The Megyn Kelly Show - Platner Allegation EXPOSES the Media, and the Tyler Robinson Defense REVEALED, with Bevan, Halperin, Aronberg, Holloway, Geragos, Eiglarsh, and Spilbor ｜ Ep. 1354

00:00:00.000 Frozen lasagna, medium power, 15 minutes.

00:00:06.360 Sounds like Ojo time.

00:00:08.940 Let's play.

00:00:10.000 Feel the fun with PlayOjo, the online casino with all the latest slots and live casino games.

00:00:13.700 What you win is yours to keep.

00:00:15.240 No wagering requirements, instant payouts, and no minimum withdrawals.

00:00:18.120 Hey, I just won!

00:00:19.420 Woohoo!

00:00:19.940 Feel the fun, PlayOjo.

00:00:22.260 Honey, forget about lasagna.

00:00:23.520 Let's celebrate.

00:00:24.400 19 plus Ontario only.

00:00:25.240 Please play responsibly.

00:00:25.980 Concerned about your gambling or that of someone close to you?

00:00:27.220 Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connexontario.ca.

00:00:30.520 All right, full-time thoughts.

00:00:31.980 Craig, who stood out?

00:00:33.000 Brazil's lime cheesecake started bright, didn't let up.

00:00:35.500 Nah, for me, Italian cappuccino was the standout in the box.

00:00:38.560 But if we're talking decadent performance, that's all France.

00:00:41.400 Chocolate creme brulee had the richest finishes.

00:00:43.800 Canadian fireworks really showed up big too.

00:00:45.780 And Mexico's caramel churro ice cap.

00:00:48.180 Gave me chills.

00:00:49.300 We are, of course, talking about Tim's taste of the Globe Liner.

00:00:52.180 New globally inspired Timbits and ice cap flavors

00:00:54.580 available at Tim Hortons for a limited time.

00:00:56.540 picks them up today. And while you're at it, check out Footy Prime Daily.

00:01:00.500 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:12.180 Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. It's day two of the

00:01:16.520 Tyler Robinson preliminary hearing in Provo, Utah, where prosecutors are seeking to persuade a judge

00:01:22.120 that there is probable cause to believe that Tyler Robinson assassinated Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley

00:01:28.880 University on September 10th of last year. We will have the latest in just a moment. We've been

00:01:33.580 watching it. It's been on for the past hour. We are streaming it on our YouTube channel. For those

00:01:38.320 of you who would like to follow along, youtube.com slash Megan Kelly in its entirety. And we are

00:01:44.480 going to be doing substantive coverage of what happened yesterday and this morning in about 20

00:01:50.600 minutes or so. I'm going to start with a different story here on our show. But we've got to bring you

00:01:56.100 more about this item that was in our AM Update podcast this morning. Graham Plattner, this whole

00:02:03.440 thing is imploding. His campaign is imploding. He was the darling of the Democrat Party. He easily

00:02:09.960 won the primary to take on Republican Susan Collins in the main Senate race. And Republicans

00:02:14.800 have been very worried about this race it's extremely tight extremely tight and susan collins 0.95

00:02:21.460 is you know she's a stalwart she always seems to manage to pull out these contests they like her

00:02:27.800 in maine because she's moderate and so are they uh including the republicans but this guy's sort

00:02:34.180 of an insurgent candidate he's he's trumpy in the way that he's outside the mainstream he doesn't

00:02:41.260 look like the other candidates he doesn't talk like them he he's more of a populist though a

00:02:48.640 leftist populist whereas trump was more of a republican populist and he has a very very good

00:02:56.380 chance of unseating her or did until recently i mean he's been again kind of like trump like

00:03:04.040 teflon he surrounded uh he survived the scandals like that surrounding his nazi tattoo he had made

00:03:13.080 several controversial comments on reddit prior to running allegedly sexted with i mean we were told

00:03:20.440 about a dozen women who were not his wife that the campaign said no more than six okay okay but while

00:03:27.900 he was married and he only got married in 2023. So this is not ancient history and generally

00:03:35.460 mistreating his previous romantic partners. There was a big New York Times expose on how

00:03:42.400 those romantic interludes went beyond, you know, bad romances to where one woman, Lindsay Fifield,

00:03:51.280 who's a conservative said she had been locked in a room by him she'd been she had her arm twisted

00:03:59.120 in a way that was painful and forceful and some other allegations that came out which were quickly

00:04:04.500 dismissed by most Democrats who didn't really care and now he's facing allegations of sexual

00:04:11.420 assault from a woman he once dated and I have to say just having read the allegations she's 0.68

00:04:16.700 alleging that he raped her. There's really no distinction. I don't know why they're not using

00:04:21.600 the R word. And she is talking about it in a way that's a little odd. You know, like when asked,

00:04:28.500 did you say no? She had language like, you know, I used language of non-consent. She's got a sort 0.85

00:04:36.760 of ethereal way of addressing the issue of consent. But it seems clear if you read her full

00:04:45.060 comments and then listened to her on with Jake Tapper yesterday. She, she's saying consent was

00:04:51.820 not there and that that was communicated. Um, and it's causing an avalanche of defectors now

00:04:58.460 from Graham Plattner. I mean, I think everyone, but Bernie Sanders has abandoned him now just

00:05:04.440 about all the people like who had endorsed him and who were standing by him. Even my old pal

00:05:09.520 crystal ball, who I really like, she's on the opposite side of the aisle, uh, versus yours

00:05:14.340 truly, but she's awesome. She's smart. We go way back. She'd been standing by Graham Plattner. 0.99

00:05:20.200 She really likes that populist leftist thing. And she today said, yeah, he's got, he's got to drop

00:05:25.120 out. Uh, political first reporting yesterday that 41 year old Maine resident, Jenny Razincott is the 0.97

00:05:31.940 woman alleging Plattner forced her to have sex with him while they were in a relationship, but 0.84

00:05:37.200 she did not want to have sex with him. He's fall down drunk. She had told him not to come over. 0.56

00:05:40.580 It was one of those situations. And he he did. He came over. He followed her around the apartment, got her into her bed in her bedroom and forced himself on her.

00:05:52.600 That's what she said. She also sat down, as I mentioned, with CNN yesterday and said this to Jake Tapper.

00:05:59.700 This has obviously been very difficult for you to talk about for five years.

00:06:04.580 and even when you're telling the story

00:06:09.380 you don't

00:06:11.520 use the word

00:06:12.320 so let me just be

00:06:14.120 and I apologize

00:06:16.040 let me be as

00:06:18.260 direct as I can

00:06:21.320 did 1.00

00:06:23.460 Graham Planner rape you 0.97

00:06:24.940 by definition yes 0.99

00:06:27.280 absolutely

00:06:29.120 because he had

00:06:31.260 non-consensual sex with you 0.86

00:06:32.720 forced himself on you 0.90

00:06:35.080 after you had told him no

00:06:38.380 and fought him off

00:06:39.580 he violated multiple layers of consent

00:06:42.800 that night

00:06:43.740 by coming into my home

00:06:45.420 when I asked him not to

00:06:47.580 and by advancing on me

00:06:50.220 when I told him not to

00:06:52.320 and furthermore

00:06:54.280 another incident that I had told him not to do

00:06:56.740 with protection

00:06:58.740 yeah

00:06:59.160 so yeah

00:07:01.820 by the way that my nervous system reacted to this experience. Absolutely.

00:07:08.280 Plattner's calling any accusation of non-consensual behavior, quote, categorically false.

00:07:13.980 That's what he said when the New York Times piece hit two. But yesterday, as this news

00:07:18.100 was breaking, we got news that he was canceling campaign events. And then he released a statement

00:07:24.820 about how he is contemplating his political future. The most important part of this statement

00:07:30.620 is the last sentence. Listen here. Any accusation of non-consensual behavior is categorically false.

00:07:38.320 Over the last 10 months, I have been deeply humbled by the faith Mainers have put in me.

00:07:43.880 You have welcomed me into your homes, into your places of work, into your restaurants, 1.00

00:07:48.880 into your houses of worship. You have shown that a different kind of politics,

00:07:53.700 one that puts the interests of people over corporations, is not just possible, but is

00:07:59.400 inevitable. So, regardless of the inaccuracy of the reporting, but mindful of the political

00:08:05.080 reality it will inflict, we are taking the time to reflect on the best path forward for the state

00:08:10.340 that I love, the people that I love, the movement I belong to, and the goal of defeating Susan Collins.

00:08:18.440 Taking time to reflect on the path forward is classic language for we're out. He didn't say

00:08:27.060 were out. He may just be considering getting out. There hasn't been an announcement that he's out,

00:08:31.740 but taking time to consider the path forward is not good. If you're saying that as a candidate

00:08:37.100 for office, you're in a lot of trouble. Now, the deadline for him actually to bail for the

00:08:43.840 Democrats to replace him as well on the ballot is July 13th. Saturday's the 11th because it's my

00:08:49.380 mom's 85th birthday. And then so, yeah, the 12th is Monday. Sorry, 13th is Monday. And so that is

00:08:58.660 the deadline by which Democrats must replace him on the ballot if they wish to replace him on the

00:09:04.400 ballot. And many, as I said, prominent Democrats are calling for him to drop out right now with

00:09:09.820 main scene as a key opportunity to flip a Senate seat. They see Susan Collins is vulnerable.

00:09:15.180 One person who has not yet commented is Senator Bernie Sanders, who previously endorsed

00:09:19.780 Plattner.

00:09:20.640 He's probably the biggest power player in making Plattner, and the loss of his endorsement

00:09:26.820 would be devastating.

00:09:29.020 Joining me now to break it all down, this scandal and the pain it's causing within the

00:09:35.040 Democratic Party are two of the best.

00:09:36.860 Tom Bevin, who's co-founder and president of Real Clear Politics and co-host of the

00:09:41.600 Real Clear Politics show on SiriusXM right here on the MK channel. And our pal, Mark Halperin,

00:09:47.260 who is host of Next Up on the MK Media Podcast Network, which also airs on the MK channel on

00:09:53.260 SiriusXM. When you sign your insurance policy for some brokers, that's the finish line, handshake,

00:09:59.920 they get their commission, and then they're kind of done with you. You may not hear from them again

00:10:03.700 until it's time for renewal, in which case, once again, they're your best friend. That's annoying.

00:10:07.400 But your business runs all year, and so do the gaps and the risk, and things happen.

00:10:12.580 And this is why I want to tell you about SuperSure.

00:10:14.940 If your company has more than 25 employees, whether you're the owner, the CFO, or the

00:10:19.280 HR manager, it can be too complex to just buy a policy online.

00:10:23.800 SuperSure is the super agency built just for you.

00:10:27.300 It's licensed in every state for your business insurance and employee benefits, with year-round

00:10:32.340 support for you and your team.

00:10:33.860 at supersure.com you can access tools like fine print facts which translates your current policy

00:10:39.800 into plain english so you see what's covered and what's not plus a business value calculator so

00:10:45.220 that you can estimate what your business is worth and know what actually needs protecting

00:10:49.900 go to supersure.com slash megan one super agency one powerful platform all your policies in one

00:10:57.000 place supersure.com slash megan paid for by supersure insurance agency llc a licensed

00:11:03.000 Insurance Agency. Guys, welcome. What a hot mess, Mark Halperin. Put it in perspective for us.

00:11:10.300 Well, what matters, of course, in the end, besides the drama of just the Maine race,

00:11:14.780 is what this does to impact the chance the Democrats can control the Senate after the

00:11:19.520 midterms. If they can't win Maine, the math becomes very difficult for them. This was their

00:11:24.200 in one or two of their top pickup opportunities. In terms of Plattner, I think this raises real

00:11:30.520 questions for the Democratic Party about credibility and honesty and fidelity to

00:11:35.400 principle. And it also raises questions in terms of the timing of whether they actually will end

00:11:41.380 up with a weaker candidate, as flawed as Plattner was. If you look at the people they might pick,

00:11:45.920 they may be decreasing their chances of winning the seat as opposed to enhancing their chances.

00:11:52.400 What do you make of it, Tom? Because this is not only the implosion of a candidate,

00:11:56.100 it's also a serious black eye for the press because the New York Times had this woman

00:12:05.720 that she was in their initial piece but not with this story and it looks like if you're going to

00:12:13.800 be really charitable to the New York Times she didn't tell them the full story she's out she's

00:12:18.260 coming out now saying I didn't tell the full story then because I wasn't ready but they had

00:12:23.100 this bird in hand and apparently weren't interested enough to coax this out of her or did coax it out

00:12:29.540 of her and weren't interested in coaxing it such that they could get it in print, which, as you

00:12:35.560 know, is another layer for any good reporter. And now another woman, that woman, Lindsay Fifield, 0.64

00:12:41.180 the conservative who was featured in The New York Times, is coming out now and ripping The Times a

00:12:46.660 new one saying your piece wound up being a cover up. It was it was designed to run cover for him.

00:12:55.220 It was not designed to elicit the truth. And it's no accident that you failed to and that it took

00:13:02.180 Politico a couple of weeks later to actually print what happened to this other woman.

00:13:07.540 Yeah, I mean, this is one of the things all the Graham Plattner supporters are up in arms. I think

00:13:12.200 the media has has just done a hit job, you know, based on the establishment backing. Right. And

00:13:20.320 then folks on the right are saying, look, you saw people like Jody Cantor going on CNN and

00:13:26.940 defending Plattner in the face of that initial Times article. I mean, you have all of the you

00:13:32.660 had the media and the Democrats. They were certainly they were willing to overlook all of

00:13:36.180 these things the tattoo the reddit post the you know port-a-potty masturbation thing i mean all 0.73

00:13:42.700 of this crazy stuff including these allegations about him being not just sort of a bad boyfriend 0.66

00:13:47.720 but actually putting his hands on women and roqana and everybody was willing to sort of look past

00:13:54.160 that because they were able to say look this is a conservative woman they can't say that anymore

00:13:58.560 and obviously uh now now some some line has been crossed here that that even democrats as you

00:14:04.800 mentioned, pretty much everybody except for Bernie Sanders at this point has called on Plattner to

00:14:09.360 get out of the race. And so I think he is. What's interesting about what Mark just said, it's going

00:14:13.940 to be fascinating to watch this play out because if you look at the betting markets, the odds of

00:14:19.180 Democrats winning that seat actually popped up. They might end up because Plattner was, he had

00:14:24.640 so much baggage, but he also had this enthusiasm among the sort of left-wing base. And if they put

00:14:31.280 somebody in that seat, if Democrats end up picking someone and putting someone in that seat

00:14:35.000 who doesn't have that support, the party's going to be split in half heading into the general

00:14:40.080 election, which is not a good place to be. Here is that Jody Cantor soundbite. She's not the woman

00:14:47.180 who wrote the New York Times article on Plattner, but she is responsible, she and Megan Toohey,

00:14:53.400 for the New York Times Me Too coverage. They're the ones who broke all the big stories, Harvey

00:14:58.020 Weinstein, etc. And this is Jody Cantor talking about The Times' coverage on this issue.

00:15:04.600 Well, let's talk about what they may or may not be willing to overlook. The accusations against

00:15:10.740 Graham Plattner are not classic Me Too accusations. They're not about a boss and a young female

00:15:18.120 employee being subjected to sexual advances. They were mostly made in the context of consensual

00:15:27.140 relationships there are these like very sensational uh texts about sex there are allegations from

00:15:33.940 former girlfriends that are not the way my colleagues reported them were not like classic

00:15:38.880 abuse allegations they were mostly like being his boyfriend gave me a view into him and i did not

00:15:47.720 like what i saw his character was scary he had this nazi tattoo etc there was one allegation of

00:15:54.780 crossing a line physically, but I think that means

00:15:58.540 that these are pretty different accusations

00:16:01.300 than say the ones that President Trump faced.

00:16:04.700 And of course, in the Access Hollywood tape,

00:16:06.820 President Trump bragged about grabbing women

00:16:11.020 against their will.

00:16:12.060 And so I think it speaks to the kind of confusion

00:16:15.100 of the long post-MeToo moment in which

00:16:19.100 like gender-related accusations get bundled together,

00:16:22.720 but they're actually very different.

00:16:25.220 Very different, very different, Mark, from Trump.

00:16:27.740 I'm breathless listening to that.

00:16:29.440 If you couple that with what I can only see as a catch-and-kill attempt by writing the original story, coupled with Lindsay's very well-documented Twitter posts about how the Times reported this story in a way that seemingly intended to downplay the damage it would do to Graham Plattner.

00:16:47.520 There should be New York Times employees, if it passed with prologue for them, they should be out in front of 8th Avenue protesting their own paper.

00:16:58.900 They should be calling for a thorough investigation of how such a thing could happen because this is, by their standards,

00:17:07.920 it's a massive failure to protect the rights of victims, accused, accusers.

00:17:14.560 And and I just it's just mind boggling to me that The New York Times can can operate with impunity and no accountability to what seems clear to be an attempt to, as they often do, favor one party over the other.

00:17:27.940 it was it was a catch and kill that's how it i mean the the irony right that's that's the name

00:17:32.740 of ronan farrell's book on um what the national inquirer did to protect well trump and harvey

00:17:40.920 winestream and and some others and not just the national inquirer but that he talked about that

00:17:45.160 practice of catching and then killing the story you get it and then you kill it to protect the

00:17:50.600 subject of it and the new york times seems to have clearly done this in the case of graham platner

00:17:55.960 And under the auspices of an expose. Right. But now we know, Tom, that the expose was very limited, given what Lindsay Fifield had told them, because she's ripping them to high heavens and has been since that piece broke.

00:18:10.480 and given what we now know this jennifer rassacott had to tell that she had this and look

00:18:18.280 i've i've probably interviewed more me too victims than jody canter and megan tooey

00:18:24.460 um i know these women very well not the ones in this story but i women who have these stories

00:18:29.340 and i guarantee you the times knew rassacott's story i guarantee there's no way rassacott did

00:18:35.020 not tell the two women who interviewed her the full story. She she probably just said, I'm not

00:18:40.700 I'm not ready to go there yet. Like this. I only want you to print the following in The New York

00:18:45.480 Times. That's my guess. She's saying publicly now I wasn't ready to tell the full story publicly

00:18:51.700 when I spoke with The Times. And I really thought they had Lindsay and they had another girl,

00:18:55.740 so they didn't really need me. But my point is simply, if you know in your head that this is

00:19:01.840 what the full allegation is, your piece sounds different. You know, I mean, you don't go lightly

00:19:07.500 on him. You've got somebody who says he raped me, who's just too scared to say it. So if that's the

00:19:14.340 case, I'd love to hear from this Jennifer Roscott on whether she actually did tell the full story

00:19:18.380 to the Times and just didn't give permission to print it because then they are truly villainous.

