The Megyn Kelly Show - Rahm Emanuel on How the Dems Lost Their Way and Trump's Immigration Successes, Plus, Mark Halperin, Link Lauren and Dan Turrentine ｜ Ep. 1112

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00:01:01.320 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:01:12.620 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show,

00:01:15.480 coming to you live today from the SiriusXM headquarters in New York City.

00:01:19.460 We are only six months into President Trump's historic second term,

00:01:23.540 but that has not stopped speculation about who's going to run for president in 2028.

00:01:29.200 I gave a speech, as you guys know, last week out in Vail and everyone there wanted to know

00:01:35.220 who's the likely next Republican and who's the likely next Dem.

00:01:39.220 I don't have a crystal ball, but I keep seeing the same names you guys are seeing.

00:01:43.300 And over on Team Blue, one name keeps coming up is Rahm Emanuel.

00:01:49.180 Okay?

00:01:49.560 He's the former Chicago mayor.

00:01:51.160 He was Obama's one-time White House chief of staff.

00:01:54.320 He certainly has a top-shelf political resume and is deeply connected to the Democrats' massive

00:01:59.080 fundraising operation.

00:02:00.640 And unlike some of the loons over on the other side, he's a centrist.

00:02:05.720 He's an actual centrist.

00:02:07.420 We've talked about his potential candidacy many times here on The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:02:12.280 Is he too centrist for his party?

00:02:15.140 He's made a lot of enemies inside the Democratic Party over the years,

00:02:18.240 and we'll ask him about how that might affect his potential chances.

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00:03:31.980 Joining me now to discuss his life and career and future potential political career is Rahm Emanuel.

00:03:39.020 Rahm, welcome.

00:03:39.760 Thank you.

00:03:40.220 Great to have you.

00:03:40.980 Thanks for having me.

00:03:41.860 So what are you doing here on the Megyn Kelly Show?

00:03:44.020 I got a free hour.

00:03:45.100 I thought I'd just come by, swing by.

00:03:46.860 I thought there was lunch.

00:03:47.960 I thought we were going to have brunch or something.

00:03:50.020 There will be.

00:03:50.380 We'll have ice cream.

00:03:51.220 We'll have bonbons.

00:03:52.040 To talk about the issues.

00:03:53.040 Talk about things.

00:03:53.960 But you, you know, a lot of Democrats won't come on this show because they don't want to talk to somebody like me.

00:03:59.060 So why would you?

00:04:00.000 Well, I mean, you kind of started it because you've brought me up before.

00:04:04.220 And I thought, well, if you're going to bring me up a couple of times, I'll come on the show.

00:04:07.620 Since my favorite subject is me, I thought I'd do that.

00:04:11.120 No, but to talk about things.

00:04:12.480 And, you know, you say from Team Blue, which is fair.

00:04:15.820 I get that.

00:04:16.740 But, you know, I think you would agree.

00:04:19.060 And I think your listeners would.

00:04:20.440 There's Team USA before there's Team Blue and Team Red.

00:04:23.440 I know.

00:04:23.720 We see everything through the political lens.

00:04:25.600 Yeah.

00:04:25.900 Just because that's what we do.

00:04:26.800 So that's why.

00:04:27.600 And, you know, people have opinions.

00:04:29.340 I'm going to talk about what I think and also, you know, kind of just rip the mask off.

00:04:34.060 All right.

00:04:34.220 Let's start with this because, you know, I came of age as a reporter at Fox News and my show.

00:04:40.700 There's a 10-step program for that.

00:04:43.160 I'm not looking to recover, though.

00:04:44.880 There were some years where I was.

00:04:47.300 And my friend Sean Hannity used to refer to you every night as Rom Deadfish Emanuel.

00:04:52.940 And there is a story behind that.

00:04:54.900 Yeah.

00:04:55.280 What happened?

00:04:56.560 Okay.

00:04:56.900 So you got to.

00:04:58.140 I don't know how much time, but I'll cycle it fast.

00:05:00.240 It's good.

00:05:00.500 1988 chair.

00:05:02.080 I'm political director of the Democratic Congressional Campaign.

00:05:04.780 Political.

00:05:06.680 And it's the presidential year.

00:05:08.860 George Walsh.

00:05:09.760 Kemp seat upstate New York.

00:05:11.260 We have this.

00:05:12.580 Those are my people.

00:05:13.240 Yeah.

00:05:13.640 Dave Schwartz, clerk of the county.

00:05:18.420 And he said that if he gets within a single digit, he's going to take a second mortgage.

00:05:21.820 We go from 36 down, 24 down, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:05:25.520 And then all of a sudden a poll comes back.

00:05:27.200 And it was, you know, five polls in a row.

00:05:29.240 He's just four or five points, six points, narrowing it, narrowing it.

00:05:32.620 And it blows up 18.

00:05:35.180 And about four.

00:05:36.940 And so he says, forget about it.

00:05:38.100 It's like nine days out.

00:05:39.100 Wait, wait, refresh me.

00:05:39.820 Who's winning and who's losing?

00:05:40.720 The Republicans winning.

00:05:41.700 The Republicans winning, but the Democrats closing in consistently over two months.

00:05:45.360 Okay.

00:05:45.640 He's closing the gap.

00:05:47.540 And then goes, blows back out 18 points.

00:05:52.780 And the campaign manager figures out that the pollster had pulled the wrong group.

00:05:59.620 Oh, gosh.

00:05:59.900 And obviously we weren't going to win a lot of races, but to symbolically win in 1988, Jack

00:06:05.000 Kemp's seat would have bigger, bigger than a single district.

00:06:08.840 They would have big national import.

00:06:10.420 And it was too late then with seven days to go to really impact Dave Schwartz goes on to lose by a few points in a presidential year.

00:06:20.140 So myself and a number of people sent the Democratic pollster a dead fish for costing us a seat.

00:06:27.520 And I happened to sign it out.

00:06:29.060 It was great working with you, et cetera.

00:06:30.520 So the pollster comes back after two weeks.

00:06:34.980 The dead fish was in a box.

00:06:36.620 Oh, God.

00:06:36.880 And opens it up, stinking, da-da-da-da, sends me this long, eight-page, single-spaced letter of how horrible it was working for me.

00:06:45.640 And then this moment in time becomes kind of mythological of that.

00:06:52.160 Yes.

00:06:52.260 So that's where-

00:06:52.860 Did you like it?

00:06:53.680 Did you like the reputation or you don't like it?

00:06:56.700 It's, you know, like all things.

00:06:58.620 Not you, just because you work at Fox doesn't capture who you are.

00:07:01.260 It doesn't capture who I am.

00:07:03.660 When it comes to my kids, I'm quick to a tear.

00:07:06.020 You wouldn't know that.

00:07:07.100 When it comes to other people's kids, I'm also quick to a tear.

00:07:09.720 I get very emotional.

00:07:10.580 My kids always say, you're not allowed to talk about us, grandpa or dad.

00:07:14.640 And on the other hand, I did it.

00:07:16.860 So I own it.

00:07:17.620 And I did do it because he cost us a seat because he was, he made a mistake.

00:07:21.880 And I'm unmerciful in that sense when it came to winning.

00:07:25.300 Well, this is probably why I was saying-

00:07:27.440 And that may be also, not to interrupt you.

00:07:28.700 No, go ahead.

00:07:29.800 This is your show after all, is I'm a middle child.

00:07:33.080 And I always joke, the middle children wrote a book, War or Peace.

00:07:36.540 We could do either one.

00:07:38.120 But I think this is actually to your advantage in capturing this nomination, because I think

00:07:43.420 the country likes a strong man, even though we were kind of pretending we didn't for a

00:07:48.040 while.

00:07:48.680 And I think Democrats are in need of a strong man.

00:07:53.000 I mean, I think too many in the party have gone along with the like, no, we have to be,

00:07:57.720 you know, everyone's toxically masculine and we have to overcorrect the other way.

00:08:02.460 Yeah, I still don't, I don't know the words to kumbaya.

00:08:05.260 So here's my, my thing is, one is when I'm having work for both President Clinton and President

00:08:11.060 Obama.

00:08:13.020 And if you look at it, and also an avid reader of presidential history, history, and in

00:08:16.840 general, there are three qualities of president and a presidential candidate have to project

00:08:21.100 strength, confidence, and optimism.

00:08:22.620 Nobody, if you look at history, Kennedy versus Nixon, just go through it, we never nominate

00:08:27.780 the weaker or the more indecisive or the less optimistic, just full blown.

00:08:34.400 Second, and then that's on a comparative basis.

00:08:38.340 And second, winning is important.

00:08:42.280 And I do think there's a currency in our party, and this is my theory of the case, at least,

00:08:47.860 where both candor, authenticity, and strength have a currency and have a blame.

00:08:55.620 I might, I kind of say that, and then there was an article the other day, and it's, I forgot

00:08:59.800 what paper was, either the Washington Post or Politico, that said Democrats were studying

00:09:04.380 authenticity.

00:09:05.240 Well, you can't study authenticity, right?

00:09:07.280 That's such a kind of like, what's wrong?

00:09:10.500 You can't manufacture your authenticity.

00:09:13.240 You either are who you are or you're not, and I'm comfortable with who I am.

00:09:15.720 They're studying, too, how to speak to young men.

00:09:18.220 Yeah, yeah.

00:09:19.160 Do you know why they're doing that?

00:09:20.660 Well, one is, there's a simple, they've lost it with young men for a whole host of

00:09:27.880 reasons.

00:09:28.380 And the other thing is because, for, you date your time there, I'd say, basically COVID

00:09:33.780 forward, maybe even a little before that, our party had everybody, including ourselves,

00:09:39.480 walking on eggshells.

00:09:40.380 Like, it was so PC, you couldn't even, God forbid you had thought privately to yourself,

00:09:45.780 and you were scared and jumped, and literally you had this kind of flinch all the time.

00:09:49.620 And that's ridiculous.

00:09:50.980 And people didn't, and not just young men, it was also, if you look at the data, even

00:09:54.680 young women were tired of basically just a PC-type thinking and talking about stuff, and

00:10:00.880 also this idea that you had to walk on eggshells.

00:10:03.220 But the truth is, Republicans have the same kind of thing where people jump on them all

00:10:08.140 the time, et cetera, inside their own party.

00:10:11.040 It's not, they're not PC, though.

00:10:12.880 It's for different issues.

00:10:14.200 You know, I mean, if you criticize President Trump within the Republican Party, depending

00:10:17.360 on who you're talking to, you get blowback.

00:10:19.100 Though I think the Republicans are more fractured and always have been than Democrats.

00:10:22.860 It's always, I feel like Democrats stick together.

00:10:25.000 You know, we both admire the other parties' sense of loyalty.

00:10:29.000 So you feel like Democrats are more fractured internally, in general, as a group, than

00:10:34.120 Republicans are?

00:10:34.940 Well, it's kind of Mark Twain's original, I'm a part of no organized party, I'm a Democrat.

00:10:40.240 Look, I think Democrats, as you can see recently, have a little bit of a firing squad in the

00:10:45.440 circle.

00:10:46.040 Take a look recently, people, you can say whatever you want, and I have my disagreements, a lot

00:10:50.600 of them, countless with President Trump, but he has brought us a level of discipline and

00:10:55.100 loyalty.

00:10:55.400 Take a look at this.

00:10:56.180 On the big, beautiful bill, which I have my own criticisms of, people have voted for

00:11:02.340 something they criticize, and now, as soon as they've done it, they're trying to earbrush

00:11:05.600 the record, take a look at Senator Hawley.

00:11:07.340 He's now introduced, trying to eliminate all the Medicaid cuts that he just voted for.

00:11:10.840 That was a big deal for him.

00:11:11.320 So has the president brought loyalty?

00:11:13.800 There's an example, A, of what kind of loyalty he's brought.

00:11:16.400 Do you feel like the Dems have changed on the over-the-top PC language police?

00:11:21.420 I mean, has that trickled down?

00:11:22.520 I know you care deeply about education.

00:11:23.860 And that's trickled down into my kids' single-digit education all the way up through high school.

00:11:29.120 Well, some elements, yes, and some elements, this is what does, when you get to education,

00:11:36.140 well, I mean, to me, you know, at another point in my life, early before I decided to

00:11:40.680 go into public service or politics, I was going to be an early childhood educator.

00:11:44.840 That's what interested me.

00:11:46.100 My dad was a pediatrician.

00:11:47.180 It was something that drew me.

00:11:48.940 And there is this kind of, you know, the fundamentals of education we have missed.

00:11:55.660 We now have the worst reading scores in 30 years, the worst math scores, and we're focused

00:11:59.340 on everything but the most important thing, which is why you have three children.

00:12:04.280 I have three children.

00:12:05.260 Why parents send kids to school to support the type of education we also try to do at home.

00:12:09.100 And we've gotten focused, as I said, on things like bathroom access rather than classroom

00:12:14.980 excellence.

00:12:15.720 We've gotten focused, and I'm sensitive, to one person's pronoun versus the other 35 kids

00:12:22.120 in the class that don't know what a pronoun is.

00:12:24.020 And I'm sorry, 35 kids not knowing what a pronoun is, having your worst reading scores

00:12:28.700 and math scores in 30 years, we have a crisis on hand.

00:12:32.400 Going back to Ronald Reagan's time where Bloom wrote the report, A Nation at Crisis, we're

00:12:37.980 back to where we started, and we better focus on the priority.

00:12:40.940 This is tomorrow.

00:12:42.300 These are our kids.

00:12:44.000 And I do think, not just Democrats, but everybody, from the naming of a school to bathroom access

00:12:49.800 to who's playing in what sports.

00:12:53.480 And the fundamental, we've lost sight of, you know, the forest for the trees.

00:12:58.300 And I think that's really, and we're supposed to be the adults and take care of our kids

00:13:03.040 and nurture them.

00:13:04.000 Oh, I don't disagree.

00:13:04.760 We need to work on the basic reading and math scores.

00:13:08.680 But I feel like the Democrats are the ones who introduce things like pronouns and the

00:13:13.160 bathroom access.

00:13:14.640 And those of us on what I call the side of sanity stood up to say, no, you're not putting your

00:13:20.880 six foot tall boy in my daughter's eighth grade soccer class or gym, gym class.

00:13:28.300 And that doesn't make me the one trying to ignore what's important about math and reading.

00:13:33.800 It's a Democrat-created problem.

00:13:36.060 Well, let me back you up a little.

00:13:39.240 Not wrong about those examples.

00:13:42.020 And we have a, and I want to say one thing here, and I do a shout out for Mississippi.

00:13:46.540 It's called the Mississippi Miracle.

00:13:48.260 Ten years ago, they started this.

00:13:49.800 Very tough demographics.

00:13:51.300 They're reading excellence.

00:13:53.000 Unbelievable.

00:13:53.940 Alabama on math.

00:13:55.260 And I would nationalize that.

00:13:56.640 I would say we're taking this at large because they've shown with some of the toughest

00:14:01.120 constituencies, poor kids, children from single-parent homes, black kids, to make major gains in

00:14:09.540 both math and reading.

00:14:11.760 That's A.

00:14:12.540 B, yes, Democrats played a role.

00:14:14.700 But there's also politicization, culture wars by Republicans on what topics we're allowed

00:14:19.720 to talk about, how we're allowed to talk about them.

00:14:21.820 Do I think Democrats led that in kind of this whole pronoun debate?

00:14:25.100 No doubt.

00:14:26.520 And that's why they basically, and it's gotten us sidetracked.

00:14:29.520 And we're stuck in a cold, not only a party, but more importantly, a country.

00:14:33.140 And it's why, I'll be honest, I have my own view on what I would do on education.

00:14:37.920 I call it, tired if I could.

00:14:40.740 T for technology.

00:14:42.300 And we should get kids ready with AI capabilities.

00:14:45.840 A for attendance.

00:14:47.000 We have a massive post-COVID attendance problem.

00:14:51.140 It's triple digits from where it was.

00:14:52.800 And I would have a national, more than 7%, you repeat the client.

00:14:57.220 And absenteeism in a lot of the big cities is up to 30% right now.

00:15:00.240 You have kids graduating high school with a 20% absentee rate.

00:15:03.840 That means they're not graduating.

00:15:04.840 They don't have the skills to go on to college, and it's going to be remedial education.

00:15:07.620 We're pretending.

00:15:08.520 Right.

00:15:08.700 Like R for reading and using the Mississippi example to blow it up nationally, take it to every state. 0.79

00:15:15.460 And T for truth.

00:15:17.100 Parents should know where their kids are every grade level on national standards and where their kids' schools are at meeting those national levels for every grade.

00:15:26.520 To me, if you do that type of thing, we can start to focus again on the most important thing.

00:15:32.400 Why I as a parent of three, why you as a parent of three, why a parent of two, one, whatever.

00:15:37.220 Or send those kids to school.

00:15:39.080 That's why parents move, like I say, as a mayor of the city of Chicago.

00:15:42.780 You know how you knew a neighborhood was doing well?

00:15:45.780 On the real estate forum, they would say they're here in this school district.

00:15:49.500 That meant that school district became a magnet for that area.

00:15:53.180 And to me, that's the most important thing because we live in a time where you earn what you learn.

00:15:59.580 And we need to ensure that every child has a chance to live up to their potential.

00:16:03.200 So, and it only, it starts at school, but I would also, I used to, I fundamentally believe this now.

00:16:10.900 There are three doors a child walks through that will explain their future.

00:16:16.120 The front door of the home, the front door of the school, and the front door of the place of worship.

00:16:21.440 And if those three doors are aligned, I don't care your zip code, I don't care your family background, I don't care your income.

00:16:27.220 Well, that child's got a future.

00:16:30.260 You know, I love hearing that.

00:16:32.460 And I think we need to get back to that kind of a focus.

00:16:34.420 I just, I have my doubts because my own experience has been with a, you know, a rising, as they say, about to go into sixth grade, ninth grade, and 10th grade-ers.

00:16:46.760 There's just been so much ideological nonsense shoved down their throats.

00:16:50.320 And we came out of New York City privates.

00:16:52.120 That's, that's where we were up until we fled in 2021 to get away from that and move to Connecticut.

00:16:56.880 But it was so over the top, Rom.

00:16:59.400 I mean, you want them to focus on reading.

00:17:01.420 Now, obviously, New York City private schools are elite schools.

00:17:03.540 They don't have to worry about reading scores and math generally there.

00:17:06.240 But my point is, in these schools, my boys' school, they took three weeks to devote to transgenderism.

00:17:12.740 Three weeks at an all-boys' school trying to get these boys to spend time on whether you're sure you're a boy,

00:17:18.580 might you not be totally sure, raise your fist, five if you're totally sure, four if you're only a little.

00:17:24.800 I mean, it was crazy showing them videos of men and boys and skirts and dresses and makeup.

00:17:31.280 Crazy indoctrination.

00:17:33.280 And it's not just New York City, you know?

00:17:34.900 So it's like, to me, it's so much more than a culture war.

00:17:37.740 You're messing with a child's mental health when you're doing it.

00:17:40.080 It's abusive.

00:17:41.200 There's, look, again, I'm going to get back the three doors.

00:17:45.360 Your kids are going to be okay.

00:17:46.420 They come from a loving, I don't know you, they come from a loving home, and they have the support.

00:17:51.780 They, basically, school backs up the education of a child, which is my one, if I can't take a side note.

00:17:58.020 I totally hate this term, homeschooled.

00:18:01.980 Every child's homeschooled.

00:18:03.800 Every child.

00:18:04.940 It's a horrible term because it assumes that, no, every child's homeschooled.

00:18:08.820 The school reinforces the capabilities that the home nurtures.

00:18:12.540 And the other door, the place of worship, which is important for a child's total character development.

00:18:18.760 Very true.

00:18:19.380 Okay.

00:18:19.760 Now, was and is and does it continue cultural wars?

00:18:24.340 Yeah, it does.

00:18:26.380 I happen to think it happens on both sides.

00:18:28.620 That's the way I look at it, et cetera.

00:18:30.540 Things that are like topics like slavery that are totally kind of trying to be earbrushed out of history books.

00:18:36.340 That's a cultural war.

00:18:37.360 You may not see it the same.

00:18:38.700 I think you do.

00:18:39.840 The fact is, we teach kids, and we should basically focus on the fundamentals and get back to the fundamentals.

00:18:46.920 I do think, as it relates to, and I did this as mayor, 2016, ambassador I worked with, you've got an issue, and you're working through on your pronoun, et cetera.

00:18:57.600 I respect that.

00:18:59.320 I come from an inclusive kind of culture.

00:19:02.060 But it is not the preoccupation for the rest of the class.

00:19:07.600 The rest, the preoccupation for the class.

00:19:09.200 So you want the schools to stop pushing that stuff.

00:19:11.480 Yeah.

00:19:11.880 Here's my thing.

00:19:13.080 I get, look, in 2016, I signed and passed the ordinance to the city council as it relates to bathroom access.

00:19:19.320 But my focus as mayor was on graduation rates.

00:19:21.780 But in that, just to be clear, in that you were on the side of the trans people having access to the bathroom of choice.

00:19:27.240 Yeah, we dealt with that.

00:19:28.980 It was an issue.

00:19:29.600 I'll give you that Trump was also on that same side back in 2016, but has changed.

00:19:35.200 Have you changed?

00:19:36.180 No, my position, no, not from an inclusive standpoint.

00:19:39.480 My point is, though, it's not the dominant issue.

00:19:42.500 I get it.

00:19:43.080 And so to me.

00:19:44.540 But to a lot of us, it's really important.

00:19:46.300 I get that.

00:19:46.960 And you'll make choices.

00:19:48.120 Well, that's why I'm trying to nail you down on where you are.

00:19:50.360 I got what you're trying to do, and I'm trying to be the ballet dancer I was.

00:19:54.000 I know.

00:19:54.920 But you know, if you're going to really run for this position.

00:19:57.280 No, but here's the thing.

00:19:57.980 You're going to have to take a position on it.

00:19:59.320 Here's the thing.

00:19:59.700 I'll give you an example.

00:20:00.580 When I was an ambassador to Japan, trans people working in an embassy, we worked on what our job was.

00:20:07.980 That wasn't the focus.

00:20:09.960 I respected what you made a choice, and also they're an adult.

00:20:12.900 You're talking about kids.

00:20:13.660 Slightly very different.

00:20:14.640 Very, very different.

00:20:15.340 And a parent has a right to speak up at the school about this.

00:20:18.580 My point, though, on this whole subject, though, Megan, we are talking about – let's give you an example.

00:20:25.400 We're spending now, I don't know, eight minutes on this.

00:20:28.240 There's 50 million kids.

00:20:29.480 That's only because you won't give me a straight answer.

00:20:31.000 We can move on if you give me a straight answer.

00:20:32.040 Let me give you – let me give you – I'll give you a rapid fire. 1.00

00:20:34.820 If our kids go to public schools – to schools in elementary education in America, we're talking about 0.01 percent.

00:20:42.520 Okay.

00:20:43.320 I get it.

00:20:44.000 But I know people –

00:20:45.100 I don't think –

00:20:45.600 But I know people who have been hurt by the boys who are participating in the sports and so on.

00:20:51.180 And they matter.

00:20:51.800 As a father of both a son and two girls, they are fundamentally physically different.

00:20:57.700 And we have to – that's just biology.

00:20:59.920 You can get that.

00:21:00.700 Okay, so –

00:21:01.580 And as it relates to sports.

00:21:02.420 So let me just ask you a couple things quickly.

00:21:04.040 So do you believe boys should be able to play in girls' sports?

00:21:07.380 Do you believe that –

00:21:08.360 Is this the round robin?

00:21:09.600 Yeah, we'll do a quick rapid fire. 0.92

00:21:11.240 And then we can move past this.

00:21:12.260 Okay.

00:21:12.800 Do you believe that kids under the age of 18 should be able to be put on puberty blockers and then cross-sex hormones?

00:21:18.680 I think parents have to make that decision themselves.

00:21:21.500 I think that is too – a child is too young at 18 to make that decision.

00:21:26.460 It has to be made with a family and that choice.

00:21:28.920 I think before somebody makes a life decision, they have to think twice about that.

00:21:33.480 So you disagree then with the Tim Walz policy in Minnesota where a child who doesn't get affirmed by his parents can go into Minnesota and get jurisdiction there and get the parental decision overruled?

00:21:43.540 Yeah.

00:21:43.880 Look, I think these are life decisions.

00:21:46.600 And I'm also slightly both – I have two minds – not two minds, but two strains that influence an opinion.

00:21:52.840 One, this is a life decision and a child can't make that decision.

00:21:59.560 You have to have some moral development and character and judgment and foundation for that.

00:22:04.680 Two, parents have to be involved in that and I think that's for them to make – I don't think the public should be in that space.

00:22:12.740 What if – I mean there are some parents out there who are completely whacked in the head.

00:22:16.920 There really are.

00:22:17.600 They're not all –

00:22:18.240 Well, that's not news, is it?

00:22:19.720 But it's –

00:22:20.160 It's not just –

00:22:20.720 No.

00:22:21.220 No, it's not news.

00:22:21.960 But to me it's terrifying because –

00:22:23.220 Look, I – and the other – and I left this out, but I want to repeat it is I have a son and two daughters and they are physically different.

00:22:32.280 And that's why when it comes to sports –

00:22:34.500 Why did all the Democrats bail off of that point?

00:22:36.800 The couple came out right after the election and they said what you just said and then they got browbeaten and then they started to walk about.

00:22:42.040 The answer is in the question.

00:22:44.000 I mean that's not ever scared me.

00:22:45.740 And, you know, I used to say this to President Clinton and President Obama.

00:22:48.580 Sound is not always fury.

00:22:50.640 Sometimes it's just sound.

00:22:51.940 And don't assume just because somebody is screaming at you they represent more than their own voice.

00:22:56.680 Ken, should we be putting men in female prisons? 0.99

00:23:00.140 Men claiming they're women. 0.75

00:23:01.780 No.

00:23:03.300 And, all right, here's my last one for you.

00:23:05.560 Can a man become a woman? 1.00

00:23:08.520 Can a man become a woman? 1.00

00:23:11.060 Not – no.

00:23:12.380 Thank you.

00:23:13.360 No.

00:23:13.940 That's so easy.

00:23:14.860 Why don't more people in your party just say that?

00:23:17.000 Because I'm now going to go into a witness protection plan.

00:23:21.780 My money's on you.

00:23:23.400 I think you'll be fine.

00:23:25.020 No, it's just so nice to hear the truth said.

00:23:27.460 Okay, we spent too much time on this.

00:23:28.780 Without qualifications.

00:23:29.720 Yeah, well, it just can't happen.

00:23:32.040 Let's talk about –

00:23:32.880 I'm not saying medically.

00:23:33.960 I'm just saying it can't happen.

00:23:35.200 I got it.

00:23:35.620 Right.

00:23:36.080 Let's talk about our cities.

00:23:38.180 Okay.

00:23:38.400 And NAFTA because I know you were – you had a role in NAFTA.

00:23:42.660 And NAFTA has become so controversial now, this North American Free Trade Agreement that

00:23:46.100 had the net result of shipping a bunch of American manufacturing jobs overseas or down

00:23:51.460 to Mexico.

00:23:52.760 And it's become super controversial with both parties.

00:23:55.740 You can look back and find, you know, in-depth articles in the New York Times and, of course,

00:23:59.900 over on National Review and the Wall Street Journal about what this has done to American

00:24:03.260 manufacturing, my friend Tucker and many others have made this like a central plank that they

00:24:10.480 want in discussions, which is how bad American cities have become, you know, how you step

00:24:15.600 out of the train station, Union Station in Washington, and you're stepping over homeless

00:24:21.040 people.

00:24:21.420 You know, I went out for a premiere of a TV show in L.A., literally stepping over homeless

00:24:26.520 encampments just to get to the building, like open-air drug markets in some cities in

00:24:31.300 California and further north in the Pacific Northwest.

00:24:34.080 Here in New York City, you know, you've got human excrement on the street.

00:24:37.140 You've got trash cans constantly overflowing.

00:24:40.060 And she –

00:24:40.840 That's why New York needs L.A.s like Chicago.

00:24:43.080 Chicago.

00:24:43.440 Don't even get started.

00:24:44.740 Okay.

00:24:44.820 Listen, Chicago had a heyday.

00:24:46.160 I lived there.

00:24:46.720 I was there for five years under Mayor Daley.

00:24:48.240 Um, it's – those are – those days are behind it.

00:24:51.180 But this is my principal question to you, okay, because Tucker and many others will use

00:24:55.640 that as an opening to say, and therefore, why are we giving money to Ukraine?

00:24:58.760 And I get that point.

00:24:59.920 But I think, you know, there's another question to be asked, which is, does it have to do with

00:25:05.340 federal money at all?

00:25:06.120 Is this condition of our cities really to blame on the feds, or is it to blame on Democrat

00:25:11.760 mayors in those cities and decisions like NAFTA that outshipped all the jobs that kept

00:25:17.320 them driving?

00:25:17.380 So let's go – you've got like seven questions there, so let me try to peel through all eight

00:25:21.360 answers.

00:25:21.900 Okay.

00:25:23.020 One, first let me give a shout-out that's being lost in the national debate to cities.

00:25:29.680 We're on course right now, and I talked to the mayor of Baltimore, Birmingham, Lower

00:25:33.980 Rock, and Cleveland in the resume, probably the lowest homicide rate in recorded history.

00:25:39.960 Baltimore's experienced the lowest homicide rate right now since 1968.

00:25:44.600 So while they're –

00:25:45.360 How's Chicago doing?

00:25:45.880 Chicago's also a reduction also.

00:25:47.820 Oh, but come on. 0.51

00:25:48.800 Wait, no, wait a second.

00:25:49.600 No, wait.

00:25:49.980 Look, I'm with you on homeless.

00:25:52.860 I get the open drug market.

00:25:54.460 Nobody's been more spoken about that, and you can go through my tenure.

00:25:59.040 But that doesn't obscure or brush out.

00:26:03.020 And I disagree with you on this one point, that crime is on both homicide rates, violent, and

00:26:09.400 also property crimes on historic lows.

00:26:11.920 It's a fact that's happening.

00:26:13.760 They said that last year, and it was debunked by the FBI.

00:26:16.080 No, the FBI numbers.

00:26:17.800 Just – anyway, you can look at the – we're going to – you and I are going to disagree

00:26:21.300 to disagree on this one.

00:26:22.260 It is on course for historic low levels.

00:26:27.360 Now, as it relates to homeless encampments, I think municipalities, mayors have been way

00:26:34.060 too permissive in a culture.

00:26:37.600 As it relates also to drug markets, way too permissive in a culture, not just for businesses,

00:26:43.220 but most importantly for families and for children.

00:26:46.440 Giving out needles.

00:26:47.080 And I think that the example of mayor in San – at least what I've read, the mayor in

00:26:52.040 San Francisco, I think, has got now the right approach to how to handle both of these issues.

00:26:56.340 And it's also pretty clear.

00:26:57.840 I can say this as – I was ambassador to Japan, came back for the Asia-Pacific Conference

00:27:02.380 in San Francisco.

00:27:03.260 When a city wants to clear out homelessness, all of a sudden it happens when you have a bunch

00:27:07.200 of foreign dignitaries.

00:27:08.300 So when their own residents want it, you should actually be as vigilant as you were when foreign 1.00

00:27:12.860 dignitaries come.

00:27:13.620 Well, and you tell me Japan doesn't have this problem in its cities.

00:27:16.640 That's a – they also have a different type of social system and a different – that's

00:27:21.280 a longer conversation than when this show permits.

00:27:23.780 Second piece, and I would just not have a permissive culture in that.

00:27:28.000 And Portland has now realized the wrongs of their ways, parts of Seattle.

00:27:32.480 Well, you cannot allow a zone for open, quote-unquote, drug markets.

00:27:38.160 It then becomes a permission slip to a whole host of other type of social and criminal aspects.

00:27:44.440 So that's a massive don't go there.

00:27:48.140 Now, two things that I think are really important.

00:27:51.200 One is, I think there was – as the president himself kept basically the structures of NAFTA

00:27:58.100 and after the – by the end of President Clinton's term, just a fact, there were 300,000

00:28:03.080 more manufacturing jobs than when he came in.

00:28:05.780 Now, I think there was a mistake made, and no doubt about it.

00:28:09.620 You can't leave Peoria, Battle Creek, Racine, Kenosha to confront on their own.

00:28:17.340 There was not enough support, not enough investment.

00:28:19.140 America has always succeed, always succeed when you invest both in America and Americans.

00:28:24.940 That's why I'm big about education, big about the investments in technology and in our strengths.

00:28:30.060 The bigger challenge, I would say, is not so much NAFTA, but is what happened with China.

00:28:36.660 That's where you really had a fundamental and big swaths of America were left basically to

00:28:45.000 fend for themselves against the PRC, the Chinese Communist Party, and their strategy.

00:28:49.700 And that's where you've seen the devastation.

00:28:52.600 Now, do I think everything should be cleaned up?

00:28:55.020 You've learned certain things after a certain point vis-a-vis NAFTA, et cetera.

00:28:59.000 I do.

00:29:01.040 Both parties have kept it in place, the basic structure, because it's better to have,

00:29:05.600 as Ronald Reagan said, two neighbors that are allies working with you, because that's

00:29:09.820 a large economy and also brings the capacity to focus on other parts of the world.

00:29:14.860 Second, though, China coming into the WTO without all of us hoping they would stay as strategic

00:29:22.240 competitors, not realizing that President Xi in 2012 decided that China was going to become

00:29:27.440 a strategic adversary.

00:29:28.920 And that unchecked, as you can see right now, both with the United States and the European

00:29:33.700 Union dealing with China, that is where we've had a major devastation to the United States. 1.00

00:29:38.820 So what would you say to men in those cities like Detroit wondering where their manufacturing

00:29:44.100 job went?

00:29:45.080 What's the Rahm Emanuel plan to bring it back?

00:29:47.140 Well, one is build, baby, build.

00:29:50.480 And my basic point is when we are short right now, not tomorrow, not looking to the future,

00:29:55.820 which we are also short, massive amount of investment in carpenters, electricians, plumbers,

00:30:03.500 operating engineers, the whole building trade.

00:30:05.660 You can't AI that away and you can't get it to China.

00:30:08.460 How do we do that?

00:30:09.360 Like, yeah, I'm going to tell you one thing.

00:30:10.720 High school level?

00:30:11.180 Yeah, I'm going to tell you one thing we did in Chicago that I think should be a national

00:30:15.420 program.

00:30:16.480 And you have to hire career counselors, et cetera.

00:30:20.280 You could not get, we made it a requirement starting your freshman year, we gave you support.

00:30:25.020 You could not get your high school diploma without showing a letter of acceptance from

00:30:31.300 either a college, community college, a branch of the armed forces or a vocational school.

00:30:35.380 You had not just the Kelly children and the Emanuel children, but every child had to have 0.99

00:30:40.160 a post high school plan.

00:30:41.660 We changed the high school from a diploma driven to a career college driven.

00:30:45.860 And what comes next?

00:30:47.820 There, you ensure that every child can invest.

00:30:51.780 And let me say one side note.

00:30:53.600 If you look at the American history, there are three great periods of economic growth,

00:30:58.040 all underpinned by one thing.

00:31:00.840 There's the land grant colleges under Lincoln.

00:31:03.460 There are the universal high school education turn of century and the GI Bill.

00:31:08.820 You could also add probably a fourth NASA in the science and engineering and basic STEM as a

00:31:13.140 challenge to Sputnik.

00:31:14.820 When you invest in Americans, America succeeds. 0.89

00:31:17.600 Just to be clear, just to be clear, because there's a lot of my audience, understandably,

00:31:21.500 has questions about whether the modern day college education is a worthwhile thing.

00:31:25.460 I didn't say college.

00:31:26.240 I said college, community college.

00:31:27.580 I know.

00:31:27.960 Branch of Armed Forces.

00:31:28.940 Let me finish the question.

00:31:30.300 So I wanted to pick up on the last thing you said, which is vocational education.

00:31:33.420 Yeah.

00:31:33.640 So what would that look like?

00:31:34.500 Like how to fix cars, how to go to beauty school.

00:31:38.140 Everything from carpentry, electrician, operating engineer, bricklaying, painting.

00:31:45.020 Can you do it in high school?

00:31:46.280 Like in my high school in upstate New York, we had the BOCES program.

00:31:49.700 And you could actually do that in your ninth through twelfth grade education.

00:31:52.220 We created a high school in Chicago for exactly that.

00:31:55.400 And you also, one of the things we did in our community colleges, we had dual credit,

00:31:59.980 dual enrollment.

00:32:00.420 So we brought community college classes into high schools and kids went from high school

00:32:04.460 back to the community college.

00:32:06.340 A lot of the community colleges had carpentry.

00:32:08.500 They had electrical.

00:32:10.320 That'd be amazing because we need it.

00:32:11.860 But it's a requirement to get your own high school diploma.

00:32:15.900 Your kids are going to know because they grew up in your home.

00:32:19.280 High school is just one step.

00:32:21.900 They're going to know where, if you ask your children, where are you going to be in four

00:32:24.760 years or whatever, they have a plan.

00:32:26.500 I just got to be honest, in the city of Chicago, which is true across the country, not just

00:32:30.100 Chicago, some kids, four weeks is their plan, not four years.

00:32:34.860 And making them think past high school, making it a requirement, stepping in where it's not

00:32:40.660 having at home, socializing this idea starting your freshman year is essential.

00:32:44.860 That's number one.

00:32:46.020 Number two, I happen to think investing dramatically in the most promising technologies of tomorrow

00:32:53.040 ensures that America stays competitive.

00:32:55.540 And so that's part of not only you've got to build these data centers, you've got to

00:33:00.660 build the submarines that we need to confront China.

00:33:03.140 And we don't have that capacity.

00:33:06.000 We're not even really thinking about it.

00:33:07.560 No, we're not thinking about it.

00:33:08.660 We're not investing in it.

00:33:09.780 And the truth is, the mistake of the last decade, the best thing I can say about President

00:33:13.560 Xi is he woke us up about a decade ahead of time.

00:33:16.180 Now, are we making the most use of the time?

00:33:18.040 Absolutely not.

00:33:18.660 We have to start investing quantum computing, AI, biomedical, take alternative energy, take

00:33:25.720 all the promising technologies of tomorrow, massive investment in the research side, what

00:33:30.580 I call that, the brains part, and massive invest in the broad side so we have the capacity

00:33:35.640 to make the most of this.

00:33:37.040 And if you start with AI education in school, every child, every student will have the basics

00:33:43.660 and fundamentals to succeed as you look around the corner.

00:33:46.420 Unless the AI has already eaten us all by the time the children get this program.

00:33:50.700 Let's talk about immigration, because this is another issue in schools and elsewhere that

00:33:54.980 kids are dealing with.

00:33:55.900 I mean, in New York right now, it's crazy the number of translators they have to have in

00:33:59.580 the public schools, what the kids who are American born are having to deal with.

00:34:04.000 Why do you think Joe Biden let between 10 and 20 million illegals into the country?

00:34:07.900 Yeah.

00:34:08.220 So there's one is, let me start with what I think the challenge is.

00:34:13.660 Um, and I'm not sure why Biden did that or the Biden White House.

00:34:19.200 You're also, and I want to preface, it's not your audience knows this.

00:34:22.800 My father is an immigrant.

00:34:24.180 My grandfather on my mother's side, 1914 comes to America.

00:34:29.460 We're a nation of laws and a nation of immigrants.

00:34:32.860 That's who we are.

00:34:34.680 And we're clear about the law.

00:34:36.100 You break the law.

00:34:36.780 The law is going to follow you.

00:34:39.900 That should be simple.

00:34:42.380 And we're also a nation of immigrants.

00:34:44.060 We want people from around the world who want a better tomorrow.

00:34:47.000 People like from Asia, from Latin America and Africa who want to come here and start a 0.99

00:34:52.520 better future legally.

00:34:53.660 Yeah, legally.

00:34:54.860 Now, that's number one.

00:34:57.400 Number two.

00:34:59.140 And I just know is recent Gallup data all about how the numbers on immigration have flipped

00:35:03.440 on Trump, the people reacted to the chaos on the border.

00:35:08.100 Now, President Trump went from basically being the voice of order to the inspiration behind

00:35:12.960 disorder.

00:35:13.560 They do not like what he's doing in Los Angeles and around the country.

00:35:17.700 They see him now the inspiration behind disorder.

00:35:20.900 And I think if I was in for the Democrats, we have no disagreement on confronting illegal

00:35:27.860 immigration.

00:35:28.360 We should be for let's have a discussion about legal immigration, because there's a break.

00:35:32.800 But you didn't answer my question.

00:35:33.960 Why did Biden let 10 to 20 million illegal immigrants?

00:35:37.080 They were not focused on what they should have been focused on.

00:35:39.200 The border should never allow to be out of control.

00:35:42.100 Now, you opened it.

00:35:43.340 You're also talking to the person that for President Clinton was responsible for Operation

00:35:46.980 Gatekeeper in San Diego, Operation Safeguard in Nogales, Arizona.

00:35:52.720 The border should be secure.

00:35:54.840 So you disagree with what Joe Biden did?

00:35:56.440 I disagree with allowing chaos at the border that where people can flaunt the laws, as

00:36:01.440 again, my North stars on immigration.

00:36:04.380 We're a nation of laws and we're a nation of immigrants.

00:36:08.020 You have to honor both.

00:36:09.120 You can't allow disorder at the border and assume that it's going to be any respect for

00:36:13.940 the rest of the process.

00:36:15.080 Do you think would you change any of President Trump's border enforcement mechanisms if you

00:36:20.020 were elected president?

00:36:21.440 The border enforcement?

00:36:23.600 No.

00:36:24.020 I do think it's a mistake to call out, you know, I say this five years President Trump's

00:36:30.380 room, you know, first term, the first six months of his, the only place he's ever called

00:36:34.820 out U.S. troops is on an American city.

00:36:36.880 And I think that's absolutely wrong.

00:36:38.600 I do.

00:36:39.000 I do have a prisoner who's illegal.

00:36:42.320 Pick them up.

00:36:43.020 If they're in the orange jumpsuit, take them.

00:36:44.920 We'd love to.

00:36:45.560 But the sanctuary cities don't allow it.

00:36:47.140 No, no.

00:36:47.400 But here's my point.

00:36:48.700 That's a lot of states.

00:36:50.020 All the states basically participate in making sure if you have a criminal element who is

00:36:53.900 illegal, fine.

00:36:55.680 No, they do.

00:36:56.080 The sanctuary cities don't allow that.

00:36:57.440 You know, that's true.

00:36:58.200 Megan, let me then go farther.

00:37:00.320 You have people going to Home Depot to get a job.

00:37:04.000 That's not the problem here.

00:37:05.620 You have people trying to go to a place of worship at the Catholic Church.

00:37:08.800 That's not the problem here.

00:37:10.240 Border stuff? 0.57

00:37:11.400 I said it.

00:37:12.840 Problem is, and this is why President Trump's also numbers have flipped on this in the country,

00:37:18.160 not only Republicans and immigrants.

00:37:19.700 I've seen the numbers.

00:37:20.620 The latest Gallup poll shows a shift in support on President Trump for his deportation program.

00:37:26.780 Yeah.

00:37:26.920 And that's what we're talking about now.

00:37:27.920 Yes, right.

00:37:28.440 You've endorsed the border policies, but not the deportation policies.

00:37:31.180 And I'm also, to then get back to where I was, there is a split in the Republican Party

00:37:35.880 on legal immigration.

00:37:37.700 Yes, there is.

00:37:38.160 Chamber of Commerce, Republicans still want more.

00:37:40.120 And if Democrats were smart, said, we're good with you on illegal as it relates to the

00:37:44.920 border.

00:37:45.340 Now, let's talk about legal, because that's where the wedge is in the Republican Party.

00:37:48.860 They haven't, though.

00:37:49.440 You know, they haven't.

00:37:50.300 Well, I'm aware of that.

00:37:52.400 That's what makes you a little different.

00:37:53.960 And some would say, therefore, not electable by Democrats.

00:37:57.280 Like, I can see Rahm Emanuel, if he gets past the primary, appealing to some more centrist,

00:38:02.880 independent types.

00:38:04.340 But that, you know, I had Mark Halpern on the program recently.

00:38:07.080 He's coming on next.

00:38:08.160 And he was saying, you know, your biggest problem is going to be getting past the primary

00:38:11.500 because with the Democrats who have moved to the left, who are endorsing Democratic socialists

00:38:17.060 like Mondami and this guy in Minnesota.

00:38:19.480 Well, look, that's what primaries.

00:38:22.380 You know, President Clinton wasn't who we know him to be.

00:38:25.020 President Obama primaries will prove something and we'll prove something.

00:38:27.460 As I like to say, given the fields, we're all stuck at that big number, 3%.

00:38:30.800 OK, that's where we are.

00:38:32.280 I'll have to prove something.

00:38:33.640 But, you know, sometimes when you say on the let's say just say, quote unquote, the progressive left.

00:38:38.900 Who, as you noted, or as Mark has noted, have a problem.

00:38:43.620 Was it the free community college if you earn a B average in high school you have a problem with?

00:38:48.400 Was it the pre-K?

00:38:49.280 It was the Laquan McDonald tape, right?

00:38:51.320 So was it the minimum wage?

00:38:52.880 Yeah.

00:38:53.320 And the inspector general said that and did a report on it.

00:38:57.180 And look.

00:38:58.000 Just the audience.

00:38:58.820 Let me just tell the audience what that is.

00:38:59.960 So when Rahm was mayor of Chicago, there was an officer involved shooting of a black man named Laquan McDonald.

00:39:06.140 Little man, yeah.

00:39:06.520 And there was a tape of the incident that was kept quiet, kept not accessible by the public by a decision by you for a year.

00:39:15.500 And then ultimately you can correct me when I'm done.

00:39:17.560 And then ultimately you released it and it did show that the officer was to blame and that he shot when he shouldn't have.

00:39:23.580 And then there was an immediate drop in polling in support of you by especially the black and Hispanic communities in Chicago.

00:39:29.960 And some have never forgiven you for not releasing the tape earlier.

00:39:33.520 You can correct me.

00:39:34.480 As your lawyer, you know what the rules are as it relates in the middle of an investigation.

00:39:39.680 So one, let me go all the way to the back.

00:39:42.320 Laquan's uncle is a pastor on the West Side, big supporter of mine.

00:39:46.240 And there's not a day or a week that goes by that I don't rethink what ifs.

00:39:52.360 And you don't get a do over in politics.

00:39:55.400 You only get lessons learned applied forward.

00:39:57.540 And I thought I had fixed the system beforehand.

00:40:02.940 And clearly the problems are much deeper.

00:40:05.040 And I own that.

00:40:05.840 That's why.

00:40:06.480 And I take responsibility for that.

00:40:09.340 And responsibility not only to fix it, but to also get the place of the city in a better place.

00:40:15.580 There were seven attempts at police reform before I got there.

00:40:18.560 This one is finally sticking.

00:40:19.960 And the other thing is, you know, Joe Ferguson, the inspector general, went through it, said I followed.

00:40:25.580 The problem was I did follow the procedures.

00:40:28.800 That's the problem is they were put in place.

00:40:31.840 And you have kind of two tensions on one side.

00:40:35.240 If you got the FBI, the U.S. attorney investigating, city's investigating, state is investigating.

00:40:42.100 If you unilaterally make a decision, you hamper a criminal investigation.

00:40:46.900 That officer served three years.

00:40:49.740 If you don't do it, you only drive the wedge between the police and the community even further.

00:40:54.480 And so you're caught between this Solomon-like choice.

00:40:57.260 Either one, one, you break the law.

00:40:58.600 The other one, that.

00:40:59.380 What I hear you saying is you think it's explainable.

00:41:01.260 You think this is not a deal breaker for you and Democrat primary voters.

00:41:04.860 Look, I have the responsibilities I did when I got Senate confirmed for Ambassador to Japan.

00:41:10.260 I will explain it.

00:41:11.960 I own it.

00:41:13.380 And if you're looking for 100 percent, nobody is.

00:41:16.040 But I learned my lessons going forward.

00:41:19.180 And that's going to be true for anybody who's a chief executive.

00:41:21.920 Tying together the possibility of you as the Democrat nominee with our previous discussion

00:41:28.460 on illegal immigration, you may be aware that Hunter Biden has some thoughts on you.

00:41:33.560 Shared with a podcaster I do not know and have never heard of.

00:41:37.720 Hold on a second.

00:41:38.440 I'll tell you who he is.

00:41:39.460 His name is Andrew Callahan.

00:41:42.020 Okay.

00:41:42.340 He's a three-hour long interview.

00:41:44.240 This guy's a comedian and journalist and YouTuber.

00:41:48.060 And Hunter had some thoughts on you, among other issues.

00:41:51.920 Including illegal immigration.

00:41:53.560 Here he is.

00:41:55.400 And he's somehow convinced all of us that these people are the fucking criminals.

00:42:00.720 White men in America are 45 more times likely to commit a fucking violent crime than an immigrant.

00:42:06.760 And the media says, well, you got David Axelrod and, you know, Rahm fucking Emanuel.

00:42:11.460 So fucking smart Rahm Emanuel.

00:42:13.600 And so we got to understand that these people are really mad.

00:42:16.060 And we got to appeal to these white voters.

00:42:18.780 Rahm, the only people that fucking appealed to those fucking white voters was Joe Biden, 81 years old.

00:42:24.080 And he got 81 million votes.

00:42:25.700 And he did because not because he appeased their fucking Trumpian sense, but because he challenged it.

00:42:32.280 And he said, you can be an 81-year-old Catholic from fucking Scranton that doesn't understand it,

00:42:37.520 but still has empathy for transgender people and immigrants.

00:42:40.020 And nobody said, oh, Joe Biden's going to turn us into a socialist state, no matter how much they said it.

00:42:45.480 But these guys think that we need to run away from all values in order for us to lead.

00:42:50.300 I say, fuck you.

00:42:51.620 How are we getting those people back from fucking El Salvador? 1.00

00:42:53.860 He's got a potty mouth.

00:42:57.780 Neither you nor I have failed to utter that word in our past.

00:43:01.960 I know this.

00:43:03.360 But we went 50 minutes here clean.

00:43:04.980 He's a big fan of it.

00:43:07.760 I don't know.

00:43:08.380 I kind of like Rahm fucking Emanuel.

00:43:10.020 I could see that on a sign, like a lawn sign for you.

00:43:12.640 Your thoughts on his thoughts about you?

00:43:15.080 I'm kind of feeling for Axelrod right now.

00:43:17.620 He got thrown down in the gutter with me.

00:43:19.640 I've got an empathy.

00:43:21.020 I don't.

00:43:21.500 I think we're giving this more time than it's due.

00:43:24.200 That's my own view.

00:43:25.000 Yeah.

00:43:26.260 Yeah.

00:43:27.520 A little empathetic.

00:43:28.840 You have a son who's blinded by his own love for an effect and loyalty for his father.

00:43:34.980 And I get that, but not the first phone call I'm going to make for a strategery. 0.98

00:43:39.960 Good to hear.

00:43:40.820 He's also been out there and said it there in part that the saying the only reason that

00:43:44.960 the Dems lost last presidential election is because they weren't loyal to his father.

00:43:48.860 Yeah.

00:43:49.300 Megan, as you probably know, there's a lot of stories about Dems have to now start swearing

00:43:54.840 to look like they're normal or something like that.

00:43:57.420 I was 30 years ahead of my time.

00:43:59.460 I'm like a good bottle of wine.

00:44:02.260 Still not normal?

00:44:03.560 Is that it?

00:44:04.460 I mean, I don't.

00:44:05.300 I just, it's not.

00:44:06.520 We spent two minutes, way too much time on that.

00:44:08.720 I'm not, this isn't about Hunter, but I know your brother Ari, according to the Jake Tapper

00:44:13.500 book, was very outspoken about getting Biden off the ticket, saying he cannot do it.

00:44:18.200 We need a plan.

00:44:19.220 Come up with a real plan.

00:44:21.940 You're not your brother's keeper, but you're Joe Biden's ambassador to Japan.

00:44:25.580 Did you share those feelings?

00:44:27.100 I was appointed by Joe.

00:44:28.040 I was America's ambassador to Japan.

00:44:29.980 Thank you.

00:44:30.840 So, and that's how I took the role.

00:44:33.440 But I was honored that President Biden selected me.

00:44:37.040 So here's my thing is, look, one that everybody said, oh, it was a cover up or whatever.

00:44:44.980 83% of the American people issued a judgment.

00:44:47.280 If it was a cover up, the American people were in on it because they had their own opinion.

00:44:50.360 Number two, does this look like subtle, quiet, reserved?

00:44:55.320 No.

00:44:55.740 Okay.

00:44:56.180 So number three, I have a general rule.

00:44:59.660 I mean, just look, Oval offices are very seductive, been in and out of them with two

00:45:06.840 presidents for eight years.

00:45:08.820 White House is one of the challenges they have is not to be as insular as they become.

00:45:13.800 It's pretty clear that that both of those qualities played a role here.

00:45:18.240 Now, I slightly disagree with other Democrats.

00:45:22.260 I actually think this was a winnable race.

00:45:23.840 Um, and, uh, it's pretty clear if you look at the data, it was a winnable race.

00:45:29.960 And the real, uh, challenge in my view is why Democrats failed.

00:45:34.600 It was not going to be a blowout race, but you could, the, the data was there and the

00:45:40.340 capacity was there to win and the Democrats fumbled it.

00:45:43.580 You think it was winnable with Joe Biden?

00:45:45.820 No, but it was a winnable race.

00:45:47.640 Okay.

00:45:47.860 If there'd been some sort of a reset.

00:45:50.660 Look, 70% of the country thought it was heading in the wrong direction.

00:45:53.840 That's kind of architecturally built in for a challenger.

00:45:57.040 But the day Kamala Harris takes over, the Democrats are down, Biden, Harris are down eight.

00:46:04.720 By the time you get to the, her debate with Joe, with Donald Trump, she's up three.

00:46:08.920 That's not a statistical error.

00:46:10.240 She was running on the economy, running on what I think is the most important issue, that 1.00

00:46:15.780 the American dream is unaffordable.

00:46:17.940 It's inaccessible to the American people.

00:46:20.340 And that is unacceptable to us.

00:46:22.180 This shouldn't be that hard.

00:46:23.800 Owning a home has become a struggle.

00:46:26.240 Yep.

00:46:26.480 The system is stacked against people.

00:46:28.920 It used to be, you're not wrong.

00:46:30.220 Okay.

00:46:30.620 That's the fun.

00:46:31.500 And we went off on all these other tangentially.

00:46:34.900 They're telling you what the core thing is.

00:46:37.060 And when Kamala Harris spoke to it, she goes up plus three.

00:46:40.800 After the debate, she wanders off into this democracy thing.

00:46:45.140 So in a weird way, when she makes a break with Joe Biden and says, I'm going to be the future.

00:46:54.080 I'm going to be change.

00:46:55.840 She. 0.93

00:46:56.520 But all the answers of, I don't distinguish my agenda at all.

00:46:59.720 And then basically debate or from the view performance, she basically, I'm going to be continuity.

00:47:06.340 She goes down.

00:47:07.000 So to me, it tells you that, no disrespect to Hunter Biden's analysis, that this was winnable.

00:47:15.480 Now, I do think they're below that surface.

00:47:19.240 Forget 2024 for one second.

00:47:21.920 I think the Iraq war, the financial meltdown of 08, China into the WTO unchecked, and COVID have fundamentally not only upended our politics, upended our economics, upended our schools.

00:47:39.520 And we haven't yet recovered from all that.

00:47:41.840 Totally agree with that.

00:47:42.800 Every word.

00:47:43.560 Third, one, Iraq was built on a lie and a deception, and people responsible for it have never been held accountable. 0.58

00:47:52.080 As somebody who in the Obama administration argued for Old Testament justice, the bankers should have been slapped silly on the South Lawn, line them up, and just beat the living crap out of them.

00:48:04.020 And they weren't.

00:48:04.900 They were arguing for their bonuses, and people lost their homes.

00:48:07.340 Number three, what we talked about China earlier still applies in this conversation, which is they were cleaning our clocks, and we left America basically unilaterally disarmed to face off against China by themselves. 0.77

00:48:20.000 And COVID also, and this is where I think Democrats have made a mistake, we donned the jacket of the establishment, follow the science, follow the science, when it's pretty clear, like, take schools.

00:48:30.660 COVID, as it relates to young kids, wasn't what it was related to people that were either both ill or much older.

00:48:38.340 They're still suffering.

00:48:38.880 And now we have an absentee rate of 20%, and we look at our shoes and we don't want to talk about it.

00:48:42.700 So when you look at those four things, that is, to me, the biggest structural challenges of our society, our economy, and our democracy.

00:48:50.180 Here's the thing I have to ask you.

00:48:52.280 Is it possible for a cisgender, heteronormative male, who happens to be Jewish, to get the Democrat nominee for president in 2025 America?

00:49:04.580 Well, that's going to be up to the Democratic voters, but I'm going to make the best case.

00:49:07.180 Yeah, I get that number.

00:49:08.160 Don't worry about that.

00:49:09.860 Look, let's just take Jewish. 0.99

00:49:12.580 Yes, I do, because I will say one thing.

00:49:14.880 When I ran for Congress, my predecessors were Dan Rosankowski, Roman Paczynski, Frank Annunzio, Rob Vukovic, Flanagan, and along comes Rahm Israel Emanuel.

00:49:25.680 Same thing.

00:49:26.260 There was only 2% Jewish in the district.

00:49:28.020 But the Dem Party has changed on Israel.

00:49:29.860 I'm going to get right there.

00:49:30.680 You know that.

00:49:30.860 I want to say, I've had Nazi insignia sprayed on a fence.

00:49:36.740 I've seen it.

00:49:37.180 And I've seen, I still don't know, somebody go clean it up.

00:49:40.360 So I've seen the best of people.

00:49:43.060 I've seen people look past, not past faith, or more importantly, not past my faith, because it is who I am.

00:49:49.280 Yeah.

00:49:49.480 My name is Rahm Israel Emanuel, not according to Hunter Biden, but it is who I am.

00:49:53.260 Okay?

00:49:54.000 So I look at that, and my faith and my Jewish education is what led me to public service, and I'm very proud of it.

00:50:03.200 Now, by way, I am the only person who's ever gone toe-to-toe with Bibi Netanyahu.

00:50:08.000 He called me a self-hiding Jew publicly.

00:50:10.140 So I support the state of Israel.

00:50:12.220 I support its existence.

00:50:13.740 I support it as a Jewish democratic nation, a sovereign nation.

00:50:19.120 But I am willing, when I disagree, speak about that.

00:50:22.440 And I've said that, but do I think so?

00:50:24.300 I do, because in the end of the day, our party believes in both economic kind of equality and also equality in a political system.

00:50:34.580 And this country, this idea, and I say this, I want you to hear, my grandfather came here from Ukraine with nothing.

00:50:45.640 That his grandson, that he used to call a schmuck, could be both a chief of staff to a president, a senior advisor, elected to Congress, the mayor of the city that we called home, and then represent America over.

00:50:57.280 This is the greatest country in the world, not because of my success, but because of the story and the permission that it has allowed somebody whose own grandfather didn't have a bucket to spit in and a window to throw it out of, could provide that opportunity.

00:51:13.160 And I'll close on this, because we didn't get to this amount of family.

00:51:17.520 My parents, in our family room, had my grandmother's purse with her and my two great aunts' passports.

00:51:27.280 And on either side of that purse were the black and white photos of my aunts, uncles, cousins, a mom and dad's side who never made it to this country.

00:51:37.240 There's nothing subtle in a Jewish home. 1.00

00:51:40.340 You are given a gift.

00:51:41.840 It's called the United States of America.

00:51:44.100 You respect that gift and you honor that gift.

00:51:47.160 And that is what I live with.

00:51:48.380 And I think the country, as a father with two kids in the armed forces, will respect that.

00:51:53.400 Thank you so much.

00:51:54.460 I think your children are wrong.

00:51:55.420 You should talk about your dad and your grandpa and your kids.

00:51:58.380 You nailed it.

00:51:59.200 I got it.

00:51:59.720 Thank God it was only a minute because I was close to tears there and I see the Kleenex right there.

00:52:03.980 Rob Emanuel, thank you.

00:52:05.180 Thanks for having me.

00:52:05.520 Come back, will you?

00:52:06.300 Yeah, sure.

00:52:06.700 All the best to you.

00:52:07.480 And we'll be right back with Mark.

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00:54:09.420 Okay, we've got some friends on the show joining me now to recap what we just saw and talk about all the latest headlines as well.

00:54:18.420 Let's get to it with two of the hosts on the MK Media Podcast Network.

00:54:21.900 Mark Halperin, host of Next Up with Mark Halperin.

00:54:24.560 And Link Lauren's here too.

00:54:25.740 He's host of Spot On with Link Lauren, along with former Democratic strategist Dan Turntine, a co-host of The Morning Meeting on the Two-Way YouTube channel with Mark.

00:54:34.860 Guys, welcome.

00:54:35.560 Great to have you.

00:54:36.220 Thanks for having us.

00:54:37.140 So fun.

00:54:37.540 I didn't know which hour to look forward to more, but I'm just like, this one's here.

00:54:40.700 It's like game, post-game.

00:54:42.500 All right, so let's start.

00:54:43.340 Let's pretend we didn't talk about the Rahm Emanuel interview during break and give me your fresh impressions.

00:54:48.760 Dan, you go first.

00:54:49.960 I thought he did great.

00:54:51.100 I mean, I think considering this is like early in the game, no one's going to be perfect at this point.

00:54:55.780 He had good answers.

00:54:56.960 I thought when you asked him about the workforce and the economy, I thought even on immigration, right?

00:55:01.460 You heard the echoes of Bill Clinton, a nation of laws, a nation of immigrants.

00:55:07.260 He kept coming back to that.

00:55:08.880 He, you know, when you tried to talk to him about the border and everyone coming in, he said, I don't know why they didn't do it, but they shouldn't have.

00:55:15.460 I thought he did well.

00:55:16.680 I thought the one issue where he was a little bit was the transgender.

00:55:20.240 That's obviously a touchy issue in the party.

00:55:22.680 But I thought that he did very well.

00:55:25.260 And when I think about people who understand what you need to do to win, that is somebody who understands what it takes.

00:55:31.860 Yep.

00:55:32.000 I think for me, maybe it's a generational difference, but half the electorate is going to be Gen Z and millennials by 2028.

00:55:38.620 And when you think of Rahm Emanuel and you Google him, every picture of him cavorting with the Clintons, the Obamas, the Bidens.

00:55:45.280 He looks like politics as usual, and he looks like the embodiment of the swamp.

00:55:49.140 And even in the interview, I felt he came across a little smarmy trying to control the interview.

00:55:52.900 He was wishy-washy on some of the trans stuff. 1.00

00:55:54.840 And it's like, you're a 65-year-old man.

00:55:56.640 You've been in politics for decades, the upper echelons of politics.

00:55:59.540 And you can't give straight answers on these questions that we want.

00:56:02.200 And you kept asking about men in women's restrooms and in girls' bathrooms. 1.00

00:56:05.700 He said, oh, it's not a dominant issue.

00:56:07.100 Let's move on.

00:56:07.640 It's not a dominant issue.

00:56:08.800 But then Kamala Harris, part of the reason she lost were those swing state ads on taxpayer-funded transgender surgeries for inmates. 1.00

00:56:15.580 These might not be the dominant issues to you.

00:56:18.640 And you might think they're culture war issues, but they're still going to galvanize voters.

00:56:21.600 So I just didn't find him that likable.

00:56:23.260 OK, so he did not get Link's vote, Mark.

00:56:25.180 No, and they're both right.

00:56:27.580 I've known Rahm since your senior year in college, so I've known him a long time.

00:56:32.180 Dan is right that Rahm graded on a curve against some of these other people who were talked about.

00:56:37.140 His level of sophistication, his level of confidence, his level of understanding the intersection of politics, politics and the press.

00:56:43.880 It's light years ahead of almost any other Democrat, not just thinking of running for president, but almost any Democrat active on the national stage.

00:56:51.260 Link's right, too.

00:56:51.940 There are so many issues related to Rahm that make it almost impossible to imagine him actually being the nominee, not only because he's at, as your questions teased out, he's crosswise with the base.

00:57:03.460 But he's yesterday.

00:57:05.140 He's a longtime political figure, made millions, you know, in investment banking.

00:57:11.460 He's not on paper what the party is currently looking for.

00:57:15.100 So I think he showed his best and his worst with you.

00:57:17.900 And I think you asked him about all the right issues that teased that out and put it in Sharper.

00:57:21.940 It was fascinating.

00:57:23.060 So from my perspective, but I'll say one thing about yesterday before I get to my perspective.

00:57:26.560 So was Joe Biden.

00:57:27.420 He was yesterday.

00:57:28.220 And he won.

00:57:29.140 You know, I'm talking about the first time around.

00:57:31.080 So there is the possibility that even though you've got baggage and you've got party affiliations and you've got all the connections for 50 years.

00:57:38.100 No question.

00:57:38.620 You could be the man.

00:57:39.620 Walter Mondale was the nominee, too.

00:57:41.260 But we're in a different time, I think.

00:57:42.680 And even from even from four years ago.

00:57:44.460 Yeah, we've got Mom Donnie now, like they are next mayor here. 1.00

00:57:47.780 So they're they're really going.

00:57:48.920 Maybe.

00:57:49.380 Let's hope not.

00:57:50.900 But my own impression was.

00:57:52.500 So I thought we had a very cordial first 48 minutes together.

00:57:56.340 And that's good.

00:57:57.300 I mean, and we kind of laughed about it after the fact that we're sure meeting number two will be a little bit more.

00:58:01.220 Was that your first time with him?

00:58:02.340 Yeah.

00:58:02.640 Yeah.

00:58:02.800 It was my first time interviewing him.

00:58:04.600 Got it.

00:58:05.260 No, people like Rahm Emanuel did not come on Fox News.

00:58:08.440 We did not have access to the show.

00:58:10.420 Yeah.

00:58:10.720 So but I liked it.

00:58:12.060 You know, we touched on some hot button issues, but we kept it cordial.

00:58:14.340 And I think that's good.

00:58:15.080 I really wanted the audience to get to know him.

00:58:16.660 And I wanted to see if he would say normal things to me without me, like beating him over the head or him beating me over that.

00:58:23.240 And I was amazed at some of his direct answers.

00:58:26.740 Like, yes, he wiggled on the trans thing for quite a while. 0.92

00:58:30.080 But in the end, when we did our little lightning round, he did give me a couple of points.

00:58:34.660 Like the men in prison.

00:58:36.020 We have it cut.

00:58:36.780 Here's here.

00:58:37.260 Watch.

00:58:37.740 I have a son and two daughters and they are physically different.

00:58:40.620 And that's why when it comes to sports.

00:58:43.140 Why did all the Democrats bail off of that point?

00:58:45.200 The couple came out right after the election and they said what you just said.

00:58:48.000 And then they got browbeaten.

00:58:49.660 And then you got the answers in the question.

00:58:52.340 I mean, that's not ever scared me.

00:58:54.020 And, you know, I used to say this to President Clinton and President Obama.

00:58:56.920 Sound is not always fury.

00:58:59.000 Sometimes it's just sound.

00:59:00.300 And don't assume just because somebody's screaming at you, they represent more than their own voice.

00:59:04.220 Can, should we be putting men in female prisons? 1.00

00:59:08.480 Men claiming they're women? 0.80

00:59:10.100 No.

00:59:11.640 And, all right, here's my last one for you.

00:59:14.120 Can a man become a woman? 1.00

00:59:16.860 Can a man become a woman? 1.00

00:59:19.440 Not, no.

00:59:20.740 Thank you.

00:59:21.740 No.

00:59:22.300 That's so easy.

00:59:23.200 Why don't more people in your party just say that?

00:59:25.340 Because I'm now going to go into a witness protection plan.

00:59:27.720 Is he?

00:59:30.560 I mean, listen, you guys know, I realize that wasn't, like, hugely, like, a huge breakthrough.

00:59:36.280 We all talk about what's true and what's real every day.

00:59:38.400 But for a guy who wants to be the Democratic nominee, that was pretty bold.

00:59:42.280 Well, I think the overarching thesis and takeaway from the interview is just how broken the Democrat brand is.

00:59:47.200 That a guy goes, men and women are different.

00:59:49.020 And we're like, hooray!

00:59:51.080 He's like, oh, wait, men and women have biological differences.

00:59:54.280 We're going, yes, amazing.

00:59:55.540 This is groundbreaking for a Democrat.

00:59:57.040 It's like, that's how broken the identity is.

00:59:59.680 But he's going to have a hard time in the primary because the Democrat party has been co-opted by this, like, loud, progressive, vocal minority.

01:00:05.960 And they just keep capitulating to them.

01:00:07.880 So I don't really think he has a prayer.

01:00:09.540 He might have some good ideas and he seems strong on some issues.

01:00:12.560 But I don't think he has a prayer in a primary.

01:00:13.640 Does that come back to haunt him?

01:00:14.780 No.

01:00:15.120 I mean, I think, look, the interesting thing.

01:00:17.400 No, it does not come back to haunt him?

01:00:18.200 No.

01:00:18.600 And I'll tell you why.

01:00:19.680 Even hanging out with you might come back to haunt him.

01:00:21.120 That's right.

01:00:22.320 There's two things going on.

01:00:23.580 The first is the party after the election said, we know we need to make change.

01:00:27.360 Now, anytime anyone's attempted to do it, as he said, the base has yelled.

01:00:31.760 Rahm's issue is going to be both two things.

01:00:34.040 He's going to have to do these sister soldier moments.

01:00:36.200 The party needs to do sister soldier moments. 0.81

01:00:38.220 Where you break with your party.

01:00:39.140 And he's got that, right?

01:00:40.160 I don't worry about that.

01:00:41.380 Rahm's other challenge is he's going to have to throw some bones to the base.

01:00:44.800 And where he chooses to do that, because the problem for Rahm is the energy is in the base

01:00:49.760 and the base can't stand him.

01:00:51.320 You asked him about it.

01:00:52.280 You asked about a very sensitive issue that he has with the black community.

01:00:56.560 He's going to have to figure out, and I have no doubt he's thinking about this, where am

01:01:00.720 I going to lock arms with them and unapologetically charge against Donald Trump and J.D. Vance and

01:01:05.760 everybody else.

01:01:07.340 Other candidates, it's the complete opposite.

01:01:09.660 They're inching up to that sister soldier moment.

01:01:12.140 Gavin Newsom on the podcast with Charlie Curran.

01:01:14.580 Flirted with it.

01:01:15.760 Took so much heat.

01:01:16.800 He then, you know, and was really kind of struggling until the immigration thing propelled 0.99

01:01:21.160 him forward within our party.

01:01:22.940 Maybe not the general electorate.

01:01:24.580 So, I mean, Rahm's got two things.

01:01:26.360 But again, he thinks about that stuff.

01:01:28.720 He'll be smart about it.

01:01:29.800 He'll be strategic.

01:01:30.500 And I have no doubt when he does, he'll move forward aggressively.

01:01:34.580 Let me be honest about Rahm.

01:01:36.000 That's not what Rahm likes to be honest.

01:01:37.640 Rahm's talented, right?

01:01:39.040 He's one of the most talented Pauls.

01:01:41.380 He's not Bill Clinton.

01:01:43.080 He's not Barack Obama.

01:01:44.660 He's not George Bush, and he's not Donald Trump.

01:01:46.800 He's not in their league.

01:01:48.080 He's a super talented staffer, which he once was.

01:01:50.780 He was a super talented candidate for mayor, super talented DCCC head.

01:01:57.100 He's talented, but he's not their category of talented.

01:02:01.760 So can someone less talented than those four guys, all of whom stood up to their party and

01:02:07.120 appealed to the base, right?

01:02:08.480 Simultaneous, make people in the base feel good and stand up to people in the base.

01:02:12.420 That's really hard.

01:02:13.460 I just don't know that Rahm is talented enough to do that, except he's running against a

01:02:17.420 bunch of people who are less talented.

01:02:19.640 So he might be talented enough to do it, but he's not in their league.

01:02:22.240 But I will say the people he's running against, let's say it's like AOC, Gavin Newsom,

01:02:25.320 they have some star quality and charisma.

01:02:27.760 That's what I was missing.

01:02:28.600 Maybe if I watched it, I would get a different feel.

01:02:30.380 But listening to it, it was kind of like low energy Jeb Bush, kind of like that sort of

01:02:34.640 slow, smarmy.

01:02:35.480 I don't think he's low energy.

01:02:36.980 He's got another gear.

01:02:38.500 Where's the other gear, though?

01:02:39.620 I guess in this interview, it just felt kind of like low to me.

01:02:42.180 And he's kind of like, yeah, I'm thinking about that.

01:02:43.660 So I don't know if he has the star power and charisma to tap into the sort of like populism

01:02:47.300 on the left that the right has had for so long.

01:02:49.420 And then to go to what you mentioned, the reason President Trump caught fire in 2015 and 16

01:02:53.880 is because he was willing to call out the elites and the establishment in his own party,

01:02:58.340 these neocons and who've been running the party for, you know, 15, 20 years.

01:03:01.640 I don't know if Rahm is going to be able to do that because the left likes, but he has

01:03:05.900 one.

01:03:06.120 And the left likes to cast purity tests way more than the right.

01:03:08.780 You said one thing we disagree with, or we don't like this one little thing.

01:03:11.540 So I think he's going to have a tough time.

01:03:13.540 He doesn't sound woke.

01:03:15.000 I'm not sure whether any Democrat who's not woke is going to get nominated next time around.

01:03:19.580 The party just does.

01:03:20.680 They're captured by it.

01:03:21.700 It's a cancer.

01:03:23.300 It's metastasized.

01:03:24.940 There's no excising it.

01:03:26.180 I know normies like you, Dan, would like it to be, but I just don't think it can happen.

01:03:30.040 The only thing is our party's history, we flirt with these very progressive candidates,

01:03:35.420 Howard Dean, you know, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, Sanders in 16 and both of

01:03:40.440 them in 2020.

01:03:41.880 Our history is we back off and go with the safe candidate.

01:03:45.600 Now, our party is more left than we were in the past.

01:03:49.220 And at some point that may come to an end, that pattern.

01:03:53.380 But as a party, we tend to value victory and who we think has the best chance way more than

01:04:00.160 people I think kind of give us credit for.

01:04:02.580 Here's what's cautionary for me.

01:04:04.380 What was the most obvious question you were going to ask him?

01:04:07.440 What was the thing he should be prepared for more than any other?

01:04:10.860 About how he's going to win over his...

01:04:12.880 Well, trans, trans, right? 0.96

01:04:14.680 Oh, you mean for me, Megan?

01:04:15.820 Yeah, yeah, yes, for sure.

01:04:17.620 So he basically tried to avoid answering until you wouldn't let him, right?

01:04:21.240 Yes.

01:04:21.660 That to me, I mean, how he could have been relative, maybe he thinks that was the right

01:04:25.400 way to do it.

01:04:26.020 But to me, that seems unprepared, not just mechanically unprepared, but if he's not ready

01:04:31.120 to confront that issue with you, what's he waiting for?

01:04:34.580 Yeah, you know for sure I'm going to be asking about that.

01:04:36.300 He also, he did, for the record, endorse minors getting puberty blockers into cross-sex hormones,

01:04:43.200 meaning they get sterilized for life, they lose sexual function, as long as their parents

01:04:48.460 agree, which is not what the side of reason believes at all.

01:04:51.900 And his bathroom answer wasn't great either.

01:04:53.700 No, because he'd already allowed it.

01:04:55.300 Well, but he could say on reflection, I think it was a bad idea.

01:04:58.160 And he didn't abandon it.

01:04:59.600 Without Trump, I did.

01:05:00.980 He did not abandon that.

01:05:02.420 But he did not say that a man could become a woman.

01:05:05.260 And he said men shouldn't be in women's prisons.

01:05:07.620 And he seemed to say men shouldn't be in women's sports.

01:05:09.780 He's kidding himself if he thinks, I believe, he can say, that's not the focus.

01:05:13.960 The focus is on the economy.

01:05:15.200 That's never going to fly with me or anybody else.

01:05:17.520 Like, I'm sorry, whether it's hubris, we'll decide what the focus is.

01:05:21.280 Like, that's the one advantage of having this job.

01:05:23.500 But also the base will decide too.

01:05:24.920 Yeah, but I mean, I'm saying, literally, having done all these presidential debates, I'm sorry,

01:05:29.520 I will decide.

01:05:31.000 It is up to me.

01:05:32.060 I'm sorry.

01:05:32.860 I will be the one to put this issue.

01:05:34.540 By the way, we're trying to win back the working class voters for whom that was a bigger issue

01:05:37.260 than we thought it was.

01:05:38.500 Right.

01:05:38.640 It's just, it's the cultural, do you understand us?

01:05:42.560 Right.

01:05:42.780 We started losing them culturally in the 90s.

01:05:45.000 We then lost them economically in the last 10 years.

01:05:47.380 We got to win them back on both fronts.

01:05:48.760 And I don't want to just be negative about it, about him.

01:05:50.900 Because again, I think he's more talented than almost anybody else who might run.

01:05:54.860 What he gave you was a bunch of tactical replies.

01:05:57.820 Megan's going to ask this.

01:05:58.580 I'm going to say this.

01:05:59.300 I'm going to try to change the subject.

01:06:00.360 She didn't change the subject.

01:06:01.480 Now I got to answer.

01:06:02.380 Did you feel as hard on any of those issues?

01:06:04.100 I liked the last answer about America.

01:06:06.240 I'm saying on the top of the issues.

01:06:08.340 No, not on those.

01:06:08.420 The American stuff's easy.

01:06:09.540 No.

01:06:09.720 He can do hard on that.

01:06:10.600 There was no, you know, again, to go back to the question of authenticity.

01:06:14.120 It was all tactics.

01:06:15.060 I think the education thing is legit to him.

01:06:17.460 Yeah.

01:06:17.640 I mean, that's sellable.

01:06:19.220 But that's an easy one.

01:06:19.480 It's a real issue.

01:06:20.100 Exactly.

01:06:20.640 Yeah.

01:06:20.940 On the easy ones, he's great.

01:06:22.300 Yeah.

01:06:22.440 On the hard ones, I thought it was all just tactical.

01:06:24.320 The one place I disagree with you, though, Mark, is on the vocational training stuff.

01:06:28.760 I do think he believes in it, which it's easy.

01:06:31.660 No one's against vocational training.

01:06:33.340 Well, but we fumbled over what we want to do on the economy, like to no end.

01:06:37.440 Sure.

01:06:37.980 But he just, to me, he's not trying to show his heart on those things.

01:06:41.660 He's just trying to get through it.

01:06:43.400 I wonder whether he'll have it improved to the point that he can sell it.

01:06:48.060 Because, look, Gavin Newsom suffers from a different problem.

01:06:50.640 And he was saying we're all at 3%.

01:06:51.800 That's not exactly true.

01:06:53.460 Kamala Harris is at 12.

01:06:54.680 My God.

01:06:55.560 Good luck, Dan.

01:06:56.980 Tighten.

01:06:57.920 Let's go back to Rome.

01:06:58.740 Right after Kamala is Gavin, who's up there, I think, single, like maybe nine.

01:07:03.520 And then everybody else is down lower.

01:07:05.260 AOC is up there, but it's not going to happen.

01:07:08.660 So he's right that there's no real frontrunner.

01:07:11.840 And we don't think Kamala Harris is actually going to run for president again. 0.99

01:07:14.260 So it's really him and Gavin maybe looming up there.

01:07:18.160 And Gavin Newsom, I don't know.

01:07:20.060 He may be formidable.

01:07:21.260 To me, he's just such an obvious snake oil salesman who will say anything depending on who's across from him.

01:07:26.920 I just think people will be able to see through that from a mile away.

01:07:30.440 And they might like the steady Eddie with a couple sharp elbows, Rahm fucking Emanuel, Rahm Deadfish, whatever it is.

01:07:39.900 Well, my thing with Gavin Newsom is he can't even call his wife his wife.

01:07:42.740 She's like his partner.

01:07:43.700 And she's given the man multiple kids.

01:07:45.220 And then he was against men and women's sports for a minute in the Charlie Kirk interview.

01:07:48.860 He's gone back.

01:07:49.760 Now he's fighting with the DOJ.

01:07:51.220 Gavin Newsom stands for nothing.

01:07:52.480 So if Rahm Emanuel can have black and white straight up answers for things, just be straight with the American people.

01:07:57.460 And to go to your point, Dan, the left and the mainstream media constantly like to tell Americans what issues are important to them.

01:08:03.660 Oh, trans is a culture war issue. 1.00

01:08:05.260 It's not a big deal.

01:08:06.160 Well, these millions of moms turned out for President Trump because it was a big deal. 0.91

01:08:09.520 Oh, we don't care about seed oils.

01:08:10.900 This is food isn't going to decide this election.

01:08:12.980 Those Maha moms came and turned out. 1.00

01:08:14.900 So every issue matters now, especially with social media.

01:08:17.380 I think Rahm's got to fine tune some of these answers.

01:08:19.760 The other thing is, can I tell you, I was thinking about this last week.

01:08:22.900 You know, right before the fall of the Roman Empire, the culture completely imploded with debauchery and no connection to faith or something bigger than oneself and all these, you know, not caring for the weak or, you know, for unborn babies at all.

01:08:37.120 And that's why the culture wars do matter.

01:08:38.860 Like we're back there in some ways with like throuples and people trying to normalize pedophilia with the minor attracted person label and the cutting off of children's genitals in the name of like equity and inclusion, dividing us by race, trying to make little girls boys when they're not like all this stuff.

01:08:58.160 You can dismiss it as culture wars, but I actually think it's the degradation of a cohesive society.

01:09:05.200 It's what happens when you remove faith as a guiding principle of any society.

01:09:11.340 And it really is the road to end times.

01:09:13.700 Like it's fine to just dismiss it as like, oh, you're sweet little culture.

01:09:16.800 No, it's the road to end times.

01:09:18.920 So like if we don't fight back against it, we're going to completely lose everything that's dear to us.

01:09:23.480 I don't know if he knows that or if he's just too much of a Democrat to really see that.

01:09:28.600 He travels in circles where these things are not as big a deal.

01:09:32.180 He just does.

01:09:32.880 What do you make of Gavin Newsom, though, against him?

01:09:34.880 Those two on a stage.

01:09:35.840 Picture that.

01:09:36.200 I still think Newsom's not going to run.

01:09:37.660 I'm the only one who does.

01:09:38.460 You really do.

01:09:38.980 Why?

01:09:39.760 Because in the interview I did with him on the MK Media Network, he talked about his daughter being upset that she had to be followed around by one security person when she went out.

01:09:50.180 And when are you going to leave?

01:09:51.480 She said, he said, his daughter said, when are you going to leave office so I can stop this? 0.79

01:09:55.460 If he runs for president and wins.

01:09:56.740 He's not going to stop running for him.

01:09:58.960 He doesn't even know the daughter's damn mania. 1.00

01:10:01.560 Who the hell is this daughter? 1.00

01:10:03.260 Oh, please.

01:10:03.760 I also don't think his wife wants him to run.

01:10:05.440 You don't?

01:10:06.000 Oh, Jennifer Schiphol-Nusom, first partner, does not want him to run.

01:10:10.100 I may be wrong.

01:10:10.940 Maybe he'll do it.

01:10:11.560 But I don't know.

01:10:12.240 If he does run and it's him against Rom, then I think you will see an elevated debate.

01:10:19.260 I don't.

01:10:19.740 I don't.

01:10:20.240 I think those two guys will have a serious conversation about the party.

01:10:22.980 With all due respect, this is a guy who sleeps with his campaign manager's wife.

01:10:27.300 He's an alcoholic who kind of lied about going to rehab and we're suddenly like, he's father of the year.

01:10:31.660 His daughter really doesn't want him to run for president. 0.96

01:10:33.920 Oh, please.

01:10:34.620 He's going to run if he wants to run.

01:10:35.560 And they'll still make his daughter play against a boy in sports, even though he gives lip service that he won't when he's interviewing.

01:10:40.360 I mean, I don't know how he can't be thinking seriously about it and leaning towards it, given the last month and a half that he's had.

01:10:46.920 I mean, we can all debate whether what he advocated for with the L.A. riots was smart or not.

01:10:52.240 But he's had a moment in the party.

01:10:53.760 I don't think anyone's had a better last month as a Democratic candidate for 2028 than Gavin Newsom.

01:10:58.460 Wow.

01:10:58.900 Because the bar is low.

01:11:00.680 Agreed.

01:11:01.160 A hundred percent agreed.

01:11:02.260 Seventh ring of hell.

01:11:03.100 But the party now, like if you read articles when he went to South Carolina, you look at focus groups, what does everyone say?

01:11:09.400 He's fighting.

01:11:10.140 Oh, my God, he fights.

01:11:11.060 He stood up to Trump.

01:11:12.580 He now has this communications team where he's trolling J.D. Vance.

01:11:16.340 He's trolling.

01:11:16.660 He's doing better on social media.

01:11:18.260 He's employing a lot of the tactics.

01:11:20.100 He's not speaking our language, but you have to acknowledge that he's out there swinging.

01:11:23.520 Well, he is speaking the language of Donald Trump, which is nonstop front foot in your face.

01:11:28.960 I'm going to troll you.

01:11:29.780 I'm going to hit you.

01:11:30.360 I'm going to mock you.

01:11:31.120 I'm going to do everything.

01:11:31.740 And our base, just as the Republican base, craved it in 15 of like, oh, my God, he's not apologizing on immigration or any of this stuff.

01:11:38.680 We can again, we can debate good general election strategy.

01:11:41.280 But I don't know how you go to South Carolina and Jim Clyburn says, I like this guy.

01:11:46.000 He's got a bright future, I think.

01:11:47.800 And go home and say, well, hon.

01:11:50.140 I'm hanging out.

01:11:51.180 All right.

01:11:51.520 That was nice.

01:11:52.380 I would have won.

01:11:53.300 There's four factors that I think get lost in the conversation about running for president that I don't know that he'll do as well in.

01:12:00.260 And I'm very bullish, more bullish than you two are on his skills.

01:12:02.900 One is, what are the early states they're going to vote?

01:12:04.920 We don't know.

01:12:05.880 But if the early states are include Iowa and South Carolina, let's see how he does.

01:12:10.040 Gavin.

01:12:10.400 We're talking about Gavin.

01:12:11.020 Gavin.

01:12:11.480 Number two, raising money.

01:12:13.040 He should be able to raise a ton of money as governor of California.

01:12:15.340 He's got the best digital list to raise money.

01:12:17.400 I want to see if he can raise serious money.

01:12:19.460 OK.

01:12:19.760 Number three is effort.

01:12:21.280 Is he willing to get up every day with his young kids and living on the West Coast and do the 10 things that's necessary to do to run?

01:12:27.940 And then the last thing is, how do you handle a crisis?

01:12:30.560 How do you handle a political crisis when they come at you?

01:12:33.060 I don't think we've seen him handle political crisis particularly well.

01:12:36.240 Or real crises.

01:12:37.160 There's nothing rebuilt in L.A. whatsoever.

01:12:39.580 Not a single home is rebuilt.

01:12:41.680 But look at when he's been.

01:12:42.500 Like, remember that thing where he was on the cell phone and a lady was trying to talk to him?

01:12:45.300 Like, look at how Bill Clinton.

01:12:48.140 French laundry.

01:12:48.860 Look at how Donald Trump handled Access Hollywood.

01:12:52.340 Look at how Bill Clinton handled Jennifer Flowers in the draft. 0.95

01:12:54.980 Look at how Barack Obama handled Reverend Wright.

01:12:58.280 Like, I just don't see in him someone who digs deep when that stuff happens.

01:13:03.180 So in those four areas, he's not as great as he's been in some of these other things, as Dan pointed out.

01:13:08.760 And I just think there's reason to be skeptical that he's going to play at that level.

01:13:12.460 I'll tell you something about Rahm that we didn't get into today.

01:13:15.200 He's as vicious on Trump as Gavin Newsom is.

01:13:18.280 Like, we didn't get into Trump today.

01:13:19.960 He won't be running against Trump, notwithstanding what Steve Bannon says.

01:13:23.580 And so, but every Democrat is still going to run on Trump, right?

01:13:27.920 Like, whoever it is, whether it's J.D. or Marco or it could be Tulsi, who knows?

01:13:31.560 It's going to be all about Trump.

01:13:33.300 So I think he'll also appear as a fighter because he'll be out there saying the nastiest things possible about Donald Trump.

01:13:39.780 And I do wonder, though, like, how's that going to go?

01:13:42.800 Because I don't think Rahm Emanuel or Gavin Newsom or anybody else I've heard of on Team Blue

01:13:48.740 has the oratory skills of J.D. Vance or Marco Rubio, who are, I just think, going to eat their opponents alive.

01:13:58.220 And either one of those guys will kill them unless they increase their game by the time they get out there.

01:14:03.660 Well, even Gavin Newsom, they thought he was going to do great in that debate with DeSantis.

01:14:07.140 They're like, DeSantis, they're going to wipe the floor with him.

01:14:09.080 Newsom's this snake oil salesman, greasy guy, talker.

01:14:12.080 And he goes out there.

01:14:13.580 Ron DeSantis holds up like a poop map.

01:14:15.440 He just wipes the floor with Newsom.

01:14:17.100 I forgot about that.

01:14:17.860 Yeah.

01:14:18.280 I don't think people were expecting.

01:14:19.760 And Newsom kind of floundered and flailed.

01:14:21.460 And I think that's what happens when you press Newsom.

01:14:23.940 And we saw that in the Sean Ryan interview.

01:14:25.460 He was pressed very delicately about eight-year-olds transitioning and cross-sex hormones for kids.

01:14:30.200 Couldn't give a straight answer.

01:14:31.320 It was a lot of this sort of air traffic controller, Bob Fosse, jazz hands.

01:14:35.100 And he couldn't give an answer.

01:14:36.760 And so Gavin Newsom, I don't even think it's a guarantee.

01:14:38.980 Gavin Newsom makes it out of a primary.

01:14:40.880 Could you put him on a debate stage?

01:14:42.080 He crumbles so quickly.

01:14:43.580 Like, he seems unwell.

01:14:44.940 Like, something's off with him.

01:14:45.940 Like, he's going to crumble really fast.

01:14:47.520 I know what you mean.

01:14:48.100 Like, why does he gesticulate so violently?

01:14:52.260 More than Tim Walz.

01:14:53.160 It makes me distrust him, really.

01:14:55.020 Because I've said this before, but my CIA guy, Phil Houston, invented the deception detection program there.

01:15:01.240 They still use all over the world.

01:15:03.560 Hands above the midline is a tell, if coupled with another sign of deception, that you're lying.

01:15:08.400 It has to be two signs of deception within five seconds of asking the question.

01:15:13.220 This is not voodoo.

01:15:14.340 This is real.

01:15:15.300 He's a human lie detector.

01:15:16.520 He's outed bad guy terrorists who we thought were working for us.

01:15:20.440 He's found double agents within the CIA who we thought we were using against another country, but really, they'd been turned against us.

01:15:26.920 Phil Houston is the man.

01:15:28.520 And he's ready to arrest Gavin Newsom.

01:15:29.820 He says, no, he hasn't weighed in on Gavin.

01:15:33.240 But just FYI, hands above the midline can be a tell if it's coupled with another sign of deception.

01:15:36.940 I've literally never done that, by the way.

01:15:37.980 Like this.

01:15:38.540 I do it all the time, but I'm not a real blonde.

01:15:40.600 Watch out.

01:15:41.460 I'm deceiving you.

01:15:43.080 I'll do it when I'm, like, making a point.

01:15:45.120 It has to be coupled with something else, like a verbal attack.

01:15:48.740 Like, how could you ask me that kind of a question?

01:15:51.120 That's, I'm lying.

01:15:52.240 Like Nathan Thurm on Saturday Night Live.

01:15:53.900 Who's he?

01:15:54.580 He's a character who would say stuff like, maybe someone should interview you.

01:15:58.360 Maybe someone should investigate you.

01:16:00.020 Are you asking me all the questions?

01:16:01.600 All right.

01:16:01.880 So that's enough about Rahm Emanuel and Gavin Newsom.

01:16:04.400 This is a long way off, although kind of it's not.

01:16:06.740 It always starts early.

01:16:07.740 I don't know.

01:16:09.800 It's too soon.

01:16:10.840 Okay.

01:16:11.360 President Trump has been in there for six months.

01:16:12.920 Can I say one more thing about the very first question you asked him, why are you here?

01:16:15.960 I thought his answer was abysmal.

01:16:17.320 He just kind of joked about it.

01:16:18.360 You didn't like it.

01:16:18.980 He should have said, I want to reach every American.

01:16:21.120 You have a huge audience of people who have been trending Republican, and I want to win them back.

01:16:26.500 Not, I had nothing better to do.

01:16:27.900 I don't know.

01:16:28.160 I just thought that was, it set a tone.

01:16:32.020 If he's serious about reaching your audience, I just thought that was kind of disrespectful.

01:16:36.020 Come on bended knee with a bouquet of flowers.

01:16:38.200 Yeah.

01:16:38.620 Yeah.

01:16:39.080 That's a good point.

01:16:39.820 And say, we got to fight for every vote.

01:16:42.700 We can't let people who voted for Donald Trump vote Republican in four years.

01:16:45.820 And again, I'm not against joking.

01:16:49.680 I just think the reason that George Bush and Donald Trump and Bill Clinton and Barack Obama all won is because they ran simultaneously appealing both to their party and to a general election electorate.

01:17:01.660 And he just seemed to me just missed the opportunity to do that.

01:17:05.260 He told me before the interview, and I don't think he would mind if I repeated that because he seemed to suggest he might tell the story himself, that he was here in part because his sister-in-law listens to the show and heard me say something nice about him.

01:17:22.700 He should have said that.

01:17:23.840 Blended family could have done an answer like that.

01:17:25.500 Yeah.

01:17:25.580 So he was like, well, maybe she'll give me a fair shot and I'll go over there.

01:17:28.600 And I did.

01:17:29.380 And so, listen, when he comes back, we'll see if he does better, if he takes these pieces of advice to heart.

01:17:34.260 But I want to talk about Trump because there's been a very interesting development now within the intel community around Trump.

01:17:42.560 Tulsi Gabbard late on Friday.

01:17:44.840 And I just want to say, as on all things, I am a truly honest broker on this.

01:17:48.960 I'm still trying to figure out what's real.

01:17:51.300 I don't know.

01:17:52.680 Like who she is accusing of what, for instance.

01:17:54.920 No, whether she's right and Matt Taibbi, who I love, is right, that this is a bombshell and it's terrible and people really could go to jail.

01:18:05.020 Or whether Andy McCarthy at National Review, who I love and respect and who's a totally honest broker too, is correct, that this is a complete nothing burger and she's totally off and apparently hasn't read her own CIA director's release of last week.

01:18:20.720 And that he would suggest she hasn't really been following the Russiagate scandal because everything she just told us is old.

01:18:28.460 And so I'm really trying to figure out.

01:18:30.680 But just to set it up for the audience, this is very complex.

01:18:32.640 On Friday night, Tulsi Gabbard went on Fox News and said that she'd found documents that she was releasing that show, in sum and substance, that one day the intelligence community under Barack Obama was ready to come out and say that the Russians did not interfere in the 2016 election and really had no part in it.

01:18:58.840 And that whole thing was kind of bullshit.

01:19:01.780 Then Barack Obama pulled them all into the White House. 0.84

01:19:04.420 They had a big meeting.

01:19:05.540 And then literally the next day, they were like, Russia interfered to help Trump and leaked it to all the reporters, Washington Post.

01:19:15.360 And the suggestion is that Obama turned to them and said, I'm not having a report coming out of you guys saying that they didn't interfere.

01:19:23.840 Our whole narrative is that Hillary would have won had it not been for the Russians. 0.95

01:19:27.760 Now, give me a report that says that.

01:19:29.400 That's the implication.

01:19:30.880 And that then the intel community did it and the subservient Washington Press Corps ran with it.

01:19:37.520 And that's how the narrative really took off, that the Russians had gotten Trump elected.

01:19:43.640 OK, so Andy McCarthy's point in response is, OK, you're talking apples and oranges.

01:19:49.960 What they said prior to the Obama meeting was we've seen nothing to suggest the Russians hacked election machines, even though they tried in a couple of places, but that they didn't they were not able to do anything technical technologically that would have altered the outcome in election with with raw vote.

01:20:09.380 Then they have the Obama meeting and then they come out and it's true that their report that they issued then was all about the ways Russia did interfere, like fake articles about Hillary, bots that circulated negative news about her and they hacked the DNC mail, which is how we have a lot of the admissions we have from her and her terrible family.

01:20:32.340 Anyway, he's saying it's apples to oranges.

01:20:36.160 And while she is producing now emails that do show they were ready to say no interference when it comes to election machines prior, that we kind of knew everything that she's saying already.

01:20:49.020 I'm going to show you her announcement.

01:20:50.300 I think we have it, guys, don't we?

01:20:51.280 On Friday night.

01:20:53.540 Yeah.

01:20:54.120 Sat 9.

01:20:54.660 Let's play it.

01:20:56.880 Spells out in great detail exactly what happens when you have some of the most

01:21:02.340 powerful people in our country directly leading at the helm of President Obama and his senior most national security cabinet, James Comey, John Brennan, James Clapper and Susan Rice and others essentially making a very intentional decision to create this manufactured politicized piece of intelligence with the objective of subverting the will of the American people.

01:21:30.720 The list goes on and on about the consequences of President Obama and his senior cabinet members politicizing intelligence once again.

01:21:40.800 And I say these words very clearly to enact what was essentially a years long coup subverting the will of the American people.

01:21:49.920 One of the other points Andy made was that he's not a fan of Tulsi.

01:21:52.940 He wasn't behind her confirmation.

01:21:54.180 But he's also saying it's not a surprise to him that Tulsi Gabbard would try to exonerate Russia entirely and instead blame America, right?

01:22:01.440 Like sort of say Russia didn't do anything whatsoever.

01:22:04.200 And his point is she's overstating it.

01:22:06.160 Russia did do some things, but it didn't cost Hillary the election. 1.00

01:22:09.640 Andy doesn't contend that.

01:22:11.660 But that we're now sort of manufacturing something for press clicks and possibly indictments that may not be there.

01:22:19.580 Anybody want to take this?

01:22:22.040 I mean, look, I'll say this.

01:22:24.120 I am with you.

01:22:26.060 I'm not sure what she's doing because I think what she's trying to argue is it wasn't determinative to the outcome.

01:22:31.700 But there is no debate.

01:22:33.380 Russia tried to influence the election.

01:22:35.500 As you say, they bought ads on YouTube.

01:22:37.400 They bought ads on Facebook.

01:22:38.820 They had chat bots.

01:22:39.960 They hacked email.

01:22:41.120 They wanted Donald Trump to win.

01:22:43.140 Now, the question was, did the Trump campaign collude?

01:22:45.660 Robert Mueller ruled there was no definitive proof that they colluded.

01:22:48.680 But I'm not sure what I almost get the sense that what she's saying is like they didn't try to interfere in the election.

01:22:54.860 And what's also fact is the Obama administration the last month of the campaign was aware of what was going on and struggled.

01:23:02.280 Do they go public with this?

01:23:03.380 Do they put it out?

01:23:04.280 If we do, it's going to look like we're trying to tip the scales.

01:23:07.480 After the election, they huddled and said, we need to get out both as like a PSA.

01:23:12.300 Hey, Russia, you tried to do this and we're aware of it. 0.95

01:23:15.040 And then they said, was there collusion?

01:23:17.080 Was there perhaps something more there?

01:23:19.400 I think that latter part they wanted to put out into the kind of, you know, mainstream to be like someone needs to go look at this.

01:23:25.680 Right. And obviously that enraged Trump.

01:23:26.980 And he didn't want, you know, he wanted and he wanted everyone to know that he he did this.

01:23:31.420 But I'm not sure what she's implying.

01:23:33.600 If there's real signs of crime or now, then by, you know, goodness, put it out and let the public see it.

01:23:39.940 But I'm very skeptical.

01:23:42.400 I don't know.

01:23:42.660 Have you looked at this?

01:23:43.300 And it's it's very smart people who I normally trust are in diametric disagreement on it.

01:23:48.100 If she sees a crime, she's got to say who and what law they broke.

01:23:51.680 It's just too vague.

01:23:52.840 I'll pick up on a point Dan made, which I know because I did a lot of reporting on this.

01:23:57.480 They really did struggle with what to say.

01:24:00.360 They didn't want to let the Russians go on called out in public.

01:24:03.820 But they also didn't want to be accused of trying to make it seem like the Russians were doing something.

01:24:09.660 They were pretending the Russians were doing something to help Hillary.

01:24:11.960 I actually think there's 19 things you could list that, say, cost Hillary Clinton the election.

01:24:16.180 And this is one of them.

01:24:17.100 It was very close.

01:24:17.800 You don't know what would have happened otherwise.

01:24:19.640 But I think Russia helped helped Trump win substantially, not through collusion, but because they wanted Trump to win.

01:24:25.800 And that is something she's playing down.

01:24:28.100 What she's playing up is that they somehow broke the law in trying to protect Hillary Clinton.

01:24:32.960 And again, she's suggesting they manufactured it.

01:24:35.060 She's she's basically suggesting this is the same thing as covid, where the scientists went from.

01:24:39.880 This looks like it came from a lab.

01:24:41.980 We've never seen such a virus from an animal.

01:24:44.340 And then after Fauci and Collins browbeated them, they came out and they were like, it's definitely not from a lab.

01:24:50.420 It's from a pangolin.

01:24:51.960 They they they're they're people associated with Barack Obama who leaned into collusion without a doubt.

01:24:57.060 And that wrong.

01:24:58.180 I don't know if it's against the law.

01:24:59.420 It was dirty pool.

01:25:00.600 But mostly what they said was the Russians interfered with the election.

01:25:03.760 And they did.

01:25:04.680 I think this is a little bit of cosmic karma.

01:25:07.540 Everything comes full circle because Tulsi was accused by Hillary Clinton and the Obamas, I believe, of being like a Russian asset.

01:25:13.580 And she went on The View and said she's owned by Russia.

01:25:15.520 She's a Russian puppet. 1.00

01:25:16.640 And Tulsi was coming out saying, I'm nobody's puppet.

01:25:18.740 I've served this country.

01:25:19.780 You know, I'm a woman in uniform, as she is.

01:25:21.480 And she's a rock star.

01:25:23.040 But, yeah, no, I think this is a little bit of cosmic karma.

01:25:24.900 She gets to now come out and say, ha, look at what we've just uncovered in these files.

01:25:28.480 But I think it's Monday.

01:25:29.360 Maybe by the end of the day, we'll have more information because I read on the way over here.

01:25:33.060 She's now given something to the DOJ.

01:25:34.980 She said it's going to come out this week.

01:25:36.520 We're going to see leak, leak, leak.

01:25:38.300 I think it was a weird Friday night to make the announcement with everything going on.

01:25:41.340 Yes, I know.

01:25:42.200 Why?

01:25:42.680 Why?

01:25:43.120 They put out news that's bad for them heading into a weekend after a holiday.

01:25:47.020 They put out news that's good for them on Friday night.

01:25:49.000 Hannity will be here Monday, so I don't know.

01:25:51.440 That might have been an Epstein circuit.

01:25:53.580 I was just going to say.

01:25:54.660 Maybe.

01:25:55.380 I'm not sure that's going to work either.

01:25:56.980 We'll talk about that when we come back.

01:25:57.980 Let's take a break, and then we will discuss where we are in Epsteinpalooza.

01:26:02.220 Stand by.

01:26:03.020 Okay.

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01:27:45.940 I'm Chris Hadfield.

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01:29:19.280 So, you were saying before the break, it's fancy here, isn't it?

01:29:23.520 It's fancy.

01:29:23.920 It's something I can steal.

01:29:25.660 Yeah.

01:29:26.020 Like an ashtray.

01:29:27.440 Do I have ashtrays?

01:29:28.200 You know what's funny?

01:29:28.840 I don't think anybody does anymore.

01:29:30.740 The same guy has been driving me and my family for like since I started at Fox.

01:29:35.660 Super nice man.

01:29:37.240 And he was dropping me off today and he said, you know, Megan, you've been coming to this same location.

01:29:41.820 Because Sirius is right across from Fox and right across from NBC.

01:29:45.360 He's like, for like almost 20 years now.

01:29:48.460 You just, as long as you can spit a watermelon seed far enough to hit the other building, that's good for you.

01:29:53.880 You know, it's like this is media central and it does bring back a lot of memories.

01:29:57.300 Anyway, so we were saying before the break that possibly the Tulsi Gabbard thing was a head fake to change the topic of conversation from Epstein.

01:30:05.040 Did it work?

01:30:05.500 Well, it's hard to know, right?

01:30:07.460 Because what the the the two intervening things that seem bigger around Epstein, one is the Wall Street Journal story, which rallied MAGA back towards the president.

01:30:16.640 Yeah.

01:30:16.880 And the other is the announcement of the filing to release.

01:30:20.120 That's the grand jury transcripts to be released.

01:30:22.260 I think those two things did the most to take the steam out of it for the media, even though the New York Times now seems obsessed with reviving it.

01:30:29.760 So I want to say two things.

01:30:31.000 I don't think we're going to learn much from the grand jury, you know, files at all.

01:30:34.520 And I think the Trump administration knows that.

01:30:36.200 So, you know, he says, oh, nothing I do will ever satisfy them, which is true.

01:30:40.300 But this definitely won't.

01:30:41.600 Like this won't even come close.

01:30:43.020 It's not a good faith effort to say.

01:30:44.580 It's definitely not a good faith effort.

01:30:45.880 But secondly, on the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal hit piece, it was so lame.

01:30:52.020 It was the best thing Trump could have asked for.

01:30:53.780 And I realize he came back swinging.

01:30:55.280 But even if he had it, like there's nothing we on the right hate more than the left's fake news hit pieces on Donald Trump.

01:31:03.640 We've seen so many of them.

01:31:05.060 The guy literally took a bullet.

01:31:06.640 He's been put through hell.

01:31:08.080 Like we have all had it up to here with the with the false attacks on Donald Trump.

01:31:12.420 And so the best thing that the left, and I include the journals report in that, could have done was just be quiet and let it stay a Trump slash influencer problem.

01:31:21.280 Don't help because that only makes people on the right want to drop it and defend him.

01:31:26.560 And that's kind of where I am.

01:31:27.660 Like it was such a lame.

01:31:29.140 I'm very interested in what the truth about Epstein is.

01:31:31.520 Very interested.

01:31:32.780 You try to tell me the whole scandals about Donald Trump.

01:31:35.700 Fuck off.

01:31:36.240 I'm out.

01:31:36.800 Like that's that's a lie.

01:31:38.360 We know that we would know that by now if it were true.

01:31:40.720 I will not be your truth warrior on that because I know it's not right.

01:31:44.360 But I do want real answers in the underlying scandal.

01:31:46.800 Go ahead, Link.

01:31:47.220 You know, I just feel like the left really wants to tie Trump to Epstein more closely.

01:31:51.080 And I think that's what the Wall Street Journal really was about.

01:31:53.060 I mean, I just have a hard time believing he's sitting there drawing and doing this.

01:31:56.660 The whole thing sounded really silly to me.

01:31:58.400 And then there's also still this narrative online that, you know, maybe Trump visited the island.

01:32:01.700 I'm like the guy doesn't even stay in hotels that don't have his name on it.

01:32:04.620 I certainly don't think he visited the island, but they want to keep tying Trump to Epstein.

01:32:08.380 I think J.D. Vance is still looking like a winner because he doesn't seem as mired down in the Epstein stuff.

01:32:12.900 J.D. Vance, I don't think he's spoken about it as much.

01:32:15.060 He's now rallying around the president with the Wall Street Journal story as he should.

01:32:18.400 So I think going into 2028, I don't see this Epstein stuff having really any bearing on the election.

01:32:22.560 He brokered the peace between the FBI guys, Kash Patel and Dan Bongino and Trump.

01:32:28.200 Right.

01:32:28.840 And because Trump was mad at them after the like she goes or I go thing with Dan.

01:32:33.540 And that reportedly J.D. Vance stepped in.

01:32:35.460 Want me to take an opposing view?

01:32:36.400 Yeah, go for it.

01:32:37.000 Do it.

01:32:37.580 OK.

01:32:38.400 Trump is making these decisions about what the country learns about something people are really interested in.

01:32:43.240 Yes.

01:32:43.680 And and he's got a conflict.

01:32:45.600 He was close friends with the person at the center of this.

01:32:48.040 How close?

01:32:48.600 I think the Wall Street Journal story, if true, speaks to that.

01:32:51.420 You say he stays in his own hotels.

01:32:53.440 I've never heard of Donald Trump flying on anyone else's plane ever flies on his plane.

01:32:57.400 He flew on Epstein's plane.

01:32:59.180 That suggests something.

01:33:00.440 Again, I'm not assuming facts, not in evidence.

01:33:02.160 I'm not saying the president broke any laws.

01:33:04.020 I'm not saying he did anything improper, but he was close friends with the guy for 15 years.

01:33:07.860 Yeah.

01:33:08.160 And so he should really be recused from this in terms of the public interest and confidence in decision making.

01:33:13.520 So any story that illustrates or claims to illustrate their closeness, I think, just speak to that.

01:33:18.660 You think about it.

01:33:19.600 He shouldn't be the one deciding these things because they're bad as good friends.

01:33:23.840 That's a pipe.

01:33:24.240 But let me tell you something.

01:33:25.220 My own feeling is not that Trump has something to hide in these files.

01:33:28.820 I really don't believe that.

01:33:29.900 But I do believe Trump probably has some powerful donors and or friends.

01:33:33.780 Which is why he shouldn't be deciding.

01:33:35.880 But I think that's the question.

01:33:36.680 He's got a conflict.

01:33:37.640 Is that the question, it dies down if there's nothing, if there's no more new oxygen.

01:33:41.900 But I think we've all probably heard there are more stories in the works.

01:33:45.100 Now, they may not ever see the light of day.

01:33:47.580 There may not be anything there.

01:33:49.200 But I think, to Mark's point, they were close friends.

01:33:52.220 New York and Palm Beach are small worlds.

01:33:54.160 We're sitting in, you know, one of them right now.

01:33:56.720 If there's another story and it starts to get closer to him, then I think this continues to have more oxygen and people start, you know, it brings it back in front of the public.

01:34:04.840 People demand stuff.

01:34:05.800 And to Mark's point, people start thinking, is Trump hiding something about his friends or about him or what is it?

01:34:12.980 Trump brought that piece of it on himself.

01:34:15.920 If Trump had just stayed consistent with the base, and this had never been Trump's issue.

01:34:21.060 You know, he really hadn't been touting Epstein on the campaign trail, though his son touted it many, many times, and so did his top deputies and his emissaries out on the campaign trail.

01:34:29.360 But if Trump hadn't done that weird answer at that cabinet meeting and then gone on the attack against the MAGA base, nobody would be thinking this is like a Trump scandal.

01:34:40.200 They just, he's making it, he's so defensive on it, it's making people be like, whoa, there's the target right there.

01:34:47.460 Go ahead, Link.

01:34:47.680 Is there a simpler explanation here?

01:34:49.380 When I look at President Trump, I think, is he bored, right?

01:34:51.920 Sometimes I look at him and go, is he bored by something?

01:34:53.800 That's sometimes an explanation.

01:34:55.320 And I think President Trump, because he doesn't live on X, because he has Fox rolling 24-7, that's what he watches, they're not really covering Epstein that much.

01:35:02.720 And I don't think he really gets everything that's happening on X in the podcast space with the discussion around Epstein.

01:35:07.940 I think President Trump is also frustrated because he had weeks of just consistent winning, right, when it came to the border, the Iranian nuclear facilities, going down to Texas with the grieving families.

01:35:16.340 I know, because I was there.

01:35:17.540 But President Trump had weeks and weeks of winning.

01:35:19.980 And then now he's like, you guys want to talk about Epstein, this loser scumbag?

01:35:23.000 His attorney general should not put out that memo.

01:35:25.220 Right, but he is going to stand by.

01:35:28.060 She is not going any freaking where.

01:35:29.940 Even what's so funny to me is at that FIFA soccer game, Pam Bondi was in the box.

01:35:33.720 So was Rupert Murdoch.

01:35:34.740 And now he's stealing Rupert Murdoch five days later.

01:35:36.440 But, yeah, I think Pam Bondi's not going anywhere. 0.89

01:35:39.000 She's Florida. 0.66

01:35:39.720 Susie Wiles likes her. 1.00

01:35:41.040 And she's good on cable.

01:35:42.240 And so I don't see her going anywhere anytime soon.

01:35:43.920 I don't know if I agree with that.

01:35:45.100 I really don't.

01:35:45.680 Because I believe Trump likes her and doesn't want to switch out his AG.

01:35:48.940 And Susie Wiles likes her. 1.00

01:35:50.580 But the base has turned on her.

01:35:52.700 They will forgive the big man.

01:35:55.500 They're not going to forgive her.

01:35:57.040 Mark my words.

01:35:57.920 I think it'll take some time.

01:35:58.940 Like with the Mike Waltz situation, I don't think he's going to give a dog a bone right now and give you the body and the head that you want.

01:36:04.460 Could I see her going and being moved and shifted down the road?

01:36:07.120 So I don't see it happening now in the dog days of summer.

01:36:08.720 And my information is that she's miserable anyway.

01:36:10.600 I don't think she's happy anyway.

01:36:12.240 I'm comfortable with the status quo.

01:36:13.820 Yeah.

01:36:14.240 It's so remarkable, too, because he's so culturally deft.

01:36:17.560 He so has his finger on the pulse of his base, of what's being talked about around the country.

01:36:23.320 This is the first time in 10 years that I've just seen him on the wrong side of this.

01:36:27.300 Repeatedly, to your point, he's dug in about it.

01:36:29.400 And that is surprising, right?

01:36:31.120 You would just think he's so smart and so clever that he would see this.

01:36:34.600 He'd shift other than, you know, throwing out something like the Russia with Pelosi Gabbard.

01:36:40.180 When does he make that move?

01:36:41.880 Right.

01:36:42.100 And how does he do it?

01:36:43.080 Because as a Democrat, I just am like, whoa, you're so on your back foot.

01:36:47.040 You can't get off it.

01:36:49.220 I know this is a weird place to go with it.

01:36:51.240 But in a way, it kind of reminds me of what happened at Fox with the Gretchen Carlson investigations.

01:36:56.920 She filed this lawsuit. 0.99

01:36:58.100 Nobody liked Gretchen. 1.00

01:36:59.200 No one really wanted to deal with her.

01:37:01.320 We all knew she got fired because she had terrible ratings and she wasn't popular. 1.00

01:37:04.780 But then she dug up this Me Too allegation, which we were all like, oh, sure, whatever.

01:37:08.980 You know, even I was like, there's no way that's why she got fired.

01:37:12.060 And even though I knew what Roger had done with me, to me, not with me, years earlier.

01:37:17.940 But what was happening in that case was Roger had managed to limit the investigation into Gretchen's allegations to only the team that worked with her on her show, which would mean he would never get that the investigators, Lachlan and Rupert and their lawyers would never get to the women who actually had stories.

01:37:37.900 And this grand jury thing has that feel to me.

01:37:43.200 Like, I don't think we're going to hear anything from those grand jury files regarding any Trump friends, any super rich New Yorker or Floridian who because, you know, Julie K. Brown, as annoying as she is, was on was it Ross Do Thoughts, whatever his last name is, Douthat's podcast over the weekend.

01:38:01.440 And she was once again reminding us all that there he is believed, Jeffrey, to have trafficked girls to third parties, to other rich men.

01:38:11.740 And she was naming some very rich men.

01:38:14.220 I'm not going to name them here.

01:38:15.320 You can listen to the podcast if you want to.

01:38:16.700 As, like, having made Jeffrey super rich, super fast, other than just Les Wexner, the Victoria's Secret guy, other than him.

01:38:25.740 And it just really got me thinking again about the fact that there really are reports.

01:38:29.840 There are women out there who can point the finger at a third man or a fourth man or a fifth man. 1.00

01:38:34.700 And I got dollars to donuts that those names probably aren't in the grand jury.

01:38:38.880 But the point of it was to just say we're doing something.

01:38:41.100 We're for disclosure and see where the story goes.

01:38:43.980 And from their point of view, I hope it goes away, which it could.

01:38:46.900 I'm also never really into file dumps.

01:38:48.880 Like, people said, we want JFK.

01:38:50.200 We want RFK.

01:38:50.860 We want all these files.

01:38:51.540 And then they made noise for, like, six hours online.

01:38:53.560 And we didn't really learn that much.

01:38:54.720 There was no big bombshell.

01:38:55.840 The earth didn't come to an end.

01:38:57.040 Nothing shattering happened.

01:38:58.240 So I don't really lose sleep over it.

01:38:59.620 Like, if we learn something new, we learn something new.

01:39:01.380 But I don't find it all that interesting.

01:39:02.860 Well, let me ask you this.

01:39:03.940 What's the net effect of all of this?

01:39:05.980 Because, you know, my own feeling is I didn't like how Trump handled this, especially last week.

01:39:10.820 But it didn't change my feelings about Trump.

01:39:12.760 You know, I still support him.

01:39:14.400 I still think he's incredibly good for the country.

01:39:17.080 He is chalking up so many wins.

01:39:19.620 So, like, you look at the fact that Trump is getting boys out of girls sports.

01:39:23.760 He is stopping the mutilation of children.

01:39:25.540 He is closing down the border.

01:39:26.700 He is deporting dangerous illegals. 1.00

01:39:28.400 Well, that matters way more to me than about Epstein.

01:39:31.080 But there are people in Coramaga for whom, you know, this is a very big issue.

01:39:35.200 And it speaks not to just, like, their conspiratorial nature.

01:39:37.640 But, like, the system that protects corrupt rich guys and shits on the little people.

01:39:44.860 And that could be an ongoing problem.

01:39:47.040 I think it's huge because, look, the last three elections have been games of inches.

01:39:51.040 Two, three percent, right?

01:39:52.060 Trump barely wins in 16, barely loses in 20, barely wins in 24.

01:39:55.600 As you just said, for the first time in 10 years, Trump and his movement have been defending

01:40:03.500 the status quo, defending institutions, right?

01:40:06.540 You know, Charlie Kirk saying, I trust the government.

01:40:08.580 Like, we haven't heard that in a decade.

01:40:11.540 And for these younger people, and I give Trump tons of credit to get all these young people

01:40:16.580 to buy into him, to buy into MAGA, to believe in him.

01:40:19.500 But they're saying, wait a second, this is no different than what we kind of heard during

01:40:24.700 COVID.

01:40:25.560 You know, some people go back to the Iraq War, and Rahm kind of touched on all these different

01:40:30.320 things.

01:40:31.480 That's where I say, he's tone deaf a little.

01:40:33.640 How does he fix that?

01:40:35.360 Not that they're rushing to us Democrats yet, because we have a huge trust problem with them.

01:40:39.500 But for the first time, we've been about change.

01:40:42.220 We've been about transparency.

01:40:44.360 And the Republicans are just-

01:40:45.720 That's where you fell off the cliff, Dan.

01:40:47.380 But also, Dan-

01:40:48.220 You got to start somewhere.

01:40:48.960 Maybe Elon Musk and his America Party, maybe they'll get a couple.

01:40:52.640 But they're not going Democrats.

01:40:53.660 Here's my thing.

01:40:54.240 If I'm President Trump, right, he's looking at these polls that even CNN is running that

01:40:57.300 he's gone up the last week or two, even with all the Epstein stuff.

01:41:00.100 And I think one of the takeaways is, even if they're really loud voices on X and in the

01:41:03.800 podcast space, they might not have as much effect on these polls and in the broader

01:41:07.760 electorate.

01:41:08.300 I think for President Trump, because he's not living in those online spaces, he's like, I'm

01:41:12.060 winning.

01:41:12.380 I'm killing it.

01:41:12.920 We've got the most secure border.

01:41:14.020 Why aren't you talking about this?

01:41:15.280 I'm bored with Epstein.

01:41:16.100 I think it's really that for me.

01:41:17.860 I don't think it's so much the friends or there's some secret thing he's hiding.

01:41:20.860 I think he's like, I'm bored.

01:41:22.000 Why are we talking about this guy?

01:41:23.340 He's dead.

01:41:23.600 He's gone.

01:41:24.320 Some piece of Trump genuinely believes this is a Democrat conspiracy, that this is a long

01:41:29.240 trap that's been laid by Democrats somehow.

01:41:31.780 I haven't totally figured it out.

01:41:33.520 But I think he there is a piece of him that does genuinely believe this is like some sort

01:41:37.440 of a thing that's been laid for him.

01:41:38.600 And I reported this earlier.

01:41:40.160 I was told by a few people that there is a belief.

01:41:43.520 This is not confirmed that there's a belief that there were some like poison pills put in

01:41:48.280 the files by the Biden team before leaving office that that would make it such that Trump

01:41:53.880 wouldn't want to release the files.

01:41:55.360 I have no idea whether that's true.

01:41:56.420 But now I've heard it from a couple of people.

01:41:57.980 And even the Trump, even President Trump intimated it credible.

01:42:00.880 I want them to put out the credible documents is what President Trump keeps saying now when

01:42:04.340 he's gaggling.

01:42:05.040 She can put out anything that's credible.

01:42:07.000 And so I think he's just worried there could be some stuff in there that's supposed to paint

01:42:10.700 him in a negative light.

01:42:11.560 And he's like, I'm winning so much.

01:42:12.800 My polling is great.

01:42:13.660 Why are we talking about this guy?

01:42:14.460 Why don't you just love me the way I deserve to be loved?

01:42:16.060 I think he's bored with it.

01:42:17.320 I think he's so bored in the news that he's watching isn't covering Epstein at all.

01:42:21.140 And his aides might be coming to him saying, this is really big online.

01:42:24.040 This is big online.

01:42:24.720 And I think he's like, I'm sick of this.

01:42:26.140 Yeah, I don't like online.

01:42:27.140 So Mark Halpern, does it affect him in any way, shape, or form or no?

01:42:31.160 I don't think so.

01:42:32.000 I think it's the 485th lesson that we all should be humble and remember that Donald Trump understands

01:42:37.960 MAGA better than we do.

01:42:39.140 Yeah.

01:42:39.780 And politics in general.

01:42:41.300 The guy's instincts for it have been spot on.

01:42:43.920 Spot on.

01:42:45.020 Pun intended.

01:42:46.000 Trademark copyright.

01:42:46.920 And he can do stuff and say stuff that other people can't.

01:42:50.400 Yeah.

01:42:50.780 I think it's also July.

01:42:52.000 I was talking about this with someone yesterday.

01:42:53.500 Like, it's the middle of summer.

01:42:54.760 It's July.

01:42:55.560 I think a lot of people are at home.

01:42:56.540 I think by, you know, a couple of weeks, we won't even be discussing this.

01:42:58.960 Well, maybe that's why they released it when they did.

01:43:01.220 You know, because it's summer.

01:43:02.240 But I was just amazed that they released it during such a slow news time when the media

01:43:06.360 is always looking for something to chew on.

01:43:08.200 Yeah.

01:43:08.460 And this has been such a juicy story.

01:43:10.460 If they're super sophisticated, maybe they figured out it can burn out over the summer.

01:43:14.660 Same way BBB is going to burn out by the time we actually get to the midterm.

01:43:18.620 It's happening.

01:43:19.260 All right, guys.

01:43:20.160 A pleasure.

01:43:21.020 Thank you.

01:43:21.420 Thank you all for being here.

01:43:22.520 We never get to be in the same room.

01:43:24.440 Yeah, it's wonderful.

01:43:25.300 Okay.

01:43:27.360 Tomorrow, we've got another MK Media star, one of the EJs, Emily Jashinsky, will be here

01:43:32.040 for the full show.

01:43:33.060 Don't miss that.

01:43:36.540 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. 0.94

01:43:38.640 No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

01:43:41.180 We'll be right back.

The Megyn Kelly Show - July 21, 2025

Rahm Emanuel on How the Dems Lost Their Way and Trump's Immigration Successes, Plus, Mark Halperin, Link Lauren and Dan Turrentine ｜ Ep. 1112

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