The Megyn Kelly Show - Petitos Speak Out About New Doc, and ＂Snow White＂ Controversies and Baldwins Red Carpet Drama, with Link Lauren and Christian Toto ｜ Ep. 1031

00:00:00.560 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

00:00:11.980 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. We are going to get to some

00:00:16.280 of the stories in the world of culture that have been dominating social media this week,

00:00:20.440 from what's happening with this Snow White and the actress who apparently can't stand her character, 1.00

00:00:25.800 to these weird tapes of Alec Baldwin and his wife. No clue what's happening there,

00:00:31.660 but we'll dive into it. But we are going to start with a much more serious story and one that's

00:00:36.060 really important. If you've got a daughter in particular, this is important. The story gripped

00:00:42.660 the entire world a few years ago, the disappearance of Gabby Petito. She vanished while on a cross-country

00:00:48.920 van journey with her boyfriend, Brian. As most people now know, Gabby met a devastating end.

00:00:56.520 She was murdered by Brian. This week, Gabby would have turned 26 years old. Her family continues to

00:01:02.920 celebrate her life and memory with their mission to help other victims of domestic abuse. As a new

00:01:09.260 Netflix documentary with which the family cooperated has put a spotlight on the story again. And there's

00:01:17.860 been a lot of follow-up on this critical traffic stop. The police intervening after they received a

00:01:27.240 911 call suggesting a witness had seen Brian hit Gabby. The police pulled over the van as a result of that

00:01:37.060 911 call. And what happened next had the potential, the potential to save Gabby Petito, but it didn't.

00:01:46.080 And one of the things the family wants to speak about is how we can do better, these cops, but any cop

00:01:55.500 and any family members seeing the signs of domestic abuse. Many people have no idea what it looks like,

00:02:03.020 sounds like, what the warning signs are. Here is that 911 call.

00:02:07.380 Hi, I'm calling, I'm right on the corner of Main Street by Moonflower. And we're driving by and I'd like

00:02:16.120 to report a domestic dispute to Florida with the white van, Florida license plate, white land,

00:02:21.360 gentlemen, five, six, beard. They just drove off. They're going down Main Street. They made a, uh,

00:02:28.120 right onto Main Street from Moonflower. What were they doing? But, um, what'd you say? What were they

00:02:34.860 doing? Uh, we drove by and the gentleman was slapping the girl. He was slapping her? Yes. And

00:02:42.260 then we stopped. They ran up and down the sidewalk. He proceeded to hit her, hopped in the car and they

00:02:47.960 drove off. That was days before Gabby Petito would wind up dead. Gabby's father, Joe, and her step-mom,

00:02:56.620 Tara. Join me now along with their attorney, Brian Stewart. One in two adults have high blood

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00:03:49.560 but those high blood pressure numbers. Go to 120Life.com. That's 120Life.com. And remember

00:03:56.600 to use code MK to save 15%. Thank you all so much for being here. I'm really grateful to you for

00:04:03.000 speaking out. I'm sure even four years later, it is not easy. I've watched the Netflix documentary.

00:04:08.780 It's very powerful. Joe, let me start with you on that. As Gabby's dad, why did you think it was a

00:04:15.800 good idea to do the documentary and to cooperate in making this story? We wanted it to be used as a

00:04:21.460 learning tool. So we've learned that Gabby's video from Utah has been used in police training across

00:04:30.680 the country, from what we understand. And we want that to continue. The whole point was to take

00:04:37.060 lessons from what you saw there through the whole thing, from the beginning to the end. And that was

00:04:43.760 important for us. There were a lot of documentaries that were made, but this is the one that we wanted

00:04:48.520 to make ourselves. And we think they did a fantastic job with it. They did. It's gripping.

00:04:55.920 And the way it unfolds is so gripping because you really get to know Gabby. And you can tell that the

00:05:01.820 families participated. People who loved her are participating and helping us see her and understand

00:05:07.140 her in a way we didn't from just the news clips or like the little snippets from her van vlogging,

00:05:13.100 you know, stint provided. So thank you for cooperating because I just feel like it's

00:05:18.320 filled out the Gabby picture so much more robustly. It's amazing to me. Let me just kick it off with

00:05:24.640 this. So, so Joe, you're Gabby's dad, Tara, you were her step-mom and you, but you and your ex,

00:05:31.700 Gabby's mom, her biological mom, Joe, seem like you're good. Like you seem pretty close and,

00:05:37.980 and her husband too, who seems as invested. The four of you seem as like closest exes and new

00:05:44.260 partners can be. Yeah. Tara and Nikki travel a lot together. Jim and I, you know, we'll go travel

00:05:50.900 together. We'll play golf together. Yeah. It's been like that for a long, long time. It wasn't always

00:05:55.700 easy. You know what I mean? There are disagreements that you have, but we always put Gabby first.

00:06:01.360 And if you do that, you can be all right. Yeah, that's right. Well, one of the things you notice

00:06:07.780 in watching the documentary, getting to know your family well, by the way, Brian, welcome to you as

00:06:11.680 well. Sorry to leave you over there on the side. Appreciate you being here. One of the things that

00:06:18.600 you see, at least this is what I gleaned is that Gabby came from a very loving family. And, uh, it

00:06:24.580 explains this effervescence about this young woman. That's the only word that came to mind,

00:06:28.600 just effervescent. You should just hurt, you know, the million dollar smile and her positive 0.97

00:06:33.220 energy and her sweetness, her love of nature and of life. And I can't use any of those words

00:06:40.280 about Brian. And it's not just because I know. Not you, Brian. The different Brian, Brian Laundrie.

00:06:48.340 He seemed like a very dark person right from the start in the, in the Netflix documentary show,

00:06:54.640 some of his art, which also is very dark as opposed to hers. She was a great artist,

00:07:00.400 which is beautiful. Hers is stunningly beautiful. His dark with like disturbing scenes. And I wonder

00:07:07.480 to you, Joe and Tara, whether when you met him, they'd been together a couple of years,

00:07:12.600 you saw any of that prior. Um, so at first we really liked Brian, he came into our home and he

00:07:23.420 was kind and he was just, he was very quiet. He could be a little awkward, but he was, but he was

00:07:28.600 kind. So we didn't see any of that. I think for me, he was soft-spoken too, which is like,

00:07:35.740 he was very, yes. So, but I think for me, I guess right before they went on this trip,

00:07:41.040 I saw a change in Gabby's behavior and I thought it was her. And I think I was just blaming the

00:07:47.440 wrong person. Um, I didn't understand certain things, what the, why things were happening now.

00:07:53.180 Now we lived in New York at the time they lived in Florida. It's a perfect storm of isolation.

00:08:01.140 So I, there was a shift where I was like to something not right here. Uh, and I, and I don't

00:08:06.840 think the other parents agreed with me at that, that point it was only me who felt that way. Um,

00:08:12.400 even my kids still were like, no, we really like Brian. He's such a good guy. Uh, and I was like,

00:08:18.000 no, something, something's not, something's not right to me. Uh, there's something off.

00:08:22.680 Mm-hmm. You know, when you look at it in retrospect,

00:08:25.580 the boyfriend, I didn't like any of her boyfriends. No, I said, I didn't like any of her

00:08:29.600 boyfriends never did because she's my baby. You know what I mean? So I always had that mistrust,

00:08:36.380 but, uh, nothing to the extent of what happened. So when you look at the van life blog that Gabby

00:08:45.220 and Brian were doing, you know, going to cross travel cross country and go to the great national

00:08:48.800 parks and give us all a window into what that would be like, this tiny, tiny little van. Um,

00:08:54.180 it's only in retrospect now that we know what happened that to me, one of the things that

00:08:59.580 jumped out in the Netflix documentary was that whole thing now seems like control and isolation

00:09:06.560 on his part. No wonder he wanted this, Joe right now that you know what, you know,

00:09:12.180 do you have a different view of the whole purpose, at least on his part in doing it?

00:09:17.980 No. And so Gabby's the one that wanted to travel in the van. Like that's something that she

00:09:21.500 wanted to do. You know, um, I think he kind of went along with it for the ride, but, uh, when you

00:09:27.580 look at domestic violence and the processes that, that it goes with, you know, the isolation, you

00:09:32.360 know, from friends and then family and then themselves and, uh, all that stuff. So, uh, I,

00:09:38.400 I think he was into it, you know, because he would have her all to himself. So I didn't think,

00:09:42.960 uh, from a, from an abuser standpoint, there's no downside to that because then you have them all

00:09:47.960 to yourself. So, uh, but this was what Gabby wanted. She really wanted to travel a country.

00:09:52.580 And, uh, I mean, that's just who she was. She really just loved nature and stuff. So, um,

00:09:59.480 and she worked really, really hard on that van. And then we, we, we crushed it because we didn't

00:10:04.720 want it to be out there and people selling it, you know what I mean? Or showing it off because,

00:10:08.840 because it's so painful for us. So we had to make sure we got rid of it.

00:10:11.960 Yeah. Yeah. The van. I'm sorry. What was that? What did you get rid of? We, we crushed the van.

00:10:21.600 Oh, you did. Oh yeah. Who could blame you? Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead, Tara.

00:10:27.000 Gabby loved adventure. So yes, this was something that she wanted to do. She loved to take pictures.

00:10:32.780 She loved to, um, take videos. So that was all her. She wanted to be a video blogger,

00:10:38.040 uh, and show the country. She wanted to show her going on these adventures and how amazing,

00:10:43.920 uh, the U S is and all these national parks. And I think she did that. The pictures that she took

00:10:50.700 were absolutely beautiful. The videos that she took, I mean, they were amazing. And that was her,

00:10:56.140 that was all her, that was her talent. Yeah. Well, you can see that and you do get to see

00:11:01.220 some great sites of beauty in those videos, then pictures that, that are in the piece.

00:11:05.060 It just occurred to me that that's an abuser's perfect solution. You know, it, I'm, I believe

00:11:12.100 you that Gabby wanted to do it, not knowing that she was engaged to a domestic violence, uh,

00:11:17.580 perpetrator, but I'm sure given what I heard from one of Gabby's best friends in the Netflix

00:11:22.180 documentary, forgive me. I don't remember her name. She's got the tats. She's blonde. Rose,

00:11:27.940 Rose. We love Rose. Okay. Rose. She talked in the Netflix piece about how she felt

00:11:34.020 he was starting to isolate Gabby. Like when she and Gabby were spending too much time together,

00:11:40.500 Gabby was leaning too much on her friend or even potentially her parents. He started to get upset

00:11:46.680 and started to want to isolate her, which is just exactly on brand for an abuser. So you can see how

00:11:52.780 Gabby's innocence about traveling the country and, you know, hitting the road together would have

00:12:00.200 been right up his alley. Like he, he gets her away from you guys. It gets her away from her mom

00:12:05.020 and Jim. He gets her away from Rose and her other friends. And it, it's this perfect storm formula for,

00:12:13.160 you know, the storm that was coming. What do you guys make of that?

00:12:16.960 You're not wrong. You know, that's, that's how it works. You know, you, you alienate the friends

00:12:20.940 first, then you alienate the family. You tell them that they're, they don't need their job and the

00:12:25.760 people they work for are horrible, you know, so now they're not working and they don't need a car.

00:12:29.460 So they're now down there financially and dependent on, on, on the abuser. And it really is a, it's a

00:12:36.000 slow process when you look at it from a high level view over the course of a few years, you can kind

00:12:41.140 of piece that together. But on the day to day, it's, it's, it's kind of difficult, you know, and

00:12:45.900 that's, that's the stuff that we're doing with the foundation now, you know, kind of bring that stuff

00:12:50.040 to, to the forefront where you can see that, where we can talk about it, spot the signs, kind of

00:12:54.500 pay attention to some of the things that people are saying, um, just, just their reactions,

00:13:00.400 you know, and, uh, and speak up and learn how to talk to your friends about it.

00:13:05.620 And we're going to get into the specifics about the signs to look for and all that.

00:13:09.560 Let me just tee it up and I'll go to you, Tara. One second. Uh, here is Rose from the Netflix 1.00

00:13:14.660 documentary. And this, one of the interesting things they did in the documentary was to not have

00:13:20.480 an actress voice over Gabby's journal entries, but to use AI to recreate her voice, which is really,

00:13:30.340 that must be somewhat chilling and maybe weirdly comforting for you guys in a way to hear. I'll ask

00:13:36.480 you about it, but let me just play this soundbite where it's a Gabby voice AI recreation of one of her

00:13:43.140 journal entries. And the clip features her friend Rose.

00:13:46.140 Gabby was constantly over at my house and kind of getting more frustrated. And the more her and I

00:14:09.820 were together and talking and having a good time, she actually felt more independent.

00:14:16.480 And that's when he was like, okay, I got to do something to change this.

00:14:20.440 Let me isolate her. If I get her away from her job, I get her away from her friend. She only has me. 0.92

00:14:29.760 And then next thing you know, they were gone.

00:14:34.180 Tara, that is really chilling.

00:14:35.680 It's hard to hear. We have so many videos of her voice, so it's slightly off. So it was kind of weird

00:14:45.980 to hear it for the first time. Again, we have so many videos. It's always hard to watch her, but I love

00:14:54.080 seeing her. So I'm glad we have those memories. I'm glad we have all those videos of her. Again, it was

00:15:00.080 just weird to hear her voice in AI because it's, again, it's, it's slightly off, but it does sound

00:15:05.840 a lot like her. So when you see the, the increase and you know, you hear that messaging, please stop

00:15:13.100 crying. And the documentary shows a lot of those, like there were numerous messages by Gabby or by

00:15:20.560 him, Brian, acknowledging his tears and how upset he was and how dark he was and Gabby blaming herself.

00:15:29.680 And even when she writes about how he loved her, there are statements like, I don't deserve his

00:15:35.180 love. You know, like he's this sort of vaunted guy who she's so lucky to have. Meanwhile, I feel like,

00:15:42.560 I mean, you guys probably know a much, much more about it at this point, but I, to me, the whole

00:15:46.620 thing feels like an emotional manipulation by him of her.

00:15:51.460 Well, abuse is a process. It's not just one event. And it normally starts with them charming you love

00:16:00.560 bombing you. And then it's slightly turns and they'll only show that behavior and every relationship

00:16:09.260 is different, but they'll start showing those behaviors. After the relationship has been going

00:16:15.480 on for quite a while. And that's when you start seeing, because you always believe that they're

00:16:21.060 going to go back to that love bombing. And you always believe that they are, you try to see the

00:16:25.280 good in them. So that's part of the manipulation. And Brian definitely was doing that to Gabby.

