The Megyn Kelly Show - Prince Harry Goes Woke at the UN, and Cybercrime Lessons, with Dan Wootton and Brett Johnson

00:00:00.460 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.480 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:14.940 On the program today, a man once featured on the FBI's Most Wanted list.

00:00:20.200 His name is Brett Johnson, and he has one of the most fascinating life stories ever told,

00:00:24.560 which led him to a life of crime as a central figure in the cybercrime world for more than 20 years.

00:00:32.400 He is the reason why after you file your tax returns, it takes a little while for them to upload and for you to get your refund.

00:00:39.860 It's because of Brett and the work he did, work, quote unquote, as a young man creating new cybercrimes no one had ever heard of before.

00:00:47.720 But eventually, Brett found redemption and a life on the other side of criminality.

00:00:55.440 And he's here to tell us that story.

00:00:57.160 Cannot wait to talk to you about it all.

00:00:58.880 It's sort of like that movie Catch Me If You Can, you know, with Leonardo DiCaprio and that that whole story.

00:01:03.620 This is going to remind you of that.

00:01:05.180 But before we get to Brett, got some thought today on Prince Harry taking to the world stage to lecture us all on what terrible people we are.

00:01:15.680 He's at it again, and it's absolutely absurd and worthy of a moment's pause.

00:01:22.140 He's got strong thoughts on the U.S. Constitution.

00:01:25.340 Didn't we fight a war to get away from British royals trying to tell us how to live?

00:01:29.580 Shut up. Shut up and enjoy your 17 million dollar mansion.

00:01:33.560 But that's enough about my thoughts.

00:01:35.060 Let's bring on Dan Wooten.

00:01:37.400 He's host of GB News' Dan Wooten Tonight, which is a great program and a great network airing in the U.K.

00:01:43.380 And he's also a Daily Mail columnist, well worth the read and the watch.

00:01:52.320 Dan, welcome back to the show.

00:01:54.180 It is so good to be here, Megan.

00:01:55.800 My God, like the nerve.

00:01:57.560 So just set it up for us.

00:01:59.140 We have a soundbite of what he said at the U.N., which I'll play in a second.

00:02:02.060 But, you know, why?

00:02:04.340 Why is anybody at the U.N. calling Prince Harry to show up and lecture us on anything other than what it's like to live in a palace?

00:02:11.480 Well, even the U.N. didn't seem to be that into it, Megan, because he was actually speaking in front of a largely empty room, which sums it up.

00:02:20.560 But the bloke is meant to be there celebrating the legacy of Nelson Mandela.

00:02:27.340 And we all know what he went through.

00:02:30.780 And instead, he used it to advance his woke political agenda, to attack the U.S. Constitution, and quite shockingly, to compare the Roe v. Wade decision with the war in Ukraine.

00:02:45.240 That may have been the most insane part of all.

00:02:48.480 Here's a little bit for the people who didn't get the joy of hearing it the first time.

00:02:51.780 Soundbite won.

00:02:54.200 How many of us feel battered, helpless, in the face of a seemingly endless stream of disasters and devastation?

00:03:03.060 I understand.

00:03:04.820 This has been a painful year in a painful decade.

00:03:08.020 We're living through a pandemic that continues to ravage communities in every corner of the globe.

00:03:15.880 Climate change wreaking havoc on our planet, with the most vulnerable suffering most of all.

00:03:22.980 The few weaponizing lies and disinformation at the expense of the many.

00:03:27.600 And from the horrific war in Ukraine to the rolling back of constitutional rights here in the United States, we are witnessing a global assault on democracy and freedom.

00:03:38.820 OK. Yes. So the Ukraine war in which 5000 civilians have been killed is the same thing as the Supreme Court reversing Roe v. Wade, which, if anything, is going to lead to the saving of lives of unborn babies.

00:03:55.200 But in his mind is the same as murdering 5000 civilians in Ukraine.

00:03:59.160 I mean, it's insane.

00:04:03.840 It's utterly insane.

00:04:06.200 What's particularly shocking to me is the way that this not only denigrates the memory of Nelson Mandela, but also the royal family, Meghan, too.

00:04:16.820 And I know you're less worried about that where you are in the US.

00:04:21.380 But in the UK, it's sacrosanct that the royal family stays out of politics.

00:04:27.080 It's sacrosanct that they stay out of international politics.

00:04:30.080 The Queen will be horrified that Prince Harry is expressing a view about Roe v.

00:04:37.200 Wade publicly and the fact that he's doing it at the United Nations.

00:04:42.540 This beggars belief.

00:04:43.960 And what it shows is that this is a man who no longer cares about the royal family.

00:04:49.360 He no longer cares about the Queen's legacy because he will advance a political cause come May.

00:04:58.400 And, you know, the end goal, Meghan, according to many of my royal sources, and while it seems like a wild idea, it's to get Markle in the White House one day as a Democratic president.

00:05:10.180 And we haven't lost our minds to that extent yet.

00:05:14.400 I mean, she is the one who's been out there already touting this position.

00:05:17.880 She was she gave an interview, I think, in Vogue with Gloria Steinem saying her husband is a feminist.

00:05:24.280 Harry's a feminist.

00:05:25.100 And then his reaction to the overturning of Roe v. Wade was guttural, as if he knows anything about the U.S. Constitution or our jurisprudence on Roe v. Wade.

00:05:35.600 I mean, he isn't he didn't need to call the First Amendment.

00:05:38.440 He was like dumbfounded by it.

00:05:39.860 He didn't know.

00:05:40.540 Why would he feel the need to weigh in?

00:05:43.080 Not just.

00:05:43.740 OK, maybe press abusing a member of the royal family.

00:05:49.120 That's something he's got deep and awful personal experience with.

00:05:52.560 I can understand how he'd have a strong opinion on that.

00:05:54.580 But why the hell would Prince Harry feel the need to weigh in on the U.S. Constitution, whether it's our First Amendment or the reversal of Roe v. Wade?

00:06:04.560 The thing that's so ironic about all of it, Megan, is that he hates the U.K., remember?

00:06:09.100 He hates the U.K. so much.

00:06:11.500 And the dastardly British tabloids drove him out of this country.

00:06:15.680 Remember that?

00:06:16.140 Actually, he prefers the U.K. when it comes down to it, because our justice system provides no guaranteed constitutional protection of freedom of the press.

00:06:29.540 I can be chucked in jail if I publish something that he and the judge are not happy with.

00:06:37.360 And he is using the legal process to gag the press in the U.K.

00:06:41.400 So it's hilarious to me that Harry went to America thinking that this was going to be the place where he would get complete freedom from any scrutiny.

00:06:51.100 And in fact, he's had the shocking realization, my God, the U.S. Constitution actually protects the press, protects the media, protects journalism.

00:07:00.760 And he doesn't like it. And he doesn't like it for incredibly selfish reasons, man, because he doesn't want to be photographed.

00:07:07.360 He doesn't want to have to deal with any scrutiny of his affairs.

00:07:10.980 He wants to control the media and control the narrative.

00:07:14.680 He doesn't want to be photographed, but his wife does.

00:07:17.200 We just put up the picture of nobody in the seats listening to him.

00:07:20.600 But his wife, you know, at the Jubilee, you could see what she was very clear about pressing down the button that brings down her tinted window.

00:07:27.400 So everyone could get their shot of her sitting there next to Prince Harry and the nerve, Dan, of this couple to lecture us about climate change when they've never seen a private jet.

00:07:39.780 They don't want to board.

00:07:41.000 The estimates are they've been on some two dozen of them over the past couple of years, including speaking of photographs,

00:07:49.260 when she created a photo op out of the death of the children in Uvalde, Texas, and hopped on a private jet to get out there for her photo op so she could lay her white roses at the memorial.

00:08:04.260 The only public figure to do that because it's not because other public figures didn't care about Uvalde.

00:08:10.320 It's because they knew that it was a time for sensitivity and to not make themselves the center of the story.

00:08:16.360 And how did she get there?

00:08:17.400 Private jet, as he's over there telling the rest of us to turn down our thermostat and not eat red meat.

00:08:25.000 You couldn't make it up, could you?

00:08:27.240 They are the ultimate example of do as I say, not as I do.

00:08:31.880 They have a network of incredibly rich individuals, including the likes of Elton John, who loan them private jets whenever they want to.

00:08:39.600 They don't even pay for them themselves, Megan.

00:08:41.660 And they don't give a damn about the environment when it comes to changing their own lives.

00:08:47.560 They just want us mugs to have to go back and not take flights and live in some sort of Victorian world.

00:08:54.100 To me, they are the absolute ultimate example of the elite.

00:08:58.120 They are being exposed.

00:08:59.720 And I think what's so good about this United Nations address now is the sense that I'm picking up, the mood that I'm picking up from the U.S.

00:09:07.180 is that people are getting, even in America, even in their adopted home, people are getting fed up with their woke, politically correct, virtue-signaling nonsense.

00:09:19.220 And they actually don't even like the idea of embracing Prince Harry as an adopted American now.

00:09:25.540 Yeah, that's right.

00:09:26.360 And did you think it was extraordinary earlier this week, Dan, when Serena Williams came out and corrected the record after Meghan Markle tried to say Serena was her friend and she'd invited Serena to the royal wedding?

00:09:41.200 And Meghan Markle and Serena Williams came out and said, that's not true.

00:09:46.140 At best, we're acquaintances.

00:09:48.020 And then reportedly, George Clooney said he didn't know the royal couple before they invited him to the wedding.

00:09:52.860 There are a couple of celebrity wannabes.

00:09:55.180 They're glommers who overstate their closeness to genuine sports and acting celebrities because what they really want is the spotlight.

00:10:04.080 That's why she lowered the window.

00:10:05.740 It's why she flew to Uvalde.

00:10:07.300 It's why he feels competent to comment on our constitution or climate change in front of the U.N. to begin with.

00:10:14.420 Well, let's be very clear on Meghan.

00:10:17.080 Meghan.

00:10:18.000 Ms. Markle doesn't have friends.

00:10:20.760 She doesn't do friends.

00:10:22.680 She does business contacts.

00:10:25.480 That's why she had no one at her wedding who she knew from before she started.

00:10:32.200 Every single one of her childhood friends, her school friends had all been ditched.

00:10:39.740 She ghosts folk when she no longer needs to get something from them.

00:10:44.160 So, yes, absolutely.

00:10:45.700 The likes of Serena Williams were not friends.

00:10:47.480 Oprah was never friends.

00:10:48.980 Gayle King, they were never friends.

00:10:50.700 These are contacts, and they are contacts to further the career of Meghan because that is the way that she lives her life.

00:10:55.920 She's a very ambitious Californian starlet.

00:11:00.220 Prince Harry, on the other hand, he did have close friends, Meghan.

00:11:03.060 And I think the thing that people close to Harry find particularly tragic about what's going on is that he has had his soul sucked out of him.

00:11:11.440 He talks in this sort of Californian mumbo-jumbo.

00:11:16.480 I am told on good authority that Meghan scripts all of his public comments.

00:11:22.400 So she is controlling him.

00:11:24.580 And he no longer has a relationship with his family.

00:11:28.280 He no longer has a relationship with his father.

00:11:30.380 He no longer has a relationship with his brother.

00:11:32.120 He no longer has a relationship with Kate, you know, Kate Middleton, who once he was incredibly close with.

00:11:39.600 And so what he has is Meghan's mates.

00:11:42.740 And they're not true friends.

00:11:44.440 They all want something out of them.

00:11:46.440 And I actually think it's really sad.

00:11:50.520 However, I'm not going to give Harry a free pass because he has signed up to this.

00:11:55.480 And some of that is evident in another part of his speech where you can hear him do exactly what you just said.

00:12:01.360 He sort of slips into this language of the super woke.

00:12:05.900 I thought I'm going to play in a second, but I thought it was interesting because there's a report.

00:12:08.660 There's a book coming out called Revenge by Tom Bauer.

00:12:11.860 I'm sure you know this is coming.

00:12:12.960 And this guy claims to have the inside scoop on the whole Megxit and so on.

00:12:18.480 But one of the things that he is going to be reporting, the book is set to be released in a day or two, July 21st, is how.

00:12:27.640 Wait, I'm just want to make sure that it's his.

00:12:30.760 I think this is from his.

00:12:32.120 In any event, the New York Post was reporting this, and I think it was based on his book, that that Harry's friends from Eaton College when they first met Meghan.

00:12:40.160 Yeah, it is.

00:12:41.100 We're horrified.

00:12:42.040 They thought he was effing nuts for dating her because when she showed up to their big rendezvous, they were engaging in banter and jokes and drinking.

00:12:52.560 And she was reportedly running around challenging every guest whose conversation contravened her values without hesitation.

00:12:58.380 Nobody was exempt from being chastised for the slightest inappropriate remark.

00:13:05.360 So they said she lacked any sense of humor.

00:13:07.940 She was a damper on the on the party.

00:13:10.000 And the friends, when it was over, were saying, oh, my God, what is he doing?

00:13:12.620 So flash forward, that's 2016, six years, 2022, and listen to Harry before the UN.

00:13:20.660 But the right thing to do is not up for debate.

00:13:26.820 And neither is the science.

00:13:29.580 The only question is whether we will be brave enough and wise enough to do what is necessary.

00:13:34.600 Heed the advice Mandela once gave his son to never give up the battle, even in the darkest hour and find hope.

00:13:43.600 I see it in the newest generation of activists for equality and justice who are mobilizing people of all ages and races, all faiths and walks of life to lace up their shoes and join the march.

00:13:58.560 Thoughts on that?

00:14:03.740 It's just meaningless, isn't it?

00:14:05.440 It's absolutely meaningless.

00:14:07.160 It is the language of woke.

00:14:09.880 And when you break it down, it doesn't equate to a single thing.

00:14:15.620 And I think we are sick of being preached to by Prince Harry when we know how he treats the folk around him.

00:14:22.340 We are certainly sick of being preached to by Meghan, given that you talk about Yuvaldi, Meghan.

00:14:28.220 And the thing you didn't mention is the fact that when she did make that sick publicity stunt visit, apparently followed by her Netflix cameras, her father, Thomas Markle, a man who I know very well, lay in hospital just an hour's drive or a couple of hours drive from her home in Montecito, having suffered from a serious stroke.

00:14:52.240 And she chose to make that visit, that sick visit to Yuvaldi, rather than going to be by the bedside of her father.

00:15:00.100 And let me tell you, Meghan, at that point, it was touch and go as to whether Thomas Markle was going to survive his stroke.

00:15:06.040 And I think that sums up the type of person Meghan is.

00:15:10.080 So why are we being lectured to about the way that we should live by two human beings who actually treat the folk around them so terribly?

00:15:20.480 And that's something else that has really emerged from Tom Bauer's book.

00:15:23.320 And I'll tell you, Meghan, Tom Bauer, I know him well, is actually going to be on my show later this week talking about this book.

00:15:28.100 And he is one of the world's best biographers.

00:15:30.620 You know, he has gone for Boris Johnson in the past.

00:15:33.880 He's gone for Simon Cowell in the past.

00:15:35.580 He's gone for Bernie Eccleston in the past.

00:15:37.580 This guy does his research.

00:15:40.080 He spoke to everyone who knew Meghan in the years before she was famous and the years she was on Suits and then the years that she entered the world family.

00:15:50.560 And it's damning about her.

00:15:52.200 And one of the things that is most damning is the way that she tramples over the little guys to get to the top.

00:15:58.440 And I remember speaking to one of the directors of a film that Meghan had been in.

00:16:02.520 And he said exactly the same thing to me.

00:16:05.580 She was demanding.

00:16:07.420 She wanted bigger and better hotel suites than the £1,500 a night hotel suite she was already staying in.

00:16:16.160 And I think this couple have now been exposed, which is one of the reasons that there hasn't really been any positive hype around this UN appearance.

00:16:24.280 We're all just looking at it and thinking, why did the UN ever allow them to be there?

00:16:28.860 Why did Nelson Mandela choose such a divisive couple to represent this amazing man?

00:16:36.400 Mm-hmm.

00:16:37.040 The one of the things about Meghan Markle is she speaks the same way he does.

00:16:41.780 So it makes sense she writes his speeches, if that's true.

00:16:44.620 And you were talking about...

00:16:45.580 That's what I've been told anyway.

00:16:47.140 I've been told she writes them all.

00:16:49.540 And he's not the sharpest tool in the shed.

00:16:51.680 You have to remember that.

00:16:52.540 Intellectually, he is not one of the brightest guys.

00:16:56.360 So I absolutely believe that he is manipulated by Meghan and his political views certainly, Meghan, come from her.

00:17:04.000 Because remember, this was a bloke who was in the army.

00:17:06.920 You know, he used to love reading The Sun newspaper where I used to work.

00:17:10.400 And The Sun, remember, had the page three girls, Meghan, where, you know, which was the topless woman.

00:17:15.440 You'd open up the newspaper and you'd see the topless girl on page three.

00:17:19.120 And he was into that sort of lifestyle.

00:17:21.600 He was the opposite of woke.

00:17:23.580 And so he has been manipulated.

00:17:26.040 He has signed up to this ideology as a result of...

00:17:29.340 Oh, yeah.

00:17:29.520 Now he's a feminist with a guttural reaction to Roe being overturned.

00:17:34.420 And this is her.

00:17:35.280 Listen to her and her drivel in this Vogue article that she did with Gloria Steinem.

00:17:40.900 This is her BFF now, who she was spotted with after the UN trip, by the way.

00:17:45.940 So this is Markle in Vogue.

00:17:48.620 Men need to be vocal in this moment.

00:17:50.740 She goes on to say, we have to do the work.

00:17:55.040 Oh, my God.

00:17:55.720 I threw up in my mouth.

00:17:57.520 We have to do the work.

00:17:59.280 This moment requires unity, really listening to people, understanding the Constitution was

00:18:04.560 written at a time when women were second-class citizens.

00:18:09.160 We're not.

00:18:10.520 We're not.

00:18:11.620 Certain things need to change.

00:18:13.160 I think it's equally about honoring the people who've been doing the work long before us,

00:18:19.420 like Gloria and so on and so forth.

00:18:22.220 My God, this is straight out of, like, Yale Law School after-class coffees where we need to do the work.

00:18:30.460 We're not second-class.

00:18:31.940 My God, Dan.

00:18:33.340 Like, this couple and the hubris that they think with absolutely no meaningful life experience,

00:18:38.140 they have any sort of wisdom to offer us on the Constitution, on climate change, or how the rest of us should live.

00:18:45.800 And that's not even to speak of the dynamic of somebody like Harry, with his life of privilege,

00:18:50.640 trying to stand up there and deprivifize the world.

00:18:54.860 I know, you couldn't make it up.

00:18:58.740 And I think this is one of the reasons, though, Megan, that he is so dangerous to the royal family

00:19:04.240 and why there is still so much concern amongst the corridors at Buckingham Palace and Clarence House,

00:19:11.200 where Prince Charles is based, and Kensington Palace, where Prince William is based.

00:19:14.340 Because where does this logically end?

00:19:18.000 If you just think it through, there's no way that Harry and Meghan, with this woke philosophy,

00:19:25.520 can sign up to the concept of the monarchy.

00:19:29.600 Because if you're woke and if you genuinely believe in this sort of socialist hellscape

00:19:35.160 that they seem to want us to enter into, there's no monarchy as part of that.

00:19:40.260 So even though I think what he's saying is totally ridiculous,

00:19:44.560 doesn't stack up at all to the way they live their life.

00:19:48.880 It's going to be fascinating to see over the next few years.

00:19:51.740 And obviously, Megan, you won't hear this while the Queen is still on planet Earth,

00:19:57.780 because he knows that it would be incredibly disrespectful to speak out

00:20:03.760 and come out against the concept of monarchy when his grandmother was still alive.

00:20:08.140 But I just wonder, I just wonder if in the years to come,

00:20:11.600 this woke virtue signalling is actually going to become a campaign

00:20:15.880 for Britain to become a republic from Prince Harry and Prince Meghan.

00:20:20.440 And when you just think about Prince Meghan, when you think about that

00:20:22.900 and you think about what that means, I just find it completely fascinating.

00:20:27.260 And that is why, despite the fact that this speech can so easily be mocked

00:20:32.160 and their virtue signalling can so easily be torn down,

00:20:35.560 because as you've just proven, Meghan, it is a bunch of mumbo-jumbo nonsense,

00:20:40.280 they are a threat.

00:20:41.960 They remain a very real threat to the future of the monarchy.

00:20:45.340 Yeah, everything they say right now is just an air sandwich.

00:20:48.980 You know, you're just waiting for anything to resonate, and it never does.

00:20:53.120 But on that Bauer book, he seems to be, I don't know, you tell me what's happening,

00:20:58.220 because you have at the same time the palace refusing to release the report on her bullying.

00:21:04.000 Right. There was a report, an internal report on her bullying the staff,

00:21:07.800 and it seemed like they didn't want to poke the bear by making it public.

00:21:13.580 But at the same time, Bauer's coming out with his book,

00:21:16.220 and he's clearly had access to some people close to the royal family,

00:21:18.940 because they're talking about how the Queen didn't want Meghan at Prince Philip's funeral,

00:21:23.800 about how she was the one who desperately wanted them to be on the balcony for the Jubilee,

00:21:32.480 and Charles vetoed it, and Harry asked specifically if, like, he tried to make it happen,

00:21:36.980 because Meghan wanted it, but Prince Charles said no,

00:21:39.940 and that they were both furious after their Jubilee plans were blocked,

00:21:43.920 of course, because they wanted to be on camera.

00:21:46.380 So what's happening? What's the palace doing here?

00:21:49.240 The machinations were absolutely fascinating, and I think it backs up what I've just said.

00:21:54.140 The palace are terrified of this couple, because if that report into Meghan's treatment of staff,

00:22:01.920 and remember, the accusations of bullying are widespread.

00:22:06.880 Meghan, this is not one or two staff members. It is far more than that.

00:22:10.780 I spoke to a lot of folk who worked for Meghan over the course of her time in the royal family,

00:22:15.000 and she treated people atrociously, to the point, Meghan, where it was actually Kate, Kate Middleton,

00:22:21.200 who approached Meghan Markle one day and said to her,

00:22:26.300 I'm sorry, you can't speak to my staff like this.

00:22:30.460 This is not how we do things in the royal family.

00:22:33.440 We have respect for people,

00:22:36.100 because Meghan was basically treating them as if they were Hollywood servants of hers,

00:22:40.640 and that's not the relationship that the royal family have with their staff.

00:22:45.320 It's a very different setup, and it's a setup that is based on huge respect,

00:22:49.100 because you don't get paid a lot to work for the royal family.

00:22:51.160 You don't get paid a lot, but you are part of the family,

00:22:53.760 and you live within the grounds of the royal palaces.

00:22:57.300 So it's a very different setup to what Meghan was expecting,

00:23:00.660 where she thought she could just boss these people around.

00:23:03.980 And look, there are people who have been in tears constantly

00:23:06.640 because of the treatment that Meghan provided them when she was in the royal family.

00:23:12.040 And these are the people, by the way,

00:23:13.300 who she claims were bullying her to the point of suicidal feelings.

00:23:18.100 Well, come on, come on, pull the other one, as if.

00:23:21.980 But what's so telling is that Buckingham Palace,

00:23:24.900 in their attempt to try and smooth relations between Harry, Meghan,

00:23:29.280 and the rest of the family, have said that report will never be released.

00:23:33.520 My goodness, if someone has that report, please, God, leak it to me,

00:23:37.380 because I think the world needs to know.

00:23:40.100 But Harry is so delighted, and Meghan is so delighted,

00:23:43.260 because you know her ambitions for a political career, Meghan?

00:23:46.300 Look, we can laugh about it, because clearly it does seem like a delusion,

00:23:50.120 but it is a delusion that she is pursuing.

00:23:53.560 And it would almost be killed off from the start, wouldn't it,

00:23:56.780 if there was the official release of a Buckingham Palace independent legal report

00:24:01.000 saying she was a big bully.

00:24:03.300 So from Harry and Meghan's point of view,

00:24:05.620 they've almost threatened the royal family for the past two years.

00:24:10.980 And because the royal family have been so shaken and stirred

00:24:15.020 by what they said in the Oprah interview, the accusations of racism,

00:24:18.360 you might remember the royal tour that Prince William and Kate made

00:24:22.600 to the Caribbean earlier this year in Jamaica.

00:24:24.920 It was a disaster.

00:24:25.920 It was a complete disaster.

00:24:27.100 All of these folk in the Caribbean now, these young folk in the Caribbean,

00:24:30.560 think, oh, my goodness, the royal family is racist.

00:24:33.160 Well, where does that come from, Meghan?

00:24:34.880 It comes from the Oprah interview,

00:24:36.980 where Meghan made these false claims about racism within the royal family.

00:24:40.460 And I am happy to say that they are false based on my reporting.

00:24:44.040 And so what they've done is successfully threatened the royal family enough,

00:24:48.400 the men in grey suits, as Harry and Meghan like to refer to them.

00:24:51.440 And what it means is that this report will remain forever buried.

00:24:57.280 Until her opponent gets his or her hands on it,

00:25:00.840 if and when she actually does try to run.

00:25:03.320 Somehow somebody will get it.

00:25:04.860 All right.

00:25:05.180 Two questions for you are related to this whole discussion on wokeism

00:25:09.100 and on climate change.

00:25:11.040 They're two big issues.

00:25:13.000 The UK presenters, which is how we refer to the news anchors over there,

00:25:19.300 seem to be having a meltdown, pardon the pun, on the temperature.

00:25:23.780 It's very hot in the UK right now.

00:25:26.040 It's very hot in the Midwest.

00:25:27.340 It's hot in New York City.

00:25:29.540 And of course, they parlay this into catastrophic climate change.

00:25:34.380 It's here.

00:25:35.280 And even back home here for us,

00:25:37.800 the president is talking now about a possible emergency action

00:25:41.420 on climate change that he's going to try to do again,

00:25:44.580 like pen and phone, like what we saw with Obama

00:25:46.780 at a time when there's very little he can do

00:25:50.320 without adding to our rising gas prices,

00:25:52.740 which are already at near record levels and so on.

00:25:55.560 So why is there so much?

00:25:58.340 I don't know, just fanning oneself,

00:26:00.860 both physically and metaphorically,

00:26:03.020 over what are high temperatures?

00:26:04.560 It's like 99, 101 Fahrenheit.

00:26:07.260 What's happening?

00:26:08.820 The mainstream media have been absolutely appalling in this country, Megan.

00:26:12.300 And I think they are using a 48-hour heat wave.

00:26:16.140 This is 48 hours of high temperatures.

00:26:18.320 Yes, they are record temperatures.

00:26:19.780 But in 1976, there was a famous heat wave in Britain

00:26:24.060 where there were plus 30 degrees Celsius temperatures

00:26:27.060 for 16 days in a row.

00:26:29.040 This is two days, but it is immediately being used

00:26:32.740 by the health establishment to try and say

00:26:35.760 there should be a ban on air conditioning

00:26:39.580 so that we can pursue net zero quicker.

00:26:42.980 There should be limitations on the hours

00:26:45.740 that people are allowed to work.

00:26:47.900 There should be new human resources laws brought in

00:26:51.180 so that businesses can no longer operate

00:26:54.540 if the temperature reaches over 25 degrees Celsius.

00:26:57.120 And to me, this is all part of the march

00:26:59.680 from the socialist health establishment

00:27:02.780 that we saw gain a lot of power

00:27:04.980 during the COVID-19 pandemic to control us,

00:27:08.740 to dictate the way that we live.

00:27:11.840 And I've been really disturbed actually

00:27:13.680 to see even a Conservative government minister

00:27:15.960 come out this week and say,

00:27:18.040 stay at home if you need to because of the heat.

00:27:21.680 And the media are reporting

00:27:23.480 there are going to be thousands of deaths

00:27:25.680 because of this two-day heat.

00:27:27.120 Number one, complete rubbish.

00:27:29.380 I mean, that is not true.

00:27:31.240 Less than 1,000 people die of extreme heat

00:27:34.260 in the UK each year.

00:27:36.460 So that's the first thing.

00:27:37.820 Number two, there's absolutely no reason

00:27:40.880 why young and healthy people cannot be operating

00:27:43.720 in these temperatures.

00:27:45.160 Sure, if you are older or if you're vulnerable,

00:27:48.300 absolutely we must.

00:27:49.640 But this is a really worrying march

00:27:53.260 towards the nanny state here in the UK.

00:27:55.780 The health establishment have control.

00:27:58.000 The green zealots have control.

00:28:00.420 The net zero agenda is on the march.

00:28:02.780 And the media,

00:28:04.060 I've actually described it, Megan,

00:28:05.420 in a column I wrote for the Mail Online yesterday,

00:28:07.580 it's fair porn because they are just loving it.

00:28:11.740 And I actually think they got addicted

00:28:13.680 to a climate of fear

00:28:15.760 over the course of the COVID pandemic,

00:28:17.480 didn't they?

00:28:18.060 They want to terrify us.

00:28:20.000 They feel it's their job

00:28:21.620 and it's good for ratings.

00:28:23.700 And for me, I am calling it out.

00:28:26.160 Look, I don't like this extreme heat.

00:28:28.380 It's pretty difficult in London getting about.

00:28:31.580 But come on, I'm in the office.

00:28:33.680 It's absolutely fine.

00:28:35.080 I'm not stopping anything that I'm doing.

00:28:37.100 I'm still walking about.

00:28:38.360 And the hysteria is basically being used,

00:28:41.740 I believe, to create a nation of people

00:28:45.860 who live in fear.

00:28:47.760 And this is Britain, Megan.

00:28:49.540 This is the Winston Churchill stiff upper lip.

00:28:53.700 We fight on.

00:28:54.740 We keep calm and carry on.

00:28:56.560 And what has happened

00:28:57.880 to that World War II approach to life,

00:29:00.420 which really did define the 20th century in the UK?

00:29:05.220 It feels like it's long gone.

00:29:07.640 And that is a real shame.

00:29:09.880 Now you're stuck with Prince Harry.

00:29:11.660 Well, more accurately, we're stuck with him.

00:29:14.100 Thanks, Dan.

00:29:14.960 Yeah, you are, luckily.

00:29:16.440 Wait, one last question.

00:29:17.660 Speaking of, you know, the wokeism piece of this.

00:29:21.700 There's some BBC presenter.

00:29:23.880 I do not know how to pronounce her name.

00:29:25.860 The last name is Barber.

00:29:27.760 The one who commented on the women's soccer team.

00:29:31.320 How do you pronounce her name?

00:29:33.680 Ailey Barber.

00:29:34.700 She is a Scottish TV presenter.

00:29:36.720 And I couldn't believe this.

00:29:39.180 All right.

00:29:39.460 So, FYI, the women's soccer team did very well.

00:29:45.060 There was a record-breaking victory against Norway

00:29:47.320 during the Women's Euro 2022.

00:29:50.540 And Ms. Barber, the BBC presenter,

00:29:55.900 went on the air to talk about this amazing victory

00:29:58.460 and had this to say.

00:30:01.100 Watch.

00:30:02.160 An historic eight-goal victory for England last night

00:30:05.580 as the Lionesses secured their place in the quarterfinals.

00:30:09.300 But all starting 11 players and the five substitutes

00:30:12.400 that came onto the pitch were all white.

00:30:15.300 And that does point towards a lack of diversity

00:30:18.300 in the women's game.

00:30:20.540 Dan, how inappropriate.

00:30:24.960 And by the way, apparently not even accurate.

00:30:29.080 No, there were three non-white members of the team.

00:30:32.800 They just hadn't made the squad on that particular day.

00:30:36.160 And then the BBC followed this up, Megan,

00:30:37.760 with a full-on investigation into how shocking it was

00:30:42.500 that this team is all white

00:30:45.020 and what it's doing to role models for sports in the UK.

00:30:48.820 Problem is, Megan, there's no issue with diversity in football.

00:30:52.820 The Lionesses, that's what we call our female football team here,

00:30:55.700 and they're very popular,

00:30:57.020 have had a black manager for longer than any other manager.

00:31:02.000 Most of the most famous star players in that team have been black.

00:31:07.300 So what is the BBC saying?

00:31:08.620 What is the BBC suggesting with this?

00:31:10.240 That there should now be racial quotas when it comes to football?

00:31:14.500 That a coach should start thinking about the ethnic makeup of a team

00:31:19.380 when selecting who's going to go on the pitch on a particular day?

00:31:22.020 And it's very interesting, Megan,

00:31:23.280 because the BBC never has a problem

00:31:24.660 when some of our brilliant athletic teams, for example,

00:31:27.240 that do very well in the relay races at the Olympics

00:31:29.920 and the Commonwealth Games, happen to be all black.

00:31:33.540 So what's so despicable about this BBC coverage?

00:31:36.400 Because the BBC, they claim to be an organisation that loves Britain.

00:31:40.560 If you look at the BBC closely, Megan,

00:31:42.440 they despise Britain, actually.

00:31:44.320 They want to bring Britain down.

00:31:47.020 And to me, that was the coverage during the Euros final,

00:31:52.180 when they should have been tub-thumping for our team.

00:31:54.500 They should have been saying,

00:31:55.280 oh my goodness, this team just thrashed their opposition

00:31:58.680 by a record margin in the last game.

00:32:00.580 It was 8-0, by the way, Megan.

00:32:02.140 I'm not a big soccer fan, but I'm told, reliably informed,

00:32:06.160 that's a record.

00:32:07.160 And instead of doing that, instead of being patriotic,

00:32:09.760 instead of supporting this team,

00:32:11.600 they felt like they had to denigrate them

00:32:14.040 because of the ethnic makeup.

00:32:15.940 And it, to me, sums up what's wrong

00:32:19.460 with the media in this country.

00:32:21.060 It's racist.

00:32:22.420 It actually is point-blank racist.

00:32:26.140 And it's why people are turning off the BBC

00:32:28.160 and their drives.

00:32:28.700 Because can you believe it, Megan?

00:32:29.940 I mean, I know you've got PBS in the States,

00:32:31.580 but can you believe we have to spend £159

00:32:35.680 every single year just in order to turn on the television?

00:32:40.960 And that funds the BBC.

00:32:43.240 And the BBC competes against media organisations

00:32:46.800 like the one that I work for, GB News.

00:32:49.240 And they have literally billions of pounds pumped into it

00:32:53.800 because we have to force facts.

00:32:55.300 Even if I never watch one minute of the BBC

00:32:57.960 for an entire year,

00:33:00.760 because I have a television set

00:33:02.820 and I want to turn on another television channel,

00:33:05.280 I still have to pay what is effectively a poll tax

00:33:08.720 for the BBC.

00:33:09.460 And the BBC doesn't represent me.

00:33:11.740 It increasingly doesn't represent millions of other Brits

00:33:15.540 who are just furious with examples of broadcasting like that.

00:33:19.000 And also the fact, Megan, that actually,

00:33:20.780 I don't call it the BBC these days.

00:33:22.560 I call it the Boris bashing corporation

00:33:25.300 because the BBC was on a nine-month campaign

00:33:29.600 to depose the democratically elected prime minister

00:33:32.180 of this country, Boris Johnson.

00:33:33.480 And as you know, they succeeded.

00:33:35.720 They did it, yeah.

00:33:37.320 I mean, back here,

00:33:38.660 one of our conservative commentators,

00:33:40.860 Victor Davis Hanson, has been saying,

00:33:42.460 okay, you want perfect parity in sports?

00:33:44.700 Let's do the NBA.

00:33:46.140 How about that?

00:33:47.100 Let's make sure we have adequate representation

00:33:48.880 of white guys, Jewish guys, Indian guys.

00:33:53.820 Let's do it.

00:33:54.920 You know, yeah, sure.

00:33:55.760 Forget merit.

00:33:56.700 You know, it doesn't matter who's the best.

00:33:57.880 Let's make sure it's just this perfect,

00:33:59.240 let's get trans men in there.

00:34:00.980 Let's make sure we got every group covered

00:34:02.600 and see how the super woke feel then.

00:34:05.080 Or I've been talking about sports.

00:34:06.840 We mentioned Serena Williams.

00:34:08.460 Great.

00:34:09.080 Let's get trans men or trans women, I should say,

00:34:11.320 which is biological men,

00:34:12.920 playing professional tennis against Serena Williams

00:34:14.940 and Naomi Osaka and all the favorite women,

00:34:18.840 you know, sort of fierce female warriors

00:34:20.800 that are celebrated.

00:34:22.100 See how you like it then.

00:34:23.060 Am I your perfect parody?

00:34:24.160 See how that goes.

00:34:24.980 Okay.

00:34:25.640 Of course, this is the way they believe

00:34:28.180 that we should be living, though,

00:34:29.340 because the BBC in that package

00:34:31.920 that followed the clip that you played

00:34:33.360 interviewed young campaigners

00:34:35.720 who said a sports person

00:34:38.080 can only be a role model

00:34:39.460 if we see ourselves

00:34:41.500 in the particular sports people.

00:34:43.920 What utter baloney.

00:34:45.600 I mean, I think of the biggest sports people

00:34:48.920 in the world in history.

00:34:50.560 Who are they in my head?

00:34:52.040 Tiger Woods, Simone Biles,

00:34:54.740 Serena Williams,

00:34:56.060 Muhammad Ali, Jackie Robinson.

00:34:58.120 Oh, I can't see myself in them.

00:35:01.660 It doesn't matter.

00:35:03.420 It does not matter.

00:35:05.340 They are the best

00:35:06.300 and most exciting sports people of all time.

00:35:08.600 I don't give a damn about their color.

00:35:11.820 And for me, this path

00:35:14.200 that we are teaching young people

00:35:15.780 that they have to be able

00:35:17.180 to see themselves in their role model

00:35:19.460 is just so scary.

00:35:22.040 It's terrifying

00:35:23.200 because what does that say

00:35:24.920 about the future segregation of society?

00:35:27.460 And actually where we are going to end up

00:35:29.380 with issues like quotas

00:35:31.920 or sports team managers

00:35:34.700 being absolutely terrified

00:35:36.400 about picking the best people for the team

00:35:37.940 because they're going to be accused of racism

00:35:39.400 by organizations like the BBC.

00:35:42.280 And I just have to say

00:35:43.280 one other hilarious thing, Megan,

00:35:44.580 just very quickly,

00:35:45.660 because I then researched

00:35:48.020 the BBC's first 11

00:35:50.420 because you know there's a first 11

00:35:51.960 when it comes to the football team.

00:35:53.960 You know, you've got your 11 people on the pitch

00:35:55.540 and the BBC just on the same day

00:35:58.120 that they broadcast that

00:35:59.120 had released their rich list.

00:36:01.380 They have to reveal

00:36:02.380 their top paid staff members.

00:36:05.340 Guess what, Megan?

00:36:06.920 Their top 11 presenters,

00:36:09.520 every single one of them, white.

00:36:12.000 And you don't see the BBC

00:36:13.780 investigating that disparity, do you?

00:36:17.000 BBC so white.

00:36:18.780 Coming soon.

00:36:20.480 Dan, such a pleasure.

00:36:21.800 Don't forget, Dan's on GB News.

00:36:23.960 If you happen to be in the UK and see it,

00:36:25.660 you should check it out.

00:36:26.320 Go to go check it out online as well.

00:36:28.060 I constantly update my website

00:36:30.260 and I follow them on Twitter

00:36:31.160 and it's well worth it.

00:36:32.200 And you'll hear different voices

00:36:33.240 on some of the favorite issues

00:36:35.020 that you hear on this program

00:36:36.100 that wouldn't be highlighted

00:36:37.680 in any place here domestically.

00:36:39.420 So you'll love it.

00:36:40.300 And Dan's the best.

00:36:41.760 Great to see you, my friend.

00:36:43.160 Thank you, Megan.

00:36:43.680 Speak soon.

00:36:45.020 OK, coming up.

00:36:45.760 One of the most infamous cyber criminals.

00:36:49.080 Now he's working as a good guy ever.

00:36:51.480 Don't miss him.

00:36:59.680 Our next guest is infamous

00:37:01.980 in the world of cybercrime,

00:37:03.640 known by the Secret Service

00:37:04.800 as the original Internet Godfather,

00:37:07.940 the OG.

00:37:09.260 His life of crime began at 10 years old

00:37:11.760 and he went on to create

00:37:13.060 the first organized cybercrime community

00:37:15.940 called Shadow Crew.

00:37:17.300 He once escaped from prison

00:37:20.080 and landed himself

00:37:21.340 on the U.S. Most Wanted list.

00:37:22.840 How about that?

00:37:23.780 After going on a cross-country crime spree,

00:37:26.440 stealing over 400,000 from ATMs.

00:37:30.020 How does one do that?

00:37:31.500 In total, he served

00:37:32.920 seven and a half years in prison,

00:37:34.280 including eight months

00:37:35.080 in solitary confinement.

00:37:37.580 But he is now a changed man

00:37:39.960 and has crossed over to the other side.

00:37:42.300 He's a security consultant

00:37:43.420 and a public speaker

00:37:44.720 and consult with Fortune 500 companies

00:37:47.300 and law enforcement,

00:37:48.960 things, places like the FBI,

00:37:50.960 to help protect them and us

00:37:52.600 from the kind of criminal

00:37:53.560 he once was.

00:37:55.120 In addition to telling

00:37:56.140 his fascinating story,

00:37:57.100 he will also share

00:37:57.940 how we can best protect ourselves

00:37:59.400 from criminals

00:38:01.320 like the one he used to be.

00:38:03.280 I'd love to welcome

00:38:04.160 Brett Johnson to the show.

00:38:05.420 Brett, thank you so much

00:38:06.160 for being here.

00:38:07.460 Megan, I appreciate it.

00:38:08.360 Thank you for having me.

00:38:09.580 I love your story.

00:38:10.840 I mean, it's like,

00:38:11.460 it's full of all sorts of fun color.

00:38:13.140 I mean, I get it.

00:38:15.180 It's fun to listen to,

00:38:16.140 not to live.

00:38:17.540 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:38:18.400 I mean, now that you've crossed over,

00:38:19.660 we can have a laugh about it

00:38:21.060 and learn from it,

00:38:21.880 which is a story of redemption.

00:38:23.980 And I love redemption stories.

00:38:25.920 So take us back.

00:38:27.340 I grew up in Kentucky, right?

00:38:29.280 It was in Kentucky,

00:38:30.700 eastern Kentucky.

00:38:31.660 It was eastern Kentucky.

00:38:33.540 I grew up in Hazard, Kentucky,

00:38:34.960 right in the heart of coal country.

00:38:36.260 Um, my mom was basically the,

00:38:40.580 the fraudster of the entire industry there.

00:38:42.560 At one point,

00:38:43.000 she steals a 108,000 pound

00:38:45.480 Caterpillar D9 bulldozer.

00:38:46.960 At another point,

00:38:47.840 she takes a slip and fall

00:38:48.960 in convenience store.

00:38:50.140 That's mom.

00:38:51.060 We had a neighbor

00:38:51.760 that she acted as a pimp for.

00:38:54.720 That's my mother.

00:38:56.260 And it wasn't just my mom

00:38:58.440 that was like that.

00:38:59.100 It was that entire side of the family

00:39:01.040 was involved in some sort of scams

00:39:03.760 or hustles, frauds,

00:39:04.880 whatever you want to call it.

00:39:05.680 I didn't really know that

00:39:06.820 until I got to be about 10 years old.

00:39:09.000 My dad was a helicopter pilot,

00:39:12.660 captain in the U S army.

00:39:15.200 His problem was,

00:39:16.320 is he loved my mom so much

00:39:17.820 that he became the enabler.

00:39:19.200 If she wanted to commit a crime,

00:39:20.400 he would co-sign onto it.

00:39:21.800 If he, if she wanted to abuse someone,

00:39:24.640 she, he wouldn't step in the way.

00:39:26.280 And, um, she wasn't a very abusive parent.

00:39:29.520 I remember with him,

00:39:30.600 she used to bring men home

00:39:31.640 in front of him.

00:39:32.280 He would sit there and literally cry,

00:39:33.860 beg her not to do it.

00:39:34.720 She'd do it anyway.

00:39:36.400 She finally leaves the man.

00:39:38.120 We were in Panama city, Florida.

00:39:39.460 At that point in time,

00:39:40.240 we moved from Panama city

00:39:41.320 back to hazard Kentucky.

00:39:43.020 And my mom was one of these people

00:39:44.620 that she liked to party.

00:39:46.140 And if we were lucky,

00:39:47.320 she would take me.

00:39:48.240 I was 10.

00:39:48.960 My sister, Denise was nine.

00:39:50.280 She'd take us with her.

00:39:51.100 She'd leave us in the car.

00:39:52.000 Sometimes we'd wait in the living room

00:39:54.100 as she adjourned to the bedroom.

00:39:55.960 Most of the time she just left it us at home.

00:39:58.440 And the way I committed my first crime,

00:40:01.400 my mom was gone for a few days.

00:40:04.160 I'm the kid that, uh,

00:40:05.560 I get the worst parts from my mom and my dad.

00:40:07.660 From my mom,

00:40:08.140 I get that criminal mindset from my father.

00:40:10.840 I get that fear of being abandoned

00:40:12.580 of the people that I love leaving.

00:40:14.440 So mom had been gone for a few days.

00:40:16.980 I'd post up at the door,

00:40:18.280 kind of look outside,

00:40:19.100 see if she's coming home.

00:40:19.960 Sometimes I'd walk out into the driveway,

00:40:21.660 see if she's driving down the street.

00:40:23.560 Denise,

00:40:24.620 my sister at nine years old,

00:40:26.700 she wasn't like that.

00:40:27.620 My sister was just the child

00:40:29.400 who was angry all the time.

00:40:31.480 So, um,

00:40:32.840 we didn't have any food in the house.

00:40:34.120 Denise walks in one day

00:40:35.160 and she's got this pack

00:40:36.020 of pork chops in her hand.

00:40:37.380 And I'm like,

00:40:38.020 where'd you get that?

00:40:38.820 And she's like,

00:40:39.200 I stole it.

00:40:39.920 And I'm like,

00:40:40.400 show me how you did that.

00:40:42.660 So she takes me over,

00:40:43.880 shows me how she's shoplifting food.

00:40:45.860 And I'm like,

00:40:46.660 best idea ever.

00:40:47.980 Let's do that.

00:40:49.140 So we start stealing food,

00:40:50.820 look across the way.

00:40:51.660 There's a Kmart over there.

00:40:52.740 Kmart's got clothes

00:40:54.200 and books and jewelry

00:40:55.100 and toys and everything.

00:40:56.200 So start taking that.

00:40:59.100 Mom comes home,

00:41:00.160 sees all the stolen stuff

00:41:01.360 we've gotten,

00:41:02.180 asks where it came from.

00:41:03.340 I'm 10 years old.

00:41:04.200 I stand up.

00:41:04.840 We found it.

00:41:06.280 She's like,

00:41:06.840 no,

00:41:07.000 you didn't find that.

00:41:08.040 My sister,

00:41:08.860 Denise,

00:41:09.240 she's nine,

00:41:10.200 nine years old.

00:41:11.000 And she never lies at all about it.

00:41:12.240 She stands up.

00:41:13.000 We stole it.

00:41:14.280 My mom looks at my sister.

00:41:16.160 Show me how you did that.

00:41:17.580 And she joins us.

00:41:18.760 Not only does she join us,

00:41:20.680 but she goes to get her mother

00:41:21.860 to join us as well.

00:41:22.820 We've,

00:41:23.020 we've become this

00:41:23.600 intergenerational shoplifting ring

00:41:25.560 in Eastern Kentucky.

00:41:26.820 And that's,

00:41:27.660 um,

00:41:28.620 that's the first crime

00:41:29.400 I really committed right there.

00:41:30.500 And I,

00:41:30.860 and,

00:41:31.380 and I like,

00:41:32.360 I like people to know

00:41:33.500 that I don't blame my child

00:41:34.820 childhood on my choices

00:41:37.200 as an adult,

00:41:37.980 because that's not the truth.

00:41:39.420 My choices as an adult are mine.

00:41:41.740 When you're a child,

00:41:42.760 you can't help that.

00:41:43.580 You have to do what the adults

00:41:44.640 in your circle do.

00:41:45.720 But once you become an adult,

00:41:46.920 I,

00:41:47.160 I made the active decision

00:41:48.740 to victimize other people

00:41:50.860 and commit crimes.

00:41:51.860 Uh,

00:41:52.300 my sister had the exact same

00:41:53.680 upbringing that I did

00:41:54.680 other than that one

00:41:55.440 shoplifting experience.

00:41:56.900 She doesn't break the law again.

00:41:58.420 She goes off to be a great teacher,

00:41:59.860 a parent,

00:42:00.520 just a good citizen overall.

00:42:02.440 I'm the guy that kept on going.

00:42:04.020 And as I kept going,

00:42:05.140 I got more involved

00:42:06.660 in the types of crimes

00:42:07.760 that my mother

00:42:08.740 and that entire side

00:42:09.680 of the family committed.

00:42:10.640 So we're talking

00:42:11.340 insurance fraud,

00:42:12.380 charity fraud,

00:42:13.380 faking accidents,

00:42:15.240 uh,

00:42:16.120 burglaries,

00:42:17.160 drug trafficking,

00:42:18.080 illegally mining coal,

00:42:19.640 you name it,

00:42:20.380 until I finally branched off

00:42:21.980 on my own.

00:42:23.460 You,

00:42:24.180 that's a fascinating backstory.

00:42:25.360 And I thank you for sharing that

00:42:26.740 because you make a good point

00:42:28.300 about the distinction

00:42:28.960 between you and Denise,

00:42:30.080 but it's also true

00:42:32.500 that that moral imprint

00:42:33.680 was made on you

00:42:34.900 by your,

00:42:35.980 by your mom,

00:42:36.540 by your parents.

00:42:37.160 I mean,

00:42:37.300 that's just,

00:42:37.720 there's no denying

00:42:38.500 your parents have some influence,

00:42:40.760 you know,

00:42:40.980 the children come into the world

00:42:42.280 and there's some

00:42:42.820 predetermined behaviors for sure.

00:42:44.640 We all know that if we have kids,

00:42:45.680 there's like the energetic one

00:42:47.240 and the one who's more lazy

00:42:48.220 and so on,

00:42:48.880 but the parents have the opportunity

00:42:50.580 to make a moral imprint.

00:42:51.860 So I'm not saying

00:42:52.720 it's not your fault

00:42:53.580 or I'm trying to give you an excuse,

00:42:54.560 but there's no question.

00:42:56.000 That behavior by your mom

00:42:57.380 had an impact.

00:42:59.080 Could have gone another way,

00:43:00.260 maybe,

00:43:00.560 but it had an impact.

00:43:02.180 Well,

00:43:02.660 you know,

00:43:02.840 it certainly laid the path

00:43:04.560 if I chose to,

00:43:05.520 to make those decisions later on.

00:43:07.440 And that's one of the things

00:43:08.180 that even today

00:43:09.600 I struggle with

00:43:10.740 because I want to accept responsibility

00:43:13.060 and I'm,

00:43:13.700 I'm adamant about my choices

00:43:15.340 being my choices.

00:43:16.540 I believe that we have to do that,

00:43:18.140 but certainly there is

00:43:20.280 that influence in the past.

00:43:21.800 For example,

00:43:22.560 my,

00:43:22.920 my cousin just died

00:43:24.240 the day before yesterday

00:43:25.600 and we grew up together.

00:43:27.960 Five of us boys grew up together

00:43:29.660 and all five of us

00:43:31.660 suffered some sort of damage

00:43:35.600 from our environments.

00:43:37.080 and it's hard to dismiss that.

00:43:39.640 You're absolutely right.

00:43:40.360 It's hard to dismiss that.

00:43:41.320 I think that we,

00:43:42.340 ultimately,

00:43:42.820 we have the decision

00:43:43.940 whether we let

00:43:44.720 our environments control us

00:43:46.840 or we accept responsibility

00:43:48.760 and control ourselves.

00:43:49.880 And you eventually got there

00:43:52.320 maybe a little later than Denise,

00:43:54.500 but you eventually got the,

00:43:56.200 the white hat going

00:43:57.320 instead of the black hat hacking.

00:43:59.160 So,

00:43:59.720 so let's talk about the beginnings of that.

00:44:01.300 Let's talk about it.

00:44:02.040 This is fascinating to me

00:44:02.900 because my husband in another life,

00:44:04.600 now he's a writer,

00:44:05.460 an author,

00:44:05.840 but he,

00:44:07.280 when we met,

00:44:07.860 he was running an internet security firm

00:44:09.620 and they used to have guys

00:44:11.180 who had,

00:44:11.760 who are from Russia

00:44:12.780 or Ukraine

00:44:13.300 working for them

00:44:14.240 because they had had,

00:44:15.480 you know,

00:44:15.680 sort of the black hat tactics

00:44:17.100 that my husband's firm

00:44:19.060 wanted to learn from

00:44:19.940 and help people protect against.

00:44:21.980 And you,

00:44:23.040 you are the,

00:44:23.800 one of the pioneers,

00:44:24.680 Brett.

00:44:25.560 It's funny

00:44:26.100 because when I was reading up on you

00:44:27.260 and it was like your,

00:44:27.940 your list of crimes

00:44:29.000 and the things that you had broken ground on criminally,

00:44:31.140 well,

00:44:31.220 it read like a resume,

00:44:32.160 you know,

00:44:32.340 like almost like a,

00:44:33.300 you were proud,

00:44:33.880 but it didn't come from you.

00:44:34.760 It was just funny

00:44:35.400 the way it was listed,

00:44:36.080 like first person to ever think of,

00:44:38.140 you know,

00:44:38.760 this fishing scheme

00:44:39.740 or what it was.

00:44:40.240 So as I understand it,

00:44:42.280 the very first crime happened,

00:44:43.920 what,

00:44:44.160 when you were around 15

00:44:45.520 and that was a violent crime,

00:44:46.780 but it would kind of set you off

00:44:48.840 on a path of criminality

00:44:51.640 and ostracization

00:44:53.060 that would foster more criminality.

00:44:55.900 So when was the first cyber crime,

00:44:58.820 right?

00:44:59.020 And how old are you?

00:44:59.800 So just so we know,

00:45:00.520 like what year we're talking about

00:45:01.440 when you started to figure out cyber at all.

00:45:04.200 Sure.

00:45:04.380 So I'm now 52

00:45:05.500 and really when I first started into internet crime

00:45:08.460 was 94,

00:45:09.760 95,

00:45:11.040 somewhere around there,

00:45:11.900 probably right at the advent of when you see the internet.

00:45:15.060 Right.

00:45:15.520 So first internet crime,

00:45:18.180 I got married

00:45:18.940 and I faked a car accident

00:45:20.380 to get the money to get married.

00:45:22.220 We moved from Hazard, Kentucky

00:45:23.660 to Lexington.

00:45:25.820 Exactly.

00:45:26.780 So moved from Hazard, Kentucky

00:45:28.500 to Lexington, Kentucky

00:45:29.500 to go to university.

00:45:30.460 I was majoring

00:45:31.440 in English lit

00:45:32.900 and theater.

00:45:34.120 And like I said,

00:45:35.500 I get the worst parts

00:45:36.220 from my mom and my dad.

00:45:37.320 My dad,

00:45:37.820 that fear of being abandoned.

00:45:38.880 So here I am.

00:45:39.580 I've never been able

00:45:40.700 to show love

00:45:42.340 in some sort of healthy way

00:45:44.020 in a relationship.

00:45:44.760 I'm still learning

00:45:45.820 how to do that

00:45:46.540 at 52 years old.

00:45:47.940 Back then,

00:45:49.120 it was,

00:45:49.760 hey,

00:45:50.540 don't worry about working.

00:45:51.940 I've got it.

00:45:52.740 Well,

00:45:52.940 don't worry about the cooking

00:45:53.960 and cleaning.

00:45:54.440 You worry about going to school.

00:45:55.680 I'll do the rest of it.

00:45:56.880 So here I am

00:45:57.940 with a 60 hour a week job,

00:45:59.360 18 hour class load,

00:46:00.680 all the cooking,

00:46:01.480 all the cleaning,

00:46:02.060 something had to give.

00:46:03.160 What gave was the job

00:46:04.720 and well,

00:46:05.940 you've got to eat.

00:46:06.720 And with that proclivity

00:46:07.940 of fraud

00:46:08.560 that I've already

00:46:08.980 got established.

00:46:10.860 So I was,

00:46:11.820 I was doing little scams

00:46:13.040 and hustles

00:46:13.640 around the Lexington area.

00:46:15.800 And finally,

00:46:16.760 I found eBay

00:46:18.600 and I liked eBay a lot.

00:46:20.140 Didn't really know

00:46:20.740 how to make money on eBay,

00:46:21.960 but fortunately,

00:46:23.500 Bill O'Reilly was around

00:46:24.680 and he was giving me

00:46:25.600 a lot of inspiration

00:46:26.520 on Inside Edition

00:46:27.580 at that point in time.

00:46:28.840 He gave,

00:46:29.540 he was talking about this show.

00:46:30.840 They were doing a show

00:46:31.580 on Beanie Babies

00:46:32.580 and Beanie Babies

00:46:33.480 were the high dollar

00:46:34.300 collectible back then.

00:46:35.280 The one they were profiling

00:46:36.420 was Peanut Royal Blue Elephant.

00:46:38.880 So I was watching,

00:46:39.500 it was selling for $1,500 on eBay.

00:46:41.760 So I was sitting there watching

00:46:42.780 and I was like,

00:46:43.460 man, I need to find me a peanut.

00:46:45.100 So I skipped class the next day,

00:46:46.820 went around all the Hallmark stores

00:46:48.140 looking for the damn animal,

00:46:49.580 couldn't find it,

00:46:50.320 figured out pretty quickly,

00:46:51.320 well, idiot,

00:46:51.900 he's on eBay for $1,500.

00:46:54.320 But they had these little

00:46:56.420 gray Beanie Baby elephants

00:46:57.640 for $8.

00:46:58.200 So you buy

00:47:01.280 a gray Beanie Baby elephant

00:47:02.500 for $8,

00:47:03.620 stop by Kroger

00:47:04.880 on the way home,

00:47:05.640 pick up a pack

00:47:06.240 of blue Rit dye,

00:47:07.800 go home,

00:47:08.160 try to dye the little guy.

00:47:09.760 Turns out

00:47:10.360 they're made out of polyester.

00:47:11.840 They don't hold dye very well.

00:47:13.240 Get them out of the bath,

00:47:14.220 look like they've got the mange.

00:47:15.600 But I ripped a lady

00:47:17.860 off of $1,500

00:47:18.740 and found a picture

00:47:19.660 of a real one online,

00:47:20.620 posted it.

00:47:21.180 She thought I had

00:47:21.660 the real thing.

00:47:22.480 She wins the bid.

00:47:23.780 As soon as she wins the bid,

00:47:25.700 this is where

00:47:26.260 social engineering kicks in.

00:47:27.580 And social engineering

00:47:28.740 is one of these necessities

00:47:30.240 of successfully committing cybercrime.

00:47:33.160 Forgive me for jumping in,

00:47:33.900 but I love the social engineering

00:47:35.300 piece of it.

00:47:35.860 And it's probably

00:47:36.560 one of the most important things

00:47:37.520 we'll discuss.

00:47:38.080 So I don't want to squeeze it in

00:47:39.060 before the break.

00:47:39.680 I want to pause

00:47:40.280 and squeeze in a break here.

00:47:42.100 When we come back,

00:47:42.640 we'll talk about

00:47:43.220 the beginnings

00:47:44.060 of your understanding of that.

00:47:45.460 It's what made you

00:47:46.080 such an effective criminal

00:47:47.100 and it's what makes

00:47:48.120 the rest of us

00:47:48.820 quite vulnerable.

00:47:50.240 Brett's got all

00:47:50.780 you need to know.

00:47:51.460 You were talking about

00:47:56.760 how all your bad decisions

00:47:58.340 started with Bill O'Reilly,

00:47:59.480 which is a story

00:48:00.320 many of us,

00:48:01.460 many of us get.

00:48:02.720 No, just kidding.

00:48:03.780 Just kidding.

00:48:04.620 I figured you could relate.

00:48:06.460 You know,

00:48:07.140 the Beanie Babies,

00:48:07.920 I understand.

00:48:08.520 But there was

00:48:08.780 inside edition days

00:48:10.020 talking about Beanie Babies.

00:48:10.740 So you decided

00:48:11.260 if I can get $1,500

00:48:12.460 for a blue Beanie Baby,

00:48:14.000 I will make a blue Beanie Baby

00:48:15.900 with fake dye

00:48:16.880 and a gray Beanie Baby,

00:48:18.440 sold it for $1,500.

00:48:19.980 And what happened?

00:48:20.940 Did the lady sue you?

00:48:22.660 Like, at that point

00:48:23.740 when it falls apart,

00:48:25.140 doesn't the angry customer

00:48:26.260 get somebody involved?

00:48:28.200 Well, what happens is,

00:48:29.540 as I was saying,

00:48:30.540 social engineering kicks in.

00:48:32.260 As what I've noticed

00:48:33.880 now that I'm

00:48:34.580 on the good guy side of things

00:48:35.700 is that more experienced

00:48:37.280 cyber criminals,

00:48:38.340 the real experts

00:48:39.260 in that arena,

00:48:40.440 they become social engineers

00:48:41.840 as children,

00:48:43.280 like I did,

00:48:44.280 in order to survive

00:48:45.480 my environment.

00:48:46.300 As a child,

00:48:46.920 I had to know

00:48:47.560 what the adults were thinking

00:48:48.680 and try to manipulate that

00:48:50.580 or at least understand

00:48:51.980 what they were doing

00:48:52.820 almost immediately.

00:48:55.120 So I acquired those tools

00:48:57.160 as a child.

00:48:57.860 Then I chose to use those tools

00:48:59.400 once I became an adult.

00:49:00.660 Now, with this victim

00:49:01.560 that I was defrauding,

00:49:03.720 I didn't want to be

00:49:05.140 on the defensive.

00:49:05.880 I wanted to put her

00:49:06.740 on the defensive.

00:49:07.480 So she wins the bid

00:49:08.520 for this fake animal.

00:49:10.240 As soon as she wins the bid,

00:49:11.760 I send her an email.

00:49:12.920 And my email basically says,

00:49:14.180 hey, congratulations.

00:49:15.420 I'm glad you won.

00:49:16.580 By the way,

00:49:17.160 we've never done

00:49:17.800 any business before.

00:49:18.760 I don't,

00:49:19.320 I really don't know

00:49:20.040 if I can trust you.

00:49:21.460 What I need you to do

00:49:22.500 is go down

00:49:23.480 to the U.S. Postal Service,

00:49:24.680 pick up a couple

00:49:25.240 of money orders

00:49:25.940 totaling $1,500.

00:49:27.800 Send those to me.

00:49:28.660 Those are issued

00:49:29.220 by the United States government.

00:49:30.540 They protect us both.

00:49:32.020 Send those to me.

00:49:32.920 As soon as I get those,

00:49:34.080 I'll send you your animal.

00:49:35.520 She believed that.

00:49:36.700 So she sends me

00:49:37.540 the money orders.

00:49:38.200 I cash them out.

00:49:38.980 I send her this creature

00:49:39.880 in the mail.

00:49:40.760 I immediately get a phone call.

00:49:42.100 The phone call was basically,

00:49:43.120 hey, I didn't order this.

00:49:44.220 My response was,

00:49:46.200 lady,

00:49:46.540 you ordered a blue elephant.

00:49:48.320 I sent you a blue-ish elephant.

00:49:52.300 And right there

00:49:53.080 is the first lesson

00:49:55.100 of cybercrime

00:49:56.220 that most criminals learn.

00:49:58.480 And that lesson is,

00:49:59.540 if you delay a victim long enough,

00:50:01.840 you just keep putting them off,

00:50:03.300 a lot of them

00:50:04.000 get so exasperated,

00:50:05.480 they throw their hands

00:50:06.320 in the air,

00:50:07.120 walk away,

00:50:07.840 and you don't hear

00:50:09.160 from them again.

00:50:10.160 And none of them

00:50:11.420 complain to law enforcement.

00:50:13.280 Now, there's several reasons

00:50:14.280 why they don't.

00:50:14.960 They don't know

00:50:15.300 who to complain to.

00:50:16.540 There's jurisdictional problems.

00:50:18.420 We've got 7,500 security companies

00:50:20.980 and a lot of the media

00:50:21.960 that tell people that,

00:50:23.420 hey, these people are hackers.

00:50:24.940 They're computer geniuses.

00:50:25.980 You can't find these people.

00:50:27.680 So because of all that

00:50:28.980 rolled in together,

00:50:30.680 a lot of the victims

00:50:31.660 never complain

00:50:32.720 or file a police report.

00:50:33.920 So you were able

00:50:34.840 to walk away from that crime.

00:50:36.160 That's the first online crime.

00:50:37.240 And also, the other thing is,

00:50:38.060 this has happened

00:50:38.640 in my own history,

00:50:40.140 both when it comes

00:50:41.120 to cyber attempts at crime

00:50:42.840 and actual theft

00:50:44.400 of my purse

00:50:45.220 out of my law firm office

00:50:46.380 one time.

00:50:47.740 And I went down

00:50:48.440 to file a report.

00:50:49.320 They sold 3,000 bucks

00:50:50.340 from my accounts.

00:50:51.560 And the cops just told me,

00:50:52.560 honestly, yeah,

00:50:53.020 we don't even investigate

00:50:53.800 if it's less than 10,000.

00:50:55.600 Oh, right.

00:50:56.460 I guess we won't be finding you guys.

00:50:57.160 And when I was running,

00:50:58.200 you know, you say that,

00:50:59.600 but when I was running Shadow Crew,

00:51:01.800 we were aware

00:51:02.920 of the cities

00:51:04.180 that we were operating in,

00:51:05.660 what the dollar amounts were

00:51:07.320 for that to gain

00:51:08.540 federal interest.

00:51:09.980 And we always tried

00:51:10.700 to stay under

00:51:11.260 those dollar amounts.

00:51:12.920 So that is something

00:51:13.840 that does matter,

00:51:14.760 that dollar amount.

00:51:15.580 It absolutely matters.

00:51:16.560 You know, you take

00:51:16.980 a lot of cities,

00:51:18.660 federal investigations,

00:51:19.640 you have to hit

00:51:20.000 a million dollar mark

00:51:21.060 for the feds

00:51:22.660 to even pick it up

00:51:23.400 and be interested in it.

00:51:24.640 And that's unfortunate

00:51:26.480 at best, unfortunately.

00:51:27.840 Well, that's one of the things

00:51:28.440 my husband told me

00:51:29.140 that at his firm,

00:51:29.960 they would see that

00:51:30.740 like the Russians

00:51:31.460 in particular would get

00:51:32.860 into all these people's accounts

00:51:34.680 and they would just steal

00:51:35.480 one dollar a month.

00:51:37.260 And, you know,

00:51:37.520 you wouldn't even know.

00:51:38.360 You'd have no idea

00:51:39.560 unless you really pour over

00:51:40.820 that bank statement

00:51:41.660 that one dollar a month

00:51:42.940 was being stolen

00:51:43.740 and going out

00:51:44.280 to some weird account.

00:51:45.320 So clever, right?

00:51:46.620 It's like you'd notice

00:51:47.660 a thousand dollars,

00:51:48.580 but one dollar now.

00:51:51.000 Right.

00:51:51.080 And the same thing with

00:51:51.880 you see a lot of fraudsters

00:51:53.100 that do recurring billing.

00:51:54.660 So you'll have like

00:51:55.560 a $4.99 charge

00:51:56.660 on there every single month.

00:51:57.780 And a lot of people

00:51:58.320 don't even notice that

00:51:59.720 because how many streaming services

00:52:01.740 are we paying for?

00:52:02.800 So it just kind of gets

00:52:03.660 mixed in with there.

00:52:04.680 And because of that,

00:52:05.660 some of these billing,

00:52:06.820 these, you know,

00:52:07.460 these illegal things

00:52:08.280 that they last for months,

00:52:09.660 maybe years,

00:52:10.260 a couple, you know,

00:52:11.000 for a few of them.

00:52:12.320 But so you,

00:52:13.020 so I ripped this lady off.

00:52:14.440 Yeah.

00:52:14.780 And then there was a period

00:52:16.500 where, right,

00:52:17.120 because we're going to get

00:52:17.760 to Shadow Crew,

00:52:18.580 which was the big sort of

00:52:19.900 cyber crime organization

00:52:21.340 that you and two other guys

00:52:22.500 really kind of formed

00:52:23.320 that changed the way

00:52:24.980 cyber crime is done.

00:52:26.060 Again, I'm sounding,

00:52:27.180 I'm talking about it

00:52:27.920 like it's good,

00:52:28.860 but people know

00:52:29.400 it's not good,

00:52:30.060 but it's interesting.

00:52:32.180 Anyway,

00:52:32.820 so there was the silver coin crime.

00:52:35.740 That one's kind of sad, Brett.

00:52:39.120 Yeah, it is.

00:52:41.980 There was this lady on eBay

00:52:43.320 and it was not even

00:52:44.600 when I began my career

00:52:46.020 as a cyber criminal.

00:52:47.200 It was during the last days.

00:52:49.640 But I got to the point

00:52:51.800 where I was running

00:52:52.400 counterfeit cashier's checks.

00:52:53.600 I was looking for victims

00:52:55.680 on eBay

00:52:56.280 that were selling bullion,

00:52:58.080 coin collections,

00:52:59.180 watches, diamonds,

00:53:00.320 stuff like that.

00:53:00.960 And I would engineer them

00:53:03.160 or con them

00:53:04.100 into sending me the item

00:53:06.160 as a COD,

00:53:07.360 collect on delivery.

00:53:08.160 So that way,

00:53:08.700 you know,

00:53:08.920 the driver would hand me

00:53:09.900 the package.

00:53:10.480 I'd hand them

00:53:10.920 a counterfeit cashier's check.

00:53:12.480 This lady was

00:53:13.720 selling a coin collection.

00:53:15.740 She was a single parent

00:53:16.600 selling a coin collection

00:53:17.940 to put a roof

00:53:19.860 on her house

00:53:21.520 for her and her kids.

00:53:22.360 And I stole that from her.

00:53:24.600 just one of the,

00:53:27.520 one of the many,

00:53:29.220 many despicable acts

00:53:31.300 that I did.

00:53:32.720 You know,

00:53:33.460 I can't,

00:53:34.180 there's no justification

00:53:35.180 for that.

00:53:36.300 How do you make peace

00:53:36.880 with that now,

00:53:37.460 now that you're

00:53:37.820 on the other side

00:53:38.440 and you take responsibility

00:53:39.540 for it

00:53:40.000 and you've served your time?

00:53:41.540 Do you ever like

00:53:42.020 try to track down

00:53:42.740 these people

00:53:43.140 and try to cut them

00:53:43.780 a check?

00:53:44.420 You know what I mean?

00:53:44.820 Is there,

00:53:45.220 is there any?

00:53:47.020 So I am making restitution.

00:53:49.160 I think this lady

00:53:50.100 did get her,

00:53:50.860 her,

00:53:51.780 you know,

00:53:52.360 she was paid back.

00:53:53.640 I'm not,

00:53:54.280 part of my plea agreement

00:53:55.320 was I'm not allowed

00:53:56.240 to do any freedom

00:53:57.360 of information requests,

00:53:58.440 track down these people,

00:53:59.280 anything else like that.

00:54:00.360 But I do have restitution.

00:54:02.140 I'm making that,

00:54:03.000 making amends.

00:54:04.140 amends.

00:54:05.140 I don't believe

00:54:06.900 that you can make amends

00:54:09.020 for those types of acts.

00:54:11.800 I don't think that,

00:54:12.920 I don't ask for forgiveness.

00:54:14.360 I don't expect forgiveness.

00:54:15.500 I don't,

00:54:16.020 I can't forgive myself for it.

00:54:19.200 So,

00:54:19.780 I just don't think

00:54:21.700 you can make amends.

00:54:22.600 What I,

00:54:22.880 what I try to do

00:54:23.820 is I try to make sure

00:54:25.680 that my decisions now

00:54:26.980 are decisions

00:54:28.180 that help people

00:54:29.080 and not hurt people

00:54:30.000 because I had a,

00:54:31.100 a lifetime

00:54:31.840 of just criminal acts

00:54:34.260 and,

00:54:34.820 you know,

00:54:35.720 I victimized everyone.

00:54:37.300 I lied to friends,

00:54:38.460 family members,

00:54:39.100 people I knew,

00:54:39.760 people I didn't know.

00:54:40.540 I hurt people I knew,

00:54:41.620 people I didn't know.

00:54:42.960 Um,

00:54:43.400 just a very,

00:54:45.980 very despicable

00:54:46.840 life until,

00:54:48.840 but it seems like

00:54:49.400 one of those things

00:54:50.120 where it might be

00:54:51.720 a little easier

00:54:52.440 to be a serial criminal

00:54:54.340 in this department

00:54:55.980 versus face-to-face

00:54:58.220 on the street

00:54:58.880 with a stick-up.

00:54:59.920 You know,

00:55:00.260 it's like,

00:55:01.220 eh,

00:55:01.600 you don't have to see

00:55:02.160 the faces of most

00:55:03.020 of the people.

00:55:04.080 It's like,

00:55:04.400 usually the credit card

00:55:05.380 companies will,

00:55:07.000 you know,

00:55:07.440 they're the ones

00:55:08.060 who will take the fall.

00:55:09.000 You know,

00:55:09.160 it's not always

00:55:09.700 the individual

00:55:10.540 who you're stealing from.

00:55:11.560 I can see how

00:55:13.400 the mindset

00:55:14.300 would allow you

00:55:15.300 around those

00:55:16.520 moralities of it.

00:55:17.900 You know,

00:55:18.140 like,

00:55:18.420 eh,

00:55:19.240 it's not as bad.

00:55:20.060 That's one of the,

00:55:21.000 that is one of the easy

00:55:21.920 things about,

00:55:22.760 uh,

00:55:24.200 cybercrime,

00:55:24.920 online crime.

00:55:25.620 You,

00:55:25.760 you don't have to see

00:55:27.100 the consequences

00:55:28.000 of your actions

00:55:28.840 and you can lie to yourself.

00:55:30.320 You can tell yourself,

00:55:31.420 you just said it a second

00:55:32.400 or you can say,

00:55:32.960 well,

00:55:33.040 the credit card companies

00:55:34.020 pay for that.

00:55:34.680 Well,

00:55:35.020 no,

00:55:35.240 not really.

00:55:36.040 So what happens is

00:55:37.180 with,

00:55:37.520 if you're committing

00:55:38.280 online credit card fraud

00:55:39.960 and I'm hitting,

00:55:40.840 say,

00:55:41.120 a camera store,

00:55:41.980 what happens is,

00:55:44.160 is yes,

00:55:44.700 I'm using a stolen

00:55:45.560 credit card to do that.

00:55:46.800 But because that transaction

00:55:48.120 is online,

00:55:48.880 it's a card,

00:55:49.540 not present transaction

00:55:50.720 because of that.

00:55:51.940 The credit card company

00:55:53.140 doesn't pay for that.

00:55:54.280 The camera merchant

00:55:55.460 pays for that.

00:55:56.380 They're the ones

00:55:57.040 paying out of pocket

00:55:57.860 for that.

00:55:58.240 And some of these stores

00:55:59.040 only operate

00:55:59.860 on a 2% margin.

00:56:01.500 So you,

00:56:02.280 they get hit

00:56:02.560 with a bunch

00:56:02.880 of credit card fraud

00:56:03.820 or return fraud

00:56:04.740 or something like that.

00:56:05.840 They're potentially

00:56:06.660 out of business.

00:56:07.660 So it's,

00:56:08.620 doing an online crime

00:56:10.900 as a criminal,

00:56:12.860 you don't have to see

00:56:13.960 the consequences

00:56:14.800 of that action.

00:56:15.700 And it's very easy

00:56:16.620 to compartmentalize.

00:56:18.080 You can say,

00:56:18.480 and I'm no different.

00:56:19.300 I said the exact same thing.

00:56:20.440 I said,

00:56:20.780 hey,

00:56:21.360 you know,

00:56:21.560 it's the banks

00:56:22.100 that are paying for it.

00:56:22.860 It's the credit card companies

00:56:23.780 that are paying for it.

00:56:24.620 That's not true.

00:56:25.780 I also said,

00:56:26.560 well,

00:56:26.760 you know,

00:56:27.040 I'm,

00:56:27.320 I'm just,

00:56:28.700 I'm online.

00:56:30.000 I'm a bad guy.

00:56:30.920 In the real world,

00:56:32.020 I'm a really good guy.

00:56:33.420 Well,

00:56:33.560 that's a lie as well.

00:56:35.300 So it's,

00:56:35.780 it's very easy

00:56:36.420 to justify those actions,

00:56:37.820 not see the,

00:56:38.880 the damage that you're doing

00:56:40.160 to individuals

00:56:40.940 and to,

00:56:41.980 you know,

00:56:42.800 walk away feeling

00:56:43.760 better than you would

00:56:45.200 if you had to do it

00:56:46.320 in front of somebody

00:56:47.380 to their face.

00:56:48.740 Well,

00:56:48.820 so back in the midst of it,

00:56:50.380 you form this group

00:56:51.520 where that would become

00:56:52.580 known as shadow crew.

00:56:54.120 And this is a group

00:56:55.560 where this is what

00:56:57.360 my,

00:56:58.040 my packet says shadow crew

00:56:59.660 was formed as a domain

00:57:00.600 for chats,

00:57:01.560 info,

00:57:01.900 and forums for hacking tricks,

00:57:03.460 fraud,

00:57:03.960 scams,

00:57:04.380 virus development,

00:57:04.940 and phishing.

00:57:05.680 And they say one of the

00:57:06.940 first things taught

00:57:07.540 at shadow crew

00:57:08.200 was that the first

00:57:09.140 crime committed

00:57:09.980 should be identity theft.

00:57:12.500 So can you,

00:57:13.820 I,

00:57:14.220 this may sound pretty basic,

00:57:15.260 but what is identity theft

00:57:16.720 exactly?

00:57:17.180 And why was it so,

00:57:18.000 so important at shadow crew?

00:57:20.240 Ah,

00:57:20.660 you see,

00:57:21.020 that's,

00:57:21.400 that's a good question.

00:57:22.800 What you,

00:57:23.680 to answer that,

00:57:24.260 you've got to answer

00:57:24.820 what is identity.

00:57:26.240 So back in the day,

00:57:27.680 you know,

00:57:28.220 before the internet,

00:57:29.500 the identity was

00:57:30.960 your social security number.

00:57:32.120 It was your date of birth.

00:57:33.020 It was that basic PII,

00:57:34.520 maybe some addresses

00:57:35.500 history was mixed in with that.

00:57:37.240 But today,

00:57:38.640 what is identity?

00:57:39.780 Today,

00:57:40.240 identity is,

00:57:41.380 it's also,

00:57:41.860 it's your PII.

00:57:42.800 It's your social,

00:57:43.460 it's your date of birth,

00:57:44.260 it's your address history.

00:57:45.480 It's who you associate with.

00:57:47.440 It's the sites that you visit,

00:57:50.200 what you buy,

00:57:51.540 what you like,

00:57:52.280 or don't like online.

00:57:53.880 It's,

00:57:54.360 it's your biometrics.

00:57:56.320 It's the way that you hold your phone.

00:57:58.260 It's the way that you type on your phone.

00:57:59.880 It's all these things rolled in together

00:58:01.760 is your identity.

00:58:03.240 So identity theft,

00:58:04.520 if you're doing it online,

00:58:06.380 can be the spoofing

00:58:08.200 or the stealing

00:58:09.140 of any of that data

00:58:11.380 or biometrics

00:58:12.820 or anything else that happens

00:58:14.180 in order to gain access

00:58:15.880 to a target website

00:58:18.260 or to commit some sort of fraud

00:58:19.640 or crime.

00:58:20.660 The reason I say it like that

00:58:22.360 is I don't always need

00:58:24.260 someone's social security number

00:58:27.160 in order to take over an account.

00:58:30.340 Sometimes it helps,

00:58:31.260 but I don't necessarily need that.

00:58:32.680 Sometimes I just need your password

00:58:34.040 and login

00:58:34.600 or sometimes I just need

00:58:36.220 your biometrics

00:58:37.020 from your cell phone.

00:58:39.140 Something like that

00:58:39.980 will allow me

00:58:41.580 to access an account,

00:58:43.700 pretend that I'm you

00:58:44.580 on that service

00:58:45.660 and then defraud

00:58:46.840 that service in your name.

00:58:48.240 So that's what we're talking about

00:58:49.600 with identity theft.

00:58:50.900 ShadowCree,

00:58:51.420 you're absolutely right.

00:58:52.060 of the company

00:58:52.580 that you might do.

00:58:53.360 Like,

00:58:53.540 how would you do it?

00:58:54.640 Because,

00:58:54.920 you know,

00:58:55.760 typically I still need

00:58:56.720 to enter my numbers

00:58:57.980 if I'm going to use my Amex.

00:58:59.600 You know,

00:58:59.700 like what website

00:59:00.760 would you try to exploit

00:59:02.320 using my biometrics data?

00:59:06.500 Let's say,

00:59:07.280 okay,

00:59:07.580 let's talk about,

00:59:08.640 let me try to pick one

00:59:11.000 that won't be really pissed off at me.

00:59:13.640 I talk about them.

00:59:15.500 Hypothetical,

00:59:16.060 hypothetical.

00:59:18.000 Hypothetical,

00:59:18.480 she says.

00:59:19.720 Okay,

00:59:19.980 so let's talk about

00:59:20.720 fintech companies.

00:59:21.640 We'll just talk about

00:59:22.400 fintech companies

00:59:23.100 as a whole.

00:59:24.580 What's that?

00:59:24.760 It can be PayPal,

00:59:25.920 it can be cash out,

00:59:27.660 anything else.

00:59:28.600 All right?

00:59:30.660 What I would do

00:59:31.600 is typically

00:59:32.380 you can go on the dark web

00:59:33.760 or one of these

00:59:34.220 criminal marketplaces,

00:59:35.660 you can buy

00:59:36.440 someone's credentials.

00:59:37.900 So their password

00:59:38.660 and login.

00:59:39.480 All right?

00:59:40.300 I go and I sign

00:59:41.480 into that account.

00:59:42.560 Now,

00:59:43.540 once I sign

00:59:44.280 into that account,

00:59:45.300 depending on

00:59:46.400 the security

00:59:47.100 of that website,

00:59:49.380 sometimes the only thing

00:59:50.680 I need

00:59:52.320 to be able

00:59:53.180 to do some sort

00:59:54.100 of action

00:59:54.680 is just

00:59:55.700 the credentials.

00:59:56.800 All right?

00:59:57.140 So your password

00:59:57.960 and login,

00:59:58.660 once I sign in,

01:00:00.160 if the website

01:00:00.880 has very low security,

01:00:02.480 I can go in there

01:00:03.300 and start doing

01:00:03.820 whatever I want to do.

01:00:04.840 Send money out,

01:00:05.860 maybe change

01:00:06.420 the billing address

01:00:07.300 to order replacement cards,

01:00:08.780 whatever I need

01:00:09.320 to do at that point.

01:00:10.160 All right?

01:00:10.840 If the security

01:00:11.820 is more advanced,

01:00:13.580 I may

01:00:14.620 need to spoof

01:00:16.180 the browser fingerprint

01:00:17.580 of your cell phone.

01:00:19.480 So what am I

01:00:20.000 talking about there?

01:00:20.940 So when you

01:00:21.600 visit a website,

01:00:22.520 that website

01:00:23.720 typically captures

01:00:24.680 about 42

01:00:25.540 different unique

01:00:26.560 characteristics

01:00:27.300 of your cell phone.

01:00:28.560 It captures

01:00:29.000 the cell phone,

01:00:29.940 the IMEI,

01:00:31.180 it captures

01:00:31.700 the browser type,

01:00:33.460 the Java type,

01:00:34.620 the language,

01:00:35.580 the date,

01:00:36.140 the time,

01:00:36.980 all these

01:00:37.540 different characteristics.

01:00:39.300 It's enough,

01:00:40.560 those 42 unique

01:00:41.600 things can

01:00:42.240 potentially identify

01:00:43.660 one specific

01:00:45.460 person out of

01:00:46.280 millions of different

01:00:47.200 users on that

01:00:48.200 one website.

01:00:49.040 So what I can do

01:00:50.980 is I can use

01:00:51.540 your password login,

01:00:52.620 your credentials,

01:00:53.500 and spoof

01:00:54.560 the browser fingerprint

01:00:55.900 and sometimes

01:00:56.980 that's enough

01:00:58.160 to trick that

01:00:59.220 website

01:00:59.700 into thinking

01:01:00.860 that I'm you

01:01:01.780 and at that point

01:01:02.800 I can start

01:01:03.340 changing information,

01:01:05.040 sending money out,

01:01:06.120 whatever I need to

01:01:06.840 at that point in time.

01:01:08.140 All right?

01:01:08.980 Sometimes it goes

01:01:09.880 a little bit further

01:01:10.640 than that.

01:01:11.920 Sometimes I'll

01:01:12.840 need the,

01:01:14.520 if they've got

01:01:15.000 even better security,

01:01:15.880 sometimes I'll need

01:01:16.540 the password and login,

01:01:17.600 maybe the browser fingerprint

01:01:19.280 and then I'll also

01:01:20.600 need an IP

01:01:22.080 that matches

01:01:23.840 the geographic

01:01:24.460 or the zip code

01:01:25.700 area that you

01:01:26.920 are actually in.

01:01:29.100 So what I'll need

01:01:29.860 to do at that point

01:01:30.600 is buy a SOX 5 proxy.

01:01:32.360 So what happens

01:01:32.980 is,

01:01:33.300 is you take

01:01:34.280 an attacker,

01:01:34.900 a criminal,

01:01:36.060 he may be located

01:01:37.280 in Ghana,

01:01:38.020 Nigeria,

01:01:39.040 wherever.

01:01:39.800 By using a SOX 5 proxy,

01:01:41.720 he can make it appear

01:01:42.720 that he's in Florida,

01:01:44.280 Colorado,

01:01:45.500 California,

01:01:46.200 wherever he needs

01:01:46.820 to make it appear

01:01:47.420 and those things

01:01:48.000 cost about 30 cents

01:01:49.480 to a dollar.

01:01:50.760 All right?

01:01:51.260 So that's another tool

01:01:52.680 that I would use

01:01:53.680 to gain access

01:01:55.060 to your account.

01:01:56.860 So it,

01:01:57.460 and it just keeps

01:01:58.140 going from there.

01:01:58.960 Depending on the security

01:01:59.980 of the site

01:02:00.740 is the different types

01:02:02.120 of tools

01:02:02.660 or information

01:02:03.380 that I would need

01:02:04.420 to get information,

01:02:05.840 access,

01:02:06.340 data,

01:02:06.560 or cash

01:02:07.260 from that website

01:02:08.760 that I'm trying

01:02:09.260 to victimize.

01:02:10.220 And all that stuff

01:02:10.840 is out there.

01:02:11.400 Like you,

01:02:12.680 would you,

01:02:13.140 would you say like,

01:02:13.920 okay,

01:02:14.120 I'm going to do

01:02:14.780 Brad Pitt's information

01:02:16.000 today.

01:02:16.360 You know what I mean?

01:02:16.700 You know,

01:02:16.840 like how,

01:02:17.540 whose identity

01:02:18.420 would you know

01:02:19.180 to try to go after?

01:02:20.760 You know,

01:02:20.940 like how do you

01:02:21.320 find the targets?

01:02:23.520 Well,

01:02:23.780 it's interesting

01:02:24.540 that you would say

01:02:25.120 that we,

01:02:25.540 a lot of people,

01:02:26.480 and I'm asked this

01:02:27.260 at conferences

01:02:28.080 quite often,

01:02:29.160 you know,

01:02:29.820 what can we do

01:02:30.640 to make sure

01:02:31.340 that our information

01:02:32.420 isn't compromised?

01:02:33.700 Well,

01:02:33.860 there's nothing

01:02:34.400 you can do for that

01:02:35.440 because your information

01:02:36.500 has been compromised

01:02:37.520 for years.

01:02:38.220 Just last year,

01:02:39.360 we had over 2,500

01:02:40.820 just reported breaches.

01:02:42.400 Of those 2,500

01:02:43.380 just reported breaches,

01:02:45.420 over 57 billion

01:02:47.400 records compromised

01:02:48.900 just last year.

01:02:50.860 So everyone's information

01:02:52.220 is available.

01:02:53.320 The reason you may not

01:02:54.560 have been victimized yet

01:02:55.740 is think of it

01:02:56.420 as the worst lottery

01:02:57.540 on the planet.

01:02:58.640 There's just simply

01:02:59.480 not enough criminals

01:03:00.320 to get to you yet,

01:03:01.720 but they're coming.

01:03:03.000 It's not a question

01:03:03.760 of if,

01:03:04.520 it's a question

01:03:05.080 of when.

01:03:06.000 And usually,

01:03:07.100 it's a question of,

01:03:09.020 well,

01:03:09.100 it's not really

01:03:09.720 your first time,

01:03:10.820 is it?

01:03:12.120 So if you can accept that,

01:03:14.240 then you can ask

01:03:14.980 the next question.

01:03:16.240 What can we do

01:03:17.380 that if a criminal

01:03:18.620 gets our information,

01:03:20.620 he or she can't use it?

01:03:22.480 And that's the more

01:03:23.200 appropriate question

01:03:24.080 to ask.

01:03:24.640 But we have to really

01:03:25.420 get to understand

01:03:26.360 that all of our information

01:03:28.160 is out there.

01:03:30.720 Yeah.

01:03:31.340 I like,

01:03:32.120 I know you like

01:03:32.680 two-factor identification

01:03:34.100 or authentication.

01:03:35.000 I like that, too.

01:03:36.800 So you get,

01:03:37.660 if somebody tries

01:03:38.220 to get into your email

01:03:39.600 or change the password,

01:03:41.520 you get the text

01:03:42.600 saying,

01:03:42.920 is it really you?

01:03:43.740 And only if you confirm

01:03:44.600 by your phone

01:03:45.340 will they allow it.

01:03:46.880 I mean,

01:03:47.040 that makes me feel

01:03:47.580 a little better.

01:03:48.200 But wait,

01:03:48.600 I want to ask you

01:03:49.160 about this

01:03:49.420 because I read

01:03:50.500 that you've said

01:03:51.880 children are the

01:03:53.600 number one target

01:03:54.720 of identity theft.

01:03:56.500 So how does that work?

01:03:58.300 You know,

01:03:58.440 I'll tell you now,

01:03:58.980 my kids are young

01:03:59.780 and I'd like to think

01:04:02.420 they have no online profile.

01:04:03.980 I work hard

01:04:04.440 to make sure

01:04:04.900 they don't,

01:04:06.120 but they do

01:04:06.840 go on games,

01:04:08.560 you know,

01:04:08.960 and the games say,

01:04:10.780 what's your date of birth?

01:04:12.200 What's your name?

01:04:13.620 You know,

01:04:13.760 they don't know

01:04:14.360 their social security number

01:04:15.180 nor would they ever

01:04:16.000 type that in for any,

01:04:16.720 but you know what I mean?

01:04:17.200 Like,

01:04:17.360 how does one's child

01:04:18.780 get swept up into this?

01:04:21.120 So the actual statistic

01:04:22.940 is that 25%,

01:04:24.440 one in four children

01:04:25.420 will be victims

01:04:26.440 of identity theft.

01:04:27.380 Children are the number

01:04:28.320 one victims of ID theft

01:04:29.740 and that's because

01:04:30.340 of three things.

01:04:31.080 It's because of this thing

01:04:31.980 called synthetic fraud.

01:04:33.120 It's because of tax fraud

01:04:34.520 and it's also because

01:04:35.280 of medical fraud.

01:04:36.440 The way those breaches,

01:04:37.700 the way that information

01:04:38.440 gets out there,

01:04:39.220 you've got insiders

01:04:39.980 that do that.

01:04:40.760 You've got man

01:04:41.380 in the middle of tax

01:04:42.100 that do that.

01:04:42.580 You've got breaches

01:04:43.120 for hospitals

01:04:43.860 that provide that type

01:04:45.000 of information,

01:04:45.660 things like that.

01:04:46.660 Just four years ago,

01:04:48.320 four years ago,

01:04:49.760 a child's identity.

01:04:51.380 So when I say

01:04:53.080 a child's identity,

01:04:53.800 that would be

01:04:54.240 the child's name,

01:04:55.440 social,

01:04:56.260 date of birth,

01:04:57.040 mother's maiden name,

01:04:58.240 place of birth.

01:04:58.820 That information

01:05:01.660 was selling

01:05:02.400 for $2.08

01:05:03.640 on the dark web.

01:05:05.460 All right?

01:05:05.800 Today,

01:05:06.620 that same information

01:05:08.260 is selling

01:05:09.020 for $25

01:05:09.860 because there's

01:05:11.960 such demand

01:05:13.020 for children's information

01:05:14.640 because of this thing

01:05:15.720 called synthetic fraud.

01:05:17.340 The way that you

01:05:18.240 protect against that,

01:05:20.300 credit freezes

01:05:21.140 became free

01:05:22.080 September 18th

01:05:23.100 of 2018.

01:05:24.960 Do that.

01:05:26.140 Everyone in the house

01:05:26.900 needs to have

01:05:27.320 a credit freeze in place,

01:05:28.220 including your children.

01:05:30.280 So what happens is

01:05:31.440 you have to contact

01:05:32.340 all three credit bureaus.

01:05:34.060 You tell them,

01:05:34.560 hey, I want to place

01:05:35.560 a freeze on my credit.

01:05:38.080 And they're going

01:05:38.620 to try to talk you

01:05:39.420 into paying for

01:05:40.220 some sort of

01:05:40.740 monitoring service

01:05:41.560 or something like that.

01:05:42.340 You're going to basically

01:05:42.880 tell them to go to hell.

01:05:44.160 No, I want a credit

01:05:44.980 freeze in place

01:05:45.700 because it's free.

01:05:47.000 What that means is

01:05:47.980 is that no one

01:05:48.860 can pull your credit report

01:05:51.140 without your specific permission.

01:05:53.280 So if you go over

01:05:54.060 to finance a new car

01:05:55.760 or whatever,

01:05:56.660 you'll be there

01:05:57.800 financing the car,

01:05:58.700 you'll say,

01:05:59.160 OK, who's pulling my credit?

01:06:00.340 They'll say Ally Bank.

01:06:01.600 You'll notify the credit bureau,

01:06:03.080 hey, Ally Bank

01:06:03.880 is going to request

01:06:04.560 my credit report.

01:06:05.840 The credit bureau

01:06:06.400 will lift the freeze

01:06:07.600 just for Ally Bank

01:06:08.940 to pull that report.

01:06:10.100 As soon as that report

01:06:11.000 is pulled,

01:06:11.800 the freeze goes back

01:06:12.720 into place.

01:06:13.320 No one else can pull

01:06:14.060 the credit report.

01:06:14.980 It stops all new

01:06:16.400 account fraud

01:06:17.860 dead in its tracks.

01:06:19.540 You cannot open

01:06:20.400 a new account

01:06:20.940 with a credit freeze

01:06:21.620 in place.

01:06:22.740 Works great for children.

01:06:24.740 All right.

01:06:24.920 If you don't have that,

01:06:25.920 and I'll tell you this now,

01:06:27.120 Megan,

01:06:27.320 if you don't have that

01:06:28.080 in place for your kids,

01:06:29.020 you need to

01:06:29.700 because there's a one

01:06:30.600 in four chance

01:06:31.460 that your kids

01:06:32.400 have already been victimized.

01:06:34.020 So put a credit freeze

01:06:34.840 in place.

01:06:35.320 And anybody that listens

01:06:36.180 to this today,

01:06:36.880 if you don't do anything else,

01:06:38.960 put a credit freeze

01:06:39.760 in place

01:06:40.280 when you get off this show.

01:06:42.380 So understand

01:06:43.340 it stops

01:06:43.840 all new account fraud.

01:06:45.420 Great for kids.

01:06:46.600 For adults,

01:06:47.480 we have existing accounts.

01:06:49.260 We've got credit cards,

01:06:50.120 we've got bank accounts,

01:06:50.960 things like that.

01:06:51.620 It does not stop fraud

01:06:53.860 on those accounts.

01:06:55.700 So what you have to do

01:06:57.000 is you have to put,

01:06:58.060 you have to monitor

01:06:58.780 existing accounts.

01:06:59.880 So that's credit reports,

01:07:01.680 tax statements,

01:07:02.640 bank accounts,

01:07:03.460 email accounts,

01:07:04.620 retail merchant accounts,

01:07:05.780 things like that.

01:07:07.000 Monitor those accounts,

01:07:08.540 place alerts

01:07:09.320 on those accounts

01:07:10.400 where you can.

01:07:11.700 The lowest dollar amount

01:07:13.400 alert that you can.

01:07:14.220 For example,

01:07:15.200 Discover Card

01:07:15.820 has a $0 alert,

01:07:17.360 meaning that if

01:07:17.900 a criminal like I

01:07:19.140 goes on the dark web,

01:07:20.020 buys your Discover Card

01:07:20.920 for $12,

01:07:21.860 which is what

01:07:22.240 this sells for,

01:07:23.540 buys it for $12,

01:07:24.640 just pings the card

01:07:25.600 to see if it's alive,

01:07:27.060 you get an SMS message

01:07:28.600 saying,

01:07:29.000 hey,

01:07:29.160 some idiot's

01:07:29.860 trying to steal your card

01:07:31.040 and you can have it

01:07:31.800 locked down at that point.

01:07:33.460 So monitor accounts,

01:07:34.740 place alerts,

01:07:35.520 and then finally

01:07:36.260 the big thing,

01:07:37.420 because there's really

01:07:38.000 just three things

01:07:39.180 that you,

01:07:39.680 well,

01:07:39.860 there's more than three,

01:07:40.600 but the three big ones.

01:07:41.860 The other big thing

01:07:42.840 is that 80%

01:07:44.800 of every single person

01:07:46.620 on the planet

01:07:47.280 uses the same

01:07:48.900 or similar

01:07:49.840 passwords

01:07:50.960 and logins

01:07:51.700 across multiple

01:07:52.540 websites.

01:07:53.720 That's a problem.

01:07:54.940 And yeah,

01:07:55.760 so what can happen

01:07:56.740 is it's this thing

01:07:57.440 called credential stuffing.

01:07:58.800 So I can send out

01:07:59.980 a phishing email

01:08:00.680 that looks like it

01:08:01.320 comes from your

01:08:02.080 financial institution.

01:08:04.120 Your level of awareness

01:08:05.340 is high enough

01:08:06.220 that you'll look at it

01:08:07.340 and you'll typically say,

01:08:08.400 ha,

01:08:09.320 obviously a phishing email.

01:08:10.700 I'm not going to fall

01:08:11.200 for that crap.

01:08:12.000 But what happens

01:08:14.320 if I send out

01:08:14.920 a phishing email

01:08:15.600 that looks like

01:08:16.080 it comes from Hulu?

01:08:17.840 Level of awareness

01:08:18.820 not as high.

01:08:19.920 You're probably going

01:08:20.540 to look at it

01:08:21.020 and say,

01:08:21.340 Hulu.

01:08:22.520 Does anyone even

01:08:23.360 watch Hulu?

01:08:24.260 I mean,

01:08:24.520 the only thing

01:08:24.880 they've got

01:08:25.220 is The Handmaid

01:08:25.740 still.

01:08:26.420 That second season

01:08:27.140 sucked.

01:08:28.740 And it did.

01:08:29.680 You know it did.

01:08:30.720 First season

01:08:31.260 was outstanding.

01:08:32.600 Second season,

01:08:33.780 oh my God.

01:08:35.500 But because

01:08:36.460 your level of awareness

01:08:37.460 is not as high,

01:08:39.660 you're going to

01:08:40.780 go ahead

01:08:41.100 and put those

01:08:41.480 credentials in.

01:08:42.340 For an attacker,

01:08:43.100 for a criminal,

01:08:44.060 it's literally

01:08:44.940 an automated program.

01:08:46.520 I plug those

01:08:47.260 credentials into

01:08:47.860 the computer.

01:08:48.400 I go to sleep.

01:08:49.280 The program

01:08:49.840 tries to log into

01:08:50.840 tens of thousands

01:08:51.820 of different websites

01:08:52.940 while I sleep.

01:08:54.500 I wake up the next morning

01:08:55.640 and I've got

01:08:56.020 your tax statements,

01:08:56.980 your credit cards,

01:08:57.780 your bank account,

01:08:58.380 your Hulu account,

01:08:59.480 and I can do

01:09:00.380 whatever I want to

01:09:01.260 at that point.

01:09:02.720 All right?

01:09:03.600 The answer

01:09:04.460 to that

01:09:05.280 right now

01:09:06.240 is a password manager.

01:09:08.080 I don't care

01:09:08.560 which one you use.

01:09:09.340 Just use one of them.

01:09:10.160 As a matter of fact,

01:09:10.780 Chrome's got one built in.

01:09:12.080 Apple's got one built in.

01:09:13.360 They don't charge

01:09:13.980 anything for it.

01:09:14.920 Use that,

01:09:15.760 but use a password manager.

01:09:17.500 You can trust that.

01:09:18.380 That's not hackable.

01:09:19.200 That's the fear of those.

01:09:20.080 Like,

01:09:20.240 well,

01:09:20.320 the bad guy's

01:09:20.820 going to get in there.

01:09:21.400 Then he's instantly

01:09:21.960 going to have everything.

01:09:23.460 There you go.

01:09:24.280 But I like

01:09:24.940 a password manager.

01:09:26.080 A few of them

01:09:27.460 have been hacked

01:09:28.180 or breached.

01:09:29.220 But the thing is,

01:09:29.940 is that while

01:09:30.720 LastPass has been breached,

01:09:33.040 while Dashlane

01:09:33.720 has been breached,

01:09:34.460 the program

01:09:36.480 has been breached,

01:09:37.300 but the passwords

01:09:38.280 themselves have not been

01:09:40.220 because those are encrypted

01:09:41.620 with 256-bit encryption.

01:09:43.940 So,

01:09:44.500 the passwords

01:09:44.900 have never been compromised,

01:09:46.920 even though

01:09:47.880 a password manager

01:09:48.840 itself sometimes has.

01:09:50.280 All right.

01:09:51.000 I feel better.

01:09:52.060 All right.

01:09:52.340 So,

01:09:52.640 you were,

01:09:53.080 this is so fascinating,

01:09:54.380 by the way.

01:09:54.660 I could not be

01:09:55.300 more interested

01:09:55.940 than I am right now

01:09:56.680 in what you're saying.

01:09:57.500 So,

01:09:58.360 you used

01:09:59.600 these skills

01:10:01.080 that you're telling us about

01:10:02.520 on the bad side.

01:10:04.400 And this is while

01:10:05.180 you're doing

01:10:05.800 Shadow

01:10:07.060 Crew.

01:10:10.160 Shadow Crew.

01:10:10.780 So,

01:10:10.940 that lasted for about

01:10:11.780 two years

01:10:12.480 and then

01:10:13.240 it got busted

01:10:14.760 by the feds.

01:10:15.480 I want to jump forward a bit

01:10:16.400 because I know

01:10:16.700 there's a lot in there.

01:10:17.660 But it got busted

01:10:18.240 by the feds.

01:10:19.620 And

01:10:19.980 you were about

01:10:20.700 to get married.

01:10:22.020 It was like

01:10:22.800 February of 2005,

01:10:24.060 I think it was.

01:10:24.660 These guys got busted

01:10:25.420 in August of 2004.

01:10:27.540 But you kind of

01:10:28.300 hung up your hat

01:10:29.340 in April of 2004

01:10:31.380 as I understand it.

01:10:32.180 And you were about

01:10:32.600 to get married

01:10:33.280 in February of 2005.

01:10:35.100 And it's like,

01:10:35.680 okay,

01:10:36.180 things are,

01:10:36.740 and then boom,

01:10:37.660 you're arrested too.

01:10:39.160 They had a record.

01:10:40.320 There was a guy

01:10:41.060 who had been

01:10:41.800 with Shadow Crew

01:10:42.500 who had turned

01:10:43.180 and was helping

01:10:44.040 the Secret Service.

01:10:45.120 And you get arrested.

01:10:46.620 But,

01:10:46.960 and at that moment

01:10:47.520 you must be thinking,

01:10:48.220 oh,

01:10:48.320 this sucks.

01:10:48.740 This is terrible.

01:10:49.260 No marriage

01:10:49.700 and no freedom.

01:10:51.240 But,

01:10:51.860 the weirdest

01:10:52.680 series of events

01:10:54.140 would happen to you

01:10:54.980 over the next

01:10:55.580 couple of years.

01:10:57.240 I mean,

01:10:57.440 I've never heard

01:10:57.960 such as like,

01:10:59.040 in prison,

01:10:59.920 out of prison,

01:11:00.440 in prison,

01:11:00.820 out of prison,

01:11:01.200 with the Secret Service,

01:11:01.840 not with the Secret Service,

01:11:02.700 escapes from prison,

01:11:03.340 like,

01:11:04.080 the weirdest.

01:11:05.300 So,

01:11:05.980 the first one was,

01:11:07.260 you get an offer

01:11:09.240 to work with the Secret Service

01:11:10.200 and you do it

01:11:11.020 for a short time

01:11:11.740 and try to walk me

01:11:13.040 through what happened

01:11:13.660 after the first big arrest.

01:11:15.880 That is,

01:11:16.980 yeah,

01:11:17.420 you're right.

01:11:17.760 It's weird.

01:11:18.380 So,

01:11:18.660 what happens is,

01:11:19.380 is I'm picked up

01:11:20.500 February 8th of 2005,

01:11:22.560 three weeks before

01:11:23.700 I was supposed

01:11:24.160 to get married.

01:11:25.560 I'm held in the county jail

01:11:26.900 in Charleston,

01:11:27.540 South Carolina

01:11:28.140 for about a week.

01:11:29.320 After a week,

01:11:30.060 the Secret Service

01:11:31.520 flies in from New Jersey

01:11:33.080 because that's where

01:11:33.720 all the cybercrime investigations

01:11:35.120 at that point in time

01:11:36.080 were coming out of.

01:11:37.140 So,

01:11:37.440 they fly out of New Jersey

01:11:38.720 down to Charleston,

01:11:39.740 South Carolina,

01:11:40.340 pulled me out of a cell.

01:11:41.480 They look at me and said,

01:11:42.480 we've got your laptop.

01:11:43.480 And I'm like,

01:11:43.860 yeah.

01:11:44.260 They're like,

01:11:44.860 got anything on it?

01:11:45.640 I'm like,

01:11:45.980 yeah.

01:11:46.780 Well,

01:11:46.960 you're going to be charged for it.

01:11:47.980 I'm like,

01:11:48.260 I figured.

01:11:49.140 And then they looked at me

01:11:50.220 and they said,

01:11:51.140 is there anything

01:11:51.720 you can do for us?

01:11:52.840 And my exact words

01:11:54.140 were,

01:11:54.900 you let me get back

01:11:55.780 with Elizabeth,

01:11:56.780 my fiancee at the time,

01:11:58.160 and I'll do whatever

01:11:59.260 you want me to do.

01:12:00.540 So,

01:12:00.840 they looked at me and said,

01:12:01.540 we're going to get you out.

01:12:02.480 I'm like,

01:12:02.720 okay.

01:12:03.700 They let me sit there

01:12:04.620 for 90 days

01:12:05.880 to get a taste

01:12:06.640 of what jail's supposed to be.

01:12:08.740 They get me out

01:12:09.540 after 90 days.

01:12:10.620 I go to work

01:12:11.360 for the Secret Service.

01:12:13.320 And my job

01:12:14.340 was as a paid informant

01:12:15.880 slash consultant.

01:12:16.900 They moved me

01:12:17.500 from Charleston

01:12:18.160 up to Columbia,

01:12:19.060 South Carolina.

01:12:20.220 I would go into

01:12:20.880 the Secret Service offices

01:12:21.900 for four to six hours a day.

01:12:23.920 They had me

01:12:24.620 in a big war room

01:12:25.980 where I was hooked up

01:12:26.980 to a laptop

01:12:27.580 outside line.

01:12:28.680 The laptop was hooked up

01:12:29.500 to a 50-inch plasma monitor

01:12:31.100 on the wall,

01:12:31.780 so they monitored it

01:12:32.640 at all times.

01:12:33.780 In the room at all times

01:12:34.840 were two Secret Service agents

01:12:36.220 and one South Carolina

01:12:37.720 law enforcement agent.

01:12:39.020 They had their own

01:12:39.860 desktop computer

01:12:40.840 right next to mine

01:12:41.940 with an outside line

01:12:43.320 as well.

01:12:43.940 And on my machine,

01:12:45.260 they were capturing everything.

01:12:46.560 They had Camtasia

01:12:47.340 that captured screenshots

01:12:48.920 of everything

01:12:49.800 that was going on

01:12:50.600 and they had Spectre Pro

01:12:52.160 that was a key logger

01:12:53.220 as well.

01:12:53.740 So all the data

01:12:54.560 was recorded

01:12:55.900 every single night

01:12:56.720 went on a DVD

01:12:57.480 on a spindle.

01:12:58.800 So for the first two weeks,

01:13:00.620 they were extremely diligent.

01:13:02.720 They were, you know,

01:13:03.660 asking questions,

01:13:04.420 everything else.

01:13:05.060 But my job

01:13:06.120 really consisted

01:13:07.000 of surfing the web

01:13:08.780 as fast as I possibly could,

01:13:11.280 targeting individuals,

01:13:12.440 and doing stuff like that.

01:13:13.900 So after two weeks,

01:13:15.060 it got really boring.

01:13:17.660 The agents,

01:13:19.220 because they were bored,

01:13:20.640 I want to make clear

01:13:21.400 that they were good guys,

01:13:23.180 but they had never really dealt

01:13:26.500 with any cyber criminals before.

01:13:29.300 And they kind of classed us

01:13:30.860 with the other types

01:13:32.360 of criminals

01:13:32.840 that they had been working with.

01:13:35.280 And that's really not the case.

01:13:36.880 We are a,

01:13:38.060 we tend to not do well

01:13:42.040 with authority,

01:13:42.800 to say the least.

01:13:45.120 So after two weeks,

01:13:46.880 they got bored.

01:13:49.040 They started to watch porn

01:13:50.620 on their machines.

01:13:51.420 So I'm sitting there

01:13:51.920 watching them like,

01:13:52.980 huh, nobody's watching me.

01:13:55.520 So I start to break the law

01:13:57.040 from inside

01:13:57.920 of the Secret Service offices

01:13:59.300 for the next 10 months.

01:14:01.080 The way they find out about it

01:14:02.780 is this was March of 2006,

01:14:06.880 at this point in time.

01:14:08.060 March of 2006,

01:14:09.220 there was a,

01:14:09.760 there was going to be

01:14:10.360 a nationwide arrest

01:14:11.740 roundup going on

01:14:13.260 called Operation Rolling Stone.

01:14:15.880 One of the people

01:14:16.680 that I was an associate with

01:14:18.340 on Shadow Crew,

01:14:19.560 I'd actually taught him

01:14:20.320 how to do tax return

01:14:21.360 identity theft.

01:14:22.720 He was slated to be arrested

01:14:24.340 in Los Angeles.

01:14:25.560 So they go to arrest him.

01:14:27.220 They arrest the guy.

01:14:28.560 He's in an apartment.

01:14:29.820 The apartment manager

01:14:30.640 comes out and says,

01:14:31.560 hey, I don't know

01:14:32.120 what went on,

01:14:32.820 but Sean last night,

01:14:34.680 he had a U-Haul here

01:14:35.820 and packed out

01:14:36.620 all kinds of stuff.

01:14:37.780 Well, it turns out

01:14:38.400 that stuff he packed out

01:14:39.500 was all of the evidence

01:14:40.740 the Secret Service

01:14:41.700 might need to charge him with.

01:14:44.000 So they come back to me

01:14:45.080 and they said,

01:14:45.500 hey, we need you

01:14:46.500 to take a polygraph.

01:14:47.500 And my answer was no.

01:14:49.400 So then they were like,

01:14:50.260 well, you can take it

01:14:50.880 or you can go back to jail.

01:14:51.800 And I was like,

01:14:52.340 okay, I'll take it.

01:14:53.580 So they gave me the polygraph,

01:14:56.020 which I promptly failed.

01:14:57.700 They revoked the bond.

01:14:59.560 At that point in time,

01:15:00.820 I was only under state charges.

01:15:03.240 I hadn't been federally indicted.

01:15:05.200 So they revoked the bond.

01:15:08.400 A week after the bond

01:15:09.880 had been revoked,

01:15:10.660 they searched my apartment.

01:15:11.700 They found prepaid debit cards.

01:15:13.000 They found cash,

01:15:13.800 found a laptop,

01:15:14.700 cell phones,

01:15:15.200 everything else.

01:15:17.060 They come in after a week

01:15:18.400 of be sitting in the county jail,

01:15:20.300 pull me out of the cell,

01:15:21.280 the second in charge

01:15:21.940 in South Carolina.

01:15:23.420 He looks at me.

01:15:24.220 He's like,

01:15:24.680 here's the way

01:15:25.280 it's going to work, Brett.

01:15:26.820 You're going to tell me

01:15:27.620 everything you've done

01:15:28.320 the past six years

01:15:29.420 or I'm going to make it

01:15:30.320 my mission in life

01:15:31.260 to screw over you

01:15:32.300 and your family,

01:15:33.320 not just right now

01:15:34.740 in this case,

01:15:35.240 but once you get out of prison,

01:15:36.600 I'll hound you

01:15:37.380 the rest of your life.

01:15:38.500 Then he slides

01:15:39.760 a Miranda waiver over at me

01:15:41.000 and he looks at me.

01:15:41.560 He's like,

01:15:41.900 now you want to talk to me?

01:15:43.400 And my answer was,

01:15:44.920 no, I don't.

01:15:45.740 I want a lawyer.

01:15:46.660 So he gets up red faced,

01:15:48.660 says some,

01:15:49.280 you know,

01:15:49.900 some derogatory words

01:15:51.160 as he walks out.

01:15:52.480 A week later,

01:15:54.560 the judge reinstates my bond

01:15:56.940 and had said

01:15:58.480 that they revoked it improperly.

01:16:00.000 So I walked out of the jail.

01:16:02.400 Nobody calls

01:16:03.040 the Secret Service,

01:16:04.240 tells them I walked out

01:16:05.200 and I take off

01:16:05.980 on a cross-country crime spree.

01:16:08.920 Still,

01:16:09.840 I stole $600,000

01:16:11.960 in the space of four months.

01:16:13.700 I was in Las Vegas, Nevada

01:16:15.060 the night before.

01:16:16.360 I had stolen $160,000

01:16:18.040 out of ATMs,

01:16:19.160 woke up the next morning,

01:16:20.740 signed on to cartersmarket.com,

01:16:22.780 which was ran by

01:16:23.420 another Shadow Crew associate,

01:16:25.600 signed on to Carter's Market.

01:16:27.480 There's my name,

01:16:28.480 U.S.

01:16:29.440 most wanted beside of it.

01:16:32.500 And that's,

01:16:33.340 that's,

01:16:34.140 I say it's an aha moment.

01:16:35.720 It's more of an oh shit moment.

01:16:37.240 Oh, yeah.

01:16:38.700 Yeah.

01:16:39.320 So I sat there

01:16:40.120 and looked at it.

01:16:40.680 That was the first time

01:16:41.420 that my name

01:16:42.240 and my picture

01:16:42.940 had ever been published online.

01:16:45.260 So I sat there

01:16:46.120 and looked at it

01:16:46.820 and it was talking about

01:16:48.300 how I was,

01:16:49.040 how I had screwed over

01:16:49.820 the Secret Service

01:16:50.580 and how I had screwed over

01:16:52.660 all my criminal associates.

01:16:54.440 So they had cut time,

01:16:55.640 it was done

01:16:56.820 so that no one

01:16:57.620 would help me.

01:16:58.860 So I was in Las Vegas

01:17:00.020 and I sat there

01:17:00.600 for a few minutes

01:17:01.220 and finally I sat out loud.

01:17:02.680 I was like,

01:17:03.060 well, Brett,

01:17:03.540 you've made the United States

01:17:04.600 most wanted list.

01:17:05.400 What do you do now?

01:17:06.380 And then I said,

01:17:07.320 I'm going to Disney World,

01:17:08.680 which is what I did.

01:17:10.660 So I go to Disney World,

01:17:13.660 buy my park passes

01:17:15.340 for Universal,

01:17:16.540 Disney.

01:17:17.680 I'm going there every day

01:17:18.620 and the idea was,

01:17:19.920 well,

01:17:20.080 I'll just lay low,

01:17:21.420 enjoy Mickey Mouse

01:17:22.540 for about a year

01:17:23.720 and then I'll bug out

01:17:25.600 to South America.

01:17:27.200 I was wanting to go

01:17:27.700 to Florianopolis.

01:17:29.200 So I lasted about six weeks,

01:17:32.760 Secret Service,

01:17:33.460 September 16th of 06.

01:17:35.840 I rented this timeshare,

01:17:38.820 I paid for it

01:17:39.560 for nine months straight cash

01:17:41.620 and they were still

01:17:43.440 building the timeshare

01:17:44.220 and I was used to

01:17:44.800 all the builders

01:17:45.300 coming by and knocking,

01:17:46.400 asking if everything

01:17:47.020 was all right.

01:17:47.980 So it was Saturday,

01:17:48.880 September 16th of 06,

01:17:51.320 about 1030 in the morning,

01:17:52.420 I hear this knock

01:17:53.400 on the door.

01:17:53.980 So I get out of bed,

01:17:55.240 walk up,

01:17:55.860 walk up to the door,

01:17:56.600 look out at the peephole

01:17:57.480 and nobody's there

01:17:58.300 and I'm like,

01:17:58.700 huh?

01:17:59.280 So then I opened the door,

01:18:00.920 stepped out into the hallway

01:18:02.100 and walking down the hall

01:18:03.520 are two South Carolina

01:18:05.080 Secret Service guys

01:18:06.200 and an Orange County sheriff.

01:18:07.760 They turn around,

01:18:08.720 they're like,

01:18:09.040 hey, Brett.

01:18:09.480 I'm like,

01:18:09.780 hey, guys.

01:18:10.380 I'm like,

01:18:10.620 how you doing?

01:18:11.240 I'm like,

01:18:11.480 I'm doing fine.

01:18:12.300 Would you guys

01:18:12.780 like to come in?

01:18:13.740 And they're like,

01:18:14.400 well,

01:18:14.540 let's put you in cuffs first.

01:18:15.960 And I'm like,

01:18:16.360 probably a good idea.

01:18:18.160 So they put me in cuffs,

01:18:20.280 walk me in,

01:18:20.860 but then sit me down

01:18:21.840 on the sofa

01:18:22.320 and they're like,

01:18:22.800 have you got anything

01:18:23.700 in the apartment?

01:18:24.740 And I'm like,

01:18:25.320 well,

01:18:25.480 I've got $150,000 cash

01:18:27.560 in the bedroom.

01:18:28.360 So they start walking

01:18:29.320 toward the bedroom.

01:18:30.140 Then I go,

01:18:30.800 plus an AK-47

01:18:31.800 and they stop dead

01:18:33.080 in their tracks

01:18:33.640 and they're like,

01:18:34.000 are you serious?

01:18:34.760 And I'm like,

01:18:35.120 no,

01:18:35.420 I'm just kidding you.

01:18:37.700 My fingers are my weapons.

01:18:40.080 Yeah.

01:18:40.660 Yeah.

01:18:41.040 So they put me in accounting.

01:18:42.440 So let me back up.

01:18:43.860 This is so super fascinating.

01:18:45.720 They're not going to have

01:18:46.420 enough time on this show

01:18:47.240 to get to everything

01:18:47.760 I want to get to.

01:18:48.260 I'm so sad.

01:18:49.040 But let me back up

01:18:50.100 and give me quick

01:18:50.720 explanations

01:18:51.320 on how does

01:18:53.280 a prepaid debit card

01:18:55.320 lead to crime?

01:18:57.720 So there are

01:18:58.840 three necessities

01:18:59.660 to successfully

01:19:01.140 committing online crime.

01:19:02.340 You have to gather data.

01:19:03.660 So that's the PII,

01:19:05.220 you know,

01:19:05.360 your social,

01:19:05.880 your date of birth.

01:19:06.440 It's also any tool

01:19:07.280 that you may use,

01:19:07.980 like a prepaid cell phone

01:19:09.800 or that Soxify proxy

01:19:11.480 that I talked about.

01:19:12.380 You have to gather data.

01:19:13.360 Then you have to commit

01:19:14.500 the crime.

01:19:15.280 And then finally,

01:19:16.340 you have to cash it out.

01:19:17.660 If you can't put cash

01:19:18.740 in pocket,

01:19:19.520 you're useless.

01:19:20.680 Okay.

01:19:21.480 So there are very few avenues

01:19:23.440 where you can actually

01:19:24.280 cash out.

01:19:24.860 There's,

01:19:25.060 there's bank accounts,

01:19:26.500 there's prepaid debit cards,

01:19:27.840 and then there's gift cards.

01:19:28.980 That's why you see

01:19:29.460 all these phone calls

01:19:30.300 all the time

01:19:30.760 about trying to engineer

01:19:31.800 people to go down

01:19:32.620 and buy gift cards.

01:19:33.640 Okay.

01:19:34.620 Because there's very few avenues

01:19:36.080 where you can literally

01:19:37.200 put cash in pocket.

01:19:38.700 Prepaid debit cards

01:19:39.680 is one of the big ones

01:19:40.600 because you can go down

01:19:41.420 to Walmart,

01:19:41.880 you can buy a prepaid

01:19:43.200 debit card for say $10,

01:19:45.020 and then you can receive

01:19:46.380 an ACH deposit on it.

01:19:48.420 What I was doing,

01:19:49.500 I invented this fraud

01:19:50.700 called a tax return

01:19:51.940 identity theft,

01:19:52.740 where I will use

01:19:53.700 your information

01:19:54.480 to file a tax return

01:19:56.420 and then have it deposited

01:19:57.760 onto one of these

01:19:58.520 prepaid cards.

01:19:59.460 I was stealing

01:20:00.380 about $160,000 a week,

01:20:02.800 10 months out of the year,

01:20:04.140 doing that type of fraud.

01:20:05.640 So that's,

01:20:06.300 that's where the prepaid

01:20:07.200 cards come in.

01:20:08.260 Today,

01:20:08.780 as I understand,

01:20:09.540 dead people's identity

01:20:10.400 for that.

01:20:10.860 Is that?

01:20:11.820 Dead people's identities,

01:20:12.860 right?

01:20:13.040 Now,

01:20:13.280 over time,

01:20:14.000 that morphed into

01:20:15.240 where you see today

01:20:16.420 that you'll see

01:20:16.940 these criminals,

01:20:17.600 they'll,

01:20:17.920 they'll talk a company

01:20:19.220 or,

01:20:19.540 you know,

01:20:20.140 steal W-2s from a company

01:20:21.900 or something like that

01:20:22.760 and do it on living people.

01:20:24.500 But back in the day,

01:20:25.120 it was on dead people.

01:20:25.140 And then you download it

01:20:25.440 onto your prepaid ATM,

01:20:26.760 which goes from $10

01:20:27.480 to $160,000

01:20:28.920 in the course of a week.

01:20:30.540 Okay.

01:20:31.040 Exactly.

01:20:31.440 And that's one of the things

01:20:32.080 that you saw with stimulus fraud

01:20:33.480 during the pandemic.

01:20:34.480 You saw a lot of prepaid cards

01:20:36.460 being used by fraudsters

01:20:38.160 because it's easier

01:20:38.940 to use those

01:20:39.720 than it is to set up

01:20:40.920 bank accounts

01:20:41.580 or anything else.

01:20:42.980 All right.

01:20:44.160 What about,

01:20:45.000 how do you,

01:20:45.420 how do you get $400,000

01:20:47.220 out of an ATM?

01:20:48.600 I mean,

01:20:48.900 how,

01:20:49.280 like,

01:20:49.580 how do you rob an ATM?

01:20:52.380 Well,

01:20:52.740 so you've got a stack,

01:20:54.060 you figure,

01:20:54.420 so I was filing

01:20:55.200 usually about 100,

01:20:56.720 150 tax returns a week.

01:20:58.460 I got to where I was filing

01:20:59.400 a tax return

01:21:00.080 every six minutes manually.

01:21:01.380 I would file those tax returns

01:21:03.200 for three to four days.

01:21:05.080 On the next day,

01:21:06.520 I would take a road trip

01:21:07.660 and actually plot out

01:21:08.900 a map of ATMs.

01:21:10.800 All right.

01:21:11.460 Then the next two days,

01:21:12.860 usually Friday and Saturday,

01:21:14.420 I would hit those ATMs.

01:21:15.920 I would have a stack

01:21:16.740 of prepaid debit cards,

01:21:18.240 a backpack,

01:21:19.260 and I would stay at an ATM

01:21:21.060 until I started to see

01:21:22.180 the same car pass around

01:21:23.260 maybe twice,

01:21:24.120 or,

01:21:24.240 you know,

01:21:24.500 stay there maybe 20 or 30 minutes

01:21:26.000 and just withdraw $20 bills,

01:21:28.200 stuff in a backpack.

01:21:29.320 So a Jansport backpack,

01:21:30.520 like you see these kids

01:21:31.520 carried college,

01:21:32.380 that will carry

01:21:33.720 $150,000 in 20s.

01:21:36.780 So typically,

01:21:37.300 I would steal about $160,000.

01:21:39.640 $150,000 of it

01:21:40.320 would go into a backpack.

01:21:41.440 I'd come back home

01:21:42.060 to Charleston, South Carolina.

01:21:43.660 I had a spare bedroom.

01:21:45.020 I would open up the door,

01:21:46.300 chuck the backpack in there,

01:21:47.580 and then one day,

01:21:48.720 you open the door

01:21:49.680 to that spare bedroom,

01:21:50.740 you see all the damn backpacks,

01:21:52.140 and you're like,

01:21:53.020 got to do something with that.

01:21:54.920 And that's when you find out

01:21:56.600 that,

01:21:57.000 okay,

01:21:57.260 let's learn how to launder money

01:21:58.580 from there.

01:21:59.480 And that's what happened.

01:22:00.520 Do you ever have the thought

01:22:01.680 that if you worked this hard

01:22:03.140 at a normal desk job,

01:22:04.500 you'd be even richer

01:22:05.620 than you became as a criminal?

01:22:08.240 That is absolutely true.

01:22:10.720 I mean,

01:22:10.980 a lot of people think

01:22:11.920 that criminals

01:22:12.420 are very lazy people.

01:22:13.940 And from what I've seen,

01:22:15.200 not just myself,

01:22:16.340 but prison time,

01:22:19.320 the people that I associated

01:22:20.480 with online,

01:22:21.720 we are not lazy people.

01:22:23.360 Typically,

01:22:23.860 when they say criminal lifestyle,

01:22:25.960 they mean that.

01:22:26.720 It's 24 hours a day,

01:22:27.860 seven days a week,

01:22:28.680 365 days a year.

01:22:30.080 It's constant,

01:22:31.080 and you're constantly

01:22:31.840 doing something.

01:22:33.380 There's got to be

01:22:34.060 an adrenaline rush,

01:22:35.620 and as you say,

01:22:36.300 the disrespect of authority,

01:22:37.540 the need to not be

01:22:38.200 under somebody's thumb.

01:22:39.320 Wait,

01:22:39.580 stand by,

01:22:39.940 because we have to get to next.

01:22:42.140 They did get you

01:22:42.880 in Disney,

01:22:43.900 as you point out.

01:22:44.740 They did.

01:22:45.280 It's back to the pokey you go,

01:22:46.960 but Brett would not stay there,

01:22:49.200 and it wasn't because

01:22:50.120 he was released

01:22:50.920 with the permission

01:22:51.820 of the authorities.

01:22:53.460 We'll get to that story,

01:22:54.900 his escape,

01:22:55.560 and then his turn

01:22:56.540 to the bright side.

01:23:00.080 So yada yada,

01:23:03.440 you wind up back in prison,

01:23:05.580 and you wind up,

01:23:07.580 in particular,

01:23:08.540 going to Ashland, Kentucky,

01:23:12.420 to the prison there.

01:23:13.640 Your dad starts visiting you,

01:23:16.000 and then what happened?

01:23:17.380 So what happens is

01:23:19.920 my mom leaves my dad,

01:23:22.580 and I don't really

01:23:23.440 get to have a conversation

01:23:24.740 with the man

01:23:25.300 for over 20 years.

01:23:26.340 He shows up at my sentencing,

01:23:27.880 and he stands up

01:23:29.240 at the sentencing,

01:23:29.900 and he tells the judge,

01:23:30.740 you know,

01:23:30.940 hey, I'm here for Brett.

01:23:31.840 I want to make sure

01:23:32.340 he has a good start

01:23:33.200 when he gets out.

01:23:33.920 He's welcome to come

01:23:34.820 and live with me,

01:23:35.680 everything else.

01:23:36.680 I get sent to Ashland,

01:23:37.840 Kentucky,

01:23:38.220 and what had happened was

01:23:39.300 is I was an asshole,

01:23:41.600 and I had told everybody

01:23:43.520 that if they gave me

01:23:44.960 any more than 60 months,

01:23:47.360 I was not staying.

01:23:49.400 So they gave me 75 months.

01:23:51.720 So I was already

01:23:52.940 of the opinion,

01:23:53.860 I'm going to release myself

01:23:55.420 on my own recognizance.

01:23:57.080 So my dad comes to visit.

01:23:58.700 About the third visit in,

01:23:59.960 he's talking to me.

01:24:00.900 He's like,

01:24:01.180 hey, you know,

01:24:02.040 I've been reading

01:24:02.460 about you online.

01:24:03.340 I'm like, yeah.

01:24:03.780 He's like, yeah.

01:24:04.260 He's like,

01:24:04.500 that's a lot of money you made.

01:24:05.720 And I'm like, yeah.

01:24:06.220 And he's like,

01:24:06.720 do you think you could

01:24:08.240 teach somebody

01:24:08.820 how to do that?

01:24:10.620 So what I used to say

01:24:11.860 when I first started

01:24:12.600 this legal career,

01:24:13.520 what I said was,

01:24:15.100 and I lied about it.

01:24:16.100 I was like, well,

01:24:16.600 I thought my dad

01:24:17.260 was back in my life,

01:24:18.240 and it turns out

01:24:18.820 he was just trying to use me.

01:24:20.420 The truth of the matter is,

01:24:22.220 is that, like I said,

01:24:23.560 my dad hadn't talked to me

01:24:24.820 in over 20 years,

01:24:25.980 and I really think

01:24:26.980 that he was viewing me

01:24:28.440 in that frame of my mom,

01:24:30.180 and that's the only way

01:24:30.820 he thought he could

01:24:31.380 communicate with me.

01:24:32.400 And I chose to manipulate

01:24:33.780 the man

01:24:34.400 into helping me escape.

01:24:36.380 So I taught him

01:24:37.240 how to do tax return fraud,

01:24:38.560 and in exchange for that,

01:24:39.640 he had $4,000 cash

01:24:41.120 to his name.

01:24:42.060 He gave me

01:24:42.760 the $4,000 cash,

01:24:44.080 dropped me off

01:24:44.560 to change the clothes,

01:24:45.880 a cell phone,

01:24:46.720 and a driver's license.

01:24:47.740 I lasted,

01:24:48.300 I was at a minimum

01:24:49.000 security camp,

01:24:50.800 had a job outside

01:24:51.740 of the fence,

01:24:53.040 and I escaped.

01:24:55.300 Lasted about

01:24:55.920 three to four weeks.

01:24:57.900 The U.S. Marshals,

01:24:58.880 meantime,

01:24:59.380 are canvassing

01:24:59.980 a three-state area.

01:25:02.020 They find me

01:25:02.620 after, I think,

01:25:03.220 three weeks

01:25:03.780 is when they found me,

01:25:04.600 and they found me,

01:25:05.200 I was,

01:25:06.000 how I was back

01:25:06.600 doing the same stuff

01:25:07.320 I had been doing,

01:25:08.160 trying to commit crime,

01:25:09.120 steal identities,

01:25:09.960 tax return fraud,

01:25:10.720 everything else,

01:25:11.440 and I was just

01:25:12.040 very fortunate

01:25:12.860 that I wasn't charged

01:25:14.500 for any of that.

01:25:16.820 That was the escape.

01:25:18.060 It's nothing romantic,

01:25:19.620 nothing,

01:25:21.260 you know,

01:25:21.480 I wish it was something

01:25:22.040 like Shawshank Redemption,

01:25:23.220 or a helicopter,

01:25:25.360 or something,

01:25:26.920 but it wasn't.

01:25:29.080 No, it's pretty crazy.

01:25:30.460 So you,

01:25:30.900 you finally get out of prison,

01:25:32.360 2011,

01:25:33.780 you wind up going back

01:25:35.000 to your life of crime,

01:25:35.960 you tried,

01:25:36.540 tried not to,

01:25:38.240 but you were on food stamps,

01:25:39.760 but you wind up

01:25:40.780 shoplifting basics

01:25:41.760 like toilet paper,

01:25:42.760 you got a job

01:25:43.220 in landscaping,

01:25:44.600 then you go back

01:25:45.200 on the dark web

01:25:45.880 using stolen credit card

01:25:47.040 information to order food,

01:25:48.180 you get arrested again

01:25:49.260 on a food order,

01:25:50.000 my gosh,

01:25:50.560 it's like,

01:25:51.260 I'm reading the story

01:25:52.000 like,

01:25:52.340 no, Brett,

01:25:53.060 no, stop,

01:25:54.140 it's like an alcoholic,

01:25:55.360 you know,

01:25:55.680 like stop it,

01:25:56.460 stop it,

01:25:56.820 put down the bottle,

01:25:57.740 and then you get,

01:25:59.620 Megan, I,

01:25:59.980 yeah, go ahead.

01:26:01.780 I am a poster child

01:26:03.520 for that thing

01:26:04.600 where recovery

01:26:05.380 is never a straight line,

01:26:07.100 all right,

01:26:07.500 I am,

01:26:08.020 I am that poster child

01:26:09.380 for that,

01:26:10.020 and it's,

01:26:10.420 it's true though,

01:26:12.180 you know,

01:26:13.500 my thing is,

01:26:14.340 I had three big turnarounds,

01:26:16.200 the first big turnaround

01:26:17.360 for me

01:26:18.100 was my sister,

01:26:19.820 my sister disowned me,

01:26:21.080 that's before I even

01:26:21.840 escaped from prison,

01:26:22.700 my sister disowned me,

01:26:23.760 not because I was a criminal,

01:26:24.840 Denise knew I was,

01:26:26.420 she disowned me

01:26:27.400 because of the stripper

01:26:28.620 that I was engaged

01:26:29.620 to be married to,

01:26:31.380 so because of that,

01:26:32.660 she doesn't talk to me

01:26:33.500 for over a year.

01:26:34.700 The stripper was a religion major,

01:26:36.460 didn't that soften Denise at all?

01:26:37.880 She was a theology major,

01:26:39.640 so it's like,

01:26:40.140 oh God,

01:26:40.640 can't you get a grip,

01:26:41.640 then?

01:26:42.160 No,

01:26:42.700 but,

01:26:43.100 you know,

01:26:44.880 it's,

01:26:45.300 Denise disowned me

01:26:47.720 after my escape,

01:26:49.380 Denise hadn't talked to me

01:26:50.160 for a year

01:26:50.720 when all this stuff

01:26:51.440 was going on,

01:26:52.220 I escaped from prison,

01:26:53.240 get caught quickly after that,

01:26:55.140 my dad comes to visit

01:26:56.680 and he's like,

01:26:57.140 can I do anything for you?

01:26:58.180 And I'm like,

01:26:58.520 yeah,

01:26:58.640 you can tell my sister

01:26:59.400 I said I love her.

01:27:01.020 Denise,

01:27:01.560 seven hours away,

01:27:02.920 gets in the car pregnant,

01:27:04.480 drives to come see

01:27:05.340 dumbass brother

01:27:06.180 for 10 minutes

01:27:06.940 to tell me she loves me

01:27:07.960 and I don't get to see her again

01:27:09.180 for five and a half years.

01:27:10.920 That's the first turnaround

01:27:12.560 right there.

01:27:13.180 It took two and a half years

01:27:14.220 behind the fence

01:27:15.220 for me to really accept

01:27:16.900 responsibility

01:27:17.540 and say,

01:27:18.160 hey,

01:27:18.260 I didn't do it

01:27:18.900 for my family

01:27:19.700 or for my wife

01:27:20.660 or for my stripper girlfriend.

01:27:22.180 I chose to victimize people

01:27:23.740 because I wanted to.

01:27:25.780 So that's the first

01:27:26.620 real turnaround

01:27:27.820 right there.

01:27:28.920 After I got out of prison,

01:27:31.340 like you said,

01:27:31.780 I couldn't get a job.

01:27:33.120 Nobody's going to hire

01:27:33.860 the guy that steals everything.

01:27:35.520 Plus,

01:27:35.960 I couldn't touch a computer.

01:27:37.180 I had,

01:27:37.480 I actually had a couple

01:27:38.340 of job offers,

01:27:39.100 but I couldn't take them.

01:27:39.900 So I ended up shoplifting

01:27:41.660 toilet paper,

01:27:42.880 met my wife,

01:27:43.760 Michelle,

01:27:44.280 and that's the second

01:27:45.420 turnaround right there.

01:27:46.620 Michelle was the first

01:27:49.500 relationship that I've had

01:27:51.080 where it wasn't about

01:27:53.160 what I could give somebody.

01:27:54.660 It was just about

01:27:55.900 she wanted me for me.

01:27:58.060 And it took dumbass Brett

01:28:00.720 going back to prison

01:28:01.720 to understand that.

01:28:03.620 That was the second turnaround.

01:28:05.200 And then the third turnaround

01:28:06.080 is when I got out

01:28:06.860 of the probation violation,

01:28:08.900 I reached out to the FBI.

01:28:10.860 This guy named Keith Malarski

01:28:12.200 out of the Pittsburgh field office,

01:28:15.180 I reached out to him,

01:28:15.940 sent him a message.

01:28:16.720 I was like,

01:28:17.080 hey, man,

01:28:17.660 I think you did a great job

01:28:19.100 with all the arrests.

01:28:19.920 I've got a lot of respect for you.

01:28:21.160 By the way,

01:28:21.960 I'd like to be legal.

01:28:24.220 The guy took me under his wing,

01:28:25.600 gave me references,

01:28:26.420 gave me advice.

01:28:27.200 He retired a few years ago,

01:28:28.500 but he still does that

01:28:29.460 to this day.

01:28:31.140 And that opened

01:28:32.360 these doors for me.

01:28:33.720 From there,

01:28:34.480 it was the head

01:28:36.500 of the Identity Theft Council.

01:28:37.960 He took me in

01:28:38.520 under his wing.

01:28:39.540 The CNP group,

01:28:40.580 the Cardinal Present group,

01:28:41.620 they gave me

01:28:42.280 my first paid speaking job.

01:28:44.660 Microsoft finds out about it.

01:28:46.740 They come down

01:28:47.440 and hire me

01:28:48.060 as a consultant.

01:28:49.860 And then today,

01:28:50.840 I've got the show

01:28:51.960 I'm trying to build behind me

01:28:52.980 that you see

01:28:53.420 on the big thing

01:28:54.840 back behind me,

01:28:55.840 but I'm also an ambassador

01:28:56.940 for AARP.

01:28:58.400 I speak across the planet.

01:29:00.360 Arcos Labs

01:29:01.100 has named me

01:29:01.860 as the first

01:29:02.660 chief criminal officer

01:29:03.940 on the planet.

01:29:04.860 I lead a very blessed life

01:29:07.860 that I'm going to tell you

01:29:08.680 outright,

01:29:09.660 I really don't deserve it.

01:29:12.840 But I'm damn grateful

01:29:13.960 to have it.

01:29:15.360 Do you ever miss

01:29:17.180 the life of crime?

01:29:18.180 The adrenaline?

01:29:19.060 The uncertainty?

01:29:20.400 You know,

01:29:20.920 I don't know.

01:29:21.340 Do you ever miss that?

01:29:23.200 No, I don't.

01:29:24.440 I don't.

01:29:25.140 I don't miss

01:29:25.720 the knocks at the door.

01:29:27.840 I don't miss

01:29:28.500 having to have

01:29:28.980 your front blinds

01:29:29.860 drawn all the time,

01:29:31.080 scared of

01:29:31.580 when a cop

01:29:33.480 pulls in behind you.

01:29:34.860 I don't miss

01:29:36.420 any of that.

01:29:37.560 I'm on the dark web

01:29:38.600 all the time.

01:29:39.400 I'm talking to those

01:29:40.540 guys.

01:29:41.520 I do it under my name.

01:29:42.740 I go on these

01:29:43.360 websites and forums

01:29:45.720 and I talk to the guys there

01:29:46.940 and get information

01:29:48.140 and I'm accepted

01:29:48.940 in those groups.

01:29:50.500 I don't judge those people

01:29:51.920 because I used to be there,

01:29:53.560 but they know

01:29:55.180 I'm on the other side

01:29:56.080 and I know

01:29:57.420 they're on the other side

01:29:58.380 and

01:29:59.040 it's kind of

01:30:00.480 that they taught

01:30:01.060 they're nothing else.

01:30:01.980 Why would they give

01:30:02.380 their modern day tricks

01:30:03.340 up to you knowing that

01:30:04.340 you're...

01:30:04.400 Well, the reason is

01:30:05.180 that the threat

01:30:08.020 landscape is so large

01:30:09.360 you're not going to

01:30:09.900 plug all those holes

01:30:10.880 and the other reason

01:30:11.740 is that cybercrime

01:30:13.520 tends to be

01:30:14.080 an open environment.

01:30:15.460 When I built

01:30:15.920 Shadow Crew,

01:30:16.840 we built it

01:30:17.460 with the understanding

01:30:18.440 that by everyone

01:30:19.920 being open source,

01:30:20.880 by everyone sharing,

01:30:22.060 exchanging information

01:30:22.920 and collaborating together,

01:30:24.680 everyone becomes

01:30:25.420 more educated,

01:30:26.580 everyone becomes

01:30:27.200 more profitable

01:30:27.940 at the end of the day.

01:30:29.020 So even though

01:30:29.740 you have these environments

01:30:31.380 where somebody

01:30:32.160 like me,

01:30:32.860 I'm in there

01:30:33.460 under my own name,

01:30:34.340 you've got FBI,

01:30:35.260 you've got worldwide

01:30:36.440 law enforcement,

01:30:37.300 you've got security people

01:30:39.120 in there all the time

01:30:40.000 that are reading these things,

01:30:41.540 even though those people

01:30:42.540 are in there,

01:30:43.560 it really doesn't matter

01:30:44.940 at the end of the day.

01:30:46.320 You're still able

01:30:47.280 to find targets

01:30:48.180 and victimize

01:30:49.000 either individuals

01:30:49.760 or organizations

01:30:50.940 pretty effectively.

01:30:51.680 Such a target-rich

01:30:53.120 environment, sadly.

01:30:54.740 So what about,

01:30:55.560 can I ask you,

01:30:57.120 Coinbase,

01:30:59.380 Bitcoin,

01:31:00.380 I know more and more

01:31:01.380 these are being used

01:31:02.560 to try to get people's money

01:31:03.960 and scams.

01:31:05.480 What do you make of them?

01:31:08.340 It's interesting.

01:31:10.740 Bitcoin,

01:31:11.640 there's actually

01:31:12.240 a couple of precursors

01:31:13.300 to Bitcoin

01:31:14.100 and those precursors

01:31:15.260 are e-gold

01:31:16.100 and Liberty Reserve

01:31:17.260 and those were strictly,

01:31:19.100 those are exactly

01:31:19.860 what cryptocurrency

01:31:20.980 is now,

01:31:22.080 just minus blockchain,

01:31:23.540 that distributed ledger.

01:31:24.900 All right?

01:31:25.720 Those were invented

01:31:26.780 so that criminals

01:31:28.480 could transfer money

01:31:30.940 to each other

01:31:31.580 or as a store of value

01:31:33.320 for criminal enterprises.

01:31:35.680 Bitcoin,

01:31:36.520 its main use case,

01:31:38.060 its initial use case

01:31:39.400 was exactly

01:31:40.300 the same thing.

01:31:41.700 Ross Ulbrich,

01:31:42.380 the guy who started

01:31:43.040 Silk Road One,

01:31:44.680 he builds a criminal website,

01:31:46.140 basically a drug marketplace

01:31:47.340 and the only form

01:31:48.140 of payment he accepts

01:31:49.200 is Bitcoin.

01:31:50.160 So that really gives

01:31:50.920 crypto its first use case.

01:31:52.960 Today,

01:31:53.540 I have to say,

01:31:54.900 and I'm going to upset

01:31:55.440 a lot of people saying it,

01:31:56.780 but that use case

01:31:58.200 hasn't really changed much.

01:31:59.800 You're still laundering money.

01:32:01.240 You've got things

01:32:01.920 like Monero,

01:32:02.720 which is an anonymous

01:32:03.640 form of laundering money.

01:32:04.980 You've still got

01:32:05.500 those types of tokens

01:32:06.440 that do that.

01:32:08.560 My view of crypto

01:32:09.760 is that

01:32:10.540 by and large,

01:32:12.980 it is a Ponzi scheme

01:32:14.660 that is on the verge

01:32:16.460 of becoming legitimate.

01:32:19.680 It just isn't.

01:32:20.880 I don't know.

01:32:21.720 I mean,

01:32:21.880 right now,

01:32:22.180 we've got a 16%

01:32:23.420 adoption rate

01:32:24.940 in the United States.

01:32:25.860 So 16% of the U.S.

01:32:27.100 population

01:32:27.460 has some form of crypto.

01:32:30.260 We're also seeing

01:32:31.180 crypto winter right now

01:32:32.340 where people are starting

01:32:33.240 to understand

01:32:33.720 that while you may be

01:32:35.520 in exchange,

01:32:36.380 and we've seen several exchanges

01:32:37.680 go bankrupt recently,

01:32:38.800 while you may be

01:32:39.880 in exchange

01:32:40.660 that has a lot of crypto,

01:32:42.240 you may not have

01:32:43.200 a lot of U.S. dollars

01:32:44.440 to back that.

01:32:45.780 So you're seeing

01:32:46.240 a lot of scams.

01:32:47.220 You're seeing

01:32:47.560 a lot of problems

01:32:49.340 in the crypto industry.

01:32:50.960 I really think

01:32:51.820 that we need

01:32:52.380 for it to be

01:32:52.960 legitimized,

01:32:54.720 for it to move past

01:32:55.580 that being on the cusp

01:32:57.540 of a Ponzi

01:32:58.320 into legitimacy,

01:33:00.060 I think we need

01:33:00.860 proper regulation.

01:33:01.980 But the problem

01:33:02.560 with that

01:33:03.160 is none of the idiots

01:33:04.680 in Washington

01:33:05.720 have any idea

01:33:07.260 how to do

01:33:08.060 proper regulation

01:33:08.980 on the thing.

01:33:09.500 No.

01:33:09.900 So I don't know

01:33:10.820 how it is.

01:33:11.920 All right.

01:33:12.120 Now,

01:33:12.280 forgive me for asking

01:33:13.020 you for a 60-second answer.

01:33:14.320 We're almost out of time.

01:33:17.360 Election fraud

01:33:18.480 on voting machines.

01:33:20.160 If I wanted

01:33:20.700 to commit that,

01:33:21.360 I'd hire you.

01:33:22.480 I'd say,

01:33:23.060 Brett,

01:33:23.500 change the votes.

01:33:25.680 Can it be done?

01:33:26.780 What do you think?

01:33:27.320 Is that possible?

01:33:28.500 You know,

01:33:28.720 obviously this is relevant

01:33:29.620 in the news cycle.

01:33:30.920 Sure.

01:33:31.620 Sure.

01:33:32.040 So the answer is,

01:33:33.400 and again,

01:33:33.840 I'll piss off more people.

01:33:35.360 Why not?

01:33:36.120 But the answer is

01:33:36.880 it can be done.

01:33:38.320 It absolutely can be done.

01:33:40.160 The more effective way

01:33:41.900 to do that,

01:33:42.640 I believe,

01:33:43.600 is this idea,

01:33:45.000 and I've said it back

01:33:45.800 in Shadow Crew

01:33:46.380 and I continue

01:33:47.140 to say that today,

01:33:48.460 the perception of truth

01:33:50.100 is more important

01:33:51.500 than the truth itself.

01:33:53.120 All right?

01:33:53.740 So while I could

01:33:55.740 do all those votes

01:33:56.980 like that,

01:33:57.560 absolutely,

01:33:58.120 I could do that,

01:33:59.100 the more effective way

01:34:00.460 would be to change

01:34:01.600 the mindset

01:34:02.140 of the populace.

01:34:03.560 You know,

01:34:03.740 put fear,

01:34:04.620 uncertainty,

01:34:05.480 doubt

01:34:05.860 into a voting segment

01:34:07.820 and then get them

01:34:08.980 to react the way

01:34:09.760 that I want to.

01:34:11.660 And, you know,

01:34:12.400 there's a strategy question.

01:34:14.820 All right.

01:34:15.100 So before I let you go,

01:34:16.560 what's next for you?

01:34:18.180 Family?

01:34:19.960 You know,

01:34:20.460 I know you said

01:34:21.060 you used cognitive

01:34:21.840 behavioral therapy

01:34:22.840 to sort of work

01:34:23.420 through some of your

01:34:24.000 childhood issues.

01:34:24.720 That's good.

01:34:25.800 So what's next?

01:34:26.600 What is the next,

01:34:27.220 what does 62 look like

01:34:28.440 for you?

01:34:30.400 I honestly don't know.

01:34:31.780 My goal right now

01:34:33.240 is to make sure

01:34:33.960 that I am not the guy

01:34:35.040 who is remembered

01:34:35.700 for stealing everything,

01:34:36.820 but the guy

01:34:38.000 who is able

01:34:38.440 to turn it around.

01:34:39.680 That's my big thing.

01:34:40.740 I want to make sure

01:34:41.320 that I'm helping people,

01:34:42.320 not hurting people.

01:34:43.780 As long as I'm able

01:34:44.680 to do that,

01:34:45.280 that's exactly

01:34:45.760 what I'm going

01:34:46.200 to continue to do.

01:34:47.180 I know I'm working

01:34:48.020 on a TV show

01:34:48.840 that it looks like

01:34:49.600 it's finally going

01:34:50.120 to get off the ground.

01:34:51.820 We're working

01:34:52.400 on a book as well.

01:34:53.840 Other than that,

01:34:54.580 just continue plugging away

01:34:55.920 and doing the best job

01:34:56.800 that I can

01:34:57.280 to help protect

01:34:57.980 those businesses

01:34:58.640 and people

01:34:59.160 from that type of person

01:35:00.120 that I used to be.

01:35:01.800 I mean,

01:35:02.100 it was all part

01:35:03.020 of your journey

01:35:03.600 and you wouldn't be able

01:35:04.840 to do the good

01:35:05.580 you're doing now

01:35:06.260 if you didn't

01:35:07.200 have that history.

01:35:08.840 I'm so glad

01:35:09.480 you crossed over

01:35:10.600 to the good side

01:35:11.540 and very glad

01:35:12.660 that we have you

01:35:13.140 as a resource

01:35:13.620 and I would love

01:35:14.140 to have you back

01:35:14.700 when you publish

01:35:15.420 your book

01:35:15.780 or whenever you want

01:35:16.360 to come on.

01:35:17.220 It's been a fascinating

01:35:18.020 discussion, Brett.

01:35:18.840 Thank you so much, Megan.

01:35:20.280 I appreciate it.

01:35:21.300 All right.

01:35:21.560 So we're all putting

01:35:22.340 a credit freeze

01:35:23.300 with all the credit

01:35:24.600 reporting agencies

01:35:25.420 and we don't need

01:35:26.280 the monitoring service

01:35:27.300 today.

01:35:27.940 Get two-factor verification

01:35:29.640 and check your accounts

01:35:31.520 and use the password manager.

01:35:32.880 Those are very helpful

01:35:33.840 action cues.

01:35:35.200 Now, tomorrow,

01:35:35.960 don't miss the show

01:35:36.600 because you know

01:35:37.420 how they cancel live PD?

01:35:39.340 Well, guess what?

01:35:40.740 A version of it

01:35:41.880 is coming back

01:35:42.680 with Dan Abrams,

01:35:43.920 the guy who hosted it

01:35:44.780 before,

01:35:45.140 and he's going to give us

01:35:45.920 a little preview

01:35:46.520 of how it happened

01:35:47.920 on the program tomorrow.

01:35:49.720 Plus, we're going to dig

01:35:50.440 into the crisis

01:35:51.260 at the southern border

01:35:52.440 with some new facts

01:35:53.300 you haven't heard before.

01:35:54.360 Meantime, download

01:35:55.160 The Megyn Kelly Show

01:35:55.900 on Apple, Pandora,

01:35:56.880 Spotify, and Stitcher.

01:35:58.600 Leave me a comment

01:35:59.340 on the Apple reviews

01:36:00.840 and give us a five-star

01:36:01.640 review too.

01:36:02.180 That'd be awesome.

01:36:03.100 Go to youtube.com

01:36:03.860 slash Megyn Kelly

01:36:04.560 if you'd like to see the show.

01:36:06.240 Thank you so much

01:36:06.920 for being a part of it

01:36:07.700 and we'll see you tomorrow.

01:36:10.560 Thanks for listening

01:36:11.360 to The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:36:12.660 No BS, no agenda,

01:36:14.360 and no fear.

01:36:15.920 Thank you.

The Megyn Kelly Show - July 19, 2022

Prince Harry Goes Woke at the UN, and Cybercrime Lessons, with Dan Wootton and Brett Johnson ｜ Ep. 360

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