00:19:24.140 Then those women wrote that catch and kill knowing that he had a credible allegation of 1.00

00:19:30.520 rape against him and still in a way to catch and kill it. Can I just read to you, Tommy, 0.94

00:19:36.100 you mentioned this, this Lindsey Fyfelder, Mark, you did. She's she had this devastating post on

00:19:43.040 X yesterday, and I read it in part. She she's mad about what they've done to her and what they're

00:19:49.160 doing now in general. I actually understand why Democrat leaders don't take our stories serious

00:19:54.260 or didn't take our stories seriously when the Times reported them in June, but are now. It was

00:19:59.100 by design. The line most shared from the piece was the claim that the Times, quote, could not

00:20:04.680 corroborate my story despite talking to two of my friends. Just FYI for listening audience,

00:20:10.020 Lindsay's story included the following three paragraphs. Mr. Plattner could be rough with her, 0.85

00:20:16.500 Ms. Feithfield said, particularly when they were drinking, leaving her shaken and sometimes afraid.

00:20:22.320 In the interviews, Ms. Feithfield grappled with how to process her experiences. She was quick to

00:20:27.680 you know, that he never hit me, never punched me. But she said he regularly grabbed her by the

00:20:32.240 shoulders, sometimes hard enough to leave marks, and on one occasion, yanked her out of a cab by

00:20:37.740 her wrist after an argument when she wanted to stay in the car. During one argument, she recalled,

00:20:44.240 he twisted her arm behind her back, shoved her into a bedroom, held the door closed from the

00:20:50.240 other side so she couldn't get out, telling her to remain there until she was calm. Eventually,

00:20:54.480 Miss Fifield said she fell asleep and left the next morning. It hurt, she said. It didn't cause

00:20:59.980 an injury. It didn't break my arm. So they were quick to make sure they printed Fifield's down

00:21:07.180 playing of the incident. Right. Without reporting, for example, that's kidnapping. If it's true what

00:21:13.220 he what he did to Fifield, it's kidnapping under the law, not to mention assault. That is it's a

00:21:18.680 battery an unwanted touching is a battery in any event back to five fields x post she says um okay

00:21:24.920 they were quick to print up point out that they could not corroborate my story despite talking

00:21:28.660 to two of my friends i gave them contact info for five friends they called the two who i clarified

00:21:35.060 would not know about the abuse but would be able to affirm our relationship timeline events etc

00:21:40.300 they simply did not call the other three i also gave them the names of all my former roommates

00:21:46.180 who remembered him stalking our row house,

00:21:49.460 which was about five houses down from his

00:21:51.480 and waiting for me to return.

00:21:53.660 By the way, that's very relevant now

00:21:55.000 because this Jennifer Rassacott is saying

00:21:57.140 he broke into her home and was lying in wait for her.

00:22:01.480 Lindsay continues,

00:22:02.960 I gave them screenshots of messages

00:22:04.680 between these roommates and I discussing it, she says.

00:22:08.800 I gave the names of the other men I dated

00:22:11.400 who might've remembered him following us around the hill

00:22:13.820 and showing up on my stoop

00:22:15.300 after we walked home from dates to confront us, I gave them emails to my landlord urgently ending

00:22:20.840 my lease and moving to an apartment across town and diary entries talking about it, all time

00:22:25.260 marked. I told them that during premarital counseling, I had spoken to my ex-fiance about

00:22:30.440 the abuse because I had to explain to him why I reacted with such terror anytime he lost his

00:22:35.980 temper. They said, oh no, we don't need to bother him or my priest. Besides, I had written about it

00:22:42.300 in my diary in detail, they reassured me. As the weeks dragged down, I stopped trying to give them

00:22:48.120 evidence because the amount I had already given them seemed to overwhelm them, and I thought it

00:22:52.600 meant they clearly had more than enough to verify my every claim. My friends might not have known

00:22:56.580 the details of the abuse, but they affirmed that, yes, I had told them he was abusive long before he

00:23:00.440 ran for Senate. Besides, they assured me my part in their reporting would be small. She wound up

00:23:05.800 being the poster girl for the whole piece. I thought my details would only serve to affirm

00:23:09.500 jenny and the other anonymous woman jenny and i having never met or spoken both shared with these

00:23:15.140 reporters terrifyingly similar details of intimate partner violence coercive control and cycles of

00:23:20.440 abuse slash love bombing the third unnamed woman in the story did as well but tell me again how

00:23:25.720 they quote could not corroborate tom that is devastating well it's even more insidious than 0.98

00:23:31.700 that because the difference between the two is that lindsey fivefield was a republican was a

00:23:38.000 conservative and this Jenny Rassica was a liberal. I mean, she basically said, look, I agree with

00:23:43.380 Graham Plattner's policies, but I don't like him as a person. And so when the New York Times did

00:23:48.500 that and made Lindsay the feature and focus of that story, that allowed all these Democrats and

00:23:55.000 everybody else in the media to dismiss it as the Plattner campaign came out and said, look,

00:23:58.940 this is just a disgruntled, you know, this is a hatchet job from the right wing, the MAGA crowd,

00:24:03.240 all of that if they had reported the fact that there were also credible allegations from from

00:24:08.620 another woman who who was from the other side of the aisle it would have been much much harder for

00:24:13.060 them to to play that game and do it that way and that's why i think a lot of democrats now are

00:24:18.180 looking at this and they've that's the difference between the two cases megan i i went it's such a

00:24:23.720 good point sorry i went and reread the new york times story yesterday and the whole thing is so

00:24:27.920 insidious not just as lindsey points out the things they didn't include but just based on

00:24:32.820 what they included. This is the lead they wrote. This is literally the lead of a story about

00:24:37.580 accusations, as you said, of serious accusations. On Tuesday evening, after a whirlwind day in

00:24:42.880 Washington, Graham Plattner, the Democratic nominee for Senate in Maine, rushed home.

00:24:47.840 Rumors were spreading from Portland to the Potomac. It's like a featurey lead about how

00:24:52.000 Plattner is dealing with the accusations. I rewrote the lead just based on what they put

00:24:55.880 in the piece, not the stuff that they buried. This would have been my lead. Democratic Senator

00:25:00.200 grand planner is facing allegations that he physically assaulted and held captive a former

00:25:05.080 girlfriend during a volatile relationship according to a new york times investigation

00:25:09.160 that's the lead and the story and the story is written is filled with quotes from oh other

00:25:16.420 girlfriends really liked him said he was a really nice guy can you imagine them inserting that in

00:25:20.480 the story about donald trump this this is right this is this is such a scandal this piece and and

00:25:27.900 And I can see why Lindsay feels so betrayed by cooperating with them.

00:25:32.720 And I question why she did, because it was clear based on her account of how they treated it, they were not trying to write the real story.

00:25:41.160 It's just phenomenal that they tried to get away with this.

00:25:44.280 And they would have, potentially, had it not been for someone else deciding that she needed to come forward.

00:25:51.460 Yeah. 1.00

00:25:51.860 I mean, to quote one of my mom's favorite movies, Animal House, you fucked up. 1.00

00:25:56.520 You trusted us. 0.99

00:25:57.240 That's what that's that's what the New York Times is saying to Lindsay. Right. It's like, too bad you took a risk. You never should have done that. But it is infuriating. And in a way, I mean, not in a way, in fact, Tom, it backfired because the Democrats could have had the truth about Graham Plattner.

00:26:14.400 He denies it. It may or may not be true. OK, I must say that for the record. But they could have had this story in full about Graham Plattner weeks ago in much more time before the election to get another candidate in there to clearly and easily get him off the ballot before that July 13th deadline.

00:26:33.260 but they decided to play the game of delusion and dilution and now here we are with less than a week

00:26:41.240 to go before his name has to come off that ballot or stay on there for the general election and he's

00:26:47.060 just considering the path forward not agreeing to step down yeah i mean as if the nazi tattoo

00:26:53.120 wasn't enough like they could have gotten rid of this guy like a year ago months ago months ago

00:26:58.140 right? And all of the other, the Reddit posts and all that stuff. I mean, it is astonishing

00:27:02.940 for all of the people who live in Maine that the Democrats decided to get behind this guy

00:27:10.400 and hitch their wagon and their credibility to this guy and then stick with him through all of

00:27:15.560 these things. It has been remarkable to see. And now it is a problem. They are going to pay a price

00:27:23.420 for it, not just in Maine, but for all the other races. And you had El Syed endorsed him in 0.92

00:27:27.740 Michigan. He's now distancing himself. The only person, the most prominent Democrat who did not

00:27:34.620 endorse him, interestingly, was AOC. She did not get behind this guy. And I find that kind of

00:27:41.180 interesting. But as you said, Bernie's been all in, has been up there campaigning for him even

00:27:46.680 after that New York Times piece came out. He hasn't said anything yet. And so, look, I think

00:27:52.620 he has to get out i don't know i guess there's a slim chance that he could he could try and ride

00:27:57.740 this thing out but it looks like pulling trump well yeah exactly we all thought trump was going

00:28:03.160 to drop out after the access hollywood tape and he came out double barreled it and said f off no

00:28:09.780 locker room talk i'm in i saw mika brzezinski sort of grilling adam wren the politico reporter about

00:28:15.780 now now there's no there's no police report right there's no you know like what documentation do

00:28:22.100 you have like do you have the dms i know i mean theoretically i don't remember her asking any of

00:28:26.880 that about the trump accusers right she definitely doesn't look like she's believing all women um but

00:28:32.540 i guess theoretically he could say look you know this is a he said she said situation i say it

00:28:37.340 doesn't happen she said it did and he could try and go that route but it looks like the momentum

00:28:41.900 is is swinging pretty heavily against him it would be hard for him to i think to to ride it out at

00:28:46.240 this point i think sanders may have called for him to get out oh did he just now just now i think

00:28:51.680 I've seen reports on that, but let's see.

00:28:54.640 Wait, while you check that, let's play a little of that Morning Joe exchange you just referenced, Tom Bevin.

00:28:59.180 Here it is, 4B.

00:29:00.520 Correct me if I'm wrong.

00:29:01.780 And there's not a legal case playing out here for due process to see itself through.

00:29:07.320 So my question to you, given the very high standards political has before they write something like this and publish it,

00:29:16.400 what aspects of this story brought it to the level of publishable?

00:29:21.680 Yeah, you're correct here, Mika. There is no police report in this case. We spent a lot of

00:29:29.660 time talking to Jenny, asking her for cooperating evidence. Were you able to see the interactions

00:29:36.640 between Graham Plattner and this alleged victim? Did you actually physically see them? Did she

00:29:42.160 produce them for you? She attempted to uncover them, but was unable to.

00:29:51.680 Willie. She was Jenny in that New York Times piece. She appeared in the piece a few weeks

00:29:58.560 ago. So what's your sense of why she decided she wanted to go into more detail with you at this

00:30:03.940 point? Yeah, Willie. She was frustrated with how that article landed. Yeah, you're right, Mark.

00:30:12.900 I'm seeing it, too. It broke six minutes ago. Senator Bernie Sanders on the main U.S. Senate

00:30:17.020 race. Quote, I have spoken with Graham Plattner about the best path forward for Maine in light

00:30:21.280 with these very serious allegations, I have recommended that he step aside. So does that,

00:30:29.280 is that, is that it, Mark? When you have Sanders actually join the chorus? Yeah, it's pretty big

00:30:34.400 deal. Fellow New Englander, leader of the movement, as pointed out, just one of his major backers. So

00:30:40.180 look, a planner can look at the Donald Trump and Bill Clinton examples and say, if I fight and win,

00:30:47.520 I go for broke and I'm a U.S. senator and I can survive. If I get out, I'm probably done as a as a not just a political figure in Maine, but as a member of polite society in Maine.

00:30:58.400 But no financial support, no backing of Sanders. I thought he had close to no chance to go on, as Tom said.

00:31:06.100 But now I think it's now I think it's probably literally no chance.

00:31:10.140 Because we already saw that he was losing his funding, the National Democratic Senatorial Campaign, I think it was, or one of those formal fundraising groups already said we're out.

00:31:22.760 All the other supporters have said we're out.

00:31:24.780 As I said, even sort of the grassroots, more podcasty type influencers are saying we're out.

00:31:30.240 And now you have Sanders saying we're out.

00:31:31.720 I would say if you did a poll in Maine right now in the wake of the allegations, I think he'd be within five points of Collins.

00:31:39.300 I did a focus group with Maine voters and they just don't care.

00:31:42.520 No, I agree.

00:31:43.720 I agree.

00:31:44.280 I agree.

00:31:44.720 Which is why that's on the other side of the ledger.

00:31:47.520 If you're Graham Plattner and deciding what do you do here.

00:31:51.480 But the only other guy they're talking about so far, at least, is this Troy Jackson, who's a former state senator in Maine.

00:31:59.280 He lost the Democratic primary last month for Maine governor.

00:32:03.520 And he's been floated as somebody who could succeed Plattner.

00:32:06.900 Reading here from the Washington Examiner.

00:32:08.480 He called for Plattner to drop out, saying, I'm the best person to replace him.

00:32:13.360 However, OK, however, guys, here's what Progressive Victory just posted.

00:32:22.100 We began asking our contacts on the ground in Maine about Troy Jackson earlier today after seeing many suggestions that he should replace Plattner.

00:32:29.680 In our discussions, we have received troubling information not only about Jackson's behavior, but the behavior of many prominent Maine Democrats toward women more broadly,

00:32:36.920 both as a result of the credibility of the sources and in the interest of not seeing our movement make the same mistake twice.

00:32:43.380 We are choosing to share some of this now as Maine Senate president in a state Senate caucus meeting several years ago.

00:32:50.060 Troy Jackson, in a heated disagreement, struck a female colleague with a bottle.

00:32:54.680 He threw at her. There are many witnesses and it appears this is a widespread open secret within Maine politics and not an isolated incident.

00:33:03.280 This information is still developing. We'll provide more as we get it. I should note for the record, that's not been responded to by this Troy Jackson. It appears to be an allegation that was not made in any sort of official or formal setting. So we will assume he denies it for now. But the vetting thing is not going well, Tom Bevan. It's not it didn't go well with Platt. And maybe maybe this is the reason why. Who could forget these idiots who found Graham Plattner to begin with?

00:33:30.680 And then we're so proud of themselves. Did the media rounds only to have all normies recoil in a horror that these are the people picking our political candidates? Look at these two. 1.00

00:33:41.900 We paid a nice firm, a whole chunk of money and got some stuff back. Some of what you've seen on the news, we got back. Other stuff we didn't.

00:33:52.500 Did the vetting process turn up the tattoo that became so controversial?

00:33:58.020 No.

00:33:58.500 the reddit posts did that turn up in the vetting process

00:34:02.600 the firm sent us a thing and it had some of the posts but it didn't have all of them

00:34:14.860 and what did you think about that how did you how did you think your way through

00:34:21.440 the fact that he had posted these things on social media i said none of this will or should

00:34:27.920 stop him from becoming a U.S. senator? Oh, my gosh. I'm sorry. They might want to ask for a

00:34:36.340 refund for that OPPO research firm that they hired because they didn't do a very good job.

00:34:43.060 Of course, of course they didn't. Have you ever seen a bigger loser? I mean, you could just tell 0.96

00:34:49.180 just his affect, the way he speaks, his defense of the vetting process. I don't know if he's

00:34:56.400 connected with progressive victory, Mark Halpern, but they seem to be doing a better job in stopping

00:35:01.700 certain other possibilities in their tracks so that they don't make this mistake. I mean,

00:35:07.580 I think the biggest winners today are obviously Maine Republicans and Republicans nationwide

00:35:11.860 who've got to be feeling this seat, notwithstanding what that betting poll showed

00:35:15.800 is a bit more secure for Team Red than it was two months ago.

00:35:20.300 Well, you just imagine whoever the Maine Democrats pick, even if they somehow could

00:35:23.840 pick somebody on Tuesday if Plattner gets out. It's a challenge to stand up a Senate campaign,

00:35:29.780 even if you run a gubernatorial campaign this year. Standing up a federal Senate campaign,

00:35:34.440 hiring everybody in the middle of the summer, fundraising, scheduling, and then going through

00:35:40.320 vetting, it's a crapshoot. Is it possible someone could get all that done and not have vetting

00:35:46.040 issues and put a campaign up against Susan Collins, who, by the way, her and her team are 0.96

00:35:51.800 killers. They're not they're not lackadaisical. They know how hard it will be for her to win the 0.99

00:35:56.860 seat no matter what, because the nature of the state. So good luck to whoever it is. And they

00:36:01.840 better be clean as a whistle, because you can rest assured their own vetters may not find stuff. But

00:36:06.560 the James Blair and the Republicans will find it all. It's really not great to replace the one

00:36:12.300 who's allegedly kidnapping and assaulting and raping women with one who threw a bottle 0.83

00:36:18.680 at another woman in a heated disagreement. 0.96

00:36:23.100 I don't know where it hit her,

00:36:24.400 but there are apparently many witnesses, again,

00:36:26.260 reports of this group as an open secret.

00:36:29.320 So last but not least,

00:36:30.920 this is not on the subject of Graham Plattner,

00:36:32.680 but it is on the subject of Mitch McConnell.

00:36:35.020 There is a report out today

00:36:36.900 that Mitch McConnell's been hospitalized

00:36:39.060 for the past few weeks.

00:36:40.820 And there's a woman who broke the story

00:36:43.300 who's an independent journalist.

00:36:45.600 I'll try to find her name here.

00:36:46.680 I had it a second ago.

00:36:47.560 And she is reporting today that that Mitch McConnell may be in a coma. He may be in a coma right now. And that as that news hit, his wife, Elaine Chao, final former labor secretary under Trump, flew to China to meet with the Chinese vice president.