00:16:31.600 And it doesn't always start physical either. It could start again with the manipulation,

00:16:36.160 the financial, and it's, it is, it can be a slow process. It can be a faster process,

00:16:39.660 but once they have you, that's when I feel like it will shift.

00:16:44.540 Their, their true colors come out. There was another interesting piece in the Netflix doc about

00:16:49.120 his mother, Roberta, who I must say comes across as a villain in this thing. Um, but before we get to

00:16:57.940 that, can we talk about what happened, Joe, when she, when Gabby went down to Florida, you, you guys,

00:17:04.280 as I understand she was raised in Long Island, but then she moved down to Florida to be with Brian

00:17:07.420 and she was with him and his parents and the mother started off fine toward Gabby,

00:17:15.160 but this is before the van trip. She took a turn and there's speculation on why she took a turn in

00:17:21.200 the piece, Joe. Yeah. Um, so I guess I have to start it off with, in my opinion, but other than that,

00:17:30.460 you know, it's, was, uh, almost like a, again, you know, speculation, but a, uh, a jealousy that

00:17:39.020 was, that was going on where Brian, it was giving all his attention to Gabby and not to his mom. And,

00:17:45.780 um, and that, and then you could see on how things changed and how she was very, um, critical of Gabby and,

00:17:54.380 uh, and, and getting on her for things that her own son would do. So, um, and then you had that

00:18:00.520 letter that she wrote, which was just, I mean, the burn after reading letter. The mother did write

00:18:06.240 a letter, right? That was a little rough there to, uh, I don't know how a parent writes that to a

00:18:12.720 child and thinks it's funny, but apparently they did. So to me, it's, it's interesting just because

00:18:19.540 now you have a window into this being a very unwell young man. And so the parents are obviously

00:18:24.960 a source of interest too. And the mother's jealousy over a girlfriend is odd and strange.

00:18:29.820 And you see Gabby texts in this piece too. Once again, Roberta's seems mad at her and Brian

00:18:36.540 acknowledging she, she gets very dark. This happened throughout my childhood, you know, just be

00:18:41.860 patient. It passes. So it's still a mystery there, but we're gleaning more from this piece than we had

00:18:48.040 prior about these parents who were totally uncooperative in the search for Gabby and appear

00:18:54.280 based on what I saw in the film to have known right from the get-go that he killed her. I mean,

00:19:00.380 that seems pretty clear that they got on the phone. I mean, I'll bring you in on this, Brian,

00:19:05.800 as the attorney. Um, it appears from the phone logs that the parents called, um, their lawyer that

00:19:13.020 they lawyered up immediately after getting a call from Brian in the grand Tetons within what looks

00:19:21.000 like hours of Gabby dying. Yeah. All indications are that they were aware of what was going on and,

00:19:28.440 and immediately took steps to protect Brian rather than look after Gabby or, or her parents' interests.

00:19:35.140 And it was really unfortunate. Right. So, because it looks like you, you guys reveal

00:19:40.840 that he, we believe it was the next day after we believe the murder happened. I think that we

00:19:47.240 believe the murder was eight 27 of 21 and that on eight 28, he called his parents had an hour long

00:19:56.280 conversation with his mother. And then the next call the parents made was to a lawyer.

00:20:00.420 And then we know shortly thereafter, Brian returned home to Florida without Gabby, which no one knew.

00:20:08.360 And you guys, meanwhile, Joe and Tara are frantic. It's eventually you get frantic at the beginning.

00:20:14.260 You're like, I haven't heard from Gabby. Where's Gabby? She's kind of, you know, she's whatever. 0.79

00:20:17.160 She's in the desert. And then it switches over to no, this is not normal. And that's when you,

00:20:23.360 you brought in the national media. And ultimately you kept going to Brian's parents saying, have,

00:20:29.020 have you guys heard from them? And they were completely uncoroperative. And we now know

00:20:33.940 we're housing Brian. We believe also knew what he had done, or at least that Gabby was no longer

00:20:40.440 with us and we're trying to cover it up or hide it or do something, um, other than the right thing.

00:20:47.980 So can you just take us back to that time, Joe? And it was you, was it not who brought in the

00:20:52.180 national media to try to get attention? I want to clarify something. So they hired an attorney

00:20:58.900 in Long Island. They sent him the check. And then that attorney actually got the attorney out in

00:21:05.600 Wyoming. He's the, their attorney in Long Island was looking for an attorney. So, and he, their attorney

00:21:11.360 in Long Island is actually the one that signed the retainer in the one for Wyoming.

00:21:16.420 Why, why is that important? Um, because I felt like they were hiding.

00:21:22.980 So I guess it shows that they knew, again, my opinion, it shows that they knew the, uh,

00:21:30.980 where things happen. Remember when Gabby first went missing and we were frantic and bring in the

00:21:35.540 national media, um, we had from Wyoming all the way down to Florida, you know, so you're talking

00:21:42.360 into a 2,500 miles, you know, at that point where they had hired an attorney in Wyoming,

00:21:47.780 you know, to represent Brian in case I got it went sideways. So how did they know to hire an

00:21:54.600 attorney in Wyoming? Yep. If Gabby just ran off and she was gone, cause that's what they said in the 0.67

00:22:00.420 deposition that Gabby just ran off. She was gone. Um, but he needed an attorney. So if they were breaking

00:22:05.580 up, why would they need an attorney specifically in Wyoming? Right. Because what, what you guys

00:22:12.160 knew in the beginning was that, that he's home. Suddenly you find out he's home and the van is

00:22:18.920 here, but Gabby is not here. And so is it the case that they never spoke to you? Like you,

00:22:26.640 obviously you were calling and Nikki Gabby's mom was calling and her husband, Jim was calling. So did

00:22:32.120 they ever speak to you? No. Uh, so I've never spoken to them. Uh, matter of fact, the first time

00:22:39.480 I heard them say anything was at the deposition. So, um, in the civil case you brought against them.

00:22:47.360 Yes. Uh, for the, for the civil case, cause we wanted answers. That was, that was the reason why

00:22:51.860 that was done. Uh, and once we got the answers, you know, we weren't going to get anything else from

00:22:57.400 them at that point. So it really, uh, was, is what it is. But, you know, when we, we first went to the

00:23:04.440 national media, her story wasn't picked up as, as fast as people really think it was, uh, once the

00:23:11.700 Moab video went out, I think that's when her story really blew up because, you know, I, I guess in

00:23:19.640 previous interviews, I had said that it was like, maybe she's, you know, she's pretty or it's her color

00:23:23.720 or it's the story, you know, that's why her story went out that way, you know, as far as it did.

00:23:27.820 But after watching the Netflix documentary and seeing the reaction afterwards,

00:23:32.300 you know, I realized now that it wasn't just her color or the way she looked. It was just that

00:23:36.760 so many other people see themselves in that position and, you know, really just empathize

00:23:44.400 with Gabby because they've been there before and not just here in the States, all over the country.

00:23:49.480 I mean, all over the, all over the planet. So it's just such a prevalent problem. And

00:23:54.580 the fact that people now are doing these videos on how they survived and how they got out and all

00:24:00.480 that stuff, I'd love for that to continue to inspire others to do it. If someone feels safe

00:24:06.200 and comfortable enough to where they can share their story, uh, and inspire others to do it.

00:24:11.240 Uh, I, I just, I, I think that's going to help get rid of the shame from the victim and really

00:24:17.020 put it where it belongs on the abusive. That's so right. That's, that's exactly it. I cannot

00:24:23.300 imagine your frustration while you're trying to find your child and the parents of the young man

00:24:28.500 she was traveling with just won't respond to you. They just won't, they won't say anything,

00:24:34.240 which is why eventually you called the police. You know, what's really good though. I'll tell you,

00:24:39.200 this is all the support that we got. All right. So anything that we wanted to say publicly,

00:24:45.500 but our attorney told us we weren't allowed to, sorry, Brian, I love you, uh, was, um,

00:24:51.200 everyone else said it for us. Like we didn't have to defend ourselves or come out and say something,

00:24:57.200 you know, that's not accurate because people did it for us. And the support that we got

00:25:02.520 was, I mean, unfathomable. So again, that's why we have the foundation now to, to, to help out as

00:25:09.700 many people as we can, because everyone helped us. So we're trying to repay that. It was

00:25:15.020 eventually, you know, you, you did call the police and got attention via the media. And the police

00:25:22.260 went to Brian Laundrie's parents' home where he'd been staying with them in Florida. And the video

00:25:29.640 of some of what happened appears in the Netflix flick. Let's watch a little bit and saw it six.

00:25:35.300 Stanley, you saw Brian and, and Gabriel. Well, Brian is here. Brian is here. Yeah. And that's what you're

00:25:47.180 saying. Yeah. And just to let the detective know, is Gabriel here? No. She's not here. Is this her

00:25:52.980 vehicle? Her van? It's both of them. I know you've already said you don't want to speak. Well, if you guys

00:26:00.300 know anything, it would let the parents at ease and go from there. Okay. I mean, anything that

00:26:10.080 you guys would be able to give them is any type of help. Last time your son saw her, anything like

00:26:16.840 that. Am I able to talk to your son? The other officer said, I mean, as a parent, you wouldn't

00:26:24.580 want to know where it happened with your son? I mean, it makes it very odd. Don't you think

00:26:33.500 from my point of view? I mean, when did you see that video for the first time? You two

00:26:45.720 last year, last year, maybe I don't really recall, but we did not see that video right away.

00:26:55.460 Okay. So it was after you knew what had happened with Gabby, but you must've been told by the

00:26:59.080 police, the parents won't get, it's not that just that we couldn't reach them. It's not that they

00:27:04.420 said they don't know. It's that they're refusing to talk to us. And your reaction when you heard that

00:27:09.320 was what? So the night of September 11th, when we finally got Gabby reported missing,

00:27:17.500 we got a call from Nikki. She had, she's the one who got her reported missing up in New York

00:27:23.560 because we were having a difficult time getting her reported missing. We were calling Northport

00:27:29.200 police. We were calling Utah because that was our last known location where Gabby was.

00:27:36.440 So we were having a difficult time, but when Nikki finally was able to report her missing,

00:27:40.440 she had called us immediately after and told us that Gabby is not there. Brian is home and they

00:27:49.240 lawyered up. And that's all we knew at that point in time. Um, that was the most

00:27:54.260 chilling feeling. It was a nightmare that we were like, wait, what do you mean? Cause at first we

00:28:05.720 really thought that they were still together and maybe they would just were off the grid for a

00:28:12.020 little while and we just couldn't get in touch. I mean, we were looking for both of them. We wanted

00:28:15.760 to know where both of them were. So getting that phone call was the second worst phone call I've ever

00:28:22.840 received in my life. Yeah. That had to be the beginning of realizing what had happened. I totally

00:28:29.020 understand. Oh, it's awful. It's awful. Um, just to jump to the, the, the worst part was when you

00:28:38.420 found out of course, that he had killed her, that she was dead and her remains were found. And then

00:28:44.660 there was a period thereafter where we realized Brian had escaped for lack of a better term from

00:28:50.700 his parents' house, notwithstanding the media and the cops having all eyes on him. And he eventually

00:28:55.320 took his own life, uh, in a park, not far from his home and his bodies, his remains were found about

00:29:04.860 a month after he shot himself in the head, according to the coroner with a bizarre suicide note. I don't

00:29:11.020 want to spend a lot of time out of it, but, but he tried to blame Gabby basically based, tried to say

00:29:15.680 she hurt herself and it was a mercy kill. And just for the record, that's utter nonsense. Correct.

00:29:21.560 It's, it's, it does not dovetail at all with what the coroner said happened to Gabby.

00:29:27.860 No, no, not at all. Um, that's just it. Yeah. No. Yeah. We like to try to focus. I try to erase

00:29:34.900 them out of my memory. I don't want to think about Brian. I don't want to think about the parents. I

00:29:39.900 just want to think about Gabby. I want to move forward and try to do good in the world. I want to use

00:29:46.900 her legacy and try to help as many other people as possible. Again, that's why we did the

00:29:51.100 documentary to shed light on, um, and awareness on domestic violence and also missing people.

00:29:58.600 That's really our main, main goal. Can I just say one thing? So you were able to chuckle there,

00:30:04.840 uh, Joe, when we were showing the note, it's pretty extraordinary as I've been watching you. I don't know

00:30:11.220 you watching you. You seem like a very affable man and that's how your daughter was too. Is it,

00:30:18.060 is how are you, how are you even able to, to laugh? Like, and given everything you've been through,

00:30:25.560 is it just your natural countenance? Is it something you were born with that you passed

00:30:29.580 along to your beautiful daughter? Like talk about how you handle that emotionally.

00:30:35.160 It's a few things. Listen, I got a great support system, you know, and not just retired, my boys,

00:30:40.960 uh, Nikki, Jim. So when there's hard times, like yesterday was Gabby's birthday, you know, yesterday

00:30:45.920 we just sat around and moped around the house all day and did a puzzle. Like that's like, I, I, I,

00:30:51.520 I will never work on her birthday ever again, you know, but, um, not that letter that you showed,

00:30:58.040 like, it's such fiction. Like you can't help, but laugh at it because it's so ridiculous,

00:31:02.280 you know, um, we know it's not true, you know, and the fact that he even thought that that was okay

00:31:09.980 to write, it just shows where his mental state was. You know, we try to really take as much,

00:31:16.420 see, I'm all for, you know, learning lessons. You know what I mean? That's something I've always done

00:31:21.020 since, you know, I was a kid, you know, take the learning lesson from whatever you can.

00:31:24.840 And so what we've learned from this, we're trying to help others, you know, um, take the pictures,

00:31:30.740 take the, take the videos because you never know when you're going to need them, you know? Um,

00:31:35.900 and that's what helped with Gabby's story when it came to, to, to her missing. You know, I, I talk

00:31:40.940 about it a lot, how we were on hold, um, trying to get her story to do an interview while she was

00:31:48.960 missing. And they, one of the producers asked me, Hey, listen, uh, do you mind if we use her pictures

00:31:54.140 and videos from online? I mean, we said, absolutely. I guess he meant to put me on hold

00:31:58.600 or mute me, uh, or mute himself. And he told him to his boss, he's like, yeah, we got permission.

00:32:04.380 This is going to be a sellable story, you know? And, you know, I, and I'm not, I'm not faulting

00:32:10.640 this. And I understand sometimes you get desensitized with certain things being in the

00:32:14.380 line of work that, that these people are in. You have to. Yeah. And, and, and, and my heart breaks

00:32:19.080 for them because it really, you know, they hear the worst stories you can, you can ever imagine.

00:32:22.760 Right. So, but when people go missing those videos, the movements, the sounds helps. So

00:32:29.180 take them, you know, take that as a learning lesson, you know, um, stuff that we learned

00:32:33.620 from DV, go to the Gabby Petito foundation.org, you know, and look at, you know, the resources

00:32:38.420 that you have, because I'll tell you this more than anything else. You know, I know you asked

00:32:42.400 me how I feel, how the reason why I'm able to do that is because of the work that we do.

00:32:46.800 You know, um, most people don't even know where to begin to find resources. You know,

00:32:53.480 we say it all the time.

00:32:54.400 You have, you have pain with the purpose. Now you have pain with the purpose.

00:32:57.200 Yeah. You know, like there's the phrase, stop, drop, and roll. Now I don't know about

00:33:01.220 you other than being, you know, other than the firemen that I might be watching this, you

00:33:04.880 know, how many times have you almost been on fire? You know what I mean? I can tell you

00:33:08.220 it's not very hot where, how many times have someone been in a domestic violence incident?

00:33:13.080 One out of three women, you know what I mean? One out of five men, 10 to 20 million children

00:33:17.620 a year, you know, that number is so much higher. Why are we not talking about this? This is

00:33:23.440 a life-saving education by learning about it and talking about it and making people aware

00:33:28.960 it's not a dirty secret, you know, stuff like that. Take the lessons and show them to everybody

00:33:35.000 and hopefully you won't have another Gabby story. So that's how I laugh and stuff.

00:33:40.640 I mean, I've interviewed a lot of domestic violence survivors, a lot, and most of them

00:33:46.600 older than Gabby. And the patterns are so familiar, right? The woman making excuses for

00:33:53.240 the man, the woman wanting and needing to believe the promises that it will never happen again.

00:34:00.180 The woman returning to the man and then defending and making excuses for the man. And of course, 0.79

00:34:04.980 all of his controlling behavior over her, you know, and it, and it does tend to be escalatory.

00:34:09.100 You're right. The love bombing starts at all. Almost every woman I know says I would leave

00:34:14.960 after the first hit. The first time he hit me or punched me, I'd be out the door. And it's just

00:34:19.580 far more complicated than that. Strong women, smart women, successful women stay. They do stay. 1.00

00:34:27.380 There are all sorts of psychological and emotional reasons why they stay. So everyone listening to this

00:34:32.480 knows it needs to know it could happen to you. It could happen to your daughter and you, it's the

00:34:39.300 outside circle. Hopefully that can help the person who's being hurt, extract themselves from it. But

00:34:46.820 you can't, if you don't know the signs. And that brings me to what happened in Moab with the 9-1-1 call,

00:34:52.500 by the way, I've been meaning to ask you, have you guys ever met the guy who called 9-1-1 after they,

00:34:58.540 they saw Brian hit Gabby? I haven't. I wonder, I wonder if like he would, I bet he'd love to meet

00:35:06.780 you. I mean, he tried, you know, like that's just a good Samaritan who tried, he saw what was

00:35:12.280 happening and he did what most people like might not do, like get involved, you know, call the cops

00:35:18.360 on somebody. Actually, I believe most people probably would have, but, but many people would not

00:35:22.900 have in any event. So we played that soundbite. He called, uh, the 9-1-1 and then the police showed

00:35:28.360 up and the police are very affable. They seem to be wanting to do the right thing, but they do not

00:35:35.900 do the right thing. And they let the whole story get manipulated on site by Brian and frankly, Gabby.

00:35:42.780 But that's, if you know anything about DV, you know that she's going to do that, you know, and you 0.95

00:35:47.000 have an eyewitness, an independent eyewitness saying he hit her, he hit her. When they show up on the

00:35:52.660 scene, she's got bruises and cuts on her face, bruises on her arm, which they do point out. 0.99

00:35:57.860 And he's got some sort of marks on his face too. There, there's the terrible picture. And here's

00:36:04.080 just a bit of how the exchange went when the cops via body cam start talking to Gabby, um,

00:36:12.480 about what happened at SOT 8.

00:36:15.420 Do you want to tell me what's going on?

00:36:16.600 Yeah, I don't know. It's just, some days, I, I feel like that OCD and I just, I was just

00:36:25.880 cleaning and fading up back to the man before and I was apologizing to him and saying, I'm

00:36:31.060 sorry that I'm so mean because sometimes I have OCD and sometimes I just get really frustrated.

00:36:35.880 I'm not like, I mean towards him, I just like, I mean, I guess my vibe is like, I, I hear

00:36:43.760 me like in a bad mood and I'm trying to start a blog.

00:36:48.520 Okay.

00:36:49.140 So I've been building my website, so I've been really stressed and he doesn't really believe

00:36:54.280 that I could do any of it. So that's kind of like a, I don't know, he's like, I don't

00:36:59.880 know, we just been fighting one morning and we don't want to be in the car before.

00:37:03.240 Why wouldn't he let you in the car? Because you, because of your OCD?

00:37:06.520 To me, I need to calm down. He really stresses me out and I just, this is a rough morning.

00:37:15.400 Hmm. What's that like for you guys now to see her blaming herself almost entirely?

00:37:19.700 I just want to reach out to her and hug her and be there for her and help her. So it's

00:37:30.200 really, it's really difficult to watch, but then it makes us want to fight harder. I mean,

00:37:37.660 we're all about backing the blue and, and getting the resources to police officers, making sure

00:37:45.060 that they know what domestic violence looks like. There are amazing.

00:37:50.080 What do you wish those cops knew Tara? What do you, what do you wish those cops on site

00:37:53.460 with Gabby that day knew?

00:37:55.240 I wish they had the right training and tools to know about strangulation.

00:37:59.420 If they knew about strangulation, I think they could have helped Gabby.

00:38:02.860 If they knew about the red flags, um, I believe that they would have been able to, to, to help her

00:38:11.440 and connect her to the resources necessary for her to get out of the relationship safely.

00:38:17.460 Like what? Anything in particular?

00:38:20.040 There's a few things.

00:38:20.980 There's a few things.

00:38:22.100 I don't know what we can really get into.

00:38:23.860 Yeah. I mean, well, so when she puts her hand here, that's an indicator that she was,

00:38:31.200 that she's been strangled before for the losing audience. You're, she, you're putting your hand

00:38:35.420 in front of like your, your chin. Go keep going.

00:38:37.640 Yeah. She covered him out.

00:38:39.060 She covers here. So even if they cover here, here, or here, it's an indicator that they've

00:38:45.480 strangled before. Um, Oh, wow.

00:38:48.300 The markings on him could be an indicator that she was trying to get his arms off of her.

00:38:55.360 A lot of times with strangulation, the, uh, the defensive wounds are on the

00:39:01.060 perpetrator, not the victim, because they're trying to, they're trying to claw out. There's

00:39:06.100 actually a video here in Florida that a police officer, um, because there's the sunshine laws

00:39:11.660 that all of, um, their body cam is, you can see it. Um, so there's a video where a victim

00:39:20.840 bit the perpetrator's arm right here. And the cops were not aware of the fact that that could

00:39:27.620 be an indicator of strangulation as well, even though the woman kept saying that she choked 0.80

00:39:31.220 him out. So the defensive wounds can wind up on, on the, the perpetrator and not the victim.

00:39:38.220 Right. The fact, the fact that he had marks on him does not mean she was the aggressor.

00:39:43.280 Keep going.

00:39:44.340 Exactly. Exactly. Um, so that, that's one thing. Um,

00:39:48.820 Sorry, I'm just drawing a, no, that's okay.

00:39:53.960 This is very difficult. There are other things too, you know, you can't lock someone out of their

00:39:59.660 home. Right. And they were on a road trip. That vehicle was their home and that car was registered

00:40:04.660 to Gab. Right. So taking the keys away from her and locking her out of her vehicle, it's not something

00:40:10.580 that someone should be able to do. You know, um, there were, I think two 911 calls to be honest,

00:40:16.920 uh, Gabby being hit. So, uh, when you do all those things, and then there was also a lethality

00:40:24.740 assessment should have been done in Utah. And you can correct me if I'm wrong on that, Brian,

00:40:28.120 since, since like 2018, uh, which now actually the law patent now, now they actually have it as a

00:40:33.560 mandate since, uh, 2023. Um, and that was because there was another woman who went, uh, who was, uh,

00:40:41.260 killed, uh, named Mandy main and a domestic violence incident, you know, but she happened to be the 0.93

00:40:46.080 lieutenant governor's, uh, niece. Uh, and when someone who has that type of power, you know what 0.96

00:40:53.060 I mean? Uh, can get things done quicker. And that's how we were introduced to the lethality

00:40:56.980 assessment. Cause once we learned about that, uh, we actually brought that law here to the state of

00:41:01.100 Florida. Um, that was signed last year. And, you know, we worked on a committee with the police

00:41:07.300 chiefs, uh, the sheriff's association, DCFS, uh, and other, uh, DV organizations to help bring it here.

00:41:14.040 Uh, and they rolled it out here too. And we're working in other states to do the same

00:41:17.740 because it is, it is a tool that can help a lot. Do you want to speak to that? The lethality

00:41:24.720 assessment that, that more cops are now starting to do. Yeah. So the lethality assessment is a series,

00:41:31.160 I can't speak. The lethality assessment is a series of 11 questions, um, that, uh, a first

00:41:38.280 responder or a police officer will ask to figure out if a person's in a, in a lethal situation or not,

00:41:43.080 but just asking the 11 questions, isn't the, isn't as important as the, uh, the, the, uh,

00:41:52.040 the county or the department to be tied in with an organization for domestic violence,

00:41:56.300 be a shelter and stuff like that. So, so they can get the training. These guys said they had

00:41:59.720 training. I mean, that's the thing. And like the way they're talking about it is like guys who have

00:42:03.520 had training, but you know, you have to wonder if it was the right training. Can you give us a couple

00:42:07.580 of the lethality questions, Joe? Well, yeah, they'll ask you, have you been strangled before?

00:42:12.540 Or is this person, you know, have they, uh, are there kids in the home? Maybe kids and that not,

00:42:16.860 that not are theirs. Um, they'll ask you a bunch of questions and you can see it too, that that's all

00:42:22.440 broken out, but it's in the way that they ask him. And the really important part is letting the victim

00:42:29.660 read their answers back. Cause it's almost like that disassociation. When you read a book and stuff like

00:42:34.460 that, sometimes you feel like you're in that book or you're in that character. When they read their

00:42:38.460 answers back in their head, they're like, I can't believe I answered that way. Like they know

00:42:42.640 whether or not that's the truth. So it's, it's things like that can really make that difference.

00:42:48.520 And, uh, I said now Utah has that law. Florida has that law. New York has got a bill. Um, right now

00:42:54.800 we're working with Wyoming to do it, Georgia to do it, um, as well as other countries to do it too.

00:42:59.860 So we've been asked to help out with Australia and Ireland and United Kingdom. So. Well, that's

00:43:05.120 incredible. All right. Let me, let me keep it going because I do want to spend a little bit more time

00:43:09.380 on this traffic stop. Um, then they talked to Brian and Brian, he's not crying. He's actually kind of

00:43:18.820 laughing at a couple of points on this. Um, and he's completely dissembling. I mean, if you know

00:43:23.820 anything about how to detect deception, it's, it's jumping off the screen at you. He's not

00:43:30.420 answering the direct questions. He's wiggling. He's his body language, all of it, which was not

00:43:36.060 detected, but here's Sot9. What's going on? We see this gets worked up sometimes and I try and

00:43:43.640 really distance myself from her. So like I lost the car and I left the way from her. What happened

00:43:47.760 this morning is that she's trying to start up like her own little website blog and everything.

00:43:51.800 So I gave her time and we really had a nice morning and if anything, but, um, so I could

00:43:56.600 walk away. I said, let's just take a breather and let's not, you know, go anywhere. Let's

00:44:00.500 just calm down for a minute. And then she had her phone and was trying to get the key service 0.99

00:44:05.400 that way. I was just trying to, I know I was going to push her, but I was just trying to

00:44:08.580 push her way to go. Let's just take a minute, step back and breathe. And we see if she got 0.99

00:44:13.500 with her phone. So you push her and she hit you? She was, I wasn't, I wasn't, it wasn't

00:44:18.840 like a push when she jumped on me. She was, she was already, she was already, I don't know,

00:44:23.640 she's already swinging and I was just smiling. I hope she doesn't have too many complaints

00:44:31.340 about me. I hope she doesn't have too many complaints about me. Watching that now does

00:44:38.320 what? I don't, I know you don't want to spend a lot of time on him, which is I'm, I'm fine

00:44:41.140 with, but that's gotta, it's gotta be very striking. And this is, this is why the lethality

00:44:47.300 assessment is so important because stranglers are the most dangerous people to walk this 1.00

00:44:53.620 earth. If they have a man ever, or puts their hand around your neck, the chances of them

00:45:00.280 killing you increases to 750%. And so these questions are not just about the safety of the

00:45:09.280 victim. It's also about the safety of the officers, because again, they are the most dangerous.

00:45:14.180 It's the most lethal form of domestic abuse. 1.00

00:45:19.740 I'm sorry, domestic violence calls are the most dangerous to officers too. So having the

00:45:24.300 right training tutelage when it comes to how to, how to handle that situation is all, like

00:45:30.220 you said, you can look at the Florida bill, the Utah bill and how to handle it. It's a great

00:45:35.300 program. Uh, you know, again, but having the resources is important and knowing where to go

00:45:41.280 when you're in that situation. You know, if you could put the phone number up 1-800-799-SAFE,

00:45:47.120 you know what I mean? That's the number to the national domestic violence hotline.

00:45:49.860 That's a great place to start. You know, that's the number that we give out, you know,

00:45:53.020 all over the country here. Um, because it is 1-800-799-SAFE just for people listening at home.

00:45:59.600 1-800-799-SAFE. I do want to get to this next thing. So the cops in this exchange do start talking

00:46:09.980 about how partners wind up murdered. I mean, it's really incredible, but they decide that

00:46:17.200 Brian is the one who was the victim, that Gabby was the primary aggressor. He laughs. I'm going to

00:46:24.340 play SOT 10 and SOT 11 back-to-back. Let's watch.

