The Megyn Kelly Show - Petty Trump Prosecution, Presidential Immunity Question, and Biden's Pause Gaffe, with Piers Morgan, Harmeet Dhillon, Sara Gonzales and Josh Hammer ｜ Ep. 776

00:00:00.540 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:11.920 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. We have a packed show for you today

00:00:16.220 as several cases related to former President Donald Trump's political and legal future

00:00:20.820 are unfolding right now simultaneously. In New York City, the so-called hush money trial is

00:00:26.880 back underway after the weekly Wednesday break and peckers back up being questioned by the

00:00:33.060 prosecution. The New York Times is Maggie Haberman tweeting out, you know, moment by moment updates.

00:00:38.680 She thinks he's done. She thinks they've really proven the case. I'll tell you why I completely

00:00:43.440 disagree. It's not that this jury is not going to convict him, but they have not proven what they

00:00:48.720 must prove in order to state a claim. And so while this whole thing may just be let's run to get a

00:00:56.240 criminal conviction before November, it's looking more and more to me like there is

00:01:01.340 zero chance this case will be upheld on appeal. No one in this courtroom seems to understand

00:01:07.240 campaign finance law. And that's a dereliction. We'll get into it when Harmeet Dillon joins us in

00:01:13.400 just a bit. Meantime, down in D.C., we'll also speak to her about this. The question of whether the

00:01:20.240 president is immune from cases like these just has criminal immunity from potentially the New York

00:01:28.080 case, but certainly they're arguing in the federal cases is being argued before the U.S. Supreme Court.

00:01:33.220 This is the case that Mike and Dave have been arguing over and Dave did not think the high

00:01:37.180 court would take it. He thought the U.S. Court of Appeals at the lower level had done such a thorough

00:01:42.760 job that the Supreme Court would say, you know, we don't want any part of this. That court ruled

00:01:46.940 that somebody like Trump would not have immunity for these claims or these behaviors. And then the

00:01:52.620 U.S. Supreme Court said, we'll take it. Actually, we want to weigh in ourselves. So that's happening

00:01:57.300 right now. I've been listening to the arguments all morning. They're pretty dense. It's an uphill

00:02:01.740 battle for sure for Team Trump. But I got to say, my quick take on it is he's kind of winning there

00:02:10.540 too. And I'll tell you why. His lawyer did a switch this morning. His lawyer went from arguing

00:02:17.900 he's immune, period, from all crimes for anything he did while in office to, well, he's immune for

00:02:28.120 some things and he wouldn't be immune for other things like acts outside of his official capacity.

00:02:33.200 And while you may think, aha, see, now they can, he's admitting they can sue him. They can, they can

00:02:38.280 get him for crimes done, even though he was president that were done, not in an official

00:02:42.900 capacity. Don't forget the whole game for Team Trump is delay. It's much better for Team Trump to

00:02:49.220 get a ruling saying this has to go back to the district court for a long hearing on which acts

00:02:54.000 were official and which acts weren't than it is for them to just to issue a blanket ruling saying we

00:02:59.320 disagree that the president has blanket immunity for all crimes while in office.

00:03:03.200 So it's actually kind of clever. And, uh, it works beautifully. If Trump wins

00:03:09.260 the presidential election, if he doesn't, it's not good for Trump. He's going to get tried on those

00:03:17.500 two federal cases and the concession will come back to haunt him. If that doesn't make clear,

00:03:22.820 if that's not clear, stand by, cause I'll get into that with Harmeet as well. Okay. But we begin

00:03:27.060 today with our friend Piers Morgan, host of Piers Morgan uncensored, fresh off his showdown

00:03:32.840 with crackhead Barney, the person who confronted Alec Baldwin in that, in that restaurant.

00:03:41.800 Piers, welcome back to the show.

00:03:43.400 Lovely to see you, Megan. I can't say that nothing I ever thought would make you feel

00:03:47.340 sorry for Alec Baldwin, but crackhead did.

00:03:50.060 Same, same. And once I actually got a look at crackhead, even more so it's, this is what I love

00:03:59.140 about you, Piers. You saw it and you were like, let's book that person to come on the show. I was

00:04:03.380 like, Oh my God. But it was, yeah, it was completely obviously insane, although she's not actually insane. 0.73

00:04:11.900 It's all very performative. And I've seen clips of her where she's completely normal, but she decided

00:04:17.920 to do this huge performance thing with me. And I had my producers in my ear going, I think we should

00:04:23.280 just cut this off, cut this off. And I was like, you know what? Actually, no, because in a way it was

00:04:27.880 quite illuminating because this is somebody who claims to be representing the pro-Palestinian side of

00:04:34.220 the argument on this war. She's somebody who thinks it's perfectly okay to go and harass people like 1.00

00:04:40.200 Alec Baldwin in cafes, which I think is outrageous. And yet when she came on, she wasn't able to take

00:04:46.900 any of this seriously or trying to articulate any arguments. She just wanted to be an attention seeker

00:04:52.720 and a bit ridiculous and make herself a laughingstock, which is fine, but actually quite illuminating about 0.98

00:04:58.680 what these people, a lot of them, not all by any means, but a lot of them are like this. They're just 0.92

00:05:04.160 in it to get attention and to be performative and to make people look and listen to them.

00:05:10.660 Okay. So just in case I wasn't necessarily going to lead with crackhead, but why not?

00:05:16.120 For those of you who missed it, let's show a little bit of crackheads. This is what she calls 1.00

00:05:20.620 herself, her confrontation of Alec Baldwin in the restaurant that weirdly united the world

00:05:24.620 behind Alec Baldwin. Here it is.

00:05:27.580 Alec, can you please stay free Palestine one time? Why did you kill that lady? You killed that lady 0.98

00:05:33.900 you got no jail time? No jail time, Alec. No jail time, Alec. You're putting innocent 0.75

00:05:41.040 people in jail, Alec Baldwin. Free Palestine, Alec, just one time. And I'll leave you alone.

00:05:47.680 I'll leave you alone. I swear. Just say free Palestine one time. One time. One time. 1.00

00:05:54.500 One time, Alec. You know he's a criminal. You know he's a fucking criminal. Come on, Alec. Just say 0.96

00:06:02.000 free Palestine one time. One time. Just one time, please. And I'll leave you alone. Free Palestine. 0.98

00:06:10.580 Fuck Israel. Fuck Zionism. Please say it. One time. 1.00

00:06:16.220 He smacks the camera out of her hand. So she came on standby peers. I just want to show the

00:06:26.400 audience a little bit of what happened when she sat down with you. Now she was covered from what

00:06:30.880 I've seen in like white body paint. She's a black woman, but she covers herself in white body paint 1.00

00:06:35.800 and white face paint. Yeah. Okay. Just set it up for the audience. So then the listening audience knows 0.98

00:06:43.040 what we're looking at here. She was wearing outrageous garb. I wasn't entirely sure exactly 0.94

00:06:50.980 what she was wearing, other than not very much. She painted herself white. She was, as you'll see,

00:06:56.040 I mean, if you watch the whole thing, you'll see she was blatantly racist, by the way, in all this.

00:07:00.540 But this is a little taster that you've got of what went down. Yeah. As I understand, and I saw the clip,

00:07:06.300 but she's got rather large breasts and they're painted white. And I think they have like little 1.00

00:07:13.160 band-aids on the end. Okay. Anyway, here's a clip. Well, welcome to Uncensored.

00:07:19.740 Hey, Pierce. I've been waiting for you, Pierce fucking Morgan. I wore my diaper today for you, Pierce. Do you like it? 0.98

00:07:29.420 Uh, not particularly, no. Can I, can I take you back, if I may, uh, to what you did to Alec Baldwin?

00:07:35.280 Can you explain why you did it? What did I do to Alec Baldwin? Pierce, do you see the damage

00:07:40.360 that Alec did to me? Do you see the damage? Look at my arm. Look at my arm, Pierce.

00:07:46.080 Got a sling on. Fucking Morgan. You're asking too many questions. 1.00

00:07:49.800 Just for the record, my name is actually just Pierce Morgan. What's wrong with saying free Palestine?

00:07:53.460 Pierce, can you say free Palestine for me? Pierce, can you say free Palestine for me?

00:07:59.480 If you stop shouting, yeah. I want you to say it. Yes, I'm happy to say. Okay. I'm not going to shout.

00:08:05.140 If you just, Mr. Pierce Morgan, please say free Palestine. If you just keep quiet, I can answer your question. 0.98

00:08:12.100 And so it went on. So she's normal, you're telling me, when she's not dressed like this?

00:08:17.200 Yeah, I think it's, it's almost 90% performative. I mean, she's not completely normal. Obviously,

00:08:23.360 normal people don't do that kind of thing. But I did think it was quite enlightening about the kind

00:08:28.420 of mentality of people like this who think it's fine to harass public figures. We saw somebody do

00:08:33.500 it to the mayor of New York on a plane. And I think that the point of keeping her on air for a little

00:08:39.940 bit was just to say, look, I'm prepared to have a serious conversation with you. You are referencing

00:08:46.160 Palestine throughout your encounter with Ali Baldwin. Okay, let's talk about Palestine. Let's

00:08:51.140 talk about whether you think what you're doing is actually remotely helpful to the pro-Palestinian

00:08:55.800 cause, because of course, it isn't. It makes the whole thing look like a charade. It's not a charade.

00:09:00.300 Real people are dying in large numbers. So, you know, I just thought it was worth keeping her on long 1.00

00:09:04.700 enough for her to basically hang herself in terms of the way she was coming over. 1.00

00:09:09.520 Well, she's the most extreme version we've seen, but she's not the only 0.99

00:09:12.840 dumb dumb who's shooting off about Palestine knowing absolutely nothing about it. You know, 1.00

00:09:18.040 we've seen that just yesterday we ran a soundbite of somebody who was like,

00:09:21.740 why are we here again? I wish I were better educated, right? So why are you doing an encampment

00:09:27.820 then on the campus of NYU? Just one quick note. My team tells me that Crackhead Barney, that's her 1.00

00:09:33.540 name. Crackhead Barney tweeted out, I think Megyn Kelly has a crush on me, but you're not my type. 0.99

00:09:38.600 I like my white girls dirty and trashy like some other two people. I had to tell you, Crackhead, 1.00

00:09:44.340 I like my Barneys purple and prehistoric, so it's fine. It's not going to work out between the two of us.

00:09:52.720 Yeah, have fun. That's the important thing on the show.

00:09:56.180 Yeah, listen, I think Michael, my show uncensored for a reason. We don't censor people. And she was

00:10:00.960 clearly in the news. Everyone was looking at that clip that went viral of her and Alec Baldwin.

00:10:05.340 And I wanted to give her a chance to see if she wanted to explain herself or explain the wider

00:10:09.180 issues and concerns she had about Palestine. But it was nothing to do with any of that. She just

00:10:13.860 basically wanted to show off and be outrageous and try and give me a new name, which I was very keen

00:10:18.780 to resist having. I kind of like it, I have to say. I think you should think about going with it.

00:10:25.020 It depends on how you say that middle word. It does.

00:10:28.140 Okay, so let's talk about the protests, because you guys are having them over there,

00:10:34.180 I think even worse than we're having them over here on this Israel thing. It's amazing to watch 1.00

00:10:39.120 what's happening in the UK. And often the UK is a little harbinger of things to come here in America.

00:10:44.920 Here's a little montage that we put together for the audience of. They've seen what's happening

00:10:47.980 here. But this is some of the anti-Israel protests happening in London, Sat-3.

00:10:52.880 We appreciate it.

00:11:22.880 Hmm. This is the Muslim population of the UK is growing and the support within that population for Hamas is strong. 1.00

00:11:31.260 Nearly 50 percent, according to the latest poll of UK Muslim support Hamas.

00:11:35.840 And the majority of those do not believe in the rape or murder allegations against Hamas.

00:11:44.380 Notwithstanding Hamas taking the time to videotape them and put them all over the Internet. 0.81

00:11:48.520 These these Muslims say, no, it didn't happen. So what do you make of it? 0.99

00:11:52.880 Well, we have an interesting situation in the UK where I think most people here support the right to protest peacefully.

00:12:01.380 No one's got any problem with that. And it must be said that the majority of people doing these protest marches and they're very big marches every week are doing so peacefully.

00:12:09.680 But there is a significant number of them who are using pro Hamas banners or chanting about Hamas or chanting about Intifada or chanting from the river to the sea.

00:12:20.620 Now, that is open support of a terrorist organization. Hamas is a terror group prescribed by the UK government.

00:12:26.760 So when you do that, you're actually breaking the law.

00:12:28.840 And one of the big arguments that's been going on in this country is about the police not doing more to root out the people who are openly supporting a terror group.

00:12:37.020 I mean, I had an extraordinary interview, Megan, on my show where there was a man who'd been an NHS, National Health Service doctor,

00:12:43.840 for 20 years running a surgery. And on the quiet, he was also running an organization that has also just been prescribed in this country as a terror group.

00:12:56.420 And so he was this extremist spewing all sorts of extremist stuff in his private life under a different name and then calmly going into a national health surgery every day and treating patients, some of whom would have been Jewish.

