Corporate America feels it the same way. This is what has

00:15:32.500 happened, Megan, when you're bringing all these communists into your corporation, you're bringing

00:15:37.200 in foot soldiers, you're bringing in religious zealots, and you're going to now approach Don

00:15:41.840 Lemon and tell Don Lemon to be more non-biased. Don Lemon can't be more non-biased on top of being a

00:15:47.780 total world-class piece of crap. Don Lemon's a foot soldier. Don Lemon sees himself as a warrior for

00:15:53.760 the cause. He can't be non-biased. It's not in his being. It would be like approaching a devout

00:15:59.140 born-again Christian and telling that person, hey, I really need you to be super pro-Muslim today.

00:16:04.940 All right? That person can't do it. It's not in their nature. You can't walk in. And the corporations,

00:16:11.420 as I pointed out, are doing this all across the country, and they're suffering for this

00:16:15.560 for many different reasons. I actually write about this in the book as well. They bring in these

00:16:20.560 poisonous people, these people straight out of college, or because they went to Harvard or

00:16:24.700 Stanford, and they're true believers, right? They're true believers in the leftist cause.

00:16:29.280 And then these corporations get frustrated when they torpedo them from the inside. Well,

00:16:33.740 you're not bringing in the newest smart grad from Harvard like it's 1980. You're bringing in a

00:16:38.800 communist foot soldier. You can't have a well-run corporation with these people in your corporation.

00:16:45.400 It's like inviting an inoperable brain tumor into your office and then wondering why you're dying.

00:16:52.280 You've got to start cutting these people out and being a lot more aggressive with censoring these

00:16:56.800 people out of your business. You can't make it. They won't make it. All it takes is one of these

00:17:00.300 people to blow up your corporation, Megan, let alone if your whole Friday night lineup is these

00:17:04.860 dorks. You're screwed.

00:17:07.140 Especially, I'm going to give you a quote that really underlines this in one second, but especially

00:17:10.660 because Trump is running again. Trump right now looks very much like he's going to be the

00:17:16.100 Republican nominee. And we'll get to the latest polls that just dropped. And so it would be one

00:17:21.720 thing to say to, let's say, the Anderson Coopers of the world, who prior to Jeff Zucker and Trump

00:17:25.720 was doing a decent job of towing the line, of not letting his politics dictate every facet of his

00:17:31.780 coverage. But then Jeff Zucker let the freak flag fly. Like, you go. You be as liberal as you really

00:17:37.520 are. Get Trump, be part of the resistance, which Cooper did, as well as all the primetime lineup.

00:17:44.160 And now, you know, now they're trying to ask him to be something else. Maybe Cooper could do it.

00:17:48.280 Maybe Cooper could resort, revert back to the pre-Trump Anderson Cooper. But Trump is out there again.

00:17:55.220 He can't just be fair because it's like Mitt Romney running, who liberals can love. It's Trump

00:18:03.660 again. There's zero chance, you tell me, of them containing their bias in trying to talk about

00:18:11.020 this guy. Just look at the meltdown after the CNN town hall.

00:18:17.200 Donald Trump, the hatred of him on a broader scale has done more to damage this nation than

00:18:24.560 if Trump was the antichrist than he could have ever done himself. And a big part of that is what it's

00:18:30.000 done to the media in this country. Even Jake Tapper, Megan, speaking of CNN, you brought up

00:18:34.600 Anderson Cooper. Jake Tapper, he's never been Rachel Maddow, right? He was never Don Lemon. He was

00:18:40.360 never one of these far left kooks. Now, he was not one of my people, but he's never been totally a

00:18:46.280 nut job. But Donald Trump, you can see it. It seeps out of his pores like an angst-ridden 12-year-old

00:18:52.380 girl. He cannot stand him to a level that he can't possibly speak about him. These people have

00:18:59.800 convinced themselves that Trump is Hitler. They have. And so it would be like you or I trying to

00:19:06.400 objectively cover Hitler. Now, that's an absurd comparison, obviously, Trump and Hitler. It's

00:19:11.460 ridiculous. But these people are so ingrained with their own mental illness that that's what

00:19:16.080 they've convinced themselves of. So how could Megan Kelly sit down and ever have even a little

00:19:20.840 bit of objectivity if she was covering Hitler? How could I? Right? You can't. You find the person to

00:19:26.760 be so despicable that you can't even speak about them without coming across, without all the hatred

00:19:32.700 and bitterness coming across. That's how they all are with Trump. And as a result, they've alienated

00:19:38.580 half the country that likes Trump. And it looks terrible every day. They can't. Yeah. They see it

00:19:43.940 as a true character defining moment, like before him or against him. And there's no neutral ground,

00:19:48.500 even as a reporter. And so if you're not openly working against him, you're evil. You're bad.

00:19:52.560 You're part of it. You're you're complicit in Hitler's rise. In this case, Trump's rise.

00:19:58.080 I'll say this about Jake Tapper. I always defend him. Yes, I'm friendly with him. So that's part of

00:20:02.300 the reason I like him personally. But I agree with you that he doesn't like Trump and that he's shown

00:20:07.080 that on the air. But at least I'll say this for Jake Tapper. He loves our military. He understands

00:20:13.120 more about middle America than I think any other anchor there and tries to do stories that reflect that.

00:20:17.920 And he will push back. You know, when he sees something bad for Joe Biden, he'll call it out.

00:20:23.580 So I this is one of the reasons why I say of the CNN anchors, I think he's the fairest and he's

00:20:27.940 probably the most rehabilitatable. But in his defense, he he spent four years under under Jeff

00:20:35.000 Zucker being told, get him, get him, get him on the Trump thing. And that's that's why I blame

00:20:39.700 Jeff Zucker for all of this. Jeff Zucker is now in The New York Times in this piece that hit over the

00:20:45.080 weekend. Clearly trying to say Chris Lick sucks. And I'm really the one who had the answers. And

00:20:50.040 all the CNNers are calling me saying how bad he is. But Jeff Zucker is the one who ruined CNN.

00:20:57.100 He is the one. Chris Lick didn't ruin it. He's just struggling to fix it again. And back to the

00:21:03.000 point I was going to tell you on this, like what you were saying about hiring the communists and

00:21:07.420 and like, how are you going to change them? You needed a new cast because the communists are going

00:21:11.760 going to communist. This is from the Atlantic piece. So the reporter, Tim Alberta, was given

00:21:18.680 extraordinary access to the anchors, to Chris Lick, to the producing staff. And he was there when

00:21:23.480 Don Lemon was rehearsing that morning show with the two female anchors and got a chance to talk to Don

00:21:28.000 Lemon. So he says, I asked Lemon whether his approach to news meshed with Licks. Specifically,

00:21:36.460 I mentioned the outrage porn conversation that Alberta had had with Lick. Lick thought CNN was

00:21:42.960 too immersed in outrage porn. If everything's an 11, how can there ever be an 11? Right? And Lemon

00:21:50.980 squinted at me, writes Tim Alberta. Here it is. Quote, some people may want to qualify it as outrage

00:21:57.720 porn, but there was a lot to be outraged for these last few years, he said. There was a tweet or a

00:22:04.480 statement or an action or something that was outrageous a few times a day for five, six years.

00:22:09.080 What we were doing is we were fighting for democracy, Jesse. Okay, here it is. We were fighting to set

00:22:18.300 the record straight on us being attacked and called fake. That may have put us back on our heels and made

00:22:26.280 us a bit more aggressive with calling it out, but it doesn't mean it was outrage porn.

00:22:31.860 I think he nailed it there at the end, Megan. That's something that you and I actually haven't discussed

00:22:39.020 today. You and I have discussed it before is the arrogance and self-importance of these people a little

00:22:43.460 bit. Did you hear what he said? He was calling us fake. These people, they go into journalism and they

00:22:48.960 see themselves on TV and you know what that's like. And people are like, ah, Megan, I love you. And people

00:22:54.780 were asking, but hey, can you take a picture with me? And you eventually get to feel, if you're not

00:22:58.860 careful, you eventually get to feel like you are actually something important. And Don Lemon gets

00:23:03.360 to be on CNN and he's just better than everyone. And he's important because he's on television.

00:23:07.980 How dare you call me fake when I'm a journalist on TV? These people just think too highly of

00:23:13.580 themselves. A lot of this stuff comes down, I think, to basic arrogance. They couldn't stand it

00:23:18.160 that someone finally came along and treated them like crap, which is what they are. But they've never

00:23:23.480 been told that before. They've been told they're defenders of democracy. And remember how many times

00:23:28.080 they've compared themselves to firemen? And who was that one? I forget who this was,

00:23:31.880 compared themselves to Navy SEALs. Like Navy SEALs were the tip of the spear when it comes to

00:23:36.920 defending democracy. You're outside of your mind. You're a blogger on television. Let's not make

00:23:42.180 too much of it here. It's so true. And the piece, of course, Lemon, of course, got fired and he reveals

00:23:48.300 that Lemon had been threatening behind the scenes. I will go get Al Sharpton and Benjamin Crump to say,

00:23:54.520 to make this a referendum on CNN's whiteness, if you fire me. He's like the most. And now,

00:24:01.180 just today, it was in page six. Don Lemon's back. He is down, but not out. He's going to be hosting.

00:24:05.600 And I'm like, what? What, a show on News Nation? You know, like whatever, where you expect him to

00:24:08.840 pop up. No, he's going to be hosting some event for people who are both black and gay. It's not just

00:24:16.180 like raise money. Okay. Perfect. Perfect. So good luck, CNN. You're not going to have anywhere near

00:24:24.540 the success of Jesse Kelly's book, which we're going to talk about. Because one of the main

00:24:28.540 things in the book is something that's near and dear to my own heart. And that is how colleges and

00:24:34.100 beyond, but especially the university system and now the younger school systems too, want to control

00:24:39.760 our language. They want to control what comes out of our mouths. It's well beyond political

00:24:45.840 correctness. And today, I don't, we have, I should have counted them. We've got maybe three,

00:24:52.300 four stories in the news about people getting canceled because they didn't submit Jesse. They

00:24:58.420 would not submit. Here's one. This is out of Kellogg, Idaho. Student barred from graduation ceremony

00:25:06.220 after stating there are only two genders. So this kid, um, his name is Travis Lohr, 18 years old,

00:25:15.420 was not allowed to walk through his own graduation after he departed from pre-approved remarks during

00:25:20.140 an assembly speech, offering advice for underclassmen. What he said was quote, guys are

00:25:24.580 guys and girls are girls. There is no in between. So kicked out, can't walk in graduation. Uh, and then

00:25:30.060 on top of that, this is, this is the real rub. He says a job offer that he had to fight fires for the

00:25:37.040 forest service out there in Idaho was rescinded, was rescinded. This is just disgusting. And this

00:25:44.460 is, this is the point of your book that it's all part of the plan. Language has to be controlled.

