Five cops have been charged with second-degree murder in the death of Tyree Nichols, a black man who was pulled over by police in Dayton, Ohio on suspicion of DWI and pepper spray use. The case has sparked outrage across the country.
00:06:52.820Al Sharpton said something to the effect of just because they're all black doesn't mean it can't be racial.
00:06:56.820Van Jones said something very similar.
00:06:58.820A critical race theory law professor at Columbia named Kimberly Crenshaw said this is about structural racism that the police target communities of color.
00:08:42.820Almost all of them were resisting arrest, usually with a gun or with a knife.
00:08:46.820It is rare for the police to kill anybody, let alone an unarmed person, let alone an unarmed black person.
00:08:52.820By the way, in the last five years, the police have averaged killing 39 percent more unarmed whites.
00:08:57.820Can you name one? Of course not, because nobody cares if it's an unarmed white person.
00:09:01.820Van Jones doesn't come in. CNN doesn't come in. Joy Reid doesn't come in.
00:09:05.820Nobody gives a rip when it's an unarmed white person, even though the police kill more unarmed white people every year than they kill unarmed black people.
00:09:11.820But let's have a little bit of perspective, shall we?
00:09:14.820Yeah, well, that's that's not an abundance listening to the pundits this weekend who like to just pour gasoline on the fire.
00:09:26.820You know, I mean, there's so many people.
00:09:51.820Initially, he supported Black Lives Matter and then did a study and found out that because of the so-called Ferguson effect, some people now call it the George Floyd effect, people are pulling back to becoming more passive.
00:10:04.820He documented what he called excess deaths.
00:10:06.820In other words, deaths that otherwise would not have taken place had the police been engaging in their normal proactive policing.
00:10:12.820Thousands of them in just five cities alone.
00:10:14.820So it's not just a lie that the police are engaging in systemic racism.
00:10:17.820It's a lie that has real world consequences.
00:10:20.820I remember Mayor Rahm Emanuel of Chicago.
00:10:23.820He even said that because of the accusations false that the police were engaging in systemic racism after the death of a man named Laquan McDonald, the police had, quote, rolled themselves up into a fetal position, close quote.
00:10:35.820And as a result, homicides have gone up.
00:10:38.820And finally, getting back to what Professor Crenshaw said, it is a fact, unfortunately, that a young Black man, young being defined as as young as 10, as old as the mid-30s, a young Black man is 13 times more likely to be murdered than a young white man.
00:10:56.820Almost always the murderer is another young Black man.
00:11:01.820That's why the cops are deployed in communities of color, Ms. Crenshaw.
00:11:06.820It wasn't just Kimberly Crenshaw, who's like the critical race theory guru.
00:11:11.820Plenty of others weighed in with similar sentiments.
00:11:13.820Here's just a sampling of some of it in SOT 16.
00:11:18.820But I think race is still on the table when a culture of policing historically has treated those from different groups differently.
00:11:27.820Even when the individuals are from that same group, that culture can still exist.
00:11:32.820That is part of the training that these officers receive, that Black and brown equals danger.
00:11:37.820This comes at a time when the governor of Florida says no African-American AP classes, when we have demagoguery around critical race theory.
00:11:46.820So it is nonsense that Black and brown officers have not been part of the problem of systemic racism and policing.
00:11:54.820I'm about to educate some people right now.
00:11:56.820The vicious, brutal, unjustified, extrajudicial killing of Tyree Nichols is as a result of a police system that is built on white supremacy.
00:12:06.820White supremacy underpins the policing and criminal justice system.
00:12:11.820There is a systemic reality of white supremacy that produces racist white cops and racial gatekeeping black and brown cops.
00:12:19.820OK. And their representation is to represent white supremacy, not people of their own race.
00:12:28.820Hmm. Got it, Larry. It's that the system of white supremacy produces racist white cops and racial gatekeeping black and brown cops.
00:12:37.820That's what they were, racial gatekeeping black and brown cops.
00:12:40.820Megan, past the ad bill, I've got a headache.
00:12:44.820There is a Harvard economist named Roland Fryer, happened to be black.
00:12:48.820He's from the inner city in Baltimore.
00:12:50.820And he just knew because of these high profile deaths, whether it's Michael Brown in Ferguson or Freddie Gray in Baltimore or Laquan McDonald in Chicago, the young man who was curling the replica gun in Cleveland, he just knew the cops were murdering black people just because they were black.
00:13:10.820He did a study. He said the findings were the most shocking of my professional career.
00:13:14.820Not only were the police using deadly force against blacks because they were black, he found out that the police are more hesitant, more reluctant to pull the trigger on a black suspect than a white suspect.
00:13:25.820If anything, white people have something to moan about because the police are slightly more likely to pull the trigger on them than a similarly situated black suspect.
00:13:46.820It is a lie. Again, the lie is not just a normal lie. You believe a lot of stupid stuff. So what? This lie is getting people killed because it's altering the behavior of the cops and it's altering the behavior of suspects, especially young black suspects.
00:13:59.820If you believe you get pulled over by a cop, this cop is likely to brutalize you. Why should you comply?
00:14:05.820And there's a through line with all of these deaths, Megan. And the through line is this. Virtually every single one of them would have been avoided had the suspect complied.
00:14:13.820Now, again, you're a young black man. You're listening to Michelle and Barack Obama, to Al Sharpton, to Van Jones. Why should you comply? After all, they're out to kill you.
00:14:23.820And as a result, something that would have been a low level traffic stop turned into something very deadly.
00:14:28.820Except this poor guy. It does not look like we can say that happened in the case of Tyree Nichols. It looks like he was complying. They were accusing him of not complying.
00:14:37.820But as you point out, how much more can you lie down when you're already lying down? And then he ran.
00:14:42.820But do you agree? Like when that guy ran, who could blame him? They were beating the hell out of him already.
00:14:47.820The guy was running for his life. Right.
00:14:50.820As I said from the outset, there's no way, shape or form you can justify this.
00:14:54.820You've got five cops that are pretty big. This guy is a tall, skinny guy.
00:14:59.820And they beat him. They kick him. They pepper spray him.
00:15:02.820They grab him. They choke him. And he manages to get away and run away. How incompetent are these cops?
00:15:07.820They're like the Keystone Cops. Again, I think it goes back to whether or not that you've been cops in the first place.
00:15:12.820And let's have some perspective on how often this happens. The Chicago police chief, 36 year career, she said she's never seen anything so egregious.