00:13:13.320 Now, the interesting part of this, I think, is that we have an unusually high Muslim population here compared to percentage-wise America.

00:13:21.740 We have almost as many Muslims in the UK as you do in America, nearly 5 million.

00:13:26.320 But we only have about 200,000 Jewish people here.

00:13:30.180 So it's been very intimidating for Jewish people, particularly in London, where these marches are going on.

00:13:34.760 We had a guy at the weekend who released footage of himself being stopped by the police and told he was looking openly Jewish,

00:13:43.240 which was an extraordinary thing for a policeman to say, and the police apologized for it.

00:13:47.720 But that gives you some indication that if you even look Jewish, then the Metropolitan Police, the big London police, 0.58

00:13:55.580 they are telling you not to go out anywhere near these marches in a capital city of a supposedly free and open democracy.

00:14:03.440 So I think that's what's causing a lot of tension.

00:14:06.400 And you're seeing a lot of the similar stuff now on the campuses, at colleges in America, which is, if you're Jewish, you know, I'm an Irish Catholic.

00:14:14.080 So I can only equate some of this to what I was like being an Irish Catholic actually in London when the IOA were bombing the British mainland.

00:14:23.680 And that was an uncomfortable time for Irish Catholics, but nothing quite on this scale.

00:14:28.000 And I think that what is going on for Jewish people in New York and Chicago and the other cities where this is happening is very intimidating.

00:14:36.900 And if you're now being told to stay at home and not go into your college where you paid huge sums of money to be educated because of your ethnicity,

00:14:46.380 because you're Jewish, then that is completely outrageous. 1.00

00:14:49.040 Yeah, that that can't happen. I mean, here we're you know, we love protests.

00:14:54.560 We love free speech, as you know, and we're trying to figure out where to draw the line because we've never seen anything quite like this in recent history where people are openly screaming death to the Jews on college campuses in America.

00:15:06.360 And that's a bridge too far. Right. But some of the other slogans would be permitted.

00:15:12.060 But we do have, let's say, today, Governor Greg Abbott down in Texas saying arrest them all.

00:15:16.440 Everybody's getting arrested. That's not OK, really. That's not OK.

00:15:20.100 They're allowed to say we're allowed to say hateful things here. You know, our Constitution does protect hate speech.

00:15:24.600 So it's I think everybody's trying to figure out where the line is because it's gotten so extreme.

00:15:29.100 And when I look at what happens in the UK, it looks to me to be extreme to that thing with the Jewish guy was incredibly disturbing. 0.99

00:15:35.380 The fact that the cops were saying just being Jewish with the yarmulke on is provocative.

00:15:41.160 He himself is provocative. So I wonder about the multicultural aspect of this, Pierce.

00:15:46.760 Is it working like can you have an open and free society when you have all of these immigrants come in and change the fabric of the country who have no no inclination and no aspiration of assimilating into British culture? 1.00

00:16:02.020 Well, look, I think the honest answer to that is rather like America.

00:16:06.900 We have welcomed millions of people to this country, millions of migrants, many of whom have enriched our society.

00:16:15.460 That has to be said off the top. America was built on migrants coming in. 1.00

00:16:20.100 The UK has millions of people who've made their homes and who've contributed.

00:16:23.220 So let me just say that at the start. But I do think that we're entering into a very strange period where the language around this is being deliberately censored or depicted as something else.

00:16:35.860 And I'll tell you why I say that. You may have seen that we have a problem with the boats that the British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak is determined to stop the boats.

00:16:42.760 What are the boats? Well, these are dinghies which criminal gangs are using to bring dozens of people at a time on small little dinghy boats across the Channel from France and dropping them on the southern coast of England.

00:16:57.380 And the total numbers involved are about 40,000 people a year.

00:17:01.340 Very sadly, only this week five more people died.

00:17:04.040 These are women, children, desperate for a new life. 1.00

00:17:07.200 And I completely understand their desire to do that.

00:17:08.920 But they're trying to come in illegally. And many of them are dying across the Channel.

00:17:13.320 It's an awful tragedy.

00:17:14.740 But it's 40,000 people a year are coming in.

00:17:17.780 The much bigger issue in the UK, which people don't want to talk about because they instantly get branded racist, which I think is ridiculous, is that last year we had a net legal migration of nearly 700,000 people come into the UK.

00:17:32.780 Now, we're a country of just over 60 million.

00:17:34.620 This is nearly one-sixtieth of our entire population coming in in one year from all over the world.

00:17:42.540 The UK is a very desirable place to live, as is the United States.

00:17:45.740 Well, we simply cannot support that kind of level of legal migration, never mind what's happening on the Channel.

00:17:53.380 But it's just unsustainable to say that nearly a million people are coming year after year after year into the UK when we already have all our services, education, health, infrastructure, and so on, are already creaking at the seams. 0.60

00:18:08.800 This is going to put more and more pressure.

00:18:11.040 And in reference to your point about the cultural issues, it creates a lot of tension, obviously, between people who are here and have made their lives here and born here and so on, who suddenly see the whole fabric of their town or their village or whatever it may be completely changing.

00:18:29.740 And they know that the government hasn't provided enough infrastructure to sustain this level of migration.

00:18:35.960 So the far bigger problem for me here is not actually illegal migration.

00:18:41.340 It's the level of legal migration.

00:18:43.860 And anyone who tries to comment about this gets branded racist or bigoted and so on.

00:18:49.400 I'm neither of those things.

00:18:50.820 I'm just somebody who recognizes this is going to be a massive problem.

00:18:54.940 I mean, for me, it is definitely cultural as well.

00:18:58.100 I do not want this culture from, you know, the places that a lot of these migrants are coming, coming to America. 1.00

00:19:06.100 I don't want it coming and taking over American culture. 0.98

00:19:08.320 I don't want to have to worry about me or my daughter walking down the street in a tank top and getting harassed by somebody who's really much more in favor of the Sharia and wants to, you know, women only to be escorted as they walk.

00:19:21.820 I don't want any of their views on women, frankly, to be coming to the UK, which I love, or to America.

00:19:26.740 But it is that there was a poll from the about the UK Muslims on their support for Sharia.

00:19:33.520 And it was disturbing.

00:19:34.640 A new poll found almost a third of British Muslims think it would be desirable to implement Sharia law within the next two decades.

00:19:42.420 That means, you know, your kids and mine who will be facing this like I don't this is where I always revert to then stay stay where you are.

00:19:51.780 Stay in your own country if that's what you want, where it's like there's no way of stopping it without enforcing immigration laws. 1.00

00:19:59.260 And then without British people having these frank discussions and not caring whether someone calls them a bigot. 0.65

00:20:05.660 Yeah.

00:20:06.200 And I think, you know, a reference again to the doctor that was leading Miss Double Life running a now terror group.

00:20:12.820 You know, he was somebody that clearly did want Sharia law to come into the UK. 0.61

00:20:16.420 And I have to point out to him, that's not our law here.

00:20:18.520 Sorry.

00:20:19.240 But we're not going to have Sharia law in this country.

00:20:21.340 But, you know, again, it comes back to if you allow millions and millions of people from other cultures to come in and enough of them who come in want to have Sharia law, eventually, you know, you could see a potential danger that this begins to force itself onto a national agenda and could potentially get embraced. 0.71

00:20:41.660 So I think that's what's concerning people.

00:20:43.920 You know, we don't want Sharia law in this country. 1.00

00:20:45.680 You don't want it in America.

00:20:46.700 And the sad thing for me is America has, I think it's about five million Muslims, like I said, most of whom have been assimilated very well into American society.

00:20:55.560 Oh, yeah.

00:20:55.960 You know, the vast majority of them.

00:20:57.620 One of my dearest friends is Muslim.

00:20:57.920 She's not anything like this.

00:20:59.180 She's raising four beautiful Muslim children.

00:21:01.660 Like, they're completely peace-loving in every single way, of course.

00:21:04.520 But that's different from what we're seeing with these pro-Sharia, Hamas did not commit any murders.

00:21:09.740 We're talking about extremists.

00:21:10.680 Yeah, we're talking about extremists and people who will happily publicly embrace a terrorist organization who have recently committed one of the most heinous terror acts in modern history.

00:21:20.740 That's what we're talking about. 0.97

00:21:21.940 And the people who I think are very stupid people on these pro-Palestinian marches in the campuses, for example, when you see young students, they clearly don't know a lot of them what they're doing or why they're doing it. 0.98

00:21:34.460 They don't know their history of the conflict in the Middle East between Palestine and between Israel. 0.99

00:21:42.260 They don't know enough about the history to make a considered view about this.

00:21:45.480 They've just been probably told by TikTok that they should be supporting one side over the other.

00:21:51.640 And that's what's going on.

00:21:53.120 So a lot of them are just, you know, I would love to just give them a basic history quiz about the 75-year conflict between Israel and the Palestinians and see if actually what they knew and see whether they can make a considered view about what side they felt they should be supporting then.

00:22:09.840 Because I've got great sympathy on both sides in this war.

00:22:12.880 You know, I've always had historic sympathy for the Palestinians and the plight of so many people living there.

00:22:17.720 It's an awful way that many of them have had to lead their lives.

00:22:20.420 And, of course, half the people in Gaza were under 18.

00:22:23.260 You know, this is a very, very young population who have – it's not their fault about what's going to be going on with Hamas.

00:22:29.680 But Hamas has proven itself to be a despicable terror group.

00:22:33.400 And it is unsustainable that you allow a terror group like Hamas to continue having any kind of leadership or authority in Gaza.

00:22:40.680 So, you know, these things have to be confronted.

00:22:43.420 The question then becomes, well, what's the best way to confront it?

00:22:46.220 There are legitimate concerns about the way Israel is going about this.

00:22:49.800 But I do always say to people on the Palestinian side, how else should Israel have responded?

00:22:55.740 You know, when you have an existential threat to your existence.

00:22:58.100 I mean, I know.

00:22:58.600 I mean, look at what happened in America after 9-11.

00:23:01.120 We responded with massive force, and the civilian-to-military kill rate was a lot higher and less favorable to us than what Israel is doing right now.

00:23:10.980 I want to move on because I don't have you for too long today.

00:23:13.380 I've got to ask you about Trump.

00:23:14.500 He's facing four criminal trials.

00:23:16.340 He's got a case being argued before the U.S. Supreme Court right now.

00:23:19.020 He's got the head of the National Enquirer, former David Pecker, on the witness stand right now talking about this deal they struck to cover up for Trump and try to bury bad stories and promote good stories and hit his adversaries with negative stories.

00:23:33.360 First, let me just ask you, because you've spent your life in news.

00:23:37.740 I mean, you've been writing, you know, for newspapers long before most people even knew you on cam.

00:23:42.800 So what do you make of this deal, and would it ever have struck you that this was illegal, this kind of thing is illegal to accept money from somebody or give money to somebody in order to quash their story or kill it, as the saying goes?

00:23:58.520 No, look, I ran two of the biggest tabloid newspapers in Britain for 10 years, and this kind of deal in different ways goes on everywhere with all newspapers around the world.

00:24:09.480 You know, if you have a massive star and there's a damaging story about them and they want to suppress that story, then sometimes they'll give you a better one about themselves to kill off the other one.

00:24:19.920 Or, you know, there's always some kind of deal that could be done.

00:24:23.180 When I just realized this would be the first case, Megan, that was going to come up with before, because some of them are clearly, I think, more serious and more legitimate and better cases to answer for Trump than others.

00:24:34.240 But this one seems so petty.

00:24:36.580 It seems so trivial.

00:24:37.820 You know, ultimately, it's about whether or not Donald Trump had a one-night stand with a porn star 18 years ago in a Beverly Hills hotel.

00:24:45.460 A, I don't care.

00:24:46.560 I've interviewed Stormy Daniels.

00:24:48.120 You know, she's very plausible when you interview her.

00:24:50.720 But I wasn't in the room.

00:24:52.040 I don't know what really happened.

00:24:53.660 Donald Trump denies it.

00:24:54.880 But I...

00:24:55.480 Yeah, exactly.

00:24:57.960 But either way, either way, I don't care.

00:25:01.220 And I don't think most people care very much.

00:25:03.500 And I think that what's happened here, you've got a clearly politically motivated prosecutor who's a paid-up Democrat.

00:25:09.780 You've got a judge who's obviously a Democrat as well.

00:25:12.580 And they've decided to throw the kitchen sink at Trump by jacking up what should be just a state misdemeanor at worst into some sort of huge seismic federal crime.

00:25:22.940 Well, all the polling I've seen on this shows that most Americans aren't buying this.

00:25:27.160 They don't think that Trump committed a crime here.

00:25:29.360 And they think it's a massive overreach by the prosecution.

00:25:31.780 So I think I heard you at the start, and I totally agree with you.

00:25:35.280 Whatever happens here, you know, A, Trump may get acquitted. 0.95

00:25:39.740 Because there might be one member of that jury that just goes, you know what, this is ridiculous.