00:25:49.200 That's a piece of the, the left's approach to managing all these controversial issues.

00:25:53.720 That's how the communists have done it forever, Megan. And it's, it's wild when you see the

00:25:58.900 parallels, which I do a lot in the book of history, like the Bolsheviks and the Chinese

00:26:03.120 and how it directly connects to what they do today. They build these language fences around us

00:26:09.700 and they're always closing in. So to, to censor what you can and can't say, and they're always

00:26:15.160 changing. It's crazy. When you read some of the historical stories and things like that,

00:26:19.560 I put in there of people who were, they would say something that, that was approved language.

00:26:23.660 At the time approved by everyone. You know, the communist said, this is okay. This is the

00:26:27.100 language you use. And then to keep people on their toes. And as a method of really control

00:26:32.620 and power more than anything else, they will wake up one day and decide that that language is no

00:26:37.240 longer acceptable. And then they'll go back to you using language that was acceptable at the time.

00:26:42.820 And they'll say, why were you using unacceptable language off to the gulag to you men becoming women

00:26:48.500 and women becoming men. That was not even a thing like 15 minutes ago. It seriously wasn't even a

00:26:54.760 thing in 2010. I, I understand trainings existed then, but it was very rare. It's not something you

00:27:00.360 talked about. It certainly wasn't something that dominated the news. Now your doctor will tell you

00:27:06.000 that men can become women. The, the, the latest Supreme court justice basically said the same thing.

00:27:12.440 God, I don't know what a woman is. Kid gets denied a job fighting fires and walking in his graduation

00:27:18.080 because he wouldn't say the newest thing that just came around five minutes ago. And I've tried to

00:27:24.000 explain this to people. I actually explained it in the book that they, people look at all this

00:27:28.320 training nonsense. Now this madness with kids mutilating themselves and stuff. And they think,

00:27:33.280 man, this is so crazy. This is so evil and crazy. Gosh, these guys, they've reached the end of the

00:27:39.080 road. And I'm trying to explain to everybody, there is no end of the road. This, the, all this

00:27:44.340 transsexual stuff, this will be yesterday's news. Five years from now, there'll be something new

00:27:48.660 and worse because they, they never stop because they can't stop. It's an endless path of destruction.

00:27:54.640 Let's, as Lennon said, revolution without end, the revolution can never stop.

00:27:59.040 This reminds me of when I was, um, I don't know, a sophomore at Syracuse university back in the

00:28:03.080 olden days. Um, I referred to, I said, he's a black author and she, and the professor stopped me

00:28:08.900 and said, it's African-American now. It's like, I believe you need to refer to black people as

00:28:14.660 African-American. So I was like, Oh, okay. I didn't know, whatever. Fine. This African-American

00:28:18.880 author. And then, and now you look at it today, a lot of people find that term offensive and we're

00:28:23.740 back to black, but it has to be capitalized, but you don't capitalize the W and what, okay, whatever,

00:28:28.060 who the hell can keep up? Let me give you another one. Um, via Fox news news, a university of

00:28:33.220 Cincinnati student is now speaking out after her professor allegedly failed her failed her Jesse

00:28:40.140 for using the term biological women. Olivia Krolczyk says her gender studies teacher gave her a zero

00:28:50.120 on her essay proposal about transgender athletes competing in women's sports because in the proposal,

00:28:56.760 she used the term biological women. The response from the professor reads as follows quote, Olivia,

00:29:02.920 this is a solid proposal. However, the terms biological women are exclusionary and are not

00:29:10.120 allowed in this course as they further reinforce heteronormativity. Please reassess your topic

00:29:16.800 and edit it to focus on women's rights, not just females. And I will regrade women's rights,

00:29:25.340 not just female. You must accept that in the women category are the trans people,

00:29:31.300 which therefore undermines the entire thesis that this university of Cincinnati student was

00:29:36.640 trying to take a look at. This is what scares me about where we're going. Megan is what have we

00:29:43.480 just talked about in the last five minutes, the people who are proclaiming this new insanity to be

00:29:48.080 real. That's a university professor. It's not just university of Cincinnati, by the way, as everyone's

00:29:52.520 seen, this is Columbia law. This is Stanford. This is Harvard. These. So, okay. So we have a Supreme court

00:29:58.100 justice. We have professors. We have the president of the United States of America, one of the two

00:30:03.540 major parties and half of the other low T loser GOP party will admit to that, that this is something

00:30:09.300 you can do. You can just change the gender you were born with. It's not that we have nutters in our

00:30:14.520 society. Every society has nutters. That's, that's, that's, that's the way the human beings are. It's that

00:30:20.460 our nutters run our society. It's become institutionalized. Your doctor in the future, shoot, probably now,

00:30:28.220 but in the future for sure, will not be allowed to practice medicine or graduate medical school unless

00:30:34.140 your doctor asserts that the 12 year old boy can cut his penis off and become a woman. That is so beyond

00:30:40.840 absurd. But again, it's not some nut job on the street corner out in front of my studio, Megan, screaming at the, at the

00:30:47.340 sky that men can become women. These are the leaders of our institutions in our society. It shows

00:30:53.200 how far gone we are and how crazy it really is. It's really disturbing. I'll give you just a couple

00:30:59.840 of examples because we like to stay on top of the news on this stuff. Uh, out of Canada, they've really

00:31:04.260 lost their minds. Student arrested at a Catholic school after saying there are two genders. Josh

00:31:09.960 Alexander was suspended this past November over comments he made saying there are two genders. He was

00:31:15.380 told he could not return to class unless he recanted that position. He decided to return anyway to get the

00:31:23.980 education he was paying for at this Catholic school and they had him arrested and charged with

00:31:32.600 trespassing. That, I mean, that's, it's too much. It's too much. And lest you think it couldn't happen in

00:31:39.360 America in Massachusetts, uh, Boise's setback. This is a, uh, headline for the daily mail Boise's setback

00:31:46.220 in free speech lawsuit against school over two genders, a shirt, a Boston judge ruled that 12 year

00:31:53.260 old Liam Morrison cannot wear a shirt that reads. There are only two genders while the case over the

00:31:58.000 garment is still being decided. Thank God for the Alliance defending freedom. They filed suit on his

00:32:02.020 behalf after he was denied the right to wear the shirt at all at school. Thank God there are warriors

00:32:06.020 like Alliance defending freedom. I'm telling you, like, if I wanted to hang back out my legal,

00:32:10.480 my law shingle, I'd go join these guys and help them in these battles. They got another one.

00:32:14.800 There's a professor who refused to say the preferred pronouns in his class and a lawsuit

00:32:20.160 was filed against him as I recall, or either way, he was challenged and threatened with his livelihood

00:32:24.920 for refusing to go along with it. And more and more, Jesse, we're seeing state laws that say in the

00:32:30.940 workplace setting, you basically have to use the preferred pronouns. You have to, or it creates

00:32:36.640 hostile work environment. And even if there's not a law in the light of the Supreme court decision

00:32:40.980 that Gorsuch joined the, you know, the, the Trump appointee joined, uh, Bostock, they saying you can't

00:32:48.100 discriminate against trans people in hiring. They can make a claim now that if you don't use their

00:32:52.560 preferred pronouns in the workplace setting, you have violated the law. They've been sneaking all

00:32:59.380 these things into statutes and judge made law and so on for years. Now, their whole goal was to stay

00:33:05.980 under the radar while they captured society. And now we're starting to see all the results of it.

00:33:12.760 The two scariest things they're taking over and maybe have taken already, Megan,

00:33:17.260 are the medical profession and the legal profession, as you just pointed out. It's one thing for

00:33:21.480 someone you were, you and I to get in an argument with somebody about this stuff. It's another thing

00:33:25.880 entirely to have this stuff written into law, basically making me a criminal for disagreeing

00:33:32.800 with the insanity of yours. You just saw, I mean, everyone talks about New York city and the crime

00:33:36.800 problem they have right now, how they're turning rapists or murderers loose, and they're hurting

00:33:40.960 more people. But they did find that one dastardly criminal, Megan, they tracked him down and they

00:33:45.980 threw the cuffs on him and he went to jail. What did this guy do? They tracked down the homeless guy

00:33:51.080 who took his pants down and took a CNN on a pride flag. That guy was immediately charged with hate

00:33:57.220 crimes, immediately charged with hate crimes. This stuff is being ingrained into the legal profession,

00:34:03.440 which is why they're going after the law school. So all these vicious little monsters who will be

00:34:07.880 judges and prosecutors one day will prosecute this stuff. Everything they're doing is designed right

00:34:14.900 now to turn any opposition thought into enemy of the state and illegal thought. Everything they're

00:34:22.860 doing from nationally, statewide, anywhere where the blue areas that control things, the end goal is to

00:34:29.240 make you an enemy of the state to justify using state power against you. That's what they really want

00:34:36.300 to do, just like communists have always done. They want to send the FBI to your door for opposing the

00:34:42.180 policies of Democrats. They want it to be legal. They want to declare you an enemy of the state.

00:34:46.920 That's why the FBI is cooking the books. That's why all this hate crime law when it comes to the

00:34:51.740 rainbow brigade is getting ingrained into law in blue states. They want to send the cops after you to

00:34:56.920 arrest you for what you believe. And it's hard for Americans to accept that. It's true. If you don't

00:35:01.640 believe it, just look at New York City, where a few years back they passed a law making it

00:35:07.060 unlawful to refer to someone in this country illegally as an illegal alien. It was that if

00:35:15.020 your intent was to be cruel or to harass. So it's it's this is America. If I want to call somebody an

00:35:22.520 illegal alien, I can do it no matter what's in my heart. Illegal alien, illegal alien, illegal alien.

00:35:27.480 It's fine. You're offended too bad. That's your business. And this is the point of your book,

00:35:32.160 the anti-communist manifest manifesto. I just want to read this because you raise this point.

00:35:37.000 You talk about how by classifying words is correct or incorrect. The communist is limiting the scope

00:35:41.520 of acceptable speech. If he doesn't want you to say something, he will forbid you from using the

00:35:45.320 words needed to say it. He's building walls around you and boxing you in. For example,

00:35:49.700 it becomes much more difficult to oppose illegal immigration if you cannot use the term illegal.

00:35:55.260 We live in a country where the language we are being told to use no longer has any basis in

00:35:59.560 objective reality. And what I like about the book is you give in these chapters,

00:36:03.820 quote, action items. The ones here include eliminate politically correct language from

00:36:09.000 your vocabulary, even if it makes the people you communicate with uncomfortable. Ignore name

00:36:15.040 calling and charges of racism, sexism or homophobia, transphobia. They're meaningless.

00:36:20.720 Don't apologize. It only encourages the mob and embrace cancel culture. It's a powerful weapon.

00:36:26.080 We should be using it against our enemy. I want to talk about that last one. There's a debate within

00:36:31.440 conservative circles on whether that's true. Stand by. That's what we call a tease.

00:36:36.000 Jesse Kelly stays with us and we pick it up there on whether the right needs to be doing more canceling.

00:36:45.340 Cancel culture. There was a debate on this a couple of years ago on Candace Owens podcast

00:36:51.380 on whether this should be used. I think Candace was in favor of it, at least with respect to Chrissy

00:36:56.840 Teigen at the time, who she was going after. Yay, go Candace. And I and there are others in the

00:37:02.340 conservative movement who do not think this is a good tool for the right, that this is only what

00:37:06.920 leftists do. I'm much more with you. I feel like what like what is this? We're going to take the high

00:37:13.380 road while they just keep slicing everybody with a right wing opinion.

00:37:16.740 Well, this is why we've had too much conservatism on the right, Megan, and not near enough

00:37:21.300 anti-communism. That's why I'm an anti-communist. The traditional conservatism, and I sympathize with

00:37:26.960 this because I'm 41 years old. It's been this way my whole life, has been thinking that we're in a

00:37:32.620 debate, of course, a serious debate, but we're in a serious debate with Democrats. And in the end,

00:37:38.140 hey, we all want what's best, right? Hey, we all agree that we all want America to be good. And we all

00:37:44.260 want everything to be prosperous and we want everyone to be happy. And that's where conservatism

00:37:49.260 has failed so painfully so, because we're not sharing a country with people who share our values

00:37:56.240 at all in any way. And now I'm not talking about every citizen, talking about the people who lead

00:38:01.420 our society. We are sharing a country with people who are trying to burn it down, not accidentally,

00:38:07.500 not a whoopsie. They're trying to burn it down. And when you're dealing with religious zealots,

00:38:12.540 the only thing religious zealots understand is fear and pain. I don't like cancel culture. I think

00:38:18.140 that's freaking horrible that you can be canceled for something you say. They've tried to do it to

00:38:21.940 me a thousand times because I'm offensive, of course, but that you should be canceled for something

00:38:26.500 you say, lose your job for something you say, your kids can't go to school anymore. I've always

00:38:31.240 thought that's a terrible place to be. I don't want to be there, but I know this. The communist has no

00:38:36.580 intention of stopping ever by my polite example to him. He's going to try to destroy me every day,

00:38:43.540 and I will say things like, that's not who we are. That's not our principles. We're above that.

00:38:48.200 He's not inspired by that. He thinks that's weak and pathetic. Either he will fear that being visited

00:38:55.200 back on him, or he will never stop. Again, think of the communist you share a country with more like

00:39:00.860 an Islamic jihadist than anything else. Some guy who's got a bomb strapped to his chest going to blow

00:39:06.820 up a school is not going to look at you and how good you are and be inspired by your example. You will

00:39:13.740 stop that guy from blowing up the school using fear or pain, and he will understand nothing else

00:39:19.280 because they're religious zealots. It's a religion. Until people understand it's a religion and not

00:39:23.560 politics, they will never be able to take these people on, and most of the right still thinks it's about

00:39:28.400 politics. I saw you tweeting out about the New Mexico governor signing into law a bill that would

00:39:35.120 permit minors to access cross-gender care, I mean, these operations and so on, and abortions without

00:39:43.160 parental knowledge or consent. So what? Now, my 13-year-old can get a double mastectomy without my

00:39:50.320 knowing or my... I mean, I want to take a look at the specifics, but to your point, how do we reason her

00:39:57.860 out of that? Yeah, you're not going to. That's the problem. We want America to be, because people

00:40:06.680 on the right or even in the middle, really, are generally patriotic. They understand how blessed

00:40:11.360 we are by God to live in this country and how wonderful America is. And so we long, I'm the

00:40:17.180 same way, we long for the days of, you know, 50 states in America, and we're all hands over our chest

00:40:23.100 watching the planes fly over as they sing the national anthem and getting a little misty. And

00:40:27.700 we want to believe that we can go back to the America we had, and our dads had, and our grandfathers

00:40:33.540 had. We want to believe that. We almost need to believe that. But that America is gone, and it's

00:40:38.020 not coming back. And I don't celebrate that. I think that's awful. It breaks my heart. If I had a heart,

00:40:43.800 it would break it. That's the real honest truth of it. But we're not going to share a society,

00:40:49.640 and shouldn't share a society with people who believe my 14-year-old son should chop his penis

00:40:55.040 off and pretend he's a woman. There's no common values there at all. And therefore, if you don't

00:41:00.960 share common values, you shouldn't live together. We are the couple right now where the husband wants

00:41:06.420 to settle down in the burbs and raise the kids and go to church on Sunday and white picket fence,

00:41:11.560 and the wife wants to tour with the Rolling Stones and do black tar heroin. Okay, they shouldn't be

00:41:16.880 together anymore. It's not healthy for the home. It's not healthy for the kids. They're different

00:41:21.580 people. We are separate people now, and we should be separate. I don't want to share a nation with any

00:41:27.520 demon who wants these young girls and young boys mutilated. These girls who are coming out now,

00:41:32.760 Megan, who've been, they were put through the shrinks, and their parents are almost always demons.

00:41:37.280 And then they have a doctor that's taking their breasts off. And I heard one of them giving

00:41:41.440 testimony about how she made this decision. I think when she was 16, she had both of her breasts

00:41:46.620 removed. And now she's heartbroken because she will never be able to nurse a baby one day.

00:41:51.860 That's Chloe Cole. She was 15.

00:41:54.100 That's exactly right, Chloe Cole. And you know how horrible and cold-hearted I am, Megan. I dang near

00:41:59.420 cried. The thought of a decision you make or your parents made and your doctor made at 16, and now

00:42:05.180 you'll never be able to nurse a baby in your life. That's not bad, Megan. That's evil. I don't

00:42:11.760 know what that is, but that's evil, and I stand against it.

00:42:14.340 It is so evil. Can I tell you, Jesse, just a personal moment? Of course, I believe you become

00:42:20.540 a mother when you find out you're pregnant. You're a mother. Like, my God, that's when motherhood began

00:42:24.540 for me. And then you deliver the baby, and you certainly know you're becoming a mother at that

00:42:28.540 moment. But it wasn't until, as soon as you have the baby now, they give you the baby,

00:42:33.700 and they tell you to put the baby on the breast so that the baby can latch, and you can get the

00:42:38.240 milk going and all that. And that, for me, is like the true crossover from the before to the after.

00:42:44.560 Like, when you really know you are a mother, when you are like feeding another human off of your

00:42:50.920 breast, which, let's face it, for most women prior to that moment feels more like a sexual organ

00:42:54.780 than a sustainer of life. And it's a beautiful moment. Not to get too weirdly intimate, but it is

00:43:01.520 a beautiful moment. It's an important moment. And so to, like, diminish it, you know, like people,

00:43:06.020 there was this one trans doctor activist who was like, so what? You can have your breasts put back.

00:43:11.640 You can have the fake breasts put back on. That's not the same. You will never be able to breastfeed

00:43:16.060 once you have that double mastectomy. And Chloe Cole's got a series out right now where she features

00:43:20.020 a 13-year-old, someone who was a 13-year-old, when they chopped off both of her breasts.

00:43:25.560 All of them denied this beautiful opportunity that's important for mother and child.

00:43:32.100 Megan, you just brought up your kid. My wife, our boys are 12 and 14 now. On occasion,

00:43:38.400 she will still bring up how much she misses those days and treasures those days because of that

00:43:43.400 lifelong connection. And just like you mentioned, just how real being a mother became. And to know

00:43:50.540 that there's this huge industry now, there's this huge evil industry doing that to teenage girls

00:43:55.880 and these teenage boys. And then they're messed up for life, not just physically. They've got these

00:44:01.220 kids, they're injecting them with things, and then they're all messed up. And then, of course,

00:44:05.480 they're all going to be on antidepressants. The suicide rates are through the roof. And we're doing

00:44:09.980 this to kids. I mean, it's not just adults. It's not just some mixed up adult who had a bad childhood.

00:44:15.280 We're doing this stuff to children. And then people come to me and say, well,

00:44:18.740 we can come back together again. Why do you think I want to come back together with you?

00:44:22.720 We're enemies. If you're the type of person who wants to do that to children,

00:44:26.800 we're not friends. And I don't want to be friends. In fact, I want to defeat you. We are enemies and

00:44:31.240 we are mortal enemies. And I intend to win. I don't even, you know, I look at it now

00:44:36.660 and I don't get how you could vote for the party that's supporting that. I really don't. I mean,

00:44:42.920 I don't mean to reduce all the big issues in our country down to the transgender debate,

00:44:47.460 because I realized there are a lot of big issues that really affect people's families

00:44:50.520 from the economy. We mentioned immigration, of course. But I mean, how do you vote for a party

00:44:56.280 that is in favor of letting minors chop off their breasts, their penises, cut up their vaginas

00:45:04.160 and cross over, quote, cross over to another gender that they will never be and that will

00:45:09.640 has a high likelihood of actually depressing them further?

00:45:11.820 Megan, maybe this is wishful thinking, but I've thought on what you just said, I've thought

00:45:19.040 that there's a tremendous opportunity for the right, whatever you want to consider that,

00:45:23.960 to reach out to older Democrats. Now, I understand tradition is powerful. You voted Democrat your

00:45:30.000 whole life. Maybe your dad was in a union and he did too. And you're raised Democrat and you're

00:45:33.900 raised to think Republicans are pieces of trash. And you're not necessarily wrong about that because

00:45:38.700 most Republicans are pieces of trash. But I think a lot of these older Democrats really genuinely

00:45:45.120 don't know. Megan, I get emails because I talk about this a lot. I get emails from people and

00:45:49.580 I'll say, man, you've got to tell your mom, you got to tell your dad. And they say, Jesse, I am

00:45:53.700 telling them they don't believe me. They don't believe that this is what the party stands for,

00:45:57.560 or they'll get mad at me and kind of cut me off. I think a lot of 60, 65 year old Democrats,

00:46:02.920 I'm sure some are listening to your show right now. I'm sure they really don't realize that when they go

00:46:07.500 in and hammer straight ticket Democrat anymore, you're voting for it. That's what you're voting

00:46:11.780 for. I think that's a bitter pill for these people to swallow. These same Democrats like AOC who were

00:46:17.220 there performatively crying at the Southern border in her white outfit, you know, because the children,

00:46:22.860 the children had been separated from their parents. Now we're in favor of things like this New Mexico

00:46:26.860 law. Now they're fine separating the children from their parents when it comes to issues like this,

00:46:31.340 like self mutilation. They're fine with the abuse of children and allowing them to make these

00:46:35.100 decisions before they can buy a pair, a pack of cigarettes, nevermind vote or drink alcohol or

00:46:40.900 even drive a car. It's just total insanity. All right. Stand by. Jesse Kelly stays with us. And I do

00:46:47.860 want you to go out and buy the anti-communist manifesto. This just in, okay, this just in

00:46:54.080 the anti-communist manifesto. Tomorrow, June 6th is a day that might just change the world.

00:47:01.000 It might save the world. It is the day the anti-communist manifesto comes out by anonymous.

00:47:09.080 That's how good it is. Rush, run, don't walk to the nearest store and get this book or just

00:47:14.320 go online and get it via Amazon. Don't forget to listen to the Megan Kelly show. You can do that

00:47:19.040 live on Sirius XM triumph channel one 11 every weekday at noon East. That's a fun way to consume

00:47:23.780 our show live without a net. The full video shows at youtube.com slash Megan Kelly. And the audio

00:47:29.460 podcast is available wherever you get your podcasts for free. Check it out.

00:47:37.540 So let's talk politics. The latest poll just dropped today morning consult, and it shows that

00:47:44.820 about a week or so after DeSantis officially launched his campaign, his support is stagnant.

00:47:51.440 He has not moved the needle his first week out on the trail, despite some ubiquitous presence of

00:47:57.580 staffers in places like Iowa, et cetera. He trails Trump by 34 percentage points among

00:48:02.600 GOP primary voters. Trump has 56. DeSantis has 22, which is very similar to his standing right

00:48:09.200 before he launched on May 24th. I just looked at the sort of a graph that shows you the Trump line

00:48:16.580 goes like this and the DeSantis line. There it is. The DeSantis line was kind of even, not even,

00:48:22.040 but kind of going along the same path with Trump back in December, though 20 points below.

00:48:29.060 And then there was a huge gap where the Trump one starts to go up and the DeSantis one starts

00:48:33.300 to go down. And you know, when that happened, April of 2023, guess what date Trump was arraigned?

00:48:41.060 April 4th. The indictment, I think, came down at the last day of March. It just it was a runaway

00:48:47.460 home run for Donald Trump. The people saw him as persecuted. The GOP has sided with him more than

00:48:53.580 ever. And DeSantis has not been able to make up the difference. This as now Mike Pence is officially

00:49:00.040 getting into the race. And let's not forget about Chris Christie and also the governor of North

00:49:06.480 Dakota, whose name I can't remember right now. So what do you make of those stats, Jesse?

00:49:11.460 Well, this is the challenge that DeSantis camp faces. And the trouble with this is some challenges

00:49:17.380 don't have a good answer, Megan. It's not that Donald Trump has been arraigned and got more

00:49:22.500 popular. It's that Donald Trump is going to be arraigned again, probably twice. Donald Trump is

00:49:28.960 in serious legal trouble in Washington, D.C. He's in legal trouble in Georgia as well, as you well know.

00:49:35.840 And I want to explain people this thing to people because people get caught up in their emotions.

00:49:40.380 I know it's unjust. I know it's not right. Set that aside. Washington, D.C., New York City,

00:49:46.380 places like that are not America anymore. We're talking communist judges, communist juries,

00:49:51.100 over 95 percent Democrats who think Donald Trump's the Antichrist. There's a chance, not zero. In fact,

00:49:57.480 I would argue it's over 50 that Donald Trump's going to jail. But the problem for the DeSantis camp is

00:50:03.140 what do you do about that? The second Donald Trump gets arraigned, the trials are going to begin.

00:50:09.720 He's going to possibly even be sentenced. There's no answer that DeSantis campaign can give to the

00:50:16.500 people that's going to calm their fears down or calm their anger down, I guess I should say,

00:50:21.820 and turn towards him. It is the challenge they face. I think DeSantis so far from what I've seen

00:50:27.380 has run a great campaign. I'm impressed by his staff. I think their messaging is good. But again,

00:50:32.460 they can do everything perfectly. But if the GOP primary voter continues to feel that Donald Trump

00:50:39.620 is their guy because he's being so persecuted by a corrupt system, what can DeSantis say, Megan?

00:50:45.440 Nothing. What can he say? What's he supposed to do? Go out there and say, this is wrong. I'm sorry,

00:50:49.720 but vote for me instead. He can't take advantage of it. That'll just defend people. I don't know that

00:50:55.500 there's a good answer. I don't know that there is one. Maybe he could get indicted.

00:51:01.460 Can everybody indicted? Everybody gets persecuted. You say that, but that's probably what it would

00:51:06.500 take, Megan. Think about that. OK, let's assume Donald Trump has 30, 35 percent of the GOP primary

00:51:12.480 base. They are tempered. They are with him. It doesn't matter what happens now. They will vote

00:51:16.600 for Donald Trump. What more of a percentage does he get every single time that people see the DOJ,

00:51:23.360 the FBI, these Soros prosecutors come down and politically persecute him? You get a big

00:51:29.460 middle finger vote just based off of that, based off of how the fact that they are persecuting him

00:51:35.380 so badly. But again, this is why I don't get it's why I don't stress about the GOP primary too much.

00:51:41.300 One, we have much bigger fish to fry, bigger things going on than Trump or DeSantis ever could

00:51:47.220 be. And two, look, just like Democrats who go vote Democrat every time in New York City and then watch

00:51:53.500 it turn into a hellhole, the GOP primary voter is going to have an opportunity to choose the

00:51:59.180 candidate they want, and we will get the candidate we deserve 100 percent of the time. There won't be

00:52:05.200 cheating to blame in the GOP primary. There will be no fingers pointed. Whoever comes out of that

00:52:10.780 GOP primary as the candidate, that is the candidate the GOP deserves, and we're going to get him.

00:52:16.960 The everything you just said reminded me of Jim Comey, who's out there. My God,

00:52:21.800 help us. He's also marketing a book, Jesse. He's marketing a book. He's written some novel

00:52:26.080 and sat down with Jen Psaki and just a stomach turning exchange where they're discussing the

00:52:34.620 possibility of Trump being indicted many more times and also Comey's fears, fears about Trump

00:52:42.160 potentially becoming the nominee and winning again. Listen to this.

00:52:45.500 Can you envision a scenario where Trump manages to win back the White House and justice is delayed?

00:52:50.520 I could. I don't I don't want to, but I could. I mean, it's this crazy world that Donald Trump has

00:52:56.180 dragged this country into, but he could be wearing an ankle bracelet while accepting the nomination.

00:53:00.500 Well, think about what four years of a retribution presidency might look like. He could order the

00:53:09.540 investigation and prosecution of individuals who he sees as enemies. I'm sure I'm on the enemies list

00:53:15.880 because the president constitutionally does oversee the executive branch entirely, which includes the

00:53:21.780 Department of Justice, prosecutors and investigators. And so he could commission direct that individuals be

00:53:28.240 pursued. That the president could influence the DOJ to go after private citizens, Jesse. The horror.

00:53:36.460 Could you imagine if we lived in a country, Megan, where the president of the United States would

00:53:41.080 politically prosecute his opponents? For instance, if, say, you were walking by the Capitol on January 6th,

00:53:48.640 what if we had a president who sent the FBI after you? If you were a pro-life activist and you

00:53:53.560 happened to be reading Bible verses or singing worship songs out in front of an abortion clinic,

00:53:58.540 what if we had a president who sent the DOJ after you? What if we had a president who, while the other

00:54:04.100 guy, the presumptive nominee was running for office, had the DOJ working up multiple cases against you?

00:54:10.520 Can you imagine if we lived in a country like that? What a banana republic that would actually be,

00:54:14.780 Megan? Not to mention if you're a parent who speaks out about the COVID restrictions at a school

00:54:18.580 board and get labeled a domestic terrorist after the White House coordinated a letter to the DOJ about

00:54:23.740 you or you're a parent who went to that church out in California during the COVID restrictions and

00:54:30.760 worshiped anyway while you got spied on in your prayer circles by the FBI. Imagine what the horror,

00:54:37.000 Jim Comey, of that actually happening.

00:54:40.160 And he mentioned that ankle bracelet thing you played at the very beginning there, Megan. I heard

00:54:44.320 that yesterday and the first thing I thought, maybe I'm paranoid by this point in time, the first

00:54:48.720 thing I thought was that was a warning. James Comey is not some outsider, sadly. I know he's a gigantic

00:54:54.980 goober, but he's not some outsider. Quick side note, it chaps me that right now his book is two spots

00:55:01.320 ahead of my book on the Amazon bestsellers, so everybody better go to jessikellybook.com. I better

00:55:07.060 overtake that dork by the end of the day. Anyway, he's not some outsider. This guy is as wired in as

00:55:13.480 anybody out there. I took that as a warning, and I'm going to warn everybody right now. I'm sure

00:55:18.940 people already realize this. You're going to face an election cycle like nobody has ever seen in the

00:55:23.620 history of the country where perhaps the nominee, maybe the likely nominee, is going to be on trial,

00:55:29.700 going to be arrested, going to be arraigned. I don't think people have mentally prepared

00:55:34.440 themselves for what's coming over the next year, Megan. It's going to be wild.

00:55:38.240 Mm-hmm. Although the Democrats are salivating at the imagery, just salivating at it. Be careful.

00:55:43.980 Be careful what you wish for. Anything could happen, like Biden falls. Trump gets it. Biden

00:55:49.520 falls. Nobody wants Kamala. And Bob's your uncle. We got a President Trump again. I don't think the

00:55:54.240 left has thought it through. There's so many things I want to get to, but let me talk about another

00:55:59.300 candidate. You didn't bite on Chris Christie, so I'm guessing you're not feeling the tingly feeling

00:56:04.620 about his entry. Well, I don't care about, honestly, I don't care about any of them but

00:56:09.720 Trump and DeSantis, because I don't think any of them can win. And most of them I have really

00:56:13.800 nothing but scorn for. Chris Christie presents something that may be interesting in the race,

00:56:18.840 not that he in and of himself is interesting, but Christie is the first of the candidates to get

00:56:24.200 in the race that is a publicly declared enemy of Trump. All the other candidates, since they've

00:56:29.620 gotten in the race, they've done nothing but attack DeSantis. All of them are clearly just

00:56:33.620 trying to be Trump's VP. Some of them probably got in at the behest of Trump, which is really

00:56:37.660 smart campaigning, by the way. But Chris Christie is not only an open opponent of Trump. I know people

00:56:43.160 hate Chris Christie, and I do too. He's a really good debater, and he can savage you in the debate.