00:46:27.140 We're living together. So you meet the statute for domestic partners and you do have injury

00:46:35.120 and both an independent witness, probably the next one we're going to talk to as well,

00:46:39.520 which we haven't talked to yet, but one of the ones you did talk to, and your old companion

00:46:44.260 have made it clear that she is the primary aggressor and that she was striking you and

00:46:50.440 you just received injuries. You have been striking her. She has not been striking her.

00:46:55.320 The witness did not see you strike her. So at this point, you're the victim of a domestic

00:46:59.420 assault. Even if you didn't want to pursue this, you don't have a choice.

00:47:04.900 How far do you want to go with this? You know why the domestic assault code is there. It's

00:47:09.020 there to protect people. The reason why they don't give a discretion on these things is

00:47:13.540 because too many times women who are at risk want to go back to their abuser. They just

00:47:17.940 wanted him to stop and they don't want to have to be separated. They don't want him charged.

00:47:20.920 They don't want him to go to jail. And then they end up getting worse and worse treatment

00:47:24.480 and then they end up getting killed. In no way, shape or form that I can perceive

00:47:30.180 does what happened here, a little slap fight between

00:47:34.320 fiancés who love each other, want to be together.

00:47:38.740 Can I perceive that this is going to digress into the situation where he's going to be a

00:47:42.580 battered man? Right.

00:47:44.700 But then again, I don't have a crystal ball.

00:47:46.060 Brian Stewart, you're the attorney.

00:47:50.200 As you hear that, it's what's it's incredible what we see there because you see the cop is

00:47:55.040 right on. He's exact. He's got it exactly right.

00:47:59.000 Women will defend and then they'll wind up murdered. 1.00

00:48:02.100 But at the end, he completely turns it to he's the victim and he dismisses the whole thing as a

00:48:09.460 quote, a little slap fight. And I think the reason he did that is because he thinks Gabby's the only

00:48:15.100 one who really slapped anyone, notwithstanding her bruised and battered face. What do you make of that?

00:48:22.120 Well, that's really why this case is so instructive is because it's so well documented.

00:48:27.540 You can see the injury. You can hear the witness call. You can see how the how the parties are reacting

00:48:35.660 to each other. And you actually get to see the officers thought process. So they admit that they

00:48:42.260 know that there was an assault, that there is visible injury on both parties and that they

00:48:48.080 had witnesses saying that they had hit her. And and so they're aware of that and they choose not to do

00:48:55.780 further investigation and they choose not to follow Utah law, which required them to effect an arrest

00:49:02.260 and to separate them. And so and so while they they know that the reason for the law is to protect

00:49:08.780 domestic violence victims from the eventual murder or or worse violence that can come from

00:49:16.580 from not intervening in these situations, they didn't appreciate the risk. They did like he this

00:49:24.740 officer Pratt said, yeah, that's the law. And yeah, that's what it's intended to prevent. But I don't

00:49:31.020 think that will happen here because of my experience and my biases. And so that is that's really why the

00:49:37.600 lethality assessment protocol that they should have done would have been so so important because

00:49:43.820 understanding the law and the situation, they could have asked these questions and appreciated

00:49:49.800 and helped Gabby appreciate the danger that she was in. Can I just ask you so my own take on it is

00:49:56.160 the the cop was saying that I don't think that there's this is going to turn lethal because he

00:50:02.620 was thinking about Gabby as the abuser. And I it seemed to me he was like, she's the one to blame.

00:50:09.280 I don't think she's going to kill him. And which just is just further evidence to me of how this thing

00:50:13.660 got off the rails. He had it wrong. His his foundational assumptions were all wrong. And I will tell you my own

00:50:20.480 take watching it is it gets very irritating because he's everyone there is kind of dismissing her as

00:50:27.920 this hysteric, you know, the the cops on scene. Brian's kind of laid back laughing like, oh, you know,

00:50:35.160 she's hysterical. And then in Gabby is the only one blaming herself. No one there is really probing whether

00:50:41.740 Brian is to blame like that to me is the the real problem here, Brian. I don't know how how do we train cops to

00:50:49.700 get past that when everyone both of the perpetrators are blaming the woman. And the cops here seem to

00:50:55.120 have a natural inclination that women are hysterical. And really, obviously, she's the emotional problem. 0.67

00:51:01.740 Right. And that really becomes obvious the biases that they have. They're clearly identifying with

00:51:07.280 Brian. Even during the stop, they have conversations with Brian saying, yeah, my wife gets crazy, too.

00:51:13.500 My wife gets upset, too. And so they're identifying with Brian and his situation in in dealing with an

00:51:21.500 upset woman. And so they're not seeing it from Gabby's perspective. So part of the training that

00:51:27.780 that officers and law enforcement need is not just, you know, what are the signs and what is the law,

00:51:34.000 but also to be aware of their own biases and to be aware enough to be able to put themselves in the

00:51:40.260 situation of both of the participants in a in a domestic violence situation.

00:51:45.420 Right. This is like I think most cops are coming to this thinking about themselves.

00:51:48.740 Like I would never hit my wife. I would obviously this isn't even like a tool in my brain that I can

00:51:54.980 go to as a possibility here. But of course, you're dealing with all sorts of people out there when you

00:51:59.920 pull a car over who are not cops, who are not trained in protecting other people and who are in

00:52:06.660 potential case in impossible cases, actual bad guys. Here are some of the questions from the

00:52:12.380 lethality assessment for our audience. Has he or she ever used a weapon against you or threatened you

00:52:17.520 with a weapon? Has he or she threatened to kill you or your children? Do you think he or she might try

00:52:21.600 to kill you? Do they have a gun? Can they get one easily? Have they ever tried to choke you? Have

00:52:26.740 they violently or constantly? Are they violently or constantly jealous? Or does he or she control most of

00:52:33.200 your daily activities? Have you left him or her or separated after living together or being married?

00:52:37.920 Are they unemployed? Have they ever tried to kill themselves? Do you have a child that is not your

00:52:44.000 partners? Do they ever spy on you or leave you threatening messages? So these are all great

00:52:48.820 questions. And you guys want this lethality assessment done in as many instances as possible.

00:52:54.760 But in the context of doing all this, you have a wrongful death lawsuit against that police

00:53:01.800 department in Moab, Utah. And they have defended it by citing this governmental immunity act,

00:53:09.900 which basically is a state decision not to allow itself to be subjected to these kinds of claims

00:53:14.280 because it would cost the taxpayers ultimately. And that's on its way up, Brian, to the Utah Supreme

00:53:20.200 Court, as I understand it. That's correct. The wrongful death lawsuit was dismissed at the trial

00:53:26.580 court level because of the governmental immunity act. But the Utah Constitution says that the legislature

00:53:36.640 and statute cannot infringe a person's ability to bring a wrongful death lawsuit against or to recover

00:53:45.120 in wrongful death for damages. And so there's a conflict between the Utah Constitution and this

00:53:50.620 governmental immunity statute. And that's the basis of our appeal to the Utah Supreme Court.

00:53:55.520 So you have obtained obtained a settlement from Brian Laundrie's parents already, correct, Brian?

00:54:05.980 There was some some settlement, but I'll let Joe and Tara speak to that if they'd like.

00:54:11.980 OK, sure. Yeah, I guess you can call it that. It's Florida. You know, we just wanted the answers,

00:54:19.060 to be honest with you. And the Brian Laundrie's estate was an arbitrary number that didn't exist.

00:54:26.020 Brian didn't have money. You know what I mean? So, I mean, he was 22. So, no, it's got nothing to do

00:54:33.140 with the other. We're we're strictly focused on helping people. That's that's what we're doing at

00:54:37.320 this point in time. And did you get did you get answers? Did they finally did they finally tell you

00:54:44.200 got answers? You know what I mean? We got as many answers as we can get. And we're not going to get

00:54:48.780 any bit more, you know. And to be honest with you, all I would do at this point in time would be

00:54:53.360 selfish, you know, gratification, but for a few seconds and then you go right back to being, you

00:54:58.300 know, hurt. And, you know, there's never closure on the death of a child, you know. So it's not going to

00:55:04.400 help me hearing those answers at this point anyway. It really isn't. You know, now now we want to hear,

00:55:10.040 you know, other stories and get those things out, get as much information out there to maybe inspire

00:55:15.360 someone to leave or help get a story out there for someone that's missing that, you know, can help

00:55:20.900 you, you know, get get found right away. I mean, that's that's what we do now. That's that's our

00:55:25.440 focus. Just just your participation in this documentary. You guys, I'd tell you, I have a

00:55:29.860 13 year old, almost 14 year old daughter, and I'm going to have her watch this. I'm going to watch

00:55:34.360 this with her and point out, you know, red flags moments where, you know, her own behavior, 0.89

00:55:43.200 her own her own guides should be up. Her guards should be up. God forbid this were ever happening

00:55:47.620 to her. And I'm sure there are millions of moms and dads across the country who will do the same

00:55:52.620 thing. I know it doesn't justify or really make anything better, but at least I think Gabby would

00:55:58.860 be glad to know she had some sort of a legacy that includes protecting other girls and women. 0.93

00:56:06.580 And and that's why we we did the documentary. Trust me, I did not want to sit down and interview

00:56:12.980 all day because it just opens up wounds. It just opens up. It just it's re-traumatizing. It's

00:56:20.640 re-triggering. It's it's so emotionally hard and exhausting. That's not why. But the reason that's

00:56:27.200 not why we did it, we did it so it could be used as a learning tool so that other young women can 1.00

00:56:32.680 look at it and see the red flags and see themselves in that same situation and be like, OK, if it can

00:56:38.320 happen to this beautiful, blonde, blue eyed girl, it can it can happen to me. It can happen because

00:56:43.740 domestic violence doesn't see a color. It doesn't see a financial status. It can happen to anybody at

00:56:48.740 any point in time. Doesn't know where you live. It just and I think that's the important part of it.

00:56:53.560 And that's the reason why we did it, just to create more awareness. And that's what it did.

00:56:58.240 We've had so many more emails coming into our foundation website. We've had requests for us

00:57:06.200 to go out and speak. We've had requests on tools and resources. I think we've had around

00:57:13.840 200,000 people since the documentary come out looking at the website.

00:57:19.460 Trying to find trying to find resources. So that was the one thing that was to your point.

00:57:26.340 I was going to say to your point about it doesn't discriminate against class. One of the other big

00:57:30.480 hits on Netflix these days is the the newest take on the OJ Simpson case. And it's excellent. It's

00:57:38.760 very well done. But of course, she died from domestic violence. She was killed by her abuser. And they were

00:57:45.680 as rich as you can get in America. And so it's like it doesn't discriminate based on money or success or

00:57:52.120 fame. I've had some pretty, pretty well known people contact me and just want to tell me their

00:57:58.700 story, you know, and for hours cry to me on the phone, you know what I mean, on their own domestic

00:58:04.620 violence issue that they had to, you know, go through. And that it really doesn't hold any

00:58:11.060 any status or race or gender. You know, it affects everybody and not just women. You know, there's

00:58:17.580 there are men who are victims. You know what I mean? Yeah. And when men try to tell their story,

00:58:23.360 they get laughed at. You know what I mean? People don't take them seriously. You know, so that's

00:58:28.420 something that we have to start doing to, you know, like 10 to 20 million children a year

00:58:32.420 are, you know, are they have to watch the trauma that that goes through watching your parents,

00:58:37.940 you know, do that, you know, to, to one another. It really is just, it's a conversation. And that's,

00:58:43.940 that was the point of the documentary to start that conversation to me as loud and as vocal as

00:58:48.060 possible to make sure that people talk about it in a way where it's an open conversation. There's no

00:58:56.200 shame in it for the victims. They can tell this story without fear of being judged and get the

00:59:02.880 help that they need. And yeah. Have you guys, have you learned anything in your, in your, you know,

00:59:09.940 studies really is what's been going on these past few years for you about what causes a man to become

00:59:16.240 abuse and abuser or a woman, but what causes one to become an abuser? Do we know the answer to that? 0.64

00:59:22.300 Well, that's a lot, you know, you can have, uh, hereditary traits, you know what I mean? You can

00:59:29.300 have, but it really boils down to control. And that's, that's the main thing, you know, when you,

00:59:36.280 and that's why leaving a domestic violence situation is the most dangerous because that's

00:59:40.660 when the control is gone. And so, yeah, it's, listen, if you don't have a partner, like an equal

00:59:48.400 partner, maybe this relationship is not the best. I don't know. I, listen, I don't know what's going

00:59:53.840 to work best for everybody else, but I can tell you what works for me. And listen, we're 50, 50,

00:59:58.300 probably, you know, more, more 60, 40 for her, to be honest with you. She tells me what to do,

01:00:02.120 you know, but it's, it's just really that way. You know, it's, it, you gotta, you gotta be equal

01:00:07.240 and you gotta make sure that you're able to have that open communication. Cause if you can't,

01:00:12.820 you probably shouldn't be in that situation to begin with.

01:00:14.900 It's not just about the education portion is not just about teaching the red flags. It's also

01:00:20.660 teaching how not to be an abuser. I mean, it's a, it's a cycle. So if it was, if they've grown up

01:00:27.400 with it, then not always, but if they grew up with it, they might become abusers. They might think that

01:00:32.920 that's the norm. So it's not just about teaching the red flags to individuals. It's more about both

01:00:39.640 ends. One of the things I did learn to me, for me, like it was, it was, you ever see like the

01:00:47.360 chihuahua and then the pit bull, right? That the pit bull thinks it's the size of the chihuahua and

01:00:50.860 the chihuahua thinks it's like the size of the pit bull. You know, for me, listen, I'm, I'm a bigger

01:00:55.120 guy. I'm six, three, two 70. Like it was kind of eyeopening where if I was to raise my voice and how

01:01:01.000 intimidating that could be, you know what I mean? And having to learn that and understand that is very

01:01:05.280 difficult for some people and, and knowing what, you know, how our relationships is supposed to be

01:01:12.600 and how the dialogue is supposed to go, you know, raising your voice, throwing stuff like that's

01:01:17.960 not okay. And situations that you're in like that, again, there's a phone number 1-800-799-SAFE.

01:01:24.040 That's, you know, we should talk about it more. You know, we should teach our youth that, you know,

01:01:29.320 the, you know, uh, these are the signs, these are what happens, you know? So the more that we talk

01:01:34.260 about it, the more that they see, the less likely you can help the ones that, yeah, but the more we

01:01:40.180 educate, the, the, the, the, the lesson. Part of what you said is, is really relevant here and

01:01:47.540 taking accountability for your own wrongdoing is obviously a very important piece of what we

01:01:54.200 are supposed to be teaching our children. And I have to say, just to round it out, that brings me

01:01:58.760 back to burn after reading the letter that Brian Landry's mother, Roberta wrote to him. We're

01:02:05.420 unsure, I guess, of the date of this. There's a lot of speculation. She wrote this after he got back

01:02:11.760 from the trip before Gabby's remains were found, though. I don't think we've ever specified exactly

01:02:17.640 when it was written. And to the audience, since I told you I'd come back to it, she writes as follows,

01:02:22.080 just in part, I just want you to remember, I'll always love you. And I know you'll always love me.

01:02:26.500 You are my boy. Nothing will make me stop loving you. Nothing will or could ever divide us.

01:02:30.780 No matter what we do or where we go or what we say, we will always love each other.

01:02:35.240 If you're in jail, I will bake a cake with a file in it. If you need to dispose of a body,

01:02:40.940 I will show up with a shovel and garbage bags and goes on and then ends with nothing can separate us,

01:02:47.840 not hatred, not hunger, not homelessness, not threats, not even sin, not the thinkable or

01:02:53.120 unthinkable can get between us, not time, not miles and miles and miles. Now, she claimed that

01:02:58.860 it was written before his trip with Gabby, but we all have our doubts about whether that's true.

01:03:04.840 But just the, I know it's easy for me to say is, thank God my kids are young and have not committed

01:03:11.520 any sins like this whatsoever. But it does, I would like to believe that God forbid one of my children

01:03:17.800 made a horrendous mistake like this, a horrendous decision like this. My first instinct would be

01:03:24.340 to help them take responsibility for it and try to find redemption. And now to do the next best

01:03:32.400 right thing. Now to do the next right thing. What, what, what, what do you guys wish Roberta

01:03:38.960 and forgive me, I can't remember her husband's name had done in the moments when, when Brian returned to

01:03:44.460 them, Chris? Listen, I understand wanting to protect your child. I get it. You know, you want

01:03:51.260 to get an attorney and stuff like that. I get it, you know, because sometimes, you know, nothing happens

01:03:56.420 and you might need it. So I understand how wanting to protect your child, you know, and I also understand

01:04:01.600 that they lost a child, you know, that's something that we understand, you know, and I sympathize with

01:04:07.140 that when it comes to them. Uh, that's the only thing that I sympathize when it comes to them. But

01:04:11.160 you know, if my child would just do something, you know, wrong like that, I would say, listen,

01:04:17.040 you know what, we have a problem. Um, you need to look here for your child's, you know, uh, we have

01:04:23.200 an attorney, you know, I'm not going to let him speak, but I'm, again, my opinion, I think Brian

01:04:27.660 would possibly be a lot if they held him accountable. Right. Right. Oh, listen, you guys, I admire your

01:04:36.520 strength and your commitment to trying to make some silver lining come out of this tragedy. I'm

01:04:41.780 totally with you. All the best to you. Good luck in the battles ahead. And please let us know if we

01:04:47.040 can be of any additional help. Will do all the best to you guys. Please send my regards to, to,

01:04:52.280 to Jim and Nikki and Brian. Thank you as well for coming on and telling the story, which we will stay

01:04:56.760 on and we'll be right back. These days, personal safety is not something that can be left to chance,

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01:07:23.700 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM. It's your home for open, honest,

01:07:30.000 and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal,

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01:08:21.680 Now we turn to some cultural news. Disney's long-awaited Snow White set to hit theaters

01:08:32.500 tomorrow, and the controversial star of it is working to rehab her image big time after spending 1.00

01:08:38.760 the last few years bashing the classic film and Snow White. Plus, Hilaria Baldwin, hello Hillary,

01:08:45.820 we know you're from a Boston suburb, not Spain, in a wild red carpet video with her husband, Alec.

01:08:52.040 Have you seen the video? It's very strange. And Dylan Mulvaney's back. We're going to get to it all

01:08:57.880 with our culture panel, not to mention, wait until you found out what Megan Markle just did. 1.00

01:09:02.280 Our panel today, Link Lauren, influencer and former senior advisor to RFK Jr., and Christian

01:09:08.360 Toto, host of the Hollywood in Toto podcast. Guys, welcome back to the show. Great to have you.

01:09:13.960 Thanks for having me. Link, look at you. You're so formal today. All dressed up.

01:09:20.660 I know. I am dressed up. I have on a suit and tie. I'm in D.C. I'm going to have lunch at the

01:09:25.760 White House, and I'm very excited. So I'm like, I need to dress up. I know.

01:09:30.140 You are? Are you having lunch with the president?

01:09:32.620 I don't think so. But one of my friends works there. He's like, why don't you come have lunch

01:09:36.300 at the White House? It has to be at this specific time in the West Wing. I'm like, I'm there.

01:09:40.720 I'm coming. So we're honored that you made time for us.

01:09:46.240 Enjoy the Big Mac.

01:09:47.460 I have this feeling if Trump's lingering around, I can say hi. He knows I'm his biggest fan. So

01:09:52.740 if he's lingering around, I'm definitely going to say hi to the president.

01:09:56.280 Totally. You should ask your friend, say, is there any way I can say hi? And he's so great

01:10:00.660 about that kind of thing.

01:10:02.320 Yeah, 100 percent. That has to happen. I'm going to be checking your timeline all day.

01:10:05.580 Well, I'm also going back tomorrow, so I don't get it today.

01:10:08.800 You're going back tomorrow? Is that what you said?

01:10:12.740 Yeah, they're doing this influencer thing at two. So I'm going to that as well. So

01:10:17.420 I'm excited and grateful.

01:10:18.540 Look at you. You're basically, you've spent more time there than Melania. That's what you're

01:10:22.220 telling me.

01:10:23.820 Don't get me in trouble. I don't want my lunch canceled, Megan.

01:10:26.720 No, I won't. You're right. I take it back. I take it all back. All right, let's start on

01:10:30.480 something far less controversial, which is Snow White. So I think it's fair to say that

01:10:36.220 no one on the right side of America can stand the star of this movie. And yet, Christian,

01:10:41.360 you've seen the movie and it appears that the filmmakers coddled together enough salvageable

01:10:46.960 material to make the movie itself quite nice.

01:10:51.100 Yeah, it's not a train wreck. I was expecting just that. And listen, it's not a great film.

01:10:55.420 It's got its flaws. And this third act is completely rewritten to be more empowering,

01:11:00.480 I think you know the drill. But one of the reasons why Rachel Zegler sticks around is 1.00

01:11:05.080 she's got a beautiful voice and she has some talent. So I think that certainly helps her

01:11:09.140 because she's a PR nightmare. I don't know how anyone would hire her. But again, there 1.00

01:11:13.880 is some talent there. You know, it is a familiar story. I think kids will enjoy it. A couple

01:11:19.640 little scary moments, but nothing that much. But given all the behind the scenes mayhem,

01:11:24.200 I expected Frankenstein's monster where it seems to be stitched together. It's not quite that

01:11:30.000 way. So again, not a great film. But I think a lot of these live action updates are really

01:11:34.800 hard to watch. This one wasn't. But again, they've really done so much stepping on rakes

01:11:41.620 over the last few months with this project where the box office is just not going to recover.

01:11:46.600 Did the dwarfs make it or no? 1.00

01:11:49.640 Well, the CGI dwarfs did. Of course, that goes back to the original controversy where 0.56

01:11:53.720 Peter Dinklage, a very talented little person actor said, why are we doing that? We've hired

01:11:59.300 a Latina actress to be Snow White. That's progressive. But you're going to hire little 1.00

01:12:03.640 people to play the dwarfs. That just seems like a step backwards. And then of course, 0.86

01:12:07.800 Disney instantly buckled and said, OK, we're going to add magical creatures. And then the picture of

01:12:13.760 the magical creatures leaked online and everyone just had an absolute blast laughing at it. So

01:12:19.180 the magical creatures are here in the movie. The CGI dwarfs are here in the movie. 1.00

01:12:24.700 It works to a degree, but it's certainly going to be a financial hit for Disney. That's for sure.

01:12:30.720 That is totally uplifting and the right way to be woke link when you actually canceled the roles

01:12:35.600 for the marginalized population, because just putting them on screen is somehow racist.

01:12:41.340 So I remember back in 2023 when this was going on and all the little people making videos saying,

01:12:47.100 well, wait, there's so few roles for us in Hollywood. We're being passed over for this.

01:12:51.900 You could have cast seven little people.

01:12:53.560 Right. Screw you, Peter Dinklage.

01:12:54.680 Exactly. They're like, Peter Dinklage, you're rich. We're not. We're trying to be extras or,

01:12:59.040 you know, we're in Johnny Knoxville's jackass if we're lucky. And so for them, they're like,

01:13:03.060 you're not going to cast us to be inclusive and progressive. But these guys at Disney,

01:13:07.340 they're not that bright. They're not that smart. And we see that because they can't come up with any new IP.

01:13:12.880 Why not write some new movies? You guys sit around. You have billions of dollars.

01:13:16.360 They keep going back and rewriting the classics to be more feminist 0.99

01:13:19.900 and inclusive of the female experience. I'm like, every Disney movie is about a woman

01:13:24.880 waiting for a man. Okay. Sleeping Beauty. She is comatose until a man comes to kiss her and wake

01:13:30.520 her up. Rapunzel, she's up in a tower, you know, taking biotin, hair vitamins, waiting for a man. 1.00

01:13:36.060 This is what these women are doing. Is it the best? Yes. Cinderella. Is this the best message to 0.71

01:13:40.820 Cindy young girls? No, but you don't have to rewrite and rework the classics. Come up with 1.00

01:13:45.400 something new, you guys. It's a good idea. You know, it's funny. I went to see My Fair Lady

01:13:50.740 at Lincoln Center several years ago when my kids were young. And, you know, that's, of course,

01:13:55.820 about Eliza Doolittle and Henry Higgins, the professor who tries to make her into an upper

01:14:00.560 crust lady or fool people into thinking she is in any event. And they ended it in the actual film

01:14:08.000 version and they end it together. Like the two of them to develop a romance and she stays with him.

01:14:13.840 And in, in the Lincoln theater, uh, New York city version, no, she leaves him of course, because you

01:14:20.040 can't, he is kind of a prick, but I'm sorry. The story is what it is. Like you say, like come up with

01:14:26.180 your own stories. Go ahead, Christian. Exactly. Well, that, you know, that's what they do in the

01:14:29.800 movie. They they're, they're so torn. They know there's a romance here. They've got a prince like

01:14:34.660 character, but he's not a prince. He's like a Robin hood guy. And they know that there's 0.96

01:14:37.980 got to be a kiss. There's got to be certain elements that they can avoid. Boy, they are

01:14:42.180 uncomfortable with that particular sequence. So it's like they're together, but they're not

01:14:47.220 together. She's got to be the hero. She's got to be front and center. We're going to push him to the

01:14:50.800 side as much as possible. Oh, and by the way, he's pretty important to the stories. We'll drag him

01:14:55.000 back in. Then we'll push him back out. It's awkward. It's absolutely, it just, you can tell

01:14:58.860 it was cisgender, man. He can't be this. He can't be the savior here. You've got to be 0.99

01:15:02.800 got to have Rachel Zegler front center. So it's, it's really, it's torturous at that point. It's

01:15:07.840 one of the weakest parts of the movie. She's going to like freeze her eggs in the next one and be 1.00

01:15:11.720 single. This is the same. It'll be easy for her because of the snow. This is the same woman who

01:15:18.980 posted on Instagram after the election. I find myself speechless in the midst of this. Another

01:15:24.580 four years of hatred, learning, leaning us toward a world I do not want to live in, leaning us toward a

01:15:31.000 world that will be hard to raise my daughter in. P.S. There's no daughter. Leaning us toward a world

01:15:35.920 that will force her to have a baby she doesn't want. There's no daughter and there's no daughter's 1.00

01:15:40.060 baby. Leaning us toward a world that is fearful. This law should not have been, and it certainly

01:15:46.980 should not have been by so many votes. I echo Ethel Kane's statement more than anything. May Trump

01:15:53.680 supporters and Trump voters and Trump himself never know peace. Then she discusses the deep,

01:15:59.100 deep sickness in this country. There is no help, no counsel in any of them. And she also attacked

01:16:05.700 Twitter and Elon and finished it all with fuck Donald Trump. So it's one of the reasons why

01:16:14.020 she's not like the ideal choice for the lead role in sweet snow white and why many people are still 0.98

01:16:20.820 not to mention all the terrible things she said about including, well, let me just play the one of

01:16:25.080 the ones that got her in trouble when she ripped on snow white back in 2022. Sot 38.

01:16:31.180 I just mean that it's no longer 1937 and we absolutely wrote a snow white. That is not

01:16:37.300 going to be saved by the prince. She's not going to be saved by the prince and she's not going to

01:16:40.680 be dreaming about true love. She's dreaming about becoming the leader. She knows she can be.

01:16:45.180 By the way, I'm insulted because she's assumed the gender of her future child. I don't think that's 1.00

01:16:51.600 right. Good point. Good point. I mean, what also confounds me, I mean, a hot take, so don't drag me

01:16:58.200 in the comments, but the super liberal pro abortion women like Rachel Zegler, they're always single 1.00

01:17:03.660 and alone. I'm like, I think you're safe. Actually, I think you're fine. I'm saying so she's pretty

01:17:09.660 just calm down. Most of the women saying like, I'm, I'm putting on the chastity belt. It's like, 1.00

01:17:14.340 you're good. No, you know, you've got purple hair and nose rings. You're good.

01:17:18.920 You know, years ago, Drew Barrymore was doing the Charlie's Angels reboot and she spoke so lovingly

01:17:24.240 of the source material. Listen, I grew up with Charlie's Angels. It was a trashy, schlocky show.

01:17:28.340 It was not fine art, but she was sweet and kind and said, you know, we're going to do the best we can to

01:17:33.240 bring this to a modern age. Now you have Rachel Zegler saying, oh, that 1937 movie. That's just,

01:17:38.700 oh, it's tacky. It's weird. It's, oh, we're going to change all that. I mean, what a difference.

01:17:44.640 And now she's trying to reinvent herself because there's been so much blowback and you can only

01:17:49.360 imagine the studio calls about this woman behind the scene. Like, oh my God, we're $242 million in

01:17:54.800 and our lead actress hates our film, our actors, our storyline. There's rumors that she and Gal Gadot

01:18:01.300 don't get along either because one's pro Palestinian, one, one is pro Israel. Um, it's just a total 0.78

01:18:06.480 nightmare for the studios. So now she's trying to sell like, oh, I love Snow White. I love

01:18:13.500 everything about the whole story. Here she is more recently, um, trying to change the messaging.

01:18:18.920 This is actually Wednesday, 39 a loud already. Three, two, one.

01:18:25.940 Snow White.

01:18:28.840 This is beautiful. You look lovely.

01:18:36.860 I love you.

01:18:38.140 You love me. I love you.

01:18:40.260 Thank you so much for being here and to see this is really emotional for me. So I'm going

01:18:46.100 to try to not do that. Um, I love her and her superpower is her heart. It's nothing supernatural.

01:18:52.860 It's something that all of us have. Thank you. And I hope you enjoy Snow White. Thank you guys.

01:18:57.960 I'm sorry. That was acting. That's what that was. There was a hope just off screen. They were going

01:19:07.940 to yank her off if she kind of did a free Palestine chant. I wouldn't even recognize her on the street. 0.99

01:19:13.860 So I have, I find it hard to believe these kids are coming up and asking for selfies. This has to

01:19:17.720 be set up. I wouldn't know her from Adam walking down the block. No, the reason they knew who she was

01:19:22.820 because that took place at Walt Disney world. And undeniably those, those children had just

01:19:27.380 exited from the, um, what's it called the Cinderella shop where you can get your child

01:19:31.440 a little dress and they've got trannies in there. They've got a bunch of men with beards wearing 1.00

01:19:36.160 princess dresses, trying to costume up our children. So they were probably like, Oh my God,

01:19:40.140 an actual pretty woman. Yes. Closest thing to a Disney prison princess. I'm ever going to find a 1.00

01:19:45.180 Disney world. I'm sorry, but I don't really care what happens with this movie. I really hope her

01:19:49.980 career is pretty much over. I'd be thrilled to see that. I can't imagine. I mean, Christian, you tell

01:19:53.600 me, but is, is she not seen as box office poison now because of all of her antics? 1.00

01:19:59.620 You know, uh, it's a, it's kind of a mixed track record. She's still fairly young. Her West Side

01:20:04.360 story debut was not a hit and that was a Spielberg movie. So that was kind of surprised. But if you're

01:20:09.120 an, if you're a studio, if you're a director, if you're a casting director, you've got to think

01:20:13.140 twice or three times before hiring her. Listen, she's talented. She's attractive. She's got skill, 1.00

01:20:17.380 but there are a lot of actresses in Hollywood who bring all that to the table and are not going to 1.00

01:20:22.000 absolutely sabotage your work. Today's actors don't know how to promote their own movies.

01:20:26.420 They spend so much time on the red carpet, you know, talking to Stephen Colbert, doing all these

01:20:31.640 things. It's all publicity. It seems so easy and they keep putting their feet in their mouth. I don't

01:20:37.640 understand it. Well, you saw what she said to Allure magazine when she was promoting Snow White just this

01:20:43.920 week. She kind of ripped on Steven Spielberg, not directly or by name, but clearly it was about

01:20:49.480 him and his team in that movie West Side Story where she said, um, she claims that the white

01:20:54.580 executives on that movie made her prove her Latina heritage. Um, there's confusion because I don't

01:21:01.820 have a single ounce of Latin in my name. When I was running for in the running for Maria in West Side

01:21:07.600 story, they kept calling to ask if I was legit. I remember thinking, do you want me to bring in my

01:21:13.760 abuelita? I will. I'll bring her in the studio. If you want to meet her. Zegler expresses some

01:21:20.380 bemusement at quote, having a bunch of white executives, have you prove your identity to them?

01:21:25.720 Now, I don't care what they say like on camera or to magazines behind the scenes. You guys know as well

01:21:34.880 as I do that those executives like Spielberg are looking at that saying Rachel Zegler can F right

01:21:41.360 off. Well, I feel like this is what Alec Baldwin should have done when he was vetting Hilaria. Are

01:21:47.180 you actually Latina? Are you actually who you say you are? I do want to meet your abuelita. I need a 23

01:21:53.640 and me, honey. I need some DNA, saliva test. So yeah, no, Rachel Zegler, she needs to be more grateful

01:21:59.740 for the role she had. If I were cast in a Disney movie, I would be saying I love Disney. I love

01:22:04.640 Snow White. I wouldn't be saying anything negative. She's almost pulling a Rachel Maddow. Remember when 0.67

01:22:09.580 Rachel Maddow, like a few weeks ago, she got on air and she's like, this network sucks and the

01:22:13.500 changes they're making. Sweetie, you're being paid 25 million and you're on TV saying your bosses suck.

01:22:18.940 So Rachel Zegler, maybe keep your mouth shut. Listen, it's the coin of the realm in Hollywood to be a

01:22:23.660 victim. That's just it. So any, any chance you can portray it? Listen, she was plucked out of obscurity

01:22:29.640 by Steven Spielberg. All you say is thank you, Mr. Spielberg. And you keep saying that for the next 50

01:22:35.080 years because he made her career. Yes. It's like those snot nosed Harry Potter stars who never miss

01:22:42.480 an opportunity to stab J.K. Rowling for they think being a bigot. I completely disagree. Of course, she's

01:22:48.640 just standing up for women's rights. Okay, so that's that. But you make a nice transition for us link to 0.94

01:22:52.880 Alec Baldwin. What in God's green earth is going on between those two? So they go. I don't know what

01:23:03.280 this event was that they appeared on the red carpet to discuss it. Was it like some award ceremony

01:23:07.440 involving their, their reality show? Um, but that they show up planet Hollywood. Okay. They're at

01:23:14.640 planet Hollywood, but they're speaking on the red carpet. And these clips have gone totally viral

01:23:19.600 because she's a nasty person to him. I mean, it's, there's trouble in paradise. Uh, here's let's kick

01:23:28.400 it off with SOC 25. Is it harder to memorize scripts or be yourself on unscripted television?

01:23:35.840 Be yourself. Oh, it's so hard. It's so hard. Yeah. Well, it's a good question. I think it's because

01:23:41.680 you want, you don't want it to be dull. And just, if you showed the way our life really is,

01:23:46.120 you get it after like an hour, feel the, you feel kind of feel the desire to make it more

01:23:50.360 silly than it might be. I, I have to say that every, I don't think you make it more silly than it is.

01:23:56.420 I actually feel, I feel, no, no, we just, we just cut all that part out. Cut me out. Cut you out.

01:24:02.440 Or in queen routine is key. We'll just say king and queen at the same time. It's essential. It's

01:24:07.880 essential. But you know, I think that us trying to every day essential in Spanish isn't yet. Okay.

01:24:16.400 Um, yeah. Um, Oh my God, you're distracting me right now. Like now you're just doing that. Why?

01:24:22.760 Why are you distracting me? Yeah. You're just distracting me. No, but Oh my God. Stop. You're

01:24:27.840 annoying me. Stop. It's not cute. No, he's distracting me. So I'm going to like walk out of this interview.

01:24:34.340 I need the motherhood notes. You are doing an amazing. No. Okay. Go back. Let me go back.

01:24:38.820 It's all about routine. Whoa. People link. They don't like each other. She doesn't like him.

01:24:48.700 Yeah, but he should have reassessed that maybe after the sixth child before the seventh. I mean,

01:24:54.220 you keep going back to the same. Well, I, you're in this apartment with seven kids, nannies, animals,

01:24:59.420 screaming, crying, housekeepers. No wonder the man wants to get out of there and run for the hills,

01:25:03.860 but I just can't feel sorry for him. Cause you've made your bed and now you have to lie in it. Right.

01:25:08.520 You married this woman with like multiple personalities and fake names and accents. 0.98

01:25:12.980 What did you expect? She was not going to be somewhat mentally unwell, but you know, my rule

01:25:17.980 is always, I don't care if you're having a fight with your boyfriend, your partner, your husband,

01:25:22.240 if you show up to dinner or an event, get it together. Nobody wants to see you bicker. And there's

01:25:28.100 some couples who I think almost get off on that. Like when they go to dinner parties, it's like,

01:25:31.880 they kind of like to humiliate each other or bicker and fight in public. And it's just so

01:25:36.040 awkward for everybody else. And so, no, I just got secondhand embarrassment watching that. I think

01:25:41.280 Ellaria is also thinking, Oh, he has no money now, no career. He's persona non grata. I got to find

01:25:46.780 another husband. I think she's kind of over it. She's like, now I'm in this apartment. We got,

01:25:50.260 we sold the house in the Hamptons. We have nothing.

01:25:52.160 Like it's true. At least Megan Markle still has Harry's Royal status or at least kind of real

01:25:57.660 status. She's got that to hold onto, but this guy, it's like, you're right. His fortune's

01:26:01.240 dwindling. He's not really going to be a major movie star anymore. She missed the peak Alec Baldwin,

01:26:05.200 which was clearly hunt for red October. And she's stuck with the leftovers here, which who killed a 0.99

01:26:10.180 woman. And you know, like you say, it's now persona non grata, but that like it happened over and

01:26:15.020 over in that one clip, you, you know, he said, you're so beautiful. And she's like, no, 0.96

01:26:18.960 no, no. And actually there's another one kind of like that. Uh, yeah. Did we just play this

01:26:25.340 in SOT 28? SOT 28? No, no, no. This is another, this is another piece of the same exchange. SOT 28.

01:26:32.740 I hope people read my wife's book and realize what, uh, like an unusually amazing woman she is. 0.58

01:26:39.640 My wife was, my wife is probably one of the most special people. She is probably the most special

01:26:44.660 person I've ever met in my life. Her qualities are just so the combinations that kind of mind

01:26:50.760 blowing. Anyway. So that's what he said after she was saying all the nasty things about him,

01:26:57.200 including this one, which I forgot to play SOT 26.

01:26:59.440 We want more of this season two. The Ilaria show. No, no. I, I think we're going to see,

01:27:09.640 you know, it's, we're going to see how it feels to have it be out there. This is great. You're a

01:27:13.720 winner. Oh my God. When I'm talking, you're not talking. No, when I'm talking, you're not talking.

01:27:17.960 This is why. Yes. We'll have to like, just cut him out of the show. No.

01:27:21.420 I like, I'm on, I'm so uncomfortable, Christian. Yeah. Uh, a couple of things. One, if you look

01:27:29.200 carefully, he's actually blinking SOS and Morse code. He wants to get out. And also, if you looked

01:27:34.800 at that last clip, he actually does the JD Vance meme from the VP debate. He kind of does like one

01:27:40.020 of those eye, eye lifts to the, uh, the camera. So yeah, let's, you know, I, I never thought I'd

01:27:45.800 feel bad for Alec Baldwin. I feel very badly for Alec Baldwin today. I do. But then when he was seeing

01:27:50.180 her praises, it was almost like he was brainwashed. He was like a branch Davidian saying, I love 0.99

01:27:55.080 David Koresh. Like I want to get off the compound. Like Alec Baldwin going, she's an amazing wife. 1.00

01:28:00.500 She's an incredible mother. You know, she doesn't, you just never know what accent she's going 0.95

01:28:04.040 to have today. And her yoga career is going to take off soon. Um, yeah, it was just really

01:28:08.340 weird when he started singing her praises. He is brainwashed and fighting for his life.

01:28:12.180 She was still doing her little Spanish accent. Wasn't she? Did you hear it? No, we're not 0.99

01:28:14.980 talking. You're not talking. You're not talking. We're not talking. Like we know you're

01:28:19.320 from a Tony suburb of Boston and went to a ritzy private girl school for some probably

01:28:23.800 50 grand a year at this point. Like it's ridiculous how she continues to perpetuate this fraud on 1.00

01:28:29.360 us. Okay. This is not, I'm not done there. They were asked whether they're going to have

01:28:34.140 a season two of their reality show. Who's watching the reality show? Okay. And here is, um, here's

01:28:43.200 a bit of him speaking to that, uh, standby. Is this, I don't know if this is during the interview.

01:28:47.960 Who is this? Hold on. Let me ask my team. Yeah. Okay. It is. Saw 27 still.

01:28:53.160 So I predict now on television, on American television, that season two is going to be

01:28:58.400 you and Carmen. It's going to be the two of them. They have their own show.

01:29:01.300 Can I tell you from now on, unless it's history, don't take anything that this guy is going to say

01:29:05.960 because he just invents it on the spot. It's all like, whoa, what?

01:29:09.520 They hate each other.

01:29:12.400 Just ask the, the people who brought the gun lawsuit against him. You know, he, he just got

01:29:18.460 charges dropped, you know, and notwithstanding like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I never pulled

01:29:23.260 a trigger. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I never. And she's out there like, you can't believe a word

01:29:27.020 he says he lies. And it ends with him begging her for a pat on the head chasing photographers

01:29:35.440 away from him. And now he's welcome cameras into his house. You'd know, it's her idea. She wants

01:29:40.020 to be even more famous than she is. And, uh, how you say cringe, it just, it's unbelievable.

01:29:44.960 Well, I also feel like people's desperation and principles kind of go down when they have no money.

01:29:51.320 I mean, Alec Baldwin is really in dire straits financially, and they probably offered him a

01:29:55.280 bunch of money to do this reality show. And now he's stuck in this house with all these kids.

01:29:59.060 I feel like the reality show is probably the first time he's been at home with them for,

01:30:01.920 you know, days and days on end filming. He's probably going crazy.

01:30:04.240 You're an eyewitness to this, right? Link, I saw a post that you made an ex.

01:30:08.660 Yes. So let me preface this by saying I'm normally a hear, no evil, see, no evil person. That's why

01:30:13.820 people trust me. I'm like, I've seen some things. I keep my mouth shut. But with Alec Baldwin,

01:30:17.780 I'm like, who cares? So I used to live around the street from Alec Baldwin. He would always be

01:30:21.980 either pacing outside one of the buildings I went to for class, yelling into the phone,

01:30:26.860 or he'd be eating at Il Cantanori alone by himself, which is this restaurant on 10th Street.

01:30:31.200 And they live on 10th Street down the street. And he would just be downing wine. His phone had one

01:30:35.360 of those kickstand cases. So he would sit there just for hours watching videos, watching games.

01:30:41.280 And I thought, man, this guy does not want to go home to that apartment tonight until all those

01:30:46.100 kids are in bed, until bath time and bedtime is done, because it is chaos and crazy over there.

01:30:52.660 Or maybe it's because his very nasty wife can't stand him. I would avoid that house too. 0.89

01:30:57.740 She's like a dominatrix or something. 1.00

01:31:00.360 I mean, maybe that's what's going on. There's something. But, you know, we spent the first

01:31:05.920 hour talking about DV. And I'm not saying there's domestic violence situation, but it can happen

01:31:10.400 to men. Not for nothing, but it can happen to men. And I don't know what's happening there,

01:31:15.000 but she does not love him. That's what I saw. I mean, I've been interrupted by my husband before,

01:31:19.380 and I've interrupted him before. And, you know, you always handle that with like a joke,

01:31:23.800 you know, like, I don't know. I don't know exactly what I'd say, but I, I probably just

01:31:29.160 let it pass. I wouldn't embarrass him on camera.

01:31:32.260 Yeah. I mean, like my boyfriend and I, we've gotten into arguments on the way to group dinners.

01:31:36.780 And he's like, well, walk into dinner and tell everyone we're breaking up. We go into dinner and

01:31:40.680 have a great time because you can be an adult. Okay. So I don't know why they can't keep their

01:31:44.840 crap together for 10 minutes on the red carpet. I think it's that bad behind the red carpet.

01:31:49.940 Exactly. Well then don't have dinner with Doug Brunt because he, if he doesn't like you,

01:31:54.700 he will actually turn his chair. Like he will turn and like, start looking over here. And like the

01:32:01.300 dinner is all happening here. And now I've just got to do such heavy lifting. Like my God,

01:32:05.040 Doug, you left me. What do you mean? He's like, I, I couldn't, he does not have it in him to like

01:32:10.320 feign the insincerity with somebody he doesn't like, which I have to say is an important social skill

01:32:15.920 in life. You have to have this. He just won't. He's like, no, I'm out. Right. Also, this is,

01:32:22.340 this is Alec Baldwin. We're talking about this guy's a powder keg. Do you really want to keep

01:32:26.820 pissing him off constantly day in and day out? I mean, what is she doing? She's not thinking this

01:32:31.120 through. Well, all right. Let me take you to the background a little bit because they're,

01:32:34.720 they're reality show. The Baldwin's, um, it's, it airs on TLC and here's a little bit. Our producers

01:32:42.720 found of him and talking on the show, watch stop 29. So when I bought this house, it was a cold

01:32:50.460 winter day in December of 95 in the Hamptons. Is that okay with the noise of those people?

01:32:56.180 And the world was like, no, we're going to throw a tree in your way. Can I do a face scrub on you?

01:33:01.360 Like not right now. We have to whisper now because daddy is having a monologue. It's an,

01:33:06.440 it's emblematic. Um, this is my wife's bathroom, toilet, sink, shower in here. 1.00

01:33:14.820 My bathroom's around the corner. My little, uh, cabin bathroom.

01:33:22.440 That's really funny. They used to say that.

01:33:25.680 Oh my God. So first of all, why is his hair like down, like the bangs in the front, like sort of a,

01:33:31.720 I don't know, character from like a Coen brothers movie. And once again, there she is in the 1.00

01:33:36.560 background with her fake Spanish accent, right? Like we have to, we cannot make it now. Like what 0.71

01:33:42.880 she's doing. Even if you saw him on late night TV, like my wife, she's in Spain. I mean, at this point,

01:33:48.160 you really have to wonder whether they've convinced themselves she's Spanish. She's Hillary from Boston, 0.97

01:33:54.420 but that's how they live, right? She's got the enormous bathroom that you could probably fit your 1.00

01:33:59.520 average New York city apartment into Alex walking around with his weird Coen brother's hair and his 0.96

01:34:04.960 enormous belly, like listless. That's what I, how I would describe that. Your thoughts.

01:34:11.060 Yeah. I mean, a Laria reminds me of this friend I had in college. She said she was from Naples and

01:34:15.540 let's go to Naples for spring break. I said, amazing. She was from Naples, Florida.

01:34:21.360 So Laria who said she's from Spain, it must be from the Spanish coast of Boston, this phony ass woman, 1.00

01:34:27.960 but yeah, no, Alec Baldwin, he needs to either divorce, cut his losses. But the thing is,

01:34:32.860 how much, you know, child support is he going to have to pay if they get divorced for seven children?

01:34:37.080 He's done. So he's almost like, it's almost better for him just to stay in the marriage and suffer and

01:34:41.800 go through this whole thing. I couldn't imagine his kids are really tiny. It's not like he has kids in

01:34:46.120 high school. They're what? Single digits. So we wish you well, Alec. Cheers. Yeah.

01:34:51.240 Well, she said, Christian. Yeah, go ahead.

01:34:53.860 So where's the cultural appropriation police where, you know, you can't do this. You can't

01:34:58.400 just say I'm a certain ethnicity and then embrace the accent and pretend it from there. I mean,

01:35:03.680 the woke crowd should have canceled her years ago. By the way, why wasn't he canceled years ago?

01:35:08.340 He had alleged racist slurs. He had alleged gay slurs, physical violence here, there and everywhere.

01:35:16.420 And he just kind of marched on and kept making movies. That was amazing.

01:35:19.220 Well, it depends on how big a star you are and how hot you are on whether you will get canceled

01:35:25.600 as a Hollywood actor. Right. I do think there are these intangibles that get factored in as to

01:35:31.460 whether they kick you out. Like Kevin Spacey, he wasn't hot enough. Alec Baldwin, he doesn't look that

01:35:37.280 way. At his peak, he was quite dreamy. And I do believe that's kind of what Larry, I thought she was

01:35:42.780 marrying. And now it's a different story. I mean, she said herself that he's walking around with PTSD

01:35:48.380 after the whole shooting on the Rusk set. And so that's probably true. I hope somebody gets him

01:35:55.520 the help he needs. So I think the three of us might need to drive by in a flower van to grab him

01:36:00.840 and get him to greener pastures. Okay. Okay. Moving on. Dylan Mulvaney back in the news. I'm sorry,

01:36:08.760 audience. I'm sorry, but we're just going to spend a minute on Dylan Mulvaney, who has now not only

01:36:13.540 dropped a memoir, but has opened up a podcast and it's called the Dylan hour. I'm sure you're

01:36:21.500 all writing it down and good to going to subscribe now, but here is his opening song. By the way,

01:36:27.740 Dylan Mulvaney, for those of you who don't know, is a man pretending to be a woman and making a living

01:36:31.220 off of describing his hundred days of girlhood and now his days of womanhood. And he is not a woman 0.98

01:36:38.040 or a girl. He is a man. Here is the opening song for his pod.

01:36:41.700 In the shower. On a walk. The Dylan hour. Feeling sweet. Feeling sour. I feel nothing. The Dylan hour.

01:36:51.300 My couch is open. It's better than therapy. All your soccer moms. All your days and thems. All your bottom

01:36:59.080 boys. My bisexual fems. Come one and all. Disassociate with me. It's free. Grab a drink. Or two or three. 1.00

01:37:07.800 You have no friends. All good. You got me. It's the Dylan hour.

01:37:17.980 Love ya.

01:37:20.580 I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I apologize. Forgive me. It had to be done. And you guys, I'm the one who did

01:37:29.400 it to you. Christian, will you be writing that one up soon and a review, same as Snow White?

01:37:34.900 Absolutely. I mean, I just want to focus like the show on girls, gays and days, which is part of their

01:37:39.760 promotional push. You know, I want to tie this back to Snow White briefly. If you would put Dylan

01:37:46.560 Mulvaney in Snow White, it would be offensive. She would be kind of mincing around as Snow White 1.00

01:37:51.940 and that would be offensive. And yet in movies today, every female seems to be this tough warrior 1.00

01:37:57.800 and, you know, she can beat up six men and she's empowered and strong. And yet Dylan just kind of

01:38:02.740 goes around as a sort of caricature of a woman. But no one's upset about that. Dylan is six men.

01:38:09.520 I, you know, Link, I'll tell you something. Just, just because I knew you guys are going to be coming

01:38:13.040 on. We'd be talking about this person. I actually downloaded his audio book. I didn't make it through

01:38:19.460 the first chapter, but I did try. And what I gleaned off of what I heard was this is, this is just a gay 1.00

01:38:27.340 boy. This, he, he was a gay boy who knew he was gay when he was very young and his family knew he

01:38:34.140 was gay and he became a theater kid. And he was starring on like off Broadway type productions and

01:38:40.600 a book of Mormon and like doing okay, not, not doing too poorly. And, um, I don't know how it crossed

01:38:48.060 over, but I don't believe this person ever had true gender dysphoria. I just think he was a gay 1.00

01:38:53.460 man who saw an opportunity to take things next level by playing this new role.

01:39:00.040 So what I think happened was, cause I've had the same theory for years and Dylan Mulvaney did a

01:39:04.940 little video on me and then wrote me to apologize, which I never responded to. But my theory for years

01:39:09.880 has been Dylan tried a million different avenues to have fame and fortune. Dylan wanted to either be a

01:39:15.500 famous actor or a singer or a dancer and it didn't work. So one day Dylan started doing this days of

01:39:20.360 girlhood series where he would pretend to be a woman and say, Oh, I wrote an angry email today.

01:39:25.240 I'm a woman now I'm a girl. And the video started to get traction. I think if the videos hadn't taken

01:39:30.760 off, Dylan wouldn't have transitioned and gone down that rabbit hole. But when the followers poured in

01:39:35.280 and the views and the money and the brand deals, Dylan's like, Oh, well, let me transition because

01:39:39.340 this is now my ticket to fame and stardom. But Dylan Mulvaney is phony. Dylan Mulvaney is an actor.

01:39:44.740 Dylan Mulvaney is inauthentic. And so I don't think that this book or the podcast are going to do too

01:39:49.560 well. Now Dylan went on the view to promote his memoir again, which he, I believe he launched on

01:39:57.580 the international day of women like, okay. Um, so he goes on the view to promote his book and they did 0.90

01:40:05.440 raise with him the Bud Light controversy where Bud Light agreed to put his face on a can and sent him

01:40:12.680 the can as a promotional thing. I mean, to be perfectly honest, this is all on Bud Light.

01:40:17.840 That particular incident is way more a Bud Light problem than it is a Dylan Mulvaney problem,

01:40:22.160 but Bud Light should have foreseen what was going to happen to Dylan as a result of it.

01:40:27.660 And I look, he's out there trying to make money off of his image of women and girls,

01:40:33.180 which is really offensive. So I really have no empathy for what, you know, the, the mix he found

01:40:38.460 himself in, but it was an overwhelming backlash and he was asked about it. Here's how that went

01:40:45.820 and sought 21 on CBS, CBS, CBS about that experience because I felt like it was my fault. And in that

01:40:55.980 me taking this one brand deal was affecting trans people globally. I think extremists and transphobic

01:41:03.520 media needed a poster child, but I would have never taken any deal that I thought could negatively

01:41:10.320 impact me or the community. It resulted in a lot of suicidal ideation and dissociation. I'm still

01:41:18.600 battling with some of that guilt and that shame and that dysphoria that was projected onto me during

01:41:25.940 that time. So, and there was question, a question about whether Dylan needed to be institutionalized

01:41:33.720 and Dylan said, I don't want to be institutionalized because people will just use that against me.

01:41:38.100 But I have to tell you, I really think this is more a revelation Christian of the unwellness of this 1.00

01:41:44.240 person, because there are a lot of people who go through massive social media backlash. A lot of

01:41:48.820 people who don't think about taking their own lives, who don't need to be institutionalized and not

01:41:53.380 just hard, you know, cynical mofos like yours truly. But, you know, a lot of people have backlash. 0.90

01:42:00.840 If the people listening to this show have had it on in their lives, what is a massive scale where

01:42:05.380 people have turned on them and try to cancel them on Facebook because of their politics, what have

01:42:08.620 you? I just know for my audience, this has happened to a lot of people, but Dylan revealing that I think

01:42:12.520 reveals more than he means to. Yeah. I mean, he sounds like a troubled soul and, you know, part of this is

01:42:18.540 unfair on him in that. I think a lot of the culture's frustration with the trans agenda,

01:42:23.840 putting, you know, women against, uh, trans women in sports, forcing kids to change their gender and

01:42:29.440 hiding them from their parents. I think a lot of that kind of just focused on him during that

01:42:34.660 situation. So, uh, yeah. And I, I mean, so I think part of it wasn't fair, but you know, it is

01:42:40.380 on Bud Light situation, but yeah, you know, he promised he'd be doing a lot of oversharing on

01:42:46.760 his podcast and he's oversharing here. And I, I, maybe just needs help. Maybe that's just the end

01:42:51.760 of the day needs help. So like, I've asked myself why, what is it about this particular person that

01:42:57.140 I find so offensive? Because I will say link, I appreciate his sunny affect and how smiley he is

01:43:04.620 and his signature sign off is love ya. And he doesn't seem to be a hateful person, like necessarily

01:43:11.800 like trying to, I mean, like what I'm trying to say is like his attitude is generally upbeat,

01:43:17.920 you know, when you see him in a way that I can see it being appealing to like younger people like,

01:43:22.740 Oh, what he's so nice. But the whole caricature of women that he's doing is deeply offensive,

01:43:29.520 even though he's saying love ya at the end of it. And it's almost like regressive. It's,

01:43:34.480 I feel like he's setting us back decades with this portrayal of what we are. And then you start

01:43:40.020 talking about him giving out tampons and walking around with tampons. It's like,

01:43:45.940 is there nothing about actual womanhood that is sacred to you? You have to make a joke or like a,

01:43:52.500 um, a marketable stick out of every part of what being a woman is actually like.

01:43:59.060 And then my blood starts to boil again around this guy.

01:44:01.600 Well, Dylan Mulvaney reminds me of Ellen DeGeneres because remember Ellen DeGeneres is

01:44:06.320 all about be kind and kindness. That was her motto on her show. And then we found out she was basically

01:44:11.120 running the Stanford prison experiments backstage and was treating people like crap. So I think

01:44:16.760 Dylan Mulvaney is fake. I've said it for years. I think Dylan Mulvaney was like a bitchy, catty,

01:44:21.860 theater queen, gay boy. And it's still a bitchy, catty, theater queen, gay boy, but now in a wig and 1.00

01:44:27.840 a dress like that is the real Dylan Mulvaney. And I have that verified from people I know in

01:44:32.560 my own interactions. I think if you're a bitchy little gay theater boy, then that's still who 1.00

01:44:37.100 you're going to be. You can have all the PR and the agents around you and you can have this narrative

01:44:41.580 that you're putting out now that you're a victim. But I also have this role, especially with my

01:44:45.620 friends and some of my newer friends, I tell them all the time, you can't play smart and dumb at the

01:44:50.640 same time. Okay. I see it with my friends. They try to play smart and dumb. They get themselves into a

01:44:54.940 scandal or into trouble. And then, Oh my God, I'm in the press. I'm in this. I'm in that.

01:44:59.440 Well, if you play with fire, you're going to get burnt. So Dylan Mulvaney wanted fame and fortune

01:45:04.280 and was making millions of dollars. I think Dylan bought a very nice home in Los Angeles.

01:45:08.320 So now you want to be a victim. Your whole career has been handed to you on a platter because you

01:45:13.120 threw on a dress and said you were a woman. You know what I'm saying? So I have no sympathy. 1.00

01:45:16.900 What did you think was going to happen? It's true. He courted public attention and comments

01:45:22.520 on whatever he did. And he crossed a line. Look, there was blowback against him in the early

01:45:28.420 days too, because he was mocking us with those ridiculous quote days of girlhood, but it didn't

01:45:33.400 get, you know, fever pitch until the Bud Light thing, which he wanted. He courted. It's like,

01:45:38.240 you, you have to take the bad with the good. That's what Dylan doesn't understand. It's what

01:45:42.060 Meghan Markle doesn't understand. It's like Michelle Obama. If you're going to put yourself out there,

01:45:47.420 it's not going to all be loving and supportive and wonderful. Like man up. And I mean that to

01:45:55.160 all three of them, man up. I say man up all the time. I'm like, can we still say this man up

01:46:01.600 everybody? But no, I fully, fully agree with you. You can't play smart and dumb. Okay. You can't beg

01:46:07.540 for fame, fortune, and millions of followers, and then cry boo-hoo, marry Lou-hoo, because you got some 0.99

01:46:13.040 negative comments. In the Bud Light situation, I sort of defended Dylan on that one in 2023. I felt

01:46:18.720 like Bud Light strayed from their core competencies. Like that's on them. Dylan was just collecting a

01:46:23.260 check. But then Dylan also is pushing trans and gender ideology on millions of young impressionable

01:46:29.360 people saying, oh, get on hormones, take a pill, take a shot. I had surgery. It's just really not

01:46:35.340 good. It's dangerous to me. Yeah. It's dangerous. It is no different than having a severe anorexic all

01:46:42.180 over the internet being like, try it. Just stop eating or put your fingers down your throat. You

01:46:46.660 can just get rid of that big dinner and you can be skinny like me. Go ahead, Christian.

01:46:50.960 You know, what Link was saying is true. And I think that, you know, Dylan will keep saying,

01:46:55.100 I'm going to counter hate. I want to counter extremism. But he's not really listening to the

01:46:59.540 people who are criticizing him. What about the parents who are aghast that their children are being

01:47:03.700 sort of changed in the school without their knowledge? I mean, maybe he should meet them and

01:47:07.820 understand why there's this real frustration what's going on in the culture right now. I think just

01:47:11.940 saying, you're all extremists for not liking me. It's very glib. I think he should actually dig

01:47:16.460 deeper. If he really does want to promote kindness and empathy, that's where you start.

01:47:20.980 If Dylan came out and said, I don't support men and women's sports. I don't support men and women's

01:47:26.260 bathrooms. I want a secure border. If Dylan went like more Caitlyn to the right, that would be iconic.

01:47:32.100 But Dylan doesn't have it in him. Okay. He's in that Hollywood liberal bubble.

01:47:35.260 Mm-hmm. I know. It's really kind of infuriating. And now, of course, he's like a big star and he's

01:47:41.540 working it for all it's worth. You mentioned he's actually a nasty person behind the scenes.

01:47:47.400 Here is an exchange from his first episode of his show where he's making his father practice

01:47:55.260 speaking on the red carpet. Watch. We're going to the premiere of Will and Harper on Netflix,

01:48:03.040 which is Will Ferrell. And I know you're a fan of his, right? Big, big. Okay, good. And

01:48:08.380 I just, you always say you'd like to go to an event like this. So I'm down. We're going to do it.

01:48:15.640 But my bitter is that I'm already preemptively a little nervous about what you're going to say to

01:48:20.000 people. Oh, I don't blame you. So let's practice this. Okay. Yes. When somebody says,

01:48:25.380 so, uh, Jim, what'd you think of the movie? It was beautiful. It was something that moved me.

01:48:32.560 Oh, good. Excellent. Um, oh, uh, what's it like being Dylan's dad? Oh, I'm the most special dad in

01:48:42.880 the world. Yeah, you are. I don't know guys. I don't, again, I I'm uncomfortable. It didn't seem

01:48:51.420 real to me. There were quite a few comments in the whole exchange. Yeah. I just really think if

01:48:57.660 you're a bitchy and I've seen it in New York, I saw it in NYU. Sorry. Some of my old friends, 1.00

01:49:02.320 if you're like a bitchy, nasty little gay twink and you transition, you're probably still going to be a 1.00

01:49:07.440 bitchy, nasty person now, but you're just a trans woman. I will say the dad wasn't bad looking. The 1.00

01:49:13.700 dad was kind of handsome, little Alec Baldwin-esque. I feel bad for the dad. The dad kind of looks like

01:49:18.280 how Dylan would look in 30 years had he not, you know, transitioned. Well, but the dad is totally 0.63

01:49:22.880 misleading people too. Cause he was asked, what do you do? You know, when your child, you know,

01:49:27.080 comes out as trans. Um, and here's what he said. Well, Dylan and he talked about it. Listen,

01:49:32.340 here's Sot 18. Like you saw that I was a very feminine kid.

01:49:37.440 Yeah. And, and so was it like a super surprise to you when I came out?

01:49:43.180 No, not at all. I, I tell people, I pretty much knew you were gay at five or six. And then you 1.00

01:49:49.520 saying to your mother and I, you know, mom, dad, I, and I think you said it to her and she mentioned

01:49:54.680 it to me that, uh, I think God made a mistake and put a girl in a boy's body. And, uh, you know, 0.94

01:50:01.360 that was, it, you just have to embrace it. You have to understand, you know, there's these things

01:50:07.780 called chromosomes and, you know, these assholes in the world don't quite understand that. And,

01:50:14.200 uh, and like you said to me, Dill, Dill the other day, a while back is dad, what I'm doing right now

01:50:20.380 is just like the gays 20 years ago, 30 years ago. And in 20, 30 years, it's going to be just the same. 1.00

01:50:27.620 Hopefully if we don't get our rights taken away, they won't be taken away. I'll kill somebody

01:50:32.800 before that. So. Oh, really? Okay. Well, if you're right is to, yeah. Participate in girl sports.

01:50:39.940 It's a no, um, but that's really interesting, right? Cause he's like, you just, you just embrace

01:50:45.920 it. And by the way, you guys know better than anybody, a five or six year old boy saying,

01:50:52.140 I think God made a mistake and put a girl in a boy's body. The overwhelming odds are he 0.96

01:50:57.500 talking about his sexuality. He's realizing that in this society, you know, boys are supposed to

01:51:04.420 date girls. Boys are supposed to be attracted to girls. They're supposed to want to kiss girls.

01:51:08.220 And this little boy was clearly realizing that wasn't for him. That's not a gender flag. It's

01:51:13.940 just ridiculous. Now you have these two people out there very publicly saying embrace trans ideology 0.74

01:51:20.260 at age five. And that message is everywhere on the hard left. Absolutely. It's also not what kids

01:51:26.660 say. It doesn't sound like what something you let a little boy or a little girl says. It seems a

01:51:30.240 little bit like they've heard it elsewhere potentially, but you know, it's funny. We

01:51:33.620 just played the Elaria clips when she was berating Alec kind of sound a little bit like Dylan berating

01:51:40.220 her, his, her, his dad. I mean, like, you know, say the right thing. Don't do, don't, don't go off

01:51:44.760 script. You know, it's like, he feels like he's like a hostage, you know, like, yeah. Don't put

01:51:49.760 him out there. Is that loving? Yeah. Then don't put him out there. I mean, clearly there's a,

01:51:53.600 there's a reason Dylan wound up the way Dylan is, but the whole thing is very sussed to

01:51:57.560 me. And the issue of girl sports is in the news every day. He doesn't speak out the way

01:52:02.360 Caitlin does about it at all. And there was just another one today. Um, hold on a second.

01:52:07.520 It's in Portland, in Portland, Oregon, where this week a male, an 11th grader won gold in

01:52:14.860 the girl's 400 meter varsity race. His name is Aiden Ada Gallagher. Watch this guy crush.

01:52:21.000 Look at this. He's about two miles ahead of the girls who are behind him. They have 0.68

01:52:29.760 clearly zero shot of catching up with him. And he's super thrilled that his post pubescent

01:52:37.840 male body beat the girls who are miles behind him. This is at the McDaniel high school. He set

01:52:46.480 a season record guys after finishing, uh, over seven seconds ahead of his female competitors.

01:52:52.780 He was booed as he did it by the way. Um, in, in the 200 meter and the 400 meter,

01:52:58.800 both of those, he finished second place. If he'd been running in the men's meet,

01:53:02.820 he would have finished 61st out of 65 and 46th out of 58th respectively. Uh, he has not done hormone

01:53:11.180 replacement therapy at least as of April, 2024. So he's got all of his male advantage. And that's

01:53:16.400 why even in Portland, Oregon, they're booing, which, I mean, I take some comfort from the fact

01:53:22.100 that they're booing there. Christian, uh, Megan, this never happens when it does. It's stunning and

01:53:27.080 brave. So, you know, uh, you mentioned the booing in Portland. That's, that is not insignificant.

01:53:33.400 It's a sign. It's a cultural marker, uh, because the people in the crowd felt comfortable booing

01:53:40.200 that knowing that there could be significant backlash within their community. So that's,

01:53:44.020 that's how the cultural shift is going on right now. And, uh, yeah, I mean, how many stories are

01:53:49.720 there where trans men are, are crushing against biological men? Does that, does that ever happen?

01:53:54.880 Has it ever happened? I don't know. Not once, literally not once.

01:53:57.840 Um, so we mentioned, we mentioned Megan Markle earlier and we do have Megan Markle news. I know

01:54:05.840 you're excited, Link. Um, Megan Markle, as you know, she's launched her little show, whatever,

01:54:13.120 ever after and whatever it's called. I don't remember what it's called. And, uh, as ever,

01:54:18.020 as ever. Okay. Whatever, whatever. That's what I'm calling her show. And, um, it's terrible. It's

01:54:23.820 gotten totally panned. And then she announced, Oh, I've gotten the second season, which is a

01:54:27.820 lie. What that, and they've already shot all the episodes. So as you guys know, what that means

01:54:31.900 is they shot all these episodes at the same time and intended on two seasons from the start,

01:54:37.580 but decided to hold the announcement of season two until she started to get panned on season one 1.00

01:54:42.020 to try to change the narrative to this is a success because of this, if she were, this were true

01:54:46.620 renewal, she would not have shot all the episodes yet. It's like, that's, they're not saying we're

01:54:51.740 going to pour more money into this. They already shot everything anyway. So there's some podcaster

01:54:56.840 out there who said something about Megan. Like I'm worried you're going to get backlash the way

01:55:00.880 Blake Lively has gotten backlash. And I guess, uh, Megan decided to write this girl a note and the

01:55:08.280 podcaster, whose name is Amanda Hirsch posted the note that Megan Markle sent her. And you guys are

01:55:15.880 not going to believe, look at this, look at the stationary. Can you see that? It's got her weird

01:55:24.300 calligraphy. I'm fancy writing. Look at the signature at the top, the little imprint, the emblem. It's a

01:55:32.600 huge M. Can you see what's on top of it? Link, a crown, a tiara. It's a crown. Oh my God.

01:55:40.480 So relatable. Oh, this also feels a little bit like a threat. I don't know the full subtext,

01:55:51.220 but this also speaks to what I was saying last time, which is that Megan Markle, she must have

01:55:55.320 staff, nannies and help. No mom who's raising her kids has time to make rainbow fruit platters and 1.00

01:56:02.200 gourmet donuts and write letters to little influencers. You know what I'm saying? Nobody has

01:56:06.480 time for that. And with the crown on there, she is clinging to that Sussex title. I have spent more

01:56:12.300 time in Sussex than Megan Markle, but somehow she's the Duchess of Sussex and she's going to cling

01:56:16.760 to it until the end of time. I went to Sussex. The beaches were all rocks. I didn't love it,

01:56:21.560 but I did spend more time there than Megan Markle. I don't know what's going on with her. 1.00

01:56:25.640 So last question for you on the, on this link, I saw you did a post the other day about how Michelle

01:56:30.000 Obama's lame podcast and Megan Markle's lame show. And there was one other that you said,

01:56:35.960 they're all tanking and for good reasons. So why? And who's the third?

01:56:41.460 Okay. So people always say bad things come in threes. And I guess that's true because Gavin

01:56:45.860 Newsom, Michelle Obama, and Megan Markle all dropped podcasts because this is what America needs. We need

01:56:52.060 more rich liberal elites sitting around their mansions, whining about their problems into a

01:56:57.020 microphone. So that's what we need more of. What a shock that the people are not tuning in.

01:57:02.080 But you're so right though, Chris, it's so relatable, her little crown and her calligraphied

01:57:06.920 note to this woman. Okay. Which is obviously just an attempt at PR guys, a pleasure. Thank you so

01:57:12.420 much. And we're going to be back tomorrow with a special look at the latest on the Brian Kohlberger

01:57:18.120 case in Idaho with Howard Bloom, who's been covering this extensively. As you know, we will see you then.

01:57:23.900 Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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The Megyn Kelly Show - March 20, 2025

Petitos Speak Out About New Doc, and ＂Snow White＂ Controversies and Baldwins Red Carpet Drama, with Link Lauren and Christian Toto ｜ Ep. 1031

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