Pence and Harris Debate, with Charles C.W. Cooke, Krystal Ball, and Saagar Enjeti
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Summary
After the Vice Presidential Debates, some question whether there will be a second debate between Mike Pence and Kamala Harris in 2020. Megyn Kelly and Steve Krakauer break down what they liked and didn't like about the first debate, and whether a second one will happen.
Transcript
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Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
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Today, the vice presidential debate, and will there be a second presidential debate?
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Coming up today, Charles C.W. Cook, Crystal Ball, and Sagar Anjeti, all with their thoughts
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Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, and what a debate last night.
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I thought it got a little tedious at times, but overall, I thought the moderator did a
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fair job, and the candidates, well, we're going to talk about it.
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He's my executive producer here on the show, and he's also the editor and writer of the
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newsletter, Fourth Watch, which is well worth your time, by the way, because he's sort of
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Steve, so I thought, on balance, that the candidates were generally respectful of one
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There were no meltdowns like we saw in debate number one between the top dogs.
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It was a little boring, and my mind started to wander about, I don't know, an hour in,
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And I thought the moderator, Susan Page, was fair.
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I don't think any criticisms of her today as being biased toward one side or the other
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I went back and looked at every single question in the transcript, and she was right down
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the middle, and she was pretty vanilla in the way she phrased the question.
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You know, Obamacare, China, trade, COVID, the economy, fracking, climate change, I mentioned.
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Maybe the topic selection leaned left a little, but not enough to really criticize Susan Page.
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I will say it seemed that she was very interested in two things, in asking her questions, which I
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thought they were good questions, not really super interested in the answers and whether
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the candidates actually answered the questions.
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I would say both sides, Mike Pence and Kamala Harris, didn't exactly give a straight answer
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to two specific questions, and there was no follow-up to press for that.
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That's because she was scared, you know what, Liz, that she was going to lose control,
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You know, you could see the fear in her eyes, like, oh, God, I don't want the train to go
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Yeah, I think, you know, it was a little different scenario now that President Trump was not up
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there, you know, stirring the pot a little bit, or maybe it was the plexiglass that was
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between them that really kept it a little bit more subdued.
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But there was that, but she also really did seem obsessed with keeping fair time, which
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CNN actually timed it that they spoke almost exactly the same amount of time, while ABC
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had it that Kamala Harris spoke more and CBS had it that Mike Pence spoke three minutes
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So I don't know how we all, you know, do our timing, but she was very, I thought she
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did a good job of really trying to keep it balanced in terms of the speaking time, at
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But I will say, as a moderator myself, some of those moments were frustrating.
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I liked that she left it up to the candidates to beat up on one another.
0.96
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And, but there were a couple of moments where I would have loved if she just would have given
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us a moment of, so what is the answer, yes or no?
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Just quick, like just quick, put it right to them.
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And if they dodge again, don't let them complete the answer with a long dodge.
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And I think the audience would have benefited from it.
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No, the only one who did that actually was Mike Pence.
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I mean, you know, in trying to press for a specific answer.
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On the Supreme Court, which we're going to get to in a minute.
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Um, I thought, you know, overall, since I thought Pence was very strong on policy, she
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But I thought without a knockout blow, without like the massive fall down by either candidate,
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you'd have to give the win to her because her, her side is winning in the polls.
1.00
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So, you know, the question is whether this could change the dynamic of the race.
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And I think like most vice presidential debates, it, it didn't.
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So if you wanted to sort of say, well, it was a wash, that's not necessarily great for
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team Trump because they would have preferred a knockout blow where they really changed the
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Especially considering, and I know you're going to get to this also later on the, uh, the
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news this morning that I don't know exactly how many more debates we're going to be getting.
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You need to make the most of every opportunity here.
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The CNN post-debate poll, uh, had the pre-debate numbers versus the post-debate numbers for
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Pence and Kamala Harris, almost identical in the sense that not a single, you know, person
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actually moved from, from before to after, which is not exactly surprising, uh, but, uh,
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Well, and I think some people on the democratic side saw what they wanted to see and same
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on the Republican side with respect to their attitudes in that debate, which, which we'll
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get to, but, you know, Frank Luntz had a focus group that was very focused on, among
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other things, Kamala Harris's interruptions or her, her eye rolls and her, her sort of
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scoffing at some of Mike Pence's answers and things like that can, can affect a voter's
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willingness to side with you or their, the amount that they like you, right?
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If you're too boisterous or too much of a bully, like we saw with Trump in debate number
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And if you're too nasty or smug that I had a vote on the, uh, guest on the Kelly file
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who I loved, she was a Democrat, but she constantly rolled her eyes at the other side's answers.
1.00
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And I pulled her aside to say, you don't want to see seem smug or angry because you're going
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They're not going to listen to you when I get to you.
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And, uh, she mastered it for a while and then never quite nailed it, but you always have
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You have to worry about how you look when you're not speaking and what signals you're
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Especially in a, in a format like this, where there are no one shots, right?
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You see the reaction from the other candidate to what the candidate who's speaking is actually
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It's the, the, the, you know, the sort of the broadcasting side of it that that's interesting
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No, I think, you know, even just some of the, the, the post debate reaction was watching
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Abby Phillips said she should have pushed back in certain ways.
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Dana Bash said she didn't get a lot of help from the moderator.
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So I don't, I don't know why she would get help from the moderator, but that was, that
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was notable, which all sort of translates to me that, you know, Harris did fine, but
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Well, I think, you know, one of the things I tweeted about was she had some, she had several
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strong answers on the points, but I was distracted by the head shaking in response while he was
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And I know she was trying to signal, I disagree, or he's not telling the truth, but it, it had
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Um, you, you actually were tweeting a lot during the debate.
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Uh, and, and I have to say, I went to bed last night.
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I said, all right, I'm going to pull the tweet that had the most retweets and talk about it
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That was you tweeting Pence is so much better than Trump at defending Trump.
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And then I wake up this morning and you're, you're trending nationally on Twitter for a
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different tweet, which was take it like a woman don't make faces, which apparently
1.00
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Like, uh, I'll just give you an example, like Bill Burton of one who says, uh, be better,
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Megan expressing disgusted lies, deception, and constantly being talked over is worth reaction.
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The point is not whether he was in fact misleading.
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The point is what message are you sending to the audience at home?
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You want to project calm, cool, controlled, and ready to go when it's your turn, you know,
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respectful of the process and ready to go when it's your turn.
