Platner Allegation EXPOSES the Media, and the Tyler Robinson Defense REVEALED, with Bevan, Halperin, Aronberg, Holloway, Geragos, Eiglarsh, and Spilbor ｜ Ep. 1354
00:00:49.300We are, of course, talking about Tim's taste of the Globe Liner.
00:00:52.180New globally inspired Timbits and ice cap flavors
00:00:54.580available at Tim Hortons for a limited time.
00:00:56.540picks them up today. And while you're at it, check out Footy Prime Daily.
00:01:00.500Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.
00:01:12.180Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. It's day two of the
00:01:16.520Tyler Robinson preliminary hearing in Provo, Utah, where prosecutors are seeking to persuade a judge
00:01:22.120that there is probable cause to believe that Tyler Robinson assassinated Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley
00:01:28.880University on September 10th of last year. We will have the latest in just a moment. We've been
00:01:33.580watching it. It's been on for the past hour. We are streaming it on our YouTube channel. For those
00:01:38.320of you who would like to follow along, youtube.com slash Megan Kelly in its entirety. And we are
00:01:44.480going to be doing substantive coverage of what happened yesterday and this morning in about 20
00:01:50.600minutes or so. I'm going to start with a different story here on our show. But we've got to bring you
00:01:56.100more about this item that was in our AM Update podcast this morning. Graham Plattner, this whole
00:02:03.440thing is imploding. His campaign is imploding. He was the darling of the Democrat Party. He easily
00:02:09.960won the primary to take on Republican Susan Collins in the main Senate race. And Republicans
00:02:14.800have been very worried about this race it's extremely tight extremely tight and susan collins0.95
00:02:21.460is you know she's a stalwart she always seems to manage to pull out these contests they like her
00:02:27.800in maine because she's moderate and so are they uh including the republicans but this guy's sort
00:02:34.180of an insurgent candidate he's he's trumpy in the way that he's outside the mainstream he doesn't
00:02:41.260look like the other candidates he doesn't talk like them he he's more of a populist though a
00:02:48.640leftist populist whereas trump was more of a republican populist and he has a very very good
00:02:56.380chance of unseating her or did until recently i mean he's been again kind of like trump like
00:03:04.040teflon he surrounded uh he survived the scandals like that surrounding his nazi tattoo he had made
00:03:13.080several controversial comments on reddit prior to running allegedly sexted with i mean we were told
00:03:20.440about a dozen women who were not his wife that the campaign said no more than six okay okay but while
00:03:27.900he was married and he only got married in 2023. So this is not ancient history and generally
00:03:35.460mistreating his previous romantic partners. There was a big New York Times expose on how
00:03:42.400those romantic interludes went beyond, you know, bad romances to where one woman, Lindsay Fifield,
00:03:51.280who's a conservative said she had been locked in a room by him she'd been she had her arm twisted
00:03:59.120in a way that was painful and forceful and some other allegations that came out which were quickly
00:04:04.500dismissed by most Democrats who didn't really care and now he's facing allegations of sexual
00:04:11.420assault from a woman he once dated and I have to say just having read the allegations she's0.68
00:04:16.700alleging that he raped her. There's really no distinction. I don't know why they're not using
00:04:21.600the R word. And she is talking about it in a way that's a little odd. You know, like when asked,
00:04:28.500did you say no? She had language like, you know, I used language of non-consent. She's got a sort0.85
00:04:36.760of ethereal way of addressing the issue of consent. But it seems clear if you read her full
00:04:45.060comments and then listened to her on with Jake Tapper yesterday. She, she's saying consent was
00:04:51.820not there and that that was communicated. Um, and it's causing an avalanche of defectors now
00:04:58.460from Graham Plattner. I mean, I think everyone, but Bernie Sanders has abandoned him now just
00:05:04.440about all the people like who had endorsed him and who were standing by him. Even my old pal
00:05:09.520crystal ball, who I really like, she's on the opposite side of the aisle, uh, versus yours
00:05:14.340truly, but she's awesome. She's smart. We go way back. She'd been standing by Graham Plattner.0.99
00:05:20.200She really likes that populist leftist thing. And she today said, yeah, he's got, he's got to drop
00:05:25.120out. Uh, political first reporting yesterday that 41 year old Maine resident, Jenny Razincott is the0.97
00:05:31.940woman alleging Plattner forced her to have sex with him while they were in a relationship, but0.84
00:05:37.200she did not want to have sex with him. He's fall down drunk. She had told him not to come over.0.56
00:05:40.580It was one of those situations. And he he did. He came over. He followed her around the apartment, got her into her bed in her bedroom and forced himself on her.
00:05:52.600That's what she said. She also sat down, as I mentioned, with CNN yesterday and said this to Jake Tapper.
00:05:59.700This has obviously been very difficult for you to talk about for five years.
00:06:04.580and even when you're telling the story
00:16:29.440If you couple that with what I can only see as a catch-and-kill attempt by writing the original story, coupled with Lindsay's very well-documented Twitter posts about how the Times reported this story in a way that seemingly intended to downplay the damage it would do to Graham Plattner.
00:16:47.520There should be New York Times employees, if it passed with prologue for them, they should be out in front of 8th Avenue protesting their own paper.
00:16:58.900They should be calling for a thorough investigation of how such a thing could happen because this is, by their standards,
00:17:07.920it's a massive failure to protect the rights of victims, accused, accusers.
00:17:14.560And and I just it's just mind boggling to me that The New York Times can can operate with impunity and no accountability to what seems clear to be an attempt to, as they often do, favor one party over the other.
00:17:27.940it was it was a catch and kill that's how it i mean the the irony right that's that's the name
00:17:32.740of ronan farrell's book on um what the national inquirer did to protect well trump and harvey
00:17:40.920winestream and and some others and not just the national inquirer but that he talked about that
00:17:45.160practice of catching and then killing the story you get it and then you kill it to protect the
00:17:50.600subject of it and the new york times seems to have clearly done this in the case of graham platner
00:17:55.960And under the auspices of an expose. Right. But now we know, Tom, that the expose was very limited, given what Lindsay Fifield had told them, because she's ripping them to high heavens and has been since that piece broke.
00:18:10.480and given what we now know this jennifer rassacott had to tell that she had this and look
00:18:18.280i've i've probably interviewed more me too victims than jody canter and megan tooey
00:18:24.460um i know these women very well not the ones in this story but i women who have these stories
00:18:29.340and i guarantee you the times knew rassacott's story i guarantee there's no way rassacott did
00:18:35.020not tell the two women who interviewed her the full story. She she probably just said, I'm not
00:18:40.700I'm not ready to go there yet. Like this. I only want you to print the following in The New York
00:18:45.480Times. That's my guess. She's saying publicly now I wasn't ready to tell the full story publicly
00:18:51.700when I spoke with The Times. And I really thought they had Lindsay and they had another girl,
00:18:55.740so they didn't really need me. But my point is simply, if you know in your head that this is
00:19:01.840what the full allegation is, your piece sounds different. You know, I mean, you don't go lightly
00:19:07.500on him. You've got somebody who says he raped me, who's just too scared to say it. So if that's the
00:19:14.340case, I'd love to hear from this Jennifer Roscott on whether she actually did tell the full story
00:19:18.380to the Times and just didn't give permission to print it because then they are truly villainous.
00:19:24.140Then those women wrote that catch and kill knowing that he had a credible allegation of1.00
00:19:30.520rape against him and still in a way to catch and kill it. Can I just read to you, Tommy,0.94
00:19:36.100you mentioned this, this Lindsey Fyfelder, Mark, you did. She's she had this devastating post on
00:19:43.040X yesterday, and I read it in part. She she's mad about what they've done to her and what they're
00:19:49.160doing now in general. I actually understand why Democrat leaders don't take our stories serious
00:19:54.260or didn't take our stories seriously when the Times reported them in June, but are now. It was
00:19:59.100by design. The line most shared from the piece was the claim that the Times, quote, could not
00:20:04.680corroborate my story despite talking to two of my friends. Just FYI for listening audience,
00:20:10.020Lindsay's story included the following three paragraphs. Mr. Plattner could be rough with her,0.85
00:20:16.500Ms. Feithfield said, particularly when they were drinking, leaving her shaken and sometimes afraid.
00:20:22.320In the interviews, Ms. Feithfield grappled with how to process her experiences. She was quick to
00:20:27.680you know, that he never hit me, never punched me. But she said he regularly grabbed her by the
00:20:32.240shoulders, sometimes hard enough to leave marks, and on one occasion, yanked her out of a cab by
00:20:37.740her wrist after an argument when she wanted to stay in the car. During one argument, she recalled,
00:20:44.240he twisted her arm behind her back, shoved her into a bedroom, held the door closed from the
00:20:50.240other side so she couldn't get out, telling her to remain there until she was calm. Eventually,
00:20:54.480Miss Fifield said she fell asleep and left the next morning. It hurt, she said. It didn't cause
00:20:59.980an injury. It didn't break my arm. So they were quick to make sure they printed Fifield's down
00:21:07.180playing of the incident. Right. Without reporting, for example, that's kidnapping. If it's true what
00:21:13.220he what he did to Fifield, it's kidnapping under the law, not to mention assault. That is it's a
00:21:18.680battery an unwanted touching is a battery in any event back to five fields x post she says um okay
00:21:24.920they were quick to print up point out that they could not corroborate my story despite talking
00:21:28.660to two of my friends i gave them contact info for five friends they called the two who i clarified
00:21:35.060would not know about the abuse but would be able to affirm our relationship timeline events etc
00:21:40.300they simply did not call the other three i also gave them the names of all my former roommates
00:21:46.180who remembered him stalking our row house,
00:21:49.460which was about five houses down from his
00:22:15.300after we walked home from dates to confront us, I gave them emails to my landlord urgently ending
00:22:20.840my lease and moving to an apartment across town and diary entries talking about it, all time
00:22:25.260marked. I told them that during premarital counseling, I had spoken to my ex-fiance about
00:22:30.440the abuse because I had to explain to him why I reacted with such terror anytime he lost his
00:22:35.980temper. They said, oh no, we don't need to bother him or my priest. Besides, I had written about it
00:22:42.300in my diary in detail, they reassured me. As the weeks dragged down, I stopped trying to give them
00:22:48.120evidence because the amount I had already given them seemed to overwhelm them, and I thought it
00:22:52.600meant they clearly had more than enough to verify my every claim. My friends might not have known
00:22:56.580the details of the abuse, but they affirmed that, yes, I had told them he was abusive long before he
00:23:00.440ran for Senate. Besides, they assured me my part in their reporting would be small. She wound up
00:23:05.800being the poster girl for the whole piece. I thought my details would only serve to affirm
00:23:09.500jenny and the other anonymous woman jenny and i having never met or spoken both shared with these
00:23:15.140reporters terrifyingly similar details of intimate partner violence coercive control and cycles of
00:23:20.440abuse slash love bombing the third unnamed woman in the story did as well but tell me again how
00:23:25.720they quote could not corroborate tom that is devastating well it's even more insidious than0.98
00:23:31.700that because the difference between the two is that lindsey fivefield was a republican was a
00:23:38.000conservative and this Jenny Rassica was a liberal. I mean, she basically said, look, I agree with
00:23:43.380Graham Plattner's policies, but I don't like him as a person. And so when the New York Times did
00:23:48.500that and made Lindsay the feature and focus of that story, that allowed all these Democrats and
00:23:55.000everybody else in the media to dismiss it as the Plattner campaign came out and said, look,
00:23:58.940this is just a disgruntled, you know, this is a hatchet job from the right wing, the MAGA crowd,
00:24:03.240all of that if they had reported the fact that there were also credible allegations from from
00:24:08.620another woman who who was from the other side of the aisle it would have been much much harder for
00:24:13.060them to to play that game and do it that way and that's why i think a lot of democrats now are
00:24:18.180looking at this and they've that's the difference between the two cases megan i i went it's such a
00:24:23.720good point sorry i went and reread the new york times story yesterday and the whole thing is so
00:24:27.920insidious not just as lindsey points out the things they didn't include but just based on
00:24:32.820what they included. This is the lead they wrote. This is literally the lead of a story about
00:24:37.580accusations, as you said, of serious accusations. On Tuesday evening, after a whirlwind day in
00:24:42.880Washington, Graham Plattner, the Democratic nominee for Senate in Maine, rushed home.
00:24:47.840Rumors were spreading from Portland to the Potomac. It's like a featurey lead about how
00:24:52.000Plattner is dealing with the accusations. I rewrote the lead just based on what they put
00:24:55.880in the piece, not the stuff that they buried. This would have been my lead. Democratic Senator
00:25:00.200grand planner is facing allegations that he physically assaulted and held captive a former
00:25:05.080girlfriend during a volatile relationship according to a new york times investigation
00:25:09.160that's the lead and the story and the story is written is filled with quotes from oh other
00:25:16.420girlfriends really liked him said he was a really nice guy can you imagine them inserting that in
00:25:20.480the story about donald trump this this is right this is this is such a scandal this piece and and
00:25:27.900And I can see why Lindsay feels so betrayed by cooperating with them.
00:25:32.720And I question why she did, because it was clear based on her account of how they treated it, they were not trying to write the real story.
00:25:41.160It's just phenomenal that they tried to get away with this.
00:25:44.280And they would have, potentially, had it not been for someone else deciding that she needed to come forward.
00:25:57.240That's what that's that's what the New York Times is saying to Lindsay. Right. It's like, too bad you took a risk. You never should have done that. But it is infuriating. And in a way, I mean, not in a way, in fact, Tom, it backfired because the Democrats could have had the truth about Graham Plattner.
00:26:14.400He denies it. It may or may not be true. OK, I must say that for the record. But they could have had this story in full about Graham Plattner weeks ago in much more time before the election to get another candidate in there to clearly and easily get him off the ballot before that July 13th deadline.
00:26:33.260but they decided to play the game of delusion and dilution and now here we are with less than a week
00:26:41.240to go before his name has to come off that ballot or stay on there for the general election and he's
00:26:47.060just considering the path forward not agreeing to step down yeah i mean as if the nazi tattoo
00:26:53.120wasn't enough like they could have gotten rid of this guy like a year ago months ago months ago
00:26:58.140right? And all of the other, the Reddit posts and all that stuff. I mean, it is astonishing
00:27:02.940for all of the people who live in Maine that the Democrats decided to get behind this guy
00:27:10.400and hitch their wagon and their credibility to this guy and then stick with him through all of
00:27:15.560these things. It has been remarkable to see. And now it is a problem. They are going to pay a price
00:27:23.420for it, not just in Maine, but for all the other races. And you had El Syed endorsed him in0.92
00:27:27.740Michigan. He's now distancing himself. The only person, the most prominent Democrat who did not
00:27:34.620endorse him, interestingly, was AOC. She did not get behind this guy. And I find that kind of
00:27:41.180interesting. But as you said, Bernie's been all in, has been up there campaigning for him even
00:27:46.680after that New York Times piece came out. He hasn't said anything yet. And so, look, I think
00:27:52.620he has to get out i don't know i guess there's a slim chance that he could he could try and ride
00:27:57.740this thing out but it looks like pulling trump well yeah exactly we all thought trump was going
00:28:03.160to drop out after the access hollywood tape and he came out double barreled it and said f off no
00:28:09.780locker room talk i'm in i saw mika brzezinski sort of grilling adam wren the politico reporter about
00:28:15.780now now there's no there's no police report right there's no you know like what documentation do
00:28:22.100you have like do you have the dms i know i mean theoretically i don't remember her asking any of
00:28:26.880that about the trump accusers right she definitely doesn't look like she's believing all women um but
00:28:32.540i guess theoretically he could say look you know this is a he said she said situation i say it
00:28:37.340doesn't happen she said it did and he could try and go that route but it looks like the momentum
00:28:41.900is is swinging pretty heavily against him it would be hard for him to i think to to ride it out at
00:28:46.240this point i think sanders may have called for him to get out oh did he just now just now i think
00:28:51.680I've seen reports on that, but let's see.
00:28:54.640Wait, while you check that, let's play a little of that Morning Joe exchange you just referenced, Tom Bevin.
00:29:01.780And there's not a legal case playing out here for due process to see itself through.
00:29:07.320So my question to you, given the very high standards political has before they write something like this and publish it,
00:29:16.400what aspects of this story brought it to the level of publishable?
00:29:21.680Yeah, you're correct here, Mika. There is no police report in this case. We spent a lot of
00:29:29.660time talking to Jenny, asking her for cooperating evidence. Were you able to see the interactions
00:29:36.640between Graham Plattner and this alleged victim? Did you actually physically see them? Did she
00:29:42.160produce them for you? She attempted to uncover them, but was unable to.
00:29:51.680Willie. She was Jenny in that New York Times piece. She appeared in the piece a few weeks
00:29:58.560ago. So what's your sense of why she decided she wanted to go into more detail with you at this
00:30:03.940point? Yeah, Willie. She was frustrated with how that article landed. Yeah, you're right, Mark.
00:30:12.900I'm seeing it, too. It broke six minutes ago. Senator Bernie Sanders on the main U.S. Senate
00:30:17.020race. Quote, I have spoken with Graham Plattner about the best path forward for Maine in light
00:30:21.280with these very serious allegations, I have recommended that he step aside. So does that,
00:30:29.280is that, is that it, Mark? When you have Sanders actually join the chorus? Yeah, it's pretty big
00:30:34.400deal. Fellow New Englander, leader of the movement, as pointed out, just one of his major backers. So
00:30:40.180look, a planner can look at the Donald Trump and Bill Clinton examples and say, if I fight and win,
00:30:47.520I go for broke and I'm a U.S. senator and I can survive. If I get out, I'm probably done as a as a not just a political figure in Maine, but as a member of polite society in Maine.
00:30:58.400But no financial support, no backing of Sanders. I thought he had close to no chance to go on, as Tom said.
00:31:06.100But now I think it's now I think it's probably literally no chance.
00:31:10.140Because we already saw that he was losing his funding, the National Democratic Senatorial Campaign, I think it was, or one of those formal fundraising groups already said we're out.
00:31:22.760All the other supporters have said we're out.
00:31:24.780As I said, even sort of the grassroots, more podcasty type influencers are saying we're out.
00:31:30.240And now you have Sanders saying we're out.
00:31:31.720I would say if you did a poll in Maine right now in the wake of the allegations, I think he'd be within five points of Collins.
00:31:39.300I did a focus group with Maine voters and they just don't care.
00:31:44.720Which is why that's on the other side of the ledger.
00:31:47.520If you're Graham Plattner and deciding what do you do here.
00:31:51.480But the only other guy they're talking about so far, at least, is this Troy Jackson, who's a former state senator in Maine.
00:31:59.280He lost the Democratic primary last month for Maine governor.
00:32:03.520And he's been floated as somebody who could succeed Plattner.
00:32:06.900Reading here from the Washington Examiner.
00:32:08.480He called for Plattner to drop out, saying, I'm the best person to replace him.
00:32:13.360However, OK, however, guys, here's what Progressive Victory just posted.
00:32:22.100We began asking our contacts on the ground in Maine about Troy Jackson earlier today after seeing many suggestions that he should replace Plattner.
00:32:29.680In our discussions, we have received troubling information not only about Jackson's behavior, but the behavior of many prominent Maine Democrats toward women more broadly,
00:32:36.920both as a result of the credibility of the sources and in the interest of not seeing our movement make the same mistake twice.
00:32:43.380We are choosing to share some of this now as Maine Senate president in a state Senate caucus meeting several years ago.
00:32:50.060Troy Jackson, in a heated disagreement, struck a female colleague with a bottle.
00:32:54.680He threw at her. There are many witnesses and it appears this is a widespread open secret within Maine politics and not an isolated incident.
00:33:03.280This information is still developing. We'll provide more as we get it. I should note for the record, that's not been responded to by this Troy Jackson. It appears to be an allegation that was not made in any sort of official or formal setting. So we will assume he denies it for now. But the vetting thing is not going well, Tom Bevan. It's not it didn't go well with Platt. And maybe maybe this is the reason why. Who could forget these idiots who found Graham Plattner to begin with?
00:33:30.680And then we're so proud of themselves. Did the media rounds only to have all normies recoil in a horror that these are the people picking our political candidates? Look at these two.1.00
00:33:41.900We paid a nice firm, a whole chunk of money and got some stuff back. Some of what you've seen on the news, we got back. Other stuff we didn't.
00:33:52.500Did the vetting process turn up the tattoo that became so controversial?
00:36:47.560And she is reporting today that that Mitch McConnell may be in a coma. He may be in a coma right now. And that as that news hit, his wife, Elaine Chao, final former labor secretary under Trump, flew to China to meet with the Chinese vice president.
00:37:10.100Okay, so he was found unconscious and required CPR at his Washington, D.C. home following an apparent cardiac arrest.
00:37:19.860Reading here from a Daily Beast report that's based on this woman's and I think another's reporting.
00:37:25.420And now this woman, her name is Desiree Townsend.
00:37:29.260Again, she's the one who initially reported accurately he was found unconscious at his home,
00:37:33.600is saying yes that she's now hearing uh that he is in some sort of vegetative regitative state
00:37:42.180uh and possibly no brain activity and that she's now waiting at the hospital for when his family
00:37:49.680quote eventually decides to move him off of life support it he is still a sitting u.s senator he
00:37:55.740stepped down as majority leader but he's still sitting u.s senator and there's speculation mark
00:38:00.540Calperin that the reason possibly, this is Steve Bannon's theory, that they don't want to announce
00:38:05.920this is that he believes the senator's office is trying to avoid triggering a special election
00:38:11.220that would allow outgoing Kentucky Republican Representative Thomas Massey to run as an
00:38:17.120independent. There's some timing issue if this comes out about McConnell before August 3rd about
00:38:24.160whether we can have a special election that might allow Massey to run or whether it would just go
00:38:28.940right to November in the general. And I don't know how that would affect Massey. But can we
00:38:33.660just start on the issue about McConnell and the reporting there? What do you know and what do
00:38:37.860you think? Well, they've been very unforthcoming about what exactly has happened. We know he's
00:38:42.540had health issues in the past. I talked to someone today who I think knows more than he was willing
00:38:47.980to tell me, but I wouldn't be surprised if Senator McConnell didn't come back to the Senate
00:38:52.200and and all this stuff about about who will replace him is is going to be very much on his
00:38:58.720mind in the mind of his team. They're extremely proprietary about that seat.
00:39:03.540I got to say, I'm I'm sad about this. I know there are a lot of Republicans who don't like
00:39:08.280Mitch McConnell because he's been a Trump antagonist in more recent years. But the Mitch
00:39:13.180McConnell I know is the one who got Supreme Court justice and appellate court justice after one
00:39:20.700after the other through at a time when the Democrats were completely obstruction oriented
00:39:29.080around judges and he accomplished some heroic feats around judges that he really should be
00:39:36.580applauded and remembered for. And look, you can't have your whole legacy be defined on whether you
00:39:42.180were on the right side of Trump. You know, it's just bullshit. Like he served honorably for1.00
00:39:47.920decades, became a leader in Republican politics. He was a gentleman, but fought very hard when it
00:39:54.120came to judicial nominees. Forgive me for speaking of him in the past tense. There's no report that
00:39:59.480he has died. It's just I understand he's obviously struggling right now. So but if this does become
00:40:05.400a battle for, you know, legacy and the seat, Tom Bevin, it's not like this is going to go
00:40:11.040blew this seat, but Thomas Massey actually potentially getting in to like, what a switcheroo
00:40:19.240that would be. I mean, I don't know if Trump would feel any better about Massey than he did
00:40:23.040about McConnell. No, that would be like one of those stories that, you know, Hollywood would
00:40:27.760reject because it seemed too far-fetched if that's how the whole thing worked out. But
00:40:32.840I agree with you. Mitch McConnell had a really interesting arc over the last few years of his
00:40:36.680career because when he was in the same he's a master tactician he he was able to get the supreme
00:40:42.440court justices through and you remember like there were all these memes of him going around and like0.63
00:40:47.800with narcos and all these things like he was he was like dark cocaine mitch and all that fear the
00:40:53.320turtle all those things and then he subsequently the sort of the the the attitude flipped and he
00:41:00.260became uh among the least well-liked if you look at his favorability ratings they went absolutely
00:41:05.580into the tank, in part driven by Republicans. And so he became one of the least liked members
00:41:11.780of the establishment by the MAGA base, even despite his successes and accomplishments.
00:41:17.720Look, I started my primetime show at Fox News. The very first guest ever was Ted Cruz. And my
00:41:26.920first question to him was, what's it like to be the most hated man in America? I have a long track
00:41:31.700record of liking and having a friendship with the least liked people in Washington. And I don't know
00:41:38.100if this is to my credit or to my shame, but I wear it as a badge of honor. It's good to get along
00:41:43.280with people if you can. Guys, thank you both so much. Good to see you both. Thanks, Megan.
00:41:47.320Yeah, you as well. All right, coming up next, we will have the latest on the Tyler Robinson
00:41:52.060hearing. We've been monitoring it all morning. I'm going to summarize for you the major points
00:41:56.760that came out yesterday. I can see clearly a couple of places that they're going on this.
00:42:00.980It's fascinating how much the prosecution is showing. I mean, truly, like my only conclusion is that they must be worried about the public PR battle and the jury pool because they don't have to be doing all this. And yet they are. And they just released some really like gripping video. It was moments before air and I was sitting there eating an apple, like staring at it and eating my apple, not able to speak.
00:42:28.260Doug came by. I'm like, I can't talk now. We're going to show it to you and talk about its meaning
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00:45:38.520But our friend Jack Posobiec, who has been doing great work with Turning Point in the wake of Charlie's death, as he did prior, is there at the trial and did a wonderful report online yesterday for the post-millennial about what happened in court.
00:45:55.880We, of course, checked it ourselves, as we always do.
00:45:58.960We trust Jack, and he was right about his reporting.
00:46:01.440But, you know, it's always good since more eyes are better.
00:55:49.960And in the chaos of a mass evacuation in a scary, dangerous event, it wouldn't be entirely shocking
00:55:56.300to find somebody's on the ground. Perhaps somebody even pulled their weapon to protect themselves.
00:56:02.200But if you're the defense lawyer, of course, you're going to make something of that. I mean,
00:56:05.720I'd be arguing that's the real shooter. It wasn't my client who had that. And it wasn't a rifle.