00:56:47.780 People forget that he ended Marco Rubio's presidential run last time, absolutely ended it in that one

00:56:52.880 debate. What if Christie does that to Trump? That may be a wild card people aren't thinking about. He is

00:56:58.300 a publicly declared enemy of Trump. That actually could get ugly for Trump in one of the debates.

00:57:03.620 I don't hate Chris Christie. I see that he hasn't been successful at all in his presidential runs.

00:57:08.700 But you're right. It's going to be interesting. And I'd like to see because Trump's he's so wily on

00:57:13.080 the debate stage. He's so tough to pin down and score points against. And yet that's Christie's

00:57:17.540 forte. But he fights the old fashioned way, you know, with facts and points and waiting for

00:57:23.780 counterpoints and counter punches. And, you know, Trump will basically just be like, you're fat.

00:57:27.700 You've you've always been fat. You're fatter than like, how do you respond?

00:57:32.140 How do you? It's going to be the big challenge as we go. Now, wait, well, I do think it's

00:57:37.580 interesting who one of these guys might be in the VP role. I think you're right. All these guys really

00:57:41.360 want to be the VP Nikki Haley. She also, by the way, had a town hall on CNN that, you know, it was

00:57:45.840 crickets. Listen to it. Made no news. No news. The truth is, people aren't interested in Nikki.

00:57:50.280 Again, I respect her, but it's not going to happen. Tim Scott, though, goes on The View.

00:57:56.240 And this got interesting. The View, like literally a week ago, Joy Behar made the point that Clarence

00:58:04.160 Thomas and Tim Scott don't understand the plight of what it's like to be a black man in America.

00:58:10.160 She made that point. Then I think she missed yesterday when he came on. But Sonny Hostin was

00:58:17.080 there to do her bidding in this exchange that's gone viral. Watch this.

00:58:21.060 One of the reasons why I'm on the show is because of the comments that were made, frankly,

00:58:23.920 on this show, that the only way for a young African-American kid to be successful in this

00:58:28.000 country is to be the exception and not the rule. That is a dangerous, offensive, disgusting message

00:58:33.940 to send to our young people today. And if my life is the exception, I can't imagine.

00:58:38.780 But it is.

00:58:39.660 But it's not, actually.

00:58:40.760 It's been 114 years.

00:58:42.280 Yeah. So the fact of the matter is we've had an African-American president, African-American

00:58:45.740 African-American vice president. We've had two African-Americans to be secretaries of the

00:58:49.320 state. In 1975, there was about 15 percent employment in the African-American community

00:58:54.740 for the first time in the history of the country. It's under 5 percent.

00:58:57.080 40 percent homelessness of African-Americans get 13 percent of the population.

00:59:02.520 You had a chance to ask the question. I've watched you on the show that you like people

00:59:05.600 to be deferential and respectful. So I'm going to do the same thing.

00:59:07.880 That is true.

00:59:08.300 So here's what I'm going to suggest. I'm going to suggest the fact of the matter is that

00:59:12.000 progress in America is palpable. It can be measured in generations.

00:59:15.240 So what I'm suggesting is that the yesterday's exception is today's rule.

00:59:21.300 And for us to suggest that has met its promise.

00:59:23.540 No, of course, the the concept of America is that we are going to become a more perfect

00:59:28.400 union. But in fact, the challenges that we face 50 years ago and 60 years ago should

00:59:34.120 not be the same challenges that we face today.

00:59:36.360 I mean, there she is again, bashing America.

00:59:39.480 We've made no progress. Black people are, I guess, as embattled as they were during Jim

00:59:44.380 Crow, this this millionaire woman whose son is at Harvard, who lives in a huge mansion,

00:59:48.900 who, you know, to her credit, worked her way up to all those things from from working class

00:59:53.040 background from what she says. I think she grew up in the Bronx.

00:59:56.080 But still, still, just like Michelle Obama, the country sucks.

01:00:00.080 The country is disgusting. It's just as racist as it ever was.

01:00:03.800 I write about this, actually, in the book, Megan, about the different fingers of American

01:00:07.560 communism, how the how you have the feminists and the climate change nutters and the feminist

01:00:11.920 and the the LGBTQ people and the Black Lives Matter, quote, civil rights movement.

01:00:17.400 And the truth is, they're all just fingers of the same communist fist.

01:00:21.600 Communism is just the religion of the malcontent.

01:00:23.760 That's all it is. That's why it's taken a different form in every country it's ever been.

01:00:26.880 That's why it's not about workers here.

01:00:28.920 It's about the gays and the civil rights and things like that.

01:00:31.940 Sunny, actually, she's a great example of this.

01:00:34.640 You cannot, you cannot under any circumstances, if you're an American communist trying to wreck

01:00:40.380 the country, trying to achieve power and money for yourself, you can never at any point in time

01:00:45.200 look at the malcontents who you're claiming to lead and tell them, hey, guys, it's all good now.

01:00:51.420 Calm down. You need more malcontents.

01:00:54.680 The malcontents are your source of power. It's your source of destruction.

01:00:58.620 So at no point is some loser like Sunny ever going to get up there and say, wow, you're right.

01:01:04.120 I am the American dream. And she's not alone with all the, quote, civil rights leaders that

01:01:09.080 try to be on the try to take the same tactic in this country.

01:01:13.000 You look at somebody like LeBron James or Oprah Winfrey or something like that.

01:01:18.300 These people are the American story, the biggest inspiration in the world.

01:01:22.260 LeBron James grew up horribly.

01:01:24.340 And now I think he's a billionaire with hard work, a billionaire.

01:01:28.160 It's got private jets. That is it's a story of success.

01:01:32.900 And yet LeBron James wants to be oppressed. Oprah Winfrey.

01:01:35.700 I was they judged me because I'm black.

01:01:37.960 They they need that because you can't ever get to the place where you say, hey, man,

01:01:45.000 no more malcontent stuff here.

01:01:46.760 If you want to make it, you can make it.

01:01:48.560 The second God to this beautiful country.

01:01:50.300 Right. Yep.

01:01:51.340 Thank God.

01:01:51.960 Oprah, too, had a horrendous upbringing.

01:01:54.640 First black female billionaire in America way back in 2003.

01:01:59.540 Yep.

01:02:00.060 But we're still like we're supposed to ignore it.

01:02:02.040 Like he points out you got LeBron and Oprah.

01:02:05.220 Of course, you got a black president of the United States, Supreme Court justices,

01:02:10.840 U.S. senators, secretaries of state.

01:02:13.640 Now vice president, we could go to no, they're all exceptions.

01:02:17.340 At what point do the exceptions become the rule, Sonny?

01:02:20.540 At what point?

01:02:21.480 At no point.

01:02:22.700 That's my point, Megan.

01:02:23.800 At no point.

01:02:24.480 At no point where will there ever be.

01:02:27.680 Hey, guys, we made it.

01:02:29.280 We can calm down.

01:02:30.540 That's why the communist is so vague about his goals.

01:02:33.680 Nobody can actually describe.

01:02:34.900 You ever notice, Megan, none of these people can describe what is the diversity achievement

01:02:39.860 goal?

01:02:40.620 What is the equity goal?

01:02:42.460 You know why they can't describe it?

01:02:44.200 Because the second you give someone an actual goal, then once you meet that goal, you have

01:02:48.540 to stop.

01:02:49.340 It's all just vague platitudes.

01:02:51.520 That way you can always continue to move the goalposts along somewhere.

01:02:55.520 The diversity and equity and achievement, these things, they make things ill definable.

01:03:01.560 So the revolution, as we mentioned earlier in the show, so the revolution is without end.

01:03:06.980 There is no end goal.

01:03:08.440 They will demand you define everything.

01:03:10.400 Define that.

01:03:11.080 You can't even define that.

01:03:11.980 They will define nothing for you.

01:03:14.280 That's why when Mao was doing his cultural revolution, he was doing it on old ideas and

01:03:19.100 old habits and old customs.

01:03:20.800 What do those words mean?

01:03:22.560 Whatever Mao wanted them to mean in any given moment.

01:03:24.980 And have they been achieved?

01:03:26.320 Well, as soon as Mao's done, he'll decide when they've been achieved.

01:03:29.500 It can never be achieved.

01:03:30.980 There will never be a moment when the feminists decide women have it good.

01:03:34.260 There will never be a moment when the LGBTQ demon mob decides we have equality.

01:03:38.480 We're fine.

01:03:39.160 The civil rights, the, quote, civil rights side of this country, the whole black activism

01:03:43.560 thing, exact same thing.

01:03:45.340 The leaders of that movement, they can never get to a place where they say, we can make

01:03:50.860 it.

01:03:51.160 You can make it.

01:03:51.740 Look at me.

01:03:52.360 Look at this guy.

01:03:53.060 You can.

01:03:53.480 Because the second they do that, they've given their power away.

01:03:56.640 Their power comes from the malcontents.

01:03:58.640 So they have to remain malcontents.

01:04:00.460 That's why these gay rights groups have now switched over to the T because they, we have

01:04:04.880 equality for gays and lesbians.

01:04:06.280 That's why the human rights campaign now just means it's basically trans rights activist

01:04:10.320 group.

01:04:11.400 They can't admit it.

01:04:12.380 And it's to your point.

01:04:13.600 It's why the California reparations push is such a joke.

01:04:16.180 Like, oh, I'm sure everyone's just going to go away satisfied saying you did right by

01:04:19.960 us.

01:04:20.320 These people who were not descended from slaves at all.

01:04:22.440 California was a free state are going to get what?

01:04:24.680 Five million dollar checks, two million dollar checks.

01:04:26.400 And they're going to say, we're good.

01:04:27.340 No, it's because it's not part of the agenda.

01:04:29.200 The agenda is much bigger and it includes never being satisfied.

01:04:32.260 I love how Sonny's like 114 years.

01:04:34.500 You know, yeah, it took a long time for the South to produce a black senator.

01:04:37.620 You know who did it?

01:04:38.420 The Republicans.

01:04:39.320 The Republicans did it.

01:04:40.440 And on that earlier segment with Joy Behar, she was like, they don't get it.

01:04:43.440 They don't understand the black experience in America because they're Republicans.

01:04:46.240 OK, because the Democratic Party has been such an example in civil rights and progress

01:04:51.140 for blacks.

01:04:52.060 Who do you think was pushing all the Jim Crow laws?

01:04:53.760 Right.

01:04:53.880 Who was behind the racist South?

01:04:55.900 In any event.

01:04:56.320 OK, enough about the ladies of DeVue.

01:04:58.200 But the presidential politics are interesting.

01:05:00.180 And here's where I'm going on it next.

01:05:04.020 The Daily Beast did the most laughable, absurd piece on Casey DeSantis.

01:05:11.100 I've read in recent memory.

01:05:12.640 I can't remember a more absurd hit piece that just checked every box of what the left thinks

01:05:17.980 of Republican women.

01:05:19.700 It's amazing.

01:05:20.740 I recommend it just because I think people will enjoy it, like for, you know, hate reading

01:05:24.540 purposes.

01:05:25.660 The headline is Casey DeSantis is the Walmart Melania.

01:05:30.360 All right.

01:05:30.900 So let's bring Walmart into it.

01:05:32.700 Let's rip on those poor, fat middle Americans who shop at Walmart.

01:05:36.760 We know that's how they feel.

01:05:37.760 Right.

01:05:38.000 That's how the left feels.

01:05:39.660 So she's not even like a good Melania.

01:05:41.420 She's like a disgusting, lame Melania is the Daily Beast suggestion.

01:05:46.340 The First Lady of Florida.

01:05:47.120 I've got to read you some of these excerpts.

01:05:48.780 First Lady of Florida showed up on the campaign trail in Iowa this weekend wearing a ghastly

01:05:53.140 black leather jacket, American flag on the front, an alligator in the silhouette of her

01:05:57.840 state on the back with the sneering words where woke goes to die.

01:06:03.320 That brought to mind nothing so much as the racks of a red state big bin store where it

01:06:08.640 would be retailing for $24.99.

01:06:10.820 Not like the Bergdorf Goodman where I shop, you losers.

01:06:17.420 That's me writing in between the lines.

01:06:19.640 Goes on to say it reminds the writer of Melania's coat.

01:06:23.400 I really don't care that she wore when she went down to the border crisis situation.

01:06:27.680 The message on Melania's coat, like the one time model herself, was sphinx like.

01:06:32.740 And then she talks about the speculation about what that jacket meant.

01:06:35.260 Did it mean nothing at all?

01:06:36.260 Like her spokesman insisted, maybe like Melania herself, a cipher whose eyes seem to betray

01:06:43.220 an inner emptiness.

01:06:45.720 By contrast, Casey DeSantis' coat is just like her husband Ron DeSantis' campaign.

01:06:51.900 Crude, grasping, saying the ugly part out loud.

01:06:56.760 DeSantis' Florida is where the woke go to die.

01:06:59.660 And a lot of other people die as well.

01:07:02.800 DeSantis had one of the highest COVID death rates.

01:07:05.000 No mention of the fact that Florida is full of old people who were affected by COVID more

01:07:08.740 than any other.

01:07:09.800 She brings up the horrific Pulse nightclub mass shooting in Orlando, which was go go read

01:07:15.440 Glenn Greenwald on the Pulse nightclub and the Islamic extremists and the motivation there.

01:07:20.020 OK, but I guess that's DeSantis' fault.

01:07:22.820 Their shameful history of Jim Crow era lynch mobs.

01:07:25.520 Hello.

01:07:26.300 Refer to my history lesson.

01:07:27.440 But of course, DeSantis and his cronies want to pervert kids from learning about any of

01:07:33.920 that, any of the history in Florida by censoring their library books and AP curricula.

01:07:39.740 All lies.

01:07:40.780 All lies.

01:07:42.240 They're teaching history in Florida.

01:07:44.540 The AP African-American history course that he didn't what like promoted Kendi, D'Angelo

01:07:50.800 and the likes.

01:07:51.240 And once they took that stuff out, he said, I'm totally in favor of it.

01:07:54.700 The jacket then is a warning.

01:07:56.460 Watch out, America.

01:07:57.820 All right.

01:07:57.960 I got to keep going and then I'm going to give you the floor.

01:07:59.560 I promise.

01:08:00.480 It's just so good.

01:08:02.200 The DeSantis' will never be Camelot.

01:08:04.660 Jackie and JFK symbolized the opposite of vulgar pettiness.

01:08:09.400 They embodied youth energy, a commitment to moral progress in the struggle for civil rights.

01:08:14.520 Sure, they were totally moral.

01:08:15.560 I'm sure Kennedy's record with his wife would stack up really nicely against DeSantis' with

01:08:20.940 his.

01:08:21.800 The DeSantis' are more like posers, fake Birkins, Mar-a-Lago imitators.

01:08:29.000 She says, we've got a Sunshine State Lady Macbeth in her green cape and white gloves with her

01:08:34.780 middling husband and her thirst for the crown.

01:08:37.540 And we've got a guy who wants to be sitting in a corner mumbling about the Federalist papers

01:08:42.080 and gobbling pudding off his fingers.

01:08:45.660 Trump is the danger of raw, chaotic id.

01:08:49.300 DeSantis, meanwhile, is the little jerk.

01:08:52.240 He's going to make all of us pay for how he had no friends in third grade.

01:08:57.140 Oh, my God, Jesse.

01:08:59.040 Oh, my God.

01:09:00.320 As I said, clicks all the boxes, checks all of them.

01:09:03.840 Well, this is how they treat all the GOP first ladies.

01:09:08.280 And it just goes to show you once again, they never mean anything that they say.

01:09:12.720 They lie about everything they care about.

01:09:14.500 They don't care about the climate.

01:09:15.960 They don't care about women.

01:09:17.620 They don't care about black people.

01:09:19.240 They care about communism.

01:09:20.680 And you can tell this because the second a Republican one steps up, she gets smeared.

01:09:26.560 I'd love to hear all the things they've said to you over the years and things they've emailed

01:09:30.820 to you over the years, Megan.

01:09:32.580 I remember all the things they said about Melania.

01:09:35.680 I've seen the things they say about Congresswomen like Boebert or any female Republican senator.

01:09:41.940 The second you come out against the cause, you become Walmart Melania.

01:09:46.700 You become some worthless piece of trash who offended God himself, some heretic.

01:09:52.200 And that's how they treat everybody.

01:09:54.480 But again, I think the real, the person who's failed the most in all this, Megan, has been

01:09:59.820 the right, has been us.

01:10:00.860 Look, I'll point fingers at myself.

01:10:03.120 We've watched these people do this forever.

01:10:05.460 And we've always assumed that we could just, you know, we could do enough to earn their approval

01:10:09.880 or do enough to kind of calm things down.

01:10:12.880 Maybe if I'm more pro-women, that they won't act like that I'm the Antichrist.

01:10:16.720 Maybe if I run enough black candidates that they'll finally accept that I'm not a racist.

01:10:21.280 And we haven't accepted yet that those days will never come.

01:10:23.960 Because again, if the communist reaches his destination, then he has to stop.

01:10:28.600 So there's never a destination.

01:10:30.100 It is destruction without end.

01:10:32.460 Casey DeSantis is wonderful.

01:10:34.180 She's a beautiful young mother.

01:10:36.900 They appear to be, I don't know them, but they appear to be a loving couple.

01:10:40.480 So whether you're a DeSantis fan or not, they appear to be wonderful.

01:10:43.740 That's something to admire in this country.

01:10:46.080 But the thing is, she's on the wrong side of the whole communist agenda.

01:10:49.780 So you have to belittle her, make fun of her clothes.

01:10:52.860 I bet you that was a woman who wrote that article, though, Megan, because you women are terrible

01:10:56.280 to each other when it comes to fashion.

01:10:58.080 Terrible to each other.

01:10:59.260 Oh, let me go on on fashion.

01:11:01.500 It reminds me of a line, by the way, from Pride and Prejudice.

01:11:05.060 I have no wish for their good approval.

01:11:07.000 I have no wish for his good approval.

01:11:08.520 And that's exactly how I feel about the left and what you're saying.

01:11:12.380 There's no point in trying to seek it.

01:11:14.020 It's not available to you, no matter how good you try to be under their standards.

01:11:18.220 Listen to this.

01:11:19.660 Of course, neither Melania Trump nor Casey DeSantis, you're not going to believe this,

01:11:24.860 could ever embody the class and effortless elegance of Michelle Obama or Dr. Jill Biden.

01:11:32.040 Yes, yes.

01:11:33.040 Listen, stand by.

01:11:34.160 Those first ladies have used fashion not as a punitive tool to stick it to political enemies,

01:11:39.940 nor as a bored, nihilistic shrug, but as something generous and welcoming.

01:11:45.240 Think the pure sweetness of Michelle's Jason Wu floral gown for the Obama's first inaugural,

01:11:51.140 or Jill's pastel blue coat that echoed the colors of Ukraine's flag when Zelensky visited the White House.

01:11:58.220 Literally, she says, neither Melania nor Casey DeSantis could ever embody the class and effortless elegance of Michelle or Dr. Jill.

01:12:07.760 Now, first of all, Dr. Jill Biden's fashion has been the subject of much criticism all over Twitter.

01:12:17.040 This woman is not exactly the next Cindy Crawford.

01:12:21.160 OK, I'm sorry, but look at this.

01:12:24.020 She's got the sneakers with the yellow and green flower dress.

01:12:27.740 And I don't know what's happening on the shoulder there.

01:12:29.520 But the left and the right have had a lot of fun at Jill Biden's expense thanks to her fashion choices.

01:12:35.060 So to talk about them like it is effortless elegance wherever she goes is ridiculous.

01:12:39.760 As for the class that she and Michelle so effortlessly embody, I don't remember Casey DeSantis or Melania Trump ever calling Latinos little burritos in a national speech.

01:12:53.780 I don't remember either one of them bashing America as racist.

01:12:58.380 Michelle Obama, first time in my adult life I'm ever proud of my country.

01:13:02.080 I didn't wear my hair naturally because I wasn't I didn't think America could handle natural black hair.

01:13:06.800 Or made up stories about being subjected to racism when she went into various Walmart or Kmart.

01:13:12.140 I can't remember the name of the brand store that she was allegedly subjected to when she was speaking to a black audience.

01:13:16.760 Then laughed about it as a non-racist incident when she was on one of the late night shows.

01:13:21.000 Is that classy really to be in a country that helps you become first lady, not to mention a successful lawyer beforehand,

01:13:27.600 to be married to the president of the United States who's also a black person and to use your big platform to bash the country as still just as racist.

01:13:35.460 Because that's class. That, Jesse, is class.

01:13:38.800 Oh, yeah. Boy, I tell you what, every time I saw Michelle Obama take a dump all over this country, I was blown away by her class.

01:13:46.420 I can't I can't stand these people. Jill Biden is the exact same way.

01:13:50.460 But the Obamas were maybe the worst at this. I remember that video.

01:13:53.680 I remember it like it was yesterday. I believe it was a Memorial Day celebration.

01:13:57.540 And don't quote me on that, Megan. I may have it wrong where they caught Michelle Obama on camera standing there by Barack Obama.

01:14:03.460 And she leans in and she says to him, all this for a damn flag.

01:14:06.880 And you could see the scorn on her face and the scorn in his face as he leaned back and agreed real, genuine America haters.

01:14:14.500 And frankly, the authors of much of what we see now, because it's all Obama's America hating staffers working for old president poopy pants now as he just wanders through the hallways.

01:14:24.560 So the Obamas and their America hating fingerprints are still all over things.

01:14:29.080 And I never saw class. That's for sure. I don't give a crap how they dress.

01:14:32.600 I can hardly dress myself anyway, but I never saw class and how they spoke about this country.

01:14:37.380 That's for sure. And I do. I miss a time when presidents, Democrat and Republicans spoke lovingly about America.

01:14:43.920 I miss those days. But those days are sadly probably gone.

01:14:46.920 You know who needs a lesson in class? The author of this piece, Katie Baker, who actually finishes the piece by mocking Casey DeSantis's status as a breast cancer survivor.

01:14:59.600 She has the gall to bring up her breast cancer in this hit piece.

01:15:04.840 This is absolutely the worst part. She says, so what does Casey DeSantis want us to know about her?

01:15:09.980 What does she stand for? Well, we know she's a woman who has high ambitions for her awkward husband.

01:15:14.880 Oh, unlike Hillary Clinton, when Bill Clinton was running, where she said we're going to get two for the price of one.

01:15:19.580 We know she's a woman who understands the power of the image.

01:15:22.540 We know she's a woman who has overcome the great trials of a breast cancer diagnosis.

01:15:26.400 Anyone going through that must have strength and grit.

01:15:28.360 But still, we've all met people who stared death in the face and came out the other side incandescently glowing with life and with love.

01:15:36.740 Perhaps that is the case in Casey DeSantis's private and personal life.

01:15:40.160 But on the public stage, with that black leather jacket, she's telling us she stands for something else.

01:15:46.160 She's telling us she is cheering on a spouse who gets his kicks off targeting his fellow Americans.

01:15:52.640 She's telling us she's down with his message of division and dehumanization.

01:15:58.060 She's telling us they are ready for far more power.

01:16:02.340 She's incandescent in her black leather jacket at her husband's side, both of them seething with hate.

01:16:10.960 Wow. She's beyond pale.

01:16:14.620 Look, the second you oppose these people in the smallest way, you're hateful.

01:16:19.020 You're hateful and you're bigoted and you hate women or you hate black people or you hate the planet or you hate something.

01:16:25.800 That's how they they operate.

01:16:27.600 And I will actually give them credit for this.

01:16:29.380 That writer is a great example.

01:16:30.840 That piece is a great example, Megan, of how they put their people.

01:16:34.720 The communists always put their people in the right mindset.

01:16:37.260 Mindset leads to results.

01:16:38.700 Everyone knows this.

01:16:39.960 They will look at you.

01:16:41.100 They'll look at me and they'll say, look at that Nazi white supremacist.

01:16:44.240 And their people will get in the mindset that they're fighting against some inhuman evil that must be defeated at all costs.

01:16:50.900 Our people will still say things like, well, I think it is hard.

01:16:53.880 He's a good man.

01:16:54.780 And look, we all we all kind of want the right things.

01:16:57.480 And he's not a George Soros prosecutor who's turning criminals loose to intentionally burn down society and cause chaos.

01:17:03.800 He's just he's just soft on crime.

01:17:06.840 We constantly put our people in the wrong mindset.

01:17:09.420 They don't.

01:17:09.940 They'll look at Casey DeSantis, who just survived breast cancer.

01:17:12.560 And they'll rip her to shreds because they know they're prepping people.

01:17:16.460 We don't do that.

01:17:17.260 And that's part of our failure is anti-communists.

01:17:20.000 It's worse.

01:17:20.300 It's worse than she just survived it.

01:17:21.940 And they rip her.

01:17:22.600 They raise it.

01:17:23.820 They raise it as we would have expected you to be nicer after surviving it.

01:17:28.840 But then you wore that jacket about Florida being where woke goes to die.

01:17:33.700 And therefore, we know you're evil.

01:17:35.580 Therefore, we know you're seething with hate.

01:17:38.160 But that is absolutely disgusting.

01:17:41.300 And any self-respecting editor at The Daily Beast should have told Katie Baker, that undermines everything else you wrote.

01:17:49.040 Maybe you have a point on this, that or the other thing.

01:17:51.260 That's up to the readers to decide.

01:17:53.400 But that's beyond.

01:17:54.800 But it's indicative of what we're dealing with here on the left in the media in particular today.

01:17:59.460 Jesse Kelly, as the show says, I'm right.

01:18:03.100 He's right.

01:18:03.980 Thank you so much for being here.

01:18:05.200 Help him surpass Jim Comey, for the love of God.

01:18:08.500 Go buy the anti-communist manifesto today.

01:18:12.020 How do they get it?

01:18:12.740 What was the website?

01:18:13.880 jessikellybook.com?

01:18:15.960 jessikellybook.com has everything you want.

01:18:17.920 If you want a signed copy, a regular copy, book tour info, it's all at jessikellybook.com.

01:18:22.740 We made it easy for people like me.

01:18:25.140 Good.

01:18:25.740 Win a date with Jesse.

01:18:26.980 There's no limit to where this could go.

01:18:29.140 Thank you for coming on.

01:18:30.880 See you soon, I hope.

01:18:31.540 Megan, it's an honor.

01:18:32.920 I love you, Megan.

01:18:33.620 Thank you.

01:18:34.540 Likewise.

01:18:35.040 Right back at you.

01:18:35.940 Coming up, our friend Joseph Massey has a new book to it.

01:18:38.580 You remember Joseph Massey?

01:18:39.760 He's this incredibly talented poet who was canceled in the Me Too movement.

01:18:45.060 His life was practically ruined, and he decided to self-publish a book of poems.

01:18:49.820 Not long after that, dealing with depression and so on, thanks to what had happened to him.

01:18:53.720 Well, all of you helped him support himself and actually helped that book do really well.

01:18:58.540 He's got a new book, and we're going to talk to him about that and where his life has gone next.

01:19:03.100 Poet Joseph Massey joins me now.

01:19:08.980 He was on the show last year, I think it was April of 2022, to discuss his attempted cancellation in the literary world.

01:19:16.060 No one is safe.

01:19:17.280 No one.

01:19:18.160 Well, he has a new book out of poetry called The Light of No Other Hour, and we would love for you to help support Joseph.

01:19:27.060 After the mob tried to cancel him and ruin his career, we are bringing it back, and it's working.

01:19:33.840 Joseph, welcome back to the show.

01:19:34.940 How are you?

01:19:36.280 I'm great.

01:19:36.780 Thanks, Megan, for having me again.

01:19:38.800 Oh, my pleasure.

01:19:39.560 It's great to see you.

01:19:40.360 So just to refresh people who didn't see the April of 2022 episode, you were doing very well for a poet.

01:19:49.120 You know, it's like very few poets wind up being multi-multi-millionaires, but you were making your bones as a working poet reviewed by the New York Times, important partnerships in the poetry world.

01:20:00.020 Then an ex-girlfriend, with whom you had an affair, started to try to take you down online very successfully and started writing all these poetry organizations, calling you a predator.

01:20:11.760 It was vicious, and it worked because, let's face it, the poetry publications, they're not exactly known for their steely spines.

01:20:20.480 So, you know, we can laugh about it now, but it was extremely traumatic for you.

01:20:25.080 So extreme, yeah, that's the right word, because I didn't just lose this career that I had built.

01:20:32.120 I didn't even realize I had a career until maybe that last year of things going really well, and I knew, wow, I could make money doing this.

01:20:41.600 I can sustain my life doing this.

01:20:44.480 And, yeah, then that was ripped away, but it wasn't just that that went away.

01:20:50.100 It was also my entire, almost my entire friend group, and it just kept rolling out and out over the course of a year.

01:20:58.640 You know, a book would be taken down by one of my publishers, it would be memory hold, but that wasn't enough for this mob of people and this particular ex-girlfriend.

01:21:09.300 And so they would then go to, you know, the next book that hadn't been erased, and they wouldn't stop.

01:21:16.260 It went on for at least a year, and it was devastating.

01:21:21.160 I ended up hospitalized.

01:21:22.120 But I think the important thing to note is that I didn't stop writing throughout that whole nightmare, and it just proved to me that, you know, poetry for me is not about a career in the first place.

01:21:37.360 You know, it's about what it's always been for me, which is survival and being in the world and seeing the world in a way that makes it more livable for me and hopefully for the people who read my work.

01:21:51.040 We discussed it more at length in our first interview, and everyone should go back and listen to that episode.

01:21:56.300 It's as well worth your time.

01:21:57.340 But one of the objections you had was you were being canceled in place after place without them even wanting to hear your side.

01:22:06.360 It was, and she was playing the believe all women card.

01:22:10.100 She actually was writing, you know, in this era of believe women, believe me.

01:22:14.300 And they were without even no even purported attempt at equal justice or allowing a defense.

01:22:22.560 Yeah, that's right.

01:22:24.460 You read parts of that letter out loud the last time we were on, and it's so absurd, and it becomes more absurd as the years go by looking at it.

01:22:34.020 Like, this letter could have been the thing that catapulted the attempted destruction of my life.

01:22:40.820 It's so ridiculous.

01:22:41.900 I was accused of calling a woman hot at a poetry reading, and that was enough to, it was like a fly trap.

01:22:48.620 It's like all the people from my past, even though I made amends and changed my life, because I was, you know, I was quite a bad drunk in my 20s, but not a predator by any means.

01:23:02.020 And, yeah, that it was that effective is shocking.

01:23:07.740 It's shocking that poets would behave, like, you know, with such herd mentality, because I never imagined poets behaving that way.

01:23:18.200 I always thought poets were mavericks and people who stood out and stood against, you know, the current.

01:23:26.120 But that's not the case anymore.

01:23:29.180 This is a weird question, maybe, but first of all, I totally understand and can relate to, as the years go by, post-cancellation, you start to see how absurd the thing was.

01:23:40.900 Like, my God, how does such a thing upend my life so dramatically?

01:23:45.920 But it's hard to have that perspective in the moment when you're losing so much that's important to you, right?

01:23:51.560 I get that, and that is one benefit of time.

01:23:55.620 But my weird question is, do you think in any way, because, you know, artists who've been through painful things, it can help their art.

01:24:03.860 Have you experienced that at all?

01:24:05.180 Absolutely, yes.

01:24:08.140 Yeah, because having only poetry to rely on for a sense of self, because my, well, I hate to use the word identity, but my identity, my sense of self was threatened to be, you know, totally atomized and fragmented beyond recognition by the cancellation.

01:24:31.380 But by writing poetry, I was reminded of who I am, and I dedicated my life to poetry at a very young age.

01:24:38.740 And so the work became very concentrated, and I noticed that certain things I let myself get away with in poetry in the past and writing, you know, they went away because the stakes were so high.

01:24:53.160 It was life or death for me, and poetry kept me alive through those horrible, horrible months of just utter destruction.

01:25:01.800 The, you know, it's been years now.

01:25:06.060 Did any of the friends come back?

01:25:08.140 Because you've gotten more outspoken on Twitter.

01:25:10.180 I love, love, love your Twitter account.

01:25:12.140 I did a big promo for that last year.

01:25:13.760 I still love it.

01:25:15.260 You're scrolling along your timeline.

01:25:17.320 It's like, F you, no, F you, F you.

01:25:20.180 And then you see a Joseph Massey tweet, which has got something beautiful for you, because your photography is equally beautiful, where you just get these little moments of like the reflection of this gorgeous building in a puddle, or the snow just after it's fallen, just so.

01:25:33.320 And these things that we all see all the time, we take a moment, ideally, and we notice it, but we don't memorialize it.

01:25:39.320 And you bring that into my daily timeline, which is one of the things I love about you.

01:25:43.000 But you also do tweet about politics.

01:25:45.100 You're very anti-cancel culture.

01:25:47.280 You've been critical of the Biden administration.

01:25:49.100 So I'm going to guess the friends didn't come back, because I'm just making an assumption they were leftists.

01:25:54.540 Well, the friends that did come back, you know, or stayed, a few stayed during the cancellation.

01:26:02.580 For example, one who I've been friends with for 15 years, much older poet, certainly I'm not going to name him.

01:26:08.400 But he wouldn't even be seen with me in public during the cancellation.

01:26:14.400 You know, we would have to meet in the back room of the coffee shop or, you know, meet at a bench behind a building, things like that.

01:26:22.140 So nobody really came back.

01:26:24.380 Some people stuck around, but it was in that conditional kind of way.

01:26:27.880 But definitely when I became more outspoken politically on Twitter, those friends went away completely because they were terrified of any kind of guilt by association.

01:26:40.580 And it's not just guilt by association.

01:26:42.720 They're worried their careers would be horribly affected if they were seen communicating with me or seen having coffee with me, as it turned out.

01:26:51.400 So it's I think it's Jay, the initial Jay Massey, M-A-S-S-E-Y poet, right?

01:26:57.700 That's your handle.

01:26:58.880 That's right.

01:26:59.360 Jay Massey poet.

01:27:00.220 Yeah.

01:27:00.560 All right.

01:27:00.800 Jay Massey.

01:27:01.160 Truly, trust me, do it.

01:27:02.700 It'll be the best Twitter follow you've ever you ever had.

01:27:05.540 And nobody else is injecting beauty into my timeline.

01:27:08.180 Literally nobody else.

01:27:09.240 You're the only one.

01:27:10.080 And it can be I know there's I know that you talked about how you were hospitalized and I know you've talked about how it's been a rough time even since you last came on the show.

01:27:20.620 But there's something beautiful about that, too.

01:27:23.340 And I don't mean to sound like I'm reveling in your struggle with depression, but I think a lot of us have those moments, you know, where we feel really blue or you feel hopeless.

01:27:32.500 You know, you look at our society, look around and there's a lot of pain and there's a lot of reason to feel down.

01:27:38.600 And there is something worthwhile about having that feeling also captured and revealed via photography or a poem, too.

01:27:50.340 Do you find that therapeutic?

01:27:53.400 Absolutely.

01:27:54.060 Yeah.

01:27:54.360 I mean, during the well, even before I was canceled, I dealt with major depression is the diagnosis.

01:28:02.360 And when I read art that delves into the artist's depression or sorrow or melancholia, I like that word quite a bit better than depression.

01:28:14.800 It seems to hit the mark.

01:28:16.120 But I always feel less alone.

01:28:20.280 And certainly when I was being canceled, reading, for instance, the work of the poet Ovid, who I think I'm pronouncing that correctly, OVID, who was exiled, reading his poetry written in exile, reading poets who've been cast aside.

01:28:38.620 I had company, you know, I had friends again in the art, you know, in the poetry.

01:28:45.640 And I hope that my work, especially people who are suffering with depression or anxiety, that they can find some kind of similar company in what I do.

01:28:57.140 So, and that's really the aim with the new book, The Light of No Other Hour, was many of those poems were written during a deep spell, one of the deepest spells of depression over the last year, which has broken, thank God.

01:29:12.020 But, yeah, I hope people get it in that way.

01:29:16.000 And it's not therapy, you know, it's not therapy.

01:29:19.040 It's finding a way to live with the sorrow and transcend it, hopefully, by grace.

01:29:25.020 What does The Light of No Other Hour mean?

01:29:29.860 I wanted to find a way to say the present moment or now.

01:29:35.820 How can I say the present moment?

01:29:37.740 Well, The Light of No Other Hour, the light that is cast upon us right now, whether it's night or day, it can be an internal light as well, if you see it from a spiritual perspective, which I certainly do too.

01:29:51.580 But even just very literally, all we have is now, and all we have is the light of this particular moment, the light of no other hour.

01:30:03.080 May I read one of the poems here?

01:30:06.420 I would love that.

01:30:08.060 Okay, I just want people to get a flavor for the beauty of how you write.

01:30:11.860 This one's called The Last Poem.

01:30:15.240 Forgive me, because I'm sure I'm not going to read this the way Joseph Massey would.

01:30:19.480 It is enough to be nothing, porous to what appears.

01:30:24.480 It is enough to sit on a bench and watch a contrail dissolve into dust to make a day of it.

01:30:29.940 It is enough to look in order to see and to know there's a difference.

01:30:34.320 It is enough to walk myself awake in sub-zero wind, snow-blind and heartbroken.

01:30:40.880 It is enough to forget.

01:30:43.040 It is enough to borrow from the dead a voice to sing through, to survive the season.

01:30:48.820 It is enough the poems cramped in the margins of a water-stained notebook, leave them there to be revised by time.

01:30:56.340 It is enough alone at the end of the year, engulfed by a presence I am not compelled to name.

01:31:05.640 I love the way that makes me feel.

01:31:07.860 We get so wrapped into everything, utter stimuli wherever we turn.

01:31:15.080 And you are the antidote to that in all of your postings, your writings, your photography.

01:31:19.800 It is enough.

01:31:20.660 And you live this life, don't you?

01:31:22.960 You live a quiet life.

01:31:24.600 Like, sometimes you tweet about that too, that enables you to remind us that this is okay and this is actually beautiful.

01:31:35.080 You read the poem beautifully, by the way, better than I would have read it, certainly.

01:31:38.820 But, yeah, that's, it's, I don't know how anyone can exist in this world of constant noise, you know, constant bombardment with, you know, news is breaking 24 hours a day.

01:31:53.740 I remember, I'm old enough to remember when, you know, there would be breaking news maybe once every couple of weeks, special report.

01:31:59.260 You know, now it's every second's a special report.

01:32:01.940 And how essential it is to notice the sacred and the ordinary.

01:32:07.700 And if one doesn't do that, how does it affect, how does it affect your quality of life?

01:32:12.460 You know, I know that I need that quiet space and that quiet activity of simply noticing things to ground myself, to be anchored in a world that would otherwise be untenable.

01:32:30.040 Mm-hmm.

01:32:31.400 I remember my primary care physician, who I love, he's quite a character, talking about how one of the things that's important to do is look out the window when you're in the back of a taxi cab or a bus, what have you.

01:32:45.320 Like, stop staring down at your damn phone, always trying to get more information, the latest this, more stimuli.

01:32:56.220 Look at a tree.

01:32:58.280 Look at your fellow humans.

01:33:00.720 You know, do something that will ground you because we can become untethered.

01:33:05.800 Too much time spent in the make-believe leads to an untethering.

01:33:10.240 And the grounding, you know, that you write about in Capture for us, that's an important part of staying human.

01:33:16.760 That's right.

01:33:17.740 Yeah, that's what I want my work to do, to help ground.

01:33:21.840 Not so much to help.

01:33:22.820 That's wrong because it's not therapy.

01:33:24.540 It's not.

01:33:25.940 But to draw the reader into a keener sense of awareness of what's immediately around them.

01:33:33.520 And that, to me, seems to be the task of most artists that I love in various fields, painting, music, poetry.

01:33:46.100 And, yeah, it's absolutely essential.

01:33:49.420 I want people to survive this world and to find grace.

01:33:55.440 Now, is this book self-published like the last one?

01:33:59.280 Yes, it's published by my in-print, The Exile Press, and it's only available on Amazon.

01:34:07.140 Okay, only available on Amazon.

01:34:09.640 It's called The Light of No Other Hour.

01:34:12.720 The Light of No Other Hour.

01:34:14.020 You should add it because it will bring some beauty and thought into your life.

01:34:17.680 And you should add it, buy it, because you want to support Joseph Massey and fight back against these cancellation bullies

01:34:24.440 who annihilate people they don't think have any power.

01:34:28.140 You can subscribe to Joseph Substack.

01:34:30.280 I recommend that, too.

01:34:31.880 Josephmassey.substack, right?

01:34:33.700 It's josephmassey, M-A-S-S-E-Y, .substack.com.

01:34:37.300 And, again, check out his new book.

01:34:38.860 Go to Amazon.com, please.

01:34:40.060 I'm going to do it right after the show.

01:34:41.480 And make sure you buy lots of copies, ideally being a lovely gift.

01:34:44.900 When do you ever give somebody poetry?

01:34:46.440 Father's Day is coming up.

01:34:47.700 The Light of No Other Hour.

01:34:50.200 All the best to you, Joseph.

01:34:51.220 It's wonderful to see you again.

01:34:52.900 Thank you, Megan.

01:34:53.980 Good luck with it all.

01:34:54.820 We will be back tomorrow to continue the conversation with all of you.

01:34:58.600 Thank you for supporting Joseph and Jesse, too.

01:35:01.500 Two guys in two very different places, but equally important in the national conversation.

01:35:05.080 I hope you'll support them.

01:35:08.620 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:35:10.780 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:35:13.340 No BS.

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01:35:15.500 No BS.

01:35:15.520 No BS.

01:35:15.560 No BS.

01:35:15.940 No BS.

01:35:16.000 No BS.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - June 06, 2023

Outrageous Casey DeSantis Attacks, CNN's Whiny Newsroom, and Surviving Cancelation, with Jesse Kelly and Joseph Massey ｜ Ep. 566

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