The Megyn Kelly Show - Rittenhouse Jury Deliberates and Media's Disastrous Coverage, with Gov. Chris Christie, Robert Barnes, Andrew Branca, and Richard Baris

00:00:00.000 When I found out my friend got a great deal

00:00:02.160 on a wool coat from Winners,

00:00:03.760 I started wondering,

00:00:05.440 is every fabulous item I see from Winners?

00:00:08.560 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans.

00:00:10.900 Are those from Winners?

00:00:12.780 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings?

00:00:15.260 Did she pay full price?

00:00:16.600 Or that leather tote?

00:00:17.620 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:00:18.840 Or those knee-high boots?

00:00:20.280 That dress?

00:00:21.060 That jacket?

00:00:21.740 Those shoes?

00:00:22.780 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:00:25.720 Stop wondering.

00:00:26.980 Start winning.

00:00:27.920 Winners.

00:00:28.500 Find fabulous for less.

00:00:30.580 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:32.520 Your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:42.060 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.

00:00:43.780 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.

00:00:45.320 We are officially on day two of Verdict Watch.

00:00:48.760 As the jury in the Kyle Rittenhouse case

00:00:50.720 continues its deliberations.

00:00:53.480 They resume this morning at about 9 a.m. Central.

00:00:57.500 And so they've been at it for about two hours now today,

00:01:01.020 about eight hours yesterday.

00:01:03.460 Jury of seven women, five men.

00:01:05.880 So far, no verdict.

00:01:07.980 The pressure on these 12 people is enormous

00:01:11.020 and somewhat unfair.

00:01:12.960 We're all called to serve as jurors.

00:01:15.500 I remember when I went down to the New York City jury service,

00:01:20.080 even they had a video there showing us

00:01:21.880 that even Chief Justice John Roberts has to go through it.

00:01:25.100 Can you imagine voidering John Roberts?

00:01:27.520 But it's everyone's civic duty.

00:01:29.540 What case you get on, if you get on,

00:01:31.840 it's largely beyond your control.

00:01:33.500 These are not legal experts.

00:01:34.720 These are regular Kenosha residents

00:01:36.840 who are moms and dads and grandparents

00:01:38.500 and so on, just like you.

00:01:40.340 They have been asked to take their common sense

00:01:42.360 into that undoubtedly drab deliberation room,

00:01:45.600 typically stocked with little more than coffee,

00:01:47.540 if that, and come to some sort of a decision

00:01:50.120 in a case that has riveted and deeply divided the nation.

00:01:54.280 I wish them luck and wisdom,

00:01:56.140 and I'm praying for all of them.

00:01:58.460 Unfortunately, that is not how everyone feels,

00:02:00.940 as people are already amping up the pressure on this jury

00:02:03.760 with totally irresponsible messaging in the press

00:02:06.800 about how a not guilty verdict

00:02:08.300 is essentially a vote for white supremacy,

00:02:10.520 even though the men here that were shot

00:02:12.780 were all white, as is the defendant.

00:02:14.640 A week ago, the judge had to alert the jurors

00:02:17.940 that someone was caught surreptitiously

00:02:19.780 videotaping them, which is not allowed.

00:02:23.240 He reassured the jury that the tape

00:02:24.720 had been confiscated and deleted.

00:02:27.120 The jury, which is not and has not been sequestered,

00:02:30.480 is no doubt aware that some 500 National Guard troops

00:02:33.380 have been placed on standby in Kenosha

00:02:35.840 as a city on the edge awaits their decision.

00:02:40.260 None of this is supposed to matter in deliberations,

00:02:42.740 but these folks are only human.

00:02:44.640 And it will matter.

00:02:46.020 And their challenge is to decide the case

00:02:48.060 on the law and the facts,

00:02:49.900 irrespective of what may follow.

00:02:53.260 It's good that the governor of Wisconsin,

00:02:55.100 Democrat Tony Evers, is mobilizing the National Guard.

00:02:58.200 It is also about 15 months too late.

00:03:01.600 And as we wait for this verdict,

00:03:03.220 it occurs to me that Governor Evers,

00:03:05.220 President Biden, Vice President Harris,

00:03:07.600 and the dishonest corporate media,

00:03:09.620 all, all have real responsibility

00:03:12.640 for how we got here this day

00:03:14.680 and for what unfolded in Kenosha in August of 2020.

00:03:20.320 The events that landed Kyle Rittenhouse in this courtroom

00:03:22.960 began on August 23rd, 2020,

00:03:25.580 in a case not involving Rittenhouse at all.

00:03:28.620 On that day, police were dispatched

00:03:30.400 to the home of the on-again, off-again girlfriend

00:03:33.080 of a black Kenosha resident named Jacob Blake.

00:03:37.400 The woman called 911,

00:03:38.860 alleging that Blake had taken her keys

00:03:40.420 and was refusing to give them back.

00:03:42.680 The officers were informed

00:03:43.760 that there was an outstanding warrant

00:03:45.060 for Blake's arrest.

00:03:47.140 Margo Cleveland, by the way,

00:03:48.340 detailed this incident very well

00:03:49.560 in a piece dated August 31st, 2020,

00:03:51.400 in The Federalist.

00:03:52.000 When the cops arrived,

00:03:54.620 Blake struggled with them.

00:03:55.960 Two separate officers discharged their tasers

00:03:58.420 at Jacob Blake,

00:03:59.460 but failed to subdue him.

00:04:01.500 The struggle continued

00:04:02.540 as the officers tried to arrest him,

00:04:04.680 but Blake broke free.

00:04:06.600 Video of the incident captured someone yelling,

00:04:08.920 get my son or get my gun,

00:04:11.220 hard to tell which,

00:04:12.240 and at that point,

00:04:13.720 Blake walked over to the driver's side of the car,

00:04:16.700 whose keys he had just apparently stolen,

00:04:19.320 and which had his and his girlfriend's three children

00:04:21.220 in it, ages three, five, and eight.

00:04:24.320 Blake appears in the eyewitness video

00:04:25.700 to have a knife,

00:04:27.020 and the police are heard yelling,

00:04:28.960 drop the knife, drop the knife,

00:04:30.320 an eyewitness or earwitness testified accordingly.

00:04:33.860 Blake did not comply.

00:04:35.460 He then reached into his car,

00:04:37.760 lunging forward as if to grab something

00:04:39.460 the officers believed to be a weapon,

00:04:41.000 and police opened fire,

00:04:43.080 shooting him seven times.

00:04:45.140 This belief by the officers

00:04:46.840 was entirely well-founded.

00:04:48.520 He had fought with them,

00:04:49.580 he had refused to comply

00:04:50.460 with their lawful orders,

00:04:51.600 he was armed,

00:04:52.760 there was an outstanding warrant

00:04:54.320 for his arrest for sexual assault,

00:04:56.220 he had stolen his girlfriend's car keys,

00:04:58.300 and was about to get into a car

00:04:59.480 with their children,

00:05:00.460 armed, with a knife.

00:05:01.980 He was told to stop,

00:05:03.040 and he didn't,

00:05:04.100 and the cops reasonably feared

00:05:05.420 for their safety

00:05:06.080 and for that of the children

00:05:07.040 inside that car.

00:05:09.320 The rush to judgment

00:05:10.720 was mind-numbingly fast.

00:05:13.720 The media,

00:05:14.620 political leaders,

00:05:15.420 and prominent cultural figures

00:05:16.920 immediately pounced,

00:05:18.140 eager to paint this

00:05:19.600 without knowing the facts

00:05:21.120 as yet another rogue cop

00:05:23.180 out to kill,

00:05:25.080 an unarmed black man.

00:05:27.420 A disturbing story out of Wisconsin,

00:05:29.800 yet another unarmed black man shot.

00:05:32.080 To the point where an officer

00:05:33.380 would get so close to a man,

00:05:36.320 an unarmed man,

00:05:37.100 and just begin shooting him.

00:05:38.980 Once again,

00:05:39.580 a black man,

00:05:40.860 Jacob Blake,

00:05:41.580 has been shot by the police

00:05:42.760 in broad daylight

00:05:43.700 with the whole world watching.

00:05:45.400 A black man,

00:05:46.440 father of three,

00:05:47.240 shot in the back

00:05:48.160 at close range

00:05:49.020 in front of his three children.

00:05:50.300 He was unarmed.

00:05:56.680 What you're seeing behind me

00:05:57.760 is one of multiple locations

00:05:59.620 that have been burning

00:06:00.800 in Kenosha, Wisconsin

00:06:01.940 over the course of the night.

00:06:04.460 Kenosha is all of it,

00:06:05.460 you just said,

00:06:05.900 not all of it is on fire.

00:06:07.260 Is that people have to

00:06:08.180 utilize these businesses?

00:06:10.020 We don't know what,

00:06:10.960 we pay for that.

00:06:12.000 You know,

00:06:12.420 the man was going to his car,

00:06:14.740 he didn't appear to be armed.

00:06:16.540 There was multiple moments

00:06:18.600 where if they wanted to,

00:06:20.100 they could have,

00:06:20.540 they could have tackled him.

00:06:21.780 Based on what I've seen,

00:06:23.220 it seems that the officer

00:06:24.420 should be charged.

00:06:25.240 You know,

00:06:25.400 I spoke to Jacob's mom and dad,

00:06:27.120 sister,

00:06:27.580 and other members of the family,

00:06:28.860 and I told them,

00:06:29.820 justice must and will be done.

00:06:32.560 Wow.

00:06:33.960 Joe Biden,

00:06:34.960 looking to boost his campaign,

00:06:37.060 weighed in too,

00:06:37.960 as you just heard,

00:06:39.040 in part.

00:06:40.160 Here's more of the man,

00:06:41.480 then running to be president,

00:06:43.000 along with his number two.

00:06:44.180 Does this strike you

00:06:45.360 as responsible commentary?

00:06:47.560 What I saw in that video

00:06:48.840 makes me sick,

00:06:50.440 especially his children.

00:06:52.180 It's horrible what they saw.

00:06:53.580 Watching their father get shot.

00:06:55.900 Like Gianna Floyd,

00:06:57.320 they're asking why?

00:06:58.920 Why daddy?

00:07:00.260 Once again,

00:07:00.880 a black man,

00:07:02.160 Jacob Blake,

00:07:02.860 has been shot by the police

00:07:04.040 in broad daylight,

00:07:05.440 with the whole world watching.

00:07:07.440 Put yourself in the shoes

00:07:08.560 of every black father

00:07:09.800 and black mother

00:07:10.580 in this country

00:07:11.540 and ask,

00:07:12.780 is this what we want America to be?

00:07:15.440 I think we should let

00:07:16.940 the judicial system

00:07:19.320 work its way.

00:07:20.860 I do think

00:07:21.520 there's a minimum need

00:07:23.180 to be charged,

00:07:24.020 the officers.

00:07:24.700 I think that there should be

00:07:26.200 a thorough investigation,

00:07:28.420 and based on what I've seen,

00:07:30.640 it seems that the officers

00:07:31.840 should be charged.

00:07:33.080 Everyone should be afforded

00:07:34.200 due process.

00:07:34.780 I agree with that completely.

00:07:36.240 That is absolutely

00:07:37.320 one of the important tenets

00:07:38.560 of our system of justice.

00:07:42.340 But here's the thing.

00:07:44.780 In America,

00:07:45.860 we know these cases

00:07:47.380 keep happening.

00:07:50.100 And we have had

00:07:51.480 too many black men

00:07:52.860 in America

00:07:53.380 who have been the subject

00:07:55.340 of this kind of conduct.

00:07:59.820 They should be charged.

00:08:01.040 They should be charged.

00:08:01.880 They don't know anything

00:08:02.540 about the case,

00:08:03.320 and they're saying

00:08:04.040 that cop should be charged.

00:08:06.440 Harris went on

00:08:07.300 to visit Jacob Blake,

00:08:09.100 a meeting in which

00:08:09.980 she told him she was,

00:08:11.160 quote,

00:08:11.540 proud of him.

00:08:13.020 A man who had

00:08:13.800 resisted arrest,

00:08:15.320 been noncompliant

00:08:16.160 with police,

00:08:16.760 was reported to have

00:08:17.540 drawn a weapon on them,

00:08:18.740 and who had fallen

00:08:19.360 into the crosshairs

00:08:20.040 of law enforcement

00:08:20.700 in the first place

00:08:21.500 for allegedly

00:08:22.060 digitally raping

00:08:23.240 his girlfriend

00:08:23.740 while his very young son

00:08:25.120 slept in the bed

00:08:26.600 next to her.

00:08:27.760 Proud?

00:08:29.480 The governor of Wisconsin,

00:08:31.160 today so eager

00:08:32.300 to keep the peace,

00:08:33.480 did nothing of the sort

00:08:35.480 in the wake

00:08:36.120 of this Jacob Blake shooting.

00:08:38.860 Rather than calm tempers,

00:08:40.580 he inflamed them.

00:08:42.460 First,

00:08:43.220 he tweeted out

00:08:43.960 the following,

00:08:44.820 quote,

00:08:45.600 tonight,

00:08:46.640 Jacob Blake was shot

00:08:47.700 in the back

00:08:48.240 multiple times

00:08:49.100 in broad daylight

00:08:50.080 in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

00:08:51.760 While we do not have

00:08:53.240 all of the details yet,

00:08:54.980 what we know for certain

00:08:56.300 is that he is not

00:08:57.400 the first black man

00:08:58.580 or person

00:08:59.140 to have been shot

00:09:00.060 or injured

00:09:00.760 or mercilessly killed

00:09:03.060 at the hands

00:09:04.140 of individuals

00:09:04.780 in law enforcement

00:09:05.560 in our state

00:09:06.340 or our country.

00:09:08.060 No, we did not

00:09:09.080 have all the details then.

00:09:10.740 And noting that fact

00:09:12.020 before passing

00:09:12.720 premature judgment

00:09:13.620 on this case

00:09:14.260 did not excuse

00:09:15.420 the governor's recklessness.

00:09:17.500 The reason one

00:09:18.240 should not comment

00:09:18.960 or rush to judgment

00:09:19.800 as a public official

00:09:20.640 in a case like this

00:09:21.560 is that they don't

00:09:22.420 have all the facts,

00:09:23.200 but they do have

00:09:23.820 big platforms.

00:09:25.860 Elected leaders

00:09:26.600 in a position of authority

00:09:28.060 have an obligation,

00:09:29.160 a special obligation

00:09:30.220 to keep their mouths shut

00:09:31.940 until the facts are known

00:09:33.840 to not stir the public pot

00:09:35.820 in a brew

00:09:36.360 that's already toxic.

00:09:38.200 But this was an election year

00:09:39.780 and the evil orange man

00:09:41.600 needed to be stopped

00:09:42.560 and George Floyd

00:09:43.720 had been killed

00:09:44.360 months earlier

00:09:45.040 and a narrative

00:09:46.000 was unfolding

00:09:46.720 in the country

00:09:47.460 that was not

00:09:48.820 to be questioned.

00:09:50.780 Police are on the hunt

00:09:52.440 to kill unarmed

00:09:53.960 black men

00:09:55.120 and Jacob Blake

00:09:56.560 was just the latest example.

00:09:59.480 Except none of that

00:10:00.680 is true.

00:10:02.020 For the record

00:10:02.920 and for the umpteenth time,

00:10:05.120 police make over

00:10:05.760 10 million arrests

00:10:06.640 in this country a year.

00:10:08.220 About 1,000 of those

00:10:09.700 turn deadly.

00:10:11.020 The vast majority

00:10:11.940 of those shot to death

00:10:13.260 by police

00:10:13.940 are armed.

00:10:15.700 About 40,

00:10:17.300 40,

00:10:18.380 are not.

00:10:19.740 In 2019,

00:10:21.140 according to

00:10:21.560 the Washington Post,

00:10:23.220 14

00:10:23.840 of those

00:10:25.100 who were unarmed

00:10:25.940 and shot

00:10:26.680 by police

00:10:27.600 were black.

00:10:29.320 14.

00:10:30.700 But what does

00:10:31.580 unarmed even mean?

00:10:33.140 Those cases

00:10:33.940 involve situations

00:10:34.860 where, for example,

00:10:35.820 one man killed

00:10:36.820 was choking the cop

00:10:38.400 and used his taser

00:10:40.060 on the officer.

00:10:41.460 A few tried to run

00:10:42.440 cops over

00:10:42.940 with their cars.

00:10:43.980 A few were beating

00:10:44.720 the cops

00:10:45.220 when the cops

00:10:45.960 opened fire.

00:10:47.180 And in several

00:10:47.900 of the cases,

00:10:48.440 the cops actually

00:10:49.140 did wind up

00:10:49.820 facing criminal charges.

00:10:50.940 So it's not as if

00:10:51.720 there is never

00:10:52.200 any accountability.

00:10:54.020 Shout out to

00:10:54.440 Matt Walsh

00:10:55.100 at the Daily Wire

00:10:56.080 who's done a great job

00:10:57.000 of detailing these cases.

00:10:59.100 The point is

00:10:59.840 there is not

00:11:00.360 and has not been

00:11:01.040 in recent years

00:11:01.700 anything approaching

00:11:02.600 an epidemic

00:11:03.200 of cops

00:11:03.820 killing unarmed

00:11:04.460 black men

00:11:04.980 in the streets.

00:11:06.620 In 2018,

00:11:07.920 it was 23.

00:11:09.440 In 2019,

00:11:10.660 again,

00:11:11.040 it was 14

00:11:12.500 out of some

00:11:13.880 3 million

00:11:14.960 black people

00:11:15.860 arrested.

00:11:16.800 That is

00:11:17.080 .0004%.

00:11:20.940 of the black

00:11:22.240 people

00:11:22.640 arrested.

00:11:24.080 But the public

00:11:24.920 perception on this

00:11:26.280 is insane.

00:11:28.160 When surveyed

00:11:28.740 by skeptic.com,

00:11:30.060 44% of liberals

00:11:31.720 estimated the number

00:11:33.000 of unarmed

00:11:33.560 black men

00:11:34.080 killed by police

00:11:34.820 each year

00:11:35.240 is over 1,000.

00:11:37.860 It's 14.

00:11:39.500 8% of the

00:11:40.660 very liberal

00:11:41.220 believe that

00:11:42.240 it's over

00:11:42.640 10,000.

00:11:44.640 10,000.

00:11:46.160 Again,

00:11:46.620 14 is the truth.

00:11:48.220 What a sad

00:11:48.880 delusion.

00:11:49.420 And what a

00:11:50.860 dangerous one.

00:11:52.740 The media

00:11:53.300 stokes this

00:11:54.020 fantasy by

00:11:54.600 putting any

00:11:55.180 police-involved

00:11:55.800 shooting of a

00:11:56.320 black man

00:11:56.780 on loop,

00:11:58.080 painting it

00:11:58.600 as part of

00:11:59.060 a long-standing

00:11:59.860 pattern,

00:12:00.780 and pushback

00:12:01.700 on these

00:12:02.300 falsehoods

00:12:03.180 not allowed.

00:12:04.700 Your humble

00:12:05.180 correspondent

00:12:05.720 reported early

00:12:06.600 on in the

00:12:07.040 Jacob Blake

00:12:07.520 shooting that

00:12:08.400 there were

00:12:08.720 reports he

00:12:09.720 was armed

00:12:10.240 and had a

00:12:10.720 knife.

00:12:11.700 Whereupon the

00:12:12.520 Twitter mob

00:12:13.220 and dopes like

00:12:14.000 Soledad O'Brien

00:12:15.040 spent days calling

00:12:16.300 me a racist

00:12:17.720 for merely

00:12:19.020 suggesting as

00:12:19.900 much.

00:12:20.640 Where's the

00:12:21.000 curiosity?

00:12:22.280 Where is even

00:12:22.920 the attempt

00:12:23.620 to be fair?

00:12:25.460 Don't hold

00:12:26.040 your breath.