00:56:11.540It was a pistol. So that's where they're going. More back to Bagley. He described
00:56:17.400going over to the low C center, right? He claimed that he saw, he believed he heard the shot come
00:56:23.060from the east. That's where the low C center was. And that's the building on which the shooter,
00:56:27.280Tyler Robinson, the accused shooter was accused of being when he fired these alleged shots.
00:56:33.560He said he got there and he discovered a red and black screwdriver. He was shown a photograph from
00:56:40.720the top of the low C center from which he said you could see the grass courtyard area and where
00:56:44.900Charlie had been speaking. He described images shown in the courtroom of gravel. So they showed
00:56:50.560the judge these images of gravel on the roof that had been disrupted of the Losi Center. At the very
00:56:56.320top of the Losi Center, Bagley said he could observe what looks like a sniper pad, a person
00:57:01.340that has been laid in a prone position with the markings of elbows, knees, and feet in the gravel
00:57:05.720in the line of sight where Charlie's tent was. After his findings on the rooftop, Bagley said
00:57:11.180he asked dispatch to look at the camera system to see if anyone was on the roof at the time of the
00:57:16.000shooting. Now he's looking for corroborative evidence to what he's seeing in the gravel and
00:57:20.820this screwdriver, which he thinks may be relevant. And he says, dispatch says there had been a man
00:57:26.160on the roof and described that he ran to the edge, dropped down, crawled, got in a prone position
00:57:32.120toward the direction of the tent. He then went to the police department in a nearby building to look
00:57:36.620at the footage himself. At that moment, I realized I had more crimes, a bigger crime scene than I
00:57:41.520needed to contain that I needed to contain and preserve for that moment. So you can see this
00:57:46.300guy Bagley is important. Um, he went on to say that he went to the Northeast side of the building
00:57:50.940outside the building. He saw impressions of the shoe print inside the grass and also up above on
00:57:58.940the Northeast side of the building. I could see on the cement where someone had scuffed there,
00:58:03.900then dropped down to the shoe imprint. He's attempting to lay down the evidence of the path
00:58:10.160that the defendant he is arguing took um kathy nester cross-examined him in the way that we
00:58:18.500showed you there zeroing in on that holster you know what happened to it bagley said he did not
00:58:24.920know um and that no one had taken custody of it um then came david hull he is currently with the
00:58:35.840utah department of public safety he was working as a state bureau of investigation um major crimes
00:58:43.620division investigator at the time of the shooting and and they need hull to get in all the videos
00:58:49.940that they have of who they say is tyler robinson that day and that's he started that yesterday
00:58:55.780afternoon and that's he's still on the stand that's what he spent this morning doing so now
00:58:59.680we're getting up to speed to current moment. He testified that he was directed to go down to the
00:59:06.040university following the shooting. So Bagley's our guy to get us through the actual shooting.
00:59:10.960And this guy came on the scene right after for, to investigate among the data gathered from
00:59:15.960the general public, because he testified that they received multiple videos from the general public
00:59:20.960were through tips and social media. Okay. Were videos taken at the scene, multiple videos
00:59:27.080collected by the team were played in the courtroom, including clips of Charlie at the beginning of
00:59:30.540the event, a video showing the moment Charlie was shot, as well as Charlie in the moments after he
00:59:36.600was shot. There was a stunning moment in which they played the judge seeing Charlie get shot.
00:59:47.540And I think I mentioned this yesterday, but he, you can't hear the audio. You can hear a little
00:59:54.240bit. You can hear the shot go off, but you can see the judge, Judge Graff, react. He winces.
01:00:01.680He is just, you see the judge's humanity. He winces when you can hear the shot and you can
01:00:07.320see him, yeah, struggling to contain his emotions as the SOP plays out. In fact, no, it was on AM
01:00:14.640update. We didn't play it here. Can we play it now? Let's go ahead and play this video only on
01:00:20.480the monitors and if there's sound associated with it the sound to be played as well you may proceed
01:00:26.860the listening audience you can see the judge at the moment of the shot and if you listen to
01:00:44.620turn the sound up you can hear the shot and he he jumps the way you do like a jump scare in a movie
01:00:51.600and then you can see him push his chair back it's an instinctive protective mechanism right like
01:00:57.300push your chair back from the screen like we all want to when we see that video you don't want
01:01:01.600anything to do with it you don't want to be seeing it you don't want it to be true and then he comes
01:01:06.740back in toward the laptop it's all very subtle but it's happening and then you can see the judge
01:01:11.040kind of put his tongue to the side of his mouth. It's stress, that stress and anxiety
01:01:17.040manifesting in him. And he's a consummate professional. He's holding it completely
01:01:23.280together, but you can just see his humanity and a judge, a distinguished judge trying to control it
01:01:29.560and control his emotions because he is a human inside that robe. He has a job to do, but he's a
01:01:36.100human. He's a human being who clearly has empathy for poor Charlie and what happened to him, and
01:01:41.600that comforts me to know that. Back to David Hull, again, who was with the State Bureau of
01:01:48.480Investigation Major Crimes Division on the day of the shooting, who talked about the multiple videos,
01:01:54.160and he talked about the medical examiner who was at the scene who told him that he had pronounced
01:01:59.960Charlie dead. He testified that the Utah Medical Examiner's Office conducted an autopsy late in
01:02:05.880the evening of September 10th, and that the cause of death was listed in the autopsy report. He first
01:02:13.020said as a murder, the manner of death, a gunshot wound to the neck. The defense lawyer objected
01:02:20.060that the cause of death was actually listed as homicide, not murder, which is a legal distinction.
01:02:25.580Murder has to be proven in a court, and the comment was corrected. Hull said on the night
01:02:32.720of September 11th, the next night, Thursday, we received word from Washington County that an
01:02:36.900individual in the area had reached out to law enforcement and was wanting to turn themselves
01:02:41.100in for the incident at UVU. He said the name that they were given from Washington County was Tyler
01:02:46.920Robinson. After receiving the name, they put together a workup of his driver's lessons and
01:02:51.380other records to get some info on him, his car, and so on. After that information, they were able
01:02:56.200to use video to try to track where Tyler Robinson went and that they were able to establish that
01:03:02.120Tyler Robinson, quote, had been on campus approximately four times throughout the day, twice before the shooting, the time of the shooting, and after the shooting, later in the evening, into the early hours of the 11th.
01:03:15.820There was testimony about something, I think it was 12.38 a.m. that night.
01:03:21.560so he was there twice before at the time of the shooting and then into the wee hours of
01:03:27.500between the 10th and the 11th when asked if the man on the videos was in the courtroom0.98
01:03:33.780he was about to point out Tyler Robinson the defense objected which is such a bullshit
01:03:37.920objection but in any event ultimately he was allowed to identify that the man sitting in
01:03:42.460the courtroom as Tyler Robinson was the man who was on those videos and he also recounted footage
01:03:48.300that was gathered from nearby neighborhoods,
01:04:42.020But there's definitely video of the same guy first in a maroon shirt and gray shorts on the campus and later in an outfit change. And they've got video of what they say is Tyler Robinson's car because now they know it's registered to him and to his mother. There was testimony by Hull to that effect. He's getting cross examined now.
01:05:00.340But I want to show you first our compilation of the video we were watching just as we came to air.
01:05:07.060And I should also tell you, there was a fight late yesterday about whether the prosecution's compilation of all these videos, where they highlighted the man who we're supposed to focus on, they blurred the faces of some people, they made it more user-friendly, was objected to by the defense.
01:05:24.180she objects to everything she's getting fucking annoying um objected to and they didn't allow it
01:05:31.280in yesterday now today they they laid the foundation by showing all the raw videos0.87
01:05:35.700and then they asked the judge if they could then introduce the compilation video which is a shorter
01:05:40.240summary that that's more user-friendly she objected again and he sustained the objection so
01:05:45.040well at least we we the media are not going to be able to see the compilation video so he he can see
01:05:51.040it. But for some reason, they don't want to make it easier for the media to see it. We'll do our
01:05:57.100own. Sorry to disappoint you, Ms. Nestor, but we're pretty good in the TV world of taking raw
01:06:03.200video and zeroing in. I think you're probably going to be happier with what the prosecution
01:06:07.420did, frankly, because we're under no obligation as the prosecutor is to keep it completely
01:06:12.800objective and admissible. So whatever. We did what we could in the time we had before this
01:06:20.640just aired an hour and 20 minutes ago, but here's three minutes of what they showed the court on
01:06:25.420the videos of who they say is Tyler Robinson all over the UVU campus that day. What are we seeing
01:06:33.100here, Agent Hall? That's the vehicle that is believed to belong to Mr. Robinson arriving in
01:06:38.180the parking garage on campus. At what time in the morning? Well, what time of the day? It's
01:06:43.520approximately 8.30 in the morning on September 10th, 2025. And what leads you to believe that
01:06:49.460this particular vehicle belongs to Mr. Robinson?
01:06:53.660Information that was provided regards to driver's license and Department of Motor Vehicle records.
01:07:01.180The vehicle fits the description of a vehicle owned by Mr. Robinson.
01:07:04.600Is there anything unique about that vehicle that stands out to you?
01:07:07.840The shape of the vehicle is very distinct, but predominantly the wheels were very distinctive on this version of the vehicle.
01:17:40.540And then you had Agent Hull who testified that the person in the video showed a distinctive limp that you can see yourself.
01:17:52.000And then you want to try to tie it to him.
01:17:56.540And once that Robinson turned himself in, they could correlate that the timeline matched the digital footprint, including the cell phone data and the specific route that was identified via the Google map records.
01:18:12.820So the fact that he was there on campus four times that day, that does give the Koberger vibe.
01:18:18.840Someone who's scouting it out and then comes back over and over again.0.94
01:18:22.800And I just think that you just have to put all this stuff together and with all the totality of the evidence to show that this is the guy.
01:18:31.140The defense is doing the right thing by asking all these questions, although, yeah, she's getting a little annoying.
01:18:35.560But she is using this as a way to get the cards, as Phil said, from the prosecution.
01:18:42.320The prosecution is showing so much evidence. They're giving the defense a great amount of stuff that they wouldn't normally have.
01:18:48.480So this hearing can actually benefit the defense more than the prosecution because they're getting all this good info, even though they don't have twigs in person.
01:18:57.140Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, they're not going to they're not going to be able to talk to twigs, but they're going to hear what he what he has to say.
01:19:05.120I mean, to me, it's interesting because, Phil, all this stuff like. Doesn't the defense already have access to all of this, right?
01:19:12.280The prosecution doesn't get surprises.
01:19:14.620They have to turn everything over to the defense.
01:19:17.500And so it's different to hear them stitch it together and to hear their narrative.
01:19:21.480But the defense should not be surprised by any of these exhibits.
01:19:25.060No, they're not surprised by the evidence or the exhibits.
01:19:28.620But here's what they don't have until there's a hearing.
01:19:31.860They don't have sworn testimony from these witnesses under oath.
01:19:35.840And let me explain just a minute, if I may, why that could backfire on the prosecution.
01:19:41.020because these are witnesses that are going to come forward at trial, okay?
01:19:45.440There's going to be a transcript of this preliminary hearing
01:19:48.840and the testimony from these witnesses.
01:19:51.280If their story is any different, if their testimony varies one iota at trial,
01:19:57.420the defense is going to whip out the printed transcript of this particular testimony,
01:20:03.720and they're going to, even if it's just innocuous,
01:20:06.380if it's something just a minor misstatement or something like that,
01:20:10.000They're going to try to show the jury that they said one thing during the preliminary hearing and then something else during the trial, and they're going to try to impeach them potentially with any prior inconsistent statements.
01:20:22.160The other thing that it does is it gives the defense sort of the opportunity to see how witnesses testify.
01:21:12.960They could do it like we were talking about just in a matter of a few hours.
01:21:16.880The other thing they could have done is they could have sent this to a grand jury for a grand jury indictment so that that would be a judicial determination of probable cause.
01:21:25.060But by doing it in this fashion, not only are they frustrating us in the media because we can't see all the evidence that the judge is seeing,
01:21:33.220but they're giving the defense lots to work with when it comes to trial preparation.
01:21:57.100And then we did a deep dive, and here is what we found.
01:21:59.340In Utah's criminal justice system, grand jury indictments are rare.
01:22:04.320The Utah Supreme Court laid this out in a 2015 decision.
01:22:08.860The vast majority of felony cases are prosecuted by information, that is, by a prosecutor filing charges directly in district court.
01:22:17.160The historical role of the grand jury is now generally played by the district court itself, which holds preliminary hearings to review the state's evidence and reject unjustified prosecutions.
01:22:27.840A prosecutor wishing to prosecute by indictment must first persuade a special panel of five district judges.
01:22:35.380This is if you want to go jury, grand jury, that there is good cause to summon a grand jury.
01:22:40.760If the panel then summons the grand jury, the prosecutor may then ask the jurors to return an indictment and charge the defendant without a preliminary hearing.
01:22:48.740But they make it intentionally difficult.
01:22:50.740Well, for some reason, they really don't like impaneling grand juries in Utah, which is why they do the preliminary hearing.
01:22:57.060And once you've said, you know, you're going to ask the district court to give you an indictment, the defendant has the right to demand the preliminary hearing.
01:23:06.280And that's, you know, Bob's your uncle. You're off to the races, which is what happened here.
01:23:10.500I don't know why they don't like the grand jury, but they don't like it in Utah.
01:23:13.640That's why the prosecution is doing it this way.
01:23:15.840um i want to go back to these videos because this video that we're going to see here we showed part
01:23:23.780of it just a moment ago of him now in a different outfit this is the outfit that was released by the
01:23:29.200fbi as being worn by charlie's killer and this is the these are the pictures this is the video
01:23:37.280of the still shots that were used to identify who is this shooter the fbi put it out on september
01:23:45.30011th saying, this is our shooter. Does anybody know who this is? And it would turn out that
01:23:49.200Tyler Robinson's own mother and father saw it and both said, oh my God, that's our son.
01:23:56.280They both started texting him. The mother saying, where are you? He claimed he was sick, homesick,
01:24:02.120and that he had been the day before. The father saying, send me a picture of grandpa's gun right
01:24:08.320now because he knew the FBI had released the picture that law enforcement had it, had recovered
01:24:13.620the gun and the father recognized it. And they were also worried because they saw the pictures
01:24:18.320of the shooter and they said, geez, that looks a lot like Tyler. You know, it's like the same way
01:24:22.280we've been looking at porch guy in the Nancy Guthrie case saying, we don't know who the hell
01:24:26.100that is. But if you were married to that dude, you would know you, you know, when it's your family
01:24:31.780member, your spouse, your kid, your dad, you know, in a way that strangers don't. So now we're seeing
01:24:39.320the actual videotape from which these still images were were taken and and this is what
01:24:46.440was played in court just as we were coming to air and we'll hear the narrative about the videotape
01:24:51.900we showed you tyler robinson allegedly in the maroon shirt and the gray shorts parking coming
01:24:57.020in at 8 30 leaving at 9 25 then he came back at 10 and now there's the here's the testimony about
01:25:04.000the video of who they say is Tyler wearing the same outfit as the shooter here. The images that
01:25:09.740we have are from from my viewing and seeing Mr. Robinson on the video. It's the same person.
01:25:20.580He's noticeably wearing different clothing. He is wearing different clothing. And he also is
01:25:25.840walking with a gate or a limp in this video with the gate or what? Limp.
01:26:04.000Okay, so then they continue, and the testimony is that this is prior to the shooting. I mean, Dave, this is actually quite eerie. We're sort of doing a forensic analysis of it, but what they're arguing is that he was on his way to murder our friend who was out there asking questions, who had kissed his wife Erica goodbye early that morning while she was still in bed.
01:26:25.520He left so early, who couldn't sleep the night before, who had a feeling about something possibly happening, who had been under nonstop security threats, who was not well served, unfortunately, by good-hearted men who were supposed to protect him that day, who didn't anticipate the rooftops, notwithstanding Butler 14 months earlier.
01:26:50.700And Tyler Robinson, according to the police and the prosecution, had murder on his mind and was limping because that long gun given to him by his grandpa was running down his pant leg and would be one of the reasons he would get caught.
01:27:07.900because he, you know, if you believe the text messages between Tyler and his lover, Lance
01:27:12.700Twiggs, he hid it in the woods on his escape and couldn't get back to it. The cops got turned on
01:27:19.880to the woods too soon. And so he wasn't able to get back. And maybe that's why he went back there
01:27:25.140because if memory serves, we weren't aware that they had the gun until the next day, you know,
01:27:30.980So it could be at 12.38 a.m. on the wee hours of Thursday the 11th.
01:27:37.160That's what he was doing back there, trying to clean up after himself and couldn't manage to do it.
01:27:41.660Yeah, Megan, a quick question, if I can joke.
01:27:43.140Didn't, wasn't there some, as I recall, some of the statements that he made to Twigs were of the effect that, you know, I need to go back for my rifle.
01:27:54.000As I recall, that was what the conversation was, and we're going to hear more about that, of course, when we hear from Twigs.
01:27:59.660But that will, or at least through his statement.
01:28:02.500And then, of course, at trial, we'll hear from Twiggs and anybody else.
01:28:06.140But that, I think, explains why he went back.
01:28:08.960And, you know, it makes sense that if you're going to sort of preposition items that you may need for an assassination,
01:28:16.560you might make multiple trips to go get your spot set up, get your sniper's den set up,
01:28:21.520and then have to leave in a hurry and then go back to clean up your mess.
01:28:25.380So this all actually makes pretty good sense to me.
01:28:27.420yes he is lamenting in his text exchange with lance twigs how he wasn't able to get his rifle
01:28:34.700and he thought that was the only thing that could identify him um there was also testimony
01:28:39.760the well dave i wanted to get you to respond to my my other point about how eerie it is and how
01:28:44.420they're setting it up and how you know it's all so forensic and antiseptic and yet you know exactly
01:28:49.720what these actions allegedly produced this had to take some real planning you know he had different
01:28:55.020outfits he was limping when he had the gun on him and then later he's not he's wearing something
01:28:59.880different later on and then he had to try to find out how to get the gun back even message twigs at
01:29:05.620some point about how they'll be together later on uh in in life so this took planning and that
01:29:12.580means premeditation and that means the death penalty and it is quite telling that this judge
01:29:18.220had every opportunity to take the death penalty off the table because he is holding the prosecutors
01:29:24.540in contempt for speaking too much, for giving a statement to TMZ, which I think is overplayed.
01:29:30.420I don't think the judge should do that, but okay. But instead of sanctioning the prosecution by
01:29:35.280taking the death penalty off the table, he's refusing to do that. He's leaving it open to
01:29:39.860other sanctions. And that tells you that I think that this is going to be a capital case and that
01:29:45.360it's very likely that this defendant gets the ultimate punishment. Yes, yes. And if they prove
01:29:53.300this case beyond a reasonable doubt. That's exactly what he should get. Um, there should be
01:29:58.260absolutely no mercy for him. He had none for Charlie. Here is, um, some of what was in that
01:30:03.440text exchange that they say is between Lance Twiggs and Tyler Robinson. Um, as he starts to
01:30:11.500panic that, hold on a second, that, that the gun has been left there. Let's see. Says I'm stuck in
01:30:20.380Or, um, I am still okay. He starts off with September 10th, the day of the murder. Lance
01:30:27.640Twiggs received a text message from Tyler Robinson, which said, drop what you're doing.
01:30:31.140Look under my keyboard. He looked under the keyboard. He found a note that stated I had
01:30:34.340the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I'm going to take it. Police found a photograph of
01:30:38.820the note, I believe on Lance Twiggs phone. Then the following text exchange took place.
01:30:44.060After reading the note, Lance Twiggs responded, what you're joking, right? Robinson, I am still
01:30:49.060okay, my love, but I'm stuck in Orem for a little while longer yet. Shouldn't be long until I can
01:30:54.160come home, but I got to grab my rifle still. To be honest, I had hoped to keep this secret till
01:30:58.960I died of old age. I'm sorry to involve you. Roommate, you weren't the one who did it, right?
01:31:03.500Robinson, I am. I'm sorry. Roommate, I thought they caught the person. Robinson, no, they grabbed
01:31:08.500some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle
01:31:14.180from my drop point shortly after, but most of that side of town got locked down. It's quiet,
01:31:19.600almost enough to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering. Roommate, why? Robinson, why did I do
01:31:24.480it? Roommate, yeah. Robinson, I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out.
01:31:31.540If I am able to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to retrieve it
01:31:36.940again. Hopefully they have moved on. I haven't seen anything about them finding it. Again,
01:31:41.920And they didn't release the timestamp on this, but one might assume it's prior to 1238 a.m.
01:31:46.740on the 11th, which is when they said he did.
01:37:12.720Yeah. And not only so when you're surprised about how people can be so radicalized, Luigi Mangione from Ivy League schools, no priors.
01:37:20.300And look what happens to him. And then you see today all these ghouls who are hanging outside the courtroom praising Luigi Mangione and worshiping him, knowing that he did this.
01:37:30.620It's not like they're saying he didn't do it. He's innocent. No, they're saying, no, this is deserved.
01:37:34.200This is justified in today's political climate.
01:37:37.720That line, some hate can't be negotiated out.
01:37:43.160You know, it's like to believe that and think you have you have the right to end someone's life because they're too hateful to be here.
01:37:54.440And then to have watched the left defend this for the past 10 months, that Lucy Rodriguez pretending to shoot herself in the neck, she's still teaching children in Chicago.
01:38:07.300That behavior wasn't too extreme for them to fire her.
01:38:12.280There is just a collection of people out there that finds this kind of political violence acceptable.
01:38:23.660There's a collection, like you say, of those who show up at the Luigi hearings who think it's fine, of those who have celebrated Charlie's murder, who at heart think it's fine and actually applaud it, actually are in favor of it.
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01:41:01.800you're at it, check out Footy Prime Daily. Hey everyone, it's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some
01:41:07.640exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly channel
01:41:13.680And it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda and no apologies.
01:41:18.580Along with The Megyn Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Drushinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more.
01:41:27.920It's bold, no BS news, only on The Megyn Kelly Channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.
01:41:34.540we are back now with mark garagos co-host of in the well on our mk media podcast network
01:41:44.500mark iglarsh and jana spillbar who host positively legal you can find it all on our mk true crime
01:41:51.600youtube channel mk true crime just type that in and all these shows will come up jana we were
01:41:56.800going to get your take on where things stand as of right now katherine nester cannot have
01:42:02.480a realistic expectation that this case is not going to be bound over for trial. So what I think
01:42:09.740she's doing, which is pretty clear from this dog and pony show, she is simply setting up now
01:42:16.540testimony that will become useful when and if this case goes to trial to sort of have police
01:42:23.520officers and other witnesses tripping over their tongues based on maybe testifying differently at
01:42:28.980trial than they are now. Now, we don't want that to happen when you're prosecuting this case. But
01:42:34.040when you get down this granular and you try to get this nitty gritty with these witnesses who
01:42:39.620are going to have a long time before this case goes to trial, who will have to review their
01:42:43.520testimony in transcripts before the case goes to trial, that's just an opportunity to chip away
01:42:49.960in front of what is really going to matter here. And that's a jury. And that goes to the
01:42:54.720identification of Tyler Robinson, too. She's probably preserving those objections because
01:42:59.920that's an argument better made or that's evidence better laid before a jury. Do they have the right
01:43:06.800guy? That's that argument is going to fall flat in front of this judge, but it may not fall flat
01:43:11.860in front of 12 strangers down the road. You know, I was asking my earlier panel,
01:43:19.140How do they prove that this is Tyler Robinson in these videos, arriving at the campus at
01:43:25.340830, leaving at 925, coming back a little after 10 on foot, coming in an outfit change,
01:43:32.140now limping because prosecutors are going to argue he's got a long gun down the leg
01:43:37.160of his pants and then ultimately on that roof.
01:43:40.440And one of the things we haven't really seen anything about or heard anything about is
01:43:46.040cell phone evidence or the data from the car. You know, like we saw in Alec Murdoch. You know,
01:43:55.600we heard so much about that crime thanks to his car. Your car is spying on you these days. So
01:44:01.440what do you make of that? How how helpful do you anticipate those other items could be?
01:44:06.800Okay, so I equate the video that we're seeing now to I don't know, like bloodshot eyes in a DUI case
01:44:13.700That in and of itself wouldn't necessarily prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt.
01:44:20.220The other evidence, like the DNA and the confession, will definitely go a long way towards increasing the chances of him being convicted at trial, assuming there is one.
01:44:29.740The absence of cell phone data either is because they haven't yet put it in or they better as hell have an explanation from one of their experts as to why for some reason they don't have it in this case, because people have come to expect it.
01:44:44.880Well, especially because we know he was texting with Lance Twiggs, I mean, allegedly later that evening about allegedly having done it.
01:44:52.760So, I mean, if that's true, he should have had his cell phone or a laptop on him, both of which would be potentially traceable.
01:44:58.840and should tell us exactly where he was and when.
01:45:04.840It's very hard to hide your tracks these days.
01:45:09.780That's correct, which is in most people who have a couple of neurons firing,
01:45:14.740if you're committing a crime, you're not going to take your phone with you
01:45:19.500or you're going to have what prosecutors love to call a burner phone with you
01:45:24.420that doesn't have a smartphone feature of some kind that's traceable.
01:45:29.440But if he planned this, the prosecutor is going to argue if they don't have cell phone evidence
01:45:36.460or if the phone is sitting in one particular spot during the time that the shooting took place,
01:45:43.760they're going to say he didn't take it with him.
01:45:46.200And that'll be the explanation for it.
01:45:48.420If they have the cell phone evidence in the data and the triangulation and the pinging off the towers and also the GPS feature, then they may just use that coming later on as kind of the coup de grace.
01:46:03.300They may have a so-called summary witness who will lay it all out at the end.
01:46:08.180But I think that's coming later. I think you're right, because it's not listed on the items that they anticipate introducing at this preliminary hearing, which, again, they only need to convince this judge that they have probable cause to believe that Tyler Robinson committed this crime.
01:46:22.900They don't have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
01:46:24.900The standards of evidence are relaxed.
01:46:27.020It's just a much different proceeding than an actual jury trial would be, and the standard
01:47:44.120i think the time stamp on the video is 12 22 on the 10th on september 10th yes 2025
01:47:52.460we're clear this is the roof of the low sea building correct okay can you still see that
01:47:58.460individual uh yes you can laying prone that is playing prone i mean wait what'd you say garagos
01:48:07.180that individual both the questions and the answers but to describe the individual
01:48:12.780Mm hmm. But we've seen the close up video of the individual and he's wearing the same outfit as, you know, the one that they would later say is the shooter.
01:48:24.520And please help us identify him who they say is Tyler Robinson.
01:48:27.760I just think like there's going to be there's this is how it's done, is it not?
01:48:32.520I mean, you guys tell me, but like if you're a prosecutor, you've got to cobble together bit by bit.
01:48:38.600Tyler Robinson's car re-entered the UVU campus at whatever, right before 1215.
01:48:52.720Perhaps they have vehicle of him or video of him getting out of his vehicle.
01:48:56.340I'm not exactly sure whether they I haven't seen that.
01:48:58.580I've only seen him show up in his vehicle at 830, leave at 925 that they said he came back at 10 a.m.
01:49:03.900And then he came back again. He left and then came back. It could have been on foot.
01:49:08.540But in any event, they're trying to establish that it's him. He changed his outfit.
01:49:11.700Now he's got the long gun. It's down his pants.
01:49:13.780Now we've got video of somebody who looks an awful lot like that figure who was just limping on camera,
01:49:17.540who looks exactly like him on top of a roof, lying down, lying prone.
01:49:22.040And they're going to have the moment of the shooting as well.
01:49:24.820we've shown them just today we've shown on the audience of the video of the shooter then running
01:49:29.580off the roof jumping down i mean this is very unusual jonna to have the entire crime
01:49:34.660on tape like this is kind of a prosecution dream yeah it is because you can't swing a dead cat
01:49:42.360without being on video these days and this is a classic circumstantial case and the fact that
01:49:48.720it's a capital case doesn't change that i mean how often do we have uh criminal cases where we
01:49:54.200see the person shoot the victim. It does happen sometimes, but it doesn't happen always. There
01:49:59.060are plenty of other crimes where we have to piece it together because nobody is an eyewitness to the
01:50:04.040actual event that is the crime. And this is going to be one of them. And again, here we here we are
01:50:10.240in the in the preliminary stage, literally, of this case where, you know, I'm a little surprised
01:50:16.180that the prosecutor isn't holding back something. They should really be doing a bare bones and not
01:50:22.380allowing a five-day dog and pony show for the defense to set this up the way they're doing it.
01:50:27.240I'm surprised that the prosecution is kind of playing into the defense's hand here that way.
01:50:31.560There we go. Megan, that's the point. Two things that are very unusual. One,
01:50:36.740Jonna making some metaphor about swinging a cat. I don't know what she's doing in her spare time.
01:50:41.160Sorry. I don't get that. And number two, in reality, in real life, and Garagos, I'm sure,
01:50:49.460would say the same and jonna this would be a two-hour hearing hearsay's admissible let's just
01:50:55.480get through it did the crime probably occur is it probably him that's the lowest standard probable
01:51:01.620cause we're done now i was okay with it because i was like god there's a lot of conspiracy theorists
01:51:09.000out there they all think he's not guilty and then they start doing this trial and then the feedback
01:51:14.280we're getting on social media and at my law firm where they're calling calling my assistant saying
01:51:19.440I'm a nut for giving legal analysis, suggesting that there might be evidence that he's guilty.
01:51:24.420People are either not watching or they don't want to hear. So what's the point? If it's not
01:51:29.840helping the public, then get through it in two hours and prove it to a jury, which is the only0.58
01:51:34.160thing that damn matters. But interesting, you know, to the end, to the end on Kohlberger,
01:51:39.620we had Kohlberger truthers. You know, the guy pleaded guilty to quadruple homicide.
01:51:46.080and still we had truthers who were like no it wasn't him i was like yeah i in my experience
01:51:55.360you just a true conspiracy theorist and not everybody who doubts tyler robinson's guilt
01:52:01.140is a conspiracy theorist some some are but a true conspiracy theorist can never be convinced
01:52:06.660out of the conspiracy it does not matter what you show to them so you raise an interesting point
01:52:12.500that if if this really is for conspiracy theorists in the truest sense of that term,
01:52:18.340they're wasting their time. But if it's for jury pool members who may just be confused or have
01:52:25.200doubts and the prosecution's convinced if they see some of this tape, they won't have them and
01:52:30.340could potentially serve once the jury is chosen. Maybe it's different. You know, I mean, that's a
01:52:35.480miscarriage of justice. That shouldn't happen. The purpose should not be to poison the potential
01:52:40.480jury pool. If it's to, you know, or I think they'd argue on poison. It shouldn't. It should
01:52:47.340have nothing to do with that. It shouldn't. It shouldn't be to influence the jury pool in any
01:52:53.680respect. That's not due process. Period. Go ahead, Garagos. Well, the the interesting thing is
01:53:00.680I've I've evolved, if you will, on cameras in the courtroom. I now fervently believe that you should
01:53:09.480have cameras in the courtroom for trials. I think that it's vital, especially what I call
01:53:15.260supersized trials like this. You should have cameras in the courtroom. I think, and I agree
01:53:21.680with Jonna and Mark, and actually Phil was also talking about it along with Dave, the prosecution
01:53:28.440could put this case on in minutes. I wouldn't even say hours. I mean, I used to have a friend
01:53:35.700who was a DA who used to see how few questions he could ask in order to get somebody held to
01:53:42.860answer. And I think his winning one was, what happened next? What happened next?
01:53:47.960Please hold the answer. But I think the prosecution's calculation is that they want
01:53:55.740to make this appear to be a slam dunk case for whatever reason. I won't go into their motives,
01:54:01.920because all this does is give the defense the ability to engage in what the defense should be
01:54:09.240doing, which is exactly what they are doing during this preliminary hearing. What I do,
01:54:14.520I'm sure what Mark and Jonna do. You presented with a series of witnesses, you're going to
01:54:20.160question, you're going to test, you're going to push. However, to also their point, this is not
01:54:27.540the trial. So it is improper to try to influence a jury pool. But from a defense standpoint,
01:54:35.080that jury pool is overwhelmingly already has a prejudgment rate of guilt. The one kind of niche,
01:54:43.780if you will, is kind of the, you call them the truthers, I would just call them the tinfoil0.95
01:54:50.940hat wearers who generally until they hear the words out of somebody's mouth do not believe it0.98
01:54:58.700no matter what you present and even then right ai generated not real yeah or or just like forced
01:55:06.600into it under threat of what i don't know how people say kohlberger didn't you know it's like i
01:55:11.200i'm done i don't feel the need to reason with those people you know it's like okay good take
01:55:16.640care like believe whatever the hell you want i don't care he's in jail that's the important thing
01:55:20.640It's actually, I think, to their point, I think the I think this backfires on the prosecution in a lot of ways.
01:55:27.400Ultimately, it may not make any difference, but it certainly is not moving the ball forward for them in terms of those who believe he's guilty aren't going to come away from this having their minds changed.
01:55:40.460those who i know conspiracy well that's that's what makes me sad because you know like i see
01:55:47.040some of my friends like fervently retweeting some of these segments and these videos being like
01:55:52.920you see and they're not showing it to their audience on x or elsewhere to show them what's
01:55:58.740happening at the hearing to say this is what the prosecution has this is how they're stitching
01:56:02.280together the case they're tweeting it to say this disproves this piece of whatever conspiracy theory
01:56:09.980This disproves this. It's like you are wasting your time and your breath. Like one thing I know
01:56:17.980from 20 plus years in news is there is no disproving a conspiracy theory in the mind of a
01:56:25.880true conspiracy theorist. It's not possible. They will just continue moving the goalposts.
01:56:32.620And then when you ask them to sit across from you and explain how it all went down,
01:56:38.420like how was this person controlled by whom how would they argue this how how did they get control
01:56:45.280what is the evidence of it how like they can't do it they will just get out of bounds because
01:56:50.880it's just the way the mind works and part of the issue is we've had so many conspiracy theories
01:56:58.020come true over the past few years you know like we we did find out that covid was from a lab
01:57:06.820And it wasn't from a pangolin in some wet market. We were lied to about that. We did find out that
01:57:12.860the vaccine caused myocarditis and other issues, especially in young teenage boys, which we were0.98
01:57:18.540fucking lied to about it. We did find out that the six foot rule of not getting close to one0.89
01:57:22.820another was totally made up and had no basis in science trademarked. We did find out that
01:57:28.660Jay Bhattacharya was not some conspiracy theorist. He was a legitimate doctor who was raising real
01:57:34.660concerns about whether we should just do focused protection on the elderly and not quarantine
01:57:39.560masses, the masses across America and the globe. Like COVID in particular was it was an experience
01:57:45.900in which conspiracy theories wound up all being true. And the real nutcases were the ones in
01:57:55.140government power lying to us. There's a real hangover from that. Right. And like people
01:58:01.440disbelieving official narratives. It's so true. As one who was litigating during that entire0.62
01:58:10.940COVID period, I mean, I remember the restaurants, outdoor restaurants, and having to fight that
01:58:17.120fight and sue the government. And to quote Gorsuch, this idea that this case out of Boston,
01:58:23.340Jacobson, U.S. Supreme Court case became a towering presence. The problem that COVID presented
01:58:29.720is that people who are already had mental health issues,
01:58:36.540And people who didn't have mental health issues,
01:58:40.220who were trying to rationally examine stuff,
01:58:44.640were basically kind of forced in or lumped in with the others.
01:58:48.500And it is unfortunate, COVID, to your point,
01:58:52.300I mean, that was one of the best 90 seconds summaries
01:58:55.440I've heard since listening to Carola talk about it,
01:58:58.940The COVID did an enormous amount of damage to the U.S., and specifically in California, where I am.
01:59:10.000California just became kind of unmoored from reality and rationality.
01:59:16.060I mean, when you think back to bulldozing the beaches or arresting a guy on a paddleboard,
01:59:22.460I mean, it sounds insane now, but at the time it was, you know, you were pilloried if you disagreed with it.
01:59:30.520And that lays the foundation for now kind of this taking a circumstantial evidence case, which, by the way, the law says it.
01:59:39.460There are two reasonable interpretations, the one that points towards innocence.
01:59:43.220But we've lost kind of this ability collectively to believe what is reasonable or rational at a
01:59:52.080certain level. There's a couple of other things just just to add, you know, the Epstein
01:59:57.340controversy where people believe that there really was some elite cabal covering up for
02:00:03.000other elites so that they wouldn't go down. And then there was a revolt when the administration
02:00:07.640didn't want to release any more Epstein documents, but it was done. And look what happened.
02:00:11.900A bunch of people went down. You know, that U.K. official, I don't remember his name, but he fell. The U.K.s had actually a lot more accountability on Epstein than we have over here in America. But look what happened with Bill Gates. He got humiliated. Some others got exposed. Obama's former White House counsel got exposed.
02:00:33.460Like bit by bit, we did learn. No, there is a cabal of people who are very connected to him and seem like dirtbags who did deserve to be exposed.
02:00:43.620And with more and more pushing, they were. But we were all told that's a conspiracy theory, too, about Jeffrey Epstein's like, OK, this is like it's just annoying.
02:00:54.040And look, the thing on Israel, like that's underlying this whole thing.
02:00:58.560And I feel like I'm in a unique position to speak to this because it's like Charlie and
02:01:04.620I were completely aligned on Israel all along and up to the day he was killed, where we0.59
02:01:09.480were very, very pro-Israel, but we were starting to have doubts because of their behavior in0.67
02:01:13.340Gaza and how extended and egregious it was and just how the overkill, again, to use that
02:01:19.240And we hadn't abandoned Israel as supporters, but we were becoming more critical.
02:01:23.480And we both felt a need to make room in the GOP for Israel skeptics, which is what young Republicans feel that they're they're very skeptical, not of Israel and the Israeli people, but of this government and its behavior.
02:01:36.920And Charlie was having doubts about Israel and was under pressure not to, not to abandon
02:03:51.460to get the attention off of Tyler Robinson. And we haven't heard anything from that defense team,
02:03:58.300which does seem talented about it not being Tyler. So anyway, thoughts on it, Megan, can I put I want
02:04:05.380to put my tinfoil hat on for a minute and I never have a tinfoil hat. But just for argument's sake,
02:04:09.860in terms of the evidence in this case and what will come forth, the one the chum, for lack of
02:04:16.420a better word that i think conspiracy theorists can sink their teeth into that we know so far
02:04:21.520are the weird text messages why because they're too detailed for somebody who wants to commit a
02:04:29.900heinous crime and get away with it to be texting your your furry lover all of the details of the
02:04:35.980grandfather's gun and this and here's where i put it and look under your keyboard and do all that
02:04:39.600stuff when you know damn well as a 23 year old you know damn well that this information is gettable
02:04:45.760Why would you almost give yourself up digitally if somebody weren't putting you up to?
02:04:53.940Now, I don't believe that is the case.
02:04:55.640But if I were a conspiracy theorist, I'm going to be hanging my hat on those text messages because there's just too much there there.
02:05:04.080Also, so I have a dear friend who I love.
02:05:07.120She's she's a doll and she tends to think more conspiratorially on some of these issues.
02:05:13.820And she she keeps me abreast of what she's hearing and she thinks on this.
02:05:18.520And I actually really appreciate it because it's a good window into, you know, how people who are very skeptical of the theory that Tyler Robinson did this are thinking.
02:05:27.140And she just texted me that these messages are not believable and no one believes this is why he was taken out.
02:05:34.820Um, it literally goes on from there, but those messages are a problem for people, um, who want
02:05:42.780to convince us it was Tyler Robinson because they do, they sound fake. They just sound, they do,
02:05:47.720they sound fake. They sound fake. And to John's point, guys, they do have, it's like a prosecution's
02:05:54.680dream. It's my rifle. This is where I hit it. Remember when I engraved the bullets with the
02:06:01.620following memes like it's it's exactly what you'd write if you wanted to ensure his conviction
02:06:06.720well and then layer over that somebody else was there who gets carried off and arrested
02:06:14.080who later confesses layer over that there are pre-existing chats that are memorialized in some
02:06:23.580fashion which look to be a conspiratorial and you i i would not be so sure that in jury selection
02:06:36.860you that a stealth juror this is usually the defense's worst nightmare but in this case it
02:06:43.700could be just like in luigi the prosecution's worst nightmare they get a juror on yes not going
02:06:49.840to buy anything that the prosecution is selling because it just looks too neat too convenient
02:06:55.960and doesn't kind of answer all of the questions i have a theory megan let me tell you something
02:07:01.980i have a theory they that i know i know a few people who are you know like my this one friend
02:07:07.500who's very well off she's very successful um who i met years ago she was q anon she was part of q
02:07:17.180like she believed all the theories about like the pizza place and the democrat like all of it
02:07:22.900and um like pretty much every conspiracy theory and i never knew that eyeglarsh until she had a
02:07:28.580dinner party at her house and we all went and she kind of started confiding in me and i remember
02:07:32.120being shocked i'm like she she believes every single one of them i know a few people who are
02:07:37.500like this and they are brilliant they are very successful this is not like there is a very good
02:07:45.040chance a few of these will wind up wind up in the jury pool and being considered for the actual jury
02:07:51.040here. This is something the prosecution absolutely has to be paying attention to. Sure. You listen,
02:07:58.840we think we know people. We only know what they show us. And even then, you really never get down
02:08:05.780to it. My theory in this case is that these defense lawyers are doing their job ensuring due process
02:08:12.940by challenging every piece of evidence, by making all the right objections.
02:08:18.520But, Megan, you're thinking, and many people are thinking, well, so what does this lead to?
02:08:22.700What type of successful defense is that somehow leading to?
02:08:26.740And I don't think that they even think that it's going to lead to that.
02:08:30.540They're defining winning by doing everything they can to challenge the evidence.
02:08:34.700And then ultimately, not not possibly, but when this judge says I'm finding probable cause, which is 100 percent certainty, they will then proceed to buy their, you know, their their their protective knee coverings, get down on their knees and beg the prosecution to consider waiving the death penalty.
02:08:55.160And that, to me, would be a victory for the defense.
02:08:58.220Prosecution has no reason, though, to do that.
02:11:46.100He was extremely close with Charlie. There's zero chance. Imagine. Imagine a scenario worse than a five day preliminary hearing. Imagine five, 10 years down the road after he's convicted, after he's given the death penalty. The appellate court reverses based upon something that was done in jury selection, whatever it is. And then we come back and we do it all over again. That's possible.
02:12:22.740I'm just going to say, remember the reason that the feds did not get involved in they
02:12:27.380publicly said it's not like I'm talking directly to somebody who's confiding in me.
02:12:32.900They said Utah's got a death penalty, unlike New York, where similar to California, the
02:12:38.740death penalty basically does not exist. We came in in New York because of that. We didn't come in
02:12:45.600to Utah because they mean it when they say they've got a death penalty. That's the backstop. That's
02:12:51.500the only reason they didn't take federal jurisdiction over this. And Megan, a win for0.62
02:12:58.040the defense here is simply not getting a unanimous death verdict. That is a win for the defense.
02:13:04.080I don't think they know they know they don't have a prayer of an acquittal. I don't see that happening any at any point. But if they have one juror who can't sentence to death, that is a win. And that might be a long plea, as we like to call it. And maybe that's the angle of this defense team at this point.
02:13:22.480If I if I were the defense lawyer, I'd be going for jury nullification. I'd be going for hung jury. All I need is one who thinks that Tyler Robinson was manipulated, whether it was by the CIA and an MK Ultra, which I've seen that by Israel, who, you know, somehow swooped in and got and controlled his mind or he wasn't actually the shooter because there was the exploding microphone, whatever.
02:13:47.700There's a lot of theories out there that I'm the defense lawyer.