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You know, there are a lot of moments in these presidential debates where you could be doing
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that, but most not, let's put the first presidential debate of this cycle to the side,
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but usually the candidates will try to maintain their poker face until you get to them out of
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respect for the audience who is trying to listen and doesn't want to see scoffing.
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And I think between the head shaking and she had a couple of, you know, the thing about
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I'm speaking, I'm speaking when she first did it, I liked it because I do think when
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you get interrupted and it does happen a lot to women in the boardrooms and so on, I do
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An attempted feminist moment or it, she was clearly trying to project like, you're rude.
1.00
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Like at least switch it up to one sec or just let me finish or I'm not quite done.
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Just, just like squeezing alternatives because it started to seem like an obviously rehearsed
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And then it got the reaction from, you know, people like George Stephanopoulos who called
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Was there, was there a debate reaction that stood out to you?
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But at one more point on Kamala, the other thing she was saying was I will not be lectured
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And it was just, I think she was dying for him to do something really sexist and he didn't.
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And so she had her little lines ready to go, but she was unleashing them on the wrong target.
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She thought she was going to debate Donald Trump, who was going to be his normal self.
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And she had a gentleman sitting over there who was debating her like she might be the future
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Uh, and, and, you know, George Stephanopoulos may have said, yeah, vice president who may have
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said, George Stephanopoulos said she, that he was mansplaining to her.
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And to her credit, Martha Raddatz interrupted and said, no, women can be interrupted too.
1.00
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She wants to be vice president and women don't get to be treated in a special, in a special
1.00
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What's what equality means is you get punched in the face, just like the other guy gets punched
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Take it like a woman instead of how they always say, take it like a man.
0.98
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My point was women can easily maintain composure, maintain facial expressions and hold their cards
1.00
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to the vest until it's their turn on the, on the debate stage, just like a man can.
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And she needed to do that because today people are talking about her facial expressions instead
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The reactions to the debate, as I said, they, they fell along party lines, but I, once again,
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I was channel surfing around and I couldn't believe first what I heard from Gail King on CBS
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One point when they were talking about systemic racism, I think it's very interesting timing
00:10:47.580
that a fly would land on Mike Pence's head at that particular time when he said that there
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That was, I don't want to call that a highlight, but that was certainly a memorable moment.
00:11:04.240
A memorable moment for Gail King was the fly saying, say what?
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Oh my God, like she actually treated it as if it were a thing, that there was a message
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that God sent the fly down to pass judgment on Mike Pence and, and comments about white
00:11:22.260
I Twitter love the fly, but I don't understand how the fly made it into any post debate, like
00:11:26.800
actual television coverage, but it did everywhere.
00:11:29.980
Well, and how did it make it into the room, which I'd been told has had been hermetically
00:11:33.580
sealed, people were basically forced to wear hazmat suits until the moment they began to
00:11:39.320
They were, they truly continued to treat COVID like it is the bubonic plague.
00:11:43.620
I realized we need to take precautions, but how many layers could they have had between
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the people who are already 12 feet apart on that stage?
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You tell me whether, whether this comment was a bit loaded.
00:11:59.540
The problem tonight is that vice president Pence appeared flaccid and anemic, and that's
00:12:07.180
Then she went on to add, not just flaccid, but limp and lame.
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You know, it's really, it really leaves a lot to the imagination.
00:12:22.400
No, I think, are they just trying to come up with what's the, like the worst insult they
00:12:26.000
can level at Mike Pence and say on television, I guess?
00:12:28.420
Well, yeah, I mean, even going there, obviously everybody knows what they're trying to say.
00:12:38.280
He's not somebody who could get it done in the bedroom or in the boardroom or in the
00:12:43.580
I mean, that's the, that's what they're telegraphing with that, the use of those words over and
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And if any similar remarks had been made about a woman, everyone, everyone would be crying
00:12:55.300
Uh, but the truth is Mike Pence was controlled.
00:12:59.520
It's like you almost can't win because if you're interrupting and all fiery and energetic
00:13:04.080
the way Trump always is, they say you're a bully.
00:13:06.240
And if you're a gentleman who's controlled and just measured the way Mike Pence always
00:13:16.260
Yeah, that was, that was, uh, not shocking from MSNBC, but, uh, but it was sort of surprising
00:13:21.580
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Charles C.W. Cook is NationalReview.com editor and an amazing, brilliant writer, and I always
00:15:02.440
love listening to you on the podcast, The Editors, Charles, because your takes are always so
00:15:08.460
And what are your thoughts on what we saw last night?
00:15:12.100
It was certainly different than the presidential debate that we saw recently.
00:15:20.060
I watched this in a cigar bar, and at points you couldn't hear it, and I thought that that
00:15:29.200
was almost as interesting as when you could, in that Kamala Harris came across to me badly
00:15:42.320
Now, I should say, your audience probably won't know who I am.
00:15:53.740
She's an authoritarian, and on every single issue, she ticks the wrong box for me.
00:16:06.520
The Trump campaign has been weak on healthcare, and that's because they don't have a plan.
00:16:09.740
And he wasn't especially convincing on coronavirus.
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But other than that, I thought he did better than she did.
00:16:17.120
And I think she comes across badly, both when she's speaking and when she's not.
00:16:24.260
What did you make of the head shaking, the I'm speaking, and I will not be lectured to
00:16:32.320
Well, if you remember back to the presidential primaries, when they were parodied by SNL,
00:16:41.120
the Kamala Harris character was constantly trying to create memes, quite literally on those skits.
1.00
00:16:47.240
She would move her head into the shot, and the background would be a famous meme.
00:16:52.680
And this is something that she's got a bit of a reputation for.
1.00
00:17:05.520
I mean, she almost behaved as if she were debating Donald Trump.
00:17:10.240
Now, that behavior from Harris would have been appropriate against Trump because his behavior
00:17:18.160
I mean, irrespective of whether Pence is a gentleman or limp, choose your own adventure,
00:17:24.900
He doesn't interrupt rudely, try to shut people down, try to dominate.
00:17:30.040
The interruptions and crosstalk were fairly normal.
00:17:33.780
And I thought she had decided ahead of time that she was going to keep doing that so that
00:17:38.020
a certain subset, many of whom are in the media, would say, oh, look, you go, girl.
00:17:43.700
But to me, it just came across as fake and actually weak.
00:17:49.300
I thought the exchange of the night was on the Supreme Court.
00:17:53.640
And for once, someone and it was Mike Pence really tried to push her on whether the Biden
00:18:00.900
Harris ticket is going to pack the Supreme Court if they win, which is a huge, huge deal.
00:18:06.580
I know we've gotten a short form in the media now, but the audience needs to understand if
00:18:11.400
they get in there and add three justices to the U.S.
00:18:15.820
It will be over as a credible institution in the United States.
00:18:19.840
So you're you're basically talking about rendering ineffective the leading court in the third
00:18:28.360
And the fact that they keep getting away with dodging on it when Kamala Harris said in the
00:18:34.260
primary process that she is open to packing the court, she told that to The New York Times.
00:18:49.020
So I think the American people would really like to know if Judge Amy Coney Barrett is
00:18:53.700
confirmed at the Supreme Court of the United States, are you and Joe Biden, if somehow you win this
00:18:58.920
election, going to pack the Supreme Court to get your way?
00:19:02.520
I'm so glad we went through a little history lesson.
00:19:18.920
And even though she was saying, OK, let's talk about packing, after the third time he tried to make
00:19:24.000
her answer, what she answered was, President Trump has appointed 50 federal judges, not one of them
00:19:30.180
as black. So we never we never got an answer, Charles.
00:19:33.960
No. And her history lesson was false, as Dan McLaughlin at National Review pointed out last night.
00:19:40.500
I'm glad you introduced this subject the way that you did, because I feel often as if this is talked
00:19:46.340
about as if it were a minor policy dispute, excise tax rates or insurance reimbursement rates.
00:19:53.080
It's not. This is an extraordinary proposal. This would be the most radical change to the
00:20:01.260
American system of government in at least a century. When it was last proposed by Franklin
00:20:06.500
Roosevelt, his own party didn't just reject it, but said, this is tyranny. This is the worst thing
00:20:12.020
that has ever been presented in the Senate. And bear in mind, his own party had three quarters of the
00:20:18.040
seats in the Senate and in the House. He'd won 46 out of 48 states. So it's extraordinary enough
00:20:24.020
that there are people in America in public office who are proposing this. But then not to say whether
00:20:30.240
you support it or not is, I think, the biggest story of the election. Now, President Trump very often
00:20:36.300
says terrible things, things that I have written against him on for four, five years. He's bad on the
00:20:44.060
First Amendment. He hasn't done anything, thankfully, but he says terrible things about it.
00:20:47.500
He says he doesn't know whether he'll accept the election result. He dismisses the Constitution
00:20:53.900
when it doesn't suit him. He'll ambass the Supreme Court when it rules against him.
00:20:58.840
This is bad, but it pales in comparison to this proposal, which, remember, would not just blow up
00:21:05.600
the judicial branch, as you say, but as a prerequisite, would blow up the Senate, because you can't do this
00:21:11.860
without abolishing the filibuster, which would change the way the Senate has worked for more than a
00:21:16.160
century and put a lot more power to affect Americans' lives, regardless of the state they
00:21:22.560
live in, in Washington's hands without mass buy-in. So this is enormous. And I find it deeply,
00:21:30.500
deeply alarming that neither Joe Biden nor Kamala Harris have an answer for it.
00:21:34.780
What did you make about the moment? Another moment that's making news for probably the wrong reasons
00:21:41.180
is it happened when the fly went on Mike Pence's head. And she was attacking him and President Trump
00:21:49.260
on the issue of white supremacy again. And once again, she said, Trump stood on a debate stage and
00:21:56.740
refused to condemn white supremacy, referring to the last debate where he was asked, will you condemn it?
00:22:02.820
He said, sure. Then they said, do it, do it. And then they got in the Proud Boys exchange and then
00:22:07.820
said, reference back to his Charlottesville comment that there were, quote, fine people on both sides.
00:22:13.240
To me, it is annoying because if you go back and look at what President Trump said about Charlottesville
00:22:21.280
and what happened there that day, he did say there are fine people on both sides. And he was talking
00:22:27.280
about protesters who were there in response to taking down a Robert E. Lee statue. And his point
00:22:35.520
was, some people don't like that. Some people don't like the scrubbing of American history.
00:22:40.200
And he went on to say that day, and I quote, I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white
00:22:45.620
nationalists. I'm not. He made that clear. But he gave them enough, you know, I don't know,
00:22:51.320
he gave them enough that they've used it against him at every turn. And we see it in every presidential
00:22:55.280
debate. I just don't know whether anybody's ever adequately debunked it.
00:23:00.520
Well, it's difficult to debunk because they keep asking and keep asking. And Trump, since he first
00:23:06.520
entered politics in 2000, has condemned white supremacy about 20 times, mostly in unequivocal
00:23:12.640
terms. Now, he is oddly, on every topic, incoherent. He's not a man who, unlike Mike Pence,
00:23:20.960
strings, strings paragraphs together. But there's really no evidence that Donald Trump is a white
00:23:28.220
supremacist. I think this is more of a media construction. I noticed after the debate with
00:23:34.680
Joe Biden, CNN went within about three or four hours from declined to condemn, to refused to condemn,
00:23:44.080
to actively courted. This is narrative building. Now, there are times when Trump needs to be called
00:23:52.720
out. Absolutely. For example, when he criticized Judge Curiel and said that he would be unable to
00:23:59.160
give Trump fair treatment because he was of Mexican origin, that was outrageous. That was racism.
00:24:05.580
I think Paul Ryan called it a textbook example of racism. There's no need to invent or endlessly hype
00:24:12.360
this. And, you know, I think it is alarming that they keep asking this question over and over and
00:24:20.120
over again, even when they get an answer to it, rather than asking questions that really, really
00:24:25.780
matter. A good one to follow up with over and over again would be, what do you mean you won't
00:24:30.300
necessarily respect the outcome of the election? That would be a great one to push and push on,
00:24:34.600
because he said this now twice this year, and he said it once in 2016 during a debate with Hillary
00:24:40.340
Clinton. It's obviously not up to him whether he gets to remain president. But I want to know what
00:24:44.960
that means in practice. And yet we fixate on this, which is really a chimera.
00:24:50.980
Well, I've listened to you on the editors from National Review. And one of the points you make
00:24:56.160
about Trump is a frustration of yours with him is he's really not that eloquent. And right now,
00:25:03.880
the past few months, we've seen America itself, the idea of America come under attack time and time
00:25:10.020
again. It's systemically racist. The lies of the 1619 project, that it was formed in order to
00:25:16.280
perpetuate slavery, things that they're trying to undo now quietly at the New York Times without being
00:25:21.500
honest about their mistakes. And Nicole Hannah-Jones, who wrote it, the same, that now there's a group
00:25:26.260
pushing for her to be her Pulitzer Prize to be taken away. But anyway, your frustration is you would
00:25:32.140
love to see a Reagan type go out there and really defend some of these principles and talk about why
00:25:38.020
they're important. In watching Pence last night, I thought, he could be your guy. I sent out a tweet
00:25:43.940
saying, you know, it's amazing to me how much better Pence is than Trump at defending Trump.
00:25:53.440
And you don't need Mike Pence necessarily. You need almost anyone who isn't President Trump. This is one of
00:26:00.220
the real frustrations of the moment in that there is a strong case for President Trump as a check on an
00:26:08.820
increasingly crazy left wing in America, a left wing that doesn't just consist of the Democratic Party,
00:26:16.420
which has moved far and far and far away from the Clintonian era Democratic Party. But in the media and
00:26:24.540
in academia and in Hollywood, there is an argument, look, we need somebody who will act as a check on
00:26:30.520
that. And it's just odd to me that it's Trump. Now, there's not much choice. Trump is the nominee. He is
00:26:37.500
the president. But almost anyone else would first be more eloquent, would do his reading, would take it
00:26:44.340
seriously, would watch his words. But two, would care about his position. Part of my frustration
00:26:53.400
is not just Trump's ineloquence and unwillingness to work hard, but is that he is at the head of this
00:27:00.420
movement of people who care very deeply about a whole host of issues. And he likes to present
00:27:06.960
himself as the guy standing in the breach. And yet he is so capricious that he seems unlikely to prevail.
00:27:19.520
So yeah, I'd much rather someone else were there who could do this well, but also would not waste his
00:27:27.960
chance and alienate half the country with stupid shenanigans when it really does matter who prevails
00:27:37.460
in this fight. To me, I thought Vice President Pence put some meat on the bones of the top line that we
00:27:43.720
get from Trump. And it was interesting to listen to him and for him to drill down a little, pardon the pun,
00:27:48.460
on things like the Biden-Harris position on fracking. You know, he stayed on them. And I learned some stuff
00:27:56.100
last night, which I can't say about the first debate. Can I ask you about whether you think that he's really
00:28:02.580
not going to do this next debate? You know, that broke this morning that Trump is saying, apparently the
00:28:08.360
presidential commission unilaterally said the next presidential debate is going virtual without consulting with the
00:28:14.080
candidates in the campaigns, which is, if true, a problem. And Trump responded, that's pathetic, and I'm not
00:28:23.560
Well, it's difficult to try to get into Trump's mind. I assume he thinks he has some leverage here,
00:28:32.260
which he does. Although it's arguably worse for Trump if there's no second debate, because Trump's losing.
00:28:41.240
And he needs to make up ground. And it would probably be better for him if the more recent
00:28:50.960
impression of the candidate in the minds of people entering the voting booth were at a second debate
00:28:56.440
in which he was more respectful and more direct, rather than that debacle that we saw last time around.
00:29:04.780
Trump's a guy who tries to negotiate every single question. That's how he operated as a businessman.
00:29:13.220
And I assume that's what he's doing here. I hope it is because he needs that debate to have any chance,
00:29:25.560
Yeah, I don't think there's any way he doesn't do the debate. But I am reminded of the 2015-16
00:29:33.640
election cycle where he was mad at me about my question to him on the women at the first debate
00:29:39.360
Fox hosted. And then he said, if I wasn't going to be pulled as a moderator by the next debate,
00:29:44.080
he wasn't going to show up. And we thought, oh, bull. And right up to the moment, I mean,
00:29:48.480
we're talking 15 minutes before we went on air that night, Brett Baer, Chris Wallace,
00:29:52.020
and I were all thinking, he's going to come. He's going to come in, you know, underdog to save the
00:29:56.900
day at the last second with a helicopter drop. And we had a podium ready to go out on stage for him.
00:30:03.280
And we all had questions for him. And he did not show. So anything is possible with him.
00:30:10.920
As we have learned over and over. I mean, this is the story of President Trump right from the
00:30:15.700
beginning. I didn't think that he would be the nominee. I didn't think that he would be elected.
00:30:19.980
At every stage along the road, I thought, well, he must change. Surely he can't be this chaotic.
00:30:27.140
Surely the office that he has won will change him. You know, if I were president, which of course I
00:30:33.600
can't be and don't want to be, but if I were president, I would spend all of my time in the
00:30:37.460
White House feeling as if Abraham Lincoln's eyes were following me around the room. And,
00:30:43.260
you know, the city is called Washington. This would have an effect on me, but it hasn't on him.
00:30:48.420
He doesn't play by the rules. He's not going to change. Yeah, this is what you've got. So who
00:30:55.260
knows? But it would be to his disadvantage. To put it in terms he would understand, it would be a
00:30:59.860
bad deal for him if he backed out. Yeah. And one of the effective negotiation tactics in any deal
00:31:05.280
is to be willing to walk away, to actually be willing to walk away, which I imagine he is. And
00:31:10.180
he's played that card right away. And now we'll see that. I don't think the Commission on
00:31:13.740
presidential debates is really known for its strength and and fortitude. So I'm going to guess
00:31:20.340
they're going to cave quickly. We'll see how. OK, lastly, can we talk about the polls? Some of the
00:31:26.380
polls that have come out, I just don't believe there was a Quinnipiac poll saying Biden's up 11
00:31:31.640
in Florida. I don't believe that. And up 13 in Pennsylvania. I just there is no way Biden is up
00:31:38.960
11 in Florida. I just like, no, even the Florida pollsters down there saying no. But he's also
00:31:45.580
behind Trump is in virtually every poll in these major swing states. And now there are some reports
00:31:50.900
that they may be scaling back on advertising in places like Wisconsin and even Ohio. So what is
00:31:58.060
the state of the race today? I think Joe Biden is winning the race. The national polls are catastrophic
00:32:05.360
for Trump. The state polls are closer. I mean, this morning, he's still up half a percentage point
00:32:11.200
over where he was at this stage in 2016. And that's not because it's four years ago, there was
00:32:16.700
the excess Hollywood tape. This has been broadly true for the last two weeks. Now, of course, you have
00:32:21.920
to average those out doesn't do much good if he's winning in one state, but getting blown out in
00:32:26.480
another. But it is a lot closer at the state level. And those polls are really noisy. I mean, he's not
00:32:32.180
losing by 11 in Florida, as you say. There is another poll in Florida recently that had it tied.
00:32:38.580
It was one two weeks ago that had him up four. The same is true in Pennsylvania and Ohio and North
00:32:44.600
Carolina. And to an extent, Arizona, oddly, the most recent poll out of Arizona has Trump only down two.
00:32:52.760
So I suppose the answer to the question is, I don't know. But if you are down in pretty much
00:32:58.820
every single averaged poll in every single state you need to win, you're losing the race unless there
00:33:05.840
is an astonishing mistake with the way polls are conducted across every single polling firm,
00:33:13.240
across every single region. And that was to some extent true with the state polls in 2016 and 2018.
00:33:20.260
But I don't think it was true enough to have him winning if the race stays as it is today.
00:33:26.160
The biggest question in this race is how big is the shy Trump vote? How big is it? And is it going
00:33:32.520
to be enough as it was last time to get him over the hump? Okay, so I want you to stick around. Normally,
00:33:38.160
I'd be saying goodbye to you now. But just stick around with me for one second, because we do this
00:33:41.140
feature on the show called You Can't Say That. It's a nod to cancel culture. You can't say that. You
00:33:46.940
can't think that. You can't be that. Oh, wait, this is America. So the late, I want you to stay
00:33:51.960
because you wrote my favorite column of the of the past month by anyone on this particular issue,
00:33:57.160
which also caught my eye. So here's what happened for the audience. There's a writer for Inside Higher
00:34:02.680
Education who wrote a column called Why America Needs College Football. And it featured examples of
00:34:08.300
how college football can can help Americans get through this this difficult time we're going through.
00:34:13.300
Well, apparently that's racist. And this guy, I guess, was forced to issue a very somber apology.
00:34:22.880
And he did it in a follow up column. I'll just give you a couple quotes so you get the feel.
00:34:27.760
Here's a quote. I am sorry for the hurt, sadness, frustration, fatigue, exhaustion and pain this article
00:34:35.120
has caused anyone, but specifically black students. I am struggling to find the words to communicate the
1.00
00:34:41.300
deep ache for the damage I have done. I don't want to write anything that further deepens the pain
00:34:46.180
experienced by my ignorance related to black male athletes in the black community at any time,
00:34:51.240
but especially in light of the national racial unrest. Your thoughts on that one, Charles?
00:34:58.420
Well, I should start by saying that even if this person had written something genuinely offensive,
00:35:05.680
this apology would be over the top. Now, this is redolent of the sort of concessions you would expect from
00:35:13.180
somebody under torture or in a Maoist apology camp. But what he actually wrote was that football might help us
00:35:26.080
get through these uncharacteristically difficult times. College football holds a special bipartisan place in the
00:35:33.600
American heart. Bear in mind, he's writing this from Ohio State. This is not some random school. This is
00:35:40.020
the football school. And he said in the piece that football gives players a platform to make statements
00:35:47.320
about issues they care about. I mean, he mentioned racial equality. He talked about athletes kneeling to
00:35:53.060
protest police brutality. He said colleges should empower athletes to do this. I mean, this was not some
00:36:00.260
insane racist rant. This was a very normal, very well measured piece from a professor at Ohio State
00:36:12.200
saying people in Ohio like watching football, it will be great when it comes back. That it has spawned
00:36:20.680
Yeah, because you not only have to apologize, there has to be the period of self-flagellation,
00:36:25.840
and it better be real, as Professor Matthew Mayhew just found out. Your response, which I recommend
00:36:32.020
as a read for everyone, I tweeted it out, but you can also see it at National Review. This is a quote from
00:36:37.800
your piece. This professor has managed to pen a piece of craven absurdity so perfect in scale and composition
00:36:43.920
that it is difficult to imagine how it might ever be topped. But this is what you have to do, right?
00:36:49.920
Now maybe this guy will keep his job because he really, really, really bent the knee. He bent every
00:36:57.480
Yeah. And you know what I find so sinister about it as well is that anyone who is not sucked into this
00:37:04.020
way of thinking can see the power dynamics that are underplaying it. In that as recompense for his
00:37:12.660
saying college football is popular, he's promised to
00:37:17.400
put himself under the tutelage of some other professors
00:37:21.640
at the university, who presumably will give him all of the correct opinions that he will now have to follow
00:37:28.260
and say out loud, that's not what a university is for.
00:37:32.800
And that's not why we have a free culture in the United States.
00:37:40.740
approach. And the fact that his immediate instinct was to say,
00:37:46.740
okay, I will go away, unlearn everything that I have ever learned. Again, what he has to unlearn is
00:37:51.360
that people like college football. And he will throw himself at the mercy of others who will tell him
00:37:58.200
what is right. And then for the rest of his life, presumably, he will hew to their ideas. I think that's
00:38:04.860
terrifying. That is the opposite of what we should want America to be.
00:38:09.100
Mm hmm. We have to start standing up and just saying I refuse, I disagree. And I'm I won't be
00:38:15.380
saying what you want me to say. Yeah, Charles, such a pleasure. As always, thank you so much for being
00:38:26.420
Joining me now, Crystal Ball and Sagar and Jetty of Rising on The Hill dot com, which is well worth
00:38:31.860
your time. You can see it on YouTube. Guys, thank you so much for being here. So let me start with
00:38:35.640
you, Crystal. What did you think was the most important moment last night?
00:38:39.500
So overall, it was actually sort of weird how normal the debate was, like two very conventional,
00:38:49.560
very traditional politicians trading talking points. And I think like, let's be clear,
00:38:54.140
no minds were majorly made up last night. It's not going to be a game changing kind of event.
00:38:59.880
But I thought Kamala's opening answer, which she had clearly carefully prepared about coronavirus
00:39:06.360
was her strongest of the night. And ultimately, I think is also what the election is going to boil
00:39:11.900
down to. OK, I think we have that. Let's listen. What would a Biden administration do in January and
00:39:17.860
February that a Trump administration wouldn't do? Would you impose new lockdowns for businesses and
00:39:24.220
schools and hotspots? A federal mandate to wear masks? You have two minutes to respond without
00:39:29.840
interruption. Thank you, Susan. Well, the American people have witnessed what is the greatest failure
00:39:37.680
of any presidential administration in the history of our country. And here are the facts.
00:39:44.800
210,000 dead people in our country in just the last several months. Over 7 million people who have
00:39:51.840
contracted this disease. One in five businesses closed. We're looking at frontline workers who have
00:39:59.660
been treated like sacrificial workers. We are looking at over 30 million people who in the last
00:40:08.260
several months had to file for unemployment. And here's the thing. On January 28th, the vice president
00:40:17.020
and the president were informed about the nature of this pandemic. They were informed that it's lethal
00:40:22.500
in consequence, that it is airborne. And she went on. I thought that was a strong answer, too. And I
00:40:29.620
thought in general her best stuff of the night was on COVID. Absolutely. And look, it's the top issue for
00:40:36.000
Americans, COVID and the economy. She pulled them both together. And this is the reason why the bottom
00:40:42.220
has fallen out of Trump's numbers. It's the first thing in his presidency where he really can't talk
00:40:46.660
his way out of it. Mike Pence did the best job that he could defending their record, but honestly,
00:40:52.300
he doesn't have a lot of a leg to stand on at this point, given how impacted people's lives have been
00:40:56.860
and given the fact they pulled the plug on any stimulus this week. The moment of the night for her,
00:41:02.300
as far as I saw it, was it came right after that when she said to him something to the effect of how
00:41:08.400
can you keep the country safe when you couldn't even keep your own White House safe? And he said,
00:41:13.080
we have boundless confidence in the American people and sort of put it on individual responsibility.
00:41:18.600
And she responded, you respect the American people when you tell them the truth.
00:41:22.760
And it's asking too much of them to not equip them with all the information they need to protect
00:41:28.580
themselves and their families. That she went back to the Bob Woodward interview. And that really was an
00:41:33.380
important moment in this race. In the Bob Woodward interview, it's not the fake news media.
00:41:37.800
It's Bob Woodward with Trump on tape and Trump acknowledging for months. I thought they're
00:41:44.700
being unfair to the guy because a lot of doctors didn't realize how serious this was until we were
00:41:48.940
a couple months in a lot of really well-respected medical professionals. And I gave Trump the benefit
00:41:54.280
of the doubt. But when you hear him on tape saying to Woodward, um, I knew, I knew it's, I know it's
00:42:00.360
really bad and it's bad, not just for adults. It can be bad for kids. He's going down the list
00:42:05.060
and then saying, uh, but I'm, I'm going to, the reason I'm not saying that is because I want to
00:42:09.860
keep people calm. And she, I think did the right thing by trying to zero in on what she sees as the
00:42:15.060
consequences of that. Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, there was an open question, like,
00:42:19.600
is Trump just diluting himself as he's just cherry picking data and like sharing what he actually
00:42:24.560
thinks with the American people. And it's very misleading. Or is he actively like, does he know
00:42:29.580
better? And that's what those tapes ultimately revealed. And yeah, it was the first Trump era
00:42:34.380
book. Like all of these people have written these books to try to make lots of money off of, you
00:42:38.860
know, Trump's infamy and whatever. This was the first one that actually landed because it was him
00:42:43.720
on tape, because it was Woodward and because it was about an issue that people really actually care
00:42:49.380
about. Yeah. I mean, the COVID is definitely what, what happened with COVID in the economy is
00:42:53.080
absolutely what, if Trump loses, what cost him a second term. Sagar, what did you think about
00:42:58.440
last night? Yeah, I take this view of even in the best of times, vice presidential debates are
00:43:04.100
largely irrelevant. And look at us, we're already the morning after in the main news is not about
00:43:08.120
this debate, it's about the next one, which the president says, he's not going to participate in.
00:43:12.680
But we always have to remember that these are the two people who are one heartbeat away from the
00:43:16.380
presidency. And so what I was really looking at are, how do Mike Pence and Kamala Harris kind of
00:43:21.900
conceive of themselves within the realms of their own parties, a lot of people were saying this is kind
00:43:26.980
of the first debate for 2024. I think that's very true. The thing that stuck out to me the most was
00:43:33.080
about Kamala Harris's theory of the democratic party. She was talking and bragging about her
00:43:38.940
coalition. And I expected her to be like, Oh, you know, suburban women and white, you know,
1.00
00:43:43.800
working class men who felt betrayed by the president. No, she went all in on kind of trying to embrace
00:43:49.140
these never Trumpers and more like neocons who frankly, I think created the conditions for this
00:43:54.640
country in the for the election in the country for Trump's election in the first place. So I just
00:44:00.060
thought it was a very revealing moment. President Trump has several times refused to commit himself
00:44:04.720
to a peaceful transfer of power after the election. If your ticket wins, and President Trump refuses to
00:44:11.640
accept a peaceful transfer of power. What steps would you and Vice President Biden then take what would
00:44:18.000
happen next? You have two minutes. So I'll tell you, Joe and I are, I think, particularly proud of
00:44:28.420
the coalition that we've built around our campaign. We probably have one of the broadest coalitions of
00:44:33.920
folks that you've ever seen in a presidential race. Of course, we have the support of Democrats,
00:44:38.340
but also independents and Republicans. In fact, seven members of President George W. Bush's cabinet
00:44:46.260
are supporting our ticket. We have the support of Colin Powell, Cindy McCain, John Kasich,
00:44:55.900
over 500 generals, retired generals and former national security experts and advisors are supporting
00:45:03.800
our campaign. Yeah, so you didn't think that was going to particularly speak to, I don't know,
00:45:09.740
to whom, Sagar, to disaffected Republicans? Yeah, the way the way it plays to me is like, you know,
00:45:14.680
you're trying to win over a Nicole Wallace voter who's already voting for you, or you're trying to
00:45:18.480
appeal, you know, towards that type, basically that type of commentator. And I just couldn't believe,
00:45:23.820
I mean, they own one of the only people who's less popular than Donald Trump is George W. Bush and the
00:45:28.380
invasion of Iraq. And we're talking there about people who worked in his cabinet. We're talking
00:45:32.740
about many of the people that led us into war in the first place. And if you could think of a single
00:45:37.060
event, I mean, I think I boil it down to Iraq and 2008 as to why Donald Trump is president of the
00:45:43.000
United States. And you're talking about people who played central roles in both of those things.
00:45:47.880
I just, I mean, you look and you see how she conceives of the Democratic Party within that
00:45:53.260
realm. And I think that's very profound in terms of what the future of the Republican Party is going
00:45:58.080
to look like, too. Can I also think of that? Yeah, go ahead, Crystal. One thing that is remarkable
00:46:02.760
in this race is that, you know, the Trump-Pence approach to attacking Kamala and Joe has been like,
00:46:10.280
oh, they're these radical socialist leftists. Not only has that not landed, but it has actually,
00:46:17.120
their favorabilities, both of them have gone up over the campaign. And you know how incredibly
00:46:22.380
unusual that is. In that moment, there was an opportunity to launch what is, in my view,
00:46:28.340
a more effective and more potent and more reality-based criticism of Kamala Harris,
00:46:33.260
that she's a tool of the establishment. She's a tool of the donor class. She's a tool of Silicon
0.97
00:46:38.220
Valley and Wall Street. We saw that in her record as California AG. Same thing with Biden. No one
00:46:44.340
believes he's a radical leftist. Like, I wish, Megan, I am a leftist. I want him to be that.
00:46:49.740
He's not. And he's never going to be. No one believes it. But he has been a tool of the corporate
00:46:55.180
establishment. They called him the senator from MBNA because he did the bidding of credit card
00:47:00.260
issuers in the state of Delaware. That was an attack that could have landed. But the way that
00:47:05.340
they've gone about this has actually bolstered the favorability ratings of both Kamala and Joe.
00:47:10.660
Which is- Every time they say Joe Biden is a leftist, Crystal gets little
00:47:20.340
So what did you think? We had a heated debate earlier when we were talking about
00:47:23.380
Kamala Harris and her, she was shaking the head and, you know, I'm speaking, I'm speaking.
00:47:29.520
Just as a quick aside, I was mentioning, my EP Steve told me that I was trending on Twitter
00:47:35.280
for saying, take it like a woman. Stop making faces. Meaning, you know, be stoic. Like, you
0.98
00:47:39.780
can handle this. Like, you don't have to interject with those kinds of faces. And the reaction
00:47:45.920
to that tweet has been insane. My team just told me that the actor Billy Baldwin just tweeted
00:47:51.560
out, don't be gross, Megan. You sound like Harvey Weinstein.
00:47:59.420
Well, you've been now getting attacked by Discount Baldwin.
00:48:03.120
It's so true. I'm like, first of all, spare me any moralizing, any mention of Harvey Weinstein
00:48:10.780
from an industry that protected that predator for years. And honestly, it's like, Mike Pence
00:48:15.300
was not raping Kamala Harris. Mike Pence was not threatening Kamala Harris's career if she
00:48:19.900
didn't do what he wanted or say what he wanted. It's like he was saying things with which she
00:48:24.520
disagreed. She reacted in a way that was distracting and to me seemed petulant. And neither Harris
00:48:30.340
nor any woman is immune from criticism because of our gender. That's true equality. That means
00:48:37.660
It was a real Rorschach test because I thought the first time she did it, I thought it was strong.
00:48:43.300
I thought it was assertive. And it, you know, and for me, it was fine. And look, there are
00:48:47.980
gender dynamics at play. There are race. That is all certainly true. And there's like
00:48:52.520
a tightrope you can walk. But by the way, it's hard for a man to debate a woman in certain ways
00:48:57.500
too, because of those same gender dynamics. When she kept doing it to me, it just, again,
1.00
00:49:02.740
it felt a little rehearsed. It felt a little, you know, t-shirt ready. And it was a funny moment.
00:49:08.040
I watched the CNN coverage afterwards and they were talking a lot about this. And they were like,
00:49:12.760
I think the audience is really going to feel that the moderation was unfair to Kamala and that
00:49:17.260
she really got run over by Pence. And then they put up the speaking time. She actually got more
00:49:22.080
speaking time than vice president Pence. So, you know, there was like such a different perception
00:49:27.260
of what happened than what actually unfolded in my view. Yeah. I couldn't agree more, Megan. It was
00:49:32.560
so nauseating to me watching like Dan Rather and MSNBC and all the immediately afterwards talking about
00:49:39.200
this mansplaining moment. I mean, it's like you said, give me a break. If you're in the vice
00:49:44.020
presidential debate, you're not immune from criticism whatsoever. And it was so obvious
00:49:48.980
she had prepared the Mr. Vice President, I'm speaking line for like t-shirts and yes, queen,
00:49:54.320
you know, mugs to be sold on the Biden website. It was, it was just a joke.
00:49:59.500
Honestly, there was, there's some woman, I don't know her, but her name is Charlotte Clymer and
00:50:03.680
she's got some 300,000 followers on Twitter who tweeted out your male buddies who thought Pence
00:50:08.420
won. They don't like women in power. Sorry. It's so absurd to immediately play these identity cards
1.00
00:50:16.600
when there's any criticism is absurd and people can see right through it. And speaking of media
00:50:21.300
insanity, just looking at the headlines, apparently Steve Schmidt, who is the, the most, I mean,
00:50:27.200
he's the craziest never Trumper you've ever seen. He's like, he, he pushed Sarah Palin through as
00:50:33.140
John McCain's vice presidential nominee and he's never forgiven himself. And he's the self-flagellation
00:50:37.180
that's gone on from that day to this is just, it gains an intensity. But he, he just said to,
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on MSNBC that the fly on Mike Pence's head is a mark of the devil.
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Seems like a really totally even handed and reasonable to make us.
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He's like someone we should be listening to, right?
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No, no. I mean, look, he's trying to sell books or what Lincoln project donations or whatever.
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That's what it all, this is all about money. You know, there's a lot of suburban wine moms out
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there in America who love hearing that. And they'd be like, former McCain staffer says his mark of
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the devil. It really gets them going. But look, and actually, interestingly enough, Chris and I
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were just taking a look at some research, Lincoln project ads, people like Steve Schmidt and Rick
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Wilson and many others, the ads that they're cutting are the least effective ads that are being run
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by Democrats. According to some new analysis we were looking at, you know, it's more effective
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talking about healthcare and the economy. What a shock.
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Who knew? Who knew? Yeah, but they've raked in millions. They've raised so much money. And so,
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yeah, it's not ultimately about winning. And I mean, for me, it's depressing that someone like
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Steve Schmidt, who was, you know, a McCain person and Iraq war and Sarah Palin and all of this is now
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And still, just like Nicole Wallace and Jennifer Rubin of The Washington Post, people are still
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pawning them off as Republicans as somehow like they're fair and balanced because they've got somebody
00:52:00.500
who once had an R after their name on, not so much. Okay, let's look forward. What do we think
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is going to happen with the next debate? Because now Trump is saying, you can pound sand, I'm not
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doing a town hall debate virtually. Yeah, I mean, I actually think it, I'm not sure, Megan, because,
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you know, you interviewed people virtually, we do it every day. It's not, I mean, the flow of the
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conversation versus in person is just so radically different, especially in the current age, like you
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cancel somebody's mic if you're talking over them, and however it would work. And it's also a town
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hall format. I think it's a real loss for a virtual debate. And I think Trump in his, you know, his
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complaint, which was that they can cut you off, I think is correct, which is look, I think if Trump
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wants to go out there and behave exactly the same way he did last time, Godspeed, let him let America
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see exactly the case that they are making. And those town hall debates have made for some famous moments
00:52:51.720
in American politics, the HW debate with George W. Bush, I thought President Obama's 2012 town hall
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was a big moment for him. So if you look back through that, I think Trump actually can excel and
00:53:02.200
has done decently in the town hall format in the past. So it's a bit of a loss, but I think he's
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going to stick to his guns. I don't think it's going to happen. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of, it's
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kind of a terrible landscape for him, because virtual is not good for him. I mean, clearly, he will be
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diminished by that. And yeah, they'll be able to cut his mic. And, you know, that may have served him
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actually last time, because people obviously hated his debate performance, ultimately, in the way
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that he decided to conduct himself. But, you know, he only has a few weeks here to turn it around,
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and he needs a big turnaround. This is in 2016. The polls are way more in Biden's favor now than they
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were in Hillary Clinton's favor at that point. So, you know, we all want to go like, oh, but 2016. No,
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this is a different landscape than what we faced last time around. People are already voting.
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He doesn't have many more opportunities to make something happen. This debate was one of the
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last chances that he would have. Well, that was my reaction when I saw him at the last debate,
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you know, being so loud and interrupting and so on. I thought, this is not the behavior of a man
00:54:03.160
who's winning. This is, it's a kind of a tell. It's a tell. But I don't think there's any chance
00:54:09.380
he misses the opportunity to change his numbers. He's also, he's a smart businessman. I mean,
00:54:15.240
I realize he's had some business issues, according to those tax returns, if those are real.
00:54:18.400
Um, but he, I think he understands that getting out in front of people is the way forward for him.
00:54:24.960
Um, and in terms of his, his core supporters, I know like Ben Shapiro is like, no, go back in the
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basement, go back in the basement, just let your policy stand. But I think in Trump's mind, he
00:54:32.400
wants to get back out in front of people. And, uh, I can't see him truly bailing. And then it leaves a
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question of, is there something about the town hall he doesn't want to do? And then he reappears for
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debate number three. Right. Yeah. I, I think that's definitely within the realm of possibility.
00:54:48.020
Sorry. They can't talk now. I think, I think it's definitely within the realm of possibility
00:54:54.780
that we just see him in debate number three, whenever COVID and everything is cleared. And
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I think you're right though, Megan. I mean, I doubt he would pass up an opportunity, but at the same
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time, when he's the president, he can set the terms. He could say, I'm going to do a, you know,
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prime time address on the night of that. Most people would cover it. And I think that, you know,
00:55:12.920
at the end of the day, he's going to have that ability. He did it with some success during the
00:55:17.480
primary campaign in 2016. It kind of reminds me of that a little bit, his ability to manipulate and
00:55:23.220
have the media. I mean, not even manipulate, look, he's the president. Like whenever he speaks,
00:55:27.060
the cameras are on, especially in the middle of a campaign, I think he has a little bit more of the
00:55:31.500
upper hand here. Last question. Where do you put, I'll just, I'll phrase it like this. What do you,
00:55:37.420
where do you put Trump's chances of winning? Crystal, you first. Very, very vanishingly low.
00:55:44.840
I mean, we've been talking to strategists, pollsters, looking at the numbers that are coming out.
00:55:50.720
It is looking extremely bad and not like 2016 whatsoever. His attacks on Joe haven't landed.
00:55:59.600
His attacks on Kamala haven't landed. He hasn't laid out, look in 2016, whether you liked it or
00:56:04.120
not, you knew what the guy stood for and you knew what you were going to get if he was president.
00:56:07.360
I don't know what he would do in a second term. He hasn't made that case whatsoever.
00:56:11.220
And to me, maybe the final nail in the coffin was pulling the plug on the stimulus as millions of
00:56:18.060
Americans are absolutely struggling and devastating. I mean, a suicide hotline was trending on the
00:56:25.040
subreddit on our unemployment of people who have been, who have lost their jobs, lost them permanently
00:56:31.460
and are looking for someone to give a shit about their lives. And he pulled the plug.
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Then he muddied that with another tweet suggesting people might get checks. I mean, it was so many,
00:56:41.720
as with so many things with Trump, I don't understand what exactly the next move is. What,
00:56:47.540
where do you put the chances soccer? Cause I know like five 38, Nate Silver's got it. He's got a 15%
00:56:53.500
chance of winning, but I'll never forget going out there on election night in 2016. And it was
00:56:58.260
the Washington post saying it was something like higher than 90% that he was going to win.
00:57:02.940
Right. Yeah. I'm always, I mean, I'm sorry that she was going to win that she was.
00:57:06.580
I always carried, I've seen Trump, you know, he's wily like a Fox. I won't count him out just as much.
00:57:12.620
I give him probably like one in five, but I think he, if he sealed his fate, there are two moments,
00:57:17.700
February, 2020 downplaying the virus, comparing it to the flu. And a couple of days ago when he
00:57:23.260
killed the stimulus, he can try and crawl out of the hole with the airline thing or trying to
00:57:27.540
reinstate it. But he gave Pelosi the excuse that she needed not to strike a deal. Millions are going
00:57:32.880
to go without checks and without money. And now they've got somebody to blame. And that's a very
00:57:37.680
strong reason to vote, not vote for him. Hmm. Well, less than a month to go guys. Thank you
00:57:42.640
both so much. Thanks Megan. Here's, here's my question for you guys. What do you think? Because
00:57:48.780
Trump he's, he's so unpredictable. Do you think the second presidential debate will go forward?
00:57:54.200
The town hall debate that's supposed to happen in about a week. Um, you can actually at our show
00:58:00.040
for the replies it's at on Twitter at Megan Kelly show, not the Megan Kelly show, just at Megan Kelly
00:58:06.820
show. And I'd love to see some of your answers because, uh, I'm, I'm baffled as to what his next
00:58:11.960
move will be. Okay. I know what our next move is going to be tomorrow. We will be dropping our
00:58:17.620
podcast with Candace Owens in a very revealing, really smart, interesting discussion. She she's
00:58:24.740
brilliant. As you know, she's only 31 years old and what that woman is going to do in her future.
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There's just no stopping her, but tune in. Cause I think you're going to enjoy it. And, um,
00:58:33.760
I'm certainly enjoying being with you guys. Thanks you so much for listening and have a great day.
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Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.
00:58:45.360
The Megan Kelly show is a devil may care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.
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