00:25:44.800 And demeaning, frankly, for America to drag a former president of the United States, one of the 40, 45 people who held this incredibly high office, 0.94

00:25:53.780 to drag them through such an unedifying and petty courtroom fiasco for weeks on end,

00:26:00.640 when he should be legitimately allowed to campaign as the nominee for the Republican Party for the next elections.

00:26:07.300 I think there's, for all sorts of reasons, this seems to me a ridiculous start to this legal battle against Trump.

00:26:14.660 But whether he wins or loses, you see, I think he either wins, because one juror has common sense,

00:26:19.980 or he loses, but actually gets martyred in the process.

00:26:24.020 So spectacularly, I watched the scenes this morning, going into court,

00:26:27.260 with people chanting Trump, Trump, Trump, and four more years, four more years.

00:26:30.560 I don't think this is hurting him.

00:26:32.280 I think it actually, over time, will help him.

00:26:34.640 I think it's martyring Trump.

00:26:36.240 And I think the most right-minded Americans, who are not partisan on the left,

00:26:41.080 but are sort of independent or moderates, will look at this and go, is this really fair?

00:26:45.820 And I always say, I mean, I remember when Bill Clinton was president.

00:26:48.680 And I remember him paying Paula Jones $850,000, whatever it was, to pay her off to settle a harassment case. 0.66

00:26:57.100 And I remember him having sex with an intern, Monica Lewinsky, in the Oval Office.

00:27:02.000 Both of those things are a lot worse, in my estimation, given he was a serving president

00:27:06.660 when the Monica Lewinsky thing happened, and given he did the payment when he was a serving president

00:27:12.400 to Paula Jones, than anything Trump did in the run-up to an election to basically get rid of a bit of a messy story

00:27:19.180 that probably his biggest concern was not the damage it might do to the election.

00:27:23.780 I think people factored in Trump and womanizing. 1.00

00:27:27.020 It was probably he didn't want Melania to know all about this.

00:27:30.560 But you know what, Piers, we've been covering this on this show.

00:27:32.740 This is not well enough understood, including even by us.

00:27:35.880 I have legal panels on all the time.

00:27:37.720 And we're all lawyers, and we talk about this, the relevant standard is not what was in Trump's head

00:27:43.260 or what his subjective reasons for the payment were.

00:27:47.420 It's the objective, objectively looking at the money.

00:27:51.420 Could said money, in this case a hush money payment, have ever been used for anything other

00:27:58.520 than to advance a campaign?

00:28:01.240 Is this kind of payment?

00:28:02.980 You look at the nature of the payment.

00:28:05.880 So if it is payment for, I don't know, a podium at a debate, a lectern at a debate stage.

00:28:13.020 Okay, yes, that is something you might only ever buy for a debate, right?

00:28:17.760 Like for a presidential run.

00:28:19.020 But a hush money, everybody pays that.

00:28:21.120 You know, as somebody who was in the tabloids for years, tons of people pay hush money payments.

00:28:25.160 So that's the standard.

00:28:26.520 It's not even what was in Trump's head or whether they get an admission that this was

00:28:30.780 to help his electoral chances.

00:28:33.080 It's irrelevant.

00:28:34.400 Okay, at last, I've got to ask you about this.

00:28:36.000 Speaking of martyrs and people who have been really unfairly put upon, let me ask you about Meghan Markle.

00:28:44.220 One of the great martyrs of our time.

00:28:47.180 Poor thing.

00:28:49.160 Her castle was so small.

00:28:50.640 She is apparently getting back into the podcast lane thanks to this far-left pro-women Lemonada company.

00:28:59.660 Richard Eden over in the Daily Mail, your old hot, has a piece today saying they're struggling to get this thing out of the starting blocks.

00:29:06.960 No podcasts are even expected any time this year and not until 2025.

00:29:10.980 And the podcast, by the way, is going to celebrate the joys of cooking, or at least something she's doing.

00:29:17.620 Her Netflix show, I guess, is going to celebrate the joys of cooking, gardening, entertaining, and friendship, Piers.

00:29:24.960 She's going to be teaching us how to be a good friend.

00:29:28.840 I can't wait to find out from Meghan Markle what that's like.

00:29:32.860 Well, as one of the many friends that she cut off, spectacularly, the moment she got a bit of royal action, along with her entire family, of course, on both sides, apart from her mother.

00:29:44.280 I don't think Meghan Markle is in any position to be lecturing anybody about friendship.

00:29:48.920 I mean, it always made me laugh, but the Archer World website, their charitable foundation, says it's dedicated to compassion.

00:29:56.280 I mean, it's hard to imagine two people who've been less compassionate in the last few years to the ones around, their loved ones, than these two, right?

00:30:05.860 This is two people who trashed all their family, you know, whether it was her father or whether it was Harry's entire family at a time when Prince Philip and the Queen were both dying.

00:30:16.480 There they were on national television, from Oprah Winfrey to Netflix to whatever, you know, as the Spotify guy put it, whatever grift they could get paid for, up they were, trashing their families.

00:30:30.740 So the idea now that they're reduced, or that certainly Meghan Markle is now reduced, from somebody who, you know, remember Meghan, she had a fairytale royal wedding that was seen around the world.

00:30:41.920 You know, the carriages drawn down to Windsor Castle and so on. It was an amazing event. Everyone in this country, I'm in the UK at the moment, everyone loved that marriage when it happened.

00:30:52.580 There was universal support for it, euphoria. It was only their behaviour in the first year of their marriage when they began to behave rankly hypocritically, lecturing about poverty whilst having half a million dollar baby showers, you know,

00:31:06.160 to lecturing us about the need to watch our carbon footprint and using Elton John and George Clooney's private jets like taxi cabs.

00:31:14.120 And it was the constant hypocrisy that they got picked up on by the media, and then they couldn't handle the criticism from the media.

00:31:21.240 And then it all turned hostile. Then they started suing everybody. And the whole thing got so toxic, eventually they just say, we've had enough of this.

00:31:27.640 We're not going to do any more dreary duties on a wet Wednesday, which is what you have to do to earn your royal titles in the estimation of the public.

00:31:36.600 And they decamped off to Montecito, bought themselves a massive mansion.

00:31:41.020 And they were supposed to be doing it, Meghan, if you remember, this was going to be their liberation, their freedom.

00:31:46.320 And it was supposed to make them happy.

00:31:47.740 I've never seen two more miserable people who've never stopped whining and suing absolutely everybody in the pretense that this is because they found their liberation and freedom. 0.99

00:31:57.660 If you're so damn happy and free and liberated, shut up, stop whining, complaining about everything. 0.98

00:32:03.920 But they're obviously not happy. And it's obviously been diminishing returns where when you trash your family again and again and again, eventually there's not much left to say. 0.98

00:32:11.980 And people don't really want to hear it. It's like the Spotify guy said, they're just a pair of grifters who just want to trash their family for loads of money and not put a shift in to do proper work.

00:32:21.160 You and I know how hard it is to do this kind of thing properly.

00:32:24.620 You know, it's a lot of work with a dedicated team and you put the hours in and you've got to be creative and high energy and really put graft in.

00:32:32.860 These two wanted to do massive deals with companies and then not do any work.

00:32:37.080 Nobody wants to see her next podcast. Nobody listened to the first one.

00:32:40.140 And that's for this thing she's now doing with the ridiculously long name that no one can remember, but she's going to try and be the new Marvel. 0.83

00:32:48.260 Whatever. I have to write American Riviera Orchard C footnote 47 for the remainder of the name.

00:32:55.580 Right. And she's now got all her celebrity, you know, sort of B-list, C-list mates putting out Instagram posts about her jam. 1.00

00:33:01.880 And it's like, how the mighty fall. This was a woman who had it all in this country, who literally had it all.

00:33:09.320 And he's now flogging jam from her kitchen in Montecito while her husband runs around fuming about absolutely everything and everyone because he knows in his gut, he knows what he's lost.

00:33:22.280 And eventually those chickens will come home to roost. 0.99

00:33:26.780 And then she will be touting their eggs on her stupid website where she's wearing evening gowns while walking around her mansion that we're supposed to feel sorry for her because she's in. 1.00

00:33:36.960 I love it. But on the grifter subject, one of the funniest things that was Bill Simmons, who said that at Spotify, I've never, never seen such a pair of grifters. 0.99

00:33:43.680 They wouldn't do any work. She got paid all this money. She barely did anything. Him, too.

00:33:48.180 And now she signs this pod deal with his lemonada. We're not getting a podcast for years.

00:33:53.160 And then she decides to sign this deal with Netflix. She's done nothing other than now this show she's going to do on cooking and friendship.

00:34:00.340 Finally. OK, we'll believe it when we see it. And then finally, she's got her little Riviera thing going.

00:34:05.440 We're so far. We've had. One jar of strawberry jam.

00:34:11.900 I know. It's sort of lazy and a bit pathetic. You know, this is somebody who demands that we use the title Duchess of Sussex. 0.99

00:34:23.480 I come from Sussex, which is a county in the south of England. I've spent more time in Sussex than the last month than Meghan Markle has spent in her entire life.

00:34:32.840 She has no actual right.

00:34:34.160 She's your ruler, Piers. I didn't know that she's your.

00:34:36.340 She ain't my ruler, Meghan Kelly. She is somebody who, listen, as I've said to you, I think, many times before, if they actually want to do this kind of thing and trade themselves around as sort of, you know, celebrities and do that sort of circus, then they can do it.

00:34:53.580 But they can't do it with the royal titles. They shouldn't be using the royal titles of Duke and Duchess of Sussex.

00:34:58.840 Bestowed on them by the monarchy, an institution they constantly complain about and trash whenever they get the chance.

00:35:05.380 Fine. If you want to go off and be celebrities in California, do it.

00:35:08.240 But don't trade on the titles.

00:35:09.900 Every time I see her demanding to be called Duchess of Sussex, I laugh.

00:35:13.880 Nobody in Britain calls her that.

00:35:15.720 Meghan Markle.

00:35:16.900 You know, she got lucky, met her prince, dragged him out of the bosom of his family, dragged him away from the monarchy, which bestowed those titles on them,

00:35:25.100 and has now ruthlessly, with him, exploited those titles for massive personal gain. 0.98

00:35:30.700 And I think it's disgusting and hypocritical. 0.98

00:35:33.320 They shouldn't be allowed to do it. 0.87

00:35:34.700 I hope that King Charles, who obviously is massively distracted by his illness, but I hope that King Charles, at some stage, just has that conversation and says,

00:35:42.280 you can't keep the titles, I'm sorry, but you can't keep demeaning the status of being a member of the royal family

00:35:48.560 and attacking the family and the monarchy and retain your titles.

00:35:52.540 You can just be Harry and Meghan, and see how you get on, by the way, when you're no longer royals, because the answer is not very far.

00:36:00.860 That's right.

00:36:01.580 Who wants your jam then? 0.92

00:36:03.240 Piers Morgan, thank you so much.

00:36:05.040 Such a pleasure.

00:36:05.720 Check out Piers is on YouTube now.

00:36:07.240 This is his main venue, and he's crushing it.

00:36:09.520 So check him out, Piers Morgan.

00:36:11.260 It's probably YouTube.com slash Piers Morgan, right?

00:36:13.600 I'm subscribed.

00:36:14.560 I just don't remember the exact, but that's what it is.

00:36:16.600 Just Google Piers Morgan on YouTube, they'll find it.

00:36:20.380 Okay.

00:36:20.860 Thank you, sir.

00:36:21.460 See you soon, I hope.

00:36:22.920 Glad to see you, Meghan.

00:36:23.720 Take care.

00:36:24.960 Okay.

00:36:25.340 Up next, Harmeet Dhillon on all things Trump legal.

00:36:28.820 Big developments today.

00:36:29.740 Stay tuned for that.

00:36:33.360 The issue of presidential immunity front and center at the U.S. Supreme Court today, and this is an important one, not just for Donald Trump, but for the country.

00:36:41.980 Joining me now, Harmeet Dhillon, managing partner of the Dhillon Law Group.

00:36:45.540 Harmeet, welcome back to the show.

00:36:46.660 So you've represented Trump in connection with the efforts to keep him off of the ballots in various states successfully.

00:36:52.940 And now this argument goes to something much bigger and wider about whether a president can be prosecuted for crimes at all for anything during his time in office.

00:37:06.220 It's not about whether once he leaves the office he can be prosecuted.

00:37:08.800 Everybody knows, yes.

00:37:09.600 The answer to that is yes.

00:37:11.080 But while a sitting president, can he be prosecuted for crimes?

00:37:14.700 So how do you think it's still going?

00:37:16.520 It started at 10.

00:37:17.180 Usually it would be over after an hour.

00:37:19.380 We're two hours and 40 minutes into it.

00:37:22.140 How do you think it's going?

00:37:23.720 Yeah, so you're right, Megan.

00:37:24.860 I was looking at my watch because how long this has been going on.

00:37:27.860 It's been almost three hours and the government is still arguing and answering a series of hypotheticals from the justices.

00:37:37.460 So what I heard from the president's very able lawyer, John Sauer, is a kind of a clear test that would make it very easy for the court to determine whether presidential immunity should apply in this case.

00:37:53.400 And that is you look to whether these are official acts of president as opposed to private acts in his private life while he was the president.

00:38:02.720 And that's the bright line rule.

00:38:04.180 And then there are a number of both legal and policy arguments that they went through to underlie that.

00:38:11.060 And what the government lawyer, Dreben, came out of the box arguing was very different.

00:38:16.980 And the longer he argues, the more he's positing different considerations and levels and layers of tests that would, in effect, make it impossible for there to be a bright line rule.

00:38:28.780 And that's the real problem, because the whole concept of presidential immunity, Megan, is that presidents, while they're in office, are dealing with literally the most important decisions in the world.

00:38:39.300 And they have to be able to make quick decisions in the public interest without fear that their decision may ultimately subject them to prosecution, perhaps, like in this case, many years down the road.

00:38:51.180 And so bright line tests are really what's indicated, whatever the rule is, not what I've heard this morning from the government.

00:38:57.820 He wouldn't be prosecuted unless he's a bad guy.

00:39:01.540 We can rely on the grand jury to protect us.

00:39:05.680 And grand juries don't indict people without substantial evidence, which is actually nonsense.

00:39:11.100 I laughed out loud when I heard that.

00:39:12.660 And oh, wait, can I play that?

00:39:14.700 Can I play that?

00:39:15.260 That was saying I was like, what?

00:39:17.320 So there was a bit where he was arguing openly, you know, you know that the prosecution, the prosecutors in this country, they would never go after somebody for political purposes.

00:39:28.620 Right.

00:39:28.760 I think Kelly McGuire, who cut these thoughts for me, I think that's thought 17.

00:39:32.000 Let's play it.

00:39:32.620 Now, you know how easy it is in many cases for a prosecutor to get a grand jury to bring an indictment and reliance on the good faith of the prosecutor may not be enough.

00:39:45.620 Why shouldn't we either send it back to the Court of Appeals or issue an opinion making clear that that's not the law?

00:39:53.860 Well, I am defending the Court of Appeals judgment.

00:39:56.720 And I do think that there are layered safeguards that the court can take into account that will ameliorate concerns about unduly chilling presidential conduct.

00:40:06.760 That concerns us.

00:40:08.020 We are not endorsing a regime that we think would expose former presidents to criminal prosecution in bad faith, for political animus, without adequate evidence.

00:40:20.080 A politically driven prosecution would violate the Constitution under Waite v. United States.

00:40:26.620 It's not something within the arsenal of prosecutors to do.

00:40:30.640 Oh, my God, Harmeet, it's not.

00:40:36.220 So if if I in the two hours almost that we've been listening to the government's case and it's still ongoing, the only clear rule I heard out of Michael Grieven's mouth effectively was trust the government, trust the DOJ specifically.

00:40:50.280 That's it.

00:40:50.740 Trust the DOJ.

00:40:51.940 The DOJ officials will never give bad advice to the president.

00:40:56.420 They will never do anything that's not protective of the best interests of the country.

00:41:00.280 Of course, not trust the president, who is actually elected by the people and by the states and the Electoral College, but trust the DOJ and its thousands of unelected priests of the law.

00:41:14.640 We have seen in the last few years, Megan, that, you know, you and I are both lawyers.

00:41:18.960 I'd say at the beginning of my career, I might have thought I would give the government the benefit of the doubt, not trust them.

00:41:24.340 But to this today, I say that I cannot give credence to what DOJ officials are doing, saying or recommending.

00:41:31.780 It is not in the public interest in many cases.

00:41:34.300 I've seen that time and time again, in First Amendment cases representing Project Veritas, in the cases involving COVID, which I went to the court many times over these issues.

00:41:45.680 Time and time again, the government has made the wrong calls in my lifetime.

00:41:50.040 And in this case, this particular prosecution is rife with official acts.

00:41:57.580 And so the bright line rule, I think, is the correct way to go for the court.

00:42:01.040 And I think many of the justices are struggling with how do we fashion a rule that then incentivizes people and gives them clear guidelines so that we aren't here over every single act of a president and there isn't a chilling effect on the presidency.

00:42:15.640 And, you know, right out of the box, John Sauer made the very good point that if we don't have a bright line rule, that is the rule we're advocating here for President Trump, effectively, all living presidents could be prosecuted for their acts while in office.

00:42:32.040 For example, the weapons of mass destruction argument under President Bush, the droning of American citizens by President Obama, the open border that President Biden has been allowing today.

00:42:48.320 Do we want presidents to be able to be prosecuted for that?

00:42:51.380 And the rule that we're articulating for says no, that they should not be prosecuted for official acts.

00:42:56.900 But when you listen to the argument and Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson is really digging into even, you know, there was an argument I hear advocated for some of the justices that even all of the official acts of president shouldn't be immunized from a prosecution, that we should then look at whether certain things are core acts of the presidency or whether they're acts that a president did,

00:43:22.000 but they're straying beyond the core acts of the presidency and to acts that overlap with other branches of government.

00:43:29.880 So the longer I listened, the less clear it became from what the government is articulating here.

00:43:36.860 Yes, pretty convoluted.

00:43:38.120 And Justice Gorsuch, and it is kind of interesting, right?

00:43:41.260 Of course, this is a Trump case about presidential immunity.

00:43:44.600 And three of the justices sitting up there were appointed by Trump or nominated by Trump.

00:43:48.460 So, I mean, it is, they're kind of, I mean, I trust they'll reach an objective opinion.

00:43:53.860 They've ruled against him before, but it's just a fun kind of dynamic to watch.

00:43:58.540 Anyway, Gorsuch is one of those justices.

00:44:01.200 And he was giving the, Dribin, the lawyer representing, in this case, the government, the following question.

00:44:09.940 Like, if we go with your rule, where they're just totally kind of exposed while they're in office, all these presidents,

00:44:17.120 why aren't we setting them up for the following weirdness?

00:44:19.840 Watch this.

00:44:20.440 It's soundbite 18.

00:44:23.220 Let's say a president leads a mostly peaceful protest sit-in in front of Congress

00:44:28.920 because he objects to a piece of legislation that's going through.

00:44:34.600 And it, in fact, delays the proceedings in Congress.

00:44:40.060 Now, under 1512C2, that might be corruptly impeding an official proceeding.

00:44:48.940 Is that core and therefore immunized or whatever word, euphemism you want to use for that?

00:44:54.160 Or is that not core and therefore prosecutable?

00:44:57.340 Well, I...

00:44:58.320 Without a clear statement that applies to the president.

00:45:00.860 It's not core.

00:45:02.460 The core kinds of activities that the court has acknowledged

00:45:06.320 are the things that I would run through the Youngstown analysis.

00:45:10.400 And it's a pretty small set.

00:45:12.740 But things like the pardon power, the power to recognize foreign nations,

00:45:16.420 the power to veto legislation...

00:45:18.700 So a president then could be prosecuted for the conduct I described after he leaves office?

00:45:25.340 Probably not.

00:45:27.520 Okay, that was more to your point of we're getting very confusing now.

00:45:30.780 This is in, this is out.

00:45:31.560 Here's a different exchange Gorsuch had on whether a president...

00:45:36.840 Well, we're going to have...

00:45:37.580 He's setting us up now for a situation where the president has to pardon himself

00:45:41.540 every presidential term before he leaves office.

00:45:44.680 Watch.

00:45:46.020 What would happen if presidents were under fear that their successors

00:45:51.940 would criminally prosecute them for their acts in office,

00:45:55.620 whether it's, whether they're engaged in drone strikes, all the hypotheticals.

00:46:00.340 I'm not going to go through them.

00:46:01.900 It seems to me like one of the incentives that might be created is for presidents to

00:46:06.060 try to pardon themselves.

00:46:09.080 Do you have any thoughts about that?

00:46:10.740 As Fitzgerald, I think very powerfully emphasized,

00:46:12.900 the real concern here is, is there going to be bold and fearless action?

00:46:16.680 Is the president going to have to make a controversial decision,

00:46:19.540 whereas political opponents are going to come after him the minute he leaves office?

00:46:23.420 Is that going to unduly deter?

00:46:25.760 Is that going to dampen the ardor of that president to do what our constitutional structure

00:46:30.260 demands of him or her, which is bold and fearless action in the face of controversy?

00:46:34.820 And perhaps if he feels he has to, he'll pardon himself every four years from now on.

00:46:40.940 But that, as the court pointed out, wouldn't provide the security

00:46:43.660 because the legality of that is something that's never been addressed.

00:46:48.200 Sticky wicked, Harmeet.

00:46:49.560 I mean, we are in uncharted territory here.

00:46:52.560 We are, and this is probably the most important case of this term

00:46:57.480 because it has far and wide-reaching implications for whether some of our past presidents

00:47:02.780 might be exposed to future prosecution if Republicans are ever allowed back into the White House,

00:47:08.580 which is a whole separate question.

00:47:10.440 And what I found very interesting is typically when you listen to Supreme Court arguments,

00:47:14.000 it's usually very dry and very respectful and non-inflammatory.

00:47:20.120 And I think, you know, that's what I heard from the president's lawyer.

00:47:23.580 What I heard from the government's lawyer was literally the same kind of political rhetoric

00:47:29.280 that is being used on the talk show airwaves on a daily basis to demonize and demagogue the former president.

00:47:37.160 So the assumption out of the mouth of the prosecution side, the government side,

00:47:42.680 Michael Drieben was constantly using the inflammatory labels, fake electors.

00:47:48.440 And, you know, just which I think is presuming the outcome of the case and not sort of, you know,

00:47:56.200 really looking at this from an objective perspective for purposes of fashioning an objective rule

00:48:01.900 that courts can apply, that presidents can be guided by,

00:48:06.020 because that's really the ultimate question of the case, right?

00:48:08.880 Yeah, that's why they took it.

00:48:10.020 They had a ruling from a lower court.

00:48:12.180 They took it to provide clarity from the highest level.

00:48:14.780 We're not done.

00:48:15.840 There's a lot more interesting aspects of this to get to.

00:48:18.840 We're going to take a quick break.

00:48:20.500 Harmeet stays with us.

00:48:21.440 Don't go away.

00:48:25.160 Help me understand, because I heard Sauer, counsel for Trump,

00:48:32.140 concede in an exchange with Justice Coney Barrett,

00:48:36.660 that some of the acts brought up in the indictment

00:48:40.440 and the indictments against Trump would not be considered in Trump's official capacity.

00:48:46.880 And she went through a couple of them with him.

00:48:50.400 And he was like, yeah, not in his official rule.

00:48:53.360 So it seemed to me that that concession was an acknowledgement by him

00:48:58.880 that this case will likely get kicked back down to a lower court

00:49:03.080 for some adjudication on at least those pieces of Jack Smith's claims,

00:49:09.940 which I can see works for Trump in terms of delay, delay, delay, you know,

00:49:14.120 but Trump would rather have just everything swept as immune, you know, and not have to.

00:49:18.900 So I'm going to play the exchange.

00:49:20.060 And then you explain to me what's happening here,

00:49:21.700 because I don't know that I fully understand what Sauer was doing.

00:49:26.560 Here's Amy Coney Barrett questioning Trump's lawyer, Sot 15. 0.55

00:49:29.320 You concede that private acts don't get immunity.

00:49:33.160 We do.

00:49:33.740 Okay.

00:49:34.280 And I want to know if you agree or disagree about the characterization of these acts as private.

00:49:39.480 Petitioner turned to a private attorney,

00:49:41.240 was willing to spread knowingly false claims of election fraud

00:49:43.980 to spearhead his challenges to the election results.

00:49:46.480 Private?

00:49:47.060 As alleged.

00:49:47.780 I mean, we dispute the allegation, but that sounds private to me.

00:49:50.340 Sounds private.

00:49:51.180 Petitioner conspired with another private attorney

00:49:53.280 who caused the filing in court of a verification signed by petitioner

00:49:56.780 that contained false allegations to support a challenge.

00:49:59.520 That also sounds private.

00:50:01.100 Three private actors, two attorneys, including those mentioned above,

00:50:04.580 and a political consultant helped implement a plan

00:50:07.060 to submit fraudulent slates of presidential electors

00:50:09.660 to obstruct the certification proceeding,

00:50:12.000 and petitioner and a co-conspirator attorney directed that effort.

00:50:15.760 You write it quickly.

00:50:17.000 I believe that's private.

00:50:18.120 I don't want to.

00:50:18.680 So those acts you would not dispute.

00:50:20.620 Those were private, and you wouldn't raise a claim that they were official.

00:50:23.620 As characterized.

00:50:25.780 Okay, Harmeet, explain that.

00:50:27.380 What's happening?

00:50:27.820 Yeah, so this is a tactic taken by the president's lawyers in the Supreme Court,

00:50:33.580 which is if you took the position, and, you know, this is a smart move by lawyers.

00:50:38.280 If you take your position as an advocate too far, you risk losing some of the justices,

00:50:44.440 particularly those who, I mean, you have to look at the fact that some of them

00:50:46.780 were appointed by President Trump.

00:50:48.080 We've been discussing it here.

00:50:49.000 They're extremely sensitive to any claim that they might be biased because of that.

00:50:54.140 And so, you know, they have to be objective and apply the law objectively.

00:50:57.120 So if you take too extreme a position, you're going to turn off those reasonable justices

00:51:01.100 who might otherwise vote for you.

00:51:02.820 And so this is where they've chosen to draw the line that,

00:51:05.860 and this is following a civil case that's currently pending.

00:51:09.200 It's part of a series of cases called Blassingame.

00:51:11.720 So you heard that word Blassingame versus Trump a lot in the first part of this argument.

00:51:16.120 And this refers to a D.C. Circuit ruling about civil liability of President Trump.

00:51:20.720 And this arises in cases of these Capitol Police officers and some others who are suing him.

00:51:27.620 My law firm represents him in those cases as well, in some of those cases as well.

00:51:31.800 And in that case, the D.C. Circuit's ruling was that he cannot have civil immunity for

00:51:40.920 candidate Trump actions.

00:51:43.320 He can't have civil immunity for President Trump actions.

00:51:47.180 And so that's the bright line, supposedly bright line in that case.

00:51:50.920 And so this is what John Sauer is referring back to, is that there are certain acts

00:51:55.880 that could be construed to be candidate Trump, and some of them were run through in that

00:52:01.560 example.

00:52:02.180 He didn't necessarily concede all of them.

00:52:04.180 And then there are others that are clearly President Trump.

00:52:06.440 President Trump and presidents in general do a lot of things that are beyond the core,

00:52:11.580 limited, president-only functions.

00:52:13.520 They advocate for legislation.

00:52:15.240 They make decisions.

00:52:17.140 They make up executive orders.

00:52:19.900 That's not in the core functions of the Constitution.

00:52:24.120 These are all things that have happened since then.

00:52:26.000 And so what the D.C. Circuit did in this case below was very extreme.

00:52:32.420 They did not adopt that blasting game analysis at all.

00:52:36.620 They did not attempt to make that determination of which of the acts alleged in the indictment

00:52:43.200 might plausibly be President Trump acts versus candidate Trump acts.

00:52:47.880 They basically swept them all with the broad brush, refused to conduct that analysis.

00:52:52.280 So at a minimum, what we are asking for, the President Trump side, is to send this case

00:52:56.680 back down and conduct the proper analysis to sort the wheat from the chaff here, because

00:53:01.360 clearly a lot of what is alleged in this indictment is simply, as a matter of 250 years of precedent,

00:53:08.940 presidential acts that are not subject to prosecution, period.

00:53:12.300 And then the others, they have factual defenses to them.

00:53:15.600 But, you know, the government, sorry, John Sauer did not want to concede that everything President Trump

00:53:20.580 is alleged to have done is necessarily President Trump versus candidate Trump.

00:53:26.420 So I'm thinking about the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals and its ruling.

00:53:31.520 As of now, because that's right now with a governing ruling until this Supreme Court reverses or affirms,

00:53:38.000 is the President naked at the moment?

00:53:42.260 Does the President have no immunity for acts while in office thanks to that ruling?

00:53:49.380 Well, I think the ruling only goes to the acts alleged in this particular indictment.

00:53:53.800 We all know as lawyers and as one of the justices made a joke to the sort of idiom that a grand jury

00:54:05.120 will indict a ham sandwich. The supposed protections of a president or anybody, any of us,

00:54:13.020 really, from being indicted for our activities because, oh, there's an objective system and

00:54:17.540 there's due process and, you know, there's the Fourth Amendment and there's a grand jury system.

00:54:22.700 And, of course, someone innocent would never be indicted, which is the DOJ's default position. 0.72

00:54:28.540 That's ludicrous. It happens all the time.

00:54:31.120 And even some of the liberal justices conceded that occasionally, I think it was Justice Sotomayor

00:54:37.120 who said innocent people have been put to death in this country.

00:54:39.520 So what kind of protection is that?

00:54:42.100 So, you know, at this point, I would say not just President Trump, and this is a critical point,

00:54:46.900 not just President Trump, but every living president is exposed by the ruling of the D.C.

00:54:52.980 Circuit to prosecution for acts that are within the statute of limitations. I mean, murder, of course,

00:54:58.980 has no such limit.

00:55:01.260 President Trump right now is kind of standing there, forgive me, but like, you know, exposed.

00:55:04.980 Well, let's go with that. It's nicer than naked. He's standing there exposed. And his lawyers are

00:55:09.460 trying to build a fortress around him that would benefit not just Trump, but any president, a fortress

00:55:14.740 around him to allow him to do his job as president and future presidents to do their jobs as president

00:55:19.020 better and without having to worry about getting hopped up on criminal charges all the time.

00:55:25.320 And and instead of kind of saying we want the full fortress around him on everything,

00:55:31.240 Sauer admitted, OK, it may be a partial fortress.

00:55:35.280 There's some things over here pursued in his role as candidate that may not have been presidential acts.

00:55:44.020 And I'm not going to fight you on those.

00:55:45.740 We may have to go back down to the district court and argue about those.

00:55:50.580 But I want the fortress reestablished for a whole bunch of stuff and will benefit not just President

00:55:55.260 Trump, but all presidents. And this Supreme Court's trying to fashion a rule.

00:55:59.440 Seems like they're accepting that as a practical reality.

00:56:03.240 At least that was my feeling like that. That was winning.

00:56:06.500 I think some immunity will be be provided, but definitely not all.

00:56:10.560 What do you think?

00:56:11.140 I think what's going to happen and, you know, given the rule articulated by the president's lawyers at the outset for strategic and also,

00:56:19.320 I think, integrity reasons, the the the best case scenario is this case gets remanded with instructions to the D.C.

00:56:27.100 Circuit or the trial court to apply existing precedent to parse out that a significant part of this indictment should be simply

00:56:35.920 tossed out as ineligible under constitutional framework because that sorry to interrupt you.

00:56:42.080 But that because that what that will do is is decide what's Trump actually going to get tried on?

00:56:48.180 What what is fair game for a jury to actually look at and what's not?

00:56:52.500 But all of that is very helpful for Trump, Harmeet. No, because it's absolutely because it first of all, it's delay.

00:56:59.460 And second of all, it's my belief that nothing that falls into that private category is also should make it to a jury because there's First Amendment.

00:57:08.840 There's First Amendment defenses.

00:57:10.800 He's got strong.

00:57:11.240 There's a number of other defenses.

00:57:12.660 Very strong defenses on that.

00:57:14.260 None of this case should ever reach a jury.

00:57:17.460 But on this immunity issue, most of the case should be tossed out.

00:57:20.960 The D.C.

00:57:21.480 Circuit should do its job.

00:57:22.860 It refused to do its job below.

00:57:24.780 And of course, the trial judge was openly contemptuous, I think, of all of these arguments and his other defenses.

00:57:31.220 So this will be a bench slap from the court to fix their really gross error that leaves all living presidents exposed.

00:57:39.060 It's so interesting.

00:57:40.180 It's it's complex.

00:57:41.300 It's complex for me, too.

00:57:42.320 So if the audience is struggling to hang on, I get it.

00:57:45.260 But we're just basically what happened today.

00:57:47.580 Net net was good for Trump.

00:57:49.440 He's I think he's definitely better off right now than he was certainly after that Court of Appeals ruling against him.

00:57:55.000 And I thought the argument today did not go terribly for his side.

00:57:59.020 It didn't go.

00:57:59.940 It wasn't I wasn't like listening, thinking this is going to be a 9-0 opinion against him.

00:58:04.800 I think he's actually going to leave with something better than what he had.

00:58:08.940 I just don't know what it's going to look like.

00:58:10.660 So it sounds like you agree with me on that.

00:58:13.080 I agree with that.

00:58:14.020 And look, to be clear, I think Michael Dreeben, very, very smart lawyer.

00:58:17.860 The fact that he had to argue so long and produce test after test, pulling tests out of his hat is problematic.

00:58:25.580 Because the justices don't want to see a slippery, slow, wishy-washy, loosey-goosey ruling come out here.

00:58:33.660 That's terrible for the presidency and for separation of powers and for the Constitution, the operation of this government.

00:58:39.180 It is important that a bright line test come out, that courts can apply clearly so that we don't have this again.

00:58:44.160 Nobody wants to be hearing cases like this, I'm sure, at the court.

00:58:46.760 Here's a last soundbite on this.

00:58:49.140 This is Justice Alito raising a similar point in COP25.

00:58:52.620 If an incumbent who loses a very close, hotly contested election knows that a real possibility after leaving office

00:59:07.340 is not that the president is going to be able to go off into a peaceful retirement,

00:59:12.280 but that the president may be criminally prosecuted by a bitter political opponent,

00:59:19.160 will that not lead us into a cycle that destabilizes the functioning of our country as a democracy?

00:59:28.580 So I think it's exactly the opposite, Justice Alito.

00:59:31.340 There are lawful mechanisms to contest the results in an election.

00:59:36.540 And outside the record, but I think of public knowledge,

00:59:41.960 Petitioner and his allies filed dozens of electoral challenges.

00:59:48.320 And in my understanding is lost all but one that was not outcome determinative in any respect.

00:59:55.120 There were judges that said in order to sustain substantial claims of fraud,

01:00:01.040 that would overturn an election result that's certified by a state.

01:00:05.160 You need evidence, you need proof.

01:00:07.580 And none of those things were manifested.

01:00:09.620 So there is an appropriate way to challenge things through the courts with evidence.

01:00:13.640 If you lose, you accept the results.

01:00:16.020 That has been the nation's experience.

01:00:17.800 OK, I just wanted to say that listening to Sam Alito there, you know, they they do kind of live in an ivory tower,

01:00:25.180 but they know what's happening in the country.

01:00:27.120 But he was talking about how, you know, prosecutors are going to do this thanks to a bitter opponent in a presidential race isn't going to cause instability.

01:00:34.760 Welcome to our world, Sam.

01:00:36.580 Yes, it's going to.

01:00:38.020 We're all living with a day to day.

01:00:40.220 Can I add one more point here?

01:00:41.660 I want to amend something I said.

01:00:43.040 What's interesting is that President Biden himself may not be feeling the pain of potentially facing that

01:00:49.620 because a separate special counsel has ruled that he's too feeble minded and old and, you know, 0.89

01:00:57.460 depraved, frankly, mentally to stand for trial.

01:01:01.620 So this is a triple jeopardy in that sense that the one guy who is orchestrating this witch hunt clearly from the White House is the one guy who some DOJ officials think can't stand trial.

01:01:13.940 Quickly, the Trump.

01:01:16.260 Criminal trial in New York, the hush money, the stormy.

01:01:21.620 David Pecker is still on the stand.

01:01:24.240 Harmeet, the way I see this is and I mean, I've got to say, like, the is bloodthirsty too strong a term.

01:01:30.200 But I mean, the bloodthirsty press covering this is a lot.

01:01:34.340 It's a lot to listen to.

01:01:35.660 Like, it's a little dramatic for me.

01:01:37.720 And I mentioned in the intro to this show, Maggie Haberman listening to Pecker.

01:01:43.580 And I'll just give you a quick bit on what he's saying this morning.

01:01:48.200 He is talking about how he had an exchange, several exchanges with Michael Cohen, Trump's lawyer,

01:01:55.240 and they came up with a system that would create a payment voucher voucher for Karen McDougal, the playboy playmate who was threatening to come forward about her affair with Trump for for McDougal's lawyer that the prosecutor was getting louder.

01:02:10.540 She reports as he drills into a critical element of the prosecution's case that these payments to Karen McDougal were made to influence the election.

01:02:20.140 He's getting louder to make the point.

01:02:22.500 He is identifying exhibits that corroborate the story about McDougal.

01:02:28.340 Pecker admits straightforwardly when asked that he did not, quote, want this story to embarrass Mr.

01:02:33.700 Trump or embarrass or hurt the campaign.

01:02:37.220 Per The New York Times, this is the crescendo of his story about Karen McDougal and hugely powerful testimony for the prosecution.

01:02:46.180 Haberman says the testimony is leading into a clear story about knowingly violating campaign finance laws.

01:02:54.680 And, Harmeet, it is true that David Pecker, the American Media Inc., already struck in a cooperation agreement with the government so that they wouldn't get prosecuted.

01:03:06.900 And Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to breaking the law by doing these acts.

01:03:12.960 But he actually went to jail after pleading guilty to a bunch of stuff.

01:03:16.180 It wasn't just this.

01:03:16.920 It had to do with these taxi medallions and all this stuff.

01:03:18.700 But just because somebody strikes a cooperation deal or pleads guilty to a crime that later gets brought against someone else does not mean the crime was legally sound or valid in the first place.

01:03:32.740 And what I really think, and I'm open minded to, OK, maybe they've got this legal theory.

01:03:38.420 Walk me through it.

01:03:39.160 I'm a lawyer.

01:03:39.740 I want to be right more than I want to be loved by an audience.

01:03:42.680 What I see here is still to prove, because they're arguing this campaign finance violation, to prove there was a campaign finance violation for them to do all of this, a campaign donation that wasn't allowed, you have to prove that the only reason one would ever engage in such payments to a woman like Karen McDougal or a woman like Stormy Daniels or a doorman with his alleged story about Trump, which has been disproven,

01:04:12.680 would be to advance a campaign, would be to advance a campaign.

01:04:16.500 It has to be.

01:04:17.060 It's an objective standard that looks at the nature of the payment, not the reasons in this particular case.

01:04:25.980 So I don't care.

01:04:27.580 I don't care what Pecker says about his concerns Trump might lose or what Trump, even Trump could take the stand and say, I did it because I didn't want to lose.

01:04:37.400 And it wouldn't matter given the nature of these payments.

01:04:40.800 But Harmeet, so you agree with me.

01:04:42.620 I'm glad because it's so confusing.

01:04:44.300 Oh, yeah, absolutely.

01:04:45.620 Where is that?

01:04:46.580 Where is that guardrail in what's allowed in terms of the testimony?

01:04:51.680 And ultimately, I feel like the guardrail is going to be missing on the jury instructions, too.

01:04:56.820 Well, look, this this case is a complete travesty of justice.

01:04:59.500 And I don't say that just as a lawyer who's represented President Trump against Stormy Daniels and won $600,000 total in judgments against her.

01:05:06.360 I mean, that is the most biased possible witness.

01:05:08.140 She owes him currently over $300,000 after some offsets.

01:05:11.460 Secondly, it is very clear at the time of those prosecutions where Michael Cohen pled guilty that he was he was incentivized, as many criminal defendants are, to compose, to make up allegations that literally had little or nothing to do with the underlying strong allegations that the government had against him with respect to taxi medallions and a bunch of other misconduct on his part.

01:05:35.000 This other stuff was swept in there for purposes of planting the seed for this prosecution.

01:05:40.420 You're absolutely correct, Megan.

01:05:42.000 We've given the advice to many candidates.

01:05:44.280 And, you know, it is it is so common in corporate America.

01:05:47.980 I have personally drafted agreements like this.

01:05:50.340 Your client did nothing wrong, but there's a fake allegation by a disgruntled former employee or random member of the public.

01:05:56.240 You give them one hundred twenty five thousand dollars is literally nuisance chump change.

01:06:00.920 It costs a lot more literally to try a case.

01:06:03.060 It's it's nothing.

01:06:05.000 And if there is a mixed motive for a payment under campaign finance law, federal campaign finance law, the candidate wins.

01:06:11.840 And that is the case here, that there is a mixed motive for any such payment.

01:06:16.980 And that is buy peace, save money, protect your marriage from frivolous allegations, as a as a famous man about town frequently has to do.

01:06:28.020 And so it is actually an open and shut case.

01:06:31.200 And what the judge did in this case, Judge Judge Merchant, is outrageous.

01:06:33.840 Outrageous. He has prevented President Trump from bringing in campaign finance experts who would have advised the court that there is no finance violation here.

01:06:44.260 This is the most biased.

01:06:46.060 Absolutely. And my God, we have limited time here.

01:06:49.360 But I could go on of the number of reversible errors this judge has committed.

01:06:53.460 That is but one of many.

01:06:55.040 And, you know, this morning with Harvey Weinstein case coming down and the reversal in the in the New York court, that literally what's happening in court right now in this Trump case is what the highest court in New York has said is impermissible.

01:07:09.940 That is OK, wait, wait, this is great. This is this is big. I want to I want to talk about this.

01:07:13.480 Let me just set it up, though, because, yes, this is important.

01:07:15.460 And thankfully, the Megyn Kelly show audience is smart and informed because we've gone neck deep on the Harvey appeal with our pal Arthur Idala, who argued it.

01:07:24.960 And so for those of you who love Arthur like I do, go, Arthur.

01:07:28.160 Yeah, he won. I know we don't like Harvey, but that's a separate matter.

01:07:31.700 We care about due process and we care about rule of law.

01:07:34.060 And what happened is today, Arthur Idala won. He was on the show explaining how he felt about how the argument went.

01:07:40.680 He knew it was going to be kind of tight. He's trying to get the conviction of Harvey Weinstein on these sex assault and rape claims reversed, not because he or I don't know what Arthur thinks, but not necessarily because of guilt or innocence, but because the process in trying Harvey was unfair.

01:07:56.020 He was deprived of his due process rights because New York allows everything in against somebody who gets accused like all your bad acts.

01:08:04.380 If you had taken the witness stand, everything he'd ever done, every woman who ever had an accusation tested or not would have been allowed to take the stand against him.

01:08:12.460 It effectively deprives this person of their right to take the stand.

01:08:16.800 Here's Arthur explaining some of it on our show just like a month ago.

01:08:20.020 They tried to introduce women who rejected him under the premise that, see, these women who he's not charged with, they rejected him.

01:08:31.020 So it must be true that the women who he's charged with rejected him as well.

01:08:36.480 And that just demeans women. And that's what I told that to the judges. 1.00

01:08:39.600 I mean, what, all women react exactly the same way? 0.97

01:08:42.080 Of course not. There were more women who testified against him, who never went, who was never charged with, never went in front of a grand jury,

01:08:48.840 than with the women who he was actually charged with.

01:08:51.600 She said, how could this be a fair trial when it's a he said, she said case, and you took the he said out of the equation and you added more, she said, she said, she said, that he wasn't even charged with.

01:09:03.220 So we are waiting, honestly, on pins and needles.

01:09:05.480 Three men on the panel, can they go home and tell their family, yeah, I'm helping Harvey Weinstein out.

01:09:10.340 I mean, I don't know. I hope they can.

01:09:12.500 I pray they can for our whole system of justice.

01:09:14.520 For every defendant in the United States of America, I hope they have the strength to say, yeah, I'm helping a bad guy.

01:09:22.700 Because under the law, he wasn't treated fairly.

01:09:26.760 By the way, Harvey's going to stay in jail, but explain how this helps Trump's case.

01:09:30.420 Yeah, no. So just I'll finish my thought, which is this is prior bad act kind of evidence that that is got nothing to do with the case under prosecution, really.

01:09:41.400 And the idea that somebody did something similar in the past and he's a bad guy because of that, that's literally a backdoor way to just smear him in violation of due process.

01:09:50.000 And the New York's highest court has ruled that that there is very clear precedent that says that you can't do that. 0.99

01:09:56.340 So I think we can all agree Harvey Weinstein, total scumbag. 0.95

01:10:00.980 OK, however, it's enough to prosecute him for the actual acts that they were able to get him on within the statute of limitations. 0.98

01:10:07.480 And if he's retried, they can still get a prosecution based on his disgusting behavior in the case at trial, as opposed to his disgusting behavior in a number of cases where the statute of limitations had passed, the witnesses, you know, memories had faded.

01:10:20.500 And, you know, he's going to be in jail for a long time and on both coasts for his horrible behavior, regardless of this.

01:10:28.240 But due process wins in this case.

01:10:29.800 And if this rule were applied in the New York case against President Trump, this David Pecker stuff, which has now already tainted the jury, is reversible error and requires a retrial without this evidence there.

01:10:42.360 And with a different judge who's incredibly biased under New York law, had an obligation to recuse himself.

01:10:46.860 And with that, I will rest my case.

01:10:50.320 We consider it submitted.

01:10:51.820 Harmi, thank you so much.

01:10:52.840 Great to see you.

01:10:53.820 Thank you for having me.

01:10:55.720 Isn't this so interesting?

01:10:56.940 My gosh, so many of our stories like coming together that we've been covering on this show.

01:11:01.740 It is very fascinating to me to see how the Harvey Weinstein case might actually help Trump.

01:11:06.900 And I do wonder whether that that ruling that Judge Mershon made the other day, you guys remember this saying everything could come in, you know, virtually everything could come in.

01:11:16.380 Not the sexual assault civil verdict against Trump that was won by E. Jean Carroll, but the defamation verdict and the civil fraud verdict and the Access Hollywood, not the tape, but the transcript.

01:11:31.540 All of these are alleged prior bad acts, at least some of them are, and they've been permitted.

01:11:38.340 So it's not that this ruling is saying no prior bad acts can come in.

01:11:42.000 There's always been an exception to that rule if they can prove pattern, for example.

01:11:46.560 But it's been limited today.

01:11:48.520 And we'll have to figure out how and just how much this could help Trump, either actively in this trial or on appeal.

01:11:55.740 In the meantime, as I said, Harvey Weinstein's not getting out of jail.

01:11:58.400 He's been sentenced to, I think, 16 years by the Los Angeles courts, and the New York DA has already said he's going to retry Harvey, so we're going to have another trial, for sure.

01:12:09.280 And he's probably going to win.

01:12:10.800 He's probably going to win that trial against Harvey, because let's face it, Harvey probably did it.

01:12:15.360 I realize there are defenses that the women went willingly and all that.

01:12:18.280 We'll see that play out.

01:12:18.940 But win or lose, he should be convicted, if convicted, based on the testimony of the women who are subject to cross-examination and the rules of evidence and who show up in court to present their story.

01:12:31.760 You should not be convicted based on a slew of past acts that aren't at issue here or a slew of women who haven't had the full vetting that a criminal trial around them might lead to and so on.

01:12:45.240 And we can't keep depriving men, effectively, of their right to testify, because everything but the kitchen sink could come in against them.

01:12:52.240 That's not good for us or for them.

01:12:54.400 I feel like due process and justice won today, and Harvey's not going anywhere.

01:12:59.140 All right, coming up, we get to the Biden gaffe that I actually think might lose him the election.

01:13:04.060 I'm not kidding.

01:13:05.180 If I were President Trump, I would just run this on loop.

01:13:07.280 I would start every campaign ad with it.

01:13:09.400 But I couldn't—I mean, I could believe my eyes, but it sounds like he still manages to surprise me with his utter daffiness, and I just can't believe his wife is allowing this.

01:13:21.960 Duggar, if this ever happens to me, honey, step in.

01:13:25.000 Step in.

01:13:25.540 I don't have to do this show forever.

01:13:27.240 We can go to Provence.

01:13:28.740 We can sit in a camper.

01:13:30.560 Don't let me humiliate myself like that.

01:13:32.540 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM.

01:13:36.920 It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today.

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01:14:35.700 We've got so much news to get to today.

01:14:37.620 It's drinking from a fire hose.

01:14:38.680 Some days, not so much.

01:14:39.780 Today, yes.

01:14:41.100 Hundreds of students arrested across the country yesterday in the ongoing anti-Israel protests.

01:14:46.600 And Joe Biden's latest gaffe.

01:14:50.280 Pause.

01:14:51.560 Could it cost him the election?

01:14:53.360 Joining me now, Josh Hammer, host of America on Trial with Josh Hammer.

01:14:57.380 And Sarah Gonzalez, host of Blaze TV's Sarah Gonzalez Unfiltered.

01:15:01.980 Josh, Sarah, welcome back to the show.

01:15:03.420 Great to see you.

01:15:04.700 Thanks for having us.

01:15:06.620 How can we not start with this?

01:15:08.840 Here he was yesterday speaking in front of members of North America's building trades unions

01:15:15.540 in Washington, D.C.

01:15:17.600 It was such a simple assignment.

01:15:19.880 It was so simple.

01:15:21.560 Here's how it went.

01:15:22.200 Imagine what we can do next.

01:15:25.320 Four more years.

01:15:27.900 Pause.

01:15:28.420 Four more years.

01:15:29.960 Four more years.

01:15:31.660 Four more years.

01:15:33.360 Oh, my God.

01:15:34.960 Four more years.

01:15:36.960 Pause.

01:15:38.440 Pause. 0.99

01:15:39.260 And when the White House transcription guy, God love this poor slob. 1.00

01:15:44.080 Who knows what he's had to go through?

01:15:45.740 They changed it to unintelligible.

01:15:51.160 They refused to write pause.

01:15:53.960 Sir, we know it.

01:15:55.500 We know what it was.

01:15:56.820 It was very clear.

01:15:57.980 He said pause.

01:15:59.120 He embarrassed himself again.

01:16:00.380 And he cannot be saved by the White House transcription guy.

01:16:04.880 Sarah, I'll start with you on it.

01:16:06.180 I really think this is the kind of thing that will horrify and stick.

01:16:10.840 I agree.

01:16:11.880 And I mean, look, we have watched gaffe after gaffe after after gaffe with Joe Biden throughout

01:16:16.980 these three and a half years.

01:16:17.960 And even I, as critical as I am of Joe Biden and as aware as I am that this is basically

01:16:23.560 a weekend at Bernie's presidency, even I was like, I still cannot believe this happened.

01:16:29.040 I saw it yesterday afternoon.

01:16:30.380 And even in the evening, I'm like, I still cannot believe what I just watched here.

01:16:34.900 This man has been in public service for, what, 40, 50 years, and he still cannot read

01:16:39.220 a teleprompter.

01:16:40.460 It's because he's not here.

01:16:42.240 I think we need to see it again and then pick it up on the back end.

01:16:44.580 Let's watch it again.

01:16:46.000 Imagine what we can do next.

01:16:47.960 Four more years.

01:16:51.120 Four more years.

01:16:53.160 Four more years.

01:16:54.860 Four more years.

01:16:57.060 Oh, my God.

01:16:58.560 Keep going.

01:16:59.660 Well, I just it also can't be lost on everyone that the four more years chant was clearly

01:17:05.980 completely staged because they wanted him to pause because they couldn't trust the audience

01:17:11.660 to be that enthusiastic.

01:17:12.700 They had to map it all out.

01:17:14.600 Unfortunately, they overestimated Joe Biden's ability to read from a teleprompter, which I'm

01:17:19.720 sure we've all read from.

01:17:21.580 It's very clear when they want you to pause.

01:17:23.740 It's written differently in the prompter.

01:17:26.400 There's no reason for him to make this mistake other than the fact that the man is half dead.

01:17:30.720 It's true.

01:17:32.100 You know, I was thinking about, Josh, Mika Brzezinski on the Morning Joe show not long

01:17:37.400 ago was angry when he tripped and fell on stage that time at his handlers.

01:17:42.940 Why aren't they taking better care of him?

01:17:44.420 You know, they know he's elderly.

01:17:45.540 Why are you setting him up to fail or fall or have these incidents?

01:17:49.200 I mean, what are they supposed to do?

01:17:52.740 Like, he can only do it with a teleprompter.

01:17:55.920 We've seen what happens when he doesn't have the teleprompter here.

01:17:59.600 I mean, when he has the prompter, though, in defense of the Mika Brzezinski argument,

01:18:03.800 which is like he should be spared these humiliations, he screws it up all the time.

01:18:08.440 Here's a little montage of him in other instances reading the instructions in the teleprompter that

01:18:15.700 are meant for him only.

01:18:17.220 Watch.

01:18:17.320 The percentage of women who register to vote and cast a ballot is consistently higher than

01:18:22.920 the percentage of the men who do so.

01:18:24.720 End of quote.

01:18:25.660 Repeat the line.

01:18:26.820 We can find that unity again.

01:18:30.300 Then the message said, end of message.

01:18:34.920 Four more years.

01:18:37.620 Four more years.

01:18:39.540 Four more years.

01:18:41.220 Four more years.

01:18:42.880 Oh, my God.

01:18:44.260 Repeat the line.

01:18:45.140 I forgot about that one, Josh.

01:18:47.320 Yeah, you know, I mean, I'm really happy you mentioned what the White House transcriber

01:18:52.480 reproduces as because what that actually reminded me of was that viral moment from the NASCAR

01:18:57.060 race actually two and a half years ago where the crowd starts chanting F Joe Biden and they're

01:19:00.900 like, oh, they're saying let's go brand.

01:19:02.500 I mean, that was a let's that was a let's go Brandon moment in a nutshell right there.

01:19:06.960 And I think that you both are right that things like this actually are really going to matter.

01:19:11.560 Now, it's worth pointing out that Joe Biden has been a gaffe machine for the entirety of

01:19:16.140 his political career.

01:19:16.860 I mean, he's palpably senile at this point.

01:19:18.700 I mean, it's not it's not a fun thing to say.

01:19:20.740 I mean, I have a 94 year old grandmother.

01:19:22.420 I mean, these things are difficult.

01:19:23.540 I mean, like it's not fun to discuss, but he obviously is senile.

01:19:26.080 But that can't necessarily hide the fact that he's been a genuine gaffe machine since the

01:19:31.180 moment he first set foot in Washington, D.C. back in the 1970s.

01:19:35.660 It really is remarkable that when it comes to something as basic as a teleprompter, which

01:19:40.520 literally any politician, anyone who is on the campaign trail, who's giving a some speech

01:19:45.020 learns to master this very straightforward art.

01:19:48.000 It's not exactly nuclear physics.

01:19:49.560 It really is remarkable that he's committing this kind of mistakes in the year 2024.

01:19:53.740 Hopefully, the American people are paying attention right now.

01:19:56.540 I mean, ultimately, I mean, we're laughing here on the show and it's good to make that.

01:20:00.940 He should.

01:20:01.980 I mean, like this is a major issue insofar as you look around the world, Megan, I don't

01:20:05.500 need to be the one to tell you you cover it every day, but the world is on fire right

01:20:08.820 now and the universities are on fire.

01:20:10.660 All of our enemies are looking at that stuff.

01:20:13.180 Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, they are kicking their feet up on the table and they are getting

01:20:17.200 a bigger laugh out of it than the three of us just got on your show.

01:20:20.640 Yes, you're right.

01:20:21.560 I mean, Sarah mentioned Weekend at Bernie's.

01:20:23.360 It's like a little combination of Bernie and Ron Burgundy, who was this, you know, anchor

01:20:29.340 in this very funny movie back in, I think, 2004, who couldn't read.

01:20:33.500 He had the same teleprompter issues.

01:20:35.500 It's a great movie.

01:20:36.640 And there was we pulled the soundbite for the listeners.

01:20:40.500 You'll hear him say his name.

01:20:41.660 And he says it like like he's questioning it because in the prompter, it apparently read,

01:20:45.960 I'm Ron Burgundy with a question mark.

01:20:48.500 That's Joe Biden here.

01:20:49.640 Watch it just for old time's sake.

01:20:53.360 Well, that's going to do it for all of us here at Channel 4 News.

01:20:56.460 You stay classy, San Diego.

01:20:58.640 I'm Ron Burgundy.

01:21:02.340 Who typed a question mark on the teleprompter for the last time?

01:21:06.560 Anything you put on that prompter, Burgundy will read.

01:21:09.940 It's Bernie Burgundy.

01:21:16.320 It's so funny to me.

01:21:17.680 I will tell you, look, I think I've told the story before, but there was an anchor at Fox

01:21:22.340 News who wasn't exactly the sharpest tack.

01:21:24.960 And this person was signing off of a show and they forgot to have the person say, for example,

01:21:34.520 I'm Megyn Kelly.

01:21:35.520 Good night.

01:21:36.740 And this person would say that their name every night when signing off.

01:21:41.200 And the producers forgot to put the name in the prompter the one night that this person was

01:21:47.520 signing off and the anchor ad libbed their own name.

01:21:53.960 And when the anchor got off the set, said to the producers, I'm a professional, so proud

01:22:00.840 that this person had remembered their own name, not even giving the gender on it.

01:22:06.380 It's just trust me, it actually happened.

01:22:08.900 There are some real doofuses.

01:22:10.680 They don't normally become president of the United States.

01:22:14.300 It's it's a problem.

01:22:15.740 He's got the nuclear codes.

01:22:17.120 And yeah, you point out we've got some savvy enemies watching every minute of it.

01:22:21.600 OK, so let's talk about what's happening with the college campuses.

01:22:25.140 I'm interested, Josh, you're very pro-Israel and we've talked about this before.

01:22:30.780 What do you make of the college campus madness and how, if at all, it should be reined in?

01:22:37.440 Right.

01:22:37.660 The Columbia University is probably the best example because now you've got a push to get

01:22:42.460 the president of the university fired because she called in the cops.

01:22:47.740 Um, she was trying not to be a Claudine Gay or Liz McGill, those other university presidents

01:22:54.080 who testified on campus.

01:22:55.020 She wanted to go the other way and be like, no, no, I understand.

01:22:56.960 Israel knows you can't be anti-Semitic.

01:22:58.640 But then she went so far as to restore order or try to on her campus. 0.99

01:23:03.560 And now she may get fired by her supporters on campus or previous supporters for doing that, 0.61

01:23:09.160 but contrasted with Governor Abbott down in Texas, who today said, arrest them all, which

01:23:14.660 may be, you know, well, is sort of a little bit more harsher than, uh, even what she did.

01:23:21.480 Yeah.

01:23:21.960 I mean, honestly, Megan, I don't think that arresting goes far enough.

01:23:24.540 I mean, typically when these students are arrested by local police or oftentimes even the

01:23:28.340 municipal police departments, I mean, they're, they're out within an hour or two of checking

01:23:32.120 into the local police precinct.

01:23:33.640 I mean, yeah, they get a nice photo op in the handcuffs.

01:23:35.740 It probably actually increases their martyrdom, their victimology status, frankly, you know,

01:23:40.740 for, for the locals who are kind of cheering them on back home.

01:23:43.500 I mean, there needs to be severe repercussions for this sort of behavior here.

01:23:46.980 I mean, we're talking here about suspensions, expulsions here.

01:23:49.780 This is not okay.

01:23:51.040 I mean, just to, just to give one very clear example of something that is happening on these

01:23:54.980 campuses, you know, I saw on social media, this text went viral where a wife was describing

01:24:01.240 her husband going to 116th street in Morningside Heights to evacuate their Jewish freshman daughter

01:24:07.000 from campus.

01:24:08.460 And the wife described it as her husband getting there and barricading through these people 1.00

01:24:13.500 shouting, go back to Poland, you dirty Jew. 1.00

01:24:16.540 And she analogized it to refugees fleeing a war zone. 1.00

01:24:20.260 Columbia's university is roughly 20 to 25% Jewish.

01:24:23.280 It is in one of the largest Jewish population centers in the world in New York city.

01:24:26.920 And more to the point, this is Hitler youth Nazi stuff that we are looking at, Megan. 0.96

01:24:32.500 It is disgusting. 0.92

01:24:34.060 I look outside. 0.68

01:24:35.240 I cannot believe what is happening in this country.

01:24:37.760 Honestly, it's only gotten this bad recently too.

01:24:40.480 I'm a fairly young guy.

01:24:41.480 It was not this bad when I was on American university college campuses.

01:24:44.820 But I think at this point, all options are on the table.

01:24:47.540 Josh Hawley and Tom Conner calling for the national guard.

01:24:50.020 That seems to me totally, totally a good idea right now.

01:24:53.360 We're talking here about equal enforcement of civil rights.

01:24:56.480 These students' Title VI rights under the basic civil rights statutes in the 1960s are being

01:25:01.500 violated out in the open right now.

01:25:03.860 Order must be restored by any means necessary.

01:25:06.520 It is unlawful to discriminate against Jews because they're Jewish on college campuses or

01:25:11.460 elsewhere.

01:25:11.900 That's not lawful.

01:25:13.060 You cannot stop them from getting to class.

01:25:15.280 You cannot engage in an orchestrated campaign of harassment targeted at them.

01:25:19.460 That is outside the free speech protections.

01:25:21.840 But I do think we're into interesting territory now, Sarah, where you have Governor Abbott.

01:25:27.260 I'll read you his tweet.

01:25:28.700 I mean, I do like how Texas is like, don't mess with them.

01:25:30.880 They are hardcore.

01:25:31.660 I appreciate that.

01:25:32.520 And I know hats off.

01:25:34.140 But I can see how this goes too far.

01:25:36.840 He tweets out arrests being made right now and will continue until the crowd disperses.

01:25:42.160 These protesters belong in jail.

01:25:44.480 And basically the protests were the same as we've been seeing every police else.

01:25:47.600 Anti-Semitism will not be tolerated in Texas, period.

01:25:52.500 Well, I mean, it's America. 0.93

01:25:56.160 You're allowed to be an anti-Semite. 0.98

01:25:57.800 You're allowed to be a racist. 1.00

01:25:58.860 You're allowed to be a lot of bad things. 0.95

01:26:00.140 Like you can't stop it.

01:26:01.580 You just can't do something to someone in the targeted group that crosses a legal line.

01:26:06.320 And then he writes, students joining in hate-filled anti-Semitic protests at any public

01:26:11.380 college or university in Texas should be expelled.

01:26:15.140 So that's another thing.

01:26:17.600 If you're in the protest and it's considered hate-filled, you could be expelled.

01:26:23.200 I don't know.

01:26:23.940 We had a big debate about this yesterday on the show about like, I don't want you and

01:26:27.380 I getting expelled or our kids getting expelled because we won't say pronouns or we won't

01:26:31.120 say a man's a woman. 1.00

01:26:32.060 So we do, you know, we got to be careful.

01:26:33.540 I agree.

01:26:35.040 And I think that we need to clarify the language of what constitutes, you know, expelling someone

01:26:41.940 because of their conduct.

01:26:43.320 Obviously, these universities have every right to have some sort of a code of conduct that

01:26:46.940 these students need to live by and it needs to be doled out equally.

01:26:50.840 But what is that conduct?

01:26:53.120 Where is the line crossing?

01:26:54.820 Because obviously you have two separate issues.

01:26:57.120 You have the arrests and you have being expelled.

01:27:01.320 And I think that Governor Abbott needs to clarify his language on the idea that anti-Semitism

01:27:05.780 is not going to be tolerated in the state of Texas. 0.99

01:27:08.580 As you mentioned, Megan, people have the right to be a jerk in this country. 0.99

01:27:12.920 And you know what? 0.99

01:27:13.580 I'm glad when they show me who they really are so I can know to steer clear of them.

01:27:17.780 So what does that mean?

01:27:18.760 Anti-Semitism won't be tolerated in the state of Texas.

01:27:21.240 But what I find so fascinating is that we seem to be conflating protests with riots and

01:27:26.880 illegal acts.

01:27:27.800 And I think that that's what the real problem is, because you hear from all these protesters

01:27:30.740 that we were just trying to peacefully protest.

01:27:34.040 These peaceful protesters got shut down in the state of Texas.

01:27:36.900 And that just could not be further from the truth.

01:27:39.120 None of these protests that I've seen, I'll use air quotes, none of these protests that

01:27:42.920 I've seen have been peaceful.

01:27:44.660 I don't think that it's very peaceful to block people's right to travel freely, essentially

01:27:48.300 kidnapping them on the highway because you feel like it.

01:27:51.020 I don't think it's peaceful to threaten Jewish students and make them and harass them while

01:27:55.540 they're just trying to cross their campus.

01:27:57.260 And it certainly isn't peaceful to create an illegal encampment where they are not allowed

01:28:02.620 to do that on these campuses.

01:28:04.280 And so I think that we really need to look at this language and make sure that we're

01:28:08.840 not allowing them to use the term peacefully protesting when we've seen that these things

01:28:13.120 have been anything but.

01:28:14.280 I would encourage these universities to expel the people who are crossing the line, who are 1.00

01:28:20.940 threatening Jewish students, who are harassing them, and who are doing illegal acts.

01:28:25.800 But aside from that, I do agree with you, Megan, that the language that was used in Governor

01:28:30.280 Abbott's tweet, I think, needs to be carefully examined.

01:28:32.840 And I would encourage him, as the governor of my state that I live in, I would encourage

01:28:36.200 him to perhaps clarify what he meant by that, because it is a delicate line here.

01:28:42.760 And quite frankly, like I said before, I want people to show me who they are.

01:28:47.020 Yeah.

01:28:47.440 I mean, you can't like it.

01:28:48.360 And plus, if we get to a point where a governor can say, no bigots allowed in the state.

01:28:51.760 Right.

01:28:51.920 I mean, you guys know as well as I do.

01:28:53.440 That word gets used on everybody, anybody on the right side of the aisle anyway.

01:28:57.420 So it's like, where are we all going to go?

01:28:58.940 We can't all fit in Texas.

01:29:00.400 You know, like we're going to need to be able to stay where we are.

01:29:04.620 Having said all that, Josh, it's getting bad.

01:29:07.360 I mean, it's like they've clearly popped up at campuses across the country.

01:29:10.920 We've seen Yale.

01:29:11.660 We've seen NYU.

01:29:12.680 We've seen down in Texas.

01:29:15.260 We've seen Columbia, of course.

01:29:17.080 They tried it.

01:29:18.480 I'm going to start with the fun news, and then I'll get to the more serious.

01:29:21.480 They tried it at Princeton, where it lasted about as long as Trump's affair with Stormy

01:29:27.080 Daniels.

01:29:27.820 It was very quick.

01:29:30.000 It started, and it was over.

01:29:32.000 They set up their tents.

01:29:34.800 They were ready to go.

01:29:36.880 And then they got a stern talking to by some unknown person in the administration.

01:29:41.720 And literally within five minutes, they packed up their tents.

01:29:45.500 I'll show you the, well, take a look at SOT 43.

01:29:51.480 You're all in violation of university policy.

01:29:55.660 These tents must come down right now.

01:29:59.520 This is your first warning.

01:30:01.300 You get the gesture.

01:30:29.960 Well, based on that guy yelling at them, here's what happened within five minutes.

01:30:36.100 They're so tough at Princeton.

01:30:42.700 They're packing them up.

01:30:44.300 They're packing up every single tent orderly.

01:30:47.020 They're folding them.

01:30:48.640 They're still banging their drum.

01:30:50.280 Josh, you get it.

01:30:51.100 So that's Princeton.

01:30:53.540 This is the law and order campus.

01:30:55.040 I have to say, I would still hire one of them.

01:30:57.540 That's fine.

01:30:58.120 I understand you're on what I think is the wrong side, but you have a right to say that.

01:31:02.280 And you complied when told to get out.

01:31:04.680 Total chaos elsewhere at these other campuses.

01:31:09.040 Yeah, I mean, you know, like I'm saying, I mean, I just I cannot believe what I'm seeing.

01:31:13.500 I mean, I actually was down in the Florida Keys this weekend.

01:31:15.400 I live in the Miami, Florida area.

01:31:16.560 We were at a Jewish wedding.

01:31:18.000 It was a big Zionist wedding.

01:31:19.220 My friend is an Israeli and we were kind of waving the Israeli flag there.

01:31:22.300 And in a moment of darkness like this, I mean, having simchas, having joyous occasions like that,

01:31:26.560 I can't tell you, Megan, how important it is.

01:31:28.480 I mean, to just feel the love from our community there, because it's really bad.

01:31:32.260 And all of my conversations with, you know, my fellow Jewish Americans are echoing a similar

01:31:36.800 sentiment, which is, you know, is the earth really shifting under our feet?

01:31:40.720 You know, was the golden era of American Jewish life that existed for many decades after the

01:31:45.260 Holocaust? 0.83

01:31:46.000 Was that kind of a flash in the pan?

01:31:47.880 Was it kind of ultimately a result of kind of Western, perhaps even American guilt that

01:31:51.920 the Holocaust happened?

01:31:53.020 And the younger generations haven't met Holocaust survivors.

01:31:55.940 I mean, it's a whole crisis here.

01:31:57.360 The crisis in higher education has been brewing for a very long time.

01:32:00.080 Chris Rufo had a great book about it last summer, about the 1960s cultural Marxism.

01:32:04.320 You kind of then factor in a lot of unfortunate immigration trends.

01:32:07.920 We've imported a lot of people who simply do not share our values. 1.00

01:32:10.740 And it's just a very, very toxic brew, Megan, right now.

01:32:14.200 And, you know, like I said, there's only just so much that the Congress can do.

01:32:17.520 I like what Mike Johnson had to say at Columbia University yesterday.

01:32:20.500 But it ultimately is up to governors, to mayors, to officials like that, to work with law enforcement,

01:32:26.340 National Guard as necessary to, if necessary, secure the civil rights of all Americans.

01:32:31.100 That is literally what it is there for.

01:32:33.160 I'm happy to hear- 0.98

01:32:33.980 Just like they would do if the targets were black. 0.99

01:32:35.840 They would- 0.98

01:32:36.100 Exactly. 0.98

01:32:36.300 There would be no debate about this if the targets happen to be black. 0.88

01:32:39.680 I've got to end on a different note entirely because I saw you, Sarah, you posted about this.

01:32:45.360 And I had not seen this one, but I know this clinic that's doing this to humans, where there is a, quote,

01:32:52.240 non-binary patient, 27, who underwent what's called a Barbie doll operation to remove all of her sexual organs.

01:32:59.960 No genitals, no belly button. 0.61

01:33:03.780 This is a thing.

01:33:04.680 I've been telling folks about this at the so-called Crane Center for Transgender Surgery in Austin that has been dubbed Frankenstein's Lab. 0.60

01:33:14.240 We are getting closer and closer to actual dehumanization.

01:33:19.380 Yeah, we are.

01:33:20.040 And, again, that is in the state of Texas that this person came to in order to have those surgeries.

01:33:27.160 Look, I'm just so tired of playing, using the left's language, playing with the idea that we want to make this illegal for children because it's wrong,

01:33:35.460 and we know that you cannot turn into something that you were not born as.

01:33:39.760 I think that we need to stop having that conversation and start shifting it to there's no reason that we should allow mentally ill humans. 1.00

01:33:47.020 I don't care how old you are, if you are mentally ill and think that you should be chopping off your healthy body parts, 0.98

01:33:53.220 we should not even participate in that conversation as if that's a thing that we should allow mentally ill adults to do. 1.00

01:33:59.180 It should be all across the board.

01:34:00.980 This should be completely outlawed.

01:34:02.860 History will look back and judge us harshly for the way that the medical community prayed.

01:34:09.020 They're predators, Megan. 0.99

01:34:10.040 They're preying on vulnerable people because they know that they will become lifelong cash cows, and it's just disgusting. 0.88

01:34:17.120 It's so true, Josh.

01:34:19.400 She's exactly right.

01:34:20.660 These people are not well.

01:34:22.140 This is a 27-year-old woman who had a total hysterectomy, got rid of, I don't know, there's like some hole that's left for urination, nothing else, and everything else is gone. 0.85

01:34:32.280 And the first rule of medicine is do no harm.

01:34:36.360 That's right.

01:34:37.200 So, you know, Megan, you're a lawyer.

01:34:38.740 You'll appreciate this.

01:34:39.620 I noticed something very, very interesting at the Supreme Court oral argument yesterday.

01:34:44.320 So yesterday, I'm going to relate back to the transgender issue, I promise. 0.69

01:34:47.320 But yesterday was the Idaho abortion law argument and basically whether there is federal preemption for medically necessary emergency abortions that would override Idaho's nearly complete ban on abortions.

01:34:58.740 And Justice Alito got the Solicitor General of the United States, Liz Proligar, to make what I thought was a shocking concession.

01:35:06.440 I saw Roger Severino of the Heritage Foundation tweeting about it.

01:35:08.860 That's how I saw it.

01:35:10.300 Alito basically asked the Solicitor General of the United States, is a mentally health-induced abortion ever truly medically necessary?

01:35:17.980 And the Solicitor General said that it's an issue of brain chemistry.

01:35:22.440 I guess that was her way of describing mental issues, but not a physical issue.

01:35:27.220 So the takeaway from that is, okay, well, what about gender dysphoria?

01:35:31.040 Is that an issue of brain chemistry and not actually a physical issue demanding that we go ahead down below and chop off Mr. Winky Wink or do this Barbie so-called gender-affirming care that you're referring to?

01:35:42.080 I thought that was a shocking concession from a Democratic Department of Justice with potentially very serious long-term ramifications if the right side of the legal aisle is willing to pick up that argument and run with it.

01:35:53.340 And I'll just make one final point really briefly here.

01:35:55.720 You know, this whole thing about chemical castration for minors, this is one issue where America is way to the left of even the Europeans.

01:36:03.740 So Scotland, just like a week and a half, two weeks ago, said that they are not going to have the NHS, the public taxpayer-funded health insurance agency over there.

01:36:12.080 They are not going to have NHS involved in taxpayer subsidization of chemical castration for minors.

01:36:17.360 England had said that already earlier last year.

01:36:19.640 The UK is actually way to the right.

01:36:22.180 Scandinavian, Nordic countries as well.

01:36:23.960 America is a wild, wild west.

01:36:25.980 So I think you take these factors combined, it continues to be what I say is a winning issue for the American right if we just pick it up and run with it.

01:36:32.120 I'll give you the last word on it, Sarah.

01:36:35.160 Yeah, I totally agree with Josh.

01:36:36.860 I think the way through is that all of these detransitioners are going to be the answer. 1.00

01:36:41.080 They need to sue the hell out of all of these hospitals that are doing this irreversible damage to them.

01:36:47.160 And you won't change the minds and the hearts of these evil doctors, but what you will do is scare them into thinking they might go bankrupt.

01:36:53.600 And I think that that's the only way out of this.

01:36:55.740 That's exactly right.

01:36:56.800 Scare them, too, with an inch of their insurance policy, and they will go away.

01:37:00.540 We have one coming on next week, a detransitioner, to tell their story. 1.00

01:37:04.220 Josh, Sarah, thank you both so much.

01:37:06.060 Great to see you.

01:37:07.160 And thanks to all of you for joining me today.

01:37:08.820 I'm going to be back with you on Monday.

01:37:11.120 I have tomorrow off with Michael Knowles.

01:37:13.340 Have a great weekend.

01:37:17.380 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:37:19.440 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:37:22.000 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:37:30.540 You're going to be back with Michael Knowles.

01:37:32.160 Thanks, guys.

01:37:32.540 Thanks, mate.

01:37:34.180 Finally, we're going to go ahead.

01:37:35.320 We're all viney.

01:37:36.860 Time to break with Michael Knowles.

01:37:38.300 We're now living now.

01:37:39.540 We're waiting until the Lord has nailed it.

01:37:41.080 Okay.

01:37:42.880 Thanks to everybody.

01:37:43.800 We're going to be back to you on Monday.

01:37:44.440 Thanks a lot of you.

01:37:45.020 Thanks.

01:37:45.720 We'll be back to you on Monday.

01:37:47.200 Thanks a lot.

01:37:48.260 You're back to me today.

01:37:50.420 Bye-bye.

01:37:51.340 Thanks a lot.

01:37:52.240 Thanks a lot of you.

01:37:53.720 Thanks a lot of you.

01:37:55.400 Thanks a lot of you.

The Megyn Kelly Show - April 25, 2024

Petty Trump Prosecution, Presidential Immunity Question, and Biden's Pause Gaffe, with Piers Morgan, Harmeet Dhillon, Sara Gonzales and Josh Hammer ｜ Ep. 776

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