00:12:27.460 Not long

00:12:28.240 thereafter,

00:12:28.800 Jacob Blake

00:12:29.420 himself went

00:12:30.500 on national

00:12:31.120 television and

00:12:32.200 guess what?

00:12:33.600 Admitted he

00:12:34.680 had a knife.

00:12:35.300 I realized I

00:12:38.520 had dropped

00:12:38.920 my knife,

00:12:40.380 that little

00:12:40.720 pocket knife,

00:12:41.560 so I picked

00:12:43.120 it up after

00:12:43.820 I got off

00:12:44.480 of him because

00:12:46.520 they tased

00:12:47.320 me and I

00:12:48.060 fell on top

00:12:48.760 of him.

00:12:49.540 With an

00:12:49.960 open knife in

00:12:50.600 hand that

00:12:51.500 Blake says

00:12:52.060 fell out of

00:12:52.600 his pocket,

00:12:53.400 he walks

00:12:53.760 around the

00:12:54.160 front of the

00:12:54.520 vehicle towards

00:12:55.580 the driver's

00:12:56.220 side door.

00:12:57.100 What are you

00:12:57.640 thinking at

00:12:58.440 that point?

00:12:58.980 I'm not

00:12:59.480 really worried

00:13:00.080 I'm walking

00:13:00.540 away from

00:13:01.080 them so it's

00:13:01.620 not like they

00:13:02.120 gonna shoot

00:13:02.480 me.

00:13:03.600 I shouldn't

00:13:04.180 have picked

00:13:04.720 it up.

00:13:06.300 Mm-hmm.

00:13:08.020 Right.

00:13:09.260 Then he

00:13:09.600 lunged into

00:13:10.120 his car and

00:13:11.280 he was shot.

00:13:13.000 The Wisconsin

00:13:13.500 Attorney General

00:13:14.220 later declined

00:13:14.880 to charge the

00:13:15.460 cop who shot

00:13:16.060 Blake, saying

00:13:16.600 there was no

00:13:17.080 way under

00:13:17.420 these facts

00:13:17.860 the criminal

00:13:18.260 charges were

00:13:18.820 appropriate,

00:13:19.580 a conclusion

00:13:20.080 seconded by

00:13:21.200 Merrick Garland's

00:13:22.420 DOJ.

00:13:23.500 Where's that

00:13:24.240 officer's apology?

00:13:26.260 But none of

00:13:27.040 this mattered

00:13:27.620 in August 2020.

00:13:29.420 There was no

00:13:30.200 willingness to

00:13:31.100 wait for the

00:13:32.080 facts.

00:13:32.700 Instead,

00:13:33.020 the mob,

00:13:34.140 incited by

00:13:35.360 a governor

00:13:35.800 and corporate

00:13:36.800 media desperate

00:13:37.860 to prove

00:13:38.480 their wokeness

00:13:39.500 and by a

00:13:40.600 presidential

00:13:40.960 candidate looking

00:13:41.700 to stoke up

00:13:42.460 racial animus

00:13:43.340 amongst a

00:13:44.220 Democrat base

00:13:45.000 in which

00:13:45.440 black votes

00:13:46.060 are crucial,

00:13:47.860 took to the

00:13:48.800 streets of

00:13:49.220 Kenosha,

00:13:50.140 burning and

00:13:50.920 looting away.

00:13:52.780 And that is

00:13:53.240 where Kyle

00:13:53.620 Rittenhouse

00:13:53.980 comes in.

00:13:55.180 After days of

00:13:56.080 watching Kenosha

00:13:56.780 burn, a city

00:13:58.080 in which his

00:13:58.640 father and

00:13:59.240 several other

00:13:59.960 members of his

00:14:00.780 family lived,

00:14:01.420 then 17-year-old

00:14:03.100 Rittenhouse decided

00:14:04.060 to do something

00:14:05.300 about the

00:14:05.860 chaos.

00:14:06.980 You see the

00:14:07.780 evening of

00:14:08.840 Jacob Blake's

00:14:09.880 shooting,

00:14:10.820 Governor Evers

00:14:11.420 did not call in

00:14:12.860 the National

00:14:13.600 Guard.

00:14:14.200 He did not.

00:14:14.920 Instead, he sent

00:14:15.600 that absurd tweet

00:14:16.660 I just read to

00:14:17.340 you.

00:14:18.400 Later that night,

00:14:19.360 100 cars were

00:14:20.700 set on fire in

00:14:21.500 Kenosha.

00:14:22.240 There was

00:14:22.520 rioting,

00:14:23.440 looting,

00:14:24.220 several businesses

00:14:24.940 were destroyed,

00:14:26.100 but at least the

00:14:26.760 governor felt good

00:14:27.400 about his

00:14:27.760 wokeness.

00:14:28.880 The next day,

00:14:29.760 Governor Evers

00:14:30.720 finally did

00:14:31.340 call up the

00:14:31.780 Guard, 125 of

00:14:33.300 them, to protect

00:14:34.260 a city of

00:14:34.740 100,000.

00:14:36.300 More arson and

00:14:37.640 lawlessness that

00:14:38.500 night as criminals

00:14:39.920 styling themselves as

00:14:41.560 Black Lives Matter

00:14:42.380 protesters took to

00:14:43.840 the streets.

00:14:45.160 By August 25,

00:14:46.920 2020, the governor

00:14:48.640 had called up

00:14:49.520 another 125

00:14:50.560 guardsmen.

00:14:51.680 Now that's a

00:14:52.340 total of 250.

00:14:53.580 Mind you, that's

00:14:54.020 half of what he

00:14:54.840 has called up

00:14:55.380 already this week.

00:14:56.720 But by that

00:14:57.500 point, as John

00:14:58.120 McCormick of

00:14:58.640 National Review

00:14:59.160 points out, law

00:15:00.300 enforcement was

00:15:01.020 totally overwhelmed

00:15:01.720 by the rioters.

00:15:03.080 The only visible

00:15:03.780 police presence was

00:15:04.740 around the

00:15:05.300 Kenosha courthouse

00:15:06.140 where a fence went

00:15:07.140 up about eight

00:15:07.780 feet tall with

00:15:08.740 about a thousand

00:15:09.420 protesters around

00:15:10.300 it.

00:15:11.280 This was the

00:15:11.800 night Rittenhouse

00:15:12.500 decided to try

00:15:14.100 to protect

00:15:15.000 Kenosha.

00:15:16.340 With frustrations

00:15:17.300 growing about their

00:15:18.100 city burning and

00:15:18.920 elected officials,

00:15:20.040 not to mention the

00:15:20.920 media, giving the

00:15:22.260 rioters a total

00:15:23.060 pass, many felt not

00:15:24.940 enough was being

00:15:25.460 done to keep the

00:15:26.140 peace.

00:15:27.160 Rittenhouse wanted

00:15:28.060 to do something

00:15:29.100 about it.

00:15:30.580 Look, I've said

00:15:31.120 before, I think

00:15:32.120 this was the

00:15:32.740 wrong move.

00:15:33.960 He was not

00:15:34.520 adequately trained

00:15:35.400 or mature enough

00:15:36.580 or the right man

00:15:37.580 for the job.

00:15:38.580 But I get it

00:15:39.760 because law

00:15:40.940 enforcement, as

00:15:42.240 is often the

00:15:42.940 case after the

00:15:43.660 nation wrongly

00:15:44.660 piles on unfairly

00:15:46.220 attacking a cop

00:15:47.100 as racist, either

00:15:48.460 wasn't able or

00:15:49.500 wasn't willing to

00:15:51.000 control the mob

00:15:51.640 that week.

00:15:52.140 Kyle grabbed

00:15:54.020 an AR-15 and

00:15:55.220 got himself in

00:15:55.940 serious trouble.

00:15:57.860 A man named

00:15:58.340 Joseph Rosenbaum

00:15:59.200 attacked him, so

00:16:00.460 did Anthony Huber

00:16:01.440 and Gage

00:16:02.300 Grosskreutz, and

00:16:03.900 he shot all three

00:16:04.860 of them.

00:16:06.080 And the first two

00:16:06.760 are now dead.

00:16:08.320 And before we

00:16:09.020 knew it, the

00:16:09.520 same cycle that

00:16:11.020 poisoned the

00:16:12.060 Jacob Blake case

00:16:13.320 started again.

00:16:15.120 Joe Biden

00:16:15.680 weighing in,

00:16:16.480 calling Kyle a

00:16:17.300 white supremacist,

00:16:18.360 again the rush to

00:16:19.460 judgment.

00:16:20.400 The media doing

00:16:21.520 the same, calling

00:16:22.420 him a domestic

00:16:23.060 terrorist, calling

00:16:24.560 him a vigilante

00:16:25.420 over and over.

00:16:26.320 But what if they

00:16:27.040 got it wrong again?

00:16:28.860 What if Kyle

00:16:29.540 Rittenhouse did not

00:16:30.680 break the law, but

00:16:31.880 got himself in

00:16:32.680 trouble trying to

00:16:34.000 uphold it?

00:16:35.820 What if this jury

00:16:36.780 sees the truth on

00:16:38.240 those videotapes and

00:16:39.500 says Kyle Rittenhouse

00:16:41.040 had a right to

00:16:42.600 defend himself?

00:16:44.400 Well, then we may

00:16:45.240 see a repeat of

00:16:47.080 August 2020.

00:16:48.540 Riots, looting,

00:16:50.220 chaos.

00:16:51.520 And zero

00:16:52.140 accountability.

00:16:54.000 By the way, not

00:16:54.820 everyone is happy

00:16:55.600 about the National

00:16:56.460 Guard now coming

00:16:57.700 in.

00:16:58.200 Yesterday, Jacob

00:16:58.960 Blake's uncle and

00:17:00.420 other BLM

00:17:00.980 protesters clashed

00:17:02.240 with Rittenhouse

00:17:02.820 supporters on the

00:17:04.080 steps of the

00:17:05.120 Rittenhouse

00:17:05.480 courthouse.

00:17:06.800 Blake's uncle was

00:17:07.600 angry about the

00:17:08.800 National Guard, told

00:17:09.600 the New York Post

00:17:10.240 the move proves

00:17:10.940 Governor Evers is a

00:17:12.260 coward and a

00:17:13.440 racist.

00:17:14.800 He says if the

00:17:15.760 Guard is needed, it

00:17:17.040 won't be to control

00:17:17.780 the BLM crowd.

00:17:18.720 It will be to

00:17:19.360 control Rittenhouse's

00:17:21.040 supporters, quote,

00:17:22.560 we'll be celebrating

00:17:23.680 that somebody's going

00:17:24.940 to jail and they'll

00:17:26.380 be quite upset.

00:17:28.200 You see, the only

00:17:28.900 just verdict in

00:17:31.040 Rittenhouse, guilty.

00:17:33.700 The National Guard

00:17:34.380 keeps the peace, like

00:17:35.780 the cops and Kyle,

00:17:37.500 racist.

00:17:38.640 And on and on the

00:17:40.380 pernicious cycle goes,

00:17:42.600 setting the nation up

00:17:43.440 for more destruction

00:17:44.280 and more division.

00:17:46.540 coming up, we're going

00:17:48.560 to be joined by

00:17:49.100 Robert Barnes,

00:17:49.860 founding attorney of

00:17:50.560 Barnes Law and

00:17:51.840 Kyle Rittenhouse's

00:17:52.900 former civil attorney

00:17:53.800 and Richard Barris,

00:17:55.140 director of Big Data

00:17:55.980 Poll and a polling

00:17:57.000 expert who has

00:17:58.180 assisted with

00:17:59.200 Rittenhouse's

00:17:59.920 attorneys during the

00:18:01.600 jury selection process.

00:18:03.220 This is We Just

00:18:03.940 Get News.

00:18:04.900 The jury has

00:18:05.920 asked a question.

00:18:07.800 We've got it for you

00:18:08.680 and we've got the

00:18:10.580 jury expert on

00:18:12.400 what it means.

00:18:13.380 Joining me to

00:18:20.800 discuss the

00:18:21.240 Rittenhouse trial,

00:18:22.320 where jurors continue

00:18:23.420 to deliberate right

00:18:24.560 now, are Robert

00:18:25.740 Barnes, founding

00:18:26.520 attorney of Barnes

00:18:27.220 Law and Kyle

00:18:28.560 Rittenhouse's former

00:18:29.320 civil attorney, and

00:18:30.620 Richard Barris,

00:18:31.480 director of Big Data

00:18:32.400 Poll and editor-in-chief

00:18:33.640 of People's Pundit

00:18:34.640 Daily.

00:18:35.460 Thank you both so

00:18:36.160 much for being here,

00:18:37.080 Robert and Richard.

00:18:38.140 So let's just start

00:18:39.320 with the breaking

00:18:40.220 news on what's

00:18:41.420 happening inside of

00:18:42.620 the courthouse.

00:18:43.380 The jury has

00:18:43.940 asked a question.

00:18:45.060 The question we're

00:18:45.680 told is whether the

00:18:47.100 jury may watch a

00:18:49.040 video in private or

00:18:50.840 do they need to go

00:18:51.420 back into the

00:18:52.000 courtroom to do

00:18:52.740 that?

00:18:53.460 There's a discussion

00:18:54.220 happening right now

00:18:55.000 between the lawyers

00:18:55.640 and the judge about

00:18:56.340 what the answer is.

00:18:58.080 It sounds like it's

00:18:59.060 a video as opposed

00:19:00.240 to all videos, but

00:19:01.360 I'm not clear on

00:19:02.100 that.

00:19:02.960 And apparently the

00:19:03.960 defense has

00:19:04.420 objected to one

00:19:05.980 piece of it saying

00:19:06.800 if it's that drone

00:19:09.060 video that the

00:19:09.900 defense had such an

00:19:11.280 objection to that the

00:19:12.200 prosecutor dropped

00:19:12.960 late in the case

00:19:13.960 and that had the

00:19:14.940 blurry, blurry blow up

00:19:16.260 of Kyle allegedly

00:19:17.400 pointing his gun

00:19:18.420 at a witness

00:19:21.000 not actually involved

00:19:22.600 in any of these

00:19:23.420 charges, then no,

00:19:25.620 they can't watch it

00:19:26.480 on their own.

00:19:27.080 The defense

00:19:27.520 counsel wants to be

00:19:28.460 present for that.

00:19:29.960 And I guess they

00:19:32.360 also want to limit

00:19:33.780 how many videos the

00:19:35.140 jury is able to go

00:19:36.560 review and the judge

00:19:37.400 is pushing back on

00:19:38.320 the defense on that

00:19:39.460 one saying they're

00:19:40.800 adults.

00:19:41.280 You can't treat

00:19:41.820 them like children.

00:19:42.520 They can see

00:19:42.880 whatever number of

00:19:43.960 videos they want.

00:19:45.240 So that's what's

00:19:45.660 happening right now.

00:19:46.580 Robert, let me start

00:19:47.140 with you on what you

00:19:48.620 make of the fact that

00:19:49.400 now it was eight

00:19:50.180 hours yesterday they

00:19:50.860 deliberated.

00:19:51.460 It's about two more

00:19:52.360 today, so we're 10

00:19:53.160 hours.

00:19:54.120 And that question and

00:19:55.260 their other question

00:19:55.940 yesterday, which was to

00:19:56.760 see additional copies

00:19:58.180 of the jury

00:19:58.760 instructions.

00:20:00.300 What, if anything,

00:20:01.060 can we glean?

00:20:02.600 So two things.

00:20:03.140 Wisconsin has a

00:20:04.040 somewhat unique rule.

00:20:05.120 It does not allow the

00:20:06.120 jurors to view a lot

00:20:07.200 of exhibits back in

00:20:08.260 the jury room.

00:20:09.360 Most courts do.

00:20:11.320 And Wisconsin

00:20:12.160 generally doesn't

00:20:12.980 allow it.

00:20:13.460 That's why they're

00:20:13.940 supposed to watch any

00:20:14.760 of the exhibits in

00:20:15.740 front of others so

00:20:16.600 that there can be

00:20:17.120 objections.

00:20:18.160 Probably the reason

00:20:18.960 why the jury would

00:20:19.600 like to watch it in

00:20:20.320 the deliberation room

00:20:21.200 is you have an

00:20:21.760 argument within the

00:20:22.680 jury.

00:20:23.420 You have people who

00:20:24.000 want to stop it and

00:20:24.940 say, see this.

00:20:27.200 And that's, in fact,

00:20:28.700 from the moment they

00:20:29.840 asked for the jury

00:20:30.460 instructions, my

00:20:31.340 interpretation was

00:20:32.240 there were holdouts.

00:20:33.580 And the great danger

00:20:34.940 in jury selection in

00:20:35.900 this case was because

00:20:37.200 of the pretrial

00:20:38.240 publicity, it

00:20:39.580 contaminated the

00:20:40.480 Kenosha jury pool with

00:20:41.640 many prejudiced jurors

00:20:43.060 that if they did not

00:20:44.300 do a meaningful,

00:20:45.820 detailed, probing

00:20:47.060 voir dire and jury

00:20:48.560 selection, they were

00:20:49.840 going to, both sides,

00:20:51.360 but definitely the

00:20:51.980 defense would get

00:20:52.680 stuck with three to

00:20:53.520 four jurors who

00:20:54.760 would wanted to

00:20:55.500 convict no matter

00:20:56.220 what the evidence

00:20:57.020 showed.

00:20:57.760 And I think that's

00:20:58.320 exactly what we have.

00:21:00.280 What do you make of

00:21:01.260 it, Richard?

00:21:01.680 Because, you know,

00:21:02.140 I was talking in my

00:21:02.840 opening talking points

00:21:03.960 memo about how

00:21:05.620 this whole thing

00:21:06.480 has been so skewed

00:21:07.420 by the politicians

00:21:08.240 and the media from

00:21:09.080 the start, going back

00:21:10.340 to Jacob Blake, which

00:21:11.320 is very much linked

00:21:12.240 to this case.

00:21:13.420 And then they

00:21:14.420 repeated all the

00:21:15.460 same mistakes on

00:21:16.600 Kyle's case, you

00:21:17.520 know, all the same

00:21:18.240 biases, all the same

00:21:19.720 rushes to judgment.

00:21:21.100 And that has put the

00:21:22.880 jury pool and

00:21:23.860 potentially the actual

00:21:25.040 jurors now deliberating

00:21:26.240 in a really tough

00:21:28.320 position.

00:21:29.020 Yeah, I have to

00:21:31.940 agree, too, with

00:21:32.600 Robert.

00:21:32.940 That sounds like

00:21:33.740 holdout jurors

00:21:34.960 trying to bring that

00:21:36.040 footage to others.

00:21:37.380 They're looking for a

00:21:38.320 justification because I

00:21:39.760 know it hurts people's

00:21:41.560 idealistic views, but

00:21:42.800 most jurors, Megan,

00:21:44.020 they don't make, they

00:21:45.720 don't render verdicts

00:21:46.580 based on the facts and

00:21:47.380 the arguments of the

00:21:48.080 case.

00:21:48.360 They have belief

00:21:48.960 systems.

00:21:49.560 The way the media did

00:21:50.680 cover this, we have

00:21:51.900 seen this in many

00:21:52.680 national cases that

00:21:53.760 Robert and I have both

00:21:54.640 worked on.

00:21:55.700 And it really does

00:21:56.460 poison that jury pool.

00:21:57.320 The predisposition

00:21:58.120 towards Kyle in this

00:21:58.900 case really was bad.

00:22:00.740 And the pitfalls

00:22:01.320 showed it in the

00:22:02.080 research.

00:22:02.880 And then also there

00:22:04.020 is a fear.

00:22:05.720 Is that what you

00:22:06.000 mean?

00:22:06.320 When you say

00:22:06.860 predisposition toward

00:22:07.960 Kyle, do you mean

00:22:09.520 against him?

00:22:10.660 I mean, in what way?

00:22:11.820 That he was guilty.

00:22:12.920 Yeah, that is what we

00:22:13.800 asked people whether

00:22:14.500 or not they probably

00:22:15.220 they thought he was

00:22:16.160 probably guilty from

00:22:16.980 what they had heard

00:22:17.540 from news coverage or

00:22:18.380 probably innocent.

00:22:19.600 And it was

00:22:19.960 overwhelming, even

00:22:21.000 among demographics

00:22:21.840 that most people at a

00:22:22.780 glance may think would

00:22:24.300 be favorable to Kyle.

00:22:25.460 But in truth, jury

00:22:26.640 selection is much more

00:22:27.680 complicated than that.

00:22:28.960 People render verdicts

00:22:30.180 based on belief systems

00:22:31.340 and personalities.

00:22:32.660 It's just the way it

00:22:33.680 is.

00:22:34.600 And, you know, from

00:22:35.340 the research we did,

00:22:36.540 it doesn't surprise me

00:22:37.380 at all if there are

00:22:38.000 two to four holdouts

00:22:39.160 that basically have

00:22:40.600 this view that Kyle

00:22:41.560 should not have been

00:22:42.340 there with a firearm

00:22:43.240 and that's it.

00:22:44.320 Once the judge

00:22:45.100 dismissed that

00:22:45.900 misdemeanor possession

00:22:46.780 charge, that was a,

00:22:48.640 you know, looking at

00:22:49.220 the research, I could

00:22:50.000 see that as the

00:22:51.060 compromise charge that

00:22:52.900 other jurors could

00:22:53.880 have went along with.

00:22:54.720 And once that was

00:22:55.520 off the table,

00:22:56.320 they're going to

00:22:57.620 they're going to fight

00:22:58.380 for some kind of

00:22:59.400 accountability.

00:22:59.880 It's just it's just

00:23:01.120 what we saw.

00:23:01.860 And and again, the

00:23:03.180 media on this, the

00:23:04.980 number of people, it's

00:23:06.800 coupled with what they

00:23:07.640 know because of what

00:23:08.720 they've been told with

00:23:09.320 the media.

00:23:10.240 Also, that is coupled

00:23:11.500 with fear over what

00:23:13.300 happened with the

00:23:14.060 protests in Kenosha.

00:23:15.500 And I mean, more than

00:23:16.740 eight in 10, Kelly,

00:23:17.680 we're extreme, Megan,

00:23:18.780 we're extremely worried

00:23:20.080 about this happening

00:23:20.720 again.

00:23:21.540 And you just can't

00:23:22.300 have that holding over

00:23:23.040 people's heads if you

00:23:23.900 want.

00:23:24.720 If you want an

00:23:25.300 impartial verdict.

00:23:26.380 So you did actual

00:23:27.180 system of people who

00:23:29.480 would be in the

00:23:29.980 Kenosha jury pool to

00:23:31.500 get a feel for what

00:23:32.680 the challenges

00:23:33.240 Rittenhouse might be

00:23:34.180 up against were.

00:23:36.500 We did.

00:23:37.280 And there were a lot

00:23:38.020 of pitfalls.

00:23:39.160 I mean, to say the

00:23:40.040 least, there were this

00:23:40.780 was a jury selection

00:23:41.920 case, Megan.

00:23:42.840 This was a jury

00:23:43.500 selection case.

00:23:44.320 And there was the

00:23:44.920 case gets won or

00:23:45.660 lost on the jury

00:23:46.540 selection.

00:23:47.080 That's it.

00:23:47.860 It was it.

00:23:48.920 That's exactly right.

00:23:50.040 And there are just

00:23:50.680 certain people that we

00:23:51.680 found, we talked to,

00:23:52.620 we interviewed over and

00:23:53.780 over.

00:23:54.040 And they just it would.

00:23:55.140 It doesn't matter what

00:23:56.180 you tell them.

00:23:57.260 It doesn't matter what

00:23:57.900 facts you present to

00:23:58.780 them, what arguments you

00:23:59.720 make to them.

00:24:00.560 This kid is guilty no

00:24:01.780 matter what.

00:24:02.500 That's it.

00:24:03.300 And did you find a

00:24:03.900 difference in this jury

00:24:04.640 has seven women, five

00:24:05.900 men?

00:24:06.680 We don't know what the

00:24:08.000 racial makeup is of the

00:24:09.460 jurors.

00:24:09.800 I guess there was one

00:24:10.480 Hispanic person in the

00:24:12.320 larger group, but we

00:24:13.440 don't know whether that

00:24:14.020 person has made it into

00:24:15.020 the final 12, but mostly

00:24:16.640 white.

00:24:17.120 Kenosha is, I think, 80

00:24:18.380 or 90 percent white.

00:24:19.200 So it's not particularly

00:24:20.120 surprising.

00:24:20.820 So did you see I mean,

00:24:22.580 is was there a breakdown

00:24:24.040 in terms of gender on who

00:24:25.780 would be more prosecution

00:24:27.660 or defense oriented?

00:24:29.780 You know, those basic

00:24:30.420 demographics that matter so

00:24:31.740 much with political

00:24:32.460 polling, a very marginal

00:24:34.780 when it comes to jury

00:24:35.640 selection in a case like

00:24:37.760 this, really what we found

00:24:39.400 were people's beliefs on

00:24:40.800 the right to self-defense

00:24:41.900 mattered, personal

00:24:43.660 experiences in their life.

00:24:45.180 I was just trying to

00:24:46.120 explain this before and I

00:24:47.620 thought back to the Scott

00:24:48.520 Peterson trial where that

00:24:50.320 one juror, Travis, was

00:24:51.500 basically thrown off of the

00:24:52.540 jury and replaced with

00:24:54.000 Rochelle, who had a life

00:24:55.920 experience that she was

00:24:57.620 abused while pregnant by a

00:24:59.100 man and everything that

00:25:00.400 ever happened to her in her

00:25:01.940 life that was wrong, you

00:25:03.400 know, that a man did to

00:25:04.320 her.

00:25:05.220 Scott was that man.

00:25:06.340 And I'm not I'm not

00:25:07.420 talking about, you know,

00:25:08.240 the guilt or the innocence

00:25:09.140 of Scott Peterson.

00:25:09.860 I'm just saying how how

00:25:11.160 how complicated these things

00:25:12.500 can be when jurors are

00:25:13.760 deliberating people's

00:25:14.760 personalities get get

00:25:16.100 into the mix, you know,

00:25:17.600 so it life experiences

00:25:19.260 and whether people have

00:25:20.320 certain beliefs and the

00:25:21.500 right to protect property,

00:25:22.680 the right to protect

00:25:23.400 person, their own

00:25:25.240 person, if that weighs

00:25:26.900 more than than basic

00:25:28.060 demographics like gender,

00:25:29.560 it's it's incredible.

00:25:30.440 It's it's also it's

00:25:32.200 complicated, but it's

00:25:33.260 probably one of the more

00:25:34.660 fascinating aspects of

00:25:36.200 what what we do.

00:25:37.060 So what would you have

00:25:38.100 said it was the perfect

00:25:38.880 juror for Kyle

00:25:39.720 Rittenhouse?

00:25:41.700 Yeah.

00:25:42.020 You know, honestly,

00:25:42.820 this is where we had

00:25:43.720 some differences with some

00:25:44.720 of the other opinions

00:25:45.400 we heard.

00:25:46.640 A perfect juror would

00:25:47.520 have been a man or woman

00:25:49.060 who did have strong

00:25:49.900 beliefs in the Second

00:25:50.760 Amendment.

00:25:51.220 A lot of people thought

00:25:52.180 that somebody who was

00:25:53.660 pro Second Amendment

00:25:54.640 might or not even

00:25:56.300 pro Second Amendment,

00:25:57.100 but really right to

00:25:57.920 self-defense may find

00:25:59.440 that what he did was

00:26:00.360 irresponsible.

00:26:01.000 And the truth is

00:26:02.140 there, you know,

00:26:03.620 that that's probably

00:26:04.180 seventy five, twenty five.

00:26:05.780 So we're looking at

00:26:06.640 probabilities when we

00:26:07.640 pick up a profile

00:26:09.020 of a specific juror.

00:26:10.300 And then also to

00:26:12.060 a white, you would

00:26:13.980 look at Kyle and you

00:26:14.760 would say maybe a white

00:26:15.640 woman with certain

00:26:17.960 beliefs in education,

00:26:18.960 you know, whether

00:26:20.400 they're college educated

00:26:21.380 is probably good for

00:26:23.040 him.

00:26:23.260 But in fact, they were

00:26:24.400 bad for him.

00:26:25.400 So we would probably

00:26:26.340 stick to more working

00:26:27.220 class, you know, man

00:26:28.840 or woman really

00:26:29.400 wouldn't matter, but

00:26:30.380 more working class or

00:26:31.560 at least some college,

00:26:32.740 but not a postgraduate

00:26:34.000 or maybe a woman who's

00:26:36.340 forty five and older,

00:26:37.140 which is the bachelors.

00:26:38.160 So it really gets

00:26:39.200 granular, but it's

00:26:40.760 interesting.

00:26:41.260 I would say it's

00:26:41.960 more socioeconomic.

00:26:43.360 So do you know any

00:26:45.240 of those facts about

00:26:45.980 the current jurors?

00:26:47.020 Like, do you have

00:26:47.540 any of the data?

00:26:48.540 We know precious

00:26:49.160 little about them.

00:26:50.940 Yet, unfortunately,

00:26:52.120 and this is probably

00:26:52.720 something Robert should

00:26:53.540 talk to you more

00:26:54.160 about, but this was

00:26:55.620 a mistake, I have to

00:26:56.840 say, on on the part

00:26:58.340 of the defense.

00:26:59.220 They had an

00:26:59.960 opportunity and I

00:27:01.240 think they had a

00:27:01.880 judge who would

00:27:02.640 have been open to

00:27:03.580 this to vet these

00:27:05.100 jurors better within

00:27:06.580 a time frame that

00:27:07.700 Robert and I

00:27:08.240 typically do not

00:27:09.000 get when this

00:27:09.900 happens, you know,

00:27:11.140 in any other given

00:27:12.380 trial, it's we have

00:27:13.840 to work very quickly.

00:27:15.340 And in this case, I

00:27:16.320 there was an

00:27:17.080 opportunity to do a

00:27:18.320 lot more work and

00:27:20.280 it was blown.

00:27:21.220 So unfortunately,

00:27:22.740 you know, we just

00:27:23.800 don't know as much

00:27:25.000 about the jury as I

00:27:26.520 think a good, you

00:27:27.920 know, or competent

00:27:29.200 defense would have

00:27:30.280 found out by now.

00:27:31.180 As you should.

00:27:32.060 So, Robert, a lot

00:27:33.000 of the viewers wrote

00:27:34.160 in yesterday saying and

00:27:35.540 some called in saying,

00:27:36.340 why wasn't there a

00:27:37.100 change of venue in

00:27:38.340 this case?

00:27:39.980 So there's two

00:27:41.000 different issues

00:27:41.460 there.

00:27:41.740 One is that Kenosha,

00:27:42.880 it turned out, was

00:27:43.840 not a lot different

00:27:44.860 than the rest of the

00:27:45.620 state, though Kenosha's

00:27:47.840 concern about issues

00:27:49.680 concerning their

00:27:51.240 verdict impacting their

00:27:52.360 community was a

00:27:53.780 concern unique to

00:27:54.720 Kenosha.

00:27:55.240 And so we provided

00:27:56.100 that evidence and

00:27:56.880 information to the

00:27:57.640 defense team and they

00:27:58.960 chose not to do

00:27:59.640 anything with it.

00:28:00.700 And it was also my

00:28:02.180 idea for the defense

00:28:02.920 team to let the court

00:28:03.760 know of what

00:28:04.840 Richard's data

00:28:05.560 found, which was

00:28:06.400 about two thirds of

00:28:07.680 Kenosha's presumed

00:28:08.860 Kyle guilty, which

00:28:10.200 constitutionally, of

00:28:11.120 course, they're

00:28:11.520 supposed to presume

00:28:12.340 him innocent.

00:28:13.140 That, too, the defense

00:28:14.300 team refused to relay

00:28:15.440 to the court.

00:28:16.780 And then lastly, we

00:28:17.780 had proposed we had

00:28:18.540 a detailed there's

00:28:19.360 about 17 different

00:28:20.680 questions that were

00:28:22.300 good proxies for

00:28:23.520 whether a juror could

00:28:24.920 presume Kyle

00:28:25.740 innocent.

00:28:26.760 None of those 17

00:28:27.460 questions, to my

00:28:28.960 knowledge, were even

00:28:29.620 asked of this jury

00:28:30.440 pool.

00:28:30.720 And we had the

00:28:31.820 defense had the

00:28:32.840 jurors' names a

00:28:34.320 week before the

00:28:35.300 trial and refused to

00:28:37.000 share it with any of

00:28:37.800 the data people that

00:28:38.580 we put together that

00:28:39.360 could help figure out

00:28:40.580 who might be biased.

00:28:41.840 And it looks like

00:28:42.720 three or four of those

00:28:43.480 rogue jurors are now

00:28:44.540 holding up the jury.

00:28:46.460 Is it a long time,

00:28:48.160 do you think, for

00:28:48.680 this case, Robert?

00:28:50.300 Ten hours?

00:28:52.060 I mean, yes.

00:28:53.440 My view was that this

00:28:54.640 case was unique.

00:28:55.740 Usually as a defense,

00:28:56.740 you want the jurors to

00:28:57.580 take a while because

00:28:58.500 usually there's a

00:28:59.220 presumption of guilty

00:29:00.140 of those not

00:29:00.640 supposed to be, and

00:29:01.460 so the longer it

00:29:02.260 goes, the better for

00:29:03.020 the defense.

00:29:03.600 This was the

00:29:04.100 reverse.

00:29:05.000 This was a case in

00:29:05.840 which we found from

00:29:06.480 the polling data, the

00:29:07.680 jurors who recognized

00:29:08.600 his innocence and who

00:29:09.500 saw the facts and

00:29:10.320 confirmed that innocence

00:29:11.280 came to quick

00:29:12.200 conclusions.

00:29:13.260 And here you had

00:29:13.760 about half of the

00:29:14.400 jurors who were ready

00:29:15.040 to start deliberating

00:29:16.360 Monday night.

00:29:17.180 So that group of

00:29:18.140 jurors clearly was

00:29:18.780 ready to go.

00:29:19.880 My guess is, just

00:29:21.200 reading the tea

00:29:22.080 leaves, and it's

00:29:22.580 always a little

00:29:23.140 tricky, but you

00:29:24.240 probably have an

00:29:25.100 eight to four,

00:29:25.740 nine to three split.

00:29:26.820 There's several of

00:29:27.760 the jurors that some

00:29:28.640 journalists thought

00:29:29.300 could be bad for

00:29:30.060 Kyle.

00:29:30.720 They are grouping

00:29:31.680 together now when

00:29:32.820 they come back into

00:29:33.580 the jury deliberation

00:29:34.580 room.

00:29:35.360 So that suggests

00:29:36.180 there's also sort of

00:29:37.240 one area of split in

00:29:39.300 Kenosha is you got

00:29:40.120 this old Yankee

00:29:41.000 money that has

00:29:43.080 disproportionate

00:29:43.900 political and

00:29:44.520 financial capital in

00:29:45.480 Kenosha, but it's

00:29:46.220 only about less than

00:29:47.160 10% of the

00:29:47.840 population.

00:29:49.060 But they've had a

00:29:50.600 history of leadership

00:29:51.440 roles, even despite

00:29:52.820 the large immigrant

00:29:53.860 population in

00:29:54.680 Kenosha, which is

00:29:55.460 across the board,

00:29:56.820 East European,

00:29:57.520 Southern European,

00:29:58.160 as well as

00:29:59.660 Mexican-American

00:30:00.240 now.

00:30:01.180 And by the way,

00:30:01.580 the Mexican-American,

00:30:02.360 to my knowledge,

00:30:02.880 did actually get

00:30:03.580 onto the jury.

00:30:04.400 So he's part of

00:30:05.080 the five men.

00:30:07.520 But is that one of

00:30:09.320 those jurors appears

00:30:10.320 to be on there?

00:30:11.100 In other words,

00:30:11.580 someone that comes

00:30:12.240 from sort of the

00:30:12.740 old aristocracy of

00:30:13.780 Kenosha, and that's

00:30:15.140 someone who we found

00:30:16.240 in the polling would

00:30:16.880 be bad for Kyle, that

00:30:18.100 they wanted to judge

00:30:18.960 Kyle for many reasons,

00:30:19.960 that he's from the

00:30:20.460 wrong side of the

00:30:21.100 tracks, that he's

00:30:22.220 from the wrong side of

00:30:23.040 town, if you will,

00:30:23.940 that he caused

00:30:25.260 controversy to

00:30:26.620 Kenosha in their

00:30:27.360 minds, people who

00:30:28.440 are eager to virtue

00:30:29.240 signal.

00:30:29.920 I mean, just think

00:30:30.680 of Upper West Side

00:30:31.420 Manhattanites who

00:30:32.400 can't wait.

00:30:33.080 It's like something

00:30:33.660 out of Electric

00:30:34.200 Kool-Aid test with

00:30:35.440 Thomas Wolfe.

00:30:36.680 You have this sort

00:30:37.600 of impression

00:30:38.300 constantly developed,

00:30:39.820 which I think is

00:30:40.400 true, that what you

00:30:41.900 have in that juror

00:30:43.040 mindset is a very

00:30:44.040 problematic juror

00:30:44.980 mindset for Kyle, and

00:30:46.380 they may be the

00:30:46.980 holdup now for the

00:30:47.920 jury verdict.

00:30:49.200 I'll tell you, I

00:30:50.020 mean, I have tried

00:30:50.540 cases before, and you

00:30:51.460 sit there and you

00:30:51.900 look at that jury, and

00:30:53.060 it's amazing how

00:30:54.100 well you actually

00:30:54.800 can predict whether

00:30:55.720 they like you, whether

00:30:57.000 they like your

00:30:57.600 argument, and then

00:30:58.620 when you get to, in

00:30:59.380 some cases, talk to

00:31:00.520 the jury after the

00:31:01.380 verdict comes in, and

00:31:02.820 you're just stunned to

00:31:03.860 think, oh my God, why

00:31:04.680 didn't I listen to my

00:31:05.700 instincts?

00:31:06.420 Why didn't I, you

00:31:06.960 know, or I've had a

00:31:08.220 few of those where

00:31:08.840 it's like, oh, gosh,

00:31:10.100 the jury consultant

00:31:11.160 was right, I

00:31:12.340 shouldn't have

00:31:12.680 overruled them, that

00:31:14.240 kind of thing.

00:31:14.820 So let's talk about

00:31:16.000 the threat that the

00:31:17.460 jurors know they

00:31:19.880 possibly are facing,

00:31:21.560 their city is

00:31:22.320 definitely facing.

00:31:23.200 There were reports

00:31:24.240 yesterday, and

00:31:25.200 probably today too, that

00:31:26.640 these protesters are

00:31:27.460 outside, about a

00:31:28.200 thousand of them,

00:31:29.400 according to Fox

00:31:30.340 News, of, they're

00:31:31.900 sort of pro-Kyle and

00:31:33.260 anti-Kyle, sort of,

00:31:34.760 you know, Second

00:31:35.180 Amendment and BLM,

00:31:36.940 out on the courthouse

00:31:38.480 steps, and apparently

00:31:39.220 they're arguing and

00:31:40.120 they're chanting and

00:31:41.040 they get the no justice,

00:31:42.500 no peace stuff going,

00:31:43.680 and according, again, to

00:31:45.020 the Fox News report, you

00:31:46.560 can hear this inside the

00:31:47.800 courthouse.

00:31:48.300 I mean, this jury,

00:31:48.960 they're well aware of

00:31:50.820 the scrutiny on

00:31:52.700 them.

00:31:54.560 What do you think of

00:31:55.340 it, Richard?

00:31:55.700 I mean, how dangerous

00:31:56.340 is that?

00:31:56.680 And the demographic,

00:31:58.800 Megan, that Robert was

00:31:59.780 just talking about, too,

00:32:00.800 they also don't, they

00:32:01.600 don't like boat

00:32:02.180 rocking.

00:32:02.880 They don't want the

00:32:03.740 community to have the

00:32:04.860 civil unrest problems

00:32:06.400 that they saw the

00:32:07.700 prior summer.

00:32:08.600 And we did ask them

00:32:09.500 about how important

00:32:10.180 that was to them, and

00:32:11.280 it was overwhelmingly

00:32:12.440 that they thought that

00:32:13.380 those, that unrest was

00:32:14.720 bad for the community,

00:32:15.840 it wasn't helping, you

00:32:17.340 know, with civil rights,

00:32:18.200 it wasn't advancing

00:32:19.060 anybody's, you know,

00:32:21.020 to make a more

00:32:21.520 equitable society, but

00:32:23.280 they are, like you

00:32:24.520 said, they're aware of

00:32:25.980 it, and they just don't

00:32:26.880 want it to happen.

00:32:28.380 So, you know, it's part

00:32:29.520 of the, you know, we

00:32:31.080 don't like to look at

00:32:31.880 this, this side of

00:32:33.160 ourselves, but it's

00:32:34.520 very realistic that

00:32:35.820 sometimes we make

00:32:37.280 decisions that we

00:32:38.120 think are in the

00:32:38.680 greater good at the

00:32:40.060 expense of somebody

00:32:40.880 else.

00:32:41.260 And for those who

00:32:42.300 think that that

00:32:43.080 doesn't happen in

00:32:43.920 juries, they're very

00:32:45.340 naive.

00:32:46.000 Of course it does.

00:32:46.760 When we have national

00:32:48.000 spotlight the way we

00:32:48.900 have on a case like

00:32:49.760 this, and you have

00:32:50.820 really, again, I am

00:32:52.200 using this coupling

00:32:52.920 because it is this

00:32:53.960 two-fold, this one-two

00:32:55.320 combination that

00:32:56.560 happens to some of

00:32:57.340 these defendants.

00:32:58.160 You have the media

00:32:58.940 that comes down and

00:33:00.060 tries them in the

00:33:00.660 court of public

00:33:01.160 opinion.

00:33:01.840 They see very little

00:33:02.980 in the evidence, but

00:33:03.860 it does succeed in

00:33:05.340 poisoning a potential

00:33:06.220 jury pool.

00:33:07.340 And then you have the

00:33:08.960 second part of this

00:33:09.760 where they're afraid of

00:33:10.600 the implications of

00:33:11.460 what might happen if

00:33:12.820 they do the wrong

00:33:13.600 thing or the right

00:33:14.380 thing or whatever is

00:33:15.240 the perceived wrong or

00:33:16.240 right thing, which we

00:33:17.260 find during research

00:33:18.280 all the time.

00:33:19.500 They know what

00:33:20.760 answer they think is

00:33:22.800 the right answer in

00:33:24.220 what you want to

00:33:25.500 hear.

00:33:26.240 So they're always

00:33:26.900 trying to be pretty

00:33:28.320 deceptive when you're

00:33:29.700 doing the research

00:33:31.620 on them.

00:33:33.540 But in the end, we

00:33:34.980 find those belief

00:33:35.980 systems are really the

00:33:37.100 most predictive.

00:33:38.320 And these people,

00:33:39.640 without a doubt, are

00:33:40.720 not going to want

00:33:41.760 their neighborhoods

00:33:42.800 and their communities

00:33:43.940 torn upside down.

00:33:45.140 And it's just, it's

00:33:46.200 a reality.

00:33:48.020 It's, gosh, it's so

00:33:49.900 unfortunate.

00:33:50.520 And it's not something

00:33:51.140 that they are likely to

00:33:52.060 say explicitly, certainly

00:33:53.260 not on camera after the

00:33:54.400 verdict, or even to

00:33:55.620 themselves inside that

00:33:56.540 jury room.

00:33:57.040 It's just sort of the

00:33:57.700 800-pound gorilla

00:33:58.740 hanging there like, you

00:34:00.120 know, the media, here we

00:34:01.280 are, we're going to get

00:34:02.000 you.

00:34:02.880 And so it's, that's

00:34:04.260 where the lesser

00:34:04.720 included charges, Robert,

00:34:06.400 could become really

00:34:07.140 important.

00:34:07.540 Because if the die

00:34:09.420 hards who don't think

00:34:10.680 he should be convicted

00:34:11.420 of anything, wind up

00:34:14.100 folding, right?

00:34:15.320 Like, they just want to

00:34:16.020 get a verdict and they

00:34:16.800 want to get this thing

00:34:17.320 over with.

00:34:17.900 They've got the lesser

00:34:18.620 included to go to.

00:34:20.380 I don't, do you know

00:34:21.360 the answer to this?

00:34:22.240 Is that something, the

00:34:23.200 inclusion of those

00:34:23.920 lesser included, something

00:34:25.380 the defense had to agree

00:34:27.160 to?

00:34:28.940 The defense didn't have

00:34:29.680 to agree to it, but if

00:34:31.280 they objected and the

00:34:32.200 reason why there was a

00:34:32.780 colloquy of Kyle was

00:34:33.900 because the defendant can

00:34:35.080 individually object,

00:34:36.060 regardless of his

00:34:36.740 counsel's advice, then

00:34:38.140 that can be grounds for

00:34:39.220 the court to object, but

00:34:40.620 the court doesn't have

00:34:41.500 to accept the

00:34:42.080 defendant's objections.

00:34:43.420 However, if Kyle had

00:34:44.560 not taken the stand, it's

00:34:45.940 unlikely those lesser

00:34:46.880 included would have

00:34:47.540 come in because the

00:34:48.680 prosecution almost

00:34:49.580 exclusively relied on

00:34:51.140 his testimony and the

00:34:52.760 fact that he testified

00:34:53.720 to create the

00:34:54.920 gradations of guilt

00:34:55.800 differential evidentiary

00:34:57.060 basis to have that

00:34:58.340 lesser included included.

00:35:00.300 And it was our

00:35:01.240 advice, my advice, not

00:35:02.740 to take that path, but

00:35:04.440 you know, that ship

00:35:04.960 has sailed.

00:35:05.980 And I think one other

00:35:06.820 thing they could raise

00:35:07.680 with the court, and I

00:35:08.460 think more and more

00:35:09.280 cases they're going to

00:35:10.020 have to do this, which

00:35:11.500 is they're going to have

00:35:12.800 to, your First

00:35:14.600 Amendment rights stop

00:35:16.320 when a defendant's

00:35:17.520 rights to a fair trial

00:35:18.720 start.

00:35:19.700 And so there is not a

00:35:20.960 right to scream outside

00:35:22.380 the courthouse in a way

00:35:23.400 that the jury can hear.

00:35:25.140 They do not have that

00:35:26.120 right.

00:35:26.400 They don't have a right

00:35:27.080 to influence the jury.

00:35:28.420 So they should have been

00:35:29.560 pushed further back away

00:35:30.840 from the courthouse to

00:35:32.060 make clear that wherever

00:35:33.000 they're protesting could

00:35:34.420 not be heard by the jury

00:35:35.880 inside the courthouse.

00:35:37.140 This isn't like a

00:35:38.160 federal courthouse where

00:35:39.140 you know, it's 20

00:35:39.880 stories high and some

00:35:40.900 of the new modern

00:35:41.500 ones.

00:35:42.240 This is an old school

00:35:42.880 courthouse that the

00:35:44.200 walls are not thick

00:35:45.060 enough to prevent

00:35:46.160 people from interfering

00:35:47.380 effectively with the

00:35:48.700 jury.

00:35:49.120 And and this has been

00:35:50.060 well-established law.

00:35:51.500 And I think the judge

00:35:52.360 made a mistake by

00:35:53.220 allowing the protest to

00:35:54.260 be so close to the

00:35:55.120 courthouse.

00:35:55.560 And the defense made a

00:35:56.220 mistake by not asking

00:35:57.080 the judge to make sure

00:35:58.380 those protests were not

00:35:59.380 so close.

00:35:59.920 They could actually be an

00:36:01.180 earshot of the jury.

00:36:02.360 Yeah, we went through

00:36:03.880 this with those lunatics

00:36:05.280 from the Westboro Baptist

00:36:06.300 Church who are

00:36:07.260 protesting out the

00:36:08.220 funerals of dead

00:36:09.820 service members with

00:36:10.960 with signs about gay

00:36:12.380 people.

00:36:12.740 It's a very rando.

00:36:13.520 But they're they are

00:36:15.440 allowed to protest.

00:36:16.300 The Supreme Court made

00:36:17.000 that clear.

00:36:17.380 But time, place and

00:36:18.580 manner restrictions are

00:36:19.960 totally appropriate, just

00:36:21.220 as long as, you know,

00:36:22.140 they're reasonable.

00:36:22.620 So the judge absolutely

00:36:23.660 could have said you're

00:36:24.860 too close.

00:36:25.540 You got to get farther

00:36:26.460 away.

00:36:26.900 You can protest all you

00:36:27.660 want.

00:36:27.960 But the jury's not

00:36:29.200 supposed to hear that.

00:36:30.000 And again, we didn't

00:36:30.940 even get to the fact

00:36:31.560 that the jury knows

00:36:32.540 they're under threat.

00:36:33.240 They know that they

00:36:33.740 were videotaped.

00:36:34.680 The judge said they

00:36:35.520 confiscated and destroyed

00:36:36.460 the tape, but they know

00:36:37.500 that everyone is looking

00:36:39.080 at them.

00:36:39.720 So they don't they don't

00:36:40.760 need this right now.

00:36:42.000 Well, can you imagine how

00:36:42.600 distracting that is while

00:36:43.520 you're sitting in there and

00:36:44.140 you're hearing all that

00:36:44.920 outside?

00:36:46.160 We're going to speak next

00:36:47.120 about what what the

00:36:48.440 White House is now saying

00:36:49.560 about this case.

00:36:50.460 I mean, suddenly they're

00:36:51.260 all clammed up.

00:36:52.200 Suddenly they realize it

00:36:53.080 might not be appropriate to

00:36:54.000 comment.

00:36:54.620 Really?

00:36:55.960 And I really think Joy Reid

00:36:57.800 has really lost her mind.

00:36:58.800 She's lost her

00:36:59.800 ever loving mind, how

00:37:01.980 she's really taking issue

00:37:02.900 with Kyle's tears and

00:37:04.620 comparing him to Brett

00:37:05.580 Kavanaugh.

00:37:06.160 We're going to pick it up

00:37:06.740 there with Robert Barnes

00:37:08.000 and Richard Barris next.

00:37:09.540 And remember, folks, you

00:37:10.220 can find the Megan Kelly

00:37:11.040 show live on Sirius XM

00:37:12.340 Triumph channel 111 every

00:37:13.800 weekday at noon east and

00:37:15.320 the full video show and

00:37:16.600 clips when you subscribe to

00:37:18.240 our YouTube channel.

00:37:19.040 That's YouTube dot com

00:37:20.420 slash Megan Kelly.

00:37:22.140 They've been really, I

00:37:23.340 think, helpful during this

00:37:24.240 whole Rittenhouse trial

00:37:25.180 because you can see the

00:37:26.680 evidence like the monologue

00:37:27.660 I just did for our

00:37:28.480 listeners.

00:37:28.740 You can see all the

00:37:29.720 videotapes and so on that

00:37:30.660 I'm referring to if you

00:37:31.680 check it out on YouTube.

00:37:33.380 If you prefer an audio

00:37:34.220 podcast, sometimes you do.

00:37:35.560 It's easy to walk around

00:37:36.380 the house, get your errands

00:37:37.340 done by listening to it on

00:37:38.760 audio.

00:37:39.920 Subscribe and download on

00:37:40.840 Apple, Spotify, Pandora,

00:37:42.240 Stitcher or wherever you get

00:37:44.480 your podcasts.

00:37:45.840 And there you can find our

00:37:46.540 full archives, by the way,

00:37:47.580 with more than 200 shows.

00:37:49.900 OK, guys, so the judge has

00:37:59.300 ruled that for now the jury,

00:38:01.360 if they want to see a video,

00:38:02.320 has to do it in the presence

00:38:04.120 of the courtroom, not back in

00:38:05.900 the jury deliberation room.

00:38:07.820 And that counsel is entitled

00:38:09.340 to be present.

00:38:10.760 And apparently the jury has not

00:38:11.740 revealed which specific video

00:38:14.200 they're interested in seeing.

00:38:15.940 So we'll continue to watch

00:38:17.180 that.

00:38:17.420 So, Robert, let me start with

00:38:18.540 this.

00:38:19.020 If we do have a hung jury,

00:38:21.020 right, because you can

00:38:21.480 definitely see this being the

00:38:22.360 kind of case where people have

00:38:23.260 very strong views and they

00:38:24.320 won't bend.

00:38:25.260 If we have a hung jury because

00:38:26.920 they cannot reach a verdict,

00:38:28.720 then what?

00:38:30.360 Then what?

00:38:31.020 I mean, the judge has two

00:38:31.820 options.

00:38:32.260 The defense has moved to

00:38:33.940 dismiss, to grant a mistrial

00:38:35.940 with prejudice based on the

00:38:37.960 government withholding

00:38:38.840 evidence, untimely

00:38:39.940 disclosure of evidence,

00:38:41.340 commenting on Kyle's Fifth

00:38:42.700 Amendment rights, commenting

00:38:43.980 on on evidentiary issues

00:38:45.420 where the court had actually

00:38:47.320 ruled in advance that they

00:38:48.540 could not get into all of

00:38:50.060 those.

00:38:50.500 If there's a mistrial with

00:38:51.640 prejudice granted after the

00:38:54.240 jury can't come to a verdict,

00:38:55.440 then they cannot retry the

00:38:57.300 case.

00:38:57.600 But they can in Wisconsin

00:38:59.520 appeal the case and appeal

00:39:01.360 that ruling.

00:39:02.560 If the mistrial is granted

00:39:03.660 without prejudice, then the

00:39:06.280 basically the prosecution can

00:39:07.880 retry the case and we're back.

00:39:09.300 We start over all over again.

00:39:11.560 What are the odds of this?

00:39:12.700 I mean, because in most trials,

00:39:14.300 the judge would never do that,

00:39:15.800 right?

00:39:15.940 They would he would never in a

00:39:17.160 hung jury case say, I'm going

00:39:19.120 to grant a mistrial with

00:39:20.180 prejudice pursuant to that

00:39:21.440 motion that was filed before

00:39:22.440 your deliberations.

00:39:24.100 But this case, I feel like

00:39:25.700 there is I don't I doubt he'd

00:39:27.400 do it, but I do think there's a

00:39:28.500 better than average chance he'd

00:39:29.820 do it in this case.

00:39:30.980 What do you think?

00:39:32.300 Yes, he's already made the

00:39:33.200 factual finding.

00:39:33.940 That's the the magic words in

00:39:35.520 Wisconsin, which is that the

00:39:36.760 prosecutor engaged in bad

00:39:38.060 faith.

00:39:38.860 So when this issue came up at

00:39:40.140 trial during Kyle's cross

00:39:41.780 examination last week, where

00:39:43.380 the prosecutor commented on

00:39:44.700 Kyle's Fifth Amendment rights

00:39:45.980 and then also further

00:39:47.520 commented on issues that the

00:39:48.800 judge said he couldn't comment

00:39:49.780 on.

00:39:50.080 Evidential wise, the judge

00:39:51.680 specifically, the prosecutor

00:39:53.300 said, I did this in good

00:39:55.100 faith.

00:39:55.480 And the judge said, I don't

00:39:56.680 believe you.

00:39:57.440 And legally in Wisconsin, if

00:39:59.960 you find the prosecutor

00:40:01.020 violated the rules, violated

00:40:03.060 constitutional rights, and it

00:40:04.720 wasn't in good faith, then a

00:40:06.600 mistrial with prejudice is the

00:40:08.380 remedy.

00:40:08.660 It is extremely rare that it's

00:40:10.620 ever granted.

00:40:11.800 But I agree that this is one of

00:40:13.840 those rare circumstances where

00:40:15.400 it could, and in my personal

00:40:16.880 view, should be granted.

00:40:18.800 Boy, this judge would have to

00:40:20.240 have a very steely spine to do

00:40:23.220 that.

00:40:24.220 What about can you tell us about

00:40:25.720 this motion that the defense

00:40:26.960 made a new motion for a

00:40:29.000 mistrial with prejudice based on

00:40:31.500 this high resolution video?

00:40:33.140 So we've been looking at this

00:40:34.540 video that the prosecution relied

00:40:36.100 upon.

00:40:36.520 This is the drone video that

00:40:38.720 they introduced late in the

00:40:39.700 case, and they really think

00:40:40.880 that this is the linchpin.

00:40:42.060 They say it shows Kyle

00:40:43.200 pointing his gun at this

00:40:45.640 witness, Zeminski, shortly

00:40:47.520 before the pursuit involving

00:40:49.680 Rosenbaum began.

00:40:51.280 And they really the prosecution

00:40:52.220 loves this video.

00:40:53.540 Well, apparently during its

00:40:54.380 closing, they used a high

00:40:55.700 resolution version of it, which

00:40:57.680 the defense had not been

00:40:58.800 provided with.

00:40:59.800 And the defense is very angry

00:41:01.820 saying, why wouldn't you have

00:41:03.820 given us the high res version

00:41:05.800 where we can see everything

00:41:06.900 just as well as you could see

00:41:08.080 everything?

00:41:09.240 And that I mean, that is an

00:41:10.560 egregious misstep by the

00:41:12.200 prosecution.

00:41:12.700 But do you think what do you

00:41:15.080 make of it as grounds for a

00:41:16.440 mistrial with prejudice?

00:41:18.340 I think in isolation, you could

00:41:20.080 see it as a mistake.

00:41:21.180 But in this case, it's hard to

00:41:22.640 see it as a mistake.

00:41:23.840 You know, the prosecution had the

00:41:25.500 FBI drone footage much earlier

00:41:27.560 than they ever disclosed to the

00:41:28.620 defense.

00:41:29.000 The FBI magically lost their

00:41:31.220 high definition version of their

00:41:32.640 drone footage.

00:41:33.440 Then this drone footage magically

00:41:35.500 showed up in the middle of trial

00:41:37.460 on their front desk from the

00:41:38.700 evidence fairy, which is kind of

00:41:40.800 hard to believe.

00:41:41.580 And then they only produced the

00:41:43.380 low resolution for the defense

00:41:45.560 prior to closing arguments rather

00:41:47.300 than the high resolution version.

00:41:48.720 And this comes in the context of a

00:41:50.280 defense that lied about Kyle and

00:41:52.260 bail proceedings, lied about Kyle

00:41:53.900 and pretrial proceedings, lied about

00:41:55.780 facts and law during trial.

00:41:57.260 According to a witness, tried to

00:41:58.960 suborn perjury other witnesses.

00:42:00.980 It looks like they did suborn

00:42:02.260 perjury and, of course, commented

00:42:04.040 on Kyle's Fifth Amendment rights

00:42:05.320 during the trial and cross

00:42:06.500 examination.

00:42:07.340 So the aggregate of misconduct

00:42:09.180 makes this latest misconduct

00:42:11.000 sufficiently egregious, in my

00:42:12.940 view, for the court to grant a

00:42:14.420 mistrial with prejudice.

00:42:15.660 You could you could do it if you

00:42:18.180 really wanted to.

00:42:20.060 These jurors, we have a little

00:42:21.620 videotape, Richard, of what they

00:42:23.060 are hearing.

00:42:24.040 Again, yesterday we were told that

00:42:25.320 the numbers got up to around

00:42:26.280 a thousand outside the courthouse

00:42:27.500 today.

00:42:27.860 This the video we have here

00:42:29.200 doesn't show that, but it only is a

00:42:30.640 small clip.

00:42:31.140 But take a listen to what they're

00:42:32.640 hearing.

00:42:45.280 You can see in pictures that we've

00:42:47.420 grabbed the messaging on the

00:42:50.300 T-shirts of some of the people

00:42:52.080 there.

00:42:52.480 You know, the jurors have to go in

00:42:53.520 and out of this courthouse every

00:42:54.540 day.

00:42:55.480 One woman wearing a T-shirt that

00:42:56.820 clearly reads F Kyle spelled

00:42:59.180 out and some other threatening

00:43:01.680 messages.

00:43:02.180 They very much appear against

00:43:04.100 him.

00:43:05.480 It's just it's pretty outrageous to

00:43:07.040 have it that close to the

00:43:08.060 courthouse.

00:43:08.960 Have you seen that before?

00:43:10.440 And the other question I have for

00:43:11.580 you is, have you seen it?

00:43:12.420 Look, yeah, Kyle.

00:43:13.340 Kyle's a white supremacist and

00:43:14.460 terrorist right outside.

00:43:15.320 You can see the courthouse right

00:43:16.120 behind this woman.

00:43:17.360 The Judge Schrader is a shit show.

00:43:19.740 That's one right there trying to get

00:43:20.980 at the judge, all sorts of folks

00:43:23.300 outside with bullhorns.

00:43:25.040 Then there's the other side.

00:43:26.120 Let's go, Brandon.

00:43:27.000 I assume they're the other side

00:43:28.440 and on and on.

00:43:29.660 So have you seen something this

00:43:31.060 close to the courthouse before?

00:43:33.260 Let me start with that.

00:43:35.340 Yeah, and we have in police

00:43:37.320 involved shootings and then even

00:43:38.920 what seems to be unrelated, but

00:43:40.980 maybe not so much.

00:43:42.520 You know, we had in Florida the

00:43:44.840 George Zimmerman trial where the

00:43:46.500 presence of the crowd was very

00:43:48.020 real.

00:43:48.420 So was the case in Casey Anthony

00:43:50.100 as well.

00:43:50.740 That was very real.

00:43:52.020 But I just think we're we're in a

00:43:53.420 bit of a different time period now.

00:43:56.120 And, you know, based on what the

00:43:57.340 prosecutor did with the high

00:43:58.620 resolution photo, if you have

00:44:00.660 you know, I'm not a lawyer, but

00:44:02.060 looking at this from the research

00:44:03.300 point of view, if you have a weak

00:44:04.500 case and you're trying to

00:44:06.180 reaffirm someone's beliefs, you're

00:44:07.940 trying to make the story that they

00:44:09.640 want to tell themselves to get to a

00:44:11.160 guilty verdict.

00:44:12.220 If you're trying to get it to make

00:44:13.200 sense, then you pop in with this,

00:44:14.880 you know, this last minute image of

00:44:16.960 Kyle pointing it at somebody else

00:44:18.640 and then that can help them make

00:44:20.260 more sense of it.

00:44:21.400 And in the background, you hear all

00:44:22.600 of the screaming and you find

00:44:24.140 maybe this is how I can relieve

00:44:25.780 myself of this pressure.

00:44:27.180 I can use this image and that can

00:44:29.120 that can be my justification in my

00:44:30.880 mind to come to a guilty verdict

00:44:32.560 so I can, you know, skirt what may

00:44:34.520 be, you know, so a civil unrest

00:44:36.860 situation.

00:44:37.740 Do you know, Richard, if the jurors in

00:44:39.060 Wisconsin are allowed to speak

00:44:40.500 after the verdict?

00:44:41.920 Can you say that again?

00:44:43.080 What was that?

00:44:43.320 Do you guys know whether the jurors in

00:44:44.600 Wisconsin are allowed to speak after

00:44:46.180 the verdict if they want to?

00:44:47.640 Yeah, Robert, I mean, you probably

00:44:48.860 answered that better than me.

00:44:50.240 Yeah, legally, they're absolutely

00:44:51.320 entitled to.

00:44:51.980 Now, the prosecutor came out and said

00:44:53.600 he's not going to talk after the

00:44:54.760 verdict no matter what, which is

00:44:56.520 kind of odd because the ethics

00:44:57.780 rules don't prohibit that.

00:44:58.940 I think the prosecutor was

00:45:00.100 anticipating either a mistrial or

00:45:02.660 an acquittal, and he was just

00:45:04.160 coming out in advance trying to get

00:45:05.380 his excuse.

00:45:06.260 But it's up to the jury entirely.

00:45:07.940 The jury can talk to the public.

00:45:09.860 They can choose not to talk to the

00:45:11.220 public.

00:45:11.480 I believe their names ultimately

00:45:13.380 will become public.

00:45:14.580 They just won't be public probably

00:45:15.860 for several months, much like the

00:45:17.360 Chauvin jurors.

00:45:18.600 But they all know that ultimately

00:45:20.120 they can't keep their information

00:45:21.740 fully private in most cases.

00:45:24.680 The judge may change that in this

00:45:26.400 case, depending if the threats

00:45:27.940 against the judge end up being

00:45:29.480 threats against the jury.

00:45:30.620 And that was part of my concern.

00:45:32.000 You have these loud, riotous crowd

00:45:34.140 right outside, basically demanding

00:45:36.160 the jury do a certain verdict, trying

00:45:37.940 to influence the jury by being there,

00:45:39.740 not the court of public opinion.

00:45:41.920 Second, you have the governor of

00:45:43.600 Wisconsin who refused to call out

00:45:44.940 the National Guard during the

00:45:45.960 riots, telling everybody he's going

00:45:47.800 to call out the National Guard

00:45:48.740 before the jury went and started

00:45:50.980 their deliberations, which is a

00:45:52.320 signal that he wants them to vote

00:45:54.120 a certain way so that there won't

00:45:55.320 be unrest.

00:45:56.820 And then you have the unrest that's

00:45:58.440 happened after other cases that

00:46:00.340 they got to witness.

00:46:01.000 This all kind of all started after

00:46:02.460 the Rodney King acquittals in

00:46:04.880 1992 in L.A.

00:46:06.280 And everything went nuts.

00:46:07.780 And ever since then, everybody's

00:46:08.900 been scared that the wrong

00:46:10.440 verdict will lead to civil

00:46:12.260 unrest.

00:46:12.980 And that's why those any

00:46:14.380 juror who was motivated by that

00:46:16.100 concern should not

00:46:17.560 have been on the jury.

00:46:19.180 And there should have been better

00:46:20.380 questions during jury selection

00:46:21.900 to make sure that couldn't and

00:46:23.720 shouldn't happen.

00:46:24.400 Where now there's, you know, the

00:46:26.060 the broad concern is that that's

00:46:27.840 what's influencing the jury, the

00:46:29.500 court of public opinion and people

00:46:31.000 being angry at them, not the facts

00:46:32.980 and the law in the case.

00:46:33.940 As the days go on, the criminal

00:46:36.240 defense lawyers have got to be

00:46:37.940 second guessing their decision to

00:46:40.660 skip a more in-depth jury, you

00:46:43.740 know, vetting process.

00:46:46.060 If they wind up getting a mistrial

00:46:48.000 at all, one without prejudice, I

00:46:51.780 have a feeling they're going to be

00:46:52.700 calling you, Richard.

00:46:53.820 You guys, thank you both so much.

00:46:55.540 Pleasure talking to you.

00:46:56.940 Coming up, we're going to be joined

00:46:57.960 by Andrew Branca.

00:46:59.300 Plus, Governor Chris Christie is

00:47:00.580 here.

00:47:00.900 Don't go away.

00:47:03.940 Back with me today, Andrew

00:47:08.440 Branca, attorney in self-defense

00:47:10.260 law and his practice Law of

00:47:12.140 Self-Defense LLC works to help

00:47:13.920 armed law abiding citizens make

00:47:15.760 better and informed decisions.

00:47:18.020 Branca has been following this

00:47:18.840 trial very closely, more closely

00:47:21.440 than virtually anybody who's not

00:47:22.840 actually getting paid to be there

00:47:24.100 and reporting on what he has seen

00:47:25.960 at legal insurrection in must read

00:47:28.320 dispatches.

00:47:29.240 Andrew, thanks for being back.

00:47:30.200 Your thoughts now on a jury that's,

00:47:32.180 I guess, now 11 hours into its

00:47:35.320 deliberation on what many of us

00:47:37.060 thought would probably, if it were

00:47:38.520 going to go for Kyle, be a quick

00:47:39.780 turnaround.

00:47:40.760 Yes.

00:47:41.000 Well, as I mentioned yesterday, we

00:47:42.520 found ourselves deep into the second

00:47:44.080 day of deliberations.

00:47:45.160 It's not a great sign for the defense.

00:47:47.360 But of course, the whole deliberation

00:47:49.020 process now is looking more and more

00:47:50.520 like just a hot mess.

00:47:52.220 I'm sure you know.

00:47:53.060 In fact, I heard Councillor Barnes on

00:47:55.160 your show just a few minutes ago

00:47:56.180 talking about the request from the

00:47:58.460 jurors now to look at some of the

00:48:00.640 videos as exhibits of evidence in

00:48:03.520 the case.

00:48:04.420 And of course, the defense is

00:48:05.400 particularly concerned about this

00:48:06.560 whole drone video issue where they

00:48:08.440 were given a much lower 1 16th

00:48:11.500 resolution version of this critically

00:48:14.100 important drone video than what the

00:48:16.620 prosecution ended up showing the jury.

00:48:18.900 And this is the key to the

00:48:20.600 prosecution's narrative of guilt here.

00:48:22.320 This notion that Kyle provoked the

00:48:25.300 attack of Rosenbaum and that

00:48:27.540 triggered everything else that

00:48:28.820 happened.

00:48:29.680 And the only evidence they have for

00:48:31.220 this provocation is this drone video

00:48:33.620 that they effectively did not provide

00:48:36.020 to the defense in anything like the

00:48:37.780 resolution that the jury was ultimately

00:48:39.260 going to see.

00:48:40.440 And explain that.

00:48:41.240 So what was the time difference between

00:48:43.240 the moment Kyle allegedly pulled a

00:48:45.960 gun on Zeminski and I guess

00:48:48.540 Rosenbaum not far away and when

00:48:51.360 Zeminski and Rosenbaum started to

00:48:53.420 chase Kyle Rittenhouse?

00:48:54.720 So Zeminski never chased him.

00:48:57.180 Zeminski stayed where he was by those

00:48:59.820 four cars where Rosenbaum was in an

00:49:01.840 apparent ambush position.

00:49:03.620 But it's it's within a second or so of

00:49:07.440 when Kyle was supposed to have pointed

00:49:09.300 the rifle and when Rosenbaum was

00:49:11.580 provoked.

00:49:12.620 And of course, a key issue here is when

00:49:14.220 the when the defense is given a low

00:49:15.540 resolution version and they look at it

00:49:17.320 themselves before they have their

00:49:18.800 witness, Kyle, their client, testify,

00:49:21.680 they're looking at that low resolution

00:49:22.940 version. And they're like, well, we

00:49:24.400 don't really have to worry about this

00:49:25.420 because you can't see any.

00:49:26.900 It's completely unclear.

00:49:28.120 It's not going to be compelling to the

00:49:29.320 jury. We don't need to spend a lot of

00:49:30.860 time addressing this.

00:49:32.300 When you then discover that what the

00:49:33.860 jury is actually going to see is

00:49:35.180 something that's 16 times higher

00:49:37.100 resolution.

00:49:38.100 Well, you might have prepared your

00:49:39.920 client to testify

00:49:41.100 in a different way, not to lie, but to

00:49:44.180 emphasize different things about the

00:49:45.840 experience that was actually the case.

00:49:47.480 And the defense didn't know this higher

00:49:49.680 resolution version existed until after

00:49:52.000 the evidence had closed.

00:49:54.340 So they simply did not have a chance,

00:49:56.720 an opportunity to adequately prepare

00:49:58.840 their client to provide his testimony.

00:50:01.640 Have you seen the enhanced video?

00:50:03.760 I confess I didn't pay that close

00:50:05.240 attention in the closings to see if the

00:50:07.400 video and the screen grab looked way

00:50:08.860 better than what we had seen earlier.

00:50:10.940 You know, I do have a copy of the high

00:50:13.020 resolution version and I can't see

00:50:15.280 anything definite out of it.

00:50:17.400 We know we have footage of the judge in

00:50:19.440 the courtroom spending some 30 minutes

00:50:21.180 reviewing these few seconds of video

00:50:23.540 over and over and over again, looking

00:50:26.520 for what the prosecution claimed is

00:50:29.520 obvious to see and he couldn't see it.

00:50:32.100 I certainly can't see it.

00:50:33.780 I don't expect the jury can see it.

00:50:35.620 But again, as we talked about yesterday,

00:50:37.300 what we're concerned about here is, you

00:50:38.840 know, having one interested juror who's

00:50:41.180 just looking for an excuse, any excuse,

00:50:43.760 a thin read of an excuse not to vote

00:50:46.220 for acquittal, then you have a hung

00:50:47.980 jury and Prosecutor Binger gets to do

00:50:50.340 this all over again to Kyle Rittenhouse.

00:50:52.840 I'm sure showing the high resolution

00:50:54.500 video as you speak, Andrew, just FYI

00:50:56.760 of the confrontation without circling

00:50:59.840 the participants and so on.

00:51:01.300 It doesn't make much sense, but it does

00:51:03.020 look actually like better quality than

00:51:05.200 what we had been looking at.

00:51:06.700 I want to tell you that the jury has

00:51:08.180 sent out another note.

00:51:09.560 Tell our audience that we don't know

00:51:11.180 what the note reads, how it reads,

00:51:12.840 what they're asking.

00:51:14.000 And the judge has apparently made a

00:51:15.820 comment, Andrew, on the media

00:51:17.520 and his dissatisfaction with them and

00:51:20.040 saying this may be the last case

00:51:22.220 he ever has presides over in which he

00:51:25.320 allows cameras in the courthouse,

00:51:27.800 in the courtroom.

00:51:29.320 And I'm sure he's getting a taste of what

00:51:31.420 we live every day, which is total

00:51:33.180 distortion by the media and utter

00:51:36.380 unfairness to anyone they perceive as

00:51:39.260 not on their side, whatever their side

00:51:41.180 is, it tends to be left-leaning and

00:51:42.780 certainly in a case of self-defense.

00:51:44.160 And, you know, if you're a white kid

00:51:45.400 like Kyle Rittenhouse and a boy, a man,

00:51:47.560 forget it.

00:51:48.900 And he pointed out, I guess, one of the

00:51:50.820 things that was irritating him was the

00:51:52.680 way the media was criticizing his jury,

00:51:54.580 the final jury selection process.

00:51:56.160 They had the sort of greater pool, the

00:51:58.240 greater, you know, group.

00:52:00.020 And then he had to get rid of six and get

00:52:02.760 it down to 12.

00:52:03.380 And I guess he let Kyle Rittenhouse pick

00:52:04.920 just random numbers out of a bag.

00:52:08.460 And that's how we got rid of the six.

00:52:10.720 And this is something the judge has done

00:52:11.800 for a long time.

00:52:12.480 But the media tries to make a big deal

00:52:13.900 out of it.

00:52:14.220 Like, this is absurd.

00:52:15.080 The judge is an idiot and so on.

00:52:17.500 Well, unfortunately, the judge's

00:52:18.580 proposed solution moving forward for

00:52:20.840 future cases to not have cameras in the

00:52:22.860 courtroom would just make things worse

00:52:24.620 because then the only insight we would

00:52:27.260 have into what's happening in the

00:52:28.580 courtroom comes from the media that he

00:52:30.240 claims is causing the problem here.

00:52:32.680 Misreporting on what's going on,

00:52:33.960 mischaracterizing what's going on in the

00:52:35.460 courtroom.

00:52:35.720 So I certainly don't think that not

00:52:37.900 having cameras there is is in any way

00:52:40.200 a solution to the problem he perceives,

00:52:42.120 which is suddenly finding himself

00:52:44.360 exposed to a level of scrutiny that

00:52:47.240 apparently he's never experienced before.

00:52:50.080 Mm hmm.

00:52:50.620 Can we talk for a minute about about

00:52:52.340 Jacob Blake?

00:52:53.040 Because you are an expert on self

00:52:54.220 defense, and that's one of the reasons

00:52:56.180 that you're interested in the Kyle case.

00:52:57.380 But also the Jacob Blake case is

00:52:58.800 directly related.

00:52:59.680 I mean, it's actually related and what

00:53:01.460 happened two days before the Kyle

00:53:03.340 case. But people

00:53:05.680 don't seem to understand that

00:53:07.780 in the case of Joseph Rosenbaum,

00:53:09.660 Kyle, he fired four

00:53:11.300 times. In the case of Jacob Blake, the

00:53:13.040 police officer fired seven

00:53:14.400 times. And this hangs up

00:53:16.260 a lot of people. A lot of moms

00:53:17.940 I know will say

00:53:19.300 that's too many. That's you know, he

00:53:21.540 could have shot the one time and

00:53:22.800 incapacitated him.

00:53:24.300 You know, if the other guy doesn't

00:53:25.240 have a gun, like why did Jacob Blake

00:53:26.680 have to get shot seven times and why

00:53:28.020 did Rosenbaum have to take four

00:53:29.260 bullets?

00:53:29.560 And you help us understand why the

00:53:32.320 law doesn't immediately

00:53:33.800 condemn that.

00:53:35.520 Well, the law says you can use as

00:53:37.160 much force as you need to use to

00:53:38.960 neutralize the threat.

00:53:40.100 Jacob Blake was within feet of the

00:53:41.560 officer. He had a knife, a very large,

00:53:43.900 sharp knife in his hand.

00:53:45.640 He could easily have turned and

00:53:46.820 slashed that officer with a knife and

00:53:48.180 caused a fatal

00:53:49.620 or serious bodily injury wound to the

00:53:51.860 officer. He had to be neutralized

00:53:53.320 immediately. He was getting into a car

00:53:54.920 with children in it.

00:53:56.380 He'd been known to drive this poor

00:53:58.240 woman's car, whose it was, it wasn't

00:53:59.920 his own car, and crash it

00:54:01.900 deliberately.

00:54:03.000 So the police were concerned about

00:54:04.840 all of this, including the

00:54:06.160 potential for a deadly force

00:54:08.080 attack by him.

00:54:09.240 He was non-compliant with lawful

00:54:10.680 arrest by the officers, again,

00:54:12.100 armed with a knife in his hand.

00:54:14.020 I noticed when the New York Times

00:54:15.220 covers this Jacob Blake story, they

00:54:16.940 showed a little video clips of the

00:54:18.340 event and they always edit out the

00:54:20.100 portions where you can actually

00:54:21.260 clearly see the knife in Jacob

00:54:22.760 Blake's hand.

00:54:23.680 That's why people are upset about

00:54:25.620 that event, because they think

00:54:27.120 literally an unarmed man was just

00:54:29.320 shot in the back seven times by

00:54:30.820 police for no good reason.

00:54:32.440 That's not what actually happened,

00:54:33.640 but because that's how the media

00:54:34.880 reports it.

00:54:36.160 Well, people only know what they

00:54:38.300 see, what is reported to them.

00:54:40.140 So they believe that false

00:54:41.100 narrative.

00:54:41.680 And of course, they're outraged.

00:54:43.200 Anybody would be outraged if that

00:54:44.640 was the truth.

00:54:45.500 And Kenosha burns to the ground

00:54:47.120 because of the way the media

00:54:49.080 falsely reported the event.

00:54:51.340 Yes.

00:54:51.880 And they did repeatedly report that

00:54:53.600 Jacob Blake was unarmed before they

00:54:55.400 knew what the truth was.

00:54:56.660 Then when the reports came out that

00:54:58.080 he was armed, they rejected them.

00:54:59.840 As I said in my talking points,

00:55:01.020 my people like me who said there

00:55:02.160 are reports he was armed.

00:55:03.380 You got called a racist, right?

00:55:04.560 So, I mean, listen, I don't care

00:55:05.880 what they call me, but most people

00:55:07.160 do care.

00:55:07.660 So it shuts them down from saying

00:55:09.800 what they understand is the new

00:55:11.380 truth is the real truth that's

00:55:12.900 being reported.

00:55:13.600 And the narrative goes on and on.

00:55:15.720 But in the Jacob Blake case, you

00:55:16.920 literally had the soon to be vice

00:55:18.640 president of the United States say

00:55:19.960 she was proud of him, proud of

00:55:22.820 Jacob Blake, who, again, had been

00:55:25.100 he had raped his wife.

00:55:27.160 He had digitally raped his

00:55:28.400 girlfriend with their young son

00:55:30.300 on the bed.

00:55:31.240 No, no proud.

00:55:32.680 That's a totally inappropriate

00:55:33.860 comment.

00:55:34.260 And she and Joe Biden tried to

00:55:36.300 paint this as part of a pattern of

00:55:37.560 a black man getting unfairly

00:55:39.140 targeted by the police.

00:55:40.760 Then we saw something similar in

00:55:42.740 the closing argument by Binger

00:55:44.100 about Kyle Rittenhouse and

00:55:45.780 his targets the other day

00:55:49.080 where he was specifically told

00:55:50.980 before the trial, don't don't try

00:55:52.560 to paint these guys as heroes.

00:55:54.260 Otherwise, the judge said, I'm

00:55:55.700 going to let their criminal

00:55:56.420 histories in.

00:55:57.620 And boy, he got dangerously

00:55:59.120 close.

00:55:59.660 He used the word heroes.

00:56:01.660 Here's what Binger said in

00:56:02.580 closing about the men who

00:56:04.020 Kyle shot.

00:56:05.700 And every day we read about

00:56:06.620 heroes that stop active

00:56:08.380 shooters.

00:56:11.860 That's what was going on here.

00:56:14.100 And that crowd was right.

00:56:17.020 And that crowd was full of

00:56:18.880 heroes.

00:56:20.080 That's.

00:56:20.980 Crazy.

00:56:21.740 Like, I don't know why the

00:56:22.820 defense wasn't on its feet

00:56:24.140 immediately.

00:56:25.820 Well, unfortunately, this is

00:56:27.060 during closing arguments.

00:56:28.240 The lawyers have a lot of

00:56:29.100 discretion in how they can

00:56:30.140 characterize things in

00:56:31.200 closing.

00:56:31.680 The jury's told that closing

00:56:33.040 argument is not evidence.

00:56:34.460 They're not to consider it as

00:56:35.500 evidence when they go into

00:56:36.320 deliberations.

00:56:37.100 Of course, it does influence

00:56:38.020 their thinking, as you would

00:56:38.980 expect.

00:56:39.860 And the defense had objected to

00:56:41.920 several statements made on

00:56:43.200 close.

00:56:43.760 And each time the judge had

00:56:45.080 simply overruled their

00:56:46.720 objection and said, listen, you

00:56:47.980 can counter argue this issue.

00:56:49.420 And when you're doing your own

00:56:50.420 defense closing argument and

00:56:52.100 the defense may have finally

00:56:53.480 just realized, you know,

00:56:54.860 there's no point to these

00:56:56.280 objections on these issues

00:56:57.340 because the judge is just going

00:56:58.740 to overrule us each time.

00:56:59.940 It's it's pointless.

00:57:00.640 I get that.

00:57:01.860 There's also strategic

00:57:02.900 consideration of I don't want to

00:57:04.300 look like I think this is

00:57:05.280 information that's bad for my

00:57:06.420 client and just keep being on my

00:57:08.320 feet saying objection,

00:57:09.280 objection.

00:57:09.640 You want to sort of let it roll

00:57:10.600 past like who cares.

00:57:11.960 But I have to say the reason

00:57:12.960 the reason this wasn't an OK

00:57:15.060 thing to say and an OK thing to

00:57:17.020 let pass as defense counsel was

00:57:18.500 because he couldn't get up on

00:57:21.000 on his closing the defense

00:57:23.040 counsel and rebut this because

00:57:24.980 the ammunition to disprove the

00:57:27.700 hero status of these guys

00:57:29.700 wasn't allowed in.

00:57:31.920 You know, I went back and

00:57:32.620 looked at it.

00:57:33.060 I understood that Rosenbaum,

00:57:34.180 the first guy Kyle shot, was a

00:57:35.380 convicted child molester and

00:57:36.480 actually looked at the actual

00:57:37.340 charges and he was faced with

00:57:39.120 multiple.

00:57:39.860 I think it was, gosh, it might

00:57:40.800 have been 11, 11 counts of

00:57:42.940 raping.

00:57:43.600 Yeah.

00:57:44.100 Of raping young boys between the

00:57:45.500 ages of five and 11.

00:57:46.560 OK, charged and then cut a plea

00:57:48.380 deal, copying to two.

00:57:50.220 So this guy anally raped young

00:57:51.960 boys.

00:57:52.780 The first man shot.

00:57:54.420 He was not a hero in any way.

00:57:56.580 The second man shot.

00:57:58.760 Gross, sorry, Huber.

00:58:01.140 He also had a long criminal

00:58:02.840 history.

00:58:03.140 According to the Daily Mail, he

00:58:05.140 had assaulted family members.

00:58:06.800 He had he had put a knife to his

00:58:09.900 brother's stomach saying he was

00:58:11.180 going to gut him like a pig that

00:58:13.080 he would kill him, grabbed the

00:58:14.500 brother by the neck, dug his nails

00:58:15.760 in, choked him for approximately

00:58:17.180 10 seconds, put a knife to his

00:58:19.500 brother's left ear and his brother

00:58:20.880 felt it cut, said he was going to

00:58:22.720 burn the house down with all you

00:58:24.180 efforts in in it and so on.

00:58:26.680 OK, so that's Huber.

00:58:28.140 Then the third guy, Grosskreutz,

00:58:30.380 he's a violent career criminal,

00:58:32.400 too, according to the Daily Mail.

00:58:34.520 Laundry list of prior offenses,

00:58:35.800 convictions going back more than a

00:58:37.780 decade, domestic abuse, prowling,

00:58:39.620 trespass, two DUIs, felony

00:58:41.080 burglary, two charges of carrying a

00:58:43.000 firearm while intoxicated.

00:58:44.640 On and on it goes.

00:58:46.000 And then 10 days before he was shot

00:58:47.200 by Rittenhouse, he was arrested by

00:58:49.060 West Dallas police and charged with

00:58:50.240 prowling when he was caught

00:58:51.620 videotaping a police officer or

00:58:54.200 their vehicles in the parking lot

00:58:56.060 at 1 a.m.

00:58:57.440 Very strong anti-law enforcement

00:58:59.040 views and so on.

00:59:00.280 He apparently struck his own

00:59:01.740 grandmother in the face or was

00:59:03.080 accused of doing that, smashing a

00:59:04.920 lamp, damaging the drywall against

00:59:06.580 which he hurled it back in 2010.

00:59:07.940 I mean, the nerve, Andrew.

00:59:10.980 Heroes?

00:59:11.740 Who do they think they're kidding?

00:59:12.920 But it's all part of the narrative

00:59:14.020 that the person who fires the gun

00:59:15.380 has got to be bad and those who get

00:59:17.240 shot by it have got to be good.

00:59:19.320 Yeah, I think we really, frankly,

00:59:20.700 need a change in the rules of

00:59:22.340 evidence for this kind of character

00:59:24.040 evidence of purported victims.

00:59:25.840 I'm using scare quotes there again

00:59:27.180 in these self-defense cases.

00:59:28.940 These are often very, very bad

00:59:30.940 actors, and that's who the defender

00:59:33.040 had to deal with in the real world

00:59:35.360 in this fight with them.

00:59:38.120 I think it gives a very bad

00:59:39.540 perception when you have the person

00:59:41.240 who defended themselves charged with

00:59:42.680 the use of force crime claiming

00:59:43.960 self-defense.

00:59:45.200 And everything about them is

00:59:46.520 exposed, but you don't know

00:59:48.040 anything about the person who had

00:59:49.620 who attacked them against which

00:59:51.300 they against whom they had to

00:59:52.460 defend themselves.

00:59:53.800 I think it's wrong.

00:59:54.900 There are exceptions to the rules

00:59:56.580 of evidence that allow character

00:59:57.760 evidence in under certain

00:59:59.020 circumstances, and I think a case

01:00:01.120 of self-defense should be among

01:00:02.180 them.

01:00:03.080 And certainly if the prosecution

01:00:04.780 opens the door by calling them

01:00:07.180 heroes and he got dangerously close

01:00:08.900 during the course of the trial to

01:00:10.040 overselling these guys to that

01:00:12.560 they if they open the door, you run

01:00:14.160 through it as defense counsel like

01:00:15.700 great view you want to go let's go

01:00:18.240 Rosenbaum is a child rapist.

01:00:20.320 He's no hero and this guy Huber

01:00:22.440 who's you know attacking his

01:00:24.240 brother with a knife no hero and

01:00:25.940 this guy gross Kreutz with his long

01:00:28.120 history, but you know gross Kreutz

01:00:29.580 takes the stand.

01:00:30.840 He's got his hair looking nice.

01:00:32.140 He's got his beard, you know, now

01:00:33.840 nicely camped and he's presented as

01:00:36.560 just this poor guy who got his arm

01:00:37.960 shot off.

01:00:38.540 Whereas we know this guy has a has a

01:00:41.360 long career of rebel rousing.

01:00:42.880 And by the way, Andrew, you heard the

01:00:45.320 prosecutor in the closing get up there

01:00:46.600 and say who goes out on a night like

01:00:49.220 this?

01:00:49.700 I didn't I didn't go out.

01:00:51.660 Did you go out?

01:00:52.700 I stayed at home.

01:00:53.700 Like what kind of a person even goes

01:00:55.620 out?

01:00:56.280 Well, at least Kyle Rittenhouse was at

01:00:58.680 least trying to keep the peace.

01:01:00.440 His motive was at least pure going in

01:01:02.920 there.

01:01:03.460 Unlike these other three guys who were

01:01:05.920 there to cause trouble.

01:01:08.120 Yeah, I mean, Kyle wasn't even there

01:01:10.040 to try to keep the peace, per se, to

01:01:12.020 play the role of a police officer.

01:01:13.420 He was merely there to provide first

01:01:14.680 aid to people.

01:01:15.680 The only reason he had a gun with him

01:01:16.900 at all was because he wanted to be

01:01:18.940 able to defend himself if he ran into

01:01:20.600 a lunatic who tried to kill him, which

01:01:22.480 is exactly what happened and which is

01:01:24.040 why he needed the gun repeatedly to

01:01:26.500 fight off serial murderous attacks on

01:01:29.500 him.

01:01:30.240 And the only reason he was there was to

01:01:31.580 provide medical care to people who

01:01:33.560 might be injured.

01:01:34.240 You can't say the same for the people

01:01:36.000 who attack them.

01:01:37.540 Right.

01:01:38.220 Exactly right.

01:01:39.280 And the jury.

01:01:40.020 So the jury in some ways is fighting

01:01:42.180 with its hands tied behind their

01:01:44.160 back because they don't have all the

01:01:46.060 information.

01:01:46.440 There's a rule.

01:01:47.080 There's a reason that the rules of

01:01:48.140 evidence don't allow it.

01:01:49.080 But I think the prosecutor opened the

01:01:50.800 door and I think the jury should have

01:01:52.920 known of what kind of men Kyle

01:01:54.200 Rittenhouse was facing that night.

01:01:55.920 Andrew, always a pleasure.

01:01:56.940 Hope we can do it again when we get

01:01:58.180 more info.

01:01:59.400 Thank you so much.

01:02:00.720 Coming up next, Governor Chris Christie

01:02:02.440 is with us.

01:02:03.320 I'm going to ask him about Kyle

01:02:04.500 Rittenhouse.

01:02:04.980 This is a guy who has a long history

01:02:06.440 in law enforcement as the New Jersey

01:02:08.280 AG before he was governor.

01:02:10.380 But he's also the author of a new

01:02:12.200 book, Republican Rescue, which is

01:02:14.240 making waves in the media and the

01:02:15.680 political world.

01:02:17.080 And I'd love to ask him about it.

01:02:23.240 Joining me is former governor of New

01:02:25.320 Jersey, Chris Christie.

01:02:26.480 He's the author of the new book,

01:02:28.080 Republican Rescue, saving the party

01:02:30.600 from truth deniers, conspiracy

01:02:32.340 theorists and the dangerous

01:02:34.340 policies of Joe Biden.

01:02:36.640 Welcome back, Governor.

01:02:37.360 Great to have you.

01:02:38.720 Great to be back, Megan.

01:02:39.980 Can we just start with what happened

01:02:41.020 in New Jersey a couple of weeks ago?

01:02:42.560 I mean, how stunned were you when it

01:02:44.100 was as tight as it was in the

01:02:45.440 Democrat almost lost Murphy?

01:02:48.200 I have to tell you, I wasn't that

01:02:49.940 stunned, Megan.

01:02:50.540 I was saying on TV for two weeks,

01:02:53.160 two Sundays before that this was

01:02:55.520 going to be a lot closer than people

01:02:56.600 thought and that we should be talking

01:02:58.360 about both states, not just about

01:02:59.660 Virginia, because I could feel it in

01:03:02.000 New Jersey.

01:03:02.500 I could feel Cittarelli getting the

01:03:04.340 momentum and the national, you know,

01:03:07.400 wins in the Democrats face definitely

01:03:09.100 helped.

01:03:10.140 And he just came up a little bit short,

01:03:11.780 two and a half points short.

01:03:13.300 But we won three seats in the state

01:03:16.280 Senate and we won six, maybe eight

01:03:19.200 seats in the state assembly.

01:03:21.820 So it was a very, very good night up

01:03:24.560 and down the ballot for Republicans in

01:03:26.560 New Jersey, not quite as good as

01:03:28.060 Virginia because they got the

01:03:29.300 governorship, but pretty good.

01:03:30.360 What do you make of Mr.

01:03:31.620 Durr, the truck driver, unseating the

01:03:34.020 Senate leader?

01:03:35.440 That's totally the doing of Phil

01:03:37.360 Murphy.

01:03:38.140 He lost the sitting Democrat governor

01:03:40.440 Steve Sweeney's district, Gloucester,

01:03:44.060 Cumberland and Salem.

01:03:46.160 Phil Murphy lost those counties to

01:03:48.080 Jack Cittarelli by 10 points, by 24

01:03:52.420 points and by 14 points.

01:03:54.640 So when you're the next guy down on

01:03:56.460 the ballot, which is Steve Sweeney

01:03:57.800 was, you're asking a lot to do that

01:04:00.000 much crossover voting.

01:04:01.260 And he just got caught in the red

01:04:03.600 tsunami down in South Jersey.

01:04:06.440 And Ed Durr, who, you know, wound up

01:04:09.100 spending about $8,000 total on his

01:04:11.620 campaign, is the is the happy

01:04:14.300 beneficiary of of Phil Murphy's

01:04:17.040 ineptitude.

01:04:17.660 I thought it was 150.

01:04:19.100 I never heard the 8,000.

01:04:20.880 Yeah, he spent 150.

01:04:22.240 That was in his 10 day pre-report.

01:04:25.080 But in the last 10 days, he spent about

01:04:26.860 about seventy five hundred bucks in

01:04:29.760 addition to the hundred fifty three

01:04:31.460 bucks he had spent before.

01:04:33.160 And his opponent had spent millions to

01:04:35.700 get elected in the first place.

01:04:36.920 OK, can I ask you about Kyle Rittenhouse?

01:04:39.140 Because I know obviously you have a long

01:04:40.640 history in law enforcement before he

01:04:41.940 became governor.

01:04:42.600 You were the top lawyer in New Jersey.

01:04:44.740 And I did a long talking points memo at

01:04:47.480 the start of the show talking about how

01:04:49.100 the media and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris

01:04:52.400 and Governor Evers in Wisconsin all had a

01:04:55.480 hand in in the anger that we're seeing on

01:04:58.520 the streets of Kenosha and in what brought

01:05:01.100 us to this courtroom right now.

01:05:03.000 You know, in the wake of Jacob Blake, the

01:05:04.640 rush to judgment, the public statements by

01:05:06.880 all the people I just mentioned saying that

01:05:09.100 this was an unarmed black man.

01:05:10.660 This is part of a pattern by police that it's

01:05:12.940 an outrage, you know, Kamala Harris saying

01:05:15.160 she was proud of Jacob Blake and so on.

01:05:17.300 It was pretty outrageous.

01:05:18.500 And now we know, thanks to even Joe

01:05:21.140 Biden's attorney general, it was a

01:05:23.080 justified shooting by the police.

01:05:24.500 No one could have been charged by the

01:05:25.720 cop. No cop could have been charged for

01:05:27.420 his behavior.

01:05:28.280 Jacob Blake admits having a knife and so on.

01:05:30.420 The rush to judgment in the media was

01:05:31.980 not would not reflect that.

01:05:33.220 There was no soul searching.

01:05:34.720 Nobody, very few media outlets corrected

01:05:36.860 the unarmed part of that reporting.

01:05:38.580 And then they did it again in the case

01:05:41.380 of Kyle Rittenhouse. The same pattern

01:05:43.580 again. I see this as a huge

01:05:45.560 problem in our in our legal system.

01:05:47.880 What do you think?

01:05:49.040 It's an enormous problem.

01:05:50.180 And I will tell you that, you know, when

01:05:52.160 I was a prosecutor, the last thing you

01:05:53.900 wanted was politicians

01:05:55.760 or any type of public figures

01:05:57.720 talking about the case before

01:05:59.840 you really knew what the case was.

01:06:01.860 And the lack of discipline being shown

01:06:04.140 here is driven, I think,

01:06:05.800 in part by social media

01:06:07.700 and also in part by

01:06:09.800 the by the enormous

01:06:11.660 pressure that the

01:06:13.140 the unbelievably liberal left

01:06:15.120 is putting on the people

01:06:17.060 who want to be part of the Democratic

01:06:18.240 Party. And if you are not singing

01:06:20.000 from their hymnal 24

01:06:21.540 hours a day, seven days a week,

01:06:23.500 they will cancel you.

01:06:25.100 And so I think a lot of people

01:06:27.040 felt a lot of pressure

01:06:27.980 illogically to

01:06:29.800 comment on the Rittenhouse case

01:06:31.460 before anybody knew what the hell

01:06:33.120 the facts were.

01:06:34.280 Mm hmm.

01:06:34.880 Yeah. First Jacob Blake

01:06:35.940 and now Rittenhouse, this

01:06:37.980 president, while running

01:06:39.760 for office, called

01:06:41.460 Kyle Rittenhouse

01:06:42.500 a white supremacist.

01:06:44.560 All right. And there's been

01:06:45.280 zero evidence of that.

01:06:47.040 Zero evidence of that at trial,

01:06:48.460 not a word.

01:06:49.960 And even the stuff said

01:06:51.380 about Kyle Rittenhouse

01:06:52.200 outside of the courthouse by

01:06:53.820 an irresponsible media

01:06:55.280 has not held up.

01:06:56.980 So the the man

01:06:58.280 then running for president,

01:06:59.160 now sitting president,

01:07:00.160 calls this kid a white supremacist.

01:07:01.620 The jury hears that.

01:07:03.000 And Jen Psaki was asked

01:07:04.360 about the irresponsibility

01:07:06.080 of that by I think

01:07:07.880 it was Peter Ducey

01:07:08.500 of Fox News the other day.

01:07:09.440 Take a listen to what she said.

01:07:11.280 Why did President Biden

01:07:12.380 suggest that Kyle

01:07:14.120 Rittenhouse on trial

01:07:15.740 in Kenosha

01:07:16.460 is a white supremacist?

01:07:20.960 So, Peter,

01:07:21.900 what I'm not going to speak

01:07:23.220 to right now is anything

01:07:24.320 about an ongoing trial

01:07:25.720 nor the president's

01:07:27.300 past comments.

01:07:29.060 We shouldn't have,

01:07:30.040 broadly speaking,

01:07:31.380 vigilantes patrolling

01:07:32.420 our communities

01:07:32.980 with assault weapons.

01:07:34.060 We shouldn't have opportunists

01:07:35.100 corrupting peaceful protests

01:07:36.360 by rioting

01:07:37.080 and burning down

01:07:38.000 the communities

01:07:38.460 they claim to represent.

01:07:41.200 Now she doesn't want

01:07:42.080 to talk about it, Governor.

01:07:42.960 Now, now she doesn't

01:07:44.500 think it's appropriate.

01:07:46.780 Yeah, look,

01:07:48.000 you know,

01:07:48.760 they once again

01:07:49.520 got caught with their hands

01:07:50.420 in the cookie jar

01:07:51.140 and they never want to

01:07:52.660 they never want to admit it,

01:07:54.580 apologize or correct

01:07:56.600 their ways.

01:07:57.760 And it's a

01:07:58.760 it's a typical pattern

01:07:59.860 of Joe Biden.

01:08:00.580 And there's a there's

01:08:01.680 an arrogance inside

01:08:02.700 that administration

01:08:03.620 that that is coupled

01:08:06.140 with an incompetence

01:08:07.400 that makes them

01:08:08.400 a very dangerous group.

01:08:10.160 When you add them

01:08:11.360 their self-righteousness

01:08:12.340 to it,

01:08:13.260 it makes it despicable.

01:08:16.240 One of the dynamics

01:08:16.880 in the Virginia race,

01:08:18.020 in the New Jersey race,

01:08:19.220 in these cases,

01:08:20.480 Jacob Blake,

01:08:21.080 Kyle Rittenhouse

01:08:21.680 is race itself.

01:08:22.900 And we see this being pushed

01:08:24.080 by, you know,

01:08:24.960 the far left at every turn.

01:08:26.520 Everything's been racialized.

01:08:27.960 You know,

01:08:28.260 Kyle Rittenhouse

01:08:28.780 crying on the stand,

01:08:30.100 ripped, ripped

01:08:31.080 by some on the left

01:08:32.260 as white privilege

01:08:34.300 as some of these

01:08:35.320 Joy Reads,

01:08:36.060 I think it called it

01:08:36.600 white, white crocodile tears,

01:08:39.140 not just not just tears,

01:08:40.920 white crocodile tears.

01:08:42.620 She continues to be.

01:08:43.880 I mean,

01:08:44.220 I don't think there's

01:08:45.200 a bigger just race baiter

01:08:47.020 on television right now.

01:08:48.760 Here is just a bit

01:08:49.500 of Joy Reade

01:08:50.120 doing a tick tock

01:08:51.280 about the Kyle

01:08:52.600 Rittenhouse case.

01:08:54.200 Listen.

01:08:56.880 It's Kyle Rittenhouse trial.

01:08:59.780 It reminded a lot of people

01:09:01.280 of something,

01:09:02.360 something,

01:09:03.140 I just can't remember

01:09:03.580 what it was.

01:09:04.460 Oh,

01:09:05.940 the Brett Kavanaugh hearings,

01:09:08.240 in which Brett Kavanaugh,

01:09:09.220 who had been accused

01:09:10.100 by a high school friend

01:09:11.300 of committing

01:09:12.180 sexual abuse of her,

01:09:15.260 cried his way

01:09:16.420 through the hearings

01:09:18.300 to make him

01:09:18.960 a permanent member

01:09:20.060 and associate justice

01:09:22.320 of the United States

01:09:23.140 Supreme Court.

01:09:23.740 And his tears

01:09:26.360 turned out

01:09:27.060 to be more powerful

01:09:28.180 than the tears

01:09:29.300 of Christine Blasey Ford,

01:09:30.960 which were the tears

01:09:31.920 of an alleged victim.

01:09:34.120 But in America,

01:09:35.300 there's a thing

01:09:36.440 about both

01:09:37.900 white vigilantism

01:09:39.020 and white tears,

01:09:41.320 particularly

01:09:41.880 male white tears.

01:09:44.980 Really white tears

01:09:45.680 in general,

01:09:46.260 because that's

01:09:47.120 what carrots are,

01:09:47.740 right?

01:09:48.500 They carrot out

01:09:49.220 and then as soon

01:09:49.660 as they get caught,

01:09:50.160 it's like,

01:09:50.720 green waterworks.

01:09:53.780 White men can get away

01:09:54.840 with that too.

01:09:55.740 And it has the same effect.

01:09:57.560 Even as

01:09:58.700 the right

01:09:59.640 tries to politicize

01:10:01.100 the idea

01:10:01.680 that masculinity

01:10:02.560 is being robbed

01:10:03.540 from American men

01:10:04.500 by multiculturalism

01:10:05.740 and wokeism,

01:10:06.720 they still want

01:10:08.060 to be able

01:10:08.520 to have their tears.

01:10:09.560 I mean,

01:10:14.440 this is not unusual

01:10:16.760 to hear

01:10:17.800 out of the left-wing media,

01:10:19.680 right?

01:10:19.960 And it's a real problem.

01:10:21.900 And I wonder,

01:10:22.640 it's not that the government

01:10:23.500 should be cracking down

01:10:24.400 on the joy reeds

01:10:25.100 of the world,

01:10:25.820 but what do you think,

01:10:26.960 because you're writing a book

01:10:27.560 about reinventing

01:10:28.220 the Republican Party,

01:10:29.180 the solution is

01:10:30.240 to that insane

01:10:31.440 type of narrative

01:10:32.220 that's taken hold

01:10:33.560 of the Democratic Party,

01:10:35.000 of so many of our institutions,

01:10:36.400 including K-12 education?

01:10:37.820 Talk substance,

01:10:40.580 lay out a contrasting view,

01:10:42.520 and if you do it

01:10:43.240 effectively and persuasively,

01:10:45.020 you make her look

01:10:46.080 even more ridiculous

01:10:47.100 than she looks already.

01:10:48.860 And we just can't engage

01:10:50.380 in getting down

01:10:51.040 into the gutter

01:10:51.700 with them, Megan,

01:10:52.860 on this stuff,

01:10:53.900 because if we do,

01:10:55.400 they drag us down.

01:10:56.640 It's like I say in the book,

01:10:58.340 when the party's

01:10:58.960 talking about yesterday

01:10:59.860 and vendettas

01:11:01.380 and conspiracy theories,

01:11:03.360 denying the truth,

01:11:05.420 that's not attractive

01:11:06.500 to voters.

01:11:07.480 What's attractive

01:11:08.040 to voters are

01:11:08.660 what are you going

01:11:09.260 to do different

01:11:09.840 than the people

01:11:10.320 who are there now?

01:11:11.440 And why is your way better?

01:11:13.080 And that's what we have to do.

01:11:14.480 And I think with the joy

01:11:15.260 reads of the world,

01:11:16.400 we just have to make sure

01:11:17.600 that we continue

01:11:18.200 to talk about

01:11:18.980 what the reality is,

01:11:20.980 lay it next to what

01:11:21.820 she spews every night

01:11:23.000 on television,

01:11:23.740 and we'll wind up winning

01:11:26.220 most of those,

01:11:27.340 if not all of those arguments.

01:11:28.880 Mm-hmm.

01:11:29.380 Well, that's one of the reasons

01:11:30.240 why Virginia and New Jersey

01:11:31.320 were so encouraging,

01:11:32.200 because it does seem

01:11:33.800 like parents and voters

01:11:35.100 are pushing back

01:11:36.120 on this insanity.

01:11:37.460 I will give a shout-out

01:11:38.520 to Miranda Devine

01:11:39.260 of the New York Post,

01:11:39.960 who's always worth reading.

01:11:42.100 She talked about

01:11:43.260 Joy Reads saying,

01:11:44.380 This is a woman

01:11:45.520 on a seven-figure salary

01:11:46.880 who went to Harvard

01:11:47.820 who has more elite privilege

01:11:49.520 in her little finger

01:11:50.460 than the 17-year-old son

01:11:52.040 of a single mother

01:11:52.800 who was in Kenosha

01:11:54.220 working as a lifeguard

01:11:55.520 when all hell broke loose

01:11:57.000 in the form of BLM Antifa riots

01:11:59.000 in August 2020.

01:12:00.900 Yet she continually plays the victim

01:12:02.740 and makes her living,

01:12:04.420 punching down

01:12:05.200 at white people

01:12:06.320 less fortunate than she is.

01:12:09.560 Was incredibly cold,

01:12:11.360 incredibly heartless.

01:12:12.300 Your tears don't count

01:12:13.220 if you're white,

01:12:14.080 if you're a white man,

01:12:15.300 if you're a white,

01:12:15.840 I mean, it's insane

01:12:17.340 that anything connected to NBC

01:12:18.760 is putting this on the air.

01:12:20.420 Okay, so let's talk

01:12:21.500 about your book,

01:12:22.400 Rescuing Republicans,

01:12:24.740 Republican Rescue.

01:12:27.020 I understand you are,

01:12:28.500 you're sort of,

01:12:29.060 to me,

01:12:29.400 you tell me whether I'm wrong,

01:12:30.420 but you're sort of a guy

01:12:31.640 who believes

01:12:32.340 he can get those Republican women

01:12:34.440 who voted against Trump

01:12:35.720 in the last election

01:12:36.940 who were turned off

01:12:37.800 by his rhetoric,

01:12:39.760 you know,

01:12:40.240 didn't like the tweets

01:12:41.400 and all that.

01:12:41.920 You think you can get them,

01:12:43.560 if not you,

01:12:44.880 Chris Christie,

01:12:45.380 as a Republican nominee,

01:12:46.900 then the Republican Party

01:12:48.160 in general.

01:12:49.060 But you know you have

01:12:50.680 to hold on to the Trump base.

01:12:52.340 And it's been interesting

01:12:53.120 to me watching you

01:12:53.980 sort of give these interviews

01:12:55.020 and I think trying

01:12:56.560 to do that dance

01:12:57.300 where you don't totally

01:12:58.040 alienate the Trump base,

01:12:59.300 but you're still in reality

01:13:01.140 when it comes to what happened

01:13:02.560 with the 2020 election.

01:13:04.480 To me,

01:13:05.100 that seems like

01:13:05.700 it's going to be

01:13:06.180 a very tough

01:13:07.680 hoe to ride,

01:13:10.640 it's a tough road to hoe.

01:13:12.040 I just think like

01:13:13.020 true MAGA country,

01:13:14.860 are they going to elect somebody

01:13:16.380 or go for somebody

01:13:17.280 who's been as critical

01:13:18.100 of Trump as you have?

01:13:20.320 Well, you know,

01:13:21.140 first off,

01:13:22.180 all I've done

01:13:23.160 in the book

01:13:24.180 is what I do

01:13:25.260 and have done with him

01:13:26.560 for 20 years

01:13:27.340 of our friendship,

01:13:28.220 which is I tell him

01:13:29.080 the truth as I see it.

01:13:30.780 And sometimes he likes it

01:13:32.220 and sometimes he doesn't.

01:13:33.980 And sometimes voters

01:13:35.220 will like it

01:13:35.800 and sometimes they won't,

01:13:36.680 but they never have to worry

01:13:37.640 about whether it's honest

01:13:39.000 and whether it's authentic.

01:13:40.680 And the problem

01:13:41.760 with what's happened

01:13:42.900 to our party

01:13:43.540 when we're mired

01:13:44.840 in this truth-denying

01:13:46.420 about the 2020 election

01:13:48.260 is that we lose credibility

01:13:50.640 on all the other issues

01:13:51.720 that we want to talk about,

01:13:53.180 some of which

01:13:53.700 you've already spoken about today

01:13:55.160 in crime,

01:13:56.260 in education,

01:13:57.500 on fiscal policy,

01:13:59.220 taxes,

01:13:59.780 and spending,

01:14:00.640 and what it's going to do

01:14:01.340 to inflation

01:14:01.980 and to our lifestyle

01:14:03.080 and our ability

01:14:04.380 to pay our bills

01:14:05.200 in this country.

01:14:06.040 If we're going to be believed

01:14:07.120 on all that stuff,

01:14:08.080 we've got to abandon

01:14:08.900 this stuff, Megan.

01:14:10.300 And so,

01:14:11.220 I don't know

01:14:11.720 if I'm really tiptoeing,

01:14:12.860 I'm just trying

01:14:13.440 to tell the truth about it

01:14:14.660 because, as you know,

01:14:15.820 there are lots of things

01:14:16.520 the president did

01:14:17.260 that I agreed with

01:14:18.040 and I'm going to continue

01:14:19.000 to agree with those things.

01:14:20.380 But that doesn't get you

01:14:21.580 a blanket immunity

01:14:23.680 from not telling

01:14:25.720 the truth to people

01:14:26.620 and by continuing

01:14:28.120 to say the election

01:14:28.800 was stolen

01:14:29.300 when there's been

01:14:30.180 no evidence presented.

01:14:31.180 That would back up

01:14:33.100 that claim.

01:14:34.940 I took a look.

01:14:36.320 There was a Yahoo poll

01:14:37.360 in August

01:14:37.880 of Republican voters.

01:14:39.300 66% believe

01:14:40.620 the election

01:14:41.100 was rigged

01:14:41.640 or stolen.

01:14:43.080 66%.

01:14:44.640 So how does it work

01:14:47.360 for a Republican

01:14:48.180 to look at

01:14:49.020 two-thirds of the party

01:14:50.140 and say,

01:14:50.800 you're wrong?

01:14:52.900 What I think

01:14:53.800 that two-thirds

01:14:54.360 represents, Megan,

01:14:55.280 is there's only been

01:14:56.160 one voice talking

01:14:57.000 about this issue.

01:14:57.760 there's just been

01:14:59.340 Donald Trump's voice

01:15:00.100 saying that it was stolen

01:15:01.100 and nobody else

01:15:02.440 on our side

01:15:03.060 and certainly nobody

01:15:03.740 with the credibility

01:15:04.440 that I have

01:15:05.800 having been the first

01:15:07.380 elected official

01:15:08.000 to endorse the president,

01:15:09.640 the first one

01:15:10.740 to chair his transition

01:15:12.380 to play Hillary Clinton

01:15:14.120 and Joe Biden

01:15:14.780 in debate prep

01:15:15.520 to chair the opioid

01:15:16.620 commission for him.

01:15:17.540 It's not like

01:15:19.160 the line

01:15:19.720 is behind me

01:15:21.040 for people

01:15:21.740 who supported him

01:15:22.440 and helped

01:15:22.780 to make him president.

01:15:24.460 But on the other hand,

01:15:26.100 it doesn't mean

01:15:27.320 that you have to agree

01:15:28.200 with everything

01:15:28.580 that he says or does.

01:15:30.680 I think that

01:15:31.940 what you do

01:15:32.540 is you talk to people

01:15:33.480 honestly and directly

01:15:34.540 about the way

01:15:35.400 you feel about these issues.

01:15:36.600 And I'm certainly

01:15:37.420 not going to

01:15:38.260 pull any punches,

01:15:39.640 but those folks

01:15:40.580 I think are

01:15:41.440 just hearing

01:15:43.000 one voice right now.

01:15:44.340 You also,

01:15:44.880 I'm sure this week,

01:15:45.620 saw the Des Moines

01:15:46.160 Register poll.

01:15:47.540 of Republican voters

01:15:48.880 in Iowa,

01:15:49.480 and you know

01:15:49.860 from having been out there,

01:15:51.160 they're amongst

01:15:51.580 the most conservative

01:15:52.360 Republicans in the country.

01:15:54.760 And they asked the question,

01:15:56.540 you know,

01:15:56.680 who do you feel

01:15:57.180 more loyalty to,

01:15:58.580 the Republican Party

01:15:59.620 or Donald Trump?

01:16:00.940 In Iowa,

01:16:02.100 62% of those

01:16:03.820 who responded

01:16:04.400 said the Republican Party.

01:16:06.300 26% said Donald Trump.

01:16:08.420 So things are changing

01:16:10.380 and they're going to

01:16:11.000 take some time to change.

01:16:12.800 And Donald Trump

01:16:13.420 can either be a part

01:16:14.160 of that change

01:16:14.680 or he can be opposing

01:16:15.500 that change.

01:16:16.120 But either way,

01:16:16.960 the change is going

01:16:17.600 to happen.

01:16:18.440 But let me ask you

01:16:19.320 about the rigged

01:16:20.080 or stolen,

01:16:21.020 all right?

01:16:21.340 Because Dominion voting,

01:16:23.260 Kraken,

01:16:23.800 all that,

01:16:24.480 zero truth.

01:16:25.280 That's fallen apart

01:16:26.180 and people who said

01:16:27.040 it are facing

01:16:27.560 billion-dollar lawsuits

01:16:28.800 by Smartmatic

01:16:30.100 and so on.

01:16:31.760 But rigged,

01:16:33.500 rigged,

01:16:34.380 you could make

01:16:34.900 an argument on,

01:16:35.580 right?

01:16:35.800 The suppression

01:16:36.260 of the Hunter Biden

01:16:37.100 reporting,

01:16:38.060 the Russiagate conspiracy,

01:16:39.740 which was touted

01:16:40.420 nonstop

01:16:41.300 in the first two years

01:16:42.080 of Trump's presidency

01:16:43.140 trying to blow up

01:16:44.340 that Ukraine phone call

01:16:45.500 into a second impeachment

01:16:46.400 and so on,

01:16:46.900 and the media salivating

01:16:47.880 and every night

01:16:48.320 telling us he's a criminal.

01:16:49.660 Like,

01:16:49.980 I think my own belief

01:16:51.180 is that's part

01:16:52.120 of what people mean

01:16:53.020 by rigged,

01:16:54.400 that this media

01:16:55.500 has 100%

01:16:56.700 got its thumb

01:16:57.200 on the scale

01:16:57.760 for Democrats

01:16:58.880 over Republicans

01:16:59.760 and certainly

01:17:00.460 over Donald Trump

01:17:01.400 in a way

01:17:02.220 that really mattered.

01:17:03.560 Big tech

01:17:04.120 suppressing

01:17:05.260 certain articles

01:17:06.080 and allowing others

01:17:06.940 to live.

01:17:07.820 It mattered,

01:17:08.760 right?

01:17:09.320 So I think

01:17:10.520 Republicans want

01:17:11.200 to see somebody

01:17:11.580 who's going

01:17:11.780 to take up

01:17:12.300 that challenge

01:17:12.960 and try to push

01:17:14.020 back against

01:17:14.700 those people

01:17:15.220 who are tilting

01:17:15.760 the scales.

01:17:17.320 Well,

01:17:17.460 I talk about that

01:17:18.320 in the book,

01:17:18.780 as you know.

01:17:19.720 We have a whole chapter

01:17:20.460 on how Republicans

01:17:21.280 should be dealing

01:17:21.880 with the media

01:17:22.460 and we talk about

01:17:24.280 how we need

01:17:24.960 to do election reform

01:17:26.020 and make elections

01:17:26.840 better state by state.

01:17:28.840 But that is not

01:17:29.960 what we're talking about.

01:17:32.000 You know,

01:17:32.340 I saw just yesterday

01:17:33.980 Donald Trump

01:17:35.260 giving an interview

01:17:35.940 to Mike Lydell

01:17:37.000 of the,

01:17:37.660 you know,

01:17:37.880 the Mr. Pillow guy.

01:17:39.940 My pillow.

01:17:40.560 It's my pillow.

01:17:42.140 My pillow guy.

01:17:43.500 You know,

01:17:44.780 and saying,

01:17:45.660 we know the election

01:17:46.380 was stolen

01:17:46.900 and they were agreeing

01:17:47.620 with each other

01:17:48.080 that the election

01:17:48.500 was stolen.

01:17:49.620 It's just not true.

01:17:51.020 But when we spend

01:17:52.220 all this time

01:17:52.720 talking about it too,

01:17:54.060 it's hard to get by

01:17:54.920 something when you

01:17:55.600 just keep talking

01:17:56.320 about it.

01:17:57.660 My view on this

01:17:58.560 is you say to voters,

01:17:59.960 when I was running

01:18:00.560 for re-election

01:18:01.040 in 2013,

01:18:02.360 I was walking

01:18:02.900 on the boardwalk

01:18:03.460 in Asbury Park,

01:18:04.280 New Jersey,

01:18:04.740 a boardwalk

01:18:05.120 we had just rebuilt

01:18:06.040 in five months.

01:18:07.880 And,

01:18:08.320 you know,

01:18:09.200 a voter came up to me

01:18:09.900 and said,

01:18:10.140 you're running

01:18:10.360 for re-election,

01:18:10.980 why should I vote for you?

01:18:12.240 And so look at this

01:18:12.940 rebuilt boardwalk.

01:18:13.780 You never thought

01:18:14.100 this would be done

01:18:14.760 in five months,

01:18:15.800 did you?

01:18:16.400 And he said,

01:18:16.840 yeah,

01:18:16.960 that's what I got

01:18:17.440 for voting for you

01:18:17.980 last time.

01:18:19.120 What do I get

01:18:19.580 for voting for you

01:18:20.060 next time?

01:18:21.020 If we want to appeal

01:18:22.060 to voters,

01:18:22.760 we have to talk

01:18:23.560 to them about

01:18:24.000 what we're going

01:18:24.460 to do differently

01:18:25.040 than Joe Biden

01:18:25.760 and Kamala Harris.

01:18:26.920 And talking about

01:18:27.540 all this other stuff

01:18:28.700 is,

01:18:29.780 in my view,

01:18:30.500 a waste of time.

01:18:31.860 And lastly,

01:18:33.060 the media has always

01:18:33.900 been against

01:18:34.340 the Republican Party.

01:18:35.780 Big Tech

01:18:36.340 is a new element

01:18:37.240 to that.

01:18:38.200 What the mainstream media

01:18:39.280 has been against

01:18:39.760 the Republican Party

01:18:40.620 my entire lifetime.

01:18:42.000 And we've won

01:18:42.660 more presidential elections

01:18:43.780 than they have.

01:18:44.800 So,

01:18:45.260 you know,

01:18:45.700 let's not be crying

01:18:46.420 at our beer.

01:18:47.380 Let's go out,

01:18:48.120 take them on head on,

01:18:49.400 take them on based

01:18:50.080 on the facts,

01:18:51.200 fight them when you

01:18:52.220 need to fight them.

01:18:53.080 And you know,

01:18:53.680 I know how to do that.

01:18:55.000 And other Republicans

01:18:56.160 do too.

01:18:57.000 So let's go and do that.

01:18:57.980 Let's not complain about it.

01:18:59.340 All right,

01:18:59.520 I'm going to tell you

01:19:00.040 as your friend,

01:19:00.540 I think you need

01:19:01.040 to sharpen your pencil

01:19:01.920 because I saw

01:19:02.460 Nicole Wallace

01:19:03.120 of MSNBC

01:19:03.860 coming at you

01:19:05.300 saying,

01:19:05.780 why didn't you

01:19:06.100 attack Fox News

01:19:06.840 in your book?

01:19:07.440 Doesn't a conspiracy theory,

01:19:09.000 conspiracy theorists

01:19:10.560 like Tucker Carlson,

01:19:12.120 aren't they the bigger

01:19:13.040 danger than media bias?

01:19:14.520 And all I could think

01:19:15.120 was you work

01:19:16.200 at the network

01:19:16.920 that touted

01:19:17.660 the BS Russiagate lie

01:19:20.120 more than any other

01:19:21.720 for years

01:19:22.920 and you haven't

01:19:23.580 apologized for

01:19:24.340 any of it.

01:19:25.480 Not to mention

01:19:26.040 COVID lies

01:19:27.380 about people

01:19:28.400 not being able

01:19:29.060 to get services

01:19:29.780 because they took

01:19:30.540 ivermectin overdoses.

01:19:32.160 Lies, lies, lies

01:19:33.160 that they don't

01:19:33.860 they don't

01:19:34.460 apologize for

01:19:35.140 they don't

01:19:35.440 correct.

01:19:36.700 Now, you got

01:19:37.480 to get back

01:19:38.060 on your prosecutor

01:19:38.880 hat and get ready

01:19:39.940 to do battle

01:19:40.540 on that nonsense.

01:19:42.300 Well, look,

01:19:42.780 and I said to her

01:19:43.520 directly yesterday

01:19:44.420 two things.

01:19:45.780 One, that if you

01:19:47.100 want to talk

01:19:47.520 conspiracy theorists

01:19:48.420 and truth deniers,

01:19:49.500 that there are

01:19:49.820 plenty of them

01:19:50.280 on MSNBC

01:19:51.240 where I was sitting

01:19:53.140 with her that day.

01:19:53.840 And secondly,

01:19:54.880 I said to her

01:19:55.980 that what she

01:19:56.500 was talking about

01:19:57.180 in terms of

01:19:58.000 terrorism and terrorists

01:19:59.260 and analogizing that

01:20:00.680 to people at Fox News

01:20:02.080 was disgraceful

01:20:03.400 and totally

01:20:04.700 irresponsible.

01:20:05.580 She shouldn't

01:20:05.900 be doing that

01:20:06.460 stuff.

01:20:07.220 So, you know,

01:20:08.140 I think I took

01:20:08.760 her out pretty

01:20:09.220 well yesterday.

01:20:10.360 And if she still

01:20:10.900 wants to have

01:20:11.420 more, believe me,

01:20:12.840 I'll be more

01:20:13.300 than ready to do

01:20:14.040 it.

01:20:14.280 You've watched

01:20:14.680 me do it before

01:20:15.480 and I'll be happy

01:20:16.520 to continue to do it.

01:20:17.820 It is fun when

01:20:18.480 you do it.

01:20:19.180 It's fun to watch.

01:20:20.800 I mean, the way

01:20:21.300 if a lawyer really

01:20:22.140 wants to take you

01:20:22.680 down, there's sort

01:20:23.180 of a linear, fun,

01:20:24.600 I don't know,

01:20:26.120 just intellectually

01:20:27.260 stimulating way of

01:20:28.140 doing it.

01:20:28.560 We've seen you do it.

01:20:29.940 OK, let's talk

01:20:30.440 about the Democrats

01:20:31.000 because there was

01:20:32.080 a poll out the other

01:20:32.680 day, Washington

01:20:33.220 Post, ABC,

01:20:34.500 Republicans lead

01:20:35.120 Democrats by the

01:20:35.820 largest margin in

01:20:36.660 40 years.

01:20:38.520 In 40 years,

01:20:39.340 that's the widest

01:20:40.000 margin we've seen,

01:20:40.940 right, in four

01:20:41.380 decades.

01:20:42.400 Joe Biden's not

01:20:43.260 faring too well

01:20:43.960 either in terms of

01:20:44.800 his approval.

01:20:45.500 He's at record

01:20:46.000 lows.

01:20:47.200 And so now

01:20:47.660 there's talk

01:20:48.420 about understanding

01:20:49.960 that Kamala Harris

01:20:50.660 isn't exactly the

01:20:51.460 strongest candidate.

01:20:52.180 Her numbers are

01:20:52.660 even lower than

01:20:53.200 his, of drafting

01:20:54.580 in Pete Buttigieg

01:20:55.760 somehow to become

01:20:57.620 the nominee for

01:20:58.820 the Dems in

01:20:59.880 2024.

01:21:01.900 What do you

01:21:02.420 make of that?

01:21:03.800 I'm shaking in

01:21:04.780 my boots.

01:21:06.440 We're having to

01:21:07.300 face the great

01:21:07.980 Pete Buttigieg.

01:21:09.380 You know, listen,

01:21:10.400 Megan, the idea

01:21:12.100 that this guy is

01:21:13.220 the savior of the

01:21:13.900 Democratic Party,

01:21:15.160 I have spent a lot

01:21:16.860 of time over the

01:21:18.180 past six to eight

01:21:19.320 years in South

01:21:20.300 Bend, Indiana.

01:21:21.580 I had an older

01:21:22.220 daughter who went

01:21:22.860 to Notre Dame.

01:21:23.800 I have a younger

01:21:24.520 daughter who's there

01:21:25.260 right now.

01:21:25.840 If you want to

01:21:26.860 hold up South Bend,

01:21:27.760 Indiana as an

01:21:28.820 example of how

01:21:29.960 he's going to run

01:21:30.560 America, Pete Buttigieg

01:21:32.000 ain't going to do

01:21:32.460 all that great.

01:21:33.680 So if that's their

01:21:34.760 saving grace, you

01:21:36.820 know, give me a

01:21:37.720 break.

01:21:38.740 This is a guy who

01:21:40.160 we'll see how he

01:21:40.920 winds up running

01:21:41.400 Department of

01:21:41.940 Transportation now

01:21:42.960 with all of this

01:21:44.080 infrastructure money

01:21:45.080 that's been passed.

01:21:46.220 And we'll see if he

01:21:47.020 runs it as efficiently

01:21:47.860 as he ran South Bend.

01:21:49.860 Believe me, the

01:21:50.920 infrastructure in

01:21:51.520 America won't get

01:21:52.180 much better at all.

01:21:54.340 What do you make of

01:21:55.060 the GOP side right

01:21:56.340 now?

01:21:56.580 Because we don't

01:21:57.660 know who's going

01:21:58.400 to be the nominee

01:21:59.640 on the Republican

01:22:00.240 side.

01:22:00.660 The latest poll had

01:22:01.340 Trump getting 78%

01:22:02.580 of the vote.

01:22:03.540 He's got the biggest

01:22:04.140 name recognition.

01:22:05.000 It's not a total

01:22:05.680 surprise he'd be

01:22:06.740 dominating everyone.

01:22:09.420 You know, DeSantis

01:22:10.000 gets mentioned a lot.

01:22:12.880 Sometimes Mike Pence

01:22:14.020 way, way behind Trump.

01:22:15.540 He was at like 12%

01:22:16.520 in the latest poll.

01:22:17.980 So who do you think

01:22:18.800 realistically has the

01:22:20.160 greatest chance?

01:22:20.880 You were the star in

01:22:22.140 2012, but you were

01:22:23.040 not.

01:22:23.240 You didn't register

01:22:24.840 on this particular

01:22:25.640 poll.

01:22:26.740 So what's your

01:22:27.600 thought on who the

01:22:29.040 leader is and how to

01:22:29.880 get your numbers up if

01:22:30.680 you decide you want it

01:22:31.440 to be you?

01:22:32.740 Well, first of all, I

01:22:33.820 don't think there's any

01:22:34.640 leader right now other

01:22:36.780 than Donald Trump,

01:22:37.900 right?

01:22:38.220 You know, he was the

01:22:38.880 last president and he's

01:22:40.840 the person who's going

01:22:41.440 to register most time

01:22:42.960 the polls.

01:22:43.620 And at this point, no

01:22:45.100 one else even matters.

01:22:46.160 But you know what

01:22:46.520 matters even less?

01:22:47.760 Polls in 2021 about a

01:22:49.280 primary in 2024.

01:22:50.340 2024.

01:22:51.100 I mean, we just don't

01:22:52.000 know what the world's

01:22:52.720 going to look like then.

01:22:54.300 Remember, at this time

01:22:56.420 in 2016, you know, I

01:23:01.400 was leading the polls at

01:23:03.160 this time in 2016.

01:23:04.880 Soon after I moved down

01:23:06.320 in the polls, Jeb Bush

01:23:07.680 was leading the polls for

01:23:08.680 a long time.

01:23:09.780 So, you know, the idea

01:23:11.080 that anything that's going

01:23:12.080 on now matters is to me,

01:23:14.860 you know, just based on

01:23:15.880 my experience, just not

01:23:17.040 right.

01:23:17.360 And what I, you know,

01:23:18.960 if I decide to run, you

01:23:20.620 know, I'll decide to run

01:23:21.960 because I believe I see a

01:23:23.140 pathway to getting voters

01:23:24.740 attention and making sure

01:23:26.280 that they listen to a

01:23:27.320 voice that's going to

01:23:28.420 speak about conservatism

01:23:29.580 in a common sense way

01:23:30.720 and make them feel good

01:23:32.120 about the fact that

01:23:33.440 they'll have somebody who

01:23:34.100 will fight for them, but

01:23:35.240 at the same time won't

01:23:36.820 hurt their ears while

01:23:38.440 doing it.

01:23:39.320 And I think, you know,

01:23:40.840 we'll see what happens.

01:23:42.120 I have not made any

01:23:43.240 decision and don't know.

01:23:44.560 And I think anybody who

01:23:45.260 tries to call it now

01:23:46.280 will wind up just being

01:23:48.100 wrong or if they turn

01:23:49.580 out to be right, it'll

01:23:50.580 be completely by accident.

01:23:52.640 You know, Donald Trump

01:23:53.960 very well, better than

01:23:55.200 virtually anybody

01:23:56.000 listening to this

01:23:56.760 program, I'm sure.

01:23:57.900 Do you think he wants

01:23:59.100 to run again?

01:24:01.440 Oh, I think he wants to

01:24:02.620 run again, but I don't

01:24:04.680 know that he's made any

01:24:05.560 decision to run again.

01:24:07.220 And I don't think he'll

01:24:08.100 make any decision to run

01:24:09.180 again in the very near

01:24:10.080 future.

01:24:10.500 You know, he's for

01:24:13.200 all of his

01:24:15.000 confidence, he is

01:24:18.140 also a guy who

01:24:19.240 tends to be, when

01:24:20.480 it's his own reputation

01:24:21.620 on the line, very, very

01:24:22.980 careful.

01:24:24.140 So I think it's going to

01:24:25.440 take a little time before

01:24:26.780 he sees what the

01:24:27.760 landscape looks like and

01:24:29.100 whether it's something he

01:24:29.760 wants to do or not.

01:24:31.300 I mean, he obviously feels

01:24:32.140 wronged by the last

01:24:32.960 election that we've talked

01:24:33.940 about, but whether that's

01:24:35.680 going to lead him to run

01:24:36.360 the next time at 78

01:24:38.280 years old, I'm not really

01:24:39.740 sure.

01:24:40.940 Do you think his ideas,

01:24:42.640 you know, he wasn't

01:24:43.420 really a Republican, you

01:24:45.200 know, you and I both know

01:24:46.100 he wasn't really one.

01:24:47.300 He ran as one and he had

01:24:49.420 the R officially after his

01:24:50.880 name, but he had a lot of

01:24:52.160 policies that didn't look

01:24:53.140 or feel very Republican.

01:24:54.960 And there's a question now

01:24:55.860 about, and there were

01:24:57.940 some that were harder

01:24:58.700 right than the normal

01:24:59.460 Republican Party was like

01:25:00.980 on immigration.

01:25:02.020 So do you think that that

01:25:03.300 sort of MAGA base of

01:25:05.040 ideals has become part

01:25:08.500 of the Republican Party in

01:25:09.700 other words, even if it's

01:25:10.460 not Donald Trump at the

01:25:11.260 helm, do you think anybody

01:25:12.420 looking to get the

01:25:13.340 nomination and lead this

01:25:14.320 party is going to have to

01:25:16.140 adopt the core MAGA

01:25:17.540 principles?

01:25:19.260 Well, I don't think you're

01:25:20.240 going to have to adopt the

01:25:21.320 core MAGA principles, but

01:25:22.920 on a lot of them, you're

01:25:23.600 going to want to.

01:25:24.940 And I think that he did do

01:25:26.640 something politically for

01:25:28.540 the Republican Party in

01:25:29.640 terms of expanding the type

01:25:31.360 of voter who wanted to

01:25:32.680 support Republicans who

01:25:33.700 maybe not had

01:25:34.260 traditionally not done so.

01:25:35.760 Let's face it.

01:25:36.340 He took a lot of Bernie

01:25:37.100 Sanders voters with his

01:25:38.720 positions on trade in

01:25:41.680 particular that drew a lot

01:25:44.200 of Bernie Sanders voters

01:25:45.140 away from Hillary Clinton

01:25:46.180 in 2016 and one of the

01:25:48.100 reasons that he won the

01:25:48.880 race.

01:25:49.860 But I think that the only

01:25:51.080 things you should be

01:25:51.800 adopting are those things

01:25:52.680 which you genuinely believe

01:25:54.020 and can genuinely fight for

01:25:55.600 because what the voters can

01:25:56.960 smell from a mile away is a

01:25:58.360 phony.

01:25:59.280 And if they don't believe

01:25:59.920 you authentically believe

01:26:01.160 these things, you're not

01:26:02.720 going to get away with it.

01:26:03.520 Hmm, it's going to be a

01:26:06.220 fascinating time.

01:26:07.540 But you and I both know

01:26:08.600 that the race for 2024, it's

01:26:10.280 like it's beginning like

01:26:11.580 tomorrow.

01:26:12.260 I mean, that's just a

01:26:13.060 function of the media that

01:26:14.100 we can't help ourselves.

01:26:15.280 We, you know, you're like

01:26:15.960 little chess pieces that we

01:26:16.960 can't wait to move.

01:26:18.840 And I predict you'll

01:26:20.220 definitely be one of them.

01:26:21.500 Can't wait to see how it

01:26:22.640 goes.

01:26:23.060 Governor Christie, always a

01:26:23.900 pleasure.

01:26:24.300 Thank you so much.

01:26:25.360 Everybody buy his book.

01:26:26.380 It's called Republican

01:26:27.400 Rescue and a lot of good

01:26:29.140 ideas in there and actually a

01:26:30.100 lot of fun stories about his

01:26:31.440 time working with Trump and

01:26:32.660 some his interactions

01:26:33.460 with Trump that many made

01:26:35.100 me laugh out loud.

01:26:35.940 I think you'll enjoy it.

01:26:37.140 Listen, so we're going to

01:26:37.720 keep you we're going to stay

01:26:38.640 on the Kyle Rittenhouse

01:26:39.360 trial.

01:26:40.180 And of course, obviously,

01:26:41.820 we have a verdict.

01:26:42.460 We'll have it totally

01:26:43.100 covered for you all the

01:26:43.940 wall.

01:26:44.200 So don't forget to check

01:26:45.380 in tomorrow.

01:26:46.360 We're going to do some

01:26:47.080 covid.

01:26:47.540 And I'm actually really

01:26:48.240 looking forward to my

01:26:49.000 guest, Dr.

01:26:50.360 Scott Atlas.

01:26:51.660 Boy, talk about people

01:26:52.720 been just killed by the

01:26:54.020 media unfairly.

01:26:55.480 He's definitely on that

01:26:56.280 list.

01:26:56.500 So don't forget to check

01:26:57.820 that out.

01:26:58.200 And we'll have Kyle, you

01:26:59.700 know, coverage of the

01:27:00.640 Kyle case as well.

01:27:02.000 Go ahead and download the

01:27:02.760 show on Apple Pandora,

01:27:03.840 Spotify and Stitcher

01:27:04.660 YouTube dot com such

01:27:05.680 Megan Kelly to watch it.

01:27:07.140 We appreciate it.

01:27:08.100 Thanks for listening.

01:27:10.620 Thanks for listening to the

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The Megyn Kelly Show - November 17, 2021

Rittenhouse Jury Deliberates and Media's Disastrous Coverage, with Gov. Chris Christie, Robert Barnes, Andrew Branca, and Richard Baris ｜ Ep. 205

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