00:37:10.100 Okay, so he was found unconscious and required CPR at his Washington, D.C. home following an apparent cardiac arrest.

00:37:19.860 Reading here from a Daily Beast report that's based on this woman's and I think another's reporting.

00:37:25.420 And now this woman, her name is Desiree Townsend.

00:37:29.260 Again, she's the one who initially reported accurately he was found unconscious at his home,

00:37:33.600 is saying yes that she's now hearing uh that he is in some sort of vegetative regitative state

00:37:42.180 uh and possibly no brain activity and that she's now waiting at the hospital for when his family

00:37:49.680 quote eventually decides to move him off of life support it he is still a sitting u.s senator he

00:37:55.740 stepped down as majority leader but he's still sitting u.s senator and there's speculation mark

00:38:00.540 Calperin that the reason possibly, this is Steve Bannon's theory, that they don't want to announce

00:38:05.920 this is that he believes the senator's office is trying to avoid triggering a special election

00:38:11.220 that would allow outgoing Kentucky Republican Representative Thomas Massey to run as an

00:38:17.120 independent. There's some timing issue if this comes out about McConnell before August 3rd about

00:38:24.160 whether we can have a special election that might allow Massey to run or whether it would just go

00:38:28.940 right to November in the general. And I don't know how that would affect Massey. But can we

00:38:33.660 just start on the issue about McConnell and the reporting there? What do you know and what do

00:38:37.860 you think? Well, they've been very unforthcoming about what exactly has happened. We know he's

00:38:42.540 had health issues in the past. I talked to someone today who I think knows more than he was willing

00:38:47.980 to tell me, but I wouldn't be surprised if Senator McConnell didn't come back to the Senate

00:38:52.200 and and all this stuff about about who will replace him is is going to be very much on his

00:38:58.720 mind in the mind of his team. They're extremely proprietary about that seat.

00:39:03.540 I got to say, I'm I'm sad about this. I know there are a lot of Republicans who don't like

00:39:08.280 Mitch McConnell because he's been a Trump antagonist in more recent years. But the Mitch

00:39:13.180 McConnell I know is the one who got Supreme Court justice and appellate court justice after one

00:39:20.700 after the other through at a time when the Democrats were completely obstruction oriented

00:39:29.080 around judges and he accomplished some heroic feats around judges that he really should be

00:39:36.580 applauded and remembered for. And look, you can't have your whole legacy be defined on whether you

00:39:42.180 were on the right side of Trump. You know, it's just bullshit. Like he served honorably for 1.00

00:39:47.920 decades, became a leader in Republican politics. He was a gentleman, but fought very hard when it

00:39:54.120 came to judicial nominees. Forgive me for speaking of him in the past tense. There's no report that

00:39:59.480 he has died. It's just I understand he's obviously struggling right now. So but if this does become

00:40:05.400 a battle for, you know, legacy and the seat, Tom Bevin, it's not like this is going to go

00:40:11.040 blew this seat, but Thomas Massey actually potentially getting in to like, what a switcheroo

00:40:19.240 that would be. I mean, I don't know if Trump would feel any better about Massey than he did

00:40:23.040 about McConnell. No, that would be like one of those stories that, you know, Hollywood would

00:40:27.760 reject because it seemed too far-fetched if that's how the whole thing worked out. But

00:40:32.840 I agree with you. Mitch McConnell had a really interesting arc over the last few years of his

00:40:36.680 career because when he was in the same he's a master tactician he he was able to get the supreme

00:40:42.440 court justices through and you remember like there were all these memes of him going around and like 0.63

00:40:47.800 with narcos and all these things like he was he was like dark cocaine mitch and all that fear the

00:40:53.320 turtle all those things and then he subsequently the sort of the the the attitude flipped and he

00:41:00.260 became uh among the least well-liked if you look at his favorability ratings they went absolutely

00:41:05.580 into the tank, in part driven by Republicans. And so he became one of the least liked members

00:41:11.780 of the establishment by the MAGA base, even despite his successes and accomplishments.

00:41:17.720 Look, I started my primetime show at Fox News. The very first guest ever was Ted Cruz. And my

00:41:26.920 first question to him was, what's it like to be the most hated man in America? I have a long track

00:41:31.700 record of liking and having a friendship with the least liked people in Washington. And I don't know

00:41:38.100 if this is to my credit or to my shame, but I wear it as a badge of honor. It's good to get along

00:41:43.280 with people if you can. Guys, thank you both so much. Good to see you both. Thanks, Megan.

00:41:47.320 Yeah, you as well. All right, coming up next, we will have the latest on the Tyler Robinson

00:41:52.060 hearing. We've been monitoring it all morning. I'm going to summarize for you the major points

00:41:56.760 that came out yesterday. I can see clearly a couple of places that they're going on this.

00:42:00.980 It's fascinating how much the prosecution is showing. I mean, truly, like my only conclusion is that they must be worried about the public PR battle and the jury pool because they don't have to be doing all this. And yet they are. And they just released some really like gripping video. It was moments before air and I was sitting there eating an apple, like staring at it and eating my apple, not able to speak.

00:42:28.260 Doug came by. I'm like, I can't talk now. We're going to show it to you and talk about its meaning

00:42:32.400 next. Don't go away. Every season change seems to come with the same realization,

00:42:37.840 a closet full of clothes and absolutely nothing to wear. Haven't you been there? Between work,

00:42:43.380 travel, your family commitments and everything else, you might not have the time or frankly,

00:42:47.760 the desire to spend hours shopping. Or maybe you are like me where I do have the desire,

00:42:53.960 but I don't have the skill. Like left to my own devices, I really don't have a lot of style.

00:43:01.000 So I rely on other people to help me. And this is why I'm so excited to tell you about Daily Look.

00:43:06.340 It is the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. With Daily

00:43:12.420 Look, you get your own dedicated personal stylist, a real person, not an algorithm,

00:43:16.900 who curates a box based on your body shape, preferences, and lifestyle. And you get the

00:43:22.820 same stylist every time so she gets to know you and your preferences and what's already in your

00:43:27.500 closet. You can try up to 12 premium pieces at home, keep what you love, and send back the rest

00:43:33.760 with free shipping both ways. It's time to get your own personal stylist with Daily Look. Head

00:43:39.480 to dailylook.com to take your style quiz and use code MEGAN for 50% off your first order. But let

00:43:45.700 me tell you something, with or without the 50%, you should try this because it pays for itself.

00:43:51.680 you buy a couple of like nice outfits that once you get home don't look good or you never wear

00:43:57.860 and you've wasted your money and for this the low low price of using the folks at dailylook.com

00:44:03.540 you can avoid those costs and get stuff you actually love and will wear all the time all

00:44:10.460 right so that's dailylook.com for 50 off and make sure you use our promo code megan which will

00:44:16.660 ensure you get your discount all right and then they'll know we sent you frozen lasagna medium

00:44:23.000 power 15 minutes sounds like ojo time let's play feel the fun with play ojo the online casino with

00:44:32.940 all the latest slots live casino games what you win is yours to keep no wagering requirements

00:44:37.020 instant payouts and no minimum withdrawals hey i just won feel the fun play ojo honey forget about

00:44:43.720 lasagna let's celebrate 19 plus Ontario only please play responsibly concerned about your

00:44:47.160 gambling or that of someone close to you call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca

00:44:50.800 all right full-time thoughts Craig who stood out Brazil's lime cheesecake started bright didn't let

00:44:56.020 up nah for me Italian cappuccino was to stand out in the box but if we're talking decadent

00:45:00.700 performance that's all France chocolate creme brulee had the richest finishes Canadian fireworks

00:45:05.320 really showed up big too and Mexico's caramel churro ice cap gave me chills we are of course

00:45:10.860 talking about Tim's taste of the globe lineup.

00:45:13.040 New globally inspired Timbits and IceCat flavors

00:45:15.400 available at Tim Hortons for a limited time.

00:45:17.520 Pick some up today and while you're at it,

00:45:19.140 check out Footy Prime Daily.

00:45:23.880 Now we want to get to day two

00:45:25.980 of the Tyler Robinson preliminary hearing.

00:45:29.120 And I just want to update you on what happened yesterday.

00:45:34.120 Okay, and then I'll tell you what happened this morning.

00:45:35.880 And then we're going to bring in our panel

00:45:37.360 and we will discuss it.

00:45:38.520 But our friend Jack Posobiec, who has been doing great work with Turning Point in the wake of Charlie's death, as he did prior, is there at the trial and did a wonderful report online yesterday for the post-millennial about what happened in court.

00:45:55.880 We, of course, checked it ourselves, as we always do.

00:45:58.960 We trust Jack, and he was right about his reporting.

00:46:01.440 But, you know, it's always good since more eyes are better.

00:46:05.580 And I want to tell you what happened.

00:46:08.040 some of the highlights, okay? And then we'll get to the stunning video that was just released.

00:46:12.600 Okay, first yesterday to testify was Officer Chris Bagley. He was there because he served as

00:46:19.840 a Utah Valley University officer on the day of the shooting. Now, that in and of itself is

00:46:25.000 interesting because they failed. UVU police failed to keep Charlie safe and to keep that roof secure.

00:46:33.580 and i was told directly by my friends at turning point that the reason the turning point security

00:46:42.000 team was not patrolling the roof or doing drones taking a look at the roof is because they were

00:46:49.320 told by the local cops that they were on it and we heard the head of the security team for charlie

00:46:55.960 say that to sean ryan he went on his show and said something to that effect that that the locals had

00:47:02.900 it. And this guy was the local. This is, this is the UVU officer who was there the day of the

00:47:11.740 shooting. And by the way, once you know that it makes the Nestor cross-examination, she's the

00:47:17.180 lawyer for Tyler Robinson, of him yesterday come into more clear focus. Because do you remember,

00:47:24.900 like this guy was used to set up the scene to talk about the shooting, to talk about the

00:47:32.360 aftermath and then what he did to find the the scene of the shooting the evidence he saw there

00:47:42.000 and so on so he's an important witness to talk about this is this is the evidence we found at

00:47:46.600 the scene and how it all went down and she it seems clear to me was trying to diminish him 0.97

00:47:52.060 by saying you you don't know your ass from your elbow you get you you know ultimately she's going 0.98

00:47:58.280 to argue. This guy, he couldn't keep Charlie safe. He's got a lot to cover up for. He's got a lot to 0.99

00:48:04.720 answer for. Should we really be putting a lot of stock in his word? Because he's the one who failed

00:48:10.180 to secure the entire scene because she did get after him yesterday in a soundbite. We played

00:48:14.200 on the lack of security on the roof. And, you know, did you really know that? I can't remember

00:48:22.420 the specifics of it, but we listened to it yesterday. In fact, we'll just play it. Okay,

00:48:25.220 here's her cross of this guy bagley sat 36 um the machines you walk through a tsa in the airport

00:48:33.040 where it checks to see if you're carrying any anything metal what we all had to go through

00:48:36.960 to get in the courtroom were there any machines like that set up or being used on campus that day

00:48:41.540 no and as far as you know no mags were there any drones that were flying above campus that day

00:48:51.000 not enough and did anyone ever talk to you about covering anything near or on top of or

00:48:59.860 in the low c building were you ever signed that area before the shooting no do you know who was

00:49:06.620 i don't and when you got up to the roof that afternoon was anybody around that was law

00:49:15.500 enforcement no nobody on the roof no nobody on the stairway nobody on the walkway no okay

00:49:24.220 and in the state of utah is a campus a gun-free zone are students allowed to have guns on campus

00:49:36.480 it's an open carry state so yes that actually is important by the way that utah is an open carry

00:49:42.560 state and UVU is an open carry campus. And therefore it's fine to have, you don't need a

00:49:47.980 license so different. Let me tell you from Connecticut. Um, but you don't need a license

00:49:52.600 because it's a free state, uh, to carry a gun. We have a whole thing. It's called the second

00:49:56.800 amendment. So these crazy leftists would have us get a license to have our free speech next. 0.99

00:50:03.000 Uh, that's also an important amendment. In any event, this guy testified about being a UVU

00:50:08.740 officer on the day of the shooting. He testified, uh, he, he was shown a number of images depicting

00:50:14.680 the campus, the buildings and the surrounding area. Uh, of course the defense objected to

00:50:19.080 everything and, uh, it, they were overruled. He said he was securing, um, the area above the tent

00:50:27.100 that was covering Charlie. Uh, he came in to do a shift for this special event. He observed Charlie

00:50:32.900 arrive on campus, do a meet and greet. He saw there's several, several thousand people there

00:50:36.520 in attendance. He heard a shot fired at 12.23 p.m. local time, which is 2.23 p.m. Eastern.

00:50:46.300 Cannot forget that moment here, experiencing it ourselves. He said he saw Kirk lean to the left,

00:50:53.720 going further under the tent. Then everybody started getting up and starting to run in more

00:50:58.440 of a chaos kind of situation. He said he recognized the noise as gunfire. He left his post. He began

00:51:03.040 fighting against the crowd, flowing against him, so I can help stop an individual that's probably

00:51:07.580 shooting, and he's looking for the shooter. By the time he got to the bottom of the stairs,

00:51:10.980 someone said, or the radio, we had a shooter in custody. As Bagley recounted the events

00:51:15.820 of the shooting, Erica Kirk left the room. This was actually kind of a stunning development.

00:51:22.160 I know that Erica's going to leave, and Charlie's family's going to leave. His sister is there too,

00:51:27.580 not just his parents. When they get into the details of the shooting, none of them wants

00:51:31.640 to take that in. God bless them. Why should they have to? But Tyler Robinson is sitting in that

00:51:36.980 courtroom and he was reportedly laughing at the beginning of the hearing, not during the testimony,

00:51:43.340 but laughing. Picture it. And all the reports are that Erica burst out into tears before the

00:51:48.260 hearing even got going. And Tyler Robinson is sitting there laughing. I mean, I just can't

00:51:54.360 Imagine this dynamic of Erica having to sit feet away from the man accused of murdering

00:52:01.860 her husband, Charlie's poor parents and sister, same.

00:52:06.420 And soon, it could be today, it could be tomorrow, we haven't been told exactly when, they're

00:52:10.460 going to play that videotape of Luna, Lance Twiggs, the lover, furry trans person of the

00:52:18.760 defendant, Tyler Robinson.

00:52:19.940 And Tyler Robinson is going to see his trans furry lover testify against him.

00:52:26.420 And it'll be the first time they've seen each other, I believe, since the crime and since Robinson's arrest. 0.73

00:52:34.440 And he will have to sit there and listen to this lover sell him up the river.

00:52:39.060 And that will be quite a moment inside that courtroom.

00:52:41.860 so Bagley went on talked about how he began assessing whether anyone else was injured

00:52:50.880 didn't see any other injuries he did testify that he saw an empty pistol holder that was sitting on

00:52:56.960 top of the grass but then realized that there was a rifle shot he could see the low c building that

00:53:04.960 had a direct line of sight so he went there to see what was going on because he said he thought he

00:53:10.380 heard the shot come from the east he was later pressed on the fact that that wasn't in his report

00:53:15.200 that he had heard it come from the east but he added that yesterday and this would be in essence

00:53:20.780 what brought him to the scene of the shooting but it would also be his excuse for why he did not pick

00:53:26.580 up that holder the empty pistol holder and i'm sure the defense is going to make something out

00:53:31.700 of the fact that there was an empty pistol holder there that may have had evidence on it dna etc

00:53:36.260 What was never retrieved? More on that and the stunning videotape right after this break.

00:53:41.700 Are you feeling sluggish, bloated, not quite like yourself? This affects so many of us.

00:53:47.680 Life constantly bombards us with silent threats, processed foods, seed oils, artificial light,

00:53:53.820 nonstop stress, all of which can disrupt gut health, drain your energy, and weaken your immune

00:53:59.980 health while you're not even paying attention. When that happens, it's not that your body's

00:54:04.500 broken. It's that it might be missing the right inputs. This is why you need to know about Armra

00:54:09.940 Cholestrum. This thing's packed with more than 400 bioactive nutrients that they say can work

00:54:15.840 at a foundational level to fortify gut health. So many of our issues start with poor gut health

00:54:20.880 that can support immune health. They say it can also fuel recovery after a workout and promote

00:54:26.420 whole body vitality. Doesn't that sound good? Strong gut integrity can support metabolism,

00:54:33.020 skin and hair health. Yes. If you're having problems there, it could begin in your gut

00:54:37.880 and even performance and recovery, which is why cholesterol has long been valued

00:54:42.180 by some elite athletes. If you are looking to take back control of your health from the inside out,

00:54:47.800 consider Armra. And they have a special deal for you right now. Go to armra.com slash Megan

00:54:53.120 or enter MEGYN to get 30% off your first subscription order. That's armra.com slash MEGYN.

00:55:03.020 I'm going to bring in our panel in a minute, but first I just want to continue telling you

00:55:08.800 what happened yesterday and get you up to speed on where we are. I was in the midst of completing

00:55:13.120 Officer Bagley's testimony. He was a UVU campus officer at the time of the Charlie shooting and

00:55:22.140 was describing that he had seen an empty pistol holder that was sitting just on top of the grass.

00:55:28.340 he would later testify that he lost track of it and it disappeared. I'm sure the defense will want

00:55:33.780 to make something of that, but it is relevant that Utah is an open carry state. So it's not,

00:55:38.960 it's not like there was a shooting and, and now I found an empty holster and it must have come from

00:55:45.100 this empty holster. It's, it's Utah, it's open carry. There's probably holsters everywhere.

00:55:49.960 And in the chaos of a mass evacuation in a scary, dangerous event, it wouldn't be entirely shocking

00:55:56.300 to find somebody's on the ground. Perhaps somebody even pulled their weapon to protect themselves.

00:56:02.200 But if you're the defense lawyer, of course, you're going to make something of that. I mean,

00:56:05.720 I'd be arguing that's the real shooter. It wasn't my client who had that. And it wasn't a rifle.

00:56:11.540 It was a pistol. So that's where they're going. More back to Bagley. He described

00:56:17.400 going over to the low C center, right? He claimed that he saw, he believed he heard the shot come

00:56:23.060 from the east. That's where the low C center was. And that's the building on which the shooter,

00:56:27.280 Tyler Robinson, the accused shooter was accused of being when he fired these alleged shots.

00:56:33.560 He said he got there and he discovered a red and black screwdriver. He was shown a photograph from

00:56:40.720 the top of the low C center from which he said you could see the grass courtyard area and where

00:56:44.900 Charlie had been speaking. He described images shown in the courtroom of gravel. So they showed

00:56:50.560 the judge these images of gravel on the roof that had been disrupted of the Losi Center. At the very

00:56:56.320 top of the Losi Center, Bagley said he could observe what looks like a sniper pad, a person

00:57:01.340 that has been laid in a prone position with the markings of elbows, knees, and feet in the gravel

00:57:05.720 in the line of sight where Charlie's tent was. After his findings on the rooftop, Bagley said

00:57:11.180 he asked dispatch to look at the camera system to see if anyone was on the roof at the time of the

00:57:16.000 shooting. Now he's looking for corroborative evidence to what he's seeing in the gravel and

00:57:20.820 this screwdriver, which he thinks may be relevant. And he says, dispatch says there had been a man

00:57:26.160 on the roof and described that he ran to the edge, dropped down, crawled, got in a prone position

00:57:32.120 toward the direction of the tent. He then went to the police department in a nearby building to look

00:57:36.620 at the footage himself. At that moment, I realized I had more crimes, a bigger crime scene than I

00:57:41.520 needed to contain that I needed to contain and preserve for that moment. So you can see this

00:57:46.300 guy Bagley is important. Um, he went on to say that he went to the Northeast side of the building

00:57:50.940 outside the building. He saw impressions of the shoe print inside the grass and also up above on

00:57:58.940 the Northeast side of the building. I could see on the cement where someone had scuffed there,

00:58:03.900 then dropped down to the shoe imprint. He's attempting to lay down the evidence of the path

00:58:10.160 that the defendant he is arguing took um kathy nester cross-examined him in the way that we

00:58:18.500 showed you there zeroing in on that holster you know what happened to it bagley said he did not

00:58:24.920 know um and that no one had taken custody of it um then came david hull he is currently with the

00:58:35.840 utah department of public safety he was working as a state bureau of investigation um major crimes

00:58:43.620 division investigator at the time of the shooting and and they need hull to get in all the videos

00:58:49.940 that they have of who they say is tyler robinson that day and that's he started that yesterday

00:58:55.780 afternoon and that's he's still on the stand that's what he spent this morning doing so now

00:58:59.680 we're getting up to speed to current moment. He testified that he was directed to go down to the

00:59:06.040 university following the shooting. So Bagley's our guy to get us through the actual shooting.

00:59:10.960 And this guy came on the scene right after for, to investigate among the data gathered from

00:59:15.960 the general public, because he testified that they received multiple videos from the general public

00:59:20.960 were through tips and social media. Okay. Were videos taken at the scene, multiple videos

00:59:27.080 collected by the team were played in the courtroom, including clips of Charlie at the beginning of

00:59:30.540 the event, a video showing the moment Charlie was shot, as well as Charlie in the moments after he

00:59:36.600 was shot. There was a stunning moment in which they played the judge seeing Charlie get shot.

00:59:47.540 And I think I mentioned this yesterday, but he, you can't hear the audio. You can hear a little

00:59:54.240 bit. You can hear the shot go off, but you can see the judge, Judge Graff, react. He winces.

01:00:01.680 He is just, you see the judge's humanity. He winces when you can hear the shot and you can

01:00:07.320 see him, yeah, struggling to contain his emotions as the SOP plays out. In fact, no, it was on AM

01:00:14.640 update. We didn't play it here. Can we play it now? Let's go ahead and play this video only on

01:00:20.480 the monitors and if there's sound associated with it the sound to be played as well you may proceed

01:00:26.860 the listening audience you can see the judge at the moment of the shot and if you listen to

01:00:44.620 turn the sound up you can hear the shot and he he jumps the way you do like a jump scare in a movie

01:00:51.600 and then you can see him push his chair back it's an instinctive protective mechanism right like

01:00:57.300 push your chair back from the screen like we all want to when we see that video you don't want

01:01:01.600 anything to do with it you don't want to be seeing it you don't want it to be true and then he comes

01:01:06.740 back in toward the laptop it's all very subtle but it's happening and then you can see the judge

01:01:11.040 kind of put his tongue to the side of his mouth. It's stress, that stress and anxiety

01:01:17.040 manifesting in him. And he's a consummate professional. He's holding it completely

01:01:23.280 together, but you can just see his humanity and a judge, a distinguished judge trying to control it

01:01:29.560 and control his emotions because he is a human inside that robe. He has a job to do, but he's a

01:01:36.100 human. He's a human being who clearly has empathy for poor Charlie and what happened to him, and

01:01:41.600 that comforts me to know that. Back to David Hull, again, who was with the State Bureau of

01:01:48.480 Investigation Major Crimes Division on the day of the shooting, who talked about the multiple videos,

01:01:54.160 and he talked about the medical examiner who was at the scene who told him that he had pronounced

01:01:59.960 Charlie dead. He testified that the Utah Medical Examiner's Office conducted an autopsy late in

01:02:05.880 the evening of September 10th, and that the cause of death was listed in the autopsy report. He first

01:02:13.020 said as a murder, the manner of death, a gunshot wound to the neck. The defense lawyer objected

01:02:20.060 that the cause of death was actually listed as homicide, not murder, which is a legal distinction.

01:02:25.580 Murder has to be proven in a court, and the comment was corrected. Hull said on the night

01:02:32.720 of September 11th, the next night, Thursday, we received word from Washington County that an

01:02:36.900 individual in the area had reached out to law enforcement and was wanting to turn themselves

01:02:41.100 in for the incident at UVU. He said the name that they were given from Washington County was Tyler

01:02:46.920 Robinson. After receiving the name, they put together a workup of his driver's lessons and

01:02:51.380 other records to get some info on him, his car, and so on. After that information, they were able

01:02:56.200 to use video to try to track where Tyler Robinson went and that they were able to establish that

01:03:02.120 Tyler Robinson, quote, had been on campus approximately four times throughout the day, twice before the shooting, the time of the shooting, and after the shooting, later in the evening, into the early hours of the 11th.

01:03:15.820 There was testimony about something, I think it was 12.38 a.m. that night.

01:03:21.560 so he was there twice before at the time of the shooting and then into the wee hours of

01:03:27.500 between the 10th and the 11th when asked if the man on the videos was in the courtroom 0.98

01:03:33.780 he was about to point out Tyler Robinson the defense objected which is such a bullshit

01:03:37.920 objection but in any event ultimately he was allowed to identify that the man sitting in

01:03:42.460 the courtroom as Tyler Robinson was the man who was on those videos and he also recounted footage

01:03:48.300 that was gathered from nearby neighborhoods,

01:03:50.640 including ring doorbell footage

01:03:52.200 showing a vehicle consistent

01:03:54.220 with the one identified as belonging to Robinson

01:03:56.040 parking across the street.

01:03:57.780 Again, in the early hours of September 11th,

01:03:59.880 what we would learn from Hull

01:04:02.020 is that Tyler Robinson was there.

01:04:04.440 It reminded me, frankly, of Brian Kohlberger

01:04:06.980 who stalked the location of his crime

01:04:11.300 prior to committing it,

01:04:12.920 of course was there while committing it

01:04:14.860 and then went back again after.

01:04:17.200 That's what they're saying Tyler Robinson did as well.

01:04:20.660 It appears clear Tyler Robinson was there repeatedly at least four times that day.

01:04:24.840 They'll argue about whether he pulled the trigger, but they're setting up that he was there repeatedly.

01:04:30.880 And then today we got to the videos that they found of Robinson, of who they say is Robinson.

01:04:37.260 You look at these videos, you can't clearly tell it's Robinson.

01:04:40.600 They're going to have to prove that.

01:04:42.020 But there's definitely video of the same guy first in a maroon shirt and gray shorts on the campus and later in an outfit change. And they've got video of what they say is Tyler Robinson's car because now they know it's registered to him and to his mother. There was testimony by Hull to that effect. He's getting cross examined now.

01:05:00.340 But I want to show you first our compilation of the video we were watching just as we came to air.

01:05:07.060 And I should also tell you, there was a fight late yesterday about whether the prosecution's compilation of all these videos, where they highlighted the man who we're supposed to focus on, they blurred the faces of some people, they made it more user-friendly, was objected to by the defense.

01:05:24.180 she objects to everything she's getting fucking annoying um objected to and they didn't allow it

01:05:31.280 in yesterday now today they they laid the foundation by showing all the raw videos 0.87

01:05:35.700 and then they asked the judge if they could then introduce the compilation video which is a shorter

01:05:40.240 summary that that's more user-friendly she objected again and he sustained the objection so

01:05:45.040 well at least we we the media are not going to be able to see the compilation video so he he can see

01:05:51.040 it. But for some reason, they don't want to make it easier for the media to see it. We'll do our

01:05:57.100 own. Sorry to disappoint you, Ms. Nestor, but we're pretty good in the TV world of taking raw

01:06:03.200 video and zeroing in. I think you're probably going to be happier with what the prosecution

01:06:07.420 did, frankly, because we're under no obligation as the prosecutor is to keep it completely

01:06:12.800 objective and admissible. So whatever. We did what we could in the time we had before this

01:06:20.640 just aired an hour and 20 minutes ago, but here's three minutes of what they showed the court on

01:06:25.420 the videos of who they say is Tyler Robinson all over the UVU campus that day. What are we seeing

01:06:33.100 here, Agent Hall? That's the vehicle that is believed to belong to Mr. Robinson arriving in

01:06:38.180 the parking garage on campus. At what time in the morning? Well, what time of the day? It's

01:06:43.520 approximately 8.30 in the morning on September 10th, 2025. And what leads you to believe that

01:06:49.460 this particular vehicle belongs to Mr. Robinson?

01:06:53.660 Information that was provided regards to driver's license and Department of Motor Vehicle records.

01:07:01.180 The vehicle fits the description of a vehicle owned by Mr. Robinson.

01:07:04.600 Is there anything unique about that vehicle that stands out to you?

01:07:07.840 The shape of the vehicle is very distinct, but predominantly the wheels were very distinctive on this version of the vehicle.

01:07:15.860 Now what do we see?

01:07:17.800 The driver of the vehicle exits the vehicle and then walks on foot to exit the parking garage.

01:07:25.780 It's the individual in the red T-shirt and the shorts and the shoes.

01:07:33.440 And do you believe you recognize who that person is?

01:07:35.640 Yes.

01:07:36.140 Who is that?

01:07:37.020 I believe that it's Tyler Robinson.

01:07:39.660 All right.

01:07:39.940 Where does he go from there?

01:07:42.380 He heads out of the parking garage on foot into the campus.

01:07:46.880 and actually goes to the quad area of the campus.

01:07:50.480 At that time, he makes contact with some representatives from TPUSA.

01:07:56.720 By quad area?

01:07:58.400 Sorry, the amphitheater is what I've previously referred it to.

01:08:02.280 So he goes up on campus, visits the amphitheater area, the courtyard or quad.

01:08:07.160 Correct.

01:08:07.880 And then what do we see here now?

01:08:09.940 He returns on foot back to the same vehicle.

01:08:12.540 And what time is he returning back to the vehicle?

01:08:15.040 It's about 9.25 a.m.

01:08:25.000 And where is this parking structure located on campus?

01:08:28.700 It's just off of Campus Drive.

01:08:31.320 It's a short walk from the amphitheater.

01:08:35.980 What do we see now?

01:08:38.380 That's the vehicle exiting with Mr. Robinson driving the vehicle.

01:08:44.400 now what have we seen this is mr robinson returning to the campus on foot from um the

01:08:54.580 neighborhood to the northeast you can see he's wearing the same clothing as in the previous video

01:08:59.080 and he's carrying a blue backpack describe the clothing uh it's a maroon colored t-shirt uh with

01:09:07.300 uh gray or olive colored shorts and then converse shoes

01:09:12.260 and what time did he return to campus uh just after 10 a.m and does he leave the parking

01:09:23.400 structure eventually uh he does yes and during this visit do you know where he goes after he

01:09:29.480 leaves the the parking structure yes we were able to track his movements on campus he went to

01:09:34.300 Chick-fil-A, um, in the Sorenson building, uh, purchased some food, sat and ate the food.

01:09:42.920 Okay. So that's him prior to the murder. And then they showed video of a figure

01:09:49.860 on the roof of the low C building and video that has been publicly released. This is there. You

01:09:58.200 can see a figure running on the top right of your screen running across. This is him post

01:10:02.580 shooting, allegedly. And here now, for listening audience, it's a figure who appears to throw

01:10:08.840 something down. He's on the edge of the roof. This has been made public prior to this, so you may be

01:10:13.260 familiar with it. And he drops to the ground into the grass where the officer had said he found a

01:10:19.120 footprint and runs. So this is what Officer Bagley said he witnessed when he went to the dispatch

01:10:26.240 center and said, you know, I found evidence of some guy on the roof. What do you have? And the

01:10:31.720 dispatch saying, oh yeah, no, we've got that too. So they, they found the video. All right,

01:10:35.580 let's bring in our panel now and get their reactions. Dave Ehrenberg is here. So is Phil

01:10:40.220 Holloway. They are co-hosts of the MK true crime show on the MK media podcast network.

01:10:44.320 Go and subscribe just by typing in MK true crime in your podcast feed and it will come up.

01:10:50.760 Guys, thank you for being back with me. So Dave, just give us your impression. I've given the

01:10:55.240 audience a lot here on what, on what's gone on yesterday and today. Give us your impression on

01:11:00.000 what exactly is happening, what the prosecution is building and what the defense is trying to

01:11:04.860 undermine. Megan, good to be back with you. And Phil, this is the longest preliminary hearing

01:11:10.120 that I've ever seen for something like this, where all you have to do is establish probable

01:11:14.260 cause. I mean, this should be done in hours. But I think you're right that the reason why

01:11:19.400 the prosecution is just using overwhelming force here, I mean, shock and awe is to debunk the

01:11:25.120 conspiracy theories out there, especially since the defense leaned into a ballistics report that

01:11:30.680 was inconclusive. The prosecution so far has not challenged that. They've tried to like look away

01:11:36.540 from the inconclusive ballistics into all the other evidence that's there, like his multiple

01:11:42.080 confessions, his position on the roof, the video where he's running away. I mean, they've got a lot

01:11:48.500 of evidence against this guy and they don't need to show it but they are because they're aware

01:11:55.040 of the gravity of this moment how many conspiracy theories are out there some of it has been pushed

01:12:00.160 by the defense themselves and they want to get ahead of it phil what do you make of my comment

01:12:06.080 that this guy's giving brian kohlberger vibes with the multiple visits before and even going back

01:12:14.800 after midnight, the day, the evening of the crime, like after the crime was committed.

01:12:22.360 Yeah, that's an excellent point. And to echo Dave's very well-stated comments there,

01:12:29.180 the prosecutor is showing way more of their cards than they, in my view, than they need to or they

01:12:35.340 should. It's kind of like when you play poker, you don't show the rest of the table what you're

01:12:40.100 holding in your hand, by giving this much detail and this much evidence, you're just giving

01:12:45.380 the defense the opportunity to pick it apart for trial. But that being said, what they're showing

01:12:51.980 is premeditation. They're showing deliberation. They're showing what they really would need to

01:12:57.240 show to get the death penalty in this case. Now, this, of course, isn't the trial. This is not the

01:13:01.860 penalty phase or anything like that. But it gives us a little bit of a preview of what we're going

01:13:06.820 to see when there is a trial. And if you have this much premeditation, deliberation, preparation,

01:13:14.280 consciousness of guilt, the fleeing from the scene, things of that nature, all of that goes to show

01:13:21.300 that this was cold. This was calculated. This is the abandoned and malignant heart that we use

01:13:28.960 to describe what malice is. This was truly a malicious act. The videos themselves, I think we

01:13:35.500 could do for purposes of the prelim. We could do with less of that, but the confession that we have

01:13:41.720 yet to get to, you know, that's corroborated by these videos. So I agree with Dave to bring this

01:13:47.460 all together. I think they could have done this in about an hour or two. You show the video of the

01:13:52.960 shooting of Charlie Kirk. You show some of these videos for context like we've seen, and then you

01:13:58.660 get to the confession, and then you put a big bow on it and say, okay, we're getting ready for trial

01:14:03.520 now because we've established probable cause. A crime probably was committed. Well, clearly that

01:14:08.220 shows that a crime was committed and that this defendant is probably the one who committed it.

01:14:14.000 That's it. That's all you need to prove. This should be over in just a matter of hours,

01:14:18.100 but it's dragging on and on and on, and it gives the defense more opportunities to chip away and

01:14:23.340 to prepare their defense for trial. I just want to point out to the listening audience, now we're

01:14:28.740 looking at a different video that was shown of who they say is tyler robinson wearing a different

01:14:33.720 outfit now he's in the outfit that the fbi says the shooter was wearing and he's he's walking

01:14:40.040 funny there's speculation that that's because he's got a long gun down his pants um he's walking

01:14:45.680 kind of funny like with a limp he's no longer wearing the gray shirts and shorts and the maroon

01:14:50.940 t-shirt and the testimony in court is that this is after the shooting after the shooting or before

01:14:57.240 the shooting we're trying to figure this out forgive me um because we grab this video and

01:15:01.540 enhance it like zoomed in just so you could see it better um but it must be it's got to be before

01:15:07.420 the shooting because i i believe this is the video from which they made the pictures that we

01:15:13.460 identified tyler robinson and the allegation is that after the shooting he jumped off of the

01:15:17.440 rooftop and dropped the gun down below and then buried it or hit it in the woods so this my

01:15:23.160 deduction is it's got to be on his way to the shooting but the here's the question i have for

01:15:28.980 you dave erenberg the prosecution needs to prove they want to prove that this was him that he

01:15:32.720 he stalked his prey you know he he showed up at nine at 8 30 a.m the morning of charlie's

01:15:40.720 appearance that he was there for an hour they said he it took him he arrived at 8 30 and he left at

01:15:47.120 925. And in that time he went to the quad and he made contact with a TPA, TP USA representative.

01:15:55.300 Maybe he's asking exactly when Charlie's expected, you know, who knows that poor

01:15:59.860 turning point rep will probably wind up being a witness and had no idea, right. Who they're

01:16:06.600 talking to or who they're giving information to. Um, and then he returns, they said a little after

01:16:12.780 10 a.m. we saw the car pulling out of the garage at 9 25 a little after 10 a.m. they said he

01:16:18.300 returned on foot but they said he returned on foot with the same outfit that maroon tee and

01:16:25.100 the gray shorts and that he went to chick-fil-a at the sorenson center on campus and then returned

01:16:33.380 back on campus like on proper campus no longer carrying the backpack and i believe that's when

01:16:39.160 he changed his outfit and got rid of the backpack. That we need to shore up because that was not

01:16:44.480 clear to me from what I heard. But it's one thing to tell the judge and eventually the jury, Dave,

01:16:49.600 that's Tyler Robinson. There he is. And it's another to prove it, right? Because if you're

01:16:55.700 Nestor, she's questioning everything. She is not giving the prosecution any gimmies. It's actually

01:17:01.220 annoying. But on this, she should question, right? She should say, how do you know it's Tyler

01:17:06.640 robinson now on the on the car they've they've got the registration they can see the plates and

01:17:11.560 the car the officer testified is registered to tyler and his mother and there was testimony

01:17:16.480 that she bought it for him um so i guess that's halfway there then you got to prove that's

01:17:22.380 actually him getting out of it so how do they do all that if you're the prosecutor as you have been

01:17:27.180 for years how do you do that step by step megan first they identified his dodge challenger and

01:17:35.640 And then because they ran his license plate, they had driver's license details.

01:17:38.880 So they know that that's his car.

01:17:40.540 And then you had Agent Hull who testified that the person in the video showed a distinctive limp that you can see yourself.

01:17:52.000 And then you want to try to tie it to him.

01:17:56.540 And once that Robinson turned himself in, they could correlate that the timeline matched the digital footprint, including the cell phone data and the specific route that was identified via the Google map records.

01:18:12.820 So the fact that he was there on campus four times that day, that does give the Koberger vibe.

01:18:18.840 Someone who's scouting it out and then comes back over and over again. 0.94

01:18:22.800 And I just think that you just have to put all this stuff together and with all the totality of the evidence to show that this is the guy.

01:18:31.140 The defense is doing the right thing by asking all these questions, although, yeah, she's getting a little annoying.

01:18:35.560 But she is using this as a way to get the cards, as Phil said, from the prosecution.

01:18:42.320 The prosecution is showing so much evidence. They're giving the defense a great amount of stuff that they wouldn't normally have.

01:18:48.480 So this hearing can actually benefit the defense more than the prosecution because they're getting all this good info, even though they don't have twigs in person.

01:18:57.140 Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, they're not going to they're not going to be able to talk to twigs, but they're going to hear what he what he has to say.

01:19:05.120 I mean, to me, it's interesting because, Phil, all this stuff like. Doesn't the defense already have access to all of this, right?

01:19:12.280 The prosecution doesn't get surprises.

01:19:14.620 They have to turn everything over to the defense.

01:19:17.500 And so it's different to hear them stitch it together and to hear their narrative.

01:19:21.480 But the defense should not be surprised by any of these exhibits.

01:19:25.060 No, they're not surprised by the evidence or the exhibits.

01:19:28.620 But here's what they don't have until there's a hearing.

01:19:31.860 They don't have sworn testimony from these witnesses under oath.

01:19:35.840 And let me explain just a minute, if I may, why that could backfire on the prosecution.

01:19:41.020 because these are witnesses that are going to come forward at trial, okay?

01:19:45.440 There's going to be a transcript of this preliminary hearing

01:19:48.840 and the testimony from these witnesses.

01:19:51.280 If their story is any different, if their testimony varies one iota at trial,

01:19:57.420 the defense is going to whip out the printed transcript of this particular testimony,

01:20:03.720 and they're going to, even if it's just innocuous,

01:20:06.380 if it's something just a minor misstatement or something like that,

01:20:10.000 They're going to try to show the jury that they said one thing during the preliminary hearing and then something else during the trial, and they're going to try to impeach them potentially with any prior inconsistent statements.

01:20:22.160 The other thing that it does is it gives the defense sort of the opportunity to see how witnesses testify.

01:20:30.000 How do they do on cross-examination?

01:20:31.600 What's their demeanor?

01:20:32.600 How are they going to play to a jury?

01:20:34.820 So this really does give the defense a lot to work with.

01:20:39.340 We have a group text amongst our MK Truth Crime hosts, and we've been talking about this case.

01:20:46.900 And our friend and colleague Mark Garagos commented that this length of a preliminary hearing is good for the defense.

01:20:54.980 And he's not wrong.

01:20:55.860 He's absolutely right.

01:20:57.320 This was a mistake to do it the way they're doing it for this to go on for so long.

01:21:03.260 They need to just get the core evidence out there.

01:21:06.900 They have to prove that a crime probably was committed and that this guy probably did it.

01:21:12.300 And that's it.

01:21:12.960 They could do it like we were talking about just in a matter of a few hours.

01:21:16.880 The other thing they could have done is they could have sent this to a grand jury for a grand jury indictment so that that would be a judicial determination of probable cause.

01:21:25.060 But by doing it in this fashion, not only are they frustrating us in the media because we can't see all the evidence that the judge is seeing,

01:21:33.220 but they're giving the defense lots to work with when it comes to trial preparation.

01:21:38.380 No, but listen to this, Phil.

01:21:40.180 The failure to use a grand jury and to go for a preliminary hearing

01:21:44.420 where you have to lift the dress way up

01:21:46.200 has boggled the minds of a lot of lawyers, including this one.

01:21:50.340 But we actually did take a deep dive into it.

01:21:52.580 We had been told yesterday that it's not favored in Utah.

01:21:55.520 They don't use grand juries a lot.

01:21:57.100 And then we did a deep dive, and here is what we found.

01:21:59.340 In Utah's criminal justice system, grand jury indictments are rare.

01:22:04.320 The Utah Supreme Court laid this out in a 2015 decision.

01:22:08.860 The vast majority of felony cases are prosecuted by information, that is, by a prosecutor filing charges directly in district court.

01:22:17.160 The historical role of the grand jury is now generally played by the district court itself, which holds preliminary hearings to review the state's evidence and reject unjustified prosecutions.

01:22:27.840 A prosecutor wishing to prosecute by indictment must first persuade a special panel of five district judges.

01:22:35.380 This is if you want to go jury, grand jury, that there is good cause to summon a grand jury.

01:22:40.760 If the panel then summons the grand jury, the prosecutor may then ask the jurors to return an indictment and charge the defendant without a preliminary hearing.

01:22:48.740 But they make it intentionally difficult.

01:22:50.740 Well, for some reason, they really don't like impaneling grand juries in Utah, which is why they do the preliminary hearing.

01:22:57.060 And once you've said, you know, you're going to ask the district court to give you an indictment, the defendant has the right to demand the preliminary hearing.

01:23:06.280 And that's, you know, Bob's your uncle. You're off to the races, which is what happened here.

01:23:10.500 I don't know why they don't like the grand jury, but they don't like it in Utah.

01:23:13.640 That's why the prosecution is doing it this way.

01:23:15.840 um i want to go back to these videos because this video that we're going to see here we showed part

01:23:23.780 of it just a moment ago of him now in a different outfit this is the outfit that was released by the

01:23:29.200 fbi as being worn by charlie's killer and this is the these are the pictures this is the video

01:23:37.280 of the still shots that were used to identify who is this shooter the fbi put it out on september

01:23:45.300 11th saying, this is our shooter. Does anybody know who this is? And it would turn out that

01:23:49.200 Tyler Robinson's own mother and father saw it and both said, oh my God, that's our son.

01:23:56.280 They both started texting him. The mother saying, where are you? He claimed he was sick, homesick,

01:24:02.120 and that he had been the day before. The father saying, send me a picture of grandpa's gun right

01:24:08.320 now because he knew the FBI had released the picture that law enforcement had it, had recovered

01:24:13.620 the gun and the father recognized it. And they were also worried because they saw the pictures

01:24:18.320 of the shooter and they said, geez, that looks a lot like Tyler. You know, it's like the same way

01:24:22.280 we've been looking at porch guy in the Nancy Guthrie case saying, we don't know who the hell

01:24:26.100 that is. But if you were married to that dude, you would know you, you know, when it's your family

01:24:31.780 member, your spouse, your kid, your dad, you know, in a way that strangers don't. So now we're seeing

01:24:39.320 the actual videotape from which these still images were were taken and and this is what

01:24:46.440 was played in court just as we were coming to air and we'll hear the narrative about the videotape

01:24:51.900 we showed you tyler robinson allegedly in the maroon shirt and the gray shorts parking coming

01:24:57.020 in at 8 30 leaving at 9 25 then he came back at 10 and now there's the here's the testimony about

01:25:04.000 the video of who they say is Tyler wearing the same outfit as the shooter here. The images that

01:25:09.740 we have are from from my viewing and seeing Mr. Robinson on the video. It's the same person.

01:25:20.580 He's noticeably wearing different clothing. He is wearing different clothing. And he also is

01:25:25.840 walking with a gate or a limp in this video with the gate or what? Limp.

01:25:34.920 Now, what do we see?

01:25:36.860 It says Mr. Robinson coming up the stairs of the parking structure.

01:25:42.280 Again, he seems to be having issues walking.

01:25:51.820 And again, were you able to track Mr. Robinson when he leaves this parking structure?

01:26:00.200 Yes, we were able to.

01:26:01.560 Okay.

01:26:02.620 So when he leaves...

01:26:04.000 Okay, so then they continue, and the testimony is that this is prior to the shooting. I mean, Dave, this is actually quite eerie. We're sort of doing a forensic analysis of it, but what they're arguing is that he was on his way to murder our friend who was out there asking questions, who had kissed his wife Erica goodbye early that morning while she was still in bed.

01:26:25.520 He left so early, who couldn't sleep the night before, who had a feeling about something possibly happening, who had been under nonstop security threats, who was not well served, unfortunately, by good-hearted men who were supposed to protect him that day, who didn't anticipate the rooftops, notwithstanding Butler 14 months earlier.

01:26:50.700 And Tyler Robinson, according to the police and the prosecution, had murder on his mind and was limping because that long gun given to him by his grandpa was running down his pant leg and would be one of the reasons he would get caught.

01:27:07.900 because he, you know, if you believe the text messages between Tyler and his lover, Lance

01:27:12.700 Twiggs, he hid it in the woods on his escape and couldn't get back to it. The cops got turned on

01:27:19.880 to the woods too soon. And so he wasn't able to get back. And maybe that's why he went back there

01:27:25.140 because if memory serves, we weren't aware that they had the gun until the next day, you know,

01:27:30.980 So it could be at 12.38 a.m. on the wee hours of Thursday the 11th.

01:27:37.160 That's what he was doing back there, trying to clean up after himself and couldn't manage to do it.

01:27:41.660 Yeah, Megan, a quick question, if I can joke.

01:27:43.140 Didn't, wasn't there some, as I recall, some of the statements that he made to Twigs were of the effect that, you know, I need to go back for my rifle.

01:27:54.000 As I recall, that was what the conversation was, and we're going to hear more about that, of course, when we hear from Twigs.

01:27:59.660 But that will, or at least through his statement.

01:28:02.500 And then, of course, at trial, we'll hear from Twiggs and anybody else.

01:28:06.140 But that, I think, explains why he went back.

01:28:08.960 And, you know, it makes sense that if you're going to sort of preposition items that you may need for an assassination,

01:28:16.560 you might make multiple trips to go get your spot set up, get your sniper's den set up,

01:28:21.520 and then have to leave in a hurry and then go back to clean up your mess.

01:28:25.380 So this all actually makes pretty good sense to me.

01:28:27.420 yes he is lamenting in his text exchange with lance twigs how he wasn't able to get his rifle

01:28:34.700 and he thought that was the only thing that could identify him um there was also testimony

01:28:39.760 the well dave i wanted to get you to respond to my my other point about how eerie it is and how

01:28:44.420 they're setting it up and how you know it's all so forensic and antiseptic and yet you know exactly

01:28:49.720 what these actions allegedly produced this had to take some real planning you know he had different

01:28:55.020 outfits he was limping when he had the gun on him and then later he's not he's wearing something

01:28:59.880 different later on and then he had to try to find out how to get the gun back even message twigs at

01:29:05.620 some point about how they'll be together later on uh in in life so this took planning and that

01:29:12.580 means premeditation and that means the death penalty and it is quite telling that this judge

01:29:18.220 had every opportunity to take the death penalty off the table because he is holding the prosecutors

01:29:24.540 in contempt for speaking too much, for giving a statement to TMZ, which I think is overplayed.

01:29:30.420 I don't think the judge should do that, but okay. But instead of sanctioning the prosecution by

01:29:35.280 taking the death penalty off the table, he's refusing to do that. He's leaving it open to

01:29:39.860 other sanctions. And that tells you that I think that this is going to be a capital case and that

01:29:45.360 it's very likely that this defendant gets the ultimate punishment. Yes, yes. And if they prove

01:29:53.300 this case beyond a reasonable doubt. That's exactly what he should get. Um, there should be

01:29:58.260 absolutely no mercy for him. He had none for Charlie. Here is, um, some of what was in that

01:30:03.440 text exchange that they say is between Lance Twiggs and Tyler Robinson. Um, as he starts to

01:30:11.500 panic that, hold on a second, that, that the gun has been left there. Let's see. Says I'm stuck in

01:30:20.380 Or, um, I am still okay. He starts off with September 10th, the day of the murder. Lance

01:30:27.640 Twiggs received a text message from Tyler Robinson, which said, drop what you're doing.

01:30:31.140 Look under my keyboard. He looked under the keyboard. He found a note that stated I had

01:30:34.340 the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I'm going to take it. Police found a photograph of

01:30:38.820 the note, I believe on Lance Twiggs phone. Then the following text exchange took place.

01:30:44.060 After reading the note, Lance Twiggs responded, what you're joking, right? Robinson, I am still

01:30:49.060 okay, my love, but I'm stuck in Orem for a little while longer yet. Shouldn't be long until I can

01:30:54.160 come home, but I got to grab my rifle still. To be honest, I had hoped to keep this secret till

01:30:58.960 I died of old age. I'm sorry to involve you. Roommate, you weren't the one who did it, right?

01:31:03.500 Robinson, I am. I'm sorry. Roommate, I thought they caught the person. Robinson, no, they grabbed

01:31:08.500 some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle

01:31:14.180 from my drop point shortly after, but most of that side of town got locked down. It's quiet,

01:31:19.600 almost enough to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering. Roommate, why? Robinson, why did I do

01:31:24.480 it? Roommate, yeah. Robinson, I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out.

01:31:31.540 If I am able to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to retrieve it

01:31:36.940 again. Hopefully they have moved on. I haven't seen anything about them finding it. Again,

01:31:41.920 And they didn't release the timestamp on this, but one might assume it's prior to 1238 a.m.

01:31:46.740 on the 11th, which is when they said he did.

01:31:49.640 He is on video again.

01:31:52.240 Roommate, how long have you been planning this, Robinson?

01:31:54.540 A bit over a week, I believe.

01:31:56.040 I can get close to it, but there's a squad car parked right by it.

01:31:59.660 I think they already swept that spot, but I don't want to chance it.

01:32:02.940 He goes on.

01:32:03.580 I'm wishing I had circled back and grabbed it as soon as I got to my vehicle.

01:32:07.100 I'm worried what my old man would do if I didn't bring back grandpa's rifle.

01:32:10.860 I don't even know if it had a serial number, but it wouldn't trace to me. I worry about Prince.

01:32:16.440 I had to leave it in a bush where I changed outfits. Didn't have the ability or time to

01:32:20.880 bring it with. I might have to abandon it and hope they don't find Prince. How the fuck am I

01:32:25.920 going? Will I explain losing it to my old man? Only thing I left was the rifle wrapped in a 0.99

01:32:31.860 towel. And then goes on to say, remember how I was engraving bullets. The effing messages are

01:32:37.920 mostly a big meme, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Judging from today, I'd say grandpa's gun does

01:32:43.100 just fine. Ugh, I know. See what I mean? All they got to do is show the video of the assassination

01:32:52.920 and then some context and then get into that particular text message confession with all

01:32:59.800 those details. And then you've got probable cause. It's like right there with a bow on it. And so

01:33:05.160 I just am still scratching my head why this is going to be something that takes

01:33:09.560 an entire week. I've handled prelims that take five minutes. I've handled them that take a few

01:33:14.520 hours. But we certainly are not accustomed, at least not in my neck of the woods anyway,

01:33:20.500 to preliminary hearings that go on for days and days and days. That would be called a trial.

01:33:25.480 But this is just a bit of overkill, if you ask me, pardon the pun. But for a preliminary hearing,

01:33:31.040 this is just too much. This has got to be for the benefit of someone other than that judge,

01:33:37.280 does it not, Dave? Absolutely. That is for the public. It's for all of us. And it's trying to

01:33:43.500 quell the conspiracy theories that think that foreign governments are behind them. They're

01:33:46.620 showing this guy has admitted it. There's no ties to anyone else. He did it for a clear motive. He

01:33:52.080 was upset at Charlie Kirk for stuff he said. He decided to play God, take matters into his own

01:33:57.920 hands and he wanted to win the affections of twigs and live happily ever after together he

01:34:02.680 thought he'd get away with it he was already uh you know pretty much just saying oh his concern

01:34:08.020 was not necessarily that they'd find the gun and tie it to him and he would get convicted it was

01:34:11.800 oh my father is going to be upset that grandpa's gun is not back oh wow so yeah not good i mean

01:34:19.320 like i how do we like i don't know maybe i'm just being naive but it's like how does somebody who

01:34:27.480 was relatively high functioning up to this point become so cavalier about murder like oh i've been

01:34:36.420 planning it for like a week like a week earlier he got the idea to murder charlie kirk in this

01:34:43.020 and i don't use this favorably but you know what i mean spectacular fashion and then he does it

01:34:50.760 and then it's like oh the grandpa's rifle works great like he's not by anybody else's account

01:34:58.120 some massive sociopath running around torturing animals phil like isn't that one of the biggest

01:35:04.600 mysteries around this case and one of one of the reasons why people have doubts about whether he

01:35:09.520 in fact is the shooter it's like what how did this guy who according to that one video we saw

01:35:15.840 of his mom shortly before he went off to college had, I think he had gotten a scholarship. Now he

01:35:20.880 didn't last at the university to which he'd gotten the scholarship, but he wasn't, you know, prior to

01:35:26.100 this year leading up to the shooting, he seems to have been rather high functioning. And it, you

01:35:31.640 really do have to ask yourself, how, how did this happen? Well, in my opinion, the thing that

01:35:35.940 happened to Tyler Robinson that transformed him from a relatively high functioning individual to

01:35:42.500 a brazen assassin was the normalization of political violence and the violent rhetoric

01:35:52.060 that we hear from so many, particularly on the left, who may take issue with anything that

01:35:59.080 conservatives have to say. Look, it's no secret whatsoever that Charlie Kirk inspired lots of

01:36:06.660 people to think about things and to talk about things. And what he did in life was to try to

01:36:12.400 get people talking to each other so that they can have a free exchange of ideas. But for so many

01:36:18.600 people, that's just not tenable. They want to hear something that someone else says, and if it's

01:36:24.100 different from their point of view, then they believe that it's okay to commit acts of violence

01:36:31.200 or to talk about violence against those people. So that, to me, is the simple explanation. I think

01:36:38.080 it's the one that makes the most sense because, to your point, Megan, there's got to be something

01:36:43.580 that causes someone to snap that way. He doesn't apparently have any other psychiatric disabilities

01:36:49.960 or disorders. He doesn't seem to be like a sociopath. He's not like some of the serial

01:36:54.900 killers that we've seen. He's not like a Koberger type in that sense. This is all about the 0.59

01:37:00.400 normalization, in my opinion, of political violence, and this is how it plays out.

01:37:06.200 Megan, this is Luigi Mangione. I mean, this is the same type of thing.

01:37:11.440 I know. I was thinking of him, too.

01:37:12.720 Yeah. And not only so when you're surprised about how people can be so radicalized, Luigi Mangione from Ivy League schools, no priors.

01:37:20.300 And look what happens to him. And then you see today all these ghouls who are hanging outside the courtroom praising Luigi Mangione and worshiping him, knowing that he did this.

01:37:30.620 It's not like they're saying he didn't do it. He's innocent. No, they're saying, no, this is deserved.

01:37:34.200 This is justified in today's political climate.

01:37:37.720 That line, some hate can't be negotiated out.

01:37:41.720 Just chilling.

01:37:43.160 You know, it's like to believe that and think you have you have the right to end someone's life because they're too hateful to be here.

01:37:54.440 And then to have watched the left defend this for the past 10 months, that Lucy Rodriguez pretending to shoot herself in the neck, she's still teaching children in Chicago.

01:38:07.300 That behavior wasn't too extreme for them to fire her.

01:38:12.280 There is just a collection of people out there that finds this kind of political violence acceptable.

01:38:18.540 It's so deeply disturbing.

01:38:20.220 I wish it were just the shooters.

01:38:22.280 I wish it were, but it's not.

01:38:23.660 There's a collection, like you say, of those who show up at the Luigi hearings who think it's fine, of those who have celebrated Charlie's murder, who at heart think it's fine and actually applaud it, actually are in favor of it.

01:38:36.180 It's sick.

01:38:37.020 Dave, thank you for helping to put people like that behind bars for many, many years.

01:38:41.000 Phil, thanks to you as well.

01:38:42.940 Everybody check them out on MK True Crime, wherever you get your podcasts for free.

01:38:48.280 We're going to come back with more on the hearing with Mark Garagos, Mark Eiglarsh,

01:38:52.400 and Jonna Spilbore.

01:38:54.540 All three of these practice in the criminal arena have been on both sides, at least Mark

01:39:00.220 Eiglarsh has.

01:39:02.460 And we'll get their take on where this is going and show you the latest that's happening

01:39:06.480 inside the courtroom.

01:39:07.800 Our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, says Washington politicians are always getting

01:39:13.060 in your wallet, which you know, and now they're messing with your credit card too.

01:39:18.540 They say your credit card and the security it offers are under attack and that Senators

01:39:22.880 Dick Durbin and Roger Marshall want to change the nation's payment system to benefit corporate

01:39:28.280 megastores like Walmart and Target at the expense of everyday Americans.

01:39:33.600 Credit cards can keep your payments secure and provide rewards that families use to help

01:39:38.020 make everyday purchases much more affordable.

01:39:41.220 We all love that.

01:39:42.240 The Electronic Payments Coalition says the Durbin-Marshall mandates would let corporate

01:39:46.920 megastores, cut corners on credit card processing, routing transactions over cheaper, untested

01:39:52.480 networks with weaker security, and fewer protections. Find out more about this whole

01:39:57.540 situation at guardyourcard.com and consider telling Congress to guard your card.

01:40:16.920 of casino games. What you win is yours to keep.

01:40:19.080 No wagering requirements, instant payouts,

01:40:20.840 and no minimum withdrawals. Hey, I just won!

01:40:23.280 Woohoo! Feel the fun,

01:40:24.940 play, oh Joe. Honey, forget about

01:40:26.760 lasagna. Let's celebrate. 19 plus Ontario

01:40:28.840 only. Please play responsibly. Concerned about your gambling or that of someone

01:40:30.760 close to you? Call 1-866-531-2600

01:40:32.580 or visit connexontario.ca.

01:40:34.420 Alright, full-time thoughts. Craig, who stood out?

01:40:36.880 Brazil's lime cheesecake started bright,

01:40:38.720 didn't let up. Nah, for me, Italian cappuccino

01:40:40.960 was the standout in the box. But if we're

01:40:42.760 talking decadent performance, that's all 0.70

01:40:44.740 France. Chocolate creme brulee had the richest

01:40:46.840 finishes. Canadian fireworks really showed up big too. And Mexico's caramel churro ice cap gave me

01:40:52.420 chills. We are of course talking about Tim's taste of the globe lineup. New globally inspired Tim

01:40:57.260 bits and ice cap flavors available at Tim Hortons for a limited time. Pick some up today and while

01:41:01.800 you're at it, check out Footy Prime Daily. Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some

01:41:07.640 exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly channel

01:41:13.680 And it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda and no apologies.

01:41:18.580 Along with The Megyn Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Drushinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more.

01:41:27.920 It's bold, no BS news, only on The Megyn Kelly Channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.

01:41:34.540 we are back now with mark garagos co-host of in the well on our mk media podcast network

01:41:44.500 mark iglarsh and jana spillbar who host positively legal you can find it all on our mk true crime

01:41:51.600 youtube channel mk true crime just type that in and all these shows will come up jana we were

01:41:56.800 going to get your take on where things stand as of right now katherine nester cannot have

01:42:02.480 a realistic expectation that this case is not going to be bound over for trial. So what I think

01:42:09.740 she's doing, which is pretty clear from this dog and pony show, she is simply setting up now

01:42:16.540 testimony that will become useful when and if this case goes to trial to sort of have police

01:42:23.520 officers and other witnesses tripping over their tongues based on maybe testifying differently at

01:42:28.980 trial than they are now. Now, we don't want that to happen when you're prosecuting this case. But

01:42:34.040 when you get down this granular and you try to get this nitty gritty with these witnesses who

01:42:39.620 are going to have a long time before this case goes to trial, who will have to review their

01:42:43.520 testimony in transcripts before the case goes to trial, that's just an opportunity to chip away

01:42:49.960 in front of what is really going to matter here. And that's a jury. And that goes to the

01:42:54.720 identification of Tyler Robinson, too. She's probably preserving those objections because

01:42:59.920 that's an argument better made or that's evidence better laid before a jury. Do they have the right

01:43:06.800 guy? That's that argument is going to fall flat in front of this judge, but it may not fall flat

01:43:11.860 in front of 12 strangers down the road. You know, I was asking my earlier panel,

01:43:19.140 How do they prove that this is Tyler Robinson in these videos, arriving at the campus at

01:43:25.340 830, leaving at 925, coming back a little after 10 on foot, coming in an outfit change,

01:43:32.140 now limping because prosecutors are going to argue he's got a long gun down the leg

01:43:37.160 of his pants and then ultimately on that roof.

01:43:40.440 And one of the things we haven't really seen anything about or heard anything about is

01:43:46.040 cell phone evidence or the data from the car. You know, like we saw in Alec Murdoch. You know,

01:43:55.600 we heard so much about that crime thanks to his car. Your car is spying on you these days. So

01:44:01.440 what do you make of that? How how helpful do you anticipate those other items could be?

01:44:06.800 Okay, so I equate the video that we're seeing now to I don't know, like bloodshot eyes in a DUI case

01:44:13.700 That in and of itself wouldn't necessarily prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt.

01:44:17.840 It's just one piece of the puzzle.

01:44:20.220 The other evidence, like the DNA and the confession, will definitely go a long way towards increasing the chances of him being convicted at trial, assuming there is one.

01:44:29.740 The absence of cell phone data either is because they haven't yet put it in or they better as hell have an explanation from one of their experts as to why for some reason they don't have it in this case, because people have come to expect it.

01:44:44.880 Well, especially because we know he was texting with Lance Twiggs, I mean, allegedly later that evening about allegedly having done it.

01:44:52.760 So, I mean, if that's true, he should have had his cell phone or a laptop on him, both of which would be potentially traceable.

01:44:58.840 and should tell us exactly where he was and when.

01:45:03.760 Shouldn't they, Mark Garagos?

01:45:04.840 It's very hard to hide your tracks these days.

01:45:09.780 That's correct, which is in most people who have a couple of neurons firing,

01:45:14.740 if you're committing a crime, you're not going to take your phone with you

01:45:19.500 or you're going to have what prosecutors love to call a burner phone with you

01:45:24.420 that doesn't have a smartphone feature of some kind that's traceable.

01:45:29.440 But if he planned this, the prosecutor is going to argue if they don't have cell phone evidence

01:45:36.460 or if the phone is sitting in one particular spot during the time that the shooting took place,

01:45:43.760 they're going to say he didn't take it with him.

01:45:46.200 And that'll be the explanation for it.

01:45:48.420 If they have the cell phone evidence in the data and the triangulation and the pinging off the towers and also the GPS feature, then they may just use that coming later on as kind of the coup de grace.

01:46:03.300 They may have a so-called summary witness who will lay it all out at the end.

01:46:08.180 But I think that's coming later. I think you're right, because it's not listed on the items that they anticipate introducing at this preliminary hearing, which, again, they only need to convince this judge that they have probable cause to believe that Tyler Robinson committed this crime.

01:46:22.900 They don't have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

01:46:24.900 The standards of evidence are relaxed.

01:46:27.020 It's just a much different proceeding than an actual jury trial would be, and the standard

01:46:31.920 is different too.

01:46:32.920 Here's another video.

01:46:33.860 This is a testimony that was received not long ago showing another piece of the trail.

01:46:40.000 We showed earlier the video of him allegedly arriving at 8.30 and then leaving at 9.25,

01:46:45.920 and now here's more testimony from this witness who's been walking us through all the videos

01:46:51.820 they have allegedly of tyler robinson check it out and and what time is this it's just afternoon

01:46:59.080 about 12 15 on what day on december sorry december september 10th 2025 what what just happened or

01:47:08.560 what did we just see happen the individual actually kind of rolls over the railing onto

01:47:14.120 to the roof of the Loci building.

01:47:15.560 All right, go ahead, sir.

01:47:20.320 And again, in the top left corner,

01:47:21.620 the individual is now seen running across

01:47:23.420 the rooftop of the Loci building

01:47:26.780 to what would be the southwest corner of the building,

01:47:31.820 crouching down and then crawling

01:47:33.340 to the corner of the building.

01:47:38.500 And this is at what time?

01:47:42.120 Around 12.23.

01:47:44.120 i think the time stamp on the video is 12 22 on the 10th on september 10th yes 2025

01:47:52.460 we're clear this is the roof of the low sea building correct okay can you still see that

01:47:58.460 individual uh yes you can laying prone that is playing prone i mean wait what'd you say garagos

01:48:07.180 that individual both the questions and the answers but to describe the individual

01:48:12.780 Mm hmm. But we've seen the close up video of the individual and he's wearing the same outfit as, you know, the one that they would later say is the shooter.

01:48:24.520 And please help us identify him who they say is Tyler Robinson.

01:48:27.760 I just think like there's going to be there's this is how it's done, is it not?

01:48:32.520 I mean, you guys tell me, but like if you're a prosecutor, you've got to cobble together bit by bit.

01:48:38.600 Tyler Robinson's car re-entered the UVU campus at whatever, right before 1215.

01:48:44.100 The shooting happened at 1223.

01:48:45.980 They've got him on the roof for this figure who now looks exactly like Tyler Robinson, who's returned.

01:48:51.580 We've got his vehicle.

01:48:52.720 Perhaps they have vehicle of him or video of him getting out of his vehicle.

01:48:56.340 I'm not exactly sure whether they I haven't seen that.

01:48:58.580 I've only seen him show up in his vehicle at 830, leave at 925 that they said he came back at 10 a.m.

01:49:03.900 And then he came back again. He left and then came back. It could have been on foot.

01:49:08.540 But in any event, they're trying to establish that it's him. He changed his outfit.

01:49:11.700 Now he's got the long gun. It's down his pants.

01:49:13.780 Now we've got video of somebody who looks an awful lot like that figure who was just limping on camera,

01:49:17.540 who looks exactly like him on top of a roof, lying down, lying prone.

01:49:22.040 And they're going to have the moment of the shooting as well.

01:49:24.820 we've shown them just today we've shown on the audience of the video of the shooter then running

01:49:29.580 off the roof jumping down i mean this is very unusual jonna to have the entire crime

01:49:34.660 on tape like this is kind of a prosecution dream yeah it is because you can't swing a dead cat

01:49:42.360 without being on video these days and this is a classic circumstantial case and the fact that

01:49:48.720 it's a capital case doesn't change that i mean how often do we have uh criminal cases where we

01:49:54.200 see the person shoot the victim. It does happen sometimes, but it doesn't happen always. There

01:49:59.060 are plenty of other crimes where we have to piece it together because nobody is an eyewitness to the

01:50:04.040 actual event that is the crime. And this is going to be one of them. And again, here we here we are

01:50:10.240 in the in the preliminary stage, literally, of this case where, you know, I'm a little surprised

01:50:16.180 that the prosecutor isn't holding back something. They should really be doing a bare bones and not

01:50:22.380 allowing a five-day dog and pony show for the defense to set this up the way they're doing it.

01:50:27.240 I'm surprised that the prosecution is kind of playing into the defense's hand here that way.

01:50:31.560 There we go. Megan, that's the point. Two things that are very unusual. One,

01:50:36.740 Jonna making some metaphor about swinging a cat. I don't know what she's doing in her spare time.

01:50:41.160 Sorry. I don't get that. And number two, in reality, in real life, and Garagos, I'm sure,

01:50:49.460 would say the same and jonna this would be a two-hour hearing hearsay's admissible let's just

01:50:55.480 get through it did the crime probably occur is it probably him that's the lowest standard probable

01:51:01.620 cause we're done now i was okay with it because i was like god there's a lot of conspiracy theorists

01:51:09.000 out there they all think he's not guilty and then they start doing this trial and then the feedback

01:51:14.280 we're getting on social media and at my law firm where they're calling calling my assistant saying

01:51:19.440 I'm a nut for giving legal analysis, suggesting that there might be evidence that he's guilty.

01:51:24.420 People are either not watching or they don't want to hear. So what's the point? If it's not

01:51:29.840 helping the public, then get through it in two hours and prove it to a jury, which is the only 0.58

01:51:34.160 thing that damn matters. But interesting, you know, to the end, to the end on Kohlberger,

01:51:39.620 we had Kohlberger truthers. You know, the guy pleaded guilty to quadruple homicide.

01:51:46.080 and still we had truthers who were like no it wasn't him i was like yeah i in my experience

01:51:55.360 you just a true conspiracy theorist and not everybody who doubts tyler robinson's guilt

01:52:01.140 is a conspiracy theorist some some are but a true conspiracy theorist can never be convinced

01:52:06.660 out of the conspiracy it does not matter what you show to them so you raise an interesting point

01:52:12.500 that if if this really is for conspiracy theorists in the truest sense of that term,

01:52:18.340 they're wasting their time. But if it's for jury pool members who may just be confused or have

01:52:25.200 doubts and the prosecution's convinced if they see some of this tape, they won't have them and

01:52:30.340 could potentially serve once the jury is chosen. Maybe it's different. You know, I mean, that's a

01:52:35.480 miscarriage of justice. That shouldn't happen. The purpose should not be to poison the potential

01:52:40.480 jury pool. If it's to, you know, or I think they'd argue on poison. It shouldn't. It should

01:52:47.340 have nothing to do with that. It shouldn't. It shouldn't be to influence the jury pool in any

01:52:53.680 respect. That's not due process. Period. Go ahead, Garagos. Well, the the interesting thing is

01:53:00.680 I've I've evolved, if you will, on cameras in the courtroom. I now fervently believe that you should

01:53:09.480 have cameras in the courtroom for trials. I think that it's vital, especially what I call

01:53:15.260 supersized trials like this. You should have cameras in the courtroom. I think, and I agree

01:53:21.680 with Jonna and Mark, and actually Phil was also talking about it along with Dave, the prosecution

01:53:28.440 could put this case on in minutes. I wouldn't even say hours. I mean, I used to have a friend

01:53:35.700 who was a DA who used to see how few questions he could ask in order to get somebody held to

01:53:42.860 answer. And I think his winning one was, what happened next? What happened next?

01:53:47.960 Please hold the answer. But I think the prosecution's calculation is that they want

01:53:55.740 to make this appear to be a slam dunk case for whatever reason. I won't go into their motives,

01:54:01.920 because all this does is give the defense the ability to engage in what the defense should be

01:54:09.240 doing, which is exactly what they are doing during this preliminary hearing. What I do,

01:54:14.520 I'm sure what Mark and Jonna do. You presented with a series of witnesses, you're going to

01:54:20.160 question, you're going to test, you're going to push. However, to also their point, this is not

01:54:27.540 the trial. So it is improper to try to influence a jury pool. But from a defense standpoint,

01:54:35.080 that jury pool is overwhelmingly already has a prejudgment rate of guilt. The one kind of niche,

01:54:43.780 if you will, is kind of the, you call them the truthers, I would just call them the tinfoil 0.95

01:54:50.940 hat wearers who generally until they hear the words out of somebody's mouth do not believe it 0.98

01:54:58.700 no matter what you present and even then right ai generated not real yeah or or just like forced

01:55:06.600 into it under threat of what i don't know how people say kohlberger didn't you know it's like i

01:55:11.200 i'm done i don't feel the need to reason with those people you know it's like okay good take

01:55:16.640 care like believe whatever the hell you want i don't care he's in jail that's the important thing

01:55:20.640 It's actually, I think, to their point, I think the I think this backfires on the prosecution in a lot of ways.

01:55:27.400 Ultimately, it may not make any difference, but it certainly is not moving the ball forward for them in terms of those who believe he's guilty aren't going to come away from this having their minds changed.

01:55:40.460 those who i know conspiracy well that's that's what makes me sad because you know like i see

01:55:47.040 some of my friends like fervently retweeting some of these segments and these videos being like

01:55:52.920 you see and they're not showing it to their audience on x or elsewhere to show them what's

01:55:58.740 happening at the hearing to say this is what the prosecution has this is how they're stitching

01:56:02.280 together the case they're tweeting it to say this disproves this piece of whatever conspiracy theory

01:56:09.980 This disproves this. It's like you are wasting your time and your breath. Like one thing I know

01:56:17.980 from 20 plus years in news is there is no disproving a conspiracy theory in the mind of a

01:56:25.880 true conspiracy theorist. It's not possible. They will just continue moving the goalposts.

01:56:32.620 And then when you ask them to sit across from you and explain how it all went down,

01:56:38.420 like how was this person controlled by whom how would they argue this how how did they get control

01:56:45.280 what is the evidence of it how like they can't do it they will just get out of bounds because

01:56:50.880 it's just the way the mind works and part of the issue is we've had so many conspiracy theories

01:56:58.020 come true over the past few years you know like we we did find out that covid was from a lab

01:57:06.820 And it wasn't from a pangolin in some wet market. We were lied to about that. We did find out that

01:57:12.860 the vaccine caused myocarditis and other issues, especially in young teenage boys, which we were 0.98

01:57:18.540 fucking lied to about it. We did find out that the six foot rule of not getting close to one 0.89

01:57:22.820 another was totally made up and had no basis in science trademarked. We did find out that

01:57:28.660 Jay Bhattacharya was not some conspiracy theorist. He was a legitimate doctor who was raising real

01:57:34.660 concerns about whether we should just do focused protection on the elderly and not quarantine

01:57:39.560 masses, the masses across America and the globe. Like COVID in particular was it was an experience

01:57:45.900 in which conspiracy theories wound up all being true. And the real nutcases were the ones in

01:57:55.140 government power lying to us. There's a real hangover from that. Right. And like people

01:58:01.440 disbelieving official narratives. It's so true. As one who was litigating during that entire 0.62

01:58:10.940 COVID period, I mean, I remember the restaurants, outdoor restaurants, and having to fight that

01:58:17.120 fight and sue the government. And to quote Gorsuch, this idea that this case out of Boston,

01:58:23.340 Jacobson, U.S. Supreme Court case became a towering presence. The problem that COVID presented

01:58:29.720 is that people who are already had mental health issues,

01:58:34.520 it amplified those issues.

01:58:36.540 And people who didn't have mental health issues,

01:58:40.220 who were trying to rationally examine stuff,

01:58:44.640 were basically kind of forced in or lumped in with the others.

01:58:48.500 And it is unfortunate, COVID, to your point,

01:58:52.300 I mean, that was one of the best 90 seconds summaries

01:58:55.440 I've heard since listening to Carola talk about it,

01:58:58.940 The COVID did an enormous amount of damage to the U.S., and specifically in California, where I am.

01:59:10.000 California just became kind of unmoored from reality and rationality.

01:59:16.060 I mean, when you think back to bulldozing the beaches or arresting a guy on a paddleboard,

01:59:22.460 I mean, it sounds insane now, but at the time it was, you know, you were pilloried if you disagreed with it.

01:59:30.520 And that lays the foundation for now kind of this taking a circumstantial evidence case, which, by the way, the law says it.

01:59:39.460 There are two reasonable interpretations, the one that points towards innocence.

01:59:43.220 But we've lost kind of this ability collectively to believe what is reasonable or rational at a

01:59:52.080 certain level. There's a couple of other things just just to add, you know, the Epstein

01:59:57.340 controversy where people believe that there really was some elite cabal covering up for

02:00:03.000 other elites so that they wouldn't go down. And then there was a revolt when the administration

02:00:07.640 didn't want to release any more Epstein documents, but it was done. And look what happened.

02:00:11.900 A bunch of people went down. You know, that U.K. official, I don't remember his name, but he fell. The U.K.s had actually a lot more accountability on Epstein than we have over here in America. But look what happened with Bill Gates. He got humiliated. Some others got exposed. Obama's former White House counsel got exposed.

02:00:33.460 Like bit by bit, we did learn. No, there is a cabal of people who are very connected to him and seem like dirtbags who did deserve to be exposed.

02:00:43.620 And with more and more pushing, they were. But we were all told that's a conspiracy theory, too, about Jeffrey Epstein's like, OK, this is like it's just annoying.

02:00:54.040 And look, the thing on Israel, like that's underlying this whole thing.

02:00:58.560 And I feel like I'm in a unique position to speak to this because it's like Charlie and

02:01:04.620 I were completely aligned on Israel all along and up to the day he was killed, where we 0.59

02:01:09.480 were very, very pro-Israel, but we were starting to have doubts because of their behavior in 0.67

02:01:13.340 Gaza and how extended and egregious it was and just how the overkill, again, to use that

02:01:18.320 same word. 0.70

02:01:19.240 And we hadn't abandoned Israel as supporters, but we were becoming more critical.

02:01:23.480 And we both felt a need to make room in the GOP for Israel skeptics, which is what young Republicans feel that they're they're very skeptical, not of Israel and the Israeli people, but of this government and its behavior.

02:01:36.920 And Charlie was having doubts about Israel and was under pressure not to, not to abandon

02:01:44.620 Israel as a cause and is in writing.

02:01:48.380 And on the record with me on this show and elsewhere, not appreciating, appreciating

02:01:53.800 being called an anti-Semite, saying he might have to leave the Jewish cause entirely, saying

02:01:59.560 he wasn't going to submit to the pressure from certain Jewish donors to not waver at

02:02:04.240 all in Israel and that he didn't appreciate that at all. Correspondence directly with Netanyahu.

02:02:08.940 And so, look, understandably, some people are going to say, did they have a motive here?

02:02:15.400 I think that's a fair question. But now when we're getting into real live court,

02:02:20.720 where, as you three know better than anyone, we have to deal in evidence. This is not an OK time

02:02:27.600 for who who might have been on Charlie's bad side, who might have been threatened by Charlie,

02:02:32.680 who might have been mad at Charlie. We have to talk about evidence at this stage. It is time to

02:02:38.860 put up or shut up. And what we see is no evidence, no evidence that will lead us to believe anyone

02:02:46.700 other right now than Tyler Robinson was responsible for this cause. But I understand the skeptics. I

02:02:52.720 do, because I, as Charlie's friend, want every leaf to be turned over. And I've been fine with

02:02:59.240 doing that all along. But you know, this is where the rubber meets the road, right guys, where it's

02:03:04.680 like, in lots of cases, you have theories about who hated the decedent, who besides my client

02:03:12.140 wanted him dead. How could I potentially do a head fake or like point direction, you know,

02:03:18.120 for the jury members over there instead of at my guy. And the court won't allow you to do that

02:03:24.280 unless you have a good faith basis to do it

02:03:28.320 or actual evidence to justify it.

02:03:30.640 You can't just do wild goose chase over here

02:03:33.180 because I've got a suspicion.

02:03:35.160 That's just not how it works.

02:03:36.520 And in our discussions here,

02:03:38.400 I think it's really important we stay fact-based.

02:03:41.400 What's admissible?

02:03:42.420 What can they admit?

02:03:44.160 What is his defense team actually arguing?

02:03:47.420 They have a greater reason than anyone,

02:03:50.200 podcaster or otherwise,

02:03:51.460 to get the attention off of Tyler Robinson. And we haven't heard anything from that defense team,

02:03:58.300 which does seem talented about it not being Tyler. So anyway, thoughts on it, Megan, can I put I want

02:04:05.380 to put my tinfoil hat on for a minute and I never have a tinfoil hat. But just for argument's sake,

02:04:09.860 in terms of the evidence in this case and what will come forth, the one the chum, for lack of

02:04:16.420 a better word that i think conspiracy theorists can sink their teeth into that we know so far

02:04:21.520 are the weird text messages why because they're too detailed for somebody who wants to commit a

02:04:29.900 heinous crime and get away with it to be texting your your furry lover all of the details of the

02:04:35.980 grandfather's gun and this and here's where i put it and look under your keyboard and do all that

02:04:39.600 stuff when you know damn well as a 23 year old you know damn well that this information is gettable

02:04:45.760 Why would you almost give yourself up digitally if somebody weren't putting you up to?

02:04:53.940 Now, I don't believe that is the case.

02:04:55.640 But if I were a conspiracy theorist, I'm going to be hanging my hat on those text messages because there's just too much there there.

02:05:04.080 Also, so I have a dear friend who I love.

02:05:07.120 She's she's a doll and she tends to think more conspiratorially on some of these issues.

02:05:13.820 And she she keeps me abreast of what she's hearing and she thinks on this.

02:05:18.520 And I actually really appreciate it because it's a good window into, you know, how people who are very skeptical of the theory that Tyler Robinson did this are thinking.

02:05:27.140 And she just texted me that these messages are not believable and no one believes this is why he was taken out.

02:05:34.820 Um, it literally goes on from there, but those messages are a problem for people, um, who want

02:05:42.780 to convince us it was Tyler Robinson because they do, they sound fake. They just sound, they do,

02:05:47.720 they sound fake. They sound fake. And to John's point, guys, they do have, it's like a prosecution's

02:05:54.680 dream. It's my rifle. This is where I hit it. Remember when I engraved the bullets with the

02:06:01.620 following memes like it's it's exactly what you'd write if you wanted to ensure his conviction

02:06:06.720 well and then layer over that somebody else was there who gets carried off and arrested

02:06:14.080 who later confesses layer over that there are pre-existing chats that are memorialized in some

02:06:23.580 fashion which look to be a conspiratorial and you i i would not be so sure that in jury selection

02:06:36.860 you that a stealth juror this is usually the defense's worst nightmare but in this case it

02:06:43.700 could be just like in luigi the prosecution's worst nightmare they get a juror on yes not going

02:06:49.840 to buy anything that the prosecution is selling because it just looks too neat too convenient

02:06:55.960 and doesn't kind of answer all of the questions i have a theory megan let me tell you something

02:07:01.980 i have a theory they that i know i know a few people who are you know like my this one friend

02:07:07.500 who's very well off she's very successful um who i met years ago she was q anon she was part of q

02:07:17.180 like she believed all the theories about like the pizza place and the democrat like all of it

02:07:22.900 and um like pretty much every conspiracy theory and i never knew that eyeglarsh until she had a

02:07:28.580 dinner party at her house and we all went and she kind of started confiding in me and i remember

02:07:32.120 being shocked i'm like she she believes every single one of them i know a few people who are

02:07:37.500 like this and they are brilliant they are very successful this is not like there is a very good

02:07:45.040 chance a few of these will wind up wind up in the jury pool and being considered for the actual jury

02:07:51.040 here. This is something the prosecution absolutely has to be paying attention to. Sure. You listen,

02:07:58.840 we think we know people. We only know what they show us. And even then, you really never get down

02:08:05.780 to it. My theory in this case is that these defense lawyers are doing their job ensuring due process

02:08:12.940 by challenging every piece of evidence, by making all the right objections.

02:08:18.520 But, Megan, you're thinking, and many people are thinking, well, so what does this lead to?

02:08:22.700 What type of successful defense is that somehow leading to?

02:08:26.740 And I don't think that they even think that it's going to lead to that.

02:08:30.540 They're defining winning by doing everything they can to challenge the evidence.

02:08:34.700 And then ultimately, not not possibly, but when this judge says I'm finding probable cause, which is 100 percent certainty, they will then proceed to buy their, you know, their their their protective knee coverings, get down on their knees and beg the prosecution to consider waiving the death penalty.

02:08:55.160 And that, to me, would be a victory for the defense.

02:08:58.220 Prosecution has no reason, though, to do that.

02:09:01.520 I disagree.

02:09:02.060 unless erica kirk and charlie's parents wanted them to it starts there i haven't heard that

02:09:10.000 they're tremendous advocates for the death penalty so the fact that that door is even

02:09:14.060 cracked open a little bit means that there's a possibility that the door's not cracked open

02:09:19.840 erica kirk has said i don't want that on my conscience i don't want to be involved in that

02:09:24.480 okay like i'm leaving that that that means it's open megan in our business unless if you have a

02:09:30.680 victim saying, no, anything less than the death penalty, like the Parkland, Marjory Stoneman

02:09:35.540 Douglas parents, they wanted the death penalty for Nicholas Cruz. That was it. There was no

02:09:40.100 discussion about resolving it to a life sentence, which ultimately probably would have saved them a

02:09:44.820 lot of time and energy. In this particular case, there are more generic reasons. I don't disagree

02:09:50.420 with Jonna and those who think that the evidence is overwhelming. They'll get the conviction. But

02:09:54.400 you've got 12 jurors, all who must unanimously find that the aggravating circumstances are

02:10:01.860 greater than the mitigators. And death is very different. It's very unique. It takes one Utah

02:10:07.680 juror to say, yeah, I think that what he did was abhorrent, but I think you should live out his 0.88

02:10:13.140 days in jail, be worse for him, let him rot in prison. I'm not going to send him to death row

02:10:17.760 or whatever their reasons are. And so it's not a slam dunk. It's not a guarantee. What is a

02:10:23.040 guarantee is him saying I'm guilty. I'm waiving all my appeals. I don't want to have any more

02:10:29.140 notoriety. Not that he would say that, but we're saying that to him. Good riddance. Go away. No

02:10:34.140 more expense. No more time. No more energy. Guaranteed life sentence. And then he'll probably

02:10:39.380 think he's going to do it. I don't think he's going to I don't think he's going to do that

02:10:42.980 because his lawyer should talk. He thinks he's got a shot. I think he's got a shot. And I also

02:10:48.820 If you read those text messages, if that's really Tyler Robinson writing, he doesn't give a shit about dying. 0.98

02:10:53.880 He's like, if you read this, I'm either dead or I'm heading to prison for a long time. 0.99

02:10:58.260 I think he was prepared to die that day. 0.99

02:11:00.240 Go ahead, Garagos. 0.99

02:11:01.080 Things change.

02:11:02.860 The lawyers are not going to let him do it because absent agreement by DOJ.

02:11:08.800 Remember, unlike Luigi, where you have the federal backstop to the state, there is no double jeopardy.

02:11:16.500 If he pleads the DOJ to a life, the DOJ can come in instantly and just use that and go

02:11:23.920 go for broke.

02:11:25.460 And they would work that out, Garagos.

02:11:27.000 They would all work that out.

02:11:28.000 He wouldn't plead unless he knew that he's getting a pass in the fence.

02:11:30.860 This Department of Justice agreed to the pass.

02:11:35.040 I to me, that's they already.

02:11:37.760 I they won't.

02:11:39.020 Don Jr. is sitting in the front row of this preliminary hearing right now with his new

02:11:44.100 bride watching every moment.

02:11:46.100 He was extremely close with Charlie. There's zero chance. Imagine. Imagine a scenario worse than a five day preliminary hearing. Imagine five, 10 years down the road after he's convicted, after he's given the death penalty. The appellate court reverses based upon something that was done in jury selection, whatever it is. And then we come back and we do it all over again. That's possible.

02:12:09.760 Who cares?

02:12:10.620 Oh, OK.

02:12:11.320 So what?

02:12:11.840 Who cares?

02:12:12.380 Like, remember the outrage when Kohlberger was allowed to plead and didn't get the death

02:12:16.820 penalty, which he clearly deserved. 1.00

02:12:18.980 That was utter bullshit. 1.00

02:12:20.480 We can't be put in that same position. 1.00

02:12:22.020 Go ahead, Garagos.

02:12:22.740 I'm just going to say, remember the reason that the feds did not get involved in they

02:12:27.380 publicly said it's not like I'm talking directly to somebody who's confiding in me.

02:12:32.900 They said Utah's got a death penalty, unlike New York, where similar to California, the

02:12:38.740 death penalty basically does not exist. We came in in New York because of that. We didn't come in

02:12:45.600 to Utah because they mean it when they say they've got a death penalty. That's the backstop. That's

02:12:51.500 the only reason they didn't take federal jurisdiction over this. And Megan, a win for 0.62

02:12:58.040 the defense here is simply not getting a unanimous death verdict. That is a win for the defense.

02:13:04.080 I don't think they know they know they don't have a prayer of an acquittal. I don't see that happening any at any point. But if they have one juror who can't sentence to death, that is a win. And that might be a long plea, as we like to call it. And maybe that's the angle of this defense team at this point.

02:13:22.480 If I if I were the defense lawyer, I'd be going for jury nullification. I'd be going for hung jury. All I need is one who thinks that Tyler Robinson was manipulated, whether it was by the CIA and an MK Ultra, which I've seen that by Israel, who, you know, somehow swooped in and got and controlled his mind or he wasn't actually the shooter because there was the exploding microphone, whatever.

02:13:47.700 There's a lot of theories out there that I'm the defense lawyer.

02:13:50.980 I'm 100 percent going for that.

02:13:52.940 Like, I've got to find the one jury and I'd have to have a consultation with jury consultants.

02:13:57.600 Like, what should I look for?

02:13:59.540 Like, and Megan, raise your hand if you think we didn't land on the moon.

02:14:02.580 And you know what?

02:14:03.020 Like, I'd be looking for jurors who are like, yeah, Megan, you know why?

02:14:06.940 You know why there's typically two different lawyers on a death penalty case? 0.59

02:14:11.380 Because the one who would have to argue the garbage that you just talked about, the most 0.95

02:14:15.940 ridiculous theories which will land him with a conviction within an hour there'd have to be a 0.99

02:14:21.800 different person than to get up there and make arguments about why he should live instead of die 0.94

02:14:27.140 because the first lawyer explain this garagos made this point yesterday and we didn't really

02:14:31.360 flesh it out keep keep going why so describe exactly the position you'd be putting yourself

02:14:36.860 in so if you stood up there and your main defense was basically did like head fake over to mk ultra

02:14:42.860 the CIA, the FBI, Israel, whatever. Okay. I had a death case recently. I litigated it for five

02:14:48.280 years. Death, death, death. These Florida prosecutors wanted death. And quite frankly,

02:14:52.400 the facts probably warranted them. It was really that bad. It wasn't until the 11th hour,

02:14:58.200 ultimately, when we did motions and showed that like they're doing, they're talented lawyers,

02:15:04.000 they're fighters, whatever, that maybe that greased the wheels and ultimately we got what

02:15:08.120 wanted. But I couldn't have been the one if we actually went to trial to then make the arguments

02:15:13.240 about how he had a lack of prior record, how he had mental illness, how he said, God bless you

02:15:18.860 to a few people and helped them across the street, whatever you're going to throw out there to

02:15:21.940 mitigate. I shouldn't have been that same one because with the same mouth that that spewed

02:15:26.900 bullshit to try to convince them that they're innocent. I can't be the one trying to save his 0.99

02:15:31.720 life. Well, that far, I would say you're zealously defending in a guilt phase, and that's what the

02:15:38.520 client is entitled to, a zealous defense. And you're arguing they haven't proved their case.

02:15:45.000 I'm giving you an alternative explanation. I'm telling you this. I'm telling you that.

02:15:49.340 If a jury rejects that, which they must in order to get to the penalty phase,

02:15:54.940 they basically, there's an idea. You are the voice of the client. They've given you,

02:15:59.420 you're there they've already given you their verdict so to speak on your authenticity and

02:16:06.200 everything else then to get up and say hey i was just kidding let's talk about let's talk about

02:16:13.080 this that and the other thing and why you should um uh it's it's an impossible human situation i

02:16:19.720 think to navigate correct but wait why is it inconsistent to say uh okay tyler robinson didn't

02:16:26.420 do it. He didn't do it. Somebody else did it. Don't believe those tapes. We can't tell who that

02:16:31.240 is. This is bullshit. There's no hard proof. Somebody could have stolen that gun. His DNA's 1.00

02:16:36.820 on it because it's his gun, not necessarily because he shot it. And then they say, we disagree. He's

02:16:43.320 guilty. And then you get to the death penalty phase and you say, why is it inconsistent to say

02:16:48.700 Tyler Robinson is actually a really sweet guy. He spent, you know, 22 of his 23 years being a good

02:16:57.140 citizen, loving son, university. He got, he got manipulated, you know, by the internet. He got,

02:17:05.000 you know, pulled into assassination culture and, you know, don't hold that against him because

02:17:11.200 look, he was a boy scout and he did all these nice things. Because your credibility by that

02:17:14.680 point is out the window. You've challenged good, decent, honorable police officers. You're trying

02:17:21.000 to make X look like Y. Creating reasonable doubt could be really challenging, especially when

02:17:28.440 things are so straightforward and you have to convince jurors that they're not. What you're

02:17:32.200 seeing is not actually that straightforward. Someone manufactured the words that were allegedly

02:17:37.180 sent to his boyfriend. And then all of a sudden, you get up there with that same mouth and then

02:17:43.840 talk about actual things that he doesn't have a prior record, that he had some mental illness.

02:17:49.500 And here's the expert that claims that he that whatever you're going to put up there to mitigate,

02:17:53.660 it's very hard to do it with the same voice that that that minutes ago they were insulted by,

02:18:00.080 you know. But Megan, the the inconsistency. I'm just kind of laughing, picturing you.

02:18:04.460 I've never seen you uncomfortable. It would be kind of funny to see you actually feeling

02:18:09.160 uncomfortable. I wouldn't show it just on the inside because of that. But you're making your

02:18:14.980 case. I get it. I'm getting it. Go ahead, John. The inconsistency is baked into the cake, right?

02:18:19.780 Because when you have these death penalty cases and I'm trying to remember, I don't know if it's

02:18:23.560 Jody Arias or one of them and maybe even Scott Peterson, Garagos, where you put up a defense

02:18:28.900 because you truly believe that your client is innocent. And then in order to save their life,

02:18:33.520 they have to present the mitigating evidence or it's not going to happen. You have to you have

02:18:37.940 to the client sometimes themselves have to say, oh, yeah, I'm really sorry. After you spent days

02:18:43.280 or weeks or months trying to convince a jury that they're completely innocent in order to live,

02:18:49.720 they have to now kind of admit their guilt is still trying to convince us that Scott Peterson

02:18:55.740 is innocent. We can't use that as an example. He still thinks he's going to be home in time

02:19:01.140 for Christmas. Wait, I wanted to tell you guys something is happening in court right now that

02:19:05.660 relevant to the very discussion that we're having. Um, there, there's a debate about whether they can

02:19:13.520 read, um, the testimony of, okay, I want to make sure it's a pastor. The prosecution wanted to read

02:19:25.340 the testimony of pastor David Englehart about Christian belief. The, this is via the Federalist

02:19:32.420 and its correspondent in court reckon these from Englehart about Christian belief, the beliefs and

02:19:39.560 goals of Turning Point USA and the religious and political beliefs of Charlie Kirk. The defense

02:19:44.720 objected. This is another defense lawyer named Novak who says the state is using this testimony

02:19:51.300 in a way to get the quote victim targeting enhancement to lay the groundwork for Robinson's

02:19:58.160 reasons for targeting Kirk specifically. Novak argues that political expression is outside the

02:20:03.580 statutory relevance needed, which is separate and distinct from a personal attribute. Do you

02:20:08.500 understand what he's saying? Does anybody know what that means? For the special, I assume for

02:20:12.620 the special circ, and he's saying the special circumstance that's attached to the murder,

02:20:17.180 which makes him death penalty eligible. And he's arguing that you can't use.

02:20:22.640 Like a personal attribute would be he's gay and he got targeted for being gay or he's black and

02:20:27.620 he got targeted for being black, as opposed to he was a Christian who was religious. I think that's

02:20:33.700 okay. I get it. I think that's what the argument is over. And then here's the quote from defense

02:20:39.540 attorney Novak. I understand in today's world that there is a crossover between religion and

02:20:44.700 politics. I think we can all acknowledge that, but the legislature and the information here are

02:20:49.120 focused on political expression. So I'm concerned that this affidavit statement of Mr. Englehart

02:20:55.420 goes far beyond the scope of what would be admissible if the state has it to prove that

02:20:59.940 Mr. Robinson targeted Mr. Kirk because of Mr. Robinson's belief or perception concerning Mr.

02:21:06.180 Kirk's political expression. This is not a case about religion, Novak said. Novak said the evidence

02:21:12.340 the state needs to provide is not what Kirk believed, but rather what was in Mr. Robinson's

02:21:19.320 head. So he did not want the affidavit to come in. And it looks like he has succeeded in that

02:21:28.940 because the update was Judge Graff for now has sustained Novak's objection, meaning the state

02:21:36.820 prosecutor cannot read directly from Englehart's testimony. Quoting from it in open court, I fear

02:21:41.720 does risk issues to the constitutional rights of the parties, said the judge. They're talking about

02:21:46.820 closing the court down so that prosecutor mcbride can refer directly to the testimony the state does

02:21:52.320 not want to do so mcbride says he believes the defense is trying to shut down the openness of

02:21:56.520 the proceedings so that the public cannot hear it news media attorney because we also have our

02:22:01.160 own lawyer and they're arguing for our rights uh raymond is arguing that just because an exhibit

02:22:05.780 could be inadmissible does not mean the public cannot see it my god there's so many layers to

02:22:09.920 this this is crazy but this is all about the death penalty right this is all about whether this i

02:22:16.440 I admire this. That would make it a death penalty. And I like this. I like this judge putting aside

02:22:22.240 whether I'm OK with the ruling because I don't have all the facts surrounding it. I love that

02:22:26.240 he's calling balls and strikes and not just appearing to be a judge who's ready to do that,

02:22:32.800 pretending to do that, and then just ruling in favor of the prosecution for everything.

02:22:36.420 He really does seem to want to hear from both sides. He does seem like he cares about the rule

02:22:42.460 of law and i admire him not everything should come in well i have to say it's been it's it's

02:22:47.240 been actually very telling because usually this nester objects to everything the woman that's her 0.99

02:22:51.660 job that's her job and no it's annoying though if she does this in front of a jury they're going to 1.00

02:22:56.880 hate her because juries don't like a non-stop i realize she's got a life to save yeah and delay

02:23:01.340 works in her favor the every day this thing goes on is another day he's alive it's different but i

02:23:05.880 know. But like I'm I'm a jury and I hate her. I'm just saying, like, she's alienating. You ain't 0.94

02:23:13.140 making it on, babe. But she but then he says the judge says, OK, I'll hear argument. You know,

02:23:23.000 she may. And she's like, I stand on my objection. She has no argument. It's like the prosecution's

02:23:29.140 like, great, let's argue it. I'm happy to argue. She's doing her job. She's doing her job so that

02:23:34.180 not if, but when he possibly gets death, they're going to go back and say, did he have

02:23:38.980 effective assistance of counsel? And yeah, she's making all the possible legal objections.

02:23:44.220 And then this is all good.

02:23:45.900 Her job be to like, give him, give him that defense by not doing, not crossing every T

02:23:49.700 or dotting every I like surreptitiously blowing things. So he could argue. I basically, what is

02:23:54.520 it? I AC go ahead, Garrett goes. Yeah, but no, it's not. It's not our job to purposely take a

02:24:00.440 dive though right we just got to make sure she'll get lucky like like alec murdoch and they'll have

02:24:06.180 a court clerk who will unduly influence the jury and that's a good strategy count on that yeah go

02:24:13.220 ahead john we you know let's hope that the angle here isn't to get rid of the the thing that makes

02:24:19.800 this an aggravated murder because without that there is no death penalty and then the defense

02:24:24.360 will have one at the end of this what is going to be a lengthy prelim so hopefully the prosecution

02:24:29.060 has more than one ground for its aggravation in the way that it charged this case.

02:24:35.500 Yeah. Hey, were there kids in attendance? How old were they? Okay, there you go. Isn't that one?

02:24:40.680 Yeah. Well, that's what I mean. He killed them across a crowd. That should be one.

02:24:44.460 So there should be other choices for the prosecution here.

02:24:49.020 Yeah. Besides whatever Christian affiliation or one's political beliefs,

02:24:53.860 which clearly is the motivation. If Tyler did this, it's in writing. But yeah, they have on

02:25:00.760 the witness list, I think a picture of a mother with a baby in a baby stroller. So they clearly

02:25:07.900 are going to try to argue that children were present at the time that this disgusting event

02:25:15.060 happened. So we won't be surprised if we see that. So, all right. In sum, we think the prosecution's

02:25:21.940 getting it done. They could have gotten it done in two hours. Everything beyond that is probably

02:25:26.020 an attempt to manipulate the public narrative, which I think is unacceptable. I think it's

02:25:31.420 unpoisoning the poisoned well just to try to get us back to neutral in the same way the prosecutor

02:25:36.380 felt he had to come out to say, wait a minute, the Daily Mail report about the bullet not matching

02:25:41.880 is not correct. It couldn't conclusively be matched, but it wasn't not matched either.

02:25:48.160 we just couldn't tell it was blown to such smithereens that we weren't able to say one

02:25:52.680 way or another i think he's trying to do that in his presentation here to unpoison the poisoned

02:25:58.840 well as opposed to poison it or put his finger on the scale for himself so that's where it stands 0.78

02:26:04.560 we think it will be held over hey wait wait megan hates the defense lawyer you didn't include that 0.98

02:26:09.040 in the summation we covered that um yes megan thinks that if she i do she's very annoying right 1.00

02:26:13.480 And if she objects like that in front of the jury, she'll turn them all off. 1.00

02:26:16.260 Got that right.

02:26:18.040 And she says, um, every two seconds.

02:26:20.020 She's not articulate. 0.98

02:26:21.180 She's not.

02:26:21.600 I mean, it's just not impressed with her.

02:26:22.780 I don't like unimpressive.

02:26:23.800 All right.

02:26:23.960 Just add that to the to the summation of what we've discussed.

02:26:27.600 Yeah.

02:26:27.840 And she blew it on that on that. 1.00

02:26:29.560 What's the woman who poisoned her husband? 1.00

02:26:31.440 The fentanyl poisoner. 1.00

02:26:33.160 Oh, yeah.

02:26:35.300 Corey Richens.

02:26:36.360 She represented her.

02:26:36.720 Corey Richens.

02:26:37.540 Corey Richens.

02:26:38.640 Yeah.

02:26:39.400 She blew that one. 1.00

02:26:40.660 That was probably.

02:26:41.800 I don't know if that was winnable.

02:26:43.100 But I think Garagos could have walked out with a with an acquittal.

02:26:46.400 There we go. But she she couldn't defense.

02:26:49.260 She's doing a more than workmanlike job. Number one.

02:26:52.280 There we go. It's also it's incredibly stressful for a lawyer to be on camera performing, even correct.

02:27:01.660 But that adds another layer to it. So not for us.

02:27:05.520 Megan, did I ever tell you one time I had a judge chastise me for objecting too much?

02:27:10.380 she actually told me to stop objecting i didn't listen but i don't blame her yeah i must have

02:27:17.460 annoyed her too yeah i don't i don't blame her it's like at that point you just have to have

02:27:23.320 like blanket blank i get it you object to literally every question your rights are preserved for

02:27:27.520 appeal sit down and be quiet and let the thing go forward at one point this judge is going to

02:27:32.860 have to do that to nestor because this cannot keep going like this i i realize you know delay

02:27:37.360 is in her favor but it's gotten to the point of like you want to you want to give her a little

02:27:40.640 a little backhand um okay i gotta go you guys thank you all so much for your commentary everybody

02:27:46.280 be sure to check out mk true crime and subscribe to in the well with garagos and matt murphy and

02:27:52.660 positively legal uh as well as our mk true crime show which is sort of the name brand there anyway

02:27:58.840 lots of true crime offerings and they've been all over this case um this week and will continue to

02:28:05.220 be as well. I got to say, it's been, it's been kind of crazy to watch Erica have to sit through

02:28:12.400 this and have to deal with all of this. And I really, really wish that the people who have

02:28:19.400 doubts about Erica Kirk would just keep them quiet this week. I mean, whether you like her

02:28:26.300 or you don't like her, hopefully the human inside of you can see how difficult this is

02:28:31.780 for her and the family to sit in there and have to listen to this and have to be feet away from

02:28:39.160 Tyler Robinson. And then soon the videotape of the lover and they're removing themselves for

02:28:46.540 the most graphic pieces of the testimony, but they're hearing enough. This is going to be

02:28:51.480 intensely upsetting. And every night Erica goes home to Charlie's two children who have no father

02:28:58.580 and still has to struggle with helping them understand what happened to him.

02:29:04.140 It's just beyond human what is being asked of the family.

02:29:08.380 And I beg for you to keep them in your prayers.

02:29:12.520 Infuse them with strength, with some sort of serenity to get through this,

02:29:17.300 with the ability to keep this in perspective.

02:29:21.020 You know, as Erica said from the beginning,

02:29:22.740 that the real judgment is going to come from God,

02:29:25.520 not from this judge, not from the eventual jury.

02:29:28.580 and that's really what Tyler Robinson should be thinking about each night. That's what should

02:29:35.060 disturb his sleep night after night, answering to his maker. You know, his lawyer may be able

02:29:41.140 to spare him some penalty here or possibly in his best case scenario, even a finding of guilt,

02:29:47.200 though I doubt it. But Tyler Robinson and anybody else who is connected with this crime are going

02:29:53.380 to have to answer to their maker eventually. And from that, they cannot be spared. None of us can.

02:29:58.580 Anyway, I'm thinking a lot about Charlie this week, as I know you have. It's very hard to talk

02:30:06.060 about this case forensically without remembering it's Charlie. Talking about Charlie, you guys

02:30:12.600 know that better than anybody. The listeners to this show, the viewers of this show saw more of

02:30:18.540 Charlie than virtually any other audience did besides his own. All these people out there

02:30:26.740 talking about Charlie, you saw him regularly. You listened to him regularly. If you watch and

02:30:33.020 listen to this show and you knew a lot about Charlie Kirk, his character, his personality,

02:30:38.700 what mattered to him. And I'm sure you're feeling it too. I'm sure you're feeling an intimate

02:30:43.680 connection to this case because you do feel that connection to him. This is like, you know,

02:30:49.780 the guests who come on this show are like family. They're family, like family to me. And I'm sure

02:30:53.640 you feel that as well. So keep his family in your mind and in your prayers. And thank you for that.

02:30:59.980 Thank you for trusting us with the coverage of it as well. We will continue to stream the entire

02:31:04.360 preliminary hearing on our YouTube channel. That's youtube.com slash Megan Kelly. And we'll be back

02:31:09.520 tomorrow with more legal analysis and other news. We'll see you then. Thanks for listening to the

02:31:15.760 Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

02:31:23.640 You

The Megyn Kelly Show - July 07, 2026

Platner Allegation EXPOSES the Media, and the Tyler Robinson Defense REVEALED, with Bevan, Halperin, Aronberg, Holloway, Geragos, Eiglarsh, and Spilbor ｜ Ep. 1354

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript