The Megyn Kelly Show - Real COVID Risk to Kids and Biden's Lagging Leadership, with Charles C.W. Cooke and David Wallace-Wells

00:00:00.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal

00:00:02.160 on a wool coat from Winners,

00:00:03.760 I started wondering,

00:00:05.440 is every fabulous item I see from Winners?

00:00:08.560 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans.

00:00:10.900 Are those from Winners?

00:00:12.780 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings?

00:00:15.260 Did she pay full price?

00:00:16.600 Or that leather tote?

00:00:17.620 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:00:18.840 Or those knee-high boots?

00:00:20.280 That dress?

00:00:21.060 That jacket?

00:00:21.740 Those shoes?

00:00:22.780 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:00:25.720 Stop wondering.

00:00:26.980 Start winning.

00:00:27.920 Winners.

00:00:28.500 Find fabulous for less.

00:00:30.580 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.520 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.160 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:43.960 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.380 We are diving into COVID reality today

00:00:47.840 with David Wallace-Wells of New York Magazine.

00:00:50.320 Later this show, how worried should we be about Omicron?

00:00:54.180 And what's the path out of the fear

00:00:56.480 and toward a life of living with the pandemic,

00:00:59.560 the left needs a plan, needs to get on board with a plan,

00:01:04.540 and he can speak to that.

00:01:06.560 But first, our good friend Charles C.W. Cook of National Review

00:01:09.880 is here on the latest Supreme Court vaccine mandate ruling,

00:01:13.560 Biden's tough Build Back Better sell,

00:01:16.280 the transgender swimmer making waves in collegiate athletics,

00:01:19.580 and much, much more.

00:01:20.980 Charles, welcome back.

00:01:21.660 Good to see you.

00:01:22.480 Thanks for having me.

00:01:24.060 Okay, so where to begin?

00:01:25.340 Let's start with Build Back Better,

00:01:26.480 which I know is one of your favorite topics.

00:01:28.080 And the last time you were on,

00:01:29.640 the last thing I said to you was,

00:01:31.080 I love your love-hate relationship with Joe Manchin,

00:01:34.240 depending on the day,

00:01:35.300 depending on how the tea leaves read,

00:01:38.120 on whether he's going to vote for this thing or not.

00:01:40.320 The administration's saying

00:01:41.400 they want it done by Christmas.

00:01:43.400 You know, it's pretty late.

00:01:45.680 I mean, that's pretty soon to get this thing passed.

00:01:48.060 And Joe Manchin has been turning on them

00:01:50.560 on a couple of other pieces of their agenda.

00:01:53.980 So how are you reading said tea leaves right now?

00:01:57.640 Well, I think that the conditions have led Joe Manchin

00:02:03.320 to become more skeptical than he was,

00:02:06.260 and that at the very least,

00:02:08.760 that's going to push this past Christmas.

00:02:11.540 Two things have happened since we last spoke.

00:02:13.260 One, inflation has got worse,

00:02:15.300 and it's been confirmed in the numbers.

00:02:17.620 I think there are very few people now

00:02:19.300 who are denying that this is here,

00:02:21.720 maybe not permanently,

00:02:23.520 but on more than a transitory basis.

00:02:26.520 That worries Joe Manchin.

00:02:28.520 And the other thing is that the CBO

00:02:31.700 has scored the bill on the assumption

00:02:35.200 that its provisions will be made permanent.

00:02:38.100 Now, Democrats are complaining about that.

00:02:40.060 Basically, that's not what the bill does.

00:02:41.780 But, you know, we know that

00:02:43.260 Republicans, too,

00:02:44.300 when political parties make big changes,

00:02:46.680 they don't want them for a couple of years.

00:02:49.580 They want them forever.

00:02:51.400 And it's not unreasonable for Republicans to say,

00:02:55.420 what would this bill do if they got their wish?

00:02:58.400 Well, what this bill would do

00:03:00.420 if the Democrats got their wish

00:03:02.600 is add $3 trillion to the deficit.

00:03:05.300 And Joe Manchin has been quite clear

00:03:07.260 that he opposes any bill of that size

00:03:11.000 that is unpaid for

00:03:12.320 and that will eventually increase America's indebtedness.

00:03:16.440 So it's looking better for the bill's opponents.

00:03:20.100 The bill is also fairly unpopular now.

00:03:22.040 But you never know.

00:03:25.080 When parties have an incentive to pass something

00:03:29.660 to avoid media headlines saying that the president's tenure

00:03:34.840 and momentum is over,

00:03:36.840 they often find the votes.

00:03:38.000 True, but Biden's approval rating

00:03:41.500 in West Virginia is dreadful.

00:03:44.100 And so Joe Manchin has other things to worry about.

00:03:47.880 It's not like this is an incredibly powerful,

00:03:49.980 popular president

00:03:51.260 who he'll get credit for supporting.

00:03:54.160 I mean, it feels like his voters

00:03:56.120 might give him credit for tanking this bill,

00:03:59.320 this huge spending bill

00:04:00.760 at a time we have record inflation.

00:04:02.160 And I wonder,

00:04:03.440 because what he said earlier this week

00:04:05.400 was he's repeating his calls

00:04:07.240 for a political pause,

00:04:09.700 echoing something he first said in September.

00:04:11.680 He wants a pause on this.

00:04:13.440 And that's at the time when the CBO is saying

00:04:15.940 it's going to add $3 trillion.

00:04:17.520 The number's even bigger,

00:04:18.540 depending on who you ask.

00:04:20.700 The Penn-Wharton budget model,

00:04:23.140 according to the Wall Street Journal,

00:04:24.060 has scored the 10-year cost around $4.6 trillion.

00:04:27.640 And people are feeling

00:04:29.480 the already staggering inflation

00:04:31.680 in their pocketbooks.

00:04:33.140 So I do wonder,

00:04:33.840 if you're sitting in West Virginia

00:04:34.880 and you're paying more for your eggs,

00:04:37.020 for your used car,

00:04:38.180 for your milk,

00:04:39.020 for your electronics,

00:04:40.560 and you see your guy

00:04:42.200 as pretty much the last stalwart

00:04:44.940 between more spending,

00:04:47.240 which you know will come back to haunt you,

00:04:48.960 and a pause,

00:04:50.800 don't you want him,

00:04:51.660 aren't you calling his office

00:04:52.680 saying don't do this?

00:04:54.100 I think so.

00:04:54.880 And I've been arguing for a while

00:04:57.660 that in one sense,

00:04:59.680 Joe Manchin has played this perfectly

00:05:01.460 for West Virginia

00:05:03.140 and for Joe Manchin.

00:05:04.980 Joe Manchin is not a Republican.

00:05:06.840 I know he's a thorn in the side

00:05:07.940 of the Democrats,

00:05:08.680 but he is a Democrat.

00:05:09.900 He's a moderate one.

00:05:11.640 And West Virginia,

00:05:12.940 although once Joe Manchin retires,

00:05:15.020 it will be a Republican state

00:05:16.600 for a while,

00:05:17.560 still has a slightly different character

00:05:19.400 than a state such as, say, Texas.

00:05:21.620 And you can see this

00:05:23.040 in that the Build Back Better bill

00:05:26.920 we're discussing

00:05:27.780 is extremely unpopular.

00:05:30.500 It has 26% support in West Virginia,

00:05:32.780 but the bipartisan infrastructure bill

00:05:36.540 that passed last month

00:05:39.500 is extremely popular.

00:05:41.100 that in turn has 74% support.

00:05:45.240 In other words,

00:05:45.880 West Virginia is the same to Joe Manchin,

00:05:47.520 we don't like the president.

00:05:49.340 We like the bipartisan bill you did,

00:05:51.780 which the Republican senator

00:05:53.260 from West Virginia,

00:05:54.860 Shelley Moore Capito,

00:05:55.620 also voted for.

00:05:56.560 We don't like this monstrous

00:05:58.080 Build Back Better bill.

00:05:59.420 Well, that's actually where

00:06:00.540 Joe Manchin is politically.

00:06:02.740 So he doesn't have to do very much

00:06:04.860 to keep on the right side

00:06:07.180 of his voters.

00:06:09.480 Whether he will do it, though,

00:06:11.660 is hard to predict

00:06:13.540 because doing what West Virginians want

00:06:16.960 and what I think he thinks is right

00:06:18.280 would, it's undeniable,

00:06:20.140 exact a real cost

00:06:21.620 from his party

00:06:23.640 and the president of that party.

00:06:27.820 Meanwhile, you've got Bernie Sanders

00:06:29.600 doing what Bernie Sanders does.

00:06:31.780 I mean, we've talked about him before,

00:06:33.000 about how he thinks

00:06:33.780 there's some obligation

00:06:34.780 for Manchin and others

00:06:36.820 to vote the way

00:06:37.920 he wants them to vote.

00:06:39.780 And he sent out a tweet

00:06:43.300 that reads as follows.

00:06:45.480 While the majority

00:06:46.160 of the American people

00:06:47.300 have expressed overwhelming support

00:06:49.940 for the Build Back Better Act

00:06:52.080 and delivering for working Americans,

00:06:55.180 Republicans continue to oppose it.

00:06:57.420 Maybe, just maybe,

00:06:58.760 that's why they have to resort

00:07:00.460 to voter suppression.

00:07:03.520 What?

00:07:04.700 Wait, wait, what?

00:07:06.820 Look, so everything in there

00:07:08.780 is wrong.

00:07:10.980 This is of a piece with,

00:07:12.560 and you mentioned this,

00:07:13.800 Bernie's argument

00:07:14.920 that what really matters

00:07:17.120 is whether there is a majority

00:07:19.360 for this bill

00:07:20.600 within the Democrats' caucus,

00:07:22.500 not within the Senate.

00:07:25.400 Bernie keeps saying

00:07:26.460 that two senators

00:07:27.460 are holding up this bill.

00:07:29.480 He's referring to Joe Manchin

00:07:30.680 of West Virginia

00:07:31.340 and Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona.

00:07:33.080 But actually 52

00:07:34.440 out of 100 senators

00:07:36.420 are holding up this bill.

00:07:38.820 It is true

00:07:39.780 that Manchin and Sinema

00:07:41.140 are out of step

00:07:42.180 with their party,

00:07:42.920 but that's irrelevant.

00:07:44.320 I am strongly in favor

00:07:46.360 of the filibuster,

00:07:47.080 and I like the structure

00:07:47.860 of the Senate.

00:07:49.540 But irrespective of one's view

00:07:51.240 on that,

00:07:51.700 there is no theory

00:07:52.760 of the Senate

00:07:53.280 in which major bills

00:07:54.660 can be passed

00:07:55.260 by 48 out of 100 voters.

00:07:57.260 Bernie doesn't grasp that.

00:07:58.860 And then on the bill itself,

00:08:00.080 what he's doing here

00:08:02.240 is something you hear a lot

00:08:04.800 from progressives

00:08:05.900 and Democratic socialists,

00:08:07.340 and that's taking

00:08:07.980 one side of the ledger only.

00:08:10.340 If you remember back

00:08:11.160 with Obamacare,

00:08:13.220 Democrats would insist

00:08:14.280 during the Obamacare debates

00:08:15.740 that the individual

00:08:17.220 discrete provisions

00:08:18.120 within the bill

00:08:18.840 were popular,

00:08:19.720 but the bill itself wasn't.

00:08:21.000 And therefore,

00:08:21.780 there must be something

00:08:22.460 sinister going on.

00:08:23.800 The media must be running

00:08:24.940 interference for Republicans,

00:08:26.380 Republicans must be lying,

00:08:27.500 Americans must be ignorant,

00:08:28.800 and so forth.

00:08:29.260 But of course,

00:08:30.160 that's not what happens

00:08:31.260 when you get a bill.

00:08:32.800 When you get a bill,

00:08:34.260 people have to combine

00:08:36.280 what they think

00:08:37.360 of the proposal,

00:08:38.840 be that gun control

00:08:40.120 or spending

00:08:41.160 or reforms

00:08:42.100 to the healthcare system,

00:08:43.900 with the cost

00:08:44.980 which is put in the bill.

00:08:46.800 They also have to consider

00:08:47.940 the circumstances,

00:08:49.220 the context

00:08:49.900 within which the bill

00:08:50.860 is being proposed.

00:08:52.960 It's really quite silly

00:08:54.400 to do what Bernie is doing,

00:08:55.740 both implicitly

00:08:56.520 and explicitly,

00:08:57.720 to say,

00:08:58.040 well, if you ask people,

00:08:59.460 do you think

00:09:01.080 we should give seniors

00:09:02.320 prescription glasses

00:09:03.920 at no cost?

00:09:05.560 Do you want to do that?

00:09:06.840 They'll say yes.

00:09:08.340 Fine.

00:09:09.320 Until they're told

00:09:10.180 about the tax increases

00:09:11.400 and increases in debt

00:09:12.480 and inflationary

00:09:13.440 consequences

00:09:14.940 of doing so.

00:09:16.500 This bill exists

00:09:17.780 as it exists.

00:09:18.860 It has a set of provisions

00:09:20.180 in it

00:09:20.660 that if passed

00:09:21.520 would go into law.

00:09:22.660 And according to NPR,

00:09:23.940 that wild-eyed

00:09:24.780 right-wing outlet,

00:09:25.860 it has 41% support.

00:09:29.580 And, you know,

00:09:30.340 I think for Bernie Sanders

00:09:31.620 to keep saying

00:09:32.440 this has overwhelming support

00:09:33.680 or that it has

00:09:34.280 majority support

00:09:35.140 is flat-out dishonest.

00:09:37.220 And the theory

00:09:37.760 on which he's basing that

00:09:39.040 is silly.

00:09:40.760 It's one side

00:09:42.820 of the ledger accounting.

00:09:45.060 Meanwhile,

00:09:45.720 it has overwhelming

00:09:47.200 majority support

00:09:47.960 in his backyard,

00:09:49.100 maybe,

00:09:49.360 in his house,

00:09:50.040 but across the country

00:09:51.000 not so much

00:09:51.560 and less

00:09:52.420 as the economy

00:09:53.140 gets worse and worse.

00:09:54.620 The numbers

00:09:55.460 for Joe Biden

00:09:56.400 continue to go down.

00:09:57.960 When you look at it

00:09:58.840 state by state,

00:09:59.740 it's very bad.

00:10:02.000 In West Virginia,

00:10:03.220 Biden's approval rating

00:10:04.180 19%.

00:10:05.520 And you had a piece

00:10:07.380 recently talking about

00:10:08.120 how the Democrats

00:10:08.740 just keep saying

00:10:09.400 he's just got to do

00:10:10.500 more to lead.

00:10:11.880 That's what we need.

00:10:12.480 We just need Biden

00:10:13.580 to do more to lead.

00:10:14.820 And what we need

00:10:15.360 is to get together,

00:10:16.480 get this BBB

00:10:18.680 pushed through

00:10:19.700 so we can show everybody

00:10:20.580 how amazing our agenda is.

00:10:22.300 Meanwhile,

00:10:22.640 all the bad things

00:10:23.340 that are happening,

00:10:24.120 like with the economy,

00:10:25.360 they say isn't happening.

00:10:26.720 Same way they said

00:10:27.360 to us about CRT.

00:10:28.620 It's just not happening.

00:10:29.780 Don't believe your lying eyes.

00:10:31.820 Notwithstanding

00:10:32.220 all the testimonials,

00:10:33.160 notwithstanding

00:10:33.560 what people see

00:10:34.160 at the grocery store

00:10:34.860 and so on.

00:10:35.640 So he's got a 19%

00:10:36.800 approval rating

00:10:37.400 in West Virginia.

00:10:38.500 In Arizona,

00:10:39.640 35.

00:10:40.260 Montana,

00:10:40.780 31.

00:10:41.240 New Hampshire,

00:10:41.800 43.

00:10:42.340 Colorado,

00:10:42.880 40.

00:10:43.500 In Virginia,

00:10:44.260 38.

00:10:45.500 Kansas,

00:10:46.060 Michigan,

00:10:46.460 27 and 39.

00:10:48.400 I mean,

00:10:48.760 on and on it goes

00:10:49.860 down below 40%.

00:10:51.860 He has no mandate.

00:10:54.580 He does not have

00:10:55.260 a groundswell of support.

00:10:57.200 And you tell me

00:10:58.060 in what way

00:10:58.840 the Democrats expect him

00:11:00.060 to, quote,

00:11:00.740 lead at this point

00:11:02.200 to turn around

00:11:03.100 their electoral fortunes

00:11:04.620 as we have,

00:11:05.840 I don't know,

00:11:06.720 11 months now

00:11:07.980 until the midterm elections.

00:11:09.240 I don't think he can.

00:11:12.460 And the reason

00:11:13.260 I mentioned the states

00:11:14.340 that you just read off

00:11:15.980 was that those are states

00:11:17.100 whose U.S. senators

00:11:18.680 or Democratic governors

00:11:20.280 have started to

00:11:22.880 defy him.

00:11:25.160 The last week

00:11:26.780 was particularly bad

00:11:27.900 for Joe Biden,

00:11:29.640 Joe Manchin

00:11:30.560 and John Tester.

00:11:31.860 So that's West Virginia

00:11:32.680 and Montana

00:11:33.420 got together

00:11:34.300 to vote

00:11:35.060 with all Republicans

00:11:35.920 to reverse

00:11:36.860 the federal vaccine mandate.

00:11:38.820 That probably won't

00:11:39.580 become law

00:11:40.060 because Biden will veto it,

00:11:41.420 but the gesture

00:11:42.080 is interesting nevertheless.

00:11:43.740 Five Democrats

00:11:44.900 without Joe Manchin.

00:11:47.880 So you have

00:11:48.360 Virginia, Colorado,

00:11:49.400 two in Arizona,

00:11:51.060 one in Montana,

00:11:53.360 got together

00:11:54.140 to end

00:11:56.100 the nomination

00:11:57.260 of Saul Omorova,

00:11:59.200 who he wanted

00:11:59.560 as controller

00:12:00.240 of the currency.

00:12:01.240 and you have

00:12:03.580 Joe Manchin

00:12:04.720 continuing to oppose

00:12:06.760 key parts

00:12:07.440 of Biden's agenda

00:12:08.520 and trashing

00:12:09.740 parts of that agenda

00:12:11.060 in the press.

00:12:12.900 And I think

00:12:13.760 it's a little unfair

00:12:14.840 of people to say,

00:12:16.000 well,

00:12:16.180 Biden needs to lead.

00:12:18.540 Biden is the last thing

00:12:20.120 that is going

00:12:22.420 to change this equation

00:12:23.600 because,

00:12:24.160 as you said,

00:12:24.660 he's unpopular.

00:12:25.720 He can't go into

00:12:26.460 those states

00:12:27.320 over the heads

00:12:28.200 of the representatives

00:12:29.420 who are more popular.

00:12:30.460 and say,

00:12:32.380 these guys

00:12:33.020 are doing the wrong thing.

00:12:34.400 First,

00:12:34.700 it would be counterproductive.

00:12:36.200 But secondly,

00:12:36.920 that's actually

00:12:37.380 what they must want.

00:12:38.660 And if you're Joe Manchin,

00:12:39.680 what you want right now

00:12:40.680 is for Joe Biden

00:12:42.020 or Kamala Harris

00:12:42.760 or anyone else,

00:12:43.440 frankly,

00:12:43.680 to come into your state

00:12:44.740 and say,

00:12:45.240 you're the problem.

00:12:46.660 It makes you look

00:12:47.220 independent,

00:12:48.000 makes you look

00:12:48.540 probably stronger

00:12:50.180 than you are.

00:12:51.340 So there's really

00:12:52.240 no chance

00:12:53.140 for Joe Biden

00:12:54.400 to turn this around.

00:12:56.840 What he needs

00:12:58.020 is a lot of good news.

00:13:00.860 But I will say,

00:13:01.760 I think he's making

00:13:02.500 a big strategic mistake

00:13:03.720 and this is perhaps

00:13:04.520 a mistake

00:13:05.360 that Democrats

00:13:05.880 and progressives

00:13:06.720 make inevitably

00:13:08.280 because of their worldview.

00:13:10.480 You may remember this.

00:13:11.520 Two weeks ago,

00:13:12.380 the DCCC

00:13:13.380 put out one

00:13:14.360 of the silliest tweets

00:13:15.300 I think any of us

00:13:16.080 had ever seen

00:13:16.900 and it showed

00:13:17.960 gas prices

00:13:18.760 going down

00:13:19.440 about one and a half cents

00:13:20.820 over two weeks.

00:13:22.400 And the caption said,

00:13:24.160 thank you,

00:13:25.100 Joe Biden.

00:13:26.660 And I wrote at the time,

00:13:27.780 that was a huge mistake

00:13:28.760 because the correct argument

00:13:30.720 that Biden should be making,

00:13:33.060 and when I say correct,

00:13:33.800 I mean true,

00:13:34.560 not just politically efficacious,

00:13:36.540 is that he's not

00:13:37.280 in control of gas prices.

00:13:38.520 Yeah, that's right.

00:13:39.020 The high gas prices

00:13:39.780 are by and large

00:13:40.640 not Biden's fault.

00:13:41.760 Now, he is in some ways

00:13:43.060 making them worse

00:13:43.820 and he's doing

00:13:44.480 not that much

00:13:46.140 to make them better,

00:13:47.160 but they're not his fault.

00:13:48.740 But if you go on Twitter

00:13:49.900 and your party

00:13:50.680 starts taking ownership

00:13:51.900 of negligible marginal drops

00:13:54.500 in prices,

00:13:56.880 what do you think

00:13:57.480 people are going to conclude

00:13:58.680 when they go up?

00:13:59.740 As of course

00:14:00.240 they did immediately.

00:14:01.760 They're going to think,

00:14:02.540 well, if the tiny decrease

00:14:04.220 was Joe Biden's doing,

00:14:05.540 then this 10 cent increase

00:14:06.980 must be Joe Biden's doing as well.

00:14:08.540 It was really silly

00:14:09.340 and it did the president

00:14:10.240 no favors whatsoever.

00:14:12.400 And now the White House

00:14:13.180 watching the press coverage,

00:14:14.600 even the left wing press,

00:14:15.700 has to be somewhat honest

00:14:17.960 about these inflationary numbers.

00:14:19.520 I mean, the latest is

00:14:20.340 highest levels,

00:14:22.060 highest levels

00:14:22.860 in nearly 40 years.

00:14:25.440 The strongest inflationary

00:14:26.720 burst in a generation.

00:14:29.420 And they say,

00:14:30.860 OK, so it's basically

00:14:31.620 a 6.8 percent pace

00:14:33.020 on a year over year basis.

00:14:34.520 That's the fastest rate

00:14:35.600 of growth in inflation

00:14:36.460 since June 1982.

00:14:38.840 Energy prices up 33.3 percent

00:14:41.360 since November of 2020.

00:14:43.800 Gasoline up 58.1 percent.

00:14:46.680 Food prices jumped 6.1 percent.

00:14:49.200 And up and up they go.

00:14:50.780 And so what does

00:14:51.200 the White House do?

00:14:52.100 They gather the reporters,

00:14:53.840 their favorite reporters together

00:14:55.260 to say what we really need

00:14:56.980 is better coverage

00:14:57.920 because we swear the story

00:14:59.600 is better than it looks

00:15:01.080 right there.

00:15:01.860 And that's what leads us

00:15:03.640 to people like Don Lemon,

00:15:05.980 who in seeing gas prices

00:15:07.740 go down a few cents,

00:15:09.640 did the following on CNN.

00:15:11.560 Listen to this.

00:15:13.420 Big economic relief

00:15:14.440 for millions of Americans

00:15:15.420 who have been dealing

00:15:16.500 with soaring energy prices.

00:15:19.120 Cost of the pump

00:15:19.780 finally easing up

00:15:21.380 with the national average

00:15:22.720 for a gallon of regular

00:15:23.720 falling to $3.35,

00:15:26.220 the lowest since October.

00:15:28.960 Just look at that.

00:15:33.500 OMG, Charlie.

00:15:37.260 Yeah, the Biden's response,

00:15:40.100 Biden team's response to this

00:15:41.700 has just baffled me.

00:15:43.240 I mean, the first thing

00:15:44.940 they should be doing

00:15:45.640 is completely reorienting

00:15:47.540 his presidency

00:15:48.320 to meet this challenge.

00:15:50.900 It is not largely his fault

00:15:53.340 that we are seeing

00:15:54.380 these inflationary pressures.

00:15:55.700 Although I will say

00:15:56.500 spending trillions of dollars,

00:15:57.980 as the party did again

00:15:58.860 in March,

00:16:01.360 $2 trillion of unnecessary spending,

00:16:03.440 has not improved things.

00:16:05.220 But it's not mostly his fault.

00:16:07.460 And yet he's not

00:16:09.140 reoriented himself

00:16:11.060 to fighting it.

00:16:12.460 And I think that's

00:16:13.460 what people want.

00:16:15.340 What they don't want

00:16:16.260 is for him to carry on

00:16:17.660 pursuing a bill

00:16:19.440 that the party

00:16:20.540 would have tried

00:16:21.580 to pass

00:16:22.620 in 2018

00:16:23.440 or 2016

00:16:24.300 or 2014

00:16:25.860 as if nothing

00:16:27.100 is happening.

00:16:28.860 And so there is

00:16:29.620 a real disconnect here

00:16:31.640 between what we're seeing

00:16:32.980 on the ground,

00:16:33.740 which again,

00:16:34.260 it's not really Biden's fault,

00:16:36.020 and what he's talking about.

00:16:37.460 To the point at which

00:16:38.780 he and his party

00:16:40.680 are saying some incredibly

00:16:41.960 silly things.

00:16:43.360 Like, well,

00:16:44.180 if you're worried

00:16:44.860 about inflation,

00:16:45.720 then you really should

00:16:47.160 get behind the

00:16:47.800 Build Back Better bill.

00:16:48.960 That's what will

00:16:49.700 nix inflation.

00:16:51.160 No, it won't.

00:16:52.340 It won't.

00:16:53.180 And it will probably

00:16:54.040 make it worse

00:16:54.900 because flooding the economy

00:16:56.420 with trillions more dollars,

00:16:58.460 printing more money,

00:16:59.680 is not how you

00:17:01.020 get rid of inflation.

00:17:02.760 In terms of the media,

00:17:03.720 I think this is where

00:17:05.600 Democrats suffer

00:17:06.540 from their domination

00:17:07.800 of the media,

00:17:09.400 the academy,

00:17:10.260 the entertainment industry,

00:17:11.560 and so on.

00:17:12.380 Most of the time,

00:17:13.820 they benefit.

00:17:14.660 They can run interference

00:17:16.020 for the party

00:17:17.840 through the press.

00:17:19.920 They can use push polls.

00:17:22.180 They can change perceptions.

00:17:25.700 What they can't do here

00:17:27.720 is convince people

00:17:29.280 that what they're seeing

00:17:30.200 with their own eyes

00:17:31.540 isn't real.

00:17:32.440 You might be able

00:17:34.100 to alter

00:17:35.460 the perception

00:17:36.960 of a candidate

00:17:37.720 using the newspapers.

00:17:39.920 You might be able

00:17:40.760 to bury

00:17:41.400 inconvenient stories

00:17:42.720 just by

00:17:43.720 the process

00:17:45.080 of picking

00:17:45.720 and choosing

00:17:46.180 what you print

00:17:46.960 and what you air.

00:17:48.420 But telling people

00:17:49.600 that inflation

00:17:50.300 is actually not bad,

00:17:52.320 telling people

00:17:52.980 that the economy

00:17:54.000 is healthier

00:17:54.600 than it's ever been,

00:17:56.420 telling people

00:17:57.060 that the labor market

00:17:58.620 is fine,

00:18:00.020 and as David Leonhardt

00:18:01.740 pointed out

00:18:02.180 in the New York Times,

00:18:03.220 telling people

00:18:03.920 that this is normal America,

00:18:05.980 an America

00:18:07.000 with messed up schools

00:18:09.080 and empty airports

00:18:10.640 and supply chain problems.

00:18:13.600 It's just bizarre

00:18:15.560 because people can see it.

00:18:17.780 People know

00:18:18.420 whether their wages

00:18:19.700 are in line

00:18:22.200 with their outgoings,

00:18:23.160 and they know

00:18:24.240 whether it's easy

00:18:25.080 to find a job,

00:18:25.980 and they know

00:18:27.020 whether they can

00:18:27.880 travel in the way

00:18:29.600 that they used to,

00:18:30.440 and they know

00:18:30.960 how their children's

00:18:31.800 schools are operating.

00:18:33.120 And, you know,

00:18:33.640 you can make as many calls

00:18:35.080 to Don Lemon

00:18:35.800 or Dana Milbank

00:18:37.980 or Jennifer Rubin

00:18:38.900 as you like

00:18:39.520 and implore them

00:18:40.700 to tell people

00:18:41.780 that actually

00:18:42.300 on paper

00:18:42.820 it's fine,

00:18:44.040 but come on.

00:18:44.700 Yeah, that doesn't work,

00:18:46.680 and they might have

00:18:47.380 benefited from somebody

00:18:48.480 who could push back

00:18:49.760 on them

00:18:50.180 and say

00:18:50.720 that's a bad strategy.

00:18:52.960 The people know

00:18:54.620 they have wallets,

00:18:55.960 they have bills to pay,

00:18:57.240 it's Christmas season,

00:18:58.420 they feel all of it

00:18:59.720 on an intimate level,

00:19:01.020 but instead

00:19:01.560 he's got sycophants,

00:19:03.220 and I refer to the press

00:19:04.480 here around him,

00:19:05.800 who are as desperate

00:19:06.600 as he is

00:19:07.640 to make the narrative

00:19:08.960 about Biden

00:19:09.740 be better.

00:19:10.800 I mean,

00:19:11.120 you have reporters

00:19:12.180 like Milbank

00:19:13.040 openly suggesting,

00:19:14.500 you know,

00:19:14.660 this is a battle

00:19:15.360 of good versus evil,

00:19:17.780 and so

00:19:18.480 we need to be

00:19:19.640 on the side of good,

00:19:20.460 that would be Joe Biden

00:19:21.320 to defeat the Republicans

00:19:22.720 or Trump,

00:19:23.920 who embodies evil,

00:19:25.840 and therefore

00:19:26.300 you better shape up

00:19:27.200 that coverage

00:19:27.860 and get on board

00:19:29.020 in trying to

00:19:29.940 shove down the throats

00:19:31.360 of the American people

00:19:32.060 this lie

00:19:32.680 because, you know,

00:19:34.220 it's an existential crisis

00:19:35.660 for the United States.

00:19:36.540 It's crazy to hear

00:19:37.300 reporters

00:19:37.820 openly talking like this

00:19:40.420 and taking the marching

00:19:41.360 orders in this way,

00:19:43.280 and then, of course,

00:19:44.680 Charlie,

00:19:45.040 they turn around

00:19:45.740 when you see an event

00:19:46.560 like January 6th,

00:19:48.080 right,

00:19:48.300 or like COVID,

00:19:49.580 where they'd really like

00:19:51.720 to have the attention

00:19:52.600 and trust

00:19:53.120 of the American people,

00:19:54.380 and they're baffled

00:19:55.820 as to why they don't have it.

00:19:58.060 Why are people

00:19:58.760 down the internet

00:19:59.320 rabbit holes?

00:20:00.280 Why won't they believe

00:20:01.160 Dr. Fauci and us

00:20:02.340 when we tell them

00:20:03.040 the, quote,

00:20:03.820 truth, capital T,

00:20:04.940 about COVID, right?

00:20:07.080 These little death

00:20:08.460 by a thousand cuts

00:20:09.560 moments

00:20:10.280 are why.

00:20:13.320 Yeah,

00:20:14.020 I've written about this

00:20:15.020 recently in two contexts.

00:20:16.300 One was the Dana Milbank

00:20:17.600 column in the Washington Post

00:20:19.160 in which he said

00:20:19.960 that some artificial

00:20:21.240 intelligence algorithm

00:20:22.620 had determined

00:20:23.440 that the press

00:20:24.120 is as mean

00:20:24.940 to Biden

00:20:25.640 as it was to Trump.

00:20:27.320 I mean,

00:20:27.580 this is silly.

00:20:28.540 It's not just silly

00:20:29.400 on its face,

00:20:30.600 but it's silly

00:20:31.120 because that AI technology

00:20:32.940 isn't particularly good.

00:20:34.920 It's quite difficult

00:20:35.900 to judge sentiment

00:20:37.000 and tone

00:20:37.540 and scope,

00:20:38.360 sarcasm,

00:20:38.860 irony,

00:20:39.720 and so forth.

00:20:41.720 And the other was

00:20:42.420 in response to David Frum

00:20:43.640 who essentially said

00:20:44.600 that if you are critical

00:20:45.620 of President Trump,

00:20:46.580 then you have to

00:20:47.360 remain on board

00:20:48.460 with all of the

00:20:50.320 Russiagate conspiracy theories

00:20:51.920 that we spent

00:20:53.020 two years

00:20:53.880 obsessing over.

00:20:55.800 And in both cases,

00:20:57.380 I made the same point

00:20:58.640 and that is that

00:20:59.220 if you want to

00:21:00.320 limit the number

00:21:01.740 of lies in our politics,

00:21:03.120 then you just need

00:21:03.800 to tell the truth more.

00:21:05.560 And it is entirely possible

00:21:07.160 both to think

00:21:08.640 that President Trump

00:21:10.440 lied relentlessly

00:21:12.840 about the 2020 election

00:21:15.100 and that Joe Biden's economy,

00:21:17.980 or at least the economy

00:21:19.140 that Joe Biden

00:21:21.200 is president for,

00:21:24.080 is bad.

00:21:25.000 And the idea

00:21:26.320 that you're beginning

00:21:26.900 to see in certain quarters,

00:21:28.240 sometimes explicitly,

00:21:29.840 there was a piece yesterday

00:21:30.640 making this case

00:21:31.460 explicitly

00:21:32.700 in the New Republic,

00:21:34.500 that the press

00:21:35.620 should be bolstering Biden

00:21:37.220 even when it knows

00:21:38.740 either that he's lying

00:21:40.240 or that his policies

00:21:42.200 are harmful,

00:21:43.740 is counter to everything

00:21:47.200 that we should expect

00:21:48.360 from journalism,

00:21:49.660 but also from each other

00:21:50.880 as citizens.

00:21:52.060 That's not how

00:21:53.520 you vanquish

00:21:55.480 people who cheat

00:21:57.300 or tell falsehoods.

00:22:00.140 That's how you get

00:22:00.880 more of them,

00:22:01.460 as you say.

00:22:02.080 That's how you prompt

00:22:03.240 people to conclude

00:22:04.160 that no one is trustworthy,

00:22:06.160 that all of politics

00:22:07.120 is one great staged battle

00:22:09.420 between partisan interests

00:22:11.460 and that the truth

00:22:12.920 doesn't factor in,

00:22:14.100 and eventually

00:22:14.900 to go down

00:22:15.800 those rabbit holes

00:22:16.720 and find themselves

00:22:19.560 under the sway

00:22:21.000 of people

00:22:21.400 who are far,

00:22:22.220 far less responsible

00:22:23.640 than, you know,

00:22:25.380 Kevin McCarthy

00:22:26.240 or your media

00:22:27.540 and right-of-center

00:22:28.500 journalists.

00:22:29.820 I think this is

00:22:30.400 a terrible idea

00:22:31.480 that in some ways

00:22:33.580 indicates just how

00:22:35.080 out of touch

00:22:35.740 many people in the press

00:22:36.780 are with those

00:22:37.380 they ostensibly serve.

00:22:39.720 Well, and you know

00:22:40.480 what else?

00:22:40.980 It's indicative

00:22:43.320 of why

00:22:44.360 so many Republicans

00:22:45.940 in particular

00:22:46.560 believe that the election

00:22:48.400 was stolen.

00:22:49.560 It's not that they believe

00:22:50.680 in the Kraken

00:22:51.420 or the Sidney Powell thing.

00:22:52.880 It's that they think

00:22:53.620 the system is rigged

00:22:54.820 against the Republican.

00:22:56.620 And now you have

00:22:57.560 the press openly

00:22:59.080 acknowledging that,

00:23:00.560 though that's not

00:23:01.160 their goal.

00:23:01.680 But that's why

00:23:02.460 I think Republicans

00:23:03.240 look at it and they say

00:23:04.020 big tech is 100%

00:23:05.580 against Republicans.

00:23:06.940 So are the media.

00:23:08.160 These are two

00:23:08.760 really important organizations.

00:23:10.140 And when you have people

00:23:11.360 like you point out

00:23:12.320 from talking about

00:23:13.140 how you have to,

00:23:14.760 like this is,

00:23:15.140 again,

00:23:16.240 it's an existential thing.

00:23:17.940 They don't find it

00:23:18.960 all that hard to believe

00:23:19.960 that Democratic poll workers

00:23:21.760 were up to some funny business

00:23:24.060 on the night of the election,

00:23:25.140 right?

00:23:25.280 Because the ends

00:23:25.940 would justify the means

00:23:26.980 Trump had to be disposed of.

00:23:29.580 They had to do

00:23:30.240 what they had to do.

00:23:31.080 You know,

00:23:31.220 this is sort of

00:23:31.860 because the press

00:23:32.780 paints the Republicans

00:23:33.600 as a bunch of lunatics

00:23:34.860 for holding on to

00:23:36.060 their doubts

00:23:36.620 about the election.

00:23:37.760 That's my own take on it.

00:23:38.920 It's not about Kraken.

00:23:40.160 It's about stuff like this.

00:23:41.520 I think one of the

00:23:43.420 difficult things

00:23:44.300 in recent years

00:23:45.820 has been that

00:23:46.800 many of the criticisms

00:23:49.020 that the press

00:23:50.040 leveled

00:23:50.980 at President Trump

00:23:52.340 were true.

00:23:54.700 They were also

00:23:55.640 the same things

00:23:56.380 that they'd said

00:23:56.860 about every Republican president.

00:23:58.720 And as a result,

00:24:00.000 it was quite hard

00:24:00.960 to convince people

00:24:02.160 that, no,

00:24:03.000 this time

00:24:03.560 it's true

00:24:04.540 because people

00:24:06.220 would say,

00:24:06.780 well,

00:24:07.440 yeah,

00:24:07.840 but they said that

00:24:08.360 about Reagan

00:24:08.940 or they said that

00:24:09.660 about George W. Bush

00:24:11.480 and they said that

00:24:12.300 about Mitt Romney.

00:24:13.820 And you would have to say,

00:24:14.540 yes, I know,

00:24:15.120 but in this case,

00:24:15.920 Trump actually did do it.

00:24:17.600 He actually is lying

00:24:18.940 and he,

00:24:20.040 you know,

00:24:20.760 and I think

00:24:23.480 that there's obviously

00:24:24.440 a lesson in there

00:24:25.440 for anyone

00:24:26.040 who defends Trump

00:24:27.760 to the hilt.

00:24:28.480 This is not a guy

00:24:29.460 who is trustworthy.

00:24:30.820 There's also a lesson

00:24:31.780 in there about

00:24:32.520 crying wolf.

00:24:33.760 It's an old fable

00:24:34.860 for a reason.

00:24:36.060 You do not want

00:24:37.020 to create

00:24:37.760 reflexive distrust

00:24:39.140 in people

00:24:39.620 such that

00:24:40.180 if there is

00:24:41.040 the very threat

00:24:42.500 that they've been

00:24:43.240 warned about,

00:24:44.060 they dismiss it.

00:24:45.420 And we're already

00:24:46.480 beginning to see

00:24:47.600 the same people

00:24:49.720 get up

00:24:52.100 on the top

00:24:52.800 of the mountain

00:24:53.600 and shout

00:24:54.580 about Ron DeSantis.

00:24:55.960 We're already

00:24:56.520 seeing pieces

00:24:57.380 saying,

00:24:58.320 well,

00:24:58.540 Trump was one thing

00:24:59.340 but that Ron DeSantis

00:25:00.380 is another.

00:25:01.500 No,

00:25:01.920 he's not.

00:25:02.760 And if you do that,

00:25:03.900 you will drive people

00:25:04.820 into the hands

00:25:05.460 of irresponsible politicians.

00:25:07.060 and make it

00:25:08.240 much harder

00:25:08.920 for them

00:25:09.320 to police

00:25:10.140 their own side.

00:25:12.220 Okay,

00:25:12.820 up next,

00:25:13.440 we're going

00:25:13.700 to get into

00:25:14.480 time,

00:25:15.520 picking its

00:25:15.940 person of the year,

00:25:17.200 transgender swimmer

00:25:18.480 crushing all

00:25:19.400 the women's records

00:25:20.340 at the University

00:25:21.600 of Pennsylvania

00:25:22.240 and the latest

00:25:22.880 on COVID vaccine

00:25:24.120 mandates

00:25:24.540 at the U.S.

00:25:25.220 Supreme Court

00:25:25.860 right after this.

00:25:27.600 More with Charles

00:25:28.200 C.W. Cook

00:25:29.100 in two minutes.

00:25:30.040 Don't go away.

00:25:30.500 Don't go away.

00:25:37.740 So Charles,

00:25:39.100 speaking of

00:25:40.000 the lamentations

00:25:41.680 about 2016

00:25:42.920 on the right

00:25:44.060 and the left,

00:25:45.240 Hillary Clinton

00:25:46.280 weighed in recently.

00:25:47.340 I've been dying

00:25:48.060 to ask you about this

00:25:49.440 and decided

00:25:50.920 for some reason

00:25:51.640 it might be a good idea

00:25:52.640 for her to read

00:25:53.500 what would have been

00:25:54.640 her victory speech

00:25:56.200 on camera.

00:25:58.400 I actually hadn't

00:25:59.520 even seen it

00:26:00.100 until my team

00:26:00.620 played it for me

00:26:01.240 last week

00:26:02.300 and I was stunned

00:26:03.960 at like the shaking,

00:26:05.400 crying version

00:26:06.320 of Hillary.

00:26:07.340 I'm not sure

00:26:08.180 what was going on here

00:26:09.160 but I'm more interested

00:26:10.300 in your take.

00:26:10.940 Here's a clip.

00:26:11.620 I dream of going up

00:26:12.700 to her

00:26:13.140 and sitting down

00:26:15.040 next to her

00:26:15.800 taking her

00:26:17.940 in my arms

00:26:18.820 and saying

00:26:20.320 look at me

00:26:21.060 listen to me

00:26:22.740 you will survive

00:26:25.200 you will have

00:26:27.020 a good family

00:26:27.880 of your own

00:26:28.700 and three children

00:26:30.500 and as hard

00:26:32.280 as it might be

00:26:33.320 to imagine

00:26:34.000 your daughter

00:26:35.620 will grow up

00:26:36.440 and become

00:26:37.200 the President

00:26:38.520 of the United States.

00:26:41.580 I am as sure

00:26:43.100 of this

00:26:43.580 as anything

00:26:44.400 I have ever known.

00:26:46.820 America

00:26:47.500 is the greatest

00:26:48.500 country

00:26:49.200 in the world

00:26:50.080 and from tonight

00:26:52.400 going forward

00:26:53.400 together

00:26:54.480 we will make

00:26:56.160 America

00:26:56.740 even greater

00:26:58.040 than it has

00:26:58.960 ever been

00:26:59.740 for each

00:27:00.980 and every

00:27:01.980 one

00:27:02.660 of us.

00:27:04.100 Thank you.

00:27:05.440 God bless you

00:27:06.500 and may God bless

00:27:08.080 America.

00:27:11.960 Your thoughts?

00:27:14.500 Well,

00:27:15.400 I think that it

00:27:16.660 demonstrates

00:27:17.820 a lack of judgment

00:27:18.940 and self-control.

00:27:20.520 I understand

00:27:21.480 how difficult

00:27:22.220 it must be

00:27:22.800 to lose

00:27:23.400 a presidential race

00:27:25.600 and if you

00:27:26.580 had wanted

00:27:27.040 to be president

00:27:27.740 for your entire

00:27:28.400 life

00:27:28.900 it must be

00:27:30.380 crushing

00:27:30.840 to lose

00:27:31.600 a race

00:27:32.040 that you

00:27:32.440 believed

00:27:33.040 throughout

00:27:33.840 you were

00:27:34.480 destined to win

00:27:35.360 as Hillary

00:27:36.140 did in 2016.

00:27:38.140 So on a human

00:27:38.740 level

00:27:39.100 I comprehend

00:27:40.880 her

00:27:42.060 grief

00:27:43.380 but there are

00:27:44.880 a lot of people

00:27:45.540 in American history

00:27:46.460 who have been

00:27:47.200 in her position

00:27:48.580 and who

00:27:50.140 have borne

00:27:51.500 their

00:27:52.100 failure

00:27:53.520 with

00:27:54.680 distinction

00:27:56.760 who have

00:27:58.500 declined

00:27:58.920 to do

00:27:59.440 what we

00:28:00.400 just saw.

00:28:02.180 One of them

00:28:03.040 just died

00:28:03.680 Bob Dole

00:28:04.720 who lost

00:28:05.440 badly

00:28:05.860 to Hillary

00:28:06.580 Clinton's

00:28:07.040 husband

00:28:07.320 in 1996

00:28:08.860 who I think

00:28:10.800 coped with

00:28:11.280 his own loss

00:28:12.160 by joking

00:28:12.900 about it.

00:28:13.700 He was a

00:28:14.480 funny man.

00:28:15.740 Others

00:28:16.100 are of the

00:28:17.440 stalwart

00:28:18.060 type

00:28:19.220 I find

00:28:21.020 that embarrassing

00:28:21.680 I think

00:28:22.140 perhaps

00:28:22.580 I find

00:28:23.160 that

00:28:23.420 slightly

00:28:24.160 more

00:28:24.440 embarrassing

00:28:24.800 than even

00:28:25.220 you do

00:28:25.600 because

00:28:25.980 I'm

00:28:26.700 originally

00:28:27.060 English

00:28:27.560 that's

00:28:28.860 number

00:28:29.240 one

00:28:29.700 on the

00:28:30.020 list

00:28:30.240 of

00:28:30.380 things

00:28:30.660 you

00:28:30.840 don't

00:28:31.120 do

00:28:31.320 as

00:28:31.500 an adult

00:28:31.920 stiff

00:28:32.120 upper

00:28:32.560 lip

00:28:33.000 right

00:28:34.640 well you

00:28:35.600 know

00:28:35.720 can I

00:28:35.920 tell you

00:28:36.180 watching it

00:28:37.180 again

00:28:37.500 I don't

00:28:38.200 I

00:28:38.480 actually

00:28:38.980 question

00:28:39.700 the

00:28:40.600 emotion

00:28:41.140 in

00:28:41.660 I

00:28:42.000 don't

00:28:42.320 question

00:28:42.640 that it

00:28:42.860 was

00:28:42.980 difficult

00:28:43.240 for her

00:28:43.580 to

00:28:43.740 lose

00:28:44.040 and

00:28:44.220 that

00:28:44.340 she

00:28:44.460 felt

00:28:44.740 all

00:28:45.020 of

00:28:45.140 that

00:28:45.300 acutely

00:28:45.700 in

00:28:45.940 16

00:28:46.360 but

00:28:47.300 in

00:28:47.960 my

00:28:48.180 experience

00:28:48.520 when

00:28:48.680 somebody

00:28:48.960 is

00:28:49.120 crying

00:28:49.500 or

00:28:49.720 holding

00:28:50.040 back

00:28:50.320 tears

00:28:50.660 because

00:28:50.980 they're

00:28:51.220 reading

00:28:51.400 something

00:28:51.680 difficult

00:28:52.100 or going

00:28:52.440 through

00:28:52.580 a

00:28:52.680 difficult

00:28:52.920 memory

00:28:53.320 that's

00:28:54.160 not

00:28:54.320 how

00:28:54.480 it

00:28:54.620 looks

00:28:54.800 and

00:28:54.980 sounds

00:28:55.300 you

00:28:55.440 don't

00:28:55.720 constantly

00:28:56.500 have

00:28:56.900 the

00:28:57.080 voice

00:28:57.380 like

00:28:57.660 that

00:28:57.900 you

00:28:58.040 have

00:28:58.240 bouts

00:28:58.580 of

00:28:58.760 it

00:28:59.240 breaks

00:28:59.680 you

00:28:59.940 try

00:29:00.160 to

00:29:00.380 recover

00:29:01.040 it

00:29:01.360 breaks

00:29:01.640 again

00:29:01.880 you

00:29:02.000 try

00:29:02.160 to

00:29:02.260 recover

00:29:02.580 to

00:29:03.180 me

00:29:03.360 it

00:29:03.560 seemed

00:29:03.940 affected

00:29:04.780 and

00:29:05.940 it

00:29:06.200 also

00:29:06.540 seemed

00:29:06.880 affected

00:29:07.320 to

00:29:07.560 me

00:29:07.700 because

00:29:08.000 Hillary

00:29:08.340 Clinton

00:29:08.700 is

00:29:09.240 whatever

00:29:09.960 your

00:29:10.200 criticisms

00:29:10.600 of

00:29:10.880 her

00:29:11.000 a

00:29:11.200 very

00:29:11.500 tough

00:29:11.840 woman

00:29:12.180 and

00:29:13.200 I

00:29:13.860 feel

00:29:14.200 like

00:29:14.400 this

00:29:14.620 was

00:29:14.940 intentional

00:29:15.700 she

00:29:16.100 was

00:29:16.340 trying

00:29:16.780 to

00:29:17.020 show

00:29:17.420 a

00:29:18.160 softer

00:29:18.620 side

00:29:19.140 of

00:29:19.300 herself

00:29:19.620 she

00:29:19.920 thought

00:29:20.180 that

00:29:20.340 that

00:29:20.520 would

00:29:20.740 somehow

00:29:21.340 connect

00:29:21.840 with

00:29:22.020 people

00:29:22.380 just

00:29:22.680 proving

00:29:23.240 once

00:29:23.480 again

00:29:23.680 that

00:29:23.820 she

00:29:23.900 just

00:29:24.080 doesn't

00:29:24.320 get

00:29:24.560 it

00:29:24.760 authenticity

00:29:25.520 is

00:29:25.960 what

00:29:26.180 connects

00:29:26.740 you

00:29:26.980 with

00:29:27.220 other

00:29:27.540 people

00:29:27.820 not

00:29:28.100 fake

00:29:28.500 tears

00:29:28.960 if

00:29:29.640 you're

00:29:29.860 not

00:29:30.080 that

00:29:30.300 person

00:29:30.720 and

00:29:31.580 it

00:29:32.020 did

00:29:32.220 lead

00:29:32.440 me

00:29:32.540 to

00:29:32.660 wonder

00:29:32.880 is

00:29:33.120 she

00:29:33.340 getting

00:29:33.760 ready

00:29:34.120 to

00:29:34.380 you

00:29:35.620 know

00:29:35.740 with

00:29:35.920 Joe

00:29:36.160 Biden

00:29:36.420 so

00:29:36.640 weak

00:29:36.960 and

00:29:37.140 Kamala

00:29:37.460 Harris

00:29:37.740 so

00:29:38.000 unpopular

00:29:38.560 and

00:29:38.760 Pete

00:29:38.960 Buttigieg

00:29:39.460 just

00:29:39.780 a

00:29:40.020 far

00:29:40.740 left

00:29:41.100 dream

00:29:41.720 that's

00:29:42.360 never

00:29:42.560 going

00:29:42.820 to

00:29:42.940 materialize

00:29:43.680 is

00:29:44.020 she

00:29:44.260 getting

00:29:44.540 ready

00:29:44.840 to

00:29:45.100 throw

00:29:45.280 her

00:29:45.440 hat

00:29:45.620 back

00:29:45.820 in

00:29:45.940 this

00:29:46.080 ring

00:29:46.300 I

00:29:48.660 think

00:29:48.960 about

00:29:49.240 it

00:29:49.520 I

00:29:50.300 think

00:29:50.780 it

00:29:50.900 would

00:29:51.020 be

00:29:51.380 insane

00:29:52.280 for

00:29:53.140 her

00:29:53.360 to

00:29:53.600 do

00:29:53.800 so

00:29:54.120 the

00:29:55.240 story

00:29:56.840 of

00:29:57.020 Hillary

00:29:57.240 Clinton

00:29:57.640 I'm

00:29:58.000 afraid

00:29:58.360 is

00:29:59.480 the

00:29:59.660 story

00:30:00.120 of

00:30:00.540 a

00:30:00.700 politician

00:30:01.220 that

00:30:02.180 the

00:30:02.400 public

00:30:02.780 doesn't

00:30:03.220 like

00:30:03.600 and

00:30:04.500 who

00:30:05.060 in

00:30:05.920 her

00:30:06.140 various

00:30:06.760 incarnations

00:30:07.620 has

00:30:08.360 had

00:30:08.560 to

00:30:08.700 be

00:30:08.860 pushed

00:30:09.180 over

00:30:09.680 any

00:30:10.780 finish

00:30:11.180 line

00:30:11.560 she

00:30:12.000 managed

00:30:12.420 to

00:30:12.700 traverse

00:30:13.160 she

00:30:14.660 should

00:30:16.320 have

00:30:16.680 blown

00:30:17.040 out

00:30:17.420 the

00:30:17.760 senate

00:30:18.120 race

00:30:18.460 she

00:30:18.640 ran

00:30:18.880 in

00:30:19.060 2000

00:30:19.600 she

00:30:20.740 did

00:30:20.940 she

00:30:21.640 won

00:30:21.960 but

00:30:23.240 she

00:30:23.480 didn't

00:30:23.760 do

00:30:23.920 as

00:30:24.100 well

00:30:24.280 as

00:30:24.440 you

00:30:24.600 would

00:30:24.780 have

00:30:24.980 expected

00:30:25.500 in

00:30:25.840 New

00:30:26.140 York

00:30:26.460 which

00:30:26.700 was

00:30:26.800 a

00:30:26.940 reliably

00:30:27.260 democratic

00:30:27.760 state

00:30:28.220 with

00:30:28.620 her

00:30:28.760 husband

00:30:29.120 as

00:30:29.380 president

00:30:29.920 for

00:30:30.320 the

00:30:30.500 race

00:30:30.920 she

00:30:31.940 lost

00:30:32.280 to

00:30:32.540 Barack

00:30:32.900 Obama

00:30:33.300 in

00:30:33.520 2008

00:30:34.040 which

00:30:34.280 shocked

00:30:34.620 everyone

00:30:35.140 Barack

00:30:36.120 Obama

00:30:36.380 obviously

00:30:36.760 very

00:30:37.180 talented

00:30:37.760 politician

00:30:38.460 but he

00:30:38.740 came from

00:30:39.140 nowhere

00:30:39.460 and managed

00:30:40.180 to beat

00:30:40.560 her

00:30:40.780 and then

00:30:41.500 she lost

00:30:41.920 in 2016

00:30:42.780 to Donald

00:30:44.060 Trump

00:30:44.420 which was

00:30:45.580 also

00:30:45.960 unexpected

00:30:46.740 the idea

00:30:47.720 that the

00:30:48.820 democratic

00:30:49.300 party

00:30:49.820 would look

00:30:51.160 to Hillary

00:30:51.560 Clinton

00:30:52.000 as its

00:30:53.000 salvation

00:30:54.040 I think

00:30:55.800 is a

00:30:56.060 strange

00:30:56.360 one

00:30:56.640 that said

00:30:57.360 it is

00:30:57.800 in dire

00:30:58.200 straits

00:30:58.780 Joe

00:30:59.900 Biden

00:31:00.300 is a

00:31:01.180 matter

00:31:01.380 we've

00:31:01.940 talked

00:31:02.140 about

00:31:02.420 that

00:31:02.700 Kamala

00:31:03.120 Harris

00:31:03.420 is

00:31:03.600 even

00:31:03.800 worse

00:31:04.260 she's

00:31:04.760 less

00:31:05.060 liked

00:31:05.420 than

00:31:05.840 Joe

00:31:06.160 Biden

00:31:06.500 and

00:31:07.560 she

00:31:07.800 seems

00:31:08.360 to be

00:31:08.780 exposing

00:31:09.220 herself

00:31:09.740 for

00:31:09.980 what

00:31:10.200 she

00:31:10.360 is

00:31:10.640 which

00:31:10.960 is

00:31:11.260 an

00:31:12.540 authoritarian

00:31:13.000 who

00:31:13.620 believes

00:31:14.200 in

00:31:14.400 nothing

00:31:14.740 so

00:31:15.100 I

00:31:15.520 can

00:31:15.680 understand

00:31:16.040 why

00:31:16.220 Hillary

00:31:16.440 Clinton

00:31:16.720 might

00:31:16.980 look

00:31:17.380 at

00:31:17.580 the

00:31:17.840 race

00:31:18.120 and

00:31:18.320 say

00:31:18.640 there's

00:31:19.860 my

00:31:20.040 opening

00:31:20.400 but

00:31:20.720 I

00:31:21.340 think

00:31:21.500 it

00:31:21.600 would

00:31:21.700 be

00:31:21.820 a

00:31:22.080 profound

00:31:22.440 mistake

00:31:22.960 for

00:31:23.500 her

00:31:24.080 and

00:31:24.660 for

00:31:25.020 the

00:31:25.140 party

00:31:25.520 I

00:31:25.880 mean

00:31:26.660 at

00:31:26.880 this

00:31:27.120 rate

00:31:27.400 Charles

00:31:27.680 we

00:31:27.900 could

00:31:28.060 get

00:31:28.320 a

00:31:28.520 2024

00:31:29.040 campaign

00:31:30.500 that's

00:31:31.340 once

00:31:31.680 again

00:31:32.120 Clinton

00:31:32.620 v

00:31:33.200 Trump

00:31:33.600 I

00:31:34.320 mean

00:31:35.620 it's

00:31:35.860 possible

00:31:36.300 it's

00:31:36.880 possible

00:31:37.220 Trump

00:31:37.800 would

00:31:37.960 win

00:31:38.180 that

00:31:38.440 and

00:31:38.700 I

00:31:39.220 think

00:31:39.480 if

00:31:39.680 you

00:31:40.040 don't

00:31:40.360 want

00:31:40.700 Donald

00:31:41.000 Trump

00:31:41.180 to be

00:31:41.460 president

00:31:41.820 again

00:31:42.240 as I

00:31:42.720 don't

00:31:43.040 I

00:31:43.200 would

00:31:43.340 like

00:31:43.500 the

00:31:43.640 Republican

00:31:44.060 Party

00:31:44.440 to

00:31:44.660 move

00:31:44.940 on

00:31:45.220 and

00:31:45.760 nominate

00:31:46.520 one

00:31:46.740 of

00:31:46.840 its

00:31:47.020 talented

00:31:47.580 forward

00:31:48.100 looking

00:31:48.500 younger

00:31:49.160 candidates

00:31:49.840 you

00:31:51.040 should

00:31:51.680 hope

00:31:52.640 that

00:31:53.340 the

00:31:53.480 Democratic

00:31:53.980 Party

00:31:54.500 isn't

00:31:55.320 weak

00:31:55.660 enough

00:31:56.080 to

00:31:56.920 that

00:31:57.600 outcome

00:31:58.080 because

00:31:58.600 at

00:31:59.200 the

00:31:59.360 moment

00:31:59.780 I

00:32:00.300 have

00:32:00.520 to

00:32:00.680 say

00:32:01.020 it

00:32:02.020 looks

00:32:02.300 to

00:32:02.460 me

00:32:02.640 as

00:32:02.820 if

00:32:02.960 Trump

00:32:03.140 would

00:32:03.280 have

00:32:03.400 a

00:32:03.500 good

00:32:03.660 shot

00:32:03.960 if

00:32:04.120 he

00:32:04.240 ran

00:32:04.380 again

00:32:04.680 against

00:32:05.720 any

00:32:06.280 of

00:32:06.500 these

00:32:06.760 folks

00:32:07.180 Biden

00:32:08.040 Kamala

00:32:09.240 or

00:32:10.180 Hillary

00:32:10.740 or

00:32:10.960 Buttigieg

00:32:11.540 there's

00:32:12.260 no

00:32:12.440 savior

00:32:12.820 for

00:32:13.020 the

00:32:13.160 Democratic

00:32:13.480 Party

00:32:13.880 right

00:32:14.120 now

00:32:14.320 unless

00:32:14.540 they

00:32:14.700 can

00:32:14.860 get

00:32:15.140 Oprah

00:32:15.920 or

00:32:16.540 The

00:32:16.840 Rock

00:32:17.180 or

00:32:17.820 George

00:32:18.200 Clooney

00:32:18.660 to

00:32:19.180 run

00:32:19.500 they're

00:32:20.320 in

00:32:20.400 a

00:32:20.500 lot

00:32:20.640 of

00:32:20.740 trouble

00:32:21.000 and

00:32:21.320 sadly

00:32:21.840 the

00:32:22.080 grip

00:32:22.400 of

00:32:22.580 celebrity

00:32:22.960 in

00:32:23.140 our

00:32:23.260 society

00:32:23.660 remains

00:32:24.060 so

00:32:24.260 those

00:32:24.500 actually

00:32:25.100 would

00:32:25.320 be

00:32:25.460 potential

00:32:25.840 threats

00:32:26.240 all right

00:32:26.940 on the

00:32:27.360 subject

00:32:27.680 of

00:32:28.040 women

00:32:28.520 powerful

00:32:29.140 women

00:32:29.480 I've

00:32:30.500 been

00:32:30.600 paying

00:32:30.760 attention

00:32:31.060 to

00:32:31.200 this

00:32:31.420 University

00:32:31.860 of

00:32:32.000 Pennsylvania

00:32:32.300 story

00:32:32.720 with

00:32:32.960 this

00:32:33.240 swimmer

00:32:33.780 and

00:32:34.760 at

00:32:35.120 first

00:32:35.360 it

00:32:35.460 was

00:32:35.580 like

00:32:35.740 wait

00:32:35.920 what's

00:32:36.200 happening

00:32:36.480 and

00:32:36.620 now

00:32:36.780 the

00:32:36.960 more

00:32:37.160 I

00:32:37.320 read

00:32:37.520 about

00:32:37.720 it

00:32:37.820 the

00:32:37.920 more

00:32:38.100 I

00:32:38.220 find

00:32:38.440 it

00:32:38.560 deeply

00:32:38.800 disturbing

00:32:39.260 and

00:32:39.660 I

00:32:39.780 think

00:32:39.980 it's

00:32:40.640 it's

00:32:40.860 the

00:32:41.000 future

00:32:41.400 and

00:32:42.140 I

00:32:42.260 really

00:32:42.520 think

00:32:42.800 people

00:32:43.040 have

00:32:43.240 an

00:32:43.360 obligation

00:32:43.720 to

00:32:43.960 jump

00:32:44.180 up

00:32:44.360 and

00:32:44.500 down

00:32:44.720 and

00:32:44.900 say

00:32:45.120 no

00:32:45.560 no

00:32:45.880 it

00:32:46.040 isn't

00:32:46.400 going

00:32:46.600 to

00:32:46.760 be

00:32:46.860 our

00:32:47.000 future

00:32:47.280 we

00:32:47.520 have

00:32:47.720 to

00:32:47.840 stand

00:32:48.060 up

00:32:48.240 for

00:32:48.400 women

00:32:48.660 and

00:32:49.980 if

00:32:50.320 that

00:32:50.540 leads

00:32:50.980 to

00:32:51.160 bad

00:32:51.400 names

00:32:51.660 being

00:32:51.880 called

00:32:52.160 so

00:32:52.400 be

00:32:52.560 it

00:32:52.740 you

00:32:53.140 know

00:32:53.260 what

00:32:53.560 doesn't

00:32:53.920 these

00:32:54.160 days

00:32:54.420 but

00:32:54.620 there

00:32:54.840 is

00:32:54.980 a

00:32:55.120 swimmer

00:32:55.640 named

00:32:56.880 Leah

00:32:57.420 Thomas

00:32:57.900 now

00:32:58.300 and

00:32:59.720 she

00:33:00.120 has

00:33:00.540 been

00:33:00.960 identifying

00:33:01.800 as

00:33:02.040 a

00:33:02.160 woman

00:33:02.360 as

00:33:02.520 far

00:33:02.640 as

00:33:02.740 I

00:33:02.820 can

00:33:02.920 tell

00:33:03.080 for

00:33:03.220 about

00:33:03.480 a

00:33:03.660 year

00:33:03.900 and

00:33:04.780 she

00:33:13.040 was

00:33:13.180 doing

00:33:13.380 pretty

00:33:13.600 well

00:33:13.960 as

00:33:14.520 a

00:33:14.660 male

00:33:14.860 on

00:33:15.400 the

00:33:15.560 swim

00:33:15.760 team

00:33:16.020 but

00:33:16.960 decided

00:33:17.460 to

00:33:17.680 transition

00:33:18.180 and

00:33:18.960 was

00:33:19.200 allowed

00:33:19.740 after

00:33:20.100 the

00:33:20.380 very

00:33:20.620 next

00:33:20.880 season

00:33:21.220 to

00:33:21.620 swim

00:33:21.840 as

00:33:21.980 a

00:33:22.400 woman

00:33:22.620 and

00:33:23.260 now

00:33:23.540 is

00:33:23.920 crushing

00:33:24.860 it

00:33:25.180 on

00:33:25.760 the

00:33:25.920 UPenn

00:33:26.440 women's

00:33:26.980 team

00:33:27.240 and

00:33:27.800 a

00:33:27.960 couple

00:33:28.220 of

00:33:28.480 the

00:33:28.660 female

00:33:29.200 teammates

00:33:29.960 have

00:33:30.780 under

00:33:31.140 the

00:33:31.300 cloak

00:33:31.500 of

00:33:31.620 anonymity

00:33:32.100 because

00:33:32.380 they

00:33:32.580 are

00:33:32.760 worried

00:33:33.080 as

00:33:33.300 they

00:33:33.440 said

00:33:33.640 to

00:33:33.820 outkick

00:33:34.260 they've

00:33:35.060 spoken

00:33:35.280 to

00:33:35.420 outkick

00:33:35.800 what

00:33:36.800 they've

00:33:37.020 said

00:33:37.200 is

00:33:37.340 I

00:33:37.700 would

00:33:37.880 like

00:33:38.040 to

00:33:38.160 get

00:33:38.240 a

00:33:38.360 job

00:33:38.660 when

00:33:38.860 I

00:33:39.000 finish

00:33:39.500 college

00:33:40.280 so

00:33:40.820 I

00:33:41.000 cannot

00:33:41.260 give

00:33:41.560 you

00:33:41.660 my

00:33:41.840 name

00:33:42.020 on

00:33:42.160 the

00:33:42.280 record

00:33:42.520 because

00:33:42.860 if

00:33:43.060 I

00:33:43.220 say

00:33:43.580 as

00:33:44.220 an

00:33:44.380 accomplished

00:33:44.740 swimmer

00:33:45.120 at an

00:33:45.860 Ivy League

00:33:46.220 school

00:33:46.520 that I

00:33:46.840 don't

00:33:47.060 want

00:33:47.280 this

00:33:47.520 I

00:33:47.980 will

00:33:48.120 be

00:33:48.260 unhirable

00:33:48.780 but

00:33:51.060 they

00:33:51.300 are

00:33:51.720 not

00:33:51.940 in

00:33:52.100 support

00:33:52.380 of

00:33:52.540 this

00:33:52.800 and

00:33:53.340 what

00:33:53.520 they

00:33:53.720 told

00:33:54.040 outkick

00:33:54.540 was

00:33:54.740 that

00:33:55.020 while

00:33:55.440 they

00:33:56.000 feel

00:33:56.340 like

00:33:56.540 they

00:33:56.680 have

00:33:56.900 no

00:33:57.080 choice

00:33:57.400 but

00:33:57.580 to

00:33:57.760 say

00:33:58.000 to

00:33:58.300 Leah

00:33:58.600 as

00:33:58.860 she's

00:33:59.060 swimming

00:33:59.320 you

00:33:59.600 go

00:33:59.980 good

00:34:08.040 there

00:34:08.920 was

00:34:09.380 they

00:34:09.520 were

00:34:09.620 talking

00:34:09.800 about

00:34:09.960 how

00:34:10.080 this

00:34:10.260 one

00:34:10.500 race

00:34:10.880 she

00:34:11.820 Leah

00:34:12.300 raced

00:34:13.300 they

00:34:13.820 said

00:34:14.000 usually

00:34:14.480 everyone

00:34:14.800 claps

00:34:15.220 everyone

00:34:15.500 yells

00:34:15.780 and

00:34:15.940 cheers

00:34:16.160 when

00:34:16.360 someone

00:34:16.580 wins

00:34:17.300 a

00:34:17.480 race

00:34:17.740 Leah

00:34:18.200 touched

00:34:18.480 the

00:34:18.620 wall

00:34:18.840 and

00:34:19.020 it

00:34:19.100 was

00:34:19.240 just

00:34:19.500 silent

00:34:20.200 in

00:34:20.820 there

00:34:21.040 in

00:34:21.220 the

00:34:21.340 arena

00:34:21.640 when

00:34:22.800 the

00:34:23.460 UPenn

00:34:24.320 swimmer

00:34:24.760 Anna

00:34:25.220 Kellen

00:34:26.000 finished

00:34:26.960 second

00:34:28.260 then the

00:34:28.920 crowd

00:34:29.160 erupted

00:34:29.560 in applause

00:34:30.080 understanding

00:34:30.580 that

00:34:30.840 that

00:34:31.620 woman

00:34:31.840 Anna

00:34:32.160 should

00:34:32.420 have

00:34:32.540 been

00:34:32.680 the

00:34:32.820 rightful

00:34:33.100 winner

00:34:33.340 if

00:34:34.040 Leah

00:34:34.640 had

00:34:34.840 been

00:34:35.040 swimming

00:34:35.400 in

00:34:35.560 the

00:34:35.680 properly

00:34:36.180 gendered

00:34:36.880 race

00:34:37.220 here

00:34:38.440 is

00:34:38.640 a

00:34:38.780 clip

00:34:39.120 I'm

00:34:39.400 going

00:34:39.460 to

00:34:39.580 play

00:34:39.900 I'm

00:34:40.020 going

00:34:40.080 to

00:34:40.160 keep

00:34:40.280 my

00:34:40.440 mic

00:34:40.660 up

00:34:40.800 so

00:34:40.940 that

00:34:41.080 the

00:34:41.240 listening

00:34:41.500 audience

00:34:41.900 can

00:34:42.080 understand

00:34:42.340 what's

00:34:42.560 happening

00:34:42.880 but

00:34:43.560 this

00:34:43.980 was

00:34:44.580 Leah

00:34:45.360 Thomas

00:34:45.960 swimming

00:34:46.940 at

00:34:47.380 a

00:34:47.500 recent

00:34:47.800 meet

00:34:48.060 and

00:34:48.360 I

00:34:48.640 mean

00:34:48.980 crushing

00:34:50.180 crushing

00:34:51.040 everyone

00:34:51.800 else

00:34:52.200 by a

00:34:52.800 mile

00:34:53.060 let's

00:34:53.340 watch

00:34:53.560 it

00:34:54.120 okay

00:34:54.520 so

00:34:54.760 there's

00:34:55.800 no

00:34:55.940 sound

00:34:56.240 but

00:34:56.380 you

00:34:56.460 can

00:34:56.600 see

00:34:56.780 one

00:34:57.160 swimmer

00:34:57.700 miles

00:34:58.760 ahead

00:34:59.000 of

00:34:59.120 the

00:34:59.240 others

00:34:59.540 here

00:35:00.620 you

00:35:00.740 can

00:35:00.840 see

00:35:00.980 a

00:35:01.060 arrow

00:35:01.560 that's

00:35:01.840 going

00:35:01.920 to

00:35:02.000 show

00:35:02.240 where

00:35:02.460 she

00:35:02.660 is

00:35:02.980 and

00:35:03.840 I

00:35:03.940 mean

00:35:04.040 it's

00:35:04.200 not

00:35:04.340 even

00:35:04.480 close

00:35:04.840 Charles

00:35:05.160 she's

00:35:05.460 just

00:35:05.660 that

00:35:06.260 no

00:35:06.400 one's

00:35:06.580 even

00:35:06.800 no

00:35:07.180 one's

00:35:07.340 even

00:35:07.500 in

00:35:07.720 it

00:35:07.820 now

00:35:07.960 she's

00:35:08.240 done

00:35:08.480 and

00:35:09.280 the

00:35:09.440 other

00:35:09.620 swimmers

00:35:09.900 are

00:35:10.140 you know

00:35:10.520 still

00:35:10.720 trying

00:35:10.960 to

00:35:11.080 catch

00:35:11.240 up

00:35:11.440 and

00:35:11.600 I

00:35:11.780 mean

00:35:11.880 it's

00:35:12.040 not

00:35:12.180 even

00:35:12.320 close

00:35:12.540 and

00:35:12.780 indeed

00:35:13.180 not

00:35:14.000 only

00:35:14.200 is

00:35:14.380 she

00:35:14.500 breaking

00:35:14.840 records

00:35:15.240 right

00:35:15.460 now

00:35:15.800 but

00:35:16.600 she

00:35:16.860 broke

00:35:17.160 some

00:35:17.440 records

00:35:17.920 even

00:35:19.120 as

00:35:19.300 a

00:35:19.400 man

00:35:19.700 so

00:35:20.360 you

00:35:20.540 tell

00:35:20.820 me

00:35:21.240 whether

00:35:31.560 at

00:35:31.740 the

00:35:31.860 same

00:35:32.080 time

00:35:32.380 the

00:35:32.580 international

00:35:33.020 olympic

00:35:33.460 committee

00:35:33.720 is

00:35:34.500 saying

00:35:34.860 we're

00:35:35.160 changing

00:35:35.540 our

00:35:35.780 rule

00:35:36.060 that

00:35:36.660 would

00:35:36.840 have

00:35:36.940 required

00:35:37.320 at

00:35:37.560 least

00:35:37.740 one

00:35:38.200 year

00:35:38.480 of

00:35:38.620 testosterone

00:35:39.120 suppression

00:35:39.720 for

00:35:40.500 all

00:35:40.760 athletes

00:35:41.200 who

00:35:41.620 are

00:35:41.740 transitioning

00:35:42.280 we're

00:35:42.900 now

00:35:43.080 going

00:35:43.240 to

00:35:43.320 leave

00:35:43.500 it

00:35:43.620 up

00:35:43.740 to

00:35:43.880 each

00:35:44.160 individual

00:35:44.700 sport

00:35:45.240 and

00:35:46.360 I

00:35:46.500 predict

00:35:46.840 most

00:35:47.180 of

00:35:47.280 those

00:35:47.400 sports

00:35:47.680 are

00:35:47.800 going

00:35:47.880 to

00:35:47.940 feel

00:35:48.080 the

00:35:48.260 same

00:35:48.440 as

00:35:48.580 these

00:35:48.760 U Penn

00:35:49.100 swimmers

00:35:49.500 and

00:35:50.160 say

00:35:50.380 I

00:35:50.620 don't

00:35:50.780 want

00:35:50.900 to

00:35:50.960 be

00:35:51.060 the

00:35:51.180 one

00:35:51.320 to

00:35:51.460 say

00:35:51.620 that

00:35:51.800 they

00:35:51.960 can't

00:35:52.280 do

00:35:52.460 it

00:35:52.660 and

00:35:53.560 basically

00:35:54.160 you can

00:35:55.180 transition

00:35:55.560 into

00:35:55.820 women's

00:35:56.180 sports

00:35:56.480 just

00:35:57.200 by

00:35:57.380 declaring

00:35:57.720 yourself

00:35:58.040 a

00:35:58.200 woman

00:35:58.420 you

00:35:58.800 can

00:35:58.940 be

00:35:59.060 a

00:35:59.180 gold

00:35:59.340 medalist

00:35:59.840 you

00:36:00.220 can

00:36:00.340 get

00:36:00.480 all

00:36:00.600 the

00:36:00.720 scholarships

00:36:01.120 you

00:36:01.360 can

00:36:01.460 get

00:36:01.580 the

00:36:01.740 prize

00:36:02.060 money

00:36:02.340 and

00:36:03.080 if

00:36:03.360 any

00:36:03.720 of

00:36:03.860 these

00:36:04.000 women

00:36:04.220 speak

00:36:04.560 up

00:36:04.840 they'll

00:36:05.480 be

00:36:05.600 labeled

00:36:05.920 bigoted

00:36:06.680 and

00:36:06.860 lose

00:36:07.040 jobs

00:36:07.300 to

00:36:07.580 me

00:36:07.780 it's

00:36:07.980 outright

00:36:08.300 misogyny

00:36:09.020 your

00:36:09.740 thoughts

00:36:10.040 I'm

00:36:11.140 happy

00:36:11.460 to

00:36:11.860 say

00:36:12.080 it

00:36:12.220 I

00:36:12.320 understand

00:36:12.600 why

00:36:12.860 they

00:36:13.040 weren't

00:36:13.600 this

00:36:14.520 person

00:36:14.880 is

00:36:15.080 an

00:36:15.200 imposter

00:36:15.700 and

00:36:16.720 funnily

00:36:17.200 enough

00:36:17.660 I

00:36:18.000 don't

00:36:18.220 think

00:36:18.480 that

00:36:18.660 that

00:36:18.840 is

00:36:18.980 a

00:36:19.140 controversial

00:36:19.760 view

00:36:21.220 I

00:36:22.040 think

00:36:22.220 the

00:36:22.420 success

00:36:22.820 of

00:36:22.980 this

00:36:23.160 movement

00:36:23.520 has

00:36:23.880 been

00:36:24.040 to

00:36:24.220 take

00:36:24.460 over

00:36:24.680 certain

00:36:25.000 institutions

00:36:25.760 such

00:36:27.280 that

00:36:27.720 those

00:36:28.700 who

00:36:29.180 are

00:36:29.380 the

00:36:29.600 closest

00:36:30.060 to

00:36:30.520 it

00:36:30.700 feel

00:36:30.960 unable

00:36:31.360 to

00:36:32.760 object

00:36:33.420 but

00:36:33.980 I

00:36:35.280 would

00:36:35.620 be

00:36:35.800 shocked

00:36:36.240 if

00:36:36.540 80

00:36:36.840 90

00:36:37.200 percent

00:36:37.580 of

00:36:37.740 Americans

00:36:38.180 didn't

00:36:38.680 look

00:36:39.000 at

00:36:39.140 this

00:36:39.440 and

00:36:39.660 instinctively

00:36:40.340 understand

00:36:41.140 the

00:36:41.940 problem

00:36:42.360 and

00:36:43.220 oppose

00:36:43.840 this

00:36:44.720 practice

00:36:45.160 there

00:36:46.100 is

00:36:46.280 a

00:36:46.500 reason

00:36:46.880 that

00:36:47.840 we

00:36:48.220 as

00:36:48.960 a

00:36:49.120 matter

00:36:49.380 of

00:36:49.640 habit

00:36:50.020 separate

00:36:50.740 out

00:36:51.320 men

00:36:52.060 and

00:36:52.440 women

00:36:52.800 in

00:36:53.660 sport

00:36:54.160 it's

00:36:55.640 not

00:36:56.000 bigotry

00:36:56.760 it's

00:36:57.720 biology

00:36:58.260 men

00:36:59.740 on

00:37:00.640 average

00:37:01.320 are

00:37:02.100 stronger

00:37:02.680 and

00:37:03.520 taller

00:37:03.940 than

00:37:04.900 women

00:37:05.440 are

00:37:05.900 and

00:37:06.540 because

00:37:06.920 we

00:37:07.760 like

00:37:08.080 to

00:37:08.260 see

00:37:08.440 competition

00:37:09.120 in

00:37:09.620 our

00:37:09.820 sports

00:37:10.280 we

00:37:11.480 don't

00:37:11.740 have

00:37:11.980 a

00:37:12.100 great

00:37:12.320 deal

00:37:12.580 of

00:37:12.720 interest

00:37:13.320 in

00:37:14.480 watching

00:37:15.360 mixed

00:37:17.220 competitions

00:37:18.460 where

00:37:19.340 one

00:37:20.520 person

00:37:21.080 with

00:37:21.440 different

00:37:21.940 immutable

00:37:22.520 characteristics

00:37:23.440 than

00:37:24.260 the

00:37:24.580 other

00:37:24.900 is

00:37:25.820 bound

00:37:27.760 to

00:37:28.000 dominate

00:37:28.440 is

00:37:29.720 predicted

00:37:30.160 to

00:37:30.400 dominate

00:37:30.700 is

00:37:31.080 in

00:37:31.220 this

00:37:31.400 case

00:37:31.620 guaranteed

00:37:32.300 to

00:37:33.440 dominate

00:37:33.820 I

00:37:35.580 suspect

00:37:36.480 that

00:37:36.860 over

00:37:37.080 the

00:37:37.320 long

00:37:37.600 run

00:37:37.920 this

00:37:39.520 will

00:37:39.820 change

00:37:40.440 because

00:37:40.920 there

00:37:41.580 are

00:37:41.740 millions

00:37:42.100 of

00:37:42.360 people

00:37:42.640 out

00:37:42.900 there

00:37:43.240 whose

00:37:44.120 daughters

00:37:44.760 have

00:37:46.200 made

00:37:46.620 great

00:37:47.060 sacrifices

00:37:47.720 parents

00:37:48.420 who've

00:37:48.640 made

00:37:48.780 great

00:37:49.040 sacrifices

00:37:49.620 too

00:37:50.040 in

00:37:50.660 all

00:37:50.920 sorts

00:37:51.240 of

00:37:51.420 sports

00:37:51.860 to

00:37:53.140 get

00:37:53.440 them

00:37:53.620 up

00:37:53.800 to

00:37:53.960 a

00:37:54.140 collegiate

00:37:54.620 or

00:37:54.900 professional

00:37:55.640 level

00:37:56.160 and

00:37:57.340 no

00:37:57.620 one

00:37:57.840 wants

00:37:58.200 to

00:37:58.860 arrive

00:38:00.360 at

00:38:00.580 an

00:38:00.740 event

00:38:01.180 and

00:38:01.720 understand

00:38:02.320 from

00:38:02.580 the

00:38:02.740 get

00:38:02.920 go

00:38:03.120 that

00:38:03.340 they're

00:38:03.560 competing

00:38:04.000 for

00:38:04.420 second

00:38:04.680 place

00:38:05.120 which

00:38:05.880 is

00:38:06.040 what

00:38:06.220 we're

00:38:06.460 watching

00:38:06.780 in

00:38:06.980 that

00:38:07.140 video

00:38:07.480 we're

00:38:07.880 watching

00:38:08.200 a

00:38:08.400 group

00:38:08.640 of

00:38:09.420 well

00:38:10.100 trained

00:38:10.480 and

00:38:10.700 disciplined

00:38:11.420 women

00:38:11.900 competing

00:38:12.440 for

00:38:13.540 second

00:38:14.160 place

00:38:14.580 and

00:38:15.200 I

00:38:15.460 think

00:38:15.700 there

00:38:15.960 is

00:38:16.140 a

00:38:16.280 big

00:38:16.460 difference

00:38:17.040 between

00:38:17.860 the

00:38:18.540 initial

00:38:19.080 claim

00:38:19.600 of

00:38:20.960 the

00:38:21.260 transgender

00:38:21.840 rights

00:38:22.340 movement

00:38:22.720 and

00:38:23.720 the

00:38:24.280 sort

00:38:25.760 of

00:38:26.080 radicalism

00:38:26.880 that

00:38:27.200 has

00:38:27.440 led

00:38:27.620 to

00:38:27.780 this

00:38:28.040 the

00:38:28.300 initial

00:38:28.640 claim

00:38:29.020 is

00:38:29.280 some

00:38:30.100 people

00:38:30.500 and

00:38:31.000 put it

00:38:31.720 however

00:38:31.900 you

00:38:32.100 want

00:38:32.280 believe

00:38:32.740 they

00:38:32.980 are

00:38:33.280 or

00:38:33.580 metaphysically

00:38:34.440 are

00:38:34.840 I'm

00:38:35.880 more

00:38:36.020 in

00:38:36.140 the

00:38:36.260 belief

00:38:36.520 camp

00:38:36.840 but

00:38:37.020 that's

00:38:37.200 a

00:38:37.320 separate

00:38:37.580 debate

00:38:38.020 of

00:38:39.520 the

00:38:39.760 opposite

00:38:40.220 sex

00:38:41.100 and

00:38:41.680 it

00:38:41.800 is

00:38:42.000 polite

00:38:42.420 to

00:38:43.180 treat

00:38:43.700 them

00:38:44.000 as

00:38:44.480 such

00:38:44.840 to

00:38:46.040 refer

00:38:46.820 to

00:38:47.080 them

00:38:47.360 as

00:38:47.760 such

00:38:48.160 not

00:38:49.240 to

00:38:49.500 mock

00:38:49.760 them

00:38:50.080 if

00:38:50.260 they

00:38:50.400 dress

00:38:50.960 as

00:38:51.420 such

00:38:51.840 to

00:38:52.520 for

00:38:52.760 all

00:38:52.940 intents

00:38:53.320 and

00:38:53.520 purposes

00:38:53.940 believe

00:38:55.340 their

00:38:55.660 claims

00:38:56.060 the

00:38:57.180 second

00:38:57.660 part

00:38:58.560 of

00:38:58.740 the

00:38:59.500 case

00:38:59.900 is

00:39:00.260 you

00:39:01.100 have

00:39:01.360 to

00:39:01.600 restructure

00:39:02.100 your

00:39:02.320 society

00:39:02.800 around

00:39:03.600 the

00:39:03.840 idea

00:39:04.240 that

00:39:04.520 they

00:39:04.720 are

00:39:04.940 in

00:39:05.040 a

00:39:05.180 concrete

00:39:05.540 sense

00:39:06.020 what

00:39:06.860 they

00:39:07.060 say

00:39:07.280 they

00:39:07.440 are

00:39:07.560 change

00:39:07.980 the

00:39:08.160 birth

00:39:08.400 certificate

00:39:08.900 and the

00:39:09.340 passports

00:39:09.920 and so

00:39:10.280 on

00:39:10.420 and

00:39:11.100 be

00:39:12.620 treated

00:39:13.160 in all

00:39:14.020 cultural

00:39:14.600 contexts

00:39:15.420 as a

00:39:17.000 woman

00:39:17.220 or a

00:39:17.700 man

00:39:17.940 and I'm

00:39:18.780 afraid

00:39:19.000 that bit

00:39:19.440 gets

00:39:19.960 crazy

00:39:20.560 at the

00:39:21.660 bleeding

00:39:21.960 edge

00:39:22.320 it is

00:39:24.020 crazy

00:39:24.480 here

00:39:24.880 a man

00:39:26.200 saying

00:39:26.700 he's a

00:39:27.080 woman

00:39:27.320 still has

00:39:28.100 the

00:39:28.260 athletic

00:39:28.660 prowess

00:39:29.280 of

00:39:29.920 man

00:39:30.280 and

00:39:31.700 I

00:39:32.380 don't

00:39:32.860 think

00:39:33.260 there's

00:39:34.180 a lot

00:39:34.480 of

00:39:34.620 craziness

00:39:35.060 in our

00:39:35.440 society

00:39:35.860 but I

00:39:36.340 don't

00:39:36.600 think

00:39:36.980 that

00:39:37.320 Americans

00:39:37.800 are going

00:39:38.080 to

00:39:38.200 tolerate

00:39:38.520 that

00:39:38.760 in the

00:39:39.020 long run

00:39:39.360 because

00:39:39.680 it is

00:39:40.040 self

00:39:40.400 evidently

00:39:41.340 counterproductive

00:39:42.760 you know

00:39:43.280 Christine

00:39:43.640 Rosen

00:39:43.960 over at

00:39:44.340 Commentary

00:39:44.720 Magazine

00:39:45.040 had a

00:39:45.380 great

00:39:45.560 piece

00:39:45.800 this

00:39:45.980 week

00:39:46.180 and

00:39:46.280 they

00:39:46.360 were

00:39:46.460 talking

00:39:46.640 about

00:39:46.820 on

00:39:47.000 their

00:39:47.120 podcast

00:39:47.660 about

00:39:48.520 how

00:39:48.960 it's

00:39:49.300 not

00:39:49.500 just

00:39:49.800 you

00:39:50.000 have

00:39:50.160 to

00:39:50.260 accept

00:39:50.660 that

00:39:50.880 they

00:39:51.060 are

00:39:51.360 in fact

00:39:52.040 biological

00:39:52.740 women

00:39:53.180 which

00:39:53.440 is

00:39:53.560 a

00:39:53.720 lie

00:39:54.080 you

00:39:55.360 you

00:39:55.980 now

00:39:56.240 need

00:39:56.440 to

00:39:56.580 change

00:39:57.000 the

00:39:57.140 way

00:39:57.240 you

00:39:57.360 refer

00:39:57.600 to

00:39:57.740 yourself

00:39:58.240 as

00:39:58.560 a

00:39:58.660 woman

00:39:58.840 you're

00:39:59.000 not

00:39:59.140 allowed

00:39:59.320 to

00:39:59.480 say

00:39:59.600 that

00:39:59.740 you

00:39:59.860 breastfeed

00:40:00.360 it's

00:40:00.580 now

00:40:00.780 chest

00:40:01.100 feed

00:40:01.400 right

00:40:01.960 it's

00:40:02.360 people

00:40:03.120 who

00:40:03.400 get

00:40:03.600 pregnant

00:40:03.960 as

00:40:04.160 opposed

00:40:04.380 to

00:40:04.560 women

00:40:04.900 thus

00:40:05.760 taking

00:40:06.440 away

00:40:06.740 something

00:40:07.020 that's

00:40:07.460 really

00:40:07.820 special

00:40:08.500 and

00:40:08.780 incredible

00:40:09.220 about

00:40:09.820 women

00:40:10.440 and has

00:40:10.820 been

00:40:11.040 from

00:40:11.220 time

00:40:11.480 in

00:40:11.620 memoriam

00:40:12.000 and has

00:40:12.360 been

00:40:12.500 something

00:40:12.720 that

00:40:12.900 we've

00:40:13.080 dealt

00:40:13.240 with

00:40:13.480 when

00:40:14.200 used

00:40:14.420 against

00:40:14.780 us

00:40:15.060 as

00:40:15.300 somehow

00:40:15.560 a

00:40:15.800 weakness

00:40:16.160 but

00:40:16.760 now

00:40:17.120 now

00:40:17.480 it

00:40:17.620 gets

00:40:17.840 co-opted

00:40:18.380 now

00:40:18.500 that

00:40:18.620 it

00:40:18.680 can

00:40:18.780 be

00:40:18.880 something

00:40:19.140 that's

00:40:19.420 wonderful

00:40:19.680 but

00:40:19.900 a

00:40:20.020 biological

00:40:20.360 man

00:40:20.640 cannot

00:40:20.920 do

00:40:21.200 it

00:40:21.340 and

00:40:21.500 not

00:40:21.700 nor

00:40:21.920 can

00:40:22.080 a

00:40:22.220 trans

00:40:22.520 woman

00:40:22.760 and

00:40:24.560 in

00:40:25.000 the

00:40:25.440 case

00:40:25.680 of

00:40:25.900 Leah

00:40:33.600 because

00:40:33.760 she's

00:40:34.040 at

00:40:34.140 a

00:40:34.240 clear

00:40:34.480 physical

00:40:34.840 advantage

00:40:35.240 after

00:40:35.560 having

00:40:35.820 gone

00:40:36.180 through

00:40:36.520 male

00:40:36.900 puberty

00:40:37.360 we had

00:40:38.100 experts

00:40:38.380 on the

00:40:38.640 show

00:40:38.780 who

00:40:38.920 talked

00:40:39.120 about

00:40:39.280 that

00:40:39.500 if

00:40:39.640 you

00:40:39.760 take

00:40:39.960 two

00:40:40.640 nine

00:40:41.020 year

00:40:41.180 old

00:40:41.400 kids

00:40:41.720 a

00:40:41.920 boy

00:40:42.200 and

00:40:42.320 a

00:40:42.400 girl

00:40:42.600 they'd

00:40:42.960 be

00:40:43.060 evenly

00:40:43.360 matched

00:40:43.700 up

00:40:43.920 because

00:40:44.180 before

00:40:44.480 puberty

00:40:44.860 the boy

00:40:45.640 has

00:40:45.880 no

00:40:46.040 natural

00:40:46.360 advantage

00:40:46.720 over

00:40:46.900 the girl

00:40:47.240 physically

00:40:47.780 after

00:40:48.500 years

00:40:48.900 of

00:40:49.060 testosterone

00:40:49.600 which

00:40:50.040 you

00:40:50.160 get

00:40:50.320 during

00:40:50.540 puberty

00:40:50.880 as

00:40:51.040 a

00:40:51.160 boy

00:40:51.400 it's

00:40:52.000 a

00:40:52.100 different

00:40:52.260 story

00:40:52.580 that's

00:40:52.880 why

00:40:53.060 my

00:40:53.260 husband

00:40:53.580 who's

00:40:53.880 six

00:40:54.040 two

00:40:54.300 has

00:40:54.560 very

00:40:55.060 long

00:40:55.400 femurs

00:40:55.940 and

00:40:56.240 big

00:40:56.500 muscles

00:40:56.980 and

00:40:57.580 I

00:40:57.780 at

00:40:57.900 five

00:40:58.080 seven

00:40:58.400 do

00:40:58.620 not

00:40:59.000 and

00:40:59.620 if

00:40:59.900 he

00:41:00.080 took

00:41:00.360 a

00:41:00.520 year

00:41:00.780 of

00:41:00.960 testosterone

00:41:01.520 suppression

00:41:02.100 therapy

00:41:02.560 he would

00:41:03.560 still

00:41:04.040 have

00:41:04.300 those

00:41:04.500 advantages

00:41:04.940 perhaps

00:41:05.280 not

00:41:05.660 to

00:41:05.820 the

00:41:05.940 extent

00:41:06.180 he

00:41:06.400 did

00:41:06.620 before

00:41:06.900 he

00:41:07.080 started

00:41:07.360 it

00:41:07.600 but

00:41:08.120 there's

00:41:08.380 no

00:41:08.620 getting

00:41:08.900 rid

00:41:09.220 of

00:41:09.420 the

00:41:09.540 natural

00:41:09.860 advantage

00:41:10.240 that

00:41:10.460 inures

00:41:12.120 to a

00:41:12.400 man

00:41:12.580 in

00:41:12.760 having

00:41:12.960 gone

00:41:13.140 through

00:41:13.300 puberty

00:41:13.580 and

00:41:14.260 her

00:41:14.420 other

00:41:14.600 point

00:41:14.800 was

00:41:15.080 that

00:41:16.040 Leah

00:41:16.340 Thomas

00:41:16.880 essentially

00:41:18.360 got

00:41:18.780 to

00:41:18.980 train

00:41:19.540 with

00:41:19.920 testosterone

00:41:20.600 for

00:41:21.580 years

00:41:22.060 right

00:41:22.520 which

00:41:22.700 the

00:41:22.880 women

00:41:23.060 are

00:41:23.220 not

00:41:23.440 allowed

00:41:23.640 to

00:41:23.780 do

00:41:23.960 but

00:41:24.440 can

00:41:24.620 I

00:41:24.720 just

00:41:24.900 play

00:41:25.140 for

00:41:25.300 you

00:41:25.440 Charles

00:41:25.800 what

00:41:26.820 Leah

00:41:27.160 Thomas

00:41:27.680 sounds

00:41:28.320 like

00:41:28.600 in

00:41:28.780 talking

00:41:29.120 about

00:41:29.540 her

00:41:30.300 many

00:41:30.800 victories

00:41:31.480 because

00:41:31.980 there's

00:41:32.220 absolutely

00:41:32.620 no

00:41:32.860 sensitivity

00:41:33.360 as far

00:41:33.680 as I

00:41:33.880 can

00:41:34.000 tell

00:41:34.200 for

00:41:34.720 what

00:41:35.020 this

00:41:35.320 is

00:41:35.460 doing

00:41:35.760 to

00:41:36.240 the

00:41:36.340 other

00:41:36.480 women

00:41:36.700 listen

00:41:37.040 you

00:41:38.500 did

00:41:38.780 break

00:41:39.280 Penn

00:41:39.880 school

00:41:40.200 records

00:41:40.860 on the

00:41:41.420 women's

00:41:41.880 side

00:41:42.160 what

00:41:42.580 can

00:41:42.940 you

00:41:43.060 describe

00:41:43.540 what

00:41:43.900 that

00:41:44.380 sensation

00:41:45.260 was like

00:41:45.840 for

00:41:46.060 you

00:41:48.780 being

00:41:49.260 on

00:41:49.440 the

00:41:49.560 women's

00:41:50.080 team

00:41:50.560 and

00:41:50.820 I'm

00:41:51.400 guessing

00:41:51.720 you

00:41:52.060 know

00:41:52.220 just

00:41:52.620 feeling

00:41:54.100 in a

00:41:55.560 good

00:41:55.740 place

00:41:56.140 with

00:41:56.360 your

00:41:56.500 transition

00:41:57.100 um

00:41:59.180 I'm

00:42:02.120 very

00:42:02.480 proud

00:42:02.840 of

00:42:03.320 my

00:42:03.620 times

00:42:04.460 and

00:42:05.040 um

00:42:06.320 my

00:42:08.580 ability

00:42:09.340 to

00:42:09.860 keep

00:42:13.020 swimming

00:42:13.360 and

00:42:13.820 continue

00:42:15.160 competing

00:42:15.640 and

00:42:16.300 you

00:42:18.320 know

00:42:18.460 there

00:42:18.660 suited

00:42:19.320 up

00:42:19.580 times

00:42:20.100 and

00:42:20.360 I'm

00:42:23.440 happy

00:42:23.720 with

00:42:23.900 them

00:42:24.140 my

00:42:24.420 coaches

00:42:24.860 are

00:42:25.020 happy

00:42:25.240 with

00:42:25.440 them

00:42:25.640 and

00:42:25.940 that's

00:42:27.680 what

00:42:27.980 matters

00:42:28.240 to

00:42:28.400 me

00:42:28.660 I'm

00:42:31.280 sure

00:42:31.480 I'm

00:42:31.760 sure

00:42:31.960 she

00:42:32.180 is

00:42:32.380 very

00:42:32.680 proud

00:42:33.040 of

00:42:33.640 herself

00:42:33.980 and

00:42:34.600 her

00:42:34.800 new

00:42:35.420 non-stop

00:42:36.560 record

00:42:37.020 breaking

00:42:37.380 performances

00:42:37.960 that's

00:42:38.760 not

00:42:38.980 really

00:42:39.260 the

00:42:39.480 issue

00:42:39.820 don't

00:42:41.920 you

00:42:42.600 feel

00:42:42.780 a bit

00:42:43.000 crazy

00:42:43.400 just

00:42:43.660 watching

00:42:44.000 that

00:42:44.320 yes

00:42:45.480 that's

00:42:45.720 a

00:42:45.820 man

00:42:46.160 right

00:42:47.280 that's

00:42:47.960 a

00:42:48.140 man

00:42:48.480 with

00:42:49.360 a

00:42:49.520 man's

00:42:49.860 voice

00:42:50.240 and

00:42:50.440 a

00:42:50.600 man's

00:42:50.960 physique

00:42:51.340 talking

00:42:51.760 about

00:42:52.160 competing

00:42:52.660 in

00:42:52.900 swimming

00:42:53.180 in

00:42:53.420 a

00:42:53.580 female

00:42:53.820 competition

00:42:54.420 and

00:42:54.900 whenever

00:42:55.980 you

00:42:56.220 read

00:42:56.420 a piece

00:42:56.740 defending

00:42:57.140 it

00:42:57.320 it

00:42:57.480 has

00:42:57.660 to

00:42:57.820 abstract

00:42:58.500 out

00:42:59.000 to

00:42:59.360 such

00:42:59.740 a

00:42:59.900 degree

00:43:00.400 all

00:43:01.780 of

00:43:02.020 the

00:43:02.380 things

00:43:02.840 that

00:43:03.020 we

00:43:03.140 can

00:43:03.320 see

00:43:03.620 with

00:43:03.880 our

00:43:04.100 own

00:43:04.320 eyes

00:43:04.780 in

00:43:05.700 order

00:43:05.900 to

00:43:06.160 overcome

00:43:06.520 them

00:43:06.940 and

00:43:07.240 as

00:43:07.420 I

00:43:07.540 say

00:43:07.660 I

00:43:07.860 just

00:43:08.060 don't

00:43:08.300 think

00:43:08.520 in

00:43:08.660 the

00:43:08.800 long

00:43:08.980 run

00:43:09.120 that

00:43:09.300 can

00:43:09.500 fly

00:43:10.040 I

00:43:11.200 also

00:43:11.780 think

00:43:12.320 that

00:43:13.180 the

00:43:13.720 people who

00:43:14.620 are

00:43:14.740 advancing

00:43:15.160 this

00:43:15.640 theory

00:43:16.420 are

00:43:16.740 going

00:43:17.120 to

00:43:17.220 have

00:43:17.340 to

00:43:17.460 at

00:43:17.560 some

00:43:17.740 point

00:43:18.000 pick

00:43:18.420 a

00:43:18.640 lane

00:43:19.020 it

00:43:20.160 was

00:43:20.560 very

00:43:20.880 interesting

00:43:21.420 listening

00:43:21.980 to the

00:43:22.360 oral

00:43:22.600 arguments

00:43:23.200 in

00:43:23.700 the

00:43:24.060 Dobbs

00:43:24.420 case

00:43:24.840 at

00:43:25.060 the

00:43:25.200 Supreme

00:43:25.500 Court

00:43:25.840 which

00:43:26.060 is

00:43:26.220 the

00:43:26.540 abortion

00:43:27.460 case

00:43:27.900 that

00:43:28.060 could

00:43:28.280 plausibly

00:43:28.960 overturn

00:43:29.420 Roe v

00:43:29.720 Wade

00:43:29.960 and

00:43:30.220 Casey

00:43:30.880 and

00:43:32.500 hearing

00:43:33.080 about

00:43:34.220 women

00:43:34.720 relentlessly

00:43:36.600 women

00:43:37.400 giving

00:43:38.000 birth

00:43:38.400 women's

00:43:39.180 place

00:43:39.600 in

00:43:40.100 society

00:43:40.840 gender

00:43:42.440 gaps

00:43:43.500 equality

00:43:44.840 under

00:43:45.160 the

00:43:45.320 law

00:43:45.560 as

00:43:45.920 it

00:43:46.080 relates

00:43:46.560 to

00:43:47.020 sex

00:43:47.760 when

00:43:50.700 we've

00:43:51.400 been

00:43:51.580 told

00:43:51.900 simultaneously

00:43:52.640 by many

00:43:53.180 of the

00:43:53.420 same

00:43:53.580 people

00:43:53.980 that

00:43:54.640 men

00:43:55.740 can

00:43:55.960 give

00:43:56.200 birth

00:43:56.680 and

00:43:57.280 to

00:43:58.580 the

00:43:58.760 point

00:43:59.040 at

00:43:59.220 which

00:43:59.380 the

00:43:59.540 ACLU

00:44:00.020 is

00:44:00.140 scrubbing

00:44:00.900 Ruth

00:44:01.160 Bader

00:44:01.400 Ginsburg

00:44:01.760 speeches

00:44:02.400 of

00:44:03.480 their

00:44:03.860 explicit

00:44:05.000 and

00:44:05.480 deliberate

00:44:05.940 references

00:44:07.080 to

00:44:08.000 women

00:44:08.500 and

00:44:09.200 women's

00:44:09.740 place

00:44:10.080 in

00:44:10.440 society

00:44:11.040 and

00:44:11.660 the

00:44:11.780 19th

00:44:12.260 amendment

00:44:12.620 and

00:44:13.760 equality

00:44:14.240 under

00:44:14.640 the

00:44:14.820 law

00:44:15.120 and

00:44:17.400 I

00:44:18.240 don't

00:44:18.460 know

00:44:18.580 how

00:44:18.700 you

00:44:18.820 can

00:44:18.960 really

00:44:19.160 reconcile

00:44:19.700 these

00:44:20.540 two

00:44:21.060 things

00:44:21.900 but I

00:44:22.220 think

00:44:22.360 they

00:44:22.500 will

00:44:22.660 have

00:44:22.860 to

00:44:22.980 be

00:44:23.100 reconciled

00:44:23.760 yeah

00:44:24.020 well I

00:44:24.880 recommend

00:44:25.180 that

00:44:25.360 commentary

00:44:25.720 podcast

00:44:26.260 of

00:44:26.440 John

00:44:26.640 Podoritz

00:44:27.100 was it

00:44:28.140 today

00:44:28.440 I'm losing

00:44:28.840 track of

00:44:29.220 the days

00:44:29.500 yesterday

00:44:30.000 but John

00:44:30.860 Podoritz

00:44:31.160 was making

00:44:31.500 a good

00:44:31.760 point too

00:44:32.160 which is

00:44:32.560 look at

00:44:33.460 how

00:44:33.780 sort of

00:44:34.280 the

00:44:34.400 left

00:44:34.880 and

00:44:35.580 their

00:44:36.740 advocates

00:44:37.280 rained down

00:44:37.840 on people

00:44:38.160 like

00:44:38.380 Rachel

00:44:38.700 Dolezal

00:44:39.260 right

00:44:39.560 a white

00:44:40.000 woman

00:44:40.340 who

00:44:41.020 darkened

00:44:41.740 her skin

00:44:42.160 and tried

00:44:42.480 to pose

00:44:42.980 as a

00:44:43.260 black

00:44:43.520 woman

00:44:43.840 and they

00:44:45.380 thought that

00:44:45.720 was

00:44:45.920 appropriation

00:44:47.220 right

00:44:47.460 like the

00:44:47.940 black

00:44:48.260 experience

00:44:48.920 he was

00:44:49.820 pointing out

00:44:50.140 you can't

00:44:50.620 even write

00:44:51.100 a book

00:44:51.600 as a

00:44:52.000 white

00:44:52.200 person

00:44:52.700 about

00:44:53.680 a

00:44:54.060 Hispanic

00:44:54.520 person

00:44:54.960 because

00:44:55.280 that's

00:44:55.720 appropriation

00:44:56.420 you can't

00:44:56.980 possibly

00:44:57.420 understand

00:44:57.900 the

00:44:58.040 Hispanic

00:44:58.400 experience

00:44:59.280 without

00:44:59.520 having

00:44:59.860 lived it

00:45:00.400 such that

00:45:01.100 you could

00:45:01.340 profit off

00:45:01.860 of a

00:45:02.120 novel

00:45:02.420 right

00:45:02.880 about

00:45:03.420 it

00:45:03.620 but

00:45:04.280 this

00:45:04.840 you can

00:45:05.640 completely

00:45:06.420 co-opt

00:45:07.000 the

00:45:07.160 experience

00:45:07.680 of

00:45:07.940 being

00:45:08.280 a

00:45:08.580 woman

00:45:08.940 just

00:45:09.220 by

00:45:09.440 declaring

00:45:10.040 it

00:45:10.440 so

00:45:10.820 you can

00:45:11.480 cross

00:45:12.000 right

00:45:12.460 over

00:45:12.800 and not

00:45:13.580 only that

00:45:14.080 you will

00:45:14.760 then

00:45:15.060 be able

00:45:15.800 to

00:45:15.980 change

00:45:16.780 the way

00:45:17.680 biological

00:45:18.500 women

00:45:18.960 think about

00:45:19.940 themselves

00:45:20.520 refer to

00:45:21.240 themselves

00:45:21.740 and some

00:45:22.900 of the

00:45:23.220 things that

00:45:23.660 make them

00:45:24.100 extraordinary

00:45:24.780 like

00:45:25.400 childbearing

00:45:26.300 like

00:45:26.640 breastfeeding

00:45:27.300 you know

00:45:27.760 the bond

00:45:28.340 between

00:45:28.540 mother and

00:45:28.860 child

00:45:29.060 and so

00:45:29.380 on

00:45:29.540 it's

00:45:30.460 insane

00:45:30.960 and unless

00:45:31.840 we

00:45:32.200 stand up

00:45:33.180 and push

00:45:34.100 back against

00:45:34.880 this nonsense

00:45:35.780 we're going

00:45:36.960 to lose

00:45:37.500 this war

00:45:38.140 I don't care

00:45:39.020 how many times

00:45:39.580 they go after

00:45:40.040 the JK Rowling's

00:45:41.000 of the world

00:45:41.480 and dox her

00:45:42.200 she's been

00:45:42.860 incredibly brave

00:45:43.620 it could happen

00:45:44.520 to you

00:45:44.740 it could happen

00:45:45.080 to me

00:45:45.400 okay

00:45:46.460 you know

00:45:47.080 that's fine

00:45:47.620 because I think

00:45:48.200 they're exploiting

00:45:49.300 people's natural

00:45:50.540 and admirable

00:45:51.940 instinct for

00:45:52.980 tolerance

00:45:53.640 to take

00:45:55.140 advantage of it

00:45:55.820 to a dark

00:45:56.420 and dangerous

00:45:56.900 place

00:45:57.300 and we don't

00:45:57.800 have to sit

00:45:58.280 back and take

00:45:58.960 it

00:45:59.140 all right

00:45:59.500 I stole the

00:45:59.920 final word

00:46:00.340 on that

00:46:00.700 more with

00:46:01.280 Charles coming

00:46:01.760 after this

00:46:02.360 quick break

00:46:03.220 and don't

00:46:03.940 forget that

00:46:04.500 you can find

00:46:04.940 the Megan

00:46:05.280 Kelly show

00:46:05.740 live on

00:46:06.240 Sirius XM

00:46:06.800 Triumph

00:46:07.360 Channel 111

00:46:08.160 every weekday

00:46:09.160 at noon east

00:46:09.940 the full video

00:46:10.680 show and clips

00:46:11.460 by subscribing

00:46:12.500 to our

00:46:12.880 YouTube channel

00:46:14.140 check it out

00:46:14.620 youtube.com

00:46:15.300 slash

00:46:15.640 Megan Kelly

00:46:16.620 there you'll

00:46:17.560 find an

00:46:17.820 interesting

00:46:18.060 monologue

00:46:18.440 from Friday

00:46:18.920 on Jussie

00:46:19.700 Smollett

00:46:20.260 if you prefer

00:46:21.400 an audio

00:46:21.860 podcast

00:46:22.240 you can

00:46:22.660 subscribe

00:46:23.000 and download

00:46:23.500 on Apple

00:46:24.000 Spotify

00:46:24.380 Pandora

00:46:24.760 Stitcher

00:46:25.080 or wherever

00:46:25.560 you get

00:46:25.820 your podcast

00:46:26.260 for free

00:46:27.500 and there

00:46:28.300 you can find

00:46:28.700 our full

00:46:29.020 archives

00:46:29.440 including

00:46:29.960 well more

00:46:30.820 than 220

00:46:31.440 shows

00:46:31.820 but also

00:46:32.500 including our

00:46:32.960 great

00:46:33.240 transgender

00:46:33.780 athletes

00:46:34.420 debate

00:46:34.800 with the

00:46:35.200 runners

00:46:35.580 in

00:46:35.820 Connecticut

00:46:36.220 who'd been

00:46:37.460 losing to a

00:46:38.520 transgender

00:46:39.000 athlete

00:46:39.540 and a

00:46:40.040 transgender

00:46:40.540 athlete

00:46:40.960 herself

00:46:41.480 who argued

00:46:42.580 the other

00:46:43.120 love that

00:46:44.180 that's episode

00:46:44.700 101

00:46:45.120 if you want

00:46:45.520 to check

00:46:45.760 it out

00:46:46.000 we'll be

00:46:46.620 right back

00:46:46.960 Charles I know

00:46:54.420 that you're

00:46:54.680 living a very

00:46:55.200 busy life

00:46:55.920 and you don't

00:46:56.620 get to listen

00:46:57.060 to the show

00:46:57.400 every day

00:46:57.760 but my

00:46:58.600 audience knows

00:46:59.300 what a huge

00:46:59.760 fan I am

00:47:00.520 of yours

00:47:00.960 because I'm

00:47:01.580 quoting you

00:47:02.100 all the time

00:47:02.740 even when

00:47:03.120 you're not

00:47:03.380 here

00:47:03.700 the other

00:47:04.420 day Abby

00:47:04.860 and I

00:47:05.080 were laughing

00:47:05.500 my assistant

00:47:06.000 because we

00:47:06.620 realized that

00:47:07.080 you and she

00:47:07.600 are the same

00:47:08.180 age

00:47:08.620 and you think

00:47:09.900 I feel so

00:47:11.000 old

00:47:11.420 I'm like

00:47:12.040 how am I

00:47:12.380 ever going

00:47:12.740 to come

00:47:13.080 close to

00:47:13.520 acquiring

00:47:13.900 the amount

00:47:14.240 of wisdom

00:47:14.680 Charles C.W.

00:47:15.500 Cook has

00:47:15.920 when I've

00:47:16.620 already missed

00:47:17.300 the first

00:47:17.700 35 years

00:47:18.420 of intense

00:47:19.240 reading and

00:47:19.780 education he's

00:47:20.520 had

00:47:20.800 I'm lost

00:47:22.080 but then I

00:47:23.780 get the happy

00:47:24.360 news that

00:47:24.980 I may not

00:47:26.220 be entirely

00:47:26.760 lost because

00:47:27.500 you're willing

00:47:28.160 to share it

00:47:29.020 not just as you

00:47:30.180 do at National

00:47:30.780 Review every day

00:47:31.500 and on the

00:47:32.000 editors podcast

00:47:32.720 and on the

00:47:33.340 Mad Dogs

00:47:33.740 and Englishmen

00:47:34.280 podcast but

00:47:35.740 through something

00:47:36.680 called the

00:47:37.540 chapter app

00:47:38.800 where you

00:47:39.720 are going

00:47:40.200 to start

00:47:40.940 with the

00:47:41.640 second amendment

00:47:42.300 I gather

00:47:42.860 and teach us

00:47:44.080 what you know

00:47:45.120 can you

00:47:45.460 what is this

00:47:46.180 thing

00:47:46.420 yeah so this

00:47:47.120 is a startup

00:47:48.060 they approached

00:47:49.160 me and some

00:47:51.540 other writers

00:47:52.340 most of whom

00:47:53.000 are on the

00:47:53.640 left and

00:47:54.880 asked if I

00:47:56.520 would teach

00:47:56.920 a four-week

00:47:57.700 course on

00:47:58.800 something

00:47:59.500 chapter describes

00:48:01.200 its system

00:48:03.060 as like a

00:48:03.560 book club

00:48:04.000 but more fun

00:48:04.820 and that's how

00:48:06.020 the website

00:48:06.840 is set up

00:48:07.660 the topic

00:48:08.880 I chose

00:48:09.400 was the

00:48:09.860 history of

00:48:10.140 the second

00:48:10.440 amendment

00:48:10.760 which is

00:48:11.120 something

00:48:11.340 I've written

00:48:12.240 about a

00:48:12.560 great deal

00:48:12.940 since I

00:48:13.340 moved to

00:48:13.740 the US

00:48:14.200 but also

00:48:14.640 I wrote

00:48:14.920 my thesis

00:48:15.520 on this

00:48:16.060 when I

00:48:16.840 was at

00:48:17.080 Oxford

00:48:17.420 and I

00:48:19.480 thought it

00:48:19.700 would be a

00:48:19.840 good topic

00:48:20.180 so I'm

00:48:20.760 going to

00:48:21.020 do that

00:48:21.460 starting

00:48:21.960 next year

00:48:22.800 on January

00:48:23.460 24th

00:48:24.980 the course

00:48:26.240 will be

00:48:26.460 four weeks

00:48:27.200 it will

00:48:28.580 go from

00:48:29.080 the colonial

00:48:29.620 era

00:48:30.160 all the way

00:48:31.180 through

00:48:31.520 the revolution

00:48:32.640 the civil

00:48:33.160 war

00:48:33.420 Jim Crow

00:48:33.960 and then to

00:48:34.860 modern

00:48:35.440 jurisprudence

00:48:36.480 tracking the

00:48:37.680 right to

00:48:38.300 bear arms

00:48:39.000 this had

00:48:39.340 existed in

00:48:40.080 England

00:48:40.460 was brought

00:48:41.380 to the

00:48:42.120 new world

00:48:42.640 and was

00:48:43.100 then codified

00:48:43.780 into American

00:48:44.780 law

00:48:45.120 and this

00:48:47.140 will all be

00:48:47.440 done online

00:48:47.920 it will be

00:48:48.260 done what

00:48:48.500 they call

00:48:48.780 asynchronously

00:48:49.740 and that

00:48:50.060 means there

00:48:51.060 won't be a

00:48:51.440 set time

00:48:51.920 where I'll

00:48:52.240 give lectures

00:48:52.740 or anything

00:48:53.160 like that

00:48:53.720 it's all

00:48:54.260 done through

00:48:54.880 the website

00:48:56.120 and so I'll

00:48:57.420 give out

00:48:57.840 reading and

00:48:58.580 videos and

00:48:59.280 the podcast

00:49:00.140 and original

00:49:00.580 source material

00:49:01.300 with notes

00:49:02.220 instructions

00:49:02.700 and then

00:49:03.900 there'll be

00:49:04.220 a community

00:49:04.760 forum and

00:49:05.720 a Q&A

00:49:06.360 with me

00:49:06.920 that you

00:49:07.240 can dip

00:49:07.620 into at

00:49:08.080 any time

00:49:08.540 so I mean

00:49:08.980 if you're

00:49:09.660 busy during

00:49:10.160 the day

00:49:11.380 you can do

00:49:11.960 it in the

00:49:12.340 evening or

00:49:13.020 at the

00:49:13.600 weekend

00:49:13.960 as I say

00:49:15.860 it starts

00:49:16.220 on January

00:49:16.740 24th

00:49:17.360 I'm pretty

00:49:17.680 excited about

00:49:18.360 it

00:49:18.700 and you can

00:49:19.580 sign up

00:49:20.040 over at

00:49:20.600 chapter

00:49:20.840 probably the

00:49:21.480 best thing

00:49:22.080 to do

00:49:23.220 is go to

00:49:23.980 my website

00:49:24.560 which is

00:49:25.020 charlescwcook.com

00:49:27.820 and there's a

00:49:29.300 link on there

00:49:29.940 if you're

00:49:30.380 interested in

00:49:30.840 that and

00:49:31.580 hopefully I'll

00:49:32.400 see you next

00:49:32.780 year

00:49:33.020 so this is a

00:49:34.120 great way to

00:49:34.560 become a

00:49:34.940 university

00:49:35.340 professor

00:49:35.860 without actually

00:49:36.840 having to

00:49:37.280 deal directly

00:49:37.900 with the

00:49:38.240 students and

00:49:38.820 the nonsense

00:49:39.660 on campus

00:49:40.640 or leave the

00:49:42.260 house even

00:49:42.880 I think I can

00:49:43.920 do it all

00:49:44.340 through my

00:49:45.400 computer

00:49:45.760 I will be

00:49:46.680 dealing with

00:49:47.820 people because

00:49:48.620 I'll be answering

00:49:49.380 questions on

00:49:50.260 the website

00:49:52.320 and also I

00:49:53.440 think by

00:49:53.940 video but

00:49:54.780 it's not

00:49:55.440 as you say

00:49:56.620 it's not that

00:49:57.280 I'm going to

00:49:57.600 be called into

00:49:58.300 the dean's

00:49:58.980 office and

00:49:59.520 told that I

00:49:59.980 said something

00:50:00.600 outrageous

00:50:01.360 in class

00:50:02.100 and I've

00:50:02.400 been reported

00:50:02.940 for at least

00:50:03.480 I hope not

00:50:03.960 that will be

00:50:04.760 a unique

00:50:05.180 experience in

00:50:06.280 dealing with

00:50:06.760 quote unquote

00:50:07.780 college students

00:50:08.580 that I love

00:50:09.340 the idea I

00:50:10.040 hope you take

00:50:10.600 on many more

00:50:11.100 subjects after

00:50:11.700 this one

00:50:12.160 love learning

00:50:13.200 from you on

00:50:13.700 this show

00:50:14.080 and on yours

00:50:14.740 Charles thank

00:50:15.240 you for being

00:50:15.620 here

00:50:15.900 thank you so

00:50:17.300 much for

00:50:17.600 having me it

00:50:18.000 was a pleasure

00:50:18.440 coming up

00:50:19.760 David Wallace

00:50:20.780 Wells of New

00:50:21.540 York magazines

00:50:22.160 joins me to

00:50:23.000 talk about some

00:50:23.700 COVID reality

00:50:24.520 including the

00:50:25.320 ruling we just

00:50:26.180 got from the

00:50:27.240 US Supreme

00:50:27.800 Court on

00:50:28.400 mandates

00:50:28.940 don't go

00:50:29.420 away

00:50:29.620 David Wallace

00:50:35.680 Wells is editor

00:50:36.500 at large for

00:50:37.320 New York

00:50:37.580 magazine and

00:50:38.280 author of

00:50:38.920 The Uninhabitable

00:50:40.640 Earth and he

00:50:41.920 joins me now

00:50:42.640 David such a

00:50:43.360 pleasure thank you

00:50:43.840 for coming on

00:50:44.460 no really the

00:50:45.120 pleasure is mine

00:50:45.600 great to talk to

00:50:46.180 you so you

00:50:47.360 have been

00:50:48.000 somebody who I

00:50:48.960 just said this to

00:50:50.160 David Leonhardt but

00:50:50.860 it's true of you

00:50:51.420 too you're sort of

00:50:52.100 of the left

00:50:52.800 you've been

00:50:53.580 speaking you've

00:50:55.000 been a voice of

00:50:55.580 reason when it

00:50:56.160 comes to COVID

00:50:57.080 policy I

00:50:57.720 think and

00:50:58.580 therefore I

00:50:59.060 see you as

00:50:59.380 very powerful

00:51:00.100 you know like I

00:51:00.960 think people on

00:51:02.400 the left I

00:51:03.020 really hope they

00:51:03.680 listen to you

00:51:04.500 because you've

00:51:05.940 been like a

00:51:06.640 beacon of light

00:51:07.680 in the darkness

00:51:08.480 saying wait a

00:51:10.140 minute what are

00:51:10.740 we doing like

00:51:11.320 what wait why

00:51:12.520 are we doing this

00:51:13.100 to children and

00:51:13.700 in particular the

00:51:14.440 children thing

00:51:15.080 drives me nuts

00:51:16.720 it was an

00:51:17.540 article that you

00:51:18.300 had in July

00:51:19.580 that really got

00:51:20.580 my attention

00:51:21.060 called the kids

00:51:21.740 are all right

00:51:22.340 that was how

00:51:22.800 it's titled

00:51:23.780 why now is the

00:51:24.540 time to rethink

00:51:25.160 COVID safety

00:51:25.840 protocols for

00:51:26.500 children and

00:51:27.780 talked about how

00:51:28.700 the kids are

00:51:29.720 not at risk

00:51:30.560 themselves and

00:51:31.900 never were but

00:51:34.100 it is one of the

00:51:35.200 lies we continue

00:51:36.140 to tell as we

00:51:37.220 keep them masked

00:51:37.980 all day and now

00:51:38.880 require vaccines of

00:51:40.120 all of them

00:51:40.900 including five-year-olds

00:51:42.080 because we can't

00:51:43.740 quote get back to

00:51:44.500 normal until we

00:51:45.980 do these things

00:51:46.920 do you do you

00:51:48.480 feel the same as

00:51:49.160 you did in July

00:51:49.760 well the age

00:51:50.680 skew of the

00:51:51.140 disease hasn't

00:51:51.900 changed and that's

00:51:52.880 not to say that

00:51:53.800 kids are at

00:51:54.560 absolutely no

00:51:55.640 risk it's just

00:51:56.500 that compared to

00:51:57.140 the population

00:51:57.720 as a whole

00:51:58.480 they face a

00:51:59.780 vanishingly small

00:52:00.600 chance of severe

00:52:01.420 illness and really

00:52:02.600 mortality so you

00:52:04.020 know we know all

00:52:04.700 of us following the

00:52:05.880 news even casually

00:52:06.880 that old people are

00:52:08.020 more at risk and

00:52:08.680 young people are

00:52:09.200 less at risk but I

00:52:10.300 think very few

00:52:10.840 Americans even now

00:52:11.860 almost two years

00:52:12.540 into the pandemic

00:52:13.180 really appreciate

00:52:14.120 just how dramatic

00:52:15.600 that age skew is

00:52:16.680 which is you know

00:52:17.320 someone in their

00:52:17.920 80s faces a

00:52:19.280 mortality risk from

00:52:20.120 COVID 10,000 times

00:52:22.320 the size of someone

00:52:23.300 who's age 10 and

00:52:25.060 even people who

00:52:25.860 are vaccinated you

00:52:26.840 know vaccination is

00:52:27.640 the equivalent of

00:52:28.500 maybe 25 years of

00:52:30.300 your age so people

00:52:31.960 who are you know

00:52:32.880 vaccinated 40 year

00:52:34.740 olds are still

00:52:35.380 considerably more at

00:52:36.840 risk than

00:52:37.260 unvaccinated 10

00:52:38.180 year olds personally

00:52:39.800 I actually I do think

00:52:40.860 the vaccinating case

00:52:41.600 is a good idea I

00:52:42.360 think we need to do

00:52:43.120 what we can to sort

00:52:43.720 of slow the spread

00:52:44.400 and I think the

00:52:44.840 risks are quite

00:52:45.960 small but I think

00:52:47.060 that when we think

00:52:47.740 about the sorts of

00:52:49.080 risks that our

00:52:49.640 children are facing

00:52:50.380 we should really

00:52:51.660 understand that

00:52:52.420 almost all of it

00:52:53.940 is is in our

00:52:54.860 heads and in total

00:52:56.080 in the American

00:52:56.920 pandemic we've got

00:52:58.000 something like 800

00:52:58.940 children which is to

00:52:59.960 say people under the

00:53:00.920 age of 18 and not

00:53:01.860 true children 800

00:53:03.260 people under the age

00:53:04.360 of 18 who've died

00:53:05.180 from COVID that's

00:53:06.220 not nothing each of

00:53:07.080 those deaths is a

00:53:07.880 tragedy but as a

00:53:09.020 country we're facing

00:53:09.840 800,000 deaths and

00:53:11.640 I think that gives

00:53:12.400 you just a sense of

00:53:13.260 you know the

00:53:14.640 relatively small risk

00:53:15.900 faced by by you

00:53:17.600 know all the kids

00:53:18.200 in our lives

00:53:19.200 man now we of

00:53:20.540 course some of

00:53:21.740 those people as

00:53:22.480 with the grown-ups

00:53:23.220 are I think

00:53:24.900 grown-ups is a

00:53:25.460 term only parents

00:53:26.280 use I don't know

00:53:26.960 but some of those

00:53:29.020 kids died with

00:53:30.240 COVID as opposed

00:53:31.140 to from COVID

00:53:32.200 it's been one of

00:53:32.780 the frustrations in

00:53:33.600 the reporting to

00:53:34.340 try to discern

00:53:35.500 those two things

00:53:36.540 David Zweig has

00:53:37.720 been making that

00:53:38.260 point you know

00:53:38.620 like it's an

00:53:38.980 important thing to

00:53:39.540 know with COVID

00:53:40.540 versus of COVID

00:53:41.520 matters in the

00:53:42.560 numbers but we

00:53:43.080 haven't been able to

00:53:43.600 get it straight

00:53:44.140 in your piece you

00:53:45.400 talked about an

00:53:46.060 eye-opening report

00:53:47.060 in Nature

00:53:48.580 magazine looking

00:53:50.800 at 90,000 in

00:53:52.340 school pupils

00:53:53.440 learning in North

00:53:54.540 Carolina last fall

00:53:55.880 researchers would

00:53:57.120 have expected based

00:53:57.900 on local

00:53:58.340 transmission rates

00:53:59.200 about 900 cases

00:54:00.720 of COVID there

00:54:01.900 were as it turned

00:54:02.860 out only 32

00:54:04.400 again quoting from

00:54:05.360 your article in

00:54:06.360 another study you

00:54:07.100 write among 20,000

00:54:08.460 Nebraska students

00:54:09.240 attending school all

00:54:10.080 year there were in

00:54:11.520 total two cases

00:54:13.480 so what does that

00:54:15.900 tell us?

00:54:16.460 well you know

00:54:18.460 there are other

00:54:18.820 cases showing some

00:54:20.240 higher risk of

00:54:20.860 transmission in

00:54:21.440 school than those

00:54:22.080 but in general I

00:54:23.260 think that our

00:54:23.620 policies have been

00:54:24.560 excessive here that

00:54:26.240 you know especially

00:54:27.060 the very beginning of

00:54:28.120 the of the pandemic

00:54:28.920 in the spring of

00:54:29.940 2020 when we knew

00:54:31.420 not all that much

00:54:32.440 about spread dynamics

00:54:33.340 when we knew not

00:54:34.020 all that much about

00:54:34.880 the sort of mortality

00:54:36.200 risks at play and

00:54:37.080 that risk for severe

00:54:37.840 illness I think it

00:54:38.880 was perfectly sensible

00:54:39.720 to be quite cautious

00:54:41.000 and to operate from

00:54:42.320 the precautionary

00:54:43.260 principle at least as

00:54:45.240 until we really got a

00:54:46.620 handle on on the

00:54:48.260 disease and how it

00:54:49.000 was moving through

00:54:49.640 the population I

00:54:51.040 think at that point

00:54:51.760 it was not you know

00:54:53.040 a bad idea it was

00:54:53.760 not crazy to close

00:54:54.860 schools or to lock

00:54:56.920 down in general but

00:54:58.440 especially as we got

00:55:00.100 to the fall of that

00:55:00.980 year 2020 which is

00:55:02.560 now more than a year

00:55:03.320 ago I think by that

00:55:05.660 point we knew well

00:55:06.860 that kids were not

00:55:07.900 just much less at risk

00:55:09.000 of the of severe

00:55:10.080 illness but also much

00:55:11.760 less likely to

00:55:12.480 transmit not zero

00:55:13.780 you know that that

00:55:15.200 that risk was not

00:55:15.920 zero that could still

00:55:16.700 transmit that could

00:55:17.360 get still get

00:55:18.440 infected but the risk

00:55:19.260 was much lower and

00:55:20.540 probably if we had

00:55:21.400 been operating

00:55:22.060 sensibly and really

00:55:23.380 thinking clear headedly

00:55:24.400 about the issues we

00:55:25.680 would have done much

00:55:26.800 more to make sure

00:55:27.440 that all schools were

00:55:28.580 open for in-person

00:55:29.380 learning by last

00:55:30.980 fall and you know

00:55:33.060 without getting caught

00:55:34.340 up in all of the

00:55:35.100 quarantine and you

00:55:36.440 know classroom closures

00:55:38.380 that have sort of

00:55:40.440 afflicted even those

00:55:41.220 schools that have

00:55:41.800 tried that did try

00:55:42.540 to be open last

00:55:43.500 year they've done

00:55:44.360 so much damage

00:55:45.200 we've imposed a real

00:55:47.280 cost on a generation

00:55:48.520 of kids we don't

00:55:50.220 know exactly what

00:55:50.920 that will look like

00:55:51.560 or what its impact

00:55:52.560 will be ultimately

00:55:53.160 on their lives but

00:55:53.960 most of the social

00:55:54.660 science suggests it

00:55:56.160 will be meaningful and

00:55:57.020 it'll be especially

00:55:57.640 dramatic in the kids

00:55:59.580 with least advantage

00:56:00.600 you know poor kids

00:56:02.680 minority kids who

00:56:03.540 who are you know

00:56:05.340 less advantaged in

00:56:06.700 their home lives

00:56:07.680 well you know I was

00:56:08.520 just making this

00:56:08.980 point the other day

00:56:09.560 I'm curious what you

00:56:10.240 think normally you

00:56:12.620 know people on the

00:56:13.500 political left would

00:56:14.440 be jumping up and

00:56:15.180 down if you saw that

00:56:15.860 kind of a disparity

00:56:16.660 between rich kids kids

00:56:18.800 of privilege who are

00:56:20.180 able to work around

00:56:21.140 these restrictions and

00:56:22.160 lockdowns and

00:56:22.860 quarantines and poor

00:56:24.660 kids who tend to be

00:56:26.040 minority kids black

00:56:27.780 kids Hispanic kids in

00:56:28.880 the inner city they're

00:56:29.900 not getting anywhere

00:56:30.580 near the exposure to

00:56:32.020 information and

00:56:32.660 education that those

00:56:34.260 with with means are

00:56:35.520 normally that would be

00:56:36.840 a big thing highlighted

00:56:37.880 by the left but I was

00:56:39.180 saying the other day

00:56:39.760 it almost seems like

00:56:40.780 the covid fear

00:56:41.680 trumps everything it

00:56:43.020 trumps worries about

00:56:44.680 race socioeconomics

00:56:46.800 even politics I don't

00:56:50.040 know though maybe

00:56:50.700 politics will change it

00:56:52.200 David Leonhardt was

00:56:53.060 saying he does think if

00:56:54.640 democrats start losing

00:56:55.640 elections that'll get

00:56:57.020 their attention on

00:56:57.720 covid policy but what

00:56:59.340 do what do you think

00:57:00.140 because it is surprising

00:57:01.180 to see them not paying

00:57:02.040 more attention to those

00:57:03.040 disparities well yes it's

00:57:05.920 been a fascinating saga

00:57:07.560 that's a watch unfold

00:57:08.220 generally I think our

00:57:09.220 our tribal partisan

00:57:10.820 nature has colored a

00:57:12.020 huge amount of the

00:57:12.760 way that all Americans

00:57:13.600 see this pandemic and

00:57:16.180 you know I think that's

00:57:17.320 really unfortunate it's

00:57:18.160 meant some some really

00:57:19.080 bad policy in the end

00:57:20.580 the way I see it is

00:57:22.340 that actually among the

00:57:23.540 sort of professional

00:57:24.940 class left you know the

00:57:26.900 the well-educated well

00:57:29.300 off sort of caricature you

00:57:31.800 know bankers lawyers that

00:57:34.460 sort of person has

00:57:35.760 actually been quite eager

00:57:36.760 to see schools reopen for

00:57:39.400 about a year now it's

00:57:41.600 actually the parents who

00:57:43.800 are much less well-off who

00:57:45.200 last year were much less

00:57:47.100 open to that much more

00:57:48.200 more scared now that may

00:57:49.920 be a fault of the public

00:57:51.020 health messaging it may be

00:57:52.760 because we haven't been

00:57:54.040 clear enough in signaling

00:57:55.920 the relative low risk faced

00:57:57.340 by children and so it's

00:57:58.880 only those people who are

00:57:59.760 really really paying

00:58:00.400 attention to the news who

00:58:01.480 understand that well but I

00:58:03.480 think there are a lot of

00:58:03.980 other dynamics as well

00:58:05.120 it's of course also the

00:58:06.920 less well-off the less

00:58:07.720 well-educated who have

00:58:08.980 been so resistant to

00:58:10.080 vaccination and I think

00:58:11.500 that there's you know

00:58:12.240 there's a sort of a

00:58:12.960 similar dynamic there in

00:58:15.460 general you know I think

00:58:16.480 the fact that Donald

00:58:17.400 Trump was president when

00:58:18.260 this pandemic started

00:58:19.160 meant that much of our

00:58:20.920 understanding of public

00:58:22.360 policy was filtered

00:58:23.760 through through how we

00:58:25.160 felt about him and that

00:58:27.100 meant that many liberals

00:58:28.000 in 2020 felt that we had

00:58:30.060 to do more at all costs

00:58:31.320 because he was doing so

00:58:32.600 little and I do think

00:58:33.800 that he sort of really

00:58:34.940 failed there but I also

00:58:36.940 think that the failure is

00:58:37.860 much larger than Donald

00:58:39.020 Trump when you look at

00:58:39.680 all of our peer countries

00:58:41.000 around the world the U.S.

00:58:42.580 did probably less well

00:58:43.980 than we would have

00:58:44.520 expected but we're not in

00:58:45.860 a category worse than

00:58:47.020 most of the rich countries

00:58:48.200 of Europe in fact we're

00:58:49.180 right in the ballpark of

00:58:50.300 them and I think that

00:58:51.840 tells you that this is a

00:58:53.020 really hard challenge

00:58:54.060 it's really hard to

00:58:55.160 govern through all of

00:58:55.840 this it's not always just

00:58:57.860 a matter of doing more

00:58:58.840 or doing less it's not

00:58:59.680 just a matter of believing

00:59:00.520 in science or hitting the

00:59:01.720 science button and I

00:59:02.940 think the experience of

00:59:03.820 the of the Biden year so

00:59:04.860 far shows us exactly that

00:59:06.740 I think by the end of

00:59:07.460 this year almost certainly

00:59:08.880 there will be a more

00:59:10.140 American deaths on Joe

00:59:11.580 Biden's first year as

00:59:12.400 president and then there

00:59:13.640 were under Donald on

00:59:14.920 Donald Trump's last year

00:59:16.080 now that's not to say

00:59:18.140 that Biden is more at

00:59:19.180 fault that Trump was he

00:59:20.100 was handed up a worse

00:59:21.020 hand by the time he took

00:59:22.380 office the disease was

00:59:24.120 already you know all

00:59:25.720 spread through the

00:59:26.220 population there was very

00:59:27.100 little chance of truly

00:59:28.080 suppressing a vaccine

00:59:29.140 though too you also had

00:59:30.660 the vaccines and you

00:59:32.180 know it's hard to know

00:59:32.820 exactly how much to

00:59:34.320 credit or discredit him

00:59:35.880 for our sort of you

00:59:38.320 know not not totally

00:59:41.020 successful vaccine rollout

00:59:42.260 but I think again that's

00:59:43.640 just a sign that many of

00:59:44.740 these things are beyond

00:59:45.960 direct political control

00:59:47.860 and that we've sort of

00:59:48.940 failed as I think he's

00:59:50.920 paying a price for having

00:59:51.880 said he would shut down

00:59:52.980 the virus he didn't need

00:59:54.000 to say that he didn't need

00:59:55.180 to guarantee that you

00:59:56.200 know when he was running

00:59:57.540 and now people are

00:59:58.380 looking at yet another

00:59:59.780 variant and more

01:00:00.900 possible lockdowns and

01:00:02.200 renewal of the mask

01:00:03.400 mandates and thinking

01:00:04.580 okay this doesn't feel

01:00:05.600 shut down the latest

01:00:07.280 ABC Ipsos poll shows

01:00:08.740 Biden's approval rating

01:00:10.040 on COVID response it's

01:00:12.140 the highest of his

01:00:13.280 approval ratings in other

01:00:14.540 words inflation he has a

01:00:16.240 28 percent approval on

01:00:17.620 dealing with that gun

01:00:18.460 violence 32 percent crime

01:00:20.240 36 percent COVID

01:00:21.880 response he gets a 53

01:00:23.000 percent approval but

01:00:23.960 that's down from 72

01:00:25.120 percent in March because

01:00:26.860 I think just people have

01:00:27.820 had it and they're going

01:00:28.700 to blame whoever's in

01:00:29.580 power and and given his

01:00:31.560 promise but you you used

01:00:33.420 a term just a second ago

01:00:34.380 that I really wanted to

01:00:35.220 ask you about because you

01:00:36.060 raised such a good point

01:00:37.500 that we haven't been

01:00:38.600 talking about fear

01:00:39.880 mongering okay the fear

01:00:41.480 mongering that we see from

01:00:42.500 the media and some of those

01:00:43.740 in charge it has genuinely

01:00:46.620 negative effects in

01:00:48.460 particular on kids for the

01:00:50.520 reasons you just pointed

01:00:51.280 out but also we're we're

01:00:53.400 forgetting the elderly and

01:00:56.220 how they they really do

01:00:59.620 get scared when you talk

01:01:01.380 about Omicron as the next

01:01:04.180 devil incarnate and

01:01:05.960 everything's got to shut

01:01:07.060 down because Omicron they

01:01:08.980 really are at risk they have

01:01:10.880 very high death numbers

01:01:12.500 alarmingly high and I can

01:01:15.100 speak to this personally just

01:01:16.140 from my mom who's 80 and my

01:01:17.860 husband Doug's mom who's 85

01:01:19.620 they live alone they get

01:01:21.960 scared and they're already

01:01:23.420 isolated it is irresponsible

01:01:25.820 to treat every variant or

01:01:27.580 every new tweak in the

01:01:29.280 covid narrative as

01:01:30.760 devastation awaiting

01:01:32.860 well I you know I think that

01:01:36.060 as you as you suggested I

01:01:37.760 think that people in your in

01:01:39.860 your parents in your in-law

01:01:40.800 situation have good reason to

01:01:42.900 be scared still the disease is

01:01:44.780 still circulating it's still

01:01:45.940 quite deadly and while

01:01:47.780 vaccination and other social

01:01:49.600 behaviors can protect the

01:01:50.840 elderly they can't protect

01:01:52.220 them perfectly we're still

01:01:53.680 seeing some relatively large

01:01:56.040 number of deaths among the

01:01:57.900 among the vaccinated most of

01:02:00.020 whom are old because as I

01:02:01.220 mentioned earlier vaccination

01:02:02.700 while it can reduce your risk

01:02:04.200 of mortality a factor of 10

01:02:06.960 or 12 that's really the

01:02:08.320 equivalent of just taking a

01:02:09.380 couple of decades off your

01:02:10.320 life so if your father-in-law is

01:02:12.120 85 and he's vaccinated fully

01:02:14.100 vaccinated he's still at risk as

01:02:16.500 at risk as an unvaccinated

01:02:18.120 60 year old was and we know

01:02:19.940 a year ago an unvaccinated

01:02:21.220 60 year old was quite scared

01:02:22.720 of the disease I think there's

01:02:24.840 there's good reason for those

01:02:25.880 people to be to be worried and

01:02:27.720 to take precaution the question

01:02:29.480 is why aren't we doing more

01:02:31.180 targeted protection of them why

01:02:33.900 did we why have we throughout

01:02:35.500 the pandemic talked about this

01:02:37.400 issue and this this challenge as

01:02:39.940 a universal and even sort of

01:02:41.320 uniform challenge that we needed

01:02:42.820 to do we needed to protect the

01:02:44.700 society as a whole in order to

01:02:46.660 protect our most vulnerable

01:02:47.760 rather than doing taking action

01:02:50.200 interventions that are much

01:02:52.320 more targeted to those who may

01:02:53.580 actually suffer I think that's

01:02:55.260 especially glaring now when we

01:02:58.960 have a large you know a large

01:03:00.600 chunk of the population it's not

01:03:01.960 perfect but about 60 percent of

01:03:03.820 the population is quote-unquote

01:03:05.940 fully vaccinated we we have an

01:03:08.700 opportunity to really you know

01:03:10.500 focus on the people who are who

01:03:11.940 are most at risk with a variety

01:03:14.160 of interventions and now

01:03:16.300 heading heading into facing down

01:03:17.560 Omicron with with a really short

01:03:19.580 timeline to do so I would like to

01:03:21.420 see public policy focus more on

01:03:23.200 those who are really likely likely

01:03:25.440 us to suffer most but we've taken

01:03:27.140 this sort of we're all in this

01:03:29.360 together approach all year and as I

01:03:31.500 mentioned earlier about school

01:03:32.440 closures I do think that there was

01:03:33.620 some wisdom in being so cautious

01:03:35.520 right at the start of the pandemic

01:03:36.920 yeah we didn't know what we were

01:03:37.960 dealing with understand that you

01:03:39.660 know there's you know a 25 year

01:03:41.540 old simply does not need the same

01:03:43.160 kind of public policy as an 85

01:03:44.500 year old and an approach that

01:03:47.000 treats them as equivalent is going

01:03:48.600 to alienate the young people and

01:03:50.240 also exhaust us without actually

01:03:51.860 offering nearly as much protection

01:03:53.420 to the truly vulnerable as we

01:03:55.060 could have and there seems to be a

01:03:56.920 head-in-the-sand mentality when it

01:03:58.360 comes to new information that we've

01:04:00.680 learned since March of my god I

01:04:03.340 can't even it's 2020 March of 2020

01:04:05.240 it's like that you lose time when it

01:04:07.340 comes to this pandemic like and the

01:04:10.420 New York Times had a piece on this

01:04:11.580 on December 11th the editorial board

01:04:13.000 came out with a piece saying we can

01:04:14.720 live better lives while being smart

01:04:16.240 about COVID one of the things they

01:04:17.660 pointed out was this is from their

01:04:20.180 piece do away with with COVID theater

01:04:22.640 the coronavirus is airborne and any

01:04:25.640 money spent on deep cleaning would be

01:04:28.000 better put toward improved building

01:04:30.480 ventilation they say these plastic

01:04:32.920 barriers can actually impede airflow and

01:04:35.260 exacerbate viral spread there was a

01:04:37.440 report just this week about the

01:04:38.560 teachers in Michigan who were saying

01:04:40.440 or maybe it was last week saying they

01:04:41.920 needed Fridays off because their

01:04:43.680 burnout you know and it's like most of

01:04:45.460 us parents are like get to work you

01:04:47.360 know like the kids are the ones who we

01:04:48.600 have to worry about not the teachers

01:04:49.620 but I understand it can be real and

01:04:52.140 part of the problem we looked into it

01:04:53.580 in Michigan is they have to still

01:04:56.420 clean all of the classrooms as if COVID

01:05:00.540 is still super easy you know we

01:05:02.500 believed at one point to pick up from a

01:05:04.520 desktop they do have these plexiglass

01:05:07.340 barriers we have that in our school our

01:05:09.180 sons can't speak to their little

01:05:10.660 buddies at school and during lunch

01:05:12.620 because they're all separated by

01:05:13.880 plexiglass you know how much did those

01:05:15.560 cost that those researchers could have

01:05:17.420 been directed someplace where it matters

01:05:20.080 so all of that plus I know you've been

01:05:22.540 talking about this the push to vaccinate

01:05:24.980 you know AOC was like I got my

01:05:26.920 vaccination she's like they're a 31 year

01:05:28.800 old very healthy woman fine it's fine

01:05:31.720 for her to get boosted but what about

01:05:33.520 the you know people in Africa where we

01:05:35.580 have a 10 percent vaccination rate from

01:05:37.540 which Omicron came and we just put our

01:05:41.240 heads in the sand didn't didn't hear the

01:05:42.740 news about plexiglass didn't hear the

01:05:44.060 news about the surfaces didn't hear the

01:05:45.820 news about Africa yeah I mean I think in

01:05:48.580 a lot of these cases we just have an

01:05:51.320 incredibly slow-moving policy bureaucracy

01:05:53.820 and so the things that we thought we

01:05:56.660 knew in March or April of 2020

01:05:58.700 essentially governed our approach for a

01:06:01.100 period of six or nine months and by the

01:06:02.680 time we had the opportunity to sort of

01:06:05.480 you know rethink a lot of those policies

01:06:07.680 a lot of people were just sort of

01:06:09.660 exhausted and were comfortable just

01:06:11.740 sticking with the status quo which is a

01:06:14.300 terrible recipe for response and as a

01:06:16.780 result we've seen you know a really

01:06:18.680 dramatic bad especially experience with

01:06:23.700 the Delta wave and I do think as we talk

01:06:25.960 about where you know we're heading we're

01:06:27.600 heading into an Omicron phase I do think

01:06:30.020 it's worth doing just some level setting

01:06:31.520 about how bad the Delta wave really has

01:06:34.140 been most people in my life in you know

01:06:37.460 relatively liberal relatively well-off New

01:06:39.640 York have been essentially acting as

01:06:41.960 though the pandemic is not totally gone

01:06:43.680 but more or less behind us over the last

01:06:45.560 few months but we've had basically a

01:06:48.360 thousand or more Americans dying every

01:06:50.000 single day now for a period of several

01:06:51.460 months and that's an annualized rate of

01:06:54.400 about 400,000 Americans which is more

01:06:56.840 people than died in 2020 September and

01:06:59.200 October of this year where the peak

01:07:01.100 Delta wave months they were aside from

01:07:04.080 the winter surge the worst two-month

01:07:05.660 period in the entire pandemic in terms of

01:07:07.980 deaths and that's with 60 percent of

01:07:10.000 the population vaccinated on top of all

01:07:12.260 that even though we have 60 percent of

01:07:15.020 the population vaccinated and probably

01:07:16.440 something like 80 percent of seniors

01:07:17.940 fully vaccinated although the CDC numbers

01:07:20.120 are not so reliable so it's a little

01:07:21.480 hard to tell even though we have that

01:07:23.840 many people vaccinated even though we

01:07:25.240 know those vaccines are effective

01:07:27.240 nevertheless the relationship of cases

01:07:29.940 to hospitalizations and deaths across

01:07:31.780 the country is unchanged from before

01:07:34.320 vaccinations which is to say the same

01:07:36.420 number of cases now as we would have

01:07:40.760 had last January or February has been

01:07:43.460 producing the same number of

01:07:44.580 hospitalizations and deaths and that's

01:07:46.760 I think in part because Delta is has

01:07:48.760 been a bit more severe it's also because

01:07:50.540 we just happen to have so many

01:07:51.680 vulnerable people but I think it's

01:07:53.320 really a sort of a mind-bending fact

01:07:55.480 for most people who are following this

01:07:56.900 closely even to know that at the

01:08:01.060 national level we have not reduced

01:08:02.900 mortality risk from the disease a single

01:08:06.440 case has the same mathematical

01:08:07.740 relationship now to a hospitalization

01:08:10.120 and a death as it did before mass

01:08:12.400 vaccination and that means that there

01:08:14.020 is still quite a lot of suffering and

01:08:16.400 dying going on today that many Americans

01:08:18.760 are just turning away from out of

01:08:20.200 exhaustion which is an understandable

01:08:21.600 reaction yeah yeah but it's also a

01:08:24.020 tragedy and a sort of a moral

01:08:25.700 indictment of of us that we prefer to

01:08:28.400 ignore a thousand Americans dying a day

01:08:30.600 rather than treating it like we did a

01:08:32.280 year or so ago when it was considered

01:08:33.780 really the front and center you know

01:08:36.340 fact of our lives I would say you know

01:08:39.380 the part of the problem is this refusal

01:08:42.420 to acknowledge new realities and and like

01:08:45.920 for me I'm so sick of sending my eight

01:08:49.160 year old off to school wearing a mask

01:08:50.440 all day I would do anything to get the

01:08:51.900 masks off my kids I really would I would

01:08:53.640 do anything I will vaccinate them

01:08:55.420 tomorrow I will do whatever you but I

01:08:57.360 can't because the CDC and my schools

01:08:59.640 are both saying go ahead and vaccinate

01:09:00.820 your children and they'll have to wear

01:09:02.160 the mask and there's no off-ramp they

01:09:04.040 may have to wear them forever and it's

01:09:05.300 like you know it's just so frustrating

01:09:08.540 and then the other thing that's very

01:09:09.660 frustrating is natural immunity and the

01:09:11.780 refusal to acknowledge you know that

01:09:14.160 it does have preventative effects of

01:09:17.240 getting COVID again and then we we

01:09:19.720 understood that during the height of the

01:09:21.400 pandemic when we let nurses and doctors

01:09:23.220 who had had COVID have access to very

01:09:25.380 vulnerable patients understanding that

01:09:27.240 they were not going to get it you know

01:09:29.640 their nurses and doctors weren't going

01:09:30.720 to get it again but I mean it we're in a

01:09:32.360 situation now in New York City thanks to

01:09:33.820 de Blasio's new order which I'm sure you

01:09:35.740 saw as a New Yorker where like the kids

01:09:38.020 can't come into New York they can't they

01:09:39.520 can't go to the restaurants or the

01:09:40.880 arenas or so on unless they've been

01:09:43.060 vaccinated if you're 5 to 11 well what

01:09:45.060 if your five-year-old has just had

01:09:46.240 COVID what if your five-year-old had

01:09:47.860 COVID in November why on earth would

01:09:50.320 you say he can't go into a restaurant in

01:09:52.360 New York City right like it makes no

01:09:54.500 sense and even for adults who have had

01:09:57.700 COVID especially more recently there's no

01:10:00.720 acknowledgement like there is in

01:10:01.840 Europe that that does provide you with

01:10:04.300 immunity and the Israel study says 27

01:10:06.360 times better immunity than the vaccine

01:10:08.060 so it makes people resistant to some of

01:10:11.480 these other pushes on vaccines and so

01:10:13.560 on yeah I'm you know I think the data on

01:10:16.640 the relative strength of the protection

01:10:18.600 is sort of all over the map the Israel

01:10:20.160 study you mentioned is the one that

01:10:21.920 suggested the strongest protection but

01:10:23.480 there are other ones that suggest that

01:10:24.780 vaccines are a little stronger in any

01:10:26.780 event we know that prior infection

01:10:28.360 provides some amounts of protection

01:10:29.740 it's not you know it's probably roughly in

01:10:32.440 the ballpark of vaccination but you know

01:10:34.840 that as I say the data is a little bit

01:10:36.480 messy on that I think it's you know

01:10:39.040 especially as we were looking at new

01:10:40.640 data on Omicron it's sort of you know

01:10:43.700 what's what that's telling us is that

01:10:45.160 neither two-dose vaccine protection or

01:10:49.360 immunity from prior exposure is sufficient

01:10:52.260 to protect against infection against

01:10:55.040 Omicron and probably we want to have at

01:10:57.920 least a three-dose vaccination program or

01:11:00.220 a combination of prior infection and

01:11:03.620 vaccination to really protect us against

01:11:07.440 this new variant now in the past I think

01:11:10.560 you're right that we've been sort of

01:11:13.100 reluctant I think essentially for

01:11:14.660 bureaucratic reasons it's just sort of

01:11:16.060 easier to track vaccinations and ask for

01:11:18.000 people's vaccination cards than it is to

01:11:20.040 ask for their you know positive positive

01:11:22.860 COVID test from a few months ago or their

01:11:25.000 antibody test or however you'd want to

01:11:26.540 check it is just sort of easier and it

01:11:28.280 also helps in the effort to promote

01:11:30.220 vaccination which I think is at the

01:11:31.960 forefront of most public health

01:11:34.060 officials minds at the moment but

01:11:36.060 heading into Omicron I think it is

01:11:37.340 actually useful to say as well

01:11:40.220 protected as you may have felt from your

01:11:41.660 two doses or your prior infection two

01:11:43.800 months ago probably you want to do a

01:11:45.740 little bit more get it get a booster

01:11:47.400 shot get vaccinated if you aren't

01:11:49.260 already and ideally accumulate as much

01:11:52.800 protection as you can possibly muster

01:11:54.680 against this new variant because it is so

01:11:56.900 infectious so transmissible there does

01:11:59.820 seem to be some significant amount of

01:12:01.300 immune escape there are also indications

01:12:02.880 that it's less severe although that's

01:12:04.900 sort of tentative but that's a big point

01:12:07.200 that's a big point that's why a lot of

01:12:08.760 people who are vaccine hesitant right for

01:12:11.340 whatever reason they don't want to get a

01:12:14.060 booster and they don't want to get the

01:12:15.180 vaccine in response to Omicron because

01:12:16.620 they're like if I'm going to get this

01:12:17.620 anyway which we're all going to wind up

01:12:19.080 getting it so it's so contagious why

01:12:22.160 don't I just get this version because this

01:12:24.280 one seems less deadly that is what their

01:12:26.340 authorities are saying this one seems less

01:12:28.080 deadly than Delta for example and it's

01:12:31.660 incredibly contagious even to people who

01:12:33.660 have been vaxxed and boosted even boosted

01:12:36.100 so I can see the calculation of all right

01:12:39.200 if I got to get one I'll get this one

01:12:40.700 well we don't know what protection it

01:12:44.000 will offer against future variants so

01:12:45.680 that's a little bit of a wild card we if

01:12:47.720 Omicron can reinfect you if you just had

01:12:50.060 Delta then possibly the next variant will

01:12:52.160 will be able to reinfect you even if you

01:12:53.900 had Omicron and it might be deadlier but

01:12:56.820 beyond that at the population level these

01:12:59.480 dynamics play out in sort of

01:13:01.020 counterintuitive ways which is to say if

01:13:03.240 Omicron is you know three four or five

01:13:06.360 times as infectious as Delta which is what

01:13:08.620 a lot of the early data is suggesting and

01:13:11.360 it's 30 percent less severe or even 80

01:13:14.320 percent less severe some people have

01:13:15.620 suggested those are sort of the range

01:13:17.620 that I've seen you're still talking at the

01:13:20.720 population level of much more death and

01:13:23.980 severe illness than you would have seen

01:13:26.440 with Delta because the disease is going

01:13:28.840 to reach let's say in the same amount of

01:13:30.720 time six times as many people four times

01:13:33.020 as many people even if it's 30 percent

01:13:34.920 less severe you're still seeing a huge

01:13:37.800 accumulating toll of death and suffering

01:13:39.960 and in a context when because we're

01:13:42.900 expecting the wave to be quite compressed

01:13:44.540 because the transmission rates are so high

01:13:46.460 there really is a risk of hospital systems

01:13:49.240 being overrun I think there is an argument

01:13:51.700 for just trying to you know what we used

01:13:54.020 to say a year and a half ago flatten the

01:13:56.220 curve and try to stop it stop it right now

01:13:59.520 I get that everyone's like and by like

01:14:03.360 we're so over two weeks to stop the spread

01:14:05.640 I mean that I realize that the thing has

01:14:07.620 changed and we've had new variants and all

01:14:09.420 that but you know that's part of the problem

01:14:11.960 is in setting expectations that you cannot

01:14:14.560 meet is people wind up getting a boy who

01:14:16.740 cried wolf reaction of like uh-huh right

01:14:19.720 um in any event listen there's so much

01:14:21.660 more to go over I really want to talk

01:14:22.940 about what the Supreme Court just did

01:14:24.180 um and we'll talk about the role of

01:14:26.540 therapeutics right why aren't we focused

01:14:28.120 more directly and and ubiquitously on a

01:14:32.060 cure right on a cure plus I'll show you

01:14:35.180 New York City's guilt-ridden new ad

01:14:37.580 pushing vaccines vaccines for teens we'll

01:14:40.420 pick it up there in two minutes don't go

01:14:41.660 way so David the U.S. Supreme Court um

01:14:48.800 refusing to hear a challenge to New York

01:14:52.640 State's mandatory vaccination program for

01:14:55.220 health workers said the rule covers workers

01:14:58.600 in hospitals and nursing homes home health

01:15:00.420 agencies adult centers as well as hospices

01:15:02.740 um three nurses and a group called we the

01:15:05.260 Patriots USA Inc challenged the mandate

01:15:07.160 arguing it allowed exemptions for those with

01:15:09.340 medical objections but not for people with

01:15:11.840 religious objections and uh the justices are

01:15:15.580 are basically siding as they have in general

01:15:18.920 so far on the side of the state mandates

01:15:21.880 they've they've upheld them or refused to

01:15:23.920 get involved in Indiana Maine now New York

01:15:26.560 um suggesting a tolerance for these types of

01:15:29.660 things uh Gorsuch interestingly Amy Coney

01:15:32.660 Barrett and Brett Kavanaugh sided with the

01:15:34.480 liberals on this uh Alito Gorsuch and

01:15:37.420 Clarence Thomas were in the dissent Gorsuch

01:15:39.960 saying he would have granted the request to

01:15:41.860 take a look at this case noting that doctors

01:15:43.960 and nurses have gone to great lengths to serve

01:15:45.640 their patients during the pandemic and saying um

01:15:48.500 we should know the costs that come when this

01:15:51.260 court stands silent as majorities invade the

01:15:53.620 constitutional rights of the unpopular and

01:15:56.280 unorthodox but these vaccine mandates for the

01:15:59.200 most part are being upheld including at the very

01:16:02.420 highest level I know you're pro-vaccine I'm pro-vaccine

01:16:05.920 too though I have to confess I've been a little

01:16:08.140 disappointed with the number of breakthrough

01:16:10.080 infections and how severe they are in cases like

01:16:12.460 Colin Powell it's like oh my god um so they're not

01:16:16.560 they're less exciting they're less I just thought

01:16:18.780 they were a complete miracle when they first came

01:16:20.600 out I feel a little differently about them now

01:16:22.660 however I'm definitely against vaccine mandates and I

01:16:26.280 know in some corners that makes you an anti-vaxxer I

01:16:28.560 don't agree with that at all I think it should be up to

01:16:30.680 parents with their pediatrician when it comes to the

01:16:33.280 kids and and grown-ups adults with their with their

01:16:35.840 doctor when it comes to themselves but what do you

01:16:38.460 make of it because legally these things are being

01:16:40.160 upheld well you know I wish more people in the

01:16:42.600 country were vaccinated rather than less and it seems

01:16:45.660 like most of the sort of soft tools that we have to

01:16:48.920 encourage that we've sort of maxed out on that and we've

01:16:51.900 maxed out at a relatively low level which means that

01:16:54.400 the U.S. is much less protected than most of its peer

01:16:57.340 countries who are not themselves perfectly protected

01:17:00.100 it's not like all the countries of Europe are not

01:17:03.440 seeing um you know adult adult wave followed by a

01:17:06.280 nomocron wave they're all going through the same thing

01:17:08.080 we are we're a much bigger country with many many more

01:17:11.780 unprotected people and that means that we're we're much

01:17:14.940 more at risk um the thing I I think I agree with about um

01:17:18.720 your perspective about vaccine mandates although in

01:17:21.360 general I'm supportive of them is that we talk about um the we

01:17:26.700 talk about these dynamics as though the primary obligation of

01:17:31.200 individuals is to the society as a whole and I think that

01:17:34.100 there's wisdom in that in that pro-social perspective but I

01:17:36.920 think it's also worth keeping in mind that every individual who

01:17:39.880 chooses to become unvaccinated is assuming a much larger risk to

01:17:44.320 him or herself than they are imposing on those around them

01:17:47.880 now vaccination does reduce your risk of infection and

01:17:51.360 transmission and so there is some social cost that's imposed but if

01:17:55.140 you're putting yourself out there as essentially you know um being

01:17:57.940 comfortable vulnerable to death from covid um you are assuming the

01:18:02.500 lion's share of the the um the sort of hardship there um with

01:18:06.620 risk there and to some degree I think um I understand why why

01:18:10.920 why we might want to be deferential to that calculus like I said I think

01:18:14.680 we'd be in a much better position if the right the country as a whole was

01:18:17.760 better vaccinated personally I'd like to see 100% of the country

01:18:20.960 vaccinated um you're right that there have been um there are a lot of

01:18:24.580 breakthroughs there are some serious breakthrough cases but even among the

01:18:28.040 elderly vaccination um reduces mortality risk by at least tenfold and

01:18:32.960 while that's not perfect and I feel like most of the elderly are getting it you

01:18:35.980 know I mean as you cited in your numbers earlier most the vast majority of

01:18:39.580 people over 65 are the ones at highest risk and are getting it um not all

01:18:44.980 though but you know to me when I look at like the teenagers I think oh my god their

01:18:49.000 lives have been ruined you know these these poor kids they're never going to get

01:18:52.240 these years back of their lost proms and their lost graduations and in a world

01:18:56.760 it's already isolated for them thanks to the damn iPhones and social media it's

01:19:00.940 progressively so right we just get the report from the surgeon general saying

01:19:04.000 teenage anxiety and depression and stress and suicidal idea ideations are at all

01:19:09.760 time highs and then I see because I hear it from my friends who are still in the

01:19:13.520 city talking about how their kids can't do anything unless they've been

01:19:16.980 vaccinated and some parents have legit worries about things like myocarditis

01:19:22.380 depending on their family history then you see this New York City commercial

01:19:25.420 can I just show you this because I'm like oh my oh my lord um to me it seems a

01:19:30.720 little tone deaf to what parents legit concerns are but I'll ask you your opinion

01:19:33.940 watch ready for your teenagers to be teenagers again then get them vaccinated for

01:19:38.560 COVID-19 today without the vaccine when your child's teammates take to the field

01:19:43.000 they'll miss out or when their friends go off to the movies a concert or get a

01:19:47.360 bite to eat your team will miss out because in NYC kids 12 and up must be

01:19:51.840 vaccinated to participate in many school sports extracurricular activities and

01:19:55.740 indoor events so let your team start being teens again get them vaccinated today

01:20:00.440 visit nyc.gov slash COVID vaccine

01:20:03.520 ah see that infuriates me like showing the kids celebrating in their masks yay and

01:20:09.760 anybody who doesn't have the vaccine has to sit on the sidelines just to do

01:20:13.100 something that they've been doing since the beginning of time you know play in a

01:20:16.120 sport outside PS on a field I just like to me it's galling it's galling that they

01:20:23.360 would celebrate something like that but what do you think well to me the striking

01:20:27.140 thing is that it's not focused on the disease risk to teenagers it's not saying

01:20:31.840 you you can breathe easy your kids are going to be safe right it's saying you can

01:20:37.680 breathe easy because your kids will be able to participate in the social

01:20:40.320 activities that they're otherwise barred from so it's setting up the challenge the

01:20:44.980 difficulty not as the disease itself but the public health policies that have

01:20:48.580 been put in place to to limit its spread that's a really interesting play in my

01:20:53.220 experience you know parents who are really worried about their a lot of

01:20:58.260 parents are really worried about their kids I think it's you know to some degree

01:21:00.580 irrational but it's also understandable in the sense that we are all worried

01:21:04.800 about the vulnerable people in our lives and it's hard not to think of our

01:21:07.640 children as vulnerable even whatever the data say but that's not a commercial

01:21:12.260 that's aimed at addressing that anxiety at all it's aimed at you know addressing

01:21:17.180 the the sense of burden or exhaustion that we have with sort of pandemic living

01:21:22.160 yes right burden and exhaustion and I just hate seeing like all the pictures of

01:21:26.800 the kids in the masks as if they're having a great time they're really happy the

01:21:30.780 kids don't want to be wearing these masks they don't want to be dealing with this

01:21:33.360 at all they want to go back to their normal lives they want to be safe I'm

01:21:36.760 sure but I mean this normalization of non-stop covering your face in a way

01:21:41.860 that's really damaging to these kids socially and their well-being

01:21:44.880 psychologically that we need to stand up against that that's not normal normal is

01:21:49.180 a bare face that's normal yeah I mean I you've touched on masks a few times I

01:21:54.400 think it's maybe worth spending just a minute on it you know personally I think

01:21:57.140 that the costs of mask wearing are a bit smaller than you do I'm you know if I could

01:22:02.680 snap my fingers and make it make a policy I wouldn't have my my three-year-old

01:22:07.180 wearing a mask in her in her nursery school but I also don't think that the

01:22:11.020 cost has been enormous to her do you think I think most pro mask people don't

01:22:15.660 understand is that the benefits of mask wearing are relatively small as well the

01:22:20.100 big celebrated Bangladesh randomized control style randomized control trial

01:22:25.280 study from a few months ago which was really celebrated as proof that masks

01:22:30.620 worked found that in those areas where pro mask messaging increased mask wearing

01:22:37.020 by something like 300 percent the spread of the disease was reduced by something

01:22:42.860 like 11 percent so you had a full-on tripling of mask usage which only had a

01:22:47.460 pretty trivial effect on the spread of the disease they only found it was

01:22:51.480 effective at all among those people who were wearing surgical masks and almost

01:22:55.980 no kid I know wears surgical masks they all wear off masks and the effect was

01:23:01.240 again concentrated in the elderly which is again a sign that you know this is

01:23:05.280 perhaps a policy that should be better targeted towards those who are really

01:23:09.580 vulnerable and who could really benefit rather than being imposed universally on

01:23:13.660 the population as a whole so I'm a little less worried about the downsides of masks

01:23:17.340 than you are but I also think that the upsides the benefits are

01:23:20.100 considerably smaller than we've been led to believe what what do you make of

01:23:24.080 Governor Hochul's order now it was on Friday it took it took effect on Monday

01:23:29.660 that workers at companies sitting at their desks if you're at a company that

01:23:35.760 doesn't have a vax mandate and you are unvaxxed while sitting at your desk inside

01:23:42.800 all day you have to wear a mask I look oh like I can't imagine how

01:23:49.580 frustrating that is for the workers of New York what if you have natural immunity

01:23:54.940 right you're sitting there now thanks to Governor Hochul who you know she's never

01:23:59.140 got her mask on I've yet to see a picture of her with her mask on I just think

01:24:03.160 they're they're going to overplay they are overplaying their hand to where even my

01:24:08.140 leftist friends in New York are getting sick of this and I'll give you one other

01:24:10.760 line my one friend he's hilarious he's a diehard liberal guy and he said to us the

01:24:15.980 other night at dinner he was like I don't get it he's like I look at my side and I'm

01:24:19.320 like wasn't this all just to get rid of Trump like that's over we did that like

01:24:23.160 why are we continuing the theater now your thoughts on your order on the mandate in

01:24:29.600 particular I think the most interesting part of it is that she's already said

01:24:34.040 that the state won't be enforcing it against local counties who choose not to

01:24:37.960 enforce it which means that it's really it is a theatrical gesture more than a

01:24:41.840 directed policy one and you know personally I think a lot of the dynamic

01:24:46.740 that you're talking about was not strategic like your friend suggested in

01:24:50.500 sort of ousting Trump but it was formed in a political era in which liberals were

01:24:57.220 or you know processing all of their feelings about the world through their

01:25:01.160 animus for Donald Trump and that meant that because he was callous and indifferent

01:25:06.660 to the disease in general not all that interested in doing anything beyond

01:25:10.140 helping develop the vaccines which was really significant not really interested

01:25:13.720 in doing much more than that liberals developed in response an idea that doing

01:25:18.100 more was always going to be better and preferable and being more vigilant was

01:25:22.540 always better than being less vigilant and I don't think that that was like we

01:25:27.300 need to get Trump out I think it was because Trump is doing X we believe in Y and I

01:25:32.700 think it's a really ugly dynamic although I would say the same the same thing is

01:25:37.740 playing out now with vaccines where all through 2020 whatever we saw about you know

01:25:43.440 red state behavior with masks and social distancing we heard a lot through the

01:25:47.900 media that there was really irresponsible behavior going on all through red

01:25:51.480 America in fact the data show that there was not much difference at all

01:25:55.040 between the behaviors of red states and blue states there was just about

01:25:58.580 exactly as much social distancing going on in red states mask wearing at the peak

01:26:02.600 of the winter surge was above 90% in the whole country I mean it was it was quite

01:26:07.560 uniform whatever we heard from the media but in 2021 with the vaccine rollout we've

01:26:13.000 seen this huge partisan divide opening up I think in part because conservatives are

01:26:17.140 quite skeptical of you know public health bureaucracy that's led by Democrats and

01:26:22.360 Joe Biden and that is you know it's the same dynamic that led liberals to rail

01:26:26.460 against Donald Trump for his indifference last year both both phenomena are

01:26:30.340 really terrible and catastrophic both politically socially and also in terms of

01:26:34.480 public health I would like to believe that we could engineer a sort of a you know a

01:26:39.080 public health consensus on a lot of this stuff but when I look around the world I

01:26:42.400 also don't see all that many countries doing all that much better than we are which

01:26:45.980 means we may not even be dealing with sort of provincial American political

01:26:49.560 problems we may be dealing with sort of much deeper social and political

01:26:53.900 issues which you know the pandemic has raised and almost no one around the

01:26:57.760 world has has engineered a solution to yeah well that's the that's the most

01:27:01.660 profound point of all right what if the truth is there's very little we can do

01:27:06.140 there's there's very little that we can do to stop this this disease this virus from

01:27:12.260 changing our lives and and that if that's true then to me it comes down to your

01:27:17.980 level of risk tolerance because you can't live in a society like America right where we

01:27:22.760 have freedom in our blood and just keep the thumb of big government on people's

01:27:28.480 behavior forever it's just not going to work we're not built that way it's been

01:27:31.900 two years and already you're seeing the patience wane even amongst some on the

01:27:36.420 left so that's the real that's the real rub what if there's really not much we can

01:27:41.560 do and as we all age and get closer to the most vulnerable you know sort of phase

01:27:47.100 of our lives you got to be more and more scared right it's it's not just a problem for

01:27:51.680 the elderly it's if your life goes the way you hope it will you will be elderly

01:27:55.780 at one point you probably have elderly people you love so we do need to pay

01:28:00.040 attention to it and that's the that's why I'd love to see more therapeutics it's

01:28:03.540 like I spent so much time worried about the vaccines and not nearly enough

01:28:07.120 worried about the cure right I mean do you think the Merck pill is that the cure

01:28:11.420 the other pill I can't remember who's making the other one are those the answer

01:28:15.260 yeah okay it's Pfizer well just to start I would say vaccines are already an

01:28:19.660 incredibly powerful tool that do prevent you know if you're well vaccinated

01:28:23.540 something on the order of 90 percent of of your risk of severe disease that is a

01:28:29.160 really quite significant difference if you can be vaccinated it will change your

01:28:33.120 risk calculus profoundly and the country as a whole if it was fully vaccinated the

01:28:37.280 same would apply but I think that therapeutics are really underappreciated and

01:28:42.000 under emphasized tool in our toolkit and I'm I'm really disappointed to see I mean

01:28:47.700 there are many points of disappointment I've had with the FDA along with the

01:28:51.680 CDC throughout the pandemic and how slowly their bureaucracy has been moving

01:28:55.460 but on therapeutics it's it's especially distressing so actually so there are these

01:28:59.840 two drugs that are being talked about right now one has been approved by Merck

01:29:02.860 one is pending approval by Pfizer it's actually the Pfizer drug I think that is

01:29:07.080 much much more powerful and enticing and exciting and as a result I'm really

01:29:11.400 disappointed that the FDA approved the Merck drug first so the Merck drug they their

01:29:16.740 initial data suggested it reduced severe illness by about 50 percent which was

01:29:22.420 exciting although not a total game-changing number their second round of

01:29:26.780 data suggested it had fallen to 30 percent which is starts to get into the

01:29:30.800 zone of the therapeutics we already have it's not that much better than than the

01:29:34.200 tools been using already on top of which it has what's called this is going to be a

01:29:38.420 little technical but it has what's called a positive aims test which means that

01:29:42.240 there is some risk at least measured by this one test in the laboratory that it

01:29:47.220 can change your genetic material putting you at higher risk of cancer now I think

01:29:53.040 that Merck has done relatively good due diligence showing that there is not

01:29:57.420 meaningful risk of cancer for those who take this drug they've they've put in

01:30:02.160 some you know they've studied it they've also put in some aspects of the drug to

01:30:05.460 prevent that but all across the world in all of the OECD countries there's only one

01:30:11.220 drug that's been approved in one country that has a positive aims test and so

01:30:15.860 this is a drug that has a relatively small efficacy measured efficacy and

01:30:21.000 some if not true medical risk it is at least has you know the things about it

01:30:26.980 that are going to make people uncomfortable about taking it the Pfizer

01:30:29.840 drug has an 89 percent measured efficacy so it's three times as effective as the

01:30:36.340 Merck drug and it doesn't have this issue with a positive aims test which means

01:30:39.880 there's considerably less there would be considerably less reluctance for patients

01:30:44.020 to take it I also think that the window in which you have to take it after a

01:30:47.500 positive test or after symptoms show up is a little longer which makes it a

01:30:50.940 little easier to roll out so for all these reasons it seems really really clear to

01:30:55.320 me that of the therapeutics sort of that we're looking at considering right now the

01:31:01.240 Pfizer drug Paxlovid is a much much much much much more preferable one which the FDA

01:31:06.600 should be approving rapidly and which the government should be you know purchasing

01:31:10.840 on mass and rolling out to hospitals and doctors throughout the country rather than

01:31:15.340 going just through the standard protocol where they happen to get the Merck

01:31:18.960 application first so they approve Merck first so now we're in this whatever it's

01:31:22.640 going to be maybe six or eight or 12 week period maybe even longer where we're we're

01:31:27.400 only allowed to give a drug that we know is considerably less effective than

01:31:31.280 another one that's available and has some you know you're not crazy to think

01:31:35.220 there may be some risks associated with it this is just another sign if we needed

01:31:38.680 one that the FDA has really really bungled this pandemic from the start from the

01:31:43.260 first days when they insisted that they had to approve the diagnostic tests that

01:31:47.380 were being used in the U.S. which cost the U.S. a period of about a month when we

01:31:51.460 really that was the one window of time we really could have conceivably you know

01:31:56.300 prevented you know prevented a true true catastrophic nationwide outbreak and the

01:32:01.920 drug the the FDA basically got in the way introduced a test that didn't work and

01:32:06.340 told us we couldn't use any other tests until they figured it out which meant

01:32:09.360 that we were flying blind for that first period of six or eight weeks in the

01:32:12.460 pandemic which proved you know truly catastrophic especially in New York where

01:32:16.840 the wave was that first wave was hardest but there have been failures

01:32:20.420 throughout of the FDA you know the approval process on the vaccines was

01:32:25.120 accelerated and that's valuable but the truth was we knew that they were safe

01:32:30.160 they had demonstrated their safety through clinical trials all the way back

01:32:33.900 in May of 2020 now we didn't know the efficacy exactly but we waited all the way

01:32:39.480 until December to start rolling out the drug which meant that we missed the

01:32:42.980 opportunity to use vaccines to blunt the winter surge last winter and as a

01:32:49.300 result probably you know an additional hundred or two hundred thousand

01:32:52.020 Americans may have died than if it would have been the case if we had approved

01:32:57.060 the drugs in say September and started rolling out right at the beginning of fall

01:33:01.620 you know I know you're saying the left is very critical of how Trump handled all

01:33:06.220 this and and now the right with respect to Biden same I mean from where I stand

01:33:11.820 both these guys had a very hard job on their hands especially I will say

01:33:17.080 especially Trump because he was there at the beginning when we didn't know what we

01:33:19.940 were dealing with the Chinese weren't being totally honest with us about their

01:33:23.500 situation and showing us the data when we needed it and he did get the vaccine

01:33:27.460 done so I mean credit to Trump for all of that did he handle it perfectly no did

01:33:32.660 Biden no but sadly this is a this is a it's a mean virus and it's hard to predict

01:33:39.860 what it's going to do next and they've you know politicians should be making

01:33:43.220 making promises about things like that because they it's going to be hard to live up to

01:33:46.840 it I will say though neither neither administration has prioritized sort of the

01:33:52.940 world vaccination problem you know that's how we got Omicron what what about Africa

01:33:56.820 right I know you've been you've been pointing this out the reason I was thinking

01:34:00.580 about it is you know time came out with this person of the year yesterday and it

01:34:03.620 was Elon Musk and you know you've got you've made the point I think I think it

01:34:08.320 was you that you took sort of what Elon Musk made in a year or Jeff Bezos made in a

01:34:12.980 year whatever they could easily easily have funded the 50 billion dollars that

01:34:18.040 you say it would have cost or the International Monetary Fund estimated it

01:34:21.320 would cost to fully vaccinate the whole world and we haven't done it so why not

01:34:29.720 like I see the White House saying oh here's another 100 million vaccines for

01:34:32.880 this country there's that but like I didn't realize 50 billion was the number

01:34:36.420 that to me seems very doable and yet it's not getting done yeah I mean I in that

01:34:41.880 particular report is I think really really clarifying so it's not just the

01:34:47.000 cost which is so low 50 billion which for a government like the US even going

01:34:51.160 at single-handedly it's it's nothing I mean that's a rounding error in our

01:34:54.440 budget it's that the returns on that investment would be so large so the IMF

01:34:58.980 estimated that a 50 billion dollar investment starting in 2021 would pay off

01:35:04.000 by 2025 just four years down the road to the tune of nine trillion dollars which is a

01:35:10.740 180 fold return on investment now that's globally the benefits would be felt

01:35:16.220 globally but even if the US decided to fund this project entirely on its own

01:35:20.820 enough of that money would come back to the US economy that we would be

01:35:24.240 considering a major economic victory not to mention the obvious humanitarian

01:35:28.860 benefits not to mention the huge diplomatic opportunity that there would be for

01:35:33.620 the US to be a true global leader here China throughout the vaccination phase of the

01:35:39.180 pandemic has tried to use vaccine diplomacy distributing their vaccines around the

01:35:43.680 world but their vaccines aren't nearly as good as ours which means that we have a

01:35:46.880 natural advantage here and could really really use it to our you know geopolitical

01:35:51.220 benefit I think you know we haven't done it for a number of reasons but I think

01:35:55.000 it's basically because we're not all that interested at the political level but

01:35:59.820 also at the sort of level of the individual citizen the level of the

01:36:02.900 individual voter in the lives of people living in sub-Saharan Africa I think we see

01:36:07.620 this you know I write a lot about climate I think we see this dynamic play out very

01:36:10.760 clearly in climate where there's just very little attention paid to the

01:36:14.160 suffering of people in sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia whose lives we

01:36:17.720 define as essentially naturally full of suffering rather than being

01:36:22.760 opportunities for humanitarian intervention well I mean not to diminish the

01:36:26.240 value of those lives but I think in terms of the sales pitch you don't even

01:36:30.260 necessarily need to go there you know you need to talk about how look at

01:36:34.140 Omicron you know look at how everyone's gonna have to get another booster now

01:36:37.420 another shutdown a new mask mandate like if we could manage to get the rest of

01:36:42.040 the world vaccinated we would like to believe if we if there's reason exercised

01:36:47.480 by the politicians and so on in control we we can get a handle on this thing

01:36:52.040 finally we won't keep having variant after variant or at least we'll have fewer yeah

01:36:58.160 no I think it's I think even the most cynical calculation says that we should

01:37:02.600 absolutely be rushing ahead with this kind of thing immediately and instead we've

01:37:06.400 done this very gestural theatrical you know donating a few million doses here and

01:37:11.780 there kind of thing which I think you know it's an indictment of not just the US

01:37:16.560 but all the wealthy nations of the world because as you know as we were saying

01:37:19.920 just a minute ago that the ultimate cost of such a project is is really trivial

01:37:23.780 compared to I mean you know some estimates are that the US has spent 10 trillion

01:37:27.840 dollars on pandemic relief so far so we're talking about you know 200 times

01:37:32.040 one one one two hundredth or one half of one percent of the amount of money that

01:37:35.900 the US has spent on pandemic relief and as as you point out it's an investment it's

01:37:40.320 an investment that will return somebody like Elon with the logic that we've used

01:37:44.880 with the pandemic relief that this is not just to you know that it will keep the

01:37:49.060 economy running it will you know it will pay us back and we just are unable to

01:37:53.840 extend that same logic internationally all right so I at another point I would love to

01:37:59.380 have you back on to talk about your thoughts on climate change you've literally written

01:38:03.540 the book on it and there's a movie being made of your book I would love to go there

01:38:06.920 another another time and I also at that time would love to talk to you about your marriage

01:38:12.880 because I love this my team always finds like personal details about the folks coming

01:38:16.400 on okay that just a parting thought for our for our audiences audience David used to do

01:38:22.640 New York magazine's sex lives podcast he is married to Risa founder of an art gallery

01:38:28.300 they started dating at 19 when they were studying abroad in Paris he says they are

01:38:32.540 obsessed with each other I love that and I want to know more there's a tease for our

01:38:38.580 next segment with David Wallace Wells thank you so much for being here thanks for having

01:38:43.800 me great to talk to you and want to tell the audience up next by popular demand we're

01:38:49.200 bringing back asked and answered remember I told you that if you go to Apple podcast you

01:38:53.460 subscribe to the show and download and you leave a thought there or a question or comment

01:38:57.540 I read them all and most recently there was somebody saying where's asked and answered I

01:39:02.100 missed that segment where the listeners submit written questions via email or on social media

01:39:06.740 and some of you have some personal questions for me which I will address next

01:39:11.400 now it's time for our feature called asked and answered this is where our listeners or viewers

01:39:22.020 submit questions usually via email if that's the easiest way for us to get them to questions

01:39:28.760 questions at devilmaycaremedia.com questions at devilmaycaremedia.com as I stated you can also

01:39:36.560 post them in comment or question form on the Apple podcasts link when you download and subscribe to the

01:39:42.240 show that also helps us right with the downloads and the subscribers because unlike Michelle Obama

01:39:47.860 and Hillary Clinton we get no love from Apple they're constantly pushing those podcasts but not ours

01:39:52.640 okay I'm going to read the questions myself usually Steve Krakauer does it but he's in a

01:39:57.080 studio today so he can't here's number one this is from they didn't put their real name right turn

01:40:03.960 to hell is their their moniker what do you do to maintain a successful relationship with your

01:40:11.580 husband that is a good question because you know 50% of marriages end in divorce it's tough during the

01:40:17.680 pandemic times you know you're all over each other in terms of time together and so on even still you

01:40:23.040 know there's a lot more time together and I will say I've said this before but it's true

01:40:26.680 the number one most important thing to a good relationship is using your most generous lens on

01:40:34.400 your partner and that's really more than half the battle you just put those sort of rose-colored

01:40:38.600 glasses on and they will endure to your benefit to interpret every piece of behavior through the most

01:40:44.780 generous lens instead of the least generous lens and it winds up coming back to you and when your

01:40:50.340 least generous instincts kick in remind yourself rose-colored glasses are not bad try it again

01:40:55.440 um here's another one how do you maintain this is from emma how do you maintain your peace of mind

01:41:01.400 when you're being attacked similar from shara who wrote what's something you do to feel supported

01:41:07.400 amid all the hostility um i tried not to take that stuff in i try to avoid it and if it comes my way

01:41:14.040 um to then sort of go seek out some love i mean there's way more love out there than there is hate for

01:41:19.440 me and for you it's actually one of the things i love about the comments over on apple they're so

01:41:24.160 lovely and uplifting that's you know you go there if you if you need a little ego boost it's nice

01:41:28.740 and you have to remember the people who are writing the the nasty things there's a saying

01:41:32.900 haters hate up um they wouldn't be taking those shots at you if they didn't feel threatened or

01:41:37.600 powerless in response to you there's some satisfaction in that don't forget to watch the

01:41:42.000 show tomorrow download the show via podcast and watch us on youtube.com slash megan kelly and tomorrow

01:41:48.080 dave ramsey is here don't miss that thanks for listening to the megan kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear

The Megyn Kelly Show - December 14, 2021

Real COVID Risk to Kids and Biden's Lagging Leadership, with Charles C.W. Cooke and David Wallace-Wells ｜ Ep. 221

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