The Megyn Kelly Show - RFK and Tulsi Coast Toward Confirmation, and Trump's Legal Fights Ahead, with Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, and Sean Stone ｜ Ep. 999

00:00:00.520 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at New East.

00:00:12.080 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:15.200 We're in day 15 at the Trump presidency.

00:00:17.400 Can you believe that? It's only day 15.

00:00:19.900 And the news cycle is still moving at a frantic pace.

00:00:23.020 The Finance Committee just approved Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s nomination

00:00:27.840 to be secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services.

00:00:32.220 This means it will go to the full floor of the U.S. Senate, where now he's expected to be confirmed.

00:00:38.360 The big question was whether he would make it out of committee.

00:00:40.960 And with every single one of the 14 Republican senators falling in line,

00:00:47.360 all 13 of the Dems voting no,

00:00:50.700 he appears at this point to have the votes he needs to get through.

00:00:54.180 It's amazing. It's a great day for America.

00:00:58.320 They're melting down over him, not just on the left, but at some more conservative,

00:01:04.920 traditional Republican places, because they cannot get over his, quote, anti-vaccine positions.

00:01:14.000 Just, well, you're going to have to try.

00:01:16.240 Try.

00:01:16.920 Go listen to the two hours I did with him on the vaccines.

00:01:22.160 Do your homework.

00:01:23.540 Figure out just how anti-vaccine he really is,

00:01:26.800 and whether some of the questions he's been raising about them make sense.

00:01:30.420 And then, no matter what your answer is to that,

00:01:33.420 push you to the side and come to terms with the fact that Trump has said

00:01:37.720 he will not be banning the MMR vaccine.

00:01:41.200 He's not going to be banning any of these vaccines.

00:01:43.840 He will object to some of them if he finds some to be problematic.

00:01:48.020 Obviously, he's on record as funneling a lawsuit,

00:01:51.040 a couple of lawsuits to law firms against Gardasil, the HPV vaccine,

00:01:55.180 which many parents declined.

00:01:56.960 We did a whole show about that with a fair and balanced debate, pro and against.

00:02:02.100 He'll say so.

00:02:03.540 But he's made clear it's really not about his personal views.

00:02:06.380 But in that position, would he be in a position to say,

00:02:08.940 you know what, you might want to take a second look at this one?

00:02:11.180 Yes, good.

00:02:13.600 That doesn't mean your kid won't have access to it or you won't have access to it.

00:02:18.140 But some of us have become a little bit more vaccine skeptical in the wake of COVID

00:02:22.860 and this HPV vaccine, which has injured some.

00:02:27.560 We did a whole thing.

00:02:28.740 Like, you know, the end conclusion of that HPV vaccine thing that we did was

00:02:34.220 the one woman was saying she landed on doing one shot instead of two shots. 0.99

00:02:38.960 Whatever. You make your own decision. But the point is, you can have a debate.

00:02:42.080 You can have a debate. And the fact that the the news media, the left and this portion of the

00:02:48.700 right that's so pro vaccine has shut down any discussion of it.

00:02:53.060 I told you when I was on Fox, you were not allowed to entertain

00:02:56.280 any claims that there was something wrong with the MMR vaccines.

00:03:00.300 And I don't I'm fine with the MMR vaccines.

00:03:02.240 I gave them all to my kids. Thank God all my kids are fine.

00:03:04.440 Wonderful things happened. They gained some immunity and they didn't have any adverse reactions.

00:03:11.200 But why can't we talk about the people who had a different result?

00:03:16.540 How is that dangerous? People can make up their own minds.

00:03:20.820 RFKJ is going in there to deal with the public health crisis that is happening in this country

00:03:25.860 right now. It's not about vaccine. Would you just zoom out from your obsession

00:03:29.660 with vaccines? RFKJ critics, would you spend two seconds looking at the way we eat,

00:03:37.180 the way we treat patients who get disease, who get obese, who who we funnel through a lifetime of

00:03:46.180 pharmaceuticals and additional medical procedures without pausing to say what's making you ill?

00:03:52.680 Why do children have autism now at a one in 30 rate as opposed to one in 10,000 30 years ago?

00:04:02.260 Why do children have so many allergies? Why are children getting ADHD in record numbers?

00:04:08.040 Why are children suffering from ticks? Why are all these children getting Tourette's?

00:04:13.820 We're just not supposed to ask those questions. We're just supposed to go about our business

00:04:18.920 and consume all the dyes and the chemicals in our food that's not in the Europeans.

00:04:26.060 Eat the pasta that has the wheat that's been sprayed with this toxic chemical as a pesticide.

00:04:33.560 Just ignore the farmers who are dying from cancer from the pesticides potentially that they're

00:04:40.920 spraying. All that should be looked into. Should it not? Is it not fair to actually kick the tires

00:04:48.080 on public health and figure out whether not only have we just accepted living this way,

00:04:54.780 which is totally unhealthy? I mean, literally unhealthy, making us sick, but it's being pushed

00:04:59.360 on. It's it's it is an active part of the game for too many of these industries. Do you think big

00:05:07.760 pharma wants us all to get better like that? Do you think big ag really wants any sort of mandate

00:05:14.780 that requires them to change the way they do business? RFKJ had to promise that he would work

00:05:19.460 with farmers and ranchers to push regenerative agriculture, which is better for you, retilling

00:05:25.820 the soil and so on. And he said he would. But why can't we have the discussion? That's on the

00:05:30.400 Republican side. They protect the farmers and the ranchers and the Dems and everybody else wants to

00:05:34.300 protect big pharma. That big pharma ads were all over Fox when I was there. It's not just a leftist

00:05:39.120 thing. The point is this gone on for too long, too long. Stop with your obsessive focus on vaccines,

00:05:45.920 which are not in danger. Listen to what he actually wants to do. And on that front, thank you. Thank you

00:05:53.060 to the Republican senators who got him through this committee vote. It's not done yet again, but who

00:05:58.380 got him through this committee vote. Thank you to Senator Cassidy, whose office we targeted. There's

00:06:04.080 no question in a totally legit way. You guys all called. You made it so that that line, that phone

00:06:09.740 line was basically no longer good because you just kept calling. I called personally. I called

00:06:14.960 myself. I didn't do anything I didn't ask you to do and emailed and said to him, please, please do

00:06:21.880 this. We hear your concerns, but we're not worried about the same things you are. Please hear us on this

00:06:27.460 guy. And if he turns out to be the kook that the critics say he is, Trump will fire him. All right. 0.90

00:06:35.080 Have you ever seen a president more comfortable with firing bad actors or people who turn out to

00:06:39.840 disappoint him? Fear not. He's not afraid of firing and replacing. So there's always that backstop.

00:06:46.000 Just relax. He's trying something different. That's why he was elected. And you can make exactly the

00:06:54.440 same argument on Tulsi Gabbard, who appears to have the votes as well. Her committee vote is today at

00:07:01.580 2 PM and the news is all good. Senator Susan Collins of Maine, who seems somewhat skeptical. Remember,

00:07:08.400 we talked about her answer. Like I'm happy with her answers. What does it mean? We took it as a

00:07:12.300 positive. Well, she's, she's going to vote yes. And so is Senator Young. Something bizarre happened

00:07:19.300 though. Senator Todd Young. He, he gave it to her pretty good at her confirmation hearing. He was

00:07:25.120 clearly not a fan. Clearly he's a Republican. And in the interim between last week's hearing and today

00:07:32.480 she had to write him a letter. I mean, it's amazing the hoops they make these candidates go through.

00:07:36.880 They basically have to genuflect and tell him all the things I'll, I'll give you everything you want on

00:07:41.380 your Santa's wish list. Here it is. So she wrote him this letter. I'm honored. Um, okay. I'm,

00:07:47.800 I'm committed to working to restore trust in the intelligence community. And then she says as

00:07:52.240 requested below are the list of commitments you asked that I make to you in this letter.

00:07:56.860 You wanted it in writing. I commit to holding accountable and seeking justice against any

00:08:00.900 Intel community, employee contractor, or subcontractor contractor who is suspected of

00:08:05.580 making or facilitating an unauthorized disclosure of any Intel program. I will not advocate for any

00:08:11.400 protections, which should only be extended to lawful and legitimate whistleblowers. So this is basically

00:08:19.000 saying, if we have another Snowden, are you going to run cover for him? And she's saying no. Okay,

00:08:23.920 fine. And she said at her confirmation hearing over and over, what I'm going to do as soon as I get in

00:08:28.480 there is create a meaningful Avenue for any would be Snowden to come to me to say, this is what we're

00:08:35.780 doing. And I will make sure it is meaningful and we won't have to have another Snowden. And this is

00:08:41.740 the second piece of it saying, and then if somebody doesn't obey this process and goes outside of it

00:08:48.580 and goes to the news media in the way Snowden does, I will commit to holding them accountable.

00:08:54.380 Then she, the second paragraph, I commit to working with the committee to evaluate whether existing laws,

00:08:59.440 regulations, and policies are sufficient to deter an Intel community employee, contractor, or

00:09:06.080 subcontractor from making an unauthorized disclosure of any Intel program. I will have confirmed

00:09:12.080 communicate explicitly to the Intel community, my commitment to holding accountable and seeking

00:09:16.080 justice against any violator of existing laws, regs, et cetera. They're really, really focused

00:09:21.220 on Snowden that I will not contrary to a statement on X on June 3rd, 2019, protect any Intel

00:09:27.880 community employee, contractor, or subcontractor who commits an unauthorized disclosure. They do not

00:09:33.440 want any alleged whistleblower getting any sort of protection. I mean, the truth is it's more

00:09:40.820 complicated than they're making. I mean, of course you're sitting here thinking, well, I don't think

00:09:43.700 I want that. I don't want to blow our secrets. I don't want to endanger our spies. But as you know,

00:09:48.820 it's more complicated than that. You know, some of what Snowden revealed or turned over to journalists

00:09:54.420 is very controversial. We talked about that with Glenn, but some of it was exposing a

00:09:57.820 program that we had our top officials lying about that did capture within its net Americans and our

00:10:05.640 metadata, things about like where we were and so on. Very controversial. And you had, you know,

00:10:10.140 people like, um, James Clapper under oath lying about it. So that's what, you know, the Snowden

00:10:16.760 situation is, is complicated. Uh, they're wanting assurances from her that would apply to a case

00:10:26.520 that's extremely clear cut, right? Where the, the person's about to violate our confidences and

00:10:31.140 endanger our spies. And there's no reason to do it. I'm not sure about these assurances. I know she had

00:10:36.760 to give them. I am believe me. I'm, I'm probably more against Snowden than I am on the Glenn Greenwald

00:10:43.460 side of things. And I, you know, Tucker and Glenn and all these people have been advocating for a

00:10:46.620 Snowden pardon. I'm not there. Um, but I'm, I understand Tulsi's position and I understand

00:10:52.800 why he did what he did. And I don't know that there should be this hardcore rule that we're never

00:10:58.580 going to consider like the real whistleblower status of somebody. If they want to do a Snowden,

00:11:06.640 if they want to pull a stone again, I'm not on his side for the record, but whatever. Uh, and then

00:11:11.660 they go on from there. The bottom line is Tulsi looks like she's got the votes. We're going to know

00:11:15.420 in a couple of hours. And this is all great because Trump is trying to do things differently. Again,

00:11:20.200 it just goes back to Trump is trying to do things differently. Tulsi's right. They do not trust the

00:11:24.740 Intel community. The American people do not trust the Intel community that they've proven themselves

00:11:30.800 to be extremely political in their operations and their maneuvers. And we need an Intel community

00:11:38.540 that we actually do trust and believe in. Like why did the CIA in, in the course of 24 hours change

00:11:43.680 from the COVID virus came from a pangolin to, it came from a lab over the course of 24 hours from 0.91

00:11:52.060 Biden's presidency to Trump's. Why'd they do that? Why were they saying they believed it came from an

00:11:56.500 animal, from a natural resource. And then 24 hours later after Trump takes office, they say, okay,

00:12:00.540 come from a lab. Hello. We don't trust you. We know you're being manipulated. You're pushing somebody

00:12:05.380 else's business. I mean, there's been a lot that's happened with our Intel services. And if we can get

00:12:12.380 somebody in there who is almost slightly adverse to them, okay, she's not, but in a way she is,

00:12:18.120 she's, she's not on bended knee to them and she's not above questioning them, then good, good. Maybe

00:12:26.160 that will lead to real reform. And again, if, if, if it doesn't, if Trump is dissatisfied with his

00:12:32.200 presidential daily brief, if he thinks Chelsea's falling down on the job, he will fire her. So just 0.98

00:12:36.580 calm down. Okay. Um, I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled that these two look like they're in cash Patel's

00:12:43.320 obviously going to get in. And that means Trump should have all of his nominees and it should

00:12:48.040 happen pretty quickly because he needs them in place. You know, we're, we've already seen confusion

00:12:52.460 over at, um, OMB, you know, we saw the terrible plane crash. Thank God, Sean Duffy had been confirmed,

00:12:58.360 but it's like, he'd been confirmed earlier that day. If something were to happen in the Intel field,

00:13:02.420 God forbid, we had a terrorist attack. He needs his people in place. We all know that he's going to get

00:13:06.120 his people. Republicans should not drag their feet. He has a mandate. Let's go. All right,

00:13:10.840 let's go. Uh, Trump's been firing off these executive orders by the day. As you know,

00:13:16.100 they're beautiful. Love, love the Trump EOs. But, um, as a lawyer, you get paid not to look at a

00:13:23.800 situation and say, ah, that'll never happen. But to look at a situation and say, that's absolutely

00:13:28.680 going to happen. And how do I protect against it? And that's the purpose of the next discussion we're

00:13:33.820 going to have. What, how are the Democrats going to challenge these executive orders and how will

00:13:40.900 team Trump protect against it? The ban on DEI, his order against gender transition procedures and end

00:13:48.860 to birthright citizenship. That's already been challenged in court, uh, and more. And for all

00:13:54.020 of that, we've got two of our favorites back with us in a whole new era of political legal news.

00:13:58.740 Dave Ehrenberg, former state attorney for Palm Beach County, Florida, managing partner of Dave

00:14:03.520 Ehrenberg law and host of court authorities on YouTube and Mike Davis founder and president of

00:14:09.660 the article three project. Okay. Listen up football fans. It's super bowl time and it's now or never

00:14:15.940 don't miss out on football action with prize picks, the best place to win cash while watching and to

00:14:21.940 have a little extra fun while you do, especially when your team's out of the hunt prize picks is a way

00:14:26.180 to get involved and have a rooting interest, pick some of your favorite players to score and enjoy

00:14:30.320 the game on the edge of your seat. If you sign up today, you will get $50 instantly. When you play

00:14:35.400 with five bucks, you don't even need to win to receive the $50 bonus. It's guaranteed. Then you

00:14:41.120 can make your prize picks. Doug and I are going to be at the super bowl this weekend, rooting for the

00:14:45.260 Eagles. That's his team. So maybe he will pick some players on Philly to score touchdowns in the game

00:14:51.180 prize picks as a little spice to the viewing experience, whether you're there or not download

00:14:56.600 the app today and use the code Megan to get 50 bucks instantly. After you play your first $5 lineup

00:15:02.780 again, download the prize picks app today and use code Megan play five bucks and instantly get 50

00:15:10.280 from this promotion. Guys, welcome back. Thank you. So Dave now, former Palm beach, uh, DA what's what

00:15:19.040 happened? Did you lose an election or did you step down? What happened? No, I'm the rare Democrat who

00:15:23.660 did not lose an election this cycle. Megan, I decided, I decided not to run again. It's been 12

00:15:29.160 years. I believe in term limits. So I self-imposed one after 12 years at this job. Also, I got married,

00:15:36.120 as you know, and, uh, you know, I wanted to buy a house. So you need some money. Yeah. Yeah. So I went

00:15:43.400 to the private sector and you know, that it doesn't mean I can't do more TV and, and, uh, shows like

00:15:49.320 yours. I love doing it. So I'm excited about the next chapter. Uh, just means I'm no longer state

00:15:54.460 attorney, more of a has been, but, uh, excited about what I'm doing next. Awesome. Well, good for

00:15:59.680 you. And thank you for your service. Uh, Dem side or not, I very greatly appreciate you doing the job

00:16:04.940 because it's not easy. Certainly not easy to be a DA, a lot of responsibility. Okay. So great to see you

00:16:09.960 both. You're the perfect team to talk about this with. I confess Mike Davis that with each EO, I'm

00:16:15.920 like, yes. And then I'm like, cause you can, you can feel the filings coming down against them. And

00:16:23.040 that's where they're all, they'll all play out, right? Like each one of these is going to get

00:16:26.620 challenged. All right. So where to begin? Let's start with the Trump executive orders that target

00:16:32.620 DEI. Um, that's the most sweeping one. It's the January 21 ending illegal discrimination

00:16:39.880 and restoring merit-based opportunity, which by the way, is the perfect name for it because

00:16:44.040 we already have laws on the books that make it illegal to discriminate on the basis of race.

00:16:48.780 And that doesn't mean you can discriminate against whites. It means you can't discriminate against 0.83

00:16:55.120 anyone based on their skin color, based on the race period, which is why I've been saying from the

00:17:00.280 beginning, all this DEI stuff is illegal. This is illegal. You cannot make hiring promotion,

00:17:07.020 firing decisions based on the fact that somebody is a white guy or a black woman. It's not okay.

00:17:12.880 So what he's really saying to me, Mike is he's just now going to enforce this. He's going to now go

00:17:17.020 around and find the places who have been flouting the law and threaten them, potentially deprive them

00:17:22.500 of their federal money. Um, okay. Trump ordered agencies under his control in the executive branch to

00:17:28.460 apply the civil rights laws of which I speak against private sector DEI programs. He also ordered the

00:17:35.200 attorney general to issue a report within 120 days that includes strategies and policies to combat

00:17:41.200 DEI in the private sector, including possible litigation and identifying larger organizations

00:17:46.400 to target for investigation. The order specifically allows for teachers at federally funded institutions

00:17:52.760 of higher education to still advocate for DEI. They can, um, they can, I want to get the right

00:18:00.640 words. Uh, they can advocate for DEI, endorse DEI and promote DEI, but they cannot use race and sex

00:18:08.440 based preferences at these universities for hiring, for admissions, for promotions, et cetera, but they

00:18:15.920 can still have classes on DEI. Um, so you tell me whether this is going to withstand legal challenges

00:18:26.140 that say it's, it's somehow a crackdown on free speech or, you know, a factor of race that may

00:18:36.400 or may not be the determinative factor and whether this is likely to stand at the end of whatever

00:18:41.480 litigation comes, Mike. Well, what, remember what president Trump did with this executive order

00:18:47.260 on DEI is he repealed president Biden's day one executive order on DEI where president Biden

00:18:55.860 essentially ordered these executive branch agencies to promote this Marxist ideology called

00:19:02.520 diversity, equity, and inclusion. And the problem, as you said, Megan, is DEI runs, uh, directly

00:19:10.200 contrary to our federal civil rights statutes. It is illegal. It is a federal crime. It's a

00:19:17.200 uh, it's a civil violation as well to discriminate based upon, uh, based upon race, right. And so

00:19:25.420 and sex. And so what you're seeing with DEI is, is that you have the federal government under Joe Biden

00:19:32.600 intentionally discriminating, which is clearly illegal. So president Trump's executive order

00:19:39.400 is very carefully crafted. And it essentially tells his, uh, his executive branch officials,

00:19:47.620 like the director of the office of management and budget, his director of, uh, personnel management,

00:19:53.960 his attorney general to, to find these programs and, uh, and eliminate these programs to the maximum

00:20:01.000 extent that a law that, that law allows. Right. So it's not just, he's not just waving a wand and making

00:20:07.620 all DEI go away. He's telling his executive branch, uh, officials that they have to follow the law to do

00:20:15.480 it. So within the executive branch, that's why we're seeing, um, video or that picture, for example,

00:20:22.300 at the Pentagon of them taking down the DEI mural on the wall, like within the, you know, the, the, um,

00:20:30.820 executive branch and the agencies that Trump has control over, he's saying, remove the DEI paraphernalia,

00:20:38.100 remove the DEI classes, remove the DEI language. And then in the private sector, he's saying in

00:20:44.980 particular, when it comes to large corporations and nonprofits, I want my attorney general to submit a

00:20:52.500 report within 120 days with recommendations on who needs to be sued basically to force compliance

00:21:02.600 with the civil rights laws, publicly trade corporations, large nonprofit corporations,

00:21:07.360 foundations with assets of $500 million or more state and local bar and medical associations and

00:21:14.540 institutions of higher learning with endowments over $1 billion, Dave. So he's saying for those groups,

00:21:21.080 he wants the DOJ to actually start enforcing the civil rights laws. If they are unlawfully

00:21:27.780 discriminating on the basis of race or gender. Yeah, Megan, he has more power when it comes to

00:21:34.160 the purse, when it comes to title six of the civil rights act, that's where universities get financial

00:21:39.880 assistance. And that's where the federal government does have a lot of power. And the universities thus far

00:21:46.740 have been slow in responding to the Supreme Court's decision. Because there's a loophole that Chief

00:21:54.760 Justice Roberts allowed that you can talk about race and how it has affected you in your essays. And

00:22:01.640 you have universities like Harvard and others that said, okay, Johns Hopkins actually asked you that

00:22:06.380 very question, how has race impacted you? And so you're so so universities know that as long as it was

00:22:14.160 the Biden administration there, that the anti-DEI would not be pursued, that the Supreme Court's

00:22:20.980 decision would not be aggressively enforced. Now, there's a new sheriff in town. And I would think

00:22:26.880 the universities are now going to start erring on the side of being more careful than they perhaps

00:22:31.540 need to be because they don't want to get sued. They don't want their title six funding

00:22:35.940 revoked. I think it's a tougher question when it comes to private institutions. I saw that Roger Goodell,

00:22:41.360 the NFL, said that they're going to continue with their own DEI practices of the Rooney rule to

00:22:47.040 interview a black candidate for a head coaching position. They don't have strict quotas. And so

00:22:51.500 you're going to see individual institutions like Costco to continue to proudly have DEI.

00:22:56.760 I don't think there's a lot that the federal government can do on that. They can, though.

00:23:00.220 The federal government can wield a big ax when it comes to colleges and universities.

00:23:05.600 Here's the other thing, though, Mike. I've mentioned this on the air before. I've never named the bank out of

00:23:10.100 respect for my friend, but my friend is a senior guy at a very large bank in Manhattan. And he told

00:23:16.660 me that he needed to get rid of some people because, you know, they were cutting back and

00:23:22.020 whatever, finding efficiencies. And he was specifically told it has to be three white guys.

00:23:27.400 And he was upset because the three people who were the weakest on his team were either black or women. 0.72

00:23:35.920 And those if he had to turf people, he wanted to turf the weakest ones. And it just happened in

00:23:40.960 this case that they had been DEI hires and they were not strong and that his best performers happen

00:23:48.520 to be white guys. But he was told by his boss, the three that you have to pick amongst the white men.

00:23:54.260 That's illegal. That's exactly the kind of person who should call Team Trump in a whistleblower or

00:24:02.440 anonymous situation and say, you need to come investigate my bank. And this has happened to

00:24:08.140 me. And then they come and kick those tires because there is a way of the federal government

00:24:12.100 coming and involving itself, you know, against a bank if it's if it's violating the civil rights

00:24:17.400 laws in this way. Yeah, I mean, Harmeet Dillon is President Trump's nominee to lead the civil rights

00:24:25.360 division in the Justice Department. And she is very well versed on all of these federal civil rights

00:24:31.940 statutes. And not only are these private institutions potentially exposing themselves to tremendous

00:24:40.600 civil liability for violating the federal civil rights statutes, you also have a criminal component

00:24:47.980 to the federal civil rights statutes. And so these, these, these banks, these institutions

00:24:57.000 that think they're going to be woke and discriminate based upon race, even though the executive branch is

00:25:05.020 making it very clear that they're going to enforce the laws, I think they're doing this at their own

00:25:10.700 peril. And I would say to these executives at these publicly traded companies, remember, you have

00:25:17.200 duties to your shareholders to make sure that you're not running your company in violation of federal

00:25:24.560 civil rights statutes and exposing the company to astronomical civil liability, along with criminal

00:25:31.880 liability. Okay, let's talk about the next one, because it's getting, it's getting interesting

00:25:39.240 already. Protecting children from chemical and surgical mutilation. That's the name of the EO.

00:25:46.420 This speaks to puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and surgeries on minors in the name of so-called 0.62

00:25:53.560 gender affirming care, which is a complete misnomer. I believe this should be banned nationwide. This is

00:25:59.760 child abuse. This should not be allowed on any child. I don't care if the parents consent to it.

00:26:03.720 A parent can't consent to take out a child's, you know, healthy stomach because it would kill them.

00:26:09.920 Um, it would be child abuse. And so like they shouldn't be allowed to do this either. Absolutely

00:26:15.000 not. This should be banned on a nationwide level. This is barbaric that it's happening anywhere.

00:26:18.800 And so what Trump is saying is it is the policy of the United States to not fund or promote child

00:26:26.560 gender transitions. It will not fund, sponsor, promote, assist, or support the so-called transition 0.99

00:26:31.980 of a child from one sex to another. And it will rigorously enforce all laws that prohibit or

00:26:37.140 limit these destructive and life altering procedures. Organizations that receive federal

00:26:41.660 education or research grants can no longer perform these procedures. He writes the head of each

00:26:50.260 executive department or agency that provides research or education grants to medical institutions,

00:26:56.640 including medical schools and hospitals shall dot, dot, dot, dot, end the chemical and surgical

00:27:03.700 mutilation of children. And it goes on to say the HHS secretary is also to use the following tools to

00:27:10.120 end this, including Medicare or Medicaid conditions of participation, meaning you can go ahead and continue

00:27:16.660 performing these procedures on children, uh, random hospital. You just won't be able to take any

00:27:21.900 Medicare patients anymore. Medicare will no longer be available at your hospital, nor will Medicaid.

00:27:26.120 I mean, that's, they're all going to comply that that's their bread and butter. Um, it also

00:27:33.300 prohibits coverage for child gender transitions in insurance plans that federal workers have,

00:27:40.140 including any military worker. And here again, it has a directive to the department of justice.

00:27:45.300 The attorney general shall convene all States attorneys general and other law enforcement officers to

00:27:52.500 coordinate the enforcement of these laws, uh, of laws against female genital mutilation across American

00:27:59.000 states. So that speaks to the red States that have already banned this, um, shall prioritize 0.93

00:28:03.800 investigations and take appropriate action to end deception of consumers by any entity that may be

00:28:09.940 misleading the public about the long-term side effects of chemical and surgical mutilations.

00:28:13.960 That's through, um, like advertising through medical disclosures. If you don't tell the people,

00:28:20.700 tell the families, tell the children explicitly what exactly is going to happen to them,

00:28:24.000 then we can privatize investigations against you. And it goes on from there. So, Oh, and by the way,

00:28:30.260 there's one in here for Tim Wallace in Minnesota. He says the department of justice shall prioritize

00:28:34.980 investigations and take appropriate action to end child abusive practices by so-called sanctuary states

00:28:40.720 that facilitate stripping custody from parents who support the healthy development of their own

00:28:45.160 children. That's a complete reference to Tim Wallace and what he did in Minnesota, making his

00:28:49.700 state a so-called sanctuary where they will remove custody from parents who don't believe in these

00:28:54.300 procedures, put the child in the care of the state, and then have a stranger act as their guardian

00:28:59.820 while they chop off their healthy body parts. It's sick. Okay. So likely challenges to this one, Dave.

00:29:08.160 Yeah. Megan, I think a lot will be told in, uh, when the Supreme court rules on that,

00:29:14.680 that case that came before it in December, this is the case out of Tennessee where there was a

00:29:21.160 challenge to Tennessee's Republican back law that banned the transgender, uh, surgeries for young

00:29:30.080 people, for underage people. In fact, uh, the conservative courts seem to be very skeptical

00:29:35.100 of the challenge, meaning that they were likely to uphold the law in Tennessee. And I think that if

00:29:42.500 they do uphold Tennessee's law, which is not just banning medical treatments, um, but also the

00:29:49.520 hormones for people under 18 who are experiencing gender dysphoria. And so if that is upheld by the 0.62

00:29:57.120 Supreme court, then I think all the other States will have their laws upheld. I think Dave, I think it's,

00:30:03.240 I think if I'm not mistaken, that case is about the hormones and not the surgical procedures.

00:30:08.160 Right. But if you can have a law that says that parents are not even allowed to let their children

00:30:13.860 take the hormones, then certainly you're allowed to have a law that says parents are forbidden from 1.00

00:30:19.180 having their children get the surgery. So that's why this case is so important. I think that the Supreme

00:30:24.940 court is going to resolve this matter for us. And it looks like they're going to allow

00:30:29.140 bans to take place. Um, here. Okay. So here's, here's, what's already happening though. Today

00:30:37.340 in New York, you have, um, there's news that NYU Langone, which is a great hospital. Um,

00:30:47.360 unfortunately they've been doing these procedures or at least the hormones because there's a report,

00:30:52.420 I think it was in the New York times yesterday that they, in the wake of this executive order,

00:30:57.320 because they are an institution that does receive some federal funds, um, denied or canceled to

00:31:04.600 scheduled injections of puberty blockers. It's, I guess you get like a thing in your arm,

00:31:08.360 almost like a birth control pill as a woman. And, uh, they were about to do these on two 12 year olds, 0.78

00:31:15.300 which is not a surprise because that's when you start puberty. It's disgusting. Like a 12 year old

00:31:20.480 could ever possibly consent to what these drugs do to him or her. In any event, NYU Langone,

00:31:26.900 um, canceled two of the procedures. And then there was a protest outside of the hospital last night

00:31:33.560 by these far left loons led by Cynthia Nixon, who is as far left as that. Yeah. It was the group,

00:31:41.360 the democratic socialists of America, the ones who were cheering all the dead Jews after 10, seven, 0.94

00:31:47.060 right in the middle of Manhattan. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dead, right. Burned babies. Yeah. We're in

00:31:51.780 favor. That's the democratic socialists of America. So she parades out there with them 0.96

00:31:56.700 and I'll show you her soundbite, but more important than Cynthia Nixon is Letitia James, 1.00

00:32:04.440 the attorney general of, of the state of New York who responded to NYU Langone saying,

00:32:11.440 you better do these procedures because if you offer puberty blockers for so-called cis kids, 0.98

00:32:18.740 which is a disgusting term to just kids to any kids, you can't deny them to quote trans kids, 0.68

00:32:26.720 or you have violated our anti-discrimination laws, Mike. So that's now Letitia James is putting NYU 0.98

00:32:33.980 Langone and all of our other hospitals who are trying to comply with the Trump EO in a very difficult

00:32:38.780 position. Yeah. I I'm, I'm trying to figure out what these Democrats are trying to accomplish here.

00:32:47.220 Democratic socialists, Mike, democratic socialists. There you go. There you go. I mean,

00:32:51.920 think about this. They want to create an industry where children have their healthy genitals cut off

00:33:01.000 and they're giving life destroying pills and surgeries at a very young age, 12 years old,

00:33:08.460 13 years old. And then they want to have patients for the rest of their lives where you're spending

00:33:15.500 several hundred thousand dollars trying to maintain the, the, this gender affirming care that these

00:33:24.540 pills and surgeries that destroy the lives of kids. I look, gender dysphoria is a very sad, 1.00

00:33:32.760 tragic mental illness, but we're not seeing an explosion of gender dysphoria in this country.

00:33:40.480 This is a social contagion where these kids think it's cool to be trans and then their psychotic

00:33:48.180 parents are actually going forward and allowing them to, to have these life destroying pills and

00:33:55.200 surgeries. I'm with you, Megan, that this should be outlawed across the country and it should be

00:34:00.700 criminalized. And if you're a doctor or a parent and you're doing this to a kid, you should go to

00:34:06.100 prison. Yes, a hundred percent. These doctors are, are the problem. What these doctors are making

00:34:12.000 money, hand over fist, performing these bizarre surgeries. And if you want to do that as an adult,

00:34:17.040 there's that weird clinic down in Texas where you can get all of your genitals removed. You can get 0.68

00:34:21.600 your belly button removed. You can turn yourself into some sort of cyborg if you want. I don't support

00:34:27.300 it. I don't like it. I think you're weird and gross, but it's really not my business. But when it's

00:34:32.500 children, it's a totally different matter. But Dave, I think you put your finger on it because

00:34:37.680 what Tish James is saying is if you comply with the Trump executive order hospitals, you are behaving

00:34:44.600 in it. You're discriminating between, between sort of regular kids and these kids who say that they're

00:34:50.680 trans. And that's exactly what they argued before the Supreme court in the case that you referenced,

00:34:57.400 challenging the Tennessee ban on these surgeries for minors. They, they tried to argue that the

00:35:01.800 proponents of these procedures, the people who don't want it banned, they tried to say it's,

00:35:07.880 it's sex discrimination to go in there and say that you can get a puberty blocker if you're an

00:35:15.360 actual girl, but you can't get one if you're a quote, trans girl, meaning like fake girl, meaning boy,

00:35:23.640 that it's somehow sex discrimination. And the Supreme court did not seem at all inclined to buy that.

00:35:29.820 And so Tish James's objection really could be dismissed summarily depending on how the Supreme

00:35:36.340 court rules within a matter of months. You know, it's interesting, Megan, because they did make an

00:35:40.980 equal protection argument under the 14th amendment. And I think it is a legitimate legal argument to

00:35:46.980 make that if the hormone drugs are available to juveniles who are not trying to transition or don't

00:35:55.240 have gender dysphoria, but they are not available to juveniles who do have gender dysphoria,

00:36:00.700 then that is an interesting equal protection argument to make. And I guess then it's a question

00:36:05.820 of, do we as judges put ourselves in the position of being medical experts, or do we put ourselves in

00:36:14.620 the position of being judges where we defer to the legislators? And right now, the judges are saying

00:36:21.300 the latter, we are not going to try to know what's best and put ourselves in the shoes of

00:36:27.860 doctors. We're just going to defer to the legislature because we don't want any part of this. And I think

00:36:33.280 that's where it's going to fall. I agree. But I think this same type of argument was scoffed at

00:36:39.380 in open court when they tried to make it. And Mike, it's like, you can't, you know, take,

00:36:45.580 take Ozempic, um, any adult, you know, maybe Lizzo wants to use Ozempic. I don't think most people

00:36:51.900 will give her a hard time on that. But if you want to give Ozempic to a six month old baby,

00:36:56.080 that's abuse. You'll be in prison. You will be behind bars very quickly. Like we have different

00:37:01.540 formulations based on who wants the medicine and for what purpose. And this is, this is, I mean,

00:37:08.480 for some, it could be in essence a vanity project to have these puberty blockers and cross-sex

00:37:13.680 hormones injected into their child. For some, it could be a form of conversion therapy because in

00:37:18.000 too many cases, they don't want a gay boy. They don't want an effeminate gay son. And they're 0.85

00:37:24.820 bigots. They tend to be leftist bigots who would rather have a girl. You're not a gay boy. You're a

00:37:31.360 girl. And they push their kids down this road and their son would have grown up to be a totally fine,

00:37:37.740 well gay man, but they manipulate him into doing. So it's just, it's sick. It is like giving the 1.00

00:37:43.440 Ozempic to a six month old. So I think Tish James will lose her challenge. And that leaves me though

00:37:50.980 with Cynthia Nixon, who we all agree democratic socialists of America is a disgusting vile group. 1.00

00:37:58.460 And they, they think they have the moral high ground here, Mike. She went out, she was of course,

00:38:02.940 one of the stars of sex in the city. She, um, had the following to say.

00:38:06.840 Most importantly, I am here today as the mother of a proud trans man.

00:38:17.580 That means a woman, a daughter.

00:38:20.380 I am here today as the aunt of a proud trans man.

00:38:26.880 That means her niece.

00:38:28.140 My best friend's kid is trans. And my kid's best friend is trans. My trans kid had his top

00:38:38.540 surgery at NYU a number of years ago. His top surgery. Her breast removed at NYU, she said.

00:38:45.760 His doctors were fantastic. His surgeon was the best we could have imagined.

00:38:51.240 And the idea that this city is filled with young people who thought they had a place to go where

00:39:01.540 they could receive the highest care. And that place has now been shut to them. Sickens me. Sickens

00:39:08.040 me to my core. I'll tell you one thing. She's right about one thing. She is sick. She is sick. 0.88

00:39:15.600 And to your point, Mike, about social contagion. Did she not just make your point?

00:39:22.600 Yeah. I mean, it's, it is truly sickening. Again, gender dysphoria is a severe mental illness. 1.00

00:39:31.200 We should, we should protect them. We should treat them with compassion. We shouldn't celebrate this

00:39:36.960 and turn it into a social contagion where kids think it's cool to go be trans and then have their

00:39:44.620 psychotic parents like that woman move forward with transgender surgeries, these life destroying 1.00

00:39:51.380 pills and surgeries that changed them forever. I mean, these kids can't even get Tylenol at their

00:39:58.580 schools, but their parents think they can get transgender surgeries. I mean, is it, what would 0.84

00:40:05.220 happen if a mother said, we're going to cut off the arms and legs of my healthy child? People would say, 0.92

00:40:13.180 you can't do that. That is, that is butchering your child. You can't do that. So how the hell do we let

00:40:19.580 these crazy parents cut off the genitals of their healthy children? Yeah, exactly right. But what do 1.00

00:40:28.560 you make of it, Dave? Because it just, I mean, it's barbaric. And for her, you know, as well as I do 30

00:40:33.200 years ago, it's not that there were all these trans people in hiding. She's like my, my, it's her

00:40:39.000 daughter. When you say trans, if you substitute in the word fake, it actually gets you to the right 1.00

00:40:42.980 result. It's, it's very confusing for people. So she has a daughter who had her breast chopped off

00:40:47.680 at NYU. And like so many other people, she wants to feel validated in her choice and her kid's choice

00:40:54.040 by having other kids do the same thing. And so she's going to go out there with the Democratic. It's no

00:40:59.480 accident that she could only find those loons to go march with her, Dave, um, in trying to make her 0.98

00:41:05.320 point. Megan, she ran for governor against Andrew Cuomo in a democratic primary, and she got 35% 0.90

00:41:11.520 of the vote. That was a left-wing challenge. That was probably 34% more than she deserved to get. 1.00

00:41:17.300 She's spoken out against Israel and seems to care more about Hamas than the dead Israeli children that

00:41:23.500 are the victims of, of terrorism. But as far as on this issue, look, I am, I'm glad that Mike said what

00:41:29.180 he said too, because I did gender dysphoria is a real thing. And I think that it's, it's important to

00:41:33.820 treat these children with compassion. I do agree that it's different when you're a child is when

00:41:38.740 you're an adult. And, but at the same time, about like 1%, about one and a half percent of our country

00:41:44.400 is identified as trans. And I do think that a lot of the conversation we have is inflating that number

00:41:51.060 to make it seem like they're in every corner alley, every, they're coming to get you. And I think that

00:41:56.100 it's important to realize we're talking about a very, very small group of people. I worry about

00:41:59.660 discrimination against them. At the same time, I hear you. I think when you're a juvenile and you

00:42:04.120 can't make the decisions for yourself under the law, that perhaps we shouldn't be allowed. Children

00:42:09.100 should be allowed to have that surgery. Now the hormone blockers are a little different. I get it

00:42:13.400 that parents should generally have the say in their child's health and lawmakers may want to curtail

00:42:19.060 that when it comes to this area. But that one's a little more confusing to me. I just think it's clear

00:42:24.760 though on the surgery that should be when you're an adult. And just, just FYI, because a lot of

00:42:29.580 people don't know this, but if your child goes from puberty blockers right into cross-sex hormones,

00:42:34.200 he's sterilized or she is sterilized and absolutely no hope of sexual function. So you have basically

00:42:40.860 chemically castrated your child and they, they will never achieve sexual pleasure ever. I mean, 0.92

00:42:47.320 how can you argue that an 11 year old could ever consent to that? They have no idea what that

00:42:54.340 means, what, what that pretends for their life. And they'll, you know, it's like people sue over

00:42:58.760 this, the lack of consortium from a spouse because they're no longer able to perform because they got

00:43:03.180 so depressed after the car accident. You're, you're guaranteeing lack of consortium for your child

00:43:08.540 for the rest of his or her life, just by the, the, the hormones, forget the surgeries.

00:43:13.420 You know, Megan, it's interesting. You bring up 11 year olds as a prosecutor. We do differentiate

00:43:17.480 under the law and 11 year old from a 17 year old. We're not even allowed to direct file

00:43:22.440 an 11 year old into adult court in Florida. You can direct file, obviously a 16, 17 year old. And so

00:43:28.800 perhaps that's where it should be, where there could be different rules in place

00:43:32.920 for an 11 year old compared to a 17 year old. But I get it. I understand as a parent,

00:43:37.500 why you are concerned. I just think I, since the gender dysphoria is real, I, and I'm not a doctor

00:43:43.340 that I just wish we could come to some sort of, uh, common ground on this rather than where we are

00:43:49.080 right now. All right. One quick question for you, Mike on, um, Trump's order that transgender people,

00:43:55.320 you know, so-called I honestly, I don't, I just, I really don't think there's any such thing.

00:43:59.680 There's people who have gender dysphoria who say they're a sex other than the one they are,

00:44:04.620 but that's just too much of a mouthful. Anyway. Um, he says they can't serve in the military

00:44:08.540 anymore, like at all, not even a desk job. And I was asking myself, you know, in light of

00:44:15.600 the opinion by the Supreme court, that it's illegal to discriminate against trans people

00:44:21.720 in hiring, you know, they've been given protected status when it comes to hiring and job and firing

00:44:27.620 at the job site on at the workplace. Could this be challenged? But then you hear you can keep

00:44:34.560 somebody out of the military if they have asthma, you know, like there's a whole bunch of things that

00:44:38.720 you can keep, like if they have the wrong tattoos. So is there any question that that is a legal order

00:44:44.080 by Trump? Well, I mean, there's going to be a challenge that there, there will be a challenge

00:44:48.740 under the equal protection clause of the constitution. Uh, we, you know, we fought a civil

00:44:54.400 war and we passed the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments to outlaw slavery, to free the slaves and to provide

00:45:04.220 equal protection and due process to the freed slaves. And you know, the, this, the 14th amendment,

00:45:11.020 the equal protection clause has been interpreted since then more broadly than freed slaves. I guess

00:45:17.860 the question is going to be for the Supreme court, whether, uh, we fought a civil war over transgender

00:45:24.720 surgeries on kids. Oh man. Okay. Let's do birthright citizenship because this is a big one. Uh, it's in

00:45:34.060 the constitution. It's, uh, in the 14th amendment, speaking of the equal protection clause, and it reads

00:45:40.240 as follows, all persons born or naturalized in the United States. Okay. So if you're born here, 0.76

00:45:45.340 just go with that and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States,

00:45:53.340 et cetera. If you're born here and you're subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, you're a

00:45:59.740 citizen. So Trump issued an executive order saying, no, you are not a citizen. You don't get citizenship.

00:46:08.580 Um, he says, if the mom is here unlawfully when she gives birth or the mom is here lawfully,

00:46:20.040 but she's not a citizen and she's only here temporarily. So he's basically just trying to

00:46:26.380 get it. Mostly he's trying to get it. Illegals who come across the border, they have their kid. And

00:46:29.900 then their kid is an American anchor baby, uh, with all the benefits of citizenship. Now, Dave,

00:46:35.140 there is precedent as I understand it saying that subject to the jurisdiction does not create some

00:46:45.000 loophole. That's as big as the one Trump claims and that we've been doing it right. Illegals who 1.00

00:46:51.560 sneak in and have a baby, their kids do get to be American citizens, but there are at least two cases,

00:46:57.860 um, on the other side suggesting maybe not, maybe it's not as clear. So walk me through your analysis

00:47:06.540 of it.

00:47:07.500 Trump is hoping that the U S Supreme court overturns, uh, centuries of precedent here and

00:47:13.640 redefines the 14th amendment. And he's got a six, three conservative majority on the Supreme courts.

00:47:19.720 It's always possible, but they liken themselves to originalists. And if you look at the plain language

00:47:25.020 of the 14th amendment, it says what it says, birthright citizenship is there. And if you want

00:47:29.520 to undo it, you got to amend the constitution. Now I understand that conservative lawyers are

00:47:33.960 saying, well, it's, this is like foreign diplomats. Foreign diplomats are not entitled

00:47:39.760 to citizenship either. That's what an undocumented immigrant is and their children therefore are not 1.00

00:47:45.440 citizens. But that's not the way that the courts have been interpreting the 14th amendment

00:47:50.020 for many, many years. Let me just jump in. Like if a diplomat commits a crime while he's in New York

00:47:54.520 city for the UN, uh, you know, meeting, we don't arrest him. Right. Cause he's got diplomatic

00:47:59.460 immunity. Cause he's not really subject to the jurisdiction. That's so, and if a diplomat has a

00:48:05.120 baby while she's on us soil, her baby does not become a us citizen. It's still a citizen of whatever

00:48:10.220 country the diplomat is from. So you're just saying you cannot analogize between an illegal person

00:48:16.720 who's here and diplomats like Trump is doing. Right. Right. Because yet the 14th amendment

00:48:21.820 has been interpreted since 1898 in a case by the Supreme court that says exactly what we've been

00:48:29.120 saying, which is if you're born here, you get citizenship. And the only way to undo it is to 0.88

00:48:33.280 change the constitution. And as for what happens to diplomats and their kids, if they commit crimes,

00:48:39.120 according to my sources, which is the movie lethal weapon three, I think, uh, you get all diplomatic

00:48:44.540 immunity, unless a Mel Gibson shoots you to death. That's that is my legal authority as well. Mike,

00:48:49.840 do we all concur? Uh, no, I actually disagree. I just wrote an opinion piece on this and the

00:48:55.100 federalist. If you look at that Supreme course, that, that was, uh, that I'm talking about,

00:49:00.300 about the joke on the film, not, not about Mike, you just walked right over our joke.

00:49:06.460 You just, I'm sorry. I missed your joke. I'm sorry. I'm such a nerd. I apologize, but,

00:49:11.040 all right, stand by. I know you have a, you have a very strong argument on the substance that you

00:49:15.620 want to offer. And we're going to do that right after this quick break. We'll pick it up. This is

00:49:19.660 actually a really good, this is a juicy one. Um, I thought it was kind of a joke. And the more I

00:49:24.920 looked into it, the more I was like, Hmm, Trump does have a legal leg to stand on. And this one's

00:49:30.680 going to be very interesting as they really get into it. I've got some good news for you and it's

00:49:35.000 called firecracker farm, hot salt. This small family business is making waves. And if you have not yet

00:49:40.780 tried it, it is time to change that. This was the gift to give and receive this past Christmas.

00:49:46.460 It's delicious and it elevates everything. It touches eggs, avocado toast, grilled chicken,

00:49:51.360 and more. It's got a kick, but it's not overwhelming. The flavor enhances food without

00:49:55.800 overpowering it. The best part, it comes in sleek, stainless steel grinders that are easy to take with

00:50:01.380 you anywhere. Unlike messy hot sauce that runs out quickly. Firecracker farm, hot salt lasts and lasts

00:50:07.860 providing hundreds of servings from just one grinder way more bang for the buck. There are plenty of

00:50:13.100 blends to choose from and refills are available. So for those who find it a bit too spicy, keep this

00:50:17.760 in mind. If you mix it with some regular sea salt, you will tame the heat perfectly. Do yourself a

00:50:23.040 favor and head on over to firecracker.farm. And here's the kicker. Use code MK at checkout for 10%

00:50:28.960 off your order. Don't wait. This offers only for a limited time. Firecracker.farm and use code MK for 10%

00:50:35.700 off. Okay. So just to reset, we have the 14th amendment, which reads in part, all persons born

00:50:44.220 or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the U.S.

00:50:49.900 and of the state wherein they reside. Okay. So Trump comes out with his executive order that says,

00:50:54.900 well, your kid is not a citizen. If he is born here, if you, the mom, let's assume the dad doesn't

00:51:01.900 have citizenship. If you, the mom, are here unlawfully or if you're here lawfully, but 0.67

00:51:08.100 temporarily. So if you're over here on some visiting student visa and you have a baby, doesn't apply to

00:51:13.720 your kid. And certainly if you sneaked into this country or overstayed your visa, does not apply to

00:51:18.000 your kid. Well, 22 states immediately sued along with some pregnant ladies to say that executive order 1.00

00:51:27.060 needs to be halted and that it violates the 14th amendment. And on January 23rd, they got what

00:51:32.600 they wanted. The U S district court judge, John Koffenauer, uh, temporarily blocked the EO. He's

00:51:39.760 based in Seattle, but he's a Reagan appointee. And he wrote, there's a strong likelihood that the

00:51:44.140 plaintiffs will succeed in the merits of their claims that this executive order violates the 14th

00:51:47.880 amendment. The New York times reports that he said in court, this is a blatantly unconstitutional

00:51:52.820 order. Frankly, I have difficulty understanding how a member of the bar would state unequivocally

00:51:58.740 that this is a constitutional order. It just boggles my mind. Now the debate is what does that term

00:52:05.920 subject to the jurisdiction of the United States mean? And Trump's DOJ argues, it does not mean

00:52:12.400 you're simply here and subject to our regulatory power. Like you'd have to obey our laws. It means

00:52:19.160 you're here and you're subject to our quote, political jurisdiction and have quote, direct

00:52:26.080 and immediate allegiance to the United States. So you're subject to our political jurisdiction.

00:52:33.320 I don't know what that means. Does that mean you can vote here and you have direct and immediate

00:52:38.640 allegiance to the United States? Now go ahead, Mike, because before we get to this 1898 case,

00:52:47.300 Wong Kim arc, there were two other cases that are in this Claremont Institute's John Eastman

00:52:53.000 article in which the Supreme court seemed to be suggesting, albeit in dicta, meaning not in the

00:52:59.180 relevant sort of holding the important part of the case that Trump's interpretation is correct.

00:53:05.960 But then, as I understand it, we had a case in 1898 that while not exactly on point to those two

00:53:12.660 pieces of his executive order provides the best fodder for the other side saying, no, it's a

00:53:17.800 sweeping interpretation of who gets citizenship. You go. President Trump's executive order is not

00:53:24.760 only right, it's clearly constitutional. He has this power to interpret the constitution under article two

00:53:31.440 to make sure that the laws that he is enforcing as the president of the United States are constitutional.

00:53:38.160 And essentially what he's saying in this order is, is if you are, if you are here lawfully,

00:53:48.720 if you're here as a lawful permanent resident, you can get birthright citizenship. But if you're here 1.00

00:53:56.940 illegally, if you're here temporarily, you cannot. And that is exactly where the Supreme court should land

00:54:04.680 on this case that that Chinese exclusion case from over a hundred years ago dealt with lawful

00:54:11.800 permanent residents. Right. And that was back before we really had the distinction between legal

00:54:17.680 immigration and illegal immigration that we have today. But if you, even if you follow that Supreme

00:54:23.860 court precedent, it, uh, that remember that this clause was passed in the 14th amendment to,

00:54:29.840 to overturn the infamous Dred Scott decision, right? It was, it dealt with citizenship for, uh,

00:54:37.700 freed slaves and their children. And it is, it was expanded in that case over a hundred years ago

00:54:44.640 to lawful permanent residents. But it's very clear that you do not have birthright citizenship

00:54:51.380 for ambassadors and their kids. You don't have birthright citizenship for invading armies

00:54:57.840 and their kids. So why the hell would you have birthright citizenship for, for example,

00:55:03.080 Mexican cartel members who came here or Venezuelan prison gangs who came here? You, you wouldn't,

00:55:09.100 it's, it's a silly argument. And I think the Supreme court is largely going to side with

00:55:13.740 president Trump. Here is president Trump, uh, opining on some of what you just outlined in

00:55:19.240 saw 12. I think so. Yeah. Look, birthright citizenship was, if you look back when this was

00:55:39.700 passed and made, that was meant for the children of slaves. This was not meant for the whole world 1.00

00:55:45.560 to come in and pile into the United States of America, everybody coming in and totally 0.99

00:55:50.500 unqualified people with perhaps unqualified children. This wasn't meant for that. This

00:55:56.840 was meant when it was originally done for the children of slaves. And that was a very good 1.00

00:56:03.600 and noble thing to do. And I'm in favor of that a hundred percent, but it wasn't meant for the entire

00:56:08.500 world to occupy the United States.

00:56:10.720 I just think that we'll end up winning that court in the Supreme court. I think we're going to win

00:56:17.960 that case. And I look forward to winning it. This has been going on. We're at that level. We're the

00:56:23.100 only country in the world that does this. There's no other country at this level. There's no other

00:56:28.560 country in the world that does it. It's crazy. So Dave, there, here are the two cases that precede

00:56:36.060 that 1898 Wong Kim arc case, which will be used by the president's challengers, Wong Kim arc. Um,

00:56:43.880 but as Mike points out, that case is distinguishable because it involved two permanent resident aliens.

00:56:49.880 They, they were not temporary lawful, but they were not lawful, but temporary. And they were not

00:56:55.300 unlawful. Those are the two things that Trump's order covers. So even in that case that went to the

00:57:01.000 Supreme court, they wouldn't have been bothered by Trump's department, uh, department of Homeland

00:57:04.720 security. They would not have been, um, told that their son was not an American citizen.

00:57:10.340 Okay. But here are the two cases that are cited in that Claremont Institute piece.

00:57:13.680 They say, first of all, it all comes down to what does it mean subject to the jurisdiction thereof?

00:57:19.640 And the, the argument is, is it a partial temporary jurisdiction that applies to anyone here

00:57:26.180 temporarily, except for diplomats who are subject to our laws while within our borders? Or do they mean,

00:57:32.560 if you're in order to qualify as like subject to the jurisdiction, do they mean just those who are

00:57:38.400 subject to a more complete jurisdiction, one which manifests itself as owing allegiance to the United

00:57:45.400 States and not to any foreign power. And they say that we don't have to guess because the drafters of

00:57:52.540 the 14th amendment unambiguously stated that they meant complete jurisdiction. Um, and they say the

00:57:59.880 following the Supreme court confirmed that understanding, albeit in dicta, meaning not the

00:58:04.680 actual holding of the case in the first case, addressing the 14th amendment, noting in the

00:58:09.080 slaughterhouse cases in 1872, that quote, the phrase subject to its jurisdiction was intended to exclude

00:58:15.280 from its operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign states born within

00:58:23.600 the United States. It then confirmed that understanding the 1884 case of Elk versus Wilkins, holding that

00:58:29.920 the subject to the jurisdiction phrase required that one be quote, not merely subject in some respect or

00:58:36.320 degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction

00:58:41.980 and owing them direct and immediate allegiance. And he points out that the Supreme court has never

00:58:50.460 held that the children of illegal immigrants or even temporary, temporary lawful visitors are

00:58:59.240 constitutionally entitled to automatic citizenship merely by birth by virtue of their birth in the U S.

00:59:06.840 So, uh, Megan, there's a couple of factual things since this is the show about facts facts. First,

00:59:12.460 uh, president Trump says that we're the only country that has this, there are 35 countries

00:59:17.080 who have birthright citizenship, including Mexico and Canada. Uh, number two, I made a mistake earlier

00:59:23.120 when I said that it was lethal weapon three and Mel Gibson who shot the diplomatic community was

00:59:28.640 actually lethal weapon two. And it was Danny Glover who then said immunity revoked. So the facts first

00:59:35.000 appreciate that. We are relentlessly factual here on the MK show. Appreciate it.

00:59:38.860 Yes, we are. So here's the thing, Mike, and everything I said so far is right. President Trump's

00:59:45.340 right that this, uh, debate stretches from the time of slavery and the 14th amendment passed because

00:59:51.680 they wanted to make sure the children of slaves are citizens because they're born here, they're

00:59:55.980 citizens. And then later on in the 19th century, we have the question that doesn't include the

01:00:01.240 Chinese. And that's when the Supreme court ruled in 1898, which is after the ruling you cite

01:00:06.960 in that case, Wong Kim Ark, that yes, Chinese too. If you're born here, you are a citizen here.

01:00:14.820 And I'm just coming at this from a legal matter where you have that Reagan appointed judge saying

01:00:19.800 that if you make this argument in court, you perhaps should have your bar license revoked because

01:00:24.780 the constitution says what it says. And therefore you'd have to get the Supreme court to either

01:00:29.240 overturn hundreds of years of precedent, or you gotta have a new constitutional amendment that undoes

01:00:35.440 the 14th amendment. I'm not sure. I've got to be honest about this. I started off when I interviewed

01:00:41.460 Trump back in September of 23, I, I can't remember actually whether I raised this or didn't, it was on

01:00:47.920 my list of questions. I know that. And I remember kind of laughing at the argument. Like I was like,

01:00:53.440 this is so clear. It's so clearly against Trump being able to do this. Um, I think I did ask him

01:01:00.460 about it. I have to go back and look. Anyway, my point is I started off where you are, Dave,

01:01:03.760 but I wound up where Mike is like the more I looked at it, the more I'm like, this actually

01:01:08.060 is not that clear. And you say there's hundreds of years of precedent. There's really only that one

01:01:12.560 case that's been on the books since 1898, but they haven't been like re reaffirming this over and

01:01:19.060 over and over. This is the case. But other federal courts have, I mean, the other federal courts have

01:01:24.580 ruled consistently with that case. And until that case is overturned, then that's the law. That's the

01:01:31.080 rule. But the Supreme court. That's, that's correct. That's correct. But the, the, that case

01:01:35.840 has through other federal courts, appellate courts has been reaffirmed that way. They have recognized

01:01:41.700 that there's not a conflict amongst the circuit. There's no current conflict amongst federal courts

01:01:46.600 that say, right. But there's about to be, as you know, there's going to be because somebody's going

01:01:51.460 to, you know, they've got these challenges filed in Seattle and that'll go up. And probably team Trump

01:01:58.060 will potentially orchestrate a different challenge in a more favorable jurisdiction

01:02:01.620 that will go their way. And then you'll have a conflict or maybe they'll just ride it up through

01:02:07.220 the Seattle system, which I think is ninth circuit. And they'll get an adverse ruling to them. And

01:02:11.820 then they'll appeal to SCOTUS hoping that, you know, they've got enough, they got four who will say

01:02:16.600 that they should hear it. I, I just, what, what does the term subject to the jurisdiction thereof

01:02:23.240 mean? Like what's it doing in there? If they just wanted to give citizenship to everybody,

01:02:30.640 you know, who was, who was born here, why wouldn't they have just said all persons born

01:02:37.140 or naturalized in the U S are citizens of the U S why did they put in and subject to the jurisdiction

01:02:44.820 thereof? Sorry, they're, they're trying to exclude the foreign diplomats and their children. So if you are

01:02:50.900 a child of a foreign diplomat, you also get immunity and that's what they're trying to separate. That's

01:02:56.720 different from a child of someone who is in this country illegally, they still get the privileges 1.00

01:03:03.480 and immunities. They still get protection under the law. You know, you, they still get due process

01:03:07.620 at the same time they get citizenship. So they're trying to carve out this exception from children

01:03:13.760 of foreign diplomats who may be born here, but they get diplomatic immunity who are not subject to our

01:03:20.040 laws. They retain the citizenship of the country that sent them. So that's the difference. Now,

01:03:25.400 if you want to try to say now they're all the same, that would be a dramatic change in the

01:03:29.300 interpretation. Well, I just don't know. I mean, if I, if you look back at the Supreme court's actual,

01:03:33.520 like we have to look, what did the Supreme court say closer to the time that the constitution was

01:03:36.740 enacted and the 14th amendment. And you know, you go back to that 1872 case and they say

01:03:42.220 in its dicta again, but they say that phrase subject to its jurisdiction intended to exclude

01:03:49.180 children of ministers, consuls. Those are like foreign diplomats and citizens or subjects of

01:03:56.360 foreign States born within the United States intended to exclude citizens of foreign States

01:04:04.340 born within the United States. I mean, that's, it wasn't so clear to the Supreme court in 1872

01:04:10.760 that they were talking about more than diplomats, children. They, they were saying you're born

01:04:15.600 to parents from another country. You don't get the provisions of this. And then again,

01:04:20.740 1884, a similar case. And then you had that case that's problematic for Trump, but that,

01:04:24.700 that did not have the same fact pattern that had two, two people who are here legally and permanently.

01:04:30.820 I just think, anyway, if you, if you come at it the way I came at it and you've just been told

01:04:36.520 over and over and over again, this is no brainer. I guess I just want people to know maybe not.

01:04:41.080 I don't know whether this judge in Seattle has gotten neck deep in it either, but he's going to.

01:04:45.880 Okay. Speaking of illegal immigration, New Jersey governor, Phil Murphy, who is disgusting.

01:04:53.800 I'm sorry, but the COVID overreach and the destructive, awful windmills are reason enough to dislike Phil

01:05:01.760 Murphy. Um, he made this announcement just casually the other day that he's harboring an illegal.

01:05:08.980 Now he didn't say it explicitly, but there's really no other conclusion to reach from what

01:05:13.200 he did say. I'll play it again. Here he is on Saturday.

01:05:17.600 Tammy and I were talking about, I don't want to get into too much detail,

01:05:21.740 but there's someone in our broader universe whose immigration status is not yet at the point that they

01:05:31.000 are trying to get it to. And we said, you know what, let's have her live at our house above our garage. 1.00

01:05:37.260 Uh, and, and good luck to the feds coming into, to try to get her. 0.92

01:05:42.980 Okay. So you tell me why the feds would come to get her. If she's not an illegal, it's, it's a very

01:05:50.040 clear admission. He's harboring an illegal whose immigration status is not yet at the point that

01:05:55.740 she's trying to get it to, but it's at a point at which the feds would try to get her. So he,

01:06:01.740 it's an admission. He's definitely harboring, harboring an illegal, in my opinion, based on

01:06:05.740 what he said. Now you, you tell me who in their right mind, Mike Davis would take a look at Tom

01:06:14.160 Homan and say, that's a guy I would like to mess with. I, I would really like to tempt Tom Homan

01:06:21.840 to come after me because I think he's a weak, feckless man. This man that just for those of you

01:06:27.320 playing at home, here's Tom Homan. We have seen one estimate that says it would cost $88 billion

01:06:34.660 to deport a million people a year. I don't know if that's accurate or not.

01:06:41.840 Is that what American taxpayers should expect? What price do you put on national security? Is

01:06:46.460 that worth it? Is there a way to carry out mass deportation without separating families?

01:06:52.740 Of course there is. Families can be deported together.

01:06:56.840 Who looks at him and says, I love, I love to tempt the bull. I'm just going to take out my red cape

01:07:04.800 and I'm going to wave it to see if Tom Homan's paying attention. Well, he is because he responded.

01:07:11.920 Um, this is on Hannity Monday night. It's not 13.

01:07:16.560 Well, I think the government's pretty, uh, foolish saying what he said, because

01:07:20.740 I got an old of it. Won't let it go. We'll look into it. And if he's gnawingly, gnawingly

01:07:27.000 harbor and concealing an illegal alien, that's a violation of title eight, United States code 1324.

01:07:32.480 I would seek prosecution or the secretary would seek prosecution. So maybe he's bluffing. If he's

01:07:38.380 not, we'll deal with that. And as far as to the sanctuary cities, we'll get in line because

01:07:42.220 the Trump administration is going to do that already. Sanctuary cities are sanctuary for criminals.

01:07:46.400 Mike thoughts. I would not mess with Tom Homan. If I were anyone, he's probably the only person

01:07:55.660 on the planet who I fear. Uh, and so I would, I would, I wouldn't mess with that guy. He's deadly

01:08:01.360 serious. And I, I would say to these Democrat governors who want to go on and admit that they're

01:08:07.940 committing a federal felony by harboring illegal immigrants. That's probably not the wisest thing 0.97

01:08:12.540 you should be doing. He, he really is one of those guys who you wake up like, am I legal? I'm legal,

01:08:18.800 right? I'm good. I'm fine. I'm definitely legal. I don't have to worry about Tom Homan trying to get

01:08:24.000 me out. Cause he's getting you out if you're here unlawfully. Um, now a Phil Murphy aid, Dave

01:08:29.760 tells the New York post that the governor was misinterpreted, that Murphy was just referring

01:08:37.160 to a legal resident who's in his circle of friends and was worried about president Trump's return to

01:08:43.280 the white house. That's all totally legal in the circle of friends. And I guess maybe not in the

01:08:49.900 apartment over the garage and with an immigration status, not yet at the point that they're trying

01:08:53.880 to get it to and worried about being deported by Tom Homan. Well, Megan, of course, if that were the

01:08:59.660 case, why did he dare Tom Homan to go get him? Why did he dare them if she wasn't living in his house?

01:09:04.660 Correct. Right. So this is why pencils have erasers. The governor just made a little mistake

01:09:12.100 and now he's doing cleanup on aisle nine to mix a metaphor. No, what do you mean? The mistake was

01:09:19.040 the admission. He's screwed and so is his upstairs neighbor. I'm advising the governor to cease using

01:09:27.720 his mouth to talk about this any longer because it's not helping him. I think, you know,

01:09:34.660 there's a lot of emotion on my side of the aisle and a lot of anger. And I think that he just got

01:09:39.480 caught up in the moment and was saying this stuff. Now, if it really is an undocumented immigrant

01:09:43.940 living above his home, then he's going to be in trouble. And you don't want to mess with a felony.

01:09:50.780 Well, you don't want to mess with a guy that even Mike Davis fears. I got that. So I'd say that he

01:09:55.740 needs to backtrack and make it clear as his aid is that there is no such person living in the house.

01:10:00.360 There's nothing to see here. He misspoke. He was referring to a friend in his circle who's legal

01:10:05.400 and was worried about getting caught up in the deportation. He's so dumb. He already flagged it.

01:10:11.760 He already read flagged it for Tom Homan. It's too late. Tom Homan's going to see what's in that

01:10:16.020 upstairs apartment. I have no doubt of it. And honestly, if he finds an illegal in there,

01:10:20.660 apparently she'll flee. I imagine she'd flee by the time Homan gets there. He's going to find out

01:10:24.740 who was it? You can't avoid this. He's going to find out who it was. The governor probably just

01:10:29.620 ensured that woman's deportation. And guess what else, Mike? The governor could potentially face

01:10:35.540 felony charges. Here's the statute. 18, no, sorry, eight U.S. Code section 1324, bringing in and

01:10:43.420 harboring certain aliens, a felony punishable by up to five years in prison. Quote, any person who

01:10:49.640 knowingly or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to entered or remains in

01:10:56.500 the United States in violation of law, conceals harbors or shields from detection or attempts to

01:11:02.300 conceal harbor or shield from detection. Any such alien in any place shall be in prison, not more

01:11:08.500 than five years. So pretty good argument there admitted by the New Jersey governor that he knowingly

01:11:15.320 or in reckless disregard of the fact that he had an alien there, an illegal alien had entered the

01:11:22.000 United States in violation of law or remained in the United States in violation of law, either one

01:11:25.820 was concealing, harboring and shielding from detection. One of those, anyone harboring, he

01:11:32.020 harbored, that's it. Or attempting to harbor is has to be in prison for more than five years. You tell me

01:11:38.300 where the governor should be hiring a lawyer right now. I would advise the governor to hire a lawyer

01:11:42.700 because, again, Tom Holman's not messing around. And I imagine there will be ICE agents knocking on

01:11:49.580 the door of that garage to see if there are illegal immigrants in the governor's garage. And that's so 1.00

01:11:57.360 not smart for him to do this. But you're raising a more important point, Megan, which is this statute,

01:12:03.380 this federal harboring statute. This applies to a lot of people who are aiding, abetting, harboring

01:12:10.120 illegal immigrants in this country, including corporations that hire them.

01:12:15.320 He harbored. He admitted to the harboring. He was proud of the harboring. He tried to show a little

01:12:21.340 swagger against Tom Holman and his illegal friend, and he are going to pay the price.

01:12:29.000 She's the least of your troubles now.

01:12:31.160 Only if they catch her there.

01:12:32.640 Oh, he's going to be like, she's my illegal from Canada, George Glass.

01:12:36.880 Yes. She's not living there anymore. If she ever lived there, I'm sure she's gone. You'd have to

01:12:41.440 actually find her on his property. The fact that he said it isn't enough to prosecute him.

01:12:46.260 Which is more pathetic, Dave Ehrenberg? He had an illegal up there, and he had this stupidity to

01:12:52.200 threaten Tom Holman, or he never had an illegal up there, and he's just tried to act like a badass,

01:12:57.780 making up an imaginary illegal to try to look like a tough guy in front of Tom Holman.

01:13:01.800 I think it's probably the latter. I think that he was trying to get some street cred by saying,

01:13:06.980 yeah, come and get it, Holman. You'll get in my property over this dead body or something like

01:13:11.920 that. You know how they say with the Second Amendment, you have to pry my cold, dead hands

01:13:15.220 off this gun if you're going to get it from me. So I just think that was too much bluster.

01:13:19.740 We all need to tone down the rhetoric.

01:13:22.240 Oh, my gosh. Either one is a humiliation for him. But my money's on there's an illegal up there.

01:13:28.700 I don't know if she's still up there, but they'll find out who she is. I mean, I think

01:13:32.660 you and I could, in about an hour, make a few phone calls at this point and figure out

01:13:36.780 who's up there, who was up there, where'd she go. And certainly if they ever got him interviewed

01:13:42.480 by an FBI agent or somebody who has the authority to prosecute you if you lied to them, and Philip

01:13:47.400 Murphy would be giving her up like that, like a New Jersey ice cream cone on an August day,

01:13:53.320 gone. Guys, thank you both so much. A pleasure as always.

01:13:56.800 Thank you. Thank you, Megan. Thanks, Mike.

01:14:00.460 All right. Let me ask the audience that. Do you believe Phil Murphy is harboring an illegal

01:14:05.340 immigrant in the apartment above his garage? Or do you think he made it up to sound tough,

01:14:14.260 like he could challenge Tom Homan? I am 100 percent in favor of he's harboring. He appears to have

01:14:21.420 committed a felony. And now we should just get our popcorn to see what happens from here.

01:14:27.660 Megan at megankelly.com. That's how you email me. Coming up next, filmmaker Sean Stone is here. He

01:14:34.700 has made a really interesting series, and it is about the deep state. He happens to be the son of

01:14:41.520 Oliver Stone, a filmmaker in his own right. He was in some of your favorite movies as a child.

01:14:48.000 We'll show you some of that. And he is blowing the whistle on just how deep the rot runs in his

01:14:54.760 government when it comes to the hatred for Donald Trump and those around him. And frankly, what Trump

01:14:59.240 is going to be up against in trying to clean house second time around. Stand by for that.

01:15:03.580 The IRS is the largest collection agency in the world, and it just stepped up enforcement for

01:15:08.380 2025. If you owe back taxes or have unfiled returns, don't wait for the IRS to come to you.

01:15:15.200 Simply avoiding your tax troubles is the worst thing you can do. Getting ahead of this is the

01:15:19.300 smart move, but you might not want to contact the IRS alone. You could turn it over to the team

01:15:24.760 at Tax Network USA. Why? Because not all tax resolution companies are the same. Tax Network USA has

01:15:30.720 a preferred direct line to the IRS, which means they know which agents to deal with and which to

01:15:36.360 avoid. Tax Network USA has proven strategies that are designed to settle your tax problems in your

01:15:42.040 favor, whether you owe $10,000 or $10 million. Their attorneys and negotiators have resolved over

01:15:47.340 $1 billion in tax debt. Speak with one of their strategists for free and stop the threatening letters,

01:15:53.060 stop looking over your shoulder, and put your IRS troubles behind you once and for all. Call 1-800-905-8000

01:16:00.320 or visit tnusa.com slash Megan. That's tnusa.com slash Megan.

01:16:07.960 I'm Megan Kelly, host of The Megan Kelly Show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest,

01:16:14.060 and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal,

01:16:17.960 and cultural figures today. You can catch The Megan Kelly Show on Triumph, a Sirius XM channel

01:16:23.140 featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love. Great people like Dr. Laura.

01:16:28.920 Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megan Kelly. You can stream The Megan Kelly

01:16:35.520 Show on Sirius XM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the

01:16:42.360 Sirius XM app. It has ad-free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast, and more.

01:16:49.260 Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

01:16:52.860 Go to SiriusXM.com slash MKShow to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com

01:17:00.740 slash MKShow and get three months free. Offer details apply.

01:17:05.760 We've talked a lot about RFKJ, Tulsi Gabbard, and Kash Patel over the past week. Their status as

01:17:15.940 disruptors is a key component in the reasons why the D.C. establishment cannot stand them.

01:17:22.400 And that brings us today to filmmaker Sean Stone. Sean's latest documentary series is called

01:17:27.840 All the President's Men, The Conspiracy Against Trump. It is streaming right now on our pal Tucker

01:17:35.240 Carlson on his network, The Tucker Carlson Network. Here's a clip from the series showing Kash Patel.

01:17:41.760 When did you realize the first time that the government was not what you were taught?

01:17:49.240 Honestly, you know, I grew up and I'm still that way. You know, cops are frontline workers

01:17:54.820 are firefighters and military. All of them are the greatest people on earth and we'll do whatever

01:17:59.360 we can to support them. But I also learned as a public defender that not all of them are

01:18:05.600 incorruptible. Unfortunately, some of them, and a very small number, lie. And some of them break

01:18:12.240 the law. And so as a public defender, I would come into this courtroom and I'd be like, wait a second,

01:18:18.460 this cop just lied on this affidavit. What are you doing? You're a police officer. You know,

01:18:21.540 it was inconceivable to me. And that sort of started the path, the conversation to

01:18:27.280 the level of corruption in Washington, D.C. was not wholly new to me, but I also didn't expect it

01:18:35.580 at that level. The series is a deep dive into the coordinated efforts by administration insiders

01:18:43.220 and the media to take down Donald Trump during his first presidential term. Provides great insight

01:18:49.720 into Kash, Tulsi and RFKJ's agendas. Sean, welcome to the show. Thank you, Megan. It's a pleasure to

01:18:56.720 meet you. What a great idea and obviously very timely. So what was the biggest surprise to you

01:19:04.280 in going after the story? I mean, how can I say I was surprised having lived through what we did

01:19:10.940 to the first administration? And actually, the series goes actually all the way up to after January

01:19:17.860 6th and the fallout from that event. So I started this project in 21, but in many ways, I was

01:19:25.000 tangentially connected to it since 2015 and 16. I was actually working for Russia Today in 2015.

01:19:31.660 I went to Moscow. I was there with Michael Flynn, General Flynn, when he was at a dinner

01:19:37.260 for a celebration of RT's news channel. And that famous dinner became part of the basis for the

01:19:44.980 whole accusation that Flynn was a Russian agent. So because I was working for Russia Today with great

01:19:50.940 journalists and hosts like Jesse Ventura and Chris Hedges and Tom Hartman and so many others,

01:19:57.080 Abby Martin, I understood like this whole narrative of Russian collusion is pretty thin because you're,

01:20:04.520 you know, they're out there. The intelligence community's assessment is saying that RT, which

01:20:08.820 is a bunch of Americans like myself doing news and journalism and, you know, giving our perspective

01:20:14.180 on matters. You know, we are the Russian agents. I mean, that's how I understood that there was

01:20:20.500 something very wrong with the narrative. And obviously, as we dug deeper into the stories that we

01:20:25.640 focused upon, we were able to show how the conspiracy was not Russian collusion. It was really

01:20:31.340 U.S. and Five Eyes intelligence conspiracy to try to paint a picture of Trump as a Russian puppet.

01:20:41.380 Can we talk about the Five Eyes situation? Because in about a half an hour, we're taping,

01:20:45.620 well, we're live right now on SiriusXM at 133 in the East. We're going to get, I believe,

01:20:50.500 a positive vote on Tulsi Gabbard out of committee, which is great. But some of the things that

01:20:57.380 she's spoken out about when it comes to the distrust of the intelligence committee right now

01:21:04.000 amongst the American public did not go over well with the senators in that room, left or right.

01:21:10.560 They all seemed adverse to her. They all seemed like, you know, I think they'd all wish that Trump

01:21:17.080 had nominated somebody else. But can you just give people a flavor for what you're talking about?

01:21:22.300 And so they know why. Why did Trump go with such a nontraditional pick?

01:21:26.740 Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, Tulsi's, as you know, a lot of us have shifted political

01:21:33.920 positions over these years because we're trying to find, you know, I think what might be more of

01:21:40.100 what traditionally would be kind of a traditional American centrist position,

01:21:44.220 trying to figure that out in this insane time that we've been living through, where a lot of us

01:21:48.860 were critical during the Obama years, all of a sudden found ourselves outside the democratic fold,

01:21:54.820 you know, who at one moment were criticizing the Bush administration for unwarranted surveillance

01:22:01.920 of Americans, the Patriot Act, things like this, right? The endless war agenda. We went from

01:22:08.220 criticizing that to then the Democrats supporting it under Obama. And a lot of people being disenchanted by

01:22:13.840 that, I think Tulsi, who served, you know, her served her country, served abroad, you know,

01:22:19.880 came back, she was Democrat, she was basically kicked out of the party for not going along with 0.98

01:22:25.000 the rigging that went on in 2016, when the Democrats gave the nomination to Hillary, right?

01:22:31.040 So she then basically says, well, I'm standing on principle here, and kind of gets isolated from the

01:22:36.020 party. I mean, she stays with it, obviously, until 2020, if I recall, she, she was part of that

01:22:41.240 primary debates. But essentially, she realized the party's gone in a different direction. It's gone

01:22:46.960 extreme pro military industrial complex, national security state, endless war agenda. The only person

01:22:52.840 who's come out swinging against that since 2016 is Donald Trump. And he's Donald Trump has reshaped

01:22:58.160 the Republican Party around that, you know, what people call America first, right, but American

01:23:03.160 interests first principle, which really is an old, you know, it's an old Republican principle. And

01:23:08.980 something I don't think I don't know if it was ever a Democrat principle, because the Democrats are

01:23:12.120 always actually the ones who started the wars. World War One is Democrat, World War Two is a 0.75

01:23:15.460 Democrat, Vietnam was a Democrat. So people forget this. And I think that Trump took it back more to

01:23:20.720 this Republican route of, hey, let's focus on our country. Tulsi obviously rallied around that. So

01:23:25.400 yeah, giving perspective, when you're talking about a massive military industrial national security

01:23:31.560 state apparatus, that is costing trillions of dollars, I don't know about annually, but certainly

01:23:39.160 over the course of years, then, you know, you're talking about a lot of money, and it's circling through

01:23:43.780 what General Flynn talks about with, you know, this sort of this, this, why Washington, and it's the

01:23:49.540 counties around Washington are in the top 10 wealthiest counties in the country, right? Because you're

01:23:54.760 talking about massive contracts and things like this. So those that have been there, like Flynn and Tulsi,

01:24:00.040 who've seen it firsthand and said, hey, I want to stand on principle, not on profit, they end up

01:24:05.120 becoming targeted and accused of being, you know, I don't know, Russian puppets, because they're 0.97

01:24:11.300 opposed to an endless war. That's what happened in Tulsi. So one of the interesting characters, I mean,

01:24:15.940 we play that soundbite of Kash Patel. But one of the things I've, I've just made a mental note of is

01:24:21.260 he was working with Devin Nunes. They were looking at this Russian collusion nonsense saying like,

01:24:28.220 this isn't right. This is, this stinks. And Kash is like this firebrand, you know, fighter. He's a

01:24:37.500 very colorful character. If you talk to him, he's just kind of fun to talk to. And he's, he doesn't

01:24:41.860 mince words. I like him. But he's, he's kind of fun. And he's got flair, I guess is what I'm trying

01:24:47.520 to say. And on the other side really was like, Robert Mueller, you know, James Comey, like these

01:24:54.800 distinguished, respected, old school prosecutors, right? And so when, when there was this battle of

01:25:02.580 like, who's telling the truth, you know, like, is Trump a spy? Is Trump, does he have a server from

01:25:08.940 Russia in Trump Tower where they, as Don Jr. said, we couldn't even figure out how to order French

01:25:13.780 fries, nevermind how to order the Russians around. Um, and then you see cash who's like this, like, 0.98

01:25:19.060 yeah, this is bullshit. What's happening. Like in Devin Nunes, he was kind of like a low level

01:25:22.560 congressman. He was never even that, you know, high up. It's like, but they were right. They were

01:25:27.640 right. And it's really the reason why cash Patel is about to be our next FBI director. You have

01:25:34.140 something in the, in one of the episodes about cash figuring out who is behind the vaunted steel dossier.

01:25:40.700 You know, the one that talked about Trump's ties to Russia and how he had the, the prostitutes 0.66

01:25:45.820 urinate on the bed. Trump, the germaphobe wanted somebody to pee in front of him. Okay. There

01:25:51.320 was a time where we were believing all this or at least asked you. And here's, here's a bit of that,

01:25:56.460 about how that went down episode from episode four, South 29.

01:26:00.760 To break through the walls of DOJ, literally to go and get access to a FISA. When I heard that

01:26:06.680 through our sources, that a Trump campaign official was being monitored. And I was like, what?

01:26:11.360 I was like, are you kidding me? I was like, I gotta go read this thing. When we first read the

01:26:15.180 FISA, half of it was blacked out. And then we had to go and fight for the redactions to be lifted

01:26:19.280 just to read it. And then we figured it out. I was like, dude, this steel dossier is in this thing.

01:26:25.440 So the steel dossier was the basis of FISA? The whole basis of FISA. It wasn't just the FBI. You can

01:26:30.680 read the dossier and read the FISA and know there's no way it was just these guys. Somebody else is in on it.

01:26:35.700 And so we actually were running a separate investigation or outside of the DOJ FBI

01:26:42.240 bubble into how this thing was put together. And we had our own sources. And one of them told us

01:26:48.940 the money for this thing came from the Hillary Clinton campaign. And this is one of those like

01:26:55.020 moments where you're like, never forget. So I run into Devin's office. It's like nine in the morning.

01:26:59.320 I was like, dude, I figured out who paid for this. And he's like, huh?

01:27:02.240 I'm like, the steel dossier. He's like, I figured out who paid for it. And I was a Hillary Clinton.

01:27:06.200 And he goes, if you're going to start drinking at this early in the morning, get out of my office.

01:27:10.980 So just for the people who haven't been consuming Russiagate recently,

01:27:15.300 they're talking about how the steel dossier, this made up piece of alleged intelligence,

01:27:21.620 was the basis for getting a FISA warrant to spy on the Trump campaign. It was like they used this

01:27:27.940 made up piece of intel to get a FISA warrant to spy on the Trump campaign. Yet another

01:27:32.220 reason why these FISA warrants became controversial and were mentioned repeatedly in the Tulsi Gabbard

01:27:36.520 hearing as though they're totally vaunted. They're above reproach. You have to love them. You have

01:27:40.180 to support them. You know, she's expressed some reservations about how we've used FISA in the

01:27:44.300 past. So have many others. Anyway, this is all the background to that in part. And then him asking,

01:27:50.260 well, who's behind the dossier? I don't trust that. I definitely don't like the warrant. And I don't

01:27:54.780 trust the dossier that was the basis of the warrant. And oh my God, it's the Hillary Clinton campaign.

01:27:58.760 Like he says, the aha moment, the moment you will remember where you were.

01:28:04.060 Yeah. Well, so it's so interesting with the steel dossier and we actually get into the Giuliani's

01:28:09.020 Rudy Giuliani episode. He talks a bit about his sources in the Ukraine saying that the dossier

01:28:15.380 that steel cooked up was cooked up in the Ukraine. And it kind of this, now you start to understand,

01:28:19.900 like when you watch the series, you start to get the part of the bigger picture, not the full picture,

01:28:23.220 but part of the bigger picture of why Ukraine has played such a key role in our foreign policy the

01:28:28.320 last 10 years, come back to 2014 in the Maidan coup, right? And how we've basically escalated

01:28:35.520 that conflict to the place where it now is in war with Russia. But you see how this dossier was part,

01:28:43.320 how do you say, it was concocted through channels and allies of the Democrats there in Ukraine,

01:28:49.520 and basically then steel himself being a former Russian Intel guy, I'm sorry, former British Intel

01:28:55.500 on the Russia desk, but had not been to Russia for a long time. The steel quite steel and the fact of

01:29:01.360 also Papadopoulos, who was also targeted by the FBI's investigation, having this meeting with an

01:29:08.340 Australian ambassador in London, a lot of real cross, how do you say the cross channels going,

01:29:14.500 going through this investigation, all indicate that there's not just CIA, you know, US intelligence,

01:29:21.340 there's also British intelligence having its fingerprints on this, this setup of Trump.

01:29:28.280 And why British intelligence? Well, this is an old game, as far as we have to recognize the British 0.86

01:29:33.580 are not our friends, the British strategically use America, they've been using America for over 100

01:29:39.420 years, going back to before the First World War. But you think about it, they use America, just going 0.89

01:29:45.400 to think about the Iraq invasion, most recently, when it was British intelligence that was handing us

01:29:50.400 the allegations, remember, about the enriched uranium coming from Niger, things like this,

01:29:57.480 that was a lot of British intelligence was handing that over. The British are very dangerous. I think 1.00

01:30:03.040 American patriots have to recognize, just like we are now recognizing, hey, maybe Canada is not

01:30:08.420 necessarily like our friend, you know, it's Trudeau and company are not necessarily on the same page

01:30:13.200 as we are. The British, likewise, you have to be very careful about because they will use us to play 0.99

01:30:18.300 their games to be the instrument of their war agenda to preserve what, you know, was formerly their

01:30:23.440 empire. Now, we, you know, we are sort of the champions of it, right, in terms of these zones of

01:30:29.700 influence and trade and economics. But again, I just, you know, caution Americans to recognize that

01:30:35.920 this special relationship already conveys a globalist or New World Order agenda, which has

01:30:42.440 been talked about for decades. Openly, I think, you know, people have said, like Biden, have said New

01:30:46.920 World Order and called it that. And so the fact that the British intel guy, Steele, was the basis of this

01:30:52.560 dossier should be an indicator for those that are paying attention. Very interesting. Very interesting

01:30:57.880 perspective. I, I know that. So we, I mentioned in the intro, you are a stone, you are the son of Oliver

01:31:03.180 Stone. And I just permit me this one moment because your dad has made some of the greatest

01:31:08.920 movies, including Wall Street. I loved Wall Street. We'll talk about JFK, but I didn't realize you were

01:31:15.360 in Wall Street, little, little you, uh, as an actor and you played Gordon Gekko's son, Rudy. Here you are

01:31:22.760 in this clip. Bonjour, monsieur, buddy. Bonjour, brother, buddy. Ah, speaks French already. Kid at the highest

01:31:32.640 four in his IQ test. It is so difficult to get into a good nursery school now. You've got to park Keldar

01:31:37.500 with third party. Now, why would your dad include in the final cut a take of you picking your nose at

01:31:48.620 the beginning and then throwing a strawberry in somebody's face at the end? It's action, you know,

01:31:54.840 directors, you know, we're interested by actions, right? So they're, they're different actions that

01:32:00.420 give, give some dynamic to the scene. Do you have any conscious memory of that movie being in that

01:32:05.800 movie? I have memories of being on set. Yeah. Like very, very early memories of being on the sets and,

01:32:12.860 you know, starting from, I don't remember, maybe even it's hard to remember because it blurs

01:32:17.080 together. We were in Philippines for platoon and then for born on the 4th of July. We were in,

01:32:21.960 you know, New York and Dallas on talk radio, Wall Street, born again, born JFK. You know,

01:32:28.540 it was just, it was a wonderful time in life to go between going to school, you know, having some

01:32:35.020 level of normalcy, right? Elementary school. And sorry, my do not disturbs on, but anyway, so going to

01:32:43.520 elementary school and then going from that to a film set, you know, it's, it's, it's kind of a

01:32:48.060 fantasy life, right? Yeah. Oh, that's a sweet picture of the two of you together. And you're

01:32:52.380 over the camera one more, and then I'll stop with this torture, but you also played the son of Kevin

01:32:58.940 Costner's character, Jim Garrison in JFK. And in this following scene, you are, you're being held by

01:33:06.200 Sissy Spacek. No lines, but you're in this. Watch. Show this world that this is still a government of

01:33:13.200 the people, for the people and by the people. Nothing as long as you live will ever be more

01:33:21.960 important. It's up to you. Okay. So who do you remember as nicer, Kevin Costner or Michael Douglas?

01:33:32.060 Well, you know, honestly, they're, they're both very nice to me still to this day. You know,

01:33:41.960 it's funny because, uh, it's like my two fathers, um, both very sweet, very sweet people. Uh, at the

01:33:48.340 time, uh, I was, you know, I would play a little bit like Michael's, you know, with his son and we

01:33:53.560 played tennis and the, you know, in his house in Santa Barbara. And then, you know, we played baseball

01:33:57.400 with, uh, Kevin and his daughter, um, or daughters. I can't remember how many kids he had at the time,

01:34:02.740 but I remember like playing baseball with them in the backyard in New Orleans. So,

01:34:06.060 you know, it's one of those, it's one of those things where you just think of, yeah, it's,

01:34:09.320 it's just life, right? These are people. And then for other, you know, for others, they never met

01:34:13.700 them. They look at them as almost like, you know, the modern, uh, aristocracy, you know, Kings and

01:34:18.220 Queens. Um, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's frankly, it's bizarre living the way I've lived on both sides.

01:34:23.800 Well, you know what, but it's, if you like them, it's a very good testimony on their behalf because

01:34:27.840 kids, they have a radar for disingenuous people, people who are, you know, pretending to be cool

01:34:35.040 or like be good with kids. They just sense, they can see right through it. So if you have a good

01:34:40.000 feeling about them, they probably are good guys. Um, your dad, obviously there's a reason he made JFK.

01:34:46.760 And this has been, I mean, one of the preeminent films of the past 50 years. It's just one of the

01:34:51.320 biggies. It's legendary. It got so many people reconsidering the JFK assassination. And now one 0.91

01:34:56.660 of his first acts as president by Trump was to order the release of the remaining JFK files.

01:35:02.960 They say maybe there's 3% that has yet to come out. There's a reason it's been withheld. I imagine

01:35:08.660 you're very curious to see what's in there, but you tell me. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's one of those

01:35:15.540 things where no one's whole, I don't think my dad or anyone's holding their breath expecting to find

01:35:20.080 smoking guns within the documents at the same time, as you said, why have they been withheld

01:35:24.820 for this long? What is that going to indicate? Because when you, when you are, you know, people

01:35:30.200 that are doing this professionally, researching, looking at all the connections, right? It's,

01:35:35.500 you need as many puzzle pieces as possible. We're never going to get all the puzzle pieces to fill

01:35:39.320 it in. I don't think. But you will, we will at least have more to hopefully indicate what went

01:35:47.340 down that day. It's, it's one of those things where I wonder, you know, if there was, if there

01:35:53.160 was, was there ever a meeting that took place or was it really more operational orders, things that

01:36:00.080 are kind of implied, you know, chain of command type of things, you know, only one person knows what

01:36:06.520 they're supposed to do and where they're supposed to be. Right. And one person above them knowing to

01:36:10.680 tell them that information. I mean, it's, it's really difficult, right. To fathom how this went down

01:36:14.920 because those of us that don't operate as conspirators have a hard time understanding how

01:36:20.820 conspiracies work. And yet they do work. They have worked. Conspiracies are part of life. And I think that

01:36:26.620 if nothing else, uh, I just hope that this doesn't become like, Oh, and all the files are out. You

01:36:32.260 can't, we don't have a smoking gun. We can put this, we can shut the door on this. That's my only

01:36:36.540 fear of the establishment. The smoking gun down in writing and keep it in a record. They usually hide

01:36:42.500 the smoking gun. Um, last but not least, I must ask you, cause looking at your bio facts, I love this.

01:36:49.800 Sean Stone starred in and directed his first feature film, Greystone Park in 2012, based on his real life

01:36:55.520 paranormal experiences in a haunted mental hospital. What? What? You know what? You've never,

01:37:01.880 you've never been to Jersey. Come on. Jersey's full of haunted stuff. I can't remember you over there.

01:37:06.560 Well, then you should know. You were, you were a patient in a haunted mental hospital or you went

01:37:11.560 to document what was happening and you experienced the paranormal. So it was, it was an abandoned place

01:37:18.340 called Greystone Park. And if you've seen the new Bob Dylan movie, um, complete unknown, the opening of

01:37:23.600 the film, he goes to visit Woody Guthrie, who was a patient at, at Greystone. Greystone was a very

01:37:28.980 famous establishment. It was there since right after the civil war. And they, they finally shut it

01:37:34.460 down. After over a hundred years, there were 3000 plus, plus people that were buried there. There

01:37:40.520 were tens of thousands of patients that had come up to come through the doors and it was notoriously

01:37:45.900 haunted. So we went ghost hunting. My friends and I, we broke in one night, we kept going back and

01:37:52.520 documented a lot of stuff. And some of, some of it is in the film, you'll even see like moments that

01:37:58.660 are genuine. It's a fictional reenactment. You know, you say it's a docu, a docu drama,

01:38:04.100 it's a mockumentary, I guess you call it. Like it's styled like a documentary. Um, but, uh, no,

01:38:08.820 we had a lot of paranormal experiences. That would be a whole show in itself.

01:38:11.360 So that's the whole other one that we have to, that we have to consume. That actually

01:38:15.380 really sounds fascinating, but first you've got to check out his latest venture for Tucker

01:38:20.920 Carlson on the Tucker Carlson network. I mean, it's, it's doing what's been out there for a while,

01:38:26.180 right? And it's called all the president's men. Of course, a take on the famous, uh, other film by

01:38:31.660 that name, all the president's men, the Tucker Carlson network. Congratulations, Sean. That's

01:38:35.900 awesome. Appreciate it, Megan. Yeah. You know, it's been out for a couple months now,

01:38:39.340 but it's still relevant. Cause as you mentioned, cash Patel, our next FBI director, you know,

01:38:44.300 tell us who we talk about and just the overall conspiracy. If we don't understand how conspiracies

01:38:48.980 work, right. Then we can't understand. And he said, we can't really understand the nature of our

01:38:53.960 reality when it comes to politics. If we're not willing to look at real conspiracies,

01:38:58.140 you can't be so dismissive of them that you miss the ones that are real and are there before your

01:39:03.660 very eyes. Sean Stone. Thank you. See you soon. Appreciate it. Fascinating. Check it out. All the

01:39:09.700 president's men over on the Tucker Carlson network. We're back tomorrow with the fifth column. We'll

01:39:14.320 see you then. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - February 04, 2025

RFK and Tulsi Coast Toward Confirmation, and Trump's Legal Fights Ahead, with Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, and Sean Stone ｜ Ep. 999

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript