The Megyn Kelly Show - Rob Reiner Son's Alarming Court Appearance, “Burn Cage” Found in D4vd’s Home, and Hope for JonBenét Case

00:00:00.000 Welcome to MK True Crime. I'm Phil Holloway, your host today. I'm a criminal lawyer, I'm a

00:00:11.060 former police officer, and I've been in and around the justice system for the better part of 40 years

00:00:16.240 now. And I think I know a great true crime show when I see one. And today, being our last show

00:00:22.200 of 2025, we've got a great one in store. Here's what's on the MK True Crime docket today. We

00:00:29.460 start, of course, with Nick Reiner, the son of Hollywood legend Rob Reiner, who appeared in

00:00:35.080 court this week in a California courtroom wearing an anti-suicide smock and shackles. He's charged

00:00:41.080 with the brutal double murders of his parents, Rob and Michelle. What will his defense be? We will

00:00:46.780 bring you the latest. Also, also in California, we've got a burn cage reported to have been found

00:00:53.140 inside Singer David's rental home. We'll discuss how this could be relevant to the ongoing investigation

00:00:59.340 into the death of the teen found brutally murdered in David's Tesla. And this holiday season marks 29

00:01:06.900 years, if you can believe it, since JonBenet Ramsey was found strangled in her Colorado home. There may be

00:01:13.520 finally some answers on the identity of her killer in this coming new year. We'll bring you all the

00:01:19.760 updates. Today, I'm very pleased to be joined by my fellow MK True Crime contributors and my friends and

00:01:25.680 colleagues Ashley Merchant, criminal lawyer in Atlanta, Georgia, and Dave Ehrenberg, also known

00:01:31.080 as the Florida Lawman, former state attorney for Palm Beach County, Florida, and managing partner

00:01:36.480 at Dave Ehrenberg Law. Welcome, guys. And of course, we're going to have to start with Nick Reiner. I know

00:01:42.960 everybody's been talking about this. We've been following it. We've been talking about it offline a

00:01:47.480 little bit. Let me just give you the readout and then we're going to discuss it. As I mentioned in the

00:01:52.140 intro, Nick Reiner has officially been charged with two counts of murder with special circumstances

00:01:57.740 because it's a double homicide and also because he's alleged to have used a dangerous weapon,

00:02:03.360 specifically a knife. And under California law, that would, of course, qualify him, should they seek

00:02:08.520 it, for the death penalty. His first appearance in the courtroom on Wednesday was what we call an

00:02:14.520 arraignment, but they didn't finish. They continued it until later on because his lawyer says it's a

00:02:21.140 complicated issue and he needs just a little bit more time. We actually have some of that on video.

00:02:26.180 Here is SOT 1 of defense lawyer Alan Jackson on Wednesday, and then we're going to discuss it

00:02:31.760 after the SOT. This is a devastating tragedy that has befallen the Reiner family. We all recognize that.

00:02:40.680 Our hearts go out to the entire Reiner family. There are very, very complex and serious issues

00:02:48.800 that are associated with this case. These need to be thoroughly but very carefully dealt with

00:02:57.560 and examined and looked at and analyzed. We ask that during this process, you allow the system to move

00:03:06.380 forward in the way that it was designed to move forward, not with a rush to judgment, not with jumping

00:03:11.440 to conclusions, but with restraint and with dignity and with the respect that this system and this process

00:03:19.200 deserves and that the family deserves.

00:03:23.320 All right, Ashley, we'll start with you. Ladies first. So this is an arraignment. Now, you and I

00:03:29.900 being in Georgia, Dave, of course, is in Florida, and this is all taking place in California, and every

00:03:34.720 state has different rules, different practices, different ways of doing things. But look, an arraignment,

00:03:40.040 right? It's like a first appearance. It's towards the beginning. And there's not a lot

00:03:45.680 substantively that happens. It's usually a formal entry of a not guilty plea. Ashley, can you see

00:03:51.760 any advantage to sort of delaying the arraignment in this case? And why didn't he just go ahead and

00:03:57.220 say we're going to plead not guilty? You know, I don't really see an advantage to doing it. But my

00:04:02.000 guess, reading between the lines and knowing a little bit about the case, is that he's having some

00:04:06.080 problems with the health of his client. I mean, you saw him, you know, we've seen a photo where

00:04:10.780 he's actually appearing in what's a suicide garb, you know, from they call it like a suicide dress

00:04:15.500 from the jail. So indicating he was on suicide watch, you know, his clients on suicide watch.

00:04:21.460 Just some of the things that he said about it being such a difficult case, and there being so

00:04:25.380 many complex issues that signaled to me as a defense lawyer, that there's some mental health issues.

00:04:29.900 And it is very difficult when you've got a client who is potentially not capable of assisting in

00:04:35.060 their own defense. You know, this was a very violent crime. I mean, it was a crime that happened

00:04:39.980 by the man's hands, you know, actually putting a knife into his family, you've got to assume that

00:04:46.100 there's some serious issues there. And so I think the lawyer was smart about just wanting to get a

00:04:50.980 grip on what all of those issues were before he actually does anything. Because when, you know,

00:04:55.780 when you have a client that's not mentally ill, you can actually ask them, hey, can you tell me

00:05:00.040 what you want to do in this situation? The problem when you have a client who's suffering from such an

00:05:04.680 extreme mental illness that they may not be able to assist you is that you as the lawyer have a

00:05:08.680 greater burden because you're not just giving advice and letting them choose. You're also in a

00:05:12.760 position where oftentimes you actually have to choose for them. And so it's just a greater amount

00:05:16.980 of stress. And I think that's probably why Alan was wanting a little bit more time to try and figure out

00:05:21.700 what was going on here. You know, I think that sounds right. Dave, in Florida, you know, is there

00:05:29.040 a lot that happens at an arraignment? Would it be standard or typical in your jurisdiction to waive

00:05:35.600 an arraignment or to delay an arraignment as we saw here? Well, this is such an unusual case. And so it

00:05:43.460 is not that unusual to ask for more time because you're dealing with a competency issue. The issue here

00:05:48.620 is not guilty or not guilty. It's whether he can assist, meaning the defendant, in his own defense,

00:05:55.680 whether he understands the proceedings before him. And I think that's where Alan Jackson is going.

00:06:01.480 And that's going to be key. This is different than an insanity defense. That's down the road.

00:06:06.080 That's whether you're guilty or not guilty. This is just a threshold question of whether or not you

00:06:11.960 can appreciate the proceedings before you. And if you can't, then you get sent to a mental hospital.

00:06:17.320 So what we're seeing here is out of the ordinary, but it is expected in a case like this that's

00:06:24.900 very high profile, where you have serious mental health issues that could play a big part in the

00:06:29.700 case. You know, Ashley, apparently this all happened within a day or so of the, I guess, the three of

00:06:39.260 them, the family, if you will, the son and the parents at a Christmas party. And as it's been reported,

00:06:45.700 there was some very bizarre behavior exhibited by defendant Reiner in the day, you know, prior to

00:06:55.280 the alleged murder. And so it begs the question, you know, could this be, does it look like maybe there

00:07:01.520 was some issue of a chemical induced, maybe psychotic break? If you're the defense lawyer, Ashley, are you

00:07:09.820 looking at that kind of thing to decide, okay, am I going to set up a not guilty by reason of insanity

00:07:15.800 defense, or perhaps, you know, my client is permanently or temporarily unable to stand trial? Is that what's

00:07:22.920 going on here?

00:07:23.880 Oh, yeah, 100%. And I think it's important to sort of walk everyone through that, you know, what that really

00:07:28.320 looks like. As a defense lawyer, when you're talking to your client, particularly right after something

00:07:32.460 happened, that's when you want to get all the information. You want to get accurate information,

00:07:36.120 and you want to get it when it's fresh in your client's mind. And so he's probably trying to gather

00:07:40.580 all of that information. Where it's really compounded is when the client has been using drugs,

00:07:45.620 maybe they're suffering from withdrawals, maybe he was in a psychotic episode, maybe he was manic,

00:07:50.280 maybe he was psychotic, who knows what was happening. If he was manic, maybe he's now in a depressive

00:07:55.200 low. You know, we know that he was on suicide watch. So we think there's a lot of different

00:07:58.760 things that's going on right now with this case and with this client. And I think Mr. Jackson is

00:08:03.980 probably trying to get as much information as he can, so he can get the right experts to do

00:08:08.720 evaluations. He can make sure that his client's safe, because, you know, that's a big burden for

00:08:13.180 us as defense lawyers. You've got a client who is suffering from mental illness, they're in custody.

00:08:18.160 Clients commit suicide all the time in custody. I mean, I would bet that you both have had clients

00:08:23.440 commit suicide. I've had three clients commit suicide. That's a lot. I mean, it's a lot. And

00:08:28.500 I will never forget any of that. And, you know, so it's not lost on me. But I think what he's

00:08:33.040 probably doing is trying to develop evidence to figure out where he wants to go with the case.

00:08:39.500 Is it competency? And I know Dave mentioned, you know, competency. What is that? What does that look

00:08:43.560 like? You have to actually be competent to assist your attorney. And what does that mean? That means

00:08:48.680 you've got to be able to answer questions. You've got to be able to make decisions. You know, I give

00:08:53.160 guidance to clients, but I can't make every decision for them. They have to decide, for example, if they

00:08:57.800 want to enter a guilty plea or they want to plea not guilty. That is really what arraignment is for.

00:09:02.200 It's to enter a guilty or not guilty plea and to make sure that you've got a lawyer. So, you know,

00:09:06.480 you never know if this kid was saying, Alan, I want to plea guilty. I want to plea guilty. I did it.

00:09:12.280 And he's saying, give me some more time because he doesn't know if his client's even competent to

00:09:16.360 plea guilty. That could be what we're facing here, you know?

00:09:19.960 You know, Dave, if you're the prosecutor, I know this is hard for you to do, but put on your

00:09:23.960 prosecutor hat just for a minute, okay? You're back in representing the state here,

00:09:30.400 and you've got this set of facts that's presented to you. And the allegations, or at least as reported

00:09:36.560 by page six, right, six, Nick was at Conan O'Brien's Christmas party, right, back on the 17th of

00:09:43.960 December. And apparently he got into an argument with his parents. He, according to someone who

00:09:51.520 was president, someone named Bill Hader, he was harassing people. He went up to Hader reportedly

00:09:58.520 and said, you know, what's your name? What's your last name? Are you famous? He reportedly pestered

00:10:05.220 other party goers with the same questions, and eventually he was asked to leave. And this,

00:10:09.560 of course, is after he showed up in the wrong attire. He was apparently just wearing like a

00:10:14.220 hoodie, but this was like a nice, more dressy kind of holiday occasion. And so there was apparently

00:10:20.880 lots of bizarre behavior in the, you know, hours or maybe day or so that preceded this. So if you're

00:10:27.640 the prosecutor, Dave, what are you going to do with those facts to develop the rebuttal to the defense

00:10:36.720 argument that maybe the client is, doesn't know right from wrong, or maybe it's not going to be

00:10:41.800 competent to stand trial? All right, let's, let's take the easier one. It is very difficult to sustain

00:10:47.040 an insanity defense. And I know when John Hinckley Jr. got it, got away with trying to kill President

00:10:53.600 Reagan, people thought, wow, this was too easy. You have these individuals getting off left and right

00:10:59.140 under insanity defenses. But in reality, it's very rare. And here, he's not going to be able to take

00:11:04.960 advantage of that because he knew the difference between right and wrong. And you know how we know

00:11:09.360 because he fled and was evasive after the murders. Why was he checking into a separate hotel? He didn't

00:11:19.900 call police. He didn't like, he didn't sit there at the scene. He snuck out and checked into a separate

00:11:26.100 location for an overnight stay, essentially to be evasive, to try to hide that he was involved in this

00:11:32.280 because he knew what he did was a crime. He knew what he did was wrong. So it's at your actions

00:11:37.040 after the fact that can easily disprove that you didn't know the difference between right and wrong.

00:11:41.780 Now, as far as competency, that's harder. That's something as a prosecutor, you get your own experts

00:11:47.580 and they interview the person and you hope that your experts will say, yeah, he is able to assist in

00:11:55.780 his defense. He understands the nature of the charge against him. And if he doesn't, you want your

00:12:01.520 expert to say he is malingering. You guys know what that is, right? Malingering, which is the legal term

00:12:07.300 for he's faking it. So that's what you're going to try to use to prevent him from being sent to the

00:12:13.040 mental hospital until he becomes competent to stand trial. Because the fear is, is that if he's ruled

00:12:20.360 incompetent to stand trial, he goes to the mental hospital and then it could take forever until he's

00:12:25.380 brought back to mental health. And then if he can't be brought back to health, he's released.

00:12:30.980 So that is perhaps a strategy here for Alan Jackson is just to say, he's not competent to stand trial.

00:12:36.900 It won't even go to a trial. We don't have to worry about an insane defense. And that's perhaps why

00:12:41.540 he's showing up wearing a smock because I think the defense counsel wants him to look like that in

00:12:46.800 front of the court and the world. Hey, it's me, Megan Kelly. Before we dive into our true crime

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00:14:02.360 So look, if this was, as many have speculated, this was some kind of a drug-induced psychosis or

00:14:13.600 something like that, normally that would resolve itself once someone spends some time in jail and

00:14:20.100 whatever they may have taken sort of works its way out of their system. So it would seem to me that if

00:14:25.920 someone is that messed up on drugs, it might very well be that at that moment, they may not be capable

00:14:32.740 in doing much to assist their lawyers. But that being said, that could be temporary. And there's

00:14:37.740 not much that a lawyer really needs assistance with at this phase, other than at some point being able

00:14:44.800 to talk about the facts and circumstances. But whether or not you're going to waive an arraignment

00:14:48.800 is typically, you know, that's something that maybe a lawyer can do without a whole lot of client input.

00:14:54.620 But I will say, according to our friends, Mark Geragos and Matt Murphy in California, we know

00:15:01.120 that it is much more sort of unusual for lawyers to waive an arraignment. There's a lot of discovery

00:15:07.660 that by that, I mean, the defense is able to get, in this case, they even had access to the crime scene,

00:15:13.120 as I understand it already, but they're able to get a lot more of the information contained in the

00:15:17.840 prosecutor's case file. It's not that way in every state, but in California, I think there can be

00:15:24.440 some distinct advantages by delaying a little bit so you can see a little bit more about what kind of cards

00:15:30.580 the prosecutor is holding. Speaking of defense lawyers, I want to move on to another issue.

00:15:37.200 Okay, so we've got questions here about, all right, is this person, if he's convicted, able to inherit,

00:15:44.880 inherit, right, from the estate of his now deceased parents. And of course, California has the Slayer

00:15:51.500 statute that basically says, no, even if you otherwise would be eligible to inherit, if you

00:15:56.940 murder them, you're not able to do so. But there's a, I guess, a similar issue that has now presented

00:16:02.980 itself. Who is paying for the expensive criminal defense lawyer? Reportedly, the fee to the lawyer is

00:16:11.220 coming from the estate of the deceased parents paid for by family members who say that they want

00:16:18.840 their loved one to not go to prison for the rest of his life, but maybe spend his life in a mental 0.51

00:16:25.680 institution. So Ashley, what I can say is that, you know, and I know, and Dave knows, it's not unheard

00:16:31.760 of, not even uncommon, nor is it improper for victims to pay for the defense of the perpetrator,

00:16:41.320 the alleged perpetrator. Happens all the time. But what doesn't happen all the time is we don't see

00:16:47.040 deceased victims paying for it. Have you ever seen anything like this? I've never seen anything just

00:16:53.080 like this, but it actually does not surprise me. And I can't imagine what the brother and sister of

00:16:58.500 this gentleman, you know, the other two, the two children that obviously the ones that are the

00:17:03.460 victims here. I mean, you know, the parents were the victims, but they're without their parents. And

00:17:07.040 I've seen where they were very close with their parents. I mean, now their brother's accused. So,

00:17:10.960 you know, I can't imagine the burden and they're probably the trustees, but I can't imagine the

00:17:14.560 burden on them to make this decision. The one thing I can say about it though, is I understand why

00:17:20.180 they would want him to have a good defense lawyer, because I think that the only way that everybody can

00:17:25.220 sleep at night and feel like any amount of justice is done is when you have a good defense, when you

00:17:30.100 have a good and ethical prosecutor and you have a good ethical, aggressive defense lawyer. And for

00:17:35.720 me, if it was, if it was my family and my loved one, I would agree. I would want them to have the

00:17:40.240 best defense possible because that's the only way I could sleep at night and know that the truth came

00:17:45.600 out. And I think that's what they want. You know, there's, there's got to be more here. And so I would

00:17:51.300 want the comfort of knowing that my loved one, because they have to love their brother. They

00:17:55.020 have to, they have to be extremely angry of him, at him, but I'm sure that they still have feelings

00:17:59.980 for him, you know, especially if he was in some type of a rage or something like that. So I think

00:18:04.200 it's, it's completely reasonable. They also have the means. So, you know, the fact that they have the

00:18:08.500 means and the fact that they want him to go to good defense, I think that's perfectly reasonable for

00:18:12.240 them. So I'm operating under the assumption, it may not be the case, but I think it's probably a fair

00:18:17.520 assumption that this estate is in a trust of some kind, as opposed to a traditional will. So if it

00:18:24.600 is a trust is actually alluded to, there would be at least one trustee, presumably some family member,

00:18:31.400 maybe another surviving child. We don't know who that is, but the estate is worth reportedly around

00:18:37.840 $200 million or so, right? This is a result of a long career in Hollywood. It's a lot of money,

00:18:44.540 $200 million, Dave, but look, if, what if there's a dispute? What if there are other beneficiaries

00:18:50.280 of this trust, other individuals who might be set to inherit some of that? And what if they say,

00:18:56.760 look, I'm a beneficiary of this estate and I don't want this $200 million corpus of this trust being

00:19:04.700 used to defend, you know, the killer of the principles of this trust, right? What do you do

00:19:11.300 when this dispute, and I think it's probably inevitable, I think it's going to happen. I think

00:19:16.020 there's going to be a dispute about using their money for the defense of the alleged killer. Dave,

00:19:22.720 what do you say? Well, Professor Holloway, this turned into a trust in estates class, huh? I thought

00:19:28.660 we were here for criminal law, but let's talk about trust in estates. It depends on who the beneficiaries

00:19:32.880 are. Is it the kids? And if it is, if there's a dispute amongst the remaining children, yes, that could

00:19:39.580 be a court decision. But apparently, according to what we've seen, is that it's the decision of

00:19:44.860 the estate to provide this guy, Nick, with an attorney, and not just any attorney, an aggressive

00:19:51.320 criminal defense lawyer. That's the surprise here. You generally hire Alan Jackson not to cop a plea

00:19:57.180 and go away. You do something to do a high profile fight, perhaps to create a Menendez situation, which

00:20:03.460 would be appalling. I mean, it would be appalling to the legacy of the Reiners. And you got to believe

00:20:08.420 that those who are funding this criminal defense lawyer would not want their parents to be dragged

00:20:13.560 through the mud like the Menendez brothers' parents were. So I would believe that that's where they 0.99

00:20:19.700 have some influence. Maybe that's why they want to hire the lawyer, to make sure that he gets the best

00:20:24.580 representation where he can perhaps go to a mental institution instead of a prison, and perhaps to

00:20:30.420 avoid having to come up with this narrative that he's the victim here. And the parents, who people

00:20:36.080 all seem to really love, Rob Reiner and his wife, by all accounts, are good people, who even people

00:20:42.620 on the other side politically of them admire and love, to prevent them from being dragged through

00:20:47.120 the mud. So maybe there is an incentive here for the remaining children, if they control the estate, 0.81

00:20:52.820 to pay for Nick's lawyer's fees, because then they have a little bit of control.

00:20:56.660 Well, this case is obviously going to be around for a while. So whoever they, you know, is going to

00:21:03.360 represent him, presumably Mr. Jackson for the duration, has a lot of work ahead of him and his

00:21:10.400 team, right? Actually, because this could be a death penalty case. We have the allegations of

00:21:16.660 special circumstances, which under most states that have the death penalty, not all murders will qualify.

00:21:22.900 It's got to be certain murders that are arguably worse in some way in this way, because allegedly

00:21:28.500 there was a double homicide, and because there was a deadly weapon used, such as the knife in this

00:21:35.860 case. But actually, what is different about defending this case, if the potential for death is on the

00:21:43.500 table, remembering, however, that California is kind of weird, right? It's kind of like in a hiatus,

00:21:49.780 they're not currently carrying out the death penalty, but theoretically, the jury, as I understand

00:21:55.360 it, could impose it if the prosecutor seeks it. Right, they could, and they're on a moratorium right

00:21:59.980 now, Phil. So the governor has actually said, we're not executing anyone. So that means he's not signing

00:22:04.260 any warrants, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't end up on death row. So the second that I read

00:22:08.880 special circumstances, I immediately thought, oh, death penalty, because that's one of the terms of art that

00:22:14.040 we use for death penalty cases. Back in the 70s, the Supreme Court, the United States Supreme Court,

00:22:19.060 said that we could not have death penalty cases anymore. But then within about a year, they said,

00:22:23.500 well, actually, we can, but you have to make sure that it's proportional to the crime. There's got to be

00:22:28.680 some special circumstances. And so when you see those special circumstances, immediately, you start to

00:22:33.680 think, oh, death penalty eligible. Is this a death eligible crime? Typically, special circumstances are

00:22:39.560 if there's more than one person killed, or this is the one that I kind of get bothered by. It's sort of a

00:22:44.880 catch-all if the death is in the commission of another felony. Every death is in the commission

00:22:49.120 of another felony. You could be committing an assault, and the person dies. So essentially,

00:22:53.300 that special circumstance, in my opinion, is kind of null and void. But immediately, I started thinking

00:22:58.180 about that. And I'm sure that that is something that Alan Jackson is thinking about, because not

00:23:02.360 only do we have what we've talked about with competency and with insanity, but now we've got death

00:23:06.860 penalty. So death penalty, you're automatically thinking mitigation. Because how a death penalty case

00:23:12.320 works is you first go through the innocence and guilt phase. So the jury, like we typically see,

00:23:17.040 guilty or not guilty. But then you have a second phase of the jury trial. And the jury actually

00:23:21.700 hears what's called aggravating circumstances, those special circumstances. But they also hear

00:23:26.740 mitigation. They hear mitigating evidence. And so any mental health defense, any use of drugs at the

00:23:32.520 time, any abuse, anything like that is going to be factored in as mitigation. So he's probably already

00:23:38.020 thinking about that, I need to start developing that mitigation now to try to help my client avoid

00:23:42.920 the death penalty, if the state does decide to pursue it. Dave, you brought up to Ashley's point, you

00:23:47.940 brought up something a minute ago, you were talking about whether or not we could be seeing the defense

00:23:53.500 set up here for what we call the Menendez defense, right? You're, you're saying that there was some kind

00:24:00.340 of abuse that just drove your client to act on this irresistible impulse or something along those lines

00:24:07.200 that led to this big blow up and of course, the murder. So we don't know yet if that's going to be

00:24:14.340 the case, we speculate that it could be headed that way. But in terms of mitigation, if you're the

00:24:21.040 prosecutor, and this is the way that the defense goes, and they're saying, look, our client may have

00:24:28.360 killed his father and mother, but it was because he was the victim of, of some kind of abuse over the

00:24:33.960 course of his lifetime. As the prosecutor, what do you do to counteract that kind of mitigation? Because

00:24:39.540 look, we don't have the benefit of hearing from the deceased victims to counter any such allegation.

00:24:47.660 You've got to look into any allegation and just disprove it. It's just a factual inquiry. You need to

00:24:53.040 talk to your investigators at the district attorney's office and just to show that this is, this is 1.00

00:24:58.960 garbage. I mean, that's what they did when it came to the Menendez brothers, when they tried to use the 0.98

00:25:03.980 abuse excuse. Plus, you want to follow the public statements. If he's never made, Nick's never made a

00:25:09.480 public statement about this in the past and all of a sudden now brings it up. You know, that's, that's

00:25:14.440 telling. Also, you want to see every time he speaks to someone like in the Menendez brothers case,

00:25:19.920 they spoke to psychiatrists after the murder. And only later, not right away later, did they bring

00:25:26.060 up the abuse excuse. So it, you know, that's the kind of thing showing inconsistencies that could

00:25:31.500 just punch holes through any such claim. And as a prosecutor, I can just tell you, you're a human

00:25:35.940 being. And if they try to victimize the victims yet again, I would make me extra angry to dig in my

00:25:42.600 heels and to demand serious punishment, life in prison, even the death penalty. Because it's one thing,

00:25:48.400 if you take responsibility, plead for mercy and say, I have dependency issues. It's another thing we say,

00:25:53.500 I did it because I was in fear of my life and make up some crazy story about someone who's so beloved

00:25:58.940 in our community. Ashley, let's just say that you get the call to go out to California and assist in

00:26:07.900 this defense. What direction would you take it? I would want to talk to him. I'd want to talk to my

00:26:14.560 client about what was going on in his mind at that time. I would try to really establish what he was

00:26:21.060 thinking. I would try to create a timeline about his mental health also. Was he self-medicating?

00:26:27.300 You know, is that, is that what happened? To try to negate intent, because this is really going to

00:26:31.740 come down to whether or not he had criminal intent and what his reasons were for trying to brutally kill

00:26:36.240 his parents. And I would really focus on that because this is not, this isn't a shooting. You know,

00:26:41.060 the goal was not just to kill someone. This was an act, a very violent act. And that to me signifies

00:26:47.000 that there's something going on. I would hire the best experts that I could to do full analysis of

00:26:52.180 everything going on mentally with him. You know, get all of the records, get all of his history and

00:26:57.600 make sure that I fully understood his mental capacity. Well, this, this particular DA's office

00:27:04.460 in Los Angeles is no stranger to this Menendez defense, if that's the way that it's going,

00:27:10.460 because they've, of course, recently just been through it with the actual Menendez. So

00:27:15.080 they, they certainly know what they're doing. And of course, this is one that we're going to be

00:27:19.140 watching very closely here at MK True Crime. So stick with us because we'll be in it probably for the

00:27:26.680 duration. Now, coming up next, after the break, we have a listener request for updates on the

00:27:33.260 JonBenet Ramsey case. Ashley and Dave, I know you guys remember her. Here's a little fun fact,

00:27:38.800 maybe not so fun. JonBenet Ramsey's grave is very close to where Ashley's office is and where my office

00:27:47.180 is in Cobb County, Georgia. And I don't know, Ashley, if you've ever been out there, but do you remember

00:27:52.520 back in the, I guess, aftermath of her murder, they actually put listening devices in the trees

00:27:59.620 that are near her, her grave out there, because they were thinking maybe someone would come and

00:28:05.420 make some incriminating statements. But here we are in 2025, and there's still been no killer

00:28:11.060 announced, but we may have some different news on that. We'll discuss that coming up after the break.

00:28:16.820 Also, we have update on singer David, D4VD, as I call him. There is a new allegation that he was

00:28:27.580 in possession, or at least in his home, there was an industrial incinerator located capable of reaching

00:28:34.580 temperatures of over 1,600 degrees Fahrenheit. So stick around. We'll get into that after the break.

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00:29:45.740 Welcome back to MK True Crime. I'm Phil Holloway. I'm here with my co-hosts Ashley Merchant and Dave

00:29:52.700 Ehrenberg, and we have been following here at MK True Crime the case of Senior David out in California.

00:29:59.740 We've been following this since September, and to be honest with you guys, the case gets more and more

00:30:05.640 disturbing. By way of a reminder, the badly decomposed remains of 14-year-old victim,

00:30:12.040 Celeste Rivas Hernandez, were found in the trunk of David's Tesla back in September. The Los Angeles

00:30:18.800 Police Department is investigating the case, as we understand it, as a homicide. They have confirmed

00:30:24.580 that David is being seriously considered as a suspect, but no one has yet been charged with anything,

00:30:30.480 not with destroying the remains, not with hiding evidence, or certainly not even a murder. Allegedly,

00:30:36.660 there is an investigative grand jury that's hearing evidence, which in and of itself is very peculiar.

00:30:43.200 But now in the case, we're told there are multiple witnesses that are close to David that are

00:30:47.920 cooperating. They're testifying to this grand jury. And now, guys, we have a private investigator

00:30:53.040 claiming that he found this industrial burn cage inside David's rental home. As I said, the

00:31:00.160 reports are that this item available, I guess you can buy it online, but it's capable of reaching

00:31:07.380 temperatures of close to 1,600 degrees Fahrenheit, more than enough to incinerate human remains. Of course,

00:31:17.140 the remains were located, but still, this is a very, very bizarre and peculiar turn of events.

00:31:23.940 Dave Ehrenberg, you're the prosecutor. Do you do something with this evidence?

00:31:28.700 Yes. In fact, it was not subject to the search warrant, so it's not being used, apparently,

00:31:33.780 in front of this grand jury. And the only answer to that as to why not is because apparently it was

00:31:39.180 discovered by a private investigator, and perhaps the authorities did not learn of this. What is this

00:31:44.480 thing called a burn pit or something? What is this? Yeah, it's a burn cage. It says professional

00:31:51.680 power done right DR burn cage. I mean, my gosh, I don't know where you get one of those if it comes

00:31:57.480 on Amazon Prime, but that is ridiculous. There's only really one reason why someone who's suspected

00:32:03.920 of killing an underage girl who is found in his trunk would use that for. It's like a scene from

00:32:10.440 Ozark. So that, to me, is real evidence. That's circumstantial evidence, but it's real evidence,

00:32:16.600 and perhaps the only reason why it has not been used, allegedly, is because prosecutors and law

00:32:20.920 enforcement didn't know about it until now. Hey, look, you can't, don't, don't, look, don't,

00:32:25.580 don't badmouth anything about Ozark, because yours truly was in season three, episode one,

00:32:31.940 as an extra at the poker table. Check it out. Wait, wait, wait, wait. First of all, I love the show. It's

00:32:38.000 one of my favorite shows of all time. Yeah. It's why I never do business with the Mexican cartel.

00:32:42.280 And secondly, Oh, that's the only reason? There's a lot of reasons. Standards. Right, exactly. But Phil,

00:32:48.780 I'm sorry, but can you at least tell us what you were doing as an extra? I was a high roller at the

00:32:53.960 poker table, season three, episode one. Check it out. I didn't say a word because then they would have

00:32:58.640 had to pay me more and put me in the Screen Actors Guild. But anyway, a story for another

00:33:04.540 time. Ashley, this, this incinerator reportedly was still boxed and unused, and it was discovered

00:33:12.080 inside the, the residence on Doheny Street by someone named Steve Fisher, who was hired to comb

00:33:18.880 through the $20,000 a month pad by the owner of that rental property. What do you make of it?

00:33:26.380 So if I'm the defense lawyer helping David, I'm going to come up with a really good reason that

00:33:31.320 he's got a burn cage. There better be a really good reason because that is an odd thing to have.

00:33:35.980 I mean, you better be doing some neighborhood cremation of animals for a charity or something.

00:33:41.260 I mean, there better be some really good reason. This isn't like a burn pit where you're in your

00:33:44.680 backyard and you're just doing, you know, a fire pit, burning up some leaves. I mean, this is

00:33:48.300 literally a device to cremate remains. And that's what this device is. It's insane to me that it's even

00:33:55.180 sold like this. I mean, what do you need a burn cage for other than maybe trash? But I would want

00:33:59.840 to have some really solid reasons. Again, the police aren't using it, but it might come up later

00:34:05.520 on. And so you want to have some good reason why this man has a burn cage. And the thing about this

00:34:11.060 case is that his music, his actions, they're just strange and nobody can really piece it together.

00:34:17.420 I would imagine that's why the police are taking so long. They're trying to put these little tiny

00:34:21.640 odd things together and they don't have any smoking gun. You know, they don't have anything

00:34:26.540 like that, but they've got a lot of really bizarre things that he's been doing, really bizarre things

00:34:30.640 he's singing about, things that are bizarre in his house. And so I think they're just trying to put all

00:34:35.220 of these little pieces together before they make an arrest. Well, our intrepid producer, Natasha,

00:34:40.800 has researched this issue and she informs me that standard human cremation requires a temperature of

00:34:46.900 at least 1,400 degrees. And of course, this is apparently more powerful than that. Of note,

00:34:53.920 these incinerators are illegal to use in LA. David, by the way, being the most searched person

00:35:01.260 on Google of 2025, Dave Ehrenberg, I thought it was going to be you, but you didn't make it. It was

00:35:07.740 David. No, no, it was David. They just didn't put my last name in. Right. Okay. Also, I don't spell it

00:35:14.500 with like a four. I need to start doing that, putting numbers on my name. So, but yes, I have

00:35:20.340 to admit, I had not heard of David before all of this. And I think one of the reasons why he was

00:35:25.760 most searched is because you have a lot of people like us who are trying to figure out who this guy

00:35:30.120 is as opposed to like Taylor Swift, who everyone knows. Yeah. 100%. I think I contributed to that

00:35:35.380 Google search because my kids immediately know, oh yeah, of course I knew who that is. And they knew all

00:35:39.520 the stuff, but they learned it on TikTok. So if we're not on TikTok, we don't know who he is and we

00:35:44.060 don't know all this stuff. And so we're all contributing to this Google search.

00:35:47.800 Well, look, it's going to be interesting. This is another one that we've been following here.

00:35:54.140 We're going to continue to follow it here on the show, moving into the new year. This case is going

00:35:59.560 somewhere. I think there's going to be charges. I thought honestly, there would have been some

00:36:03.520 charges by now because somebody destroyed that body. It was literally dismembered and found in this

00:36:10.040 Tesla. Somebody did that. And that's a crime. I think cops at least have some idea who that person

00:36:16.040 was that did or persons maybe that did that. And of course, there's the other issue of this

00:36:21.180 illicit relationship allegedly between David and the underage victim. Now there's going to be an

00:36:29.240 electronic trail. We've talked about that on the show as well before. I think that all that stuff is

00:36:34.900 going to lead to some kind of criminal charges, maybe even a murder indictment. And if so, we'll

00:36:40.200 have it for you here straight away at MK True Crime. Now, I want to turn our attention to John

00:36:46.180 Benet Ramsey. Now, this is a case that goes back 29 years, all the way back to December 26,

00:36:55.640 whatever 29 years ago is. And this was, for those of you who don't know, this comes by the way,

00:37:02.900 this is a listener suggestion from listener Melissa. We really do read the emails that you

00:37:08.420 send us, mktruecrimeatdevilmaycaremedia.com. And Melissa has asked us to cover this show.

00:37:15.480 She says, love the show. You're all so brilliant. Love hearing the perspectives with the legal analysis

00:37:20.360 on a variety of cases. Very well done. I wonder what the status of the case for John Benet Ramsey is.

00:37:26.580 All right. So Ashley, can you give us sort of the Reader's Digest version on what this case is

00:37:33.140 about and what happened? Yeah, definitely. So, you know, this young girl, she was killed when she

00:37:37.480 was six years old. She was strangled. And so they found her, they knew what happened. And for a long

00:37:41.940 time, they thought that her parents had done it. And then they looked at different family members,

00:37:45.440 friends. I mean, they really had just about everybody as a suspect. And they narrowed all of

00:37:49.800 those people down and they were all cleared. Their names were cleared. I think there was always been a lot

00:37:54.060 of suspicion about that. But what I think is really interesting right now is they're using new DNA

00:37:59.000 technology to try to solve this case. And we're going to see this a lot more because DNA is just

00:38:03.620 evolving every day. I don't know if a lot of people have followed it, but after 9-11, they really

00:38:09.480 established this new type of DNA technology where they were able to get DNA. And it's not necessarily

00:38:15.300 what I would consider blood, semen, or saliva. So the standard old school DNA is always blood,

00:38:20.360 semen, or saliva, you know, a fluid. Now we've got DNA where it's touch DNA. Essentially,

00:38:25.200 you're touching something and your DNA is on it. We also have more procedures that are called

00:38:29.600 amplification, where you're able to actually extract. So let's say you've got four different

00:38:34.580 people's DNA on an object. You're able to actually extract one profile so that you can try to match

00:38:40.120 it to something else. So now take that a step further. And now we have all these people going

00:38:44.540 into these genealogy databases. And that's where they're trying to take this case. They're trying to

00:38:49.220 really use those genealogy databases, you know, where you take that swab, you get it for Christmas.

00:38:53.720 Some people may have it under their tree. 23andMe, I don't even know if they're still in business,

00:38:57.900 but Ancestry, all these places that have their DNA, you know, that is contributing to this. And so

00:39:03.080 they're really hoping that some of the advances in the DNA, particularly with genealogy, is going to

00:39:07.500 at least narrow down to a family member, maybe, so that they can narrow down some suspects and keep

00:39:11.920 the case alive. Dave, I want to get your thoughts on this annual update from Boulder Police Department.

00:39:19.860 So let's go ahead and hear SOT2, and then we'll ask Dave about it. This case remains a top priority

00:39:26.840 for our department. This past year, our detectives have conducted several new interviews, as well as

00:39:33.020 re-interviewed individuals based on tips that we've received. We've also collected new evidence and

00:39:38.600 tested and retested other pieces of evidence to generate new leads. Techniques and technology

00:39:44.920 constantly evolve. This is especially true with technology related to DNA testing.

00:39:51.500 Detectives continue to consult with outside experts from across the country, as well as our state and

00:39:56.760 federal partners, to strategize and explore all options when it comes to evidence testing.

00:40:01.780 All right, Dave. So there you have it. That's the update. They say that they have new interviews

00:40:08.920 and they have re-interviews. If you're the prosecutor out there, and I know it's not the same guy as it

00:40:14.520 was back when this happened, but if you're the prosecutor that inherits this still unsolved cold

00:40:19.600 case, is that how you would proceed? Or is there anything else you would do? Are they doing it the right

00:40:24.240 way? Ashley hit upon it. The new technology is genetic genealogy. It's what helped catch Brian

00:40:30.900 Koberger. Brian Koberger's relative was found through one of these 23andMe databases as a match.

00:40:38.260 And then that's how they traced it to Brian Koberger. We don't know who the relative is.

00:40:42.600 In fact, this whole area is shrouded in secrecy. And why? Because it relies on all of us who enter into

00:40:51.500 these databases voluntarily. And the thinking is, if people thought, hey, if I check the box that said,

00:40:57.960 sure, I'll be in a public database, then I'll get hassled by cops who are investigating a murder

00:41:04.380 out there. And maybe the real murder will blame it on me because it's my DNA that's found when it's

00:41:10.500 really his. So that's a thing that police are intentionally trying to be vague on this.

00:41:16.420 They're talking about new technologies. The fear is, is that enough people know about it that they'll

00:41:20.420 click no. They do not want to be entered into the database. But now you have all these databases out

00:41:26.300 there, all these companies who do it. And so it is now a real chance that we could find a match that

00:41:32.420 didn't exist before. Also, because of what Ashley said, you don't need all the stuff you needed before.

00:41:36.940 You just need the touch DNA and you need a relative. So in the year 2025, maybe there's hope

00:41:42.720 that we can finally catch the real killer here. And as Ashley said, it is not the parents. I know

00:41:48.400 they still are under suspicion. The mother passed away years ago, but they've been drawn through the

00:41:53.100 mud. It was not the parents. No, and I don't think it's the father either. In fact, we've got

00:41:57.920 SOT3. If we can go ahead and roll that. This is Father John Ramsey saying that he's advocating for

00:42:04.400 this DNA evidence to be investigated by Othram Labs. Othram is one of the few cutting-edge labs that can do

00:42:12.980 investigative genetic genealogy, IgG is the term for it. And we've been advocating that the

00:42:19.580 border police do that, use that technology in our case. I think if they do, we've got to

00:42:29.620 probably have 70, 80 percent chance of getting an answer. It's been very successful in solving

00:42:36.340 old cold cases. It's kind of the latest and greatest use of technology and DNA to solve crimes.

00:42:45.280 You know, Mr. Ramsey there, he's not wrong. Earlier this year, I had the opportunity to

00:42:52.320 interview here on this show. We did a special episode. I interviewed one of the owners of

00:42:57.240 Othram Labs, and I encourage folks to go back and take a look and a listen to that interview because

00:43:02.460 this is really great technology. I think it's very promising, and this very well could be what gets us

00:43:09.580 to some answer as to what happened in this case 29 years ago with the death of JonBenet Ramsey.

00:43:18.500 All right, stay tuned. Coming up, we have our closing arguments right after the break.

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00:44:22.680 Welcome back to MK True Crime. I'm Phil Holloway joined by my fellow contributors,

00:44:27.880 Ashley Merchant and Dave Ehrenberg. And if you can believe it, guys, it's time for our last

00:44:33.720 closing argument of 2025 here on the show. But first, did you know that you can now listen to

00:44:41.540 MK True Crime on the Megan Kelly channel, Sirius XM channel 111? This is part of our Megan's podcast

00:44:48.780 playlist. MK True Crime will air Tuesdays at 10 a.m. and Saturdays at 9 a.m. and 10 a.m. Eastern

00:44:56.020 standard time on Sirius XM channel 111. All right, Ashley, we'll continue with the theme of ladies

00:45:05.200 first. If you're ready, we'd love to hear what your closing is for today, the last one of the year. So

00:45:10.620 take it home. I know, last one of the year. So it's got to be epic. Normally, I don't really rant. I do

00:45:15.980 more of a, you know, lecture type style. But today, I'm going to rant a little bit. So earlier this week,

00:45:21.320 we got to see Fannie Willis. We got to see her testify finally in front of the Senate, a committee

00:45:26.280 that I testified in front of, I don't know, 18 months ago, immediately. And I'm going to just

00:45:30.880 kind of walk you through a little bit of the differences first and then mention a couple

00:45:33.720 things and sort of respond to them. So first, it took the Senate, what, 18 months for her to

00:45:39.200 actually sit her butt in that chair and answer questions. When they gave me a subpoena, I said, 0.99

00:45:43.660 when do you need me? It is a public service. You want to hear from me? I've got nothing to hide.

00:45:49.000 That's the first thing. When she testified, she definitely leveled her rage. I read that

00:45:53.780 quote somewhere and I said, that is appropriate. She leveled her rage. But I wonder, why act

00:45:58.700 like that? If you've got nothing to hide, if you're not upset about what you've done, if

00:46:03.520 you are beyond reproach, why act like that? Why show such anger? But the other thing that

00:46:08.700 I really wanted to talk about, it's just, you know, I was sitting in my chair as I watched

00:46:12.580 it and I was kind of like wanting to scream, you know, oh, wait, that's wrong. If you go back

00:46:17.080 and you watch your testimony and it's out there, you can find it. The Georgia General Assembly

00:46:20.580 live streamed it. You can go watch it. One of the things that was asked was if she had

00:46:26.420 had conversations before she took office, if she had done certain things before she took

00:46:31.060 office on the Trump election interference case, the Georgia election interference case. 1.00

00:46:36.240 Her response, kind of insane, that it's a dumb ass question. So a state senator is asking 0.99

00:46:43.460 her a question, calm, respectful, asking her a question in a public, in the state capital

00:46:48.880 under the Georgia Gold Dome, asking her a question about if she had taken action before she took

00:46:54.560 office or had conversations about this case. She says, that's a dumb ass question. And she 1.00

00:47:00.120 says, it's factually impossible. I'm literally screaming, where's my indictment? Because you

00:47:06.360 know what? My indictment, where my client was charged, says he was charged with racketeering

00:47:11.340 conspiracy. And guess what the date that that racketeering conspiracy started? November 4th,

00:47:16.420 2020. Guess when Ms. Willis took office? January 1st, 2021. So I don't really know if Senator

00:47:24.760 Dolezal is the dumb ass or who's the dumb ass. But if you had looked at the indictment, you would 1.00

00:47:29.560 clearly see that you yourself, Ms. Willis, had alleged that this crime started to occur before you took

00:47:35.380 office. So there's my rant. I hope everybody has a great holiday and a happy new year.

00:47:40.960 All right. So there it is. We end 2026 with Ashley Merchant posing the question, who is the dumb ass? 1.00

00:47:47.880 All right, Dave, your turn, buddy. What's on your mind today? What's your final closing argument 0.99

00:47:54.400 to close out the year?

00:47:56.020 Well, thank you, Phil. Thank you, Ashley. I really enjoyed being partnered up with you guys here on

00:48:00.920 True Crime. And when it comes to the last couple of weeks, it's been a gut punch because we've seen

00:48:08.000 such violence, such tragedy. We saw it at Brown University, where they still haven't caught the

00:48:13.820 killer. We saw it at Bondi Beach in Australia, where 15 innocent Jews were slaughtered by jihadists.

00:48:23.380 Next, we saw it with Rob Reiner and his wife, who were murdered by their own son.

00:48:29.300 But just when you thought there was no hope for humanity, we see heroes, people like Ahmed Al Ahmed.

00:48:38.180 He's a 44-year-old Syrian-Australian Muslim shop owner, father of two, who disarmed one of the terrorists

00:48:45.180 and got shot for it, became a hero, probably saving countless lives.

00:48:50.360 Just contrast him with the radical Islamists who were trying to murder Jews in the name of ISIS.

00:49:00.000 And we also saw, when it came to Rob Reiner's tragic murder, we saw that there were people

00:49:05.760 on the right who spoke up. And yes, I was very disappointed, even by President Trump's standards,

00:49:13.840 that he said the things he did about Rob Reiner. He should have let that go. But I was heartened by

00:49:20.080 James Woods, who I often disagree with politically. And he said this in an emotional talk on Fox News,

00:49:28.440 said that because you disagree with people doesn't mean you have to hate people. He called Reiner a

00:49:33.180 godsend and a great patriot, noting that they both loved the same country, but had a different path

00:49:41.720 to the same destination. Rob Schneider, formerly of Saturday Night Live, who has expressed a lot of

00:49:49.380 very conservative views and gotten in trouble for it. He said this,

00:49:54.280 I really admire Rob Reiner and ask that everybody will be able to put aside our political affiliations

00:50:00.140 and opinions and enjoy somebody for their true talents. We have to agree to disagree and also agree

00:50:05.460 that we can condemn a horrible, horrible tragedy. We've done it and asked for it in the past.

00:50:10.560 We can do it ourselves here today. Remember, it was Rob Reiner who condemned the murder of Charlie

00:50:16.860 Kirk. And so I'm looking at the best of humanity. People on both sides of the aisle can come together

00:50:22.300 and say, no, we must move out of this time of despair, of senseless violence. And in this,

00:50:29.740 our final episode of the year in the midst of Hanukkah and shortly before families around the world

00:50:34.700 will celebrate Christmas, this positivity is what I like to focus on. It's the hope that during

00:50:40.140 these times of trolling and swatting and contrived consternation that we light candles during

00:50:46.440 Hanukkah and are taught that darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can. So my wish for all of

00:50:54.160 us here at MK True Crime is that we all become the light in the lives of others. Never lose faith

00:51:01.280 that the power to heal this world is within us all.

00:51:07.580 All right. You know, look, so one of the things I really love about this show, like in the closing

00:51:12.220 arguments, we never know what anybody is going to say. It's completely up to the individual co-host

00:51:19.640 or contributor. And so this is a perfect example of three people, three contributors doing this show.

00:51:26.480 And we have three different directions that we go in because I'm going to talk to you a little bit

00:51:32.000 about the phenomenon known as stealth jurors. And the reason I want to talk about stealth jurors is

00:51:38.500 because here at MK True Crime, among some other exciting changes that we'll talk more about later

00:51:44.020 here on the channel and on the show, we're going to be covering more trials. And we're going to be

00:51:50.080 focusing in depth on some of these high profile trials. Stealth jurors are people who intentionally

00:51:57.040 conceal their biases, their prejudice, or their personal agendas during the jury selection process

00:52:04.280 because they're trying to get on a jury. That jury selection, of course, known as, as we actually say

00:52:10.540 in the South, we call it voir dire. Dave may call it voir dire, but it's the time when the lawyers and

00:52:16.280 sometimes judges get to question jurors, and sometimes they're dishonest. And they do this

00:52:20.900 just so they can get seated on a jury and influence the outcome of a trial. So they oftentimes, they will

00:52:28.140 lie. They will misrepresent what their views are, what their opinions are. They will misrepresent

00:52:33.680 whatever conflict of interest they may have. They try to appear neutral, and they try to fly under

00:52:40.420 the radar so that they can get put on this jury with some agenda. We've seen some examples of this,

00:52:47.000 of course, in history. We have some allegations, for example, from the Scott Peterson trial years ago

00:52:53.600 out in California. But, you know, what they do, they'll hide their opinions, they'll hide their

00:52:58.720 personal connections, they will hide motives. A lot of times they might want to, say, write a book or

00:53:06.040 seek their 15 minutes of fame doing news interviews following whatever the verdict may be in these

00:53:11.980 high-profile trials. So stealth jurors, they're a real problem. They're a serious problem. They

00:53:17.060 undermine the fundamental right to a fair and honest, impartial jury as guaranteed by law to every person

00:53:24.980 accused of a crime in the United States. They taint deliberations. They lead to biased and wrong

00:53:30.820 verdicts. They hung juries, they hang juries, and they misrepresent themselves to result in mistrials

00:53:39.400 and wrongful convictions or wrongful acquittals. Their presence in the jury box erodes public trust

00:53:45.580 in the justice system, and it leads to unjust outcomes, regardless of whatever the evidence is

00:53:50.460 that's presented in the case. So detecting them is challenging, but it's crucial. It requires lawyers

00:53:56.940 to ask probing questions, good questions designed to look for nonverbal clues, inconsistencies in their

00:54:04.380 responses, and they oftentimes have to resort to post-trial revelations to see if this has happened

00:54:11.040 because these people can be prosecuted for lying during the jury selection process. That's it. That's

00:54:17.120 my rant. That's my close for 2025. First, though, I want to say thank you to all of you who are our

00:54:24.060 audience. You make this show what it is, whether you watch on YouTube, whether you listen on Sirius,

00:54:29.340 or you listen on podcasts. Thank you. And thank you to my fellow contributors today, Ashley Merchant

00:54:34.680 and Dave Ehrenberg. This has been a great year, and we have some very exciting things coming up in store

00:54:40.740 for 2026. More on that, so stay tuned. But until then, I wish all of you a very Merry Christmas,

00:54:47.860 Happy Hanukkah, Happy Holidays, and of course, Happy New Year from us at MK True Crime.

The Megyn Kelly Show - December 26, 2025

Rob Reiner Son's Alarming Court Appearance, “Burn Cage” Found in D4vd’s Home, and Hope for JonBenét Case

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