00:15:21.820So we know this is an aberration. I'm in L.A. where the biggest police scandal was ramparts.
00:15:27.820There were 70 police officers that were involved. That was the scandal that provoked the movie called Training Day that Denzel Washington starred in.
00:15:34.82070 cops is a large number. Absolutely. But it's also represented one percent of the LAPD. And again, this is obviously very rare, which is why we're talking about.
00:15:43.820That's the thing is, like I said this on Friday before we saw the tapes, you've got 10 million arrests a year on average by law enforcement, 10 million.
00:15:52.820And we get one case here, one case there. You know, The Washington Post has been keeping this running tally of the number of unarmed black men shot and killed by police.
00:16:01.820It's 13, maybe 15 per year. Skeptic magazine pointing out in a really interesting poll a couple of years ago.
00:16:09.820If you ask, like somebody who considers themselves very liberal or extremely liberal, they think it's 10,000, 10,000.
00:16:14.820Yeah, the numbers are shockingly low, given the number of encounters cops have with defendants out there on the streets.
00:16:21.820You said you said arrest. You're right. There's 10 million arrests. There are 61 million contacts or encounters.
00:16:26.820So it's even a smaller percentage of that. And you're right about that magazine.
00:16:30.820They found out that that 50 percent of self-described very liberal people thought the police killed 1,000 unarmed black men in 2019.
00:16:39.820Eight percent thought they killed 10,000. And of the regular liberals, 39 percent thought they killed 1,000.
00:16:45.820Five percent thought they killed 10,000. According to the Washington Post database 2019, there were 12.
00:16:51.820That's how off they were. That's why people go bonkers whenever something like this happens, because they falsely assume it is not an aberration.
00:16:57.820But this is a normal police policing. It is not.
00:17:00.820Mm hmm. And we should point out that even amongst those who are considered, quote, unarmed, there are real questions about whether those folks actually were unarmed.
00:17:08.820Some have taken a deeper dive and found that even the unarmed folks in many cases were driving a vehicle toward the police officer.
00:17:17.820Well, that's a that's an armor. You know, that's a that's a that's a weapon or had a gun in the glove compartment, but not necessarily with their finger on the trigger.
00:17:25.820All sort of these things that get discounted.
00:17:27.820That's right. Michael Brown was unarmed, but they found his DNA on the officer's gun, meaning he's trying to get the gun.
00:17:32.820You're quite right. Unarmed does not mean not dangerous.
00:17:35.820Yeah. So the media is bent on turning this into a race war. They want a race war.
00:17:41.820I mean, they push it at every turn and they refuse to acknowledge statistics like the ones that we've been discussing.
00:17:46.820They just keep going back to lived experience and white supremacy and it's internalized by black people, too.
00:17:53.820And therefore, that's what you're seeing, as opposed to the study that you just pointed out by Roland Fryer.
00:17:57.820By the way, there was a fascinating documentary on him where they pointed out his Indian research assistant came to him and said, I'm I'm I'm embarrassed to tell you what we found.
00:18:08.820Like, I'm I'm nervous to tell you what we found. Like, I can't I don't feel comfortable saying he fired his whole staff because he did not like the results.
00:18:15.820Hired a bunch of researchers. Oops. They came up with the same conclusion.
00:18:19.820Right. And then Harvard decided to fire him.
00:18:21.820I mean, they haven't been able to do that entirely. But yeah, they're trying to ruin his life in any event.
00:18:26.820So they don't want to talk about those stats. They just want to talk about internalized white supremacy.
00:18:30.820This must be. It has to be. And Bill Maher was raising a good question this past weekend on his show, saying this knee jerk reaction to racialize everything.
00:18:38.820This the two mass shootings to two of the mass shootings that happened last week in California with Asian men killing members of an Asian American community.
00:18:46.820Just we had Chuck Schumer. We had other lawmakers go right to the biggest bigotry.
00:18:51.820What? Right. And it's preventing us from taking a good, hard look at what is actually behind these incidents.
00:19:00.820Well, you're right. And take the weekend before last in Chicago, 30 people shot seven fatally.
00:19:08.820Almost all of the victims and the perks were black. And the real question is why?
00:19:13.820And the answer is lack of fathers in the home that the left does not want to talk about.
00:19:18.820And all too often, those of us who are conservatives don't want to talk about it.
00:19:21.820The fact is that 70 percent of black kids enter the world without a father married to the mother in the home.
00:19:26.820And Barack Obama said you and I talked about this before, Megan.
00:19:30.820Barack Obama said a kid raised without a father is five times more likely before and and commit crime.
00:19:37.820Nine times are likely to drop out of school and 20 times are likely to end up in jail.
00:19:41.820And the question is, how have we gone from having 25 percent of young black men entering the world without a father married to the mother back in 1965,
00:19:47.820when there was clearly more racism than now to 70 percent today?
00:19:51.820And I would argue it's the welfare state. What we've done is we've incentivized women to marry the government.
00:19:55.820We've incentivized men to abandon their financial and moral responsibility.
00:19:59.820And we're not having a conversation about that.
00:20:02.820Hmm. And that's that your argument is behind the crime rate and academic failures that we've seen in some of these communities.
00:20:09.820And, you know, we've talked at length on our show before about studies that sort of talk about what's the what's the approach to education in some of these communities?
00:20:17.820You know, and how can we change attitudes there? Well, you get called a racist if you even take a hard look at that.
00:20:21.820Like, what's the attitude in terms of learning and excelling and getting straight A's and all that?
00:20:24.820None of that can be touched, Larry. We just have to blame it on white supremacy and move on.
00:20:28.820More critical race theory. That's what we need. You heard the lady say it.
00:20:31.820Right. And we're spending more money now on education than ever before.
00:20:35.820In fact, America, K through 12, spends more money on education than any other industrialized country in the world, except for Switzerland and Lombergsburg.
00:20:44.820What's it called? Lombergsburg? Where the casino is? Luxembourg.
00:20:49.820Luxembourg. Yeah, thank you. Baltimore has 13 public high schools, Megan.
00:20:54.82013 where 0% of the kids can do math at grade level. Another half a dozen were only 6%.
00:20:59.820Nationwide, according to the national report card of black eighth graders, these are 13 year old kids, 85% of them are neither math nor reading proficient.
00:21:09.820Half of them haven't even reached basic reading proficiency. Why are we talking about that?
00:21:14.820And you're talking about why black people can't compete in a digital world. Start there.
00:21:19.820It's it's incredible. Like to hear that it's Karen Finney, a Democratic strategist in that one soundbite, say anti black racism is everywhere.
00:21:27.820We know that this is part of the training these officers receive, that black and brown people equals danger. We see it.
00:21:32.820We have to acknowledge this comes at a time when the governor of Florida says no African-American AP classes, when we have demagoguery around critical race theory.
00:21:39.820This woman actually thinks more critical race theory classes or African-American AP classes is the solution to this problem.
00:21:48.820You know, I've seen graphs of how much homework a black kid does every night versus how much a Hispanic kid does versus a white kid versus an Asian kid.
00:21:57.820And it's night and day. If you don't have somebody in your home that will make sure you've done your homework, make sure you've gone to bed on time.
00:22:04.820Make sure you've been fed, clothed and housed and have sent to school with an attitude ready to learn.
00:22:09.820You are in very, very serious trouble. And we're not having that conversation.
00:22:13.820Take a city like Baltimore where Freddie Gray died in police custody. He was in the van and apparently had his neck stabbed.
00:22:19.820The mayor was black. The police chief was black. The number two on the police department was black.
00:22:24.820All the city council Democrat majority black. The state attorney who brought the charges against six officers was black.
00:22:30.820Three of the six officers were black. A judge before whom two of them tried their cases was black.
00:22:35.820The attorney general at the time black. The superintendent of schools in Baltimore black.
00:22:41.820The county superintendent black. And the president of the United States at the time was black.
00:22:45.820All these people running everything black. And I'm reminded of that of that comment that Wanda Sykes made that comedian.
00:22:52.820She said, how are you going to complain about the man when you are the man? Knock it off.
00:22:57.820Blacks are running almost all these major cities. Many of them are in charge of our police departments, as is in Chicago.
00:23:02.820Both the mayor and the head of the police department black.
00:23:05.820And we're still talking about structural systemic racism. Knock it off.
00:23:09.820There's some stats in Memphis. Memphis has where this happened, a black majority police force.
00:23:14.820Now, black people make up sixty five percent of the population there.
00:23:19.820C.J. Davis and a woman, I have to say, over thirty five years of experience in law enforcement.
00:23:24.820I met her. I interviewed her, Larry, when I was at NBC.
00:23:27.820And my own personal impression is very impressive woman.
00:23:30.820I mean, she was kind of a badass when I talked to her. I really liked her.
00:23:33.820And she was in the in North Carolina in that region when I was talking to her.
00:23:38.820We had a great talk when she was talking about how when she's in her plain clothes and she's walking through a department store, sometimes she gets followed.
00:23:45.820Right. That's that's a place where we women get followed more than black, white, whatever, because they think we're going to steal.
00:23:51.820Like we're the ones who take the merchandise. And I asked her whether she'd ever been followed while she was in there.
00:23:57.820And I said, have you ever wanted to turn around to say to the person following you, ma'am, you don't need to worry about somebody stealing from you today because I'm here and I'm the chief of police.
00:24:07.820I think she's like, of course, you know, I'd love to do it. But I pulled a soundbite of her because I know that C.J. Davis was definitely very focused in North Carolina.
00:24:15.820And I presume when she moved to Memphis on training officers in terms of de-escalation, that's that's an important thing.
00:24:23.820You know, whether you're left or right, you hear it a lot from the left de-escalation.
00:24:26.820These officers here were guilty of exactly the opposite. They were the escalators.
00:24:30.820The defendant wasn't escalating anything. He was like, guys, you're being really rough. Whoa.
00:24:34.820Right from the get go. But here's a soundbite from C.J. Davis, the now police chief of Memphis back in 2017 when I talked to her about de-escalation.
00:24:41.820The National Center for Women in Policing found that the average male officer is eight and a half times more likely to have an excessive force complaint against him than a woman.
00:24:53.820Why do you think that is? I believe it. Why?
00:24:55.820De-escalating someone who is six foot seven that's already drunk and you think I'm getting ready to break my nails fighting him.
00:25:06.820We've had a lot of practice on how to de-escalate situations.
00:25:13.820There is a side to being a woman, right? You're able to really reach people because you have so many experiences. You are a born nurturer.
00:25:22.820There were four female black police chiefs in the quadrangle area at the time, and it was kind of unprecedented.
00:25:30.820But in any event, Larry, I think I don't know where you go, because, you know, with all due respect to C.J.
00:25:36.820Can I comment on what you said, what you said about.
00:25:39.820But let me just finish the point I was going to make is like she is diverse in in every way. Right.
00:25:43.820It's not that usual to see a female police chief. She is black in a majority black community.
00:25:49.820The officers are black. She's prioritizes de-escalation. I know that, you know, and we looked at her background.
00:25:55.820So I don't know what you do if even if you take race out of it.
00:26:00.820What are we left with? We got somebody who prizes a de-escalation who's got a history of doing it.
00:26:03.820You've got a woman in there who the women historically cops are less likely to have the confrontation.
00:26:07.820So she's she's the one training these guys. Like, what else are we supposed to do?
00:26:12.820Well, again, these are bad cops. I'd love to be interested in hearing what their background is, whether or not they waived low level offense or maybe a drug offense that they otherwise would not have waived in order to get people on the police force because of low manpower.
00:26:27.820I suspect they never would have been cops had the standards not been lowered.
00:26:31.820So regarding the what she said about female cops, I have a lot of friends who are cops, as I mentioned, and they tell me this.
00:26:37.820When you are paired with a female and you're the bad guy, who do you go after?
00:26:42.820You go after the man because you feel you can take the smaller cop or the female cop because they feel that they're going to be easier to push around.
00:26:48.820It's just a fact that that that men who are paired with women often feel they are the target when a bad guy decides to become aggressive and not the female.
00:26:58.820I'm in Los Angeles. We've had back to back black police troops.
00:27:03.820The LAPD mirrors the racial demographic of the city. Yet whenever there's something that goes down, some of the activists yell and scream and talk about systemic racism.
00:27:11.820I don't know how much more you want. There's a city in L.A. called California called Rialto.
00:27:16.820It's one hundred thousand people. And demographically, it reflects the racial breakdown of California, the same percentage of Hispanics, of whites, of Asians, of blacks.
00:27:26.820And the police department was ordered to wear body cams and the cops didn't want to. But they did them for about a year.
00:27:32.820And here's the result. There were 90 percent fewer complaints against the police and 50 percent less use of force by the police.
00:27:40.820Not because the police changed their behavior. They've been monitored before. They had they had dash cams before.
00:27:45.820The civilians stopped lying, Megan. They knew where they were being taped.
00:27:49.820And it's a lie. It's a crime to call to say that you were brutalized by the police when, in fact, you were not.
00:27:55.820The civilians stopped lying. And as a result, they stopped resisting.
00:27:59.820And the cops did not have to use the kind of force they used in the past.
00:28:01.820So let's also tell civilians to comply. You won't die and you won't have to lie on a police officer.
00:28:09.820There's also it's a two way street. Cops should be good cops.
00:28:12.820And our goal should not be diverse police department.
00:28:14.820The goal should be good cops, irrespective of race, irrespective of gender.
00:28:18.820And you also ought to comply and stop lying on the police.
00:28:21.820Exactly, because this this would have been a situation that easily could have gone the other way.
00:28:25.820Had there not been videotape from the the body cams from the police cars and from local surveillance, the cops could have easily got any cop who's going to do this to a civilian will lie and come out and say he was the aggressor.
00:28:39.820He attacked us. He didn't comply. And we can see for ourselves, thanks to the videotape, that's not true.
00:28:44.820He was not the aggressor. He was trying to comply. You guys turned animalistic on him. I mean, it was animalistic.
00:28:53.820And Megan, this is interesting. They knew they were being taped and they did it anyway.
00:28:57.820I don't get it. Therefore, they were bad cops.
00:29:00.820There isn't a single cop I know that justifies the behavior of these cops.
00:29:04.820The people that hate bad cops the most are good cops because it makes them all look bad.
00:29:08.820They were bad cops. They knew they were being monitored.
00:29:11.820They couldn't subdue a skinny suspect after kicking and tasing and pepper spraying.
00:29:16.820The guy still got up and ran away again. How incompetent is that?
00:29:19.820Mm hmm. That's exactly right. And then you hear them at the back half of the tapes say, oh, he tried to get my gun.
00:29:25.820It's like, OK, all right. How stupid do they think we are?
00:29:29.820You know, it's just justice will be done in this case.
00:29:32.820And we'll see who else is going to be charged because the paramedics stood around doing absolutely nothing while he was suffering far too long.
00:29:38.820The charges are not done. And as I say, there's now a sixth police officer who's in trouble.
00:29:43.820So we're going to continue to follow it. Larry stays with us on the other side of this break.
00:30:33.820You would think that a woman of her age and status would not need to hear an academic title repeated everywhere before her name is said in order to feel worthy.
00:30:42.820But she clearly does because she has it said everywhere.
00:30:48.820They've been pushing this from Team Biden, Joe Biden and Jill Biden for years, for years now.
00:30:54.820In every press release and every appearance they make, they make sure you refer to her as Dr. Jill Biden, even if she's not doing or saying anything at all.
00:31:03.820To the point that even the football announcers on CBS News know we need to say it.
00:31:08.820If we're going to mention her, we've got to make sure we mention her properly at this testosterone filled sporting event.
00:31:15.820Even the sports announcers know that's what you have to say.
00:31:33.820When you say doctor, that's what we think of.
00:31:35.820Fake doctors like Dr. Jill, who insist everyone call them doctor all the time, live in academia for a few years after college and then run around trying to glob on to the respect and admiration we have for medical doctors.
00:31:48.820I am fine calling Dr. Jill, Dr. Jill, if she wants me to.
00:31:54.820I've done it when meeting her in person when I interviewed her and her husband at NBC, just like I have for any Ph.D. who wants me to mention their title or whose academic achievement is relevant to our interview or their appearance on my show.
00:32:07.820But she's the first person I have met who actually wants to be called doctor everywhere and in any context.
00:33:09.820I'm a jurist doctor, which I guarantee was harder to get than her doctorate, though I have never in my life asked people to call me doctor.
00:33:16.820And any lawyer who ever did that would be mocked to high heaven.
00:33:19.820It's so typical of the left these days.
00:33:21.820We have to use the exact words that they tell us to or we are being disrespectful.
00:33:25.820We have to engage in their fantasies about themselves, whether it's the men who are now women and the pronouns have to be said and words like field and rule of thumb have to be banned.
00:34:26.820At the end of the Bill Cosby show, the credits ran that was produced by Dr. Bill Cosby because he got a doctor degree in education.
00:34:35.820So there are other people that insist on being called doctors, even though you and I know that the term normally is applied to only medical doctors.
00:34:42.820I don't really care all that much about that.
00:34:43.820I'm more concerned about her husband's bad policies about the borders, about inflation, about how we're no longer energy independent, about how we are allowing five million illegal aliens into the country since he's been in office.
00:34:57.820The crazy pullout of Afghanistan that inspired Putin might might likely inform China and North Korea and Iran.
00:35:05.820That concerns me a lot more than the fact that Joe Biden wants to be called doctor.
00:35:09.820Same. And the only reason I raise it is because I sent out a tweet, one little tweet, and they lost their minds.
00:35:16.820It's so fun aggravating them on Twitter.
00:35:50.820They think they can spend their whole lives there and never accomplish anything real and still weren't the same respect and adoration that we give to a medical doctor who saves a child's life.
00:36:10.820And regarding the stuff we just talked about in identity politics, take the death of George Floyd, however you feel about the way Derek Chauvin treated him.
00:36:16.820And I believe that the charges and the convictions were just there is zero evidence that Derek Chauvin acted the way he did because of George Floyd's race.
00:36:45.820Two billion dollars in damages, all because of people like Black Lives Matter making the connection between George Floyd's treatment and his race when there wasn't any.
00:36:54.820And now you have the same cast of characters swooping in, you know, BLM's already talking about, of course, what happened in Memphis.
00:37:01.820Al Sharpton is going to be at the funeral.
00:37:04.820Benjamin Crump, who always goes in and tries to get money out of the community or the cops or whomever.
00:37:09.820You got the feds doing a civil rights investigation in Memphis.
00:37:19.820The federal government has no role yet, but they've got to stick their nose under the tent so they can look like they're doing something, Larry.
00:37:26.820It's like you could write the script as soon as you get news of an event like this.
00:37:43.820Because Ferguson is 67 percent black, but 85 percent of the traffic stops were black.
00:37:48.820Well, there was a study that came out by the National Institutes of Justice, which is the research arm of the DOJ.
00:37:53.820And they found out it is true that blacks are disproportionately stopped by the cops.
00:37:57.820But they said it's because blacks disproportionately break the law, more likely to speed, more likely to drive with an expired tag, more likely not to have a seatbelt on and so forth.
00:38:05.820And if you just look at the gap, 67 percent of the population, but 85 percent of the stops was at an 18 point gap.
00:38:12.820Look at the NYPD, which is which is ethnically diverse.
00:38:15.820Blacks are 25 percent of the population in New York, but 55 percent of the traffic stops.
00:38:21.820So therefore, the NYPD is more systemically racist than Ferguson.
00:38:24.820You can't look at it based on numbers.
00:38:26.820You have to look at it based on behavior.
00:38:27.820And once again, unfortunately, black drivers are more likely to commit a traffic offense than white drivers, which is why they're pulled over.
00:38:33.820And the people, by the way, who are saved by pulling people like that over and getting them off the streets are the very black and brown people living in their city that people on the left claim that they care about.
00:38:41.820Well, that's that that's the true tragedy here, because, you know, I mean, as you say, Ferguson effect or now the George Floyd effect.
00:38:48.820Black and brown people are going to die in greater numbers if we see a police pull back the way we saw after George Floyd as a result of this.
00:38:54.820And that is why the media needs to be responsible.
00:38:56.820But they won't be. They'll just put these tapes on on real and just keep running them.
00:39:01.820And they won't offer any of the perspective or context that you just offered or that we provided to on the on the actual statistics when it comes to law enforcement.
00:39:10.820That's because they listen to listen to the loudmouths regarding this professor, Kimberly Crenshaw, who says the police are engaging in structural racism by targeting black communities.
00:39:18.820Guess what? Eighty one percent of blacks want the police manpower to remain the same or to be increased.
00:39:23.820So the very people that you claim are being targeted want to be targeted by the cops.
00:39:28.820Right. Right. We want more, not not less. But here's here's my word.
00:39:32.820Yeah, right. It's such such awkward details.
00:39:35.820Here's my worry. I remember listening to a national review podcast right after George Floyd and they were saying, is this a game changer?
00:39:42.820You know, is this Black Lives Matter? It's on the basketball courts. It's on the Fifth Avenue.
00:39:47.820And the consensus at the time amongst those guys was no, it's not.
00:39:52.820You know, the fires flare and then calm down and then, you know, sort of go back to our normal lives.
00:39:57.820That turned out not to be true. You know, I mean, the race essentialism that is filtered down now, K through 12.
00:40:04.820And I realize that predated George Floyd, but that poured a bunch of gasoline on it is just breathtaking, you know, at every level in the schools, in the corporations, at the city level.
00:40:14.820There's a story here in New York City just today. Where is it in front of you? But anyway, they're they're mandatoring CRT training for every single New York City employee. It's everywhere.
00:40:23.820And so this is the kind of thing that they will use to make it even more expansive.
00:40:29.820Well, it is a game changer. It will be a game changer. As I mentioned, in all these cities where these high profile deaths have taken place, the cops have pulled back.
00:40:36.820It's going to happen in Memphis. And again, crime is going to go up.
00:40:39.820The victims of that crime are going to be the very black people that people on the left claim that they care about.
00:40:43.820It is going to have an effect. It is going to be a game changer.
00:40:46.820The police have been demoralized. Morale has never been this low.
00:40:49.820Manpower has never been this difficult.
00:40:51.820Police officers are resigning earlier. As I said before, they're transferring to other other departments.
00:40:55.820Manpower is low. The only way to get manpower up is to lower standards.
00:40:58.820When you lower standards, you're more likely to get bad cops, as was the case here in Memphis.
00:41:02.820Again, I'd love to hear the see the applications of these five officers to find out whether in other days they would have even made the cut.
00:41:09.820So what do we what do we get now, Larry? We get people the push for reparations grows.
00:41:16.820Right. Like we saw in California and your state, which you should be governor of right now, had there been any justice in this life.
00:41:22.820But you couldn't because you're the black face of white supremacy, says the L.A. Times.
00:41:26.820You couldn't hold the role. You know, yes.
00:41:29.820So so these are sort of the crazy solutions that people people throw out there to address our historical racism, the historical problems of the American people when it comes to slavery.
00:41:38.820When it comes to slavery, no one's going to take a look.
00:41:41.820I mean, I don't know, like if if you were president, let's say you're president, forget governor.
00:41:45.820And I said, Larry, how do we how do we do something about those 70 percent of black families that don't have a father figure in them?
00:41:54.820Well, the answer is, first of all, to call attention to the problem.
00:41:57.820You can't solve it unless you know it's there. I've often talked to people about this and they're shocked at those numbers.
00:42:02.820The other thing is I would urge churches, nonprofits to get involved.
00:42:06.820And I would direct the money that we're spending on welfare programs for those kinds of programs.
00:42:10.820You can't take the money away from people that made them dependent.
00:42:13.820But you can certainly put strings attached to it to make sure that they reconsider their behavior and hopefully get on the path towards self-sufficiency.
00:42:20.820You have to at least talk about this. You have to at least talk about what's going on regarding the Ferguson effect, the George Floyd effect.
00:42:26.820A lot of people don't even know that. I had lunch one time with one of my mentors, Tom Sowell, the economist.
00:42:30.820And I said, probably the most investigated aspect of all economics is the minimum wage.
00:42:35.820He said, that's right. He did more studies on that than probably anything else.
00:42:38.820And I said the consensus overwhelmingly is the minimum wage laws do harm to the very people that you claim that you care about, people with unskilled levels of experience.
00:42:47.820Many of them black and brown. Many of them are secondary and tertiary earners of wages like like females.
00:42:52.820And he said, I said, so how come you haven't won that argument?
00:42:55.820And he said, Larry, they haven't heard the argument.
00:42:59.820And we've seen this from Twitter files, the suppression of conservatives and conservative content, the suppression of any debate on whether or not we ought to be opposing lockdowns and mandates.
00:43:09.820Many people don't even know about this, haven't even heard it.
00:43:12.820So at the very least, where I become governor or president, if I decide to run and I'm thinking about it, I would have the bully pulpit and people would have to hear the kinds of things you and I are talking about.
00:43:21.820And they would have to consider them. And they aren't doing that right now.
00:43:24.820Wait a minute. You just slipped a little news in there. Are you actually thinking about running for president?
00:43:29.820News nugget. Yes, I am. I'm going to probably announce if I decide to do it at the end of March, early April.
00:43:35.820I've been to Iowa about four or five times in the last month. I've been to New Hampshire. I've met a lot of people.
00:43:39.820I'm meeting with donors. I am really strongly giving consideration.
00:43:42.820It isn't because I want to derail Trump or DeSantis or anybody else who decides to run.
00:43:47.820We all know what the issues are. They are inflation. They are energy independence.
00:43:50.820They are the borders. They are the poor education kids are getting in the inner city.
00:43:55.820But I want to bring to the table two things. The first is the centrality of having fathers in the home that we don't talk enough about.
00:44:00.820And the second is I think I can debunk this lie about systemic racism because I'm from the hood.
00:44:05.820My father grew up in Athens, Georgia, during real Jim Crow South.
00:44:08.820I think I can debunk this notion in a more passionate and I think credible way than maybe anybody else can.
00:44:14.820So I'm running for all those reasons if I decide to run.
00:50:04.820Let's move on to more interesting people.
00:50:07.820Um, first of all, let's, let's, we can't, we'd be remiss if we didn't touch on these second degree murder charges against these cops in the Tyree Nichols case.
00:50:14.820Um, look, us from the outside, we look at these tapes.
00:50:29.820First of all, I don't like they, I don't like when we lump all office.
00:50:33.820Um, without looking at each individual's actions.
00:50:38.820And if I'm representing someone, it's going to be one person in particular, and I will trace their actions step by step, what they knew, what they were told.
00:50:46.820And hopefully I have the guy who participated, but didn't cross the line.
00:51:13.820What Ben Crump said this morning on, I think it was CBS, which I agree with is like, when you have videos like this, we don't need the new standard is you don't need a six month investigation.
00:51:24.820He was complimenting law enforcement for acting relatively swiftly in bringing charges here.
00:51:34.820I feel like some people are saying a second degree murder is too, too much that they should have gone for involuntary manslaughter.
00:51:41.820What's the standard between those two charges, Mark?
00:51:43.820And like, do you see, do you think the charge is correct?
00:51:46.820Do you agree that it should be second degree?
00:51:48.820I think that all prosecutors are instructed to go for the most severe charge that they can justify and then let the jurors, if they want, find that it's not that, but to go low because somehow, you know, you think it's an easier get is not the right call.
00:52:05.820You go for the highest charge that is reasonable that you can make the argument for.
00:52:10.820And I think that they can make that argument.
00:52:15.820Second degree, as I understand it, is a is an intentional killing that didn't have premeditation, whereas involuntary manslaughter is reckless.
00:52:41.820Well, the standard of proof is the same.
00:52:43.820It's just the elements that they have to prove are much lower.
00:52:46.820And yes, it does give prosecutors the ability to plea bargain.
00:52:50.820So, OK, instead of it being man to about murder, too, we'll let you plea bargain it down.
00:52:54.820And instead of having, you know, 25 years in prison, but now you're only facing 15 years in prison.
00:53:00.820There is one aggravating factor or that helps the police officer mitigating factor is when help arrives, when the medical help arrives, they do not render immediate aid.
00:53:14.820You see them not like jumping right on the victim and, you know, to try to revive him and try to give him aid for quite some time.
00:53:22.820And that is something that if I'm a defense attorney, I'm saying, listen, maybe my guy overreacted, but then he's the one who called and asked for medical assistance.
00:53:29.820And they got here and they're chewing the fat on who's going to play on Sunday football game as opposed to rendering aid.
00:53:35.820Mark, forgive me for going there, but it's something that the defense lawyers are undoubtedly doing now.
00:53:41.820They're going to want toxicology tests on the defendant.
00:53:45.820They're going to want to try to make this more complicated morally than it currently is.
00:53:51.820Right. Well, that's what we do. Our job.
00:53:54.820Listen, our job is not to seek the truth.
00:53:56.820That's what the prosecutors allegedly are supposed to do.
00:53:59.820Our job is to use the law and seek an acquittal.
00:54:03.820And if somehow those things are admissible and they're favorable, we're going to use it.
00:54:08.820We would use it if it was one of your family members accused of something.
00:54:12.820We're going to do everything we possibly can to get the best possible outcome.
00:54:15.820Any chance, Arthur, they're worried about flight.
00:54:18.820These five cops, they know what they would be facing in prison.
00:54:21.820Cops, you know, who killed a man under these circumstances.
00:54:24.820And they're out on bail, you know, so I don't know.
00:54:27.820I wonder if I'd be thinking I got to get out of here.
00:54:31.820I would tell you the rule of thumb, I can't speak about Tennessee, but the rule of thumb in the state of New York is when you're charged with a homicide, it is very, very hard to get any bail whatsoever.
00:54:45.820The rule of thumb is homicide equals remand.
00:54:48.820Remand means if someone comes and puts a billion dollars up, you don't get out unless there's something special like a real self-defense claim or something along those lines.
00:54:58.820Hold on one second. This is special. And everyone needs to understand the purpose of bail.
00:55:02.820It's not to punish somebody. It's will the cops return to court and answer to the charges.
00:55:09.820And the bail should be the bond amount should be as low as possible to ensure that they can return to court.
00:55:18.820And Megan's point is when you're facing life in prison and your acts are on video, you're not relying on some crackhead who's a block away saying, yeah, he did it.
00:55:30.820You're on your own body cam video. And like, I'm a young man. I'm going to spend the rest of my life in jail.
00:55:36.820Why don't I try to get the Venezuela? Why don't I try to get somewhere else?
00:55:40.820You know, I think that's what about it. Have you ever seen anybody do it?
00:55:43.820Like any of your clients, you drive your car down to the Mexican border.
00:55:46.820It's so easy to cross north. How hard could it be to cross south?
00:55:49.820And I realized Mexico extradites if they find you, they're going to send you back to the United States.
00:55:53.820What if they don't find you? I don't like why don't more defendants in this position do that?
00:55:58.820I will tell you, first of all, it's very hard to not get caught.
00:56:02.820Second of all, I actually had a client who did it and I told him, look, be confident.
00:56:06.820I'm working on your case. He takes off. About a month later, I got the charges dropped.
00:56:11.820I wasn't able to reach him to tell him I don't think he knows at this point.
00:56:14.820No, Megan, when I was a prosecutor, as the jury was deliberating, the client, the defendant left.
00:56:21.820And the defense attorney was very confident he was going to win.
00:57:16.820Guy down in South Carolina from a long line of legal scholars and successful prosecutors, though this guy was, to put it charitably, the runt of the litter,
00:57:26.820didn't have anything close to the career that his dad and his granddad and the other guy had above him.
00:57:31.820And he they first run into trouble when his son has this terrible boat accident.
00:57:37.820His son, Paul, has this terrible boat accident.
00:57:38.820And the son, Paul, is reportedly blotto drunk and hits a piling.
00:57:44.820And a young girl named Mallory goes flying, dies on impact, 19 years old, terrible.
00:59:11.820And, you know, defense lawyers are saying the reason why we think it might have been someone else's because it's payback because his son killed someone two years ago in a boating accident.
01:00:23.820So they, of course, if he committed this brutal murder of his son and his wife, with whom he was said to have a bad relationship, though, the defense is denying that his wife and he blew them up.
01:00:36.820I mean, with a shotgun, there would be blood on him.
01:01:20.820OK, it does come down to the science, first and foremost, as long as the defense can create a reasonable doubt as to whether that's blood and whether that's the blood that would have come from him shooting.
01:01:31.820As long as they neutralize it, then then the jurors cannot decide on that issue.
01:01:36.820Then it comes down to the other stuff.
01:01:38.820And again, there's no busload of nuns who saw him do it.
01:01:41.820But again, the question is, and while prosecutors don't have to prove motive, still jurors want to know, why?
01:01:51.820I don't know if the judge is going to let it in, but he just got caught stealing $8 million from clients and from law and from his lawyers in his own law firm,
01:03:10.820It'll be up to the judge's discretion.
01:03:12.820But I think the prosecutor opened on it.
01:03:14.820So if the judge allowed the prosecutor to open on it, then the judge is probably is letting it in.
01:03:19.820If we go back to the blood for a second, the flip side of the coin about him not having blood on him is he tells the paramedics or the 911 caller, I checked for a pulse on both of them.
01:03:34.820They said there was blood dripping from the ceiling.
01:03:37.820They're saying if he really tested them or put his hands on them to check their pulse, he's going to have some blood on him.
01:03:44.820So the fact that he doesn't have any blood on him means he didn't check it.
01:03:47.820However, however, first of all, we are hearing that there was blood on his shirt, assuming the jurors buy that it's blood and not, you know, barbecue sauce.
01:03:56.820But there's a difference between blood that's soaked on a white shirt that would be consistent with leaning over someone and getting that type of transfer.
01:04:06.820And then little bits and splatter that you would expect from someone who shoots someone with a shotgun.
01:04:11.820They should easily be able to discern what the difference is.
01:04:14.820If he did it, if he committed this crime, there was some garment he should have been wearing that would be covered in blood.
01:04:20.820Right. I mean, I don't know how close they're saying it would have to be.
01:04:22.820They're not alleging he was across the way.
01:04:33.820Arthur was saying that the defense is saying there's no forensics to me on a jacket of some sort, like a trench coat or whatever that he left at his mother's place, the exact place that he's claiming he went to.
01:04:46.820And that that he was there, that's his alibi.
01:05:53.820He would have had plenty of time to go hide those guns.
01:05:57.820And my producer, Debbie, is confirming they did not find the guns to get to get rid of those guns and to get rid of whatever bloody thing he may have been wearing.
01:06:05.820And the defense is trying to explain away that trench coat with the gun residue on it, Mark, on the inside of the trench coat that he went and left at his mommy's.
01:06:13.820He ran to mommy after the alleged crime with Alzheimer's.
01:06:29.820He was discombobulated and he got a gun just in case there was a killer still on sight.
01:06:35.820OK, so as Arthur knows, our job as defense lawyers is to come up with a reasonable hypothesis of innocence.
01:06:43.820This is a circumstantial case, which means there's no busload of nuns who saw him do it.
01:06:48.820Every little piece of the puzzle, if it can be explained away, at least with an equally plausible defense theory, negates the prosecutor's case.
01:07:49.820And he said, no one should think that I'm supporting my father.
01:07:52.820And both sides, I think, are saying that he's going to testify on their behalf.
01:07:55.820So that poor kid's head's got to be spinning off his shoulders.
01:07:58.820What I don't understand is, OK, if he didn't do it, right, do you buy that somehow two years later someone's seeking revenge by killing the mother and the son?
01:08:14.820That just doesn't make any sense to me.
01:08:18.820Well, I mean, I guess if we're going to go down this lane, the theory is because it was a very big deal when this young woman was killed on that boat and it made national headlines.
01:08:28.320The family is very prominent and so on.
01:08:30.320And then they were accused of trying to cover it up, like go down there and control the testimonials of everybody who was on the boat to try to make it look like Paul Murtoch wasn't driving.
01:08:38.320In the end, it all came out, but it was very charged, emotionally charged.
01:08:43.320So it perhaps the theory is somebody went to kill Paul.
01:08:48.320They went to kill Paul and the mom's there and they say Paul was killed first.
01:08:52.320And then it's like, well, now you've got to kill the eyewitness.
01:08:55.320You know, it's unfortunate the mom was there, but she's got to go, too.
01:08:58.320Two years later, somehow they wanted to seek their revenge.
01:09:03.320Listen, all I'll say about that, Mark, is I very recently handled the case.
01:09:07.320There was the cover of all the newspapers here in New York where a man was accused of killing a Chinese food restaurant owner because he didn't give him enough duck sauce.
01:09:17.320And the whole issue was about he didn't get enough duck sauce and soy sauce.
01:09:21.320And nine months later, he went back and executed him.
01:09:24.320So my all I'm saying is never say never in New York, that driver of the boat would have been prosecuted for vehicular homicide for sure.
01:09:33.320That didn't happen down there in South in South Carolina.
01:09:36.320Maybe that's because the dad was tinkering and a family member who's suffering such a loss of their beautiful child says, you know what, if there's going to be no justice, no justice.
01:09:46.320Well, I'm going to make their I'm going to make their be just anyone who's had an egg roll with no soy sauce or duck sauce on it understands.
01:10:23.320This is Daniel Green, a sergeant, and he's showing and we're talking about his police officer body camera.
01:10:31.320And the reason I think this is introduced is to show what Alex Murtaugh told the officer when this officer got on scene and how Alex Murtaugh seemed to be Murdoch.
01:10:44.320Sorry, Murdoch seemed to be trying to say, oh, it was somebody who's mad at Paul because of that boat ride.
01:10:50.320Oh, he's like sort of laying the foundation right from the get go.
01:19:14.320All right. So I honestly I it would be a dereliction of duty if I did not use this moment to talk about the most famous recent case in which this has been a problem.
01:19:23.320And that is the case of Ghislaine Maxwell, who had a juror on her panel who that was the one case I looked at.
01:19:30.320They always try to claim some juror did something.
01:19:32.320This was one where I was like, you know what? She actually might have this.
01:19:35.320But the judge disagreed with me because the juror had been like had suffered a sexual assault or some sort of abuse as a child was a male and didn't disclose it twice on the jury form and then used it in the deliberations to try to swing the verdict against her.
01:19:50.320If only I knew a lawyer who had a legal connection to Ghislaine Maxwell that I could ask about.
01:19:57.320Oh, oh, wait, he's been such a busy boy.
01:19:59.320Andrew Cuomo, all of the greatest people come into your life.
01:20:03.320And now you're you. Are you representing her?
01:20:05.320That's what Mark and I do. That's what we do.
01:20:07.320We do. But actually, that is it's a very, very, very big issue, especially since after the verdict, this juror bragged about the fact that he like swayed the whole jury pool, like the whole all of his fellow jurors saying, look, I went through this myself.
01:20:23.320And you know why you don't believe that witness? Well, let me tell you why you should believe that witness, because when I went through it, I felt the same way.
01:20:30.320And that's after swearing under oath on this form that that person was never a victim.
01:20:36.320I already said all that. I get to the fact of representing Ghislaine. Do you represent her?
01:20:40.320Yeah, we're writing her appeal as we speak. How's that going?
01:20:43.320Coming on screen because we're working on it right now.
01:20:46.320When you go in to meet her for the first time, do you ask the questions? Do you say, like, did you do it?
01:20:51.320I think Mark will agree. Not not when someone's been convicted already.
01:20:58.320There are plenty of Megan. Megan, we're not reporters.
01:21:01.320No, we don't. There's there's plenty of time. Could you just do it for me?
01:21:05.320If you want to get into it, there's plenty of clients first come into the office.
01:21:09.320I say something like, look, if you did this, don't have me poking around and making finding more evidence against you.
01:21:16.320You might want to let me know what's going on. And most of the time they come clean with me.
01:21:19.320And most of the time what Mark and I do, luckily, is represent people who have done something wrong and we mitigate it.
01:21:47.320Well, since you brought it up, she's been a wonderful client.
01:21:51.320She's a very intelligent woman who knows every word of every page of her transcript and has been very helpful in writing her appeal.
01:21:58.320As says Harvey Weinstein, he knows every word of every page of it.
01:22:02.320And he was very involved, Harvey Weinstein, in writing this appeal to the highest court here in the state of New York.
01:22:07.320I look forward to you setting up my interviews with both of them.
01:22:11.320Let's let's talk about let's talk about TJ Holmes and Amy Robach, who are now officially out at ABC News.
01:22:21.320They lost their jobs altogether. And before you say, oh, sad, they just fell in love.
01:22:26.320It happens outside of a marriage. And I understand all that.
01:22:29.320I think there is a very good reason why they lost their jobs.
01:22:33.320I think it was two things, the ridiculous PR behavior that they engaged in post the scandal breaking.
01:22:40.320They handled the media exactly the wrong way, in my view.
01:22:43.320And number two, it came out that he had all these other alleged affair partners at ABC.
01:22:50.320And you tell me, Arthur, because my position, my suspicion is they were in a position where what are you going to do?
01:22:56.320You're going to you're going to fire the the black anchor and you're going to let the white female stay.
01:23:03.320That can't happen. She had to go to even though that investigation appears to have only found her prior sins as being she had a bottle of liquor sealed in her office.
01:23:14.320And somebody claimed she showed up drunk after some sporting event on the air, which I don't believe either.
01:23:19.320But I bet you if you cast a wide net, you'd find 10 people who showed up drunk on the air at ABC at one point or another.
01:23:26.320If they're at will employees, I mean, we get people coming to our office about these questions that they could fire them for any reason they want.
01:23:34.320They definitely had contracts. They are not at will employees.
01:23:37.320They definitely can take them off. They can take them off the air.
01:23:40.320And yes, Megan, I have negotiated these for cause contracts and these the networks, they dig in so hard on basically firing them for cause is whatever the network kind of feels is for cause.
01:23:53.320They will not give you a definition. Does for cause mean it's someone who's been arrested?
01:23:57.320Does for cause mean someone who's been caught in an extramarital relationship?
01:24:00.320They keep it as general and as amorphous as they can.
01:24:03.320And as you saw the memo that was written by the head of ABC, who just said, basically, it was too much of a distraction internally for us and for the people inside ABC and externally.
01:24:14.320I do not see them winning a lawsuit, especially as you said, the way they handle the media afterwards.
01:24:19.320There's pictures of them smooching and she's jumping on them and all over the place.
01:24:24.320It's just that they didn't do anything to help themselves.
01:24:27.320They've got a fuel to the fire as opposed to putting the fire out.
01:24:31.320They did the disclosure. I'm friends with Amy. I think the world of her.
01:24:36.320I think that when you, the anchor, become the story, that's where it's problematic for the viewers.
01:24:43.320And I think that that's why they they let them go.
01:24:47.320They became the story. And it's hard to separate them talking about someone else's scandal when there's one to the viewers anyway.
01:24:56.320Right. Involving those to see, I have a strong thought on this.
01:24:59.320I have a very strong thought on this. I think those two could have come out.
01:25:03.320They could have said on the show that the next day, because they were on the air one day with the scandal having been broken by the Daily Mail.
01:25:10.320And they could have said, we are very embarrassed.
01:25:14.320It's true. This was a private matter that we wanted to resolve privately, given the fact that we have kids and we have spouses.
01:25:20.320But we couldn't, given the Daily Mail report.
01:25:24.320And we are going to take a leave of absence to to deal with this.
01:25:28.320And we hope that we can earn your forgiveness and trust when we come back.
01:25:31.320And then lay low. Stop with the very clearly orchestrated photo events in South Beach, where they were all over each other, kissing and fondling while their spouses, who they cheated on, are posting sad face pictures with their kids who look incredibly forlorn.
01:25:51.320That was a massive PR error. They 100 percent orchestrated it, in my opinion.
01:25:58.320And then I give you this. Even now, even now, there's this picture broken.
01:26:02.320It's on page six of the two that she's after the news that they're they're out at ABC.
01:30:19.320And quite frankly, I can't debate either of you when you pull the kid card.
01:30:22.320You know, there's no excuse when you when you're picturing these sweet, innocent kids, however old they are, you know, seeing mommy on South Beach parading around.