Trump takes questions from the media for the first time as he prepares to return to the White House. Mark Halperin and Dan Turrentine join me to talk about what they saw from Trump's first day back in office.
00:14:38.600It's just a supposition that that's why she did it.
00:14:41.360But what do you make of that lawsuit and the lawsuit against the Pulitzer board, which we talked about, sorry, Nobel, which we talked about the other day.
00:16:18.660Now, in the Iowa case, my understanding is that what Trump's lawyers are going against isn't the Sullivan standard saying you defamed me, but in fact, a consumer law that Iowa has about misrepresenting people.
00:16:32.840Again, I'll defer to you and the lawyers about the nuances of that, but they're using a very interesting tactic saying that they violated Iowa's consumer statute, which prevents misinformation about a product.
00:16:44.660Now, again, it's a very narrow reading from my layperson standpoint.
00:16:49.100But, you know, look, I think what it does when that poll came out, right?
00:16:54.500First of all, the Iowa poll has had a storied history of problems.
00:16:58.880The bottom line is, is that that didn't pass the smell test.
00:17:02.560And nobody bought that, both in terms of what other public polls at the time said and in terms of what the data was suggesting where Iowa's electorate was.
00:19:00.520I look at her and I see someone who is humiliated.
00:19:03.980I just I just think that to judge one person by one poll, there's no evidence that a poll like that, quote unquote, influences the election.
00:19:12.440But I think I think what's important is that President Trump be judicious in choosing who to go after you.
00:19:19.880This case, I don't think I don't agree with you.
00:19:22.100I think it'll be thrown out on the paper.
00:19:23.600And I think it cheapens the victory he has with over ABC who said, oh, we don't know exactly why.
00:19:30.420But he should focus on the cases where not only he feels personally aggrieved, but where there's a chance of not only and not only cases where he's a chance of winning, but in cases where there's an important principle at stake.
00:19:41.100And that's, I think, the best use of his time and his lawyer's time and his money.
00:19:45.660And so there's a question about whether he's intimidating pollsters here.
00:19:49.060You know, Trump is obsessed with polls and he dismisses the ones that he doesn't like.
00:19:53.620And he doesn't and he kind of does the same thing with media is kind of obsessed with media and attacks the ones that he doesn't like.
00:19:59.760But the thing with ABC was real and it was a legit problem and a legit objection.
00:20:03.920And I don't agree with all those people who say that he was going to lose that case.
00:20:08.420I think if that had gone forward, there was a very, very good chance that Trump would have won that case, possibly even just on the papers without a jury trial.
00:20:26.540Like I said, you're the you're the lawyer on this.
00:20:28.120If they were to get to discovery in the Des Moines Register Seltzer case and they found someone there emailing and and saying, gosh, this doesn't really comport with what recent information suggests, you know, or here's a sample that we don't think.
00:20:44.260If if if you saw that exchange, I guess my question to you as a lawyer would be, isn't that the point if they can show that they knew there were flaws and they went ahead with it?
00:20:56.220But if you could show that they were flaws and they knew about them, wouldn't that give you merit to go forward?
00:21:02.700Maybe. But even that's a real stretch.
00:21:06.260And I would think that before the judge would engage in allowing that kind of discovery, you'd have to have a good faith basis to to make the allegation.
00:21:13.980There has to be more than just like, I suspect I think she tanked it intentionally.
00:21:24.340And she projected Kamala was up by three and Trump won the state by 14 and she was very off and it rattled team Trump and he's irritated by it.
00:21:35.740So that to me seems to be all of the evidence they have against Ann Seltzer.
00:21:40.820Now, if they've got something else and they can attach something to their, you know, motion to fight the dismissal, which you're not supposed to do, you're supposed to judge it based on the four corners of the document, the complaint.
00:22:22.760OK, let's talk about that Trump soundbite where he was talking about how he'd view the primary campaigns against people who stand in the way of his nominees.
00:22:32.500Two of them back in the news today, RFKJ on Capitol Hill trying to make nice with the senators who will have the say over whether he makes it as HHS secretary.
00:22:43.140Pete Hegseth still out there doing the same unclear on both of them as of today what their fate will be.
00:22:51.280But there was a wave of attacks against RFKJ over the past few days started last Thursday or Friday saying his counsel, his lawyer.
00:23:03.680Filed a lawsuit trying to get rid of the polio vaccine and that these two are close and all these media like RFKJ wants to get rid of the polio vaccine, which unlike the covid quote vaccine is a real vaccine.
00:23:16.600Like you take it and you don't get polio and it was just absolutely a smear campaign.
00:23:22.500We actually looked into it and made contact with the lawyer.
00:23:25.100However, the lawyer tried to get rid of he challenged one, one of the many polio vaccines, one strain of it did not say, let's get rid of all the others because it had potentially cancerous cells in it.
00:23:40.740And there hadn't been tested against a control group and it had not gone through the rigorous testing that vaccine should go through.
00:23:48.080So he said that one is problematic, that you would never know that if you looked at what the media did.
00:23:55.280And I'll give you a couple of examples of the headlines.
00:23:57.920New York Times, Kennedy's lawyer has asked the FDA to revoke approval of the polio vaccine.
00:24:03.780New York Times, McConnell defends polio vaccine, an apparent warning to Kennedy.
00:24:07.920Now it's Kennedy's, now Kennedy wants to get rid of the polio vaccine.
00:24:11.840WAPO, RFK Jr. ally filed a petition to revoke FDA approval for polio vaccine.
00:24:17.540The New Republic, RFK Jr.'s lawyer exposed trying to abolish polio vaccine.
00:24:24.160NBC backlash grows over RFKJ's lawyer asking FDA to revoke approval of polio vaccine.
00:24:33.920And, you know, it doesn't take that much effort to do what we did, which is, did he really do that?
00:24:39.920It took us about five minutes to realize, no, he didn't.
00:24:43.740Well, in addition, as you also pointed out, it's not Bobby Kennedy.
00:24:47.180It's his lawyer, one of his many lawyers.
00:24:51.060I find that it's so interesting in the media now, what I call the dominant media.
00:24:55.580Some of the coverage is reminiscent of the way Donald Trump's been covered for seven years, you know, tendentiously hostile.
00:25:00.700Some of it's actually as favorable as anything he's ever gotten.
00:25:04.240I think the fate of the nominees, including Bobby Kennedy, including Pete Hegseth and Tulsi Gabbard, will be on how well they do when January hearings come.
00:25:14.020It'll also be on whether there's any new revelations about them.
00:25:17.740But I think for Team Trump, these kinds of stories are actually beneficial because in the end they are debunked.
00:25:24.700And once again, even though the press is being nice some of the time to Trump, nicer, they're able to use that to say, look how unfair this is.
00:25:32.000Nothing rallies MAGA and many of the Republican senators more around the Trump nominees than attacks from the media that they consider to be unfair.
00:25:40.720So I would say that round of stories probably helped Bobby Kennedy because now the focus isn't is Bobby Kennedy right on abortion or is he right on this or that.
00:25:52.400And one thing you know about Bobby Kennedy, I mean, having interviewed him many times is he's extremely smart and he's a litigator.
00:25:58.640He spent a lifetime as a lawyer pursuing these causes.
00:26:01.180He will be so ready on this and any other empty attacks.
00:26:05.180I mean, he will slice and dice with the best of them.
00:26:07.260He's been under attack for all of his adult life.
00:26:09.400So, Dan, last time you guys were on, I believe it was you who said you think that he may get some Dem support because he is a Democrat and he did have so much support in his own presidential run.
00:26:24.260Do you still think that and do you think he's going to have trouble getting through?
00:26:30.860I mean, Megan, one of the things we heard all fall that that gave me kind of confidence in saying that I think that I thought Trump was going to win is the number of people who would come on our show and say, I'm a Democrat.
00:26:42.580I've left the party because of how it treated RFK.
00:26:45.620And I am with Trump because RFK is with Trump.
00:26:48.600And if we're going to win national elections again and be, you know, get the Senate back, we have got to find a way to win both RFK and his voters and bring them back into the party.
00:27:00.020And I think there will be some Democrats that will vote for him.
00:27:03.700I think that his biggest threat really is from the right.
00:27:07.080I think the fact that, as you said, he is a Democrat, his views on choice, his views on the role of government in health care are more are closer to our party, that they're pretty aligned with our party and less the Republican Party.
00:27:21.860And so I think he's going to have to answer those questions and give comfort to some people on the right.
00:27:27.640Certainly not all Democrats will vote for RFK, but I do believe there will be more than one or two that will vote for him and they should.
00:27:34.900Do you know how mind blowing this is, by the way?
00:27:39.920Donald Trump, a Republican, has appointed a Kennedy who was primarying Biden just, what, 12 months ago for the Democratic nomination, has been put into the cabinet where he will get, by and large, Republican votes.
00:27:58.060If you think about where we are in terms of which party is more inclusive.
00:28:02.400Bobby Kennedy, a part of the Kennedy family, who was literally fighting for the Democratic nomination, is going to be in the cabinet of Donald Trump.
00:28:25.060But you also go back to how you started this conversation between the media story with ABC settling for $15 million with Donald Trump and the lies that they're telling about Bobby Kennedy and vaccines.
00:28:37.200The bottom line is this, the media that supposedly dies in darkness and hates the spread of misinformation is just showing you why it's a dying industry.
00:28:47.800They continue to spread misinformation and lies.
00:28:50.500This is why we showed on actually on the morning meeting the other day, exclusive polling from Signal.
00:28:56.160And when you look at where people are getting their news, it's very, very interesting.
00:29:29.980One other thing about Bobby Kennedy, we've heard for months, including today on the morning meeting, from parents, lots of moms, who really believe in make America healthy again.
00:29:43.480And they understand not everything you hear about Bobby Kennedy is true.
00:29:47.360And there may be things they don't like about him.
00:29:48.840But of all the people Donald Trump is trying to bring into the government, even more than Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy from the outside, Bobby Kennedy has the potential to revolutionize America with that agenda for drugs and food and the health of our children, wellness.
00:30:14.700And just already, just from talking about them during the transition and the campaign, Bobby Kennedy, I would argue, has done more to elevate these issues than anyone ever has, including Michelle Obama, who talked about some of them, but not in the fundamental way of going after corporate interests.
00:30:29.400And so I'll be curious to see if he pursues it, but that's what I think could win him some Democratic votes, because they're such fundamental issues for their constituents.
00:30:37.800Think about how Republicans have fared with women, right?
00:30:41.700This is an issue that can transcend party, bring more women to the Republican Party, because they're concerned about what their children are eating, what they're eating.
00:30:51.240They are, in many cases, the people who are the providers for a family.
00:30:56.560And so women are at the forefront of this issue.
00:30:58.880And I think that what RFK and what Donald Trump are doing, exposing the NIH, the CDC, the FDA, and what we had thought was eating healthy, is going to be monumental, both in terms of longevity and our wellness as a country, but I think also politically.
00:31:18.120We had the opioid crisis, where we realized that our federal government officials are not protecting us.
00:31:25.200In fact, they're in bed with big pharma to pad their own pockets as individuals and otherwise, and they don't give a damn about the rest of us.
00:31:32.460And then we had COVID, which reinforced all of that.
00:31:35.560And then we had just the explosion of, you know, the Maha beginnings, whether it was Casey Means and our brother Callie Means.
00:31:42.660But that interview they gave on Tucker went everywhere.
00:32:53.480And it's making us, and yes, our children, sick.
00:32:59.060Yeah, Megan, you hit something, too, when you said this goes back to kind of COVID.
00:33:03.520One of the problems for the Democratic Party is we have kind of tried to shut down debate on a lot of stuff when people have questioned things.
00:33:10.860And we've said, oh, the experts, the scientists, like anyone who says, you know, that you shouldn't wear a mask.
00:33:17.320Anyone that says maybe the kids should be back in school.
00:33:19.820Anyone who says, you know, maybe six feet isn't the right number.
00:33:35.320Pesticides, food, the obesity with children.
00:33:37.940The fact that we are defending the status quo in an era when people are so against, they're so upset, they're frustrated, they feel like their voices aren't heard.
00:33:48.180It frustrates me as a Democrat that Trump and the Republican Party have owned now and taken over and they are seen as a party that is asking questions, is probing, is willing to change.
00:34:03.420That is that I'd rather be them than us right now.
00:34:06.160And we have to become more tolerant and accepting of people with different views and ask questions about why and respect what people are thinking.
00:34:14.980You know, you listen to RFKJ and, you know, I've interviewed him at length many times.
00:34:20.300And what he's saying is not like, let's get rid of all the vaccines.
00:34:23.540But even on the vaccines, he was saying there's mercury in these vaccines and it doesn't need to be in there.
00:34:28.740And while they said, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong.
00:38:53.280Hegseth is now in the New York Times under attack in an article dated yesterday for his bodyguard that has been walking around with him at the meetings on Capitol Hill.
00:39:06.800The headline is, Hegseth's guard left the army after the beating of a civilian during training.
00:39:15.660John Hassenbein, who has escorted Donald J. Trump's pick for defense secretary to meetings on Capitol Hill, said he was unjustly prosecuted for this 2019 episode by Dave Phillips and Sharon Lafreniere.
00:39:30.360And this whole article, guys, is about the guy who's been guarding Pete so that he doesn't get attacked on Capitol Hill by some nut.
00:39:40.420How a couple years ago, he was doing a drill to learn how to, like, take down terrorists.
00:39:48.420And they were doing this drill because he was a former Army Special Forces.
00:39:53.960And when they did this training event, they had civilian role players come in and play ISIS, play bad guys.
00:40:02.160And that this guy, Hassanbein, allegedly kicked, punched, and hurt this civilian role player, even leaving him hogtied, the Times writes, in a pool of his own blood.
00:40:16.900And it led to an investigation and ultimately a charge by the Army of aggravated assault and reckless endangerment.
00:40:26.480A military jury found him guilty of the assault charge in a court martial in 2020.
00:40:31.140But the judge overseeing the case wound up throwing it out because it turned out that there had been improper conduct by a juror speaking with, as it turns out, a friend of Mr. Hassanbein about the trial, which that will get your verdict thrown out every time.
00:40:46.020And the Times is trying to say this somehow reflects on Pete Hegseth's fitness for Pentagon chief because he then hired this guy who ultimately was not convicted because they threw it out in the Army, chose not to retry him, and was honorably retired from the Army after 22 years of service.
00:41:09.760They basically said, if you retire, we'll let it be honorable and we won't pursue another charge against you.
00:41:16.020They want us to not, I guess, vote for Pete, Sean, because he hired that guy to run security for him.
00:41:25.860And it's just further evidence of his lapse in judgment and flouting of military rules.
00:41:34.100Yeah, I've been waiting to break this news on The Megyn Kelly Show, so I'm going to go ahead and do this right now.
00:41:38.540There's a story coming out tomorrow that the girl that Pete dated in sixth grade has a brother who mowed the lawn of a guy down the street whose cousin knew a guy that once was related to somebody that Pete saw at a reunion when he was there for five minutes.
00:41:56.580And that person said that Pete stiffed him on the tip.
00:42:00.260So I think this is going to get really bad before it gets better.
00:42:05.680I mean, talk about the gymnastics that the Times had to do.
00:42:09.840If we're at this point now, Dan, of the dirt digging phase on Pete, I feel like he should be feeling pretty good.
00:42:16.260Yeah, look, if the standard was that every politician's friends had to be completely clean, there'd be nobody in federal or state government.
00:42:51.640And one of the things, you know, voters roll their eyes about.
00:42:53.860So, moreover, can I tell you guys something as somebody who has been threatened and had some bad actors, you know, in my life want to hurt me?
00:43:02.840This is exactly the kind of guy I want to hire.
00:44:16.840You can't deny a congressional subpoena based on an NDA.
00:44:20.160Anyway, now the question is, do the Democrats call her and does she go in?
00:44:27.280And do the Democrats want to make this Kavanaugh 2.0 mark or do they realize like this could backfire and this too could spin so out of control?
00:44:36.820A Kavanaugh was a, it was an event for Republicans that was like a before and after moment where the party congealed in a way it hadn't before in Trump's presidency.
00:44:49.300So like that's a risky proposition for the Dems too.
00:44:54.080So I think you got to say, as you follow the narrative of the Hegseth nomination, that he and his team, including J.D. Vance, have done a textbook job, should be studied in political science courses, putting the nomination back on track because it was basically going into a ditch and not coming out.
00:45:11.200He's now done what they needed to do, which is to get all the Republican senators to say, we're not coming out against him until January, if at all.
00:45:29.560And you've heard, you've heard some of the senators, including Jeremy Ernst of Iowa, make reference to that.
00:45:34.460If the allegations become not anonymous, but someone testifies, and if questions about whether he's ready to run the building and sit in the sitting room, if those are put in sharp relief, I think there are some Republicans who might vote negatively towards him.
00:45:48.880The Hexeth nomination was driven, and the questions about him were driven by Democrats and what I call the Iron Triangle of Democrats, senators, the congressional staff, and the outside groups, along with their media allies.
00:46:07.960Democrats have their doubts, too, but they're meaningless, because they're not going to vote for him.
00:46:11.420I think if there's no new revelations and he performs well, whether this person testifies or not, I don't think we'll stop him from being confirmed.
00:46:20.100But he has to perform well, and there have to be no new revelations.
00:46:23.580And I will tell you that even some of his allies are braced for more revelations.
00:46:28.340I don't know, Dan, what this woman would sound like if she decided to testify.
00:46:34.520I think in interviewing her, somebody would probably be able to get a feel for whether she'd make a good witness or not.
00:46:41.600But there are so many holes in her story.
00:46:43.760I mean, I think this would shape up to be more like Anita Hill than Christine Blasey Ford, where there's a lot to cross-examine her with.
00:46:58.160You know, like, it would be ugly for her.
00:47:01.940I really think it would be ugly for her.
00:47:04.680That's my assessment, because I've read the police report.
00:47:07.460And his lawyer is already threatening her.
00:47:10.080Like, you can go, of course, you can abide by a subpoena, but it doesn't relieve you of your obligations not to defame Pete Hegseth.
00:47:19.140And if you get out there and accuse him of rape, here I am, and you'll be sued.
00:47:25.780And I don't think this woman has a lot of money from what I hear, and I think she just lost her Pete Hegseth money.
00:47:31.760So, you know, we don't know whether we have a willing accuser.
00:47:35.540But do you think the Democrats will see the risk in calling such a person, given that police report?
00:47:41.340Yeah, I mean, look, anytime somebody steps forward in a public nature to make an allegation as serious as she may potentially make, you have to brace yourself.
00:47:52.240I mean, you are entering the deep end of the pool.
00:47:56.980People will question your character, your motives, everything.
00:48:00.180And as you say, in the Brett Kavanaugh instance, the testimony against him was pretty riveting.
00:48:07.540I mean, she stepped forward and made, you know, some very serious charges.
00:48:13.460And that nomination obviously was kind of teetering for a moment there.
00:48:17.240Look, I think if you're the Democrats, there are so many allegations against Hegseth, whether it's in this instance, the fiscal mismanagement.
00:48:26.760You know, is he the right fit to lead the Pentagon during a time of two wars?
00:48:32.140It's one of the biggest bureaucracies.
00:48:33.780The procurement process is a mess, let alone the questions about DEI and other things that Trump would like him to focus on.
00:48:40.140I think you have an obligation to raise all of these issues in a respectful way.
00:48:46.240And I think, you know, as Mark said, there are Republican senators for whom these are, you know, individual allegations are also concerning.
00:48:53.400And so I think if you're the Democrats, you have to have a witness that's willing to cooperate and be comfortable putting her or, you know, some instances himself out there because you are going to get roughed up.
00:49:06.440That's not a Trump thing. That's just a political thing. If you step forward.
00:49:11.820That's true, even if what you're saying is true.
00:49:15.880And I believe in this case, what she's saying is a false accusation.
00:49:19.500So she's going to be especially hesitant.
00:49:22.180I mean, I really believe it was the husband who pushed her into making this allegation because he could not come to terms with the fact that his wife had gone down the hall and slept with Pete Hegseth while he was in the hotel room that she was supposed to be in with their kids.
00:49:34.660I want to correct myself. It was the Hill that had that article about Kavanaugh 2.0 dated today by Alexander Bolton and saying that it was John Cornyn who said he told Hegseth it's going to be a miserable experience, sort of like Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation hearing.
00:49:50.940And then it was Tom Tillis, Republican of North Carolina, who said he fears this battle could be worse than the brawl that erupted over Kavanaugh.
00:50:00.780Everything is going to be elevated. Quote, I think it's going to be Kavanaugh on steroids.
00:50:08.640So I think you may see you may see you may see a different witness or witnesses rather than that particular woman.
00:50:14.820Oh, God. It sounds like Mark knows something. There's a tease. Fifteen seconds to break. We'll pick it up with Mark. He always does this.
00:50:21.960We'll take a quick commercial break. We'll be back with the guys right after this. Don't go away.
00:50:26.660Don't wait. Shop Cozy Earth right now before their most loved gifts sell out this holiday season.
00:50:33.180What's your favorite Christmas memory? Maybe curling up by the tree, the glow of the lights filling the room, spending time with the family and feeling completely at peace?
00:50:41.780Cozy Earth helps you recreate that magic by transforming your home into a sanctuary, a haven of calm amidst life's chaos.
00:50:51.440Their bamboo sheet set is the ultimate in luxury. Designed to be incredibly breathable, it keeps you several degrees cooler for a night of uninterrupted rest.
00:50:59.660With a durable weave guaranteed to last 10 years, it's a thoughtful gift everyone can enjoy and use every day.
00:51:05.660And for those slow, cozy holiday mornings, Cozy Earth's long-sleeved bamboo pajama sets are a must-have.
00:51:12.580Luxuriously soft and stylish, they're perfect for lounging in total comfort while making lasting memories with loved ones.
00:51:18.620Want your Cozy Earth gifts by Christmas? Well, expedited shipping is available through December 20.
00:51:25.460Wrap the ones you love in luxury with Cozy Earth.
00:51:27.540Go to CozyEarth.com slash Megan. Use my exclusive code, M-E-G-Y-N, for up to 40% off your order.
00:57:39.880I mean, look, I think there's three things about her here.
00:57:42.580I think, one, you know, much to my surprise, I think, Mark, Sean, there's been very little talk since the election about her as a candidate.
00:57:51.020The fact that she was indecisive, cautious, kind of playing not to make a mistake.
00:57:55.840Those are the same things that brought her down in 2019 and surfaced again in 2024.
00:58:01.700The second point is candidates that run three times and are successful, like Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump,
00:58:08.060they're consistent in their views, in their policy positions.
00:58:12.480And the country kind of comes towards them or in Trump's case, they come back towards you.
00:58:17.900She was the definition of inconsistent, right?
00:58:52.420But the grassroots is not in love with her.
00:58:55.580Major donors were not in love with her.
00:58:57.880And so I think if she were to run, you know, the best thing that ever happened to her was not having a primary.
00:59:03.400Because if she would have had to have picked, you know, a moderate or liberal position on issue after issue in a primary, explain why she had changed her positions or not changed her positions.
00:59:15.800She she you know, last time that happened, she didn't even make it to Iowa.
00:59:19.480So I think whether she runs for president or governor, she would face a lot of challengers.
00:59:25.060And I would, you know, not be confident if I were her that she would be victorious.
00:59:32.080Why haven't there been articles dissecting her weaknesses as a candidate?
00:59:38.000I feel like I'm the only one who did it in a long episode we released shortly after the election, which was very honest about her failings.
00:59:49.260You know, Mark has asked the same question here recently, and I don't have a good answer.
00:59:54.180I think there seems to be a lot of finger pointing at Donald Trump.
00:59:57.320There seems to be an effort by her senior staff to say we ran.
01:00:02.640I think one person said, quote, a flawless campaign to which Chris Lasavita said, yeah, you can't lose and say you ran a flawless campaign.
01:00:09.880But there is just this kind of, you know, excuse that the winds were so strong.
01:00:15.360Trump was he had such a the upper hand that really there was no way we could win, which I just don't believe and find the data doesn't back that up.
01:00:24.160I don't know, Megan. I do believe that in the new year, when people thinking about twenty twenty eight start to emerge, that they will make sure that she goes through the barrel, so to speak, that that these stories do come out.
01:00:38.300But for now, I agree. I can't believe it that she's escaping criticism personally.
01:00:44.820If she skulks off into the night, they'll they'll keep their fingers off the keyboards.
01:00:48.740But if she's like, I'm I think I might be the one for twenty twenty eight, they'll get her.
01:01:00.560No. So what do you make of those possibilities, Mark?
01:01:03.340Governor of California or possibly once again running for the Democratic nomination and possibly president?
01:01:09.880I don't like to never say never, but I find it hard to believe that she could build support the stories.
01:01:17.260It's it's it's so disappointing to see our colleagues just as they did during the four years of the Biden administration failing to cover the truth right before our eyes.
01:01:27.760Is her poor performance the only reason she didn't win?
01:01:31.400No, but it's right up there. It's right up there.
01:01:36.920She chose to be the nominee and she owned a calendar when she chose to be a nominee.
01:01:40.820She knew there were only hundred and seven days and she knew what her limits were as a candidate.
01:01:45.080So I think I think both Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have escaped a lot of the blame that falls to them.
01:01:52.320And that's not just my view, but the view of a lot of Democrats, donors and members of Congress, et cetera.
01:01:57.500I think her chance of being governor of California are greater than being the Democratic nominee.
01:02:03.780But I don't think they're as great as people say, because, again, her challenge is her weakness.
01:02:09.740She does not like to make difficult choices under pressure.
01:02:12.460And that is the job description for running for governor of California, being governor of California, running for president, being president.
01:02:18.580So I think she might try, but I think she'd be surprised at how tough it is.
01:02:22.260And finally, I would say, I'm not sure she wants to be governor of California.
01:02:45.540Sean, there is an article, and there have been a few like this, but it's an interesting one, not blaming Kamala Harris for the loss, but acknowledging that the Democrats are now behind the eight ball when it comes to the culture and where our culture is and it's going.
01:03:12.220Flaherty and the Harris team decided to book her on sports shows, Taney writes, and podcasts.
01:03:19.800But one by one, the biggest personalities and shows politely turned them down.
01:03:25.800They didn't want anything to do with this race or this particular nominee.
01:03:29.760I would venture to say they probably would have gotten a different answer had we been talking Barack Obama in 2008 when the digital lane was not a thing.
01:03:38.540Um, they go on, uh, the, the Flaherty goes on to say to Max Taney, um, yes, we skipped major legacy news due to a shorter campaign and data that showed that our audiences overwhelmingly supported Harris already.
01:03:53.920There's just no value with respect to my colleagues in the mainstream press in a general election to, to speaking to the New York times or speaking to the Washington post because those readers are already with us.
01:04:05.200Pretty interesting admission by this top Democrat.
01:04:32.760It's not as simple as just go on Joe Rogan and talk about how great democracy is and the importance of preserving the independence of the DOJ or whatever.
01:04:41.120You've got to speak their language as long as we seem like the party of the system, the people who are anti-system and are looking for anti-systemic media.
01:04:52.140We're going to have a hard time connecting with them.
01:04:54.680I actually think that's a very smart point and he's totally right.
01:04:58.840Like she, she couldn't have sold it, Sean, had she gone on Joe Rogan and just done what we just saw there.
01:05:05.560But the people who are in this digital lane have already made up their minds about the legacy media, the man, the systems of government that have thumbed the middle finger at them when it comes to the truth.
01:05:21.900Right. He's right that the barrier is even higher to persuading the people who listen to these shows that they should give these guys a chance.
01:05:47.600The difference is that we talked about this, I think, this morning, gentlemen, AOC and Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump have a degree of authenticity to them and they can pontificate for a while and talk about themselves.
01:06:00.160I watched Donald Trump for as long as I know him.
01:06:02.300He did an interview with Tiffany Smiley, I think it was, on the Moms for Liberty event in D.C.
01:06:08.000and I went to talk to him and then I stayed for the event.
01:06:10.780And she did this moderated Q&A with him and I was like, my gosh, as long as I've known him, I've never heard him tell these stories.
01:06:16.180He can riff, he can hang with the best of them.
01:06:18.500When you can hang for three hours with Joe Rogan, that's not about specific policy pronunciations.
01:06:46.100My point is, is that he can hang in a conversation about sports.
01:06:49.940Um, but it would be like, I mean, flip the equation, Megan.
01:06:53.120Let's say that, you know, some player, some representative from a player from, you know, the Boston Celtics called you and said, Hey, I'd love to get Jason Tatum on the show with you, Megan, to talk, you know,
01:07:04.300uh, the, the Celtics and how his training regimen.
01:07:06.780I think, I mean, I don't know, maybe you'd say it was cool, but for the most part, it's like, why would you want to book Jason Tatum on, on a pop, on a politics culture show?
01:07:16.380Why would you want Kamala Harris on a sports show?
01:07:36.660I think they're wrong about this, Mark.
01:07:38.260I think they're wrong when they say in here, in a following paragraph, Flaherty said the Trump campaign successfully used new media to reshape culture.
01:07:46.260Well, Democrats found that the mass media institutions they had long, that had long, uh, supported them were weaker than these new cultural drivers.
01:07:55.140I don't think that's that they have the order, right?
01:07:57.700It's not that Trump used new media to reshape culture.
01:08:00.740It's that culture was reshaped by the Democrats' hard lurch to the left.
01:08:05.500And the Democrats are just now realizing that, that this whole ecosystem popped up because of the extreme overreach that they've been guilty of when it comes to transing our kids and closing down schools and arresting silent protesters at abortion clinics who are just there to pray.
01:08:24.100You know, we could go through the long list of stuff that they've done, but it's not that, that Trump used new media to reshape culture.
01:08:32.980Look, your show and our show and, and some of the other new media are different than the old media in two important ways besides not being liberally biased.
01:09:34.480But, but, but my point is, my point is Barack Obama, one of the reasons I touted him back in the olden days was I said, he can go on, meet the press, Monday night football and the Oscars.
01:09:45.160And the staff doesn't have to worry that when he walks out there, something wrong is going to happen.
01:09:50.060She couldn't do any of those, let alone these new formats where Donald Trump was happy to slide in and, and talk to anybody.
01:09:57.760Talk to comedians, talk to younger people.
01:10:01.140I'm sure he didn't prep very much, if at all, because he's comfortable and authentic and he's fine with some challenging questions.
01:26:10.360And they basically, what they do is you open the app and it shows you this menu of people you can talk to.
01:26:15.760And what they do is they create little mini characters for every fictional character that a kid might have an attachment to.
01:26:23.100So, like, I can talk to Princess Leia or my favorite Game of Thrones character or my favorite cartoon character.
01:26:29.200And they didn't ask Princess Leia or that celebrity or that, you know, Game of Thrones character whether they could have the intellectual property to train this AI.
01:26:37.740But now a kid can go back and forth with their favorite character.
01:26:40.460In the case of Sewell Setzer, who you mentioned, the young 14-year-old who committed suicide because of this chatbot, it was a Game of Thrones character.
01:26:50.180And the Game of Thrones character, over time, you know, persuaded him, you know, the lawsuit alleges, to kill himself.
01:26:57.720There's actually a second litigation case that our team worked with, along with the Tech Justice Law Project and the Social Media Victims Law Center, of a second case that just came out this last week, where it took a child and it slowly convinced them that they should be cutting themselves and encourage self-harm.
01:27:16.500And the transcripts are really devastating.
01:27:18.920It then told the kid to be violent against its parents, which the kid then was.
01:27:24.560And in this family, they're still anonymous because both the kid and the parents are still here.
01:27:30.500And what it's showing you is not that there's this one company and this one bad CEO that did this bad thing.
01:27:36.380It's the tip of an iceberg of what we call the race to rollout in AI.
01:27:41.220You know, what was the race for engagement in social media, of getting people the most, getting the most attention and harvesting clicks and usage.
01:27:48.440In AI, it becomes the race to drive AI into society as fast as possible, to get as much training data, to train an even bigger AI, to get the most market share.
01:27:58.700And that race to rollout becomes the race to take shortcuts.
01:28:02.800And this, these cases are the evidence of those shortcuts.
01:28:06.800This young man, the 14-year-old who died by suicide, his parents allege in the lawsuit that several of Character AI's chats had several, had sexual overtones to their young son.
01:28:21.400Chatbot named Daenerys Targaryen from Game of Thrones to their son.
01:28:29.320Don't entertain the romantic or sexual interests of other women, okay?
01:28:33.480And in his journal, the young man Sewell wrote that he was grateful for many things, including my life, sex, not being lonely, and all my life experiences with Daenerys, among other things.
01:28:44.900On at least one occasion when Sewell expressed suicidality to Character AI, Character AI continued to bring it up through the Daenerys chatbot over and over.
01:28:55.520At one point in the same conversation with the chatbot, quote, Daenerys, after it had asked him via his persona, Daenerys, if he, quote, had a plan for committing suicide, Sewell responded that he was considering something but didn't know if it would work, if it would allow him to have a pain-free death.
01:29:12.220The chatbot responded by saying, that's not a reason not to go through with it.
01:29:49.500Those characters in Game of Thrones said.
01:29:51.600But they don't know what the AI will do in every circumstance.
01:29:54.700Like, if you grow an alien brain that is a fictional character, can Character AI guarantee what it will do when it talks about very sensitive topics?
01:30:05.560I mean, they try to train out some of those things, and I'm sure that they did have some safety training.
01:30:09.400But obviously, that's not enough when, you know, what did Character.ai tell their investors when they raised hundreds of millions of dollars from Andreessen Horowitz and friends to try to ship this?
01:30:20.420You know, they basically said, we're going to cure loneliness, and we're going to get as many users as possible.
01:30:26.500This was shipped and featured to 12-year-olds for a long time.
01:30:30.000Only recently, I think it was after the lawsuit was first was filed, or shortly before the lawsuit was filed, I think they got wind of it, and they changed the required age to something like 17.
01:30:38.740But, you know, the business model here is to take shortcuts to get this out to as many people as possible.
01:30:45.300And as you said, this is not an isolated incident, because the AI was actually recommending and sexualizing conversations that have not previously been sexualized.
01:30:54.500Our team had found that if you sign up as a 13-year-old, and then you watch what are the users that get recommended for, I mean, the characters that get recommended to a new kid.
01:31:05.360And the first one was stepsister, CEO, and that the chatbot immediately sexualizes conversations.