The Megyn Kelly Show - Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. on COVID Orthodoxy, Fauci's Legacy, and War in Ukraine ｜ Ep. 419

00:00:00.520 Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.

00:00:11.700 Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Today on the program,

00:00:16.460 Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Back in March, I interviewed Robert for the first time.

00:00:21.720 It lasted over four hours and it was a great exchange. I hope you've listened to it.

00:00:26.060 We covered so much ground from COVID vaccines and censorship to JFK and even Marilyn Monroe.

00:00:32.560 We broke it up into two different shows. We had so much material. Episodes 283 and 282,

00:00:37.520 if you want to check them out. Since that first interview, a lot has changed when it comes to

00:00:42.020 the vaccines, schools, masking. And that is largely because of voices like his, which many have done

00:00:48.940 their level best to suppress from the beginning, smearing him as a disinformation merchant

00:00:55.400 and the truth is he's nothing of the kind. And while many Americans may want to just move on

00:01:01.180 from COVID like a bad nightmare, Bobby says not so fast. He believes there needs to be a real reckoning

00:01:07.320 for those who were and are still in charge, many of whom are still trying to push some of these same

00:01:12.680 policies on us. So Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is out with a new documentary called The Real Anthony Fauci.

00:01:20.000 It is based off of his New York Times bestseller of the same name, which they also tried to suppress,

00:01:26.240 but the people found it and loved it anyway. And he's also written a new book recently called

00:01:31.440 Letter to Liberals. We'll discuss both. But like last time, the interview was wide ranging.

00:01:37.420 We talked about the midterm elections. We talked about whether he regrets any of the very harsh

00:01:42.020 criticism in the past that he leveled against President Trump and that was leveled against him

00:01:47.600 by his own family. And incredibly, he reveals for the first time his reaction to finding out

00:01:54.640 his son had just gotten back from Ukraine, where without telling anybody, he joined the war against

00:02:02.400 Russia. It is a war Robert very much opposes, but you're going to hear him talk about how it made 1.00

00:02:07.040 him feel as a father and as a Kennedy. Without further ado, Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

00:02:17.840 I loved, loved, loved our last interview, and so did the audience. So I'm thrilled to have you back.

00:02:24.640 Thank you for doing it, Megan.

00:02:26.680 Yeah, my pleasure. All right. So let's talk about Letter to Liberals. Why this book and why now?

00:02:32.840 Well, you know, I'm one of the things that has, this book came out of an argument. I had already a

00:02:40.920 debate that I had with a former colleague of mine, John Morgan, who is a former law partner, who is

00:02:49.140 very, very much part of, he very much ascribed to the pandemic orthodoxy, to the government orthodoxies.

00:03:00.800 He loves Anthony Fauci, and he believes what he was told about masks, about lockdowns, about vaccine

00:03:09.180 safety, about the vaccine efficacy, and about social distancing and closure of schools. And we had a

00:03:17.960 discussion about it during the pandemic. It was based, it was really an email and text discussion where

00:03:23.680 we would send our, each other's studies, scientific studies, with some commentary on them.

00:03:32.180 And to me, it struck me that that's what we should be doing as a nation, as a people,

00:03:38.160 that we ought to be able to have a congenial debate about, about government policies.

00:03:43.920 And that has been absent. People who disagree with the orthodoxy, or who question it, are not treated

00:03:52.740 respectfully. They have been vilified, marginalized, and doxed, and deplatformed, and treated as kind of

00:04:04.180 dangerous heretics. And in other cases, like second-class citizenship, citizens. In some cases, 0.85

00:04:14.260 children who have not taken the vaccine for religious reasons or medical reasons have been

00:04:19.780 denied medical treatment in hospitals. Politicians and celebrities have argued that they should be

00:04:27.580 people who decline to be vaccinated should be jailed, or should be punished, or should be denied constitutional

00:04:35.260 rights, including our president, Joe Biden. And this has always struck me that this is contrary to the liberal

00:04:43.520 tradition. Liberals traditionally love disputation. They love contention. They embrace debate. They

00:04:51.660 understood that the free flow of information is the sunlight, the fertilizer of democracy, that

00:05:00.780 you know, the entire core of liberalism is this belief that came to us from Jefferson and Madison and

00:05:08.780 Hamilton and Adams, people who clashed with each other on so many other issues. But the one thing they

00:05:15.980 really felt strongly about was free speech, and they felt that a democratic society could not function

00:05:25.820 where there were impediments to the free flow of information, because the free flow of information

00:05:30.380 annealed in the furnace of debate would yield the most beneficial

00:05:38.380 public policies. That debate, that the conversation, the open conversation, and the exchange of information

00:05:48.940 would really feed the best government policies. So they said, all of them said, we put the

00:05:58.860 freedom of expression, the guarantee of freedom of expression in the First Amendment,

00:06:04.940 because all of the other rights that we're creating for people in the Ten Amendments

00:06:11.260 at that time are dependent on it. That if a government has license to silence its critics,

00:06:22.860 it has license to commit any kind of atrocity. And, you know, we saw that our Bill of Rights really

00:06:33.340 plowed under during this pandemic. We saw these unprecedented constraints, government-dictated

00:06:40.300 constraints on freedom of speech, where for the first time, Americans were not allowed to criticize

00:06:46.460 their government or government policies. And predictably, all of the other amendments to our

00:06:52.300 Constitution and the Bill of Rights collapsed. The First Amendment also guarantees freedom of religion,

00:06:58.860 but we closed every church in this country for a year without any kind of public hearing or scientific

00:07:05.820 education. It was just an individual who's been in government for 50 years and never won an election who

00:07:15.100 said, lock them all down. And he has since said in April of this year, Dr. Fauci acknowledged in a

00:07:22.460 television interview that lockdowns don't work, and that the only purpose of lockdowns is to force

00:07:29.100 people to get vaccinated. That's not what we were told at the time. And they went after freedom of

00:07:36.140 petition and freedom of assembly by creating, you know, these social distancing mandates that were

00:07:43.420 designed to keep people apart rather than create a feeling of community and keep people together. And then

00:07:49.820 they went after, of course, property rights. The Fifth Amendment guarantees property rights, and they

00:07:59.260 closed 3.3 million businesses in this country without just compensation, without due process, which is a

00:08:06.780 violation of the Constitution. They got rid of the Seventh Amendment guarantee for jury trials. The Seventh

00:08:13.740 Amendment says, no, it was very simple. No American shall be denied the right of a trial before a jury of

00:08:21.260 his peers in cases or controversies exceeding $25 in value. There's no pandemic exception. And the founders

00:08:30.060 knew all about pandemics. There was two pandemics, two epidemics during the Revolutionary War. There were

00:08:37.020 smallpox epidemics every summer during the, you know, first 30 years of our country. But one of those

00:08:43.180 epidemics, the smallpox epidemic shut down the armies of New England for several months and really

00:08:49.100 stopped us from taking Canada. Canada, without that smallpox epidemic, would have been part of the 0.71

00:08:55.420 United States almost certainly today. And then there was a malaria epidemic that crippled the Army of

00:09:01.180 Virginia. So they knew all about it, but they didn't put it in the Constitution. And then they went after the

00:09:07.180 Fourth Amendment guarantees against, or against our prohibitions against warrantless searches and

00:09:13.180 seizures, all this kind of very intrusive track and trace surveillance and, you know, having to

00:09:20.140 disclose your medical records when you go into a public building, etc. And on and on. So all of the

00:09:27.180 amendments, with the exception of the Second Amendment, were eviscerated. And these are the, you know,

00:09:33.500 this was the bedrock upon which liberal orthodoxy, the liberal party, JFK, FDR liberalism has stood.

00:09:44.860 And then finally, not finally, but, you know, significantly, all of the lockdowns and these

00:09:56.940 countermeasures were at war on the poor. The people who really suffered during the pandemic,

00:10:04.940 and really, you know, blacks lost 3.25%, or three and a half, three and a quarter

00:10:15.260 life years. So life expectancy for blacks dropped dramatically, and for whites, for blacks more than

00:10:21.180 anybody. The children were, you know, I had a terrible time. We now have, you know, the Brown 1.00

00:10:30.060 University study shows that children lost 22 IQ points during the pandemic. These are all things

00:10:38.060 that, you know, we have built the liberal doctrine on helping the poor, on helping minorities, and

00:10:45.820 protecting civil rights, and above all, free speech. And all of those things were abandoned during the

00:10:51.260 pandemic. So I wanted just to kind of write a very, very gentle book that reminded liberals and my

00:11:01.740 party, the Democratic Party, of the things that we're supposed to stand for.

00:11:06.700 Well, I know one of the reasons that you wrote it as well is this now infamous quote by Anthony Fauci,

00:11:15.740 which was just, it was exceptional, and it's narcissism, and it's hubris, and kind of explains

00:11:23.660 why we abandoned much of the Constitution, as you just outlined. Who could forget this? This is soundbite five.

00:11:30.060 The attacks on me, quite frankly, are attacks on science. So if you are trying to, you know,

00:11:37.980 get at me as a public health official and a scientist, you're really attacking not only Dr. Anthony Fauci,

00:11:45.340 you're attacking science. And anybody that looks at what's going on clearly sees that. You have to be

00:11:53.980 asleep not to see that. And I know you've written, Bobby, that that, that was basically a demand for

00:12:00.860 blind faith in authority, which is antithetical to who we are. Yeah, I mean, blind faith

00:12:09.980 and authority is a feature of religion. It's a feature of authoritarian regimes, but it is not a

00:12:15.660 feature of either science or democracy. Science is dynamic. Science is always changing.

00:12:23.180 You, you know, science is a series of hypotheses that are constantly evolving as we find, as we

00:12:31.180 learn new evidence. And we're supposed to constantly in real sciences that search for empirical truths

00:12:36.940 at its best. And we ought to be always ready to look at new evidence that, you know, our old

00:12:43.500 hypotheses were, were erroneous, or were wrong, or that they have to be adjusted. And none of that

00:12:51.740 happened, none of it was permitted. Nobody, scientists who spoke out were silenced. You know, I give them

00:12:59.580 this story, I tell the story of Galileo. And Galileo, of course, who was the first person to really write

00:13:07.740 authoritatively about heliocentrism, the idea that the earth revolved around the sun, and that the earth

00:13:16.220 was not the center of the universe. And this challenged the, the Christian cosmology at the 0.86

00:13:23.020 time, which placed earth at the center of the universe with all the orbs and planets rotating

00:13:28.940 around it. And, um, and Galileo had invented a telescope, and he was able to show people that

00:13:35.740 this just was not true. And one of the things he complained about after his censure, he was

00:13:41.580 threatened either to, to, you know, to withdraw his, um, his thesis or to be burned at the stakes.

00:13:50.540 And, um, and he chose to, to recant, but he quietly was heard whispering to himself as he, as he walked

00:13:59.500 down the steps of the courthouse and yet it moves. In other words, and, and yet the earth moves.

00:14:05.980 One of the things he complained about up until his old age was that it wasn't just the clerics

00:14:12.620 who had condemned him. The, the real bitterness and shock that he felt is that his fellow scientists

00:14:20.700 refused to a man to even look through his telescope. And I think a lot of us who were struggling

00:14:28.940 with to actually reading the science during the pandemic and seeing the studies, reading the

00:14:34.700 clinical trial data from Pfizer and from Moderna, as it was released and reading the, you know,

00:14:40.140 the VAERS reports, the vaccine adverse event reporting system, the surveillance reports,

00:14:45.740 and seeing that the vaccines were not effective and that they were not safe. And that many of the

00:14:50.860 things that were being said about them officially simply were not true. We were not allowed to talk.

00:14:57.340 We were silenced. The scientists were silenced. The doctors who saw these, you know, these,

00:15:02.300 this cascade of injuries and their patients were silenced. The patients who reported their own

00:15:08.300 injuries or the death of family members were silenced.

00:15:11.420 Yeah. They were removed from the clinical trials and not even mentioned. Let me do a case in point on

00:15:17.020 that in your particular circumstance, because it, it shows exactly what you were up against and what

00:15:23.020 others like you who are raising red flags were up against. Uh, early on in the pandemic,

00:15:29.420 you challenged, uh, Dr. Fauci's assertion. I'll read it as follows. When you get vaccinated,

00:15:35.900 you not only protect your own health and that of the family, but also you contribute to the

00:15:40.300 community health by preventing the spread of the violence virus through the community. In other words,

00:15:46.300 you become a dead end to the virus. Joe Biden, July, 2021, you are not going to get COVID. If you have

00:15:53.900 these vaccinations, you said, I don't believe that I've got questions about that. I don't think it's

00:16:00.140 true. The vaccine industry's monkey studies in May of 2020, you suggested made these claims doubtful

00:16:07.180 that vaccinated monkeys both caught and transmitted COVID with the same frequency as unvaccinated

00:16:14.620 primates. You were deep platformed off of Instagram for the head. And now, of course,

00:16:20.940 we know, of course, we know that after the original variant, those vaccines didn't prevent any

00:16:26.460 transmission at all. But there was a question about the original or the original vaccine. Did that

00:16:31.180 prevent transmission? Well, this Pfizer executive went and testified for the European parliament and was

00:16:37.860 asked about that just two weeks ago. It made some national headlines, mostly in right wing

00:16:43.460 media, the Pfizer executive's admission. And here's how that went. It's soundbite too.

00:16:52.500 Was the Pfizer COVID vaccine tested on stopping the transmission of the virus before it entered the

00:17:01.940 market? If not, please say it clearly. If yes, are you willing to share the data with this committee?

00:17:10.400 And I really want a straight answer. Yes or no. And I'm looking forward to it. Thank you very much.

00:17:17.480 Regarding the question around, did we know about stopping humanization before

00:17:22.160 it's entered the market? No. These, you know, we had to really move at the speed of science to

00:17:29.500 really understand what is taking place in the market.

00:17:31.740 I haven't gone back and checked all of Pfizer's statements, but Anthony Fauci claimed that it

00:17:37.080 prevented transmission. The president of the United States told us that it prevented transmission.

00:17:41.980 And there you have Pfizer on camera admitting they had no idea, none whatsoever, whether it

00:17:47.540 prevented transmission or it didn't. You lost your platform because you said, here are studies

00:17:52.800 suggesting it does not prevent the transmission. That's just one case in point. We could go through

00:17:57.200 dozens of others, but do you feel vindicated? Um, well, you know what, during that, at that time,

00:18:03.900 I had a friend who was, uh, um, who was working my, one of my sons works in an investment firm.

00:18:10.620 And he had a boss who was, um, who was interested in making, uh, bets on some of the vaccine companies.

00:18:18.000 And he called me up and asked me what I thought about the vaccines. And I said,

00:18:23.980 and that monkey study had just kind of come out. And the monkey study showed the fact that the,

00:18:29.360 that the monkeys, the macaques that they had given the vaccine to when they then exposed them to COVID,

00:18:36.760 that the vaccinated monkeys had the same concentrations of, of COVID virus in their nasal pharynx

00:18:44.820 as the unvaccinated monkeys. And that's pretty clear. It doesn't prevent transmission. That's

00:18:50.360 where the transmission comes from. So I said to this guy, this is how naive I was still,

00:18:56.540 even after 18 years of doing this work, um, and understanding the power of this industry.

00:19:02.640 And I said, at that time, there's no way that these, uh, products can be brought to market because

00:19:08.000 the science is very clear. They don't prevent transmission. They cannot stop the disease.

00:19:12.720 And then there's a lot of danger about giving a leaky vaccine. One that does not provide sterilizing

00:19:20.100 immunity during the, the middle of a pandemic, because now what you're doing is you're turning

00:19:26.840 everybody who gets the vaccine and then gets COVID into a variant factory, you know, the same way that

00:19:34.800 if you gave sub therapeutic antibiotics to people and allowed the disease to figure out how to get around

00:19:41.600 the defenses of the antibiotics. Now you're breeding variants that are super variants that understand

00:19:49.180 how to escape the vaccine. And this was many people were writing about this. So I'm a scientist,

00:19:56.020 but nobody was reading them. And I was saying, I said to this guy, you should not bet on the Pfizer

00:20:01.860 vaccine because there's no way that this is, that they're ever going to, no matter how crazy they are,

00:20:07.720 they're not going to put this on the market, but I was wrong. And, but I did write about it. And of

00:20:13.640 course, and Megan, you know, this cause you read some of my stuff. I don't go out there and say the

00:20:19.220 vaccine won't work, you know, and you shouldn't take it. I don't give that advice. I tell people,

00:20:24.520 here's what the science says. And this suggests, unless they got something else to show us,

00:20:30.940 this suggests that they know it's not going to work to prevent transmission.

00:20:35.220 It may have some other benefit. And by the way, we're still waiting to see what that other benefit

00:20:42.440 was or is because the data doesn't really support any benefit from this vaccine. But,

00:20:51.400 you know, there may be, maybe a few thousand people have, have gotten some benefit from it, but

00:20:58.960 there's a lot of people have been injured. That's the, that's the thing is the vaccine injury.

00:21:06.060 And in particular now myocarditis risk and risk of death in young men, age 16 to 24. You point out

00:21:15.000 in your book that these Scandinavian countries have banned the Moderna vaccine for, I think it's,

00:21:23.180 is it all people or is it just men under the age of 30? And there's a very good reason for that. 0.99

00:21:27.340 Recommended for people under 30.

00:21:30.440 Okay. And, and so, and when we talk about the risk of myocarditis here, what you hear from the

00:21:35.520 American authorities all the time is your risk of getting myocarditis is much greater from contracting

00:21:41.940 COVID than it is as a result of the vaccine. So get the vaccine because if you get COVID,

00:21:48.180 you're much more likely to get myocarditis, but is that true? No, that's not true. The, the,

00:21:55.860 there, there are studies out there that have looked specifically at that issue and the risk of

00:22:01.700 myocarditis from the vaccine is enormous. And the risk of myocarditis from COVID is rather low. I mean,

00:22:09.140 the, the probable risk of symptomatic myocarditis is probably around one in 2,200 to one in 2,700

00:22:19.000 children and from the vaccine. And then there's asymptomatic myocarditis that may be much, much

00:22:28.760 higher. The day, you know, myocarditis is a very, very serious disease historically about,

00:22:36.860 we don't know what's going to happen with these vaccine-induced myocarditis cases,

00:22:41.880 but historically about 50% of people who are diagnosed with myocarditis die within five years

00:22:51.460 or require a heart transplant. So there's no real indication that myocarditis will ever go away or

00:22:58.400 ever get better. The people who are injured by it are probably permanently injured. And it is only one

00:23:04.680 of many, many serious side effects. Boys tend to get it more than girls. The girls are much more 0.89

00:23:12.040 susceptible to neurological injuries, including really serious and devastating neurological injuries.

00:23:18.840 And Maddie DeGarry, who's one of the people who volunteered for this study, one of 1,100 girls

00:23:25.220 who got the vaccine in the study is now in a wheelchair, apparently for life. And she is

00:23:31.000 eating from a feeding tube. And one of the really disturbing things is that Pfizer reported her

00:23:41.100 injury as a stomach ache. So what we know is that we can't really trust even the really devastating

00:23:49.460 clinical trial data. Anybody who reads the clinical trial data, I don't think they would

00:23:55.440 take the vaccine. More people died in the vaccine group than the placebo group. 23% more people died in

00:24:02.960 the vaccine group. But why would you take a vaccine that within six months, you have a 23%

00:24:09.380 higher likelihood of dying?

00:24:11.580 Well, you know that you don't, we don't know if it was the vaccine that caused the death.

00:24:17.480 Oh, of course not. Except Pfizer sold us the vaccine based upon that clinical trial data.

00:24:27.360 So wait, and then can I just jump in and then Bobby, can you speak to this then refused and continues to

00:24:33.860 refuse to release the underlying data? Like the reason you can't answer that question and I can't answer

00:24:40.200 that question is because Pfizer and Moderna won't release the information about what the comorbidities

00:24:47.300 were, what the ages were, what give us the facts around the people who died.

00:24:51.120 Yeah. And I mean, you know, and we're Aaron Seery, my colleague is suing them right now.

00:24:56.480 And Pfizer has taken the position and very disturbed, troubling, troubling that FDA has intervened

00:25:03.740 on behalf of Pfizer to say that we don't want to give anybody this data for 75 years.

00:25:11.240 And these are, you know, there's a government agency and a vaccine company that says, yeah,

00:25:15.920 we're going to rush the vaccine. So we're going to be super transparent. We're going to have,

00:25:19.720 you know, have all these safeguards. And then they threw all the safeguards out.

00:25:24.540 They said, we're going to do a five-year study. And, you know, I'm sure, Megan, you've seen that

00:25:30.740 tape from Anthony Fauci from 2002, where he's talking about vaccines. And he says, you can't

00:25:37.140 do a vaccine in under 12 years. You cannot approve it because you could have really good results for

00:25:43.660 the first year and you could have really good results for the second year. But 12 years later,

00:25:48.800 you have mayhem where all of these long-term injuries with long incubation periods, with long

00:25:55.820 diagnostic horizons suddenly appear. What they said is we're going to do five-year study and we're

00:26:03.200 going to give an emergency use authorization after a year. And we're going to continue to see what

00:26:09.380 happens to the placebo group and compare them to the vaccine group for five years. What do they do

00:26:14.820 after two months? They unblinded the study and they gave the vaccine to the placebo group.

00:26:22.240 Yeah. They tried to get rid of the placebo group. 0.84

00:26:25.720 And that doesn't make any sense. But the point you made before, because I don't want people to think

00:26:29.960 I was making a leap that is impermissible. What I was saying is that we're inappropriate.

00:26:39.960 Period. Pfizer got its license based upon the six-month data set. And if you look at that six-month

00:26:50.320 data set, the all-cause mortality in that, which means they look at there's 22,000 people in the

00:26:58.440 vaccine group, 22,000 people roughly in the placebo group. And they look at that for six months and they

00:27:05.720 say, how many people died of COVID? Well, here's what it said. In the vaccine group, one person died

00:27:12.840 of COVID. In the placebo group, two people died of COVID. So they can then say, well, the vaccine is

00:27:20.540 100% effective because two is 100% of one. And most people, Americans, and they know this, that most

00:27:30.000 Americans, when they hear the vaccine is 100% effective, what they think is, if I get the

00:27:34.680 vaccine, I'm 100% not going to get COVID. That's not what it is. What it really means is

00:27:39.760 you have to give 22,000 vaccines to prevent one COVID death. And if you're going to give 22,000

00:27:47.760 vaccines, you better make sure that the vaccine isn't killing one person in those 22,000, because

00:27:53.380 if it is, you've canceled out the entire benefit. So they do that study and it's called the all cause

00:28:00.700 mortality data set. And that is, I think it's, it's illustration number five in there, you know,

00:28:10.280 and anybody can go look this up and you have to kind of do the reading afterwards because there's

00:28:15.780 some stuff they left out. But what they, what they come up with is that there are, this is the punchline

00:28:23.020 that 21 people died. The 22,000, the vaccine group, 21 died over six months. In the placebo group,

00:28:34.600 only 18 died. And what that means is that by their own count, I'm not saying it's true because

00:28:43.880 nothing about this study is true. Nothing is true. You know, Harvey Risch, who's this, you know,

00:28:50.360 one of the world's greatest statisticians has said, you can't do a study with 22,000 people in it.

00:28:57.300 You need 44, 440,000 to be able to tell anything about the vaccine because the, because the COVID

00:29:06.160 rates are so low. So you really won't be able to tell anything unless you have a study 10 to 20 times

00:29:11.960 that size. So nothing about this. You can't really say anything about the vaccine from this study,

00:29:17.660 but they did anyway. They got a permit based upon this lousy little study. They got a permit to give

00:29:25.120 this to 320 million Americans. And, but if you look at their own data that they submitted to,

00:29:32.980 to FDA, their data says that if you get the vaccine, you're 23% more likely to die over the six months,

00:29:42.180 over the next six months, then if you don't. And what was killing them? Cardiac arrests.

00:29:48.300 Oh, there was five, four, it was five cardiac arrests in the vaccine group and only one in the

00:29:55.540 placebo group. And what that would mean again, with all the provisos and caveats that I put on before

00:30:02.480 is that if you get the vaccine, you're five times more likely to die from a cardiac arrest

00:30:08.360 over the next six months. And if you don't, and what it also means for every life is saved from COVID

00:30:15.420 or people are dying from cardiac arrest. And I just want to point this out. I just want to point

00:30:21.040 this out. So, um, JAMA cardiology, uh, they, they published a study. It was, uh, April of 2022.

00:30:28.880 And they concluded that both the first and second doses of the mRNA vaccines were associated with an

00:30:34.500 increased risk of myocarditis and pericarditis heart conditions for individuals receiving two doses of

00:30:40.520 the same vaccine. The risk of myocarditis was highest among young men aged 16 to 24 after the

00:30:47.240 second dose. And they went on to say studies of long, the long-term prognosis of vaccine associated

00:30:53.560 cases of myocarditis are lacking and are urgently needed. They were saying they don't know what's

00:31:00.240 going to happen to these young men who got myocarditis. You point out potentially as high

00:31:04.740 as a 50% death rate. That's as I understand it for severe myocarditis, not for the more mild kind,

00:31:11.560 but some of these kids don't even know some of these kids get myocarditis. They may not even know

00:31:17.800 that they have it unless they get a cardiac screening. Yeah. I mean, that's frightening for

00:31:22.440 parents like myself. Look, I have seven kids and, um, a bunch of them got the vaccine and they had

00:31:31.380 to take three doses to go to school. Yeah. Oh, you know, they had to make a choice. Am I not going

00:31:37.560 to go to law school or am I going to get this vaccine? And that, and, you know, and they don't

00:31:42.220 want to, um, they don't want to be dishonest with anybody. They don't want to get a fake vaccine card

00:31:48.640 or anything like that. So they had to go get those vaccines. And, um, and I'm worried about that.

00:31:55.580 I'm worried about what, you know, they play sports. I have a son who's on the rugby team at his college

00:32:03.160 and I'm worried because it's athletes who are dying and it's that kind of high intensity aerobic sports

00:32:09.660 where we're seeing these, you know, 1100 athletes that we've recorded now that have collapsed on the

00:32:15.340 field. And, you know, most, if not many, if not most of those have died and we're seeing it again

00:32:23.100 and again. So parents like myself who have vaccinated children have a right to worry about this.

00:32:30.900 Now, I will say this, we looked at that at, uh, for a show we did not long ago and,

00:32:35.240 and they were saying that young people, though we don't often call attention to it,

00:32:41.480 forgive the term, drop dead of heart attacks on sports fields.

00:32:45.340 All the time and have even before COVID and the vaccines, you know, so what we need is a study

00:32:51.260 that compares the rate of death amongst these young people now post-vaccination to what was

00:32:56.100 happening before when, um, yeah, I'm sure there, that there are, you know, documents showing,

00:33:01.180 uh, what it is.

00:33:02.720 One of the things that jumped out at me in your book is use, you cited, I can decide.org.

00:33:15.520 Um, it's a group, uh, that has banded together with some attorneys to try to get information

00:33:20.940 from the federal government on the vaccines. And in March of 22, they submitted to FOIA requests

00:33:26.480 to the CDC for documentation. How many confirmed COVID-19 deaths have there been in children 11 or

00:33:35.460 younger and in children between the 12 to 15 year old age groups? How many confirmed deaths have

00:33:41.520 there been to the CDC? And on March 10th, 2022, you point out the CDC responded, we have not conducted

00:33:48.180 the analysis requested for this age group. And therefore we cannot provide you with a data product

00:33:55.140 in response, but publicly the CDC is claiming that COVID ranks as one of the top 10 causes of death

00:34:01.780 for children age five to 11 years. This is why some parents are so paranoid because they have the

00:34:09.980 misfortune of believing Rochelle Walensky that it's a top 10 cause of death for the young ones.

00:34:16.260 But as you point out in the book, when asked to submit the proof, they say, we have, we don't

00:34:21.360 have that data set. We haven't done that research. Yeah. And I, you know, I think people have this

00:34:26.920 feeling that, um, uh, everybody got vaccinated and COVID now is not as dangerous as it used to be.

00:34:33.460 So the vaccine must have done it. The vaccine must be saving lives, but I have not seen any data that

00:34:41.040 shows that. And, you know, those kinds of data are easy to get, but what we're seeing from, for example,

00:34:47.420 from the insurance industry, from the CDC, as you point out is, uh, either deliberately or because of

00:34:56.040 incompetence, they're not producing the kind of data that would allow us to do rational decision-making

00:35:03.820 as individuals or, or as a nation. And that's been one of the most disturbing features of the government

00:35:09.400 management of this, uh, pandemic is the, um, is the obfuscation about good information. Um, but

00:35:18.880 there's a number of people now who have gone out to, and Ed Dowd is one of them, who's, you know,

00:35:23.920 the BlackRock executive, former BlackRock executive, who's gone out to the insurance industry.

00:35:29.520 And the insurance industry is panicked about this because we're, they're seeing a 40% rise in

00:35:36.120 unexplained deaths and excess deaths. And they're occurring in young people in 2022. So over 2021,

00:35:48.760 the number of people who are dying, um, since mass vaccination is much higher than the people who

00:35:56.040 are dying from COVID. Okay. But wait, but wait, this is what doctors can say. There's a number

00:36:01.020 of other ways. We don't know if it's the vaccine or, or death of despair or, you know, drug overdoses.

00:36:06.580 And, you know, it doesn't necessarily have to be from COVID if it's not the vaccine, but it could

00:36:10.660 be from a whole host of other things that have been caused during the pandemic. A whole host of

00:36:13.820 other things. And we ought to have that data. We ought to know that. Why is CDC discouraging

00:36:20.200 coroners and morticians and public health authorities from doing autopsies on people

00:36:27.100 whose deaths are suspect? You know, there, there's a deliberate obfuscation of data that we've seen

00:36:32.540 from the beginning of the pandemic, but there's a lot of other kind of data sources that appear to

00:36:38.800 indicate, Megan, that the vaccine is causing more deaths and injuries than it is averting.

00:36:45.080 One of those data points is the nation by nation data. And this is in my book that show that the

00:36:54.280 nations that have the highest vaccination rates also have the highest death rates from COVID and

00:37:00.440 non-COVID deaths. And, and there are many, many others, and you can do, you know, you can do

00:37:07.460 state by state comparisons. And there's not, there's a lot of clever people who are looking at this right

00:37:12.940 now. And I have not seen any data that indicate with one exception, which is a very weak study

00:37:20.660 that is now being cited. Um, and, uh, I'm not seeing any study or any really even common sense

00:37:30.520 argument based on science or anything else, or any form of empiricism that shows that the vaccine is

00:37:38.460 actually saving lives. I think the vaccine appears to be doing what the, uh, what the clinical trial

00:37:45.600 indicated it would do, which is to increase mortality in the vaccine group over the, um, over the placebo

00:37:53.660 group. The one study that I'm talking about is a study that is now being widely cited by the New York

00:38:00.720 Times and everybody else with some glee, it appears, um, that indicates that Republican states, um, have a

00:38:11.900 higher death rate from COVID and Democratic states. In other words, the red states are doing worse

00:38:19.260 from COVID and the blue states. Um, but it's a, it's a fairly kind of, uh, sophomoric study that it,

00:38:29.860 you can't say anything about the vaccines. And it may be true that more Republicans and Republican

00:38:35.860 states died from COVID, but there are a lot of other co-variables, you know, those states tend to be

00:38:41.520 poorer states. There are also lots of studies that show, um, that, uh, those, the, the, the regions that are

00:38:49.560 more dependent on fast food, they have higher levels of diabetes, of, of, uh, obesity, which are the

00:38:56.620 primary co-variables that, you know, predict COVID deaths. It, I noticed in the study, I think this is

00:39:03.800 true, that they also include Florida in that study. And so you're looking at a, um, uh, population that

00:39:10.780 is disproportionately elderly and we have no idea. There's no indication that this has anything to do

00:39:16.100 with vaccination status. It's, uh, you know, that's very speculative, but that's literally the only

00:39:22.300 study that I've seen cited with a proposition that the vaccine is actually saving lives. And I can't

00:39:29.120 say whether it is or it is, and I suspect it is not. I suspect the vaccine is causing more deaths

00:39:34.420 and it's, uh, and it is averting, uh, but I cannot give you the numbers and it's not my fault that I

00:39:40.900 can't, because we have looked at every kind of permutation of data that the government will allow

00:39:48.780 us to see. And he, and it's very, very hard to come up with exact numbers and looking at that.

00:39:54.960 And that is, I have to say, it has to be deliberate. These are the first thing. If you

00:40:01.100 were a public at a minimum, it's a dereliction and it could be deliberate. Wait, let me just stand by

00:40:05.160 it. I want to get back to your theory that it's deliberate. Um, because the only thing that jumped

00:40:11.700 out at me on this, cause there is a question. I mean, I saw, I saw the charts in your book that

00:40:15.880 showed a spike in deaths post mass vaccinations and not exactly post COVID outbreaks, you know,

00:40:23.720 the, the, the spikes came post mass vaccinations. Um, but then I looked at Sweden and they're heavily

00:40:31.960 vaccinated, but they didn't have the spike in morbidity. And I, so that to me suggested that

00:40:39.660 maybe it's more lockdown deaths, you know, deaths of despair here that we're seeing as opposed to

00:40:47.980 necessarily tied to vaccines. I realize there's a different, I have those charts, um, which are

00:40:54.100 from Johns Hopkins data or every country in the world. And, and, and it's very, very consistent

00:41:01.040 after mass vaccination, um, irrespective of lockdown status, because the vaccinations came after a year

00:41:08.700 of lockdown or six months of lockdown, lockdowns were already in, in place in many places. Like

00:41:15.140 I, and I know of Australia and Austria and many others are virtually in every place. And yet you're

00:41:22.100 still seeing these, um, you know, these huge spikes in COVID deaths immediately after vaccination.

00:41:30.500 I'll tell you one other thing we're getting now, we're getting good data, um, certain countries that

00:41:39.920 were early adopters of the vaccine, like Israel, like Singapore, Japan, um, New York state, uh, which has

00:41:50.500 a good database and other places, the UK, et cetera. And what we're seeing is a, um, evidence

00:42:00.480 of a phenomenon that was predicted at the outset called antibody dependent enhancement. It's also

00:42:07.920 called, um, uh, paradoxical priming. And what it means is that the vaccine, um, directs your immune

00:42:20.140 system to one, to a single strain of a single clade of a single, um, pathogen. And in doing so,

00:42:30.460 it weakens the rest of your immune system and makes you susceptible after a certain amount of time

00:42:38.120 to not only that infection, um, not only other strains, uh, but that infection as well and other

00:42:47.960 diseases. And what we're seeing is now that the vaccine appears to have, here's what, what I, the way

00:42:56.180 that I read the data and this is a hypothesis. So people should not believe me. And I always say

00:43:01.200 this, people need to read the science on their own, but I'm going to give you the hypothesis that

00:43:06.880 I think is true. And you know, that if I, if you can show me data that is not true, then I will correct

00:43:13.680 it. So this is just a hypothesis, but what did it be? But a lot of people believe this and there's a lot

00:43:19.580 of data to support it, that the vaccine is ineffective for the first six weeks after the

00:43:27.400 first shot, I'm assuming a two shot, you know, a two dose vaccine like Pfizer or Moderna. And that

00:43:34.600 during that period, the COVID infection rate goes up and the death rate goes up and the, the data,

00:43:41.620 that the official data do not count you as vaccinated until two weeks after the second

00:43:46.760 shot. So the deaths that happened during that first six weeks are attributed to unvaccinated

00:43:52.880 people, to the unvaccinated group, which is not, which is, it's a, it's a trick. It's a statistical

00:43:59.400 trick. Then the vaccine appears to provide immunity and good immunity during the first month or two

00:44:07.620 months. And then a precipitous decline, a waning that happens very, very quickly and very precipitously

00:44:15.140 so that by the seventh month, it has lapsed into negative efficacy. And what that means is that after

00:44:23.020 seven months, if you had that vaccine, you are more likely to get COVID and somebody who has never been

00:44:31.540 vaccinated. And this data is holding up across every country in the world that we have good data

00:44:39.780 sets. And this is exactly the problem that so many scientists warned about at the beginning,

00:44:46.320 including Anthony Fauci. Anthony Fauci, and you can dig up this tape, said at the beginning of the

00:44:53.100 pandemic that you could have a vaccine that can actually make it more likely for you to get sick

00:45:00.160 and for you to die. And that would be the worst possible outcome. So you can look at Anthony

00:45:05.520 Fauci saying that Peter Hotez, who is another one of the high priests of the Orthodoxy, said the same

00:45:11.140 thing. He warned against pathogenic priming. Paul Offit also made a very public statement that is

00:45:18.380 available on YouTube, et cetera, where he also warned about it. And the reason they warned about it

00:45:23.900 is because every attempt that they have made in the past to develop a coronavirus vaccine.

00:45:31.500 Let me jump in because we have this Anthony Fauci soundbite from your documentary. You wrote a book

00:45:37.020 called The Real Anthony Fauci and an accompanying documentary. And here he is talking about the

00:45:43.040 vaccines in the way you described. Watch. There's another element to safety. And that is if you

00:45:48.580 vaccinate someone and they make an antibody response and then they get exposed and infected,

00:45:56.380 does the response that you induce actually enhance the infection and make it worse? And the only way

00:46:04.440 you'll know that is if you do an extended study, not in a normal volunteer who has no risk of infection,

00:46:12.580 but in people who are out there in a risk situation. This would not be the first time if it happened

00:46:26.940 that a vaccine that looked good in initial safety actually made people worse. It was the history of

00:46:34.960 the respiratory syncytial virus vaccine in children, which paradoxically made the children worse.

00:46:41.440 One of the HIV vaccines that we tested several years ago actually made individuals more likely

00:46:48.220 to get infected. If you take it and then a year goes by and everybody's fine, then you say,

00:46:54.800 OK, that's good. Now let's give it to 500 people. And then a year goes by and everything's fine.

00:47:00.080 Well, now let's give it to thousands of people. And then you find out that it takes 12 years

00:47:06.020 for all hell to break loose. So put that in perspective for us, Bobby. I mean, what what

00:47:11.380 he's saying is that these vaccines now I mean, he was talking to Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook there in

00:47:16.540 that original soundbite. And he's saying that some of the risks of these vaccines might only become

00:47:21.720 known later. And that if you get the vaccine and then you contract the virus, it could be that

00:47:27.200 you're in more danger, which honestly, hasn't that happened to virtually everyone who's gotten the

00:47:33.040 vaccine. You know, we all got the vaccine and then Omicron came and we all got COVID. So what does

00:47:38.520 all that mean for us? Yeah, I mean, it's hard to defend the vaccine is actually effective.

00:47:47.300 But I mean, just going back to this, this issue of antibody-dependent enhancement that actually

00:47:51.940 may make it worse. You know, I mean, there's a question out there now, Megan, if you got the,

00:47:59.040 you know, you know, all these people, including Fauci's had four vaccines and he still had COVID

00:48:05.360 twice. And, you know, and where you see that again and again and again. And, you know, the question is,

00:48:12.340 if you got vaccinated, are you more likely to get COVID immediately? We don't know that because

00:48:17.820 nobody's doing those data studies. So we have no way of telling. But here's the thing about

00:48:24.180 antibody-dependent enhancement. Antibody-dependent enhancement is really dangerous. And when they,

00:48:29.800 you know, when they experimented with these early vaccines, the people who got it, the children who

00:48:36.320 got it, who, you know, had this very good antibody response and they're exposed to the wild virus and

00:48:44.660 they die. And unvaccinated kids were not dying. So the vaccine actually makes things much worse.

00:48:51.280 And they, with coronavirus, they've tried for, what is it, for 20 years to try to develop a vaccine

00:48:59.780 that would not have that effect and they've never been able to do it. So then they rushed these two

00:49:05.000 vaccines to market. And the first one in the pipeline is Moderna. Wouldn't you think that if you,

00:49:14.100 and, you know, Fauci's agency owns 50% of that vaccine, they get 50% of the royalties from it.

00:49:20.400 He has, you know, he has people who work for him, who will get $150,000 a year for life. People who

00:49:27.840 worked on this vaccine in his agency, who he chooses, and then, you know, they get a walk-in

00:49:33.880 margin rights for the patent. They own a little piece of it. And, and so, you know, we're paying

00:49:41.320 their salary, but now they're getting royalties from the vaccine they're supposed to regulate.

00:49:45.580 They're supposed to be looking for problems in it. Well, they're not, you know, I mean,

00:49:49.820 the incentive is to not find problems in it because you're going to make, you know, you're going to

00:49:54.720 pay your mortgage with that vaccine. So, and, or pay for your boat or whatever. And anyway,

00:50:01.800 knowing what he just said, which you heard him just say, is that the last thing we want is a vaccine

00:50:08.600 that actually makes you sicker. Wouldn't you think he would have done the, the, the animal studies

00:50:15.760 before he started giving this to humans, but he didn't. He, it was unprecedented. They skipped the

00:50:22.180 animal studies altogether. Well, all right, let's talk about the booster because what we have right

00:50:26.360 now is the latest booster. They did the animal studies. They took eight mice. They injected the

00:50:33.300 booster in the eight mice and they said, we're good, which is terrifying. I mean, I've seen lots

00:50:40.840 of doctors online saying this is absurd. You know, you've got some members of the FDA actually resigning

00:50:47.200 saying this, this can't be, you can't stand on eight. Even Paul Offit has said, this is absolutely

00:50:53.660 outrageous. And, um, yet they're doing it. And in fact, in some places you're not considered fully

00:51:00.260 vaccinated unless you're boosted and the old booster doesn't count because that was against

00:51:05.180 variants that are dead and gone. You have to get the one that was tested on just the eight mice. I

00:51:10.900 mean, it's downright dangerous. Although to me, the worst thing they're doing besides giving this to

00:51:17.680 kids who have zero statistical risk from COVID. So why are we giving this to children? Cause there's a

00:51:23.820 big, we know there's a one in 2,700 risk just for myocarditis. Why would you ever give that to

00:51:29.900 somebody when there's no risk from zero statistical risk to a healthy child from COVID? Zero. So why

00:51:37.320 would you give it to somebody? And by the way, 70% of them to 80%, maybe 90% already have antibodies.

00:51:45.860 They've already been exposed or they don't need it anyway. Why would you subject them to that kind

00:51:51.740 of risk? It is something is really wrong with public health. Well, you know, Paul Offit was sitting

00:51:57.940 on that committee and in his word and he said, he did not know how they could have recommended. He's

00:52:05.440 on the committee that recommended it. He voted against it, but he said there was two people who

00:52:09.900 voted against it. The fix was in. And the way they fix it, Megan, is the guys who sit on that, men and

00:52:19.600 women who sit on that committee are people who are what they call PIs. They're largely their principal 1.00

00:52:27.840 investigators. So they work usually for universities, for big academic institutions. And their job

00:52:35.880 is to do clinical trials for vaccine companies. And so they know that they're going to vote for this

00:52:45.560 one. And when their vaccine gets in front of the committee, the committee will vote for them.

00:52:51.060 It's disgusting.

00:52:51.980 You know, there's all kinds of studies that have been done that if you serve on that committee,

00:52:57.740 you and you vote yes, yes, yes, which is what they always do. Then you get you are you are riding a

00:53:04.580 golden, you know, chariot for the rest of your life. You get grants, you get all these junkets from the

00:53:11.180 pharmaceutical companies. And a ticket on that committee is a free ride for the rest of your

00:53:19.460 life. And so all of these people, you know, Tony Fauci says, oh, it wasn't me who approved the

00:53:24.960 vaccine as an independent committee. But all of those people on that committee are working for him.

00:53:29.740 They're getting funds from NIH, develop drugs that were made by NIH, and then sold to a

00:53:37.500 pharmaceutical company. And that PI is getting half his salary from NIH and the other half from the

00:53:43.500 pharmaceutical company. And when they get that drug to market, Tony Fauci walks it through the FDA

00:53:49.660 committee where he owns all the people. He populates those committees with his guys. They rubber stamp

00:53:56.600 it. Then he brings it to the ACIP committee, the advisory committee of the immunization practices

00:54:01.300 at CDC, and they're all the same people. Alex Berenson, who was banned from Twitter for quite

00:54:10.560 some time for questioning the vaccines efficacies and questioning masking and questioning all the

00:54:16.420 same things that you've been questioning. So he got for a while permanently booted off of Twitter. He

00:54:21.280 got back on. He filed a lawsuit. But he has now revealed that Pfizer board member Scott Gottlieb

00:54:27.960 was instrumental in getting that ban in place, that Gottlieb secretly pressed Twitter to censor

00:54:34.380 Berenson in the days before Twitter actually suspended Berenson's account. Gottlieb is the former FDA

00:54:41.320 commissioner who then finds himself with his cushy seat on the Pfizer board. He apparently,

00:54:49.180 OK, this is according to Berenson, on August 24th, 2021, Scott Gottlieb sent an urgent email about

00:54:54.840 Berenson's reporting to a contact at Twitter forwarding an article that Berenson had written

00:55:00.060 about Anthony Fauci on Berenson's substack, complaining this is what's promoted on Twitter.

00:55:06.200 This is why Tony needs a security detail. But the piece did not threaten Tony Fauci or harass him in

00:55:12.880 any way. It just called him arrogant, said he was a skilled courtier and mocked his comment that attacking

00:55:18.080 him was attacking science. So here you have the Pfizer board member running cover for Anthony Fauci.

00:55:22.640 And of course, it works both ways. Gottlieb came on my program. And can I tell you,

00:55:27.740 I pressed him hard on some of the claims he was making and he became very defensive

00:55:33.140 and it didn't wind up going very well. And when it was over, he said to my team something to the

00:55:39.560 effect of, you know, I'm respected. I'm a respected authority. It's like, oh, OK, but that doesn't give

00:55:47.160 you a pass on tough questions. You're a respected authority, too. But you got tough questions.

00:55:51.920 The last time you were on most people come on and take it like men or women if they actually

00:55:56.260 know their stuff. But it reminded me of this exchange. Here's just a bit of the interview

00:56:00.540 I'm referring to a former FDA chair, Scott Gottlieb. But the masks are not effective and

00:56:06.520 there aren't studies proving that they are. The CDC's own study deal with that. Ninety thousand

00:56:12.380 students in the Atlanta School District prove that they do not have any effect.

00:56:16.820 Why isn't that valid? Why isn't the CDC relying on its own study to allow us to unmask our

00:56:22.100 children? My policy prescription would be that in the setting of a very contagious

00:56:25.740 variant that we we don't know how hard or easy it's going to be to control in a school

00:56:29.680 setting where the imperative is to keep kids in the classroom and also keep them safe.

00:56:33.740 We should go into the school year adopting all the reasonable measures that we can take and

00:56:37.800 peel them away as we masking has negative effects. Masking has negative effects on children.

00:56:42.680 That's been proven as well. This is not a harmless measure and it's not helping. So why wouldn't we

00:56:49.940 be honest about the CDC's own information? Well, that's what we're going to agree with that approach.

00:56:55.960 They didn't have any mitigation in place in a lot of those school districts. And we saw the virus

00:57:00.100 become epidemic in the schools. Now, of course, it's way through. What schools did it become epidemic

00:57:05.420 in amongst children in school spread? That's not true.

00:57:08.940 No, not it went. But that's just one example. I'm sure you could give us 10 more. The FDA,

00:57:15.000 the people who are on it and the people who are so closely tied, they miraculously wind up at big

00:57:19.140 pharma getting big paychecks right after they leave. This system is corrupt and it leads to

00:57:24.680 disinformation. You want to talk disinformation? They're purveyors of it.

00:57:29.380 Yeah, I mean, he came from the pharmaceutical industry. He was President Trump appointed him to run.

00:57:34.860 And he's part of the, you know, I mean, I don't want to, like, inject myself into it, but

00:57:40.380 President Trump asked me in January of 2016 to run a vaccine safety commission.

00:57:48.060 And when, and I agreed to do it and to study and to make sure the right studies were being done,

00:57:56.000 to make sure the vaccines were actually, each vaccine was actually working. You know,

00:58:00.720 a placebo-controlled study, the same studies that are required for every other medication and

00:58:07.280 vaccines are exempt from that. When it was announced that I was going to be running a

00:58:15.780 vaccine safety commission and the purpose of the commission, which would be to require those studies

00:58:20.240 to be done, which they all say are being done, but they're not. Oh, when it was announced that I

00:58:26.480 was being, I'm going to be put on a vaccine safety commission, there was panic throughout the

00:58:30.620 industry and the regulatory, you know, public health regulatory agencies. And Pfizer made a

00:58:38.560 million dollar contribution to, to Trump and Trump then appointed two people who were handpicked by

00:58:46.100 Pfizer, Alex Azar and Scott Gottlieb to run the public health agency and they killed the vaccine

00:58:50.900 safety commission. Wow. And Scott Gottlieb came out of the industry. And of course, but you know,

00:58:57.020 the frustrating part, and I don't know exactly how it happened. You know, I don't know why,

00:59:01.580 but they just stopped. As soon as those guys got in there, they stopped answering our phone calls or

00:59:05.860 communicating with us. But if you look at that clip, that clip was really, you know, it's kind of

00:59:13.740 a template for how they handle this. This guy is the guy who ran through operation warp speed.

00:59:21.920 Wouldn't you think he'd be going and doing his homework on this vaccine and masking and all the

00:59:29.080 other things that he was involved with and that he'd be able to field a simple question like the

00:59:35.300 one that you asked him. And all he did was, you know, was tap dance. It reminded me of that movie,

00:59:43.280 Chicago, where Richard Gere is saying, you know, give them the old razzle dazzle.

00:59:47.760 He was not answering any, any of your question. He was just, it's true. It was, I mean, it's

00:59:53.080 interesting to play it again. I guess it was just, it was classic double talk and, you know,

00:59:57.920 repeating the same thing and moving the gold and dodging and weaving and, you know, but it was.

01:00:03.080 And then at the end, to say to my staff, I am a respected authority. It's like, um,

01:00:09.420 that's not going to save you here. Right. It's like, okay. So yeah, we've got his number,

01:00:14.160 but let me stay for a moment on the censorship. You got censored. And by the way, we didn't even

01:00:18.600 talk about children's health defense fund. They got your, your organization got censored from

01:00:23.260 Instagram and Facebook and booted off for raising these very questions. Now we talked about

01:00:28.460 Berenson, Joseph Lodipo, the surgeon general of Florida. So he just got suspended on Twitter.

01:00:35.440 Then after public shaming, they restored him because he's frustrated too, by the lack of honesty coming

01:00:42.460 from the vaccine companies on the downsides, especially when it comes to young men. And he

01:00:47.940 tweeted out today, we released an analysis of the COVID MRNA vaccines that the public needs to be

01:00:52.780 aware of. This analysis showed an increased risk of cardiac related death among men, 18 to 39,

01:00:59.380 Florida will not be silent on the truth. And he linked to guidance stating that they found an 84%

01:01:06.200 increase in the relative incidence of cardiac related death among males in that age group within 28 days

01:01:11.280 following the MRNA vaccination. Then his critics came out and said, Oh, that's not a real study.

01:01:17.960 It's like some word document he just put together. And Dr. Marty McCary of Johns Hopkins, he, he came out

01:01:24.760 and said, you know what? Public health officials have said, you can't make a correlation between cardiac

01:01:30.140 death and this vaccine without a formal study. And they've chosen never to do one. And, uh, he had no

01:01:38.480 problem with the way that a lot of what did it said he Florida said, we'll do it ourselves. He said,

01:01:42.900 they used a very elegant study design. Let's look at all the heart attacks. Six months after COVID

01:01:46.940 vaccination, ask ourselves, did they occur at an equal distribution over those six months or were

01:01:52.000 they clustered in the month after the vaccine? And they found that they were clustered in the immediate

01:01:56.020 four weeks after the vaccination. But you see it here too, over and over the establishment works

01:02:01.400 together to shame, well, to silence and to shame, to shame. The shaming is part of it. Critics who come

01:02:09.040 out with information that might reflect negatively on the vaccine, instead of saying, Holy God, 16 and

01:02:14.620 18 and 20 year olds are dying as a result of myocarditis caused by the vaccine. Shouldn't we stop

01:02:22.260 that? Well, it's like our country seems to be the only one that isn't willing to reevaluate Bobby,

01:02:27.880 right? Like we talked about the Scandinavian countries. Why are they so open-minded? And we

01:02:32.020 aren't. Yeah. I, you know, I think Joe Latipo, who's the Surgeon General of Florida

01:02:37.200 is a real problem for Democrats because he's very courageous. Um, and he's very, very credible. And

01:02:45.860 he's, you know, he's a, he's a black American with a really, you know, rags to riches story.

01:02:52.840 That's extraordinary. He's one of these guys who's like 180 IQ, really smart,

01:03:01.020 amazing pedigree, ultra liberal, you know, UCLA, um, uh, professor or graduate, you know,

01:03:08.960 just extraordinary credentials. And DeSantis tapped him to come to Florida and he didn't have any,

01:03:16.240 I've, I've, I've talked to him many times before. He didn't have any kind of, um, three, uh, uh, you

01:03:24.280 know, um, uh, opinions or he, he didn't come with an agenda. He's not, you know, a Trumper or anything

01:03:33.280 like that. He's just looking at the, he's just a guy who's looking at the science and then saying,

01:03:38.540 okay, my job is to protect children. This is how I'm going to do it. And, you know, he's getting,

01:03:45.460 he's getting burned at the stake for it. I, you know, I'll say another thing because you had,

01:03:52.440 you and I had an, uh, you know, an earlier, um, kind of conversation or repartee about,

01:04:00.240 um, um, whether or not the, the obfuscation of data, which is such a strong feature of the,

01:04:07.780 uh, governmental management of the COVID crisis is deliberate or not. And yeah, um, one of the

01:04:15.460 things, you know, one of the real problems is that they don't have a good vaccine. First of all,

01:04:20.920 you don't have any re-licensing studies and you couldn't have good pre-licensing studies with

01:04:27.760 these vaccines because they were rushed to market after, you know, two months, nothing like this

01:04:32.340 has ever happened before. And after two months clinical trial, two months of clinical data,

01:04:38.000 they were rushed to eat to emergency use authorization. Um, but what they said is we're

01:04:43.760 going to really look at them when they get a market. And as they start injuring people, we're

01:04:47.500 going to, um, you know, we'll pull them. Well, the problem is that implies that you have a

01:04:54.160 surveillance system that actually functions and they don't, they have a surveillance system that

01:05:00.420 was built to fail. And the reason I can say that is because it's called the VAERS system. It's called

01:05:07.220 the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. And the way it works is if a doctor gives you a vaccine and

01:05:14.260 you get injured, the doctor then, or you, you'll never know to do this. So you're not individuals

01:05:20.200 almost never call in, but the doctor is supposed to report all vaccine injuries.

01:05:26.780 There's a couple of problems. One is the doctor is told myocarditis on a vaccine injury. Therefore,

01:05:33.500 if somebody reports myocarditis or death or seizures or cancer, accelerated cancers that we're now seeing,

01:05:41.380 many doctors believe are associated with these vaccines.

01:05:45.800 I just saw an update on that. Or any of these other injuries, um, you're unlikely to report them

01:05:50.940 because you're being, and you can get punished for reporting them. You know, there are these

01:05:55.760 institutional and cultural punishments that disincentivize people from reporting them. Not

01:06:00.780 only that, if you're the doctor and you have a patient who comes in and you're saying, I'm going

01:06:06.780 to save your life. I'm going to give you this vaccine. It's natural human impulse. If you,

01:06:14.300 if that person does get injured to say, well, it wasn't the thing I did, it wasn't the intervention

01:06:18.680 I did. It was something else is natural. This is normal. Oh, we've known this for many years. I've

01:06:25.540 been a critic of the VAERS system for many years. So, but many, many people criticize the system. In

01:06:31.060 fact, um, uh, David Kessler, who was a surgeon general, uh, the system just is broken. It doesn't

01:06:37.640 work. And it collects only a tiny fraction of vaccine injuries. We, we need to redo it. When

01:06:43.740 2010 CDC hired Harvard university, a school of public health professors, they spent a lot of money

01:06:52.800 and they did a three-year study on the system. And they looked at, um, that, uh, they, they looked

01:06:59.880 at intensively a, uh, an HMO called Harvard Pilgrim. And they studied vaccine injuries in that. And then

01:07:08.820 they studied what the VAERS system was actually collecting. And what they concluded is that VAERS

01:07:16.020 collects fewer than 1% of vaccine injuries, fewer. Wow. That means that more than 99% of vaccine

01:07:24.460 injuries are escaping. And what they, what the company would in this study, people can look it

01:07:29.720 up. It's 2010. I think it was published in pediatrics, but it's called the lead author is

01:07:34.480 Lazarus. So anybody can look this up. The Lazarus study was designed to create an automated counting

01:07:43.360 system. So the way that works is you take an HMO, the HMO has everybody's vaccine records, and then

01:07:51.460 they have their medical claims. So if you get a vaccination and you come in and claim, you know,

01:07:56.260 I got diabetes, you're now getting insulin for diabetes, six years later, eight years later, or you

01:08:02.780 have food allergies, or you have autoimmune disease. They, this system, this AI system will do a cluster

01:08:09.440 analysis, which is very, very accurate. And they will correlate the particular vaccine with particular

01:08:15.840 injuries, which, which cluster around that vaccine. And it turns out with that system, you can get a

01:08:22.280 95, 98%, um, you know, of vaccine injuries are captured. So they built that system and they said,

01:08:32.440 it works like a charm and we're showing that it works and we're showing the other systems completely

01:08:38.620 broken. And this is easy to implement. And what did CDC do? They ran away from it. They put it on a

01:08:44.780 shelf and they said, we don't want to see it. They also said that there are serious injuries

01:08:51.940 in one out of every 32 vaccines given. And when CDC saw that number, they said, we do not want to

01:09:00.900 know about this. And they shelved that system. So the reason that they don't have a good VAERS system

01:09:07.120 today is deliberate. They did not want a system that would actually capture vaccine injuries. And when

01:09:13.880 you see these people like, you know, uh, uh, I like off in another saying, well, vaccine, you know,

01:09:22.180 the VAERS system is not a good judge of vaccine injury. The question is number one, why didn't you

01:09:29.120 implement the system that you got? Number two, this is your system. You've had it for 36 years.

01:09:34.240 You've known for 36 years that it doesn't work. Why didn't you fix it before? You know, it's easy to

01:09:41.400 fix. Why didn't you fix it before you get these untested vaccines? And the fact that now the

01:09:47.440 vaccines are, are mandatory is what makes it especially galling. So we intentionally don't

01:09:53.120 have a system that captures the injuries. And they're at the same time, they're requiring us

01:09:58.160 to get them in order to go into a restaurant or keep our job or enter a, a, a senior citizen's home. 0.64

01:10:04.320 My, my mother-in-law had to go briefly into an elder care facility because she got very ill and

01:10:10.300 she was time to leave the hospital and she couldn't get in unless she got the vaccine. She,

01:10:14.800 she didn't want the vaccine. I understand people say it's crazy. She's 86. She should get the vaccine.

01:10:19.540 She didn't want to get it. She did wind up having to get it to get in. Right. So it's like,

01:10:23.200 they make you get it. And at the same time, these, these officials, you know, like the,

01:10:29.700 the American Academy of Pediatrics, you just mentioned the, the, the magazine pediatrics,

01:10:33.240 the American Academy of Pediatrics is mandating the vaccine. They're recommending the vaccine for

01:10:37.600 six months and older. They want you to inject your six month old baby. Um, they're mandating

01:10:43.860 masking to this day. Did you know that for children, not mandating, but recommending still

01:10:48.200 recommending masking children as of this day, including the little ones. Um, I think it's

01:10:54.760 Vinay Prasad, Dr. Vinay Prasad has been outspoken, outspoken on COVID. He's a fair broker.

01:10:59.080 He's recommending disbanding the American Academy of Pediatrics. He says, look, some pediatricians

01:11:04.180 are good. This group is not good. They're, they're the ones who, uh, they reverse themselves

01:11:09.660 on, um, schools reopening just because Trump said he wanted them to reopen their positioning

01:11:14.680 on masking seems to be politically driven too. Like, but yet this gets thrown in your face when

01:11:20.080 you say, ah, I don't want the mask on my kid. I don't want to vaccinate my six month old.

01:11:24.320 And they say, oh, but the American Academy of Pediatrics is supposed to be some godly organization

01:11:28.660 that you have to defer to as, you know, a lay person without an MD. Uh, I mean, the American

01:11:35.180 Academy of Pediatrics gets, um, most of its funding through the, uh, journal pediatrics and

01:11:43.760 about, um, 85% of that funding comes from pharmaceutical companies. And then they get a lot

01:11:50.400 of other grants coming from pharma. So pharma owns the American Academy of Pediatrics. When

01:11:56.080 you, you know, these aren't medical opinions. These are, um, the opinions that you get from

01:12:01.740 AAP have nothing to do with public health. They have to do with pharmaceutical profits

01:12:06.760 and promoting the pharmaceutical paradigm. Um, and you know, that's been true. That's not

01:12:13.240 recent. That's been true for many, many, many years.

01:12:15.940 Wow. I mean, that is, that's stunning. If you think about it, I don't know. I just feel

01:12:20.520 like parents have trust in these organizations. They don't spend the time looking that stuff

01:12:25.660 up. And then again, when someone like you says, well, let me help you out. They, they silence

01:12:30.920 you.

01:12:31.700 The bad thing is it's not the parents, but the pediatricians trust the organization and the

01:12:36.680 pediatricians trust CDC and the pediatricians are trusting FDA. And they don't understand that

01:12:44.620 those agencies are captive agencies that their public health, um, function has been subsumed by

01:12:51.920 their mercantile relationships with pharmaceutical industry. And what they're getting is not what the

01:12:58.260 pediatricians are getting is pharmaceutical propaganda. It's not science. Why are they not

01:13:03.940 saying what the heck is happening with these children? And, you know, but it doesn't seem like

01:13:10.020 those questions, it seems like the medical schools are programming those questions out of you. So

01:13:15.980 you're just not allowed to ask fundamental questions. What is happening to children's

01:13:21.600 health in this country? Why are these kids so, why is this the sickest generation in history 1.00

01:13:28.280 with all of these, you know, diseases that were just simply did not, they were so rare in my

01:13:35.440 generation that we didn't even know about them. And, uh, and now, you know, they're all,

01:13:40.400 every classroom has EpiPens in it. Yeah. Why is nobody, what is causing that? Why is nobody

01:13:47.140 asking that question? You know, something's wrong. If you, I've never seen, let me jump in,

01:13:52.660 let me, let me jump in. Let me jump in. Cause I want to ask you something personal about this.

01:13:55.880 Um, if you do ask questions, cause now we're, we're on sort of broad vaccine, vaccination questions,

01:14:00.760 not just necessarily COVID. And by the way, this isn't just a vaccine question here. Yeah,

01:14:05.660 no, no, no. Swimming around in a toxic soup. You know, this is, as we outlined in our first

01:14:13.000 interview, this is the battle you've been waging for your entire adult life, trying to clean up

01:14:18.060 the toxic stew stew. And, um, really there was no cause for making you such a pariah. Um, but for the

01:14:26.680 questions you asked about childhood vaccinations and whether those made sense, which we got into

01:14:31.380 in our last interview at length, but I wanted to ask you if I, if you don't mind a personal

01:14:36.100 question. Um, we talked about last time, the blowback on your wife, Cheryl Hines and her Hollywood

01:14:41.980 career and just, just being your wife. That's all Cheryl has done. She hasn't weighed in on vaccines,

01:14:48.020 but your family, obviously you're for a long line of Democrats and, um, your family before the

01:14:54.680 pandemic, this is 2019 wrote an open letter going after you for your, your questions about vaccines.

01:15:01.380 This is from your sister, your brother, and your niece, Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, Joseph Kennedy

01:15:06.320 and, uh, me of Kennedy McKeon. And they wrote in part, um, that they were condemning the growing

01:15:14.200 fear and mistrust of vaccines quote amplified by internet doomsayers, Robert F. Kennedy. Um,

01:15:21.820 and going on from there and, and saying that you were part of this campaign to attack the

01:15:26.420 institutions committed to reducing the tragedy of preventable infectious diseases. He has helped

01:15:32.220 to spread dangerous misinformation over social media and is complicit in sowing distrust of the

01:15:38.980 science behind vaccines. We love Bobby. However, on vaccines, he's wrong. What did you make of that?

01:15:47.280 Your own family writing that publicly about you? Well, if you're asking, did I like it? No,

01:15:53.800 I didn't like it, but you know, listen, I, this, the positions I've taken on this issue have caused me

01:16:01.320 a lot of friendships, not, you know, um, not just with those family members, but, um, others,

01:16:08.660 my political relationships, um, jobs, income, et cetera. But, and what I keep saying to people is,

01:16:16.520 okay, listen, I could be wrong, but show me that some science show me, you know, show me something

01:16:25.580 that I show me a statement that I got wrong, actually wrong. And show me where the science

01:16:32.060 that I believe is kind of the best description of how these things are working, um, show me where

01:16:38.480 those studies are wrong, but it's hard for people to do. And I understand that I'm, you know,

01:16:43.820 compassionate about it because it took me a long time to, to walk into this woods. You know,

01:16:52.100 it was something I resisted. I had all of the, you know, I was, I don't know if we talked about this

01:16:57.600 the last time that you and I talked, but I was running Waterkeeper Alliance, which is a group

01:17:03.960 that I love and that I found, co-founded. And it was, it's the biggest water protection group in

01:17:08.880 the world. And it's 350 individual water keepers, each with a patrol boat and, um, that patrols local

01:17:15.740 waterways and sues polluters. Oh, we had about 40 lawsuits that I was involved in against, um,

01:17:23.180 plants that, uh, mainly cement kilns and coal-bring power plants that were discharging mercury. The

01:17:30.200 mercury was getting into the fish. In 2003, FDA published a report that said that a hundred percent

01:17:36.760 of freshwater fish in North America had dangerous levels of mercury in their flesh. And that just

01:17:42.080 struck me as like, we were living in a science fiction nightmare where my children, the children

01:17:48.140 of, you know, every other American could no longer engage in the seminal primal activity of American

01:17:55.100 youth, which is still fishing with their father and mother in the local fishing hole, and then come home

01:17:59.740 and safely eat the fish. We were suing them. There are other people suing coal plants, but Waterkeeper

01:18:05.540 was suing on mercury. So I knew a lot about mercury and I started giving speeches around the country and

01:18:11.840 these women started hounding me. They were, wherever I spoke, these women would come in early 1.00

01:18:18.040 and they'd occupy the front seat. It was different group every time, mostly. And then afterwards they

01:18:24.120 would come up, politely confront me and say, you know, and respectfully, but in a vaguely scolding way,

01:18:31.840 say, if you're really interested in mercury exposures to children, you need to look at vaccines because

01:18:37.620 it warfs what they're getting from fish. And I didn't want to do it. And it wasn't an area that I

01:18:44.980 wanted to get involved in. Did you know it would be happening? And one of these women showed up at my 1.00

01:18:49.960 house and I had a sport. I, did I already tell you this story? Yeah, I heard this the first time.

01:18:55.340 There's a woman named Sarah Bridges. She's a psychologist and she had an 18 inch thick

01:18:59.580 pile of scientific studies. And she said, I'm not leaving here till you read them. And I read the

01:19:05.260 abstracts and I saw what, you know, that there's this huge delta between what the public health

01:19:11.320 authorities were saying and about vaccine safety and what the actual science was saying. And I

01:19:17.600 called people like Francis Collins, who I knew and all these other people. And I began to slowly realize

01:19:24.420 that the public health authorities either were not conversing with the science or that they were

01:19:31.040 lying. But it was a long, gradual journey for me that took a lot of years to kind of get a more

01:19:39.420 expansive view about what's happening. So I know that I can't expect, you know, people like my family

01:19:45.380 members who do not have the time to make this kind of exploration to believe me. And they see me and

01:19:52.140 they say, oh, he must be crazy. Why is he crazy? Because all the other stuff he says makes sense. But 0.76

01:19:58.300 he, you know, everybody we know, we trust, we believe in all of our doctors who, you know,

01:20:04.560 Bobby didn't go to medical school. Yeah, we got doctors who we trust, Maeve, you know, who sadly

01:20:11.040 was died during the pandemic with her 10 year old boy and a drowning incident, who wrote that article

01:20:18.320 was a, you know, was a public health, a rising czar in public health. She worked for Francis Collins

01:20:27.440 agency for NIH. She had her own center there. And she was horrified by what he was doing. She believed it.

01:20:34.800 And, um, and so I don't like, I don't hold this against people that they don't believe me. I,

01:20:42.240 what, but what I say is let's have a discussion. Let's have a congenial, respectful debate about

01:20:49.280 this and let's try to keep it on the science and away from the ad hominem attacks. Um, I, you know,

01:20:56.080 I'm, you know, I don't, when people attack me, other people's opinions of me, Megan, I feel like

01:21:05.360 they're not my business. I know what I have to do. I know what I believe the truth to be, but I also

01:21:11.040 know if somebody shows me I'm wrong, I am not hard headed. I'm not dug in about, you know, my worldview.

01:21:19.360 I, I changing my worldview all the time based upon new actual inputs. And all I need is somebody to

01:21:26.720 show me where I'm wrong. And then I, and I will be grateful to them because I can walk away from

01:21:31.440 this and go back to water keeper, which is what I want to be doing.

01:21:38.960 My producers dug up the following quote from you in 2016 to vanity fair. And I, I really love to ask

01:21:46.500 you about it. You wrote, I, you said, I think Donald Trump is dangerous and deceptive and he's a 0.93

01:21:51.960 demagogue. I don't think it should surprise anybody to see how well he's doing because that kind of

01:21:57.680 demagoguery is formulaic and it's easy. There are buttons that you can push of bigotry and xenophobia

01:22:03.720 and prejudice and anger and self-interest and nationalism, false patriotism. So has your opinion

01:22:11.200 of him changed since then? No, I wouldn't say so. I think that's true. What I said then is true. I think

01:22:19.960 the easiest thing for a politician to do is to, um, um, is to appeal to that kind of darker side of

01:22:28.880 people. And I think, um, you know, he was, he's very, very good at, at understanding where those,

01:22:37.500 uh, those kinds of buttons are. I think what my dad tried to do, uh, was different and was much harder,

01:22:45.360 which is to try to, um, to try to, uh, to tell, to tell, to get people to believe that they're part

01:22:55.600 of a community, to find kind of the, the hero in everybody and, and, um, and the willingness to

01:23:03.220 take risks and make sacrifices for the good of the whole. And, you know, when my dad died,

01:23:09.420 my, my most poignant memories of him is when we waked him up in St. Patrick's and then brought him

01:23:16.020 down on the train. And there was, uh, a couple million people on the tracks, but they were every

01:23:22.120 color, you know, there were black people in Newark. We, we took them from New York down to, uh, Penn

01:23:28.040 station in Washington, or to a union station in Washington, DC. And, um, there were black, 0.92

01:23:35.300 these crowds of black singing the battle of the Republic and in the train station, just jamming

01:23:40.640 the train stations in Newark and, um, Philadelphia and Baltimore. There were white veterans on the

01:23:48.240 tracks the whole way down. There were, I remember a group of about six or nine nuns standing in the

01:23:54.000 back of the pickup truck. There were boy scouts. There were, uh, little leaguers who were standing,

01:23:59.140 saluting as we went by. Um, there was every, it was a cross section of the, of the American experience

01:24:07.360 and all these very different people who had, um, who, you know, supporting my dad. Now, four years later,

01:24:17.000 I remember when I was at college and studying politics and, and I read these demographic data

01:24:24.640 that showed that four years after that in 1972, so my dad died in 68, in 72, almost all of the white 0.89

01:24:33.000 people who had been lining that track were voting, not for George McGovern, who was very much aligned

01:24:38.500 with my dad, but for George Wallace, who was antithetical to everything my father believed in.

01:24:44.640 Of the people who believed in my, who were, you know, who were willing to support my father's

01:24:50.960 and to put their prejudices, the nationalism, the patriotism, false patriotism and all this aside and

01:24:56.800 say, we have, we're willing to buy into this idealistic view of America. Four years later,

01:25:04.980 they were done with it. And they were like, I got to protect myself and I'm going to protect myself

01:25:10.340 against other races and other colors and people don't look like me. And, you know, all the people

01:25:15.620 seem like they're out to get me. And, you know, the people in this country today, and this is what

01:25:21.140 I think the liberals have lost track of, they, the middle class is being systematically dismantled.

01:25:28.140 People are getting screwed and they're angry and the liberal party today is not offering them

01:25:34.900 anything. It's not telling them, you know, it's not validating their anger and their rage. 0.96

01:25:41.780 It's, um, it's telling them they're deplorable and it's telling them, you know, that they're,

01:25:48.860 that they should have other concerns. And, uh, it's, uh, and I think that, you know, Trump is able,

01:25:57.160 Trump doesn't tell them that Trump validates those concerns. And I think that that makes him,

01:26:02.500 and he's fearless and he's, um, you know, he has all these kinds of manly qualities that are,

01:26:10.680 you know, the, what the, the, um, the heroic figure on the white horse, who's going to come

01:26:16.100 in and, and save you. Do I think he's actually going to do that? No, I watched him collapse and

01:26:22.340 fold in front of Anthony Fauci, but I think, you know, and I don't think he has the patience to

01:26:28.920 understand policy or to delve into it. And I don't, you know, I think, uh, it, his approach is not

01:26:36.180 about trying to solve the problems, but you know, to break things and a lot of people want things

01:26:42.400 broken right now. So, you know, I understand, I completely, utterly understand his appeal. And

01:26:49.220 I don't think those Americans who support him are, um, you know, are bad people. I think they're the

01:26:56.900 core of our country. And I think if we don't figure out a way to get Americans to start talking to each

01:27:02.360 other about the values that we share, um, that our country is headed for some, for a very, very dark

01:27:09.000 place. And that, you know, I think people who call themselves liberals have to remember what the,

01:27:15.920 you know, what liberalism stood for. And that, you know, we were the party of the unions. We weren't

01:27:20.820 the party that were defunding the police and that we're, you know, telling people that inflation

01:27:26.680 doesn't exist when, you know, they're getting crucified by it. And that, you know, are going

01:27:32.420 to endless wars that, you know, at a time when, um, you know, gasoline prices, or I paid, just paid

01:27:39.920 seven bucks a gallon for gasoline. Now, you know, we're paying for the Ukraine war with that.

01:27:45.460 Let me ask, let me ask you something about that. I, uh, two questions for you on, um, politics and war.

01:27:50.440 Um, Herschel Walker has been in the news and, uh, his personal life is what's been in the news.

01:27:57.980 And if, if the reports are true and he denies many of them, he hasn't been a particularly great dad,

01:28:04.300 uh, to the children that he's had and his various girlfriends have had, and he hasn't been a

01:28:11.860 particularly good romantic partner. And there's a debate in the Republican party about should it

01:28:17.040 matter because they really want control of the Senate, you know, and they would like to overlook

01:28:22.740 those foibles. And of course, Raphael Warnock has some of his own, his opponent, but I wonder as a

01:28:27.660 Kennedy, you know, you're kind of a good person to ask since we now know JFK had, you know, a long

01:28:32.760 line of reported affairs when he was married. And, you know, had we, had we zeroed in on those back

01:28:37.480 then in the country, the way it was back then that, that might've made a difference politically.

01:28:42.180 Obviously Ted Kennedy, Chappaquiddick, the whole other story. So what's your opinion? You know,

01:28:48.640 should it, should it matter if Herschel Walker has other kids who he fathered, but didn't take care

01:28:53.740 of if he had, if he got a woman pregnant and paid for an abortion for her and then wound up being

01:28:59.320 staunchly anti-abortion and so on, should it matter or should it just matter how the person's going to

01:29:05.960 vote? I'm not sure, you know, I think people, I really can't answer about whether it should

01:29:17.220 matter or not. I mean, I think there's, you know, there's personal integrity and their public

01:29:22.840 integrity and that they're two different things. And, you know, a lot of people voted for Donald

01:29:28.800 Trump because I'm not believing that he had an exemplary personal life. And I'm willing to

01:29:38.580 overlook that because he was bringing some other things to the table. So I'm not going to say

01:29:42.640 whether, whether, you know, people should be concerned about that, about people's private

01:29:48.440 lives. I mean, you know, I just read a Chernoff's biography of, of Hamilton and Hamilton had,

01:29:57.780 you know, a lot of those issues. Hamilton was probably the most, you know, after Washington,

01:30:03.140 the most important leader. He gave us the constitution. He gave us the, you know, the federal

01:30:10.860 government, our economic system in this country. And yet he had a lot of personal foibles.

01:30:16.840 And so, you know, but he was a great leader. And I think there's been other people who have,

01:30:24.280 I mean, listen, humanity is so badly flawed. We all are, we all need help. And I think the

01:30:31.560 question is about whether that people ask is, you know, whether people are striving to be good people

01:30:38.680 and whether they're striving to be good leaders, you know, who genuinely care about people and want to

01:30:45.000 solve problems. And the, the package that goes into how we assess people is multifarious. It's,

01:30:53.940 there's, you know, there's a lot of different things people have to consider. And, uh, so I would

01:30:59.240 not, I do not, I don't feel like I am, um, in a, uh, you know, you know, offer anybody advice on that

01:31:08.540 issue. I had a friend who never wanted to part with her $10 bills because she really felt that

01:31:15.060 Alexander Hamilton was the best looking person on the money. She said, I can, I can tell he has

01:31:20.180 beautiful blue eyes. It always cracked me up. He was very, very attractive to women. And he was,

01:31:27.400 he was, uh, I mean, you fall in love with them when you read Chernoff's book. I mean,

01:31:31.480 people already know that because, you know, they made the play Hamilton out of that book,

01:31:38.080 but that's the book is really, uh, you know, it's riveting. And I, uh, I had not read it before.

01:31:44.120 I read Chernoff's biography of Washington years ago, which I love, but it's, you know, he writes

01:31:49.100 like poetry and he brings this guy to life and the way his life was so extraordinary.

01:31:56.340 You know, it's, uh, it's, it's literally on our bookshelf right now. My husband read it and I

01:32:01.360 passed by it literally this morning and thought, I should pick that up.

01:32:05.660 Is I, I've become addicted to, uh, to audible. There's a book's on tape.

01:32:10.480 I love audible. Yes.

01:32:11.720 Whenever I'm in the car and it's, I've been able to read probably, I probably read 20 books a year now,

01:32:18.440 um, on audible, which is one after the other. And, um, and it's, it's really been able to increase

01:32:24.880 my reading time. Cause anytime I'm in the car for 10 minutes, I turn it on and I love it.

01:32:30.560 It's so nice. So much better than just scrolling through mindless social media when you're

01:32:34.900 waiting to go into the doctor's office or riding through traffic. I agree with you.

01:32:39.240 Um, okay. On a heavier note, sorry to go back to a heavier note, but I have to ask you,

01:32:44.320 we've been talking a lot about Ukraine and we heard our president say, we, we haven't been facing

01:32:51.120 this kind of Armageddon since 1962 when your dad went to Cuba and helped resolve, uh, the Cuban 0.95

01:33:00.240 missile crisis. And that was the last time that we were facing possible nuclear war. I mean,

01:33:05.000 obviously we had the cold war with the Russians, but according to this president, that was the

01:33:08.320 closest we've come until right now. So what do you make of what's happening right now in Ukraine?

01:33:15.420 Cause I know your dad and your uncle, president Kennedy rejected the advice of, you know,

01:33:22.760 the military industrial complex, as you described to me the last time that really wanted war that

01:33:28.320 we're pushing, trying to push the country into war. And it has very much the feel like it's happening

01:33:33.340 again. And I do wonder whether we have a president in the white house right now, who's got the temerity

01:33:39.520 to push back as JFK and your dad, RFK did. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't, I have, um,

01:33:51.280 you know, I have a lot of thoughts about Ukraine. Um, and my, you know, my inclination is for my,

01:34:00.860 the thing I want with Ukraine is I want to debate, you know, and I've had people on my podcast

01:34:06.320 on both sides. I've had a CIA people who are very strongly in favor of it. And then I've had a

01:34:13.520 number of people who are, um, you know, are really articulate and eloquent about why we shouldn't be

01:34:20.940 there. And it's a complicated issue as all are, you know, and I, I have to say within my own family,

01:34:26.720 I, you know, we are, we argue and debate about this at the dinner table. And, um, but my son Connor

01:34:35.220 has, uh, who's 26 years old, has been in the Ukraine. Uh, he joined the foreign legion. He went

01:34:44.460 over there. He felt like, because he had spent so much time arguing in favor of, you know, he does not

01:34:51.860 like Putin. He does not like bullies. He feels Putin as a gangster and a bully and the invasion,

01:34:59.080 um, is, uh, was just wrong. And he argued very strongly about it. And when we went in, he felt 0.84

01:35:06.800 that he shouldn't be arguing about it unless he was willing to, uh, in, in favor of war, unless he was

01:35:15.680 willing to have skin in the game and take his own risks. Um, and so he went to the Ukrainian embassy

01:35:24.100 and he signed up for the foreign legion and he's been fighting over in the Ukraine for the last

01:35:28.820 couple of months. Oh, wow. He's part of a, uh, he was part of a special forces unit, um, that,

01:35:36.460 and he saw he didn't have any military experience and he kind of talked his way into the unit and

01:35:41.900 he's a big, strong guy, six foot five and, you know, as an athlete and could shoot a gun. Um,

01:35:50.980 but they made him a drone pilot for that, you know, forward unit. And then they, uh, promoted

01:35:56.920 him to a machine gunner, which is a tripod mounted, um, you know, machine gun. And he has been over

01:36:04.460 there, uh, for a couple of months. Um, he's been in firefights, um, mainly nighttime and a lot of

01:36:11.680 artillery fights with the Russians. I, he didn't tell any of us where he was going. I saw the,

01:36:18.600 I saw his, uh, Cheryl and I, he, he went, he was straight with us. And he said, dad, I said,

01:36:25.840 I knew he, he had a job for a law firm. He's third year law student in, in, uh, Georgetown. He had a

01:36:33.240 job for a law firm, a really good law firm, Bob Madeline here. And, um, in Los Angeles. And I was

01:36:40.840 looking forward to him living with me for the summer. And he said, I said, when do you start

01:36:46.360 the law firm? And he said, I'm not going. And, um, I want to talk to you. I don't want you to ask me

01:36:51.700 what I'm doing. I was like, um, and he said, I will explain it to you at some point, but I do not

01:36:58.200 want you to ask me now. And if you can just respect that, it would mean a lot to me. So I did.

01:37:02.920 Um, uh, Cheryl and I were worried about him because we thought maybe he's doing something

01:37:08.280 dangerous. And we, um, we were looking at his credit card bills and the last one we saw was in

01:37:14.480 Poland. And then there was one in the Ukraine and then they just stopped and he didn't tell anybody

01:37:21.000 where he was going, um, or what he was doing. And none of the people in his, his quadrant, I think

01:37:28.080 he had 22 people, men that he was, you know, fighting with, and he became very, very close to

01:37:33.840 them. And he, um, he didn't tell any of them who he was. And, um, so anyway, he, uh, he came back a

01:37:45.500 couple of days ago and I had, you know, I flew out to the East coast and meet him and I heard about

01:37:50.260 what he had done. And I'm very glad I didn't know what he was up to.

01:37:53.560 So you just found out the point is that, uh, you know, there's differences in my family

01:37:59.840 and we talked to each other and I send him articles, you know, where I disagree. And here's

01:38:07.700 the bottom line for me. I think we have a military industrial complex in this country that feeds

01:38:13.920 on continual war that they want continual state of war. I believe that, um, you know, that is very,

01:38:22.500 very difficult. And this is what Madison and Adam said, Adam specifically said, um, America can

01:38:30.580 support democracy abroad, but we will not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. And why is that

01:38:36.720 because an imperialism abroad is inconsistent with democracy at home. It will turn America into a

01:38:44.740 national security state, into an authoritarian state. If we continue to be, you know, our, our biggest

01:38:50.780 industry be the military. Oh, he dies now on January 17th in 1960, 61, just before he left office and

01:39:00.000 handed it over to my uncle, made the best, probably the most important speech in American history,

01:39:06.660 warning America against the rise of the military industrial complex, complex, and talking about

01:39:12.340 how it would subdue and destroy American democracy. And, you know, listen, we go out from war to war to

01:39:21.560 war, and each war is, uh, preceded by a propaganda barrage. We, and, and then, you know, um, and the press all

01:39:31.700 jumps on and here, the same thing happened during the Iraq war, which was the worst foreign policy choice

01:39:38.600 that we ever made until COVID-19 came along in American history. And the New York Times had to

01:39:45.100 apologize for its reporting with Judith Miller, you know, and all of the neocon and CIA people who

01:39:51.320 were tricked us into that war. President George Bush said the worst mistake of his presidency was

01:39:58.160 believing George Senate, the head of the CIA, when he said the weapons of mass destruction is a slam dunk.

01:40:03.820 He said he was tricked by the CIA into that war. Well, if you look what's happened in the Ukraine,

01:40:11.320 you know, there was a CIA sponsored coup in 2014. And the Rand Corporation, now we know, had,

01:40:19.080 you know, published this, um, this, uh, blueprint that says, you know, we should, our strategy, our,

01:40:27.220 our, our, uh, our global strategy should be to provoke, um, Putin into extending, into overextending

01:40:37.040 himself and, um, you know, and then confronting him in one of these old countries, these former Soviet 0.53

01:40:43.200 states. And, um, you know, Putin is a gangster, he's homicidal, he's a thug, he's, uh, one of the worst 0.98

01:40:51.460 people alive today. Um, but, um, you know, we need to, we need to have a real debate about how this 0.97

01:40:59.820 war, about our part in the whole thing and what, you know, the part the CIA played in it and what

01:41:05.520 part, you know, and what part did the extension of NATO when, when Gorbachev came, went to President

01:41:12.780 Bush and said to President Bush, I'm going to dismantle the Soviet Union, but I, um, but I want 1.00

01:41:21.280 your assurance. I want America's promise to me that you will not move NATO into the former Soviet

01:41:28.600 satellite states as we, as they come off. We don't want to be surrounded by a hostile NATO.

01:41:34.620 And, um, and Bush promised him we will not, on behalf of the American people, we will not move NATO

01:41:41.020 one inch to the east. And since then we've moved NATO into, I think, 13 countries that we promised

01:41:48.280 we wouldn't do. We've installed missile systems in each one of them that can be converted literally

01:41:53.060 overnight into nuclear missile systems now. And then you have a government in the Ukraine that

01:41:59.800 has killed between 13,000 and 14,000 ethnic Russians in the eastern part of the, the government that we

01:42:07.620 installed, helped install, and you had the neocon, you know, Victoria Nuland selecting the cabinet in 0.74

01:42:14.300 2014. But we helped install this government. And then, you know, then they go to, they start

01:42:21.440 treating their ethnic Russians like redheaded stepchildren. And, uh, and, and they, and now we're 0.93

01:42:28.980 now in a war, they got into war with them where they're, you know, they're killing 13,000 to 14,000

01:42:34.720 ethnic Russians in the eastern, uh, part of, of Ukraine. Now, in 1962, when the Russians moved

01:42:44.940 nuclear missiles into Cuba, we had on the XCOM committee, we had, uh, I think 11 of the people

01:42:52.280 on that committee who said we should bomb them, even nuclear bomb them. And my uncle Jack said,

01:42:57.780 what if that means nuclear war with the Russians? And they said, well, they won't do it. We got to do 0.99

01:43:03.520 it. We got to invade Cuba. Oh, you know, they were 90 miles from us. And they were, I think,

01:43:09.820 1,400 miles from Washington. But we have, um, we have missile emplacements now that are a few miles

01:43:17.780 from the Russian border. So, um, and if, if, if the Russians moved nuclear missiles into Mexico,

01:43:26.080 or missile systems of any kind, and they killed 14,000 American expatriates and Guadalajara

01:43:34.660 and Baja, we would be in there overnight. So, you know, it's, it, and I'm not, listen,

01:43:42.340 what my uncle said about foreign policy is you always put yourself in the other guy's shoes

01:43:46.640 and you always figure out, right. Give them a way out. And nobody's talking about any way to

01:43:54.320 settle this. You know, they, what they're talking about and what Biden's talking about is regime

01:43:58.640 change. And that's what the CIA wants regime change in Russia. And that's insane. It's going

01:44:04.860 to get us the same place as regime changed in Iraq or a situation just gets worse. So I don't think,

01:44:12.340 you know, I listen, those are my arguments today, Megan, as of now, I'm not, it's not something I'm

01:44:19.200 wedded to. These are really kind of anxieties I have about this war. And, and, you know, the,

01:44:27.440 the reasons this war troubles me, but I listen to other people and, you know, I can, um, and I had a CIA

01:44:37.220 guy on my podcast who made a really strong case, you know, for intervention, my son who knows all

01:44:46.140 the things that I am troubled out about this and he's troubled by them too. He's not naive. He

01:44:52.540 understands, you know, uh, the Ukrainian government is as corrupt as the Russian government and they're

01:44:59.520 intolerant of civil rights. And then you have all these, you know, really, uh, neo-Nazis and the

01:45:05.840 Azov battalion, et cetera. And Connor's aware of that. Connor saw none of those Nazis when he was

01:45:11.220 over there, the people he worked with. And when I hear him talk about it and the feelings that he

01:45:17.520 has about the Ukrainian people, you know, makes you want to cry. And he's very articulate and very 1.00

01:45:24.180 convincing. So I don't, I'm, I'm lucky that I don't have to now make it to, I'm not in a position to

01:45:30.520 make a decision about where you go next. Cause I think it's really complicated. All wars are

01:45:35.260 but I think we ought to be talking about these things and the concerns that I raise people.

01:45:41.960 We need to have an open debate about them because you know, when you're taking $50 million that could

01:45:50.080 be over here playing off a student debt and restoring our middle class, but you know, we're

01:45:55.860 paying for that. And I can tell you, people are paying for it at the pump. Yeah. We're paying six or

01:46:02.720 seven bucks a gallon. And that is the cost of the Ukrainian war that you as an individual are

01:46:08.420 paying every single day. I have to tell you, I would absolutely love to be a fly on the wall at

01:46:13.960 your house on Thanksgiving between the sister on the vaccines and the son on Ukraine. Can I just

01:46:20.940 rewind for one second to, did you just find out about Connor serving in Ukraine when you were there

01:46:27.520 to greet him on his return to the United? Like, can you take, just take me through the moment you

01:46:30.900 found out? He called me, he has a girl, a girlfriend in Brazil and he flew from the Ukraine to see her.

01:46:39.340 I mean, I'm not, I, that's, you know, you were first on the list. No, but as soon as he landed in

01:46:45.540 South Palo, he called me and he said, you know, here's what I was doing. And I said, well, thank

01:46:52.980 God you're home. And I said, I'm proud of you because he believed in it. And I'm very proud that

01:46:58.660 he argued very strongly for it. And most people argue for our chicken hawks, you know, they're not

01:47:05.480 willing, they want somebody else to fight it, but he didn't want to be that person. He wanted to be the

01:47:09.900 hurt. He said, if I argued for it, I need to be able to go there and risk my skin.

01:47:16.080 You know, I feel like this is, he's a Kennedy.

01:47:18.460 But he did that. I'm very, very proud. I'm glad he didn't tell me beforehand because I would have

01:47:23.360 been worried sick. I would have been thinking maybe CIA, you know, maybe he's in the CIA and

01:47:28.000 he can't tell me what he's doing, but I don't think I would have been thinking he's off in Ukraine

01:47:31.660 fighting, but it's taking me back to our first interview where you talked about how you were raised.

01:47:36.460 You had to read the articles in the newspaper. You had to outline them. You had to be ready to

01:47:39.700 defend the points for and against. And I'm sure your kids have that too. So it's part of the

01:47:46.240 Kennedy lore and it's part of the inspiration. Even I've been trying to do that kind of thing

01:47:50.220 with my own kids since our last chat with less success than I would like, but maybe that's a

01:47:57.840 good thing. So I don't want them going, taking up arms in foreign countries.

01:48:00.580 It's harder to do it with the kids today because, you know, I don't know, maybe it's because your

01:48:05.380 parents used to be having to whack you if you didn't do the right thing. You can't really do that

01:48:09.140 anymore or something. I don't know what it is, but the kids today are harder to do.

01:48:13.720 All right. All I can say is that Cheryl is a saint because you're like me. You bring drama 0.98

01:48:18.660 wherever you go. So Doug, my husband's a saint. Cheryl is a saint. You and I are troublemakers and

01:48:24.180 that's not all bad. What a pleasure talking to you again. Thank you so much for coming on.

01:48:28.960 Thank you, Megan. Thanks for having me.

01:48:30.680 Ah, what a fascinating conversation. What a fascinating man. I want to tell you that tomorrow

01:48:36.000 the guys from the Ruthless podcast will be back with us and we booked them on this day for a

01:48:42.420 reason. They are going to be great and they're going to talk about the much anticipated debate

01:48:46.240 happening tonight, Tuesday night between Dr. Oz and John Fetterman. And before we sign off,

01:48:53.260 I want to tell you something exciting. I mentioned it yesterday, but I'm not the only podcaster in my

01:48:57.380 family now. My husband, Doug Brunt, just dropped a new podcast series today. He released the first

01:49:03.920 two. He's got many in the pike called Dedicated with Doug Brunt. If you just search Doug Brunt in 1.00

01:49:09.960 any of your podcasts, you know, in the search bar, it'll come up Dedicated with Doug Brunt.

01:49:14.480 He's a writer and he interviews great writers on how they became writers, what the pitfalls were,

01:49:20.500 what their process is, the behind the scenes secrets about their greatest works. And so you'll hear

01:49:26.100 just a couple of those, including a great, great one with Lee Child if you go over there today. So

01:49:31.760 if you like me, I think you'll like Doug. You may learn a bit, a little bit about

01:49:36.900 why I married him. Check it out. Here's just a little bit of the trailer to reel you in.

01:49:44.860 This is Dedicated with Doug Brunt. This show is going to bring you the world's best writers in a

01:49:50.140 way you never get to hear them. Guard down, ready to talk. I'm a writer who loves to read and I

01:49:55.480 realized there's no place to go to hear directly from the writers I admire most. Movie fans have

01:50:00.400 Inside the Actor's Studio. Music lovers have VH1s behind the music. Book fans? So I created this

01:50:07.360 show. If you love great books and want to spend time with the authors, this show is for you. We'll

01:50:12.440 talk about their work, their process, their personal lives, and in some cases, the box office

01:50:16.880 hit movies that came out of it. It'll be the writers, me, and a fair amount of liquor. We're Dedicated.

01:50:22.880 I hope you'll check it out. See you tomorrow.

01:50:32.720 Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

The Megyn Kelly Show - October 25, 2022

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. on COVID Orthodoxy, Fauci's Legacy, and War in Ukraine ｜ Ep. 419

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript